Regular Session - May 21, 2007

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         1                 NEW YORK STATE SENATE

         2

         3

         4                THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

         5

         6

         7

         8

         9                   ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                     May 21, 2007

        11                       3:08 p.m.

        12

        13

        14                    REGULAR SESSION

        15

        16

        17

        18  LT. GOVERNOR DAVID A. PATERSON, President

        19  STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary

        20

        21

        22

        23

        24

        25


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         1                 P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

         3       Senate will come to order.

         4                  I ask everyone present to rise and

         5       recite with me the Pledge of Allegiance.

         6                  (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

         7       the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

         9       invocation today will be given by the Reverend

        10       Peter G. Young, Mother Theresa Community in

        11       Albany.

        12                  Father.

        13                  REVEREND YOUNG:    Thank you,

        14       Senator.

        15                  Dear God, we are proud to welcome

        16       Michael Brown, speaker of the Ontario

        17       Assembly, to the Senate chamber.

        18                  And we know that You, ever living

        19       God, as we gather here in this Senate chamber

        20       as members representing our constituents to

        21       provide leadership for all our New York State

        22       citizens, that You will guide us with Your

        23       spirit and enlighten our minds and guide our

        24       actions, that we may be united in love and

        25       bring to fulfillment the work of government


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         1       for the greater honor and glory of God and of

         2       our citizens.

         3                  Amen.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Reading

         5       of the Journal.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

         7       Sunday, May 20, the Senate met pursuant to

         8       adjournment.  The Journal of Saturday, May 19,

         9       was read and approved.  On motion, Senate

        10       adjourned.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Without

        12       objection, the Journal stands approved as

        13       read.

        14                  Presentation of petitions.

        15                  Messages from the Assembly.

        16                  Messages from the Governor.

        17                  Reports of standing committees.

        18                  Reports of select committees.

        19                  Communications and reports from

        20       state officers.

        21                  Motions and resolutions.

        22                  Senator Nozzolio.

        23                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Mr. President,

        24       I have five resolutions at the desk.  I ask

        25       that their titles be read and that I have the


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         1       opportunity to speak on those resolutions

         2       collectively.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

         4       Secretary will read.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

         6       Nozzolio, Legislative Resolution Number 2351,

         7       commending Kyle Dake upon the occasion of

         8       capturing the 2007 New York State Wrestling

         9       Championship.

        10                  By Senator Nozzolio, Legislative

        11       Resolution Number 2354, commending Alex

        12       Ekstrom upon the occasion of capturing the

        13       2007 New York State Wrestling Championship.

        14                  By Senator Nozzolio, Legislative

        15       Resolution Number 1744, commending Ben Hall of

        16       Victor High School upon the occasion of

        17       winning the 2007 Section 5 New York State

        18       Track and Field Championship in the

        19       3,200-Meter Run.

        20                  By Senator Nozzolio, Legislative

        21       Resolution Number 2355, commending Tyler

        22       Marlow upon the occasion of capturing the 2007

        23       New York State Wrestling Championship.

        24                  And by Senator Nozzolio,

        25       Legislative Resolution Number 2353,


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         1       congratulating Williamson High School

         2       student-athlete Brian Miller upon the occasion

         3       of his designation as the New York State

         4       Indoor Track Champion.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Senator

         6       Nozzolio, on the resolutions.

         7                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you,

         8       Mr. President.

         9                  Mr. President and my colleagues, I

        10       rise with great honor to join in the

        11       recognition of five outstanding young

        12       individuals from the areas that I represent in

        13       New York State that are here in our State

        14       Capitol to be recognized as New York State

        15       athletic champions.

        16                  Mr. President and my colleagues,

        17       they are recognized as champions in both

        18       athletic competition as well as in the

        19       classroom.  Kyle Dake, Alex Ekstrom, Ben Hall,

        20       Tyler Marlow, and Brian Miller have shown time

        21       and again that they are superb athletes, and

        22       I'd like to just briefly chronicle some of

        23       their accomplishments.

        24                  In winning state championships,

        25       Kyle Dake, first and foremost, took first


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         1       place in the 112-pound class in the 2007

         2       New York State High School Wrestling

         3       Championships.  He became the very first from

         4       Lansing High School as a wrestler to become

         5       state champion.  The efforts of his coach,

         6       Doug Dake, and that his commitment are

         7       excellence are second to none.

         8                  I also should note that Kyle

         9       achieved, number one, the champion of the U.S.

        10       Coaches National High School Competition.

        11       Those indoor nationals were -- in effect,

        12       those Coaches Association nationals placed him

        13       number one of all wrestlers in the United

        14       States.

        15                  Congratulations to Kyle and

        16       congratulations to him as an exemplary

        17       representative of his school, community, and

        18       state.

        19                  Alex Ekstrom is a state champion,

        20       125-pound weight class New York State

        21       wrestling champion.  He is the first

        22       Palmyra-Macedon High School Red Raider to

        23       become a two-time Section 5 Class BBBB state

        24       wrestling champion and set a new record of 48

        25       wins and one loss in the 2007 season.


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         1                  That he too performed as our state

         2       representative in his weight class to the U.S.

         3       Coaches Association competition, and performed

         4       extremely well.

         5                  Ben Hall is an outstanding young

         6       man and a tremendous athlete.  He placed first

         7       in the New York State Indoor Track and Field

         8       Championships held this last winter.  That he

         9       was fourth in his final lap of his

        10       championship run, but through determination,

        11       grit and hard work he ended up winning the

        12       race and running the fastest last lap.

        13                  That he also competed in the

        14       Maryland Nike Indoor National Championships,

        15       representing our region, our state, and did

        16       extremely well.

        17                  Ben will be graduating in a few

        18       weeks and will attend Georgetown University.

        19                  Tyler Marlow was the 103-pound

        20       New York State wrestling champion.  A

        21       sophomore at Palmyra-Macedon, that he was

        22       exemplary in his dedication and became

        23       New York State Champion in his weight class.

        24                  And lastly, Brian Miller, that he

        25       also, in running the last leg of the Section V


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         1       relay team, ran that in exemplary time.  His

         2       coach, Coach Carl Comstock, is extremely proud

         3       of his young athlete, who became the first

         4       Williamson athlete ever to be named an overall

         5       state champion.

         6                  Mr. President, please join with me

         7       in welcoming these state champions to the

         8       State Capitol and to our Senate chamber.

         9                  I'd also like to mention some

        10       family, friends, coaches and mentors who are

        11       here with these fine athletes.

        12                  Kyle Dake is accompanied by his

        13       father and coach, Doug, and mother, Jodi Dake,

        14       who's clerk treasurer of the Village of

        15       Lansing.

        16                  Alex Ekstrom is accompanied by his

        17       mom and dad, Bob and Lynn, as well as Coach

        18       Brian Quick and the athletic director from

        19       Pal-Mac, Fred Ciaburri.

        20                  Ben Hall is accompanied by his mom

        21       and dad, Donna and Jeff Hall; his grandma from

        22       Waterloo, New York, Diana Freezee; and coach

        23       and mentor of Victor athletes, Belinda

        24       O'Brien.

        25                  Tyler Marlow is accompanied by Pam


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         1       and Ken VanKoevering, who are his parents; his

         2       coach, Brian Quick; and Athletic Director Fred

         3       Ciaburri.

         4                  And lastly, Brian Miller is here

         5       with his mom, Debbie; Darryl Boyce, his

         6       grandfather; and Carl Comstock, his coach.

         7                  Mr. President, these are not just

         8       exemplary athletes, these are fine young men,

         9       leaders who are molded by our New York State

        10       school system to be just that, leaders of

        11       tomorrow.  And as such, Mr. President, I thank

        12       you for welcoming them to this historic Senate

        13       chamber and congratulating them on being

        14       genuine state champions.

        15                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Thank

        17       you, Senator Nozzolio.

        18                  The question is on the resolutions.

        19       All those in favor signify by saying aye.

        20                  (Response of "Aye.")

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:

        22       Opposed, nay.

        23                  (No response.)

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

        25       resolutions are adopted.


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         1                  On behalf of Senator Nozzolio and

         2       all of the members of the New York State

         3       Senate, to the athletes and their family

         4       members, we welcome you to the Capitol, we

         5       extend our congratulations and our

         6       recognition.  And by virtue of the adoption of

         7       these resolutions, you are now part of the

         8       history of the State of New York.

         9                  Enjoy your stay here in the

        10       Capitol.  Welcome.

        11                  (Applause.)

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Senator

        13       Libous.

        14                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Mr. President,

        15       would you recognize Senator Marcellino for the

        16       purpose of an introduction, please.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Senator

        18       Marcellino.

        19                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,

        20       Senator Libous.

        21                  Mr. President, it is my high honor

        22       to introduce to the members of this body

        23       Michael A. Brown, who is the speaker of the

        24       Legislative Assembly of Ontario, and his wife,

        25       Lynn.  They're visiting us today, taking a


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         1       tour.  They're visiting with the Council of

         2       State Governments.

         3                  And Michael understands what we do.

         4       He is one who has had the problem, if you

         5       will, or pleasure -- it depends upon the day,

         6       I'm sure -- of leading a legislative body in

         7       their endeavors to do the right thing for

         8       their constituents.

         9                  He's also accompanied by Karyn

        10       Leonard, the director of interparliamentary

        11       and public relations of the Legislative

        12       Assembly of Ontario, and her husband, Ken.

        13                  So I would ask that we give him and

        14       them the appropriate award and acknowledgment

        15       from the New York State Senate.

        16                  (Applause.)

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Thank

        18       you, Senator Marcellino.

        19                  Mr. Brown, welcome.  We're very

        20       glad to have you join us here today.  And as a

        21       colleague, I'm sure you can appreciate the

        22       nature of these deliberations.  As your

        23       neighbor to the south in the North Country,

        24       welcome again to the Capitol.

        25                  Senator Libous.


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         1                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you,

         2       Mr. President.  If we could go back to

         3       resolutions, please, there's a resolution by

         4       Senator Kruger.  And could its title be read

         5       only.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

         7       Secretary will read.

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator C.

         9       Kruger, Legislative Resolution Number 2288,

        10       commending Yaakov and Rivka Kornreich upon the

        11       occasion of their designation by Young Israel

        12       of Avenue J as the Guests of Honor at its 28th

        13       Annual Dinner on May 20, 2007.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    This

        15       resolution was previously adopted by the

        16       Senate on May 16th.

        17                  Senator Libous.

        18                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you,

        19       Mr. President.  I believe there is a

        20       Resolution Number 2384 by Senator Perkins.

        21       Could it be please read in its entirety.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

        23       Secretary will read the resolution.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

        25       Perkins, Legislative Resolution Number 2384,


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         1       mourning the death of Yolanda Denise King.

         2                  "WHEREAS, It is the practice of

         3       this Legislative Body to record the passing of

         4       certain individuals, recognizing them for

         5       their valued contributions to their community,

         6       their profession, and their heritage; and

         7                  "WHEREAS, Attendant to such concern

         8       and fully in accord with its long-standing

         9       traditions, it is the intent of this

        10       Legislative Body to mourn the death of Yolanda

        11       Denise King, eldest child of Dr. Martin Luther

        12       King, Jr., and Coretta Scott King, in Santa

        13       Monica, California, on May 15, 2007, at the

        14       age of 51; and

        15                  "WHEREAS, Yolanda Denise King, who

        16       pursued her father's dream of racial harmony

        17       through drama and motivational speaking, was

        18       an actress, author, producer and advocate for

        19       peace and nonviolence, who was known and loved

        20       for her motivational and inspirational

        21       contributions to society; and

        22                  "WHEREAS, Yolanda Denise King,

        23       'Yoki' to her family, was born on November 17,

        24       1955, in Montgomery, Alabama, where her father

        25       was then preaching.  Considered by many to be


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         1       the first daughter of the civil rights

         2       movement, she lived with and through much of

         3       the turbulence and trauma of the struggle; and

         4                  "WHEREAS, She was just two weeks

         5       old when Rosa Parks refused to give up her

         6       seat on a bus, leading to the Montgomery bus

         7       boycott spearheaded by her father.  On

         8       January 30, 1956, when she was 10 weeks old,

         9       the King family home was bombed when her

        10       father attended a boycott rally.  Fortunately,

        11       neither she nor her mother was injured when

        12       the device exploded on the front porch.  And

        13       she was only 12 years old when her father was

        14       assassinated in Memphis, Tennessee, in 1968;

        15       and

        16                  "WHEREAS, It was 7-year-old Yolanda

        17       and her brothers and sister her father had in

        18       mind when, in 1963, he spoke the words now

        19       familiar to the entire world:  'I have a dream

        20       that my four little children will one day live

        21       in a nation where they will not be judged by

        22       the color of their skin but by the content of

        23       their character'; and

        24                  "WHEREAS, Yolanda King was a 1976

        25       graduate of Smith College in Northampton,


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         1       Massachusetts, where she majored in theater

         2       and Afro-American studies.  She also earned a

         3       master's degree in theater from New York

         4       University and, in 2002, received an honorary

         5       Doctor of Humane Letters degree from Marywood

         6       University; and

         7                  "WHEREAS, A warm and gentle person,

         8       Yolanda King was a torchbearer for her parents

         9       and a committed activist member in her own

        10       right.  She never wavered from her own

        11       lifelong commitment to nonviolent social

        12       change and justice for all and found her own

        13       way of expressing that commitment through

        14       drama; and

        15                  "WHEREAS, Yolanda King lived in

        16       California.  She was a talented actress,

        17       founded and ran her own production company,

        18       Higher Ground productions, and appeared in

        19       numerous films and television productions,

        20       including 'Ghosts of Mississippi,' 'Odessa,'

        21       'Death of a Prophet,' 'Hopscotch,' 'JAG,' and

        22       'Any Day Now.'  She also played Rosa Parks in

        23       the miniseries 'King,' recently released on

        24       DVD, and was the associate producer of the

        25       1984 television production 'A Celebration of


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         1       Life:  A Tribute to Martin Luther King, Jr.'

         2       and

         3                  "WHEREAS, She was a member of the

         4       board of directors of the Martin Luther King

         5       Jr. Center for Nonviolent Social Change, the

         6       official national memorial to her father, and

         7       was a founding director of the King Center's

         8       Cultural Affairs Program.  She served on the

         9       Partnership Council of Habitat for Humanity,

        10       was a member of the Southern Christian

        11       Leadership Conference, a sponsor of the

        12       Women's International League for Peace and

        13       Freedom, and held a lifetime membership in the

        14       NAACP; and

        15                  "WHEREAS, Yolanda King's death came

        16       less than a year and a half after her mother,

        17       Coretta Scott King, died in January 2006 after

        18       battling ovarian cancer and the effects of a

        19       stroke, a struggle which prompted Yolanda to

        20       work with the American Heart Association to

        21       raise awareness about strokes, especially

        22       among African-Americans; and

        23                  "WHEREAS, During this year's

        24       observance of Martin Luther King Day in

        25       January 2007, the first since her mother's


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         1       death, she proudly delivered a tribute to her

         2       parents, performing a series of solo skits at

         3       her father's Ebenezer Baptist Church in

         4       Atlanta, including, among others, a recounting

         5       of a girl's first ride on a desegregated bus

         6       and of a college student's recollection of the

         7       1963 campaign to desegregate Birmingham; and

         8                  "WHEREAS, She also urged the

         9       audience to be a force for peace and love, to

        10       remember that America has not yet achieved

        11       peace and racial equality, and to use the King

        12       holiday each year to examine their own beliefs

        13       about prejudice; and

        14                  "WHEREAS, Yolanda King is survived

        15       by her brothers, Martin Luther King III and

        16       Dexter Scott King, and her sister, the

        17       Reverend Bernice Albertine King, and many

        18       friends and admirers; and

        19                  "WHEREAS, Yolanda King's life is a

        20       reflection of her commitment to social change

        21       and justice and equality for all, and her many

        22       contributions will surely endure as an

        23       inspiration to others; now, therefore, be it

        24                  "RESOLVED, That this Legislative

        25       Body pause in its deliberations to honor the


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         1       memory of Yolanda Denise King and to celebrate

         2       her life, and be it further

         3                  "RESOLVED, That copies of this

         4       resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

         5       to the family of Yolanda Denise King, with the

         6       deepest condolences of this Legislative Body."

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Senator

         8       Perkins, on the resolution.

         9                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Thank you very

        10       much, Mr. President.  I want to thank you and

        11       the leadership for having read this resolution

        12       in its entirety.

        13                  They say that we are all products

        14       of our times, and no one could exemplify that

        15       more than Yolanda, who has lived her life in

        16       quite an exemplary role, particularly in terms

        17       of representing the legacy of not just her

        18       father but also of her mother, both of whom

        19       were obviously leaders in the civil rights

        20       movement and the movement to move this country

        21       to higher ground.

        22                  So it was a sad moment when she

        23       passed, and at such a young age.  But then it

        24       is not how long we live, but how well we live.

        25       And she lived a life that I think both her


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         1       mother and father and all of us, really, are

         2       proud of, as an American, as someone who

         3       understood not only the civil rights movement

         4       but her need to make a contribution to it.

         5                  So those young people who join us

         6       here today, they have had the opportunity to

         7       be a part of this Senate as it recognizes one

         8       of the great moments in this country's history

         9       through the legacy that she represented in

        10       terms of the civil rights movement.

        11                  And so thank you very much.  And

        12       thank you for the honor of having been able to

        13       recognize her here today.  Thank you.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Thank

        15       you, Senator Perkins.

        16                  The question is on the resolution.

        17       All in favor signify by saying aye.

        18                  (Response of "Aye.")

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:

        20       Opposed, nay.

        21                  (No response.)

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

        23       resolution is adopted.

        24                  Senator Libous.

        25                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Mr. President,


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         1       would you please recognize Senator Farley.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Senator

         3       Farley.

         4                  SENATOR FARLEY:    I have some very

         5       exciting things, some motions.

         6                  On behalf of Senator Trunzo,

         7       Mr. President, I move that the following bill

         8       be discharged from its respective committee

         9       and be recommitted with instructions to strike

        10       the enacting clause.  That's Senate Print

        11       5776.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    So

        13       ordered.

        14                  SENATOR FARLEY:    Mr. President, I

        15       offer amendments to the following bills:

        16                  Senator LaValle, page 37, Calendar

        17       409, Senate Print 3305;

        18                  Senator Larkin, page 46, Calendar

        19       606, Senate Print 1047;

        20                  Senator Skelos, on page 47,

        21       Calendar Number 640, Senate Print 435;

        22                  Senator DeFrancisco, on page 48,

        23       Calendar Number 661, Senate Print 39;

        24                  Also for Senator Trunzo, on

        25       page 56, Calendar Number 799, Senate Print


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         1       2694;

         2                  For Senator Fuschillo, on page 60,

         3       Calendar Number 870, Senate Print 5543;

         4                  And last, for Senator Maziarz, on

         5       page 29, Calendar Number 121, Senate Print

         6       948.

         7                  Mr. President, I ask that these

         8       bills retain their place on the Third Reading

         9       Calendar.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

        11       amendments are received and adopted, and the

        12       bills will retain their place on the Third

        13       Reading Calendar.

        14                  Senator Libous.

        15                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Mr. President,

        16       if we could attend to the noncontroversial

        17       calendar, please.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

        19       Secretary will read the noncontroversial

        20       calendar.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        22       484, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 4080, an

        23       act to amend Chapter 413 of the Laws of 2003

        24       amending the Labor Law.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Read


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         1       the last section.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Call

         5       the roll.

         6                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

         9       bill is passed.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        11       562, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 4167, an

        12       act to repeal paragraph (e) of subdivision 4

        13       of Section 209 of the Civil Service Law.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Read

        15       the last section.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Call

        19       the roll.

        20                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

        23       bill is passed.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        25       710, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 2977, an


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         1       act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

         2       longevity in title.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Read

         4       the last section.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Call

         8       the roll.

         9                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

        12       bill is passed.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        14       782, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 5295, an

        15       act to amend the Civil Service Law, in

        16       relation to negotiability.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Read

        18       the last section.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Call

        22       the roll.

        23                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The


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         1       bill is passed.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         3       783, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5406, an

         4       act to amend the Retirement and Social

         5       Security Law, in relation to providing prior

         6       police service credit.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Read

         8       the last section.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Call

        12       the roll.

        13                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

        16       bill is passed.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        18       841, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

        19       4876, an act to amend the Estates, Powers and

        20       Trusts Law, in relation to an order for the

        21       purposes of conducting paternity testing.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Read

        23       the last section.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        25       act shall take effect immediately.


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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Call

         2       the roll.

         3                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.  Nays,

         5       1.  Senator Maltese recorded in the negative.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

         7       bill is passed.

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         9       882, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 501, an

        10       act to amend the County Law, in relation to

        11       wireless communications surcharges.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    There

        13       is a local fiscal impact note at the desk.

        14                  Read the last section.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Call

        18       the roll.

        19                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

        22       bill is passed.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        24       887, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print

        25       2709, an act to amend the Town Law and the


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         1       Village Law, in relation to the office of town

         2       or village justice.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Read

         4       the last section.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Call

         8       the roll.

         9                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

        12       bill is passed.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        14       890, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 3609, an

        15       act to authorize the City of North Tonawanda.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    There

        17       is a home-rule message at the desk.

        18                  Read the last section.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Call

        22       the roll.

        23                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The


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         1       bill is passed.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         3       894, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4489, an

         4       act to authorize the Hebrew Academy of the

         5       Five Towns and Rockaway to file an

         6       application.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Read

         8       the last section.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Call

        12       the roll.

        13                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 53.  Nays,

        15       1.  Senator Bonacic recorded in the negative.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        19       902, by Senator Little, Senate Print 5368, an

        20       act to amend the General Municipal Law, in

        21       relation to posting copies.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Read

        23       the last section.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        25       act shall take effect immediately.


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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Call

         2       the roll.

         3                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

         6       bill is passed.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         8       904, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 5504,

         9       an act to authorize Pederson-Krag Center of

        10       New York to file an application for exemption.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Read

        12       the last section.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Call

        16       the roll.

        17                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 51.  Nays,

        19       3.  Senators Bonacic, Rath and Robach recorded

        20       in the negative.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

        22       bill is passed.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        24       907, by Senator Winner, Senate Print 1721, an

        25       act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control


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         1       Law and the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in

         2       relation to the imposition of driver's license

         3       suspensions.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Read

         5       the last section.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

         7       act shall take effect on the first of

         8       November.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Call

        10       the roll.

        11                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 52.  Nays,

        13       2.  Senators Duane and Montgomery recorded in

        14       the negative.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

        16       bill is passed.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        18       910, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 3974, an

        19       act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, in

        20       relation to the surrogate decision-making

        21       program.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Read

        23       the last section.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

        25       act shall take effect immediately.


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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Call

         2       the roll.

         3                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

         6       bill is passed.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         8       919, by Senator Flanagan --

         9                  SENATOR DUANE:    Lay it aside,

        10       please.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Lay it

        12       aside.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        14       920, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 3538, an

        15       act to amend Chapter 154 of the Laws of 1921,

        16       relating to the Port Authority of New York and

        17       New Jersey.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Read

        19       the last section.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect upon enactment into law

        22       by the State of New Jersey.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Call

        24       the roll.

        25                  (The Secretary called the roll.)


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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

         3       bill is passed.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         5       923, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 4663, an

         6       act to amend the Not-for-Profit Corporation

         7       Law, in relation to authorization.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Read

         9       the last section.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Call

        13       the roll.

        14                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        19       924, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 4802,

        20       an act to amend Chapter 672 of the Laws of

        21       1993, amending the Public Authorities Law.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Read

        23       the last section.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        25       act shall take effect immediately.


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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Call

         2       the roll.

         3                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

         6       bill is passed.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         8       931, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3905, an

         9       act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

        10       meetings of councils of state-operated

        11       institutions.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Read

        13       the last section.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    Call

        17       the roll.

        18                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 54.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    The

        21       bill is passed.

        22                  Senator Libous, that completes the

        23       reading of the noncontroversial calendar.

        24                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you,

        25       Mr. President.


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         1                  If we could call a Rules Committee

         2       meeting in Room 332 and have the Senate stand

         3       temporarily at ease.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:    There

         5       will be an immediate meeting of the Rules

         6       Committee in the Majority Conference Room.

         7                  The Senate will stand at ease.

         8                  (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

         9       ease at 3:40 p.m.)

        10                  (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

        11       at 3:50 p.m.)

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    The

        13       Senate will come to order.

        14                  Senator Libous.

        15                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Mr. President,

        16       can we return to reports of standing

        17       committees.

        18                  I believe there's a Rules report at

        19       the desk that needs to be read at this time.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    The

        21       Secretary will read the report of the Rules

        22       Committee.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bruno,

        24       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

        25       following bills:


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         1                  Senate Print 5848, by Senator

         2       Skelos, an act to amend the Executive Law;

         3                  5888, by Senator Lanza, an act to

         4       amend the Executive Law;

         5                  5892, by Senator Saland, an act to

         6       amend the Education Law;

         7                  And Senate Print 5902, by Senator

         8       Padavan, an act to amend the Penal Law and

         9       others.

        10                  All bills ordered direct to third

        11       reading.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        13       Libous.

        14                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Mr. President,

        15       could we go back to the noncontroversial

        16       calendar, I believe Calendar Number 919, by

        17       Senator Flanagan, and take it up at this time.

        18                  Mr. President, could I move to

        19       accept the report of the Rules Committee

        20       before we do that.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Most

        22       certainly.

        23                  We have a motion to accept the

        24       report of the Rules Committee.  All in favor

        25       signify by saying aye.


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         1                  (Response of "Aye.")

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:

         3       Opposed, nay.

         4                  (No response.)

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    The

         6       Rules Committee report is accepted.

         7                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Mr. President,

         8       919 is on the controversial calendar.  So

         9       could you please ring the bell.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    The

        11       Secretary will ring the bell for Calendar

        12       Number 919.

        13                  And the Secretary will read.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        15       919, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 3491A,

        16       an act to amend the Public Authorities Law and

        17       others.

        18                  SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation,

        19       please.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        21       Flanagan, for an explanation.

        22                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes,

        23       Mr. President.  Thank you.

        24                  This bill, I would respectfully

        25       offer, is in addition to the good work that


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         1       was done in 2005 by Senator Leibell,

         2       Assemblyman Brodsky and the Legislature in

         3       conjunction with Governor Pataki.  We take

         4       some of those standards, some of those

         5       principles, and frankly I think we move them

         6       forward.

         7                  And I would offer a couple of

         8       observations and speak to several components

         9       within the bill that I think are important for

        10       the Senate's consideration.

        11                  Probably the most notable portion

        12       of this bill is the creation of an independent

        13       authority budget office.  We changed the

        14       statute from 2005 so we make it very clear

        15       that the authority budget office will now be

        16       separate and distinct, that it will not be

        17       under the control and jurisdiction of the

        18       Executive department, so frankly it can be as

        19       it was intended to be, an independent

        20       authority budget office.

        21                  In that context, we also provide

        22       for some rules and regulations in terms of how

        23       that director will be chosen.  It's a

        24       five-year term.  It's a panel that makes that

        25       determination.  And that director can only be


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         1       removed for cause.

         2                  In addition to that, we take some

         3       of the principles that were enunciated in 2005

         4       through hearings and corporate governance

         5       principles that were espoused by Ira Milstein,

         6       and we take that further.  We bring it into

         7       this year.  We had an hearing earlier this

         8       year with the Assembly on issues involving

         9       corporate governance.

        10                  And I think what we offer is

        11       getting to that next plateau, talking about a

        12       fiduciary duty, establishing what the

        13       standards may be, allowing the authority

        14       budget office to promulgate rules and

        15       regulations to effectuate the mission, making

        16       sure that our public authorities actually come

        17       up with mission statements, that they have to

        18       provide information not only to the

        19       Legislature but to the authority budget office

        20       so that they can do a critical and fair

        21       analysis of public authority operations in the

        22       State of New York.

        23                  And if you go back just a couple of

        24       years, I may be off by a little bit, but there

        25       are roughly 733 public authorities in the


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         1       State of New York.  They control over

         2       $113 billion of debt.  So we are talking about

         3       real money, and we are talking about a

         4       separate government that we are frankly trying

         5       to control.

         6                  So we have an independent authority

         7       budget office, we have a director that is

         8       chosen in a new and particular way, we have a

         9       whole set of standards that have to be adhered

        10       to.  We also allow for subpoena power.  We

        11       give the authority to publicly warn and

        12       censure.  We also allow for the Comptroller to

        13       approve contracts, and we set a standard so

        14       that the Comptroller has discretion below a

        15       certain amount.  But beyond a certain amount,

        16       the Comptroller has to take a look at

        17       authority contracts.

        18                  And finally, we offer two other

        19       things.  One is the whole concept of a

        20       fiduciary duty.  We do have challenges not

        21       only in the capacity in which we serve, but

        22       when you're looking at public authorities on a

        23       state and local basis, we want to remind

        24       people of who they are, what they're there

        25       for, and the fact that they are there to serve


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         1       the public interest.

         2                  By setting standards, making people

         3       sign an oath, making them realize that they

         4       have to adhere to those standards, we're

         5       hopefully raising the bar in the context of

         6       that discussion.

         7                  And last but by no means least, we

         8       offer whistleblower protection to people who

         9       would help ferret out corruption, waste and

        10       fraud in our public authorities.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Any

        12       other Senator wishing to be heard?

        13                  Senator Perkins.

        14                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Yeah, would the

        15       Senator yield for a question?

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        17       Flanagan, will you yield for a question?

        18                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        20       Perkins.

        21                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Senator

        22       Flanagan, I'd like to know if this legislation

        23       addresses the concerns of minority, women and

        24       business enterprises.

        25                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    There is no


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         1       specific language in the bill on that subject.

         2                  SENATOR PERKINS:    One of the --

         3       may I have another question?

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         5       Flanagan, do you continue to yield?

         6                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         8       Perkins.

         9                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Through you,

        10       Mr. President, if the sponsor will yield.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    The

        12       sponsor yields, yes.

        13                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Thank you.

        14                  The other concern I have is with

        15       regard to the voice of the minority

        16       conferences with respect to this legislation.

        17       Is the -- does the minority conference in the

        18       Assembly or the Senate have a voice that will

        19       be recorded at the PACB?

        20                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    There is no

        21       change from the present statute.

        22                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Again, will the

        23       sponsor yield for a question.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        25       Flanagan, do you continue to yield?


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         1                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         3       Perkins.

         4                  SENATOR PERKINS:    It is my

         5       understanding that in the negotiations, these

         6       issues were brought up, the minority, women

         7       and business enterprises as well as the

         8       minority voice to be recorded, and that there

         9       was some movement to accept that.  Am I

        10       correct?

        11                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    No.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        13       Perkins, do you wish to --

        14                  SENATOR PERKINS:    May I ask

        15       another question?

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        17       Flanagan, will you yield for an additional

        18       question?

        19                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        21       Perkins.

        22                  SENATOR PERKINS:    As I understand

        23       it, Assemblyman Brodsky had a different point

        24       of view and a positive point of view about

        25       this.  Am I correct?


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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         2       Flanagan.

         3                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Two

         4       observations.  One, I don't speak for

         5       Assemblyman Brodsky, I have enough challenge

         6       speaking for myself.  So I'm not going to

         7       characterize any of his remarks.

         8                  On the issue that you raise, there

         9       was never any language offered and never any

        10       further discussion, to the best of my

        11       knowledge.

        12                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Well, the fact

        13       that -- may I?

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        15       Flanagan, will you continue to yield?

        16                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        18       Perkins.

        19                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Again, with

        20       respect to prevailing wage, this was brought

        21       up at the negotiating sessions.  Am I correct?

        22                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes.

        23                  SENATOR PERKINS:    This was

        24       brought up at the negotiation sessions by

        25       Assemblyman Brodsky.  Am I correct?


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         1                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes.

         2                  SENATOR PERKINS:    And as with --

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Do you

         4       continue to ask the sponsor to yield, Senator

         5       Perkins?

         6                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Will he

         7       continue to yield?

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         9       Flanagan, do you continue to yield?

        10                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes, I will.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        12       Perkins.

        13                  SENATOR PERKINS:    And as with the

        14       prevailing wage and MWBE and the minority

        15       voice to be recorded, I believe -- I'm

        16       positive that Assemblyman Brodsky was in

        17       agreement with that, as you have indicated he

        18       was agreement with the other two matters.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    What is

        20       the nature of your question, sir?

        21                  SENATOR PERKINS:    I want to know

        22       if he recalls.

        23                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Senator

        24       Perkins, in response to your question and

        25       going back, I want to be absolutely clear.  I


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         1       don't speak for Assemblyman Brodsky.  I'm not

         2       going to characterize his remarks.  I was in

         3       several different meetings in which these

         4       issues were raised.

         5                  I would respectfully offer to you

         6       that they were raised.  In my opinion, they

         7       were not discussed in detail.  There was never

         8       any language offered from anyone concerning

         9       these subjects.

        10                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Will the

        11       sponsor yield?

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        13       Flanagan, will you continue to yield?

        14                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        16       Perkins.

        17                  SENATOR PERKINS:    The

        18       negotiations have not concluded, have they?

        19                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    I don't

        20       believe they have.

        21                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Will the

        22       sponsor continue to yield?

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        24       Flanagan, do you continue to yield?

        25                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes.


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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         2       Perkins.

         3                  SENATOR PERKINS:    It seems to me

         4       that this legislation is precluding the

         5       negotiations, short-circuiting the

         6       negotiations.  I'm sure you would agree.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         8       Flanagan.

         9                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    I would

        10       absolutely and completely disagree.

        11                  If anything, Senator Perkins, I

        12       would tell you that I believe this will help

        13       advance any negotiations.  Because I sat in

        14       meetings with a number of different people,

        15       and I found that the tenor and tone of those

        16       negotiations, they were moving positively

        17       forward, then they stalled and in my opinion

        18       they took a severe step backward.

        19                  And I would hasten to add that I

        20       think the particular reason that we took a

        21       step backward was because for some reason the

        22       Executive found it within their discretion and

        23       wisdom to retreat from positions that they not

        24       only held during these negotiations but

        25       certainly to treat from positions that were


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         1       taken by our Governor when he was Attorney

         2       General.

         3                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Let me say

         4       that, if I may --

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         6       Perkins, are you asking a question?

         7                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Will he

         8       continue to yield?

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        10       Flanagan, will you continue to yield?

        11                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        13       Perkins.

        14                  SENATOR PERKINS:    As you know,

        15       this conference is very committed to reforming

        16       the public authorities and has faithfully

        17       participated in the negotiations and put

        18       forward some very, very important concerns

        19       that we believe would have made the reforms

        20       more beneficial to the people of the State of

        21       New York.

        22                  Not having MWBE and a minority

        23       voice to be recorded in, or even to include

        24       the prevailing wage, and even at this point

        25       ending the negotiations or bringing forth this


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         1       legislation without the negotiations being

         2       concluded, as I pointed out earlier, seems to

         3       be circumventing.

         4                  So I think there's more work to be

         5       done.  And I look forward to continue working

         6       with you so that we come up with some

         7       legislation that truly speaks to the interests

         8       of the people in terms of reform and

         9       transparency.

        10                  Thank you.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Thank

        12       you, Senator Perkins.

        13                  Any other Senator wishing to be

        14       heard?

        15                  Debate is closed.

        16                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

        17                  Senator Liz Krueger.

        18                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        19       Thank you, Mr. President.

        20                  Would the sponsor please yield?

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Will

        22       the sponsor yield?

        23                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        25       Krueger.


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         1                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         2                  Does this bill address IDAs in any

         3       way?  Are they under the same rules and

         4       requirements as other public authorities in

         5       the context of your bill, Senator?

         6                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    I believe that

         7       it does.

         8                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

         9       Mr. President.  If, through you, the sponsor

        10       would continue to yield.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Will

        12       you continue to yield, Senator Flanagan?

        13                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes, I do.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        15       Krueger.

        16                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    And public

        17       benefit corporations as well as public

        18       authorities and IDAs are also included under

        19       the same rules and regulations of this bill?

        20                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes.

        21                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        22                  Mr. President, if the sponsor would

        23       continue to yield.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Do you

        25       yield, Senator Flanagan?


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         1                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes, I do.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         3       Krueger.

         4                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         5                  And does this bill address the

         6       concern that I believe we discussed back in

         7       the 2005 public authority reform about

         8       lobbyists not being able to -- not that they

         9       can't lobby IDAs and public authorities and

        10       public benefit corporations, but they would be

        11       obligated under the same ethics and lobbying

        12       laws as if they were lobbying government

        13       agencies?

        14                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    On that point,

        15       Mr. President, that issue has been advanced in

        16       discussions with all the different parties in

        17       five-way negotiations.  I think the most

        18       reticence and the most unwillingness to

        19       embrace that concept came from the Executive.

        20                  But I want to be fair.  I think

        21       what they're essentially grappling with is how

        22       they're going to do this on an overall basis.

        23                  I believe that within the context

        24       of public authorities that the same type of

        25       laws that apply to those who lobby before the


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         1       Legislature should be the same standard for

         2       our public authorities.

         3                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         4       Mr. President, if through you the sponsor

         5       would continue to yield.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Will

         7       you continue to yield, Senator Flanagan?

         8                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        10       Krueger.

        11                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        12       Just to rephrase my last question.

        13                  Is it in the bill that it's the

        14       same lobbying requirements and ethics rules

        15       for public benefit corporations, public

        16       authorities and IDAs as we passed for

        17       government agencies?  Or were you explaining

        18       your own hope that we would get there?  I

        19       didn't quite understand whether you were

        20       talking about that was in the bill now as

        21       we're seeing it.

        22                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    It is not in

        23       the bill.

        24                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    It is not

        25       in the bill.


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         1                  Thank you, Mr. President.  If the

         2       sponsor would continue to yield.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         4       Flanagan, do you continue to yield?

         5                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes, I do.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         7       Krueger.

         8                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         9                  Are there any changes to the PACB

        10       in this bill?

        11                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    No.

        12                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        13       Mr. President.  I'd like to speak on the bill.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        15       Krueger, on the bill.

        16                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        17       I thank the Senator for his answers.

        18                  I by and large support this bill.

        19       It goes down many of the roads I think it is

        20       important for us to be going down.  As was

        21       said by my colleague Senator Perkins, many of

        22       us want exactly the same things in changes to

        23       our laws around public authorities, IDAs and

        24       public benefit corporations, including greater

        25       transparency, more documentation, more


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         1       reporting, more access by the public to the

         2       information.

         3                  I wish that as Senator Flanagan

         4       described there wasn't, as he perceives, a

         5       breakdown in the negotiations.  And I am

         6       hopeful that everyone will get back to the

         7       table on this, because this bill doesn't go

         8       far enough.  And there are still some serious

         9       concerns out there.

        10                  I personally would very much like

        11       the same lobbying requirements and ethics

        12       rules and mandatory reporting and transparency

        13       whenever we are negotiating or contracting out

        14       or moving government money through -- whether

        15       it's a state agency, a public benefit

        16       corporation, an IDA or a public authority.

        17                  I personally would like to see far

        18       more transparency in the process for the

        19       public and for those in elected office.  I

        20       don't think the current PACB is the best

        21       model.  I wish that we had greater inclusion

        22       of other players in the Public Authority

        23       Control Board.  I wish certainly that at

        24       minimum, and I say sincerely at minimum, that

        25       anyone who's a participant in the PACB and has


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         1       a concern raised ought to have that concern

         2       reflected in the public minutes of the Public

         3       Authority Control Board.

         4                  I also believe that there is

         5       significant territory that we would come to

         6       agreement on if we continue to negotiate with

         7       all the parties involved.

         8                  So I will support the bill.  But I

         9       hope that in continuation of negotiations,

        10       through conference committee with the Assembly

        11       and the Governor's office and discussions with

        12       the minorities as well as the majorities,

        13       we'll end up with a better bill at the end of

        14       the year before June 22nd.

        15                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Are

        17       there any other Senators wishing to be heard?

        18                  Senator Stavisky.

        19                  SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Stavisky's

        20       over here someplace.  And actually we don't

        21       look anything alike.  But that's all right,

        22       you're new.

        23                  Mr. President, on the bill.

        24                  I think that I can understand the

        25       sponsor's feeling that maybe this will


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         1       jump-start the negotiations.  It seems to be

         2       bogged down just a little bit, and hopefully

         3       that passing this bill will help.

         4                  I know that Senator Perkins brought

         5       up some parts that were brought up by the

         6       minority in the conversations.  Hopefully as

         7       we continue with negotiations beyond this

         8       point, that possibly those things may get a

         9       little bit more light.

        10                  I would like to point out, though,

        11       that language was offered up on the recorded

        12       voice of the minority members of the PACB.

        13       That the sponsor didn't see it, I can't be

        14       responsible for that.  But I know that I

        15       happened to be at the meeting where we passed

        16       that along.

        17                  And it just seems like a crazy rule

        18       that you can make a statement in the meeting

        19       and then if one of the three voting parties

        20       say, "Well, we don't want that to be part of

        21       the meeting," that's a little bit beyond "this

        22       is my ball and you guys can't play."

        23                  But the fact is as long as we're

        24       cleaning things up, that would be reasonable

        25       cleanup, since they still don't want the


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         1       minorities to vote.  And possibly if that's

         2       the least you can get, I don't think it's a

         3       bad compromise to at least give us a recorded

         4       vote when you do bring up a strong point in

         5       the process okaying some kind of financial

         6       investment with the money of the people of the

         7       State of New York.

         8                  So I think that there's a lot of

         9       things in the bill that we like.  Hopefully

        10       through further negotiations we can get other

        11       things in.

        12                  I understand that the sponsor said

        13       that the Governor's people are really

        14       interested in doing lobbying in a separate

        15       bill.  And I might be able to understand that

        16       also, to try to handle all lobbying in one as

        17       we go forward.  We did one lobbying bill

        18       already.  They want to look at how to do the

        19       rest of that in some other table.  And

        20       hopefully that will take place.

        21                  So with those things in mind, I

        22       really don't have any trouble supporting this

        23       bill, and I will be voting for it.

        24                  Thank you.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Thank


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         1       you, Senator Stachowski.

         2                  Anyone else wishing to speak?

         3                  Debate is closed.  The Secretary

         4       will ring the bell.

         5                  Read the last section.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 36.  This

         7       act shall take effect on the 60th day.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Call

         9       the roll.

        10                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        12       Flanagan, to explain his vote.

        13                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Thank you,

        14       Mr. President.

        15                  I want to make two basic points.

        16       The first is I feel very strongly that this is

        17       a push in the right direction on reform.

        18       There are a number of strong components within

        19       this bill that I think everybody can support

        20       quite easily.

        21                  Senator Krueger, I want to clarify

        22       an answer that I gave to you on one of your

        23       questions.  Regarding lobbying, the previous

        24       law that we enacted applied to state agencies

        25       and kept the same standards that exist for


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         1       lobbying the Legislature.  That applies to

         2       public authorities as well.

         3                  The discussion that has been

         4       ongoing but not included is what about

         5       incidental contact.  You know, sort of the

         6       nominal contact -- who comes in, when do they

         7       come in, who are they going to see.

         8                  But the way it is set up, when

         9       people lobby us, the same standard applies

        10       from the old law in relation to public

        11       authorities.  That's a very positive thing.

        12                  Thank you.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        14       Perkins, to explain his vote.

        15                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Thank you very

        16       much.

        17                  I want to acknowledge again that I

        18       think we've made a step in the right

        19       direction, but not much of a step that would

        20       convince me to support this bill.  The

        21       minority and women business enterprises being

        22       absent from this bill is very, very

        23       significant, as well as the prevailing wage

        24       discussion.

        25                  And I think that the fact that


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         1       negotiations are still going on is

         2       significant.  For some reason, all of a sudden

         3       this bill has come, and I guess it's to force

         4       the Governor's hand or to get negotiations to

         5       move forward in some way.

         6                  But I think if that's going to

         7       happen, then it has to include some of what we

         8       discussed earlier where there seems to have

         9       been some very positive movement.  This bill

        10       is too silent on these very, very important

        11       areas, especially since it also does not

        12       include any changes with the Public

        13       Authorities Control Board.  And having more

        14       public involvement and participation I think

        15       is also where there's room for improvement.

        16                  So again, I'm going to have to vote

        17       no on this bill for those reasons and look

        18       forward to continuing to work to make a better

        19       bill for the people.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        21       Perkins in the negative.

        22                  Senator Montgomery, to explain her

        23       vote.

        24                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes,

        25       Mr. President.  As my colleagues, I have some


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         1       concerns.

         2                  There are some areas where there

         3       are still negotiations being done, and I'm

         4       happy to know that that is an ongoing process.

         5       I understand that this is not the final bill.

         6       And so I appreciate that there are some pieces

         7       that are still undone.

         8                  But I believe there are more areas

         9       of agreement than there are disagreement.  And

        10       I'd just like to say, Mr. President, that this

        11       has been a very, very long and arduous process

        12       and we've taken it in pieces.  We did -- this

        13       last session, I think we did a pretty good job

        14       of beginning to really reform the authorities

        15       and the way that they do business and the way

        16       that they do the business of the state.  This

        17       goes even further.  I think that we're getting

        18       there.

        19                  So the process has begun.  I

        20       believe that we will finish this by the end of

        21       this session.  I hope that the Majority Leader

        22       is sincere in that he really wants to have a

        23       negotiated bill and a resolution.  And so I'm

        24       going to support this effort to begin moving

        25       toward an end where we have a real bill in


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         1       place.

         2                  Thank you, Mr. President.  I vote

         3       aye.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         5       Montgomery in the affirmative.

         6                  Announce the results.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

         8       the negative on Calendar Number 919 are

         9       Senators Adams, Duane, Gonzalez, Parker and

        10       Perkins.

        11                  Ayes, 56.  Nays, 5.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    The

        13       bill is passed.

        14                  Senator Libous.

        15                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Mr. President,

        16       could we go back to motions and please call on

        17       Senator Nozzolio, please.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Motions

        19       and resolutions.

        20                  The chair recognizes Senator

        21       Nozzolio.

        22                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you,

        23       Mr. President.

        24                  On behalf of Senator DeFrancisco, I

        25       wish to call up Calendar Number 835, Assembly


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         1       Print Number 7376.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    The

         3       Secretary will read.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         5       835, by Member of the Assembly Weinstein,

         6       Assembly Print Number 7376, an act to amend

         7       the Real Property Actions and Proceedings Law.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         9       Nozzolio.

        10                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    I now move to

        11       reconsider the vote by which this Assembly

        12       bill was substituted for Senator DeFrancisco's

        13       bill, Senate Print Number 4210, on May 15th.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Call

        15       the roll on reconsideration.

        16                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 61.

        18                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    I now move

        19       that Assembly Bill Number 7376 be recommitted

        20       to the Committee on Judiciary and that the

        21       Senate Bill be restored to the order of Third

        22       Reading Calendar.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    So

        24       ordered.

        25                  Senator Libous.


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         1                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Mr. President,

         2       could we have the reading of the

         3       noncontroversial Rules report calendar,

         4       please.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    We will

         6       now have the reading of the noncontroversial

         7       Rules report.

         8                  The Secretary will read.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        10       1173, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5848, an

        11       act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

        12       collection of DNA samples.

        13                  SENATOR SMITH:    Lay it aside.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Lay it

        15       aside.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        17       1174, by Senator Lanza, Senate Print 5888, an

        18       act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

        19       establishing an advisory council.

        20                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Lay it

        21       aside.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Lay it

        23       aside.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        25       1175, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5892, an


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         1       act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

         2       creating the Children's Healthy Access to

         3       Meals Program.

         4                  SENATOR SMITH:    Lay it aside.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Lay it

         6       aside.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         8       1176, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 5902,

         9       an act to amend the Penal Law and others, in

        10       relation to human trafficking.

        11                  SENATOR SMITH:    Lay that bill

        12       aside.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Lay it

        14       aside.

        15                  Senator Libous, that completes the

        16       noncontroversial reading of the calendar.

        17                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Mr. President,

        18       seeing that those bills are all laid aside,

        19       can we now take up the controversial calendar,

        20       starting with Bill Number 1173, by Senator

        21       Skelos.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    The

        23       Secretary will read.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        25       1173, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5848, an


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         1       act to amend the Executive Law.

         2                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:

         3       Explanation, please.

         4                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         6       Skelos.

         7                  SENATOR SKELOS:    I believe

         8       Senator Schneiderman has asked for an

         9       explanation, and I'd be delighted to give him

        10       one.

        11                  This is the Governor's program bill

        12       concerning the expansion of the DNA database.

        13       I should point out what the Governor has done

        14       here is really he's cut and pieced together

        15       and pasted many bills that have passed the

        16       Senate on numerous occasions but unfortunately

        17       have not found their place within the Assembly

        18       floor for passage.

        19                  For example, last year this house

        20       passed legislation which I sponsored which

        21       would expand the DNA database to all crimes.

        22       The Assembly would not pass it, but we did

        23       expand it to, of course, all felonies and some

        24       misdemeanors, which would be about 50 percent

        25       of the total crimes.


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         1                  It requires the DNA samples to be

         2       given by persons adjudicated to be youthful

         3       offenders.  The Senate has previously passed

         4       this legislation; the Assembly has not.

         5                  It requires a person who must

         6       register as a sex offender coming from another

         7       state to also give a DNA sample.  This is a

         8       new component of the legislation, which

         9       certainly as the sponsor of Megan's Law and

        10       this conference, supporting the constant

        11       strength of Megan's law, would be supportive

        12       of.

        13                  Statute of limitations.  It tolls

        14       the running of the statute of limitations --

        15       this is the Governor's bill -- for five years

        16       for prosecution of any crime for which DNA

        17       evidence is found at the crime scene but

        18       there's no match in the DNA database.  This

        19       house has passed on several occasions,

        20       including this year, my legislation which

        21       would toll the statute of limitations

        22       indefinitely where DNA evidence is found at

        23       the crime scene.

        24                  It creates an office of wrongful

        25       conviction review.  Prior to this year, the


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         1       Senate has supported legislation which would

         2       create a commission to carry out similar

         3       duties.

         4                  There's also legislation concerning

         5       evidence standards, the collection of DNA

         6       evidence, an optional local government fee,

         7       and also an Innocence Project, which I recall

         8       was in one of my first DNA bills that I passed

         9       that did have an Innocence Project in it but

        10       for some reason the Assembly would not support

        11       that legislation.

        12                  So this is the Governor's program

        13       bill in which he's taken legislation that the

        14       Senate has passed in many instances, put it

        15       all together, and is calling it the Governor's

        16       program bill.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        18       Schneiderman.

        19                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank the

        20       sponsor for that interesting explanation.

        21                  Mr. President, I believe there's an

        22       amendment at the desk.  I ask that the reading

        23       of the amendment be waived and that I be heard

        24       on the amendment.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Reading


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         1       is waived.  You may be heard on the amendment.

         2                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

         3       Mr. President.

         4                  I think today is a fascinating

         5       exercise in the bifurcated procedure in which

         6       we are engaged in this year in the New York

         7       State Legislature.  Senator Skelos and I and

         8       others were just downstairs, along with Leader

         9       Smith and Senator Bruno, discussing with the

        10       Governor, really being led in negotiations

        11       with the Governor on the DNA bill that we are

        12       now addressing on the floor.

        13                  And in the course of that

        14       discussion -- in which I actually believe we

        15       came very close to working out the parameters

        16       of a bill that can be embraced by both houses

        17       and finally passed -- several issues were

        18       raised that are in fact addressed in this

        19       amendment.  So this is something that I

        20       consider more in the way of a friendly

        21       amendment.

        22                  I agree with virtually everything

        23       Senator Skelos said, particularly the parts in

        24       which he successfully identified himself as

        25       the original sponsor of many of these


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         1       provisions.  But in addition I agree with the

         2       point that this is a bill that seeks to make

         3       DNA evidence as widely available as possible

         4       to exonerate the innocent and to convict the

         5       guilty.  That is the overall vision that the

         6       Governor articulated downstairs, the Governor

         7       articulated in introducing this bill, and I

         8       agree that that's what we should be doing.

         9                  There are several areas in which I

        10       personally believe this bill has problems, and

        11       I would like to suggest three in this

        12       amendment.  And I would urge my colleagues --

        13       I realize these are nontraditional times.

        14       Perhaps if we as a body do adopt this

        15       amendment, I think we'd bring back to the

        16       Governor a better bill than the one he sent

        17       us.

        18                  The first area in which I would

        19       suggest we modify this legislation is with

        20       regard to the provision for the preservation

        21       of biological evidence, Section 5 of the

        22       Governor's program bill.  The Governor's

        23       program bill provides for voluntary

        24       guidelines, guidelines that would be optional

        25       for the preservation of DNA evidence.


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         1                  Now, you all were here last week

         2       and the week before when we were joined by

         3       some people who worked with the Innocence

         4       Project and other organizations and had been

         5       exonerated by DNA evidence after years of

         6       incarceration.  In several of these cases

         7       there were people there whose DNA was simply

         8       lost in the system.

         9                  One man from the Bronx, Al Newton,

        10       a very articulate gentleman, kept asking that

        11       they run his DNA against the database because

        12       he hadn't committed the crime.  The assistant

        13       district attorney kept contacting the

        14       warehouse in Queens and kept being told the

        15       DNA was lost.

        16                  The DNA wasn't lost; he just didn't

        17       have the voucher number, so they couldn't find

        18       it.  It was in a barrel with his name on it.

        19       Can you imagine doing a decade in prison for a

        20       crime you didn't commit because they lost your

        21       DNA?

        22                  Well, unfortunately this bill, as

        23       currently drafted, only provides for voluntary

        24       protocols for the storage of DNA and the

        25       preservation of DNA, and provides no direction


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         1       to any local authorities for how to catalog

         2       DNA.  So our modest suggestion to improve this

         3       bill would be to change the language in

         4       Section 5 to require a mandatory set of

         5       guidelines for the preservation and cataloging

         6       of DNA evidence.  We think that is only good

         7       sense.  It does us no good to massively expand

         8       the database if we're not going to adequately

         9       preserve and catalog the evidence.

        10                  The second area in which this

        11       amendment changes the Governor's bill is that

        12       the innocence commission, which Senator Skelos

        13       referred to, in this bill is really not an

        14       independent agency.  It is something that's

        15       actually entitled the office of wrongful

        16       conviction review.  And under this provisions

        17       of this legislation, it is located within the

        18       Department of Criminal Justice Services.

        19                  In other words, the people who may

        20       directly or indirectly have some

        21       responsibility for the policies that could be

        22       called into question by this commission are in

        23       the same department as this commission.

        24       There's no provision to ensure that it is

        25       independent.


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         1                  So our suggestion is to make it an

         2       independent agency outside of the Department

         3       of Criminal Justice Services.  And in our

         4       amendment we provide some guidelines for how

         5       we think that can best be done.

         6                  The final area -- and while this is

         7       really, as I say, a friendly amendment and

         8       done with all regard for the Governor's

         9       absolutely effective and sincere efforts to

        10       move us forward towards an expansion of the

        11       DNA database and better utility of the DNA

        12       database for the benefit of the innocent and

        13       the conviction of the guilty, one thing in

        14       this bill really just doesn't belong in this

        15       bill, and that's the modification that's

        16       included in Sections 11 through 17 of the

        17       Governor's program bill, which is a change in

        18       Article 440 of the Criminal Procedure Law.

        19                  This change could potentially have

        20       a devastating impact on people who seek

        21       post-conviction review of their cases.

        22                  I would commend to all of you the

        23       excellent memo written on this specific issue

        24       by the New York State Defenders Association,

        25       which clearly identifies this as a -- if not a


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         1       poison pill, then certainly a stowaway.  This

         2       is a provision that has nothing to do, really,

         3       with DNA evidence.  In fact, it would allow

         4       people to continue to bring 440 proceedings to

         5       seek relief if they had newly discovered

         6       evidence, such as DNA, but it would limit them

         7       to one year after their conviction to bring

         8       any other action for relief.

         9                  So, for example, if someone was

        10       denied their constitutional right to an

        11       attorney, they now would not be able to bring

        12       an application for relief if they only

        13       realized they had that right a year later.  If

        14       there was coercion, there was improper

        15       prosecutorial conduct, those applications

        16       would be barred after one year.

        17                  That is unfair.  Particularly

        18       people who are running through the system,

        19       located in prison, no access to a lawyer, lack

        20       of clarity as to their rights, that's an

        21       unnecessary and unfair burden.  And I would

        22       suggest we take that out.  Take that out, make

        23       the office of wrongful conviction review into

        24       a real innocence commission, and let's change

        25       the protocols for the safe storage and


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         1       cataloging of DNA evidence.  And then what is

         2       a good bill could become a great bill.

         3                  And I would urge, Mr. President,

         4       that all of my colleagues on both sides of the

         5       aisle really should support these amendments.

         6       It does modify the Governor's bill.  We talked

         7       about all of those issues openly with the

         8       Governor downstairs.  He expressed his

         9       interest in reviewing them.  So I don't say

        10       this -- this is not done in any sort of a

        11       hostile way.  This is a part of our ongoing

        12       discussion with the executive branch.

        13                  I am confident that with the

        14       Governor's leadership in this area we are

        15       going to pass a bill.  But I would urge that

        16       this amendment, the three provisions in this

        17       amendment, are absolutely necessary if it's to

        18       be done the right way.

        19                  Particularly, I do not see any way

        20       that we're going to bring a bill to the floor

        21       of both houses and get it signed into law this

        22       year that includes the gutting of the 440

        23       provision as done by the current draft of the

        24       bill.  So let's take that out.  With those

        25       modifications, Your Honor, I think we're


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         1       prepared to go forward and I predict we will

         2       have a DNA bill that makes us all proud before

         3       the end of the session.

         4                  Thank you.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Thank

         6       you, counsel.

         7                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Mr. President.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         9       Skelos.

        10                  SENATOR SKELOS:    If I could just

        11       comment on learned counsel's amendment.

        12                  I'm not going to really discuss the

        13       pros and cons of the amendment, but I would

        14       point out that we are truly on a path of

        15       getting legislation passed once we go to

        16       conference committee of the Legislature.

        17                  Conference committee is not just

        18       with the Governor, conference committee is

        19       supposed to be between the Senate and the

        20       Assembly, where issues are resolved.  And my

        21       concern is with your amendment if the canvass

        22       of agreement is agreed upon, as you know,

        23       under the rules of the Senate, the bill then

        24       has to go back to the committee of origin for

        25       ten days.  So we would not be able to have


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         1       conference committee for at least ten days.

         2       And that would come near the end of

         3       conference, passage of the legislation would

         4       be threatened.  And quite honestly, I think it

         5       would add to dysfunction, as you like to say,

         6       to the legislative process, which we're trying

         7       to avoid.

         8                  And really what we should be doing

         9       today is passing this bill, going to joint

        10       conference committee with the Assembly,

        11       getting a result and then going to the

        12       Governor and saying:  Governor, this is what

        13       the Legislature wants to do, you have your

        14       right to veto or support the legislation.

        15                  So I would just urge my colleagues

        16       who are truly interested in passing a DNA bill

        17       this year that they not support the canvass of

        18       agreement so that we can immediately get to

        19       joint conference committee with the Assembly.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        21       Adams, on the amendment.

        22                  SENATOR ADAMS:    Mr. President,

        23       first I want to commend my colleague on the

        24       amendment.

        25                  The issue of DNA is new.  And when


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         1       you look at the fact that one of the most

         2       advanced police departments in the country was

         3       unable to find just a voucher, you have to

         4       stop and pause for a moment and ask yourself

         5       this new technology that we have, are we doing

         6       the right things with the infrastructure to

         7       allow our police officers and police agencies

         8       to properly use this technology.

         9                  Because the goal is not only to

        10       ensure that we incarcerate, but the goal is to

        11       also ensure that we don't allow innocent

        12       people to serve time in jail for crimes that

        13       they did not commit.

        14                  And if we are just merely looking

        15       for political expediency, to say that, hey, we

        16       passed the bill, that's fine for the other

        17       guys.  That's not fine for me.  It's fine for

        18       me to pass the right bill.  And if there's an

        19       important component that's missing that is

        20       brought to our attention, the least we can do

        21       is stop, pause, and rectify whatever the

        22       problems are.

        23                  So merely to pass a DNA bill,

        24       that's feel-good dysfunctional legislation.

        25       Passing a bill that covers the issues that we


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         1       believe are important, such as making sure the

         2       infrastructure is in place that we can store

         3       the DNA data, that police officers can

         4       retrieve that data and we can ensure that a

         5       crime is solved -- I always revert back to the

         6       Central Park jogger case.

         7                  The person who was guilty of the

         8       crime was allowed to stay out of jail and

         9       continue his crime spree because we didn't use

        10       the infrastructure that was available to

        11       detect who was guilty of the crime in the

        12       first place.

        13                  So I commend my colleague.  And I

        14       say to my colleagues across the aisle, the

        15       goal is not merely just to pass a piece of

        16       legislation, the goal is to pass the right

        17       legislation that we won't have men and women

        18       across this state spend 12 to 15 years in jail

        19       because someone couldn't find a voucher.

        20                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        22       Schneiderman.

        23                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

        24       Mr. President.

        25                  Just in response to my comrade in


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         1       arms in the effort to pass DNA legislation,

         2       Senator Skelos, I just want to observe a

         3       couple of things.

         4                  First of all, I don't think that

         5       this bringing a motion is a cause of

         6       dysfunctionality.  This is not in any way

         7       going to delay things.  This bill is not

         8       scheduled with the Assembly.  And I assure

         9       you, after my discussions with our colleagues

        10       in the Assembly, it's not going to pass any

        11       time soon.

        12                  There's no conference committee

        13       scheduled now, so there's nothing we're

        14       holding up.  We could amend the bill to

        15       accommodate these modest modifications --

        16       modest but significant modifications -- move

        17       it to the floor tomorrow and pass it.

        18                  But the dysfunctionality really

        19       comes from the fact that we wouldn't have to

        20       bring this amendment this way on the floor

        21       through these formalistic procedures if the

        22       people on this side of the aisle had input

        23       into what bills actually come to the floor.

        24       If we were in the conferences, if we had real

        25       functional committees in this house, then we


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         1       could all work these things out and report out

         2       bills that did not exclude the representatives

         3       of half the people of the state.

         4                  So that really is the

         5       dysfunctionality I think we should address

         6       with rules changes in this Majority -- or in

         7       the next.  In the meantime, I suggest everyone

         8       vote yes for this amendment.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        10       Marcellino, on the amendment.

        11                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.

        12       President, again, when we talk about passing

        13       something for expedience, we're passing the

        14       Governor's program bill here.  This was

        15       written by the Governor and his staff.  And he

        16       seemed to, according to what I've heard from

        17       Senator Skelos, cobble together legislation

        18       that had been passed several times in this

        19       house before.

        20                  This bill, once passed, will go to

        21       a conference committee, Senator.  The purpose

        22       of the conference committee is to reconcile

        23       differences between what is passed in the

        24       other house and what is passed in this house.

        25       That's the legislative process as we do it


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         1       here.

         2                  So we're not doing anything

         3       expediently just for the purpose of passing a

         4       bill.  The process is it goes to conference

         5       committees.  We're urging the call immediately

         6       for a conference committee.  Pass the bill,

         7       move to conference committees, reconcile the

         8       differences and move on.  The Governor says

         9       yea or nay.  That's his right, and we have

        10       another say.

        11                  So I urge this canvass of agreement

        12       be voted down.  Let's proceed with the passage

        13       of this bill, move on to conference

        14       committees, as our colleague Senator Skelos

        15       has said, and let's get this very important

        16       piece of legislation done.

        17                  Thank you.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        19       Skelos.

        20                  SENATOR SKELOS:    If I could just

        21       perhaps close for this side on this argument,

        22       I would point out that I believe in the Codes

        23       Committee and the Finance Committee this bill

        24       came out unanimously, except for Senator

        25       Krueger voting without recommendation.


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         1                  So I think the bill has moved

         2       along.  Everybody recognizes the need for

         3       something to be accomplished.  And what I'm

         4       saying, Senator Schneiderman, not that the

         5       amendment is dysfunctional.  You have the

         6       right to do that.  What I'm saying is this

         7       bill being referred to committee now for

         8       10 days if it were passed would add to a

         9       disorderly dysfunctional closing of the

        10       session, as was mentioned.

        11                  It came out of Rules.  I meant the

        12       Rules Committee.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        14       Schneiderman.

        15                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I hate to

        16       prolong this, but would Senator Skelos yield

        17       for one question?  One question.

        18                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Yes.

        19                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Is this

        20       bill on the calendar in the Assembly?  Or is

        21       there any other indication -- we can't go to a

        22       conference committee unless both houses pass

        23       the bill.  What are we going to conference if

        24       we did pass this today?

        25                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Well, the answer


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         1       is very simple.  We all agree that the

         2       Assembly is totally dysfunctional.

         3                  (Laughter.)

         4                  SENATOR SKELOS:    And what --

         5                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    My silence

         6       should not be taken as acquiescence.

         7                  SENATOR SKELOS:    The Assembly has

         8       bills that they could pass, the Speaker has

         9       indicated.  I believe he's the sponsor of one

        10       that he was touting in the meeting we had

        11       today with the Governor.

        12                  So I'm sure they could pass the

        13       bill tomorrow if they wanted, if they're

        14       serious about getting a result, just as we're

        15       passing it today.  And I believe Senator Bruno

        16       would call conference committees

        17       expeditiously.

        18                  So really I would urge you to ask

        19       Speaker Silver to pass the bill and let's get

        20       to conference committee if he's serious.

        21                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

        22       Mr. President.  There is no bill on the

        23       calendar for the Assembly.

        24                  But I thank the sponsor for his

        25       answers.


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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         2       Duane, on the amendment.

         3                  SENATOR DUANE:    Yes,

         4       Mr. President.  It should never be that a

         5       legislative body just accepts something from

         6       the chief executive, no matter what party that

         7       person may be from.

         8                  It is always not only appropriate

         9       but the responsibility of a legislative body

        10       to deliberate.  The bill that was placed

        11       before us was obviously a starting point and

        12       not the completion of the process.

        13                  In terms of dysfunction, I think

        14       it's dysfunctional to only put a piece of

        15       legislation -- which it's been acknowledged

        16       has been around for a while -- but to just put

        17       it on the floor -- actually, just to make

        18       it -- to announce that it's going to be on the

        19       floor the morning of the day when it's going

        20       to be on the floor, and to rush it out to the

        21       floor, that is irresponsible and something

        22       that I think we could all agree, or I hope all

        23       of us would agree and I know the advocates

        24       would agree, that that is a dysfunctional way

        25       to run a house of the Legislature.


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         1                  So having a healthy debate on --

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         3       Robach, why do you rise?

         4                  SENATOR ROBACH:    Would Senator

         5       Duane yield for a question?

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         7       Duane, will you yield?

         8                  SENATOR DUANE:    When I'm done

         9       speaking, Mr. President, I'd be glad to.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        11       Duane.

        12                  SENATOR DUANE:    So if we are to

        13       be the deliberative body which I think the

        14       people sent us here to be, then we would

        15       provide for a longer and more inclusive way of

        16       discussing and indeed debating legislation

        17       than what I would characterize as springing it

        18       on us even though the urgency of the matter

        19       has been debunked.

        20                  Now I'll be pleased to respond to

        21       any questions.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        23       Robach.

        24                  SENATOR ROBACH:    Yes, Senator

        25       Duane, if you -- I guess my question would be


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         1       so you think --

         2                  SENATOR DUANE:    Are you doing it

         3       through the President?

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    I've

         5       given him the floor, Senator Duane, for his

         6       question to speak to you.

         7                  SENATOR ROBACH:    I'm sorry.  Mr.

         8       President, through you, would Senator Duane

         9       yield for a question?

        10                  SENATOR DUANE:    Yes.

        11                  SENATOR ROBACH:    Thank you.

        12                  My question is so you feel, from

        13       your statement there, then, just for

        14       clarification, that we who are embracing the

        15       Governor's program bill on a series of bills

        16       that we have passed here previously that we

        17       think not only helps crime victims, children,

        18       other people have been exploited but also can

        19       exonerate people who are innocent by using

        20       today's technology, the fingerprint of the

        21       decade, DNA technology, that we've embraced,

        22       that we are somehow getting pushed around from

        23       the Governor and be dysfunctional -- but you,

        24       who are all on a bill, over a weekend

        25       conversation who got off on that, that's good


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         1       government?  I guess that's my question.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         3       Duane.

         4                  SENATOR DUANE:    Mr. President,

         5       the bill that we have before us today is

         6       not -- and it's been characterized this way --

         7       is not exactly the same as a bill that we've

         8       had before us before.  It's an amalgamation of

         9       different bills, although it is missing the

        10       amendment, the pieces that -- important

        11       pieces, I would say -- that Senator

        12       Schneiderman's amendment would include.

        13                  So I think that speaks to the need

        14       for deliberations by the Legislature in its

        15       entirety as it responds to the initial DNA

        16       legislation that was put on the table by the

        17       Governor.

        18                  And I have to say I have no idea

        19       what the rest of the question was about,

        20       but -- so I would say yes or no depending on

        21       what the question was.

        22                  (Laughter.)

        23                  SENATOR ROBACH:    I'll let you go.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        25       Morahan.


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         1                  SENATOR MORAHAN:    Thank you,

         2       Mr. President.  Would the sponsor please yield

         3       for a few questions?

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Will

         5       the sponsor of the amendment please yield?

         6                  SENATOR MORAHAN:    No, no, the

         7       sponsor of the bill.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    We're

         9       on the amendment, Senator.

        10                  SENATOR MORAHAN:    I understand

        11       that.  I really wanted to ask the sponsor of

        12       the bill if he would respond to a question.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        14       Skelos, will you yield?

        15                  SENATOR SKELOS:    I think so.

        16                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Mr.

        17       President, I have the floor for the amendment.

        18       We should vote on that.  I think it's more

        19       appropriate then on the bill for Senator

        20       Morahan to conduct his inquiry, his vicious

        21       cross-examination.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    He may

        23       ask on any aspect of the bill, even though the

        24       amendment is before us, because it is on the

        25       bill.  It is an amendment to the bill.


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         1                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I just ask

         2       that we don't lose track of the fact that

         3       we're now waiting to vote on the amendment.

         4       I'm sure there are other points to be made on

         5       the bill.

         6                  Thank you, Mr. President.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         8       Morahan.

         9                  SENATOR MORAHAN:    Just for

        10       Senator Schneiderman's information, the

        11       questions of Senator Skelos will deal with the

        12       thoughts behind the amendment, if I could

        13       proceed in a way that I would prefer to

        14       proceed.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    You

        16       may, Senator Morahan.

        17                  SENATOR MORAHAN:    Thank you.  And

        18       thank you, Senator Schneiderman.

        19                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    You're

        20       very welcome.

        21                  SENATOR MORAHAN:    Senator Skelos,

        22       I've been in this Legislature, in this body

        23       for several years.  Have we had these bills on

        24       the floor before?

        25                  SENATOR SKELOS:    As you know, as


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         1       the liaison to the Governor, Senator Morahan,

         2       every single one of these bills --

         3                  SENATOR MORAHAN:    I withdraw the

         4       questions.  Thank you, Senator.

         5                  (Laughter.)

         6                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Every single one

         7       of these bills have passed the Senate.

         8                  SENATOR MORAHAN:    Mr. President,

         9       I withdraw the questions.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    The

        11       question is withdrawn.

        12                  On the amendment, those Senators in

        13       agreement please signify by raising your

        14       hands.

        15                  Further discussion on the

        16       amendment?  Senator Krueger has a question on

        17       the amendment.

        18                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        19       Mr. President.  Thank you, Senator.  If the

        20       sponsor of the amendment would please yield to

        21       a question.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        23       Schneiderman, will you yield to a question

        24       from Senator Krueger?

        25                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Yes, I'll


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         1       be glad to.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         3       Liz Krueger.

         4                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

         5       Mr. President.

         6                  It seems we got into a very

         7       confusing debate here.  So just to clarify for

         8       myself, Senator, as you explained in your

         9       hostile amendment, if the bill were to become

        10       law as it currently is, would some people who

        11       have actually been exonerated with DNA

        12       evidence under existing law risk not being

        13       able to be exonerated in the future because of

        14       this law?

        15                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you.

        16       Through you, Mr. President.  It doesn't apply

        17       retroactively, in the sense that someone who

        18       was exonerated will still be exonerated.

        19                  What this bill would do -- one of

        20       the things this bill would do, and the thing

        21       to which -- again, I emphasize, I strongly

        22       support most parts of this bill.  This is one

        23       thing to which I strongly object -- is that it

        24       would gut Criminal Procedure Law Article 440,

        25       which is the provision that allows people


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         1       post-judgment relief from a wrongful

         2       conviction.

         3                  Now, this particular piece of

         4       legislation does provide an exception for

         5       newly discovered evidence.  So some DNA

         6       evidence, a person raising newly discovered

         7       DNA evidence might still be allowed to bring a

         8       440 application if this bill was passed.

         9                  However, this would impose a

        10       one-year limitation on every other possible

        11       type of application for post-judgment relief.

        12       So the very serious problem that we have in

        13       this state of denial of counsel, inadequate

        14       service of counsel, where you have a situation

        15       where someone may have a counsel who's drunk

        16       or asleep, as happens in this case on those

        17       very issues, might not realize they had a

        18       claim until more than a year had passed.

        19       Someone who was the victim of prosecutorial

        20       misconduct.

        21                  So there is an exception in the

        22       current legislation for newly discovered

        23       evidence.  And I credit the drafters with

        24       that.  This provision, however, would impose a

        25       strict one-year-from-conviction deadline that


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         1       would, I believe, endanger many, many people

         2       wrongfully convicted in the sense that they

         3       would no longer have a right they have today,

         4       whenever they discover that they have a claim

         5       for some sort of exculpation, that they can

         6       bring their motion.

         7                  So that's the thing that I'm

         8       concerned about on Article 440, Senator

         9       Krueger.

        10                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        11       Mr. President, on the amendment.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        13       Krueger, on the amendment.

        14                  SENATOR L. KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        15                  I needed to ask the question and

        16       get the answer clarified because in the

        17       discussion it sounded like maybe we're just

        18       having a minor technical debate about some of

        19       the language somebody might not like that

        20       could come out in a conference committee.

        21                  But as I was reading the materials,

        22       my understanding -- and Senator Schneiderman

        23       has confirmed it for me -- is that we could

        24       pass a bill that we think is just about DNA

        25       evidence, which we think is a win for


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         1       everyone, that because it's not written

         2       correctly or has sections in it that need to

         3       be clarified, we could actually be doing

         4       future harm to the ability in the State of

         5       New York to allow people who have been

         6       wrongfully convicted to ever have their day in

         7       court for appeal.

         8                  So this is a dangerous mistake in

         9       the bill.  And it can be resolved.  There is

        10       no question it could be resolved.  It could be

        11       resolved without continued delays or

        12       dysfunction to the Legislature.

        13                  I support the amendment -- thank

        14       you, Senator Schneiderman -- and to save time

        15       later, I'll vote against the bill for that

        16       same reason.

        17                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    The

        19       question is on the amendment.  Senators in

        20       agreement again please signify by raising your

        21       hand.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

        23       agreement are Senators Adams, Breslin, Connor,

        24       Diaz, Dilan, Duane, Gonzalez,

        25       Hassell-Thompson, Huntley, L. Krueger,


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         1       Montgomery, Oppenheimer, Parker, Perkins,

         2       Sabini, Sampson, Savino, Schneiderman,

         3       Serrano, Smith, Stavisky, Stewart-Cousins and

         4       Thompson.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    The

         6       amendment is not agreed to.

         7                  On the bill.  Is there any Senator

         8       wishing to be heard on the bill?

         9                  Senator Duane.

        10                  SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you,

        11       Mr. President.

        12                  DNA technology is or can be both a

        13       blessing and a curse.  If we expand the DNA

        14       database too quickly, then New York State is

        15       going to encounter serious problems in

        16       maintaining and utilizing the database

        17       effectively.  And this could lead to results

        18       diametrically opposite of what it is that

        19       we're trying to achieve here today.

        20                  You know, DNA experts and

        21       technicians, those who work in crime labs and

        22       law enforcement agencies in New York State are

        23       already stretching their resources to the max.

        24       There's a tremendous backlog now in DNA labs

        25       across New York State.  In 2006, the New York


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         1       State Commission on Investigation reported

         2       that -- and I'm quoting from them --

         3       "Representatives of most of the state's

         4       forensic laboratories express frustration

         5       regarding the lack of funds available to

         6       higher trained qualified forensic analysts."

         7                  District Attorney David Soares has

         8       said on the record that mounting caseloads are

         9       causing delays and problems, and his office

        10       has been flooded with cases since the

        11       expansion of the DNA database.  And he is

        12       probably one of the only ones who's willing to

        13       be honest about it, because we know that other

        14       district attorneys' offices are having

        15       tremendous problems because they are not

        16       coming up with the results in a timely manner.

        17                  There are many, many unanswered

        18       questions regarding expanding the DNA

        19       database.  We don't really have proper

        20       procedures in place for crime lab operations.

        21       And let's face it, the backlogs which will

        22       happen because of further expansion, you know,

        23       combined with additional processing time,

        24       which is already way too long, is going to

        25       increase.  And we still don't have procedures


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         1       in place on the proper storage and disposal of

         2       DNA samples that we already have that have

         3       come from convicted and nonconvicted people.

         4                  You know, last year -- and I

         5       protested about this -- the State Legislature

         6       expand the DNA database hugely.  Even though

         7       there are already problems, we added even more

         8       to it.  And all of the questions that I and

         9       others have never got answered.

        10                  So I would urge my colleagues not

        11       to rush into a further expansion before we

        12       really find out what we're doing, through

        13       hearings with law enforcement personnel and of

        14       course those who represent the innocents, but

        15       especially people that run the crime labs,

        16       people that run what I would call rogue DNA

        17       databases, and other people in law

        18       enforcement.

        19                  You know, there is evidence also

        20       already that shows that expanding the DNA

        21       database doesn't increase the amount of cold

        22       kits leading to convictions.  And I think

        23       allegedly that's what people are most

        24       interested in doing.  I mean even if you don't

        25       care about exonerating innocent people,


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         1       chances are -- and I think we all agree to

         2       this -- that we care about the number of cold

         3       hits that you get.

         4                  And our own state DCJS says that

         5       while there was an increase in cold hits after

         6       1999, subsequent expansion saw a diminished

         7       number of cold hits.  And we don't even know

         8       what happened as a result of what we did last

         9       year.

        10                  So shouldn't we be focusing instead

        11       on increased spending on training of personnel

        12       and hiring of trained personnel to deal with

        13       the database, the DNA database that we already

        14       have, and other things that crime labs already

        15       have?  I mean, in some cases fingerprint

        16       evidence is not even being handled and used

        17       properly.

        18                  You know, I'm not here to question

        19       the value or the need for DNA technology.  It

        20       certainly has produced amazing results.  But

        21       what we don't want to do is diminish the

        22       possibility of continuing to have good

        23       results.  The way to do that is to expand the

        24       database responsibly.

        25                  I know it sounds good in theory,


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         1       you know, and it's an easy way to kind of just

         2       say, oh, you know, we're going to expand the

         3       DNA database and we're going to catch more bad

         4       guys.  But that's simply not the case.  And

         5       we're not ready to make that the case.

         6                  I really urge my colleagues to use

         7       prudence when we consider expanding the DNA

         8       database and use our resources more prudently

         9       for training more staff, for hiring more

        10       trained staff on the full range of evidence,

        11       including DNA, of course.  That's the better

        12       way to capture the bad guys and not to

        13       continue to needlessly incarcerate the

        14       innocent.

        15                  So I urge my colleagues to vote no

        16       until and unless we actually deal with the DNA

        17       that we presently have in a prudent and

        18       responsible manner.

        19                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Any

        21       other Senator wishing to be heard?

        22                  Senator Schneiderman.

        23                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

        24       Mr. President.  Very briefly on the bill.

        25                  I appreciate this debate.  I


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         1       believe, based on our discussion with the

         2       Governor and the Assembly earlier today, we

         3       will pass a DNA database bill that expands

         4       both the requirements for cataloging and

         5       preservation and the scope of the database

         6       itself.

         7                  My disagreement with this is

         8       somewhat narrower than that of Senator Duane,

         9       who has been leading the effort to call for

        10       caution in the expansion of the database here

        11       for many years.  My concern really is that if

        12       we have the proper guidelines and we have the

        13       proper protections for the innocent and we

        14       have the proper privacy protections for people

        15       whose DNA is in the system, then I really do

        16       favor broad expansion.

        17                  I think DNA -- and a lot of people

        18       lose track of this.  Letting someone out

        19       because we discover their DNA is not being

        20       soft on crime.  That is letting an innocent

        21       person out.  And that enables us to catch the

        22       guilty person.  So this is a tough-on-crime

        23       provision to allow innocent people every

        24       opportunity to demonstrate they did not commit

        25       a crime.


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         1                  My only concern with this bill is

         2       this -- and again, I won't call it a poison

         3       pill, but this sort of stowaway provision

         4       related to 440.

         5                  And, Senator Krueger, to amplify my

         6       response to your question, one of the other

         7       things I believe, under my reading of this

         8       bill, that section would do is to prevent

         9       defendants -- after conviction, so prevent

        10       prisoners -- from seeking relief even if the

        11       Court of Appeals changed the rules, discovered

        12       that something in the procedures under which

        13       they were convicted was done improperly, and

        14       that prospectively that shouldn't be done

        15       anymore.  Currently that's the section of law

        16       that allows people to go back in and challenge

        17       their conviction to seek relief.

        18                  I think it needs a little more

        19       work.  I think that provision needs to come

        20       out.  But I am absolutely committed to working

        21       with the Governor.  And I wish everyone had

        22       been downstairs today to watch him in the

        23       meeting.  He seems to listen to us.  It was a

        24       back-and-forth the kind of which I've frankly

        25       never had in this house, where we were


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         1       actually talking about revisiting issues and

         2       renegotiating and redrafting as we went.

         3                  I am going to be voting against

         4       this bill somewhat reluctantly, because I

         5       think the overall vision is the vision we need

         6       to follow.  I look forward to voting yes on

         7       another bill soon this session.

         8                  Thank you, Mr. President.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        10       Skelos, to close debate.

        11                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Thank you,

        12       Mr. President.

        13                  I want to point out since the last

        14       expansion of the DNA database there have been

        15       112 individuals that have been convicted

        16       because of that expansion.

        17                  I also believe by expanding the DNA

        18       database to include all crimes that you will

        19       also see individuals who have been incorrectly

        20       convicted of crimes a better chance of finding

        21       them innocent.  And certainly all of us

        22       believe that a person who's unjustly convicted

        23       of a crime and goes to jail, the more evidence

        24       that we can gather to make sure that they are

        25       eventually exonerated is the right way to go.


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         1                  And certainly this legislation, by

         2       expanding the DNA database, I think will put

         3       more people in jail that deserve to be in

         4       jail.  And in the event somebody is wrongfully

         5       convicted, it will help exonerate them.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Debate

         7       is closed.

         8                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

         9                  Read the last section.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 20.  This

        11       act shall take effect November 1, 2007.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Call

        13       the roll.

        14                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        16       DeFrancisco, to explain his vote.

        17                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes, I

        18       think everything has been said that ought to

        19       be said on the merits of this, and I'm going

        20       to vote for it.

        21                  I just wanted to mention, very

        22       briefly, the procedure.  Senator Schneiderman

        23       mentioned about this bifurcated system that

        24       we're under right now where there was a

        25       leaders' meeting with special guests at the


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         1       meeting to discuss some of this legislation.

         2                  I don't remember that being any

         3       part of any reform agenda.  It just seems to

         4       me that the way to legislate and the proper

         5       way to reform the system is for each house to

         6       do a bill and then start conference committees

         7       between the Legislature and then send the bill

         8       to the Governor for either his approval or his

         9       veto power.  Of course he would be involved in

        10       providing any input to the Legislature as we

        11       do our deliberations.

        12                  But this -- I don't know if it's

        13       called a reform or what it's called, to have

        14       public, televised meetings of certain people

        15       to discuss legislation before it's even

        16       considered by either house of the Legislature,

        17       I don't think that's healthy, I don't think

        18       that's reform.

        19                  I think we should go back to what

        20       should be a system -- the best system, namely,

        21       each house pass their bill and then resolve

        22       their differences and then send a bill to the

        23       Governor.  I think that's the way government

        24       should operate.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator


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         1       Robach, to explain his vote.

         2                  SENATOR ROBACH:    Yes,

         3       Mr. President.  I rise to support this.

         4                  And I guess just off the process

         5       and everything else, I want to talk about the

         6       merits of this a little bit, having worked in

         7       the criminal justice system before coming to

         8       the Legislature, and working with a lot of

         9       crime victims groups -- Adam Walsh Center for

        10       Missing and Exploited Children -- as well as

        11       people often on the defense side of this.

        12                  This is one of those rare

        13       opportunities where I really think we do have

        14       the quintessential win-win situation.  As has

        15       been said before, we cannot only use today's

        16       technology to convict the guilty but we can

        17       also use it to exonerate the innocents.

        18                  And while some very good points

        19       have been brought up, I think what strikes me

        20       is if you go back several years before we used

        21       any DNA, those people did not have an

        22       opportunity either way for guilt or innocence.

        23       This is only going to give that opportunity to

        24       be larger.

        25                  So I actually applaud the Governor


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         1       for his sense of urgency on using today's

         2       technology to address both population groups,

         3       both the guilty and the innocent.

         4                  And let's be candid, the holdup on

         5       this historically has been the Assembly, the

         6       house I came from.  And I'm hopeful through

         7       whatever process we use, whether it's

         8       negotiations, one-on-one, or conference

         9       committees, whether it's fine-tuning or not,

        10       that the Governor will be able to get the

        11       Assembly to come on board to do something to

        12       better protect New York's people.  Because

        13       clearly this house, which has passed these

        14       bills for four years, has not been able to

        15       have that effect on the merits and gotten the

        16       Assembly to move.

        17                  So I do think as far as protection

        18       goes, across the board for New Yorkers, this

        19       is a good step.  And I'm happy to cast my vote

        20       in the affirmative.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        22       Robach in the affirmative.

        23                  Senator Sabini, to explain his

        24       vote.

        25                  SENATOR SABINI:    Mr. President,


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         1       I'm going to be voting in the affirmative as

         2       well.

         3                  I just wanted to highlight the

         4       remarks that were made a little earlier about

         5       process, about conference committees and how

         6       easy it is to get an agreement here.  Gee,

         7       I've been here for five years and I don't

         8       recall it being so easy.  I've only seen about

         9       three conference committees since I've been

        10       here.  And under the prior administration I

        11       did not see a lot of agreements being reached

        12       in the last four years.

        13                  In the last four months here, we've

        14       had agreements on workers' comp and civil

        15       confinement.  We're going to hear about one on

        16       human trafficking.

        17                  I think that any device we do to

        18       get some consensus going, whether it's a

        19       conference committee, a quiz show or whatever

        20       you want to call it, I think is a good thing.

        21       And I think the Governor has shown some

        22       leadership on these issues.  So in passing his

        23       bill, I don't think we should criticize the

        24       road we got -- how we got there.  I think we

        25       got there and we should celebrate the fact


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         1       that we're getting there.

         2                  And if it requires a public

         3       knocking of heads, I think, you know, it

         4       should be done.  Because we really hadn't seen

         5       a lot of progress on a lot of issues up till

         6       now.

         7                  And, you know, it may not have been

         8       an official part of the reform agenda, but I

         9       think we all agree -- and I know all of you

        10       agree when it comes to election time -- that

        11       changes are needed in this town.

        12                  So I think this is a change for the

        13       better, and I'm voting aye.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        15       Sabini in the affirmative.

        16                  Announce the results.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

        18       the negative on Calendar Number 1173 are

        19       Senators Adams, Duane, Gonzalez,

        20       Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, Montgomery,

        21       Parker, Perkins and Schneiderman.

        22                  Ayes, 52.  Nays, 9.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    The

        24       bill is passed.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number


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         1       1174, by Senator Lanza, Senate Print 5888, an

         2       act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

         3       establishing the advisory council on

         4       interactive media and youth violence.

         5                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:

         6       Explanation.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:

         8       Explanation, Senator Lanza.

         9                  SENATOR LANZA:    Yes,

        10       Mr. President.

        11                  You know, we often talk about ways

        12       to address criminal conduct after the fact.

        13       This is a measure that would address one of

        14       the growing influences in our society which

        15       often tragically leads people, especially

        16       children, to engage in criminally violent

        17       conduct.

        18                  We hear about the culture of

        19       violence that exists and the tragic

        20       consequences that it has for our children and

        21       for society.  And we also know through many

        22       studies that violent behavior is learned, and

        23       the implication there is that it is taught.

        24                  And over the years we see, through

        25       advancements in technology, video games


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         1       becoming more virtually real, more violent,

         2       and more, I believe, damaging to the youth in

         3       our society.

         4                  The emotions and behaviors of our

         5       young children are quite often affected and

         6       shaped by these virtual reality video games.

         7       And I think it's imperative that we find a way

         8       to break that chain and to find a way to

         9       prevent these games from fueling this violent

        10       behavior.

        11                  You know, a couple of weeks ago

        12       when we talked about and I proposed this

        13       legislation, I made a reference to the

        14       Virginia Tech mass murder.  And it raised a

        15       number of eyebrows.  And people talked about

        16       whether or not there really was a correlation.

        17       And only a couple of days ago we found and

        18       learned that in the mind of at least one

        19       twisted person, there was a correlation.

        20       Because over the Internet you can now, sadly,

        21       download a game known as V Tech Rampage, where

        22       the goal of the game is to act out the events

        23       of that day, to murder students, to avoid the

        24       police, and then to kill yourself.

        25                  I'm a person who believes that


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         1       there are certain things in life that you

         2       don't make light of and you don't turn into a

         3       game.  People said, Well, that's an isolated

         4       sort of event.  We've got Grand Theft Auto 4

         5       soon to be released, which makes light and

         6       turns into a game the murdering of a New York

         7       City police officer.  I think that's wrong.  I

         8       don't think we ought to be teaching that to

         9       our children.  I don't think we ought to be

        10       exposing our children to that sort of thing,

        11       which clearly desensitizes them to violence.

        12                  So this measure would do a number

        13       of things.  It would create an advisory

        14       council on media entertainment and youth

        15       violence to review recommendations on the

        16       effectiveness of the Entertainment Software

        17       Ratings Board.  It's a voluntary system right

        18       now, which we all know doesn't work.

        19                  It would further require that

        20       ratings be mandatorily placed on all video

        21       games sold or presented on the Internet in the

        22       state of New York.

        23                  It would create a parent-teacher

        24       antiviolence awareness program, because at the

        25       root of this measure is providing our parents


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         1       with the information that they need to

         2       properly exercise parental control.  When you

         3       talk to parents, many of them have missed the

         4       virtual jump in technology that has occurred

         5       over the last five years.  When you show them

         6       actually what's on these games that they're

         7       purchasing for their children, they're

         8       shocked.  They can't believe the virtual

         9       nature of the reality, the way with which the

        10       technology makes so real and so interactive

        11       these violent games.

        12                  And finally, it would provide for a

        13       fund in order to create those advisory

        14       councils and provide for that awareness.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Thank

        16       you, Senator Lanza.

        17                  Senator Hassell-Thompson.

        18                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

        19       you, Mr. President.  Would the sponsor yield

        20       for a few questions?

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        22       Lanza, will you yield?

        23                  SENATOR LANZA:    Yes.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        25       Hassell-Thompson.


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         1                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

         2       you.

         3                  Through you, Mr. President.

         4       Senator Lanza, please understand the nature of

         5       this question, because it's really very

         6       important.  It's not flippant, and it's not

         7       disrespectful.  But what is your legislative

         8       intent in passing this bill?

         9                  SENATOR LANZA:    My legislative

        10       intent is to find a way to prevent these

        11       virtual realities that are being marketed and

        12       presented to our children as games, which

        13       teach children that it's okay to assassinate

        14       New York police officers, which say and make

        15       light of and turn into a game the horrible

        16       mass murder that occurred in Virginia Tech --

        17       to somehow find a way to break that chain and

        18       prevent these games from having what I believe

        19       to be the detrimental effect that they have on

        20       your youth.

        21                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:

        22       Through you, Mr. President, if the sponsor

        23       will continue to yield.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        25       Lanza, will you continue to yield?


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         1                  SENATOR LANZA:    Yes.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         3       Hassell-Thompson.

         4                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

         5       you.

         6                  Senator Lanza, have you been in

         7       discussion with the Majority counsel that has

         8       been working with the five-way staff on this

         9       bill --

        10                  SENATOR LANZA:    I have.

        11                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    -- on

        12       the Governor's program bill?

        13                  SENATOR LANZA:    I have.

        14                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:

        15       Through you, Mr. President.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        17       Lanza, will you continue to yield?

        18                  SENATOR LANZA:    Yes.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        20       Hassell-Thompson.

        21                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Were

        22       you aware that in citing certain business laws

        23       and others that -- to present the bill in the

        24       manner in which you have chosen to do so has

        25       been struck down by every state as being


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         1       unconstitutional?

         2                  SENATOR LANZA:    Through you,

         3       Mr. President, that is not true.  Nowhere have

         4       constitutional protections been evoked to

         5       prevent states from creating advisory

         6       councils.  Nowhere have constitutional

         7       protections been evoked to prevent states from

         8       creating parent-teacher antiviolence awareness

         9       programs.  Nowhere have constitutional

        10       safeguards been evoked to prevent states from

        11       creating funds to educate parents, to educate

        12       children, to stop this chain of violence and

        13       the poisoning of the minds of children.

        14                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:

        15       Through you, Mr. President.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        17       Lanza, will you continue to yield?

        18                  SENATOR LANZA:    Yes.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        20       Hassell-Thompson.

        21                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    So

        22       what you're telling this body is that that's

        23       the extent of your bill?

        24                  SENATOR LANZA:    No, the bill goes

        25       further.  It would require that labels are


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         1       mandatorily placed on bills.

         2                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Ah.

         3       Through you, Mr. President.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         5       Lanza, will you continue to yield?

         6                  SENATOR LANZA:    Yes.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         8       Hassell-Thompson.

         9                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    What

        10       other factors within the bill besides rating

        11       does the bill ask for?

        12                  SENATOR LANZA:    I don't

        13       understand the question, Mr. President.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Can you

        15       clarify the question, Senator

        16       Hassell-Thompson?

        17                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    You

        18       said that the bill goes further and that in

        19       the furtherance of the language you are asking

        20       for such games to be rated and some other

        21       issues.  I'm just asking, what other aspects

        22       are you requesting in the bill?

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        24       Lanza.

        25                  SENATOR LANZA:    Mr. President,


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         1       through you.  That manufacturers are required

         2       to place ratings on games indicating the

         3       violent or mature content of these games.  And

         4       that, further, that fines would be imposed to

         5       retailers who do not abide by those

         6       provisions.

         7                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:

         8       Through you, Mr. President.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        10       Lanza, will you continue to yield?

        11                  SENATOR LANZA:    Yes,

        12       Mr. President.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        14       Hassell-Thompson.

        15                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

        16       you, Mr. President.

        17                  And that particular language,

        18       counsel has not advised you that that's the

        19       very specific kind of language that has in

        20       fact caused these bills to be struck down?

        21       Because, see, I really wasn't speaking to the

        22       advisory councils, but I'm speaking to the

        23       language in the business law, that changes the

        24       business law and commerce law, and some of the

        25       aspects that are unconstitutional.


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         1                  SENATOR LANZA:    Mr. President,

         2       well, you were speaking to the entire bill, I

         3       presume, Senator, and that's why I wanted to

         4       point out the many provisions which exist in

         5       this bill, many of which I believe would sail

         6       free of any constitutional objections.

         7                  Are there other issues with respect

         8       to constitutionally protected speech with

         9       respect to this issue?  Certainly.  But I

        10       don't believe that we ought to hide and sit on

        11       our hands and not attempt in this state to

        12       address this very important issue.  We are

        13       attempting to do it in a way that is different

        14       from other provisions that have been presented

        15       throughout the states.

        16                  But this is a different way, and I

        17       believe that we ought to not sit on our hands.

        18       I believe that we ought to see if there's

        19       anything that we can do.  Because at the end

        20       of the day, it's important that we protect our

        21       children.  It's important, rather than come

        22       here and try to craft laws to mop up after

        23       there's been a murder, after another child has

        24       been led down the trail of violence, that we

        25       do something before that happens, that we try


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         1       to affect the root cause of those behaviors.

         2                  You know, it's not something that

         3       we find foreign to require that there is

         4       labeling on food that's sold in this state, so

         5       that families and people can make decisions

         6       about whether or not there's something in that

         7       food that's bad for them before they either

         8       ingest it or they give it to their children.

         9       We've got no problem making sure that we

        10       prevent drug dealers from getting near our

        11       kids at schools, because we know if they use

        12       those drugs, it's going to harm them

        13       physically.

        14                  I suggest to you that many of these

        15       games are poisoning the minds of our children,

        16       with tragic consequence.  So rather than sit

        17       back and say, Well, other states have tried

        18       and failed, we should walk away from the

        19       problem, I say we have a responsibility in

        20       this state to address the problem head-on and

        21       do all we can to see whether or not we can

        22       help our children, help our parents educate

        23       them, to make sure that another child doesn't

        24       meet with this sort of tragic consequence that

        25       we far too often read about in the papers


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         1       every day.

         2                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:

         3       Through you, Mr. President, would the sponsor

         4       continue to yield?

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         6       Lanza, will you continue to yield?

         7                  SENATOR LANZA:    Yes.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         9       Hassell-Thompson.

        10                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

        11       you, Mr. President.

        12                  Senator Lanza, can you tell me,

        13       since you denied that my statement was

        14       correct, can you tell me any state that has in

        15       fact passed language that has allowed

        16       ratings -- and by the way, the labeling of

        17       food is not protected language.  There is a

        18       difference.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        20       Lanza.

        21                  SENATOR LANZA:    Yes, I'm well

        22       aware of that, Senator.  I was, by analogy,

        23       talking about the measures that we take as a

        24       society to protect ourselves and to provide

        25       information so that we can make more educated


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         1       decisions, especially when it comes to

         2       decisions as they relate to children.

         3                  I, Senator, was elected to

         4       represent the 24th Senate District, which

         5       happens to be in the State of New York.  So

         6       I'm not exact sure what the relevance of

         7       bringing up what other states -- all of which

         8       I'm not completely familiar with -- has to do

         9       with whether or not we as body in this state

        10       should make an attempt to protect our children

        11       from the detrimental effects that these

        12       increasingly violent video games have upon

        13       them.

        14                  And every study has demonstrated

        15       that the more you're exposed to violence, the

        16       more likely you are to engage in violence.

        17       Studies have also demonstrated that the more

        18       real, the more real the demonstration of

        19       violence is, the more likely you are to engage

        20       in violence.

        21                  And let's not forget that when

        22       children engage in violence not only do they

        23       victimize others in society, but they become

        24       the victims of their own violence and actions.

        25                  And clearly, clearly Senator


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         1       Leiberman in the U.S. Senate took a leadership

         2       role nationally on this issue more than five

         3       years ago.  Since he has done that, if you

         4       haven't taken a look at video games today, you

         5       might be shocked to find out the realism, to

         6       see the realism and the violence and the

         7       explicitness which exists in these games.  And

         8       many times parents are unaware of that fact

         9       when they go out and purchase these games.

        10                  So in broad strokes this measure

        11       would do nothing more, nothing more, Senator,

        12       than provide parents with the information.

        13       Surely you can have no problem with providing

        14       parent with information about what their

        15       children are being exposed to.

        16                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Mr.

        17       President, on the bill.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        19       Hassell-Thompson, on the bill.

        20                  SENATOR FARLEY:    Good job,

        21       Andrew.

        22                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

        23       you, Mr. President.

        24                  I'd like to be able to say, Senator

        25       Farley, that he's done a good job, but I


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         1       can't.  And the reason that I cannot is --

         2       see, I have mother's ears and a grandmother's

         3       heart.  So I heard you.

         4                  One of the things that becomes

         5       important, Senator Lanza, is that I, like you,

         6       want this bill to pass.  But I have sat in the

         7       five-way meetings and I have been briefed

         8       every day by staff as we have talked about

         9       what kind of language is protected language.

        10       I went to the meeting requesting ratings.  I

        11       am a parent and a grandparent who likes to

        12       know what kinds of things children are

        13       reading, what kind of games children are being

        14       exposed to.

        15                  So you don't have to chide me to be

        16       able to understand that.  My questions are

        17       important because part of what we have an

        18       obligation to do if we want to see our bills

        19       passed is to do so in a way that does not

        20       infringe on the constitutional rights of the

        21       people who do business.

        22                  Now, do I like it?  No.  Do I have

        23       an obligation to protect it?  We all do.  My

        24       questions had everything to do with your

        25       understanding of not only how this bill is


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         1       crafted but the fact that, taken into court,

         2       the State of New York then would be liable, if

         3       they win the lawsuit, if it is struck down.

         4                  And so when we begin to talk about

         5       where we should put -- yes, check with your

         6       attorney.  He will tell you that.  And I have

         7       the literature that will help you to

         8       understand that a part of what we have an

         9       obligation to do is to be protective of the

        10       rights of the people for whom we are

        11       responsible for.

        12                  We are responsible to make sure

        13       that while we feel passionately -- and we do,

        14       we feel very passionately about this issue.

        15       My concern was about presumptive defense.

        16       Presumptive defense says that, well, you can't

        17       presume that all levels of this game have

        18       violence.  Well, I'm here to tell you that

        19       having watched my nephews play some of these

        20       games, it takes skill to go from one level to

        21       the next.  And the lower and deeper into the

        22       game you go, the more violent the acts are.

        23                  So I'm not at all surprised, I am

        24       not at all amazed at the level of violence and

        25       degradation that are involved in these games.


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         1                  Not only that, I was prepared, if I

         2       had spoken today at the six-way meeting with

         3       the Governor, to support your efforts for this

         4       committee.  Trust me.  I've read your bill.  I

         5       read it carefully.  I don't want to see us

         6       lose a very genuine opportunity to do

         7       something appropriate and right for the

         8       families and the children of the State of

         9       New York.  And I want us to be a model across

        10       this country.

        11                  And I've fought with the Governor's

        12       people, but they have made the bill very

        13       narrow in the Governor's bill.  And I

        14       understand your frustration.  But what you

        15       have done, if you're aware, by creating this

        16       committee, some of the language that we have

        17       all talked about being upset about, the

        18       obscenity against women, the way in which

        19       women are portrayed and the way in which

        20       violence is portrayed, that committee can

        21       speak to this language in a way that the bill

        22       can't.

        23                  So what I'm trying to get you to

        24       do -- what I'm trying to get you to do,

        25       Senator Lanza, is to understand that I'm not


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         1       here to destroy your bill, I'm here to support

         2       your bill.  I'm here to support you in your

         3       efforts to make sure that this bill is passed.

         4       I've already begun to have dialogue with my

         5       colleagues in the Assembly to make sure that

         6       bill does not become something that gets lost

         7       and that does not get passed.  But I want to

         8       be sure that we understand that in order to do

         9       that, we cannot use infringement --

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        11       Lanza, why do you rise?

        12                  SENATOR LANZA:    Will the Senator

        13       yield for a question?

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        15       Hassell-Thompson, will you yield for a

        16       question?

        17                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:

        18       Certainly.

        19                  SENATOR LANZA:    Senator, aside

        20       from the provision in the measure that would

        21       require a mandatory rating system on the

        22       games, do you support every other provision?

        23                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Every

        24       other aspect of your bill.

        25                  SENATOR LANZA:    Would the Senator


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         1       continue to yield?

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Will

         3       you continue to yield, Senator

         4       Hassell-Thompson?

         5                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    I

         6       continue to yield, Mr. President.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         8       Lanza.

         9                  SENATOR LANZA:    Senator, are you

        10       further aware that if there were a

        11       constitutional challenge to this bill, that

        12       potentially only that portion of the bill

        13       which is deemed to be unconstitutional would

        14       be struck down and we'd be left with all the

        15       other measures that you support?

        16                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Yes, I

        17       am aware of that.  But I also know that we

        18       would be liable for the attorney's fees and

        19       the costs to the State of New York.

        20                  SENATOR LANZA:    Would the Senator

        21       continue to yield?

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        23       Hassell-Thompson, will you continue to yield?

        24                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Yes,

        25       Mr. President, I will continue to yield.


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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         2       Lanza.

         3                  SENATOR LANZA:    Senator, given

         4       that, though, don't you think it's worth a

         5       shot to do something different here in

         6       New York and really try to get at the heart of

         7       this problem?  I learned a long time ago in

         8       law school from my constitutional law

         9       professor, who served in President Kennedy's

        10       administration, that there's only one thing

        11       you need to know about constitutional law and

        12       what is constitutional, and that's how to

        13       count to five.

        14                  So, Senator, we don't know how a

        15       challenge to this bill would be reviewed by

        16       the Supreme Court in the event that one is

        17       even made.

        18                  So again, my question to you is

        19       isn't it worth a shot, shouldn't we do all we

        20       can to make sure we really address the heart

        21       of this issue as opposed to dancing around the

        22       fringe?

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        24       Hassell-Thompson.

        25                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Mr.


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         1       President, my response to you, Senator Lanza,

         2       has to be that while I'm in agreement, I don't

         3       think that we should be imprudent in terms of

         4       how we do that.

         5                  If we knowingly can change a

         6       portion of the bill that causes infringement,

         7       what would be the real harm in us retracting

         8       that portion if the rest of the bill achieves

         9       the goal that we want, that both of us want to

        10       see happen?

        11                  SENATOR LANZA:    Will the Senator

        12       continue to yield?

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        14       Hassell-Thompson, will you continue to yield?

        15                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:

        16       Certainly, Mr. President, I will continue to

        17       yield.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        19       Lanza.

        20                  SENATOR LANZA:    Senator, when you

        21       claim infringement, that is you speaking,

        22       isn't it?  There's no court decision that

        23       would specifically say that this bill would

        24       represent an infringement upon some

        25       constitutionally protected right.


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         1                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:

         2       Through you, Mr. President, the answer to your

         3       question is that I have a whole sheet of every

         4       state that has struck down this based on

         5       constitutionality.  There is no portion of

         6       what I said today that was my opinion.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         8       Lanza.

         9                  SENATOR LANZA:    Would the Senator

        10       continue to yield?

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        12       Hassell-Thompson, will you continue to yield?

        13                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Yes,

        14       Mr. President, I will continue to yield.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        16       Lanza.

        17                  SENATOR LANZA:    This is my last

        18       question, Senator.  And it's almost

        19       rhetorical, but I would like a response.  You

        20       are aware that this provision in this state

        21       has not only not been challenged but has not

        22       been struck down by any court?

        23                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:

        24       Because it's never been passed, Senator Lanza.

        25       That's the only reason.


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         1                  SENATOR LANZA:    I take it back,

         2       Mr. President.  Would the Senator yield to one

         3       more question?

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         5       Hassell-Thompson, will you yield --

         6                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    I will

         7       yield to as many questions as you'd like,

         8       Senator.  Especially if I can change your

         9       mind.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        11       Hassell-Thompson continues to yield.

        12                  SENATOR LANZA:    In light of that

        13       response, I would ask one more time, isn't it

        14       worth, given what's at stake, given the fact

        15       that we know our children are being poisoned

        16       by these violent games -- and we know how it

        17       all ends.  We read about it on the front page

        18       of the paper.  We see it on the nightly news.

        19       We know how it ends.  It ends horribly.  Isn't

        20       it therefore worth a shot in this state at

        21       this time?

        22                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:

        23       Senator Lanza -- through you, Mr. President --

        24       I will say to you that your insistence that

        25       you pass this bill with the language that


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         1       knowingly is infringement is egotistical on

         2       your part.

         3                  You refuse to believe and accept

         4       that if -- the slightest change to this bill

         5       will not only get the total support of this

         6       house but of the Assembly if you are willing

         7       to concede that there is an error in the bill.

         8                  If you choose not to do that, then

         9       you are knowingly putting something forward

        10       that will put this state in a position where

        11       it will incur legal fees.  Because I can tell

        12       you, I also have a list of every association

        13       that is waiting for you to pass this bill so

        14       that they can do as they have done in other

        15       states around this country:  Take you to

        16       court.

        17                  And so therefore I believe that

        18       your passion is real, your cause is noble, but

        19       your course is irresponsible.

        20                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Thank

        22       you, Senator Hassell-Thompson.

        23                  Is there any other Senator wishing

        24       to be heard?

        25                  Senator Parker.


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         1                  SENATOR PARKER:    Thank you very

         2       much, Mr. President.  On the bill.

         3                  I like the intention of this bill.

         4       And, Senator Lanza, let me congratulate you

         5       and thank you for kind of raising this bill

         6       for part of the debate.

         7                  I unfortunately don't feel like I

         8       can vote for this, and it's for very different

         9       reasons than Senator Hassell-Thompson or

        10       others who may have problems with the

        11       constitutionality, which I think is part of

        12       it.

        13                  I think that today that this body

        14       is heading down a slippery slope and a

        15       slippery slope that leads us into censorship

        16       into all types of areas.  That today we're

        17       talking about video games, but we really can

        18       be in another place very, very quickly.

        19                  And so I'm not going to vote for

        20       this bill, or I'm not going to vote

        21       affirmatively for this bill.  And I guess I

        22       know that we're attempting to protect

        23       children.  I know you have a family and you're

        24       trying to protect your children.  And I think

        25       a lot of people here, including Senator


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         1       Hassell-Thompson, who cares about this, is

         2       trying to protect her grandchildren and other

         3       families and other children.

         4                  But this I think this bill is an

         5       attempt to legislate morality.  And I don't

         6       think that that's the place for this

         7       Legislature or any Legislature anywhere.  I

         8       think at the point that we abdicate parental

         9       responsibility, that we're making a huge

        10       mistake.  I think that there are a lot of

        11       thing that we don't like that happen in

        12       society, but I think that this is not the way

        13       that we go about it.

        14                  I think that video games fall into

        15       a realm that is no different than other types

        16       of entertainment media.  I think we do this

        17       going to then start happening to censor TV and

        18       radio and books and CDs, DVDs, the Internet,

        19       Hollywood, network news.  I mean, at what

        20       point do we stop with these images?

        21                  And then the question is, when you

        22       start developing these panels, my question is

        23       who's on these panels and who gets to pick

        24       them?  And I'm asking that rhetorically,

        25       because the bill actually deals with that.


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         1       But I'm asking it because a lot of group that

         2       I'm concerned about are not necessarily going

         3       to be represented in the same way that

         4       African-Americans and Latinos in particular

         5       don't get represented on a host of panels and

         6       boards and commissions and authorities

         7       throughout this state and throughout this

         8       country.  And this becomes a problem.

         9                  And just to illustrate this, you

        10       know, kind of bear with me when I talk about

        11       this for a second.  Because in the wake of the

        12       Don Imus problems, the conversation then

        13       turned to, well, what do we do to censor rap

        14       music, because Don Imus is affected by rap

        15       music.  And he gets these terms and the way he

        16       thinks about this stuff from rap music, so we

        17       now need to censor the stories that primarily

        18       young African-American men are telling to the

        19       world about their experience in the world from

        20       their perspective.  Whether you agree or

        21       disagree.  In the same way that some of us may

        22       or may not like lots of other things in

        23       stories of other -- and music and movies and

        24       all kinds of things.

        25                  But we didn't talk about the fact


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         1       that the primary images that we see in rap

         2       music and the hip hop culture come out of the

         3       dominant culture.  And in fact, when we start

         4       talking about, you know, half of the rappers

         5       out there, they get their names and the name

         6       of their crews from real-life stuff.  Right?

         7       You got Gotti coming from John Gotti.  You got

         8       Murder, Inc. coming from a group of gangsters,

         9       Mafia gangsters.  You got the Wu-Tang Clan who

        10       gets their images from Chinese epics about

        11       martial arts.  Right?

        12                  I mean, you can go on and on about

        13       where these names -- you have Jay-Z or

        14       Roc-A-Fella getting their name from, you know,

        15       our former Governor.  Right?  And other robber

        16       barons who participated in building this

        17       country.  And that's where they get their

        18       notions about the world.  Pablo Escobar.

        19       Right?  Nas called himself Nas Escobar.

        20                  You know, you have a lot of these

        21       images coming directly from day-to-day things

        22       that young people in fact are engaging in the

        23       news and in television.

        24                  And by and large, every time

        25       there's a cultural attack, an attack on


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         1       morality, as much as things may be happening

         2       in other communities, I've never seen in a

         3       white Catholic priest taking heavy metal CDs

         4       and putting them in the street and rolling

         5       over them with a steamroller the way Calvin

         6       Butts did with hip hop music back in the early

         7       '90s.  Some of you all forgot about that.

         8       Right?  We don't see that in other places, but

         9       we have seen them here.

        10                  Let me go back.  There was a group

        11       called N.W.A., right, headed by Easy E.

        12       Right?  Niggers With Attitude, right, N.W.A.

        13       They had a song called "F--- the Police."  And

        14       in that song they talked about the conflict

        15       that African-American young men have with

        16       police every day and essentially said, you

        17       know, we like to do violence to them the way

        18       they inflict on our community.  Police

        19       departments were enraged.  And they talked

        20       about this and they banned the song, and it

        21       was a big deal.

        22                  The same year a movie came out by a

        23       guy named, oh, Schwarzenegger called

        24       "Terminator."  And in that same year, in the

        25       "Terminator" movie, Arnold Schwarzenegger


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         1       walked into a police precinct and killed every

         2       single -- must have been 300 cops he killed.

         3       Not a word.  Just like this room.  Not a word.

         4                  And in fact, well, Easy E goes on

         5       and dies of AIDS, and Schwarzenegger is now,

         6       what, governor of the largest state in the

         7       country.  I mean, you know, these kind of

         8       things in terms of how morality is dictated in

         9       this country is problematic for me.  And I see

        10       this kind of slippery slope, I see us moving

        11       from there, a very, very noble and worthy

        12       cause of protecting our children, to a quickly

        13       moving down to a censorship and a moral

        14       compass being directed over my community that

        15       I certainly cannot vote for.

        16                  And again, I'm not defending the

        17       horror images, the misogynistic or the sexist

        18       images that we see in these video games.  And

        19       I'm certainly not trying to abdicate parents

        20       in this state of their responsibility from

        21       overseeing their children.  Parents have a

        22       responsibility.  And they need to know what

        23       their children -- they need to know.

        24                  If parents are buying video games

        25       for their children and they don't know what's


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         1       in those video games, shame on them.  That's

         2       their job.  In the same way they, you know,

         3       turn on a television set or buy a DVD or a CD

         4       or they let their children on the Internet,

         5       they should know what their children are

         6       watching.  We have conversations about this

         7       all the time, but we have certainly not banned

         8       any of those things.

         9                  And lastly, I guess I'm always

        10       shocked by the flippant attitude that we have

        11       in this body about coming in conflict with the

        12       Constitution of the United States.  I mean,

        13       this is not the first time or even like the

        14       fifth time that I have voted against a bill in

        15       this body because it came into conflict,

        16       clearly, with the courts or the Constitution

        17       of the United States as kind of afterthought,

        18       kind of like, well, if they catch us, they may

        19       well change it.  Maybe.  And I just don't

        20       think that's the right message to send.

        21                  We should be looking at ways to

        22       mitigate violence and particularly violent

        23       images that our children are seeing every day

        24       in our societies.  And we should be working to

        25       make sure that in television and in movies and


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         1       in DVDs and books that those things happen.

         2                  We actually ought to begin by

         3       making sure that our federal government

         4       doesn't go and engage in, you know, wars that

         5       are not sanctioned by the people of the United

         6       States and are immoral.

         7                  But there's other things we can do.

         8       And we are so scared about -- which again is

         9       valid, because there are lot of studies that

        10       indicate that the violence that young people

        11       in particular see does get played out in real

        12       life.  But there's other things that we can do

        13       to mitigate this violence.

        14                  So there's a number of gun control

        15       bills, many of which people in this house

        16       have, that we ought to bring to the floor and

        17       we ought to pass before we go.  If we really

        18       care about violence in our societies, then we

        19       should, you know, have expanded ballistic

        20       testing.  We ought to expand the IDs on

        21       bullets and increase the way that we in fact

        22       have gun control in this state.

        23                  We ought to have better mental

        24       health services, you know, in our schools.

        25       You know, the horrific things that mental


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         1       health decontrol has created in terms of the

         2       homeless situation that we have in this state

         3       is absolutely unconscionable and we ought to

         4       relook at those things and figure out how do

         5       we in fact provide better, more, and more

         6       comprehensive mental health services at every

         7       level of the people of the State of New York

         8       to make sure that the tragedy that happened in

         9       Virginia does not in fact happen here.

        10                  And then, lastly, and this is

        11       something that we all can do, is just work

        12       towards a more caring society.  And a more

        13       caring society means that we in fact expand

        14       the rights of the society.  That education

        15       shouldn't be seen as a privilege, education

        16       should be seen as a right.  That healthcare

        17       should not be seen as a privilege, it should

        18       be seen as a right.  That mental health

        19       services should not be seen as a privilege, it

        20       should be seen as a right.  Affordable housing

        21       ought to not be seen as a privilege, it should

        22       be seen as a right.

        23                  That we need to make sure that

        24       food -- that there's people who are hungry

        25       right now as we sit here, and that shouldn't


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         1       be a privilege.  It should be a right for you

         2       to be able to have food.

         3                  A job.  I said this before, we

         4       ought to pass a full employment law in the

         5       State of New York and simply say that it is no

         6       longer acceptable to have an economic system

         7       that says that there is an optimal level of

         8       unemployment.  That we should in fact ensure a

         9       job for every man, woman and child who wants

        10       one in this state and make sure that we have

        11       ability for people to have a full-time job at

        12       a living wage with benefits.

        13                  And a more caring society would in

        14       fact do as much as this bill would do in terms

        15       of creating a place where our children will be

        16       safe and secure and happy to live in.

        17                  And so, Senator Lanza, please don't

        18       misunderstand my not voting for this bill in

        19       terms of its being any kind of adversarial

        20       thing about you or this bill.  I simply just

        21       have some concerns about where we're going

        22       with it.

        23                  I'm hoping that we can in fact

        24       continue to reduce violence and the images of

        25       violence and misogyny and homophobia and


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         1       racism and all those things that we see in

         2       this society that we don't like, that I know

         3       that people in this body want to see

         4       mitigated, and that we move to a more caring

         5       society where we have less privileges and more

         6       rights.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         8       Robach, on the bill.

         9                  SENATOR ROBACH:    Yes,

        10       Mr. President, on the bill.  I rise to support

        11       this and want to applaud my colleague Senator

        12       Lanza, both as a legislator and as a father.

        13                  I think my colleague Senator

        14       Thompson, certainly I would agree, we agree

        15       with four of the points.  The one that seems

        16       of some controversy is the requirement that

        17       video games should be labeled.  I for one

        18       don't understand what the constitutional

        19       challenge would be.  We rate movies.

        20                  And I think what we're missing is I

        21       hear these comments, but I don't really feel

        22       they're applicable.  We are not saying they

        23       can't make the game, we are saying that we

        24       think it has a different impact on a 7-, a 9-,

        25       an 11-, a 12-, a 15-year-old, someone under


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         1       the age of 18, a minor, than it would an

         2       adult.

         3                  And while I share in all those

         4       other problems that Senator Parker pointed

         5       out, I think trying to help kids at an early

         6       age and not have them exposed to violence

         7       would be one of the things that would make the

         8       world a little bit less violent and a better

         9       place.

        10                  And I would also point out, in

        11       relationship to the fear on the bill, if you

        12       read the bill it clearly points out where the

        13       appointments would come from, some of which

        14       would come from your side of the aisle as well

        15       as ours, other trained professionals in the

        16       area, from teachers, parents, psychiatrists,

        17       psychologists, as well as some appointments by

        18       the Governor and this body.

        19                  I in all sincerity think this is

        20       very good, sound language.  And I want to

        21       point out that all this label does is let

        22       parents -- who often, I admit this, buy the

        23       game unknowingly with things in there they

        24       don't want their kids to see that really are

        25       of a superrealistic, graphic, violent nature,


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         1       often showing things that would be completely

         2       illegal to do in the real world, almost making

         3       it look like fun and fantasy again to

         4       desensitize and encourage.

         5                  So I think this would be a great

         6       bill.  Again, it does not stop these

         7       manufacturers, these businesses from making

         8       the games.  Whether I think they're garbage or

         9       great, it doesn't affect that at all.  It only

        10       says, very similar to a movie, this is NA,

        11       explain a little bit what's in it, and really

        12       would be a very big cross-section of people

        13       deciding how those labels get on there.  I

        14       think it would be great.  I'm happy to support

        15       the bill and encourage the rest of my

        16       colleagues to vote for that.

        17                  Thank you.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        19       Marcellino, on the bill.

        20                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Yes, thank

        21       you, Mr. President.

        22                  I too rise to support this bill.  I

        23       think it's a good bill, it moves in the right

        24       direction.  As the new grandparent of a

        25       granddaughter, I want to make sure that my


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         1       grandchild is protected from the images, that

         2       her parents are given the proper notice as to

         3       what is contained in these games and videos

         4       and the like that come out.

         5                  The only concern, Senator Parker

         6       mentioned "The Terminator."  The only

         7       difference with "The Terminator," it was

         8       rated.  It was in fact at the time rated R, so

         9       that children under 17 couldn't get into see

        10       it without parental consent.

        11                  I think that's all Senator Lanza

        12       would like to see.  He'd like too see these

        13       games rated so that parents know basically

        14       what they're getting and what's the content of

        15       the games that are involved here.

        16                  I think this is a good idea.  Let's

        17       do it.  I intend to vote aye.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Thank

        19       you, Senator Marcellino.

        20                  Any other Senator wishing to be

        21       heard?

        22                  Debate is closed.  The Secretary

        23       will ring the bell.

        24                  Read the last section.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 7.  This


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         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Call

         3       the roll.

         4                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         6       Bonacic, to explain his vote.

         7                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Mr. President,

         8       I stand to congratulate Senator Lanza on

         9       bringing this bill forward.

        10                  I think -- there's no question in

        11       my mind that there is a correlation.  With our

        12       children who watch these violent video games,

        13       there's a tendency for them to be more violent

        14       and more aggressive.  And I think psychology

        15       studies have shown that to be true.

        16                  So what is it we as public

        17       officials try to do?  We try to put forth laws

        18       that represent the values, priorities and

        19       protection of our children which the majority

        20       of the people --

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        22       Hassell-Thompson, why do you rise?

        23                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    I

        24       apologize.  I'll wait.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator


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         1       Bonacic.

         2                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Yes.  So we put

         3       forward legislation that we believe reflects

         4       the feelings of the majority of the people

         5       that we represent.  That's what Senator Lanza

         6       has done.

         7                  Now, if we have constitutional

         8       concerns, like any legislation that passes

         9       this house, we have staff counsel, we have

        10       general counsel in the Senate before a bill

        11       goes through.  In the Assembly they have those

        12       same legal minds that review this stuff.  And

        13       so it goes, to the Governor's office.

        14                  So we have been through this

        15       process before.  Now, if there is a

        16       constitutional issue that's been raised and

        17       it's proper to raise it, quite frankly I would

        18       like to make an error on the side of public

        19       safety and the protection of our children and

        20       leave the judicial branch to make that

        21       ultimate decision if we've done something

        22       wrong.

        23                  So for those reasons, I'm

        24       supporting the bill.  And I thank, again,

        25       Senator Lanza for bringing it forward.


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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         2       Bonacic in the affirmative.

         3                  Senator Hassell-Thompson, to

         4       explain her vote.

         5                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

         6       you, Mr. President.

         7                  I listened, as it's clear that I

         8       did to all the questions that Senator Lanza

         9       asked me, and I listened to all the people who

        10       have stood to congratulate and to support

        11       Senator Lanza on this bill.  I too

        12       congratulate Senator Lanza on this bill,

        13       particularly because of its intent.

        14                  I still must pose the question to

        15       Senator Lanza, why the rush?  There is an

        16       appropriation that has to be made which will

        17       not appear until next year's budgetary period.

        18       That would give us more than enough time to

        19       hammer out the issues.

        20                  Not only that, we are still in the

        21       middle of -- we've been in the middle of

        22       negotiating the very language.  And it was

        23       agreed in the fifth meeting that was held on

        24       Saturday that much of the language of Senator

        25       Lanza's bill would in fact be included in the


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         1       Governor's program bill.

         2                  So suddenly here we are, faced with

         3       passing a bill that has language that is

         4       constitutionally challenging, and yet we're

         5       rushing to put it in as though it was going to

         6       make that much of a difference.  And I can

         7       tell you that with these points, it will be

         8       impossible to get support for this bill out of

         9       the Assembly.

        10                  And you can say what you will about

        11       that, but we've worked very hard up to this

        12       point with the Assembly, and they were going

        13       along with the language of this bill until

        14       such time as you insisted that this bill must

        15       go in the way in which that you presented it,

        16       Senator Lanza.

        17                  So I will -- you know, these are

        18       one of those times I wish that I could

        19       abstain.  I voted without recommendation in

        20       Rules because I just don't feel that this bill

        21       is going to pass.  But I can't not support you

        22       based upon the intent that I know that both of

        23       you and I want to see happen in the effects of

        24       this legislation.

        25                  So I will be voting to support you,


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         1       but I'm going to tell you, we're going to have

         2       a problem, Senator Lanza.  We're going to have

         3       a big problem with this bill.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

         5       Hassell-Thompson in the affirmative.  Is that

         6       correct?

         7                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Yes,

         8       that's correct, Mr. President.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        10       DeFrancisco, to explain his vote.

        11                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I think

        12       this is a good bill, and Senator Lanza should

        13       be applauded for moving this as quickly as

        14       possible.

        15                  First of all, there were some

        16       references by Senator Parker concerning some

        17       situations that might be determined to be

        18       racist as to who might be the targets of some

        19       legislation like this, and he gave "The

        20       Terminator" example.  I don't remember Senator

        21       Lanza saying anything about who the individual

        22       was that produced the video that shows people

        23       how to play a game based upon the recent

        24       slayings of all those college students.  I

        25       don't think he even knows.  Quite frankly, I


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         1       don't think he cares or anyone else here

         2       should care, because the victims are not of

         3       any particular race.  And the concept is to

         4       give parents as many tools as possible so they

         5       can protect their kids.  And how could that be

         6       wrong?

         7                  If the only objectionable part of

         8       this legislation is whether there's mandatory

         9       ratings and it turns out to be

        10       unconstitutional, there's a theory known as

        11       severability.  And basically the court who

        12       finds it unconstitutional can cut out any

        13       parts that are not proper or not in accordance

        14       with the Constitution.

        15                  But even more importantly, the

        16       members of the various appeals courts change

        17       all the time.  And if anyone has not noticed,

        18       over the last several years the Court of

        19       Appeals has changed a little bit to the right,

        20       if you want to look at the political spectrum.

        21       And it could change to the left later on with

        22       Governor Spitzer's appointees.

        23                  The fact of the matter, as Senator

        24       Lanza mentioned, it depends upon who's on the

        25       court at the time.  So I really feel that


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         1       we've got to provide the biggest, best tools

         2       we can.  And hopefully at the time this is

         3       reviewed, that that section is constitutional,

         4       because who happens to be on the court that

         5       determines the constitutionality -- and if

         6       it's not the worst-case scenario, is that

         7       section that's not constitutional is severed,

         8       the rest is enforced.

         9                  So I think it's good legislation.

        10       As Senator Bonacic said, we ought to err on

        11       the side -- if we're erring at all; I don't

        12       believe we are -- to protect our children and

        13       our grandchildren.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    Senator

        15       DeFrancisco in the affirmative.

        16                  Is there any other Senator that

        17       wishes to speak?

        18                  Senator C. Johnson.

        19                  SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:    Thank

        20       you.

        21                  I rise to support this legislation.

        22       As a parent of a 5-year-old and a 2-year-old,

        23       I obviously, if they are going to start buying

        24       video games, would want to know what's in

        25       those video games.


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         1                  I am concerned, I share the concern

         2       with my colleague Senator Ruth

         3       Hassell-Thompson, in reviewing this

         4       legislation.  Because Senator Bonacic brought

         5       out, you do have counsel, and able counsel, to

         6       address these issues.  Because my concern is

         7       that the bill doesn't effectively -- more

         8       importantly, it leaves some holes.

         9                  For instance, it doesn't create an

        10       actual ratings system.  The language talks

        11       about standardized designation, when the

        12       problem is I don't know what standardized

        13       designation is going to be.  So clearly we may

        14       be coming back here to address what is the

        15       standardized designation that's going to be

        16       attached.  And I think that's a good thing.

        17       That way maybe we could discuss it a little

        18       bit more.

        19                  Because Senator DeFrancisco and

        20       Senator Lanza seem to be quoting the Supreme

        21       Court, or paraphrasing the Supreme Court, and

        22       I will as well.  As Justice Powell talked

        23       about when looking at pornography and saying,

        24       you know, what is pornography, he remarked, "I

        25       know it when I see it."


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         1                  And I think that's the same thing

         2       we have here with our ratings systems, it's

         3       kind of the designation of what is violence

         4       and what falls within that rating system.

         5                  But I think it's important because

         6       when we are asking our manufacturers and our

         7       distributors to put a rating system on our

         8       video games, there has to be some sort of

         9       guideline, and this bill doesn't actually

        10       address that.  But I'm hopeful that this will

        11       come back to do so.

        12                  My final point is that when we come

        13       back and address these issues, one thing we

        14       need to look at is are we going to apply this

        15       expansively.  Because the way I read the

        16       bill -- and I still am supportive of the

        17       bill -- for children's games, my 5-year-old

        18       goes on the computer and goes to Noggin or

        19       Nickelodeon, and those are two websites for

        20       youngsters, and plays video games on them.

        21       And according to this bill, you're asking now

        22       Noggin and Nickelodeon to provide a rating for

        23       these particular games.

        24                  So I think when we decide if we

        25       have to come back to address what type of


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         1       rating system we're going to produce, we need

         2       to see are we going to focus specifically on

         3       violent video games and video games that focus

         4       on sex and prurient interests, or are we going

         5       to talk a rating system where it's totally

         6       expansive for games under the age of five.

         7                  But I do support this legislation.

         8       I believe it's important.  We should err on

         9       the side of caution, we should err on the side

        10       of protecting our children and our

        11       grandchildren, and I will vote yes.

        12                  Thank you.

        13                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator

        14       C. Johnson will be recorded in the

        15       affirmative.

        16                  Senator Farley, to explain his

        17       vote.

        18                  SENATOR FARLEY:    Yes, thank you,

        19       Mr. President.

        20                  Senator Hassell-Thompson, in her

        21       acute hearing, heard me say "good job" to

        22       Senator Lanza.  I just want the record to show

        23       that it was a good job.  It's a good bill.

        24       And I vote in the affirmative.

        25                  (Laughter.)


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         1                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Farley

         2       will be recorded in the affirmative.

         3                  Senator Lanza, to explain his vote.

         4                  SENATOR LANZA:    Thank you,

         5       Mr. President.

         6                  You know, the question has been

         7       raised why the rush, why now.  Because I

         8       believe that when it comes to protecting our

         9       children, you can't act quickly enough.  There

        10       is no time like the present.

        11                  Is this difficult?  Is it

        12       challenging?  Were there issues that we needed

        13       to negotiate and navigate through in order to

        14       craft legislation that we thought would pass

        15       constitutional muster?  Yes.  It's not easy.

        16       That's precisely why we should do it, because

        17       of what's at stake.  We shouldn't run and hide

        18       because something is difficult.

        19                  There was talk about which moral

        20       compass or whose moral compass would be used

        21       in addressing this issue as we move forward.

        22       Only a broken moral compass would not be able

        23       to discern the damaging effect that a video

        24       game has that teaches kids that it's okay to

        25       assassinate New York City police officers, or


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         1       that the mass murder at Virginia Tech is

         2       something that we should make light of or turn

         3       into a game.

         4                  We know, we know the detrimental

         5       effect that these games are having on

         6       children.  And we know how it all ends up for

         7       them.

         8                  The constitutional issue.  The

         9       point was raised that the manufacturers have

        10       rights.  I'm aware of that.  This is not a

        11       measure that would prohibit anyone from

        12       selling anything to anyone.  I wish it did.  I

        13       wish we could pass a law that would pass

        14       constitutional muster that would prohibit

        15       these games from getting into the hands of

        16       kids.  But it seems, sadly, that that clearly

        17       is something we can't do.

        18                  Maybe my colleagues have some

        19       insight into the nine justices who sit on the

        20       Supreme Court and have polled them and know

        21       how they're going to decide in the

        22       hypothetical eventuality that this case goes

        23       before them.  I don't.  I know that this

        24       country has a history, a history of trying to

        25       protect rights of individuals that from time


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         1       to time have been judged to be constitutional

         2       or not.  But we shouldn't run and hide at the

         3       prospect that potentially a challenge will be

         4       made and that this will be struck down.

         5                  It was suggested perhaps that this

         6       is being flippant to the United States

         7       Constitution.  I'm not being flippant.  In

         8       fact, I have the opposite opinion with respect

         9       to the Constitution.  I'm optimistic, I'm

        10       hopeful that our Constitution will protect our

        11       right and will sanction our ability to protect

        12       our children from an influence in society that

        13       we know, we know beyond a reasonable doubt is

        14       creating a culture of violence and is having a

        15       disastrous effect.

        16                  Manufacturer's rights.  One of my

        17       colleagues across the aisle last week, when

        18       talking about paint cans, talked about not

        19       wanting to put profits over public health,

        20       talked about lead, lead in paint and how it

        21       hurts kids.  Were there challenges to

        22       provisions that sought to protect kids from

        23       that?  Sure there were.  We knew they were

        24       coming in advance.  Did people run and hide?

        25       No, they stood up.


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         1                  Smoking in the workplace.  Were

         2       challenges on the horizon?  Absolutely.

         3       People stood up and led and did what they

         4       thought was right.

         5                  This is a labeling requirement.

         6       That's all this does, it puts a label on a

         7       game to let people know ahead of the purchase,

         8       to let parents know that the content may be

         9       damaging to the health of your child.  This is

        10       information.  This is education.  That's all

        11       this bill does.

        12                  So I say let's hope that the

        13       Constitution of this great land is still a

        14       vehicle that continues to allow us to protect

        15       our right to do what's right for society.

        16                  Mr. President, I vote aye.

        17                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Lanza

        18       will be recorded in the affirmative.

        19                  Senator Adams, to explain his vote.

        20                  SENATOR ADAMS:    Mr. President,

        21       thank you.

        22                  You know, I was going to vote nay

        23       on this bill.  I was.  And I remember I saw --

        24       about two months ago, I saw a mother walk with

        25       her son, and he had no belt on his pants and


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         1       his underwear was showing, and she was walking

         2       with him.

         3                  And it dawned on me that we have to

         4       be very careful when abnormal behavior becomes

         5       normal.  We've reached a point in society

         6       where our children are so used to violence,

         7       our children are so used to not having the

         8       basic principles that's made us great as a

         9       country.  And when we reach the point that

        10       children duplicate the behavior of those who

        11       are incarcerated and it becomes normal to

        12       parents, then something is wrong.

        13                  And so we may have a constitutional

        14       problem; I think my colleague was correct in

        15       that.  But we do have to start -- and I agree

        16       with you, Senator Lanza, we do have to start

        17       the process of bringing a level of normality

        18       back to our everyday behavior.  When parents

        19       walk inside a household and they watch their

        20       children listen to degrading music and it's

        21       normal, when parents allow their children to

        22       move through our society in a degrading

        23       fashion and it's normal, something has gone so

        24       far, and the style of living we're doing as

        25       Americans -- when we used to set the standards


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         1       of how the globe lives and exists.

         2                  So we do need legislation like

         3       this.  And I disagree with my colleague.  If

         4       this is a slippery slope, I want to be on that

         5       slope and slide along with it.  Because we

         6       have to put a period to the behavior that

         7       appears to have engulfed our society.

         8                  And so some will say, well, what's

         9       wrong with not wearing a belt?  What's wrong

        10       with not dressing a certain way?  I've learned

        11       that the dismantling of a society is a slow

        12       erosive process of the basic principle that

        13       makes a society great.

        14                  The video games started out as just

        15       using foul languages.  Our children adapted to

        16       those languages.  Then it started out just

        17       shooting one person.  Our children adapted to

        18       that shooting.  We have an adaptability as a

        19       human person that if we don't stop it,

        20       eventually we're going to have 3D games where

        21       individuals are going to start shooting each

        22       other.

        23                  And I'll never forget one case that

        24       made me change my mind today as I heard you

        25       speak.  A young man we arrested, he and his


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         1       buddy participated in a gang rape.  In his

         2       pocket was the video game that was duplication

         3       of the action he carried out.

         4                  So if people are telling me our

         5       children don't duplicate that behavior, just

         6       go back and see how they leave a kung fu movie

         7       and start kicking and screaming.  Now you have

         8       a countless number of kids that want to be CSI

         9       investigators because they see CSI on TV.

        10                  These games influence, impact, and

        11       they address our children.  This bill is the

        12       right bill, this is the right decision to

        13       make.  And I change my vote from nay to aye,

        14       and I agree with this bill.

        15                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Adams

        16       will be recorded in the affirmative.

        17                  The Secretary will announce the

        18       results.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

        20       the negative on Calendar Number 1174 are

        21       Senators Breslin, Duane, Gonzalez, Montgomery

        22       and Parker.

        23                  Ayes, 56.  Nays, 5.

        24                  THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

        25       passed.


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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         2       1175, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5892, an

         3       act to amend the Education Law, in relation to

         4       creating the Children's Healthy Access to

         5       Meals Program.

         6                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Explanation.

         7                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Saland,

         8       an explanation has been requested by Senator

         9       Sampson.

        10                  SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you,

        11       Mr. President.

        12                  Mr. President, I'm sure there's

        13       nobody in this chamber who is unaware of some

        14       of the very troubling data that certainly has

        15       had enormous coverage and certainly enormous

        16       public impact over the course of the past two

        17       or three years dealing with the issue of

        18       childhood obesity, young children being

        19       overweight, a comparison of statistics going

        20       back two and three decades where young

        21       children, adolescents and younger, seem to be

        22       far heavier and certainly with far greater

        23       percentages in terms of obesity, more given to

        24       obesity than we've witnessed during our prior

        25       generations.


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         1                  What this bill proposes to do,

         2       Mr. President, basically is to recognize not

         3       merely the problem but to deal with it in a

         4       fashion that is not prescriptive but a fashion

         5       that requires the collaboration of the

         6       Commissioner of Education, the Commissioner of

         7       Health, and the Commissioner of Ag and

         8       Markets, the purpose of which would be to

         9       provide, by way of regulation, the ability for

        10       schools by the next school year, 2008-2009, to

        11       adopt basically not only new means by which to

        12       provide for nutrition within their schools but

        13       also new means at the same time by which to

        14       review their curriculum for both physical

        15       education, which hasn't been looked at in

        16       decades, and for instruction with respect to

        17       nutrition.

        18                  Certainly it has to be recognized

        19       that healthy eating habits are established in

        20       the home.  Food and beverages, however, in

        21       schools certainly play a significant part of a

        22       child's nutritional intake during the course

        23       of a week.  And as Senator Parker I believe

        24       said during the earlier debate, certainly

        25       parents have responsibility.  But schools


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         1       should not -- and I repeat not -- be part of

         2       the problem but certainly should be part of

         3       the solution.

         4                  And by requiring that

         5       collaboration, by requiring a less

         6       prescriptive means than has been proposed by

         7       the Governor, we are basically getting to the

         8       same place in a fashion that recognizes that

         9       there's changes in the science frequently.

        10                  My own personal experience.  As one

        11       who watches his cholesterol intake because of

        12       my concern about a history of heart condition

        13       in my family, and having experienced some

        14       challenges in that regard myself, I can recall

        15       probably 15 or so years ago I was advised that

        16       I had to keep my cholesterol below 220.  Well,

        17       probably within several years thereafter, I

        18       was told it had to be below 200.  And then

        19       within the past several years I was told it

        20       had to be below 180.

        21                  There's a certain evolution,

        22       there's an evolution with respect to the food

        23       pyramid.  Things change.  What's today

        24       acceptable in terms of milligrams for sodium

        25       or sugar may not be acceptable two years from


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         1       now.

         2                  So to take this overly prescriptive

         3       approach as has been proposed by the Governor

         4       is basically to say that every time there's a

         5       change in the science, there's a new finding,

         6       that we in fact have to change the statute.

         7                  These things can be done by

         8       regulation.  They can be done, in effect, far

         9       more readily without taking up the time and

        10       attention of this body and the other house.

        11       If in fact we disagree, we can always

        12       certainly take issue.  There's provision for a

        13       constant review, so that there's reports to

        14       the Legislature no more than one year apart.

        15                  We have provided for the first time

        16       in probably about 25 years for an increase in

        17       the amount of monies that would go to schools

        18       based on the number of lunches that they are

        19       providing under the national program.  There's

        20       probably somewhere in the area, I believe, of

        21       about 1400 lunches that are served every day

        22       in school.  We're proposing to provide the

        23       additional money, based on lunches and the

        24       breakfasts, by the way.  There's probably some

        25       500,000 breakfasts that are provided.


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         1                  One of the things that concerned

         2       me -- and if I may, simply because I had the

         3       opportunity to review the Governor's proposed

         4       program bill, and I must sort of share with

         5       you my reason for getting where it is that

         6       I've arrived -- I was troubled by the fact

         7       that there was language in the bill that went

         8       so far as to say that nothing in the bill

         9       prohibited students and staff from drinking

        10       from water fountains.  I mean, that's quite

        11       literally in the bill.  And, I mean, if you're

        12       being that prescriptive that you have to say

        13       it's okay to drink from a water fountain, I

        14       must share with you that you've gone a little

        15       over the top, at least in my opinion.

        16                  The Governor's proposal would

        17       require breakfasts to be provided in every

        18       single school district.  Now, for the past 10

        19       to 12 days we have been trying to find out the

        20       costs associated with providing breakfasts in

        21       school districts.  There are things that flow

        22       from that.  There may be school districts, for

        23       example, that use the same school buses to run

        24       children one time, and then take another

        25       run -- perhaps they start off with the younger


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         1       kids in the morning, perhaps they start off

         2       with the older kids in the morning, and in

         3       some instances they'll do a second run to pick

         4       up those kids again.

         5                  There will be transportation

         6       consequences.  Will we require more buses if

         7       we're going to take all the kids together?

         8       Are we going to have young children and

         9       adolescents in with high school students?

        10       There are just issues that we've been asking

        11       for answers to that we have yet to receive

        12       answers to.

        13                  And if you're going to provide a

        14       breakfast, as is proposed by the Governor, for

        15       every student, what does that do in part to

        16       your contracts?  Now you have part-time

        17       employees, many of whom are working in

        18       cafeterias, who may not be working a full day.

        19       If they have to come in and work a full day,

        20       are there consequences to the school district?

        21       Do they become entitled to retirement benefits

        22       because they're working a longer day?  These

        23       are issues, again, that we've been asking for

        24       answers to, and we have yet to receive them.

        25                  So I think this is a balanced


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         1       approach.  I think it's a reasonable approach.

         2       I think it's a fair approach.  I think it gets

         3       us again to the same place.

         4                  We look at the integration of phys

         5       ed and nutrition.  We look merely not at what

         6       is it that's going to be served to children,

         7       but what is it that's going on in the

         8       children.  Do you throw a ball down in the

         9       middle of the court and say, Okay, kids, just

        10       play for the next half hour, 45 minutes?

        11       There has to be a better way of also dealing

        12       with the phys ed side of the obesity and

        13       overweight question as well.

        14                  We are not capable of

        15       micromanaging.  We should not be

        16       micromanaging.  But we should certainly make

        17       sure that at all times we retain our

        18       oversight.  And this bill would enable us to

        19       do that.

        20                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT ROBACH:    Thank

        22       you, Senator Saland.

        23                  Senator Sampson.

        24                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    I defer to my

        25       colleague.


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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT ROBACH:    Senator

         2       Sampson is yielding to Senator Oppenheimer.

         3                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    He's a

         4       gentleman and a scholar.

         5                  I'm very, very supportive of

         6       Senator Saland's bill, and I'll give you some

         7       of the reasons, though I think really Senator

         8       Saland hit upon many of them.

         9                  The requirement to have a breakfast

        10       mandate makes no sense to me at all, no sense.

        11       Because there are many homes where breakfast

        12       is served.  It was always served in my home

        13       before the children left.  What am I now to

        14       tell them, you can't eat breakfast at home,

        15       you have to eat it at school?  Makes no sense.

        16                  And as far as any contractual

        17       arrangements we have, the additional costs, I

        18       mean it could really escalate.  We need people

        19       there to offer this, and the contracts have

        20       been signed and they didn't include breakfast,

        21       to say nothing about the buses.  I mean, it

        22       just doesn't make sense to me.

        23                  I think also that if we put

        24       nutritional requirements into law, we are in

        25       for very big problems.  One year it is good to


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         1       eat eggs, and three years later it's bad.  And

         2       then two years after that, it's good to eat

         3       eggs.  I mean, you cannot possibly keep up

         4       with the changing scientific data.  I don't

         5       even know if anybody should follow the

         6       scientific data, because just eat healthy, eat

         7       smart, use your brain and I think you're best

         8       off.  Anything in moderation is fine.

         9                  But I think to put it into law, we

        10       would have to come back every time we wanted

        11       to change it from 6 ounces to 8 ounces or 12

        12       ounces, you know, the amount of juice in the

        13       container.  It makes no sense.  So it really

        14       should just be regulation where it can be done

        15       by our Department of Health and our Department

        16       of Education.

        17                  The fact that we will increase by

        18       10 cents per meal to cover the increased costs

        19       in the school lunch program I think is a

        20       wonderful move that we are finally making.

        21       And there is no such increase in monies going

        22       to districts in the Governor's proposal, and I

        23       think he really has to take a close look at

        24       that.

        25                  If we can manage to find a way to


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         1       provide more local ingredients into our lunch

         2       program, more vegetables and fruits that are

         3       grown locally, I think that's a win-win.  It's

         4       a win for our agricultural people in our state

         5       who are already hurting, and I think anything

         6       we can do to assist them is beneficial.

         7                  And we just have to find a way to

         8       make that possible so that we can use the

         9       local fruits and vegetables, which in some

        10       cases are going to be a little more expensive

        11       but it certainly is of value to our economy

        12       and I think to the children because it's very,

        13       very fresh.

        14                  I think this is an excellent bill,

        15       and I hope that we will be able to negotiate

        16       something closer to this than to what the

        17       Governor has offered us.

        18                  Thank you.

        19                  THE PRESIDENT:    Is there any

        20       other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?

        21                  Senator Sampson.

        22                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Thank you,

        23       Mr. President.  On the bill.

        24                  I want to commend Senator Saland

        25       for this legislation, especially the piece of


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         1       the legislation that deals with allowing

         2       school districts to purchase New York State

         3       agricultural products.  And I commend you

         4       especially; that will be very helpful to our

         5       farmers upstate and our upstate economy.

         6                  One thing I would love to see if

         7       this was in the bill would be the posting of

         8       nutritional values.  We talk about we want our

         9       kids to eat nutritional meals and we're

        10       concerned about the cholesterol level.  And,

        11       you know, I'm concerned about when our kids

        12       are eating or what foods they eat, because you

        13       are what you eat.

        14                  But at the same time, we need to be

        15       posting the nutritional levels that kids are

        16       consuming.  So if the bill could be tweaked,

        17       that's the only piece of the bill I would like

        18       to see tweaked dealing with the nutritional

        19       information that needs to be provided to our

        20       children so they know exactly what they're

        21       eating.

        22                  But once again, I want to commend

        23       the sponsor for the legislation.

        24                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        25                  THE PRESIDENT:    Is there any


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         1       other Senator that would like to speak on the

         2       bill?

         3                  Senator Stavisky.

         4                  SENATOR STAVISKY:    Thank you,

         5       Mr. President.

         6                  It's been said that breakfast is

         7       the most important meal of the day.  And a

         8       number of years ago, back I guess it was in

         9       the early '70s when my husband was in the

        10       Assembly chairing the Education Committee, he

        11       was the sponsor of the school breakfast bill,

        12       the first one I believe in the country, but

        13       certainly the current law where we provide

        14       school breakfasts -- breakfasts in the schools

        15       of New York.

        16                  The reason I mention this,

        17       Mr. President, is that earlier today we

        18       dedicated a post office in Flushing in my

        19       district in Leonard's memory.  And while I

        20       wish there had been a breakfast component to

        21       this bill, I think it's a great start and I'm

        22       delighted to support this bill.

        23                  Thank you.

        24                  THE PRESIDENT:    Is there any

        25       other Senator who would like to speak on this


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         1       bill?

         2                  Senator Maziarz?  Senator Robach?

         3       No?  Please.

         4                  (Laughter.)

         5                  SENATOR DUANE:    Explanation.

         6                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senator Robach?

         7       No?  Not even Senator Duane?  Breakfast is the

         8       most important meal of the day.  Dinner must

         9       be, because a lot of members seem fed up

        10       around here.

        11                  (Laughter.)

        12                  THE PRESIDENT:    The Secretary

        13       will read the last section.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

        15       act shall take effect immediately.

        16                  THE PRESIDENT:    Call the roll.

        17                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                  THE PRESIDENT:    Announce the

        19       results.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 61.  Nays,

        21       0.

        22                  THE PRESIDENT:    The bill is

        23       passed.

        24                  Senator Maltese.

        25                  SENATOR MALTESE:    Mr. President,


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         1       would you lay aside 1176 for the day.

         2                  THE PRESIDENT:    Senate Calendar

         3       1176 will be laid aside for the day.

         4                  With that, that completes the

         5       controversial reading of the calendar, Senator

         6       Maltese.

         7                  SENATOR MALTESE:    Is there any

         8       other business at the desk?

         9                  THE PRESIDENT:    Fortunately no,

        10       Senator.

        11                  SENATOR MALTESE:    There being no

        12       further business, I move we adjourn until

        13       Tuesday, May 22nd, at 11:00 a.m.

        14                  THE PRESIDENT:    On motion, the

        15       Senate is adjourned until Tuesday, May 22nd,

        16       at 11:00 a.m.

        17                  (Whereupon, at 6:23 p.m., the

        18       Senate adjourned.)

        19

        20

        21

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