Regular Session - January 11, 2005

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         1                 NEW YORK STATE SENATE

         2

         3

         4                THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

         5

         6

         7

         8

         9                   ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                   January 11, 2005

        11                      11:36 a.m.

        12

        13

        14                    REGULAR SESSION

        15

        16

        17

        18  SENATOR RAYMOND A. MEIER, Acting President

        19  STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

        20

        21

        22

        23

        24

        25



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         1                 P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

         3       Senate will come to order.

         4                  May I ask everyone present to

         5       please rise and join me in the Pledge of

         6       Allegiance.

         7                  (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

         8       the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        10       invocation will be offered by the Reverend

        11       Robert Hart, pastor of Sunrise Bible Church in

        12       Rotterdam, New York.

        13                  REVEREND HART:    Our Father, Your

        14       word records at a critical time in the Nation

        15       of Israel's history You rose up one of the

        16       smallest of the tribes, the men of Issachar,

        17       and for a very brief moment in time they rise

        18       to the pages because they were men of

        19       understanding who understood the times they

        20       lived in and knew what the nation ought to do.

        21                  Now, when I pray that You to take

        22       the men and the women that are here today,

        23       they would understand the times -- You would

        24       give them an understanding of the times they

        25       live in and they would know what their



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         1       communities and what our state ought to do.

         2                  Give them the wisdom of Solomon,

         3       give them the heart of David, give them the

         4       integrity of Joseph, and give them the passion

         5       of Paul, that they may lead righteously.

         6                  We ask this in the name of my

         7       savior, Jesus.  Amen.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Reading

         9       of the Journal.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

        11       Monday, January 10, the Senate met pursuant to

        12       adjournment.  The Journal of Sunday,

        13       January 9, was read and approved.  On motion,

        14       Senate adjourned.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

        16       objection, the Journal stands approved as

        17       read.

        18                  Presentation of petitions.

        19                  Messages from the Assembly.

        20                  Messages from the Governor.

        21                  Reports of standing committees.

        22                  Reports of select committees.

        23                  Communications and reports from

        24       state officers.

        25                  Motions and resolutions.



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         1                  Senator Bruno.

         2                  SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,

         3       can we adopt the Resolution Calendar, with the

         4       exception of Resolution 45.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    All

         6       those in favor of adopting the Resolution

         7       Calendar, with the exception of Resolution 45,

         8       signify by saying aye.

         9                  (Response of "Aye.")

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Those

        11       opposed, nay.

        12                  (No response.)

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        14       Resolution Calendar, with exception, is

        15       adopted.

        16                  Senator Bruno.

        17                  SENATOR BRUNO:    And, Mr.

        18       President, can we have the title read on

        19       Resolution Number 45 and move for its

        20       immediate adoption.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        22       Secretary will read the title of

        23       Resolution 45.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

        25       Parker, Legislative Resolution Number 45,



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         1       mourning the death of Congresswoman Shirley

         2       Chisholm.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

         4       question is on the resolution.  All those in

         5       favor signify by saying aye.

         6                  (Response of "Aye.")

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Those

         8       opposed, nay.

         9                  (No response.)

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        11       resolution is adopted.

        12                  Senator Bruno.

        13                  SENATOR BRUNO:    And with the

        14       consent of my colleagues in the chamber, can

        15       we open the resolution to the full house.  If

        16       there are any exceptions, please notify the

        17       desk.

        18                  Please recognize Senator Paterson.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        20       Paterson.

        21                  SENATOR PATERSON:    Thank you very

        22       much, Mr. Leader.

        23                  All of us mourn the death of

        24       Shirley Chisholm, who served seven terms in

        25       the United States House of Representatives,



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         1       from 1968 to 1982, and prior to that served in

         2       the Assembly, worked right here in this

         3       Capitol.

         4                  Senator Ada Smith, a distinguished

         5       member of this body, worked for Shirley

         6       Chisholm, was a friend of hers, and actually

         7       attended the memorial for the late

         8       Congresswoman on Saturday, January 8th, in

         9       Florida, where Congresswoman Shirley Chisholm

        10       had gone and lived the last twenty years of

        11       her life.

        12                  She was the first woman in the

        13       Democratic Party to announce and run for

        14       President of the United States, in 1972.

        15                  She staged a famous floor fight at

        16       the Democratic State Convention in 1970 that

        17       led in many ways to the selection of Basil

        18       Paterson as the candidate for Lieutenant

        19       Governor, someone who I know pretty well.  The

        20       problem was that Governor Rockefeller had

        21       $13.5 million, and we didn't.

        22                  So this is a woman who I knew as a

        23       child, going to different events, and met her

        24       on a number of occasions -- certainly an

        25       inspiration to women and an inspiration to all



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         1       legislators, and certainly someone who will be

         2       missed, but whose legend and, as is the case

         3       with Senator Ada Smith, whose teachings will

         4       follow us in our deliberations.

         5                  And we want to thank the Majority

         6       Leader and Senator Kevin Parker for this

         7       resolution.  Also Senator Hassell-Thompson,

         8       who has a resolution on behalf of the Women's

         9       Caucus of the Legislature, and Senator Ada

        10       Smith, who served and worked with

        11       Congresswoman Chisholm.

        12                  And we are very happy that it will

        13       be open for all members to join.

        14                  Thank you.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        16       Volker.

        17                  SENATOR VOLKER:    I just -- very

        18       quickly.

        19                  I knew Shirley Chisholm also.  In

        20       fact, my father served in the Assembly, I

        21       believe, with Shirley and also with a

        22       wonderful gentlemen named Arthur Hardwick.

        23                  And I -- at one time I remember,

        24       when I was younger, asking my father, "Why is

        25       it that Shirley Chisholm is in Western New



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         1       York so much?"  And he said, "Well, because

         2       she's in love with a Western New Yorker."

         3                  And sometime later I had lunch with

         4       Shirley Chisholm and Arthur Hardwick, who

         5       married -- later married Arthur.  Arthur

         6       Hardwick was an Assemblyman and a really

         7       distinguished gentleman -- I know John Marchi

         8       knew him -- from Buffalo, and served in the

         9       Assembly I believe for a few terms.

        10                  But Shirley Chisholm spent a lot of

        11       time in Western New York, not only with Arthur

        12       but actually with us or with Arthur Eve, to

        13       tell you the truth, because they were buddies

        14       also.

        15                  She was a very nice, gentle lady,

        16       but she could be very tough when she had to

        17       be.  And I think her passing is sort of the

        18       end of a different kind of era, because she

        19       was the kind of person you would never expect

        20       would be a powerful politician, but she was.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        22       Andrews.

        23                  SENATOR ANDREWS:    Yes, Mr.

        24       President.

        25                  Congresswoman Shirley Chisholm was



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         1       a constituent in my district, the 12th

         2       Congressional District.  A lot of my

         3       Senatorial district is in part of that

         4       Congressional district.

         5                  And I met Congresswoman Chisholm

         6       when I was a junior in college, where she

         7       spoke before our student body and encouraged

         8       all the students that were in college at that

         9       time to receive an education and use that

        10       education to come back and serve the

        11       community.  And I can honestly say that she

        12       was one of the motivating forces behind my

        13       involvement in public service.

        14                  And I want to congratulate my

        15       colleagues Senator Parker and Senator Bruno

        16       and Senator Paterson for advancing this

        17       resolution.

        18                  And she will be sorely missed in

        19       the district, as she was and will continue to

        20       be a great woman.

        21                  Thank you.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        23       resolution has been opened for sponsorship.

        24       Any member not wishing to be listed, notify

        25       the desk.



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         1                  Senator Bruno.

         2                  SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,

         3       can we at this time return to reports of

         4       standing committees.

         5                  I believe there's a report of the

         6       Finance Committee at the desk.  I ask that it

         7       be read at this time.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Reports

         9       of standing committees.

        10                  The Secretary will read.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Johnson,

        12       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        13       following bills:

        14                  Senate Print Number 2, by Senator

        15       Bruno, an act to amend the State Finance Law;

        16                  And Senate Print Number 3, by

        17       Senator Bruno, an act to amend the State

        18       Finance Law and others.

        19                  Both bills ordered direct to third

        20       reading.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

        22       objection, all bills directly to third

        23       reading.

        24                  Senator Bruno.

        25                  SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President,



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         1       can we at this time take up the

         2       noncontroversial reading of the calendar.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

         4       Secretary will conduct the noncontroversial

         5       reading of the calendar.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         7       1, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print Number 2, an

         8       act to amend the State Finance Law, in

         9       relation to establishing a procedure for the

        10       implementation of a contingency budget.

        11                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

        12       aside.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

        14       bill aside.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        16       2, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print Number 3, an

        17       act to amend the State Finance Law and others,

        18       in relation to budget reform.

        19                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

        20       aside.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

        22       bill aside.

        23                  Senator Bruno, that completes the

        24       noncontroversial reading of the calendar.

        25                  SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President, at



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         1       this time can we take up the controversial

         2       reading of the calendar.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

         4       Secretary will conduct the controversial

         5       reading of the calendar.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         7       1, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print Number 2, an

         8       act to amend the State Finance Law, in

         9       relation to establishing.

        10                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:

        11       Explanation.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        13       Bruno.

        14                  SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President and

        15       colleagues, the legislation that is before us

        16       is a bill that we all in this chamber passed

        17       last year.  And we gave first passage to a

        18       constitutional resolution that would move,

        19       with second passage this year, a referendum to

        20       the people in November to approve budget

        21       reform that would be effective in '06.

        22                  So that's the bill that's on the

        23       floor.  This is the chapter.  And this is the

        24       same bill that we passed, the Assembly passed,

        25       and the Governor vetoed.



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         1                  So we are in a different

         2       legislative session.  We have different

         3       members here and in the other chamber.  And

         4       we're all aware that there was a court

         5       decision that in essence transferred most of

         6       the budget powers to the Executive and

         7       disenfranchised 212 legislators.

         8                  So this Senate 2 and Senate 3 will

         9       help to create balance and equity in the

        10       budget process, and we'll talk about Senate 3

        11       in a little while.

        12                  This is the same bill that we have

        13       taken up, and I believe we had pretty much

        14       unanimous support with all the provisions that

        15       are contained.

        16                  And this does not go into effect

        17       till we give second passage to a resolution,

        18       change the Constitution, and it goes before

        19       the voters in November.  If approved by the

        20       voters, you then would be implementing what's

        21       in this chapter, if the Governor signs it, in

        22       '06.

        23                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        25       Schneiderman.



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         1                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

         2       Mr. President.  On the bill.

         3                  I'm pleased that, as we have in

         4       this house in the past, we are starting off

         5       the year talking about budget reform, although

         6       the conversation this year, I submit, is

         7       extremely different from those we have had

         8       before.  The situation we are faced with after

         9       the decision in Silver v. Pataki and related

        10       cases is not like anything we have faced

        11       before.

        12                  We are starting a new process.  And

        13       I personally intend to support this bill as we

        14       have in the past.  The Governor is -- this

        15       is -- but let's be honest about what's

        16       happening here.  We have a challenge to the

        17       authority of the Legislature that is laid

        18       before us by the Court of Appeals and,

        19       frankly, also by the Governor.  We have to

        20       respond to it.  And I would suggest there are

        21       three things we have to do.

        22                  One is -- you know, I support this

        23       bill.  This would, in some people's views,

        24       transfer too much power to the Legislature.

        25       I'm sure we can work that out as we go



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         1       forward.  There's a message here, though, of

         2       support.  And we have shown our willingness on

         3       this side of the aisle to work in a bipartisan

         4       way when institutionally our branch of

         5       government is facing a challenge.

         6                  I do also think that we have to

         7       deal with the issue of the constitutional

         8       amendment at some point.  But, further, I

         9       would suggest that we also have to listen to

        10       and work better with the Assembly.

        11                  Now, let's be frank about this.

        12       The Assembly was supportive of this bill.  The

        13       Assembly is not going to support the bill that

        14       we're about to consider.  It's a one-house

        15       bill.  There are serious problems they've

        16       raised, some of which I think are realistic,

        17       that it gives the Governor too much power to

        18       bring us in and out of a contingency budget.

        19                  So while I'm going to support this

        20       bill, given the fact that we now have two

        21       reform bills to choose from, I'm not going to

        22       support the bill that follows.

        23                  At the same time, I would urge we

        24       listen to the Assembly on another point.  The

        25       one thing that in the Silver v. Pataki case is



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         1       clear, that even the majority that ruled in

         2       favor of the Executive against the Legislature

         3       stated that we still have power to do

         4       supplemental appropriation bills after the

         5       budget process is done, however much power the

         6       Governor has.  We can do supplemental

         7       appropriation bills.

         8                  That requires us to work with the

         9       Assembly, to be prepared to override.  The

        10       Assembly did a bill that many people feel was

        11       not -- you know, wasn't going anywhere this

        12       year, to restore some very critical cuts in

        13       last year's budget.  And many of my colleagues

        14       here stood with me, with advocates for mental

        15       health programs -- Senator Hassell-Thompson,

        16       Senator Tom Duane, Liz Krueger, and others --

        17       a few weeks ago when we were talking about

        18       this.  We were saying we need to support SUNY

        19       and CUNY, we need to support programs for

        20       runaway youth.

        21                  The Assembly has now made the next

        22       step -- pass legislation, work on a

        23       constitutional amendment, but also do not be

        24       shy about exercising our power for

        25       supplemental appropriations.  Those are the



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         1       three things that are available to us.

         2                  I'm going to support this bill.  I

         3       will not be supporting the following bill

         4       because, even though I supported it a few

         5       weeks ago, now I've got a choice between --

         6       you know, I'm not just down to buying one car;

         7       there are two cars on the lot, and I prefer

         8       this one.

         9                  But I also would urge that as much

        10       as we have to work together in this house, we

        11       are going to have to work with the Assembly as

        12       well to deal with this constitutional issue

        13       facing us and the Governor.  Constitutional

        14       amendment and supplemental bills are also key

        15       here.

        16                  So with that, Mr. President, I will

        17       be supporting this bill and urging my

        18       colleagues that we get more vigorously

        19       involved together as a bipartisan group in

        20       this house, but also with the people in the

        21       Assembly, on how to address what I believe to

        22       be something that has not yet reached the

        23       point of a constitutional crisis but, if

        24       things go down the wrong road in this year's

        25       budget cycle, could well become a



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         1       constitutional crisis.

         2                  Thank you.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

         4       Bruno.

         5                  SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President and

         6       colleagues, just by way of clarity.

         7                  I appreciate your support for the

         8       bill that's on the floor.  I am disappointed

         9       that you talk about not supporting the next

        10       bill.  Because the next bill is what would get

        11       us a budget in place this year.  And the next

        12       bill would implement all of the items in the

        13       supplemental budget that the Assembly did,

        14       which is a one-house supplemental, because

        15       it's unconstitutional.

        16                  If we pass that bill today, that

        17       supplemental, and send it to the Governor and

        18       the budget comes out next Tuesday, the budget

        19       supersedes any action that we can take on last

        20       year's budget.

        21                  But if we do Senate 3, that

        22       mandates the Assembly -- we want to partner,

        23       of course, with the Assembly.  We need them.

        24       But Senate 3, by its chapter, dictates that in

        25       February the Governor will send us a budget.



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         1       In February, a contingency.

         2                  That contingency, and this is

         3       important for everyone to know, goes back to

         4       last year's budget, restoring all the vetoes.

         5       So there's a billion-eight, a billion-seven in

         6       the budget, if this becomes law, Senate 3.

         7                  That's how you get the items that

         8       were vetoed into law, not by doing something

         9       that has been determined is just show because

        10       it can't become law.  But if we pass Senate 3,

        11       it changes the dynamics of getting a budget

        12       done this year.

        13                  And, colleagues, let me share with

        14       you, I don't know how we will ever get a

        15       budget done this year if we don't do this

        16       reform package and create a condition where,

        17       if we can't agree, we get a contingency.

        18                  I am going to share with you, last

        19       year we had the latest budget in the history

        20       of this state, 20 years in a row.  You're

        21       going to have a later budget this year, for

        22       the 21st year, if we don't do a reform package

        23       to put something in place.

        24                  Because while we need and want to

        25       work with our colleagues in the Assembly, we



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         1       don't see it happening.  And I hope and pray

         2       that by our taking action in this house, they

         3       must respond or should respond.

         4                  And if they don't like the language

         5       in Senate 3, let them change it.  Change it.

         6       We'll go to conference committees immediately,

         7       as we did on Senate 2, and we came to an

         8       agreement.

         9                  Now, what's wrong with that?

        10       That's an open process.  It's a public

        11       process.  It's governing.  And it's not

        12       folding our arms.  And it's not just

        13       grandstanding.  It's getting a result.

        14                  So, Mr. President and colleagues, I

        15       urge you to support this Senate 2, which goes

        16       into effect, if it's approved, in '06.  And

        17       we'll talk about Senate 3 when it's on the

        18       floor.

        19                  Thank you.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        21       Krueger.

        22                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        23                  I appreciated listening to the

        24       debate between both of my colleagues.  And we

        25       seem to have merged our discussion of 2 and 3.



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         1                  And Senator Bruno, in his closing

         2       section of his statement, actually made the

         3       point that I wanted to make.  I'll be voting

         4       for Senate 2, as we did last year, because it

         5       grew out of a conference committee.  It was a

         6       successful process by both houses, both

         7       parties.

         8                  And he is right.  We can make

         9       changes and improvements and move forward for

        10       this year if we revisit the successful model,

        11       recreate the conference committee on budget

        12       reform between the two houses, continue the

        13       successful pattern of last year with

        14       bipartisan membership, and perhaps come up

        15       with an agreement across both parties and both

        16       houses for Senate 3, or some variation.  I

        17       would suspect some variation on Senate 3.

        18                  Senate 2, we know, we face the

        19       continuing assumed veto of the Governor.

        20       Senate 3, we right now know, today, that we

        21       still don't have colleagues in the Assembly

        22       who are open to this or prepared to pass this.

        23                  So let's pass 2.  And I urge

        24       Senator Bruno to immediately call for either a

        25       reconvening of or a new budget reform



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         1       conference, both houses, both parties, as was

         2       successful last year.  And let's see within

         3       the next few weeks whether we can get an

         4       agreement between both houses, perhaps a

         5       variation on Senate 3, or perhaps a Senate 4

         6       that will have a same-as bill in the Assembly.

         7                  Because you are right, we need to

         8       move forward.  But my colleague Senator

         9       Schneiderman is also right:  it is a new year,

        10       it is a new time.  The Governor spoke after we

        11       passed Senate 2 last year in both houses.  The

        12       court spoke after we moved that legislation.

        13                  And I think -- and I urge my

        14       colleagues to immediately reconvene a task

        15       force to resolve this issue between both

        16       houses and move forward expeditiously and hope

        17       that this year the Governor won't veto us but,

        18       rather, will join us in this.

        19                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        21       last section.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 39.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        25       roll.



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         1                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         4       is passed.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         6       2, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print Number 3, an

         7       act to amend the State Finance Law and others,

         8       in relation to budget reform.

         9                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:

        10       Explanation.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        12       Bruno, Senator Schneiderman has requested an

        13       explanation.

        14                  SENATOR BRUNO:    And, Mr.

        15       President and colleagues, this is Senate 3.

        16       And this fairly well duplicates the bill that

        17       we just passed that would become effective

        18       upon the Assembly passing it, second passage,

        19       and it getting implemented either by the

        20       Governor's signature or by an override in '06.

        21                  So what we're saying is that we

        22       have to get a reform package in place in '05.

        23       And this bill, you all voted for it

        24       unanimously a few weeks ago, all of you.  And

        25       it's only intended -- we cannot put together a



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         1       conference committee on this unless the

         2       Assembly passes a bill.

         3                  And I hope, if they don't like the

         4       language in this bill, they'll change it and

         5       pass a different bill, and we'll pass it to

         6       the conference committee on Senate 2, on

         7       Senate 3, and through a public process.  All

         8       of us want to open up the process.  And that's

         9       true reform.  And the real reform in this

        10       process of governing is budget reform.

        11                  But why are we talking about '06?

        12       We're living in '05.  And we have to legislate

        13       in '05, we have to govern in '05.  We're

        14       elected to govern in '05.  And we invite the

        15       Assembly to join us -- if not on this bill, on

        16       their version of it.

        17                  So I would urge that you consider

        18       the ramifications of not implementing budget

        19       reform this year.  It's what the people demand

        20       of you when they send you here -- of us, when

        21       they send us here.  And it was one of the key

        22       issues for all of us in this past year.

        23                  So I would urge passage of

        24       Senate 3.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



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         1       Balboni.

         2                  SENATOR BALBONI:    Mr. President,

         3       I am struck, as I read the two proposals, by

         4       the similarity of the provisions.

         5                  And I think if anyone is paying

         6       attention to the process itself to try to see,

         7       you know, where is the Legislature going and

         8       what is going to be the end result for the

         9       people we represent, obviously reform is the

        10       first thing we're looking at.  But also there

        11       are some pieces in here that are very

        12       important that are similar.  And that's really

        13       what we have to focus on -- what is the same,

        14       as opposed to what the differences are.

        15                  I think the independent review, the

        16       budget review office is critical.  I think

        17       this is something that's really going to add

        18       clarity to the process.  But moreover, there's

        19       a reality here, ladies and gentlemen, that I

        20       think we should consider as a body.

        21                  This proposal we are voting for now

        22       is, in my opinion, a superior product because

        23       it recognizes something that the state has

        24       grappled with for, I don't know, 80 years:

        25       How do you govern this state, how do you take



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         1       into account the various needs and concerns

         2       within all of our districts.

         3                  Now, from the legislative process

         4       we all have our bite at the apple and we all

         5       try to urge the programs on behalf of our

         6       constituencies.  But that's not what starts a

         7       budget process.

         8                  And the scheme that we will adopt

         9       in this particular measure I believe is

        10       superior because to come out of the

        11       contingency period, it is the Executive that

        12       proposes the budget once again.  And there is

        13       a practical ramification to that.  Let's face

        14       facts, folks.  The Budget Office of the

        15       Executive is much larger than ours.  They have

        16       the ability to produce the budgets from a

        17       statewide perspective.  And that's something

        18       that we should recognize, frankly.

        19                  And given the fact that the Court

        20       of Appeals seems to be predisposed to focus on

        21       that one element, we should recognize that.

        22       Because you really have to work on this one

        23       notion.  If we're in a contingency budget

        24       period and a contingency budget has cut out

        25       things that all of us think are very



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         1       important, the only way out of there is to

         2       submit a new budget.

         3                  And the bill that we just passed

         4       says it's got to be a legislative budget.

         5       That presumes that we get along with the

         6       Assembly to propose the budget.  And what we

         7       do is we add one more layer of possible

         8       obstruction for the process to go forward.

         9                  I believe this is a superior

        10       solution to this problem.  And, as Senator

        11       Bruno said, it happens this year.  That's the

        12       message we received this last election.

        13       That's what people want to see.  That's what

        14       we need to do now.  Mr. Speaker, here's the

        15       bill.  Let's have a response.  Let's do it

        16       now.

        17                  Thank you.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        19       Schneiderman.

        20                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

        21       Mr. President.  On the bill very briefly.

        22                  We've made these arguments before.

        23       Quite honestly, I think that what we are

        24       dealing with here is a good-faith effort to

        25       move through a process that we've never



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         1       encountered before -- not us personally, no

         2       one's ever encountered this before.

         3                  But I would respectfully suggest

         4       that we have passed a bill, we just passed a

         5       bill unanimously, we should move forward to

         6       try to convene a conference committee with the

         7       Assembly.  We challenge them now to pass a

         8       bill.

         9                  The problem I have with this

        10       bill -- and again, when we came back in the

        11       moment where we needed to make a statement

        12       that we were prepared to move forward and try

        13       to do something, this was the best bill on the

        14       table.  In fact, on that day it was the only

        15       bill on the table.

        16                  I personally think there is a

        17       significant problem with this bill as we move

        18       forward with the Assembly to prepare ourselves

        19       to negotiate with the Governor.  We cannot

        20       tell the people of this state we can't pass

        21       budgets on time and we can't pass good

        22       budgets -- because we can't get along with the

        23       Assembly?  That is not an acceptable argument

        24       to our constituents.

        25                  We have to pass a budget that deals



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         1       with the CFE decision.  We have to pass a

         2       budget that deals with our health care crisis,

         3       with our seniors, with the bankruptcy of the

         4       greatest mass transit system in the world.

         5                  And we can't continue to make the

         6       argument we can't do it because the Assembly

         7       won't work with us.  Our job is to get them to

         8       work with us.  And we have to work with the

         9       other house of the Legislature to deal with

        10       the constitutional challenge posed by the

        11       Governor's approach and the Court of Appeals

        12       ruling.

        13                  As I've tried to point out, there

        14       are ways to deal with it.  We should -- we

        15       just passed a bill; we should move forward to

        16       the conference committee with the Assembly as

        17       soon as they pass something.  We should be

        18       dealing with the possibility of a

        19       constitutional amendment as quickly as

        20       possible.

        21                  And we should focus in on our

        22       absolutely unassailable power to pass

        23       supplemental bills.  The Assembly has sent a

        24       message they are prepared to do that.  I hope

        25       we will do the same.



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         1                  This bill I think loses sight of

         2       the ultimate goal of a good budget funding all

         3       the groups that we've spoken about.  Senator

         4       Hassell-Thompson is nodding, and she speaks on

         5       this whenever she has the opportunity.  The

         6       goal is a good budget, not just a contingency

         7       budget.  And this bill overly focuses on the

         8       contingency budget which frankly, I think, has

         9       put too much in the hands of the Governor.

        10                  If he puts out a contingency budget

        11       we don't like, we're tying our own hands too

        12       much.  The Court of Appeals will do that for

        13       us, ladies and gentlemen.  Let's not tie our

        14       own hands ourselves.  Let's work

        15       intelligently; let's put our heads together.

        16                  Yesterday I think an important

        17       statement was made by the leader of our house

        18       that we're going to try and get our best ideas

        19       together and work on a bipartisan basis.  As

        20       much of a challenge as Rules reform is, this

        21       may be a bigger challenge because of the

        22       constitutional parameters.

        23                  So I'm urging a no vote on this

        24       bill, but agreeing with virtually everything

        25       else our great Majority Leader has said.



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         1       Let's go to a conference committee.  Let's

         2       move forward on a constitutional amendment.

         3       Let's get a budget done this year.  But let's

         4       make sure it's a good budget that addresses

         5       all of the needs of our citizens and not make

         6       excuses that we can't work with the Governor,

         7       we can't work with the Assembly.  We've got to

         8       do better than that.

         9                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        11       Volker.

        12                  SENATOR VOLKER:    Mr. President,

        13       you know, the interesting thing about it is

        14       here that I guess I've been here in Albany

        15       about as long as anybody but John.  Obviously,

        16       John has been here longer than practically

        17       anybody else.  I'm talking about in both

        18       houses.

        19                  We really know what happened last

        20       year, and it wasn't this house.  The problem

        21       here is -- and I think we all want to work

        22       with the Assembly.  And by the way, I think

        23       the Assembly wants to work with us.  There's

        24       one small problem.

        25                  What happened last year was not a



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         1       dysfunctional Legislature, except that when 63

         2       people from the Majority of the Assembly made

         3       a conscious decision not to do the budget

         4       until the master was appointed -- and we know

         5       that happened.

         6                  I mean, the problem is Sheldon

         7       didn't make that decision.  It's my belief

         8       that the people in New York City that are part

         9       of the Assembly made that decision.  And there

        10       was a reason for it.  Politically, New York

        11       City has tremendous needs right now.  It's

        12       not -- the school aid stuff -- the problem

        13       with school aid, there's no evidence that more

        14       school aid is necessarily going to help that

        15       district.  What it really needs is reform.

        16       But that's beside the point.

        17                  The problem is we have a Medicaid

        18       problem, we have a school aid problem upstate.

        19       The business community has been fooled into

        20       thinking it's Medicaid that's the big problem.

        21       It's school aid that could raise taxes

        22       50 percent in upstate New York, outside of the

        23       City.

        24                  If we ever allow a judge to order

        25       us -- they can order all they want.  They



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         1       can't make us.  If we ever allow a judge to

         2       order us to transfer $3 billion to New York

         3       City and implement it, we in upstate New York

         4       are headed for a tremendous disaster.  By the

         5       way, no judge can really do that.  You think

         6       there's going to be a constitutional challenge

         7       if they try to do that?  You're right.

         8                  Frank Padavan and I were here, and

         9       I just want to say this once, when a judge

        10       ordered us to spend a tremendous amount of

        11       money on Willowbrook.  They were threatening

        12       to take him to jail, which was kind of a joke.

        13       We were ready to go to jail.  Hugh Carey caved

        14       in, in what has to be one of the most

        15       ridiculous -- he threw hundreds of millions of

        16       dollars at Willowbrook.

        17                  And why was it silly?  What they

        18       did was this -- I won't characterize the

        19       judge, who was a little over the hill.

        20       Geraldo Rivera called this whole thing to

        21       happen.  That's how long we've been here.

        22       They put hundreds of millions of dollars into

        23       Willowbrook because a judge said, Take care of

        24       those kids at Willowbrook.  We said, We're

        25       going to put them in a nice facility.  No, you



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         1       can't move them.

         2                  We put hundreds of millions of

         3       dollars -- now, Hugh Carey said, I'll put the

         4       money in the budget.  The Legislature won't do

         5       it.  So he did.

         6                  We rebuilt Willowbrook, it took

         7       about two years, tore it down and put the kids

         8       out of it and sent them someplace else.  Well,

         9       that was a smart thing to do.  That was really

        10       brilliant.

        11                  It shows you sometimes the

        12       craziness that can happen when the politics

        13       gets out of hand.  And we all who were around

        14       at the time just looked at it and shook our

        15       heads.  And the media, The New York Times

        16       thought it was wonderful.  They loved it.  It

        17       was a disaster.  We cannot allow another

        18       disaster to happen here.

        19                  Last year was the greatest

        20       upstate/downstate battle I've seen since I've

        21       been here.  And funny, the business community

        22       and everybody thought it wasn't.  And it

        23       wasn't this house.  But, Eric, I want to tell

        24       you something.  If 35 members of this Majority

        25       decide we're not going to pass a budget until



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         1       August 1st, how are you going to stop them?

         2                  But worse than that, when a

         3       regional issue like school aid, which is

         4       politically charged, when 63 people from the

         5       New York City delegation decide to do it, how

         6       are you going to stop them in a democracy?

         7       The only way you stop them is with the reform

         8       that we are suggesting here.

         9                  Because this creates the

        10       contingency problem.  We have to do this

        11       because we're headed for another classic

        12       confrontation later on this year over school

        13       aid, Medicaid, $60 billion in bonds for the

        14       Lower Manhattan Reconstruction Corporation --

        15       which none of us talk about, which is the

        16       World Trade Center -- the Jets, all that stuff

        17       that the city needs.

        18                  We have needs too in upstate

        19       New York.  And speaking from my position, Joe

        20       Bruno, I think, represents the whole state.

        21       And we all represent the whole state.  We

        22       can't just take care of New York City and

        23       forget everybody else.

        24                  So what this bill does, by the way,

        25       is give us time to get ourself back on track.



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         1       Because I tell you, I think the Assembly is

         2       with us in wanting to get us back on track.

         3       But it's difficult, because politics is

         4       different.  Our people care, in upstate

         5       New York, about budgets.  I know the people in

         6       downstate don't really care that much as long

         7       as they get their money.  But it's different

         8       upstate.

         9                  That's our problem.  That's why

        10       Senator Bruno is so right with this bill.  And

        11       that's why, by the way, I predict it will

        12       pass -- maybe not exactly the way it is, but

        13       it will become law.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        15       Robach.

        16                  SENATOR ROBACH:    Yes, on the

        17       bill.

        18                  I guess I rise to enthusiastically

        19       support this for two reasons.  One is, and

        20       foremost, call me a crazy politician, out of

        21       response to my constituency, who clearly has

        22       said to us repeatedly we need to have a

        23       different process, we need to have a better

        24       process.

        25                  And, secondly, what these bills are



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         1       about, I believe, while I like components of

         2       all of them, as Senator Bruno has pointed out,

         3       as Eric Schneiderman has even pointed out,

         4       this is about engaging the Assembly.

         5                  I agree with the assessment but not

         6       the conclusion.  Having come from that house

         7       and that majority, they have historically

         8       taken a very cavalier approach, at best, at

         9       wanting to get a budget done on time.

        10                  What we have done today, by moving

        11       these bills, in addition to responsiveness to

        12       the public, is given choices, options to get

        13       them to do anything.

        14                  And you're right, we do have to

        15       work together.  We may have to go to a

        16       conference committee if they don't embrace

        17       this one.  I personally would like them to do

        18       the reform that will get that in place by this

        19       year.  That would be optimal.  But if they

        20       don't, at least there's choices.  At least we

        21       can begin the process.

        22                  And I think one thing we would all

        23       agree on, this is important to all our

        24       constituencies.  Whether it's a question of

        25       degrees, whether you're from downstate,



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         1       upstate, east or west, we ought to have a

         2       process, we ought to minimally have a

         3       conference committee to do this again and get

         4       this done right, not only in the short term

         5       but on the long term.  The public really has

         6       demanded it, rightfully so.

         7                  I am going to do my part and

         8       support this.  And maybe we should all do

         9       this:  rather than talk about engagement, do

        10       what we can in a bipartisan way to also get

        11       the other house to comply.  At the end of the

        12       day, when we can only take care of our

        13       individual house, what the public will judge

        14       us by is what we have accomplished.  And there

        15       is no question we need the other house to do

        16       that.

        17                  But this is definitely options,

        18       steps in the right direction, and

        19       responsiveness, positive action for what the

        20       public wants.  This is good for our house.

        21       Hopefully the Assembly will embrace it as

        22       well.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        24       Saland.

        25                  SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you, Mr.



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         1       President.  On the bill.

         2                  Let me, if I can, perhaps just

         3       state what I think are some basic maxims.  I

         4       believe that before you can negotiate, you've

         5       got to get folks to the table.

         6                  And perhaps our memories are a

         7       little dull, or perhaps we've lost sight of

         8       the fact that for nine years prior to last

         9       year this house passed, as its number-one

        10       bill, budget reform, Senate 1 in each and

        11       every year.  And finally, in the 10th year,

        12       when the crescendo from our respective

        13       districts became loud and alarming enough, we

        14       managed to get our friends over in the other

        15       house to get to the table.

        16                  And, yes, we did come up with,

        17       after a long and arduous process, a bill,

        18       through a conference committee, a bill that

        19       the Governor vetoed.

        20                  When I hear Senator Schneiderman

        21       talk about the fact that we have resort to

        22       supplemental appropriations, we've had resort

        23       to supplemental appropriations for the past

        24       20 years.

        25                  I needn't remind Senator



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         1       Schneiderman, because I'm sure he read the

         2       same case that I read, that -- what the Court

         3       of Appeals said when they in effect amplified

         4       the already strong powers of this Governor, or

         5       any Executive.

         6                  What they said was the Governor is

         7       not omnipotent.  I don't have the text in

         8       front of me, but that's the word that they

         9       used.  And they went on to say the Legislature

        10       has the ability to resort to gridlock.

        11                  So what the Court of Appeals has

        12       basically done is they've taken an ugly,

        13       arduous process and they've made it that much

        14       more difficult.

        15                  I think, as Senator Bruno has said,

        16       this is going to be a difficult year in which

        17       to get a budget, and perhaps it will be even

        18       later.  I think this ensures the session from

        19       hell.  The Court of Appeals has basically

        20       ensured that.  No way, no how are we going to

        21       find things any easier this year than we did

        22       last year.

        23                  So for me, we can talk about

        24       procedural reform.  That's not going to get us

        25       budget reform, it's not going to get us



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         1       Medicaid reform, it's not going to get us a

         2       host of other reforms that are at the heart of

         3       what has prevented us from coming to an

         4       agreement.  You've got to get to the table in

         5       order to be bipartisan.  And if you won't come

         6       to the table, there's no possibility of being

         7       bipartisan.

         8                  So I commend Senator Bruno for

         9       continuing the fight to make this our

        10       number-one priority and for continuing the

        11       efforts to get the Assembly to the table.

        12       Come to the table, talk to us, let's see if we

        13       can work something out.  Nine years of silence

        14       doesn't work.  The tenth year was close, but

        15       close isn't good enough in this business.

        16       Let's try it in the 11th year to get together.

        17                  Thank you.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        19       last section.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 32.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        23       roll.

        24                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



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         1       Nozzolio, to explain his vote.

         2                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you, Mr.

         3       President.

         4                  I rise to applaud Senator Bruno for

         5       taking this very bold step.  Just let the word

         6       go forth that this house, this Senate is

         7       serious about budget reform.  This is the very

         8       first bill our house is enacting this

         9       legislative session, to topple the

        10       dysfunction, when there's no greater symbol of

        11       dysfunction in our state capital than the

        12       lateness of the state budget process.

        13                  This measure goes a long way to

        14       stop that dysfunction.  That I applaud our

        15       conference for taking this action.  And that,

        16       frankly, it's time long overdue that budget

        17       reform is established in the State of

        18       New York.

        19                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        21       Nozzolio will be recorded in the affirmative.

        22                  Senator Winner, to explain his

        23       vote.

        24                  SENATOR WINNER:    This is my first

        25       vote in the State Senate, and I'm very proud



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         1       to cast a vote in favor of this measure.  It's

         2       been a long time coming.

         3                  I've served in the Assembly for a

         4       lot of years, and in the last 20 when the

         5       budget has been late.  And I can tell you that

         6       there's been no more dysfunctional operation

         7       in my experience than that watching the budget

         8       deadlock that we have watched year after year.

         9                  So I am proud to cast my vote in

        10       the affirmative on this measure.  I'm proud to

        11       be a member of this body, seeing budget reform

        12       take its forefront.  And I'm hopeful that

        13       we'll have accommodation with the Assembly.

        14                  However, I'm not so sure that it

        15       will be easy or forthcoming in the near

        16       future.  After all, why aren't they doing this

        17       as the first order of business?  There is no

        18       more important business for the State of

        19       New York in restoring confidence in this

        20       government and restoring confidence in the

        21       Legislature than having a budget done on time.

        22                  Thank you.  I vote in the

        23       affirmative.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        25       Winner will be recorded in the affirmative.



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         1                  Senator Schneiderman, to explain

         2       his vote.

         3                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Yes, Mr.

         4       President.

         5                  The Senators who have spoken here

         6       have made a lot of points.  I would urge

         7       everyone, though, we have to move beyond the

         8       rhetoric that we're taking action to make the

         9       budget process better.

        10                  I realize this is difficult.  I

        11       realize this may be a difficult session.  But

        12       the people who we represent have more

        13       difficulties than we do with the budgets that

        14       we're producing.  We have to produce budgets

        15       that deal with the needs of the people.

        16                  And with all due respect for my

        17       great colleague Senator Volker, when people

        18       from New York City wake up to the fact -- as

        19       they have with the report released last summer

        20       by the Mayor -- that we send more than

        21       $10 billion a year in taxes to the rest of the

        22       state than we get back in goods and services,

        23       maybe they are entitled to say, You know what,

        24       we do need some money for our schools, we do

        25       need some money for our hospitals, we do need



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         1       some money for our buses and subways.

         2                  The way we're going to get that, I

         3       think, is by arguing this out on the merits,

         4       by opening up the process.  We favor

         5       conference committees.  The Assembly will pass

         6       a bill; let's go to a conference committee,

         7       let's have public hearings.

         8                  It should not be beyond us to say

         9       we can accomplish this, we can compromise, we

        10       can negotiate, we can stay here as long as it

        11       takes.  That's not an excuse.  I'm sorry if

        12       this is too hard.  We're here to represent

        13       people in difficult circumstances.

        14                  Let's stop doing blame today, and

        15       let's start doing responsibility.  It's easy

        16       to blame.  Let's get to work and pass some

        17       budgets that actually help the people we

        18       represent.

        19                  Thank you.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        21       Schneiderman will be recorded in the negative.

        22                  Announce the results.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

        24       the negative on Calendar Number 2 are Senators

        25       Andrews, Connor, Dilan, Duane,



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         1       Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, Onorato,

         2       Oppenheimer, Parker, Paterson, Savino,

         3       Schneiderman, A. Smith, and Stavisky.  Also

         4       Senator Montgomery.  Ayes, 45.  Nays, 15.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         6       is passed.

         7                  On Calendar Number 2, Senator

         8       Serrano will also be recorded in the negative.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 44.  Nays,

        10       16.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        12       is passed.

        13                  Senator Bruno.

        14                  SENATOR BRUNO:    Mr. President, is

        15       there any other business at the desk?

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    No,

        17       there's no other business, Senator.

        18                  SENATOR BRUNO:    Then there being

        19       no further business to come before the Senate,

        20       I would move that we stand adjourned until

        21       Tuesday, January 18th, at 3:00 p.m.,

        22       intervening days to be legislative days.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    On

        24       motion, the Senate stands adjourned until

        25       Tuesday, January 18th, at 3:00 p.m.



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         1       Intervening days will be legislative days.

         2                  (Whereupon, at 12:22 p.m., the

         3       Senate adjourned.)

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