Regular Session - September 20, 2005
6017
1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
2
3
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
5
6
7
8
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 September 20, 2005
11 4:00 p.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
15
16
17
18 LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President
19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
3 please come to order.
4 I ask everyone present to please
5 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of
6 Allegiance.
7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited
8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
9 THE PRESIDENT: In the absence of
10 clergy, may we bow our heads in a moment of
11 silence, please.
12 (Whereupon, the assemblage
13 respected a moment of silence.)
14 THE PRESIDENT: Reading of the
15 Journal.
16 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
17 Monday, September 19, the Senate met pursuant
18 to adjournment. The Journal of Sunday,
19 September 18, was read and approved. On
20 motion, Senate adjourned.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Without
22 objection, the Journal stands approved as
23 read.
24 Presentation of petitions.
25 Messages from the Assembly.
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1 Messages from the Governor.
2 Reports of standing committees.
3 Reports of select committees.
4 Communications and reports from
5 state officers.
6 Motions and resolutions.
7 Senator Fuschillo.
8 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Madam
9 President, may we please adopt the Resolution
10 Calendar, with the exception of Resolution
11 2764.
12 THE PRESIDENT: All in favor of
13 so adopting the Resolution Calendar please
14 signify by saying aye.
15 (Response of "Aye.")
16 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
17 (No response.)
18 THE PRESIDENT: The Resolution
19 Calendar is so adopted.
20 Senator Fuschillo.
21 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,
22 Madam President. There's a Resolution 2764 at
23 the desk, by Senator Hannon. May we please
24 have it read in its entirety and move for its
25 immediate adoption.
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1 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
2 will read.
3 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
4 Hannon, Legislative Resolution memorializing
5 Governor George E. Pataki to proclaim
6 November 2005 as Lung Cancer Awareness Month.
7 "WHEREAS, Medical research is vital
8 to the current health care needs of all
9 citizens, and contributes to the advancement
10 of future medical breakthroughs; and
11 "WHEREAS, In its early stages, lung
12 cancer usually does not cause symptoms. When
13 symptoms occur, the cancer is often advanced;
14 and
15 "WHEREAS, Symptoms of lung cancer
16 include chronic cough, hoarseness, coughing up
17 blood, weight loss and loss of appetite,
18 shortness of breath, fever without a known
19 reason, wheezing, repeated bouts of bronchitis
20 or pneumonia and chest pains; and
21 "WHEREAS, Smoking is one of the
22 main contributors to lung cancer, with more
23 than 87 percent of all lung cancer attributed
24 to smoking tobacco. The more time and
25 quantity you smoke, the greater your risk of
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1 lung cancer. But if you stop smoking, the
2 risk of lung cancer decreases each year as
3 normal replace abnormal cells; and
4 "WHEREAS, After ten years, the risk
5 drops to a level that is one-third to one-half
6 of the risk for people who continue to smoke.
7 In addition, quitting smoking greatly reduces
8 the risk of developing other smoking-related
9 diseases, such as heart disease, stroke,
10 emphysema and chronic bronchitis; and
11 "WHEREAS, Radon is considered to be
12 the second leading cause of lung cancer in the
13 United States today. Radon gas can come up
14 through the soil under a home or building and
15 enter through gaps and cracks in the
16 foundation or insulation, as well as through
17 pipes, drains, walls or other openings; and
18 "WHEREAS, Radon causes between
19 15,000 and 22,000 lung cancer deaths each year
20 in the United States -- 12 percent of all lung
21 cancer deaths are linked to radon; and
22 "WHEREAS, Another leading cause of
23 lung cancer is on-the-job exposure to
24 cancer-causing substances or carcinogens.
25 Asbestos is a well-known, work-related
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1 substance that can cause lung cancer, but
2 there are many others, including uranium,
3 arsenic, and certain petroleum products; and
4 "WHEREAS, Peter Jennings, a
5 New York City resident and veteran newsman of
6 ABC 'World News Tonight,' died on Sunday,
7 August 7, 2005, some four months after he
8 announced on the air that he had been
9 diagnosed with lung cancer; and
10 "WHEREAS, Each year, nearly
11 1.4 million people are diagnosed with cancer,
12 and approximately 600,000 will perish from it.
13 Though there are many types of cancer, none
14 causes as much devastation as cancer of the
15 lung. In 2005, the American Cancer Society
16 estimates that 172,570 people will be
17 diagnosed with lung cancer in the United
18 States: 93,010 men and 79,560 women; and
19 "WHEREAS, Despite these staggering
20 numbers, lung cancer receives insufficient
21 awareness and attention from the research
22 community. It is imperative for our society
23 to concentrate on this particular matter; and
24 "WHEREAS, about 85 percent of lung
25 cancer cases are diagnosed in later stages of
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1 the disease. If detected early, research
2 shows that the five-year survival rates could
3 reach 80 percent; and
4 "WHEREAS, This Legislative Body
5 urges all residents of New York State to make
6 themselves more aware of the risk of lung
7 cancer and to take measures to minimize those
8 risks in an effort to promote better health
9 and reduce the incidence of lung cancer; now,
10 therefore, be it
11 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative
12 Body pause in its deliberations to memorialize
13 Governor George E. Pataki to proclaim
14 November 2005 as Lung Cancer Awareness Month
15 in the State of New York; and be it further
16 "RESOLVED, That a copy of this
17 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
18 to The Honorable George E. Pataki, Governor of
19 the State of New York."
20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hannon.
21 SENATOR HANNON: Madam President,
22 I just wanted to say that this resolution
23 about memorializing the Governor to proclaim
24 November as Lung Cancer Awareness Month is
25 very important and we'd like to open this up
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1 to cosponsorship by any of the other Senators.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Any Senator who
3 does not wish to cosponsor this resolution,
4 please notify the desk.
5 All in favor of the resolution
6 please signify by saying aye.
7 (Response of "Aye.")
8 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
9 (No response.)
10 THE PRESIDENT: The resolution is
11 adopted.
12 Senator Fuschillo.
13 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Madam
14 President, there is another resolution at the
15 desk, 2920, by Senator Paterson. May we
16 please have it read in its entirety and move
17 for its immediate adoption.
18 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
19 will read.
20 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
21 Paterson, Legislative Resolution Number 2920,
22 mourning the death of Sandra Feldman, former
23 president of the American Federation of
24 Teachers and nationally renowned union leader.
25 "WHEREAS, Sandra Feldman, president
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1 of the American Federation of Teachers from
2 1997 to 2004, was recognized nationally as an
3 ardent and passionate leader of a national
4 union; and
5 "WHEREAS, Sandra Feldman's election
6 as AFT president followed a distinguished
7 30-year career with the United Federation of
8 Teachers as the 11-year president of this
9 New York City 110,000-member local; and
10 "WHEREAS, Sandra Feldman was a
11 tireless advocate for children, public
12 education and the labor movement, and a
13 powerful voice for the 1.3 million educators,
14 healthcare professionals, public employees and
15 retirees represented by the AFT, the nation's
16 second largest union; and
17 "WHEREAS, Sandra Feldman was a
18 nationally recognized champion of high
19 academic standards, rigorous teacher training,
20 universal preschool for young children and
21 extended kindergarten for disadvantaged
22 youngsters, redesigning schools for academic
23 improvement and research-backed programs to
24 raise student achievement; and
25 "WHEREAS, Sandra Feldman worked
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1 with members of Congress and federal education
2 officials to write the education law known as
3 'No Child Left Behind,' which imposed stricter
4 performance standards on all schools receiving
5 federal aid; and
6 "WHEREAS, Sandra Feldman worked to
7 increase federal and state spending for
8 programs for young children in a program
9 called 'Kindergarten Plus'; and
10 "WHEREAS, Sandra Feldman, popularly
11 known as 'Sandy,' was an effective advocate
12 for the rights and concerns of nurses and
13 healthcare professionals, working to bring
14 public attention to the national nursing
15 shortage, patient rights and adequate staffing
16 levels in healthcare facilities; and
17 "WHEREAS, Sandra Feldman has been
18 in the forefront of efforts in Congress and in
19 state legislatures to support pro-education,
20 pro-worker measures, and adequate funding and
21 resources for pre-K through 12 and higher
22 education and public services; and
23 "WHEREAS, Continuing her history of
24 advocacy for civil rights and social justice
25 that began in the 1960s as an activist in the
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1 Freedom Rides and in the 1963 March on
2 Washington for Jobs and Freedom, Sandra
3 Feldman spoke out against all forms of
4 discrimination; and
5 "WHEREAS, Sandra Feldman, aptly
6 described as a 'visionary,' was born of humble
7 means and grew up in a poor working-class
8 neighborhood in Brooklyn, New York. She was
9 the daughter of a milkman and a sickly woman
10 who worked part-time in a bakery. She
11 attended James Madison High School and studied
12 English at Brooklyn College, where she
13 immersed herself in socialist politics and
14 civil rights activities; and
15 "WHEREAS, Sandra Feldman was a
16 leading voice in the national and
17 international labor movement as a member of
18 the AFL-CIO Executive Council and a vice
19 president of Education International,
20 highlighting the needs of working
21 professionals and promoting universal
22 education for all children throughout the
23 world; and
24 "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this
25 Legislative Body to pay tribute to the lives
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1 of those esteemed individuals of national
2 renown who distinguished themselves through
3 their life's work; now, therefore, be it
4 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative
5 Body pause in its deliberations to mourn the
6 September 18, 2005, death of our friend and
7 ally, labor leader Sandra Feldman, and be it
8 further
9 "RESOLVED, That a copy of this
10 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
11 to the family of Sandra Feldman."
12 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Paterson.
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you,
14 Madam President.
15 Sadly, I stand before you, Madam
16 President, to mourn the death of Sandra
17 Feldman, born in 1939, who died yesterday
18 morning at 5:30, succumbing to cancer. After
19 two or three successful fights, she was unable
20 to stave off the last wave of cancer that
21 claimed her body.
22 Sandra Feldman's distinct career
23 started with her political participation when
24 she was a student at James Madison High
25 School. In her early twenties, she marched in
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1 the famous Freedom Rides in the South, was
2 arrested twice in civil disobedience, fighting
3 for the rights of people who lived a long way
4 from where she lived, although she was raised
5 in a poor family in Brooklyn, New York.
6 Sandra went on to become the head
7 of the United Federation of Teachers for
8 11 years, and then for 25 years head of the
9 American Federation of Teachers, succeeding
10 the late and very great Albert Shanker.
11 She was someone, to those of us who
12 knew her very well -- and I knew her extremely
13 well -- always thinking, always participating,
14 always trying to find a way to make the world
15 a better place.
16 There are a lot of very effective
17 union leaders, but very few great ones. And
18 as is in the case of greatness, it always
19 involves some sort of acceleration to the
20 needs of others, away from the personal
21 interests of oneself or of the collective
22 interests of those they serve.
23 In 1988, Sandra Feldman, at the
24 time head of the United Federation of
25 Teachers, agreed without any resistance to
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1 setting up the Schools Under Registration
2 Review, the SURR schools, even though it
3 required the transfer of many teachers in the
4 New York City public school system. Didn't
5 always make her popular in the beginning for
6 taking a stand like this, but the entire union
7 came around this process and helped improve
8 the education conditions for the 1.1 million
9 schoolchildren of New York City.
10 It was activities such as that,
11 time and time again, that made Sandra
12 distinguished and made her the very great
13 person who we memorialize and celebrate today.
14 It's sad that we would not be able
15 to get the benefit of her wisdom, her
16 thinking. But there was no one more dynamic,
17 more articulate, more persuasive, more
18 courageous, and more outspoken when an issue
19 needed to be addressed.
20 And so I'd like to open the
21 resolution to all of my colleagues on both
22 sides of the aisle, where she was respected on
23 both sides of the aisle and in every
24 neighborhood she ever visited and in every
25 place they ever heard about her. It is in
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1 that spirit that I thank you for the time to
2 reflect on one of my dear friends, and who
3 would have been one of yours had you known her
4 better.
5 Thank you, Madam President.
6 THE PRESIDENT: Any member who
7 does not wish to cosponsor the pending
8 resolution, please notify the desk.
9 Senator Stavisky.
10 SENATOR STAVISKY: Madam
11 President, I thank Senator Paterson for
12 sponsoring this resolution. And I too knew
13 Sandy Feldman, as well as her predecessor, Al
14 Shanker. And they exemplified everything
15 that's good in the trade union movement, but
16 also everything that is good in education.
17 Sandy Feldman grew up in poverty,
18 and she rose to become the national president
19 of a major labor organization. But she wanted
20 today's children to have the same
21 opportunities that she had growing up, that
22 education was the passport out of poverty.
23 And I too mourn the passing of Sandy Feldman.
24 Thank you.
25 THE PRESIDENT: All in favor of
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1 the resolution please signify by saying aye.
2 (Response of "Aye.")
3 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
4 (No response.)
5 THE PRESIDENT: The resolution is
6 adopted.
7 Senator Fuschillo.
8 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Madam
9 President, there's a resolution at the desk,
10 2918, by Senator Golden and by Senator Trunzo.
11 May we please have it read in its entirety and
12 move for its immediate adoption.
13 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
14 will now read Resolution 2918.
15 THE SECRETARY: By Senators
16 Golden and Trunzo, Legislative Resolution
17 Number 2918, urging the New York State
18 Congressional Delegation to focus its efforts
19 to increase the amount of contingency funding
20 available for LIHEAP.
21 "WHEREAS, The federally funded
22 Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program
23 (LIHEAP) allows New York State to help our
24 most vulnerable population, eligible
25 low-income and elderly residents, with their
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1 home energy bills; and
2 "WHEREAS, As a result of the
3 increasing home heating fuel costs, New York
4 State residents are again expected to be
5 confronted with significant increases in
6 energy costs this heating season, thereby
7 putting a drain on family budgets; and
8 "WHEREAS, Current estimates project
9 substantial increases in fuel costs from last
10 winter, which was one of the most costly
11 heating seasons on record; and
12 "WHEREAS, According to the New York
13 State Energy Research and Development
14 Authority, the statewide weekly average price
15 of home heating oil rose from $1.76 per gallon
16 one year ago to $2.72 per gallon last week, an
17 increase of 54 percent; and
18 "WHEREAS, Natural gas costs are
19 also expected to show similar increases; and
20 "WHEREAS, Last year, New York State
21 received $236 million in LIHEAP and
22 $42.3 million from contingency funds, for a
23 2004-2005 total of $278.3 million, thus
24 allowing New York to provide 969,662 benefits;
25 and
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1 "WHEREAS, Based on projections, if
2 the national formula remains at $1.8 billion,
3 New York's share would be $224 million, then
4 New York would need $54 million to stay at
5 2004-2005 levels; and
6 "WHEREAS, Without an immediate
7 increase in the contingency funding for
8 LIHEAP, our ability to provide adequate
9 support to the many eligible seniors and
10 low-income families that need government
11 assistance for something as basic as staying
12 warm will be jeopardized; now, therefore, be
13 it
14 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative
15 Body pause in its deliberations to urge the
16 New York State Congressional Delegation to
17 focus its efforts to increase the amount of
18 contingency funding available for LIHEAP; and
19 be it further
20 "RESOLVED, That copies of this
21 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
22 to each member of the New York State
23 Congressional Delegation."
24 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Golden.
25 SENATOR GOLDEN: Thank you, Madam
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1 President.
2 I rise on this resolution to speak
3 and ask that those who would like to go on
4 this resolution, that it's opened up to all,
5 and that the resolution be presented to the
6 federal government, to our Congressional
7 delegation, and that we be allowed, for the
8 $1.8 billion that is allocated for HEAP that
9 has been steady for the past two years, that
10 that be increased.
11 We've put packages forward today
12 for those that drive their cars, for gasoline,
13 and the prices are off the chart. We're doing
14 the same for home heating oil for our seniors
15 in the State of New York. We need to do more
16 for the population of the eligible low-income
17 family and that senior that needs those
18 dollars to be able to get through this winter.
19 We've seen the prices of heating
20 oil from last year, from $1.76 to $2.72 per
21 gallon. We see oil going up 35 percent this
22 year and natural gas up 71 percent this year.
23 We would ask that this resolution be moved
24 forward, that our delegation proposes that the
25 HEAP allocation be increased.
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1 And if we were just to do the
2 2004-2005 to maintain status dollars for those
3 programs, it would be 54 additional million
4 dollars that we would need.
5 So I would hope that the federal
6 government, our president and Congressional
7 delegation will in fact pass this resolution
8 and give due relief to the residents here,
9 low-income residents here in the state of
10 New York.
11 Thank you, Madam President.
12 THE PRESIDENT: On the
13 resolution, all in favor of the resolution
14 please signify by saying aye.
15 (Response of "Aye.")
16 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
17 (No response.)
18 THE PRESIDENT: The resolution is
19 adopted.
20 Senator Fuschillo.
21 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Madam
22 President, will you please recognize Senator
23 Krueger.
24 THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Senator
25 Krueger.
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1 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you.
2 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
3 Madam President.
4 I rise to speak on a resolution we
5 passed as part of the calendar a few minutes
6 earlier. It was a resolution also urging the
7 Congressional delegation of our state to
8 institute policies which will reduce the
9 country's dependence on oil.
10 The fact is that we are here to
11 deal with energy and the costs of energy
12 today. And like Senator Golden, I recognize
13 that much of what needs to be done needs to be
14 done at the federal level.
15 And so in addition to the proposals
16 to urge our federal government to expand the
17 funding for the LIHEAP program, which is
18 desperately needed, in the resolution that we
19 just passed a few minutes earlier as part of
20 our calendar we also address in this
21 resolution, quite a few of my Senate
22 Democratic colleagues -- and I'm happy to open
23 this up to all of the house for
24 cosponsorship -- we're also urging the federal
25 government to address the fundamental issue of
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1 our dependence on foreign oil, which is a
2 danger to the security of our state and
3 nation, by finally doing a laundry list of
4 work that needs to be done to protect all of
5 us, in all fifty states, at the federal level.
6 The fact is that our oil and gas
7 industry is so uncompetitive and highly
8 concentrated that in the United States more
9 than half of all oil-refining capacity and
10 62 percent of the retail gas market is
11 controlled by five companies. And these costs
12 have been skyrocketing long before Hurricane
13 Katrina sent our prices even higher. And in
14 fact, we estimate that the cost of heating oil
15 this winter could be as high as 31 percent
16 higher than last year.
17 We need our federal government to
18 reverse itself on several of the actions it
19 took in its new federal energy bill, which
20 provided tens of billions of dollars in
21 additional subsidies and tax breaks to oil,
22 gas, coal, nuclear industry, rather than
23 expanding our efforts to support investment in
24 research and development for alternative
25 sources of energy, including wind, solar,
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1 geothermal, biomass.
2 We need our federal government,
3 instead of continuing to subsidize the oil and
4 gas industry, to create federal renewable
5 portfolio standards that require electricity
6 providers to include a minimum level of
7 clean-energy resources in the electricity mix
8 that they deliver to consumers. We need our
9 federal government to expand our renewable
10 energy production credit to make renewable
11 energy cost-competitive for consumers.
12 We need to introduce greater
13 energy-efficiency standards for appliances at
14 the national level. We need to end tax breaks
15 and subsidies for nonrenewable energy sources.
16 We need to have a federal government that will
17 require an increased mile-per-gallon standard
18 for all vehicles.
19 We need to ensure that American
20 consumers do not continue to be dependent on
21 foreign oil or be fearful that our
22 international policies or our national
23 security is in the hands of the same companies
24 that determine the prices we pay for both our
25 gas and our home heating oil. We need to
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1 ensure that the federal government
2 substantially increases funding for public
3 transportation and encourages smart growth.
4 And again, my resolution also calls
5 for the federal government to expand the
6 funding for the Low-Income Home Energy
7 Assistance Program, which has been the most
8 effective program at the federal level to help
9 supplement the high cost of energy for
10 low-income people throughout this country.
11 But last year we ran out of money by May 27th
12 and had to start turning people away.
13 So I want to thank my colleagues
14 for their support in this resolution for
15 continuing not only our work here in Albany
16 today, but ensuring that the federal
17 government and our delegation to Congress
18 recognizes that a great deal of the work that
19 needs to be done to ensure we truly address
20 long-term and substantive energy problems for
21 the people of the State of New York is
22 dependent on whether our colleagues in
23 Washington follow through on a list of issues
24 that they so far have not seen fit to take
25 seriously.
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1 Thank you, Madam President.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator
3 Fuschillo.
4 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Madam
5 President, there will be an immediate meeting
6 of the Rules Committee in the Majority
7 Conference Room. And the Senate will stand at
8 ease.
9 THE PRESIDENT: There will be an
10 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in
11 the Majority Conference Room.
12 The Senate stands at ease.
13 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
14 ease at 4:27 p.m.)
15 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened
16 at 4:42 p.m.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
18 Fuschillo.
19 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
20 President, may we please return to reports of
21 standing committees. I believe there's a
22 report of the Rules Committee at the desk.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Reports
24 of standing committees.
25 The Secretary will read.
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1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
2 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
3 following bills:
4 Assembly Print 8834, by the
5 Assembly Committee on Rules, an act to amend
6 the Tax Law;
7 Assembly Print 7059, by Member of
8 the Assembly Abbate, an act to amend the
9 Retirement and Social Security Law;
10 Assembly Print 3163, by Member of
11 the Assembly John, an act to amend the
12 Workers' Compensation Law;
13 Senate Print 5846A, by Senator
14 Wright, an act to amend the Tax Law;
15 2829A, by Senator Flanagan, an act
16 to amend the Economic Development Law;
17 5155, by Senator Breslin, an act to
18 amend Chapter 672 of the Laws of 1993,
19 amending the Public Authorities Law;
20 5452, by Senator Bruno, an act to
21 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;
22 5763A, by Senator Marcellino, an
23 act to amend the Tax Law;
24 5965, by Senator Spano, an act to
25 amend the Tax Law;
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1 5966, by Senator Flanagan, an act
2 to amend the Real Property Tax Law;
3 5967, by Senator Winner, an act to
4 amend the Tax Law;
5 5968, by Senator Robach, an act to
6 amend the Tax Law;
7 5969, by Senator Marcellino, an act
8 to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law;
9 And Senate Print 5970, by Senator
10 Hannon, an act to amend the Tax Law.
11 All bills ordered direct to third
12 reading.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
14 Fuschillo.
15 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Move to
16 accept the report of the committee.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: All in
18 favor of accepting the report of the Rules
19 Committee signify by saying aye.
20 (Response of "Aye.")
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those
22 opposed, nay.
23 (No response.)
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
25 report of the Rules Committee is accepted.
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1 Senator Fuschillo.
2 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Can we please
3 have the reading of the noncontroversial
4 calendar.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
6 Secretary will conduct the noncontroversial
7 reading of the calendar.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 515, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,
10 Assembly Print Number 8834, an act to amend
11 the Tax Law and the State Finance Law.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
13 last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 50.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
21 is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
23 Calendar Number 515, the vote is ayes, 60.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
25 is passed.
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1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1143, by Member of the Assembly John, Assembly
3 Print Number 3163, an act to amend the
4 Workers' Compensation Law.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
6 last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
14 is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1845, by Senator Wright, Senate Print --
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
19 bill aside.
20 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
21 Calendar Number 1991, Senator Flanagan moves
22 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
23 Assembly Bill Number 8506 and substitute it
24 for the identical Senate Bill Number 2829A,
25 Third Reading Calendar 1991.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
2 Substitution ordered.
3 The Secretary will read.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1991, by Member of the Assembly Weprin,
6 Assembly Print Number 8506, an act to amend
7 the Economic Development Law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
9 last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
17 is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
19 Calendar Number 1992, Senator Breslin moves to
20 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
21 Assembly Bill Number 7465 and substitute it
22 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5155,
23 Third Reading Calendar 1992.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
25 Substitution ordered.
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1 The Secretary will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1992, by Member of the Assembly McEneny,
4 Assembly Print Number 7465, an act to amend
5 Chapter 672 of the Laws of 1993, amending the
6 Public Authorities Law.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
8 last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
12 roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
16 is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
18 Calendar Number 1993, Senator Bruno moves to
19 discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
20 Assembly Bill Number 5437 and substitute it
21 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5452,
22 Third Reading Calendar 1993.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:
24 Substitution ordered.
25 The Secretary will read.
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1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1993, by Member of the Assembly Canestrari,
3 Assembly Print Number 5437, an act to amend
4 the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is
6 a home-rule message at the desk.
7 Read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
14 Breslin.
15 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you, Mr.
16 President.
17 I intend to vote for this
18 legislation, as the City of Rensselaer
19 deserves a parking permit in and around the
20 railroad station. They have a home-rule
21 message. Just as we've approved parking
22 permits in Rochester, Rye, Pelham, Auburn,
23 Tarrytown, and a host of other locations.
24 I've also had legislation in since
25 1998, 1999, and up to the present, looking for
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1 parking permits so the homeowners in and
2 around the Capitol and the Legislative Office
3 Building can enjoy a quality of life. So I
4 look forward to the time when the citizens of
5 Albany can enjoy those same kinds of
6 restrictions as this bill will provide to the
7 City of Rensselaer.
8 I vote in the affirmative.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
10 Breslin will be recorded in the affirmative.
11 Announce the results.
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
14 is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1081, by Member of the Assembly Abbate,
17 Assembly Print Number 7059, an act to amend
18 the Retirement and Social Security Law.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
20 last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
24 roll.
25 (The Secretary called the roll.)
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1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
3 is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1994, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print --
6 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
8 bill aside.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1995, by Senator Spano --
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay that
12 aside.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
14 bill aside.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1996, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print Number
17 5966, an act to amend the Real Property Tax
18 Law.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
20 last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
24 roll.
25 (The Secretary called the roll.)
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1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
3 is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1997, by Senator Winner, Senate Print 5967, an
6 act to amend the Tax Law.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
8 last section.
9 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
11 bill aside.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1998, by Senator Robach, Senate Print Number
14 5968, an act to amend the Tax Law.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the
16 last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
18 act --
19 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
21 bill aside.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1999, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print
24 5969, an act to amend --
25 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the
2 bill aside.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 2000, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print Number
5 5970, an act to amend the Tax Law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is
7 a local fiscal impact note at the desk.
8 Read the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 12. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the
12 roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill
16 is passed.
17 Senator Bruno, that completes the
18 noncontroversial reading of the calendar.
19 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
20 can we at this time return to motions and
21 resolutions.
22 I believe I have a resolution at
23 the desk, Number 2904. I would ask that at
24 this time it be read in its entirety and move
25 for its immediate adoption.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Motions
2 and resolutions.
3 The Secretary will read.
4 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Bruno,
5 Legislative Resolution Number 2904, sending
6 deepest condolences to the victims of
7 Hurricane Katrina and expressing solidarity
8 with all individuals and organizations
9 involved in the ongoing rescue and recovery
10 efforts in the Southeastern United States.
11 "WHEREAS, The human toll resulting
12 from the devastating, cataclysmic events of
13 Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath will alter
14 the course of the lives of countless families
15 and require the efforts and support of
16 Americans from across the United States to
17 ensure the restoration of stability to all of
18 the regions affected by the storm; and
19 "WHEREAS, This Legislative Body is
20 deeply moved to send the deepest heartfelt
21 condolences of the people of the State of
22 New York to the victims of Hurricane Katrina
23 and to express solidarity with all of the
24 individuals and organizations involved in the
25 ongoing rescue and recovery efforts in the
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1 Southeastern United States; and
2 "WHEREAS, The coordinated efforts
3 of state and federal governments in
4 transporting hundreds of thousands of
5 individuals to dry land has made evident the
6 enormous challenge of ensuring that the
7 displaced victims of Hurricane Katrina are
8 provided the basic necessities of life in
9 order to start their lives over again; and
10 "WHEREAS, The members of the
11 New York State Senate collectively recognize
12 the compassion of the individuals and
13 organizations from the State of New York who
14 have volunteered their efforts to help the
15 victims of Hurricane Katrina; and
16 "WHEREAS, This Legislative Body
17 commends the efforts of all those involved in
18 the rescue and recovery, including the efforts
19 of the SEMO (State Emergency Management
20 Office), and the members of the National Guard
21 from the State of New York, who have been and
22 continue to be integral in restoring power and
23 water to the affected areas, and in helping
24 out in any aspect, bringing normalcy back to
25 the lives of the victims; and
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1 "WHEREAS, Furthermore, this
2 Legislative Body recognizes the generosity and
3 humanitarianism of the many New York families
4 who have opened their doors to people
5 displaced in the aftermath of the storm, as
6 well as the universities and colleges that
7 have opened their academic doors to students
8 from the affected states; and
9 "WHEREAS, In addition to the human
10 toll, Hurricane Katrina has resulted in
11 extensive economic damage across the affected
12 regions, the complete destruction of whole
13 cities, towns and neighborhoods, private and
14 public property, and countless businesses; and
15 "WHEREAS, This natural disaster is
16 one of the worst in our nation's history,
17 requiring a widespread need for food,
18 supplies, tools, equipment, medicine, health
19 care, law enforcement personnel, security
20 services, public utility services, sanitation
21 and waste disposal, cleanup of debris,
22 property restoration and reconstruction; and
23 "WHEREAS, The destruction of
24 historic neighborhoods and towns, where so
25 much of the very story of America has been
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1 written through the fusion of various cultures
2 and traditions as people made their lives in
3 those areas for generations, is a wound that
4 all Americans will suffer for years as a
5 result of this catastrophe; and
6 "WHEREAS, This Legislative Body
7 recognizes the magnitude of this ongoing
8 national tragedy, and with these words sends
9 the message to all victims of Hurricane
10 Katrina that the people of this great Empire
11 State relate to the suffering that others
12 endure in times of such devastation and
13 recovery, and will remain steadfast in unity
14 with them for as long as it takes to reunite
15 their families, restore hope to their lives,
16 and secure their future; now, therefore, be it
17 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative
18 Body pause in its deliberations to send the
19 deepest heartfelt condolences of the people of
20 the State of New York to the victims of
21 Hurricane Katrina, and to express solidarity
22 with all of the individuals and organizations
23 involved in the ongoing rescue and recovery
24 efforts in the Southeastern United States."
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator
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1 Bruno.
2 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
3 can we follow the normal custom of the house
4 and open this resolution up to all members in
5 the chamber.
6 And anyone that would prefer not to
7 be on it, would you please just let the desk
8 know.
9 Thank you, Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those
11 members wishing not to be the resolution
12 inform the desk.
13 All those in favor of the
14 resolution signify by saying aye.
15 (Response of "Aye.")
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those
17 opposed, nay.
18 (No response.)
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
20 resolution is adopted.
21 Senator Bruno.
22 SENATOR BRUNO: And, Mr.
23 President, I believe I have another resolution
24 at the desk, 2921. I would ask that it also
25 be read in its entirety and move for its
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1 immediate adoption.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The
3 Secretary will read.
4 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Bruno,
5 Legislative Resolution Number 2921, paying
6 tribute to the life and accomplishments of
7 Simon Wiesenthal, internationally renowned
8 Holocaust survivor.
9 "WHEREAS, This Legislative Body is
10 moved to recognize and pay tribute to the life
11 and accomplishments of Simon Wiesenthal for
12 the courage and fortitude he displayed
13 throughout his life; and
14 "WHEREAS, With his tremendous pride
15 for his heritage, and his ceaseless work
16 against hate and prejudice, Simon Wiesenthal
17 benefited the world in immeasurable ways; and
18 "WHEREAS, A survivor of five Nazi
19 death camps, Simon Wiesenthal died on Tuesday,
20 September 20, 2005, at the remarkable age of
21 96, in Vienna, Austria; and
22 "WHEREAS, After being liberated
23 from the Mauthausen death camp in May 1945,
24 Simon Wiesenthal dedicated his life to
25 tracking down Nazi war criminals and to being
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1 a voice for the 6 million Jews who died during
2 the onslaught. Between Simon and his wife,
3 Cyla, they lost 89 relatives in the Holocaust;
4 and
5 "WHEREAS, Through his work, Simon
6 Wiesenthal brought to justice some 1,100 Nazi
7 war criminals, including one-time SS leader
8 Adolf Eichmann and the policeman who arrested
9 Anne Frank; and
10 "WHEREAS, In addition, Simon
11 Wiesenthal spent more than 50 years speaking
12 out against neo-Nazism and racism, and
13 remembering the Jewish experience as a lesson
14 for humanity; and
15 "WHEREAS, Simon Wiesenthal was the
16 recipient of numerous awards, including
17 Austria's Golden Decoration of Merit, which
18 was presented by President Heinz Fischer in
19 June of 2005; and
20 "WHEREAS, This Legislative Body is
21 proud to inscribe upon its records this
22 memoriam for Simon Wiesenthal, whose legacy as
23 the conscience of the Holocaust will long
24 endure the passage of time; now, therefore, be
25 it
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1 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative
2 Body pause in its deliberations to pay tribute
3 to the life and accomplishments of Simon
4 Wiesenthal, internationally renowned Holocaust
5 survivor of Vienna, Austria; and be it further
6 "RESOLVED, That a copy of this
7 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
8 to The Simon Wiesenthal Centre in Israel."
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: The
10 question is on the resolution. All in favor
11 signify by saying aye.
12 (Response of "Aye.")
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
14 Opposed, nay.
15 (No response.)
16 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: The
17 resolution is adopted.
18 Senator Paterson.
19 Senator Bruno.
20 SENATOR BRUNO: May I just offer,
21 again, opening this resolution to the house.
22 And anyone that would like to do otherwise
23 than be on the resolution, please just let the
24 desk know.
25 Thank you, Mr. President.
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1 Senator Paterson.
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Oh, thank you,
3 Senator Bruno. Not just for the floor, but
4 for your interest and forbearance in honoring
5 Simon Wiesenthal, who today died at the age of
6 96, just in the last 24 hours, an
7 internationally acclaimed Holocaust survivor
8 and a person that chased down and pursued
9 those who violated the lives, the families,
10 and the dignity of others.
11 Living to such an old age, many of
12 the people who he helped so much may not have
13 survived to really understand how great Simon
14 Wiesenthal was. As the resolution points out,
15 he was honored by President Heinz Fischer in
16 this year. And even in his waning years, he
17 continued to speak out against injustice and
18 to fight against all forms of hate and
19 prejudice and particularly violence against
20 others.
21 It's a part of world history that
22 we can never forget. It's a part of world
23 history that goes on even today in other parts
24 of the world, and unfortunately struck this
25 country in an attack, meaninglessly, on our
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1 country that we just commemorated on the
2 fourth anniversary of the attack on the World
3 Trade Center and the Pentagon on
4 September 11th.
5 So again, this is just a moment we
6 should remember and a period in which we
7 should fight, all of us together, to try to
8 avoid it occurring any time in the future.
9 So I just wanted to thank Senator
10 Bruno for offering this resolution. There's
11 no finer person or person recognized all over
12 the world for his humanity and his
13 condemnation and fight against those who
14 didn't practice the same.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
16 Senator Bruno.
17 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,
18 can we at this time return to the
19 controversial calendar.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: The
21 Secretary will read.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1845, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 5846A,
24 an act to amend the Tax Law.
25 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:
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1 Explanation.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: An
3 explanation has been asked for, Senator
4 Wright.
5 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr.
6 President.
7 The bill before us provides a
8 biofuel tax credit for the production of
9 biofuels in the state of New York. It's part
10 of the Senate's energy package that's being
11 advanced today to encourage the use of
12 alternative fuels.
13 As I'm sure most everyone in this
14 chamber is aware, we've advanced the idea of a
15 biofuel tax credit in various budget
16 discussions as well as in this past
17 legislative session. Today we're advancing
18 another alternative, and the purpose is really
19 twofold: Number one, to provide for
20 alternative fuel sources here in the state, to
21 address our energy needs and review our
22 dependence upon petroleum and foreign oil;
23 but, secondly, to also stimulate the economy
24 of the state.
25 Because as I know, most members
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1 here in the chamber recognize that New York
2 State banned MTBE and that ethanol is the
3 appropriate substitute as an oxygenate. So we
4 in fact have ethanol in our gasoline products
5 now, produced elsewhere in the nation, not in
6 the state of New York, thereby losing the jobs
7 and the opportunities that New York could
8 have.
9 So we have an opportunity to
10 address our energy independence as well as
11 provide economic advancement in the state.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
13 Senator Krueger.
14 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
15 Could the sponsor please yield for a question.
16 SENATOR WRIGHT: I will.
17 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
18 Senator, in the spring when we were
19 leaving session, you had a variation on this
20 bill -- I'm sorry, I don't remember the
21 number. Now, how does this bill differ from
22 the bill that moved in this chamber either the
23 last day of session or the day before, as I
24 recall?
25 SENATOR WRIGHT: This bill would
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1 provide the credit that is authorized, the
2 fuel tax credit, which is 15 cents a gallon
3 after production of 40,000 gallons, with a
4 maximum tax credit of $2.5 million per
5 taxpayer per year. That is one difference.
6 The second difference is the credit
7 is available for a maximum of four years, but
8 the credit may not lower the taxes below the
9 minimum tax fixed by law. If in fact it does,
10 it would be treated as a refundable
11 overpayment of tax.
12 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: If, through
13 you, the sponsor would continue to yield.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
15 Senator Wright?
16 SENATOR WRIGHT: Yes, I will, Mr.
17 President.
18 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
19 And, Senator, one of my concerns on
20 the last bill that we debated that you just
21 referenced was my concern that not all
22 alternative fuels are equal in the eyes of
23 science. Do you share any of my concerns that
24 ethanol has not proved to be as effective from
25 a cost perspective or an environmentally
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1 cleaner perspective than petroleum at this
2 point in time and that, rather, we should be
3 exploring biofuels and biodiesel options that
4 don't include ethanol?
5 SENATOR WRIGHT: I'm aware of the
6 science as it relates to ethanol. I'm also
7 aware -- much of which is dated. I'm also
8 aware of the new science, much of which is
9 more recent, that addresses new technologies,
10 and believe that biofuel alternatives, and
11 there are a number of them, can in fact be
12 companions in part of this, which is what our
13 intent is, to reflect both ethanol and
14 biofuels.
15 The reality is that ethanol is the
16 predominant alternative and oxygenate
17 currently being used, and New York should be
18 benefitting from that use.
19 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: And I
20 wanted to -- excuse me, Mr. President. If,
21 through you, the sponsor would yield for an
22 additional question.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
24 Senator Wright?
25 SENATOR WRIGHT: I will, Mr.
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1 President.
2 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
3 This bill would provide this
4 incentive per gallon regardless of the use of
5 the fuel? This could be for vehicles or home
6 heating, or is this specifically for vehicle
7 fuel?
8 SENATOR WRIGHT: No, it can be
9 used for both.
10 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
11 Mr. President, on the bill.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
13 Senator Krueger, on the bill.
14 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
15 I have to say I'm torn about this
16 legislation because, on the one hand, I do
17 think that there are many opportunities for
18 expansion of biofuels that would be a win for
19 the state of New York and the citizens of the
20 state of New York, both from the perspective
21 of decreasing our dependence on oil and on
22 coming up with hopefully cleaner forms of fuel
23 for our environment. And of course, in the
24 long term, at least, hopefully being able to
25 address some of the cost factors for the fuel
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1 that we use in our homes and our vehicles.
2 And yet at the same time I'm torn,
3 because the research for decades now of
4 federal subsidies, particularly for ethanol,
5 have resulted in large amounts of federal
6 money and, in some states outside of New York,
7 state money being used in this model as tax
8 credits and as subsidies to producers, where
9 we're not finding any decrease to
10 environmental pollution from the product,
11 we're not seeing decrease in costs for
12 consumers.
13 And in some cases of research done,
14 most recently by the General Accounting Office
15 of the federal government, we're finding that
16 the cost of an actual gallon of ethanol can be
17 as high as $4 a gallon and be using a gallon
18 of petroleum to produce a gallon of ethanol.
19 Clearly not a win for the environment.
20 So I'm torn because I do think we
21 need to be broadening our universe of
22 alternative fuel. I do want us in the state
23 of New York to be investing in successful or
24 potentially successful models. And yet I
25 don't want us to repeat the same mistakes of
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1 the federal government, who has now used up
2 billions of dollars of taxpayers' money
3 underwriting an industry that has not been a
4 win for the country or the environment; that
5 is, the ethanol industry.
6 And so I've asked some questions.
7 I appreciate the sponsor's responses and his
8 continuing efforts to move us down the road of
9 exploring these options. But for now, I'm
10 afraid I will still continue to vote no
11 because I am so concerned that we don't just
12 simply run down the road of new subsidies for
13 industries that won't actually be wins for our
14 state.
15 Thank you, Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
17 Senator Valesky.
18 SENATOR VALESKY: Mr. President,
19 quickly on the bill.
20 I think this is a good piece of
21 legislation that's before us today. I note in
22 the sponsor's memo that he points out that
23 there are 22 other states in the nation that
24 are producing ethanol and other biofuels. And
25 they have all, to a state, adopted a tax
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1 credit or other incentive program to encourage
2 biofuels production.
3 I have seen firsthand the State
4 University of New York Environmental Science
5 and Forestry program in Central New York.
6 They are on the leading edge of production of
7 biofuels. And I think we ought to be doing
8 what we can here to encourage this industry.
9 I would also add, however, that I
10 would hope that we have an opportunity to
11 consider encouraging use of biofuels at the
12 consumer end; perhaps a tax credit for those
13 who would heat their homes partially with
14 biofuels.
15 So I rise in support of this bill
16 and encourage all of my colleagues to support
17 this measure.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: Any
19 other Senator wishing to be heard?
20 The debate is closed.
21 The Secretary will ring the bell.
22 Read the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
24 act shall take effect immediately.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: Call
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1 the roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
4 the negative on Calendar Number 1845 are
5 Senators Duane, Hassell-Thompson and
6 L. Krueger.
7 Ayes, 58. Nays, 3.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: The
9 bill is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1994, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print
12 5763A, an act to amend the Tax Law.
13 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:
14 Explanation.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
16 Senator Marcellino, an explanation has been
17 asked for by Senator Krueger.
18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you.
19 Mr. President, the previous tax
20 credit, the income tax credit for alternative
21 fuel vehicles, expired at the end of the tax
22 year 2004. There's likely to be a significant
23 cost differential between traditional gasoline
24 internal combustion engines and alternatively
25 fueled vehicles. As a result, it will be
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1 necessary to provide consumer incentives to
2 promote their purchase.
3 Incentives should be available for
4 the purchase of any property needed to refuel
5 these environmentally friendly vehicles.
6 These tax credits proved very successful,
7 encouraging New Yorkers to purchase hybrid
8 vehicles. Since the original credit was
9 offered, there are more hybrid models
10 available to consumers, and their price is so
11 comparative to standard cars that there are
12 now long waiting lists -- several months, in
13 fact -- to purchase hybrid vehicles.
14 We hope this will provide another
15 successful program along the lines of the
16 hybrid vehicle program.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
18 Senator Krueger, why do you rise?
19 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
20 Mr. President. If, through you, the sponsor
21 would yield.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
23 Senator Marcellino, do you yield?
24 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, I do.
25 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
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1 I have to say overall I like the
2 concept of this bill, but I do have a couple
3 of questions.
4 What we're learning from hybrid
5 vehicles is that while they cost to $7,000 to
6 $10,000 more --
7 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
8 President, I'm sorry, I'm having trouble to
9 hearing the good Senator.
10 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Certainly,
11 I'll repeat. I think now my light's on.
12 Hopefully that's better.
13 Hybrid vehicles are costing between
14 $7,000 and $10,000 more than the nonhybrid
15 version. But some of the research coming out
16 shows that they're not necessarily saving
17 significantly on fuel mileage.
18 And I was wondering whether there's
19 anything in this bill that I didn't quite see
20 when I read it that would actually mandate
21 that the types of vehicles that we would
22 define as "clean" for tax credit purposes
23 would also have to meet some mile-per-gallon
24 standard in order to receive a tax credit.
25 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator,
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1 that's not part of this bill, but it is part
2 of another bill that I have which would
3 provide an incentive. The better the mileage,
4 the better the performance, the better the
5 incentive.
6 So we'll be looking for your
7 support of our other bill as well as this very
8 important bill.
9 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
10 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue
11 to yield.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
13 Senator Marcellino, do you continue to yield?
14 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes.
15 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
16 I was also wondering whether this
17 bill applies in any way differently for
18 vehicles that are either made in the United
19 States versus foreign vehicles or vehicles
20 that at least are built under some collective
21 bargaining agreement arrangement. Because of
22 course there are also concerns about
23 supporting the American car industry.
24 And perhaps with the tax credit
25 that's targeted towards cleaner vehicles and,
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1 as you said, hopefully vehicles with better
2 miles per gallon, might there not also be an
3 option to ensure that these types of tax
4 credits are used to encourage the building of
5 vehicles where American workers get jobs?
6 SENATOR MARCELLINO: It's a
7 laudable ideal. But we're here to incentivize
8 clean air, and that's what this energy bill
9 does. Clean air and avoidance of reliance
10 upon fossil fuels. Foreign fossil fuels.
11 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr.
12 President, on the bill.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
14 Senator Krueger, on the bill.
15 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
16 I appreciate the Senator's comments.
17 And I will support this bill,
18 although I would hope that my recommendations
19 might be viewed as friendly amendments as we
20 move forward with this legislation. That I
21 think that any tax credits that we're offering
22 for cleaner vehicles, whether they be what we
23 now call traditional hybrids or other types of
24 new clean fuels, will mandate a
25 miles-per-gallon standard in exchange for the
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1 tax credit.
2 And I would also urge the Senator
3 to amend the bill to recognize the value of
4 tax credits for vehicles that are built by
5 American labor, at least partially.
6 So I'll support the bill, but I
7 hope he'll consider amendments to it.
8 Thank you, Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
10 Senator Montgomery.
11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr.
12 President, just briefly on the bill.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
14 Senator Montgomery, on the bill.
15 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I want to
16 join my colleague Senator Krueger in
17 complimenting Senator Marcellino on this
18 legislation. Although there are some areas
19 that we would like to see some amendments, and
20 I agree with that.
21 But generally I would like to say
22 that this legislation, I think, sends a
23 message that is very important from this
24 Legislature, and that is that we want to see
25 the corporate as well as the
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1 individual-taxpayer community begin to utilize
2 much more the kind of energy that is suggested
3 in this legislation. And that if they do
4 that, we are willing to give them some
5 incentive and some tax break as a reward for
6 doing that.
7 We believe, I think, this
8 legislation indicates that we want to see
9 energy efficient vehicles and those vehicles
10 that use renewable energy sources as well, so
11 that we can begin to clean up the environment
12 in our state and especially in our city.
13 And let me just say, Mr. President,
14 I represent a district where all of the buses
15 in the borough of Brooklyn converge in my
16 district. There are three areas in downtown
17 Brooklyn where I represent that are three of
18 the worst hot spots in the United States as it
19 relates to traffic congestion and
20 environmental pollution. So this is extremely
21 important to me.
22 There are proposals -- in addition
23 to the fact that I already have these hot
24 spots, there are proposals that will increase
25 that exponentially, because there will be
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1 several thousand new units of housing, a
2 20,000-seat arena that is proposed for
3 downtown Brooklyn. There are several million
4 new square feet of commercial space and office
5 space, and et cetera, within a 10-square-block
6 area or smaller.
7 So besides the incredibly large
8 overdevelopment that is going on, we're going
9 to see traffic congestion that you could never
10 imagine. It would never happen in your
11 district. I know that, Mr. President. So
12 obviously this is very important to me.
13 So I thank Senator Marcellino,
14 because you're talking to people that I
15 represent, as well as all of the constituents
16 in the state of New York, that we in this
17 Legislature want and intend to do something to
18 make a clear statement about the fact that we
19 want to clean up our environment, we want to
20 be on the right side of global warming. We,
21 the Legislature, the State Senate of New York
22 State, wants clean air, clean-fuel vehicles to
23 be utilized by all of the citizens of this
24 state as well as our public authorities, as
25 the MTA is already doing.
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1 So I want to thank Senator
2 Marcellino, thank you for listening. This is
3 a very important bill, and I'm supporting it.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: Any
5 other Senator wishing to be heard?
6 The debate is closed.
7 The Secretary will ring the bell.
8 Read the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: Call
12 the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: The
16 bill is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1995, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5965, an
19 act to amend the Tax Law.
20 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:
21 Explanation.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
23 Senator Spano, an explanation has been asked
24 for.
25 SENATOR SPANO: Thank you, Mr.
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1 President.
2 This bill will assist our senior
3 citizens with their heating bills this winter
4 by providing a $100 personal income tax credit
5 for renters who pay their own heat and with a
6 $200 rebate check for those senior homeowners
7 who are eligible for the advanced STAR
8 benefit.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
10 Senator Schneiderman.
11 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
12 If the sponsor would yield for a few
13 questions.
14 SENATOR SPANO: Yes.
15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: This bill
16 actually appears to be divided into two
17 sections.
18 The first, if I read it correctly,
19 creates a tax credit of $100 for renters who
20 pay the cost of heating their residence if
21 they meet the age and income requirements. Is
22 that correct?
23 SENATOR SPANO: Yes.
24 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: And the
25 second part of the bill provides an additional
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1 $200 for senior citizens who qualify for the
2 STAR energy rebate program. Is that correct?
3 SENATOR SPANO: Yes.
4 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: And
5 through you, Mr. President, the senior
6 citizens who are eligible for the STAR program
7 have to be homeowners who demonstrate they pay
8 their heating bills; is that not correct?
9 SENATOR SPANO: The senior
10 citizens who are tenants, yes, that's correct,
11 they have to demonstrate they pay their
12 heating bills.
13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: But I'm in
14 the second section now, which relates to the
15 $200 credit for people eligible for the STAR
16 program.
17 SENATOR SPANO: Well, they're
18 homeowners. Presumably they have to pay their
19 heating costs. That's how it works in
20 Westchester, anyway.
21 (Laughter.)
22 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I
23 understand some people are getting their
24 heating bills paid by their local
25 representative.
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1 (Laughter.)
2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: But
3 through you, Mr. President, in all
4 seriousness.
5 So this bill provides for an
6 additional $200 a year for homeowners and an
7 additional $100 a year for renters who pay
8 their heating bills; is that correct?
9 SENATOR SPANO: Correct.
10 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
11 Mr. President. Thank the sponsor. On the
12 bill.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
14 Senator Schneiderman, on the bill.
15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Something
16 that is of concern to me, representing a very
17 densely populated district where most of my
18 constituents are renters, is what I believe to
19 be a pattern, not just in this house but in
20 the laws of the State of New York, that
21 essentially amounts to discrimination against
22 residents of the city and, in particular,
23 discrimination against tenants.
24 And I'm disappointed that this bill
25 that has the laudable purpose of providing a
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1 assistance to people who are really hurt by
2 the increases in oil prices continues that
3 discrimination by saying if you're someone
4 who's a homeowner and you pay your heating
5 bill, you get $200; and if you are a renter
6 and you pay your heating bill, you get $100.
7 So I really don't understand the
8 basis for this discrimination. It doesn't
9 have any provisions that ensure that the
10 homeowners are paying more than the renters or
11 any requirements of any kind that would appear
12 to clarify what looks to me like straight-out
13 discrimination against renters.
14 So I will be voting against this
15 bill. And I want to make it clear that I
16 support the purpose of providing additional
17 assistance to seniors, but representing all of
18 the tenants that I do, I cannot accept
19 legislation that provides $200 if you're a
20 homeowner and a poor senior who proves you're
21 paying your heating bills and only $100 if
22 you're even poorer and you can't afford to buy
23 your own house.
24 So for that reason, Mr. President,
25 I will be voting no.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
2 Senator Krueger.
3 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: On the
4 bill, Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
6 Senator Krueger, on the bill.
7 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
8 I share my colleague Senator
9 Schneiderman's concern, but I must raise an
10 additional issue of discrimination.
11 If you are a renter who doesn't pay
12 your own heat because it is included in the
13 cost of your rent, you get nothing in this
14 bill. And I can guarantee you landlords will
15 transfer their increased costs of heating fuel
16 to their renters, because that's a legal and
17 even rational business model. If my costs go
18 up, I transfer those costs.
19 So tenants who don't pay their own
20 heating bills but of course get heat in their
21 apartments -- and that is the
22 disproportionately largest population of
23 renters in New York City. Most renters, at
24 least in New York City -- I can't speak for
25 the rest of the state -- heat is included in
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1 the rent, but their rent will go up as their
2 landlords' heating costs go up. This bill
3 further discriminates against them, because
4 they get nothing.
5 So I will also be voting against
6 this bill because it is indeed a
7 discriminatory bill in multiple ways.
8 Thank you, Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
10 Senator Stavisky.
11 SENATOR STAVISKY: I will also be
12 voting against this bill, because not only is
13 it discriminatory against renters, it's also
14 discriminatory against shareholders in a coop,
15 condominium-unit owners. And they are
16 unfortunately treated disgracefully, really,
17 under the Real Property Tax Law, the
18 classification system. And this is just
19 another nail in the coffin of the
20 cooperatives.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
22 Senator Valesky.
23 SENATOR VALESKY: Mr. President,
24 I believe there's an amendment at the desk. I
25 ask that the reading of the amendment be
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1 waived and ask to be heard on the amendment.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: The
3 reading is waived, and you may be heard on the
4 amendment.
5 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you, Mr.
6 President.
7 I think we should be addressing the
8 issue of heating costs for seniors or
9 anticipated increases in heating costs for
10 seniors this winter, but I am concerned that
11 we are not addressing an issue that is equally
12 important, one that directly impacts children
13 and particularly schoolchildren.
14 I met yesterday with a
15 superintendent in one of the school districts
16 that I represent, and she was indicating to me
17 that because of the anticipated increases in
18 heating costs that they would be lowering the
19 temperature in those classrooms in those
20 school buildings by at least 2 degrees in the
21 upcoming heating season.
22 So this amendment would create a
23 New York State School District Energy Cost
24 Stabilization Fund that would appropriate
25 monies and direct the Commissioner of
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1 Education to establish a grant program that
2 would allow school districts to apply for
3 funding to deal with increases in both
4 transportation costs this year and in heating
5 costs in school buildings.
6 I ask that the amendment be
7 approved.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: On
9 the amendment, those Senators in agreement
10 please signify by raising your hands.
11 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
12 agreement are Senators Andrews, Breslin,
13 Brown, Diaz, Dilan, Duane, Gonzalez,
14 Hassell-Thompson, Klein, L. Krueger,
15 C. Kruger, Montgomery, Onorato, Oppenheimer,
16 Parker, Paterson, Sabini, Sampson, Savino,
17 Schneiderman, Serrano, A. Smith, M. Smith,
18 Stachowski, Stavisky and Valesky.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: The
20 amendment is not agreed to.
21 Any other Senator wishing to be
22 heard?
23 Senator Diaz.
24 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, Mr.
25 President. On the bill.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: On
2 the bill, Senator Diaz.
3 SENATOR DIAZ: Most of my life, I
4 have been working and dealing with senior
5 citizens. I have seen senior citizens being
6 discriminated. I have seen terrible things
7 done to senior citizens. Right now, in the
8 city of New York, Mayor Bloomberg changed a
9 hot daily meal for a frozen meal.
10 And I see senior citizens
11 struggling to pay their bills, their medicine,
12 their rent. And when I hear my colleagues
13 here talking about a discrimination that is
14 done against other people, of course, of
15 course I agree. Of course some people have
16 been discriminated.
17 However, I cannot, honestly and
18 humanly speaking, I cannot go and use the
19 approach of if everybody doesn't get the whole
20 thing, nobody gets anything. And anything
21 that the senior citizens could get -- even
22 though the bill is not perfect, and even
23 though I agree with my colleagues that the
24 bill discriminates against other people. But
25 ladies and gentlemen, dealing and working with
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1 senior citizens, I have to here honestly say
2 that anything that I could get for senior
3 citizens, anything that -- anything for senior
4 citizens, especially in my district, I will
5 vote for it.
6 So even though the bill is not
7 perfect, I am voting for this bill, because it
8 takes care of at least some senior citizens.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: Any
10 other Senator wishing to be heard?
11 The debate is closed.
12 The Secretary will ring the bell.
13 Read the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: Call
17 the roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
20 Senator Wright, to explain his vote.
21 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr.
22 President. To explain my vote.
23 I commend Senator Spano for his
24 leadership on this legislation. Like some of
25 my colleagues have suggested, I too would like
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1 to be everything to everybody. Not only are
2 schools going to face difficulty in terms of
3 heating, hospitals are going to face
4 difficulty in terms of heating, colleges are
5 going to face difficulty in terms of heating.
6 Most any institutional setting you can
7 anticipate, as well as individuals with
8 families, are going to face those problems
9 this year.
10 We don't have enough money to deal
11 with the problem. What we're trying to do is
12 to take the windfall that's being derived from
13 taxes, target it to our most vulnerable
14 population to address a critical need in this
15 state. It doesn't minimize the need of
16 others, but it recognizes a critical need.
17 Relative to the school districts,
18 one should recall that a school expense is a
19 reimbursable expense. Many of them contract
20 in advance and have prices already built in.
21 The concern for school districts actually
22 should be reflected next year, when we are
23 reimbursing them for those expenses that they
24 will be incurred as part of the state aid
25 formula.
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1 So I believe we've targeted what is
2 facing the most critical need as we enter the
3 heating season, our elderly population. I
4 commend Senator Spano for his leadership and
5 encourage support on this vote.
6 I'm voting aye.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
8 Senator Saland.
9 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr.
10 President.
11 I too would like to join with
12 Senator Wright in commending Senator Spano. I
13 don't profess to be a construction engineer,
14 but I do know the amount of heat that you
15 require will, among other things, depend upon
16 the size of your residence or dwelling, the
17 heating efficiency of whatever that particular
18 dwelling may be. And when I last checked,
19 most homes were considerably larger than
20 apartments.
21 And if I can use the experience of
22 two of my children, both of whom reside in
23 New York City, both of whom have their heat
24 included in their rent, the size of their home
25 or residence would be most modest in
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1 comparison even to a 1500-, 1800-, or
2 2000-square-foot house that many of us find
3 our seniors living in in our districts.
4 So there's absolutely nothing
5 inequitable about the formula. The means by
6 which there is a distinction made between
7 those who reside in a residence that's been
8 constructed in, probably, minimally 1500 to
9 1800 square feet -- few apartments, I think,
10 would run in that range. And those that do, I
11 don't necessarily think that their owners
12 would be as concerned as a senior who might be
13 on a fixed income who is making choices that
14 many of us talk about time and again, whether
15 to buy prescription drugs, whether to get fuel
16 to heat their house, whether to lower the
17 thermostat to some level that many of us might
18 consider to be unsafe or unhealthy.
19 So I thank you, Senator Spano, and
20 commend you for bringing this before us. And
21 I vote aye.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
23 Senator Saland and Senator Wright will be
24 recorded in the affirmative.
25 Announce the results.
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1 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
2 the negative on Calendar Number 1995 are
3 Senators Duane, Gonzalez, L. Krueger,
4 Montgomery, Parker, Paterson, Schneiderman,
5 Serrano, A. Smith and Stavisky.
6 Ayes, 51. Nays, 10.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: The
8 bill is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1997, by Senator Winner, Senate Print Number
11 5967, an act to amend the Tax Law.
12 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:
13 Explanation.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
15 Senator Winner, an explanation has been
16 requested by Senator Schneiderman.
17 SENATOR WINNER: Thank you, Mr.
18 President.
19 This legislation is a chapter
20 amendment to a previous bill that we passed
21 earlier this year to provide for tax credits
22 for fuel cells. This changes the effective
23 date of when that tax credit would be
24 available, from July 1 of 2005 to January 1 of
25 2003, ostensibly for the purposes of not
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1 penalizing those who have previously purchased
2 this technology from the availability of that
3 tax credit.
4 This has already been passed, I
5 believe unanimously, in this house, the
6 original bill. And this chapter amendment is
7 at the request of the Tax Department and the
8 Governor's office. And therefore I would urge
9 your support.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
11 Senator Krueger.
12 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
13 If the sponsor would please yield to a
14 question.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
16 Senator Winner, will you yield?
17 SENATOR WINNER: Certainly.
18 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Senator,
19 the purpose of a tax incentive is to do what?
20 SENATOR WINNER: Well, Senator, I
21 know that you and I have very differing
22 viewpoints about taxation policy in New York.
23 Many people believe that the
24 purpose of providing a tax incentive is to
25 bring down the cost of a particular item so
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1 that it would be more usable and therefore, in
2 this instance, provide for the affordability
3 of the equipment which in fact is designed to
4 try to save energy in this state.
5 So I believe that could be one
6 interpretation of what a tax incentive is for
7 the purpose of.
8 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr.
9 President, on the bill.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
11 Senator Krueger, on the bill.
12 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I pretty
13 much agree with the sponsor, the purpose of a
14 business tax incentive is to encourage a
15 certain activity; in this case, to encourage
16 the purchase of a fuel cell technology that
17 will be efficient.
18 My problem with this legislation is
19 I don't grasp the concept of a retroactive
20 business tax incentive. These people already
21 bought the equipment. They didn't apparently
22 need the incentive of a tax reduction to
23 encourage them to take a risk on new
24 technology that we hope is more efficient from
25 an energy and environmental perspective.
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1 So while, if I was a businessperson
2 and I bought something and then I learned that
3 there was a sale on, I might wish I had waited
4 for the sale, or if I was a businessperson and
5 I had purchased something or just a consumer
6 and then I discovered if I had waited I could
7 get a tax incentive, I don't actually think
8 the State of New York wants to go into the
9 retroactive tax incentive business.
10 Because with all due respect to the
11 people who bought these items before
12 January 2005, I would assume the next group
13 you would hear from is any other business or
14 consumer who had purchased something before we
15 passed a law, saying: Hello, me too, I want a
16 retroactive tax incentive. And I don't know
17 what my argument would be to vote no to them
18 and yes to this group of businesspeople who
19 bought their equipment before we changed the
20 law.
21 So I think it's a very dangerous
22 precedent for any of us. And with all due
23 respect to this particular group of people who
24 bought these fuel cells, they didn't need the
25 incentive to convince them. They already
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1 bought the items.
2 I have to vote no. And I have to
3 urge my colleagues to think through the
4 precedent being set if we say, If we pass any
5 law and you like it and wish you'd gotten in
6 on it and you want to retroactively, we could
7 spend a lot of time and a lot of taxpayer
8 money trying to reevaluate each decision we
9 made and go backwards.
10 So I urge my colleagues, don't vote
11 for this bill. And I'll be voting no.
12 Thank you very much. Thank you.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: Any
14 other Senator wishing to be heard?
15 The debate is closed.
16 The Secretary will ring the bell.
17 Read the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect on the same date as a
20 chapter of the Laws of 2005.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: Call
22 the roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
25 the negative on Calendar Number 1997 are
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1 Senators Andrews, Diaz, Dilan, Duane,
2 Gonzalez, Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger,
3 Montgomery, Parker, Paterson, Sabini, Sampson,
4 Schneiderman, Serrano, A. Smith and Stavisky.
5 Ayes, 45. Nays, 16.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: The
7 bill is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1998, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 5968, an
10 act to amend the Tax Law.
11 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:
12 Explanation.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
14 Senator Robach, an explanation has been asked
15 for by Senator Schneiderman.
16 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, Mr.
17 President. This --
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
19 Senator Robach, can I interrupt for a second.
20 We just need a little bit of quiet.
21 Senator Robach.
22 SENATOR ROBACH: In response to
23 the large spike in gasoline costs that we've
24 all experienced across the state, this bill
25 would be an immediate response to that, and a
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1 direct one to consumers, which would cap state
2 and local taxable receipts of motor fuel and
3 diesel motor fuel at $2 a gallon, eliminating
4 the windfall to some governments who estimated
5 their receipts at $2.
6 This keeps that money with the
7 people who I believe deserve it, all of our
8 constituents, but at the same time does not
9 interrupt any government programming. It's
10 estimated it would be about 8 to 10 cents a
11 gallon, $400 million in aggregate, and roughly
12 between $150 to $225, almost in a rebate form,
13 if you would, per annum for the average
14 two-car household in New York State.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
16 Senator Schneiderman.
17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
18 Mr. President. If the sponsor would yield for
19 a few questions.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
21 Senator Robach, will you yield?
22 SENATOR ROBACH: I will.
23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: How is
24 sales tax on motor fuel and diesel motor fuel
25 collected in the State of New York?
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1 SENATOR ROBACH: Similar to other
2 products. It's the only portion of gas that
3 is taxed on the cost, not on the gallon
4 itself. I.e., because I think this is the
5 question you want, if you estimated the
6 average cost of gas would be $2 in New York,
7 you would roughly collect 16 cents in some
8 counties -- 20 cents in others, if there's a
9 local portion -- on that $2 purchase.
10 Now, with gas going $3 and above,
11 that would become 10, 12 cents higher
12 unanticipated revenue for states and
13 localities. I guess -- I hope that answers
14 your question. That's how it's taxed, on
15 volume.
16 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Actually,
17 I appreciate it, but my question is a little
18 different.
19 My concern with this legislation is
20 that I don't see any mechanism in this bill
21 that requires any of the savings to be passed
22 on to consumers.
23 So my question is, is it not the
24 case that sales tax on motor fuel and diesel
25 motor fuel is collected from wholesalers when
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1 they accept delivery of a shipment of fuel?
2 SENATOR ROBACH: I think that
3 won't change, that's correct, how it will be
4 collected. But now it will only be capped at
5 $2 rather than at the higher amount.
6 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: And
7 through you, Mr. President, what requirement
8 is there in this bill that the wholesaler will
9 charge any less for the fuel as they pass it
10 along to the retailer? If it's here, please
11 point it out to me.
12 SENATOR ROBACH: I am very
13 hopeful that, like other bills we've done to
14 protect consumers, as they become aware of
15 that, the demand will be high.
16 And I also think that while they
17 don't absolutely have to, just like other
18 taxes that are imposed on gasoline, the public
19 would be aware of it. Obviously, in the
20 bottom-line price, there's no 100 percent
21 guarantee. But I think most people would
22 absolutely adhere to that.
23 And my guess would be as long as
24 some retailers were doing that, to remain
25 competitive, the rest would follow suit. That
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1 would be my hope.
2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: And
3 through you, Mr. President, I asked about
4 whether there is anything to require
5 wholesalers to pass along the savings that
6 they benefit from by not having to pay the
7 sales tax to retailers.
8 Is there any requirement here that
9 the retailers, to the extent it is passed
10 through to them, pass that savings through to
11 the consumers?
12 SENATOR ROBACH: I don't think
13 that there's -- whenever you're in a free
14 marketplace, there's no guarantee. But I
15 think, given our history, what's gone on in
16 the large public scrutiny of those gas prices,
17 I believe it will.
18 And also I think, as part of all of
19 our jobs, I think we should also educate the
20 public on what we're trying to do.
21 And I believe, from talking to
22 retailers at the local level, they're not only
23 in support of this bill but plan on passing
24 along that saving. Because just like I, from
25 my constituents, who have heard complaints,
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1 issues, concerns, with the cost to working
2 men, women, families and businesses, they've
3 heard that at their retail establishments as
4 well.
5 So while I cannot assure you
6 100 percent, as can't be done in any retail
7 situation, I do think the likelihood is
8 tremendously high. And I for one will be
9 doing all I can to make sure the public, the
10 media, and consumers are aware of it and it
11 gets passed on at the pump.
12 I would just add to this, without
13 this I absolutely know where the money will
14 go -- to the State of New York, not to our
15 constituents, not to our taxpayers, with zero
16 percentage. And I, at least for one, am very
17 much opposed to that idea. I don't think it's
18 necessary for us to take more money than we
19 anticipated from those people and their
20 families.
21 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
22 you, Mr. President, if the sponsor would yield
23 for one more question.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
25 Senator Robach, do you continue to yield?
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1 SENATOR ROBACH: Of course.
2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Is there
3 any mechanism provided, in this bill or
4 anywhere else in the law, for any agency,
5 state or local, to monitor whether or not this
6 benefit to -- that clearly provides a benefit
7 to the wholesalers, whether or not any of this
8 benefit or what portion of this benefit is
9 provided to the retailers and whether they, in
10 turn, pass it on to consumers?
11 SENATOR ROBACH: Several overlap
12 places. As exists now, from Weights and
13 Measures to make sure that portion's right, to
14 the Attorney General, who has some regulatory
15 powers over that, as well as the Department of
16 Taxation, to make sure everything from posting
17 to collection is done properly.
18 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
19 Mr. President. Thank the sponsor. On the
20 bill.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
22 Senator Schneiderman, on the bill.
23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: There's a
24 related bill that's, I guess, the next bill
25 we're going to be addressing that I'm going to
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1 attempt to offer a helpful suggestion in the
2 form of an amendment on.
3 I think the problem with this
4 legislation, which to me is a fundamental
5 flaw, is what the sponsor has just
6 acknowledged. Sales tax on motor fuel is paid
7 by wholesalers when they take delivery of the
8 fuel. That's it. There is no mechanism in
9 the State of New York for monitoring whether
10 they pass along any savings in sales tax to a
11 retailer. It doesn't exist in the Attorney
12 General's office. The price-gouging statute,
13 which I will talk about later, doesn't apply
14 to this situation.
15 Quite simply put, we are at the
16 mercy of the oil industry. And I note that
17 even Senator Bruno, on August 24th, when we
18 were talking about the possibility of price
19 gouging, said that -- stated that he was very
20 concerned about oil businesses that are making
21 up -- quote, making up to 58 percent more
22 profits than they made last year.
23 We are in a situation where people
24 are saying that, oh, because of the hurricane,
25 oil prices have gone up. And yet if you
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1 actually look into the evidence of this small
2 portion of the oil supply that was disrupted
3 by the hurricane, it looks very different.
4 And our great U.S. Senator Schumer today
5 actually addressed this issue and raised it
6 and talked about it at the federal level.
7 If we are going to address the
8 issue of increased prices, I think we have to
9 ask a fundamental question. Is the oil
10 industry playing straight with us, or are they
11 taking advantage of a situation just to rack
12 up profits unnecessarily because the supply
13 has not been seriously diminished?
14 Now, I am going to offer a
15 suggestion in the form of an amendment to
16 Senator Marcellino's bill. What we really
17 need to do is amend our price-gouging statute
18 to give the Attorney General and local
19 authorities jurisdiction to do this. In the
20 absence of that -- and the sponsor can correct
21 me if I'm wrong -- there is no provision of
22 state law that provides for any punishment of
23 any kind for wholesalers and retailers that
24 just simply take the benefit of a sales tax
25 reduction and don't pass it along to the
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1 consumers. There is no downside.
2 And if you're relying on the oil
3 industry to be free of collusion in the area
4 of oil prices, I would urge you that this is
5 probably the worst industry in the United
6 States to pin those noble hopes on.
7 So I would suggest that absent a
8 mechanism to monitor whether the tax is being
9 passed through, absent a mechanism to deter
10 the wholesalers and retailers from just
11 keeping the money, what we're doing really is
12 putting a lot of money -- and we know this is
13 the case -- in the pockets of people in the
14 oil business. Maybe the consumers would get
15 some benefit from this; I don't know how much
16 it would be. The sponsor has acknowledged he
17 doesn't know how much there would be a
18 problem.
19 We can do better than this. We
20 should be looking at a way to ensure that
21 price gouging is not taking place in our
22 state. There are legal steps we can take.
23 I'm going to talk about one later. But
24 without that, I think this is a flawed
25 approach to solving this very, very serious
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1 problem.
2 Thank you, Mr. President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
4 Senator Balboni.
5 SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President,
6 I think that as I've listened to my
7 colleagues' discussion of this issue it's very
8 difficult to be sitting here in the chamber
9 and listen to the arguments against an effort
10 to try to reduce the ultimate amount of gas
11 taxes that people pay.
12 Because what we're missing is what
13 all of us experienced when Katrina hit, as you
14 drove around our neighborhoods and you had
15 90-cent-to-a-dollar increases overnight for
16 the gas stations. And I don't know about you
17 guys, but I sat around saying, Where's the AG?
18 Where are the people who are going to look at
19 price gouging? Where are all these different
20 people who are going to take a look at how to
21 protect the consumer? And you know what?
22 Nobody was around.
23 Now we have a nice piece of
24 legislation that at least talks about
25 governmental intervention in an area that
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1 obviously has demonstrated the fluctuations
2 and the volatility that is going to continue
3 to plague us.
4 And, Senator Robach, this is an
5 excellent idea. It's the time for the idea.
6 Because unfortunately, even though we've seen
7 a reduction in costs recently, what we're also
8 seeing is that there's huge volatility.
9 And the last thing -- you know,
10 what we also don't ever do in this chamber,
11 because it's against our interests, we don't
12 look to the laws that are currently on the
13 books. It is my belief that many of the laws
14 that are currently on the books are not being
15 used effectively to try to curb some of the
16 abuses.
17 For example, nobody is talking
18 about antitrust. Antitrust applies to
19 gasoline stations and wholesalers. I mean,
20 nobody talks about that. And yet it's just a
21 coincidence that four stations on every corner
22 seem to have the exact same gas price? You
23 know, we don't talk about these things. But
24 in the bigger context, we ought to be.
25 And of course, at the end of the
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1 day, we should remember the angst that hit all
2 of us when we just said it's just darn unfair
3 that people are capitalizing on somebody
4 else's misery.
5 I plan on voting in favor of
6 Senator Robach's well-thought-out bill.
7 Thank you very much.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
9 Senator Paterson, why do you rise?
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
11 if Senator Balboni would yield for a question.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
13 Senator Balboni, will you yield?
14 SENATOR BALBONI: Yes, I will.
15 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
16 Balboni, you said you're going to vote for the
17 legislation, and then you gave all the
18 arguments to vote against it.
19 Now, let me elaborate on that. You
20 just talked about all the prices that went up
21 simultaneously, the antitrust action, the
22 issue of what would be apparent price gouging.
23 You bypassed the Governor's office, which
24 could have declared a state of emergency and
25 blamed it on the Attorney General's office --
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1 but we're going to let that go, because we
2 understand.
3 SENATOR BALBONI: But actually,
4 if I might, I just disagree with your premise.
5 I don't think there would have been a basic
6 declaration of an emergency.
7 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, then, in
8 that case the Attorney General's office
9 couldn't act.
10 SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. Speaker --
11 Mr. Speaker? Sorry.
12 (Laughter.)
13 SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President,
14 through you.
15 Going back to my days in the
16 Assembly. It's because I'm sitting next to
17 Winner. It's Winner's fault.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
19 Senator Balboni.
20 SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President,
21 perhaps the gentleman was involved in
22 conversation, but I had actually said that
23 this is the basis for the prosecution.
24 Because if you go back to the business law and
25 you take a look at what constitutes price
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1 gouging and how you set up your investigation
2 to prove that, this -- all of the things we've
3 talked about in fact empower the Attorney
4 General to do this very kind of action.
5 SENATOR PATERSON: All right,
6 Senator. Then if the Senator would yield for
7 a question.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
9 Senator Balboni, do you continue to yield?
10 SENATOR BALBONI: Yes, I do.
11 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator,
12 what's your explanation for why, between
13 August 29th and September 2nd right here in
14 New York State, right in this area, the prices
15 of oil went up from $2 to $3.48, and in
16 New York City the prices went at high as
17 $3.80?
18 SENATOR BALBONI: What is my
19 explanation for that?
20 SENATOR PATERSON: What was the
21 intervening cause, which is the effect that
22 the prices went up?
23 SENATOR BALBONI: Senator
24 Paterson, and I mean this with all due
25 respect, but perhaps you and I can engage in a
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1 discussion as to the effect of the mercantile
2 exchange on the establishment of the prices on
3 a market-based economy for gasoline. At which
4 time, though, we would probably talk about
5 things that happen six months down the line.
6 The question here is how can any
7 retailer or wholesaler justify the increase of
8 90 cents on product that's already in the
9 tank.
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Exactly.
11 SENATOR BALBONI: You know, and
12 so part of that is also, though, long range.
13 As you go forward, how do you protect the
14 consumer? The cap is the way to do that right
15 now, because it provides a break on the price
16 costs.
17 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
18 Balboni.
19 SENATOR BALBONI: Yes.
20 SENATOR PATERSON: You've just
21 asked me my own question back.
22 (Laughter.)
23 SENATOR PATERSON: So I'm going
24 to answer it for you.
25 SENATOR BALBONI: I don't think I
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1 asked the question. And if I did, I withdraw
2 the question.
3 (Laughter.)
4 SENATOR PATERSON: Serving with
5 you for eight years now, that is the best
6 decision you've ever made.
7 (Laughter.)
8 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
9 on the bill.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
11 Senator Paterson, on the bill.
12 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator
13 Schneiderman laid out, I think, quite
14 constructively the way in which taxes are paid
15 and the fact that there's really no
16 enforcement of this type of sales tax. So in
17 other words, in concept, Senator Robach's
18 concept is very good. But we don't have the
19 enforcement capability to ensure that it
20 actually happens.
21 The reality is that the same
22 individuals who raised the price of oil are
23 the same ones who faith has shown that they
24 will now not just pocket the tax increase to
25 go along with the skyrocketing rates that they
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1 collected in the last three weeks.
2 So the first time it happens, we
3 feel shame. But the second time, it's shame
4 on us if we're going to give the same entities
5 the decision-making capacity to determine
6 whether or not they want to pass what would be
7 these savings along to the consumer when, in
8 fact, if they were concerned about consumers
9 or anybody at a very difficult time and in a
10 crisis in this country, they went right ahead
11 and raised the prices.
12 As Senator Balboni pointed out,
13 they sold you the same gas that was in their
14 tank at $2 the week before for nearly $4 the
15 week after. The same people did it. Now
16 we're going to give them an extra opportunity
17 by affecting the sales tax, which gives them a
18 greater pool of resources to deal with.
19 Now, first of all, the estimate is
20 $200,000 savings to the state if the --
21 $200 million, I'm sorry, and the local
22 government another $400 million if they opt
23 in. There are 9 million cars in New York
24 State. So that would be, by my calculations,
25 $44 per car. So a two-car household wouldn't
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1 get a $150 to $200 savings, as Senator Robach
2 is suggesting. It would be $88. So, first of
3 all, it's only half as effective as the
4 sponsor is claiming that it would be.
5 But, secondly, I don't think it's
6 going to be effective at all. Because the
7 issue as -- in terms of the savings, why we
8 would want the money to go to the state rather
9 than, I presume, to the companies, is because
10 the same legislation that we're passing today
11 that would inure to the benefit of consumers
12 would raise costs to the state at the exact
13 same amount that we'd be saving with a sales
14 tax. I get that from the Syracuse
15 Post-Standard of September 2nd.
16 So now when we look at what
17 certainly appeared to be price gouging --
18 because if it wasn't, I'd sure like to know an
19 example of what is -- we recognize that the
20 hurricane, as both Senator Schneiderman and I
21 believe Senator Balboni also really pointed
22 out, had nothing to do with it. The rigs in
23 the New Orleans area probably lost somewhere
24 between 150,000 and 200,000 barrels of oil
25 during that period, something approaching
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1 nearly about 2 percent of the oil that is
2 distributed around this country every day.
3 When oil comes out of the ground to the time
4 it gets in the gas tank, that's approximately
5 a 4-month period of time. So there was
6 nothing that should have promulgated that kind
7 of effect.
8 Even the large rigs like the Shell
9 rig, which controlled about 250,000 barrels of
10 oil a day, wasn't even affected by the
11 hurricane. You would have needed something
12 with five times the effect on production to
13 even get to 5 percent of the nation's
14 production of oil daily. Our country produces
15 about 20 million gallons of oil a day --
16 barrels of oil a day.
17 And so when we come after the fact
18 and create this sales-tax incentive, we are
19 really not addressing the major issues. If we
20 were going to come back here and send a
21 message to the federal government today, the
22 message that we've got to send the federal
23 government is that there may be a limited time
24 that we can act on these fuels and oil
25 reserves before they start to run out.
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1 We have used, as a globe, about
2 1 trillion barrels of oil since it started
3 being produced in the mid-19th century. Oil
4 first started to be produced in 1859. The
5 United States' oil production increased
6 gradually until it hit about 10 billion
7 barrels of oil a day midway through the year
8 1970. That number has come down ever since.
9 Now it has dipped slightly below 5 billion
10 barrels of oil a day.
11 And so with that decrease in
12 production, the amount of use in this country
13 is now 30 billion barrels per year. So when
14 you look at the comparison, we are getting
15 less and spending more.
16 By those calculations, we've got to
17 determine how much fossil fuel and oil is left
18 in our earth. If it is 2 trillion barrels, as
19 many have suggested, then we've already used
20 up half the supply. As you get to the bottom
21 of the supply, it becomes more and more
22 expensive to produce the oil. So this is a
23 crisis that some people feel is so paramount
24 that we would actually run out of the fossil
25 fuel in the year 2029.
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1 Our own government's energy experts
2 say that I'm wrong, there's actually
3 3 trillion barrels of oil, of which we've used
4 one, beneath the earth's surface. If that's
5 the case, it would only add about 18 years to
6 the expectancy before the oil actually runs
7 out.
8 So what we're going to have to do
9 is to find alternative fuels that extend this
10 time until we can find the alternative fuel
11 that would actually solve this crisis and make
12 the conversion. But the conversion itself
13 would take a number of years.
14 And that's what we need our
15 colleagues in Washington to focus, that the
16 issue is one that is time-sensitive. The
17 ideas of wind, of solar power, of hydrothermal
18 fuels are good, but they can't, as oil can,
19 just go straight for production. Their
20 effectiveness is measured by their ability to
21 extract hydrogen from water.
22 Hydrogen is the lightest element
23 in -- at least one of the lightest elements
24 that we have. No matter how well you try to
25 contain it, 3.4 percent of it escapes. That's
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1 the best we've ever done. So therefore, any
2 kind of use of hydrogen fuel at this point is
3 really not going to be cost-effective. It
4 would cost, and this is probably the first
5 time I've ever used this term here on the
6 floor, trillions of dollars to build the types
7 of pipelines that we now pump oil to pump
8 hydrogen.
9 So as you can see, it is probably
10 not as effective as we think in terms of a
11 conversion. What we're going to have to do is
12 a conservation, a little at a time, to
13 actually preserve and prolong our oil supply.
14 But the tax, the sales tax that
15 we're proposing here today is not going to
16 benefit us unless we can guarantee that the
17 money gets in the hands of the consumer. I
18 think that Senator Schneiderman illustrated
19 that when you look at that system, there's
20 nothing to guarantee that it's actually going
21 to work.
22 So it's really my feeling, standing
23 here today, that it was a good idea for us to
24 come back. I commend Senator Bruno for
25 bringing us back to discuss this. Together we
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1 can implore the federal government that this
2 is probably the most serious issue we can be
3 facing now, when most of the other available
4 oil around the globe is in the hands of many
5 of our enemies.
6 And so I don't think that a sales
7 tax would be in any way beneficial when the
8 decision-making capacity of what the price of
9 oil is is still something that we have no real
10 ability to influence. And we just saw an
11 example of that during the crisis last month.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
13 Senator Morahan.
14 SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you, Mr.
15 President. Would the sponsor yield for a
16 question?
17 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, I will.
18 SENATOR MORAHAN: Senator Robach,
19 every year we vote to give a sales-tax holiday
20 just before we open up the schools so that our
21 consumers and our people can deal with the
22 sudden need to buy a large amount of clothing.
23 So we take it into our agenda to give a tax
24 holiday for several weeks, or two weeks.
25 How is that any different on the
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1 enforcement issue? How do we guarantee in
2 that situation, which we unanimously vote for,
3 that that tax gets back to the consumer?
4 SENATOR ROBACH: Correct, it's
5 absolutely the same. That bill that we do to
6 try and hold down the cost of clothing to
7 folks would be exactly the perfect analogy.
8 We have no control over what the
9 cost of the product is, but we can control
10 what the cost of the tax is. In an attempt,
11 again, to make that more additional beneficial
12 to the consumers and our constituents.
13 SENATOR MORAHAN: So a
14 retailer -- may I continue, Mr. President?
15 Will the sponsor continue to yield?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
17 Senator Robach?
18 SENATOR ROBACH: I will.
19 SENATOR MORAHAN: So in other
20 words, a retailer selling shoes or any other
21 garment or footwear under $110, knowing that
22 we're going to come out with this tax
23 abatement, if you will, for the sales tax,
24 could up their price, couldn't they?
25 SENATOR ROBACH: They could,
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1 hypothetically. Absolutely.
2 SENATOR MORAHAN: Okay. Mr.
3 President, will the sponsor continue to yield?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
5 Senator Robach, do you continue to yield?
6 SENATOR ROBACH: I will.
7 SENATOR MORAHAN: So in other
8 words, it would be the marketplace now, the
9 competition, that probably would hold a
10 retailer down from trying to raise his price a
11 little bit to, you know, capitalize --
12 SENATOR ROBACH: Absolutely.
13 There is no question. Comments on what
14 absolute guarantee rigidity is not there. But
15 we would hope that the consumer would be
16 somewhat aware of that and would put that
17 pressure on.
18 In the case of gas, there is no
19 question, Senator Morahan, that there are
20 websites now that are posting gas. When gas
21 was $2 a gallon, even I myself was not that
22 particular at which corner I bought gas at.
23 At the higher price, you can bet your life I
24 now shop around for the lowest cost.
25 And I believe if we implemented
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1 this, just like clothing or anything else,
2 people would shop around for the lowest cost
3 and would force the marketplace to adhere and
4 past that savings on to the consumer.
5 SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you,
6 Senator.
7 SENATOR ROBACH: You're welcome.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
9 Senator Padavan.
10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Part of my
11 reason for asking to speak was to make the
12 very point that the Senator Morahan did.
13 Last year, at the request of the
14 City of New York, we eliminated the sales tax
15 on clothing and shoes of $110 or less. We did
16 it unanimously, as I recall. And yet no one
17 raised the question on the floor as to how we
18 were going to stop Nike, as an example, of
19 increasing their price to the retailer an
20 amount equivalent to the reduction in the
21 sales tax that we were providing.
22 No one raised that issue. The
23 reason you didn't, and the reason it's not an
24 issue today, is a competitive market.
25 Now, Senator Paterson, I know you
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1 understand the commodities market a lot more
2 than you indicated in your remarks.
3 Commodities are sold not on the price of
4 today, but the price of tomorrow, which could
5 be months or years, in some cases. But
6 generally it's months. Which is why most
7 building owners, apartment owners, lock in a
8 price, they lock in a price that they're going
9 to pay for the coming heating season.
10 Now, if the wholesale price in the
11 marketplace has gone crazy because of a
12 hurricane or whatever the factors may be, then
13 that wholesaler gets stuck holding the bag.
14 And the owner of the building, the apartment
15 building, as an example, pays that price.
16 However, I do agree with you that
17 people can take advantage of the situation and
18 disagree with you in terms of what exists out
19 there to deal with those problems.
20 The Attorney General has found it
21 possible -- and we applaud him -- to crack
22 down on the securities industry, the insurance
23 industry, and a whole bunch of others who were
24 doing things at the expense of the consumer,
25 adversely. People are going to jail. People
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1 are paying huge fines.
2 And there is no doubt in my mind
3 that he could crack down on the commodities
4 industry, I don't care if it's oil or wheat or
5 soybeans or hog jowls, crack down on that
6 industry if they were taking advantage of the
7 marketplace.
8 As a matter of fact, I think
9 Senator Fuschillo has a bill in to increase
10 the magnitude of those penalties that
11 currently exist under law in terms of civil
12 action.
13 The marketplace -- this was
14 mentioned earlier today by Senator Bruno --
15 the marketplace will also provide a vehicle to
16 ensure that this reduction, in terms of the
17 retail price vis-a-vis the sales tax, is
18 passed along to the consumer.
19 Last week I filled up a tank of
20 gas, I think I paid $3.49. Today I filled up
21 a task of gas before I left for Albany, and it
22 was $3.07. What happened? What happened?
23 Well, the futures contracts went down, number
24 one, if I heard correctly on the radio and
25 elsewhere. Well, they may go back up again.
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1 But nevertheless, they went down between that
2 week-and-a-half time frame.
3 One gas station on that corner
4 competes with another gas station on that
5 corner. Sunoco over there, Mobil over there.
6 And 10 cents is a fair amount on a gallon.
7 And if you're driving down the avenue and you
8 see that one's 10 cents less than this one,
9 where are you going to go? You're going to
10 save the 10 cents, obviously. And so that
11 will be another way of dealing with the issue.
12 Is it a hundred percent foolproof
13 in every respect? No. No more than it was
14 when we eliminated the sales tax on clothing
15 and shoes. But there are enough vehicles out
16 there -- the Attorney General, the State Tax
17 Department, Department of Consumer Affairs,
18 both state and city, all of those folks
19 certainly have the authority to jump into the
20 issue if people are taking advantage of it.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
22 Senator Volker.
23 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, I
24 just -- and I realize it's very tempting to
25 talk about price gouging and all that sort of
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1 thing. I used to be chairman of Energy some
2 years ago. I spent some time with the Federal
3 Energy Regulatory Commission. And I spent, of
4 course, a lot of time -- I've been in the
5 Legislature here for almost 34 years. You
6 know, what you said, David, was very
7 fascinating. You gave a lot of very good
8 information.
9 But let me tell you what really
10 caused -- and when somebody says that the
11 hurricane, the worst natural disaster in the
12 history -- some could argue in the history of
13 the world -- by the way, if that Category 5
14 storm ever hit the levees in Holland, they
15 would break. I just have to tell you that
16 there doesn't seem to be an understanding,
17 there were about 30 refineries that went down.
18 The problem in this country is
19 thanks to the Clean Air Act, the federal
20 government has total control of this issue.
21 We don't have control of it. The Clean Air
22 Act said everybody in this country now,
23 whether you need it or not, has to have some
24 additive in their gas. That means that all
25 sorts of different refineries have to refine
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1 different kinds of gas. That's a killer.
2 That's the real reason we have this problem.
3 We don't need ethanol in our -- we have some
4 cleanest air in Western New York in the world
5 right now. It's silly, but then on the other
6 hand the Clean Air Act says you got to have
7 something in there.
8 But the bigger problem is we
9 haven't built a new refinery in 15 years.
10 When you say why haven't the prices gone down,
11 because about 12 or 15 refineries went back
12 online -- but I'm just reading the refineries
13 right here. ConocoPhillips, Bell Chase,
14 Louisiana; 247,000, no power, major damage.
15 ExxonMobil, 187,200, no power, water damage.
16 They haven't even gotten to a couple of these
17 refineries yet. They can't get to them. The
18 media that sat in New Orleans and moaned about
19 the hurricane didn't realize there were four
20 states involved. It's such a terrible
21 disaster that the energy industry is in chaos.
22 And one more thing I hesitate to
23 tell everybody. The issue of what the price
24 is going to do is going to be determined in
25 the next three days, two days. If this
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1 hurricane that's now a Hurricane 4,
2 unfortunately -- it's up to 4; it could be a
3 5, Rita -- which is going by, apparently,
4 Florida but headed straight for Houston, if it
5 misses Houston, the price of gas, I will tell
6 you, will be at $2.30 by next week. But if it
7 hits Houston, it will be back up to
8 three-something, whatever. Because the
9 problem is a supply problem.
10 We don't have -- we have plenty of
11 oil. We can't refine it fast enough. And if
12 we don't deal with that -- the
13 environmentalists have turned this whole thing
14 into a mess of epic proportions. We have not
15 built a refinery in 15 years. And the other
16 house has refused to let us pass siting
17 legislation because it's too sensitive.
18 The real reason for all these
19 numbers doesn't have to do -- and I disagree
20 with you, Senator Paterson. There's enough
21 oil, I'm told, for the next century. On the
22 other hand, what we're doing is by this stupid
23 oil stuff we're now tapping into the natural
24 gas problem.
25 One thing I will say, for the
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1 economy of upstate New York this has been
2 great. Coal is moving at a pace we have never
3 seen before. And you can't believe how many
4 industries have switched over to coal. And of
5 course there's this myth that coal is dirty.
6 It's not dirty in any plants in this state.
7 You can't build a dirty plant anymore. It's
8 impossible.
9 But I think the real point is to
10 blame the oil people for this, when their
11 refineries are down all over the place and
12 when they can't get the flow of gasoline into
13 places, is very nice, it looks good, but it
14 doesn't make sense. The truth is, the market
15 reflects the real reliability of oil. And the
16 real reliability of oil right now, with the
17 refineries down, is in deep, deep trouble.
18 Iraq doesn't matter. Iraq's not a
19 big supplier of us anyways. That's the myth
20 about Iraq. It hasn't been for a long time.
21 We don't get much -- we use Canadian, we use
22 all kinds of oil. But the problem is you can
23 have all the oil you want, but if you can't
24 refine it, what the hell good is it?
25 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
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1 Senator Paterson, why do you rise?
2 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. President,
3 if Senator Volker does not agree with me after
4 this, I'm just going to kill myself.
5 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Big
6 supporter of the death penalty.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
8 Senator Paterson, are you asking Senator
9 Volker to yield or are you on the bill?
10 SENATOR PATERSON: Say again?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: Are
12 you asking Senator Volker to yield --
13 SENATOR PATERSON: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: -- or
15 are you on the bill?
16 SENATOR VOLKER: I know you won't
17 do what you just said. Go right ahead.
18 SENATOR PATERSON: See, Senator
19 Volker, I think the -- when you explain the
20 refineries that you're talking about, that's
21 their annual production. And you explained it
22 well.
23 But what I'm trying to explain to
24 you is that if you divide that over a year,
25 because it's a few weeks that they've been out
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1 of service, and you take the end product and
2 you add all those end products up, it only
3 comes out to, at the most, about 300,000
4 barrels.
5 And I'm going to tell you who I'm
6 citing as my reference on this. It's
7 President Bush. Because when they went to
8 President Bush and they asked him to use the
9 National Strategic Petroleum fund, which has
10 320 million barrels of gas, he was very
11 reluctant to use it because he knew that the
12 stream of oil during that time was relatively
13 uninterrupted. I'm not going to be shrill and
14 say that it wasn't a problem, but it wasn't a
15 problem that should have ignited that kind of
16 reaction.
17 Do you see what I'm saying?
18 SENATOR VOLKER: I see what
19 you're saying.
20 But I'm looking at the numbers
21 here, and the plants that are down go to a
22 million barrels a day. Just what I'm looking
23 at here. I don't know where that information
24 you had came from.
25 By the way, one of the reasons why
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1 the gas prices have been going down is that
2 the president waived the regulations on the
3 EPA so that they don't have to refine
4 separately. We're getting some gasoline now
5 that is not -- probably doesn't have any
6 ethanol in it. Because the president wisely
7 realized that if he didn't do that, the price
8 would go up even higher. The media, because
9 they don't understand any of this stuff,
10 didn't understand it.
11 But I think, David, the problem is
12 the distribution in this country is so tight
13 that if you knock down 12 refineries, that's
14 half the country, almost. I mean, there's no
15 way that you can avoid that.
16 And the reason, by the way, that
17 other countries haven't -- the price hasn't
18 been as high is because our country is the one
19 affected by these refineries. The other
20 countries aren't seeing the enormous
21 escalation in prices we're seeing, and that's
22 because this is a local problem.
23 You can't have the worst disaster
24 in the history of this country -- which is
25 exactly what just happened. It makes the
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1 tsunami and all that stuff look like a small
2 storm, comparatively. This is four states.
3 It is a horrendous disaster that is going to
4 take years to fix up. And part of the thing
5 we've got to fix up is our whole energy
6 industry.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
8 Senator Parker.
9 SENATOR PARKER: Mr. President, I
10 believe there's an amendment at the desk.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
12 That's correct, Senator Parker.
13 SENATOR PARKER: I ask that the
14 reading of the amendment be waived, and I ask
15 to be heard on the amendment.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: The
17 reading is waived, and you may be heard on the
18 amendment.
19 SENATOR PARKER: Thank you very
20 much, Mr. President.
21 I want to begin by thanking Senator
22 Robach for a good attempt to address this
23 crisis. I think that this disaster that
24 Hurricane Katrina brought on us affected
25 people in many different ways. I think that
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1 this is one of the things that people did not,
2 in fact, factor in.
3 And, quickly, it led to a great
4 deal of not just panic emotionally but also a
5 significant stress as it relates to people's
6 pocketbooks. We are looking at significant
7 increases to consumers, not just in fuel costs
8 but home heating this winter. It's going to
9 have a significant impact on things like
10 school districts, who are going to have a high
11 cost of fuel in terms of school buses. You
12 know, we're looking at the cost of this, you
13 know, rising into several billions as we look
14 at it nationally.
15 And I think that, you know, this
16 was a good attempt to -- this bill was a good
17 attempt to give some relief to consumers
18 quickly such that they won't have sticker
19 shock, as I got when I drove through my
20 district and saw prices jump quickly from
21 around $2.50 to $3.80.
22 However, I think that it doesn't go
23 quite far enough. And what my amendment does,
24 it explicitly authorizes and empowers all
25 localities in New York State, if they choose,
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1 the option of providing the same type of
2 exemption from the local sales tax for any
3 fuel price exceeding $2 per gallon. So in the
4 same -- just like we're saying do it for the
5 state, we're also now providing an opportunity
6 for localities who also provide taxes onto
7 fuel to also provide those same kind of relief
8 for consumers.
9 And so I ask my colleagues who are
10 so interested in providing relief to consumers
11 to vote for this amendment and allow not just
12 the state tax to be relieved but also the
13 taxes that localities add also to be relieved
14 with this amendment.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: On
16 the amendment, these Senators in agreement
17 please signify by raising your hands.
18 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
19 agreement are Senators Andrews, Breslin,
20 Brown, Diaz, Dilan, Duane, Gonzalez,
21 Hassell-Thompson, Klein, L. Krueger,
22 C. Kruger, Montgomery, Oppenheimer, Parker,
23 Paterson, Sabini, Sampson, Savino,
24 Schneiderman, Serrano, A. Smith, M. Smith,
25 Stachowski, Stavisky and Valesky.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: The
2 amendment is not agreed to.
3 Any other Senator wishing to be
4 heard on the bill?
5 Senator Krueger.
6 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
7 Mr. President. On the bill.
8 Although our conversation has been
9 all over the place and not exactly on the
10 bill, but I do have to revisit a couple of the
11 points that were made on the floor during the
12 fascinating debate.
13 For the record, I think it was
14 Senator Morahan who made the argument that
15 this kind of sales tax relief is not unlike
16 sales tax relief that we give for clothing
17 before school. Well, one of the differences,
18 in fact, is --
19 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
20 Senator Krueger, would you suffer an
21 interruption?
22 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Certainly.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: Just
24 trying to get some quiet.
25 Senator Krueger.
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1 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
2 Mr. President.
3 One, sales tax on clothing is
4 actually something we encourage people to buy.
5 And technically, petroleum products are
6 something we're supposed to be discouraging
7 people from using. So the argument about the
8 tax incentives again are not the same.
9 Second, the way we collect our tax
10 on gas is very different than the way we
11 collect our sales tax on clothing. And going
12 back to Senator Schneiderman's earlier point
13 about how would we ever document or prove
14 whether consumers received the tax reduction,
15 it's different because, on gas, the wholesaler
16 pays the tax up front, based on the --
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
18 Senator Krueger.
19 Thank you.
20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
21 The reason there's a difference in
22 the analogy of sales tax on clothing and shoes
23 and sales tax collection on gas is the gas
24 market is different and the wholesaler, not
25 the retailer, pays the tax up front, based on
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1 the market price of gasoline at the time they
2 receive the delivery. Then the retailer pays
3 the difference in prepaid sales tax by the
4 wholesaler and the actual sales price when the
5 price is above the projected price.
6 It is not an X percent over
7 whatever the label says on the clothing store
8 or the shoe store for buying a product. So in
9 fact, you couldn't track it the same way.
10 It's not a parallel analogy.
11 And again, are we talking about
12 wanting to create a giant infrastructure
13 involving AGs and DAs and tracking down who
14 did what price at 6500 different gas stations
15 in New York State, 90 percent of which are
16 independently owned?
17 We also know that the price issue
18 in gas actually doesn't have much to do with
19 the retailer at any of these 6500 different
20 gas stations and has everything to do with the
21 commodities market, as Senator Padavan
22 attempted to bring up in his discussion, and
23 the mercantile exchange market, and the spot
24 market for gas prices versus contracts.
25 And what we really need to be
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1 addressing -- and unfortunately we're not,
2 with this bill -- is the fundamental question
3 of who is controlling these gas prices, why
4 are they skyrocketing out of control, doesn't
5 really have anything to do with Hurricane
6 Katrina. Senator Volker made very eloquent
7 arguments about that.
8 But in fact we know from our own
9 research and from our own energy experts in
10 New York State that New York State's gasoline
11 supply was already in the tank, so to speak,
12 at least a four weeks' supply, when Katrina
13 hit. The prices didn't go up the next day,
14 the day after, the day after that because of
15 Katrina.
16 And it didn't go up starting with
17 Hurricane Katrina. Oil prices more than
18 tripled since late 2001, before Hurricane
19 Katrina. Between '99 and 2003, average
20 household expenditures on gasoline, heating
21 oil and natural gas increased more than
22 35 percent, and yet industry costs did not
23 increase during this period, leading to record
24 profits.
25 If the gas price in New York State
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1 remains at the current average of $3.25 a
2 gallon, New York drivers will be paying
3 $7.2 billion more than they did last year for
4 gasoline, a $7.2 billion increase to New York
5 drivers.
6 So even if I supported this bill --
7 and, Senator Robach, I'm sorry, I cannot -- a
8 $100 million savings on a new cost of
9 $7.2 billion is not addressing the problems of
10 the cost of gas in this state and for our
11 citizens.
12 And if the costs of oil and gas
13 remain at historically high levels, the cost
14 of almost all other consumer products in all
15 the sectors of our economy are going to be
16 affected. So I ask at the close, I suppose,
17 of this special session, what are we really
18 doing to address this problem for our state?
19 Again, five major oil companies
20 control 62 percent of the retail gasoline
21 market, and 10 companies control close to
22 80 percent of our oil refinery capacity.
23 Between 1997 and 2002, 34 major oil and gas
24 companies merged into 13, 15 refining
25 companies merged into seven. And the federal
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1 government's U.S. Government Accounting Office
2 found in 2004 that these mergers, increased
3 market concentrations, resulted in higher
4 gasoline prices.
5 A small number of firms dominate
6 and control our market. It is inelastic. And
7 they control what goes into the market and
8 what we pay. The extremely high barrier to
9 entry into the market makes it impossible for
10 competitors to compete or offer lower prices.
11 And the companies in control are making a
12 killing at our expense.
13 The U.S. Federal Trade Commission
14 concluded in 2001 that oil companies
15 intentionally withheld supplies of gasoline
16 from the market as a tactic to drive up prices
17 as a profit-maximizing strategy. It can't
18 come as a shock to us here in 2005 that
19 they're doing the exact same thing because of
20 Katrina. They're holding back supply to
21 increase the cost. Have we not remembered
22 Enron and the electricity story of California?
23 It's exactly the same story.
24 And it's not hard to prove. The
25 profit margins of our top five oil companies
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1 have increased in the second quarter of 2005
2 by double digits. ExxonMobil went up
3 32 percent the second quarter of 2005.
4 British Petroleum, up 37 percent. Shell, up
5 35 percent. Chevron, up 12.8 percent. And
6 ConocoPhillips, up 55 percent. We're going to
7 pay $7.2 billion more for gas in this state
8 this year than last year because these
9 companies have figured out how to control the
10 market and the prices. And, frankly, having a
11 debate with about whether somebody would keep
12 4 cents more in their pocket if we pass this
13 law does nothing to address this.
14 The federal government has allowed
15 this to take place. They have allowed the oil
16 industry to take control in a monopoly model
17 of our gas and petroleum industry. There is
18 not necessarily that much we can do at the
19 state level, to go back to my earlier
20 statements this morning -- excuse me, earlier
21 this afternoon. The federal government has to
22 act, and they have to act in the right
23 direction.
24 And yet there are just a few things
25 we can do here today. We can follow up with
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1 price gouging. And we can work together to
2 demand that federal laws change and we take
3 back the power of the people over the costs of
4 their energy.
5 And it is outrageous -- and I
6 repeat, outrageous -- that this is all
7 documented by federal reports that the profit
8 margins are skyrocketing, and we're arguing
9 over 4 cents a gallon and who might actually
10 collect it if we pass this law.
11 So I'm sorry, Senator, I know you
12 have a good goal here. But this bill will not
13 address the problem of the state and, in fact,
14 will probably create a new set of regulations
15 we won't be able to implement, negatively
16 impacting small businesses. And we've talked
17 about the problems of small gas station owners
18 here before. Most of them are independents.
19 They're not the guilty parties and they're
20 really not the culprits, as angry as we all
21 might be at having to fill up our cars at
22 these ridiculous prices.
23 We have to look at the big picture,
24 and the big picture is a federal picture and
25 questioning why we allow so few to control the
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1 prices and the destiny for so many.
2 I'll vote no on this bill, but I
3 hope we will return to this chamber to really
4 focus on the long-term issues of energy
5 pricing in this state.
6 Thank you, Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
8 Senator Valesky.
9 SENATOR VALESKY: Mr. President,
10 briefly on the bill.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
12 Senator Valesky, on the bill.
13 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you, Mr.
14 President.
15 I have listened intently to
16 arguments on both sides of this issue. After
17 all, this is probably the single reason why we
18 are here today on this twentieth day of
19 September.
20 I'm sure many of you have heard
21 from your constituents about this issue,
22 probably more than any other issue over the
23 last month and even before. Even before the
24 hurricane, high gas prices throughout the
25 summer and going back into the spring.
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1 This is a bill that I think we
2 ought to be supporting because our
3 constituents are demanding that we take
4 action. Of course the federal government
5 needs to take a more aggressive role. But the
6 people that I hear from don't want to hear the
7 blame game. They want to know that their
8 elected officials at the federal level, at the
9 state level are doing all that they can to do
10 something about high gas prices.
11 I have, in my role as ranking
12 member of the Senate Agriculture Committee,
13 spent a great deal of time this summer
14 visiting family farms, talking with members of
15 the agricultural industry, the number-one
16 industry in the state of New York. And to a
17 person, they have told me the kind of impact
18 that these high fuel costs are having on their
19 ability to do business.
20 Senator Robach indicated to us
21 earlier in this debate the average cost for
22 all of us. But for a family farmer who is
23 struggling to make ends meet, you can imagine,
24 as they harvest their crops this fall, the
25 kind of impact that these high fuel prices
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1 have.
2 This bill, is it the perfect bill?
3 I don't know if it's the perfect solution.
4 But it is something that we ought to be doing
5 here in the State of New York. I certainly
6 encourage all of my colleagues on both sides
7 of the aisle to support this measure today.
8 Thank you, Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
10 Senator Wright.
11 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Mr.
12 President.
13 As the chair of the Energy
14 Committee, I found this debate for the last
15 half hour extremely enlightening. But as
16 someone a lot smarter than me once said: It's
17 the taxes, stupid. That's what we're talking
18 about, our taxes.
19 The State of New York does not
20 control global consumption. The State of
21 New York does not control global prosperity.
22 The State of New York doesn't control the
23 refinery capacities. So everything that makes
24 up the cost of the product is essentially
25 beyond the control of New York State -- and
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1 not just the State of New York, but the other
2 49 states as well. It has to be addressed, as
3 has been pointed out, at the federal level.
4 What Senator Robach has rightfully
5 attacked is what we can control here in the
6 State Legislature, the taxation. That's what
7 this is about. Do you or do you not want to
8 cut the taxes to the people of this state when
9 it comes to their gasoline? I do. That's
10 what my constituents want. They are tired of
11 an escalating tax that increases every time
12 the volatility of the gasoline price changes.
13 What Senator Robach appropriately
14 suggests is a flat tax, a flat tax that is
15 fixed, a flat tax that is capped, a flat tax
16 that does not grow and therefore, as
17 consumers, we will not pay that tax. And I
18 for one understand if a tax is high and a tax
19 is low, I'm paying less tax.
20 I'm willing to rely on the
21 competitive market to make sure I get treated
22 fairly, as well as all of the agencies that
23 already exist. We don't need another federal
24 program or another state program to cut
25 New York State taxes. We can do that right
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1 here. It's simple. Cut them. And by doing
2 so, we will reduce the price of gasoline some
3 10 cents.
4 I don't know about you, but in my
5 neck of the woods it was $3.65 not a couple of
6 weeks ago. And I spent an awful lot of time,
7 as did most of my constituents, trying to find
8 how I could save a nickel, let alone a dime.
9 And a dime on every gallon adds up when you're
10 driving 40 miles a day back and forth to work,
11 when you're doing it every day. When you
12 drive to car to get to church, when you drive
13 a car to go to your high school basketball
14 game.
15 Everything we do in rural New York
16 involves a car. And every time you use that
17 vehicle, you're consuming gasoline. And at
18 10 cents a gallon, we're saving our taxpayers
19 money.
20 I frankly don't understand why it
21 took us so long. It's a relatively simple
22 issue this afternoon. We eliminated sales tax
23 on energy-efficient appliances earlier this
24 afternoon by a 61 to zero vote, because we're
25 all in favor of energy efficiency. And we
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1 eliminated that tax without a problem. Now,
2 when it comes to taking care of somebody's
3 principal costs in terms of gasoline in rural
4 areas of this state, we debate whether or not
5 we're going to receive it.
6 I believe we're going to receive
7 it. I believe if we have the opportunity to
8 cut the tax, take the opportunity now. And in
9 doing so, that will further enable us to look
10 out for the seniors. Because let's not
11 forget, we've already approved that program.
12 Earlier this afternoon we agreed that the
13 windfall would pay for the heat program to our
14 seniors. But we don't get it if we don't cut
15 the tax.
16 So let's get about the business. I
17 encourage all my colleagues, look at what
18 we're dealing with. We're talking about
19 cutting taxes. All the other global
20 competitive issues will get sorted out, but
21 not by the New York State Legislature and not
22 this afternoon. What we can do is what we are
23 capable of doing, and that is reducing this
24 tax. I'm fully prepared to vote yes anytime
25 anybody else is.
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1 Thank you, Mr. President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
3 Senator Parker.
4 SENATOR PARKER: Thank you, Mr.
5 President. On the bill.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
7 Senator Parker, on the bill.
8 SENATOR PARKER: Thank you.
9 Again, I want to take the
10 opportunity to thank the sponsor of this bill
11 for really having some vision about how we
12 relieve, give some financial relief to
13 taxpayers and to consumers. Because, you
14 know, as we all agree, that's one of the
15 things we love to do.
16 And I certainly respect the
17 chairman's perspective on this. As the ranker
18 on Energy and Telecommunication, we've had a
19 great opportunity to talk about these issues
20 and I'm glad to say that we more often agree
21 than not. I think this is one of those rare
22 times that we're going to disagree.
23 And I'm moved by the fact that we
24 have not paid attention to what's really
25 happening. We're looking at the doughnut
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1 hole. You know, everybody's concentrating on
2 the doughnut hole; nobody's looking at the
3 doughnut. And the real doughnut here is that
4 Hurricane Katrina did not cause prices to
5 jump.
6 And in fact, what we ought to be
7 doing and what we have not done here, ladies
8 and gentlemen, is that we have not gone after,
9 you know, price gougers. We have not put
10 forth a bill, we have not had any significant
11 debate on what do we do about price gouging,
12 which is what caused a jump in 24 hours of 70
13 to 80 cents statewide. And until, in fact, we
14 do that, we're not really dealing with what we
15 have to deal with.
16 I also want to challenge two of the
17 comments made by my colleagues across the
18 aisle, one of which is this idea that we have
19 a competitive market in the fuel industry.
20 There is not a competitive market. And you
21 have to really, you know, pull out the Fortune
22 500 and figure out that half these companies,
23 including Sunoco, Mobil and Exxon, are owned
24 by the same company. There is no competitive
25 market.
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1 And so when you talk about the
2 difference between what we're doing when we
3 are giving people taxes back on clothes
4 underneath $110 and what we're doing here, it
5 is apples and oranges. Because we're talking
6 about a very competitive retail market as
7 relates to retail clothing items and a
8 noncompetitive market when you're talking
9 about fuel companies.
10 The second thing is that I would
11 disagree with Senator Wright as it relates to
12 this idea that in fact cutting a tax in this
13 particular case is going to give us a
14 windfall. In fact, I don't understand how you
15 cut taxes and get a windfall. This is the
16 same kind of problem as led us into a
17 multi-trillion-dollar deficit on the national
18 level.
19 And in fact I argue that if we're
20 going to talk about, you know, doing the
21 enhanced STAR or giving money to LIHEAP, we in
22 fact ought not to -- which is what the
23 Manhattan Institute has said, what every other
24 major energy analyst around the country has
25 said. In fact, cutting the local taxes in
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1 fact would be the wrong way to go.
2 And so by cutting the local taxes,
3 how do you create a windfall when you're not
4 collecting money? At most, what you're going
5 to do is raise people back up to the level at
6 which they're consuming that's now dropped
7 because people can't afford to drive their
8 cars.
9 But to address that all of a sudden
10 we're going to have people running to the
11 pumps just because we've cut, you know, maybe
12 4 cents that they may not even get -- because
13 I, frankly, don't the same trust that Senator
14 Robach and Senator Wright have in the fuel
15 industry that they're going to be passing
16 these taxes on to the consumers right as soon
17 as we pass this bill.
18 And so for those reasons, I'm going
19 to be voting no on this bill.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: Any
21 other Senator wish to be heard?
22 Debate is closed.
23 The Secretary will ring the bell.
24 Read the last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
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1 act shall take effect on the 30th day.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: Call
3 the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
6 Senator Sabini, to explain his vote.
7 SENATOR SABINI: Thank you, Mr.
8 President.
9 I listened to the debate on this
10 issue, and I was torn because I do feel that
11 while essentially there is a difference
12 between this and suspending the sales tax,
13 because it's paid -- the sales tax is paid by
14 the purchaser, not by the provider, as it is
15 in gasoline.
16 But in listening to some of the
17 debate, including the debate that -- or the
18 reasons that my colleague Senator Valesky
19 raised, and understanding that many of our
20 residents in New York State do depend on the
21 auto for the necessities of life -- going to
22 the store, going to school, picking up any
23 essential items to conduct their lives -- that
24 essentially he's right, this makes life a
25 little better for those people. And that's
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1 why we're supposed to be in government, to
2 make things a little better for people.
3 So while I don't think this is the
4 ultimate silver-bullet solution, I think it is
5 better than not doing it, and I share his
6 assertion that this will make things a little
7 better for New Yorkers no matter where they
8 are.
9 I'd also like to remind my
10 colleagues, as the ranker on the
11 Transportation Committee, that we have a bond
12 issue coming up. And one of the ways to
13 conserve fuel, the bond issue will do twofold:
14 Increase mass transit and make the current
15 roads we have more fuel-efficient.
16 And we should be urging New Yorkers
17 and urging editorial boards and urging
18 interest groups to support that bond issue,
19 since we're the ones who helped put it up
20 before the voters. That will go a long way to
21 saving energy as well.
22 So I'll be voting aye. Thank you.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
24 Announce the results.
25 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
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1 the negative on Calendar Number 1998 are
2 Senators Andrews, Breslin, Diaz, Dilan, Duane,
3 Gonzalez, Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger,
4 Parker, Paterson, Schneiderman, A. Smith and
5 Stavisky.
6 Those Senators absent from voting
7 on Calendar Number 1998: Senator Onorato.
8 Ayes, 47. Nays, 13.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: The
10 bill is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1999, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print
13 5969, an act to amend the Agriculture and
14 Markets Law.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
16 Senator Smith.
17 SENATOR ADA SMITH: Thank you,
18 Mr. President. Will the sponsor yield for a
19 couple of questions?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
21 Senator Marcellino, will you yield?
22 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes.
23 SENATOR ADA SMITH: Thank you.
24 Senator Marcellino, are you
25 familiar with high-volume service stations?
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1 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I believe
2 there are several in my district.
3 SENATOR ADA SMITH: Are you aware
4 that many of these stations receive four and
5 five loads of gas per day?
6 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I do not
7 know of any station that receives four and
8 five deliveries on a daily basis.
9 SENATOR ADA SMITH: Well, there
10 are many in the City of New York.
11 Will the sponsor yield for another
12 question?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
14 Senator Marcellino, do you continue to yield?
15 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, I do.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
17 Senator Smith.
18 SENATOR ADA SMITH: Are you aware
19 that in penalizing the service stations for
20 their volume that these prices would
21 inevitably be passed on the next day rather
22 than that same day, since you're only limiting
23 it to one price hike per day?
24 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator, the
25 State of New Jersey, the State of
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1 Pennsylvania, the State of Connecticut all
2 have this legislation now in law -- including
3 the State of Wisconsin, all have the
4 legislation in law.
5 The gasoline in New Jersey,
6 Connecticut, and Pennsylvania -- I don't know
7 about Wisconsin -- all lower than New York
8 State. All less expensive. They've incurred
9 no closings, they've incurred no problems in
10 keeping the stations moving. They have
11 high-volume stations there too. There seems
12 to be no difficulty in those other states. So
13 I don't see any difficulty here.
14 The trick is to put some stability
15 for the consumer, so if he has to in some
16 cases fill up twice a day, as some people do,
17 because they travel extensively as part of
18 their jobs -- if they have to fill up twice a
19 day, they should see the same price of gas
20 from the morning to the night.
21 SENATOR ADA SMITH: Would the
22 sponsor yield for one more question?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
24 Senator Marcellino, do you continue to yield?
25 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, I do.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
2 Senator Smith.
3 SENATOR ADA SMITH: Senator
4 Marcellino, are you also aware that on each
5 delivery there is a difference in pricing?
6 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, I am.
7 SENATOR ADA SMITH: Would the
8 sponsor continue to yield?
9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes.
10 SENATOR ADA SMITH: Well, who
11 should bear it, the small service station
12 owner, who is our constituent as well --
13 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes. Yes,
14 that person is. And they're a victim too of
15 the greed of the oil companies. I won't
16 contest that. That's a fact. They're victims
17 as well.
18 But the consuming public who has to
19 depend on gasoline to deliver milk, to deliver
20 bread, to support their school districts, the
21 municipalities, all have to pay for that. The
22 price of food is going up. And there was an
23 article in the paper recently about a fear of
24 inflation due to rapidly increasing gasoline
25 prices impacting the price of a gallon of
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1 milk.
2 I think we need some stability to
3 this system.
4 SENATOR ADA SMITH: Will the
5 sponsor yield for one last question.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
7 Senator Marcellino?
8 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Sure.
9 Absolutely.
10 SENATOR ADA SMITH: And I want to
11 say that I agree that the consumer should not
12 be punished.
13 Therefore, wouldn't you agree that
14 we should be putting this penalty on the
15 distributor or the trucker rather than the
16 small businessperson?
17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: If I could
18 take care of BP and Sunoco and Conoco and all
19 the other guys in the New York State
20 Legislature, I certainly would love to do
21 that. But I don't think it's within our
22 purview to deal with them.
23 We can control prices at the pump
24 and prevent gouging at the pump. I had it in
25 my district, prices going up three and four
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1 times a day. Not because of three and four
2 deliveries a day. The New Jersey Turnpike,
3 same thing. They're high-volume dealers. And
4 so is the New York State Thruway, they're
5 high-volume. They're not jacking the price
6 up, and in many cases they'll pump the gas for
7 you.
8 SENATOR ADA SMITH: On the bill.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
10 Senator Smith, on the bill.
11 SENATOR ADA SMITH: Thank you,
12 Mr. President.
13 We're going to have disreputable
14 people no matter where, and in all lines of
15 business. But I believe that as legislators
16 we have a responsibility to punish those that
17 are responsible. And in this instance it is
18 not the small businessperson who may have a
19 gas station, but it is the distributor or the
20 trucker that should bear the burden of this
21 fine. And it certainly should not be our
22 consumers.
23 Thank you.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: Does
25 any other Senator wish to be heard?
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1 Senator Schneiderman.
2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
3 Mr. President. I believe there's an amendment
4 at the desk. I ask that the reading of the
5 amendment be waived and that I be heard on the
6 amendment.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: The
8 reading is waived, and you may be heard on the
9 amendment.
10 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
11 I have to say that, as Senator
12 Paterson and several others have noted, for
13 better or worse, this session has raised the
14 level of debate and awareness and
15 consciousness of the state's substantial
16 energy problems.
17 I do not believe that some of the
18 bills that have come before us will accomplish
19 their intended result, but I don't think
20 there's any question that on both sides of the
21 aisle we are attempting to take actions to
22 actually reduce energy prices, to encourage
23 alternative sources of energy.
24 However, my amendment that I'm
25 offering today, which really relates to
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1 Senator Marcellino's bill and also to Senator
2 Robach's bill that we discussed earlier,
3 provides a change in law that we can make that
4 would have a substantial effect, I believe, on
5 the real problem.
6 This amendment would amend the
7 price-gouging statute of the State of New York
8 so that the Attorney General and district
9 attorneys in this state can actually enforce
10 the law and prevent price gouging.
11 Now, the problem with the
12 price-gouging statute as it's currently
13 drafted is that it requires, first of all, the
14 Governor to declare a state of emergency and
15 that it has no criminal provision in it of any
16 kind limiting its use to the Attorney
17 General's office.
18 This amendment would change the law
19 in two ways. And Senator Robach has expressed
20 hope that distributors would pass reductions
21 in the sales tax along to consumers. We've
22 heard from everyone out in the wake of this
23 monumental price increase that there appears
24 to be some portion of it that is not due to
25 the hurricane, that is due to profiteering in
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1 the wake of the hurricane.
2 So I would suggest to you -- and
3 this is in all sincerity -- on the other side
4 of the aisle, we should in our house amend the
5 price-gouging statute to make it easier for
6 the Attorney General to take action and to
7 provide a criminal penalty for price gouging.
8 I'm just suggesting a violation, but that
9 gives jurisdiction to the state's district
10 attorneys. These are the people who will be
11 able to monitor whether or not distributors
12 are profiteering or they're passing the
13 savings along.
14 Absent this, Senator Marcellino's
15 bill and Senator Robach's bill are toothless
16 tigers. There is no enforcement mechanism,
17 there is no monitoring mechanism.
18 And I would suggest to Senator
19 Balboni, who has expressed an interest in the
20 powers of the Attorney General's office, that
21 in fact the price-gouging statute is not
22 something that can currently be used by our
23 sitting Attorney General or by future
24 attorneys general unless we amend it.
25 So this is an honest proposal,
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1 ladies and gentlemen. Maybe we're not going
2 to do it today, because I get the feeling that
3 our amendments seldom prevail. But I would
4 suggest that someone over there take it and
5 submit it and take a look at it. This is
6 something we can do to prevent price gouging.
7 And there is no question, I
8 believe, in the mind of anyone here that even
9 if there were some other causes of the price
10 increases, there were people increasing prices
11 far more than they needed to because of their
12 own increased costs. That's something we can
13 stop. That's something we can do something
14 about.
15 I hope that everyone will support
16 this amendment. Let's change the
17 price-gouging statute and provide some teeth
18 to the laws that we're attempting to change
19 today.
20 Thank you.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: On
22 the amendment, those Senators in agreement
23 please signify by raising your hands.
24 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
25 agreement are Senators Andrews, Breslin,
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1 Brown, Diaz, Dilan, Duane, Gonzalez,
2 Hassell-Thompson, Klein, L. Krueger,
3 Montgomery, Oppenheimer, Parker, Paterson,
4 Sabini, Sampson, Savino, Schneiderman,
5 Serrano, A. Smith, M. Smith, Stachowski,
6 Stavisky, and Valesky.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: The
8 amendment is not agreed to.
9 Any other Senator wish to be heard
10 on the bill?
11 Debate is closed.
12 The Secretary will ring the bell.
13 Read the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect one week after it shall
16 have become a law.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: Call
18 the roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 59.
21 Those Senators absent from voting
22 on Calendar Number 1999: Senators C. Kruger
23 and Onorato.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN:
25 Senator Paterson, why do you rise?
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1 SENATOR PATERSON: If we could
2 reopen the roll call, there might be a couple
3 of members who want to vote no.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: The
5 Secretary will read the roll call.
6 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
7 Calendar Number 1999, those recorded in the
8 negative are Senators Paterson, Schneiderman
9 and A. Smith.
10 Absent from voting: Senators C.
11 Kruger and Onorato.
12 Ayes, 56. Nays, 3.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: The
14 bill is passed.
15 Senator Bruno, that completes the
16 controversial reading of the calendar.
17 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, is
18 there any other business that should come
19 before us at the desk?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: No,
21 Senator Bruno.
22 SENATOR BRUNO: There is none?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: There
24 is none.
25 SENATOR BRUNO: There being no
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1 further business to come before the Senate, I
2 would move that we stand adjourned, subject to
3 the call of the leader, intervening days to be
4 legislative days.
5 And have a safe passage, all of
6 you.
7 Thank you, Mr. President. Move we
8 adjourn.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT FLANAGAN: The
10 Senate stands adjourned at the call of the
11 Majority Leader, intervening days to be
12 legislative days.
13 (Whereupon, at 7:19 p.m., the
14 Senate adjourned.)
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