Regular Session - March 17, 2005
1284
1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
2
3
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
5
6
7
8
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 March 17, 2005
11 11:44 a.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
15
16
17
18 LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President
19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
20
21
22
23
24
25
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1285
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
3 please come to order.
4 I ask everyone present to please
5 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of
6 Allegiance.
7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited
8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
9 THE PRESIDENT: In the absence of
10 clergy, may we bow our heads in a moment of
11 silence, please.
12 (Whereupon, the assemblage
13 respected a moment of silence.)
14 THE PRESIDENT: Reading of the
15 Journal.
16 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
17 Wednesday, March 16, the Senate met pursuant
18 to adjournment. The Journal of Tuesday,
19 March 15, was read and approved. On motion,
20 Senate adjourned.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Without
22 objection, the Journal stands approved as
23 read.
24 Presentation of petitions.
25 Messages from the Assembly.
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1286
1 Messages from the Governor.
2 Reports of standing committees.
3 The Secretary will read.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin,
5 from the Committee on Racing, Gaming and
6 Wagering, reports:
7 Senate Print 2594, by Senator
8 Larkin, an act to amend the Tax Law;
9 And Senate Print 3276, by Senator
10 Larkin, an act to amend the Tax Law.
11 Both bills ordered direct to third
12 reading.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Without
14 objection, the bills are ordered direct to
15 third reading.
16 Reports of select committees.
17 Communications and reports from
18 state officers.
19 Motions and resolutions.
20 Senator Meier.
21 SENATOR MEIER: Thank you, Madam
22 President.
23 On page number 15 I offer the
24 following amendments to Calendar Number 224,
25 Senate Print Number 2521, and I ask that said
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1287
1 bill retain its place on the Third Reading
2 Calendar.
3 THE PRESIDENT: The amendments
4 are received, and the bill will retain its
5 place on the Third Reading Calendar.
6 SENATOR MEIER: Thank you, Madam
7 President.
8 THE PRESIDENT: You're welcome.
9 Senator Skelos.
10 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
11 there's a Resolution Number 882 at the desk by
12 Senator Larkin. Could we have the title read
13 and move for its immediate adoption.
14 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
15 will read.
16 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
17 Larkin, Legislative Resolution Number 882,
18 commemorating the 130th Anniversary of
19 St. Mary's Church of Newburgh, New York.
20 THE PRESIDENT: All in favor
21 please signify by saying aye.
22 (Response of "Aye.")
23 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
24 (No response.)
25 THE PRESIDENT: The resolution is
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1288
1 adopted.
2 Senator Skelos.
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
4 could we go to the noncontroversial reading of
5 the calendar.
6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Farley
7 first.
8 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Madam
9 President.
10 THE PRESIDENT: You're welcome.
11 SENATOR FARLEY: I'd just like to
12 wish my colleagues a happy St. Patrick's Day,
13 and wish you, a good Irish woman, a happy
14 St. Patrick's Day.
15 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you.
16 SENATOR FARLEY: And I would hope
17 that you might wish the entire chamber such.
18 THE PRESIDENT: Absolutely.
19 From Mary O'Connor Donohue, I want
20 to congratulate Senator Farley for such a wise
21 motion, and to congratulate everybody for
22 being here and to celebrate your heritage,
23 whatever it may be. It's a good day to do so.
24 SENATOR FARLEY: Well done.
25 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1289
1 will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 183, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 2569, an
4 act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to the
5 appointments.
6 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
7 section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54. Nays,
13 1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
14 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
15 passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 200, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 2528, an
18 act to amend the General City Law, in relation
19 to inspectors of plumbing.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
21 section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
24 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
25 (The Secretary called the roll.)
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1290
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47.
2 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
3 passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 234, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 20, an
6 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to
7 extending the expiration.
8 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
9 section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
15 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
16 passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 263, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 2621, an
19 act in relation to granting the Wading River
20 Historical Society.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
22 section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
24 act shall take effect immediately.
25 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1291
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
3 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
4 passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 282, by Member of the Assembly Sanders,
7 Assembly Print Number 2928B --
8 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it
9 aside.
10 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
11 aside.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 300, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2594 --
14 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it
15 aside.
16 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
17 aside.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 301, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 3276 --
20 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it
21 aside.
22 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
23 aside.
24 Senator Skelos, that completes the
25 noncontroversial reading of the calendar.
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1292
1 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, Madam
2 President.
3 If we could ring the bells at this
4 time to alert the members that we're about to
5 go and discuss the controversial calendar.
6 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
7 will ring the bell.
8 And we ask that all members take
9 their seats so we can begin the controversial
10 calendar.
11 Senator Bonacic.
12 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you,
13 Madam President.
14 THE PRESIDENT: You're welcome.
15 SENATOR BONACIC: With respect to
16 Calendar Number 263, Senate Bill Number S2621,
17 I'd like permission to be voted in the
18 negative.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Hearing no
20 objection, you will be so recorded as voting
21 in the negative, Senator Bonacic.
22 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you.
23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos.
24 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
25 would you please recognize Senator Bonacic.
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1293
1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Bonacic.
2 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you,
3 Madam President.
4 I would just like to come back
5 to -- let me just put my glasses on a
6 minute -- Calendar Number 263, Senate Number
7 2621.
8 We've changed the rules of the
9 house. And I know that now we have to be
10 present on the consent calendar to vote no. I
11 would like to say if I had been here, I would
12 have voted no.
13 Thank you, Madam President.
14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
16 if we could now go to the controversial
17 reading of the calendar.
18 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
19 will read.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 282, by Member of the Assembly Sanders,
22 Assembly Print Number 2928B, an act to amend
23 the Education Law.
24 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:
25 Explanation.
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1294
1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Padavan,
2 an explanation has been requested.
3 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you,
4 Madam President.
5 This legislation would enable the
6 City of New York to continue bus contracts for
7 our children beyond the current contract,
8 which expires the end of June, June 30th of
9 this year, through a process that would allow
10 them to negotiate with those vendors who are
11 few in number that provide this level of
12 education. As opposed to an RFP, which would
13 cost, by their estimates, $240 million more
14 annually.
15 This approach makes sense from
16 many, many different vantage points. It ties
17 the increases into the price indexing that is
18 applicable nationwide, the CPI. It allows the
19 city to come up with an appropriate level of
20 cost that would preclude competitive bidding,
21 which would be much higher, history tells us.
22 And as I indicated at the outset,
23 we're talking about $240 million in savings.
24 THE PRESIDENT: Does any other
25 member wish to be heard?
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1295
1 Senator Stavisky.
2 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you,
3 Madam President.
4 When I first saw the bill, I had
5 reservations because whenever we eliminate
6 competitive bidding or RFPs, I was concerned.
7 I am totally convinced that this is
8 a good bill, that apparently nobody really
9 wants to bid on the bus contracts any longer.
10 They can't make money on them.
11 And to continue it, to extend it
12 for the five-year period that this bill does,
13 and in conjunction with reforms that the bus
14 operators apparently are planning to initiate
15 in terms of training of the drivers, improved
16 work rules and so on, it seems to me that the
17 savings to the city of New York is a -- it's a
18 good bill, and I'm delighted to support it.
19 THE PRESIDENT: The debate is
20 closed.
21 The Secretary will ring the bell.
22 Read the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
24 act shall take effect immediately.
25 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1296
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55. Nays,
3 zero.
4 Those Senators absent from voting
5 on Calendar Number 282 are Senators Balboni
6 and Sampson.
7 THE PRESIDENT: There is a local
8 fiscal impact note at the desk.
9 The bill is passed.
10 The Secretary will continue to
11 read.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 300, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2594, an
14 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to video
15 lottery gaming.
16 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:
17 Explanation.
18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Meier an
19 explanation has been requested.
20 SENATOR MEIER: Thank you, Madam
21 President.
22 This is Senator Larkin's bill.
23 This bill revises the VLT program, really to
24 incentivize the tracks, to get the program up
25 and running, and of most concern, I think, to
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1297
1 everyone in the chamber, to get the dollars
2 flowing for the intended purpose of supporting
3 education.
4 The bill does that by increasing
5 the vendor fee from 29 percent to a higher
6 percentage. That gives the tracks the revenue
7 they need. It institutes a sliding-scale
8 vendor fee that recognizes the percentage of
9 overhead costs that's incurred by smaller
10 racetracks that install VLT machines. There's
11 going to be a larger percentage than for
12 larger tracks.
13 This really is an effort to provide
14 an economic incentive for those tracks that
15 need it and to get this program running.
16 We're leaving probably $850 million a year on
17 the table that should be going into the
18 classrooms of this state.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Sabini.
20 SENATOR SABINI: Thank you, Madam
21 President. On the bill.
22 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed
23 on the bill.
24 SENATOR SABINI: This bill, as
25 well as the next calendar item, comes out of
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1298
1 the Racing and Wagering Committee. And it's
2 designed really to force an action on the part
3 of the other house, since we really -- they
4 have not come up with a policy decision on
5 this.
6 This comes as a result of the court
7 decision that said that the racinos that are
8 operating cannot pay money to the horsemen and
9 the breeders because it violates the state
10 constitutional amendment that allowed the
11 lottery which said all proceeds should go to
12 education. So the two bills, and I'll sort of
13 address both of them, take varying approaches
14 to how to fix that.
15 The fact remains that if we don't
16 do this, not only are those racinos in
17 jeopardy of cessation of their operations,
18 which would a bad thing for Saratoga and
19 Buffalo and Monticello, but the big kahunas of
20 the racino program are Aqueduct and Yonkers.
21 And the partnership that
22 particularly NYRA has with Aqueduct is --
23 hinges on a partnership, rather, with MGM
24 Grand, who is providing a lot of the financing
25 for the refurbishment of the grandstand area
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1299
1 where the racino will be operating. And they
2 have been reluctant, frankly, to put up the
3 tens of millions of dollars necessary unless
4 they know that they can do this legally and
5 not have a threat of closure from the courts.
6 So there are literally thousands of
7 jobs at stake in Queens County and over a
8 thousand in Westchester County that will rely
9 on the fix of this legislation.
10 So it's important for the education
11 budget to get more money in. It's also
12 important for the economy, for jobs. And
13 particularly in the county that I'm from, in
14 Queens, we will see lots of good-paying jobs
15 established if these bills go through.
16 Now, one of the other features of
17 this legislation is to change the promotional
18 aspect of these establishments. Right now,
19 when you go to Atlantic City or if you go to
20 Connecticut, or soon if you go to
21 Pennsylvania, you'll find that the players are
22 treated well. There are things that they do,
23 enhancements that they do, the operators do,
24 to get players to spend more time and more
25 money. Now, that can range anywhere from
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1300
1 beverages to apparel to meals.
2 Yet in New York we're very limited
3 on this. In fact, the promotional budget is
4 so small, it's really laughable. And people
5 have a choice as to where they can go with
6 their money if they want to spend it in an
7 afternoon at a bank of slot machines, and
8 they're going to go where they feel more
9 welcome and where they feel they're getting
10 more for their money.
11 Additionally, there's an upstate
12 economy aspect to this. Besides the danger of
13 Monticello and Buffalo and Saratoga racinos
14 closing if we don't do something is the fact
15 that the smaller harness tracks upstate will
16 be able to take advantage of this now.
17 And in the first bill, there's a
18 sliding scale as to how much the track would
19 get as, in effect, a vendor. Because under
20 the Lottery Law, every newsstand that sells a
21 lottery ticket gets a percentage for being the
22 vendor. So the tracks would get a sliding
23 scale based on the size of the take as a
24 vendor fee. And the smaller tracks would get
25 a little bit of a higher percentage as a
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1301
1 vendor.
2 And currently there are tracks that
3 are either not operating on or on the verge of
4 not operating, in places like Tioga,
5 Vernon Downs, Batavia. These tracks really
6 need these racinos to come up and operate, not
7 only so we can all benefit from the jobs, we
8 can all benefit from the income, but that we
9 can also keep the very important harness
10 breeding industry in New York -- which was an
11 industry that was unparalleled, really, in the
12 country but now has fallen on hard times --
13 keep the harness industry in New York going.
14 So each bill is not mutually
15 exclusive. I intend to vote for both of the
16 bills. The committee reported out both bills.
17 I want to commend Senator Larkin on
18 his hard work on this. And despite the fact
19 that his voice has been failing him, his
20 stewardship on this legislation has been
21 steadfast.
22 And either bill, really, would do
23 something positive to keep this program going
24 and to expand it so we can get the much-needed
25 revenue and create the jobs.
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1302
1 Thank you, Madam President.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Libous.
3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Madam
4 President. I too want to speak on the bill,
5 if I may.
6 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed
7 on the bill, Senator Libous.
8 SENATOR LIBOUS: This bill will
9 help to create a great opportunity in upstate
10 New York. Because if this bill is passed,
11 Tioga Downs, which was has been closed for
12 about twenty years, will be reopened. And
13 along with that, it will create about 350
14 jobs. It will generate some $50 million that
15 will go into education funding. And it will
16 breathe new life into the Southern Tier on
17 Route 17, in the town of Nichols in Tioga
18 County.
19 So I would urge my colleagues to
20 pass this. This is a good piece of
21 legislation. This helps reallocate and will
22 take an area that is dying for new opportunity
23 and growth, an area that needs the jobs, will
24 help them to grow. And it is a great
25 investment on our part to the future of that
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1303
1 region of the state.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Rath.
3 SENATOR RATH: Madam Chairman, I
4 rise to congratulate Senator Larkin on this
5 very creative piece of legislation and comment
6 that Batavia Downs, the country's oldest
7 lighted harness track, will benefit
8 dramatically from this.
9 For those of that don't know, I
10 would only add that Batavia, in my district,
11 situated neatly between Rochester and Buffalo,
12 was named by Site Selection Magazine as the
13 8th most important "minipolitan" in the
14 country. Our economic development programs
15 and our aggressive effort to help upstate
16 New York have paid off dramatically for
17 Batavia. We will congratulate them officially
18 here with a resolution.
19 But to have Batavia Downs have this
20 opportunity, it will only add to their
21 minipolitan stature and hopefully more
22 businesses will come to Batavia and upstate
23 New York. A rising tide lifts all ships.
24 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Krueger.
25 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: If the
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1304
1 sponsor surrogate would rise for a question.
2 I believe that's Senator Meier.
3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Meier --
4 SENATOR MEIER: We have so many
5 to choose from. So let's hear the question
6 and then we'll fight it out as to who gets to
7 answer.
8 THE PRESIDENT: Will you take a
9 question, Senator Meier?
10 SENATOR MEIER: Yes, I will.
11 THE PRESIDENT: All right. You
12 may proceed, Senator.
13 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Senator
14 Meier, in your explanation before, you said
15 that this could bring in as much as
16 $850 million for education. I assume you
17 meant on an annualized basis.
18 SENATOR MEIER: On an annualized
19 basis. Just for Yonkers.
20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: The Yonkers
21 track alone could bring in $850 million for
22 education?
23 SENATOR MEIER: I myself am not
24 familiar with the -- no? Senator Sabini is
25 shaking his head.
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1305
1 That's overall.
2 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Overall.
3 Through you, Madam President, if
4 the sponsor would continue to yield.
5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator, will you
6 yield for a question?
7 SENATOR MEIER: Yes, I will,
8 Madam President.
9 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed,
10 Senator Krueger.
11 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
12 And so I have a chart that shows
13 that 50 percent of the 8 percent that doesn't
14 get paid out in prizes through this model
15 would go to education.
16 So if I do the math, that means for
17 $850 million to be going into education, over
18 $21 billion would be gambled using these VLT
19 machines. Is that correct?
20 SENATOR MEIER: Could you repeat
21 that question again, Senator? I'm a little
22 slow with your math.
23 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Certainly.
24 I have an analysis that shows that
25 within this bill 92 percent of every dollar
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1306
1 bet would be paid out as prizes, leaving
2 8 percent.
3 SENATOR MEIER: Right. Let's do
4 it one piece at a time. That's correct.
5 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: That of
6 that 8 percent remaining, 10 percent would go
7 to the Lottery Division, there would be a
8 complex moving formula for the vendor fee and
9 also a moving formula for the vendor
10 marketing, but that approximately 50 percent
11 of that 8 percent, or 4 percent of the total,
12 would go towards education.
13 SENATOR MEIER: Yes, that's
14 correct. Approximately.
15 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
16 So if $850 million is 4 percent,
17 then 100 percent would be $21 billion, a
18 little over $21 billion actually gambled?
19 SENATOR MEIER: Approximately,
20 yes.
21 What's your point, Senator?
22 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Okay. I
23 wanted to just make sure I had the numbers
24 right. Thank you.
25 Speaking on the bill, Madam
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1307
1 President.
2 Thank you, Mr. Sponsor Surrogate.
3 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed
4 on the bill, Senator Krueger.
5 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: We passed
6 the laws to expand VLTs within harness racing
7 before I was in the Senate, so I can't say
8 that I have a record of voting for or against
9 this model. And I do understand the dilemma
10 of the constitutional question from Dalton v.
11 Pataki.
12 But I have to say, with little time
13 to look at this, should we not be asking the
14 bigger question? In addition to perhaps
15 850 million in education that we might
16 receive, that this one model -- and we're
17 talking about many models of gambling,
18 hypothetically, in New York State at this
19 point in time, casinos, other VLTs, expanded
20 lotteries -- $21 billion in gambling revenue
21 just from harness track racinos is $21 billion
22 from our economy that won't be spent in other
23 ways.
24 Because the income of our
25 constituents doesn't necessarily move with how
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1308
1 much they gamble, although we could argue that
2 the ones who win, their revenue moves. But
3 you're talking about making a decision just in
4 harness racing of $21 billion being spent
5 gambling in VLTs within harness racetracks,
6 which is $21 billion that constituents may not
7 have, then, for their housing or to help pay
8 for their health care or their children's
9 education.
10 And I know that Senator Padavan, in
11 fact, I think, is the leader in our Senate
12 chamber raising the concerns about the costs
13 to be paid from expanded gambling. But the
14 numbers are startling just for this one
15 proposal within harness racetracks and
16 expanding VLTs there.
17 And I know that many of my
18 colleagues disagree with me, and they argue
19 that people will go and gamble in other
20 states, they will spend that money anyway, and
21 why shouldn't the money be spent here in
22 New York State so that some of it goes into
23 education.
24 But I am uncomfortable moving
25 forward with a fix that still results in this
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1309
1 much money going out of the pockets of
2 New Yorkers for gambling, without any
3 information that any of the money in this bill
4 would go towards public education about some
5 of the dangers of gambling, the risks of
6 addiction from gambling, the costs to one's
7 family in losing one's money in gambling, the
8 risks associated with the odds of gambling.
9 And so I will be voting against
10 this bill today, continuing my concern that we
11 aren't asking all the questions as we move
12 forward to expand gambling in the State of
13 New York.
14 Thank you, Madam President.
15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Spano.
16 SENATOR SPANO: Thank you, Madam
17 President.
18 I think we need to look at this
19 bill for what it is. It's a jobs bill, and
20 it's an education bill.
21 And with all due respect to Senator
22 Krueger, I think rather than flippantly
23 referring to perhaps putting $850 million into
24 education, we should recognize that
25 $850 million means a big difference in the
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1310
1 education of our kids all across this state.
2 Right now in Yonkers Raceway and
3 Aqueduct and harness racing across this state,
4 we've seen the decline. Yonkers Raceway right
5 now is at a dead stop as a result of that
6 court decision that we need to repair through
7 this bill or the other bill that Senator
8 Larkin is offering today.
9 We need to get VLTs moving in
10 New York State so that we can get the benefit
11 of the education money that is so necessary
12 for our school districts.
13 We do pay attention to people who
14 suffer from an addiction. And that's why we
15 have increased our funding over the years, as
16 a Senate initiative, for people who suffer
17 from compulsive gambling. And we recognize
18 that.
19 But as you said, Senator, that
20 we're taking money out of the pockets of
21 New Yorkers, I'd submit to you that the money
22 is coming out of the pockets of New Yorkers
23 already. They are gambling whether you want
24 to put blinders on or not. They're gambling
25 in Pennsylvania -- which, by the way, gives
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1311
1 more money to the tracks than we would here.
2 They're gambling in Atlantic City. They're
3 gambling at the Indian casinos. They're
4 playing the lottery and taking advantage of so
5 much that is there.
6 We're saying let's put in place a
7 bill that the intent of this bill is to have a
8 vendor's fee for the racetracks, a reasonable
9 and necessary marketing allowance for the
10 racetracks so that we can market what we're
11 doing at these tracks, pay attention to
12 compulsive gambling, and allow the tracks to
13 move forward to hire people in our
14 communities, to make sure that we are sharing
15 that economic base for education that will be
16 raised by -- $850 million is just a beginning
17 number of what we'll be able to raise for
18 education in this state -- and move forward
19 without delay, because we've delayed too long
20 and have seen the suffering of our communities
21 and our school districts all across the state.
22 So I am very happy to support this
23 measure, and both measures today, and hope
24 that we move forward without delay and get a
25 bill to the Governor for his signature.
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1312
1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
2 you.
3 Senator Sabini.
4 SENATOR SABINI: Thank you, Madam
5 President.
6 I just wanted to explain to my
7 colleagues, because that number that was
8 quoted before sounds vast -- and it is a vast
9 number, but it's not a true number.
10 Because just like you would at a
11 poker game in someone's house, the statistical
12 amount of money bet is known in the business
13 as a churn. If you put $10 into one of these
14 VLTs, you don't just play it once, you play it
15 over and over until you either win enough
16 money that you want to leave or you lose your,
17 say, theoretical $10.
18 Statistically, that $10, depending
19 on the play on the machine and the odds on the
20 machine, will churn to $170 or more. So the
21 figure that was quoted before of some
22 $20 billion or something is probably close to
23 twenty times the real number because of the
24 churn.
25 In other words, every time in a
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1313
1 standard, say, poker machine that we have in
2 our VLTs, the standard bet is a dollar and a
3 quarter. If you want to play for the full
4 odds, you'd play a dollar and a quarter. And
5 you put $10 in that machine, you would keep
6 playing that over and over and over. So the
7 number of $20 billion or whatever I heard was
8 that dollar and a quarter times the number of
9 hands you played.
10 That doesn't mean you're actually
11 going to lose $20 billion. It probably means
12 close to like less than a billion or around a
13 billion. Which is still a lot of money, but
14 statistically in the gaming industry, it's not
15 the amount -- the amount wagered is not the
16 amount lost. It's part of a churn of money.
17 And it's really probably about an 18th or a
18 20th of the real number.
19 So people shouldn't get alarmed at
20 the size of it. It's still a big amount of
21 money. But people that play machines just
22 don't play once -- otherwise, they wouldn't
23 drive three hours to Connecticut or Atlantic
24 City to play -- they make a day of it. And
25 the money that's churned for, say, a hundred
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1314
1 dollars could be well over -- your risking
2 $100 can sometimes be a churn of $10,000, even
3 though you don't realize it.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
5 you, Senator.
6 Senator Nozzolio.
7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Madam
8 President, on the bill.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
10 you. Senator Nozzolio, on the bill.
11 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I had not
12 expected to rise today, but Senator Krueger's
13 comments motivated me to get up and discuss
14 something that is of a broader perspective.
15 The efforts of Senator Larkin in
16 pushing this legislation should be commended.
17 Because what this does is present, besides all
18 the other merits that have been discussed
19 today -- about education, about assistance to
20 the General Fund, about helping a variety of
21 regions of the state in economic development
22 efforts -- what needs to be also emphasized is
23 what this will do to help the horse racing
24 industry.
25 Now, the horse breeding industry is
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1315
1 an industry that in New York perspective is
2 one that is growing as an agricultural entity.
3 It's a key component of our agricultural
4 sector in Western New York. It employs
5 literally thousands of people who are directly
6 involved in the development of horse breeding,
7 who are tangentially involved in growing hay
8 and feed for horses, involved in the training
9 and development of horses.
10 That we a few years ago in this
11 chamber congratulated the breeders and the
12 owners of Funny Cide, a New York-bred horse
13 who won the Kentucky Derby and then went and
14 to win the Preakness. Each of us stood and
15 congratulated that accomplishment from a
16 New York-bred horse.
17 New York breeding and the New York
18 horse industry is an excellent contributor to
19 jobs in Western New York. And that for some
20 in this chamber to cavalierly say this is not
21 going to help job development I think misses
22 the mark.
23 And that if there are to be Funny
24 Cides in the future, those New York-breds who
25 succeed on the national stage of horse racing,
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1316
1 if we are to expand the jobs that are in this
2 industry already, you need to support this
3 legislation. If you don't, you're basically
4 saying no to those jobs for upstate New York.
5 Thank you, Madam President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
7 you.
8 Senator Klein.
9 SENATOR KLEIN: On the bill,
10 Madam President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
12 you. Senator Klein, on the bill.
13 SENATOR KLEIN: I too rise in
14 support of this legislation.
15 While I don't think gambling is the
16 economic wherewithal for our state, I do
17 believe we do have some good instances here
18 where it has been an economic generator.
19 Clearly Saratoga has been a success story.
20 Yonkers Raceway, which is within my Senate
21 district, is clearly on economic hard times.
22 The track no longer has a clientele. Needless
23 to say, it's become very shabby, the
24 surrounding area.
25 I think this legislation would help
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1317
1 get a large handle again at the racetrack. I
2 don't think we can ever go back to the 42,000
3 people that used to go to Yonkers Raceway each
4 and every night, but we can increase the
5 number of people who go.
6 I just want to take it one step
7 further, because I believe the money that goes
8 into education is important. It's an
9 important one-shot for an ailing education
10 system.
11 I would like to see, more
12 specifically, a portion of the money that
13 would be generated at Yonkers Raceway by the
14 VLTs be dedicated to the schoolkids of
15 Yonkers. I think everyone knows clearly that
16 Yonkers is on economic hard times. They have
17 a school system that is not run properly. We
18 can debate why that happened. But the bottom
19 line is we need some money to go to Yonkers
20 schoolkids now.
21 So I would support this
22 legislation, and I would hope there would be a
23 way that we can at least earmark a portion of
24 this money, not only to make sure that the
25 track survives but also getting more money for
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1318
1 Yonkers schoolkids.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
3 you, Senator.
4 Is there any other Senator wishing
5 to be heard?
6 The debate is closed.
7 The Secretary will ring the bell.
8 Read the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call
12 the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator
15 Diaz, to explain his vote.
16 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, Madam
17 President. Good morning. I would like to
18 explain my vote.
19 But before I explain my vote, I
20 would like to join my colleague on the other
21 side when he wished you and all the Irish
22 people a very good day.
23 Madam President, tradition states
24 that a day like today, you've got to wear
25 green. And if you don't, you've got to be
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1319
1 pinched. So ladies and gentlemen, start
2 pinching.
3 (Laughter.)
4 SENATOR DIAZ: To explain my
5 vote.
6 I heard Senator Spano. He said
7 that they are gambling in New Jersey, he said
8 they are gambling in Atlantic City, he said
9 they are gambling in Pennsylvania.
10 And this is a new trend. This is a
11 new trend. Whatever the other people do, we
12 should do. They doing stem research --
13 embryonic stem cell research in California,
14 then do it here. So whatever any other people
15 do, we should do too.
16 And gambling is dangerous.
17 Gambling takes money away from people. I
18 oppose gambling in any type, shape or form.
19 Games should be only used for recreational
20 activities.
21 So I'm voting no on this bill for
22 reasons -- not because I want to bring
23 New York to be bankrupt and I want to prevent
24 the Education Department from getting money,
25 but because gambling is not the right way to
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1320
1 go.
2 Thank you.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator
4 Diaz will be recorded in the negative.
5 Senator Padavan, to explain his
6 vote.
7 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you,
8 Madam President.
9 I have no illusions that anything
10 I'll say now or have ever said over the last
11 several decades will have any impact
12 whatsoever. However, I think something should
13 be said.
14 This is not found money. This is
15 not new money that will go toward education in
16 a very positive way. It's money that's being
17 sucked out of the economy like a vacuum
18 cleaner.
19 If you add up all of the gambling
20 venues that we currently now have in effect --
21 State Lottery, Quick Draw, Scratch-off, Super
22 Lotto, casinos, those that are online -- and
23 you add these new venues, these racinos, some
24 of which are already in operation, and these
25 that are being proposed today, we're talking
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1321
1 about $80 billion annually being wagered by
2 the people of New York State.
3 And the argument has always been
4 that they're going to gamble anyhow. And
5 that's true, in part. But what all the
6 economists and sociologists and everybody who
7 has any expertise in this area will tell you
8 is that the more readily available you make
9 gambling, the more people will gamble and the
10 more often they will gamble.
11 Which is why our State Lottery
12 spends $30 million, $40 million a year in
13 advertising. They have a monopoly. In
14 theory, they shouldn't need to advertise. But
15 they want more people to gamble more often.
16 These VLTs in Queens that you
17 referred to as economic development, Senator
18 Sabini, are going to suck money out of people
19 in that community who can least afford it.
20 Because you and I both know who lives in the
21 vicinity of Aqueduct. They're not wealthy
22 people who get on a bus or a train or in a car
23 and go to Atlantic City. But they will drive
24 to that large parking lot, which is a flea
25 market on weekends, and they will go there and
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1322
1 lose their money. You know it, and I know it.
2 Let's not kid ourselves.
3 If we're so concerned about
4 education dollars, why not put the VLTs right
5 in the schools? We could short-circuit the
6 whole system; take the money right out of the
7 machines and turn it over to education. Cut
8 out all the middlemen.
9 There is absolutely no
10 justification for this state now being the
11 premier state in the nation in terms of gross
12 amounts gambled and over a million people who
13 are both compulsive and problem gamblers.
14 And if you doubt me, go to a
15 meeting of Gamblers Anonymous and sit there
16 and listen, as I have done, or talk to the
17 people who are the advocates for those poor
18 souls, and find out what we have done in
19 New York State to increase that number every
20 year that I can recall, decade after decade of
21 more gambling, more ways for people to lose
22 money.
23 And each time, we come up with
24 justification: education. It's not a
25 justification. It's an excuse. Let's call it
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1323
1 for what it is.
2 I vote no.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator
4 Padavan will be recorded in the negative.
5 Senator LaValle, to explain his
6 vote.
7 SENATOR LaVALLE: Madam
8 President, to explain my vote.
9 I have listened to Senator Padavan.
10 We've talked about this. And I certainly -- I
11 feel very conflicted about these bills and
12 come to a different conclusion than Senator
13 Padavan.
14 One, I have always opposed
15 gambling. I think we're going too far in this
16 state. And what is disturbing is that we
17 constantly make manipulations with our
18 constitution. The provisions are very, very
19 clear what we can do and not do. And I wonder
20 whether on some of these measures we are
21 piercing or going around constitutional
22 authority.
23 And the reason I come to a
24 different position than the Senator is that
25 that's for a court to decide, decisions and
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1324
1 lawsuits, constitutional challenges.
2 But I think we do have to be very,
3 very careful and go through the right
4 processes that indeed the people have an
5 opportunity to be petitioned -- to have a
6 petition and express themselves, so that our
7 constitutional authority is clear and it is
8 done through a process rather than through
9 back-door pieces.
10 It does provide more money for
11 education. We're faced with great challenges.
12 And until the courts tell us otherwise, I will
13 vote in the affirmative on this measure.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
15 you. Senator LaValle recorded in the
16 affirmative.
17 Senator Schneiderman.
18 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Briefly,
19 Madam President, to explain my vote.
20 I really -- my feelings are similar
21 to Senator LaValle's. I am conflicted about
22 this. I think in general I am opposed to the
23 expansion of gambling. I think it has become
24 one of the critical elements of the economic
25 development strategy for the State of New York
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1325
1 in the last decade, and I think that's a grave
2 error.
3 I do think that in this particular
4 case, we have institutions that have been
5 providing gambling entertainment for a long
6 time -- horse racing -- that need some help
7 and support, that do create jobs, that do
8 generate some funds for education.
9 But this is an issue that no one
10 should vote on without giving it a lot of
11 thought and without taking it very seriously.
12 And I disagree strongly with
13 Senator Padavan's -- one statement Senator
14 Padavan made, which is the assertion that it
15 has not made any difference for him to speak
16 as he has over these years. I think it's made
17 a tremendous difference. I think people take
18 this more seriously. I think it changes some
19 people's votes.
20 And there's a long, long history
21 behind us and there's a lot of years ahead of
22 us and decisions on gambling still to be made,
23 and I do think that his voice has been very
24 significant and made a difference on these
25 issues.
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1326
1 I will be voting for this bill,
2 Madam President. But I do so with the same
3 conflicted feelings that Senator LaValle
4 expressed.
5 Thank you.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
7 you. Senator Schneiderman in the affirmative.
8 The Secretary will announce the
9 results.
10 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
11 the negative on Calendar Number 300 are
12 Senators Diaz, L. Krueger, Padavan, Parker and
13 Serrano.
14 Those Senators absent from voting,
15 Balboni and Sampson.
16 Ayes, 50. Nays, 5.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
18 bill is passed.
19 The Secretary will read.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 301, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 3276, an
22 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to video
23 lottery gaming.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read
25 the last section.
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1327
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call
4 the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator
7 Diaz, to explain his vote.
8 SENATOR DIAZ: I'm going to vote
9 no again for this one, for the same reason.
10 But, you know, I hate to see people
11 playing God and the devil, taking the
12 opportunity to stand up and explain how wrong
13 is this and I've got concerns and this is
14 wrong, but I'm voting yes.
15 I mean, come on, stop, ladies and
16 gentlemen. Let's be somebody. I mean, let's
17 get some kind of sense on this. So stop, you
18 know, wobbling and trying to be on both sides.
19 If you want to vote yes, don't say that
20 there's anything wrong with the bill. If you
21 want to vote no, just vote no. Come on, stop
22 this thing already.
23 I'm voting no. Thank you.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator
25 Diaz in the negative.
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1328
1 The Secretary will announce the
2 results.
3 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
4 the negative on Calendar Number 301 are
5 Senators Diaz, Duane, L. Krueger, Padavan,
6 Parker, Schneiderman and Serrano.
7 Those absent from voting are
8 Senators Balboni and Sampson.
9 Ayes, 48. Nays, 7.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The
11 bill is passed.
12 Senator Skelos.
13 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President,
14 is there any housekeeping at the desk?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: No,
16 there is not, Senator Skelos.
17 SENATOR SKELOS: There will be an
18 immediate meeting of the Majority in the
19 Majority Conference Room.
20 And there being no further business
21 to come before the Senate, I move we stand
22 adjourned until 3:00 p.m. Monday, March 21st,
23 intervening days being legislative days.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank
25 you.
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910
1329
1 On motion, the Senate stands
2 adjourned until Monday, March 21st, at
3 3:00 p.m., intervening days being legislative
4 days.
5 (Whereupon, at 12:39 p.m., the
6 Senate adjourned.)
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.
(518) 371-8910