Regular Session - March 31, 2009

                                                            1861



         1                 NEW YORK STATE SENATE

         2

         3

         4                THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

         5

         6

         7

         8

         9                   ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                    March 31, 2009

        11                      11:27 a.m.

        12

        13

        14                    REGULAR SESSION

        15

        16

        17

        18  SENATOR DAVID J. VALESKY, Acting President

        19  ANGELO J. APONTE, Secretary

        20

        21

        22

        23

        24



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         1                 P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         3       Senate will please come to order.

         4                  I ask everyone present to please

         5       rise and recite with me the Pledge of

         6       Allegiance.

         7                  (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

         8       the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    In the

        10       absence of clergy, may we bow our heads in a

        11       moment of silence.

        12                  (Whereupon, the assemblage

        13       respected a moment of silence.)

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        15       reading of the Journal.

        16                  The Secretary will read.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

        18       Monday, March 30, the Senate met pursuant to

        19       adjournment.  The Journal of Sunday, March 29,

        20       was read and approved.  On motion, Senate

        21       adjourned.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        23       Without objection, the Journal stands approved

        24       as read.



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         1                  Presentation of petitions.

         2                  Messages from the Assembly.

         3                  Messages from the Governor.

         4                  Reports of standing committees.

         5                  Reports of select committees.

         6                  Communications and reports from

         7       state officers.

         8                  Motions and resolutions.

         9                  Senator Klein.

        10                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President,

        11       Senator Foley has a resolution at the desk.  I

        12       ask that the title of the resolution be read,

        13       move for its immediate adoption, and allow

        14       Senator Foley to speak on the resolution.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        16       Secretary will read.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator Foley,

        18       Resolution Number 973, memorializing Governor

        19       David A. Paterson to declare April 2009 as

        20       Financial Literacy Month in the State of

        21       New York.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        23       Senator Foley, on the resolution.

        24                  SENATOR FOLEY:    Thank you,



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         1       Mr. President.

         2                  This resolution designates

         3       April 2009 as Financial Literacy Month and

         4       highlights the important of financial literacy

         5       and encourages all New Yorkers to increase

         6       their understanding of saving, investing, and

         7       credit choices.

         8                  Financial literacy empowers

         9       New Yorkers to make wise financial decisions.

        10       New York State consumers face many choices

        11       which affect their financial future.  Every

        12       day, consumers conduct some type of financial

        13       transaction that requires well-informed and

        14       educated decision-making, whether it has to do

        15       with reconciling credit card statements,

        16       securing affordable financing for a new or

        17       used car, saving for their children's college

        18       education and retirement, or starting a family

        19       business.

        20                  As a statewide public awareness

        21       effort, Financial Literacy Month is a perfect

        22       opportunity for businesses and organizations

        23       to show their current financial literacy

        24       efforts and to become involved in this



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         1       important effort to make financial literacy

         2       education a priority throughout our state.

         3                  Businesses and organizations can

         4       partner together or individually to offer free

         5       workshops, classes and other types of

         6       community events.  They can also contribute

         7       resources to facilitate and promote events to

         8       help consumers learn to manage their personal

         9       finances.

        10                  And just take this statistic alone,

        11       Mr. President.  Last year the U.S. consumer

        12       debt totaled $2.57 trillion, and credit card

        13       debt alone exceeded $976 billion.  And during

        14       the third quarter of 2008, over 14 percent of

        15       disposable personal income went towards paying

        16       the interest on personal debt.

        17                  I believe, Mr. President, that many

        18       of the problems that have been brought to my

        19       committee, as chair of the Banking Committee,

        20       could be avoided if people had a more sound

        21       financial education.  Improved financial

        22       literacy across New York State not only would

        23       help people create a more solid financial

        24       situation for themselves and for their



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         1       families, it will also reduce the number of

         2       issues that necessitate legislative or

         3       regulatory solutions.

         4                  I would say, in closing, that this

         5       particular memorializing resolution declaring

         6       April Financial Literacy Month has been a

         7       long-held tradition as to whomever the chair

         8       of Banking is.  In the past 20 years, ranking

         9       member and former chair Senator Hugh Farley

        10       has sponsored this resolution.  He cosponsors

        11       the resolution with me today, signifying a

        12       bipartisan approach to something that's very,

        13       very important to our state and to our

        14       country, the absolute imperative and need to

        15       improve our financial literacy throughout our

        16       state to help our citizens with their

        17       finances.

        18                  And this is one way that we can

        19       help, by highlighting the fact that April is

        20       Financial Literacy Month, and to help, working

        21       with those in the private sector, along with

        22       us in the public sector, to empower our

        23       New York State residents through helping them

        24       with such issues as how to, for instance,



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         1       better prepare their own personal finances.

         2                  So it's a very important issue,

         3       Mr. Chairman, and I look forward to working in

         4       a bipartisan fashion in these remaining months

         5       to help our New York State citizens with their

         6       finances.

         7                  Thank you very much.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank

         9       you, Senator Foley.

        10                  Senator Klein, on the resolution.

        11                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Thank you,

        12       Mr. President.

        13                  I want to praise my colleague, the

        14       chairman of the Banking Committee, Senator

        15       Brian Foley, for bringing up this resolution

        16       today on Financial Literacy Month.  Clearly

        17       everyone knows the problems we've seen because

        18       of the subprime lending crisis.  And

        19       unfortunately, I'm always bothered when I

        20       watch some of the talking heads on some of the

        21       business channels or read some of the

        22       financial journals blaming the poor homeowner

        23       who got into a mortgage they couldn't afford.

        24                  I think a lot of that could have



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         1       been prevented if we had education

         2       requirements.  I know my colleague Senator

         3       Sampson has a piece of legislation which

         4       hopefully we're going to pass quickly, because

         5       one of the things I think we need to do is be

         6       very clear.  The subprime lending crisis was

         7       not caused by the small first-time homeowner;

         8       it was caused by people who really should have

         9       known better than the mortgage that people

        10       were entering into was over their head and

        11       very, very complicated.

        12                  I think one of the things that I

        13       learned, in having hearings all over the state

        14       on this issue, is time and time again you had

        15       people who didn't really know the intricacies

        16       of the mortgage process.  Most lawyers, when

        17       they go to a closing, don't always know the

        18       intricacies of the mortgage process.

        19                  So I think we have to do a lot more

        20       to make sure that when someone goes to

        21       purchase a home they know the specifics of the

        22       deal they're getting into.

        23                  It's also very interesting, one of

        24       the things that we saw last year is that



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         1       53 percent of the people who lost their homes

         2       due to foreclosure had absolutely no contact

         3       with their lending institution.  So there was

         4       certainly no way that the individual could

         5       modify their mortgage or really learn how to

         6       improve the terms they got into.

         7                  So again, I want to praise Senator

         8       Foley.  Besides actually recognizing Financial

         9       Literacy Month, I know we have to do a lot

        10       more to make sure it becomes statute and

        11       protect homeowners and really protect anyone

        12       to make sure they know what they bargained

        13       for.

        14                  Again, I thank Senator Foley.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank

        16       you, Senator Klein.

        17                  Are there any other Senators who

        18       wish to be heard on the resolution?

        19                  Seeing none, the question is on the

        20       resolution.  All in favor signify by saying

        21       aye.

        22                  (Response of "Aye.")

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        24       Opposed, nay.



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         1                  (No response.)

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         3       resolution is adopted.

         4                  Senator Foley has requested that

         5       the resolution be open for cosponsorship.  Any

         6       member wishing not to cosponsor the resolution

         7       should so inform the desk.

         8                  Senator Klein.

         9                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President,

        10       Senator Squadron has a resolution at the desk.

        11       I ask that the title be read and move for its

        12       immediate adoption and give Senator Squadron

        13       the opportunity to speak on the said

        14       resolution.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        16       Secretary will read.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

        18       Squadron, Legislative Resolution Number 1131,

        19       mourning the death of Robert S. Guskind,

        20       talented, journalist, author, photographer

        21       editor and devoted member of his community.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        23       Senator Squadron, on the resolution.

        24                  SENATOR SQUADRON:    Thank you,



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         1       Mr. President.

         2                  I rise to honor the life and the

         3       work of Robert S. Guskind, who died just a

         4       couple of weeks ago, tragically, at the age of

         5       50.  Bob Guskind was a member of the Carroll

         6       Gardens community and a leader in the entire

         7       Brooklyn community.  He was a journalist who

         8       worked at the Washington Post, at the National 

         9       Journal, wrote a book, and also, in recent

        10       years, was a blogger.  He took this new form

        11       of communication and really took it to a new

        12       level.

        13                  Blogs in parts of Brooklyn are

        14       about as active and there are about as many of

        15       them as anywhere in the country.  And Bob

        16       Guskind's blog, Gowanus Lounge, was as good as

        17       any blog certainly in the Borough of Brooklyn

        18       and I would say anywhere in our nation.

        19                  What he did through this blog was

        20       he was able to take community activism, take

        21       community concerns and describe them, distill

        22       them, and distribute them in ways that never

        23       could have happened without him.  He did it

        24       with incredible wit, he did it with



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         1       incisiveness.  And on any issue, whether it

         2       was the building development across the street

         3       from my own home or the rezoning of the entire

         4       Gowanus neighborhood or the broader question

         5       of what's happening as Brooklyn changes so

         6       quickly, he was able to bring to light and

         7       bring images and words that brought the

         8       community together even when we disagreed with

         9       him.

        10                  He often wasn't gentle in his

        11       writing; he was often brutal.  He was always

        12       interesting and brought incredible value to

        13       the issues that matter throughout Brooklyn.

        14       In fact, his blog was so impressive that he

        15       was hired by Curbed of New York City, one of

        16       the biggest blogs in the entire City of

        17       New York, to write on neighborhood issues, to

        18       write on questions of development and growth.

        19                  I didn't always agree with Bob

        20       Guskind, and he didn't always agree with me.

        21       But the fact that Gowanus Lounge existed, the

        22       fact that he was able to bring his perspective

        23       to Curbed, is something that has made me a

        24       better public servant, has made my community



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         1       stronger, has made the entire Brooklyn

         2       community more educated and more empowered.

         3                  And his loss is a great loss for

         4       all of us in Brooklyn.  I think it's a great

         5       loss also for the expanding and significant

         6       blogosphere.  You know, he mastered this, he

         7       mastered this form early on.  And whether it

         8       was releasing plans that we never would have

         9       seen or writing an essay that moved all of us,

        10       we're going to miss him sorely.

        11                  So I wanted to take a moment for

        12       this body to pause and honor the life and the

        13       work of Bob Guskind, what he brought to all of

        14       us, and the gap that we're now going to have

        15       to fill as a community and as blogosphere

        16       overall.

        17                  Thank you very much.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank

        19       you, Senator Squadron.

        20                  Are there any other Senators who

        21       wish to be heard?

        22                  Seeing none, the question is on the

        23       resolution.  All in favor signify by saying

        24       aye.



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         1                  (Response of "Aye.")

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         3       Opposed, nay.

         4                  (No response.)

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         6       resolution is adopted.

         7                  And the Senate, in passing the

         8       resolution, mourns the death of Robert S.

         9       Guskind.

        10                  Senator Squadron has also asked

        11       that this resolution be open for

        12       cosponsorship.  Any member not willing to

        13       cosponsor the resolution should inform the

        14       desk.

        15                  Senator Klein.

        16                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President,

        17       Senator McDonald has a resolution at the desk.

        18       I ask that the resolution be read in its

        19       entirety and move for its immediate adoption.

        20                  I would ask Senator McDonald to

        21       speak on the resolution, but as you can see,

        22       Senator McDonald is not here.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        24       Secretary will read.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

         2       McDonald, Legislative Resolution Number 870,

         3       commemorating the 32nd Annual South Glens

         4       Falls High School Marathon Dance.

         5                  "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this

         6       Legislative Body to recognize and pay tribute

         7       to those young people within the great Empire

         8       State who have made strong contributions to

         9       their communities and who serve as role models

        10       for their peers; and

        11                  "WHEREAS, Attendant to such

        12       concern, and in full accord with its

        13       longstanding traditions, this Legislative Body

        14       is justly proud to commemorate the 32nd Annual

        15       South Glens Falls High School Marathon Dance;

        16       and

        17                  "WHEREAS, A tradition in the

        18       community, the South Glens Falls High School

        19       Marathon Dance began in 1978, when about

        20       40 dancers raised money for the Moreau

        21       Emergency Squad.  This year, there were 701

        22       dancers and over 200 community volunteers who

        23       supplied food, prizes and services; and

        24                  "WHEREAS, The four student cochairs



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         1       of the 32nd Annual South Glens Falls High

         2       School Marathon Dance were seniors Taylor

         3       Bulman, Brycen Waters and Nicole Valastro, and

         4       sophomore Kelly McFarlane.  They were advised

         5       by faculty members Jody Sheldon and Tom Myott

         6       and supported by Superintendent Dr. James

         7       McCarthy; and

         8                  "WHEREAS, The theme of the 32nd

         9       South Glens Falls High School Marathon Dance

        10       was 'Marathon is out of this world,' and a new

        11       record of over $260,000 was raised for

        12       22 recipients, including the MD Anderson

        13       Cancer Center in Houston, Texas, where retired

        14       teacher Mike Nolan is being treated, pushing

        15       the total raised by the event to over

        16       $2 million; and

        17                  "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this

        18       Legislative Body that when young people of

        19       such noble aims and accomplishments are

        20       brought to our attention, they should be

        21       celebrated and recognized by all the citizens

        22       of the great State of New York; and

        23                  "WHEREAS, In light of their

        24       commitment, dedication, and successful



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         1       efforts, it is the sense of this Legislative

         2       Body to extend its highest commendation to

         3       South Glens Falls High School and all of the

         4       participants at its 32nd Annual Marathon

         5       Dance; now, therefore, be it

         6                  "RESOLVED, That this Legislative

         7       Body pause in its deliberations to commemorate

         8       the 32nd Annual South Glens Falls High School

         9       Marathon Dance; and be it further

        10                  "RESOLVED, That a copy of this

        11       resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

        12       to South Glens Falls High School."

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        14       question is on the resolution.  All in favor

        15       signify by saying aye.

        16                  (Response of "Aye.")

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        18       Opposed, nay.

        19                  (No response.)

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        21       resolution is adopted.

        22                  Senator Klein.

        23                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, as

        24       you know, we're going to pass our budget



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         1       today, an on-time budget.  We are waiting for

         2       our colleagues on the other side of the aisle.

         3       So until then, can we please stand at ease.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         5       Senate will stand at ease.

         6                  (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

         7       ease at 11:42 a.m.)

         8                  (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

         9       at 1:38 p.m.)

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        11       Senator Klein.

        12                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President,

        13       can we stand at ease until 6:00 p.m. this

        14       evening, please.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        16       Senate will stand at ease until 6:00 p.m.

        17                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Excuse me,

        18       Mr. President.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        20       Senator Klein.

        21                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Can we stand at

        22       ease until 3 o'clock.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        24       Senate will stand at ease until 3:00 p.m.



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         1                  (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

         2       ease at 1:39 p.m.)

         3                  (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

         4       at 3:15 p.m.)

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         6       Senate will now return to the order of motions

         7       and resolutions.

         8                  Senator Klein.

         9                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President,

        10       may we at this time take up Senator

        11       Montgomery's resolution.  I ask that the title

        12       be read and move for its immediate adoption,

        13       and give Senator Montgomery the opportunity to

        14       speak on the said resolution.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        16       Secretary will read.

        17                  Could we have some quiet in the

        18       chamber, please, so that we can hear the

        19       Secretary read the resolution.

        20                  The Secretary will read.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

        22       Montgomery, Legislative Resolution Number

        23       1132, honoring Lynn Nottage for her

        24       outstanding play Ruined, which just completed



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         1       a successful run at the Manhattan Theatre

         2       Club.

         3                  "WHEREAS, The arts, in whatever

         4       form depicted, are central to human

         5       expression.  They are truly a universal

         6       language, and their contribution to the

         7       development of friendship and understanding

         8       among all peoples cannot be overestimated; and

         9                  "WHEREAS, The history, the

        10       heritage, and the lives of the people of all

        11       countries and all cultures are portrayed in

        12       their music, dance and literature.  The art

        13       and the act of sharing them enriches us

        14       altogether; and

        15                  "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this

        16       Legislative Body to commend those individuals

        17       of historic and artistic significance whose

        18       creative talents have contributed to the

        19       cultural enrichment of our communities and our

        20       nation; and

        21                  "WHEREAS, Attendant to such

        22       concern, and in full accord with its

        23       longstanding traditions, this Legislative Body

        24       is justly proud to honor Lynn Nottage for her



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         1       outstanding play Ruined, which just completed

         2       a successful run at the Manhattan Theatre

         3       Club; and

         4                  "WHEREAS, A world premiere

         5       coproduction with the Goodman Theater, Ruined

         6       began previews at the Manhattan Theatre Club

         7       on January 21, 2009, and ran through March 29,

         8       2009; and

         9                  "WHEREAS, Set in a small town in

        10       the Democratic Republic of Congo, Ruined

        11       follows a shrewd businesswoman, Mama Nadi, and

        12       the women she protects and profits from in a

        13       land torn apart by civil war; and

        14                  "WHEREAS, Lynn Nottage is a

        15       playwright from Brooklyn, New York, whose

        16       other work includes 'Intimate Apparel,'

        17       'Fabulation, or the Re-Education of Undine,'

        18       'Crumbs from the Table of Joy,' and 'Las

        19       Meninas,' which have been produced and

        20       developed at theaters both nationally and

        21       internationally; and

        22                  "WHEREAS, The quintessential

        23       artist, Lynn Nottage has been the recipient of

        24       a multitude of awards, including the 2007



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         1       MacArthur Genius Award, an Obie Award for

         2       playwriting in 2005, the New York Drama

         3       Critics' Circle Award for Best Play, the John

         4       Gassner Award for Best Playwright, the Outer

         5       Critic Circle Award for Best Play, and the

         6       American Theatre Critics/Steinberg New Play

         7       Award in 2004; and

         8                  "WHEREAS, In addition, Lynn Nottage

         9       was awarded a 2007 Lucille Lortel Foundation

        10       Fellowship, a 2005 Guggenheim Fellowship, the

        11       National Black Theatre Festival August Wilson

        12       Playwriting Award and the 2004 PEN/Laura Pels

        13       Award for Drama; and

        14                  "WHEREAS, A recent graduate of New

        15       Dramatists, Lynn Nottage is also a graduate of

        16       Brown University and the Yale School of Drama,

        17       where she is currently a visiting lecturer.

        18       Among her most recent publications are

        19       Intimate Apparel and Fabulation and an

        20       anthology of her plays, Crumbs from the Table 

        21       of Joy and Other Plays; and

        22                  "WHEREAS, This Legislative Body

        23       recognizes the importance of the performing

        24       arts, which act to inspire, enlighten, and



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         1       unify people from all cultural backgrounds

         2       through the transcendent power of human

         3       expression; and

         4                  "WHEREAS, It is most fitting that

         5       we take time to celebrate the arts of our

         6       nation, to honor our artists, and to express

         7       our appreciation to everyone who patronizes

         8       the arts.  As we celebrate the arts, we

         9       celebrate and give thanks to our American

        10       freedom, the only atmosphere in which artists

        11       can truly create and in which art is truly the

        12       expression of the soul; now, therefore, be it

        13                  "RESOLVED, That this Legislative

        14       Body pause in its deliberations to honor Lynn

        15       Nottage for her outstanding play Ruined, which

        16       just completed a successful recent at the

        17       Manhattan Theatre Club, and wish her continued

        18       success in all her future endeavors; and be it

        19       further

        20                  "RESOLVED, That a copy of this

        21       resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

        22       to Lynn Nottage."

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        24       Senator Montgomery, on the resolution.



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         1                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, thank

         2       you, Mr. President.

         3                  We are really honored, I feel

         4       honored today.  This is the last day of

         5       Women's History Month, and this is the last

         6       woman that we are going to be honoring today.

         7       And I'm very happy that she is here.

         8                  She is a constituent of mine, she's

         9       a friend of mine, the daughter of a very good

        10       friend and sister of mine.  But more than

        11       that, she now belongs to the whole State of

        12       New York.  She is a playwright of note and has

        13       received many honors, including her

        14       designation as one of the famous MacArthur

        15       awardees for her genius in the arts in the

        16       year 2007.

        17                  Her plays have been produced

        18       throughout the U.S. and Europe at such venues

        19       as the Second Stage Theater in New York, the

        20       Tricycle Theater in London, and the

        21       Steppenwolf Theater in Chicago.

        22                  Currently her play, the latest

        23       play, Ruined, is now playing at the Manhattan

        24       Center, and is one that has received any



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         1       number of rave reviews, including in the

         2       New York Times, the Daily News, and other

         3       papers.

         4                  I want to just take a moment to say

         5       that this is a young woman who has already,

         6       even though she's not -- I don't even consider

         7       her yet in her prime -- she has been so

         8       recognized as -- for an example, one of her

         9       plays, which was called Intimate Apparel, it

        10       had won so many awards, including the New York

        11       Drama Critics Circle Award, Best Play; Outer

        12       Critics Circle Award, Best Play; the PEN/Laura

        13       Pels Foundation Award; the American Theatre

        14       Critics Association Francesca Primus Award,

        15       Best Play; Steinberg New York Play Award;

        16       AUDELCO Dramatic Production of the Year.

        17                  All of these noted awards were --

        18       she was recipient of these awards because of

        19       her play Intimate Apparel.  And she is on her

        20       way to receiving any number of accolades and

        21       awards, including ours here today, for her

        22       latest play, Ruined.

        23                  Now, Ruined is a play which also

        24       acknowledges the pain and suffering that women



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         1       receive at the hands of war.  It takes place

         2       in the Congo, and it is a dramatic

         3       representation of what happens in particular

         4       to women who have nothing to do with a war,

         5       who are not involved in it, who were not the

         6       cause of it but merely the victims of it.  And

         7       it's beautifully done, but it's extremely

         8       significant.  It's historical.

         9                  And I think, for those of us who

        10       enjoy theater -- it's my understanding that

        11       this particular theater happens to be in

        12       Senator Liz Krueger's district, but here is

        13       someone from Buffalo wanting her to come.  She

        14       will undoubtedly be moving around the country

        15       with this play, as she has done in the past

        16       with other plays.

        17                  So we're really, really honored.

        18       She's a treasure, Lynn Nottage is a New York

        19       treasure.  And moreover, Mr. President, she is

        20       a Brooklyn treasure.  And moreover, she is an

        21       18th Senate District Brooklyn treasure and a

        22       friend of mine.

        23                  So I really applaud her, and I am

        24       honored to be able to stand here and say to



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         1       Lynn Nottage:  We love you, we think that you

         2       are wonderful, you've made such contributions

         3       to the arts in our city and others, and we

         4       look forward to seeing much more of your work

         5       in the very near future.

         6                  Thank you, Mr. President.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank

         8       you, Senator Montgomery.

         9                  Senator Serrano, on the resolution.

        10                  SENATOR SERRANO:    Thank you,

        11       Mr. President.

        12                  And I want to commend Senator

        13       Montgomery for bringing this wonderful

        14       resolution to the floor of the Senate.  And I

        15       would also like to congratulate Lynn for the

        16       wonderful work that she is doing in theater.

        17                  And as chair of the Committee on

        18       Cultural Affairs, and having had the good

        19       fortune of working in nonprofit theater long

        20       before I became an elected official, I know

        21       full well the importance of artists in our

        22       community and artists in our society.

        23                  Artists in so many ways are the

        24       conscience of our society.  They are the



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         1       storytellers.  They are the ones who let us

         2       understand the history in a way that is

         3       meaningful and purposeful in our society.

         4                  And, as Senator Montgomery, I join

         5       her and many other colleagues here in the

         6       Senate in a full understanding that the arts

         7       are more than something that is aesthetic,

         8       more than something that is nice if you can

         9       have it -- but more importantly, the arts are

        10       a pillar in our society, just as important as

        11       any other major infrastructure.  And without

        12       the arts, without a cultural sector, we cease

        13       to be a full, civilized society.

        14                  And I think it's fitting, Senator

        15       Montgomery, that we have this wonderful

        16       resolution during budget time.  Because as we

        17       look over the numbers and as we grapple with

        18       the fiscal deficit that we have here in the

        19       State of New York, it is so important that we

        20       fortify and maintain the arts and culture in

        21       the great State of New York.  Because without

        22       it, not only do we not have the wonderful

        23       educational component for our families and for

        24       our society, but we also lose a major economic



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         1       engine that can help spur the economy at a

         2       time of fiscal downturn.

         3                  So for that and so many reasons, I

         4       congratulate Lynn and I congratulate Senator

         5       Montgomery for bringing this resolution to the

         6       floor.

         7                  Thank you.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank

         9       you, Senator Serrano.

        10                  Senator Squadron, on the

        11       resolution.

        12                  SENATOR SQUADRON:    I thank the

        13       chair.

        14                  I first want to acknowledge Senator

        15       Montgomery for acknowledging Lynn Nottage

        16       today.  It's so important, as Senator Serrano

        17       said, especially on a day when our minds are

        18       so much on the budget, to focus on the arts

        19       and on these higher goals.  I think it is a

        20       reminder for all of us as to why a good budget

        21       and why a functional state is so important.

        22                  Especially at the end of Women's

        23       History Month -- it's not just the end of the

        24       budget time, but it's a time when we



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         1       acknowledge the role and the expansion of

         2       women in the arts and the great accomplishment

         3       that Ruined is, in taking, as I understand it,

         4       a Brecht play and modifying it -- "Mother

         5       Courage," as I understand it -- and updating

         6       it and bringing it into a modern context that

         7       says so much about our world, about the role

         8       of women and of men.

         9                  So I have not yet seen the show, as

        10       you can tell from my description of it,

        11       because I've been up here.  But I also

        12       appreciate Lynn Nottage coming up today and

        13       reminding us of the great things that we can

        14       home for.

        15                  I have not seen nearly enough

        16       theater and focused nearly enough on art since

        17       I've been in politics; I think many of us

        18       don't.  And so I'm glad to spend a moment

        19       today to do it.

        20                  And I am particularly honored that

        21       your show was at Manhattan Theatre Club.  My

        22       father was chair of the board of the City

        23       Center Theater for a quarter of a century,

        24       helped build it, helped bring Manhattan



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         1       Theatre Club there.  And I know that it was

         2       with plays like yours and creations like yours

         3       and people like you that he had in mind when

         4       he fought to save and expand City Center

         5       Theater.  So it's a great honor that you come

         6       and joined us and that you have honored that

         7       place with this show.

         8                  So I urge you to stay in Brooklyn,

         9       stay in New York, keep working, and please

        10       also welcome other new and young artists in

        11       New York and keep them in the arts.  Don't let

        12       them fall into politics or anything else.

        13       Because such a big part of who we are is

        14       having young artists develop and stay and grow

        15       here.

        16                  So I congratulate you today, and I

        17       congratulate you on your great accomplishment.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank

        19       you, Senator Squadron.

        20                  Are there any other Senators who

        21       wish to be heard on the resolution?

        22                  Seeing none, the question is on the

        23       resolution.  All in favor signify by saying

        24       aye.



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         1                  (Response of "Aye.")

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         3       Opposed, nay.

         4                  (No response.)

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         6       resolution is adopted.

         7                  Ms. Nottage, on behalf of Senator

         8       Montgomery, Senator Serrano, Senator Squadron,

         9       and all the members of the Senate, we thank

        10       you for the contributions you have made and

        11       continue to make to the people of the state.

        12       We hope you enjoy your visit here to the

        13       Senate chamber and to Albany, and all best

        14       wishes in the future.

        15                  (Applause.)

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        17       Senator Klein.

        18                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, I

        19       believe Senator Perkins has a resolution at

        20       the desk.  I ask that the resolution be read

        21       in its entirety, move for its immediate

        22       adoption, and allow Senator Perkins to speak

        23       on his resolution.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The



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         1       Secretary will read.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

         3       Perkins, Legislative Resolution Number 1133,

         4       celebrating the life and accomplishments of

         5       abolitionist, women's rights activist, and

         6       humanitarian Sojourner Truth, 1797-1883.

         7                  "WHEREAS, March is Women's History

         8       Month, a time to honor, reflect on, and pay

         9       tribute to the women of our nation for their

        10       significant contributions and dedication to

        11       fighting equality for all women; and

        12                  "WHEREAS, The efforts and

        13       accomplishments of African-American women are

        14       all too often overlooked, and the need to

        15       recognize their commitment is worthwhile,

        16       meaningful, and long overdue; and

        17                  "WHEREAS, Attendant to such

        18       concern, and in full accord with its

        19       longstanding traditions, this Legislative Body

        20       is justly proud to celebrate the life and

        21       accomplishments of abolitionist, women's

        22       rights activist, and humanitarian Sojourner

        23       Truth, 1797-1889; and

        24                  "WHEREAS, Born Isabella Baumfree in



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         1       1797, on the Johannes Hardenbergh estate in

         2       the Swartekill neighborhood in what was then

         3       the Town of Hurley, New York, but is now in

         4       Esopus, Sojourner Truth is considered to be

         5       one of the two most famous black women of the

         6       19th century; and

         7                  "WHEREAS, Sojourner Truth was a

         8       19th-century Ulster County former slave and

         9       forerunner of the women's and civil rights

        10       movements.  She, like many other slaves, had

        11       watched her brothers and sisters be sold into

        12       slavery and taken away from their families;

        13       and

        14                  "WHEREAS, Sojourner Truth grew up

        15       speaking Dutch and had at least five children

        16       (two daughters were sold away from her).  She

        17       fled her owners' household in 1827, found

        18       refuge in the home of the Van Wageners, and

        19       took their name; and

        20                  "WHEREAS, In 1843, she was inspired

        21       to change her name from Isabella Van Wagener

        22       to Sojourner Truth, and to set out to become a

        23       preacher.  She ended up in Northampton,

        24       Massachusetts, with a utopian community, and



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         1       stayed there until 1850, when she settled in

         2       Battle Creek, Michigan.  By that time, she had

         3       given lectures on abolition and women's rights

         4       in many public appearances; and

         5                  "WHEREAS, 'Ain't I A Woman?' is

         6       persuasive, motivational, inspirational and

         7       the most recognized speech by Sojourner Truth.

         8       She delivered it at a women's rights

         9       convention in Akron, Ohio, in 1851; and

        10                  "WHEREAS, The celebrated Sojourner

        11       Truth had excellent powers of oration which

        12       are highlighted forever in her famous speech.

        13       This remarkable lady's unwavering dedication

        14       to the women's suffrage movement stands as a

        15       beacon of inspiration for all women, both then

        16       and now, who have struggled and continue to

        17       struggle for their rights; and

        18                  "WHEREAS, Sojourner Truth was

        19       received by President Abraham Lincoln at the

        20       White House in 1864.  After the war, she

        21       advocated a 'Negro State' and promoted the

        22       emigration of African-Americans to the West.

        23       She continued to travel throughout much of the

        24       Northeast, lecturing on a variety of



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         1       inspirational and social reform topics, before

         2       retiring to Battle Creek, Michigan, in her

         3       later years; and

         4                  "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this

         5       Legislative Body that Women's History Month is

         6       a highly felicitous time to recognize and

         7       honor women of greatness; now, therefore, be

         8       it

         9                  "RESOLVED, That this Legislative

        10       Body pause in its deliberations to celebrate

        11       the life and accomplishments of abolitionist,

        12       women's rights activist and humanitarian

        13       Sojourner Truth, 1797-1883."

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        15       Senator Perkins, on the resolution.

        16                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Thank you very

        17       much, Mr. President.

        18                  Sojourner Truth often said that

        19       "Truth is powerful, and it prevails."  The

        20       message of Sojourner Truth is indeed powerful,

        21       and her message will prevail.

        22                  Sojourner Truth devoted her life to

        23       the women's suffrage movement.  She was an

        24       accomplished abolitionist, women's rights



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         1       activist and humanitarian.  As a forerunner in

         2       the movement for women's rights, she was often

         3       faced with naysayers and pessimists who told

         4       her to quit or to give up.  However, she never

         5       quit or gave up.  Her steadfast commitment to

         6       the cause of women's rights is an enduring

         7       reminder for those of us who continue to fight

         8       for what she so boldly stood for.

         9                  As a society, we are infinitely

        10       fortunate to have individuals like Sojourner

        11       Truth who are willing to devote their lives to

        12       the cause of civil and human rights.  It's my

        13       honor to introduce this resolution and give

        14       tribute to such an amazing woman, Sojourner

        15       Truth.

        16                  Thank you.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank

        18       you, Senator Perkins.

        19                  Are there any other Senators who

        20       wish to be heard on the resolution?

        21                  Seeing none, the question is on the

        22       resolution.  All in favor signify by saying

        23       aye.

        24                  (Response of "Aye.")



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         2       Opposed, nay.

         3                  (No response.)

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         5       resolution is adopted.

         6                  Both this resolution and Senator

         7       Montgomery's resolution are open for

         8       multisponsorship.  Any member of the Senate

         9       wishing not to sign on as a cosponsor should

        10       notify the desk.

        11                  Senator Klein.

        12                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, at

        13       this time can we stand at ease until the call

        14       of the Majority Leader.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        16       Senate will stand at ease until the call of

        17       the Majority Leader.

        18                  (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

        19       ease at 3:34 p.m.)

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        21       Senator Klein.

        22                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President,

        23       I'm happy to report that the Senate will

        24       convene at 5:30.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         2       Senate will continue to stand at ease and will

         3       reconvene at 5:30.

         4                  (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

         5       at 5:43 p.m.)

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         7       Senate will return at this time to the order

         8       of motions and resolutions.

         9                  Senator Klein.

        10                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President,

        11       there will be an immediate meeting of the

        12       Rules Committee in the Majority Conference

        13       Room.

        14                  Pending the conclusion of the Rules

        15       Committee, may we please stand at ease.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    There

        17       will be an immediate meeting of the Committee

        18       on Rules in the Majority Conference Room,

        19       Room 332.

        20                  The Senate will stand at ease

        21       pending the report of the Rules Committee.

        22                  (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

        23       ease at 5:44 p.m.)

        24                  (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened



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         1       at 6:01 p.m.)

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         3       Senator Klein.

         4                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, I

         5       believe there's a report of the Rules

         6       Committee at the desk.  I move that we accept

         7       the report of the Rules Committee.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         9       Senator Klein, there is a report of the Rules

        10       Committee at the desk, and the Secretary will

        11       read.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Smith,

        13       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

        14       following bills:

        15                  Senate Print 50C, Senate Budget

        16       Bill, an act making appropriations for the

        17       support of government:  Public Protection and

        18       General Government Budget;

        19                  51A, Senate Budget Bill, an act

        20       making appropriations for the support of

        21       government:  Legislature and Judiciary Budget;

        22                  53C, Senate Budget Bill, an act

        23       making appropriations for the support of

        24       government:  Education, Labor and Family



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         1       Assistance Budget;

         2                  54C, Senate Budget Bill, an act

         3       making appropriations for the support of

         4       government:  Health and Mental Hygiene Budget;

         5                  55C, Senate Budget Bill, an act

         6       making appropriations for the support of

         7       government:  Transportation, Economic

         8       Development and Environmental Conservation

         9       Budget;

        10                  56B, Senate Budget Bill, an act to

        11       amend the State Finance Law;

        12                  57B, Senate Budget Bill, an act to

        13       amend the Education Law;

        14                  58B, Senate Budget Bill, an act to

        15       amend the Public Health Law and the Elder Law;

        16                  And Senate Print 59B, Senate Budget

        17       Bill, an act to amend Chapter 279 of the Laws

        18       of 1998 amending the Transportation Law.

        19                  All bills ordered direct to third

        20       reading.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        22       Senator Klein.

        23                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, at

        24       this time can we take up Supplemental Calendar



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         1       29A.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         3       Senator Klein, if we could have a motion to

         4       adopt the report of the Rules Committee.

         5                  SENATOR KLEIN:    I make a motion

         6       to adopt the report of the Rules Committee.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    All

         8       those in favor of adopting the report of the

         9       Rules Committee please signify by saying aye.

        10                  (Response of "Aye.")

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        12       Opposed, nay.

        13                  (Response of "Nay.")

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        15       report of the Rules Committee is adopted.

        16                  Senator Klein.

        17                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Could we now take

        18       up Supplemental Calendar 29A.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        20       Secretary will read Senate Supplemental

        21       Calendar 29A.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        23       Calendar Number --

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Excuse



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         1       me.

         2                  Senator Skelos, why do you rise?

         3                  SENATOR SKELOS:    This is on the

         4       consent calendar or the debate calendar?  Oh,

         5       the debate calendar, thank you.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    This

         7       will be the noncontroversial reading of the

         8       supplemental calendar, Senator Skelos.

         9                  The Secretary will read.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        11       Calendar Number 134, Senator C. Kruger moves

        12       to discharge, from the Committee on Finance,

        13       Assembly Bill Number 155C and substitute it

        14       for the identical Senate Bill Number 55C,

        15       Third Reading Calendar 134.

        16                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Lay it aside,

        17       please.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        19       Substitution ordered.

        20                  The Secretary will read.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        22       134, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print

        23       155C, an act making appropriations for the

        24       support of government.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         2       bill is laid aside.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         4       138, Senate Budget Bill, Senate Print 59B, an

         5       act to amend Chapter 279 of the Laws of 1998.

         6                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Lay it aside,

         7       please.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         9       bill is laid aside.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        11       Calendar Number 133, Senator C. Kruger moves

        12       to discharge, from the Committee on Finance,

        13       Assembly Bill Number 154C and substitute it

        14       for the identical Senate Bill Number 54C,

        15       Third Reading Calendar 133.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        17       Substitution ordered.

        18                  The Secretary will read.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        20       133, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print

        21       Number 154C, an act making appropriations for

        22       the support of government.

        23                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Lay it aside.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The



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         1       bill is laid aside.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

         3       Calendar Number 137, Senator C. Kruger moves

         4       to discharge, from the Committee on Finance,

         5       Assembly Bill Number 158B and substitute it

         6       for the identical Senate Bill Number 58B,

         7       Third Reading Calendar 137.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         9       substitution is ordered, and the Secretary

        10       will read.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        12       137, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print

        13       Number 158B, an act to amend the Public Health

        14       Law and the Elder Law.

        15                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Lay the bill

        16       aside.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        18       bill is laid aside.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        20       Calendar Number 132, Senator C. Kruger moves

        21       to discharge, from the Committee on Finance,

        22       Assembly Bill Number 153C and substitute it

        23       for the identical Senate Bill Number 53C,

        24       Third Reading Calendar 132.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         2       substitution is ordered, and the Secretary

         3       will read.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         5       132, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print

         6       Number 153C, an act making appropriations for

         7       the support of government:  Education, Labor

         8       and Family Assistance Budget.

         9                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Lay it aside,

        10       please.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        12       bill is laid aside.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        14       136, Senate Budget Bill, Senate Print 57B, an

        15       act to amend the Education Law.

        16                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Lay the bill

        17       aside, please.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        19       bill is laid aside.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        21       131, Senate Budget Bill, Senate Print 51A, an

        22       act making appropriations for the support of

        23       government:  Legislature and Judiciary Budget.

        24                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Lay the bill



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         1       aside, please.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         3       bill is laid aside.

         4                  Senator Klein, that completes the

         5       noncontroversial reading of Senate

         6       Supplemental Calendar 29A.

         7                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, at

         8       this time can we please have a reading of the

         9       controversial Supplemental Calendar 29A, and

        10       begin with Calendar Number 134.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        12       Secretary will ring the bells.

        13                  I ask all members to come to the

        14       chamber to be prepared to consider the first

        15       of the nine budget bills.

        16                  We will begin on the controversial

        17       calendar with Calendar Number 134, and the

        18       Secretary will read.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        20       134, substituted earlier, Assembly Budget

        21       Bill, Assembly Print Number 155C, an act

        22       making appropriations for the support of

        23       government:  Transportation, Economic

        24       Development and Environmental Conservation



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         1       Budget.

         2                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Explanation.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         4       Senator Kruger, an explanation of the bill has

         5       been requested.

         6                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Thank you,

         7       Mr. President.

         8                  Today is March 31, 2009, a historic

         9       moment in the life of every New Yorker and a

        10       historic moment in the life of this chamber.

        11       For the first time -- actually, for the sixth

        12       time in 33 years we're in this house

        13       presenting a budget on time and on balance.

        14                  This budget is the representation

        15       of 13 public hearings on a budget that was

        16       presented by the Governor on December 16th of

        17       last year.  The hearings began on January 13th

        18       of this year; 428 individual groups testified

        19       before those 13 public hearings.  Over 5,000

        20       letters were received on that budget, 23,000

        21       hits on the Senate Majority website.

        22       Thousands of pages of testimony were received

        23       and documented.

        24                  Out of that budget came the



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         1       deliberations which we face this evening.

         2       Hugh Carey in 1975, in his State of the State

         3       message, said that the days of wine and roses

         4       were over.  Well, little did he know that

         5       44 years later this house would face a budget

         6       with a $17 billion deficit -- at the time,

         7       interestingly enough, a deficit that was equal

         8       to almost the size of his budget.

         9                  However, we've approached this

        10       knowing full well that New York is not an

        11       island, that our communities face the issues

        12       of those communities across this great state

        13       and around this nation.  Today we live in a

        14       global society with a global economic picture.

        15       There is a meltdown taking place right before

        16       us.  Every day, the loss becomes greater and

        17       greater.  Every day that we considered the

        18       budget, our deficit grew larger and larger.

        19       Tens of thousands of people lost their jobs

        20       while we continued these deliberations.

        21                  The phrase was coined that this was

        22       sort of a moving target.  Well, it was a

        23       target that you could never really find the

        24       bull's-eye.  And because of that, this became



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         1       a difficult process, a process that many of

         2       us -- in fact, all of us -- should not be

         3       happy with, a process that needed tuning and

         4       refining.  And it's a process that is a

         5       product in motion.

         6                  Today's budget is a reflection of

         7       those shared values.  The cuts that we have

         8       placed on our programs have been huge:

         9       $6 billion worth of cuts from last year's

        10       programs and last year's budget have become

        11       the cornerstone of this year's budget.  It's a

        12       sad comment, but it's a comment that we have

        13       to deal with.

        14                  We as elected officials, we as the

        15       upper house in this Legislature, had a keen

        16       and unique responsibility.  We had to

        17       recognize our common needs and the basic

        18       concerns of the people that we come here

        19       for -- the sick, the poor, the developmentally

        20       disabled, the aged.  At the same time, we had

        21       to create jobs, we had to foster new

        22       development, we had to recognize that we must

        23       advance technology, we must protect education,

        24       provide for our universities, and keep in mind



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         1       that the budget had to be balanced and the

         2       budget ultimately had to be approved.

         3                  And we've done that.  We've done

         4       that succinctly, we've done it on target, and

         5       we've done it on time.

         6                  Many people will feel that this

         7       budget doesn't reflect the spending patterns

         8       that they would like to see.  And members will

         9       debate that today, tonight, and tomorrow.  And

        10       in many instances their arguments will ring a

        11       positive note, because none of us should be

        12       happy with this budget.  None of us should

        13       feel that the cuts were done as cuts should

        14       have been done.

        15                  But they had to be done.  The

        16       restorations that were made, the revenue that

        17       was generated was to fill a huge spending gap.

        18       The stimulus money that came down from

        19       Washington, I said during the hearing everyone

        20       was getting stimulated over the stimulus

        21       money.  Well, they were getting

        22       overstimulated.  Because at the end of the

        23       day, when Washington was finished with the

        24       rules and regulations and when we had to



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         1       actually look at the money that we got, we saw

         2       full well that the money that we got was not

         3       the money that could be used in the places

         4       that we really wanted to use them in the

         5       fullest context of a stimulus package.

         6                  So we were left with using those

         7       funds, with making severe cuts, and at the

         8       same time having to generate new revenue.

         9       We've done all three of those components.

        10       That's why we're here tonight with a balanced,

        11       on-time budget.

        12                  As this drama unfolds and as the

        13       chairpeople of our committees present this

        14       budget and as we all share in the debate that

        15       surrounds it, we have to recognize full well

        16       that this committee did not operate in a

        17       vacuum.  We reached out to the other side.  We

        18       tried to bring all of the partisan politics

        19       out of this process and make it truly a

        20       representative sampling of what this

        21       Legislature is all about.

        22                  Many may disagree with that.  And I

        23       don't need a show of hands.  But at the same

        24       time, at the same time, the facts are that



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         1       that attempt was made.

         2                  And could we have done a better

         3       job?  Perhaps.  And will we do a better job in

         4       the future?  For sure.  But at the same time,

         5       the vision that we had, the complexities of

         6       the issues in front of us, the need to develop

         7       a strategy that would extricate us from what

         8       has become the greatest economic downturn of

         9       modern times, put us on a reform path.

        10                  We tried to retool the way we

        11       deliver healthcare in this state, to

        12       understand the obligations that we have

        13       towards the State University system, to try to

        14       lasso in the cost of home care and nursing

        15       care, to understand that economic development

        16       and job creation will be the true prescription

        17       for long-time success.

        18                  We are on a road, the road that we

        19       have charted today begins.  New York is at a

        20       precipice.  But at the same time, as Yogi

        21       Berra said:  When you see a fork in the road,

        22       take it.  Well, we've taken it.  We've taken

        23       the road that brings us to fiscal strength, to

        24       understand that we have to reshape the way we



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         1       govern and the way we deliver services, that

         2       we can't continue to expect to spend more and

         3       get less in.  As Hugh Carey said, truly the

         4       days of wine and roses are over.

         5                  Thank you.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank

         7       you, Senator Kruger.

         8                  Senator Skelos.

         9                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Thank you,

        10       Mr. President.

        11                  And Senator Kruger, I agree with

        12       you on one point.  Today is March 31st.

        13                  And this is the first time we've

        14       had an open public debate of this budget.  And

        15       I think that this is unfortunate for the

        16       people of the State of New York, who because

        17       of what you're going to do, and your Democrat

        18       friends and the Democrat Governor, they're

        19       going to pay for this budget in so many

        20       ways -- through higher taxes, and possibly

        21       with the loss of their jobs.

        22                  Senator Kruger, you mentioned the

        23       day of wine and roses is over.  That's because

        24       you're going to tax wine.  You're going to tax



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         1       beer.  And we should take a sip of water,

         2       because you're going to be taxing water before

         3       this session is over.  And that's important,

         4       that's unfortunate, because that impacts the

         5       quality of life that so many people in

         6       New York State desire.  And they're losing it

         7       because of what your side of the aisle is

         8       doing.

         9                  As you know, in the past we broke

        10       the cycle of late budgets by reforming the

        11       process, to bring about more openness and

        12       transparency than at any time in the state's

        13       history.  Both houses passed their own

        14       budgets, their budget plans or resolutions.

        15       And the press knew where we stood, everyone

        16       knew -- the public in particular -- what

        17       budget alternatives we were supporting and

        18       opposing.  We submitted them to joint

        19       conference committees; we all participated in

        20       that.  We had discussions, and we worked out a

        21       resolution in public.

        22                  Despite so much talk of reform and

        23       change, the only change we have seen is that

        24       an effective public budget process was



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         1       ignored.  This budget was negotiated in

         2       secret, crafted behind closed doors, subject

         3       to press blackouts and special rules to keep

         4       it under wraps as long as possible.

         5                  Democrat Governor Paterson,

         6       Democrat Speaker Silver, and Democrat Majority

         7       Leader Senator Smith succeeded -- and all of

         8       you, by allowing it to happen -- in turning

         9       back the clock to the days of three men in a

        10       room.  And the result is a disastrous budget

        11       that taxes too much, spends too much, and will

        12       cost thousands and thousands of jobs.

        13                  This lack of transparency is

        14       unprecedented in all the years that I've had

        15       the privilege to serve in this chamber.  You

        16       can talk all you want about having "One

        17       New York," but the fact is that half of the

        18       people in this state that we represent have

        19       been shut out of the budget process.

        20                  Well, today the people that we

        21       represent are going to have their say, and

        22       they will have their say tomorrow when we

        23       continue to debate bills.  And let me tell

        24       you, they're going to express their feelings



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         1       and their reaction to the budget you're going

         2       to pass in the days to come.

         3                  The members of the Senate

         4       Republican conference have a lot of questions

         5       we want to ask today and tomorrow, because

         6       we've only had a short time to review this

         7       budget.  As the only conference that publicly

         8       proposed its own budget -- some plan,

         9       something -- we want to offer alternatives to

        10       this budget.  I expect we'll have a lively,

        11       informative debate and a respectful one.

        12                  Passing the budget is the single

        13       most important action the Legislature

        14       undertakes, and it has the largest impact on

        15       every person, every family, and every business

        16       in this state.  Governor Paterson, Speaker

        17       Silver, and Senator Smith said this budget

        18       couldn't be discussed in public because we are

        19       in crisis.  That's shocking, and that's

        20       disgraceful.

        21                  Let me say that so many families

        22       across this state are facing a real crisis.

        23       They are worried about their jobs and their

        24       future, they are struggling to make ends meet,



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         1       people are worried about losing their homes or

         2       their businesses.  They deserve to know how

         3       much of their hard-earned money the state is

         4       going to take away and how it will be spent.

         5       And they deserve that in advance of passage of

         6       this legislation.

         7                  Today and tomorrow, Senate

         8       Republicans are going to speak up for the

         9       New Yorkers who don't want to pay higher

        10       taxes.  We're going to fight for homeowners

        11       who want help paying their property taxes.

        12       And quite frankly, they want their STAR rebate

        13       checks returned, because they depend upon it.

        14       We are going to try to stop measures, and we

        15       urge any one of you, we just need one of you

        16       of courage and conviction to join us in

        17       stopping this disastrous plan.

        18                  The budget process has been

        19       conducted solely by three Democrats from

        20       New York City.  People in Buffalo, Syracuse,

        21       Watertown, and Mineola, they didn't have their

        22       voices heard, because everything was done

        23       behind closed doors.  They deserve a full,

        24       open and public debate, not a rubber stamp on



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         1       a bad budget that increases taxes, takes away

         2       property tax relief, and causes more jobs to

         3       be lost.

         4                  So thank you, Mr. President, for

         5       the courtesy of allowing me to speak as we

         6       enter this budget process.  Thank you,

         7       Mr. President.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank

         9       you, Senator Skelos.

        10                  Senator Young, why do you rise?

        11                  SENATOR YOUNG:    I rise because I

        12       have an amendment.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        14       Senator Young, your amendment is here at the

        15       desk.  Without objection, the reading of the

        16       amendment is waived and you may speak on the

        17       amendment.

        18                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Thank you,

        19       Mr. President.

        20                  Agriculture is the top industry in

        21       New York State, and it pumps billions of

        22       dollars into our economy.  Despite this fact,

        23       the budget bill that is being considered today

        24       has severe and deep cuts to our agricultural



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         1       programs that we've had in New York State, and

         2       it will cripple many of these sectors that are

         3       so important to our economy.

         4                  Today we have an amendment that

         5       restores funding to these vital programs,

         6       things like the Quality Milk Program at

         7       Cornell, the Center for Dairy Excellence, the

         8       Farm Viability Institute, the New York State

         9       Apple Association, the wine and grape

        10       marketing, the phytophthora research that

        11       benefits vegetable growers in Senator

        12       Stachowski's district.  And the list goes on.

        13       We even restore the Tractor Rollover Program

        14       that saves lives that unfortunately is being

        15       cut in this budget bill.

        16                  So we are investing $10 million in

        17       our farmers, into our agriculture, and into

        18       our economy here in New York State.  That's

        19       the first part of the amendment.

        20                  The second part of the amendment

        21       helps our dairy farmers that are in a severe

        22       crisis right now.  Milk prices are at an

        23       historic low.  In fact, they're 40 percent

        24       lower than they were at this time last year.



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         1       The recessionary economy has slowed demand for

         2       dairy foods both at home and abroad, causing a

         3       surplus that further undercuts dairy prices.

         4                  Now, all of this is going on while

         5       there are spikes in costs to farmers for

         6       things like feed, fuel, fertilizer, energy

         7       costs.  And this is a perfect storm that is

         8       going to drive many of our dairy farmers out

         9       of business this year.  I would hazard a guess

        10       that hundreds if not thousands of our dairy

        11       farms will go under.  And that will have a

        12       severe economic impact to New York State.

        13                  Right now New York is the nation's

        14       third largest dairy state, generating over

        15       $2 billion in milk sales annually.  When you

        16       factor in the fact that these farms also

        17       contribute to small businesses and rural life

        18       in upstate New York -- places like feed

        19       dealers, equipment suppliers, other small

        20       businesses -- the loss will be huge to

        21       New York State.

        22                  Now, in 2006 we had a similar

        23       crisis.  And at that time the Senate stepped

        24       up, took action, got results, and did



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         1       something to save our dairy farmers.  It was

         2       the Dairy Assistance Program that invested

         3       $30 million directly into our dairy farms.

         4       This amendment today reconstitutes the Dairy

         5       Assistance Program so that we can save these

         6       family farms, and many of the people in this

         7       room voted to support that.

         8                  Now, it's interesting to note that

         9       on the federal level there have been deep cuts

        10       proposed to agriculture.  But Congressman Eric

        11       Massa says that the funds have been restored.

        12       Last night President Obama told Congressman

        13       Massa he would drop the provision in his

        14       budget proposal that would have cut assistance

        15       for farms that generate more than $500,000 in

        16       gross sales revenue.

        17                  I bring that up because if the

        18       federal government can fight to save our

        19       family farms, then we should be doing the same

        20       thing in this chamber.

        21                  I would urge all of you to do the

        22       right thing and vote yes on this amendment.

        23       It's important to our economic future in

        24       New York State.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    0Thank

         2       you, Senator Young.

         3                  Senator Libous.

         4                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Could I request

         5       a roll call on the amendment, please.  A fast

         6       roll call, I mean.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Before

         8       we do that, Senator Libous, are there any

         9       other Senators who wish to be heard on the

        10       amendment?

        11                  Seeing none, the question is on the

        12       nonsponsor motion to amend Calendar Number

        13       134.  Those Senators voting in support of the

        14       nonsponsor amendment please raise your hands.

        15                  The Secretary will announce the

        16       results.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 30.  Nays,

        18       32.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        20       motion fails.

        21                  Senator Stachowski, on the bill.

        22                  SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    On the bill,

        23       on the economic development portion of this

        24       bill.  I thought I'd take the time to explain



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         1       what we have done in this part of the budget

         2       bill.

         3                  In this bill we dealt with Empire

         4       Zones by rejecting the Governor's immediate

         5       changes and limited the lookback to 1 to 1 and

         6       a certain number of shirt-changers for any

         7       kind of decertification.  We also changed the

         8       sunset date to allow for an earlier imposition

         9       of the new replacement program that is

        10       currently being negotiated between the

        11       Business Council, economic development people

        12       from across the state, the New York City

        13       partnership, and the Governor's people.

        14       Hopefully they'll come up with a program that

        15       isn't limited to location.

        16                  But as told to many of us during

        17       the course of this budget process, after the

        18       Governor's budget came out on Empire Zones and

        19       the changes, that certain companies -- for

        20       example, biotechs -- will never hit 20 to 1.

        21       Manufacturing companies will never hit 20 to

        22       1.  And certain other successful new companies

        23       will never hit 20 to 1.

        24                  However, they are successful, they



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         1       create jobs, and they add to our state.  So

         2       the object of this group is to put together a

         3       new program that will recognizes different

         4       industries and different categories need

         5       different kind of qualifications.  And that's

         6       the end goal of this negotiation, and that's

         7       why the date has been moved up to expire

         8       sooner.

         9                  Also in this part, the economic

        10       development portion of this package, we have

        11       restorations in research and technology.  The

        12       Centers for Advanced Technology have all been

        13       restored.  The Centers for Advanced Technology

        14       have all been funded.  That's a very important

        15       part, because they play a great role in

        16       research and development and working with

        17       small companies throughout the state in

        18       various areas.

        19                  Also important in this is there's

        20       been a restoration for the Focus Centers,

        21       $2 million.  The Legislature also maintains

        22       $1.2 million of operating funds for the six

        23       Centers of Excellence across the state that

        24       play a major role.



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         1                  Also in this section, the

         2       Legislature denies the combining of DED,

         3       NYSTAR, and ESDC and puts back the budgets for

         4       NYSTAR and DED with a 10 percent reduction in

         5       their budget, of 10.5 percent, to match up

         6       with other departments that have been cut.

         7                  We think these things are

         8       important, we think they play a major role in

         9       making us still able to grow economic

        10       development.  At a time when we're trying to

        11       cut a deficit, fill a deficit, we can't cut

        12       our way to prosperity.  So we think that these

        13       and other parts of this package will help the

        14       economy to grow, continue to attract

        15       businesses, and continue to help the companies

        16       that have taken advantage of these programs

        17       and grow jobs and retain jobs in New York to

        18       help make this state better.

        19                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank

        21       you, Senator Stachowski.

        22                  Just one moment.  To set the

        23       transcript straight, the vote on Senator

        24       Young's nonsponsor amendment was 30 ayes,



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         1       31 nays.

         2                  Senator Aubertine, on the bill.

         3                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Thank you,

         4       Mr. President.  On the bill.

         5                  As chairman of the Senate

         6       Agriculture Committee, and one of the only if

         7       not the only active farmer in the New York

         8       State Legislature, I do feel compelled to

         9       speak on the bill but from the point not only

        10       of a farmer but that of a legislator as well.

        11                  We proposed to increase the funding

        12       in many different programs from the initial

        13       Governor's recommendation.  We've increased

        14       funding on many programs, to the extent of

        15       over 43 percent of what the Governor initially

        16       proposed:  over $7 million of restorations, or

        17       nearly $7 million of restorations.

        18                  I've reached out to my colleagues

        19       on both sides of the aisle, to my counterpart,

        20       the ranker on the Ag Committee.  In fact, I've

        21       got a response, a written response, items that

        22       were identified by my counterpart.  Johne's

        23       disease, the Farm Family Assistance, Migrant

        24       Worker Program, all completely restored.  In



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         1       fact, the Migrant Worker Program was restored

         2       beyond the request of my ranker colleague.

         3                  But it's more than just that.  I

         4       mean, we have to live in the reality of the

         5       budget and the monies that are available to

         6       us.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         8       Senator Young, why do you rise?

         9                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Mr. President,

        10       will Senator Aubertine yield for a question?

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        12       Senator Aubertine, do you yield?

        13                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    As soon as

        14       I'm finished, I most certainly will.

        15                  What's been proposed is a

        16       tremendous increase over what the Governor has

        17       proposed.  In fact, it's a 40 percent increase

        18       over last year's budget in agriculture, a

        19       75 percent increase over what the Governor

        20       proposed.

        21                  There are things that we can,

        22       should, and need to do for agriculture in this

        23       state in every sector.  But there are things

        24       that we can, should, and need to do for dairy



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         1       in this time of dairy crisis that we haven't

         2       done yet.  We need to support a resolution, we

         3       need to support legislation that would deal

         4       with the Class 3 debacle for monies that are

         5       owed to dairy farmers in this state on Class 3

         6       production.  These are not taxpayer dollars;

         7       this is money that's owed to our agricultural

         8       community not only in New York State but all

         9       across the United States.

        10                  There are things we can do here

        11       such as dealing with the casine issue and

        12       helping to make sure that the market is not

        13       eroded, as it's been eroded for decades in

        14       this state for dairy.  There are things we can

        15       do here to deal with bloc voting, which

        16       prevent dairy co-ops from usurping the rights

        17       of dairy farmers and taking away their right

        18       to vote on issues that concern them, their

        19       families, and their paychecks.

        20                  There are things we can do here in

        21       this state that other states here in the

        22       Northeast have already done and stand ready to

        23       work with us -- on hauling -- and yet we

        24       haven't done it.  But we need to.  Vermont,



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         1       New Hampshire, and other Northeast states have

         2       already done it, and we need to work with

         3       them.

         4                  So I'd be happy to work with

         5       anybody, anybody in this chamber and the other

         6       house, to make sure that these issues are

         7       dealt with the way they should be, properly,

         8       and make sure that the taxpayer dollars are

         9       spent wisely in the process.

        10                  There are things that we can do and

        11       should do and things that we shouldn't do.

        12       One of the issues that we have with the last

        13       proposal that's been put before us, that some

        14       in this chamber have supported, in their zeal

        15       to put it together, they've misstated -- in

        16       paragraph 4, I'm reading Section 19H of the

        17       UDC law.  I couldn't find Section 19H in the

        18       UDC law.  I think it was meant to be

        19       Section 16H.  But even at that, Section 16H

        20       expired in 2007.  And the reason I know that

        21       is because I was one of the people in the

        22       people's house, in the Assembly, that helped

        23       craft this.

        24                  So again, I am more than willing to



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         1       work with anyone on any issue concerning

         2       agriculture in this state.

         3                  Thank you, Mr. President.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank

         5       you, Senator Aubertine.  Do you at this time

         6       yield to Senator Young's request?

         7                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes.

         8                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Thank you,

         9       Mr. President.

        10                  Senator Aubertine, I listened very

        11       intently to what you said, and you mentioned a

        12       written letter that I did send to you giving

        13       you our priorities for the agriculture budget.

        14       And you talked about how you restored much of

        15       my request.

        16                  So I just have a question.  Was the

        17       Quality Milk Program under your budget

        18       restored to $1.3 million?  Which is last

        19       year's level, by the way.

        20                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    I'm looking

        21       for it here.  No.

        22                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Okay.  Was the

        23       Future Farmers of America --

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:



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         1       Senator Young, are you asking Senator

         2       Aubertine to continue to yield?

         3                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Yes.  Would

         4       Senator Aubertine still yield for a question?

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         6       Senator Aubertine, do you yield?

         7                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         9       Senator yields.

        10                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Was the Future

        11       Farmers of America, were they restored to

        12       $230,500?

        13                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    No.

        14                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Will the Senator

        15       still yield?

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        17       Senator Aubertine, do you yield?

        18                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        20       Senator yields.

        21                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Was the Onion

        22       Research Program restored to $100,000?

        23                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    No.

        24                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Thank you,



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         1       Senator Aubertine.

         2                  Will the Senator still yield?

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         4       Senator Aubertine, do you yield?

         5                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         7       Senator yields.

         8                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Was the Cornell

         9       Phytophthora Research Program restored to

        10       $200,000?

        11                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    No.

        12                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Thank you.

        13                  Will the Senator still yield?

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        15       Senator Aubertine, do you yield?

        16                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        18       Senator yields.

        19                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Was the New York

        20       State Apple Growers Association restored to

        21       $750,000?

        22                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    No.

        23                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Thank you.

        24                  Will the Senator still yield?



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         2       Senator Aubertine, do you yield?

         3                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         5       Senator yields.

         6                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Was the Turf

         7       Grass Environmental Stewardship Fund restored

         8       to $175,000?

         9                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    No.

        10                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Thank you.

        11                  Will the Senator still yield?

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        13       Senator Aubertine, do you yield?

        14                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        16       Senator yields.

        17                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Tractor Rollover

        18       Protection Program, was that restored to

        19       $100,000?

        20                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    No.

        21                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Thank you.

        22                  Will the Senator still yield?

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        24       Senator Aubertine, do you continue to yield?



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         1                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         3       Senator yields.

         4                  SENATOR YOUNG:    I'll just ask two

         5       more.  Plum Pox Virus Eradication Program, was

         6       that restored to $500,000?

         7                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    No.

         8                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Thank you.

         9                  So overall, the restorations -- if

        10       the Senator would still yield.  One more

        11       question.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        13       Senator Aubertine, do you continue to yield?

        14                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        16       Senator yields.

        17                  SENATOR YOUNG:    So overall, the

        18       restorations that the Senate Republicans asked

        19       for for agriculture were $31,169,000.  Was

        20       that what you restored in your budget?

        21                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    No.

        22                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Thank you.

        23                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Would Senator

        24       Young yield for a question?



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         2       Senator Young, do you yield?

         3                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Sure.

         4                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Well, I guess

         5       my primary question, Senator, would be how

         6       would you propose to pay for this?

         7                  SENATOR YOUNG:    That is a very

         8       easy question, Senator Aubertine, and I'm glad

         9       that you asked it.  There's a $1 billion

        10       federal stimulus slush fund that the Senate

        11       Democrats have included in your budget

        12       proposal.  And I would propose that there's no

        13       greater stimulus in this state than

        14       agriculture.  And I believe that we should

        15       take $31 million of that $1 billion slush fund

        16       and apply it to agriculture.  One billion

        17       dollar slush fund.

        18                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    For clarity,

        19       could you help me better understand this --

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        21       Senator Aubertine, are you asking Senator

        22       Young to continue to yield?

        23                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes.

        24       Senator, would you continue to yield?



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         1                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Yes, I will.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         3       Senator yields.

         4                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Senator, for

         5       clarity, could you help me better understand

         6       where this slush fund is?

         7                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Certainly,

         8       Senator Aubertine.  I can repeat what I just

         9       told you.  In your budget proposal there is a

        10       $1 billion undesignated slush fund of federal

        11       stimulus money that they have not -- that you

        12       have not allocated toward any specific

        13       purpose.  We should be investing in

        14       agriculture programs in this state, and there

        15       it is, the $31 million out of a $1 billion

        16       slush fund.

        17                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Would the

        18       Senator continue to yield?

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        20       Senator Young, do you continue to yield?

        21                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Yes.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        23       Senator yields.

        24                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Senator, are



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         1       you sure that agriculture is eligible for that

         2       money?

         3                  SENATOR YOUNG:    I'm sorry,

         4       Senator, I didn't hear you.

         5                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Senator, are

         6       you sure that agriculture is eligible for that

         7       money?

         8                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Yes, Senator

         9       Aubertine, I am sure, because it's a

        10       discretionary fund.  And I can tell you

        11       exactly where that fund is.  It's under the

        12       Public Protection Budget bill, on page 319.

        13                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Well,

        14       Senator -- would the Senator continue to

        15       yield?

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        17       Senator Young, do you yield?

        18                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Certainly.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        20       Senator yields.

        21                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Senator, I

        22       guess in working with you on this -- I

        23       certainly look forward to that.  And I hope

        24       that in the future meetings that we have set



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         1       up -- I hope you're able to make, unlike the

         2       last one.  And I certainly would look forward

         3       to working with you on this in the cleanup

         4       language of this budget.

         5                  SENATOR YOUNG:    I look forward to

         6       doing the right thing for agriculture in the

         7       state.  Thank you, Senator.

         8                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Thank you.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank

        10       you, Senator.

        11                  Senator Saland.

        12                  SENATOR SALAND:    Mr. President,

        13       would Senator Kruger yield, please.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        15       Senator Kruger, do you yield?

        16                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes,

        17       Mr. President.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        19       Senator yields.

        20                  SENATOR SALAND:    Senator Kruger,

        21       in your opening remarks you raised a number of

        22       points, one of which was the fact that there

        23       was some $6 billion in cuts -- excuse me, I'll

        24       be very happy to yield to Senator DeFrancisco



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         1       if Senator DeFrancisco would like.

         2                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    No, go

         3       ahead.

         4                  SENATOR SALAND:    There was some

         5       $6 billion in cuts contained in this budget.

         6       First, could you started off by telling me

         7       what is your base from which you make those

         8       cuts?

         9                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        10       you, Mr. President, I don't fully understand

        11       Senator Saland's question.

        12                  SENATOR SALAND:    Well, if you're

        13       making cuts, you're starting off at a certain

        14       level.  Are you using last year's budget as

        15       your base, are you using the Governor's budget

        16       as your base?  What is your base for arriving

        17       at those $6 billion in cuts?

        18                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        19       you, Mr. President, the cuts were from last

        20       year's budget.

        21                  SENATOR SALAND:    And if Senator

        22       Kruger would continue to yield.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        24       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?



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         1                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         3       sponsor yields.

         4                  SENATOR SALAND:    And how much was

         5       the gross amount of last year's budget,

         6       Senator Kruger?

         7                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Last year's

         8       budget was approximately $121.3 billion.

         9                  SENATOR SALAND:    $121.3 billion?

        10                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes.

        11                  SENATOR SALAND:    If Senator

        12       Kruger will continue to yield.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        14       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

        15                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        17       Senator yields.

        18                  SENATOR SALAND:    And what is the

        19       amount of the budget that you are proposing

        20       here currently today?

        21                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    The budget

        22       as proposed is approximately $131.9 billion.

        23                  SENATOR SALAND:    So if last

        24       year's budget was 121 -- and I'll take the



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         1       liberty of rounding up -- and this year's

         2       budget is 139, there's a difference of

         3       approximately $18 billion?

         4                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

         5       you, Mr. President, in fact that's not the

         6       case.  We increased -- through you,

         7       Mr. President, All Funds spending was

         8       increased by about $10 billion.

         9                  SENATOR SALAND:    Well, help me

        10       with the math, please.  If Senator Kruger will

        11       yield.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        13       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

        14                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,

        15       Mr. President.

        16                  SENATOR SALAND:    If you can help

        17       me with the math -- I'm sorry, 132.  I

        18       apologize.  So it's a difference of

        19       approximately $12 billion -- $11 billion, I

        20       take that back.

        21                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    About.

        22       Approximately, yes.

        23                  SENATOR SALAND:    And from that we

        24       subtract 6 billion that represent cuts that



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         1       were taken from last year's base?

         2                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

         3       you, Mr. President, 6 billion is General Fund

         4       cuts.  While yet at the same time, as I

         5       pointed out, our budget a relatively flat

         6       under General Funds.

         7                  SENATOR SALAND:    Senator Kruger,

         8       if you'll continue to yield.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        10       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

        11                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,

        12       Mr. President.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        14       Senator yields.

        15                  SENATOR SALAND:    And excuse me

        16       for rounding off numbers.  This year's budget

        17       is $132 billion, All Funds.  Last year's

        18       budget -- and stop me if I'm wrong -- last

        19       year's budget was 121, from which you cut some

        20       $6 billion.  You announced to us here today

        21       that there are $6 billion in cuts, and you

        22       said the base for that was last year's budget.

        23                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        24       you, Mr. President.  General Fund versus



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         1       All Funds.  And again, through you,

         2       Mr. President, taking into account federal

         3       stimulus money.

         4                  SENATOR SALAND:    I haven't even

         5       approached the subject of federal stimulus

         6       monies.  I'm not interested so much in the

         7       source of our revenues; I'm interested in the

         8       nature of our spending.

         9                  Senator Kruger, so we have

        10       approximately $11 billion more in spending,

        11       All Funds, in this year's budget.  We cut

        12       $6 billion from last year's spending.  So

        13       basically our base from last year would be

        14       something in the nature of $115 billion.  If

        15       you wipe out the cuts, you're now talking in

        16       terms of 132.  So there's $17 billion in

        17       spending in this year's budget that was not in

        18       last year's budget; is that correct?

        19                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        20       you, Mr. President.  First of all, Senator

        21       Saland, I don't know exactly what your

        22       question is.  But I do know that we're

        23       comparing apples and oranges.  We're talking

        24       about All Funds, and then we're talking about



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         1       General Funds at the same time.

         2                  So through you, Mr. President, for

         3       the purposes of clarity, can we define exactly

         4       what we're talking about?

         5                  SENATOR SALAND:    I think, through

         6       you, Mr. President, all of my comments have

         7       been to the All Funds budget.  I know there

         8       are not $132 billion in the General Fund.  I

         9       know there wasn't $121 billion in last year's

        10       General Fund.  I know that there are federal

        11       dollars, and they're off -- what we used to

        12       call off-budget dollars that helped comprise

        13       that All Funds budget.  So we're only talking

        14       in terms of All Funds for our purposes now.

        15                  We know we have 132 billion in

        16       All Funds, up 11 billion from last year.  And

        17       in your remarks, again, you said we cut

        18       6 billion from last year.  So how have we

        19       spent the difference between 115 billion that

        20       we spent last year and 132 billion that we're

        21       spending this year?  That's a $17 billion

        22       swing.

        23                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        24       you, Mr. President.  The All Funds does not



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         1       include, once again, the general stimulus

         2       funds.  So consequently, our spending is

         3       virtually flat on General Funds.

         4                  SENATOR SALAND:    Through you,

         5       Mr. President.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         7       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

         8                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        10       Senator yields.

        11                  SENATOR SALAND:    I think we're

        12       talking past each other.  I'm not asking you

        13       to tell me the differences between the General

        14       Fund and All Funds, I'm asking if you can

        15       identify -- we both agree, I think, that we

        16       have gone from last year's $115 billion All

        17       Funds budget, after you've taken 6 billion in

        18       cuts, and we've gone to $132 billion All Funds

        19       budget this year.  That includes the General

        20       Fund, it includes offline items, and it

        21       includes federal money.

        22                  Can you, as the Finance chair, tell

        23       me, where's the 17 billion?  How are we

        24       spending it?  I'm not asking why are we



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         1       spending it, I'm asking how are we spending

         2       it.

         3                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Again,

         4       through you, Mr. President, I want to just

         5       once again reiterate that we're comparing two

         6       different piles of money and we're comparing

         7       two different funding sources.  Our spending

         8       is flat.  The dollars speak for themselves.

         9       And it's included in the budget, and it is the

        10       way it is.

        11                  SENATOR SALAND:    On the bill.

        12                  Thank you.  Thank you, Senator

        13       Kruger.

        14                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Thank you,

        15       Senator.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        17       Senator Saland, on the bill.

        18                  SENATOR SALAND:    Quite honestly,

        19       sir, I am totally baffled that the Finance

        20       chair doesn't quite understand that All Funds

        21       are all funds, All Funds comprise a number of

        22       different funds, and cannot tell me how we

        23       arrived at $17 billion in additional spending.

        24                  I'm not asking to identify which



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         1       pot it came from.  But you must be able to

         2       paint in broad strokes.  You must be able to

         3       tell me how you got from the 115 after you, by

         4       your own lips, told me you cut 6 to the 132.

         5                  I mean, give me a break.  You talk

         6       about drivel.  There's absolutely nothing

         7       there.  The only thing historic about this

         8       moment, if I can refer back to something that

         9       Senator Kruger had to say, is depending upon

        10       your vantage point, it represents high or low

        11       for chutzpah.  It's either the most

        12       extraordinarily bold, in-your-face grab, or it

        13       is the cesspool of all budgets.

        14                  The fact of the matter is when we

        15       talk about a reform path -- and again, I'm

        16       specifically picking words that the Finance

        17       chair used.  If this emulates reform or this

        18       is what we think of as reform, then we truly,

        19       truly are seeing the gulag at its best.

        20       Because there's no reform here.

        21                  As Senator Skelos said in his

        22       opening remarks, this is the first opportunity

        23       we've had to discuss the budget.  And when you

        24       try and discuss the budget, there's no answers



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         1       for basic questions.  The most basic question

         2       you could possibly ask can't be answered.

         3                  Reform?  Pick up a newspaper, any

         4       newspaper, from one tip of the state to

         5       another, and try and tell them this represents

         6       reform.  Look at the editorial comment.

         7                  There was some reference to a

         8       precipice, we're at a precipice.  Yes, we

         9       truly are at a precipice.  We have taken,

        10       apparently, the stimulus money, built up

        11       spending to a level that is totally

        12       unsustainable, and we are going to drop off

        13       that precipice once we exhaust that stimulus

        14       money and don't have the resources to sustain

        15       the spending.

        16                  When jobs flee, when people flee, I

        17       don't know -- I understand the politics of it,

        18       I don't understand the logic of it.  We're

        19       going to run out of sweeps.  We're going to

        20       run out of businesses.  We're going to run out

        21       of taxpayers.  And the last member of the

        22       Working Families Party can close the door on

        23       the way out.

        24                 Thank you.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank

         2       you, Senator Saland.

         3                  Senator DeFrancisco.

         4                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes, I'd

         5       request that Senator Kruger answer a few

         6       questions.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         8       Senator Kruger, do you yield?

         9                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        11       Senator yields.

        12                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        13       you, Mr. President.  Prior to answering

        14       Senator DeFrancesco's questions, I just want

        15       the record to reflect that I forgive Senator

        16       Saland for calling our chamber a gulag.

        17                  Senator DeFrancesco.

        18                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Before I

        19       ask the question, I will forgive Senator

        20       Kruger for calling me "Senator DeFrancesco"

        21       for the 55th time.

        22                  (Laughter.)

        23                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Touche.

        24       Touche.  I'll just call you Senator, okay?



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         1                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Would

         2       Senator Kruger yield to a question?

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         4       Senator Kruger, do you yield to Senator

         5       DeFrancisco?

         6                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,

         7       Mr. President.

         8                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Senator

         9       Kruger, you mentioned in your opening remarks

        10       how you reached out in a bipartisan way, as

        11       did your other members, to us in the hopes of

        12       working out a bipartisan budget.

        13                  And I acknowledge that on

        14       March 19th of this year, after many -- many,

        15       many weeks after those many budget hearings we

        16       sat through, you did send me a letter

        17       indicating that you wanted my concepts or my

        18       ideas about the budget.

        19                  And do you acknowledge, Senator

        20       Kruger, that I did respond to you the very

        21       following day and hand-delivered you a letter

        22       on March 20th giving you some suggestions as

        23       far as how the budget should look?

        24                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes,



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         1       Mr. President.  Yes, through you.

         2                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    And I'm

         3       going to just ask you generally if you would

         4       respond to another question.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         6       Senator Kruger, do you yield?

         7                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,

         8       Mr. President.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        10       Senator yields.

        11                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    That letter

        12       included, that I sent, really a summary of the

        13       Senate Republican budget proposal that we

        14       unveiled several weeks earlier, including

        15       cutting 1 percent from agency contracts,

        16       consolidation of state agencies, a 5 percent

        17       cut in state agency nonpersonnel service,

        18       collecting cigarette tax, enhanced Medicaid

        19       fraud acceleration, fraud coordination,

        20       eliminate Executive unspent lump sum balances,

        21       and the like.  And I won't read all of them.

        22                  Did this budget include any of the

        23       suggestions that the Republican conference

        24       made with respect to the budget that should be



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         1       in place this year?

         2                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes,

         3       through you, Mr. President.  Senator -- I'll

         4       call you Senator now.  Senator, without

         5       actually going point by point, item for item

         6       within the budget, it would be difficult for

         7       me to make those comparisons.

         8                  I will point out that we had

         9       significant dialogue during the hearing

        10       process.  You and I spoke on many occasions.

        11       We were sympathetic to many of the advocates

        12       that came in front of us.  And in many

        13       instances the issues that were raised by the

        14       advocates, although they might have not been

        15       incorporated in the Executive Budget, reflect

        16       the restorations that were made by this house

        17       in the final budget, the agreed-upon budget.

        18                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Would

        19       Senator Kruger continue to yield?

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        21       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

        22                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,

        23       Mr. President.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The



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         1       Senator yields.

         2                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Senator

         3       Kruger, many of the proposals that -- we're

         4       going to give you another chance here, because

         5       many of the proposals that we made we're going

         6       to have amendments to the budget during the

         7       course of this process.

         8                  But my next question is, did you

         9       respond in any way to my letter that I sent

        10       back to you on the 20th, some 11 days ago, to

        11       continue the dialogue in a bipartisan fashion

        12       that you indicated that you wanted to have in

        13       your opening remarks?

        14                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        15       you, Mr. President.  The leadership on the

        16       Democratic side of this chamber has and

        17       continues and will continue to have dialogue

        18       and to reach out to our colleagues on the

        19       other side of the aisle.

        20                  And whether that was condensed to

        21       writing, whether it was verbal, the facts are

        22       the facts, that meetings were held,

        23       discussions took place, and this budget,

        24       although, as I pointed out in my original



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         1       remarks, it is not reflective of everything

         2       that we would have liked to see in terms of a

         3       shared process, nevertheless is a process that

         4       went forward in a shared environment.

         5                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Would

         6       Senator Kruger continue to yield?

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         8       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

         9                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, for

        10       one more question, Mr. President.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        12       Senator yields.

        13                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Well, I

        14       have several more questions.  I don't know

        15       which one to choose from.  Are we in a hurry

        16       tonight, is my next question.  Can we get

        17       these questions answered by the chairman of

        18       Finance in an open, public budget meeting?

        19       That's my next question.

        20                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        21       you, Mr. President, I believe that I've

        22       attempted and will continue to answer your

        23       questions to the best of my ability.

        24                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Thank you.



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         1       Would Senator Kruger yield to another

         2       question?

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         4       Senator Kruger, do you yield?

         5                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes.  Yes,

         6       I do.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         8       Senator yields.

         9                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Senator

        10       Kruger, you said the facts are the facts.

        11       Isn't it a fact that you never responded to me

        12       in writing, verbally or in any other way, in

        13       Sanskrit or any other method of communication,

        14       to my letter of March 20th of 2009?

        15                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        16       you, Mr. President.  To the best of my

        17       recollection, certainly not in writing.  But I

        18       can't say that we didn't speak.

        19                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Well, I

        20       can.  On the bill.  I can.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        22       Senator DeFrancisco, on the bill.

        23                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Well, let

        24       me -- I have a couple of more questions.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         2       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

         3                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         5       Senator yields.

         6                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Now,

         7       Senator Kruger, we were provided on our desks

         8       and were provided earlier this morning with a

         9       New York State Senate Finance Committee Budget

        10       Fact Sheets, that I think you have one of

        11       these on your desk.  Everyone had one on his

        12       desk.  And on it is Senator Malcolm Smith --

        13       I'd ask him, but he's not in the chambers.

        14       But you're on this book as the Senate Finance

        15       chair; correct?

        16                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    That's what

        17       it says.

        18                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Okay.  And

        19       my question is this.  If you'd turn to page 2

        20       in this book concerning the 2009-2010

        21       financial plan summary -- and I'll give you an

        22       opportunity.  Do you see that?  Do you have

        23       page 2?

        24                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.



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         1                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Now,

         2       Senator Kruger, you answered several questions

         3       of Senator Saland, including the difference

         4       between last year budget and this year's

         5       budget.  This year's budget being about

         6       132 billion, with a B, and last year's budget

         7       being about 121 billion.

         8                  Is that what you have on this sheet

         9       of paper here, page 2?

        10                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

        11                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    All right.

        12       And that's how you determined how much

        13       additional all-purpose spending was done this

        14       year; fair enough?  Is that correct?

        15                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes.

        16                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Now, would

        17       Senator Kruger yield to another question?

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        19       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

        20                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,

        21       Mr. President.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        23       Senator yields.

        24                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Isn't it



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         1       true, Senator Kruger, that the $121 billion

         2       that you've got listed there is the amount in

         3       the Executive Budget?  And in fact, last

         4       year's budget, according to the Budget Office,

         5       was $119.6 billion.  So about 2 billion less

         6       than you've got represented here.

         7                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

         8       you, Mr. President, the Executive Budget says

         9       121.3.  Yes, it does say that.

        10                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Would he

        11       yield to another question?

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        13       Senator Kruger, will you yield?

        14                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I

        15       will, Mr. President.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        17       Senator yields.

        18                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I

        19       understand this says the Executive Budget is

        20       $121 billion.  Isn't it true that that number

        21       is not what was spent in last year's budget,

        22       this is the budget that our Executive proposed

        23       for this year?  And that last year's budget

        24       actually spent around $119 billion?



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         1                  And I've got the budget -- I've got

         2       something from the DOB if you want to take a

         3       look at it.

         4                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

         5       you, Mr. President, yes, it does say

         6       $121.3 billion, as proposed in the Executive

         7       Budget.  Yes, it does.

         8                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    All right.

         9       Would the Senator yield again?

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        11       Senator, do you yield?

        12                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I

        13       will, Mr. President.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        15       Senator yields.

        16                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Isn't it

        17       true that actually the increase in what we

        18       spent from last year to what we're spending

        19       this year isn't what the Executive Budget

        20       started out with being proposed this year, but

        21       it's what we actually spent last year, which

        22       was $119.6 billion?  Isn't that true?

        23                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        24       you, Mr. President, I don't have that number



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         1       in front of me.  But yes, Senator, I guess it

         2       is if that's what you say it is.

         3                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    All right.

         4       Well, I'm only the ranker.  And that's what

         5       I -- I'm looking from the Department of Budget

         6       here, the DOB, that they say $119.7 billion.

         7                  One more question on this topic.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         9       Senator Kruger, do you yield?

        10                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,

        11       Mr. President.

        12                  And for the purposes of clarity, we

        13       do not have last year's numbers on the sheet,

        14       page 2, as the Senator indicated.  We do have

        15       this year's, which I once again point out is

        16       121.3.  The numbers are so huge they're

        17       staggering.

        18                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Senator

        19       Kruger, if you accept my point that

        20       $119 billion was actually spent last year and

        21       what we're spending is $132 billion this year,

        22       isn't that a $13 billion increase in spending,

        23       actual increase in spending?  As opposed to

        24       what you just said was around $11 billion.



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         1       Because you're using the proposed Executive

         2       Budget for your base.

         3                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

         4       you, Mr. President.  Senator, yes, we are.

         5       Because if we want to look at the totality of

         6       it, we have to also look at $860 million was

         7       an increase due to a Medicaid caseload, and

         8       $700 million was due to local share of the

         9       Medicaid that passes through All Funds.

        10                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Would the

        11       Senator continue to yield.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        13       Senator Kruger, do you yield?

        14                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,

        15       Mr. President.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        17       Senator yields.

        18                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    So you

        19       agree with me that the actual increase in

        20       spending is 13 billion over last year, as

        21       opposed to 11 billion?

        22                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yeah, in

        23       fact -- and through you, Mr. President.  Yes,

        24       in fact, that -- those numbers may bear out.



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         1       But I do want to point out that we didn't do

         2       last year's budget.

         3                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Well, on

         4       the bill.  I'll ask other questions as we go

         5       along.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         7       Senator DeFrancisco, on the bill.

         8                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Thank you,

         9       Mr. President.

        10                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Senator

        11       Kruger had asked Senator Young how are we

        12       going to pay for these few millions of dollars

        13       of agricultural programs.  We just figured out

        14       that the Senate Majority, who did this budget

        15       in what was supposed to be a bipartisan way,

        16       just missed $2 billion in an analysis of how

        17       much we spent this year over last year.

        18                  That $2 billion on page 2, if

        19       everyone wants to read along, would make a

        20       difference.  They just said the percentage

        21       change, an increase in what we're spending, is

        22       8.65 percent.  It's really closer to

        23       10 percent of increased spending.

        24                  And it would seem to me that if



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         1       there -- we'll get into the stimulus money at

         2       a later questioning area.  But it would seem

         3       to me that if you don't even know how much

         4       your increasing spending -- I imagine if I

         5       asked a series of questions -- oh, actually

         6       Senator Saland asked them.  What are you

         7       spending it for, how do you determine what is

         8       the priorities of spending, whether it's

         9       agriculture or whether it's something like --

        10       and I don't know even what it is, the -- let's

        11       see.  Grants to community-based organizations

        12       for asthma studies.  Or specific lined-out

        13       community-based health centers.  Or health

        14       promotion initiatives, lump sum, about

        15       $4.5 million.

        16                  I mean, how do you make the

        17       determination as to what the priorities are if

        18       you don't even know how much you're spending

        19       and what you're responding it on?

        20                  So I guess what I'm saying is that

        21       this is just a microcosm of some of the

        22       problems that could have been alleviated had

        23       there been a process where this could have

        24       been hashed out among all of us like we've



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         1       done in the past so these types of things

         2       would not occur.

         3                  And once again, Senator Kruger will

         4       have another opportunity to consider the

         5       series of proposed changes in their budget or

         6       considerations for their budget during the

         7       course of our amendments as we go through the

         8       process, because that's what we're really

         9       going to present as we continue on with this

        10       debate.

        11                  Thank you.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank

        13       you, Senator DeFrancisco.

        14                  Senator Fuschillo.

        15                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you

        16       very much, Mr. President.  Will the sponsor

        17       yield for a few questions with respect to

        18       transportation issues?

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        20       Senator Kruger, do you yield?

        21                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I

        22       would, Mr. President.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        24       Senator yields.



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         1                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    But perhaps

         2       I should give an overview of the

         3       transportation portion of the budget first, if

         4       that's okay.

         5                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    That would be

         6       fine, sure.

         7                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Thank you,

         8       Mr. President.

         9                  If we move to the transportation

        10       portion of the budget, we have added

        11       $3.7 billion, of which $3.6 billion is

        12       representative from stimulus money.  That

        13       money is for highways and bridges and capital

        14       infrastructure.  Additionally, $20 million has

        15       been added to transit aid, which does reflect

        16       a 2 percent cut.  $112 million was added for

        17       local roads and bridges, and $100 million

        18       fully restored multimodal portion of the

        19       budget.

        20                  Now I would be prepared to take a

        21       question.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        23       Senator Fuschillo.

        24                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you



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         1       very much, Senator Kruger.  I appreciate that.

         2                  There's about 200 pages of

         3       Department of Transportation funding here.

         4       What's the total amount?

         5                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    I believe

         6       it's $10.7 billion, if my memory serves me

         7       correctly.

         8                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you.

         9                  Would the Senator yield for another

        10       question?

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        12       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

        13                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,

        14       Mr. President.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        16       Senator yields.

        17                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you

        18       very much, Mr. President.

        19                  Senator Kruger, of that amount,

        20       what is debt, what is bonded out, what is cash

        21       of that 10 -- you had said $10 billion?

        22                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Right.

        23       Just one moment, Mr. President.

        24                  Senator, in answer to your



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         1       question, the dollars that we're talking about

         2       is basically appropriation authority and not

         3       necessarily reflective of actual cash.  It's

         4       in the debt service bill, which we will be

         5       doing a little later.

         6                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Okay.  Will

         7       Senator Kruger please yield for a question?

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         9       Senator, do you continue to yield?

        10                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        12       Senator yields.

        13                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you,

        14       Senator.

        15                  So of the 10 billion, what is being

        16       bonded out?

        17                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Your

        18       indulgence, Mr. President.  One moment while

        19       we put together our . . .

        20                  Through you, Mr. President.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Yes,

        22       Senator Kruger.

        23                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Without

        24       exact numbers -- which I certainly, as we go



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         1       forward with the debate, I'll be able to

         2       supply.  But it's approximately $7 billion.

         3                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you,

         4       Senator.

         5                  Mr. President, will Senator Kruger

         6       continue to yield?

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         8       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

         9                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes,

        10       Mr. President.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        12       Senator yields.

        13                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you,

        14       Mr. President.  Thank you, Senator Kruger.

        15                  So we're adding $7 billion of debt

        16       to the State of New York?

        17                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        18       you, Mr. President.  No, in fact, not all of

        19       that is bonded.

        20                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Okay.  Well,

        21       Mr. President, will Senator Kruger please

        22       yield?

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        24       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?



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         1                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         3       Senator yields.

         4                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you,

         5       Mr. President.  Senator Kruger, thank you.

         6                  I had asked the question of the

         7       $10 billion that you had mentioned is in this

         8       200 pages of the bill that's on our desk.  Am

         9       I correct that you came back to me with an

        10       answer that you said $7 billion will be bonded

        11       out, out of the 10 billion?  And then I had a

        12       question for you, is that what we're adding to

        13       the state debt, another $7 billion?

        14                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        15       you, Mr. President.  Firstly, it's not in one

        16       year, it's spread out over a number of years.

        17       And not all of it is reflected in that

        18       $7 billion number.

        19                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

        20       President, will the Senator continue to yield?

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        22       Senator, do you continue to yield?

        23                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,

        24       Mr. President.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         2       Senator yields.

         3                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Senator

         4       Kruger, debt is debt.  Whether it's today,

         5       tomorrow, next year or five years from now,

         6       it's still debt.

         7                  I just want to -- before we move on

         8       to a few other questions, I'll ask the

         9       question again.  You had said that -- through

        10       your counsel -- that these 200 pages add up to

        11       $10 billion in this budget bill that we're

        12       being considered right now.  And I had asked

        13       the question how much of the 10 billion is

        14       debt.  And you had said $7 billion, but you

        15       said not all of that, because it's the

        16       outyears.

        17                  So I'll just simplify my question.

        18       Of the $10 billion, how much is that of debt

        19       to the State of New York?

        20                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        21       you, Mr. President.  Again, Senator, when

        22       we're talking about the $7 billion worth of

        23       debt --

        24                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Debt.



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         1                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    -- capital,

         2       I'm sorry, this is something that's spread out

         3       over a number of years.  It's not something

         4       that we're totally expending in 2009-2010.

         5                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Okay.  So,

         6       Mr. President, so debt is debt.  So it's

         7       $7 billion.  I'll take that as an answer.

         8                  Would Senator Kruger continue to

         9       yield for a question?

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        11       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

        12                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,

        13       Mr. President.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        15       Senator yields.

        16                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you,

        17       Mr. President.  Thank you, Senator.

        18                  You had mentioned in your opening

        19       statement when you gave the chambers a brief

        20       on the transportation package that

        21       $112 million is for local roads.  Is that

        22       correct?

        23                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Roads and

        24       bridges, yes.



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         1                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Would the

         2       Senator continue to yield?

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         4       Senator, will you yield?

         5                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

         6                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Is that

         7       $112 million broken out into regions in the

         8       budget?  And if so, could you tell us what

         9       regions are getting what?

        10                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        11       you, Mr. President.  The package that we're

        12       talking about is approximately $361 or

        13       $362 million overall.  $112 million is what

        14       was restoration from the Executive, cuts from

        15       the Executive.

        16                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

        17       President, through you, would Senator Kruger

        18       continue to yield?

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        20       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

        21                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        23       Senator yields.

        24                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you,



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         1       Mr. President.  Thank you, Senator Kruger.

         2                  No, I understand that, and that's

         3       how I started my question off, with what you

         4       stated when you briefed the chamber, is that

         5       $112 million is for roads and bridges.

         6                  My question, and I'll ask you

         7       again, is that $112 million broken down in the

         8       budget that you're asking us to vote on by

         9       regions throughout the state?  And if so, what

        10       is each region receiving of the $112 million

        11       for roads, highways, and bridges?

        12                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        13       you, Mr. President.  Senator, those runs are

        14       being calculated by DOT, and they will be

        15       available.

        16                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Okay.

        17       Mr. President, through you, would Senator

        18       Kruger continue to yield?

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        20       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

        21                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,

        22       Mr. President.

        23                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you.

        24       Thank you, Senator Kruger.



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         1                  So in the document we're looking at

         2       now, that $112 million is not broken down into

         3       regions; is that correct?

         4                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

         5       you, Mr. President.  Once again, DOT, under

         6       their own rules and regulations and law, will

         7       be breaking this down by region and it will be

         8       part of those runs.

         9                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Okay.  So

        10       I'll take that as an answer that it's not.

        11                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    That's your

        12       prerogative.

        13                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

        14       President, through you, would Senator Kruger

        15       continue to yield?

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        17       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

        18                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        20       Senator yields.

        21                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you

        22       very much, Mr. President.  Senator Kruger,

        23       thank you.

        24                  You had mentioned in your briefing



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         1       to this chamber that $100 million of that pot

         2       is for multimodal projects.  Is that being

         3       broken down and lined out in the document

         4       before us in regions throughout the State of

         5       New York?

         6                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Okay.

         7       Through you, Mr. President.  Firstly, that's

         8       not part of the $112 million.  That is the

         9       100 million restored out of the multimodal.

        10       And that would be part of a grant formula that

        11       would be submitted by the localities to DOT.

        12                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you

        13       very much.  Would the Senator continue to

        14       yield?

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        16       Senator, do you yield?

        17                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,

        18       Mr. President.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        20       Senator yields.

        21                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Senator,

        22       could you talk about what happened to CHIPS

        23       funding in this budget?

        24                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes.



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         1       Through you, Mr. President.  The CHIPS, I

         2       believe, Senator, you're talking about the

         3       $112 million for local roads and bridges?

         4                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    No.

         5                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes,

         6       that -- through you, Mr. President.

         7                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    If that's

         8       your answer.  Is that your answer?

         9                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    That's my

        10       answer.

        11                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Okay.

        12       Through you, Mr. President.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        14       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

        15                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        17       Senator yields.

        18                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    I'm not

        19       talking about the $112 million, I'm talking

        20       about over $300 million in CHIPS funding that

        21       I believe was restored.  My question to you

        22       is, how much of that is bonding indebtedness

        23       to the State of New York?

        24                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through



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         1       you, Mr. President, $3.6 million.

         2                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.

         3       President, will the Senator continue to yield?

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         5       Senator, do you yield?

         6                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         8       Senator yields.

         9                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Senator,

        10       $3.6 million of $363 million is what's bonded

        11       out?  Is that correct?  Is that your answer,

        12       1 percent?

        13                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        14       you, Mr. President.  It's all bonded.  My

        15       mistake.  3.6 represents cash out.

        16                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you

        17       very much.  I appreciate that.

        18                  Let's talk about the MTA, Senator

        19       Kruger.  Does this package include any new

        20       funding to the MTA?

        21                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        22       you, Mr. President.  No, it does not.

        23                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Okay.

        24       Mr. President, would the Senator continue to



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         1       yield?

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         3       Senator, do you yield?

         4                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,

         5       Mr. President.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         7       Senator yields.

         8                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you

         9       very much.

        10                  Does this package on our desks

        11       contain an MTA bailout program that's been

        12       talked about so much?

        13                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        14       you, Mr. President.  No, it does not.

        15                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Okay.  Would

        16       the Senator continue to yield?  And thank you.

        17                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        19       Senator yields.

        20                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you,

        21       Senator Kruger.

        22                  Let's talk about the Dedicated

        23       Highway, Bridge and Trust Fund collected in

        24       this budget.  What are the dollar amounts that



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         1       would be collected?

         2                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    For

         3       clarification, through you, Mr. President.

         4       Collected or disbursed?

         5                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Both.  You

         6       can take part one.  Collected.  Collected.

         7                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Back to the

         8       chorus.  Collected?  Through you, Mr.

         9       President.  Again, approximate numbers.

        10       Approximate collected, $5 billion.  Disbursed,

        11       $5 billion.  Cash in, cash out.

        12                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you

        13       very much, Senator.

        14                  Would the Senator continue to

        15       yield, Mr. President?

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        17       Senator, do you continue to yield?

        18                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,

        19       Mr. President.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        21       Senator yields.

        22                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you,

        23       Senator Kruger.  Of that amount, how much will

        24       actually be used for construction purposes?



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         1                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

         2       you, Mr. President, approximately

         3       $1.8 billion.

         4                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you

         5       very much, Senator.

         6                  Mr. President, would the Senator

         7       continue to yield?

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         9       Senator, do you yield?

        10                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,

        11       Mr. President.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        13       Senator yields.

        14                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Senator

        15       Kruger, thank you.  Final question.  Are there

        16       any tax credits for any aviation programs or

        17       initiatives throughout the state in this

        18       package here?

        19                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        20       you, Mr. President.  No, not in this bill,

        21       Senator.

        22                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Final

        23       question, Mr. President.  Will he continue to

        24       yield?



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         2       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

         3                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Cross your

         4       heart?

         5                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Are you

         6       asking me a question?

         7                  (Laughter.)

         8                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Senator

         9       Kruger, last night Senator Smith, your

        10       Majority Leader, stated that this budget will

        11       create --

        12                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Mr. President.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        14       Senator Libous, why do you rise?

        15                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    I apologize, but

        16       for some reason I cannot hear Senator

        17       Fuschillo.  If Senator Fuschillo could speak a

        18       little louder, please.

        19                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    I'll be happy

        20       to, Senator Libous.

        21                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you,

        22       Mr. President.

        23                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Senator

        24       Kruger, last night I was watching a program



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         1       where Senator Smith, your Majority Leader, was

         2       on TV and talked about how this budget will

         3       create 50,000 new construction jobs in the

         4       transportation field.

         5                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Excuse me.

         6       Can you repeat that, Senator?  I'm sorry.

         7                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Sure.

         8       Majority Leader Smith stated last night that

         9       50,000 new transportation jobs will be

        10       created.  Can you tell me how we will find

        11       50,000 new transportation jobs?

        12                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        13       you, Mr. President.  Firstly, I did not see

        14       that TV program, so I can't comment.

        15                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Okay.  Thank

        16       you very much, Senator Krueger.

        17                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Thank you,

        18       Senator.

        19                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    On the bill.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        21       Senator Fuschillo, on the bill.

        22                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    It concerns

        23       me greatly that there are so many individuals

        24       out in my region on Long Island, and other



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         1       regions throughout this state, that work on

         2       our highways, roads and bridges that are out

         3       of work and have been out of work for a long

         4       time because the Governor essentially has

         5       frozen all projections.

         6                  And I appreciate the response from

         7       the chair of the Finance Committee, but it's a

         8       great concern to me that this budget does not

         9       spell out where the money for roads and

        10       bridges is going and for multimodal projects.

        11       And it looks like it's just a pot of money

        12       that's out there at the whim of this Governor

        13       to present to where he thinks it is deemed

        14       fit.

        15                  Now, on Long Island the Governor

        16       has talked about filling -- bringing down

        17       $154 million in transportation projects.  But

        18       last year, we still have $154 million in

        19       projects that haven't been funded that are

        20       shovel-ready and ready to go and put people

        21       back to work.

        22                  This year on Long Island, according

        23       to the DOT regional director, there's another

        24       $250 and $300 million in projects that are



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         1       necessary to maintain the infrastructure, and

         2       they're not being addressed in this budget.

         3       They're not being addressed in these 200 pages

         4       of a $10 billion document that's going to cost

         5       the state more than $7 billion in

         6       indebtedness.  Whether it's today or tomorrow,

         7       a year from now or two years from now, debt is

         8       debt.

         9                  So we're voting on a package that's

        10       going to increase the state's debt by

        11       $7 billion out of $10 billion, and the other

        12       part of the money is just being passed through

        13       from the federal government.  So the state is

        14       not putting up anything.  We're saying to our

        15       children and grandchildren and everybody in

        16       this room and the 19 million people in the

        17       State of New York:  Sure, we're going to give

        18       you money for roads and bridges, but you're

        19       going to be paying for it for the rest of your

        20       life because we're not putting any cash in

        21       this budget, it's all bonded out to the tune

        22       of $7 billion.

        23                  Thank you very much, Mr. President.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank



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         1       you, Senator Fuschillo.

         2                  Senator Winner.

         3                  SENATOR WINNER:    Thank you,

         4       Mr. President.

         5                  You know, the title of this bill

         6       that we're dealing with is Transportation,

         7       Economic Development, and Environmental

         8       Conservation.  And I'd like to speak a little

         9       bit on this bill with regard to the economic

        10       development or lack thereof that really is

        11       contained in this year's budget.

        12                  I heard Senator Stachowski attempt

        13       to gloss over the devastation that is being

        14       done in this proposal as it relates to the

        15       Empire Zone program.  And I just would like to

        16       follow up by indicating that, you know, not

        17       too long ago in this state we listened to a

        18       campaign in 2006, fall, for the Governor's

        19       race, where the upstate economy was the

        20       clarion call of then-Candidate Spitzer.  And

        21       certainly that clarion call was one of the

        22       reasons why a lot of people in upstate

        23       New York rallied around his candidacy and

        24       suggested that we have economic development



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         1       and upstate efforts improved to a significant

         2       degree.

         3                  And, you know, we listened for a

         4       whole year with an upstate development

         5       revitalization fund proposal.  We listened to

         6       all kinds of calls for assisting the upstate

         7       economy and mandate relief and other types of

         8       efforts -- Power for Jobs, these other

         9       incentives that we were trying to offer here

        10       to try to get what was characterized as a

        11       moribund upstate economy moving again.

        12                  And we thought that we were going

        13       to make some progress, only to hit the wall,

        14       not only with Governor Spitzer not being able

        15       to deliver on many of those promises but in

        16       fact now, with this budget and with the

        17       proposals that Governor Paterson and the

        18       Majority has put together, we have a

        19       non-economic development package here that is

        20       obviously going wreak havoc with any types of

        21       efforts to revitalize our upstate economy as

        22       well as the economy of the whole State of

        23       New York.

        24                  You know, in the first State of the



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         1       State address from the Governor we heard that,

         2       and I quote:  "Most importantly, we must lower

         3       the cost of doing business in New York.

         4       Property taxes are too high.  We should cap

         5       them.  State mandates are too burdensome.  We

         6       should relief them.  Local government is too

         7       costly.  We should help it become more

         8       efficient.  And we must also reaffirm to our

         9       commitment to specific programs and projects

        10       targeted at revitalizing upstate."

        11                  Now, those were nice words.  And

        12       when his budget proposal came out, he actually

        13       made some specific proposals.  He specifically

        14       included a new $50 million New York Growth,

        15       Achievement and Investment Strategy, a GAINS

        16       fund; a new research and development tax

        17       credit; and an expansion of the existing

        18       research and development tax credit.

        19                  You know, then all of a sudden, on

        20       March 29, when this agreement was announced

        21       and the legislative leaders or the three

        22       New York City Democrats came out of the room

        23       and announced that they had a budget, what was

        24       in there with regard to those items?  Not a



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         1       single one.  Not only wasn't a single one of

         2       them in there, but many of the proposals that

         3       he had advanced with regard to his so-called

         4       reform of the Empire Zones were in fact in

         5       there.  And those reforms are going to do

         6       nothing other than devastate the ability to

         7       try to be competitive in New York State for

         8       economic development.

         9                  Let's go back for a minute.  Why do

        10       we have an Empire Zone program?  Why did we

        11       have one in the early '80s when we developed

        12       this in order to create an economic

        13       development fund, a zones program?  We did so

        14       because New York State was uncompetitive when

        15       it came to attracting business and industry.

        16                  And why were we uncompetitive?  And

        17       what are the major factors that we have to

        18       deal with when it comes to economic

        19       development and to try to develop new

        20       businesses in this state?  We have -- the

        21       major costs are what?  Health insurance,

        22       personal income tax costs, energy costs, real

        23       property tax payments?  Those are the major

        24       costs that businesses experience in trying to



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         1       determine where they're going to go.

         2                  And what does this state do?  This

         3       state has the highest energy costs practically

         4       in the country, in the continental United

         5       States.  And what are we going to do in this

         6       budget?  We're going to increase them even

         7       more.

         8                  We're now going to have a personal

         9       income tax increase that will be

        10       noncompetitive, particularly along our border

        11       states.  We have health insurance costs that

        12       now we're going to increase by taxing the

        13       premiums and the so-called covered lives

        14       assessments.  And on and on and on.

        15                  Our real property tax levies are

        16       uncompetitive, as we all know, the highest

        17       state and local combined tax burden in the

        18       country.

        19                  So that's why we have to have a

        20       competitive program, incentive program, with

        21       which to try to entice whoever is foolish

        22       enough to consider New York as a site to do

        23       business, we have to entice them with the

        24       ability to mitigate against those costs.  And



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         1       that's why we had an Empire Zone program which

         2       was designed to deal with those elements of

         3       the cost of doing business in New York State.

         4                  It's unfortunate we have to have an

         5       Empire Zone program.  But we certainly have to

         6       if we're going to be at all competitive and

         7       attract anybody in here.

         8                  So what did we do this year?  We

         9       did the so-called reform of the Empire Zone

        10       program.  The only economic development tool

        11       that we have upstate to try to mitigate

        12       against those high costs, what did we do?  We

        13       have effectively gutted it and put it out of

        14       business.  We have expedited the sunset date

        15       by one year.  We have minimized the real

        16       property benefit that it will produce, one of

        17       the major noncompetitive items we have.  We

        18       have eliminated the ability of new Empire Zone

        19       designees to be able to take full benefit of

        20       the sales-tax exemptions, another

        21       noncompetitive item.

        22                  And we have certainly, now, with

        23       the 20-to-1 ratio proposal, eliminated almost

        24       all of the Empire Zone-eligible businesses



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         1       that had previously received benefits in most

         2       of the upstate Empire Zone boundaries.

         3                  So for anybody to get on this floor

         4       and suggest that these are reasonable

         5       reforms -- these are measures that are

         6       designed to eliminate the Empire Zone program

         7       and eliminate its effectiveness and make our

         8       state back in the dark ages of

         9       noncompetitiveness, as we were in the past and

        10       we were in the early '80s.

        11                  This is a disaster, this proposal.

        12       And it is the most anti-upstate New York

        13       proposal that I have seen in my 31 years of

        14       elected office in New York State.

        15                  And I think that this measure

        16       should certainly go back to the drawing board.

        17       And in a later bill, where there is specific

        18       language with regard to the Empire Zone

        19       program, we will be offering an amendment to

        20       so do so.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank

        22       you, Senator Winner.

        23                  Senator Nozzolio.

        24                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you,



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         1       Mr. President.  Mr. President, will Senator

         2       Kruger yield?

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         4       Senator Kruger, do you yield?

         5                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,

         6       Mr. President.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         8       Senator yields.

         9                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you very

        10       much, Senator Kruger, for yielding.

        11                  My question gets back to Senator

        12       Fuschillo's question to you about Senator

        13       Malcolm Smith's comments last evening.  I had

        14       the particular program TiVo'd so I could play

        15       it back.  And I had to play it back two or

        16       three times because I could not believe what I

        17       heard.  Senator Smith indicated that the

        18       transportation portion of this budget would

        19       create 50,000 jobs.

        20                  Now, Senator Kruger, I respect

        21       certainly the fact that you said you did not

        22       see the program and you deferred comment on

        23       that program.  But let me ask you this through

        24       the chair.  Would Senator Kruger advise this



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         1       house how many jobs will be created by the

         2       transportation budget?

         3                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

         4       you, Mr. President, let me try to expand on

         5       that question if that's okay with you,

         6       Senator.

         7                  For every million dollars that we

         8       put into transit and ground passenger

         9       transportation, we create, by industry

        10       standards, approximately 31 jobs in all

        11       industries throughout the state.  Likewise,

        12       for every million dollars that we put into

        13       construction, 15 jobs are created in

        14       industries throughout the state.  Thus, the

        15       $1.4 billion in mass transit stimulus money

        16       would create approximately 44,000 new jobs --

        17       or, rather, 44,000 jobs in all the industrial

        18       sectors throughout the state.

        19                  The $1.1 billion in stimulus money

        20       for roads and bridges, which are entirely for

        21       construction -- which we don't have the means,

        22       by the way, of breaking down what would be for

        23       engineering, concrete, steel, and the other

        24       components -- would create over 16,000 jobs in



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         1       all industries.

         2                  Thus, we have a total job creation

         3       of over 60,000 jobs for the $2.5 billion in

         4       stimulus money that is guaranteed by this

         5       state upon the passage of this budget.

         6                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you,

         7       Senator Kruger.

         8                  Mr. President, on the bill.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        10       Senator Nozzolio, on the bill.

        11                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Thank you.

        12                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    I believe part

        13       of the equation missing from the discussion of

        14       transportation jobs should be an analysis of

        15       how the moving van companies of this state

        16       will benefit by the budget that we're passing

        17       over the next 48 hours.  Because there will be

        18       more people moving out of this state as a

        19       result of the higher taxes, of the higher

        20       spending, of the lack of economic development,

        21       of the trashing of the Empire Zone program.

        22                  Senator Winner indicated his

        23       concerns for economic development,

        24       particularly for upstate manufacturers.  The



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         1       largest number of manufacturing jobs to come

         2       into New York State over the last two and a

         3       half decades, over the last 25 years came to

         4       the Central Finger Lakes, in Geneva, New York,

         5       in the late 1990s, in large part because of

         6       the Empire Zone program as it existed, as it

         7       exists prior to the trashing of the program

         8       that this budget will create.

         9                  That company is Guardian Glass, and

        10       they're located in Geneva.  But their

        11       headquarters is in Michigan.  And they are now

        12       looking at whether or not to expand their

        13       plant and invest $17 million into that plant

        14       that's in the Geneva Empire Zone.  They are

        15       going to be thinking two and three times

        16       because of this budget that is before us this

        17       evening.

        18                  There's another factory that's on

        19       the border of my district in Cayuga County

        20       that's in Senator Valesky's district, owned by

        21       Owens Illinois, an Ohio company.  Again, a

        22       glass manufacturer that is considering whether

        23       or not to invest an additional $25 million

        24       into new technology and to retrofit some of



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         1       their manufacturing facility in Cayuga County.

         2       As a result of this Empire Zone trashing that

         3       is now before us, they may make a decision to

         4       the contrary and not invest in New York State.

         5                  And there are countless other

         6       projects across this state that are in

         7       jeopardy because of what is put forward and

         8       what we are voting on today.

         9                  Senator Young had brought up the

        10       issue of agriculture, and I'd like to present

        11       some of my remarks on that portion of the

        12       debate this evening.  And it's a question of

        13       priority.  Senator DeFrancisco mentioned other

        14       elements of the state budget that were

        15       increased as a result of the proposal before

        16       us today.

        17                  The question of priority is this.

        18       There is one number-one industry in New York

        19       State.  Only one can be number one.  And most

        20       New Yorkers don't know that agriculture is our

        21       number-one industry.  Most people outside of

        22       New York are surprised to learn that

        23       agriculture is the number-one job producer in

        24       New York.  We have developed the science to



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         1       develop the agriculture, the value added that

         2       puts us ahead of not only agriculture

         3       enterprise in other states but all the

         4       agricultural enterprise in the world.

         5                  America no longer makes the best or

         6       most competitive automobiles.  We no longer

         7       compete as successfully on the world and

         8       global marketplace as we used to with

         9       manufacturing and other products.  But our

        10       agricultural commodities are still extremely

        11       competitive.  And yet what happened in this

        12       budget is that the priority for the number-one

        13       job-producing industry has basically been cast

        14       aside.  We're spending $5 million in this

        15       budget for community-based organizations for

        16       eviction-prevention services.  Now, eviction

        17       prevention means we can send out a note today:

        18       You won't be evicted if you pay your rent.

        19       That's great eviction-prevention services.

        20                  Frankly, though, that $5 million

        21       that goes to community-based organizations --

        22       and where have we heard those words before --

        23       those community-based organizations may want

        24       to focus on the farmers of this state because



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         1       our farmers are going to be evicted and

         2       foreclosed because of the crisis that they're

         3       now being confronted with.

         4                  The Majority could have easily

         5       taken part of that eviction community-based

         6       services and support agriculture.  Or, as

         7       Senator Young said, that $1 billion from the

         8       federal government to say that we want to keep

         9       our New York State agriculture more

        10       competitive than any other agriculture in the

        11       world.

        12                  I find it ironic, and sadly so,

        13       when Senator Kruger said the days of wine and

        14       roses in New York State are over.  Well, the

        15       days of growing roses is challenged.  And the

        16       days of wine in New York State I guess are

        17       still there, but we're going to be taxing wine

        18       at a higher rate, almost a 30 percent increase

        19       in the tax of wine, because of this

        20       legislation, this bill that we're going to be

        21       having before us.

        22                  So the answer is, from the other

        23       side of the aisle -- an answer that we really

        24       didn't know about until fewer than 36 hours



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         1       ago -- that the answer on their side of the

         2       aisle, more taxes.  The answer on the other

         3       side of the aisle is spending in areas that

         4       don't produce jobs but, rather, take jobs

         5       away, that don't support our agriculture, the

         6       number-one industry of our state --

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Excuse

         8       me, Senator Nozzolio.  Excuse me, Senator

         9       Nozzolio.

        10                  Senator Krueger, why do you rise?

        11                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Will

        12       Senator Nozzolio please yield for a question?

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        14       Senator Nozzolio, do you yield?

        15                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Mr. President,

        16       I've been waiting to say this for so long.  I

        17       would be happy to yield to Senator Krueger

        18       when I'm finished with my remarks.

        19                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        20                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Mr. President

        21       and my colleagues, agriculture is the

        22       number-one industry, it's the number-one

        23       industry because we support its science, we

        24       support the fact that it is a job developer



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         1       because in fact we compete on a global

         2       marketplace.

         3                  And whether it's apples that are

         4       grown in Wayne County or Madison County,

         5       whether it's the protection and marketing of

         6       our beef producers' products, whether it's

         7       science developed at the Cornell College of

         8       Agriculture or the Experiment Station in

         9       Geneva, it needs to be supported as a

        10       priority.  And the priority is missing.  It's

        11       absent by what's being presented to us today.

        12                  In spite of the fact that Senator

        13       DeFrancisco pointed out there is a horrendous

        14       growth in spending, way over $10 billion of

        15       additional spending over last year.  And that

        16       that spending, in effect, seems to be missing

        17       when it comes to the number-one industry of

        18       our state.

        19                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank

        21       you, Senator Nozzolio.

        22                  Do you now yield to Senator Liz

        23       Krueger?

        24                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you,



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         1       Mr. President.  Yes, I do.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         3       Senator yields.

         4                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

         5       Senator Nozzolio.

         6                  My understanding was we were

         7       discussing the TEDE bill, and you were

         8       discussing agriculture.  So where in the bill

         9       is the $5 million for eviction-prevention

        10       services?

        11                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Senator

        12       Krueger, where is it?

        13                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Yes, sir.

        14                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    As we

        15       understand it, it is under some select

        16       discretionary American Recovery and

        17       Reinvestment Act spending.  That I'm not

        18       certain exactly what section of the budget

        19       that is in, but it is one of the enumerated

        20       projects listed in that portion of the budget.

        21                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Senator

        22       Nozzolio, it's possible that in fact we're

        23       talking about the ELFA bill, where there is in

        24       fact social services funding for eviction



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         1       prevention.  And it's possible that we're

         2       talking about the federal stimulus money which

         3       has some, quote, homelessness prevention

         4       monies that gets passed through the state.

         5                  Would you agree that might be where

         6       it is?

         7                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    There

         8       certainly are a lot of possibilities, Senator

         9       Krueger.

        10                  My issue, though, is not where that

        11       money is or even the criteria for its

        12       particular spending.  My issue is a question

        13       of priority.  And of all this money coming to

        14       the State of New York from the federal

        15       government, it seems as though the stimulation

        16       of our number-one industry, which produces the

        17       most amount of jobs in our state, certainly

        18       should not be absent.

        19                  And that whether our Congressional

        20       delegation should have gotten a clearer signal

        21       that we wanted more support for agriculture,

        22       or whether this budget, which was debated by

        23       your conference in the most egregious of

        24       ways -- there was absolutely no transparency



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         1       in any of the discussions -- there were no

         2       discussions.  There was no debate.  There was

         3       no presentation of positions until the latest

         4       of times.

         5                  Because of that, we at this 12th

         6       hour are being displayed here a budget that

         7       shows misplaced priorities.  It's up to you,

         8       the proponents of this budget, to tell us why

         9       you decided to place the priorities away from

        10       the number-one industry of our state.

        11                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        12                  Mr. President, if through you the

        13       Senator would continue to yield.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        15       Senator Nozzolio, do you continue to yield?

        16                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you,

        17       Mr. President.  I'd be happy to yield.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        19       Senator yields.

        20                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        21                  Again, the reason I rose was my

        22       belief that in fact there was an incorrect

        23       assumption on the floor that somehow

        24       agriculture, environment or transportation



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         1       money was, quote unquote, being taken for

         2       eviction prevention, because I don't believe

         3       we are taking any money of this bill for

         4       eviction prevention.

         5                  But my question to you, Senator, is

         6       do you really believe that in a horrendous

         7       economic crisis where we are seeing people

         8       lose their homes daily, where we are seeing

         9       families at risk of having their children

        10       taken away from them because they are evicted

        11       from their homes, and where we have, at least

        12       in my district, a disproportionately large

        13       number of elderly people who are at risk of

        14       losing that their homes, that it is actually a

        15       bad use of $5 million of government money --

        16       not even within the bill we're discussing

        17       tonight -- being used to help assure that

        18       families with children and elderly people can

        19       stay in their homes?

        20                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Mr. President,

        21       through you.  That it would be wonderful if

        22       Senator Krueger would explain to this body

        23       where that money is coming from, what that

        24       money is going to be used for, where is that



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         1       money going to be spent, how much of that

         2       money is going to be spent in Yates County,

         3       Seneca County, Schuyler County, Cayuga County,

         4       Wayne County, even Monroe County.  How much of

         5       those funds are going to be going north of the

         6       Tappan Zee Bridge?  How much of those funds

         7       are going to be distributed to Buffalo and

         8       Albany and the upstate region?

         9                  If Senator Krueger pro-offers this

        10       as an expenditure that should be made instead

        11       of agricultural support, then Senator Krueger

        12       is obligated to delineate the exact source and

        13       distribution of those funds.

        14                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Mr.

        15       President, may I answer the question?  I

        16       believe I'm asked a question.  So I'm not sure

        17       if I should ask the Senator to yield or I

        18       should be happy to answer his question.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Well,

        20       he actually was answering your question.  So

        21       if you would like him to continue to yield,

        22       that would be appropriate.

        23                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Senator,

        24       will you yield so I may answer your question?



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         2       Senator Nozzolio, do you continue to yield?

         3                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    I'll be happy

         4       to yield.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         6       Senator yields.

         7                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you

         8       very much, Mr. President.

         9                  Yes, I would be delighted to talk

        10       about the monies.  Primarily there's two pots

        11       of funds -- again, not in this bill, so it's

        12       not in an either/or.  We are not taking money

        13       from agriculture or the environment or

        14       transportation to shift to social services.

        15                  There is federal money for

        16       homelessness prevention, approximately

        17       $142 million, in the stimulus package.  There

        18       is a formula.  Each and every county of the

        19       State of New York will get a share of that

        20       money, primarily through their social services

        21       departments, although they may contract it

        22       out, again, to not-for-profit organizations.

        23                  And in fact through the TANF,

        24       Temporary Assistance to Needy Families funds,



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         1       both the emergency and contingency funds

         2       through federal stimulus and ongoing TANF

         3       money that's a federal mandated program, we

         4       have funded for a significant number of years

         5       approximately $5 to $10 million in

         6       eviction-prevention contracts that also is

         7       distributed.  Again, some of them are

         8       specifically to the City of New York, and

         9       other monies are distributed through county

        10       social services.

        11                  I would hazard to guess there is no

        12       county in the state that doesn't provide some

        13       kind of eviction-prevention services through

        14       some kind of government monies, because what

        15       they have learned is it is much more

        16       cost-effective to prevent a family from losing

        17       their home and ending up homeless, it is much

        18       more cost-effective to prevent a senior

        19       citizen from losing their home.  And in fact,

        20       too often senior citizens may end up in

        21       hospitals or nursing homes if they lose their

        22       homes.

        23                  I can speak at length, if you like,

        24       about the eviction-prevention services in



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         1       New York City because in fact, before the year

         2       2000, when I left my job to run for the

         3       New York State Senate, I actually had a

         4       contract to run eviction-prevention services

         5       in the City of New York under contract with

         6       the government.

         7                  And I can tell you that we saw

         8       thousands of families per year who had

         9       children -- under our contract, it was serving

        10       families with children -- who were at risk of

        11       losing their home and losing their children to

        12       the child welfare system and ending up in the

        13       shelter system.  And we had at that time --

        14       and again, it's quite a few years ago -- but a

        15       minimum of a 20-to-1 ratio of cost savings to

        16       government by preventing people from losing

        17       their homes.

        18                  Obviously in your district there

        19       would be different issues with eviction

        20       prevention than perhaps in Senator Lanza's

        21       district or in some other Senator's district.

        22       But unfortunately in every county of New York

        23       State, and every Senate district, there are

        24       some number of people who find themselves at



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         1       risk of eviction for some reason.  And if they

         2       lose that home, pretty much guarantee it will

         3       cost the government far more than it spends.

         4                  And again, I'd be happy to debate

         5       the issue further when we get to the ELFA

         6       budget, where in fact those dollars and cents

         7       are.  But again, I just for the record want to

         8       make clear there is no proposal to take money

         9       out of the TEDE bill to use it for social

        10       services.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        12       Senator Krueger, did you have a question for

        13       Senator Nozzolio?

        14                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    No, my

        15       question was to agree to answer his question.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        17       Senator Nozzolio, you still have the floor.

        18                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you,

        19       Mr. President.  Continuing on the bill.

        20                  Thank you, Senator Krueger, for

        21       your elaboration of those services.  Frankly,

        22       Senator Krueger's expertise in eviction

        23       prevention is going to be sorely needed in the

        24       upstate region because of those who haven't



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         1       found the appropriate moving van to move out

         2       of New York State as a result of higher taxes,

         3       greater regulation, and lack of support for

         4       agriculture.

         5                  There are going to be farmers who

         6       are still here who will be evicted --

         7       foreclosed may be a more appropriate

         8       comment -- because there is not sufficient

         9       support for them in a massive federal stimulus

        10       package that in effect the other side of the

        11       aisle --

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Excuse

        13       me, Senator Nozzolio.  Excuse me for one just

        14       one moment.

        15                  Senator Stachowski, why do you

        16       rise?

        17                  SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    I was

        18       wondering if Senator Nozzolio would yield for

        19       a question.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        21       Senator Nozzolio, do you yield?

        22                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    I'd be happy

        23       to yield to Senator Stachowski.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The



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         1       Senator yields.

         2                  SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Senator

         3       Nozzolio, I listened with great interest as

         4       you talked about a couple of manufacturing

         5       companies that will now be hurt because of

         6       changes made in this budget to the Empire

         7       Zones.  And my question would be is the

         8       changes made would now make the goal they have

         9       to reach 1 to 1.  The average manufacturing

        10       company hits 7 to 1, 6 to 1, 8 to 1, 14 to 1,

        11       but they don't hit 20 to 1 that the Governor

        12       had in his budget on a lookback.

        13                  And so that that change is made to

        14       try to make it better for manufacturing

        15       companies.  And the change on the date moves

        16       it up a year or actually maybe a few more

        17       months than that, it might be 18 months.  So

        18       that a new program that recognizes that

        19       manufacturing companies have certain

        20       difficulties hitting numbers like 20 to 1 and

        21       that other industries like biotechs have

        22       trouble hitting 20 to 1 no matter how

        23       successful they are.

        24                  So the reason for that move-up of



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         1       the date, rather than to decimate the program,

         2       was to put in a new program that's currently

         3       being worked on by all the economic

         4       development groups from across the state, from

         5       Buffalo to Rochester to Syracuse to New York

         6       City to Albany.  They're all involved, along

         7       with the Business Council, working with the

         8       Governor's people, trying to come together

         9       with a multipronged system that doesn't just

        10       base it on location and on a 20-to-1 lookback,

        11       which the Governor's proposal did.  And this

        12       proposal in this budget doesn't.

        13                  So the reality is that your

        14       manufacturing company should have no trouble

        15       meeting 1 to 1.  The question is, are you

        16       aware of that, that the alternative was to let

        17       the Governor's plan stand with a 20-to-1

        18       lookback?

        19                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    In response,

        20       through you, Mr. President, that Senator

        21       Stachowski, who himself was an athlete well

        22       into the college years, knows very well that

        23       to play a game, that if the rules are changed

        24       in the middle of the game it creates havoc for



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         1       the teams that are on the field.

         2                  Imagine a company that decided to

         3       invest multimillions of dollars in New York

         4       State.  And then to have the zone program

         5       dramatically altered in the middle of their

         6       operations here creates a great amount of

         7       confusion and does not inspire investment into

         8       New York State.

         9                  And that is the problem here,

        10       Senator, that the lack of continuity and

        11       consistency creates confusion.  And that

        12       confusion tells the corporate headquarters,

        13       whether they be in Michigan or Ohio or

        14       someplace else, that New York is not a

        15       reliable state to be able to invest in the

        16       future.

        17                  And yes, this may be a more

        18       favorable result than what the Governor or

        19       others had originally proposed, but it still

        20       creates a great deal of uncertainty.  There's

        21       uncertainty, as Senator Winner said, in the

        22       program itself, which in terms of its

        23       existence is -- in terms of its length of

        24       duration is changed by this legislation, as



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         1       well as the amount of ability to have

         2       certainty in recertification.

         3                  A company that may be in a zone

         4       today, already invested hundreds of millions

         5       of dollars, will now have in terms of

         6       reinvestment, in growing new jobs in New York

         7       State, in making additional commitment to the

         8       state, will have question about whether the

         9       state is going to be consistent in their

        10       commitment back.

        11                  So that's the problem that this

        12       legislation has failed to address.

        13                  SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Would the

        14       Senator continue to yield?

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        16       Senator Nozzolio, do you continue to yield?

        17                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Be happy to

        18       yield to the Senator.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        20       Senator yields.

        21                  SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Senator, I

        22       understand the point that the program is going

        23       to change slightly.  But the proposal as it

        24       stood in the budget was for a 20-to-1 lookback



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         1       by the Governor's new proposal, which all of

         2       us in this room know was not going to work.

         3       That all the biotechs that were in Empire

         4       Zones were going to be put out, that all the

         5       manufacturing, just about, in the zones would

         6       be put out, that a lot of the significant

         7       projects or projects of significance, as they

         8       refer to them, may very well have been put

         9       out, because the proposal as done by the

        10       administration was a 20-to-1 lookback, based

        11       on the new numbers to qualify for Empire

        12       Zones.

        13                  Now, granted, some people that are

        14       almost finished came in with no lookback, no

        15       need to create jobs, just bring jobs.  But the

        16       reality is to make this continue and to make

        17       this successful, and in dealing with all the

        18       businesspeople, from the Business Council to

        19       all the locals, the recognition was that the

        20       program is going to expire anyways, we should

        21       be putting together a new program -- quite

        22       well, one might be just for distressed areas,

        23       which this was originally supposed to be.  And

        24       then expanded to other areas, and then added



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         1       projects of significance, where you could take

         2       the benefits from one area and move them to

         3       another area that had no Empire Zone or any

         4       depressed areas in it.

         5                  But the reality is that this

         6       proposal is livable.  The shirt-changer part

         7       even has a due process part in it where they

         8       can show that they really aren't a

         9       shirt-changer, they really have a development

        10       of jobs and they earned their benefits.  And

        11       actually, every company has in the Empire Zone

        12       has to go to Taxation every year with their

        13       papers in order to get their benefits renewed

        14       year to year.

        15                  So the reality, at least from where

        16       I'm standing, is that on a temporary basis

        17       this is a much-improved situation than what

        18       the Governor proposed.

        19                  Secondly, it's not much different

        20       from what currently exists.  The reason for

        21       the move-up in the date is to get the better

        22       programs in place sooner than to just have

        23       this drag out and the possibility that next

        24       year we'll be here trying to solve the same



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         1       situation if the administration decides they

         2       want a 20-to-1 clawback.

         3                  We would have preferred to have no

         4       lookback at all, but in the negotiation we

         5       agreed that this was the best situation for

         6       the companies involved, considering that we

         7       know that everybody who was watching from the

         8       day the Governor put his budget out.

         9       Everybody from outside the state was getting

        10       ready to send all our businesses that are in

        11       those areas literature on why shouldn't they

        12       move to another state.

        13                  So with all that in mind, and

        14       knowing that your manufacturing companies are

        15       doing well and they're hopefully going to

        16       expand, as you pointed out in your speeches,

        17       wouldn't you think that this is a better idea

        18       than just leave the Governor's plan stand?

        19                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Mr. President,

        20       a lengthy question.

        21                  But let me share, in responding to

        22       Senator Stachowski, that no, I don't believe a

        23       company that has benefits taken away, has a

        24       program that may be terminated in a very short



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         1       period of time, that in this economy, as that

         2       company and the companies I mentioned and

         3       thousands of other companies across this state

         4       have to make investment decisions today to

         5       affect their operations three to five years

         6       out, the sign is clear in New York State:

         7       Don't do business here.  We can't give you any

         8       type of certainty.  We can't give you any

         9       regularity.

        10                  So what if you'd like to invest 10,

        11       20, 30 million dollars into expanding your

        12       plant?  Tell your board of directors that you

        13       may get certified, even if you're in a zone

        14       today, or you may not get certified if you're

        15       in a zone today.  Tell your board of directors

        16       that yes, you may have an Empire Zone program

        17       in 18 months, or then again, you may not have

        18       an Empire Zone program in New York State in

        19       18 months.

        20                  Those board of directors are going

        21       to say to the executive who's bringing this

        22       before them:  In good conscience, we could not

        23       use our investors' money in New York State.

        24       We don't believe that New York State is



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         1       reliable.  We don't believe New York State is

         2       going to live by its commitments from one day

         3       to the next.

         4                  We had before a tremendous upheaval

         5       in discussion on the zone program.  And this

         6       measure may be an improvement, may be a small

         7       improvement on what was discussed earlier.

         8       But the fact remains, Senator Stachowski and

         9       my colleagues, that the uncertainty created by

        10       this Legislature will drive investment to

        11       other states.

        12                  And I believe that's the concern we

        13       have.  That's the concern that Senator Winner

        14       mentioned in his remarks earlier on this

        15       issue.  And it's a concern that is real.  It's

        16       genuine.  Particularly in these challenging

        17       economic times, if there's an unreliable

        18       program in New York State, let's go to the

        19       Keystone Program in Pennsylvania, which is a

        20       much more reliable program.  Or let's go to

        21       Ohio, that has a program that's reliable,

        22       where we can make an investment and understand

        23       that there will be certainty in that

        24       investment.



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         1                  SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Will the

         2       Senator continue to yield?

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         4       Senator Nozzolio, do you continue to yield?

         5                  SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    And this

         6       will be probably the last question from me.

         7                  But I know where you keep going

         8       with this, but my problem is that you keep

         9       saying it's unreliable, but the reality is had

        10       it gone through, the Governor was going to

        11       look back at it 20 to 1.  The last -- I don't

        12       know what year we changed it, but we changed

        13       it back a few years ago to 20 to 1.  I think

        14       it was four years ago that it became 20 to 1.

        15                  It's now codified -- if we do this

        16       bill, it's codified at 1 to 1 till the program

        17       expires or shirt-changers have a problem.

        18                  Other than that, the reality is

        19       that any board that knows all the business

        20       representatives in this state are putting

        21       together a new program recognizing the

        22       limitations involved in being in the

        23       manufacturing business or being in the biotech

        24       business or being in some of the many



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         1       companies that are attractive.

         2                  In my area, there's a printing

         3       company that has grown and is expanding and

         4       it's considering purchasing two more

         5       companies.  They were scared to death about

         6       20 to 1.  They hit 14 to 1, and they're doing

         7       great.  So for them, this is terrific.

         8                  The fear that the program is going

         9       to go out of existence I don't think is real,

        10       because everyone knows that from the

        11       businesspeople, all they have to do is call

        12       the Business Council -- which if they're

        13       businesspeople, they would -- to know that

        14       they're involved in negotiations trying to set

        15       up a program that works much better than this

        16       one and doesn't necessarily have a 20 to 1,

        17       has a recognition of the limitations based on

        18       how their investment has to go, the wages that

        19       their people get, and what the numbers would

        20       fit, overall the whole state, in certain

        21       areas.

        22                  So I don't think they have a worry

        23       about whether there will be a continuation or

        24       not.  And I think it's a real reach to say



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         1       that they'll be panicked there won't be a

         2       program when they know that we have a

         3       commitment to them by just what we're doing to

         4       the Governor's suggestion in this budget,

         5       making sure that those companies that are

         6       doing pretty well, that are hitting 7 to 1,

         7       14 to 1, 16 to 1, won't get clawed back and

         8       thrown out because they're not hitting 20 to 1

         9       when they absolutely had no chance to hit

        10       20 to 1 in the first place but they were in

        11       the program before we went to a 20-to-1 limit

        12       for the companies that are in now.

        13                  So the reality is they're getting a

        14       strong message that we're pro-business.  So

        15       the reality is we're saving a lot of companies

        16       from the Governor's original idea.  And even

        17       the Governor is receptive, and that's why he

        18       has his people negotiating with the various

        19       business representatives on putting together a

        20       new program, because he understands from

        21       hearing from all the companies and being beat

        22       up literally by different businesspeople when

        23       he did all his town meetings, that his 20-to-1

        24       lookback program originally wasn't a good idea



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         1       and that something else has to happen and that

         2       we should be thankful that the businesspeople

         3       are moving forward and trying to negotiate

         4       this for us.

         5                  And we told them, and I'm sure

         6       you'll join along, that we will work with

         7       them.  And Senator Alesi will be invited to --

         8       anytime I'm invited, he'll be invited to come

         9       along and participate in any kind of role that

        10       we'll play in this part of this.

        11                  So my question is don't you agree

        12       that this might be a much better situation and

        13       that questions about the longevity of the

        14       program should be answered just by the fact

        15       that we did recognize the mistake of the

        16       Governor's program, we corrected it to a much

        17       better situation -- maybe not exactly where we

        18       wanted to go, but much better than any

        19       alternative we had -- and that we got the

        20       business community negotiating on moving

        21       forward with even a better program?  So that's

        22       my question, is don't you think they'd see

        23       that as a positive message?

        24                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Senator



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         1       Stachowski, through the chair, in response to

         2       Senator Stachowski's question, let me answer

         3       it with the following.

         4                  The first is whether this program

         5       that is before us today was improved from

         6       Governor Paterson's original proposal is a

         7       question that could be better answered if this

         8       was negotiated before the public and if there

         9       was a transparent discussion of what the pros

        10       and cons were of the various proposals.

        11                  It may be an improvement over

        12       Governor Paterson's original proposal, but

        13       frankly you may have accepted, in your

        14       clandestine, behind-closed-doors, no

        15       transparent negotiations, something that just

        16       isn't appropriate for the long-term economic

        17       vitality of New York State.

        18                  And let me conclude my response to

        19       Senator Stachowski's question by asking

        20       Senator Stachowski this question

        21       parenthetically.  Would Senator Stachowski put

        22       all his money into a bank that may or may not

        23       exist in a year?  Would Senator Stachowski and

        24       members of your conference invest in a company



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         1       that may not exist in 12 months, or could

         2       exist but it may not exist, particularly

         3       because the people who created that company

         4       already had sent signals that they didn't want

         5       the company to exist in its current state in

         6       12 months?

         7                  This metaphor is what we are

         8       confronted with today.  The reality is that

         9       business decisions with investors' monies are

        10       made well in advance, and they're made to be

        11       non-risky decisions.  Business is risky

        12       enough.  These are challenging economic

        13       times --

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        15       Senator Thompson, why do you rise?

        16                  Excuse me, Senator Nozzolio.

        17                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Would the

        18       Senator yield for a couple of quick questions,

        19       please?

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        21       Senator Nozzolio, do you yield to Senator

        22       Thompson?

        23                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Yes, I'd be

        24       happy to yield to Senator Thompson.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         2       Senator yields.

         3                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Has the

         4       upstate population declined over the last

         5       10 years?

         6                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Mr. President,

         7       I'm asked a question about the demographics of

         8       upstate.  How does Senator Thompson define

         9       "upstate"?

        10                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Through you,

        11       Mr. President.  According to my colleagues on

        12       the other side of the aisle, it's anything

        13       outside of the Bronx.

        14                  (Laughter.)

        15                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Will the

        16       Senator yield for another question?

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        18       Senator Nozzolio, do you continue to yield to

        19       Senator Thompson?

        20                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Yes,

        21       Mr. President.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        23       Senator yields.

        24                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Since he



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         1       doesn't know whether or not we lost population

         2       upstate, I have another question for him.  How

         3       many jobs have we lost upstate over the last

         4       10 years?  Do you know that?  Can you answer

         5       that question, please?

         6                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Mr. President,

         7       I know there were promises by many politicians

         8       who were running for statewide office that

         9       there would be tens of thousands of jobs

        10       created in Western New York in particular.  I

        11       can't remember exactly what United States

        12       Senator candidate made that pledge.  Was it

        13       10,000 jobs?  It was 200,000.  I stand

        14       corrected, Mr. President.  It was 200,000 jobs

        15       that were promised upstate New York by a

        16       certain candidate for United States Senate.  I

        17       don't believe those jobs have ever

        18       materialized, at least in the area of Central

        19       and Western New York that I represent.

        20                  But I'm sure that Senator Thompson

        21       has the figure at his immediate disposal and

        22       this question is something that I know he

        23       knows the answer to.

        24                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Will the



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         1       Senator yield for one other question, please?

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         3       Senator Nozzolio, do you continue to yield?

         4                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    I would be

         5       glad to yield to Senator Thompson.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         7       Senator yields.

         8                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    You know, I am

         9       so fascinated that some individuals fail to

        10       recognize that some of us actually live

        11       upstate and we're a little attuned to some of

        12       the concerns that are often spewed out.

        13                  But I wanted to find out if he was

        14       aware of the poverty rates in some of the

        15       upstate cities like Buffalo, Rochester,

        16       Syracuse, Utica, and Albany, and whether or

        17       not he was aware of their poverty rates and

        18       whether or not they're in the single digits or

        19       in the double digits.  If he could kindly

        20       answer that.  Since we're talking about

        21       economic development, if he would be kind

        22       enough to answer those questions for me.

        23                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    I'll be glad

        24       to answer Senator Thompson's question.  I



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         1       guess it would be appropriate for Senator

         2       Thompson to know that the City of Geneva is

         3       one of the most impoverished cities in upstate

         4       New York.  And that the zone program, because

         5       of the zone program, we were able to recruit

         6       Guardian Glass to Geneva to help begin a

         7       renaissance in that community that is in

         8       upstate New York, as Senator Thompson well

         9       knows.  It's an area that he has to travel by

        10       each week when he comes to Albany.

        11                  But that Empire Zone program that

        12       is being changed by this legislation may very

        13       well send a signal to the company that began

        14       the renaissance in Geneva that New York is a

        15       state that no longer supports business, that

        16       it's a state that business can no longer rely

        17       on, it's a state that says more jobs will be

        18       lost.  It says that very clearly, whether it's

        19       in Buffalo, Batavia, or the greater Finger

        20       Lakes region that I am honored to represent.

        21                  That the cities of Auburn and

        22       Geneva, the communities in Wayne County, in

        23       Tompkins County and Seneca County that have

        24       zones are now going to be having to explain to



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         1       companies that this program exists up until

         2       the middle of next year, so we would like you

         3       to invest in New York State.

         4                  And the question then becomes --

         5       and maybe I can ask Senator Thompson to yield

         6       to respond to this -- what would Senator

         7       Thompson tell the companies who are making

         8       decisions to invest in Geneva, in Auburn, in

         9       Sennett, whether or not this program will

        10       definitely exist next year when it's set to

        11       expire next year by this legislation?

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        13       Senator Thompson, do you consent to yield to

        14       Senator Nozzolio?

        15                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    I would love

        16       to respond to the Senator's question.

        17                  Number one, I think that's an

        18       excellent question, particularly as someone

        19       who joined my colleague Senator Stachowski in

        20       supporting the opposition to a lookback

        21       provision.  You may not be aware of it, but I

        22       actually served on the City of Buffalo's

        23       Empire Zone board for three years.

        24                  And I would say to that company



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         1       we're going to fight to make sure that you get

         2       all the tax incentives that you need.  But the

         3       key critical question is whether or not you

         4       will do things differently than has been done

         5       in the past.

         6                  And so why I asked you the question

         7       about the loss of jobs -- yes, we've lost jobs

         8       upstate, particularly in the cities.  Yes, the

         9       poverty rate in most of the upstate cities is

        10       double digit.  But the critical thing that you

        11       must understand, the critical thing that you

        12       must understand is since the creation of the

        13       zones, that most of our upstate cities, like

        14       Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, they have all --

        15       most of these cities have seen the job loss

        16       continue to increase and the poverty rates

        17       continue to increase.

        18                  So I support the zone.  I have a

        19       bill that I put in when I first got in here to

        20       talk about increasing the wage tax credit,

        21       something that I submitted that hopefully,

        22       when they reform this program over the next

        23       year and a half, that we can improve the wage

        24       tax credit so that more people from Buffalo,



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         1       Rochester, Syracuse, Utica and Albany can

         2       actually -- the people that live next door to

         3       these facilities that don't get those jobs

         4       because the tax incentives are more lucrative

         5       for property taxes and for sales taxes but not

         6       the $1500 for a wage tax credit.

         7                  So yes, some of us are passionate

         8       about those upstate issues as well.  And so

         9       when you spew that -- what sometimes may come

        10       across as venom but really is passion, I want

        11       you to understand that some of us actually do

        12       live upstate as well.

        13                  Thank you.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank

        15       you, Senator Thompson.

        16                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Mr. President,

        17       to conclude.

        18                  That I believe the burden of proof

        19       in whether the zone program is going to be

        20       benefited by this legislation and that, more

        21       importantly, will jobs grow as a result of

        22       this legislation, will the priorities of this

        23       house support the number-one industry to the

        24       degree that under these challenging economic



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         1       times, agriculture, which is the number-one

         2       job-producing industry in this state, needs

         3       support?  And it's a question of priority.

         4                  Thank you, Mr. President, for the

         5       opportunity to speak on this legislation.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank

         7       you, Senator Nozzolio.

         8                  Senator Flanagan.

         9                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Thank you,

        10       Mr. President.  Tough act to follow.

        11                  Just one thing, very quickly.  This

        12       book has been placed on everybody's desks, and

        13       I think it was referenced earlier.  And it is

        14       the, quote, unquote, financial plan or

        15       otherwise referenced as the budget fact

        16       sheets.  And I do have some questions relative

        17       to this book.

        18                  But following up on some of the

        19       comments from my colleagues, the Empire Zones

        20       issue is obviously a statewide issue.  But

        21       frankly, for the communities I represent, it's

        22       not as prevalent as it is in many other areas.

        23       But from a simplistic standpoint, people will

        24       actually ultimately read some of these



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         1       documents, and I think this speaks volumes

         2       about what we're trying to do and where we're

         3       trying to go.

         4                  And I will just reference, again,

         5       these are words that were put out by the

         6       Senate Finance Committee under Senator

         7       Kruger's leadership.  It talks about the

         8       concepts used to reform the program.  And two

         9       of them say -- the second is to reduce some of

        10       the benefits prospectively, and the third is

        11       to make entry into the program more difficult.

        12                  I don't know, if you're trying to

        13       entice business into the State of New York and

        14       you're telling people you're going to get rid

        15       of benefits and you're going to make getting

        16       in the program more difficult and this is the

        17       preamble of what we're going to do, it seems

        18       to me that we're sending a mixed message at

        19       best.

        20                  But on that point, would Senator

        21       Kruger yield to some questions, please.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        23       Senator Kruger, do you yield?

        24                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,



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         1       Mr. President.  But if I can indulge Senator

         2       Flanagan for one moment, please.

         3                  Just to clarify the record, because

         4       there was questions made before.  The same way

         5       as, you know, I think we should all resent the

         6       characterization of this chamber being a

         7       gulag, I also don't like the word "slush

         8       funds."

         9                  So let's just set the record

        10       straight in terms of Senator Young made some

        11       representation concerning a so-called slush

        12       fund.  Research will show that that is what we

        13       call a dry appropriation, which means that we

        14       create a budget line.  And that budget line is

        15       to be used for stimulus funds that are

        16       competitive and that we have to apply for.

        17                  And unlike other states, where many

        18       have their fiscal years in July, because ours

        19       starts so early in the process, we need that

        20       line to be able to hopefully apply for

        21       additional funds and use those funds and

        22       support that line in the budget.

        23                  So consequently -- through you,

        24       Mr. President -- this is not a slush fund,



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         1       it's rather an unappropriated line to be used

         2       for future stimulus dollars.  Thank you.

         3                  Senator Flanagan.

         4                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Well, Senator

         5       Kruger, inasmuch as you digressed, I will

         6       digress as well.

         7                  I appreciate the characterizations,

         8       while I may not agree with them.  And I'll

         9       just say that I don't like the fact that

        10       someone refers to any comments as spewing,

        11       coming from either side of the aisle.  So

        12       since you made some other references, I'll

        13       just raise that and hope to engage in a

        14       cordial colloquy with you on some of the

        15       components of this bill.

        16                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Great.

        17                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    I want to go

        18       back to some of the things that you said

        19       originally.  And I know it seems time has

        20       passed, so just refreshing your recollection

        21       and inquiring at the same time, when you were

        22       discussing this legislation with Senator

        23       Saland, there was a discussion about some of

        24       the things that you said.



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         1                  And I want to focus on what you

         2       referenced as cuts in the General Fund.  I

         3       wrote down some notes that you said there was

         4       $6 billion in cuts and that they came from the

         5       General Fund.  And then later you said that

         6       the General Fund spending was flat.

         7                  So which one is it?  Is there

         8       $6 billion in cuts, or is it the General Fund

         9       spending is flat?

        10                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        11       you, Mr. President.  Are we talking about

        12       Empire Zones, or are we talking about the

        13       budget lines?

        14                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    I'm not

        15       talking about Empire Zones at all.

        16                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Okay, so

        17       we're finished with Empire Zones.

        18                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    I didn't say

        19       that.  I just said I'm not talking about

        20       Empire Zones.

        21                  I'm talking about references that

        22       you made before to General Fund expenditures.

        23       I believe that you said that we had cut

        24       $6 billion in funds, and then at another point



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         1       in your conversation you said General Fund

         2       spending was flat.  I'm trying to ascertain

         3       which one was it or which one is it:

         4       $6 billion in cuts, or is it flat?

         5                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

         6       you, Mr. President.  Once again, we've made

         7       $6 billion in cuts and we've made $6 billion

         8       in restorations.  So in principle -- and

         9       obviously, there may be some dollars that

        10       differentiate -- we're flat.

        11                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Mr. President,

        12       would Senator Kruger continue to yield?

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        14       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

        15                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,

        16       Mr. President.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        18       Senator yields.

        19                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Okay.  So at

        20       one point, Senator Kruger, we actually did

        21       make $6 billion in cuts to the General Fund?

        22                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes.

        23                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    And that

        24       before this product came out, we made roughly



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         1       another $6 billion in restorations, so our

         2       General Fund spending is flat.

         3                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

         4       you, Mr. President, in principle.

         5                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Okay.  So when

         6       you reference $6 billion in cutting and the

         7       public is trying to figure out exactly what we

         8       mean, based on what you're telling me now, I

         9       would be fair to go out and say to folks in

        10       terms of General Fund spending, we didn't make

        11       any cuts, because overall spending in that

        12       category of our state budget remains flat?

        13                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        14       you, Mr. President.  Senator Flanagan, it's

        15       $6 billion worth of cuts in services, current

        16       services, in the budget.  While the Executive

        17       had --

        18                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Is that in the

        19       General Fund?

        20                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    While the

        21       Executive had $9 billion -- yes, in the

        22       General Fund.  And we accepted roughly

        23       $6 billion.

        24                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Okay, so --



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         2       Senator Flanagan, could you continue to

         3       address --

         4                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Mr. President,

         5       through you, would Senator Kruger continue to

         6       yield?

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         8       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield to

         9       yield?

        10                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes.

        11                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Because part

        12       of what we're going to get into here and as we

        13       move along in the budget is a discussion about

        14       where is state spending going, how did it

        15       start and where are we going to finish.

        16                  So when we differentiate between

        17       state spending and federal spending, I think

        18       it's fair to get down for the record, when we

        19       leave here and go back to our districts, I

        20       want to know what the representation is going

        21       to be.  Is it going to be that there was

        22       $6 billion in cuts, or is it going to be that

        23       we are spending the same amount that we did

        24       last year?



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         1                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

         2       you, Mr. President.  I think we're becoming

         3       exasperated saying the same thing over and

         4       over again.  Spending is virtually flat from

         5       the General Fund.

         6                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Okay.  Senator

         7       Kruger, then on that point, if you would

         8       continue to yield.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Do you

        10       continue to yield?

        11                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

        12                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    How much is

        13       the General Fund spending?

        14                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    About

        15       $55 billion, approximately.

        16                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    And what was

        17       it last year?

        18                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:

        19       Approximately 54.7.

        20                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Okay.

        21       Relative to the financial plan, if Senator

        22       Kruger would continue to yield.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        24       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?



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         1                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         3       Senator yields.

         4                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    We have a good

         5       set of numbers here on All Fund spending.  Is

         6       there any particular reason why we don't have

         7       General Fund spending year to year and why we

         8       don't have State Fund spending as well?

         9                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        10       you, Mr. President, we do not have exact

        11       numbers at this point.

        12                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Well, Senator

        13       Kruger, I -- this is -- it's exasperating on

        14       my end as well.  And baffling, to quote my

        15       colleague Senator Saland.

        16                  If you don't have specific numbers,

        17       then how can you stand here before me and

        18       represent that it was $55 billion in General

        19       Fund this year and $54.7 last year?  Either

        20       you have the numbers or you don't.

        21                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        22       you, Mr. President.  Senator Flanagan, the

        23       numbers are rounded.  And the projection as

        24       well as the representation is not much



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         1       different this year than the representations

         2       that were made last year.  They're rounded

         3       numbers.

         4                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Okay.  If

         5       Senator Kruger would yield.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         7       Senator, do you yield?

         8                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        10       Senator yields.

        11                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Senator

        12       Fuschillo had inquired about whether or not

        13       there's any MTA funding in this legislation.

        14                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, he

        15       can.

        16                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    And I believe

        17       your answer was no.

        18                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    The

        19       question was was there any new MTA funding.

        20                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Okay.  Is

        21       there any MTA funding in this plan?

        22                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, there

        23       is.  Of course.

        24                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    And how much



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         1       is that?

         2                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

         3       you, Mr. President, approximately $2.5 billion

         4       in transit aid that comes through DOT, and

         5       approximately $82 million in actual capital.

         6       And just to further clarify, that's part of

         7       the 2005 Bond Act, that that was the

         8       agreement.

         9                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Okay.

        10       Following up as well on something that Senator

        11       Fuschillo had asked you, if Senator Kruger

        12       would continue to yield.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Do you

        14       continue to yield, Senator Kruger?

        15                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        17       Senator yields.

        18                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    We have a

        19       grave concern -- I think everybody does,

        20       obviously, all across the state.  But on Long

        21       Island we are already hamstrung by actions

        22       taken by the DOT and by Governor Paterson.

        23       And I want to specifically reference an

        24       executive order that he issued last November



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         1       which included a provision that said basically

         2       if your projects are not at least 75 percent

         3       federally funded, you're on hold.

         4       Essentially, you're dead in the water.  So

         5       that blew out the construction season on Long

         6       Island.

         7                  As part of your negotiations on

         8       transportation, have you resolved that issue

         9       and has that executive order been rescinded as

        10       a part of this budget?

        11                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        12       you, Mr. President.  Again, we're not

        13       responsible for executive orders instituted by

        14       the Governor.  However, to the best of my

        15       knowledge, that order still is in effect.

        16                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Okay.  And

        17       then, more specifically, one of the huge

        18       projects on Long Island happens to pass quite

        19       a distance through my district, and it's

        20       generally referred to as Route 347.  Which is

        21       going to be easily a $200 million project, and

        22       has been put off and delayed.

        23                  Can you tell me with any certainty

        24       in this budget will I know or will our



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         1       contractors know or will the residents on Long

         2       Island know with specificity if any project is

         3       fully funded?

         4                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Again

         5       through you, Mr. President.  Senator Flanagan,

         6       specific projects would be negotiated between

         7       State DOT and the locality.  It's not within

         8       the scope of this budget.

         9                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    So you have no

        10       idea or no understanding of what those

        11       projects may be, not only on Long Island but

        12       in any of our communities throughout the rest

        13       of the State of New York?

        14                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        15       you, Mr. President.  The actual individual

        16       projects and the oversight of those projects

        17       is State DOT.  We fund the projects.  We fund

        18       the agency.  We authorize the agency, rather.

        19                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    If Senator

        20       Kruger would continue to yield, Mr. President,

        21       through you.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        23       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

        24                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes,



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         1       Mr. President.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         3       Senator yields.

         4                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    I'll just

         5       quickly reference this project that I spoke

         6       of.  You said this is between DOT and

         7       localities.  Are you suggesting that DOT is

         8       negotiating with various towns or the county?

         9       Because, frankly, it's state money, and we are

        10       the ones that have original and ultimate

        11       jurisdiction over this and many other

        12       projects.

        13                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        14       you, Mr. President.  The memorandum of

        15       understanding in the capital plan, 2005

        16       capital plan, would have spelled out the

        17       individual projects.  And it's administered by

        18       State DOT.

        19                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Mr. President,

        20       would Senator Kruger continue to yield?

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        22       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

        23                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes,

        24       Mr. President.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         2       Senator yields.

         3                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Thank you,

         4       Senator Kruger.  I appreciate the courtesy.

         5                  I want to shift gears, if I could,

         6       but I want to be very careful about being

         7       germane.  And one of the broad concepts that

         8       we're going to have to grapple with here and

         9       in other pieces of legislation, and you

        10       referenced it in something that Senator Young

        11       had raised, is federal stimulus money.  And

        12       I'm going to give you an example of why I as

        13       one legislator find myself confused, and maybe

        14       you can help clarify some of this for frankly

        15       all of us.

        16                  Several weeks ago the Governor,

        17       Malcolm Smith, Shelly Silver, you, Assemblyman

        18       Farrell all stood at a public press conference

        19       and said that there was $1.6 billion in,

        20       quote, unquote, nuisance taxes that were being

        21       taken out of the budget.

        22                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes.

        23                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    How was that

        24       paid for?  Was that through federal stimulus



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         1       funds?

         2                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

         3       you, Mr. President.

         4                  Firstly, there is no such thing as

         5       nuisance taxes, but that's beside the point.

         6                  The 1.2 that was used to alleviate

         7       those taxes was a combination of funds, some

         8       stimulus, some General Funds.  Not one

         9       specific pot of money was used.  And nothing

        10       was tied to.

        11                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Okay.  Senator

        12       Kruger, if you would continue to yield.

        13                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

        14                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    In your

        15       opinion, how much federal stimulus money are

        16       we going to be getting for this fiscal year?

        17       And in fairness, I would go back to the latter

        18       part of the last fiscal year and include that

        19       as well.

        20                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    I'm told

        21       about $5.5 billion.

        22                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    And what is

        23       your understanding of how much of that is

        24       restricted or unrestricted?  Mr. President,



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         1       through you.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         3       Senator, do you yield?

         4                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,

         5       Mr. President.

         6                  Through you, Mr. President, as we

         7       all know, Washington, sending down the money,

         8       tied it to virtually education and healthcare.

         9                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Okay.  Since

        10       you reference roughly $5.5 billion, can you

        11       differentiate for me and for everyone else how

        12       much for education and how much for

        13       healthcare?

        14                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    About

        15       1.2 billion for education and about

        16       275 million that would be flexible money.  And

        17       the rest healthcare.

        18                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Okay.  And the

        19       healthcare money is unrestricted?

        20                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    It's

        21       reimbursement money.

        22                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Okay.  Let me

        23       focus on the education piece, if I could.

        24       Mr. President, through you.



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         1                  In looking at the federal stimulus

         2       money as it relates to education, there were

         3       two pots.  The general-purpose money, are you

         4       representing that all that money, that

         5       275 million, roughly, is all being used for

         6       education?

         7                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

         8       you, Mr. President, would Senator Flanagan

         9       define how his questions are germane to the

        10       TEDE bill?

        11                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Mr. President,

        12       if Senator Kruger is asking me to yield, I'd

        13       be happy to do that.

        14                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    I am.

        15                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    I started off

        16       this portion of my questions being very clear

        17       I want to be germane.  You can have this

        18       conversation with me, you can have it with any

        19       one of my colleagues, and we can have it now

        20       or we can have it on every single bill.  I

        21       believe it is germane because you actually

        22       talked about a $1 billion appropriation that's

        23       not in this bill and spoke about it at length.

        24                  So I think I'm on fair ground to be



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         1       bringing up the use of federal stimulus money,

         2       because it is germane to everything we're

         3       discussing.

         4                  And specifically as to your point,

         5       Senator Kruger, you referenced Medicaid money

         6       or healthcare money that became available that

         7       was unrestricted.  So it is legitimate for me

         8       or for anyone else to be asking whether or not

         9       some of that money was used to fund the

        10       elements of what is commonly referred to as

        11       the TEDE bill.

        12                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        13       you, Mr. President.  Education and healthcare

        14       is not in this bill.  Any questions raised

        15       about education and healthcare and the use of

        16       stimulus money should be directed when we get

        17       to those appropriate bills.

        18                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Well,

        19       Mr. President, if Senator Kruger would yield.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        21       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

        22                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        24       Senator yields.



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         1                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Senator

         2       Kruger, I'm going to go back to what you said

         3       before about the $1 billion fund whose

         4       characterization you didn't like, the

         5       $1 billion.

         6                  It is somehow apparent or it's fair

         7       for you to get up and discuss that, which is

         8       in a completely separate bill, not in the bill

         9       before us.  But when I'm raising issues about

        10       federal stimulus money, somehow it becomes not

        11       germane.

        12                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        13       you, Mr. President, in response to Senator

        14       Flanagan.  The issue of the so-called slush

        15       fund that was raised by the Senator was part

        16       of the question on this bill.  It had nothing

        17       to do about education or with health.  It was

        18       part of the agriculture amendment.  And that's

        19       why I raised the issue.

        20                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Mr. President,

        21       if Senator Kruger would continue to yield.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        23       Senator Kruger, do you yield?

        24                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes,



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         1       Mr. President.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         3       Senator yields.

         4                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Senator

         5       Kruger, at what point and frankly on what

         6       legislation do you believe it would be germane

         7       to be discussing the federal stimulus money

         8       and its distribution?

         9                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Well,

        10       through you, Mr. President, depending upon

        11       what programs that funding would be used for

        12       would be the time that it would be germane.

        13                  If we're talking about education

        14       and health, it has nothing to do with the TEDE

        15       bill.

        16                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Okay.  Will

        17       Senator Kruger continue to yield?

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        19       Senator, do you yield?

        20                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,

        21       Mr. President.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        23       Senator yields.

        24                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Senator



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         1       Kruger, is there any federal stimulus money

         2       that's been used to pay for the components of

         3       this legislation before us?

         4                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, there

         5       is.

         6                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Mr. President,

         7       if Senator Kruger would continue to yield.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         9       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

        10                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

        11                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Forgive me,

        12       but you're telling me not to speak about

        13       something that is so unbelievably germane to

        14       this bill because you just represented to me

        15       and my colleagues that you're paying for it

        16       with federal stimulus money.  How much more

        17       germane do you have to get?

        18                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        19       you, Mr. President.  Senator Flanagan, I don't

        20       understand your question.

        21                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    My question is

        22       this.  How much, specifically, how much

        23       federal stimulus money is being used to fund

        24       the components of the bill before us?  You



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         1       just said there was money.  I would like to

         2       know how much.

         3                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

         4       you, Mr. President.  I will get back that

         5       answer to you, Senator Flanagan.

         6                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    But there is

         7       money being used from the federal stimulus.

         8                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

         9       you, Mr. President, I believe so.

        10                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Mr. President,

        11       on the bill.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        13       Senator Flanagan, on the bill.

        14                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    When Senator

        15       Kruger originally got up, he was talking about

        16       the process that we're engaging in and he

        17       referenced bipartisanship, and he talked about

        18       the outreach that came from the Majority to

        19       the Minority.

        20                  And I made these similar comments

        21       when we talked about the deficit reduction

        22       plan.  I can guarantee you, when I go home and

        23       I talk to the people that I represent, I will

        24       be very clear.  There was at best a hint and a



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         1       scintilla, no more, in terms of

         2       bipartisanship.

         3                  Because I know what people are

         4       going to say.  I'm the ranking Republican on

         5       the Education Committee, I got a letter from

         6       Senator Oppenheimer in the latter part of

         7       March, just like Senator DeFrancisco did from

         8       you -- as did all the other chairs to their

         9       respective rankers -- and we were asked for

        10       our input and our ideas on the budget.  And

        11       frankly, I was offended.  I don't work for

        12       Senator Oppenheimer.  My colleagues don't work

        13       for the chairs of their respective committees.

        14       I work for my constituents and the residents

        15       of the State of New York.

        16                  I wrote back politely and said that

        17       the proper discourse and the proper venue for

        18       that is public dialogue and transparency and

        19       things that we call the conference committees

        20       that everybody supported unanimously in the

        21       Budget Reform Act of 2007.

        22                  So you can dance around it a

        23       hundred different ways, but the bottom line is

        24       this was the most secretive process certainly



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         1       in the 23 years I've been in Albany.  And you

         2       know what?  You're in charge.  If that's how

         3       you decide to do it, I don't have to agree

         4       with it, but that's the reality.

         5                  So I don't think anyone should walk

         6       out of here making any assumptions about

         7       whether this was a bipartisan process and

         8       whether there was any real outreach.  I am

         9       certainly not going to represent that to my

        10       constituents.  And when I am at public forums

        11       with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle

        12       in both houses, I will be absolutely

        13       crystal-clear that there was no bipartisanship

        14       in this budget process.

        15                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank

        17       you, Senator Flanagan.

        18                  Senator Libous.

        19                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you,

        20       Mr. President.  Would Senator Dilan, the

        21       chairman of Transportation, yield for a

        22       question?

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        24       Senator Dilan is not in the chamber at this



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         1       time, Senator Libous.

         2                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Well, then,

         3       Senator Kruger, would you yield for a question

         4       on transportation?

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         6       Senator Kruger, would you yield to Senator

         7       Libous?

         8                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I

         9       will.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        11       Senator yields.

        12                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you,

        13       Senator.

        14                  Senator, for the last several years

        15       you've heard me on this floor talk about the

        16       Dedicated Highway Trust Fund.  Is the fund

        17       being raided again this year, Senator Kruger?

        18       Through you, Mr. President.

        19                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        20       you, Mr. President.  In all due respect, what

        21       does "raided" mean?

        22                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Is that a

        23       question, Mr. President?

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:



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         1       Senator Kruger, are you asking Senator Libous

         2       to yield to you?

         3                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I

         4       guess so.

         5                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    I won't yield

         6       the floor, but I'll answer his question.

         7                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Thank you.

         8                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    "Raided," in my

         9       opinion, and in the opinion of the people that

        10       I represent, and quite frankly the people of

        11       State of New York, is when a Dedicated Highway

        12       Trust Fund was set up -- and I emphasize the

        13       word "trust fund" -- the money that was go

        14       into that fund was to be used for road and

        15       bridge repair.

        16                  For the last several years the

        17       administration has taken money from that fund,

        18       I call it a raid, and used that for other

        19       means.  And I'm curious if the money has been

        20       taken from the fund again.  So I will rephrase

        21       my word "raided" and say that money was taken

        22       from the fund and used for other means.  Has

        23       that happened again this year, Mr. President?

        24                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through



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         1       you, Mr. President.  If I understand the

         2       question correctly, Senator Libous, there is

         3       approximately $220 million that is

         4       redistributed from the dedicated fund to DMV,

         5       which is allowed within the scope of the

         6       federal regulation.  State law, I'm sorry.

         7                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Mr. President,

         8       through you, would Senator Kruger continue to

         9       yield?

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        11       Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

        12                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        14       Senator yields.

        15                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    And, Senator

        16       Kruger, the $200 million, do you know what

        17       that $200 million is used for in DOT?

        18                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        19       you, Mr. President, operations.

        20                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    So,

        21       Mr. President -- and thank you, Senator

        22       Kruger, on that question, that specific

        23       question.  I'm not done, sir.  But --

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:



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         1       Senator Fuschillo, why do you rise?

         2                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    I'm going to

         3       give Senator Kruger a break.  Would Senator

         4       Libous yield for a question?

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         6       Senator Libous, do you yield to Senator

         7       Fuschillo?

         8                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Yeah, I will,

         9       Mr. President.

        10                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    You don't

        11       object, Senator Kruger, do you?

        12                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    No, not in

        13       the least.

        14                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Senator

        15       Libous, you talked about raiding the Dedicated

        16       Highway and Bridge Trust Fund.  I know as the

        17       chair of the Senate Transportation Committee

        18       you had legislation for many years in this

        19       house pending that.  Could you explain --

        20                  SENATOR SALAND:    Excuse me,

        21       Mr. President.  For whatever reason, whether

        22       it's Senator Fuschillo's microphone -- it is

        23       difficult.

        24                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    How about



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         1       now?  Is that better?

         2                  SENATOR SALAND:    Yes.

         3                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Okay, thank

         4       you.

         5                  Could you talk a little bit about

         6       the need for the legislation that you've had

         7       pending here that would prevent the raid and

         8       what was the purpose of your question where

         9       have the funds been going that are supposed to

        10       be dedicated for that specific account?

        11                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Certainly,

        12       Mr. President.  And through you,

        13       Mr. President.  For the last couple of years

        14       the Dedicated Highway Trust Fund, and I

        15       emphasize the word "trust," was set up to

        16       collect fees -- from fuel fees, from motor

        17       vehicle fees -- to go into a fund to pave

        18       roads and bridges in New York State.  A

        19       portion of those dollars have gone to pay for

        20       bonding that has paid for roads and bridges

        21       and certainly to try to take care of the needs

        22       of the highways of New York State.

        23                  In the last couple of years, and I

        24       remember on the floor last year I referenced



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         1       that over $213 million was transferred from

         2       the Dedicated Highway Trust Fund, a fund to

         3       pave roads and take care of the ailing and

         4       failing bridges in this state -- and by the

         5       way, Mr. President, DOT put out a report last

         6       year that talked about the number of bridges

         7       that were in disrepair in our state.  And,

         8       Mr. President, there were hundreds of bridges

         9       throughout the state.  The report is quite a

        10       large report, it's about this thick

        11       (indicating), and it talks about safety to the

        12       citizens of New York State.  And certainly the

        13       money in that Dedicated Highway Trust Fund was

        14       supposed to and is supposed to go to road and

        15       bridge repair.

        16                  But $213 million last year was

        17       transferred to, as Senator Kruger mentioned,

        18       the Department of Motor Vehicles to pay for

        19       the operation of the Department of Motor

        20       Vehicles.  Now, normally that's done out of

        21       the General Fund.  Normally, that's done out

        22       of state operations.  But for whatever reason,

        23       the Dedicated Highway Trust Fund, money used

        24       that's supposed to go to repair roads and



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         1       bridges, goes to that.

         2                  There's also, Mr. President, I

         3       believe about $500 million, maybe now

         4       $600 million that goes to snow and ice

         5       removal, to the Department of Transportation.

         6       That's taken from that dedicated fund, you

         7       know, close to a billion dollars.  It's not

         8       quite a billion dollars, but it may be closer.

         9       And, Mr. President, Senator Kruger, as

        10       chairman of Finance, may have those updated

        11       numbers.  I don't have them available.  But

        12       again, taken away from a Dedicated Highway

        13       Trust Fund that was set up by this body to pay

        14       for road and bridge repair.  Dangerous

        15       bridges, very, very dangerous to our citizens.

        16                  So that money is now transferred

        17       out and goes into the maintenance and

        18       operation of DOT.  Again, in the past, was

        19       paid for out of a General Fund account.

        20                  So, Mr. President, I hope that

        21       answers Senator Fuschillo's question.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        23       Senator Fuschillo.

        24                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Mr.



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         1       President, would the Senator continue to

         2       yield?

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         4       Senator Libous, do you continue to yield?

         5                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Sure.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         7       Senator yields.

         8                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    My

         9       understanding, based on my original questions

        10       to Senator Kruger prior to this discussion,

        11       was that about $2 billion is going into that

        12       fund this year, but a very small percentage is

        13       actually going to be for construction.

        14                  Is the same principle being applied

        15       here, where X amount of dollars will be going

        16       to pay for debt and a very small amount will

        17       be going for actual construction?

        18                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Actually,

        19       Mr. President, through you, I know the

        20       question came up earlier that Senator

        21       Fuschillo talked about the CHIPS money.  And I

        22       believe he offered a question up to Senator

        23       Kruger.

        24                  And, you know, the Governor cut the



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         1       CHIPS money, and certainly it was restored,

         2       and that's a good thing.  But what's

         3       interesting, and it pertains to the fund, is

         4       that about $363 million in CHIPS funding goes

         5       to local governments.  But what's alarming is

         6       that $440 million will go to cover the bonding

         7       of that 363.

         8                  So it's a problem, because more and

         9       more of the Dedicated Highway Fund is going to

        10       bonding and to pay debt rather than actually

        11       going into road and bridge repair.  And as the

        12       fund is continually raided, then more and more

        13       of the fund will go to bonding, because that

        14       500 million that I mentioned, and add

        15       200 million on top of that, that's 700, say

        16       $800 million could have gone to road and

        17       bridge repair.

        18                  Mr. President, could I continue to

        19       ask the chairman of Finance, Senator Kruger, a

        20       couple of questions?

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    You

        22       certainly may.

        23                  Senator Kruger, do you yield to

        24       Senator Libous?



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         1                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         3       Senator yields.

         4                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you,

         5       Mr. President.

         6                  Senator Kruger, would you concur

         7       that also the money is still being taken out

         8       for snow and ice repair, as I mentioned?

         9                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, it is.

        10                  And if I could just comment,

        11       Senator Libous, to expand on your question.

        12                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    I would be happy

        13       to listen.

        14                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    This

        15       program developed in 2005, when Republicans

        16       were in the majority, is faulty.  We know

        17       that.  And interestingly enough, you had press

        18       conferences around this very issue, and we

        19       agree with you.  And we would like very, very

        20       much to offer a bipartisan approach over this

        21       next segment after we finish this budget to

        22       see how we better utilize our shared expertise

        23       in making this program a better one.

        24                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Mr. President,



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         1       could I respond to his comment?

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         3       Senator Libous, yes.

         4                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you.

         5       Mr. President, through you.  Of course,

         6       Senator Kruger, I welcome your offer.

         7                  And, you know, this house did vote

         8       for legislation two years in a row that I put

         9       on the floor when I sat on that side of the

        10       aisle that would stop the raiding of the

        11       Dedicated Highway Fund, and it passed

        12       unanimously.  So I would welcome that.

        13                  And I appreciate you making the

        14       offer, because I think we have to stop raiding

        15       that fund, because the taxpayers believe that

        16       that is a sacred fund that is supposed to go

        17       to road and bridge repair.

        18                  And again, Mr. President, this

        19       year -- and if I could ask Senator Kruger

        20       another question.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        22       Senator Kruger, do you yield?

        23                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The



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         1       Senator yields.

         2                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Will the

         3       increases this year, Senator Kruger, in

         4       vehicle registration fees, will they be going

         5       into this fund, I'm assuming, as they have,

         6       all vehicle registration fees have in the

         7       past?

         8                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

         9       you, Mr. President, yes, they will.

        10                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Mr. President,

        11       if Senator Kruger would still yield.

        12                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do.

        13                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Would those

        14       funds go to highway road and bridge repair, or

        15       will they be swept out to be utilized for

        16       other purposes?

        17                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

        18       you, Mr. President, once again, they're not

        19       segregated, as you're well aware, Senator

        20       Libous.  So the answer is it's a mixed answer

        21       to a mixed bag.

        22                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you,

        23       Mr. President.  Could I speak on the bill?

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:



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         1       Senator Libous, on the bill.

         2                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    I am going to

         3       offer my comments particularly to the

         4       transportation piece of this legislation.  And

         5       I certainly defer to my colleagues who have

         6       spoken on a number of other issues.

         7                  It was talked about earlier today

         8       that there was going to be job generation in

         9       this bill, and what I am concerned about is

        10       this.  That according to what I can find in

        11       the transportation bill, and what I understand

        12       is that there's about $1.6 billion in the

        13       existing letting program, and the letting

        14       program is the number of jobs that DOT puts

        15       out on the street.  Those are when your

        16       contractors call you and say, Hey, where are

        17       the projects, how come they're not moving?

        18       There's $1.6 billion, which is about a

        19       $300 million cut in this program.

        20                  And in 2005, as Senator Kruger

        21       mentioned before, this house voted and agreed

        22       on a highway program at a certain level, it

        23       was a five-year plan.  And it also went to the

        24       taxpayers of this state and asked the



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         1       taxpayers to bond.  And if you recall, we

         2       passed a transportation bond issue.  And we

         3       told the taxpayers at the time that the money

         4       was going to be used for road, bridge, highway

         5       repair and other issues.

         6                  This budget really breaks that

         7       commitment, because there will be $300 million

         8       less in actual letting going out the door this

         9       year.  That's something that concerns me,

        10       especially as we talk about jobs.

        11                  Let me take it a step further.  As

        12       Senator Kruger correctly said earlier, there

        13       is stimulus money that is in this package.

        14       And certainly we all know that there are

        15       strings attached to stimulus money.  I guess,

        16       you know, I asked a question did the stimulus

        17       money for highway funds, you know, make up the

        18       reduction in state spending.  And my answer to

        19       that is going to be no.  And that's really a

        20       short answer.

        21                  But there's about a billion dollars

        22       in highway stimulus funds that go into this

        23       budget.  But what's concerning is that -- and

        24       that's for the next two years.  Okay?  That's



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         1       a billion dollars for the next two years.  So

         2       if you cut it in half, that's what,

         3       500 million one year, 500 million the next.

         4                  But this budget also cuts

         5       600 million in state construction during the

         6       same time.  That's 600 million in state

         7       construction funds at the same time.  So

         8       you're again spending less than what was

         9       proposed in the capital plan that was put

        10       together by this house in 2005.  That's less

        11       spending, that's less construction jobs,

        12       that's less jobs being created than we

        13       actually committed to and passed in this house

        14       in 2005.

        15                  So I'm very concerned that while my

        16       colleagues on the other side of the aisle talk

        17       about all these jobs that are going to be

        18       created, at least from the DOT side -- I can

        19       only speak on DOT.  I don't profess to be an

        20       expert.  I know a little bit about it from

        21       chairing the committee.

        22                  I find transportation to be an

        23       exciting area of the state budget because it

        24       ties to economic development and our future



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         1       growth, whether it be rail or aviation and

         2       again, hopefully someday fixing -- and I take

         3       Senator Kruger's offer up, and we will work

         4       together to fix that Dedicated Highway Fund,

         5       because that's something I wanted to do for

         6       the last several years.

         7                  But to say that at least from the

         8       transportation side of this that additional

         9       jobs are going to be created, I question that.

        10       I only question that because if I look at the

        11       numbers, the numbers are telling me that we're

        12       to be putting less out in this fiscal year

        13       than we've committed in the past.  And if

        14       we're putting less money on the street -- and

        15       I've dealt with the contractors, I've dealt

        16       with many of the people in the industry -- it

        17       means that they're going to hire less people

        18       in the construction season.

        19                  So while I certainly -- I think,

        20       looking at the spending portion of this

        21       budget -- and I do applaud the fact that the

        22       CHIPS money was put back in the budget.  I

        23       know that's something that everybody on the

        24       this side of the aisle worked hard -- Senator



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         1       Fuschillo, as the ranker of the committee.

         2       And I guess if Senator Dilan were here, I'd

         3       even say thank you to him.  So if he's

         4       listening, I say thank you to you too for

         5       doing that, because that's a very important

         6       part of this transportation budget.

         7                  Thank you, Mr. President.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank

         9       you, Senator Libous.

        10                  Senator Thompson.

        11                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    On the bill.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        13       Senator Thompson, on the bill.

        14                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    I won't be

        15       long, because I know we've been on this bill

        16       for a number of hours.

        17                  But first I want to thank you,

        18       Mr. President, for recognizing me.  I want to

        19       also thank Chairman Kruger for his insight

        20       into the budget and his tenacity in moving

        21       through this process.

        22                  Just a couple of things I think are

        23       important to note about the environment.  This

        24       budget will provide $454.5 million in stimulus



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         1       money, $9.45 million for spills management,

         2       $10 million for land and forest grants, and

         3       $435 million for water pollution.

         4                  This budget as well, so many people

         5       raised concerns.  The Governor's initial

         6       proposal really proposed a sweeping change to

         7       the Environmental Protection Fund, and many of

         8       my colleagues on both sides of the aisle

         9       raised a concern regarding using the real

        10       estate transfer tax, removing that as the

        11       primary source of funding from the EPF.  And

        12       so with the help of so many people in this

        13       room and so many advocates, we were able to

        14       reject that proposal by the Governor.

        15                  The other thing I think is

        16       important to note is that there's been a

        17       number of sweeps of the EPF.  This budget

        18       proposed a $45 million sweep.  And with the

        19       help of a number of advocates and groups, we

        20       will not be sweeping the EPF.

        21                  I believe that there's still some

        22       unfinished business to do as relates to the

        23       EPF that we can hopefully submit in a

        24       bipartisan way by the end of session as



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         1       relates to repayment language.  I know that

         2       former chairman of the Senate EnCon Committee,

         3       Senator Marcellino, in addition to Assemblyman

         4       Sweeney in the Assembly, have bills that

         5       they'd like to have negotiated to deal with

         6       the repayment provisions of over $500 million

         7       in sweeps taken place to the EPF.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Excuse

         9       me, Senator Thompson.

        10                  Senator Marcellino, why do you

        11       rise?

        12                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    I would just

        13       like to ask if Senator Thompson would yield

        14       for just one question.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        16       Senator Thompson, do you yield to Senator

        17       Marcellino?

        18                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Yes,

        19       absolutely.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        21       Senator yields.

        22                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Senator

        23       Thompson, you and I have talked about this

        24       before.  You mentioned the legislation that I



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         1       sponsored in this house and that was passed

         2       unanimously by this chamber and the other

         3       house and became law that established the EPF

         4       at $250 million in last year's budget and

         5       raised it to $300 million in this year's

         6       budget.

         7                  The bill that we're talking about

         8       and the bill that will be coming up in

         9       Article 7, is the EPF higher or lower than

        10       $300 million?  Or is it the same as

        11       $300 million, or is it less than $300 million?

        12                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Through you,

        13       Mr. President.  The bill will be less than

        14       $300 million.  But as many of you know, even

        15       with the lower amounts it's been difficult to

        16       get all of those dollars out of the door, and

        17       that's what has led to a lot of the sweeps.

        18                  And so I believe as we come out of

        19       this fiscal climate, this period of economic

        20       recovery, that we all will support, I would

        21       hope, to moving it up to that $300 million

        22       once we get out of this fiscal climate.  As

        23       many people are aware, the Governor's budget

        24       came in, I believe, at $205 million, and today



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         1       we have increased it by more than $17 million,

         2       coming up with different ways.

         3                  And I think the number-one thing

         4       for most of the advocates this year was to,

         5       one, deal with the RETT.  I believe we did

         6       that, to protect the EPF.  And two was the

         7       issue of making sure that we deal with the

         8       Bottle Bill, which I'll talk about after

         9       Senator Marcellino is finished.

        10                  Do you have any other questions?

        11                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Yes.  Just

        12       one more.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        14       Senator Thompson, do you yield?

        15                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Yes,

        16       absolutely.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        18       Senator yields.

        19                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Senator

        20       Thompson, the bill that we're talking about,

        21       that we're going to be talking about, depends

        22       upon, in part, fees that were increased, such

        23       as fees to pesticide applicators, fees to new

        24       wetlands projects, and so forth.



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         1                  There's no guarantee -- there's

         2       supposed to be an additional $5 million.  At

         3       least the first $5 million was supposed to go

         4       into the Environmental Protection Fund to

         5       bring it up to the number you're talking

         6       about, amongst other fees.  There's no

         7       guarantees that any of these fees will achieve

         8       the level that is anticipated.  Is that not

         9       so?

        10                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    I would

        11       respectfully disagree.  I mean, I think

        12       anytime we put budgets together, we put in

        13       projections.  And I think whether it's the

        14       RETT or whether it's any other number that's

        15       assigned to any budget, it's based on

        16       projected revenue.

        17                  And I believe that not only will we

        18       reach that projection, that we're going to

        19       work collectively with the various respective

        20       agencies and the advocates to not only get the

        21       money out the door but to improve the process

        22       and make sure that we not only get the revenue

        23       in but also spend the money a lot faster and a

        24       lot better as well.



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         1                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    I just

         2       wanted to make the point that the EPF was

         3       supposed to be $300 million and is

         4       significantly less now.  This budget does

         5       swipe money out of the EPF into other areas.

         6       There is no language here that guarantees

         7       repayment.  There has never been any repayment

         8       of EPF funds.  There's almost a half a billion

         9       dollars in EPF money that has been swept by

        10       prior administrations, right up to and

        11       including this one, that has not been paid

        12       back.  And there doesn't seem to be a plan to

        13       have it paid back.

        14                  I think that has to be addressed,

        15       and we will address it in the next bill with

        16       an amendment.

        17                  Thank you, Senator Thompson.

        18                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    On the bill,

        19       just a couple of quick things.

        20                  First, this bill does not have a

        21       cash sweep.  The $45 million I believe in cash

        22       sweep has been rejected.  We've always done

        23       some bonding.  This bill will do about

        24       $95 million in bonding for various capital



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         1       projects, many that will be performed and

         2       conducted, as always, in many Senate districts

         3       across the state.

         4                  I think the other point that's

         5       important to note about this bill is that we

         6       did conduct a number of hearings on the Bottle

         7       Bill.  And the hearings I thought were very

         8       inclusive.  We did not have hearings where all

         9       the people who were for it spoke first and all

        10       the people who were against it spoke last.

        11                  I think for the people -- in fact,

        12       in the hearing that was held in Albany, I want

        13       to thank my colleagues from both sides of the

        14       aisle that came out and actually gave some

        15       very good input and testimony from not only

        16       the members but also from people on both sides

        17       of the issue.

        18                  The Bottle Bill has been something

        19       that many folks have been supportive of

        20       throughout the years.  It has over a

        21       75 percent approval rating in public opinion

        22       polls.  This bill I believe is a compromise.

        23       It's a compromise bill.  As an advocate,

        24       someone who is passionate about this issue, I



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         1       would like to have seen it bigger.  I would

         2       have loved to see it bigger.  But some people

         3       said let's try to work on a compromise

         4       proposal.

         5                  So this compromise only goes to

         6       bottled water.  It's not your ice teas, your

         7       sports drinks, your fruit juices.  It takes

         8       out of our landfills, out of our farms more

         9       than 1.5 billion containers that are purchased

        10       and consumed in the State of New York each and

        11       every year.  So it's a compromise proposal.

        12                  It's not as ambitious and robust as

        13       many of us who have been supporters of the

        14       Bigger Better Bottle Bill would have liked.

        15       But it's a compromise.  We listened to some of

        16       the concerns of the supermarkets.  They were

        17       concerned about overredemption.

        18                  In fact, there's some members on

        19       the other side of the aisle and this side of

        20       the aisle that were concerned about the fact

        21       that the big box retailers, traditionally your

        22       Wal-Marts, your Sam's Clubs, your Targets, do

        23       not really at this present do a fair job of

        24       enforcing the Bottle Bill.



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         1                  So this bill will seek to address

         2       and rectify some of those problems.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         4       Senator Marcellino, why do you rise?

         5                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Would the

         6       Senator yield.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

         8       Senator Thompson, do you yield?

         9                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Yes, sir,

        10       absolutely.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        12       Senator yields.

        13                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    You

        14       mentioned the Bottle Bill.  I was going to

        15       save this for another time, but why not.

        16                  How much revenue is anticipated to

        17       come from the proposed new Bottle Bill?

        18                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    According to

        19       our numbers, it will be a minimum of 115 will

        20       go to the state.

        21                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    How much do

        22       you -- I'm sorry.  Through you, Mr. Chairman.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Do you

        24       continue to yield, Senator?



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         1                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Yes.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         3       Senator yields.

         4                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    How much do

         5       you expect to get this year, in this fiscal

         6       year?

         7                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    This fiscal

         8       year I believe is budgeted for $115 million.

         9       In fact, the Container Recycling Institute

        10       believes that it will be higher than that, but

        11       we took the conservative estimate.

        12                  In addition to that, we also --

        13       they believe it's going to be 218.  We

        14       budgeted 215.  And out of that, whatever is

        15       left, if there's more money left, 20 percent

        16       of that will go to the industry.

        17                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Mr.

        18       President, if the Senator could continue to

        19       yield.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        21       Senator Thompson, do you continue to yield?

        22                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Yes,

        23       absolutely.

        24                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Senator



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         1       Thompson, how do you propose to deal with the

         2       issue of a single label for New York State

         3       relative to bottled water?

         4                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Yes, the UPC

         5       code?

         6                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Yeah.

         7                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    The UPC code I

         8       believe will be addressed during the

         9       regulatory process.

        10                  That is an issue, as I explained to

        11       some of our colleagues, that you have some

        12       supermarkets right now that would prefer to

        13       have a universal UPC code, and some

        14       distributors or manufacturers would like to

        15       have a universal one, and then you have some

        16       on the other side that would like to have a

        17       state-specific.  Because as you are aware,

        18       there are certain supermarkets that have what

        19       we call a private label.  Meaning Hannaford

        20       Foods may do their own bottled water.  And

        21       they may not only operate in New York State.

        22                  So there's not a uniform opinion

        23       right now on whether you should have a

        24       universal UPC or state code.  And I think this



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         1       is something that all of us who have been

         2       really involved with this would like to allow

         3       the right to work out through the regulatory

         4       process.

         5                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Well, I

         6       understand what you're saying, and I concur

         7       that there is going to be a problem.  And if

         8       one talks to the industry, as I have --

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        10       Senator Marcellino, are you asking Senator

        11       Thompson to continue to yield?

        12                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    I will in a

        13       second.

        14                  As I have spoken to the industry,

        15       they tell me that there is no way that that

        16       process can be accomplished within six months

        17       to a year.  So Senator Thompson, if he would

        18       continue to yield --

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        20       Senator, do you continue to yield?

        21                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Yes,

        22       absolutely.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        24       Senator yields.



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         1                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    If you can't

         2       resolve this problem within the next six

         3       months to a year, assuming the industry --

         4       they ought to know -- assuming the industry is

         5       correct, if you can't resolve this problem in

         6       six months to a year, how do you accomplish

         7       the effect of getting any money?  Because

         8       you're not going to have a code and you're not

         9       going to be able to redeem the bottles.

        10                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Through you,

        11       Madam Chairwoman.  First let me say that --

        12                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Is it

        13       something we said?

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        15       Look what you did, you changed everything.

        16                  (Laughter.)

        17                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Through you,

        18       Madam Chairwoman, the issue at hand is not

        19       that complicated.  Number one, I think we need

        20       to recognize that we are not the only state in

        21       the union that deals with bottled water.

        22                  Number two, Connecticut, as you are

        23       aware, last month just passed a bottle bill

        24       for bottled water, and they gave them a pretty



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         1       short time frame.  And some will be a little

         2       late, but most, I am told, will be on time.

         3                  The other issue is in terms of the

         4       companies, we're always going to -- I am told

         5       that the state, as always, will do its best to

         6       work with these companies.  Many of the bigger

         7       companies said that they are prepared to

         8       address this issue.  And some of the smaller

         9       breweries and things of that nature I believe

        10       will be assisted through the regulatory

        11       process.  And there is also some transition

        12       money that may be available as well.

        13                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    If the

        14       Senator will continue to yield, Madam

        15       President.

        16                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Yes,

        17       absolutely.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        19       Senator Thompson continues to yield.

        20                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Senator

        21       Thompson, I hear what you're saying.  But the

        22       fact is many of these companies are saying

        23       that it cannot be done, that it cannot be met.

        24       And what the state is likely to do is have no



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         1       product on the shelf at a given period of

         2       time.  Connecticut hasn't collected a dime

         3       yet -- or a nickel, if you will, from their

         4       law because they haven't got any labels.

         5                  You've got a brewery in your

         6       section of the state that is cancelling

         7       projects or a proposed project to expand and

         8       is talking about possibly even closing down as

         9       a result of this particular law, with the loss

        10       of several jobs in that region, which is

        11       something we don't want.

        12                  We're hearing that -- many of the

        13       grocery stores are telling us that it's going

        14       to cost jobs because they aren't going to be

        15       able to make back -- this 20 percent is not

        16       going to cover their cost of doing business.

        17       The bottlers are not going to be able to cover

        18       their costs.  Some of them are just not going

        19       to be there.  Some of the smaller operators

        20       are not going to be there.

        21                  There's an Anheuser-Busch brewery

        22       that is in I believe Senator Aubertine's

        23       district that is likewise saying they're going

        24       to close down too, and they're cancelling a



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         1       project for expansion.

         2                  Senator, I go back to you again.

         3       This bill, while you're projecting numbers,

         4       these are largely guesstimates of the worst

         5       kind.  There is no basis for which these

         6       numbers -- you hear every time we talk a

         7       different set of numbers.  It started out as

         8       $30 million, it then went to the $100 million,

         9       it's now up to $218 million.  There's no way

        10       that this can be done.

        11                  And when I asked you how are we

        12       going to make the label factors, well, we'll

        13       work with the industry and I'm sure something

        14       can happen.  Again, no answer to the question.

        15                  Senator, I suggest to you and I'm

        16       asking if you would agree that this poses a

        17       serious problem with the revenue that this

        18       bill is supposed to generate that adds to the

        19       balancing of this budget.  If the revenue

        20       doesn't come in, is this budget balanced?

        21                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Through you,

        22       Madam Chair.

        23                  First, I'm sure that my

        24       colleague -- I will respectfully suggest that



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         1       New York State is probably the third-biggest

         2       market for most of these national and some

         3       regional retailers.  And so we -- so that

         4       you're -- for full disclosure, one company I

         5       met with six times.  Six.  I went to one

         6       company's facility twice.  Every group that

         7       wanted to participate in this process, I met

         8       on a minimum of one time.  Many of their

         9       recommendations to this bill are a result of

        10       members on both sides of the aisle in addition

        11       to people from industry.

        12                  No industry, for the most part,

        13       will say "Give us more regulation" or "We want

        14       to give you more money."  Most won't.  But I

        15       think if you look at this bill from what was

        16       proposed in December of 2008, you can honestly

        17       say that this bill has been substantially

        18       modified to address many of the issues.

        19                  Is it perfect?  Absolutely not.

        20       But if you talk about equal enforcement of the

        21       Bottle Bill, this addresses that through

        22       posting for consumer rights and the rights of

        23       the store owners.  If you talk about equal

        24       enforcement as relates to big box retailers



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         1       compared to convenience stores and

         2       supermarkets, this bill begins to address

         3       that.  If we talk about making sure that

         4       there's shared sacrifice, this bill addresses

         5       that.

         6                  Do we take 100 percent from the

         7       bottlers like Connecticut just did where

         8       Nestle and Poland Spring is in Connecticut?

         9       We didn't do that.  We offered a compromise.

        10                  In addition to that, I am certain,

        11       with members on both sides of the aisle,

        12       through the regulatory process we will address

        13       even more issues.  But we know and you know,

        14       as someone who's spent a lot of time on

        15       environmental issues, that many of these

        16       companies, whether it's dealing with lead

        17       paint, fire-safe cigarettes, every time we

        18       come up with something to provide more

        19       regulation, they will always say they can't do

        20       it unless government pushes them along.

        21                  And I think this is a fair and a

        22       better deal.  And as I said to someone

        23       yesterday, if they couldn't get this deal in

        24       Connecticut, where Poland Spring is



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         1       headquartered, why would they think they could

         2       get a better deal in New York State?  This is

         3       a better deal than they got in their own home

         4       state of Connecticut.

         5                  Thank you.

         6                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,

         7       Senator.  I just would comment that again,

         8       we'll propose an amendment for the Article 7

         9       bill and we'll expand upon this discussion

        10       more.

        11                  But the numbers that I'm hearing

        12       from you, the initial Bottle Bill -- if you

        13       would continue to yield.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        15       Senator Thompson, do you continue to yield?

        16                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Absolutely.

        17                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    The initial

        18       Bottle Bill included a whole bunch of other

        19       things like juices and other types of drinks.

        20       I heard the same numbers for revenue on that

        21       original Bottle Bill that included juice and

        22       all kinds of other bottled drinks,

        23       noncarbonated bottled drinks, not just water.

        24       But the same numbers, total numbers --



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         1       $218 million, $111 million -- all of this

         2       stuff, same numbers.

         3                  You're taking less product,

         4       Senator.  You're taking less product.  You're

         5       not taking the juices.  Yet you're using the

         6       same revenue source and the same revenue

         7       numbers.  I don't know how that works.  Can

         8       you explain that, please?

         9                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Yes.

        10                  Let me just say this.  Assembly

        11       Bill 9777 and Senate Bill 2831, I believe

        12       those were the two bill numbers that did the

        13       original Bottle Bill, if I'm correct.  And,

        14       you know, what's so fascinating about it is

        15       that I was only 12 years of age at that time.

        16       But I will say that I remember as a young man

        17       going to Detroit, Michigan, where at that

        18       point they had a bottle law, and every summer

        19       I used to -- my aunt owned a store, and I

        20       would wonder why we could take cans back there

        21       and we couldn't do it in New York.

        22                  But you know what, in 1982 they

        23       said that all these companies, they were going

        24       to leave the state, they were going to lay off



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         1       people, it could never be done, it would never

         2       happen.  And I'm sure some of the members on

         3       both sides of the aisle remember those same

         4       things.  Right?  You know that.

         5                  And the fascinating part about this

         6       is that there are people, as you know,

         7       Senator, that are waiting for this to happen

         8       so that redemption centers and other companies

         9       can continue to grow and take the pressure off

        10       our supermarkets.

        11                  And is it a perfect process?  No.

        12       But I can tell you this, that implementing

        13       this bill in 2009 will be a lot easier than it

        14       was in 1982.  And I think everyone, whether

        15       you support the bill or not, would agree with

        16       that.

        17                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Senator, I

        18       would just --

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        20       Senator Marcellino, do you wish Senator

        21       Thompson to continue to yield?

        22                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Yes, if he

        23       would.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:



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         1       Senator Thompson, do you continue to yield?

         2                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Yes.

         3                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Senator, I

         4       wasn't 12 years old in 1982, so I can't relate

         5       to that time frame.  It was a blur.

         6                  (Laughter.)

         7                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    That's more

         8       information than some of my colleagues needed.

         9                  The question that I would like to

        10       ask you is, are you aware of the

        11       overredemption that occurs in those areas of

        12       the state that border other states without the

        13       bottle bill?  Some areas, some stores have

        14       talked about 150, 130, in some cases

        15       approaching double that in redemptions from

        16       other states -- people crossing the line,

        17       going to stores, bringing the bottles bought

        18       in other areas and redeeming them in the

        19       state -- causing a tremendous hardship

        20       financially on the stores in those regions.

        21                  Are you aware of that, and how does

        22       this bill address that?

        23                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Through you,

        24       Madam Chairwoman.  That is the dilemma that we



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         1       have with the existing Bottle Bill and the

         2       expanded.  And that's why there were industry

         3       people and some advocates who wanted a UPC

         4       code, a New York State base.

         5                  The problem that I foresee right

         6       now is that you have the industry and some of

         7       the supermarket chains are mixed on it.  And

         8       so we have to, through the regulatory process,

         9       find out what is the best way in that area.

        10       Because some people want a universal UPC code,

        11       and some people want a New York State-based

        12       one.

        13                  But most of the people have said,

        14       by and large, that many of the issues that

        15       they were concerned about outside of this UPC

        16       code, and maybe one or two small issues, have

        17       said that many of their concerns have been

        18       addressed.

        19                  And I think that process that

        20       you're talking about now, I think we can work

        21       through that process.  And I believe we have

        22       to also be mindful in 1982 they were starting

        23       from scratch.  And we're not starting from

        24       scratch.  We have a lot of folks who have



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         1       institutional knowledge as advocates, as

         2       legislators, as staffers, and as companies as

         3       well.

         4                  So I believe they'll be able to

         5       work through that.  And if you have

         6       suggestions, I'm always available and I'll do

         7       everything to support some of the ones that

         8       make sense.

         9                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Madam

        10       Chairman, if the Senator would continue.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        12       Senator Thompson, do you continue to yield?

        13                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Yes,

        14       absolutely.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        16       The Senator yields.

        17                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    I take

        18       Senator Thompson at his word.  I know he is an

        19       honorable gentleman.  And we have -- as ranker

        20       on the committee now, and he is chairman of

        21       the committee, we have worked well together,

        22       and I respect his leadership.

        23                  The question that I would raise,

        24       though, is in the realm of enforcement.  I do



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         1       not see the DEC doing much in that area that

         2       needs to be done.  You have a tremendous

         3       amount of stores, entities, that give away or

         4       sell sodas and sell bottled drinks that are

         5       now currently under the nickel package.

         6                  And by the way, in 1982 we didn't

         7       have curbside recycling.  So there are

         8       curbside recycling programs out there now that

         9       would address and could address much of this

        10       recycling and getting stuff off the streets.

        11                  With that being said, if you go a

        12       drugstore -- they're selling soda, water,

        13       whatever -- and try to redeem a bag of soda

        14       bottles at your local CVS or Rite Aid, they'll

        15       look at you like cross-eyed, because they

        16       don't have the means of doing it and they

        17       don't even want to do it.

        18                  What in this bill requires or would

        19       get the DEC or would give them the

        20       wherewithal -- because it's my understanding

        21       that their budget has been cut and that their

        22       staffing levels are not what they should be in

        23       order to enforce this bill.  How are they

        24       going to get to the ability to enforce and go



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         1       into those areas -- gas stations, drugstores,

         2       you name it, delis -- that are small and are

         3       not redeeming the bottles currently?  Are they

         4       going to redeem more?

         5                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Very, very

         6       good points.  I want to thank you for that

         7       question, those two specific questions.

         8                  Two things on that item right

         9       there.  Number one, this bill creates a Bigger

        10       Better Bottle Bill hotline.  And I believe

        11       that the number will be on the stickers or

        12       signs that are posted in each of the stores at

        13       the point of sale.

        14                  In addition to that, this bill

        15       allows for coordination between Ag & Markets.

        16       As you know, they have about 150 to 200 folks

        17       on the streets.  I'll get the exact number

        18       before the end of the night.  And they will

        19       also have enforcement authority as well.  In

        20       addition, this bill allows for local

        21       governments to have enforcement of the Bottle

        22       Bill as well.  So you have three sets of eyes

        23       working for enforcement -- which we don't have

        24       now.  Ag & Markets does not have enforcement



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         1       cooperation with DEC.  Local municipal

         2       governments, whether cities or counties,

         3       currently do not have enforcement authority.

         4       And right now, if you go into any of those

         5       stores, at the cash registers, unlike with

         6       cigarettes and unlike with alcohol, there's no

         7       signage that talks about the Bottle Bill of

         8       Rights.

         9                  So I think that it's not perfect,

        10       but the sentiment that has been raised by

        11       people who are even passionately for the issue

        12       and people who are hostilely opposed to it,

        13       some of those issues have been addressed in

        14       the bill.

        15                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Madam

        16       President, through you, if the Senator would

        17       continue to yield.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        19       Senator Thompson, do you continue to yield?

        20                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Yes,

        21       absolutely.

        22                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Senator

        23       Thompson, in the original Bottle Bill, the one

        24       that was amended in the process, the City of



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         1       New York got an exemption for small stores

         2       under 10,000 square feet.  That exemption was

         3       not given to similar-sized stores in the rest

         4       of the state, on Long Island, upstate,

         5       whatever.  Has that been changed in the

         6       current language?

         7                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Through you,

         8       Madam Chair.  Jeez, you should have wrote my

         9       talking points for me.

        10                  Yes, Senator, that has been

        11       addressed.  In the amendment part of this

        12       budget, another thing raised by people not

        13       only in your conference but members of our

        14       conference, statewide there will be a

        15       10,0000-square-foot exemption in terms of you

        16       can only bring, I believe, about 72 containers

        17       at a time.  Right?

        18                  So we have expanded that exemption

        19       statewide as a result of the two hearings, in

        20       addition to conversations and memos from

        21       members on both sides of the aisle.  So that

        22       has been expanded statewide.

        23                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Madam

        24       President, I thank the Senator for his



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         1       comments.

         2                  And I would just urge that we take

         3       a hard look at this piece of legislation.

         4       Because this piece, from all of the industry

         5       that I talked to and all of the people that I

         6       talked to tells me that it is going to hurt

         7       the businesses.  They're going to hurt the

         8       bottling community, they're going to lose jobs

         9       upstate, they're going to lose in the bottling

        10       areas and you're going to lose in the

        11       breweries that are up there.  They're going to

        12       stop expanding, and they're going to cut back

        13       on other things.

        14                  So this is going to hurt jobs, it's

        15       going to hurt the curbside recycling program.

        16       And I think it's a problem that hasn't been

        17       thought out carefully.  I think that the

        18       revenue stream is questionable on this one, at

        19       best.  It is a guesstimate at best, Senator.

        20                  I respect your concerns, I respect

        21       your efforts.  But I thank you for your

        22       attention.

        23                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Just in

        24       conclusion on the En Con budget, but also a



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         1       couple of other things that I think that are

         2       important to note on the Bottle Bill.

         3                  Number one, the issue of curbside

         4       recycling.  The State of New York, through the

         5       EPF, is going to spend $10.8 million this year

         6       on municipal recycling.  And as many of us

         7       know, volunteer recycling programs in some

         8       areas of the state are better; in other areas,

         9       they are not.

        10                  I am committed to work with

        11       individuals to make sure that that

        12       $10.8 million is better spent by

        13       municipalities and local governments as it

        14       relates to curbside recycling.  I agree with

        15       you, we've got to do a better job.  But we've

        16       been spending this money for many years, and

        17       we have not gotten the desired results.

        18                  The last thing I believe is

        19       important to note is about the 1982 issue.  In

        20       1982, everyone said, we were starting from

        21       scratch.  We had no infrastructure in place.

        22       And they said that companies were going to

        23       leave, people were going to lose their jobs.

        24       And people came together, and they made it



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         1       happen.

         2                  And I believe that this bill today

         3       is a compromise bill.  We tried to address

         4       many of the issues.  And as many of you can

         5       tell, that we spent a lot of time carefully

         6       thinking through some of the concerns.

         7                  People said to me, don't put a

         8       48-ounce bottle of tomato juice or V-8 juice

         9       on this list.  All right, we said; I can

        10       understand that.  Somebody said don't put baby

        11       formula on the list.  We heard them.  Somebody

        12       said, well, I know we want to do sports drinks

        13       and other ice teas and Snapples.  A gentleman

        14       came from New York City or Long Island and

        15       said, "I know that Red Bull sells at a rapid

        16       rate, but please, not this time.  Can we do

        17       that at another phase?"

        18                  So we heard a lot of concerns that

        19       people have raised.  All right?  We have.  But

        20       at the same time, as we said in the process --

        21       in public, through the hearings -- that we've

        22       got to take a step.  We've got to take a first

        23       step.

        24                  And I believe that this is a first



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         1       step, it's the right step.  If it's good

         2       enough for Connecticut, where Poland Spring is

         3       located, it's good enough for New York, which

         4       is the third-biggest state in the union.

         5                  Thank you.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         7       Senator Young.

         8                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Thank you, Madam

         9       President.

        10                  I actually had a question for

        11       Senator Aubertine, but I don't see him in the

        12       chamber at this particular moment.  So I'll be

        13       able to discuss this with him tomorrow, I'm

        14       sure.

        15                  But I do want to take this

        16       opportunity to address a concern that Senator

        17       Kruger brought up previously about the

        18       $1 billion undesignated fund that's included

        19       in this budget.

        20                  And I'd like to correct the chair

        21       of Senate Finance about the definition of a

        22       dry appropriation.  A dry appropriation is an

        23       item that's included in the budget that you're

        24       not going to spend.  It will not be spent.



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         1                  However, if you have an

         2       undesignated fund and you will be expending

         3       that money and the purpose is not lined out in

         4       the budget and it will be spent at a later

         5       time, it is in fact a slush fund.

         6                  Thank you, Madam President.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         8       Senator Bonacic.

         9                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Thank you,

        10       Madam President.

        11                  Will Senator Kruger just yield for

        12       a quick question.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        14       Senator Kruger, do you yield?

        15                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I do,

        16       Madam President.

        17                  SENATOR BONACIC:    I'd like to get

        18       back to the Empire Zone, if I may.

        19                  It's my understanding that under

        20       this budget proposal the local zone manager

        21       will be eliminated and all decisions of future

        22       financial assistance will be made by the

        23       Empire State Development Corp.  Is that

        24       correct?



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         1                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Through

         2       you, Madam President, yes, that's true.

         3                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Thank you.

         4       Thank you, Senator Kruger.

         5                  You can rest now.  On the bill.

         6                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Oh, that

         7       was easy.

         8                  SENATOR BONACIC:    I want you to

         9       relax.  You've been working hard tonight.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        11       Senator Bonacic, on the bill.

        12                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Thank you,

        13       Madam President.

        14                  SENATOR BONACIC:    I just want to

        15       share a couple of experiences about the Empire

        16       Zone, if I may.

        17                  When this was implemented under

        18       Governor Pataki, this was an economic tool to

        19       try to help upstate.  And what we found when

        20       companies came in and filled out applications,

        21       and they said in three years we're going to

        22       create 800 jobs, let's say, or in five years,

        23       in stages.  And what happens is let's say they

        24       only made 500 jobs; they came up short.



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         1                  But what happened was technology

         2       became more efficient.  And they used

         3       technology to make their operations and bottom

         4       line more successful, and they didn't need to

         5       enhance those jobs.  It doesn't mean that the

         6       Empire Zone was not successful.  It was very

         7       successful, because we wouldn't have gotten

         8       500 jobs in areas that were not doing well.

         9                  Now, when we discussed the Empire

        10       Zones, as Senator Thompson did, and Senator

        11       Stachowski, you can't analyze it just with the

        12       mechanisms of how the zone is going to work.

        13       You have to look at the total picture.  And

        14       what do I mean by that?

        15                  When Governor Paterson gave his

        16       proposal of changing the rules from 15 to 1 to

        17       20 to 1, retroactively, he basically said, to

        18       corporations and small businesses, drop dead.

        19       That's what he said.  And the highest elected

        20       official in the State of New York, that was

        21       his message.

        22                  Now, Senator Stachowski stood up

        23       here and he said, in speaking to Senator

        24       Nozzolio, didn't we make it better, didn't we



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         1       change, didn't we salvage the 15 to 1 but

         2       prospectively the rules would be 20 to 1?

         3       Isn't it better?  He tried to get Senator

         4       Nozzolio to say yes.

         5                  The way corporate America works,

         6       the way small businesses work, they make --

         7       first of all, let's talk about corporate

         8       America.  They're answerable to their

         9       stockholders, and the bottom line is profit

        10       and certainty when they plan.

        11                  Under this proposal, they don't

        12       know what's going to happen in 15 months.

        13       What does Senator Stachowski say?  He says

        14       there's going to be a better tomorrow.  That's

        15       why we made the day shorter, because we will

        16       do something better for you.

        17                  How can corporation and small

        18       business trust that policy when the Governor

        19       has already said drop dead, when he's kept the

        20       20-to-1 formula prospectively if a company

        21       wants to expand and the rules are vague, when

        22       the local zone guy is now eliminated, it's now

        23       made by the Empire State Development for

        24       future financial assistance that answers to



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         1       Governor Paterson.

         2                  How can anyone say these are not

         3       negative messages to small businesses and

         4       corporations?  And when we go here to try to

         5       have credibility to small businesses and

         6       corporations, are we not taxing them more?

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         8       Senator Krueger, why do you rise?

         9                  SENATOR BONACIC:    I will not -- I

        10       will not -- Senator Krueger, I don't mean to

        11       be disrespectful, but I'd like to finish my

        12       thoughts.

        13                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    I didn't

        14       even ask yet.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        16       I just asked her why she rose, and she --

        17                  SENATOR BONACIC:    I hate to say

        18       no to her, so I'm asking her not to.

        19                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    I will wait

        20       to ask my question until Senator Bonacic is

        21       done.

        22                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Thank you,

        23       Senator Krueger.  And I didn't miss my train

        24       of thought, either, by you standing up.



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         1                  (Laughter.)

         2                  SENATOR BONACIC:    When you

         3       increase personal income taxes, don't you

         4       think that's a message of economic destruction

         5       to small businesses and corporations that are

         6       interested in profit, that are interested in

         7       bottom line to their stockholders?  Don't you

         8       think when you raise electric rates by

         9       $600 million that's not economic destruction

        10       messages to these companies?  Don't you think

        11       when you raise health insurance premiums by

        12       $240 million that's not a negative message to

        13       companies?

        14                  So to discuss Empire Zones without

        15       discussing the total message, it's not

        16       realistic.  The Manhattan Institute alone

        17       estimates that the PIT increase of the

        18       personal income tax, that will be 15,000 jobs

        19       lost, small businesses.

        20                  So I think Senator Nozzolio and

        21       Senator Winner are absolutely correct.  People

        22       are going to vote with their feet.  This is a

        23       job-killer.  And they're going to look to go

        24       to more fertile pastures than the State of



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         1       New York.

         2                  And I will say, in conclusion, when

         3       the recovery comes -- and I hope to God it

         4       comes sooner rather than later -- I believe

         5       that the State of New York will lag in job

         6       growth from the nation because of the budget

         7       and the destructive policies and job-killing

         8       policies we're doing in this legislation.

         9                  Thank you, Madam President.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        11       Senator Liz Krueger.

        12                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        13       Madam President.  Would Senator Bonacic please

        14       yield for a question?

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        16       Senator Bonacic, do you yield?

        17                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Absolutely.

        18                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        19       Senator Bonacic.

        20                  So you referenced in your points

        21       that this was a program started for upstate

        22       New York.  It's my understanding it was

        23       actually started statewide and that it's gone

        24       through a series of different changes and



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         1       reforms over the course of history.  Is that

         2       correct?

         3                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Yes, it's true.

         4                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         5                  And Senator -- I'm sorry, through

         6       you, Madam President, if Senator Bonacic would

         7       continue to yield.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         9       Do you continue to yield, Senator?

        10                  SENATOR BONACIC:    I will.  And

        11       you can keep asking as many questions as you

        12       like without going the chair.

        13                  SENATOR L. KRUEGER:    No, we love

        14       the etiquette.  Thank you so much.

        15                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Okay.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        17       We need the protocol.

        18                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    We need the

        19       president to feel she has a role here.  Excuse

        20       me.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        22       It's protocol.

        23                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        24                  Senator Bonacic, are you familiar



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         1       with the series that the Syracuse 

         2       Post-Standard has done on exploitation of the

         3       Empire Zone program by some?

         4                  SENATOR BONACIC:    I have no clue

         5       what that newspaper said.  I don't usually pay

         6       attention to newspapers.

         7                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Madam

         8       President, if the Senator would continue to

         9       yield.

        10                  SENATOR BONACIC:    I will.

        11                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        12                  Well, I enjoy a good newspaper, and

        13       I think the Syracuse Post-Standard is a

        14       particularly good one.  But they've done a

        15       series of articles about problems with the

        16       Empire Zones.  And in fact, out of some of the

        17       findings of the reports, we did some reforms

        18       to Empire Zones, in fact, when your side of

        19       the aisle was the majority here.

        20                  And you referenced tonight concerns

        21       that we were trying to destroy the program,

        22       which I don't agree with.  I believe we have

        23       to reform the program.  But you referenced

        24       that the proposal in this bill would destroy



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         1       the program.

         2                  And do you know that the changes to

         3       the Empire Zone in this bill are the

         4       following:  To cut out shirt-changers from

         5       being allowed to take tax deductions under

         6       this law, which means the "shirt-changers"

         7       expression for companies that don't create new

         8       jobs but change their corporate title in order

         9       to appear to have created jobs.  And that's

        10       one of the proposals of change to the Empire

        11       Zone in this law.

        12                  Are you comfortable with allowing

        13       companies that haven't created any new jobs

        14       and didn't even try to create new jobs, just

        15       changed their names to be able to continue to

        16       get Empire Zone credits?

        17                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Through you,

        18       Madam President.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        20       Senator.

        21                  SENATOR BONACIC:    First of all, I

        22       think there is an order process through Tax &

        23       Finance that will take advantage or root out

        24       those that are not performing up to the



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         1       benchmarks of the Empire Zone.

         2                  But when I spoke of the Empire

         3       Zone, I spoke about an economic tool that

         4       generally has been successful and is worth

         5       keeping.  Now, you if want to tinker with the

         6       edges but keep the substance and the impact of

         7       the Empire Zone, then I say we're in

         8       agreement.  But if you pick out one company or

         9       one reform and say that's the reason to kill

        10       the Empire Zone, I say that it's an overkill

        11       and we've gone too far.

        12                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Madam

        13       President, if through you the Senator will

        14       continue to yield.

        15                  SENATOR BONACIC:    I will.

        16                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        17                  So we discussed one of the proposed

        18       changes in the Empire Zone program, which is

        19       companies that did not create jobs but changed

        20       their names.  The second piece of this

        21       proposal in the bill tonight is to require

        22       that a business have a cost-benefit ratio of

        23       more than 1 to 1 in order to be able to

        24       participate in the program.



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         1                  That simply means if a company's

         2       costs for a job are greater to the state than

         3       the actual value of the job, then we would

         4       actually be able to say no, you're costing the

         5       state more than you've even produced in jobs.

         6                  Do you think that that's wrong to

         7       say to the companies not 20-to-1 ratio, not

         8       15-to-1 ratio, not 10-to-1 ratio, not 5-to-1

         9       ratio, but this proposal in this bill tonight

        10       is only a less than 1-to-1 ratio, we're trying

        11       to be able to remove them from the program?

        12       What do you think of that, sir?

        13                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Through you,

        14       Madam President.  The 1-to-1 ratio, as I

        15       understand it, applies to the companies

        16       retroactively since the Empire Zone was cited.

        17       And it means simply this.  If they have spent

        18       more in private benefits, $1.10 versus $1 of

        19       public benefits, they will not be certified.

        20       That was a change that was made that was

        21       better than the Governor's proposal of 20 to

        22       1.  That's a good thing.  That portion is a

        23       good thing.

        24                  But, Madam President, I would like



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         1       to ask Senator Krueger a question, if she will

         2       yield to a question.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         4       Senator Krueger, do you yield?

         5                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    I'd be

         6       happy to yield to a question, Senator.

         7                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Senator

         8       Krueger, do you think when we increase the tax

         9       rates on businesses and do you agree that if

        10       we raise the electric surcharges on business

        11       and do you believe if we increase the cost of

        12       health insurance premiums on business that

        13       that will have a negative effect on the

        14       creation of jobs, whether they're in the

        15       Empire Zone or not, whether it's retroactive

        16       or prospective?  What do you think about that?

        17                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    I think

        18       that taxes always have an impact on economic

        19       activity, that there are taxes that do more

        20       harm to business and taxes that do less harm

        21       to business.

        22                  But what I'm sure of is that if you

        23       want to have a state that has a business

        24       community and that thrives in the 21st



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         1       century, you have to make sure that your

         2       population is well educated so that they can

         3       be the workers for the businesses.  You have

         4       to make sure that you have a public

         5       infrastructure so that people can move around

         6       the state.  You have to make sure that you

         7       have quality healthcare; otherwise, no one

         8       will be interested in living in the state.

         9                  And to oversimplify, I sometimes

        10       explain myself, when I talk about taxation and

        11       the realities of the role of government, is if

        12       you're a business and you want to hire people

        13       to work in your business, you have to make

        14       sure that they have the right education level

        15       and can get to where you have your jobs.

        16                  And if you're a business that's

        17       selling something -- and all businesses are

        18       selling something -- you have to make sure

        19       that people can earn enough in their jobs to

        20       be able to buy whatever you're trying to sell.

        21                  So it's a broad question with a

        22       broad answer.  But again, to get to Empire

        23       Zones -- and maybe I'll just speak on the bill

        24       rather than ask you an additional question



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         1       unless you have a question for me first.

         2                  SENATOR BONACIC:    I do.

         3                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Madam

         4       President, I'm sorry, that should have gone

         5       through you.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         7       Senator Bonacic, do you have a question for

         8       Senator Krueger?

         9                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Will Senator

        10       Krueger continue to yield to another question?

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        12       Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?

        13                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Yes, I'd be

        14       happy to, Senator Bonacic.

        15                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Do you think if

        16       government policies tax more and take capital

        17       away from small businesses and corporations

        18       that that will lead to more jobs or they will

        19       have less money to create new jobs?

        20                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    No, I think

        21       it's a catch-22.  As I've explained, that you

        22       have to make sure that you're balancing the

        23       public's need for an operating government and

        24       a quality of life in the state in order to be



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         1       a win for the businesses.

         2                  And no, you of course want to try

         3       to keep your tax rate as minimal as possible

         4       in relationship to your cost.

         5                  But I think in terms of an Empire

         6       Zone, another factor that's critically

         7       important for people to understand, this isn't

         8       taxing businesses.  In an Empire Zone, we are

         9       making a decision -- we the Legislature,

        10       through the legislation we pass -- to be

        11       selectively not taxing businesses.  So in an

        12       Empire Zone, they're getting to reduce their

        13       taxes compared to another business.

        14                  So if Senator Kruger's widget

        15       company is physically in Ulster County and

        16       Senator Bonacic's widget company is in Orange

        17       County, and Kruger's widgets are made in an

        18       Empire Zone and Bonacic widgets are not, the

        19       reality is we are favoring Senator Kruger's

        20       widgets over Senator Bonacic's widgets.

        21                  So it's a dual responsibility of

        22       government.  One, we're not collecting the tax

        23       revenue, which means, to follow through on

        24       another question, we have less money to pay



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         1       for schools that people were concerned about,

         2       to pay for highways that people were concerned

         3       about, to pay for the environment that people

         4       were concerned about, because we chose not to

         5       tax Senator Kruger's widgets.  So that's a

         6       heavy responsibility.

         7                  And I think we should be very

         8       careful about how we select to give people tax

         9       breaks over other people or other companies.

        10       So I have an equity concern, which is why I'm

        11       very comfortable with putting a limit that

        12       shirt-changing companies shouldn't get these

        13       tax deductions and companies that can't even

        14       make a 1-to-1 economic ratio shouldn't get

        15       these special deals.

        16                  And then, two, there's the

        17       fundamental question of equity, which I think

        18       is hard to deal with in the context of Empire

        19       Zones.  Which means because of physically

        20       where I'm located, I might get a major

        21       advantage over your company and we might both

        22       make perfectly good, quality widgets.

        23                  And so there are hard questions

        24       with the Empire Zone that are much broader



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         1       than just what level of tax do you charge a

         2       company.  Because in fact in this discussion,

         3       it's what level of tax deductions do we give.

         4       And of course, as we know, the Empire Zone

         5       program is costing the people of New York

         6       $600, $700, $800 million a year.

         7                  The proposed changes in this bill I

         8       hope we will pass soon is only $90 million in

         9       savings.  And there's quite a bit of

        10       flexibility in it, because even under those

        11       two changes it allows the DED to make a

        12       decision to allow a company to continue in the

        13       program even if they don't appear to meet the

        14       standards.  And in fact, the Senate policy in

        15       this bill tonight, as compared to the

        16       Executive's original proposal, is saving 8,180

        17       companies from losing their Empire Zone

        18       status.

        19                  And so I think we made a very good

        20       deal on the Empire Zones this year.  We

        21       allowed almost 8200 companies to remain in the

        22       program.  We put some very reasonable limits

        23       on the type of companies that would no longer

        24       be able to participate.  We are not



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         1       retroactively asking for the money back, to

         2       also answer a question of yours.  So companies

         3       who may have been more effective in meeting

         4       our standards earlier, they're not being asked

         5       to give the money back.

         6                  So actually I think we are making a

         7       great deal of progress with Empire Zones this

         8       year.  And while there may be lots of

         9       discussions about different parts of the bill,

        10       I would be very surprised if anyone would want

        11       to vote against this section of the bill

        12       tonight.

        13                  Thank you.

        14                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Thank you,

        15       Senator Krueger.

        16                  Continuing on the bill.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        18       Senator Bonacic, on the bill.

        19                  SENATOR BONACIC:    A lot of

        20       Senator Krueger's remarks, again, brought the

        21       conversation solely to the companies in the

        22       Empire Zones and those that are not concerning

        23       widgets.  And that's really a distraction.

        24       Because what we have said is that we are



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         1       competing now.  We are competing in a global

         2       economy, we are competing with neighboring

         3       states.  And we have to stay competitive.

         4                  I think we have probably one of the

         5       highest tax rates in the nation, and it's

         6       going to get worse.  And all of these efforts

         7       of raising electric rates, raising health

         8       insurance policies, raising taxes, making the

         9       Empire Zone more strict, these are negative

        10       messages to small businesses and corporations.

        11       And they have mobility, and they will vote

        12       with their feet.  So the point that I'm making

        13       is this is an anti-business, job-killing

        14       budget.

        15                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    Thank

        17       you, Senator Bonacic.

        18                  Are there any other Senators who

        19       wish to speak on the bill?

        20                  Seeing none, the debate is closed.

        21                  The Secretary will ring the bells.

        22       I ask all Senators to come to the chamber to

        23       cast their votes.

        24                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Mr. President, I



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         1       would request a slow roll call on this bill,

         2       please.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    A slow

         4       roll call has been requested.  The requisite

         5       five Senators have stood, so we will proceed

         6       with the slow roll call.

         7                  The Secretary will read the last

         8       section.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        10       act shall take effect immediately.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    A slow

        12       roll call has been called for.  Seeing that

        13       five Senators have risen, the Secretary will

        14       call the roll slowly.

        15                  And I ask that Senators who wish to

        16       explain their vote be mindful of the

        17       two-minute rule.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Adams.

        19                  SENATOR ADAMS:    Yes.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Addabbo.

        21                  SENATOR ADDABBO:    Yes.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Alesi.

        23                  SENATOR ALESI:    No.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator



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         1       Aubertine.

         2                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Bonacic.

         4                  SENATOR BONACIC:    No.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Breslin.

         6                  SENATOR BRESLIN:    Yes.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator

         8       DeFrancisco.

         9                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    No.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Diaz.

        11                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Yes.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Dilan.

        13                  (No response.)

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Duane.

        15                  SENATOR DUANE:    Yes.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Espada.

        17                  SENATOR ESPADA:    Yes.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Farley.

        19                  SENATOR FARLEY:    No.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Flanagan.

        21                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    No.

        22                  (Standing ovation as Senator

        23       Hassell-Thompson enters the chamber.)

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The



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         1       Secretary will continue to call the roll

         2       slowly.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Foley.

         4                  SENATOR FOLEY:    Aye.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator

         6       Fuschillo.

         7                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    No.

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Golden.

         9                  SENATOR GOLDEN:    No.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Griffo.

        11                  SENATOR GRIFFO:    No.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Hannon.

        13                  SENATOR HANNON:    No.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator

        15       Hassell-Thompson.

        16                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Here,

        17       and yes.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Huntley.

        19                  SENATOR HUNTLEY:    Yes.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator C.

        21       Johnson.

        22                  SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:    Yes.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator O.

        24       Johnson.



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         1                  SENATOR OWEN JOHNSON:    No.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Klein.

         3                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator

         5       L. Krueger.

         6                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Yes.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator C.

         8       Kruger.

         9                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Lanza.

        11                  SENATOR LANZA:    No.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Larkin.

        13                  SENATOR LARKIN:    No.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator LaValle.

        15                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    No.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Leibell.

        17                  SENATOR LEIBELL:    No.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Libous.

        19                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    No.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Little.

        21                  SENATOR LITTLE:    No.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator

        23       Marcellino.

        24                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    No.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Maziarz.

         2                  SENATOR MAZIARZ:    No.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator McDonald.

         4                  SENATOR McDONALD:    No.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator

         6       Monserrate.

         7                  SENATOR MONSERRATE:    Aye.

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator

         9       Montgomery.

        10                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Morahan.

        12                  SENATOR MORAHAN:    No.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Nozzolio.

        14                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    No.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Onorato.

        16                  SENATOR ONORATO:    Yes.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator

        18       Oppenheimer.

        19                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Aye.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Padavan.

        21                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    No.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Parker.

        23                  SENATOR PARKER:    Aye.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Perkins.



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         1                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Aye.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator

         3       Ranzenhofer.

         4                  SENATOR RANZENHOFER:    No.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Robach.

         6                  SENATOR ROBACH:    No.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Saland.

         8                  SENATOR SALAND:    No.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Sampson.

        10                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Yes.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Savino.

        12                  SENATOR SAVINO:    Yes.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator

        14       Schneiderman.

        15                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Yes.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Serrano.

        17                  SENATOR SERRANO:    Yes.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Seward.

        19                  SENATOR SEWARD:    No.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Skelos.

        21                  (Senator Skelos was recorded in the

        22       negative.)

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Smith.

        24                  (Senator Smith was recorded in the



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         1       affirmative.)

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Squadron.

         3                  SENATOR SQUADRON:    Yes.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator

         5       Stachowski.

         6                  SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Yes.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Stavisky.

         8                  SENATOR STAVISKY:    Aye.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator

        10       Stewart-Cousins.

        11                  SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS:    Yes.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Thompson.

        13                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Yes.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Valesky.

        15                  SENATOR VALESKY:    Aye.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Volker.

        17                  SENATOR VOLKER:    No.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Winner.

        19                  SENATOR WINNER:    No.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Young.

        21                  SENATOR YOUNG:    No.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

        23       Secretary will call the absentees.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Dilan.



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         1                  SENATOR DILAN:    I'm here, and

         2       it's yes.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         4       Secretary will announce the results.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 32.  Nays,

         6       30.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    The

         8       bill is passed.

         9                  Senator Klein.

        10                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, I

        11       move that we adjourn until Wednesday,

        12       April 1st, at 9:30.

        13                  And I want to tell my colleagues on

        14       both sides of the aisle we're going to be

        15       doing a lot of work to pass our budget

        16       tomorrow, as well as West Point Day, so please

        17       be on time.

        18                  I'd also now like to call on my

        19       colleague Senator Libous for his announcement.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

        21       Senator Libous.

        22                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you,

        23       Senator Klein.

        24                  Mr. President, there will be a



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         1       Republican conference tomorrow morning at 9:15

         2       sharp.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:    A

         4       Republican conference at 9:15 tomorrow.

         5                  On a motion by Senator Klein, the

         6       Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow,

         7       April 1st, at 9:30 a.m.

         8                  (Whereupon, at 10:00 p.m., the

         9       Senate adjourned.)

        10

        11

        12

        13

        14

        15

        16

        17

        18

        19

        20

        21

        22

        23

        24



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