Regular Session - January 16, 2007

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         1                 NEW YORK STATE SENATE

         2

         3

         4                THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

         5

         6

         7

         8

         9                   ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                   January 16, 2007

        11                       3:57 p.m.

        12

        13

        14                    REGULAR SESSION

        15

        16

        17

        18  LT. GOVERNOR DAVID A. PATERSON, President

        19  STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

        20

        21

        22

        23

        24

        25


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         1                 P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                  THE PRESIDENT:    The Senate will

         3       please come to order.

         4                  I would ask all assembled to please

         5       stand and recite with me the Pledge of

         6       Allegiance to our flag.

         7                  (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

         8       the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         9                  THE PRESIDENT:    We are very

        10       please today to be joined by Father Peter G.

        11       Young, of Mother Theresa's of Albany.

        12                  REVEREND YOUNG:    Let us pray.

        13                  Dear God, in this chamber we are

        14       proud to honor a courageous Wesley Autrey for

        15       his outstanding example to help others and one

        16       in need.

        17                  As we gather following in that

        18       tradition on this national day in order to

        19       honor this man, Martin Luther King, we call on

        20       our New York State constituents and citizens

        21       to recall his contributions and greatness to

        22       positive changes for all people.

        23                  Having personally marched with

        24       Dr. King, we feel the esteem of the dream of

        25       climbing the mountain of liberty and justice,


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         1       as symbolized in the stained glass above this

         2       podium.

         3                  May our Senators be blessed to

         4       overcome injustices by following the example

         5       of Martin, with their dedication to fairness

         6       and opportunity in all of their legislative

         7       activities.  We call upon You, O God, to

         8       provide them with the strength and the courage

         9       to be Your instruments of love and peace to

        10       all people.

        11                  THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you, Father

        12       Young, who has delivered prayer before this

        13       chamber for 48 years.  Thank you.

        14                  Reading of the Journal.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

        16       Monday, January 15, the Senate met pursuant to

        17       adjournment.  The Journal of Sunday,

        18       January 14, was read and approved.  On motion,

        19       Senate adjourned.

        20                  THE PRESIDENT:    Without

        21       objection, the Journal stands approved as

        22       read.

        23                  Presentation of petitions.

        24                  Messages from the Assembly.

        25                  Messages from the Governor.


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         1                  Reports of standing committees.

         2                  Reports of select committees.

         3                  Communications and reports from

         4       state officers.

         5                  Motions and resolutions.

         6                  The chair recognizes Senator

         7       Skelos.

         8                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes,

         9       Mr. President.  If we could take up Resolution

        10       Number 35, by Senator Parker, and have the

        11       title read.

        12                  THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

        13       will read.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

        15       Parker, Legislative Resolution Number 35,

        16       honoring Wesley Autrey, of Harlem, New York,

        17       upon his heroic actions in saving the life of

        18       a fallen citizen.

        19                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Parker

        20       wishes to be heard.  The chair recognizes

        21       Senator Parker.

        22                  SENATOR PARKER:    Thank you,

        23       Mr. President.

        24                  As all of us know by now, on

        25       January 2nd of this year something really


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         1       miraculous happened in the City of New York

         2       which -- I mean, you know I'm almost

         3       speechless to be even in the presence of

         4       someone that we are calling our subway

         5       superhero.

         6                  Mr. Wesley Autrey, who is here with

         7       us today, put his own life in imminent danger

         8       to save the life of a stranger, of a young man

         9       who had had a seizure on the platform of the

        10       137th Street station at Broadway -- taking not

        11       just his life in his own hands but also his

        12       two daughters, who looked on as this drama

        13       unfolded.

        14                  And today I'm asking you all to

        15       join with me in just honoring this act of

        16       courageousness, this bravery.

        17                  And during the King celebration we

        18       should also make sure that we also recognize

        19       his humanity, that when we start talking about

        20       the unconditional love that Dr. King preached

        21       about, that this is surely an example of that

        22       kind of love.

        23                  And we can only hope that we find a

        24       piece of what Wesley Autrey found in himself

        25       that day, just a piece of that in all of us as


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         1       we go forward.  And we hope that his act that

         2       day becomes viral and becomes contagious

         3       amongst all citizenry, not just in New York

         4       State but both this country and the world.

         5                  So, Mr. Autrey, we want to honor

         6       you.  Thank you very much for your bravery,

         7       your heroism, and really just thank you for

         8       being an exemplar of what human life can be

         9       every single day.

        10                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

        11       Hassell-Thompson.

        12                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

        13       you, Mr. President.

        14                  I too echo the sentiments of my

        15       colleague and wish to let Mr. Autrey know that

        16       it makes us proud as Senators to represent

        17       someone from the state of New York that would

        18       take an opportunity to show kindness,

        19       compassion, and concern, and in the split

        20       moment use good sense in procuring the safety

        21       of himself and this young man.

        22                  It is with great pride that I will

        23       be a signator on this resolution declaring you

        24       as a true hero in the best sense of the word.

        25       We thank you.


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         1                  THE PRESIDENT:    The chair

         2       recognizes Senator Perkins.

         3                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Thank you very

         4       much, Mr. President, for this opportunity to

         5       make my first speech in such a momentous

         6       occasion.

         7                  And if I may brag a moment, that's

         8       a constituent of mine.  In fact, it's one of

         9       Harlem's finest, obviously.  So I don't really

        10       want to say too much, except to thank my

        11       colleague Kevin Parker for the leadership that

        12       he has shown this bringing him to this body.

        13                  I want to thank him so much for

        14       making all of us, not just in Harlem but

        15       throughout our city, throughout our state,

        16       proud.  I think you represent an example of

        17       what we all can be as legislators, as public

        18       servants.  And we look forward to keeping you

        19       in mind as we move forward in trying to serve

        20       the people of the State of New York.

        21                  I would like to at this time ask

        22       that this resolution be opened up for

        23       cosponsorship to the entire body.

        24                  Thank you very much, Mr. President.

        25                  THE PRESIDENT:    We will wait to


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         1       pass the resolution first, Senator Perkins.

         2                  Would anyone else like to be heard

         3       on the resolution?

         4                  Senator Huntley.

         5                  SENATOR HUNTLEY:    Yes.  I would

         6       like to take this time to tell this gentleman,

         7       on such a time of Dr. Martin Luther King and

         8       his birthday and the celebration, and for you

         9       to come today.

        10                  And as we know, Dr. King always

        11       talked about people helping people, people

        12       believing in people and a better life for our

        13       young people, our families.  And you are an

        14       example of all of that.  And I would say to

        15       you -- and also, I know your daughters live in

        16       my district -- it is such an honor to have

        17       people like you and your family amongst us

        18       again.

        19                  Thank you so much.

        20                  THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

        21       Senator Huntley.

        22                  Senator Adams.

        23                  SENATOR ADAMS:    This must be New

        24       Senator Day, because I want to join and add my

        25       voice.


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         1                  Clearly, I served as a police

         2       officer in the transit system, so I'm well

         3       aware of what a train can do.  And I'm well

         4       aware of how much it takes to jump on the

         5       tracks in the first place and then to use the

         6       initiative and courage to protect someone.

         7                  And I think that people often

         8       romanticize Dr. King, but they fail to realize

         9       that during that moment that there were

        10       costars.  And those costars were ordinary

        11       people that were willing to do extraordinary

        12       things.  And you're a representative and a

        13       reflection of the costars that move this great

        14       country ahead.

        15                  And I think that the best we can do

        16       is to make sure that your voice and your story

        17       is heard not only across New York State but

        18       across the country, because our children need

        19       to know that all we need to do is do ordinary

        20       thing in extraordinary ways and we will

        21       continue to be like you were.

        22                  And thank you very much for your

        23       show of support and your show of strength and

        24       courage.

        25                  THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,


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         1       Senator Adams.

         2                  Are there any other new or old

         3       Senators that would like to be heard on this

         4       motion?

         5                  Senator Maltese.

         6                  SENATOR MALTESE:    Mr. President,

         7       as a resident of the city, I wish to join my

         8       colleagues in extolling the virtues of this

         9       heroic man.

        10                  As someone who has traveled the

        11       subway and am familiar with the perils of the

        12       subway, to think of the heroism of instantly

        13       leaping onto the tracks to save a person that

        14       he didn't know is such an act of heroism that

        15       it has truly been extolled by all the

        16       residents of not only the city but, as has

        17       been said by my colleague, by the state and

        18       the nation.

        19                  At a time when some of us may need

        20       a reminder of heroism and someone who puts his

        21       self aside for the welfare of others, this is

        22       a shining example.  I join my colleagues in

        23       this resolution that commends a hero, Wesley

        24       Autrey.  And I wish to join in this resolution

        25       as an example to his fellow New Yorkers and


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         1       his fellow Americans of a true American hero.

         2                  THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you for

         3       those kind words, Senator Maltese.

         4                  Senator DeFrancisco.

         5                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I don't

         6       know whether I qualify as a new or old

         7       Senator, but we don't have any subways in

         8       Syracuse.

         9                  But when I heard of this act of

        10       heroism, I truly couldn't believe it.  I truly

        11       couldn't believe it.  In this day and age of

        12       skeptics and people who are cynical about

        13       everything and talking about situations where

        14       we don't do good things for our fellow man, to

        15       see something like this happening in our state

        16       is truly uplifting.

        17                  It's truly an honor to have you a

        18       citizen of the State of New York.  And I can't

        19       say anything more than that, because it's

        20       beyond words what you did.  And hopefully you

        21       will be an example for many, many more people

        22       to put others ahead of themselves, not only in

        23       situations like you were faced with, but also

        24       in situations whether it's government or

        25       otherwise.


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         1                  And you are truly a hero and truly

         2       an unbelievable human being.

         3                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Diaz.

         4                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Thank you,

         5       Mr. President.

         6                  I also rise up to join my

         7       colleagues in congratulating our hero.  And

         8       how good we feel to see that someone from the

         9       City of New York has become such a model for

        10       everyone else.

        11                  And by doing this and by we talking

        12       about him, I also want to remind everyone that

        13       don't forget that a miracle, a miracle happens

        14       here.  And that shows our city and our state

        15       that there is God and that he's always

        16       looking, watching, protecting us in those

        17       moments when we most need him.  He's always

        18       there.

        19                  And there is a time here when I'm

        20       seeing in you, my friend, a miracle.  I'm

        21       seeing in you the hand of God, the power of

        22       God telling us I'm still -- I'm still -- I am

        23       who I am, and I'm protecting you.

        24                  So congratulations on that heroic

        25       achievement.  But remember always, God is with


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         1       you.  God bless you, brother.

         2                  THE PRESIDENT:    The chair

         3       recognizes Senator Marcellino.

         4                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,

         5       Mr. President.

         6                  Mr. Autrey, I hope you understand

         7       what we do here to a large extent is we

         8       produce laws which are designed to prevent

         9       people from doing bad things, to try to help

        10       people against others who would do them ill.

        11                  There's no way we could pass

        12       legislation, even this resolution, that would

        13       say thank you enough for the effort that you

        14       did.  I'm sure your family is glad you

        15       survived, and I'm sure they told you don't

        16       ever do it again.  I know that's what my wife

        17       would say.  So in that case, listen to your

        18       family.

        19                  But this one time I'm glad you did,

        20       and I'm glad you did the right thing.  God

        21       bless you, sir.

        22                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

        23       Stewart-Cousins.

        24                  SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS:    Thank

        25       you, Mr. President.


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         1                  Mr. Autrey, I just wanted to tell

         2       you that your influence continues, because

         3       frankly I was not going to stand up.  But

         4       because you stood up, I stood up, and so many

         5       of the new members stood.

         6                  And I frankly can't think of

         7       anything more auspicious to do as I start this

         8       session than to commend someone like you.  It

         9       has raised the level completely.  And I'm

        10       certainly honored that the first thing I say

        11       is to thank you for being exactly who you are.

        12                  Thank you.

        13                  THE PRESIDENT:    The question is

        14       on the resolution.  All in favor please

        15       indicate by saying aye.

        16                  (Response of "Aye.")

        17                  THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

        18                  (No response.)

        19                  THE PRESIDENT:    The resolution

        20       carries.

        21                  Senator Marcellino.

        22                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Yes,

        23       Mr. President.  If we could follow the normal

        24       custom of the house, I believe which was

        25       requested earlier by one of my colleagues,


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         1       that we open the resolution up to all members

         2       to sign on, unless otherwise indicated to the

         3       chair.

         4                  THE PRESIDENT:    The resolution

         5       will be declared unanimous.  Anyone wishing

         6       not to be on the resolution may indicate at

         7       the desk.

         8                  Wesley Autrey of Manhattan,

         9       New York, on behalf of the members of the

        10       Senate and our great leader, Senator Bruno, we

        11       want to thank you for this heroic and

        12       courageous act which has inspired people all

        13       around the world.

        14                  The most notable and profound of

        15       the commentary that I heard from people who

        16       have borne witness to your act was when you

        17       appeared on the David Letterman Show.  And

        18       when asked, you said you did what anyone would

        19       have done.  And David Letterman immediately

        20       said he would not have jumped from the subway

        21       tracks to save anybody.

        22                  (Laughter.)

        23                  THE PRESIDENT:    But the fact is

        24       that in the spirit of oneness where we're all

        25       part of the same, and in that concept that we


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         1       love thy neighbor as we would love ourselves,

         2       which is embodied by all the religions of the

         3       world, we here in the Senate have not greeted

         4       anyone more deserving than your heroic act.

         5       And we thank you for joining us here today.

         6                  (Standing ovation.)

         7                  THE PRESIDENT:    The chair

         8       recognizes Senator Marcellino.

         9                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.

        10       President, there is another resolution,

        11       Number 125, by Senator Smith.  Will you have

        12       it read in its entirety.

        13                  THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

        14       will read.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator Smith,

        16       Legislation Resolution Number 125,

        17       commemorating the 78th birthday of the

        18       Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., and

        19       paying tribute to his life and

        20       accomplishments.

        21                  "WHEREAS, From time to time we take

        22       note of certain individuals whom we wish to

        23       recognize for their valued contributions and

        24       to publicly acknowledge their endeavors which

        25       have enhanced the basic humanity among us all;


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         1       and

         2                  "WHEREAS, Attendant to such

         3       concern, and in full accord with its

         4       long-standing traditions, it is the intent of

         5       this Legislative Body to commemorate the 78th

         6       birthday of the Reverend Doctor Martin Luther

         7       King, Jr., and pay tribute to his life and

         8       accomplishments; and

         9                  "WHEREAS, His birthday was

        10       proclaimed a national holiday in 1986.  Had he

        11       lived, Martin Luther King, Jr., would be

        12       78 years old; and

        13                  "WHEREAS, Martin Luther King, Jr.,

        14       was born January 15, 1929.  At birth, his

        15       first name was Michael, but was later changed

        16       to Martin.  He graduated from high school at

        17       the age of 15, and in 1948, he earned a

        18       Bachelor of Arts degree from Morehouse

        19       College; and

        20                  "WHEREAS, After three years of

        21       theological study at Crozer Theological

        22       Seminary in Pennsylvania, where he was elected

        23       president of a predominantly white senior

        24       class, he was awarded a Bachelor of Divinity

        25       degree in 1951.  With a fellowship from


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         1       Crozer, he enrolled in graduate studies at

         2       Boston University, completing his residency

         3       for his doctorate in 1953 and receiving the

         4       degree in 1955; and

         5                  "WHEREAS, While in Boston, Martin

         6       Luther King, Jr., met and married Coretta

         7       Scott, a young woman of uncommon intellectual

         8       and artistic attainments.  Two sons and two

         9       daughters were born into the family; and

        10                  "WHEREAS, in 1954, Martin Luther

        11       King, Jr., accepted the pastorate of the

        12       Dexter Avenue Baptist Church in Montgomery,

        13       Alabama.  Always a strong worker for civil

        14       rights for members of his race, he was at this

        15       time a member of the executive committee of

        16       the NAACP; and

        17                  "WHEREAS, In early December 1955,

        18       Martin Luther King, Jr., was ready to accept

        19       the leadership of the first great Negro

        20       nonviolent demonstration of contemporary times

        21       in the United States, the bus boycott

        22       described by Gunnar Jahn in his presentation

        23       speech in honor of the laureate; and

        24                  "WHEREAS, The bus boycott lasted

        25       382 days.  On December 21, 1956, after the


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         1       Supreme Court declared unconstitutional the

         2       laws requiring segregation on buses in the

         3       South, Negroes and whites rode buses as

         4       equals; and

         5                  "WHEREAS, In 1957, Martin Luther

         6       King, Jr., was elected president of the

         7       Southern Christian Leadership Conference, an

         8       organization formed to provide new leadership

         9       for the burgeoning civil rights movement.  The

        10       ideals of this group were taken from

        11       Christianity, and its operational techniques

        12       from Gandhi; and

        13                  "WHEREAS, In the 11-year period

        14       between 1957 and 1968, Martin Luther King,

        15       Jr., traveled over 6 million miles and spoke

        16       over 2500 times, appearing wherever there was

        17       injustice, protest and action; and

        18                  "WHEREAS, In 1964, at age 35,

        19       Martin Luther King, Jr., was the youngest man

        20       to receive the Nobel Peace Prize.  He was also

        21       the recipient of more than 300 awards for his

        22       invaluable contribution to the improvement of

        23       race relations in America, and before his

        24       death, he wrote five books and numerous

        25       articles; and


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         1                  "WHEREAS, During his life, Dr. King

         2       endeavored to inspire within all of us a

         3       different and better way of thinking, premised

         4       on a renewed sense of faith, strength, and

         5       commitment:  The faith to believe what our

         6       forefathers proclaimed, that all men and women

         7       are created equal; the strength to look beyond

         8       prejudices of skin color so as to see the

         9       content of one's character; and the collective

        10       commitment to grow our country from an infancy

        11       rife with mistakes and oppression into an

        12       enlightened adulthood of mutual respect and

        13       understanding; and

        14                  "WHEREAS, Upon the occasion of the

        15       observance of the 78th birthday of Dr. Martin

        16       Luther King, Jr., it is the intent of this

        17       Legislative Body to commemorate the heroic

        18       actions of Dr. King, who loved and served

        19       humanity, and who was an advocate for peace,

        20       justice and righteousness; now, therefore, be

        21       it

        22                  "RESOLVED, That this Legislative

        23       Body pause in its deliberations to commemorate

        24       the 78th birthday of the Reverend Doctor

        25       Martin Luther King, Jr., and pay tribute to


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         1       his life and be accomplishments; and be it

         2       further

         3                  "RESOLVED, That a copy of this

         4       resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

         5       to the New York State Black, Puerto Rican and

         6       Hispanic Legislative Caucus."

         7                  THE PRESIDENT:    On the

         8       resolution, Senator Smith.

         9                  SENATOR SMITH:    Thank you very

        10       much, Mr. President.

        11                  Yesterday would have been Martin

        12       Luther King's 78th birthday.  What he stood

        13       for, which we all know today, was not only for

        14       justice and civil rights but also for

        15       fairness.

        16                  In addition to that, he also stood

        17       for something that we strive for every day in

        18       our life, and that is continued improvement.

        19       You know, the Japanese have a phrase called

        20       "kaizen."  It was actually birthed by a

        21       gentleman by the name of W.E. Deming, who was

        22       the father of a theory and discipline called

        23       "continuous improvement."

        24                  What we are doing each and every

        25       day of our lives, what we are doing, in the


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         1       spirit of Martin Luther King, is continually

         2       trying to improve our lives.  Just 45 minutes

         3       ago, Mr. President -- and you were there

         4       also -- we had a press conference with our

         5       Governor, the Majority Leader, the Speaker of

         6       the Assembly, and we have reached what many

         7       have thought would not happen, an agreement on

         8       a budget reform process.

         9                  Here we are on the sunset of Martin

        10       Luther King's birthday, which was yesterday,

        11       and we have the good news that we can bring to

        12       the people of this state, which essentially

        13       says to them we got their message.  The

        14       message was we want to make sure the

        15       government of this state works for everyone.

        16       We want to make sure the government of this

        17       state is responsive.  And, equally, we want to

        18       make sure that there are reforms that are put

        19       in place.

        20                  I think Martin would have been

        21       happy this day after his birthday had he been

        22       here.  One day after his 78th birthday, he'd

        23       have been able to stand and say, Well, at

        24       least in the north United States, a place

        25       called New York State, they have recognized


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         1       the importance of doing what the people ask.

         2       We have reached an agreement on a budget

         3       process.

         4                  In addition, he would also ask, if

         5       he was here this day, that we take it a step

         6       further and that we do again what the people

         7       of this state have asked for, and that is to

         8       have a government that is by the people, for

         9       the people.

        10                  And also that would mean we would

        11       have certain rules that govern this body that

        12       allow for each and every member to have not

        13       only a vote but to make sure that that

        14       particular vote is not only cast but is also

        15       understood, recognized, and that the people of

        16       this state know exactly where people stand.

        17                  So I think as we celebrate his

        18       birthday today, 39 years of when he died, 39

        19       to this date, to yesterday -- he would be 78

        20       years yesterday -- I think we need to reflect

        21       not only on what Martin wanted for each and

        22       every one of us, but we should also reflect on

        23       what it is we want for our families.

        24                  Each and every one of us have

        25       someone in our family, somebody in our life


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         1       that we can look at and say, You know, I

         2       believe that all that Martin stood for is what

         3       I want for you.  I want my son or daughter to

         4       be treated equal.  I want the members of this

         5       Senate body to be treated equal.

         6                  I don't want to just stand here and

         7       say that hopefully one day black children,

         8       white children will be able to sing that old

         9       Negro spiritual and say "free at last, free at

        10       last."  What I'd rather say is that one day

        11       we'll be able to stand on the floor of this

        12       Senate and that Democrats and Republicans can

        13       all stand up and be able to say not only that

        14       we are free at last, but our votes are cast

        15       and are recognized by everybody.

        16                  That's the day that we strive for.

        17       That's the day that we look for.  I think this

        18       is a great day that we celebrate Martin Luther

        19       King's birthday.  But I also think it is also

        20       a great time for us to be good to one another.

        21                  It's also a great time for us to be

        22       able to say to one another, when we leave

        23       these chambers today, that he did not die in

        24       vain 39 years ago and that we are going to

        25       be -- not only to receive the challenge, but


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         1       we're going to be brave in what we do and do

         2       some of the things that we think are difficult

         3       for us to do, as we know change is difficult.

         4       But we also know sometimes change has to be

         5       done in order to make the wrongs right.

         6                  With that, Mr. President, I thank

         7       you for allowing us to bring this resolution

         8       before us today.  I must tell you that, in the

         9       spirit of friendship, you are my Martin Luther

        10       King.  It's a pleasure to have you standing

        11       before us presiding.

        12                  Thank you.

        13                  THE PRESIDENT:    Are there any

        14       other members that wish to speak on the

        15       resolution?

        16                  Senator Larkin.

        17                  SENATOR LARKIN:    Thank you,

        18       Mr. President.

        19                  You know, Dr. Martin Luther King

        20       was a name that I only knew by the media until

        21       February 1965.  In February 1965, as you and I

        22       personally discussed, there was a meeting in

        23       the Pentagon.  And it was said that there

        24       would be a march from Selma to Montgomery.

        25       And the problem was that Governor Wallace was


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         1       stubborn and had to be addressed.

         2                  On the 7th of March, there was an

         3       encounter on the bridge, with the bullhorns

         4       and the fire hoses, by a police chief by the

         5       name of Connor.  And it was dismissed.

         6                  Another trial had happened, and at

         7       that time the president and the Attorney

         8       General, Ramsey Clark, and President Johnson

         9       ordered that a joint venture by the armed

        10       forces go to Selma, first to try to solve the

        11       problem with the governor.

        12                  There was a young Army colonel,

        13       better looking than he is today, who was

        14       assigned that mission.  When I went out and

        15       talked to a full colonel by the name of

        16       O'Brien, he said, "We're not taking it.

        17       Mr. Wallace's answer to me was if the

        18       president wants to activate the Alabama guard,

        19       let him do it.  We will not do it."

        20                  We went back to the Pentagon, and

        21       we did organize.  We had the First Signal

        22       Group from Fort Lewis, Washington; the 11th

        23       Air Assault from Fort Benning; the 82nd from

        24       Bragg; the 720th from Fort Hood; and other

        25       units from Fort Riley.  And we put together


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         1       the march from Selma to Montgomery, an

         2       integration of civil rights units, of which I

         3       don't know how many in this chamber know it,

         4       but the Lieutenant Governor's father, Basil,

         5       was one of the front-line marchers with

         6       Dr. King on that Sunday that we marched.

         7                  You know, if you look back at it,

         8       the memories it serves for me were most

         9       interesting.  First of all, we had this

        10       bastion of people trying to let other people

        11       know there's something wrong with our society

        12       and we ought to start to look at how we can

        13       integrate without being ashamed of ourself.  I

        14       know people who said, "Well, I'd like to do

        15       it, but."  Well, you really didn't want to do

        16       it, but the "but" was a big asinine word as

        17       far as I was concerned.

        18                  And we marched.  I don't know how

        19       many people here remember that there were

        20       three threats on Martin Luther King's life

        21       during that march.  At the last end of the

        22       march, we flew back to Andrews Air Force Base,

        23       and on the plane with us was the attorney

        24       general, and a bunch of others.  And we were

        25       getting ready to get off, and they said


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         1       there's been a killing.  A lady by the name of

         2       Viola Liuzzo, who was a part of the UAW out of

         3       Detroit, who was down there representing her

         4       unit, was shot and killed that day.

         5                  If I ever saw a group of people

         6       trying to work out the little crunches, it was

         7       very successful.  Between the military -- many

         8       of us had civilian clothes on for that week.

         9       But there was something about it.  Every day

        10       when you marched, we had trains so that we

        11       could get the supplies up.  And we had

        12       engineers checking all the rail lines to find

        13       out if they'd been dynamited or something.

        14                  There was a threat one night that

        15       Dr. King's trailer was going to be blown up,

        16       and he had to be relocated.

        17                  You know, if you think about our

        18       country and think about what happened in 1865,

        19       you start to wonder about how low we stooped

        20       to attempt to kill our fellow Americans.  And

        21       I don't have to take a back seat to anybody,

        22       because I also commanded an all-black

        23       company -- that's what they were known -- from

        24       '49 to '51.  Had a great, great unit.

        25                  And I stand here today to say, my


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         1       first encounter with Dr. King was he looked at

         2       myself and Colonel Kingman and he said, "I

         3       pray for you and I thank you both for what

         4       you're doing.  Please, please, do not let any

         5       violence take place."  And that was the last

         6       time I said anything to him for the rest of

         7       the march.

         8                  But it was just common sense that

         9       if we could do that on one day, after all the

        10       thrashing that went on, I think that this

        11       world could use a little more of Dr. Martin

        12       Luther King's theory -- not in principle, but

        13       in practice.

        14                  Thank you.

        15                  THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

        16       Colonel Larkin.

        17                  Senator Maltese.

        18                  SENATOR MALTESE:    Mr. President,

        19       I rise to join the resolution, join the

        20       support of the resolution.

        21                  Dr. Martin Luther King was truly an

        22       inspiration.  His example of selfless

        23       sacrifice and dedication to the cause of peace

        24       inspires hundreds of thousands and millions

        25       across the country.


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         1                  I have, as many know, the honor of

         2       being chairman of the board of Christ the King

         3       Regional High School, and one of our seniors,

         4       an honor student, had the honor of being

         5       chosen as one of five recipients in the entire

         6       state of the Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.,

         7       Humanitarian Award.

         8                  The young lady inspired by

         9       Dr. Martin Luther King was so active in a

        10       variety of causes, raising money for

        11       starvation in Darfur, raising money again

        12       against the scourge of leprosy for the Damian

        13       Society, working on behalf of other groups,

        14       the victims of floods and famines.  In a

        15       person so young, it's remarkable that she

        16       would rise to such heights.

        17                  We honored earlier today a heroic

        18       man.  That could truly be said to be in the

        19       spirit of Dr. Martin Luther King, who

        20       constantly, at threat of his own life and

        21       ultimately at the cost of his life, stood for

        22       peace and humanity.

        23                  It's my honor today, in that same

        24       spirit and dedication, to introduce to this

        25       body the young lady who is the recipient of


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         1       the Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Humanitarian

         2       Award given by the State of New York

         3       yesterday, and she is present here.  Her name

         4       is Joanna Kurylo, and she is accompanied by

         5       her mother and father, Anatola Kurylo and

         6       Gonafra Kurylo.  And I'd like to introduce

         7       them at this time.

         8                  They are immigrants from Poland and

         9       truly exemplify what Martin Luther King stood

        10       for, without regard to race or religion,

        11       standing forth in the true spirit of

        12       dedication and humanity.

        13                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        14                  (Applause.)

        15                  THE PRESIDENT:    The chair

        16       recognizes Senator Adams.

        17                  SENATOR ADAMS:    Mr. President, I

        18       too stand in support of the resolution.

        19                  A story that's not often told, when

        20       Dr. King was a child, he witnessed his older

        21       brother slide down the bannister and bump into

        22       his grandmother, knocked her to the ground.

        23       Dr. King, seeing this, thought his grandmother

        24       died.  He ran up to the second floor of his

        25       home and jumped out the window in an attempt


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         1       to kill himself.

         2                  What would have happened if we

         3       would have lost Dr. King?  How would our lives

         4       have been different?  How far would our

         5       maturity of getting along with each other have

         6       changed?

         7                  I raise that question because I

         8       ask, how many Dr. Kings have we lost through

         9       senseless gun violence?  How many Dr. Kings

        10       will never become who and what they ought to

        11       be because we have not yet as a state taken

        12       control of the overproliferation of guns on

        13       our city streets?  How many secrets of cancer

        14       and AIDS and other important discoveries in a

        15       scientific capacity will never be found

        16       because of the thousands of children each year

        17       who die because of illegal handguns?

        18                  The question must be what are we

        19       going to do as a Senate body, not only to

        20       protect those potential Dr. Kings of tomorrow,

        21       but to protect the countless number of

        22       uniformed officers in the police agencies

        23       throughout this state, to ensure once and for

        24       all we rein in the senseless overproliferation

        25       of guns on our streets, and demand that those


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         1       who sell guns to safeguard and protect our

         2       constituents and citizens.

         3                  It's one thing to say we praise and

         4       champion Dr. King, but it's another thing to

         5       say we're turning his dream into a nightmare

         6       when illegal guns are on our streets.

         7                  Thank you, Mr. President.

         8                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Diaz.

         9                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Thank you,

        10       Mr. President.

        11                  I also rise to join in the

        12       resolution and also to say that even though I

        13       never met Dr. Martin Luther King, never even

        14       encountered him in any demonstration -- I

        15       didn't march with him, I did not participate

        16       in any of those historic marches like many of

        17       you did, and like many other people.

        18                  However, the only thing that I know

        19       is that I was 18 years old in 1960 in Puerto

        20       Rico.  I was born in Puerto Rico and I grew up

        21       in Puerto Rico.  And that was the Vietnam era.

        22       And I decided to join the great American Army

        23       to fight for my country and to go and even put

        24       my life in jeopardy, because I believe in the

        25       American dream.  Even though I didn't know --


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         1       I mean, I never knew Martin Luther King.

         2                  I was sent from Puerto Rico, a

         3       young guy 18 years old, to Columbia, South

         4       Carolina, to Fort Jackson for my basic

         5       training.  And when I got there, 18 years old,

         6       proud to be member of the American armed

         7       forces, I learned over there the abuses, the

         8       discrimination and the things that I even went

         9       through that I don't wish any other human

        10       being to go through.  They called me "spic."

        11                  They even, when I went to a bar to

        12       get -- on my first pass, I sat down in a bar

        13       and they told me, "Whatever you're looking

        14       for, we haven't got it."  Even though they

        15       served all my other friends from Puerto Rico

        16       who were white.

        17                  And I had to leave that

        18       establishment.  And when I went outside, they

        19       chased me, running after me.  I'm not wearing

        20       my uniform.  And I was running from the town

        21       to Fort Jackson.  In the entrance of Fort

        22       Jackson, thanks to the MPs there, they

        23       stopped.

        24                  So even though I never knew Martin

        25       Luther King, and people are celebrating his


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         1       day and all what he did, I'm very glad, I'm

         2       very honored that he went to these marches and

         3       that he took away our burden and that a young

         4       guy like me from Puerto Rico could join the

         5       Army, a young black guy from Puerto Rico could

         6       join the Army now and go to Fort Jackson, sit

         7       down with anybody else, eat in any other place

         8       and participate in any other activity that

         9       anybody else could participate.

        10                  So you don't have to be an American

        11       living in America or an African-American to

        12       understand about Martin Luther King.  I am

        13       black, I'm Puerto Rican, I'm from Puerto Rico.

        14       I could tell you that Martin Luther King did a

        15       lot of things for us Puerto Ricans too.  And I

        16       join all of you, my friends, and I tip my hat

        17       before Martin Luther King, Reverend Wyatt Tee

        18       Walker, Reverend Jesse Jackson.

        19                  And I also would like to say to

        20       those friends at the New York Post, leave

        21       Reverend Al Sharpton alone.

        22                  Thank you very much, Mr. President.

        23                  (Laughter.)

        24                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Perkins.

        25                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Thank you very


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         1       much, Mr. President.

         2                  I want to obviously join in on this

         3       resolution and join in the remarks made by our

         4       Minority Leader and sponsor, Malcolm Smith, in

         5       terms of the role that this body can play in

         6       the spirit of Dr. King.

         7                  I'm reminded of two campaigns that

         8       Dr. King embarked upon before his unfortunate

         9       assassination.  The first, in 1967, he

        10       declared his opposition to the war in Vietnam.

        11       It's very significant because in that

        12       declaration he was not simply concerned about

        13       the death and destruction but also about the

        14       fact that funds, public dollars that were

        15       focused on a War on Poverty were redirected to

        16       a war that he considered -- and I join him in

        17       that consideration -- an unholy war in

        18       Vietnam.

        19                  And the second campaign that I'm

        20       reminded of is his campaign to end poverty in

        21       this country, his campaign that he started and

        22       unfortunately which he never was able to

        23       fulfill because he was assassinated upon

        24       announcing that campaign.

        25                  And it would seem to me that while


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         1       this body may not be able to end the war, we

         2       may have a role to play with regard to the

         3       problems of poverty.  We see it not just in

         4       the Harlems of this state but where, for

         5       instance, even in New York City children are

         6       still being poisoned by lead, as was reported

         7       in recent newspapers this week, the Daily News

         8       in particular.  Governmental intervention

         9       leading to that, it would seem to me that

        10       other manifestations of that kind of poverty,

        11       this body I would hope, as a new member

        12       inspired by the possibilities of this body,

        13       would want to direct its legislative might and

        14       other wherewithals, so that we can at least in

        15       that respect fulfill the dream of Dr. King

        16       that poverty, that public intervention is a

        17       possibility, a very important possibility, a

        18       moral imperative, if you will, to address the

        19       pervasive poverty not just, again, in the

        20       Harlems of this community but throughout this

        21       state and throughout this country.

        22                  So I would hope that we can look at

        23       Dr. King with that kind of recommitment.

        24                  Thank you.

        25                  THE PRESIDENT:    The question is


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         1       on the resolution.  All in favor please

         2       indicate by saying aye.

         3                  (Response of "Aye.")

         4                  THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

         5                  (No response.)

         6                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

         7                  SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you,

         8       Mr. President.

         9                  Senator Smith would like this

        10       resolution to be opened for cosponsorship to

        11       the entire Senate body.  Thank you,

        12       Mr. President.

        13                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

        14       Marcellino.

        15                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Yes,

        16       Mr. President.  I'm glad that was proposed.

        17       And if we could follow the normal procedure.

        18                  THE PRESIDENT:    All those not

        19       wishing to be om the resolution may indicate

        20       so at the desk.

        21                  The resolution is adopted in the

        22       spirit that when we honor Dr. Martin Luther

        23       King we are also honoring, over the last 200

        24       years, those Americans, black and white,

        25       living and dead, who struggled unremittingly


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         1       and courageously to bring to this country the

         2       true meaning to the end of our pledge of

         3       allegiance, there would be equality and

         4       justice for all.

         5                  And not the least among those

         6       Americans who fought for that is our colleague

         7       Senator Bill Larkin.

         8                  Senator Marcellino.

         9                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.

        10       President, we have another resolution, a

        11       privileged concurrent resolution, Number 115,

        12       by Senator Bruno.  Could we have the title

        13       read, please.

        14                  THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

        15       will read.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator Bruno,

        17       Concurrent Resolution of the Senate and

        18       Assembly Number 115, authorizing the Senate

        19       and Assembly of New York State to purchase

        20       copies of the New York Red Book for 2007-2008.

        21                  THE PRESIDENT:    On the

        22       resolution, the Secretary will call the roll.

        23                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 56.

        25                  THE PRESIDENT:    The resolution is


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         1       adopted.

         2                  Senator Marcellino.

         3                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.

         4       President, I believe we have another

         5       resolution, Number 128, by Senator Smith.

         6       Could we have the title read, please, at this

         7       time.

         8                  THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

         9       will read.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator Smith,

        11       Senate Resolution Number 128, to adopt the

        12       rules of the Senate for the years 2007-2008.

        13                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

        14                  SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you,

        15       Mr. President.

        16                  I do believe we have at the desk a

        17       resolution which the Senate Democratic

        18       conference has put together which is a

        19       proposal for the Senate rules.  And I believe,

        20       Mr. President, very, very strongly that this

        21       entire body should find them fair, open and

        22       honest.

        23                  It's time to let the sunshine in

        24       this chamber, Mr. President.  And I think we

        25       can all agree that we have really, frankly,


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         1       been embarrassed enough.  And that

         2       embarrassment is quite public, and it's based

         3       on the stagnation and the dysfunction that we

         4       have seen here in Albany.

         5                  Now, at the same time, we do pride

         6       ourselves here in the Senate of being able to

         7       make real change for the people of the State

         8       of New York, and we are now being provided

         9       with an opportunity to make for real and

        10       substantive change in our Senate chamber.

        11                  You know, we are only as strong as

        12       our rules in this body.  And who could

        13       disagree that having strong, fair, honest,

        14       open rules would in any way weaken anyone in

        15       this house?  In fact, I think the claim could

        16       be appropriately made that strong, fair,

        17       honest, and open rules make all of us

        18       stronger.

        19                  So on the desk is our rules

        20       resolution.  We will hear from several members

        21       of our conference on these rules and why we

        22       need these rules.  And so with that,

        23       Mr. President, let's begin the discussion on

        24       our resolution on improving the rules of the

        25       New York State Senate.


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         1                  THE PRESIDENT:    On the

         2       resolution.  The chair recognizes Senator

         3       Parker.

         4                  SENATOR PARKER:    Thank you,

         5       Mr. President.  I rise today as we engage in

         6       this conversation about rules, this idea of

         7       reform.  In this last election we saw that the

         8       voters of the State of New York overwhelmingly

         9       asked, Mr. President, for there to be

        10       significant reform in the way that we do

        11       business.

        12                  A number of years ago, we got

        13       pegged with being the most dysfunctional

        14       legislature in the country.  And in some ways

        15       that was very true in part because of the

        16       rules that we have here, and specifically

        17       around the issue of equal resources for

        18       Senators.

        19                  Right now, there are very unequal

        20       resources for Senators in this chamber based

        21       on party affiliation.  And that shouldn't be

        22       the case.  Members of this body all represent

        23       roughly, you know, 310,000 people.  In fact,

        24       according to the number that I've seen, most

        25       of the Democratic Senators represent roughly


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         1       10 percent more than the average Republican

         2       Senator in this body, yet we receive

         3       substantially less in terms of resources.

         4                  I don't think that the members of

         5       my district or any other districts should

         6       receive less simply because the representative

         7       that they happen to elect comes from a

         8       particular party.  And in fact, we should have

         9       the same ability to communicate with our

        10       constituents, we should have the same ability

        11       to serve them and advocate on their behalf.

        12                  And we're asking in this particular

        13       proposal to make sure that that in fact

        14       happens in a way that allows us to be able to

        15       just do the work of government.  And certainly

        16       part of the work of government in a democracy

        17       is to be able to communicate effectively with

        18       your constituents.  And under the current

        19       rules, many members of this body are

        20       prohibited from doing that.

        21                  And so I ask my colleagues, and all

        22       those who think that democracy is important,

        23       to vote for this reform in our rules.

        24                  Thank you.

        25                  THE PRESIDENT:    The chair


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         1       recognizes Senator Valesky.

         2                  SENATOR VALESKY:    Thank you,

         3       Mr. President.

         4                  This resolution that is before us

         5       today, Senate Resolution 128, is, make no

         6       mistake about it, real reform -- real

         7       legislative reform that, if adopted, would

         8       move this Senate on the course to an open,

         9       accountable, responsible legislative body.

        10                  So this is an important debate that

        11       we have today.  Unfortunately, this will be a

        12       rare debate that we have today.  Because as a

        13       result of a rule that was adopted two years

        14       ago, any future proposed rules changes can

        15       only come through the Rules Committee and not

        16       to the floor of the Senate.  So my

        17       understanding is that this will be the only

        18       opportunity we have for this two-year session

        19       to discuss real legislative reform on the

        20       floor of the State Senate.

        21                  I want to share with you,

        22       Mr. President and all of my colleagues, a

        23       situation has occurred shortly after taking

        24       office two years ago when I, as many new

        25       members I'm sure do have orientation sessions


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         1       and learn about the practices of how the

         2       New York State Senate works.

         3                  We went through the various forms

         4       of debating a bill and how the committee

         5       process works and so on and so forth.  And

         6       then we talked about the issue of legislation

         7       that perhaps may be supported by an

         8       overwhelming number of Senators, Republicans

         9       and Democrats, that for whatever reason does

        10       not come out of committee.  And we talked

        11       about a process of moving a bill to the floor

        12       of the Senate and recording that vote.

        13                  And much to my surprise, it was

        14       explained to me that in 2001, in the adoption

        15       of rules in that session, that those votes

        16       were no longer recorded.  That, instead, a

        17       canvass of agreement was adopted whereby votes

        18       were not recorded on those bills.  In

        19       addition, the number of opportunities to

        20       motion to petition a bill out of committee was

        21       significantly reduced.

        22                  And so, Mr. President, our

        23       resolution today eliminates the canvass of

        24       agreement.  It eliminates the limits that we

        25       currently place on motions of petition.  And


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         1       it basically says that when there are

         2       legislative proposals that some member or

         3       members of this body feel ought to be

         4       addressed by the Senate, that we would have a

         5       procedure under this rule to allow that bill

         6       to come -- or allow that motion to come before

         7       the house for a vote.  And that the votes on

         8       that motion be recorded.

         9                  Because in the final analysis,

        10       Mr. President, don't the constituents that we

        11       represent deserve to know how we feel on a

        12       particular issue?  One of the most democratic

        13       of all things that we do here, having an

        14       ability to stand up for a particular issue and

        15       say whether we support that issue or oppose

        16       that issue or support maybe an alternative

        17       proposal.  Under our resolution, Senate

        18       Resolution 128, we would have that kind of a

        19       structure here in the Senate.

        20                  And I urge all my colleagues to

        21       support this resolution for the purpose of

        22       eliminating a canvass of agreement and opening

        23       this Senate, and for a number of other items

        24       that are contained in this as well, and move

        25       this Senate along the path toward real reform,


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         1       real openness, real accountability, real

         2       transparency and real responsiveness on our

         3       part on behalf of the citizens of the State of

         4       New York whom we are elected to represent.

         5                  Thank you, Mr. President.

         6                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

         7       Schneiderman.

         8                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

         9       Mr. President.

        10                  I rise to speak in support of this

        11       resolution and in particular to follow up on

        12       something Senator Valesky just noted about the

        13       power of the Rules Committee in this house.

        14                  And, ladies and gentlemen, I would

        15       urge you that this really shouldn't be a

        16       Democratic or a Republican issue.  This is

        17       certainly not an issue that relates to any

        18       particular leader of this house.

        19                  But this is a sham Legislature.

        20       This is a Legislature, until we reform the

        21       rules, in which no member of this house, no

        22       group of members, no matter how numerous, can

        23       get a bill to the floor for a vote.  It is

        24       controlled by the Majority Leader through the

        25       shadow committee, the Rules Committee.


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         1                  Here is the calendar of Senate

         2       committee meetings, so the public can know

         3       when we meet.  Every committee is on there

         4       except one, the Rules Committee.  Because it

         5       has no scheduled meetings, it has no identity

         6       other than to be the shadowy arm of

         7       authoritarianism by which the Majority Leader

         8       has absolute control over what comes to the

         9       floor for a vote.

        10                  Last year we attempted -- in the

        11       last few years, since the passage of this rule

        12       in 2005 that requires all proposed changes to

        13       the Senate rules to go through the Rules

        14       Committee -- my colleagues on this side of the

        15       aisle sent a series of 11 resolutions to the

        16       Rules Committee proposing changes in the

        17       rules.  Senator Krueger, Senator Oppenheimer,

        18       Senator Valesky, Senator Breslin, Senator

        19       Malcolm Smith, Senator Duane, Senator

        20       Hassell-Thompson, Senator Klein, Senator

        21       Sabini, Senator Stachowski and myself all

        22       authored resolutions.  Not one of us even

        23       received a response from the Rules Committee

        24       that supposedly is in charge of handling

        25       amendments to the Senate rules.


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         1                  Why is that?  It's because -- we

         2       all know this, everyone knows this.  Let's

         3       not, you know, play games with the public --

         4       the Rules Committee is a shadow government.

         5       It's not a real committee.  It's the arm of

         6       the Majority Leader to control what comes to

         7       the floor.

         8                  Ladies and gentlemen, let's get rid

         9       of -- I see at this point Senator Johnson is

        10       leaving our side of the aisle.

        11                  (Laughter.)

        12                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Come back

        13       and visit again.

        14                  Ladies and gentlemen, this is

        15       not -- you know, this is really not a joke.

        16       Our constituents know what's going on.  They

        17       know that this is the equivalent of the old

        18       legislatures in the Eastern Bloc, where you

        19       had a sham parliament that pretended to pass

        20       legislation while everyone knew that the

        21       Politburo was behind the scenes making

        22       decisions.

        23                  Let's get rid of the Rules

        24       Committee.  Let's restore the power of the

        25       substantive committees.  Let's provide for


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         1       ways for real, ordinary, rank-and-file

         2       Senators to get bills to the floor for a vote.

         3       And let's certainly dispense with this sham

         4       that rules reform will go on in the Rules

         5       Committee after the debate today.

         6                  So I urge everyone to support this

         7       effort to make the Senate more open and

         8       democratic and support Resolution 128.

         9                  THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

        10       Senator Schneiderman.

        11                  Senator Savino.

        12                  SENATOR SAVINO:    Thank you,

        13       Mr. President.

        14                  I stand in support of this

        15       resolution.  The people of this state want and

        16       deserve a government that is open, that is

        17       honest, that is responsive, that is

        18       accountable, that is equitable, and that is

        19       effective.

        20                  This resolution would alter the

        21       2005-2006 Senate rules by allowing ranking

        22       Minority members or any three committee

        23       members to place a bill on the committee

        24       agenda.  It would allow the ranking Minority

        25       member or any three committee members to hold


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         1       public hearings.  It would authorize any

         2       Senator to join on any bill as a cosponsor.

         3       It would require detailed committee reports on

         4       each bill reported to the floor.

         5                  It would require more information

         6       be made available to the public, through the

         7       Internet; the active list, including committee

         8       transcripts and votes, fiscal notes, and

         9       Senate expenditure reports.

        10                  Currently, right now, I serve as

        11       the ranking Minority member -- till today --

        12       of the Labor Committee.  I serve on six other

        13       committees.  And many times I have found

        14       myself as one of a few members who attend

        15       these committee meetings.

        16                  This is where we're supposed to

        17       discuss and debate legislation.  This is where

        18       we're supposed to seek the advice, the

        19       information, the expertise of our colleagues

        20       as to what the legislation and public policy

        21       we are putting forth is.

        22                  Our committees do not achieve that.

        23       Bills that move through the committee at the

        24       request of the chair are overseen by the

        25       Majority Leader's legal staff.  We have almost


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         1       no input -- in fact, none of us have almost

         2       any input on the bills that come through these

         3       committees.  We need to change that.  This

         4       resolution will allow us to change that and

         5       allow for more interaction among the

         6       membership, more input, and better legislation

         7       moving through these committees.

         8                  So I support this resolution.

         9                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        10                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

        11       Hassell-Thompson.

        12                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

        13       you, Mr. President.

        14                  I want to offer a proposed hold on

        15       the numbers of committees that meet off the

        16       floor.  The Senate currently holds an

        17       excessive number of meetings off the floor.

        18       Why is this problematic?  It's problematic

        19       because the people send us here to have open

        20       and honest discussions, and they need to be

        21       allowed to attend or send representatives to

        22       attend any of these meetings.

        23                  The other thing that it disallows

        24       is a time frame in which there could be

        25       meaningful discussion on any of the


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         1       solicitation that is being proposed.

         2       According to the law of physics, it's

         3       impossible for a Senator to be in two places

         4       at once.  When there is a committee meeting

         5       being held off the floor, the Senator who is a

         6       member of that committee must choose whether

         7       to miss floor votes, miss committee votes, or

         8       miss hopefully active debate or discussion

         9       that may be going on about the bill.

        10                  This rules change will permit

        11       committee meetings to be held off the floor

        12       under appropriate circumstances and is

        13       designed to ensure that the holding of

        14       committee meetings off the floor is the

        15       exception rather than the rule.

        16                  Finally, when it is necessary for

        17       the Senate to hold meetings off the Senate

        18       floor, this rule would provide that the Senate

        19       must stand at ease until the committee

        20       concludes its business.  This will permit all

        21       Senators to perform their duties both on the

        22       floor and in committee.

        23                  This would also give us

        24       accountability to the public and committees

        25       that are scheduled for meeting times which are


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         1       publicized.  And that's for a specific

         2       purpose.  We are defeating the purpose each

         3       time that we take the committee off the floor.

         4                  Lastly, reality.  While the reality

         5       is that sometimes these meetings off the floor

         6       become necessary, it should be done in

         7       consultation with the body in general.  These

         8       decisions should not be made in a vacuum but,

         9       rather, this proposal would require that

        10       two-thirds of all members of the committee be

        11       held accountable for calling such a committee

        12       meeting.

        13                  In conclusion, the State Senate

        14       supports this proposal that makes the Senate

        15       and the entire Legislature, again, more

        16       responsive, deliberate, accessible,

        17       accountable, and efficient.  This in fact is

        18       true reform.

        19                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

        20       Stewart-Cousins.

        21                  SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS:    Thank

        22       you, Mr. President.

        23                  I began earlier today talking about

        24       the auspiciousness of the day.  And I get to

        25       rise yet again to talk about something that


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         1       startlingly just happened a few moments ago.

         2                  I was to speak on member items and

         3       the need for transparency and the need for

         4       accountability, and I find that the Governor,

         5       along with the Majority and Minority Leaders,

         6       have decided that member items should indeed

         7       be transparent, that member items should

         8       indeed be part of the budget process.  That

         9       suddenly, the light is going to shine on what

        10       and who and how, and it will be decided on in

        11       a budget process.  I think we have gone a far

        12       way.

        13                  One last thing, however.  Part of

        14       my presentation was to deal with the fact

        15       that, once the member item has indeed seen the

        16       light of day and has become part of the budget

        17       process, that it actually be honored.

        18                  And I would want to thank my

        19       colleagues in advance for honoring the member

        20       items that are indeed in the budget.  That

        21       those that do appear should indeed be granted,

        22       and we can certainly move forward again in a

        23       way that I believe gives more accountability,

        24       transparency, and credibility to this

        25       Legislature.


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         1                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Krueger.

         2                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

         3       Mr. President.

         4                  I rise to speak about our next

         5       amendment on ethical standards for members of

         6       the Senate officers and staff.

         7                  I often talk about, at home, that

         8       because I've asked people to elect me to make

         9       their laws, I believe I should be held to

        10       higher standards than the rest of the public.

        11       It is a privilege we have to serve in the

        12       Senate to represent the 19 million people in

        13       our state.  But I believe that requires of us

        14       not just formal standards for our behavior but

        15       clear-cut rules for the Senate of what is

        16       acceptable and what is not.

        17                  And so this amendment would

        18       prohibit any member of the Senate, officer or

        19       employee of the Senate from accepting any gift

        20       with a fair market value of more than $25

        21       directly or indirectly from any person or

        22       organization who is doing business with the

        23       State of New York.

        24                  All state employees must act in a

        25       manner consistent with that public trust and


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         1       must not take any actions that either are

         2       intended or appear to be intended to achieve

         3       personal gain or benefit.  We have heard the

         4       voices loud and clear from all of our

         5       constituents.  They demand better of us.  They

         6       demand accountability.  We need to be able to

         7       hold our heads high, say we are senators of

         8       the great state of New York and that we are

         9       held to high ethical standards.

        10                  Governor Spitzer has called for

        11       ending a system of pay-to-play government in

        12       our state.  The Senate Democrats have been

        13       calling for that for many years.  And we

        14       support, as part of a broader package of

        15       legislative changes on campaign finance reform

        16       and rules about how you can spend your

        17       campaign money, a rule within the Senate rules

        18       specifically outlining a gift ban.

        19                  Senator Bruno has spoken of this in

        20       previous years as a voluntary agreement, but

        21       it is not enforceable unless it is in our

        22       rules.  It would give our Senate Ethics

        23       Committee something to do to ensure that we

        24       are following ethical standards within our

        25       rules.


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         1                  Again, we need to tie this with

         2       other changes that need to be done both in

         3       consultation with our other house, the

         4       Assembly, and, I would argue, through

         5       legislative change.  But today we can change

         6       our rules and we can establish that, as a

         7       Senate, we say we will have specific ethical

         8       standards for accepting gifts and we will not

         9       violate them.

        10                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        11                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Stavisky.

        12                  SENATOR STAVISKY:    Thank you,

        13       Mr. President.

        14                  I rise to discuss the issue of

        15       standing conference committees.  Our proposal

        16       would create a standing conference committee

        17       of five Senators to work with the members of

        18       the Assembly to resolve differences.

        19                  So often you hear people in the

        20       halls talk about one-house bills, this is only

        21       a one-house bill.  How often do we read about

        22       it in the newspapers?  If we had a standing

        23       conference committee in place in our rules,

        24       the term "one-house bill" I think would be

        25       used less and less.


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         1                  To have the legislation considered

         2       by this joint conference committee, the

         3       requests would be made by the Temporary

         4       President of the Senate -- the Majority

         5       Leader -- and the Speaker of the Assembly, or

         6       by the prime sponsors of the bill in both

         7       houses, or by the chairs of the substantive

         8       committee considering these measures.  The

         9       prime sponsors of the bill in each house would

        10       serve on the conference committee but act as

        11       nonvoting members.

        12                  In addition, the resolution of the

        13       dispute would be examined by a nonpartisan

        14       council appointed by the commissioners of the

        15       Legislative Bill Drafting Commission, and then

        16       they will determine if the bill or resolution

        17       should be sent to the standing conference

        18       committee.  They would have 10 days from the

        19       time of the referral to negotiate changes and

        20       then report the bill within 15 days of the

        21       referral.

        22                  What we're doing now I think is a

        23       disgrace.  In 45 of the 49 bicameral houses of

        24       the legislature -- obviously, Nebraska has

        25       only one house -- but in the 45 of the 49


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         1       legislatures, they have conference committees.

         2       They have them in Congress.  You read about it

         3       all the time in Congress.  It makes absolutely

         4       no sense to deal with it the way we've been

         5       doing it.

         6                  Lastly, I believe that our rules

         7       changes -- when we say rules reform, too often

         8       that's become an oxymoron.  I think it's time

         9       that we started to take reform of the

        10       Legislature, and the rules of the Legislature

        11       is where we've got to start this entire reform

        12       process.

        13                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        14                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Diaz.

        15                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Thank you,

        16       Mr. President.

        17                  I rise to talk on the so-called

        18       amendments and rules, especially the first one

        19       introduced by Senator Parker.  It reads:

        20       "Proposal that all Senators receive equal

        21       staff and resources and that committee

        22       members, staff and resources are allocated

        23       proportionally to the majority and minority

        24       representation."

        25                  I think that if we are all honest


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         1       in what we're doing and trying to do, I would

         2       say that I will congratulate my colleagues and

         3       Senator Parker for talking about these.

         4                  However, I have been here four

         5       years.  Four years I have been in this

         6       chamber.  I'm going to my fifth.  And we know

         7       that that side discriminates against us.  We

         8       all know that.

         9                  They got people there with --

        10       getting -- some members getting $3 million and

        11       $4 million, $5 million in member items.  I'm

        12       getting $200,000.  Some members there are

        13       getting -- some members there are getting -- I

        14       guess.  I don't know, I think I -- que?

        15                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    More

        16       than me.

        17                  SENATOR DIAZ:    So if I'm getting

        18       more than you, Senator Ruth Thompson, this is

        19       exactly what I want to say.

        20                  That some members have two and

        21       three district offices; I only have a

        22       rinky-dinky one.  We all represent -- supposed

        23       to represent 250,000 people plus.  The law

        24       says one vote, one person.  We all represent

        25       the same amount of people.  Most of us, like


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         1       me, represent the poorest of the poorest.  But

         2       we're getting nothing.  Nothing.  We're

         3       getting crumbs.

         4                  That's okay, that that side is in

         5       the majority, they control the money and they

         6       get the big chunk, and they send to us

         7       something.  But then when it comes to us,

         8       whatever we get, we don't do with it what we

         9       say we're going to do with it.  Because

        10       nobody's doing anything that can say let's do

        11       it right.

        12                  We don't get the same amount.  Now,

        13       Senator Thompson just said that I'm getting

        14       more than her, and I'm getting $200,000.  I

        15       suppose that she's getting what?

        16                  So if we want to talk about

        17       equality, resources, honesty, let's share

        18       equally.  I understand that when Senator

        19       Connor was the minority leader, he didn't do

        20       it.  When Senator Paterson was the minority

        21       leader, he didn't do it.  Now I don't know

        22       what the new minority leader is going to do.

        23                  So let's criticize that side.  Yes,

        24       you got the big bucks.  You all discriminate

        25       against us; you get more money.  But, ladies


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         1       and gentlemen, I have to present my side too.

         2       We're not getting it equally neither.  So if

         3       we are going to talking about transparency,

         4       equality, honesty, let's be real, ladies and

         5       gentlemen.

         6                  Thank you very much.

         7                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Sabini.

         8                  SENATOR SABINI:    Mr. President,

         9       on the proposal.

        10                  You know, I don't think it's

        11       revolutionary to say that we should as

        12       legislators, when people send us here to

        13       represent the people in our districts, the

        14       300,000 people we represent, that it should be

        15       so questionable that we have to record our

        16       votes.

        17                  And yet under the current rules and

        18       the proposed rules that I hear are coming

        19       down, we are not, on many issues.  When issues

        20       are brought to the floor for discharge, we're

        21       not required to record our votes.

        22                  I find it amazing that even once

        23       again we're in a position where all the rules

        24       are going to be dispatched through the Rules

        25       Committee, even though everyone knows the


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         1       Rules Committee won't deal with the rules.

         2       Even the attempt to discharge my bill last

         3       year to make the rules come before the floor

         4       of the body, that of course was knocked down

         5       by the other rule based on the canvass of

         6       agreement.

         7                  With regard to conference

         8       committees, it has become so ridiculous that

         9       we can't come to agreements on issues that

        10       even when we have good intentions and try to,

        11       we can't resolve them.  Let's take, for

        12       example, Timothy's Law.  Finally, after all

        13       these years, we passed it, the 11th hour,

        14       59th minute of the last day of session in

        15       June.  And of course that left a nonpassed

        16       version in the Assembly.

        17                  That shouldn't happen.  And if

        18       another tragedy occurred, based on the fact

        19       that someone couldn't get care because we did

        20       it the Albany way, we did it the way that

        21       makes sure nothing gets done -- if another

        22       tragedy occurred because even when we had good

        23       intentions we couldn't get the law into

        24       effect, that's shameful.  It's shameful.

        25                  Now, I read papers all over this


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         1       state.  With the advent of online newspapers,

         2       you can read just about everyone's news in

         3       everyone's district.  And across this state,

         4       in the Western Frontier, in the Southern Tier,

         5       in the Hudson Valley and the Capital District,

         6       New York City, Long Island, all I kept reading

         7       about everywhere, and everyone's raised it,

         8       was how every candidate was for cleaning up

         9       Albany, changing the system, making things

        10       better, more user-friendly for residents of

        11       the state of New York.  And most of the people

        12       in this room said that in their campaigns.

        13                  What is it about when we get here

        14       that that attitude changes?  Well, to

        15       paraphrase Dr. King, there was a promissory

        16       note issued here in November.  And that

        17       promissory note, I suspect, is going to come

        18       back marked "insufficient funds."  And that's

        19       not right.

        20                  We should be able to determine the

        21       role of this Legislature, the direction of

        22       this Legislature, and what bills come to the

        23       floor and what bills do not.  And if we don't

        24       like it, we shouldn't be afraid to be recorded

        25       on it.


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         1                  And so I support this package of

         2       reform that has come before us today and urge

         3       everyone in the room to seriously consider

         4       whether or not they can go back home and

         5       explain to people what it is we do in this

         6       room.  Because when I try to explain it to

         7       people, I couldn't defend it.  It's not my

         8       role to defend it.  But I don't think anyone

         9       else who votes for it can defend it either.

        10                  Thank you.

        11                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Connor.

        12                  SENATOR CONNOR:    Thank you,

        13       Mr. President.

        14                  Mr. President, I'm beginning my

        15       30th session here.  And after what I heard

        16       Senator Diaz say, I want to have a little chat

        17       with you, Mr. President, after session.

        18       Because my colleague should watch what he

        19       complains of.

        20                  (Laughter.)

        21                  SENATOR CONNOR:    In this

        22       beginning of my 30th session, I'm the senior

        23       member -- not the oldest, I always point out,

        24       but the senior member on this side of the

        25       aisle.  And I look across the aisle, and I


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         1       have at least a dozen colleagues over there,

         2       and friends, who have spent more years in this

         3       house than I have.

         4                  And I pose the question, and I have

         5       my answer:  Isn't it painful?  Doesn't it pain

         6       you?  In all the years I've been in the

         7       Senate, and I trust the years you have, have

         8       you ever seen or heard this Legislature, this

         9       Senate, be as much maligned and held in as

        10       much ill repute as one only needs have to look

        11       at the daily newspapers?

        12                  And I know over the years the

        13       newspapers have slammed us individually and

        14       collectively on various issues.  I am talking

        15       about the consistent drumbeat, the consistent

        16       criticism, the consistent reference to the

        17       Legislature -- not just as dysfunctional, but

        18       in worse terms -- that we've been hearing now

        19       for a year or two.

        20                  Is it all fair?  No, it's not all

        21       fair.  I've served with some of the finest

        22       public servants I think New York has ever had

        23       on both sides of the aisle in this house.  And

        24       yes, in nearly 30 years there have been a few

        25       scoundrels, and they got caught.  You'll find


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         1       them anywhere.  But they certainly never,

         2       never epitomized the New York State Senate.

         3                  This body, when I first came here,

         4       held itself forth as the greatest debating

         5       body, legislature, in the nation.  They had

         6       rules that afforded all of us, minority

         7       members as well as majority members, full

         8       debate, full record votes, participation in

         9       committees.  That's how it used to be.

        10                  I passed, as a minority member in

        11       my first year here, 21 bills.  And they

        12       weren't local bills.  Because the majority

        13       that led the house then -- and some of you

        14       were there.  Remember what the rule was?

        15       We'll do any bill in this house on the merits.

        16       And politics didn't count.  That's the way it

        17       was when Senator Anderson was the majority

        18       leader.  And I have closets full of pen

        19       certificates to prove it.  And I wasn't alone

        20       then, by any means.

        21                  Isn't it painful now, though?

        22       Isn't it painful when your neighbors look at

        23       you kind of funny?  And they don't say, "Wow,

        24       you're a Senator," they say, "How are things

        25       in Albany?  Going to clean that mess up


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         1       there?"  That's how you're greeted by

         2       neighbors now.  Isn't that painful?

         3                  You know, we don't serve here for

         4       treasure.  Lord knows, I know -- I see senior

         5       members there, and I know the pension laws,

         6       and you know it too.  There are a lot of you

         7       working for less than nothing.  Less than

         8       nothing.  And I said that to somebody once,

         9       and they said, "Oh, most of those members

        10       would pay for the honor of being in the State

        11       Senate."  And certainly that was true for

        12       decades.

        13                  I really wonder now, where's the

        14       honor?  We all have our personal honor.  But

        15       isn't it time that we reach out to reclaim the

        16       reputation of this institution that's the

        17       people's Senate?  I heard that phrase many

        18       times on this floor, We're the people's Senate

        19       in New York State.

        20                  That's what at stake here.  Not

        21       just our individual reputations, the

        22       reputation of this institution where so many

        23       of us have served so many years and exchanged

        24       ideas and debated.

        25                  My colleagues, listen to the


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         1       voters.  It's now resonating with the voters.

         2       It's not just a press problem, it's a problem

         3       with the voters.  When the voters lose

         4       confidence in their elected representatives

         5       and the elected representative institution in

         6       which we serve, we all have a problem.

         7       Democracy with a small "d" has a problem.

         8       New York State has a problem.  And it's a big

         9       problem.

        10                  These rules changes, what do they

        11       do?  Do they eliminate the majority's control

        12       over the house?  No.  That's not democracy.

        13       Nobody is proposing to do that.  They do

        14       change power relationships.  They do.  It

        15       certainly takes away some of the power of the

        16       majority leader.  I assure you, adopt these

        17       rules and the majority leader will still be

        18       one of the three most powerful people in

        19       New York State.  But he won't be quite so

        20       powerful.  He won't be quite so powerful when

        21       it comes to how we function as elected

        22       representatives.

        23                  How independent can you be when you

        24       are guaranteed nothing for staff, guaranteed

        25       nothing?  You can get anywhere from zero to


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         1       hundreds of thousands of dollars for staff.

         2       Do you want to represent the districts as

         3       large as ours with no staff or minimal staff?

         4       How can you be independent then, when every

         5       resource of this house depends on the will of

         6       the leaders?  And I speak -- the other house

         7       can speak for itself, but we know what it's

         8       there like there too.

         9                  If we're going to change this

        10       Legislature, we have to change it.  We can't

        11       just Band-Aid it a little bit here and there.

        12       What about these proposals to empower

        13       committees?  Well, that's how real

        14       legislatures work.  We are almost unique in

        15       being behind the curve on that.

        16                  Empower the committees, it empowers

        17       the chairs.  So far none of us are chairs.  It

        18       empowers you, my colleagues on the other side

        19       of the aisle.  You, to be independent, to hold

        20       your committee meetings when you deem fit and

        21       the members of your committees deem fit, to

        22       function as a real committee -- like 25 or 30

        23       years ago, when the TV cameras went to

        24       committee meetings.  And everybody interested

        25       in an area attended committee meetings.  And


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         1       everybody knew who the committee chairs were

         2       because they were really important.

         3                  How important are you when your

         4       meetings are being snuck off the floor in the

         5       middle of session, held in a lobby somewhere,

         6       no one knows they're happening?

         7                  That's what these rules do, they

         8       empower you.  As well as give a fair voice to

         9       the minority.

        10                  Gifts.  I have said this over and

        11       over again, I've never served with a person

        12       who I thought was unduly influenced by someone

        13       giving them a meal or a couple of meals over

        14       the course of a session.  That's not the

        15       problem.  The problem is perception.  The

        16       public thinks you are.  The public thinks the

        17       institution is.

        18                  And to his credit, Senator Bruno

        19       first proposed this total ban that's in these

        20       rules in the end of 1998, I believe it was.

        21       Maybe it was 1999.  It was a one-house bill.

        22       I first suggested, "Well, let's do a rule that

        23       will bind us."  We ended up with a voluntary

        24       ban that I've observed since then, and I

        25       suspect others have as well.  But it's


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         1       obviously not good enough.  It didn't solve

         2       the problem.  It didn't get us ahead of that

         3       curve.

         4                  My colleagues, the voters are

         5       asking for change.  Change can be difficult.

         6       Look, in my 30th year here there are some

         7       changes here, and I think, What did we have to

         8       do that for?  Nobody really is comfortable

         9       with change for the sake of change.  But you

        10       have to recognize when change is not just

        11       appropriate, it is necessary.

        12                  The voters have delivered a

        13       message.  My colleagues, my advice to you is:

        14       Embrace change.  Embrace change or pay the

        15       price.  You'll perish politically at the

        16       polling places if you don't.

        17                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Thompson.

        18                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Mr. President,

        19       I listened today very concerned as a new

        20       member of this very distinguished body.

        21                  I rise today, Mr. President,

        22       because I am very concerned, coming from the

        23       most western part of the state, where

        24       throughout the last couple of years our

        25       newspapers have consistently argued that


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         1       Albany is dysfunctional.

         2                  And I understand that we come from

         3       a great country where democracy is not

         4       perfect.  But I do also know that people want

         5       change in this democracy in the New York State

         6       Legislature.

         7                  Today we have an opportunity to

         8       push for change.  And unfortunately, in a very

         9       few minutes we may not give people the change

        10       that they so desperately want.

        11                  Legislative reform is something

        12       that in Western New York people have talked

        13       about each and every year for the last five to

        14       six years.  People have also talked about

        15       making sure that their members participate in

        16       conference committees and that those

        17       committees have meaning and that those

        18       committees have value.  Hopefully that will

        19       change by the time this session is over.

        20                  The other thing that's so important

        21       as well is that the road to change in New York

        22       State begins and starts in this chamber.  It

        23       starts right here.  And people want change and

        24       hopefully, ladies and gentlemen, that we will

        25       give people the change that they so


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         1       desperately want right here in Albany in this

         2       Senate chamber.

         3                  Thank you.

         4                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane, to

         5       close.

         6                  SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you,

         7       Mr. President.

         8                  You know, I've been listening to

         9       everything that my colleagues have said here.

        10       And there is nothing, nothing in any of the

        11       proposals put forward that would shock the

        12       conscience or seem in any way egregious.  It

        13       just seems to me like simple democracy, good

        14       government, period.

        15                  Senator Parker, equal resources, of

        16       course.

        17                  Senator Valesky, makes sense.

        18                  Senator Schneiderman, absolutely

        19       correct; oversight is good.

        20                  Senator Savino, committees can

        21       actually function with a little bit of

        22       independence.

        23                  Senator Hassell-Thompson, why do we

        24       hold meetings off the floor?  Right?  We've

        25       got lots of room and lots of time to have our


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         1       committee meetings.  What's the rush?  Why do

         2       you have to call it off the floor, right?

         3                  (To Senator Stewart-Cousins.)  Our

         4       new conscience.  Thank you very much, Senator.

         5       You convinced me one thousand percent.

         6                  And Senator Krueger, our rules

         7       maven, makes perfect sense.

         8                  And Senator Stavisky, who doesn't

         9       love a good conference committee; right?  Good

        10       government.

        11                  Senator Connor, with history on

        12       your side, you have proven that collegial and

        13       democratic makes good laws and makes a good

        14       legislative body.

        15                  This chamber was a real Senate.

        16       This chamber could be a real, democratic,

        17       open, honest, recorded chamber again.  We can

        18       do it.  We can reform ourselves, and the

        19       Senate could be a beacon of good government.

        20       There's nothing to stop us.

        21                  So let's not hold back, ladies and

        22       gentlemen.  Let's do it.  Let's make ourselves

        23       a real, democratic Senate.

        24                  Thank you.

        25                  THE PRESIDENT:    The question is


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         1       on the resolution.  All those in favor please

         2       indicate by saying aye.

         3                  (Response of "Aye.")

         4                  THE PRESIDENT:    Those opposed,

         5       nay.

         6                  (Response of "Nay.")

         7                  SENATOR CONNOR:    Mr. President, I

         8       request a slow roll call.

         9                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Connor,

        10       may I rule on the voice motion.

        11                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.

        12       President.

        13                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

        14       Marcellino.

        15                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    I don't

        16       believe a slow roll call is provided for under

        17       our current rules.

        18                  SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President.

        19                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

        20                  SENATOR DUANE:    I do believe that

        21       the voice vote was insufficient and we do need

        22       to get an accurate tally of the vote on this

        23       resolution.

        24                  THE PRESIDENT:    Is there anyone

        25       else who would like to speak on the point of


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         1       order?

         2                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.

         3       President.

         4                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

         5       Marcellino.

         6                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    It is my

         7       understanding that the current rules only

         8       provide for a slow roll call on bills and

         9       concurrent resolutions and nominations.  This

        10       not being one of those, the current rules do

        11       not provide for a slow roll call, and I

        12       suggest that the chair so rule.

        13                  SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President,

        14       point of order.

        15                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

        16                  SENATOR DUANE:    Actually, the

        17       rules are basically silent on this issue.  And

        18       I therefore respectfully continue to request

        19       that we see what the actual votes here are.

        20       Because I believe it would be incredibly

        21       difficult to be able to tell, we're so -- we

        22       seem so closely matched in what it was.

        23                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

        24                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

        25       if it was the intention of this body to have


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         1       provided for slow roll calls other than the

         2       three instances that are provided in the

         3       rules, it would be listed.  There is no

         4       provision for slow roll calls on a resolution.

         5                  So therefore, I would say that the

         6       resolution is defeated.

         7                  SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President,

         8       may we have a ruling, please.

         9                  THE PRESIDENT:    The ruling on the

        10       point of order set forth by Senator Connor is

        11       defeated.

        12                  SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President.

        13                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

        14                  SENATOR DUANE:    I respectfully

        15       call for an appeal of the ruling of the chair.

        16                  SENATOR CONNOR:    Mr. President, I

        17       call for a slow roll call on that appeal.

        18                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

        19                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

        20       if I could just mention, they're appealing the

        21       ruling of the chair.  There's no slow roll

        22       call on that.  And if they want to -- if the

        23       Minority can get 32 individuals to overrule

        24       the appealing of the chair, then it would be

        25       overruled.


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         1                  SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President.

         2                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

         3                  SENATOR DUANE:    I respectfully

         4       disagree with that.  Actually, the rules are

         5       quite open to having a slow roll call vote on

         6       an appeal of the ruling of the chair.  In

         7       fact, there's precedent for that.

         8                  SENATOR ONORATO:    Mr. President.

         9                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Onorato.

        10                  SENATOR ONORATO:    Well, it's

        11       okay.

        12                  THE PRESIDENT:    With regard to

        13       the ruling, is there any other member that

        14       would like to speak?

        15                  Senator Connor.

        16                  SENATOR CONNOR:    Yes,

        17       Mr. President.  Procedurally, I've seen many,

        18       many times when an appeal of the chair has

        19       been subjected to a slow roll call.

        20                  Certainly it's subjected to a roll

        21       call.  I don't think Senator Skelos is

        22       suggesting that there's not a fast roll call

        23       on it.  It's not a motion to discharge or an

        24       amendment, so it's not subject to that

        25       nonsensical canvass of agreement that was


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         1       adopted in 2001.

         2                  But as to the main issue, as to the

         3       main issue, let me pose the following.  Yes,

         4       resolutions are done by voice vote, except a

         5       resolution adopting rules.  Because that's

         6       what we're doing.  If we don't adopt rules

         7       today, Senator Bruno loses most of his power

         8       tomorrow, because there will be no rules.

         9       There will be no rules tomorrow.

        10                  So it's an organizational meeting

        11       of the Senate.  And when you have an

        12       organizational meeting, there are no rules.

        13                  Does anyone doubt for a minute, but

        14       for our comity in this house, that on opening

        15       day of a new Legislature, a new Legislature,

        16       when we elect a Temporary President by

        17       resolution -- oh, yes, we put a substitute

        18       resolution in that loses on a voice vote for

        19       the Minority Leader.  Do you doubt if we came

        20       back here at 31-31 after an election you

        21       couldn't have a roll call on who the Temporary

        22       President would be because it's a resolution?

        23       Of course you'd want a roll call.

        24                  You can have a roll call, clearly,

        25       at the organizational meeting of the Senate,


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         1       on the election of a temporary chair, a

         2       Secretary, Stenographer, Sergeant-at-Arms and

         3       adoption of the rules.  Why not?  Is anyone

         4       willing to stand up here and say, Oh, if we

         5       came back here and it was a tie vote, we

         6       wouldn't want a roll call?

         7                  The fact that ordinarily we just do

         8       it on a voice vote is because we recognize the

         9       Majority has more seats.

        10                  And if you go back to the history

        11       books, go to the State Library, in the year

        12       1965 when it took this Senate three months to

        13       organize, it operated without rules for three

        14       months, because the Constitution mandates the

        15       first order of business is electing a

        16       Temporary President.  And it was unable to

        17       elect a Temporary President for three months,

        18       so there were no rules.  And they had slow

        19       roll call after slow roll call on the election

        20       of a temporary chair.  I'm not making that up.

        21       It's in the books, if anyone cares to look.

        22                  So that the my point,

        23       Mr. President.  The adoption of the rules is

        24       an organizational matter of the Senate.  And

        25       of course it's subject to a proper division of


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         1       the house by a roll call vote.  How else could

         2       you do it?

         3                  SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President.

         4                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

         5                  SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President, I

         6       just want to focus on the question before us,

         7       which is whether, on the appeal of the ruling

         8       of the president, we are entitled to a slow

         9       roll call vote.  I believe the answer is yes.

        10       I'm arguing that my motion is superseding the

        11       Senate rules because it's an appeal of the

        12       chair.

        13                  And so, Mr. President, I would very

        14       much like to hear your ruling on my appeal and

        15       our ability to have a slow roll call on that

        16       appeal.

        17                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        18                  THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

        19       Senator Duane.  We will have that ruling.

        20                  I would just like all the members,

        21       in the spirit of openness, to be allowed to

        22       express themselves.  And we now recognize

        23       Senator Maltese.

        24                  SENATOR MALTESE:    I yield to

        25       Senator Saland.


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         1                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Saland.

         2                  SENATOR SALAND:    Mr. President,

         3       as best as I can follow this debate, what I

         4       seem to have gleaned procedurally is that,

         5       unlike the situations described by

         6       Senator Connor, we are operating under rules.

         7       The rules are the preexisting rules, and those

         8       rules have specific provisions as to what

         9       particular types of matters a slow roll call

        10       can be had -- for which a slow roll call can

        11       be had.

        12                  I think by inclusion -- and I'll

        13       defer to Senator Maltese as to what the Latin

        14       term is; he's far more adept at that than I

        15       am -- but by inclusion of those three specific

        16       items, we exclude all other items that might

        17       be coming before this house for consideration

        18       by this body.

        19                  And I would ask for the wisdom of

        20       the Latin expert to tell me what the phrase

        21       might be.

        22                  SENATOR MALTESE:    Mr. President.

        23                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Maltese.

        24                  SENATOR MALTESE:    I really miss

        25       Senator Marchi right now.  But I believe the


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         1       phrase is expressio unius est exclusio 

         2       alterius, which is "The expression of one is

         3       the exclusion of all others."

         4                  And since you have specific

         5       enumeration of those instances where the slow

         6       roll call is permitted, therefore it would

         7       exclude this circumstance, which is not

         8       specifically enumerated.

         9                  THE PRESIDENT:    Is there any

        10       other member that would like to speak on the

        11       motion?

        12                  Hearing none, I had a feeling this

        13       might come up.  Looking back at the actions of

        14       the Senate back to 1993, which was as far back

        15       as I was able to peruse, there have been

        16       rulings of the chair that were appealed and

        17       resolved by a slow roll call.

        18                  In 2001, there was a rules change

        19       to the Senate, including Rule 8(B), which is

        20       the one which is under debate right now.

        21       There was one appeal of the ruling of the

        22       chair during that time.  At that time the

        23       chair did not make a ruling on that motion.

        24                  So there's no precedent in this

        25       chamber for an appeal of the ruling of the


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         1       chair not being allowed to have a slow roll

         2       call.

         3                  Now, the question of the exclusion

         4       of a procedure then therefore meaning that

         5       there is an automatic bar to that procedure is

         6       not true, because this chamber has done it

         7       several times.  And in 1993, the members spoke

         8       Latin as well as they do today.

         9                  Therefore, the chair rules on the

        10       appeal of the chair by Senator Duane that,

        11       upon further information and belief, that the

        12       previous ruling of the chair is overturned.

        13                  There will be a slow roll call.

        14       The Secretary will ring the bell.

        15                  SENATOR WINNER:    Mr. President, I

        16       appeal the ruling of the chair.

        17                  SENATOR CONNOR:    Slow roll call,

        18       Mr. President.

        19                  SENATOR WINNER:    Mr. President, I

        20       have the floor.

        21                  Point of order, Mr. Chair.

        22                  THE PRESIDENT:    Point of order.

        23                  Senator Winner.

        24                  SENATOR WINNER:    Thank you,

        25       Mr. President.


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         1                  You have made a ruling for which

         2       the Majority appeals the ruling of the chair.

         3       And the determination by the chair under these

         4       circumstances can only be done with respect to

         5       whether or not a slow roll call can be had on

         6       an appeal of the ruling of the chair.  And

         7       this appeal would be final.

         8                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, I've

         9       already ruled on that.  The appeal is denied.

        10                  SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President.

        11                  SENATOR WINNER:    Mr. President.

        12                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

        13                  SENATOR WINNER:    Mr. President.

        14                  SENATOR DUANE:    It occurs to me

        15       that really the chair had two choices now, to

        16       allow the slow roll call to move forward --

        17       which frankly I don't know why it's such a big

        18       deal -- or the motion could be withdrawn.  We

        19       don't have to do the rules today,

        20       Mr. President.

        21                  But those seem to be our only two

        22       options.

        23                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Winner.

        24                  SENATOR WINNER:    Mr. President,

        25       my point of order and my request for an appeal


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         1       of your ruling is an appeal specifically

         2       relative to your determination that a slow

         3       roll call is in order with regard to the

         4       appeal of a ruling of the chair.

         5                  In this circumstance, we believe

         6       that on this side of the aisle we're entitled

         7       to a ruling that specifically relates to the

         8       issue as to whether or not a slow roll call is

         9       appropriate under these circumstances.

        10                  THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

        11       Senator Winner.

        12                  SENATOR DUANE:    Point of order.

        13                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

        14                  SENATOR DUANE:    Regardless of

        15       how --

        16                  SENATOR WINNER:    I have the

        17       floor.

        18                  SENATOR DUANE:    Regardless of how

        19       you rule on that motion, I believe strongly

        20       that the right order would be to have the slow

        21       roll call on the original appeal of the

        22       chair's decision.

        23                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane,

        24       the point of order is before us right now.

        25       The point of order procedurally would come


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         1       before any other action the Senate will take.

         2                  On the point of order, as I ruled

         3       previously, Senator Winner, there have been --

         4       there is much precedent in this chamber for

         5       slow roll calls as a result of the appeal of

         6       the chair's ruling.  There have been no

         7       denials of those slow roll calls, as far as I

         8       could find, between 1993 and 2000.  There was

         9       one appeal that was not ruled upon in 2001

        10       after the passage of new rules, but at that

        11       time the chair did not ever rule on that

        12       motion -- on that appeal.

        13                  Therefore, I don't see any

        14       precedent for not allowing Senator Duane's

        15       motion to have a slow roll call on the appeal

        16       of the chair.  The appeal is therefore denied.

        17                  SENATOR WINNER:    Mr. President,

        18       I'm not asking you for a ruling with regard to

        19       precedent.  I'm asking you for a ruling with

        20       regard to your ruling.

        21                  Your ruling is that there can be a

        22       slow roll call allowed on an appeal of the

        23       ruling of the chair.  I am respectfully

        24       appealing your ruling that states that that is

        25       possibility.  There can be no appeal of the


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         1       ruling of the chair by a slow roll call under

         2       the rules of this house.

         3                  Therefore, your ruling that it can

         4       be appealed by a slow roll -- a slow roll call

         5       can occur is therefore the subject of my

         6       appeal, and I would ask that there be a vote

         7       cast on that question.

         8                  And I would respectfully suggest

         9       that the vote in favor of overturning the

        10       ruling of the chair would be a vote suggesting

        11       that there be no slow roll call permitted on a

        12       motion --

        13                  THE PRESIDENT:    Let me restate

        14       the ruling --

        15                  SENATOR CONNOR:    Point of order,

        16       Mr. President.

        17                  THE PRESIDENT:    -- of the chair

        18       for Senator Winner.

        19                  We did not rule on precedent.  We

        20       ruled on your motion, a motion that in your

        21       subsequent argument you have just requested a

        22       vote.  Ironically, which is what the ruling

        23       was about originally.

        24                  The ruling is that the slow roll

        25       call at this point is in order.


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         1                  SENATOR CONNOR:    Mr. President --

         2                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President.

         3                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

         4                  SENATOR CONNOR:    -- addressed to

         5       Senator Winner's motion.  Fundamental

         6       parliamentary procedure --

         7                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Connor --

         8                  SENATOR CONNOR:    Point of order,

         9       I'm sorry.

        10                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Connor.

        11                  Senator Skelos.

        12                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

        13       we can go on all evening with this.  And there

        14       can be as many appeals as the Minority wishes,

        15       but at some point there's going to be a motion

        16       to overrule the chair which will prevail.

        17                  So we can make 30 motions if we

        18       want, we can appeal 30 times if we want, but

        19       the bottom line is in the end there will be 32

        20       votes that say no slow roll call.

        21                  SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President, I

        22       just -- Mr. President --

        23                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

        24                  SENATOR DUANE:    I just want to go

        25       back to my point of order, that I believe I'm


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         1       agreeing with you, Mr. President.  We have two

         2       options:  To go ahead with the slow roll call

         3       on the appeal, as you've ruled is in order, or

         4       those that want can just withdraw their rules

         5       and we'll talk about them another day.

         6                  Thank you, Mr. President.

         7                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Connor.

         8                  SENATOR CONNOR:    Mr. President,

         9       just addressing Senator Winner's last

        10       motion --

        11                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

        12       can we have a voice vote at this time on

        13       Senator Winner's motion to overrule the ruling

        14       of the chair.

        15                  SENATOR CONNOR:    Mr. President, I

        16       have a point of order on that.

        17                  SENATOR WINNER:    -- resolution is

        18       on the floor.

        19                  SENATOR CONNOR:    A point of order

        20       upon a point of order is not appealable.

        21       That's what Senator Winner is doing.

        22                  THE PRESIDENT:    We're not on a

        23       point of order right now, Senator Connor.

        24                  SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President, I

        25       know I'm sounding like a broken record,


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         1       appropriately on my -- but really there's only

         2       one of two options.  Either we proceed with

         3       the slow roll on the appeal, or we'll hear a

         4       withdrawal of the resolution and what happens

         5       after that is -- who cares.

         6                  But frankly, again, I don't think

         7       it's a big deal to have the roll call.  So

         8       let's just do it, Mr. President.  Thank you.

         9                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

        10       is -- Senator Duane, do you wish to withdraw

        11       the resolution?

        12                  SENATOR DUANE:    No.

        13                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Well, you just

        14       indicated you wanted to withdraw the

        15       resolution.

        16                  SENATOR DUANE:    No, I don't.  I

        17       don't, actually.

        18                  Mr. President, just to clarify, so

        19       those are the two choices and --

        20                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

        21                  SENATOR DUANE:    -- no one has

        22       withdrawn the resolution.

        23                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

        24                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

        25       if I could just restate Senator Winner's


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         1       motion, I believe he wanted to overrule the

         2       ruling of the chair which stated that there

         3       would be a slow roll call.

         4                  So that motion is before us now,

         5       and I would ask that we vote on that motion.

         6                  SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President.

         7                  THE PRESIDENT:    All those in

         8       favor of the motion please indicate by saying

         9       aye.

        10                  (Response of "Aye.")

        11                  SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President,

        12       point of order.

        13                  THE PRESIDENT:    All those

        14       opposed, indicate --

        15                  SENATOR DUANE:    Point of order.

        16       Point of order, Mr. President.

        17       Mr. President --

        18                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane,

        19       we're on a vote.

        20                  SENATOR DUANE:    -- my motion

        21       supersedes everything.

        22                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, we're on

        23       a vote now.  There was a motion after your

        24       motion.

        25                  SENATOR DUANE:    Slow roll,


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         1       Mr. President.  Slow roll.

         2                  SENATOR WINNER:    We're on a vote.

         3                  SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President,

         4       just to be clear, we're asking for a slow roll

         5       on Senator Winner's motion.  We're appealing

         6       your -- we're asking for a slow roll on

         7       Senator Winner's appeal.

         8                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

         9                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

        10       perhaps you can announce the results.  If

        11       Senator Connor wishes to then ask for a slow

        12       roll call, we can bring that up at that time.

        13                  SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President,

        14       point of order.

        15                  THE PRESIDENT:    Just a moment --

        16                  SENATOR DUANE:    We're asking for

        17       a slow roll on Senator Winner's appeal of the

        18       chair's ruling.  And we had five people

        19       standing up.  In fact, we had many more.  If

        20       you'd like to see, we'll show you again,

        21       Mr. President.

        22                  THE PRESIDENT:    My understanding

        23       of this procedure is as follows.  There was a

        24       ruling on a slow roll call, that it was in

        25       order.  There's now an appeal of that ruling


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         1       by Senator Winner.  On the appeal, Senator

         2       Skelos has asked for a vote.

         3                  And what would have to be explained

         4       at this point for the vote to continue is why

         5       those Senators calling for a slow roll call

         6       would be denied to do so, since the last

         7       ruling of the chair was in favor of a slow

         8       roll call.  They got up in an appropriate time

         9       in the middle of a vote, as has always been

        10       the case when there's a slow roll call in this

        11       chamber.

        12                  Senator Skelos.

        13                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Again, we're

        14       going to start going in circles.  It is not

        15       provided for in the rules.  And we are

        16       overriding the ruling of the chair, and then

        17       we can backtrack to the resolution as to

        18       whether there is a slow roll call on that or

        19       not.  Of which you have ruled that there would

        20       be no slow roll call.

        21                  SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President,

        22       point of order.

        23                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

        24                  SENATOR DUANE:    Although I don't

        25       understand, again, what the big deal is about


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         1       having the slow roll call vote.  It's

         2       certainly not a big deal on this side of the

         3       aisle.

         4                  But the rules actually do not

         5       address this issue.  Therefore, Mr. Chair,

         6       your discussion of the precedent or lack

         7       thereof on this is absolutely on point.  And

         8       therefore, we deserve and are entitled to,

         9       since we're falling back onto rules that exist

        10       everywhere in the universe -- and even here,

        11       since the rules are silent on this issue -- to

        12       have a slow roll vote count.

        13                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        14                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

        15       DeFrancisco.

        16                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Mr.

        17       President, it should be obvious by now that

        18       every time there is going to be a motion for a

        19       slow roll call, you apparently are going to

        20       rule in the favor of the slow roll call.

        21                  And every time you rule in favor,

        22       the Majority always has the opportunity under

        23       the rules to appeal your rulings.  And they

        24       will call for a vote, like just what happened,

        25       and then the other side is going to call for a


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         1       slow roll call.

         2                  So unless we're going to go on

         3       ad infinitum with this process, it makes sense

         4       to have a vote on this, because ultimately the

         5       rules do provide that a majority can always

         6       appeal your ruling.  And apparently the

         7       Majority is going to continue to appeal your

         8       ruling.

         9                  And to have some end to this

        10       process, unless we're going to go on all

        11       night, I would strongly suggest that we have a

        12       voice vote and get on with it.

        13                  SENATOR ONORATO:    Mr. President.

        14                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Onorato.

        15                  SENATOR ONORATO:    A point of

        16       order.

        17                  I'd like to call a quorum.  I don't

        18       know if they've got 32 votes present to make

        19       that voice vote valid.

        20                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Onorato,

        21       the rules of the Senate call for a quorum to

        22       ascertain whether there is a majority of

        23       Senators present, not a majority or a

        24       plurality of one conference.  So therefore,

        25       the point is not in order.


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         1                  On the point that Senator

         2       DeFrancisco is raising, Senator DeFrancisco

         3       and all members present, it is the

         4       determination of the chair that a voice vote

         5       was not sufficient to pass this or defeat this

         6       resolution pertaining to the rules.

         7                  It was my determination that if one

         8       of the sides of the aisle, regardless as to

         9       who it is, wanted to have a slow roll call,

        10       that there is precedent in this chamber, there

        11       is also precedent in Robert's Rules of Order,

        12       in Mason's Rules of Legislative Procedure,

        13       where the rules of construction state that

        14       leaving out a procedure from a process does

        15       not ban it from being used.

        16                  And so I have stated not only that

        17       it has been practice in this chamber before, I

        18       have stated not only that the rules of

        19       procedure that we are using as the basis for

        20       the Senate rules provide for it, but I have

        21       further maintained that there has never been

        22       one time that anyone can cite in this chamber

        23       when the call for a slow roll call appealing

        24       the ruling of the chair has been denied.

        25                  So the precedent would be set today


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         1       if I allow it.  And with the weight of the

         2       evidence on that side, I have ruled that a

         3       slow roll call is in order.

         4                  Now, I would certainly honor the

         5       Majority, if you would like to continue to

         6       discuss it, I'm open to that, or if you would

         7       like to appeal the rule of the chair again.

         8       But that is the decision of the chair, and I

         9       think that it is rooted in law, it is rooted

        10       in procedure and precedent where this body is

        11       concerned.

        12                  Senator DeFrancisco.

        13                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    If the

        14       chair recognizes that the Majority always has

        15       the right to overrule the ruling of the chair

        16       no matter how many subsequent questions are

        17       raised, then ultimately, when everyone gets

        18       exhausted here going through this process,

        19       we're going to get to that rule which is in

        20       the rules that are presently guiding this

        21       chamber.

        22                  So again, it's certainly up to the

        23       chair; we can continue to go through this.

        24       But ultimately the Majority, according to the

        25       existing rules, would prevent a slow roll call


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         1       no matter what the precedent is, because the

         2       rules are in existence as of the beginning of

         3       this session, because we carried over last

         4       year's rules.

         5                  And one other thing.  It's kind of

         6       ironic that there's a motion to change the

         7       rules in such dramatic ways when there does

         8       not appear to be the willingness to follow the

         9       existing rule.  The final one is the Majority

        10       always has the opportunity and the right to

        11       overrule you.

        12                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

        13       DeFrancisco, I think your point is well-taken.

        14       The Majority --

        15                  SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President.

        16                  THE PRESIDENT:    The Majority

        17       certainly has the option and certainly should,

        18       if the Majority feels that that is right,

        19       appeal the ruling of the chair.

        20                  However, any rules that this body

        21       has conducted itself for the first four days

        22       of the session have been indicated by consent.

        23       The rules of this body have not been adopted

        24       for this year.  Even by following the previous

        25       rules, even if we were following the rules


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         1       right now, I made a determination on an appeal

         2       of the chair, based on the rules as I

         3       understand it, that this chamber has conducted

         4       itself.

         5                  If the Majority would like to

         6       overrule me, there are two other ways other

         7       than a voice vote that the Majority can do so.

         8       But it's my determination that a voice vote is

         9       not in order.

        10                  And I would like to point out that

        11       the other time that this came up was on

        12       January 9, 2001, in a rules change where we

        13       debated Rules 8(A)(B), and at that time the

        14       chair didn't rule at all.

        15                  And so what I'm saying is, I would

        16       not like to be the first chair to make a

        17       ruling that is anathema to everything else

        18       that I've seen in this process, not only as

        19       chair but as a member of this body for the

        20       last 21 years.

        21                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Point of

        22       order.

        23                  What is on the floor at the moment?

        24                  SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President, if

        25       I may --


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         1                  THE PRESIDENT:    The point of

         2       order is, I believe, Senator DeFrancisco, a

         3       second appeal of the chair by the Majority on

         4       the issue of the allowance of a slow roll

         5       call.

         6                  SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President.

         7                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

         8                  SENATOR DUANE:    I just would like

         9       a point of personal privilege.

        10                  And as the members gather in the

        11       chamber, I want to remind the members that

        12       what we are voting on is whether or not to

        13       uphold your decision on Senator Winner's

        14       appeal -- not my appeal, but Senator Winner's

        15       appeal.

        16                  And I believe that your decision

        17       was most wise, and I'm hoping that every

        18       member of the body will agree that you are

        19       very wise in your decision.  And voting yes on

        20       the slow roll will indicate agreement with

        21       that.

        22                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        23                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Mr. President.

        24                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Padavan.

        25                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    I think it


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         1       would be instructive if you clarified the

         2       significance of a yes or no vote as it relates

         3       to this latest challenge to your ruling.

         4                  THE PRESIDENT:    I'd be happy to

         5       do that, Senator.

         6                  Would you restate that?  I didn't

         7       hear everything you said.

         8                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    I'm asking you

         9       to clarify it, Mr. President.  "Yes" means

        10       what and "no" means what in regard to Senator

        11       Winner's motion on your prior ruling?

        12                  THE PRESIDENT:    "Aye" would be in

        13       favor of the motion that would defeat the

        14       ruling of the chair that a slow roll is order.

        15                  "Nay" would mean that it would

        16       support the previous ruling of the chair and

        17       that the slow roll would proceed.

        18                  SENATOR WINNER:    Mr. President.

        19                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Winner.

        20                  SENATOR WINNER:    Mr. President, I

        21       would respectfully request that you continue

        22       the voice vote on my motion to overturn the

        23       ruling of the chair.

        24                  We've already voted overwhelmingly

        25       on this side "yes" to overturn your ruling.


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         1       We didn't conclude the voice vote, however,

         2       for those that were in favor of sustaining the

         3       ruling of the chair.

         4                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator, we did

         5       not complete the vote because, as the vote was

         6       commencing, Senator Connor asked for a slow

         7       roll call.  And a slow roll call is within the

         8       ambit of possibility based on the previous

         9       ruling.  So I don't know how I can eliminate a

        10       slow roll call if I had previously ruled for

        11       it.

        12                  Senator Skelos.

        13                  SENATOR SKELOS:    If I could just

        14       suggest that we all take a deep breath --

        15       inhale, exhale.  And if we could just wait a

        16       moment, I think everything will be resolved in

        17       a happy fashion.

        18                  THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

        19       Senator Skelos.  I'm waiting to exhale.

        20                  (Laughter.)

        21                  (Lengthy pause.)

        22                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President.

        23                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Skelos.

        24                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

        25       I'm hopeful that the deep breath helped.


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         1                  Senator Winner.

         2                  SENATOR WINNER:    Thank you.

         3                  Mr. President, I withdraw my appeal

         4       of the ruling of the chair.

         5                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Thank you,

         6       Senator Winner.

         7                  Senator Duane.

         8                  SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you,

         9       Mr. President.  I'd like to withdraw my appeal

        10       of the chair.

        11                  THE PRESIDENT:    So recorded,

        12       Senator Duane.

        13                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

        14       if we could now vote on the resolution.

        15                  THE PRESIDENT:    On the resolution

        16       proposed by Senator Smith, all those in favor

        17       please indicate by saying aye.

        18                  (Response of "Aye.")

        19                  THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

        20                  (Response of "Nay.")

        21                  THE PRESIDENT:    The chair cannot

        22       make --

        23                  SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President.  I

        24       just wanted to remind you, Mr. President, that

        25       on this vote we are actually raising our


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         1       hands.

         2                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Duane.

         3                  SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you,

         4       Mr. President.  Can we do it over?

         5                  (Laughter.)

         6                  THE PRESIDENT:    All those in

         7       favor of the motion presented by Senator

         8       Smith, please indicate by saying aye.

         9                  (Response of "Aye.")

        10                  THE PRESIDENT:    All those

        11       opposed, please indicate with a nay.

        12                  (Response of "Nay.")

        13                  THE PRESIDENT:    The chair cannot

        14       determine where there are more votes.  Perhaps

        15       a showing of hands would better indicate the

        16       result.  Ayes, please raise their hands.

        17                  The Secretary will announce the

        18       results.

        19                  Twenty-three recorded in the

        20       affirmative.  The motion is defeated.

        21                  Senator Skelos.

        22                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President, I

        23       believe there's a resolution at the desk by

        24       Senator Bruno.  Could we have the title read

        25       and move for its immediate adoption.


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         1                  THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

         2       will read.

         3                  THE PRESIDENT:    By Senator Bruno,

         4       Senate Resolution Number 139, to adopt the

         5       rules of the Senate for the years 2007-2008.

         6                  THE PRESIDENT:    All in favor of

         7       the motion please indicate by saying aye.

         8                  (Response of "Aye.")

         9                  THE PRESIDENT:    Opposed, nay.

        10                  (Response of "Nay.")

        11                  THE PRESIDENT:    The ayes have it.

        12                  Senator Skelos.

        13                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

        14       would you please recognize Senator Volker.

        15                  THE PRESIDENT:    The resolution

        16       being adopted, we recognize Senator Volker.

        17                  SENATOR VOLKER:    Mr. President, I

        18       just want to announce that it was suggested to

        19       me that I have a Codes Committee meeting off

        20       the floor today, but I thought it was kind of

        21       inappropriate to do that.

        22                  So we're going to have the meeting

        23       tomorrow at 10 o'clock in Room 433.  Okay?

        24                  THE PRESIDENT:    Thank you,

        25       Senator Volker.


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         1                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President,

         2       is there any further business to come before

         3       the Senate?

         4                  THE PRESIDENT:    No, there is not,

         5       Senator.

         6                  SENATOR SKELOS:    There being

         7       none, I move we stand adjourned until

         8       Wednesday, January 17th, at 11:00 a.m.

         9                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senate is

        10       adjourned until Wednesday, January 17th, at

        11       11:00 a.m.

        12                  (Whereupon, at 7:01 p.m., the

        13       Senate adjourned.)

        14

        15

        16

        17

        18

        19

        20

        21

        22

        23

        24

        25


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