Regular Session - May 16, 2007
2935
1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
2
3
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
5
6
7
8
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 May 16, 2007
11 11:04 a.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
15
16
17
18 LT. GOVERNOR DAVID A. PATERSON, President
19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
3 Senate will come to order.
4 Please join me in reciting the
5 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
6 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited
7 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: In the
9 absence of clergy, I would ask that you join
10 me for a moment of silent prayer.
11 (Whereupon, the assemblage
12 respected a moment of silence.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: We will
14 now have the reading of the Journal.
15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
16 Tuesday, May 15, the Senate met pursuant to
17 adjournment. The Journal of Monday, May 14,
18 was read and approved. On motion, Senate
19 adjourned.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Without
21 objection, the Journal stands approved as
22 read.
23 Presentation of petitions.
24 Messages from the Assembly.
25 Messages from the Governor.
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1 Reports of standing committees.
2 Reports of select committees.
3 Communications and reports from
4 state officers.
5 Motions and resolutions.
6 Senator Farley.
7 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you,
8 Mr. President.
9 On behalf of Senator Fuschillo, I
10 wish to call up his bill, Print Number 5050,
11 which was recalled from the Assembly and it's
12 now at the desk.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
14 Secretary will read.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 755, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 5050,
17 an act to amend the General Business Law.
18 SENATOR FARLEY: I now move to
19 reconsider the vote by which this bill was
20 passed.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
22 the roll on reconsideration.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 41.
25 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, I
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1 now move to recommit the bill to the Committee
2 on Consumer Protection.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: So
4 ordered.
5 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President,
6 on behalf of Senator Golden, on page 63 I
7 offer the following amendments to Calendar
8 Number 930, Senate Print 3333, and I ask that
9 this bill retain its place on the Third
10 Reading Calendar.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
12 amendments are received and adopted, and the
13 bill will retain its place on the Third
14 Reading Calendar.
15 Senator Savino.
16 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you,
17 Mr. President.
18 I move that the following bills be
19 discharged from their respective committees
20 and be recommitted with instructions to strike
21 the enacting clause: Senate Print 4197.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: So
23 ordered.
24 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
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1 Skelos.
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
3 if we could make the substitution that's at
4 the desk at this time.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
6 Secretary will read.
7 THE SECRETARY: On page 63,
8 Senator Bruno moves to discharge, from the
9 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8017
10 and substitute it for the identical Senate
11 Bill Number 5490A, Third Reading Calendar 969.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:
13 Substitution ordered.
14 Senator Skelos.
15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
16 there's a resolution at the desk by Senator
17 Carl Kruger. Could we have the title read and
18 move for its immediate adoption.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
20 clerk will read.
21 THE SECRETARY: By Senator C.
22 Kruger, Legislative Resolution Number 2288,
23 commending Yaakov and Rivka Kornreich upon the
24 occasion of their designation by Young Israel
25 of Avenue J as the guests of honor at its 28th
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1 Annual Dinner on May 20, 2007.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: On the
3 resolution, all in favor signify by saying
4 aye.
5 (Response of "Aye.")
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:
7 Opposed, nay.
8 (No response.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
10 resolution is carried.
11 Senator Skelos.
12 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
13 there will be an immediate meeting of the
14 Rules Committee in the Majority Conference
15 Room.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: There
17 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules
18 Committee in the Majority Conference Room.
19 The Senate stands at ease.
20 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
21 ease at 11:08 a.m.)
22 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened
23 at 11:12 a.m.)
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
25 Senate will come to order.
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1 Senator Skelos.
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
3 if we could return to reports of standing
4 committees, there's a report of the Rules
5 Committee at the desk. I ask that it be read
6 at this time.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
8 Secretary will read.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
10 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
11 following bill direct to third reading:
12 Assembly Print Number 8360, by Member of the
13 Assembly Gunther, an act to amend the Tax Law.
14 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I
15 move to accept the report of the Rules
16 Committee.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
18 motion is on accepting the report of the Rules
19 Committee. All in favor say aye.
20 (Response of "Aye.")
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:
22 Opposed, nay.
23 (No response.)
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
25 Rules report is accepted.
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1 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
2 if we could go to the noncontroversial reading
3 of the calendar.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
5 Secretary will read.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 97, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 1617, an
8 act to amend the Civil Service Law, in
9 relation to leaves of absence.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read
11 the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
15 the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 42.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
19 bill is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 413, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 3748A, an
22 act to amend the Retirement and Social
23 Security Law, in relation to increasing.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read
25 the last section.
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1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
4 the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 42.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
8 bill is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 560, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 3757, an
11 act to amend the Civil Service Law, in
12 relation to collecting interest.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read
14 the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
18 the roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
22 bill is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 696, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 5374A,
25 an act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to
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1 establishing a task force.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read
3 the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
7 the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
11 bill is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 809, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 4374,
14 an act to authorize the Christian City Church
15 of New York City, Inc., to file an
16 application.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read
18 the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
22 the roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
25 the negative on Calendar Number 809 are
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1 Senators Bonacic and Larkin.
2 Ayes, 43. Nays, 2.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
4 bill is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 836, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print
7 4257, an act to amend the Uniform Justice
8 Court Act and the Judiciary Law, in relation
9 to temporary assignment.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read
11 the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
15 the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
19 bill is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 843, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print
22 4988, an act to amend the Surrogate's Court
23 Procedure Act, in relation to providing.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read
25 the last section.
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1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect on the first of January.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
4 the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
8 bill is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 854, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 1991, an
11 act relating to authorizing and directing the
12 Commissioner of General Services.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read
14 the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
18 the roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
22 bill is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 881, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 195, an
25 act to authorize the City of Newburgh to
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1 establish.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: There
3 is a home-rule message present at the desk.
4 Read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
8 the roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
12 bill is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 883, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 588, an
15 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
16 relation to participants.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read
18 the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
22 the roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
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1 bill is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 884, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 900, an
4 act to authorize the Holy Cross Roman Catholic
5 Church to retroactively apply.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read
7 the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
11 the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49. Nays,
14 2. Senators Bonacic and Larkin recorded in
15 the negative.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
17 bill is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 886, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 2150, an
20 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
21 relation to establishing an exemption.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read
23 the last section.
24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
25 act shall take effect immediately.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
2 the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
6 bill is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 892, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4000, an
9 act to amend Chapter 383 of the Laws of 1999
10 relating to creating.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read
12 the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
20 bill is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 895, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4490, an
23 act to authorize Congregation Aish Kodesh to
24 file an application.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read
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1 the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
5 the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49. Nays,
8 2. Senators Bonacic and Larkin recorded in
9 the negative.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
11 bill is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 896, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 4734, an
14 act in relation to authorizing the assessor of
15 the Town of Brookhaven to accept an
16 application.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read
18 the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
22 the roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49. Nays,
25 2. Senators Bonacic and Larkin recorded in
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1 the negative.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
3 bill is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 897, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 4799, an
6 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in
7 relation to residential investment exemption.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read
9 the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
13 the roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
17 bill is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 903, by Senator Little, Senate Print 5491, an
20 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
21 relation to certain county contracts.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read
23 the last section.
24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
25 act shall take effect immediately.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
2 the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54. Nays,
5 1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
7 bill is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 914, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 4351, an
10 act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, in
11 relation to settlement.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read
13 the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
17 the roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
21 bill is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 922, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 4660, an
24 act to amend Chapter 672 of the Laws of 1993,
25 amending the Public Authorities Law.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read
2 the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
6 the roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
10 bill is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 926, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5160, an
13 act to amend Chapter 672 of the Laws of 1993,
14 amending the Public Authorities Law.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read
16 the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
20 the roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
24 bill is passed.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
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1 969, substituted earlier today by Member of
2 the Assembly --
3 SENATOR DUANE: Lay it aside.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Lay it
5 aside.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1123, by Member of the Assembly Gunther,
8 Assembly Print Number 8360, an act to amend
9 the Tax Law, in relation to Sullivan County.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: There
11 is a local fiscal impact statement at the
12 desk.
13 Read the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
17 the roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56. Nays,
20 1. Senator Valesky recorded in the negative.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
22 bill is passed.
23 Senator Skelos, that completes the
24 noncontroversial reading of the calendar.
25 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you,
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1 Mr. President. If we could go to the
2 controversial reading at this time.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
4 Secretary will ring the bell.
5 The Secretary will read.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 969, by Member of the Assembly Sweeney,
8 Assembly Print Number 8017, an act relating to
9 limited exemptions.
10 SENATOR DUANE: Explanation,
11 please.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
13 Marcellino, an explanation has been requested.
14 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes,
15 Mr. President. This legislation would allow
16 certain paints to be sold until July 16, 2007.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
18 Duane.
19 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you,
20 Mr. President.
21 Is this AIM coating considered
22 toxic?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Are you
24 asking Senator Marcellino to yield for a
25 question, Senator Duane?
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1 SENATOR DUANE: Yes, I am,
2 Mr. President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
4 Marcellino, will you yield for a question?
5 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes,
6 Mr. President.
7 The DEC set regs that require that
8 this paint no longer be sold by a certain
9 date. The bill has passed the Assembly just
10 last night, unanimously. The Governor will
11 get it. The DEC commissioner has said he will
12 do a delay of enforcement because there's a
13 gap between when the bill was passed and when
14 it would come into effect. So everybody is on
15 board with the movement of this bill.
16 It would help certain small
17 businesses, who have approximately $20 million
18 worth of inventory still in stock, to move
19 some of this inventory off the shelves. If
20 it's not moved by this particular date, they
21 will donate it to various charitable housing
22 charities and it will be used anyway.
23 SENATOR DUANE: Through you,
24 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue
25 to yield.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
2 Marcellino, would you continue to yield for
3 further questions?
4 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, sir.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
6 Duane.
7 SENATOR DUANE: Is this AIM
8 coating considered toxic?
9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I don't
10 know, Senator.
11 SENATOR DUANE: Through you,
12 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue
13 to yield.
14 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
16 Marcellino yields, Senator Duane.
17 SENATOR DUANE: Why is it not
18 being manufactured anymore?
19 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I'm sorry,
20 but I can't hear the gentleman.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
22 Duane, please repeat the question.
23 SENATOR DUANE: Why is this
24 coating no longer being manufactured?
25 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I don't know
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1 that it's no longer being manufactured.
2 SENATOR DUANE: Through you,
3 Mr. President, why was the original expiration
4 date set?
5 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I don't know
6 that. I didn't set it, Senator. That was set
7 by the DEC, so I have no idea what their
8 requirements are.
9 SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President, I
10 think I'll just speak on the bill, then.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
12 Duane, on the bill.
13 SENATOR DUANE: I am disturbed,
14 to say the least, that the sponsor of this
15 legislation doesn't seem to even know why this
16 legislation is necessary or what's going on
17 with it or whether this coating is toxic and
18 why it's being taken off the market and why
19 are we only extending its -- I mean, I can't
20 believe the lack of knowledge on this.
21 If the sponsor doesn't know, how
22 are the rest of us supposed to know?
23 So I would suggest that we don't go
24 along with this until we have a hearing to get
25 some answers to our questions.
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1 Again, I'm just -- I'm shocked,
2 shocked that we can't get any answers on this
3 issue. Of course no one wants to hurt small
4 businesses. But maybe the question is why are
5 manufacturers manufacturing what I have come
6 to understand is a toxic substance.
7 And who cares whether the Assembly
8 passed it unanimously? That's not an
9 explanation for the bill. And why would we be
10 donating toxic substances to nonprofit
11 organizations? So they can poison their -- I
12 don't get that.
13 So I don't understand why we're
14 rushing this through. Didn't we know about
15 this issue months ago? Why is this bill just
16 arriving today and needs to be pushed through
17 today?
18 So I just think it's the worst kind
19 of legislating. And if we're going to
20 supposedly be reforming how we do things
21 around here, let's at least know what we're
22 voting on and have information on why it is
23 that bills are coming before us.
24 Thank you, Mr. President.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
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1 you, Senator Duane.
2 Is there any other Senator wishing
3 to be heard?
4 Senator Little, on the bill.
5 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you,
6 Mr. President.
7 I would like to thank Senator
8 Marcellino for putting forth this bill.
9 This is a type of paint that has
10 been decided that it can no longer be used in
11 this state. However, the date when it had to
12 be taken off the shelves did not allow enough
13 time for this paint to be sold. And this
14 paint has been used for years and years and
15 years in New York State.
16 I have heard from many of my retail
17 stores in my district who sell this paint, who
18 no longer buy it. But rather than have to
19 absorb the costs of the paint that they
20 bought, they would like to be able to sell
21 this paint, and they feel they need another
22 60 days. In a rural area, you have to
23 understand, you don't get as many sales as you
24 get in a larger area.
25 So I appreciate the fact that this
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1 bill has been put forward. After that certain
2 date, it will no longer be sold in New York
3 State and we will be in compliance. We're
4 just asking for a few more days in order to
5 sell the stock that these small rural stores
6 already have.
7 Thank you.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
9 you, Senator Little.
10 Senator Farley, on the bill.
11 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes. Senator
12 Duane, this is not a big deal.
13 This is paint that has been sold
14 for years and years in this state. The big
15 box stores -- the Wal-Marts, the Lowe's, the
16 Home Depots -- they're just sending this paint
17 out to another state to be sold.
18 The small little retailer that is
19 around in our districts, and I think in almost
20 every Senator's district, is stuck with this
21 paint. They came up with an arbitrary date
22 for which they had to get rid of the paint.
23 There wasn't enough time for these small
24 little retailers to unload the paint in a sale
25 or whatever it might be. All this bill does
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1 is give them a little bit more time.
2 And I think every Senator in this
3 house has some sort of a small retailer that
4 does not have outlets out of state where they
5 could ship the paint to. And this just allows
6 the small retailer to get rid of the paint at
7 a retail basis. And a number of them have
8 complained about this.
9 And I don't think DEC, when they
10 came up with this arbitrary date, really
11 intended that the small guy would get stuck
12 with the paint and the big box stores would be
13 able to get rid of it.
14 I support the bill, and I urge
15 everybody to vote for it.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
17 you, Senator Farley.
18 Senator Seward.
19 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes,
20 Mr. President. I too would like to rise and
21 thank Senator Marcellino for his leadership in
22 presenting this legislation that's before us
23 at this time.
24 Just building on what Senator
25 Little and Senator Farley have outlined, this
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1 bill is in response to emergency rules that
2 were promulgated over at DEC regarding
3 reducing the emissions of these VOCs which are
4 in paints that have been manufactured prior to
5 January 1, 2005.
6 And it is important. I think no
7 one is disagreeing with getting these off the
8 shelves in New York State. But as has been
9 explained, DEC came in with this emergency
10 rule right in the wintertime when many of
11 our -- particularly our small paint shops just
12 weren't able to sell their product because it
13 was wintertime. Nobody was out there painting
14 their houses in December, January and
15 February.
16 And so the May 15th date -- spring
17 has come a little late in many of our areas,
18 and they're still not painting. They're just
19 starting to. So between now and July 16th,
20 extension of this date will allow our
21 particularly small retailers to sell the
22 product that they've already bought and have
23 no way of recouping that investment unless
24 they sell the paints. That will give them
25 ample time to get these paints off their
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1 shelves. And then from July 16 on, it will be
2 a whole different ball game.
3 So this is a commonsense approach,
4 it's pro-business, pro-environment, and I'm
5 very pleased to support the bill.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
7 you, Senator Seward.
8 Senator Craig Johnson.
9 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank
10 you, Mr. President.
11 I rise to support the legislation,
12 as the ranking member of the Environmental
13 Conservation Committee, but to also thank
14 Senator Duane for raising these questions
15 because I think it's important, you know, for
16 the entire Senate body to raise these
17 questions and to seek those answers because
18 they are valid, important points. And I think
19 it's troubling that we weren't able to have
20 those answers.
21 But I think it does provide us, as
22 Senator Seward talks about, with a commonsense
23 solution.
24 But we should be mindful that this
25 is an absolute deadline. We're willing to
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1 give our small retailers a chance to sell off
2 this product, but I don't want to be back here
3 in June, I don't want to be back here next
4 year that we have to do some sort of
5 retroactive ability to let these small
6 retailers sell it off. An additional 60 days
7 is worthwhile, it's necessary, it allows them
8 the time to get it off their shelves. But at
9 that point, that's it.
10 And we need to continue to protect
11 our environment and continue to prevent these
12 types of paints from going out into the public
13 realm, because we don't know what the impacts
14 are going to be on the health, the welfare and
15 the safety of our children and of our parents
16 and of our grandparents.
17 So I commend Senator Duane for
18 raising the questions. I thank Senator
19 Marcellino for sponsoring this bill. And I
20 vote yes. Thank you very much.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
22 DeFrancisco, why do you rise?
23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would
24 Senator Johnson answer a question?
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Order,
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1 guys.
2 Senator Johnson, will you yield for
3 a question from Senator DeFrancisco?
4 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I don't
5 know. But sure. Why not.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
7 DeFrancisco.
8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: You're the
9 ranking member of the Environmental
10 Conservation Committee?
11 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Yes.
12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Could you
13 please answer Senator Duane's questions?
14 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Well, I
15 can't. I don't have the --
16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would you
17 do it, please?
18 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: But I'm
19 also not the sponsor of the bill. And I think
20 that what's appropriate is the sponsor of the
21 bill stood up and told the Senate -- I'm not
22 even on the bill. That's a very valid point.
23 Nor was I even asked to be on the bill.
24 But the valid point is that Senator
25 Marcellino is the sponsor of the bill, Senator
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1 Marcellino is the one who is pushing forth the
2 bill, it went through Rules. And actually
3 maybe Senator DeFrancisco can ask the chairman
4 of Rules to answer the very same question.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
6 DeFrancisco, why do you rise?
7 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would the
8 Senator yield to another question?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
10 Johnson, will you continue to yield?
11 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I will
12 always yield to questions, unlike other
13 members.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
15 DeFrancisco.
16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator
17 Johnson, you voted yes in committee?
18 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Yes, and
19 I will vote yes here as well.
20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And could
21 you just answer one last question?
22 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I will
23 continue to yield for the last question.
24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would you
25 recommend, based upon your study of this bill,
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1 to Senator Duane that this bill should be
2 voted in the affirmative because his concerns
3 are not well founded? Would you be willing
4 to --
5 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I'm
6 sorry, could you repeat the question? I'm
7 trying to formulate the answer as you're
8 asking me the question.
9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: My question
10 is, since you voted for the bill, since
11 obviously you know the answer to the questions
12 Senator Duane raised --
13 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Oh, I
14 don't know the answer to the questions Senator
15 Duane raised. I don't think Senator
16 Marcellino knows the same answers. I don't
17 think any of us know the answers to the same
18 questions, so --
19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Can we
20 allow Senator DeFrancisco to ask the question.
21 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I
22 apologize, Mr. President.
23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator
24 Johnson, since you don't know the answer to
25 these questions which you just said were valid
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1 questions by Senator Duane, what was your
2 basis for voting yes in committee and for
3 voting yes today?
4 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Oh, I
5 think it was similar to a lot of us voting for
6 the very same bill, is the need -- is while
7 we're giving the small retail businesses the
8 ability to sell off this paint, we're also
9 setting a drop-dead date of July 16, 2007. So
10 we're doing the appropriate balance, the
11 deliberative balance that we need to provide
12 for our small businesses and for our
13 environment.
14 What I'm also pointing out is
15 important is that we've set now the drop-dead
16 date. Well, the original drop-dead date was
17 set. Of course, we don't know why that date
18 was set; that was another question asked by
19 Senator Duane. But we've now extended it by
20 60 days to give small businesses the ability
21 to sell off -- because it is important. They
22 don't have the ability to do it quickly like
23 the Wal-Marts and the Lowe's.
24 So I'm willing to join my
25 colleagues on your side of the aisle, Senator
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1 DeFrancisco, to give them that ability to do
2 it while also protecting our environment.
3 No more? Okay, thank you.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Adams.
5 SENATOR ADAMS: Yeah, I rise and
6 I ask, Mr. President, would the sponsor of the
7 bill yield for a question?
8 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, the
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR ADAMS: I'm trying to
11 decide which way I'm going to vote, so I need
12 a little assistance.
13 Through you, Mr. President, is the
14 paint -- is it considered dangerous? Has it
15 be classified as dangerous by any governmental
16 body at all?
17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: The DEC has
18 determined that this paint should no longer be
19 sold in the State of New York because, when
20 you open the container, certain compounds are
21 released.
22 They set a date. When I was asked
23 why the reason for the date, I have no idea,
24 because I wasn't part of that negotiations,
25 I'm not a member of the DEC, I'm not employed
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1 by them. The date was set by them. It was
2 purely an arbitrary date on their part to set
3 that up. They will tell you that.
4 They are on board with this bill.
5 The DEC supports this bill. The commissioner
6 has said he will set aside any enforcement --
7 because there is a gap when this bill is being
8 pass and will be signed, as to when the
9 original deadline, which was yesterday, was to
10 come into effect. So there will be no
11 enforcement of this bill in the gap because
12 Commissioner Grannis has said he will delay
13 that by an order of his.
14 The Governor I assume is on board,
15 because Mr. Grannis works for him. So the
16 bill is going to go immediately to the
17 Governor's office, according to the Assembly,
18 and will be signed by the Governor.
19 So everyone is on board to do this
20 for these businesses. They will take this
21 paint and donate it to charities who will use
22 it. Housing groups that build affordable
23 housing for people, they will use this paint.
24 As was stated before, it is being used all
25 over the country now. These are small
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1 mom-and-pop operations that cannot simply
2 offload it. They have not got the ability.
3 I was asked by Senator Krueger
4 earlier, couldn't they just give it back.
5 Well, the answer is no. It was legally
6 produced. It was legal when it was purchased.
7 It was determined by the DEC to be -- not to
8 be sold by a particular date. Their reasons
9 are theirs.
10 So what we're doing, as has been
11 stated by my colleagues and as I stated
12 earlier, and has been stated by Senator
13 Johnson, is simply giving the small business
14 person the opportunity to move some product so
15 that they don't get buried with the cost of
16 this particular product on their shelves.
17 That's all we're doing.
18 There will be no other bills, by
19 the way, to answer Senator Johnson. There
20 will be no other bills that this Senator will
21 permit out of the Environmental Conservation
22 Committee to extend any deadlines. This is
23 it.
24 SENATOR ADAMS: Mr. President,
25 would the sponsor yield for another question?
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1 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, I will
2 yield.
3 SENATOR ADAMS: Did the DEC state
4 by extending the two-month period that the
5 danger level would change in any way? Would
6 the danger level still be the same two months
7 later?
8 SENATOR MARCELLINO: No, we have
9 nothing from the DEC on this. I can only
10 assume -- and you know the adage, when you
11 assume, the danger you take on. We can only
12 assume that the DEC determines that there is
13 no credible danger by extending this for a
14 couple of months.
15 SENATOR ADAMS: Thank you.
16 On the bill, Mr. President.
17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Adams, on
18 the bill.
19 SENATOR ADAMS: I'm a bit
20 dismayed by even the comments, not only from
21 the sponsor but others on the floor. Are we
22 putting profit over public safety? I would
23 love to see our small businesses thrive and
24 grow and turn into the large stores.
25 But if the organizations and
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1 agencies that we put in place to determine if
2 a particular item is dangerous for the
3 environment and our community gives us a date
4 when it should be removed, to hear the
5 reasoning for not removing the item is because
6 we don't want people to lose a profit, to me
7 that's troubling. That is not the role of
8 government, to put profit over public safety.
9 Yes, the paint was legal at one
10 time. But you know what? So was asbestos.
11 That was allowable and permissible to be in
12 buildings. But look what it has done to many
13 of the employees that breathe in that
14 substance. If it was dangerous when the DEC
15 gave a cutoff date, then it's going to be
16 dangerous two months later and it's going to
17 be dangerous when you put it into public
18 housing to put on walls and buildings where
19 people live. It's dangerous. It's dangerous.
20 If anything, we should be talking
21 about how to give tax incentives to those
22 small businesses that are going to lose from
23 having to turn over this product. But to
24 state that the reason for extending the delay
25 is because we don't want a ma-and-pa business
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1 to lose profit, well, ma and pa is going to
2 lose their children to dangerous substances in
3 our society. That's wrong.
4 I can't even see the logic of
5 extending a delay that DEC made based on the
6 profitability of the businesses involved. And
7 how could we even accept that and use that as
8 an excuse? Then in that case, let's continue
9 to have asbestos. Let's continue it a little
10 longer. Let's continue to identify all the
11 substances that we identify, and let's tell
12 those children up in the rafters that the
13 profit is more important than their safety,
14 it's more important than what they breathe in
15 and consume.
16 There's no way I could vote for a
17 bill merely based on the bottom line of
18 manufacturers. I base the bill on the bottom
19 line of the most important commodity in my
20 community, and that's my children. That's who
21 I believe is first. And I'm sure the ma and
22 pas would understand that, because the reason
23 they're ma and pa is because they have
24 children.
25 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Duane.
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1 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you,
2 Mr. President.
3 An awful lot of protesting going on
4 here. I don't know, you know, it seems to me
5 that if something is toxic when you open up
6 the can, that's a bad sign. You know what I'm
7 saying? I wouldn't want to open up one of
8 these cans, frankly.
9 And, you know, PCBs, creosote was
10 legally manufactured. How delicious was
11 creosote; right? Who would ever forget
12 breathing in a big whiff of creosote; right?
13 You know, if this paint is so good
14 for nonprofits, maybe my colleagues would like
15 to paint their offices with it. Maybe the
16 Capitol should be painted with it. And maybe
17 we should open up the cans for the nonprofits.
18 Right?
19 You know, I don't get it. If it's
20 bad, if it's toxic, then we shouldn't be
21 selling it. And if the big manufacturers, who
22 probably did know that it was bad, were
23 dumping it on the small retailers, well, maybe
24 they should be investigated. Maybe this is
25 something for the Attorney General to look
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1 into, why this crummy toxic stuff, coating,
2 was being dumped on the small people. You can
3 bet that Wal-Mart is not going to suffer.
4 Right? If it's just the small ones, Wal-Mart
5 probably already dumped the stuff. We're
6 probably lucky they didn't dump it into the
7 Hudson.
8 So just in good conscience I cannot
9 vote for this. And you know what, I don't
10 want it to be donated to nonprofits. I want
11 this stuff just to be gotten rid of. And I
12 want the small business people to be made
13 whole, and I think they should be made whole
14 by the manufacturers.
15 So I'll be voting no on this, and
16 really with just -- I'm just appalled and,
17 frankly, outraged. Nonprofits? I don't
18 really -- I don't get that at all.
19 Thank you, Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
21 Morahan.
22 SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you,
23 Mr. President.
24 I just rise to perhaps shed some
25 more light on this particular issue. The DEC
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1 several years ago, with the advice of the
2 federal government, decided that this
3 particular product or this particular
4 ingredient in our paint products would be
5 better removed than to continue.
6 They set up a timetable, which
7 indicates to me that there was really no
8 terrible sense of urgency. They set a
9 timetable up so that the manufacturers of I
10 believe it's 4 million gallons of paint a year
11 would be the first that would start to remove
12 this from the paint. And they gave them a
13 year, the DEC gave the large manufacturers a
14 year to move the products that they had
15 already manufactured.
16 There's also smaller manufacturers,
17 and those manufacturers were given two years
18 to sell their product. So they could continue
19 to make the product for two years before they
20 would have to stop.
21 After much negotiation, the DEC, to
22 put the small manufacturer on the same playing
23 field, the same level with the large
24 manufacturers, pulled back that deadline so
25 that all manufacturers had to stop making the
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1 product by a certain year, and I believe it
2 was December 31st of the year 2006.
3 Thereafter the DEC said fine. Now
4 we've stopped the manufacturing, and now the
5 product is out in the marketplace in the small
6 stores and big stores. The big stores, who
7 have chains around the country, offloaded what
8 they wanted to to their other stores outside
9 of New York. Not all states have banned this
10 product at this particular time, to my
11 knowledge.
12 And they gave a date, which was
13 yesterday, on the assumption by that time the
14 small stores would have moved the product off
15 the shelf. Fully knowing that after the sale,
16 people would open the paint. After the sale,
17 the product was still there. And they picked
18 a date.
19 And as Senator Seward pointed out,
20 no one was really conscious, in my mind, that
21 the paints really weren't being used to a
22 great degree in the deep months of the winter.
23 So now the DEC has agreed to extend
24 the date from yesterday to July 16th. This is
25 an issue that has been going on for several
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1 years. And the DEC has been in this
2 negotiation all the way, with the large
3 manufacturers, then the small manufacturers,
4 and now the retailers. And there have been
5 changes in implementation dates as they have
6 gone along.
7 Now it was just felt that if they
8 could have this little extra time that the
9 small mom-and-pop hardware stores would be
10 able to sell the paint. What they do with it
11 thereafter is their business. No one's asking
12 for a recall or destruction of the paint. But
13 they've asked for July 16th.
14 So the bill was passed in the
15 Assembly. The bill is now being passed in
16 this house. The DEC knows the Governor will
17 sign this bill. And then the store owners
18 will have a little bit of time so they don't
19 get financially crippled.
20 But I think that -- this is only
21 given as an explanation on how we got to this
22 point, but I think in the explanation and the
23 time frame in which all of this has started
24 that brought us to today, indicates to me as a
25 layperson -- not a scientist, not a chemical
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1 engineer -- that the DEC is not overly alarmed
2 about the toxicity of this product.
3 And I believe Senator Marcellino's
4 bill is a fair and equitable response to the
5 small retailers that has been agreed to by all
6 concerned, including the DEC. I'm going to
7 support the bill.
8 Thank you, Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
10 you, Senator Morahan.
11 Senator Wright.
12 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you,
13 Mr. President.
14 I want to join my colleague Senator
15 Morahan in trying to provide a voice of reason
16 on this topic.
17 As he rightfully points out, this
18 is not occurring in other states. So what is
19 happening with the Wal-Marts and the large
20 retailers is they simply move it to their
21 Pennsylvania store, their New Jersey store,
22 any other store in their chain except those in
23 the state of New York. Because New York is
24 adopting this standard alone.
25 And why? Because New York is
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1 attempting to comply with clean air standards
2 that are required by the federal government,
3 primarily in the larger metropolitan area,
4 which we recognize and are all trying to
5 comply with.
6 It is not an issue of critical
7 public health. Otherwise, the DEC
8 commissioner wouldn't be recommending it.
9 Otherwise, the Governor wouldn't be indicating
10 his concurrence with the extension. And the
11 health commissioner would certainly be
12 intervening to protect the children and the
13 people of the state of New York.
14 It is not about profits for small
15 businesses, it's simply about recovering a
16 loss that's being imposed upon them for the
17 State of New York. I think the approach is
18 reasonable, it's prudent. Frankly, would I
19 prefer to have it longer? Yes, I would. But
20 this is the compromise negotiated. It's an
21 appropriate response by Commissioner Grannis
22 to an issue that was raised during his
23 confirmation.
24 And I would suggest we all just
25 take a reasonable, balanced approach to it and
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1 move forward. No one, but no one, is in
2 jeopardy with this legislation.
3 I vote aye.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
5 Connor.
6 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 And I want to thank my colleagues
9 for the explanations. I think Senator
10 Morahan's explanation made it quite clear to
11 me what's happened here.
12 And I certainly understand the
13 plight of the small retailers, the small
14 hardware stores. You don't sell a lot of
15 paint in the Adirondacks in January. You do
16 sell a lot at the end of May and June. I have
17 some painting to do myself. And I guess there
18 will be some good sales.
19 But it's clear that this product is
20 not a good one to have over time, but there's
21 no imminent danger. And if anyone is to be
22 faulted here, perhaps it's the last
23 administration's DEC, which I now realize,
24 from what Senator Morahan explained, may have
25 been overly accommodating to the manufacturers
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1 in allowing them to continue to manufacture
2 for a period of two years and put that into
3 the retail stream so that here we are now.
4 And I don't think profits should
5 come ahead of health. We're not talking about
6 anybody's profits here. We're talking about
7 people who are going to bear a loss. And for
8 those small retailers, they exist on very
9 small economic margins.
10 The fact is all the profit-takers,
11 Mr. President, took their profit. The
12 manufacturers made their money, they got to
13 manufacture it for an additional two years and
14 dumped the product into the stream. The large
15 retailers are going to make their profits.
16 They'll make it now in Pennsylvania and
17 New Jersey and elsewhere, by shipping the
18 product there. And it's really only the
19 little guy who's going to get stuck.
20 And I really doubt, given this
21 deadline, that any of these small hardware
22 stores or paint stores, general stores, which
23 sell paint in a lot of areas, that they're
24 going to look to make a profit on this.
25 They're going to look to get it off their
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1 shelves. They're going to look to get back
2 what they already spent and avoid a loss.
3 So it's this is not about profits,
4 it's about avoiding a loss for the smallest
5 players in the scene. And if anyone is to be
6 criticized, it's the DEC, who, knowing two or
7 three years this was a bad product, still
8 allowed its manufacture and introduction into
9 the retail stream in New York State.
10 So this bill is a reasonable
11 compromise, and I intend to support it. I see
12 no imminent danger in allowing this paint to
13 be sold until July 16th.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
15 Klein.
16 SENATOR KLEIN: On the bill,
17 Mr. President.
18 I certainly have a lot of
19 questions. I appreciate Senator Morahan's
20 response as to the process of how we came to
21 this place. But I would think -- I'm not
22 chair of the Environmental Protection
23 Committee, but I would think that this is not
24 a very common practice in New York State for
25 DEC to ban a certain type of coating. I
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1 assume there was a report that was done, there
2 was reasons.
3 And what I would also like to know
4 is -- one of the questions is, why isn't it
5 that this is a product that's banned
6 nationally if there is a danger? I don't
7 think these questions are unreasonable.
8 And before we have the opportunity
9 to vote on a piece of legislation like this, I
10 think it's incumbent upon all of us to really
11 know all these reasons. You know, I've been
12 someone who spent a long time on consumer
13 issues, especially a lot of them with one of
14 my colleagues, Senator Fuschillo. And again,
15 this is something that I think goes to the
16 very health and safety of the residents of
17 New York State.
18 And I certainly understand the
19 plight of small business. But then again, I
20 have to ask the question, why isn't the
21 manufacturer making these small businesses
22 whole? There's a lot of questions here.
23 Another question I think has to be,
24 do now these small businesses have an
25 affirmative duty to warn the potential
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1 purchaser that this was something that was
2 banned in New York State by DEC?
3 You know, I think it's absolutely
4 insane for us to be passing a piece of
5 legislation unless we have answers to all of
6 these questions. So I respectfully vote no,
7 Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
9 Bonacic.
10 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you,
11 Mr. President.
12 You know the debate today, to me
13 it's a tempest in a teapot. And the tone that
14 I'm hearing from the other side -- not all the
15 members -- is that small businesses are making
16 a profit at the expense of the health of our
17 citizen citizens. I bet the air in New York
18 City every day that you breathe is more
19 dangerous than this paint.
20 I know of no one in the last twenty
21 years that used this paint that has suffered,
22 as people do with respiratory illness from the
23 air in New York City.
24 But I'm not here to give a sermon.
25 I just want to talk about balance and common
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1 sense. I want to remind my colleagues that
2 small businesses create 90 percent of the jobs
3 in the state of New York. Every one of us in
4 this room, as government officials, do not
5 create one cent of wealth. I could not pay
6 your salary or you pay my salary. Private
7 sector pays our salary from their activities.
8 That's what enables us to do the good things
9 that we do in education, in healthcare, in
10 transportation, in everything else.
11 And you know what? The small
12 businesses have said: We're in a jam. Some
13 of us are going to take a beating, as Senator
14 Connor said. Not a profit, but a beating.
15 Mainly upstate. Most of these stores for the
16 most part are little independent hardware
17 stores. And they're saying give us an
18 accommodation, give us 60 days to get rid of
19 the product. That's what they're asking.
20 It's a matter of balance. And I happen to
21 think it's reasonable.
22 If the DEC put July as the final
23 date to get the stuff off, would we be having
24 this debate? Would anybody be dying in the 60
25 days? So come on, let's be practical. It's
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1 simply an accommodation for small businesses,
2 who create the wealth for us and create the
3 economic vitality for this state to function.
4 That's what this is about. A tempest in a
5 teapot.
6 I vote yes. Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
9 Perkins.
10 SENATOR PERKINS: Thank you,
11 Mr. President.
12 First of all, I want to thank my
13 colleague Senator Duane for raising this
14 issue.
15 It's a remarkable discussion that's
16 been going on. It's clear from the discussion
17 that this paint had no business on the market
18 to begin with. And it seems to me that this
19 is not about business as much as it's about
20 environmental and health issues.
21 Ten thousand children are poisoned
22 by lead paint every year in this state.
23 Crippled for life. How many children are
24 going to be poisoned by this paint that has
25 been outlawed because it's unhealthy and it's
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1 dangerous?
2 Now, I hear that our new
3 commissioner and our new Governor have
4 endorsed this bill and the extension for the
5 use of this paint. I'm disturbed and alarmed
6 to hear that. I hope you're wrong. I do not
7 believe that this Governor or this new
8 commissioner should be supporting the
9 extension of something that has clearly been
10 outlawed as being dangerous in terms of
11 people's health and safety.
12 So I don't see this as an attack on
13 small business. In fact, quite the opposite.
14 I see this as an attack on the most vulnerable
15 of our citizens; in fact, the future of our
16 state, the children. And I would like to know
17 how many of our children are being crippled or
18 suffering from the use of this paint and how
19 long are we going to continue to allow this
20 type of product to be extended or used in our
21 state.
22 I think that the Senator from
23 Brooklyn, Senator Adams, makes a good point,
24 that we don't have the right to be balancing
25 people's profits at the expense of the health
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1 of our children.
2 And I think that while these small
3 owners may not be the culprits in this
4 picture, nevertheless something has to be done
5 to protect those who are most vulnerable and
6 most likely to be hurt by this product.
7 So I can't -- as much as I support
8 small businesses, I can't see supporting the
9 extension. And in fact, I think it's
10 outrageous that this product was ever on the
11 market to begin with. And so I will be voting
12 no.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
14 Adams, do you wish to be heard again?
15 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes.
16 You know, there's probably a level
17 of urgency in my tone because I heard those
18 famous terms so often: No danger, don't
19 worry, everything is okay. I think about the
20 number of police officers I supervised down at
21 9/11. I heard Christine Whitman say: Oh, no
22 danger, just breathe the air, don't worry
23 about a face mask. Now they have cancer. Now
24 no one wants to give them the money they need
25 for health insurance.
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1 I heard no danger when my cousin
2 went over to Vietnam and Agent Orange was
3 poisoning the air. No danger, everything is
4 all right.
5 No danger when lead paint was
6 painted in our community and our kids were
7 dying. No danger, just move nice and calm.
8 No danger if you smoke a pack a
9 day. It's all right, it's just a little
10 smoke. Everything is -- just move quickly and
11 nicely. No danger.
12 The heck with no danger. The
13 erosion of our society is not an instant
14 process. It's the slow dismantling of our
15 environment. When the heck are we going to
16 catch on? Our society is eroding. All over
17 the globe people are talking about what is
18 happening in our society. One year I'm in
19 Alaska looking at the icebergs; next year I go
20 there, the darn place is melting. And we sit
21 here saying no danger. So what? Take our
22 time.
23 I can't buy that. If anything, we
24 should be aggressive to go after those
25 manufacturers and demand that they reimburse
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1 these small businesses. There may be possible
2 legal ramifications for what took place, that
3 they intentionally sold paint that they knew
4 was banned in New York City.
5 This is what we should be talking
6 about. If that paint did not sell in two
7 years, it's not going to sell in two months.
8 Who are we kidding? And I'm hearing -- I
9 can't believe what I'm hearing.
10 Nonprofits take care of the least
11 among us. So we're saying give it to the
12 nonprofits. Public housing are not those CEOs
13 on Wall Street. Those are the least among us.
14 Put it in public housing. Do we hear what
15 we're saying?
16 And how dare Senator Perkins and
17 Senator Adams stand up and think about Agent
18 Orange, cigarette smoke, 9/11. We've heard
19 this before: Don't worry, be happy. It's no
20 major thing. We can't have these small
21 businesses lose their profits. Let's make
22 sure we sponsor them.
23 It's wrong. It's wrong. And I
24 think if anything, if we should do anything
25 today, we should ensure that an investigation
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1 takes place so we will set the tone for future
2 behaviors. When you know a product is banned
3 in New York City, to continue to sell it -- we
4 should make sure that doesn't take place. And
5 if it's sold in Pennsylvania, if it's sold in
6 Maryland, if it's sold in California, you know
7 what? I'm not elected to the state senate of
8 those areas. I'm elected to the state senate
9 of New York. The agencies in New York make a
10 determination that the product is illegal, it
11 is not healthy, that's the body I'm going to
12 listen to.
13 Because I'm not a scientist, I'm
14 not a doctor. I don't know what are the
15 ramifications. I'm a Senator from a small
16 place in central Brooklyn. The experts we
17 hired to make this determination said it's
18 wrong. And no matter what you tell me, it's
19 not going to change in two months, it's not
20 going to change if it's on the walls of 40
21 projects, it's not going to change if it's on
22 the wall of some nonprofit in Troy, New York.
23 It's dangerous. It's dangerous.
24 And the danger is not going to change no
25 matter how much someone lose money. It's
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1 wrong. And what we're doing today is wrong.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
3 Bonacic, why do you rise?
4 SENATOR BONACIC: Senator Adams,
5 would you yield to a question?
6 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes, I will.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: He
8 yields, Senator Bonacic.
9 SENATOR BONACIC: Is there any
10 memo in opposition from any health
11 organization or health official as to the
12 dangers that you are speaking about with
13 respect to the substance of this bill? That
14 you know of.
15 SENATOR ADAMS: When I stood up,
16 Senator, and I questioned what was taking
17 place, it was because I didn't have knowledge.
18 So I based my knowledge on the person who
19 sponsored the bill and on the agency that
20 stated it was dangerous.
21 Now, if that agency is saying it's
22 no longer dangerous, then I'll vote for this
23 bill. But until that agency tells me it is no
24 longer dangerous, then there's no reason for
25 me to vote for the bill.
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1 SENATOR BONACIC: Will you
2 continue to yield to another question?
3 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes, I will.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: He
5 yields.
6 SENATOR BONACIC: Has there been
7 any environmental watchdog or agency -- I'm
8 not talking about DEC now -- that has weighed
9 in in opposition to this bill that would
10 extend the 60 days, creating a danger to the
11 environment?
12 SENATOR ADAMS: There was a
13 terminology that I coined several months ago,
14 "trickology." Who knew this was coming
15 through? Who knew this was coming through?
16 It's important for me to call these
17 environmentalist groups that I respect and say
18 what shall we do here. How about letting us
19 know what's coming through, not walking
20 through these chambers and say, hey, guess
21 what, we're going to drop this on your desk.
22 So are you aware, did you tell us
23 this was coming through, to give me the right,
24 as an elected official, to call my
25 environmentalists and tell them what's going
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1 on?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: I would
3 ask the members to please address their
4 interaction to the chair.
5 Senator Bonacic.
6 SENATOR BONACIC: Mr. President,
7 I just would like to answer Senator Adams'
8 question.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: You
10 may, Senator Bonacic.
11 SENATOR BONACIC: Yes. From my
12 experience in Albany, environmental groups,
13 healthcare groups, they are much more ahead in
14 watching everything that happens with bills as
15 they come before this body.
16 So I would suggest to you that they
17 know the bill before we know about it. And I
18 have not seen any memos in opposition from any
19 healthcare organization or any environmental
20 organization with respect to the substance of
21 this bill. Have you?
22 SENATOR ADAMS: Mr. President,
23 may I respond to his question?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: You may
25 respond. You have the floor.
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1 SENATOR ADAMS: First of all,
2 Senator, if I had the staff allocation that
3 you do, my staff would have better ability to
4 find out many more things that you're able to
5 find out. But as you know, I'm not funded as
6 good as you are to have that staff.
7 Nonetheless, it is important that
8 we are aware prior to a bill being introduced,
9 particularly of this magnitude and impact on
10 the environment that we live in and breathe,
11 that we are aware of it so we can call those
12 agencies.
13 I don't know if the agencies are
14 aware that this information -- or these
15 organizations are aware that this bill is here
16 today. This was a bill that we walked in. I
17 found out the first time this bill was going
18 to be introduced when I walked inside this
19 chamber. That's wrong.
20 And if I had that information
21 beforehand, then I could respond to your
22 question in a more effective manner. But I
23 didn't have that information.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
25 Bonacic.
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1 SENATOR BONACIC: Just one other
2 point, Senator Adams, if I may.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Will
4 the Senator continue to yield?
5 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes, I will.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
7 Bonacic.
8 SENATOR BONACIC: I agree with
9 you that you should have the same allocation
10 as every other Senator here. That's point
11 number one.
12 But point number two, whether you
13 had allocations or not, the watchdog groups
14 give these memos in opposition not connected
15 to resources to our Senate office. You
16 realize that; right?
17 In other words, they do this on
18 their own, with their own resources. We don't
19 trigger these reports from healthcare
20 officials or environmental groups when it
21 comes to memos in opposition to bills that are
22 before us. You realize that, do you not?
23 SENATOR ADAMS: Is that a
24 rhetorical question, or do you want me to
25 reply?
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1 SENATOR BONACIC: Well, let's
2 just leave it at a rhetorical question. I
3 thank you for your courtesy, Senator.
4 Thank you, Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
6 Adams, on the bill.
7 SENATOR ADAMS: May I respond to
8 the Senator?
9 Watchdog groups and the
10 environmental organizations have a role to
11 assist us in shaping the policies and the
12 decisions we make on the Senate floor.
13 Governmental agencies have the responsibility
14 to represent our concerns.
15 The governmental agency that stated
16 the paint was dangerous made that
17 determination. And that is when I first stood
18 up to ask the sponsor of the bill, how do we
19 arrive here? The sponsor of the bill shared
20 with me not a watchdog group, not a special
21 interest group, but a governmental agency made
22 the determination that the paint was
23 dangerous.
24 And what I attempted to share with
25 my colleagues, there's historical data that
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1 shows -- from Christine Whitman telling the
2 police officers, the firefighters everything
3 is fine while they're breathing in toxic air,
4 to cigarette manufacturers stating it's all
5 right to smoke a pack a day -- we have
6 historical data that shows individuals decide
7 that profit is more important than the safety
8 of the public. And we are the body that's in
9 charge of saying no.
10 And for us to believe that the mere
11 fact that the paint is not sold out of a ma
12 and pa or a big box store, that the danger
13 level is going to change, that's wrong. And I
14 disagree with that.
15 And that is why, after speaking to
16 the sponsor, hearing the debates, that I made
17 the determination that my community that I
18 represent comes first. And that's why I will
19 be voting no.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
21 you, Senator Adams.
22 Senator Saland.
23 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you,
24 Mr. President.
25 Mr. President, would Senator Adams
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1 yield to a question?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
3 Adams, will you yield for a question?
4 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes, I will.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
6 Saland.
7 SENATOR SALAND: Senator Adams, I
8 believe you said that government agencies have
9 a responsibility, and I believe that means to
10 afford protection to one or another group or
11 to a community. Is that correct?
12 SENATOR ADAMS: No, I don't know
13 how you interpret my statement to say that.
14 That's not what I stated.
15 SENATOR SALAND: Well, your words
16 were, and I lost you, "government agencies
17 have a responsibility." And then you went on
18 to say "and a government agency made the
19 determination that this paint was dangerous."
20 SENATOR ADAMS: That's exactly
21 what I stated.
22 SENATOR SALAND: Which government
23 organization was that?
24 SENATOR ADAMS: DEC. The agency
25 that --
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1 SENATOR SALAND: And then if I
2 heard you correctly, you talked about the
3 terrible things that happened in the aftermath
4 of 9/11. You made reference to Christie
5 Whitman and firefighters breathing in toxic
6 air, did you not?
7 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes, I did.
8 SENATOR SALAND: And that has
9 sensitized all of us, has it not? If we
10 weren't concerned before, we certainly should
11 be concerned now, would that not be --
12 SENATOR ADAMS: No, I disagree.
13 I felt that you're not sensitized, because
14 you're doing the same thing that Christine
15 Whitman did. So --
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
17 Connor, why do you rise?
18 SENATOR CONNOR: I rise for a
19 point of order.
20 I'm getting a little confused here
21 because of repeated questions without anyone
22 yielding. It wasn't clear to me in the last
23 dialogue who had the floor. It couldn't have
24 been Senator Adams, because he would have
25 spoken three times.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
2 Connor, Senator Adams has yielded to Senator
3 Saland for questions.
4 So what is your point of order,
5 sir?
6 SENATOR CONNOR: They're asking
7 repeated questions. They have to ask them
8 through the chair, Mr. President. And they're
9 not doing that. And that is --
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: I
11 remind the members --
12 SENATOR SALAND: If I've been
13 inappropriate, Senator Connor, I certainly
14 apologize and will direct my questions through
15 the chair.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
17 Saland, do you --
18 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you,
19 Mr. President.
20 Do we agree, Senator Adams, that
21 there is an agency, and you referred to that
22 agency as DEC, that is responsible for
23 ensuring in this particular case that we're
24 safe?
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
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1 Adams.
2 SENATOR ADAMS: I'm sorry, can
3 you repeat that question? I didn't actually
4 understand it.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Will
6 you kindly repeat the question, Senator
7 Saland?
8 SENATOR SALAND: Do we both agree
9 that the agency, the relevant agency that is
10 responsible for ensuring that we are safe from
11 the kinds of toxic threats that you're
12 concerned about is DEC?
13 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes. Yes,
14 Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
16 Saland.
17 SENATOR SALAND: And are we
18 also -- through you, Mr. President, are we
19 also -- again, however aware we are today --
20 even more keenly aware because of the very
21 events that you mentioned, the aftermath of
22 9/11, the toxic fumes or air that were
23 breathed by firefighters, by police, by rescue
24 workers? Does that not heighten our
25 awareness?
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
2 Adams.
3 SENATOR ADAMS: Through you,
4 Mr. President, no, I don't. I believe we're
5 repeating the same mistakes that were made
6 through some of the other issues that I
7 indicated. And I believe instead of our
8 awareness being heightened, I think we're
9 following the same steps of those who made
10 mistakes in the past.
11 SENATOR SALAND: Well --
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Do you
13 continue to yield, Senator Adams?
14 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes, I do.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
16 Saland.
17 SENATOR SALAND: Through you,
18 Mr. President, let me abbreviate this without
19 trying to make this go on much more, because
20 I'm sure it's painful for many people.
21 The question I would ask you, then,
22 can we not repose confidence in DEC, the very
23 agency that you say is the watchdog, that if
24 this is as toxic of a menace as you seem to
25 feel that it is, and it's such an immediate
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1 threat to the health and well-being of all of
2 us, that DEC will not go along with this
3 proposal and will in fact say, to the
4 Governor, Governor, reject it?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
6 Adams.
7 SENATOR ADAMS: May I respond?
8 Well, it is not my position, the
9 level of toxicity of the item or the paint.
10 That's not my position.
11 When I first stood up, I questioned
12 the sponsor of the bill to help me understand
13 what exactly DEC stated. So maybe we need to
14 hear from DEC why they're extending this
15 period. Is the level of danger going to
16 decrease? I need information so I can
17 properly vote on a bill that's going to impact
18 on our environment.
19 You're stating what DEC's position
20 is. You're stating what the Governor's
21 position is and the commissioner's position
22 is. That's coming from the sponsor of the
23 bill. I didn't hear that from the Governor, I
24 didn't hear that from the commissioner.
25 There's no memo that came out from DEC that
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1 states the danger is going to change. I
2 didn't receive any of that.
3 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President,
4 just on a point of order, I never alluded to
5 DEC saying anything.
6 I'm merely saying that Senator
7 Adams professes to look to DEC, rightfully so,
8 as the watchdog. And I'm saying that if DEC
9 is the watchdog, will it not draw a line in
10 the sand and say no, this should not happen?
11 And I would think, if that in fact
12 is the case, then you have your security
13 blanket and we all can walk away feeling that
14 we've done the right thing. But, you know,
15 that certainly is for you to determine.
16 You've made your determination, and I
17 obviously am not about to change your mind.
18 But I merely thought that it was
19 important to in effect remind everybody that
20 this is not in a vacuum. This is a continuum
21 of events, and they harken back not merely to
22 cigarette smoking, they harken back not merely
23 to the events of 9/11, but a whole range of
24 events that have occurred that have certainly
25 sensitized the general public, this
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1 Legislature, and a host of others to the
2 importance of being sound with respect to
3 whatever it is that we're breathing in the
4 air.
5 And I take comfort knowing that
6 DEC, if in fact they feel that this somehow or
7 other is an imminent threat to the health and
8 well-being of the people of the State of
9 New York, regardless of whatever age they may
10 be, DEC will say no, this cannot be. And if
11 DEC says, okay, two months is fine, then it
12 can't be as imminent of a threat as some have
13 portrayed it as being.
14 Thank you, Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
16 you, Senator Saland.
17 Senator Adams.
18 SENATOR ADAMS: Mr. President --
19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
20 Adams, we have a recognized group.
21 Senator Connor, why do you rise?
22 Okay. Any other Senator wishing to
23 speak at this point in time?
24 Senator Marcellino, to close.
25 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you.
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1 With respect to notification, this
2 bill was put out on the Thursday before the
3 meeting of the Environmental Committee, which
4 met on this past Tuesday, which is our normal
5 procedure. It was advertised. Copies of the
6 bill were sent out to all members of the
7 committee. The bill passed without a negative
8 vote in the committee. Members of the
9 committee had a chance to read it, raise any
10 questions or objections that they would have
11 had. None came.
12 What I have heard today is quite
13 amazing. I really am. I didn't think
14 anything could shock Tom Duane, but I guess he
15 gets shocked today.
16 The DEC, the watchdog, the health
17 commissioner, the watchdogs, say this 60 days
18 isn't going to hurt anybody. They've said
19 that, Senator. Not Carl Marcellino, not John
20 Bonacic, not Jim Wright, not anybody else in
21 this room.
22 The bill would never have come out,
23 would never have moved forward if we didn't
24 have the approval of the commissioner and of
25 the Governor and of the Assembly. Hardly
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1 bastions of anti-environmentalism. I don't
2 think you can accuse any of those agencies as
3 being, you know, agencies that would come out
4 and do anything that they would consider to be
5 a threat to public health or a threat to the
6 State of New York or a threat to anybody.
7 It's an accommodation that has been
8 made to help some people out. That's all it
9 is. It's a very simple little bill. It
10 should not have garnered this kind of, quite
11 frankly, in some cases disingenuous
12 extrapolation of language that I've heard
13 here. We've gotten off on to Agent Orange,
14 equating these paint cans -- the walls in your
15 offices are painted with this stuff. The
16 walls of your houses are probably painted with
17 this stuff. The walls of your apartments are
18 painted with this stuff, and have been for
19 years. And will be for years again. Every
20 other state around us is selling this paint
21 now and will continue to sell it.
22 Some arbitrary decision was made, a
23 date was picked. People came and said give us
24 60 more days. Everybody agreed. All the
25 watchdogs agreed to do this. Otherwise, we
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1 wouldn't have done the bill. Simple as that.
2 Ladies and gentlemen, based on
3 that, I just don't see the need for all of
4 this. I really don't. We should vote aye on
5 this bill, move it on, get it done and move on
6 to issues of real import. I intend to vote
7 aye and urge everyone else to do the same.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
9 debate is closed.
10 The Secretary will ring the bell.
11 Read the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
15 the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
18 Stewart-Cousins, to explain her vote.
19 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: This
20 has been one of these I think debates that go
21 beyond the rhetoric and goes to policy. And
22 what I hear, as I listened to my colleagues
23 discussing this, is policy.
24 The reality is yes, the DEC is the
25 watchdog. And it takes a very long time for
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1 these watchdogs to make a decision to say that
2 something is very dangerous. So the fact that
3 DEC has said this is dangerous says something
4 to me.
5 Now, are we going to respect the
6 decision of a DEC, or are we going to allow
7 DEC or other watchdogs to decide, well, maybe
8 not this week, maybe a month from now, maybe
9 two months from now?
10 I oppose changing the date on
11 something that has been certified by the DEC
12 as dangerous. I think it's an important
13 policy discussion that we decide that when
14 something comes to our attention as dangerous,
15 it should be understood to be that. And we
16 should respect that and not second-guess and
17 third-guess and mediate.
18 I think, as a policy, our
19 Legislature has to decide whether we believe
20 DEC or any other watchdog. And at this point
21 I agree with the first decision that the
22 watchdog made. I will be voting no because I
23 think our policy is that we must respect the
24 health and safety of our community.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
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1 Stewart-Cousins in the negative.
2 Senator Schneiderman, to explain
3 his vote.
4 I would remind the members of the
5 two-minute rule, too, in explanations.
6 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
7 Mr. President. Explaining my vote.
8 I'm going to vote no on this also.
9 And I think that this debate actually reflects
10 something that we should be more concerned
11 about here. There are two issues that have
12 been addressed. The first is process, and the
13 second question, quite honestly, is prejudice.
14 Now, process, as Senator Duane I
15 think clearly laid out, the process by which
16 this bill has come forward and the lack of
17 input and the lack of information available to
18 us -- even apparently available to the bill's
19 sponsor -- I think is the kind of thing that
20 makes people cynical about us and that gets
21 this Legislature rated over and over again as
22 the most dysfunctional in the country. Let's
23 slow down and do our job carefully.
24 But the second, and I say this
25 absolutely sincerely to my colleagues on the
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1 other side of the aisle, I think sometimes we
2 have a tendency to underestimate prejudice in
3 the distribution of toxic substances in our
4 state.
5 And I think the concern of some of
6 my colleagues is that, as Senator Adams said,
7 not-for-profits who care for the least among
8 us, our children, shouldn't be once again
9 given a toxic substance to use.
10 The problems of lead paint, the
11 problems of other pollutants, the problems of
12 asthma in inner-city communities caused by the
13 location of bus depots and everything, there
14 is a problem of prejudice in our environmental
15 policies.
16 And I think that it is a tribute to
17 the people who have spoken here today that we
18 are keeping our eyes on the ball, we our doing
19 our jobs as legislators.
20 Just the fact that there is one
21 watchdog on duty does not mean that this house
22 does not have an obligation to serve as that
23 additional watchdog for which we were elected
24 and which I'm proud to count as one of my
25 functions.
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1 Even with the great DEC
2 commissioner -- although I think Senator
3 Maziarz believes he's too much under the
4 influence of corporate power, but in fact some
5 of us think he's a pretty good guy -- we're
6 trying to help him do his job better and make
7 sure that the environmentalism is not just in
8 our rural areas in this state but it extends
9 to the inner-city neighborhoods where far too
10 often toxic substances have been allowed to
11 reside years after they're banned in other
12 areas.
13 I'm voting no, Mr. President, and
14 I'm proud of the debate we've had here today.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
16 Schneiderman in the negative.
17 Senator Duane, to explain his vote.
18 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you,
19 Mr. President.
20 You know, I actually think DEC
21 probably did the best job they could in trying
22 to negotiate their way out of this. You know,
23 and I have to say that I was very proud to
24 vote to confirm this commissioner, and I think
25 he's an excellent -- he was an excellent
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1 legislator. And I think he's so far been an
2 excellent commissioner.
3 But you know what? The buck stops
4 here. This is where the final decision gets
5 made. So we are responsible.
6 You know, to make this debate
7 between health and small business is wrong.
8 We should do something to help small
9 businesses. Tax credits. There are other
10 ways out of this horrendous mess.
11 You know, again, asbestos, lead,
12 creosote. I mean, we know now these things
13 are bad. Opening up these cans apparently is
14 extremely dangerous. I really encourage my
15 colleagues to vote no on this to send a strong
16 signal that we actually want to protect kids,
17 workers who open up these cans. It's not a
18 matter of only what are we going to do about
19 small businesses, it's protecting the health
20 and safety of all of our citizens.
21 I vote no, Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
23 Duane in the negative.
24 Senator Stachowski, to explain his
25 vote.
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1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes,
2 Mr. President, I'd just like to rise in
3 support of this bill.
4 I believe that this -- this topic
5 actually came up during then Assemblyman
6 Grannis's confirmation hearing. And quite to
7 the contrary of some of the debate here, it
8 was brought up by people that represent more
9 rural areas, because of little paint stores,
10 et cetera.
11 And they asked if he would look
12 into this. And even though many of them voted
13 no, saying that they don't believe he cares
14 about those particular areas, the fact is that
15 he has looked into this.
16 DEC I don't believe would allow an
17 extender for another minute if this paint was
18 as dangerous as some people are portraying it
19 to be, or if it was that dangerous to open the
20 can. I just think they don't want this
21 product used any more in the future.
22 I think this product will be off
23 the market. I don't think they would allow
24 them to have a compromise to donate paint to
25 not-for-profits if there was a danger, because
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1 the exposure is on them. And the fact is if
2 they are, in fact, in any way opposed to this,
3 they will suggest to the Governor that he
4 vetoes the bill.
5 But my information is to the
6 contrary, that this is a compromise that has
7 been worked out with the new commissioner and
8 the experts at DEC, that the danger is not
9 there. That if there was a danger,
10 not-for-profits wouldn't be getting this
11 paint. And I just don't see that the DEC
12 would be the author of something that would be
13 a danger to the people that are serviced by
14 not-for-profits.
15 So because of those reasons, and
16 because of the fact that it's Pete Grannis's
17 first time to bat, he's risen up and found a
18 solution to a problem that was brought to his
19 attention that he did say he would look for, I
20 vote aye.
21 Thank you, Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
23 Stachowski in the affirmative.
24 Senator Liz Krueger, to explain her
25 vote.
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1 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
2 Well, I listened to the debate.
3 And I don't think that this is really that
4 much about who said the DEC commissioner one
5 day or another.
6 I've been reading the history of
7 the legislation, which actually goes back to
8 the '70s. And so I'm not sure if anyone here
9 was here then back in 1972 when apparently we
10 first started debating whether we should pull
11 this stuff off the market. And then it came
12 and went in '73, in '88, in 2003, in 2006 as
13 an emergency measure. There's been a lot of
14 discussion about this.
15 So on the one hand, I'll accept the
16 argument two months more probably, in the
17 realm of the history of this product, may not
18 make a big difference and may help some small
19 businesses.
20 And yet I find myself ultimately
21 voting no because this went through years and
22 years apparently in this house and the other,
23 and I assume with various Governors, of when
24 we were finally closing the door on this. And
25 we picked a date. And maybe it was an
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1 arbitrary date, but we picked the date.
2 And I'm a little concerned about
3 the discussion around small businesses in the
4 absence of really asking the hard questions,
5 which also is too late for this Legislature, I
6 feel, to deal with. It was manufacturers that
7 this bill applies to. It says you can no
8 longer manufacture products. Well, the
9 manufacturers knew that for a long time. And
10 yet if we have all these small businesses who
11 suddenly have large inventories of this
12 product, I suspect that manufacturers were
13 quote, unquote, dumping their inventory at
14 discounted prices to solve their economic
15 problem, basically by transferring that cost
16 and that responsibility and conceivably that
17 liability to small businesses.
18 So I think everybody has a little
19 guilt to share here. And that DEC may have
20 said, fine, two more months and we're done
21 with this. And that's fine. And I respect
22 the concern about small businesses suddenly
23 being caught in this. I respect very much the
24 concern of my colleagues who say we don't look
25 carefully about what we're doing in our
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1 communities to our children and our people.
2 And we can all name long histories of our
3 doing too little, too late on protecting our
4 environment. I suppose you could even argue
5 that's a theme of our country right now in
6 this world, too little, too late on our
7 environment. So --
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
9 Krueger, how do you vote?
10 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I will vote
11 no. And --
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
13 Krueger, we would like to respect the rules of
14 the house today for explanations. You're
15 beyond the two minutes.
16 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Certainly.
17 Thank you, Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
19 Liz Krueger in the negative.
20 Senator Hassell-Thompson, to
21 explain her vote.
22 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:
23 Senator Krueger has articulated very clearly
24 the major concern that I have. I just will
25 say that I will be voting no as well.
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1 Thank you, Mr. President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
3 Hassell-Thompson in the negative.
4 Senator Adams.
5 SENATOR PARKER: No, Senator
6 Parker. We look alike.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
8 Parker. Excuse me, Senator Adams.
9 Senator Parker, to explain his
10 vote.
11 SENATOR PARKER: Mr. President, I
12 rise to vote no. I know everybody is saying
13 well, this is not as dangerous as they
14 suspect. Well, if it wasn't that dangerous,
15 why are we taking it off the market?
16 When we stopped smoking indoors in
17 this state, we were all very proud of that. I
18 think we all continue to be very proud of it.
19 We didn't say, oh, well, there are some people
20 who haven't quit smoking yet so let's continue
21 to, you know, allow people to smoke. We
22 didn't say that there are some people who, you
23 know, still haven't kicked the habit, we have
24 small businesses who are still selling
25 cigarettes and we don't want to hurt their
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1 profits, so let's continue to let people smoke
2 indoors and endanger all of us.
3 So to rise now and to say that this
4 can't be more of a danger in two more months,
5 and it will be two more months -- and I don't
6 believe in the slippery slope that we're
7 creating here: two months here and then in
8 two more months we'll be back asking for two
9 more months and two more months after that.
10 And if people don't think that the
11 government does bad things, I want people to
12 go back and look at the U.S. experiment on
13 African-Americans at a college called
14 Tuskegee. And the government then knowingly
15 let a group of men suffer with syphilis for
16 over five years.
17 So, you know, when folks are
18 talking about well, you know, we wouldn't do
19 this and agencies would never endanger the
20 lives of human beings -- and certainly when I
21 hear my colleagues talking about, you know,
22 we're going to take paint that we have banned,
23 we know is dangerous, and we're going to put
24 it into affordable housing, who lives in
25 affordable housing? Sounds like the Tuskegee
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1 experiment to me.
2 So I'm voting no, and I urge my
3 colleagues to vote no as well.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
5 Parker in the negative.
6 Senator Perkins.
7 SENATOR PERKINS: Thank you very
8 much.
9 I just want to again raise my
10 concerns about something that had no business
11 being on the market -- poisoning or somehow or
12 other being a problem from a health point of
13 view -- being taken off the market, and now we
14 are fighting to keep it on the market for
15 however long the commissioner says we should.
16 I think this is a dangerous
17 precedent for us to be doing this. Some
18 people argue that we're the only state in the
19 country that seems to have a problem with
20 this. That's not the measure to determine
21 whether or not something is healthy or
22 unhealthy.
23 I know for years and years we
24 talked about lead paint poisoning, and
25 businesspeople argued vigorously in every way
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1 that they could to keep lead paint on the
2 market, despite the fact that the health
3 experts, the environmentalists and everyone
4 else was telling us that these children were
5 being poisoned, crippled for life, unable to
6 get an education.
7 So I think we have to be very
8 careful with that kind of history when we
9 start delaying taking off the market something
10 that has been determined to be unhealthy. And
11 we have to watch out that when we use
12 business, especially small-business arguments
13 for the purpose of delaying something in that
14 respect.
15 And I think it's also, as was
16 pointed out more than once, weird that we
17 would be asking that this stuff be given to
18 not-for-profits. If it's not good, it's not
19 good. Period. And I think that this may be
20 another reason for us to have hearings, to
21 have -- this is a subject that we could have
22 called upon all the experts, the
23 environmentalists, including the commissioner
24 and others, so that there could be a clear
25 understanding about how dangerous this really
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1 is.
2 And so clearly I'm opposed to this
3 and very concerned that our commissioner, who
4 I supported, who I continue to support, made
5 such a decision allegedly with the endorsement
6 also of the Governor, which I'm concerned that
7 he would be a party to this. I don't care
8 who's the Governor or who's the commissioner.
9 To support something that has been determined
10 to be unhealthy to me is wrong. So I'm
11 opposing this legislation.
12 Thank you so much.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
14 Perkins in the negative.
15 Senator Klein, to explain his vote.
16 SENATOR KLEIN: Thank you,
17 Mr. President.
18 I had the honor of serving for
19 10 years in the Assembly with now Commissioner
20 Pete Grannis. And you want to know something?
21 Pete Grannis would have been the first person
22 to get up today and question this information
23 and find out why we're voting on this
24 legislation today.
25 I don't think this is a litmus test
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1 on whether or not we're helping small
2 business. Because by not having the
3 information that we need, we may be hurting
4 business. As I mentioned I think earlier, are
5 we requiring that these businesses notify
6 whoever they're giving this product to, a
7 not-for-profit, that this potentially may be
8 dangerous? There's a whole host of questions
9 that we don't have answered.
10 And I thank all of my colleagues --
11 Senator Adams, in raising his concerns about
12 the effects of people down at Ground Zero at
13 9/11; Senator Perkins, who is truly one of the
14 experts on the dangers of lead paint
15 poisoning. I think it's incumbent on us to
16 question these things. And I don't think
17 anyone here doesn't want to help small
18 business. But I think we do have a right to
19 know this information.
20 I think this goes to the process of
21 this chamber. In all this debate we've had
22 here today, no one has yet to produce a letter
23 explaining what are the dangers here, either
24 through the DEC commissioner or anyone else.
25 I vote no, Mr. President.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
2 Klein in the negative.
3 The clerk will announce the
4 results.
5 Senator Volker.
6 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President,
7 to explain my vote.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
9 Volker, to explain his vote.
10 SENATOR VOLKER: I hesitate to do
11 this. I realize that this is really more of a
12 political debate.
13 Senator Perkins, can I just tell
14 you something about lead paint? Lead paint's
15 been banned since 1984. I don't remember the
16 business community ever objecting. The reason
17 we couldn't do statewide legislation basically
18 is because some trial lawyers in New York City
19 refused to allow a decline -- what they wanted
20 was class actions so you could sue every
21 housing group in New York City.
22 We did do some lead paint upgrades,
23 dramatically. I did it. Arthur O. Eve and I
24 worked very hard on lead paint. I can tell
25 you there were outside interests that kept us
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1 from doing it. It wasn't business, because
2 they had realized long before that it was a
3 problem.
4 The problem here is this isn't
5 really the DEC that caused this to happen, it
6 was the EPA. The EPA, in their scattershot
7 information, said we have to come up with some
8 sort of a plan. One of the things is they
9 said, Well, there's a couple of substances in
10 this paint that could be dangerous. Could be.
11 They have no idea. And by itself, it's not,
12 by the way. But it could be.
13 So the DEC said all right, maybe
14 we'd better get rid of this stuff and they can
15 get that stuff out of it and change it.
16 That's what this is all about. Nobody knows
17 whether this is really dangerous or not or
18 whatever it is.
19 But what's really happening here --
20 and I understand this is sort of the political
21 season. The truth is, this is a good bill
22 because -- and if you got everybody in, they
23 would say we don't know if there's anything
24 wrong with it. But ultimately we should
25 probably take if off because it might,
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1 sometime later on, have a problem.
2 So I vote aye.
3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
5 Volker in the affirmative.
6 Senator Skelos, to explain his
7 vote.
8 SENATOR SKELOS: If I could
9 explain my vote.
10 Listening to the debate, and I
11 guess I could say some of the comments
12 against, it would be like watching paint dry.
13 But I'm not going to do that.
14 But I'm going to support the bill.
15 And certainly I'm not going to question those
16 who are voting against it, although I do
17 believe it's anti-small business. And you
18 have the right to express your views and your
19 health concerns.
20 I'm going to take a little
21 different approach in terms of priorities.
22 Priorities, when we talk about healthcare, I'm
23 just curious where the members of the Minority
24 were when Governor Spitzer wanted to cut a
25 billion dollars out of healthcare, which would
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1 have devastated our hospitals, devastated our
2 health delivery system, and not one word was
3 said by many of the members who are now
4 standing up in complete disbelief that
5 Governor Spitzer would be supporting this type
6 of legislation and that would be poisoning
7 their kids.
8 We discussed the death penalty
9 yesterday, and there were many comments made.
10 And, Senator Adams, I don't believe as a
11 former policeman you got up and spoke about --
12 you voted against it, but you didn't speak
13 about why you thought it wouldn't protect
14 policemen. And I think that's an appropriate
15 place where we should have a lengthy
16 discussion, and certainly your expertise as a
17 policeman.
18 But again, I go back to the
19 healthcare issue. Where were you? Sitting
20 there quietly when Governor Spitzer gave you
21 orders to vote no.
22 So I think there's progress today.
23 We're starting to see some spine development
24 with many of the members of the Minority who
25 are now willing to say to Governor Spitzer:
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1 If you're wrong, we're going to vote against
2 you.
3 I beg your pardon? Oh, judges'
4 raises, too.
5 So I congratulate you on some of
6 the spine that is being shown today, and I
7 hope that you will continue to do it during
8 the rest of the legislative process.
9 Mr. President, I vote aye.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
11 Skelos in the affirmative.
12 Announce the results.
13 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
14 the negative on Calendar Number 969 are
15 Senators Adams, Dilan, Duane, Gonzalez,
16 Hassell-Thompson, Huntley, Klein, L. Krueger,
17 Parker, Perkins, Sampson, Savino,
18 Schneiderman, Serrano, Stewart-Cousins.
19 Absent from voting: Senator C.
20 Kruger.
21 Ayes, 44. Nays, 15.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
23 bill is passed.
24 Senator Skelos, that completes the
25 reading of the controversial calendar.
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1 SENATOR SKELOS: Please recognize
2 Senator Robach.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
4 Robach.
5 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes,
6 Mr. President. On page 51 I offer the
7 following amendments to Calendar Number 781,
8 Senate Print Number 5287, and ask that the
9 said bill retain its place on the Third
10 Reading Calendar.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
12 amendments are received and adopted, and the
13 bill will retain its place on the Third
14 Reading Calendar.
15 Senator Skelos.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President,
17 is there any further business to come before
18 the Senate?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: There
20 is no further business, Senator Skelos.
21 SENATOR SKELOS: There being
22 none, I move we stand adjourned until Monday,
23 May 21st, at 3:00 p.m., intervening days being
24 legislative days.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: At the
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1 request of Senator Skelos, I ask for order in
2 the chamber, that we may have a moment of
3 silence in memory of Yolanda Denise King, the
4 daughter of the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther
5 King, Jr. and Coretta Scott King, who passed
6 away today.
7 (Whereupon, the assemblage
8 respected a moment of silence.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: On
10 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
11 Monday, May 21st, at 3:00 p.m., intervening
12 days being legislative days.
13 (Whereupon, at 12:47 p.m., the
14 Senate adjourned.)
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