Regular Session - May 21, 2007
3048
1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
2
3
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
5
6
7
8
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 May 21, 2007
11 3:08 p.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
15
16
17
18 LT. GOVERNOR DAVID A. PATERSON, President
19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
3 Senate will come to order.
4 I ask everyone present to rise and
5 recite with me the Pledge of Allegiance.
6 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited
7 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
9 invocation today will be given by the Reverend
10 Peter G. Young, Mother Theresa Community in
11 Albany.
12 Father.
13 REVEREND YOUNG: Thank you,
14 Senator.
15 Dear God, we are proud to welcome
16 Michael Brown, speaker of the Ontario
17 Assembly, to the Senate chamber.
18 And we know that You, ever living
19 God, as we gather here in this Senate chamber
20 as members representing our constituents to
21 provide leadership for all our New York State
22 citizens, that You will guide us with Your
23 spirit and enlighten our minds and guide our
24 actions, that we may be united in love and
25 bring to fulfillment the work of government
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1 for the greater honor and glory of God and of
2 our citizens.
3 Amen.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Reading
5 of the Journal.
6 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
7 Sunday, May 20, the Senate met pursuant to
8 adjournment. The Journal of Saturday, May 19,
9 was read and approved. On motion, Senate
10 adjourned.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Without
12 objection, the Journal stands approved as
13 read.
14 Presentation of petitions.
15 Messages from the Assembly.
16 Messages from the Governor.
17 Reports of standing committees.
18 Reports of select committees.
19 Communications and reports from
20 state officers.
21 Motions and resolutions.
22 Senator Nozzolio.
23 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
24 I have five resolutions at the desk. I ask
25 that their titles be read and that I have the
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1 opportunity to speak on those resolutions
2 collectively.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
4 Secretary will read.
5 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
6 Nozzolio, Legislative Resolution Number 2351,
7 commending Kyle Dake upon the occasion of
8 capturing the 2007 New York State Wrestling
9 Championship.
10 By Senator Nozzolio, Legislative
11 Resolution Number 2354, commending Alex
12 Ekstrom upon the occasion of capturing the
13 2007 New York State Wrestling Championship.
14 By Senator Nozzolio, Legislative
15 Resolution Number 1744, commending Ben Hall of
16 Victor High School upon the occasion of
17 winning the 2007 Section 5 New York State
18 Track and Field Championship in the
19 3,200-Meter Run.
20 By Senator Nozzolio, Legislative
21 Resolution Number 2355, commending Tyler
22 Marlow upon the occasion of capturing the 2007
23 New York State Wrestling Championship.
24 And by Senator Nozzolio,
25 Legislative Resolution Number 2353,
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1 congratulating Williamson High School
2 student-athlete Brian Miller upon the occasion
3 of his designation as the New York State
4 Indoor Track Champion.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
6 Nozzolio, on the resolutions.
7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you,
8 Mr. President.
9 Mr. President and my colleagues, I
10 rise with great honor to join in the
11 recognition of five outstanding young
12 individuals from the areas that I represent in
13 New York State that are here in our State
14 Capitol to be recognized as New York State
15 athletic champions.
16 Mr. President and my colleagues,
17 they are recognized as champions in both
18 athletic competition as well as in the
19 classroom. Kyle Dake, Alex Ekstrom, Ben Hall,
20 Tyler Marlow, and Brian Miller have shown time
21 and again that they are superb athletes, and
22 I'd like to just briefly chronicle some of
23 their accomplishments.
24 In winning state championships,
25 Kyle Dake, first and foremost, took first
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1 place in the 112-pound class in the 2007
2 New York State High School Wrestling
3 Championships. He became the very first from
4 Lansing High School as a wrestler to become
5 state champion. The efforts of his coach,
6 Doug Dake, and that his commitment are
7 excellence are second to none.
8 I also should note that Kyle
9 achieved, number one, the champion of the U.S.
10 Coaches National High School Competition.
11 Those indoor nationals were -- in effect,
12 those Coaches Association nationals placed him
13 number one of all wrestlers in the United
14 States.
15 Congratulations to Kyle and
16 congratulations to him as an exemplary
17 representative of his school, community, and
18 state.
19 Alex Ekstrom is a state champion,
20 125-pound weight class New York State
21 wrestling champion. He is the first
22 Palmyra-Macedon High School Red Raider to
23 become a two-time Section 5 Class BBBB state
24 wrestling champion and set a new record of 48
25 wins and one loss in the 2007 season.
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1 That he too performed as our state
2 representative in his weight class to the U.S.
3 Coaches Association competition, and performed
4 extremely well.
5 Ben Hall is an outstanding young
6 man and a tremendous athlete. He placed first
7 in the New York State Indoor Track and Field
8 Championships held this last winter. That he
9 was fourth in his final lap of his
10 championship run, but through determination,
11 grit and hard work he ended up winning the
12 race and running the fastest last lap.
13 That he also competed in the
14 Maryland Nike Indoor National Championships,
15 representing our region, our state, and did
16 extremely well.
17 Ben will be graduating in a few
18 weeks and will attend Georgetown University.
19 Tyler Marlow was the 103-pound
20 New York State wrestling champion. A
21 sophomore at Palmyra-Macedon, that he was
22 exemplary in his dedication and became
23 New York State Champion in his weight class.
24 And lastly, Brian Miller, that he
25 also, in running the last leg of the Section V
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1 relay team, ran that in exemplary time. His
2 coach, Coach Carl Comstock, is extremely proud
3 of his young athlete, who became the first
4 Williamson athlete ever to be named an overall
5 state champion.
6 Mr. President, please join with me
7 in welcoming these state champions to the
8 State Capitol and to our Senate chamber.
9 I'd also like to mention some
10 family, friends, coaches and mentors who are
11 here with these fine athletes.
12 Kyle Dake is accompanied by his
13 father and coach, Doug, and mother, Jodi Dake,
14 who's clerk treasurer of the Village of
15 Lansing.
16 Alex Ekstrom is accompanied by his
17 mom and dad, Bob and Lynn, as well as Coach
18 Brian Quick and the athletic director from
19 Pal-Mac, Fred Ciaburri.
20 Ben Hall is accompanied by his mom
21 and dad, Donna and Jeff Hall; his grandma from
22 Waterloo, New York, Diana Freezee; and coach
23 and mentor of Victor athletes, Belinda
24 O'Brien.
25 Tyler Marlow is accompanied by Pam
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1 and Ken VanKoevering, who are his parents; his
2 coach, Brian Quick; and Athletic Director Fred
3 Ciaburri.
4 And lastly, Brian Miller is here
5 with his mom, Debbie; Darryl Boyce, his
6 grandfather; and Carl Comstock, his coach.
7 Mr. President, these are not just
8 exemplary athletes, these are fine young men,
9 leaders who are molded by our New York State
10 school system to be just that, leaders of
11 tomorrow. And as such, Mr. President, I thank
12 you for welcoming them to this historic Senate
13 chamber and congratulating them on being
14 genuine state champions.
15 Thank you, Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Thank
17 you, Senator Nozzolio.
18 The question is on the resolutions.
19 All those in favor signify by saying aye.
20 (Response of "Aye.")
21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:
22 Opposed, nay.
23 (No response.)
24 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
25 resolutions are adopted.
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1 On behalf of Senator Nozzolio and
2 all of the members of the New York State
3 Senate, to the athletes and their family
4 members, we welcome you to the Capitol, we
5 extend our congratulations and our
6 recognition. And by virtue of the adoption of
7 these resolutions, you are now part of the
8 history of the State of New York.
9 Enjoy your stay here in the
10 Capitol. Welcome.
11 (Applause.)
12 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
13 Libous.
14 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
15 would you recognize Senator Marcellino for the
16 purpose of an introduction, please.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
18 Marcellino.
19 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you,
20 Senator Libous.
21 Mr. President, it is my high honor
22 to introduce to the members of this body
23 Michael A. Brown, who is the speaker of the
24 Legislative Assembly of Ontario, and his wife,
25 Lynn. They're visiting us today, taking a
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1 tour. They're visiting with the Council of
2 State Governments.
3 And Michael understands what we do.
4 He is one who has had the problem, if you
5 will, or pleasure -- it depends upon the day,
6 I'm sure -- of leading a legislative body in
7 their endeavors to do the right thing for
8 their constituents.
9 He's also accompanied by Karyn
10 Leonard, the director of interparliamentary
11 and public relations of the Legislative
12 Assembly of Ontario, and her husband, Ken.
13 So I would ask that we give him and
14 them the appropriate award and acknowledgment
15 from the New York State Senate.
16 (Applause.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Thank
18 you, Senator Marcellino.
19 Mr. Brown, welcome. We're very
20 glad to have you join us here today. And as a
21 colleague, I'm sure you can appreciate the
22 nature of these deliberations. As your
23 neighbor to the south in the North Country,
24 welcome again to the Capitol.
25 Senator Libous.
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1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
2 Mr. President. If we could go back to
3 resolutions, please, there's a resolution by
4 Senator Kruger. And could its title be read
5 only.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
7 Secretary will read.
8 THE SECRETARY: By Senator C.
9 Kruger, Legislative Resolution Number 2288,
10 commending Yaakov and Rivka Kornreich upon the
11 occasion of their designation by Young Israel
12 of Avenue J as the Guests of Honor at its 28th
13 Annual Dinner on May 20, 2007.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: This
15 resolution was previously adopted by the
16 Senate on May 16th.
17 Senator Libous.
18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
19 Mr. President. I believe there is a
20 Resolution Number 2384 by Senator Perkins.
21 Could it be please read in its entirety.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
23 Secretary will read the resolution.
24 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
25 Perkins, Legislative Resolution Number 2384,
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1 mourning the death of Yolanda Denise King.
2 "WHEREAS, It is the practice of
3 this Legislative Body to record the passing of
4 certain individuals, recognizing them for
5 their valued contributions to their community,
6 their profession, and their heritage; and
7 "WHEREAS, Attendant to such concern
8 and fully in accord with its long-standing
9 traditions, it is the intent of this
10 Legislative Body to mourn the death of Yolanda
11 Denise King, eldest child of Dr. Martin Luther
12 King, Jr., and Coretta Scott King, in Santa
13 Monica, California, on May 15, 2007, at the
14 age of 51; and
15 "WHEREAS, Yolanda Denise King, who
16 pursued her father's dream of racial harmony
17 through drama and motivational speaking, was
18 an actress, author, producer and advocate for
19 peace and nonviolence, who was known and loved
20 for her motivational and inspirational
21 contributions to society; and
22 "WHEREAS, Yolanda Denise King,
23 'Yoki' to her family, was born on November 17,
24 1955, in Montgomery, Alabama, where her father
25 was then preaching. Considered by many to be
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1 the first daughter of the civil rights
2 movement, she lived with and through much of
3 the turbulence and trauma of the struggle; and
4 "WHEREAS, She was just two weeks
5 old when Rosa Parks refused to give up her
6 seat on a bus, leading to the Montgomery bus
7 boycott spearheaded by her father. On
8 January 30, 1956, when she was 10 weeks old,
9 the King family home was bombed when her
10 father attended a boycott rally. Fortunately,
11 neither she nor her mother was injured when
12 the device exploded on the front porch. And
13 she was only 12 years old when her father was
14 assassinated in Memphis, Tennessee, in 1968;
15 and
16 "WHEREAS, It was 7-year-old Yolanda
17 and her brothers and sister her father had in
18 mind when, in 1963, he spoke the words now
19 familiar to the entire world: 'I have a dream
20 that my four little children will one day live
21 in a nation where they will not be judged by
22 the color of their skin but by the content of
23 their character'; and
24 "WHEREAS, Yolanda King was a 1976
25 graduate of Smith College in Northampton,
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1 Massachusetts, where she majored in theater
2 and Afro-American studies. She also earned a
3 master's degree in theater from New York
4 University and, in 2002, received an honorary
5 Doctor of Humane Letters degree from Marywood
6 University; and
7 "WHEREAS, A warm and gentle person,
8 Yolanda King was a torchbearer for her parents
9 and a committed activist member in her own
10 right. She never wavered from her own
11 lifelong commitment to nonviolent social
12 change and justice for all and found her own
13 way of expressing that commitment through
14 drama; and
15 "WHEREAS, Yolanda King lived in
16 California. She was a talented actress,
17 founded and ran her own production company,
18 Higher Ground productions, and appeared in
19 numerous films and television productions,
20 including 'Ghosts of Mississippi,' 'Odessa,'
21 'Death of a Prophet,' 'Hopscotch,' 'JAG,' and
22 'Any Day Now.' She also played Rosa Parks in
23 the miniseries 'King,' recently released on
24 DVD, and was the associate producer of the
25 1984 television production 'A Celebration of
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1 Life: A Tribute to Martin Luther King, Jr.'
2 and
3 "WHEREAS, She was a member of the
4 board of directors of the Martin Luther King
5 Jr. Center for Nonviolent Social Change, the
6 official national memorial to her father, and
7 was a founding director of the King Center's
8 Cultural Affairs Program. She served on the
9 Partnership Council of Habitat for Humanity,
10 was a member of the Southern Christian
11 Leadership Conference, a sponsor of the
12 Women's International League for Peace and
13 Freedom, and held a lifetime membership in the
14 NAACP; and
15 "WHEREAS, Yolanda King's death came
16 less than a year and a half after her mother,
17 Coretta Scott King, died in January 2006 after
18 battling ovarian cancer and the effects of a
19 stroke, a struggle which prompted Yolanda to
20 work with the American Heart Association to
21 raise awareness about strokes, especially
22 among African-Americans; and
23 "WHEREAS, During this year's
24 observance of Martin Luther King Day in
25 January 2007, the first since her mother's
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1 death, she proudly delivered a tribute to her
2 parents, performing a series of solo skits at
3 her father's Ebenezer Baptist Church in
4 Atlanta, including, among others, a recounting
5 of a girl's first ride on a desegregated bus
6 and of a college student's recollection of the
7 1963 campaign to desegregate Birmingham; and
8 "WHEREAS, She also urged the
9 audience to be a force for peace and love, to
10 remember that America has not yet achieved
11 peace and racial equality, and to use the King
12 holiday each year to examine their own beliefs
13 about prejudice; and
14 "WHEREAS, Yolanda King is survived
15 by her brothers, Martin Luther King III and
16 Dexter Scott King, and her sister, the
17 Reverend Bernice Albertine King, and many
18 friends and admirers; and
19 "WHEREAS, Yolanda King's life is a
20 reflection of her commitment to social change
21 and justice and equality for all, and her many
22 contributions will surely endure as an
23 inspiration to others; now, therefore, be it
24 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative
25 Body pause in its deliberations to honor the
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1 memory of Yolanda Denise King and to celebrate
2 her life, and be it further
3 "RESOLVED, That copies of this
4 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
5 to the family of Yolanda Denise King, with the
6 deepest condolences of this Legislative Body."
7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
8 Perkins, on the resolution.
9 SENATOR PERKINS: Thank you very
10 much, Mr. President. I want to thank you and
11 the leadership for having read this resolution
12 in its entirety.
13 They say that we are all products
14 of our times, and no one could exemplify that
15 more than Yolanda, who has lived her life in
16 quite an exemplary role, particularly in terms
17 of representing the legacy of not just her
18 father but also of her mother, both of whom
19 were obviously leaders in the civil rights
20 movement and the movement to move this country
21 to higher ground.
22 So it was a sad moment when she
23 passed, and at such a young age. But then it
24 is not how long we live, but how well we live.
25 And she lived a life that I think both her
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1 mother and father and all of us, really, are
2 proud of, as an American, as someone who
3 understood not only the civil rights movement
4 but her need to make a contribution to it.
5 So those young people who join us
6 here today, they have had the opportunity to
7 be a part of this Senate as it recognizes one
8 of the great moments in this country's history
9 through the legacy that she represented in
10 terms of the civil rights movement.
11 And so thank you very much. And
12 thank you for the honor of having been able to
13 recognize her here today. Thank you.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Thank
15 you, Senator Perkins.
16 The question is on the resolution.
17 All in favor signify by saying aye.
18 (Response of "Aye.")
19 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT:
20 Opposed, nay.
21 (No response.)
22 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
23 resolution is adopted.
24 Senator Libous.
25 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
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1 would you please recognize Senator Farley.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Senator
3 Farley.
4 SENATOR FARLEY: I have some very
5 exciting things, some motions.
6 On behalf of Senator Trunzo,
7 Mr. President, I move that the following bill
8 be discharged from its respective committee
9 and be recommitted with instructions to strike
10 the enacting clause. That's Senate Print
11 5776.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: So
13 ordered.
14 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, I
15 offer amendments to the following bills:
16 Senator LaValle, page 37, Calendar
17 409, Senate Print 3305;
18 Senator Larkin, page 46, Calendar
19 606, Senate Print 1047;
20 Senator Skelos, on page 47,
21 Calendar Number 640, Senate Print 435;
22 Senator DeFrancisco, on page 48,
23 Calendar Number 661, Senate Print 39;
24 Also for Senator Trunzo, on
25 page 56, Calendar Number 799, Senate Print
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1 2694;
2 For Senator Fuschillo, on page 60,
3 Calendar Number 870, Senate Print 5543;
4 And last, for Senator Maziarz, on
5 page 29, Calendar Number 121, Senate Print
6 948.
7 Mr. President, I ask that these
8 bills retain their place on the Third Reading
9 Calendar.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
11 amendments are received and adopted, and the
12 bills will retain their place on the Third
13 Reading Calendar.
14 Senator Libous.
15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
16 if we could attend to the noncontroversial
17 calendar, please.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
19 Secretary will read the noncontroversial
20 calendar.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 484, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 4080, an
23 act to amend Chapter 413 of the Laws of 2003
24 amending the Labor Law.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
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1 the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
5 the roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
9 bill is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 562, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 4167, an
12 act to repeal paragraph (e) of subdivision 4
13 of Section 209 of the Civil Service Law.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
15 the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
19 the roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
23 bill is passed.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 710, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 2977, an
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1 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
2 longevity in title.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
4 the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
8 the roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
12 bill is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 782, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 5295, an
15 act to amend the Civil Service Law, in
16 relation to negotiability.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
18 the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
22 the roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
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1 bill is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 783, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5406, an
4 act to amend the Retirement and Social
5 Security Law, in relation to providing prior
6 police service credit.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
8 the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
12 the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
16 bill is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 841, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print
19 4876, an act to amend the Estates, Powers and
20 Trusts Law, in relation to an order for the
21 purposes of conducting paternity testing.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
23 the last section.
24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
25 act shall take effect immediately.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
2 the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 53. Nays,
5 1. Senator Maltese recorded in the negative.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
7 bill is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 882, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 501, an
10 act to amend the County Law, in relation to
11 wireless communications surcharges.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: There
13 is a local fiscal impact note at the desk.
14 Read the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
18 the roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
22 bill is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 887, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print
25 2709, an act to amend the Town Law and the
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1 Village Law, in relation to the office of town
2 or village justice.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
4 the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
8 the roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
12 bill is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 890, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 3609, an
15 act to authorize the City of North Tonawanda.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: There
17 is a home-rule message at the desk.
18 Read the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
22 the roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
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1 bill is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 894, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4489, an
4 act to authorize the Hebrew Academy of the
5 Five Towns and Rockaway to file an
6 application.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
8 the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
12 the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 53. Nays,
15 1. Senator Bonacic recorded in the negative.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
17 bill is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 902, by Senator Little, Senate Print 5368, an
20 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in
21 relation to posting copies.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
23 the last section.
24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
25 act shall take effect immediately.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
2 the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
6 bill is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 904, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 5504,
9 an act to authorize Pederson-Krag Center of
10 New York to file an application for exemption.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
12 the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51. Nays,
19 3. Senators Bonacic, Rath and Robach recorded
20 in the negative.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
22 bill is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 907, by Senator Winner, Senate Print 1721, an
25 act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control
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1 Law and the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in
2 relation to the imposition of driver's license
3 suspensions.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
5 the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
7 act shall take effect on the first of
8 November.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
10 the roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52. Nays,
13 2. Senators Duane and Montgomery recorded in
14 the negative.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
16 bill is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 910, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 3974, an
19 act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, in
20 relation to the surrogate decision-making
21 program.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
23 the last section.
24 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
25 act shall take effect immediately.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
2 the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
6 bill is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 919, by Senator Flanagan --
9 SENATOR DUANE: Lay it aside,
10 please.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Lay it
12 aside.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 920, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 3538, an
15 act to amend Chapter 154 of the Laws of 1921,
16 relating to the Port Authority of New York and
17 New Jersey.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
19 the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect upon enactment into law
22 by the State of New Jersey.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
24 the roll.
25 (The Secretary called the roll.)
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1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
3 bill is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 923, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 4663, an
6 act to amend the Not-for-Profit Corporation
7 Law, in relation to authorization.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
9 the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
13 the roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
17 bill is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 924, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 4802,
20 an act to amend Chapter 672 of the Laws of
21 1993, amending the Public Authorities Law.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
23 the last section.
24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
25 act shall take effect immediately.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
2 the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
6 bill is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 931, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3905, an
9 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
10 meetings of councils of state-operated
11 institutions.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Read
13 the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: Call
17 the roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: The
21 bill is passed.
22 Senator Libous, that completes the
23 reading of the noncontroversial calendar.
24 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
25 Mr. President.
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1 If we could call a Rules Committee
2 meeting in Room 332 and have the Senate stand
3 temporarily at ease.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT WRIGHT: There
5 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules
6 Committee in the Majority Conference Room.
7 The Senate will stand at ease.
8 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
9 ease at 3:40 p.m.)
10 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened
11 at 3:50 p.m.)
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
13 Senate will come to order.
14 Senator Libous.
15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
16 can we return to reports of standing
17 committees.
18 I believe there's a Rules report at
19 the desk that needs to be read at this time.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
21 Secretary will read the report of the Rules
22 Committee.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno,
24 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
25 following bills:
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1 Senate Print 5848, by Senator
2 Skelos, an act to amend the Executive Law;
3 5888, by Senator Lanza, an act to
4 amend the Executive Law;
5 5892, by Senator Saland, an act to
6 amend the Education Law;
7 And Senate Print 5902, by Senator
8 Padavan, an act to amend the Penal Law and
9 others.
10 All bills ordered direct to third
11 reading.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
13 Libous.
14 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
15 could we go back to the noncontroversial
16 calendar, I believe Calendar Number 919, by
17 Senator Flanagan, and take it up at this time.
18 Mr. President, could I move to
19 accept the report of the Rules Committee
20 before we do that.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Most
22 certainly.
23 We have a motion to accept the
24 report of the Rules Committee. All in favor
25 signify by saying aye.
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1 (Response of "Aye.")
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:
3 Opposed, nay.
4 (No response.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
6 Rules Committee report is accepted.
7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
8 919 is on the controversial calendar. So
9 could you please ring the bell.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
11 Secretary will ring the bell for Calendar
12 Number 919.
13 And the Secretary will read.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 919, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 3491A,
16 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law and
17 others.
18 SENATOR DUANE: Explanation,
19 please.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
21 Flanagan, for an explanation.
22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes,
23 Mr. President. Thank you.
24 This bill, I would respectfully
25 offer, is in addition to the good work that
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1 was done in 2005 by Senator Leibell,
2 Assemblyman Brodsky and the Legislature in
3 conjunction with Governor Pataki. We take
4 some of those standards, some of those
5 principles, and frankly I think we move them
6 forward.
7 And I would offer a couple of
8 observations and speak to several components
9 within the bill that I think are important for
10 the Senate's consideration.
11 Probably the most notable portion
12 of this bill is the creation of an independent
13 authority budget office. We changed the
14 statute from 2005 so we make it very clear
15 that the authority budget office will now be
16 separate and distinct, that it will not be
17 under the control and jurisdiction of the
18 Executive department, so frankly it can be as
19 it was intended to be, an independent
20 authority budget office.
21 In that context, we also provide
22 for some rules and regulations in terms of how
23 that director will be chosen. It's a
24 five-year term. It's a panel that makes that
25 determination. And that director can only be
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1 removed for cause.
2 In addition to that, we take some
3 of the principles that were enunciated in 2005
4 through hearings and corporate governance
5 principles that were espoused by Ira Milstein,
6 and we take that further. We bring it into
7 this year. We had an hearing earlier this
8 year with the Assembly on issues involving
9 corporate governance.
10 And I think what we offer is
11 getting to that next plateau, talking about a
12 fiduciary duty, establishing what the
13 standards may be, allowing the authority
14 budget office to promulgate rules and
15 regulations to effectuate the mission, making
16 sure that our public authorities actually come
17 up with mission statements, that they have to
18 provide information not only to the
19 Legislature but to the authority budget office
20 so that they can do a critical and fair
21 analysis of public authority operations in the
22 State of New York.
23 And if you go back just a couple of
24 years, I may be off by a little bit, but there
25 are roughly 733 public authorities in the
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1 State of New York. They control over
2 $113 billion of debt. So we are talking about
3 real money, and we are talking about a
4 separate government that we are frankly trying
5 to control.
6 So we have an independent authority
7 budget office, we have a director that is
8 chosen in a new and particular way, we have a
9 whole set of standards that have to be adhered
10 to. We also allow for subpoena power. We
11 give the authority to publicly warn and
12 censure. We also allow for the Comptroller to
13 approve contracts, and we set a standard so
14 that the Comptroller has discretion below a
15 certain amount. But beyond a certain amount,
16 the Comptroller has to take a look at
17 authority contracts.
18 And finally, we offer two other
19 things. One is the whole concept of a
20 fiduciary duty. We do have challenges not
21 only in the capacity in which we serve, but
22 when you're looking at public authorities on a
23 state and local basis, we want to remind
24 people of who they are, what they're there
25 for, and the fact that they are there to serve
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1 the public interest.
2 By setting standards, making people
3 sign an oath, making them realize that they
4 have to adhere to those standards, we're
5 hopefully raising the bar in the context of
6 that discussion.
7 And last but by no means least, we
8 offer whistleblower protection to people who
9 would help ferret out corruption, waste and
10 fraud in our public authorities.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Any
12 other Senator wishing to be heard?
13 Senator Perkins.
14 SENATOR PERKINS: Yeah, would the
15 Senator yield for a question?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
17 Flanagan, will you yield for a question?
18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
20 Perkins.
21 SENATOR PERKINS: Senator
22 Flanagan, I'd like to know if this legislation
23 addresses the concerns of minority, women and
24 business enterprises.
25 SENATOR FLANAGAN: There is no
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1 specific language in the bill on that subject.
2 SENATOR PERKINS: One of the --
3 may I have another question?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
5 Flanagan, do you continue to yield?
6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
8 Perkins.
9 SENATOR PERKINS: Through you,
10 Mr. President, if the sponsor will yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
12 sponsor yields, yes.
13 SENATOR PERKINS: Thank you.
14 The other concern I have is with
15 regard to the voice of the minority
16 conferences with respect to this legislation.
17 Is the -- does the minority conference in the
18 Assembly or the Senate have a voice that will
19 be recorded at the PACB?
20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: There is no
21 change from the present statute.
22 SENATOR PERKINS: Again, will the
23 sponsor yield for a question.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
25 Flanagan, do you continue to yield?
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1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
3 Perkins.
4 SENATOR PERKINS: It is my
5 understanding that in the negotiations, these
6 issues were brought up, the minority, women
7 and business enterprises as well as the
8 minority voice to be recorded, and that there
9 was some movement to accept that. Am I
10 correct?
11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: No.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
13 Perkins, do you wish to --
14 SENATOR PERKINS: May I ask
15 another question?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
17 Flanagan, will you yield for an additional
18 question?
19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
21 Perkins.
22 SENATOR PERKINS: As I understand
23 it, Assemblyman Brodsky had a different point
24 of view and a positive point of view about
25 this. Am I correct?
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
2 Flanagan.
3 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Two
4 observations. One, I don't speak for
5 Assemblyman Brodsky, I have enough challenge
6 speaking for myself. So I'm not going to
7 characterize any of his remarks.
8 On the issue that you raise, there
9 was never any language offered and never any
10 further discussion, to the best of my
11 knowledge.
12 SENATOR PERKINS: Well, the fact
13 that -- may I?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
15 Flanagan, will you continue to yield?
16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
18 Perkins.
19 SENATOR PERKINS: Again, with
20 respect to prevailing wage, this was brought
21 up at the negotiating sessions. Am I correct?
22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes.
23 SENATOR PERKINS: This was
24 brought up at the negotiation sessions by
25 Assemblyman Brodsky. Am I correct?
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1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes.
2 SENATOR PERKINS: And as with --
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Do you
4 continue to ask the sponsor to yield, Senator
5 Perkins?
6 SENATOR PERKINS: Will he
7 continue to yield?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
9 Flanagan, do you continue to yield?
10 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes, I will.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
12 Perkins.
13 SENATOR PERKINS: And as with the
14 prevailing wage and MWBE and the minority
15 voice to be recorded, I believe -- I'm
16 positive that Assemblyman Brodsky was in
17 agreement with that, as you have indicated he
18 was agreement with the other two matters.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: What is
20 the nature of your question, sir?
21 SENATOR PERKINS: I want to know
22 if he recalls.
23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator
24 Perkins, in response to your question and
25 going back, I want to be absolutely clear. I
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1 don't speak for Assemblyman Brodsky. I'm not
2 going to characterize his remarks. I was in
3 several different meetings in which these
4 issues were raised.
5 I would respectfully offer to you
6 that they were raised. In my opinion, they
7 were not discussed in detail. There was never
8 any language offered from anyone concerning
9 these subjects.
10 SENATOR PERKINS: Will the
11 sponsor yield?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
13 Flanagan, will you continue to yield?
14 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
16 Perkins.
17 SENATOR PERKINS: The
18 negotiations have not concluded, have they?
19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I don't
20 believe they have.
21 SENATOR PERKINS: Will the
22 sponsor continue to yield?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
24 Flanagan, do you continue to yield?
25 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
2 Perkins.
3 SENATOR PERKINS: It seems to me
4 that this legislation is precluding the
5 negotiations, short-circuiting the
6 negotiations. I'm sure you would agree.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
8 Flanagan.
9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I would
10 absolutely and completely disagree.
11 If anything, Senator Perkins, I
12 would tell you that I believe this will help
13 advance any negotiations. Because I sat in
14 meetings with a number of different people,
15 and I found that the tenor and tone of those
16 negotiations, they were moving positively
17 forward, then they stalled and in my opinion
18 they took a severe step backward.
19 And I would hasten to add that I
20 think the particular reason that we took a
21 step backward was because for some reason the
22 Executive found it within their discretion and
23 wisdom to retreat from positions that they not
24 only held during these negotiations but
25 certainly to treat from positions that were
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1 taken by our Governor when he was Attorney
2 General.
3 SENATOR PERKINS: Let me say
4 that, if I may --
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
6 Perkins, are you asking a question?
7 SENATOR PERKINS: Will he
8 continue to yield?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
10 Flanagan, will you continue to yield?
11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
13 Perkins.
14 SENATOR PERKINS: As you know,
15 this conference is very committed to reforming
16 the public authorities and has faithfully
17 participated in the negotiations and put
18 forward some very, very important concerns
19 that we believe would have made the reforms
20 more beneficial to the people of the State of
21 New York.
22 Not having MWBE and a minority
23 voice to be recorded in, or even to include
24 the prevailing wage, and even at this point
25 ending the negotiations or bringing forth this
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1 legislation without the negotiations being
2 concluded, as I pointed out earlier, seems to
3 be circumventing.
4 So I think there's more work to be
5 done. And I look forward to continue working
6 with you so that we come up with some
7 legislation that truly speaks to the interests
8 of the people in terms of reform and
9 transparency.
10 Thank you.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
12 you, Senator Perkins.
13 Any other Senator wishing to be
14 heard?
15 Debate is closed.
16 The Secretary will ring the bell.
17 Senator Liz Krueger.
18 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
19 Thank you, Mr. President.
20 Would the sponsor please yield?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Will
22 the sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
25 Krueger.
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1 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
2 Does this bill address IDAs in any
3 way? Are they under the same rules and
4 requirements as other public authorities in
5 the context of your bill, Senator?
6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I believe that
7 it does.
8 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
9 Mr. President. If, through you, the sponsor
10 would continue to yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Will
12 you continue to yield, Senator Flanagan?
13 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes, I do.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
15 Krueger.
16 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: And public
17 benefit corporations as well as public
18 authorities and IDAs are also included under
19 the same rules and regulations of this bill?
20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes.
21 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
22 Mr. President, if the sponsor would
23 continue to yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Do you
25 yield, Senator Flanagan?
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1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes, I do.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
3 Krueger.
4 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
5 And does this bill address the
6 concern that I believe we discussed back in
7 the 2005 public authority reform about
8 lobbyists not being able to -- not that they
9 can't lobby IDAs and public authorities and
10 public benefit corporations, but they would be
11 obligated under the same ethics and lobbying
12 laws as if they were lobbying government
13 agencies?
14 SENATOR FLANAGAN: On that point,
15 Mr. President, that issue has been advanced in
16 discussions with all the different parties in
17 five-way negotiations. I think the most
18 reticence and the most unwillingness to
19 embrace that concept came from the Executive.
20 But I want to be fair. I think
21 what they're essentially grappling with is how
22 they're going to do this on an overall basis.
23 I believe that within the context
24 of public authorities that the same type of
25 laws that apply to those who lobby before the
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1 Legislature should be the same standard for
2 our public authorities.
3 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
4 Mr. President, if through you the sponsor
5 would continue to yield.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Will
7 you continue to yield, Senator Flanagan?
8 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
10 Krueger.
11 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
12 Just to rephrase my last question.
13 Is it in the bill that it's the
14 same lobbying requirements and ethics rules
15 for public benefit corporations, public
16 authorities and IDAs as we passed for
17 government agencies? Or were you explaining
18 your own hope that we would get there? I
19 didn't quite understand whether you were
20 talking about that was in the bill now as
21 we're seeing it.
22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: It is not in
23 the bill.
24 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: It is not
25 in the bill.
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1 Thank you, Mr. President. If the
2 sponsor would continue to yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
4 Flanagan, do you continue to yield?
5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes, I do.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
7 Krueger.
8 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
9 Are there any changes to the PACB
10 in this bill?
11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: No.
12 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
13 Mr. President. I'd like to speak on the bill.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
15 Krueger, on the bill.
16 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
17 I thank the Senator for his answers.
18 I by and large support this bill.
19 It goes down many of the roads I think it is
20 important for us to be going down. As was
21 said by my colleague Senator Perkins, many of
22 us want exactly the same things in changes to
23 our laws around public authorities, IDAs and
24 public benefit corporations, including greater
25 transparency, more documentation, more
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1 reporting, more access by the public to the
2 information.
3 I wish that as Senator Flanagan
4 described there wasn't, as he perceives, a
5 breakdown in the negotiations. And I am
6 hopeful that everyone will get back to the
7 table on this, because this bill doesn't go
8 far enough. And there are still some serious
9 concerns out there.
10 I personally would very much like
11 the same lobbying requirements and ethics
12 rules and mandatory reporting and transparency
13 whenever we are negotiating or contracting out
14 or moving government money through -- whether
15 it's a state agency, a public benefit
16 corporation, an IDA or a public authority.
17 I personally would like to see far
18 more transparency in the process for the
19 public and for those in elected office. I
20 don't think the current PACB is the best
21 model. I wish that we had greater inclusion
22 of other players in the Public Authority
23 Control Board. I wish certainly that at
24 minimum, and I say sincerely at minimum, that
25 anyone who's a participant in the PACB and has
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1 a concern raised ought to have that concern
2 reflected in the public minutes of the Public
3 Authority Control Board.
4 I also believe that there is
5 significant territory that we would come to
6 agreement on if we continue to negotiate with
7 all the parties involved.
8 So I will support the bill. But I
9 hope that in continuation of negotiations,
10 through conference committee with the Assembly
11 and the Governor's office and discussions with
12 the minorities as well as the majorities,
13 we'll end up with a better bill at the end of
14 the year before June 22nd.
15 Thank you, Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Are
17 there any other Senators wishing to be heard?
18 Senator Stavisky.
19 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Stavisky's
20 over here someplace. And actually we don't
21 look anything alike. But that's all right,
22 you're new.
23 Mr. President, on the bill.
24 I think that I can understand the
25 sponsor's feeling that maybe this will
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1 jump-start the negotiations. It seems to be
2 bogged down just a little bit, and hopefully
3 that passing this bill will help.
4 I know that Senator Perkins brought
5 up some parts that were brought up by the
6 minority in the conversations. Hopefully as
7 we continue with negotiations beyond this
8 point, that possibly those things may get a
9 little bit more light.
10 I would like to point out, though,
11 that language was offered up on the recorded
12 voice of the minority members of the PACB.
13 That the sponsor didn't see it, I can't be
14 responsible for that. But I know that I
15 happened to be at the meeting where we passed
16 that along.
17 And it just seems like a crazy rule
18 that you can make a statement in the meeting
19 and then if one of the three voting parties
20 say, "Well, we don't want that to be part of
21 the meeting," that's a little bit beyond "this
22 is my ball and you guys can't play."
23 But the fact is as long as we're
24 cleaning things up, that would be reasonable
25 cleanup, since they still don't want the
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1 minorities to vote. And possibly if that's
2 the least you can get, I don't think it's a
3 bad compromise to at least give us a recorded
4 vote when you do bring up a strong point in
5 the process okaying some kind of financial
6 investment with the money of the people of the
7 State of New York.
8 So I think that there's a lot of
9 things in the bill that we like. Hopefully
10 through further negotiations we can get other
11 things in.
12 I understand that the sponsor said
13 that the Governor's people are really
14 interested in doing lobbying in a separate
15 bill. And I might be able to understand that
16 also, to try to handle all lobbying in one as
17 we go forward. We did one lobbying bill
18 already. They want to look at how to do the
19 rest of that in some other table. And
20 hopefully that will take place.
21 So with those things in mind, I
22 really don't have any trouble supporting this
23 bill, and I will be voting for it.
24 Thank you.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
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1 you, Senator Stachowski.
2 Anyone else wishing to speak?
3 Debate is closed. The Secretary
4 will ring the bell.
5 Read the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 36. This
7 act shall take effect on the 60th day.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
9 the roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
12 Flanagan, to explain his vote.
13 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you,
14 Mr. President.
15 I want to make two basic points.
16 The first is I feel very strongly that this is
17 a push in the right direction on reform.
18 There are a number of strong components within
19 this bill that I think everybody can support
20 quite easily.
21 Senator Krueger, I want to clarify
22 an answer that I gave to you on one of your
23 questions. Regarding lobbying, the previous
24 law that we enacted applied to state agencies
25 and kept the same standards that exist for
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1 lobbying the Legislature. That applies to
2 public authorities as well.
3 The discussion that has been
4 ongoing but not included is what about
5 incidental contact. You know, sort of the
6 nominal contact -- who comes in, when do they
7 come in, who are they going to see.
8 But the way it is set up, when
9 people lobby us, the same standard applies
10 from the old law in relation to public
11 authorities. That's a very positive thing.
12 Thank you.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
14 Perkins, to explain his vote.
15 SENATOR PERKINS: Thank you very
16 much.
17 I want to acknowledge again that I
18 think we've made a step in the right
19 direction, but not much of a step that would
20 convince me to support this bill. The
21 minority and women business enterprises being
22 absent from this bill is very, very
23 significant, as well as the prevailing wage
24 discussion.
25 And I think that the fact that
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1 negotiations are still going on is
2 significant. For some reason, all of a sudden
3 this bill has come, and I guess it's to force
4 the Governor's hand or to get negotiations to
5 move forward in some way.
6 But I think if that's going to
7 happen, then it has to include some of what we
8 discussed earlier where there seems to have
9 been some very positive movement. This bill
10 is too silent on these very, very important
11 areas, especially since it also does not
12 include any changes with the Public
13 Authorities Control Board. And having more
14 public involvement and participation I think
15 is also where there's room for improvement.
16 So again, I'm going to have to vote
17 no on this bill for those reasons and look
18 forward to continuing to work to make a better
19 bill for the people.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
21 Perkins in the negative.
22 Senator Montgomery, to explain her
23 vote.
24 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes,
25 Mr. President. As my colleagues, I have some
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1 concerns.
2 There are some areas where there
3 are still negotiations being done, and I'm
4 happy to know that that is an ongoing process.
5 I understand that this is not the final bill.
6 And so I appreciate that there are some pieces
7 that are still undone.
8 But I believe there are more areas
9 of agreement than there are disagreement. And
10 I'd just like to say, Mr. President, that this
11 has been a very, very long and arduous process
12 and we've taken it in pieces. We did -- this
13 last session, I think we did a pretty good job
14 of beginning to really reform the authorities
15 and the way that they do business and the way
16 that they do the business of the state. This
17 goes even further. I think that we're getting
18 there.
19 So the process has begun. I
20 believe that we will finish this by the end of
21 this session. I hope that the Majority Leader
22 is sincere in that he really wants to have a
23 negotiated bill and a resolution. And so I'm
24 going to support this effort to begin moving
25 toward an end where we have a real bill in
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1 place.
2 Thank you, Mr. President. I vote
3 aye.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
5 Montgomery in the affirmative.
6 Announce the results.
7 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
8 the negative on Calendar Number 919 are
9 Senators Adams, Duane, Gonzalez, Parker and
10 Perkins.
11 Ayes, 56. Nays, 5.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
13 bill is passed.
14 Senator Libous.
15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
16 could we go back to motions and please call on
17 Senator Nozzolio, please.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Motions
19 and resolutions.
20 The chair recognizes Senator
21 Nozzolio.
22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you,
23 Mr. President.
24 On behalf of Senator DeFrancisco, I
25 wish to call up Calendar Number 835, Assembly
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1 Print Number 7376.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
3 Secretary will read.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 835, by Member of the Assembly Weinstein,
6 Assembly Print Number 7376, an act to amend
7 the Real Property Actions and Proceedings Law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
9 Nozzolio.
10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I now move to
11 reconsider the vote by which this Assembly
12 bill was substituted for Senator DeFrancisco's
13 bill, Senate Print Number 4210, on May 15th.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
15 the roll on reconsideration.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I now move
19 that Assembly Bill Number 7376 be recommitted
20 to the Committee on Judiciary and that the
21 Senate Bill be restored to the order of Third
22 Reading Calendar.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: So
24 ordered.
25 Senator Libous.
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1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
2 could we have the reading of the
3 noncontroversial Rules report calendar,
4 please.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: We will
6 now have the reading of the noncontroversial
7 Rules report.
8 The Secretary will read.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1173, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5848, an
11 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
12 collection of DNA samples.
13 SENATOR SMITH: Lay it aside.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Lay it
15 aside.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1174, by Senator Lanza, Senate Print 5888, an
18 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
19 establishing an advisory council.
20 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Lay it
21 aside.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Lay it
23 aside.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 1175, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5892, an
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1 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
2 creating the Children's Healthy Access to
3 Meals Program.
4 SENATOR SMITH: Lay it aside.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Lay it
6 aside.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1176, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 5902,
9 an act to amend the Penal Law and others, in
10 relation to human trafficking.
11 SENATOR SMITH: Lay that bill
12 aside.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Lay it
14 aside.
15 Senator Libous, that completes the
16 noncontroversial reading of the calendar.
17 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
18 seeing that those bills are all laid aside,
19 can we now take up the controversial calendar,
20 starting with Bill Number 1173, by Senator
21 Skelos.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
23 Secretary will read.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 1173, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 5848, an
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1 act to amend the Executive Law.
2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:
3 Explanation, please.
4 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
6 Skelos.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe
8 Senator Schneiderman has asked for an
9 explanation, and I'd be delighted to give him
10 one.
11 This is the Governor's program bill
12 concerning the expansion of the DNA database.
13 I should point out what the Governor has done
14 here is really he's cut and pieced together
15 and pasted many bills that have passed the
16 Senate on numerous occasions but unfortunately
17 have not found their place within the Assembly
18 floor for passage.
19 For example, last year this house
20 passed legislation which I sponsored which
21 would expand the DNA database to all crimes.
22 The Assembly would not pass it, but we did
23 expand it to, of course, all felonies and some
24 misdemeanors, which would be about 50 percent
25 of the total crimes.
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1 It requires the DNA samples to be
2 given by persons adjudicated to be youthful
3 offenders. The Senate has previously passed
4 this legislation; the Assembly has not.
5 It requires a person who must
6 register as a sex offender coming from another
7 state to also give a DNA sample. This is a
8 new component of the legislation, which
9 certainly as the sponsor of Megan's Law and
10 this conference, supporting the constant
11 strength of Megan's law, would be supportive
12 of.
13 Statute of limitations. It tolls
14 the running of the statute of limitations --
15 this is the Governor's bill -- for five years
16 for prosecution of any crime for which DNA
17 evidence is found at the crime scene but
18 there's no match in the DNA database. This
19 house has passed on several occasions,
20 including this year, my legislation which
21 would toll the statute of limitations
22 indefinitely where DNA evidence is found at
23 the crime scene.
24 It creates an office of wrongful
25 conviction review. Prior to this year, the
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1 Senate has supported legislation which would
2 create a commission to carry out similar
3 duties.
4 There's also legislation concerning
5 evidence standards, the collection of DNA
6 evidence, an optional local government fee,
7 and also an Innocence Project, which I recall
8 was in one of my first DNA bills that I passed
9 that did have an Innocence Project in it but
10 for some reason the Assembly would not support
11 that legislation.
12 So this is the Governor's program
13 bill in which he's taken legislation that the
14 Senate has passed in many instances, put it
15 all together, and is calling it the Governor's
16 program bill.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
18 Schneiderman.
19 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank the
20 sponsor for that interesting explanation.
21 Mr. President, I believe there's an
22 amendment at the desk. I ask that the reading
23 of the amendment be waived and that I be heard
24 on the amendment.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Reading
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1 is waived. You may be heard on the amendment.
2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
3 Mr. President.
4 I think today is a fascinating
5 exercise in the bifurcated procedure in which
6 we are engaged in this year in the New York
7 State Legislature. Senator Skelos and I and
8 others were just downstairs, along with Leader
9 Smith and Senator Bruno, discussing with the
10 Governor, really being led in negotiations
11 with the Governor on the DNA bill that we are
12 now addressing on the floor.
13 And in the course of that
14 discussion -- in which I actually believe we
15 came very close to working out the parameters
16 of a bill that can be embraced by both houses
17 and finally passed -- several issues were
18 raised that are in fact addressed in this
19 amendment. So this is something that I
20 consider more in the way of a friendly
21 amendment.
22 I agree with virtually everything
23 Senator Skelos said, particularly the parts in
24 which he successfully identified himself as
25 the original sponsor of many of these
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1 provisions. But in addition I agree with the
2 point that this is a bill that seeks to make
3 DNA evidence as widely available as possible
4 to exonerate the innocent and to convict the
5 guilty. That is the overall vision that the
6 Governor articulated downstairs, the Governor
7 articulated in introducing this bill, and I
8 agree that that's what we should be doing.
9 There are several areas in which I
10 personally believe this bill has problems, and
11 I would like to suggest three in this
12 amendment. And I would urge my colleagues --
13 I realize these are nontraditional times.
14 Perhaps if we as a body do adopt this
15 amendment, I think we'd bring back to the
16 Governor a better bill than the one he sent
17 us.
18 The first area in which I would
19 suggest we modify this legislation is with
20 regard to the provision for the preservation
21 of biological evidence, Section 5 of the
22 Governor's program bill. The Governor's
23 program bill provides for voluntary
24 guidelines, guidelines that would be optional
25 for the preservation of DNA evidence.
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1 Now, you all were here last week
2 and the week before when we were joined by
3 some people who worked with the Innocence
4 Project and other organizations and had been
5 exonerated by DNA evidence after years of
6 incarceration. In several of these cases
7 there were people there whose DNA was simply
8 lost in the system.
9 One man from the Bronx, Al Newton,
10 a very articulate gentleman, kept asking that
11 they run his DNA against the database because
12 he hadn't committed the crime. The assistant
13 district attorney kept contacting the
14 warehouse in Queens and kept being told the
15 DNA was lost.
16 The DNA wasn't lost; he just didn't
17 have the voucher number, so they couldn't find
18 it. It was in a barrel with his name on it.
19 Can you imagine doing a decade in prison for a
20 crime you didn't commit because they lost your
21 DNA?
22 Well, unfortunately this bill, as
23 currently drafted, only provides for voluntary
24 protocols for the storage of DNA and the
25 preservation of DNA, and provides no direction
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1 to any local authorities for how to catalog
2 DNA. So our modest suggestion to improve this
3 bill would be to change the language in
4 Section 5 to require a mandatory set of
5 guidelines for the preservation and cataloging
6 of DNA evidence. We think that is only good
7 sense. It does us no good to massively expand
8 the database if we're not going to adequately
9 preserve and catalog the evidence.
10 The second area in which this
11 amendment changes the Governor's bill is that
12 the innocence commission, which Senator Skelos
13 referred to, in this bill is really not an
14 independent agency. It is something that's
15 actually entitled the office of wrongful
16 conviction review. And under this provisions
17 of this legislation, it is located within the
18 Department of Criminal Justice Services.
19 In other words, the people who may
20 directly or indirectly have some
21 responsibility for the policies that could be
22 called into question by this commission are in
23 the same department as this commission.
24 There's no provision to ensure that it is
25 independent.
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1 So our suggestion is to make it an
2 independent agency outside of the Department
3 of Criminal Justice Services. And in our
4 amendment we provide some guidelines for how
5 we think that can best be done.
6 The final area -- and while this is
7 really, as I say, a friendly amendment and
8 done with all regard for the Governor's
9 absolutely effective and sincere efforts to
10 move us forward towards an expansion of the
11 DNA database and better utility of the DNA
12 database for the benefit of the innocent and
13 the conviction of the guilty, one thing in
14 this bill really just doesn't belong in this
15 bill, and that's the modification that's
16 included in Sections 11 through 17 of the
17 Governor's program bill, which is a change in
18 Article 440 of the Criminal Procedure Law.
19 This change could potentially have
20 a devastating impact on people who seek
21 post-conviction review of their cases.
22 I would commend to all of you the
23 excellent memo written on this specific issue
24 by the New York State Defenders Association,
25 which clearly identifies this as a -- if not a
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1 poison pill, then certainly a stowaway. This
2 is a provision that has nothing to do, really,
3 with DNA evidence. In fact, it would allow
4 people to continue to bring 440 proceedings to
5 seek relief if they had newly discovered
6 evidence, such as DNA, but it would limit them
7 to one year after their conviction to bring
8 any other action for relief.
9 So, for example, if someone was
10 denied their constitutional right to an
11 attorney, they now would not be able to bring
12 an application for relief if they only
13 realized they had that right a year later. If
14 there was coercion, there was improper
15 prosecutorial conduct, those applications
16 would be barred after one year.
17 That is unfair. Particularly
18 people who are running through the system,
19 located in prison, no access to a lawyer, lack
20 of clarity as to their rights, that's an
21 unnecessary and unfair burden. And I would
22 suggest we take that out. Take that out, make
23 the office of wrongful conviction review into
24 a real innocence commission, and let's change
25 the protocols for the safe storage and
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1 cataloging of DNA evidence. And then what is
2 a good bill could become a great bill.
3 And I would urge, Mr. President,
4 that all of my colleagues on both sides of the
5 aisle really should support these amendments.
6 It does modify the Governor's bill. We talked
7 about all of those issues openly with the
8 Governor downstairs. He expressed his
9 interest in reviewing them. So I don't say
10 this -- this is not done in any sort of a
11 hostile way. This is a part of our ongoing
12 discussion with the executive branch.
13 I am confident that with the
14 Governor's leadership in this area we are
15 going to pass a bill. But I would urge that
16 this amendment, the three provisions in this
17 amendment, are absolutely necessary if it's to
18 be done the right way.
19 Particularly, I do not see any way
20 that we're going to bring a bill to the floor
21 of both houses and get it signed into law this
22 year that includes the gutting of the 440
23 provision as done by the current draft of the
24 bill. So let's take that out. With those
25 modifications, Your Honor, I think we're
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1 prepared to go forward and I predict we will
2 have a DNA bill that makes us all proud before
3 the end of the session.
4 Thank you.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
6 you, counsel.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
9 Skelos.
10 SENATOR SKELOS: If I could just
11 comment on learned counsel's amendment.
12 I'm not going to really discuss the
13 pros and cons of the amendment, but I would
14 point out that we are truly on a path of
15 getting legislation passed once we go to
16 conference committee of the Legislature.
17 Conference committee is not just
18 with the Governor, conference committee is
19 supposed to be between the Senate and the
20 Assembly, where issues are resolved. And my
21 concern is with your amendment if the canvass
22 of agreement is agreed upon, as you know,
23 under the rules of the Senate, the bill then
24 has to go back to the committee of origin for
25 ten days. So we would not be able to have
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1 conference committee for at least ten days.
2 And that would come near the end of
3 conference, passage of the legislation would
4 be threatened. And quite honestly, I think it
5 would add to dysfunction, as you like to say,
6 to the legislative process, which we're trying
7 to avoid.
8 And really what we should be doing
9 today is passing this bill, going to joint
10 conference committee with the Assembly,
11 getting a result and then going to the
12 Governor and saying: Governor, this is what
13 the Legislature wants to do, you have your
14 right to veto or support the legislation.
15 So I would just urge my colleagues
16 who are truly interested in passing a DNA bill
17 this year that they not support the canvass of
18 agreement so that we can immediately get to
19 joint conference committee with the Assembly.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
21 Adams, on the amendment.
22 SENATOR ADAMS: Mr. President,
23 first I want to commend my colleague on the
24 amendment.
25 The issue of DNA is new. And when
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1 you look at the fact that one of the most
2 advanced police departments in the country was
3 unable to find just a voucher, you have to
4 stop and pause for a moment and ask yourself
5 this new technology that we have, are we doing
6 the right things with the infrastructure to
7 allow our police officers and police agencies
8 to properly use this technology.
9 Because the goal is not only to
10 ensure that we incarcerate, but the goal is to
11 also ensure that we don't allow innocent
12 people to serve time in jail for crimes that
13 they did not commit.
14 And if we are just merely looking
15 for political expediency, to say that, hey, we
16 passed the bill, that's fine for the other
17 guys. That's not fine for me. It's fine for
18 me to pass the right bill. And if there's an
19 important component that's missing that is
20 brought to our attention, the least we can do
21 is stop, pause, and rectify whatever the
22 problems are.
23 So merely to pass a DNA bill,
24 that's feel-good dysfunctional legislation.
25 Passing a bill that covers the issues that we
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1 believe are important, such as making sure the
2 infrastructure is in place that we can store
3 the DNA data, that police officers can
4 retrieve that data and we can ensure that a
5 crime is solved -- I always revert back to the
6 Central Park jogger case.
7 The person who was guilty of the
8 crime was allowed to stay out of jail and
9 continue his crime spree because we didn't use
10 the infrastructure that was available to
11 detect who was guilty of the crime in the
12 first place.
13 So I commend my colleague. And I
14 say to my colleagues across the aisle, the
15 goal is not merely just to pass a piece of
16 legislation, the goal is to pass the right
17 legislation that we won't have men and women
18 across this state spend 12 to 15 years in jail
19 because someone couldn't find a voucher.
20 Thank you, Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
22 Schneiderman.
23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
24 Mr. President.
25 Just in response to my comrade in
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1 arms in the effort to pass DNA legislation,
2 Senator Skelos, I just want to observe a
3 couple of things.
4 First of all, I don't think that
5 this bringing a motion is a cause of
6 dysfunctionality. This is not in any way
7 going to delay things. This bill is not
8 scheduled with the Assembly. And I assure
9 you, after my discussions with our colleagues
10 in the Assembly, it's not going to pass any
11 time soon.
12 There's no conference committee
13 scheduled now, so there's nothing we're
14 holding up. We could amend the bill to
15 accommodate these modest modifications --
16 modest but significant modifications -- move
17 it to the floor tomorrow and pass it.
18 But the dysfunctionality really
19 comes from the fact that we wouldn't have to
20 bring this amendment this way on the floor
21 through these formalistic procedures if the
22 people on this side of the aisle had input
23 into what bills actually come to the floor.
24 If we were in the conferences, if we had real
25 functional committees in this house, then we
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1 could all work these things out and report out
2 bills that did not exclude the representatives
3 of half the people of the state.
4 So that really is the
5 dysfunctionality I think we should address
6 with rules changes in this Majority -- or in
7 the next. In the meantime, I suggest everyone
8 vote yes for this amendment.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
10 Marcellino, on the amendment.
11 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
12 President, again, when we talk about passing
13 something for expedience, we're passing the
14 Governor's program bill here. This was
15 written by the Governor and his staff. And he
16 seemed to, according to what I've heard from
17 Senator Skelos, cobble together legislation
18 that had been passed several times in this
19 house before.
20 This bill, once passed, will go to
21 a conference committee, Senator. The purpose
22 of the conference committee is to reconcile
23 differences between what is passed in the
24 other house and what is passed in this house.
25 That's the legislative process as we do it
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1 here.
2 So we're not doing anything
3 expediently just for the purpose of passing a
4 bill. The process is it goes to conference
5 committees. We're urging the call immediately
6 for a conference committee. Pass the bill,
7 move to conference committees, reconcile the
8 differences and move on. The Governor says
9 yea or nay. That's his right, and we have
10 another say.
11 So I urge this canvass of agreement
12 be voted down. Let's proceed with the passage
13 of this bill, move on to conference
14 committees, as our colleague Senator Skelos
15 has said, and let's get this very important
16 piece of legislation done.
17 Thank you.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
19 Skelos.
20 SENATOR SKELOS: If I could just
21 perhaps close for this side on this argument,
22 I would point out that I believe in the Codes
23 Committee and the Finance Committee this bill
24 came out unanimously, except for Senator
25 Krueger voting without recommendation.
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1 So I think the bill has moved
2 along. Everybody recognizes the need for
3 something to be accomplished. And what I'm
4 saying, Senator Schneiderman, not that the
5 amendment is dysfunctional. You have the
6 right to do that. What I'm saying is this
7 bill being referred to committee now for
8 10 days if it were passed would add to a
9 disorderly dysfunctional closing of the
10 session, as was mentioned.
11 It came out of Rules. I meant the
12 Rules Committee.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
14 Schneiderman.
15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I hate to
16 prolong this, but would Senator Skelos yield
17 for one question? One question.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
19 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Is this
20 bill on the calendar in the Assembly? Or is
21 there any other indication -- we can't go to a
22 conference committee unless both houses pass
23 the bill. What are we going to conference if
24 we did pass this today?
25 SENATOR SKELOS: Well, the answer
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1 is very simple. We all agree that the
2 Assembly is totally dysfunctional.
3 (Laughter.)
4 SENATOR SKELOS: And what --
5 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: My silence
6 should not be taken as acquiescence.
7 SENATOR SKELOS: The Assembly has
8 bills that they could pass, the Speaker has
9 indicated. I believe he's the sponsor of one
10 that he was touting in the meeting we had
11 today with the Governor.
12 So I'm sure they could pass the
13 bill tomorrow if they wanted, if they're
14 serious about getting a result, just as we're
15 passing it today. And I believe Senator Bruno
16 would call conference committees
17 expeditiously.
18 So really I would urge you to ask
19 Speaker Silver to pass the bill and let's get
20 to conference committee if he's serious.
21 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
22 Mr. President. There is no bill on the
23 calendar for the Assembly.
24 But I thank the sponsor for his
25 answers.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
2 Duane, on the amendment.
3 SENATOR DUANE: Yes,
4 Mr. President. It should never be that a
5 legislative body just accepts something from
6 the chief executive, no matter what party that
7 person may be from.
8 It is always not only appropriate
9 but the responsibility of a legislative body
10 to deliberate. The bill that was placed
11 before us was obviously a starting point and
12 not the completion of the process.
13 In terms of dysfunction, I think
14 it's dysfunctional to only put a piece of
15 legislation -- which it's been acknowledged
16 has been around for a while -- but to just put
17 it on the floor -- actually, just to make
18 it -- to announce that it's going to be on the
19 floor the morning of the day when it's going
20 to be on the floor, and to rush it out to the
21 floor, that is irresponsible and something
22 that I think we could all agree, or I hope all
23 of us would agree and I know the advocates
24 would agree, that that is a dysfunctional way
25 to run a house of the Legislature.
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1 So having a healthy debate on --
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
3 Robach, why do you rise?
4 SENATOR ROBACH: Would Senator
5 Duane yield for a question?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
7 Duane, will you yield?
8 SENATOR DUANE: When I'm done
9 speaking, Mr. President, I'd be glad to.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
11 Duane.
12 SENATOR DUANE: So if we are to
13 be the deliberative body which I think the
14 people sent us here to be, then we would
15 provide for a longer and more inclusive way of
16 discussing and indeed debating legislation
17 than what I would characterize as springing it
18 on us even though the urgency of the matter
19 has been debunked.
20 Now I'll be pleased to respond to
21 any questions.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
23 Robach.
24 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, Senator
25 Duane, if you -- I guess my question would be
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1 so you think --
2 SENATOR DUANE: Are you doing it
3 through the President?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: I've
5 given him the floor, Senator Duane, for his
6 question to speak to you.
7 SENATOR ROBACH: I'm sorry. Mr.
8 President, through you, would Senator Duane
9 yield for a question?
10 SENATOR DUANE: Yes.
11 SENATOR ROBACH: Thank you.
12 My question is so you feel, from
13 your statement there, then, just for
14 clarification, that we who are embracing the
15 Governor's program bill on a series of bills
16 that we have passed here previously that we
17 think not only helps crime victims, children,
18 other people have been exploited but also can
19 exonerate people who are innocent by using
20 today's technology, the fingerprint of the
21 decade, DNA technology, that we've embraced,
22 that we are somehow getting pushed around from
23 the Governor and be dysfunctional -- but you,
24 who are all on a bill, over a weekend
25 conversation who got off on that, that's good
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1 government? I guess that's my question.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
3 Duane.
4 SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President,
5 the bill that we have before us today is
6 not -- and it's been characterized this way --
7 is not exactly the same as a bill that we've
8 had before us before. It's an amalgamation of
9 different bills, although it is missing the
10 amendment, the pieces that -- important
11 pieces, I would say -- that Senator
12 Schneiderman's amendment would include.
13 So I think that speaks to the need
14 for deliberations by the Legislature in its
15 entirety as it responds to the initial DNA
16 legislation that was put on the table by the
17 Governor.
18 And I have to say I have no idea
19 what the rest of the question was about,
20 but -- so I would say yes or no depending on
21 what the question was.
22 (Laughter.)
23 SENATOR ROBACH: I'll let you go.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
25 Morahan.
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1 SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you,
2 Mr. President. Would the sponsor please yield
3 for a few questions?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Will
5 the sponsor of the amendment please yield?
6 SENATOR MORAHAN: No, no, the
7 sponsor of the bill.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: We're
9 on the amendment, Senator.
10 SENATOR MORAHAN: I understand
11 that. I really wanted to ask the sponsor of
12 the bill if he would respond to a question.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
14 Skelos, will you yield?
15 SENATOR SKELOS: I think so.
16 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Mr.
17 President, I have the floor for the amendment.
18 We should vote on that. I think it's more
19 appropriate then on the bill for Senator
20 Morahan to conduct his inquiry, his vicious
21 cross-examination.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: He may
23 ask on any aspect of the bill, even though the
24 amendment is before us, because it is on the
25 bill. It is an amendment to the bill.
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1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I just ask
2 that we don't lose track of the fact that
3 we're now waiting to vote on the amendment.
4 I'm sure there are other points to be made on
5 the bill.
6 Thank you, Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
8 Morahan.
9 SENATOR MORAHAN: Just for
10 Senator Schneiderman's information, the
11 questions of Senator Skelos will deal with the
12 thoughts behind the amendment, if I could
13 proceed in a way that I would prefer to
14 proceed.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: You
16 may, Senator Morahan.
17 SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you. And
18 thank you, Senator Schneiderman.
19 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: You're
20 very welcome.
21 SENATOR MORAHAN: Senator Skelos,
22 I've been in this Legislature, in this body
23 for several years. Have we had these bills on
24 the floor before?
25 SENATOR SKELOS: As you know, as
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1 the liaison to the Governor, Senator Morahan,
2 every single one of these bills --
3 SENATOR MORAHAN: I withdraw the
4 questions. Thank you, Senator.
5 (Laughter.)
6 SENATOR SKELOS: Every single one
7 of these bills have passed the Senate.
8 SENATOR MORAHAN: Mr. President,
9 I withdraw the questions.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
11 question is withdrawn.
12 On the amendment, those Senators in
13 agreement please signify by raising your
14 hands.
15 Further discussion on the
16 amendment? Senator Krueger has a question on
17 the amendment.
18 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
19 Mr. President. Thank you, Senator. If the
20 sponsor of the amendment would please yield to
21 a question.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
23 Schneiderman, will you yield to a question
24 from Senator Krueger?
25 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, I'll
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1 be glad to.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
3 Liz Krueger.
4 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
5 Mr. President.
6 It seems we got into a very
7 confusing debate here. So just to clarify for
8 myself, Senator, as you explained in your
9 hostile amendment, if the bill were to become
10 law as it currently is, would some people who
11 have actually been exonerated with DNA
12 evidence under existing law risk not being
13 able to be exonerated in the future because of
14 this law?
15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
16 Through you, Mr. President. It doesn't apply
17 retroactively, in the sense that someone who
18 was exonerated will still be exonerated.
19 What this bill would do -- one of
20 the things this bill would do, and the thing
21 to which -- again, I emphasize, I strongly
22 support most parts of this bill. This is one
23 thing to which I strongly object -- is that it
24 would gut Criminal Procedure Law Article 440,
25 which is the provision that allows people
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1 post-judgment relief from a wrongful
2 conviction.
3 Now, this particular piece of
4 legislation does provide an exception for
5 newly discovered evidence. So some DNA
6 evidence, a person raising newly discovered
7 DNA evidence might still be allowed to bring a
8 440 application if this bill was passed.
9 However, this would impose a
10 one-year limitation on every other possible
11 type of application for post-judgment relief.
12 So the very serious problem that we have in
13 this state of denial of counsel, inadequate
14 service of counsel, where you have a situation
15 where someone may have a counsel who's drunk
16 or asleep, as happens in this case on those
17 very issues, might not realize they had a
18 claim until more than a year had passed.
19 Someone who was the victim of prosecutorial
20 misconduct.
21 So there is an exception in the
22 current legislation for newly discovered
23 evidence. And I credit the drafters with
24 that. This provision, however, would impose a
25 strict one-year-from-conviction deadline that
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1 would, I believe, endanger many, many people
2 wrongfully convicted in the sense that they
3 would no longer have a right they have today,
4 whenever they discover that they have a claim
5 for some sort of exculpation, that they can
6 bring their motion.
7 So that's the thing that I'm
8 concerned about on Article 440, Senator
9 Krueger.
10 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
11 Mr. President, on the amendment.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
13 Krueger, on the amendment.
14 SENATOR L. KRUEGER: Thank you.
15 I needed to ask the question and
16 get the answer clarified because in the
17 discussion it sounded like maybe we're just
18 having a minor technical debate about some of
19 the language somebody might not like that
20 could come out in a conference committee.
21 But as I was reading the materials,
22 my understanding -- and Senator Schneiderman
23 has confirmed it for me -- is that we could
24 pass a bill that we think is just about DNA
25 evidence, which we think is a win for
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1 everyone, that because it's not written
2 correctly or has sections in it that need to
3 be clarified, we could actually be doing
4 future harm to the ability in the State of
5 New York to allow people who have been
6 wrongfully convicted to ever have their day in
7 court for appeal.
8 So this is a dangerous mistake in
9 the bill. And it can be resolved. There is
10 no question it could be resolved. It could be
11 resolved without continued delays or
12 dysfunction to the Legislature.
13 I support the amendment -- thank
14 you, Senator Schneiderman -- and to save time
15 later, I'll vote against the bill for that
16 same reason.
17 Thank you, Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
19 question is on the amendment. Senators in
20 agreement again please signify by raising your
21 hand.
22 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
23 agreement are Senators Adams, Breslin, Connor,
24 Diaz, Dilan, Duane, Gonzalez,
25 Hassell-Thompson, Huntley, L. Krueger,
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1 Montgomery, Oppenheimer, Parker, Perkins,
2 Sabini, Sampson, Savino, Schneiderman,
3 Serrano, Smith, Stavisky, Stewart-Cousins and
4 Thompson.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
6 amendment is not agreed to.
7 On the bill. Is there any Senator
8 wishing to be heard on the bill?
9 Senator Duane.
10 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you,
11 Mr. President.
12 DNA technology is or can be both a
13 blessing and a curse. If we expand the DNA
14 database too quickly, then New York State is
15 going to encounter serious problems in
16 maintaining and utilizing the database
17 effectively. And this could lead to results
18 diametrically opposite of what it is that
19 we're trying to achieve here today.
20 You know, DNA experts and
21 technicians, those who work in crime labs and
22 law enforcement agencies in New York State are
23 already stretching their resources to the max.
24 There's a tremendous backlog now in DNA labs
25 across New York State. In 2006, the New York
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1 State Commission on Investigation reported
2 that -- and I'm quoting from them --
3 "Representatives of most of the state's
4 forensic laboratories express frustration
5 regarding the lack of funds available to
6 higher trained qualified forensic analysts."
7 District Attorney David Soares has
8 said on the record that mounting caseloads are
9 causing delays and problems, and his office
10 has been flooded with cases since the
11 expansion of the DNA database. And he is
12 probably one of the only ones who's willing to
13 be honest about it, because we know that other
14 district attorneys' offices are having
15 tremendous problems because they are not
16 coming up with the results in a timely manner.
17 There are many, many unanswered
18 questions regarding expanding the DNA
19 database. We don't really have proper
20 procedures in place for crime lab operations.
21 And let's face it, the backlogs which will
22 happen because of further expansion, you know,
23 combined with additional processing time,
24 which is already way too long, is going to
25 increase. And we still don't have procedures
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1 in place on the proper storage and disposal of
2 DNA samples that we already have that have
3 come from convicted and nonconvicted people.
4 You know, last year -- and I
5 protested about this -- the State Legislature
6 expand the DNA database hugely. Even though
7 there are already problems, we added even more
8 to it. And all of the questions that I and
9 others have never got answered.
10 So I would urge my colleagues not
11 to rush into a further expansion before we
12 really find out what we're doing, through
13 hearings with law enforcement personnel and of
14 course those who represent the innocents, but
15 especially people that run the crime labs,
16 people that run what I would call rogue DNA
17 databases, and other people in law
18 enforcement.
19 You know, there is evidence also
20 already that shows that expanding the DNA
21 database doesn't increase the amount of cold
22 kits leading to convictions. And I think
23 allegedly that's what people are most
24 interested in doing. I mean even if you don't
25 care about exonerating innocent people,
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1 chances are -- and I think we all agree to
2 this -- that we care about the number of cold
3 hits that you get.
4 And our own state DCJS says that
5 while there was an increase in cold hits after
6 1999, subsequent expansion saw a diminished
7 number of cold hits. And we don't even know
8 what happened as a result of what we did last
9 year.
10 So shouldn't we be focusing instead
11 on increased spending on training of personnel
12 and hiring of trained personnel to deal with
13 the database, the DNA database that we already
14 have, and other things that crime labs already
15 have? I mean, in some cases fingerprint
16 evidence is not even being handled and used
17 properly.
18 You know, I'm not here to question
19 the value or the need for DNA technology. It
20 certainly has produced amazing results. But
21 what we don't want to do is diminish the
22 possibility of continuing to have good
23 results. The way to do that is to expand the
24 database responsibly.
25 I know it sounds good in theory,
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1 you know, and it's an easy way to kind of just
2 say, oh, you know, we're going to expand the
3 DNA database and we're going to catch more bad
4 guys. But that's simply not the case. And
5 we're not ready to make that the case.
6 I really urge my colleagues to use
7 prudence when we consider expanding the DNA
8 database and use our resources more prudently
9 for training more staff, for hiring more
10 trained staff on the full range of evidence,
11 including DNA, of course. That's the better
12 way to capture the bad guys and not to
13 continue to needlessly incarcerate the
14 innocent.
15 So I urge my colleagues to vote no
16 until and unless we actually deal with the DNA
17 that we presently have in a prudent and
18 responsible manner.
19 Thank you, Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Any
21 other Senator wishing to be heard?
22 Senator Schneiderman.
23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
24 Mr. President. Very briefly on the bill.
25 I appreciate this debate. I
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1 believe, based on our discussion with the
2 Governor and the Assembly earlier today, we
3 will pass a DNA database bill that expands
4 both the requirements for cataloging and
5 preservation and the scope of the database
6 itself.
7 My disagreement with this is
8 somewhat narrower than that of Senator Duane,
9 who has been leading the effort to call for
10 caution in the expansion of the database here
11 for many years. My concern really is that if
12 we have the proper guidelines and we have the
13 proper protections for the innocent and we
14 have the proper privacy protections for people
15 whose DNA is in the system, then I really do
16 favor broad expansion.
17 I think DNA -- and a lot of people
18 lose track of this. Letting someone out
19 because we discover their DNA is not being
20 soft on crime. That is letting an innocent
21 person out. And that enables us to catch the
22 guilty person. So this is a tough-on-crime
23 provision to allow innocent people every
24 opportunity to demonstrate they did not commit
25 a crime.
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1 My only concern with this bill is
2 this -- and again, I won't call it a poison
3 pill, but this sort of stowaway provision
4 related to 440.
5 And, Senator Krueger, to amplify my
6 response to your question, one of the other
7 things I believe, under my reading of this
8 bill, that section would do is to prevent
9 defendants -- after conviction, so prevent
10 prisoners -- from seeking relief even if the
11 Court of Appeals changed the rules, discovered
12 that something in the procedures under which
13 they were convicted was done improperly, and
14 that prospectively that shouldn't be done
15 anymore. Currently that's the section of law
16 that allows people to go back in and challenge
17 their conviction to seek relief.
18 I think it needs a little more
19 work. I think that provision needs to come
20 out. But I am absolutely committed to working
21 with the Governor. And I wish everyone had
22 been downstairs today to watch him in the
23 meeting. He seems to listen to us. It was a
24 back-and-forth the kind of which I've frankly
25 never had in this house, where we were
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1 actually talking about revisiting issues and
2 renegotiating and redrafting as we went.
3 I am going to be voting against
4 this bill somewhat reluctantly, because I
5 think the overall vision is the vision we need
6 to follow. I look forward to voting yes on
7 another bill soon this session.
8 Thank you, Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
10 Skelos, to close debate.
11 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you,
12 Mr. President.
13 I want to point out since the last
14 expansion of the DNA database there have been
15 112 individuals that have been convicted
16 because of that expansion.
17 I also believe by expanding the DNA
18 database to include all crimes that you will
19 also see individuals who have been incorrectly
20 convicted of crimes a better chance of finding
21 them innocent. And certainly all of us
22 believe that a person who's unjustly convicted
23 of a crime and goes to jail, the more evidence
24 that we can gather to make sure that they are
25 eventually exonerated is the right way to go.
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1 And certainly this legislation, by
2 expanding the DNA database, I think will put
3 more people in jail that deserve to be in
4 jail. And in the event somebody is wrongfully
5 convicted, it will help exonerate them.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Debate
7 is closed.
8 The Secretary will ring the bell.
9 Read the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 20. This
11 act shall take effect November 1, 2007.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
13 the roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
16 DeFrancisco, to explain his vote.
17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, I
18 think everything has been said that ought to
19 be said on the merits of this, and I'm going
20 to vote for it.
21 I just wanted to mention, very
22 briefly, the procedure. Senator Schneiderman
23 mentioned about this bifurcated system that
24 we're under right now where there was a
25 leaders' meeting with special guests at the
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1 meeting to discuss some of this legislation.
2 I don't remember that being any
3 part of any reform agenda. It just seems to
4 me that the way to legislate and the proper
5 way to reform the system is for each house to
6 do a bill and then start conference committees
7 between the Legislature and then send the bill
8 to the Governor for either his approval or his
9 veto power. Of course he would be involved in
10 providing any input to the Legislature as we
11 do our deliberations.
12 But this -- I don't know if it's
13 called a reform or what it's called, to have
14 public, televised meetings of certain people
15 to discuss legislation before it's even
16 considered by either house of the Legislature,
17 I don't think that's healthy, I don't think
18 that's reform.
19 I think we should go back to what
20 should be a system -- the best system, namely,
21 each house pass their bill and then resolve
22 their differences and then send a bill to the
23 Governor. I think that's the way government
24 should operate.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
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1 Robach, to explain his vote.
2 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes,
3 Mr. President. I rise to support this.
4 And I guess just off the process
5 and everything else, I want to talk about the
6 merits of this a little bit, having worked in
7 the criminal justice system before coming to
8 the Legislature, and working with a lot of
9 crime victims groups -- Adam Walsh Center for
10 Missing and Exploited Children -- as well as
11 people often on the defense side of this.
12 This is one of those rare
13 opportunities where I really think we do have
14 the quintessential win-win situation. As has
15 been said before, we cannot only use today's
16 technology to convict the guilty but we can
17 also use it to exonerate the innocents.
18 And while some very good points
19 have been brought up, I think what strikes me
20 is if you go back several years before we used
21 any DNA, those people did not have an
22 opportunity either way for guilt or innocence.
23 This is only going to give that opportunity to
24 be larger.
25 So I actually applaud the Governor
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1 for his sense of urgency on using today's
2 technology to address both population groups,
3 both the guilty and the innocent.
4 And let's be candid, the holdup on
5 this historically has been the Assembly, the
6 house I came from. And I'm hopeful through
7 whatever process we use, whether it's
8 negotiations, one-on-one, or conference
9 committees, whether it's fine-tuning or not,
10 that the Governor will be able to get the
11 Assembly to come on board to do something to
12 better protect New York's people. Because
13 clearly this house, which has passed these
14 bills for four years, has not been able to
15 have that effect on the merits and gotten the
16 Assembly to move.
17 So I do think as far as protection
18 goes, across the board for New Yorkers, this
19 is a good step. And I'm happy to cast my vote
20 in the affirmative.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
22 Robach in the affirmative.
23 Senator Sabini, to explain his
24 vote.
25 SENATOR SABINI: Mr. President,
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1 I'm going to be voting in the affirmative as
2 well.
3 I just wanted to highlight the
4 remarks that were made a little earlier about
5 process, about conference committees and how
6 easy it is to get an agreement here. Gee,
7 I've been here for five years and I don't
8 recall it being so easy. I've only seen about
9 three conference committees since I've been
10 here. And under the prior administration I
11 did not see a lot of agreements being reached
12 in the last four years.
13 In the last four months here, we've
14 had agreements on workers' comp and civil
15 confinement. We're going to hear about one on
16 human trafficking.
17 I think that any device we do to
18 get some consensus going, whether it's a
19 conference committee, a quiz show or whatever
20 you want to call it, I think is a good thing.
21 And I think the Governor has shown some
22 leadership on these issues. So in passing his
23 bill, I don't think we should criticize the
24 road we got -- how we got there. I think we
25 got there and we should celebrate the fact
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1 that we're getting there.
2 And if it requires a public
3 knocking of heads, I think, you know, it
4 should be done. Because we really hadn't seen
5 a lot of progress on a lot of issues up till
6 now.
7 And, you know, it may not have been
8 an official part of the reform agenda, but I
9 think we all agree -- and I know all of you
10 agree when it comes to election time -- that
11 changes are needed in this town.
12 So I think this is a change for the
13 better, and I'm voting aye.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
15 Sabini in the affirmative.
16 Announce the results.
17 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
18 the negative on Calendar Number 1173 are
19 Senators Adams, Duane, Gonzalez,
20 Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, Montgomery,
21 Parker, Perkins and Schneiderman.
22 Ayes, 52. Nays, 9.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
24 bill is passed.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
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1 1174, by Senator Lanza, Senate Print 5888, an
2 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
3 establishing the advisory council on
4 interactive media and youth violence.
5 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:
6 Explanation.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:
8 Explanation, Senator Lanza.
9 SENATOR LANZA: Yes,
10 Mr. President.
11 You know, we often talk about ways
12 to address criminal conduct after the fact.
13 This is a measure that would address one of
14 the growing influences in our society which
15 often tragically leads people, especially
16 children, to engage in criminally violent
17 conduct.
18 We hear about the culture of
19 violence that exists and the tragic
20 consequences that it has for our children and
21 for society. And we also know through many
22 studies that violent behavior is learned, and
23 the implication there is that it is taught.
24 And over the years we see, through
25 advancements in technology, video games
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1 becoming more virtually real, more violent,
2 and more, I believe, damaging to the youth in
3 our society.
4 The emotions and behaviors of our
5 young children are quite often affected and
6 shaped by these virtual reality video games.
7 And I think it's imperative that we find a way
8 to break that chain and to find a way to
9 prevent these games from fueling this violent
10 behavior.
11 You know, a couple of weeks ago
12 when we talked about and I proposed this
13 legislation, I made a reference to the
14 Virginia Tech mass murder. And it raised a
15 number of eyebrows. And people talked about
16 whether or not there really was a correlation.
17 And only a couple of days ago we found and
18 learned that in the mind of at least one
19 twisted person, there was a correlation.
20 Because over the Internet you can now, sadly,
21 download a game known as V Tech Rampage, where
22 the goal of the game is to act out the events
23 of that day, to murder students, to avoid the
24 police, and then to kill yourself.
25 I'm a person who believes that
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1 there are certain things in life that you
2 don't make light of and you don't turn into a
3 game. People said, Well, that's an isolated
4 sort of event. We've got Grand Theft Auto 4
5 soon to be released, which makes light and
6 turns into a game the murdering of a New York
7 City police officer. I think that's wrong. I
8 don't think we ought to be teaching that to
9 our children. I don't think we ought to be
10 exposing our children to that sort of thing,
11 which clearly desensitizes them to violence.
12 So this measure would do a number
13 of things. It would create an advisory
14 council on media entertainment and youth
15 violence to review recommendations on the
16 effectiveness of the Entertainment Software
17 Ratings Board. It's a voluntary system right
18 now, which we all know doesn't work.
19 It would further require that
20 ratings be mandatorily placed on all video
21 games sold or presented on the Internet in the
22 state of New York.
23 It would create a parent-teacher
24 antiviolence awareness program, because at the
25 root of this measure is providing our parents
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1 with the information that they need to
2 properly exercise parental control. When you
3 talk to parents, many of them have missed the
4 virtual jump in technology that has occurred
5 over the last five years. When you show them
6 actually what's on these games that they're
7 purchasing for their children, they're
8 shocked. They can't believe the virtual
9 nature of the reality, the way with which the
10 technology makes so real and so interactive
11 these violent games.
12 And finally, it would provide for a
13 fund in order to create those advisory
14 councils and provide for that awareness.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
16 you, Senator Lanza.
17 Senator Hassell-Thompson.
18 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank
19 you, Mr. President. Would the sponsor yield
20 for a few questions?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
22 Lanza, will you yield?
23 SENATOR LANZA: Yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
25 Hassell-Thompson.
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1 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank
2 you.
3 Through you, Mr. President.
4 Senator Lanza, please understand the nature of
5 this question, because it's really very
6 important. It's not flippant, and it's not
7 disrespectful. But what is your legislative
8 intent in passing this bill?
9 SENATOR LANZA: My legislative
10 intent is to find a way to prevent these
11 virtual realities that are being marketed and
12 presented to our children as games, which
13 teach children that it's okay to assassinate
14 New York police officers, which say and make
15 light of and turn into a game the horrible
16 mass murder that occurred in Virginia Tech --
17 to somehow find a way to break that chain and
18 prevent these games from having what I believe
19 to be the detrimental effect that they have on
20 your youth.
21 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:
22 Through you, Mr. President, if the sponsor
23 will continue to yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
25 Lanza, will you continue to yield?
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1 SENATOR LANZA: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
3 Hassell-Thompson.
4 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank
5 you.
6 Senator Lanza, have you been in
7 discussion with the Majority counsel that has
8 been working with the five-way staff on this
9 bill --
10 SENATOR LANZA: I have.
11 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: -- on
12 the Governor's program bill?
13 SENATOR LANZA: I have.
14 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:
15 Through you, Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
17 Lanza, will you continue to yield?
18 SENATOR LANZA: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
20 Hassell-Thompson.
21 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Were
22 you aware that in citing certain business laws
23 and others that -- to present the bill in the
24 manner in which you have chosen to do so has
25 been struck down by every state as being
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1 unconstitutional?
2 SENATOR LANZA: Through you,
3 Mr. President, that is not true. Nowhere have
4 constitutional protections been evoked to
5 prevent states from creating advisory
6 councils. Nowhere have constitutional
7 protections been evoked to prevent states from
8 creating parent-teacher antiviolence awareness
9 programs. Nowhere have constitutional
10 safeguards been evoked to prevent states from
11 creating funds to educate parents, to educate
12 children, to stop this chain of violence and
13 the poisoning of the minds of children.
14 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:
15 Through you, Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
17 Lanza, will you continue to yield?
18 SENATOR LANZA: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
20 Hassell-Thompson.
21 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: So
22 what you're telling this body is that that's
23 the extent of your bill?
24 SENATOR LANZA: No, the bill goes
25 further. It would require that labels are
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1 mandatorily placed on bills.
2 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Ah.
3 Through you, Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
5 Lanza, will you continue to yield?
6 SENATOR LANZA: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
8 Hassell-Thompson.
9 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: What
10 other factors within the bill besides rating
11 does the bill ask for?
12 SENATOR LANZA: I don't
13 understand the question, Mr. President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Can you
15 clarify the question, Senator
16 Hassell-Thompson?
17 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: You
18 said that the bill goes further and that in
19 the furtherance of the language you are asking
20 for such games to be rated and some other
21 issues. I'm just asking, what other aspects
22 are you requesting in the bill?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
24 Lanza.
25 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President,
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1 through you. That manufacturers are required
2 to place ratings on games indicating the
3 violent or mature content of these games. And
4 that, further, that fines would be imposed to
5 retailers who do not abide by those
6 provisions.
7 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:
8 Through you, Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
10 Lanza, will you continue to yield?
11 SENATOR LANZA: Yes,
12 Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
14 Hassell-Thompson.
15 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank
16 you, Mr. President.
17 And that particular language,
18 counsel has not advised you that that's the
19 very specific kind of language that has in
20 fact caused these bills to be struck down?
21 Because, see, I really wasn't speaking to the
22 advisory councils, but I'm speaking to the
23 language in the business law, that changes the
24 business law and commerce law, and some of the
25 aspects that are unconstitutional.
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1 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President,
2 well, you were speaking to the entire bill, I
3 presume, Senator, and that's why I wanted to
4 point out the many provisions which exist in
5 this bill, many of which I believe would sail
6 free of any constitutional objections.
7 Are there other issues with respect
8 to constitutionally protected speech with
9 respect to this issue? Certainly. But I
10 don't believe that we ought to hide and sit on
11 our hands and not attempt in this state to
12 address this very important issue. We are
13 attempting to do it in a way that is different
14 from other provisions that have been presented
15 throughout the states.
16 But this is a different way, and I
17 believe that we ought to not sit on our hands.
18 I believe that we ought to see if there's
19 anything that we can do. Because at the end
20 of the day, it's important that we protect our
21 children. It's important, rather than come
22 here and try to craft laws to mop up after
23 there's been a murder, after another child has
24 been led down the trail of violence, that we
25 do something before that happens, that we try
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1 to affect the root cause of those behaviors.
2 You know, it's not something that
3 we find foreign to require that there is
4 labeling on food that's sold in this state, so
5 that families and people can make decisions
6 about whether or not there's something in that
7 food that's bad for them before they either
8 ingest it or they give it to their children.
9 We've got no problem making sure that we
10 prevent drug dealers from getting near our
11 kids at schools, because we know if they use
12 those drugs, it's going to harm them
13 physically.
14 I suggest to you that many of these
15 games are poisoning the minds of our children,
16 with tragic consequence. So rather than sit
17 back and say, Well, other states have tried
18 and failed, we should walk away from the
19 problem, I say we have a responsibility in
20 this state to address the problem head-on and
21 do all we can to see whether or not we can
22 help our children, help our parents educate
23 them, to make sure that another child doesn't
24 meet with this sort of tragic consequence that
25 we far too often read about in the papers
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1 every day.
2 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:
3 Through you, Mr. President, would the sponsor
4 continue to yield?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
6 Lanza, will you continue to yield?
7 SENATOR LANZA: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
9 Hassell-Thompson.
10 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank
11 you, Mr. President.
12 Senator Lanza, can you tell me,
13 since you denied that my statement was
14 correct, can you tell me any state that has in
15 fact passed language that has allowed
16 ratings -- and by the way, the labeling of
17 food is not protected language. There is a
18 difference.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
20 Lanza.
21 SENATOR LANZA: Yes, I'm well
22 aware of that, Senator. I was, by analogy,
23 talking about the measures that we take as a
24 society to protect ourselves and to provide
25 information so that we can make more educated
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1 decisions, especially when it comes to
2 decisions as they relate to children.
3 I, Senator, was elected to
4 represent the 24th Senate District, which
5 happens to be in the State of New York. So
6 I'm not exact sure what the relevance of
7 bringing up what other states -- all of which
8 I'm not completely familiar with -- has to do
9 with whether or not we as body in this state
10 should make an attempt to protect our children
11 from the detrimental effects that these
12 increasingly violent video games have upon
13 them.
14 And every study has demonstrated
15 that the more you're exposed to violence, the
16 more likely you are to engage in violence.
17 Studies have also demonstrated that the more
18 real, the more real the demonstration of
19 violence is, the more likely you are to engage
20 in violence.
21 And let's not forget that when
22 children engage in violence not only do they
23 victimize others in society, but they become
24 the victims of their own violence and actions.
25 And clearly, clearly Senator
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1 Leiberman in the U.S. Senate took a leadership
2 role nationally on this issue more than five
3 years ago. Since he has done that, if you
4 haven't taken a look at video games today, you
5 might be shocked to find out the realism, to
6 see the realism and the violence and the
7 explicitness which exists in these games. And
8 many times parents are unaware of that fact
9 when they go out and purchase these games.
10 So in broad strokes this measure
11 would do nothing more, nothing more, Senator,
12 than provide parents with the information.
13 Surely you can have no problem with providing
14 parent with information about what their
15 children are being exposed to.
16 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Mr.
17 President, on the bill.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
19 Hassell-Thompson, on the bill.
20 SENATOR FARLEY: Good job,
21 Andrew.
22 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank
23 you, Mr. President.
24 I'd like to be able to say, Senator
25 Farley, that he's done a good job, but I
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1 can't. And the reason that I cannot is --
2 see, I have mother's ears and a grandmother's
3 heart. So I heard you.
4 One of the things that becomes
5 important, Senator Lanza, is that I, like you,
6 want this bill to pass. But I have sat in the
7 five-way meetings and I have been briefed
8 every day by staff as we have talked about
9 what kind of language is protected language.
10 I went to the meeting requesting ratings. I
11 am a parent and a grandparent who likes to
12 know what kinds of things children are
13 reading, what kind of games children are being
14 exposed to.
15 So you don't have to chide me to be
16 able to understand that. My questions are
17 important because part of what we have an
18 obligation to do if we want to see our bills
19 passed is to do so in a way that does not
20 infringe on the constitutional rights of the
21 people who do business.
22 Now, do I like it? No. Do I have
23 an obligation to protect it? We all do. My
24 questions had everything to do with your
25 understanding of not only how this bill is
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1 crafted but the fact that, taken into court,
2 the State of New York then would be liable, if
3 they win the lawsuit, if it is struck down.
4 And so when we begin to talk about
5 where we should put -- yes, check with your
6 attorney. He will tell you that. And I have
7 the literature that will help you to
8 understand that a part of what we have an
9 obligation to do is to be protective of the
10 rights of the people for whom we are
11 responsible for.
12 We are responsible to make sure
13 that while we feel passionately -- and we do,
14 we feel very passionately about this issue.
15 My concern was about presumptive defense.
16 Presumptive defense says that, well, you can't
17 presume that all levels of this game have
18 violence. Well, I'm here to tell you that
19 having watched my nephews play some of these
20 games, it takes skill to go from one level to
21 the next. And the lower and deeper into the
22 game you go, the more violent the acts are.
23 So I'm not at all surprised, I am
24 not at all amazed at the level of violence and
25 degradation that are involved in these games.
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1 Not only that, I was prepared, if I
2 had spoken today at the six-way meeting with
3 the Governor, to support your efforts for this
4 committee. Trust me. I've read your bill. I
5 read it carefully. I don't want to see us
6 lose a very genuine opportunity to do
7 something appropriate and right for the
8 families and the children of the State of
9 New York. And I want us to be a model across
10 this country.
11 And I've fought with the Governor's
12 people, but they have made the bill very
13 narrow in the Governor's bill. And I
14 understand your frustration. But what you
15 have done, if you're aware, by creating this
16 committee, some of the language that we have
17 all talked about being upset about, the
18 obscenity against women, the way in which
19 women are portrayed and the way in which
20 violence is portrayed, that committee can
21 speak to this language in a way that the bill
22 can't.
23 So what I'm trying to get you to
24 do -- what I'm trying to get you to do,
25 Senator Lanza, is to understand that I'm not
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1 here to destroy your bill, I'm here to support
2 your bill. I'm here to support you in your
3 efforts to make sure that this bill is passed.
4 I've already begun to have dialogue with my
5 colleagues in the Assembly to make sure that
6 bill does not become something that gets lost
7 and that does not get passed. But I want to
8 be sure that we understand that in order to do
9 that, we cannot use infringement --
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
11 Lanza, why do you rise?
12 SENATOR LANZA: Will the Senator
13 yield for a question?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
15 Hassell-Thompson, will you yield for a
16 question?
17 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:
18 Certainly.
19 SENATOR LANZA: Senator, aside
20 from the provision in the measure that would
21 require a mandatory rating system on the
22 games, do you support every other provision?
23 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Every
24 other aspect of your bill.
25 SENATOR LANZA: Would the Senator
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1 continue to yield?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Will
3 you continue to yield, Senator
4 Hassell-Thompson?
5 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: I
6 continue to yield, Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
8 Lanza.
9 SENATOR LANZA: Senator, are you
10 further aware that if there were a
11 constitutional challenge to this bill, that
12 potentially only that portion of the bill
13 which is deemed to be unconstitutional would
14 be struck down and we'd be left with all the
15 other measures that you support?
16 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Yes, I
17 am aware of that. But I also know that we
18 would be liable for the attorney's fees and
19 the costs to the State of New York.
20 SENATOR LANZA: Would the Senator
21 continue to yield?
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
23 Hassell-Thompson, will you continue to yield?
24 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Yes,
25 Mr. President, I will continue to yield.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
2 Lanza.
3 SENATOR LANZA: Senator, given
4 that, though, don't you think it's worth a
5 shot to do something different here in
6 New York and really try to get at the heart of
7 this problem? I learned a long time ago in
8 law school from my constitutional law
9 professor, who served in President Kennedy's
10 administration, that there's only one thing
11 you need to know about constitutional law and
12 what is constitutional, and that's how to
13 count to five.
14 So, Senator, we don't know how a
15 challenge to this bill would be reviewed by
16 the Supreme Court in the event that one is
17 even made.
18 So again, my question to you is
19 isn't it worth a shot, shouldn't we do all we
20 can to make sure we really address the heart
21 of this issue as opposed to dancing around the
22 fringe?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
24 Hassell-Thompson.
25 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Mr.
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1 President, my response to you, Senator Lanza,
2 has to be that while I'm in agreement, I don't
3 think that we should be imprudent in terms of
4 how we do that.
5 If we knowingly can change a
6 portion of the bill that causes infringement,
7 what would be the real harm in us retracting
8 that portion if the rest of the bill achieves
9 the goal that we want, that both of us want to
10 see happen?
11 SENATOR LANZA: Will the Senator
12 continue to yield?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
14 Hassell-Thompson, will you continue to yield?
15 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:
16 Certainly, Mr. President, I will continue to
17 yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
19 Lanza.
20 SENATOR LANZA: Senator, when you
21 claim infringement, that is you speaking,
22 isn't it? There's no court decision that
23 would specifically say that this bill would
24 represent an infringement upon some
25 constitutionally protected right.
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1 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:
2 Through you, Mr. President, the answer to your
3 question is that I have a whole sheet of every
4 state that has struck down this based on
5 constitutionality. There is no portion of
6 what I said today that was my opinion.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
8 Lanza.
9 SENATOR LANZA: Would the Senator
10 continue to yield?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
12 Hassell-Thompson, will you continue to yield?
13 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Yes,
14 Mr. President, I will continue to yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
16 Lanza.
17 SENATOR LANZA: This is my last
18 question, Senator. And it's almost
19 rhetorical, but I would like a response. You
20 are aware that this provision in this state
21 has not only not been challenged but has not
22 been struck down by any court?
23 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:
24 Because it's never been passed, Senator Lanza.
25 That's the only reason.
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1 SENATOR LANZA: I take it back,
2 Mr. President. Would the Senator yield to one
3 more question?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
5 Hassell-Thompson, will you yield --
6 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: I will
7 yield to as many questions as you'd like,
8 Senator. Especially if I can change your
9 mind.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
11 Hassell-Thompson continues to yield.
12 SENATOR LANZA: In light of that
13 response, I would ask one more time, isn't it
14 worth, given what's at stake, given the fact
15 that we know our children are being poisoned
16 by these violent games -- and we know how it
17 all ends. We read about it on the front page
18 of the paper. We see it on the nightly news.
19 We know how it ends. It ends horribly. Isn't
20 it therefore worth a shot in this state at
21 this time?
22 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:
23 Senator Lanza -- through you, Mr. President --
24 I will say to you that your insistence that
25 you pass this bill with the language that
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1 knowingly is infringement is egotistical on
2 your part.
3 You refuse to believe and accept
4 that if -- the slightest change to this bill
5 will not only get the total support of this
6 house but of the Assembly if you are willing
7 to concede that there is an error in the bill.
8 If you choose not to do that, then
9 you are knowingly putting something forward
10 that will put this state in a position where
11 it will incur legal fees. Because I can tell
12 you, I also have a list of every association
13 that is waiting for you to pass this bill so
14 that they can do as they have done in other
15 states around this country: Take you to
16 court.
17 And so therefore I believe that
18 your passion is real, your cause is noble, but
19 your course is irresponsible.
20 Thank you, Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
22 you, Senator Hassell-Thompson.
23 Is there any other Senator wishing
24 to be heard?
25 Senator Parker.
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1 SENATOR PARKER: Thank you very
2 much, Mr. President. On the bill.
3 I like the intention of this bill.
4 And, Senator Lanza, let me congratulate you
5 and thank you for kind of raising this bill
6 for part of the debate.
7 I unfortunately don't feel like I
8 can vote for this, and it's for very different
9 reasons than Senator Hassell-Thompson or
10 others who may have problems with the
11 constitutionality, which I think is part of
12 it.
13 I think that today that this body
14 is heading down a slippery slope and a
15 slippery slope that leads us into censorship
16 into all types of areas. That today we're
17 talking about video games, but we really can
18 be in another place very, very quickly.
19 And so I'm not going to vote for
20 this bill, or I'm not going to vote
21 affirmatively for this bill. And I guess I
22 know that we're attempting to protect
23 children. I know you have a family and you're
24 trying to protect your children. And I think
25 a lot of people here, including Senator
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1 Hassell-Thompson, who cares about this, is
2 trying to protect her grandchildren and other
3 families and other children.
4 But this I think this bill is an
5 attempt to legislate morality. And I don't
6 think that that's the place for this
7 Legislature or any Legislature anywhere. I
8 think at the point that we abdicate parental
9 responsibility, that we're making a huge
10 mistake. I think that there are a lot of
11 thing that we don't like that happen in
12 society, but I think that this is not the way
13 that we go about it.
14 I think that video games fall into
15 a realm that is no different than other types
16 of entertainment media. I think we do this
17 going to then start happening to censor TV and
18 radio and books and CDs, DVDs, the Internet,
19 Hollywood, network news. I mean, at what
20 point do we stop with these images?
21 And then the question is, when you
22 start developing these panels, my question is
23 who's on these panels and who gets to pick
24 them? And I'm asking that rhetorically,
25 because the bill actually deals with that.
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1 But I'm asking it because a lot of group that
2 I'm concerned about are not necessarily going
3 to be represented in the same way that
4 African-Americans and Latinos in particular
5 don't get represented on a host of panels and
6 boards and commissions and authorities
7 throughout this state and throughout this
8 country. And this becomes a problem.
9 And just to illustrate this, you
10 know, kind of bear with me when I talk about
11 this for a second. Because in the wake of the
12 Don Imus problems, the conversation then
13 turned to, well, what do we do to censor rap
14 music, because Don Imus is affected by rap
15 music. And he gets these terms and the way he
16 thinks about this stuff from rap music, so we
17 now need to censor the stories that primarily
18 young African-American men are telling to the
19 world about their experience in the world from
20 their perspective. Whether you agree or
21 disagree. In the same way that some of us may
22 or may not like lots of other things in
23 stories of other -- and music and movies and
24 all kinds of things.
25 But we didn't talk about the fact
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1 that the primary images that we see in rap
2 music and the hip hop culture come out of the
3 dominant culture. And in fact, when we start
4 talking about, you know, half of the rappers
5 out there, they get their names and the name
6 of their crews from real-life stuff. Right?
7 You got Gotti coming from John Gotti. You got
8 Murder, Inc. coming from a group of gangsters,
9 Mafia gangsters. You got the Wu-Tang Clan who
10 gets their images from Chinese epics about
11 martial arts. Right?
12 I mean, you can go on and on about
13 where these names -- you have Jay-Z or
14 Roc-A-Fella getting their name from, you know,
15 our former Governor. Right? And other robber
16 barons who participated in building this
17 country. And that's where they get their
18 notions about the world. Pablo Escobar.
19 Right? Nas called himself Nas Escobar.
20 You know, you have a lot of these
21 images coming directly from day-to-day things
22 that young people in fact are engaging in the
23 news and in television.
24 And by and large, every time
25 there's a cultural attack, an attack on
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1 morality, as much as things may be happening
2 in other communities, I've never seen in a
3 white Catholic priest taking heavy metal CDs
4 and putting them in the street and rolling
5 over them with a steamroller the way Calvin
6 Butts did with hip hop music back in the early
7 '90s. Some of you all forgot about that.
8 Right? We don't see that in other places, but
9 we have seen them here.
10 Let me go back. There was a group
11 called N.W.A., right, headed by Easy E.
12 Right? Niggers With Attitude, right, N.W.A.
13 They had a song called "F--- the Police." And
14 in that song they talked about the conflict
15 that African-American young men have with
16 police every day and essentially said, you
17 know, we like to do violence to them the way
18 they inflict on our community. Police
19 departments were enraged. And they talked
20 about this and they banned the song, and it
21 was a big deal.
22 The same year a movie came out by a
23 guy named, oh, Schwarzenegger called
24 "Terminator." And in that same year, in the
25 "Terminator" movie, Arnold Schwarzenegger
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1 walked into a police precinct and killed every
2 single -- must have been 300 cops he killed.
3 Not a word. Just like this room. Not a word.
4 And in fact, well, Easy E goes on
5 and dies of AIDS, and Schwarzenegger is now,
6 what, governor of the largest state in the
7 country. I mean, you know, these kind of
8 things in terms of how morality is dictated in
9 this country is problematic for me. And I see
10 this kind of slippery slope, I see us moving
11 from there, a very, very noble and worthy
12 cause of protecting our children, to a quickly
13 moving down to a censorship and a moral
14 compass being directed over my community that
15 I certainly cannot vote for.
16 And again, I'm not defending the
17 horror images, the misogynistic or the sexist
18 images that we see in these video games. And
19 I'm certainly not trying to abdicate parents
20 in this state of their responsibility from
21 overseeing their children. Parents have a
22 responsibility. And they need to know what
23 their children -- they need to know.
24 If parents are buying video games
25 for their children and they don't know what's
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1 in those video games, shame on them. That's
2 their job. In the same way they, you know,
3 turn on a television set or buy a DVD or a CD
4 or they let their children on the Internet,
5 they should know what their children are
6 watching. We have conversations about this
7 all the time, but we have certainly not banned
8 any of those things.
9 And lastly, I guess I'm always
10 shocked by the flippant attitude that we have
11 in this body about coming in conflict with the
12 Constitution of the United States. I mean,
13 this is not the first time or even like the
14 fifth time that I have voted against a bill in
15 this body because it came into conflict,
16 clearly, with the courts or the Constitution
17 of the United States as kind of afterthought,
18 kind of like, well, if they catch us, they may
19 well change it. Maybe. And I just don't
20 think that's the right message to send.
21 We should be looking at ways to
22 mitigate violence and particularly violent
23 images that our children are seeing every day
24 in our societies. And we should be working to
25 make sure that in television and in movies and
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1 in DVDs and books that those things happen.
2 We actually ought to begin by
3 making sure that our federal government
4 doesn't go and engage in, you know, wars that
5 are not sanctioned by the people of the United
6 States and are immoral.
7 But there's other things we can do.
8 And we are so scared about -- which again is
9 valid, because there are lot of studies that
10 indicate that the violence that young people
11 in particular see does get played out in real
12 life. But there's other things that we can do
13 to mitigate this violence.
14 So there's a number of gun control
15 bills, many of which people in this house
16 have, that we ought to bring to the floor and
17 we ought to pass before we go. If we really
18 care about violence in our societies, then we
19 should, you know, have expanded ballistic
20 testing. We ought to expand the IDs on
21 bullets and increase the way that we in fact
22 have gun control in this state.
23 We ought to have better mental
24 health services, you know, in our schools.
25 You know, the horrific things that mental
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1 health decontrol has created in terms of the
2 homeless situation that we have in this state
3 is absolutely unconscionable and we ought to
4 relook at those things and figure out how do
5 we in fact provide better, more, and more
6 comprehensive mental health services at every
7 level of the people of the State of New York
8 to make sure that the tragedy that happened in
9 Virginia does not in fact happen here.
10 And then, lastly, and this is
11 something that we all can do, is just work
12 towards a more caring society. And a more
13 caring society means that we in fact expand
14 the rights of the society. That education
15 shouldn't be seen as a privilege, education
16 should be seen as a right. That healthcare
17 should not be seen as a privilege, it should
18 be seen as a right. That mental health
19 services should not be seen as a privilege, it
20 should be seen as a right. Affordable housing
21 ought to not be seen as a privilege, it should
22 be seen as a right.
23 That we need to make sure that
24 food -- that there's people who are hungry
25 right now as we sit here, and that shouldn't
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1 be a privilege. It should be a right for you
2 to be able to have food.
3 A job. I said this before, we
4 ought to pass a full employment law in the
5 State of New York and simply say that it is no
6 longer acceptable to have an economic system
7 that says that there is an optimal level of
8 unemployment. That we should in fact ensure a
9 job for every man, woman and child who wants
10 one in this state and make sure that we have
11 ability for people to have a full-time job at
12 a living wage with benefits.
13 And a more caring society would in
14 fact do as much as this bill would do in terms
15 of creating a place where our children will be
16 safe and secure and happy to live in.
17 And so, Senator Lanza, please don't
18 misunderstand my not voting for this bill in
19 terms of its being any kind of adversarial
20 thing about you or this bill. I simply just
21 have some concerns about where we're going
22 with it.
23 I'm hoping that we can in fact
24 continue to reduce violence and the images of
25 violence and misogyny and homophobia and
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1 racism and all those things that we see in
2 this society that we don't like, that I know
3 that people in this body want to see
4 mitigated, and that we move to a more caring
5 society where we have less privileges and more
6 rights.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
8 Robach, on the bill.
9 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes,
10 Mr. President, on the bill. I rise to support
11 this and want to applaud my colleague Senator
12 Lanza, both as a legislator and as a father.
13 I think my colleague Senator
14 Thompson, certainly I would agree, we agree
15 with four of the points. The one that seems
16 of some controversy is the requirement that
17 video games should be labeled. I for one
18 don't understand what the constitutional
19 challenge would be. We rate movies.
20 And I think what we're missing is I
21 hear these comments, but I don't really feel
22 they're applicable. We are not saying they
23 can't make the game, we are saying that we
24 think it has a different impact on a 7-, a 9-,
25 an 11-, a 12-, a 15-year-old, someone under
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1 the age of 18, a minor, than it would an
2 adult.
3 And while I share in all those
4 other problems that Senator Parker pointed
5 out, I think trying to help kids at an early
6 age and not have them exposed to violence
7 would be one of the things that would make the
8 world a little bit less violent and a better
9 place.
10 And I would also point out, in
11 relationship to the fear on the bill, if you
12 read the bill it clearly points out where the
13 appointments would come from, some of which
14 would come from your side of the aisle as well
15 as ours, other trained professionals in the
16 area, from teachers, parents, psychiatrists,
17 psychologists, as well as some appointments by
18 the Governor and this body.
19 I in all sincerity think this is
20 very good, sound language. And I want to
21 point out that all this label does is let
22 parents -- who often, I admit this, buy the
23 game unknowingly with things in there they
24 don't want their kids to see that really are
25 of a superrealistic, graphic, violent nature,
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1 often showing things that would be completely
2 illegal to do in the real world, almost making
3 it look like fun and fantasy again to
4 desensitize and encourage.
5 So I think this would be a great
6 bill. Again, it does not stop these
7 manufacturers, these businesses from making
8 the games. Whether I think they're garbage or
9 great, it doesn't affect that at all. It only
10 says, very similar to a movie, this is NA,
11 explain a little bit what's in it, and really
12 would be a very big cross-section of people
13 deciding how those labels get on there. I
14 think it would be great. I'm happy to support
15 the bill and encourage the rest of my
16 colleagues to vote for that.
17 Thank you.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
19 Marcellino, on the bill.
20 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, thank
21 you, Mr. President.
22 I too rise to support this bill. I
23 think it's a good bill, it moves in the right
24 direction. As the new grandparent of a
25 granddaughter, I want to make sure that my
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1 grandchild is protected from the images, that
2 her parents are given the proper notice as to
3 what is contained in these games and videos
4 and the like that come out.
5 The only concern, Senator Parker
6 mentioned "The Terminator." The only
7 difference with "The Terminator," it was
8 rated. It was in fact at the time rated R, so
9 that children under 17 couldn't get into see
10 it without parental consent.
11 I think that's all Senator Lanza
12 would like to see. He'd like too see these
13 games rated so that parents know basically
14 what they're getting and what's the content of
15 the games that are involved here.
16 I think this is a good idea. Let's
17 do it. I intend to vote aye.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
19 you, Senator Marcellino.
20 Any other Senator wishing to be
21 heard?
22 Debate is closed. The Secretary
23 will ring the bell.
24 Read the last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This
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1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call
3 the roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
6 Bonacic, to explain his vote.
7 SENATOR BONACIC: Mr. President,
8 I stand to congratulate Senator Lanza on
9 bringing this bill forward.
10 I think -- there's no question in
11 my mind that there is a correlation. With our
12 children who watch these violent video games,
13 there's a tendency for them to be more violent
14 and more aggressive. And I think psychology
15 studies have shown that to be true.
16 So what is it we as public
17 officials try to do? We try to put forth laws
18 that represent the values, priorities and
19 protection of our children which the majority
20 of the people --
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
22 Hassell-Thompson, why do you rise?
23 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: I
24 apologize. I'll wait.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
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1 Bonacic.
2 SENATOR BONACIC: Yes. So we put
3 forward legislation that we believe reflects
4 the feelings of the majority of the people
5 that we represent. That's what Senator Lanza
6 has done.
7 Now, if we have constitutional
8 concerns, like any legislation that passes
9 this house, we have staff counsel, we have
10 general counsel in the Senate before a bill
11 goes through. In the Assembly they have those
12 same legal minds that review this stuff. And
13 so it goes, to the Governor's office.
14 So we have been through this
15 process before. Now, if there is a
16 constitutional issue that's been raised and
17 it's proper to raise it, quite frankly I would
18 like to make an error on the side of public
19 safety and the protection of our children and
20 leave the judicial branch to make that
21 ultimate decision if we've done something
22 wrong.
23 So for those reasons, I'm
24 supporting the bill. And I thank, again,
25 Senator Lanza for bringing it forward.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
2 Bonacic in the affirmative.
3 Senator Hassell-Thompson, to
4 explain her vote.
5 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank
6 you, Mr. President.
7 I listened, as it's clear that I
8 did to all the questions that Senator Lanza
9 asked me, and I listened to all the people who
10 have stood to congratulate and to support
11 Senator Lanza on this bill. I too
12 congratulate Senator Lanza on this bill,
13 particularly because of its intent.
14 I still must pose the question to
15 Senator Lanza, why the rush? There is an
16 appropriation that has to be made which will
17 not appear until next year's budgetary period.
18 That would give us more than enough time to
19 hammer out the issues.
20 Not only that, we are still in the
21 middle of -- we've been in the middle of
22 negotiating the very language. And it was
23 agreed in the fifth meeting that was held on
24 Saturday that much of the language of Senator
25 Lanza's bill would in fact be included in the
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1 Governor's program bill.
2 So suddenly here we are, faced with
3 passing a bill that has language that is
4 constitutionally challenging, and yet we're
5 rushing to put it in as though it was going to
6 make that much of a difference. And I can
7 tell you that with these points, it will be
8 impossible to get support for this bill out of
9 the Assembly.
10 And you can say what you will about
11 that, but we've worked very hard up to this
12 point with the Assembly, and they were going
13 along with the language of this bill until
14 such time as you insisted that this bill must
15 go in the way in which that you presented it,
16 Senator Lanza.
17 So I will -- you know, these are
18 one of those times I wish that I could
19 abstain. I voted without recommendation in
20 Rules because I just don't feel that this bill
21 is going to pass. But I can't not support you
22 based upon the intent that I know that both of
23 you and I want to see happen in the effects of
24 this legislation.
25 So I will be voting to support you,
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1 but I'm going to tell you, we're going to have
2 a problem, Senator Lanza. We're going to have
3 a big problem with this bill.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
5 Hassell-Thompson in the affirmative. Is that
6 correct?
7 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Yes,
8 that's correct, Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
10 DeFrancisco, to explain his vote.
11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I think
12 this is a good bill, and Senator Lanza should
13 be applauded for moving this as quickly as
14 possible.
15 First of all, there were some
16 references by Senator Parker concerning some
17 situations that might be determined to be
18 racist as to who might be the targets of some
19 legislation like this, and he gave "The
20 Terminator" example. I don't remember Senator
21 Lanza saying anything about who the individual
22 was that produced the video that shows people
23 how to play a game based upon the recent
24 slayings of all those college students. I
25 don't think he even knows. Quite frankly, I
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1 don't think he cares or anyone else here
2 should care, because the victims are not of
3 any particular race. And the concept is to
4 give parents as many tools as possible so they
5 can protect their kids. And how could that be
6 wrong?
7 If the only objectionable part of
8 this legislation is whether there's mandatory
9 ratings and it turns out to be
10 unconstitutional, there's a theory known as
11 severability. And basically the court who
12 finds it unconstitutional can cut out any
13 parts that are not proper or not in accordance
14 with the Constitution.
15 But even more importantly, the
16 members of the various appeals courts change
17 all the time. And if anyone has not noticed,
18 over the last several years the Court of
19 Appeals has changed a little bit to the right,
20 if you want to look at the political spectrum.
21 And it could change to the left later on with
22 Governor Spitzer's appointees.
23 The fact of the matter, as Senator
24 Lanza mentioned, it depends upon who's on the
25 court at the time. So I really feel that
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1 we've got to provide the biggest, best tools
2 we can. And hopefully at the time this is
3 reviewed, that that section is constitutional,
4 because who happens to be on the court that
5 determines the constitutionality -- and if
6 it's not the worst-case scenario, is that
7 section that's not constitutional is severed,
8 the rest is enforced.
9 So I think it's good legislation.
10 As Senator Bonacic said, we ought to err on
11 the side -- if we're erring at all; I don't
12 believe we are -- to protect our children and
13 our grandchildren.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
15 DeFrancisco in the affirmative.
16 Is there any other Senator that
17 wishes to speak?
18 Senator C. Johnson.
19 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank
20 you.
21 I rise to support this legislation.
22 As a parent of a 5-year-old and a 2-year-old,
23 I obviously, if they are going to start buying
24 video games, would want to know what's in
25 those video games.
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1 I am concerned, I share the concern
2 with my colleague Senator Ruth
3 Hassell-Thompson, in reviewing this
4 legislation. Because Senator Bonacic brought
5 out, you do have counsel, and able counsel, to
6 address these issues. Because my concern is
7 that the bill doesn't effectively -- more
8 importantly, it leaves some holes.
9 For instance, it doesn't create an
10 actual ratings system. The language talks
11 about standardized designation, when the
12 problem is I don't know what standardized
13 designation is going to be. So clearly we may
14 be coming back here to address what is the
15 standardized designation that's going to be
16 attached. And I think that's a good thing.
17 That way maybe we could discuss it a little
18 bit more.
19 Because Senator DeFrancisco and
20 Senator Lanza seem to be quoting the Supreme
21 Court, or paraphrasing the Supreme Court, and
22 I will as well. As Justice Powell talked
23 about when looking at pornography and saying,
24 you know, what is pornography, he remarked, "I
25 know it when I see it."
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1 And I think that's the same thing
2 we have here with our ratings systems, it's
3 kind of the designation of what is violence
4 and what falls within that rating system.
5 But I think it's important because
6 when we are asking our manufacturers and our
7 distributors to put a rating system on our
8 video games, there has to be some sort of
9 guideline, and this bill doesn't actually
10 address that. But I'm hopeful that this will
11 come back to do so.
12 My final point is that when we come
13 back and address these issues, one thing we
14 need to look at is are we going to apply this
15 expansively. Because the way I read the
16 bill -- and I still am supportive of the
17 bill -- for children's games, my 5-year-old
18 goes on the computer and goes to Noggin or
19 Nickelodeon, and those are two websites for
20 youngsters, and plays video games on them.
21 And according to this bill, you're asking now
22 Noggin and Nickelodeon to provide a rating for
23 these particular games.
24 So I think when we decide if we
25 have to come back to address what type of
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1 rating system we're going to produce, we need
2 to see are we going to focus specifically on
3 violent video games and video games that focus
4 on sex and prurient interests, or are we going
5 to talk a rating system where it's totally
6 expansive for games under the age of five.
7 But I do support this legislation.
8 I believe it's important. We should err on
9 the side of caution, we should err on the side
10 of protecting our children and our
11 grandchildren, and I will vote yes.
12 Thank you.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator
14 C. Johnson will be recorded in the
15 affirmative.
16 Senator Farley, to explain his
17 vote.
18 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes, thank you,
19 Mr. President.
20 Senator Hassell-Thompson, in her
21 acute hearing, heard me say "good job" to
22 Senator Lanza. I just want the record to show
23 that it was a good job. It's a good bill.
24 And I vote in the affirmative.
25 (Laughter.)
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1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Farley
2 will be recorded in the affirmative.
3 Senator Lanza, to explain his vote.
4 SENATOR LANZA: Thank you,
5 Mr. President.
6 You know, the question has been
7 raised why the rush, why now. Because I
8 believe that when it comes to protecting our
9 children, you can't act quickly enough. There
10 is no time like the present.
11 Is this difficult? Is it
12 challenging? Were there issues that we needed
13 to negotiate and navigate through in order to
14 craft legislation that we thought would pass
15 constitutional muster? Yes. It's not easy.
16 That's precisely why we should do it, because
17 of what's at stake. We shouldn't run and hide
18 because something is difficult.
19 There was talk about which moral
20 compass or whose moral compass would be used
21 in addressing this issue as we move forward.
22 Only a broken moral compass would not be able
23 to discern the damaging effect that a video
24 game has that teaches kids that it's okay to
25 assassinate New York City police officers, or
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1 that the mass murder at Virginia Tech is
2 something that we should make light of or turn
3 into a game.
4 We know, we know the detrimental
5 effect that these games are having on
6 children. And we know how it all ends up for
7 them.
8 The constitutional issue. The
9 point was raised that the manufacturers have
10 rights. I'm aware of that. This is not a
11 measure that would prohibit anyone from
12 selling anything to anyone. I wish it did. I
13 wish we could pass a law that would pass
14 constitutional muster that would prohibit
15 these games from getting into the hands of
16 kids. But it seems, sadly, that that clearly
17 is something we can't do.
18 Maybe my colleagues have some
19 insight into the nine justices who sit on the
20 Supreme Court and have polled them and know
21 how they're going to decide in the
22 hypothetical eventuality that this case goes
23 before them. I don't. I know that this
24 country has a history, a history of trying to
25 protect rights of individuals that from time
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1 to time have been judged to be constitutional
2 or not. But we shouldn't run and hide at the
3 prospect that potentially a challenge will be
4 made and that this will be struck down.
5 It was suggested perhaps that this
6 is being flippant to the United States
7 Constitution. I'm not being flippant. In
8 fact, I have the opposite opinion with respect
9 to the Constitution. I'm optimistic, I'm
10 hopeful that our Constitution will protect our
11 right and will sanction our ability to protect
12 our children from an influence in society that
13 we know, we know beyond a reasonable doubt is
14 creating a culture of violence and is having a
15 disastrous effect.
16 Manufacturer's rights. One of my
17 colleagues across the aisle last week, when
18 talking about paint cans, talked about not
19 wanting to put profits over public health,
20 talked about lead, lead in paint and how it
21 hurts kids. Were there challenges to
22 provisions that sought to protect kids from
23 that? Sure there were. We knew they were
24 coming in advance. Did people run and hide?
25 No, they stood up.
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1 Smoking in the workplace. Were
2 challenges on the horizon? Absolutely.
3 People stood up and led and did what they
4 thought was right.
5 This is a labeling requirement.
6 That's all this does, it puts a label on a
7 game to let people know ahead of the purchase,
8 to let parents know that the content may be
9 damaging to the health of your child. This is
10 information. This is education. That's all
11 this bill does.
12 So I say let's hope that the
13 Constitution of this great land is still a
14 vehicle that continues to allow us to protect
15 our right to do what's right for society.
16 Mr. President, I vote aye.
17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Lanza
18 will be recorded in the affirmative.
19 Senator Adams, to explain his vote.
20 SENATOR ADAMS: Mr. President,
21 thank you.
22 You know, I was going to vote nay
23 on this bill. I was. And I remember I saw --
24 about two months ago, I saw a mother walk with
25 her son, and he had no belt on his pants and
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1 his underwear was showing, and she was walking
2 with him.
3 And it dawned on me that we have to
4 be very careful when abnormal behavior becomes
5 normal. We've reached a point in society
6 where our children are so used to violence,
7 our children are so used to not having the
8 basic principles that's made us great as a
9 country. And when we reach the point that
10 children duplicate the behavior of those who
11 are incarcerated and it becomes normal to
12 parents, then something is wrong.
13 And so we may have a constitutional
14 problem; I think my colleague was correct in
15 that. But we do have to start -- and I agree
16 with you, Senator Lanza, we do have to start
17 the process of bringing a level of normality
18 back to our everyday behavior. When parents
19 walk inside a household and they watch their
20 children listen to degrading music and it's
21 normal, when parents allow their children to
22 move through our society in a degrading
23 fashion and it's normal, something has gone so
24 far, and the style of living we're doing as
25 Americans -- when we used to set the standards
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1 of how the globe lives and exists.
2 So we do need legislation like
3 this. And I disagree with my colleague. If
4 this is a slippery slope, I want to be on that
5 slope and slide along with it. Because we
6 have to put a period to the behavior that
7 appears to have engulfed our society.
8 And so some will say, well, what's
9 wrong with not wearing a belt? What's wrong
10 with not dressing a certain way? I've learned
11 that the dismantling of a society is a slow
12 erosive process of the basic principle that
13 makes a society great.
14 The video games started out as just
15 using foul languages. Our children adapted to
16 those languages. Then it started out just
17 shooting one person. Our children adapted to
18 that shooting. We have an adaptability as a
19 human person that if we don't stop it,
20 eventually we're going to have 3D games where
21 individuals are going to start shooting each
22 other.
23 And I'll never forget one case that
24 made me change my mind today as I heard you
25 speak. A young man we arrested, he and his
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1 buddy participated in a gang rape. In his
2 pocket was the video game that was duplication
3 of the action he carried out.
4 So if people are telling me our
5 children don't duplicate that behavior, just
6 go back and see how they leave a kung fu movie
7 and start kicking and screaming. Now you have
8 a countless number of kids that want to be CSI
9 investigators because they see CSI on TV.
10 These games influence, impact, and
11 they address our children. This bill is the
12 right bill, this is the right decision to
13 make. And I change my vote from nay to aye,
14 and I agree with this bill.
15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Adams
16 will be recorded in the affirmative.
17 The Secretary will announce the
18 results.
19 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
20 the negative on Calendar Number 1174 are
21 Senators Breslin, Duane, Gonzalez, Montgomery
22 and Parker.
23 Ayes, 56. Nays, 5.
24 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
25 passed.
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1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1175, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5892, an
3 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to
4 creating the Children's Healthy Access to
5 Meals Program.
6 SENATOR SAMPSON: Explanation.
7 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Saland,
8 an explanation has been requested by Senator
9 Sampson.
10 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you,
11 Mr. President.
12 Mr. President, I'm sure there's
13 nobody in this chamber who is unaware of some
14 of the very troubling data that certainly has
15 had enormous coverage and certainly enormous
16 public impact over the course of the past two
17 or three years dealing with the issue of
18 childhood obesity, young children being
19 overweight, a comparison of statistics going
20 back two and three decades where young
21 children, adolescents and younger, seem to be
22 far heavier and certainly with far greater
23 percentages in terms of obesity, more given to
24 obesity than we've witnessed during our prior
25 generations.
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1 What this bill proposes to do,
2 Mr. President, basically is to recognize not
3 merely the problem but to deal with it in a
4 fashion that is not prescriptive but a fashion
5 that requires the collaboration of the
6 Commissioner of Education, the Commissioner of
7 Health, and the Commissioner of Ag and
8 Markets, the purpose of which would be to
9 provide, by way of regulation, the ability for
10 schools by the next school year, 2008-2009, to
11 adopt basically not only new means by which to
12 provide for nutrition within their schools but
13 also new means at the same time by which to
14 review their curriculum for both physical
15 education, which hasn't been looked at in
16 decades, and for instruction with respect to
17 nutrition.
18 Certainly it has to be recognized
19 that healthy eating habits are established in
20 the home. Food and beverages, however, in
21 schools certainly play a significant part of a
22 child's nutritional intake during the course
23 of a week. And as Senator Parker I believe
24 said during the earlier debate, certainly
25 parents have responsibility. But schools
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1 should not -- and I repeat not -- be part of
2 the problem but certainly should be part of
3 the solution.
4 And by requiring that
5 collaboration, by requiring a less
6 prescriptive means than has been proposed by
7 the Governor, we are basically getting to the
8 same place in a fashion that recognizes that
9 there's changes in the science frequently.
10 My own personal experience. As one
11 who watches his cholesterol intake because of
12 my concern about a history of heart condition
13 in my family, and having experienced some
14 challenges in that regard myself, I can recall
15 probably 15 or so years ago I was advised that
16 I had to keep my cholesterol below 220. Well,
17 probably within several years thereafter, I
18 was told it had to be below 200. And then
19 within the past several years I was told it
20 had to be below 180.
21 There's a certain evolution,
22 there's an evolution with respect to the food
23 pyramid. Things change. What's today
24 acceptable in terms of milligrams for sodium
25 or sugar may not be acceptable two years from
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1 now.
2 So to take this overly prescriptive
3 approach as has been proposed by the Governor
4 is basically to say that every time there's a
5 change in the science, there's a new finding,
6 that we in fact have to change the statute.
7 These things can be done by
8 regulation. They can be done, in effect, far
9 more readily without taking up the time and
10 attention of this body and the other house.
11 If in fact we disagree, we can always
12 certainly take issue. There's provision for a
13 constant review, so that there's reports to
14 the Legislature no more than one year apart.
15 We have provided for the first time
16 in probably about 25 years for an increase in
17 the amount of monies that would go to schools
18 based on the number of lunches that they are
19 providing under the national program. There's
20 probably somewhere in the area, I believe, of
21 about 1400 lunches that are served every day
22 in school. We're proposing to provide the
23 additional money, based on lunches and the
24 breakfasts, by the way. There's probably some
25 500,000 breakfasts that are provided.
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1 One of the things that concerned
2 me -- and if I may, simply because I had the
3 opportunity to review the Governor's proposed
4 program bill, and I must sort of share with
5 you my reason for getting where it is that
6 I've arrived -- I was troubled by the fact
7 that there was language in the bill that went
8 so far as to say that nothing in the bill
9 prohibited students and staff from drinking
10 from water fountains. I mean, that's quite
11 literally in the bill. And, I mean, if you're
12 being that prescriptive that you have to say
13 it's okay to drink from a water fountain, I
14 must share with you that you've gone a little
15 over the top, at least in my opinion.
16 The Governor's proposal would
17 require breakfasts to be provided in every
18 single school district. Now, for the past 10
19 to 12 days we have been trying to find out the
20 costs associated with providing breakfasts in
21 school districts. There are things that flow
22 from that. There may be school districts, for
23 example, that use the same school buses to run
24 children one time, and then take another
25 run -- perhaps they start off with the younger
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1 kids in the morning, perhaps they start off
2 with the older kids in the morning, and in
3 some instances they'll do a second run to pick
4 up those kids again.
5 There will be transportation
6 consequences. Will we require more buses if
7 we're going to take all the kids together?
8 Are we going to have young children and
9 adolescents in with high school students?
10 There are just issues that we've been asking
11 for answers to that we have yet to receive
12 answers to.
13 And if you're going to provide a
14 breakfast, as is proposed by the Governor, for
15 every student, what does that do in part to
16 your contracts? Now you have part-time
17 employees, many of whom are working in
18 cafeterias, who may not be working a full day.
19 If they have to come in and work a full day,
20 are there consequences to the school district?
21 Do they become entitled to retirement benefits
22 because they're working a longer day? These
23 are issues, again, that we've been asking for
24 answers to, and we have yet to receive them.
25 So I think this is a balanced
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1 approach. I think it's a reasonable approach.
2 I think it's a fair approach. I think it gets
3 us again to the same place.
4 We look at the integration of phys
5 ed and nutrition. We look merely not at what
6 is it that's going to be served to children,
7 but what is it that's going on in the
8 children. Do you throw a ball down in the
9 middle of the court and say, Okay, kids, just
10 play for the next half hour, 45 minutes?
11 There has to be a better way of also dealing
12 with the phys ed side of the obesity and
13 overweight question as well.
14 We are not capable of
15 micromanaging. We should not be
16 micromanaging. But we should certainly make
17 sure that at all times we retain our
18 oversight. And this bill would enable us to
19 do that.
20 Thank you, Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT ROBACH: Thank
22 you, Senator Saland.
23 Senator Sampson.
24 SENATOR SAMPSON: I defer to my
25 colleague.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT ROBACH: Senator
2 Sampson is yielding to Senator Oppenheimer.
3 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: He's a
4 gentleman and a scholar.
5 I'm very, very supportive of
6 Senator Saland's bill, and I'll give you some
7 of the reasons, though I think really Senator
8 Saland hit upon many of them.
9 The requirement to have a breakfast
10 mandate makes no sense to me at all, no sense.
11 Because there are many homes where breakfast
12 is served. It was always served in my home
13 before the children left. What am I now to
14 tell them, you can't eat breakfast at home,
15 you have to eat it at school? Makes no sense.
16 And as far as any contractual
17 arrangements we have, the additional costs, I
18 mean it could really escalate. We need people
19 there to offer this, and the contracts have
20 been signed and they didn't include breakfast,
21 to say nothing about the buses. I mean, it
22 just doesn't make sense to me.
23 I think also that if we put
24 nutritional requirements into law, we are in
25 for very big problems. One year it is good to
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1 eat eggs, and three years later it's bad. And
2 then two years after that, it's good to eat
3 eggs. I mean, you cannot possibly keep up
4 with the changing scientific data. I don't
5 even know if anybody should follow the
6 scientific data, because just eat healthy, eat
7 smart, use your brain and I think you're best
8 off. Anything in moderation is fine.
9 But I think to put it into law, we
10 would have to come back every time we wanted
11 to change it from 6 ounces to 8 ounces or 12
12 ounces, you know, the amount of juice in the
13 container. It makes no sense. So it really
14 should just be regulation where it can be done
15 by our Department of Health and our Department
16 of Education.
17 The fact that we will increase by
18 10 cents per meal to cover the increased costs
19 in the school lunch program I think is a
20 wonderful move that we are finally making.
21 And there is no such increase in monies going
22 to districts in the Governor's proposal, and I
23 think he really has to take a close look at
24 that.
25 If we can manage to find a way to
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1 provide more local ingredients into our lunch
2 program, more vegetables and fruits that are
3 grown locally, I think that's a win-win. It's
4 a win for our agricultural people in our state
5 who are already hurting, and I think anything
6 we can do to assist them is beneficial.
7 And we just have to find a way to
8 make that possible so that we can use the
9 local fruits and vegetables, which in some
10 cases are going to be a little more expensive
11 but it certainly is of value to our economy
12 and I think to the children because it's very,
13 very fresh.
14 I think this is an excellent bill,
15 and I hope that we will be able to negotiate
16 something closer to this than to what the
17 Governor has offered us.
18 Thank you.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Is there any
20 other Senator wishing to speak on the bill?
21 Senator Sampson.
22 SENATOR SAMPSON: Thank you,
23 Mr. President. On the bill.
24 I want to commend Senator Saland
25 for this legislation, especially the piece of
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1 the legislation that deals with allowing
2 school districts to purchase New York State
3 agricultural products. And I commend you
4 especially; that will be very helpful to our
5 farmers upstate and our upstate economy.
6 One thing I would love to see if
7 this was in the bill would be the posting of
8 nutritional values. We talk about we want our
9 kids to eat nutritional meals and we're
10 concerned about the cholesterol level. And,
11 you know, I'm concerned about when our kids
12 are eating or what foods they eat, because you
13 are what you eat.
14 But at the same time, we need to be
15 posting the nutritional levels that kids are
16 consuming. So if the bill could be tweaked,
17 that's the only piece of the bill I would like
18 to see tweaked dealing with the nutritional
19 information that needs to be provided to our
20 children so they know exactly what they're
21 eating.
22 But once again, I want to commend
23 the sponsor for the legislation.
24 Thank you, Mr. President.
25 THE PRESIDENT: Is there any
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1 other Senator that would like to speak on the
2 bill?
3 Senator Stavisky.
4 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you,
5 Mr. President.
6 It's been said that breakfast is
7 the most important meal of the day. And a
8 number of years ago, back I guess it was in
9 the early '70s when my husband was in the
10 Assembly chairing the Education Committee, he
11 was the sponsor of the school breakfast bill,
12 the first one I believe in the country, but
13 certainly the current law where we provide
14 school breakfasts -- breakfasts in the schools
15 of New York.
16 The reason I mention this,
17 Mr. President, is that earlier today we
18 dedicated a post office in Flushing in my
19 district in Leonard's memory. And while I
20 wish there had been a breakfast component to
21 this bill, I think it's a great start and I'm
22 delighted to support this bill.
23 Thank you.
24 THE PRESIDENT: Is there any
25 other Senator who would like to speak on this
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1 bill?
2 Senator Maziarz? Senator Robach?
3 No? Please.
4 (Laughter.)
5 SENATOR DUANE: Explanation.
6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Robach?
7 No? Not even Senator Duane? Breakfast is the
8 most important meal of the day. Dinner must
9 be, because a lot of members seem fed up
10 around here.
11 (Laughter.)
12 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary
13 will read the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE PRESIDENT: Announce the
19 results.
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61. Nays,
21 0.
22 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is
23 passed.
24 Senator Maltese.
25 SENATOR MALTESE: Mr. President,
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1 would you lay aside 1176 for the day.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Senate Calendar
3 1176 will be laid aside for the day.
4 With that, that completes the
5 controversial reading of the calendar, Senator
6 Maltese.
7 SENATOR MALTESE: Is there any
8 other business at the desk?
9 THE PRESIDENT: Fortunately no,
10 Senator.
11 SENATOR MALTESE: There being no
12 further business, I move we adjourn until
13 Tuesday, May 22nd, at 11:00 a.m.
14 THE PRESIDENT: On motion, the
15 Senate is adjourned until Tuesday, May 22nd,
16 at 11:00 a.m.
17 (Whereupon, at 6:23 p.m., the
18 Senate adjourned.)
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