Regular Session - April 4, 2005

                                                            1719



         1                 NEW YORK STATE SENATE

         2

         3

         4                THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

         5

         6

         7

         8

         9                   ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                     April 4, 2005

        11                       3:19 p.m.

        12

        13

        14                    REGULAR SESSION

        15

        16

        17

        18  LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President

        19  STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

        20

        21

        22

        23

        24

        25



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         1                 P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                  THE PRESIDENT:    The Senate will

         3       please come to order.

         4                  I ask everyone present to please

         5       rise and repeat with me the Pledge of

         6       Allegiance.

         7                  (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

         8       the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         9                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Bruno.

        10                  SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

        11       Rabbis, Father Young, colleagues, I would

        12       respectfully ask all in the chamber that we

        13       open this session in honor of the memory of

        14       our very, very close friend and colleague,

        15       Patricia -- Pat -- McGee, who, as you all

        16       know, passed away at 8:30 Saturday night and

        17       won't be with us here in this chamber

        18       physically, but she will be here with us

        19       spiritually.

        20                  Thank you, Madam President.

        21                  THE PRESIDENT:    With us this

        22       afternoon to give the invocation is Rabbi

        23       Shmuel M. Butman, from Lubavitch Youth

        24       Organization in Brooklyn, New York.

        25                  RABBI BUTMAN:    When God is with



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         1       you, you get to meet Mary Donohue twice on the

         2       same day.  We did that before, and it's really

         3       a pleasure.

         4                  Let us pray together.

         5                  [In Hebrew.]  Our heavenly Father,

         6       we ask You to bestow Your blessings upon the

         7       Senate of the State of New York.  Bless them

         8       and their families with all good blessings of

         9       health and prosperity and the power to

        10       continue the good work that they have been

        11       doing until now.

        12                  You have been blessed, each and

        13       every single one of you.  You are the

        14       representatives of the people of the great

        15       State of New York, and you legislate laws that

        16       govern society, laws that introduce goodness

        17       and kindness and honesty and decency to all

        18       the citizens in this great State of New York

        19       and, through them, to the people in the United

        20       States, and by extension to all the people in

        21       the world.  Which means you in this chamber

        22       make the world a better place.

        23                  We are so glad that you have

        24       dedicated 103 days of education in honor of

        25       the Rebbe.  The Rebbe is the one who worried



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         1       and worries for the education of every child

         2       regardless of race, religion, color and creed.

         3                  And the Rebbe tells us that we live

         4       in a special generation.  This is the last

         5       generation of exile and the first generation

         6       of redemption.  And we can bring that great

         7       redemption even closer by doing more deeds of

         8       goodness and kindness.

         9                  And talking about deeds of goodness

        10       and kindness, in 1991 I opened a much smaller

        11       chamber than this, the United States Senate in

        12       Washington.  The Rebbe told me I should take a

        13       pushkeh with me -- a pushkeh is a charity

        14       box -- and then I should invite -- in the

        15       opening I should put in a dollar, on which it

        16       says "in God we trust," in the pushkeh, so

        17       that everyone should know that they have an

        18       obligation to give charity and do the right

        19       thing.

        20                  So although this is not a

        21       fund-raising campaign, but if you want to join

        22       us after that in doing an act of goodness and

        23       kindness, that would be greatly appreciated.

        24                  And now I would like to do exactly

        25       what the Rebbe asked me to do, and put in this



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         1       dollar into the pushkeh, so that we do another

         2       act of goodness and kindness.  And that we

         3       show the example as to what money has to be

         4       used for, as the Rebbe told us.

         5                  In all our shuls, in all our

         6       synagogues every Saturday, I want you to know,

         7       we say a special prayer for each and every

         8       single one of you.  We say the [in Hebrew],

         9       which means all those who serve the public

        10       faithfully, as you do, may almighty God reward

        11       their noble deeds.

        12                  We are too small to reward you for

        13       the wonderful things that you are doing, but

        14       almighty God, He Himself is the one who can

        15       reward you for those good deeds that you are

        16       doing and that you will continue to do.

        17                  And may God's blessing be upon you

        18       and your families for health and for

        19       happiness, for long life and for gladness of

        20       heart.  May God bless you, all of you.

        21                  Thank you.

        22                  THE PRESIDENT:    Also with us this

        23       afternoon to speak with us is the Reverend

        24       Peter G. Young, from Blessed Sacrament Church

        25       in Bolton Landing, New York.



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         1                  REVEREND YOUNG:    When we speak

         2       and meet in session today, we share our

         3       friendship while advocating our own

         4       constituency's agenda.

         5                  One of our peers, from the 57th

         6       District, has suddenly left a void in our

         7       Senate chamber.  Her chair is represented by,

         8       today, red roses.

         9                  Her death leaves us with a sorrow

        10       that will not only be felt in the Olean and

        11       Jamestown area, but here where Senator McGee

        12       gave a voice to the agricultural community but

        13       respect, then, to all of her coworkers and

        14       friends here in the capital.

        15                  May we continue to follow her

        16       example of hospitality, dedication and

        17       commitment to the citizens of New York State.

        18                  We take this opportunity to pray

        19       for an eternal reward for her outstanding

        20       dignity and sensitivity as a member of this

        21       esteemed Senate body.

        22                  Amen.

        23                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Marchi.

        24                  SENATOR MARCHI:    Madam President,

        25       it's indeed a fortuitous set of circumstances



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         1       that bring us all back together again.

         2                  Rabbi Butman is not a stranger

         3       here.  He has been with us on many occasions,

         4       and it's always been a joyous matter.  He

         5       represents, with his colleagues, over a

         6       thousand years of continuous sharing of

         7       experiences, and very broad in his

         8       application.

         9                  I remember the first time they

        10       invited me over to meet the Rebbe, there

        11       were -- I stayed a solid hour at that time,

        12       and I was spellbound.  He had been educated in

        13       the University of Paris, I believe, and he had

        14       had the benefit of a very wide education.

        15                  And if he were here now, you'd be

        16       very happy to hear him, because he represented

        17       all that we felt was sacred not only to our

        18       own particular view of our theology, but he

        19       strengthened everybody's understanding of that

        20       theology, that we are not -- we are not just

        21       animals or creatures of God of a lower order,

        22       but members of a great fraternity that they

        23       represent so well, and that throughout the

        24       world, in small numbers but significant

        25       numbers, small numbers who remind us of the



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         1       great significance of their presence.  They go

         2       into Maimonides, they go into the great people

         3       who gave fire and emphasis to all of the

         4       things and experiences we felt.

         5                  So it's always a joy.  I'm along in

         6       years, along with some of you -- but you're

         7       all younger than I am, I guess.  And as long

         8       as it lasts, believe me, I think it fills us

         9       with a feeling of joy, of jubilation that you

        10       are here, because you have so much to point to

        11       in terms of reinforcing every spiritual

        12       feeling that runs into this wide society.

        13       Whether they're members of your religion,

        14       particularly, but you strengthen that

        15       throughout the world.

        16                  So it's indeed a joy to see you

        17       again, and I'm sure you will find the same

        18       spirit over in the Assembly when you visit

        19       them, because you exemplify that which is so

        20       important to the people, to the creatures of

        21       God, that we are meant for a higher destiny

        22       and we know it.

        23                  So again, it's been a great

        24       pleasure to see you, sir, and your colleagues.

        25       And I do hope I -- well, I just count it a



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         1       blessing when I have an opportunity, Madam

         2       President.  You've got them right there, and

         3       I'm sure that you appreciate the fact that

         4       they are splendid people and that they

         5       represent a tradition that goes back a

         6       millennium, and over that, on the nature of

         7       our spirituality and our culture.

         8                  This is everyone.  There isn't a

         9       person in this chamber who has not been

        10       affected by them and those who preceded them

        11       so nobly through the years.

        12                  So God bless you.  And I'm very,

        13       very proud to see you again and very happy in

        14       this experience.

        15                  RABBI BUTMAN:    Thank you very,

        16       very much.  Thank you, Senator.

        17                  Madam President, thank you very

        18       much.

        19                  THE PRESIDENT:    Reading of the

        20       Journal.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

        22       Sunday, April 3, the Senate met pursuant to

        23       adjournment.  The Journal of Saturday,

        24       April 2, was read and approved.  On motion,

        25       Senate adjourned.



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         1                  THE PRESIDENT:    Without

         2       objection, the Journal stands approved as

         3       read.

         4                  Presentation of petitions.

         5                  Messages from the Assembly.

         6                  Messages from the Governor.

         7                  Reports of standing committees.

         8                  Reports of select committees.

         9                  Communications and reports from

        10       state officers.

        11                  Motions and resolutions.

        12                  Senator Fuschillo.

        13                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

        14       President, on behalf of Senator Morahan, on

        15       page number 26 I offer the following

        16       amendments to Calendar Number 380, Senate

        17       Print Number 2044, and ask that said bill

        18       retain its place on Third Reading Calendar.

        19                  THE PRESIDENT:    The amendments

        20       are received, and the bill will retain its

        21       place on the Third Reading Calendar.

        22                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

        23       President, on behalf of Senator Seward, on

        24       page number 25 I offer the following

        25       amendments to Calendar Number 369, Senate



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         1       Print Number 81, and ask that said bill retain

         2       its place on Third Reading Calendar.

         3                  THE PRESIDENT:    Those amendments

         4       are also received, and that bill will also

         5       retain its place on the Third Reading

         6       Calendar.

         7                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

         8       President, on behalf of Senator Nozzolio, on

         9       page number 12 I offer the following

        10       amendments to Calendar Number 127, Senate

        11       Print Number 1973, and ask that said bill

        12       retain its place on Third Reading Calendar.

        13                  THE PRESIDENT:    The amendments

        14       are received, and the bill will retain its

        15       place on the Third Reading Calendar.

        16                  Senator Spano.

        17                  SENATOR SPANO:    Madam President,

        18       can we proceed to the noncontroversial

        19       calendar, please.

        20                  THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

        21       will read.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        23       130, by Member of the Assembly Cahill,

        24       Assembly Print Number 3627, an act to amend

        25       the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law, in



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         1       relation to a license.

         2                  THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

         3       section.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                  THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

         7                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

         9                  THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

        10       passed.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        12       192, by Senator LaValle --

        13                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

        14       aside.

        15                  THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

        16       aside.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        18       317, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 3016,

        19       an act to amend the General Business Law, in

        20       relation to rental vehicle companies.

        21                  THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

        22       section.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

        24       act shall take effect on the 30th day.

        25                  THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.



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         1                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.

         3                  THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

         4       passed.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         6       340, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 2852,

         7       an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in

         8       relation to evidence.

         9                  THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

        10       section.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        12       act shall take effect on the 30th day.

        13                  THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

        14                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

        16                  THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

        17       passed.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        19       345, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 3157, an

        20       act to --

        21                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

        22       aside.

        23                  THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

        24       aside.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



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         1       347, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3256 --

         2                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

         3       aside.

         4                  THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is laid

         5       aside.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         7       350, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 3328, an

         8       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

         9       penalties for assault and manslaughter.

        10                  THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

        11       section.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

        13       act shall take effect on the first of

        14       November.

        15                  THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

        16                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.  Nays,

        18       2.  Senators Duane and Montgomery recorded in

        19       the negative.

        20                  THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

        21       passed.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        23       353, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 3336, an

        24       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the

        25       crime of surreptitious surveillance.



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         1                  THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

         2       section.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

         4       act shall take effect on the first of

         5       November.

         6                  THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

         7                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

         9                  THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

        10       passed.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        12       400, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 3234, an

        13       act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to

        14       standards and requirements.

        15                  THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

        16       section.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                  THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

        20                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

        22                  THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

        23       passed.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        25       403, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 3521, an



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         1       act to amend the Workers' Compensation Law, in

         2       relation to the presumption.

         3                  THE PRESIDENT:    Read the last

         4       section.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                  THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

         8                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

        10                  THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

        11       passed.

        12                  Senator Spano, that completes the

        13       noncontroversial reading of the calendar.

        14                  SENATOR SPANO:    Can we now

        15       proceed to the controversial reading of the

        16       calendar.

        17                  THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

        18       will ring the bell.

        19                  SENATOR SPANO:    Madam President.

        20                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Spano.

        21                  SENATOR SPANO:    Will you please

        22       ring the bells to inform the members that

        23       we're on the controversial reading of the

        24       calendar.

        25                  THE PRESIDENT:    Yes, we just -- I



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         1       will again request the Secretary to ring the

         2       bell so the members can get to their seats for

         3       the controversial calendar.

         4                  The Secretary will read.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         6       192, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 838A, an

         7       act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

         8       reporting.

         9                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:

        10       Explanation.

        11                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator LaValle,

        12       an explanation has been requested.

        13                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Thank you,

        14       Madam President.

        15                  This is legislation that we have

        16       debated in prior years on this floor.  This

        17       bill has one important change in it that

        18       resulted from prior debates on the bill, and I

        19       will discuss what that change is.

        20                  This bill deals with nonimmigrant

        21       students who come to this country to study

        22       that have an M-1 or an F-1 visa.  They have

        23       received the visa, have indicated they are

        24       coming to a school but then disappear, never

        25       register.  Or they come, register and then



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         1       disappear.

         2                  What we do in this bill is to set

         3       up certain reporting requirements.  And that

         4       when we report information of a student that's

         5       missing to Homeland Security, we also report

         6       this to the State Police.

         7                  One of the changes that we have

         8       made in this legislation that differs from

         9       prior years is we indicate that the New York

        10       State Police shall not hold such person unless

        11       it believes the person poses a threat to the

        12       safety of the citizens of this state.

        13                  In prior debates, some of the

        14       members were concerned that students would be

        15       held against their will, they would be easy

        16       targets and so forth.

        17                  Now, the reason once again for this

        18       bill, we cannot, in the time that we live, in

        19       the period of time that we live, post-9/11, be

        20       too careful.  We have to make sure that

        21       students who come into our country to avail

        22       themselves of quality education are here for

        23       that purpose.  And if they haven't registered

        24       when they were supposed to register or they

        25       registered and then disappear, we want to know



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         1       where they are, whether they have, just

         2       because of their youth, kind of taken off and

         3       have become kind of playful, or they have

         4       taken off to do not good things.

         5                  And we want to be able to have our

         6       law enforcement people armed with the

         7       information so that we are protecting, to the

         8       greatest extent possible, our citizens.

         9                  We also ask our colleges to provide

        10       information that the colleges have but is not

        11       available, and that is the number of graduate

        12       and undergraduate students by country of

        13       origin and the number of students enrolled by

        14       degree program and country of origin.

        15                  That information I know I sought

        16       and could not get that information anyplace.

        17       And so we are asking the colleges -- we're not

        18       looking for individual names in that category,

        19       but we want to know what countries are sending

        20       students to our universities and what are they

        21       studying.  We want to know that.

        22                  We also set up penalties under this

        23       legislation, because we want to make sure that

        24       the colleges and universities understand the

        25       importance of this in terms of the safety and



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         1       the welfare of our citizens, considering what

         2       took place after 9/11.

         3                  That's my explanation, Madam

         4       President.

         5                  THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other

         6       member wish to be heard?

         7                  Then the debate is closed.

         8                  Senator Stavisky.

         9                  SENATOR STAVISKY:    I'll explain

        10       my vote instead.

        11                  THE PRESIDENT:    All right.  Thank

        12       you, Senator.

        13                  Senator Schneiderman.

        14                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you.

        15       Thank you, Gov -- Governor? -- Madam

        16       President.

        17                  Would the sponsor yield for a few

        18       brief questions.

        19                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Sure.  Yes.

        20                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you.

        21                  Is there any other state in the

        22       country that imposes a separate requirement

        23       for reporting to its state police in addition

        24       to the requirement imposed under the SEVIS

        25       system for reporting to the federal



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         1       government?

         2                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    We believe that

         3       states like Florida and Texas have reporting

         4       to their state police.

         5                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

         6       you, Madam President, how long have those

         7       systems been in effect?

         8                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    I can't answer

         9       that, Senator.  But obviously it has to be

        10       since 2001, would be my guess.

        11                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    And

        12       through you, Madam President, if the sponsor

        13       would continue to yield.

        14                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Yes.

        15                  THE PRESIDENT:    The sponsor does

        16       continue to yield, Senator Schneiderman.  You

        17       may proceed with a question.

        18                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    This

        19       legislation as redrafted, and I appreciate the

        20       effort to improve it, requires the officials

        21       of the designated schools to report to the

        22       federal government and also simultaneously to

        23       report to the State Police, does it not?

        24                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Yes.

        25                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    And then



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         1       this legislation goes on to require, quote,

         2       the New York State Police shall immediately

         3       notify the proper federal authorities.

         4                  That's in addition to the

         5       requirement that the college officials notify

         6       the federal authority.

         7                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Yes.  And that

         8       is obviously if they're encountering someone.

         9       Now, we can't -- ideally, if the federal

        10       government has this information, which they

        11       do, ideally they should be reporting to every

        12       state and every state police.

        13                  We can't mandate that.  So the best

        14       we can do is here in New York ensure that our

        15       State Police are being vigilant and part of

        16       the loop.

        17                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you.

        18       And through you, Madam President, if the

        19       sponsor would continue to yield.

        20                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Yes, I will.

        21                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator LaValle

        22       does yield.  You may proceed with a question,

        23       Senator.

        24                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    This

        25       legislation then goes on to require that the



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         1       New York State Police shall not hold such

         2       person -- referring, I guess, to the foreign

         3       student -- unless it believes the person poses

         4       a threat to the safety of the citizens of the

         5       state.

         6                  How are the New York State Police

         7       to make a determination as to whether or not a

         8       person identified to them poses a threat to

         9       the safety of the citizens of the state?

        10                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    I would

        11       imagine, Senator, that they would use the same

        12       criteria as they do under Terry to stop and

        13       frisk.  That police, I think, are trained and

        14       have a protocol in seeing individuals that are

        15       in -- that either look suspicious or are in a

        16       certain circumstance that they would stop them

        17       and pursue a certain line of questioning and

        18       so forth.

        19                  So that language, again, Senator,

        20       was included because of prior debates where

        21       people thought that law enforcement people

        22       might be frivolous in their conduct in

        23       stopping someone and retaining them for a long

        24       period of time.

        25                  So I think what we are doing is



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         1       really saying, you know, you need to go

         2       through a protocol that is established before

         3       you move forward and hold an individual for a

         4       protracted period of time.

         5                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you.

         6       Thank the sponsor.

         7                  Madam President, on the bill.

         8                  THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed

         9       on the bill, Senator.

        10                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I

        11       sincerely appreciate, in a house where we

        12       frequently see bills that come to us in the

        13       same flawed form for more than a decade at a

        14       time, anyone who attempts to work on a bill

        15       and make it better.

        16                  I do feel that we have not got

        17       before us today a bill that really fits

        18       effectively into the existing framework for

        19       law enforcement regarding foreign students.

        20                  The federal system, which is really

        21       very, very new -- August 2004 marked the

        22       one-year requirement for all international

        23       students to register under the SEVIS system --

        24       was designed to create a seamless flow of

        25       information where everywhere in the United



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         1       States had the same information, where the

         2       federal government was able to monitor this.

         3                  Keeping in mind that we are not

         4       talking about monitoring people who are

         5       accused of committing any crime.  We're

         6       talking about people who simply don't show up

         7       when you're expecting them to show up for

         8       school.

         9                  So this legislation as proposed

        10       today would take our overburdened State Police

        11       and impose a requirement on them that they

        12       don't want; take our overburdened and, I would

        13       respectfully submit, in many cases underfunded

        14       colleges and universities and impose a burden

        15       on them that they don't want; and impose a set

        16       of requirements that overlap with most of the

        17       federal requirements, although not precisely.

        18                  This is precisely the kind of

        19       confusing system that the SEVIS system and the

        20       efforts of the Homeland Security Department to

        21       consolidate information relating to immigrants

        22       and to foreign students are designed to

        23       prevent.

        24                  So what we have here is a bill that

        25       would say -- and I'm just reading from the



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         1       bill -- if a student, quote, has failed to

         2       report to the designated school official at

         3       the time he or she is expected to commence his

         4       or her program of study, such official shall

         5       simultaneously report such noncompliance to

         6       the federal agency and to the New York State

         7       Police.

         8                  So that means if someone is a week

         9       late to class, you already have whatever

        10       reporting requirements you have under the

        11       SEVIS system to the federal government.  That

        12       student may have shown in another state at a

        13       school.  We don't know; our State Police have

        14       no way of knowing.

        15                  This imposes on our State Police,

        16       then, some sort of an obligation, although

        17       it's not clear to me what it is, to

        18       investigate the situation because it provides

        19       that the police can't hold someone unless they

        20       believe the person poses a threat to the

        21       safety of the citizens of the state.

        22       Obviously there's some sort of an inquiry that

        23       is suggested there; they have to conduct some

        24       sort of investigation to determine if that

        25       person poses a threat to the safety of the



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         1       citizens of the state.

         2                  Then the State Police have the same

         3       obligation imposed under law that the college

         4       already fulfilled, to report to the federal

         5       government.

         6                  So I respectfully submit that this

         7       is a mess.  This is not something that makes

         8       our state safer, this is something that

         9       creates more confusion.

        10                  We have, again, a situation here

        11       where we are monitoring hundreds of thousands

        12       of people, and in New York State I believe we

        13       have in excess of 70,000 foreign students now

        14       studying in our colleges and universities.

        15       Many of them make major contributions, are

        16       outstanding students.

        17                  We're setting up a system to

        18       monitor the activities of thousands of

        19       law-abiding students who are here to pursue an

        20       education.  And many of them stay in this

        21       country and contribute substantially to the

        22       welfare of our state and of our nation.

        23                  We shouldn't be creating a second

        24       system that has the tremendous potential to

        25       inconvenience these people, to have people



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         1       wrongfully held when they shouldn't be held,

         2       to have investigations opened on people who

         3       simply are going to a different school than we

         4       expect them.

         5                  And there is no real guidance -- if

         6       I was a state police, I certainly wouldn't

         7       support this.  I don't know what my obligation

         8       is other than this duplicative requirement to

         9       report to the federal government and to

        10       undertake some sort of an inquiry as to

        11       whether students who don't show up for class

        12       constitute a threat to the safety of the

        13       citizens of the state.

        14                  So for all of the reasons stated in

        15       last year's debate and the other reasons that

        16       we've identified here, I just don't think this

        17       legislation as drafted gets the job done.

        18                  I think we should be working with

        19       the federal government, we should trying to

        20       support our colleges and universities in their

        21       already substantial obligation to collect data

        22       and report to the federal system.  We're not

        23       providing them enough money for that, much

        24       less the money to impose a simultaneous

        25       requirement that they also report to the State



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         1       Police and that the State Police undertake

         2       some unspecified form of investigation.  And

         3       the colleges and universities under this bill

         4       are at risk of fines and other penalties.

         5                  So I don't think this is going to

         6       make us safer, I think it is going to make

         7       things more confused.  I think it creates the

         8       potential for innocent people -- whether

         9       administrators of colleges, foreign students,

        10       or overwhelmed state troopers trying to figure

        11       out what student that was late for class is a

        12       threat to the safety of the citizens -- to

        13       suffer an undue burden.  We shouldn't be

        14       imposing more mandates unless they are very

        15       carefully thought through on our colleges and

        16       universities and on our State Police.

        17                  For that reason and for the others

        18       stated, Madam President, I'm going to be

        19       voting no on this bill.  Again, with due

        20       regard for the seriousness of the issue and

        21       for the sponsor's sincere efforts to redraft

        22       the legislation to make it work better, I

        23       still think we have another round of

        24       redrafting to do.

        25                  Thank you.



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         1                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

         2       Hassell-Thompson.

         3                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

         4       you, Madam President.  Just a couple of quick

         5       questions, if the Senator would yield.

         6                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator LaValle,

         7       will you yield for a question?

         8                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Yes.

         9                  THE PRESIDENT:    He does yield.

        10       You may proceed, Senator.

        11                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

        12       you, Madam President.

        13                  We've just heard from Senator

        14       Schneiderman that the federal law already

        15       requires reporting requirements for our

        16       students.  The question that I need to ask is,

        17       is there anything in the New York State law

        18       that impedes the federal statute or the

        19       process?

        20                  In other words, if there is a

        21       federal regulation that we track students and

        22       this information is already readily available

        23       and it's on a computer system that our

        24       New York State Police can access, why is --

        25       what is it that makes us need something



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         1       separate, something different?

         2                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Senator, I

         3       think that we are trying to make this as easy

         4       as possible for our law enforcement people.

         5                  I think if we really cut to the

         6       chase on this, you know, I could make all the

         7       changes incorporated that various members

         8       would want and I'm afraid that there would

         9       always be a reason not to vote for this bill.

        10       I think it's more of a philosophical

        11       difference or an approach than the nuts and

        12       bolts in this.

        13                  I believe, as the sponsor, there

        14       are other states, you heard, that give to

        15       their state police the information.  It's very

        16       simple.  There's nothing confusing about it.

        17       Senator Schneiderman thinks this legislation

        18       is confusing.  There's nothing confusing about

        19       it.  Straightforward.  Straightforward.  You

        20       give information to the federal government,

        21       you send a copy to the State Police.  It's not

        22       a big deal.  There's nothing confusing about

        23       that.  Nothing.

        24                  I believe that, and it's fine,

        25       people have different philosophical approaches



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         1       in terms of policy and who that should impact

         2       or who that should not impact.  I, as the

         3       sponsor, believe that, given the time that we

         4       live in, that there's nothing wrong with

         5       giving some of the best-trained law

         6       enforcement people in the country, our

         7       New York State Police, information, more

         8       information.  It's like, to me, it's a

         9       no-brainer.  I mean, I don't understand what

        10       the big deal is.

        11                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Madam

        12       President, if the sponsor would continue to

        13       yield.

        14                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator LaValle,

        15       will you yield for a question?

        16                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Yes, I do.

        17                  THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed.

        18                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:

        19       Senator LaValle, take my question separate

        20       from the discussion that you had with Senator

        21       Schneiderman.  My question had nothing to do

        22       with fixing or tampering.

        23                  My question simply was, is there

        24       anything --

        25                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    And the answer



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         1       is no, there is nothing.

         2                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Okay,

         3       the simple answer is no, there is nothing in

         4       the New York State law that would impede the

         5       to use the process that's already in place by

         6       the federal statute?  That's the question.

         7                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Your question

         8       presupposes that the State Police have access,

         9       can have access into the federal system, and

        10       that is not clear, whether they can retrieve

        11       that information.

        12                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    All

        13       right, that's the basis, Madam President.  If

        14       the sponsor would continue to yield.

        15                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator LaValle,

        16       will you yield for another question?

        17                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Yes.

        18                  THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed

        19       with a question.

        20                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Okay,

        21       that's the basis of my question.

        22                  Because my understanding is there's

        23       something called SEVIS, which is a system by

        24       which the federal government makes -- has

        25       available to it information about every



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         1       foreign student, and that is information that

         2       currently is available and could be accessible

         3       by the State Police.

         4                  But if you're telling me that

         5       there's something in the New York State

         6       statute that does not make that process

         7       simplified, then I can agree that this bill is

         8       necessary.

         9                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    I have been

        10       told that it simply is not.

        11                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Okay.

        12       Thank you, Madam President.

        13                  THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other

        14       member wish to be heard?

        15                  Senator Stavisky, first, and then

        16       Senator Volker.

        17                  SENATOR STAVISKY:    Madam

        18       President, on the bill.

        19                  THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed

        20       on the bill.

        21                  SENATOR STAVISKY:    It seems to me

        22       that the purposes of the colleges and

        23       universities is to educate our students under

        24       the supervision and direction of the State

        25       Education Department and, by implication, the



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         1       Regents.  And the purpose of the Department of

         2       Homeland Security is to protect us.

         3                  And I think we ought to let each

         4       one do their job.  This information about

         5       foreign students is available through the

         6       SEVIS system, from what I understand.  Whether

         7       it's in the same format as the State Police

         8       would like to receive it seems to be under

         9       dispute.

        10                  But it seems to me that by placing

        11       an additional burden on the colleges and

        12       universities, we're just making it more

        13       difficult for them to do their job and for the

        14       State Education Department to do its job.  And

        15       for that reason, I plan to vote no.

        16                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Volker.

        17                  SENATOR VOLKER:    Madam

        18       President -- and I hesitate to say this, but

        19       in behalf of Senator Balboni and myself --

        20       who's not here -- this is a homeland security

        21       problem that we're just getting into now.

        22                  We do not have direct access to

        23       SEVIS.  The problem with the homeland security

        24       system is we are just developing it.  I mean,

        25       the -- I realize that CUNY in particular is



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         1       just supersensitive to anything that deals

         2       with foreign students.  And we understand

         3       that.  There's lots of reasons for it.  And

         4       SUNY is not as sensitive.  And lobbyists for

         5       CUNY immediately say this has got to be some

         6       sort of plot.  And I understand it.

         7                  The problem here is we know, there

         8       is no question that al-Qaida has been

         9       directing certain people into this country --

        10       not just students, a lot of other people.  We

        11       have all sorts of information that they are

        12       sending people in here under pretext.

        13                  Now, all that happens with this

        14       bill is that we develop -- I think

        15       temporarily, because at some point we'll have

        16       a seamless system.  But it isn't going to be

        17       for a long time.  And the reason is that the

        18       whole homeland security system, we hate to

        19       admit this, we probably have the best so far

        20       in the country, we are reputed.  Which is

        21       scary to us, because we think we're just in

        22       our infancy.

        23                  This budget, by the way, has the

        24       first major increase in homeland security

        25       money by the state ever, really.  Because most



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         1       of the money is federal.  And I can tell you

         2       some things about some of the stuff that are

         3       in the budget that are federally reimbursable

         4       that we don't even seem to know.  But that's

         5       neither here nor there.

         6                  But the problem here is, what's

         7       going to happen here is, in my opinion, it's

         8       going to be more of a problem if we don't do

         9       this for students.  Because you're going to

        10       have counter-referencing back through the

        11       State Police from the feds.  You're better off

        12       to have the State Police have this information

        13       so that they don't get into problems with

        14       certain students.  That's my opinion.

        15                  Personally, I would rather have

        16       this information go to homeland security

        17       directly, but we are not capable right now.

        18       Our computers and all the rest of the stuff,

        19       you can't feed this stuff around in a big

        20       circle yet.  It's going to take a few years.

        21       At some point the federal government will be

        22       able, it seems to me, to develop a seamless

        23       process.  Right now, if you try to get

        24       information out of the federal government on a

        25       quick basis, you're going to have a devil of a



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         1       time, I'll tell you.  Unless it turns out to

         2       be somebody who is named as a bomber or

         3       something like that, which is not very likely.

         4                  We're talking about people who may

         5       be bothered, by the way, by law enforcement

         6       people simply because they may not be in

         7       school for a while if you don't have

         8       information on them.  Personally, I think this

         9       is to advantage for some of the people who may

        10       get sick, or whatever, and leave.  I don't

        11       think the people realize the sensitivity here.

        12                  We're a state that has already been

        13       under attack.  Many people believe that it's

        14       inevitable that at some point it's going to

        15       happen again.  God forbid.  If we are going to

        16       protect ourselves, we have to do some things

        17       that are somewhat distasteful to us but do it

        18       in the best and most benign way.

        19                  I don't see -- this is not as if

        20       the State Police are going to run out and pick

        21       up people.  All they want to do is have the

        22       information.

        23                  Classic example, there has been a

        24       case like this where a student was in a

        25       university, left the university, in effect was



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         1       gone for two months, was picked up in a van

         2       with a known terrorist and with the

         3       possibility of bomb-making material.  There

         4       was no information on that student.  Nothing.

         5                  If the State Police had this

         6       information, they'd know right away that that

         7       student hadn't been in school for four weeks

         8       or whatever, and you wouldn't have to feed it

         9       back through the FBI and get it out of the

        10       national Homeland Security Department.  We

        11       still don't have a seamless system.  It will

        12       probably be years before we develop a seamless

        13       system.

        14                  So I think Senator LaValle's bill

        15       is, frankly, an excellent bill.

        16                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

        17       Marcellino.

        18                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you.

        19       Just briefly on the bill.

        20                  This bill is an extremely important

        21       bill, in my mind.  And I thank Senator LaValle

        22       for introducing it and bringing it back again,

        23       because he's doing a great service.

        24                  The students we're talking about

        25       are people who made a deal, they made a



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         1       contract with this country.  The contract was

         2       for admission into the country.  They were

         3       going to go to a school in this country and

         4       get an education.

         5                  They've broken their contract.  In

         6       many cases they don't even show up.  They

         7       don't go near the school.  The school reserved

         8       a spot for them, a spot someone else could

         9       have taken, someone who wanted an education

        10       could have had.  But because these students

        11       had that spot, blocked it out, another person

        12       can't get in.

        13                  They're doing the disservice.

        14       They're breaking the law.  They've broken the

        15       law of the United States.  If you're going to

        16       come here, you've got a visa, the visa has a

        17       purpose, there's a time limit on it, you must

        18       obey the law.  We're making a mockery of our

        19       system of laws, we're making a mockery of our

        20       schools, who just take the money.

        21                  What inconvenience the school has,

        22       to provide the government with a list of

        23       students who are supposed to be enrolled and

        24       then didn't?  I don't understand the

        25       inconvenience.  We don't know where these



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         1       students are, we don't know -- calling them a

         2       student is a misnomer.  We don't even know

         3       where anybody is.

         4                  Let's find them.  And if they're

         5       going to go to school, fine.  If they're not,

         6       they should leave the country.  They don't

         7       belong here.  It's as simple as that.  They're

         8       welcome if they come and go to school for the

         9       purpose they're supposed to be.  But if

        10       they're not, go home.

        11                  I don't think that's a big deal.  I

        12       don't think that's an inconvenience on

        13       anybody.  I don't think it's taking away

        14       anybody's rights.  It's protecting this

        15       country.

        16                  THE PRESIDENT:    Any other member

        17       wish to be heard?

        18                  Then the debate is closed.

        19                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

        20                  Read the last section.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        22       act shall take effect on the first of August.

        23                  THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

        24                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        25                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Padavan,



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         1       to explain your vote.

         2                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Thank you,

         3       Madam President.

         4                  Many have said that there are tens

         5       of thousands of young people from all over the

         6       world attending colleges and universities in

         7       this country, and I think basically and

         8       fundamentally that's a good thing.  It's a

         9       good thing in terms of worldwide communication

        10       of what this nation is all about, it's a good

        11       thing in terms of our global economy.  It has

        12       many positive aspects to it.

        13                  Indeed, many of our young people do

        14       a college semester, or sometimes even longer,

        15       in universities throughout the world.  My

        16       daughter was one of them.  She did two years

        17       in a graduate degree in Spain.

        18                  Let me tell you the requirements

        19       that exist in Spain.  Not only did she have to

        20       get a visa, go to the Spanish embassy, provide

        21       a health document, a verification of economic

        22       support and a bunch of other things, but every

        23       three months in Madrid, Spain, she had to make

        24       her presence known, as a student, to the local

        25       police department, physically had to go there.



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         1                  So this is not a unique requirement

         2       in any respect.  And the bill makes sense.

         3                  But in another way, it doesn't go

         4       far enough.  We know there are thousands and

         5       thousands of foreign students in our colleges

         6       and universities here in New York City and

         7       New York State who do not have student visas.

         8       They are simply here and enrolled.

         9                  And if you want to verify that

        10       fact, ask CUNY to give, as they gave to me,

        11       their internal survey and look at the student

        12       application which says:  Are you a citizen or

        13       not, yes or no?  And if you say no, that's it,

        14       you still get enrolled.

        15                  Now, what are we doing about that?

        16       Absolutely nothing.  Absolutely nothing.

        17                  This bill at least deals with a

        18       part of the issue, provides some reporting

        19       mechanism.  And perhaps if it's implemented,

        20       we could expand it to those who are on the

        21       campuses of our schools in this state without

        22       even a student visa.  Because to me that

        23       presents even a more difficult situation to

        24       accept, and perhaps a more potential problem.

        25                  I vote aye.



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         1                  THE PRESIDENT:    You will be so

         2       recorded as voting in the affirmative, Senator

         3       Padavan.

         4                  The Secretary will announce the

         5       results.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

         7       the negative on Calendar Number 192 are

         8       Senators Andrews, Breslin, Brown, Diaz, Duane,

         9       Gonzalez, Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger,

        10       C. Kruger, Montgomery, Paterson, Sabini,

        11       Sampson, Savino, Serrano, A. Smith, M. Smith

        12       and Stavisky.

        13                  Those Senators absent from voting:

        14       Bonacic, Connor, Dilan and Parker.

        15                  Also in the negative, Senator

        16       Schneiderman.

        17                  Ayes, 36.  Nays, 19.

        18                  THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

        19       passed.

        20                  The Secretary will continue to

        21       read.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        23       345, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 3157, an

        24       act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

        25       sentencing.



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         1                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:

         2       Explanation.

         3                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos,

         4       an explanation has been requested.

         5                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Madam President,

         6       this legislation would authorize the

         7       imposition of a sentence of life imprisonment

         8       without the possibility of parole for

         9       persistent violent felony offenders convicted

        10       of a violent felony offense when such person

        11       has been previously been subject to two or

        12       more predicate violent felony convictions

        13       within a ten-year period.

        14                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

        15       Montgomery.

        16                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, Madam

        17       President, I would like to know if the sponsor

        18       would yield for a question.

        19                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos,

        20       do you yield?

        21                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes, Madam

        22       President.

        23                  THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed

        24       with a question, Senator.

        25                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes.



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         1       Senator Skelos, I note that among the charges

         2       that qualify under this three-strikes

         3       legislation is second-degree robbery,

         4       burglary, assault.

         5                  So is it true that this would cover

         6       those kinds of charges on a "three strikes and

         7       you're in for life" basis?

         8                  SENATOR SKELOS:    It's listed

         9       under that section of the law, yes.

        10                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Under that

        11       section, all right.

        12                  Thank you, Madam President.

        13                  And I note that I have opposed this

        14       legislation in the past.  I think we should

        15       look to other states where they have this kind

        16       of law, particularly California, where the

        17       prisons are overflowing, bulging with people

        18       who have essentially stolen a pair of

        19       dungarees as their third offense, and they're

        20       in for life.

        21                  So I think that this really is over

        22       the top.  We are going way beyond what is

        23       required in order to deal with some of the

        24       areas of crime that are covered under this.

        25       There are much better, less costly to



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         1       taxpayers and more effective ways of dealing

         2       with this.

         3                  So I'm going to continue to oppose

         4       this legislation.  I think for the -- for our

         5       state, the benefit of our state's economy, we

         6       cannot afford to go into a criminal justice

         7       program that essentially in the long run will

         8       bankrupt us.  So I'm voting no on this.

         9                  THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other

        10       member wish to be heard?

        11                  Then the debate is closed.

        12                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

        13                  Read the last section.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

        15       act shall take effect on the first of

        16       November.

        17                  THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

        18                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Diaz, to

        20       explain your vote.

        21                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Thank you, Madam

        22       President.

        23                  Besides being a state senator, I am

        24       also a pastor of a church.  And I believe in

        25       pardons, and I believe in people being --



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         1       people changing their life.

         2                  However, I also, when I took my

         3       duty as a senator, I took it because there's

         4       crimes in the city, criminals are coming into

         5       their own, and there was no end to it.

         6                  And I believe a person that has

         7       been found guilty of a felony and that that

         8       person will become a violent felony offender,

         9       and for that to happen, that person is

        10       supposed to be guilty of kidnapping,

        11       first-degree rape or sodomy, first- or

        12       second-degree, robbery, burglary, assault or

        13       aggravated sexual abuse.

        14                  Three times being convicted, a

        15       person like that, I think that that person

        16       should be taken out of the street for the

        17       better and for the good of the rest of the

        18       community.

        19                  I gladly support this bill, and I

        20       praise Senator Skelos for such a bill.

        21                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Diaz, you

        22       will be recorded as voting in the affirmative.

        23                  The Secretary will announce the

        24       results.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in



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         1       the negative on Calendar Number 345 are

         2       Senators Andrews, Duane, Hassell-Thompson,

         3       L. Krueger, Montgomery, Paterson,

         4       Schneiderman, Serrano and A. Smith.

         5                  Those Senators absent from voting:

         6       Connor, Dilan and Parker.  Also Senator

         7       Bonacic.

         8                  Ayes, 46.  Nays, 9.

         9                  THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

        10       passed.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        12       347, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3256, an

        13       act to amend the Penal Law and the Criminal

        14       Procedure Law, in relation to term of

        15       imprisonment.

        16                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:

        17       Explanation.

        18                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Volker,

        19       Senator Schneiderman has requested an

        20       explanation.

        21                  SENATOR VOLKER:    Madam President,

        22       colleagues, this is a bill -- and probably the

        23       last time you'll see this bill -- very close

        24       to the bill that was sponsored just before.

        25                  The fascinating part of this bill



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         1       is it's been around since 1995.  It is, I

         2       believe, the original "three times and you're

         3       out" bill, which my former counsel and I just

         4       figured Ken Connolly, who's here and went to

         5       DCJS, and he's now retired back with us, I

         6       believe drafted this bill.

         7                  If you read the memo -- and I would

         8       ask my colleagues to read the memo, because

         9       the reason it's important is that this is a

        10       crossover memo and shows where we have come in

        11       the last ten years since we have passed tough

        12       legislation, the death penalty and all sorts

        13       of legislation dealing with tough criminal

        14       statutes and at the same time dealing with the

        15       issue of what we call nonviolent crimes.

        16                  At the time of this bill, the

        17       prison population was at about 74,000 to

        18       75,000 or higher.  It is now in the lower 60s.

        19       This is a three-times-and-you're-out bill.

        20       Joe Morelle sponsors it in the Assembly.  Its

        21       passed this house every year since '95.

        22                  It, as I say, was a changeover

        23       because, if you look at the previous penalties

        24       for three-times-and-you're-out, they were

        25       much, much more lenient.  We have actually



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         1       done upgrades in a whole series of areas since

         2       then.  And now Senator Skelos, my colleague,

         3       has what I call the main bill.

         4                  But there's a reason that I thought

         5       it was important to at least put this bill

         6       out.  It really outlines what this house has

         7       been doing over the last ten years in criminal

         8       justice to deal with the criminal problem and

         9       what Governor Pataki has helped us to do.

        10                  So my personal opinion is this

        11       still is a valid bill.  However, it is very,

        12       very close to Senator Skelos's.  And I thought

        13       that we should at least put this bill onto the

        14       floor.  And as I say, I would just ask my

        15       colleagues to keep the memo on this bill as

        16       one of the longest standing bills in my

        17       committee.  It's about to eventually see its

        18       demise.

        19                  But it's amazing how time has

        20       changed and changed our criminal justice

        21       system in this state.  And we would hope that

        22       we don't make foolish attempts, like some

        23       people in the Assembly would have us do, to

        24       denigrate the criminal justice system and take

        25       us back to the bad old days when we had



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         1       75,000 inmates and we had people coming in and

         2       out of prison every other day, and when the

         3       violent prison population was 23 percent

         4       instead of 75 percent, as it is today.

         5                  So I just want to say to people,

         6       you can criticize this bill and its intent and

         7       all that, but a lot of the things that are in

         8       this bill have happened under the present

         9       Governor, and with the help of this Senate.

        10                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

        11       Schneiderman.

        12                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

        13       Madam President.

        14                  I must rise with respect to the

        15       bill memo and the bill.  This demonstrates the

        16       point I was making earlier with regard to

        17       Senator LaValle's bill.  I appreciate him

        18       updating his legislation.

        19                  This bill memo is 10 years old.  It

        20       states, in justification for the bill we're

        21       voting on now, "Unmistakably, crimes of

        22       violence in this state are on the rise.  Each

        23       day our court dockets are filled with greater

        24       and greater numbers of cases charging offenses

        25       that are striking in their savagery and



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         1       chilling in their randomness."

         2                  That was 10 years ago.

         3       Unmistakably, crimes of violence in this state

         4       are on the decline.  The prison population is

         5       going down.  We have had extraordinary success

         6       through, I would respectfully submit, the

         7       actions of the police and through better

         8       policing policies primarily, but we've done it

         9       without a "three strikes and you're out"

        10       policy.

        11                  We've done much better than

        12       California during that period, which does have

        13       a "three strikes and you're out" policy.

        14       We've done it without the death penalty, and

        15       we've done much better than states that have

        16       the death penalty.

        17                  So, look, I support Senator

        18       Volker's effort to get this bill into the

        19       one-house-wonders hall of fame.  This has been

        20       here with us for longer than I have been here.

        21       I think it's -- it made the point.  But the

        22       point that is made really more articulately

        23       than any other by this is let's think

        24       carefully.  Things that appear to be tougher

        25       on crime are not necessarily the things that



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         1       result in a reduction of crime.  Let's think

         2       carefully as we apply serious sanctions to our

         3       citizens.

         4                  I'm pleased to be able to speak at

         5       the memorial for this bill.  I look forward to

         6       further improvements in our criminal justice

         7       system.  We don't need a "three strikes and

         8       you're out" policy to reduce crime in this

         9       state.  That's what proved by how outdated

        10       this bill memo is.

        11                  Thank you, Madam President.

        12                  THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other

        13       member wish to be heard?

        14                  Then the debate is closed.

        15                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

        16                  Read the last section.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                  THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

        20                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

        22       DeFrancisco, to explain your vote.

        23                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes.  I'm

        24       going to vote no on this bill, not because of

        25       the "three strikes and you're out" provision,



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         1       but there's a provision in here that prohibits

         2       plea bargaining down from a violent felony

         3       offense if this happens to be the third

         4       violent felony offense that someone is

         5       indicted for.

         6                  That, to me, really restricts the

         7       hand of the prosecutor.  You may very well

         8       want to charge somebody, you think you have a

         9       case, a violent felony offense, and then when

        10       you start the trial you may find out that you

        11       don't have one.

        12                  So what does the prosecutor do at

        13       that point?  Simply continue on with an

        14       offense and not reduce it and end up with a

        15       possible not-guilty finding.

        16                  So I think restricting plea

        17       bargaining really restricts the hand of the

        18       prosecutor, and I don't think that should in

        19       this bill.  So I'm going to vote no for that

        20       reason.

        21                  THE PRESIDENT:    You will be so

        22       recorded as voting in the negative, Senator

        23       DeFrancisco.

        24                  Senator Volker.

        25                  SENATOR VOLKER:    To explain my



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         1       vote.

         2                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Volker,

         3       to explain his vote.

         4                  SENATOR VOLKER:    Senator

         5       DeFrancisco, if I just might say that I think

         6       you're right.  When I was doing defense work

         7       many years ago, as I did for some time, I

         8       probably would have agreed with you.

         9                  But now that I'm not doing any more

        10       defense work, I'm going to vote aye.

        11                  (Laughter.)

        12                  THE PRESIDENT:    So we will record

        13       you as voting in the affirmative, Senator

        14       Volker.

        15                  Senator Diaz, to explain your vote.

        16                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Thank you, Madam

        17       President.

        18                  Again, as I said before, I'm a

        19       pastor of a church.  A few months ago, Sunday,

        20       a member, a lady member of my church coming to

        21       the church, on her way to a church, a

        22       criminal, a criminal came running after her

        23       with a knife and slashed her face.  One

        24       hundred stitches was taken in her face.

        25                  And then I come here and I got



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         1       elected, and when I got elected, part of my

         2       campaign was that I would protect the victims,

         3       not the criminals.  And that I would do

         4       everything possible to send criminals to jail.

         5       Because criminals don't deserve to be in the

         6       street.

         7                  And we, when we go out there

         8       campaigning, we're saying:  Vote for me

         9       because I will fight crimes and I will bring

        10       safer streets and whatever.  And then when we

        11       come here, the whole thing changes.

        12                  It doesn't matter how long a bill

        13       has been put in here.  It doesn't matter how

        14       long.  That doesn't make wrong -- that doesn't

        15       make a person wrong because the bill doesn't

        16       pass.  Or sometimes it doesn't make it right

        17       if the bill passes.

        18                  What makes it right is your

        19       position against crime.  And I hope that we

        20       are here -- all of us, Democrat, Republican --

        21       that when we got elected, we got elected to

        22       protect the victims, not the criminals.  And

        23       that's why I'm voting yes for this bill.

        24                  THE PRESIDENT:    You will be

        25       recorded as voting in the affirmative,



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         1       Senator.

         2                  The Secretary will announce the

         3       results.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

         5       the negative on Calendar Number 347 are

         6       Senators Andrews, DeFrancisco, Duane,

         7       Gonzalez, L. Krueger, Montgomery, Paterson,

         8       Schneiderman, Serrano.  Also Senator

         9       Hassell-Thompson.

        10                  Those Senators absent from voting

        11       on Calendar Number 347 are Senators Bonacic,

        12       Connor and Parker.

        13                  Ayes, 46.  Nays, 10.

        14                  THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

        15       passed.

        16                  Senator Skelos, that completes the

        17       controversial reading of the calendar.

        18                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Thank you, Madam

        19       President.

        20                  There will be an immediate meeting

        21       of the Rules Committee in the Majority

        22       Conference Room.

        23                  THE PRESIDENT:    There will be an

        24       immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in

        25       the Majority Conference Room.



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         1                  Senator Dilan.

         2                  SENATOR DILAN:    Madam President,

         3       I just want to go on the record that had I

         4       been present for Calendar Number 192 --

         5                  THE PRESIDENT:    If the members

         6       would please refrain from conversing in

         7       chamber.

         8                  SENATOR DILAN:    Had I been

         9       present for Calendars 192 and 345, I would

        10       have cast my vote in the negative.

        11                  THE PRESIDENT:    The record will

        12       so reflect that, Senator.

        13                  SENATOR DILAN:    Thank you.

        14                  THE PRESIDENT:    The Senate stands

        15       at ease.

        16                  (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

        17       ease at 4:34 p.m.)

        18                  (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

        19       at 4:38 p.m.)

        20                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

        21       Marcellino.

        22                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Madam

        23       President, can we return to reports of

        24       standing committees, please.

        25                  THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary



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         1       will read reports of standing committees.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,

         3       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

         4       following bill direct to third reading:

         5                  Senate Print 3685A, by Senator

         6       Skelos, an act to amend the Executive Law.

         7                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

         8       Marcellino.

         9                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Madam

        10       President, is there any further business at

        11       the desk?  I believe you do have a motion, if

        12       we could proceed with that.

        13                  But first, I move to accept the

        14       Rules report.

        15                  THE PRESIDENT:    All in favor of

        16       accepting the Rules Committee report please

        17       signify by saying aye.

        18                  (Response of "Aye.")

        19                  THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

        20                  (Response of "Nay.")

        21                  THE PRESIDENT:    The report is

        22       accepted.

        23                  Senator Breslin.

        24                  SENATOR BRESLIN:    I believe,

        25       Madam President, there's a motion at the desk.



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         1                  THE PRESIDENT:    Yes, there is,

         2       Senator.

         3                  SENATOR BRESLIN:    And can I be

         4       heard on that motion.

         5                  THE PRESIDENT:    You may.

         6                  SENATOR BRESLIN:    This is a

         7       motion that I've made in the past.  It's to

         8       put --

         9                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, first

        10       the Secretary has to read the motion.

        11                  SENATOR BRESLIN:    Excuse me.

        12                  THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you.

        13                  The Secretary will read.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Senate Print

        15       2480, by Senator Breslin, an act to amend the

        16       Social Services Law.

        17                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Breslin.

        18                  SENATOR BRESLIN:    Thank you,

        19       Madam President.

        20                  This is a motion I've made in the

        21       past, and it's to put what we refer to as a

        22       hard cap on Medicaid.

        23                  This year, in this latest budget

        24       this past week, we put a soft cap on it.  We

        25       talked about annual growth factors of



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         1       3.5 percent in 2006, going to 3.25 the next

         2       year and then down to 3.  The Governor,

         3       subsequent to the budget, talked about

         4       tinkering with that and making some changes.

         5                  The county executives in the

         6       counties throughout this state, they do want a

         7       change.  They want one single change to cap

         8       Medicaid and hopefully to cap Medicaid at this

         9       year's level, at 2004 levels.

        10                  Why do they need a cap?  Most of

        11       the counties in the State of New York had over

        12       a 15 percent tax increase last year.

        13       Eighty-five percent of all property taxes that

        14       go to Medicaid across this country come from

        15       New York State.  The remaining states,

        16       15 percent.

        17                  Counties like Albany spend more

        18       than a hundred percent of their property tax

        19       on Medicaid.

        20                  The only way to give relief to the

        21       property taxpayer, the middle-income people,

        22       the people on fixed incomes, retired people,

        23       is to make sure we're not passing down the

        24       mandates.  And how do we do that?  We put the

        25       hard cap on Medicaid.



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         1                  You talk to county executive after

         2       county executive, they're happy we did

         3       something this year.  Do they think it will

         4       work in their county?  No.  They have serious,

         5       serious doubts.

         6                  And I believe that everybody, on

         7       both sides of this aisle, really believe that

         8       it's up to us.  We're the ones that have

         9       passed those mandates down to the county.  And

        10       we're the only ones that can rectify it.  And

        11       we can rectify it on by putting a cap on

        12       Medicaid on the 2004 levels.

        13                  And I urge everyone to support this

        14       motion.

        15                  THE PRESIDENT:    All the Senators

        16       in agreement please signify by raising your

        17       hands.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

        19       agreement are Senators Andrews, Breslin,

        20       Brown, Diaz, Dilan, Duane, Gonzalez,

        21       Hassell-Thompson, Klein, L. Krueger,

        22       C. Kruger, Montgomery, Onorato, Paterson,

        23       Sabini, Sampson, Savino, Schneiderman,

        24       Serrano, A. Smith, M. Smith, Stachowski,

        25       Stavisky and Valesky.



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         1                  THE PRESIDENT:    The petition is

         2       not agreed to.

         3                  Senator Marcellino.

         4                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Is there any

         5       further business, Madam President?

         6                  THE PRESIDENT:    No, there isn't,

         7       Senator Marcellino.

         8                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    There being

         9       no further business, I move we adjourn in the

        10       name of Patricia K. McGee until Tuesday,

        11       April 5th, at 3:00 p.m.

        12                  THE PRESIDENT:    On motion, the

        13       Senate stands adjourned in friendship, love

        14       and respect for Senator Patricia McGee, until

        15       Tuesday, April 5th, at 3:00 p.m.

        16                  (Whereupon, at 4:44 p.m., the

        17       Senate adjourned.)

        18

        19

        20

        21

        22

        23

        24

        25



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