Regular Session - February 8, 2005

    

 
                                                        496



         1                 NEW YORK STATE SENATE

         2

         3

         4                THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

         5

         6

         7

         8

         9                   ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                   February 8, 2005

        11                       3:00 p.m.

        12

        13

        14                    REGULAR SESSION

        15

        16

        17

        18  SENATOR JOHN J. FLANAGAN, Acting President

        19  STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

        20

        21

        22

        23

        24

        25



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         1                 P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    The

         3       Senate will come to order.

         4                  I ask everyone present to please

         5       rise and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance.

         6                  (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

         7       the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    In

         9       the absence of clergy, I would ask everyone to

        10       bow their heads in a moment of silence.

        11                  (Whereupon, the assemblage

        12       respected a moment of silence.)

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        14       Reading of the Journal.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

        16       Monday, February 7, the Senate met pursuant to

        17       adjournment.  The Journal of Friday,

        18       February 4, was read and approved.  On motion,

        19       Senate adjourned.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        21       Without objection, the Journal stands approved

        22       as read.

        23                  Presentation of petitions.

        24                  Messages from the Assembly.

        25                  Messages from the Governor.



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         1                  Reports of standing committees.

         2                  Reports of select committees.

         3                  Communications and reports from

         4       state officers.

         5                  Motions and resolutions.

         6                  Senator Skelos.

         7                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

         8       there is a privileged resolution, 399, at the

         9       desk by Senator Bruno.  I ask that it be read

        10       in its entirety and move for its immediate

        11       adoption.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    The

        13       Secretary will read.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator Bruno,

        15       Legislative Resolution Number 399, recognizing

        16       February 11, 2005, as "Blue Friday."

        17                  "WHEREAS, The State of New York

        18       takes great pride in participating in

        19       significant days of recognition; and

        20                  "WHEREAS, Albany radio station WGNA

        21       has teamed up with the Capital District

        22       Chapter of Concerns of Police Survivors,

        23       Incorporated (COPS), in recognizing

        24       February 11, 2005, as 'Blue Friday' in honor

        25       of Albany Police Lieutenant John Finn and



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         1       Schenectady Police Officer Eric Verteramo,

         2       both of whom tragically and heroically lost

         3       their lives in the line of duty; and

         4                  "WHEREAS, COPS, organized in 1984

         5       with 110 members, is a nationwide nonprofit

         6       organization which helps rebuild the lives of

         7       survivors of law officers killed in the line

         8       of duty, as determined by federal government

         9       criteria; and

        10                  "WHEREAS, COPS also provides

        11       training to law enforcement agencies on

        12       survivor victimization issues and educates the

        13       public of the need to support the law

        14       enforcement profession and its survivors; and

        15                  "WHEREAS, Each year between 140 and

        16       160 officers are killed in the line of duty,

        17       and their families and coworkers are left to

        18       cope with the tragic loss; and

        19                  "WHEREAS, Today COPS' membership

        20       includes spouses, children, parents, siblings,

        21       significant others and coworkers of officers

        22       killed in the line of duty, and consists of

        23       more than 12,000 families; and

        24                  "WHEREAS, February 11 marks the

        25       one-year anniversary of the death of



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         1       Lieutenant John Finn from the Albany Police

         2       Department.  This anniversary is a reminder to

         3       pay tribute to those in the law enforcement

         4       community who have made the ultimate

         5       sacrifice; and

         6                  "WHEREAS, On February 11, 2005,

         7       from 6:00 a.m. until 10:00 a.m., WGNA and COPS

         8       will be taking a donation for a carnation,

         9       selling blue carnations for $5.  T-shirts will

        10       also be available for $10; and

        11                  "WHEREAS, All proceeds will go

        12       directly to COPS in memory of Lieutenant Finn

        13       and Officer Verteramo; and

        14                  "WHEREAS, In addition, supporters

        15       are asked to wear blue on that day; and

        16                  "WHEREAS, The State of New York is

        17       eternally grateful for the service of its

        18       brave men and women in law enforcement and

        19       applauds the efforts of COPS to assist the

        20       families of those who have made the ultimate

        21       sacrifice; now, therefore, be it

        22                  "RESOLVED, That this Legislative

        23       Body pause in its deliberations to recognize

        24       February 11, 2005, as 'Blue Friday'; and be it

        25       further



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         1                  "RESOLVED, That copies of this

         2       resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

         3       to WGNA and COPS."

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

         5       Senator Farley.

         6                  SENATOR FARLEY:    Thank you, Mr.

         7       President.

         8                  This resolution, by Senator Bruno,

         9       myself and Senator Breslin, is one that

        10       proclaims February 11th as "Blue Friday."  And

        11       with us in the gallery are a number of police

        12       officers representing both cities, who lost

        13       two valiant police officers.

        14                  WGNA, a local radio station, has

        15       made a major project out of promoting this.

        16       Incidentally, it's the number-one radio

        17       station listener-wise in this area.  And they

        18       will be holding, this Friday, a sale of

        19       carnations, blue carnations, which Senator

        20       Breslin and I both have on, at the Colonie

        21       Center, and also T-shirts to support COPS,

        22       which is an organization that supports the

        23       families of surviving police officers.

        24                  This is a significant day for us,

        25       because I just want to say a few words about



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         1       these two incredible officers that gave their

         2       lives on behalf of their communities.

         3       Lieutenant John Finn, only 38 years of age,

         4       survived by his wife, Maura, and their two

         5       daughters, Clara and Molly.

         6                  I was told by people that were

         7       there at the funeral mass that the daughter

         8       singing just absolutely devastated the entire

         9       audience.

        10                  You know, this man was somebody

        11       that always wanted to be a police officer.  He

        12       created the Children and Family Service Unit

        13       for the City of Albany.  He was a 13-year

        14       veteran of the Albany P.D. and rose to the

        15       rank of lieutenant.

        16                  He was responding to an armed

        17       robbery within almost sight of the Capitol, on

        18       South Pearl Street, and a fleeing suspect

        19       opened fire, hitting him three times with the

        20       intention to kill him.  Fortunately, he was

        21       able to get off a shot.  But he suffered for

        22       51 days before he passed away.

        23                  A man that is truly loved and

        24       honored by his fellow police officers,

        25       Lieutenant Finn will be sorely missed.



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         1                  In my hometown of Schenectady, Eric

         2       Verteramo, 30 years of age, rushing to a

         3       motorcycle accident, lost control of his

         4       cruiser, slammed into a utility pole and was

         5       killed, I believe, at the site.

         6                  Of course Eric was the ninth

         7       officer who lost his life in the line of duty

         8       in Schenectady.  He was a very bright young

         9       officer known for his good humor and his

        10       physical fitness.  He was an incredible

        11       athlete.  And he's another one that always

        12       wanted to be a police officer.

        13                  I think it's rather significant

        14       that we call this "Blue Friday."  And the

        15       results of this drive will go to try to help

        16       the surviving families.  As we honor these

        17       police officers, you have to realize that they

        18       leave a family behind.  The mourning never

        19       stops.  Those children will never again see or

        20       know their father.  And of course in the case

        21       of Eric, he's a young man -- they're both in

        22       their thirties -- the tragedy is just beyond

        23       belief.

        24                  It is with this that I yield the

        25       floor.  And I'm sure that Senator Breslin, who



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         1       represents the City of Albany, would like to

         2       speak to it.

         3                  Thank you, Mr. President.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

         5       Senator Breslin.

         6                  SENATOR BRESLIN:    Thank you very

         7       much, Mr. President.

         8                  And thank you, Senator Farley, for

         9       such an eloquent presentation about Officer

        10       Verteramo and Lieutenant John Finn from my

        11       city of Albany.  And John Finn's life and my

        12       own and my brother's interacted frequently.

        13       He exemplified what the definition of a police

        14       officer really is about, and that's caring for

        15       others.

        16                  But when we think of that caring

        17       for others, we sometimes lose sight of the

        18       fact that each and every day police officers

        19       go out in the line of duty and put their life

        20       at risk.  And John Finn suffered the ultimate

        21       sacrifice with the loss of his life and, as

        22       Senator Farley said, leaving behind a wife and

        23       two children.

        24                  But he is part of the best, those

        25       people who protect us.  And we're joined here



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         1       today by Chief Jim Turley of the Albany Police

         2       Department and other members of law

         3       enforcement agencies.

         4                  And it will give us -- on "Blue

         5       Friday" on an annual basis, we'll remember

         6       Lieutenant John Finn, but we'll also remember

         7       police forces as an entity.  And it will place

         8       them in our prayers and our thoughts to make

         9       sure that not only for the deceased members,

        10       who we'll raise money for, but each and every

        11       member of those police agencies, what they do

        12       on a daily basis to protect us.

        13                  And I commend Senator Farley, I

        14       commend Senator Bruno for making this happen

        15       today.  And I'm delighted that the entire

        16       Senate will participate in this process, to

        17       make sure that "Blue Friday" is a success this

        18       year as it will be every year.

        19                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        21       Senator Farley.

        22                  SENATOR FARLEY:    With this

        23       addendum, I'd like to say that Senator Bruno

        24       truly regrets that he's not here to address

        25       and honor these police officers.



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         1                  And if it's all right with the

         2       Acting Majority Leader, then we'll open up

         3       this resolution to every member of the Senate.

         4       And anyone wishing not to be on it please

         5       notify the desk.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    On

         7       the resolution, all in favor signify by saying

         8       aye.

         9                  (Response of "Aye.")

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        11       Opposed, nay.

        12                  (No response.)

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    The

        14       resolution is adopted.

        15                  Senator Skelos.

        16                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

        17       if we could go to the noncontroversial reading

        18       of the calendar.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    The

        20       Secretary will read.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        22       11, by Senator McGee, Senate Print 86, an act

        23       to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in

        24       relation to eligibility.

        25                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it



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         1       aside.

         2                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Lay it aside for

         3       the day, please.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    The

         5       bill is laid aside for the day.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         7       14, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 150, an

         8       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

         9       unlawful sale of tobacco.

        10                  SENATOR TRUNZO:    Hold it up for

        11       amendment.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    Lay

        13       it aside for the day.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        15       18, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 237, an

        16       act to amend the Penal Law --

        17                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Lay it

        18       aside.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    The

        20       bill is laid aside.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        22       20, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 274, an

        23       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

        24       clarifying the definition of physical injury.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    Read



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         1       the last section.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect on the first of

         4       November.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    Call

         6       the roll.

         7                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    The

        10       bill is passed.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        12       21, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 312, an

        13       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

        14       including school buses.

        15                  SENATOR SABINI:    Lay it aside.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    The

        17       bill is laid aside.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        19       22, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 498, an

        20       act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in

        21       relation to limiting plea bargaining.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    Read

        23       the last section.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        25       act shall take effect on the first of



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         1       November.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    Call

         3       the roll.

         4                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    The

         7       bill is passed.

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         9       25, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 777, an

        10       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the

        11       imposition of certain fees.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    Read

        13       the last section.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

        15       act shall take effect on the same date as

        16       Part F of Chapter 56 of the Laws of 2004.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    Call

        18       the roll.

        19                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    The

        22       bill is passed.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        24       28, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 183, an

        25       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to



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         1       establishing.

         2                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

         3       aside.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    The

         5       bill is laid aside.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         7       46, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

         8       Print 1815, an act to amend the Insurance Law,

         9       in relation to insurance conversions.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    Read

        11       the last section.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    Call

        15       the roll.

        16                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

        17       aside.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    The

        19       bill is laid aside.

        20                  Senator Skelos, that completes the

        21       noncontroversial reading of the calendar.

        22                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        24       Senator Skelos.

        25                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,



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         1       would you please ring the bells to inform the

         2       members of the Senate that we are now on the

         3       controversial calendar.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    The

         5       Secretary will ring the bell.

         6                  Senator Skelos.

         7                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

         8       if we could now go to the controversial

         9       reading of the calendar.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    The

        11       Secretary will read.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        13       18, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 237, an

        14       act to amend the Penal Law and the Criminal

        15       Procedure Law.

        16                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:

        17       Explanation.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        19       Senator Morahan, an explanation has been

        20       requested.

        21                  SENATOR MORAHAN:    Thank you, Mr.

        22       President.

        23                  This bill amends the Penal Law and

        24       the Criminal Procedure Law to provide that if

        25       a person, while on parole or other conditional



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         1       release, commits a felony, that they would

         2       have to then complete the original felony

         3       sentence to the maximum and then serve the

         4       minimum of the new crime penalty before they

         5       can again be paroled or released.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

         7       Senator Hassell-Thompson.

         8                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

         9       you, Mr. President.

        10                  Just a very quick question, if

        11       Senator Morahan would yield.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        13       Senator Morahan, will you yield?

        14                  SENATOR MORAHAN:    Certainly, yes.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        16       Senator Hassell-Thompson.

        17                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

        18       you.

        19                  Senator Morahan, are there any

        20       changes in this bill from last year?

        21                  SENATOR MORAHAN:    No, ma'am.

        22                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Okay.

        23       I'll waive any other questions.

        24                  Thank you, Mr. President.  Thank

        25       you.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    Any

         2       other Senators wishing to be heard?

         3                  Then the debate is closed.

         4                  The Secretary will ring the bell,

         5       and the Sergeant-at-Arms will bring in the

         6       members to the chamber.

         7                  Read the last section.

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 8.  This

         9       act shall take effect on the first of

        10       November.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    Call

        12       the roll.

        13                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    The

        15       Secretary will announce the results.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Those voting in

        17       the negative on Calendar Number 18 are

        18       Senators Andrews, Duane, Hassell-Thompson,

        19       Montgomery, and Parker.

        20                  Those Senators absent from voting

        21       on Calendar Number 18 are Senators Johnson and

        22       Stavisky.

        23                  Ayes, 52.  Nays, 5.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    The

        25       bill is passed.



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         1                  The Secretary will read.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         3       21, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 312, an

         4       act to amend the Penal Law.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

         6       Senator Sabini.

         7                  SENATOR SABINI:    Mr. President,

         8       if the sponsor would yield for a question.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        10       Senator Saland, will you yield to a question?

        11                  SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

        12       President.  As soon as I can get my colleague

        13       to my right to sit down and not whisper in my

        14       ear.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        16       Senator Sabini.

        17                  SENATOR SABINI:    Thank you, Mr.

        18       President.  I'd like to ask the sponsor to

        19       clarify for me the intent or the actual

        20       implication of the bill.

        21                  This bill came to Codes and not

        22       Education, so I didn't have a chance to

        23       reference the Vehicle and Traffic Law that it

        24       refers to.  But it is my understanding that

        25       right now --



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         1                  SENATOR SALAND:    Senator Sabini,

         2       can I just ask for your indulgence.

         3                  I welcome Senator Goodman back to

         4       the chamber, but there's a little bit of a din

         5       over here, making it hard for me to hear

         6       Senator Sabini.  Thank you.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

         8       Senator Sabini.

         9                  SENATOR SABINI:    I'm interested

        10       in the application of the Vehicle and Traffic

        11       Law here.  And since it is my understanding

        12       that currently if a school bus is parked on

        13       school grounds, it is part of school grounds.

        14                  Does this bill address a school bus

        15       moving?  Since in some cases a school bus off

        16       school grounds would be more of a fertile

        17       place with less supervision than a school bus

        18       on school grounds.

        19                  SENATOR SALAND:    This is intended

        20       to address the school bus that is somewhere

        21       beyond the "drug-free school zone" boundaries

        22       that surround our schools.

        23                  The long and short of it, Senator

        24       Sabini, is that this is a bill that was

        25       recommended to me several years ago by a local



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         1       official in my Senate district who has since

         2       passed away.  And it just seemed to make a

         3       heck of a lot of sense.  We try to protect our

         4       children within the drug-free school zones,

         5       and it just seems a logical extension to say

         6       if in fact they're in transit in a school bus,

         7       they're entitled to the same protection.

         8                  SENATOR SABINI:    Mr. President,

         9       if I could ask just a follow-up to the

        10       sponsor.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        12       Senator Saland, do you continue to yield?

        13                  SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

        14       President.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        16       Senator Sabini.

        17                  SENATOR SABINI:    I agree with the

        18       sponsor's assertion.  My question is, does

        19       this bill do it, in effect, anywhere where a

        20       school bus is, is this applicable?

        21                  SENATOR SALAND:    I'm sorry,

        22       Senator?

        23                  SENATOR SABINI:    Does this law

        24       apply no matter where a school bus is?

        25                  SENATOR SALAND:    If it's being



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         1       used for school purposes, if it's sitting in

         2       front of somebody's driveway waiting for a

         3       student to get on the bus, whether it's in

         4       transit, if it's part of its regular and

         5       ordinary duties, the intention is is that it

         6       applies.

         7                  SENATOR SABINI:    Mr. President,

         8       if the sponsor would yield once again for

         9       another question.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        11       Senator Saland, do you continue to yield?

        12                  SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, Mr.

        13       President.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        15       Senator Sabini.

        16                  SENATOR SABINI:    Just in reading

        17       the bill, halfway down it talks about a

        18       thousand feet off of a school line.  And that

        19       was really where our confusion was, in that if

        20       the bus is beyond a thousand feet, which is

        21       less than a quarter of a mile, does this law

        22       apply?

        23                  Because some of us agree with you,

        24       we want tough penalties and tough laws on

        25       people that deal drugs to our children.



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         1                  SENATOR SALAND:    Well, there are

         2       two subsections to the bill.  And the language

         3       that you're interested in is placed in

         4       Subsection A.  And if you read what's included

         5       in A, there -- that -- what is included in A,

         6       if you then look at the conclusion, it says

         7       "or," and "or" leads into your 1,000 foot

         8       context for --

         9                  SENATOR SABINI:    So it's

        10       either/or?

        11                  SENATOR SALAND:    Yes.

        12                  SENATOR SABINI:    Okay.  Thank

        13       you, Mr. President.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    Any

        15       other Senator wishing to be heard on the bill?

        16                  Senator Onorato.

        17                  SENATOR ONORATO:    Would the

        18       sponsor yield for another question?

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        20       Senator Saland, will you yield?

        21                  SENATOR SALAND:    Yes.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        23       Senator Onorato.

        24                  SENATOR ONORATO:    Senator Saland,

        25       does the school bus have to have students on



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         1       it for this to apply?

         2                  SENATOR SALAND:    The school bus

         3       has to be engaged in whatever would be part of

         4       its ordinary and normal activities.  If in

         5       fact -- I guess I could conjure up a scenario.

         6       If -- I'm trying to conjure up a scenario.

         7                  If in fact it was parked, again

         8       waiting for a student to get on, and there

         9       were some personnel that were on, whether they

        10       were bus assistants or attendants, and they

        11       were engaged in drug trafficking, I would

        12       think it could be applicable.

        13                  But again, it would have to be

        14       something that occurs during the ordinary

        15       course of the operation of the school bus in

        16       school business.

        17                  SENATOR ONORATO:    Thank you.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    Any

        19       other Senator wish to be heard?

        20                  Senator Diaz.

        21                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Thank you, Mr.

        22       President.  If my colleague Senator Onorato

        23       will yield for a question, please.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        25       Senator Onorato, will you yield?



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         1                  SENATOR ONORATO:    I yield.

         2                  SENATOR DIAZ:    It was not clear

         3       to me when you asked the question, and also

         4       Senator Sabini, in questioning the distance of

         5       the school bus of being on the property of a

         6       school and being considered as a school

         7       grounds.

         8                  It is -- it is -- are you saying --

         9       just for my benefit, are you saying that we

        10       would allow a school bus to be used as a

        11       drug -- to use drugs in school buses if that

        12       bus is not close to school?

        13                  SENATOR ONORATO:    No, Senator,

        14       you misinterpreted my question.

        15                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Please explain to

        16       me.

        17                  SENATOR ONORATO:    My question

        18       was, will this law apply if the school bus is

        19       empty of students.  In other words, the bus

        20       driver may have already completed his route

        21       and may be on his way back to the garage with

        22       no students or any other school personnel on

        23       it.

        24                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Mr. President,

        25       would the Senator yield.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

         2       Senator Onorato, will you continue to yield?

         3                  SENATOR ONORATO:    I'll be happy

         4       to yield on my bill.

         5                  (Laughter.)

         6                  SENATOR DIAZ:    So if the school

         7       bus is empty and the driver already left all

         8       the students and the driver is coming back

         9       home, would it be okay, would it be good

        10       enough so then they could use drugs in it?

        11                  SENATOR ONORATO:    No, it's not

        12       okay.  But I want to know if the law will

        13       apply if it's empty.

        14                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Thank you, Mr.

        15       President.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    Any

        17       other Senator wish to be heard?

        18                  Debate is closed.

        19                  The Secretary will ring the bill.

        20       The Sergeant-at-Arms will bring the members

        21       into the chamber.

        22                  Read the last section.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        24       act shall take effect on the first of

        25       November.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    Call

         2       the roll.

         3                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

         5       Announce the results.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

         7                  Those Senators absent from voting

         8       on Calendar Number 21 are Senators Johnson and

         9       Stavisky.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    The

        11       bill is passed.

        12                  The Secretary will read.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        14       28, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 183, an

        15       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

        16       establishing definitions.

        17                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:

        18       Explanation.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        20       Senator Balboni, an explanation has been

        21       requested.

        22                  SENATOR BALBONI:    Thank you, Mr.

        23       President.

        24                  This is a bill that we have visited

        25       beforehand but, I would argue, could not be



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         1       more timely.  As you will recall, in the

         2       Governor's State of the State address he

         3       outlined several criminal justice initiatives,

         4       and one of the initiatives he talked about was

         5       the creation of a cyberterrorism crime in this

         6       state.  That is what this bill does.

         7                  But it also does some things that I

         8       think are crucial and obvious.  The computer

         9       laws in the State of New York were last

        10       significantly changed in 1986.  It's almost 20

        11       years since we have updated our computer

        12       crimes.

        13                  And to give you just how different

        14       our world is today, back then, most of the

        15       computers that were in our homes and our

        16       schools were not connected to the Internet.

        17       Now all our computers are connected to the

        18       Internet.

        19                  I have some information to share

        20       with my colleagues.  USA Today did a study

        21       back in November of last year, and all they

        22       did was they took six computers and they

        23       merely hooked them up to the Internet, and

        24       they let them run.  And they saw whether or

        25       not there would be any type of attacks or an



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         1       attempted intrusions.

         2                  Here are the numbers that came out

         3       as a result of this little experiment.  From

         4       September 10th to September 25th, online

         5       intruders made 305,000 attempts to break in to

         6       six unguarded computers.  The total attacks

         7       averaged about 300 per day.

         8                  Now, these attacks can range from

         9       anything from the attempted introduction of a

        10       worm or a virus in your computer or to the

        11       attempt to take over your computer to use it

        12       in a subsequent attack, what we refer to as a

        13       "denial of service" attack.

        14                  What this bill does is it sets up a

        15       revamping of the criminal justice laws as it

        16       relates to computer intrusion crimes, and it

        17       creates a cyberterrorism crime for the State

        18       of New York.

        19                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        21       Senator Schneiderman.

        22                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

        23       Mr. President.  Briefly on the bill.

        24                  The -- my concern with this

        25       legislation I expressed before.  And I would



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         1       urge the sponsor that I think everyone in this

         2       house agrees that the laws in this area need

         3       to be updated.  Everyone agrees that

         4       cyberterrorism, particularly where it relates

         5       to things like power plants and the water

         6       supply that rely on software, is an important

         7       issue.

         8                  The difficulty I have is, as with

         9       the last version, what we have here is an

        10       incredibly overbroad definition of

        11       cyberterrorism.  And I would urge that a

        12       one-house bill doesn't help make anyone any

        13       safer from cyberterrorism.

        14                  If we want to really move forward

        15       and make this a law, we're going to have to do

        16       something about the definition, which creates

        17       a Class B felony for anyone who is guilty of

        18       any of the misdemeanors enumerated in this

        19       statute "with the intent to affect the conduct

        20       of a unit of government."

        21                  That means that if you are engaged

        22       in computer intrusion in the third degree,

        23       which means -- could mean you wilfully use a

        24       computer without authorization to influence

        25       the conduct of a unit of government, you're



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         1       guilty of a B felony.  So if you make

         2       unauthorized use of someone's computer to send

         3       an email to President Bush opposing his

         4       proposal to raise copayments by veterans for

         5       health care by $250 a year, you're guilty of a

         6       B felony.

         7                  It is an incredibly broad

         8       definition.  And my suggestion to the sponsor,

         9       as I did suggest last year as well, is that a

        10       little bit of editing and a little bit of work

        11       could make this a statute that would be

        12       something that we could move forward, I

        13       believe, even in the other house.

        14                  As it is drafted now, I think it

        15       really contains what amounts to a poison pill.

        16       You can't make every misdemeanor a B felony

        17       just because it was done to affect the conduct

        18       of a unit of government.  That could mean

        19       trying to affect the decision of a school

        20       district whether to have a prom.

        21                  I mean, you know, there are lots of

        22       things that are done by email now, lots of

        23       things that are done through computer

        24       networks.  And this is just a -- the

        25       escalation of a penalty into a major felony



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         1       that is completely inappropriate given the

         2       breadth of the definition.

         3                  So I supported this is in the past

         4       with the view that we were going to move

         5       forward and edit it and try and get a statute

         6       actually passed.  I would urge the sponsor,

         7       though, that, you know, we've got time.  Let's

         8       do some editing now.  Let's make this a

         9       definition that could get somewhere in the

        10       other house and come up with a cyberterrorism

        11       law as opposed to letting another year go by

        12       passing a one-house bill.

        13                  I will support the bill again, Mr.

        14       President, with this ongoing request that

        15       we're never going to get anywhere with this

        16       until we narrow the definition.

        17                  Thank you.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        19       Senator Klein.

        20                  SENATOR KLEIN:    On the bill, Mr.

        21       President.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    On

        23       the bill.

        24                  SENATOR KLEIN:    While I applaud

        25       Senator Balboni's effort to punish people who



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         1       commit various acts of cyberterrorism, I think

         2       what we're doing is, first, we're not

         3       addressing the problem and we're not doing

         4       anything to prevent the problem.

         5                  I did an investigation last year

         6       which showed our own state computers in

         7       various state agencies that are holding very,

         8       very important information -- like tax

         9       information, our records from the Department

        10       of Motor Vehicles -- were hacked into three

        11       times in a three-month period.

        12                  And so we're really doing very,

        13       very little within our own state within this

        14       present administration to protect very

        15       pertinent information from cyberthieves.

        16                  Also, one of the pieces of

        17       legislation that I passed last year in the

        18       Assembly would do something that's very, very

        19       simple and, again, go a long way towards

        20       preventing the ramifications of being a victim

        21       of a cyberthief and identity fraud, and that's

        22       to notify individuals if their pertinent

        23       information is taken off a state computer or a

        24       private computer.

        25                  Believe it or not, we have no



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         1       policy and there is not one corporation in the

         2       United States that has an affirmative program,

         3       a program within their own company to notify

         4       people if they're the victim of a cyberthief.

         5                  And I don't have to tell you, if

         6       your information is taken -- your Social

         7       Security number, your address -- what type of

         8       havoc that can cause with your own finances.

         9                  So I look forward to doing a lot

        10       more on this issue, and I applaud Senator

        11       Balboni in actually punishing the people who

        12       commit these crimes.  But at the same time, I

        13       think we need to do a lot more towards

        14       preventing this crime and actually recognizing

        15       that it exists in the State of New York.

        16                  Thank you.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        18       Senator Krueger.

        19                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        20       Mr. President.  If the sponsor would please

        21       yield.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        23       Senator Balboni, will you yield?

        24                  SENATOR BALBONI:    Yes.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:



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         1       Senator Krueger.

         2                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         3                  Senator Balboni, I also find much

         4       in this bill that I can be comfortable with.

         5       Some concerns, technical.  But two issues

         6       stuck in my head this year that I didn't ask

         7       you about last year.

         8                  Would this apply to ATM machines?

         9       When I read the definition of the bill about

        10       what a computer is, I believe it would.  I was

        11       wondering --

        12                  SENATOR BALBONI:    I believe it

        13       would also.

        14                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Okay.  So I

        15       suppose a follow-up question, Mr. President.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        17       Senator Balboni, will you continue to yield?

        18                  SENATOR BALBONI:    Yes, sir.  Mr.

        19       President, I yield.

        20                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        21                  Is there any reason for us to think

        22       we ought to be reviewing this with the Banking

        23       Department, on the theory that it would also

        24       apply to ATM machines, which are under their

        25       auspices?



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         1                  SENATOR BALBONI:    Mr. President,

         2       through you, I have discussed this bill with

         3       our Department of Homeland Security, Mark

         4       Cohen, who's the chief counsel.  We have sent

         5       this over for comment and review, and they, I

         6       believe, have talked to not only DCJS but also

         7       folks in the other agencies, including

         8       Insurance and Banking.

         9                  Just on that point, you know, this

        10       is a very coordinated approach that a lot of

        11       people don't know about.  There's actually a

        12       group -- and I don't know what the acronym

        13       stands for, but it's called FIPIC [ph], and it

        14       talks about a federal, state and private

        15       partnership that actually takes the insurance

        16       industry, the banking industry, all of the

        17       financial industries and tries to reach out

        18       and give them governmental templates for them

        19       to utilize in their own businesses to prevent,

        20       again, these types of attacks.

        21                  So there is the involvement of the

        22       financial community.  Perhaps not as focused

        23       on the bill as -- on the language that we have

        24       here, but certainly in the general concepts of

        25       how do we protect against cyberterrorism



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         1       attacks.

         2                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         3                  Mr. President, if the sponsor would

         4       continue to yield, please.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

         6       Senator Balboni, do you continue to yield?

         7                  SENATOR BALBONI:    Yes, I do, Mr.

         8       President.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        10       Senator Krueger.

        11                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Can I

        12       assume that also -- because you are right, the

        13       definition of what is on computer is expanding

        14       every day.  Would this bill also apply to

        15       video lottery terminals and lottery machines,

        16       since they're also --

        17                  SENATOR BALBONI:    Mr. President,

        18       through you.  To the extent that any

        19       program -- I'm sorry, any -- let's see how to

        20       describe it -- any platform is computer-based

        21       and you would attempt to get into that

        22       platform, that operating platform or computing

        23       platform, yes, in fact that would fall under

        24       the definitions.  Which are in the first part

        25       of the bill.



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         1                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Right.

         2       Thank you.

         3                  Mr. President, if the sponsor would

         4       please yield for another question.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

         6       Senator Balboni?

         7                  SENATOR BALBONI:    I do, Mr.

         8       President.

         9                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        10       This clarification is very helpful, because I

        11       think it both broadens my understanding of the

        12       issues we're talking about and also where we

        13       might need to go in the future in the state.

        14                  So would this also, I assume, then,

        15       apply to voting machines if the State of

        16       New York continues down the road of ending up

        17       choosing machines that are attached to the

        18       Internet in some way, or computer-driven?

        19                  SENATOR BALBONI:    Mr. President,

        20       through you, I don't believe that there's any

        21       prohibition or restriction that it must be

        22       connected to the Internet.  We focus on that

        23       as a relatively new phenomenon relative to the

        24       initial amendments of the statute itself.  But

        25       we don't restrict it to the Internet use.



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         1                  Should you have a computer issue,

         2       you try to access it without authorization,

         3       that would fall under the definitions of the

         4       bill.

         5                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         6       Thank you very much.

         7                  Mr. President, briefly on the bill.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

         9       Senator Krueger, on the bill.

        10                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        11       Well, I share my colleague Senator

        12       Schneiderman's concerns that perhaps the

        13       definitions are changing every day and we need

        14       to think through what some of the impacts are.

        15                  To be honest, I am very glad to

        16       hear that this would apply to ATM crimes,

        17       which is a very real issue, as Senator Farley

        18       knows from the Banking Committee.  It would

        19       apply to video lottery terminals and lottery

        20       machines, which is also, whether anyone likes

        21       it or not, a growing business in the state of

        22       New York, and we need to assure that we are

        23       protecting citizens from any kind of hacking

        24       into that system.

        25                  And, frankly, perhaps most



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         1       importantly, voting machines.  Because as the

         2       President Pro Tem certainly knows, we're

         3       dealing with questions of where we go with

         4       voting machines in this state, and there are

         5       great concerns about our failure to be

         6       exploring machines that are safe enough and

         7       secure enough to be -- to have our votes be

         8       counted on them.

         9                  And the fact is that research shows

        10       that we do more to protect ATM machines and

        11       more to protect video gambling machines than

        12       we currently are doing in this country to

        13       protect voting machines.  So I'm glad to see

        14       that if this bill became law, we'd be

        15       expanding the definitions of oversight and

        16       evaluation of all these new computer systems

        17       that are affecting our lives.

        18                  So while I still don't know that I

        19       understand all of this bill completely, I

        20       respect the Senator's efforts on these issues

        21       and think that in fact the impact is far

        22       broader than even just homeland security.  So

        23       I will be voting for the bill.

        24                  Thank you very much for the

        25       explanation.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

         2       Senator Balboni.

         3                  SENATOR BALBONI:    Yes, Mr.

         4       President, on the bill.  I wanted to address

         5       Senator Schneiderman's concerns.

         6                  I've had a chance to work with many

         7       people, Michael Fallon one of them, and we did

         8       consider the change in the definition.  The

         9       difficulty, frankly, is that Assemblyman

        10       Lentol introduced this bill last year.  I

        11       believe that he's going to be doing it again

        12       this year.  We're going to be negotiating that

        13       definition.

        14                  The difficulty here is that we have

        15       to start from a starting point.  And the

        16       starting point is the definition of terrorism

        17       that we use in the Penal Law that we passed in

        18       2001.  The difficulty, of course, is in that

        19       definition you have the utilization of

        20       assassination, kidnapping, or murder as the

        21       active components of an act of terrorism.

        22       Well, you don't have that with computer crimes

        23       or cyberterrorism.

        24                  And so that's, frankly, the

        25       difficulty, the definitional difficulty.  In



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         1       other words, would you say it's only

         2       cyberterrorism if someone died as a result of

         3       the act?  You know, and so we're actually

         4       negotiating that.

         5                  But at the same point in time, I

         6       think we're going to see initiatives from the

         7       Governor that's going to talk about this

         8       specific act.

         9                  And to Senator Klein's point, this

        10       is the first of a series of bills that we will

        11       be putting out that will talk about the new

        12       assault on the American public through the

        13       computer.  Whether it is spyware, whether it

        14       is other computer crimes or activities, we're

        15       going to be hopefully be rolling out a lot of

        16       pretty progressive stuff.  I'm working with

        17       Assemblyman Morelle on that.  And I think that

        18       you'll like what we have to say about that.

        19                  So some of the things that Senator

        20       Klein pointed out are some of the things we'll

        21       be looking at also.

        22                  So I want to thank you for all your

        23       attention to this one.  This is a good concept

        24       we need in the state.

        25                  Thank you very much.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    Any

         2       other Senator wish to be heard?

         3                  The Secretary will ring the bell,

         4       and the Sergeant-at-Arms will bring the

         5       members into the chamber.

         6                  Read the last section.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 12.  This

         8       act shall take effect on the first of

         9       November.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    Call

        11       the roll.

        12                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

        14       the negative on Calendar Number 28 are -- is

        15       Senator Duane.

        16                  Those Senators absent from voting

        17       on Calendar Number 28 are Senators Johnson and

        18       Stavisky.

        19                  Ayes, 56.  Nays, 1.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    The

        21       bill is passed.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        23       46, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        24       Print 1815, an act to amend the Insurance Law.

        25                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:



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         1       Explanation, please.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    An

         3       explanation has been requested, Senator

         4       Seward.

         5                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes, Mr.

         6       President.

         7                  The bill before us deals with some

         8       clarifying provisions of Chapter 1 of the Laws

         9       of 2002.  And if you would recall, the

        10       legislation that we enacted back in 2002

        11       allowed the Empire Blue Cross Blue Shield to

        12       convert to a for-profit entity.  And also, as

        13       part of that, it was created the Public Asset

        14       Fund as well as the charitable foundation.

        15                  And this legislation does two

        16       things.  Number one, it extends to the members

        17       of the board of these two entities

        18       indemnification under the Public Officers Law;

        19       and, number two, it clarifies that the Public

        20       Asset Fund and its board shall not be

        21       considered a state agency.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        23       Senator Krueger.

        24                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        25       Mr. President.  If the sponsor would please



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         1       yield.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

         3       Senator Seward, will you yield to a question?

         4                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Certainly, Mr.

         5       President.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

         7       Senator Krueger.

         8                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         9       Thank you very much.

        10                  The sponsor discusses that there

        11       are two parts to the bill, and one is to

        12       indemnify the officers of the board under the

        13       Public Officers Law.  Am I correct that that

        14       in-general indemnification under the Public

        15       Officers Law is for entities that are in some

        16       way the government or a part of the government

        17       or affiliated with the government, as opposed

        18       to private entities?

        19                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Well, Mr.

        20       President, it's not uncommon to extend this

        21       type of indemnification under the Public

        22       Officers Law to such entities as this board of

        23       the Public Asset Fund.  Because we do it for

        24       the State Insurance Fund.  We -- also a number

        25       of nonprofit entities in the state, their



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         1       boards are indemnified under these provisions

         2       of law even though they are not considered

         3       state agencies.  So they obviously do public

         4       good on behalf of the state, as does this

         5       entity.

         6                  And I would also point out that the

         7       laws of Chapter 1 of 2002 offered such

         8       indemnification.

         9                  However, as you may know, there's

        10       some litigation involving that law we passed

        11       in 2002.  And the passage of this bill today,

        12       should it be enacted, would mean that

        13       regardless of what happens in the court case

        14       involving the original law, that the board

        15       would be able to proceed with indemnification.

        16       And that, frankly, is necessary in order to

        17       allow for any further stock sales and also to

        18       maintain the stock price.

        19                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Mr.

        20       President, if the sponsor would please

        21       continue to yield.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        23       Senator Seward, will you continue to yield?

        24                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:



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         1       Senator Krueger.

         2                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you

         3       very much.  I appreciate the response on that

         4       part of the bill.

         5                  The other part of the bill would

         6       provide that this Public Asset Fund should no

         7       longer be considered part of the state or its

         8       agencies, even though, as you've already

         9       raised, there is litigation still in process

        10       that may change the outcome of what would

        11       happen with the proceeds of a sale of this

        12       asset fund, which would then no longer be

        13       considered part of the state or its agencies

        14       if this bill passed.

        15                  Is that correct on my part?  Is

        16       that a correct analysis?

        17                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Mr. President, I

        18       had difficulty hearing the question.  If we

        19       could have a little more quiet, and if you

        20       could just repeat the question.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    If we

        22       could get the house quiet.

        23                  And it would be helpful, Senator

        24       Krueger, if you would be kind enough to repeat

        25       the question.



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         1                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    I will

         2       repeat and try to be clearer, actually.

         3                  So the second part of this law,

         4       which we didn't discuss yet, would clarify

         5       that this Public Asset Fund would no longer be

         6       a part of the state or its agencies, it would

         7       become a private entity.  Although you are

         8       correct, there is still litigation moving

         9       through the courts as to what might ultimately

        10       might or might not happen to the distribution

        11       of funds from this sale.

        12                  Is it a concern or -- one, am I

        13       correct in my reading?  And, two, should it be

        14       a concern to us at all that this would then be

        15       a private entity but we still don't know the

        16       outcome of a legal decision and we, in fact,

        17       then might have liability because we

        18       underwrote them, so to speak, under our

        19       liability law?

        20                  There's a complication, it seems to

        21       me, between public role/private role and

        22       litigation.  Is there any concern you have

        23       about the confusion that might occur after

        24       litigation was resolved because of these

        25       changing patterns of ownership?



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

         2       Senator Seward.

         3                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Mr. President,

         4       I'm very comfortable with the provisions in

         5       the bill.

         6                  But let me explain further.  The --

         7       I would make one correction to what Senator

         8       Krueger said.  She said that they would be

         9       considered no longer to be a state agency.  It

        10       was never intended to be considered a state

        11       agency.  And that was -- we're really not

        12       changing anything.  We are clarifying that it

        13       could not -- cannot be considered a state

        14       agency or a direct state entity.

        15                  So that is just a -- really a

        16       clarifying provision versus a major change in

        17       law.

        18                  And, frankly, it's important to

        19       move forward with that distinction for I think

        20       two very important reasons.  We as a state

        21       have a great deal at stake in the sale of the

        22       Empire Blue Cross stock as it proceeds.

        23       They're scheduled stock sales.  And, frankly,

        24       we have -- we're looking to fund a good

        25       portion of the HCRA through the proceeds of



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         1       those sales.

         2                  So I think the state and, more

         3       importantly, those that are -- very much need

         4       the services and the medical and health care

         5       that is derived through HCRA, it's important

         6       that we get as much money from the sale of

         7       this stock as possible.  So it's important to

         8       keep that stock price up and not have any

         9       impediments to sale of the stock.

        10                  And secondly, along the same line,

        11       it's important that we do not jeopardize the

        12       Empire Blue Cross license under the national

        13       Blue Cross Blue Shield Association.  Because I

        14       question very much that they would allow

        15       Empire to continue to be -- use that Blue

        16       Cross name if in fact there was any thought

        17       that they were a state entity directly.

        18                  So for those two reasons, I'm very

        19       comfortable with the bill that it really does

        20       merely clarify provisions of the 2002 law and

        21       will in fact help us in our efforts to fully

        22       fund HCRA.

        23                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Mr.

        24       President, if the sponsor would yield to one

        25       additional question.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

         2       Senator Seward, do you continue to yield?

         3                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Certainly.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

         5       Senator Krueger.

         6                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         7       I appreciate your clarification and educating

         8       me about this.

         9                  So again, if I read this and listen

        10       to your explanations, under this change we,

        11       the State of New York, wouldn't have the right

        12       to review their books because they wouldn't

        13       be, quote, unquote, a public entity or a

        14       public asset fund as we have understood it up

        15       until now, where the Comptroller's office or

        16       the Legislature or the executives had the

        17       ability to review the finances of the entity.

        18                  So we would not, after passage of

        19       this bill, have the right to review the books,

        20       but we would still be liable as the government

        21       for defense and indemnification of their

        22       officers and their employees?  Is that

        23       correct?

        24                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Well, Mr.

        25       President, under the existing law, the board



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         1       of this Public Asset Fund is subject to

         2       consultation with the Division of the Budget.

         3       Plus the Comptroller is the -- they do -- the

         4       Comptroller does actually take care of the

         5       accounts, the money.

         6                  So there is some degree of, shall

         7       we say, state oversight on that very limited

         8       basis.  So it's not as if there's not some

         9       degree of at least looking at the books.

        10                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        11       Mr. President.

        12                  Briefly on the bill.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

        14       Senator Krueger, on the bill.

        15                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        16                  I do have some concern that we

        17       would be continually responsible for defending

        18       and indemnifying the officers and employees of

        19       this company prior to the sale without having

        20       necessarily the same oversights we do over

        21       other entities of the State of New York.

        22                  I think one of the things we talk

        23       about so often in this Legislature is the

        24       importance of, again, bringing the dollars

        25       back on the books.  We finally got HCRA --



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         1       well, we think we may have HCRA back on the

         2       budget, if it moves forward this year.  And as

         3       Senator Seward talked about, now this would be

         4       potentially a funding stream for HCRA,

         5       although I think that's still open for

         6       interpretation by some people.

         7                  And yet we'd be removing in some

         8       way our oversight powers and our review and

         9       accountability powers for this what may be --

        10       $2 billion is a number I heard earlier today.

        11                  So I will vote for the bill,

        12       although I am not sure whether the other house

        13       is moving forward on such bill, but with great

        14       caution and concern over the precedent we

        15       might be making here today that we would again

        16       be removing legislatively our oversight

        17       authority over large sums of the public's

        18       money and, in this situation, even leaving

        19       ourselves liable for the responsibilities if

        20       something goes wrong, without having had a

        21       direct role in overseeing the operation of

        22       this set of funds or the sale therein.  And

        23       that ultimately, of course, there's the

        24       question of how those funds are used.

        25                  So out of respect for Senator



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         1       Seward, and the concerns that if we don't act

         2       quickly we may face a serious problem, I will

         3       vote for it.  But I think we should all be

         4       thinking carefully about what this is a

         5       precedent and what some of the dangers and

         6       risks from this action might be.

         7                  So thank you, Mr. President.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:

         9       Senator Hannon.

        10                  SENATOR HANNON:    Yes, Mr.

        11       President.

        12                  I think Senator Seward has

        13       comprehensively and thoroughly just addressed

        14       the questions, but I just want to add, in

        15       terms of oversight, that this entity is a

        16       publicly traded corporation, it's subject to

        17       all of the filing requirements established

        18       under the SEC and the heightened filing

        19       requirements required by the Sarbanes-Oxley.

        20                  In addition, as a publicly traded

        21       insurance corporation, it's regulated by the

        22       Superintendent of Insurance, in the same

        23       fashion that we regulate the other publicly

        24       traded health insurance corporations.

        25                  So that there is a great deal of



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         1       information just in the same way we have with

         2       the other corporations.  So we're on an equal

         3       footing with them.  There's no less, there's

         4       not been complaints we don't have the

         5       oversight with the other corporations.

         6       They're on an equal footing.  We know what's

         7       happening with their books.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    Any

         9       other Senator wish to be heard?

        10                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

        11       The Sergeant-at-Arms will bring the members

        12       into the chamber.

        13                  Read the last section.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    Call

        17       the roll.

        18                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

        20       the negative on Calendar Number 46 is Senator

        21       Duane.  Ayes, 56.  Nays, 1.

        22                  Those Senators absent from voting

        23       on Calendar Number 46 are Senators Dilan,

        24       Johnson, and Stavisky.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    The



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         1       bill is passed.

         2                  Senator Skelos, that completes the

         3       controversial reading of the calendar.

         4                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

         5       is there any housekeeping at the desk?

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    No

         7       housekeeping, Senator.

         8                  SENATOR SKELOS:    There being no

         9       further business to come before the Senate, I

        10       move we stand adjourned until Wednesday,

        11       February 9th, at 11:00 a.m.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:    On

        13       motion, the Senate stands adjourned until

        14       Wednesday, February 9th, at 11:00 a.m.

        15                  (Whereupon, at 4:04 p.m., the

        16       Senate adjourned.)

        17

        18

        19

        20

        21

        22

        23

        24

        25



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