Regular Session - February 1, 2005
365
1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
2
3
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
5
6
7
8
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 February 1, 2005
11 3:14 p.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
15
16
17
18 LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President
19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
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21
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25
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
3 please come to order.
4 I ask everyone present to please
5 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of
6 Allegiance.
7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited
8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
9 THE PRESIDENT: In the absence of
10 clergy, may we bow our heads in a moment of
11 silence, please.
12 (Whereupon, the assemblage
13 respected a moment of silence.)
14 THE PRESIDENT: Reading of the
15 Journal.
16 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
17 Monday, January 31, the Senate met pursuant to
18 adjournment. The Journal of Friday,
19 January 28, was read and approved. On motion,
20 Senate adjourned.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Without
22 objection, the Journal stands approved as
23 read.
24 Presentation of petitions.
25 Messages from the Assembly.
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1 Messages from the Governor.
2 Reports of standing committees.
3 Reports of select committees.
4 The Secretary will read the report
5 of the standing committees.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
7 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
8 following bills:
9 Senate Print 1206, by Senator Rath,
10 an act to create a joint bipartisan task
11 force;
12 And Senate Print 1264, by the
13 Senate Committee on Rules, an act to amend the
14 Tax Law.
15 All bills ordered direct to third
16 reading.
17 THE PRESIDENT: Both bills are
18 ordered direct to third reading.
19 Senator Volker.
20 SENATOR VOLKER: Move to accept
21 the Rules report.
22 THE PRESIDENT: All in favor of
23 accepting the Rules report please signify by
24 saying aye.
25 (Response of "Aye.")
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1 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
2 (No response.)
3 THE PRESIDENT: The report is
4 accepted.
5 Reports of select committees.
6 Communications and reports from
7 state officers.
8 Motions and resolutions.
9 Senator Volker.
10 SENATOR VOLKER: Madam President,
11 can we have the noncontroversial reading of
12 the calendar, please.
13 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
14 will read.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 5, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 215A, an
17 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to
18 providing.
19 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it
20 aside.
21 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
22 aside.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 8, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 1206, an act
25 to create a joint bipartisan task force to
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1 study the legislative process.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
3 section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 50.
9 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
10 passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
12 Calendar Number 9, Senator Bruno, from the
13 Committee on Rules, moves to discharge
14 Assembly Bill Number 2489A and substitute it
15 for the identical Senate Bill Number 1264,
16 Third Reading Calendar 9.
17 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution
18 ordered.
19 The Secretary will read.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 9, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
22 Assembly Print Number 2489A, an act to amend
23 the Tax Law.
24 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it
25 aside.
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1 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
2 aside.
3 Senator Volker, that completes the
4 noncontroversial reading of the calendar.
5 SENATOR VOLKER: Madam President,
6 before we call the controversial calendar,
7 would you please instruct the Sergeant-at-Arms
8 to ring the bells, please.
9 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
10 will ring the bells, and the Sergeant-at-Arms
11 will ask the members to take their seats.
12 Senator Skelos.
13 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could go
14 to the controversial calendar at this time.
15 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
16 will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 5, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 215A, an
19 act to amend the Tax Law.
20 SENATOR VOLKER: Madam President.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Volker.
22 SENATOR VOLKER: This is -- my
23 colleague Senator Padavan asked me whether
24 we're stuttering in Erie County, and we are,
25 sort of.
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1 This is -- the bill we passed last
2 Tuesday, I think, whenever it was, was a
3 1 percent tax that has been a temporary tax in
4 Erie County since I believe something in the
5 '80s, like 1983 or '84, and would raise the
6 tax in Erie County to 8 percent.
7 And incidentally, the county
8 legislature that actually enacts the tax
9 passed it today. However, they finally today
10 met at noon, got the 10 votes, the two-thirds
11 vote for the home-rule message on the other 1
12 percent, which is the second 1 percent that
13 the county executive is demanding to raise to
14 9 and -- will raise our taxes to 9 1/4
15 percent.
16 Now, they still have to pass it,
17 but this is enabling legislation. The problem
18 is that the reason we need to do this is that
19 the county executive, as authorized, shuts
20 down the emergency services or the parks and
21 all sorts of other things. So it's important
22 that we get this done as soon as possible.
23 The Assembly is -- I don't think
24 they've done it yet. I think we're waiting
25 for the Assembly. But they will pass it also.
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1 It's unfortunate -- Erie County, we have
2 checked and found out, has the lowest real
3 property taxes of any major county in the
4 State of New York. But it has been six years
5 since taxes were lowered, and it has not been
6 risen since then.
7 But the county legislature and the
8 county executive have agreed to raise the
9 sales tax effectively to 9 1/4 percent. So
10 everybody understands, we in this Legislature
11 hope that as of January 1, 2006, we hope to
12 have the 1/4 percent lapse, because we do
13 not -- as I understand it, we hope we are not
14 going to have to reenact it, so it will lapse.
15 But the situation here -- and
16 Senator Meier has another bill, unfortunately.
17 And neither one of us want to do what we're
18 going to do. Because we do not enact this
19 tax. I want everybody to understand, these
20 are designators. We have been asked by the
21 county legislature, as Senator Meier would be
22 the same way, to provide authorization.
23 And that's exactly what we're doing
24 here. It is not our doing, even though some
25 county executives would say it is. And we
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1 realize the Medicaid is a problem. But this
2 is the way they've decided to resolve it.
3 So that's what this bill does.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Does any other
5 member wish to be heard?
6 Then the debate is closed.
7 There is a local fiscal impact note
8 at the desk.
9 Read the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
15 will ring the bill. The Sergeant-at-Arms will
16 assure that all members are in the chamber.
17 Senator Maziarz, to explain your
18 vote.
19 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you,
20 Madam President, to explain my vote.
21 I just want to indicate that I'm
22 voting in the negative on this legislation,
23 because although I supported maintaining the
24 sales tax in Erie County at 8 percent, this
25 increase to 9 1/4, I should say, to 9 1/4
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1 percent, is really being done because the
2 other half of the New York State Legislature
3 refuses to reform the Medicaid system.
4 They refuse to follow the lead of
5 Senator Rath and Senator Meier and this body
6 in the Medicaid -- the bipartisan Medicaid
7 reform proposal that we passed last year.
8 That has forced Erie County and many other
9 counties across the state to look at
10 increasing their sales tax.
11 The problem with this legislation
12 is that this 9 percent, this additional 1
13 percent is going to be shared with the City of
14 Buffalo and with suburban towns. Some of
15 those towns' budgets have already been
16 adopted, tax rates have already been set.
17 Those areas are going to see a windfall, in
18 once instance of a million dollars, from this
19 extra percent of sales tax.
20 This sales tax, if it was
21 implemented, should have all gone to the
22 County of Erie to offset the local share of
23 Medicaid costs that the Assembly insists on
24 imposing on counties throughout the state.
25 So I'm voting against this because
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1 it's shared with the City of Buffalo and the
2 other municipalities in Erie. Thank you.
3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Maziarz,
4 you will be so recorded as voting in the
5 negative.
6 The Secretary will announce the
7 results.
8 Senator Ada Smith.
9 SENATOR ADA SMITH: Thank you,
10 Madam President.
11 THE PRESIDENT: To explain your
12 vote?
13 SENATOR ADA SMITH: To explain my
14 vote.
15 I am morally opposed to increasing
16 a regressive sales tax. However, when you
17 call me a "tax-and-spend Democrat," I want you
18 to remember that most of us are opposed to
19 these tax cuts [sic]. And I'm voting for it
20 because my Republican colleague has requested
21 that we do so for the benefit of his county.
22 And I will do so because he is a colleague and
23 we must help one another.
24 I vote in the affirmative.
25 THE PRESIDENT: You will be so
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1 recorded, Senator Smith.
2 The Secretary will announce the
3 results.
4 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
5 the negative on Calendar Number 5 are Senators
6 Brown, Klein, Maziarz, Morahan, Onorato,
7 Parker, Sabini, Stachowski and Valesky.
8 Those Senators absent from voting
9 on Calendar Number 5 are Senators Connor and
10 Montgomery.
11 Ayes, 45. Nays, 9.
12 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
13 passed.
14 The Secretary will continue to
15 read.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 9, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
18 substituted earlier today, Assembly Print
19 Number 2489A, an act to amend the Tax Law.
20 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:
21 Explanation.
22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Meier, an
23 explanation has been requested.
24 SENATOR MEIER: Thank you, Madam
25 President.
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1 This is a home rule request from
2 the County of Oneida to increase the local
3 portion of the sales tax in that county by
4 1 1/2 cents. Together with the existing sales
5 tax, that would bring the sales tax in the
6 County of Oneida to 9 3/4 cents.
7 This is a revenue which has been
8 budgeted by the County of Oneida within their
9 enacted budget. They are foreclosed at this
10 point from seeking any other revenue source.
11 The time provided for by law for them to
12 establish and collect a real property tax levy
13 has expired.
14 As Senator Volker explained before,
15 this is a home rule request. This is the
16 legislative body of the County of Oneida
17 deciding this is the way by which they are
18 requesting to balance their budget, which
19 includes the pressures caused by Medicaid.
20 And to tell you the truth, Madam
21 President, were I county executive still, I
22 probably would have done it a different way.
23 But just as my county executive doesn't get
24 confused and think he's the state senator, I
25 understand I'm no longer the county executive.
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1 And so we introduce this bill.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Does any other
3 member wish to be heard?
4 Senator Valesky.
5 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you,
6 Madam President. On the bill.
7 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed
8 on the bill, Senator.
9 SENATOR VALESKY: We are here
10 today voting on this measure for one simple
11 reason, and that reason is the fact that our
12 state government has failed to address the
13 Medicaid funding crisis. I think we all know
14 and understand that.
15 That failure means that local
16 leaders -- those in Oneida County, those in
17 Erie County and undoubtedly in other counties
18 across the state -- are forced to pass this
19 burden on to taxpayers; in this case, in the
20 form of a sales tax increase.
21 We need to say enough is enough.
22 And I will be opposing this measure today. I
23 certainly feel for the county executive in
24 Oneida County, for the county board of
25 legislators in Oneida County who are trying to
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1 make ends meet, who are forced into making
2 extremely difficult decisions because this
3 state government has failed to reform the
4 Medicaid crisis. But I don't believe that
5 this is the right way to fix the problem.
6 By increasing the sales tax to
7 9.75 percent, making it the highest in the
8 Northeast -- not just in the state of
9 New York, but in the Northeast -- this will
10 place Oneida County at a significant
11 disadvantage in regard to surrounding
12 counties.
13 Stores, certainly store owners on
14 county lines will be suffering lost income,
15 lost revenue as patrons seek taxable products
16 by going across county lines and purchasing
17 them in other counties.
18 Companies that consider expanding
19 in Oneida County or even coming into the
20 region in the first place will no doubt look
21 at a 9.75 percent combined sales tax as a
22 reason not to locate in Oneida County or not
23 to expand and create new jobs. And in fact,
24 research on the topic is fairly clear: high
25 sales taxes have a measurable and negative
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1 effect on job creation and on investment.
2 And the short-term effect, as I'm
3 sure we all know, includes a decrease in
4 private-sector job growth and includes an
5 increase in the cost of living, of course, and
6 a drop in per-capita personal income.
7 We can do better, and we must do
8 better. We must stop passing the bill and the
9 burden on to counties across this state who in
10 turn are forced in many cases to pass that
11 burden on to sales taxpayers and property
12 taxpayers.
13 Medicaid costs have been an issue
14 now, as you all know, for years. In fact, in
15 1995, ten years ago, Governor Pataki, in his
16 State of the State address then, called for
17 reform of the Medicaid system. We have had no
18 significant reform of Medicaid now in
19 10 years.
20 We must solve this crisis. We must
21 solve it now, this year. Senator Meier, of
22 course, has chaired a task force on Medicaid
23 reform. Senator Paterson has issued a report
24 on how to reform Medicaid. The Assembly
25 Democrats have their plan. The Governor now
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1 has his plan. The fact of the matter is there
2 are all these plans out there, and nothing
3 ever gets done. We must reform Medicaid this
4 year.
5 As a result, I will be voting no on
6 this particular piece of legislation.
7 Counties like Oneida and others across the
8 state can no longer be forced into making
9 these kinds of decisions.
10 Thank you, Madam President.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Does any other
12 member wish to be heard?
13 Senator Meier.
14 SENATOR MEIER: Madam President,
15 will Senator Valesky yield for a question?
16 SENATOR VALESKY: I do.
17 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed,
18 Senator Meier.
19 SENATOR MEIER: Senator, you're
20 aware, aren't you, that the County of Oneida
21 has budgeted some $26 million in its adopted
22 budget from this revenue source?
23 SENATOR VALESKY: Yes, I am.
24 SENATOR MEIER: Well, are you
25 prepared to explain to the county executive
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1 how he is to fund his budget, fund the
2 services provided for within it to keep his
3 credit rating from being cratered by Moody's
4 and Standard & Poor's if we were to vote this
5 down today?
6 SENATOR VALESKY: Well, what I am
7 prepared to do and in fact have already done
8 in explaining my vote to the county executive
9 in Oneida County is the fact that what we
10 should be voting on now is real reform of the
11 Medicaid system so that the county executive
12 in Oneida County and others across the state
13 will not be forced into this situation.
14 SENATOR MEIER: Well, Senator,
15 that's true in an ideal sense. But in the
16 meantime, isn't it true that even if we were
17 to have the ultimate Medicaid bill on the
18 floor today, that that still doesn't provide
19 them adequate revenue in time to balance the
20 budget that they have enacted?
21 SENATOR VALESKY: This
22 Legislature last year and in years past should
23 have approved real Medicaid reform so that the
24 County of Oneida would not be in this
25 situation today.
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1 SENATOR MEIER: Thank you,
2 Senator.
3 Madam President, on the bill.
4 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed
5 on the bill, Senator.
6 SENATOR MEIER: Thank you, Madam
7 President.
8 You know, I know a little something
9 about Medicaid. I was a county executive for
10 six years. And for six years, I complained
11 bitterly about Medicaid every year. And
12 indeed, when I had the chance, it was one of
13 the reasons why I ran for the Senate, because
14 I thought that I could maybe have some more
15 influence here on that.
16 And, you know, I was very fortunate
17 that I think Senator Bruno also shared that
18 concern, as did the members of this
19 conference. And so we formed a Medicaid
20 reform task force and we spent time around
21 this state talking to the stakeholders, to the
22 local governments, to the health care
23 providers, to the people who rely on the
24 Medicaid system. And we came together, along
25 with some participation from Senator
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1 Paterson -- and the Minority did issue a
2 Minority report. But we came together with
3 some 40 some recommendations.
4 And it's disingenuous to say that
5 it's the Legislature that refuses to reform
6 Medicaid. We passed a bill last year in this
7 house that contains substantial Medicaid
8 reform. In this house. It was introduced in
9 this house. It passed with the vote and
10 support of every member on this side of the
11 aisle and the vote of every member on that
12 side of the aisle but three.
13 Now, that's a bipartisan consensus,
14 in my book. I think that's pretty good when
15 you can get people in this chamber, who
16 represent diverse parts of the state,
17 different kinds of communities, two political
18 parties, vastly different political points of
19 view -- you get every Republican and everybody
20 Democrat but three.
21 And what happened in the other
22 house? Not just nothing, less than nothing.
23 Didn't vote on a bill, didn't introduce a
24 bill, wouldn't entertain our bill.
25 And so now we tell the County of
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1 Oneida: Oh, sorry, your budget's got to go
2 $26 million into imbalance. You know
3 something? I got to tell you, this is a home
4 rule bill. They chose to do it this way.
5 And, yes, we need to fix Medicaid. And I
6 intend to go back at it and back at it and
7 back at it again until somebody listens,
8 particularly in the other body.
9 But I have to tell you this.
10 Here's a reform for you. You want to reform
11 politics in Albany? A vote against this bill
12 is cynical and political and it tells the
13 County of Oneida, We're going to play politics
14 with your request.
15 Boy, if we could drain that stuff
16 out of the business we're supposed to do, that
17 would be a reform for you.
18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator
19 Schneiderman.
20 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
21 Madam President. On the bill.
22 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed
23 on the bill.
24 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I think
25 that the difficulty a lot of people outside of
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1 this building have understanding what we do
2 here is that there appears to be something of
3 a disconnect between our rhetoric about what
4 we're doing and what a great job we're doing
5 and how hard we're working and how much reform
6 we're engaged in and the results for people
7 who live in places like Oneida County or in my
8 district in the City of New York.
9 And I don't think there's anyone
10 here who views the legislators and the county
11 executive and the people in Oneida County with
12 anything other than complete sympathy. But
13 essentially they're here today asking to have
14 the highest sales tax in the state,
15 9.75 percent, because they have a gun to their
16 head.
17 And I'm sorry if I get a little
18 tired of hearing how great we are in the
19 Senate and it's all the fault of the other
20 house. We're here to pass laws. We're here
21 to actually move things forward. And if we
22 can't get it done, get with the other house,
23 maybe we can't get the job done and other
24 people should come here.
25 But our job is not to pass
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1 one-house bills. Our job is not to trade
2 one-house bills with the other house. They
3 have every week their press conferences where
4 they laud their great reforms that they're
5 enacting, we have our press conferences, and
6 they pass like ships in the night. I'm sorry,
7 the public is tired of that.
8 Why does Oneida County need to go
9 to a 9 3/4 percent sales tax? I would
10 respectfully submit it's a lot more than
11 Medicaid. When I got here in the Senate,
12 every year you guys were passing budgets that
13 had massive back-loaded tax cuts for the
14 wealthiest New Yorkers and massive spending
15 increases -- 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, in the
16 face of an economic downturn. Fundamentally
17 unsound policy.
18 Of the twelve largest debtors in
19 the United States, half are New York State and
20 New York State entities -- the Dormitory
21 Authority, the Thruway Authority, the MTA.
22 This is a state that if this was a
23 private company, there would be a malpractice
24 action by every shareholder. But when the
25 voters are protesting, when the voters are
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1 saying we're tired of this, we want reform, we
2 want to shake up the Legislature, that is the
3 equivalent of a shareholder derivative action
4 against all of us.
5 So maybe it's not a bad idea to
6 start to ask some hard questions about how
7 we're doing things. And I hope that as we
8 enter this session, we are going to do better
9 than say, Oh, you know, we're doing a great
10 job in this house, the problem is all on the
11 other side.
12 The problem is, it's our job to get
13 together with the other side. And I realize
14 it's not easy. You all are in families. None
15 of this is easy. But sometimes you have to
16 eat your pride. Sometimes you have to go
17 negotiate things in ways that are different.
18 Right now the system in Albany has
19 become well known to people around the state.
20 Everything goes in the hopper for one big
21 end-of-session negotiation. It's not working,
22 ladies and gentlemen. The budget being held
23 up for nonbudget items, gun control being held
24 up for issues that relate to social services.
25 We have made massive cuts in
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1 programs, we have made massive cuts in taxes
2 for the wealthy. We have shifted the burden
3 systematically, as Senator Ada Smith noted, to
4 more regressive taxes like the sales tax.
5 And we're facing now a budget where
6 the Governor is proposing to eliminate, to
7 repeal the income tax surcharge on the
8 wealthiest New Yorkers and yet to eliminate
9 the exemption for sales tax for clothing sales
10 under $110.
11 That's the direction we've been
12 going in in this state since I've been here.
13 And these budgets have been passed with the
14 support of many of my colleagues here today.
15 So let's not pretend this doesn't
16 have anything to do with us. The first step
17 in solving a problem is to recognize you've
18 got a problem. And every week we're here and
19 we hear this refrain, We're wonderful; it's
20 the Assembly.
21 Our job is to pass laws, not
22 one-house bills, and not to just play this
23 blame game. I assure you there are similar
24 comments going on in the other house that are
25 equally useless to solving the problems of the
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1 people of this state.
2 So this is a bad, bad tax increase.
3 Some of us will support it holding our nose.
4 Some may say, you know what, I have to send a
5 protest any way I can, I'm voting no -- as
6 did, I believe, quite a few members of the
7 Assembly. I think all the Assembly
8 Republicans in this area voted no on this. So
9 you send messages however you can.
10 But the big message is this. The
11 voters in this state are tired of this
12 gridlock, they're tired of an increasingly
13 regressive state that doesn't deliver the
14 services they deserve for the taxes they pay.
15 So let's not pretend this doesn't have to do
16 with us.
17 I'm going to vote for this bill. I
18 understand what Senator Meier is saying. If
19 the City of New York comes here with bills to
20 change its laws, I hope we'll be equally
21 receptive whether it relates to rent control
22 or changes in our own taxes.
23 But let's not play this game where
24 we pretend the Senate is up on a hill shining
25 in light and the problems lie elsewhere. We
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1 have work to do here. Our job is to pass
2 laws. If we can't do the job, the public
3 wants someone here who can.
4 Thank you, Madam President.
5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Meier.
6 SENATOR MEIER: Thank you, Madam
7 President.
8 At the risk of changing Senator
9 Schneiderman's mind about his vote, I find
10 both the response and the responder
11 interesting. Senator Schneiderman, you see,
12 was one of the three people who voted no on
13 the Medicaid reform bill that passed through
14 here last year with nearly unanimous
15 bipartisan support.
16 I'm the last guy in the world that
17 you're going to see stand here and say that
18 we're perfect or what we do here is perfect
19 and that everything that's bad about this town
20 resides in the opposite chamber. We're not
21 talking about generalities; we're talking
22 about the specifics of Medicaid reform.
23 And last year we introduced a bill,
24 we voted for it over here, all but three of
25 our Democrat colleagues voted for it. We did
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1 something. We did something. And part of the
2 thing that we did was we were able to achieve
3 some bipartisan consensus. And I think it is
4 not being partisan and it is being an
5 accurate, objective observer to point out that
6 the other body was not even able to introduce
7 a bill, let alone pass one.
8 And so on this issue it would be
9 nice if they would do so. Senator Hannon,
10 Senator Rath and others, we're going to work
11 on another package this year. It would be
12 nice if the other body could get a bill to the
13 floor and pass it. Maybe we could even, in a
14 new spirit around this town, get together in a
15 conference committee and make it possible for
16 us to sunset some of these sales tax
17 increases.
18 I have a hard time, though, I must
19 say, telling people with a valid home-rule
20 request that, no, Albany knows best and
21 regardless of who's at fault, why don't you
22 wait around until we decide what to do with
23 Medicaid. It's a home-rule request. I'd ask
24 my colleagues to support it.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
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1 Senator Volker.
2 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, I
3 normally don't get into these political
4 debates.
5 (Laughter.)
6 SENATOR VOLKER: But let me point
7 out something. Senator Valesky, you weren't
8 here in '97 when we did a substantial Medicaid
9 reform here. In fact, the result of the
10 legislation, a million people went off of
11 welfare. I'm told that 100,000 people went
12 off in a matter of a few months when we did
13 fingerprinting here. It's amazing, they just
14 dematerialized. Mostly in New York City, by
15 the way. That never was -- The New York Times
16 somehow missed that, and a lot of things.
17 Actually, we had a complete dip in
18 Medicaid in '97, '98. And during that time,
19 County Executive Joel Giambra in Erie County
20 cut real property taxes by over 30 percent.
21 Now, Nassau, which was run at the
22 time by Republicans, they didn't do anything.
23 In fact, they just kept spending. A lot of
24 counties did. In fact, we don't even think
25 they enacted some of the reforms that were
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1 done here, by the way.
2 But what happened is 2001 came,
3 9/11. And all of a sudden, after 9/11,
4 Medicaid started cresting again. But I must
5 tell you, there's a difference in Medicaid's
6 crest now than it was back in the 1990s. It
7 is mostly wealthy Medicaid, which most people
8 don't realize -- nursing homes, long-term
9 care, et cetera. We know that. We've got to
10 deal with it.
11 The Assembly, you can say all you
12 want about the Assembly, 63 people held the
13 budget hostage in New York City because of
14 school aid until August. Now, you can tell us
15 that we should negotiate. We'd have to
16 negotiate with guns. I mean, how do you
17 negotiate when people won't listen to you?
18 This house has tried to do Medicaid
19 reform for years. We know it's a tough
20 New York City issue. We know that. But I
21 have to tell you, it's disingenuous to say
22 that this house is more at fault or is as much
23 at fault when we've been trying to do
24 something.
25 And I want to tell you something.
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1 The Brennan Institute is a New York City
2 institution trying to help New York City. We
3 know -- I know that. I realize that we can
4 talk all we want about this nonsense about,
5 you know, what we're talking about here. But
6 this house -- and by the way, you there on the
7 Codes Committee, and I said it to everybody,
8 we had the most successful criminal justice
9 year last year in my time. We passed major
10 legislation.
11 My good friend Sheldon Silver, I
12 think the reason he's doing this death penalty
13 thing now, he's trying to recoup some of his
14 friends who were pretty upset at some of that
15 legislation. It's pretty tough legislation.
16 So he's now trying to show, I think, how tough
17 he is against crime. But -- I mean on the
18 death penalty.
19 The death penalty, The New York
20 Times is pushing the death penalty and they're
21 opposed to it and they're trying to make it
22 into some sort of a -- you're going to get a
23 chance, by the way, on the death penalty very
24 soon, because we're going to do the fix here.
25 The Governor is going to get it to us. He
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1 will, very shortly, and we're going to do it.
2 And we'll see how the Assembly stands up.
3 That's up to them.
4 But I just want everybody to know,
5 you can say all you want about this house, but
6 Democrats and Republicans here have got
7 together. That hasn't happened in the other
8 house. They're friends of mine and all that.
9 But this house has been ready to reform
10 Medicaid, it's been ready to deal with school
11 aid, it's been ready to deal with all those
12 kinds of things. And yet we have not been
13 able to successfully convince the other house
14 to do that. That's too bad.
15 But don't accuse us of sitting here
16 doing nothing. That's silly. I mean, that's
17 what, unfortunately, some people in the
18 Business Council have done.
19 And by the way, Eric, I didn't
20 realize that cutting the estate tax for
21 middle-income people was for wealthy people.
22 I didn't realize that getting rid of the gift
23 tax was for wealthy people. I guess I didn't
24 realize that getting rid of corporate taxes
25 and bringing some of them down and all those
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1 different taxes we've done -- by the way, we
2 have cut more taxes in this state than any
3 state in the union ever has. And that's true.
4 But we, until 9/11, until we got hit by 9/11,
5 we were in very good shape.
6 By the way, one more thing I want
7 to say. The Thruway Authority is not a
8 taxpayer's expense. The entire debt of the
9 Thruway Authority, like a lot of other of
10 those institutions, are paid for out of
11 revenue and they're paid for from the tolls.
12 Even, by the way, UDC. A lot of UDC debt is
13 paid for out of revenues from the facilities
14 that were set up by UDC. It's something that
15 no one pays a lot of attention to. A lot of
16 our debt is not paid for by taxpayers.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
18 Senator LaValle.
19 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you, Mr.
20 President.
21 I think this is probably the first
22 time that I have gotten up and talked about a
23 sales tax bill in a county other than Suffolk.
24 But I think there are a couple of things that
25 were said in this debate that I think we need
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1 to talk about, that need to be reinforced.
2 Senator Meier, as a colleague in
3 this chamber, along with Senator Rath and
4 Senator Hannon, have probably done more to
5 advance Medicaid reform than anyone else.
6 They held hearings and meetings around this
7 state and worked doggedly to try and bring
8 about change. I think it's been mentioned
9 several times that Senator Paterson was part
10 of those deliberations.
11 And Senator Meier, as he said in
12 his remarks, knows firsthand, being a county
13 executive, what it is and what the impact of
14 Medicaid. And I think he brought to the table
15 some of the recommendations on how we reform
16 the system that could very tangibly help the
17 counties.
18 And this house did, as he said,
19 pass -- with but, what, three negative
20 votes -- legislation. And I think the hope
21 and the expectation was that after all of that
22 work holding hearings and meetings, meeting
23 with stakeholders, that we would have a
24 positive result.
25 The thing that was upsetting -- and
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1 I think we have to evaluate some of the words
2 that we use. Senator Schneiderman, when you
3 use the word "disconnect" in talking about the
4 process, I take umbrage with that.
5 Because the process is that the
6 county executive and the county legislature in
7 Oneida County are elected by the people in
8 Oneida County. They have a debate and a
9 dialogue over how they are going to deal with
10 their budget. They talk about and debate
11 whether they're going to make cuts in
12 programs, whether they're going to raise real
13 property taxes.
14 And so, as has been said by Senator
15 Volker and Senator Meier, they have made a
16 request of this body, under our constitution
17 and our laws, that they be -- that they can
18 move forward and enact this tax. We are not
19 doing it because we believe this is the best
20 methodology; they, locally, have made these
21 judgments and have asked this house and the
22 other house and the Governor to go along with
23 their wishes.
24 So I don't know how that's a
25 disconnect. That is very much a connect in
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1 terms of our process, our constitution, and
2 our law.
3 And we just can't be frivolous and
4 use words like "dysfunction," "disconnect" and
5 hope that they're going to connect someplace
6 out there. We are trying, both individually
7 and collectively, to build respect for
8 ourselves and our institution. And our
9 institution is the Senate of the State of
10 New York. And it's important that we keep our
11 eye on that ball.
12 Now, we are certainly, through our
13 Majority Leader, Minority Leader, and as
14 individual members, doing everything possible
15 to build a connection wherever possible with
16 the other house and with the Executive.
17 Because as we all know, our process has three
18 components and three parts to it. And it has
19 to come together like a good play at the end
20 where everyone can come out on the stage and
21 take a bow that we've brought closure and
22 resolution.
23 So I really rise because there is a
24 connection here. It started in Oneida County.
25 It started with the elected officials and came
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1 forward. And I think Senator Meier
2 rhetorically raises a good question. What are
3 the people to do when they make a judgment
4 that they want $26 million in expenditures,
5 how are they going to make that closure? They
6 made a decision that they wanted this
7 legislation.
8 I am confident, just to go back on
9 the issue of Medicaid, that we made major
10 steps last year. You heard one of the major
11 movers say he will come back again and again
12 and again until we get closure on Medicaid
13 reform. Not everyone is in agreement on how
14 we achieve that. But I am sure, because of
15 his and Senator Rath, Senator Hannon and other
16 people involved in this issue, that we will
17 reach compromises through negotiations. But
18 we do need the other house to come to the
19 table and say we'll meet you halfway.
20 Thank you. I vote in the
21 affirmative.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
23 Before the chair recognizes the next speaker,
24 I would just remind the members, as we see
25 from up here people walking in and out, that
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1 come the time of the vote, we must be in our
2 chairs to be counted.
3 So I would remind everybody, it
4 makes it a lot easier on the people up here
5 who have to do the counting if everybody would
6 be in their seats and would stay in their
7 seats as much as possible.
8 Senator Balboni.
9 SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President,
10 at the risk of belaboring this discussion, I
11 find this debate today to be wholly
12 appropriate at this time of the session.
13 Let's get down to rules. How are we going to
14 play with one another? How are we going to
15 talk to each other?
16 This is supposed to be a new year.
17 Right? Reform is in the air. We're supposed
18 to do things differently. Let's start now.
19 Let's start by understanding that we are only
20 one house. As much as we'd like to think that
21 we control the agenda for the Assembly or for
22 the Governor, we do not. It's us.
23 So on the bills that we all the
24 mostly agree on, please join us in lobbying
25 the other house. It's your responsibility, as
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1 ours. Because there are people really hurting
2 in this state, really hurting. We need to
3 move together on this.
4 So it's not just -- Senator
5 Schneiderman, I understand your role. I've
6 played your role. You are to bring some
7 positive commentary for the other house. I
8 understand that. But at the same time, you
9 have an opportunity and a responsibility to
10 take the message of this house, particularly
11 when your conference supports it, and bring it
12 to the other house.
13 And Senator Valesky -- actually,
14 Marty Connor is in the chamber. And, Marty,
15 you talked about something last week, about
16 the respect we pay one another. I thought it
17 was a very good comment. Well, part of the
18 respect that I grew up with in the State
19 Assembly was that I would never think of
20 voting against a home-rule message. Never.
21 You know why? Unless I had gone to
22 that county, pulled their municipal records,
23 went through their budgets, spoke to their
24 legislators and understood that they were
25 making the wrong decision that bordered on
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1 scandal, I would never second-guess them.
2 Because the body we're second-guessing is an
3 independently elected body. It's not
4 appointed like, say, the Court of Appeals that
5 might keep on a huge unfunded mandate on the
6 state, and with no electoral accountability.
7 The people in Oneida County, they
8 have electoral accountability. And therefore
9 they will be responsible to their voters and
10 their constituents.
11 As we go forward, I'm very sincere
12 in my plea. On the things we agree on, let's
13 work to get the other house to join with us
14 for the betterment of everybody.
15 Thank you, Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
17 Senator Nozzolio.
18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
19 on the bill.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
21 Senator Nozzolio, on the bill.
22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I wish to
23 build upon the comments of my colleagues to
24 discuss two areas that I never thought I'd be
25 rising over today, but the debate has moved me
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1 to do so.
2 The respect that I wish we would
3 have is certainly for this house but, more
4 importantly, for the constitution of this
5 state. The constitution of this state clearly
6 respects the issue of home rule, a
7 long-standing legal obligation that the State
8 of New York and local units of government with
9 within this state have had to endure and enjoy
10 and fight for and respect for over two
11 centuries.
12 Ironically, when the work
13 "Democracy in America" was written, it was
14 written by a Frenchman who traveled through,
15 in all likelihood, Oneida County and other
16 areas through Central New York to discuss what
17 made the United States and democracy in the
18 United States different than what has being
19 displayed in Europe in the early part of the
20 19th century.
21 And that difference was how we
22 dealt in the United States, this new country,
23 with local units of government. There was a
24 respect for government at local levels, an
25 understanding of the dynamics and a
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1 cooperative partnership between local, state
2 and federal systems.
3 We're here today as an outgrowth of
4 what de Tocqueville talked about, about
5 democracy in America. We're here as an
6 outgrowth directly of what is in our New York
7 State Constitution, and that is respect for
8 local units of government and the decisions
9 they make.
10 This body has a responsibility to
11 review, but that review also must be taken
12 with respect to the needs of local government.
13 And their request before us is very specific,
14 as sponsored by Senator Meier, as pro-offered
15 to this Senate. Our mandate is clear. Our
16 direction is simple. The authority was
17 requested by the County of Oneida.
18 For us to micromanage, to turn our
19 backs on that request says to Oneida County:
20 We're not interested in hearing your opinion.
21 Our opinion matters, not yours. That's a
22 travesty. That's a travesty of this
23 institution. It's a travesty of the
24 constitution.
25 On the broader issue of Medicaid
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1 reform, ironically, the architect of Medicaid
2 reform in this house is Senator Meier, who
3 comes from Oneida County and represents that
4 county. For us to parse words and indicate
5 that for some reason this Legislature is
6 fully, totally, exclusively, undeniably
7 responsible for the lack of reform, and
8 particularly the Senate is responsible for the
9 lack of that reform, I think is disingenuous
10 at best.
11 I ask my colleagues on the other
12 side of the aisle, of which at least 24 of you
13 voted for our Medicaid reform principles, in
14 effect, do you believe that it was right for
15 the Assembly not to take up this issue last
16 year?
17 I don't hear any of you describe
18 your consternation in the fact that Medicaid
19 reform was totally ignored by that other
20 house, the other house this year, last year,
21 the year before. Where is your righteous
22 indignation with the fact that the Assembly
23 never even cared enough to pro-offer a
24 substantial reform measure by any member of
25 the majority?
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1 Those of you Democrats who voted
2 for Medicaid reform, I would implore you to
3 ask your colleagues on the Democratic side of
4 the aisle in the Assembly why they have
5 refused to join the Senate in Medicaid reform.
6 Our counties in upstate, their backs are
7 against the wall. Our property taxpayers were
8 never expected to pay for the largest
9 single-cost item of the state budget. And
10 that's health care for the poor.
11 We support health care for the
12 poor. We're just asking you to say that our
13 property taxpayers can no longer afford to
14 bear that entire burden. We ask for you to
15 join us in reforming the Medicaid system.
16 Frankly, what you're telling us,
17 though, is the counties can drop dead. Is
18 that the response that we should be giving to
19 the counties who are dealing with formulas
20 that they never create but are having to deal
21 with? I think not.
22 Twenty-four of you supported our
23 Medicaid reform the last year. Please use
24 this year as the opportunity to push for
25 Medicaid reform. Before we tell the counties
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1 how they should be running their governments,
2 we should be telling the State of New York
3 that it can no longer pass on the burden of
4 Medicaid to the local property taxpayers in
5 this state.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
7 Senator Brown.
8 SENATOR BROWN: Thank you, Mr.
9 President. On the bill.
10 You know, there's been a lot of
11 talk today about us supporting the things that
12 we agree on. And one bill that we dealt with
13 today that I think we all agreed on, because
14 it was noncontroversial, that got just about
15 every member's vote, was Senator Rath's bill
16 to create a joint bipartisan task force to
17 study the legislative process.
18 And I commend Senator Rath and I
19 commend Assemblywoman Galef for that bill,
20 which really deals with the reform -- and
21 Senator Robach. I know he's a prime cosponsor
22 of the bill, as many of us in this chamber are
23 cosponsors of that piece of legislation.
24 And what it deals with is a process
25 by which the two houses of this Legislature
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1 can come together and talk about how we can
2 work more cooperatively together to get these
3 important issues addressed for the public.
4 And let's be honest about it.
5 Let's be realistic about it. Until we as
6 members of this Legislature start working with
7 each other more cooperatively, start sitting
8 down more regularly, Democrats and
9 Republicans, Assembly members and Senators,
10 some of these critical issues that affect each
11 and every one of our districts are not going
12 to be addressed properly.
13 Now we're all talking about
14 Medicaid reform and the impact of Medicaid on
15 our counties. But Medicaid reform isn't one
16 of the bills that we're dealing with early in
17 the session so counties wouldn't have to make
18 these terrible choices, so our upstate
19 counties principally wouldn't be at such a
20 competitive disadvantage with other
21 neighboring communities.
22 Because when we pass these
23 increases in these county sales taxes, these
24 counties are going to be at terrible, terrible
25 competitive disadvantages. In fact, you know,
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1 all of us who think job creation and economic
2 development is so important will be dealing
3 with the aftermath of the increase in these
4 sales taxes.
5 So I am hopeful that Assembly
6 Member Galef and Senator Rath's bill really is
7 treated seriously by this house, to get both
8 houses of the Legislature working together
9 cooperatively so that we can reform the
10 process of how the houses communicate, about
11 how we get things on the agenda, so that we
12 can deal with the conference committee
13 process, so that we can work out differences
14 in legislation.
15 So that when bills come to this
16 house, they will also come to the other house
17 of the Legislature, so there won't be so many
18 one-house bills that we're dealing with that
19 we know at the end of the day will end up not
20 going anywhere.
21 So it grieves me that we are in
22 this position today where we have county
23 governments that are in this unenviable
24 position where they have to balance their
25 budgets based on raising the sales tax to
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1 astronomical proportions. It grieves me that
2 we are not dealing with Medicaid reform
3 earlier in the session so that county
4 governments would not be in this very
5 difficult position.
6 And I don't think it is
7 unreasonable as a protest, I don't think it is
8 unreasonable as a way of sending a message
9 that members of good conscience vote against
10 these sales tax increases. Because what we
11 are doing to our local communities is going to
12 have a devastating effect.
13 And I think we need to spend more
14 time working together, dialoguing together and
15 finding ways that both houses of this
16 Legislature can address the important business
17 that the people have sent us here to do.
18 Thank you, Mr. President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
20 Senator Schneiderman.
21 We have an order, Senator. You
22 were up. Unless you want to yield your space.
23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I'll yield
24 my space.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
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1 Senator Krueger, then.
2 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
3 Mr. President, if I could request
4 Senator Nozzolio to answer a question, please,
5 based on his earlier statement in the debate.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
7 Senator Nozzolio, do you yield to a question
8 from Senator Krueger?
9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
10 President.
11 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
12 Senator Nozzolio, I heard your very
13 impassioned argument for home rule. And
14 Senator Balboni also made an impassioned
15 argument for home rule. And so I want to ask
16 you, if the City of New York sends home rule
17 bills here this year, do you commit that you
18 will vote for them?
19 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
20 of course I am not sure what specific
21 legislation Senator Krueger refers to.
22 But I believe that not only myself
23 but many if not virtually all members of this
24 side of the aisle have consistently supported
25 home rule measures asked for, requested for by
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1 the City of New York.
2 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
3 Mr. President, if Senator Nozzolio
4 would yield to an additional question.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
6 Senator, will you yield for an additional
7 question?
8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr.
9 President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
11 Senator yields.
12 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
13 Mr. President.
14 Your point is valid and well-taken.
15 If the City of New York were to send a
16 home-rule message asking for repeal of the
17 Urstadt Law and return of decisions about
18 housing policy in New York City to the City of
19 New York, would you vote for that, sir?
20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
21 an unusual request on the floor of the Senate
22 asking me how I would vote on a measure when
23 describing only the title, not certain about
24 the merits of the issue and whether in fact it
25 is a home-rule request or simply an issue
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1 which the proponents wish to forge. I think
2 it's a question that is inappropriately
3 disguised as a home-rule request.
4 I, though, stand by my original
5 answer. I have supported home-rule requests
6 in the past and certainly intend to respect
7 and support home-rule requests in the future.
8 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr.
9 President, if the Senator would yield to an
10 additional question, please.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
12 Senator, do you yield for an additional
13 question?
14 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I'd be happy
15 to yield for an additional question, Mr.
16 President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
18 Senator yields.
19 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you
20 so much.
21 I am not familiar with a disguised
22 home-rule message. How is that different than
23 an actual home-rule message?
24 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
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1 Senator Nozzolio.
2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Would Senator
3 Krueger be so kind as to repeat the question.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
5 Senator, would you so kind as to repeat the
6 question?
7 And I would ask my colleagues to
8 please hold down the conversations so
9 everybody can hear clearly what's going on.
10 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
12 Thank you.
13 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Again, if I
14 misheard you, I apologize. But I heard you
15 say that you would always support a home-rule
16 message but that you couldn't answer the
17 question of whether you would support that
18 home-rule message because it might be
19 disguised as a home-rule message as opposed to
20 being an actual home-rule message.
21 So I was wondering if you could
22 describe to me the difference between a
23 document that comes up from a locality that is
24 an actual home-rule message versus one that
25 might just be masquerading as such.
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1 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Well, let me,
2 Mr. President, try to respond Senator Krueger
3 this way.
4 If it's a home-rule message
5 appropriately before this house as a home-rule
6 message, attached, that's a measure that would
7 support.
8 You asked me, Senator -- Mr.
9 President, Senator Krueger asked me whether or
10 not a specific subject matter, could I support
11 that bill or could I not support that bill.
12 My response to you, Mr. President, was of
13 course I could respond to a home-rule request.
14 I wasn't sure whether the specific
15 subject matter Senator Krueger referenced was
16 in factual a valid subject for a home-rule
17 message.
18 If in fact it is a valid subject
19 for a home-rule message and we have
20 appropriate documentation and this house
21 considers such a message and such a proposal,
22 I certainly respect home rule, as I have in
23 the past, as most of the members of this side
24 of the aisle have continually for years
25 supported home-rule messages. And regardless
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1 of what jurisdiction they come from, that I
2 certainly would support that matter and look
3 forward to discussions like this in the
4 future.
5 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
6 Thank you, Senator Nozzolio.
7 Mr. President, if I could ask
8 Senator Balboni to yield to a question.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
10 Senator Balboni, will you yield to a question
11 from Senator Krueger?
12 SENATOR BALBONI: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
14 Senator yields.
15 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
16 Thank you very much, Mr. President.
17 Senator Balboni, you also made an
18 eloquent argument --
19 SENATOR BALBONI: Thank you.
20 Very nice.
21 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: -- for
22 supporting home-rule messages. I didn't agree
23 with all of your points today, but I
24 appreciated the eloquence around home rule.
25 Would you support any home-rule
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1 bill that came from the City of New York to
2 the Senate floor, based on your statement
3 earlier today?
4 SENATOR BALBONI: Any one? No.
5 And I would hope that nobody in the chamber
6 would support any home-rule message that came
7 to this chamber without examining it first,
8 seeing the circumstances underlying the
9 different proposals, seeing whether in fact it
10 has been supported by members who come from
11 that county.
12 I think the point you're trying to
13 make is part of the appeal that I was making.
14 We should be very careful about voting against
15 other communities. And a vote against a
16 home-rule message is a vote against other
17 communities.
18 Now, we have the right to do what
19 we want to do. That's why people elected us
20 and sent us here. My point is that before you
21 do that, you've got to exercise due diligence.
22 You have to look underneath, find out what the
23 motivations are, are they valid. In that
24 case, then of course it's appropriate to vote
25 up or down.
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1 But my point is that you should
2 always try to respect and give the benefit of
3 the doubt unless you have something to the
4 contrary.
5 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
6 Mr. President, if Senator Balboni
7 would yield to an additional question.
8 SENATOR BALBONI: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: I
10 hear you, Senator. The chair would never,
11 ever attempt to in any way stifle debate. But
12 one would ask that we are debating a bill here
13 on a tax proposal from a particular community.
14 And what I'm hearing from up here is a
15 philosophical debate on home-rule messages
16 that might be better served for a later time.
17 However, Senator Krueger, if you
18 wish to question the Senator, he has already
19 yielded.
20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: No, I
21 accept your argument. Thank you, Mr.
22 President. I would like to speak on the bill.
23 And I appreciate your raising --
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
25 Senator Krueger, on the bill.
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1 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: You raise a
2 good question of germaneness, because if one
3 had been listening here today, one might think
4 this was a Medicaid bill, not a sales tax bill
5 for Oneida County. So that in fact was a tad
6 confusing perhaps to some of us as well.
7 But since so many issues have been
8 raised to make this bill broader than a sales
9 tax in Oneida County, and so many of my
10 colleagues have spoken -- and they've spoken
11 about Medicaid. And I am one of the three
12 Democrats who voted against the Medicaid bill
13 that was brought to the floor last year.
14 And I highly respect Senator Meier
15 and his work on Medicaid, and I agreed with
16 many parts of the bill. But I have to tell
17 you and remind everyone, the fact that we
18 passed a Medicaid reform bill did not
19 necessarily make it a good Medicaid reform
20 bill and did not necessarily mean that it was
21 the direction we should have gone down --
22 without denying the importance of addressing
23 Medicaid.
24 It is also true that this is not a
25 sales tax bill specifically tied into
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1 Medicaid. Because one might have to ask the
2 question, then, since there are counties in
3 the State of New York who pay dramatically
4 greater shares at a local level for Medicaid
5 than Oneida County, why are we not addressing
6 this in terms of every county?
7 Oneida County pays a percentage of
8 the New York State Medicaid cost dramatically
9 lower than my own City of New York, which pays
10 18 percent of the Medicaid cost, far above the
11 state average. Oneida County is one of the
12 counties in the state that pays lower than
13 average. Not to reject the argument that all
14 of New York State counties are suffering from
15 having too great a share of costs to deal with
16 given their tax policies and their tax
17 structure.
18 But I do want to address the fact
19 that sales tax is one of the most regressive
20 taxes out there. And several people raised it
21 before. Senator Volker made the argument -- I
22 don't see him right now, I apologize. He's
23 not here at the moment -- that in fact we've
24 done good things by reducing our other taxes
25 even if we've had to increase our sales tax to
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1 make up for the cost.
2 And he referenced that estate taxes
3 are not taxes that are applied only to the
4 wealthy. Well, I would disagree. In fact,
5 the estate tax right now loses us $705 million
6 a year in this state, and it is
7 disproportionately from the top 40 percent
8 income brackets for the State of New York.
9 The sales tax of course falls
10 highest and the greatest pain is felt by the
11 people who are the lowest 40 percent income
12 earners in the state.
13 And he mentioned corporate taxes
14 being reduced and that that's a good thing.
15 And of course nobody ever wants to see taxes
16 go up, they want to see them go down. But in
17 fact, when you look through the tax
18 expenditure budget, the largest and the only
19 significant corporate tax, now about 1.3 --
20 excuse me, forecast to be about $2.3 billion
21 this year is an exclusion of interest,
22 dividends and capital gains from subsidiary
23 capital.
24 That is not a tax reduction that is
25 going to small businesses. That is a tax
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1 reduction going to the largest corporations
2 and multinational corporations.
3 So in fact we do leave ourselves
4 with the situation you respect a locality's
5 request to raise their sales tax even though
6 you know it is the most regressive tax and
7 even though you know it is because we do fail
8 to come together and do the job we need to do
9 here.
10 So I will support this bill despite
11 my opposition to sales tax increases. I will
12 track my colleagues' commitment to
13 home-rule-message philosophy throughout the
14 future of this session.
15 But I would also raise the question
16 of when other dollar amounts are asked of us
17 in our budget, we should think very carefully
18 about the people of Oneida County and all our
19 counties and what are they are paying in to
20 contribute to the debate and the future for
21 the budget and where we get our money or how
22 we spend our money.
23 I would urge our colleagues in
24 advance, do not spend $300 million of state
25 money for a Jets stadium in Manhattan, and do
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1 not support the City of New York spending
2 $300 million of its money for the Jets
3 stadium, unless you truly believe every other
4 item that is more important to the State of
5 New York and the City of New York has been
6 addressed prior to that.
7 So I will support this bill on the
8 home-rule ground. But this debate raises many
9 questions for all of us as we move forward in
10 this session about how we decide to tax our
11 population, who gets taxed, who doesn't, and
12 then how we spend the people's money.
13 Thank you, Mr. President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
15 Senator Skelos.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
17 when analyzing a home-rule bill that is before
18 us, as was laid out before the Senate by
19 Senator Meier, obviously the elected officials
20 of Oneida County made a very deliberative
21 decision and deliberate decision that this was
22 in the best interest of their constituency to
23 maintain the vital services that are
24 necessary.
25 We've heard much of a debate about
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1 home-rule messages. When, again, I look at a
2 home-rule message, if a deliberate decision
3 has been made by the local officials, I think
4 it's appropriate for this house to support
5 that legislation.
6 And would Senator Balboni yield for
7 a question.
8 SENATOR BALBONI: Yes, Mr.
9 President.
10 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator Balboni,
11 there was an issue concerning respecting every
12 single home-rule message. The question to you
13 is, if New York City came with a home-rule
14 message to reimpose the commuter tax on people
15 outside of New York City, do you think that's
16 something that we could vote against?
17 SENATOR BALBONI: I would
18 certainly hope so.
19 SENATOR SKELOS: That impacts
20 people beyond New York City?
21 SENATOR BALBONI: It's an
22 excellent example, Senator, if I might say so,
23 about how home-rule messages are not simply
24 contained within the home jurisdiction. We
25 take it as it comes before us.
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1 SENATOR SKELOS: So we can
2 separate out, in your opinion, a home-rule
3 message that may have a negative impact on
4 other people in other parts of the state or in
5 fact a negative impact on a state interest, as
6 against something that is solely local, such
7 as the request that has come from Oneida
8 County?
9 SENATOR BALBONI: Not only can
10 we, but we must.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very
12 much.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
14 Senator Breslin.
15 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you, Mr.
16 President. On the bill.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
18 Senator Breslin, on the bill.
19 SENATOR BRESLIN: I agree with
20 some of my fellow Senators on the relatively
21 sacred nature of the home-rule message. And I
22 also defer to old tax-and-spend Ray Meier.
23 (Laughter.)
24 SENATOR BRESLIN: Seriously,
25 Senator Meier was carrying out the wishes of
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1 his county officials who voted.
2 But there's a question beyond that.
3 There are bills, as I have had a bill very,
4 very important to my jurisdiction that's
5 gotten, I believe, eight straight home-rule
6 messages. It's been passed every year in the
7 Assembly. But there's another question. It
8 doesn't get to the floor here. And it doesn't
9 get to the floor for good reason, because it's
10 not allowed to get to the floor.
11 And really there may be some
12 criticism of the Brennan report, but it does
13 outline that there were 7,109 bills from 1997
14 to 2001 that passed, but there are a lot of
15 bills that sit. They don't get to be
16 considered as a home-rule basis because they
17 don't get here and because we in the
18 Democratic conference don't have control or
19 power or influence over them.
20 That doesn't mean to say that
21 they're not entirely local, they're not
22 entirely helpful to, in my case, to my
23 jurisdiction, to my people, to my constituents
24 that passes every year in the Assembly but
25 doesn't get to the floor here.
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1 However, I defer in this case to
2 Senator Meier, to his county that suffers and
3 has a $26 million hole. And I very forcefully
4 vote in the affirmative for this bill.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
6 Senator Schneiderman.
7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
8 Thank you, Senator Balboni. The
9 role was rewritten for a slimmer man.
10 (Laughter.)
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
12 Some of us resent that.
13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Mr.
14 President, on the bill.
15 I just want to address primarily a
16 comment that was made by Senator LaValle, a
17 colleague I have a high degree of respect for,
18 about my use of the term "disconnect."
19 I was not talking about the
20 disconnect related to this particular piece of
21 legislation. There's a home-rule message, the
22 county is faced with a problem, it's coming
23 here, we're voting on it. I plan to vote for
24 the bill.
25 The disconnect and the larger issue
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1 which I think started us off on this debate --
2 and this is going to be quite a year if this
3 is an indication of where we're going -- but
4 that started us off and that was raised by
5 Senator Valesky is the larger -- get yourself
6 a pillow and a blanket. It's going to be a
7 lot more talking now that we're all here.
8 The larger issue is simply this.
9 Is it truly a decision being made by this
10 county legislature on their own to raise taxes
11 when their alternative, I gather under the
12 county's estimate, is if they didn't raise
13 sales taxes, they would have a property tax
14 increase of 70 percent? Now, to me, that's
15 not a decision being made because you have
16 freedom to weigh the alternatives. That's a
17 county with a gun to its head. That's a
18 county without a good choice.
19 And when I talk about a disconnect,
20 what I'm referring to is the fact that in this
21 house we appear to have a difficult time
22 accepting responsibility for the fact that, in
23 my view, it is the policies of the State of
24 New York towards our local governments, it is
25 our taxing and spending policies that have put
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1 counties all over the state in this situation.
2 The gun is -- this is not a suicide attempt by
3 Erie and Oneida, this is a gun being held to
4 their head by the state government.
5 And I understand, you know, the
6 pleas for collegiality and for us to help with
7 the Assembly. But let's not lose sight of the
8 reality here. As so eloquently stated by our
9 Majority Leader last week, the Majority rules
10 in this house. You all have absolute control
11 of what bills come to the floor. Senator
12 Breslin pointed out getting a home-rule
13 message doesn't mean anything.
14 Every bill that comes to the floor
15 is signed off on by the Majority. You control
16 the legislative agenda. You negotiate and
17 sign off on the budgets that have put the
18 counties in this situation. And you have the
19 ability to trade and negotiation with the
20 Assembly. We're not invited to those
21 meetings.
22 So if you take the benefits of
23 being in the majority, which you do in terms
24 of resources, in terms of your names on the
25 big bills, then you've got to take the
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1 responsibility. The budgets that have passed
2 this state for the last five years have had a
3 devastating effect on local governments all
4 across the state.
5 Have we -- Senator Volker mentioned
6 cutting taxes. Has the tax burden, if you
7 combine state and local taxes and fees on our
8 citizens, gone down? No, it's gone up. The
9 size of the government has gone up. Has the
10 quality of services necessarily gone up in
11 line with the amount of money people are
12 paying? No.
13 But if you shift from income tax
14 and corporate tax to sales tax to subway fares
15 to SUNY and CUNY tuition increases, that is a
16 tax shift of huge proportions. And we have
17 shifted the tax burden to poor and working
18 New Yorkers.
19 So it's great we're starting the
20 year like this, I agree with Senator Balboni,
21 and that it's good to start with a debate.
22 Let's talk about tax policy. Let's talk about
23 the results of our conduct, not about the
24 one-house bills we pass and our intentions.
25 What is the effect of the work we do in Albany
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1 having on the people out there? And that's
2 where I feel, Senator LaValle, there's
3 something of a disconnect.
4 This is not a county on its own
5 undertaking. This is a county forced into
6 this situation by the policies of the State of
7 New York. We have the ability, and maybe
8 holding out until we get something better done
9 is the answer. Maybe if that's all under the
10 Court of Appeals decision we're allowed to do,
11 we may be forced to do it.
12 But business as usual is not
13 getting the job done. Business as usual is
14 not acceptable to the voters. So I hope to be
15 able to work together. But we're not -- it's
16 not going to do us any good if we work
17 together in the same old patterns of passing
18 bills here and praising ourselves and the
19 Assembly passes their bills and praises
20 themselves and we leave without solving the
21 problems.
22 And if that means holdouts, if that
23 means working all night, if that means doing
24 something different than we've ever done
25 before, maybe we need to try it.
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1 I thank Senator Meier for bringing
2 this to our attention. I thank Senator
3 Valesky for provoking the debate. I think we
4 should have a serious debate about how we tax
5 and how we spend in this state, and I'm happy
6 that we have started it this early in the
7 process.
8 And maybe if we have some time
9 between now and the time we pass the budget,
10 we can actually come up with a better solution
11 for the many, many millions of people who
12 depend on us not to show up and put out press
13 releases and pass one-house bills, but to pass
14 laws and programs that make their lives
15 better.
16 Thank you, Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
18 Does anyone else wish to be heard?
19 Seeing no one, the debate is
20 closed.
21 The Secretary will ring the bell.
22 The Sergeant-at-Arms will bring the members
23 into the chamber.
24 There is a local fiscal impact
25 statement at the desk.
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1 Read the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
5 Call the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: I
8 would remind everybody to be in their seats,
9 please.
10 Announce the results, please.
11 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
12 the negative on Calendar Number 9 are Senators
13 Brown, Klein, Morahan, and Valesky.
14 Ayes, 54. Nays, 4.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The
16 bill is passed.
17 Senator Skelos.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
19 is there any further business to come before
20 the Senate?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: No,
22 Senator, there is not.
23 SENATOR SKELOS: Then on behalf
24 of Senator Bruno, I'd like to hand up at this
25 time a Senate Minority leadership roster and
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1 ask that it be filed.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: It
3 will be received and entered into the Journal.
4 Senator Skelos.
5 SENATOR SKELOS: There being no
6 further business to come before the Senate, I
7 move we stand adjourned until Wednesday,
8 February 2nd, at 11:00 a.m.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:
10 Session is adjourned until Wednesday,
11 February 2nd, at 11:00 a.m.
12 (Whereupon, at 4:35 p.m., the
13 Senate adjourned.)
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