Regular Session - June 21, 2005

                                                            4569



         1                 NEW YORK STATE SENATE

         2

         3

         4                THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

         5

         6

         7

         8

         9                   ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                     June 21, 2005

        11                      11:11 a.m.

        12

        13

        14                    REGULAR SESSION

        15

        16

        17

        18  LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President

        19  STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

        20

        21

        22

        23

        24

        25



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         1                 P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         3       Senate will come to order.

         4                  I ask everyone present to please

         5       rise and repeat with me the Pledge of

         6       Allegiance.

         7                  (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

         8       the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    In the

        10       absence of clergy, may we bow our heads in a

        11       moment of silence.

        12                  (Whereupon, the assemblage

        13       respected a moment of silence.)

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Reading

        15       of the Journal.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

        17       Monday, June 20, the Senate met pursuant to

        18       adjournment.  The Journal of Sunday, June 19,

        19       was read and approved.  On motion, Senate

        20       adjourned.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Without

        22       objection, the Journal stands approved as

        23       read.

        24                  Presentation of petitions.

        25                  Messages from the Assembly.



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         1                  Messages from the Governor.

         2                  Reports of standing committees.

         3                  Reports of select committees.

         4                  Communications and reports from

         5       state officers.

         6                  Motions and resolutions.

         7                  Senator Fuschillo.

         8                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

         9       President, on behalf of Senator Balboni, on

        10       page number 47, I offer the following

        11       amendments to Calendar Number 1331, Senate

        12       Print Number 186B, and ask that said bill

        13       retain its place on Third Reading Calendar.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        15       amendments are received, and the bill will

        16       retain its place on the Third Reading

        17       Calendar.

        18                  Senator Fuschillo.

        19                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Are there any

        20       substitutions at the desk?

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Yes,

        22       Senator.

        23                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    If you would

        24       please take them up.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The



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         1       Secretary will read.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    On page 19,

         3       Senator Robach moves to discharge, from the

         4       Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7187

         5       and substitute it for the identical Senate

         6       Bill Number 4216, Third Reading Calendar 645.

         7                  On page 20, Senator Maziarz moves

         8       to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

         9       Assembly Bill Number 2676 and substitute it

        10       for the identical Senate Bill Number 4881,

        11       Third Reading Calendar 687.

        12                  On page 21, Senator Maltese moves

        13       to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

        14       Assembly Bill Number 1280B and substitute it

        15       for the identical Senate Bill Number 2517B,

        16       Third Reading Calendar 695.

        17                  On page 22, Senator Volker moves to

        18       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

        19       Assembly Bill Number 2349B and substitute it

        20       for the identical Senate Bill Number 1219A,

        21       Third Reading Calendar 731.

        22                  On page 25, Senator Balboni moves

        23       to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

        24       Assembly Bill Number 6362B and substitute it

        25       for the identical Senate Bill Number 4289B,



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         1       Third Reading Calendar 783.

         2                  On page 26, Senator Wright moves to

         3       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

         4       Assembly Bill Number 5608B and substitute it

         5       for the identical Senate Bill Number 3249B,

         6       Third Reading Calendar 810.

         7                  On page 30, Senator Volker moves to

         8       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

         9       Assembly Bill Number 8178B and substitute it

        10       for the identical Senate Bill Number 4343B,

        11       Third Reading Calendar 898.

        12                  On page 31, Senator Valesky moves

        13       to discharge, from the Committee on Local

        14       Government, Assembly Bill Number 3652A and

        15       substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

        16       Number 1738A, Third Reading Calendar 937.

        17                  On page 34, Senator Alesi moves to

        18       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

        19       Assembly Bill Number 7925A and substitute it

        20       for the identical Senate Bill Number 1075A,

        21       Third Reading Calendar 1010.

        22                  On page 37, Senator Robach moves to

        23       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

        24       Assembly Bill Number 7059 and substitute it

        25       for the identical Senate Bill Number 3187,



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         1       Third Reading Calendar 1081.

         2                  On page 40, Senator Golden moves to

         3       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

         4       Assembly Bill Number 5957A and substitute it

         5       for the identical Senate Bill Number 4089B,

         6       Third Reading Calendar 1178.

         7                  On page 40, Senator Saland moves to

         8       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

         9       Assembly Bill Number 75A and substitute it for

        10       the identical Senate Bill Number 4225A, Third

        11       Reading Calendar 1180.

        12                  On page 41, Senator Saland moves to

        13       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

        14       Assembly Bill Number 6082B and substitute it

        15       for the identical Senate Bill Number 5050A,

        16       Third Reading Calendar 1190.

        17                  On page 42, Senator Maziarz moves

        18       to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

        19       Assembly Bill Number 5394A and substitute it

        20       for the identical Senate Bill Number 4476A,

        21       Third Reading Calendar 1222.

        22                  On page 45, Senator Marcellino

        23       moves to discharge, from the Committee on

        24       Rules, Assembly Bill Number 6761B and

        25       substitute it for the identical Senate Bill



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         1       Number 890B, Third Reading Calendar 1267.

         2                  On page 45, Senator Volker moves to

         3       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

         4       Assembly Bill Number 7020 and substitute it

         5       for the identical Senate Bill Number 3118,

         6       Third Reading Calendar 1279.

         7                  On page 48, Senator Skelos moves to

         8       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

         9       Assembly Bill Number 4466A and substitute it

        10       for the identical Senate Bill Number 4811A,

        11       Third Reading Calendar 1369.

        12                  And on page 51, Senator Skelos

        13       moves to discharge, from the Committee on

        14       Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8737 and

        15       substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

        16       Number 5659, Third Reading Calendar 1567.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:

        18       Substitutions ordered.

        19                  Senator Fuschillo.

        20                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

        21       President, please adopt the Resolution

        22       Calendar, with the exception of Resolution

        23       2529.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    All in

        25       favor of adopting the Resolution Calendar,



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         1       with the exception of Resolution Number 2529,

         2       signify by saying aye.

         3                  (Response of "Aye.")

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:

         5       Opposed, nay.

         6                  (No response.)

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         8       Resolution Calendar is adopted.

         9                  Senator Fuschillo.

        10                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

        11       President, may we please have the reading of

        12       the noncontroversial calendar.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        14       Secretary will read.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:     Calendar Number

        16       63, by Senator Little, Senate Print 1052, an

        17       act to amend the Environmental Conservation

        18       Law.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    There

        20       is a local fiscal impact statement at the

        21       desk.

        22                  Read the last section.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        24       act shall take effect immediately.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call



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         1       the roll.

         2                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 39.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         5       bill is passed.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         7       113, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print

         8       1771B, an act to amend the Public Health Law.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        10       the last section.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        14       the roll.

        15                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 39.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        18       bill is passed.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        20       114, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

        21       217A, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic

        22       Law.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        24       the last section.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



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         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

         3       the roll.

         4                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 39.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         7       bill is passed.

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         9       211, by Senator Sampson, Senate Print 742, an

        10       act to amend the Penal Law.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        12       the last section.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

        14       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        16       the roll.

        17                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 41.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        20       bill is passed.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        22       318, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 3344A,

        23       an act to amend the General Business Law.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        25       the last section.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

         4       the roll.

         5                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 41.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         8       bill is passed.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        10       319, by Member of the Assembly Brennan,

        11       Assembly Print Number 4254A, an act to amend

        12       the State Technology Law and the General

        13       Business Law.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        15       the last section.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

        17       act shall take effect on the 120th day.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        19       the roll.

        20                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 41.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        23       bill is passed.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        25       411, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 495A, an



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         1       act to amend the Correction Law.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

         3       the last section.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

         7       the roll.

         8                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 41.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        11       bill is passed.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        13       460, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 2899, an

        14       act to amend the Penal Law.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        16       the last section.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect on the first of

        19       November.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        21       the roll.

        22                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 42.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        25       bill is passed.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         2       508, by Member of the Assembly Parment,

         3       Assembly Print Number 6353, an act to amend

         4       the Tax Law.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    There

         6       is a local fiscal impact statement at the

         7       desk.

         8                  Read the last section.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        12       the roll.

        13                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 41.  Nays,

        15       1.  Senator Valesky recorded in the negative.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        19       523, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 2321, an

        20       act to amend the General Municipal Law.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    There

        22       is a local fiscal impact note at the desk.

        23                  Read the last section.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        25       act shall take effect immediately.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

         2       the roll.

         3                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 42.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         6       bill is passed.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         8       548, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3744A,

         9       an act to amend the Education Law.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        11       the last section.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        15       the roll.

        16                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 42.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        19       bill is passed.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        21       713, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1003, an

        22       act to amend the Penal Law.

        23                  SENATOR SABINI:    Lay it aside.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        25       bill is laid aside.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         2       729, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 268A, an

         3       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

         5       the last section.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect on the 120th day.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

         9       the roll.

        10                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        13       bill is passed.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        15       781, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        16       Print Number 4079A, an act to amend the Tax

        17       Law.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        19       the last section.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        23       the roll.

        24                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         2       bill is passed.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         4       801, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 4775A,

         5       an act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

         7       the last section.

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        11       the roll.

        12                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        15       bill is passed.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        17       816, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 4537A,

        18       an act to amend the Not-For-Profit Corporation

        19       Law.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        21       the last section.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

        23       act shall take effect on the 60th day.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        25       the roll.



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         1                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         4       bill is passed.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         6       837, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 4388A, an

         7       act to amend Chapter 223 of the Laws of 1996.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

         9       the last section.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        13       the roll.

        14                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        19       840, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 419A, an

        20       act to amend the Education Law.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        22       the last section.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

        24       act shall take effect on the 180th day.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call



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         1       the roll.

         2                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 45.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         5       bill is passed.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         7       875, by Member of the Assembly Tonko, Assembly

         8       Print Number 8176, an act to amend the

         9       Long-Term Care Integration and Finance Act of

        10       1997.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        12       the last section.

        13                  SENATOR SABINI:    Lay it aside.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        15       bill is laid aside.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        17       898, substituted earlier today by Member of

        18       the Assembly A. Cohen, Assembly Print Number

        19       8178B, an act to amend the Civil Practice Law

        20       and Rules.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        22       the last section.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

        24       act shall take effect on the first of January

        25       next succeeding.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

         2       the roll.

         3                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         6       bill is passed.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         8       990, by Member of the Assembly Gottfried,

         9       Assembly Print Number 6620, an act to amend

        10       Chapter 521 of the Laws of 1994.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        12       the last section.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        16       the roll.

        17                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        20       bill is passed.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        22       962, by Member of the Assembly Thiele,

        23       Assembly Print Number 7469B, an act to

        24       authorize the Independent Group Home Living

        25       Program, Inc.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

         2       the last section.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

         6       the roll.

         7                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        10       bill is passed.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        12       997, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 3335, an

        13       act --

        14                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Lay it aside

        15       for the day, please.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        17       bill is laid aside for the day.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        19       1010, substituted earlier today by Member of

        20       the Assembly Lafayette, Assembly Print Number

        21       7925A, an act to amend the General Business

        22       Law.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        24       the last section.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This



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         1       act shall take effect on the 180th day.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

         3       the roll.

         4                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         7       bill is passed.

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         9       1020, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 5178,

        10       an act to amend the General Business Law.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        12       the last section.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        16       the roll.

        17                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        20       bill is passed.

        21                  The Secretary will read Calendar

        22       Number 989.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        24       989, by Member of the Assembly Gottfried,

        25       Assembly Print Number 6618, an act to amend



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         1       Chapter 884 of the Laws of 1990.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

         3       the last section.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

         7       the roll.

         8                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        11       bill is passed.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        13       1076, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 2415B,

        14       an act to amend the Civil Service Law.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        16       the last section.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        20       the roll.

        21                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        24       bill is passed.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



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         1       1113, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 4798A,

         2       an act authorizing the assessors of the

         3       Village of Hempstead in the County of Nassau.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

         5       the last section.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

         9       the roll.

        10                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        13       bill is passed.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        15       1146, by Member of the Assembly Stringer,

        16       Assembly Print Number 1377C, an act to amend

        17       the Insurance Law.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        19       the last section.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

        21       act shall take effect on the --

        22                  SENATOR SABINI:    Lay it aside.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        24       bill is laid aside.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



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         1       1149, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5406, an

         2       act prohibiting any employer from issuing

         3       checks.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

         5       the last section.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

         7       act shall take effect one year after the date.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

         9       the roll.

        10                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        13       bill is passed.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        15       1175, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 1788,

        16       an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets

        17       Law.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        19       the last section.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect on the 120th day.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Senator

        23       Sabini, to explain his vote.

        24                  SENATOR SABINI:    Thank you, Madam

        25       President.



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         1                  For the second day in a row, I find

         2       myself complimenting Senator Padavan on a

         3       bill.

         4                  This bill is important because it's

         5       not a well-known fact, but in other countries

         6       they are now seeking to purchase our

         7       racehorses, particularly our champions, for

         8       menu items.  Kentucky Derby winner Ferdinand

         9       was on a special banquet in Japan a few years

        10       ago.  And some feel that it's not only

        11       inhumane, but in some ways anti-American, that

        12       they -- other countries are seeking to do

        13       this.

        14                  And I commend Senator Padavan and

        15       Congressman John Sweeney, who is leading the

        16       effort in the House of Representatives

        17       nationally, to prohibit us from using our

        18       racehorses, after they're finished with their

        19       careers, as food products in other countries.

        20                  I'm voting aye and congratulate the

        21       sponsor.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        23       you.

        24                  Call the roll.

        25                  (The Secretary called the roll.)



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 46.  Nays,

         2       1.  Senator Seward recorded in the negative.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         4       bill is passed.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         6       1190, substituted earlier today by Member of

         7       the Assembly DiNapoli, Assembly Print Number

         8       6082B, an act to amend the Education Law.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        10       the last section.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        12       act shall take effect immediately.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        14       the roll.

        15                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        18       bill is passed.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        20       1198, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4719A,

        21       an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        23       the last section.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        25       act shall take effect immediately.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

         2       the roll.

         3                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         6       bill is passed.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         8       1249, by Member of the Assembly Nesbitt,

         9       Assembly Print Number 4953A, an act to amend

        10       the Correction Law.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        12       the last section.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        16       the roll.

        17                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        20       bill is passed.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        22       1257, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 4656B,

        23       an act to amend the Correction Law.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        25       the last section.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

         2       act shall take effect on the 120th day.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

         4       the roll.

         5                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         8       bill is passed.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        10       1263, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3541, an

        11       act to amend the Social Services --

        12                  SENATOR SABINI:    Lay it aside.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        14       bill is laid aside.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        16       1266, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 494B, an

        17       act to amend the Education Law.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        19       the last section.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

        21       act shall take effect on the 180th day.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        23       the roll.

        24                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         2       bill is passed.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         4       1267, substituted earlier today by Member of

         5       the Assembly DiNapoli, Assembly Print Number

         6       6761B, an act to amend the Education Law and

         7       the General Municipal Law.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

         9       the last section.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        13       the roll.

        14                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        19       1271, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5048B,

        20       an act to amend the Education Law.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        22       the last section.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        24       act shall take effect on the first of July.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call



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         1       the roll.

         2                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         5       bill is passed.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         7       1310, by Member of the Assembly Nolan,

         8       Assembly Print Number 8064, an act to amend

         9       the Banking Law and the State Finance Law.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        11       the last section.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        15       the roll.

        16                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        19       bill is passed.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        21       1316, by Member of the Assembly Brodsky,

        22       Assembly Print Number 7518, an act to amend

        23       the Education Law.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        25       the last section.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect on the 60th day.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

         4       the roll.

         5                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         8       bill is passed.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        10       1352, by Senator Brown, Senate Print 4776A, an

        11       act to amend the Economic Development Law.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        13       the last section.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        17       the roll.

        18                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        21       bill is passed.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        23       1356, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 407, an

        24       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

        25                  SENATOR SABINI:    Lay it aside,



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         1       please.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         3       bill is laid aside.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         5       1369, substituted earlier today by Member of

         6       the Assembly DiNapoli, Assembly Print Number

         7       4466A, an act to amend the Executive Law.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

         9       the last section.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        13       the roll.

        14                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        19       1372, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 5024A, an

        20       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and

        21       the State Finance Law.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        23       the last section.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

        25       act shall take effect on the 180th day.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

         2       the roll.

         3                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         6       bill is passed.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         8       1428, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 5532A,

         9       an act to amend the Penal Law.

        10                  SENATOR SABINI:    Lay it aside.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        12       bill is laid aside.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        14       1444, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 5379A,

        15       an act to amend the Civil Service Law.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        17       the last section.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect on the 180th day.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        21       the roll.

        22                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        25       bill is passed.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         2       1513, by Senator Winner, Senate Print 4835A,

         3       an act to amend the Environmental Conservation

         4       Law.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

         6       the last section.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        10       the roll.

        11                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        14       bill is passed.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        16       1524, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5522A,

        17       an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets

        18       Law.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        20       the last section.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        24       the roll.

        25                  (The Secretary called the roll.)



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         3       bill is passed.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         5       1529, by Senator Winner, Senate Print 5611A,

         6       an act to amend the Public Officers Law.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

         8       the last section.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        12       the roll.

        13                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        16       bill is passed.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        18       1563, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 5641,

        19       an act to amend the General Municipal Law.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        21       the last section.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        25       the roll.



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         1                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         4       bill is passed.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         6       1567, substituted earlier today by the

         7       Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

         8       Number 8737, an act to amend the Education

         9       Law.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        11       the last section.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

        13       act shall take effect July 1, 2005.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        15       the roll.

        16                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        19       bill is passed.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        21       1584, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4137A,

        22       an act in relation to giving Thomas J. Deluca

        23       credit.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        25       the last section.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

         4       the roll.

         5                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         8       bill is passed.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        10       1590, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5424A,

        11       an act to authorize the City of Beacon.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        13       the last section.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 9.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        17       the roll.

        18                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        21       bill is passed.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        23       1602, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 5620,

        24       an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.

        25                  SENATOR SABINI:    Lay it aside.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         2       bill is laid aside.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         4       1615, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 4737B,

         5       an act to amend the Public Officers Law.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

         7       the last section.

         8                  SENATOR SABINI:    Lay it aside.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        10       bill is laid aside.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        12       1626, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5655A, an

        13       act to amend the Tax Law.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

        15       the last section.

        16                  SENATOR SABINI:    Lay it aside.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        18       bill is laid aside.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        20       1627, by Senator Little, Senate Print 5664 --

        21                  SENATOR SABINI:    Lay it aside.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        23       bill is laid aside.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        25       1628, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 5678, an



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         1       act to amend the Tax Law.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Read

         3       the last section.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

         7       the roll.

         8                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Senator

        10       Krueger, to explain her vote.

        11                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        12       Madam President.

        13                  While I've been known to speak out

        14       against tax-reduction bills on this floor

        15       frequently, and I will highlight that this

        16       bill would result in a $192 million estimated

        17       loss of tax revenue to the State of New York,

        18       and we should always factor in how we're going

        19       to make up that money or whether we can afford

        20       to lose tax revenue, as I've said frequently,

        21       I actually am happy to support this bill today

        22       because it addresses a marriage penalty, an

        23       unfair and inequitable tax structure where

        24       married people and unmarried people of the

        25       same income levels are in fact treated



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         1       differently.

         2                  So since I frequently stand to

         3       object to tax-reduction bills, I thought I

         4       would stand to say that I support this bill

         5       and think it's good tax policy.

         6                  Thank you, Madam President.  I'll

         7       be voting for the bill.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         9       you, Senator.  You will be recorded in the

        10       affirmative.

        11                  The Secretary will announce the

        12       results.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 47.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        15       bill is passed.

        16                  Senator Bruno, that completes the

        17       reading of the noncontroversial calendar.

        18                  SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

        19       can we recognize Senator Duane.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    I'm

        21       sorry, I apologize.

        22                  Senator Duane.

        23                  SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

        24       President.

        25                  Unfortunately, due to a small



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         1       family emergency, I was out of the chamber for

         2       Calendar Number 411.  Had I been in the

         3       chamber, I would have voted no on Calendar

         4       Number 411.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         6       you.  The record will so reflect that.

         7                  Senator Bruno.

         8                  SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

         9       I believe that I have a privileged resolution

        10       at the desk.  I would ask that it be read in

        11       its entirety and move for its immediate

        12       adoption.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Motions

        14       and resolutions.

        15                  The Secretary will read.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator Bruno,

        17       Legislative Resolution Number 2529, honoring

        18       the Saratoga Performing Arts Center upon the

        19       occasion of its 40th Anniversary.

        20                  "WHEREAS, The arts, in whatever

        21       form depicted, are central to human

        22       expression.  They are truly a universal

        23       language, and their contribution to the

        24       development of friendship and understanding

        25       among all peoples cannot be overestimated; and



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         1                  "WHEREAS, The history, the

         2       heritage, and the lives of the people of all

         3       countries and all cultures are portrayed in

         4       their music and dance; the art and act of

         5       sharing them enriches us altogether; and

         6                  "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this

         7       Legislative Body to recognize and commend

         8       those musical organizations that have brought

         9       entertainment and cultural enrichment to the

        10       citizens of the great State of New York; and

        11                  "WHEREAS, Attendant to such

        12       concern, and in full accord with its

        13       long-standing traditions, this Legislative

        14       Body is justly proud to honor the Saratoga

        15       Performing Arts Center upon the occasion of

        16       its 40th Anniversary; and

        17                  "WHEREAS, In early February 1961,

        18       Albany newspaperman Duane La Fleche noted a

        19       wire service report about a group hoping to

        20       entice the New York Philharmonic to make

        21       Stowe, Vermont, its summer residence; and

        22                  "WHEREAS, This report set off a

        23       chain reaction of historic proportions.  Local

        24       civic, cultural and legislative leaders, who

        25       had previously considered a Saratoga Arts



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         1       Center an interesting possibility, were

         2       galvanized into action; and

         3                  "WHEREAS, Within a week, they held

         4       their first meeting.  Within a month, they

         5       were focusing on Saratoga Spa State Park as

         6       the site, which had won the support of State

         7       Conservation Commissioner Harold Wilm, and had

         8       begun discussions with both the Philharmonic

         9       and New York City Ballet; and

        10                  "WHEREAS, The group funded start-up

        11       costs out of their own pockets.  Then came the

        12       more formidable challenge of demonstrating

        13       community-wide support to foundations and

        14       philanthropists whose backing would be

        15       critical.  The community came through in

        16       record time; and

        17                  "WHEREAS, By summer 1963, generous

        18       contributions from the Rockefeller Brothers

        19       Fund and New York State supplemented community

        20       support to ensure that the dream would become

        21       reality; and

        22                  "WHEREAS, The New York City

        23       Ballet's George Balanchine joined the

        24       development board, and together with Lincoln

        25       Kirstein helped define both the physical form



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         1       and artistic agenda of the Saratoga Performing

         2       Arts Center.  Soon, The Philadelphia Orchestra

         3       came into the picture, with artistic director

         4       Eugene Ormandy offering his input; and

         5                  "WHEREAS, In February 1964, Richard

         6       Leach became the first executive director of

         7       the Saratoga Performing Arts Center, adding

         8       his programming experience at Lincoln Center

         9       to the mix.  Shortly thereafter, The

        10       Philadelphia Orchestra and New York City

        11       Ballet formalized their commitments, and

        12       construction could begin; and

        13                  "WHEREAS, On July 19, 1966, New

        14       York City Ballet conductor Robert Irving

        15       raised his baton, and George Balanchine's 'A

        16       Midsummer Night's Dream' enchanted the

        17       opening-night audience at the Saratoga

        18       Performing Arts Center; and

        19                  "WHEREAS, The Saratoga Performing

        20       Arts Center Amphitheatre was created as a

        21       nurturing environment for great art.  In every

        22       detail, it was conceived for performances and

        23       performers; and

        24                  "WHEREAS, For architect Arnold H.

        25       Vollmer, dance was the primary concern in



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         1       designing the stage itself.  Honoring the

         2       wishes of George Balanchine and Kirstein,

         3       flooring of cypress and pine layered in a

         4       basketweave pattern for maximum resilience was

         5       installed on the stage and in a rehearsal

         6       studio of identical dimensions; and

         7                  "WHEREAS, Acoustical engineer Paul

         8       S. Veneklassen faced the challenge of

         9       producing optimal sound inside the enormous

        10       open-sided amphitheatre.  With insights from

        11       the artistic director of The Philadelphia

        12       Orchestra, Eugene Ormandy, and working with a

        13       scale model and exotic testing devices, he

        14       designed an exotic series of baffles and

        15       sound-reflecting surfaces that draw out the

        16       full depth of the music, making the Saratoga

        17       Performing Arts Center one of the world's

        18       acoustically acclaimed outdoor performance

        19       venues; and

        20                  "WHEREAS, As the Saratoga

        21       Performing Arts Center's Amphitheatre offers

        22       grandeur, the Spa Little Theatre offers

        23       intimacy, and a rare sense of involvement that

        24       suspends time and banishes mundane concerns;

        25       and



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         1                  "WHEREAS, In various seasons, the

         2       Spa Little Theatre has hosted events ranging

         3       from drama to chamber music to modern dance,

         4       including Director John Houseman's renowned

         5       Repertory Company and the Saratoga Chamber

         6       Music Festival under Music Director Chantal

         7       Juillet, as well as adventurous dance

         8       companies from Twyla Tharp to Merce Cunningham

         9       and Bella Lewitsky; and

        10                  "WHEREAS, The New York City Ballet

        11       will pay tribute to its 40-year Saratoga

        12       Performing Arts Center heritage, opening on

        13       July 5, 2005, with 'A Midsummer Night's

        14       Dream,' which was performed the very first

        15       night of SPAC's inaugural session.  In

        16       addition, several ballets by famed Broadway

        17       choreographer and director Jerome Robbins,

        18       including 'Glass Pieces,' 'Fanfare and

        19       Concertino,' 'Swan Lake,' 'Agon,'

        20       'Harlequinade,' and 'Ballo Della Regina,' will

        21       be presented, as well as three works new to

        22       SPAC:  'Octet,' by NYCB Ballet Master-in-Chief

        23       Peter Martins, and two new works by the

        24       company's resident choreographer, Christopher

        25       Wheeldon; and



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         1                  "WHEREAS, The Saratoga Chamber

         2       Music Festival will present seven concerts

         3       under the music direction of renowned Canadian

         4       violinist Chantal Juillet, August 2 through

         5       21, 2005, to celebrate Saratoga Performing

         6       Arts Center's 40th Anniversary season.

         7       Highlights of the performance season include

         8       an opening-night recital by violinist Lisa

         9       Batiashvili and her husband, Francois Leleux,

        10       on oboe, with brilliant pianist Jean-Yves

        11       Thibaudet; Ranjbaran premieres; piano

        12       performances by Emanuel Ax and Andre Watts;

        13       cellist Daniel Muller-Schott; The Chris

        14       Brubeck Quartet; an evening with acclaimed

        15       violinist Gil Shaham and Skidmore College

        16       Senior Artist-in-Residence Joel Brown on

        17       guitar; and a spectacularly unique evening

        18       with native Argentine pianist Martha Argerich

        19       and her 19-year-old Budapest-born protege,

        20       Geza Szilvay, on violin; and

        21                  "WHEREAS, To celebrate the 40th

        22       Anniversary of the Saratoga Performing Arts

        23       Center, a remarkable roster of classical

        24       soloists will join The Philadelphia Orchestra

        25       and Maestro Charles Dutoit, principal



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         1       conductor and artistic director of the

         2       orchestra's Saratoga season, including Itzhak

         3       Perlman, Emanuel Ax, Andre Watts, Yo-Yo Ma,

         4       Martha Argerich, Jean-Yves Thibaudet, Pulitzer

         5       Prize-winner Marvin Hamlisch, Behzad

         6       Ranjbaran, Lisa Batiashvili, Gil Shaham, Van

         7       Cliburn, and Chantal Juillet; and

         8                  "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this

         9       Legislative Body that when organizations of

        10       such noble aims and accomplishments are

        11       brought to our attention, they should be

        12       celebrated and recognized by all the citizens

        13       of the great State of New York; now,

        14       therefore, be it

        15                  "RESOLVED, That this Legislative

        16       Body pause in its deliberations to honor the

        17       Saratoga Performing Arts Center upon the

        18       occasion of its 40th Anniversary; and be it

        19       further

        20                  "RESOLVED, That a copy of this

        21       resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

        22       to the Saratoga Performing Arts Center."

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Senator

        24       Bruno.

        25                  SENATOR BRUNO:    Thank you, Madam



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         1       President and colleagues.

         2                  It is very, very fitting that we

         3       pass a resolution honoring and recognizing the

         4       40th anniversary of the Performing Arts Center

         5       of Saratoga.  It has been, for forty years,

         6       founded with people in the Capital Region, all

         7       over the state, I believe under the leadership

         8       of then-Governor Rockefeller, and it has

         9       brought culture, the arts, economic impact,

        10       people literally from all over the world.

        11       Celebrities go there, perform there.  It

        12       really is one of the largest and biggest, best

        13       assets that we have in the Capital Region.

        14                  There probably isn't anyone here

        15       that hasn't been there, your families that

        16       haven't been there, your neighbors, your

        17       constituents.  It is just tremendous to have.

        18                  My colleague Senator Balboni, who

        19       joins Senator Fuschillo, was observing that he

        20       believes that Picasso said something like:

        21       The arts help you brush off the dust of the

        22       day.  How profound is that?  I think Senator

        23       Balboni actually made that up.

        24                  (Laughter.)

        25                  SENATOR BRUNO:    But how



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         1       appropriate -- you think about it -- after a

         2       day to go and just enjoy the music, whatever

         3       presentation is taking place, and the

         4       acoustical soundness of that amphitheater.

         5                  We're very, very fortunate Marcia

         6       White is here, with many of the board members

         7       from SPAC, who are extremely busy but are

         8       providing their time, their energy, their

         9       enlightenment to support Marcia White as the

        10       president and to support the good works of the

        11       Performing Arts Center in the Capital Region

        12       and this state.

        13                  So we are indebted to you for your

        14       personal commitment.  And Marcia White, having

        15       spent the previous twenty years in the Senate,

        16       knows how to manage, she knows how to lead,

        17       she knows how to get things done.  And since

        18       she's been there, everything has turned around

        19       and is headed in a bigger, better, greater,

        20       wider horizon.

        21                  And, Marcia, congratulations to

        22       you.  Congratulations to the board.  And we

        23       look forward, truly, with your leadership,

        24       with the support that you have, support of the

        25       colleagues here and so many other people that



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         1       would like to be here, we look forward to one

         2       of the most successful seasons that you've

         3       ever had in the last 40 years, and for at

         4       least 40 more years.

         5                  And Marcia and the board have

         6       committed their service for the next 40 years.

         7       And who knows, we might be back here, Marcia,

         8       40 years from now, and I may have another

         9       resolution up.

        10                  So congratulations and thank you

        11       for your good work and for all of the support

        12       that you give people in the Capital Region and

        13       this state.  You are a tremendous asset.

        14       We're honored to be honoring and recognizing

        15       you here on the floor of the Senate.

        16                  Thank you, Madam President.

        17                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Farley.

        18                  SENATOR FARLEY:    Thank you, Madam

        19       President.

        20                  I think that you know, as a person

        21       that comes from the Capital District, that the

        22       Saratoga Performing Arts is a state treasure,

        23       it truly is.  And the remarkable turnaround

        24       that has happened as a result of Marcia White

        25       and that new board is truly remarkable.



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         1                  And the support that our Majority

         2       Leader has given the Saratoga Performing Arts

         3       is really outstanding.  And I know that, as

         4       somebody that shares Saratoga with Senator

         5       Bruno, how proud we are of what has happened

         6       up there.

         7                  And this is -- as I said, this is

         8       truly a turnaround.  And the way that the

         9       community and the entire Capital District have

        10       stepped up to save SPAC, it's truly an

        11       anniversary that needs to be recognized.

        12                  And I rise in support of this

        13       resolution and congratulate Marcia White and

        14       her board on the tremendous turnaround that

        15       has happened up there.

        16                  Thank you, Madam President.

        17                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Breslin.

        18                  SENATOR BRESLIN:    Thank you,

        19       Madam President.

        20                  I too join with Senator Farley and

        21       Senator Bruno in commending the new board, but

        22       most especially its new president, who I think

        23       has generated a renewed excitement in the

        24       Capital District.  I think you can actually

        25       call it a renaissance.  People are now talking



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         1       about the ballet like they haven't in the past

         2       twenty years.  They're talking about the

         3       orchestra, they're talking about the events

         4       that are taking place this summer.

         5                  And as I look up and see friends of

         6       mine who are on the board, who were each and

         7       every one of them selected for particular

         8       values and skills that they bring, and I

         9       commend each and every one of you for offering

        10       your time and you, Marcia, for undertaking a

        11       greatly of responsibility, but a

        12       responsibility that you can handle

        13       effortlessly.

        14                  And I look forward to being at the

        15       Spa so many times this summer.  And again, a

        16       wonderful resolution.

        17                  Thank you, Madam President.

        18                  THE PRESIDENT:    The question,

        19       then, is on the resolution.  All in favor

        20       please signify by saying aye.

        21                  (Response of "Aye.")

        22                  THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

        23                  (No response.)

        24                  THE PRESIDENT:    The resolution is

        25       adopted.



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         1                  And congratulations and best wishes

         2       for many, many more years of similar success.

         3                  (Extended applause.)

         4                  SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

         5       can we open this resolution up to anyone that

         6       is here on the floor.

         7                  THE PRESIDENT:    Yes.

         8                  SENATOR BRUNO:    And if you'd

         9       rather not be on the resolution, would you

        10       privately address the desk.

        11                  Thank you, Madam President.

        12                  THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

        13       Senator Bruno.

        14                  Any member who does not wish to

        15       cosponsor the last resolution, please notify

        16       the desk.

        17                  Senator Bruno.

        18                  SENATOR BRUNO:    Madam President,

        19       can we at this time go to the controversial

        20       reading of the calendar.

        21                  THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

        22       will ring the bell, and the members should

        23       return to their seats so we can commence with

        24       the controversial calendar.

        25                  Senator Breslin.



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         1                  SENATOR BRESLIN:    Thank you,

         2       Madam President.

         3                  On Resolution 2532, which is

         4       commending POW Jessica Lynch, who will appear

         5       at the Teresian House, I would like to open it

         6       up for all members of the Senate.  And if

         7       anyone wishes not to be on it, to notify the

         8       desk.

         9                  And I also applaud and commend

        10       Senator Larkin for bringing this to my

        11       attention.

        12                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

        13       Fuschillo, at the request of Senator Breslin,

        14       are you in agreement with opening up Senate

        15       Resolution 2532 for sponsorship?

        16                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Yes, Madam

        17       President.

        18                  THE PRESIDENT:    Then any member

        19       who does not want to cosponsor the proposed

        20       resolution, please notify the desk.  Thank

        21       you.

        22                  The Secretary will read.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        24       713, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1003, an

        25       act to amend the Penal Law.



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         1                  SENATOR SABINI:    Explanation.

         2                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator LaValle,

         3       an explanation has been requested.

         4                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Thank you,

         5       Madam President.

         6                  During the last couple of weeks, we

         7       have passed a plethora of bills, I don't know

         8       how many, dealing with sexual predators,

         9       sexual assault.  And we have talked about

        10       various approaches on how to deal with the

        11       problem that is very, very vexing in our

        12       society today.

        13                  I think many people would not have

        14       believed that we as a legislature, in trying

        15       to deal with the protection of our --

        16       particularly of our young people, would be

        17       using a GPS system to be able to track and

        18       keep surveillance on people who have a

        19       problem.

        20                  Today we are discussing a bill --

        21       and I must say, years ago when I had filed

        22       this bill -- it goes back maybe six, seven,

        23       eight years ago -- a lot of people snickered.

        24       A lot of people said this bill really goes too

        25       far.  But when we look at the context of the



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         1       year 2005 and all the different kinds of

         2       measures that we are considering, this

         3       legislation is really not out of the

         4       mainstream.

         5                  There are 11 states that will have

         6       enacted legislation allowing for chemical

         7       castration, those states being California,

         8       Texas, Georgia, Tennessee, Michigan, Florida,

         9       Iowa, Louisiana, Oregon, Wisconsin, Montana.

        10       And in the state of Minnesota, legislation is

        11       pending.

        12                  As we talk about this legislation,

        13       it is -- and my staff has done an enormous

        14       amount of research, calling various states to

        15       ask them about issues of recidivism, asking

        16       them how the system works, trying to get

        17       statistics and so forth for the debate today.

        18       We find that -- and I just want to say,

        19       because it is shown in the kinds of

        20       legislation that we have passed in this house,

        21       that there's no perfect cure, and that

        22       individuals who have a psychological and to

        23       some degree a physical problem really cannot

        24       help themselves.  And so we're reaching out

        25       and trying to find a solution.



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         1                  We contacted the states of

         2       California, Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Louisiana,

         3       Michigan, Montana, Oregon, Texas and

         4       Wisconsin, and every one of those states, with

         5       the exception of Michigan, have a civil

         6       commitment law.  In the discussion that we've

         7       had with other states, they've talked about

         8       civil commitment and other measures being part

         9       of a large program in trying to deal with the

        10       problem.

        11                  We looked at the recidivism,

        12       because that's the most often asked question,

        13       and we found that different states count

        14       things differently.  And so it's very, very

        15       hard to get a handle on it.  But just to --

        16       one thing that we do know is that in looking

        17       at three-year rates for sex offenders, we

        18       found that the percent returning to prison

        19       within three years of release, by offense

        20       type, for all sex offenders, 45 percent;

        21       sexual assault, 53 percent; sexual assault of

        22       a child, 41 percent; and indecency,

        23       35 percent.

        24                  The legislation that -- and by the

        25       way, before we get into the specifics of the



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         1       legislation, there are numerous safeguards,

         2       not only in this legislation but in the

         3       legislation passed throughout the country.

         4       The State of Wisconsin has the most evidence

         5       of the number of individuals that have been

         6       chemically castrated, and the number is 29.

         7       And the question that we asked is, of the 29

         8       people, have there been any that have been

         9       back for a sexual crime.  And the answer was

        10       no.  Although some were returned for --

        11       whether it was burglary or some other crime.

        12       But not for a sex crime.

        13                  I would say, and say it right out,

        14       that castration is not a hundred percent cure.

        15       There is, from what we have, there's about a

        16       5 percent -- a repeat offense rate of about

        17       5 percent for sex criminals that have had

        18       chemical castration.

        19                  Chemical castration -- this might

        20       come up as a question -- is completely

        21       reversible.  It is a treatment that has to be

        22       linked with other kinds of things, and we'll

        23       get into that, in terms of psychological

        24       treatment.  And we find that a well-regulated

        25       system of drug treatment for sex offenders



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         1       really might offer the most promising

         2       possibility to achieve rehabilitation and safe

         3       integration of offenders into society.

         4                  In discussing this with my staff,

         5       we felt the approach that we were really

         6       taking here is to offer individuals who just

         7       cannot help themselves an opportunity to

         8       assimilate into society.  Under this bill, if

         9       it were to become law, or in the other states,

        10       there are so many safeguards that either the

        11       judge or the physician would not go ahead and

        12       approve of this methodology.

        13                  So in just going through the bill,

        14       the bill has first violent felony sex

        15       offense -- and by the way, medroxyprogesterone

        16       acetate, MPA, is the chemical that we're

        17       talking about.  For first violent felony

        18       offenders, MPA is an option.  If there has

        19       been, under 1(B) of the legislation, if a

        20       defendant has a prior conviction, then the

        21       court shall, shall sentence an individual to

        22       undergo MPA.

        23                  Now, in the sentencing, a

        24       candidate, and the legislation talks about

        25       under this subdivision, shall be contingent



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         1       upon determination by a court-appointed

         2       medical expert.  And to provide that a

         3       defendant sentenced to probation who is not

         4       custody shall be returned to custody for such

         5       treatment.  And no such treatment shall be

         6       administered until the individual is informed

         7       of the side effects and has consented in

         8       writing.

         9                  Now, there are certain side

        10       effects.  Individuals who have hypertension,

        11       coronary problems, a physician would have to

        12       make a determination whether that would

        13       interfere with the individual's good health.

        14                  I would also say to you in the

        15       legislation that for a first violent felony

        16       offender, they can voluntarily undergo

        17       treatment.  And they must give their written

        18       consent to the court.  And by the way, this

        19       legislation also voluntarily would allow an

        20       individual to undergo physical castration,

        21       once again upon a written motion by the

        22       defendant.

        23                  We have found that physicians, for

        24       whatever reason, have been very prudent and in

        25       some cases reluctant to use MPA.  And



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         1       Wisconsin has the highest number of cases, as

         2       I have indicated, 29.

         3                  The last part of the bill indicates

         4       that the defendant shall be guilty of a Class

         5       A misdemeanor if they do not appear as

         6       required by the Department of Corrections or

         7       they do not allow administration of MPA.  And

         8       before an individual is released, there's a

         9       time period in which the process would begin.

        10       But as I have indicated before, this in and of

        11       itself has to be coupled with counseling and

        12       so forth.

        13                  And lastly, probably one of the

        14       most important bills that we passed is Senator

        15       Volker's civil confinement legislation.

        16       Because all of the states that I have

        17       indicated have passed very comprehensive laws

        18       using both civil confinement and MPA as part

        19       of their total program.

        20                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Krueger.

        21                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        22       Madam President.  Will the sponsor please

        23       yield?

        24                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator LaValle,

        25       will you yield for a question?



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         1                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Yes.

         2                  THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

         3       Senator.

         4                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         5                  Are there any other laws in

         6       New York State where we mandate people to take

         7       drugs against their will?

         8                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    I don't know.

         9                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Madam

        10       President, if the sponsor will continue to

        11       yield.

        12                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator LaValle,

        13       do you yield?

        14                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Yes, I do.

        15                  THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed,

        16       Senator.

        17                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Are there

        18       any studies that have been done on the

        19       long-term health risks of this drug or its

        20       relationship to other illnesses or drug

        21       therapies?

        22                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    My staff, as I

        23       have indicated, have had discussions with

        24       individuals from the states of California

        25       Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Louisiana, Michigan,



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         1       Montana, Oregon, Texas, and Wisconsin.  And as

         2       I've indicated, Wisconsin has been the most

         3       aggressive.  The first laws were passed in

         4       California -- the first law was passed in

         5       California in 1996.  There were several that

         6       were passed in 1997, Iowa in '98, Oregon in

         7       '99, and Wisconsin more recently.

         8                  As I have indicated, the -- there

         9       are some studies that talk about some health

        10       problems that you have to be a little

        11       cautious -- I talked about hypertension, heart

        12       problems.  There is also a weight gain that

        13       takes place.  So we do know that there are

        14       some, some health problems.  But in those

        15       cases, and I've said this repeatedly, the

        16       physicians have been very, very cautious, very

        17       measured in using MPA.  Even though it is

        18       shown as being successful, as I've quoted, in

        19       Wisconsin in the recidivism rate for sex

        20       crimes.  We know of none.

        21                  Now, I'm very cautious in that,

        22       Senator, because -- and we've had dialogue

        23       with the states.  We know that some of those

        24       people have literally left the state, so

        25       tracking them becomes difficult.



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         1                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Right.

         2       Thank you.

         3                  Madam President, on the bill.

         4                  THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed

         5       on the bill.

         6                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         7                  I appreciate the Senator's detailed

         8       explanation of his bill.

         9                  I would argue that this is not a

        10       bill we should pass in New York State, despite

        11       other states claiming that they've had success

        12       with it.  I'm concerned on a number of levels.

        13       One, it's the -- if it -- for voluntary

        14       purposes, I would not object.  And certainly

        15       the argument that anything we can do to

        16       prevent repeat offenders from continuing to

        17       put any of our constituents at risk is

        18       obviously a very high standard for all of us,

        19       and one that we hope to meet.

        20                  But in this bill, it's a fairly

        21       drastic measure to mandate this even for

        22       people who are not repeat molesters.  And that

        23       while some experts argue that this drug is

        24       effective, others argue that in fact it is not

        25       and does not statistically decrease repeat



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         1       offenders because in fact the underlying

         2       violent tendencies of people who are sexual

         3       abusers and predators is not necessarily

         4       related to a chemical response in their body

         5       as much as psychological problems that they

         6       suffer.

         7                  I'm also very, very concerned about

         8       a mandate by state government that we actually

         9       require people to take drug therapies that may

        10       not, in the long term, prove to be effective

        11       but may, in fact in the long term prove to

        12       cause other illnesses or complicate other

        13       illnesses.  I think it's a very risky road on

        14       constitutional protections and on healthcare

        15       standards of not mandating people follow

        16       therapies that they choose not to, to open

        17       this door.

        18                  I would argue, though, that in fact

        19       I do support a bill that we passed here the

        20       other day, and I think there may be some

        21       amendment of it even today on the floor,

        22       involving GPS bracelets for Level 3 offenders.

        23       And I think that many of the concerns that I

        24       know Senator LaValle has and that motivate his

        25       decision to move forward with this bill are in



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         1       fact the same concerns we all do have and hope

         2       to address, which is ensuring that people who

         3       are potentially still putting at risk our

         4       constituents, based on their historical

         5       patterns of sexual offense, ensuring that even

         6       when they are released back into communities

         7       that there are ways to ensure that they never

         8       repeat their violent attacking offenses and

         9       that we can monitor and evaluate and ensure

        10       that they should retain the right to be in the

        11       community without putting anyone at risk.

        12                  I think that the approach that we

        13       have made in laws that -- bills, excuse me,

        14       that we have passed and perhaps are amending

        15       and negotiating with the Assembly even today

        16       on GPS monitoring is a better way for us to go

        17       and probably a more successful model to

        18       address the concerns of Senator LaValle.

        19                  And so I will be voting no.  And I

        20       hope my colleagues will also think about what

        21       are the best ways and the not-best ways to

        22       address this problem.

        23                  Thank you, Madam President.

        24                  THE PRESIDENT:    Does any other

        25       member wish to be heard?



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         1                  Senator Stavisky.

         2                  SENATOR STAVISKY:    Madam

         3       President, if the sponsor would yield to one

         4       question.

         5                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator LaValle,

         6       will you yield for a question?

         7                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Yes.

         8                  THE PRESIDENT:    You may proceed.

         9                  SENATOR STAVISKY:    I had a Level

        10       3 offender living in my district.  And I tried

        11       to determine what the recidivism rate was for

        12       Level 3 offenders.  And the statistics that

        13       the Division of Parole gave me I think were

        14       artificially low.

        15                  Can you tell us what the recidivism

        16       rate is in New York State for Level 3

        17       offenders?

        18                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    I don't have

        19       that.

        20                  There are a number of studies that

        21       have been done; I read some of the rates per

        22       crime.  But the problem that we found, in

        23       talking to people, is that -- and my staff

        24       said to be very, very cautious in using

        25       numbers, because people count things in



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         1       different ways.

         2                  Now, I mean, I don't know, if you

         3       commit a crime, a sex crime, you go out, you

         4       come back, that sounds like you failed.  But I

         5       do not have our numbers specifically.

         6                  I do have -- as I recall, the

         7       number for violent and nonviolent sex crimes

         8       was 13, 14 percent and recidivism for

         9       individuals at large was 36 percent.

        10                  Now, when I looked at those

        11       numbers, I too thought they were very, very

        12       low.  So I think when you do the research that

        13       my staff has done on this -- and they were

        14       having trouble.  They did this all by hand,

        15       state by state.  And New York, they were very

        16       perplexed, because we're using different kinds

        17       of systems to put statistics together.

        18                  SENATOR STAVISKY:    Thank you.

        19                  I've found the same problem.  And

        20       the numbers that I had were very -- were in

        21       the 30 percent range, and I think that number

        22       is low.

        23                  THE PRESIDENT:    No other member

        24       wishes to be heard?

        25                  The debate is closed.



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         1                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

         2                  Read the last section.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

         4       act shall take effect on the first of

         5       November.

         6                  THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

         7                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                  Senator Montgomery, to explain your

         9       vote.

        10                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, Madam

        11       President, to briefly explain my vote.

        12                  I'm going to be supporting this

        13       legislation.  I understand that there are many

        14       questions and issues that we don't still have

        15       answers for.  I would hope that we could have

        16       an opportunity to have a broad discussion and

        17       some hearings and that this would go through

        18       that process.

        19                  THE PRESIDENT:    Could I ask the

        20       members to refrain from conversing.

        21                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    However, I

        22       applaud Senator LaValle's attempt to come up

        23       with a method of dealing with people who are

        24       in a category of inability to control

        25       themselves in this way.  And it seems to be --



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         1                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

         2       Montgomery, may I ask you to wait until we

         3       have order here, so that you can be heard.

         4                  All right, please proceed.

         5                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Madam

         6       President, this bill aims to help those sex

         7       offenders who are unable to control their

         8       sexual proclivities to be able to use

         9       medication to help them.  And that they would

        10       also be able to function in society once again

        11       without having the public be terrified of what

        12       they might do at any moment.

        13                  So I am going to support this and

        14       hope that we can have much more dialogue on

        15       this issue.  But I vote yes.

        16                  THE PRESIDENT:    You will be so

        17       recorded as voting in the affirmative.

        18                  Senator LaValle, to explain your

        19       vote.

        20                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Thank you,

        21       Madam President.

        22                  In casting my yes vote on this

        23       legislation, I very briefly just want to

        24       indicate that the U.S. Supreme Court, in

        25       Kansas v. Hendricks, 1997, gave us the legal



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         1       underpinnings for not only Senator Volker's

         2       civil confinement legislation but the laws

         3       throughout the country on chemical castration.

         4                  And so -- we have an epidemic here,

         5       and so we're trying to put as many arrows in

         6       the quiver to fight what is going on in our

         7       society.  I believe this legislation will

         8       allow for individuals proper, as Senator

         9       Montgomery indicated, assimilation into our

        10       society so that they don't -- will not

        11       terrorize individuals and can be a productive

        12       member of our society.

        13                  Once again, I vote aye.

        14                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

        15       DeFrancisco.

        16                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes, I vote

        17       aye as well.

        18                  But there's one segment of the bill

        19       that seems to be a more recurring theme in

        20       many, many bills that we see, and that is

        21       immunizing various people from liability.  In

        22       this case that clause finds itself here as

        23       well, that if a healthcare provider is

        24       negligent in prescribing this type of

        25       treatment or administering the treatment,



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         1       it's -- the only liability would be if the

         2       person has not acted in good faith.

         3                  I'm not quite sure how a

         4       medical-care provider could be found ever to

         5       be found not operating in good faith.  That's

         6       no standard at all.  So it's truly total

         7       immunity.

         8                  The point I'm trying to raise, not

         9       only for this bill but many, many others that

        10       we've seen already, is that if someone's

        11       negligent, who's going to pay, then?  The

        12       whole point of our tort system is to

        13       compensate individuals, no matter who they

        14       are, for negligence and let the party

        15       responsible pay.

        16                  And if we keep immunizing the

        17       entire human race, then that means

        18       government's got to step in, and it's going to

        19       be another cost of government.  Plus there's

        20       no incentive for anyone to avoid negligence.

        21                  So I'm going to vote yes on the

        22       merits of the bill.  But once again, I just

        23       want to state my concern over this troubling

        24       trend that seems to be expanding over the last

        25       few months.



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         1                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

         2       DeFrancisco and Senator LaValle, you will both

         3       be recorded as voting in the affirmative on

         4       this bill.

         5                  The Secretary will announce the

         6       results.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

         8       the negative on Calendar Number 713 are

         9       Senators Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger and

        10       Parker.

        11                  Absent from voting:  Connor,

        12       Gonzalez, and Sampson.

        13                  Ayes, 54.  Nays, 3.

        14                  THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

        15       passed.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        17       875, by Member of the Assembly Tonko, Assembly

        18       Print Number 8176, an act to amend the

        19       Long-Term Care Integration and Finance Act of

        20       1997.

        21                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:

        22       Explanation.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    An

        24       explanation has been requested, Senator

        25       Hannon.



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         1                  SENATOR HANNON:    Yes.  This

         2       legislation would extend the Long-Term Care

         3       Integration and Finance Act of 1997 for an

         4       additional two years.

         5                  This legislation covers the

         6       programs known as the PACE programs, which are

         7       basically a capitated experimental program to

         8       deal with the elderly, the frail elderly,

         9       sometimes referred to as the chronic care

        10       management demonstration programs.

        11                  There are five programs in

        12       existence in this state:  The Eddy, Loretto,

        13       Rochester Healthcare, Beth Abraham, ElderCare.

        14       Each of them have requested an extension.

        15                  Thank you.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        17       you, Senator Hannon.

        18                  Senator Krueger.

        19                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        20       Madam President.  If the sponsor would please

        21       yield.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        23       you.

        24                  Senator Hannon, do you yield?

        25                  SENATOR HANNON:    Yes.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Yes,

         2       the Senator yields.

         3                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         4                  Senator, we extended this for two

         5       years two years ago.  And now we're being

         6       asked to extend it again.  It's a

         7       demonstration project or, as you explained, a

         8       series of them.  What have they demonstrated

         9       so far?  Why are we either continuing them

        10       another two years or not just establishing

        11       that they've succeeded and allowing this

        12       legislation to move forward on a permanent

        13       basis?

        14                  SENATOR HANNON:    This

        15       legislation, which has been adopted by the

        16       national health policymakers, is something

        17       that many people feel will be the coming

        18       model.  In order to make this the coming

        19       model, certain issues need to be finalized.

        20       And there is a policy tension between those of

        21       us in the legislature and the healthcare

        22       community and the regulators.

        23                  I would say they would cover

        24       questions in regard to rate-setting, questions

        25       in regard to interaction between the PACE



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         1       program and assisted living, questions about

         2       which regulations should and can apply,

         3       questions about documentation, as well as

         4       questions about assessment tools.  Assessment

         5       tool being a term, a concept in the field of

         6       long-term care by which the provider takes a

         7       look at the patient, the prospective patient,

         8       and tries to evaluate the needs of that

         9       patient and the type of care that the patient

        10       will require.

        11                  Since we have last extended this,

        12       this Legislature has done two things.  The

        13       Health Committee, in conjunction with the

        14       Social Services Committee, held some

        15       roundtables in regard to what are the most

        16       appropriate assessment tools that are

        17       available, what's happening in the state to

        18       upgrade the assessment tools, and when those

        19       might come about.

        20                  Second, as a line of inquiry, we

        21       actually adopted legislation that called for

        22       risk-adjusted rate setting by the Health

        23       Department to go to these programs.  That

        24       legislation passed both houses but was vetoed

        25       by the Governor.



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         1                  Therefore, what continues to exist

         2       is the final shape and form of these

         3       demonstration programs if we're to move them

         4       to permanent status.

         5                  Behind these demonstration

         6       programs, which are more fully developed than

         7       others, behind them is the less-developed

         8       programs, which can be called the

         9       long-term-care demonstration projects.  They

        10       are still working in regard to the

        11       methodology, et cetera.

        12                  What we're trying to do is the most

        13       appropriate care at affordable prices for this

        14       government and society, the most appropriate

        15       care for the elderly, especially the frail

        16       elderly.  As we are facing a population that

        17       will, by the year 2030, double the number of

        18       people over 65 and probably a little bit more

        19       than that increase the number of over 80, we

        20       have a continuing mission to determine what's

        21       the best way to take care of, in an

        22       institutional fashion, our elderly.

        23                  And the PACE program has done this

        24       by giving flexibility to the caregivers, by

        25       capitating the rate by having special



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         1       oversight so that we make sure the best care

         2       possible is being given.  This is an ongoing

         3       discussion.  It's one I wish were finalized.

         4       But in the meantime, these five programs need

         5       to have their life extended so the care they

         6       are giving ought to be continued.

         7                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         8                  Madam President, if the sponsor

         9       would please continue to yield.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        11       you.

        12                  Senator Hannon, do you continue to

        13       yield?

        14                  SENATOR HANNON:    Yes.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        16       Senator yields.

        17                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        18                  I appreciate the very detailed

        19       explanation.  And I share your concern that

        20       these are critical programs.  And you are

        21       absolutely right that as we age as a society,

        22       New York State is falling behind what we ought

        23       to be doing to address the problems of

        24       long-term care.

        25                  And I'm very pleased to hear that



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         1       there were roundtables.  I am, of course,

         2       disappointed that the Governor vetoed the bill

         3       you referenced.

         4                  In this original legislation it

         5       called for an interim report to be received by

         6       the Legislature in 2003 and a final report by

         7       mid-2006.  Have we received any reports from

         8       these demonstration projects, as required by

         9       the '97 law?

        10                  SENATOR HANNON:    I don't know if

        11       we have any paper.  I do know that there has

        12       been a fairly intensive, extensive ongoing

        13       communication with both -- with each of the

        14       five plans, as well as with the Department of

        15       Health and the Department of Budget.  This has

        16       come up with fairly tough scrutiny during the

        17       budget process.

        18                  And I'm pretty aware of what's

        19       happening and have been and will be available

        20       to discuss any concerns you might have, not

        21       necessarily on the floor of this chamber.

        22                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        23       Madam President.  Very briefly on the bill.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        25       you.



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         1                  Senator Krueger, on the bill.

         2                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         3                  I appreciate Senator Hannon's

         4       detailed explanations.  I think that we agree

         5       we need to do far more on long-term care

         6       planning for the State of New York.  I think

         7       this Legislature should have more dialogue on

         8       these questions and these issues, whether it's

         9       on the floor of the chamber or in public

        10       hearings or by reviewing reports that I hope

        11       the Department of Health and other experts

        12       will provide us.

        13                  Perhaps one of the reasons that

        14       between 1997 and 2005 we haven't moved forward

        15       enough is because we're not spending enough

        16       time looking at these issues.  We have our

        17       demonstrations, we are told they are doing

        18       well, but we are not moving forward to expand

        19       these very important programs, again, for a

        20       growing population of seniors in the state of

        21       New York.

        22                  So I hope that reports will be

        23       forthcoming.  And I hope that before the next

        24       time we're asked to extend this, in 2007, we

        25       will have demonstrated enough to move forward



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         1       for the people of New York.  I will be

         2       supporting the bill.

         3                  Thank you, Madam President.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         5       you, Senator.

         6                  Senator Hannon.

         7                  SENATOR HANNON:    Yes, Madam

         8       President, on the bill.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    On the

        10       bill.

        11                  SENATOR HANNON:    Notwithstanding

        12       the comments about public hearings and

        13       oversight and all that -- a continuing theme

        14       that I think is totally spurious and foreign

        15       to this whole discussion -- we have in this

        16       Senate, at least in the Majority, paid careful

        17       attention to the long-term care needs of our

        18       population.  We've had roundtables throughout

        19       the state.  We've had discussions, we've had

        20       ongoing hearings, we've had public budget

        21       discussions.  There has been a very intensive

        22       effort.

        23                  To the extent the very esteemed

        24       Senator from Manhattan would like information

        25       about that, dare ask, this being the first



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         1       time I've ever heard of any inquiry, I will

         2       simply state I am perfectly willing to share

         3       any information at any time.  But to say or

         4       imply or to simply state that we have not been

         5       doing this in public is erroneous and I think

         6       ought to be withdrawn.

         7                  Thank you.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         9       you, Senator.

        10                  Is there any other Senator wishing

        11       to be heard on the bill?

        12                  The debate is closed.

        13                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

        14                  Read the last section.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        18       the roll.

        19                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

        21                  Those Senators absent from voting

        22       on Calendar Number 875:  Senators Connor,

        23       Gonzalez and Sampson.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        25       bill is passed.



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         1                  Senator Larkin.

         2                  SENATOR LARKIN:    Thank you, Madam

         3       President.

         4                  There are three resolutions on our

         5       calendar today that I'd like to open up.

         6       Number 2586 talks about our Americans that

         7       were taken out of the Philippines and went

         8       into Manchuria, the 50th anniversary.

         9                  The recent death of an individual

        10       in my district who went back to Iraq, Corporal

        11       Joe Tremblay, 2649.

        12                  And another one that should be

        13       important to every one of us is 2688, which

        14       encourages our Congressional delegation to

        15       ensure the proper healthcare for members of

        16       our National Guard.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Senator

        18       Fuschillo, may we open those three

        19       resolutions?

        20                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Just follow

        21       the normal procedures of the house and open

        22       them up to the house.  If anybody wishes not

        23       to go on them, please notify the desk.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Any

        25       Senator not wishing to be on Resolutions 2586,



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         1       2649, or 2688, please notify us at the desk.

         2                  Senator Hassell-Thompson.

         3                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

         4       you, Madam President.

         5                  I too have a resolution that I

         6       would like to open up for everyone to

         7       participate in.

         8                  This resolution calls for Obesity

         9       Awareness Month.  And because of the numbers

        10       of cases that we are beginning to see of

        11       cancer, diabetes, and heart condition that are

        12       closely associated with obesity, we are trying

        13       to bring public attention.

        14                  When we talk about the costs of

        15       medical care, if we begin to look at our

        16       eating habits and our behaviors, we will be

        17       able to reduce significantly the cost of care

        18       just by observing diet.

        19                  So therefore, Madam President, I

        20       appreciate the opportunity to open up this

        21       resolution to the entire body and hope that

        22       not only will my colleagues sign on to this,

        23       but also will raise their consciousness about

        24       the way we eat when we go into the Senate

        25       lounge.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         2       you.  Senator Hassell-Thompson, can you give

         3       me the number of that resolution?

         4                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Madam

         5       President.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Senator

         7       Fuschillo.

         8                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    No objection.

         9       Same normal procedures.

        10                  Can we proceed with the reading of

        11       the controversial calendar, please.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        13       you.

        14                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    It's

        15       Resolution Number 2652, Madam President.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        17       you.

        18                  Any Senator not wishing to be on

        19       Resolution 2652 please notify the desk.

        20                  The Secretary will read.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        22       1146, by Member of the Assembly Stringer,

        23       Assembly Print Number 1377C, an act to amend

        24       the Insurance Law.

        25                  SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,



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         1       please.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    An

         3       explanation has been requested, Senator

         4       Balboni.

         5                  SENATOR BALBONI:    Yes, thank you,

         6       Madam President.

         7                  This bill attempts to close one of

         8       those insidious loopholes that arises in the

         9       context of orders of protection.  Anyone who

        10       has studied the law of the order of protection

        11       realizes that it is the attempt by the

        12       judiciary and by this legislature to try to

        13       prevent a violent act from happening.  But

        14       unfortunately, as this bill addresses, we have

        15       systems in place which completely obfuscate

        16       the intention of that law.

        17                  The situation that this bill seeks

        18       to address is one where there is a

        19       policyholder for a contract for health

        20       insurance who has an order of protection

        21       against him or her and the order of protection

        22       is to protect the victim of domestic violence,

        23       who is the beneficiary of that policy.

        24                  Now, why does that matter?  Because

        25       as a policyholder, under current law, I have



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         1       the right to receive information as to how the

         2       policy is being used, including the address of

         3       the individual who I have an order of

         4       protection against me for.

         5                  This bill, which has been

         6       negotiated now for two years and will become

         7       law should this house see fit to pass it, will

         8       now prohibit an insurance company from

         9       providing information as to the known

        10       whereabouts of a victim who has an order of

        11       protection for his or her protection to be

        12       disclosed to the policyholder.

        13                  The process works that the order of

        14       protection must be delivered to the offices of

        15       the insurance company, and then they are

        16       responsible for prohibiting the release of

        17       this information.

        18                  Thank you, Madam President.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        20       you, Senator Balboni.

        21                  Senator Duane.

        22                  SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you, Madam

        23       President.

        24                  With the exception of the word

        25       "obfuscate," the explanation is satisfactory.



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         1                  (Laughter.)

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         3       you, Senator.

         4                  Is there any other Senator wishing

         5       to be heard?

         6                  The debate is closed.

         7                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

         8                  Read the last section.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

        10       act shall take effect on the 120th day.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        12       the roll.

        13                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.

        15                  Those Senators absent from voting

        16       on Calendar Number 1146:  Senators Connor,

        17       Gonzalez and Sampson.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        19       bill is passed.

        20                  The Secretary will read.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        22       1263, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3541, an

        23       act to amend the Social Services Law.

        24                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:

        25       Explanation.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    There

         2       is a local fiscal impact note at the desk.

         3                  Senator Rath, an explanation has

         4       been requested.

         5                  SENATOR RATH:    Madam President

         6       and my colleagues, this bill is a bill that is

         7       an implementation of a measure that we passed

         8       just three or four votes shy of unanimously

         9       two years ago, when an omnibus Medicaid bill

        10       was passed as a result of the hearings that

        11       Senator Hannon referred to a few minutes ago.

        12                  One of the prime messages from the

        13       people all across New York State as we went

        14       out on a task force -- a bipartisan task

        15       force, by the way, that was --

        16                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I can't

        17       hear.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        19       speaker cannot be heard.  Can we keep the

        20       conversation out of the chamber.

        21                  SENATOR RATH:    It's the first

        22       time in my life someone said they couldn't

        23       hear me.  I usually have a very -- my children

        24       always thought they could hear me too much,

        25       probably.  But okay, I'll try.  Is this



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         1       better?

         2                  As a result of the bipartisan

         3       hearings that were across the state two years

         4       ago, the task force report resulted in a piece

         5       of legislation, omnibus piece of legislation,

         6       Medicaid reform legislation.

         7                  One of the chief concerns we heard

         8       all across the state of course was long-term

         9       care, as you just heard so much from Senator

        10       Hannon about the PACE demonstration programs

        11       that are going along and showing some good

        12       results.  Because we know most of the costs of

        13       long-term care -- most of the costs of

        14       Medicaid are tied up in the long-term-care

        15       system.

        16                  But a very large portion of the

        17       cost is caught up in a circumstance that we're

        18       trying to start to right, to turn right.

        19       Assemblyman Schimminger and I share this bill.

        20       He introduced it in the Assembly.  And the

        21       bill is in some parts technical and in other

        22       parts looking to expand managed care.

        23                  We know that managed care is

        24       effective, we know that it does work.  We

        25       heard from county after county across the



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         1       state.  And all of you know yesterday we

         2       passed a bill about Erie County.  It was a

         3       problem.  Erie County has had a problem, as

         4       many have, with their Medicaid costs.  I could

         5       recite to you number after number after number

         6       about counties across the state that will tell

         7       you either all or close to all of their

         8       property tax is being used up by Medicaid, one

         9       way or another.  We could debate that, we

        10       could talk about that, but I think it's pretty

        11       generally recognized that spiralling Medicaid

        12       costs are a problem not only in New York State

        13       but in every state in the country.

        14                  Let me just give you a couple of

        15       numbers from Erie County.  Because, as I said,

        16       we have been really close to the problem

        17       because of the circumstance that has been just

        18       so clearly highlighted the last several

        19       months.

        20                  In 2003, the Erie County Department

        21       of Social Services had 131,150 residents

        22       eligible for and using Medicaid, about 80,000

        23       of those enrolled in Medicaid managed-care.

        24       Approximately another 8,000 were in long-term

        25       care, leaving about 44,000 persons in a



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         1       fee-for-service Medicaid program with no known

         2       management of their healthcare.

         3                  This last fee-for-service group,

         4       representing 33 percent of the patients,

         5       expended $512 million per year, or 50 percent

         6       of the total Medicaid spending.  Their average

         7       cost per person per year, $11,669, compared to

         8       $2,889 per year for the Medicaid managed-care

         9       enrollee.

        10                  It's a serious problem when you've

        11       got an almost 10,000 -- well, $9,000

        12       difference between the services that are being

        13       provided for the people who are in managed

        14       care and those people who are in

        15       fee-for-service.

        16                  Erie County then went on to do a

        17       program to check out what they could do with

        18       managed care in terms of an addiction pilot

        19       project.  The net savings over two years for

        20       100 alcohol-addicted individuals, a net

        21       savings of $13,000 per person, both improving

        22       their health and their social well-being.  The

        23       total amount was $1.3 million over two years.

        24                  We know managed care works.  The

        25       program -- the bill in front of you today



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         1       expands the number of people who would be in

         2       managed care across New York State.  But not

         3       just unilaterally making it happen, it adds

         4       the services to the rural communities by

         5       adding rural health networks and to the HIV

         6       communities by saying that the special kinds

         7       of provisions that are necessary for both of

         8       those communities to have quality service,

         9       coordinated service -- and oh, by the way,

        10       hopefully it will be efficient and economic

        11       service.

        12                  But in terms of efficient and

        13       economic, we have to look to our Health

        14       Department in New York State and the federal

        15       government, because none of this is going to

        16       happen without the rate structure being set,

        17       the fees being set, and the waivers coming

        18       from the federal government.

        19                  But I would advance to you, my

        20       colleagues, it's a start.  We have to start

        21       somewhere.  It's a bill in both houses.  I

        22       don't know what the hopes are for this bill in

        23       the Assembly.  I know that I have very high

        24       hopes for this bill here, seeing as we in

        25       essence supported this two years ago almost



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         1       unanimously in the omnibus Medicaid bill that

         2       we passed near the end of session two years

         3       ago.

         4                  So my hope is that your

         5       questions -- well, I can answer your questions

         6       and that you'll see your way clear to support

         7       this beginning effort.

         8                  Thank you, Madam President.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        10       you, Senator Rath.

        11                  Senator Schneiderman.

        12                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

        13       Madam President.  On the bill.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    On the

        15       bill.

        16                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I thank

        17       the sponsor for -- once we quieted things down

        18       here, it was good to be able to hear the

        19       explanation.

        20                  My concern with this legislation,

        21       the concern that has been expressed by a lot

        22       of colleagues as well as advocates, including

        23       the teachers, service providers such as Gay

        24       Men's Health Crisis and Medicaid Matters,

        25       which is a consumer group, is that it is



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         1       clear -- and as the sponsor has articulated, I

         2       think, quite effectively -- that managed care

         3       saves money.

         4                  However, I think it is also clear

         5       that it's at this stage of the evolution of

         6       New York's healthcare system, a decade or so

         7       after we started requiring some recipients of

         8       health services through the Medicaid program

         9       to enroll in managed care, that managed care

        10       also can result in reductions in services.

        11                  What this bill would do is require

        12       some of our most vulnerable, some of our most

        13       vulnerable citizens to enroll into

        14       managed-care programs that history has shown

        15       can create numerous barriers to receiving

        16       vital care.  I would urge that people with

        17       HIV/AIDS are more likely to suffer from

        18       multiple chronic illnesses and more likely to

        19       need access to other types of services that

        20       managed-care programs frequently make it very

        21       difficult for them to receive.

        22                  The New York State Psychological

        23       Association has submitted opposition materials

        24       indicating that mental health professionals

        25       are refusing to participate in managed-care



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         1       programs because the paperwork is simply too

         2       burdensome.

         3                  I understand the desire to cut

         4       costs.  But it is clear that in this case we

         5       are cutting costs by cutting care.  And there

         6       are some of our citizens who should not be

         7       required to enroll in managed care.  I think

         8       that we have to strike a balance between the

         9       fiscal needs, which are very, very real, of

        10       our healthcare system, where the costs are

        11       spiralling out of control, and the need to

        12       actually provide services to people who need

        13       them.

        14                  The fee-for-service Medicaid system

        15       provides access and flexibility for people in

        16       particular circumstances, such as those that

        17       this bill would require to enroll in managed

        18       care.  I think we should stick with this

        19       system.  It's not a perfect solution by any

        20       means.  The sponsor is right, we have to cut

        21       costs.  But we don't have to cut costs by

        22       cutting care for the most vulnerable citizens.

        23                  I would suggest that there are

        24       innovative programs that are being tried in

        25       some other states -- ranging from statewide



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         1       single-payer healthcare programs to other

         2       programs that create insurance pools that make

         3       it possible for people to have more expanded

         4       healthcare while reducing costs -- that we

         5       should be looking at.

         6                  I'm not going to suggest that we

         7       hold hearings on the subject, but some people

         8       think holding hearings is good and that

         9       reaching out to other places is good.  But we

        10       may well have had hearings before that I just

        11       didn't know about because I'm not invited to

        12       those hearings.  But I -- oh, I'm sorry, I

        13       apologize for letting him provoke me.

        14                  I do think that this bill does have

        15       serious problems, but it is a good-faith

        16       effort to solve half of the equation, which is

        17       the cost problem.  We still have to solve the

        18       care problem.  I'm going to vote no, but I do

        19       appreciate that this is a good-faith effort to

        20       deal with a crisis.

        21                  Which I guess at the beginning of

        22       this year, when the Governor announced our

        23       agenda for the year, dealing with the crisis

        24       in Medicaid costs was on the agenda.

        25       Unfortunately, we seem to be closing the



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         1       session without addressing that.  And I hope

         2       that next year we will be able to deal with it

         3       in a more comprehensive manner.

         4                  Thank you, Madam President.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         6       you.

         7                  Senator Hannon.

         8                  SENATOR HANNON:    Let me comment

         9       in regard to some of the points that Senator

        10       Schneiderman made, because I think there's

        11       some misconceptions that he has,

        12       misconceptions that perhaps the general

        13       population has in regard to what we're doing

        14       with managed care versus Medicaid managed

        15       care.

        16                  For instance, he brings forth the

        17       opposition of the psychologists to this

        18       because of the way the psychologists are being

        19       treated by the general health insurance

        20       programs with managed care.  And it is true

        21       that those programs have taken the nonphysical

        22       health specialties, they have subcontracted,

        23       they have people who form special panels,

        24       especially of psychologists or other

        25       counterparts to them, and impose some



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         1       extraordinary paperwork requirements.  That's

         2       a problem that needs to be dealt with.

         3                  However, when we're dealing with

         4       Medicaid managed care, which Senator Rath is

         5       putting forward, we have a number of elements

         6       that I think are different and, because they

         7       are different, are in support of the measure

         8       she proposes.

         9                  The very fact is that Medicaid

        10       managed care has to follow certain quality

        11       standards that the federal government has

        12       established, that it is done as part of a

        13       waiver with the federal government.  The

        14       waiver involves oversight.  And Medicaid

        15       managed care in New York, the consumer health

        16       groups have made sure that that oversight has

        17       been real, has resulted in good quality care

        18       for the individuals covered.

        19                  And lastly, in terms of the

        20       services, I do believe that the providers of

        21       these, the Medicaid managed-care plans in

        22       New York State, have done a pretty good job.

        23       We have not heard from their patients the same

        24       types of complaints that we have heard from

        25       the patients of the other -- the general



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         1       population managed-care plans.

         2                  So I think there is a vast

         3       difference.  And if there's any place we can

         4       talk about managed care, it's under Medicaid,

         5       because it's been done with a fairly rigorous

         6       set of standards.  People get the care they're

         7       entitled to, they're not denied it, and

         8       they're given a regular place to have a

         9       healthcare home.

        10                  Very important, and especially more

        11       important when we're dealing with those people

        12       who might have AIDS or are HIV-positive or

        13       mental illness, where we have not reached that

        14       population, we ought to go to that population.

        15       They will get better care, and I believe as a

        16       result of that better care there might be some

        17       savings to the state.  To my mind, it's not

        18       just the savings that are the motivating

        19       factor, it's the better care.

        20                  So that has been brought out.

        21       There's an extensive discussion going on.  But

        22       I think we have not moved that forward in

        23       recent years, and I commend Senator Rath for

        24       being insistent that this be addressed and be

        25       moved forward.



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         1                  Thank you.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         3       you, Senator Hannon.

         4                  Senator Krueger.

         5                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

         6       Madam President.  On the bill.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    On the

         8       bill.

         9                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        10                  I appreciate the work of Senator

        11       Rath.  And there are parts of this bill that

        12       I'm quite comfortable with.  I think it's

        13       reasonable to ask why there are counties that

        14       have not implemented Medicaid managed care,

        15       and instructing the commissioner to expand

        16       that to counties that don't have the program

        17       are reasonable.  Certainly there are different

        18       issues in rural networks, as you obviously are

        19       far more expert than I.

        20                  But I'd like to speak about the

        21       problem I have the bill and why I can't

        22       support it, and that actually goes, I believe,

        23       to what Senator Hannon just spoke about, the

        24       special-needs populations.

        25                  It's approximately ten years ago, I



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         1       believe now, that New York City started its

         2       mandated Medicaid managed-care model.  I think

         3       we were in the first in the state.  And it was

         4       actually my work then that got me involved

         5       with creating the then Medicaid managed-care

         6       task force to evaluate what was working in and

         7       what wasn't working in New York City.

         8                  And some of the problems that we

         9       found, and the city confirmed and agreed

        10       ultimately with us on, was a simple concept

        11       that I think still is a dilemma in managed

        12       care.  Managed care works best for people who

        13       are not sick.  We all have healthcare needs,

        14       but some of us are sicker than others.  And

        15       since it works on a capitated system where the

        16       provider network gets paid whether or not you

        17       come to them for healthcare, in fact they like

        18       healthy people.  They like women of

        19       childbearing age, they like children, they

        20       like working people, who, by definition, don't

        21       tend to be too sick because they're able to

        22       keep jobs.

        23                  They don't technically like -- and

        24       we've found this now ten years later in

        25       New York City, they don't really like serving,



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         1       as much, sick people, because sick people cost

         2       more in healthcare.  And they get a capitated

         3       fee that doesn't necessarily reflect the

         4       increased costs of serving an ill population

         5       over a relatively healthy actuarial-table-wise

         6       population.

         7                  So the problem I have with your

         8       bill is that it mandates dual-eligible

         9       Medicaid/Medicare people into these programs.

        10       People who are SSI-eligible, people who are

        11       HIV-positive, people who have serious mental

        12       illnesses, and children and adolescents with

        13       serious emotional disturbances, it mandates

        14       them into managed care.

        15                  These not only are people who are

        16       statistically sicker than the overall

        17       population -- because the Medicaid population

        18       is in fact sicker, statistically, than the

        19       overall population of New Yorkers -- it

        20       subsets out the sickest, so to speak, of the

        21       subpopulation of people on Medicaid in

        22       New York State and mandates them into programs

        23       that I would argue the evidence shows are not

        24       necessarily there for them and who in fact

        25       have not, at least till this date in the City



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         1       of New York -- I won't speak for the rest of

         2       the state -- been effective in ensuring that

         3       they have the services needed by these

         4       subpopulations of exceptionally ill people.

         5                  And what we have found over time

         6       also is that managed-care plans, whether

         7       they're involved with Medicaid or the paying

         8       insurance consumer or the Medicare consumer,

         9       have done pretty much anything they can to

        10       figure out how to avoid accepting or keeping

        11       or providing services to the most ill,

        12       because, again, one capitation rate, growing

        13       expenses for serving the ill.

        14                  And so I would argue that while we

        15       need to evaluate, as you point out very well,

        16       the need to expand the programs out there and

        17       the competition out there, decrease costs,

        18       make sure that we've got access to healthcare

        19       in every county in this state for people on

        20       Medicaid -- and I am not, by definition, an

        21       out-and-out opposer of managed care, although

        22       I share my colleague's view that we'd be doing

        23       far better in this state and country if we had

        24       a single-payer universal system -- I would

        25       argue that the data from New York City for



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         1       special-needs populations shows that those

         2       providers are still not out there, are really

         3       not equipped to deal with a sick population of

         4       people with special needs.  And that in fact

         5       if we mandated these subpopulations of

         6       special-needs sick Medicaid recipients into

         7       Medicaid managed-care plans, what we would

         8       find is that in some counties there were no

         9       providers who were truly willing to serve

        10       them.  And even in a city as large as

        11       New York, we would find that many of the

        12       fundamental basic healthcare services that

        13       they require are not available in a

        14       managed-care setting.

        15                  Which is why even in the program

        16       that's been set up a la special-needs

        17       population, Medicaid managed-care programs in

        18       the City of New York for the HIV-positive,

        19       we've seen actually people disenrolling over

        20       time as opposed to enrolling.  Not because

        21       they're philosophically opposed to managed

        22       care, but rather because they couldn't get the

        23       services they need.

        24                  So I think it's an underlying issue

        25       within the model of managed care -- capitation



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         1       fee, profits versus costs-out for

         2       healthcare -- managed care is a model that

         3       doesn't work as well for the very ill.  These

         4       are subpopulations who by definition are the

         5       very ill.

         6                  And so I would urge us to go back

         7       and consider parts of your bill without

         8       passing this section.  So I'll be voting no.

         9                  Thank you very much, Madam

        10       President.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        12       you.

        13                  Are there any other Senators

        14       wishing to be heard?

        15                  The debate is closed.

        16                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

        17                  Read the last section.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        21       the roll.

        22                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Senator

        24       Winner, to explain his vote.

        25                  SENATOR WINNER:    Thank you, Madam



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         1       President.  Briefly to explain my vote.

         2                  I'm supporting this bill very

         3       strongly because here in New York, as all of

         4       you know or should know, some 40 percent of

         5       our overall budget is expended for the

         6       Medicaid program.

         7                  In the Medicaid program there's

         8       nothing more urgent in this state than more

         9       managed care, more disease management, more

        10       control of our multiply chronically ill

        11       individuals.  We have a whole series of state

        12       agencies that are uncoordinated to provide

        13       Medicaid services -- the Department of Health,

        14       Office of Aging, OASAS, OMRDD, Department of

        15       Mental Health, the Education Department and

        16       others that direct Medicaid expenditures.  Yet

        17       there's no coordination.

        18                  And these chronically diseased,

        19       chronically ill individuals with these

        20       multiple illnesses make up a large proportion

        21       of the expenditures that we make under

        22       Medicaid.  And unless we get them under

        23       control, we're not only not going to provide

        24       them the adequate and proper care that Senator

        25       Hannon eloquently demonstrated, but we're not



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         1       going to provide the cost savings that Senator

         2       Rath is so diligently working for to provide

         3       for our localities and our state in this

         4       Medicaid program.

         5                  So I enthusiastically support this,

         6       because not only it is necessary but it is

         7       what we are going to have to do.  And this is

         8       going to happen, ladies and gentlemen, in the

         9       Medicaid program, or otherwise this state and

        10       other states throughout this country are going

        11       to go upside down from this Medicaid burden.

        12                  I vote aye.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        14       you.

        15                  Senator Winner will be recorded in

        16       the affirmative.

        17                  The Secretary will announce the

        18       results.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

        20       the negative on Calendar Number 1263 are

        21       Senators Diaz, Dilan, Duane, Hassell-Thompson,

        22       L. Krueger, C. Kruger, Montgomery, Parker,

        23       Paterson, Sabini, Savino, Schneiderman,

        24       Serrano, A. Smith and Stavisky.

        25                  Absent from voting:  Senators



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         1       Connor, Gonzalez and Sampson.

         2                  Ayes, 42.  Nays, 15.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         4       bill is passed.

         5                  The Secretary will read.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         7       1356, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 407, an

         8       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

         9                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:

        10       Explanation.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        12       you.

        13                  Senator Padavan, for an

        14       explanation.

        15                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Thank you,

        16       Madam President.

        17                  Very simply put, this bill would

        18       preclude the issuance of a driver's license to

        19       an illegal immigrant, an undocumented alien.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        21       you, Senator.

        22                  Senator Schneiderman.

        23                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I would

        24       like to thank the sponsor for the brevity of

        25       the explanation.



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         1                  On the bill, Madam President.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         3       you.  On the bill.

         4                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    The

         5       difficulty that I have -- and I have

         6       substantial difficulties with this piece of

         7       legislation, because I think it represents an

         8       absolutely incorrect, inefficient,

         9       inappropriate and improper approach to dealing

        10       with the immigration problems and the crisis

        11       that we face because of the breakdown in our

        12       federal immigration system.

        13                  The difficulty with this bill is

        14       that, as the sponsor indicates, it does

        15       preclude the Department of Motor Vehicles from

        16       issuing a driver's license to someone who is

        17       not -- cannot demonstrate that they are in the

        18       country legally.  Unfortunately, the way this

        19       bill would have that process occur I think

        20       takes a department that functions moderately

        21       well now, the Department of Motor Vehicles,

        22       and attempts to make a horse out of a cow.

        23                  The Department of Motor Vehicles

        24       would be turned into an immigration agency

        25       under this bill.  As it states, "The



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         1       department will be prohibited from issuing a

         2       driver's license or ID card to any person who

         3       does not submit satisfactory proof" -- I'm

         4       reading from the bill -- "that the applicant's

         5       presence in the United States is authorized

         6       under federal law."

         7                  Now, this means the clerks at the

         8       DMV are going to have to understand what

         9       satisfactory proof is.

        10                  It goes on to state:  "If the

        11       department determines or reasonably suspects,

        12       based on the information provided, that the

        13       applicant's presence in the United States is

        14       not authorized, the department shall notify

        15       the United States Bureau of Immigrations and

        16       Customs Enforcement."

        17                  This is, unfortunately, a vaguely

        18       worded mandate that the Department of Motor

        19       Vehicles become an immigration agency.

        20                  And I assure you that the

        21       professionals in our existing federal

        22       immigration service have a very difficult time

        23       assessing who is and who is not in the country

        24       legally.  Sometimes these situations are very,

        25       very complicated and difficult to ascertain.



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         1                  We had a case in my district of

         2       someone who is in the country, functioning

         3       legally, was a citizen by virtue of his

         4       mother's marriage to an American citizen, and

         5       an issue came up as to whether that marriage

         6       had been legal.  That required an inquiry

         7       about a marriage that had taken place 30 years

         8       earlier.

         9                  This legislation requires the

        10       Department of Motor Vehicles to assess whether

        11       or not someone is in the country legally and

        12       goes on to impose the requirement that they

        13       set up procedures to support -- and again, I'm

        14       reading from the bill -- "to set up appeals

        15       hearings from denials of licenses or temporary

        16       licenses."  So we're trying to create a whole

        17       immigration bureaucracy in the Department of

        18       Motor Vehicles.

        19                  And I realize the sponsor is

        20       concerned about issues of immigration law.

        21       But I would urge him that trying to make the

        22       Department of Motor Vehicles into a front-line

        23       agency to evaluate people's immigration status

        24       is the wrong approach.

        25                  This is going on in other states --



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         1       this is going on in other states, and I

         2       commend to anyone concerned with this issue

         3       the reports on what's happened in Tennessee.

         4       This drives people out of the system.  This

         5       forces people who otherwise would come in and

         6       get a license and be within the system for

         7       safety and law enforcement purposes out of the

         8       system, and I think creates two distinct

         9       harms.

        10                  One is what I've referred to before

        11       of turning the Department of Motor Vehicles

        12       into an immigration agency without providing

        13       it the resources or the training to do that.

        14       And we know from experiences in other states

        15       that this has had a very negative impact.

        16                  The second is this.  The purpose of

        17       a driver's license is to ensure that people

        18       have training, that they're safe, we know who

        19       they are, they have insurance.  That is a very

        20       important public safety function.  To the

        21       extent that you break down that agency and you

        22       have some people who are driving cars

        23       refusing -- because they're afraid of

        24       untrained clerks with vaguely worded statutes

        25       inquiring into their immigration status, they



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         1       don't go to the Department of Motor Vehicles.

         2       They're out of the system.

         3                  That is why law enforcement

         4       agencies, to the extent I've had contact with

         5       them on this issue -- and we do, because it's

         6       a major issue, obviously, in my district,

         7       where we have many -- we thrive because of the

         8       presence of many immigrants -- law enforcement

         9       officers don't like this approach of taking

        10       our motor vehicle system and attempting to

        11       make it into an immigration agency.

        12                  So I would urge the sponsor that

        13       there may be other things we can do to deal

        14       with the issues of the unlawful presence in

        15       this country of many immigrants.  But taking

        16       the Department of Motor Vehicles and trying to

        17       turn it into an immigration agency is not a

        18       good idea.

        19                  I realize that there's federal

        20       legislation that pushes us in this direction.

        21       It does not require us to do what is provided

        22       in this bill, however, Madam President.  And I

        23       would suggest that if we are going to make a

        24       move in this direction, which we may have to

        25       do because of the federal law, the way to do



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         1       this is in the context of the budget.

         2                  Let's see what DMV needs to make

         3       any steps that we are proposing.  We can't

         4       give them a mandate to set up a process for

         5       appeals hearings from denials of licenses or

         6       temporary licenses based on immigration status

         7       and then expect them to carry this out without

         8       creating chaos and without creating a

         9       situation in which people who are in this

        10       country lawfully will wrongfully be identified

        11       as people who are not, because it's sometimes

        12       hard to determine, and they don't have a right

        13       to a lawyer there.  The process would break

        14       down, I'm sure, very quickly, because even in

        15       the professional agencies mandated to do this

        16       today, we have major problems.

        17                  So I respectfully suggest that this

        18       is not the right piece of legislation to

        19       address this problem.  Let's work on the

        20       problem in a more serious and substantial way.

        21       Let's not ruin the Department of Motor

        22       Vehicles and create an entire new public

        23       safety problem and an entire new problem for

        24       immigrants.

        25                  Thank you, Madam President.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         2       you, Senator.

         3                  Senator Serrano.

         4                  SENATOR SERRANO:    I yield to the

         5       sponsor, who is standing.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Senator

         7       Padavan.

         8                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes, thank you,

         9       Madam President.  Let me respond to some of

        10       the observations made by the previous speaker.

        11                  First, let's talk about the

        12       driver's license.  He says its primary

        13       function is to ensure that the person behind

        14       that wheel is appropriately there, has passed

        15       the tests, is a safe driver, has insurance and

        16       so on.

        17                  That may be true.  But let me tell

        18       you some of the other uses of that driver's

        19       license.  It's the first document they ask

        20       before you get on an airplane:  May I see your

        21       driver's license?  If you're renting a motor

        22       vehicle or a small aircraft:  May I see your

        23       driver's license, as identity.  If you're

        24       buying a gun or ammunition, what's the

        25       document you provide?  A driver's license.



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         1       Filling a prescription, applying for a job,

         2       opening a bank account, receiving money wire

         3       transfers from abroad, enrolling in a training

         4       or educational program like learning to fly.

         5                  Do any of these things seem

         6       familiar to you?  Well, they are to me,

         7       because these are the things that those

         8       individuals who flew into the World Trade

         9       Center did.  They used a driver's license to

        10       gain access in a whole host of ways.  That's

        11       why the driver's license is so important.

        12       Which is why only last month a federal law was

        13       enacted and signed into law mandating that

        14       states do what this bill requires us to do.

        15                  Now, we talked about the DMV here a

        16       moment ago in terms of their responsibilities.

        17       The DMV has already stepped forward on this

        18       issue.  How do they do it?  Well, if you look

        19       at the application for a driver's license, you

        20       see one of the requirements is that you

        21       indicate what your Social Security number is,

        22       right on the form.  So what they did, very

        23       simply -- perhaps not so simply, but they did

        24       it -- they checked, through the computer

        25       system, the validity of those Social Security



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         1       numbers.  And they came up with 600,000

         2       individuals in this state where there was a

         3       false Social Security number.  Now, right

         4       away, when that person put that number down on

         5       the application, he or she committed a crime.

         6                  They set up a procedure for

         7       evaluating these wrong systems.  And they came

         8       up with 252,000 people who had not responded

         9       and not resolved the issue through their

        10       offices.

        11                  Now, the matter was taken into

        12       state court, and the court ruled at this

        13       juncture, at this level of the system, that

        14       they did not have the authority to revoke

        15       these driver's licenses by virtue of the

        16       action they had taken and that the Legislature

        17       had to give them the authority.  Now, that

        18       matter is on appeal.

        19                  In this bill we would be giving

        20       them the authority to do what they've already

        21       been doing.  So this nonsense about a

        22       bureaucracy or all of the problems that DMV

        23       would have really is not applicable at all.

        24       They've already done it.  They've already

        25       found out who these people are.  Now we want



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         1       to give them the authority to do what they

         2       intended to do, and that's take away their

         3       driver's license.

         4                  Now, the enactment that I referred

         5       to before which took place in the capital, in

         6       our nation's capital, Title 8, Chapter 12,

         7       Subchapter 11, part 9 specifically mandates

         8       that states deal with the driver's license

         9       issue in the fashion that we are attempting to

        10       do today.

        11                  There is a phase-in for that

        12       enactment, that's true.  But there's no reason

        13       in the world why we shouldn't step forward,

        14       particularly in view of what DMV has already

        15       done.

        16                  I've talked to the commissioner.

        17       He said they found examples of people with

        18       three different licenses, with three different

        19       Social Security numbers, with different

        20       driver's licenses in their possession for

        21       obviously illegal if not inappropriate

        22       purposes, depending upon the situation that

        23       they were dealing with.  Massive fraud.

        24                  In regard to the issue of

        25       "reasonable" that the previous speaker



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         1       referred to, "reasonable" is reasonable.  The

         2       DMV was reasonable in their approach to this

         3       problem.  And certainly we want them to

         4       continue to be reasonable.

         5                  There can be situations where there

         6       are errors.  Someone may have made a mistake

         7       when they put in the Social Security number.

         8       That has to be resolved.  We want them to be

         9       reasonable in how they approach this entire

        10       issue.

        11                  But the fact remains, we have an

        12       obligation to the people of this state to not

        13       only comply with federal law but to protect

        14       our citizens against those who are here who

        15       are up to no good, who are here to commit

        16       crimes, who are here as terrorists, who are

        17       here to rip off our system.  And that's what

        18       this legislation is all about.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        20       you, Senator Padavan.

        21                  Senator Serrano.

        22                  SENATOR SERRANO:    Madam

        23       President, on the bill.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    On the

        25       bill.



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         1                  SENATOR SERRANO:    We all know

         2       that immigration is the foundation of our

         3       society.  Yet over the years there's been such

         4       a steady eroding of the rights of new

         5       immigrants, there have been so many barriers

         6       that have been put in place that have made it

         7       more difficult for those seeking a better life

         8       to obtain the necessary papers that they need

         9       in order to, as this law would put it, to get

        10       a driver's license.

        11                  We all know that immigrants provide

        12       a major pillar in the foundation of our

        13       economy.  Without a driver's license, they

        14       will not be able to get to work, not be able

        15       to pay taxes, and not be able to make a better

        16       life for their family, which is the American

        17       dream.

        18                  And I believe that using 9/11 as a

        19       blanket excuse to hurt new immigrants is

        20       wrong.  Law enforcement's role is to root out

        21       terrorists and criminals.  And blanket methods

        22       that hurt the vast majority, vast majority of

        23       immigrants, which are here to build the

        24       American dream, is wrong.  They are here to

        25       defend this country, they are here to die for



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         1       this country.

         2                  And I think we should be doing

         3       something more to send a more positive message

         4       to the immigrants that we want to help them to

         5       get the papers that they need in a more timely

         6       manner, so that they will be able to apply for

         7       their driver's license or do whatever it is

         8       that they need to do.  Remove barriers to

         9       citizenship, which I think hurt immigrants

        10       year after year.

        11                  So I believe that this is the wrong

        12       message to send to immigrants.  This is the

        13       wrong message to send to those who are looking

        14       to build a better life for themselves here.

        15       And I intend to vote no on this, Madam

        16       President.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        18       you, Senator.

        19                  Senator Balboni.

        20                  SENATOR BALBONI:    Madam

        21       President, the place where I am seated in the

        22       chamber is eminently appropriate for my

        23       position on this bill.  I am between Frank

        24       Padavan and Senator Serrano on this particular

        25       issue.



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         1                  On the one hand, when I met with

         2       the spouses of victims of 9/11 and with the

         3       Director of Homeland Security, Jim McMahon,

         4       they had one message:  Hey, it's four years

         5       later.  What are we waiting for with driver's

         6       license security?  We know it was the tool

         7       that terrorists used to gain access to the

         8       country.  Why haven't we fixed it?  What are

         9       we waiting for, and what is it going to take

        10       to act?

        11                  And then I traveled to Washington,

        12       D.C., represented 50 states in the nation in a

        13       negotiated rule-making group that talked about

        14       the implementation of this fix for driver's

        15       licenses.  And what became very apparent was

        16       that you can't shut out the immigrant, that so

        17       much of our society depends upon the immigrant

        18       being able to drive.  And that in certain

        19       cases it almost becomes secondary -- yes,

        20       secondary.

        21                  You know why?  Because what became

        22       very apparent is that the federal government

        23       does not have their act together when it comes

        24       to immigration, plain and simple.  They have

        25       never committed the resources they need to



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         1       commit to make our borders secure, safe and

         2       usable by folks who are innocent, law-abiding

         3       and taxpaying, who want to become citizens but

         4       we don't give them the opportunity.  They have

         5       to stand in lines around the immigration

         6       departments in Lower Manhattan waiting to try

         7       to get a visa, waiting to try to get a green

         8       card.  And we've never, never in this nation

         9       recognized that how we view government isn't

        10       the way everybody in the world views

        11       government.

        12                  On Long Island there's a huge

        13       population of individuals from El Salvador.

        14       Look at the El Salvadorian history.  They view

        15       government with suspicion, not with hope.  And

        16       yet I think we've done a terrible job as a

        17       nation, frankly, in reaching out to those

        18       immigrants to say, You know what, we want you

        19       here in this country, we want you here

        20       legally, we want you here as part of the

        21       mosaic.  We've not done a good job.

        22                  So here's the conflict.  On the one

        23       hand, Frank Padavan is absolutely correct.

        24       This bill is what the federal government has

        25       now said we must have.  And in three years, if



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         1       we don't adopt this type of language, guess

         2       what happens?  Our driver's licenses will not

         3       be usable for any federal purpose.  That means

         4       getting into a federal building, that means

         5       getting on a plane, that means doing anything

         6       else.

         7                  But the Real ID Act did something

         8       that was bad.  It put the cart before the

         9       horse.  It said:  Create a system of security,

        10       do it now, but we're not going to tell you

        11       what will constitute the safe card.  We're not

        12       going to give you any of the parameters.  You

        13       decide that yourself.  We're not going to give

        14       you guidance.  But make it secure and make it

        15       now.

        16                  We had an opportunity on this

        17       rule-making committee to actually get through

        18       some of these hard issues, and our legs were

        19       cut off in the middle of the process.  That's

        20       too bad.

        21                  But like it or not, Frank Padavan's

        22       bill is necessary.  And like it or not, we

        23       need to change the way we view the immigrant

        24       population in this nation and the realities of

        25       how people live and work in our society today.



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         1                  I'm going to wait and hear the rest

         2       of the debate.  I don't know how I'm voting on

         3       the bill.  But I tell you this.  We need to

         4       talk a lot more about this, because these are

         5       the basic tensions of our society.  And until

         6       we figure out to solve this and make it into a

         7       user-friendly, secure system, we won't be

         8       secure and we won't be user-friendly for

         9       anybody that we want in our nation.

        10                  Thank you, Madam President.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        12       you, Senator Balboni.

        13                  Senator Parker.

        14                  SENATOR PARKER:    Madam President,

        15       on the bill.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        17       you.  On the bill.

        18                  SENATOR PARKER:    I continue to be

        19       disturbed by bills that come up in this house

        20       that are both anti-immigrant and also, I

        21       think, overstep the bounds of what our

        22       authority is as a state legislature.

        23                  I want to agree with Senator

        24       Serrano as he talks about what we ought to be

        25       doing here:  really, the value of making not



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         1       just the United States but New York State, the

         2       Empire State, more accessible to immigrants.

         3       Here we're talking about, you know, again a

         4       country, a state, a city that was built on the

         5       backs of immigrants.

         6                  And, you know, I think that some

         7       people in this Legislature suffer from what I

         8       call the Mayflower complex.  And in the

         9       Mayflower complex, people all dream, they

        10       imagine that their ancestors arrived here on

        11       the Mayflower, before there was a United

        12       States, before there was a Constitution.  That

        13       they were here, you know, standing next to the

        14       aboriginals and, you know, thus did not need

        15       any kind of naturalization.  They pretend that

        16       everything is fair and equitable for everyone

        17       and that the American pie is an endless supply

        18       that anybody can just make access to.  But

        19       unfortunately, that is not the reality.

        20                  And this Legislature is really

        21       proof positive of that, that we need to work

        22       together to figure out how we in fact make

        23       this place a better place for everyone,

        24       particularly for immigrants, who have given so

        25       much and continue to give so much.



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         1                  I mean, let's understand who they

         2       are.  The people who we are talking about

         3       denying access to drive a car today or to

         4       drive a vehicle or deny access for a driver's

         5       license are the people who drive cabs.

         6       They're the people who upstate, you know, make

         7       this one of the greatest agricultural

         8       communities in the entire country.

         9                  You know, New York State is the

        10       number-one producer of apples in the country,

        11       the number-two producer of cabbage, the

        12       number-three producer of snap peas and sweet

        13       corn, the second-largest producer of maple

        14       products, the fourth-largest producer or

        15       fifth-largest producer of dairy products.  I

        16       mean -- and how does that stuff all get from

        17       upstate farms to our shelves in Brooklyn?

        18       Well, there are lots of immigrants who are

        19       engaged in farming all over the state of

        20       New York.

        21                  They are people who drive cabs and

        22       drive trucks.  They are the folks who clean

        23       our houses.  They are the folks who take care

        24       of our children.  These are working men and

        25       women who want nothing more than an



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         1       opportunity to make a living in this country.

         2                  And I'm glad to see my colleague

         3       Senator Balboni speak to and point out the

         4       failure of leadership at the national level.

         5       Because President Bush has talked about, you

         6       know, making it accessible for immigrants to

         7       earn a living and to be engaged in the

         8       economic system of the United States.

         9       However, there has been no bill submitted.  To

        10       date, there's no bill submitted.

        11                  And so we really need to figure out

        12       exactly, again, the issues that Senator

        13       Balboni raised.  How do we give the vast

        14       majority of people who are here, who intend to

        15       be law-abiding, an opportunity to enjoy the

        16       economic opportunities that are present here

        17       in this great country, but at the same time

        18       protect ourselves against, you know, terrorist

        19       acts that we are now clear face us?

        20                  And I think that part of that needs

        21       to be done on the national level.  And we

        22       really need to, you know, work together.

        23       Maybe a joint letter from the members of this

        24       Legislature, which I would love to help sit

        25       down and draft and obviously sign, you know,



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         1       asking the federal government to do better

         2       both at the immigration process but, more

         3       importantly, at dealing with fighting

         4       terrorism.

         5                  And particularly making sure that

         6       states like New York State are higher on the

         7       priority list in terms of how federal dollars

         8       are doled out.  And making sure that we are

         9       able to get the things that we need for first

        10       responders.  And to make sure that we have the

        11       kind of intelligence network across this

        12       country and throughout the world that we

        13       really need in order to prevent terrorism.

        14                  However, this bill doesn't do that.

        15       This bill is a response to the Real ID Act,

        16       and I do understand that.  And where I agree

        17       with Senator Balboni on the fact that we need

        18       to respond to this duality, I disagree in the

        19       fact that this is the only way that we in fact

        20       can respond to the Real ID Act.  Because

        21       there's actually many options.  And creating a

        22       second tier is not the only option that

        23       exists.  And we need to have a more thorough

        24       discussion about that.

        25                  I don't know, let's try something,



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         1       you know, radical.  I don't know, a public

         2       hearing might work in terms of, you know,

         3       finding out what are the things that our

         4       constituents and some of the experts are

         5       thinking.  I don't want to, you know, push

         6       this legis -- I know this is a deliberative

         7       body; I don't want to push us too far.  But

         8       maybe a public hearing might work in terms of

         9       us, you know, trying to get to the root of

        10       this serious problem.

        11                  Our driver's licenses must be

        12       something that are of value.  It does provide,

        13       as Senator Padavan pointed out, a first and

        14       primary ID for most people.  And it should

        15       continue to do that, and we need to figure out

        16       the best way to do that.  But I'm not clear --

        17       actually, I'm very clear that it doesn't stop

        18       people who are engaged in terrorism from

        19       hatching their devilish schemes.

        20                  9/11, which is near the forefront

        21       of everybody's mind as we talk about

        22       terrorism, the men who were engaged in that

        23       horrible, horrible, horrible event had

        24       documents, had driver's licenses.  It was not

        25       those driver's licenses that allowed them to



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         1       get on the plane.  It was not those driver's

         2       licenses that allowed them to get access to

         3       the things they had access to.  In fact, most

         4       of them were here legally, in fact.

         5                  So not having their driver's

         6       license would not have stopped them from

         7       boarding the plane, it would not have stopped

         8       them from flying the planes into the towers,

         9       it would not have stopped them from hatching

        10       what, again, proved to be one of the darkest

        11       days in this country's history.

        12                  And in fact, if you listen to the

        13       experts on the federal level, having driver's

        14       licenses actually allowed the law enforcement

        15       to identify who the terrorists were.  And in

        16       fact, we ought to be looking at ways to get

        17       people registered in the system so we know who

        18       people are and where they are.  That is a way

        19       that you deter terrorism and you deter -- and

        20       I mean, you know, just last week we were

        21       talking about sex offenders, and we want to

        22       put ID bracelets on sex offenders because we

        23       want to know where they are.

        24                  So what you're now saying is that

        25       you want to take away ID from people so they



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         1       can disappear, so we don't know where they

         2       are.  So instead of having people that we

         3       begin with having a description, an address

         4       and a photo of, so that we can ID people,

         5       you're now saying let's make potential

         6       terrorists, who may in fact be illegal

         7       immigrants, let's make them totally invisible

         8       to the system.  So that if in fact something

         9       does happen, we have no way to track them.

        10       That's what this legislation does.

        11                  And it has a number of

        12       implications.  One of the things that bothers

        13       me, and this is why, in coming here with the

        14       leadership of David A. Paterson, we created

        15       and David has given me an opportunity to chair

        16       a task force on new Americans, to in fact look

        17       at and discuss these issues in a way that

        18       comes out in a win-win.  Because if we in fact

        19       do this, the implications for our communities

        20       are going to be great, not just in mine but

        21       also in the sponsor's community, where people

        22       will not be able to earn a living, where both

        23       their dollars and their work will drop off of

        24       the grid, people will stop paying taxes,

        25       people will stop being engaged in the legal



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         1       economy.

         2                  But then also, many people who use

         3       transportation either as a means to earn their

         4       living or people who use transportation as a

         5       way to get to their job, I hate to tell us, I

         6       hate to tell people this, but they are not

         7       going to stop driving.  They are not going to

         8       stop driving.

         9                  It would be irresponsible for me as

        10       a legislator and a member of the Insurance

        11       Committee to stand here and vote for a bill

        12       that I know will continue to increase

        13       ratepayers' rates around the state on

        14       insurance.  Because we will not only have more

        15       people driving without insurance, but if you

        16       think the number of hit-and-runs that has been

        17       documented by the Daily News and the Post and

        18       the Times is bad now, take away people's

        19       driver's licenses and let's see what happens.

        20                  The numbers of hit-and-run

        21       accidents I assure you is going to quadruple.

        22       It's going to be through the roof.  And what

        23       that will do to the insurance rates in places

        24       like Brooklyn and Queens and the Bronx will

        25       be -- people will not be able to afford to



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         1       drive cars.  We'll have insurance companies

         2       fleeing the state.  It will be a nightmare.

         3                  And so this bill doesn't take us

         4       where we need to go.  Because if you think

         5       that a terrorist is going to be deterred --

         6       you take a terrorist, somebody who's going to

         7       blow up a corporate headquarters, who gets a

         8       van, fills it up with explosives, is going to

         9       drive it through the lobby of a office

        10       building.  You think that they're going to get

        11       there and say, Oh, I don't have a driver's

        12       license, I can't do this dastardly deed?  It's

        13       ridiculous.

        14                  We are simply stopping people who

        15       want to be engaged in this country's economy,

        16       people who are primarily hardworking and

        17       good-intentioned.  We are really killing the

        18       opportunity.  We are waking people up from the

        19       American dream.  And that's not what I think

        20       the sponsor wants to do.  That's not what I

        21       think this Legislature wants to do.

        22                  And so I would ask that we don't

        23       vote no, but the sponsor withdraw this bill,

        24       that we immediately get together and convene

        25       some public hearings to talk about how we



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         1       engage this bill.  And I will even come back,

         2       you know, from my summer vacation so that we

         3       may pass a bill that deals with properly

         4       addressing the issues of driver's licenses and

         5       making sure that we not only have a safe state

         6       but we have one that's accessible to the hopes

         7       and dreams of the people who have come here to

         8       earn a decent life.

         9                  Thank you, Madam President.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        11       you.

        12                  Senator Diaz.

        13                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Thank you, Madam

        14       President.

        15                  Through you, Madam President, will

        16       the sponsor yield for a question.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        18       you.

        19                  Senator Padavan, do you yield for a

        20       question?

        21                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes, certainly.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        23       you.

        24                  The Senator yields.

        25                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Thank you.



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         1                  I am a Puerto Rican.  Puerto Rico

         2       is a small island in the Caribbean.  For

         3       what's recently happened in the world, Puerto

         4       Rico is part of the United States.  And I

         5       belong to a party in Puerto Rico called the

         6       New Progressive Party.  That is a party that

         7       wants Puerto Rico to become the 51st state.

         8                  And this is the star of that party.

         9       This is the star.  Whenever you see this star,

        10       anybody, that means the person --

        11                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    May I inquire

        12       what your question is, Senator?

        13                  SENATOR DIAZ:    I'm going to get

        14       to that.  I'm going to get to the question.

        15                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Okay, thank

        16       you.

        17                  SENATOR DIAZ:    That means that

        18       anybody, people that wear this star want

        19       Puerto Rico to be a state.  And why is it that

        20       we want Puerto Rico to become a state?

        21       Because we avoid a lot of problems by coming

        22       here and by getting jobs and by producing

        23       paper.

        24                  Now, do you, Senator Padavan, do

        25       you know that there are close to 300,000



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         1       people with driver's licenses that are in

         2       danger of losing those licenses?

         3                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Senator, I

         4       don't know if you heard me --

         5                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Yes or no?

         6                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    What?

         7                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Do you know

         8       that --

         9                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    I'm going to

        10       answer your question.

        11                  SENATOR DIAZ:    I just want you to

        12       answer my question.  Do you know --

        13                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    I am going to

        14       answer your question.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        16       Senator is answering.

        17                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Is it yes or no?

        18                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    As I indicated

        19       earlier, the Department of Motor Vehicle

        20       bureau, our state agency responsible for the

        21       issuance of driver's licenses, by virtue of

        22       checking Social Security numbers, determined

        23       in the final analysis that there were 252,000

        24       driver's licenses that were fraudulently in

        25       possession of individuals that we've been



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         1       talking about.

         2                  So therefore, I do know that there

         3       are a significant number of people who are

         4       driving with fraudulent driver's licenses

         5       obtained in a fraudulent manner.

         6                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Madam President,

         7       through you, will the sponsor yield.

         8                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        10       you.  Senator Padavan yields.

        11                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Senator Padavan,

        12       then in order that those persons that have

        13       driver's licenses, they use those driver's

        14       licenses to work, they are earning money, they

        15       are driving trucks, taxis, they are supporting

        16       their families, through that -- because of

        17       that driver's license.

        18                  What do you suggest we do with

        19       them?

        20                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Well, Senator,

        21       the bill is very specific in this matter.  If

        22       they are an illegal immigrant, a referral

        23       should be made and must be made, by virtue of

        24       this bill, to immigration authorities.

        25                  SENATOR DIAZ:    So we should put



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         1       them -- through you, Madam --

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Senator

         3       Padavan, do you yield?

         4                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         6       Senator yields.

         7                  SENATOR DIAZ:    So we should put

         8       all of them on a barge, on a ship, and send

         9       them back to their countries?

        10                  SENATOR SALAND:    Every person who

        11       is addressed in that manner has an opportunity

        12       for a hearing and an appeal.  There is a

        13       process that is followed.  And that process

        14       should be followed.

        15                  You know, Senator, you know, I've

        16       listened to a lot of dialogue from you and

        17       your predecessor there on the floor, and some

        18       of it I find particularly offensive.  The

        19       second time he indicated to me that my bill

        20       was anti-immigrant.

        21                  Now, I happen to be a

        22       second-generation immigrant in this country.

        23       My grandparents on both sides came here from

        24       Italy at a time when vast numbers of

        25       immigrants came to this country.  And we see



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         1       another wave of immigrants coming to this

         2       country.  And they are welcome because they

         3       provide so many resources and benefits,

         4       whether they come from Puerto Rico or wherever

         5       they come from.  Although Puerto Rico is part

         6       of our -- you are a citizen if you are in

         7       Puerto Rico.

         8                  But the fact remains, the fact

         9       remains they came here legally.  They came

        10       here with good purposes in mind, to improve

        11       their economic status, to raise a family, to

        12       work hard, to be contributors to this great

        13       nation.  We are all, in this chamber, unless

        14       we happen to be Native Americans, the products

        15       of immigration.  And we're all proud of it.

        16                  I'm proud of the sacrifice that my

        17       grandparents made.  They were very brave

        18       people.  They gave everything, they gave up

        19       everything and got into a boat on steerage --

        20       is there someone up on the balcony you want to

        21       talk to, or you want to listen to me?

        22                  SENATOR DIAZ:    I'm listening to

        23       you.

        24                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    You're throwing

        25       kisses up there, and I'm just curious as to



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         1       who it was.

         2                  SENATOR DIAZ:    You're not

         3       answering my question.

         4                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    I'm answering

         5       your question.

         6                  SENATOR DIAZ:    No, you're not.

         7                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Now, the fact

         8       remains that we have an obligation in this

         9       country to protect all our citizens.  In my

        10       county -- which is referred to often, because

        11       it's so -- the most diverse county in the

        12       nation, we have more different immigrant

        13       populations in Queens than any part of this

        14       country.  And many of them, if not most of

        15       them, live in my district.  They're wonderful

        16       people.  They all make a contribution.

        17                  When you have someone who came to

        18       this country up to no good, who does get a

        19       driver's license by breaking a law, both

        20       federal and state -- when you forge a Social

        21       Security number, you've violated a federal

        22       law.  When you put it on an application with

        23       the Department of Motor Vehicle bureau, you're

        24       violating a state law.  So at that point in

        25       time they've already committed two crimes.



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         1                  When those type of individuals are

         2       out in the community, then we have to be

         3       concerned and we have to take action.  And

         4       that's what this bill is all about.

         5                  The Statue of Liberty has at the

         6       foot of it, Senator, some beautiful words:

         7       Send us your wretched, your yearning masses to

         8       breathe free.  And on and on it goes.  It

         9       doesn't say:  Send us your thieves, your

        10       cutthroats, your robbers, your arsonists, your

        11       terrorists.  That's not who we want to welcome

        12       here.  And if they fall in the category of

        13       these people, then we have an obligation to do

        14       something about it.

        15                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Madam President,

        16       through you, will the sponsor continue to

        17       yield.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        19       you.

        20                  Senator Padavan, do you continue to

        21       yield?

        22                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Yes,

        24       the Senator yields.

        25                  SENATOR DIAZ:    I'm going ask my



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         1       question one more time to see if we could

         2       understand each other.

         3                  Most of the 350,000, 400,000 people

         4       who happens to have driver's licenses in the

         5       State of New York, they, the majority of them

         6       use that driver's license to support their

         7       families, to work, to earn an honest living,

         8       drive trucks, taxis, whatever.  What do you

         9       suggest, Senator Padavan, that we do with

        10       them?

        11                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Very simply,

        12       Senator, we do what the bill says.  If they're

        13       an illegal immigrant, refer them to that

        14       authority that must deal with that issue.

        15                  SENATOR DIAZ:    And the families?

        16                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Senator, if you

        17       applied for a medical license and you did so

        18       fraudulently, they take away your medical

        19       license.  If you applied for a barber's

        20       license and you did so fraudulently, they take

        21       away your barber's license.

        22                  These licenses are privileges.

        23       They're not rights.  If you do not apply

        24       properly and legally, you're not entitled to

        25       the license.  That's the only answer I can



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         1       give you.

         2                  SENATOR DIAZ:    One last question,

         3       if he have the desire to listen to me for one

         4       more question, Madam President.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         6       you.

         7                  Senator Padavan, do you yield for

         8       an additional question?

         9                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        11       you.

        12                  The Senator yields.

        13                  SENATOR DIAZ:    I don't understand

        14       the purpose of this bill.  Maybe --

        15                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    I'm sorry,

        16       what?

        17                  SENATOR DIAZ:    The purpose of

        18       this bill.

        19                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    The purpose of

        20       the bill.

        21                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Yes.

        22                  Number one, I don't know -- I'll

        23       play Columbo here.  I don't know if the bill

        24       is to stop issuing driver's licenses or to

        25       make the Department of Motor Vehicles an agent



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         1       of the immigration department.  So which one

         2       of the two is it?

         3                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Senator, I hate

         4       to be repetitious, because I'm sure people

         5       are --

         6                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Please.  You know,

         7       I'm a dumb Puerto Rican.

         8                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    But I'll repeat

         9       what I said to you earlier --

        10                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Don't worry, I'm a

        11       dumb Puerto Rican that --

        12                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    I'm not

        13       worried.  You may not be worried.  But others

        14       may be worried.  And I'll tell you what

        15       they're worried about.

        16                  The driver's license, what is it

        17       used for?  We said it before, to get on an

        18       airplane, to rent an airplane, to rent a car,

        19       to do all kinds of things.  How many times in

        20       your life -- I'm sure you will think about

        21       this for the moment -- have you been asked for

        22       your driver's license as a form of valid

        23       identity?  Thousands.  And it happens all the

        24       time, it happens everywhere.

        25                  So the driver's license is not just



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         1       permission to drive a car.  It's the primary

         2       source of identification everywhere you go,

         3       for almost every purpose you could possibly

         4       think of.

         5                  So when terrorists transfer money

         6       which they use to do their thing -- or other

         7       criminal activity, drug smuggling.  We passed

         8       a bill here just yesterday, which passed

         9       unanimously, dealing with placing immigrants

        10       in bondage, in slavery, for prostitution and

        11       other things, and money is transferred back

        12       and forth.  What is used?  The driver's

        13       license.  You could go on and on on that

        14       issue.

        15                  And so when we deal with the

        16       driver's license, we're talking about a great

        17       deal more than driving.  And that's why it's

        18       so critical that the driver's license should

        19       be in the hands of someone who has not already

        20       committed a crime.  The word "unlawful" is

        21       quite clear.  And when you get that driver's

        22       license in the manner I've described, you have

        23       committed an unlawful act.

        24                  And if you're an illegal immigrant,

        25       you're here illegally and action should be



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         1       taken as it's deemed appropriate by those

         2       agencies that have the enforcement authority.

         3                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Madam President,

         4       on the bill.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         6       you.

         7                  Senator Diaz, on the bill.

         8                  SENATOR DIAZ:    In the three years

         9       that I have been here, I have learned that

        10       once a bill comes onto the floor, it is an

        11       exercise in futility to discuss it.  You're

        12       going to pass it anyway.  So -- but let me

        13       vent my frustration.

        14                  And this bill that I'm reading

        15       here, even though Senator Padavan says that

        16       the bill is to correct or to deal with the

        17       issuing of driver's licenses, when I read the

        18       bill Section 502(B), paragraph 3, the bill

        19       reads as follows:  "If the department

        20       determines or reasonably suspects, based upon

        21       the information provided to it, that the

        22       applicant's presence in the United States is

        23       not authorized under federal law, the

        24       department" -- meaning the Department of Motor

        25       Vehicles -- "the department shall notify the



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         1       United States Bureau of Immigration and

         2       Customs Enforcement of such person's suspected

         3       illegal status."

         4                  So I don't understand if this bill

         5       is to deal with the driver's license or to

         6       make the Department of Transportation an agent

         7       of the immigration department.

         8                  Paragraph 4 reads:  "The department

         9       shall adopt regulations to carry out the

        10       purposes of this section, including procedures

        11       for but not limited to verifying that the

        12       applicant's presence in the United States is

        13       authorized under federal law."  So that means

        14       that this bill is making the Department of

        15       Transportation an agent of the immigration

        16       bureau.

        17                  And if that's what we're doing --

        18       that's what I was asking.  I want to

        19       understand, is that what we're doing.  Are we

        20       dealing with the driver's licenses, or are we

        21       dealing with making the Department of

        22       Transportation an agent of the immigration

        23       department?

        24                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Madam

        25       President, will the Senator yield?



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         2       you.

         3                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Senator, did

         4       you hear me earlier when I told that you even

         5       without the federal statute, last year, over a

         6       period of time, the Department of Motor

         7       Vehicles, on its own initiative, without any

         8       direction from the Legislature, attempted to

         9       determine whether driver's licenses were in

        10       the hands of people illegally?

        11                  They took the initiative and

        12       checked the Social Security numbers, which

        13       they're able to do now.  They determined there

        14       were over a quarter-million people out there

        15       who are running around with driver's licenses

        16       that they obtained fraudulently.  This bill

        17       didn't make them do anything.  They already

        18       did it.

        19                  Now, the problem is their actions

        20       have been challenged in the courts.  And this

        21       legislation would in effect give them the

        22       authority to do what they've already done.  I

        23       hope you understand that, Senator.

        24                  SENATOR DIAZ:    No, I don't.

        25                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Well, then,



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         1       you're not listening.

         2                  SENATOR DIAZ:    I don't.  I mean,

         3       I --

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         5       you, Senator.

         6                  SENATOR DIAZ:    They -- the

         7       Department of Transportation started to --

         8       started a policy to stop issuing driver's

         9       licenses --

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Excuse

        11       me, Senator Diaz.  Are you speaking on the

        12       bill?

        13                  SENATOR DIAZ:    I'm still on the

        14       bill.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:

        16       Continue, thank you.

        17                  SENATOR DIAZ:    I'm still on the

        18       bill, Madam President.  And he stopped me for

        19       a question.

        20                  The Department of Motor Vehicles

        21       stopped issuing driver's licenses unless,

        22       unless the person could produce the necessary

        23       documents.  And that was said.  But the

        24       Department of Motor Vehicles never was

        25       reporting to the immigration department those



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         1       people that don't have papers.

         2                  This bill, this bill says here that

         3       this bill is authorizing the Department of

         4       Transportation to report illegal immigrants if

         5       the Department of Transportation feels that

         6       that person has not the necessary papers to be

         7       in this country.  That's what this bill is

         8       saying.

         9                  And I'm saying that's outrageous.

        10       That's -- that's not what we're dealing with.

        11       I mean, we're dealing with driver's licenses,

        12       or we're dealing with making departments to

        13       start reporting to the Department of

        14       Immigration everybody that cannot produce

        15       papers?  And that's -- that's -- that's what I

        16       don't understand.

        17                  I'm Puerto Rican; I'm saying again,

        18       I don't have the problems.  But we have

        19       350,000 or 300,000 people that are working.

        20       And the Department of Transportation issued

        21       those driver's licenses to them.  They have

        22       driver's licenses.  They are working, they are

        23       supporting their family, they are supporting

        24       their children, they are paying taxes.  Now,

        25       we take away those driver's licenses, are they



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         1       going to work to support their family?  Or we

         2       should send the family to welfare?

         3                  (Response from gallery.)

         4                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Thank you.  At

         5       least I got one follower there.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Senator

         7       Morahan.

         8                  SENATOR MORAHAN:    Thank you,

         9       Madam President.

        10                  I rise here really to address a

        11       greater issue that we are speaking all about,

        12       around, but not to.

        13                  I'm a son of immigrants.  My family

        14       came, my mother and father came from the other

        15       side of the ocean.  They settled here, they

        16       went through the application process.  My

        17       father delivered ice off an ice wagon, my

        18       mother worked as a domestic, and they became

        19       citizens.  Never had a driver's license;

        20       raised us anyhow.  Put us through schools.

        21       They spent their lives trying to make the

        22       world for us, their children, and I in turn

        23       for my children, their grandchildren.  I never

        24       had the privilege to meet a grandparent of

        25       mine.



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         1                  So when I hear about immigrant talk

         2       here, I have no problem with immigrants.  But

         3       there's a difference, in my mind, between an

         4       immigrant and an illegal alien.  That's the

         5       term that we should be using, as opposed to

         6       "immigrant."

         7                  This country was built and will

         8       continue to be built by immigrants.  It's the

         9       one thing that makes our nation strong.

        10       Because our population, no matter what the

        11       birth rate, continues to grow.  And a country

        12       and a nation with a growing economy is a

        13       prosperous nation.  So immigration is indeed,

        14       by itself, welcomed.

        15                  Now, we're talking about a nation

        16       of laws and regulations that come from those

        17       laws.  And either we are a nation of laws or

        18       we're not.  And what I hear here is that if

        19       people come into this country through illegal

        20       means and have an illegal status, that's the

        21       bar that they have to meet.  And once you get

        22       to that bar, you're fine.  Well, it's really

        23       not that way, not if we have the laws that we

        24       have on the books.

        25                  You want to change the laws on the



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         1       books?  If we want to say as a nation that

         2       anyone who comes to our shores and arrives

         3       here safely is welcomed, period, end, they can

         4       vote the next day or whatever you want them to

         5       do as citizens, or declare them as citizens,

         6       that's a law.  That's a change.  But that is

         7       not the law in this country.  It's not the

         8       regulations that are the outcropping of those

         9       laws.  And I think that's what concerns many

        10       people around this state.

        11                  Senator Parker mentioned President

        12       Bush.  President Bush came out with a proposal

        13       to give amnesty to all of those who are here

        14       now illegally, if you will, but give them

        15       status so they could remain.  It was

        16       universally rejected.  By Congress?  Not

        17       necessarily.  But by the American people,

        18       people along all the southern states, along

        19       the borders.  People don't like that idea.

        20       They think that there's a process and we ought

        21       to meet that process.

        22                  So I get a little upset when I hear

        23       this anti-immigration talk.  I don't think

        24       anybody would be in this room without

        25       immigration.  So that is not purpose of this



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         1       bill.

         2                  We use the ID, the driver's

         3       license, as an acceptable, universal ID all

         4       through this state and indeed this nation.  If

         5       I go to an airport, I have to show my passport

         6       or my driver's license.  If I cash a check, I

         7       have to show my driver's license.  There's not

         8       anything I do that takes verification that I

         9       don't have to show my driver's license.  So

        10       we're talking about probably the most

        11       intrinsic document that verifies our

        12       citizenship or being and who we are.  Even if

        13       we don't drive, we now use the same process

        14       for the nondriving resident ID.

        15                  Now, if you don't like that, then

        16       we ought to propose different sorts of laws.

        17       But what Senator Padavan is proposing here is

        18       that this is something that's being done as we

        19       speak.  They have found hundreds of thousands

        20       of people with fraudulent IDs -- and licenses,

        21       therefore.  And I don't know that I feel

        22       comfortable with 200,000 people riding around

        23       with fraudulent driver's licenses.  We don't

        24       know how they got them.  Did they pass a test,

        25       they didn't pass a test?  Are they insured?



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         1       It brings up a host of other questions, not

         2       merely going to work.

         3                  There's ways to deal with the

         4       immigration problems.  When I met with Mr. Jim

         5       Kallstrom, former FBI director for New York

         6       City, when I was chairing the Veterans and

         7       Military Affairs Committee in this Senate, we

         8       talked about security.  And at that time it

         9       was almost a laughingstock on the security

        10       around this building after we even put it in

        11       place.  It's still something that's built like

        12       a sieve.  And I asked him, "How do we really

        13       deal with that?"  He said, "Senator, this is

        14       all cosmetic.  It's all about feeling a little

        15       bit safer."

        16                  But you're not safe.  You're not

        17       safe till you protect your borders.  You're

        18       not safe till you know who's inside the

        19       borders.  That's when we'll be safe.  I don't

        20       know that we'll ever be there, but we

        21       certainly should have that as some sort of

        22       goal.

        23                  Look at the alleged vigilantes that

        24       were covering the borders in the southeast

        25       part of -- the southwest, rather, in Texas,



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         1       along the borders.  Citizens who were so riled

         2       up about the immigration, illegal immigration,

         3       that they took it onto themselves to guard the

         4       borders.  That's a very dangerous situation.

         5       That's how things bad things happen.  But it

         6       shows how driven people are about this issue.

         7                  The Department of Motor Vehicles

         8       now does its screening.  It does what it does,

         9       there is an appeal process.  Obviously, one

        10       appeal went to court and it was found -- the

        11       court said they didn't have the authority

        12       because there was no specific law saying this

        13       or that.  But the court did not dismiss the

        14       case.  The court did not say that Motor

        15       Vehicles was wrong.  It just said they didn't

        16       have the authority to back them up.

        17                  This bill does that.  This bill

        18       should be nothing to be feared for -- feared

        19       by immigrants or illegal -- legal immigrants.

        20       Illegal aliens, that's another issue.

        21                  How do we deal with the illegal

        22       aliens that are in the country already, paying

        23       taxes, if they are, supporting their families,

        24       as they do?  I represent a farming community

        25       as well as others.  And we do much for the



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         1       immigrant farmers.  And these are itinerant

         2       farmers, labors, if you will, who come from

         3       across our borders with papers and work here

         4       temporarily, bring in the crops, and go back

         5       home to their families.

         6                  Some bring their families.  I visit

         7       with their children in summer schools when

         8       they're being trained up here and educated up

         9       here.  But they are immigrants for a purpose.

        10       They're farmworkers.  They come under

        11       regulations, and they are protected by

        12       regulations.

        13                  So I believe this bill deserves our

        14       support.  I support you, Senator Padavan, in

        15       this attempt to bring some control, if you

        16       will, over what is happening around us.

        17                  Thank you, Madam President.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        19       you, Senator Morahan.

        20                  Senator Marcellino.

        21                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Madam

        22       President, very briefly.

        23                  But when we're talking about the

        24       illegal status, what we're talking about is

        25       condemning people to be permanently in an



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         1       underclass, permanently in a limbo state where

         2       they have no recourse to the courts, in fact,

         3       because if they do go to the police, go to the

         4       authorities, they're exposing their illegal

         5       status and putting themselves at risk.

         6                  Someone talked about them paying

         7       taxes.  Aside from sales tax, I don't know

         8       what they could pay.  They're mostly paid off

         9       the books.  They're not paid on the books.

        10       They can't be paid on the books because they

        11       don't have legal status.

        12                  So we're dealing with a group of

        13       people who really do not have access to the

        14       American dream that they've come here for.

        15       And I agree, most -- they're not coming here

        16       to be terrorists, most are not here to be

        17       terrorists, most are not here to do bad

        18       things.  Most are coming here to seek a better

        19       life.  I agree with that.  And I think we

        20       should make an effort to determine that and to

        21       try to help them in every way that we can to

        22       achieve a legal status.

        23                  But by perpetuating this myth that

        24       when you come here illegally it's okay, come

        25       here but you're going to have to take the



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         1       lowest-paid wages, you're going to not be able

         2       to get health benefits, you're going to not be

         3       able to go to the courts, you're in a constant

         4       state of movement, you can't get a mortgage

         5       because you couldn't qualify with a background

         6       check, you can't do anything that everybody

         7       else who has legal status can do, we're

         8       perpetuating a myth.

         9                  We're also creating a group of

        10       people, as I said before, who will be and can

        11       be exploited by a group of unscrupulous

        12       employers who want them permanently to be in

        13       an underpaid underclass.  That is not my idea

        14       of the American dream.  And that shouldn't be

        15       perpetuated in this country.

        16                  We should seek to help anyone who

        17       wants to come here legally to obtain a legal

        18       status.  I have no problem with that.  It's

        19       this somehow idealizing that I hear from the

        20       other side about this group of people who have

        21       come here and somehow they're going to elevate

        22       themselves up.  It's not going to happen,

        23       because the law is going to stop them.

        24       They're going to run into that wall.  They are

        25       illegal.  And when that's discovered, they



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         1       have a problem.

         2                  So let's address the problem.

         3       Identify.  This bill should be passed.  It's a

         4       step to identify.  This bill will bring them

         5       in.  This bill gives them the right to make

         6       the applications.  This bill gives them the

         7       right to go through a process.  But if you

         8       don't bring them in, you're perpetually

         9       keeping them under the thumb of people who

        10       would exploit them for their own bad ends.

        11       And that's not a good thing.

        12                  So let's deal with their illegal

        13       status first.  Let's make them legal.  Let's

        14       help people who want to become American

        15       citizens and achieve the American dream get

        16       their wish.  Let's do it legally.  Everybody's

        17       welcome to our shores through the front door,

        18       not the back door.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        20       you, Senator Marcellino.

        21                  Senator Parker.

        22                  SENATOR PARKER:    Yes, Madam

        23       President, on the bill.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    On the

        25       bill.



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         1                  SENATOR PARKER:    I rise again to

         2       address a couple of things that I think we

         3       really don't understand here, because I'm

         4       hearing a lot of inaccuracies.

         5                  And first, let me apologize to

         6       Senator Padavan if I have in any way

         7       disparaged your name or your reputation to

         8       make people think that you are anti-immigrant.

         9       If my comments have offended you, I do

        10       apologize.

        11                  However, if I see bills that come

        12       up that the New York Immigration Coalition,

        13       that groups like the Community Action Project

        14       in my district and other immigration

        15       organizations are coming up and they're

        16       saying, time after time, that this bill by

        17       Senator Padavan, this bill by Senator Padavan,

        18       this bill by Senator Padavan, this bill by

        19       Senator Padavan are problematic to their

        20       constituents, and to my constituents, I have

        21       to call them as I see them.

        22                  So I apologize if you are offended.

        23                  There's a couple of things that

        24       have been going on, and one of which is that

        25       people have been throwing around this 600,000



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         1       number of people that the DMV has found.  And

         2       people are saying that these 600,000 people

         3       all have illegal numbers and are somehow

         4       cheating the system.  That is absolutely

         5       wrong, untrue, and incorrect.

         6                  The reality is you have to

         7       understand the history.  And the history of

         8       this problem is that up until a few months

         9       ago, people in the State of New York -- the

        10       State of New York did not require people to

        11       have a Social Security number or tax ID number

        12       in order to have a driver's license.

        13                  A few months ago, arbitrarily, the

        14       Commissioner of the Department of

        15       Transportation started to require this.  They

        16       sent out letters and they identified in their

        17       database a large number of people who were

        18       either missing Social Security or tax ID

        19       numbers, or there was some incongruence in

        20       terms of those numbers sometimes being held by

        21       several people.

        22                  Yeah, there's fraud in it.  But you

        23       show me one system, not just in this state or

        24       this country, but show me one system that

        25       doesn't have some level of fraud.  And I think



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         1       we should deal with the fraud and we should

         2       root that out.  But if we're going to start

         3       dealing with fraud, let's talk about the

         4       Empire Zone program.  Let's begin, let's begin

         5       with large numbers of --

         6                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Will he yield.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         8       you.

         9                  Senator Padavan requests that you

        10       yield.

        11                  SENATOR PARKER:    I will not yield

        12       now.  I'll finish my statement, and I'll be

        13       happy to yield to the Senator after I'm done

        14       with my comments.

        15                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    I'll wait.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        17       you.

        18                  SENATOR PARKER:    So you have, you

        19       know, fraud in almost any program.  And if

        20       we're going to start looking at fraud, let's

        21       look at fraud that in fact costs the taxpayers

        22       of the State of New York literally hundreds of

        23       millions of dollars every year, if we're going

        24       to start talking about fraud.

        25                  The reality is people now need



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         1       driver's licenses to conduct work, to get to

         2       work.  And I was glad to hear from Senator

         3       Morahan about his upbringing.  And I'm not

         4       sure how old Senator Morahan is, or how old

         5       his parents are, but the world has changed

         6       significantly in terms of what people need in

         7       terms of cars.  You know?

         8                  And again, without me trying to

         9       just speculate a time frame, you know, the

        10       amount of cars on the streets, the amount of

        11       taxis on the streets, the amount of trucks on

        12       the streets, the amount of the need for

        13       transportation has increased substantially

        14       over the last 50 or 60 years, let alone the

        15       last hundred years.  And so, you know, the

        16       needs for immigrants to have driver's licenses

        17       is really at a premium.

        18                  I think what we, you know, continue

        19       to do -- because I've heard a couple of people

        20       say this bill is an answer.  I really am

        21       serious about the fact that I think we need to

        22       have more dialogue about what the solution is

        23       on this bill, because certainly this bill does

        24       not deal with security issues.  This bill,

        25       despite what everybody is saying, does not



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         1       give people who are out of status, it does not

         2       give out of status an opportunity to become in

         3       status.  It just simply doesn't do it.

         4                  First of all, the state is not in

         5       charge of that.  So how does the State

         6       Legislature supersede the federal government

         7       as it relates to immigration when that's a

         8       federal issue?  So we couldn't do it if we

         9       wanted to do it.  I wish we could.  You know,

        10       I wish we could do it; then maybe we could get

        11       some conversation.  But the reality is that

        12       this bill does not help people who are out of

        13       status.

        14                  And lastly, I would love to work

        15       with some colleagues, I don't care on what

        16       side of the aisle, on a bill that really puts

        17       some significant funding into a treatment for

        18       xenophobia.  Because I really think that

        19       there's an outbreak that's affecting the

        20       Legislature in particular, and maybe some of

        21       the people around the country.  And so, you

        22       know, I hope to do that.

        23                  And I will yield if Senator Padavan

        24       has a question.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Senator



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         1       Padavan.

         2                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Senator Parker,

         3       I just want to be sure I heard you correctly.

         4       Did you indicate a moment ago that the

         5       requirement of a Social Security number on

         6       your application for a driver's license is not

         7       as I've stated it to be?

         8                  What did you say?  I'm not sure.

         9                  SENATOR PARKER:    I did say that.

        10       And let me explain, because that deserves some

        11       explanation.

        12                  On the form they did ask for it.

        13       So when we understand the idea of policy,

        14       policy can be two things.  In government,

        15       policy can be what we actually write.  The law

        16       of the State of New York, regulations from an

        17       agency is policy.  But what an agency actually

        18       does is also policy.

        19                  So, yes, it was on the books.  It

        20       was something that they asked for.  But it was

        21       not something that they ever enforced.  Up

        22       until about 18 months ago, the requirement for

        23       a Social Security number or a tax ID number

        24       was never enforced.  And so, by policy, it

        25       wasn't required.



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         1                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Well, Senator,

         2       then let me share with you.  You've seen, I'm

         3       sure, the application for a driver's license.

         4       And that section dealing with Social Security

         5       number is very clear, along with all the other

         6       basic requirements, including your sex,

         7       height, eye color, and so on.  This is an

         8       official department document, by regulation,

         9       authorized by law.

        10                  Now, whether or not in years back,

        11       whatever the time may be, they didn't check

        12       everybody as carefully as they're now doing or

        13       attempting to do, does that make this

        14       requirement any less lawful?

        15                  SENATOR PARKER:    Yes.

        16                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    In what way?

        17                  SENATOR PARKER:    Because it

        18       wasn't the policy.  You weren't enforcing it.

        19                  For instance, you know, people in

        20       New York City -- in your district, I'm sure,

        21       as in my district -- people jaywalk all the

        22       time.  It is illegal?  Yes, it's illegal.  But

        23       how many people are getting stopped for

        24       jaywalking?  Except on Queens Boulevard.  But

        25       other than that, where are people getting



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         1       stopped for jaywalking in the City of

         2       New York?

         3                  Policy is both what is written in

         4       law, as I've indicated -- I'm not disagreeing

         5       with that -- but policy also is what people

         6       do.  And all the time, in courts across the

         7       country, policies that are written down are

         8       overturned by what has been the practice and

         9       then the real policy of our agencies and our

        10       government.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        12       you.

        13                  Senator Padavan.

        14                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Then you've

        15       answered my question.  And I'll ask you, if

        16       you have not -- but I believe you have -- it

        17       is regulation established by law, meaning that

        18       the State Department of Motor Vehicles not

        19       only has the authority but the responsibility

        20       to see that their applications are valid, that

        21       they're not fraudulently applied for -- a

        22       license, that is -- that someone hasn't lied

        23       on this application.

        24                  You would agree with that?

        25                  SENATOR PARKER:    Yes, absolutely.



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         1                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Thank you.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         3       you.

         4                  Senator Serrano.

         5                  SENATOR SERRANO:    Thank you,

         6       Madam President.  On the bill.

         7                  One thing that I'm very concerned

         8       about that I keep hearing from the other side

         9       is how immigration back at the turn of the

        10       century was done in a way and that those

        11       should follow it now.

        12                  But I think it should be pointed

        13       out that immigration now is much stricter than

        14       it was back then.  It's far more difficult for

        15       new immigrants to get the necessary

        16       documentation that they need to come to this

        17       country because of the quotas.  And since

        18       9/11, the federal government has used that as

        19       a further excuse to curtail new immigration.

        20       And I think it's wrong.  I think it's very

        21       dehumanizing.

        22                  And another thing that I find

        23       equally distressing is that on the other side,

        24       whenever the discussion of immigration comes

        25       up, it is immediately linked with terrorism.



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         1       This link between immigration and terrorism is

         2       something that we really have to look at,

         3       because we are failing to understand that the

         4       vast majority of immigrants are here for a

         5       better life for themselves and for their

         6       families for generations to come.  And some

         7       are so desperate to be in this great nation

         8       that they risk their lives every day coming

         9       here.

        10                  Now, the last time I checked,

        11       Timothy McVeigh was an American and was not an

        12       illegal immigrant, yet he committed one of the

        13       most horrific crimes on American soil.  So if

        14       we want to talk about terrorism, let's talk

        15       about terrorism.  Let's talk about curtailing

        16       the activities of those here and abroad who

        17       want to hurt American citizens.  But let's

        18       stop linking the immigrants to terrorism.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Senator

        20       Padavan.

        21                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Will you yield

        22       for a question, Senator.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Senator

        24       Serrano, do you yield?

        25                  SENATOR SERRANO:    Yes.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         2       you.  Senator Serrano yields.

         3                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yesterday we

         4       passed a bill in this house dealing with

         5       immigrants who were being abused, enslaved,

         6       turned into prostitutes, into bondage.  Did

         7       you vote for that bill?

         8                  SENATOR SERRANO:    I did, yes.

         9                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes, you did,

        10       because everybody voted for it.  It passed

        11       unanimously.

        12                  SENATOR SERRANO:    Yes.

        13                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Now, who do you

        14       think is perpetrating those crimes?  The

        15       illegal immigrants.  And who are they hurting?

        16       Immigrants.

        17                  So we talk about these issues of

        18       fraud, matters of this sort, we're not only

        19       talking about people who are not in that

        20       category, the victims are immigrants.

        21                  Last year we passed a bill dealing

        22       with individuals who hold themselves out to be

        23       what are called notarios, charging $20,000,

        24       $30,000 for a green card.  Which passed, I

        25       believe, unanimously.  Who were the victims?



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         1       They were immigrants.  Who were the

         2       perpetrators?  Immigrants.

         3                  So the point of the matter is when

         4       we deal with these issues, we're talking about

         5       our society in general, not just those

         6       individuals who came to this country

         7       illegally.  In the City of New York,

         8       invariably, the people who are victims of

         9       crime are people who are foreign-born.  And we

        10       have to protect them as we protect everyone

        11       else.  Would you agree?

        12                  SENATOR SERRANO:    Yes, Senator.

        13                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Thank you.

        14                  SENATOR SERRANO:    If I may, Madam

        15       President, to continue on the bill.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        17       you.  On the bill.

        18                  SENATOR SERRANO:    I think,

        19       Senator Padavan, you've brought up a very good

        20       issue, although I don't think it's entirely

        21       germane to my point.

        22                  My point being that since 9/11,

        23       every discussion about immigration has been

        24       linked to terrorism.  And I think that that is

        25       extremely unfair, and I think it's wrong.  The



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         1       bottom line is that the reason why this nation

         2       is so great is because of immigrants, because

         3       of the immigrants who have come here to build

         4       a better today and a better tomorrow.

         5                  And when we continually send the

         6       wrong message to new immigrants, we are

         7       betraying the founding principles of this

         8       nation.

         9                  Thank you, Madam President.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        11       you, Senator.

        12                  Senator LaValle.

        13                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Thank you,

        14       Madam President.  I'd like to speak on the

        15       bill.  But before I do, I'd like to ask the

        16       sponsor one question.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        18       you.

        19                  Does the sponsor yield?

        20                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes.

        21                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Senator, before

        22       I make my remarks, I just want to make

        23       absolutely sure that I understand what the

        24       issue is here, because we've gone kind of far

        25       afield.



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         1                  The federal government has passed

         2       an act that requires the states within a

         3       three-year period of time to pass state

         4       legislation or else there are some

         5       consequences for the citizens of our state.

         6       Am I understanding this correctly?

         7                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    That's correct.

         8                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Thank you very

         9       much.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        11       you.

        12                  Senator LaValle, on the bill.

        13                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Madam

        14       President, on the bill.

        15                  Just recently, and I think it --

        16       the debate kind of echoes our Congressman, in

        17       a discussion I had, who said that the

        18       number-one issue that he was facing in town

        19       meetings that he had was over immigration

        20       policy.

        21                  And we're seeing that frustration.

        22       And of course, as has been mentioned, the

        23       president and Congress have to enact a policy

        24       that has some fairness to it and also allows

        25       for the economic viability to continue in this



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         1       country.  And the debate has mentioned this.

         2                  I wanted to rise because, as many

         3       of the speakers, my grandparents came to this

         4       country with, as all other immigrants, with

         5       only those goods that they could carry with

         6       them from Italy.  And I can feel in this

         7       debate the same kind of feelings that my

         8       grandparents had whenever we talked about the

         9       government.  Whenever the government was

        10       involved, they would get very nervous, very

        11       circumspect.

        12                  And yet my grandmother worked in a

        13       situation as a seamstress and I remember, as a

        14       very young child, going to where my

        15       grandmother worked and seeing literally rows

        16       and rows and rows of sewing machines in a

        17       situation where they were all jammed together.

        18       No air-conditioning.  I don't think -- I think

        19       they had to ask permission to go to the

        20       bathroom.  And very little time to eat.

        21                  I saw -- my grandfather had a

        22       poultry farm, and whenever the county agent

        23       came, my grandfather was always nervous

        24       because he came from Italy and spoke broken

        25       English.  But he wanted to make sure that all



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         1       the laws were complied with, because he was

         2       afraid that because he came from the other

         3       side, even though he became a citizen, that

         4       the government would point their finger at

         5       him.

         6                  That was, as was pointed out, a

         7       different period of time, because they came in

         8       to this country through Ellis Island, as did

         9       probably many of the people, many of us here

        10       in this chamber, our families.  Today is a

        11       little different.

        12                  But you cannot turn your back on

        13       what happened on 9/11.  And so with this

        14       legislation, we are part of the federalist

        15       system, we are complying with what the federal

        16       government has asked us to do.

        17                  And I looked through a form that

        18       Senator Padavan had from the National

        19       Conference of State Legislatures, and I don't

        20       see on here much of an opportunity -- and we

        21       can hold all of the hearings we want.  The

        22       federal government is asking us to do very

        23       specific and precise things within a very

        24       specific period of time, with sanctions if we

        25       do not do that.  So that's why I asked the



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         1       sponsor for confirmation of that, that I was

         2       reading that correctly.

         3                  And so we can, for different

         4       reasons, find that immigration policy is tough

         5       and that, yes, we have a lot of people working

         6       in many, many different industries that are

         7       doing jobs that United States citizens

         8       seemingly don't want and what happens if they

         9       have to return back to their countries.

        10                  So it is very complex.  But that's

        11       not the issue before us.  The issue is to get

        12       our state in compliance with federal law.

        13                  Thank you, Madam President.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        15       you, Senator LaValle.

        16                  Senator Sabini.

        17                  SENATOR SABINI:    Thank you, Madam

        18       President.  On the bill.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    On the

        20       bill.

        21                  SENATOR SABINI:    Two things sort

        22       of struck me during the debate here.

        23                  One is that there's a pretty broad

        24       gap between what the DMV sought to do by

        25       checking Social Security numbers and what the



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         1       federal law seeks to do, which is to prove

         2       legal status.

         3                  Now, the Social Security Act, which

         4       was brought into our country under the

         5       administration of Franklin Delano Roosevelt,

         6       who served in this room, the Social Security

         7       Act says that you can't use the Social

         8       Security number you're given as an ID number,

         9       nor can it be required of you to be your ID

        10       number by anyone.  By anyone.  That's on your

        11       original Social Security documents you got

        12       when you first applied.

        13                  And that has been part of suits

        14       across the country on this that make it a

        15       taxpayer ID number, use some other form of

        16       documentation.  But what DMV did in running

        17       these numbers has now been halted by a court.

        18                  Another thing that strikes me as a

        19       little funny is that -- and I don't want to

        20       tell people there's no Santa Claus or the

        21       Easter Bunny, but we were voting on a budget

        22       here on March 31st, and in that budget there

        23       was a reduction in the budget line of DMV for

        24       doing that.  You all voted on that.  You all

        25       voted yes on that.



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         1                  That was as a result of very hard

         2       work by Assemblyman Reuben Diaz, for telling

         3       DMV if you're going to do something that we

         4       all agree isn't supposed to be done, we're not

         5       going to let -- we're going to smack your

         6       budget for it a little bit.

         7                  So we've already voted that this

         8       was a bad policy.  A court's already ruled

         9       it's a bad policy.  And the Social Security --

        10       the original Social Security Act says we don't

        11       want a federal ID.  Now, maybe we need one

        12       now.  But it shouldn't be your Social Security

        13       number.  And there are moves to have one now.

        14       Smart ID, Smart Card, I've heard all these

        15       different terms.  And that may be what comes

        16       down the pike.

        17                  But what we're dealing with today I

        18       don't think is workable for the people that we

        19       have now in our state performing jobs that

        20       keep our economy going.

        21                  And I don't cast any aspersions on

        22       anyone's motivation on this.  I want a secure

        23       country as well.  I wish the federal

        24       government wanted to secure our borders as

        25       much as I do, because I agree that our borders



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         1       aren't secure.

         2                  We wouldn't be allowed admission to

         3       the United Nations today, under the United

         4       Nations rules on admissions, because we don't

         5       have secure borders.  That's a number-one rule

         6       for admission to the U.N., to have safe and

         7       secure and definable borders.  We don't.  I

         8       admit that.  But that's the federal

         9       government's fault.

        10                  What this bill deals with is not

        11       our borders, and in some ways it doesn't even

        12       deal with our security.  It deals with our

        13       citizenship and our populace -- not just legal

        14       citizens, but people living in our state right

        15       now and whether or not they can continue to

        16       pursue their livelihoods.

        17                  So maybe not for some of the

        18       reasons others have talked about, but I think

        19       we've already made our position clear on this

        20       by voting for the budget and reducing the DMV

        21       budget by an amount certain that covered the

        22       amount that they used to do this action, which

        23       has been halted by the court.

        24                  So I'm going to be voting in the

        25       negative.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         2       you.

         3                  Senator Schneiderman.

         4                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

         5       Madam President -- oh, Senator Oppenheimer.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Senator

         7       Oppenheimer.

         8                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Thank you.

         9       Just briefly.

        10                  I'll be voting against this bill

        11       for a very pragmatic reason.  We had a meeting

        12       in my village, in one of our churches, where

        13       about 250 of our immigrants in our village

        14       came, and they clearly were saying that they

        15       will continue to go to their jobs.  They all

        16       have jobs, and they will not give up their

        17       jobs and the income that comes from those jobs

        18       even though they will be deprived, very

        19       possibly, of their driver's license.

        20                  So I feel that my safety is

        21       somewhat questioned when we have drivers

        22       driving without licenses but feel that they

        23       must continue their commitment to their jobs

        24       and to the money which their jobs bring for

        25       their families.  So we will have a lot of



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         1       drivers who will be driving without licenses,

         2       and I think that is something that's very

         3       fearful.

         4                  So I'll be voting no.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         6       you, Senator.

         7                  Senator Schneiderman.

         8                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

         9       Madam President.

        10                  I think that we're here -- this has

        11       been a very interesting debate, and I would

        12       urge my colleagues, even those who may be

        13       getting a little impatient, that there are few

        14       issues that we will be addressing that are

        15       more pressing and that are more vital to the

        16       future of our state than issues related to

        17       immigration in the years ahead of us.

        18                  So we should get used to this, and

        19       we should focus in on it, and we should get

        20       the perspective that we need to deal with this

        21       issue.  Because we have never, in the great

        22       City of New York, had more immigrants than we

        23       have now.  The city is doing well because of

        24       them.  Many of them are undocumented.  But

        25       we're going to have to deal with the reality



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         1       here.

         2                  I think there are two fallacies

         3       that we're confronting in this particular

         4       debate.  The first fallacy is that we need to

         5       pass this bill now.  We do not need to ever

         6       pass this bill to comply with the federal act.

         7       There are other options.

         8                  Second, we certainly don't need to

         9       pass any bill now.  We have some more time.

        10       And as Senator Balboni observed, which may

        11       have been the most prescient observation in

        12       this entire debate, quote, We need to talk

        13       more about this, close quote.  And I realize a

        14       lot of you can make jokes about Senator

        15       Balboni's propensity to loquaciousness, but in

        16       this case I think he's absolutely right.  We

        17       do not need to pass this bill ever.  There are

        18       other options.  And we certainly don't need to

        19       pass anything now.

        20                  Other states -- most of the

        21       arguments that have been raised here related

        22       to the uses of driver's licenses for purposes

        23       other than operating a motor vehicle.  That's

        24       exactly what some other states are looking at,

        25       systems for delinking the motor vehicle



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         1       requirements in licenses from anything to do

         2       with immigration status.  We should be looking

         3       at that.

         4                  We need to talk more about this

         5       before we pass a bill that has negative

         6       unintended consequences that quite honestly, I

         7       think, really fly off the page.  I think

         8       Senator Diaz read from it, I read from it.

         9       It's pretty obvious that there are going to be

        10       some severe negative consequences from this

        11       particular bill.

        12                  So fallacy one, we don't have to

        13       pass this bill ever in its present form.

        14       There are other options.  And we certainly

        15       don't need to pass it now.  We should talk

        16       more about this.

        17                  Fallacy two -- and this is the more

        18       fundamental issue which I think we're going to

        19       be grappling with in the years ahead -- not

        20       all the people who are here without documents

        21       are people who are, quote, up to no good.  The

        22       vast majority of the undocumented immigrants

        23       who are working in this country and living in

        24       this country are in fact people who are up to

        25       a great deal of good.  They're supporting



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         1       their families, they've come here in many

         2       cases because they are fleeing from severe

         3       oppression or poverty in other places.

         4                  And I would urge that whatever

         5       steps we take to get rid of the myth that

         6       Senator Marcellino referred to, they are going

         7       to continue to come, because there are places

         8       in the world that are a lot worse than any

         9       situation an immigrant will find here.

        10                  And most of these people are here

        11       trying to do something better for themselves

        12       and their families.  And while most people

        13       here's families came legally to this country,

        14       there are members of this legislature I know

        15       whose families came here unlawfully.  I know

        16       members of this legislature who themselves

        17       came here without papers.  And they are making

        18       a contribution.

        19                  The laws change.  And I

        20       respectfully submit that whether we like it or

        21       not, the laws at the federal level will change

        22       to deal with the fact that we have tens of

        23       millions of people here unlawfully and we're

        24       not going to get rid of them through a system

        25       of oppression and deportation.



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         1                  So, ladies and gentlemen, those two

         2       fallacies I think compel us to vote against

         3       this bill.  Let's not conflate undocumented

         4       immigrants with people up to no good.  Let's

         5       deal with the reality.

         6                  As Senator Parker pointed out,

         7       there is law up in the ivory tower and there

         8       is law on the ground.  And there's no one

         9       who's ever worked in law enforcement who will

        10       not tell you that you make a judgment call

        11       every day:  I'm going to pull that car over

        12       with a broken taillight, I'm going to let that

        13       one go.  These are judgment calls.

        14                  The law will change at the federal

        15       level, and the law is changing on the ground

        16       now because the law enforcement authorities

        17       know they cannot enforce this broken system of

        18       federal laws regarding the millions of people

        19       who are living here, trying to support their

        20       families, who the law makes the subjects of

        21       the oppression that I think Senator Marcellino

        22       rightly referred to.

        23                  But don't misunderstand this.  This

        24       bill, if we pass it, will not just have an

        25       effect on people who are here without papers.



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         1       Legal immigrants are terrified of going into

         2       government offices now, because what if they

         3       make a mistake, as happens often.  Senator

         4       Diaz spoke about people supporting their

         5       families.  You can't afford to be locked up

         6       wrongfully for a few weeks and then get out:

         7       Oh, we made a mistake.

         8                  We have immigrants who are afraid

         9       to report things to the police, legal

        10       immigrants, because they're concerned about

        11       that kind of an inquiry, afraid to go to a

        12       hospital when they are seeking medical care.

        13                  This is a crisis that will not be

        14       dealt with by pretending that the law is the

        15       law and it's going to be enforced.  And I

        16       think we should get on to the real debate that

        17       Senator Parker encouraged us to.

        18                  But this bill we do not need to

        19       pass now, we do not need to pass in its

        20       current form.  Let's talk about delinkage of

        21       immigrant status and driver's licenses.  Let's

        22       keep the system of driver's licenses working

        23       to keep us all safe on the roads and not drive

        24       people away and create more hit-and-run

        25       accidents where people have to run because



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         1       they aren't allowed to get driver's licenses.

         2                  And let's take Senator Balboni's

         3       words to heart.  We need to talk more about

         4       this.  I assure you, we will be talking more

         5       about this.

         6                  And, Senator Diaz, this is not an

         7       exercise in futility, because often we see

         8       bills that are one-house bills and because of

         9       the debate that takes place, sometimes the

        10       next year the bill's a little different and

        11       sometimes the Assembly moves things in another

        12       direction.

        13                  So I commend all my colleagues on

        14       both sides of the aisle for this debate.  I

        15       encourage us to vote no, and let's get down to

        16       the real work of coping with a great state

        17       made greater by the presence of immigrants,

        18       legal and illegal, who need the law to address

        19       their real needs.

        20                  Thank you, Madam President.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        22       you.

        23                  Is there any other Senator wishing

        24       to be heard?

        25                  The debate is closed.



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         1                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

         2                  Read the last section.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect on the 180th day.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

         6       the roll.

         7                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Senator

         9       Padavan, to explain his vote.

        10                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Very briefly,

        11       Madam President.

        12                  I just wanted to take this moment

        13       to respond to a couple of statements made by

        14       Senator Schneiderman.

        15                  He said we don't have to ever pass

        16       this kind of legislation, now or in the

        17       future.  I presume that's what he meant.  I

        18       would refer him to the Real ID Act of 2005

        19       enacted by the Congress of the United States

        20       and signed into law on May 11th this year.  In

        21       page after page, it states "a state shall," "a

        22       state shall," "a state shall."  And it lists

        23       all the things that we are required to do.

        24                  It's not "may," it says "shall."

        25       We will.  So that statement that this is



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         1       something we will not have to do ever is

         2       totally false.

         3                  The second issue I would agree with

         4       him on.  The overwhelming majority of

         5       immigrants in this country who live in my

         6       district, and in yours, are here for good

         7       purposes -- to raise a family, the American

         8       dream, and everything that goes with it.  But

         9       as we learned, sadly, while there were

        10       hundreds of immigrants in the World Trade

        11       Center on that day, it only took a handful to

        12       dispose of them.  They were the victims.  It

        13       only takes a small number to cause great harm

        14       and tragedy to a large population.  And that's

        15       what this is all about.

        16                  I vote aye.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        18       you.

        19                  Senator Padavan will be recorded in

        20       the affirmative.

        21                  Senator Diaz, to explain his vote.

        22                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Thank you, Madam

        23       President.

        24                  Just when all of you vote, those of

        25       you that are going to vote in favor of this



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         1       bill, when you vote in favor of this bill you

         2       are voting not only to stop issuing driver's

         3       licenses, you are voting to authorize the

         4       Department of Transportation to report anybody

         5       that doesn't have the right papers.

         6                  So today you're voting to authorize

         7       or to make the Department of Transportation a

         8       branch of the immigration department.

         9       Tomorrow, which one will be next -- the

        10       Department of Education?  Department of

        11       Health?  Which department will be next?

        12                  Today this piece of legislation not

        13       only stops issuing licenses, you're also

        14       authorizing the Department of Transportation

        15       to report people under suspicion.  So I'm

        16       telling you, be careful what you're doing.

        17       This is the wrong way to do it.  This is the

        18       wrong message.  And I'm voting no.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        20       you.

        21                  Senator Diaz will be recorded in

        22       the negative.

        23                  Senator Schneiderman.

        24                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Yes, Madam

        25       President, just very briefly to explain my



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         1       vote.

         2                  Just to set the record clear, and

         3       I'm sure we will have many opportunities to

         4       discuss these issues, I didn't say we don't

         5       have to pass a bill to comply with the federal

         6       law, I said we don't have to pass this precise

         7       bill.  Other states are looking at other

         8       options.

         9                  And again, I think Senator

        10       Balboni's words are right.  We should take

        11       more time to talk about this.  We can do

        12       better than this.  We can come up with a

        13       better proposal.  I didn't mean, as Senator

        14       Padavan suggests, we don't have to pass

        15       something.  But we don't have to pass this

        16       specific bill, and we do have more time to

        17       work on it.

        18                  I will be voting no.

        19                  Thank you, Madam President.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Senator

        21       Schneiderman will be recorded in the negative.

        22                  Senator Balboni, to explain his

        23       vote.

        24                  SENATOR BALBONI:    Madam

        25       President, I would compliment the members of



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         1       this chamber for taking on this issue.  This

         2       is an issue that many people are very

         3       reluctant to discuss because it goes to the

         4       very heart, as I said before, of the dynamic

         5       tensions in our society.

         6                  And many of the things we talk

         7       about here, perhaps people sit there and say,

         8       Well, we don't have much of an impact.

         9       Whether we talk about border security -- I

        10       mean, what is the State of New York talking

        11       about border security for?  We're only a

        12       state.

        13                  Well, ask any of the

        14       representatives who border Canada and realize,

        15       please, ladies and gentlemen, that probably

        16       one of the greatest threats we have to our

        17       security is the immigration policy not of this

        18       state or this nation, but of Canada.  It

        19       allows someone to come in, anyone, and to have

        20       a declaration of political asylum without

        21       checking who they are.  And now they are a

        22       Canadian citizen, and as a Canadian citizen

        23       they are allowed to come across our border at

        24       any time.

        25                  This issue today is more about



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         1       security and driver safety.  Because when you

         2       have a driver's license, statistics show you

         3       are a better driver.  And there is an eerie

         4       correlation between unlicensed drivers and

         5       fatalities.

         6                  It's also about information

         7       security and all the things we've talked about

         8       in terms of hijacking our personal

         9       information.  If you don't have a secure

        10       driver's license system, you're much more

        11       vulnerable as a society to someone coming in

        12       and hacking your personal ID.

        13                  But today what we've done is

        14       something that the other house isn't doing.

        15       We're at least talking about this.  And as

        16       many questions as are present in this

        17       particular debate, at least the debate is

        18       occurring.

        19                  I don't like the way this system

        20       was handled, this bill was handled at the

        21       federal level.  I've said that.  And I think

        22       it's going to lead to great consternation.

        23       But as with all things we do in this

        24       government, it is a balance.  It is a balance

        25       between the needs of the many -- and there are



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         1       18 million people in this state that we should

         2       be concerned about, 18 million.  And I

         3       understand and recognize that if this policy

         4       were to be adopted today in this particular

         5       form by this Department of Motor Vehicles,

         6       then you would have had 300,000 people who

         7       would then be put in jeopardy in terms of

         8       staying in this country.

         9                  But, ladies and gentlemen, are we

        10       going continue to walk past the cemetery?  Are

        11       we going to continue to ignore this issue and

        12       sit back and say that as a free nation we'll

        13       let anybody in, no matter what they are, and

        14       not have them do the basic responsibility of

        15       trying to become a citizen and enable them to

        16       do?  That the answer is no, we can't do that.

        17                  Madam President, I'm going to vote

        18       for the bill, with the hope that we get this

        19       right.

        20                  And I would also like to encourage

        21       Senator Parker, I know you.  You're sincere

        22       about your efforts to try to make an impact in

        23       the federal government.  Let's do it.  Let's

        24       put a letter together, talk about border

        25       security in this state as it affects this



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         1       nation.

         2                  Thank you, Madam President.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         4       you.

         5                  Senator Balboni will be recorded in

         6       the affirmative.

         7                  Senator Hassell-Thompson, to

         8       explain her vote.

         9                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

        10       you, Madam President.  Just briefly.

        11                  In the 36th Senatorial District --

        12       I heard one of my colleagues talk about the

        13       fact that they have one of the most diverse

        14       communities in this country, and I would say

        15       to you that it must mirror mine very

        16       distinctly, because there are over 96

        17       different languages spoken every day,

        18       particularly just in the Mount Vernon portion

        19       of that district alone.

        20                  But in the Bronx, our district is

        21       made up of people from Nigeria, from Ghana,

        22       from every country island within the

        23       Caribbean, some from the Mediterranean, and

        24       certainly from South and Latin America.

        25                  My office is -- does not have



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         1       jurisdictional responsibility for immigration,

         2       and yet my staff spends almost a third of its

         3       time working with people around issues of

         4       immigration.  And very few to none of them

         5       would be those who are not interested in

         6       becoming citizens in this country.

         7                  Many of them come to us because

         8       they've been here and their papers have been

         9       in for more than five years.  Being processed

        10       is a major, major issue.  And it isn't because

        11       they've done anything wrong or they've broken

        12       the law or anything, it's just that we

        13       continue to cut back in the federal

        14       government, as well as in state government,

        15       and we cut back in the places where it hurts

        16       those that can afford it the least.

        17                  And so when we spend an inordinate

        18       amount of time helping people to process

        19       paper, and to have us sit here in the state

        20       Senate and create further barriers to that, it

        21       makes me very, very uncomfortable.

        22                  I, like Senator Balboni, sit on the

        23       Veterans, Homeland Security and Military

        24       Affairs Committee and have worked with him

        25       very conscientiously for over a year on the



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         1       Homeland Security Committee for the State

         2       Senate.  And both of us are very aware of some

         3       of the dangers, certainly, that Senator

         4       Padavan talks about.

         5                  But I don't want us to rush to

         6       judgment.  I don't want us to rush and do

         7       something because we have to without giving

         8       the right thought to the process.  And

         9       therefore I will vote no on this bill, but

        10       also will volunteer to work with Senators

        11       Balboni, Padavan and Parker to put together

        12       language for a bill, as well as a letter to

        13       our federal government asking them to move on

        14       it in a better process.

        15                  And so for that reason, I will be

        16       voting no at this time on this particular

        17       bill.

        18                  Thank you, Madam President.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        20       you.

        21                  Senator Hassell-Thompson will be

        22       recorded in the negative.

        23                  The Secretary will announce the

        24       results.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in



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         1       the negative on Calendar Number 1356 are

         2       Senators Connor, Diaz, Dilan, Duane, Gonzalez,

         3       Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, C. Kruger,

         4       Montgomery, Oppenheimer, Parker, Paterson,

         5       Sabini, Savino, Schneiderman, Serrano,

         6       A. Smith, M. Smith and Stavisky.

         7                  Those Senators absent from voting:

         8       Bonacic, Sampson and Volker.

         9                  Ayes, 38.  Nays, 19.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        11       bill is passed.

        12                  The Secretary will read.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        14       1428, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 5532A,

        15       an act to amend the Penal Law.

        16                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:

        17       Explanation.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        19       you.

        20                  Senator Wright for an explanation,

        21       please.

        22                  SENATOR WRIGHT:    Thank you, Madam

        23       President.

        24                  The bill amends the Penal Law in

        25       relation to making persons 14 and 15 years of



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         1       age criminally responsible for acts

         2       constituting cemetery desecration in the first

         3       degree.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         5       you.

         6                  Senator Krueger.

         7                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Will the

         8       sponsor please yield for a question.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        10       you.

        11                  Senator Wright, do you yield?

        12                  SENATOR WRIGHT:    I will.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        14       you.

        15                  The Senator yields.

        16                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        17                  What is the penalty for cemetery

        18       desecration in the first degree under criminal

        19       law?

        20                  SENATOR WRIGHT:    Currently it is

        21       1 1/3 to 4 years.

        22                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        23       Madam President.  On the bill.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        25       you.



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         1                  Senator Krueger on the bill.

         2                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         3                  Without needing to explain why, of

         4       course, I strongly disapprove of anyone

         5       desecrating a cemetery, I do believe that

         6       passing a law that could potentially mean 14-

         7       and 15-year-olds who do wrong, no argument

         8       there, go to jail under an E felony for up to

         9       4 years is too extreme a penalty and too big a

        10       leap to make in our criminal code.

        11                  So on the argument that we

        12       shouldn't be sending 14- and 15-year-olds to

        13       jail for up to 4 years -- even if there's no

        14       question that there should be penalties for

        15       desecrating cemeteries, and none of us would

        16       ever imagine supporting such a horrendous act

        17       by people of any age, but I do think that this

        18       is going too far and cannot support E felonies

        19       for 14- and 15-year-olds, with jail time.

        20                  Thank you, Madam President.  I'll

        21       be voting no and hope my colleagues will join

        22       me.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        24       you.

        25                  Is there any other Senator who



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         1       wishes to speak on the bill?

         2                  The debate is closed.

         3                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

         4                  Read the last section.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         6       act shall take effect on the first of

         7       November.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

         9       the roll.

        10                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Senator

        12       Montgomery, to explain her vote.

        13                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, thank

        14       you, Madam President.

        15                  I am voting no on this legislation.

        16       I just think that we could find other ways to

        17       deal with teenagers who are 14 and 15 --

        18       they're practically preteens, for goodness'

        19       sake.  They're youth.  Yes, they do foolish

        20       things.  They may go into a cemetery and think

        21       that they're having fun and topple over some

        22       gravestones and whatever.  But we should have

        23       some restitution for them, rather than giving

        24       them -- charging them with an E felony and

        25       making them criminals, as if they were a



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         1       threat to society.

         2                  So I'm voting no on this, and I

         3       hope my colleagues will reject this idea that

         4       we should make criminals out of 13 and 14 --

         5       or 14- and 15-year-olds who find themselves in

         6       a cemetery having fun.

         7                  Thank you.  Bye-bye.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         9       you.

        10                  Senator Montgomery will be recorded

        11       in the negative.

        12                  The Secretary will announce the

        13       results.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

        15       the negative on Calendar Number 1428 are

        16       Senators Dilan, Duane, Hassell-Thompson,

        17       L. Krueger, Montgomery, Oppenheimer, Paterson,

        18       and A. Smith.

        19                  Those Senators absent from voting:

        20       Bonacic, Maziarz, Sampson and Volker.

        21                  Ayes, 48.  Nays, 8.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        23       bill is passed.

        24                  The Secretary will read.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



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         1       1602, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 5620,

         2       an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Senator

         4       Krueger.

         5                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Could I ask

         6       the sponsor a question while waiving

         7       explanation?

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Yes.

         9                  Senator Padavan, do you yield for a

        10       question?

        11                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    You want an

        12       explanation, or you want to ask me a question?

        13                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    No, I was

        14       going to ask you questions without the

        15       explanation.

        16                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Okay, sure.  Go

        17       ahead.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Okay,

        19       the Senator yields.

        20                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        21       Madam President.

        22                  This bill provides a tax reduction,

        23       a property tax reduction for Class 2

        24       properties under 10 units.  And in the memo it

        25       talks about having specific advantages for



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         1       renters.  But this is all Class 2, so this

         2       would be coop, condo, and rental buildings?

         3                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Under Section

         4       1805 of the Real Property Tax Law, Category 2,

         5       that's all.  The class of occupancy.

         6       Residences under 10 units or less.

         7                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         8                  Madam President, on the bill.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        10       you.

        11                  Senator Krueger, on the bill.

        12                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        13                  Well, the bill is a dilemma for me

        14       because I recognize that it would be helpful

        15       for some residences in New York City, some

        16       owners of small buildings, some coop/condo

        17       joint owners of small buildings.  And I

        18       recognize that the City of New York --

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Senator

        20       DeFrancisco.

        21                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I would

        22       request, in view of the gentlemanly way that

        23       Senator Padavan treated you, that you would

        24       waive explanation.

        25                  (Laughter.)



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         1                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Madam

         2       President, to continue, since I've been

         3       labeled Senator No Fun, I'm afraid, Senator

         4       DeFrancisco, I have to explain a little bit

         5       about my position.  But for the record, I did

         6       skip the last bill -- the bill before that.

         7                  So the dilemma, without spending

         8       too much time explaining, is that we have some

         9       fundamental problems with the property tax

        10       system in New York City.  And I think that

        11       perhaps the sponsor would agree with me that

        12       there are serious inequities and imbalances in

        13       our tax policies for Classes 1, 2, 3, and 4.

        14                  And in fact the record shows that

        15       since 1981, when the State of New York

        16       overrode a proposal by Governor Carey that

        17       would have resolved many of the inequities in

        18       the property tax system in New York City --

        19       and in fact, it was the Senate that overrode

        20       the Governor's veto of a bill and then chose

        21       to not move forward with proposals that I

        22       think would significantly help to deal with

        23       equity in property taxes in New York City --

        24       that we have been struggling in a piecemeal

        25       way to try to deal with the problems of our



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         1       tax policy.

         2                  So that we have inequities in our

         3       assessments in the ways that we tax Class 1 to

         4       3 family homes versus Class 2 units.  Class 1

         5       units, in fact, pay disproportionately less in

         6       taxes than other property tax owners in

         7       New York City.

         8                  My problem is I wish that we were

         9       doing a full evaluation of the property tax

        10       inequities in New York City and that we were

        11       not potentially, through this Band-Aid

        12       solution for one subuniverse of Class 2

        13       properties with under 10 units -- rather than

        14       doing a Band-Aid that may help them but may

        15       increase inequity across the entire property

        16       tax system in New York City, that we were not

        17       either asking the City of New York to meet

        18       their obligations to this Legislature to

        19       propose alternatives for themselves or, as a

        20       Legislature, deal with the bigger problems.

        21                  So I will support the bill, and I

        22       appreciate Senator Padavan's desire to offer

        23       some tax relief to a certain subuniverse of

        24       property renters and owners in the City of

        25       New York.  I would argue that one more



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         1       Band-Aid solution after over 20 years of not

         2       dealing with the bigger problem will not

         3       actually result in solving the problem for our

         4       city of inequity in our property tax policies.

         5                  Thank you, Madam President.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         7       you, Senator.

         8                  Is there any other Senator wishing

         9       to be heard?

        10                  The debate is closed.

        11                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

        12                  Read the last section.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        16       the roll.

        17                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        19       Calendar Number 1602:  Ayes, 56.  Nays, 0.

        20                  Those Senators absent from voting:

        21       Senators Bonacic, Gonzalez, Sampson and

        22       Volker.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

        24       bill is passed.

        25                  The Secretary will read.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         2       1615, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 4737B,

         3       an act to amend the Public Officers Law.

         4                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Explanation.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Senator

         6       Maltese, for an explanation.

         7                  SENATOR MALTESE:    Madam

         8       President, this bill would amend the Public

         9       Officers Law to allow the hiring and continued

        10       employment by municipalities of members of the

        11       auto trades who reside in a New York county

        12       that is contiguous with the employing

        13       municipality.

        14                  The provisions allowing residence

        15       in a contiguous county are modeled after the

        16       existing provisions of the Public Officers Law

        17       allowing members of a municipal sanitation

        18       department to reside in a contiguous county.

        19       The same standards should apply to the skilled

        20       tradespersons employed in the auto trades who

        21       also find the costs of housing in certain

        22       other counties prohibitive and want the

        23       opportunity to raise their children in a less

        24       dense environment.

        25                  This bill would simply give members



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         1       of the auto trades the same opportunity as

         2       members of the sanitation department have

         3       according to the Public Officers Law.

         4                  This bill would apply to New York

         5       City automotive mechanics who are members of

         6       Local 246.  This concerns approximately 1,505

         7       members and has been done at their request.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

         9       you.

        10                  Senator Montgomery.

        11                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, thank

        12       you, Madam President.  I will just speak on

        13       this bill.

        14                  This is one of several pieces of

        15       legislation that we've debated this session,

        16       and it continues to come up.  Eventually there

        17       will be no one who will be living in the city

        18       and paying taxes as citizens of our city.

        19       They will all be living in contiguous and

        20       noncontiguous counties.

        21                  And certainly we need to have the

        22       strength of people who work in the city also

        23       living in the city.  And I note that the

        24       Senator's memo uses the excuse that, well,

        25       they can't afford housing in the city.  Well,



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         1       I don't think the housing in the city is any

         2       less affordable than housing in Westchester

         3       County and the other contiguous counties.  So

         4       I don't buy that excuse.

         5                  And certainly this particular

         6       category of civil service employees have no

         7       excuse for not living in the city, except that

         8       they choose to become suburbanites.  Which is

         9       fine.  I have no problem with that, no

        10       objections.  But if they do, then they should

        11       be prepared to work as suburbanites.

        12                  So -- and of course the members of

        13       the Black, Puerto Rican, Hispanic and Asian

        14       Caucus have voted against this, because we

        15       view this as an impediment to being able to

        16       employ people who live in the city.  And we

        17       would like to see, among other legislators who

        18       also agree with this -- this is not just that

        19       group, but other groups of legislators

        20       agree -- that employees who are paid by the

        21       city, municipal employees, uniformed employees

        22       in particular, but others as well, should live

        23       in the city.

        24                  So, Madam President, I vote no.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank



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         1       you.

         2                  Senator Savino.

         3                  SENATOR SAVINO:    Thank you, Madam

         4       President.

         5                  Again, I have to disagree with my

         6       colleagues.  And as I've said before, it

         7       always pains me when I have to do that.

         8                  But just to be consistent, this is

         9       a similar situation to the bill that we passed

        10       two weeks ago for sanitation workers and again

        11       last week with respect to the fire alarm

        12       dispatchers.  It's the same situation.

        13                  New York City employees are subject

        14       to the residency requirement as a result of a

        15       deal that was brokered in the 1970s to prevent

        16       middle-class flight from the city at a time

        17       when it was a serious problem.  That is no

        18       longer the case.  The city -- many of the

        19       neighborhoods that city employees live in and

        20       work in, they can no longer afford to purchase

        21       a home in.  That is a reality.  Every one of

        22       us knows that.

        23                  So we're just beginning to extend

        24       to city employees who have -- who have stayed

        25       in the city over the years, and they've



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         1       contributed to the city -- and remember, five

         2       years ago or six years ago, I think it was six

         3       years ago when the members of the Legislature

         4       repealed the commuter tax for people who live

         5       outside of New York City but work there, there

         6       was only one group of people that were

         7       exempted from that repeal.  That was the City

         8       of New York's employees.  They are required to

         9       3 percent out of their salary under Section

        10       1127 of New York State's tax code.  So there

        11       is no loss of tax revenue when city employees

        12       move outside the City of New York.

        13                  And finally, one thing that I may

        14       not have mentioned when I spoke about this in

        15       the past is that many city employees live in

        16       rent-stabilized and rent-controlled

        17       apartments, and they also live in public

        18       housing.  And since the City of New York has

        19       not contributed or built affordable housing as

        20       we lament, often, or low-income housing,

        21       moving some of those people out of that stock

        22       of housing would free it up for many of the

        23       members of the working poor who are living in

        24       substandard housing.

        25                  So again, I will ask my colleagues



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         1       to take that into consideration and recognize

         2       that New York City's employees have already,

         3       already met the burden, and it's time to allow

         4       them to move out of the city when they can --

         5       and not everybody is going to go, but when

         6       they can, so that they can have that little

         7       patch of land that Senator Oppenheimer

         8       referred to in the past where they can have a

         9       garden and they can raise their children

        10       outside of the city.

        11                  Thank you.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        13       you, Senator Savino.

        14                  Is there any other Senator wishing

        15       to be heard?

        16                  The debate is closed.

        17                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

        18                  Read the last section.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Call

        22       the roll.

        23                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Senator

        25       Maltese, to explain his vote.



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         1                  SENATOR MALTESE:    Madam

         2       President, just a brief word.

         3                  I believe in this great country of

         4       ours, in this great state of ours, in this

         5       great city of ours a person should be able to

         6       live where they want in order to carry out

         7       their living.  I do not view living in

         8       New York City as a punishment, I regard it as

         9       a pleasure and something that we do

        10       voluntarily.

        11                  I vote aye.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        13       you.

        14                  Senator Maltese recorded in the

        15       affirmative.

        16                  The Secretary will announce the

        17       results.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

        19       the negative on Calendar Number 1615 are

        20       Senators Brown, Diaz, Dilan, Duane, Gonzalez,

        21       Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, Montgomery,

        22       Parker, Paterson, Serrano and A. Smith.

        23                  Those Senators absent from voting:

        24       Bonacic, Sampson and Volker.

        25                  Ayes, 45.  Nays, 12.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    The

         2       bill is passed.

         3                  The Secretary will read.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         5       1626, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5655A, an

         6       act to amend the Tax Law.

         7                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:

         8       Explanation.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE:    Thank

        10       you.

        11                  Senator Spano, for an explanation.

        12                  SENATOR SPANO:    Madam President,

        13       the purpose of this bill is to direct a

        14       portion of the video lottery terminal money

        15       that is generated at Yonkers Raceway to be --

        16       that's generated at the track to be given to

        17       the educational system of Yonkers.

        18                  It would require an additional

        19       4 percent of the marketing allowance of

        20       Yonkers Raceway would be directed to the

        21       Yonkers Board of Education.  We expect that it

        22       will generate somewhere in the area of some

        23       close to $10 million annually to the city when

        24       VLTs are fully implemented at the track.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



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         1       Stachowski.

         2                  SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Mr.

         3       President, would the sponsor yield for a

         4       question.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

         6       Spano, do you yield?

         7                  SENATOR SPANO:    Yes.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

         9       sponsor yields.

        10                  SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    I know that

        11       we supported an amendment similar to this in

        12       nature, so I'm prepared to vote for this.  I

        13       just had a question on it.

        14                  I know that Yonkers has very little

        15       racing.  I know they're still racing but they

        16       have cut back on the number of days they're

        17       racing.  With VLTs finally coming in, are they

        18       planning on increasing the number of days that

        19       they're going to race?

        20                  SENATOR SPANO:    The track is

        21       shutting down for a short period of time in

        22       order to go through rehabilitation to build

        23       out for the VLTs.  Once they are implemented,

        24       we fully anticipate the track to expand their

        25       racing days, because there will be a lot more



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         1       competition, we'll have more horses.

         2                  And over the last several months

         3       we've seen days and weeks where the track was

         4       down as a result of not having enough horses

         5       to race.  We expect, once the VLTs are

         6       implemented, we're going to see that

         7       enthusiasm at Yonkers Raceway, and the result

         8       will be additional racing days.

         9                  SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Thank you.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        11       Sabini.

        12                  SENATOR SABINI:    Thank you, Mr.

        13       President.  If the sponsor would yield.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        15       Spano, do you yield?

        16                  SENATOR SPANO:    Yes.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        18       sponsor yields.

        19                  SENATOR SABINI:    I was just

        20       wondering if the sponsor could tell the body

        21       why the bill is restricted to only one VLT

        22       site in the state when we have one going into

        23       Aqueduct and we have other VLT sites around

        24       the state -- Saratoga Raceway, Buffalo, and a

        25       few others coming online.



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         1                  SENATOR SPANO:    We had a -- I had

         2       a bill previously that would share money with

         3       the host communities of any communities that

         4       had a racetrack with VLTs within their

         5       boundaries.  It was clear that the Assembly

         6       showed no interest at all in passing that

         7       measure, although I think there was

         8       overwhelming support here in this house for

         9       it.

        10                  As a result, we said let's try to

        11       narrow the bill a bit to help a city that has

        12       some severe financial issues, with our

        13       proximity to the City of New York, where we

        14       are hurt as a result of the school aid

        15       formula.  We are hurt because we're a unique

        16       city, being the only city to be under

        17       federal-court-ordered integration.  And the

        18       final year of that funding for that

        19       integration suit is up next year, and we fall

        20       over the cliff by the amount of some

        21       $40 million.

        22                  So I think it's important for us to

        23       support the City of Yonkers in this measure,

        24       and I think it would be overwhelmingly

        25       successful and hope to expand that bill to



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         1       other host communities across the state.

         2                  SENATOR SABINI:    Mr. President,

         3       on the bill.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

         5       Sabini, on the bill.

         6                  SENATOR SABINI:    While the

         7       sponsor knows that the Yonkers school system

         8       is in trouble, I would submit that the

         9       New York City school system has been

        10       documented by several courts now as being a

        11       system that's underfunded.  And this would not

        12       direct any revenue from that facility in

        13       Aqueduct to the New York City school system.

        14                  I'm a little torn on this bill, but

        15       I'm not sure that it's the best of public

        16       policies with regard to Yonkers, not having

        17       enough horses to run now.  With the --

        18       hopefully the passage of Senator Padavan's

        19       bill, there will be enough horses around for

        20       everyone, and they won't be other places,

        21       they'll be at the racetrack where they belong.

        22                  I intend to vote no.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

        24       other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?

        25                  Debate is closed, then.



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         1                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

         2                  Read the last section.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect July 1, 2006.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         6       roll.

         7                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

         9       Klein, to explain his vote.

        10                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Thank you, Mr.

        11       President.

        12                  I rise in support of this

        13       legislation, mainly because it's almost

        14       identical to an amendment that I tried to pass

        15       in March of this very year.  I said at the

        16       time that we should be using our VLT monies to

        17       benefit our schoolchildren.

        18                  And schoolchildren, especially in

        19       Yonkers, certainly need a quick infusion of

        20       cash.  There's presently a $46 million deficit

        21       in the education system in the City of

        22       Yonkers.  And I think this is a wonderful

        23       opportunity to not only get them the money

        24       they need now to continue to educate our young

        25       people, but at the same time it's also a



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         1       wonderful opportunity, I think, to

         2       rehabilitate and bring back Yonkers Raceway.

         3       There was a time when Yonkers Raceway used to

         4       have over 40,000, 45,000 people in an evening.

         5       That's clearly not the case now.

         6                  But when I did introduce my

         7       amendment back in March, I still believe today

         8       it's still important not only to help Yonkers,

         9       but all of the host tracks.  Clearly, even if

        10       you have a racetrack in Saratoga and you may

        11       not need that quick infusion of cash or any

        12       more cash for education, you still are

        13       providing more police service, more sanitation

        14       service.  So I think it's very, very important

        15       that we do have those additional monies for

        16       the host racinos, so to speak.

        17                  So again, I commend Mr. Spano for

        18       putting in this important legislation.  I hope

        19       it passes the Assembly as well, because I

        20       think this is a wonderful opportunity to help

        21       the schoolkids of Yonkers and also the

        22       racetrack in Yonkers Raceway, which happens to

        23       be in my district.

        24                  I vote yes on this legislation.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



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         1       Klein will be recorded in the affirmative.

         2                  The Secretary will announce the

         3       results.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

         5       the negative on Calendar Number 1626 are

         6       Senators Breslin, Duane, L. Krueger, Padavan,

         7       Parker, Sabini, Savino, Schneiderman, Serrano,

         8       A. Smith and Stavisky.

         9                  Those Senators absent from voting:

        10       Bonacic, Sampson and Volker.

        11                  Ayes, 46.  Nays, 11.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        15       1627, by Senator Little, Senate Print 5664, an

        16       act to amend Chapter 444 of the Laws of 1997.

        17                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:

        18       Explanation.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        20       Little, Senator Liz Krueger has requested an

        21       explanation.

        22                  SENATOR LITTLE:    Thank you, Mr.

        23       President.

        24                  This bill extends provisions of law

        25       relating to IDAs, industrial development



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         1       authorities, until July 1, 2008.  It is a

         2       straight three-year extender.

         3                  The industrial development

         4       agencies' authority to finance not-for-profit

         5       projects will sunset unless they are extended

         6       by this Legislature.  Authority to finance

         7       not-for-profit civic-facilities projects was

         8       first given to IDAs in 1987.  Subsequently the

         9       law was extended in 1993, 1997, 1999, 2002.

        10       This bill proposes to extend the bill this

        11       year until July 1st of 2008.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        13       Krueger.

        14                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        15       Mr. President.  On the bill.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        17       Krueger, on the bill.

        18                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        19                  Well, there's been a lot of

        20       proposals floating around around IDAs, and I

        21       have to say it's very disappointing that we

        22       have a proposal to have a straight extender

        23       for three years when I think most of us in

        24       this house know that there are serious

        25       problems with the way the IDA system is run in



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         1       this state.

         2                  There have been any number of

         3       newspaper exposes about out-and-out scandals

         4       or serious questions of conflicts of interest

         5       with IDAs around the state.  There have

         6       reports done by the State Comptroller's office

         7       around problems with the IDAs.

         8                  Some of us were hoping we would

         9       negotiate reforms for IDAs this year.  We

        10       haven't.  Then we thought perhaps we'd have a

        11       short-term extender, giving both houses more

        12       opportunity to make the needed changes and to

        13       come to an agreement.  But I have to say I

        14       don't think anyone thought doing a straight

        15       extender for another 36 months was in the best

        16       interests of the state.

        17                  So for the record, despite the fact

        18       that I think clearly that is what this house

        19       will pass today, we should not be doing a

        20       straight extender of IDAs.  We have a lot of

        21       cleaning up to do.  And while we do a straight

        22       extender, we have more problems erupting

        23       around the state from allowing these public

        24       authorities, with the most minimal oversight

        25       by the Legislature or by any state agency,



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         1       continue to be allowed to give tax exemptions,

         2       PILOTs, compete with each other for businesses

         3       from one county to another, overlap various

         4       tax exemptions and credits with Empire Zones

         5       and brownfields and anything else imaginable,

         6       so that certain businesses appear to avoid

         7       paying any taxes to the State of New York and

         8       get to ride roughshod over local interests and

         9       local land-use policies.

        10                  Just to highlight from the Post 

        11       Standard, problems with consultant services in

        12       the billing used in the Destiny USA project

        13       and their role in relationship to several IDAs

        14       in that area.  Scandals from the New York 

        15       Times involving funding to campaign donors

        16       through Nassau County and IDAs there.

        17       Comptroller's Report on Industrial Development

        18       Agencies Project Evaluation Criteria and

        19       Monitoring Efforts, highlighting distinct

        20       problems in both the decision-making process,

        21       the steps to be followed, whether or not jobs

        22       were created, project performance, the fact

        23       that there were no penalties or sanctions when

        24       businesses in agreements with IDAs failed to

        25       meet their obligations, no standard policies



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         1       or procedures for monitoring for projects, for

         2       bringing the public in to review proposals by

         3       the IDAs before decisions are made.

         4                  These are not new problems for any

         5       of us.  They have been fully documented.

         6       There's probably not an IDA that hasn't had

         7       some newspaper stories at the local level

         8       questioning what was going on.  I've got piles

         9       of them here.  And in respect to Senator

        10       DeFrancisco, I won't read them all.

        11                  But the fact is that we know what

        12       we should be doing rather than a three-year

        13       extension for industrial development agencies.

        14       Some of us aren't sure we think we should have

        15       them at all.  But if we are going to have

        16       them, we need to ensure that we've got broader

        17       oversight and coordination of their programs

        18       and activities, that we've got ongoing

        19       reporting of the impact on communities and

        20       what is happening in relationship to the

        21       changes made or the programs -- projects taken

        22       on by IDAs.  Basic standards that are mandated

        23       for IDAs and their projects at the state

        24       level.  Actual reporting requirements that

        25       measure, on an annual basis, how many jobs are



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         1       created or retained in relationship to the

         2       payments in lieu of taxes, tax credits or

         3       exemptions at the county or local level.

         4       Overlap between IDA deals and Empire Zone

         5       deals and brownfield deals requiring

         6       enforceable claw-back penalties.  Having

         7       public hearings in a timely manner prior to

         8       decisions being made with no necessity for the

         9       public to ask -- to have to file FOIA requests

        10       to get the proposals, only to not even learn

        11       of the information before the board members of

        12       the IDA have voted.  Requiring a standard of

        13       transparency in how IDAs are run that we

        14       haven't even started to explore.  Establishing

        15       meaningful penalties for IDAs that violate

        16       state and local laws.

        17                  Again, the list is -- I could go on

        18       for an extended period of time on exactly what

        19       we ought to be doing.  And yet with a

        20       three-year extender I will hazard to guess

        21       that this Legislature may choose to simply

        22       ignore any of these problems or any of the

        23       proposed fixes we could be making for another

        24       36 months.

        25                  So I am very disappointed that in



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         1       the last few days of session, rather than

         2       taking on a very important change in the laws

         3       that we all recognize we should be addressing,

         4       we are proposing to punt the problem for

         5       another 36 months.

         6                  And I hazard to guess that the next

         7       time, if it does take another three years

         8       before we revisit these issues, that the next

         9       time we're asked to consider changes in IDA

        10       law, the memos in my file of scandals and

        11       problems and failures of IDAs around the state

        12       will be a much thicker file, and we will have

        13       only ourselves to blame for not addressing the

        14       issue now as the bill is sunsetting.

        15                  I urge us to vote against this bill

        16       and move forward with, if at minimum we can't

        17       make the reforms we ought to in both houses, a

        18       much shorter extension, perhaps six to eight

        19       months rather than 36 months.

        20                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        22       Little.

        23                  SENATOR LITTLE:    Thank you, Mr.

        24       President.

        25                  For the record, and in response to



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         1       the previous speaker's comments, I would like

         2       to say that this is one of three bills that I

         3       have proposed on the IDAs.  Our first bill was

         4       a Senate bill that would make some changes to

         5       the IDA laws and regulations and would also

         6       extend this provision for the financing of

         7       not-for-profits.

         8                  However, after several meetings

         9       with my staff, the Senate staff, Assemblyman

        10       Sweeney's staff from the Assembly, we came up

        11       with another bill trying to incorporate some

        12       ideas for reform that the Assembly has, some

        13       ideas that the Senate had, and also to ensure

        14       the organizations in need of IDA funding would

        15       be able to get them.

        16                  We have been able to come to

        17       absolutely no agreement on the bill.  And up

        18       until 10 o'clock last night, there were still

        19       meetings trying to come to an agreed-upon bill

        20       between the two houses.  We were unable to do

        21       that.

        22                  And in response to being unable to

        23       do that, we propose a three-year extender.

        24       And I would emphasize the need for a lengthy

        25       period of an extension rather than a monthly



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         1       extension or a six-to-nine-month extension,

         2       because many projects are on the table or go

         3       on the table, so therefore they would not be

         4       able to rely upon the IDA funding that was

         5       necessary for them.

         6                  Extending this is important to many

         7       hospitals, to many developmental disability

         8       projects, many of them nonprofit projects that

         9       could be funded through IDA bonds by extending

        10       this bill.  And therefore, we propose this

        11       extension.

        12                  And there is absolutely nothing

        13       that prevents either body from continuing to

        14       work on the reforms in the meantime.

        15                  Thank you.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        17       Brown.

        18                  SENATOR BROWN:    Thank you, Mr.

        19       President.

        20                  I certainly understand what Senator

        21       Little is saying with respect to experiencing

        22       some difficulty in being able to work out some

        23       kind of compromise on IDA legislation.

        24       However, I too am disappointed that we are

        25       simply extending the IDA law as opposed to



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         1       reforming the IDA law.

         2                  I want to bring to everybody's

         3       attention a situation in my own county, in

         4       Erie County, where it has been all too common

         5       for businesses to be pirated from one section

         6       of the community to another section of the

         7       community.

         8                  In Buffalo, where I live, recently

         9       there was a court case involving a neighboring

        10       municipality where one business was given

        11       inducements, given benefits to move from the

        12       city of Buffalo to a neighboring municipality.

        13       And in that lawsuit, it was found that that

        14       was done improperly.  But what ended up

        15       happening is that the company, the

        16       corporation, the developer that actually built

        17       out the facility that the new business went

        18       into, they ended up having to pay a penalty

        19       and having to pay taxes to the municipality

        20       that really was responsible for pirating this

        21       business from one municipality to the other

        22       municipality.  And it seems like there should

        23       have been a penalty for the municipality.

        24                  So really the anti-piracy

        25       provisions in this legislation should be



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         1       strengthened, should be reformed.  That's one

         2       issue that we're not dealing with through this

         3       extension.  And that is one of the major

         4       reasons why I will be voting no for this piece

         5       of legislation.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

         7       Schneiderman.

         8                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

         9       Mr. President.  Very briefly on the bill.

        10                  I strongly concur with the views

        11       expressed by my colleagues earlier, Senator

        12       Krueger and Senator Brown.  We are voting to

        13       extend a program that is so problematic and so

        14       riddled with problems that it doesn't even

        15       come up to the level of other programs in this

        16       state that many of us find to be problematic

        17       in and of themselves.

        18                  The Empire Zone program includes a

        19       provision that makes compliance with

        20       environmental, worker safety and other public

        21       interest laws a condition for receiving and

        22       maintaining certification.  There's no similar

        23       requirement for IDAs.

        24                  We have in New York State a serious

        25       problem that we're going to be addressing one



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         1       way or the other, and IDAs are emblematic of

         2       the problem.  The problem is this.  Our tax

         3       code -- and people on the other side of the

         4       aisle love to complain about high taxes.  We

         5       have the worst of both worlds.  We have high

         6       marginal tax rates, but our tax code is so

         7       riddled with loopholes, exceptions, tax

         8       giveaways and expenditures that we actually

         9       generate very little revenue for all these

        10       high marginal rates.

        11                  We're approaching a situation where

        12       we have two types of businesses in New York

        13       State.  If you are not on the public dole

        14       through some IDA program, Empire Zone program

        15       or specific loophole crafted for you by clever

        16       lobbyists, you are in a business that's

        17       subsidizing all those other businesses.

        18                  This is not a situation where you

        19       can give tax breaks to half the businesses in

        20       the state and pretend it doesn't affect the

        21       other half of the businesses.  So I also am

        22       going to vote against this.  I think it is

        23       really an abrogation of our duty to give this

        24       long of an extension for a program that costs

        25       the taxpayers of this state hundreds of



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         1       millions of dollars, if not billions of

         2       dollars, without reforming it, without

         3       ensuring simple things -- like businesses that

         4       violate the law aren't receiving benefits.

         5       That's not in the IDA law.

         6                  So what we've got here is a

         7       situation where the refusal to agree, for

         8       whatever reason, whatever motivation, has the

         9       effect of providing some very, very

        10       politically connected businesses with a

        11       benefit that then results in them being

        12       subsidized by all the other businesses,

        13       particularly small businesses, in the state

        14       that do not have those connections.

        15                  So I'll be voting no.  And I know

        16       we'll be dealing with this issue of tax

        17       expenditures as we go forward.  This is just

        18       an unfortunate example of our inability to get

        19       some very basic reforms done before the end of

        20       this year's session.

        21                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

        23       other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?

        24                  Debate is closed, then.

        25                  The Secretary will ring the bell.



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         1                  Read the last section.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         5       roll.

         6                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

         8       Stachowski, to explain his vote.

         9                  SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Mr.

        10       President, to explain my vote.

        11                  I'm reluctantly going to vote for

        12       this measure, because I don't want to see

        13       legitimate projects that are important to

        14       not-for-profits -- i.e., hospitals and some

        15       important groups in our areas that have IDAs

        16       that maybe are building or planning to build

        17       and not being able to do that project and hurt

        18       the community that way.

        19                  However, I would hope that Senator

        20       Little and the Assembly cochair of this area

        21       would get back together and still do something

        22       in the area of reform, because the

        23       anti-pirating thing is a joke.  I mean,

        24       consistently one particular IDA in our area

        25       goes to court -- not on every project; they



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         1       could be there all the time if they had all

         2       the insurance companies that they took out of

         3       different communities and built tax-free

         4       buildings in their community and moved out all

         5       insurance companies up there.  There's a lot

         6       of vacant office space in Buffalo due to that,

         7       but not everybody sues.  Every time they do

         8       sue, they win.

         9                  The trouble is when they win, the

        10       fine is miniscule and the company is still in

        11       the community that they went to.  That happens

        12       to Buffalo, it happens to the older suburbs.

        13       And it's not what IDAs are supposed to do.

        14                  So the fact is I'm going to vote

        15       for this measure, but I wish that they would

        16       continue to work to try to get some of these

        17       reform measures to do a little bit better

        18       oversight and make IDAs do what they're

        19       supposed to do, not move office buildings and

        20       medical centers to IDA property at a tax-free

        21       location.

        22                  I vote yes.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        24       Stachowski will be recorded in the

        25       affirmative.



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         1                  Senator DeFrancisco, to explain his

         2       vote.

         3                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes, I

         4       agree with much of what Senator Stachowski and

         5       Senator Krueger spoke about.  The problem is

         6       we've got to move this legislation to keep

         7       projects going.

         8                  But it is very, very frustrating

         9       when you see a project in my community that

        10       has been talked about for four years, and

        11       nothing happens.  And now the county IDA is

        12       literally considering expanding a project that

        13       doesn't exist by taking 29 property owners'

        14       property by eminent domain, and having a

        15       meeting tomorrow night to discuss and to vote

        16       upon a proposal by the developer which hasn't

        17       been publicly disclosed despite prior

        18       statements that they were going to disclose

        19       it.  When you've got 29 business owners,

        20       active businesses paying taxes in the dark

        21       about what's going to happen to their project.

        22                  Now, if we as a legislative body

        23       did anything like that, I would suspect that

        24       there would be a public outcry.  But it's even

        25       worse if it's an appointed group of people



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         1       basically making these decisions behind closed

         2       doors with no disclosure and a decision that

         3       seems to me absolutely out of line in view of

         4       the past history with this particular project

         5       developer.

         6                  So, you know, three years is a long

         7       time.  And if I had my druthers, I would hope

         8       that we'd make it a shorter period.  But there

         9       has to be some reforms of this process.  It is

        10       getting out of control.  And I'm just speaking

        11       from my perspective from my community.

        12                  Thank you.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        14       DeFrancisco will be recorded in the

        15       affirmative.

        16                  Senator Hassell-Thompson, to

        17       explain her vote.

        18                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

        19       you, Mr. President.

        20                  When IDAs were created, JDAs and

        21       all of the other authorities, municipalities

        22       needed ways in which to do certain projects

        23       that the constitution didn't allow them to do.

        24       But what I think we've done is we've created a

        25       shadow government.  And I know that IDAs have



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         1       done some good projects, there's no question

         2       that they've done many good ones in my

         3       district and in other districts around the

         4       state.

         5                  But my concern comes when we

         6       extend, without any language that calls for

         7       reviews within that three-year period, that we

         8       do an extension of this length.  I am very

         9       concerned that -- about the length of time,

        10       which is why I'm voting no.

        11                  But my real concern is that we

        12       continue to create authorities that later are

        13       subject to their own authority.  And so I have

        14       real concerns about us extending something

        15       that most of us are already very uncomfortable

        16       with.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        18       Hassell-Thompson will be recorded in the

        19       negative.

        20                  Senator Brown, to explain his vote.

        21                  SENATOR BROWN:    Thank you, Mr.

        22       President, to explain my vote.

        23                  I initially was going to vote no on

        24       this piece of legislation, but Senator

        25       Stachowski makes a very persuasive point, the



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         1       same point that Senator Little made.  While I

         2       am concerned that we are not performing the

         3       necessary reforms to IDA legislation, there

         4       are many projects in my community and across

         5       the state that are going to require these

         6       benefits.  So for that reason, I will vote for

         7       this piece of legislation.

         8                  However, I do think that we are

         9       extending it for too long a period of time.  I

        10       think this is a process that is crying out for

        11       reform.  And I hope that we move to accomplish

        12       that reform sooner rather than later.

        13                  I vote yes.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        15       Brown will be recorded in the affirmative.

        16                  The Secretary will announce the

        17       results.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

        19       the negative on Calendar Number 1627 are

        20       Senators Connor, Diaz, Dilan, Duane,

        21       Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, Maziarz,

        22       Montgomery, Parker, Sabini, Savino,

        23       Schneiderman, Serrano, A. Smith and Stavisky.

        24                  Absent from voting:  Senator

        25       Bonacic.



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         1                  Ayes, 44.  Nays, 15.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                  Senator Fuschillo, that completes

         5       the controversial reading of the calendar.

         6                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

         7       President, there will be a meeting of the

         8       Rules Committee in the Majority Conference

         9       Room at 4:20.

        10                  The Senate will stand at ease.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There

        12       will be a meeting of the Rules Committee in

        13       the Majority Conference Room at 4:20.

        14                  The Senate will stand at ease.

        15                  (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

        16       ease at 4:06 p.m.)

        17                  (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

        18       at 4:40 p.m.)

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        20       Fuschillo.

        21                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

        22       President, please return to reports of

        23       standing committees.  I believe there's a

        24       report of the Rules Committee at the desk.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Reports



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         1       of standing committees.

         2                  The Secretary will read the report

         3       of the Rules Committee.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,

         5       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

         6       following bills:

         7                  Senate Print 5819, by Senator

         8       Flanagan, an act to amend the Election Law;

         9                  5820, by Senator Flanagan, an act

        10       to amend the Election Law;

        11                  5822, by Senator Flanagan, an act

        12       to amend the Election Law;

        13                  1405, by Senator Seward, an act to

        14       amend the Insurance Law;

        15                  1473, by Senator LaValle, an act

        16       authorizing the Town of East Hampton;

        17                  1870A, by Senator Maltese, an act

        18       to amend the Civil Rights Law;

        19                  1894A, by Senator Robach, an act to

        20       amend the State Finance Law;

        21                  1925A, by Senator Balboni, an act

        22       to amend the Insurance Law;

        23                  1939, by Senator Golden, an act to

        24       amend the Tax Law;

        25                  2206, by Senator Padavan, an act to



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         1       amend the Penal Law and others;

         2                  2516A, by Senator Maltese, an act

         3       to amend the General Municipal Law;

         4                  2707C, by Senator Skelos, an act to

         5       amend the Public Health Law;

         6                  2709, by Senator DeFrancisco, an

         7       act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law;

         8                  2795B, by Senator Flanagan, an act

         9       to amend the Correction Law;

        10                  3484, by Senator Padavan, an act to

        11       amend the Administrative Code of the City of

        12       New York;

        13                  3489A, by Senator Padavan, an act

        14       to amend the Real Property Law;

        15                  4059, by Senator Libous, an act to

        16       amend the Public Authorities Law;

        17                  4332A, by Senator LaValle, an act

        18       in relation to granting;

        19                  4371A, by Senator Hannon, an act to

        20       amend the Public Health Law and the Executive

        21       Law;

        22                  4420, by Senator Wright, an act in

        23       relation to providing;

        24                  4469A, by Senator Marcellino, an

        25       act to amend the Environmental Conservation



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         1       Law;

         2                  4585A, by Senator Leibell, an act

         3       to amend the Public Service Law;

         4                  5086A, by Senator Hannon, an act to

         5       amend the Public Health Law;

         6                  5238, by Senator Leibell, an act to

         7       amend the Not-For-Profit Corporation Law;

         8                  5310, by Senator Spano, an act to

         9       amend the Labor Law;

        10                  5646, by Senator Spano, an act to

        11       amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;

        12                  5718, by Senator Young, an act to

        13       amend the Social Services Law;

        14                  5725, by Senator Young, an act to

        15       amend Chapter 263 of the Laws of 1981;

        16                  5739, by the Senate Committee on

        17       Rules, an act to amend the Insurance Law;

        18                  5752, by Senator Meier, an act to

        19       amend the Highway Law;

        20                  5757, by Senator Golden, an act to

        21       amend the Social Services Law;

        22                  5773, by Senator Spano, an act to

        23       amend the Labor Law;

        24                  688A, by Senator Maziarz, an act to

        25       amend the Administrative Procedure Act;



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         1                  785, by Senator Fuschillo, an act

         2       to amend the Tax Law;

         3                  And Senate Print 1259A, by Senator

         4       Sabini, an act to amend the Education Law.

         5                  All bills ordered direct to third

         6       reading.

         7                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Move to

         8       accept the report of the Rules Committee.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    All

        10       those in favor of accepting the report of the

        11       Rules Committee signify by saying aye.

        12                  (Response of "Aye.")

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Those

        14       opposed, nay.

        15                  (No response.)

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        17       report of the Rules Committee is accepted.

        18                  Senator Fuschillo.

        19                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

        20       President, may we please have the reading of

        21       the noncontroversial Supplemental Calendar

        22       59A.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

        24       Senator, we have one substitution at the desk.

        25       Could we take care of that first.



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         1                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Please take

         2       it up.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

         4       Secretary will read the substitution.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno

         6       moves to discharge, from the Committee on

         7       Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8818 and

         8       substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

         9       Number 5739, Third Reading Calendar 1664.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

        11       Substitution ordered.

        12                  The Secretary will now conduct the

        13       noncontroversial reading of the supplemental

        14       calendar.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        16       1636, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 5819,

        17       an act to amend the Election Law.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        19       last section.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 7.  This

        21       act shall take effect January 1, 2006.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        23       roll.

        24                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



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         1       Dilan, to explain his vote.

         2                  SENATOR DILAN:    I just rise to

         3       explain my vote on this issue.

         4                  I just want to say that for the

         5       past six months we've been working in the

         6       conference committee on these bills.  I think

         7       we've made good progress.  I think the bill

         8       that's before us at this time is a good bill.

         9       I ask my colleagues to support the bill.

        10                  I want to thank all those

        11       individuals in the conference committee who

        12       worked so hard to get to this point, and I

        13       especially want to thank Senator Flanagan.

        14                  Thank you.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        16       Dilan will be recorded in the affirmative.

        17                  Announce the results.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        22       1637, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 5820,

        23       an act to amend the Election Law.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        25       last section.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         4       roll.

         5                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         8       is passed.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        10       1638, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 5822,

        11       an act to amend the Election Law.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        13       last section.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 17.  This

        15       act shall take effect on the 15th of November.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        17       roll.

        18                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        23       1639, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 1405 --

        24                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

        25       aside.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

         2       bill aside.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         4       1640, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1473,

         5       an act authorizing the Town of East Hampton.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

         7       a home-rule message at the desk.

         8                  Read the last section.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        12       roll.

        13                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        18       1641, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1870A,

        19       an act to amend the Civil Rights Law and

        20       others.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        22       last section.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

        24       act shall take effect immediately.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



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         1       roll.

         2                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         7       1642, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 1894A,

         8       an act to amend the State Finance Law.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        10       last section.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

        12       act shall take effect on the 60th day.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        14       roll.

        15                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        18       is passed.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        20       Calendar Number 1643, Senator Balboni moves to

        21       discharge, from the Committee on Insurance,

        22       Assembly Bill Number 4972A and substitute it

        23       for the identical Senate Bill Number 1925A,

        24       Third Reading Calendar 1643.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:



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         1       Substitution ordered.

         2                  The Secretary will read.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         4       1643, by Member of the Assembly Sweeney,

         5       Assembly Print Number 4972A, an act to amend

         6       the Insurance Law.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

         8       last section.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

        10       act shall take effect on the 120th day.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        12       roll.

        13                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        18       1645, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2206,

        19       an act to amend the Penal Law and others.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        21       last section.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 10.  This

        23       act shall take effect on the first of

        24       November.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



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         1       roll.

         2                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Please lay

         4       it lay aside.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Withdraw

         6       the roll call.

         7                  Lay the bill aside.

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         9       1646, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 2516A,

        10       an act to amend the General Municipal Law.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

        12       a home-rule message at the desk.

        13                  Read the last section.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        17       roll.

        18                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        21       is passed.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        23       1647, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2707C,

        24       an act to amend the Public Health Law.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



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         1       last section.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

         3       act shall take effect July 1, 2008.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         5       roll.

         6                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         9       is passed.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        11       1648, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

        12       2709, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure

        13       Law.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        15       last section.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        19       roll.

        20                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        23       is passed.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        25       1649, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 2795B,



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         1       an act to amend the Correction Law.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

         3       last section.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         7       roll.

         8                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        13       1650, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3484,

        14       an act to amend the Administrative Code of the

        15       City of New York.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        17       last section.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 19.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        21       roll.

        22                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        25       is passed.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         2       1651, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3489A,

         3       an act to amend the Real Property Law.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

         5       last section.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         9       roll.

        10                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        15       1652, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4059, an

        16       act to amend the Public Authorities Law.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        18       last section.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        22       roll.

        23                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



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         1       is passed.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         3       1653, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 4332A,

         4       an act in relation to granting Susan A. Long.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

         6       a home-rule message at the desk.

         7                  Read the last section.

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        11       roll.

        12                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        17       Calendar Number 1655, Senator Wright moves to

        18       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

        19       Assembly Bill Number 8545 and substitute it

        20       for the identical Senate Bill Number 4420,

        21       Third Reading Calendar 1655.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

        23       Substitution ordered.

        24                  The Secretary will read.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



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         1       1655, by Member of the Assembly Reilly,

         2       Assembly Print Number 8545, an act in relation

         3       to providing.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

         5       last section.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         9       roll.

        10                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        15       1656, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print

        16       4469A, an act to amend the Environmental

        17       Conservation Law.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        19       last section.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 10.  This

        21       act shall take effect on the 180th day.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        23       roll.

        24                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

         4       Calendar Number 1657, Senator Leibell moves to

         5       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

         6       Assembly Bill Number 2103B and substitute it

         7       for the identical Senate Bill Number 4585A,

         8       Third Reading Calendar 1657.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

        10       Substitution ordered.

        11                  The Secretary will read.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        13       1657, by Member of the Assembly Brodsky,

        14       Assembly Print Number 2103B, an act to amend

        15       the Public Service Law.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        17       last section.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

        19       act shall take effect on the 120th day.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        21       roll.

        22                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        25       is passed.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

         2       Calendar Number 1658, Senator Hannon moves to

         3       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

         4       Assembly Bill Number 8698A and substitute it

         5       for the identical Senate Bill Number 5086A,

         6       Third Reading Calendar 1658.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

         8       Substitution ordered.

         9                  The Secretary will read.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        11       1658, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        12       Assembly Print Number 8698A, an act to amend

        13       the Public Health Law.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        15       last section.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        19       roll.

        20                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        23       is passed.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        25       1659, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5238,



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         1       an act to amend the Not-For-Profit Corporation

         2       Law.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

         4       last section.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 18.  This

         6       act shall take effect on the 180th day.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         8       roll.

         9                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        12       is passed.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        14       1660, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5310, an

        15       act to amend the Labor Law.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        17       last section.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        21       roll.

        22                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        25       is passed.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         2       1661, by Senator Spano, Senate Print --

         3                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Lay it

         4       aside.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

         6       bill aside.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         8       1663, by Senator Young, Senate Print 5725, an

         9       act to amend Chapter 263 of the Laws of 1981.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        11       last section.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        15       roll.

        16                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        21       1665, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 5752, an

        22       act to amend the Highway Law.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        24       last section.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This



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         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         3       roll.

         4                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         7       is passed.

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         9       1666, by Senator Golden, Senate Print 5757, an

        10       act to amend the Social Services Law.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        12       last section.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 7.  This

        14       act shall take effect December 31, 2005.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        16       roll.

        17                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        20       is passed.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        22       1667, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5773, an

        23       act to amend the Labor Law.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        25       last section.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

         2       act shall take effect on the 180th day.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         4       roll.

         5                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         8       is passed.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        10       1668, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 688A,

        11       an act to amend the State Administrative

        12       Procedure Act.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        14       last section.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect on the first of

        17       November.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        19       roll.

        20                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        23       is passed.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        25       1669, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 785,



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         1       an act to amend the Tax Law.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

         3       last section.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         7       roll.

         8                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        13       Calendar Number 1670, Senator Sabini moves to

        14       discharge, from the Committee on Higher

        15       Education, Assembly Bill Number 7150 and

        16       substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

        17       Number 1259A, Third Reading Calendar 1670.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

        19       Substitution ordered.

        20                  The Secretary will read.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        22       1670, by Member of the Assembly Espaillat,

        23       Assembly Print Number 7150, an act to amend

        24       the Education Law.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



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         1       last section.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         5       roll.

         6                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         9       is passed.

        10                  Senator Fuschillo.

        11                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

        12       President, will you take up the reading of the

        13       controversial calendar, starting with Calendar

        14       Number 1639.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        16       Secretary will conduct the controversial

        17       reading of the calendar.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        19       1639, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 1405, an

        20       act to amend the Insurance Law.

        21                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:

        22       Explanation.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        24       Seward, an explanation has been requested,

        25       with regard to Calendar 1639, by Senator Liz



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         1       Krueger.

         2                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Certainly, Mr.

         3       President.

         4                  This legislation is designed to

         5       address the serious problem that we have in

         6       the State of New York with over 3 million

         7       New Yorkers not having health insurance.  And

         8       this legislation provides a multiple approach

         9       in strategy to reduce the number of uninsured

        10       that we have in this state and to help people

        11       afford health insurance.

        12                  It provides so by using the private

        13       market, tax advantages and state subsidy of

        14       the commercial market to bring health

        15       insurance within the means of every single

        16       New Yorker.  It's market-driven, giving

        17       consumers real choices, another option, so

        18       that we can reduce the number of uninsured.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        20       Krueger.

        21                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        22       Mr. President.  If the sponsor would please

        23       yield.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        25       Seward, do you yield for a question?



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         1                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Certainly, Mr.

         2       President.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

         4       sponsor yields.

         5                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         6                  Since my understanding is the

         7       "freedom policies" would be a new model for

         8       insurance in New York State, what current

         9       coverage now mandated by New York State law

        10       might be excluded under this new policy?

        11                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Well, Mr.

        12       President, this legislation before us does not

        13       in itself exclude any coverages.

        14                  However, those individuals who

        15       choose the -- this option, the "freedom

        16       policy" option, would have the flexibility to

        17       buy any coverage with any of the existing

        18       mandates -- and more, for that matter.  It

        19       gives the consumer the choice to buy the type

        20       of coverage that makes sense for them and that

        21       they can afford.

        22                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Mr.

        23       President, if, through you, the sponsor will

        24       continue to yield.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



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         1       Seward, do you continue to yield?

         2                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Certainly.

         3                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    By

         4       "consumer" in your previous answer did you

         5       mean the recipient of the health insurance

         6       policy or the employer?  Who chooses?

         7                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Well, Mr.

         8       President, it would depend on who was actually

         9       making the purchase of the health insurance.

        10       The -- most of our health insurance is

        11       employment-based.  So under this option, it

        12       would provide the flexibility for employers

        13       and their employees to sit down with their

        14       health plan and design a health insurance plan

        15       that both the employer and the employee can

        16       afford and meets the needs of the employees

        17       and their families.

        18                  This does not take anything away

        19       from existing health insurance policies.

        20       People could -- people and businesses could

        21       still choose to remain right where they are.

        22       However, this provides an additional option.

        23                  And frankly, Mr. President, this is

        24       aimed directly at those 3 million New Yorkers

        25       who currently do not have any health



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         1       insurance.  So the idea -- and this has been

         2       the experience in other states that have gone

         3       down this road, is that it tends to draw more

         4       people into the health insurance market.

         5       Those individuals and businesses who are

         6       currently not in the health insurance market,

         7       it gets them in, and that's better for

         8       everyone.

         9                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Mr.

        10       President, if the sponsor would continue to

        11       yield.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        13       Seward, do you continue to yield?

        14                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Certainly.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        16       sponsor yields.

        17                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        18                  Your last answer implied that this

        19       will be coverage for people not currently

        20       insured.  But does that mean if I already am

        21       an employee of a company that provides me

        22       health insurance that I get to stay with that

        23       insurance?  Or will my employer have the right

        24       to drop whatever coverage they have for me and

        25       go to this state-subsidized new "freedom



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         1       plan"?

         2                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Well, Mr.

         3       President, the only state subsidy involved

         4       here is for small businesses, 50 or fewer,

         5       that under this legislation, as well as our

         6       Senate tax cut plan that we had passed earlier

         7       in this house, would receive a 50 percent tax

         8       credit.

         9                  But to answer your question

        10       directly, Mr. President, it offers

        11       flexibility.  And what I mean by that is that

        12       employers and employees would have the option

        13       to stay right where they are.

        14                  However, employers working with

        15       their employees could decide to opt into the

        16       so-called freedom policies, which involve the

        17       health savings accounts which have become

        18       available because of the federal Medicare bill

        19       passed -- I believe it was in December 2003.

        20       And these are high-deductible policies.  And

        21       under this legislation, we incorporate these

        22       health savings accounts with what we call

        23       freedom policies to provide flexibility.  No

        24       one is required to go that route, but that's

        25       another option for them.



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         1                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Mr.

         2       President, if the sponsor would continue to

         3       yield.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

         5       Seward, do you yield?

         6                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Certainly, Mr.

         7       President.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

         9       sponsor yields.

        10                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        11       Each of these answers triggers another

        12       question that I want to ask.

        13                  What would be the savings for a

        14       person who opts into a new freedom account as

        15       opposed to the current insurance that they

        16       have as an employee of a small business?

        17                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Well, Mr.

        18       President, a lot would depend on the various

        19       treatment options that are purchased as part

        20       of the policy.  But we estimate that the

        21       health savings accounts with the

        22       high-deductible policies, coupled with these

        23       freedom accounts, we estimate about a

        24       40 percent savings when it comes to their

        25       health insurance costs.



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         1                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         2                  Mr. President, if the sponsor would

         3       continue to yield.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

         5       Seward, do you continue to yield?

         6                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Certainly.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

         8       sponsor yields.

         9                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    You mention

        10       that these are low-cost, high-deductible.

        11       What's the high deductible?  What does that

        12       mean in your plan?

        13                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Well, Mr.

        14       President, this is dictated by the federal

        15       legislation.  This -- our particular bill

        16       before us does not get into that.

        17                  But for the purposes of

        18       information, these health savings accounts are

        19       required to be high-deductible policies.  The

        20       minimum is $1,000 for an individual, $2,000

        21       for a family.  And that actually, under the

        22       federal legislation, goes as high as a $5,000

        23       deductible.

        24                  And I might add that preventive

        25       services are exempt from the deductible.  And



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         1       while these deductibles may seem very high,

         2       this $1,000/$2,000 as a minimum, I would point

         3       out that those that choose this option, if

         4       they had that 40 percent savings when it comes

         5       that their health insurance costs, then they

         6       would have that pool of money -- the employer

         7       and the employee, for that matter, would have

         8       that pool of money to contribute to the health

         9       savings account.

        10                  And those funds could be used to

        11       take care of those expenses up to the

        12       deductible level and also cover any expenses

        13       that may not be covered under the particular

        14       health insurance plan that they purchase.

        15                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Through

        16       you, Mr. President, if the sponsor would

        17       continue to yield.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        19       Seward, do you continue to yield?

        20                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Certainly.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        22       sponsor yields.

        23                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    So as I

        24       understood it, it could be $1,000 or $2,000

        25       deductible, or even higher.  There are choices



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         1       involved, including the freedom by the

         2       insurers from having to cover certain benefits

         3       that we mandate in other state insurance

         4       plans.

         5                  So since I've been here in the

         6       Legislature, we've required that health

         7       insurance policies sold in New York State

         8       cover mammograms, prescription contraceptives,

         9       osteoporosis screening, cervical cancer

        10       screening, prostate cancer, checkups and

        11       immunizations for children.  None of these

        12       would be mandated under the freedom insurance

        13       plans?

        14                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Mr. President,

        15       our legislation does not disrupt the mandates

        16       that Senator Krueger mentions if people choose

        17       to stay with those types of policies.

        18                  However, if they choose this option

        19       that we're including in this legislation, then

        20       they would have the flexibility, the

        21       purchaser -- it's not the insurer making these

        22       choices, it's the purchaser, the employer and

        23       the employee -- then they would have the

        24       flexibility to purchase and include in their

        25       plan those treatments, many of which, very



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         1       worthy ones that you've mentioned, Senator

         2       Krueger, they would have that flexibility to

         3       certainly include those that were important to

         4       them.

         5                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Mr.

         6       President, if the sponsor would yield for

         7       another question.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator,

         9       do you yield?

        10                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Certainly.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        12       sponsor yields.

        13                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        14                  What's the estimated cost to the

        15       state of this program, and where would that

        16       money come from?

        17                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Well, Mr.

        18       President, in terms of the health savings

        19       accounts -- and that part of the program is no

        20       cost to the state.  I mean, that's the

        21       contractual arrangement in terms of purchasing

        22       health insurance in the private market.

        23                  The tax credit portion for small

        24       employers, the 50 percent tax credit, is a

        25       phase-in over 10 years.  And that grows,



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         1       according to the Department of Taxation and

         2       Finance, in that tenth year out, to close to

         3       $2 billion in terms of the tax credit.  That

         4       is the only so-called cost to the state.

         5                  But I would point out that we, as

         6       part of our budget this year, have included in

         7       our Health Care Reform Act, HCRA, a lot of

         8       money is directed at this uninsured population

         9       in terms of providing care in the pools that

        10       go out to the hospitals that are caring for

        11       this group that show up at the hospital.

        12                  So if we can use that money,

        13       through this tax credit, to get more people to

        14       purchase private health insurance, my gut

        15       tells me that we will actually reduce those

        16       costs on the other side.  So I don't really

        17       consider that tax credit as an expense to the

        18       state.  I think we're going to derive many

        19       savings because more people will be in the

        20       health insurance market.

        21                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        22       Mr. President.  On the bill.

        23                  I appreciate the sponsor's answers.

        24       I could go on much longer, but I have reviewed

        25       this legislation in the past, and we've even



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         1       debated it here in the past, so I will spend

         2       some time explaining why I think this is a

         3       mistake.

         4                  For one, to I suppose jump to the

         5       cost issue, the sponsor's statement that this

         6       could cost up to $2 billion in tax credits to

         7       the State of New York is a real cost.  When we

         8       don't collect taxes we otherwise would, it's

         9       the same thing as spending the money.

        10                  So from my perspective on

        11       economics, money we don't have in revenue for

        12       expenditures and money we don't collect

        13       through tax credits is the same, almost

        14       $2 billion.

        15                  Second, there's many questions

        16       raised about whether we would cover any new

        17       additional people in health insurance under

        18       this plan, as opposed to watch New Yorkers

        19       currently under health insurance losing their

        20       right to the health insurance they have

        21       through their current employers and being

        22       switched into these high-deductible, low-cost,

        23       limited-benefit health plans.

        24                  And a great concern that I think

        25       all of us should have is that in the absence



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         1       of having mandated services under these

         2       insurance plans, that the kinds of health care

         3       benefits most of us expect would be covered by

         4       health insurance -- certainly all of us in the

         5       Legislature recognize we have with our health

         6       insurance benefits as state employees -- would

         7       disappear.

         8                  As I stated in one of my questions

         9       to the sponsor, under this plan if an

        10       insurance company -- and he said keeps -- he

        11       said through choice, but it's not actually

        12       consumer choice, it's the health insurance

        13       company and the employer choice, not the

        14       consumer of healthcare choice -- if they so

        15       choose, that insurance won't cover women's

        16       health.  It won't cover men's health.  It

        17       might not cover child health.  It might not

        18       cover cancer treatments.  It might not cover

        19       almost anything we think of health insurance

        20       supposedly being there for.

        21                  So the fact that we are proposing a

        22       product without regulations on what kinds of

        23       healthcare coverages have to be there I think

        24       is a giant step in the wrong direction for the

        25       State of New York, which has fought long and



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         1       hard to ensure that in this state when we have

         2       health insurance we actually mandate that

         3       fundamental, basic healthcare is paid for

         4       through that health insurance.

         5                  So we have a program that will cost

         6       us up to $2 billion that may not lead to any

         7       additional New Yorkers being covered by health

         8       insurance, but we may replace and substitute

         9       weaker health insurance packages for the

        10       current packages currently provided by

        11       employers.

        12                  And I suppose most -- not most

        13       disturbing, but additionally disturbing to me

        14       is that this is a program modeled on a

        15       low-cost but high-deductible healthcare

        16       insurance model.  And there was a recent

        17       report put out by the Commonwealth Fund, which

        18       I think is considered by most both nonpartisan

        19       and the premier health policy think tank in

        20       the country, or one of them.  And their

        21       analysis of high-deductible, low-cost health

        22       insurance plans from around the country, or

        23       what they call HDHPs, shows that while it is

        24       an effective marketing strategy by insurance

        25       companies, that there are serious problems for



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         1       the consumers.

         2                  Adults with a high deductible have

         3       significantly greater difficulty accessing

         4       care due to costs, compared to those with a

         5       lower or no deductible -- again, the sponsor

         6       talked about $1,000 or $2,000 deductibles.

         7       Based on the Commonwealth study, 38 percent of

         8       adults with deductibles of $1,000 or more

         9       reported at least one of four cost-related

        10       access problems:  not filling prescriptions,

        11       not getting needed specialist's care, skipping

        12       recommended tests or follow-up, or having a

        13       medical problem but not visiting a doctor or

        14       clinic.  By contrast, only 21 percent of

        15       adults with no deductible report any of these

        16       problems.

        17                  High-deductible plans are

        18       particularly problematic for lower-income

        19       Americans.  A predicted 44 percent of people

        20       with incomes below $35,000 and a deductible of

        21       $500 or more -- and we're talking $1,000 or

        22       $2,000 in this proposal -- experience

        23       cost-related access problems.

        24                  People who are sick would have a

        25       more difficult time obtaining needed care



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         1       under a high-deductible, low-cost plan.  Among

         2       adults with a deductible of $500 who rate

         3       their healthcare as fair or poor who have a

         4       chronic condition or disability, a predicted

         5       45 percent have cost-related access problems.

         6                  Medical bill problems are more

         7       common among those with higher deductibles.

         8       Medical bill problems and medical debt are

         9       greater among low-income adults with higher

        10       deductibles.  And for insured adults who are

        11       ill, having higher deductibles would mean they

        12       would be likely to have more difficulties

        13       paying their medical bills and accumulating

        14       medical debt.

        15                  This isn't the direction New York

        16       State should be going.  I agree completely

        17       with the sponsor we should be addressing the

        18       problems of uninsured New Yorkers.  We should

        19       be coming up with models for health insurance

        20       that expand the pool of people who are covered

        21       at the lowest cost to the taxpayer, and with

        22       an assurance that the health insurance they're

        23       getting will in fact meet their needs when

        24       they're sick.

        25                  Unfortunately, this package would



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         1       not guarantee they actually get access to

         2       healthcare, just a high-deductible package

         3       called an insurance policy.  It would cost the

         4       State of New York $2 billion annually when

         5       fully implemented, if I understood the

         6       sponsor's answers correctly.  There's no

         7       documentation that new New Yorkers would be

         8       covered by this health insurance.  This isn't

         9       the direction we should go.

        10                  On the other hand, I would argue

        11       that the Senate Democrats and Senator Valesky

        12       in his bill, 5544, actually proposes a plan

        13       that would address some of the needs of

        14       uninsured New Yorkers without costing an

        15       enormous amount of money to the state, that

        16       would provide insurance to people currently

        17       employed and not insured, that we would

        18       actually, through pooling, the buying power of

        19       small businesses and their employees,

        20       potentially decrease the cost of premiums for

        21       health insurance for small businesses up to

        22       40 percent.

        23                  There are directions we can go.

        24       There are steps we should take to expand the

        25       pool of employees in the State of New York who



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         1       can be insured and to help decrease the costs

         2       for small businesses.  But to quote Citizen

         3       Action, one of the opponents to the bill, "The

         4       Freedom to Sell Really, Really, Really Bad

         5       Health Insurance Policies" should be the name

         6       of this freedom plan.

         7                  So I hope that Senator Seward might

         8       consider going back to the drawing board,

         9       continuing his desire to expand health

        10       insurance in the State of New York for

        11       uninsured people, but please don't go down

        12       this road.  The research done nationally on

        13       states who have done this has shown us that

        14       these are serious mistakes, that what this

        15       type of model gets you is a race to the bottom

        16       in terms of what health insurance means today

        17       and actually covers for people.

        18                  So we could say we feed every

        19       New Yorker by claiming, if we give every one

        20       of them a slice of bread, everybody ate every

        21       day, but we would know that wasn't really

        22       addressing the food needs of New Yorkers.  And

        23       we can move forward with plans such as this

        24       and pretend we're expanding the universe of

        25       health insurance coverage.  But it is a race



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         1       to the bottom where our health insurance

         2       coverage ultimately won't cover anything we

         3       get sick for.

         4                  So I would urge my colleagues to

         5       vote against this bill.

         6                  Thank you very much, Mr. President.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

         8       other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?

         9                  Senator Oppenheimer.

        10                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Thank you,

        11       Mr. President.

        12                  I appreciate what it is Senator

        13       Seward is attempting with this bill, these

        14       freedom policies.  But I have some objections

        15       which I'm going to mention in a moment.

        16                  But if the goal is to lower the

        17       cost of health insurance for small businesses

        18       and for their employees, I think there's

        19       better ways to do that.  And $2 billion is not

        20       a small amount of money.  But if it were to be

        21       put into our program which we already have,

        22       which is Family Health Plus, you could cover a

        23       half a million low-wage employees for the same

        24       amount of money, and the coverage would be

        25       much better and at a lower cost than what's



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         1       available now in the private health insurance

         2       market.

         3                  What I'm talking about is my

         4       concern, when I say the coverage is not ample,

         5       this really would, you know, move backwards on

         6       most of our consumer protection -- the

         7       consumer protections that we have put in in

         8       the last decade.

         9                  And what particularly concerns me

        10       is certain women's health benefits that are

        11       required now by law in our policies but would

        12       not be required, and they are important --

        13       timely mammograms, osteoporosis screening,

        14       prescription contraception.

        15                  And it's not just women's health

        16       benefits, it's men's health benefits too.

        17       There's -- no screening for prostate cancer

        18       would be allowed.  As far as our movement to

        19       try and have children get their checkups and

        20       their immunizations in a timely manner, that

        21       wouldn't be included.  And we keep talking

        22       about preventive medicine.  Well, that would

        23       be eliminated in this freedom policy.

        24                  So -- and there's ever so many

        25       other things that are not covered.  Hospice



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         1       care isn't covered, home healthcare by

         2       registered nurses, outpatient treatment for

         3       mental health.  I mean, it's too much to give

         4       up when you think that we do have a policy out

         5       there.  The Family Health Plus could meet all

         6       the requirements of lower cost for small

         7       businesses and at the same time would permit

         8       good coverage for workers and their families.

         9                  So I'm going to be voting no and

        10       hoping that we can find another answer.  I

        11       understand what you're doing is laudable, but

        12       I don't think this is the answer.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

        14       other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?

        15                  Senator Schneiderman.

        16                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

        17       Mr. President.  Briefly on the bill.

        18                  We spoke earlier at length on the

        19       floor here today about immigration as an issue

        20       that we're going to have to be dealing with

        21       over the next few years.  I would suggest that

        22       the second issue we have to deal with is the

        23       fact that the healthcare system in this

        24       country, the system for insuring Americans, is

        25       unravelling.



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         1                  And I would respectfully submit

         2       that the bill before us right now is the wrong

         3       approach to solving that problem.  This is not

         4       a market approach to dealing with healthcare,

         5       the fact that we have an exploding pool of

         6       uninsured in New York State.  In fact, this is

         7       a bill where we intervene in the market to

         8       provide tax subsidies essentially to bribe

         9       small businesses to cut health benefits.

        10                  This is proving tax subsidies for

        11       the so-called freedom plans.  The freedom

        12       plans are free from requirements that they

        13       provide healthcare services, that's what the

        14       freedom is.

        15                  And my colleagues have spoken about

        16       the struggle to pass health benefits for

        17       women, to provide managed-care consumer

        18       protections.  Under this bill, a plan could

        19       eliminate all of these requirements that have

        20       been fought for, stop covering contraception,

        21       stop covering checkups and immunizations for

        22       children and, to add insult to injury, get a

        23       tax state subsidy.  So the taxpayers are

        24       subsidizing plans to encourage small

        25       businesses to provide inadequate healthcare,



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         1       to provide less healthcare than many of those

         2       businesses are providing now.

         3                  This is not the right approach.  We

         4       have got to do something about the crisis of

         5       the uninsured.  We're not going to do it by

         6       cutting benefits.

         7                  I note that there is a campaign on

         8       this year, as there has been last year, and

         9       many are hopeful that we'll pass Timothy's Law

        10       to provide parity on the treatment of mental

        11       health problems.  If we did that, this bill

        12       would provide a loophole for that also.

        13                  I mean, this is something that

        14       creates inadequate healthcare and requires a

        15       tax subsidy.  It is not a market-driven bill.

        16                  On the other hand, Senator

        17       Valesky's bill, Senate 5544, is a completely

        18       market-driven bill.  It pools small businesses

        19       to enable them to purchase health insurance at

        20       a lower rate by pooling their market power.

        21       That's the kind of market-driven approach.

        22                  Let's not pass a bill that

        23       subsidizes businesses that cut benefits for

        24       their workers.  Let's move forward and expand

        25       coverage.  Let's pass Timothy's Law.  You want



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         1       to cut the expense of health insurance?  Let's

         2       move towards a simpler, more rational system,

         3       as they have in every other industrial

         4       democracy, and stop the insurance bureaucrats

         5       from driving up the costs of healthcare.

         6                  I'm going to vote no, Mr.

         7       President, and encourage everyone to vote no.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

         9       other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?

        10                  Debate is closed, then.

        11                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

        12                  Read the last section.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 25.  This

        14       act shall take effect January 1, 2006.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        16       roll.

        17                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        19       Seward, to explain his vote.

        20                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Yes, thank you,

        21       Mr. President, to explain my vote.

        22                  I certainly would have to say that

        23       everyone deserves access to primary,

        24       preventive and acute care, along with all of

        25       the other medical technology and the new



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         1       pharmaceuticals that goes along with all of

         2       that, and especially the peace of mind that

         3       they and their families are covered with their

         4       health insurance.

         5                  But the question is, can they

         6       afford it.  And for far too many New Yorkers,

         7       that answer is no.

         8                  And for those who would argue that

         9       everything is fine, that we do not need change

        10       in the state of New York, that the health

        11       insurance policies that have been designed

        12       through statute, in this house and the other,

        13       the simple fact is that over half the

        14       particularly small businesses of New York

        15       cannot afford the health insurance policies

        16       that have been designed by statute.

        17                  This legislation before us would

        18       provide available and affordable health

        19       insurance coverage for those 3 million

        20       New Yorkers who currently have no coverage at

        21       all.  I think it's a worthy goal, this is a

        22       blueprint to get us there, and I vote aye.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        24       Seward will be recorded in the affirmative.

        25                  Senator Hassell-Thompson, to



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         1       explain her vote.

         2                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Yes,

         3       thank you.  Thank you, Mr. President.

         4                  We've had a lot of discussion.  And

         5       the interesting thing is that many of our

         6       small businesses have in fact come to us to

         7       talk about the kinds of insurances that they

         8       need to be able to have for their employees.

         9                  But when I look at this bill, while

        10       it may purport to do that, the biggest concern

        11       that I have is that while gutting the basic

        12       protections of the Women's Health and Wellness

        13       Law, this plan would also experience drastic

        14       changes or cause drastic changes to maternity

        15       services, pediatric oncology, and possibly

        16       more.

        17                  Some of the examples of quick

        18       concerns that I have is that this bill would

        19       allow the HMOs to set their standards for

        20       hospital discharges for new mothers and

        21       babies.  And while I know that many of you

        22       know historically that women have gone to the

        23       fields and had their babies and gone back to

        24       the fields in the same afternoon, I certainly

        25       don't encourage that kind of behavior for



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         1       maternal care.

         2                  The freedom plan also -- this

         3       legislation would also allow health plans to

         4       limit or deny the coverage for

         5       doctor-recommended well-child visits where

         6       children receive their immunization and

         7       practitioners track them for growth and

         8       development.  On and on.

         9                  But suffice it to say that this

        10       would also allow HMOs to decide if they wish

        11       to exclude coverage for infertility.

        12                  For many of these reasons, I will

        13       be voting no, Mr. President, on this

        14       particular bill.  Thank you.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        16       Hassell-Thompson will be recorded in the

        17       negative.

        18                  The Secretary will announce the

        19       results.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

        21       the negative on Calendar Number 1639 are

        22       Senators Brown, Connor, Diaz, Dilan, Duane,

        23       Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, C. Kruger,

        24       Montgomery, Morahan, Oppenheimer, Parker,

        25       Paterson, Sabini, Sampson, Savino,



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         1       Schneiderman, A. Smith, Stavisky.  Also

         2       recorded in the negative, Senators M. Smith

         3       and Serrano.

         4                  Those Senators absent from voting

         5       on Calendar Number 1639:  Senators Bonacic and

         6       Gonzalez.

         7                  Ayes, 37.  Nays, 21.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         9       is passed.

        10                  Senator Fuschillo.

        11                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

        12       President, could we please return to the

        13       noncontroversial reading of Supplemental

        14       Calendar A.

        15                  Calendar Number 1664, Senate Print

        16       Number 5739, from the Rules report was

        17       inadvertently left off the active list.  It

        18       was reported from Rules.  Please take it up.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Very

        20       well.  The Secretary will return to the

        21       noncontroversial reading of the calendar and

        22       will read Calendar 1664.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        24       1664, substituted earlier today by the

        25       Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print



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         1       Number 8818, an act to amend the Insurance

         2       Law.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

         4       last section.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         8       roll.

         9                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        11       Breslin, to explain his vote.

        12                  SENATOR BRESLIN:    Yes, Your

        13       Honor.  When I arrived in the Senate nine

        14       years ago, I thought NYPIUA was the name of a

        15       dog.  But fortunately for all of us, it's not.

        16       It's a safety net insurance association that

        17       provides coverage to homes and businesses

        18       throughout this state when, quite frankly,

        19       there's not insurance available other places.

        20       And it insures some 57,000 homes and

        21       businesses -- 30,000 in New York City, some

        22       14,000 in Long Island, and the remainder

        23       basically in upstate cities, with some minor

        24       farm areas.

        25                  And we, other than Alabama, are the



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         1       only state that doesn't have this as a

         2       permanent association.  So those 57,000 homes

         3       and businesses each year have to worry about

         4       extending it.  And we've in fact let it lapse

         5       on a couple of occasions.  The Assembly has

         6       seen fit over the last 10 years to pass

         7       legislation that has made it permanent.  But

         8       we don't.

         9                  And think of yourself as a

        10       homeowner or a business owner, each year

        11       wondering what the New York State Legislature

        12       is going to do.  If I'm in that precarious

        13       situation of being subject to storms off the

        14       coast of Long Island or be in cities and areas

        15       that are dangerous and subject to vandalism or

        16       fire, and each year wondering whether next

        17       year will I have the appropriate insurance,

        18       the appropriate insurance to keep my business

        19       afloat or to have a home for my family.

        20                  I vote aye on this legislation

        21       extending it a year, but I think we should

        22       seriously consider finally making it permanent

        23       and leaving Alabama alone.

        24                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



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         1       Breslin will be recorded in the affirmative.

         2                  Senator LaValle, to explain his

         3       vote.

         4                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Thank you, Mr.

         5       President.

         6                  I rise to support this legislation,

         7       reluctantly.  And my remarks really would

         8       parallel Senator Breslin's.

         9                  Orange homeowners, particularly on

        10       Long Island, where we have a lot of homes

        11       along the water, need permanency, need to know

        12       that they have coverage.  Last year the law

        13       lapsed, actually, for a couple of months, and

        14       both agents and homeowners were really in a

        15       state of concern, nervousness.  And that

        16       shouldn't happen.

        17                  I just hope in the intervening year

        18       that we heed the advice of the independent

        19       agents who really would like to see this, you

        20       know, extended for a longer period of time or

        21       made permanent.  I think that time has really

        22       come.  I don't believe we should be making

        23       laws that -- where we're playing Russian

        24       roulette with the homeowners of our state.

        25                  So I reluctantly cast my vote in



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         1       the affirmative.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

         3       LaValle will be recorded in the affirmative.

         4                  The Secretary will announce the

         5       results.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         8       is passed.

         9                  Senator Fuschillo.

        10                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

        11       President, could we please return to the

        12       reading of the controversial calendar,

        13       starting with Calendar Number 1664 -- 1665 --

        14       1645.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        16       third time is the charm, Senator.

        17                  The Secretary will return to the

        18       controversial reading of the calendar,

        19       beginning with Calendar 1645.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        21       1645, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2206,

        22       an act to amend the Penal Law and others.

        23                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Explanation.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        25       Padavan, an explanation has been requested of



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         1       Calendar 1645.

         2                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Thank you, Mr.

         3       President.

         4                  While auto crime in the state has

         5       dramatically decreased over the past decade,

         6       it's still a very serious issue.

         7                  We've done a bit of work in the

         8       subject area -- lot of hearings, two reports,

         9       one called "The Perfect Crime" and the other a

        10       follow-up to that report.  We had police

        11       agencies, such as the NYPD, city of New York,

        12       district attorneys, such as the DAs from

        13       Queens and Brooklyn and others, come before us

        14       with recommendations and problem areas that

        15       they had identified in the course of their

        16       dealing with this serious problem.

        17                  And it is a serious problem.  It

        18       affects all of us.  It affects our insurance

        19       rates.  It's a vehicle by which organized

        20       crime finances other activities as well as

        21       makes money off this.  It affects the quality

        22       of life.  It affects people's plans when they

        23       go outside their house one day and their car

        24       is not there.  And it deals also with the

        25       issue of stolen parts, which sometimes are not



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         1       quite what they should be, ending up in

         2       someone else's vehicle and providing an unsafe

         3       environment.

         4                  Now, the primary problem that was

         5       brought to our attention is addressed by this

         6       bill.  And I might say, parenthetically, the

         7       problem we have has been addressed many years

         8       ago in our neighboring states such as

         9       New Jersey and Pennsylvania.  And that deals

        10       with the issue of reasonable presumptions.

        11                  First, the bill would create a

        12       statutory knowledge presumption modeled on the

        13       presumption for credit and debit cards

        14       contained in the same section of the law.

        15       It's highly unlikely that a person in the

        16       possession of two stolen vehicles would not

        17       know that they were stolen.

        18                  Second, the bill would create an

        19       evidentiary presumption that a person who

        20       takes, operates, rides or sits inside or

        21       otherwise uses a motor vehicle possesses that

        22       vehicle for the purposes of criminal

        23       possession of stolen property, that he wasn't

        24       just sitting in there getting out of the cold.

        25                  Now, this problem came to light



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         1       significantly in a case known as the Rivera

         2       case, where an individual -- a policeman came

         3       upon this individual in a car where the lock

         4       had been broken on the outside, where part of

         5       the steering wheel had been disassembled,

         6       obviously with the intent of shorting out the

         7       ignition, and he arrested him.  And he was

         8       charged with auto theft.

         9                  In the final disposition of the

        10       case, the court ruled that since no evidence

        11       was offered to establish when the defendant

        12       entered the vehicle or what part, if any, he

        13       played in its taking, his presence in the car

        14       could not be equated to auto theft but simply

        15       a lesser crime which would be akin to

        16       trespass.

        17                  Now, obviously, that puts a crimp

        18       in the ability of dealing with individuals,

        19       because the penalty is significantly

        20       different.  And so this bill would address

        21       that problem.  The net result of the Rivera

        22       case is that passengers in stolen autos would

        23       only be subject to a charge of unauthorized

        24       use, unauthorized use of a motor vehicle.

        25       Unauthorized use statutes begin with a Class A



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         1       misdemeanor.  As opposed to grand larceny,

         2       which is obvious a felony.

         3                  Now, I have personal experience of

         4       my own.  A car was stolen in front of my

         5       house.  Six weeks later, the person who stole

         6       it rammed it into another car, and as a result

         7       of that serious accident he was arrested.

         8       Because when the police came on the scene,

         9       while the license plate had been changed, from

        10       Senate whatever to North Carolina, he hadn't

        11       changed the registration sticker on the

        12       windshield.  So they knew something was wrong.

        13                  And they arrested him, and they

        14       charged him with auto theft.  Now, he said, "I

        15       didn't steal the car."  And they said, "You

        16       didn't?  Well, you were driving it.  And as a

        17       matter of fact, you totaled it."  He said,

        18       "No, it was given to me by another guy."  And

        19       he gave him up.

        20                  And sure enough, someone had given

        21       him the car, the guy that had stolen it.

        22       Fortunately, that guy was also in jail at that

        23       moment in time, because he had committed

        24       another crime between stealing my car and

        25       giving my car to this other fellow who was



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         1       apprehended.

         2                  The point I'm making is that when

         3       that individual who was found with my car was

         4       facing an auto theft prosecution, he was very

         5       eager to tell the police who had actually

         6       stolen the car.  Well, that may be an isolated

         7       case.

         8                  But the issue, simply put, is if

         9       someone is in a car, the lock's broken, he's

        10       sitting there, he hasn't driven off yet and a

        11       policeman comes upon the scene, does the

        12       district attorney have to prove that he was in

        13       the process of stealing the car?  Or should

        14       the defendant have to prove that he wasn't in

        15       the process of stealing the car?  Which is

        16       currently the way it is, as a result of the

        17       Rivera case.

        18                  This bill would address that issue,

        19       along with some other issues involving chop

        20       shops.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        22       Montgomery.

        23                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, I just

        24       wanted to thank Senator Padavan for that

        25       explanation and that example.



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         1                  I think I just want to comment, Mr.

         2       President, on the legislation.  I certainly

         3       agree with Senator Padavan that if you are --

         4       if you possess two vehicles, two stolen

         5       vehicles, vehicles that you did not purchase,

         6       that you should know that they probably are

         7       stolen or you should know that there's a

         8       presumption that you should know that they're

         9       stolen.

        10                  However, I do have a serious

        11       problem with this issue of the fact that the

        12       bill creates an evidentiary presumption that a

        13       person who rides or sits inside a vehicle

        14       possesses that vehicle for the purpose of

        15       criminal possession of stolen property, and he

        16       creates a grand larceny charge.

        17                  Now, the problem that I have is

        18       that while in the case of the person who was

        19       found driving his car -- which is obviously a

        20       terrible traumatic experience to have a car

        21       stolen -- the person was not guilty of

        22       actually stealing the car himself but received

        23       the car from someone else who had stolen the

        24       car.

        25                  But in many parts of our state, as



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         1       well as the city, but not even as much as the

         2       city, in other parts of the state young people

         3       start to drive very early, and they ride in

         4       groups of two or three or four.  And this

         5       legislation would, in the event some young

         6       person takes a vehicle that doesn't belong to

         7       that young person and goes to pick up several

         8       or his or her friends, those youngsters would

         9       be eligible to be prosecuted under this

        10       legislation.

        11                  And so I think that we need to

        12       really think a little bit more about how we

        13       include everybody.  We already have that

        14       problem that if you're in the car and there's

        15       drugs in the car, there's a gun in the car,

        16       everyone in the car is equally guilty.  This

        17       continues that trend.  And I think that we

        18       should think about this a little bit more.

        19                  So I'm going to vote no on this,

        20       Mr. President, because I don't feel

        21       comfortable with including sitting in a

        22       vehicle as being presumed to have knowledge

        23       that it's stolen and thereby being charged

        24       with a crime.  Thank you.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any



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         1       other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?

         2                  Debate is closed, then.

         3                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

         4                  Senator Saland.

         5                  SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you, Mr.

         6       President.  A bit of housekeeping.

         7                  I'd like to remove a sponsor's star

         8       on Senate 5415, Calendar 1272.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    So

        10       ordered.

        11                  Read the last section.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 10.  This

        13       act shall take effect on the first of

        14       November.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        16       roll.

        17                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

        19       the negative on Calendar Number 1645 are

        20       Senators Duane, Hassell-Thompson, Montgomery

        21       and Parker.

        22                  Absent from voting:  Senators

        23       Bonacic and Gonzalez.

        24                  Ayes, 54.  Nays, 4.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



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         1       is passed.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         3       1661, by Senator Spano --

         4                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Lay it aside

         5       for the day.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

         7       bill aside for the day.

         8                  Senator Fuschillo, that completes

         9       the controversial reading of the calendar.

        10                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

        11       President, there will be an immediate meeting

        12       of the Rules Committee in the Majority

        13       Conference Room.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Could we

        15       take care of some housekeeping?

        16                  We'll call an immediate meeting of

        17       the Rules Committee in the Majority Conference

        18       Room.

        19                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Is there

        20       housekeeping at the desk?

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    We have

        22       some, yes.

        23                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Please take

        24       care of it.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator



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         1       Robach.

         2                  SENATOR ROBACH:    Yes, Mr.

         3       President.  On page 31, I offer the following

         4       amendments to Calendar Number 911, Senate

         5       Print Number 4040A, and ask that the said bill

         6       retain its place on Third Reading Calendar, on

         7       behalf of Senator Fuschillo.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

         9       amendments are received and adopted, and the

        10       bill will retain its place on third reading.

        11                  SENATOR ROBACH:    And also, Mr.

        12       President, on page 7, I offer the following

        13       amendments to Calendar 149, Senate Print

        14       Number 484B, and ask that said bill retain its

        15       place on third reading, on behalf of Senator

        16       Skelos.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        18       amendments are received and adopted, and the

        19       bill will retain its place on the Third

        20       Reading Calendar.

        21                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

        22       President.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        24       Fuschillo.

        25                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    We will stand



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         1       at ease pending the return of the report of

         2       Rules Committee.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

         4       Senate will stand at ease pending the report

         5       of the Rules Committee.

         6                  (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

         7       ease at 6:08 p.m.)

         8                  (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

         9       at 6:30 p.m.)

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        11       Fuschillo.

        12                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

        13       President, would you return to the reports of

        14       standing committees.  I believe there's a

        15       report of the Rules Committee at the desk.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Reports

        17       of standing committees.

        18                  The Secretary will read the report

        19       of the Rules Committee.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,

        21       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

        22       following bills:

        23                  Senate Print 751, by Senator

        24       Hannon, an act to amend the New York State

        25       Medical Care Facilities Finance Agency Act;



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         1                  2444B, by Senator Padavan, an act

         2       to amend Part H of Chapter 60 of the Laws of

         3       2004;

         4                  4157B, by Senator Robach, an act to

         5       amend the Criminal Procedure Law;

         6                  4175, by Senator Maltese, an act to

         7       amend the Penal Law;

         8                  4281, by Senator Oppenheimer, an

         9       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;

        10                  4504B, by Senator Maziarz, an act

        11       to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;

        12                  4698, by Senator Golden, an act to

        13       amend the Penal Law;

        14                  4734, by Senator Maltese, an act to

        15       amend the New York State Financial Emergency

        16       Act for the City of New York;

        17                  4758A, by Senator Saland, an act to

        18       amend the Penal Law;

        19                  4778, by Senator Padavan, an act to

        20       amend the Private Housing Finance Law;

        21                  4970, by Senator Padavan, an act to

        22       amend the Administrative Code of the City of

        23       New York;

        24                  5025A, by Senator Alesi, an act to

        25       establish;



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         1                  5168, by Senator Marchi, an act to

         2       amend the Civil Service Law;

         3                  5185, by Senator Leibell, an act to

         4       amend the Public Authorities Law;

         5                  5259, by Senator Padavan, an act to

         6       amend the Real Property Tax Law;

         7                  5297A, by Senator Meier, an act to

         8       amend the Education Law;

         9                  5359, by Senator Padavan, an act to

        10       amend the Real Property Tax Law;

        11                  5373, by Senator Golden, an act to

        12       authorize;

        13                  5418, by Senator Marchi, an act to

        14       amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;

        15                  5419A, by Senator Spano, an act to

        16       amend the Environmental Conservation Law;

        17                  5491A, by Senator Flanagan, an act

        18       to amend the Education Law;

        19                  5511, by Senator Spano, an act to

        20       authorize;

        21                  5520A, by the Senate Committee on

        22       Rules, an act to amend the Tax Law;

        23                  5534A, by Senator Wright, an act to

        24       amend the Social Services Law;

        25                  5576A, by Senator Marcellino, an



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         1       act to amend the Environmental Conservation

         2       Law;

         3                  5587A, by Senator Leibell, an act

         4       to amend the Military Law;

         5                  5617, by the Senate Committee on

         6       Rules, an act to amend the Tax Law;

         7                  5658A, by Senator Maziarz, an act

         8       to amend the Public Authorities Law;

         9                  5676, by Senator Little, an act to

        10       authorize;

        11                  5677, by Senator Johnson, an act to

        12       amend the Executive Law;

        13                  5680, by Senator Volker, an act to

        14       provide;

        15                  5681, by Senator Volker, an act to

        16       amend the Tax Law;

        17                  5686, by Senator Young, an act to

        18       amend the Education Law;

        19                  5687, by Senator Seward, an act to

        20       amend the Highway Law;

        21                  5691, by the Senate Committee on

        22       Rules, an act to amend the Tax Law;

        23                  5721, by the Senate Committee on

        24       Rules, an act to amend the Tax Law;

        25                  5738, by Senator Meier, an act to



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         1       amend the Public Authorities Law;

         2                  And Senate Print 5741, by Senator

         3       LaValle, an act establishing.

         4                  All bills ordered direct to third

         5       reading.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

         7       Fuschillo.

         8                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Move to

         9       accept the report of the Rules Committee.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    All

        11       those in favor of accepting the report of the

        12       Rules Committee signify by saying aye.

        13                  (Response of "Aye.")

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Those

        15       opposed, nay.

        16                  (No response.)

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        18       report of the Rules Committee is accepted.

        19                  Senator Fuschillo, the Secretary

        20       has a couple of subs.  Could we do those

        21       first?

        22                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Please take

        23       them up.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        25       Secretary will read the substitutions.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    On page 4,

         2       Senator Marcellino moves to discharge, from

         3       the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number

         4       6402A and substitute it for the identical

         5       Senate Bill Number 1485A, Third Reading

         6       Calendar 64.

         7                  On page 33, Senator Larkin moves to

         8       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

         9       Assembly Bill Number 5767 and substitute it

        10       for the identical Senate Bill Number 444,

        11       Third Reading Calendar 992.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

        13       Substitutions ordered.

        14                  Senator Fuschillo.

        15                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

        16       President, please take up Supplemental

        17       Calendar B.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        19       Secretary will conduct the noncontroversial

        20       reading of Supplemental Calendar B.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        22       1671, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 751, an

        23       act to amend the New York State Medical Care

        24       Facilities Finance Agency Act.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the



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         1       last section.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         5       roll.

         6                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         9       is passed.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        11       1672, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2444B,

        12       an act to amend Part H of Chapter 60 of the

        13       Laws of 2004 amending the Tax Law.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        15       last section.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        19       roll.

        20                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        23       is passed.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        25       1674 --



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         1                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Lay it

         2       aside.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

         4       bill aside.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         6       1675, by Senator Oppenheimer, Senate Print

         7       4281, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic

         8       Law.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

        10       a home-rule message at the desk.

        11                  Read the last section.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        15       roll.

        16                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        19       is passed.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        21       Calendar Number 1676, Senator Maziarz moves to

        22       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

        23       Assembly Bill Number 7264B and substitute it

        24       for the identical Senate Bill Number 4504B,

        25       Third Reading Calendar 1676.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

         2       Substitution ordered.

         3                  The Secretary will read.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         5       1676, by Member of the Assembly Abbate,

         6       Assembly Print Number 7264B, an act to amend

         7       the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

         9       last section.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        13       roll.

        14                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        17       is passed.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        19       1677, by Senator Golden, Senate Print 4698, an

        20       act to amend the Penal Law.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        22       last section.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        24       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



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         1       roll.

         2                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

         4       Parker, to explain his vote.

         5                  SENATOR PARKER:    Yes, thank you,

         6       Mr. President, to explain my vote.

         7                  I want to first thank the sponsor,

         8       Senator Golden, for raising this important

         9       issue.  And I think that, you know,

        10       prostitution and what happens with our young

        11       people is critically important, and it's

        12       important that we deal with it.

        13                  But there are many issues that have

        14       not been dealt with as of yet.  We only have

        15       three days yet, three, before we end session.

        16       And it's critical that we spend some time

        17       really dealing with the issues that need to be

        18       dealt with.  We would not have to worry about

        19       prostitution from young children if we had

        20       done what we were supposed to be doing here,

        21       what the people of the state have said we need

        22       to do, what the courts have said we need to

        23       do, what the Legislature knows we need to do,

        24       and putting more money into our schools for

        25       education.  CFE needs to be dealt with, and it



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         1       needs to be dealt with before we leave here

         2       this session.

         3                  This is an important bill, and I

         4       think that we should continue -- I'm voting

         5       for it.  I think we should pass it --

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

         7       Fuschillo, why do you rise?

         8                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

         9       President, I appreciate everything Senator

        10       Parker is saying.  I don't believe this is

        11       germane to the bill that's on the floor.

        12                  SENATOR PARKER:    I'm

        13       explaining --

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Well,

        15       Senator, the Acting Majority Leader's point is

        16       well taken.  The purpose of the time you're

        17       granted is to explain your vote.

        18                  SENATOR PARKER:    And I'm voting

        19       for this bill, and I'll tell you why I'm

        20       voting for this bill --

        21                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Mr.

        22       President, point of order.  Point of order.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        24       Schneiderman, why do you rise?

        25                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Point of



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         1       order.

         2                  There is nothing in the Senate

         3       Rules, and I invite anyone to contradict me,

         4       that imposes a germaneness requirement on

         5       explaining the vote.  Two minutes, that's it.

         6                  I respectfully request that Senator

         7       Parker be allowed to continue.  The

         8       germaneness requirement does apply when you're

         9       speaking on a bill, but not when you're

        10       explaining a vote.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Well,

        12       Senator, it's the ruling of the chair that the

        13       germaneness requirement relates to the matter

        14       before the house.  And the Senator is

        15       recognized for the purpose of explaining his

        16       vote on the bill before the house.

        17                  Senator Parker.

        18                  SENATOR PARKER:    I will explain

        19       my vote.

        20                  I'm voting yes on this bill and I'm

        21       voting yes on this bill because I've worked

        22       with Senator Golden, I think that he knows

        23       what's important for young people.  I think

        24       that he thinks that this is a good step for us

        25       doing it.



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         1                  But in addition to this good step,

         2       we also need to do other things, like CFE.

         3       And I'm hoping that he will use this as a

         4       gateway to talk about some of the other

         5       issues.

         6                  We're in the last three days, Mr.

         7       President.  I hope we get an opportunity to

         8       talk about Timothy's Law and ethics reform and

         9       rules reform, in addition to dealing with

        10       these important issues.

        11                  I'm voting aye.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        13       Parker will be recorded in the affirmative.

        14                  Senator Montgomery, to explain her

        15       vote.

        16                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, Mr.

        17       President, to explain my vote.

        18                  I'm voting no on this bill, and I

        19       wish that Senator Golden would see fit to make

        20       sure that any john who accepts the actions

        21       that he describes in here of a 14-year-old

        22       should be severely punished.  And maybe they

        23       should even receive the punishment of Senator

        24       LaValle's bill this morning.  But he chooses

        25       to punish the children.



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         1                  So I'm voting no on this

         2       legislation.  I think it's the wrong -- we're

         3       punishing the wrong one.  We should be

         4       punishing the johns.

         5                  Thank you.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

         7       Montgomery will be recorded in the negative.

         8                  The Secretary will announce the

         9       results.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

        11       the negative on Calendar Number 1677 are

        12       Senators Duane, Hassell-Thompson and

        13       Montgomery.

        14                  Ayes, 57.  Nays, 3.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        16       is passed.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        18       1678, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 4734,

        19       an act to amend the New York State Financial

        20       Emergency Act for the City of New York.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        22       last section.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        24       act shall take effect immediately.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the



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         1       roll.

         2                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         5       is passed.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         7       1679, by Senator Saland --

         8                  SENATOR SAVINO:    Lay it aside.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

        10       bill aside.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        12       1680, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 4778,

        13       an act to amend the Private Housing Finance

        14       Law.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        16       last section.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        20       roll.

        21                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        24       is passed.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



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         1       1681, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 4970,

         2       an act to amend the Administrative Code of the

         3       City of New York.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

         5       last section.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         9       roll.

        10                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        15       1682, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 5025A, an

        16       act to establish a statewide first responder

        17       building mapping information system.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        19       last section.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        23       roll.

        24                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         2       is passed.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         4       1683, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 5168, an

         5       act to amend the Civil Service Law.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

         7       last section.

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         9       act shall take effect immediately.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        11       roll.

        12                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        15       is passed.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        17       1684, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5185,

        18       an act to amend the Public Authorities Law.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        20       last section.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        24       roll.

        25                  (The Secretary called the roll.)



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

         5       Calendar Number 1685, Senator Padavan moves to

         6       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

         7       Assembly Bill Number 7728 and substitute it

         8       for the identical Senate Bill Number 5259,

         9       Third Reading Calendar 1685.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

        11       Substitution ordered.

        12                  The Secretary will read.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        14       1685, by Member of the Assembly McLaughlin,

        15       Assembly Print Number 7728, an act to amend

        16       the Real Property Tax Law.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        18       last section.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        22       roll.

        23                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



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         1       is passed.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

         3       Calendar Number 1686, Senator Meier moves to

         4       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

         5       Assembly Bill Number 7172A and substitute it

         6       for the identical Senate Bill Number 5297A,

         7       Third Reading Calendar 1686.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

         9       Substitution ordered.

        10                  The Secretary will read.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        12       1686, by Member of the Assembly Magee,

        13       Assembly Print Number 7172A, an act to amend

        14       the Education Law.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        16       last section.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        20       roll.

        21                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        24       is passed.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to



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         1       Calendar Number 1687, Senator Padavan moves to

         2       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

         3       Assembly Bill Number 8120 and substitute it

         4       for the identical Senate Bill Number 5359,

         5       Third Reading Calendar 1687.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

         7       Substitution ordered.

         8                  The Secretary will read.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        10       1687, by Member of the Assembly McLaughlin,

        11       Assembly Print Number 8120, an act to amend

        12       the Real Property Tax Law.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        14       last section.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        18       roll.

        19                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        22       is passed.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        24       1688, by Senator Golden, Senate Print 5373, an

        25       act to authorize the City of New York.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

         2       a home-rule message at the desk.

         3                  Read the last section.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         7       roll.

         8                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        11       is passed.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        13       1689, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 5418, an

        14       act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        16       last section.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        20       roll.

        21                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        24       is passed.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



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         1       1690, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5419A, an

         2       act to amend the Environmental Conservation

         3       Law.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

         5       last section.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         9       roll.

        10                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        15       1691, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 5491A,

        16       an act to amend the Education Law.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        18       last section.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect --

        21                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Lay it

        22       aside.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

        24       bill aside.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



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         1       1692, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5511, an

         2       act to authorize the reopening of an optional

         3       twenty-year retirement plan.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

         5       a home-rule message at the desk.

         6                  Read the last section.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        10       roll.

        11                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        16       Calendar Number 1693, Senator Bruno moves to

        17       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

        18       Assembly Bill Number 6214A and substitute it

        19       for the identical Senate Bill Number 5520A,

        20       Third Reading Calendar 1693.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

        22       Substitution ordered.

        23                  The Secretary will read.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        25       1693, by Member of the Assembly Oaks, Assembly



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         1       Print Number 6214A, an act to amend the Tax

         2       Law.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

         4       a local fiscal impact note at the desk.

         5                  Read the last section.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect on the first of July.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         9       roll.

        10                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.  Nays,

        12       1.  Senator Valesky recorded if the negative.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        16       1694, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 5534A,

        17       an act to amend the Social Services Law.

        18                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Lay it

        19       aside.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

        21       bill aside.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        23       1695, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print

        24       5576A, an act to amend the Environmental

        25       Conservation Law.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

         2       last section.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

         4       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         6       roll.

         7                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        10       is passed.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        12       Calendar Number 1696, Senator Leibell moves to

        13       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

        14       Assembly Bill Number 8476B and substitute it

        15       for the identical Senate Bill Number 5587A,

        16       Third Reading Calendar 1696.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

        18       Substitution ordered.

        19                  The Secretary will read.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        21       1696, by Member of the Assembly Towns,

        22       Assembly Print Number 8476B, an act to amend

        23       the Military Law.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        25       last section.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         4       roll.

         5                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         8       is passed.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        10       1697, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        11       Print Number 5617, an act to amend the Tax Law

        12       and others.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        14       last section.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 22.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        18       roll.

        19                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        22       is passed.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        24       1699, by Senator Little, Senate Print 5676, an

        25       act to authorize the Town of Tupper Lake in



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         1       the County of Franklin.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

         3       a home-rule message at the desk.

         4                  Read the last section.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         8       roll.

         9                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        12       is passed.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        14       1700, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 5677,

        15       an act to amend the Executive Law.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        17       last section.

        18                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Lay it

        19       aside.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

        21       bill aside.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        23       1705, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        24       Print Number 5691, an act to amend the Tax

        25       Law.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

         2       a local fiscal impact note at the desk.

         3                  Read the last section.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         7       roll.

         8                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.  Nays,

        10       1.  Senator Valesky recorded in the negative.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        12       is passed.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        14       1706, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        15       Print Number 5721, an act to amend the Tax

        16       Law.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        18       last section.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        22       roll.

        23                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill



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         1       is passed.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         3       1707, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 5738, an

         4       act to amend the Public Authorities Law.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

         6       last section.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        10       roll.

        11                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        14       is passed.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        16       1708, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5741,

        17       an act establishing the Town of East Hampton.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There is

        19       a home-rule message at the desk.

        20                  Read the last section.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 9.  This

        22       act shall take effect on the 60th day.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        24       roll.

        25                  (The Secretary called the roll.)



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

         3       is passed.

         4                  Senator Fuschillo, that completes

         5       the noncontroversial reading of the calendar.

         6                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

         7       President, will you please take up Calendar

         8       Number 1691, by Senator Flanagan.  It was

         9       inadvertently laid aside.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        11       Secretary will read Calendar 1691.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        13       1691, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 5491A,

        14       an act to amend the Education Law.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        16       last section.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        20       roll.

        21                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        24       is passed.

        25                  Senator Fuschillo.



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         1                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

         2       President, will you please read the

         3       controversial calendar.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

         5       Secretary will take up the controversial

         6       reading of the calendar.

         7                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

         8                  The Secretary will read.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        10       1674, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 4175,

        11       an act to amend the Penal Law and the Public

        12       Health Law.

        13                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:

        14       Explanation.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        16       Maltese, Senator Hassell-Thompson has

        17       requested an explanation of Calendar 1674.

        18                  SENATOR MALTESE:    Yes, Mr.

        19       President.  This bill concerns making a

        20       misdemeanor the knowingly and unlawfully

        21       possessing a hypodermic syringe or a

        22       hypodermic needle.

        23                  In addition, it changed the gender.

        24       The original legislation said "he."  It

        25       changed it, making it gender-neutral, to "such



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         1       person."

         2                  And this bill is the result of so

         3       many instances of people going into public

         4       places and having exposed needles and

         5       apparently getting -- criminally injecting

         6       others in these public places, surreptitiously

         7       and harmfully, and then worrying the recipient

         8       of the punctures that the needle might possess

         9       AIDS or some similar disease that could be

        10       transmitted by the needle.

        11                  In addition, it makes unlawful the

        12       possession in a public place of the hypodermic

        13       needle that is not safely capped.  It has some

        14       protections as far as possessing it for lawful

        15       purposes, and in addition renders as an

        16       affirmative defense to a prosecution, under

        17       that section, that the defense that the

        18       defendant's exposure of the hypodermic needle

        19       was both temporary and in conjunction with the

        20       necessary injection.

        21                  So if you have a person with

        22       diabetes and they're exposing the needle in a

        23       public place for the purposes of taking a dose

        24       of insulin or what have you, that is an

        25       exclusion under the bill.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

         2       Hassell-Thompson.

         3                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Okay,

         4       thank you, Mr. President.  Just quickly on the

         5       bill, because that was -- the last part of

         6       Senator Maltese's statement was, I guess, the

         7       bulk of my concern.  Because many persons who

         8       are diabetic who have to give themselves

         9       injections in public would be subject to this.

        10                  But I guess the question that I --

        11       if I have any to raise, would be, through you,

        12       Mr. President, is if they have to -- if --

        13       this bill says it's unlawful.  But you're

        14       saying that they are exempt.  And I'm trying

        15       to figure out if they have to go to court

        16       before they're exempt, or is an explanation to

        17       the police officer that may arrest them

        18       sufficient in this instance.  Because there's

        19       nothing in this bill that says that that

        20       exemption exists.

        21                  SENATOR MALTESE:    Through you,

        22       Mr. President, it would seem that a person

        23       that was in such a public place with the

        24       hypodermic needle injecting themselves, except

        25       for the actual injection, would have the



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         1       needle safely capped or both retractable and

         2       retracted or otherwise enclosed in a

         3       puncture-proof container.

         4                  I don't think that this bill is an

         5       invitation to police officers to arrest

         6       diabetics who are injecting themselves.  This

         7       is, as I've indicated, the result of persons

         8       unlawfully injecting others and subjecting

         9       them to unnecessary tests in connection with

        10       communicable diseases.

        11                  In response to your question,

        12       Senator, it does seem that the person, if

        13       arrested with an exposed needle and was unable

        14       to adequately explain themselves to a police

        15       officer, would have to use it as an

        16       affirmative defense.

        17                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    On the

        18       bill.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        20       Hassell-Thompson, on the bill.

        21                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:

        22       Therein lies my concern about this bill, which

        23       is why I will be voting no, because it puts

        24       the onus on the person in a court of law in

        25       order to prove themselves innocent.



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         1                  Thank you, Mr. President.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Any

         3       other Senator wish to be heard on the bill?

         4                  Debate is closed, then.

         5                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

         6       Members are asked to come to the chamber for a

         7       vote.

         8                  Read the last section.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

        10       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

        12       roll.

        13                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Announce

        15       the results.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

        17       the negative on Calendar Number 1674 are

        18       Senators Duane, Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger,

        19       Libous, Parker and Spano.

        20                  Those Senators absent from voting:

        21       Bonacic, Gonzalez and Winner.

        22                  Ayes, 51.  Nays, 6.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        24       is passed.

        25                  Senators, the chair is constrained



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         1       to make an observation.  We are adding about

         2       an hour to every calendar that we are going

         3       through to corral members back in to vote.

         4       And we're all going to grow old together if

         5       this continues.

         6                  So we would ask members, when we

         7       get to the controversial calendar, to please

         8       be in the chamber for the vote so that we can

         9       expedite passage of the bills that are

        10       remaining in the session.

        11                  The Secretary will continue to

        12       read.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        14       1679, by Senator Saland --

        15                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Lay it aside

        16       for the day, please.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

        18       bill aside for the day.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        20       1694, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 5534A,

        21       an act to amend the Social Services Law.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Read the

        23       last section.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        25       act shall take effect on the 120th day.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Call the

         2       roll.

         3                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Announce

         5       the results.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

         7       the negative on Calendar Number 1694:

         8       Senators Hassell-Thompson and Montgomery.

         9                  Those Senators absent from voting:

        10       Bonacic and Gonzalez.

        11                  Ayes, 56.  Nays, 2.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The bill

        13       is passed.

        14                  SENATOR CONNOR:    Point of order,

        15       Mr. President.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        17       Connor.

        18                  SENATOR CONNOR:    I heard no

        19       explanation requested on that bill.  Why does

        20       it remain controversial such that absents are

        21       recorded?

        22                  I know these are new rules; I've

        23       been here a long time.  If no one asks for an

        24       explanation on the controversial reading, the

        25       bill reverts to an uncontroversial status.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator,

         2       the bill --

         3                  SENATOR CONNOR:    It's laid aside

         4       for an explanation.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

         6       point of order is addressed to the chair.

         7                  SENATOR CONNOR:    Yes, Mr.

         8       President.

         9                  My point is, if no one requests an

        10       explanation, is not the bill no longer

        11       controversial?

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    No,

        13       Senator, the bill is laid aside and goes to

        14       the controversial calendar.

        15                  The Secretary will continue to

        16       read.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        18       1700, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print --

        19                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Lay it aside

        20       for the day, please.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Lay the

        22       bill aside for the day.

        23                  Senator Fuschillo, that completes

        24       this calendar.

        25                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.



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         1       President, there will be a meeting of the

         2       Rules Committee at 7:15 in the Majority

         3       Conference Room.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

         5       Rules Committee will meet at 7:15 in the

         6       Majority Conference Room.

         7                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Pending the

         8       receipt and acceptance of the report, the

         9       report will be for tomorrow's calendar.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        11       Senate will stand at ease, then, Senator?

        12                  Senator, could we complete some

        13       housekeeping?  We have a motion.

        14                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    If there's

        15       housekeeping at the desk, please take it up.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        17       Flanagan.

        18                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Thank you, Mr.

        19       President.

        20                  On behalf of Senator Libous, I

        21       request to call up Senate Bill 5688, recalled

        22       from the Assembly, which is now at the desk.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        24       Secretary will read.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



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         1       1630, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 5688, an

         2       act to amend the Education Law.

         3                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Mr. President,

         4       I now move to reconsider the vote by which the

         5       bill was passed.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

         7       Secretary will call the roll on

         8       reconsideration.

         9                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        11                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Mr. President,

        12       I now offer the following amendments.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        14       amendments are received and adopted.

        15                  Senator Fuschillo.

        16                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

        17       President, Senator Bruno, on behalf of Senator

        18       Paterson, hands up the following Minority

        19       leadership changes.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Those

        21       are received and will be recorded in the

        22       Journal.

        23                  The Senate stands at ease.

        24                  (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

        25       ease at 7:08 p.m.)



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         1                  (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

         2       at 7:26 p.m.)

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

         4       Fuschillo.

         5                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

         6       President, may we please return to reports of

         7       standing committees.  I believe there's a

         8       report of the Rules Committee at the desk.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Reports

        10       of standing committees.

        11                  The Secretary will read.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,

        13       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

        14       following bills:

        15                  Senate Print 843B, by Senator

        16       LaValle, an act to amend the Education Law;

        17                  1404A, by Senator Seward, an act to

        18       amend Chapter 668 of the Laws of 1977;

        19                  1936A, by Senator Golden, an act to

        20       amend the Public Health Law;

        21                  2522, by Senator Krueger, an act to

        22       authorize;

        23                  2543, by Senator Valesky, an act

        24       authorizing;

        25                  2828D, by Senator Flanagan, an act



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         1       to amend the Environmental Conservation Law;

         2                  2936, by Senator Little, an act to

         3       grant Richard F. Kelly;

         4                  3638, by Senator Robach, an act to

         5       amend Chapter 657 of the Laws of 2002;

         6                  4658, by Senator Padavan, an act to

         7       amend the Administrative Code of the City of

         8       New York;

         9                  5273, by Senator Winner, an act to

        10       amend the Highway Law;

        11                  5285, by Senator Wright, an act to

        12       amend the Tax Law;

        13                  5441, by Senator Nozzolio, an act

        14       to amend the Penal Law;

        15                  5471B, by Senator Bonacic, an act

        16       to amend Chapter 172 of the Laws of 2002;

        17                  5540A, by Senator Volker, an act to

        18       amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law;

        19                  5543A, by Senator Alesi, an act to

        20       amend the Correction Law;

        21                  5614, by Senator Wright, an act to

        22       amend the Energy Law;

        23                  5640, by Senator Nozzolio, an act

        24       to amend the Correction Law;

        25                  5652, by Senator Spano, an act to



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         1       amend Chapter 57 of the Laws of 2005;

         2                  5689, by Senator Little, an act to

         3       amend the Correction Law;

         4                  5694, by Senator Padavan, an act to

         5       amend the General City Law;

         6                  5698, by Senator Fuschillo, an act

         7       to amend the Penal Law;

         8                  5713, by Senator LaValle, an act to

         9       amend the Public Health Law;

        10                  5716, by Senator Robach, an act to

        11       amend the Education Law;

        12                  5722, by Senator Larkin, an act to

        13       amend the Civil Service Law;

        14                  5727, by Senator DeFrancisco, an

        15       act in relation to the initial phase of

        16       reconstruction;

        17                  5742, by Senator Winner, an act to

        18       amend the Agriculture and Markets Law;

        19                  5747, by Senator Spano, an act to

        20       amend the Public Authorities Law;

        21                  5751, by Senator Meier, an act to

        22       amend the Highway Law;

        23                  5753A, by Senator Skelos, an act to

        24       amend the Correction Law;

        25                  5756, by Senator Golden, an act to



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         1       amend the Elder Law;

         2                  5760, by Senator Young, an act to

         3       amend the Highway Law;

         4                  5771, by Senator Spano, an act to

         5       amend the Arts and Cultural Affairs Law;

         6                  5788, by Senator Golden, an act to

         7       amend the Tax Law;

         8                  5799, by Senator Marcellino, an act

         9       to amend the Military Law;

        10                  5800, by Senator Young, an act to

        11       amend the Highway Law;

        12                  And Senate Print 5887, by Senator

        13       Flanagan, an act to amend the Labor Law.

        14                  All bills ordered direct to third

        15       reading.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Senator

        17       Fuschillo.

        18                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Move to

        19       accept the report of the Rules Committee.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    All

        21       those in favor of accepting the report of

        22       Rules Committee signify by saying aye.

        23                  (Response of "Aye.")

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Those

        25       opposed, nay.



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         1                  (No response.)

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

         3       report of the Rules Committee is accepted by a

         4       wide margin.

         5                  Senator Fuschillo.

         6                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

         7       President, is there any other business at the

         8       desk?

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    No,

        10       there is not.

        11                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    If we could

        12       return to motions and resolutions and

        13       recognize Senator Robach.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    Motions

        15       and resolutions.

        16                  Senator Robach.

        17                  SENATOR ROBACH:    Yes, Mr.

        18       President.  On behalf of Senator Spano, on

        19       page 25, I offer the following amendments to

        20       Calendar Number 774, Senate Print Number

        21       3906A, and ask that the said bill retain its

        22       place on Third Reading Calendar.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    The

        24       amendments are received and adopted, and the

        25       bill will retain its place on the order of



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         1       third reading.

         2                  Senator Fuschillo.

         3                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

         4       President, I'd like to announce that there

         5       will be a Majority conference tomorrow morning

         6       at 10:30 a.m. in the Majority Conference Room.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    There

         8       will be a 10:30 a.m. Majority conference

         9       tomorrow morning.

        10                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I'd like

        11       to thank Senator Fuschillo for his fine work

        12       here today.

        13                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you,

        14       Senator.

        15                  Mr. President, is there any other

        16       housekeeping at the desk?

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    No,

        18       there is not.

        19                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Any members

        20       have any other business that they'd like to

        21       discuss here?

        22                  Mr. President, there being no

        23       further business to come before the Senate, I

        24       move we adjourn until Wednesday, June 22nd, at

        25       11:00 a.m.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:    On

         2       motion, the Senate stands adjourned until

         3       Wednesday, June 22nd, at 11:00 a.m.

         4                  (Whereupon, at 7:32 p.m., the

         5       Senate adjourned.)

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