Regular Session - March 7, 2005

                                                            772



         1                 NEW YORK STATE SENATE

         2

         3

         4                THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

         5

         6

         7

         8

         9                   ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                     March 7, 2005

        11                       3:15 p.m.

        12

        13

        14                    REGULAR SESSION

        15

        16

        17

        18  SENATOR RAYMOND A. MEIER, Acting President

        19  STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

        20

        21

        22

        23

        24

        25



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         1                 P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

         3       Senate will come to order.

         4                  May I ask everyone present to

         5       please rise and join me in the Pledge of

         6       Allegiance to the Flag.

         7                  (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

         8       the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        10       invocation will be offered by the Reverend

        11       Peter G. Young.

        12                  REVEREND YOUNG:    Thank you,

        13       Senator.

        14                  Dear Lord, we ask Your presence and

        15       Your blessings on this Senate chamber.  We

        16       have come to express our concern about the

        17       welfare of our community and its constituents,

        18       to learn from each other, to grow in spirit

        19       and in character, to find Your will in our

        20       lives and in our neighborhoods.

        21                  We thank You for the opportunity in

        22       this Senate chamber to assemble ourselves at

        23       any time and in any place to discuss our

        24       concerns as citizens.  We are mindful that

        25       many in our world do not enjoy such freedom.



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         1                  Grant us the wisdom to carry out

         2       Your decisions within Your will, and bless us

         3       to continue to conduct our business with

         4       dignity and sensitivity to all.

         5                  Amen.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Reading

         7       of the Journal.

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

         9       Friday, March 4, the Senate met pursuant to

        10       adjournment.  The Journal of Thursday, March

        11       3, was read and approved.  On motion, Senate

        12       adjourned.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

        14       objection, the Journal stands approved as

        15       read.

        16                  Presentation of petitions.

        17                  Messages from the Assembly.

        18                  Senator Schneiderman.

        19                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Mr.

        20       President, the Senate received a resolution

        21       from the Assembly advising the members of the

        22       Senate that the Senate and Assembly will meet

        23       at noon tomorrow in the Assembly chamber to

        24       elect Regents for the University of the State

        25       of New York, pursuant to Section 202 of the



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         1       Education Law.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

         3       Schneiderman, I'm informed by the Secretary

         4       that we have received the communication and it

         5       is filed in the Journal Clerk's office.

         6                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

         7       Mr. President.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Thank

         9       you, Senator Schneiderman.

        10                  Messages from the Governor.

        11                  Reports of standing committees.

        12                  Reports of select committees.

        13                  Communications and reports from

        14       state officers.

        15                  Motions and resolutions.

        16                  Senator Skelos.

        17                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

        18       if we could go to the noncontroversial reading

        19       of the calendar.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        21       Secretary will conduct the noncontroversial

        22       reading of the calendar.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        24       49, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 769,

        25       an act to amend the General Business Law, in



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         1       relation to renewals.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

         3       last section.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect on the 60th day.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         7       roll.

         8                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 41.  Nays,

        10       1.  Senator Meier recorded in the negative.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        12       is passed.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        14       82, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 2148,

        15       an act to amend the General Obligations Law,

        16       in relation to the statutory short form.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        18       last section.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

        20       act shall take effect on the first of January.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        22       roll.

        23                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 44.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



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         1       is passed.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         3       86, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 977, an

         4       act to amend the Workers' Compensation Law, in

         5       relation to the direct deposit.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

         7       last section.

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        11       roll.

        12                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 44.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        17       94, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 479, an

        18       act to amend the Penal Law, the Executive Law,

        19       and the Correction Law, in relation to

        20       prohibiting.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        22       last section.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

        24       act shall take effect on the first of

        25       September.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         2       roll.

         3                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 46.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         6       is passed.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         8       95, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 480, an

         9       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

        10       sexual assault against a child.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        12       last section.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

        14       act shall take effect on the first of

        15       November.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        17       roll.

        18                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 46.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        23       98, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 878, an

        24       act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in

        25       relation to police officer statements.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

         2       last section.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

         4       act --

         5                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

         6       aside.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         8       is laid aside.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        10       100, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 932, an

        11       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

        12       increasing the criminal penalties.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        14       last section.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 12.  This

        16       act shall take effect on the first of

        17       November.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        19       roll.

        20                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 46.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        23       is passed.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        25       103, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 1170, an



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         1       act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in

         2       relation to the period of limitation.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

         4       last section.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         8       roll.

         9                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 48.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        12       is passed.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        14       104, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 1513, an

        15       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

        16       endangering the welfare of a child.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        18       last section.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect on the first of

        21       November.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        23       roll.

        24                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 48.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         4       105, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 1517, an

         5       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

         6       establishing the crimes of attempting to lure

         7       or entice a child.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

         9       last section.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect on the first of

        12       November.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        14       roll.

        15                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 48.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        18       is passed.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        20       107, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 1521, an

        21       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

        22       assaults committed in the presence of certain

        23       children.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        25       last section.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect on the first of

         3       November.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         5       roll.

         6                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

         8       the negative on Calendar Number 107 are

         9       Senators Andrews, Hassell-Thompson, and

        10       Montgomery.  Ayes, 47.  Nays, 3.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        12       is passed.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        14       108, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 1619, an

        15       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

        16       consecutive sentences.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        18       last section.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect on the first of

        21       November.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        23       roll.

        24                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 50.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         4       125, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 1136, an

         5       act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

         6       relation to the allocation of replacement

         7       power.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

         9       last section.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        13       roll.

        14                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        16       Maziarz, to explain his vote.

        17                  SENATOR MAZIARZ:    Thank you very

        18       much, Mr. President.

        19                  This is an extremely important bill

        20       for economic development in all of Western

        21       New York.  There are approximately 44

        22       companies located in Niagara and Erie counties

        23       which employ in excess of 24,000 manufacturing

        24       employees.

        25                  I just want to publicly acknowledge



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         1       the work that Senator Volker, Senator Rath, my

         2       colleagues from Western New York -- Senator

         3       Stachowski -- have done on this bill.

         4                  But I especially want to thank the

         5       chairman of the Senate Energy Committee, who

         6       did an excellent job in shepherding this bill

         7       through the Energy Committee and educating us

         8       a whole lot about the replacement power

         9       process.  And it could not have been done

        10       without the good work of Senator Wright.

        11                  And Senator Spano, from Westchester

        12       County, played a very important role in making

        13       sure that this bill got to the floor today

        14       too.

        15                  Thank you, Mr. President.  I vote

        16       aye.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        18       Maziarz will be recorded in the affirmative.

        19                  Senator Rath, to explain her vote.

        20                  SENATOR RATH:    To explain my

        21       vote.

        22                  For those who might wonder what

        23       replacement power is, if you can imagine a

        24       powerhouse of a power project sliding down

        25       into the Niagara Gorge a number of years ago,



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         1       and the power that was lost to the companies

         2       that used that in order to be competitive.

         3       Because, after all, they were right there at

         4       the seat and the heart of where power was

         5       generated in New York State in those days.

         6                  And so replacement power became an

         7       item that was given to the companies who had

         8       power when the Schoellkopf plant slipped into

         9       the Niagara Gorge.  And so that has been an

        10       extraordinarily important part of the business

        11       plan of many companies in Western New York.

        12                  And thanks to everyone who made

        13       this a reality and made it happen, because

        14       there are a lot of people who will continue to

        15       work because companies will make decisions to

        16       expand, they will make decisions to move on

        17       and do more with their business plans as a

        18       result of maintaining this replacement power,

        19       which they've had almost since time

        20       immemorial, since that first Schoellkopf plant

        21       was built.

        22                  And the rates have gone up, but

        23       they have always been favorable to the

        24       companies who were the first companies on the

        25       Niagara Frontier who believed in this new



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         1       gimmick called electricity and put it into

         2       their buildings.

         3                  Thank you.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

         5       Rath will be recorded in the affirmative.

         6                  Senator Volker, to explain his

         7       vote.

         8                  SENATOR VOLKER:    Briefly, Mr.

         9       President.

        10                  I took a pretty severe beating on

        11       this bill at one point.  And I want to thank

        12       Senator Maziarz, who did an excellent job with

        13       this bill.  And I want to also thank Senator

        14       Wright, who worked very hard to make this a

        15       reality.

        16                  And also, in an attempt -- and by

        17       the way, this has always been the law.  It is

        18       under the federal charter.  It dates back

        19       to -- John Daly and myself worked on this

        20       many, many years ago, the late Senator John

        21       Daly.

        22                  The problem back in Buffalo was

        23       that they didn't really understand what this

        24       was completely all about.  And they also

        25       didn't realize that there's another 146



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         1       megawatts of power that has disappeared from

         2       Western New York because a number of plants

         3       have left the area.

         4                  They all, by the way, left in

         5       the -- before the last ten years, contrary to

         6       people's feeling lately.  We haven't been

         7       losing plants, thank God.

         8                  But I want to thank Senator Maziarz

         9       and Senator Wright for what they have done.

        10       And we still hope -- this bill we expect to

        11       pass the Assembly, and we also expect the next

        12       bill that was sponsored by Senator Wright,

        13       relating to the North Country, to also pass

        14       the Assembly.

        15                  I vote aye.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        17       Volker will be recorded in the affirmative.

        18                  Announce the results.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        23       126, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 1393, an

        24       act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in

        25       relation to the allocation of preservation



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         1       power.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

         3       last section.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         7       roll.

         8                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                  Senator Skelos, that completes the

        13       noncontroversial -- oh, I'm sorry.

        14                  Senator Wright.

        15                  SENATOR WRIGHT:    To explain my

        16       vote on the bill we just passed.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

        18       objection.  Senator Wright, to explain his

        19       vote.

        20                  SENATOR WRIGHT:    Let me first say

        21       that I'm very pleased that we were able to

        22       pass both pieces of legislation this

        23       afternoon.

        24                  As you all recognize, it was last

        25       session that we passed a combined bill that



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         1       had both provisions for Western and Northern

         2       New York together.  And that, unfortunately,

         3       was not taken up by the Assembly.  And they

         4       said to us:  We want separate bills.

         5                  So we have worked cooperatively

         6       with Senator Volker, Senator Maziarz,

         7       Senator Spano, and of course Senator Bruno,

         8       who shepherded both bills through this house

         9       so that we are in a position to deliver what

        10       the Assembly indicated they were seeking, and

        11       that was to provide parity, fairness and

        12       equity to both Western and Northern New York,

        13       which are homes to the largest generating

        14       hydrofacilities in the state.

        15                  They have paid the cost over the

        16       years in terms of lost property, lost taxes.

        17       And they're entitled to the energy, they're

        18       entitled to the jobs that you have put in

        19       statute.

        20                  Thank you very much.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        22       Wright is recorded in the affirmative, and the

        23       bill is passed.

        24                  Senator Schneiderman.

        25                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    To explain



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         1       my vote.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Without

         3       objection.  Senator Schneiderman, to explain

         4       his vote.

         5                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

         6       Mr. President.

         7                  I appreciate the effort that has

         8       gone into these bills.  I would like to note

         9       that energy costs are a major impediment to

        10       economic growth throughout New York State and

        11       that the Governor's proposed budget allocates

        12       only $75 million for a one-year extension of

        13       the Power for Jobs program.

        14                  I hope that we will -- and there

        15       have been meetings and proposed legislation in

        16       the past in this house and in the Assembly.

        17       But I hope this year we will take the

        18       opportunity to provide something other than

        19       uncertain one-year funding for piecemeal

        20       programs, and not simply limit our energy cost

        21       reduction efforts to certain geographic areas.

        22                  I think that the effort that has

        23       gone into these bills demonstrates how

        24       difficult it is even to operate on a piecemeal

        25       basis.  But throughout Central New York,



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         1       throughout the suburbs of New York City there

         2       is a need for low-cost power.  And the best

         3       way to address that is with a comprehensive

         4       set of programs particularly focusing on the

         5       Power for Jobs program.

         6                  I hope we will be able to do better

         7       than the Governor's proposal for a $75 million

         8       one-year shot in that critical program in this

         9       year's budget.

        10                  Thank you, Mr. President.  I vote

        11       in the affirmative.  And I hope we will have

        12       more bills like this to deal with as the

        13       session comes along.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        15       Schneiderman votes in the affirmative, and the

        16       bill is passed.

        17                  Senator Skelos, that completes the

        18       noncontroversial reading of the calendar.

        19                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Thank you,

        20       Mr. President.  If we could go to the

        21       controversial reading at this time.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        23       Secretary will conduct the controversial

        24       reading of the calendar.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



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         1       98, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 878, an

         2       act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

         3                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:

         4       Explanation.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

         6       Volker, an explanation has been requested.

         7                  SENATOR VOLKER:    Mr. President,

         8       this is a bill that passed last year and

         9       received some questioning.

        10                  What this bill does, very quickly,

        11       is to allow the testimony of a police officer

        12       which was taken under oath to be admitted in a

        13       grand jury proceeding as long as there is an

        14       affidavit in relation to it.

        15                  And I might add that there are

        16       certain restrictions.  If there was an

        17       adversarial examination of such officer

        18       previously conducted in regard to this

        19       offense, a transcript of that examination must

        20       be submitted.

        21                  And I pointed out last year that if

        22       the -- in the interests of justice, of course,

        23       any judge can order a person brought before

        24       the grand jury.  The idea of this is to try to

        25       avoid unnecessary expense.



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         1                  The second thing is, and probably

         2       the most important -- because I think most of

         3       the time the law enforcement officer will

         4       probably testify before the grand jury

         5       anyways -- is in relation to business records.

         6       And that's where the big savings is.

         7                  A lot of law enforcement officers

         8       are asked to come in and confirm business

         9       records.  And I did that myself many years

        10       ago.  You bring in a -- for instance, a -- I'm

        11       trying to think of something you bring in.  A

        12       copy of an accident report.  Or there's a

        13       whole series of things that you might bring

        14       in.

        15                  In this case, instead of doing

        16       that, you can give an affidavit, a sworn

        17       affidavit, relating to your connection with

        18       whatever that document is and whatever that

        19       accident report or whatever it is.

        20                  Savings on this could be very

        21       substantial.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        23       Schneiderman.

        24                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

        25       Mr. President.



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         1                  Would the sponsor yield for one

         2       brief question.

         3                  SENATOR VOLKER:    Certainly.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

         5       Volker, do you yield?

         6                  The Senator yields.

         7                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    What is

         8       the estimated cost saving from the portion of

         9       this bill that would eliminate the need in, as

        10       you pointed out, in some cases for police

        11       officers to testify as live witnesses in a

        12       grand jury?

        13                  SENATOR VOLKER:    The State Police

        14       estimates $150,000.

        15                  I think they're awfully

        16       conservative.  I would probably say close to a

        17       million dollars in total.  Because this is not

        18       just State Police officers, this is for law

        19       enforcement officers.

        20                  I would have to say that the

        21       overtime amounts -- and some police officers,

        22       by the way, are not particularly happy with

        23       this legislation, because obviously they make

        24       quite a bit of money in overtime costs and so

        25       forth.



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         1                  And in some of the cities, two

         2       cities in particular that I'm aware of, this

         3       could save two cities in particular a lot of

         4       money.  Because the grand jury proceedings are

         5       blocked up a lot by law enforcement officers

         6       that are brought in to testify.

         7                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you.

         8                  Through you, Mr. President, on the

         9       bill.

        10                  I agree with Senator Volker's point

        11       about the business records issue.  I do think

        12       that it is something that really is a pro

        13       forma part of testimony in front of a grand

        14       jury or at a full trial.  That's a commonsense

        15       proposal that would save money in the state.

        16                  However, I cannot bring myself to

        17       vote for this bill because of the second

        18       provision.  And this was discussed in the

        19       debate last year, and I think this is

        20       tremendously important.

        21                  It is not -- we should be very,

        22       very cautious about proposals to save

        23       relatively small amounts of money in the

        24       context of the state budget by reducing the

        25       due process protections for the citizens of



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         1       this state.

         2                  And I think that the grand juries

         3       are the creatures of prosecutors already.  You

         4       know, the expression that you can get a grand

         5       jury to indict a ham sandwich if you want to

         6       is not that far off.  I've been a witness in

         7       grand jury proceedings, and it is something

         8       where the prosecutor controls the flow.  They

         9       move it along very quickly, usually.

        10                  The one thing that in my mind is

        11       the most critical thing that the grand jurors

        12       actually bring to the process is their ability

        13       to evaluate the credibility of witnesses.

        14       Grand jurors do have the power to ask

        15       questions of witnesses or to discuss the

        16       testimony of witnesses.

        17                  And I think that for us to have a

        18       one-sided fix with the goal of saving $150,000

        19       or $250,000 or $300,000 in a $105 billion

        20       state budget I think is tremendously

        21       shortsighted.  In a democracy that provides

        22       for due process of law, we should be very

        23       cautious about trying to save money by

        24       reducing the ability of grand jurors to assess

        25       the credibility of a witness.



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         1                  If a police officer wants to come

         2       in in a controversial case seeking an

         3       indictment of a defendant, one of the things

         4       that in my mind is most critical is to allow a

         5       jury and allow a grand jury to assess the

         6       credibility of that witness.

         7                  This would allow a prosecutor to

         8       make a determination:  You know, I don't think

         9       that police officer makes a very good witness.

        10       He looks like he's nervous, he's lying.  I'm

        11       going to try and cross every T and dot every I

        12       under this provision to keep him out.  But if

        13       I do have a police officer as a witness I

        14       think is going to make a good witness, I'm

        15       going to use him.

        16                  It puts too much power in the hands

        17       of prosecutors.  It is too quick a fix of a

        18       problem that I don't think is really an

        19       enormous problem.  We're going to be debating

        20       on Wednesday a death penalty statute that

        21       costs hundreds of millions of dollars for us

        22       to try to move forward a procedure that has

        23       resulted thus far in massive expense and

        24       actually no executions of anyone.

        25                  To save $150,000, $200,000,



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         1       $250,000, even a million dollars by removing

         2       the due process protection of allowing grand

         3       jurors to assess the credibility of a police

         4       witness I think is a mistake.

         5                  I'm going to vote no, and I

         6       encourage everyone to vote no.  I hope we can

         7       separate out the first portion of this bill,

         8       because I do think that's something that would

         9       have substantial support everywhere, in this

        10       house and in the other house.  But until we do

        11       that, Mr. President, I will be voting no.

        12                  Thank you.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

        14       other Senator wish to be heard?

        15                  Debate is closed, then.

        16                  The Secretary will sound the bells,

        17       please.

        18                  (Pause in proceedings.)

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        20       last section.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

        22       act shall take effect on the first of

        23       November.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        25       roll.



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         1                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

         3       DeFrancisco, to explain his vote.

         4                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I'm going

         5       to vote no on this bill, largely for the

         6       reasons that Senator Schneiderman mentioned.

         7                  It's one thing to put in business

         8       records, but it's another thing, especially --

         9       any witness, whether it's a police officer or

        10       not, when in restricting the time that an

        11       affidavit could be presented to when the

        12       officer actually knows these things from

        13       personal knowledge or witnessed the

        14       occurrence.  What more important witness would

        15       there be?

        16                  And I just think that if this is

        17       allowed, then there's really no purpose for

        18       the grand jury.  And maybe we should, if we

        19       want to save money, start thinking about

        20       abolishing the grand jury, because otherwise

        21       it will have no real purpose if we start

        22       allowing witnesses to testify, in quotes, by

        23       affidavit.

        24                  I vote no.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



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         1       DeFrancisco will be recorded in the negative.

         2                  Announce the results.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

         4       the negative on Calendar Number 98 are

         5       Senators Andrews, Breslin, DeFrancisco, Diaz,

         6       Gonzalez, Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger,

         7       Montgomery, Paterson, Savino, Schneiderman,

         8       and A. Smith.

         9                  Ayes, 43.  Nays, 12.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                  Senator Skelos.

        13                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

        14       is there any housekeeping at the desk?

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Yes, we

        16       do have a motion, Senator.

        17                  Senator Fuschillo.

        18                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    On behalf of

        19       Senator Saland --

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Just a

        21       second, Senator.

        22                  Can we have some order in the

        23       chamber.

        24                  Senator Fuschillo.

        25                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you,



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         1       Mr. President.

         2                  On behalf of Senator Saland, on

         3       page number 16 I offer the following

         4       amendments to Calendar Number 133, Senate

         5       Print Number 478, and ask that said bill

         6       retain its place on Third Reading Calendar.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

         8       amendments are received and adopted, and the

         9       bill will retain its place on the order of

        10       third reading.

        11                  Senator Montgomery.

        12                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, Mr.

        13       President.  Had I been in the chamber when the

        14       Calendar Number 96 was voted by this body, I

        15       would have voted no.  I believe it was voted

        16       on Wednesday.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        18       record will so reflect, Senator.

        19                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Thank you.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        21       Skelos.

        22                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

        23       there being no further business to come before

        24       the Senate, I move we stand adjourned until

        25       Tuesday, March 8th, at 3:00 p.m.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    On

         2       motion, the Senate stands adjourned until

         3       Tuesday, March the 8th, at 3:00 p.m.

         4                  (Whereupon, at 3:43 p.m., the

         5       Senate adjourned.)

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