Regular Session - March 31, 2009
1861
1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
2
3
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
5
6
7
8
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 March 31, 2009
11 11:27 a.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
15
16
17
18 SENATOR DAVID J. VALESKY, Acting President
19 ANGELO J. APONTE, Secretary
20
21
22
23
24
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
3 Senate will please come to order.
4 I ask everyone present to please
5 rise and recite with me the Pledge of
6 Allegiance.
7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited
8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: In the
10 absence of clergy, may we bow our heads in a
11 moment of silence.
12 (Whereupon, the assemblage
13 respected a moment of silence.)
14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
15 reading of the Journal.
16 The Secretary will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
18 Monday, March 30, the Senate met pursuant to
19 adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, March 29,
20 was read and approved. On motion, Senate
21 adjourned.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
23 Without objection, the Journal stands approved
24 as read.
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1 Presentation of petitions.
2 Messages from the Assembly.
3 Messages from the Governor.
4 Reports of standing committees.
5 Reports of select committees.
6 Communications and reports from
7 state officers.
8 Motions and resolutions.
9 Senator Klein.
10 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President,
11 Senator Foley has a resolution at the desk. I
12 ask that the title of the resolution be read,
13 move for its immediate adoption, and allow
14 Senator Foley to speak on the resolution.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
16 Secretary will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Foley,
18 Resolution Number 973, memorializing Governor
19 David A. Paterson to declare April 2009 as
20 Financial Literacy Month in the State of
21 New York.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
23 Senator Foley, on the resolution.
24 SENATOR FOLEY: Thank you,
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1 Mr. President.
2 This resolution designates
3 April 2009 as Financial Literacy Month and
4 highlights the important of financial literacy
5 and encourages all New Yorkers to increase
6 their understanding of saving, investing, and
7 credit choices.
8 Financial literacy empowers
9 New Yorkers to make wise financial decisions.
10 New York State consumers face many choices
11 which affect their financial future. Every
12 day, consumers conduct some type of financial
13 transaction that requires well-informed and
14 educated decision-making, whether it has to do
15 with reconciling credit card statements,
16 securing affordable financing for a new or
17 used car, saving for their children's college
18 education and retirement, or starting a family
19 business.
20 As a statewide public awareness
21 effort, Financial Literacy Month is a perfect
22 opportunity for businesses and organizations
23 to show their current financial literacy
24 efforts and to become involved in this
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1 important effort to make financial literacy
2 education a priority throughout our state.
3 Businesses and organizations can
4 partner together or individually to offer free
5 workshops, classes and other types of
6 community events. They can also contribute
7 resources to facilitate and promote events to
8 help consumers learn to manage their personal
9 finances.
10 And just take this statistic alone,
11 Mr. President. Last year the U.S. consumer
12 debt totaled $2.57 trillion, and credit card
13 debt alone exceeded $976 billion. And during
14 the third quarter of 2008, over 14 percent of
15 disposable personal income went towards paying
16 the interest on personal debt.
17 I believe, Mr. President, that many
18 of the problems that have been brought to my
19 committee, as chair of the Banking Committee,
20 could be avoided if people had a more sound
21 financial education. Improved financial
22 literacy across New York State not only would
23 help people create a more solid financial
24 situation for themselves and for their
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1 families, it will also reduce the number of
2 issues that necessitate legislative or
3 regulatory solutions.
4 I would say, in closing, that this
5 particular memorializing resolution declaring
6 April Financial Literacy Month has been a
7 long-held tradition as to whomever the chair
8 of Banking is. In the past 20 years, ranking
9 member and former chair Senator Hugh Farley
10 has sponsored this resolution. He cosponsors
11 the resolution with me today, signifying a
12 bipartisan approach to something that's very,
13 very important to our state and to our
14 country, the absolute imperative and need to
15 improve our financial literacy throughout our
16 state to help our citizens with their
17 finances.
18 And this is one way that we can
19 help, by highlighting the fact that April is
20 Financial Literacy Month, and to help, working
21 with those in the private sector, along with
22 us in the public sector, to empower our
23 New York State residents through helping them
24 with such issues as how to, for instance,
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1 better prepare their own personal finances.
2 So it's a very important issue,
3 Mr. Chairman, and I look forward to working in
4 a bipartisan fashion in these remaining months
5 to help our New York State citizens with their
6 finances.
7 Thank you very much.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
9 you, Senator Foley.
10 Senator Klein, on the resolution.
11 SENATOR KLEIN: Thank you,
12 Mr. President.
13 I want to praise my colleague, the
14 chairman of the Banking Committee, Senator
15 Brian Foley, for bringing up this resolution
16 today on Financial Literacy Month. Clearly
17 everyone knows the problems we've seen because
18 of the subprime lending crisis. And
19 unfortunately, I'm always bothered when I
20 watch some of the talking heads on some of the
21 business channels or read some of the
22 financial journals blaming the poor homeowner
23 who got into a mortgage they couldn't afford.
24 I think a lot of that could have
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1 been prevented if we had education
2 requirements. I know my colleague Senator
3 Sampson has a piece of legislation which
4 hopefully we're going to pass quickly, because
5 one of the things I think we need to do is be
6 very clear. The subprime lending crisis was
7 not caused by the small first-time homeowner;
8 it was caused by people who really should have
9 known better than the mortgage that people
10 were entering into was over their head and
11 very, very complicated.
12 I think one of the things that I
13 learned, in having hearings all over the state
14 on this issue, is time and time again you had
15 people who didn't really know the intricacies
16 of the mortgage process. Most lawyers, when
17 they go to a closing, don't always know the
18 intricacies of the mortgage process.
19 So I think we have to do a lot more
20 to make sure that when someone goes to
21 purchase a home they know the specifics of the
22 deal they're getting into.
23 It's also very interesting, one of
24 the things that we saw last year is that
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1 53 percent of the people who lost their homes
2 due to foreclosure had absolutely no contact
3 with their lending institution. So there was
4 certainly no way that the individual could
5 modify their mortgage or really learn how to
6 improve the terms they got into.
7 So again, I want to praise Senator
8 Foley. Besides actually recognizing Financial
9 Literacy Month, I know we have to do a lot
10 more to make sure it becomes statute and
11 protect homeowners and really protect anyone
12 to make sure they know what they bargained
13 for.
14 Again, I thank Senator Foley.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
16 you, Senator Klein.
17 Are there any other Senators who
18 wish to be heard on the resolution?
19 Seeing none, the question is on the
20 resolution. All in favor signify by saying
21 aye.
22 (Response of "Aye.")
23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
24 Opposed, nay.
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1 (No response.)
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
3 resolution is adopted.
4 Senator Foley has requested that
5 the resolution be open for cosponsorship. Any
6 member wishing not to cosponsor the resolution
7 should so inform the desk.
8 Senator Klein.
9 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President,
10 Senator Squadron has a resolution at the desk.
11 I ask that the title be read and move for its
12 immediate adoption and give Senator Squadron
13 the opportunity to speak on the said
14 resolution.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
16 Secretary will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
18 Squadron, Legislative Resolution Number 1131,
19 mourning the death of Robert S. Guskind,
20 talented, journalist, author, photographer
21 editor and devoted member of his community.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
23 Senator Squadron, on the resolution.
24 SENATOR SQUADRON: Thank you,
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1 Mr. President.
2 I rise to honor the life and the
3 work of Robert S. Guskind, who died just a
4 couple of weeks ago, tragically, at the age of
5 50. Bob Guskind was a member of the Carroll
6 Gardens community and a leader in the entire
7 Brooklyn community. He was a journalist who
8 worked at the Washington Post, at the National
9 Journal, wrote a book, and also, in recent
10 years, was a blogger. He took this new form
11 of communication and really took it to a new
12 level.
13 Blogs in parts of Brooklyn are
14 about as active and there are about as many of
15 them as anywhere in the country. And Bob
16 Guskind's blog, Gowanus Lounge, was as good as
17 any blog certainly in the Borough of Brooklyn
18 and I would say anywhere in our nation.
19 What he did through this blog was
20 he was able to take community activism, take
21 community concerns and describe them, distill
22 them, and distribute them in ways that never
23 could have happened without him. He did it
24 with incredible wit, he did it with
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1 incisiveness. And on any issue, whether it
2 was the building development across the street
3 from my own home or the rezoning of the entire
4 Gowanus neighborhood or the broader question
5 of what's happening as Brooklyn changes so
6 quickly, he was able to bring to light and
7 bring images and words that brought the
8 community together even when we disagreed with
9 him.
10 He often wasn't gentle in his
11 writing; he was often brutal. He was always
12 interesting and brought incredible value to
13 the issues that matter throughout Brooklyn.
14 In fact, his blog was so impressive that he
15 was hired by Curbed of New York City, one of
16 the biggest blogs in the entire City of
17 New York, to write on neighborhood issues, to
18 write on questions of development and growth.
19 I didn't always agree with Bob
20 Guskind, and he didn't always agree with me.
21 But the fact that Gowanus Lounge existed, the
22 fact that he was able to bring his perspective
23 to Curbed, is something that has made me a
24 better public servant, has made my community
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1 stronger, has made the entire Brooklyn
2 community more educated and more empowered.
3 And his loss is a great loss for
4 all of us in Brooklyn. I think it's a great
5 loss also for the expanding and significant
6 blogosphere. You know, he mastered this, he
7 mastered this form early on. And whether it
8 was releasing plans that we never would have
9 seen or writing an essay that moved all of us,
10 we're going to miss him sorely.
11 So I wanted to take a moment for
12 this body to pause and honor the life and the
13 work of Bob Guskind, what he brought to all of
14 us, and the gap that we're now going to have
15 to fill as a community and as blogosphere
16 overall.
17 Thank you very much.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
19 you, Senator Squadron.
20 Are there any other Senators who
21 wish to be heard?
22 Seeing none, the question is on the
23 resolution. All in favor signify by saying
24 aye.
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1 (Response of "Aye.")
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
3 Opposed, nay.
4 (No response.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
6 resolution is adopted.
7 And the Senate, in passing the
8 resolution, mourns the death of Robert S.
9 Guskind.
10 Senator Squadron has also asked
11 that this resolution be open for
12 cosponsorship. Any member not willing to
13 cosponsor the resolution should inform the
14 desk.
15 Senator Klein.
16 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President,
17 Senator McDonald has a resolution at the desk.
18 I ask that the resolution be read in its
19 entirety and move for its immediate adoption.
20 I would ask Senator McDonald to
21 speak on the resolution, but as you can see,
22 Senator McDonald is not here.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
24 Secretary will read.
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1 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
2 McDonald, Legislative Resolution Number 870,
3 commemorating the 32nd Annual South Glens
4 Falls High School Marathon Dance.
5 "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this
6 Legislative Body to recognize and pay tribute
7 to those young people within the great Empire
8 State who have made strong contributions to
9 their communities and who serve as role models
10 for their peers; and
11 "WHEREAS, Attendant to such
12 concern, and in full accord with its
13 longstanding traditions, this Legislative Body
14 is justly proud to commemorate the 32nd Annual
15 South Glens Falls High School Marathon Dance;
16 and
17 "WHEREAS, A tradition in the
18 community, the South Glens Falls High School
19 Marathon Dance began in 1978, when about
20 40 dancers raised money for the Moreau
21 Emergency Squad. This year, there were 701
22 dancers and over 200 community volunteers who
23 supplied food, prizes and services; and
24 "WHEREAS, The four student cochairs
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1 of the 32nd Annual South Glens Falls High
2 School Marathon Dance were seniors Taylor
3 Bulman, Brycen Waters and Nicole Valastro, and
4 sophomore Kelly McFarlane. They were advised
5 by faculty members Jody Sheldon and Tom Myott
6 and supported by Superintendent Dr. James
7 McCarthy; and
8 "WHEREAS, The theme of the 32nd
9 South Glens Falls High School Marathon Dance
10 was 'Marathon is out of this world,' and a new
11 record of over $260,000 was raised for
12 22 recipients, including the MD Anderson
13 Cancer Center in Houston, Texas, where retired
14 teacher Mike Nolan is being treated, pushing
15 the total raised by the event to over
16 $2 million; and
17 "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this
18 Legislative Body that when young people of
19 such noble aims and accomplishments are
20 brought to our attention, they should be
21 celebrated and recognized by all the citizens
22 of the great State of New York; and
23 "WHEREAS, In light of their
24 commitment, dedication, and successful
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1 efforts, it is the sense of this Legislative
2 Body to extend its highest commendation to
3 South Glens Falls High School and all of the
4 participants at its 32nd Annual Marathon
5 Dance; now, therefore, be it
6 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative
7 Body pause in its deliberations to commemorate
8 the 32nd Annual South Glens Falls High School
9 Marathon Dance; and be it further
10 "RESOLVED, That a copy of this
11 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
12 to South Glens Falls High School."
13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
14 question is on the resolution. All in favor
15 signify by saying aye.
16 (Response of "Aye.")
17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
18 Opposed, nay.
19 (No response.)
20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
21 resolution is adopted.
22 Senator Klein.
23 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, as
24 you know, we're going to pass our budget
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1 today, an on-time budget. We are waiting for
2 our colleagues on the other side of the aisle.
3 So until then, can we please stand at ease.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
5 Senate will stand at ease.
6 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
7 ease at 11:42 a.m.)
8 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened
9 at 1:38 p.m.)
10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
11 Senator Klein.
12 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President,
13 can we stand at ease until 6:00 p.m. this
14 evening, please.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
16 Senate will stand at ease until 6:00 p.m.
17 SENATOR KLEIN: Excuse me,
18 Mr. President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
20 Senator Klein.
21 SENATOR KLEIN: Can we stand at
22 ease until 3 o'clock.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
24 Senate will stand at ease until 3:00 p.m.
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1 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
2 ease at 1:39 p.m.)
3 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened
4 at 3:15 p.m.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
6 Senate will now return to the order of motions
7 and resolutions.
8 Senator Klein.
9 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President,
10 may we at this time take up Senator
11 Montgomery's resolution. I ask that the title
12 be read and move for its immediate adoption,
13 and give Senator Montgomery the opportunity to
14 speak on the said resolution.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
16 Secretary will read.
17 Could we have some quiet in the
18 chamber, please, so that we can hear the
19 Secretary read the resolution.
20 The Secretary will read.
21 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
22 Montgomery, Legislative Resolution Number
23 1132, honoring Lynn Nottage for her
24 outstanding play Ruined, which just completed
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1 a successful run at the Manhattan Theatre
2 Club.
3 "WHEREAS, The arts, in whatever
4 form depicted, are central to human
5 expression. They are truly a universal
6 language, and their contribution to the
7 development of friendship and understanding
8 among all peoples cannot be overestimated; and
9 "WHEREAS, The history, the
10 heritage, and the lives of the people of all
11 countries and all cultures are portrayed in
12 their music, dance and literature. The art
13 and the act of sharing them enriches us
14 altogether; and
15 "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this
16 Legislative Body to commend those individuals
17 of historic and artistic significance whose
18 creative talents have contributed to the
19 cultural enrichment of our communities and our
20 nation; and
21 "WHEREAS, Attendant to such
22 concern, and in full accord with its
23 longstanding traditions, this Legislative Body
24 is justly proud to honor Lynn Nottage for her
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1 outstanding play Ruined, which just completed
2 a successful run at the Manhattan Theatre
3 Club; and
4 "WHEREAS, A world premiere
5 coproduction with the Goodman Theater, Ruined
6 began previews at the Manhattan Theatre Club
7 on January 21, 2009, and ran through March 29,
8 2009; and
9 "WHEREAS, Set in a small town in
10 the Democratic Republic of Congo, Ruined
11 follows a shrewd businesswoman, Mama Nadi, and
12 the women she protects and profits from in a
13 land torn apart by civil war; and
14 "WHEREAS, Lynn Nottage is a
15 playwright from Brooklyn, New York, whose
16 other work includes 'Intimate Apparel,'
17 'Fabulation, or the Re-Education of Undine,'
18 'Crumbs from the Table of Joy,' and 'Las
19 Meninas,' which have been produced and
20 developed at theaters both nationally and
21 internationally; and
22 "WHEREAS, The quintessential
23 artist, Lynn Nottage has been the recipient of
24 a multitude of awards, including the 2007
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1 MacArthur Genius Award, an Obie Award for
2 playwriting in 2005, the New York Drama
3 Critics' Circle Award for Best Play, the John
4 Gassner Award for Best Playwright, the Outer
5 Critic Circle Award for Best Play, and the
6 American Theatre Critics/Steinberg New Play
7 Award in 2004; and
8 "WHEREAS, In addition, Lynn Nottage
9 was awarded a 2007 Lucille Lortel Foundation
10 Fellowship, a 2005 Guggenheim Fellowship, the
11 National Black Theatre Festival August Wilson
12 Playwriting Award and the 2004 PEN/Laura Pels
13 Award for Drama; and
14 "WHEREAS, A recent graduate of New
15 Dramatists, Lynn Nottage is also a graduate of
16 Brown University and the Yale School of Drama,
17 where she is currently a visiting lecturer.
18 Among her most recent publications are
19 Intimate Apparel and Fabulation and an
20 anthology of her plays, Crumbs from the Table
21 of Joy and Other Plays; and
22 "WHEREAS, This Legislative Body
23 recognizes the importance of the performing
24 arts, which act to inspire, enlighten, and
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1 unify people from all cultural backgrounds
2 through the transcendent power of human
3 expression; and
4 "WHEREAS, It is most fitting that
5 we take time to celebrate the arts of our
6 nation, to honor our artists, and to express
7 our appreciation to everyone who patronizes
8 the arts. As we celebrate the arts, we
9 celebrate and give thanks to our American
10 freedom, the only atmosphere in which artists
11 can truly create and in which art is truly the
12 expression of the soul; now, therefore, be it
13 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative
14 Body pause in its deliberations to honor Lynn
15 Nottage for her outstanding play Ruined, which
16 just completed a successful recent at the
17 Manhattan Theatre Club, and wish her continued
18 success in all her future endeavors; and be it
19 further
20 "RESOLVED, That a copy of this
21 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted
22 to Lynn Nottage."
23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
24 Senator Montgomery, on the resolution.
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1 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, thank
2 you, Mr. President.
3 We are really honored, I feel
4 honored today. This is the last day of
5 Women's History Month, and this is the last
6 woman that we are going to be honoring today.
7 And I'm very happy that she is here.
8 She is a constituent of mine, she's
9 a friend of mine, the daughter of a very good
10 friend and sister of mine. But more than
11 that, she now belongs to the whole State of
12 New York. She is a playwright of note and has
13 received many honors, including her
14 designation as one of the famous MacArthur
15 awardees for her genius in the arts in the
16 year 2007.
17 Her plays have been produced
18 throughout the U.S. and Europe at such venues
19 as the Second Stage Theater in New York, the
20 Tricycle Theater in London, and the
21 Steppenwolf Theater in Chicago.
22 Currently her play, the latest
23 play, Ruined, is now playing at the Manhattan
24 Center, and is one that has received any
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1 number of rave reviews, including in the
2 New York Times, the Daily News, and other
3 papers.
4 I want to just take a moment to say
5 that this is a young woman who has already,
6 even though she's not -- I don't even consider
7 her yet in her prime -- she has been so
8 recognized as -- for an example, one of her
9 plays, which was called Intimate Apparel, it
10 had won so many awards, including the New York
11 Drama Critics Circle Award, Best Play; Outer
12 Critics Circle Award, Best Play; the PEN/Laura
13 Pels Foundation Award; the American Theatre
14 Critics Association Francesca Primus Award,
15 Best Play; Steinberg New York Play Award;
16 AUDELCO Dramatic Production of the Year.
17 All of these noted awards were --
18 she was recipient of these awards because of
19 her play Intimate Apparel. And she is on her
20 way to receiving any number of accolades and
21 awards, including ours here today, for her
22 latest play, Ruined.
23 Now, Ruined is a play which also
24 acknowledges the pain and suffering that women
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1 receive at the hands of war. It takes place
2 in the Congo, and it is a dramatic
3 representation of what happens in particular
4 to women who have nothing to do with a war,
5 who are not involved in it, who were not the
6 cause of it but merely the victims of it. And
7 it's beautifully done, but it's extremely
8 significant. It's historical.
9 And I think, for those of us who
10 enjoy theater -- it's my understanding that
11 this particular theater happens to be in
12 Senator Liz Krueger's district, but here is
13 someone from Buffalo wanting her to come. She
14 will undoubtedly be moving around the country
15 with this play, as she has done in the past
16 with other plays.
17 So we're really, really honored.
18 She's a treasure, Lynn Nottage is a New York
19 treasure. And moreover, Mr. President, she is
20 a Brooklyn treasure. And moreover, she is an
21 18th Senate District Brooklyn treasure and a
22 friend of mine.
23 So I really applaud her, and I am
24 honored to be able to stand here and say to
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1 Lynn Nottage: We love you, we think that you
2 are wonderful, you've made such contributions
3 to the arts in our city and others, and we
4 look forward to seeing much more of your work
5 in the very near future.
6 Thank you, Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
8 you, Senator Montgomery.
9 Senator Serrano, on the resolution.
10 SENATOR SERRANO: Thank you,
11 Mr. President.
12 And I want to commend Senator
13 Montgomery for bringing this wonderful
14 resolution to the floor of the Senate. And I
15 would also like to congratulate Lynn for the
16 wonderful work that she is doing in theater.
17 And as chair of the Committee on
18 Cultural Affairs, and having had the good
19 fortune of working in nonprofit theater long
20 before I became an elected official, I know
21 full well the importance of artists in our
22 community and artists in our society.
23 Artists in so many ways are the
24 conscience of our society. They are the
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1 storytellers. They are the ones who let us
2 understand the history in a way that is
3 meaningful and purposeful in our society.
4 And, as Senator Montgomery, I join
5 her and many other colleagues here in the
6 Senate in a full understanding that the arts
7 are more than something that is aesthetic,
8 more than something that is nice if you can
9 have it -- but more importantly, the arts are
10 a pillar in our society, just as important as
11 any other major infrastructure. And without
12 the arts, without a cultural sector, we cease
13 to be a full, civilized society.
14 And I think it's fitting, Senator
15 Montgomery, that we have this wonderful
16 resolution during budget time. Because as we
17 look over the numbers and as we grapple with
18 the fiscal deficit that we have here in the
19 State of New York, it is so important that we
20 fortify and maintain the arts and culture in
21 the great State of New York. Because without
22 it, not only do we not have the wonderful
23 educational component for our families and for
24 our society, but we also lose a major economic
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1 engine that can help spur the economy at a
2 time of fiscal downturn.
3 So for that and so many reasons, I
4 congratulate Lynn and I congratulate Senator
5 Montgomery for bringing this resolution to the
6 floor.
7 Thank you.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
9 you, Senator Serrano.
10 Senator Squadron, on the
11 resolution.
12 SENATOR SQUADRON: I thank the
13 chair.
14 I first want to acknowledge Senator
15 Montgomery for acknowledging Lynn Nottage
16 today. It's so important, as Senator Serrano
17 said, especially on a day when our minds are
18 so much on the budget, to focus on the arts
19 and on these higher goals. I think it is a
20 reminder for all of us as to why a good budget
21 and why a functional state is so important.
22 Especially at the end of Women's
23 History Month -- it's not just the end of the
24 budget time, but it's a time when we
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1 acknowledge the role and the expansion of
2 women in the arts and the great accomplishment
3 that Ruined is, in taking, as I understand it,
4 a Brecht play and modifying it -- "Mother
5 Courage," as I understand it -- and updating
6 it and bringing it into a modern context that
7 says so much about our world, about the role
8 of women and of men.
9 So I have not yet seen the show, as
10 you can tell from my description of it,
11 because I've been up here. But I also
12 appreciate Lynn Nottage coming up today and
13 reminding us of the great things that we can
14 home for.
15 I have not seen nearly enough
16 theater and focused nearly enough on art since
17 I've been in politics; I think many of us
18 don't. And so I'm glad to spend a moment
19 today to do it.
20 And I am particularly honored that
21 your show was at Manhattan Theatre Club. My
22 father was chair of the board of the City
23 Center Theater for a quarter of a century,
24 helped build it, helped bring Manhattan
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1 Theatre Club there. And I know that it was
2 with plays like yours and creations like yours
3 and people like you that he had in mind when
4 he fought to save and expand City Center
5 Theater. So it's a great honor that you come
6 and joined us and that you have honored that
7 place with this show.
8 So I urge you to stay in Brooklyn,
9 stay in New York, keep working, and please
10 also welcome other new and young artists in
11 New York and keep them in the arts. Don't let
12 them fall into politics or anything else.
13 Because such a big part of who we are is
14 having young artists develop and stay and grow
15 here.
16 So I congratulate you today, and I
17 congratulate you on your great accomplishment.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
19 you, Senator Squadron.
20 Are there any other Senators who
21 wish to be heard on the resolution?
22 Seeing none, the question is on the
23 resolution. All in favor signify by saying
24 aye.
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1 (Response of "Aye.")
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
3 Opposed, nay.
4 (No response.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
6 resolution is adopted.
7 Ms. Nottage, on behalf of Senator
8 Montgomery, Senator Serrano, Senator Squadron,
9 and all the members of the Senate, we thank
10 you for the contributions you have made and
11 continue to make to the people of the state.
12 We hope you enjoy your visit here to the
13 Senate chamber and to Albany, and all best
14 wishes in the future.
15 (Applause.)
16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
17 Senator Klein.
18 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, I
19 believe Senator Perkins has a resolution at
20 the desk. I ask that the resolution be read
21 in its entirety, move for its immediate
22 adoption, and allow Senator Perkins to speak
23 on his resolution.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
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1 Secretary will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: By Senator
3 Perkins, Legislative Resolution Number 1133,
4 celebrating the life and accomplishments of
5 abolitionist, women's rights activist, and
6 humanitarian Sojourner Truth, 1797-1883.
7 "WHEREAS, March is Women's History
8 Month, a time to honor, reflect on, and pay
9 tribute to the women of our nation for their
10 significant contributions and dedication to
11 fighting equality for all women; and
12 "WHEREAS, The efforts and
13 accomplishments of African-American women are
14 all too often overlooked, and the need to
15 recognize their commitment is worthwhile,
16 meaningful, and long overdue; and
17 "WHEREAS, Attendant to such
18 concern, and in full accord with its
19 longstanding traditions, this Legislative Body
20 is justly proud to celebrate the life and
21 accomplishments of abolitionist, women's
22 rights activist, and humanitarian Sojourner
23 Truth, 1797-1889; and
24 "WHEREAS, Born Isabella Baumfree in
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1 1797, on the Johannes Hardenbergh estate in
2 the Swartekill neighborhood in what was then
3 the Town of Hurley, New York, but is now in
4 Esopus, Sojourner Truth is considered to be
5 one of the two most famous black women of the
6 19th century; and
7 "WHEREAS, Sojourner Truth was a
8 19th-century Ulster County former slave and
9 forerunner of the women's and civil rights
10 movements. She, like many other slaves, had
11 watched her brothers and sisters be sold into
12 slavery and taken away from their families;
13 and
14 "WHEREAS, Sojourner Truth grew up
15 speaking Dutch and had at least five children
16 (two daughters were sold away from her). She
17 fled her owners' household in 1827, found
18 refuge in the home of the Van Wageners, and
19 took their name; and
20 "WHEREAS, In 1843, she was inspired
21 to change her name from Isabella Van Wagener
22 to Sojourner Truth, and to set out to become a
23 preacher. She ended up in Northampton,
24 Massachusetts, with a utopian community, and
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1 stayed there until 1850, when she settled in
2 Battle Creek, Michigan. By that time, she had
3 given lectures on abolition and women's rights
4 in many public appearances; and
5 "WHEREAS, 'Ain't I A Woman?' is
6 persuasive, motivational, inspirational and
7 the most recognized speech by Sojourner Truth.
8 She delivered it at a women's rights
9 convention in Akron, Ohio, in 1851; and
10 "WHEREAS, The celebrated Sojourner
11 Truth had excellent powers of oration which
12 are highlighted forever in her famous speech.
13 This remarkable lady's unwavering dedication
14 to the women's suffrage movement stands as a
15 beacon of inspiration for all women, both then
16 and now, who have struggled and continue to
17 struggle for their rights; and
18 "WHEREAS, Sojourner Truth was
19 received by President Abraham Lincoln at the
20 White House in 1864. After the war, she
21 advocated a 'Negro State' and promoted the
22 emigration of African-Americans to the West.
23 She continued to travel throughout much of the
24 Northeast, lecturing on a variety of
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1 inspirational and social reform topics, before
2 retiring to Battle Creek, Michigan, in her
3 later years; and
4 "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this
5 Legislative Body that Women's History Month is
6 a highly felicitous time to recognize and
7 honor women of greatness; now, therefore, be
8 it
9 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative
10 Body pause in its deliberations to celebrate
11 the life and accomplishments of abolitionist,
12 women's rights activist and humanitarian
13 Sojourner Truth, 1797-1883."
14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
15 Senator Perkins, on the resolution.
16 SENATOR PERKINS: Thank you very
17 much, Mr. President.
18 Sojourner Truth often said that
19 "Truth is powerful, and it prevails." The
20 message of Sojourner Truth is indeed powerful,
21 and her message will prevail.
22 Sojourner Truth devoted her life to
23 the women's suffrage movement. She was an
24 accomplished abolitionist, women's rights
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1 activist and humanitarian. As a forerunner in
2 the movement for women's rights, she was often
3 faced with naysayers and pessimists who told
4 her to quit or to give up. However, she never
5 quit or gave up. Her steadfast commitment to
6 the cause of women's rights is an enduring
7 reminder for those of us who continue to fight
8 for what she so boldly stood for.
9 As a society, we are infinitely
10 fortunate to have individuals like Sojourner
11 Truth who are willing to devote their lives to
12 the cause of civil and human rights. It's my
13 honor to introduce this resolution and give
14 tribute to such an amazing woman, Sojourner
15 Truth.
16 Thank you.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
18 you, Senator Perkins.
19 Are there any other Senators who
20 wish to be heard on the resolution?
21 Seeing none, the question is on the
22 resolution. All in favor signify by saying
23 aye.
24 (Response of "Aye.")
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
2 Opposed, nay.
3 (No response.)
4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
5 resolution is adopted.
6 Both this resolution and Senator
7 Montgomery's resolution are open for
8 multisponsorship. Any member of the Senate
9 wishing not to sign on as a cosponsor should
10 notify the desk.
11 Senator Klein.
12 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, at
13 this time can we stand at ease until the call
14 of the Majority Leader.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
16 Senate will stand at ease until the call of
17 the Majority Leader.
18 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
19 ease at 3:34 p.m.)
20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
21 Senator Klein.
22 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President,
23 I'm happy to report that the Senate will
24 convene at 5:30.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
2 Senate will continue to stand at ease and will
3 reconvene at 5:30.
4 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened
5 at 5:43 p.m.)
6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
7 Senate will return at this time to the order
8 of motions and resolutions.
9 Senator Klein.
10 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President,
11 there will be an immediate meeting of the
12 Rules Committee in the Majority Conference
13 Room.
14 Pending the conclusion of the Rules
15 Committee, may we please stand at ease.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: There
17 will be an immediate meeting of the Committee
18 on Rules in the Majority Conference Room,
19 Room 332.
20 The Senate will stand at ease
21 pending the report of the Rules Committee.
22 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
23 ease at 5:44 p.m.)
24 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened
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1 at 6:01 p.m.)
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
3 Senator Klein.
4 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, I
5 believe there's a report of the Rules
6 Committee at the desk. I move that we accept
7 the report of the Rules Committee.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
9 Senator Klein, there is a report of the Rules
10 Committee at the desk, and the Secretary will
11 read.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith,
13 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
14 following bills:
15 Senate Print 50C, Senate Budget
16 Bill, an act making appropriations for the
17 support of government: Public Protection and
18 General Government Budget;
19 51A, Senate Budget Bill, an act
20 making appropriations for the support of
21 government: Legislature and Judiciary Budget;
22 53C, Senate Budget Bill, an act
23 making appropriations for the support of
24 government: Education, Labor and Family
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1 Assistance Budget;
2 54C, Senate Budget Bill, an act
3 making appropriations for the support of
4 government: Health and Mental Hygiene Budget;
5 55C, Senate Budget Bill, an act
6 making appropriations for the support of
7 government: Transportation, Economic
8 Development and Environmental Conservation
9 Budget;
10 56B, Senate Budget Bill, an act to
11 amend the State Finance Law;
12 57B, Senate Budget Bill, an act to
13 amend the Education Law;
14 58B, Senate Budget Bill, an act to
15 amend the Public Health Law and the Elder Law;
16 And Senate Print 59B, Senate Budget
17 Bill, an act to amend Chapter 279 of the Laws
18 of 1998 amending the Transportation Law.
19 All bills ordered direct to third
20 reading.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
22 Senator Klein.
23 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, at
24 this time can we take up Supplemental Calendar
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1 29A.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
3 Senator Klein, if we could have a motion to
4 adopt the report of the Rules Committee.
5 SENATOR KLEIN: I make a motion
6 to adopt the report of the Rules Committee.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: All
8 those in favor of adopting the report of the
9 Rules Committee please signify by saying aye.
10 (Response of "Aye.")
11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
12 Opposed, nay.
13 (Response of "Nay.")
14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
15 report of the Rules Committee is adopted.
16 Senator Klein.
17 SENATOR KLEIN: Could we now take
18 up Supplemental Calendar 29A.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
20 Secretary will read Senate Supplemental
21 Calendar 29A.
22 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
23 Calendar Number --
24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Excuse
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1 me.
2 Senator Skelos, why do you rise?
3 SENATOR SKELOS: This is on the
4 consent calendar or the debate calendar? Oh,
5 the debate calendar, thank you.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: This
7 will be the noncontroversial reading of the
8 supplemental calendar, Senator Skelos.
9 The Secretary will read.
10 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
11 Calendar Number 134, Senator C. Kruger moves
12 to discharge, from the Committee on Finance,
13 Assembly Bill Number 155C and substitute it
14 for the identical Senate Bill Number 55C,
15 Third Reading Calendar 134.
16 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay it aside,
17 please.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
19 Substitution ordered.
20 The Secretary will read.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 134, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print
23 155C, an act making appropriations for the
24 support of government.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
2 bill is laid aside.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 138, Senate Budget Bill, Senate Print 59B, an
5 act to amend Chapter 279 of the Laws of 1998.
6 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay it aside,
7 please.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
9 bill is laid aside.
10 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
11 Calendar Number 133, Senator C. Kruger moves
12 to discharge, from the Committee on Finance,
13 Assembly Bill Number 154C and substitute it
14 for the identical Senate Bill Number 54C,
15 Third Reading Calendar 133.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
17 Substitution ordered.
18 The Secretary will read.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 133, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print
21 Number 154C, an act making appropriations for
22 the support of government.
23 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay it aside.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
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1 bill is laid aside.
2 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
3 Calendar Number 137, Senator C. Kruger moves
4 to discharge, from the Committee on Finance,
5 Assembly Bill Number 158B and substitute it
6 for the identical Senate Bill Number 58B,
7 Third Reading Calendar 137.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
9 substitution is ordered, and the Secretary
10 will read.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 137, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print
13 Number 158B, an act to amend the Public Health
14 Law and the Elder Law.
15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay the bill
16 aside.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
18 bill is laid aside.
19 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
20 Calendar Number 132, Senator C. Kruger moves
21 to discharge, from the Committee on Finance,
22 Assembly Bill Number 153C and substitute it
23 for the identical Senate Bill Number 53C,
24 Third Reading Calendar 132.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
2 substitution is ordered, and the Secretary
3 will read.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 132, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print
6 Number 153C, an act making appropriations for
7 the support of government: Education, Labor
8 and Family Assistance Budget.
9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay it aside,
10 please.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
12 bill is laid aside.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 136, Senate Budget Bill, Senate Print 57B, an
15 act to amend the Education Law.
16 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay the bill
17 aside, please.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
19 bill is laid aside.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 131, Senate Budget Bill, Senate Print 51A, an
22 act making appropriations for the support of
23 government: Legislature and Judiciary Budget.
24 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay the bill
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1 aside, please.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
3 bill is laid aside.
4 Senator Klein, that completes the
5 noncontroversial reading of Senate
6 Supplemental Calendar 29A.
7 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, at
8 this time can we please have a reading of the
9 controversial Supplemental Calendar 29A, and
10 begin with Calendar Number 134.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
12 Secretary will ring the bells.
13 I ask all members to come to the
14 chamber to be prepared to consider the first
15 of the nine budget bills.
16 We will begin on the controversial
17 calendar with Calendar Number 134, and the
18 Secretary will read.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 134, substituted earlier, Assembly Budget
21 Bill, Assembly Print Number 155C, an act
22 making appropriations for the support of
23 government: Transportation, Economic
24 Development and Environmental Conservation
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1 Budget.
2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Explanation.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
4 Senator Kruger, an explanation of the bill has
5 been requested.
6 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 Today is March 31, 2009, a historic
9 moment in the life of every New Yorker and a
10 historic moment in the life of this chamber.
11 For the first time -- actually, for the sixth
12 time in 33 years we're in this house
13 presenting a budget on time and on balance.
14 This budget is the representation
15 of 13 public hearings on a budget that was
16 presented by the Governor on December 16th of
17 last year. The hearings began on January 13th
18 of this year; 428 individual groups testified
19 before those 13 public hearings. Over 5,000
20 letters were received on that budget, 23,000
21 hits on the Senate Majority website.
22 Thousands of pages of testimony were received
23 and documented.
24 Out of that budget came the
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1 deliberations which we face this evening.
2 Hugh Carey in 1975, in his State of the State
3 message, said that the days of wine and roses
4 were over. Well, little did he know that
5 44 years later this house would face a budget
6 with a $17 billion deficit -- at the time,
7 interestingly enough, a deficit that was equal
8 to almost the size of his budget.
9 However, we've approached this
10 knowing full well that New York is not an
11 island, that our communities face the issues
12 of those communities across this great state
13 and around this nation. Today we live in a
14 global society with a global economic picture.
15 There is a meltdown taking place right before
16 us. Every day, the loss becomes greater and
17 greater. Every day that we considered the
18 budget, our deficit grew larger and larger.
19 Tens of thousands of people lost their jobs
20 while we continued these deliberations.
21 The phrase was coined that this was
22 sort of a moving target. Well, it was a
23 target that you could never really find the
24 bull's-eye. And because of that, this became
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1 a difficult process, a process that many of
2 us -- in fact, all of us -- should not be
3 happy with, a process that needed tuning and
4 refining. And it's a process that is a
5 product in motion.
6 Today's budget is a reflection of
7 those shared values. The cuts that we have
8 placed on our programs have been huge:
9 $6 billion worth of cuts from last year's
10 programs and last year's budget have become
11 the cornerstone of this year's budget. It's a
12 sad comment, but it's a comment that we have
13 to deal with.
14 We as elected officials, we as the
15 upper house in this Legislature, had a keen
16 and unique responsibility. We had to
17 recognize our common needs and the basic
18 concerns of the people that we come here
19 for -- the sick, the poor, the developmentally
20 disabled, the aged. At the same time, we had
21 to create jobs, we had to foster new
22 development, we had to recognize that we must
23 advance technology, we must protect education,
24 provide for our universities, and keep in mind
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1 that the budget had to be balanced and the
2 budget ultimately had to be approved.
3 And we've done that. We've done
4 that succinctly, we've done it on target, and
5 we've done it on time.
6 Many people will feel that this
7 budget doesn't reflect the spending patterns
8 that they would like to see. And members will
9 debate that today, tonight, and tomorrow. And
10 in many instances their arguments will ring a
11 positive note, because none of us should be
12 happy with this budget. None of us should
13 feel that the cuts were done as cuts should
14 have been done.
15 But they had to be done. The
16 restorations that were made, the revenue that
17 was generated was to fill a huge spending gap.
18 The stimulus money that came down from
19 Washington, I said during the hearing everyone
20 was getting stimulated over the stimulus
21 money. Well, they were getting
22 overstimulated. Because at the end of the
23 day, when Washington was finished with the
24 rules and regulations and when we had to
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1 actually look at the money that we got, we saw
2 full well that the money that we got was not
3 the money that could be used in the places
4 that we really wanted to use them in the
5 fullest context of a stimulus package.
6 So we were left with using those
7 funds, with making severe cuts, and at the
8 same time having to generate new revenue.
9 We've done all three of those components.
10 That's why we're here tonight with a balanced,
11 on-time budget.
12 As this drama unfolds and as the
13 chairpeople of our committees present this
14 budget and as we all share in the debate that
15 surrounds it, we have to recognize full well
16 that this committee did not operate in a
17 vacuum. We reached out to the other side. We
18 tried to bring all of the partisan politics
19 out of this process and make it truly a
20 representative sampling of what this
21 Legislature is all about.
22 Many may disagree with that. And I
23 don't need a show of hands. But at the same
24 time, at the same time, the facts are that
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1 that attempt was made.
2 And could we have done a better
3 job? Perhaps. And will we do a better job in
4 the future? For sure. But at the same time,
5 the vision that we had, the complexities of
6 the issues in front of us, the need to develop
7 a strategy that would extricate us from what
8 has become the greatest economic downturn of
9 modern times, put us on a reform path.
10 We tried to retool the way we
11 deliver healthcare in this state, to
12 understand the obligations that we have
13 towards the State University system, to try to
14 lasso in the cost of home care and nursing
15 care, to understand that economic development
16 and job creation will be the true prescription
17 for long-time success.
18 We are on a road, the road that we
19 have charted today begins. New York is at a
20 precipice. But at the same time, as Yogi
21 Berra said: When you see a fork in the road,
22 take it. Well, we've taken it. We've taken
23 the road that brings us to fiscal strength, to
24 understand that we have to reshape the way we
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1 govern and the way we deliver services, that
2 we can't continue to expect to spend more and
3 get less in. As Hugh Carey said, truly the
4 days of wine and roses are over.
5 Thank you.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
7 you, Senator Kruger.
8 Senator Skelos.
9 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you,
10 Mr. President.
11 And Senator Kruger, I agree with
12 you on one point. Today is March 31st.
13 And this is the first time we've
14 had an open public debate of this budget. And
15 I think that this is unfortunate for the
16 people of the State of New York, who because
17 of what you're going to do, and your Democrat
18 friends and the Democrat Governor, they're
19 going to pay for this budget in so many
20 ways -- through higher taxes, and possibly
21 with the loss of their jobs.
22 Senator Kruger, you mentioned the
23 day of wine and roses is over. That's because
24 you're going to tax wine. You're going to tax
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1 beer. And we should take a sip of water,
2 because you're going to be taxing water before
3 this session is over. And that's important,
4 that's unfortunate, because that impacts the
5 quality of life that so many people in
6 New York State desire. And they're losing it
7 because of what your side of the aisle is
8 doing.
9 As you know, in the past we broke
10 the cycle of late budgets by reforming the
11 process, to bring about more openness and
12 transparency than at any time in the state's
13 history. Both houses passed their own
14 budgets, their budget plans or resolutions.
15 And the press knew where we stood, everyone
16 knew -- the public in particular -- what
17 budget alternatives we were supporting and
18 opposing. We submitted them to joint
19 conference committees; we all participated in
20 that. We had discussions, and we worked out a
21 resolution in public.
22 Despite so much talk of reform and
23 change, the only change we have seen is that
24 an effective public budget process was
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1 ignored. This budget was negotiated in
2 secret, crafted behind closed doors, subject
3 to press blackouts and special rules to keep
4 it under wraps as long as possible.
5 Democrat Governor Paterson,
6 Democrat Speaker Silver, and Democrat Majority
7 Leader Senator Smith succeeded -- and all of
8 you, by allowing it to happen -- in turning
9 back the clock to the days of three men in a
10 room. And the result is a disastrous budget
11 that taxes too much, spends too much, and will
12 cost thousands and thousands of jobs.
13 This lack of transparency is
14 unprecedented in all the years that I've had
15 the privilege to serve in this chamber. You
16 can talk all you want about having "One
17 New York," but the fact is that half of the
18 people in this state that we represent have
19 been shut out of the budget process.
20 Well, today the people that we
21 represent are going to have their say, and
22 they will have their say tomorrow when we
23 continue to debate bills. And let me tell
24 you, they're going to express their feelings
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1 and their reaction to the budget you're going
2 to pass in the days to come.
3 The members of the Senate
4 Republican conference have a lot of questions
5 we want to ask today and tomorrow, because
6 we've only had a short time to review this
7 budget. As the only conference that publicly
8 proposed its own budget -- some plan,
9 something -- we want to offer alternatives to
10 this budget. I expect we'll have a lively,
11 informative debate and a respectful one.
12 Passing the budget is the single
13 most important action the Legislature
14 undertakes, and it has the largest impact on
15 every person, every family, and every business
16 in this state. Governor Paterson, Speaker
17 Silver, and Senator Smith said this budget
18 couldn't be discussed in public because we are
19 in crisis. That's shocking, and that's
20 disgraceful.
21 Let me say that so many families
22 across this state are facing a real crisis.
23 They are worried about their jobs and their
24 future, they are struggling to make ends meet,
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1 people are worried about losing their homes or
2 their businesses. They deserve to know how
3 much of their hard-earned money the state is
4 going to take away and how it will be spent.
5 And they deserve that in advance of passage of
6 this legislation.
7 Today and tomorrow, Senate
8 Republicans are going to speak up for the
9 New Yorkers who don't want to pay higher
10 taxes. We're going to fight for homeowners
11 who want help paying their property taxes.
12 And quite frankly, they want their STAR rebate
13 checks returned, because they depend upon it.
14 We are going to try to stop measures, and we
15 urge any one of you, we just need one of you
16 of courage and conviction to join us in
17 stopping this disastrous plan.
18 The budget process has been
19 conducted solely by three Democrats from
20 New York City. People in Buffalo, Syracuse,
21 Watertown, and Mineola, they didn't have their
22 voices heard, because everything was done
23 behind closed doors. They deserve a full,
24 open and public debate, not a rubber stamp on
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1 a bad budget that increases taxes, takes away
2 property tax relief, and causes more jobs to
3 be lost.
4 So thank you, Mr. President, for
5 the courtesy of allowing me to speak as we
6 enter this budget process. Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
9 you, Senator Skelos.
10 Senator Young, why do you rise?
11 SENATOR YOUNG: I rise because I
12 have an amendment.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
14 Senator Young, your amendment is here at the
15 desk. Without objection, the reading of the
16 amendment is waived and you may speak on the
17 amendment.
18 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you,
19 Mr. President.
20 Agriculture is the top industry in
21 New York State, and it pumps billions of
22 dollars into our economy. Despite this fact,
23 the budget bill that is being considered today
24 has severe and deep cuts to our agricultural
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1 programs that we've had in New York State, and
2 it will cripple many of these sectors that are
3 so important to our economy.
4 Today we have an amendment that
5 restores funding to these vital programs,
6 things like the Quality Milk Program at
7 Cornell, the Center for Dairy Excellence, the
8 Farm Viability Institute, the New York State
9 Apple Association, the wine and grape
10 marketing, the phytophthora research that
11 benefits vegetable growers in Senator
12 Stachowski's district. And the list goes on.
13 We even restore the Tractor Rollover Program
14 that saves lives that unfortunately is being
15 cut in this budget bill.
16 So we are investing $10 million in
17 our farmers, into our agriculture, and into
18 our economy here in New York State. That's
19 the first part of the amendment.
20 The second part of the amendment
21 helps our dairy farmers that are in a severe
22 crisis right now. Milk prices are at an
23 historic low. In fact, they're 40 percent
24 lower than they were at this time last year.
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1 The recessionary economy has slowed demand for
2 dairy foods both at home and abroad, causing a
3 surplus that further undercuts dairy prices.
4 Now, all of this is going on while
5 there are spikes in costs to farmers for
6 things like feed, fuel, fertilizer, energy
7 costs. And this is a perfect storm that is
8 going to drive many of our dairy farmers out
9 of business this year. I would hazard a guess
10 that hundreds if not thousands of our dairy
11 farms will go under. And that will have a
12 severe economic impact to New York State.
13 Right now New York is the nation's
14 third largest dairy state, generating over
15 $2 billion in milk sales annually. When you
16 factor in the fact that these farms also
17 contribute to small businesses and rural life
18 in upstate New York -- places like feed
19 dealers, equipment suppliers, other small
20 businesses -- the loss will be huge to
21 New York State.
22 Now, in 2006 we had a similar
23 crisis. And at that time the Senate stepped
24 up, took action, got results, and did
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1 something to save our dairy farmers. It was
2 the Dairy Assistance Program that invested
3 $30 million directly into our dairy farms.
4 This amendment today reconstitutes the Dairy
5 Assistance Program so that we can save these
6 family farms, and many of the people in this
7 room voted to support that.
8 Now, it's interesting to note that
9 on the federal level there have been deep cuts
10 proposed to agriculture. But Congressman Eric
11 Massa says that the funds have been restored.
12 Last night President Obama told Congressman
13 Massa he would drop the provision in his
14 budget proposal that would have cut assistance
15 for farms that generate more than $500,000 in
16 gross sales revenue.
17 I bring that up because if the
18 federal government can fight to save our
19 family farms, then we should be doing the same
20 thing in this chamber.
21 I would urge all of you to do the
22 right thing and vote yes on this amendment.
23 It's important to our economic future in
24 New York State.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 0Thank
2 you, Senator Young.
3 Senator Libous.
4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Could I request
5 a roll call on the amendment, please. A fast
6 roll call, I mean.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Before
8 we do that, Senator Libous, are there any
9 other Senators who wish to be heard on the
10 amendment?
11 Seeing none, the question is on the
12 nonsponsor motion to amend Calendar Number
13 134. Those Senators voting in support of the
14 nonsponsor amendment please raise your hands.
15 The Secretary will announce the
16 results.
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 30. Nays,
18 32.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
20 motion fails.
21 Senator Stachowski, on the bill.
22 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: On the bill,
23 on the economic development portion of this
24 bill. I thought I'd take the time to explain
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1 what we have done in this part of the budget
2 bill.
3 In this bill we dealt with Empire
4 Zones by rejecting the Governor's immediate
5 changes and limited the lookback to 1 to 1 and
6 a certain number of shirt-changers for any
7 kind of decertification. We also changed the
8 sunset date to allow for an earlier imposition
9 of the new replacement program that is
10 currently being negotiated between the
11 Business Council, economic development people
12 from across the state, the New York City
13 partnership, and the Governor's people.
14 Hopefully they'll come up with a program that
15 isn't limited to location.
16 But as told to many of us during
17 the course of this budget process, after the
18 Governor's budget came out on Empire Zones and
19 the changes, that certain companies -- for
20 example, biotechs -- will never hit 20 to 1.
21 Manufacturing companies will never hit 20 to
22 1. And certain other successful new companies
23 will never hit 20 to 1.
24 However, they are successful, they
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1 create jobs, and they add to our state. So
2 the object of this group is to put together a
3 new program that will recognizes different
4 industries and different categories need
5 different kind of qualifications. And that's
6 the end goal of this negotiation, and that's
7 why the date has been moved up to expire
8 sooner.
9 Also in this part, the economic
10 development portion of this package, we have
11 restorations in research and technology. The
12 Centers for Advanced Technology have all been
13 restored. The Centers for Advanced Technology
14 have all been funded. That's a very important
15 part, because they play a great role in
16 research and development and working with
17 small companies throughout the state in
18 various areas.
19 Also important in this is there's
20 been a restoration for the Focus Centers,
21 $2 million. The Legislature also maintains
22 $1.2 million of operating funds for the six
23 Centers of Excellence across the state that
24 play a major role.
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1 Also in this section, the
2 Legislature denies the combining of DED,
3 NYSTAR, and ESDC and puts back the budgets for
4 NYSTAR and DED with a 10 percent reduction in
5 their budget, of 10.5 percent, to match up
6 with other departments that have been cut.
7 We think these things are
8 important, we think they play a major role in
9 making us still able to grow economic
10 development. At a time when we're trying to
11 cut a deficit, fill a deficit, we can't cut
12 our way to prosperity. So we think that these
13 and other parts of this package will help the
14 economy to grow, continue to attract
15 businesses, and continue to help the companies
16 that have taken advantage of these programs
17 and grow jobs and retain jobs in New York to
18 help make this state better.
19 Thank you, Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
21 you, Senator Stachowski.
22 Just one moment. To set the
23 transcript straight, the vote on Senator
24 Young's nonsponsor amendment was 30 ayes,
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1 31 nays.
2 Senator Aubertine, on the bill.
3 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Thank you,
4 Mr. President. On the bill.
5 As chairman of the Senate
6 Agriculture Committee, and one of the only if
7 not the only active farmer in the New York
8 State Legislature, I do feel compelled to
9 speak on the bill but from the point not only
10 of a farmer but that of a legislator as well.
11 We proposed to increase the funding
12 in many different programs from the initial
13 Governor's recommendation. We've increased
14 funding on many programs, to the extent of
15 over 43 percent of what the Governor initially
16 proposed: over $7 million of restorations, or
17 nearly $7 million of restorations.
18 I've reached out to my colleagues
19 on both sides of the aisle, to my counterpart,
20 the ranker on the Ag Committee. In fact, I've
21 got a response, a written response, items that
22 were identified by my counterpart. Johne's
23 disease, the Farm Family Assistance, Migrant
24 Worker Program, all completely restored. In
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1 fact, the Migrant Worker Program was restored
2 beyond the request of my ranker colleague.
3 But it's more than just that. I
4 mean, we have to live in the reality of the
5 budget and the monies that are available to
6 us.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
8 Senator Young, why do you rise?
9 SENATOR YOUNG: Mr. President,
10 will Senator Aubertine yield for a question?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
12 Senator Aubertine, do you yield?
13 SENATOR AUBERTINE: As soon as
14 I'm finished, I most certainly will.
15 What's been proposed is a
16 tremendous increase over what the Governor has
17 proposed. In fact, it's a 40 percent increase
18 over last year's budget in agriculture, a
19 75 percent increase over what the Governor
20 proposed.
21 There are things that we can,
22 should, and need to do for agriculture in this
23 state in every sector. But there are things
24 that we can, should, and need to do for dairy
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1 in this time of dairy crisis that we haven't
2 done yet. We need to support a resolution, we
3 need to support legislation that would deal
4 with the Class 3 debacle for monies that are
5 owed to dairy farmers in this state on Class 3
6 production. These are not taxpayer dollars;
7 this is money that's owed to our agricultural
8 community not only in New York State but all
9 across the United States.
10 There are things we can do here
11 such as dealing with the casine issue and
12 helping to make sure that the market is not
13 eroded, as it's been eroded for decades in
14 this state for dairy. There are things we can
15 do here to deal with bloc voting, which
16 prevent dairy co-ops from usurping the rights
17 of dairy farmers and taking away their right
18 to vote on issues that concern them, their
19 families, and their paychecks.
20 There are things we can do here in
21 this state that other states here in the
22 Northeast have already done and stand ready to
23 work with us -- on hauling -- and yet we
24 haven't done it. But we need to. Vermont,
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1 New Hampshire, and other Northeast states have
2 already done it, and we need to work with
3 them.
4 So I'd be happy to work with
5 anybody, anybody in this chamber and the other
6 house, to make sure that these issues are
7 dealt with the way they should be, properly,
8 and make sure that the taxpayer dollars are
9 spent wisely in the process.
10 There are things that we can do and
11 should do and things that we shouldn't do.
12 One of the issues that we have with the last
13 proposal that's been put before us, that some
14 in this chamber have supported, in their zeal
15 to put it together, they've misstated -- in
16 paragraph 4, I'm reading Section 19H of the
17 UDC law. I couldn't find Section 19H in the
18 UDC law. I think it was meant to be
19 Section 16H. But even at that, Section 16H
20 expired in 2007. And the reason I know that
21 is because I was one of the people in the
22 people's house, in the Assembly, that helped
23 craft this.
24 So again, I am more than willing to
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1 work with anyone on any issue concerning
2 agriculture in this state.
3 Thank you, Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
5 you, Senator Aubertine. Do you at this time
6 yield to Senator Young's request?
7 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes.
8 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you,
9 Mr. President.
10 Senator Aubertine, I listened very
11 intently to what you said, and you mentioned a
12 written letter that I did send to you giving
13 you our priorities for the agriculture budget.
14 And you talked about how you restored much of
15 my request.
16 So I just have a question. Was the
17 Quality Milk Program under your budget
18 restored to $1.3 million? Which is last
19 year's level, by the way.
20 SENATOR AUBERTINE: I'm looking
21 for it here. No.
22 SENATOR YOUNG: Okay. Was the
23 Future Farmers of America --
24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
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1 Senator Young, are you asking Senator
2 Aubertine to continue to yield?
3 SENATOR YOUNG: Yes. Would
4 Senator Aubertine still yield for a question?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
6 Senator Aubertine, do you yield?
7 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
9 Senator yields.
10 SENATOR YOUNG: Was the Future
11 Farmers of America, were they restored to
12 $230,500?
13 SENATOR AUBERTINE: No.
14 SENATOR YOUNG: Will the Senator
15 still yield?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
17 Senator Aubertine, do you yield?
18 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
20 Senator yields.
21 SENATOR YOUNG: Was the Onion
22 Research Program restored to $100,000?
23 SENATOR AUBERTINE: No.
24 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you,
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1 Senator Aubertine.
2 Will the Senator still yield?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
4 Senator Aubertine, do you yield?
5 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
7 Senator yields.
8 SENATOR YOUNG: Was the Cornell
9 Phytophthora Research Program restored to
10 $200,000?
11 SENATOR AUBERTINE: No.
12 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you.
13 Will the Senator still yield?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
15 Senator Aubertine, do you yield?
16 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
18 Senator yields.
19 SENATOR YOUNG: Was the New York
20 State Apple Growers Association restored to
21 $750,000?
22 SENATOR AUBERTINE: No.
23 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you.
24 Will the Senator still yield?
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
2 Senator Aubertine, do you yield?
3 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
5 Senator yields.
6 SENATOR YOUNG: Was the Turf
7 Grass Environmental Stewardship Fund restored
8 to $175,000?
9 SENATOR AUBERTINE: No.
10 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you.
11 Will the Senator still yield?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
13 Senator Aubertine, do you yield?
14 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
16 Senator yields.
17 SENATOR YOUNG: Tractor Rollover
18 Protection Program, was that restored to
19 $100,000?
20 SENATOR AUBERTINE: No.
21 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you.
22 Will the Senator still yield?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
24 Senator Aubertine, do you continue to yield?
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1 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
3 Senator yields.
4 SENATOR YOUNG: I'll just ask two
5 more. Plum Pox Virus Eradication Program, was
6 that restored to $500,000?
7 SENATOR AUBERTINE: No.
8 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you.
9 So overall, the restorations -- if
10 the Senator would still yield. One more
11 question.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
13 Senator Aubertine, do you continue to yield?
14 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
16 Senator yields.
17 SENATOR YOUNG: So overall, the
18 restorations that the Senate Republicans asked
19 for for agriculture were $31,169,000. Was
20 that what you restored in your budget?
21 SENATOR AUBERTINE: No.
22 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you.
23 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Would Senator
24 Young yield for a question?
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
2 Senator Young, do you yield?
3 SENATOR YOUNG: Sure.
4 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Well, I guess
5 my primary question, Senator, would be how
6 would you propose to pay for this?
7 SENATOR YOUNG: That is a very
8 easy question, Senator Aubertine, and I'm glad
9 that you asked it. There's a $1 billion
10 federal stimulus slush fund that the Senate
11 Democrats have included in your budget
12 proposal. And I would propose that there's no
13 greater stimulus in this state than
14 agriculture. And I believe that we should
15 take $31 million of that $1 billion slush fund
16 and apply it to agriculture. One billion
17 dollar slush fund.
18 SENATOR AUBERTINE: For clarity,
19 could you help me better understand this --
20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
21 Senator Aubertine, are you asking Senator
22 Young to continue to yield?
23 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes.
24 Senator, would you continue to yield?
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1 SENATOR YOUNG: Yes, I will.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
3 Senator yields.
4 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Senator, for
5 clarity, could you help me better understand
6 where this slush fund is?
7 SENATOR YOUNG: Certainly,
8 Senator Aubertine. I can repeat what I just
9 told you. In your budget proposal there is a
10 $1 billion undesignated slush fund of federal
11 stimulus money that they have not -- that you
12 have not allocated toward any specific
13 purpose. We should be investing in
14 agriculture programs in this state, and there
15 it is, the $31 million out of a $1 billion
16 slush fund.
17 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Would the
18 Senator continue to yield?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
20 Senator Young, do you continue to yield?
21 SENATOR YOUNG: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
23 Senator yields.
24 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Senator, are
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1 you sure that agriculture is eligible for that
2 money?
3 SENATOR YOUNG: I'm sorry,
4 Senator, I didn't hear you.
5 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Senator, are
6 you sure that agriculture is eligible for that
7 money?
8 SENATOR YOUNG: Yes, Senator
9 Aubertine, I am sure, because it's a
10 discretionary fund. And I can tell you
11 exactly where that fund is. It's under the
12 Public Protection Budget bill, on page 319.
13 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Well,
14 Senator -- would the Senator continue to
15 yield?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
17 Senator Young, do you yield?
18 SENATOR YOUNG: Certainly.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
20 Senator yields.
21 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Senator, I
22 guess in working with you on this -- I
23 certainly look forward to that. And I hope
24 that in the future meetings that we have set
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1 up -- I hope you're able to make, unlike the
2 last one. And I certainly would look forward
3 to working with you on this in the cleanup
4 language of this budget.
5 SENATOR YOUNG: I look forward to
6 doing the right thing for agriculture in the
7 state. Thank you, Senator.
8 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Thank you.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
10 you, Senator.
11 Senator Saland.
12 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President,
13 would Senator Kruger yield, please.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
15 Senator Kruger, do you yield?
16 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes,
17 Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
19 Senator yields.
20 SENATOR SALAND: Senator Kruger,
21 in your opening remarks you raised a number of
22 points, one of which was the fact that there
23 was some $6 billion in cuts -- excuse me, I'll
24 be very happy to yield to Senator DeFrancisco
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1 if Senator DeFrancisco would like.
2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No, go
3 ahead.
4 SENATOR SALAND: There was some
5 $6 billion in cuts contained in this budget.
6 First, could you started off by telling me
7 what is your base from which you make those
8 cuts?
9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
10 you, Mr. President, I don't fully understand
11 Senator Saland's question.
12 SENATOR SALAND: Well, if you're
13 making cuts, you're starting off at a certain
14 level. Are you using last year's budget as
15 your base, are you using the Governor's budget
16 as your base? What is your base for arriving
17 at those $6 billion in cuts?
18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
19 you, Mr. President, the cuts were from last
20 year's budget.
21 SENATOR SALAND: And if Senator
22 Kruger would continue to yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
24 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
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1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR SALAND: And how much was
5 the gross amount of last year's budget,
6 Senator Kruger?
7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Last year's
8 budget was approximately $121.3 billion.
9 SENATOR SALAND: $121.3 billion?
10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes.
11 SENATOR SALAND: If Senator
12 Kruger will continue to yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
14 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
15 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
17 Senator yields.
18 SENATOR SALAND: And what is the
19 amount of the budget that you are proposing
20 here currently today?
21 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: The budget
22 as proposed is approximately $131.9 billion.
23 SENATOR SALAND: So if last
24 year's budget was 121 -- and I'll take the
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1 liberty of rounding up -- and this year's
2 budget is 139, there's a difference of
3 approximately $18 billion?
4 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
5 you, Mr. President, in fact that's not the
6 case. We increased -- through you,
7 Mr. President, All Funds spending was
8 increased by about $10 billion.
9 SENATOR SALAND: Well, help me
10 with the math, please. If Senator Kruger will
11 yield.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
13 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
15 Mr. President.
16 SENATOR SALAND: If you can help
17 me with the math -- I'm sorry, 132. I
18 apologize. So it's a difference of
19 approximately $12 billion -- $11 billion, I
20 take that back.
21 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: About.
22 Approximately, yes.
23 SENATOR SALAND: And from that we
24 subtract 6 billion that represent cuts that
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1 were taken from last year's base?
2 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
3 you, Mr. President, 6 billion is General Fund
4 cuts. While yet at the same time, as I
5 pointed out, our budget a relatively flat
6 under General Funds.
7 SENATOR SALAND: Senator Kruger,
8 if you'll continue to yield.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
10 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
11 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
12 Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
14 Senator yields.
15 SENATOR SALAND: And excuse me
16 for rounding off numbers. This year's budget
17 is $132 billion, All Funds. Last year's
18 budget -- and stop me if I'm wrong -- last
19 year's budget was 121, from which you cut some
20 $6 billion. You announced to us here today
21 that there are $6 billion in cuts, and you
22 said the base for that was last year's budget.
23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
24 you, Mr. President. General Fund versus
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1 All Funds. And again, through you,
2 Mr. President, taking into account federal
3 stimulus money.
4 SENATOR SALAND: I haven't even
5 approached the subject of federal stimulus
6 monies. I'm not interested so much in the
7 source of our revenues; I'm interested in the
8 nature of our spending.
9 Senator Kruger, so we have
10 approximately $11 billion more in spending,
11 All Funds, in this year's budget. We cut
12 $6 billion from last year's spending. So
13 basically our base from last year would be
14 something in the nature of $115 billion. If
15 you wipe out the cuts, you're now talking in
16 terms of 132. So there's $17 billion in
17 spending in this year's budget that was not in
18 last year's budget; is that correct?
19 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
20 you, Mr. President. First of all, Senator
21 Saland, I don't know exactly what your
22 question is. But I do know that we're
23 comparing apples and oranges. We're talking
24 about All Funds, and then we're talking about
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1 General Funds at the same time.
2 So through you, Mr. President, for
3 the purposes of clarity, can we define exactly
4 what we're talking about?
5 SENATOR SALAND: I think, through
6 you, Mr. President, all of my comments have
7 been to the All Funds budget. I know there
8 are not $132 billion in the General Fund. I
9 know there wasn't $121 billion in last year's
10 General Fund. I know that there are federal
11 dollars, and they're off -- what we used to
12 call off-budget dollars that helped comprise
13 that All Funds budget. So we're only talking
14 in terms of All Funds for our purposes now.
15 We know we have 132 billion in
16 All Funds, up 11 billion from last year. And
17 in your remarks, again, you said we cut
18 6 billion from last year. So how have we
19 spent the difference between 115 billion that
20 we spent last year and 132 billion that we're
21 spending this year? That's a $17 billion
22 swing.
23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
24 you, Mr. President. The All Funds does not
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1 include, once again, the general stimulus
2 funds. So consequently, our spending is
3 virtually flat on General Funds.
4 SENATOR SALAND: Through you,
5 Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
7 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
10 Senator yields.
11 SENATOR SALAND: I think we're
12 talking past each other. I'm not asking you
13 to tell me the differences between the General
14 Fund and All Funds, I'm asking if you can
15 identify -- we both agree, I think, that we
16 have gone from last year's $115 billion All
17 Funds budget, after you've taken 6 billion in
18 cuts, and we've gone to $132 billion All Funds
19 budget this year. That includes the General
20 Fund, it includes offline items, and it
21 includes federal money.
22 Can you, as the Finance chair, tell
23 me, where's the 17 billion? How are we
24 spending it? I'm not asking why are we
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1 spending it, I'm asking how are we spending
2 it.
3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Again,
4 through you, Mr. President, I want to just
5 once again reiterate that we're comparing two
6 different piles of money and we're comparing
7 two different funding sources. Our spending
8 is flat. The dollars speak for themselves.
9 And it's included in the budget, and it is the
10 way it is.
11 SENATOR SALAND: On the bill.
12 Thank you. Thank you, Senator
13 Kruger.
14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you,
15 Senator.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
17 Senator Saland, on the bill.
18 SENATOR SALAND: Quite honestly,
19 sir, I am totally baffled that the Finance
20 chair doesn't quite understand that All Funds
21 are all funds, All Funds comprise a number of
22 different funds, and cannot tell me how we
23 arrived at $17 billion in additional spending.
24 I'm not asking to identify which
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1 pot it came from. But you must be able to
2 paint in broad strokes. You must be able to
3 tell me how you got from the 115 after you, by
4 your own lips, told me you cut 6 to the 132.
5 I mean, give me a break. You talk
6 about drivel. There's absolutely nothing
7 there. The only thing historic about this
8 moment, if I can refer back to something that
9 Senator Kruger had to say, is depending upon
10 your vantage point, it represents high or low
11 for chutzpah. It's either the most
12 extraordinarily bold, in-your-face grab, or it
13 is the cesspool of all budgets.
14 The fact of the matter is when we
15 talk about a reform path -- and again, I'm
16 specifically picking words that the Finance
17 chair used. If this emulates reform or this
18 is what we think of as reform, then we truly,
19 truly are seeing the gulag at its best.
20 Because there's no reform here.
21 As Senator Skelos said in his
22 opening remarks, this is the first opportunity
23 we've had to discuss the budget. And when you
24 try and discuss the budget, there's no answers
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1 for basic questions. The most basic question
2 you could possibly ask can't be answered.
3 Reform? Pick up a newspaper, any
4 newspaper, from one tip of the state to
5 another, and try and tell them this represents
6 reform. Look at the editorial comment.
7 There was some reference to a
8 precipice, we're at a precipice. Yes, we
9 truly are at a precipice. We have taken,
10 apparently, the stimulus money, built up
11 spending to a level that is totally
12 unsustainable, and we are going to drop off
13 that precipice once we exhaust that stimulus
14 money and don't have the resources to sustain
15 the spending.
16 When jobs flee, when people flee, I
17 don't know -- I understand the politics of it,
18 I don't understand the logic of it. We're
19 going to run out of sweeps. We're going to
20 run out of businesses. We're going to run out
21 of taxpayers. And the last member of the
22 Working Families Party can close the door on
23 the way out.
24 Thank you.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
2 you, Senator Saland.
3 Senator DeFrancisco.
4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, I'd
5 request that Senator Kruger answer a few
6 questions.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
8 Senator Kruger, do you yield?
9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
11 Senator yields.
12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
13 you, Mr. President. Prior to answering
14 Senator DeFrancesco's questions, I just want
15 the record to reflect that I forgive Senator
16 Saland for calling our chamber a gulag.
17 Senator DeFrancesco.
18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Before I
19 ask the question, I will forgive Senator
20 Kruger for calling me "Senator DeFrancesco"
21 for the 55th time.
22 (Laughter.)
23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Touche.
24 Touche. I'll just call you Senator, okay?
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1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would
2 Senator Kruger yield to a question?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
4 Senator Kruger, do you yield to Senator
5 DeFrancisco?
6 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
7 Mr. President.
8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator
9 Kruger, you mentioned in your opening remarks
10 how you reached out in a bipartisan way, as
11 did your other members, to us in the hopes of
12 working out a bipartisan budget.
13 And I acknowledge that on
14 March 19th of this year, after many -- many,
15 many weeks after those many budget hearings we
16 sat through, you did send me a letter
17 indicating that you wanted my concepts or my
18 ideas about the budget.
19 And do you acknowledge, Senator
20 Kruger, that I did respond to you the very
21 following day and hand-delivered you a letter
22 on March 20th giving you some suggestions as
23 far as how the budget should look?
24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes,
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1 Mr. President. Yes, through you.
2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And I'm
3 going to just ask you generally if you would
4 respond to another question.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
6 Senator Kruger, do you yield?
7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
8 Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
10 Senator yields.
11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: That letter
12 included, that I sent, really a summary of the
13 Senate Republican budget proposal that we
14 unveiled several weeks earlier, including
15 cutting 1 percent from agency contracts,
16 consolidation of state agencies, a 5 percent
17 cut in state agency nonpersonnel service,
18 collecting cigarette tax, enhanced Medicaid
19 fraud acceleration, fraud coordination,
20 eliminate Executive unspent lump sum balances,
21 and the like. And I won't read all of them.
22 Did this budget include any of the
23 suggestions that the Republican conference
24 made with respect to the budget that should be
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1 in place this year?
2 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes,
3 through you, Mr. President. Senator -- I'll
4 call you Senator now. Senator, without
5 actually going point by point, item for item
6 within the budget, it would be difficult for
7 me to make those comparisons.
8 I will point out that we had
9 significant dialogue during the hearing
10 process. You and I spoke on many occasions.
11 We were sympathetic to many of the advocates
12 that came in front of us. And in many
13 instances the issues that were raised by the
14 advocates, although they might have not been
15 incorporated in the Executive Budget, reflect
16 the restorations that were made by this house
17 in the final budget, the agreed-upon budget.
18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would
19 Senator Kruger continue to yield?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
21 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
23 Mr. President.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
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1 Senator yields.
2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator
3 Kruger, many of the proposals that -- we're
4 going to give you another chance here, because
5 many of the proposals that we made we're going
6 to have amendments to the budget during the
7 course of this process.
8 But my next question is, did you
9 respond in any way to my letter that I sent
10 back to you on the 20th, some 11 days ago, to
11 continue the dialogue in a bipartisan fashion
12 that you indicated that you wanted to have in
13 your opening remarks?
14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
15 you, Mr. President. The leadership on the
16 Democratic side of this chamber has and
17 continues and will continue to have dialogue
18 and to reach out to our colleagues on the
19 other side of the aisle.
20 And whether that was condensed to
21 writing, whether it was verbal, the facts are
22 the facts, that meetings were held,
23 discussions took place, and this budget,
24 although, as I pointed out in my original
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1 remarks, it is not reflective of everything
2 that we would have liked to see in terms of a
3 shared process, nevertheless is a process that
4 went forward in a shared environment.
5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would
6 Senator Kruger continue to yield?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
8 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, for
10 one more question, Mr. President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
12 Senator yields.
13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, I
14 have several more questions. I don't know
15 which one to choose from. Are we in a hurry
16 tonight, is my next question. Can we get
17 these questions answered by the chairman of
18 Finance in an open, public budget meeting?
19 That's my next question.
20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
21 you, Mr. President, I believe that I've
22 attempted and will continue to answer your
23 questions to the best of my ability.
24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Thank you.
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1 Would Senator Kruger yield to another
2 question?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
4 Senator Kruger, do you yield?
5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes. Yes,
6 I do.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
8 Senator yields.
9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator
10 Kruger, you said the facts are the facts.
11 Isn't it a fact that you never responded to me
12 in writing, verbally or in any other way, in
13 Sanskrit or any other method of communication,
14 to my letter of March 20th of 2009?
15 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
16 you, Mr. President. To the best of my
17 recollection, certainly not in writing. But I
18 can't say that we didn't speak.
19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, I
20 can. On the bill. I can.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
22 Senator DeFrancisco, on the bill.
23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, let
24 me -- I have a couple of more questions.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
2 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
5 Senator yields.
6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Now,
7 Senator Kruger, we were provided on our desks
8 and were provided earlier this morning with a
9 New York State Senate Finance Committee Budget
10 Fact Sheets, that I think you have one of
11 these on your desk. Everyone had one on his
12 desk. And on it is Senator Malcolm Smith --
13 I'd ask him, but he's not in the chambers.
14 But you're on this book as the Senate Finance
15 chair; correct?
16 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: That's what
17 it says.
18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Okay. And
19 my question is this. If you'd turn to page 2
20 in this book concerning the 2009-2010
21 financial plan summary -- and I'll give you an
22 opportunity. Do you see that? Do you have
23 page 2?
24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
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1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Now,
2 Senator Kruger, you answered several questions
3 of Senator Saland, including the difference
4 between last year budget and this year's
5 budget. This year's budget being about
6 132 billion, with a B, and last year's budget
7 being about 121 billion.
8 Is that what you have on this sheet
9 of paper here, page 2?
10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: All right.
12 And that's how you determined how much
13 additional all-purpose spending was done this
14 year; fair enough? Is that correct?
15 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes.
16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Now, would
17 Senator Kruger yield to another question?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
19 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
21 Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
23 Senator yields.
24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Isn't it
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1 true, Senator Kruger, that the $121 billion
2 that you've got listed there is the amount in
3 the Executive Budget? And in fact, last
4 year's budget, according to the Budget Office,
5 was $119.6 billion. So about 2 billion less
6 than you've got represented here.
7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
8 you, Mr. President, the Executive Budget says
9 121.3. Yes, it does say that.
10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would he
11 yield to another question?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
13 Senator Kruger, will you yield?
14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I
15 will, Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
17 Senator yields.
18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I
19 understand this says the Executive Budget is
20 $121 billion. Isn't it true that that number
21 is not what was spent in last year's budget,
22 this is the budget that our Executive proposed
23 for this year? And that last year's budget
24 actually spent around $119 billion?
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1 And I've got the budget -- I've got
2 something from the DOB if you want to take a
3 look at it.
4 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
5 you, Mr. President, yes, it does say
6 $121.3 billion, as proposed in the Executive
7 Budget. Yes, it does.
8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: All right.
9 Would the Senator yield again?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
11 Senator, do you yield?
12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I
13 will, Mr. President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
15 Senator yields.
16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Isn't it
17 true that actually the increase in what we
18 spent from last year to what we're spending
19 this year isn't what the Executive Budget
20 started out with being proposed this year, but
21 it's what we actually spent last year, which
22 was $119.6 billion? Isn't that true?
23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
24 you, Mr. President, I don't have that number
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1 in front of me. But yes, Senator, I guess it
2 is if that's what you say it is.
3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: All right.
4 Well, I'm only the ranker. And that's what
5 I -- I'm looking from the Department of Budget
6 here, the DOB, that they say $119.7 billion.
7 One more question on this topic.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
9 Senator Kruger, do you yield?
10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
11 Mr. President.
12 And for the purposes of clarity, we
13 do not have last year's numbers on the sheet,
14 page 2, as the Senator indicated. We do have
15 this year's, which I once again point out is
16 121.3. The numbers are so huge they're
17 staggering.
18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator
19 Kruger, if you accept my point that
20 $119 billion was actually spent last year and
21 what we're spending is $132 billion this year,
22 isn't that a $13 billion increase in spending,
23 actual increase in spending? As opposed to
24 what you just said was around $11 billion.
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1 Because you're using the proposed Executive
2 Budget for your base.
3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
4 you, Mr. President. Senator, yes, we are.
5 Because if we want to look at the totality of
6 it, we have to also look at $860 million was
7 an increase due to a Medicaid caseload, and
8 $700 million was due to local share of the
9 Medicaid that passes through All Funds.
10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would the
11 Senator continue to yield.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
13 Senator Kruger, do you yield?
14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
15 Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
17 Senator yields.
18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: So you
19 agree with me that the actual increase in
20 spending is 13 billion over last year, as
21 opposed to 11 billion?
22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yeah, in
23 fact -- and through you, Mr. President. Yes,
24 in fact, that -- those numbers may bear out.
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1 But I do want to point out that we didn't do
2 last year's budget.
3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, on
4 the bill. I'll ask other questions as we go
5 along.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
7 Senator DeFrancisco, on the bill.
8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you,
9 Mr. President.
10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator
11 Kruger had asked Senator Young how are we
12 going to pay for these few millions of dollars
13 of agricultural programs. We just figured out
14 that the Senate Majority, who did this budget
15 in what was supposed to be a bipartisan way,
16 just missed $2 billion in an analysis of how
17 much we spent this year over last year.
18 That $2 billion on page 2, if
19 everyone wants to read along, would make a
20 difference. They just said the percentage
21 change, an increase in what we're spending, is
22 8.65 percent. It's really closer to
23 10 percent of increased spending.
24 And it would seem to me that if
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1 there -- we'll get into the stimulus money at
2 a later questioning area. But it would seem
3 to me that if you don't even know how much
4 your increasing spending -- I imagine if I
5 asked a series of questions -- oh, actually
6 Senator Saland asked them. What are you
7 spending it for, how do you determine what is
8 the priorities of spending, whether it's
9 agriculture or whether it's something like --
10 and I don't know even what it is, the -- let's
11 see. Grants to community-based organizations
12 for asthma studies. Or specific lined-out
13 community-based health centers. Or health
14 promotion initiatives, lump sum, about
15 $4.5 million.
16 I mean, how do you make the
17 determination as to what the priorities are if
18 you don't even know how much you're spending
19 and what you're responding it on?
20 So I guess what I'm saying is that
21 this is just a microcosm of some of the
22 problems that could have been alleviated had
23 there been a process where this could have
24 been hashed out among all of us like we've
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1 done in the past so these types of things
2 would not occur.
3 And once again, Senator Kruger will
4 have another opportunity to consider the
5 series of proposed changes in their budget or
6 considerations for their budget during the
7 course of our amendments as we go through the
8 process, because that's what we're really
9 going to present as we continue on with this
10 debate.
11 Thank you.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
13 you, Senator DeFrancisco.
14 Senator Fuschillo.
15 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you
16 very much, Mr. President. Will the sponsor
17 yield for a few questions with respect to
18 transportation issues?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
20 Senator Kruger, do you yield?
21 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I
22 would, Mr. President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
24 Senator yields.
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1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: But perhaps
2 I should give an overview of the
3 transportation portion of the budget first, if
4 that's okay.
5 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: That would be
6 fine, sure.
7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you,
8 Mr. President.
9 If we move to the transportation
10 portion of the budget, we have added
11 $3.7 billion, of which $3.6 billion is
12 representative from stimulus money. That
13 money is for highways and bridges and capital
14 infrastructure. Additionally, $20 million has
15 been added to transit aid, which does reflect
16 a 2 percent cut. $112 million was added for
17 local roads and bridges, and $100 million
18 fully restored multimodal portion of the
19 budget.
20 Now I would be prepared to take a
21 question.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
23 Senator Fuschillo.
24 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you
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1 very much, Senator Kruger. I appreciate that.
2 There's about 200 pages of
3 Department of Transportation funding here.
4 What's the total amount?
5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: I believe
6 it's $10.7 billion, if my memory serves me
7 correctly.
8 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you.
9 Would the Senator yield for another
10 question?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
12 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
14 Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
16 Senator yields.
17 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you
18 very much, Mr. President.
19 Senator Kruger, of that amount,
20 what is debt, what is bonded out, what is cash
21 of that 10 -- you had said $10 billion?
22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Right.
23 Just one moment, Mr. President.
24 Senator, in answer to your
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1 question, the dollars that we're talking about
2 is basically appropriation authority and not
3 necessarily reflective of actual cash. It's
4 in the debt service bill, which we will be
5 doing a little later.
6 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. Will
7 Senator Kruger please yield for a question?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
9 Senator, do you continue to yield?
10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
12 Senator yields.
13 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,
14 Senator.
15 So of the 10 billion, what is being
16 bonded out?
17 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Your
18 indulgence, Mr. President. One moment while
19 we put together our . . .
20 Through you, Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Yes,
22 Senator Kruger.
23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Without
24 exact numbers -- which I certainly, as we go
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1 forward with the debate, I'll be able to
2 supply. But it's approximately $7 billion.
3 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,
4 Senator.
5 Mr. President, will Senator Kruger
6 continue to yield?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
8 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes,
10 Mr. President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
12 Senator yields.
13 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,
14 Mr. President. Thank you, Senator Kruger.
15 So we're adding $7 billion of debt
16 to the State of New York?
17 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
18 you, Mr. President. No, in fact, not all of
19 that is bonded.
20 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. Well,
21 Mr. President, will Senator Kruger please
22 yield?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
24 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
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1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
3 Senator yields.
4 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,
5 Mr. President. Senator Kruger, thank you.
6 I had asked the question of the
7 $10 billion that you had mentioned is in this
8 200 pages of the bill that's on our desk. Am
9 I correct that you came back to me with an
10 answer that you said $7 billion will be bonded
11 out, out of the 10 billion? And then I had a
12 question for you, is that what we're adding to
13 the state debt, another $7 billion?
14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
15 you, Mr. President. Firstly, it's not in one
16 year, it's spread out over a number of years.
17 And not all of it is reflected in that
18 $7 billion number.
19 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
20 President, will the Senator continue to yield?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
22 Senator, do you continue to yield?
23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
24 Mr. President.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
2 Senator yields.
3 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Senator
4 Kruger, debt is debt. Whether it's today,
5 tomorrow, next year or five years from now,
6 it's still debt.
7 I just want to -- before we move on
8 to a few other questions, I'll ask the
9 question again. You had said that -- through
10 your counsel -- that these 200 pages add up to
11 $10 billion in this budget bill that we're
12 being considered right now. And I had asked
13 the question how much of the 10 billion is
14 debt. And you had said $7 billion, but you
15 said not all of that, because it's the
16 outyears.
17 So I'll just simplify my question.
18 Of the $10 billion, how much is that of debt
19 to the State of New York?
20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
21 you, Mr. President. Again, Senator, when
22 we're talking about the $7 billion worth of
23 debt --
24 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Debt.
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1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: -- capital,
2 I'm sorry, this is something that's spread out
3 over a number of years. It's not something
4 that we're totally expending in 2009-2010.
5 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. So,
6 Mr. President, so debt is debt. So it's
7 $7 billion. I'll take that as an answer.
8 Would Senator Kruger continue to
9 yield for a question?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
11 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
13 Mr. President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
15 Senator yields.
16 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,
17 Mr. President. Thank you, Senator.
18 You had mentioned in your opening
19 statement when you gave the chambers a brief
20 on the transportation package that
21 $112 million is for local roads. Is that
22 correct?
23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Roads and
24 bridges, yes.
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1 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Would the
2 Senator continue to yield?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
4 Senator, will you yield?
5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
6 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Is that
7 $112 million broken out into regions in the
8 budget? And if so, could you tell us what
9 regions are getting what?
10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
11 you, Mr. President. The package that we're
12 talking about is approximately $361 or
13 $362 million overall. $112 million is what
14 was restoration from the Executive, cuts from
15 the Executive.
16 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
17 President, through you, would Senator Kruger
18 continue to yield?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
20 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
21 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
23 Senator yields.
24 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,
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1 Mr. President. Thank you, Senator Kruger.
2 No, I understand that, and that's
3 how I started my question off, with what you
4 stated when you briefed the chamber, is that
5 $112 million is for roads and bridges.
6 My question, and I'll ask you
7 again, is that $112 million broken down in the
8 budget that you're asking us to vote on by
9 regions throughout the state? And if so, what
10 is each region receiving of the $112 million
11 for roads, highways, and bridges?
12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
13 you, Mr. President. Senator, those runs are
14 being calculated by DOT, and they will be
15 available.
16 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay.
17 Mr. President, through you, would Senator
18 Kruger continue to yield?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
20 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
21 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
22 Mr. President.
23 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you.
24 Thank you, Senator Kruger.
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1 So in the document we're looking at
2 now, that $112 million is not broken down into
3 regions; is that correct?
4 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
5 you, Mr. President. Once again, DOT, under
6 their own rules and regulations and law, will
7 be breaking this down by region and it will be
8 part of those runs.
9 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. So
10 I'll take that as an answer that it's not.
11 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: That's your
12 prerogative.
13 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
14 President, through you, would Senator Kruger
15 continue to yield?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
17 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
20 Senator yields.
21 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you
22 very much, Mr. President. Senator Kruger,
23 thank you.
24 You had mentioned in your briefing
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1 to this chamber that $100 million of that pot
2 is for multimodal projects. Is that being
3 broken down and lined out in the document
4 before us in regions throughout the State of
5 New York?
6 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Okay.
7 Through you, Mr. President. Firstly, that's
8 not part of the $112 million. That is the
9 100 million restored out of the multimodal.
10 And that would be part of a grant formula that
11 would be submitted by the localities to DOT.
12 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you
13 very much. Would the Senator continue to
14 yield?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
16 Senator, do you yield?
17 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
18 Mr. President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
20 Senator yields.
21 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Senator,
22 could you talk about what happened to CHIPS
23 funding in this budget?
24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes.
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1 Through you, Mr. President. The CHIPS, I
2 believe, Senator, you're talking about the
3 $112 million for local roads and bridges?
4 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: No.
5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes,
6 that -- through you, Mr. President.
7 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: If that's
8 your answer. Is that your answer?
9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: That's my
10 answer.
11 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay.
12 Through you, Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
14 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
15 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
17 Senator yields.
18 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: I'm not
19 talking about the $112 million, I'm talking
20 about over $300 million in CHIPS funding that
21 I believe was restored. My question to you
22 is, how much of that is bonding indebtedness
23 to the State of New York?
24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
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1 you, Mr. President, $3.6 million.
2 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
3 President, will the Senator continue to yield?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
5 Senator, do you yield?
6 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
8 Senator yields.
9 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Senator,
10 $3.6 million of $363 million is what's bonded
11 out? Is that correct? Is that your answer,
12 1 percent?
13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
14 you, Mr. President. It's all bonded. My
15 mistake. 3.6 represents cash out.
16 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you
17 very much. I appreciate that.
18 Let's talk about the MTA, Senator
19 Kruger. Does this package include any new
20 funding to the MTA?
21 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
22 you, Mr. President. No, it does not.
23 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay.
24 Mr. President, would the Senator continue to
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1 yield?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
3 Senator, do you yield?
4 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
5 Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
7 Senator yields.
8 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you
9 very much.
10 Does this package on our desks
11 contain an MTA bailout program that's been
12 talked about so much?
13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
14 you, Mr. President. No, it does not.
15 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. Would
16 the Senator continue to yield? And thank you.
17 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
19 Senator yields.
20 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,
21 Senator Kruger.
22 Let's talk about the Dedicated
23 Highway, Bridge and Trust Fund collected in
24 this budget. What are the dollar amounts that
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1 would be collected?
2 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: For
3 clarification, through you, Mr. President.
4 Collected or disbursed?
5 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Both. You
6 can take part one. Collected. Collected.
7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Back to the
8 chorus. Collected? Through you, Mr.
9 President. Again, approximate numbers.
10 Approximate collected, $5 billion. Disbursed,
11 $5 billion. Cash in, cash out.
12 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you
13 very much, Senator.
14 Would the Senator continue to
15 yield, Mr. President?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
17 Senator, do you continue to yield?
18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
19 Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
21 Senator yields.
22 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,
23 Senator Kruger. Of that amount, how much will
24 actually be used for construction purposes?
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1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
2 you, Mr. President, approximately
3 $1.8 billion.
4 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you
5 very much, Senator.
6 Mr. President, would the Senator
7 continue to yield?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
9 Senator, do you yield?
10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
11 Mr. President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
13 Senator yields.
14 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Senator
15 Kruger, thank you. Final question. Are there
16 any tax credits for any aviation programs or
17 initiatives throughout the state in this
18 package here?
19 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
20 you, Mr. President. No, not in this bill,
21 Senator.
22 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Final
23 question, Mr. President. Will he continue to
24 yield?
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
2 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Cross your
4 heart?
5 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Are you
6 asking me a question?
7 (Laughter.)
8 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Senator
9 Kruger, last night Senator Smith, your
10 Majority Leader, stated that this budget will
11 create --
12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
14 Senator Libous, why do you rise?
15 SENATOR LIBOUS: I apologize, but
16 for some reason I cannot hear Senator
17 Fuschillo. If Senator Fuschillo could speak a
18 little louder, please.
19 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: I'll be happy
20 to, Senator Libous.
21 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
22 Mr. President.
23 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Senator
24 Kruger, last night I was watching a program
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1 where Senator Smith, your Majority Leader, was
2 on TV and talked about how this budget will
3 create 50,000 new construction jobs in the
4 transportation field.
5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Excuse me.
6 Can you repeat that, Senator? I'm sorry.
7 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Sure.
8 Majority Leader Smith stated last night that
9 50,000 new transportation jobs will be
10 created. Can you tell me how we will find
11 50,000 new transportation jobs?
12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
13 you, Mr. President. Firstly, I did not see
14 that TV program, so I can't comment.
15 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. Thank
16 you very much, Senator Krueger.
17 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you,
18 Senator.
19 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: On the bill.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
21 Senator Fuschillo, on the bill.
22 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: It concerns
23 me greatly that there are so many individuals
24 out in my region on Long Island, and other
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1 regions throughout this state, that work on
2 our highways, roads and bridges that are out
3 of work and have been out of work for a long
4 time because the Governor essentially has
5 frozen all projections.
6 And I appreciate the response from
7 the chair of the Finance Committee, but it's a
8 great concern to me that this budget does not
9 spell out where the money for roads and
10 bridges is going and for multimodal projects.
11 And it looks like it's just a pot of money
12 that's out there at the whim of this Governor
13 to present to where he thinks it is deemed
14 fit.
15 Now, on Long Island the Governor
16 has talked about filling -- bringing down
17 $154 million in transportation projects. But
18 last year, we still have $154 million in
19 projects that haven't been funded that are
20 shovel-ready and ready to go and put people
21 back to work.
22 This year on Long Island, according
23 to the DOT regional director, there's another
24 $250 and $300 million in projects that are
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1 necessary to maintain the infrastructure, and
2 they're not being addressed in this budget.
3 They're not being addressed in these 200 pages
4 of a $10 billion document that's going to cost
5 the state more than $7 billion in
6 indebtedness. Whether it's today or tomorrow,
7 a year from now or two years from now, debt is
8 debt.
9 So we're voting on a package that's
10 going to increase the state's debt by
11 $7 billion out of $10 billion, and the other
12 part of the money is just being passed through
13 from the federal government. So the state is
14 not putting up anything. We're saying to our
15 children and grandchildren and everybody in
16 this room and the 19 million people in the
17 State of New York: Sure, we're going to give
18 you money for roads and bridges, but you're
19 going to be paying for it for the rest of your
20 life because we're not putting any cash in
21 this budget, it's all bonded out to the tune
22 of $7 billion.
23 Thank you very much, Mr. President.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
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1 you, Senator Fuschillo.
2 Senator Winner.
3 SENATOR WINNER: Thank you,
4 Mr. President.
5 You know, the title of this bill
6 that we're dealing with is Transportation,
7 Economic Development, and Environmental
8 Conservation. And I'd like to speak a little
9 bit on this bill with regard to the economic
10 development or lack thereof that really is
11 contained in this year's budget.
12 I heard Senator Stachowski attempt
13 to gloss over the devastation that is being
14 done in this proposal as it relates to the
15 Empire Zone program. And I just would like to
16 follow up by indicating that, you know, not
17 too long ago in this state we listened to a
18 campaign in 2006, fall, for the Governor's
19 race, where the upstate economy was the
20 clarion call of then-Candidate Spitzer. And
21 certainly that clarion call was one of the
22 reasons why a lot of people in upstate
23 New York rallied around his candidacy and
24 suggested that we have economic development
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1 and upstate efforts improved to a significant
2 degree.
3 And, you know, we listened for a
4 whole year with an upstate development
5 revitalization fund proposal. We listened to
6 all kinds of calls for assisting the upstate
7 economy and mandate relief and other types of
8 efforts -- Power for Jobs, these other
9 incentives that we were trying to offer here
10 to try to get what was characterized as a
11 moribund upstate economy moving again.
12 And we thought that we were going
13 to make some progress, only to hit the wall,
14 not only with Governor Spitzer not being able
15 to deliver on many of those promises but in
16 fact now, with this budget and with the
17 proposals that Governor Paterson and the
18 Majority has put together, we have a
19 non-economic development package here that is
20 obviously going wreak havoc with any types of
21 efforts to revitalize our upstate economy as
22 well as the economy of the whole State of
23 New York.
24 You know, in the first State of the
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1 State address from the Governor we heard that,
2 and I quote: "Most importantly, we must lower
3 the cost of doing business in New York.
4 Property taxes are too high. We should cap
5 them. State mandates are too burdensome. We
6 should relief them. Local government is too
7 costly. We should help it become more
8 efficient. And we must also reaffirm to our
9 commitment to specific programs and projects
10 targeted at revitalizing upstate."
11 Now, those were nice words. And
12 when his budget proposal came out, he actually
13 made some specific proposals. He specifically
14 included a new $50 million New York Growth,
15 Achievement and Investment Strategy, a GAINS
16 fund; a new research and development tax
17 credit; and an expansion of the existing
18 research and development tax credit.
19 You know, then all of a sudden, on
20 March 29, when this agreement was announced
21 and the legislative leaders or the three
22 New York City Democrats came out of the room
23 and announced that they had a budget, what was
24 in there with regard to those items? Not a
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1 single one. Not only wasn't a single one of
2 them in there, but many of the proposals that
3 he had advanced with regard to his so-called
4 reform of the Empire Zones were in fact in
5 there. And those reforms are going to do
6 nothing other than devastate the ability to
7 try to be competitive in New York State for
8 economic development.
9 Let's go back for a minute. Why do
10 we have an Empire Zone program? Why did we
11 have one in the early '80s when we developed
12 this in order to create an economic
13 development fund, a zones program? We did so
14 because New York State was uncompetitive when
15 it came to attracting business and industry.
16 And why were we uncompetitive? And
17 what are the major factors that we have to
18 deal with when it comes to economic
19 development and to try to develop new
20 businesses in this state? We have -- the
21 major costs are what? Health insurance,
22 personal income tax costs, energy costs, real
23 property tax payments? Those are the major
24 costs that businesses experience in trying to
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1 determine where they're going to go.
2 And what does this state do? This
3 state has the highest energy costs practically
4 in the country, in the continental United
5 States. And what are we going to do in this
6 budget? We're going to increase them even
7 more.
8 We're now going to have a personal
9 income tax increase that will be
10 noncompetitive, particularly along our border
11 states. We have health insurance costs that
12 now we're going to increase by taxing the
13 premiums and the so-called covered lives
14 assessments. And on and on and on.
15 Our real property tax levies are
16 uncompetitive, as we all know, the highest
17 state and local combined tax burden in the
18 country.
19 So that's why we have to have a
20 competitive program, incentive program, with
21 which to try to entice whoever is foolish
22 enough to consider New York as a site to do
23 business, we have to entice them with the
24 ability to mitigate against those costs. And
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1 that's why we had an Empire Zone program which
2 was designed to deal with those elements of
3 the cost of doing business in New York State.
4 It's unfortunate we have to have an
5 Empire Zone program. But we certainly have to
6 if we're going to be at all competitive and
7 attract anybody in here.
8 So what did we do this year? We
9 did the so-called reform of the Empire Zone
10 program. The only economic development tool
11 that we have upstate to try to mitigate
12 against those high costs, what did we do? We
13 have effectively gutted it and put it out of
14 business. We have expedited the sunset date
15 by one year. We have minimized the real
16 property benefit that it will produce, one of
17 the major noncompetitive items we have. We
18 have eliminated the ability of new Empire Zone
19 designees to be able to take full benefit of
20 the sales-tax exemptions, another
21 noncompetitive item.
22 And we have certainly, now, with
23 the 20-to-1 ratio proposal, eliminated almost
24 all of the Empire Zone-eligible businesses
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1 that had previously received benefits in most
2 of the upstate Empire Zone boundaries.
3 So for anybody to get on this floor
4 and suggest that these are reasonable
5 reforms -- these are measures that are
6 designed to eliminate the Empire Zone program
7 and eliminate its effectiveness and make our
8 state back in the dark ages of
9 noncompetitiveness, as we were in the past and
10 we were in the early '80s.
11 This is a disaster, this proposal.
12 And it is the most anti-upstate New York
13 proposal that I have seen in my 31 years of
14 elected office in New York State.
15 And I think that this measure
16 should certainly go back to the drawing board.
17 And in a later bill, where there is specific
18 language with regard to the Empire Zone
19 program, we will be offering an amendment to
20 so do so.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
22 you, Senator Winner.
23 Senator Nozzolio.
24 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you,
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1 Mr. President. Mr. President, will Senator
2 Kruger yield?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
4 Senator Kruger, do you yield?
5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
6 Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
8 Senator yields.
9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you very
10 much, Senator Kruger, for yielding.
11 My question gets back to Senator
12 Fuschillo's question to you about Senator
13 Malcolm Smith's comments last evening. I had
14 the particular program TiVo'd so I could play
15 it back. And I had to play it back two or
16 three times because I could not believe what I
17 heard. Senator Smith indicated that the
18 transportation portion of this budget would
19 create 50,000 jobs.
20 Now, Senator Kruger, I respect
21 certainly the fact that you said you did not
22 see the program and you deferred comment on
23 that program. But let me ask you this through
24 the chair. Would Senator Kruger advise this
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1 house how many jobs will be created by the
2 transportation budget?
3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
4 you, Mr. President, let me try to expand on
5 that question if that's okay with you,
6 Senator.
7 For every million dollars that we
8 put into transit and ground passenger
9 transportation, we create, by industry
10 standards, approximately 31 jobs in all
11 industries throughout the state. Likewise,
12 for every million dollars that we put into
13 construction, 15 jobs are created in
14 industries throughout the state. Thus, the
15 $1.4 billion in mass transit stimulus money
16 would create approximately 44,000 new jobs --
17 or, rather, 44,000 jobs in all the industrial
18 sectors throughout the state.
19 The $1.1 billion in stimulus money
20 for roads and bridges, which are entirely for
21 construction -- which we don't have the means,
22 by the way, of breaking down what would be for
23 engineering, concrete, steel, and the other
24 components -- would create over 16,000 jobs in
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1 all industries.
2 Thus, we have a total job creation
3 of over 60,000 jobs for the $2.5 billion in
4 stimulus money that is guaranteed by this
5 state upon the passage of this budget.
6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you,
7 Senator Kruger.
8 Mr. President, on the bill.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
10 Senator Nozzolio, on the bill.
11 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you.
12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I believe part
13 of the equation missing from the discussion of
14 transportation jobs should be an analysis of
15 how the moving van companies of this state
16 will benefit by the budget that we're passing
17 over the next 48 hours. Because there will be
18 more people moving out of this state as a
19 result of the higher taxes, of the higher
20 spending, of the lack of economic development,
21 of the trashing of the Empire Zone program.
22 Senator Winner indicated his
23 concerns for economic development,
24 particularly for upstate manufacturers. The
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1 largest number of manufacturing jobs to come
2 into New York State over the last two and a
3 half decades, over the last 25 years came to
4 the Central Finger Lakes, in Geneva, New York,
5 in the late 1990s, in large part because of
6 the Empire Zone program as it existed, as it
7 exists prior to the trashing of the program
8 that this budget will create.
9 That company is Guardian Glass, and
10 they're located in Geneva. But their
11 headquarters is in Michigan. And they are now
12 looking at whether or not to expand their
13 plant and invest $17 million into that plant
14 that's in the Geneva Empire Zone. They are
15 going to be thinking two and three times
16 because of this budget that is before us this
17 evening.
18 There's another factory that's on
19 the border of my district in Cayuga County
20 that's in Senator Valesky's district, owned by
21 Owens Illinois, an Ohio company. Again, a
22 glass manufacturer that is considering whether
23 or not to invest an additional $25 million
24 into new technology and to retrofit some of
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1 their manufacturing facility in Cayuga County.
2 As a result of this Empire Zone trashing that
3 is now before us, they may make a decision to
4 the contrary and not invest in New York State.
5 And there are countless other
6 projects across this state that are in
7 jeopardy because of what is put forward and
8 what we are voting on today.
9 Senator Young had brought up the
10 issue of agriculture, and I'd like to present
11 some of my remarks on that portion of the
12 debate this evening. And it's a question of
13 priority. Senator DeFrancisco mentioned other
14 elements of the state budget that were
15 increased as a result of the proposal before
16 us today.
17 The question of priority is this.
18 There is one number-one industry in New York
19 State. Only one can be number one. And most
20 New Yorkers don't know that agriculture is our
21 number-one industry. Most people outside of
22 New York are surprised to learn that
23 agriculture is the number-one job producer in
24 New York. We have developed the science to
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1 develop the agriculture, the value added that
2 puts us ahead of not only agriculture
3 enterprise in other states but all the
4 agricultural enterprise in the world.
5 America no longer makes the best or
6 most competitive automobiles. We no longer
7 compete as successfully on the world and
8 global marketplace as we used to with
9 manufacturing and other products. But our
10 agricultural commodities are still extremely
11 competitive. And yet what happened in this
12 budget is that the priority for the number-one
13 job-producing industry has basically been cast
14 aside. We're spending $5 million in this
15 budget for community-based organizations for
16 eviction-prevention services. Now, eviction
17 prevention means we can send out a note today:
18 You won't be evicted if you pay your rent.
19 That's great eviction-prevention services.
20 Frankly, though, that $5 million
21 that goes to community-based organizations --
22 and where have we heard those words before --
23 those community-based organizations may want
24 to focus on the farmers of this state because
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1 our farmers are going to be evicted and
2 foreclosed because of the crisis that they're
3 now being confronted with.
4 The Majority could have easily
5 taken part of that eviction community-based
6 services and support agriculture. Or, as
7 Senator Young said, that $1 billion from the
8 federal government to say that we want to keep
9 our New York State agriculture more
10 competitive than any other agriculture in the
11 world.
12 I find it ironic, and sadly so,
13 when Senator Kruger said the days of wine and
14 roses in New York State are over. Well, the
15 days of growing roses is challenged. And the
16 days of wine in New York State I guess are
17 still there, but we're going to be taxing wine
18 at a higher rate, almost a 30 percent increase
19 in the tax of wine, because of this
20 legislation, this bill that we're going to be
21 having before us.
22 So the answer is, from the other
23 side of the aisle -- an answer that we really
24 didn't know about until fewer than 36 hours
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1 ago -- that the answer on their side of the
2 aisle, more taxes. The answer on the other
3 side of the aisle is spending in areas that
4 don't produce jobs but, rather, take jobs
5 away, that don't support our agriculture, the
6 number-one industry of our state --
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Excuse
8 me, Senator Nozzolio. Excuse me, Senator
9 Nozzolio.
10 Senator Krueger, why do you rise?
11 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Will
12 Senator Nozzolio please yield for a question?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
14 Senator Nozzolio, do you yield?
15 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
16 I've been waiting to say this for so long. I
17 would be happy to yield to Senator Krueger
18 when I'm finished with my remarks.
19 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President
21 and my colleagues, agriculture is the
22 number-one industry, it's the number-one
23 industry because we support its science, we
24 support the fact that it is a job developer
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1 because in fact we compete on a global
2 marketplace.
3 And whether it's apples that are
4 grown in Wayne County or Madison County,
5 whether it's the protection and marketing of
6 our beef producers' products, whether it's
7 science developed at the Cornell College of
8 Agriculture or the Experiment Station in
9 Geneva, it needs to be supported as a
10 priority. And the priority is missing. It's
11 absent by what's being presented to us today.
12 In spite of the fact that Senator
13 DeFrancisco pointed out there is a horrendous
14 growth in spending, way over $10 billion of
15 additional spending over last year. And that
16 that spending, in effect, seems to be missing
17 when it comes to the number-one industry of
18 our state.
19 Thank you, Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
21 you, Senator Nozzolio.
22 Do you now yield to Senator Liz
23 Krueger?
24 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you,
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1 Mr. President. Yes, I do.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
3 Senator yields.
4 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
5 Senator Nozzolio.
6 My understanding was we were
7 discussing the TEDE bill, and you were
8 discussing agriculture. So where in the bill
9 is the $5 million for eviction-prevention
10 services?
11 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator
12 Krueger, where is it?
13 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, sir.
14 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: As we
15 understand it, it is under some select
16 discretionary American Recovery and
17 Reinvestment Act spending. That I'm not
18 certain exactly what section of the budget
19 that is in, but it is one of the enumerated
20 projects listed in that portion of the budget.
21 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Senator
22 Nozzolio, it's possible that in fact we're
23 talking about the ELFA bill, where there is in
24 fact social services funding for eviction
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1 prevention. And it's possible that we're
2 talking about the federal stimulus money which
3 has some, quote, homelessness prevention
4 monies that gets passed through the state.
5 Would you agree that might be where
6 it is?
7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: There
8 certainly are a lot of possibilities, Senator
9 Krueger.
10 My issue, though, is not where that
11 money is or even the criteria for its
12 particular spending. My issue is a question
13 of priority. And of all this money coming to
14 the State of New York from the federal
15 government, it seems as though the stimulation
16 of our number-one industry, which produces the
17 most amount of jobs in our state, certainly
18 should not be absent.
19 And that whether our Congressional
20 delegation should have gotten a clearer signal
21 that we wanted more support for agriculture,
22 or whether this budget, which was debated by
23 your conference in the most egregious of
24 ways -- there was absolutely no transparency
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1 in any of the discussions -- there were no
2 discussions. There was no debate. There was
3 no presentation of positions until the latest
4 of times.
5 Because of that, we at this 12th
6 hour are being displayed here a budget that
7 shows misplaced priorities. It's up to you,
8 the proponents of this budget, to tell us why
9 you decided to place the priorities away from
10 the number-one industry of our state.
11 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
12 Mr. President, if through you the
13 Senator would continue to yield.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
15 Senator Nozzolio, do you continue to yield?
16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you,
17 Mr. President. I'd be happy to yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
19 Senator yields.
20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
21 Again, the reason I rose was my
22 belief that in fact there was an incorrect
23 assumption on the floor that somehow
24 agriculture, environment or transportation
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1 money was, quote unquote, being taken for
2 eviction prevention, because I don't believe
3 we are taking any money of this bill for
4 eviction prevention.
5 But my question to you, Senator, is
6 do you really believe that in a horrendous
7 economic crisis where we are seeing people
8 lose their homes daily, where we are seeing
9 families at risk of having their children
10 taken away from them because they are evicted
11 from their homes, and where we have, at least
12 in my district, a disproportionately large
13 number of elderly people who are at risk of
14 losing that their homes, that it is actually a
15 bad use of $5 million of government money --
16 not even within the bill we're discussing
17 tonight -- being used to help assure that
18 families with children and elderly people can
19 stay in their homes?
20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
21 through you. That it would be wonderful if
22 Senator Krueger would explain to this body
23 where that money is coming from, what that
24 money is going to be used for, where is that
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1 money going to be spent, how much of that
2 money is going to be spent in Yates County,
3 Seneca County, Schuyler County, Cayuga County,
4 Wayne County, even Monroe County. How much of
5 those funds are going to be going north of the
6 Tappan Zee Bridge? How much of those funds
7 are going to be distributed to Buffalo and
8 Albany and the upstate region?
9 If Senator Krueger pro-offers this
10 as an expenditure that should be made instead
11 of agricultural support, then Senator Krueger
12 is obligated to delineate the exact source and
13 distribution of those funds.
14 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr.
15 President, may I answer the question? I
16 believe I'm asked a question. So I'm not sure
17 if I should ask the Senator to yield or I
18 should be happy to answer his question.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Well,
20 he actually was answering your question. So
21 if you would like him to continue to yield,
22 that would be appropriate.
23 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Senator,
24 will you yield so I may answer your question?
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
2 Senator Nozzolio, do you continue to yield?
3 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I'll be happy
4 to yield.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
6 Senator yields.
7 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you
8 very much, Mr. President.
9 Yes, I would be delighted to talk
10 about the monies. Primarily there's two pots
11 of funds -- again, not in this bill, so it's
12 not in an either/or. We are not taking money
13 from agriculture or the environment or
14 transportation to shift to social services.
15 There is federal money for
16 homelessness prevention, approximately
17 $142 million, in the stimulus package. There
18 is a formula. Each and every county of the
19 State of New York will get a share of that
20 money, primarily through their social services
21 departments, although they may contract it
22 out, again, to not-for-profit organizations.
23 And in fact through the TANF,
24 Temporary Assistance to Needy Families funds,
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1 both the emergency and contingency funds
2 through federal stimulus and ongoing TANF
3 money that's a federal mandated program, we
4 have funded for a significant number of years
5 approximately $5 to $10 million in
6 eviction-prevention contracts that also is
7 distributed. Again, some of them are
8 specifically to the City of New York, and
9 other monies are distributed through county
10 social services.
11 I would hazard to guess there is no
12 county in the state that doesn't provide some
13 kind of eviction-prevention services through
14 some kind of government monies, because what
15 they have learned is it is much more
16 cost-effective to prevent a family from losing
17 their home and ending up homeless, it is much
18 more cost-effective to prevent a senior
19 citizen from losing their home. And in fact,
20 too often senior citizens may end up in
21 hospitals or nursing homes if they lose their
22 homes.
23 I can speak at length, if you like,
24 about the eviction-prevention services in
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1 New York City because in fact, before the year
2 2000, when I left my job to run for the
3 New York State Senate, I actually had a
4 contract to run eviction-prevention services
5 in the City of New York under contract with
6 the government.
7 And I can tell you that we saw
8 thousands of families per year who had
9 children -- under our contract, it was serving
10 families with children -- who were at risk of
11 losing their home and losing their children to
12 the child welfare system and ending up in the
13 shelter system. And we had at that time --
14 and again, it's quite a few years ago -- but a
15 minimum of a 20-to-1 ratio of cost savings to
16 government by preventing people from losing
17 their homes.
18 Obviously in your district there
19 would be different issues with eviction
20 prevention than perhaps in Senator Lanza's
21 district or in some other Senator's district.
22 But unfortunately in every county of New York
23 State, and every Senate district, there are
24 some number of people who find themselves at
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1 risk of eviction for some reason. And if they
2 lose that home, pretty much guarantee it will
3 cost the government far more than it spends.
4 And again, I'd be happy to debate
5 the issue further when we get to the ELFA
6 budget, where in fact those dollars and cents
7 are. But again, I just for the record want to
8 make clear there is no proposal to take money
9 out of the TEDE bill to use it for social
10 services.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
12 Senator Krueger, did you have a question for
13 Senator Nozzolio?
14 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: No, my
15 question was to agree to answer his question.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
17 Senator Nozzolio, you still have the floor.
18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you,
19 Mr. President. Continuing on the bill.
20 Thank you, Senator Krueger, for
21 your elaboration of those services. Frankly,
22 Senator Krueger's expertise in eviction
23 prevention is going to be sorely needed in the
24 upstate region because of those who haven't
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1 found the appropriate moving van to move out
2 of New York State as a result of higher taxes,
3 greater regulation, and lack of support for
4 agriculture.
5 There are going to be farmers who
6 are still here who will be evicted --
7 foreclosed may be a more appropriate
8 comment -- because there is not sufficient
9 support for them in a massive federal stimulus
10 package that in effect the other side of the
11 aisle --
12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Excuse
13 me, Senator Nozzolio. Excuse me for one just
14 one moment.
15 Senator Stachowski, why do you
16 rise?
17 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I was
18 wondering if Senator Nozzolio would yield for
19 a question.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
21 Senator Nozzolio, do you yield?
22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I'd be happy
23 to yield to Senator Stachowski.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
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1 Senator yields.
2 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator
3 Nozzolio, I listened with great interest as
4 you talked about a couple of manufacturing
5 companies that will now be hurt because of
6 changes made in this budget to the Empire
7 Zones. And my question would be is the
8 changes made would now make the goal they have
9 to reach 1 to 1. The average manufacturing
10 company hits 7 to 1, 6 to 1, 8 to 1, 14 to 1,
11 but they don't hit 20 to 1 that the Governor
12 had in his budget on a lookback.
13 And so that that change is made to
14 try to make it better for manufacturing
15 companies. And the change on the date moves
16 it up a year or actually maybe a few more
17 months than that, it might be 18 months. So
18 that a new program that recognizes that
19 manufacturing companies have certain
20 difficulties hitting numbers like 20 to 1 and
21 that other industries like biotechs have
22 trouble hitting 20 to 1 no matter how
23 successful they are.
24 So the reason for that move-up of
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1 the date, rather than to decimate the program,
2 was to put in a new program that's currently
3 being worked on by all the economic
4 development groups from across the state, from
5 Buffalo to Rochester to Syracuse to New York
6 City to Albany. They're all involved, along
7 with the Business Council, working with the
8 Governor's people, trying to come together
9 with a multipronged system that doesn't just
10 base it on location and on a 20-to-1 lookback,
11 which the Governor's proposal did. And this
12 proposal in this budget doesn't.
13 So the reality is that your
14 manufacturing company should have no trouble
15 meeting 1 to 1. The question is, are you
16 aware of that, that the alternative was to let
17 the Governor's plan stand with a 20-to-1
18 lookback?
19 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: In response,
20 through you, Mr. President, that Senator
21 Stachowski, who himself was an athlete well
22 into the college years, knows very well that
23 to play a game, that if the rules are changed
24 in the middle of the game it creates havoc for
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1 the teams that are on the field.
2 Imagine a company that decided to
3 invest multimillions of dollars in New York
4 State. And then to have the zone program
5 dramatically altered in the middle of their
6 operations here creates a great amount of
7 confusion and does not inspire investment into
8 New York State.
9 And that is the problem here,
10 Senator, that the lack of continuity and
11 consistency creates confusion. And that
12 confusion tells the corporate headquarters,
13 whether they be in Michigan or Ohio or
14 someplace else, that New York is not a
15 reliable state to be able to invest in the
16 future.
17 And yes, this may be a more
18 favorable result than what the Governor or
19 others had originally proposed, but it still
20 creates a great deal of uncertainty. There's
21 uncertainty, as Senator Winner said, in the
22 program itself, which in terms of its
23 existence is -- in terms of its length of
24 duration is changed by this legislation, as
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1 well as the amount of ability to have
2 certainty in recertification.
3 A company that may be in a zone
4 today, already invested hundreds of millions
5 of dollars, will now have in terms of
6 reinvestment, in growing new jobs in New York
7 State, in making additional commitment to the
8 state, will have question about whether the
9 state is going to be consistent in their
10 commitment back.
11 So that's the problem that this
12 legislation has failed to address.
13 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Would the
14 Senator continue to yield?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
16 Senator Nozzolio, do you continue to yield?
17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Be happy to
18 yield to the Senator.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
20 Senator yields.
21 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator, I
22 understand the point that the program is going
23 to change slightly. But the proposal as it
24 stood in the budget was for a 20-to-1 lookback
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1 by the Governor's new proposal, which all of
2 us in this room know was not going to work.
3 That all the biotechs that were in Empire
4 Zones were going to be put out, that all the
5 manufacturing, just about, in the zones would
6 be put out, that a lot of the significant
7 projects or projects of significance, as they
8 refer to them, may very well have been put
9 out, because the proposal as done by the
10 administration was a 20-to-1 lookback, based
11 on the new numbers to qualify for Empire
12 Zones.
13 Now, granted, some people that are
14 almost finished came in with no lookback, no
15 need to create jobs, just bring jobs. But the
16 reality is to make this continue and to make
17 this successful, and in dealing with all the
18 businesspeople, from the Business Council to
19 all the locals, the recognition was that the
20 program is going to expire anyways, we should
21 be putting together a new program -- quite
22 well, one might be just for distressed areas,
23 which this was originally supposed to be. And
24 then expanded to other areas, and then added
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1 projects of significance, where you could take
2 the benefits from one area and move them to
3 another area that had no Empire Zone or any
4 depressed areas in it.
5 But the reality is that this
6 proposal is livable. The shirt-changer part
7 even has a due process part in it where they
8 can show that they really aren't a
9 shirt-changer, they really have a development
10 of jobs and they earned their benefits. And
11 actually, every company has in the Empire Zone
12 has to go to Taxation every year with their
13 papers in order to get their benefits renewed
14 year to year.
15 So the reality, at least from where
16 I'm standing, is that on a temporary basis
17 this is a much-improved situation than what
18 the Governor proposed.
19 Secondly, it's not much different
20 from what currently exists. The reason for
21 the move-up in the date is to get the better
22 programs in place sooner than to just have
23 this drag out and the possibility that next
24 year we'll be here trying to solve the same
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1 situation if the administration decides they
2 want a 20-to-1 clawback.
3 We would have preferred to have no
4 lookback at all, but in the negotiation we
5 agreed that this was the best situation for
6 the companies involved, considering that we
7 know that everybody who was watching from the
8 day the Governor put his budget out.
9 Everybody from outside the state was getting
10 ready to send all our businesses that are in
11 those areas literature on why shouldn't they
12 move to another state.
13 So with all that in mind, and
14 knowing that your manufacturing companies are
15 doing well and they're hopefully going to
16 expand, as you pointed out in your speeches,
17 wouldn't you think that this is a better idea
18 than just leave the Governor's plan stand?
19 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
20 a lengthy question.
21 But let me share, in responding to
22 Senator Stachowski, that no, I don't believe a
23 company that has benefits taken away, has a
24 program that may be terminated in a very short
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1 period of time, that in this economy, as that
2 company and the companies I mentioned and
3 thousands of other companies across this state
4 have to make investment decisions today to
5 affect their operations three to five years
6 out, the sign is clear in New York State:
7 Don't do business here. We can't give you any
8 type of certainty. We can't give you any
9 regularity.
10 So what if you'd like to invest 10,
11 20, 30 million dollars into expanding your
12 plant? Tell your board of directors that you
13 may get certified, even if you're in a zone
14 today, or you may not get certified if you're
15 in a zone today. Tell your board of directors
16 that yes, you may have an Empire Zone program
17 in 18 months, or then again, you may not have
18 an Empire Zone program in New York State in
19 18 months.
20 Those board of directors are going
21 to say to the executive who's bringing this
22 before them: In good conscience, we could not
23 use our investors' money in New York State.
24 We don't believe that New York State is
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1 reliable. We don't believe New York State is
2 going to live by its commitments from one day
3 to the next.
4 We had before a tremendous upheaval
5 in discussion on the zone program. And this
6 measure may be an improvement, may be a small
7 improvement on what was discussed earlier.
8 But the fact remains, Senator Stachowski and
9 my colleagues, that the uncertainty created by
10 this Legislature will drive investment to
11 other states.
12 And I believe that's the concern we
13 have. That's the concern that Senator Winner
14 mentioned in his remarks earlier on this
15 issue. And it's a concern that is real. It's
16 genuine. Particularly in these challenging
17 economic times, if there's an unreliable
18 program in New York State, let's go to the
19 Keystone Program in Pennsylvania, which is a
20 much more reliable program. Or let's go to
21 Ohio, that has a program that's reliable,
22 where we can make an investment and understand
23 that there will be certainty in that
24 investment.
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1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Will the
2 Senator continue to yield?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
4 Senator Nozzolio, do you continue to yield?
5 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: And this
6 will be probably the last question from me.
7 But I know where you keep going
8 with this, but my problem is that you keep
9 saying it's unreliable, but the reality is had
10 it gone through, the Governor was going to
11 look back at it 20 to 1. The last -- I don't
12 know what year we changed it, but we changed
13 it back a few years ago to 20 to 1. I think
14 it was four years ago that it became 20 to 1.
15 It's now codified -- if we do this
16 bill, it's codified at 1 to 1 till the program
17 expires or shirt-changers have a problem.
18 Other than that, the reality is
19 that any board that knows all the business
20 representatives in this state are putting
21 together a new program recognizing the
22 limitations involved in being in the
23 manufacturing business or being in the biotech
24 business or being in some of the many
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1 companies that are attractive.
2 In my area, there's a printing
3 company that has grown and is expanding and
4 it's considering purchasing two more
5 companies. They were scared to death about
6 20 to 1. They hit 14 to 1, and they're doing
7 great. So for them, this is terrific.
8 The fear that the program is going
9 to go out of existence I don't think is real,
10 because everyone knows that from the
11 businesspeople, all they have to do is call
12 the Business Council -- which if they're
13 businesspeople, they would -- to know that
14 they're involved in negotiations trying to set
15 up a program that works much better than this
16 one and doesn't necessarily have a 20 to 1,
17 has a recognition of the limitations based on
18 how their investment has to go, the wages that
19 their people get, and what the numbers would
20 fit, overall the whole state, in certain
21 areas.
22 So I don't think they have a worry
23 about whether there will be a continuation or
24 not. And I think it's a real reach to say
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1 that they'll be panicked there won't be a
2 program when they know that we have a
3 commitment to them by just what we're doing to
4 the Governor's suggestion in this budget,
5 making sure that those companies that are
6 doing pretty well, that are hitting 7 to 1,
7 14 to 1, 16 to 1, won't get clawed back and
8 thrown out because they're not hitting 20 to 1
9 when they absolutely had no chance to hit
10 20 to 1 in the first place but they were in
11 the program before we went to a 20-to-1 limit
12 for the companies that are in now.
13 So the reality is they're getting a
14 strong message that we're pro-business. So
15 the reality is we're saving a lot of companies
16 from the Governor's original idea. And even
17 the Governor is receptive, and that's why he
18 has his people negotiating with the various
19 business representatives on putting together a
20 new program, because he understands from
21 hearing from all the companies and being beat
22 up literally by different businesspeople when
23 he did all his town meetings, that his 20-to-1
24 lookback program originally wasn't a good idea
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1 and that something else has to happen and that
2 we should be thankful that the businesspeople
3 are moving forward and trying to negotiate
4 this for us.
5 And we told them, and I'm sure
6 you'll join along, that we will work with
7 them. And Senator Alesi will be invited to --
8 anytime I'm invited, he'll be invited to come
9 along and participate in any kind of role that
10 we'll play in this part of this.
11 So my question is don't you agree
12 that this might be a much better situation and
13 that questions about the longevity of the
14 program should be answered just by the fact
15 that we did recognize the mistake of the
16 Governor's program, we corrected it to a much
17 better situation -- maybe not exactly where we
18 wanted to go, but much better than any
19 alternative we had -- and that we got the
20 business community negotiating on moving
21 forward with even a better program? So that's
22 my question, is don't you think they'd see
23 that as a positive message?
24 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator
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1 Stachowski, through the chair, in response to
2 Senator Stachowski's question, let me answer
3 it with the following.
4 The first is whether this program
5 that is before us today was improved from
6 Governor Paterson's original proposal is a
7 question that could be better answered if this
8 was negotiated before the public and if there
9 was a transparent discussion of what the pros
10 and cons were of the various proposals.
11 It may be an improvement over
12 Governor Paterson's original proposal, but
13 frankly you may have accepted, in your
14 clandestine, behind-closed-doors, no
15 transparent negotiations, something that just
16 isn't appropriate for the long-term economic
17 vitality of New York State.
18 And let me conclude my response to
19 Senator Stachowski's question by asking
20 Senator Stachowski this question
21 parenthetically. Would Senator Stachowski put
22 all his money into a bank that may or may not
23 exist in a year? Would Senator Stachowski and
24 members of your conference invest in a company
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1 that may not exist in 12 months, or could
2 exist but it may not exist, particularly
3 because the people who created that company
4 already had sent signals that they didn't want
5 the company to exist in its current state in
6 12 months?
7 This metaphor is what we are
8 confronted with today. The reality is that
9 business decisions with investors' monies are
10 made well in advance, and they're made to be
11 non-risky decisions. Business is risky
12 enough. These are challenging economic
13 times --
14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
15 Senator Thompson, why do you rise?
16 Excuse me, Senator Nozzolio.
17 SENATOR THOMPSON: Would the
18 Senator yield for a couple of quick questions,
19 please?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
21 Senator Nozzolio, do you yield to Senator
22 Thompson?
23 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, I'd be
24 happy to yield to Senator Thompson.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
2 Senator yields.
3 SENATOR THOMPSON: Has the
4 upstate population declined over the last
5 10 years?
6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
7 I'm asked a question about the demographics of
8 upstate. How does Senator Thompson define
9 "upstate"?
10 SENATOR THOMPSON: Through you,
11 Mr. President. According to my colleagues on
12 the other side of the aisle, it's anything
13 outside of the Bronx.
14 (Laughter.)
15 SENATOR THOMPSON: Will the
16 Senator yield for another question?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
18 Senator Nozzolio, do you continue to yield to
19 Senator Thompson?
20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes,
21 Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
23 Senator yields.
24 SENATOR THOMPSON: Since he
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1 doesn't know whether or not we lost population
2 upstate, I have another question for him. How
3 many jobs have we lost upstate over the last
4 10 years? Do you know that? Can you answer
5 that question, please?
6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
7 I know there were promises by many politicians
8 who were running for statewide office that
9 there would be tens of thousands of jobs
10 created in Western New York in particular. I
11 can't remember exactly what United States
12 Senator candidate made that pledge. Was it
13 10,000 jobs? It was 200,000. I stand
14 corrected, Mr. President. It was 200,000 jobs
15 that were promised upstate New York by a
16 certain candidate for United States Senate. I
17 don't believe those jobs have ever
18 materialized, at least in the area of Central
19 and Western New York that I represent.
20 But I'm sure that Senator Thompson
21 has the figure at his immediate disposal and
22 this question is something that I know he
23 knows the answer to.
24 SENATOR THOMPSON: Will the
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1 Senator yield for one other question, please?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
3 Senator Nozzolio, do you continue to yield?
4 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I would be
5 glad to yield to Senator Thompson.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
7 Senator yields.
8 SENATOR THOMPSON: You know, I am
9 so fascinated that some individuals fail to
10 recognize that some of us actually live
11 upstate and we're a little attuned to some of
12 the concerns that are often spewed out.
13 But I wanted to find out if he was
14 aware of the poverty rates in some of the
15 upstate cities like Buffalo, Rochester,
16 Syracuse, Utica, and Albany, and whether or
17 not he was aware of their poverty rates and
18 whether or not they're in the single digits or
19 in the double digits. If he could kindly
20 answer that. Since we're talking about
21 economic development, if he would be kind
22 enough to answer those questions for me.
23 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I'll be glad
24 to answer Senator Thompson's question. I
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1 guess it would be appropriate for Senator
2 Thompson to know that the City of Geneva is
3 one of the most impoverished cities in upstate
4 New York. And that the zone program, because
5 of the zone program, we were able to recruit
6 Guardian Glass to Geneva to help begin a
7 renaissance in that community that is in
8 upstate New York, as Senator Thompson well
9 knows. It's an area that he has to travel by
10 each week when he comes to Albany.
11 But that Empire Zone program that
12 is being changed by this legislation may very
13 well send a signal to the company that began
14 the renaissance in Geneva that New York is a
15 state that no longer supports business, that
16 it's a state that business can no longer rely
17 on, it's a state that says more jobs will be
18 lost. It says that very clearly, whether it's
19 in Buffalo, Batavia, or the greater Finger
20 Lakes region that I am honored to represent.
21 That the cities of Auburn and
22 Geneva, the communities in Wayne County, in
23 Tompkins County and Seneca County that have
24 zones are now going to be having to explain to
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1 companies that this program exists up until
2 the middle of next year, so we would like you
3 to invest in New York State.
4 And the question then becomes --
5 and maybe I can ask Senator Thompson to yield
6 to respond to this -- what would Senator
7 Thompson tell the companies who are making
8 decisions to invest in Geneva, in Auburn, in
9 Sennett, whether or not this program will
10 definitely exist next year when it's set to
11 expire next year by this legislation?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
13 Senator Thompson, do you consent to yield to
14 Senator Nozzolio?
15 SENATOR THOMPSON: I would love
16 to respond to the Senator's question.
17 Number one, I think that's an
18 excellent question, particularly as someone
19 who joined my colleague Senator Stachowski in
20 supporting the opposition to a lookback
21 provision. You may not be aware of it, but I
22 actually served on the City of Buffalo's
23 Empire Zone board for three years.
24 And I would say to that company
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1 we're going to fight to make sure that you get
2 all the tax incentives that you need. But the
3 key critical question is whether or not you
4 will do things differently than has been done
5 in the past.
6 And so why I asked you the question
7 about the loss of jobs -- yes, we've lost jobs
8 upstate, particularly in the cities. Yes, the
9 poverty rate in most of the upstate cities is
10 double digit. But the critical thing that you
11 must understand, the critical thing that you
12 must understand is since the creation of the
13 zones, that most of our upstate cities, like
14 Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, they have all --
15 most of these cities have seen the job loss
16 continue to increase and the poverty rates
17 continue to increase.
18 So I support the zone. I have a
19 bill that I put in when I first got in here to
20 talk about increasing the wage tax credit,
21 something that I submitted that hopefully,
22 when they reform this program over the next
23 year and a half, that we can improve the wage
24 tax credit so that more people from Buffalo,
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1 Rochester, Syracuse, Utica and Albany can
2 actually -- the people that live next door to
3 these facilities that don't get those jobs
4 because the tax incentives are more lucrative
5 for property taxes and for sales taxes but not
6 the $1500 for a wage tax credit.
7 So yes, some of us are passionate
8 about those upstate issues as well. And so
9 when you spew that -- what sometimes may come
10 across as venom but really is passion, I want
11 you to understand that some of us actually do
12 live upstate as well.
13 Thank you.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
15 you, Senator Thompson.
16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
17 to conclude.
18 That I believe the burden of proof
19 in whether the zone program is going to be
20 benefited by this legislation and that, more
21 importantly, will jobs grow as a result of
22 this legislation, will the priorities of this
23 house support the number-one industry to the
24 degree that under these challenging economic
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1 times, agriculture, which is the number-one
2 job-producing industry in this state, needs
3 support? And it's a question of priority.
4 Thank you, Mr. President, for the
5 opportunity to speak on this legislation.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
7 you, Senator Nozzolio.
8 Senator Flanagan.
9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you,
10 Mr. President. Tough act to follow.
11 Just one thing, very quickly. This
12 book has been placed on everybody's desks, and
13 I think it was referenced earlier. And it is
14 the, quote, unquote, financial plan or
15 otherwise referenced as the budget fact
16 sheets. And I do have some questions relative
17 to this book.
18 But following up on some of the
19 comments from my colleagues, the Empire Zones
20 issue is obviously a statewide issue. But
21 frankly, for the communities I represent, it's
22 not as prevalent as it is in many other areas.
23 But from a simplistic standpoint, people will
24 actually ultimately read some of these
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1 documents, and I think this speaks volumes
2 about what we're trying to do and where we're
3 trying to go.
4 And I will just reference, again,
5 these are words that were put out by the
6 Senate Finance Committee under Senator
7 Kruger's leadership. It talks about the
8 concepts used to reform the program. And two
9 of them say -- the second is to reduce some of
10 the benefits prospectively, and the third is
11 to make entry into the program more difficult.
12 I don't know, if you're trying to
13 entice business into the State of New York and
14 you're telling people you're going to get rid
15 of benefits and you're going to make getting
16 in the program more difficult and this is the
17 preamble of what we're going to do, it seems
18 to me that we're sending a mixed message at
19 best.
20 But on that point, would Senator
21 Kruger yield to some questions, please.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
23 Senator Kruger, do you yield?
24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
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1 Mr. President. But if I can indulge Senator
2 Flanagan for one moment, please.
3 Just to clarify the record, because
4 there was questions made before. The same way
5 as, you know, I think we should all resent the
6 characterization of this chamber being a
7 gulag, I also don't like the word "slush
8 funds."
9 So let's just set the record
10 straight in terms of Senator Young made some
11 representation concerning a so-called slush
12 fund. Research will show that that is what we
13 call a dry appropriation, which means that we
14 create a budget line. And that budget line is
15 to be used for stimulus funds that are
16 competitive and that we have to apply for.
17 And unlike other states, where many
18 have their fiscal years in July, because ours
19 starts so early in the process, we need that
20 line to be able to hopefully apply for
21 additional funds and use those funds and
22 support that line in the budget.
23 So consequently -- through you,
24 Mr. President -- this is not a slush fund,
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1 it's rather an unappropriated line to be used
2 for future stimulus dollars. Thank you.
3 Senator Flanagan.
4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Well, Senator
5 Kruger, inasmuch as you digressed, I will
6 digress as well.
7 I appreciate the characterizations,
8 while I may not agree with them. And I'll
9 just say that I don't like the fact that
10 someone refers to any comments as spewing,
11 coming from either side of the aisle. So
12 since you made some other references, I'll
13 just raise that and hope to engage in a
14 cordial colloquy with you on some of the
15 components of this bill.
16 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Great.
17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I want to go
18 back to some of the things that you said
19 originally. And I know it seems time has
20 passed, so just refreshing your recollection
21 and inquiring at the same time, when you were
22 discussing this legislation with Senator
23 Saland, there was a discussion about some of
24 the things that you said.
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1 And I want to focus on what you
2 referenced as cuts in the General Fund. I
3 wrote down some notes that you said there was
4 $6 billion in cuts and that they came from the
5 General Fund. And then later you said that
6 the General Fund spending was flat.
7 So which one is it? Is there
8 $6 billion in cuts, or is it the General Fund
9 spending is flat?
10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
11 you, Mr. President. Are we talking about
12 Empire Zones, or are we talking about the
13 budget lines?
14 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I'm not
15 talking about Empire Zones at all.
16 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Okay, so
17 we're finished with Empire Zones.
18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I didn't say
19 that. I just said I'm not talking about
20 Empire Zones.
21 I'm talking about references that
22 you made before to General Fund expenditures.
23 I believe that you said that we had cut
24 $6 billion in funds, and then at another point
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1 in your conversation you said General Fund
2 spending was flat. I'm trying to ascertain
3 which one was it or which one is it:
4 $6 billion in cuts, or is it flat?
5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
6 you, Mr. President. Once again, we've made
7 $6 billion in cuts and we've made $6 billion
8 in restorations. So in principle -- and
9 obviously, there may be some dollars that
10 differentiate -- we're flat.
11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President,
12 would Senator Kruger continue to yield?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
14 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
15 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
16 Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
18 Senator yields.
19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. So at
20 one point, Senator Kruger, we actually did
21 make $6 billion in cuts to the General Fund?
22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes.
23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And that
24 before this product came out, we made roughly
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1 another $6 billion in restorations, so our
2 General Fund spending is flat.
3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
4 you, Mr. President, in principle.
5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. So when
6 you reference $6 billion in cutting and the
7 public is trying to figure out exactly what we
8 mean, based on what you're telling me now, I
9 would be fair to go out and say to folks in
10 terms of General Fund spending, we didn't make
11 any cuts, because overall spending in that
12 category of our state budget remains flat?
13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
14 you, Mr. President. Senator Flanagan, it's
15 $6 billion worth of cuts in services, current
16 services, in the budget. While the Executive
17 had --
18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Is that in the
19 General Fund?
20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: While the
21 Executive had $9 billion -- yes, in the
22 General Fund. And we accepted roughly
23 $6 billion.
24 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay, so --
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
2 Senator Flanagan, could you continue to
3 address --
4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President,
5 through you, would Senator Kruger continue to
6 yield?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
8 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield to
9 yield?
10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes.
11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Because part
12 of what we're going to get into here and as we
13 move along in the budget is a discussion about
14 where is state spending going, how did it
15 start and where are we going to finish.
16 So when we differentiate between
17 state spending and federal spending, I think
18 it's fair to get down for the record, when we
19 leave here and go back to our districts, I
20 want to know what the representation is going
21 to be. Is it going to be that there was
22 $6 billion in cuts, or is it going to be that
23 we are spending the same amount that we did
24 last year?
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1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
2 you, Mr. President. I think we're becoming
3 exasperated saying the same thing over and
4 over again. Spending is virtually flat from
5 the General Fund.
6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. Senator
7 Kruger, then on that point, if you would
8 continue to yield.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Do you
10 continue to yield?
11 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: How much is
13 the General Fund spending?
14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: About
15 $55 billion, approximately.
16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And what was
17 it last year?
18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER:
19 Approximately 54.7.
20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay.
21 Relative to the financial plan, if Senator
22 Kruger would continue to yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
24 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
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1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
3 Senator yields.
4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: We have a good
5 set of numbers here on All Fund spending. Is
6 there any particular reason why we don't have
7 General Fund spending year to year and why we
8 don't have State Fund spending as well?
9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
10 you, Mr. President, we do not have exact
11 numbers at this point.
12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Well, Senator
13 Kruger, I -- this is -- it's exasperating on
14 my end as well. And baffling, to quote my
15 colleague Senator Saland.
16 If you don't have specific numbers,
17 then how can you stand here before me and
18 represent that it was $55 billion in General
19 Fund this year and $54.7 last year? Either
20 you have the numbers or you don't.
21 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
22 you, Mr. President. Senator Flanagan, the
23 numbers are rounded. And the projection as
24 well as the representation is not much
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1 different this year than the representations
2 that were made last year. They're rounded
3 numbers.
4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. If
5 Senator Kruger would yield.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
7 Senator, do you yield?
8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
10 Senator yields.
11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator
12 Fuschillo had inquired about whether or not
13 there's any MTA funding in this legislation.
14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, he
15 can.
16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And I believe
17 your answer was no.
18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: The
19 question was was there any new MTA funding.
20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. Is
21 there any MTA funding in this plan?
22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, there
23 is. Of course.
24 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And how much
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1 is that?
2 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
3 you, Mr. President, approximately $2.5 billion
4 in transit aid that comes through DOT, and
5 approximately $82 million in actual capital.
6 And just to further clarify, that's part of
7 the 2005 Bond Act, that that was the
8 agreement.
9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay.
10 Following up as well on something that Senator
11 Fuschillo had asked you, if Senator Kruger
12 would continue to yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Do you
14 continue to yield, Senator Kruger?
15 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
17 Senator yields.
18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: We have a
19 grave concern -- I think everybody does,
20 obviously, all across the state. But on Long
21 Island we are already hamstrung by actions
22 taken by the DOT and by Governor Paterson.
23 And I want to specifically reference an
24 executive order that he issued last November
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1 which included a provision that said basically
2 if your projects are not at least 75 percent
3 federally funded, you're on hold.
4 Essentially, you're dead in the water. So
5 that blew out the construction season on Long
6 Island.
7 As part of your negotiations on
8 transportation, have you resolved that issue
9 and has that executive order been rescinded as
10 a part of this budget?
11 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
12 you, Mr. President. Again, we're not
13 responsible for executive orders instituted by
14 the Governor. However, to the best of my
15 knowledge, that order still is in effect.
16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. And
17 then, more specifically, one of the huge
18 projects on Long Island happens to pass quite
19 a distance through my district, and it's
20 generally referred to as Route 347. Which is
21 going to be easily a $200 million project, and
22 has been put off and delayed.
23 Can you tell me with any certainty
24 in this budget will I know or will our
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1 contractors know or will the residents on Long
2 Island know with specificity if any project is
3 fully funded?
4 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Again
5 through you, Mr. President. Senator Flanagan,
6 specific projects would be negotiated between
7 State DOT and the locality. It's not within
8 the scope of this budget.
9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: So you have no
10 idea or no understanding of what those
11 projects may be, not only on Long Island but
12 in any of our communities throughout the rest
13 of the State of New York?
14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
15 you, Mr. President. The actual individual
16 projects and the oversight of those projects
17 is State DOT. We fund the projects. We fund
18 the agency. We authorize the agency, rather.
19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: If Senator
20 Kruger would continue to yield, Mr. President,
21 through you.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
23 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes,
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1 Mr. President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
3 Senator yields.
4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I'll just
5 quickly reference this project that I spoke
6 of. You said this is between DOT and
7 localities. Are you suggesting that DOT is
8 negotiating with various towns or the county?
9 Because, frankly, it's state money, and we are
10 the ones that have original and ultimate
11 jurisdiction over this and many other
12 projects.
13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
14 you, Mr. President. The memorandum of
15 understanding in the capital plan, 2005
16 capital plan, would have spelled out the
17 individual projects. And it's administered by
18 State DOT.
19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President,
20 would Senator Kruger continue to yield?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
22 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes,
24 Mr. President.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
2 Senator yields.
3 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you,
4 Senator Kruger. I appreciate the courtesy.
5 I want to shift gears, if I could,
6 but I want to be very careful about being
7 germane. And one of the broad concepts that
8 we're going to have to grapple with here and
9 in other pieces of legislation, and you
10 referenced it in something that Senator Young
11 had raised, is federal stimulus money. And
12 I'm going to give you an example of why I as
13 one legislator find myself confused, and maybe
14 you can help clarify some of this for frankly
15 all of us.
16 Several weeks ago the Governor,
17 Malcolm Smith, Shelly Silver, you, Assemblyman
18 Farrell all stood at a public press conference
19 and said that there was $1.6 billion in,
20 quote, unquote, nuisance taxes that were being
21 taken out of the budget.
22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes.
23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: How was that
24 paid for? Was that through federal stimulus
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1 funds?
2 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
3 you, Mr. President.
4 Firstly, there is no such thing as
5 nuisance taxes, but that's beside the point.
6 The 1.2 that was used to alleviate
7 those taxes was a combination of funds, some
8 stimulus, some General Funds. Not one
9 specific pot of money was used. And nothing
10 was tied to.
11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. Senator
12 Kruger, if you would continue to yield.
13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
14 SENATOR FLANAGAN: In your
15 opinion, how much federal stimulus money are
16 we going to be getting for this fiscal year?
17 And in fairness, I would go back to the latter
18 part of the last fiscal year and include that
19 as well.
20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: I'm told
21 about $5.5 billion.
22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And what is
23 your understanding of how much of that is
24 restricted or unrestricted? Mr. President,
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1 through you.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
3 Senator, do you yield?
4 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
5 Mr. President.
6 Through you, Mr. President, as we
7 all know, Washington, sending down the money,
8 tied it to virtually education and healthcare.
9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. Since
10 you reference roughly $5.5 billion, can you
11 differentiate for me and for everyone else how
12 much for education and how much for
13 healthcare?
14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: About
15 1.2 billion for education and about
16 275 million that would be flexible money. And
17 the rest healthcare.
18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. And the
19 healthcare money is unrestricted?
20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: It's
21 reimbursement money.
22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. Let me
23 focus on the education piece, if I could.
24 Mr. President, through you.
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1 In looking at the federal stimulus
2 money as it relates to education, there were
3 two pots. The general-purpose money, are you
4 representing that all that money, that
5 275 million, roughly, is all being used for
6 education?
7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
8 you, Mr. President, would Senator Flanagan
9 define how his questions are germane to the
10 TEDE bill?
11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President,
12 if Senator Kruger is asking me to yield, I'd
13 be happy to do that.
14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: I am.
15 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I started off
16 this portion of my questions being very clear
17 I want to be germane. You can have this
18 conversation with me, you can have it with any
19 one of my colleagues, and we can have it now
20 or we can have it on every single bill. I
21 believe it is germane because you actually
22 talked about a $1 billion appropriation that's
23 not in this bill and spoke about it at length.
24 So I think I'm on fair ground to be
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1 bringing up the use of federal stimulus money,
2 because it is germane to everything we're
3 discussing.
4 And specifically as to your point,
5 Senator Kruger, you referenced Medicaid money
6 or healthcare money that became available that
7 was unrestricted. So it is legitimate for me
8 or for anyone else to be asking whether or not
9 some of that money was used to fund the
10 elements of what is commonly referred to as
11 the TEDE bill.
12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
13 you, Mr. President. Education and healthcare
14 is not in this bill. Any questions raised
15 about education and healthcare and the use of
16 stimulus money should be directed when we get
17 to those appropriate bills.
18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Well,
19 Mr. President, if Senator Kruger would yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
21 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
24 Senator yields.
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1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator
2 Kruger, I'm going to go back to what you said
3 before about the $1 billion fund whose
4 characterization you didn't like, the
5 $1 billion.
6 It is somehow apparent or it's fair
7 for you to get up and discuss that, which is
8 in a completely separate bill, not in the bill
9 before us. But when I'm raising issues about
10 federal stimulus money, somehow it becomes not
11 germane.
12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
13 you, Mr. President, in response to Senator
14 Flanagan. The issue of the so-called slush
15 fund that was raised by the Senator was part
16 of the question on this bill. It had nothing
17 to do about education or with health. It was
18 part of the agriculture amendment. And that's
19 why I raised the issue.
20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President,
21 if Senator Kruger would continue to yield.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
23 Senator Kruger, do you yield?
24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes,
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1 Mr. President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
3 Senator yields.
4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator
5 Kruger, at what point and frankly on what
6 legislation do you believe it would be germane
7 to be discussing the federal stimulus money
8 and its distribution?
9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Well,
10 through you, Mr. President, depending upon
11 what programs that funding would be used for
12 would be the time that it would be germane.
13 If we're talking about education
14 and health, it has nothing to do with the TEDE
15 bill.
16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. Will
17 Senator Kruger continue to yield?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
19 Senator, do you yield?
20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
21 Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
23 Senator yields.
24 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator
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1 Kruger, is there any federal stimulus money
2 that's been used to pay for the components of
3 this legislation before us?
4 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, there
5 is.
6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President,
7 if Senator Kruger would continue to yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
9 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Forgive me,
12 but you're telling me not to speak about
13 something that is so unbelievably germane to
14 this bill because you just represented to me
15 and my colleagues that you're paying for it
16 with federal stimulus money. How much more
17 germane do you have to get?
18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
19 you, Mr. President. Senator Flanagan, I don't
20 understand your question.
21 SENATOR FLANAGAN: My question is
22 this. How much, specifically, how much
23 federal stimulus money is being used to fund
24 the components of the bill before us? You
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1 just said there was money. I would like to
2 know how much.
3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
4 you, Mr. President. I will get back that
5 answer to you, Senator Flanagan.
6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: But there is
7 money being used from the federal stimulus.
8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
9 you, Mr. President, I believe so.
10 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President,
11 on the bill.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
13 Senator Flanagan, on the bill.
14 SENATOR FLANAGAN: When Senator
15 Kruger originally got up, he was talking about
16 the process that we're engaging in and he
17 referenced bipartisanship, and he talked about
18 the outreach that came from the Majority to
19 the Minority.
20 And I made these similar comments
21 when we talked about the deficit reduction
22 plan. I can guarantee you, when I go home and
23 I talk to the people that I represent, I will
24 be very clear. There was at best a hint and a
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1 scintilla, no more, in terms of
2 bipartisanship.
3 Because I know what people are
4 going to say. I'm the ranking Republican on
5 the Education Committee, I got a letter from
6 Senator Oppenheimer in the latter part of
7 March, just like Senator DeFrancisco did from
8 you -- as did all the other chairs to their
9 respective rankers -- and we were asked for
10 our input and our ideas on the budget. And
11 frankly, I was offended. I don't work for
12 Senator Oppenheimer. My colleagues don't work
13 for the chairs of their respective committees.
14 I work for my constituents and the residents
15 of the State of New York.
16 I wrote back politely and said that
17 the proper discourse and the proper venue for
18 that is public dialogue and transparency and
19 things that we call the conference committees
20 that everybody supported unanimously in the
21 Budget Reform Act of 2007.
22 So you can dance around it a
23 hundred different ways, but the bottom line is
24 this was the most secretive process certainly
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1 in the 23 years I've been in Albany. And you
2 know what? You're in charge. If that's how
3 you decide to do it, I don't have to agree
4 with it, but that's the reality.
5 So I don't think anyone should walk
6 out of here making any assumptions about
7 whether this was a bipartisan process and
8 whether there was any real outreach. I am
9 certainly not going to represent that to my
10 constituents. And when I am at public forums
11 with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle
12 in both houses, I will be absolutely
13 crystal-clear that there was no bipartisanship
14 in this budget process.
15 Thank you, Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
17 you, Senator Flanagan.
18 Senator Libous.
19 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
20 Mr. President. Would Senator Dilan, the
21 chairman of Transportation, yield for a
22 question?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
24 Senator Dilan is not in the chamber at this
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1 time, Senator Libous.
2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Well, then,
3 Senator Kruger, would you yield for a question
4 on transportation?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
6 Senator Kruger, would you yield to Senator
7 Libous?
8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I
9 will.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
11 Senator yields.
12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
13 Senator.
14 Senator, for the last several years
15 you've heard me on this floor talk about the
16 Dedicated Highway Trust Fund. Is the fund
17 being raided again this year, Senator Kruger?
18 Through you, Mr. President.
19 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
20 you, Mr. President. In all due respect, what
21 does "raided" mean?
22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Is that a
23 question, Mr. President?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
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1 Senator Kruger, are you asking Senator Libous
2 to yield to you?
3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I
4 guess so.
5 SENATOR LIBOUS: I won't yield
6 the floor, but I'll answer his question.
7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you.
8 SENATOR LIBOUS: "Raided," in my
9 opinion, and in the opinion of the people that
10 I represent, and quite frankly the people of
11 State of New York, is when a Dedicated Highway
12 Trust Fund was set up -- and I emphasize the
13 word "trust fund" -- the money that was go
14 into that fund was to be used for road and
15 bridge repair.
16 For the last several years the
17 administration has taken money from that fund,
18 I call it a raid, and used that for other
19 means. And I'm curious if the money has been
20 taken from the fund again. So I will rephrase
21 my word "raided" and say that money was taken
22 from the fund and used for other means. Has
23 that happened again this year, Mr. President?
24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
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1 you, Mr. President. If I understand the
2 question correctly, Senator Libous, there is
3 approximately $220 million that is
4 redistributed from the dedicated fund to DMV,
5 which is allowed within the scope of the
6 federal regulation. State law, I'm sorry.
7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
8 through you, would Senator Kruger continue to
9 yield?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
11 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?
12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
14 Senator yields.
15 SENATOR LIBOUS: And, Senator
16 Kruger, the $200 million, do you know what
17 that $200 million is used for in DOT?
18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
19 you, Mr. President, operations.
20 SENATOR LIBOUS: So,
21 Mr. President -- and thank you, Senator
22 Kruger, on that question, that specific
23 question. I'm not done, sir. But --
24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
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1 Senator Fuschillo, why do you rise?
2 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: I'm going to
3 give Senator Kruger a break. Would Senator
4 Libous yield for a question?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
6 Senator Libous, do you yield to Senator
7 Fuschillo?
8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Yeah, I will,
9 Mr. President.
10 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: You don't
11 object, Senator Kruger, do you?
12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: No, not in
13 the least.
14 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Senator
15 Libous, you talked about raiding the Dedicated
16 Highway and Bridge Trust Fund. I know as the
17 chair of the Senate Transportation Committee
18 you had legislation for many years in this
19 house pending that. Could you explain --
20 SENATOR SALAND: Excuse me,
21 Mr. President. For whatever reason, whether
22 it's Senator Fuschillo's microphone -- it is
23 difficult.
24 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: How about
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1 now? Is that better?
2 SENATOR SALAND: Yes.
3 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay, thank
4 you.
5 Could you talk a little bit about
6 the need for the legislation that you've had
7 pending here that would prevent the raid and
8 what was the purpose of your question where
9 have the funds been going that are supposed to
10 be dedicated for that specific account?
11 SENATOR LIBOUS: Certainly,
12 Mr. President. And through you,
13 Mr. President. For the last couple of years
14 the Dedicated Highway Trust Fund, and I
15 emphasize the word "trust," was set up to
16 collect fees -- from fuel fees, from motor
17 vehicle fees -- to go into a fund to pave
18 roads and bridges in New York State. A
19 portion of those dollars have gone to pay for
20 bonding that has paid for roads and bridges
21 and certainly to try to take care of the needs
22 of the highways of New York State.
23 In the last couple of years, and I
24 remember on the floor last year I referenced
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1 that over $213 million was transferred from
2 the Dedicated Highway Trust Fund, a fund to
3 pave roads and take care of the ailing and
4 failing bridges in this state -- and by the
5 way, Mr. President, DOT put out a report last
6 year that talked about the number of bridges
7 that were in disrepair in our state. And,
8 Mr. President, there were hundreds of bridges
9 throughout the state. The report is quite a
10 large report, it's about this thick
11 (indicating), and it talks about safety to the
12 citizens of New York State. And certainly the
13 money in that Dedicated Highway Trust Fund was
14 supposed to and is supposed to go to road and
15 bridge repair.
16 But $213 million last year was
17 transferred to, as Senator Kruger mentioned,
18 the Department of Motor Vehicles to pay for
19 the operation of the Department of Motor
20 Vehicles. Now, normally that's done out of
21 the General Fund. Normally, that's done out
22 of state operations. But for whatever reason,
23 the Dedicated Highway Trust Fund, money used
24 that's supposed to go to repair roads and
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1 bridges, goes to that.
2 There's also, Mr. President, I
3 believe about $500 million, maybe now
4 $600 million that goes to snow and ice
5 removal, to the Department of Transportation.
6 That's taken from that dedicated fund, you
7 know, close to a billion dollars. It's not
8 quite a billion dollars, but it may be closer.
9 And, Mr. President, Senator Kruger, as
10 chairman of Finance, may have those updated
11 numbers. I don't have them available. But
12 again, taken away from a Dedicated Highway
13 Trust Fund that was set up by this body to pay
14 for road and bridge repair. Dangerous
15 bridges, very, very dangerous to our citizens.
16 So that money is now transferred
17 out and goes into the maintenance and
18 operation of DOT. Again, in the past, was
19 paid for out of a General Fund account.
20 So, Mr. President, I hope that
21 answers Senator Fuschillo's question.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
23 Senator Fuschillo.
24 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.
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1 President, would the Senator continue to
2 yield?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
4 Senator Libous, do you continue to yield?
5 SENATOR LIBOUS: Sure.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
7 Senator yields.
8 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: My
9 understanding, based on my original questions
10 to Senator Kruger prior to this discussion,
11 was that about $2 billion is going into that
12 fund this year, but a very small percentage is
13 actually going to be for construction.
14 Is the same principle being applied
15 here, where X amount of dollars will be going
16 to pay for debt and a very small amount will
17 be going for actual construction?
18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Actually,
19 Mr. President, through you, I know the
20 question came up earlier that Senator
21 Fuschillo talked about the CHIPS money. And I
22 believe he offered a question up to Senator
23 Kruger.
24 And, you know, the Governor cut the
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1 CHIPS money, and certainly it was restored,
2 and that's a good thing. But what's
3 interesting, and it pertains to the fund, is
4 that about $363 million in CHIPS funding goes
5 to local governments. But what's alarming is
6 that $440 million will go to cover the bonding
7 of that 363.
8 So it's a problem, because more and
9 more of the Dedicated Highway Fund is going to
10 bonding and to pay debt rather than actually
11 going into road and bridge repair. And as the
12 fund is continually raided, then more and more
13 of the fund will go to bonding, because that
14 500 million that I mentioned, and add
15 200 million on top of that, that's 700, say
16 $800 million could have gone to road and
17 bridge repair.
18 Mr. President, could I continue to
19 ask the chairman of Finance, Senator Kruger, a
20 couple of questions?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: You
22 certainly may.
23 Senator Kruger, do you yield to
24 Senator Libous?
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1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
3 Senator yields.
4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
5 Mr. President.
6 Senator Kruger, would you concur
7 that also the money is still being taken out
8 for snow and ice repair, as I mentioned?
9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, it is.
10 And if I could just comment,
11 Senator Libous, to expand on your question.
12 SENATOR LIBOUS: I would be happy
13 to listen.
14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: This
15 program developed in 2005, when Republicans
16 were in the majority, is faulty. We know
17 that. And interestingly enough, you had press
18 conferences around this very issue, and we
19 agree with you. And we would like very, very
20 much to offer a bipartisan approach over this
21 next segment after we finish this budget to
22 see how we better utilize our shared expertise
23 in making this program a better one.
24 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
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1 could I respond to his comment?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
3 Senator Libous, yes.
4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you.
5 Mr. President, through you. Of course,
6 Senator Kruger, I welcome your offer.
7 And, you know, this house did vote
8 for legislation two years in a row that I put
9 on the floor when I sat on that side of the
10 aisle that would stop the raiding of the
11 Dedicated Highway Fund, and it passed
12 unanimously. So I would welcome that.
13 And I appreciate you making the
14 offer, because I think we have to stop raiding
15 that fund, because the taxpayers believe that
16 that is a sacred fund that is supposed to go
17 to road and bridge repair.
18 And again, Mr. President, this
19 year -- and if I could ask Senator Kruger
20 another question.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
22 Senator Kruger, do you yield?
23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
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1 Senator yields.
2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Will the
3 increases this year, Senator Kruger, in
4 vehicle registration fees, will they be going
5 into this fund, I'm assuming, as they have,
6 all vehicle registration fees have in the
7 past?
8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
9 you, Mr. President, yes, they will.
10 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
11 if Senator Kruger would still yield.
12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.
13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Would those
14 funds go to highway road and bridge repair, or
15 will they be swept out to be utilized for
16 other purposes?
17 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
18 you, Mr. President, once again, they're not
19 segregated, as you're well aware, Senator
20 Libous. So the answer is it's a mixed answer
21 to a mixed bag.
22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
23 Mr. President. Could I speak on the bill?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
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1 Senator Libous, on the bill.
2 SENATOR LIBOUS: I am going to
3 offer my comments particularly to the
4 transportation piece of this legislation. And
5 I certainly defer to my colleagues who have
6 spoken on a number of other issues.
7 It was talked about earlier today
8 that there was going to be job generation in
9 this bill, and what I am concerned about is
10 this. That according to what I can find in
11 the transportation bill, and what I understand
12 is that there's about $1.6 billion in the
13 existing letting program, and the letting
14 program is the number of jobs that DOT puts
15 out on the street. Those are when your
16 contractors call you and say, Hey, where are
17 the projects, how come they're not moving?
18 There's $1.6 billion, which is about a
19 $300 million cut in this program.
20 And in 2005, as Senator Kruger
21 mentioned before, this house voted and agreed
22 on a highway program at a certain level, it
23 was a five-year plan. And it also went to the
24 taxpayers of this state and asked the
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1 taxpayers to bond. And if you recall, we
2 passed a transportation bond issue. And we
3 told the taxpayers at the time that the money
4 was going to be used for road, bridge, highway
5 repair and other issues.
6 This budget really breaks that
7 commitment, because there will be $300 million
8 less in actual letting going out the door this
9 year. That's something that concerns me,
10 especially as we talk about jobs.
11 Let me take it a step further. As
12 Senator Kruger correctly said earlier, there
13 is stimulus money that is in this package.
14 And certainly we all know that there are
15 strings attached to stimulus money. I guess,
16 you know, I asked a question did the stimulus
17 money for highway funds, you know, make up the
18 reduction in state spending. And my answer to
19 that is going to be no. And that's really a
20 short answer.
21 But there's about a billion dollars
22 in highway stimulus funds that go into this
23 budget. But what's concerning is that -- and
24 that's for the next two years. Okay? That's
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1 a billion dollars for the next two years. So
2 if you cut it in half, that's what,
3 500 million one year, 500 million the next.
4 But this budget also cuts
5 600 million in state construction during the
6 same time. That's 600 million in state
7 construction funds at the same time. So
8 you're again spending less than what was
9 proposed in the capital plan that was put
10 together by this house in 2005. That's less
11 spending, that's less construction jobs,
12 that's less jobs being created than we
13 actually committed to and passed in this house
14 in 2005.
15 So I'm very concerned that while my
16 colleagues on the other side of the aisle talk
17 about all these jobs that are going to be
18 created, at least from the DOT side -- I can
19 only speak on DOT. I don't profess to be an
20 expert. I know a little bit about it from
21 chairing the committee.
22 I find transportation to be an
23 exciting area of the state budget because it
24 ties to economic development and our future
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1 growth, whether it be rail or aviation and
2 again, hopefully someday fixing -- and I take
3 Senator Kruger's offer up, and we will work
4 together to fix that Dedicated Highway Fund,
5 because that's something I wanted to do for
6 the last several years.
7 But to say that at least from the
8 transportation side of this that additional
9 jobs are going to be created, I question that.
10 I only question that because if I look at the
11 numbers, the numbers are telling me that we're
12 to be putting less out in this fiscal year
13 than we've committed in the past. And if
14 we're putting less money on the street -- and
15 I've dealt with the contractors, I've dealt
16 with many of the people in the industry -- it
17 means that they're going to hire less people
18 in the construction season.
19 So while I certainly -- I think,
20 looking at the spending portion of this
21 budget -- and I do applaud the fact that the
22 CHIPS money was put back in the budget. I
23 know that's something that everybody on the
24 this side of the aisle worked hard -- Senator
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1 Fuschillo, as the ranker of the committee.
2 And I guess if Senator Dilan were here, I'd
3 even say thank you to him. So if he's
4 listening, I say thank you to you too for
5 doing that, because that's a very important
6 part of this transportation budget.
7 Thank you, Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
9 you, Senator Libous.
10 Senator Thompson.
11 SENATOR THOMPSON: On the bill.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
13 Senator Thompson, on the bill.
14 SENATOR THOMPSON: I won't be
15 long, because I know we've been on this bill
16 for a number of hours.
17 But first I want to thank you,
18 Mr. President, for recognizing me. I want to
19 also thank Chairman Kruger for his insight
20 into the budget and his tenacity in moving
21 through this process.
22 Just a couple of things I think are
23 important to note about the environment. This
24 budget will provide $454.5 million in stimulus
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1 money, $9.45 million for spills management,
2 $10 million for land and forest grants, and
3 $435 million for water pollution.
4 This budget as well, so many people
5 raised concerns. The Governor's initial
6 proposal really proposed a sweeping change to
7 the Environmental Protection Fund, and many of
8 my colleagues on both sides of the aisle
9 raised a concern regarding using the real
10 estate transfer tax, removing that as the
11 primary source of funding from the EPF. And
12 so with the help of so many people in this
13 room and so many advocates, we were able to
14 reject that proposal by the Governor.
15 The other thing I think is
16 important to note is that there's been a
17 number of sweeps of the EPF. This budget
18 proposed a $45 million sweep. And with the
19 help of a number of advocates and groups, we
20 will not be sweeping the EPF.
21 I believe that there's still some
22 unfinished business to do as relates to the
23 EPF that we can hopefully submit in a
24 bipartisan way by the end of session as
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1 relates to repayment language. I know that
2 former chairman of the Senate EnCon Committee,
3 Senator Marcellino, in addition to Assemblyman
4 Sweeney in the Assembly, have bills that
5 they'd like to have negotiated to deal with
6 the repayment provisions of over $500 million
7 in sweeps taken place to the EPF.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Excuse
9 me, Senator Thompson.
10 Senator Marcellino, why do you
11 rise?
12 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I would just
13 like to ask if Senator Thompson would yield
14 for just one question.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
16 Senator Thompson, do you yield to Senator
17 Marcellino?
18 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes,
19 absolutely.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
21 Senator yields.
22 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator
23 Thompson, you and I have talked about this
24 before. You mentioned the legislation that I
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1 sponsored in this house and that was passed
2 unanimously by this chamber and the other
3 house and became law that established the EPF
4 at $250 million in last year's budget and
5 raised it to $300 million in this year's
6 budget.
7 The bill that we're talking about
8 and the bill that will be coming up in
9 Article 7, is the EPF higher or lower than
10 $300 million? Or is it the same as
11 $300 million, or is it less than $300 million?
12 SENATOR THOMPSON: Through you,
13 Mr. President. The bill will be less than
14 $300 million. But as many of you know, even
15 with the lower amounts it's been difficult to
16 get all of those dollars out of the door, and
17 that's what has led to a lot of the sweeps.
18 And so I believe as we come out of
19 this fiscal climate, this period of economic
20 recovery, that we all will support, I would
21 hope, to moving it up to that $300 million
22 once we get out of this fiscal climate. As
23 many people are aware, the Governor's budget
24 came in, I believe, at $205 million, and today
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1 we have increased it by more than $17 million,
2 coming up with different ways.
3 And I think the number-one thing
4 for most of the advocates this year was to,
5 one, deal with the RETT. I believe we did
6 that, to protect the EPF. And two was the
7 issue of making sure that we deal with the
8 Bottle Bill, which I'll talk about after
9 Senator Marcellino is finished.
10 Do you have any other questions?
11 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes. Just
12 one more.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
14 Senator Thompson, do you yield?
15 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes,
16 absolutely.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
18 Senator yields.
19 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator
20 Thompson, the bill that we're talking about,
21 that we're going to be talking about, depends
22 upon, in part, fees that were increased, such
23 as fees to pesticide applicators, fees to new
24 wetlands projects, and so forth.
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1 There's no guarantee -- there's
2 supposed to be an additional $5 million. At
3 least the first $5 million was supposed to go
4 into the Environmental Protection Fund to
5 bring it up to the number you're talking
6 about, amongst other fees. There's no
7 guarantees that any of these fees will achieve
8 the level that is anticipated. Is that not
9 so?
10 SENATOR THOMPSON: I would
11 respectfully disagree. I mean, I think
12 anytime we put budgets together, we put in
13 projections. And I think whether it's the
14 RETT or whether it's any other number that's
15 assigned to any budget, it's based on
16 projected revenue.
17 And I believe that not only will we
18 reach that projection, that we're going to
19 work collectively with the various respective
20 agencies and the advocates to not only get the
21 money out the door but to improve the process
22 and make sure that we not only get the revenue
23 in but also spend the money a lot faster and a
24 lot better as well.
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1 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I just
2 wanted to make the point that the EPF was
3 supposed to be $300 million and is
4 significantly less now. This budget does
5 swipe money out of the EPF into other areas.
6 There is no language here that guarantees
7 repayment. There has never been any repayment
8 of EPF funds. There's almost a half a billion
9 dollars in EPF money that has been swept by
10 prior administrations, right up to and
11 including this one, that has not been paid
12 back. And there doesn't seem to be a plan to
13 have it paid back.
14 I think that has to be addressed,
15 and we will address it in the next bill with
16 an amendment.
17 Thank you, Senator Thompson.
18 SENATOR THOMPSON: On the bill,
19 just a couple of quick things.
20 First, this bill does not have a
21 cash sweep. The $45 million I believe in cash
22 sweep has been rejected. We've always done
23 some bonding. This bill will do about
24 $95 million in bonding for various capital
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1 projects, many that will be performed and
2 conducted, as always, in many Senate districts
3 across the state.
4 I think the other point that's
5 important to note about this bill is that we
6 did conduct a number of hearings on the Bottle
7 Bill. And the hearings I thought were very
8 inclusive. We did not have hearings where all
9 the people who were for it spoke first and all
10 the people who were against it spoke last.
11 I think for the people -- in fact,
12 in the hearing that was held in Albany, I want
13 to thank my colleagues from both sides of the
14 aisle that came out and actually gave some
15 very good input and testimony from not only
16 the members but also from people on both sides
17 of the issue.
18 The Bottle Bill has been something
19 that many folks have been supportive of
20 throughout the years. It has over a
21 75 percent approval rating in public opinion
22 polls. This bill I believe is a compromise.
23 It's a compromise bill. As an advocate,
24 someone who is passionate about this issue, I
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1 would like to have seen it bigger. I would
2 have loved to see it bigger. But some people
3 said let's try to work on a compromise
4 proposal.
5 So this compromise only goes to
6 bottled water. It's not your ice teas, your
7 sports drinks, your fruit juices. It takes
8 out of our landfills, out of our farms more
9 than 1.5 billion containers that are purchased
10 and consumed in the State of New York each and
11 every year. So it's a compromise proposal.
12 It's not as ambitious and robust as
13 many of us who have been supporters of the
14 Bigger Better Bottle Bill would have liked.
15 But it's a compromise. We listened to some of
16 the concerns of the supermarkets. They were
17 concerned about overredemption.
18 In fact, there's some members on
19 the other side of the aisle and this side of
20 the aisle that were concerned about the fact
21 that the big box retailers, traditionally your
22 Wal-Marts, your Sam's Clubs, your Targets, do
23 not really at this present do a fair job of
24 enforcing the Bottle Bill.
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1 So this bill will seek to address
2 and rectify some of those problems.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
4 Senator Marcellino, why do you rise?
5 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Would the
6 Senator yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
8 Senator Thompson, do you yield?
9 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes, sir,
10 absolutely.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
12 Senator yields.
13 SENATOR MARCELLINO: You
14 mentioned the Bottle Bill. I was going to
15 save this for another time, but why not.
16 How much revenue is anticipated to
17 come from the proposed new Bottle Bill?
18 SENATOR THOMPSON: According to
19 our numbers, it will be a minimum of 115 will
20 go to the state.
21 SENATOR MARCELLINO: How much do
22 you -- I'm sorry. Through you, Mr. Chairman.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Do you
24 continue to yield, Senator?
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1 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
3 Senator yields.
4 SENATOR MARCELLINO: How much do
5 you expect to get this year, in this fiscal
6 year?
7 SENATOR THOMPSON: This fiscal
8 year I believe is budgeted for $115 million.
9 In fact, the Container Recycling Institute
10 believes that it will be higher than that, but
11 we took the conservative estimate.
12 In addition to that, we also --
13 they believe it's going to be 218. We
14 budgeted 215. And out of that, whatever is
15 left, if there's more money left, 20 percent
16 of that will go to the industry.
17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr.
18 President, if the Senator could continue to
19 yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
21 Senator Thompson, do you continue to yield?
22 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes,
23 absolutely.
24 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator
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1 Thompson, how do you propose to deal with the
2 issue of a single label for New York State
3 relative to bottled water?
4 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes, the UPC
5 code?
6 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yeah.
7 SENATOR THOMPSON: The UPC code I
8 believe will be addressed during the
9 regulatory process.
10 That is an issue, as I explained to
11 some of our colleagues, that you have some
12 supermarkets right now that would prefer to
13 have a universal UPC code, and some
14 distributors or manufacturers would like to
15 have a universal one, and then you have some
16 on the other side that would like to have a
17 state-specific. Because as you are aware,
18 there are certain supermarkets that have what
19 we call a private label. Meaning Hannaford
20 Foods may do their own bottled water. And
21 they may not only operate in New York State.
22 So there's not a uniform opinion
23 right now on whether you should have a
24 universal UPC or state code. And I think this
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1 is something that all of us who have been
2 really involved with this would like to allow
3 the right to work out through the regulatory
4 process.
5 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Well, I
6 understand what you're saying, and I concur
7 that there is going to be a problem. And if
8 one talks to the industry, as I have --
9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
10 Senator Marcellino, are you asking Senator
11 Thompson to continue to yield?
12 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I will in a
13 second.
14 As I have spoken to the industry,
15 they tell me that there is no way that that
16 process can be accomplished within six months
17 to a year. So Senator Thompson, if he would
18 continue to yield --
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
20 Senator, do you continue to yield?
21 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes,
22 absolutely.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
24 Senator yields.
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1 SENATOR MARCELLINO: If you can't
2 resolve this problem within the next six
3 months to a year, assuming the industry --
4 they ought to know -- assuming the industry is
5 correct, if you can't resolve this problem in
6 six months to a year, how do you accomplish
7 the effect of getting any money? Because
8 you're not going to have a code and you're not
9 going to be able to redeem the bottles.
10 SENATOR THOMPSON: Through you,
11 Madam Chairwoman. First let me say that --
12 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Is it
13 something we said?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
15 Look what you did, you changed everything.
16 (Laughter.)
17 SENATOR THOMPSON: Through you,
18 Madam Chairwoman, the issue at hand is not
19 that complicated. Number one, I think we need
20 to recognize that we are not the only state in
21 the union that deals with bottled water.
22 Number two, Connecticut, as you are
23 aware, last month just passed a bottle bill
24 for bottled water, and they gave them a pretty
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1 short time frame. And some will be a little
2 late, but most, I am told, will be on time.
3 The other issue is in terms of the
4 companies, we're always going to -- I am told
5 that the state, as always, will do its best to
6 work with these companies. Many of the bigger
7 companies said that they are prepared to
8 address this issue. And some of the smaller
9 breweries and things of that nature I believe
10 will be assisted through the regulatory
11 process. And there is also some transition
12 money that may be available as well.
13 SENATOR MARCELLINO: If the
14 Senator will continue to yield, Madam
15 President.
16 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes,
17 absolutely.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
19 Senator Thompson continues to yield.
20 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator
21 Thompson, I hear what you're saying. But the
22 fact is many of these companies are saying
23 that it cannot be done, that it cannot be met.
24 And what the state is likely to do is have no
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1 product on the shelf at a given period of
2 time. Connecticut hasn't collected a dime
3 yet -- or a nickel, if you will, from their
4 law because they haven't got any labels.
5 You've got a brewery in your
6 section of the state that is cancelling
7 projects or a proposed project to expand and
8 is talking about possibly even closing down as
9 a result of this particular law, with the loss
10 of several jobs in that region, which is
11 something we don't want.
12 We're hearing that -- many of the
13 grocery stores are telling us that it's going
14 to cost jobs because they aren't going to be
15 able to make back -- this 20 percent is not
16 going to cover their cost of doing business.
17 The bottlers are not going to be able to cover
18 their costs. Some of them are just not going
19 to be there. Some of the smaller operators
20 are not going to be there.
21 There's an Anheuser-Busch brewery
22 that is in I believe Senator Aubertine's
23 district that is likewise saying they're going
24 to close down too, and they're cancelling a
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1 project for expansion.
2 Senator, I go back to you again.
3 This bill, while you're projecting numbers,
4 these are largely guesstimates of the worst
5 kind. There is no basis for which these
6 numbers -- you hear every time we talk a
7 different set of numbers. It started out as
8 $30 million, it then went to the $100 million,
9 it's now up to $218 million. There's no way
10 that this can be done.
11 And when I asked you how are we
12 going to make the label factors, well, we'll
13 work with the industry and I'm sure something
14 can happen. Again, no answer to the question.
15 Senator, I suggest to you and I'm
16 asking if you would agree that this poses a
17 serious problem with the revenue that this
18 bill is supposed to generate that adds to the
19 balancing of this budget. If the revenue
20 doesn't come in, is this budget balanced?
21 SENATOR THOMPSON: Through you,
22 Madam Chair.
23 First, I'm sure that my
24 colleague -- I will respectfully suggest that
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1 New York State is probably the third-biggest
2 market for most of these national and some
3 regional retailers. And so we -- so that
4 you're -- for full disclosure, one company I
5 met with six times. Six. I went to one
6 company's facility twice. Every group that
7 wanted to participate in this process, I met
8 on a minimum of one time. Many of their
9 recommendations to this bill are a result of
10 members on both sides of the aisle in addition
11 to people from industry.
12 No industry, for the most part,
13 will say "Give us more regulation" or "We want
14 to give you more money." Most won't. But I
15 think if you look at this bill from what was
16 proposed in December of 2008, you can honestly
17 say that this bill has been substantially
18 modified to address many of the issues.
19 Is it perfect? Absolutely not.
20 But if you talk about equal enforcement of the
21 Bottle Bill, this addresses that through
22 posting for consumer rights and the rights of
23 the store owners. If you talk about equal
24 enforcement as relates to big box retailers
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1 compared to convenience stores and
2 supermarkets, this bill begins to address
3 that. If we talk about making sure that
4 there's shared sacrifice, this bill addresses
5 that.
6 Do we take 100 percent from the
7 bottlers like Connecticut just did where
8 Nestle and Poland Spring is in Connecticut?
9 We didn't do that. We offered a compromise.
10 In addition to that, I am certain,
11 with members on both sides of the aisle,
12 through the regulatory process we will address
13 even more issues. But we know and you know,
14 as someone who's spent a lot of time on
15 environmental issues, that many of these
16 companies, whether it's dealing with lead
17 paint, fire-safe cigarettes, every time we
18 come up with something to provide more
19 regulation, they will always say they can't do
20 it unless government pushes them along.
21 And I think this is a fair and a
22 better deal. And as I said to someone
23 yesterday, if they couldn't get this deal in
24 Connecticut, where Poland Spring is
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1 headquartered, why would they think they could
2 get a better deal in New York State? This is
3 a better deal than they got in their own home
4 state of Connecticut.
5 Thank you.
6 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you,
7 Senator. I just would comment that again,
8 we'll propose an amendment for the Article 7
9 bill and we'll expand upon this discussion
10 more.
11 But the numbers that I'm hearing
12 from you, the initial Bottle Bill -- if you
13 would continue to yield.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
15 Senator Thompson, do you continue to yield?
16 SENATOR THOMPSON: Absolutely.
17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: The initial
18 Bottle Bill included a whole bunch of other
19 things like juices and other types of drinks.
20 I heard the same numbers for revenue on that
21 original Bottle Bill that included juice and
22 all kinds of other bottled drinks,
23 noncarbonated bottled drinks, not just water.
24 But the same numbers, total numbers --
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1 $218 million, $111 million -- all of this
2 stuff, same numbers.
3 You're taking less product,
4 Senator. You're taking less product. You're
5 not taking the juices. Yet you're using the
6 same revenue source and the same revenue
7 numbers. I don't know how that works. Can
8 you explain that, please?
9 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes.
10 Let me just say this. Assembly
11 Bill 9777 and Senate Bill 2831, I believe
12 those were the two bill numbers that did the
13 original Bottle Bill, if I'm correct. And,
14 you know, what's so fascinating about it is
15 that I was only 12 years of age at that time.
16 But I will say that I remember as a young man
17 going to Detroit, Michigan, where at that
18 point they had a bottle law, and every summer
19 I used to -- my aunt owned a store, and I
20 would wonder why we could take cans back there
21 and we couldn't do it in New York.
22 But you know what, in 1982 they
23 said that all these companies, they were going
24 to leave the state, they were going to lay off
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1 people, it could never be done, it would never
2 happen. And I'm sure some of the members on
3 both sides of the aisle remember those same
4 things. Right? You know that.
5 And the fascinating part about this
6 is that there are people, as you know,
7 Senator, that are waiting for this to happen
8 so that redemption centers and other companies
9 can continue to grow and take the pressure off
10 our supermarkets.
11 And is it a perfect process? No.
12 But I can tell you this, that implementing
13 this bill in 2009 will be a lot easier than it
14 was in 1982. And I think everyone, whether
15 you support the bill or not, would agree with
16 that.
17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator, I
18 would just --
19 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
20 Senator Marcellino, do you wish Senator
21 Thompson to continue to yield?
22 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, if he
23 would.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
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1 Senator Thompson, do you continue to yield?
2 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes.
3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator, I
4 wasn't 12 years old in 1982, so I can't relate
5 to that time frame. It was a blur.
6 (Laughter.)
7 SENATOR MARCELLINO: That's more
8 information than some of my colleagues needed.
9 The question that I would like to
10 ask you is, are you aware of the
11 overredemption that occurs in those areas of
12 the state that border other states without the
13 bottle bill? Some areas, some stores have
14 talked about 150, 130, in some cases
15 approaching double that in redemptions from
16 other states -- people crossing the line,
17 going to stores, bringing the bottles bought
18 in other areas and redeeming them in the
19 state -- causing a tremendous hardship
20 financially on the stores in those regions.
21 Are you aware of that, and how does
22 this bill address that?
23 SENATOR THOMPSON: Through you,
24 Madam Chairwoman. That is the dilemma that we
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1 have with the existing Bottle Bill and the
2 expanded. And that's why there were industry
3 people and some advocates who wanted a UPC
4 code, a New York State base.
5 The problem that I foresee right
6 now is that you have the industry and some of
7 the supermarket chains are mixed on it. And
8 so we have to, through the regulatory process,
9 find out what is the best way in that area.
10 Because some people want a universal UPC code,
11 and some people want a New York State-based
12 one.
13 But most of the people have said,
14 by and large, that many of the issues that
15 they were concerned about outside of this UPC
16 code, and maybe one or two small issues, have
17 said that many of their concerns have been
18 addressed.
19 And I think that process that
20 you're talking about now, I think we can work
21 through that process. And I believe we have
22 to also be mindful in 1982 they were starting
23 from scratch. And we're not starting from
24 scratch. We have a lot of folks who have
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1 institutional knowledge as advocates, as
2 legislators, as staffers, and as companies as
3 well.
4 So I believe they'll be able to
5 work through that. And if you have
6 suggestions, I'm always available and I'll do
7 everything to support some of the ones that
8 make sense.
9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Madam
10 Chairman, if the Senator would continue.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
12 Senator Thompson, do you continue to yield?
13 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes,
14 absolutely.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
16 The Senator yields.
17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I take
18 Senator Thompson at his word. I know he is an
19 honorable gentleman. And we have -- as ranker
20 on the committee now, and he is chairman of
21 the committee, we have worked well together,
22 and I respect his leadership.
23 The question that I would raise,
24 though, is in the realm of enforcement. I do
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1 not see the DEC doing much in that area that
2 needs to be done. You have a tremendous
3 amount of stores, entities, that give away or
4 sell sodas and sell bottled drinks that are
5 now currently under the nickel package.
6 And by the way, in 1982 we didn't
7 have curbside recycling. So there are
8 curbside recycling programs out there now that
9 would address and could address much of this
10 recycling and getting stuff off the streets.
11 With that being said, if you go a
12 drugstore -- they're selling soda, water,
13 whatever -- and try to redeem a bag of soda
14 bottles at your local CVS or Rite Aid, they'll
15 look at you like cross-eyed, because they
16 don't have the means of doing it and they
17 don't even want to do it.
18 What in this bill requires or would
19 get the DEC or would give them the
20 wherewithal -- because it's my understanding
21 that their budget has been cut and that their
22 staffing levels are not what they should be in
23 order to enforce this bill. How are they
24 going to get to the ability to enforce and go
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1 into those areas -- gas stations, drugstores,
2 you name it, delis -- that are small and are
3 not redeeming the bottles currently? Are they
4 going to redeem more?
5 SENATOR THOMPSON: Very, very
6 good points. I want to thank you for that
7 question, those two specific questions.
8 Two things on that item right
9 there. Number one, this bill creates a Bigger
10 Better Bottle Bill hotline. And I believe
11 that the number will be on the stickers or
12 signs that are posted in each of the stores at
13 the point of sale.
14 In addition to that, this bill
15 allows for coordination between Ag & Markets.
16 As you know, they have about 150 to 200 folks
17 on the streets. I'll get the exact number
18 before the end of the night. And they will
19 also have enforcement authority as well. In
20 addition, this bill allows for local
21 governments to have enforcement of the Bottle
22 Bill as well. So you have three sets of eyes
23 working for enforcement -- which we don't have
24 now. Ag & Markets does not have enforcement
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1 cooperation with DEC. Local municipal
2 governments, whether cities or counties,
3 currently do not have enforcement authority.
4 And right now, if you go into any of those
5 stores, at the cash registers, unlike with
6 cigarettes and unlike with alcohol, there's no
7 signage that talks about the Bottle Bill of
8 Rights.
9 So I think that it's not perfect,
10 but the sentiment that has been raised by
11 people who are even passionately for the issue
12 and people who are hostilely opposed to it,
13 some of those issues have been addressed in
14 the bill.
15 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Madam
16 President, through you, if the Senator would
17 continue to yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
19 Senator Thompson, do you continue to yield?
20 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes,
21 absolutely.
22 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator
23 Thompson, in the original Bottle Bill, the one
24 that was amended in the process, the City of
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1 New York got an exemption for small stores
2 under 10,000 square feet. That exemption was
3 not given to similar-sized stores in the rest
4 of the state, on Long Island, upstate,
5 whatever. Has that been changed in the
6 current language?
7 SENATOR THOMPSON: Through you,
8 Madam Chair. Jeez, you should have wrote my
9 talking points for me.
10 Yes, Senator, that has been
11 addressed. In the amendment part of this
12 budget, another thing raised by people not
13 only in your conference but members of our
14 conference, statewide there will be a
15 10,0000-square-foot exemption in terms of you
16 can only bring, I believe, about 72 containers
17 at a time. Right?
18 So we have expanded that exemption
19 statewide as a result of the two hearings, in
20 addition to conversations and memos from
21 members on both sides of the aisle. So that
22 has been expanded statewide.
23 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Madam
24 President, I thank the Senator for his
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1 comments.
2 And I would just urge that we take
3 a hard look at this piece of legislation.
4 Because this piece, from all of the industry
5 that I talked to and all of the people that I
6 talked to tells me that it is going to hurt
7 the businesses. They're going to hurt the
8 bottling community, they're going to lose jobs
9 upstate, they're going to lose in the bottling
10 areas and you're going to lose in the
11 breweries that are up there. They're going to
12 stop expanding, and they're going to cut back
13 on other things.
14 So this is going to hurt jobs, it's
15 going to hurt the curbside recycling program.
16 And I think it's a problem that hasn't been
17 thought out carefully. I think that the
18 revenue stream is questionable on this one, at
19 best. It is a guesstimate at best, Senator.
20 I respect your concerns, I respect
21 your efforts. But I thank you for your
22 attention.
23 SENATOR THOMPSON: Just in
24 conclusion on the En Con budget, but also a
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1 couple of other things that I think that are
2 important to note on the Bottle Bill.
3 Number one, the issue of curbside
4 recycling. The State of New York, through the
5 EPF, is going to spend $10.8 million this year
6 on municipal recycling. And as many of us
7 know, volunteer recycling programs in some
8 areas of the state are better; in other areas,
9 they are not.
10 I am committed to work with
11 individuals to make sure that that
12 $10.8 million is better spent by
13 municipalities and local governments as it
14 relates to curbside recycling. I agree with
15 you, we've got to do a better job. But we've
16 been spending this money for many years, and
17 we have not gotten the desired results.
18 The last thing I believe is
19 important to note is about the 1982 issue. In
20 1982, everyone said, we were starting from
21 scratch. We had no infrastructure in place.
22 And they said that companies were going to
23 leave, people were going to lose their jobs.
24 And people came together, and they made it
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1 happen.
2 And I believe that this bill today
3 is a compromise bill. We tried to address
4 many of the issues. And as many of you can
5 tell, that we spent a lot of time carefully
6 thinking through some of the concerns.
7 People said to me, don't put a
8 48-ounce bottle of tomato juice or V-8 juice
9 on this list. All right, we said; I can
10 understand that. Somebody said don't put baby
11 formula on the list. We heard them. Somebody
12 said, well, I know we want to do sports drinks
13 and other ice teas and Snapples. A gentleman
14 came from New York City or Long Island and
15 said, "I know that Red Bull sells at a rapid
16 rate, but please, not this time. Can we do
17 that at another phase?"
18 So we heard a lot of concerns that
19 people have raised. All right? We have. But
20 at the same time, as we said in the process --
21 in public, through the hearings -- that we've
22 got to take a step. We've got to take a first
23 step.
24 And I believe that this is a first
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1 step, it's the right step. If it's good
2 enough for Connecticut, where Poland Spring is
3 located, it's good enough for New York, which
4 is the third-biggest state in the union.
5 Thank you.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
7 Senator Young.
8 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you, Madam
9 President.
10 I actually had a question for
11 Senator Aubertine, but I don't see him in the
12 chamber at this particular moment. So I'll be
13 able to discuss this with him tomorrow, I'm
14 sure.
15 But I do want to take this
16 opportunity to address a concern that Senator
17 Kruger brought up previously about the
18 $1 billion undesignated fund that's included
19 in this budget.
20 And I'd like to correct the chair
21 of Senate Finance about the definition of a
22 dry appropriation. A dry appropriation is an
23 item that's included in the budget that you're
24 not going to spend. It will not be spent.
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1 However, if you have an
2 undesignated fund and you will be expending
3 that money and the purpose is not lined out in
4 the budget and it will be spent at a later
5 time, it is in fact a slush fund.
6 Thank you, Madam President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
8 Senator Bonacic.
9 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you,
10 Madam President.
11 Will Senator Kruger just yield for
12 a quick question.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
14 Senator Kruger, do you yield?
15 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,
16 Madam President.
17 SENATOR BONACIC: I'd like to get
18 back to the Empire Zone, if I may.
19 It's my understanding that under
20 this budget proposal the local zone manager
21 will be eliminated and all decisions of future
22 financial assistance will be made by the
23 Empire State Development Corp. Is that
24 correct?
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1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through
2 you, Madam President, yes, that's true.
3 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you.
4 Thank you, Senator Kruger.
5 You can rest now. On the bill.
6 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Oh, that
7 was easy.
8 SENATOR BONACIC: I want you to
9 relax. You've been working hard tonight.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
11 Senator Bonacic, on the bill.
12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you,
13 Madam President.
14 SENATOR BONACIC: I just want to
15 share a couple of experiences about the Empire
16 Zone, if I may.
17 When this was implemented under
18 Governor Pataki, this was an economic tool to
19 try to help upstate. And what we found when
20 companies came in and filled out applications,
21 and they said in three years we're going to
22 create 800 jobs, let's say, or in five years,
23 in stages. And what happens is let's say they
24 only made 500 jobs; they came up short.
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1 But what happened was technology
2 became more efficient. And they used
3 technology to make their operations and bottom
4 line more successful, and they didn't need to
5 enhance those jobs. It doesn't mean that the
6 Empire Zone was not successful. It was very
7 successful, because we wouldn't have gotten
8 500 jobs in areas that were not doing well.
9 Now, when we discussed the Empire
10 Zones, as Senator Thompson did, and Senator
11 Stachowski, you can't analyze it just with the
12 mechanisms of how the zone is going to work.
13 You have to look at the total picture. And
14 what do I mean by that?
15 When Governor Paterson gave his
16 proposal of changing the rules from 15 to 1 to
17 20 to 1, retroactively, he basically said, to
18 corporations and small businesses, drop dead.
19 That's what he said. And the highest elected
20 official in the State of New York, that was
21 his message.
22 Now, Senator Stachowski stood up
23 here and he said, in speaking to Senator
24 Nozzolio, didn't we make it better, didn't we
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1 change, didn't we salvage the 15 to 1 but
2 prospectively the rules would be 20 to 1?
3 Isn't it better? He tried to get Senator
4 Nozzolio to say yes.
5 The way corporate America works,
6 the way small businesses work, they make --
7 first of all, let's talk about corporate
8 America. They're answerable to their
9 stockholders, and the bottom line is profit
10 and certainty when they plan.
11 Under this proposal, they don't
12 know what's going to happen in 15 months.
13 What does Senator Stachowski say? He says
14 there's going to be a better tomorrow. That's
15 why we made the day shorter, because we will
16 do something better for you.
17 How can corporation and small
18 business trust that policy when the Governor
19 has already said drop dead, when he's kept the
20 20-to-1 formula prospectively if a company
21 wants to expand and the rules are vague, when
22 the local zone guy is now eliminated, it's now
23 made by the Empire State Development for
24 future financial assistance that answers to
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1 Governor Paterson.
2 How can anyone say these are not
3 negative messages to small businesses and
4 corporations? And when we go here to try to
5 have credibility to small businesses and
6 corporations, are we not taxing them more?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
8 Senator Krueger, why do you rise?
9 SENATOR BONACIC: I will not -- I
10 will not -- Senator Krueger, I don't mean to
11 be disrespectful, but I'd like to finish my
12 thoughts.
13 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I didn't
14 even ask yet.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
16 I just asked her why she rose, and she --
17 SENATOR BONACIC: I hate to say
18 no to her, so I'm asking her not to.
19 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I will wait
20 to ask my question until Senator Bonacic is
21 done.
22 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you,
23 Senator Krueger. And I didn't miss my train
24 of thought, either, by you standing up.
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1 (Laughter.)
2 SENATOR BONACIC: When you
3 increase personal income taxes, don't you
4 think that's a message of economic destruction
5 to small businesses and corporations that are
6 interested in profit, that are interested in
7 bottom line to their stockholders? Don't you
8 think when you raise electric rates by
9 $600 million that's not economic destruction
10 messages to these companies? Don't you think
11 when you raise health insurance premiums by
12 $240 million that's not a negative message to
13 companies?
14 So to discuss Empire Zones without
15 discussing the total message, it's not
16 realistic. The Manhattan Institute alone
17 estimates that the PIT increase of the
18 personal income tax, that will be 15,000 jobs
19 lost, small businesses.
20 So I think Senator Nozzolio and
21 Senator Winner are absolutely correct. People
22 are going to vote with their feet. This is a
23 job-killer. And they're going to look to go
24 to more fertile pastures than the State of
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1 New York.
2 And I will say, in conclusion, when
3 the recovery comes -- and I hope to God it
4 comes sooner rather than later -- I believe
5 that the State of New York will lag in job
6 growth from the nation because of the budget
7 and the destructive policies and job-killing
8 policies we're doing in this legislation.
9 Thank you, Madam President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
11 Senator Liz Krueger.
12 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
13 Madam President. Would Senator Bonacic please
14 yield for a question?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
16 Senator Bonacic, do you yield?
17 SENATOR BONACIC: Absolutely.
18 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
19 Senator Bonacic.
20 So you referenced in your points
21 that this was a program started for upstate
22 New York. It's my understanding it was
23 actually started statewide and that it's gone
24 through a series of different changes and
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1 reforms over the course of history. Is that
2 correct?
3 SENATOR BONACIC: Yes, it's true.
4 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
5 And Senator -- I'm sorry, through
6 you, Madam President, if Senator Bonacic would
7 continue to yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
9 Do you continue to yield, Senator?
10 SENATOR BONACIC: I will. And
11 you can keep asking as many questions as you
12 like without going the chair.
13 SENATOR L. KRUEGER: No, we love
14 the etiquette. Thank you so much.
15 SENATOR BONACIC: Okay.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
17 We need the protocol.
18 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: We need the
19 president to feel she has a role here. Excuse
20 me.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
22 It's protocol.
23 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
24 Senator Bonacic, are you familiar
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1 with the series that the Syracuse
2 Post-Standard has done on exploitation of the
3 Empire Zone program by some?
4 SENATOR BONACIC: I have no clue
5 what that newspaper said. I don't usually pay
6 attention to newspapers.
7 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Madam
8 President, if the Senator would continue to
9 yield.
10 SENATOR BONACIC: I will.
11 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
12 Well, I enjoy a good newspaper, and
13 I think the Syracuse Post-Standard is a
14 particularly good one. But they've done a
15 series of articles about problems with the
16 Empire Zones. And in fact, out of some of the
17 findings of the reports, we did some reforms
18 to Empire Zones, in fact, when your side of
19 the aisle was the majority here.
20 And you referenced tonight concerns
21 that we were trying to destroy the program,
22 which I don't agree with. I believe we have
23 to reform the program. But you referenced
24 that the proposal in this bill would destroy
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1 the program.
2 And do you know that the changes to
3 the Empire Zone in this bill are the
4 following: To cut out shirt-changers from
5 being allowed to take tax deductions under
6 this law, which means the "shirt-changers"
7 expression for companies that don't create new
8 jobs but change their corporate title in order
9 to appear to have created jobs. And that's
10 one of the proposals of change to the Empire
11 Zone in this law.
12 Are you comfortable with allowing
13 companies that haven't created any new jobs
14 and didn't even try to create new jobs, just
15 changed their names to be able to continue to
16 get Empire Zone credits?
17 SENATOR BONACIC: Through you,
18 Madam President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
20 Senator.
21 SENATOR BONACIC: First of all, I
22 think there is an order process through Tax &
23 Finance that will take advantage or root out
24 those that are not performing up to the
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1 benchmarks of the Empire Zone.
2 But when I spoke of the Empire
3 Zone, I spoke about an economic tool that
4 generally has been successful and is worth
5 keeping. Now, you if want to tinker with the
6 edges but keep the substance and the impact of
7 the Empire Zone, then I say we're in
8 agreement. But if you pick out one company or
9 one reform and say that's the reason to kill
10 the Empire Zone, I say that it's an overkill
11 and we've gone too far.
12 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Madam
13 President, if through you the Senator will
14 continue to yield.
15 SENATOR BONACIC: I will.
16 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you.
17 So we discussed one of the proposed
18 changes in the Empire Zone program, which is
19 companies that did not create jobs but changed
20 their names. The second piece of this
21 proposal in the bill tonight is to require
22 that a business have a cost-benefit ratio of
23 more than 1 to 1 in order to be able to
24 participate in the program.
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1 That simply means if a company's
2 costs for a job are greater to the state than
3 the actual value of the job, then we would
4 actually be able to say no, you're costing the
5 state more than you've even produced in jobs.
6 Do you think that that's wrong to
7 say to the companies not 20-to-1 ratio, not
8 15-to-1 ratio, not 10-to-1 ratio, not 5-to-1
9 ratio, but this proposal in this bill tonight
10 is only a less than 1-to-1 ratio, we're trying
11 to be able to remove them from the program?
12 What do you think of that, sir?
13 SENATOR BONACIC: Through you,
14 Madam President. The 1-to-1 ratio, as I
15 understand it, applies to the companies
16 retroactively since the Empire Zone was cited.
17 And it means simply this. If they have spent
18 more in private benefits, $1.10 versus $1 of
19 public benefits, they will not be certified.
20 That was a change that was made that was
21 better than the Governor's proposal of 20 to
22 1. That's a good thing. That portion is a
23 good thing.
24 But, Madam President, I would like
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1 to ask Senator Krueger a question, if she will
2 yield to a question.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
4 Senator Krueger, do you yield?
5 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I'd be
6 happy to yield to a question, Senator.
7 SENATOR BONACIC: Senator
8 Krueger, do you think when we increase the tax
9 rates on businesses and do you agree that if
10 we raise the electric surcharges on business
11 and do you believe if we increase the cost of
12 health insurance premiums on business that
13 that will have a negative effect on the
14 creation of jobs, whether they're in the
15 Empire Zone or not, whether it's retroactive
16 or prospective? What do you think about that?
17 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I think
18 that taxes always have an impact on economic
19 activity, that there are taxes that do more
20 harm to business and taxes that do less harm
21 to business.
22 But what I'm sure of is that if you
23 want to have a state that has a business
24 community and that thrives in the 21st
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1 century, you have to make sure that your
2 population is well educated so that they can
3 be the workers for the businesses. You have
4 to make sure that you have a public
5 infrastructure so that people can move around
6 the state. You have to make sure that you
7 have quality healthcare; otherwise, no one
8 will be interested in living in the state.
9 And to oversimplify, I sometimes
10 explain myself, when I talk about taxation and
11 the realities of the role of government, is if
12 you're a business and you want to hire people
13 to work in your business, you have to make
14 sure that they have the right education level
15 and can get to where you have your jobs.
16 And if you're a business that's
17 selling something -- and all businesses are
18 selling something -- you have to make sure
19 that people can earn enough in their jobs to
20 be able to buy whatever you're trying to sell.
21 So it's a broad question with a
22 broad answer. But again, to get to Empire
23 Zones -- and maybe I'll just speak on the bill
24 rather than ask you an additional question
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1 unless you have a question for me first.
2 SENATOR BONACIC: I do.
3 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Madam
4 President, I'm sorry, that should have gone
5 through you.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
7 Senator Bonacic, do you have a question for
8 Senator Krueger?
9 SENATOR BONACIC: Will Senator
10 Krueger continue to yield to another question?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
12 Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?
13 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, I'd be
14 happy to, Senator Bonacic.
15 SENATOR BONACIC: Do you think if
16 government policies tax more and take capital
17 away from small businesses and corporations
18 that that will lead to more jobs or they will
19 have less money to create new jobs?
20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: No, I think
21 it's a catch-22. As I've explained, that you
22 have to make sure that you're balancing the
23 public's need for an operating government and
24 a quality of life in the state in order to be
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1 a win for the businesses.
2 And no, you of course want to try
3 to keep your tax rate as minimal as possible
4 in relationship to your cost.
5 But I think in terms of an Empire
6 Zone, another factor that's critically
7 important for people to understand, this isn't
8 taxing businesses. In an Empire Zone, we are
9 making a decision -- we the Legislature,
10 through the legislation we pass -- to be
11 selectively not taxing businesses. So in an
12 Empire Zone, they're getting to reduce their
13 taxes compared to another business.
14 So if Senator Kruger's widget
15 company is physically in Ulster County and
16 Senator Bonacic's widget company is in Orange
17 County, and Kruger's widgets are made in an
18 Empire Zone and Bonacic widgets are not, the
19 reality is we are favoring Senator Kruger's
20 widgets over Senator Bonacic's widgets.
21 So it's a dual responsibility of
22 government. One, we're not collecting the tax
23 revenue, which means, to follow through on
24 another question, we have less money to pay
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1 for schools that people were concerned about,
2 to pay for highways that people were concerned
3 about, to pay for the environment that people
4 were concerned about, because we chose not to
5 tax Senator Kruger's widgets. So that's a
6 heavy responsibility.
7 And I think we should be very
8 careful about how we select to give people tax
9 breaks over other people or other companies.
10 So I have an equity concern, which is why I'm
11 very comfortable with putting a limit that
12 shirt-changing companies shouldn't get these
13 tax deductions and companies that can't even
14 make a 1-to-1 economic ratio shouldn't get
15 these special deals.
16 And then, two, there's the
17 fundamental question of equity, which I think
18 is hard to deal with in the context of Empire
19 Zones. Which means because of physically
20 where I'm located, I might get a major
21 advantage over your company and we might both
22 make perfectly good, quality widgets.
23 And so there are hard questions
24 with the Empire Zone that are much broader
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1 than just what level of tax do you charge a
2 company. Because in fact in this discussion,
3 it's what level of tax deductions do we give.
4 And of course, as we know, the Empire Zone
5 program is costing the people of New York
6 $600, $700, $800 million a year.
7 The proposed changes in this bill I
8 hope we will pass soon is only $90 million in
9 savings. And there's quite a bit of
10 flexibility in it, because even under those
11 two changes it allows the DED to make a
12 decision to allow a company to continue in the
13 program even if they don't appear to meet the
14 standards. And in fact, the Senate policy in
15 this bill tonight, as compared to the
16 Executive's original proposal, is saving 8,180
17 companies from losing their Empire Zone
18 status.
19 And so I think we made a very good
20 deal on the Empire Zones this year. We
21 allowed almost 8200 companies to remain in the
22 program. We put some very reasonable limits
23 on the type of companies that would no longer
24 be able to participate. We are not
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1 retroactively asking for the money back, to
2 also answer a question of yours. So companies
3 who may have been more effective in meeting
4 our standards earlier, they're not being asked
5 to give the money back.
6 So actually I think we are making a
7 great deal of progress with Empire Zones this
8 year. And while there may be lots of
9 discussions about different parts of the bill,
10 I would be very surprised if anyone would want
11 to vote against this section of the bill
12 tonight.
13 Thank you.
14 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you,
15 Senator Krueger.
16 Continuing on the bill.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:
18 Senator Bonacic, on the bill.
19 SENATOR BONACIC: A lot of
20 Senator Krueger's remarks, again, brought the
21 conversation solely to the companies in the
22 Empire Zones and those that are not concerning
23 widgets. And that's really a distraction.
24 Because what we have said is that we are
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1 competing now. We are competing in a global
2 economy, we are competing with neighboring
3 states. And we have to stay competitive.
4 I think we have probably one of the
5 highest tax rates in the nation, and it's
6 going to get worse. And all of these efforts
7 of raising electric rates, raising health
8 insurance policies, raising taxes, making the
9 Empire Zone more strict, these are negative
10 messages to small businesses and corporations.
11 And they have mobility, and they will vote
12 with their feet. So the point that I'm making
13 is this is an anti-business, job-killing
14 budget.
15 Thank you, Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
17 you, Senator Bonacic.
18 Are there any other Senators who
19 wish to speak on the bill?
20 Seeing none, the debate is closed.
21 The Secretary will ring the bells.
22 I ask all Senators to come to the chamber to
23 cast their votes.
24 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
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1 would request a slow roll call on this bill,
2 please.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: A slow
4 roll call has been requested. The requisite
5 five Senators have stood, so we will proceed
6 with the slow roll call.
7 The Secretary will read the last
8 section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: A slow
12 roll call has been called for. Seeing that
13 five Senators have risen, the Secretary will
14 call the roll slowly.
15 And I ask that Senators who wish to
16 explain their vote be mindful of the
17 two-minute rule.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Adams.
19 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Addabbo.
21 SENATOR ADDABBO: Yes.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi.
23 SENATOR ALESI: No.
24 THE SECRETARY: Senator
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1 Aubertine.
2 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bonacic.
4 SENATOR BONACIC: No.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Breslin.
6 SENATOR BRESLIN: Yes.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senator
8 DeFrancisco.
9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Diaz.
11 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Dilan.
13 (No response.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Duane.
15 SENATOR DUANE: Yes.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada.
17 SENATOR ESPADA: Yes.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley.
19 SENATOR FARLEY: No.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Flanagan.
21 SENATOR FLANAGAN: No.
22 (Standing ovation as Senator
23 Hassell-Thompson enters the chamber.)
24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
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1 Secretary will continue to call the roll
2 slowly.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Foley.
4 SENATOR FOLEY: Aye.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator
6 Fuschillo.
7 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: No.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Golden.
9 SENATOR GOLDEN: No.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Griffo.
11 SENATOR GRIFFO: No.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon.
13 SENATOR HANNON: No.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator
15 Hassell-Thompson.
16 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Here,
17 and yes.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Huntley.
19 SENATOR HUNTLEY: Yes.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator C.
21 Johnson.
22 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Yes.
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator O.
24 Johnson.
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1 SENATOR OWEN JOHNSON: No.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Klein.
3 SENATOR KLEIN: Yes.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator
5 L. Krueger.
6 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senator C.
8 Kruger.
9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lanza.
11 SENATOR LANZA: No.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin.
13 SENATOR LARKIN: No.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle.
15 SENATOR LaVALLE: No.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell.
17 SENATOR LEIBELL: No.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous.
19 SENATOR LIBOUS: No.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Little.
21 SENATOR LITTLE: No.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator
23 Marcellino.
24 SENATOR MARCELLINO: No.
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1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz.
2 SENATOR MAZIARZ: No.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator McDonald.
4 SENATOR McDONALD: No.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator
6 Monserrate.
7 SENATOR MONSERRATE: Aye.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator
9 Montgomery.
10 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Morahan.
12 SENATOR MORAHAN: No.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nozzolio.
14 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato.
16 SENATOR ONORATO: Yes.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator
18 Oppenheimer.
19 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Aye.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan.
21 SENATOR PADAVAN: No.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Parker.
23 SENATOR PARKER: Aye.
24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Perkins.
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1 SENATOR PERKINS: Aye.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator
3 Ranzenhofer.
4 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: No.
5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Robach.
6 SENATOR ROBACH: No.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland.
8 SENATOR SALAND: No.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sampson.
10 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Savino.
12 SENATOR SAVINO: Yes.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator
14 Schneiderman.
15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Serrano.
17 SENATOR SERRANO: Yes.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward.
19 SENATOR SEWARD: No.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos.
21 (Senator Skelos was recorded in the
22 negative.)
23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith.
24 (Senator Smith was recorded in the
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1 affirmative.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Squadron.
3 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator
5 Stachowski.
6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky.
8 SENATOR STAVISKY: Aye.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator
10 Stewart-Cousins.
11 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Yes.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Thompson.
13 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Valesky.
15 SENATOR VALESKY: Aye.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker.
17 SENATOR VOLKER: No.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Winner.
19 SENATOR WINNER: No.
20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Young.
21 SENATOR YOUNG: No.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
23 Secretary will call the absentees.
24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Dilan.
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1 SENATOR DILAN: I'm here, and
2 it's yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
4 Secretary will announce the results.
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 32. Nays,
6 30.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
8 bill is passed.
9 Senator Klein.
10 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, I
11 move that we adjourn until Wednesday,
12 April 1st, at 9:30.
13 And I want to tell my colleagues on
14 both sides of the aisle we're going to be
15 doing a lot of work to pass our budget
16 tomorrow, as well as West Point Day, so please
17 be on time.
18 I'd also now like to call on my
19 colleague Senator Libous for his announcement.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
21 Senator Libous.
22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
23 Senator Klein.
24 Mr. President, there will be a
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1 Republican conference tomorrow morning at 9:15
2 sharp.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: A
4 Republican conference at 9:15 tomorrow.
5 On a motion by Senator Klein, the
6 Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow,
7 April 1st, at 9:30 a.m.
8 (Whereupon, at 10:00 p.m., the
9 Senate adjourned.)
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