Regular Session - September 10, 2009

                                                            6843



         1                 NEW YORK STATE SENATE

         2

         3

         4                THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

         5

         6

         7

         8

         9                   ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                  September 10, 2009

        11                       3:37 p.m.

        12

        13

        14                    REGULAR SESSION

        15

        16

        17

        18  SENATOR NEIL D. BRESLIN, Acting President

        19  ANGELO J. APONTE, Secretary

        20

        21

        22

        23

        24



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         1                 P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         3       Senate will please come to order.

         4                  I ask all to rise and recite the

         5       Pledge of Allegiance.

         6                  (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

         7       the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    In the

         9       absence of clergy, may we bow our heads for a

        10       moment of silence.

        11                  (Whereupon, the assemblage

        12       respected a moment of silence.)

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        14       reading of the Journal.

        15                  The Secretary will read.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

        17       Wednesday, September 9, the Senate met

        18       pursuant to adjournment.  The Journal of

        19       Tuesday, September 8, was read and approved.

        20       On motion, Senate adjourned.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        22       Without objection, the Journal stands approved

        23       as read.

        24                  Senator Sampson.



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         1                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Thank you very

         2       much, Mr. President.

         3                  I just rise and ask my colleagues

         4       that we have a moment of silence to

         5       commemorate those individuals who lost their

         6       lives on September 11, 2001.

         7                  Eight years ago, we experienced the

         8       terrorist attacks that attacked our freedom

         9       and most of all our power here in the United

        10       States of America.  And what happened that day

        11       just exemplified the commitment and dedication

        12       that we as American people have, and our

        13       resolve.

        14                  And I just want to take time out to

        15       commemorate not only those who lost their

        16       lives, but also the members of our armed force

        17       who fought in Afghanistan and Iraq to make

        18       sure they preserve our freedom, our ability to

        19       be here today and to conduct business.

        20                  So I think it's fitting, especially

        21       on this day, September 10th, and tomorrow

        22       being September 11th, eight years ago.  And we

        23       all lost family and friends or we know someone

        24       who lost their lives on September 11th.  And I



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         1       just want to have a moment of silence for

         2       those, just to commemorate those who gave

         3       their lives for the most important thing that

         4       we have here in America, and that at times we

         5       take for granted -- and that's life, liberty,

         6       and the pursuit of happiness.

         7                  So if we can have a moment of

         8       silence, unless some of my colleagues would

         9       also like to speak.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        11       Senator Skelos.

        12                  SENATOR SKELOS:    Thank you very

        13       much, Mr. President.

        14                  Senator Sampson, I appreciate -- I

        15       think all of us -- your leadership in taking a

        16       moment to reflect upon the attack that

        17       occurred on our nation, the attack that

        18       occurred on our values that exist within this

        19       country, the hatred that was expressed against

        20       our nation on that day, and certainly all of

        21       our it could be family members, neighbors,

        22       friends that we lost on September 11th.

        23                  As time passes on, I think with all

        24       of us -- and perhaps that is one of the better



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         1       traits of human beings -- that bad memories

         2       tend to disappear a little bit.  And we are

         3       more of an optimistic people here in the

         4       United States, and we think about good more

         5       than we think about evil.  And I think that's

         6       proper.  But it's also proper every year, and

         7       I know all of us tomorrow, the next day, will

         8       be attending memorial services and

         9       remembrances for those that we lost on

        10       September 11th.

        11                  All of us during that period of

        12       time saw tragedy, saw families brutalized by

        13       loss.  I know that within my own community,

        14       and I think those of us who live closer to the

        15       city saw families destroyed, brothers, sisters

        16       killed -- one family I know in my community, a

        17       brother and a brother-in-law -- young men and

        18       women on the verge of their own personal

        19       greatness in terms of success within their own

        20       professions, bringing up their families.

        21       Seeing young kids who lost their parents.  Our

        22       firefighters, our police, those in our

        23       uniformed services.

        24                  You know, when we think about



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         1       things that we do to help them, we should also

         2       reflect upon the sacrifice that they make:

         3       The fact that so many firemen ran in and lost

         4       their lives.  The fact that families did not

         5       have truly a real opportunity in so many

         6       instances to bury their loved ones.

         7                  So, Senator Sampson, I thank you

         8       for this opportunity to speak.  I think all of

         9       us will always remember 9/11.  We'll remember

        10       where we were.  But most importantly, we'll

        11       remember those who lost their lives, the

        12       innocent lives, and those who sacrificed their

        13       lives trying to save.

        14                  So again, Senator Sampson, thank

        15       you.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        17       you, Senator Skelos.

        18                  Senator Smith.

        19                  SENATOR SMITH:    Thank you very

        20       much, Mr. President.

        21                  Senator Sampson, thank you for

        22       bringing this very sensitive issue to our

        23       floor.

        24                  Tomorrow will commemorate one of



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         1       the worst moments that this country has ever

         2       seen.  In particular, it happened in New York,

         3       it happened in Lower Manhattan, the financial

         4       capital of the world, which has never been the

         5       same since then.

         6                  The families that were impacted by

         7       that -- not only our personal friends, friends

         8       that we don't even know -- will never forget

         9       it.  There is no time in the last seven to

        10       eight years have I heard a day go by where

        11       someone has not made reference to 9/11 and

        12       that tragedy.

        13                  The district that I represent,

        14       Far Rockaway, one of the areas which was

        15       hardest hit, had the largest numbers of

        16       individuals that were lost in terms of

        17       firefighters in one grouping.  Whenever I am

        18       out there, you can sense and feel how people's

        19       lives have changed forever.

        20                  What's important for each of us to

        21       remember is that it only takes a moment for

        22       one of us to lose a loved one.  It only takes

        23       a moment for us at times to forget what people

        24       have gone through.  So I think what Senator



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         1       Sampson has brought forward, while it is a

         2       tragedy, it is something that we have to keep

         3       in our minds at all times.

         4                  We pray every day -- I know I pray

         5       every day -- but there is no amount of prayers

         6       that is going to provide the kind of solace to

         7       that young lady or that young woman tomorrow

         8       when they wake up and every network is saying

         9       something about what occurred.  Or that

        10       picture that we all saw, the World Trade

        11       Center -- I'll never forget it, I was on the

        12       shores of Rockaway watching the World Trade

        13       Center collapse.  It's something that I will

        14       never, ever forget.  There was an eerie

        15       silence in the air when that moment occurred,

        16       and many people thought that much more would

        17       have happened.

        18                  This is a moment that we also have

        19       to be thankful for also our troops, those

        20       family members who are not with us and will

        21       not be with us because they are protecting us

        22       to make sure that nothing like 9/11 happens

        23       again.  And we have not had such a tragedy

        24       since then.



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         1                  I just want the families of all

         2       those individuals -- as well as those families

         3       who were part and witnessed what happened

         4       months after that, with Flight 587, that also

         5       had a major impact on the Rockaways -- that we

         6       will never forget them.  We understand what it

         7       means to lose a loved one.  I'm sure everyone

         8       in this room at some point in time has done

         9       that, it has happened to them.  And that we

        10       will continue to pray with the families.

        11                  We will continue to work with the

        12       families.  We know how important that memorial

        13       is.  We will continue to work with the

        14       Governor and the Mayor, the Speaker, to make

        15       sure that that memorial is completed and it is

        16       one that represents the thoughts and prayers

        17       of everyone in this room.

        18                  Thank you very much, Senator

        19       Sampson, for bringing this forward.

        20                  Senator Skelos, thank you for your

        21       comments as well.

        22                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        24       you, Senator Smith.



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         1                  Senator Adams.

         2                  SENATOR ADAMS:    Thank you,

         3       Mr. President.

         4                  I too want to thank Senator Sampson

         5       for bringing this moment that we're going to

         6       take a stay of our lives and just pause in

         7       remembrance of September 11.  I think that

         8       throughout our life there are incidents that

         9       we benchmark our lives by, and we can all say

        10       where and what we were doing on that day.

        11                  I just want to talk about one

        12       person in particular.  His name was Officer

        13       John Perry.  John Perry was retiring on

        14       September 11th.  He was down at One Police

        15       Plaza turning in his shield and his ID card, a

        16       formality that a police officer goes through

        17       at the conclusion of his career.

        18                  When the planes attacked, the first

        19       and second plane, John Perry went back into

        20       One Police Plaza and bought a uniform shirt so

        21       that he could have a uniform shirt on and be

        22       able to go inside the Trade Center and save

        23       lives.  It was some weeks later that we found

        24       his body inside the center; he died and never



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         1       was able to leave after the center crumbled.

         2                  I was a lieutenant in the Police

         3       Department during the incident, and I remember

         4       the scene as we went there and just realizing

         5       that there are those who spend their entire

         6       lives attempting to harm Americans.  That is

         7       their passion, that is their desire.

         8                  And we cannot allow the luxury of

         9       time to make us believe that that form of

        10       disdain and hate will dissipate with time.  It

        11       is as alive as September 11th was then; it's

        12       still live today.  And we must remain forever

        13       vigilant to make sure that our law enforcement

        14       officers are given the necessary equipment,

        15       the necessary laws, and the necessary

        16       resources to ensure that they can protect

        17       those who are part of this great country.

        18                  I think that it is imperative that

        19       we remember the countless number of men and

        20       women that not only don the gray uniforms of

        21       state troopers or blue uniforms of New York

        22       City police officers, but also green fatigues

        23       in Afghanistan and in Baghdad, and some of our

        24       state troopers that protect the Amtrak and



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         1       other locations within our state.

         2                  This is a real issue.  And by

         3       pausing today, we realize that we must remain

         4       vigilant, we must remain steadfast, and we

         5       must ensure that those officers like Officer

         6       Perry did not lose their life in vain.

         7                  And to his family and to the

         8       countless number of men and women who not only

         9       died on that day but are continuing to have to

        10       deal with the many health issues that are

        11       coming from the attack on September 11th, I

        12       think our state owes them the obligation and

        13       responsibility to protect them and their

        14       families.

        15                  I thank you, Mr. President.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        17       you, Senator Adams.

        18                  Senator Perkins.

        19                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Thank you,

        20       Mr. President.

        21                  I just wanted to first thank our

        22       leader for giving us this opportunity to

        23       reflect on the significance of the occasion.

        24       For my family, it's a very, very personal



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         1       thing because my cousin, Clyde Frazier, Jr.,

         2       lost his son in that tragic day.

         3                  But as saddened as we may be, we

         4       also are reminded of the privilege that we

         5       have here to represent our communities and to

         6       represent our flag in the ways that we can.

         7       And just yesterday, thanks to Senator

         8       Squadron, I had the opportunity to conduct

         9       some hearings at the World Trade Center

        10       through the committee that I have the

        11       privilege of representing.

        12                  And I'm also reminded that beyond

        13       just that site and beyond just that memorial

        14       are concerns of that community that are still

        15       suffering the tragedy.  The living are still

        16       suffering the consequences of that attack --

        17       not just on that particular site not just with

        18       respect to the World Trade Center -- and that

        19       daily they live with it and how important is

        20       the work that we do to help overcome that.

        21                  And so thank you again, Senator

        22       Sampson, for helping us to reflect and to

        23       understand our focus and the opportunities

        24       that we have to correct some of the damage



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         1       that may have been done as a result of that

         2       tragic attack on our city, on our state, on

         3       our nation.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         5       you, Senator Perkins.

         6                  I'd ask all to rise for a moment

         7       silence.

         8                  (Whereupon, the assemblage

         9       respected a moment of silence.)

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        11       Continuing with the regular order of business.

        12                  Presentation of petitions.

        13                  Messages from the Assembly.

        14                  Messages from the Governor.

        15                  Reports of standing questions.

        16                  Reports of select committees.

        17                  Communications and reports from

        18       state officers.

        19                  Motions and resolutions.

        20                  Senator Smith.

        21                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes,

        22       Mr. President.  May we at this time take up

        23       the Resolution Calendar in its entirety, with

        24       the exception of Resolution 2980, Resolution



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         1       2986, Resolution 2987, and Resolution 3068.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    All

         3       those in favor of adopting the Resolution

         4       Calendar in its entirety, with the exception

         5       of Resolutions 2980, 2986, 2987, and 3068,

         6       please signify by saying aye.

         7                  (Response of "Aye.")

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         9       Opposed, nay.

        10                  (No response.)

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        12       Resolution Calendar is adopted in its

        13       entirety, with the exception of Resolutions

        14       2980, 2986, 2987 and 3068.

        15                  Senator Smith.

        16                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes,

        17       Mr. President.  Could you please recognize

        18       Senator Aubertine for a brief statement

        19       concerning several resolutions that he has on

        20       the calendar.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        22       Senator Aubertine.

        23                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Thank you,

        24       Mr. President.



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         1                  Before you, you have a series of

         2       resolutions, resolutions very appropriate in

         3       light of the fact that, as Senator Sampson

         4       pointed out earlier, as other Senators have

         5       pointed out, we are here on the 10th of

         6       September, the eve of 9/11.

         7                  In these resolutions are a series

         8       of resolutions recognizing a group of young

         9       soldiers who were killed in the past month in

        10       the uptick in fighting in Afghanistan.  And

        11       I'd like to read their names into the record,

        12       those soldiers:  Army Sergeant Jerry Evans;

        13       Specialist Andrew J. Roughton; Army Specialist

        14       Matthew Swanson; Specialist Anthony M.

        15       Lightfoot; Sergeant Gregory Owens Jr.;

        16       Specialist Justin D. Coleman; Private First

        17       Class Dennis Pratt; and Rosemary S. Nesbitt.

        18                  These people have given their all,

        19       Mr. President.  And I think that, you know, on

        20       the eve of 9/11 that if again we pause just

        21       for a moment of reflection to understand that

        22       the war that started over eight years ago in

        23       literally our backyard continues today and a

        24       lot of young Americans are still paying the



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         1       price.

         2                  So with that, Mr. President, I

         3       would ask for another moment of silence for

         4       these individuals.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Please

         6       rise for a moment of silence.

         7                  (Whereupon, the assemblage

         8       respected a moment of silence.)

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        10       you, Senator Aubertine.

        11                  Senator Smith.

        12                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes, Mr.

        13       President.  Can we please take up Resolution

        14       Number 2986, and we'd like it to be read in

        15       its entirety and move for immediate adoption.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        17       Secretary will read.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

        19       Perkins, Legislative Resolution Number 2986,

        20       mourning the death of United States Senator

        21       Edward Moore Kennedy, the third

        22       longest-serving member of the United States

        23       Senate in American history.

        24                  "WHEREAS, In this time of national



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         1       mourning, this Legislative Body, representing

         2       the people of the State of New York, is moved

         3       this day to honor the life and the service of

         4       United States Senator Edward Moore Kennedy, a

         5       man of unquestioned character, integrity, and

         6       true defender of the American dream, who had a

         7       profound and lasting impact upon our nation;

         8       and

         9                  "WHEREAS, On Tuesday, August 25,

        10       2009, Edward (Ted) Kennedy died at his home in

        11       Hyannisport, Massachusetts, at the age of 77;

        12       and

        13                  "WHEREAS, The heartfelt condolences

        14       of this Legislative Body are offered with

        15       sympathy and respect to the family of Senator

        16       Ted Kennedy, his wife, Vicki, and his five

        17       children:  Kara, Edward Jr., Patrick, Curran,

        18       and Caroline; and

        19                  "WHEREAS, Known as the 'Liberal

        20       Lion' of the U.S. Senate, Ted Kennedy was

        21       known as a champion for equal justice for

        22       every American, but especially for those who

        23       were left out and left behind.  He was

        24       instrumental for his contributions to the



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         1       causes of voting and civil rights; and

         2                  "WHEREAS, Born in Boston,

         3       Massachusetts, Ted Kennedy resided in

         4       Bronxville, New York, as a child when his

         5       parents purchased the Crownlands Estate in the

         6       late 1920s.  He lived there until the age of

         7       five; and

         8                  "WHEREAS, A graduate of Harvard

         9       University, Ted Kennedy was the senior right

        10       end for the school's football team in 1955.

        11       His athletic ability on the football field

        12       caught the attention of Green Bay Packer Head

        13       Coach Lisle Blackbourn, and he was highly

        14       recommended by a number of coaches and talent

        15       scouts as a possible pro prospect, but Ted

        16       Kennedy declined in order to attend law school

        17       at the University of Virginia, and soon

        18       thereafter launched his political career; and

        19                  "WHEREAS, Ted Kennedy and Virginia

        20       Joan Bennett were married by Francis Cardinal

        21       Spellman on November 29, 1958, at St. Joseph's

        22       Church in Bronxville, New York; and

        23                  "WHEREAS, With the tragic loss of

        24       his beloved older brothers, John in 1963 and



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         1       Robert in 1968, Ted Kennedy was thrust to the

         2       forefront of an immensely powerful political

         3       family; and

         4                  "WHEREAS, During his eight terms in

         5       the U.S. Senate representing Massachusetts,

         6       Ted Kennedy rose to become one of the

         7       Democratic Party's most powerful and eloquent

         8       legislators.  He was praised for his

         9       unyieldingly liberal positions on various

        10       issues; and

        11                  "WHEREAS, For five decades,

        12       virtually every major piece of legislation to

        13       advance the civil rights, health and economic

        14       well-being of the American people bore Ted

        15       Kennedy's name and resulted from his efforts.

        16       He fought for and won so many great battles

        17       for voting rights, education, immigration

        18       reform, minimum wage, national service, and

        19       the nation's first major legislation to combat

        20       AIDS.  In addition, he sought equality for

        21       minorities, women, the disabled, and gay

        22       Americans; and

        23                  "WHEREAS, Senator Ted Kennedy

        24       succeeded in bringing quality and affordable



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         1       healthcare for countless Americans, including

         2       children, seniors and Americans with

         3       disabilities.  He stood for human rights

         4       abroad, from Chile to the former Soviet Union,

         5       and was a leader in the cause of poverty

         6       relief for the poorest nations of Africa and

         7       throughout the world; and

         8                  "WHEREAS, A believer in a strong

         9       national defense, Ted Kennedy unceasingly

        10       pursued and advanced the work of nuclear arms

        11       control.  He was the conscience of the

        12       Democratic Party and also the Senate's

        13       greatest master of forging compromise with the

        14       Republican Party.  He was widely respected on

        15       both sides of the aisle for his commitment to

        16       progress and his ability to legislate; and

        17                  "WHEREAS, Senator Ted Kennedy was

        18       chairman of the Senate Health, Education,

        19       Labor and Pensions Committee.  Previously, he

        20       was chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee

        21       and served on that committee for many years;

        22       and

        23                  "WHEREAS, In addition, Senator Ted

        24       Kennedy served on the Senate Armed Services



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         1       Committee and the Congressional Joint Economic

         2       Committee.  He was a leader of the

         3       Congressional Friends of Ireland and helped

         4       lead the way toward peace on that island; and

         5                  "WHEREAS, Senator Ted Kennedy's

         6       support of Barack Obama as the Democratic

         7       nominee for President was seen as a key factor

         8       in determining President Obama's election as

         9       the nation's first African-American to serve

        10       in the White House; now, therefore, be it

        11                  "RESOLVED, That this Legislative

        12       Body pause in its deliberations to mourn the

        13       death of United States Senator Edward Moore

        14       Kennedy, the third longest-serving member of

        15       the United States Senate in American history;

        16       and be it further

        17                  "RESOLVED, That a copy of this

        18       resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

        19       to the family of Senator Edward Moore

        20       Kennedy."

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        22       Senator Perkins.

        23                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Thank you very

        24       much, Mr. President.



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         1                  And I just wanted to take a moment

         2       to obviously encourage my colleagues to

         3       support this resolution.

         4                  You know, my colleague Senator

         5       Klein thought it was my support that made the

         6       difference in the election of Barack Obama, he

         7       was jokingly saying.

         8                  But this is a very, very

         9       significant thing that he has done, and it's

        10       interesting how timely it is that just

        11       yesterday a great speech was made by our

        12       president, and in reference he made note of

        13       the work that Senator Kennedy has done for so

        14       many years while he in the Senate.

        15                  I have a very personal experience,

        16       in that in 1980 I had the privilege of being a

        17       Kennedy delegate to the Democratic Convention

        18       when he was a candidate for the United States

        19       presidency.  It took place, Senator Diane

        20       Savino, at Madison Square Garden, and it was

        21       an extraordinary experience.  And I was able

        22       to be such a delegate because of the fact that

        23       the party had just initiated this requirement

        24       that a certain number of delegates had to be



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         1       under 30.  So you can see that was just a few

         2       years ago.

         3                  (Laughter.)

         4                  SENATOR PERKINS:    But in any

         5       case, from a personal point of view as well as

         6       from what he has been able to contribute to

         7       our nation and really to the world in so many

         8       ways, I'm honored to have the opportunity to

         9       have known him personally to some extent and

        10       for us to be able to recognize his

        11       accomplishments today.

        12                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        14       you, Senator Perkins.

        15                  Are there any other Senators

        16       wishing to be heard?

        17                  The question then is on the

        18       resolution.  All those in favor please signify

        19       by saying aye.

        20                  (Response of "Aye.")

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        22       Opposed, nay.

        23                  (No response.)

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The



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         1       resolution is adopted.

         2                  At the request of the sponsor, the

         3       resolution is open for multisponsorship by the

         4       entire house.  Any member not wishing to be a

         5       cosponsor please notify the desk.

         6                  The Secretary will continue to

         7       read.

         8                  SENATOR SMITH:    Mr. President.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        10       Senator Smith.

        11                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes, would you

        12       please take up Resolution Number 2987.  I also

        13       ask that this resolution be read in its

        14       entirety and move for immediate adoption.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        16       Secretary will read.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

        18       Perkins, Legislative Resolution Number 2987,

        19       commemorating the 46th Anniversary of the

        20       March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom.

        21                  "WHEREAS, In the course of history,

        22       certain events have exemplified the power of

        23       the human spirit to overcome oppression, today

        24       we must remember such events and pay tribute



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         1       to the people involved who fought for the

         2       cause of freedom; and

         3                  "WHEREAS, Attendant to such

         4       concern, and in full accord with its

         5       long-standing traditions, this Legislative

         6       Body is justly proud to commemorate the

         7       46th Anniversary of the March on Washington

         8       for Jobs and Freedom; and

         9                  "WHEREAS, The March on Washington

        10       for Jobs and Freedom took place in Washington,

        11       D.C., on August 28, 1963.  Attended by some

        12       250,000 people, it was the largest

        13       demonstration ever seen in the nation's

        14       capital, and one of the first to have

        15       extensive television coverage; and

        16                  "WHEREAS, The year 1963 was noted

        17       for racial unrest and civil rights

        18       demonstrations.  Nationwide outrage was

        19       sparked by media coverage of police actions in

        20       Birmingham, Alabama, where attack dogs and

        21       firehoses were turned against protestors, many

        22       of whom were in their early teens or younger.

        23       Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., was arrested and

        24       jailed during these protests, writing his



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         1       famous 'Letter from Birmingham City Jail,'

         2       which advocates civil disobedience against

         3       unjust laws; and

         4                  "WHEREAS, Dozens of additional

         5       demonstrations took place across the country,

         6       from California to New York, culminating in

         7       the March on Washington.  President John

         8       Kennedy backed a Civil Rights Act which was

         9       stalled in Congress by the summer; and

        10                  "WHEREAS, The March on Washington

        11       represented a coalition of several civil

        12       rights organizations, all of which generally

        13       had different approaches and different

        14       agendas.  The 'Big Six' organizers were James

        15       Farmer, of the Congress of Racial Equality

        16       (CORE); Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., of the

        17       Southern Christian Leadership Conference

        18       (SCLC); John Lewis, of the Student Nonviolent

        19       Coordinating Committee (SNCC); A. Philip

        20       Randolph, of the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car

        21       Porters; Roy Wilkins, of the National

        22       Association for the Advancement of Colored

        23       People (NAACP); and Whitney Young, Jr., of the

        24       National Urban League; and



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         1                  "WHEREAS, The stated demands of the

         2       march were the passage of meaningful civil

         3       rights legislation, the elimination of racial

         4       segregation in public schools, protection for

         5       demonstrators against police brutality, a

         6       major public-works program to provide jobs,

         7       the passage of a law prohibiting racial

         8       discrimination in public and private hiring, a

         9       $2-an-hour minimum wage, and self-government

        10       for the District of Columbia, which had a

        11       black majority; and

        12                  "WHEREAS, The event included

        13       musical performances by Marian Anderson, Joan

        14       Baez, Bob Dylan, Mahalia Jackson, Peter, Paul

        15       and Mary, and Josh White.  Charlton Heston

        16       represented a contingent of artists including

        17       Harry Belafonte, Marlon Brando, Diahann

        18       Carroll, Ossie Davis, Sammy Davis Jr., Lena

        19       Horne, Paul Newman, and Sidney Poitier; and

        20                  "WHEREAS, Although monumental, it

        21       was at the March on Washington for Jobs and

        22       Freedom that Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.,

        23       delivered his historic 'I Have a Dream' speech

        24       advocating racial harmony at the Lincoln



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         1       Memorial during the event.  This particular

         2       march was an important part of the rapidly

         3       expanding civil rights movement and is widely

         4       credited for helping to pass the Civil Rights

         5       Act (1964) and the National Voting Rights Act

         6       (1965); and

         7                  "WHEREAS, Events expressing the

         8       bravery, willingness and sacrifice for the

         9       well-being of future generations are deserving

        10       of the highest honor by all defenders of

        11       freedom and democracy, now, therefore, be it

        12                  "RESOLVED, That this Legislative

        13       Body pause in its deliberations to commemorate

        14       the 46th Anniversary of the March on

        15       Washington for Jobs and Freedom."

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        17       Senator Perkins.

        18                  SENATOR PERKINS:    You know, we

        19       can never acknowledge too often the fact that

        20       the greatness of this society is represented

        21       often in these moments such as the March on

        22       Washington that opened up so many doors of

        23       opportunity and helped our democracy become

        24       even more world-acknowledged and appreciated



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         1       because of the principles and the values that

         2       we stand for.

         3                  And as I look around the room, I

         4       realize but for this march, a good number of

         5       us would not be here.

         6                  So I appreciate the fact that we

         7       have the opportunity to bring this forward as

         8       a resolution and that the body hopefully will

         9       accept it.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        11       you, Senator Perkins.

        12                  Are there any other Senators

        13       wishing to be heard?

        14                  The question then is on the

        15       resolution.  All those in favor please signify

        16       by saying aye.

        17                  (Response of "Aye.")

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        19       Opposed, nay.

        20                  (No response.)

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        22       resolution is adopted.

        23                  At the request of the sponsor, the

        24       resolution is open to multisponsorship.  Any



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         1       Senator not wishing to be part of that

         2       resolution please notify the desk.

         3                  Senator Smith.

         4                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes,

         5       Mr. President.  Thank you.  Would you please

         6       take up Resolution Number 3068.  And we ask

         7       that you read the title and that we move for

         8       immediate adoption.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        10       Secretary will read.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

        12       Perkins, Legislative Resolution Number 3068,

        13       celebrating the 100th birthday of the late

        14       Kwame Nkrumah, and paying tribute to his many

        15       contributions to Pan-Africanism, on Monday,

        16       September 21, 2009.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        18       Senator Perkins.

        19                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Thank you for

        20       the opportunity again to present a resolution

        21       of what I consider importance to me and to all

        22       of us, actually.

        23                  And I realize that there are some

        24       members in this chamber who have never heard



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         1       of Kwame Nkrumah.  Kwame Nkrumah, who was a

         2       leading advocate for Pan-Africanism in the

         3       20th century, was born on September 21, 1909,

         4       in the Gold Coast, or what is now known as

         5       Ghana.  In 1935 he left Ghana and moved to the

         6       United States to further his education, both

         7       institutionally and socially.

         8                  During the time that Kwame Nkrumah

         9       spent in the United States, he preached at

        10       black Presbyterian churches in Philadelphia

        11       and in New York City.  In fact, while in

        12       New York City, he resided in my district, in

        13       Harlem.  And one of the reasons why Harlem has

        14       become so famous internationally and sometimes

        15       is called the mecca or the capital of black

        16       culture is because folks like Kwame Nkrumah

        17       who were fighting colonialism in Africa often

        18       came into New York City and stayed in Harlem

        19       to get the kind of support, intellectually and

        20       otherwise, to go back home and bring about the

        21       kind of democracy that we take for granted to

        22       their nation.

        23                  And so he eventually left the

        24       United States and traveled the world



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         1       establishing Pan African organizations such as

         2       the Fifth African Congress in Manchester,

         3       England, in 1945.  Kwame received numerous

         4       honorary degrees -- from Lincoln University,

         5       Moscow State University, Cairo University, and

         6       numerous other universities -- for his leading

         7       role in advocating Pan-Africanism.

         8                  Kwame Nkrumah also played an

         9       essential role in African pride by becoming

        10       the president of the African Students

        11       Organization of America and Canada and vice

        12       president of the West African Students Union.

        13                  His Pan-Africanism work eventually

        14       landed him in jail in 1950, but he was

        15       released in 1951 by the Convention People's

        16       Party, the party that had just won the

        17       election in Ghana and which he had founded in

        18       1949 to liberate the Gold Coast from colonial

        19       rule.

        20                  Kwame Nkrumah's rigorous pursuit of

        21       Pan-Africanism helped his tireless fight for

        22       the independence of Ghana and led him to

        23       become its president in 1957.

        24                  Kwame Nkrumah was overthrown in



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         1       1966 by the military and he was exiled to

         2       Bucharest, Romania, where he died on April 27,

         3       1972.  Yet many people still hold on to his

         4       dream that there will be one day a United

         5       States of Africa.  The legacy of Kwame Nkrumah

         6       continues to serve as an inspiration for many

         7       people in the African-American communities all

         8       across this state and this country.

         9                  It is therefore a great honor and

        10       pleasure to present this resolution to the

        11       chamber for its adoption.  Thank you so much.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        13       you, Senator Perkins.

        14                  Are there any other Senators

        15       wishing to be heard?

        16                  Senator Parker.

        17                  SENATOR PARKER:    Thank you,

        18       Mr. President.

        19                  I just wanted to echo the words by

        20       Senator Perkins about how important Kwame

        21       Nkrumah has been both for this country and

        22       particularly African-Americans in it.

        23                  And I don't know if Senator Perkins

        24       was aware of this.  You know, as a professor,



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         1       I know -- I'm teaching at the University of

         2       Albany in the Black Studies Department this

         3       year.  And although Kwame Nkrumah spent his

         4       time living in Harlem, he actually was on

         5       record as saying Brooklyn was actually his

         6       favorite part of the city.

         7                  (Laughter.)

         8                  SENATOR PARKER:    But, you know,

         9       the short amount of time that you heard

        10       Senator Perkins talk about the importance of

        11       Kwame Nkrumah only is really the tip of the

        12       iceberg of what this man has meant not just to

        13       his own country -- because, you know, people

        14       don't realize that Ghana was actually the

        15       first African nation to free itself from

        16       dominance, and that really actually created a

        17       domino effect of other African nations

        18       breaking away from the old political colonial

        19       system that they were in, which then also led

        20       to a revolution actually in the Caribbean as

        21       well.

        22                  And that in fact had a great deal

        23       of impact on what we actually see in my

        24       district and many districts really across the



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         1       State of New York, with the numbers of the

         2       Caribbean immigrants who have become part of

         3       the American fabric.

         4                  And so many of those ideals and

         5       many of the things that we think of as part of

         6       the -- particularly part of the immigrant

         7       experience have been formed by people like

         8       Dr. Kwame Nkrumah.  And so I wanted to

         9       remember him and just talk about how important

        10       he was.  And this idea of Pan-Africanism has

        11       become a unifying force in terms of the way

        12       African politics has been played out but also

        13       African-American politics.

        14                  In fact, when you see someone like

        15       Barack Obama, he is in fact a direct

        16       descendant of the ideological-political

        17       understanding of how we should operate and how

        18       he then, you know, gets to become an

        19       instrument of Pan-African hopes and dreams of

        20       not just people here in the United States but

        21       people in the continent and in the Caribbean.

        22                  And so thank you, Senator Perkins,

        23       for remembering this important day, and thank

        24       you all for becoming part of this remembrance.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         2       you, Senator Parker.

         3                  Senator Montgomery.

         4                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Thank you,

         5       Mr. President.

         6                  I just rise to thank my colleague

         7       Senator Perkins for this resolution.

         8                  Kwame Nkrumah is a huge hero for

         9       those of us who are African in America as well

        10       as the people in Africa.  And we should not

        11       forget nor should we allow the significance of

        12       his presence and his life and his activity to

        13       be forgotten and lost as it relates to the

        14       history of the U.S. as well as the history of

        15       Africa.

        16                  And so I'm very happy that you've

        17       introduced this resolution, Senator.  And I

        18       hope that we can think of other ways that we

        19       as a body that has a lot to say and do about

        20       what children are eventually learning in the

        21       education system in our state -- that we can

        22       promote more people like Kwame Nkrumah, who

        23       has played such a large role and is so

        24       important to them as it relates to their



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         1       history, who they are and where they have come

         2       from and who are the heroes that they should

         3       be understanding and looking to as their

         4       leaders.

         5                  And so this is important, and I

         6       hope we can work together on framing other

         7       kinds of activities where Kwame Nkrumah can be

         8       held up to young people in this state.

         9                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        11       you, Senator Montgomery.

        12                  Are there any other Senators

        13       wishing to be heard?

        14                  The question is on the resolution.

        15       All those in favor please signify by saying

        16       aye.

        17                  (Response of "Aye.")

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        19       Opposed, nay.

        20                  (No response.)

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        22       resolution is adopted.

        23                  At the request of the sponsor, the

        24       resolution is open for multisponsorship by the



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         1       entire house.  Any member wishing not to be a

         2       multisponsor please notify the desk.

         3                  Senator Smith.

         4                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes,

         5       Mr. President, thank you.  I would ask at this

         6       time that we take up Resolution 2980.  I ask

         7       that the title be read and we move for its

         8       immediate adoption.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        10       Secretary will read.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

        12       Larkin, Legislative Resolution Number 2980,

        13       commending West Point, the United States

        14       Military Academy, upon the occasion of being

        15       ranked the top college in the country by

        16       Forbes Magazine.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        18       Senator Larkin.

        19                  SENATOR LARKIN:    Thank you,

        20       Mr. President.

        21                  You know, it's a real honor, my

        22       colleagues, to stand here and commend the

        23       United States Military Academy, which was just

        24       honored by Forbes as the number-one college in



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         1       the United States of America.

         2                  We're talking about a college that

         3       is very selective.  We're talking about a

         4       college that's curriculum is second to none.

         5       We're talking about a college that's preparing

         6       young men and women to be members of the armed

         7       forces in combat arms or serve as reserve

         8       units.  We're also teaching them so that

         9       they'll be knowledgeable about when they

        10       decide to retire or go into some government or

        11       business.

        12                  But when you realize that the Class

        13       of 2009 that graduated May 23rd of this year,

        14       the average grade of the graduates was

        15       something like 3.8 -- Rhodes scholars, various

        16       colleges across the world accepted cadets

        17       because of their outstanding skills, academic

        18       skills and everything else.

        19                  I think we should be honored here

        20       at Albany when we think that this college is

        21       in New York State.  It is the 207th

        22       anniversary of the United States Military

        23       Academy.  And, ladies and gentlemen, I ask you

        24       to join me in honoring the academy.  And I



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         1       know that our good friend the president,

         2       presiding officer, will sure want a copy for

         3       his brother, a distinguished graduate of the

         4       Class of 1962.

         5                  Thank you Mr. President.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         7       you, Senator Larkin.

         8                  Are there any other Senators

         9       wishing to be heard on the resolution?

        10                  The question is then on the

        11       resolution.  All those in favor please signify

        12       by saying aye.

        13                  (Response of "Aye.")

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        15       Opposed, nay.

        16                  (No response.)

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        18       resolution is adopted.

        19                  At the request of the sponsor, the

        20       resolution is open to the entire Senate.  Any

        21       Senator not wishing to be on the resolution

        22       please notify the desk accordingly.

        23                  Returning to the reports of

        24       standing committees.  Senator Smith.



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         1                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes,

         2       Mr. President, I believe there's a report of

         3       the Finance Committee at the desk.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         5       Senator Smith, there is a report of the

         6       Finance Committee at the desk.

         7                  The Secretary will read.

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Kruger,

         9       from the Committee on Finance, reports the

        10       following nominations.

        11                  As chairman and chief executive

        12       officer of the Metropolitan Transportation

        13       Authority, Jay Herbert Walder, of London,

        14       England.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        16       Senator Kruger.

        17                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Mr.

        18       President, please move the nomination.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Are

        20       there any Senators that wish to be heard on

        21       the motion to confirm the nomination?

        22                  Senator Marcellino.

        23                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,

        24       Mr. President.  I rise to speak on this



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         1       nominee.

         2                  I have attended hearings on Long

         3       Island and the Finance Committee meeting this

         4       afternoon -- actually, this morning, which

         5       turned into this afternoon -- up here in

         6       Albany.  There is no doubt in my mind of the

         7       qualifications of Mr. Walder.  He is a

         8       world-class nominee, there is no doubt about

         9       it.

        10                  However, in our discussions and in

        11       the hearings, we don't get much information.

        12       We don't get many specific answers to

        13       questions.  I find that troubling.

        14                  I also find it troubling that when

        15       I asked the question about the payroll tax at

        16       one of the hearings on Long Island, the answer

        17       was -- when I say asked the question, about

        18       would you be willing to look at ways to roll

        19       that tax back, the answer was no.  No, I need

        20       the money.  No, the MTA needs the money.  We

        21       have to move forward.

        22                  The payroll tax is a destroyer.  It

        23       is a killer of business, it is a killer of

        24       jobs.  It will result and has already resulted



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         1       in an increase in property taxes because

         2       everybody, every entity has to pay that tax,

         3       municipalities included.  Villages, counties,

         4       towns all have to pay that tax.  They're going

         5       to get it by raising property taxes on their

         6       residents, that's the only way they can do it.

         7                  Jobs will be lost because many

         8       businesses, rather than raise costs of the

         9       services they perform or the goods they sell,

        10       will lay people off in order to make up the

        11       difference that they have to have in paying

        12       nor this tax.

        13                  I know what the tax is supposed to

        14       pay for.  I know what it's supposed to do.

        15       What I am saying is to Mr. Walder -- and I

        16       know he's hearing me, and I know he listens.

        17       But I'm asking him to hear it again and to

        18       listen extra hard, because my constituents are

        19       screaming that they can no longer handle

        20       increased taxes.  They can no longer handle

        21       increased costs to go to work.

        22                  People who have to ride in my area

        23       the Long Island Railroad, it costs them $4,000

        24       a year just to go to work.  That's a huge



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         1       expenditure before you take into consideration

         2       all the other costs to live.  That takes a

         3       huge bite out of them.  It is no wonder that

         4       as a result they choose to drive their cars,

         5       which is just where we don't want them.

         6                  We don't want them in their cars.

         7       We want them out of their cars.  We want them

         8       in the mass transit system.  But the mass

         9       transit system is pricing them out.  It is

        10       costing them out.  It is saying we don't want

        11       you here, only the elite can travel on the

        12       Long Island Railroad because they're the only

        13       ones who can afford it.  Everybody else has

        14       got to find some other way to get to work.

        15                  So if you get on the Long Island

        16       Railroad, the Southern State Parkway, the

        17       Northern State Parkway or any of the other

        18       main roads on Long Island, going into the city

        19       or wherever, you'll find them parking lots at

        20       the rush hours, either going to work or coming

        21       back, people in their cars.  And if you look

        22       at it, there's usually only one person per

        23       car.

        24                  These people should be on the



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         1       railroads.  They should be able to ride the

         2       Long Island Railroad and not spend $4,000 a

         3       year to go to work.  That's just

         4       unconscionable.  And it's not sustainable.

         5       Because the fares went up recently after the

         6       payroll tax and will go up again, nobody has

         7       any doubt of that.  They're going to go up

         8       again.  The tolls on the bridges are going to

         9       go up again.  They just went up also.

        10                  We can't just keep on doing that.

        11       Salaries are not increasing at the same rate

        12       that the fares are increasing.  They're just

        13       not cutting it.  The service has got to be

        14       improved.  It doesn't cut it either.  From

        15       escalators that don't work, from elevators

        16       that you can't go into because they stink of

        17       urine, from train platforms that are covered

        18       by bird excrement and other things, that are

        19       all in disrepair, from lack of parking

        20       facilities for cars that bring people to the

        21       railroad.  A whole host of situations that the

        22       MTA is not addressing.

        23                  The lack of electrification of the

        24       line from one end of Long Island to the other,



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         1       something that's been talked about for 25, 30

         2       years, it still isn't done.  It would save a

         3       fortune.  It would save the use of fossil

         4       fuels on the diesel engines that have to be

         5       used to go out to the east end.  It would make

         6       it more environmentally safe and more

         7       environmentally protective.  Instead, the MTA

         8       keeps plodding along doing the same old, same

         9       old.

        10                  We can't have that anymore.  We

        11       can't have a tax-and-spend mentality to keep

        12       on going:  It's okay, we'll just tax them some

        13       more.  It's okay, they've got no other choice.

        14       Well, they do -- they're in their cars.  And

        15       we don't want them there.  I want them on the

        16       buses, which on Long Island for the most part

        17       don't exist.  There's no route, there is no

        18       schedule that means anything.  This is just

        19       plain wrong.

        20                  So, Mr. Walder, your job is cut out

        21       for you.  I have no doubt you'll be confirmed

        22       today.  Your job is cut out for you.  I'm more

        23       than willing to work.  I don't hold this as

        24       your responsibility, you didn't create the



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         1       problem.  But we look to you for the solution.

         2                  For my constituents, I am going to

         3       vote no.  But I do hope -- and I offer my hand

         4       that I will work with you and I will be

         5       supportive in every way I can.  But I fully

         6       expect and I fully require that you understand

         7       the problems that my constituents face, that

         8       all of the people who live in the downstate

         9       region in the 12 counties of the MTA region

        10       face.  The service is not up to par.  The cost

        11       is too much -- not just the fares, but the

        12       taxes that we pay, that my constituents have

        13       to pay to support the service.  They're not

        14       just not getting the bang for their buck.

        15                  For that reason, I'm going to vote

        16       no on this confirmation.  Thank you,

        17       Mr. Chairman.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        19       you, Senator Marcellino.

        20                  Senator Smith.

        21                  SENATOR SMITH:    Thank you very

        22       much, Mr. President.

        23                  And let me congratulate the

        24       Governor on what I think is a fine selection



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         1       for someone to run the largest metropolitan

         2       system in the country, one that is clearly

         3       faced with challenges, one that moves millions

         4       of people every day and has the responsibility

         5       for making sure that not only do people get

         6       back and forth to work but that they also

         7       continue to move the great City of New York

         8       that so many of us rely on from a

         9       commerce/financial standpoint.

        10                  Jay Walder, who was the managing

        11       director at Transport for London -- he also

        12       lectured on public policy at Harvard

        13       University and worked for Metropolitan

        14       Transportation Authority -- comes with a

        15       breadth of experience.  He provides a breath

        16       of fresh air to an institution and an

        17       organization that will need a lot of help.

        18                  There is no question that he is

        19       going to meet challenges, challenges by which

        20       this body here had to vote on an MTA bailout

        21       plan, if you will, last year.  It took us

        22       quite some time.  We still have in front of us

        23       a capital plan that he has to shepherd that

        24       will deal with not only New York City but



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         1       roads and bridges for Long Island and upstate.

         2                  But, Jay, you should know that you

         3       have a partner in the Senate.  We are looking

         4       forward to working with you.  Because if you

         5       are successful, we are successful.  If you are

         6       successful, the commerce of this city and the

         7       state runs well.  So we want you to succeed,

         8       and we are going to be your partner.

         9                  I want to thank my colleagues in

        10       the Senate, in particular Senator Perkins;

        11       Senator Dilan, who I know spent quite a bit of

        12       time talking to Mr. Walder, making him

        13       understand what the needs are; our Finance

        14       chair Senator, Carl Kruger, who is not an easy

        15       person to convince, but once he's convinced,

        16       you got a good ally once he's on your team.

        17                  So it's my great pleasure,

        18       Mr. President, that I stand again to

        19       congratulate the Governor on this selection

        20       and also to congratulate Mr. Walder and his

        21       family.  We welcome you and look forward to

        22       you being successful.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        24       you, Senator Smith.



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         1                  Senator Morahan.

         2                  SENATOR MORAHAN:    Thank you,

         3       Mr. President.

         4                  I'm going to vote yes on this

         5       appointment.  I think it's time for a fresh

         6       start for the MTA.  But I would give a

         7       challenge to Mr. Walder in his new role.

         8                  Mr. Walder, over the past several

         9       years the MTA has suffered a crisis in

        10       credibility.  I think it's important for you

        11       and the MTA to reestablish that credibility in

        12       the minds of this Senate, of the Assembly, of

        13       our Governor, and most importantly the people

        14       of the State of New York, particularly those

        15       who live in the MTA region.

        16                  Numbers change overnight; it's

        17       always a shifting target.  And I think it's

        18       almost a disaster for any agency to lose its

        19       credibility, because once that happens we

        20       don't know what to believe, who to believe, or

        21       should we believe anything at all.

        22                  When we had a conversation, I asked

        23       you to press forward with the forensic audit

        24       so we would know once and for all where we



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         1       stand, how we got here and how we will get out

         2       of whatever mess we have.

         3                  I represent the County of Rockland

         4       and a portion of Orange County.  Both those

         5       counties are shorted on services to the tune

         6       of almost $85 million in excess of what we put

         7       into that system through mortgage tax, sales

         8       tax, the fare box, and other revenues.  All

         9       the other 10 counties in the MTA enjoy at

        10       least a surplus in service or break even at

        11       least.

        12                  Only Rockland and only Orange,

        13       those two counties in the mid-Hudson region,

        14       have such a shortfall in service.  So much so

        15       that the County of Rockland has passed a

        16       resolution, its legislature, to withdraw from

        17       the MTA.  And for the first time, Orange

        18       County has joined that cry.  And for the first

        19       time, the resolutions have been signed by the

        20       county executives.

        21                  Now, no one looks forward,

        22       especially me, for the County of Rockland to

        23       run a railroad, or the County of Orange,

        24       through its legislature.  But something must



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         1       be done to bring into balance what Rockland

         2       and Orange County are putting into the MTA

         3       coffers when you compare it to the service.

         4                  And to add injury to an already

         5       unpleasant situation, in the last bailout, if

         6       you will, we added a payroll tax on all the

         7       businesses within our two counties and other

         8       counties as well.  But now that falls on our

         9       governments, which have to pass that along to

        10       our taxpayers through property tax, to our

        11       school districts that will have pass that tax

        12       on to the taxpayer through its property tax.

        13       It's harmful to small business, which is

        14       really the backbone of the economy in Orange

        15       and Rockland counties.

        16                  On top of that, the few commuters

        17       that we have who go to New York City were

        18       threatened last year with a congestion tax by

        19       the City of New York.  To add to that, those

        20       employers that are going to be paying that

        21       payroll tax have far too few, if any,

        22       traveling to their place of business by the

        23       MTA service.

        24                  So you have a great challenge.



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         1       From your resume and from our interview, I

         2       believe you have great talent.  But it's going

         3       take great strength, political courage to get

         4       through to the basic problems facing the MTA,

         5       courage not normally found in a public

         6       authority.

         7                  So I would hope, Mr. Walder, and

         8       the reason I'm giving you my vote today on

         9       behalf of the people of Rockland and Orange

        10       counties, is because your resume indicates you

        11       have both.  And I believe you will be

        12       successful.  But let me say this.  If in our

        13       oversight here and my oversight as an

        14       individual Senator things don't seem to go the

        15       way they ought to go, you will hear from us.

        16       You will hear from us vigorously.  We will

        17       push the legislation to get our two counties

        18       out of this mess on behalf of the people that

        19       I represent.

        20                  So good luck.  I wish you all the

        21       best.  And I vote yes, Mr. President.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        23       you, Senator Morahan.

        24                  Senator Lanza.



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         1                  SENATOR LANZA:    Thank you,

         2       Mr. President.

         3                  I rise with regret to vote no on

         4       this nomination.  You know, I attended this

         5       morning's Transportation hearing with great

         6       interest, great expectations, because I agree

         7       with my colleagues with respect to the

         8       nominee's experience and credentials.  I have

         9       no question that Mr. Walder can do this job

        10       when you look at his resume.  I have too many

        11       unanswered questions with respect to how is he

        12       going to do that job.  And I'm very troubled

        13       with respect to what I experienced and we

        14       today experienced at that hearing.

        15                  You know, I've heard the

        16       frustration of so many of my colleagues in

        17       government, both in the City Council in

        18       New York City and here in the Senate, both

        19       Democrat and Republican, with respect to not

        20       getting the sort of open dialogue between the

        21       MTA and the people.

        22                  I heard, when this body passed that

        23       MTA bailout imposing $2.5 billion in new taxes

        24       and fees on the people in the MTA region, that



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         1       this time it was going to be different, that

         2       there was going to be accountability and that

         3       we were going to make sure that the MTA was

         4       going to be held accountable.

         5                  What I witnessed at the hearing

         6       does not give me a lot of confidence that that

         7       in fact is the case.  The MTA, like most

         8       authorities, doesn't want to answer questions.

         9       And we don't get too many answers.  But

        10       there's usually a honeymoon period that lasts

        11       at least through the Senate nomination

        12       committee.  We didn't have that even today.

        13                  I asked Mr. Walder, for instance,

        14       whether or not he would consider or propose

        15       tolling the East River crossings as a way to

        16       address the MTA's budget shortfalls.  He

        17       wouldn't say.  I asked him whether or not he

        18       thought congestion pricing was the way he

        19       would go with respect to solving the MTA

        20       budget shortfall.  He wouldn't say.  I asked

        21       him whether he thought it was fair that the

        22       Verrazano Bridge back on Staten Island has a

        23       toll and that the East River crossings

        24       doesn't, and he said that it wasn't really



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         1       about fairness.

         2                  In fact, Mr. Walder at this

         3       hearing -- our hearing today -- said that

         4       these specific issues should not be addressed

         5       today, this was not the time, this was not the

         6       place, that they should be addressed later.

         7       He said, in fact, that these probably weren't

         8       the discussions for the MTA.  I couldn't

         9       disagree more.

        10                  Each of you is about to vote on

        11       whether or not to give someone a job that pays

        12       $372,000 per year -- at a time when the state

        13       budget is in crisis, the MTA budget and

        14       institution is in crisis, the New York City

        15       budget is in crisis.  Is it too much to ask of

        16       the person you're about to hire what his plan

        17       is to address those problems?  I think not.

        18       In fact, I think we're entitled to them.  The

        19       riders in the region are entitled to those

        20       answers.  The taxpayers in the region and

        21       throughout the state are entitled to have

        22       those answers.  And I don't know why we had a

        23       hearing today and walked away without answers

        24       to those questions.



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         1                  You know, I asked Mr. Walder, given

         2       the public outrage with respect to

         3       compensation packages on Wall Street, whether

         4       or not, given these trying times, he'd be

         5       willing to take the job for less than the

         6       $372,000 per year.  And of course -- and I

         7       don't blame him -- he said no.

         8                  But at least, at least we should

         9       know what the plan is here before we vote.

        10       And what is of great disappointment to me is

        11       when I look at his resume and I look at his

        12       experience, I think -- of all the people out

        13       there -- he's someone that may have some of

        14       those answers and those solutions.  But for

        15       whatever reason -- maybe the MTA culture has

        16       already struck.  Maybe it was his experience

        17       back in the '80s.

        18                  And by the way, I asked Mr. Walder

        19       whether or not he'd ever been to Staten

        20       Island.  And he said that he was but he

        21       doesn't remember when or where.  And that

        22       might not upset many of you here in the

        23       chamber, but it bothers me.  It bothers me

        24       greatly.  Five hundred thousand people on



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         1       Staten Island, not an insignificant part of

         2       the MTA region.

         3                  And I see some heads shaking.  I'm

         4       not trying to be personal here, but you would

         5       think, as was said during the hearing, that

         6       when you come to a job interview for a job

         7       this important that you might want to kick the

         8       tires around, that you might want to take a

         9       look at the region and you might want to come

        10       prepared to answer these types of questions.

        11       I think we're entitled to know that.  And I'm

        12       greatly disappointed that we don't have the

        13       answers to these questions.

        14                  Again, the MTA is in crisis.  I

        15       don't expect that anyone would come to a

        16       hearing and have a magic answer or a magic

        17       bullet to solve all the problems that the MTA

        18       is confronted by.  But I do believe, I do

        19       believe that at least on day one, on day one

        20       you would be willing to answer questions in a

        21       way that demonstrated that you understand that

        22       you need to have a working partnership with

        23       this legislative body and the governor of the

        24       state and the taxpayers and the riders.



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         1                  And I've attended too many MTA

         2       hearings which were rightly described as dog

         3       and pony shows where folks looked at their

         4       watches and waited for the meetings to end and

         5       there was never any follow-up and there was

         6       never any answer.

         7                  And when I have someone who wants

         8       to be the chairman of that board who comes

         9       before this Senate, who asks for our vote to

        10       give him a job that pays $372,000 a year, I

        11       expect that he'd be willing to answer those

        12       questions in a forthright way.

        13                  So I don't think today is a good

        14       start.  Of course, I'm hopeful and optimistic

        15       that it will have a better ending.  But it

        16       just doesn't look good to me, and there are

        17       too many unanswered questions, and so I regret

        18       that I will be voting no.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        20       you, Senator Lanza.

        21                  Senator Libous.

        22                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you,

        23       Mr. President.

        24                  I rise to make some of the same



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         1       comments I made in committee today.  And I

         2       said to Mr. Walder in committee that I am very

         3       impressed with his resume.  I think probably

         4       the Governor made a very good choice.  He has

         5       all of the qualifications to run a very

         6       difficult agency, one that has been tried to

         7       be run by many others before who have had

         8       difficulty doing so.

         9                  But I also told him that I am going

        10       to vote against him, but it has nothing to do

        11       with you personally, and I mean that

        12       sincerely.  And I believe you'll get confirmed

        13       today, and I want to extend whatever help I

        14       can to you.

        15                  I am not going to support him

        16       because I want to send a broader message.

        17       There is more to transportation in this state

        18       than just the MTA.  And all this house has

        19       done is bail out the MTA, worry about the MTA,

        20       worry about the deficits of the MTA, worry

        21       about ridership of the MTA, sit here and wait

        22       for weeks to try to help the MTA.

        23                  I understand that the MTA is a

        24       vital transportation component to a certain



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         1       part of the state, and I have been very

         2       supportive, particularly as chairman of the

         3       Transportation Committee for years, for the

         4       MTA.  But as I stand on this floor and as I am

         5       an upstater, I have road and bridges.  I don't

         6       have an MTA where I live.

         7                  And we have no plan for roads and

         8       bridges.  We have no DOT commissioner.  We

         9       have an acting commissioner, one who has

        10       filled the spot after the commissioner left.

        11                  And my plea today is very simple to

        12       my colleagues, and certainly to my friend the

        13       Governor if he's listening, is that

        14       transportation in New York State is more than

        15       just the MTA.  The MTA has to work with the

        16       DOT.  If we don't have a commissioner,

        17       Mr. Walder is going to have a very difficult

        18       time getting things done with DOT.

        19                  We need to have a comprehensive

        20       capital plan, one that my friend Senator Dilan

        21       has said will be coming soon.  And, Senator, I

        22       look forward to working with you hand in hand,

        23       but on one that will work together for roads

        24       and bridges -- and not only upstate, but in



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         1       New York City, on Long Island, in the MTA

         2       region, because there are lots of roads and

         3       bridges in the MTA region.

         4                  So my opposition today is one that

         5       I hope sends a message to all of my colleagues

         6       to help you to understand -- and I don't

         7       profess to be an expert on transportation; I

         8       know a little bit about it.  And when you know

         9       a little bit about something, you can become

        10       dangerous.

        11                  I do know that for New York State

        12       to thrive economically and to come back and to

        13       restore jobs -- not only for upstate, but I

        14       know the city is having difficulty, and on

        15       Long Island -- that we have to have a complete

        16       and thorough transportation system.

        17                  So, Mr. President, today I am going

        18       cast a vote against Mr. Walder.  Again, I wish

        19       you well.  You have a daunting task ahead of

        20       you.  I look forward to working with you.  But

        21       I hope that my colleagues in this chamber and

        22       the Governor, if he's listening, understand

        23       that we have to address all of our

        24       transportation needs.



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         1                  Thank you, Mr. President.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         3       you, Senator Libous.

         4                  Senator Saland.

         5                  SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you,

         6       Mr. President.

         7                  I had the opportunity earlier today

         8       during the Finance Committee meeting to engage

         9       Mr. Walder.  At that time I rehashed some of

        10       the history with regard to what had brought us

        11       to this time and place, speaking certainly on

        12       behalf of the people whom I represent in

        13       Dutchess County, the county in which I live.

        14                  Several months ago we had the

        15       proposed Ravitch Commission report, and I had

        16       requested that we have a hearing in the

        17       Metro-North region, not necessarily in my

        18       county.  I had even suggested that perhaps in

        19       northern Westchester.  That request was

        20       ignored.

        21                  On August 12th of this summer, just

        22       a few short weeks ago, in anticipation of this

        23       day I again requested a hearing again in the

        24       Metro-North region.  Came to pass that there



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         1       were two hearings, one in Long Island, I

         2       believe in Mineola, and one in Manhattan, I

         3       believe.  Again, no hearing in the Metro-North

         4       region.

         5                  So if you think that people in the

         6       Metro-North region and the people in my county

         7       view themselves as the proverbial stepchildren

         8       or outcasts, I don't think it's without

         9       reason.  And if they view themselves as

        10       revenue hostages, they certainly have all good

        11       cause to believe so.

        12                  Notwithstanding the comments of my

        13       good friend and colleague Senator Morahan a

        14       bit earlier to the effect that -- and I am

        15       looking now -- all of the counties enjoy a

        16       surplus in service, the only way, the

        17       absolutely only way that it can be pretended

        18       that Dutchess County has a surplus in service

        19       is through godawful creative accounting,

        20       creative bookkeeping or, as some might want to

        21       say, cooking the books.

        22                  The simple fact of the matter is is

        23       that the MTA treats each of its regions

        24       differently, assesses their benefit ratio



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         1       differently.  Metro-North is treated

         2       differently than the Long Island Railroad;

         3       each of those are treated differently than the

         4       city.  And the sole purpose of the creative

         5       accounting is to maximize the benefit ratio to

         6       make counties believe or enable Metro-North or

         7       MTA to pretend that those counties are

         8       deriving larger benefits than in fact they are

         9       deriving.

        10                  In my county, for example, we

        11       have -- this is MTA data.  There was a report

        12       commissioned by MTA in 2005, the Cambridge

        13       report.  It's been updated.  The data they

        14       used is MTA data.  They took pains, I guess,

        15       to make it be known that it was not

        16       independent data.

        17                  If you look at their data prior to

        18       the absolutely godawful imposition of the

        19       payroll tax and the driver's license fees and

        20       the registration fees, we were paying a hefty

        21       $68 million in taxes and fees for some 4,000

        22       commuters -- 9,000 fares, 4,000 commuters.  So

        23       a thousand or so more additional people use it

        24       perhaps recreationally.  Even if you want to



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         1       take number 10,000, if the data is dated.

         2       Four thousand commuters, $68 million.  That's

         3       pretty steep.

         4                  Well, take $17.5 million in payroll

         5       tax, add $8.76 million in driver's license

         6       fees and registrations for people who don't

         7       use the system -- keep in mind that 4,000 of

         8       the people who use the system are commuters,

         9       of a population in excess of 300,000; you're

        10       talking less than a percent and a half of the

        11       population of my county availing themselves of

        12       the system as commuters -- and we are now

        13       paying for this marvelous benefit somewhere in

        14       excess of $95 million.

        15                  Is there any one of you who could

        16       endure that pain?  Any one of you who would

        17       say "I volunteer, I want to be part of that

        18       system"?  In committee I said if I could put a

        19       gate across, or if this were the 1870s or

        20       1880s and I could invite vigilantes to come

        21       and rip up the track, I would do so.

        22                  My county is a revenue hostage.  It

        23       is abused.  If there was a central registry of

        24       abused counties, this state would be reported



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         1       and imprisoned for what it's doing and

         2       continues to do to my county.

         3                  During the course of the comments

         4       that were offered by the nominee -- who I

         5       apologized to in advance and told him my

         6       issues had nothing to do with him or his

         7       qualifications, but the fact that once again

         8       my county was being further abused as a

         9       revenue hostage -- he emphasized, and I went

        10       through this language with him to make sure

        11       that in fact I did not take my notes

        12       improperly, but he emphasized the following as

        13       being important:  Credibility, accountability,

        14       transparency.

        15                  And he went on to say, "The MTA

        16       must demonstrate good value and the bottom

        17       line is that taxpayers and the riding public

        18       have to see that they're getting their money's

        19       worth."

        20                  There is no way in hell that the

        21       taxpayers and commuters in my district are

        22       getting their money's worth.  There's no

        23       conceivable way that they can get their

        24       money's worth.  The only way they can get



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         1       their money's worth is if somehow or other,

         2       prior to this payroll tax money being used to

         3       secure the bonds that ultimately we will have

         4       to resort to to make up for the deficit in the

         5       MTA capital plan, that we do a rollback on

         6       that payroll tax.

         7                  It's not merely Dutchess County;

         8       all of the so-called "quarter-pounders" are

         9       being similarly afflicted.  And there's

        10       absolutely no equity, no justice.  Perhaps I

        11       should break into a rendition of "Let My

        12       People Go."

        13                  I vote in the negative.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        15       you, Senator Saland.

        16                  Senator Espada.

        17                  SENATOR ESPADA:    Thank you,

        18       Mr. President.

        19                  I rise to second this nomination.

        20       I don't disagree with what's been said -- and

        21       I'm a good listener -- with respect to the

        22       challenges.  But let me just focus on a couple

        23       of things briefly.

        24                  I am very happy that Mr. Walder's



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         1       address will change from London, England, back

         2       to New York.  So therefore, welcome, to a

         3       native son, welcome home.

         4                  The protracted debate that was had,

         5       both here and throughout the months, that

         6       focused on the MTA, that focused on service,

         7       on pricing, on accountability, on

         8       transparency, on restructuring, all of that,

         9       we debated that.  And it was difficult, and it

        10       will remain difficult and ongoing.

        11                  Thanks to my good friend Senator

        12       Carl Kruger, the Finance Committee did its job

        13       with vetting.  And I think most of us, a lot

        14       of us know good leadership when we see it.

        15                  The selection process in and of

        16       itself will obviously not cure or resolve any

        17       of the challenges.  It is a start.  The

        18       merging of the two roles with someone with the

        19       requisite leadership, with the vast

        20       experience, with the preparation, with MTA

        21       experience, I think would be a great start.

        22                  Having met the gentleman, having

        23       heard and listened to the challenges posed by

        24       my colleagues, I think that it is a good



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         1       start.

         2                  Clearly not the end of the ride.

         3       We must visit underserved areas.  I come from

         4       one of those.  We struggled mightily to keep

         5       tolls away from bridges of one and two and

         6       three bucks.  We have to deal with revenue

         7       generation.  We have to deal with cost savings

         8       and waste.  And transparency and oversight and

         9       great leadership at the top will help the

        10       engine to start rolling down the right track.

        11                  I support this nomination.  Thank

        12       you very much.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        14       you, Senator Espada.

        15                  Senator Carl Kruger.

        16                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Thank you,

        17       Mr. President.

        18                  I rise firstly to thank my

        19       colleagues, both Senator Dilan and Senator

        20       Perkins, and their committees for joining us

        21       as we traveled through two hearings in the MTA

        22       region concerning this nomination.

        23                  The Governor, in his wisdom,

        24       selected someone of impeccable talent.



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         1       Mr. Walder comes to the head of the MTA with a

         2       vast knowledge of the workings of huge

         3       transportation systems.  But more importantly,

         4       he comes with fresh ideas and with a clear

         5       mission.

         6                  At today's hearing, Mr. Walder

         7       committed to our committee that he would

         8       agree, notwithstanding the fact that our

         9       legislation calls for an audit, for a forensic

        10       audit of the MTA, the opportunity to open up

        11       the books and records in a way that we have

        12       never been able to do before.  We will go into

        13       the MTA -- and originally we said that we

        14       would use our subpoena power, if necessary, to

        15       do it.  Well, now transparency and

        16       accountability will become the cornerstone of

        17       the new administration at the MTA.  And that

        18       we are very thankful for.

        19                  And we're very optimistic as we go

        20       forward that we're going to uncover many of

        21       the things that we all have been mumbling and

        22       talking about, from hidden assets to two sets

        23       of books.

        24                  And with that in mind, we have to



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         1       recognize that we still have an obligation.

         2       The capital plan that we put forward is a

         3       short-term vision of what ultimately has to

         4       become a long-range goal to bring the MTA into

         5       the 21st century.  And with Mr. Walder at the

         6       head, I know that we're going to be able to do

         7       it.

         8                  Yes, we went through some tough

         9       times.  There were some tough negotiations:

        10       Were we going to decide to do a congestion

        11       pricing component and toll the East River and

        12       Harlem crossings as a way to offer a

        13       sustainable revenue stream for the MTA?  We

        14       were going to talk about a gasoline tax.  And

        15       if we spoke about a gasoline tax as an

        16       alternative to a payroll tax, we were talking

        17       about having to tax gasoline at over $2 on a

        18       gallon, which obviously was ludicrous.

        19                  So today we are on the threshold of

        20       a new era.  We have an opportunity to bring to

        21       our ridership in this 12-county region both

        22       transparency, accountability, a mission and a

        23       purpose.  Combined what we were able to do in

        24       our MTA rescue plan, we're not going to go



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         1       back to the transit system of the '80s.  We're

         2       not going to be faced with draconian cuts in

         3       service and astronomical fare increases that

         4       the rank-and-file ridership could not absorb.

         5                  Certainly there are vast holes.

         6       The issue of what's happening on the Long

         7       Island Railroad is of deep concern to us.  The

         8       labor package as it's been brought forth by

         9       the arbitrator raises some serious challenges

        10       at the MTA.  The points that Senator Saland

        11       said are points that don't date from today,

        12       but we're talking about inequities that go

        13       back 25 years, if not better -- inequities

        14       that this house under past leadership should

        15       have and could have dealt with.  The way the

        16       structure of the MTA board was created was

        17       created in administrations that were under the

        18       control of the prior majority in this house.

        19                  So at the end of the day,

        20       Mr. President, what we're able to say is that

        21       we have a new birth and a new generation at

        22       the MTA with a new mission and a new purpose,

        23       armed with this house as a partner, but with

        24       the legislative muscle to make changes if



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         1       changes have to be made.

         2                  Welcome aboard, Mr. Walder.

         3                  Thank you.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         5       you, Senator Kruger.

         6                  Senator Savino.

         7                  SENATOR SAVINO:    Thank you,

         8       Mr. President.

         9                  I also rise in support of this

        10       nomination.  And I want to congratulate the

        11       Governor for his selection.  I also want to

        12       thank my colleagues Senators Kruger, Perkins

        13       and Dilan for hosting the hearings.

        14                  And earlier this week I had the

        15       opportunity to first attend a hearing in

        16       Harlem where I got to meet Mr. Walder for the

        17       first time.  I was quite excited to meet him.

        18       I'm a big fan of his work, having been to

        19       London several times and seen just how

        20       impressive the London Underground is and how

        21       it not only centered around the city, the city

        22       center of London, but the greater London

        23       region, which in many ways is very similar to

        24       the 12-county region of the MTA.



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         1                  But in the course of these

         2       discussions that we've had, I warned him about

         3       the combative nature that exists between the

         4       MTA and the Legislature.  And the truth is no

         5       legislator ever loses votes by beating up on

         6       the MTA.  It's an agency we all love to hate,

         7       and with good reason.

         8                  And as you have heard, Mr. Walder,

         9       in your conversations with many of us during

        10       the last few weeks, there is a level of

        11       frustration and anger that we reflect from our

        12       constituents, constituents who have been

        13       underserved and overtaxed by the MTA for

        14       decades.  You've heard it from Senator Lanza,

        15       you've heard it from Senator Marcellino, you

        16       heard it from Senator Saland, you will hear it

        17       from some of my colleagues.

        18                  And I have a basic philosophy in

        19       life.  It's okay to be angry, but you should

        20       know who to be angry at.  So I'm not going to

        21       hold you responsible for a job that you

        22       haven't gotten yet.  I'm not going to hold you

        23       responsible for the past mistakes of the MTA.

        24       I'm going to welcome you aboard.  With your



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         1       wealth of information, with your vast

         2       experience, you are a world-class

         3       transportation expert, and I'm going to hope

         4       that you're going to take some of that

         5       innovation that you have used in London and in

         6       Asia and in the other transit markets in

         7       Europe and you're going to bring that to the

         8       MTA, because they need to so desperately.

         9                  And I'm going to hold you

        10       accountable for starting to change the

        11       relationship between your agency and this

        12       body.  And I will tell you, you're lucky you

        13       only had to deal with the Senate.  If you had

        14       had to listen to the Assembly as well, these

        15       hearings would have gone on a lot longer.

        16                  There is a level of discontent that

        17       exists between the MTA and the people in this

        18       room, the people who should be your partner.

        19       And I hope that we will become your partner,

        20       and I am prepared to become one of those

        21       partners.  Because the work that you are going

        22       to be entrusted to do is so critically

        23       important not just to the people who live in

        24       my district or Senator Lanza's district or



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         1       Senator Smith's district, but the entire

         2       region.  You know the importance of a

         3       world-class transportation system.  So I'm

         4       going to hold you accountable for those

         5       things, not for the past.

         6                  And finally, I have heard a couple

         7       of people raise the issue of your salary.

         8       Now, just for comparison, I'm going to read a

         9       couple of numbers which some of you probably

        10       don't have.  So the new head of the MTA, chair

        11       and CEO, who's going to earn a salary of a

        12       $350,000 a year, will oversee a system that

        13       carries 10 million, almost 11 million people a

        14       day and has over 70,000 employees.

        15                  Compare that to the City of

        16       Washington, where the general manager of their

        17       system earns $300,000 a year -- just a few

        18       thousand less -- but they only move a million

        19       people a day and they only have 9200

        20       employees.

        21                  And you look at Denver, where their

        22       interim GM earns $172,000 a year, just about

        23       half of this compensation package.  But yet

        24       they only move 292,000 people a year and have



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         1       2500 employees.

         2                  So in the scope of compensation

         3       packages for the head of a major

         4       transportation system, I don't think $350,000

         5       is out of whack.  In fact, after having

         6       listened to us for the past few weeks, I

         7       actually think you should ask for a raise,

         8       because it's not going to be easy.

         9                  But I hope that your interaction

        10       with members of the Senate has been

        11       informative, even if it has not always been

        12       pleasant, and we will create a new dynamic and

        13       a new relationship that will help us build

        14       that world-class system that New York City

        15       definitely deserves, the suburban regions

        16       deserve, and upstate deserves as well.

        17                  Thank you, and welcome aboard,

        18       Mr. Walder.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        20       you, Senator Savino.

        21                  Senator Schneiderman.

        22                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

        23       Mr. President.

        24                  I rise to strongly support this



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         1       nomination.  I just have to say virtually all

         2       of the discussion here today by those who

         3       expressed concerns about Mr. Walder and his

         4       confirmation really has very, very little or

         5       nothing to do with Mr. Walder.  You know the

         6       expression "It's not you, it's me?"  Well, to

         7       a certain extent it's not you, it's us.

         8                  And you can tell that we have been

         9       having trouble for many years in our

        10       interaction with the MTA and our efforts to do

        11       our job to monitor what's going on, to make

        12       sure that appropriations are spent

        13       responsibly, to make sure that directives are

        14       followed.  The MTA has been one of the most

        15       opaque entities that we've had to deal with in

        16       the state government.

        17                  I have to say, as someone who for

        18       many years represented the Straphangers

        19       Campaign -- and I've sued the MTA on numerous

        20       occasions and been in discovery trying to

        21       decipher their documents -- the MTA has gotten

        22       steadily better.  Mr. Walder was a part of the

        23       team in the MTA really during the worst period

        24       of time of that agency, a very challenging



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         1       period of time, from '83 to '95.  I actually

         2       saw the results of his work in some of the

         3       litigation that I was involved with.

         4                  And ladies and gentlemen, whatever

         5       your concerns are about the lack of

         6       responsiveness, about the concerns about

         7       numbers that don't appear to be credible --

         8       and as Senator Kruger has indicated, we are

         9       going to be doing more by way of auditing to

        10       make sure that we know exactly what all the

        11       numbers mean.  Whatever your concerns are

        12       about that, whatever your objections may be to

        13       congestion pricing or to tolling or anything

        14       else, that not Mr. Walder's fault.

        15                  I think it is important for us to

        16       focus on something here today as we are

        17       attempting to attract the best people into

        18       public service in this state.  He could stay

        19       with McKinsey making a lot of money.  He's

        20       coming back with a lot more money than he's

        21       going to make here.  He's coming back to help

        22       us solve one of the most intractable problems

        23       in the State of New York, how to finance this

        24       agency, how to make sure that the engine that



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         1       makes our economy run in downstate New York

         2       operates efficiently and effectively for all

         3       of our constituents.  I am glad he's coming

         4       back.

         5                  And I hope that you will listen to

         6       the criticisms, participate in the debate,

         7       answer the questions, fight with us.  But not

         8       for one moment should you believe that -- I

         9       certainly don't believe anyone in good faith

        10       can contend you are not qualified and that it

        11       is not a benefit to the people of the State of

        12       New York that you are coming back to work with

        13       us.

        14                  I look forward to arguing with you,

        15       to debating with you, to questioning you, and

        16       occasionally suing you, perhaps --

        17                  (Laughter.)

        18                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    -- but

        19       that doesn't mean it's not great for the

        20       people of the State of New York that you're

        21       coming back here to us.

        22                  This is the most important engine

        23       of economic development in our state.  Let us

        24       never lose sight of that, ladies and



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         1       gentlemen.  The money from the downstate

         2       region finances everything else.  Let's give

         3       this guy a chance.  Let's give him the support

         4       we need.

         5                  And we'll help you with the

         6       forensic audits.  Just in case there's

         7       something you can't figure out, we'll try and

         8       figure it out for you.

         9                  I strongly support this nomination,

        10       Mr. President.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        12       you, Senator Schneiderman.

        13                  Senator Larkin.

        14                  SENATOR LARKIN:    Thank you,

        15       Mr. President.

        16                  I had the privilege and the

        17       pleasure today of meeting with Mr. Walder at

        18       three committee meetings.  I had telephone

        19       calls with him last week.  I don't want to be

        20       repetitive of what we heard from others on

        21       both sides of the issue, but this is a job

        22       that takes a man with experience.  This is a

        23       job that needs somebody who can be hands-on.

        24                  I've read all about his term with



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         1       the MTA before.  I've talked to some people

         2       who know what went on in London, and they say

         3       the same thing.  He is a hands-on individual

         4       who knows how to lead, know how to manage.

         5       Those are two qualities that have been missing

         6       in the MTA for years.  You don't have to be in

         7       the New York City area, you can be here in the

         8       Albany area and you can hear the same

         9       problems.

        10                  What we have here, though,

        11       Mr. Walder, we just need to make sure that you

        12       don't forget the comments that were rendered

        13       to you about our concerns and why we need what

        14       we need to make sure that the MTA responds to

        15       the ridership, whether it's the daily

        16       commuters or those who go to the city just for

        17       a day of recreation.

        18                  This is an important assignment.

        19       It's probably one of the most important jobs

        20       that we have here in the state.  I don't know

        21       why anybody would want it.  But you've got it.

        22       Now you've got to bring to the table those

        23       credentials that you have and put them

        24       alongside of your abilities and your



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         1       willingness to work with us.

         2                  I'm giving you my vote because you

         3       said "I will work to accomplish the positive

         4       things that the MTA is supposed to do."  I

         5       trust you, but I'll be watching you.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         7       you, Senator Larkin.

         8                  Senator Dilan.

         9                  SENATOR DILAN:    Thank you,

        10       Mr. President.

        11                  I rise to congratulate the Governor

        12       on the high caliber of his nominee.  And also

        13       I'd like to commend Mr. Walder for taking on

        14       this awesome task of being the chairman and

        15       CEO of the Metropolitan Transportation

        16       Authority.

        17                  Also, I'd like to commend

        18       Mr. Walder on the fact that he did attend two

        19       public hearings and respond to our questions

        20       in an open forum.  I think during the course

        21       of those two hearings -- also, I happen to be

        22       a member of the Corporations Committee, chair

        23       of the Transportation Committee, and a member

        24       of the Finance Committee, so I had many



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         1       opportunities to question Mr. Walder and to

         2       listen to his response.

         3                  So I think that he has already

         4       shown that he is an honest, hands-on person,

         5       and open, and will open up the MTA to

         6       accountability and transparency by the mere

         7       fact that he chose to be present at those two

         8       public hearings.  He didn't have to be there.

         9       He had to be before us today at our committee

        10       meetings, but he chose to be at those public

        11       hearings.

        12                  I think that during the course of

        13       these meetings he also made his position very

        14       clear on congestion pricing.  He indicated to

        15       at least us in the Transportation Committee,

        16       and I believe also in the Finance Committee

        17       and in the forums, that if congestion pricing

        18       was the law of the land he would implement it.

        19       However, in New York City we do not have

        20       congestion pricing, so therefore he's not

        21       advocating for it and he is not going to

        22       implement that.

        23                  Also, I just want to comment with

        24       respect to our five-year capital plan for



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         1       roads and bridges throughout the State of

         2       New York.  We made a commitment to all our

         3       colleagues in this chamber that before this

         4       year is out there will be a plan for roads

         5       throughout the State of New York -- Long

         6       Island, upstate.  There will be a plan for the

         7       bridges of the State of New York.

         8                  Also my committee, Transportation,

         9       has committed to holding hearings throughout

        10       the state.  Within probably the next two

        11       months, we'll be in Buffalo, we'll be in

        12       Syracuse, we'll in Long Island, we'll be in

        13       the Hudson Valley.  I expect, hopefully, that

        14       we'll be also in Binghamton to listen to all

        15       the concerns of the people of the State of

        16       New York.

        17                  And as we promised every member in

        18       this chamber and the people of the State of

        19       New York during our budget negotiations, we

        20       will have a five-year capital plan for roads

        21       and bridges for the entire State of New York.

        22                  Thank you, and good luck.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        24       you, Senator Dilan.



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         1                  Senator Leibell.

         2                  SENATOR LEIBELL:    Thank you,

         3       Mr. President.

         4                  And I also was at the Finance

         5       Committee meeting and had a chance to listen

         6       to the nominee.  And I think the nominee

         7       understands by now, after having listened to

         8       so many members, both at the committee meeting

         9       and here on the floor, that our comments are

        10       in no way personal.  And certainly he brings

        11       to this position a great resume.

        12                  Having said that, I think the

        13       nominee is also very aware by now of how

        14       distressed we are as a legislative body and

        15       how distressed our constituents are.

        16                  It was only a few years ago that we

        17       passed a major reform law for authorities.  At

        18       the time I chaired that committee.  And I have

        19       to say to you that there was no authority that

        20       resisted change more than the MTA, through

        21       every back channel you can think of.  They did

        22       not wish to change.

        23                  Every entity, whether it's an

        24       authority or a legislature or a private



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         1       industry, has a culture, a corporate culture.

         2       And I'm going to suggest that the corporate

         3       culture within the MTA is one of arrogance

         4       coupled with indifference.

         5                  Now, there's a reason why we have

         6       authorities in this state and in all other

         7       states.  Actually, they were initially used

         8       very successfully by Governor Franklin

         9       Roosevelt, later President Franklin Roosevelt.

        10       And they are creatures of the state

        11       government.  They can move more swiftly than

        12       entities that are not authorities.  They are

        13       able to significantly finance things and do

        14       things in a different way than we might

        15       otherwise do.  They do bring advantages to the

        16       public sector that can benefit and have in the

        17       past benefited our constituents.

        18                  But this is an organization, the

        19       MTA, that is so far out of whack, so far out

        20       of line, that they only hurt our constituents.

        21       Senator Saland mentioned the county that he

        22       and share -- and I also go into Putnam,

        23       northern Westchester.  The cost to our

        24       ridership of participating in this body, in



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         1       this MTA, in this authority, the farther north

         2       you go, the more it outweighs the benefits.

         3                  And yet how are we treated?  There

         4       were not those public hearings conducted in

         5       the Hudson Valley.  I'm glad to hear they'll

         6       be there someday.  I hope that it's known that

         7       the Hudson Valley goes beyond Yonkers.  We'd

         8       love to hear from the people in power.  My

         9       constituents would love to hear from the MTA.

        10       They'd like to know what it is that they did

        11       wrong that they have been so badly beaten up.

        12                  When we talk about the payroll tax

        13       following a budget that we had last year that

        14       was disastrous, that is almost the final nail

        15       in the coffin for the Hudson Valley and for

        16       probably most of the MTA region.

        17                  I hope that our nominee will be

        18       able to change this corporate culture.  I hope

        19       that this nominee will be able to show our

        20       constituents that this will be a different

        21       type of organization, that it will provide

        22       real services at an affordable cost.

        23                  And I do not think it's

        24       inappropriate to discuss salaries that people



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         1       are paid in public life.  I've heard a couple

         2       of my colleagues throw around very large

         3       numbers here today, double probably -- almost

         4       double what the Governor of this state makes.

         5       Last time I looked the Governor, has some

         6       great responsibilities.  I'm going to suggest

         7       to you that the chairman of the Joint Chiefs

         8       of Staff has a number of significant

         9       responsibilities but makes a fraction of this

        10       salary.

        11                  So these numbers are not

        12       insignificant, and they are public dollars at

        13       the end of the day.  We've seen a lot of

        14       criticism out there during this recession of

        15       some of the bonuses and salaries that are paid

        16       in the private sector.  Well, it's even more

        17       significant when they're public dollars.

        18                  So I hope our nominee will listen

        19       to what we are saying here today, and

        20       especially to my comments on a corporate

        21       culture that is bad, that is rotten, and that

        22       needs to change.

        23                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank



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         1       you, Senator Leibell.

         2                  Senator Stavisky.

         3                  SENATOR STAVISKY:    Thank you,

         4       Mr. President.

         5                  Senator Schneiderman is not the

         6       only one who has sued the MTA in the past.

         7       Many years ago my husband went to federal

         8       court and sued the MTA on the issue of holding

         9       hearings before there are changes in service.

        10       And in fact I believe Senator Schneiderman

        11       used that case as part of his argument.

        12                  But let me be very, very brief,

        13       because we've heard today comments from

        14       various people representing different parts of

        15       the state.  To summarize, what I think is

        16       facing the MTA today is a crisis in

        17       confidence.  We have to be able to restore our

        18       faith in the MTA that when they show us some

        19       numbers, that we know that those numbers are

        20       true and accurate representations of what

        21       actually is.

        22                  So it is my hope with this

        23       confirmation of Mr. Walder -- and I feel very

        24       confident that he will do this -- that he will



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         1       restore the confidence that has been so

         2       lacking over the years in the MTA.  And I

         3       think it's up to us in the Legislature to try

         4       to make it as easy as possible, because I

         5       think we succeed as he succeeds.

         6                  And Mr. President, I vote aye.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         8       you, Senator Stavisky.

         9                  Senator Perkins.

        10                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Thank you very

        11       much, Mr. President.

        12                  I just want to take a moment to

        13       express my support for the candidate, the

        14       nominee.

        15                  I had the honor of working with

        16       Senator Dilan and Senator Kruger in a series

        17       of hearings out in Mineola, Long Island, as

        18       well as in New York City, in my district in

        19       particular, and therefore had a sort of

        20       privileged opportunity to see him respond to a

        21       lot of criticism that obviously has great

        22       merit from the perspective of those in certain

        23       parts of the community.

        24                  One of the things that I was



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         1       appreciative of, especially when he was in my

         2       district, was that after he made his

         3       presentation and was grilled by the members

         4       who were a part of the committee, he bothered

         5       to stay and hear from the rest of those who

         6       had come to testify.  Even as they criticized

         7       vociferously, he nevertheless sat and took it

         8       in and seemed to be at least interested in not

         9       just being flattered but also hearing the

        10       criticism.  He could just as easily have gone

        11       and did what he had to do is, as is normally

        12       the case, but instead he stayed to the end of

        13       what I think turned out to be I think a three

        14       or four hour hearing in which he was really

        15       finished after the first hour.

        16                  So I think that that kind of

        17       patience and appreciation to hear is an

        18       indication of the kind of quality I think that

        19       begins to provide for the leadership, the kind

        20       of leadership that is going to be needed in

        21       this very difficult circumstance that we are

        22       all facing, and hopefully with his leadership.

        23                  I have a little curiosity, though,

        24       about some of the concerns that I've heard,



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         1       which is that, you know, these problems in

         2       other parts of the region that have come up

         3       during the earlier debates and even today are

         4       problems that are new to us today, those of us

         5       that are in the majority now.  And it seems --

         6       I'm a little bit curious about why, having

         7       been in the leadership in the past, these

         8       problems are still remaining.

         9                  I think it's very, very important

        10       for Mr. Walder to really come to an

        11       appreciation of what didn't happen over the

        12       past forty years or so when there was a

        13       different type of leadership, especially that

        14       was not necessarily from the city but from

        15       outside of the city.

        16                  And so I would hope that those who

        17       had the opportunity to be in such leadership

        18       positions in the past would really share with

        19       him what were the intractable problems that

        20       you've had and you seem to be laying at his

        21       feet -- not necessarily to blame, but

        22       nevertheless to challenge him and perhaps even

        23       suggest that he's not worthy because he

        24       doesn't have the answers right now.  So



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         1       something that's happened for a long time in

         2       other places that he has to deal with almost

         3       as if he's responsible for those conditions.

         4                  So let us, like, all work together

         5       to help him understand that and to help him

         6       make the lift that's needed to be made so that

         7       the region -- and especially my

         8       neighborhood -- gets the kind of services that

         9       folks feel that they're paying dearly for.

        10       But I mean, in all seriousness, that all of

        11       our neighborhoods, that all of our communities

        12       get it.

        13                  And I think, in that spirit of

        14       unity and cooperation, we give him at least a

        15       head start to be successful.  Because his

        16       failure is not his own, his failure becomes

        17       our constituents'.  And we can't afford for

        18       our constituents to suffer another failure.

        19                  And the fact that he is coming from

        20       an important place where he could make a lot

        21       more money is totally irrelevant to me.  In

        22       fact, the privilege of the opportunity that

        23       he's getting is priceless.  And I would hope

        24       that he appreciates that and does not in any



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         1       way think that the comparison of his salary to

         2       what he could be worth is some sort of a

         3       sacrifice on his part.

         4                  Quite the opposite.  He's in a

         5       place where he's able to make a significant

         6       difference in many more lives, I daresay, than

         7       he would as a rich person in some famous law

         8       firm or whatever the case may be.  He's now

         9       going to be the head of the most significant

        10       transit system in the world and have an

        11       opportunity to bring it to a place where

        12       there's never been and perhaps where no other

        13       transit system in the world has ever been.

        14       That's a great opportunity for someone, any

        15       one of us to be able to have the privilege of

        16       doing.

        17                  So I welcome him towards that end,

        18       and I appreciate the fact that my colleagues

        19       who have been dissatisfied have been very

        20       vigorous about their dissatisfaction with the

        21       way the system is now.  It reminds me of the

        22       best quality of my constituents, which is that

        23       they dare to complain and be persistent in

        24       order to make me do a better job.  And I hope



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         1       that that translates to him becoming a better

         2       leader for our system.

         3                  Thank you.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         5       you, Senator Perkins.

         6                  Senator Flanagan.

         7                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Thank you,

         8       Mr. President.

         9                  Like everybody else, I had a chance

        10       to listen to a lot of the comments that were

        11       offered, including the comments that just came

        12       from Senator Perkins.  I would differentiate

        13       just in a couple of basic respects.

        14                  I, like many of us, had a chance to

        15       meet Mr. Walder a little while ago.  He was up

        16       in Albany several months ago, and I had a

        17       chance to ask him very frankly and bluntly

        18       like "Why do you want this job?  Why would you

        19       want this job?"  And I think -- I won't put

        20       words in his mouth exactly, but the answer was

        21       "It's kind of like the World Series.  You're

        22       playing for the Yankees.  When you're head of

        23       the MTA and you work in transit, you're on the

        24       best team and this is the biggest challenge



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         1       that's out there."

         2                  I respect that.  On paper, his

         3       credentials are impeccable.

         4                  But I listened to Senator Dilan,

         5       and he made a reference that Mr. Walder had

         6       attended two public hearings when he didn't

         7       have to.  Technically, you're right.  But

         8       fundamentally, I think that's where we start

         9       to get off on the wrong foot.

        10                  If a legislative body says they

        11       want a prospective nominee or they want the

        12       chairman or the executive director, the bottom

        13       line is they should show up.  They're not

        14       doing us any favor.  They should be there

        15       because that's their job, that's their

        16       responsibility.

        17                  And to the comments that were

        18       offered by many of my colleagues, including

        19       Senator Perkins, I would make this

        20       differentiation.  We all have our one vote,

        21       and in reality that's all we have.  Perhaps we

        22       have our reputation and our integrity, but the

        23       bottom line is we have our one vote.  And when

        24       I cast my vote today, I want to be able to go



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         1       back to my constituents and say this is why I

         2       voted yes or this is why I voted no.

         3                  And in listening and watching --

         4       and I did not attend the hearings, but I spoke

         5       to many of my colleagues who asked very

         6       direct, pointed, timely and in-depth

         7       questions -- I can't go back to the people I

         8       represent and say yes, this person is terrific

         9       on paper and I have every confidence that

        10       things are going to go in the right direction.

        11                  And here's the bottom line.  And

        12       this is where I will say, perhaps a little

        13       differently, I am going to make it personal.

        14       I don't believe that Mr. Walder has offered

        15       enough information and enough concrete details

        16       and enough hard ideas to the people in this

        17       body.  So I can't go back right now and say

        18       I'm good, on behalf of the people I represent,

        19       I think we're going in the right direction.

        20       And I'll just give a couple of examples.

        21                  Let's not overlook the fact that

        22       despite the fact that Mr. Walder has been

        23       overseas for a number of years, he worked for

        24       the MTA for 13 years.  He's not a newbie to



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         1       the situation here.  He's got a track

         2       record -- no pun intended -- having worked in

         3       this area and for this authority for over a

         4       decade.  So he's not unfamiliar with some of

         5       the problems that have been around before,

         6       during his tenure, and after, and the things

         7       that are there prospectively.

         8                  And I don't care whether it's him

         9       or anyone else who's looking for this job.

        10       When you come and you're going to take on a

        11       responsibility like this, you do your

        12       homework.  You're not coming into this blind.

        13       You're going to know what the politics are.

        14       You're going to know who the players are.

        15       You're going to know who the new chairs are.

        16       You're going to know who the people are that

        17       you have to meet with.  And you sure as heck

        18       are going to know what the issues are, whether

        19       it's a deficit, it's a bailout, it's a payroll

        20       tax, it's a five-year capital plan, it's

        21       begging for federal money.

        22                  You're coming into this process.

        23       And while you may not know every nuance and

        24       every detail of what goes on in the MTA every



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         1       single day, let's not kid ourselves that our

         2       nominee here is new to the game.

         3                  Now, why is that important to me?

         4       Because on very basic things -- and I'll use

         5       two examples -- not enough forthright answers.

         6       I would love to be able to go back to my

         7       constituents and say, In light of the fact of

         8       what's going on in this economy, the head of

         9       the MTA has made it clear that he is going to

        10       fight like heck to overturn that arbitration

        11       award.

        12                  We cannot afford it.  We all know

        13       we cannot afford it.  And if something is not

        14       done about it, those $300 million in

        15       additional labor costs is going to come out of

        16       somebody's hide.  It's either going to come

        17       out of the capital plan or it's going to come

        18       out of the ratepayers or the fare payers, and

        19       we're going to be the ones that are going to

        20       have to deal with that ultimately because it's

        21       our constituents that are going to be

        22       affected.

        23                  So I am making it personal in this

        24       respect.  I wanted more detail and I wanted



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         1       more in-depth answers and three or four or

         2       five concrete things that this gentleman would

         3       have said "These are my first five mission

         4       priorities to get things done."  Because you

         5       all know this, and I know it as well, you step

         6       into a job like, if you have trouble coming up

         7       with some hard stuff for us, you'll never get

         8       the hard stuff done when you go there.

         9                  Now, I'll close with this.  I hope,

        10       in deference to many of the things that my

        11       colleagues said, I hope I'm wrong.  I

        12       absolutely hope I'm wrong.  And I hope in six,

        13       nine, 12 months I can go to my constituents

        14       and say:  You know what, this gentleman has

        15       proved me wrong and we're all better because

        16       he's now the head of the MTA.  So I hope I'm

        17       wrong.

        18                  But right now I don't have the

        19       level of comfort to vote yes.  I will be

        20       voting no.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        22       you, Senator Flanagan.

        23                  Senator Fuschillo.

        24                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Just quickly,



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         1       Mr. President.  Thank you very much.

         2                  And I appreciate the comments and

         3       sensitivity that my colleagues have expressed.

         4       But the time is now to act.

         5                  And I want to thank Senator

         6       Perkins, Senator Kruger, and Senator Dilan for

         7       holding the hearings that they did on Long

         8       Island, in Mineola.  And I expressed the same

         9       frustration as my colleagues did from

        10       Long Island, and I thought Mr. Walder was

        11       somewhat evasive.

        12                  But I must say that this bloated

        13       bureaucracy -- that has the worst reputation

        14       of any public authority or agency here in the

        15       State of New York -- needs leadership.  I've

        16       met with Helena Williams, who is the acting

        17       CEO right now and president of Long Island

        18       Railroad, and she's overwhelmed.  And I think

        19       it's important that this legislative body

        20       addresses the issue now.

        21                  Mr. Walder's resume is

        22       unquestionable.  His experience in

        23       transportation issues is exactly what the MTA

        24       needs.  I'm going to vote for this nominee



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         1       with the hope that today is a new beginning,

         2       today is an understanding that my commuters

         3       from my district -- and Long Island Railroad

         4       runs up and down my district, from Baldwin to

         5       Babylon -- he understands that the commuters

         6       can't take it anymore.  They can't take any

         7       more increases in fees, they can't take any

         8       more increases in their tickets, they can't

         9       take any more increases in the surcharge.

        10                  But we have to act today.  And I'm

        11       hopeful that with the experience that he

        12       brings, it's the experience necessary that's

        13       going to make a change in an agency that

        14       sorely needs it.

        15                  Thank you very much, Mr. President.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        17       you, Senator Fuschillo.

        18                  The question is on the notion to

        19       confirm the nomination of Jay H. Walder as

        20       chairman and chief executive officer of the

        21       Metropolitan Transportation Authority.

        22                  Senator Libous.

        23                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you,

        24       Mr. President.  Could I ask that the



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         1       confirmation vote be taken by a show of hands

         2       and that the nos be recorded and announced,

         3       please.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Of

         5       course, Senator Libous.

         6                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    First,

         8       all those in favor please signify by saying

         9       aye.

        10                  (Response of "Aye.")

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        12       Opposed, please show your hands.

        13                  The Secretary will announce the

        14       results.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Those Senators

        16       recorded in the negative on the confirmation

        17       of Jay Herbert Walder are Senators Flanagan,

        18       Griffo, Lanza, LaValle, Leibell, Libous,

        19       Marcellino, Maziarz, Nozzolio, Robach, Saland,

        20       Seward and Young.

        21                  Ayes, 47.  Nays, 13.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        23       nomination is hereby confirmed; the motion

        24       carries.



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         1                  (Standing ovation.)

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         3       Chairman Walder is also joined by his in-laws,

         4       Anne and Bill Cummings, and his uncle, Ed

         5       Gregory.

         6                  Congratulations.

         7                  (Applause.)

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         9       Secretary will continue to read.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    As superintendent

        11       of the Insurance Department of the State of

        12       New York, James J. Wrynn, of Douglaston.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        14       Senator Kruger.

        15                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Mr.

        16       President, can we please move the nomination.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        18       Senator Stavisky.

        19                  SENATOR STAVISKY:    Thank you,

        20       Mr. President.

        21                  I've known Mr. Wrynn for many

        22       years.  In fact, I've known his entire family

        23       for certainly the past 15 years or so.

        24                  In the community, he's been



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         1       extremely active.  He is a member of the board

         2       of St. John's Law School Alumni.  He was

         3       counsel to a member of the Assembly for five

         4       years.  He served on the New York City

         5       Economic Development Corporation, the Business

         6       Relocation Corporation, and so on -- the

         7       Community Board 13.

         8                  But let me mention some of the

         9       things that are not so apparent from the

        10       biographical material that you have before

        11       you.

        12                  He has served the Little

        13       Neck-Douglaston Memorial Day Parade, which is

        14       one of the largest in the country, and in 2007

        15       he was their "Man of the Year."

        16                  He also joined President Clinton in

        17       December of 2000 on a visit to Northern

        18       Ireland.  He's been involved with the peace

        19       movement in Northern Ireland, which I find

        20       very interesting because we were privileged to

        21       visit Northern Ireland several years ago with

        22       the Irish legislators.

        23                  He also joined the New York State

        24       Attorney General on a visit to Ireland in



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         1       March of '05, with Speaker Quinn from the

         2       New York City Council and other dignitaries.

         3                  And in fact, in September of 2007

         4       he received the Paul O'Dwyer Peace and Justice

         5       Award for his service to the peace process.

         6                  He's an attorney.  His law office

         7       was originally in Manhattan, but he's in been

         8       in Douglaston for quite a number of years.

         9       He's been the executive director of the State

        10       Insurance Fund for several months.  And this

        11       is an opportunity for him to participate in

        12       policymaking as it affects the insurance

        13       industry.

        14                  One of my previous jobs many years

        15       ago was working in the actuarial department of

        16       an insurance company for two years, and I must

        17       say it was not the most interesting job in the

        18       world.  And in fact that's when I went into

        19       teaching.

        20                  Jim Wrynn, on the other hand, finds

        21       it exciting.  And it is a tribute to his

        22       enthusiasm and to his love of both the

        23       insurance industry, the accounting field, and

        24       tax policy that brings him to this



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         1       confirmation day as superintendent of the

         2       State Insurance Department.

         3                  As an attorney I have seen Jim

         4       Wrynn treat parties with great respect.

         5       Today, before the Finance Committee, I was

         6       impressed with the way he handled himself.

         7       You can see that this is an individual who

         8       will treat people fairly.  He will treat all

         9       parties fairly.  And he is an expert in all

        10       aspects; he made that very clear today at the

        11       Finance Committee.

        12                  And the most interesting quote of

        13       all, I must tell you, was in the Times Union,

        14       where he was quoted as saying "I love

        15       insurance."

        16                  And sometimes I think we become a

        17       little jaded, a little sort of skeptical.  And

        18       to see somebody so interested in this field I

        19       find to be very inspiring and exciting.  And I

        20       am so proud to stand here today to speak on

        21       the confirmation of James J. Wrynn, Jr.

        22                  But let me just add that in the

        23       balcony with him -- and I know the Temporary

        24       President will introduce the people formally,



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         1       but I am so happy to see so many friends from

         2       the Queens community.  I see wife up there,

         3       Maura, who's a public school teacher, and his

         4       parents, Mrs. and Mrs. James Wrynn, Sr.  And I

         5       think I even see Justice Peter O'Donoghue up

         6       there in the gallery, justice of the Supreme

         7       Court.

         8                  So we welcome you all to Albany.

         9       And this is a very exciting day for not just

        10       the Wrynn family but for the Stavisky family

        11       and for the people in Queens County.

        12                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        14       you, Senator Stavisky.

        15                  Senator Seward.

        16                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Thank you,

        17       Mr. President.

        18                  I certainly have not known Jim

        19       Wrynn to the length of time that Senator

        20       Stavisky has.  In fact, I've only gotten to

        21       know Mr. Wrynn during the confirmation process

        22       as the ranking member of the Insurance

        23       Committee.

        24                  But I've got to say that I've been



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         1       very, very impressed with Jim Wrynn.  He is

         2       obviously very well qualified to be

         3       Superintendent of Insurance.  He's very

         4       knowledgeable on the issues.  And there is a

         5       sense of enthusiasm for the issues that is

         6       well demonstrated by not only his background

         7       but his comments during the confirmation

         8       process.

         9                  He certainly has an

        10       experience-based background in the insurance

        11       issues.  And I've been particularly impressed

        12       with his stated desires in terms of our future

        13       in terms of insurance in this state to have

        14       the insurance market be very vibrant and for

        15       the benefit of insurance consumers of our

        16       state, and also maintaining New York State as

        17       the insurance capital not only in the country

        18       but of the world.  And that's very, very

        19       important to the thousands and thousands of

        20       people who not only are insurance consumers

        21       but who are employed by the insurance industry

        22       of our great state.

        23                  So I rise, Mr. President, to

        24       congratulate the Governor on this choice and



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         1       also to congratulate Jim Wrynn and his family

         2       and certainly look forward to working with him

         3       in the future.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         5       you, Senator Seward.

         6                  Senator DeFrancisco.

         7                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes, I rise

         8       also in support of the nomination.

         9                  I think sometimes when you meet

        10       somebody and just listen to his answers, you

        11       get a good feel for the type of person the

        12       nominee is.  And I just happen to feel that

        13       this is the right person for this job.

        14                  His answers were professional.  A

        15       couple of tough questions were asked in

        16       Finance.  He didn't give the answer that maybe

        17       the person questioning him wanted or expected

        18       or would have been good for his nomination; he

        19       gave the honest answer.  And with respect, for

        20       example, to tort reform.  It depends on what

        21       tort reform you're talking about, rather than

        22       the knee-jerk reaction that you would see from

        23       many nominees trying to please someone

        24       questioning him.



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         1                  In this particular case also, what

         2       impresses me is that he's already taken on a

         3       very difficult issue that I've been involved

         4       in for several years, life settlements.  He's

         5       gotten involved himself, he's listening to

         6       both sides of the issue to come out with a

         7       reasonable solution to a very important issue.

         8                  He's also interested in the

         9       malpractice issue, has committed to follow

        10       through on some of the work that was done

        11       during a prior administration that simply just

        12       didn't get done that can be done because there

        13       was some common ground by people on both sides

        14       of the issue.

        15                  And I think he clearly understands,

        16       having represented both insurance companies

        17       and individuals, that there is not only an

        18       insurance industry in this state but there's a

        19       group of people that buy insurance that have

        20       to be protected against practices that aren't

        21       fair.

        22                  And I feel very good about this

        23       nomination.  But the real reason I'm voting

        24       for him is when I called him back when he



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         1       first called me to talk about his nomination,

         2       I talked to his secretary for some time.  And

         3       she probably knew him the best, and she had

         4       glowing recommendations.  And I felt that if

         5       she really felt this man was a good guy and

         6       was the right person for the job, who would

         7       know better?  So I'm going to vote aye on this

         8       nomination.

         9                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        11       Thanks, Senator DeFrancisco.

        12                  Senator Onorato.

        13                  SENATOR ONORATO:    Thank you,

        14       Mr. President.

        15                  It gives me a great deal of

        16       pleasure to second the nomination of Jim

        17       Wrynn.  Jim Wrynn was one of my district

        18       leaders in the 25th Assembly District when I

        19       represented part of his district.  And I'm

        20       very, very happy now to have the opportunity

        21       of giving him some of my support for all of

        22       the support that you've given me.

        23                  Good luck in your new endeavor.

        24       God bless you and your family.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         2       you, Senator Onorato.

         3                  Senator Duane.

         4                  SENATOR DUANE:    Thank you,

         5       Mr. President.

         6                  I want to congratulate the Governor

         7       on this appointment.  I think that Jim Wrynn

         8       is just an excellent choice.

         9                  These are very challenging times --

        10       very challenging times for the economy, very

        11       challenging times for the insurance industry.

        12       A great many things are undergoing really

        13       enormous change.  And we need a steady hand.

        14       We need someone who really understands this

        15       very important industry to our state

        16       completely and thoroughly, and Jim Wrynn

        17       actually is someone who really fits that bill.

        18                  So I'm -- and not just because

        19       we're from the same part of Queens, but I do

        20       have to comment on that; it's a very fertile

        21       territory for smart people.  But not just for

        22       that reason, I think the Governor has made an

        23       excellent, excellent choice.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank



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         1       you, Senator Duane.

         2                  Senator Smith, to close.

         3                  SENATOR SMITH:    Thank you very

         4       much, Mr. President.

         5                  I just want to rise to congratulate

         6       the Governor on a great selection and to

         7       congratulate you, Senator Breslin, as chair of

         8       Insurance.  I know the work that was done to

         9       bring this nominee forward.

        10                  I do want my good friend Jimmy

        11       Wrynn to know that at times I know he

        12       requested to meet with me.  The only reason

        13       why I didn't is because I knew your

        14       qualifications were so great, I didn't want to

        15       waste public time.

        16                  This is actually a great day for

        17       Queens, if you think about it, Mr. President.

        18       We have Jay Walder, who was born in Rockaway,

        19       and now we have Jimmy Wrynn.  That tells me

        20       for some way that Queens might be soon running

        21       the State of New York the way things are

        22       going.  I'm not sure if that's a good or a bad

        23       thing.

        24                  (Laughter.)



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         1                  SENATOR SMITH:    But again, Jimmy

         2       Wrynn is a well-qualified individual.  The

         3       fact that he is a proud alumni of St. John's,

         4       I'm not going to hold that against him,

         5       because I'm an alumni of Fordham.  But we do

         6       have our relationships between Jesuits and how

         7       they train.

         8                  But this is a good for the state, a

         9       good day for his family.  It has been a long

        10       time coming, is well-deserved.  And I'm just

        11       happy to stand on this floor and be able to be

        12       here the day that Jimmy Wrynn is now going to

        13       be the Superintendent of Insurance for the

        14       great State of New York.

        15                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        17       you very much, Senator Smith.

        18                  And, Jim Wrynn, I would echo the

        19       remarks of all of the speakers that I think

        20       you're going to make an excellent commissioner

        21       and I look forward to working with you very

        22       closely.

        23                  The question is on the motion.  All

        24       those in favor please signify by saying aye.



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         1                  (Response of "Aye.")

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         3       Opposed, nay.

         4                  (No response.)

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         6       motion carries.  The nomination is hereby

         7       confirmed.

         8                  (Standing ovation.)

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    And as

        10       Senator Stavisky indicated, Jim is joined by

        11       his parents, Evelyn and James; his wife,

        12       Maura; and his sons, Kevin and James.

        13                  Welcome.  Congratulations.

        14                  (Applause.)

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        16       Secretary will continue to read.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    As a member of

        18       the Workers' Compensation Board, Konrad W.

        19       Lower, of Brooklyn.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        21       Senator Kruger.

        22                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Please move

        23       the nomination, Mr. President.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The



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         1       question is on the nomination.  All those in

         2       favor please signify by saying aye.

         3                  (Response of "Aye.")

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         5       Opposed, nay.

         6                  (No response.)

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         8       motion carries, and the nomination is hereby

         9       confirmed.

        10                  Congratulations.

        11                  (Applause.)

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        13       chair recognizes Senator Smith.

        14                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes,

        15       Mr. President.  There will be an immediate

        16       meeting of the Finance Committee in the

        17       Majority Conference Room.

        18                  Pending the return of the Finance

        19       Committee, could we please have the Senate

        20       stand at ease.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    There

        22       will be an immediate meeting of the Senate

        23       Finance Committee in the Majority Conference

        24       Room, Room 332.



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         1                  The Senate will stand at ease

         2       pending the report of the Finance Committee.

         3                  (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

         4       ease at 5:51 p.m.)

         5                  (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

         6       at 6:34 p.m.)

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         8       Senator Smith.

         9                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes,

        10       Mr. President.  If we could return to the

        11       order of reports of standing committees, I

        12       believe there is a report of the Finance

        13       Committee at the desk.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        15       Senator Smith, there is a report of the

        16       Finance Committee here at the desk.

        17                  The Secretary will read.  The

        18       Secretary will read the resolutions one at a

        19       time.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

        21       Sampson, Concurrent Resolution Number 3087,

        22       establishing a plan setting forth an itemized

        23       list for grantees for a certain appropriation

        24       for the 2009-2010 state fiscal year for grants



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         1       that are incurred by local government agencies

         2       and/or not-for-profit providers or their

         3       employees providing civil or criminal legal

         4       services; for grants in aid for drug,

         5       violence, and crime control and prevention

         6       programs; and for grants that prevent domestic

         7       violence or aid victims of domestic violence,

         8       as required by subdivision 5 of Section 24 of

         9       the State Finance Law.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Are

        11       there any Senators wishing to be heard on the

        12       resolution?

        13                  The question is on the concurrent

        14       resolution.  Call the roll.

        15                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        17       Announce the results.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

        19       2.  Senators Ranzenhofer and Saland recorded

        20       in the negative.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        22       concurrent resolution is adopted.

        23                  The Secretary will continue to

        24       read.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator Smith,

         2       Concurrent Resolution Number 3088,

         3       establishing a plan setting forth an itemized

         4       list of grantees for certain appropriations

         5       for the 2009-2010 state fiscal year, as

         6       required by subdivision 5 of Section 24 of the

         7       State Finance Law.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         9       question is on the concurrent resolution.

        10       Call the roll.

        11                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        13       Announce the results.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

        15       2.  Senators Ranzenhofer and Saland recorded

        16       in the negative.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        18       concurrent resolution is adopted.

        19                  The Secretary will continue to

        20       read.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator C.

        22       Kruger, Senate Resolution Number 3089,

        23       establishing a plan setting forth an itemized

        24       list of grantees for the New York State



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         1       Economic Development Assistance Program

         2       established pursuant to an appropriation in

         3       the 2008-2009 state fiscal year and in Part QQ

         4       of Chapter 57 of the Laws of 2008.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         6       question is on the concurrent resolution.

         7                  Call the roll.

         8                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        10       Announce the results.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.  Nays,

        12       1.  Senator Ranzenhofer recorded in the

        13       negative.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        15       resolution is adopted.

        16                  The Secretary will continue to

        17       read.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator Smith,

        19       Concurrent Resolution Number 3130 of the

        20       Senate and Assembly, authorizing the Senate

        21       and Assembly of New York State to purchase

        22       copies of the New York Red Book for the

        23       2009-2010 session.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The



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         1       question is on the concurrent resolution.

         2                  Call the roll.

         3                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         5       Announce the results.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.  Nays,

         7       1.  Senator Ranzenhofer recorded in the

         8       negative.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        10       concurrent resolution is adopted.

        11                  The chair recognizes Senator Smith.

        12                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes, thank you,

        13       Mr. President.

        14                  There will be an immediate meeting

        15       of the Rules Committee in the Majority

        16       Conference Room, and I ask that we stand at

        17       ease pending the conclusion of the Rules

        18       Committee.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    There

        20       will be an immediate meeting of the Rules

        21       Committee in the Majority Conference Room,

        22       Room 332.

        23                  The Senate will stand at ease

        24       pending the report of the Rules Committee.



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         1                  (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

         2       ease at 6:39 p.m.)

         3                  (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

         4       at 7:15 p.m.)

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         6       The chair recognizes Senator Smith.

         7                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes, Madam

         8       President.  If we could return to the order of

         9       reports of standing committees, I believe

        10       there's a report of the Rules Committee at the

        11       desk.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        13       Yes, Senator Smith, there is a report of the

        14       Rules Committee here at the desk.

        15                  The Secretary will read.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Smith,

        17       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

        18       following bills:

        19                  Assembly Print 8901, by Member of

        20       the Assembly Silver, an act to amend the

        21       Public Authorities Law;

        22                  Assembly Print 9031, by Member of

        23       the Assembly Cahill, an act to amend a chapter

        24       of the Laws of 2009;



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         1                  Senate Print 6064, by Senator

         2       Squadron, an act to amend the Executive Law;

         3                  And Senate Print 6157, by Senator

         4       Sampson, an act to amend the Legislative Law

         5       and the Public Officers Law.

         6                  All bills ordered direct to third

         7       reading.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         9       Senator Smith.

        10                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes, Madam

        11       President.  I move that we accept the report

        12       of the Rules Committee.

        13                  And are there any substitutions at

        14       the desk?

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        16       All those in favor of adopting the report of

        17       the Rules Committee please signify by saying

        18       aye.

        19                  (Response of "Aye.")

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        21       Opposed, nay.

        22                  (No response.)

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        24       The report of the Rules Committee is adopted.



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         1                  The Secretary will read the

         2       substitution.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

         4       Calendar Number 959, Senator Squadron moves to

         5       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

         6       Assembly Bill Number 9032 and substitute it

         7       for the identical Senate Bill Number 6064,

         8       Third Reading Calendar 959.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        10       Substitution ordered.

        11                  Senator Smith.

        12                  SENATOR SMITH:    Madam President,

        13       I at this time would ask for unanimous consent

        14       and ask that the roll be opened for each of

        15       the four bills on the calendar so that Senator

        16       Huntley can vote on each bill.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        18       The Secretary will read.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        20       960, by Senator Sampson, Senate Print 6157, an

        21       act to amend the Legislative Law and the

        22       Public Officers Law.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        24       Read the last section.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 17.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         4       Call the roll.

         5                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         7       Senator Huntley, how do you vote?

         8                  SENATOR HUNTLEY:    Yes.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        10       Senator Huntley to be recorded in the

        11       affirmative.

        12                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Lay the bill

        13       aside.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        15       The bill is laid aside, and the roll call is

        16       withdrawn.

        17                  The Secretary will read.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        19       959, substituted earlier today by Member of

        20       the Assembly Silver, Assembly Print Number

        21       9032, an act to amend the Executive Law.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        23       Read the last section.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 22.  This



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         1       act shall take effect January 1, 2010.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         3       Call the roll.

         4                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         6       Senator Huntley, how do you vote?

         7                  SENATOR HUNTLEY:    Yes.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         9       Senator Huntley will be recorded in the

        10       affirmative.

        11                  The roll call is withdrawn, and we

        12       will lay the bill aside.

        13                  The Secretary will read.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        15       872, by Member of the Assembly Silver,

        16       Assembly Print Number 8901, an act to amend

        17       the Public Authorities Law.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        19       Read the last section.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        23       Call the roll.

        24                  (The Secretary called the roll.)



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         2       Senator Huntley, how do you vote?

         3                  SENATOR HUNTLEY:    Yes.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         5       Senator Huntley will be recorded in the

         6       affirmative.

         7                  The roll is withdrawn, and the bill

         8       is laid aside.

         9                  The Secretary will read.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        11       877, by Member of the Assembly Cahill,

        12       Assembly Print Number 9031, an act to amend a

        13       chapter of the Laws of 2009 amending the

        14       Public Authorities Law.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        16       Read the last section.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

        18       act shall take effect on the same date and in

        19       the same manner as a chapter of the Laws of

        20       2009.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        22       Call the roll.

        23                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:



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         1       Senator Huntley, how do you vote?

         2                  SENATOR HUNTLEY:    Yes.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         4       Senator Huntley is recorded in the

         5       affirmative.

         6                  The roll is withdrawn, and the bill

         7       is laid aside.

         8                  That concludes the noncontroversial

         9       reading of the calendar.

        10                  Senator Smith.

        11                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes, Madam

        12       President.  First let me thank my colleagues

        13       on the other side of the aisle, Senator Libous

        14       and Senator Skelos, for accommodating one of

        15       our members.  We appreciate that gesture.  And

        16       we just want to wish Senator Huntley well.

        17                  But at this time, Madam President,

        18       could we now go back to the reading of the

        19       noncontroversial calendar.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        21       The Secretary will read.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        23       960, by Senator Sampson, Senate Print 6157, an

        24       act to amend the --



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         1                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Lay it aside,

         2       please.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         4       The bill is laid aside.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         6       959, substituted earlier by Member of the

         7       Assembly Silver, Assembly Print Number 9032,

         8       an act to amend the Executive Law.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        10       Read the last section.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 22.  This

        12       act shall take effect January 1, 2010.

        13                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Lay it aside.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        15       The bill is laid aside.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        17       872, by Member of the Assembly Silver,

        18       Assembly Print Number 8901, an act to amend

        19       the Public Authorities Law.

        20                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Lay it aside.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        22       The bill is laid aside.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        24       877, by Member of the Assembly Cahill,



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         1       Assembly Print Number --

         2                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Lay it aside.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         4       The bill is laid aside.

         5                  Senator Smith, that completes the

         6       reading of the noncontroversial bills.

         7                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes, Madam

         8       President, thank you very much.  At this time

         9       could we please move to the reading of the

        10       controversial calendar.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        12       If the Secretary would please ring the bells,

        13       members are all asked to come to the chamber

        14       for the controversial reading of the bills on

        15       the calendar.

        16                  The Secretary will read.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        18       960, by Senator Sampson, Senate Print 6157, an

        19       act to amend the Legislative Law and the

        20       Public Officers Law.

        21                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Excuse me, Madam

        22       President.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        24       Senator Libous.



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         1                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    We're not

         2       following the agenda, we're doing the Senator

         3       Sampson bill first?  So this is the chapter

         4       amendment that we're doing?  We're on the

         5       chapter amendment?

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         7       Yes.

         8                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Explanation,

         9       Senator Sampson.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        11       Senator Sampson, an explanation is required by

        12       Senator Libous.

        13                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Thank you very

        14       much, Madam President.

        15                  And this is on the chapter

        16       amendment, am I correct?

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        18       It is on the amendment, yes.

        19                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Thank you very

        20       much, Madam President.

        21                  Right now we are at a crossroads,

        22       and the crossroads --

        23                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Madam

        24       President.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         2       Senator LaValle, why do you rise?

         3                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Just a

         4       procedural matter.  We're taking up the

         5       chapter amendment before we take up the main

         6       bill?

         7                  I have not ever, I believe, had

         8       this done in the years I've served in this

         9       chamber, that we've taken up the chapter

        10       amendment first before the main bill.

        11                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Through you,

        12       Madam President, with all due with respect to

        13       Senator LaValle, we did that a couple of weeks

        14       ago when we did the school governance bill, in

        15       which we did the chapter amendments first

        16       before we did the main bill.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        18       Senator Sampson, you were asked for an

        19       explanation.

        20                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Thank you very

        21       much, Madam President.  Just to get to the

        22       body of it.

        23                  As I indicated before, we are at a

        24       crossroads, and that is either the status quo



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         1       or redefining our relationship with the

         2       public.  Everyone knows what has happened a

         3       couple of weeks ago, a couple of months ago,

         4       and there has been an outcry from the public.

         5       And right now I think our theme and our agenda

         6       should be to established decorum back into the

         7       State Senate.  We are the upper house, and we

         8       have to govern and manage that way.

         9                  And as a result of that, today

        10       starts that day.  And I want to start it out

        11       with a chapter amendment.  And this is no more

        12       business as usual.  What this will do will

        13       take a significant step towards furthering

        14       transparency, greater accountability and

        15       personal responsibility.

        16                  I want to tell you a little bit

        17       about what this chapter amendment does.  This

        18       bill makes ethics enforcement more

        19       independent.  Right now what this bill would

        20       do is, one, expand the definition of lobbying

        21       to include resolutions, outcomes or any

        22       actions of either chamber or the outcome of

        23       any official act of the State Legislature.

        24                  Two, create a program of random



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         1       audit review of annual statements of financial

         2       disclosures by the Executive Ethics, the

         3       Compliance Commission, or the Legislative

         4       Office of Ethics Investigations, which is

         5       created in the main body of the bill by

         6       Senator Squadron.

         7                  Also, it requires public officers

         8       to report business dealings with lobbyists and

         9       their clients.  In addition, it requires

        10       annual oversight hearings of joint legislative

        11       commissions on ethics standards by the

        12       appropriate standing committees of the

        13       Legislature.  And this is only for a

        14       three-year term which sunsets after those

        15       three years so we can take a look at it and

        16       see how effective it is.

        17                  This chapter amendment also makes

        18       the following changes to the Election Law

        19       which creates an enforcement unit within the

        20       State Board of Elections.  Right now there is

        21       really no enforcement.  It also increases the

        22       penalty for intentional violations of campaign

        23       finance limits.

        24                  Let me go into the enforcement



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         1       unit.  This enforcement unit will be overseen

         2       by an executive director which will have a

         3       fixed term, a fixed three-year term, which

         4       will appointed by a designating committee

         5       which will consist of nine members, three from

         6       the Governor, one each from the Comptroller's

         7       office and the Attorney General's office, and

         8       one appointed by each leader in both the

         9       Assembly and the Senate.

        10                  This enforcement unit will have the

        11       sole authority to conduct investigations

        12       initiated on its own or upon complaints, but

        13       these complaints must be substantiated.  They

        14       cannot just be an allegation, they need to be

        15       substantiated.

        16                  It also will provide the Board of

        17       Elections with a written recommendation

        18       whether a violation exists.  So once the

        19       enforcement unit finds a violation, they then

        20       have to go to the Board of Elections so the

        21       Board of Elections can look at all the

        22       evidence and make the determination whether it

        23       warrants further investigation or it should be

        24       dismissed.  The state board can, by majority



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         1       vote, direct that this investigation not be

         2       undertaken.  So the Board of Elections can

         3       make that determination that this

         4       investigation cannot continue.

         5                  As with respect to the penalties

         6       for the violation of campaign finance limits,

         7       this increases the penalties for candidates or

         8       committees that accept contributions above the

         9       state limits and increases the amount from

        10       $1,000 to up to $10,000.  It increases

        11       penalties for failure to file financial

        12       disclosures from $500 to $1,000.  And it

        13       requires any persons who contribute two or

        14       more times to a single campaign to report the

        15       name and address of their employer.

        16                  So basically what we're doing here

        17       is letting the public know that we heard the

        18       outcry.  We understand that our commitment and

        19       our allegiance is to the public at large.  And

        20       we undertake this responsibility very

        21       seriously.

        22                  I put forth these amendments to the

        23       underlying bill because what we need to do is

        24       we need to show the people of the State of



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         1       New York that we are serious.  We are here, we

         2       take our jobs seriously and we take our

         3       responsibility to the public seriously.  And

         4       as a result of that, I ask all my colleagues

         5       to join me in support of this.

         6                  Right now when we're in the streets

         7       and we're in our communities, we're not looked

         8       at very highly.  We need to restore that honor

         9       and dignity back to this chamber.  We need to

        10       work together, because we are all colleagues,

        11       and move this chamber in the right direction

        12       not only for the benefit of a Democrat or

        13       Republican, for the benefit of all people of

        14       the State of New York, all 19.5 million

        15       people.

        16                  If there's any questions, Madam

        17       President, you will let me know.  Thank you

        18       very much.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        20       Thank you, Senator Sampson.

        21                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Madam

        22       President.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        24       Senator Padavan.



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         1                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    On the chapter

         2       amendment of the bill yet to be voted on.

         3       First let me say I intend for vote for Senator

         4       Squadron's bill, as I'm sure will most members

         5       of the chamber.  However, as we discussed in

         6       the Rules Committee, there are some concerns

         7       that relate to the chapter amendment before

         8       us.

         9                  My primary concern relates to the

        10       enforcement unit, which, as you described, and

        11       accurately, would end up being seven Democrats

        12       and two Republicans under the current

        13       political climate.  Years from now it could be

        14       just the reverse; who knows.

        15                  If you go back in time and you look

        16       at the Constitution, as was highlighted during

        17       the Rules Committee by one of our colleagues,

        18       enforcement and those things related to

        19       Election Law have always been bipartisan right

        20       down the middle.  And so this enforcement unit

        21       in terms of how it's configured violates that

        22       precept, which I think has been fundamental.

        23                  I agree with you on everything you

        24       said about restoring voter confidence and



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         1       understanding that we are here to serve the

         2       people and not ourselves.  But in the process

         3       I don't think we should be establishing a hit

         4       unit of nine people who on their own, because

         5       to use your own phrase, they can determine on

         6       their own who they're going to investigate.

         7       It isn't the Board of Elections that's going

         8       to direct them to do it; they can do it on

         9       their own, if I heard you correctly.

        10                  So do we need another Troopergate,

        11       another group of individuals who want to make

        12       a name for themselves, who are going to run

        13       around and target on a partisan basis, on a

        14       political basis, certain individuals -- you,

        15       me or anybody in this chamber?  I don't think

        16       we need that.  I think there's a better way to

        17       do it.

        18                  Now, if you feel that the

        19       enforcement capability of the Board of

        20       Elections is inadequate, then I would be happy

        21       to support anything that improves that

        22       ability, either by mandate or by statute or by

        23       resources, whatever is needed so that they can

        24       do an effective job of policing the election



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         1       process, which of course is fundamental to our

         2       democracy.  But to set up this kind of entity

         3       presents, I think, potential problems that we

         4       need not allow to happen.

         5                  Now, the only question I'd like to

         6       ask you, Senator Sampson -- because you did

         7       explain the bill well and completely -- did

         8       the Assembly consider the proposal that you

         9       have before us today in the form of a chapter

        10       amendment?

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        12       Senator Padavan --

        13                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Will the

        14       Senator yield?

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        16       -- are you asking Senator Sampson to yield for

        17       a question?

        18                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Yes.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        20       Senator Sampson, do you yield?

        21                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Yes, I do.  For

        22       Senator Padavan, yes, I do.  And the question

        23       is whether the Assembly --

        24                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    My question,



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         1       Senator, was did the Assembly, when they

         2       deliberated on the bill and passed the bill

         3       that you're amending, did they consider your

         4       proposals as it relates to this enforcement

         5       unit?

         6                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Through you,

         7       Madam President, the Assembly, at that point

         8       in time they were considering, my chapter

         9       amendments were not prepared.  But

        10       subsequently in the last two days I did have a

        11       conversation with the Speaker with respect to

        12       my chapter amendments, and he indicated that

        13       he would present that to his members and see

        14       how they felt with respect to this chapter

        15       amendment.

        16                  But to add on what you were talking

        17       about with respect to the hit unit and the

        18       panel, first of all, the designated panel will

        19       appoint an executive director who will be

        20       responsible for the enforcement unit.

        21       Currently, the enforcement unit that exists in

        22       the Board of Elections consists of two people

        23       with a budget of $200,000, which deals with,

        24       this year presently, over 15,000 disclosure



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         1       forms.

         2                  As a result of that -- through you,

         3       Madam President -- it has not been effective

         4       with respect to its enforcement unit as of to

         5       date.  Through you, Madam President.

         6                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    Well, Senator,

         7       just to finish up here -- I don't want to drag

         8       this out -- I accept what you say, absolutely.

         9       If there's not adequate resources -- I think

        10       I've said this before -- or there are not

        11       enough people to do the job, then let us do it

        12       the right way.  Provide the resources, give

        13       them the people to do the job, monitor what

        14       they do, make whatever changes we want.

        15                  But to set up a nine-member

        16       independent group of enforcers -- and that's

        17       what they're called -- we have a Star Chamber

        18       arrangement here.  And I don't think we want

        19       that.  It's not democratic, it's not

        20       bipartisan, and I think it presents potential

        21       problems that the people of this state don't

        22       need and we certainly don't need.

        23                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Through you,

        24       Madam -- oh, should I respond?  Oh, I'm sorry.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         2       Senator Padavan, that was on the bill?  There

         3       was no question, really.  Okay.

         4                  Senator Volker.

         5                  SENATOR VOLKER:    Madam President,

         6       you know, when Senator Bruno was the majority

         7       leader here, I was always reluctant to vote

         8       against his bills, just as now I'm reluctant

         9       to vote against Senator Sampson's bill.

        10       Obviously, there's a little bit of a

        11       difference.

        12                  But let me just say to you, as

        13       somebody who's been here a few years, I do not

        14       believe -- and I've talked to several

        15       constitutional lawyers already -- I don't

        16       believe this provision would stand up to

        17       scrutiny.  And the reason is that a panel --

        18       and, you know, to argue, well, part of it's

        19       the Governor and part of it is the

        20       Legislature, it's still a partisan panel.

        21                  And, you know, I've had a problem

        22       for some time with the fact that the Governor,

        23       whether it's Pataki or Spitzer or Paterson,

        24       that there seems to be an attitude, well, that



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         1       the Governor should be part of the guide to

         2       ethics for the Legislature.  You know, let's

         3       remember that we just had this investigation.

         4       And although it's being pushed off as nothing,

         5       it wasn't nothing.  It was a serious problem.

         6                  And it seems to me that we have to

         7       be especially careful of partisanship.  And I

         8       know you didn't intend this to be partisan.

         9       But think of it, this agency will have seven

        10       Democrats and two Republicans.  I can imagine

        11       a few years ago, when things were different,

        12       if we ever put a bill out that said even a

        13       little less than seven and two, your side of

        14       the aisle would go crazy and say "You can't do

        15       that."

        16                  The truth is that although I'm

        17       going to vote for the -- expect to vote for

        18       the Squadron bill, but I really think this

        19       is -- and the best way I can put it is this is

        20       overkill.  What needs to be done is a more

        21       fair way to handle it so that we can have

        22       respect for the law.  And I'm not accusing

        23       anybody of doing something to be corrupt or

        24       anything like that.  That's not the issue.



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         1                  You said, and I think you're right,

         2       that we have to do something which reflects

         3       for the confidence of the people out there.  A

         4       vote of seven to two for one political party,

         5       it seems to me, doesn't reflect that

         6       confidence.

         7                  So unfortunately I'm going to have

         8       to vote against this chapter amendment.  And I

         9       would hope that we would be able to work out a

        10       better way to do some sort of enforcement

        11       process so that we don't get ourselves into a

        12       bad ethics problem for the ethics people in

        13       the future.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        15       Thank you, Senator.

        16                  Senator Flanagan.

        17                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes, Madam

        18       President.  Would the sponsor yield?

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        20       Senator Sampson, do you yield?

        21                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Yeah.  For

        22       Senator Flanagan, any time.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        24       Senator.



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         1                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Thank you.  If

         2       he would yield to a series of questions, I

         3       would appreciate that.

         4                  Senator Sampson, I was looking

         5       at -- first of all, listening to the comments,

         6       but looking at the bill, and I have a number

         7       of different questions.  And I'll start on

         8       page 8.  It references when this unit

         9       undertakes their own investigations, it says

        10       on line 13 that if they decide that their

        11       allegation appears to be supported by credible

        12       evidence that they shall publicly report the

        13       intent to commence an investigation to the

        14       State Board of Elections no later than the

        15       board's next scheduled meeting.

        16                  But then it goes on to say that you

        17       maintain the confidentiality of the

        18       complainant -- which doesn't necessarily have

        19       to be the case because they can do this on

        20       their own -- and the individual subject of the

        21       complaint.

        22                  It seems to me that -- I don't know

        23       how you can do both.  You're going to publicly

        24       report everything that's going on, but then



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         1       you're potentially going to redact the people

         2       who are going to be involved.  Is that your

         3       understanding?  Is that your intention?

         4                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    You say at line

         5       13?

         6                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes.

         7                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Through you,

         8       Madam President, that is the intent.  And the

         9       names of the candidates or those in question

        10       will be redacted or deleted.

        11                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    So the cases

        12       will be reported, but no one will know the

        13       names of the parties involved?

        14                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Correct.

        15                  And the reason that is -- through

        16       you, Madam President -- if you go down, from

        17       line 19 through 34 on page 8 it talks about

        18       once they do their investigation they then

        19       have to go to the Board of Elections, who then

        20       review the information that they have

        21       provided.  At that point in time, based upon

        22       their review, the Board of Elections

        23       determines whether it amounts to a violation.

        24       If it does, then they will continue with



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         1       another investigation.  But if it doesn't, at

         2       that point in time the board has the option,

         3       by majority vote -- which I think presently

         4       consists of two Democrats and two Republicans,

         5       which have to have a majority vote in order

         6       for it either, one, to continue or to dismiss.

         7                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Right.  But

         8       this is a fundamental change in that now this

         9       is going to be publicly reported even if the

        10       board ultimately comes to a stalemate or

        11       decides not to take any action or to take

        12       action.  So this is a very basic change.

        13                  But I do have another question in

        14       particular on page -- well, let me say this.

        15       Section 3-104 of the Election Law is

        16       fundamentally repealed, and it specifically

        17       states that in your legislation.  And I'm not

        18       sure that that was the intention here because,

        19       if I read the statute correctly, you are on

        20       the one hand trying to beef up the enforcement

        21       powers and the enforcement actions by the

        22       State Board of Elections --

        23                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Right.

        24                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    -- but you are



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         1       taking away one of their core charges, if you

         2       will, by now repealing their ability to bring

         3       criminal actions.  Why would you do that?

         4                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Through you,

         5       Madam President, I would like to yield to my

         6       colleague Senator Schneiderman, who is more

         7       familiar with the repealing of Section 3-104

         8       of the Election Law.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        10       Senator Schneiderman.

        11                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

        12       Madam President.  I appreciate Senator

        13       Sampson's leadership on this issue, and I do

        14       hope that after our discussion here today my

        15       colleagues on the other side of the aisle will

        16       see that it would be a big mistake not to

        17       support this legislation that substantially

        18       increases the authority of all relevant

        19       entities to enforce meaningful ethics laws for

        20       us.

        21                  But as far as that goes, Senator

        22       Flanagan's question.  The section of this bill

        23       that you're referring to actually says that

        24       while the old section is repealed, a new



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         1       section is enacted.  And I'm referring to

         2       page 6, line 19.  Section 3-104 of the

         3       Election Law is repealed and a new Section

         4       3-104 is added.  So it doesn't just repeal it,

         5       it adds a new section.

         6                  And let me read to you from one of

         7       the provisions in that new section.  This is

         8       at page 7, line 49.  "Nothing in this

         9       section" -- the new Section 3-104 -- shall be

        10       construed to diminish or alter the State Board

        11       of Elections' jurisdiction pursuant to this

        12       chapter."

        13                  So I've heard this argument that

        14       this somehow diminishes the statutory power of

        15       the Board of Elections by repealing 3-104.  It

        16       enacts a new 3-104 that explicitly states it

        17       does not diminish the board's power, nor can

        18       it because other sections of the Election

        19       Law -- 3-102, 3-107 and others -- provide

        20       explicit powers to the Board of Elections for

        21       enforcement.

        22                  The problem we face now is not a

        23       lack of authority, and the authority is not

        24       diminished in any way by Senator Sampson's



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         1       bill.  The problem is that we don't have

         2       functional enforcement.  Senator Sampson's

         3       bill as discussed would provide for an

         4       enforcement unit so that our laws can be

         5       meaningfully enforced.

         6                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Madam

         7       President, would Senator Schneiderman yield?

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         9       Senator Schneiderman, do you yield for a

        10       question?

        11                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Yes, I'd

        12       be happy to yield, Madam President.

        13                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    We can read

        14       the bill in its entirety, we can read it in

        15       its parts.  But I'm referencing the specific

        16       language of the bill that says Section 3-104,

        17       as we know it presently, is repealed.

        18                  So when you get rid of that

        19       section, I don't care what you put after it.

        20       Those powers that heretofore existed are now

        21       gone.  So the criminal enforcement power

        22       pursuant to that section no longer exists.

        23       And when you talk about creating a new

        24       Section 3-140, you don't provide the same



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         1       powers.  The State Board of Elections will not

         2       have those powers under this bill.

         3                  No matter how you slice it, the

         4       bottom line is they're not going to have the

         5       same powers that they have.  This enforcement

         6       unit has a different set of responsibilities,

         7       opportunities, depending upon one's

         8       perspective.  But the reality is that that

         9       power that we have previously granted to the

        10       board for a quite substantial period of time

        11       is now gone.

        12                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Do I hear

        13       a question?

        14                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    So my question

        15       is, how can you say that nothing diminishes

        16       that power?  If you don't want it diminished,

        17       why did you repeal the section?

        18                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

        19       you, Madam President.  You can't say you're

        20       repealing Section 3-104 -- oh, my goodness,

        21       it's gone -- without looking at the sentence.

        22       It states "Section 3-104 of the Election Law

        23       is repealed and a new Section 3-104 is added."

        24       And the new Section 3-104 explicitly preserves



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         1       every existing grant of authority to the Board

         2       of Elections.

         3                  And I can note for Senator Flanagan

         4       some of those grants of authority that are

         5       preserved, including Election Law Section

         6       3-107, which states:  "Authority is hereby

         7       conferred upon the State Board of Elections

         8       to," and it lists a lot of things -- appoint

         9       investigators; to have the power to issue

        10       subpoenas, subpoenas duces tecum; it

        11       authorizes all forms of investigation.

        12                  Section 3-102 of the State Board of

        13       Elections, explicitly preserved under the new

        14       Section 3-104 in Senator Sampson's bill,

        15       authorizes the State Board of Elections to

        16       conduct any investigation necessary to carry

        17       out the provisions of the Election Law.

        18                  So this is a correction in a

        19       statute that is somewhat redundant.  But it

        20       explicitly states -- and again, I will read to

        21       Senator Flanagan from Senator Sampson's bill:

        22       "Nothing in this section shall be construed to

        23       diminish or alter the State Board of

        24       Elections' jurisdiction pursuant to this



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         1       chapter," "this chapter" being the Election

         2       Law.

         3                  So you can pretend that this

         4       diminishes the power because it changes the

         5       way Section 3-104 operates, but it explicitly

         6       states -- and when we were working on this, we

         7       wanted to ensure that it was crystal-clear

         8       that nothing in this section would diminish or

         9       alter the State Board of Elections'

        10       jurisdiction, so we wrote "Nothing in this

        11       section shall be construed to diminish or

        12       alter the State Board of Elections'

        13       jurisdiction."  I don't know how much clearer

        14       we can get, Madam President.

        15                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Madam

        16       President, would Senator Schneiderman continue

        17       to yield?

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        19       Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to

        20       yield?

        21                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    With

        22       pleasure.

        23                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Senator

        24       Schneiderman, who is the proverbial "we" in



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         1       this case?  This is a one-house bill.  Senator

         2       Sampson referenced that he has had a

         3       conversation with the Speaker of the Assembly.

         4       Has this bill been negotiated with the

         5       Governor?  Then has it been negotiated with

         6       the Board of Elections?  Has anyone had any

         7       meetings with them?  Are there any memorandums

         8       in support or opposition?

         9                  And I realize I asked you several

        10       questions, but I'd like to get a sense of is

        11       this a one-team negotiation internally with

        12       the Senate Democrats or has this been vetted

        13       with all the parties?

        14                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Well, this

        15       particular legislation is Senator Sampson's

        16       bill, and it was drafted by our conference.

        17                  But I would note that this

        18       particular language that you're concerned

        19       about came from an Assembly bill that was

        20       drafted a couple of years ago and then was

        21       readopted in a Governor's program bill.

        22                  I want to note that the context for

        23       this discussion really is very, very

        24       important.  During -- you know, and I guess in



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         1       Ireland they refer to them as the troubles.

         2       During the troubles we had earlier this

         3       summer, the Assembly, without engaging in

         4       discussions with us -- because I suppose they

         5       thought we were otherwise occupied -- passed

         6       the Silver bill which we will be addressing

         7       also tonight, the Silver-Squadron bill, which

         8       in the view of many of us really does not get

         9       the job done when it comes to advancing the

        10       cause of ethics in the State Legislature.  It

        11       is a tremendously modest step.  A lot of us

        12       felt that this provides a very low floor.

        13                  We're coming back, we're now

        14       getting back to doing business in the Senate,

        15       Senator Sampson has called us back together to

        16       undertake some of the unfinished business that

        17       was left over after the problems we had

        18       earlier this summer.  He said, "We want to do

        19       ethics reform.  We want to raise the bar and

        20       send the message that we are going to continue

        21       the effort at reform and we are going to make

        22       this a more transparent and more accountable

        23       body and that we are going to have real

        24       enforcement."  And there are provisions



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         1       throughout this bill that deal with the issue

         2       of enforcement.

         3                  So when we looked at the

         4       Silver-Squadron bill -- and "we" just being

         5       people who are working on ethics issues here

         6       in the Senate -- Senator Sampson essentially

         7       said, "Look, we've got to do better.  We've

         8       got to raise the bar.  We have to do better."

         9       The Silver-Squadron bill is not enough.  No

        10       disrespect to Senator Squadron; I think he

        11       agrees with me that that provides a floor.

        12                  This bill goes substantially

        13       further in the ways that Senator Sampson has

        14       enumerated.  This provides for real

        15       enforcement, real transparency.  And I would

        16       urge you that this section in particular is

        17       absolutely essential because right now we have

        18       no functional enforcement by the Board of

        19       Elections.

        20                  So this is something that for the

        21       moment is a one-house bill.  But it builds on

        22       the legislation that passed the Assembly.  But

        23       let's be clear.  To me and to a lot of the

        24       other folks here the bill that passed the



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         1       Assembly is not acceptable.  We cannot walk

         2       away from Albany this year and say we have

         3       done ethics reform if all we've done is pass

         4       the Silver-Squadron bill.

         5                  We've got to pass the Sampson bill

         6       as well, take it back to the Assembly, sending

         7       the message that I hear some of my colleagues

         8       on the other side of the aisle asking us to

         9       send, that we have moved beyond what the

        10       Assembly did.  We are challenging the Assembly

        11       to take a further step in ethics reform.

        12                  We want real enforcement.  We don't

        13       want to have two people reviewing 15,000

        14       documents.  Everybody here knows this.

        15       There's no functional enforcement of the

        16       Election Law here.  The fines are ridiculously

        17       low.  This would raise the fines.  The review

        18       doesn't take place, it can't take place,

        19       because over the decades we weren't in charge,

        20       the Board of Elections was systematically

        21       defunded by the Legislature.

        22                  We're looking to turn that around

        23       and have real enforcement, and that's what

        24       this provision does.  And I assure you that



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         1       while we are editing the statute, there is no

         2       intention here in this bill to reduce the

         3       authority of the Board of Elections in any

         4       way, shape or form.

         5                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Okay.  Madam

         6       President, would Senator Schneiderman continue

         7       to yield?

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         9       Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to

        10       yield?

        11                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I would

        12       yield with pleasure to Senator Flanagan.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        14       The Senator yields.

        15                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Four direct

        16       and specific questions.  Has this bill been

        17       formally negotiated with the Governor, this

        18       chapter amendment?

        19                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Formally

        20       negotiated?  What does that mean?

        21                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    You said it's

        22       in a Governor's program bill.  Have you had

        23       meetings?  If this bill passes the Assembly do

        24       you have any representation that the Governor



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         1       will sign this bill?

         2                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    John?  Let

         3       me yield to Senator Sampson on that.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         5       Senator Sampson.

         6                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Through you,

         7       Madam President, I haven't had any discussions

         8       with respect to the Governor, whether he would

         9       sign this bill or not.

        10                  But I have had -- through you,

        11       Madam President -- discussion with the

        12       Speaker, who said he would bring it to his

        13       conference.  And he indicated to me that he

        14       liked the idea.

        15                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    And given the

        16       nature of the State Board of Elections and

        17       certainly all the people we know over there,

        18       have they been involved in the negotiations on

        19       this bill?

        20                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Through you,

        21       Madam President, no.

        22                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Specifically,

        23       I don't mean to play Ping-Pong here, but I

        24       think my question goes to Senator



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         1       Schneiderman.  Senator Schneiderman, you

         2       referenced there should be no diminution of

         3       power to the State Board of Elections.  I want

         4       to ask you specifically, under Section 3-104,

         5       I'll read one provision.

         6                  "If after an investigation the

         7       State or other Board of Elections finds

         8       reasonable cause to believe that a violation

         9       warranting criminal prosecution has taken

        10       place, it shall forthwith refer the matter to

        11       the district attorney of the appropriate

        12       county and shall make available to such

        13       district attorney all the relevant papers,

        14       documents, et cetera."

        15                  As an interpreter of this bill, I

        16       want to see what we're putting on the record

        17       here.  Is it your clear point that that power

        18       will still exist if this bill becomes law?

        19       Even though you have language in here

        20       specifically repealing it.

        21                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Yes.

        22       Through you, Madam President, I have attempted

        23       to be as clear as I could be.  Yes.  The

        24       answer is yes, the State Board of Elections



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         1       still has the authority that it has now.

         2                  Again, nothing in this section

         3       shall be construed to diminish or alter the

         4       State Board of Elections' jurisdiction

         5       pursuant to this chapter.

         6                  And I would also suggest that there

         7       are other provisions in the Election Law that

         8       essentially reiterate that authority.

         9                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Right.  But

        10       they don't get repealed, Senator Schneiderman.

        11                  Madam President, will Senator

        12       Schneiderman continue to yield for one more

        13       question?

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        15       Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to

        16       yield?

        17                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Yes, Madam

        18       President.

        19                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Senator

        20       Schneiderman, thank you for yielding.

        21                  Last question.  You referenced the

        22       gross lack of enforcement through the State

        23       Board of Elections and talked about the need

        24       for enhancing that.  Can you show me in this



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         1       bill where there's enhanced funding for the

         2       enforcement unit, this new unit at the State

         3       Board of Elections?  And if so, how much is

         4       it?

         5                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

         6       you, Madam President, this is not an

         7       appropriation bill.  But this does create the

         8       structure for enforcement.

         9                  And I would like to note, Madam

        10       President, that there's been -- there has been

        11       some discussion of the nature of this

        12       enforcement unit that I think is a little bit

        13       misleading.  This sets up an enforcement unit

        14       that is subject to the supervision of the

        15       Board of Elections.  The fact that --

        16                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Madam

        17       President, excuse me.  My question is -- I

        18       understand that.  I'm specifically on the

        19       appropriation, just directly if there's any

        20       appropriation.

        21                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Madam

        22       President, if I might be allowed to finish.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        24       Senator Schneiderman, continue your answer.



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         1                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    I stated

         2       that there is no appropriation here.  But I

         3       would respectfully suggest that the current

         4       structure of the Board of Elections makes it

         5       very, very difficult for enforcement to take

         6       place even if we were to provide additional

         7       funding.

         8                  This provides a mechanism through

         9       which we can provide specific funding in a

        10       future appropriation, not just give it to the

        11       board generally.  And it provides for an

        12       enforcement unit that I would like to point

        13       out to my colleague is subject to the

        14       supervision of the Board of Elections.

        15                  The issue has been raised that oh,

        16       this would be some sort of a partisan unit.

        17       The panel, which is really -- it's a

        18       government panel, and the fact that the

        19       government officials who have been elected

        20       statewide happen right now to be Democrats

        21       doesn't make them any less government actors.

        22       All that panel does is designate the executive

        23       director.

        24                  The conduct of the investigations



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         1       and the action of this enforcement unit is

         2       still subject to the supervision of the Board

         3       of Elections that no matter how skewed the

         4       registration numbers and how low the

         5       registration of Republicans might be in this

         6       state, they still get 50/50 power in the Board

         7       of Elections.  So actually I think that

         8       there's kind of an edge that they're getting

         9       there.

        10                  So this sets up a framework that

        11       enables us to do an appropriation to provide

        12       for an effective government enforcement

        13       mechanism in the Board of Elections where for

        14       decades there has not been effective

        15       enforcement.  And my colleagues have said, oh,

        16       we would support other things.  You know,

        17       we've been here for 43, 44 years of them being

        18       in power in the Senate; we have yet never seen

        19       any effort like this, like Senator Sampson's

        20       bill, to provide for effective, meaningful

        21       enforcement.

        22                  And I would urge Senator Flanagan

        23       that while this is not an appropriation bill,

        24       I would certainly hope that we will have his



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         1       support when the budget comes around.  Because

         2       I do believe once we challenge them, the

         3       Assembly will have to act on this and the

         4       Governor will sign it, or something similar to

         5       it.  And we do want his support for the

         6       appropriation when the time comes during the

         7       budget to fund this unit.

         8                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Thank you.

         9                  Madam President, would Senator

        10       Sampson yield?

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        12       Senator Sampson, do you yield for a question?

        13                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Yes, I do.

        14                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    We have moved

        15       to the issue of appropriation.  And part of

        16       the reason I asked Senator Schneiderman

        17       specifically on the enforcement unit is

        18       because I'm looking at your legislation; in

        19       particular, your memorandum in support.  There

        20       are four specific appropriations in your

        21       memorandum that reference 7.5 percent to

        22       New York State Commission on Lobbying and

        23       Ethics, 7.5 percent to the Executive Ethics

        24       and Compliance Commission -- and that comes



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         1       from the Department of State budget.  And then

         2       from the State Senate General Fund, 1 percent

         3       to the Joint Legislative Commission on Ethics

         4       Standards and 1 percent to the Legislative

         5       Office of Ethics Investigation.  So I have

         6       several questions if Senator Sampson would

         7       yield.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         9       Senator Sampson, do you yield for several

        10       questions?

        11                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Yes, I do.

        12       Through you, Madam President.

        13                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Before I get

        14       to these specifically, while those four are

        15       clearly lined out or laid out in your

        16       legislation, why was funding for the Board of

        17       Elections not included?  If these others were

        18       so important, why was funding not included for

        19       the board?

        20                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Through you,

        21       Madam President, I think it was very important

        22       to make sure that when there is money given to

        23       the Board of Elections at this point in time

        24       those groups or those organizations are



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         1       specifically lined out to substantiate what

         2       we're trying to do with respect to this

         3       legislation.  Through you, Madam President.

         4                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Madam

         5       President, would Senator Sampson continue to

         6       yield?

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         8       Do you continue to yield, Senator Sampson?

         9                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Yes, I do,

        10       Madam President.

        11                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    In reading

        12       this legislation, it talks about an

        13       appropriation coming from the Department of

        14       State, 7.5 percent and 7.5 percent.  So

        15       15 percent of their budget is now going to

        16       these two new entities.

        17                  I have a two-part question.  How

        18       much money is that?  And how is the hole going

        19       to be backfilled in the Department of State or

        20       what's going to have to be cut as a result of

        21       the shift of these appropriations?

        22                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Through you,

        23       Madam President.  To answer Senator Flanagan's

        24       question, first of all, it depends, one, on



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         1       the issue of how much money is allocated.  And

         2       at that point in time, working with those

         3       organizations to make sure the allocation will

         4       be appropriate at that point in time, thus not

         5       impacting substantially those organizations

         6       which we're taking the money from.  Through

         7       you, Madam President.

         8                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    And my last

         9       question on the appropriation, it speaks to

        10       the State Senate fund.  I think I know the

        11       answer to this, but I'm not sure.

        12                  If this is a joint commission and

        13       it's a legislative entity and there are two of

        14       them now that are each going to get 1 percent,

        15       why is the Assembly not paying for this?  Why

        16       is this coming out of the Senate

        17       appropriation?

        18                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Through you,

        19       Madam President, since as my colleague said

        20       this is a -- discussion hasn't been dealt with

        21       with respect to the Assembly and it's

        22       characterized as a one-house bill now, that is

        23       a conversation that it will have with the

        24       Speaker as to making sure that the Assembly



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         1       allocate or appropriate some funds with

         2       respect to this important legislation.

         3                  So through you, Madam President,

         4       once the Assembly picks this up, there will be

         5       a request from me to the Speaker to ask that

         6       there is a certain appropriation from the

         7       Assembly with respect to these underlying

         8       amendments.

         9                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Madam

        10       President, I would just respectfully add one

        11       comment to what Senator Sampson said,

        12       following up on the advice of Senator

        13       Schneiderman that one of the ways we'll get

        14       the Assembly to act is by forcing their hand.

        15       If we send them the bill and they don't have

        16       to put anything in here, they could just pass

        17       this bill as is and say you guys are going to

        18       suck up the whole cost here.  So I would just

        19       offer that as food for thought.

        20                  And on the bill, Madam President.

        21       Thank you to Senator Sampson and Senator

        22       Schneiderman.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        24       Senator Flanagan, on the bill.



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         1                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    I realize

         2       these questions are tedious, but I think they

         3       are very important.  We are talking about a

         4       number of different issues.

         5                  I have great respect for Senator

         6       Schneiderman's intellect.  I just don't happen

         7       to agree on this provision.  Because I just

         8       look and think as a first-year law student you

         9       would read and say Section 3-104 is repealed.

        10       I don't know how you then can say the power

        11       still exists.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I think

        12       that's going to be something that will lead to

        13       litigation.

        14                  On the money, we have real issues

        15       that we need to deal with.  Based on the

        16       appropriations that exist now -- not in the

        17       future budget, but that exist now -- my

        18       calculations are that about $3.4 million would

        19       be needed for the Commission on Lobbying

        20       Ethics and the Executive Ethics and Compliance

        21       Commission.  And I'm not sure how that money

        22       is going to be spent.  I don't know how much

        23       money is being spent right now.

        24                  But since the representations are



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         1       being made that roughly $3.4 million at least

         2       are now going to be spent and taken out of the

         3       Department of State's budget, we have two

         4       problems.  Number one, how is the money going

         5       to be spent?  And number two, how is the

         6       Department of State going to prepare their

         7       budget for next year -- because you know

         8       they're coming back and the first thing

         9       they're going to say is, Ladies and gentlemen,

        10       you took 15 percent of our budget, what are we

        11       supposed to do?

        12                  And the last part is we're giving

        13       roughly $2 million out of the Senate budget,

        14       and I don't think we know how that money is

        15       going to be spent.  Are we going to have an

        16       executive director who makes $300,000?  Is the

        17       person going to make $80,000?  Are there going

        18       to be 10 staff, 15 staff?  Those are issues

        19       that are very important because this is unique

        20       and new and certainly very different

        21       legislation.

        22                  I heed the words of my colleague

        23       Senator Schneiderman, but I must tell you --

        24       and it's probably no surprise to you, Madam



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         1       President -- I will not be supporting this

         2       legislation.  Thank you.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         4       Thank you, Senator Flanagan.

         5                  Are there any other Senators

         6       wishing to be heard on the bill?

         7                  Senator Squadron.

         8                  SENATOR SQUADRON:    Thank you very

         9       much, Madam President.

        10                  As the second sponsor on this

        11       chapter amendment and the sponsor of the

        12       underlying bill, I wanted to rise and thank

        13       Senator Sampson for his leadership on this,

        14       Senator Schneiderman, others in the Senate,

        15       others of my colleagues who have worked to

        16       create this bill that, together with the

        17       underlying bill that I carry, creates

        18       comprehensive ethics reform that isn't just

        19       window dressing, isn't some pie in the sky

        20       one-house.

        21                  This is a realistic framework that

        22       the Assembly drew up originally that improves

        23       legislative ethics, with independent

        24       legislative ethics -- we'll get to that --



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         1       executive ethics, lobbying.  And with this

         2       bill, campaign finance.  And in fact for those

         3       of us who are worried, as we all are right

         4       now, about the fiscal health of the state,

         5       with random reviews of the disclosure

         6       statements, probably the single most efficient

         7       way to create good and meaningful enforcement

         8       as an improvement to the underlying bill.

         9                  This, with the underlying bill

        10       together, is a great, great package.  And I'd

        11       like to just point out in addition to the

        12       random reviews, in addition to the Board of

        13       Elections enforcement we've talked about,

        14       there's also increased disclosure here on

        15       relationships between any of us, any members

        16       of the Executive with lobbyists.  And together

        17       with the underlying bill, that creates a real

        18       belt-and-suspenders ways of way of handling

        19       any business relationships with lobbyists we

        20       have to deal with.

        21                  In response to Senator Padavan's

        22       concern about this bill that somehow -- I

        23       think he referred to it as a Star Chamber, a

        24       partisan Star Chamber is created, I would



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         1       point out that the group he is talking about

         2       in this bill, this nominating panel, has but

         3       one purpose, and that is to be an independent

         4       appointor of an executive director who serves

         5       a fixed term.  It is the single best way to

         6       have an independent appointment of an

         7       executive director serving a fixed term.

         8                  After that point, this enforcement

         9       unit -- which is an enforcement unit, and

        10       that's a good thing.  It has the power to

        11       enforce campaign finance violations.  That's a

        12       good thing.  This executive director, this

        13       enforcement unit answer to the Board of

        14       Elections, work with the Board of Elections.

        15                  We have put in here an odd number

        16       of folks, which is critical.  As we all know

        17       with the Board of Elections too often you

        18       can't get to a majority because it's an even

        19       number.  So we have created an odd number of

        20       people independently appointed, an independent

        21       group to create an executive director.  That

        22       is a necessary component.  To claim that that

        23       somehow invalidates this package is simply not

        24       accurate and simply not fair.



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         1                  So I am proud to support this

         2       chapter amendment and hope that we can move

         3       comprehensive ethics legislation out of this

         4       house this very evening.

         5                  Thank you, Madam President.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         7       Thank you, Senator.

         8                  Senator L. Krueger.

         9                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Excuse me,

        10       I was up when Senator Squadron was speaking.

        11       I was going to ask him a question, if he would

        12       yield.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        14       I apologize, I didn't see you.

        15                  Senator DeFrancisco, why do you

        16       rise?

        17                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Would

        18       Senator Squadron yield to a question?

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        20       Senator Squadron, will you yield?

        21                  SENATOR SQUADRON:    I'd be honored

        22       to.

        23                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    With your

        24       comments a moment ago, you said this



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         1       enforcement group reports to the Board of

         2       Elections, and you said works with.  You

         3       hastened to add "works with."  What is it?

         4       There's a significant difference between

         5       reporting to a Board of Elections, which

         6       presumably would be the ultimate authority,

         7       and works with.  What is it?

         8                  SENATOR SQUADRON:    Right.  Well,

         9       through you, Madam President, it is an

        10       independent enforcement unit.  So while it

        11       does report to the Board of Elections, it does

        12       not work under the Board of Elections.  And I

        13       thought the term "reports to" was a little

        14       ambiguous there, which is why I corrected it.

        15                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Thank you.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        17       Thank you, Senator.

        18                  Senator L. Krueger.

        19                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        20       Well, I've enjoyed the debate -- I hope

        21       everyone has -- but I want to, I don't know,

        22       put it more into common language.

        23                  Senator Sampson's chapter amendment

        24       is an attempt to very simply and I think



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         1       elegantly build in ethics reforms that we need

         2       in this state.  I know we've gotten a little

         3       obsessed about the Board of Elections

         4       enforcement unit, but here's the part that

         5       stuck with me.  We don't have any enforcement

         6       unit in the Board of Elections now.

         7                  We have thousands and thousands of

         8       filings -- the entire model of New York

         9       State's campaigns and elections are that you

        10       file information with the Board of Elections,

        11       it's supposed to be publicly accessible and

        12       available, and there's supposed to be a belief

        13       by the public that those of us who are

        14       involved in elections, both candidates and

        15       political action committees and donors to

        16       campaigns, are all following the law.  And yet

        17       if you don't have enforcement or a mechanism

        18       for enforcement, it's not clear to me you can

        19       ever assure the public that the laws are being

        20       followed.

        21                  And when I read that in 2007 the

        22       enforcement unit received 165 complaints

        23       alleging violations of the Election Law but

        24       were only able to investigate 45, well, if I'm



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         1       the public, I'm saying "What's going on here?"

         2       You're not even following up on the complaints

         3       that are made by people who believe there's

         4       been a violation.

         5                  The concept of having an audit and

         6       a review of some number of the campaign

         7       filings each year as a standard, we would

         8       expect all that in any state contract.  We

         9       expect that in monies that we distribute

        10       through our state agencies and contracts to

        11       our state agencies.

        12                  So the concept to me that perhaps

        13       the most fundamental, most fundamental issue

        14       in democracy in our state -- elections -- has

        15       no enforcement model, has no audit evaluation

        16       process, that's scary to me.

        17                  So I agree we can all have

        18       differences of opinion about exactly what can

        19       be done or what should be done.  And yes,

        20       right now, tonight, it's Senator Sampson

        21       having a chapter amendment.  And yes, that

        22       means it will go through a process with the

        23       Assembly and with the Governor before it

        24       becomes law.



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         1                  So actually I'm pretty excited to

         2       hear some of the concerns raised, because

         3       let's get it right.  And we have the time to

         4       get it right.  But we want to start the ball

         5       rolling because it's way too late in the game

         6       for us to be questioning whether we need

         7       ethics reform in Albany.

         8                  And so if the Senate is the first

         9       one out of the box with a bigger and better

        10       model for ethics reform, that's terrific and

        11       I'm thrilled that I'm going to have a chance

        12       to vote yes.  But again, most of us focused

        13       our discussion on the details of who would be

        14       the Board of Elections, who would be the

        15       enforcement unit, who would pick the executive

        16       director, how many people would be on the

        17       committee deciding that, what would be their

        18       party makeup.

        19                  Again, just to highlight, several

        20       of my colleagues, when they were raising

        21       concerns about this chapter amendment,

        22       actually said they were prepared to vote for

        23       the underlying bill, which we haven't gotten

        24       to yet.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         2       Senator DeFrancisco, why do you rise?

         3                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I'm just

         4       going to ask if Senator Krueger would yield to

         5       a question.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         7       Senator Krueger, do you yield?

         8                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    I would

         9       love to if I could just finish the last

        10       sentence and thought that I was on.  Then I

        11       would certainly answer your question, Senator.

        12                  Several of my colleagues said they

        13       were going to be comfortable voting for the

        14       underlying bill but had concerns about this

        15       chapter amendment because of the makeup of the

        16       panel that will decide the executive director.

        17       And I just want to highlight for us, realizing

        18       in the underlying Senator Squadron bill we

        19       create an Executive Ethics and Compliance

        20       Commission made up of six members, two to be

        21       appointed by the Governor, two by the

        22       Comptroller, and two by the Attorney General,

        23       which right now, by statistical accident,

        24       would be all Democratic appointments.  But



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         1       that's passed in a bipartisan way in the

         2       Assembly, and I think a number of my

         3       colleagues didn't raise concerns about that.

         4                  And that same bill creates a State

         5       Commission on Lobbying and Ethics Compliance,

         6       and that includes six members, two appointed

         7       by a Governor -- who happens to be

         8       Democratic -- and one each by each of the four

         9       legislative leaders.  So again, by accident of

        10       politics and time, at this moment in history

        11       would in fact be four Democrats and two

        12       Republicans.

        13                  But again, most people actually, I

        14       think, who have talked about this bill and

        15       reviewed this bill are comfortable with that

        16       reality, so they're not particularly worried

        17       about who are the partisan makeup.  They're

        18       much more interested in what's the jobs all

        19       these people are going to be doing.

        20                  And while I'm not done with my

        21       statement, now I'm happy to yield to questions

        22       from Senator DeFrancisco.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        24       Senator DeFrancisco.



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         1                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Thank you,

         2       Senator.

         3                  You were talking about how we need

         4       ethics reform and we've got to have a way to

         5       have ethics reform, and I was going to ask

         6       you, but you just mentioned it, isn't there a

         7       commission established in the Squadron bill

         8       that apparently would be satisfactory to

         9       Senator Squadron as to how to monitor the

        10       ethics rules that are contained in his bill?

        11                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Well,

        12       again, I could yield to Senator Squadron,

        13       which I will.  But I believe I just heard him

        14       say he supported the chapter amendments in

        15       addition to the underlying bill.  So Senator

        16       Squadron -- I guess I should point out to you,

        17       Madam President --

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        19       You'd like to yield to Senator Squadron?

        20                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I'll just

        21       speak on the bill.  It's pretty obvious --

        22                  SENATOR SQUADRON:    -- agree that

        23       I may answer his question, which was about my

        24       view.



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         1                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Sure,

         2       absolutely.  Absolutely.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         4       Please, Senator Squadron.

         5                  SENATOR SQUADRON:    Thank you,

         6       Senator.  I appreciate it.

         7                  As I said and as you noticed -- I'm

         8       not sure if you have a copy of the bill -- but

         9       I am in fact the prime cosponsor -- I don't

        10       actually have that term -- the first cosponsor

        11       of the chapter amendment.  Senator Sampson and

        12       I and others worked very closely on it.

        13                  I actually think the underlying

        14       bill moves the ball down the field.  I think

        15       that with this it moves the ball down the

        16       field so we get a first down.

        17                  And so having the Board of

        18       Elections enforcement in there, having the

        19       random reviews in there, having the disclosure

        20       of the lobbyist relationships in there is what

        21       makes this package a great package all in all.

        22                  And so I think the underlying bill

        23       begins the conversation.  I think with the

        24       chapter amendment you have what you need.



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         1                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    So the

         2       answer is yes?

         3                  SENATOR SQUADRON:    The answer is

         4       that the package overall does exactly what I

         5       think the state needs.  And there are gaps --

         6       and there are gaps without it.

         7                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Would

         8       Senator Krueger yield to another question?

         9       Because it got diverted to a different answer.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        11       Senator Krueger, do you yield?

        12                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Certainly,

        13       Senator DeFrancisco.

        14                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    There is in

        15       the Squadron bill, as you aptly pointed out, a

        16       commission that would be in charge of

        17       enforcing the rules in the Squadron bill.

        18       Correct?

        19                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    There are

        20       three entities in the Squadron bill, an

        21       Executive Ethics and Compliance Commission,

        22       which also doesn't address Board of Elections

        23       enforcement; a State Commission on Lobbying

        24       and Ethics Compliance, which also, as written



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         1       in the underlying bill, does not address Board

         2       of Elections enforcement; and then a Joint

         3       Legislative Commission on Ethics Standards,

         4       which also doesn't address the additional

         5       suggestions that are built into the chapter

         6       amendment.

         7                  So I guess, to leap forward, I

         8       don't believe the chapter amendment duplicates

         9       or is redundant with the underlying bill.

        10                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I'll speak

        11       on the bill when the time comes, okay?

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        13       Thank you, Senator.

        14                  Senator Krueger, would you want to

        15       continue?

        16                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you

        17       so much, Madam President.

        18                  So again we've tackled the

        19       question, at least from my perspective, on why

        20       the section of the chapter amendment that

        21       creates an enforcement unit in the Board of

        22       Elections is a critical additional component

        23       to be taken under advisement and built into a

        24       final law in New York State.



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         1                  But I also just want to highlight

         2       the additional supplements in the chapter

         3       amendment that are not addressed in the

         4       underlying bill and I think are so crucial.

         5                  It expands the definition of

         6       lobbying to include resolutions, outcomes of

         7       any actions of either chamber, and the outcome

         8       of any other official act of the State

         9       Legislature.

        10                  Well, when I talk to people in my

        11       district about their concern about ethics,

        12       they have many concerns.  They have concerns

        13       about the behavior of individual legislators.

        14       They have concerns about use of campaign

        15       monies.  But they have, I would say, the most

        16       concerns about how does it work up here in

        17       Albany.

        18                  Again, they're not necessarily

        19       following the day-to-day life up here.  They

        20       want to understand:  "So, we hear you can buy

        21       a bill in Albany.  Is that right, that if you

        22       pay a lobbyist you can get your bill done?"

        23       They say:  "We're confused.  We understand

        24       that perhaps if you pay somebody to lobby for



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         1       you, you can get a special contract through a

         2       specific state agency, you can get state

         3       budget money directed to you."  They are very

         4       concerned about that.

         5                  Now, I believe that there's more

         6       smoke than fire and in fact this government,

         7       this city in fact has many, many things it can

         8       be proud about in how we operate our

         9       government and how we protect against abuse of

        10       power here in this chamber, across the hall in

        11       the Assembly, in the Governor's chambers, and

        12       of course throughout the state agencies.

        13                  But there is smoke and there are

        14       some things that of course have proved to be

        15       true stories.  And so it is critical for me,

        16       when I go home and talk to the people in my

        17       district, to tell them, you know, there were

        18       concerns and we can fix them.

        19                  And I believe in this chapter

        20       amendment, combined with the underlying bill,

        21       we go further to assure the people of New York

        22       State that when somebody gets elected or

        23       appointed to the Legislature, to the

        24       Governor's chambers, to a state agency, to a



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         1       state commission, to a state authority, that

         2       there is a careful review and audit

         3       possibility and investigation possibility to

         4       ensure that anybody who is attempting to do

         5       business with the State of New York or get

         6       something changed in our laws or in our budget

         7       is in fact following all the right processes

         8       and that decisions are being made for the

         9       right reasons, which is the facts justify the

        10       actions -- not because money changed hands.

        11                  So I think it is crucial that we

        12       take the steps that go farther in Senator

        13       Sampson's chapter amendment to assure the

        14       people of New York that we are protecting them

        15       and their investments, through their tax

        16       dollars, in our budget and their investments

        17       in democracy by electing us to be here and do

        18       the people's business the right way.

        19                  So I, to be honest, when I look at

        20       this go I don't really understand how you can

        21       vote against this bill, and I will be very

        22       pleased and proud to be voting for it tonight.

        23                  Thank you, Madam President.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:



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         1       Thank you, Senator.

         2                  Senator DeFrancisco, you wanted to

         3       speak on the bill?

         4                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    All I

         5       wanted to point out is that this whole debate

         6       is backwards.  I was going to frame it a

         7       different way.

         8                  There is an ethics bill that's

         9       probably going to be supported by a majority

        10       in this house, the bill that Senator Squadron

        11       has.  And to comment, as Senator Krueger did,

        12       to the effect that we've got to have ethics

        13       reform, we've got to do it, we've got to have

        14       ethics reform -- to debate an amendment to a

        15       bill that hasn't even passed yet when there is

        16       a solution in the bill that's been passed by

        17       the Assembly and probably will be passed at

        18       this house that's just an alternative

        19       enforcement mechanism, and to say that "I

        20       don't know how you can not support this

        21       particular mechanism" I think is a little bit

        22       misleading, to put it mildly.

        23                  I think if there was a debate on

        24       the other bill, as there will be sometime



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         1       tonight, there's going to be criticism of the

         2       bill but probably a majority will pass it.

         3       And there will be a mechanism that's set up

         4       that obviously some people on this side of the

         5       aisle feel is preferable to the Sampson

         6       amendment.

         7                  And if this amendment was so

         8       wonderful, why wasn't it part of the Squadron

         9       original bill?  If Senator Squadron thinks

        10       this is moving the ball down the field to the

        11       goal line, put it in his bill.

        12                  And there's a simply reason why

        13       that's the case, because the Sampson amendment

        14       isn't going to pass the Assembly in my

        15       lifetime.  And it's just a political component

        16       of this body to get certain people to vote no

        17       on an ethics bill.  Because it's not going to

        18       pass -- it's a one-house bill.  It's not going

        19       to pass the other house.  And I'll be happy to

        20       publicly apologize to everybody if I'm wrong.

        21                  So the point I'm making simply is

        22       this.  There are many people in this chamber,

        23       a majority, that are going to support the

        24       Squadron bill.  It has a certain mechanism as



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         1       to how it's enforced.  To suggest that certain

         2       people are out of their mind or just wrong or

         3       how could they possibly vote against the

         4       Sampson bill, it's because it's not as good a

         5       solution as the bill that was passed by the

         6       Assembly, as will be seen once the vote is

         7       taken.

         8                  So I'm going to vote against this

         9       amendment which amends something that doesn't

        10       exist that we're going to debate in the

        11       future.

        12                  Thank you.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        14       Thank you, Senator.

        15                  Senator Schneiderman.

        16                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

        17       Madam President.

        18                  I am proud to rise in support of

        19       this bill.  And I have to say that I think

        20       that -- with all due respect, I think that the

        21       way that Senator DeFrancisco has framed this

        22       is the wrong way to look at this issue.

        23                  We have a problem of ethics and the

        24       lack of enforcement of ethics laws in Albany.



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         1       The Sampson bill provides substantial reforms.

         2       The Silver-Squadron bill, which did pass the

         3       Assembly, takes modest steps, and Senator

         4       Squadron has fought to expand it.  Now, I know

         5       this may come as a surprise to Senator

         6       DeFrancisco, but Senator Squadron has limited

         7       power over the Speaker of the Assembly and

         8       what bills he chooses to put on the floor and

         9       pass.  He's a powerful young man, he will

        10       certainly gain more power as he goes on in his

        11       career.

        12                  But the fact that the Assembly --

        13       you know, I really have to say this is a

        14       remarkable moment for us to hear my colleagues

        15       on the other side of the aisle saying the

        16       Assembly passed this bill, the Assembly didn't

        17       pass Senator Sampson's bill; well, let's go

        18       with the bill the Assembly passed.  Shelly

        19       Silver is always right, I guess now, according

        20       to my colleagues.

        21                  Look, the Silver-Squadron bill

        22       takes some modest steps.  The Sampson bill is

        23       designed to fit together with that bill and

        24       actually create a much more substantial ethics



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         1       enforcement mechanism.  Senator Squadron, who

         2       worked with Senator Sampson on the bill,

         3       agrees that you have to have both.  And quite

         4       honestly, my colleagues, from my point of

         5       view -- and this is just me speaking -- I do

         6       not think that the Silver bill goes nearly far

         7       enough.

         8                  I have stood and listened to you

         9       for untold hours talk about how we have to

        10       step up and do better than the Assembly, how

        11       we have to show them the right way to do

        12       legislation.  Well, tonight you have an

        13       opportunity to do that.  Do you really believe

        14       that passing the Silver-Squadron bill without

        15       the companion of the Sampson bill does as much

        16       as we could do to further ethics reform and

        17       ethics enforcement in Albany?  I would

        18       respectfully that that's not a credible

        19       argument.

        20                  This enhances enforcement.  This

        21       provides for reviews of our financial filings

        22       which are not provided for by the Silver bill.

        23       This provides definitions of contributions

        24       that significantly expand ethics.  Actually,



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         1       you know, one of the things that this bill

         2       does that I think is tremendously important

         3       that is not done in the underlying Silver

         4       bill, this changes the definition of lobbying

         5       to include resolutions or any other actions of

         6       either chamber.  Do you know that under the

         7       existing ethics law and under the Assembly's

         8       bill, resolutions must allocate funds.  If you

         9       lobby on those, you don't have to register as

        10       a lobbyist.  How stupid is that?  How riddled

        11       with holes is the ethics law that encompassed

        12       provision?

        13                  So the Sampson bill is essential.

        14       Senator Squadron welcomes your support for the

        15       Sampson bill in spite of the fact that he is

        16       the sponsor of the other bill.  If we don't do

        17       both, we haven't done our job.  Let us say to

        18       the Governor and the Assembly the Senate is

        19       willing to take things a step further.  We

        20       want more enforcement, we want more

        21       transparency, we want broader definitions of

        22       what is reportable.  That's the message today.

        23                  Senator Sampson and Senator

        24       Squadron worked together.  Please don't



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         1       pretend that it's okay to vote for -- you want

         2       to vote for the Squadron bill so you shouldn't

         3       vote for the Sampson bill.  They are both here

         4       telling you that the two form a package of

         5       serious ethics reform.  And frankly, either

         6       one by themselves is inadequate, in my view.

         7                  I urge everyone here who cares

         8       about ethics, who cares about the enforcement

         9       of these laws to vote for this fine piece of

        10       legislation.  Madam President, I certainly

        11       will be voting yes.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        13       Thank you, Senator.

        14                  Are there any other Senators

        15       wishing to be heard on the bill?

        16                  Senator Morahan.

        17                  SENATOR MORAHAN:    To speak on the

        18       amendment, Madam President.

        19                  You know, I came here today happy

        20       that we were going to do some reform and some

        21       other bills.  And when asked about this

        22       amendment and the major bill, I said to people

        23       I wanted to hear the debate on this particular

        24       bill before I committed to it or against it.



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         1                  I think it's a well-intentioned

         2       effort.  I think the people of the State of

         3       New York would like to have reform, would like

         4       to have some assurances, if you will, that

         5       what we do here and what we do in the Assembly

         6       and what we do on the second floor is in their

         7       best interest and that we're honest brokers on

         8       their behalf.  I agree with that.

         9                  But they also want fairness.  I

        10       think they'd be intimidated if this

        11       situation -- which could reverse at any

        12       particular time, depending on the makeup of

        13       the government -- that you have a seven-to-two

        14       investigatory body, if you will, who can pick

        15       and choose what they do, when they do it, to

        16       whom they do it -- I don't know that

        17       New Yorkers want that sort of reform.  I think

        18       they want reform but they want a fair, fair

        19       commission, law enforcement, whatever it may

        20       be.

        21                  Now, when they say that all of

        22       these cases are backed up in the Board of

        23       Elections, I understand that.  We've all been

        24       through that process.  But it also seems to me



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         1       that if we enhance the Board of Elections with

         2       an investigatory team, with people who can go

         3       out and do and adequately staff the Board of

         4       Elections investigatory people to investigate

         5       the claims made by public citizens, political

         6       committees, candidates, whomever, and those

         7       investigators were split 50/50 on a bipartisan

         8       way, I think they would be more comfortable

         9       knowing that we have an adequate force to do

        10       an adequate investigation and complete

        11       investigation and it would be done in a fair

        12       and unbiased manner.  And set up rules for

        13       that investigatory team on what they would

        14       move forward on and what they would not and

        15       who would make the recommendations.

        16                  Now, I think there's time.  This

        17       bill probably will not pass tonight.  And I

        18       think there's time for Senator Sampson to get

        19       together with others and try to move this

        20       around, this appointment process, that it

        21       becomes not only effective but becomes fair.

        22       And I think that's what New Yorkers want --

        23       effective investigations, full investigations,

        24       but they want fair investigations.  They don't



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         1       want what could be perceived to be

         2       witch-hunts.

         3                  So unfortunately, while I can

         4       support the main bill, I have difficulty with

         5       this.  I know it's not going to pass tonight.

         6       I know the Assembly hasn't addressed it.  So

         7       there's time; we can get this in place.

         8                  And this is a great effort in

         9       putting this bill out, or this amendment out,

        10       to start the dialogue, to say that we really

        11       mean business and we have what we think we

        12       want to put in place, we've just got to come

        13       up with a little fairer way of making sure

        14       that there's bipartisan representation.

        15                  It's similar to me when they talk

        16       about doing reapportionment.  They know we do

        17       reapportionment.  What they ask for and what

        18       good government groups have asked for on

        19       reapportionment is that it be a bipartisan,

        20       nonpartisan situation.  Then they would feel

        21       that the reapportionment would be done in a

        22       reasonably fair manner.  As opposed to if they

        23       had seven to two doing the reapportionment for

        24       our seats and the Assembly seats and the



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         1       Congressional seats, I think there would be a

         2       hue and a cry.

         3                  So to me, unfortunately, I don't

         4       really like voting against this bill, but I

         5       feel compelled to because underlying

         6       everything, Americans and New Yorkers are fair

         7       people and they don't want anything that's

         8       lopsided, no matter what party is in control.

         9       It ought to be so whichever party or whoever

        10       has gotten the Governor's office or whatever,

        11       it comes out that these are separate people

        12       doing a bipartisan job in a fair way.

        13                  That's it.  Thank you, Madam

        14       President.  I vote no.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        16       Thank you, Senator.

        17                  Senator Sampson.

        18                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Thank you very

        19       much, Madam President.  On the bill.

        20                  And just to respond -- not even to

        21       respond, but just to reassure my colleague

        22       Senator Morahan that I'll be the first one to

        23       tell you that I always want everything to be

        24       effective and fair.  Especially as a criminal



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         1       defense attorney, I'm very mindful of creating

         2       enforcement groups who can become rogue at

         3       times and leaving that door open.

         4                  But this bill doesn't do that.  The

         5       only thing this bill does is it's a panel that

         6       designates who the executive director is.  And

         7       the executive director is there responsible

         8       for that enforcement unit, which presently

         9       consists of only two individuals right now.

        10                  The panel doesn't do anything.  It

        11       doesn't investigate.  It only appoints the

        12       executive director, who is there for a fixed

        13       term of three years, so he cannot be

        14       influenced by whoever is in power.  And that

        15       is extremely important.

        16                  Right now we are at the crossroads

        17       and we have to understand that it's about

        18       restoring faith, trust and confidence back

        19       into this institution, and that's what it's

        20       all about.  It's not about politics.  And as

        21       everyone knows me, you know, I may be a

        22       Democrat, but I'm a fair individual.  And when

        23       you talk about effectiveness and fairness,

        24       that's what I'm all about.



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         1                  But this bill does not and will not

         2       create what you call an enforcement unit that

         3       is out of control, because I'm very mindful of

         4       that.  Because during my own practices and

         5       during my own trials and tribulations, I know

         6       what an enforcement group or a rogue group can

         7       do to just create havoc on your life on just

         8       mere allegations.  So it's important that

         9       that's why we have those stopgaps with respect

        10       to the Board of Elections, have to go before

        11       them and reassure that everything has to be

        12       substantiated.

        13                  So at the end of the day, the only

        14       thing that I'm trying to do is Senator

        15       Squadron has a good bill but it doesn't go

        16       quite far enough.  A lot of the good

        17       government groups are in support of this

        18       amendment because with all the scandals and

        19       everything else going on and all the

        20       allegations, I think we owe it to the public

        21       to let them know that we are on the right

        22       track now.  It's about restoring decorum back

        23       into this chamber.  But most of all, we

        24       understand that the faith, the trust, and the



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         1       confidence of the people in what we call

         2       government and what we call our leadership

         3       here in Albany is paramount, and we have to

         4       give them that security.

         5                  So with that, Madam President, I

         6       will be voting in favor of this amendment.

         7       And I ask my colleagues to look at this

         8       objectively.  This is not about creating a

         9       rogue group, allowing someone to go in there

        10       and just make a determination.  You're

        11       concerned about the partisanship issue, they

        12       still exist on the main bill of Senator

        13       Squadron.

        14                  It's about making sure to the

        15       people of the State of New York that we are

        16       serious about doing business here in Albany

        17       and at the end of the day they can feel

        18       comfortable knowing that their State Senators,

        19       from Buffalo to Brooklyn, understand what it

        20       is to restore the faith, the trust, and the

        21       confidence back into this institution.

        22                  Thank you very much, Madam

        23       President.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:



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         1       Thank you, Senator.

         2                  Are there any other Senators

         3       wishing to be heard on the bill?

         4                  Hearing none, the debate is closed.

         5       The Secretary will please ring the bells.

         6                  Read the last section.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 17.  This

         8       act shall take effect immediately.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        10       Call the roll.

        11                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        13       Senator Flanagan.

        14                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    To explain my

        15       vote.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        17       Senator Flanagan, to explain his vote.

        18                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Madam

        19       President, to explain my vote.

        20                  I forgot to mention one very

        21       important component of this bill that I think

        22       many of us may have overlooked, and that is on

        23       page 10, Section 14.

        24                  While the penalties are increased



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         1       from $500 to $1,000 for civil enforcement,

         2       there is a very basic change that a lot of our

         3       local boards are not going to be happy with,

         4       and that is the fact that the ability to

         5       enforce at the local level is now gone.

         6                  All enforcement actions can only

         7       come from the State Board of Elections.  So

         8       any local boards that heretofore have done

         9       this work -- and there may be those who are

        10       out there doing it very well -- they now no

        11       longer have that power.

        12                  So we're creating two problems.

        13       Number one, we're taking that power away from

        14       our local boards.  And even if you acknowledge

        15       the problems at the state board, you're now

        16       adding a lot more work on top of that with

        17       absolutely no money to back it up.

        18                  I'm voting no.  Thank you.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        20       Senator Flanagan to be recorded in the

        21       negative.

        22                  Senator Squadron.

        23                  SENATOR SQUADRON:    To explain my

        24       vote, Madam President.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         2       Senator Squadron, to explain his vote.

         3                  SENATOR SQUADRON:    This debate

         4       was a little surprising to me.  A lot has been

         5       this year, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised

         6       by that.

         7                  The idea that this is some panel

         8       that is a Democratic or a Republican panel is

         9       not true.  It's proven not true.  It's in the

        10       language not true.  First point.

        11                  Second point, the idea that somehow

        12       a chapter amendment undermines the underlying

        13       bills, that's not true.  It's a canard.  We

        14       all know that.

        15                  The fact is together these two,

        16       this bill and this chapter amendment, create

        17       exactly what we need on enforcement.  It is a

        18       unique opportunity not to just do something

        19       that looks good but to move the ball way down

        20       the field on ethics.

        21                  And the fact that half of it, half

        22       of the package, a full half is going to die

        23       based on a couple of canards is really

        24       shocking and disappointing.



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         1                  The fact is tonight we're missing

         2       someone on the other side of the aisle who

         3       sponsors a bill that has exactly the sort of

         4       enforcement on campaign finance that is in

         5       this bill, and he's not here tonight.  He

         6       sponsors a bill that has this exact mechanism.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         8       (Gaveling.)

         9                  SENATOR SQUADRON:    Thank you.

        10       And a couple of more seconds on my two

        11       minutes, if you don't mind.

        12                  A member on the other side of the

        13       aisle has cosponsored a bill that has exactly

        14       the mechanism that is being used as the

        15       justification for voting against this bill

        16       tonight.

        17                  A member on this side is not able

        18       to be here for personal and tragic reasons.

        19                  The fact is it would be a mistake

        20       to move half and not all tonight, missing two

        21       members who we have good reason to believe

        22       understand that doing this comprehensively is

        23       the point.  We have to do it, we have to do it

        24       this session, we have to base it on what we



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         1       already seen the Assembly can pass and did

         2       pass and set the table for us.

         3                  But this idea that we're going to

         4       let these sorts of crazy theories that don't

         5       make any sense kill half of comprehensive

         6       ethics reform when we're missing some members

         7       who have shown that they really do understand

         8       why it's so important I think doesn't make any

         9       sense.

        10                  So I am going to vote for this

        11       chapter, and I urge any members who aren't

        12       voting for it to reconsider their votes.

        13                  Thank you.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        15       Thank you, Senator.

        16                  Senator DeFrancisco, to explain his

        17       vote.

        18                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes, I

        19       listened carefully to Senator Squadron.  And

        20       there's two things that appeared obvious, that

        21       the comments here on this side of the aisle,

        22       especially those of Senator Flanagan, went

        23       well beyond the composition of the board that

        24       are reasons why this bill should not be



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         1       passed.

         2                  Secondly, if this bill is going to

         3       move everything to the goal line, Senator

         4       Squadron had plenty of time to incorporate the

         5       provisions of this bill into his legislation

         6       so that we would be voting on the goal-line

         7       bill if he truly thought that that was the way

         8       to go.

         9                  And I believe that's also the

        10       reason why we went backwards in this whole

        11       process.  And Senator Squadron certainly can

        12       amend his bill to bring it to the epitome of

        13       ethics reform by incorporating the Sampson

        14       bill.

        15                  So I think it's a little bit

        16       suspicious, the arguments that were being

        17       made, and I would think that this bill is not

        18       a good one.  We'll see what happens on his

        19       bill when it's debated.

        20                  Thank you.  I vote no.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        22       Senator DeFrancisco to be recorded in the

        23       negative.

        24                  Senator Padavan, to explain his



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         1       vote.

         2                  SENATOR PADAVAN:    You know, the

         3       road of good intentions is sometimes full of

         4       potholes.  The pothole here is the enforcement

         5       unit.  You hesitate to use the word

         6       "enforcement," but it's in the bill.

         7                  And it is partisan.  It is seven to

         8       two.  Senator Morahan pointed out the

         9       unfairness of that.  Others have spoken to

        10       that issue time and time again.

        11                  There are many good parts to this

        12       chapter amendment, but that part, it kind of

        13       overrides everything else.  That's why we are

        14       standing here objecting to something which has

        15       been categorized as basically unfair,

        16       undemocratic -- small D -- and not in the best

        17       interests of the people of this state.

        18                  That could provide for witch-hunts,

        19       that could provide for situations where

        20       individuals will be targeted for no other

        21       purpose than political.  That possibility is

        22       engendered in the very structure of this

        23       chapter amendment.  That's my major concern,

        24       and I think many others'.



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         1                  And for that reason I vote no.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         3       Senator Padavan to be recorded in the

         4       negative.

         5                  Are there any other Senators

         6       wishing to explain his or her vote?

         7                  Senator Schneiderman.

         8                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

         9       Madam President.

        10                  I'm voting yes.  And I have to say

        11       that I don't really understand the arguments

        12       on the merits of the other side.  I do

        13       understand the arguments politically.

        14                  This bill, because it is a bill,

        15       changes the definition of lobbying to make

        16       this a more ethical state, requires us to

        17       report business dealings with lobbyists,

        18       creates random review of our financial

        19       disclosure statements so they just don't sit

        20       there in a pile.  It changes the rules for

        21       ethics commissions.  And it does create an

        22       enforcement unit.  And in spite of everything

        23       that has been said, the only function of this

        24       panel, which is a government panel -- and yes,



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         1       most of the government officials in this state

         2       are Democrats right now -- is to appoint an

         3       executive director.  This provision was

         4       insisted on by the good government groups.

         5       The enforcement unit thereafter is not

         6       influenced at all by the appointing panel.  It

         7       works under the supervision of the Board of

         8       Elections.  I don't think we can be clearer.

         9                  This is something that makes this a

        10       more ethical state.  This advances the cause

        11       of transparency and small-d democracy.  I do

        12       understand an argument on the merits against

        13       it.  I do understand the argument politically.

        14       Nobody wants more scrutiny.  We want to look

        15       like we're passing an ethics bill by voting

        16       for the floor rather than the package.

        17                  But even the sponsor, Senator

        18       Squadron, who agrees that these two bills

        19       together are really what we need acknowledges

        20       that his bill alone does not do the job.

        21                  I think it would be a big mistake

        22       to leave here tonight saying, Oh, we passed an

        23       ethics bill when we only did half of it.

        24       We've got to do both, Madam President.  I hope



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         1       one person on the other side of the aisle will

         2       stand up so that we can do this in a

         3       bipartisan way and vote for this so that we

         4       can pass a full package of ethics reform,

         5       Madam President.

         6                  I'm voting yes.  I urge my

         7       colleagues, this is the right thing to do.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         9       Senator Schneiderman to be recorded in the

        10       affirmative.

        11                  Are there any other Senators

        12       wishing to explain his or her vote?

        13                  The Secretary will announce the

        14       results.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

        16       the negative on Calendar Number 960 are

        17       Senators Alesi, DeFrancisco, Farley, Flanagan,

        18       Fuschillo, Golden, Griffo, Hannon, O. Johnson,

        19       Lanza, Larkin, LaValle, Leibell, Libous,

        20       Little, Marcellino, Maziarz, McDonald,

        21       Morahan, Nozzolio, Padavan, Ranzenhofer,

        22       Robach, Saland, Seward, Skelos, Volker, Winner

        23       and Young.

        24                  Ayes, 31.  Nays, 29.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         2       The bill is defeated.

         3                  Senator Sampson.

         4                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Madam

         5       President, at this point in time can we please

         6       lay this bill on the table.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         8       The bill is laid on the table.

         9                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Thank you.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        11       The Secretary will continue to read.

        12                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Madam President.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        14       Senator Libous, I had asked the Secretary to

        15       read.  Is --

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        17       959 --

        18                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    No, no, no, no,

        19       no.  I'm sorry.  Madam President.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        21       Senator Libous.

        22                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Point of order.

        23       What took place just then?

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:



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         1       Senator Sampson asked that the bill be laid on

         2       the table.

         3                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Laid on the

         4       table.  And for what purpose?  The bill was

         5       defeated.  It has to be reconsidered.

         6                  Madam President, the normal

         7       procedure in this house in the past has been

         8       that the vote has to be reconsidered and then

         9       the bill is laid aside.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        11       Senator Libous, we are checking that.

        12                  SENATOR SMITH:    Madam President.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        14       Senator Smith.

        15                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes, would you

        16       please recognize Senator Sampson.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        18       Senator Sampson.

        19                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Madam

        20       President, at this point in time I would like

        21       to make a motion to reconsider the vote.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        23       Senator Sampson, are you asking to have the

        24       bill that was defeated reconsidered?



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         1                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Yes, Madam

         2       President.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         4       The Secretary will read.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         6       960, by Senator Sampson, Senate Print 6157, an

         7       act to amend the Legislative Law and the

         8       Public Officers Law.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        10       The Secretary will call the roll on

        11       reconsideration.

        12                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        15       The bill is restored to the Third Reading

        16       Calendar.

        17                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Madam

        18       President, at this point I move to lay the

        19       bill aside for the day.  Thank you.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        21       The bill is laid aside for the day.

        22                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you, Madam

        23       President.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:



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         1       Thank you, Senator Libous.

         2                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Madam

         3       President.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         5       Senator Sampson.

         6                  SENATOR SAMPSON:    Now may I have

         7       that bill tabled?

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         9       The bill is tabled.

        10                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    I beg your

        11       pardon, Madam President.  Point of order.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        13       Senator Libous.

        14                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    A motion of

        15       reconsideration may be made at any time

        16       thereafter while the same is in the possession

        17       of the Senate.  All resolutions recalling a

        18       bill or resolution of the Assembly shall be

        19       regarded as privileged, and no vote shall be

        20       reconsidered upon either the following

        21       motions, to adjourn or to lay on the table.

        22                  The bill can be laid aside.  It

        23       cannot be laid on the table.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:



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         1       Senator Smith.

         2                  SENATOR SMITH:    Madam President,

         3       I believe that we have that bill laid aside

         4       for the day.

         5                  And if that is the case, I'd like

         6       to go back to the calendar and begin to read

         7       the bills.

         8                  Thank you, Madam President.

         9                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you,

        10       Senator.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        12       The Secretary will continue to read.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        14       959, substituted earlier today by Member of

        15       the Assembly Silver, Assembly Print Number

        16       9032, an act to amend the Executive Law.

        17                  SENATOR SMITH:    Lay that aside

        18       for the day.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        20       The bill is laid aside for the day.

        21                  The Secretary will continue to

        22       read.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        24       872, by Member of the Assembly Silver,



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         1       Assembly Print Number 8901, an act to amend

         2       the Public Authorities Law.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         4       Read the last section.

         5                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Explanation.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         7       Senator Aubertine, an explanation has been

         8       requested.

         9                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Thank you,

        10       Madam President.

        11                  Through you, this is a bill that

        12       would establish a loan fund that would provide

        13       for middle-income families the ability to tap

        14       into this loan fund for weatherization for

        15       their homes.

        16                  Also, this program would create an

        17       estimated 5,000 jobs plus across the state --

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        19       May we have order in the chamber, please.

        20                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Thank you,

        21       Madam President.

        22                  Also, this bill in the Assembly

        23       passed nearly unanimously.  It was supported

        24       by the minority leader in the Assembly.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         2       Thank you, Senator Aubertine.

         3                  Senator Young.

         4                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Yes, Madam

         5       President.  Through you, would the sponsor

         6       yield for some questions?

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         8       Senator Aubertine, do you yield for questions?

         9                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes.

        10                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Thank you,

        11       Senator Aubertine.

        12                  This is a nice-sounding bill.  It's

        13       called "Green Jobs."  And it actually takes

        14       $112 million and puts it toward

        15       weatherization, as you said.  Can you please

        16       explain to this body where that $112 million

        17       comes from?

        18                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes.  Through

        19       you, Madam President, the $112 million comes

        20       from the sales of carbon credits in the RGGI

        21       fund.

        22                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Okay.  Thank you,

        23       Senator Aubertine.  Were you aware that --

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:



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         1       Senator Young --

         2                  SENATOR YOUNG:    If he will yield,

         3       Madam President.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         5       Do you continue to yield, Senator Aubertine?

         6                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

         7       President.

         8                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Were you aware

         9       that there's already $1 billion that's

        10       supposed to be expended by NYSERDA by the year

        11       2015, and a lot of that money is going to go

        12       toward -- it's all going to go toward energy

        13       efficiency, a lot of it toward environmental

        14       justice?

        15                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

        16       Madam President, yes, I am aware of that.

        17       However, that funding is limited to low-income

        18       families.  And the families that potentially

        19       would be affected by the Green Jobs program

        20       would not be able to access that funding.

        21       Therefore, the Green Jobs program would take

        22       care of that loophole.

        23                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Madam President,

        24       through you.



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         1                  Senator Aubertine, were you also

         2       aware that the Division of Housing and

         3       Community Renewal also has $500 million

         4       allocated for weatherization programs?

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         6       Senator Aubertine.

         7                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

         8       Madam President, yes, I am.

         9                  And again, those dollars are

        10       allocated for low-income families.  Families

        11       making $30,000 to $99,000 annually could not

        12       access those funds.

        13                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Thank you, Madam

        14       President.  Through you.

        15                  Senator Aubertine, I also wanted to

        16       ask a question about this $112 million.  Were

        17       you aware that on April 27th of this year --

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        19       Excuse me, Senator Young.

        20                  Please, I would ask the people in

        21       the rear to allow for the debate to happen.

        22                  Senator Young.

        23                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Thank you, Madam

        24       President.  I'll start again, Senator



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         1       Aubertine.

         2                  Basically, were you aware that

         3       NYSERDA voted on April 27th of this year to

         4       allocate that $112 million toward all kinds of

         5       energy efficiency and other projects that

         6       would actually stimulate the economy?

         7                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

         8       Madam President, yes, I am aware of that.

         9                  And as recently as yesterday I had

        10       a conversation with NYSERDA and was assured

        11       that the $112 million that would be allocated

        12       from the RGGI fund into the Green Jobs program

        13       would have absolutely no impact on the

        14       commitments that NYSERDA has made in their

        15       operating plan.

        16                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Thank you, Madam

        17       President.  Through you.

        18                  That's very interesting.  I guess I

        19       would ask the question, then, where is NYSERDA

        20       going to get this -- or where are you going to

        21       get this $112 million to do this

        22       weatherization program?

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        24       Senator Aubertine, do you continue to yield?



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         1                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, I do.

         2                  And through you, Madam President,

         3       currently there's $126 million in the program

         4       as of yesterday morning.  Between yesterday

         5       and today, there has been another auction of

         6       RGGI credits.  At this point I was unable to

         7       get the exact dollar amount that was raised

         8       through that auction.  However, it's estimated

         9       that that was about a $40 million sale, which

        10       would lift that to over $160 million, give or

        11       take.

        12                  There will be another auction

        13       before the end of this year and another

        14       auction in the first quarter of next year,

        15       presumably before the Green Jobs program is

        16       implemented.  So conceivably that sum would

        17       grow considerably more than the $150 or

        18       $160 million that's in there currently.

        19                  And also I would point out that

        20       having had that conversation with NYSERDA

        21       yesterday, there was no urgency to use the

        22       entire $112 million in a single lump in an

        23       initial investment in green jobs.  NYSERDA was

        24       looking to get the program started more with



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         1       an initial investment of somewhere around

         2       $40 million.

         3                  SENATOR YOUNG:    So through you,

         4       Madam President.  So what you're saying,

         5       Senator Aubertine, is that you feel that

         6       there's going to be excessive money available

         7       that could be used for this particular

         8       program.

         9                  I guess it begs the question, then,

        10       if for example upstate New York, whose economy

        11       is really struggling right now -- the farmers

        12       are struggling, the small businesses are

        13       struggling, the manufacturers are

        14       struggling -- why aren't we allocating money

        15       through energy-related programs to help the

        16       farmers, to help the small businesses, to help

        17       the manufacturers, especially upstate where

        18       the recession has hit the hardest and where we

        19       typically have struggled over the years?

        20                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

        21       Madam President.  Senator, this is precisely

        22       what this program does.  It's not limited to

        23       homeowners.  Businesses, small businesses as

        24       well, can access these programs.  There's



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         1       nothing here to preclude farmers, agriculture

         2       from accessing this program as long as they

         3       meet the guidelines set forth by NYSERDA.

         4                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Through you,

         5       Madam President --

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         7       Senator Aubertine, do you continue to yield?

         8                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

         9       President.

        10                  SENATOR YOUNG:    I understand that

        11       possibly some of those entities could qualify

        12       for this money.  But right now, for example,

        13       the dairy farmers in New York State are going

        14       out of business.  They have the lowest milk

        15       prices that they've ever had, and it's

        16       continued for nearly a year.

        17                  The 18A tax that your colleagues,

        18       your side of the aisle levied on all of the

        19       utilities earlier this year through the state

        20       budget had all of those small businesses, all

        21       the farmers and so on, the estimates are that

        22       it will cost the farmers about $100 per cow

        23       more in costs because of the 18A tax.

        24                  So it's nice that they might want



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         1       to weatherize their barn.  I'm not sure what

         2       that really saves them.  What they're really

         3       looking for are cost savings, some kind of

         4       help.  And we've increased their costs

         5       significantly.

         6                  So my question is if we've done

         7       that and they're even struggling to stay in

         8       business, why don't we allocate some of this

         9       money, if you think there's excess, toward

        10       helping the farmers or small businesses or

        11       people like that?

        12                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

        13       Madam President.  Did I understand you

        14       correctly, Senator, that the 18A assessment

        15       costs the average farmer $100 per cow?

        16                  SENATOR YOUNG:    With the

        17       increased taxes, yes.

        18                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Do you --

        19       could you share with me --

        20                  SENATOR YOUNG:    I would be glad

        21       to go out and dig up my source.  I don't have

        22       it with me right now, Senator.

        23                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Thank you,

        24       Senator.



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         1                  SENATOR YOUNG:    But would you

         2       agree, then, though, that that increased their

         3       costs?

         4                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

         5       Madam President.  The dollar amount that

         6       you're speaking about, the money in the RGGI

         7       account, there certainly would be -- again, if

         8       NYSERDA chose to move those programs out

         9       there, there certainly would be money

        10       available, I believe, for all small

        11       businesses, including dairy farms.

        12                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Thank you, Madam

        13       President.  Would Senator Aubertine continue

        14       to yield?

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        16       Senator Aubertine, do you continue to yield?

        17                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

        18       President.

        19                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Thank you.

        20                  You know, you've taken on a couple

        21       of roles now, which I think is great.  You're

        22       chair of the Ag Committee, you're chair of the

        23       Energy Committee.

        24                  And so these revenues that you're



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         1       spending through this bill actually come

         2       through this RGGI initiative that is a tax on

         3       power that's generated.  Could you explain for

         4       the chamber where most of this power comes

         5       from?  Where are the power generators in the

         6       state?

         7                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

         8       Madam President, this revenue comes from the

         9       power generators of the state.

        10                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Where are they

        11       located?

        12                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

        13       Madam President, they're located in various

        14       locations around the state.

        15                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Madam President,

        16       will he continue to yield?

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        18       Do you continue to yield, Senator?

        19                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

        20       President.

        21                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Actually just to

        22       clarify my point.  Where I was leading was

        23       that there are a couple, a handful of very

        24       small power generators in the New York City



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         1       area, but the vast majority of the power is

         2       generated upstate.  Would you agree with that

         3       statement?

         4                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

         5       Madam President, yes.

         6                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Including your

         7       district; right?

         8                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Absolutely.

         9                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Thank you.  I was

        10       reading through the bill, Senator Aubertine --

        11       if he would continue to yield.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        13       Do you continue to yield, Senator?

        14                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

        15       President.

        16                  SENATOR YOUNG:    I was reading

        17       through the bill, and it said that these

        18       grants would go through an RFP process and

        19       that geographic area would be considered as

        20       one of the elements.  But where does it say in

        21       the bill that there would, for example, maybe

        22       be an even split between upstate and

        23       downstate?

        24                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,



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         1       Madam President.  Senator, it's on page 4.

         2                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Senator, is that

         3       where it says there would be a geographic

         4       consideration?

         5                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes.  If

         6       you'll look down through to Line 38, number 2:

         7       "In awarding the grants, the authority shall."

         8       And then if you go down just a couple more

         9       lines to lines 47 and 48, subsection C there:

        10       "ensure that the awards as a whole reflect the

        11       geographic diversity of the state."

        12                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Thank you,

        13       Senator Aubertine.  Would you continue to

        14       yield?

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        16       Senator Aubertine, do you continue to yield?

        17                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

        18       President.

        19                  SENATOR YOUNG:    But basically,

        20       under that language, they could maybe give

        21       five awards upstate and the rest downstate.

        22       There's no kind of percentage that's outlined

        23       there.  It just says that some have to go to

        24       other geographic areas.  So basically it



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         1       doesn't say that upstate would be guaranteed

         2       50 percent of the money, for example.

         3                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

         4       Madam President.  Senator, would you mind

         5       repeating the question, please?

         6                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Would you agree

         7       that it doesn't specifically outline, even

         8       though based on that language, that upstate

         9       would get, you know, to be fair, maybe

        10       50 percent of the money?  Because it says

        11       based on geographic considerations, but that

        12       doesn't -- I mean, they could throw maybe five

        13       projects upstate and the rest of the money

        14       could go downstate.

        15                  And so where does it say that

        16       there's some kind of percentage split?

        17       Because I don't believe that it's in the bill,

        18       unless you can show me where it's at.

        19                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

        20       Madam President, there is no formula in the

        21       bill to address economically distressed areas

        22       of the state.

        23                  However, if you'll read in the

        24       bill, it does point out areas of the state as



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         1       far as need, as far as mean income and housing

         2       stock.  So I think if you were to look at

         3       obviously the weather conditions in northern

         4       parts of the state and the mean income in

         5       northern parts of the state, I think you would

         6       agree that clearly Northern New York would

         7       access a good deal of that funding.

         8                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Thank you,

         9       Senator.

        10                  Madam President, would Senator

        11       Aubertine continue to yield?

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        13       Senator Aubertine, do you continue to yield?

        14                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

        15       President.

        16                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Is there any kind

        17       of cap or limit on CO2 allowances under the

        18       RGGI model?

        19                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    I'm sorry,

        20       Senator, I --

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        22       Senator Young, Senator Aubertine could not

        23       hear you, but it is because there is still

        24       noise in the chamber.  So would you please



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         1       repeat the question?

         2                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Thank you.

         3                  Senator Aubertine, I just wanted to

         4       ask the question, is there any kind of cap or

         5       limit that is in place on CO2 allowances

         6       through the RGGI model?

         7                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Senator,

         8       there is a maximum number of allowances that

         9       they can sell.

        10                  SENATOR YOUNG:    And is there a

        11       funding limit that's in place?  My

        12       understanding is that there isn't in this

        13       under RGGI.

        14                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

        15       Madam President.  Senator, just for clarity,

        16       you're talking about a funding limit on

        17       individual grants?  I believe it's $16,000 for

        18       the loans.

        19                  SENATOR YOUNG:    No, as far as --

        20       I'm sorry, Senator.  Let me clarify.  As far

        21       as the RGGI goes and money going into RGGI.

        22       And, you know, can RGGI just be increased at

        23       any time so that they take more and more and

        24       more money as a tax, basically, on these



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         1       utilities?

         2                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Senator --

         3       through you, Madam President -- there is a

         4       finite number of allowances for the RGGI

         5       program.

         6                  SENATOR YOUNG:    Thank you.

         7                  Thank you, Madam President.  On the

         8       bill.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        10       Senator Young, on the bill.

        11                  SENATOR YOUNG:    While this sounds

        12       like good legislation, has a nice name with

        13       "Green Jobs," I'm very concerned about the

        14       effect that this will have on New York State's

        15       economy.  We already have the highest power

        16       rates in the entire country.  This body levied

        17       the 18A utility tax earlier this year.  We are

        18       losing people and jobs out of the state.  We

        19       are hemorrhaging.  And we need to turn that

        20       situation around.

        21                  As I mentioned earlier, our

        22       farmers, particularly our dairy farmers, are

        23       going out of business.  Every single day there

        24       are scores of farms that are going out of



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         1       business.  That hurts upstate, but that hurts

         2       the entire state because it hurts our economy.

         3                  I have to disagree with my

         4       colleague Senator Aubertine about the

         5       availability of these funds.  Because

         6       basically this is taking $112 million that

         7       NYSERDA already designated on April 27th of

         8       2009 for very significant projects, very

         9       important projects to the economy, very

        10       important projects to the environment.  It's

        11       taking money away from a program that would

        12       reduce emissions by 8.3 million tons.  It's

        13       taking money away from a program that would

        14       save customer energy bills $1 billion.  It's

        15       taking money away from programs that will

        16       create and retain thousands of jobs.  And

        17       you're taking away money from renewable energy

        18       projects like biomass, wind energy, and so on.

        19                  So I believe that this needs to be

        20       changed.  I believe that we should vote this

        21       down.  Because quite honestly, as I said,

        22       there's already $1.5 billion, think about

        23       that, $1.5 billion going toward energy

        24       efficiency programs, going toward



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         1       weatherization programs through the Division

         2       of Housing and Community Renewal.

         3                  And this is money that could be put

         4       to better use to actually go into the economy,

         5       not to duplicate funding that's already there

         6       but to create real jobs by helping farmers,

         7       helping small businesses, manufacturers.

         8                  These bills don't do that, they do

         9       the opposite.  They kill the economy.  And I

        10       would urge a no vote.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        12       Senator Parker.

        13                  SENATOR PARKER:    Thank you, Madam

        14       President.  On the bill.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        16       Senator Parker, on the bill.

        17                  SENATOR PARKER:    Colleagues, this

        18       Green Jobs-Green New York legislation is

        19       extremely important for us.  We right now are

        20       on the precipice of two very significant

        21       disasters.  One is an ecological disaster

        22       that's happening all over our planet with the

        23       disintegration of the ozone layer, with the

        24       greenhouse effect being seen all over the



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         1       world.

         2                  We have the polar icecap melting,

         3       literally, and polar bears drowning because

         4       they can't make it from one ice raft to the

         5       other because now the distance is so far,

         6       because what used to be miles and miles of ice

         7       has now turned back into ocean.  This is

         8       having profound effects on our weather -- in

         9       some places, floods; in other places, severe

        10       droughts.

        11                  You then add that to the greatest

        12       contraction of the economy of the United

        13       States in the history of the United States.

        14       And many of us have been kind of scared to

        15       even talk about that, because the consequences

        16       and the thought of things being worse than

        17       they were in 1932 is really absolutely

        18       terrifying.  And I get that.

        19                  And frankly, the only reason why

        20       we're not in a worse situation than we were

        21       during the Great Depression is simply because

        22       we learned the lessons of the Great Depression

        23       and created a social service safety net with

        24       things like TANF and food stamps and Social



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         1       Security and Social Security insurance and

         2       Medicaid and Medicare and unemployment

         3       insurance.  We have, you know, all of these

         4       mechanisms now to keep people from hitting

         5       rock bottom.

         6                  But the reality that we see right

         7       now is that our economy is in desperate need.

         8       And my colleague Cathy Young even talked about

         9       how is it in fact affecting the upstate

        10       economy.  And she's absolutely right.  And we

        11       in fact talk about the idea of this

        12       contracting economy and one of if not the

        13       greatest thing in terms of our revenues for

        14       the state being agriculture being affected.

        15                  Many of you may not know --

        16       certainly Cathy Young knows, and certainly my

        17       colleague Darryl Aubertine knows, because of

        18       where they're from, that New York State is the

        19       fourth-largest dairy producer in the entire

        20       country.  Sorry, third, I heard.  We moved up

        21       in the last two years.  So we're now the

        22       third-largest dairy producer in the entire

        23       country.  Right?  And so we can't afford, as

        24       Senator Young has indicated, to allow farms to



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         1       go out and to allow our economy just to drop.

         2                  This is one New York.  So when, you

         3       know, Wall Street drops out and, you know,

         4       they have a symbolic sneeze, upstate catches

         5       pneumonia.  And that's essentially the reality

         6       that we're in.

         7                  This Green Jobs-Green New York

         8       legislation brings us to a place where we have

         9       an opportunity to deal with both of our major

        10       crises simultaneously, Madam President.  This

        11       is a program that significantly, appropriately

        12       uses the cap-and-trade program that was

        13       created by this state and that we all should

        14       be very proud of.  We have a cap-and-trade

        15       program that in fact successfully takes our

        16       cash emissions, puts a value on them, creates

        17       a market around them.  And if you're going to

        18       be a polluter in the State of New York, it now

        19       costs you money.

        20                  We have then taken those dollars,

        21       we have put it in a lockbox in NYSERDA, the

        22       New York State Energy Research and Development

        23       Authority, and have now used those dollars to

        24       in fact do programs that help our environment.



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         1       When you talk about RGGI, that's what RGGI is.

         2       RGGI is the Regional Greenhouse Gas

         3       Initiative.  It is in fact not something that

         4       taxes power plants.  It is in fact anybody who

         5       in fact is creating a significant carbon

         6       footprint, defined by the RGGI program, is in

         7       fact subject to be engaged in the RGGI lottery

         8       over buying credits to be a polluter.  You no

         9       longer can pollute for free in the State of

        10       New York.  A model that is so successful that

        11       the federal government is in fact in the

        12       process of looking at nationalizing a program

        13       based on the New York model.

        14                  And so what this legislation does

        15       is, and what I applaud Senator Aubertine on

        16       bringing forward to us today, is an

        17       opportunity to appropriately use the monies

        18       from RGGI to do three critical things.

        19                  First, it is something that

        20       significantly helps our environment because it

        21       creates programs that deal with the largest

        22       sources of carbon emissions in our

        23       communities, which are private homes and power

        24       plants.  The better we can do with insulating



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         1       our homes, the less carbon footprint they

         2       produce and the less carbon footprint the

         3       power plants have to produce in order to

         4       create energy for those areas.

         5                  So this is important.  You know, I

         6       know many of you were rabid over the fight

         7       last year or the year before last on

         8       congestion pricing.  And I know when we talked

         9       about congestion pricing, many of you made the

        10       argument that we have to do something about

        11       the pollution.  And you wanted to slow down

        12       the residential cars that were going into

        13       Manhattan.  The reality is that that was a red

        14       herring.  This is the real deal, folks.  This

        15       is the real deal.

        16                  This bill deals with our carbon

        17       footprint.  Congestion pricing doesn't really

        18       deal with the carbon footprint of Manhattan or

        19       the city.  This deals with the carbon

        20       footprint of our entire state.  By enacting

        21       this legislation, we will have an opportunity

        22       to make many millions of homes over the course

        23       of years -- right?  So if we look at a decade,

        24       we may be able to get 1, 2, 3 million homes



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         1       insulated.

         2                  And what does that mean?  And let

         3       me use technical terms.  What we're going to

         4       be doing is retrofitting homes and making

         5       buildings, particularly residential

         6       buildings -- and that hopefully we'll then

         7       expand it to commercial buildings -- but to

         8       make them high performance.  What does high

         9       performance mean?  High performance means that

        10       you've gotten rid of your wood windows and

        11       those old rickety shades you've got on there

        12       and you now have some good storm windows on

        13       there, and some windows that keep the air out

        14       and keep your warm air in.  And in the summer,

        15       it keeps your cool air in and the hot air out.

        16                  Most people, Madam President, have

        17       enough holes in their home, between little

        18       cracks in the doorways and, believe it or not,

        19       your light switches and the sockets in your

        20       home, you have enough holes in -- not your

        21       home, Madam President, other people's homes.

        22       I'm just saying the average New Yorker has

        23       enough holes in their home that will equal

        24       keeping your window open.  So can you imagine



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         1       being in Watertown in the middle of February

         2       with an open window?  But that's what we have

         3       right now.

         4                  And what this program would allow

         5       us to do is seal those holes in people's

         6       homes.  They would be able to seal their

         7       byways and their ductways.  They would be able

         8       to replace their old incandescent light bulbs

         9       for new compact fluorescents.  They would be

        10       able to get rid of those old water heaters and

        11       those old boilers that they've had for 20 or

        12       30 years and get new state-of-the-art

        13       energy-saver equipment placed in their homes.

        14       They would be able to repair their roofs and

        15       insulate their homes so that the air would not

        16       be just going out willy-nilly and that we

        17       would have an opportunity to in fact save

        18       energy because people would be able to not

        19       have to use as much energy.  And thus it would

        20       reduce our carbon footprint because it

        21       wouldn't take as much coal-burning furnaces to

        22       in fact produce electricity.

        23                  Which now leads me to our second

        24       benefit.  The Green Jobs-Green New York



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         1       legislation has a second benefit in that it

         2       will reduce the energy costs of every single

         3       New Yorker, and particularly those New Yorkers

         4       who in fact are suffering from having the

         5       draftiest homes and who will, under this

         6       program, get their homes retrofitted and be

         7       able to live in high-performance buildings.

         8                  That this retrofitting will in fact

         9       produce homes that save energy.  And I don't

        10       know who in here has constituents who don't

        11       want to save money on their energy bill.  I

        12       think everybody in here, including the

        13       legislators, want to save money on their

        14       energy bills.  This is our opportunity to do

        15       such.

        16                  The third, and it's last but

        17       certainly not least, is that this Green

        18       Jobs-Green New York legislation will produce

        19       upwards of 14,000 jobs across the state.  And

        20       the vast majority of those jobs would in fact

        21       be produced in upstate New York, because in

        22       fact that's where in fact much of the

        23       retrofitting would in fact happen.

        24                  If people decide -- my colleagues,



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         1       if you decide not to vote for this

         2       legislation, you will be blowing an

         3       opportunity to bring jobs to your communities.

         4       And I don't know one person in here who thinks

         5       they have enough jobs in their district.  And

         6       if you do, please let me know what district

         7       you're in so you and I can have some talks

         8       about how I can bring some of those excess

         9       jobs into my district, because I know I

        10       certainly don't have enough jobs in my

        11       community.  And I don't represent a poor

        12       community, but I do know that there are people

        13       who are in fact looking for work.  And I don't

        14       know what legislator in their right mind would

        15       miss an opportunity to increase the number of

        16       jobs that are available.

        17                  Now, we can look at the RGGI pool,

        18       this Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative pool

        19       of money, and we can say, well, let's spend it

        20       on this, let's spend it on that, let's spend

        21       it on this.  We were very specific in the

        22       legislation that created the RGGI program to

        23       make sure that the dollars that were spent out

        24       of RGGI had to be used in a way that was



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         1       consistent with the idea of reducing carbon

         2       footprints and making us have a cleaner

         3       environment.

         4                  This Green Jobs-Green New York

         5       legislation does that.  It produces a set of

         6       activities that reduces the carbon footprint

         7       in the state and at the same time produces

         8       jobs and simultaneously also lowers people's

         9       bills.  And don't take my word for it.  Take

        10       some of your constituents' word for it.

        11                  I have a letter here from the New

        12       Buffalo Impact.  And this was actually a

        13       letter that was sent to Senator Maziarz.  And

        14       I don't see Senator Maziarz here, but I'm sure

        15       he has the letter.  And it says:

        16                  "Dear Senator Maziarz:  New Buffalo

        17       Impact, Inc., is a nonprofit organization

        18       dedicated to residential energy efficiency for

        19       low- and low-to-moderate-income homeowners in

        20       Western New York.  Since 2002, we have

        21       assisted many of your constituents to lower

        22       their high-energy-cost burdens through

        23       providing air sealing, insulation, high

        24       efficiency heating and hot water systems, and



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         1       efficient lights and applications in programs

         2       primarily funded by the New York State Energy

         3       Research and Development Authority, NYSERDA.

         4                  "We would like to thank you for

         5       your cosponsorship and continued support of

         6       the Green Jobs-Green Homes New York

         7       legislation, which is coming up for a vote in

         8       the Senate this week.  We at NBI" -- that's

         9       the New Buffalo Impact -- "strongly support

        10       this legislation, which has the potential to

        11       remove the up-front cost barrier that prevents

        12       so many of New Yorker's middle-income

        13       homeowners from making their houses energy

        14       efficient and to create thousands of green

        15       jobs for New York's workers."

        16                  And that's signed "Sincerely, Brian

        17       M. Paterson, Vice President, New Buffalo

        18       Impact, Inc., 34 Peuquet Parkway, Tonawanda,

        19       New York, 14150."  Phone number (716)

        20       881-1477.  You can find him at

        21       http://www.NewBuffaloImpact.com.

        22                  Right?  So that is a letter that

        23       came to an upstate legislator, to an upstate

        24       Senator, about this idea.



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         1                  This is an important piece of

         2       legislation.  We must have this legislation

         3       and use these dollars in the way that they

         4       were supposed to be used.  And by doing that,

         5       we will free up dollars in other places of our

         6       budget so we can do exactly the things that

         7       Senator Young has proposed.

         8                  I think that what she's saying is

         9       absolutely right.  I think that this funding

        10       source is not the appropriate funding source

        11       to do it.  And I'd be happy to work with her

        12       and our staffs to figure out how we in fact

        13       create more economic opportunity for our dairy

        14       farmers across the state, because they're a

        15       vital part of our economy and we certainly

        16       can't go forward having them fail.

        17                  And so I hope to have, you know, a

        18       celebration with my colleagues across the

        19       state as we bring 14,000 new jobs to our

        20       state, and I'll be voting yes.

        21                  Thank you, Madam President.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        23       Thank you, Senator.

        24                  Are there any other Senators



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         1       wishing to -- Senator Libous.

         2                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you, Madam

         3       President.  Would the sponsor yield to a

         4       couple of questions?

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         6       Senator Aubertine, do you yield?

         7                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

         8       President.

         9                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you, Madam

        10       President.  Through you, Madam President.

        11                  Senator Aubertine, there's a lot of

        12       money here that's going to go in various

        13       places.  Could you share with us what type of

        14       community groups might be receiving this

        15       funding?

        16                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Sure.  In

        17       fact, I've got a list of those groups here

        18       somewhere.  Pardon me.

        19                  Through you, Madam President, I've

        20       got a list of quite a few.  For example, in

        21       Orange County, Orange County Rural Development

        22       Advisory Corporation, Newburgh Community

        23       Improvement Corporation, Community Voices

        24       Heard, Department of Continuing Ed at



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         1       SUNY-Orange.

         2                  Rockland was Rockland BOCES.  In

         3       Suffolk County, Action Long Island.  In my own

         4       district in Watertown, Community Action

         5       Planning.  And a list of organizations such as

         6       that, Senator.

         7                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Madam President,

         8       will he yield for another question?

         9                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

        10       President.

        11                  SENATOR SALAND:    Madam President,

        12       if the gentlemen would suffer an interruption.

        13       I'm not that far from either of them, and --

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        15       Are you finding it difficult to hear?

        16                  SENATOR SALAND:    The chamber

        17       isn't that noisy.  I don't know if it's a

        18       problem with Senator Aubertine's mike.  I've

        19       had a problem hearing him during much of the

        20       debate with Senator Young.  So if it's a mike

        21       problem -- or perhaps he could speak a little

        22       bit louder.  But I have had a problem.  And

        23       now that it's so dead silent, it continues.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:



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         1       Thank you.

         2                  Senator Aubertine, will you

         3       continue to yield?

         4                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

         5       President.

         6                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you.

         7       Madam President, through you.

         8                  Senator Aubertine, what would these

         9       organizations do with this funding?  I mean

        10       what type of energy-efficient green

        11       activities -- and I love that word, by the

        12       way.  That seems to be the buzzword of the

        13       century, "green."  If it's green, it's good.

        14       I don't happen to believe that that's always

        15       the case.

        16                  But anyway, Senator, what type of

        17       green, if you will, activities would they be

        18       funding?

        19                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

        20       Madam President.  Senator, they would

        21       provide -- they would be the workforce that

        22       would provide the activities such as

        23       weatherization, caulking, replacement of

        24       windows, doors, and again, a myriad of



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         1       activities toward weatherization.

         2                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Will you yield

         3       for another question?

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         5       Senator Aubertine, do you continue to yield?

         6                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

         7       President.

         8                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Senator

         9       Aubertine, you listed a number of groups,

        10       Madam President.  If you were to start at the

        11       top of the alphabet, would ACORN be one of

        12       those, Senator?

        13                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

        14       Madam President.  The way the bill is written,

        15       Senator, it's constituency-based

        16       organizations.  And nowhere in the bill do I

        17       see that name -- or any of these other names,

        18       for that matter.  But they are

        19       constituency-based organizations, the names

        20       that I gave you.

        21                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you, Madam

        22       President.  Could I speak on the bill now?

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        24       Senator Libous, on the bill.



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         1                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    I think the

         2       Senator answered my question.  And ACORN poses

         3       to be one of those organizations, Senator

         4       Aubertine.

         5                  One of the reasons why I'm not

         6       going to support this bill -- there are a lot

         7       of reasons.  But one of the reasons is that

         8       organizations like ACORN should not receive

         9       this sort of funding.

        10                  And just recently, Madam President,

        11       on the Times Union blog, 7:45 Thursday --

        12       that's today -- September 10th -- and it's the

        13       Times Union, it's not Fox News, it's the Times

        14       Union reported this, that "The group ACORN has

        15       fired two employees who were seen on

        16       hidden-camera video giving tax advice to a man

        17       posing as a pimp and a woman who pretended to

        18       be a prostitute.  On the video, a man and

        19       woman visiting ACORN's Baltimore office asked

        20       about buying a house and how to account on tax

        21       forms for the woman's income.  An ACORN

        22       employee advised the woman to list her

        23       occupation as performance artist."  I find

        24       that interesting.



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         1                  "The pair also claimed they planned

         2       to employ teenage girls from Central America

         3       as prostitutes.  An ACORN employee suggested

         4       that up to three of the girls could be claimed

         5       as dependents, according to transcripts of the

         6       video posted online."

         7                  Madam President, that's what

         8       disturbs me about this legislation.  It's an

         9       awful lot of money.  There are groups and

        10       organizations that are going to get this money

        11       and do exactly what ACORN has done.  And I

        12       believe that ACORN will be one of the groups.

        13       Although as Senator Aubertine says, it's not

        14       in the bill, I don't believe that.  I believe

        15       they will be one of those, quote, community

        16       groups.  They seem to be one of the biggest

        17       ones in the country.  Therefore, I believe

        18       they're going to get this money.

        19                  That's wrong.  Their activities are

        20       wrong.  What they stand for is wrong.  And to

        21       preach this sort of information is wrong.  To

        22       use taxpayer money -- and that's what this is.

        23       This is taxpayer money.  I don't care if it

        24       comes from NYSERDA or wherever it comes from,



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         1       it's taxpayer money.

         2                  You know, we talked about the money

         3       in the 2 percent energy charge, about

         4       $632 million.  Why not give it back to the

         5       taxpayer?  Why give it to these community

         6       groups?  Why not give it directly back to the

         7       taxpayer?  What a novel idea.

         8                  I think there's probably, if we all

         9       went back to our districts and knocked on

        10       doors and asked the taxpayers, "Would you like

        11       us to give this back to you or should we give

        12       it to these community groups, ACORN possibly

        13       being one of them?" -- and I guess the

        14       response would be overwhelming.  I'm sure it

        15       wouldn't be 100 percent, but I would guess it

        16       would be in the 80 percentile that they would

        17       say "Give it back to me, don't give it to one

        18       of these organizations."

        19                  This disturbs me immensely.  We all

        20       should be disturbed by organizations like

        21       ACORN for the way they perform and spend

        22       taxpayer dollars.  And I will not be on record

        23       as giving them a nickel -- or a penny, for

        24       that matter -- to help do some of the



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         1       ridiculous things that they've done.

         2                  Thank you, Madam President.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         4       Thank you, Senator.

         5                  Senator Nozzolio.

         6                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you,

         7       Madam President.  Will the sponsor yield?

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         9       Senator Aubertine, will you yield for a

        10       question?

        11                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

        12       President.

        13                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you,

        14       Madam President.  Thank you, Senator

        15       Aubertine.

        16                  Senator Aubertine, I have one

        17       question.  And that question is whether or not

        18       the wages paid to those who are putting in and

        19       doing the work under this bill, are those

        20       wages -- that are paid for by state taxpayers'

        21       dollars -- established at the prevailing rate?

        22                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

        23       Madam President, no.

        24                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Thank you,



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         1       Senator Aubertine, for yielding.

         2                  Madam President, on the bill.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         4       Senator Nozzolio, on the bill.

         5                  SENATOR NOZZOLIO:    Madam

         6       President, listening to Senator Libous and

         7       Senator Young in debating this bill, it's

         8       become very clear that this legislative body

         9       is again "do what I say but don't do what I

        10       do."

        11                  This body, particularly the

        12       Democrats on the other side of the aisle, have

        13       been pushing time and again to establish

        14       prevailing rate, establishing every state job,

        15       every job that's done with state funds be paid

        16       for at the prevailing labor rate.  Now we have

        17       hundreds of millions of dollars of projects

        18       out there that does not qualify for the

        19       prevailing wage rate in the region.

        20                  To sum up, Madam President, this

        21       will take money away from the energy consumer,

        22       jobs away from renewable energy projects like

        23       wind and solar, establish those that are in

        24       clean coal operations -- and we have many of



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         1       those in upstate New York, where many jobs are

         2       utilized and many jobs are the beneficiaries

         3       of, not to mention biomass and other types of

         4       experimental renewables -- basically taking

         5       money away from the consumer, taking money

         6       away from all of those projects.

         7                  Why?  Well, as Senator Libous

         8       pointed out, so that ACORN can go across the

         9       state and put up storm windows.  Now, how does

        10       that make any sense?  And not even at the

        11       prevailing rate.  So that those who are in

        12       this business, who do this work, who do it

        13       very professionally are not going to get the

        14       opportunity to provide their trade and do the

        15       work that normally is done by those

        16       construction workers who do this on an

        17       everyday basis.

        18                  Madam President, this may be

        19       well-named in terms of a legislation.  "Green

        20       jobs" certainly sound goods.  But this doesn't

        21       establish green jobs, this takes jobs away.

        22       It takes jobs away from those in our state who

        23       are producing the work and need those jobs

        24       desperately, particularly in upstate.



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         1                  It may be very well-intentioned,

         2       Madam President, but it misses the mark, and

         3       that's why we have to oppose it.

         4                  Thank you very much.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         6       Thank you, Senator.

         7                  Senator Little.

         8                  SENATOR LITTLE:    Thank you, Madam

         9       President.  Would the sponsor yield for a few

        10       questions?  And I will try to be brief.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        12       Senator Aubertine, do you yield?

        13                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

        14       President.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        16       Senator Little.

        17                  SENATOR LITTLE:    Thank you.

        18       Senator Aubertine, can you explain how this

        19       program differs from the programs that our

        20       housing departments have and NYSERDA already

        21       has regarding weatherization for those who are

        22       income-eligible?

        23                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Sure.

        24       Through you, Madam President, this program



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         1       reaches out to middle-income New Yorkers,

         2       where the programs that you're referring to

         3       through DHCR reach out to lower-income

         4       New Yorkers.

         5                  SENATOR LITTLE:    So this is an

         6       expansion of existing programs, basically?

         7                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

         8       Madam President, no.  I wouldn't construe this

         9       as an expansion of an existing program.

        10                  What this is is a utilization of

        11       carbon credit dollars to weatherize homes,

        12       housing stock in your district, my district,

        13       and all across New York State, to be much more

        14       fuel-efficient, to conserve energy, to

        15       conservative energy dollars, to provide jobs.

        16       There have been estimates from creating

        17       upwards of 15,000.  The estimates range from

        18       5,000 to 15,000 jobs across the state.

        19                  So no, Senator, I wouldn't construe

        20       this as an expansion of existing programs.

        21                  SENATOR LITTLE:    Thank you.

        22                  And through you, Madam President,

        23       another question.  In the bill they refer to

        24       the authority.  Are they talking about



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         1       NYSERDA?

         2                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes.  That's

         3       identified right there on --

         4                  SENATOR LITTLE:    So it's not a

         5       new authority that's being formed?

         6                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    No, Senator.

         7       Through you, Madam President.

         8                  SENATOR LITTLE:    So there is an

         9       expansion -- through you, Madam President, if

        10       I might ask -- an expansion of the work of

        11       NYSERDA and certainly of the need for staffing

        12       for the accountability portion.  There's a

        13       whole training section.  There has to be money

        14       for training, for energy-audit people to go to

        15       be able to go out and do these energy audits.

        16                  Could I ask where that money is

        17       coming from?  Is that all coming out of the

        18       $112 million that was referred to before?

        19                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

        20       Madam President, yes.  And it is identified in

        21       the bill.  There is a maximum of 7 percent.

        22                  SENATOR LITTLE:    Do you know --

        23       through you, Madam President -- Senator

        24       Aubertine, what the percentage of that



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         1       $112 million is going to be for overhead, for

         2       training, for administration, for reporting,

         3       for all the work that NYSERDA now has to do to

         4       do this program?

         5                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

         6       Madam President.  Again, NYSERDA will

         7       determine that through their rule-making

         8       process.

         9                  SENATOR LITTLE:    Another

        10       question, if I may.  Through you, Madam

        11       President.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        13       Senator Aubertine, do you continue to yield?

        14                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

        15       President.

        16                  SENATOR LITTLE:    Thank you.

        17                  In part of the bill I read that

        18       this money is going to be combined with some

        19       federal stimulus money and some private

        20       investment money.  Where would the private

        21       investment money be coming from?

        22                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

        23       Madam President, it really can come from any

        24       source.  There's really no limitation on it.



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         1       However, it could come from private investors

         2       who want to access in --

         3                  SENATOR LITTLE:    Thank you.  If I

         4       may, Senator Aubertine, that leads to the

         5       question, then, if you spend all of this money

         6       on the $112 million through the training and

         7       all of the programs setting it up, has anyone

         8       found these private investors?  Or do you know

         9       that there will be additional funding coming

        10       into the program to pay for the actual

        11       weatherization?

        12                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

        13       Madam President, I'm being told that there are

        14       existing venture capitalists who would

        15       participate in this program.

        16                  SENATOR LITTLE:    Thank you.

        17       Another question, if I may.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        19       Do you continue to yield, Senator?

        20                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

        21       President.

        22                  SENATOR LITTLE:    This is

        23       basically a loan program, and the money gets

        24       paid back.  The up-front money comes from the



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         1       state source, and the money is supposed to be

         2       paid back through 80 percent of the energy

         3       savings on their heating bill.

         4                  So how is that figured, and who

         5       goes and figures all that?  Because one place

         6       here it said the energy -- if it could be

         7       determined, the amount of energy that was

         8       saved -- "to the extent possible, a

         9       calculation of energy savings is achieved."

        10       So how is the money going to be paid back?

        11                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

        12       Madam President.  Before the work is done,

        13       there's an audit done on the proposed work to

        14       be done, and that money is then paid back

        15       through on-bill finance.

        16                  SENATOR LITTLE:    But there has to

        17       be an energy savings.  The idea is if their

        18       power bill was $100 a month and it is now $60

        19       a month, 80 percent of that $40 savings

        20       apparently is going back into this fund where

        21       the money came from.  Correct?

        22                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

        23       Madam President, that's correct.  It goes back

        24       to pay back the loan.



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         1                  SENATOR LITTLE:    And what if

         2       there isn't any savings?  Because it's only a

         3       10-year program, and it stays with the house

         4       regardless of whether the person sold it or

         5       not.  Supposing their $100 power bill only

         6       went down to $90?

         7                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

         8       Madam President.  I'm not sure how to answer

         9       that other than to say, Senator, that, you

        10       know, it's proven that to weatherize housing

        11       stock, you do an audit to determine whether or

        12       not it's feasible.  And then any of the

        13       savings that you have clearly would go with

        14       the house.

        15                  SENATOR LITTLE:    I know what

        16       you're trying to say in the answer.  But the

        17       person could use more energy, too, even though

        18       the weatherization helped.  Now they have the

        19       ability to use more energy, and their power

        20       bill doesn't go down.

        21                  I'm concerned about where the

        22       savings are going to be that goes back into

        23       the fund.  And are there really venture

        24       capitalists who are going to invest in this



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         1       program based on that accountability?

         2                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Again,

         3       through you, Madam President, it's my

         4       understanding that there are venture

         5       capitalists who are willing to invest in this

         6       program.

         7                  And as far as the savings, I

         8       believe overall, you know, if we're looking at

         9       upwards of a million homes in housing stock

        10       across the state that you will see a

        11       substantial savings.

        12                  SENATOR LITTLE:    Thank you.  And

        13       an additional question, if I may.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        15       Senator Aubertine, do you continue to yield?

        16                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

        17       President.

        18                  SENATOR LITTLE:    And Senator

        19       Young touched on this before.  You and I have

        20       comparable districts, and I believe we

        21       represent the coldest part of the state, most

        22       likely.  How can we ensure that the awards as

        23       a whole reflect the geographic diversity?  Is

        24       it just geographic diversity, or are we going



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         1       to add in need, such as temperatures and

         2       heating costs and amount of energy needed to

         3       heat a home into this formula?

         4                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

         5       Madam President.  Senator, you'll find that on

         6       page 4, line 44B.  It will give performance in

         7       awards to applicants that include significant

         8       participation by minority and women-owned

         9       business enterprises and to applicants to

        10       serve economically distressed communities.

        11                  And I've got a list of some of

        12       those communities right here.  In the county

        13       per-capita income below $30,892, it was

        14       Chautauqua, Cattaraugus, Allegany, Genesee,

        15       Wyoming, Livingston, Yates, Schuyler, Chemung,

        16       Cayuga, Seneca, Tompkins, Chenango, Cortland,

        17       Tioga, Oneida, Madison, Delaware, Otsego,

        18       Herkimer, Hamilton, Washington and Greene

        19       counties, just to name a few.

        20                  SENATOR LITTLE:    Thank you.  But

        21       there really is no guarantee that this is

        22       going to be distributed according to heating

        23       needs and energy needs as much as it's going

        24       to be distributed according to larger cities



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         1       and more people who can apply for this

         2       program.

         3                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

         4       Madam President, no, I wouldn't agree with

         5       that, Senator.

         6                  I think that it's going to without

         7       a doubt be based on need and income and

         8       certainly areas of the state that have high

         9       energy costs.

        10                  SENATOR LITTLE:    Thank you.

        11                  And, Senator Aubertine, one other

        12       question.  Are there restrictions on who can

        13       be hired to do the work and the weatherization

        14       and then these programs or who can do the

        15       energy audits as far as who the workforce will

        16       be?

        17                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes.  Through

        18       you, Madam President.  They have to be

        19       certified under the Building Performance

        20       Institute.  And I had a list right here.

        21                  SENATOR LITTLE:    But there are no

        22       restrictions other than a certification?

        23                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Right.  There

        24       are protocols that are in place at NYSERDA.



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         1       And there are -- I do have a list, Senator,

         2       and I will share that with you if you'd like,

         3       of over 150 contractors that are already

         4       listed.

         5                  SENATOR LITTLE:    Thank you.

         6                  One other question.  I keep saying

         7       that, and I promise I'm getting to the end.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         9       Senator Aubertine, do you continue to yield?

        10                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

        11       President.

        12                  SENATOR LITTLE:    Recently the

        13       Governor vetoed a bill that would provide some

        14       funding for an 1812 Commission and celebration

        15       throughout the state that would bring tourism

        16       to the state and do all of that, and he cited

        17       the economic condition of the state right now.

        18                  Have you had any kind of commitment

        19       from the Governor that he would be willing to

        20       support a program like this that extends and

        21       enlarges training programs, energy-audit

        22       training, accountability programs for these

        23       amounts of money throughout?

        24                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,



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         1       Madam President.  By the way, the 1812 bill

         2       happened to be my bill.

         3                  (Laughter.)

         4                  SENATOR LITTLE:    I didn't realize

         5       that.  But are we headed the same direction?

         6                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    But the

         7       Governor did have this legislation on his

         8       special-session agenda back in June.  And so

         9       my assumption would be that he is certainly

        10       supportive of it.

        11                  SENATOR LITTLE:    Thank you,

        12       Senator Aubertine.

        13                  If I may, on the bill.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        15       Senator Little, on the bill.

        16                  SENATOR LITTLE:    Representing a

        17       very rural area and very cold temperatures and

        18       very long winters, believe me, I believe that

        19       weatherization and programs to help people be

        20       more energy efficient is very important.

        21                  But I feel -- and I have read this

        22       bill and thought about it considerably.  But I

        23       think that in this bill there's an awful lot

        24       of money that's going to go to training,



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         1       administration, trying to account for any kind

         2       of heating savings for this loan program and

         3       all of this, and that it really pretty much

         4       duplicates what we already have from DHCR and

         5       from our weatherization programs and from what

         6       NYSERDA is already doing.

         7                  Therefore, I reluctantly am going

         8       to vote no on this bill.  Thank you.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        10       Thank you, Senator.

        11                  Senator DeFrancisco.

        12                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Thank you,

        13       Madam President.  Would Senator Aubertine

        14       yield to a few questions?

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        16       Senator Aubertine, will you yield for some

        17       questions?

        18                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

        19       President.

        20                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    The way

        21       this bill reads is the competitive grants for

        22       outreach, enrollment and related services

        23       shall be granted after RFPs are sent out, in

        24       order to solicit applications from



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         1       partnerships or consortia comprised of

         2       constituency-based organizations.

         3                  What's the role of the

         4       constituency-based organization?

         5                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

         6       Madam President, the role would be to become

         7       certified and to become eligible to provide

         8       those services.

         9                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    To provide

        10       what services?

        11                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    To provide

        12       the weatherization services.

        13                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Would the

        14       Senator continue to yield?

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        16       Senator, do you continue to yield?

        17                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

        18       President.

        19                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    You

        20       indicated that there are already contractors

        21       that are listed that are certified to do these

        22       types of weatherizing services.  Is that

        23       correct?

        24                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,



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         1       Madam President, yes.

         2                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Would

         3       Senator Aubertine yield to another question?

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         5       Senator Aubertine, will you yield?

         6                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

         7       President.

         8                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Why do we

         9       need another layer of consortia and

        10       constituency-based services when we have

        11       contractors that don't have business, we have

        12       an economy that is in distress, and we have

        13       counties and cities and state organizations

        14       that certainly can publicize the availability

        15       of money for weatherizing, and we've got

        16       contractors out there that can do the work?

        17                  Why do we need a middleperson, a

        18       constituency-based organization to siphon off

        19       some of the money that could go to

        20       weatherizing?

        21                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

        22       Madam President.  Senator, the size and scope

        23       of what we're trying to accomplish here is

        24       great, to say the least.  The idea of



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         1       weatherizing a million homes and small

         2       businesses all across this state, we don't

         3       have enough contractors in place, I believe,

         4       at this point in time.

         5                  And if an organization, if a

         6       company chooses to step forward and be a

         7       contractor under NYSERDA and provide that

         8       service anywhere in the state, you know, it's

         9       certainly a big need at this point.

        10                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Would the

        11       Senator continue to yield.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        13       Senator Aubertine, do you continue to yield?

        14                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

        15       President.

        16                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Do these

        17       community-based organizations that are

        18       siphoning off some of this money pay taxes,

        19       like independent contractors that actually

        20       perform services of weatherizing?

        21                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

        22       Madam President, yes.

        23                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    They do.

        24       And may I ask him another question?  Will he



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         1       yield?

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         3       Senator Aubertine, do you continue to yield?

         4                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

         5       President.

         6                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    So under

         7       this bill we would be assured that

         8       community-based organizations that are

         9       eligible for these grants would have to be

        10       taxpaying entities; is that correct?

        11                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

        12       Madam President, yes, I believe many of them

        13       would be.  I've got a list of a lot of

        14       organizations, such as David B. Lee & Co.,

        15       Inc., Allen Kulik, Kasper Construction, Kevin

        16       Rich Construction, Jeff Hills Construction,

        17       Durham Construction, Energy Doors, Zero Draft

        18       of Central New York.  Many of these you may

        19       recognize; they're all from your district,

        20       Senator.

        21                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    May I

        22       ask -- would he accept another question,

        23       please.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:



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         1       Senator Aubertine, do you continue to yield?

         2                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

         3       President.

         4                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    The

         5       question wasn't whether some organization may

         6       pay taxes.  My question was simply these

         7       community-based organizations, or

         8       constituency-based -- whatever that means --

         9       organizations, does the bill provide that

        10       these people who will be receiving some of

        11       these funds are taxpaying entities?

        12                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

        13       Madam President.  Senator, anyone who is

        14       compensated in this state, for the most part,

        15       pays taxes.  I'm sure you're aware of that.

        16       So anyone that has a job providing

        17       weatherization or any other service in this

        18       state certainly pays taxes.

        19                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Would

        20       Senator Aubertine yield to another question.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        22       Senator Aubertine, do you continue to yield?

        23                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

        24       President.



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         1                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Isn't there

         2       a function of the community-based

         3       organizations that they could be organizations

         4       that facilitate the weatherization or provide

         5       information to get to people that the

         6       weatherization monies are out there?  Isn't

         7       that part of what is contemplated by this bill

         8       for the constituency-based organizations to

         9       do?

        10                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

        11       Madam President, in order to help the Senator

        12       better understand --

        13                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Excuse me.

        14       I understand it fully.  I'm asking for an

        15       answer.

        16                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

        17       Madam President.  Let me read just for the

        18       record, then, what a community-based

        19       organization means.

        20                  A community-based organization

        21       means an organization incorporated for the

        22       purpose of providing services or other

        23       assistance to economically or socially

        24       disadvantaged persons within a specific



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         1       community and which is supported by or whose

         2       actions are directed by members of the

         3       community in which it operates.

         4                  Now, Senator, I don't know how much

         5       plainer we could make it as to what the

         6       function of a community-based operation is.

         7       And I don't fully understand where your line

         8       of questioning is headed.  Maybe if you could

         9       get directly to the point.

        10                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Well, I

        11       will, if he answers another question.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        13       Senator Aubertine, do you continue to yield?

        14                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

        15       President.

        16                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    The

        17       definition that you just gave of

        18       community-based organization included

        19       providing other services to the disadvantaged.

        20       That doesn't mean they have to provide

        21       weatherization services, does it?  It could be

        22       facilitating their understanding of the

        23       program.  It could be providing awareness of

        24       the program, not putting in some type of



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         1       change to a home that's going to make it more

         2       weathertight.  Is that correct?

         3                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

         4       Madam President.  Yes, that's correct.

         5                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    All right.

         6       Now, would he answer another question so he

         7       knows that I clearly understand this bill.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         9       Senator Aubertine, do you continue to yield?

        10                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Yes, Madam

        11       President.

        12                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Do all

        13       constituency-based organizations that are

        14       eligible under this bill pay taxes if they

        15       provide awareness to the community, facilitate

        16       information to the disadvantaged about the

        17       program, or do these other services that

        18       constituency-based organizations can do under

        19       this bill, as opposed to actually doing the

        20       weatherizing?

        21                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

        22       Madam President, yes.

        23                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    And that's

        24       a requirement of the bill?



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         1                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Through you,

         2       Madam President.  No, Senator, it's not a

         3       requirement of the bill.  However, it is a

         4       requirement of the tax code.  If you make

         5       money in New York State, you got to pay taxes.

         6                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Pardon me?

         7                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    It is a

         8       requirement of the tax code.  If you make

         9       money in New York State, you've got to pay

        10       taxes.

        11                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    On the

        12       bill, please.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        14       Senator DeFrancisco, on the bill.

        15                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    You know,

        16       we're in a recession right now.  And just

        17       because -- or coming out of one, or whatever

        18       the pundits say.  To just label a bill a Green

        19       Jobs-Green New York Act doesn't mean that it's

        20       a good bill.  To call something green -- we've

        21       got a contractor in our county that gets green

        22       money and paints the inside of his mall green

        23       with that money.  I mean, calling something

        24       green doesn't make it so and doesn't make it



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         1       the best way to do it.

         2                  Weatherizing is a good thing.  But

         3       why would you require money to be siphoned off

         4       to community-based organizations to facilitate

         5       the program, to give information to people

         6       because it's a big program?  It seems to me

         7       we've got counties, we've got all kinds of

         8       government units.

         9                  This particular body passed

        10       Attorney General Cuomo's bill to consolidate

        11       government organizations or agencies because

        12       we've got too much bureaucracy.  Why would you

        13       not, if this is a good bill and you want to

        14       divert this money the way the bill diverts it,

        15       why don't you just advertise and provide

        16       information through all the state

        17       organizations, through NYSERDA and everybody

        18       else, we've got a program that's going to be

        19       beneficial that's going to pay for some of

        20       your weatherizing so that we can save money

        21       and we reduce the carbon whatever it's called,

        22       footprint.

        23                  It would seem to me that those

        24       contractors that are already in the business



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         1       would be more than happy to accommodate -- you

         2       don't need anybody to facilitate anything.

         3       You need people to actually do the work.  And

         4       if there's so much work because it's such a

         5       magnificently big amount of money, which it

         6       is, don't you think they'd hire more people

         7       and those people would pay taxes and you would

         8       get the weatherizing and the benefit of the

         9       green stuff without another bureaucracy of

        10       people explaining things and giving notices

        11       out?

        12                  We've got plenty of people to give

        13       notices out and explain things.  And

        14       community-based organizations, many are

        15       not-for-profit.  Make the money go to people

        16       who are working who will pay taxes, not people

        17       who are advising and facilitating.  When

        18       you've got every county government that would

        19       clearly advertise this program.  You've got

        20       contractors that would hire people if there

        21       was money out there to do the weatherizing

        22       rather than siphoning money off the top.

        23                  Green jobs, green buildings, very,

        24       very important.  Use the money for what the



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         1       intended purpose is.  Not to satisfy different

         2       organizations who may benefit from it that

         3       have no relationship whatsoever to providing

         4       the ultimate service that can be provided by

         5       the private small businesses that are now

         6       struggling.  Housing is down, home building is

         7       down.  There's people out there looking to do

         8       this type of work.

         9                  So, Senator Aubertine, I understand

        10       the bill.  I fully understand the bill.  And I

        11       understand there's going to be a lot of money

        12       paid to organizations that are nonprofit and

        13       aren't going to pay a nickel in taxes, that

        14       aren't going to do a dime's worth of work that

        15       is going to improve anybody's building.  It

        16       might satisfy a constituency, and I'm

        17       wondering what constituency bases we're really

        18       talking about.  The name ACORN was mentioned.

        19       I've got a feeling they might see some of

        20       this, and some of the organizations that may

        21       be helpful to one side or another in the

        22       political process.  But that doesn't create

        23       green buildings.  It creates maybe the

        24       constituency base that you're looking for, not



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         1       help to the economy.

         2                  That's why this bill, in my

         3       judgment, is wrong.  Others have given other

         4       reasons that are also valid.  And that's why

         5       I'm going to vote no on this bill.  Not

         6       because I'm antigreen or not because I don't

         7       believe in buildings being made weatherproof.

         8       I mean, use the money for the purpose and

         9       don't create another bureaucracy that's not

        10       needed for people.

        11                  And if you think -- you're a

        12       small-businessman, Senator Aubertine.  I guess

        13       you're still a farmer.  You don't need a

        14       community-based group to say you can get your

        15       barn weatherized.  If a program comes out,

        16       it's going to be publicized.  You don't need

        17       somebody to facilitate that.  And if you're

        18       low-income, you don't need it either.  There's

        19       plenty of organizations in the county dealing

        20       with people who are lower-income that could

        21       make this known.  There's existing

        22       organizations that we pay money for.

        23                  So I'm going to vote no for those

        24       reasons and also because I do fully understand



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         1       the bill and it's not going to use the money

         2       for the purpose that it should be using it

         3       for.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         5       Thank you, Senator.

         6                  Senator Schneiderman.

         7                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

         8       Madam President.  I want to commend Senator

         9       Aubertine.

        10                  I have to say, listening to this

        11       debate, I'm kind of puzzled.  This bill passed

        12       the Assembly unanimously.  Let me go over what

        13       I think this bill does.  Because if Senator

        14       DeFrancisco truly understands the bill, then I

        15       do not understand the bill, because we seem to

        16       be reading it very differently.

        17                  This program is in my view a very,

        18       intelligently designed program, and I believe

        19       that's why all of our Republican colleagues in

        20       the other house voted for it, along with all

        21       the other Democrats.  The idea here is it

        22       takes an existing pool of money and if you

        23       have a problem with the RGGI program, with the

        24       idea that we should make an effort to reduce



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         1       greenhouse gas emissions by creating a

         2       market-based incentive -- this is a

         3       Ronald-Reagan-era-type program, to create an

         4       incentive for the private sector to reduce its

         5       emissions by having to buy allowances.  They

         6       pool their money together.

         7                  And the money is not, you know,

         8       just there for any purpose.  You're saying,

         9       Oh, why don't you just give it back in taxes?

        10       The point of this fund is to be used to reduce

        11       greenhouse gas emissions, to make us more

        12       energy efficient, to enable us to use less

        13       energy.  It's something that you keep in the

        14       energy sector so that the polluters, who pay

        15       because they pollute -- they make money from

        16       the pollution, from the greenhouse gas

        17       emissions -- are chipping in to help mitigate

        18       the problem.

        19                  They take this money, there are a

        20       lot of good programs that NYSERDA wanted to

        21       spend this money on to reduce pollution, to

        22       come up with new technologies.  But we are in

        23       an economic crisis, ladies and gentlemen.

        24       What this Green Jobs-Green New York program



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         1       does is it says in addition to the other

         2       research and things NYSERDA wants to do -- and

         3       NYSERDA has endorsed this program, this

         4       proposal in this bill, as consistent with

         5       everything it's trying to accomplish -- in

         6       addition to the other work, let's create a

         7       program to create jobs.  Let's create a

         8       program to help New Yorkers struggling in this

         9       recession.

        10                  So what does this program do?  It

        11       creates funds for training, funds to ensure

        12       that people enroll in the program.  Because

        13       with all due respect, there are a lot of

        14       people who do not sign up for programs they

        15       are eligible for.

        16                  And I want to say, a lot of people

        17       are picking on ACORN for whatever reason.

        18       There are maybe people associated with ACORN

        19       who have committed misdeeds somewhere in the

        20       United States.  There are people associated

        21       with the New York State Legislature who have

        22       committed misdeeds.  I don't think that that

        23       means it's all bad.

        24                  And I will tell you this.  From my



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         1       own experience, ACORN has done a lot of good

         2       work in my district signing people up for

         3       programs they were eligible for and they did

         4       not know they were eligible for, including the

         5       earned income tax credit.

         6                  So maybe some community groups --

         7       and it includes a lot of community groups, and

         8       a lot of religious organizations are going to

         9       be applying for this, to help people know that

        10       they can get a loan, if you're a homeowner,

        11       through this program.  And then you use that

        12       money to hire a contractor to come in, they do

        13       an audit, they weatherize your house.  It's a

        14       program that pays for itself over time, but

        15       does require a homeowner to go get a loan, or

        16       a small business owner.

        17                  But this is a program that produces

        18       jobs, it saves us money on energy by going

        19       into people's homes and small businesses and

        20       saving them money on their bills.  It reduced

        21       the demand for electricity.  So even if my

        22       home is not participating, I'm not

        23       participating in the program, the reduced

        24       demand for electricity makes electricity rates



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         1       go down.  We all benefit.

         2                  I've got to tell you, I think this

         3       is a really well designed program.  I think

         4       Senator Aubertine and his colleagues who have

         5       worked on this have done on a good job.

         6                  And I have to say, with regard to

         7       the issue that that has been raised about

         8       where this program is going to work, in my

         9       view this program is actually quite heavily

        10       tilted towards upstate New York.  It deals

        11       with residential housing.  And it is geared

        12       particularly not to the lowest-income

        13       New Yorkers -- and the Weatherization

        14       Assistance Program, which this supplements,

        15       did a lot of work in communities of extreme

        16       poverty in inner cities.  This will be more

        17       useful to people of more moderate means.

        18                  And in fact, if you look at the

        19       analysis, the number of homes eligible for

        20       weatherization under the Green Jobs-Green

        21       New York program is really actually higher in

        22       a lot of your districts than it is in mine.

        23       Senator Young, you have over 40,000 homes in

        24       your district that would be eligible for this



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         1       program -- if through your good community

         2       organizations they know they're eligible and

         3       sign up.  Senator Marcellino has 51,000.

         4       Senator Maziarz, 41,000.

         5                  So the program is going to be

         6       geared -- and I would also like --

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         8       Senator DeFrancisco, why do you rise?

         9                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I'm

        10       requesting if Senator Schneiderman would

        11       yield.

        12                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Madam

        13       President, I'll be glad to yield as soon as I

        14       finish this paragraph.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        16       Thank you, Senator Schneiderman.

        17                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you.

        18                  I just had an idea that I should

        19       cut my remarks short.

        20                  (Laughter.)

        21                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Oh, thank

        22       you, Senator Diaz.  Thank you, Senator Diaz.

        23                  I just want to close, Madam

        24       President, by noting that this program, which



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         1       will create jobs for the 21st-century economy,

         2       will use the RGGI funds consistent with

         3       NYSERDA's purpose to help reduce energy costs,

         4       is specifically targeted to communities in

         5       areas where energy costs are particularly high

         6       in relation to a measure of median household

         7       income.

         8                  Senator Young, that's your

         9       district.  Senator Little, that's your

        10       district.  Senator Robach, yes, that is your

        11       district as well.

        12                  This is a program that will benefit

        13       people all across the state, largely in

        14       upstate New York -- it's appropriate Senator

        15       Squadron is sponsoring it.  And I cannot

        16       imagine a better use of these funds.  If

        17       you're concerned about the lack of RGGI

        18       funding for other programs, which some people

        19       have expressed, I think then you have to be

        20       sure to vote for the chapter amendment, which

        21       will ensure that further RGGI auctions take

        22       place and we have additional funding.

        23                  This is a great program, ladies and

        24       gentlemen.  All your colleagues -- every



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         1       Assembly member didn't vote for this because

         2       someone is sneaking around.  This is a

         3       well-designed program that will generate jobs,

         4       save energy, and I hope you will all support

         5       it.

         6                  And now, Madam President, if

         7       Senator DeFrancisco is still anxious to

         8       engage, I'd be happy to yield.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        10       Thank you.

        11                  Senator DeFrancisco, do you still

        12       wish for Senator Schneiderman to yield?

        13                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes.  Very

        14       simply, if you've got a list of all the

        15       homeowners that are eligible, I've got an

        16       idea.  Would you consider this idea?  Instead

        17       of having community-based organizations, why

        18       don't you just send them a letter and tell

        19       them by letter that you're eligible for this

        20       program and this is how you apply and here's

        21       the eligible list of contractors.  Would that

        22       make any sense to you?  That's my question.

        23                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Through

        24       you, Madam President.  It has been



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         1       demonstrated to be extremely ineffective.  And

         2       I think that we should stick with what works.

         3       Just as using existing contractors and labor

         4       unions to do the training and weatherization,

         5       let's use the organizations that are good at

         6       signing people of moderate means up for

         7       programs.

         8                  This program uses the existing

         9       organizations in our state to create jobs and

        10       save energy.  It doesn't create any new

        11       bureaucracies.  It uses everything that works.

        12       I don't want to create a new letter-writing

        13       bureaucracy.  Let's do this.  Let's pass this

        14       bill.

        15                  Thank you, Madam President.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        17       Are there any other Senators wishing to speak

        18       on the bill?

        19                  Senator Owen Johnson.

        20                  SENATOR OWEN JOHNSON:    Yes, I'd

        21       like to speak a little bit on the bill.

        22                  You know, we've spent a lot of time

        23       talking about spending money, giving out money

        24       that we don't have.  This state is in debt



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         1       $2 billion, $2 trillion, whatever it is --

         2       $1.2 billion right now.  It will be over

         3       $4 billion next.  We're in debt.  We don't

         4       have any money to give away.

         5                  The federal government is even in

         6       worse shape than we are.  They owe

         7       $1.6 trillion so far.  A lot of that is owed

         8       to China and foreign borrowers who loaned the

         9       money to us.  We have to pay hundreds of

        10       millions of dollars every month out, federal

        11       money, which is our money, to the people we

        12       borrowed the money for.  And we're talking

        13       about spending money that we don't have.

        14                  That's really totally

        15       irresponsible.  We're in the middle of a

        16       depression, recession.  It's not getting any

        17       better.  People say yeah, stocks are up a

        18       little bit.  A little bit from last year,

        19       where it was down 50 percent, so now it's only

        20       down 65 percent.

        21                  So the economy is not doing great.

        22       And we don't know, many people don't know if

        23       they can keep their home.  We're still losing

        24       homes.  Even though the economy may be picking



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         1       up a little, there's more people unemployed

         2       every month.

         3                  So you have to realize this.  Don't

         4       spend money we don't have.  Tell the federal

         5       government, look, if you've got a couple of

         6       hundred million dollars, pay your damn bills

         7       and all, and we'll have to keep the money we

         8       have to pay our bills off and not start any

         9       new programs, spending money like a drunken

        10       sailor that we don't have.

        11                  You have to realize we're in a

        12       serious situation and we can't keep spending,

        13       can't keep buying votes with this and that and

        14       the other thing.  In fact, we've had a lot of

        15       these programs already, weatherization, we've

        16       had them over many years, and a lot of

        17       programs will be done already.

        18                  So I don't think there's any great

        19       need for that program.  Somebody might need a

        20       bill that gets to spend some money, give some

        21       money to their friends or groups, but the fact

        22       is we don't need this bill.  Tell the federal

        23       government keep what you got, don't borrow any

        24       more from China, pay off our bills and let's



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         1       get straightened out here.

         2                  That's it.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         4       Thank you, Senator.

         5                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Read the last

         6       section.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         8       Are there any other Senators wishing to be

         9       heard on the bill?

        10                  Senator Aubertine, to close.

        11                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Thank you,

        12       Madam President.  And again, I will be brief.

        13       I know it's getting late.

        14                  But I just want to make the point

        15       that this bill won't take money away from

        16       consumers.  Quite the contrary.  It won't take

        17       money away from other projects.  Again, quite

        18       the contrary.  These are dollars that are

        19       raised through the carbon credit auctions and

        20       are used in the way that they were intended to

        21       be used, to conserve energy and to create

        22       jobs.

        23                  And in closing, I'd just like to

        24       read one letter from a company called Zero



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         1       Draft of Central New York.  It says:  "Dear

         2       Senator, Zero Draft of Central New York would

         3       like to thank you for supporting Green Jobs

         4       New York, S5888.  Hopefully this letter will

         5       serve to reinforce your decision and help you

         6       continue to support this legislation.

         7                  "This program will dramatically

         8       increase the demand for home performance

         9       contracting and boost the overall economy of

        10       New York in general.  Of particular importance

        11       to us, the program's training pipeline will

        12       create skilled workers to fill open job slots,

        13       creating over 14,000 permanent jobs statewide,

        14       and thereby help ease the task of finding and

        15       training our new employees.

        16                  "We have grown from just three

        17       employees five years ago to over 50 this year.

        18       We are already actively seeking more employees

        19       and anticipate the need to hire at least 20

        20       more prior to the year's end.  With a program

        21       like Green Jobs New York, Zero Draft will be

        22       able to continue to improve our local economy,

        23       enrich our residents and employees, save

        24       energy on our homes, and hire many more



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         1       building-science-professionals-to-be.

         2                  "Thank you very much."

         3                  And by the way, this letter is a

         4       copy of a letter dated September 9th, sent to

         5       Senator John A. DeFrancisco, 800 State Office

         6       Building, Syracuse, New York.

         7                  Thank you, Madam President.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         9       Thank you.

        10                  The debate is closed.  The

        11       Secretary will please ring the bells.

        12                  Read the last section.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        16       Call the roll.

        17                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        19       Senator Craig Johnson, to explain his vote.

        20                  SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:    Thank you

        21       very much, Madam President.

        22                  It's been a very interesting debate

        23       tonight, one with a lot of statements flying

        24       around, sometimes without backup facts that



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         1       came oftentimes from my colleagues on the

         2       other side of the aisle.

         3                  But what's clear to me is this will

         4       put money into the local economies which will

         5       help individuals right now who are looking for

         6       jobs.

         7                  There are provisions in this bill

         8       that will protect the money that's being

         9       spent.  We passed laws in 2007 called the

        10       False Claims Act which will continue to

        11       protect our money that will allow, if there's

        12       a problem, to go after the money and seek

        13       damages as well as criminal penalties.

        14                  We have pages upon pages of backup

        15       and pages upon pages of support from all sorts

        16       of organizations, all sorts of groups across

        17       the state, primarily upstate, saying how badly

        18       they want this.  All this should be weighed by

        19       each and every Senator.

        20                  But for me, for me, it's a simple

        21       statement, if I can just it read as follows.

        22       "The program is estimated to create

        23       approximately 14,250 permanent jobs, eliminate

        24       the up-front costs of retrofit construction to



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         1       homeowners, save families 30 to 40 percent on

         2       their yearly energy bills, and reduce harmful

         3       carbon emissions.

         4                  How?  The program relies on a

         5       simple fact -- science-based, whole-house

         6       energy-efficiency improvements save money.  A

         7       government regulated private investment fund

         8       will provide up-front construction costs for

         9       retrofits that pay themselves back over about

        10       eight years."

        11                  That paragraph came from a

        12       brilliantly written op-ed that was published

        13       today, and the author was our colleague

        14       Senator Tom Morahan.

        15                  I'll be voting in favor of this

        16       bill, and I urge my colleagues on both sides

        17       of the aisle to follow the example by Senator

        18       Morahan and support this legislation.

        19                  Thank you very much.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        21       Senator C. Johnson to be recorded in the

        22       affirmative.

        23                  Senator DeFrancisco.

        24                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes, that



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         1       was a very-well-written editorial, and I

         2       didn't hear community-based organizations

         3       mentioned once.  And that's my problem with

         4       this bill.

         5                  Of course the organization from

         6       Syracuse, New York, would be in favor of a

         7       program that's going to provide money to do

         8       weatherproofing.  That's their job.  What I'm

         9       saying, we should be eliminating the

        10       middle-people that aren't necessary.  If we

        11       can identify homes that are eligible, they

        12       should be notified.  And if they choose not to

        13       do it, it's not an unlimited fund.  Do those

        14       who want to do it, and then go look out for

        15       others through the county government.

        16                  And it's amazing to me, it's

        17       amazing to me, Senator Aubertine, how that

        18       organization could increase from three

        19       employees to 50 without this program.  I think

        20       they probably would be able to increase their

        21       employment by a lot more if we didn't siphon

        22       off part of the money for a needless portion

        23       of the bill which would be a great improvement

        24       if we just used existing resources to deliver



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         1       the money in a way that goes directly to those

         2       in need and provides more jobs of doing the

         3       work that has to be done on a home, not

         4       advocacy for the bill.

         5                  So I'm voting no for those reasons

         6       and those reasons alone.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         8       Senator DeFrancisco to be recorded in the

         9       negative.

        10                  Senator Hassell-Thompson.

        11                  SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:    Thank

        12       you, Madam President.  To explain my vote.

        13                  As I listened to the debate, it was

        14       interesting to hear people talk about

        15       middlemen.  Historically, since we always like

        16       to speak from historical perspectives here,

        17       these programs have always been run by

        18       community-based organizations.  In Rochester

        19       there's an agency called ABC.  And whenever

        20       there have been -- when there were federal

        21       dollars that came directly to communities,

        22       they came through community-based operations.

        23       The state does not know how to run these

        24       programs.



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         1                  When we begin to talk about how

         2       much money we're going to save, it is not

         3       cost-effective for the state to be operating

         4       programs of this type because they don't have

         5       the expertise to do that.

         6                  So I will be voting yes on the bill

         7       because it is more than a righteous bill.  But

         8       I think sometimes those of us who have never

         9       been involved in program development ought to

        10       look at the history of how those programs have

        11       evolved.

        12                  Thank you, Madam President.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        14       Senator Hassell-Thompson to be recorded in the

        15       affirmative.

        16                  Senator Thompson.

        17                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Thank you,

        18       Madam President.  I stand to explain my vote.

        19                  I definitely support this bill.  I

        20       think it's a very important bill.  Each month,

        21       I sponsor a Buffalo is Going Green business

        22       roundtable, about 75 to 80 businesses from

        23       throughout Western New York, not just in my

        24       district.  And this is good for a couple of



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         1       quick reasons.

         2                  Number one, when you talk about

         3       solar and you talk about wind and you talk

         4       about weatherization and the movement that's

         5       taking place in the United States of America,

         6       New York still has a difficult time getting

         7       workers both in cities, suburbs, and rural

         8       towns trained for those jobs that are taking

         9       over the country in terms of putting these on

        10       the residential facilities.

        11                  In addition to that, there are so

        12       many different small mom-and-pop businesses

        13       that are becoming more and more engaged in

        14       this area.  And we don't have the workforce

        15       ready for these jobs.  And if we don't take it

        16       seriously, people will come from all over the

        17       world trying to come to the United States for

        18       these jobs of the future.

        19                  This is something that New York

        20       must lead in.  This would get us on the right

        21       track.  It's not a panacea but it gets us on

        22       the right track for these good green-collar

        23       jobs.

        24                  And they train young people.  We



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         1       know a lot of our kids, 50 percent of our kids

         2       in the State of New York right now don't

         3       graduate from high school on time.  So Green

         4       Jobs is an opportunity for them, the same way

         5       it was for kids 10, 15, 20 years ago.

         6                  So this is a great opportunity, and

         7       I think that we should all celebrate the fact

         8       that we are leading on the green jobs track

         9       right now because of this today.

        10                  Thank you.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        12       Senator Thompson to be recorded in the

        13       affirmative.

        14                  Senator Little.

        15                  SENATOR LITTLE:    Thank you, Madam

        16       President.  Just to explain my vote.

        17                  I have always supported energy

        18       efficiency, and I will continue to do so.  I

        19       believe that the goals of this bill are very

        20       important, and I support those.  But in this

        21       economy, at a time when we're being called to

        22       reduce the size of government, to reduce

        23       spending in New York State, if we have

        24       $112 million sitting around, let's add to the



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         1       current weatherization programs in DHCR, let's

         2       add it to programs that exist in NYSERDA, and

         3       we will continue to get that result that

         4       you're all looking for, more energy

         5       efficiency -- and we're not creating more

         6       advisory committees, more training programs,

         7       more this, more that, more certification, more

         8       accountability.

         9                  So thank you.  I will vote against

        10       the bill, but I do support the concept.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        12       Senator Little to be recorded in the negative.

        13                  Senator L. Krueger.

        14                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        15       To explain my vote, Madam President.

        16                  Well, I guess I'd like to thank you

        17       for sponsoring this bill, Senator.  I am so

        18       delighted even at this late hour, 10:30, to

        19       just simply stand up and say this is a huge

        20       win-win for the people of New York, this is a

        21       huge win-win for energy efficiency and our

        22       long-term goals for greening our economy and

        23       greening our homes and businesses.

        24                  We are taking stimulus money and



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         1       applying it exactly how it should be used --

         2       to create jobs, to train a workforce, to

         3       modernize not only our homes and businesses

         4       but our labor force.

         5                  It is not going to cost the state

         6       money.  In fact, the analysis is that it's

         7       going to bring in $5 billion over five years

         8       of public/private partnership to improve the

         9       future of the State of New York.

        10                  I would love to be able to see

        11       other creative ideas like this become

        12       legislation and become law in the State of New

        13       York.  I think we would all be incredibly

        14       proud of the work we did here.

        15                  So thank you, Senator Aubertine.

        16       I'm delighted to be voting yes.  And I feel

        17       that we're going to pass this bill.

        18                  Thank you very much.  I'll be

        19       voting yes.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        21       Senator L. Krueger to be recorded in the

        22       affirmative.

        23                  Senator Stachowski.

        24                  SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Yes, I too



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         1       rise to explain my vote and explain why I'm

         2       voting for this bill.

         3                  I think, although many people

         4       mentioned that NYSERDA has programs that

         5       already we could put this money into, this

         6       program is directed at middle-income housing,

         7       which NYSERDA's programs oftentimes don't

         8       reach, and small businesses.  And making money

         9       available for small businesses to make their

        10       place of work more energy-efficient, nothing

        11       could be more helpful at this time.  If they

        12       can lower their energy costs at a time when

        13       it's high, this would be a great program to

        14       help them.

        15                  If this will create jobs for a lot

        16       of the unemployed, people losing their jobs

        17       from other private businesses, and they can

        18       then go to work for contractors that are in

        19       this field, this is a good thing.

        20                  This will put money back into the

        21       tax base, this will give jobs to people, this

        22       will help people lower their energy costs at

        23       their homes, possibly making the difference

        24       between them staying in their homes or leaving



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         1       them.  This will put people back to work.

         2       This will help small businesses, providing

         3       money for greening of their locations and

         4       lowering their costs.

         5                  I think this is a win-win for the

         6       state.  I think it will be carried out

         7       properly.  We have safeguards, as Senator

         8       Johnson mentioned, to make sure it is carried

         9       out properly.  Those already exist.

        10                  And I think this is a program that

        11       couldn't come at a better time.  It will give

        12       jobs to people.  It will help reduce our

        13       carbon footprint.  And I think it's a program

        14       that we should all be supporting.  I vote yes.

        15                  Thank you.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        17       Senator Stachowski to be recorded in the

        18       affirmative.

        19                  Senator Squadron, to explain his

        20       vote.

        21                  SENATOR SQUADRON:    Thank you very

        22       much.

        23                  Once upon a time, it was we had to

        24       choose between the environment and jobs or we



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         1       had to between the environment and low cost or

         2       we had to choose between the environment and

         3       the high cost of implementing things that

         4       would save the environment, initiatives that

         5       would save the environment.

         6                  This bill proves that's no longer

         7       true.  We're helping the environment, we're

         8       creating jobs, we're lowering costs for

         9       middle-class families.  And it doesn't cost

        10       anything because we're doing it on dollars

        11       that we get from a forward-thinking

        12       environmental plan.

        13                  Now there is no reason to vote

        14       against the environment.  There's a whole lot

        15       of reasons to vote for this bill, and that's

        16       why I'm proud to do so.

        17                  Thank you, Madam President.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        19       Senator Squadron to be recorded in the

        20       affirmative.

        21                  Senator Parker.

        22                  (Groans.)

        23                  SENATOR PARKER:    To explain my

        24       vote.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         2       Senator Parker, to explain his vote.

         3                  SENATOR PARKER:    Fourscore and

         4       seven years ago --

         5                  (Laughter.)

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         7       It has been to be in two minutes.

         8                  SENATOR PARKER:    Just really

         9       quickly.

        10                  One of which is I just wanted to

        11       clarify, because some of my colleagues in fact

        12       think that this money is just sitting in a pot

        13       that is just, you know, available for

        14       anything.

        15                  This pot, this money is actually

        16       legislatively bound to do the work around

        17       retrofitting, around reducing our carbon

        18       footprint, around making buildings more high

        19       efficiency.  So the money has to be used in

        20       very, very specific ways.  So we're bound by

        21       this program.  This Green Jobs-Green New York

        22       legislation is our next best opportunity to do

        23       the things that this pot of money is made for.

        24                  As relates to how things are



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         1       going -- and I know one of my colleagues is

         2       very concerned about that, and creating

         3       another bureaucracy, I don't think this

         4       legislation creates another bureaucracy.  It

         5       sounds logical that if you build a better

         6       mousetrap, you know, build it and they will

         7       come.  And unfortunately, that's not how it

         8       works.  That's not how weatherization works,

         9       that's not how going green works, that's not

        10       how conservation works.

        11                  We have to go out there and we have

        12       to really retrain the minds of our communities

        13       and of our people.  And thus we need to

        14       organize them.  Very similarly to what we did

        15       in the 1970s around the energy crisis then, we

        16       began in our schools, training the next

        17       generation.  Well, we began that work and then

        18       left it behind.  We can no longer ignore it.

        19                  We have to get out there and start

        20       working with homeowners and renters and

        21       everyone to in fact understand what this

        22       energy crisis is about, what reducing our

        23       carbon footprint is about.  And at the same

        24       time, those folks will lower -- those same



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         1       people will lower their energy bills and

         2       they'll have full-time jobs at a living wage

         3       with benefits.  And they will then pay taxes

         4       that will then go into making the state really

         5       the Empire State that we know and love.

         6                  I'm voting aye.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         8       Senator Parker will be recorded in the

         9       affirmative.

        10                  Are there any other Senators

        11       wishing to explain his or her vote?

        12                  MULTIPLE SENATORS:    No.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        14       Announce the results.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

        16       the negative on Calendar Number 872 are

        17       Senators DeFrancisco, Libous, Little, Skelos,

        18       Winner and Young.  Also Senator Nozzolio.

        19       Also Senator O. Johnson.

        20                  Ayes, 52.  Nays, 8.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        22       The bill is passed.

        23                  The Secretary will continue to

        24       read.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         2       877, by Member of the Assembly Cahill,

         3       Assembly Print Number 9031, an act to amend a

         4       chapter of the Laws of 2009 amending the

         5       Public Authorities Law.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

         7       Read the last section.

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

         9       act shall take effect on the same date and in

        10       the same manner as a chapter of the Laws of

        11       2009.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        13       Call the roll.

        14                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        16       Announce the results.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

        18       the negative on Calendar Number 877 are

        19       Senators DeFrancisco, O. Johnson, Libous,

        20       Little, Nozzolio, Skelos, Winner and Young.

        21                  Ayes, 52.  Nays, 8.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        23       The bill is passed.

        24                  Senator Klein, that completes the



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         1       controversial reading of the bills on the

         2       calendar.

         3                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Thank you, Madam

         4       President.

         5                  At this time there will be an

         6       immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in

         7       the Majority Conference Room.

         8                  Pending the return of the Rules

         9       Committee, may we please stand at ease.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

        11       There is an immediate meeting of the Rules

        12       Committee.

        13                  And while that is occurring, the

        14       house will stand at ease.

        15                  (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

        16       ease at 10:44 p.m.)

        17                  (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

        18       at 12:12 a.m.)

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        20       Senator Klein.

        21                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, I

        22       see the clock has struck midnight.  With

        23       unanimous consent, I move that we continue

        24       past midnight to continue our business this



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         1       evening.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         3       Pursuant to Rule 5, Section 2, with unanimous

         4       consent we are allowed to continue.

         5                  Senator Klein.

         6                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, if

         7       we can at this time return to the order of

         8       reports of standing committees, I believe

         9       there's a report of the Rules Committee at the

        10       desk.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    There

        12       is a report of the Rules Committee at the

        13       desk.

        14                  The Secretary will read.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Smith,

        16       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

        17       following bills:

        18                  Senate Print 185, by Senator

        19       Morahan, an act to amend the Mental Hygiene

        20       Law;

        21                  2443B, by Senator Stewart-Cousins,

        22       an act to amend the Election Law;

        23                  3292, by Senator LaValle, an act to

        24       amend the Education Law;



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         1                  Assembly Print 4277, by Member of

         2       the Assembly Cook, an act to amend the

         3       Economic Development Law;

         4                  Senate Print 5643, by Senator

         5       Dilan, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic

         6       Law;

         7                  5224, by Senator Schneiderman, an

         8       act to amend the Executive Law;

         9                  Assembly Print 8642, by Member of

        10       the Assembly Sweeney, an act to amend the

        11       Environmental Conservation Law;

        12                  Senate Print 5968, by Senator

        13       Sampson, an act to amend the Family Court Act;

        14                  27B, by Senator Fuschillo, an act

        15       to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law;

        16                  2190, by Senator Golden, an act to

        17       amend the County Law;

        18                  2493, by Senator Klein, an act to

        19       amend the Administrative Code of the City of

        20       New York;

        21                  2550A, by Senator Diaz, an act to

        22       amend the Tax Law;

        23                  3141A, by Senator Monserrate, an

        24       act to amend the General Business Law;



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         1                  3257A, by Senator Duane, an act to

         2       amend the Public Health Law;

         3                  4375, by Senator Griffo, an act to

         4       amend the Uniform Justice Court Act;

         5                  4962B, by Senator Oppenheimer, an

         6       act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law;

         7                  4982, by Senator Foley, an act to

         8       amend the Tax Law;

         9                  5050, by Senator Smith, an act to

        10       amend the Education Law;

        11                  5419, by Senator Stachowski, an act

        12       to amend the Economic Development Law;

        13                  5802A, by Senator Huntley, an act

        14       to amend the Public Health Law;

        15                  5908A, by Senator Nozzolio, an act

        16       authorizing the Commissioner of General

        17       Services;

        18                  5993, by Senator Hassell-Thompson,

        19       an act to amend the Correction Law;

        20                  6071, by Senator Saland, an act to

        21       amend the Penal Law;

        22                  6091, by Senator Diaz, an act to

        23       amend the Penal Law;

        24                  6108A, by Senator Leibell, an act



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         1       in relation to alienation;

         2                  6112, by Senator Parker, an act to

         3       amend the Penal Law;

         4                  6146, by Senator Klein, an act to

         5       amend the Social Services Law;

         6                  And Senate Print 6150, by Senator

         7       Espada, an act to amend the Public Authorities

         8       Law.

         9                  All bills ordered direct to third

        10       reading.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        12       Senator Klein.

        13                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, I

        14       move to accept the report of the Rules

        15       Committee.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    All

        17       those in favor of accepting the report of the

        18       Rules Committee please signify by saying aye.

        19                  (Response of "Aye.")

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        21       Opposed, nay.

        22                  (Response of "Nay.")

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        24       report of the Rules Committee is adopted.



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         1                  Senator Klein.

         2                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President,

         3       can we now please move to a reading of the

         4       supplemental calendar.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         6       Secretary will read.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         8       39, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 185, an

         9       act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        11       the last section.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

        13       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        15       the roll.

        16                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        18       Senator Morahan, to explain his vote.

        19                  SENATOR MORAHAN:    Thank you,

        20       Mr. President.

        21                  This is a very particularly

        22       well-timed bill that will deal with a very

        23       serious problem in our nation which is

        24       posttraumatic stress disorder.  What we're



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         1       doing with this bill is we're opening up

         2       Timothy's Law and including that ailment to

         3       those mental health diseases that will be

         4       covered by insurance for those folks who

         5       suffer from these dilemmas.

         6                  It's particularly well-timed

         7       because of 9/11, which is what we're in right

         8       now, and all the trauma that was leveled on

         9       people involved closely to that disaster, and

        10       also those who responded and to family members

        11       who suffered great losses.

        12                  It's also appropriate, by the time

        13       we get this to the Assembly and pass it, that

        14       Veterans Day will be upon us.  And we're

        15       talking about all of those servicepeople now

        16       coming back from Afghanistan and also from

        17       Iraq with posttraumatic stress disorder from

        18       what they've seen and felt and experienced in

        19       the service of their country.

        20                  So I'm delighted, thankful.  Thanks

        21       to Senator Huntley, who helped me pass this

        22       bill out of committee back in January.  And I

        23       appreciate that this bill is on the agenda

        24       tonight in very orderly process.



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         1                  And I urge all my colleagues, on

         2       behalf of the people who suffer from this type

         3       of disease, to vote for this bill.

         4                  Thank you very much.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         6       Announce the results.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.  Nays,

         8       0.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        10       bill is passed.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        12       Calendar Number 393, Senator Stewart-Cousins

        13       moves to discharge, from the Committee on

        14       Rules, Assembly Bill Number 1002C and

        15       substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

        16       Number 2443B, Third Reading Calendar 393.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        18       Substitution ordered.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        20       393, by Member of the Assembly Paulin,

        21       Assembly Print Number 1002C, an act to amend

        22       the Election Law.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        24       the last section.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         2       act shall take effect immediately.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

         4       the roll.

         5                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         8       bill is passed.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        10       425, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3292, an

        11       act to amend the Education Law.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        13       the last section.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 5.  This

        15       act shall take effect on the 120th day.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        17       the roll.

        18                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        20       Announce the results.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        23       bill is passed.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



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         1       480, by Member of the Assembly Cook, Assembly

         2       Print Number 4277, an act to amend the

         3       Economic Development Law.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

         5       the last section.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect on the 180th day.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

         9       the roll.

        10                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        12       Announcement.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        15       bill is passed.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        17       Calendar Number 602, Senator Dilan moves to

        18       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

        19       Assembly Bill Number 4552A and substitute it

        20       for the identical Senate Bill Number 5643,

        21       Third Reading Calendar 602.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        23       Substitution ordered.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



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         1       602, by Member of the Assembly Aubry, Assembly

         2       Print Number 4552A, an act to amend the

         3       Vehicle and Traffic Law.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

         5       the last section.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

         9       the roll.

        10                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        12       Announce the results.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        15       bill is passed.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        17       Calendar Number 641, Senator Schneiderman

        18       moves to discharge, from the Committee on

        19       Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7779 and

        20       substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

        21       Number 5224, Third Reading Calendar 641.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        23       Substitution ordered.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



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         1       641, by Member of the Assembly Rosenthal,

         2       Assembly Print Number 7779, an act to amend

         3       the Executive Law.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

         5       the last section.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

         9       the roll.

        10                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        12       Announce the results.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        15       bill is passed.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        17       899, by Member of the Assembly Sweeney,

        18       Assembly Print Number 8642, an act to amend

        19       the Environmental Conservation Law.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        21       the last section.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.

        24                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Lay it aside for



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         1       the day.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         3       bill is laid aside for the day.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         5       953, by Senator Sampson, Senate Print 5968, an

         6       act to amend the Family Court Act.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

         8       the last section.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

        10       act shall take effect January 1, 2010.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        12       the roll.

        13                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Saland,

        15       to explain his vote.

        16                  SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you,

        17       Mr. President.

        18                  Mr. President, I certainly

        19       recognize the need in certain of our

        20       communities for additional Family Court

        21       judges.  The caseloads are staggering in some

        22       instances.  But notwithstanding the efforts of

        23       Dutchess County, which has a population

        24       similar to and caseloads similar to some of



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         1       the counties that have had the good fortune to

         2       be selected by whatever process they had the

         3       good fortune to be selected, Dutchess was not

         4       included.

         5                  In the absence of Dutchess being

         6       included in this bill, suffering the very same

         7       problems that the counties -- and in some

         8       cases, worse, in terms of caseload -- that are

         9       getting the benefit of this bill, I can't

        10       support the bill and will be voting in the

        11       negative.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        13       Senator Saland will be recorded in the

        14       negative.

        15                  Senator Griffo, to explain his

        16       vote.

        17                  SENATOR GRIFFO:    Thank you,

        18       Mr. President.

        19                  I applaud the sponsor for his

        20       concern and initiative here.  My concern only

        21       is that at a time when we see a number of

        22       appointed officials in elective office that

        23       this will also lend to more appointments.  And

        24       I had that conversation with Senator Sampson.



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         1                  The concern here is that we will be

         2       allowing more appointments as opposed to

         3       encouraging elections.  And this could be

         4       resolved by pushing the bill back a year so

         5       that we could allow for the elections.

         6                  But I will support the bill.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         8       Senator Griffo will be recorded in the

         9       affirmative.

        10                  Senator Lanza, to explain his vote.

        11                  SENATOR LANZA:    Thank you,

        12       Mr. President.

        13                  Unfortunately, I'm going to vote no

        14       on this bill.  I share the concern raised by

        15       my colleague Senator Griffo.  Because of the

        16       timing of this legislation, outside of

        17       New York City the Family Court judges will not

        18       be elected, as they are supposed to be, but

        19       they will be appointed by the Governor.

        20                  I think, given the fact that it's

        21       late in the year, to push this off another

        22       couple of months would allow the people of the

        23       counties outside of New York City to have the

        24       opportunity to vote for the judges, which is



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         1       the way it should be.

         2                  Within New York City, it provides

         3       for seven new Family Court judges.  We

         4       certainly need them in New York City.  The

         5       concern I have, though, is that on Staten

         6       Island we need them perhaps more than any

         7       other borough.  But I'd be comfortable if in

         8       fact this would provide that a minimum of one

         9       judge be appointed to each borough within New

        10       York City, and then the other two we can work

        11       based on need.

        12                  And under this legislation there's

        13       no guarantee, for instance, that Staten Island

        14       would have a single new Family Court judge,

        15       which we desperately need.  So for those

        16       reasons, again, I agree with my colleagues, we

        17       certainly need to have more Family Court

        18       judges.  This calls for 21.  I'd support

        19       another 42, if you will.

        20                  But, you know, I think that it's

        21       important that we make sure that there's

        22       fairness and equity in where the judges sit.

        23       And certainly Staten Island, that I represent,

        24       is in dire need of having a new Family Court



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         1       judge.  So for that reason, I'm going to have

         2       to vote no.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         4       Senator Lanza will be recorded in the

         5       negative.

         6                  Announce the results.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

         8       the negative on Calendar Number 953 are

         9       Senators Flanagan, Lanza, Maziarz, Ranzenhofer

        10       and Saland.

        11                  Ayes, 54.  Nays, 5.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        13       bill is passed.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        15       961, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 27B,

        16       an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law

        17       and the State Finance Law.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        19       the last section.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

        21       act shall take effect April 1, 2010.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        23       the roll.

        24                  (The Secretary called the roll.)



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         2       Senator Fuschillo, to explain his vote.

         3                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you

         4       very much, Mr. President.  Just briefly.

         5                  I want to thank my colleagues for

         6       their support of this important piece of

         7       legislation.  Once the Assembly finally

         8       acts -- and I hope that the actions of this

         9       body in requiring mandatory ignition

        10       interlocking systems for first-time DWI

        11       offenders here in New York State would prompt

        12       the Assembly to do something -- we would

        13       become the 12th state in the nation to do it.

        14                  Every single day, every member of

        15       this body can pick up their local newspapers

        16       and read about another DWI arrest, crash, or a

        17       fatality.  It has to stop.  We witnessed

        18       recently the most tragic event on the Taconic

        19       Parkway.  And I must say, you'd think people

        20       would have learned a lesson.

        21                  But on -- it's now Friday, but on

        22       Thursday's Newsday it was reported that an

        23       off-duty cab driver was arrested Wednesday

        24       night at 10:39 p.m.  He was found driving the



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         1       wrong way on the Taconic Parkway in

         2       Westchester, about 10 miles north of where

         3       wrong-way driver Diane Schuler caused a crash

         4       killing herself and seven others.  This

         5       gentleman was arrested and was found to be

         6       driving with a blood alcohol level of .20.

         7                  I'm hopeful that once New York

         8       State has a mandatory ignition interlock

         9       system, along with other anti-DWI laws, that

        10       New York State will be the leader in stopping

        11       this epidemic of irresponsible and careless

        12       individuals that choose to drink and drive and

        13       kill innocent people every single day on our

        14       roadways.

        15                  Thank you very much for your

        16       support.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        18       Announce the results.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.  Nays,

        20       0.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        22       bill is passed.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        24       Calendar Number 962, Senator Golden moves to



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         1       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

         2       Assembly Bill Number 5643 and substitute it

         3       for the identical Senate Bill Number 2190,

         4       Third Reading Calendar 962.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         6       Substitution ordered.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         8       962, by Member of the Assembly Farrell,

         9       Assembly Print Number 5643, an act to amend

        10       the County Law.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        12       the last section.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        14       act shall take effect immediately.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        16       the roll.

        17                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        19       Announce the results.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        21       Calendar Number 962, those Senators recorded

        22       in the negative are Senators C. Johnson,

        23       Leibell, Monserrate and Saland.

        24                  Ayes, 55.  Nays, 4.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         2       bill is passed.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

         4       Calendar Number 963, Senator Klein moves to

         5       discharge, from the Committee on Housing,

         6       Construction and Community Development,

         7       Assembly Bill Number 2002 and substitute it

         8       for the identical Senate Bill Number 2493,

         9       Third Reading Calendar 963.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        11       Substitution ordered.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        13       963, by Member of the Assembly Silver,

        14       Assembly Print Number 2002, an act to amend

        15       the Administrative Code of the City of

        16       New York.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        18       the last section.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        22       the roll.

        23                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:



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         1       Announce the results.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.  Nays,

         3       2.  Senators Ranzenhofer and Saland recorded

         4       in the negative.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         6       bill is passed.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         8       964, by Senator Diaz, Senate Print 2550A, an

         9       act to amend the Tax Law.

        10                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Lay it aside.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        12       bill is laid aside.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        14       Calendar Number 965, Senator Monserrate moves

        15       to discharge, from the Committee on Codes,

        16       Assembly Bill Number 6633A and substitute it

        17       for the identical Senate Bill Number 3141A,

        18       Third Reading Calendar 965.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        20       Substitution ordered.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        22       965, by Member of the Assembly Pheffer,

        23       Assembly Print Number 6633A, an act to amend

        24       the General Business Law.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

         2       the last section.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

         4       act shall take effect on the same date and in

         5       the same manner as Chapter 553 of the Laws of

         6       2008.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

         8       the roll.

         9                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        11       Announce the results.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        14       bill is passed.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        16       Calendar Number 966, Senator Duane moves to

        17       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

        18       Assembly Bill Number 8397A and substitute it

        19       for the identical Senate Bill Number 3257A,

        20       Third Reading Calendar 966.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        22       Substitution ordered.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        24       966, by Member of the Assembly Gottfried,



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         1       Assembly Print Number 8397A, an act to amend

         2       the Public Health Law and the Social Services

         3       Law.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

         5       the last section.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

         9       the roll.

        10                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        12       Announce the results.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        15       bill is passed.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        17       968, by Senator Griffo, Senate Print 4375, an

        18       act to amend the Uniform Justice Court Act.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        20       the last section.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        24       the roll.



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         1                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         3       Announce the results.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

         5       1.  Senator Maziarz recorded in the negative.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         7       bill is passed.

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

         9       Calendar Number 969, Senator Oppenheimer moves

        10       to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

        11       Assembly Bill Number 999B and substitute it

        12       for the identical Senate Bill Number 4962B,

        13       Third Reading Calendar 969.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        15       Substitution ordered.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        17       969, by Member of the Assembly Paulin,

        18       Assembly Print Number 999B, an act to amend

        19       the Agriculture and Markets Law.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        21       the last section.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 7.  This

        23       act shall take effect on the 365th day.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call



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         1       the roll.

         2                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         5       bill is passed.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

         7       Calendar Number 970, Senator Foley moves to

         8       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

         9       Assembly Bill Number 2733A and substitute it

        10       for the identical Senate Bill Number 4982,

        11       Third Reading Calendar 970.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        13       Substitution ordered.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        15       970, by Member of the Assembly Sweeney,

        16       Assembly Print Number 2733A, an act to amend

        17       the Tax Law and the State Finance Law.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        19       the last section.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

        21       act shall take effect on the 180th day.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        23       the roll.

        24                  (The Secretary called the roll.)



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         2       Announce the results.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         5       bill is passed.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         7       972, by Senator Smith, Senate Print 5050, an

         8       act to amend the Education Law.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        10       the last section.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

        12       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        14       the roll.

        15                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        17       Announce the results.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        19       Calendar Number 972, those recorded in the

        20       negative are Senators Hassell-Thompson,

        21       Monserrate, Padavan and Perkins.

        22                  Ayes, 55.  Nays, 4.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        24       bill is passed.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

         2       Calendar Number 973, Senator Stachowski moves

         3       to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

         4       Assembly Bill Number 7229 and substitute it

         5       for the identical Senate Bill Number 5419,

         6       Third Reading Calendar 973.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         8       Substitution ordered.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        10       973, by Member of the Assembly Schimminger,

        11       Assembly Print Number 7229, an act to amend

        12       the Economic Development Law.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        14       the last section.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        18       the roll.

        19                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        21       Announce the results.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        24       bill is passed.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

         2       Calendar Number 974, Senator Huntley moves to

         3       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

         4       Assembly Bill Number 8461C and substitute it

         5       for the identical Senate Bill Number 5802A,

         6       Third Reading Calendar 974.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         8       Substitution ordered.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        10       974, by Member of the Assembly Lancman,

        11       Assembly Print Number 8461C, an act to amend

        12       the Public Health Law.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        14       the last section.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        18       the roll.

        19                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        21       Announce the results.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        24       bill is passed.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

         2       Calendar Number 975, Senator Nozzolio moves to

         3       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

         4       Assembly Bill Number 8971 and substitute it

         5       for the identical Senate Bill Number 5908A,

         6       Third Reading Calendar 975.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         8       Substitution ordered.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        10       975, by Member of the Assembly Lifton,

        11       Assembly Print Number 8971, an act authorizing

        12       the Commissioner of General Services.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        14       the last section.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect immediately.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        18       the roll.

        19                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        21       Announce the results.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        24       bill is passed.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

         2       Calendar Number 977, Senator Hassell-Thompson

         3       moves to discharge, from the Committee on

         4       Rules, Assembly Bill Number 4809A and

         5       substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

         6       Number 5993, Third Reading Calendar 977.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         8       Substitution ordered.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        10       977, by Member of the Assembly Weinstein,

        11       Assembly Print Number 4809A, an act to amend

        12       the Correction Law.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        14       the last section.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        16       act shall take effect on the 60th day.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        18       the roll.

        19                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        21       Announce the results.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        24       bill is passed.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

         2       Calendar Number 978, Senator Saland moves to

         3       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

         4       Assembly Bill Number 8781 and substitute it

         5       for the identical Senate Bill Number 6071,

         6       Third Reading Calendar 978.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         8       Substitution ordered.

         9                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        10       978, by member of the Assembly Paulin,

        11       Assembly Print Number 8781, an act to amend

        12       the Penal Law.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        14       the last section.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 7.  This

        16       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        18       the roll.

        19                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        21       Announce the results.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

        23       1.  Senator Montgomery recorded in the

        24       negative.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         2       bill is passed.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

         4       Calendar Number 979, Senator Diaz moves to

         5       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

         6       Assembly Bill Number 5080 and substitute it

         7       for the identical Senate Bill Number 6091,

         8       Third Reading Calendar 979.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        10       Substitution ordered.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        12       979, by Member of the Assembly Lentol,

        13       Assembly Print Number 5080, an act to amend

        14       the Penal Law.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        16       the last section.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        18       act shall take effect immediately.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        20       the roll.

        21                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        23       Senator DeFrancisco, to explain his vote.

        24                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I'm going



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         1       to vote in favor of the bill because it

         2       generally is a good idea.

         3                  The problem is with the language.

         4       It talks about with intent to cause the death

         5       of an individual, he causes the death and the

         6       defendant acted in an especially cruel and

         7       wanton manner.  I'm not sure that a court is

         8       going to be determining what an especially

         9       cruel really means, and I think it's going to

        10       end up with some reversals of convictions

        11       under this.  Especially when, if you go on, if

        12       you just say with intent to inflict and

        13       inflicting torture, because torture is defined

        14       as intention and depraved infliction of

        15       extreme physical pain.

        16                  So if we can remove, eventually,

        17       before this bill is signed, "especially

        18       cruel," I think this would be enforceable and

        19       not result in a reversal based upon the vague

        20       language.

        21                  I'll vote yes, hoping that that

        22       correction will be made.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        24       Senator DeFrancisco will be recorded in the



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         1       affirmative.

         2                  Senator Diaz, to explain his vote.

         3                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Thank you,

         4       Mr. Chairman.

         5                  I appreciate Senator DeFrancisco

         6       voting in favor of the bill.  This is a good

         7       bill.  I understand your concern.  This is in

         8       regard -- it's called the Nixzmary Brown Bill.

         9       This is a girl that was killed in Brooklyn,

        10       abused.  But I understand Senator

        11       DeFrancisco's concern.

        12                  But this is such a good bill that

        13       even Senator Schneiderman is voting in favor

        14       of it.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    So

        16       noted.

        17                  Announce the results.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 58.  Nays,

        19       1.  Senator Duane recorded in the negative.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        21       bill is passed.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        23       980, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 6108A,

        24       an act in relation to the alienation of



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         1       certain parklands.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    There

         3       is a home-rule message at the desk.

         4                  Read the last section.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 6.  This

         6       act shall take effect immediately.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

         8       the roll.

         9                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        11       Announce the results.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        14       bill is passed.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        16       Calendar Number 981, Senator Parker moves to

        17       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

        18       Assembly Bill Number --

        19                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Lay it aside.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        21       bill is laid aside.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        23       982, by Senator Klein, Senate Print 6146, an

        24       act to amend the Social Services Law and the



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         1       Elder Law.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

         3       the last section.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

         5       act shall take effect September 26, 2009.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

         7       the roll.

         8                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        10       Senator Liz Krueger, to explain her vote.

        11                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        12       Mr. Chair.

        13                  Just briefly, I'll be voting no on

        14       this bill, not necessarily because I am in

        15       opposition to what it is attempting to do but

        16       because of my concern that this is actually

        17       more of a budget bill and could have a

        18       significant impact on Medicaid costs for

        19       prescription drugs as a permanent and ongoing

        20       model.

        21                  And so I think that this bill

        22       should have gone through the process of being

        23       a Finance bill and being reviewed in the

        24       context of budgetary costs and healthcare



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         1       expenses.

         2                  So I'll be voting no.  Thank you.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         4       Senator Liz Krueger will be recorded in the

         5       negative.

         6                  Announce the results.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 57.  Nays,

         8       2.  Senators L. Krueger and O. Johnson

         9       recorded in the negative.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        11       bill is passed.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        13       983, by Senator Espada, Senate Print 6150, an

        14       act to amend the Public Authorities Law.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        16       the last section.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

        18       act shall take effect on the same date as a

        19       chapter of the laws of 2009.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        21       the roll.

        22                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        24       Announce the results.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         3       bill is passed.

         4                  Senator Klein, that completes the

         5       reading of the noncontroversial calendar.

         6                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, at

         7       this time can we take up the controversial

         8       calendar.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        10       Secretary will please ring the bells.

        11                  Members are asked to come for the

        12       chamber for the controversial reading of bills

        13       on the supplemental calendar.

        14                  The Secretary will read.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        16       964, by Senator Diaz, Senate Print 2550A, an

        17       act to amend the Tax Law.

        18                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Read the last

        19       section.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        21       Senator Diaz, to explain his vote.

        22                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Mr. Chairman and

        23       ladies and gentlemen, this is a bill that will

        24       help the State of New York.  We all know that



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         1       the State of New York is having a very

         2       difficult fiscal crisis.

         3                  This bill, Mr. Chairman and ladies

         4       and gentlemen, this is a bill that will

         5       produce from $500 million to $800 million for

         6       the State of New York.  This bill is simply

         7       asking that we, when we purchase with a credit

         8       card -- Mr. Chairman, when we purchase with a

         9       credit card, the credit card company takes the

        10       money and the taxes, the taxes that are owed

        11       to New York State, what the credit card

        12       companies do, they send the taxes back to the

        13       merchants.  The merchants are supposed to send

        14       the tax to the state.  That is state money.

        15       That is money owed to the state.

        16                  What happens, Mr. Chairman and

        17       ladies and gentlemen, is that some people

        18       don't send the taxes to the state.  The state

        19       is losing money.  So all of you in the other

        20       side, my good friends on the Republican side,

        21       this is a Democratic side telling you help the

        22       State of New York.  You come here, you brag

        23       about -- and you know what is going to happen

        24       to us, the ones that vote in favor of this



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         1       bill?

         2                  I will tell you what is going to

         3       happen to us, the ones that vote in favor of

         4       this bill.  We will force some people to let

         5       the sacred cow go and we will lose

         6       contributions from the lobbyists of the credit

         7       card companies.  Yeah, we will lose that

         8       money.  But the State of New York will gain

         9       $500 million.

        10                  We are not asking you to vote to

        11       spend money.  I'm not asking you to vote to

        12       spend money.  You brag so much about helping

        13       the state.  So here, here is an opportunity

        14       for you guys to help the state.  Between

        15       $500 million to $800 million have been lost

        16       because merchants, most of the merchants do

        17       not report exactly what they are supposed to

        18       send to the state.

        19                  So what we're asking is come on,

        20       let's send the money.  Instead of sending the

        21       taxes back to the merchants so the merchants

        22       could send it to the state, send the monies

        23       directly to the state.  Simple.  Simple.

        24                  Why don't you want to help the



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         1       State of New York?  Why don't you want to help

         2       the State of New York?  We know, we know that

         3       we need money.  In two months, maybe in a few

         4       weeks, the Governor is going to call us back

         5       here and the Governor is going to call us back

         6       to cut money, $2 billion.  And I'm going to

         7       see all of you, oh, that we got to protect --

         8       here is an opportunity to show that we really

         9       care.

        10                  Five hundred million dollars,

        11       $500 million -- you want to let go

        12       $500 million so some people are putting the

        13       money in their pocket?  Because you want to

        14       please who?  Come on, you know better than

        15       this.

        16                  This black guy, this Puerto Rican

        17       black guy with kinky hair and broken English,

        18       I'm telling you, I'm offering you the

        19       opportunity to get $500 million for the State

        20       of New York.  Right now.  Right now, at this

        21       moment, when we are facing a very difficult

        22       crisis, fiscal crisis in the State of

        23       New York.  Right now, right now, I'm telling

        24       here is opportunity.  Come on.



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         1                  And I am very glad that my leader,

         2       John Sampson, gave me the opportunity to put

         3       this in because for five years, for five years

         4       I have been trying to put this on the floor.

         5       And this time, at this time that we all are

         6       the Democratic majority, Sampson is bringing

         7       the bill to the floor.

         8                  So I'm asking all of you guys, come

         9       on -- Golden, come on.  Golden, Senator

        10       Golden, you supposed to be my friend.  And we

        11       friends are supposed to be for the State of

        12       New York, the City of New York.  Here's

        13       $500 million.

        14                  So Mr. Chairman and ladies and

        15       gentlemen, I'm offering the opportunity to my

        16       colleagues tonight, at a quarter to 1:00 in

        17       the morning, I'm offering the opportunity for

        18       them to vote on a simple bill.  Simple bill.

        19       Don't send the taxes that are owed to the

        20       State of New York back to the merchants.

        21       Forget about it.  Send the taxes straight to

        22       the coffers of the state.  The state will

        23       benefit, within $500 million to $800 million.

        24       That's what this bill is asking for.



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         1                  So who doesn't want to vote for

         2       something like this?  Who doesn't want to vote

         3       for something like this?  Five hundred million

         4       dollars to help the State of New York.  Come

         5       on, Republicans.  Come on, join us Democrats.

         6       Let's help the State of New York.  I challenge

         7       you to show that you really care about the

         8       State of New York.

         9                  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

        10                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Read the last

        11       section.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Are

        13       there any other Senators wishing to be heard

        14       on the bill?

        15                  Hearing none, debate is closed.

        16       The Secretary will please ring the bells.

        17                  Read the last section.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect on the first of October

        20       next succeeding.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        22       the roll.

        23                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:



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         1       Announce the results.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

         3       Calendar Number 964, those recorded in the

         4       negative are Senators Alesi, DeFrancisco,

         5       Farley, Flanagan, Fuschillo, Golden, Griffo,

         6       O. Johnson, Lanza, Larkin, Leibell, Libous,

         7       Little, Marcellino, Maziarz, McDonald,

         8       Morahan, Nozzolio, Padavan, Ranzenhofer,

         9       Robach, Saland, Seward, Skelos, Volker, Winner

        10       and Young.

        11                  Absent from voting:  Senators

        12       Hannon and LaValle.

        13                  Ayes, 28.  Nays, 27.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        15       bill fails.

        16                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Mr. President.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        18       Senator Diaz.

        19                  SENATOR DIAZ:    I move to

        20       reconsider the vote by which the bill was

        21       lost.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        23       Secretary will call the roll on

        24       reconsideration.



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         1                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 55.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         4       bill is restored to the Third Reading

         5       Calendar.

         6                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Mr. President.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Yes,

         8       Senator Diaz.

         9                  SENATOR DIAZ:    I wish to lay this

        10       bill on the table.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    So

        12       ordered.

        13                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Thank you.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        15       Secretary will continue to read.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        17       Calendar Number 981, Senator Parker moves to

        18       discharge, from the Committee on Rules,

        19       Assembly Bill Number 8924 and substitute it

        20       for the identical Senate Bill Number 6112,

        21       Third Reading Calendar 981.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        23       Substitution ordered.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



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         1       981, by Member of the Assembly Hoyt, Assembly

         2       Print Number 8924, an act to amend the Penal

         3       Law.

         4                  SENATOR GOLDEN:    Explanation.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         6       Explanation ordered, Senator Parker.

         7                  SENATOR PARKER:    Yes,

         8       Mr. President.  Explanation of the bill.

         9                  Senate Bill 6112 is the aggravated

        10       interference with the healthcare bill, and it

        11       establishes really New York as a leader in

        12       combatting violence and harassment against the

        13       reproductive healthcare community.

        14                  Ladies and gentlemen of the Senate,

        15       we should not see this as a bill about

        16       reproductive rights.  This is simply a

        17       criminal justice bill.  It is a civil

        18       protection bill for our communities and

        19       particularly protection for doctors, nurses,

        20       volunteers, and people seeking medical

        21       treatment.

        22                  Under this legislation, causing

        23       physical injury to someone who is obtaining,

        24       providing or assisting someone to obtain or



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         1       provide reproductive health services would

         2       create a new Class E felony.  Under existing

         3       law, it is only a misdemeanor.  And causing

         4       serious physical injury would be a new Class C

         5       felony, which is currently a Class D felony

         6       under existing law.

         7                  These enhanced penalties would

         8       apply to injuries caused to a reproductive

         9       healthcare provider, an employee, a volunteer,

        10       or a patient seeking such medical care.

        11                  SENATOR GOLDEN:    Mr. President.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        13       Senator Golden, on the bill.

        14                  SENATOR GOLDEN:    Yes.  For all

        15       the families that perished on 9/11, today

        16       being that memorial, many of us having to get

        17       back to our communities tomorrow morning and

        18       to go through some of these memorial services,

        19       on this bill, this is just another special

        20       class that we are setting up and raising the

        21       bar.

        22                  I mean, if we set up a political

        23       office, our politicians, if somebody wanted to

        24       come into our office, are we going to someday



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         1       create and increase the penalty if somebody

         2       were to fall or be injured with some type of

         3       intent and cause that individual that has

         4       physical injury to receive a felony?  I don't

         5       think so.

         6                  If we have a construction site with

         7       construction workers and we have community

         8       people outside of that facility trying to get

         9       more jobs at that location, are we going to --

        10       if someone is injured, one of those

        11       construction workers getting into that site,

        12       are we at some point going to raise the bar on

        13       those community people trying to get jobs at

        14       that site someday and say, you know what, hey,

        15       they committed an assault, they should be

        16       prosecuted with a felony?

        17                  I think it's wrong that we have

        18       these special classes.  We should not have

        19       this, and we should not be raising the bar for

        20       someone that's trying to get into a healthcare

        21       facility, trips, hurts themselves because

        22       they're trying to get past somebody, and there

        23       is somehow intent is placed in there and that

        24       individual receives just a physical injury and



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         1       now is prosecuted for a felony.  This is

         2       wrong.

         3                  And I vote no.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         5       Senator Parker, on the bill.

         6                  SENATOR PARKER:    Thank you,

         7       Mr. President, on the bill.

         8                  It's kind of appropriate that we

         9       went past midnight so that my bill could be

        10       discussed during the eighth anniversary of

        11       9/11, the most horrific terrorist attack on

        12       American soil and where we all, I know, are

        13       going to be spending some time at some

        14       memorial services and commemorating the day,

        15       some of us with service and some of us in

        16       prayer.

        17                  We should remember that this day

        18       and this memory about 9/11 wasn't about the

        19       attack on the 3,000 people in the World Trade

        20       Center that day, but really an attack on our

        21       way of life, on our values, on what we as

        22       American citizens hold dear.

        23                  What distinguishes the American

        24       democratic process and the American experiment



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         1       is people's right to express themselves and to

         2       live a life under a set of values that are

         3       uniquely their own -- as long as those values

         4       and those activities don't interfere with

         5       others.

         6                  What we were concerned with in the

         7       development of this bill was the fact that

         8       there are in fact people who are violating

         9       what we believe we should be doing as

        10       Americans.  That is, that in our day-to-day

        11       lives there are things that we don't agree

        12       with.  And we not only have the right to

        13       protest and to, you know, dissuade people from

        14       doing that, that it is almost really your

        15       American responsibility to be engaged in the

        16       political process of stopping those things and

        17       those activities.

        18                  In fact, just this afternoon for

        19       several hours we had a number of protesters in

        20       the hall right in front of the Majority

        21       Conference Room protesting around housing

        22       issues and, you know, demanding that we bring

        23       some bills around housing to the floor.  And

        24       although I think that, you know, it was loud



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         1       and to some degree it was disruptive to the

         2       workings of the Senate for a few hours, I

         3       don't think that not one of us really thought

         4       that we were going to be hurt by the people

         5       who were here to protest.

         6                  Doctors who have decided that they

         7       are going to give their lives in service to

         8       other people, helping other people, nurses,

         9       volunteers, who said we're going to help

        10       people as a profession and during our spare

        11       time, did so with the expectation that at

        12       minimum they would be protected by the

        13       American legal system and our criminal justice

        14       and law enforcement personnel.  That hasn't

        15       happened.

        16                  This bill unfortunately, Senator

        17       Golden, doesn't come out of the necessity to

        18       deal with injuries of people falling down or

        19       simply tripping coming into a health care

        20       facility.  With the recent murders of

        21       Dr. George Tiller in Kansas, a total of four

        22       doctors and eight people in all have been

        23       killed in reproductive health-related attacks

        24       in the United States, including Dr. Barnett



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         1       Slepian, of Buffalo, in 1998.

         2                  That's a lot of people to be

         3       killed.  And these were not accidents.  These

         4       weren't people who were walking under a

         5       scaffolding and something fell on them.  These

         6       were people who were murdered.  And

         7       Dr. Tiller's murder is not an isolated

         8       incident.  Let me read you some of the

         9       statistics.

        10                  Another doctor who died, John

        11       Britton, and a clinic escort were both killed

        12       in 1994, and Dr. Gunn was killed in 1993

        13       during a protest.  Robert Sanderson, a

        14       security guard at a clinic, was also killed in

        15       1998.  Two receptionists at a clinic were

        16       killed in 1994.  And the list of casualties

        17       goes on.

        18                  A total list of the incidents

        19       targeting practitioners at health clinics is

        20       more than four pages long, if I was going to

        21       read the whole thing.  And according to the

        22       National Abortion Federation, since 1977 in

        23       the United States and Canada, property crimes

        24       committed against abortion providers have



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         1       included 41 bombings, 173 arsons, 91 attempted

         2       bombings or arsons, 619 bomb threats, 1,630

         3       incidents of trespassing, 1,264 incidents of

         4       vandalism, and 100 attacks with what's called

         5       stink bombs, butyric acid.

         6                  In that same 32-year period, there

         7       have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death

         8       threats, 153 incidents of assault and battery,

         9       and three kidnappings committed against

        10       abortion providers.

        11                  This is not simple accidents.  This

        12       legislation is not simply about, you know,

        13       somebody tripping and falling.  We need to

        14       protect people and have a democracy that's

        15       rooted in nonviolent participation in this

        16       society.

        17                  I have a letter here from Lynn

        18       Slepian, who is the wife of Dr. Barnett

        19       Slepian.  It's dated September 8, 2009, and it

        20       says:

        21                  "Dear Members of the New York

        22       State:  Eleven years ago, my husband and

        23       father of our four sons, Bart Slepian, a

        24       doctor and reproductive healthcare provider in



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         1       Buffalo, was shot and killed in our home by an

         2       anti-abortion radical.

         3                  "After my husband's murder, I tried

         4       to envision the positive side of the tragedy,

         5       hoping that his death would be remembered as

         6       the end of this form of violence and

         7       devastation.  However, I realized that the

         8       issue is far from resolved when on Sunday,

         9       May 31, Dr. Tiller, an abortion provider in

        10       Wichita, Kansas, was murdered as he attended

        11       church service.

        12                  "In order to bring an end to

        13       tragedies such as my husband's and Dr.

        14       Tiller's murders, we as citizens of New York

        15       State need to take action.  When Assemblyman

        16       Hoyt came to me with his passion and vigor for

        17       the Protection of Reproductive Healthcare Act,

        18       I saw it as a perfect opportunity to seek just

        19       remedies for those who resort to violence.

        20                  "I can only hope that this

        21       legislation will help to deter more violent

        22       acts and threats from endangering the rights

        23       and safety of patients, staff and doctors.

        24                  "By heightening the legal penalties



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         1       for those who commit such destructive violent

         2       acts, I hope this bill will send a strong

         3       message that New York will not tolerate these

         4       acts of terrorism.  Violent offenders need to

         5       know that they will receive harsh penalties if

         6       they target the reproductive health clinic in

         7       New York State.

         8                  "Please support the Protection of

         9       Reproductive Healthcare Act.  Its passage is a

        10       step towards one of the goals that my husband

        11       strived for while he was alive, the assurance

        12       of safety and security for all reproductive

        13       healthcare facilities.

        14                  "Sincerely, Lynn Slepian."

        15                  Enough said.  I'm hoping my

        16       colleagues will join me in voting in the

        17       affirmative on this bill, Mr. President.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        19       you, Senator Parker.

        20                  Senator Liz Krueger, on the bill.

        21                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    I have to

        22       say I was fairly shocked by my colleague's

        23       analogy of slipping and falling issues to this

        24       bill, because this bill is about recognizing



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         1       that these activities are terrorist

         2       activities.

         3                  And as Senator Parker so eloquently

         4       spoke of in his comments, we are talking about

         5       crimes against healthcare providers -- people

         6       being threatened with death, people being

         7       killed for providing healthcare services,

         8       legally recognized healthcare services.

         9                  And this body, in the eight years

        10       almost that I have been here, has passed any

        11       number of bills increasing specific penalties

        12       for specific types of crimes for people in

        13       different professions.  I have seen us

        14       increase felony penalties for police officers,

        15       for correction officers, for transportation

        16       workers, for civil service employees in any

        17       number of different positions.

        18                  The concept that we wouldn't

        19       recognize the need to protect medical

        20       professionals from risking harm and death or

        21       their patients from risking harm and death

        22       from people who will choose to do violence to

        23       them -- again, as Senator Parker said, enough

        24       said.  Enough said.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         2       you, Senator Krueger.

         3                  Senator Volker, on the bill.

         4                  SENATOR VOLKER:    Mr. President, I

         5       just want to say I passed a bill to protect

         6       healthcare people at healthcare clinics.  And

         7       as far as I can see, this bill does nothing to

         8       really improve the bill that we passed I think

         9       six or seven years ago, which I think myself

        10       and Assemblywoman -- I can't even remember who

        11       it was.

        12                  As I told Sam Hoyt tonight on the

        13       floor of the Senate here, when I spoke to him,

        14       I said, "If you could just change a couple of

        15       sentences here and tighten this up a little

        16       bit so that an accidental injury or whatever

        17       couldn't be considered a felony, it would be a

        18       good bill."

        19                  But this bill does not cover the

        20       true meaning of what an attack or assault --

        21       and talking about murders, I mean you want to

        22       talk about a murder?  I'll tell you, pass the

        23       death penalty and that will help in abortion

        24       clinics, I'll tell you that.  Because I'm one



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         1       of those people who considers those attacks

         2       absolutely deplorable.

         3                  And I'll tell you, I don't really

         4       believe that the bill the way it's drafted

         5       does the job.  And I think a few changes in

         6       this bill could do it.  And as I said to

         7       Assemblyman Hoyt tonight, and I will say to

         8       you later, I just don't think this bill does

         9       the job.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        11       you, Senator Volker.

        12                  Are there any other Senators

        13       wishing to be heard on this bill?

        14                  Senator Parker, to close.

        15                  SENATOR PARKER:    Just a moment of

        16       clarification.

        17                  In the bill -- and I'll read it

        18       from the bill.  Physical injury is defined in

        19       law as the impairment of a person's physical

        20       condition or substantial pain.  Physical

        21       injury which creates a substantial risk of

        22       death or causes death or serious and

        23       protracted disfigurement, protracted

        24       impairment of health, or protracted loss or



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         1       impairment of any function of a bodily organ.

         2       That's the definition of physical injury.

         3                  This is not about slips and falls.

         4       This is not about accidents.  This is about

         5       terrorism, and this is about people who are

         6       actively going out and causing harm to

         7       doctors, to patients, to people who work in

         8       facilities, like receptionists and security

         9       guards.

        10                  I'm surprised, as much as I've

        11       heard my colleagues from upstate talk about

        12       the lack of doctors in upstate New York, that

        13       you would not do everything possible to

        14       provide a safe working environment for your

        15       constituents -- because these people live in

        16       your constituency -- and create a safe working

        17       environment for people who want to practice

        18       medicine in your particular jurisdictions.

        19                  And so I just want people to be

        20       clear.  If you're not going to vote for it,

        21       don't vote for it because, you know, you have

        22       a real problem, not because you misunderstand

        23       that this is about accidents, because this

        24       bill is not about accidents.



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         1                  Thank you, Mr. President.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Debate

         3       on the bill is closed.

         4                  The Secretary will ring the bells.

         5                  Read the last section.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

         7       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

         9       the roll.

        10                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        12       Senator Montgomery, to explain her vote.

        13                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes,

        14       Mr. President, I just want to explain I intend

        15       to vote yes on this bill, but I generally do

        16       not support bills that increase penalties and

        17       so forth and so on.

        18                  However, I think we know, we all

        19       know what this is.  This is a situation where

        20       people are using terrorism and violence to

        21       keep a woman, primarily, from accessing

        22       healthcare, especially reproductive health

        23       services.  That's what this is.

        24                  So to talk about falling down and



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         1       hurting your head, that's ridiculous.  This

         2       bill speaks to a very particular situation

         3       where people are interfering with a woman's

         4       right to reproductive health, and I vote yes.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         6       you, Senator Montgomery.

         7                  Senator DeFrancisco, to explain his

         8       vote.

         9                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Murder is a

        10       crime.  Arson is a crime.  Attempted arson is

        11       a crime.  All felonies.  Bomb threats are

        12       felonies.  Trespass may or may not be,

        13       depending on what happens.  I don't know about

        14       stink bombs.  But the fact of the matter is

        15       there are laws that already prevent or punish

        16       people for doing all of the things that was

        17       given as a justification for this bill.

        18                  Secondly, I have stood up on so

        19       many of those bills where you try to increase

        20       from assault third, which is causing pain and

        21       a serious physical injury, to assault second,

        22       just by the status of the person.  We talked

        23       about MTA, I think they've protected every

        24       person that goes into a train other than the



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         1       passenger, it's a felony.

         2                  And I think status of who the

         3       person is is wrong to determine what type of

         4       penalty there's going to be.

         5                  If this was a protest for anything

         6       other than abortion clinics, everybody on that

         7       side of the aisle would be saying, Why are you

         8       doing that, people have a right to express

         9       their points of view.  And the fact of the

        10       matter is that's true, whether you agree with

        11       them or not.

        12                  And the fact of the matter is if

        13       it's a crime, it should be the same type of

        14       crime whether it's a trespass, an assault

        15       third, an assault second.  No matter what the

        16       protest may be about or what the crime may be

        17       about, whoever the victim is should be

        18       irrelevant in our criminal justice system.

        19       That's the reason I vote no.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        21       Senator DeFrancisco to be recorded in the

        22       negative.

        23                  Announce the results.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in



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         1       the negative on Calendar Number 981 are

         2       Senators DeFrancisco, Diaz, Flanagan,

         3       Fuschillo, Golden, O. Johnson, Lanza, Larkin,

         4       Libous, Marcellino, Nozzolio, Skelos and

         5       Volker.  Also Senators Farley, Griffo, Young,

         6       Maziarz and Ranzenhofer.  Also Senator

         7       Morahan.

         8                  Absent from voting on Calendar

         9       Number 981:  Senators Hannon and LaValle.

        10                  Ayes, 36.  Nays, 19.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        12       bill is passed.

        13                  Senator Klein, that completes the

        14       reading of the controversial calendar.

        15                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, I

        16       move to recommit Calendar Numbers 899, 959 and

        17       960, laid aside earlier today, to the

        18       Committee on Rules.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    So

        20       ordered.

        21                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, is

        22       there any further business at the desk?

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    No,

        24       Senator, the desk is clear.



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         1                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Senator Klein,

         2       could I just ask a question?

         3                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Sure.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         5       Senator Libous.

         6                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    On the last roll

         7       call, was Senator Kruger called?

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         9       Senator Kruger was excused.

        10                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    You're welcome.

        12                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President,

        13       there being none, I move we adjourn this

        14       session at the call of the Temporary

        15       President, intervening days to be legislative

        16       days.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    There

        18       being no further business to come before the

        19       Senate, on motion, the Senate stands adjourned

        20       until the call of the Temporary President,

        21       intervening days being legislative days.

        22                  (Whereupon, at 1:17 a.m., the

        23       Senate adjourned.)

        24



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