Regular Session - January 20, 2010
162
1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
2
3
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
5
6
7
8
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 January 20, 2010
11 12:22 p.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
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16
17
18 SENATOR NEIL D. BRESLIN, Acting President
19 ANGELO J. APONTE, Secretary
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21
22
23
24
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The
3 Senate will please come to order.
4 I ask all present to please rise
5 and repeat the Pledge of Allegiance to the
6 Flag.
7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited
8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The
10 invocation today will be given by the Reverend
11 Peter G. Young, of the Mother Theresa
12 Community in Albany.
13 REVEREND YOUNG: Let us pray.
14 As we gather in the midst of the
15 budget concerns, may we pray for those who are
16 affected by today's continuing after-care
17 after the tremors in Haiti. All people are
18 called to respond to assist those in need.
19 God, You have given us many
20 different gifts that we have to respond with,
21 but it is always the spirit in this chamber
22 that You guide us. There are many different
23 ways to serve as Senators, but it is always
24 You, O God, that have granted them to be used
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1 for the good of our New York State citizens.
2 God has gifted each Senator with a
3 special potential to help constituents. Let
4 us take a moment to thank God for the talents
5 and the skills that we thank You for, for
6 these gifts of these Senators, unique to each
7 Senator.
8 And let us again pray and rejoice
9 in You who have given and made us dedicate our
10 gifts to those to the good of our New York
11 State citizens.
12 Amen.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
14 you, Father Young.
15 The reading of the Journal.
16 The Secretary will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
18 Tuesday, January 19, the Senate met pursuant
19 to adjournment. The Journal of Monday,
20 January 18, was read and approved. On motion,
21 Senate adjourned.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
23 Without objection, the Journal stands approved
24 as read.
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1 Presentation of petitions.
2 Messages from the Assembly.
3 Messages from the Governor.
4 Reports of standing committees.
5 Reports of select committees.
6 Communications and reports from
7 state officers.
8 Motions and resolutions.
9 Senator Smith.
10 SENATOR SMITH: Yes,
11 Mr. President. I believe there is a
12 resolution by Senator Sampson at the desk. I
13 ask that the resolution be read in its
14 entirety and move for its immediate adoption.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
16 Senator Smith, has this resolution been deemed
17 privileged and submitted to the office of the
18 Temporary President?
19 SENATOR SMITH: Yes,
20 Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The
22 Secretary will read.
23 THE SECRETARY: By Senators
24 Sampson, Skelos, Thompson, Hassell-Thompson
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1 and Adams, legislative resolution celebrating
2 the observance of the 25th National Martin
3 Luther King, Jr., Day.
4 "WHEREAS, This Legislative Body is
5 proudly moved to honor and pay tribute to the
6 life and works of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.;
7 and
8 "WHEREAS, Across this great state
9 and nation, many events were held on
10 January 18, 2010, to recognize the 25th
11 National Martin Luther King, Jr., Day. This
12 year's theme 'Saluting Greatness: The Legacy
13 of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.' serves as an
14 excellent rallying point to continue the
15 dialogue that transmits the message of the
16 virtues Dr. King and Mrs. King stood for, such
17 as selflessness, sacrifice, determination,
18 dignity and equality. Their lives were
19 committed to the service of others for the
20 greater good; and
21 "WHEREAS, People of all ages and
22 backgrounds came together to improve lives,
23 bridge social barriers, and move our nation
24 closer to the 'Beloved Community' that
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1 Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., envisioned. He
2 devoted his life's work to causes of equality
3 and social justice; and
4 "WHEREAS, Born the grandson of a
5 slave into a segregated society in Atlanta,
6 Georgia, on January 15, 1929, Dr. Martin
7 Luther King, Jr., was instrumental in
8 formulating the policy which ultimately led to
9 the American civil rights movement nationwide;
10 and
11 "WHEREAS, Dr. Martin Luther King,
12 Jr., wanted us to remember him as a person who
13 tried to live his life serving others, that he
14 tried to love somebody, and that he tried to
15 love and serve humanity; and
16 "WHEREAS, Dr. King taught that
17 through nonviolence and service to one
18 another, problems such as hunger and
19 homelessness, prejudice and discrimination can
20 be overcome. His teachings can continue to
21 guide us in addressing America's most pressing
22 needs of poverty, economic insecurity, job
23 loss and education; and
24 "WHEREAS, Dr. Martin Luther King,
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1 Jr., was a vital figure of the modern era.
2 His lectures and dialogues stirred the concern
3 and sparked the conscience of a generation;
4 and
5 "WHEREAS, The movements and marches
6 Dr. King led brought significant changes to
7 the fabric of American life through his
8 courage and selfless devotion. This devotion
9 gave direction to 13 years of civil rights
10 activities, and his charismatic leadership
11 inspired men and women, young and old,
12 throughout the United States and around the
13 world; and
14 "WHEREAS, Dr. King's concept of
15 'somebodiness,' which symbolized the
16 celebration of human worth and the conquest of
17 subjugation, gave African-Americans and the
18 poor hope and a sense of dignity. His
19 philosophy of nonviolent direct action and his
20 strategies for rational and non-destructive
21 social change galvanized the conscience of
22 America and reordered its priorities. His
23 wisdom, his words, his actions, his
24 commitment, and his dream for a new way of
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1 life are intertwined with the American
2 experience; and
3 "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this
4 Legislative Body that the common and shared
5 responsibility of governance demands an
6 irrevocable commitment to the preservation and
7 enhancement of human dignity as exemplified by
8 Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.; now, therefore,
9 be it
10 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative
11 Body pause in its deliberations to celebrate
12 the observance of the 25th National Martin
13 Luther King, Jr., Day."
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
15 Senator Hassell-Thompson.
16 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank
17 you, Mr. President.
18 I rise to thank this body for this
19 opportunity to commemorate the life of
20 Dr. King and to just say very quickly on the
21 record that as we deliberate in these
22 chambers, we do so with the idea of the dream
23 in mind. That it is our wish that we remember
24 that peace is not just the absence of
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1 violence, but that it is the presence of
2 justice.
3 Thank you, Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
5 you, Senator Hassell-Thompson.
6 Senator Parker.
7 SENATOR PARKER: Thank you,
8 Mr. President. On the resolution.
9 MLK Day is always an important time
10 for me, as it is, I think, for many
11 African-Americans around the country. I know
12 myself I would not have an opportunity to
13 represent the 21st District in Brooklyn if it
14 was not for the work of Dr. King, members of
15 the Southern Christian Leadership Conference,
16 SNCC, members of the Black Power movement, and
17 others who gave their life, their time, shed
18 blood and tears to make sure that
19 African-Americans had a place in terms of the
20 line of opportunity here in America.
21 And we get caught up in the dream,
22 and I think people like that. People like the
23 idea of something that was part of sleep but
24 not really part of reality. And really, when
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1 you talk about what Dr. King was really about
2 and the message he delivered, and particularly
3 in D.C., that it really wasn't much about the
4 dream. In fact, the idea of the dream was an
5 ad lib.
6 What he did come to talk about was
7 the idea of cashing in a check of justice that
8 at that point was marked "unfulfilled." I
9 would say now that we've made some deposits on
10 it, but it's still not completely fulfilled.
11 It is, in my view, the mission of
12 the members of this body and in this chamber
13 on both sides of the aisle to make sure that
14 that check is marked "sufficient." And not
15 just sufficient for African-Americans, but
16 sufficient for all Americans, all New Yorkers,
17 all people of goodwill in this state.
18 And so lastly I just wanted to
19 point to the second thing he talked about, and
20 that was the importance of the now. That it
21 wasn't just important just to say that we have
22 to someday get this check fulfilled
23 sufficient, but we have to do it now.
24 And let me just say, colleagues,
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1 that now is the time for us to do the right
2 things by the people of the State of New York.
3 Now is the time for us to come together and
4 make sure that we continue to fully fund
5 education. Now is the time to make sure that
6 we in fact have a jobs program for people in
7 the state. Now is the time to make sure that
8 people's property taxes are in fact in line
9 with their incomes and people are not being
10 overburdened. Now is the time that we make
11 sure that healthcare is really available for
12 all people. Now is the time that adequate
13 housing needs to be fulfilled.
14 And we have bills in this body that
15 would do those things. And I would say that
16 we should not wait until the budget and wait
17 until this or the other thing happens or wait
18 until the elections come and wait for that --
19 we have to do what King asked us to do, which
20 is to act in the now.
21 And so it's important, if we're
22 going to remember the life and legacy of
23 Dr. King, not simply to remember the dream,
24 but to make sure, Mr. President, that we are
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1 in fact acting in the now and honoring his
2 legacy with action.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
4 you, Senator Parker.
5 Senator Larkin.
6 SENATOR LARKIN: Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 You know, in one respect it's a
9 shame we didn't do this on the holiday or we
10 didn't do it on the 15th day of January, which
11 was his birthday.
12 I don't know how many people in
13 this room ever met Dr. King face to face, ever
14 shook hands with him. But if you did, you'd
15 now that when Dr. King talked to you -- and I
16 know it, because I met him, short visit,
17 10 minutes, Selma, Alabama, 21 March, 1965 --
18 Dr. King looked right at you. He didn't look
19 to see who was watching him, he looked right
20 at you and said how important the mission was.
21 And I think all of us -- I just
22 heard what Senator Parker said, and I think we
23 all ought to remember in August of 1963 in
24 Washington, D.C., when Dr. King said he had a
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1 dream. And I think a lot of people today,
2 young and old, have forgot the contents of
3 that message. The message wasn't to go out
4 and spread anger or violence. The message was
5 try to come together and do something
6 positive -- not for African-Americans, but for
7 all Americans, for young and old. Dr. King
8 had a perfect message.
9 When he was killed in April of 1968
10 in Memphis, Tennessee, he was there to help
11 the sanitation workers. And I see a lot of
12 people say they did this, they did this. You
13 know what? Go back and read the speech of
14 August of '63. And read what he said to the
15 sanitation workers in April of '68 before he
16 was killed. There was a message there that
17 many of us today don't understand and are not
18 willing to accept what was proposed. The
19 proposals were not accepted on a lot of sides.
20 But had it not been for Dr. King's
21 march from Selma to Montgomery, I don't know
22 how many years it would have taken us to do
23 the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Civil Rights
24 Act which was enhanced by then-Senator Nolan
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1 from California because President Johnson did
2 not have the votes.
3 But Dr. King looked at you very
4 emphatic, said to you what he did. And my
5 short 10 minutes with him, I'll remember he
6 said "God bless you and let's pray for a
7 successful mission." We had a successful
8 mission on the march from Selma to Montgomery.
9 And we also should note that there
10 was a very distinguished individual in that
11 front row marching. The Governor's father,
12 Basil, was one of the marchers.
13 Thank you.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
15 you, Senator Larkin.
16 Senator Adams.
17 SENATOR ADAMS: Thank you,
18 Mr. President.
19 One of the challenging things of
20 sitting on this side of the room is that
21 Senator Parker often takes my speeches.
22 I always like to go back and look
23 at what people were saying while the person
24 was alive. It's easy to retrospectively talk
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1 about the greatness of someone. But what was
2 going on the month and the year before we lost
3 Dr. King?
4 You know, we need to talk about the
5 fact that when he was in Harlem, a group of
6 Harlem parishioners at a church threw eggs at
7 him when he walked out. We need to talk about
8 the various newspapers and editorial pages
9 that criticized him and stated that he was
10 trying to move the country too fast. We need
11 to talk about how he was disdained and
12 disliked.
13 We need to talk about the FBI
14 building that bears the name of one of the
15 most draconian government officials that we
16 could ever imagine, J. Edgar Hoover, and how
17 he followed Dr. King and how he sent tapes to
18 Dr. King's family, and how he attempted to
19 push Dr. King into committing suicide.
20 We need to talk about from location
21 to location that Dr. King was hated. He was
22 hated by governmental officials when he talked
23 about the Vietnam War. He was hated in the
24 local papers in the South. He was hated in
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1 the North.
2 So it's nice now to reflect and
3 talk about the greatness of his dream, but the
4 reality, Dr. King lived a nightmare. He was
5 afraid. His family was under a constant
6 threat. Those of us who cherish him now may
7 have participated in branding him as being
8 someone that was tearing the country apart.
9 Our late president had a significant role in
10 stopping many of the roadblocks that he wanted
11 to do.
12 So we can reflect, but we must be
13 clear not to be revisionist. If we give a
14 correct reflection of history and what
15 Dr. King went through in his life, clearly
16 we'll know that those of us who write about us
17 now who don't have the foresight to understand
18 that marriage equality is right, who don't
19 have the foresight to understand that giving
20 all of our children an equal educational
21 opportunity is right, who don't understand
22 that we need to reignite affordable housing in
23 this state -- and we are right -- who don't
24 understand that we need to address the issue
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1 that a countless number of New Yorkers across
2 the state are going through a daily ritual of
3 sitting down at their kitchen table with their
4 head in their hand, wondering how they're
5 going to move forward -- and we're fighting
6 for them; we are right.
7 So no matter what is wrote in the
8 papers, no matter how we are demonized,
9 there's something uniquely qualified about
10 what we are doing. We are King-like. We are
11 living the dream of King, not in what we say
12 but in our actions.
13 And I too want to just pause for a
14 moment. And if Dr. King was here, I believe
15 he would say "Stop looking at me as the star."
16 There were a countless number of costars who
17 participated in what he did. It was not that
18 our concern is just the man, Dr. King; it's
19 the spirit of Dr. King. That is what took
20 place.
21 And there were many people who
22 participated in the evolution of this country
23 who already went through, as he stated, the
24 morning of childhood, already went through the
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1 afternoon of adulthood, and they were in the
2 evening of their lives, they marched, they
3 were jailed, they were incarcerated -- but
4 they believed in Dr. King, just as the people
5 in this state believe in the things that we're
6 doing. So we need to relive the dream and
7 prevent the nightmares throughout our entire
8 state.
9 So I applaud the life of Dr. King.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
11 you, Senator Adams.
12 Senator Perkins.
13 SENATOR PERKINS: Thank you,
14 Mr. President. I'm going to be brief.
15 I guess more difficult than
16 following Kevin Parker, who plagiarizes
17 speeches, is following Senator Adams, because
18 he's always so eloquent.
19 But I just wanted to take a brief
20 moment to remember Dr. King as he was in his
21 last episode, not simply working with labor in
22 Memphis, Tennessee -- and in fact I had the
23 privilege on his birthday, the 15th, of having
24 a celebration of his relationship with labor
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1 with labor leaders from throughout the city
2 and state.
3 But he was at that point involved
4 in an economic justice campaign which was not
5 only emphasized by his labor relationships but
6 also by his campaign for poor people. He was
7 organizing a march to Washington, D.C., called
8 the Poor People's Campaign, in which he was
9 organizing people from the Appalachian
10 Mountains and from the urban communities to go
11 down to Washington, D.C., and stay there until
12 an economic justice agenda was provided.
13 It reminds me to some extent of
14 what Senator Parker was alluding to when he
15 reminded us of the type of legislation that we
16 already have on the books to be voted on and
17 that would to some extent address his dream,
18 especially from the economic justice point of
19 view.
20 So I just wanted to remind us that
21 yes, he was the great civil rights leader and
22 yes, he was a great religious leader, a moral
23 leader, but he understood that the next
24 movement was the movement for economic
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1 justice, especially for poor people. And so I
2 wanted to, for the record, make that point.
3 Thank you.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
5 you, Senator Perkins.
6 Are there any other Senators
7 wishing to be heard on the resolution?
8 The question, then, is on the
9 resolution. All those in favor please signify
10 by saying aye.
11 (Response of "Aye.")
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
13 Opposed, nay.
14 (No response.)
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The
16 resolution is adopted.
17 Senators Sampson and Skelos have
18 indicated they would like to open up this
19 resolution for joint sponsorship. Anyone not
20 wishing to be on it please notify the desk.
21 Senator Smith.
22 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you very
23 much, Mr. President.
24 I believe there is a resolution at
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1 the desk by Senator Kevin Parker. I ask that
2 that resolution be read in its entirety and,
3 at the behest of Senator Parker, move for its
4 immediate adoption.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
6 Senator Smith, has this resolution been deemed
7 privileged and submitted to the office of the
8 Temporary President?
9 SENATOR SMITH: Yes, it has,
10 Mr. President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The
12 Secretary will then read.
13 THE SECRETARY: By Senators
14 Parker, Sampson, Adams and Foley, legislative
15 resolution sending deepest condolences to the
16 people of Haiti in wake of the catastrophic
17 earthquake that hit the island on Tuesday,
18 January 12, 2010, and expressing solidarity
19 with all individuals and organizations
20 involved in the ongoing rescue and recovery
21 efforts.
22 "WHEREAS, The human toll resulting
23 from the devastating tragic events of the 7.0
24 earthquake that shook Haiti and its aftermath
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1 will alter the course of the lives of
2 countless families and require the efforts and
3 support of New Yorkers, Americans, and
4 compassionate individuals throughout all
5 nations to ensure the restoration of stability
6 to all of the regions affected by the horrific
7 natural disaster; and
8 "WHEREAS, This Legislative Body is
9 sincerely moved to send the deepest heartfelt
10 condolences from the people of the State of
11 New York to the people of Haiti in wake of the
12 catastrophic earthquake that hit the island on
13 Tuesday, January 12, 2010, and to express
14 solidarity with all individuals and
15 organizations involved in the ongoing rescue
16 and recovery efforts; and
17 "WHEREAS, This devastating
18 earthquake, which gave virtually no warning,
19 has left thousands dead, nearly 3 million
20 homeless, countless orphaned, and untold
21 thousands still missing; and
22 "WHEREAS, The most powerful
23 earthquake Haiti has witnessed in over 200
24 years has damaged and destroyed government
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1 headquarters, schools, medical buildings,
2 roads and bridges, requiring a widespread need
3 for food, water, supplies, tools, equipment,
4 medicine, healthcare, law enforcement
5 personnel, security services, public utility
6 services, sanitation and waste disposal,
7 removal of debris, and property restoration
8 and reconstruction; and
9 "WHEREAS, The giving nature of
10 New Yorkers and all Americans is already
11 apparent by the outpouring of sympathy and
12 contributions made on behalf of countless
13 individuals and organizations who have aided
14 in the rescue and relief efforts; and
15 "WHEREAS, There are more than
16 230,000 people of Haitian origin living in
17 New York State, including approximately
18 122,000 in New York City alone, as well as a
19 growing and dynamic Haitian-American community
20 on Long Island. The Haitian presence,
21 particularly in Brooklyn, has positively
22 impacted many neighborhoods and has led to the
23 creation of several vibrant Haitian-American
24 community institutions and organizations; and
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1 "WHEREAS, This Legislative Body
2 represents a community that possesses the
3 natural inclination to come to the aid of
4 those in need, especially in times of
5 tragedies as great as this that have occurred
6 on our own soil as well as abroad; and
7 "WHEREAS, This Legislative Body
8 recognizes the magnitude of this ongoing
9 national tragedy, and with these words sends
10 the message to the people of Haiti that the
11 citizens of the great Empire State relate to
12 the suffering that others endure in times of
13 such devastation and recovery, and will remain
14 steadfast in support and compassion with them
15 for as long as it takes to reunite their
16 families, restore hope to their lives, and
17 secure their future; now, therefore, be it
18 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative
19 Body pause in its deliberations to send
20 deepest condolences to the people of Haiti in
21 wake of the catastrophic earthquake that hit
22 the island on Tuesday, January 12, 2010, and
23 expressing solidarity with all individuals and
24 organizations involved in the ongoing rescue
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1 and recovery efforts."
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
3 Senator Parker.
4 SENATOR PARKER: Thank you,
5 Mr. President. On the resolution.
6 Approximately a week ago there was
7 a catastrophic earthquake in Haiti, as we all
8 know, that devastated the country. I happen
9 to represent, in Flatbush and East Flatbush,
10 the largest concentration of Haitians outside
11 of Haiti in the entire world. I share a large
12 Haitian population with many of my colleagues,
13 including Senator Adams, Senator Sampson,
14 Senator Hassell-Thompson, Senator Foley. I
15 know Senator Tom Morahan has a large
16 population in Spring Valley. There's a
17 significant population out in Rosedale, in
18 Queens.
19 And so, you know, when we look at
20 how important this population has been for the
21 growth of New York State and Brooklyn in
22 particular, we're in unity in terms of the
23 stress that we're feeling.
24 Never before have I, particularly
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1 as an elected official, have gone through
2 something that has touched me so personally.
3 That this is in fact not something that is
4 just abstract on TV, but, you know, members of
5 my staff who are from Haiti are missing, have
6 lost family members and loved ones. You know,
7 people I've grown up with, you know, some of
8 their children who are over there, you know,
9 some were missing, some have been found. This
10 is profoundly horrific for the people of my
11 district and of course for the people who live
12 in Haiti now.
13 And so I just wanted to at this
14 moment not just to raise the issue so that we
15 all continue to think about it, but really use
16 this moment as a call to action to ask members
17 of this body on both sides of the aisle to
18 really seriously be engaged in this.
19 We frankly owe a debt to Haiti
20 because in part the earthquake that hit Haiti
21 was on top of all of the other problems that
22 Haiti had been having already with the deep
23 poverty, lack of healthcare, you know, not
24 strong architectural structures that we're now
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1 finding. And that's a condition that we as
2 Americans helped to create.
3 And I know a lot of people don't
4 necessarily want to face up to that. But the
5 reality is that there were many European
6 powers that, when Haiti got to be the first
7 republic to be free in the Western Hemisphere,
8 did not see that as a good thing and in fact
9 pledged themselves to make sure that Haiti
10 would be made an example of. And so not only
11 political and economic and social exploitation
12 has been part of the process that they've gone
13 through, but it has been really a collusion
14 and a conspiracy of silence around Haiti up
15 until this point.
16 We now have an opportunity in this
17 call to action to do more. And I know that
18 people have been making monetary
19 contributions, and I want to thank people for
20 doing that. And I think there's more to be
21 done. But we really need to both call on the
22 federal government to do a few more things as
23 well as some of our corporate partners.
24 And I certainly want to give a lot
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1 of credit to President Barack Obama and the
2 members of Congress, particularly from the
3 New York delegation, and most notably my
4 Congresswoman, Yvette Clarke, around calling
5 for things like the temporary protective
6 status for Haitian immigrants. The President,
7 without even prompting, stopped the
8 deportation of Haitian immigrants. There's
9 literally no more capacity for the country to
10 absorb people going back to the country, and
11 so we have to take it upon ourselves to do
12 that.
13 I've reached out to the Governor of
14 this state to make an armory available and to
15 have the New York Air National Guard be
16 available to take down supplies when the time
17 is right. And I've yet to hear from him. I'm
18 hoping that the Governor will hear my plea
19 today and make that happen for New Yorkers who
20 are looking for help from their government to
21 help their home country. And it's a small
22 price to pay.
23 And I know that we're in the middle
24 of an economic crisis in the state, but the
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1 people of Haiti are in the middle of a human
2 crisis, and that human crisis is right now.
3 And we can figure out a way to balance the
4 budget, and we always do. But how is Haiti
5 going to get out of this situation if we don't
6 help? The question is not what happens to our
7 budget if we help Haiti, the question is what
8 happens to Haiti if we don't help them. And
9 what happens to us as a consequence of that
10 nonaction? And so this is a call of action to
11 get them involved.
12 You know, I've worked on energy and
13 telecommunications issues, I've reached out to
14 Con Ed, I'm shortly going to reach out to
15 National Grid to send down electrical
16 engineers and technicians and equipment to
17 help Haiti get back online.
18 We've reached out to credit card
19 companies to make sure that they are not
20 charging fees to people who are making
21 contributions on their credit cards, and to
22 make sure that any fees that have been charged
23 to this point get sent to Haiti as a donation,
24 to make sure that our donations are being used
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1 correctly.
2 I have to commend, on this same
3 issue, Congressman Charles Rangel, who in fact
4 has made it possible so that the contributions
5 that we're making now on behalf of Haiti can
6 in fact be deducted from the 2009 taxes.
7 We need to do all these small
8 things. I've reached out to the airlines and
9 asked them to provide low-cost flights and
10 free flights, for people who are trapped in
11 Haiti to fly back and people who need to get
12 down to check on loved ones and families as
13 well as to send down rescue workers.
14 We're going to need to reach out to
15 the world community, and particularly the
16 world financial community, like the IMF, the
17 International Monetary Fund, and the World
18 Bank. And I'm asking them to forgive Haiti's
19 loans. We can't continue to send in aid and
20 do the things that we're going to be doing
21 and, you know, Haiti has these debts in a
22 context in which we know they're going to
23 never be able to pay back. Let's forgive
24 them. Let's forgive those loans and let's
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1 move towards building Haiti.
2 In that vein, again I congratulate
3 President Barack Obama and the members of
4 Congress for pledging $100 million towards
5 their rebuilding effort. That's not nearly
6 enough. I have actually written a letter to
7 the President and to the members of Congress
8 asking for a billion-dollar rebuilding program
9 to be implemented by Congress. That will just
10 be a beginning of what we need to do to turn
11 Haiti around to make sure that it can be a
12 sustainable country again with its own
13 government.
14 And so, you know, how can we in
15 fact talk about sending them and working with
16 them around a billion dollars if they in fact
17 have these astronomical loans that they have
18 to pay back? So, you know, these things kind
19 of work hand in glove.
20 There's so much more that we can do
21 both as a state and as a national government.
22 And so, again, my call to action today is to
23 ask my colleagues here on the floor to be
24 involved in this process, to reach out to me
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1 and to other members who are interested in
2 helping to rebuild Haiti and making sure that
3 our constituents here of Haitian descent, make
4 sure that they're secure and that their loved
5 ones are okay.
6 And so as we deal with this crisis,
7 we use it as an opportunity, both to express
8 our humanity and to work alongside of our
9 constituencies and their families and loved
10 ones back home, but also to right past
11 injustices that were done to Haiti and go
12 forward with a renewed spirit of cooperation
13 and partnership to make sure that this world
14 is the kind of world that we all want to live
15 in. And that is one where there isn't any
16 kind of economic and political oppression and
17 where we aren't creating economic blockades
18 around countries and we aren't, you know,
19 ignoring the cries of one of the poorest
20 countries in the Western Hemisphere.
21 And so I look forward to our
22 continued work together, because Haiti has hit
23 rock bottom. And for all of us, there is no
24 place to go but up.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
2 you, Senator Parker.
3 Senator Foley.
4 SENATOR FOLEY: Thank you,
5 Mr. President.
6 I'd like to take this opportunity
7 to express our solidarity with the people of
8 Haiti and with our great Haitian-American
9 community during this tragic time. We've
10 learned over the past week this is the worst
11 earthquake to hit Haiti in over 200 years,
12 leaving millions homeless and tens of
13 thousands who have died.
14 Shortly after the earthquake, which
15 was 7.0 on the Richter scale, people across
16 the great State of New York began efforts to
17 help those in desperate need. From
18 fund-raising drives to calls to gather crucial
19 supplies, New Yorkers began to pitch in at a
20 very speedy pace.
21 In my own district on Long Island,
22 we've seen unprecedented efforts to help
23 victims of the Haitian earthquake. And while
24 we're grateful to those who have rolled up
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1 their sleeves and donated their time, money
2 and energy to the cause, I wanted to take a
3 moment to particularly thank the
4 Haitian-American community on Long Island.
5 And in my own district, which is
6 one of the more diverse districts in our
7 state, we have seen a vibrant Haitian-American
8 community coming together. And I want to
9 especially thank a not-for-profit
10 organization, Haitian-Americans United for
11 Change, which has been working tirelessly to
12 help victims of the earthquake.
13 So the Haitian-Americans United for
14 Change and all others who are volunteering and
15 making whatever contributions possible are
16 some of the real heroes who deserve our
17 eternal gratitude.
18 So as we proceed today,
19 Mr. President, with our business in the
20 Senate, rest assured that New York stands with
21 the Haitian-American community and with our
22 friends who are suffering today in Haiti.
23 Thank you, Mr. President.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
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1 you, Senator Foley.
2 Senator Hassell-Thompson.
3 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank
4 you, Mr. President.
5 I rise to add my condolence to that
6 of the members in this chamber for the
7 catastrophe that has happened in Haiti and, as
8 we have heard, continues with this latest
9 earthquake that has rocked that island.
10 Let me say first that New Yorkers
11 and people across the world have responded
12 very quickly. And it is very important that
13 we continue our efforts. We can talk and
14 there's a lot to be said about the
15 relationship that we have had with Haiti, but
16 that's a subject for another day. Today is
17 about the deepest condolences for those
18 families who continue to have missing
19 relatives that they cannot find, for family
20 members that they know who are lost to them
21 forever.
22 I had the opportunity to realize,
23 during this catastrophe, the size and the
24 growing size of Haitian members that live in
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1 my communities. And I visited an all-Haitian
2 church where they speak only Creole and had
3 the pastor, the celebrant of that Episcopal
4 church translate my message into Creole. And
5 to have those people come and embrace me not
6 because I had done anything, but just because
7 I cared. And I think that that's what people
8 want more than anything for us to acknowledge,
9 that we care about human suffering.
10 And so that as we put information
11 on our websites and as we go forth and try to
12 do that which is appropriate, I thank this
13 body for the moments that we have taken today
14 in this session to thank those who have opened
15 their hearts and their pocketbooks, but more
16 for those who have yet to do so and know that
17 it is no robbery to share that which they
18 have.
19 Thank you, Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
21 you, Senator Hassell-Thompson.
22 Senator Diaz.
23 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you,
24 Mr. Chairman.
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1 We in the Hispanic community have
2 seen, Mr. Chairman, many destruction, many
3 incidents of catastrophic magnitude: Puerto
4 Rico, Santo Domingo, Mexico, Cuba, Honduras,
5 Columbia, Nicaragua, you name it. We have
6 seen big things happen. But like this thing
7 that happened in Haiti, nothing is equal to
8 that. This has been so far the biggest thing
9 that we have seen. And they said about
10 200,000 lives have been lost, more than a
11 million people have been affected -- children
12 have been left orphaned. So it is a big
13 problem that we are facing in Haiti.
14 But nonetheless, it is so
15 magnificent, Mr. President and ladies and
16 gentlemen, it is so great, the response of the
17 people of the State of New York and the City
18 of New York.
19 The district that I represent, the
20 32nd Senatorial District, there are poor
21 people there, people unemployed. They have
22 senior citizens, they don't have that much
23 money. But Saturday, this past Saturday, we
24 did a street marathon on Southern Boulevard in
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1 the Bronx, together with the office of the
2 Bronx Borough President, Ruben Diaz, Jr., and
3 the office of the Assemblyman Marcos Crespo,
4 the New York Hispanic Clergy Organization,
5 Radio Vision Cristiana Internacional, and the
6 cooperation of the New York City Police
7 Department under the direction of the Bronx
8 Borough Commander, Chief Purtell.
9 You have to see the outpouring of
10 people going there. On that day, five hours,
11 between the hours of 12:00 to 5:00, we placed
12 there two containers, 40-foot containers.
13 They got filled up, and they were shipped to
14 Santo Domingo so they will be taken to Haiti.
15 And we raised more than $50,000 that day
16 there.
17 It was so great that even the
18 Governor, I have to thank the Governor of the
19 State of New York, David Paterson, he showed
20 up there. And he showed his concern by
21 appearing in that street marathon and
22 contributing, with a thousand dollars, to that
23 marathon in the Bronx this past Saturday.
24 So we all could do something
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1 to help. No matter what we do, we
2 wouldn't be able to help the whole
3 situation. But that should not stop us
4 from saying we've got to do something.
5 My staff, the staff of my Senatorial --
6 my district staff, you've got to see
7 people coming out.
8 And I thank the people of the
9 Bronx, and I thank this institution, the
10 office of the Bronx Borough President, the
11 New York Hispanic Clergy Organization,
12 Assemblyman Marcos Crespo, the New York City
13 Police Department, Radio Vision Cristiana
14 Internacional and the Governor of the State of
15 New York, David Paterson, for showing there,
16 for helping us, and for showing that they
17 care.
18 And today I appreciate that Senator
19 Parker is introducing this resolution.
20 Because this is a time for unity, this is a
21 time for concern, a time to do something.
22 And I have also to recognize that
23 the office of Senator John Sampson gave me a
24 big hand in coordinating this activity on
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1 Saturday. So also to Senator Sampson I have
2 to appreciate, to express my appreciation for
3 all the help that they did Saturday in the
4 Bronx.
5 Thank you.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
7 you, Senator Diaz.
8 Senator Craig Johnson.
9 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank
10 you, Mr. President.
11 I also rise to echo my colleagues'
12 sentiments and statements about supporting the
13 efforts not just today to help the victims of
14 this terrible tragedy and disaster, but also
15 to ensure that as the days and weeks and
16 months go on, we continue those efforts.
17 Because it's not -- right now we're
18 still, incredibly, in the rescue phase. Every
19 day, it seems, there's incredible story of
20 survival that comes out of either
21 Port-au-Prince or the areas surrounding the
22 capital. Just last night two young children
23 were pulled out of the wreckage. So hope
24 continues to live on that we can find more
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1 survivors.
2 But when those rescue phases turn
3 to recovery phases, we need to make sure that
4 our aid -- whether it's a simple charitable
5 donation to your local Red Cross, whether it's
6 a state initiative, whether it's a national
7 initiative, we need to help the residents of
8 this island nation, an island nation that even
9 before this earthquake was on the brink.
10 A number of us, many of us here,
11 maybe all of us in this great chamber have
12 constituents who are either from or have
13 relatives who are Haitian, who live in Haiti.
14 Long Island is seeing its growing immigrant
15 population comes from the island of Haiti. In
16 my district, in areas like Westbury and
17 Elmont, the Haitian community is a strong,
18 vibrant community that contributes so much to
19 the work and the play of Nassau County.
20 But as a result, this tragedy has
21 truly struck home. And so my thoughts today
22 are with Lionel Sannon, a gentleman who lives
23 in Westbury who lost over 20 relatives in this
24 earthquake. His wife happened to luckily
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1 survive the earthquake and is now in the
2 islands of the Bahamas, but we need to help
3 bring her back and bring her back to Nassau
4 County. It is vital that she comes back and
5 receives medical care close to home so this
6 family can start to heal.
7 And so as we move forward, as we do
8 these food drives, as we do these financial
9 drives today, we need keep doing them beyond
10 today. Because sometimes that happens.
11 Sometimes, when the news cameras get shut off
12 and the reporters come home, tragedy lives on.
13 And tragedy will live on in Haiti and those
14 Haitians who live in our neighborhoods.
15 And so I hope that in the coming
16 months we can continue to work together to
17 provide the necessary resources to help this
18 island recover and help its citizens, who are
19 now our citizens, heal.
20 Thank you very much.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
22 you, Senator Johnson.
23 Senator Stewart-Cousins.
24 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Thank
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1 you, Mr. President.
2 I also rise to give my condolences
3 and talk about so much of what has happened,
4 and certainly in conjunction with Dr. King and
5 how his inspiration allows us a vision that
6 goes far beyond what it is that happens in our
7 lives.
8 What happened in Haiti is so much
9 intertwined with what we have celebrated and
10 what we continue to celebrate as humanity.
11 When I listen to Dr. King's whole "Dream"
12 speech, he talked about, at that time, Negroes
13 on the island of poverty. And when you look
14 at Haiti and you see the impoverished nation
15 that we are all gazing upon, we realize how
16 much work we have to do.
17 And so it is important that we
18 realize that in fulfilling Dr. King's dream,
19 we are able to look at nations and people and
20 understand that our work will never be done
21 until that level of poverty is eradicated.
22 I also rose to talk about a pastor
23 from my district -- Hawthorne, New York -- who
24 lost his life in Haiti. He was trapped for
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1 55 hours under the rubble of a fallen hotel.
2 They got him back to Florida only for him to
3 die. His name was Reverend Clinton Rabb.
4 And I raise his name so that we can
5 understand that the Clinton Rabbs of the
6 world, the Reverend Clinton Rabbs of the
7 world, were in Haiti doing work in that
8 country to uplift that nation to do things
9 that we never thought about doing until now.
10 And so we must understand that we
11 have a bigger mission, a bigger vision, a
12 bigger responsibility. And as we work to
13 rescue the people and rescue what we can and
14 rebuild, we have to do it on a daily basis
15 from our seats here, from our communities and
16 throughout the nation. It is a fitting
17 tribute.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
19 you, Senator Stewart-Cousins.
20 Are there any other Senators
21 wishing to be heard on this resolution?
22 The question is then on the
23 resolution. All those in favor please signify
24 by saying aye.
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1 (Response of "Aye.")
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
3 Opposed, nay.
4 (No response.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The
6 resolution is adopted.
7 Senator Parker has indicated that
8 the resolution is open to all members. Anyone
9 wishing not to be on the resolution please
10 notify the desk.
11 Senator Smith.
12 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you very
13 much, Mr. President.
14 At this time may we please adopt
15 the Resolution Calendar in its entirety.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: All
17 those in favor of adopting the Resolution
18 Calendar please signify by saying aye.
19 (Response of "Aye.")
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
21 Opposed, nay.
22 (No response.)
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The
24 Resolution Calendar is adopted.
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1 Senator Smith.
2 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. President,
3 there will be an immediate meeting of the
4 Finance Committee in Room 332, followed by an
5 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee.
6 Pending the return of the Rules
7 Committee, may we please stand at ease.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The
9 Senate will stand at ease pending the return
10 of the Finance Committee and the Rules
11 Committee.
12 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
13 ease at 1:11 p.m.)
14 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened
15 at 1:47 p.m.)
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
17 Senator Klein.
18 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, I
19 just want to alert the members that there will
20 be an immediate Labor Committee meeting in
21 Room 332.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: There
23 will be an immediate meeting of the Labor
24 Committee in Room 332.
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1 The Senate remains at ease.
2 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at
3 ease at 1:48 p.m.)
4 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened
5 at 2:06 p.m.)
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
7 Senator Klein.
8 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, I
9 believe there's a report of the Rules
10 Committee at the desk.
11 I move that we adopt the report of
12 the Rules Committee at this time.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The
14 Secretary will read.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith,
16 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
17 following bills:
18 Senate Print 6439, by Senator
19 Squadron, an act to amend the Public Officers
20 Law;
21 And Senate Print 6457, by Senator
22 Schneiderman, an act to amend the Executive
23 Law.
24 Both bills ordered direct to third
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1 reading.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: All
3 those in favor of accepting the report of the
4 Rules Committee please signify by saying aye.
5 (Response of "Aye.")
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
7 Opposed, nay.
8 (No response.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The
10 report of the Rules Committee is adopted.
11 Senator Klein.
12 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, at
13 this time could we please move to a reading of
14 the calendar.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The
16 Secretary will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 4, by Senator Klein, Senate Print 1904A, an
19 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to
20 maximum age.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Read
22 the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
24 act shall take effect immediately.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Call
2 the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
5 Announce the results.
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The
8 bill is passed.
9 Senator Klein.
10 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, at
11 this time could we please move to a reading of
12 the supplemental calendar.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The
14 Secretary will read.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 17, by Senator Squadron, Senate Print 6439, an
17 act to amend the Public Officers Law.
18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay it aside.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The
20 bill is laid aside.
21 The Secretary will continue to
22 read.
23 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
24 Calendar Number 18, Senator Schneiderman moves
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1 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
2 Assembly Bill Number 9544 and substitute it
3 for the identical Senate Bill Number 6457,
4 Third Reading Calendar 18.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
6 Substitution ordered.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 18, by Member of the Assembly Silver, Assembly
9 Print Number 9544, an act to amend the
10 Executive Law.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Read
12 the last section.
13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay it aside.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The
15 bill is laid aside.
16 Senator Klein, that completes the
17 reading of the noncontroversial calendar.
18 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, at
19 this time can we please move to the reading of
20 the controversial supplemental calendar.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: If the
22 Secretary would please ring the bell, members
23 are asked to come to the chamber for the
24 controversial reading of the calendar.
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1 The Secretary will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 17, by Senator Squadron, Senate Print 6439, an
4 act to amend the Public --
5 SENATOR LIBOUS: Explanation,
6 please.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
8 Senator Squadron, an explanation has been
9 requested.
10 SENATOR SQUADRON: Thank you,
11 Mr. President.
12 This bill is meant to clarify some
13 gaps in state law. It would create a clear
14 standard on activity that is undeniably wrong.
15 I think all of us in the chamber would know
16 what's wrong and should unquestionably be
17 prohibited. Unfortunately, under current law,
18 it's not, in a clear way.
19 What that bill does is it says you
20 can't use your government resources for
21 outside compensated business activities. It's
22 pretty clear. It says it in a couple of ways.
23 It clarifies the Code of Ethics,
24 which currently has an unwarranted privileges
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1 reference. And instead of just leaving it at
2 that, it makes it very clear you can't use
3 your government resources for outside
4 compensated business under the Code of Ethics.
5 In addition, in the Penal Law it
6 makes clear that an ongoing scheme -- it
7 actually makes it an ongoing scheme to defraud
8 the government. Using your government
9 resources for outside business in a value
10 greater than $1,000 would be a violation under
11 the Penal Law.
12 Both of these provisions, both the
13 unwarranted privileges under the Code of
14 Ethics and the standard of defrauding the
15 government under the Penal Law, have been used
16 in Albany in recent times or referenced.
17 And they've also, as we all know,
18 sometimes not been used. And we know that
19 some recent cases have not happened in state
20 court at all, have not happened under the
21 Legislative Ethics Commission at all. There's
22 a gap in state law when it comes to being
23 clear on this behavior that we all know
24 shouldn't happen, we all know in our bones
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1 should be prohibited.
2 The bill's intent is really not
3 controversial. Its provisions are not
4 surprising. It is a little bit shocking that
5 the provisions don't currently exist in state
6 law. And it's a little bit shocking that this
7 gap in state law has been exploited in the
8 ways that it has.
9 You know, I'm sure there will be
10 some questions on this bill and on the next
11 bill that we're going to discuss. And I thank
12 Senator Sampson and Senator Schneiderman and
13 Senator Krueger and a lot of others who have
14 worked on these issues for a long time.
15 And as we begin this debate, I'm
16 reminded that in Albany everyone is in favor
17 of ethics enforcement so long as there are no
18 laws to enforce ethics. I think that's how we
19 got this gap in state law. And I think that
20 by passing this bill and hopefully the next
21 bill, we'll go a long way in filling that gap.
22 Thank you, Mr. President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
24 Senator DeFrancisco.
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1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, would
2 the Senator yield to a couple of questions?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
4 Senator Squadron, will you yield for a couple
5 of questions?
6 SENATOR SQUADRON: Sure.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
8 Senator DeFrancisco, you may proceed.
9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: You had
10 indicated that it's shocking that this type of
11 conduct is not already prohibited under the
12 law. Have there been any cases attempting to
13 prosecute somebody under this law as it now
14 exists for the circumstances that you're
15 trying to clarify?
16 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you,
17 Mr. President, to be clear, it is not
18 explicitly prohibited under state law.
19 I would make the argument that the
20 "unwarranted privileges" phrase in the Code of
21 Ethics and the defrauding-the-government
22 component of the Penal Law both potentially
23 could be used.
24 I also, I think, would point to the
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1 fact that we've had some recent cases in the
2 federal courts, not in the state courts or
3 under the Legislative Ethics Commission.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
5 Senator DeFrancisco.
6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would he
7 yield to the question again.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
9 Senator Squadron, will you continue to yield
10 to Senator DeFrancisco?
11 SENATOR SQUADRON: I'd be happy
12 to.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
14 Senator DeFrancisco.
15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: The
16 question was, simply, have there been
17 instances where this type of conduct has been
18 attempted to be prosecuted under the existing
19 statute that for some reason was unsuccessful
20 and therefore the statute needs to be
21 clarified?
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
23 Senator Squadron.
24 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you,
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1 Mr. President, if Senator DeFrancisco is
2 thinking of a specific case, I would be happy
3 to discuss it.
4 I know there have been some cases
5 in which this has been referenced by the
6 Inspector General and others. But if there's
7 a specific case that he's interested in, I'd
8 be happy to discuss it.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
10 Senator DeFrancisco.
11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I'll just
12 make a point and I'll have another question.
13 I'm not looking for any specific
14 case. I'm asking if the sponsor, who believes
15 that this language is necessary to form some
16 kind of clarification, I'm just asking whether
17 or not he knows of any case where there was a
18 difficulty in prosecuting the conduct that he
19 wants to prosecute -- or to clarify it in the
20 statute, whether there's been any difficulty
21 of any case that he knows of.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
23 Senator Squadron.
24 SENATOR SQUADRON: Just
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1 confirming. And, you know, I think that what
2 you see is as we're coming and there's no
3 obvious answer to what the Senator is asking,
4 is that we don't have clarity in the law. And
5 we have, as I have said, seen cases where this
6 has clearly happened and clearly not been
7 prosecuted under state law nor pursued under
8 the Code of Ethics.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
10 Senator DeFrancisco.
11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: You had
12 indicated -- excuse me.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
14 Through the chair.
15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would the
16 Senator yield to another question?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Do you
18 yield, Senator Squadron?
19 SENATOR SQUADRON: Sure thing.
20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: The
21 language that's in the bill talks about
22 unwarranted privileges being taken by someone.
23 What's the definition of warranted? Is there
24 a definition under the statute, so that
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1 anybody that might be faced with questions
2 under this statute could at least explain --
3 or at least know what is warranted and what's
4 not?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
6 Senator Squadron.
7 SENATOR SQUADRON: Well, I'd like
8 to thank Senator DeFrancisco, actually, for
9 making that point. Although I'd like to
10 clarify something.
11 Unwarranted privileges is actually
12 in the law currently. It's not modified by
13 this bill. Although I do, as I say, want to
14 thank Senator DeFrancisco for pointing out
15 that as currently written that language I
16 don't think has the clarity that we will have
17 once we pass this -- hopefully pass this bill
18 into law.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
20 Senator DeFrancisco.
21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would the
22 Senator continue to yield?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
24 Senator Squadron, would you continue to yield
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1 for another question by Senator DeFrancisco?
2 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes.
3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: The statute
4 apparently prohibits someone securing
5 unwarranted privileges, including but not
6 limited to misappropriation to himself,
7 herself, or others of property, services or
8 other resources for private business or other
9 compensated nongovernmental processes.
10 Does this statute prohibit the
11 unwarranted privileges being accepted for
12 personal use?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
14 Senator Squadron.
15 SENATOR SQUADRON: This statute
16 as written -- and again, I know Senator
17 DeFrancisco read the language. I will read a
18 smaller section of the language for clarity:
19 "for private business or other compensated
20 nongovernmental purposes." I think that's
21 clear.
22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: All right.
23 So would he yield to another question?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
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1 Senator Squadron, would you continue to yield
2 for another question?
3 SENATOR SQUADRON: I will.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
5 Senator Squadron will yield. You may proceed.
6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: There's
7 nothing in this statute as you've modified it
8 that would prohibit someone from taking
9 unwarranted privileges for personal use as
10 opposed to business or compensating uses.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
12 Senator Squadron.
13 SENATOR SQUADRON: To be clear,
14 Senator DeFrancisco asked that question quite
15 specifically. As modified, I agree that this
16 statute would not change the definition of
17 unwarranted privileges as applies to other
18 uses.
19 It's also, I think, quite clear
20 that this is not limiting language, it is
21 clarifying language. And so, as written, it
22 would not modify the definition of unwarranted
23 privileges other than in the way that it does,
24 which is with this clarification.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
2 Senator DeFrancisco.
3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would the
4 Senator continue to yield?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
6 Senator Squadron, will you continue to yield?
7 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
9 Senator DeFrancisco.
10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: So, Senator
11 Squadron, are you saying that the existing
12 statute before this amendment would prohibit
13 someone from obtaining unwarranted privileges
14 for personal use, under the language as it
15 currently exists?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
17 Senator Squadron.
18 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you,
19 Mr. President, as you may know, I'm relatively
20 new here still, although it feels less new
21 every day. And this unwarranted-privileges
22 statute was passed into law before I was here.
23 I am not an attorney. In terms of discussing
24 the existing law that's not being modified, I
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1 certainly wouldn't put myself forward as the
2 authority.
3 As a Senator in this body that is
4 certainly modifying law around that language,
5 I think that it's pretty clear from the
6 existing law that all unwarranted privileges
7 for himself, herself, or others are prohibited
8 under this statute.
9 I also, though, would point out
10 that it has been difficult to prosecute or in
11 this case to follow up on violations of the
12 statute as currently written. And again, this
13 clarification would do it.
14 I think that, again, the cases that
15 you see -- including Senator Bruno and
16 others -- that are not pursued under state law
17 and are in fact pursued in federal court would
18 call out loudly for this clarification.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
20 Senator DeFrancisco.
21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would the
22 Senator yield to one additional question.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
24 Senator Squadron, would you yield for one last
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1 question?
2 SENATOR SQUADRON: One or more.
3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: One or
4 more? Okay, thank you.
5 Senator, with respect to
6 Section A(ii), this is a new section that
7 prohibits someone from defrauding the state by
8 making use of property, et cetera, et cetera.
9 Correct?
10 SENATOR SQUADRON: That is
11 correct.
12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would he
13 answer one other --
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
15 Senator Squadron --
16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: -- one
17 other question, please.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
19 Senator Squadron, would you yield for one more
20 last question?
21 SENATOR SQUADRON: Sure. That
22 may be a statement that needs clarification,
23 so of course I'd be happy to.
24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator
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1 Squadron, isn't there existing laws
2 prohibiting anyone from defrauding the
3 government or to committing fraud by use of a
4 position?
5 In other words, do you need another
6 statute saying the same thing as existing law?
7 Fraud is illegal, isn't it, presently?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
9 Senator Squadron.
10 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you,
11 Mr. President, I do hope this is the final
12 question, if only because I think it's a full
13 circle and really defines the need for this
14 law.
15 Yes, I do believe, just as I do
16 under unwarranted privileges -- and I don't
17 just believe it, it's a matter of undeniable
18 fact that defrauding the government is a
19 crime.
20 I think it's also a matter of
21 undeniable fact that you have seen this
22 activity repeatedly not be pursued under state
23 law. And that comes, in my view, from any
24 number of issues. I think that the bill we're
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1 about to debate will hopefully help with some
2 of them.
3 But this law will fill that gap in
4 state law that I think has too often led to a
5 lack of clarity where, with behavior like
6 this -- and it's possible that Senator
7 DeFrancisco and others disagree with me. My
8 view is that with behavior like this, you
9 should be as clear as possible. I think
10 that's better for us as public officers. I
11 think that's better for the state in terms of
12 being able to ensure integrity among its
13 public officers.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
15 Senator DeFrancisco.
16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: On the
17 bill.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
19 Senator DeFrancisco on the bill.
20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: With
21 respect to this bill, it seems to me it's a
22 bill that may be good political fodder, but it
23 really is not necessary.
24 If the existing law is that you
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1 can't take unwarranted privileges for personal
2 use, then certainly the law would also
3 prohibit not taking unwarranted privileges for
4 purposes of your business or for compensation.
5 I mean, it just follows logically.
6 The fact that some one prosecutor
7 chooses not to prosecute, for whatever reason,
8 in state court under this provision or another
9 provision doesn't change the fact that the law
10 already prohibits this type of conduct.
11 Similarly, fraud is fraud is fraud
12 is fraud. And to say that you're going to
13 prohibit someone from defrauding the
14 government, well, it's already a statute and
15 it's already a statute that could be
16 prosecuted. The fact that someone chooses not
17 to, the prosecutor chooses not to, that's
18 fine.
19 So the point I would like to make,
20 in this day and age of reform and trying to
21 make certain that we make sure that everybody
22 who's in public office is under the utmost
23 possible scrutiny for any possible reason,
24 even though there's existing laws that already
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1 prohibit that -- well, this may make good
2 political sense, but as a practical matter I
3 think it's superfluous, it's not needed, and
4 that is the point I would like to make.
5 Thank you.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
7 you, Senator DeFrancisco.
8 Senator Saland.
9 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you,
10 Mr. President. Would the sponsor yield?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
12 Senator Squadron, do you yield for a question
13 from Senator Saland?
14 SENATOR SQUADRON: I will.
15 SENATOR SALAND: Senator
16 Squadron, if I understood you correctly, the
17 language which you have added in lines 7
18 through 10 is intended to, in effect, flesh
19 out or make more understandable what
20 constitutes an unwarranted privilege under the
21 existing law. Is that --
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
23 Senator Squadron.
24 SENATOR SQUADRON: I'd say that
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1 lines 7 through 10 clarify one sort of
2 unwarranted privilege that is particularly
3 glaring and has, shockingly, not been pursued
4 even when taken.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
6 Senator Saland.
7 SENATOR SALAND: If Senator
8 Squadron were to continue to yield.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Will
10 you continue to yield, Senator Squadron?
11 SENATOR SQUADRON: Of course.
12 SENATOR SALAND: You make
13 reference to property, services, and other
14 resources. I know what property is. I know
15 what services are. I'm not quite sure what
16 other resources are. What is it that you
17 intend to be covered by "other resources"?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
19 Senator Squadron.
20 SENATOR SQUADRON: Well, I think
21 "other resources" would be government
22 resources that are neither property nor
23 services.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
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1 Senator Saland.
2 SENATOR SALAND: If you'd
3 continue to yield, would you care to give me a
4 couple of examples of what might be those
5 other resources?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Will
7 you continue to yield, Senator Squadron?
8 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes. Yes, I
9 will.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You
11 may proceed, Senator Saland.
12 SENATOR SALAND: Might you
13 provide me with a couple of examples of those
14 other governmental --
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
16 Senator Squadron.
17 SENATOR SQUADRON: I'd be happy
18 to describe that value of the part of the law,
19 which is, to be quite serious, a clear and
20 blanket prohibition on government resources.
21 As Senator Saland points out, we
22 know what property is, we know what services
23 is. Certainly without trying to come up out
24 of thin air right now with an example of an
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1 additional government resource, I would say
2 that the reason for that language is to ensure
3 that neither property nor services are read
4 through a pinhole.
5 SENATOR SALAND: I'm sorry, I
6 didn't hear the conclusion of the Senator's
7 comment.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
9 Senator Squadron, Senator Saland has indicated
10 he did not hear the last part of your answer.
11 SENATOR SQUADRON: That language
12 is there to ensure that neither property nor
13 services are read through a pinhole, to make
14 clear this is a broad prohibition on the use
15 of government resources of all forms.
16 SENATOR SALAND: Would the
17 Senator continue to yield?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Do you
19 continue to yield, Senator Squadron?
20 SENATOR SQUADRON: I'd be happy
21 to.
22 SENATOR SALAND: Would other
23 resources also constitute communications
24 seeking outcomes with government agencies?
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
2 Senator Squadron.
3 SENATOR SQUADRON: I think it
4 would depend what resources were used in those
5 communications. I don't think that on its
6 face, in all cases, the example described
7 would be prohibited.
8 SENATOR SALAND: If the Senator
9 would continue to yield.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
11 Senator Squadron, will you continue to yield?
12 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes.
13 SENATOR SALAND: Senator
14 Squadron, as you know, we all from time to
15 time are called upon to communicate with a
16 variety of government agencies. We do that in
17 our official capacity as a state legislator.
18 Some of us have occupations or are
19 involved in activities that are other than the
20 one we serve in as we function here as a
21 legislator. And if we contact a state agency,
22 say for example I -- and I happen to be a
23 lawyer -- I contact a state agency on behalf
24 of a former client or I'm a businessperson, I
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1 contact that state agency on behalf of a
2 former business associate, seeking either to
3 set up a meeting between that individual and
4 that particular agency, does that constitute
5 an unwarranted privilege whereby I'm seeking
6 to somehow or other gain by reason of my
7 office?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
9 Senator Squadron.
10 SENATOR SQUADRON: I'd like to
11 say that I'm reluctant to define here today
12 the entire meaning of unwarranted privileges
13 as it's existed since passed into law. I
14 certainly don't have its legislative history.
15 I do not have a canonical record in front of
16 me of its definition.
17 I would say, however, in the
18 example you cited, you suggested former. So
19 it could be that pointing you to line 9 and
20 10, the reference to private business or other
21 compensated nongovernmental purpose, might
22 lend some guidance there in terms of the new
23 language.
24 In terms of the definition of
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1 unwarranted privileges as it exists and has
2 existed, I'm going to have to leave that to a
3 different day.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
5 Senator Saland.
6 SENATOR SALAND: Well, that --
7 I'm sorry, did you say you have to leave that
8 to another day? Is that what you said?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
10 Senator Squadron, do you continue to yield for
11 the additional question?
12 SENATOR SQUADRON: I will.
13 And what I said was, as I said to
14 Senator DeFrancisco, rather than look at this
15 bill as creating a new limit on the definition
16 of unwarranted privileges, I think that you
17 should see this bill as a clarification of one
18 of unwarranted privileges' meanings.
19 And so what I feel that we should
20 focus on and talk about today is that new
21 specific reference to unwarranted privileges,
22 rather than try to define out all others that
23 aren't necessarily discussed in the new
24 language in this bill.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
2 Senator Saland.
3 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you,
4 Mr. President. I would respectfully beg to
5 differ with Senator Squadron, because I think
6 it's critically important to --
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
8 Senator Saland, do you have a question for
9 Senator Squadron?
10 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, I do have a
11 question for Senator Squadron.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Then,
13 Senator Squadron, do you continue to yield?
14 SENATOR SQUADRON: I will.
15 SENATOR SALAND: Your language
16 talks in terms of both private business and
17 other compensated nongovernmental purposes.
18 And that's repeated in the next section, which
19 is on the following page.
20 I'll come back to what I asked
21 previously. You have stated that it's your
22 intention to provide some clarification to the
23 section of existing law dealing with
24 unwarranted privileges. In order to do that,
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1 you had to have some sense of what constituted
2 an unwarranted privilege.
3 There's nobody in this chamber --
4 no man, no woman, no member of this chamber --
5 who does not deal with state agencies. You
6 deal with them in a multitude of capacities.
7 And some of the people in this chamber wear
8 more than one hat in their lives.
9 And when you make a call to a state
10 agency for some purpose -- and that purpose
11 may well constitute private business; you're
12 doing it in your official capacity, it
13 involves the private business of the person
14 for whom you are making the phone call -- are
15 you, by reason of your office, seeking an
16 unwarranted privilege? Particularly if you at
17 one time or another had a relationship with
18 that person in your business or professional
19 life or have a relationship with that person
20 in your existing business or professional
21 life.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
23 Senator Squadron.
24 SENATOR SQUADRON: I'd like to be
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1 clear about two things. Through you, of
2 course.
3 The first is my reluctance is on
4 limiting the definition of unwarranted
5 privileges, not in discussing its effect. I
6 think we actually have had some discussion
7 today of the effect of unwarranted privileges.
8 And you see my reluctance whenever there's
9 sort of an attempt to limit what it might not
10 include -- or to get a definitive statement
11 from me of what it absolutely does include. I
12 don't think that's what we're talking about
13 today.
14 I think what we're talking about is
15 what it would include if this law passes. And
16 hopefully we all agree that including what
17 would be added would be a good thing.
18 I would also, though, to the point
19 Senator Saland was making, point to the
20 misappropriation of such government resources
21 and would say that while I certainly don't
22 know the specifics of Senator Saland's
23 hypothetical, I think that the simple fact of
24 calling a state agency, even in one's outside
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1 business dealings, would not necessarily
2 constitute a misappropriation. And I would
3 ask each public officer to, in each case,
4 ensure they are not misappropriating
5 government resources when they're using them.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
7 Senator Saland.
8 SENATOR SALAND: On the bill,
9 Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
11 Senator Saland on the bill.
12 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I
13 came here assuming that this was a bill that
14 could be readily explained. I came here,
15 concerned, as one of 62 members of this house
16 and one who full well appreciates the
17 sensitivity at times of issues that we are
18 involved in because a number of us wear two
19 hats.
20 I have found no comfort whatsoever
21 in the responses that have been provided by
22 Senator Squadron. His intent certainly is
23 noble. I would hope that he might go back to
24 the drawing board and come up with something
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1 that really responds to the questions that
2 I've asked.
3 How many times a week do the
4 members of this chamber call or ask a member
5 of their staff to call an agency? And
6 particularly for those of us who wear more
7 than one hat, are we somehow or other
8 misappropriating our office or taking
9 advantage of our office under this language
10 that has been proposed by Senator Squadron?
11 I'm not sure I heard an answer that told me
12 that that's okay.
13 So if, for example, those of us who
14 do practice law, those of us who might be
15 insurance agents, those of us who might have
16 some other activity, you may be severely
17 circumscribed in what you're permitted to do
18 and not be able to fully represent the people
19 in your district who come to you with any
20 number of constituent issues that you
21 routinely go to an agency to deal with.
22 That's a very, very frightening thought.
23 Now, politically, this is a bill
24 that the last thing you want to do is have to
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1 explain why you would vote no. But the bottom
2 line is that this is a bill that is sorely
3 lacking and puts at risk virtually anybody, as
4 I said earlier, who does not exclusively serve
5 as a legislator -- and may put at risk some
6 who do exclusively serve as a legislator.
7 So I would only hope that when the
8 day is done -- I know there's no same-as
9 currently -- that we get to see a bill that
10 deals with the problem that Senator Squadron
11 would like to deal with but deals with it in a
12 fashion that doesn't put at risk the public
13 service of any number if not the majority of
14 people in this chamber.
15 Thank you, Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
17 you, Senator Saland.
18 Are there any other Senators
19 wishing to be heard?
20 Senator Diaz.
21 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you,
22 Mr. President. Would Senator Squadron yield
23 for a question or two, please.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
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1 Senator Squadron, will you yield to Senator
2 Diaz for a question?
3 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes, I would.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
5 Senator Diaz, you may proceed.
6 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, Senator
7 Squadron.
8 I'm reading the bill and it says no
9 officer or employee of a state agency, member
10 of the Legislature, or legislative employee
11 should use or attempt to use his or her
12 official position to secure unwarranted
13 privilege.
14 Let me play Columbo here. I know
15 you already said something, but would you
16 please tell me again what is unwarranted
17 privilege?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
19 Senator Squadron.
20 SENATOR SQUADRON: The lines of
21 the bill that Senator Diaz read there, just to
22 point out, are not new language. That's the
23 existing law that was written. The phrase
24 "unwarranted privileges" does not start with
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1 this bill. It won't be passed into law if
2 this bill is. There is, in fact, a same-as,
3 so I'm very hopeful it will be passed into
4 law.
5 But "unwarranted privileges" has to
6 this point, as I understand it, been
7 interpreted by the Inspector General and
8 others to mean inappropriately using one's
9 position or government resources for something
10 other than their appropriate and official use.
11 That's my understanding in a broad sense of
12 it.
13 I think that clearly it has not
14 been a tool that's been used a lot. And this
15 bill will hopefully make it significantly
16 clearer in the case of compensated outside
17 business.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
19 Senator Diaz.
20 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President,
21 would Senator Squadron yield for another
22 question.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
24 Senator Squadron, will you continue to yield
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1 to Senator Diaz?
2 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You
4 may proceed, Senator Diaz.
5 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator Squadron,
6 is the use of a vehicle a privilege?
7 SENATOR SQUADRON: The use --
8 SENATOR DIAZ: Of a state
9 vehicle.
10 SENATOR SQUADRON: Is the use of
11 a state vehicle a privilege? I would say that
12 a state vehicle is certainly a government
13 resource.
14 SENATOR DIAZ: Do --
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Yes,
16 Senator Diaz, you may continue.
17 SENATOR DIAZ: So the use of a
18 state vehicle, Senator Squadron, is a
19 privilege?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
21 Senator Squadron.
22 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes or no?
23 SENATOR SQUADRON: The use of a
24 government vehicle is a privilege? See, it
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1 seems to me that the context of the use of it
2 would be -- would have to be considered. I
3 think that currently a government vehicle is a
4 government resource. I think that the
5 language of this bill would not affect that
6 use in any way unless potentially it was being
7 used for outside compensated business
8 activities. And I think in that case then it
9 would, under this bill, likely be an
10 unwarranted privilege, yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
12 Senator Diaz.
13 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President,
14 would Senator Squadron yield for another
15 question?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
17 Senator Squadron, will you yield for another
18 question?
19 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes.
20 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator Squadron,
21 so if I use a state vehicle to go or to do any
22 other thing that is not related with my
23 senatorial duties, like going to work to my
24 second job, is that an unwarranted privilege?
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1 Am I using the government property for
2 personal reason, would that be included in
3 there?
4 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you,
5 Mr. President, I would point out that we're
6 talking about the Code of Ethics under the
7 Public Officers Law. It is widely recognized
8 and understood that de minimis, something of
9 de minimis value is not covered. So I think
10 that there would be a question, again, as to
11 in the hypothetical.
12 I would say this. If you're using
13 a state vehicle to sell ice cream all summer,
14 I think that would be an unwarranted
15 privilege, clearly, under this bill. I think
16 that as the hypotheticals move one way or the
17 other, we'd have to look at them in a lot more
18 specifics.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
20 Senator Diaz.
21 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you,
22 Mr. President.
23 Senator Squadron, I'm not talking
24 about a hypothetical thing, I'm talking about
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1 reality here. And the reality is --
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Do you
3 have a question, Senator Diaz?
4 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President,
5 would Senator Squadron yield for another
6 question?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
8 Senator Squadron, will you continue to yield?
9 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes.
10 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator Squadron,
11 I'm not talking about nothing in the air, I'm
12 talking about reality. The reality is that
13 most of the criticism that this body has
14 gotten that is that we are part-time workers
15 and that this job is a part-time job.
16 I could assure you, Senator
17 Squadron, that I not a part-time Senator. I
18 am every day in my office from 9:00 to
19 whatever, attending to constituents. But,
20 Senator Squadron -- and I'm going to get to my
21 question -- there are members of this body
22 that really are part-time. And that when
23 session ends in June, they go to do their own
24 business, to their private businesses.
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1 Now, some of them are using
2 government property as a vehicle during the
3 whole year. Will you tell me that those
4 members of this body that use their vehicle
5 when session ends and they are going on their
6 own business, to do their private business,
7 they are violating the law?
8 SENATOR SQUADRON: Again, through
9 you, Mr. President, de minimis violations
10 aside, I would say that today, yes. If this
11 law passes, yes.
12 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you,
13 Senator.
14 Thank you, Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
16 you, Senator Diaz.
17 Senator Bonacic.
18 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you,
19 Mr. Chairman. Will the sponsor yield for one
20 question?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
22 Senator Squadron, will you yield for one
23 question from Senator Bonacic?
24 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes.
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1 SENATOR BONACIC: I hadn't
2 intended to ask you any questions, but you
3 raised my curiosity and concern with your
4 back-and-forth with Senator Saland.
5 I want to ask you one question for
6 clarification. I have a contributor that
7 contributes to my campaign, as an example, and
8 then he asks me to call or she asks me to call
9 the DEC for an environmental problem they're
10 having with their gas station. Is that -- am
11 I in violation of an unwarranted service or
12 privilege, in your mind, under your intent
13 under this legislation?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
15 Senator Squadron.
16 SENATOR SQUADRON: To answer
17 Senator Bonacic's question, and hopefully to
18 answer Senator Saland's question -- again, a
19 former client in Senator Saland's example, a
20 contributor in Senator Bonacic's example,
21 neither count, as I understand it. Neither
22 would be compensated business. So neither
23 would be affected by this bill.
24 I believe there may be other
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1 components of the law that deal with how one
2 deals with contributors, but that's not what
3 this is. This is about compensated outside
4 business.
5 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you,
6 Senator Squadron.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Are
8 there any other Senators who wish to be heard?
9 (No response.)
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: In
11 that event, the debate is closed.
12 The Secretary will please ring the
13 bells.
14 (Pause.)
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Read
16 the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Call
20 the roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
23 Announce the results.
24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. Nays,
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1 0.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The
3 bill is passed.
4 The Secretary will continue to
5 read.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 18, substituted earlier today by Member of the
8 Assembly Silver, Assembly Print Number 9544,
9 an act to amend the Executive Law.
10 SENATOR LIBOUS: Explanation,
11 please.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: An
13 explanation has been requested, Senator
14 Schneiderman.
15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
16 Mr. President.
17 The bill before us now is the
18 Ethics Reform Act of 2010. It is a piece of
19 legislation that contains a series of reforms
20 to both the ethics and the election and
21 campaign finance laws of the State of
22 New York.
23 As far as I'm concerned, this is a
24 bill that has been a long time in coming. I'm
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1 glad we are finally getting to vote on it here
2 today.
3 I have to say, Mr. President, when
4 I first started coming up here about 11 years
5 ago, I felt as though when we enter the
6 Capitol area we come into kind of a fog in
7 which good people seem to lose their sense
8 that "go along to get along" and "pay to play"
9 is somehow objectionable.
10 Ladies and gentlemen, there is
11 something about the atmosphere here, the
12 culture that has developed here, that leads to
13 good people to turn a blind eye to daily
14 transactions in which public interest is
15 trumped by private benefit.
16 And this bill is designed to pierce
17 that fog. I would suggest that this is the
18 first step in changing that culture. This is
19 the first step in ending pay-to-play as we
20 know it in Albany.
21 The message from this bill to
22 everyone who has worked here, in a capital
23 where disclosure is minimal, transparency is a
24 joke, and enforcement is something that is
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1 limited to the state troopers in Greene
2 County -- the one area of the Thruway where
3 they give us tickets -- the message of this
4 bill is that the game is over.
5 Ladies and gentlemen, we have
6 several provisions in the bill. I know we'll
7 be talking about it for a while, but let me
8 outline it generally.
9 First of all, this changes the
10 ethics laws in the state to deal with a
11 fundamental fact that the people of the State
12 of New York seem to understand, even if it's
13 taken us a while here to get it.
14 Our financial disclosure system as
15 it exists now is a joke. This bill would
16 change that. For the first time, we'll end
17 the system of redacting the amount of money we
18 make from our financial disclosure forms. We
19 will set up a system whereby the forms we file
20 are actually reviewed. There's a system of
21 general review to ensure accuracy and random
22 review, to ensure that we're actually filling
23 out the forms properly.
24 This bill for the first time will
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1 require that anyone who does business with the
2 state and seeks to influence us, anyone who is
3 a lobbyist or who hires a lobbyist, who pays
4 any of us, has to disclose that relationship
5 this is -- it's really remarkable that this is
6 not the law now. It is not the law now. This
7 bill sounds the death knell for the shroud of
8 secrecy, for this fog that has enveloped the
9 state government for too long.
10 This bill also broadens the
11 definition of lobbying. Right now no one has
12 to report if they're lobbying us on a budget
13 resolution. This bill would broaden the
14 definition of lobbying to make sure that it
15 covers everything.
16 The second component of this bill
17 is the change in the election and campaign
18 finance laws. And I have to say that these
19 portions of the bill to me personally are the
20 most important, because we now have a system
21 of campaign finance laws in which the public
22 has no confidence. And quite honestly, ladies
23 and gentlemen, I think the public is right to
24 have little or no confidence.
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1 Independent expenditures on behalf
2 or against a candidate are not now reported.
3 Under this bill, they would be reported. We
4 will mandate for the first time that we have
5 the actual -- we actually have an enforcement
6 unit that must be funded in the Board of
7 Elections to enforce the law when it comes to
8 violations of the campaign finance laws. We
9 increase penalties. We even have a "three
10 strikes you're out" provision which we put in
11 specially for Senator Volker to ensure that he
12 votes for the bill. In case you fail to file
13 reports three times, the penalties are
14 substantially enhanced.
15 The partisan gridlock that has made
16 our campaign enforcement system a joke is
17 ended by this bill. Right now you need a
18 majority of members of the Board of Elections,
19 which is split between Republicans and
20 Democrats, to vote to begin an enforcement
21 proceeding. This bill changes it so you need
22 a majority to stop an enforcement proceeding.
23 And it creates an independent enforcement unit
24 whose funding is mandated, with counsel who
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1 gets a term of years so they can't be fired
2 for being overly aggressive.
3 This bill creates the reality of a
4 campaign finance system that enforces laws,
5 that clarifies law. This bill also restores,
6 in both the ethics and campaign finance areas,
7 a system of getting advisory opinions so that
8 any of us who want to know the answer to a
9 question, who want to be clear that we're
10 complying with the law, can get that answer.
11 So, ladies and gentlemen, this
12 bill -- which has been criticized because it
13 doesn't go far enough, and there are some of
14 my colleagues who think it should do more to
15 require disclosure from lawyers or it should
16 do more to limit campaign contributions. I
17 don't disagree with them. I don't disagree
18 with them. This doesn't do everything. This
19 doesn't provide for public financing of
20 campaigns. There are a lot of bills that I
21 sponsor whose elements I would like to see in
22 this legislation. It's not all here.
23 But I assure you, in every area of
24 the law that is addressed by this legislation,
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1 it moves us forward. It moves us towards
2 transparency. It moves us towards disclosure.
3 It moves us towards a system of enforcement
4 that the people of the State of New York will
5 respect.
6 You want to know why we're losing
7 their respect? Not because there are
8 individual bad actors here, but because we
9 have for too long tolerated a system which
10 enables us, authorizes us and allows us under
11 law to engage in conduct which the people of
12 the State of New York recognize is
13 unacceptable.
14 We've got to end the culture of
15 pay-to-play. We've got to end the perception
16 and the reality that people are able to
17 influence members of the government -- not
18 just the Legislature, but members of the
19 executive branch as well.
20 Today we take a step towards doing
21 that. This bill begins the process of lifting
22 that fog. This bill I hope is the death knell
23 of the pay-to-play culture. I hope everyone
24 will join in voting for this. I know there
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1 are some amendments that my understanding is
2 aren't actually intended to weaken the bill
3 but in some respects, perhaps, to alter it.
4 And I know that there are some objections,
5 although I must say I'm pleased to report that
6 on both sides of the aisle, where I've talked
7 to dozens of my colleagues, my sense is that
8 most people's criticism is that this bill
9 doesn't go far enough in certain areas.
10 I'm pleased by the fact that some
11 of my colleagues on the other side of the
12 aisle have spoken to me about this, come
13 forward with ideas. Senator Saland in
14 particular spotted something that, quite
15 frankly, we had missed. Senator Flanagan came
16 forward with a suggestion to make the bill
17 more equitable, which I appreciate, and we're
18 working on.
19 Yes, you came forward as well, but
20 I know you'll speak for yourself,
21 Senator Diaz.
22 I do not think this is a partisan
23 matter, ladies and gentlemen. This is an
24 institutional matter. We have to restore
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1 public confidence. We have to get rid of this
2 fog. We have to step up and recognize that
3 the culture which allows people to contribute
4 money or allows businesses to pay legislators
5 while they're still seeking to engage in
6 business with the state has to end.
7 Today we start the process of
8 ending that, Mr. President. I urge everyone
9 to vote yes on this bill.
10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President,
11 are there amendments at the desk?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
13 Senator Padavan, why do you rise?
14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Are there
15 amendments at the desk, Mr. President?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
17 Senator Padavan, your amendment is here at the
18 desk. Without objection --
19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, would you
20 please call on Senator DeFrancisco for his
21 amendments.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
23 Certainly.
24 Senator DeFrancisco.
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1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes,
2 there's an amendment at the desk and I'd waive
3 its reading.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
5 Senator DeFrancisco, there is an amendment at
6 the desk. And without objection, the reading
7 is waived and you may speak on the amendment.
8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator
9 Schneiderman indicated in no uncertain terms
10 that he believes the most important part of
11 this bill is the campaign finance law reform,
12 and gave the reasons for that. And he
13 indicated that we must restore confidence in
14 the public as to how campaign finance law
15 works and how people in the Legislature work
16 under it.
17 And he pointed out that one of the
18 most important aspects of the unit or of the
19 change is an enforcement unit. Now the
20 enforcement can be done. And he emphasized
21 that it's so important that we stop the
22 partisan gridlock.
23 Well, I'm going to help him do that
24 by this modification, because it's got to be
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1 an oversight. The modification deals with the
2 enforcement counsel who is given the authority
3 to actually commence proceedings under the
4 alleged violations under the Election Law.
5 And it takes actually three out of the four
6 commission members to stop those proceedings.
7 But the enforcement counsel can start them.
8 The enforcement counsel is not
9 elected by anybody, it's appointed. And the
10 enforcement counsel since the '70s has always
11 been a member of the Democrat Party.
12 Now, it would be just as offensive,
13 if we're trying to reform the system, if that
14 person was a member of the Republican Party.
15 The fact is one party has the person that's in
16 charge of starting the process that could only
17 be stopped by three out of four commission
18 members.
19 Not only that, that person has a
20 four-year term. And that four-year term, when
21 that person is done after the four-year term,
22 the person can be either reappointed or
23 reappointed by the same persons who appointed
24 that person in the first place, which are the
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1 Democrat commissioners.
2 Now, if we're really and truly
3 talking about true reform, a bill like this,
4 where there's enforcement authority, depends
5 upon the fairness of the enforcement. And I
6 don't know Liz Hogan from anybody. I've never
7 met her. But she's been in that position for
8 some time. Not casting any aspersions on her.
9 But if we want the public to feel
10 confident that there's not partisan gridlock
11 and one party isn't controlling the
12 enforcement process, then we've got to change
13 that. And that's what this amendment would
14 do.
15 Instead of a four-year term for
16 that person who is the enforcement counsel, it
17 would be a two-year term and it would
18 alternate between the enforcement counsel and
19 the deputy, who would be of the other party.
20 So that every two years, the person who's in
21 charge of enforcing the law and bringing
22 charges that could only be stopped by three of
23 the four members of the commission is of a
24 different party.
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1 Now, that seems logical. It
2 follows exactly the parameters that Senator
3 Schneiderman talked about, bipartisan, no
4 partisan gridlock. And it will restore faith
5 that the process is a fair process for both
6 parties.
7 And for those reasons, I offer this
8 amendment and I urge my colleagues to support
9 it.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Are
11 there any other Senators wishing to be heard
12 on the amendment?
13 (No response.)
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Then
15 the question is on the nonsponsor motion to
16 amend Calendar Number 18.
17 Those Senators voting in support of
18 the nonsponsor amendment please raise your
19 hands.
20 Announce the results.
21 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in
22 the affirmative are Senators Alesi, Bonacic,
23 DeFrancisco, Farley, Flanagan, Fuschillo,
24 Golden, Griffo, Hannon, O. Johnson, Lanza,
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1 Larkin, Leibell, Little, Marcellino, Maziarz,
2 McDonald, Nozzolio, Padavan, Ranzenhofer,
3 Robach, Saland, Seward, Skelos, Volker, Winner
4 and Young.
5 Ayes, 27. Nays, 32.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The
7 motion fails.
8 SENATOR PADAVAN: Is there a
9 second amendment at the desk, Mr. President?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Yes,
11 Senator Padavan.
12 Senator DeFrancisco, there is a
13 second amendment at the desk. Without
14 objection, the reading is waived and you may
15 speak on the amendment.
16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Thank you.
17 Anticipating that there really
18 wasn't a strong desire on the other side of
19 the aisle to make this a bipartisan
20 enforcement process, I figured that maybe
21 there would be another way to at least have
22 some modicum of fairness in the process of who
23 determines what charges are going to be
24 brought and who prosecutes those charges.
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1 And what this bill basically does
2 is it eliminates the enforcement officer --
3 who is a Democrat, has been a Democrat, will
4 always be a Democrat under the current
5 statute -- from pursuing charges against
6 possibly, in close election years, Republicans
7 more than Democrats, just possibly.
8 To have some modicum of fairness,
9 this says eliminate that enforcement officer
10 and make it an elected official, the Attorney
11 General. Who for the time being happens to be
12 a Democrat and will be a Democrat between now
13 and the next election.
14 The fact of the matter is at least
15 the person who's going to be enforcing these
16 so-called bipartisan rules will be someone
17 elected by the people. And it could be a
18 Republican, it could be a Democrat, it could
19 be usually a Democrat. But at least there's
20 some modicum of fairness.
21 So that's what this amendment does.
22 And I would urge each of my colleagues to
23 provide some fairness in the enforcement
24 process so we are not accused of reforming
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1 something so that it is truly partisan in how
2 the enforcement is determined.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Are
4 there any other Senators wishing to be heard
5 on the amendment?
6 (No response.)
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The
8 question then is on the nonsponsor motion to
9 amend Calendar Number 18.
10 Those Senators voting in support of
11 the nonsponsor amendment please raise your
12 hands.
13 Announce the results.
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 27. Nays,
15 32.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The
17 motion fails.
18 Senator Padavan, why do you rise?
19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President,
20 will you call up my amendment, please.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
22 Senator Padavan, your amendment is here at the
23 desk. Without objection, the reading is
24 waived and you may speak on the amendment.
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1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you,
2 Mr. President.
3 Today is a day we deal with
4 disclosure, we deal with transparency, we deal
5 with issues such as Senator Schneiderman
6 referred to as pay-to-play. But there's one
7 area that we totally ignore, and they fit the
8 bill in terms of the need for transparency,
9 the need for disclosure, and the preemptor of
10 pay-to-play. And they're called political
11 consultants.
12 These individuals and entities
13 currently, as far as the state is concerned,
14 do not have to disclose their clients or their
15 relationships, or in any way, shape or form
16 would any of the entities that we've created
17 in current law and which we have expanded upon
18 today.
19 And this amendment would do just
20 that. It's a bill that I introduced last
21 session and the year before. It patterns
22 something which is currently in effect,
23 believe it or not, in the City of New York --
24 and in the State of Texas and the City of
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1 San Francisco.
2 Now, to clarify some of the
3 insights into what we're trying to do here,
4 there was an interesting article, a very
5 lengthy one, written in the New York Times a
6 few years ago on this very subject. It's
7 entitled "First the Campaign, Then the
8 Lobbying." And I'd like to just read two
9 sentences from it because I think it's helpful
10 to understand what we're trying to achieve.
11 "'Helping elect someone and then
12 lobbying that official so clearly represents
13 the appearance of a conflict of interest that
14 will undermine public confidence in
15 government. The nexus between the lobbyist,
16 the government official, and the corporation
17 is a dangerous one, a kind of Iron Triangle,'
18 said Douglas Muzzio, a professor of public
19 policy at Baruch College. 'They are not only
20 influencing policy, which they are supposed to
21 do as a lobbyist, they are actually choosing
22 the government officials who will then turn
23 around and act on clients whose interests
24 these people are representing.'"
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1 Now, it just seems logical to me
2 that if we're going to require so much in the
3 way of public disclosure, that this group of
4 individuals and entities are totally outside
5 what we are seeking to achieve, at least at
6 the state level. And all we're doing is
7 simply asking them to disclose. It also, by
8 the way, provides for a code of conduct in the
9 exercise of their activity.
10 So, Mr. President, that in essence
11 is what this amendment does. It seems so
12 logical, so essential, and I think we all know
13 why it's so important.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
15 you, Senator Padavan.
16 Are there any other Senators
17 wishing to be heard on the amendment?
18 The question is on the nonsponsor
19 motion to amend Calendar 18. Those Senators
20 voting in support of the nonsponsor amendment
21 please raise your hands.
22 Announce the results.
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 27. Nays,
24 32.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The
2 motion fails.
3 We are now back on the main bill.
4 Senator Squadron, on the bill.
5 SENATOR SQUADRON: Thank you,
6 Mr. President. There's much to say --
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Excuse
8 me.
9 Senator Padavan.
10 SENATOR PADAVAN: I was simply
11 going to ask the sponsor to yield to a
12 question. But if you wish --
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: As
14 soon as Senator Squadron does not have the
15 floor, you may proceed, Senator Padavan.
16 Senator Squadron.
17 SENATOR SQUADRON: Thank you,
18 Mr. President.
19 There's much to say about the
20 things this bill doesn't do for reform. We
21 just saw some amendments presented, and a lot
22 of it's legitimate. But there's also a lot
23 about what this bill does do for reform. And
24 the truth is -- I think we all know it -- for
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1 years Albany hasn't done much to reform
2 itself. An ever-shifting set of arguments has
3 been used to prevent action, to kill reform in
4 a closed back room, or through the alluring
5 words of an empty press release.
6 Today is the beginning of actually
7 getting something done and passed into law --
8 not out of this house, not out of the other
9 house, not out of the second floor -- into
10 law. I hope we're not tripped up in this step
11 forward.
12 The arguments against passing the
13 bill are arguments against a step forward.
14 They are not arguments, as they may be guised
15 to be, to go farther. That's important.
16 That's not a reason to oppose this bill; it's
17 a reason to keep going after we pass this
18 bill.
19 Senator Schneiderman ably described
20 this bill and its need, and I appreciate that.
21 I appreciate Senator Sampson's and Senator
22 Krueger's and so many others fighting for this
23 issue for so long, well before I was here.
24 There's one piece of the bill I
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1 want to highlight very briefly that I think
2 may be a source of some of its opposition. In
3 addition to the disclosure and the enforcement
4 that Senator Schneiderman talked about, this
5 bill would significantly increase the
6 independence of ethics oversight for us in the
7 Legislature and legislative employees.
8 The new Legislative Office of
9 Ethics Investigation will have commissioners
10 serving for a fixed term, an appointed
11 executive director serving for a fixed term,
12 pursuing all complaints regardless of the
13 source. The commissioners and executive
14 director can't be legislators, they can't be
15 lobbyists, they can't work for the
16 Legislature. No majority of that commission
17 is controlled by either party or either house.
18 Finally, any findings of wrongdoing will be
19 made public from the LOEI.
20 But we can't just focus on the
21 Legislature. This bill also changes oversight
22 of the executive branch. Under this bill, we
23 cannot ignore that for the first time ever,
24 executive ethics will not be controlled by the
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1 Governor.
2 Under current law, as you know, a
3 majority of commissioners on the Commission on
4 Public Integrity are appointed by the
5 Governor. That Commission on Public Integrity
6 oversees lobbying in the executive branch. If
7 this bill doesn't pass into law, that will not
8 change. If this bill does pass into law, the
9 Governor, the Comptroller, the Attorney
10 General will all appoint the Executive Ethics
11 Commission. None of them, no individual will
12 control executive ethics.
13 Let's be honest. This bill is the
14 beginning and not the end of needed reform.
15 And even so, it is a difficult pill to swallow
16 for a lot of folks in this room, a lot of
17 folks in government, because it will affect
18 us. Those of us who are passing it and
19 hopefully signing it into law will have new
20 oversight on our behavior. It's true for the
21 Legislature, it's true for the Executive, it's
22 true for candidates for office.
23 And whatever disagreements we have
24 about how far we should go -- and a lot of us,
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1 including myself, would like to continue and
2 would like to keep going farther -- this bill
3 will start that process. Stopping this bill,
4 this bill's failure, will stop the process in
5 its tracks. And that's the reason that I hope
6 we pass it out of this house today and I hope
7 to see it signed into law as soon as possible.
8 Thank you, Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
10 you, Senator Squadron.
11 Senator Padavan.
12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Will Senator
13 Schneiderman yield for a question.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
15 Senator Schneiderman, will you yield for a
16 question from Senator Padavan?
17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes,
18 Mr. President, I will be happy to yield.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
20 Senator Padavan, you may proceed.
21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, you
22 touched on this briefly, but I wonder if you'd
23 amplify it by answering my question.
24 If currently you are a legislator
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1 filing your annual forms and disclosure forms
2 and so on, and you also are a contractor, a
3 consultant, a manufacturer, so on -- any one
4 of a number of different vocations or
5 professions -- you would have to list the
6 names of all your clients, am I correct?
7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: You have
8 to list -- there are two different areas of
9 disclosure that I discussed. One is the
10 disclosure by the members of the Legislature.
11 You have to list your sources of income. And
12 unless there is a particular privilege that
13 applies, as it does with doctors or lawyers --
14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, I'm going
15 to get to that, Senator. I'm talking about
16 someone like --
17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I have
18 to --
19 SENATOR PADAVAN: -- someone
20 like --
21 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I --
22 SENATOR PADAVAN: -- someone like
23 me, Senator.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
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1 Senator Padavan, please. Let Senator
2 Schneiderman finish his answer.
3 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I know
4 you're enthusiastic to hear me talk, but let
5 me just finish this sentence and we'll get to
6 the good stuff.
7 Unless a privilege applies, you
8 have to list the clients of a firm that pays
9 you. The idea here is that you can't just say
10 "I got a million dollars from XYZ
11 Consultants." In every case except those as
12 to which a privilege applies, you have to list
13 the clients of that firm as well.
14 There is also a provision, however,
15 that requires disclosure by the firms. If
16 anyone is doing business with the state
17 seeking to influence the Legislature, either
18 by being a lobbyist or employing a lobbyist,
19 whether it's privileged or not -- lawyer,
20 doctor, anyone -- they have to disclose that.
21 So we have two types of disclosure.
22 One is clients in general. But the second
23 and, to me, most significant part of this is
24 that anyone seeking to do business with the
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1 state or influence the Legislature has got to
2 disclose a financial relationship with a
3 legislator even if it is a lawyer. This gets
4 in the lawyers and doctors and ministers.
5 Anyone with a privilege, the client has to
6 waive that privilege if they're trying to do
7 business with the state.
8 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would the
9 Senator continue to yield.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
11 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to yield
12 to Senator Padavan?
13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes.
14 SENATOR PADAVAN: I understand
15 fully the issue of lobbyists; namely, if
16 there's a lobbyist involved, that disclosure
17 is required.
18 What I'm talking about and my
19 question related to those business
20 involvements -- clients, customers, whatever
21 you wish to call them -- where there is no
22 lobbyist involved. It's directly between the
23 legislator and the entity in question.
24 So therefore the answer to my
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1 question, if I heard you correctly, is yes,
2 they must list all their clients. Is that
3 correct?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
5 Senator Schneiderman.
6 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Except
7 that I'm not sure who "they" is. But yes --
8 SENATOR PADAVAN: "They" being a
9 legislator who deals directly with clients,
10 who do not have lobbyists, no lobbyists
11 involved. And that entity can be one of a
12 hundred different things. I described them
13 before: Manufacturing, management consulting,
14 all the way down the line.
15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes.
16 Through you, Mr. President, that does not mean
17 that everybody who buys a product from a
18 manufacturer has to be listed. All that means
19 is that if you are receiving payment from
20 someone, through an entity, through a
21 consulting entity, that now has to be
22 disclosed.
23 This is to deal with the problem
24 that has come up that was discussed earlier
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1 today, that there were questions that have
2 been raised and there have been some cases
3 that have come up recently with members of the
4 Legislature relating to consulting firms,
5 where essentially there was a loophole in the
6 current law that you have to list the fact
7 that I'm paid a million dollars by XYZ
8 Consultants, but you don't have to disclose
9 who's paying to XYZ Consultants.
10 That's what this gets at. Not the
11 fact that if you receive money from Wal-Mart,
12 you have to list everyone who's ever bought
13 anything at Wal-Mart. That's not what this
14 does.
15 SENATOR PADAVAN: I would presume
16 not.
17 And by the way, I think that's a
18 good idea.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
20 Senator Padavan, do you wish --
21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would he
22 continue to yield?
23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I continue
24 to yield.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You
2 may proceed, Senator Padavan.
3 SENATOR PADAVAN: You touched on
4 this in passing. If you were in a protected
5 class -- and that, I presume, includes
6 attorneys and individuals who do real estate
7 work or insurance work. I don't know what
8 other protected classes there are, but in
9 those categories -- you would not have to do
10 what you and I just agreed upon you do have to
11 do in every other case. Is that so?
12 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes.
13 Through you, Mr. President. Under this
14 bill -- and this is an issue that we've had a
15 lot of discussions about, certainly in our
16 conference. Some people feel that it doesn't
17 go far enough. But under this bill, as to
18 those professions for which there is a
19 privilege, you do not have to disclose the
20 identity of your clients or patients, as the
21 case may be.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
23 Senator Padavan.
24 SENATOR PADAVAN: Will you
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1 continue to yield?
2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will
3 continue to yield.
4 SENATOR PADAVAN: If you --
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Excuse
6 me, Senator Padavan. I think you understand
7 the process. I'm not trying to be difficult.
8 SENATOR PADAVAN: No, I thought I
9 heard him say yes.
10 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: No, but
11 through Mr. President. Yes, Mr. President, I
12 yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You
14 may proceed.
15 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm just trying
16 to get home earlier, Senator.
17 Senator, there are roughly, I
18 think, 211, 212 legislators here in the
19 Capitol. What percentage of them would you
20 think are either lawyers, insurance brokers,
21 any of the other protected -- real estate
22 agents, any of the other protected classes?
23 What percentage would you think that is,
24 roughly? I wouldn't hold you to an exact
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1 number.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
3 Senator Schneiderman.
4 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I have no
5 idea.
6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would you say a
7 third?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
9 Senator Padavan --
10 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
11 you, Mr. President, no, I wouldn't say a
12 third. I have no idea.
13 SENATOR PADAVAN: All right.
14 Well, thank you, Senator. You've been very
15 kind.
16 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
17 Senator.
18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Just briefly,
19 Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
21 Senator Padavan on the bill.
22 SENATOR PADAVAN: This dialogue
23 obviously has been a subject of a lot of
24 public dialogue on the very issue.
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1 And I would take a guess that
2 probably if you added up all of the categories
3 that are in the protected class, you're
4 talking about roughly one-fourth to one-third
5 of the total number of legislators here in the
6 Capitol.
7 And while I have no feeling at all
8 that any of them would or are doing anything
9 that is untold, the fact remains that we
10 shouldn't have two classes of citizens here.
11 There should not be one group who might be in
12 a whole score of other kinds of activities,
13 have clients who do business with the state
14 and they have to disclose it, income from
15 these clients and whatever the case may be,
16 and then another class where that's just
17 simply not the case.
18 I don't think that engenders public
19 confidence to the degree that I believe the
20 sponsors all intend to do. And that is -- you
21 know, I hear frequently the comment that this
22 is a beginning and we have more to do and all
23 of that --
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
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1 Senator Duane, why do you rise?
2 SENATOR DUANE: I'm wondering if
3 the Senator would yield for a moment.
4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Sure.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
6 Senator Padavan, will you yield?
7 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes, certainly.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
9 Senator Duane.
10 SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President,
11 I'm curious as to whether or not in the
12 assertion of not wanting two classes of
13 people, if that also includes those who are
14 able to be married or not.
15 SENATOR PADAVAN: I don't know if
16 that's a -- I don't know the answer to that
17 question. I don't know if they're in a
18 protected class or not. Ask the sponsor.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
20 Senator Duane.
21 SENATOR DUANE: Even though it
22 wasn't through you, Mr. President, thank you.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: I
24 accept it. Thank you, Senator Duane.
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1 SENATOR PADAVAN: All right,
2 thank you. Getting back to what I was saying,
3 with all due respect to the intentions of the
4 sponsors of this legislation -- and I intend
5 to vote for it. And as a matter of public
6 disclosure, I don't have any businesses, I'm a
7 full-time legislator, I don't have any firm or
8 whatever. So my question is purely academic,
9 in case you were wondering.
10 But the fact remains it's still a
11 valid question. And I would hope that as time
12 evolves and as the public weighs in and finds
13 out what we've done today, that perhaps we'll
14 move in a direction that will provide a more
15 even playing field, a more total environment
16 in terms of disclosure and reporting.
17 Thank you, Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
19 you, Senator Padavan.
20 Senator Bonacic.
21 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you,
22 Mr. Chairman. Will the sponsor answer a few
23 questions for me?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
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1 Senator Schneiderman, will you yield to
2 Senator Bonacic for questions?
3 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will be
4 happy to yield to Senator Bonacic, who has
5 long toiled in the vineyards of reform.
6 SENATOR BONACIC: Senator
7 Schneiderman, let me first thank you for
8 advancing the ethics legislation. That will
9 probably be the last compliment I will give
10 you as we have this dialogue.
11 My first question to you, let's
12 assume that this legislation becomes law and
13 that Senator Bruno was still the majority
14 leader. Under the old law, we know what had
15 to be done. But under the new law, how would
16 it have affected him?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
18 Senator Schneiderman.
19 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well,
20 through you, Mr. President, I'm really not
21 sure how it would have affected Senator Bruno.
22 I am not intimately familiar with the facts of
23 his case.
24 There certainly are restrictions in
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1 this law, and certainly the clarification of
2 the existing law that was provided in Senator
3 Squadron's bill that may have intercepted
4 conduct at an earlier stage.
5 I do know that if you have a
6 disclosure form and you can't just list that
7 you make money from a consulting firm but you
8 have to list the clients of the consulting
9 firm, that might have provided disclosure that
10 may have caused things to take a different
11 course.
12 But I can't say specifically how
13 this would have affected the course of events
14 surrounding Senator Bruno.
15 SENATOR BONACIC: Will Senator
16 Schneiderman continue to yield?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Will
18 you continue to yield, Senator Schneiderman?
19 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
20 you, Mr. President, I'm happy to.
21 SENATOR BONACIC: Under the
22 question I asked, there probably would have
23 been more disclosure requirements for a
24 consulting business, whether it be Assemblyman
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1 Seminerio or the former majority leader,
2 Senator Bruno. Would you agree to that?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
4 Senator Schneiderman.
5 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes,
6 through you, Mr. President, this legislation
7 would provide substantially more disclosure,
8 both disclosure by the legislator but also
9 disclosure by any firm doing business with the
10 state on their reports to the Lobbying
11 Commission.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
13 Senator Bonacic.
14 SENATOR BONACIC: Would you
15 continue to yield, Mr. Schneiderman?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Do you
17 continue to yield, Senator Schneiderman?
18 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
19 you, Mr. President, I'd be happy to.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You
21 may proceed.
22 SENATOR BONACIC: Now I'm going
23 to ask that same question with respect to
24 Assemblyman Silver. Under the old reporting
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1 requirements and now under the new reporting
2 requirements, if this is to become law, is
3 there any increased burden in disclosure with
4 respect to the Speaker of the other house?
5 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Again,
6 through you, Mr. President, I'm not sure at
7 present what Speaker Silver's employment
8 status is.
9 I will tell you that if he derives
10 a financial benefit, either that he is hired
11 by or shares in the profits of a firm, for
12 anyone that seeks to do business of any kind
13 with the state, under this bill that would now
14 have to be disclosed. I don't know -- I'm not
15 sure what his status is with his firm, so I
16 can't really go beyond that.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
18 Senator Bonacic.
19 SENATOR BONACIC: Would you
20 continue to yield?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Do you
22 continue to yield, Senator?
23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I would
24 continue to yield.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You
2 may proceed.
3 SENATOR BONACIC: Is there
4 anything in the new legislation if it passes,
5 in this bill, that would require disclosure of
6 clients of that firm with respect to the
7 Speaker of the other house?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
9 Senator Schneiderman.
10 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes.
11 Through you, Mr. President. Again, to me, the
12 most important thing in the area of ethics and
13 disclosure that this bill does is require that
14 if I'm a lawyer and someone who is seeking to
15 do business with the State of New York, a
16 company or an individual, retains me to do any
17 work or retains a firm whose profits I share
18 in, that has to be disclosed.
19 So this is to say that if someone
20 retains me or Speaker Silver or anyone else to
21 represent them in a slip-and-fall case in a
22 hotel -- it has nothing to do with the
23 state -- that relationship does not have to be
24 disclosed. And to me, those are not the most
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1 significant things that we're missing here.
2 If any company or individual that
3 does business with the state retains me for
4 any purpose, even if they're not retaining me
5 in connection with their business with the
6 state, that has to be disclosed. So that
7 would affect all the lawyers here, including
8 the Speaker.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
10 Senator Bonacic.
11 SENATOR BONACIC: Senator
12 Schneiderman, would you continue to yield?
13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will
14 continue to yield, Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
16 Senator Schneiderman will continue to yield.
17 SENATOR BONACIC: I guess I
18 understand your answer with respect to the
19 Speaker, but how about the clients of the
20 Speaker, having them have to disclose their
21 relationship?
22 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes.
23 Through you, Mr. President, I think that's
24 what I just said. That there will have to be
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1 disclosure -- an attorney cannot waive a
2 privilege for a client, but the clients are
3 required under this bill to waive a privilege
4 if they're doing business with the state and
5 disclose that interest. Even if they are
6 retaining a lawyer -- legislator-lawyer -- for
7 some business other than their business with
8 the state.
9 So any relationship that could
10 possibly be construed as pay-to-play -- the
11 intention of this bill, at any rate, is to
12 have disclosure of any relationship that could
13 possibly be construed to as pay-to-play,
14 whether it's a doctor or a lawyer or a
15 minister or anyone else subject to privilege.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
17 Senator Bonacic.
18 SENATOR BONACIC: Mr.
19 Schneiderman, will you continue to yield?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Do you
21 continue to yield, Senator Schneiderman?
22 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
23 you, Mr. President, I will yield to
24 Mr. Bonacic.
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1 SENATOR BONACIC: Okay. As you
2 recall, in the Codes Committee we had concerns
3 about an attended event of more than 25 people
4 with a threshold of $10. And I have a series
5 of questions that many of the members on both
6 sides of the aisle participate in these
7 events, and I thought the language in the
8 legislation was vague. So for the spirit of
9 the legislation, I'm asking you to clarify.
10 And I'm going to give you four examples that
11 we all experience in attending events. Okay?
12 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
13 you, Mr. President, I am happy to participate
14 in this multiple-choice exam.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: And
16 you may proceed, Senator Bonacic.
17 SENATOR BONACIC: I'm trying to
18 get at the legislative intent.
19 An elected official, Assemblyman or
20 a Senator, gets invited to a firefighters'
21 dinner, and the meal and the soda is $25. And
22 there's no ceremonial acts. That fire company
23 has a lobbyist. They may ask him, you know,
24 help us out with equipment or some other
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1 firematics need. In your mind, is that a
2 violation of the language in this legislation
3 for our officials?
4 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
5 you, Mr. President, we did discuss this
6 before. That should not be a problem.
7 And let me just point out that this
8 is on page 11 of the proposed legislation,
9 starting at line 41. It's a section that's
10 called "Complimentary attendance: Food and
11 bench offered by the sponsor of an event."
12 And the issue here is really how to ensure
13 that no one is being, as the expression goes,
14 wined and dined to influence themselves.
15 You would not have a problem with a
16 dinner by a fire company or any other
17 organization if it meets any of these
18 requirements: If it is a charitable function,
19 which most of these are; if it is something
20 that is a widely attended event where 25 or
21 more people have been invited to the event,
22 which is true in most of these situations; or
23 if you're consuming less than $10 worth of
24 goodies.
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1 The point of this is not to prevent
2 any of us from going to the events we attend
3 all the time in our districts. Charitable
4 organizations that you go to, fine. Widely
5 attended events, fine. And even if you go to
6 an event that's just a few people that's being
7 done for business purposes, as long as you
8 don't take more than $10 worth of food or
9 other goods, fine.
10 So the intention here is certainly
11 not to stop any legislator from going about
12 their business and going to these public
13 events. And I think that we have covered all
14 of that with this whole list of exceptions to
15 the prohibition.
16 SENATOR BONACIC: Okay. Thank
17 you, Mr. Schneiderman. Will you continue to
18 yield?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Do you
20 continue to yield, Senator Schneiderman?
21 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Mr.
22 President, I'll continue to yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
24 Senator Saland, why do you rise?
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1 SENATOR SALAND: I realize that
2 Senator Schneiderman has yielded to Senator
3 Bonacic. But before this exchange goes any
4 further, I would wonder if Senator Bonacic and
5 Senator Schneiderman might permit me to ask
6 Senator Schneiderman to yield, if that's
7 permitted under the rules.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: It
9 would be up to Senator Bonacic, Senator
10 Saland. He has the floor.
11 SENATOR BONACIC: Of course. To
12 Senator Saland, sure.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
14 Senator Saland, you may -- would you yield to
15 Senator Saland, Senator Schneiderman? Senator
16 Schneiderman, would you yield to Senator
17 Saland?
18 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. To
19 Senator Saland, yes. Yes.
20 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you,
21 Senator Schneiderman.
22 I heard you make reference to this
23 attendance being okay if in fact there was a
24 $10 cap. I'm looking at page 11, and I'm not
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1 starting at line 41, I'm starting at line 37.
2 And line 37 reads: "The following are
3 excluded from the definition of a gift."
4 Nowhere between line 37 and line 54 is there
5 any mention of any amount.
6 In single (i) it says complimentary
7 attendance, including food and beverage, at a
8 bona fide charitable and political event. And
9 the rest of the language in the existing law
10 is omitted. Again, it says nothing about the
11 $10 limitation. And if you go to (ii), if you
12 read that language, it says nothing about a
13 $10 limitation.
14 So my question to you is, if you're
15 invited to a charitable event -- let's assume
16 the XYZ hospital in your district invites you,
17 and you're there as their guest and the price
18 of a ticket is $100. Under this section, is
19 that a permitted event if it's a widely
20 attended event and nothing in here makes any
21 reference --
22 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. Yes.
23 Through you, Mr. President, Senator Saland is
24 absolutely correct.
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1 As I tried to explain in my
2 discourse with Senator Bonacic, these are
3 series of exceptions. The $10 limitation is
4 at the next page, the bottom of page 12.
5 But if you are going for a
6 charitable function in connection with your
7 services as a Senator or performing ceremonial
8 duties or if it is a widely attended event,
9 the $10 limit is not required. That is a
10 separate exception to the prohibition.
11 So Senator Saland is correct.
12 That's on the next page, on page 12, at the
13 bottom.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
15 you very much, Senator Saland.
16 Senator Bonacic, you may proceed.
17 SENATOR BONACIC: Back to Senator
18 Schneiderman.
19 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Senator
20 Bonacic, I missed you.
21 SENATOR BONACIC: When I spoke of
22 that firefighters' event, it may not be
23 charitable and it may not be political. And
24 they do have a lobbyist. So I just don't want
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1 to get caught with your rules where a lobbyist
2 is involved and it doesn't fall into the
3 categories of political or charitable and they
4 do ask you as Senator to help them with
5 firefighter needs. In your mind, is that a
6 violation?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
8 Senator Schneiderman.
9 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
10 you, Mr. President. Again, this is a list --
11 we're talking about a prohibition against
12 accepting a benefit. There are a long list of
13 exceptions to the prohibition. One of the
14 prohibitions has to do with a charitable
15 event. Another has to do with consuming $10
16 or less of food or drink. But the most common
17 is that if this is a widely attended event --
18 which certainly in my district virtually all
19 of these are events where 25 or more people
20 are invited.
21 If you meet any of these -- and
22 again, in my district, most of these we're
23 talking about not-for-profit organizations,
24 and a lot of these events are in fact within
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1 the definition of charitable events. So if
2 you meet any of these exceptions, you are not
3 subject to the prohibition.
4 And I cannot imagine an event,
5 unless you have an extraordinarily fancy
6 for-profit fire company that is wining and
7 dining you in a very small room with only a
8 few people, I can't imagine the circumstances
9 where the dinner with the firefighters would
10 possibly not meet one of these exceptions.
11 SENATOR BONACIC: Okay. Would
12 you continue to yield?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Do you
14 continue to yield to Senator Bonacic?
15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
16 you, Mr. President, yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You
18 may proceed.
19 SENATOR BONACIC: Another
20 example. We in our districts are invited to
21 meet with school superintendents. And it's
22 probably 8 to 15 of them, depending on how
23 many school districts you have in that
24 particular county. And they serve you lunch,
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1 and the value of the lunch may be $15. And
2 they have a lobbyist. In your mind, is that a
3 violation for an elected official?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
5 Senator Schneiderman.
6 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
7 you, Mr. President. Again -- and let me cite
8 you to page 12, line 51. Another aspect of
9 this is an exclusion of meals and refreshments
10 from participating in a professional or
11 educational program and the meals or
12 refreshments are provided to all participants.
13 So again, I'm not sure what the
14 circumstances are here. But it's hard for me
15 to see how would not fit within one of these
16 exceptions. Certainly it is not the intention
17 of this bill to prevent you from meeting with
18 local school superintendents.
19 Again, there's even a broader,
20 blanket exception that covers something that
21 would enable you, if you have any question
22 about this, to question the Ethics Oversight
23 Board to determine there was any question
24 about it. And the standard there is that if
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1 this event is related to your duties or
2 responsibilities as determined by the Ethics
3 Oversight Board.
4 Again, meeting with people in your
5 district to get their input on what you're
6 doing is not what this is designed to prevent.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
8 Senator Bonacic.
9 SENATOR BONACIC: Would you
10 continue to yield?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Will
12 you continue to yield, Senator Schneiderman?
13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will
14 continue to yield, Mr. President.
15 SENATOR BONACIC: The same
16 question, but now I've been invited for five
17 hospitals and their CEOs. And now there's
18 only five of them there, and they treat us to
19 lunch that's worth $20. And obviously,
20 whether it's the superintendents, whether it's
21 the hospitals, they want to know how they're
22 going to be affected on budget, what we can
23 do, help with member items, capital funds.
24 Is that a violation? And they have
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1 a lobbyist.
2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well,
3 through you, Mr. President. If you are the
4 only Senator invited and five hospital CEOs
5 take you out for a fancy meal and talk to you
6 about healthcare cuts in the state budget,
7 that could be a violation, yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
9 Senator Bonacic.
10 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: If it's a
11 widely attended event and they're inviting
12 lots of people, no.
13 And I assure you, I have much
14 fancier hospitals and CEOs in my district than
15 you probably do in yours, and they have their
16 own dining rooms. But if they invite me up
17 there to influence me and I accept that, that
18 could be a violation.
19 If it's a generally attended event,
20 a charitable function, I consume less than
21 $10, or any of these other exceptions, it's
22 not a problem.
23 SENATOR BONACIC: Senator
24 Schneiderman, will you continue to yield?
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1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
2 you, Mr. President, I'm happy to yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
4 Senator Schneiderman continues to yield.
5 SENATOR BONACIC: In most of
6 these districts, both Assembly and Senate
7 outside New York City, there's a great
8 geographical area and there's multiple events,
9 sometimes at the same time, and we have a to
10 send a representative on our behalf.
11 Now, let's assume it's not a
12 well-attended event and the cost of the meal
13 is in excess of $10. Who is in violation?
14 Question number one. Is it the representative
15 that sends -- you know, the elected official
16 that sends the rep, or is the representative
17 in violation?
18 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well,
19 through you, Mr. President, these rules apply
20 to elected officials. But it does extend to
21 the staff. It's not something that would --
22 the staff member would not be incurring a
23 penalty; we would.
24 SENATOR BONACIC: Okay, let me
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1 make sure I -- Mr. Schneiderman, would you
2 continue to yield?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
4 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to
5 yield?
6 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
7 you, Mr. President, I continue to yield.
8 SENATOR BONACIC: So there would
9 never be a violation against that elected
10 official's rep. And are you saying that it is
11 also not a violation against the elected
12 official in that case?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
14 Senator Schneiderman.
15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well,
16 through you, Mr. President, it's the same set
17 of rules we've been discussing. If the staff
18 member goes to dinner with a small group of
19 people who take him to a hundred-dollar meal
20 and talk to him about -- and essentially are
21 lobbying him, that could be a violation, that
22 person acting on behalf of me or you or
23 another legislator. It depends on the
24 specific circumstances.
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1 Again, if it is a charitable
2 function, a widely attended event, any of the
3 other exceptions we've discussed, no
4 violation.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
6 Senator Bonacic.
7 SENATOR BONACIC: Would you
8 continue to yield, Mr. Schneiderman?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
10 Senator Schneiderman.
11 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will,
12 through you, Mr. President.
13 SENATOR BONACIC: We have events
14 in Albany all the time. And my first question
15 is we have constituents at a reception, and
16 the cost of that sponsor putting on that
17 reception is more than $10, whoever would walk
18 in, if they wanted to partake of a buffet or a
19 drink.
20 If an elected official goes to that
21 reception and shakes the hands of the
22 constituents who wanted to visit with them,
23 doesn't eat or drink anything, is that a
24 violation of this legislation?
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
2 Senator Schneiderman.
3 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
4 you, Mr. President, no.
5 Again, I would urge the Senator
6 that the same set of rules that we've
7 discussed apply. Widely attended events --
8 and most of these events, 25 people are
9 invited. This only requires invitation, not
10 that they show up. Consumption of food or
11 drink less than $10.
12 Again, the purpose here is to
13 ensure that improper influence is not brought
14 to bear. There are situations, frankly, in
15 which you're just better off buying your own
16 lunch. And we're not saying that there aren't
17 situations where it's not better to err on the
18 side of declining to accept benefits.
19 But general run-of-the-mill events
20 where you're meeting constituents and the
21 purpose is to meet constituents, not to meet
22 with people who are attempting to influence
23 you as a legislator through providing you with
24 some benefit, that's not the intention of this
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1 bill.
2 SENATOR BONACIC: Okay. Would
3 you continue to yield, Mr. Schneiderman?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
5 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to yield
6 to Senator Bonacic?
7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will
8 continue to yield, Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You
10 may proceed.
11 SENATOR BONACIC: Senator
12 Schneiderman, you know, I remember that -- and
13 I don't know what they call the school
14 numbers, but it's the School for the Deaf, and
15 they hold a reception here. I think it's a
16 breakfast or a lunch buffet. And they don't
17 have 25 people when they come up here, they
18 might have six, and the value of that
19 breakfast or brunch is more than $10. And
20 they have a lobbyist, which is under the NYSUT
21 umbrella.
22 Is that a violation for the elected
23 official to go to?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
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1 Senator Schneiderman.
2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Again,
3 through you, Mr. President, the issue is not
4 how many of them there are, but how many
5 people are invited. If they're inviting
6 members of the Legislature generally, it's not
7 a problem.
8 Again, let me just -- perhaps I can
9 shorten the time span, because the day is late
10 and people have events to attend to back in
11 their districts.
12 The goal here is to say we don't
13 want to interfere with anyone's practice of
14 their duties as a Senator. If you go to an
15 event with a lot of people, you're going to a
16 charitable event, that's fine.
17 But quite frankly, the public is
18 not concerned about that. The public is
19 concerned about the fact that there are
20 occasions in which people are out individually
21 with lobbyists, with people who employ
22 lobbyists who are trying to influence the
23 government, and that we want to make it
24 absolutely clear that in those situations,
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1 frankly, you just should buy your own lunch.
2 General events where you're meeting
3 constituents -- firefighters, people who are
4 coming with groups, inviting lots of us to
5 events -- not covered, not a problem.
6 But there is an issue that has come
7 up and that the public has raised that
8 requires us, however many exceptions we
9 create, to draw the line somewhere and say
10 that if you are receiving a substantial
11 benefit in a situation in which you can
12 reasonably construe that there's a specific
13 intent to influence just you and your vote,
14 that is now prohibited under the ethics rules.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
16 Senator Bonacic.
17 SENATOR BONACIC: Senator
18 Schneiderman, thank you for your patience.
19 On the bill.
20 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
22 Senator Bonacic, on the bill.
23 SENATOR BONACIC: First of all, I
24 think that we're tackling the issue of ethics
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1 is a good thing. And I guess we all agree
2 this is a very small step and much more has to
3 be done.
4 I'll tell you what's disturbing to
5 me with respect to how we got here today. We
6 spent a year last year, the Temporary
7 Commission on Reform, and -- on Rules and
8 Administration Reform -- and we had public
9 hearings and we had all of the good government
10 groups in. And we said, How can we make our
11 process better?
12 And what they said -- they said
13 many things. But the one thing that stood out
14 by all the groups -- Common Cause, the Brennan
15 Center, the League of Women Voters, NYPIRG --
16 you need a stronger committee system. Your
17 committee system is going to become the filter
18 on which to debate, question, have public
19 hearings, bring experts in, before a bill will
20 get voted out on the floor.
21 And I have to tell you -- and it
22 was six Democrats and three Republicans. And
23 you know what? That committee did good work,
24 because there was a good-faith effort by those
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1 members to improve the system. And we put
2 those rules in place, to your credit and our
3 credit.
4 Now, we had a Codes meeting at
5 11:30 yesterday during the Governor's State of
6 the State budget. There are 17 members on the
7 Codes Committee. Five were there. Because
8 they had to make decision, should I blow off
9 the State of the State or should I go to Codes
10 for what I consider very serious
11 legislation -- and complicated. I mean, you
12 read this over and over again to try to
13 extract what's in here to do the right thing.
14 And there were 12 members missing from the
15 Codes Committee.
16 Now, I thought that was
17 disrespectful to the Governor, it was
18 disrespectful to the other members of the
19 Codes Committee. Because I look forward to
20 their input and interaction on this
21 legislation.
22 And we probably could have had a
23 petition for a public hearing. This would
24 have been the right way to do it out of the
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1 new rules. And I happen to be here 20 years
2 in the Assembly and Senate. I've served under
3 three governors. I have never seen a
4 committee meeting held during a State of the
5 State of a governor's budget. So that was not
6 done right, that's point number one.
7 Now, in terms of the legislation
8 itself, I don't believe it was done in a
9 bipartisan manner. We tried to make it --
10 work together on it, but it was your baby. It
11 was the Democrat's baby. They wanted to get
12 an ethics bill out there.
13 And, you know, I'm one of those
14 people that feel if you're ethically
15 challenged, if you tend to be corrupt -- I
16 don't care what legislation you pass, you're
17 not going to root out those people that are
18 ethically challenged or corrupt. Okay?
19 Now, let me say, in conclusion,
20 this bill has been criticized by the Brennan
21 Institute, by Common Cause, by Governor
22 Paterson. There are big legal loopholes in
23 this legislation. And as we know, to the
24 credit of the members here, member empowerment
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1 is what makes government more transparent and
2 does away with the pay-to-play culture. Not
3 in the other house, where the Speaker decides
4 everything. A bill never gets to the floor if
5 he doesn't want it.
6 But in this house, to your credit,
7 our credit, 38 members can get a bill to the
8 floor and have it debated, regardless of the
9 money of special interests. That's a tribute
10 to you.
11 And I happen to think most of you,
12 mostly all of you are not dysfunctional, are
13 not corrupt, and are generally honest. And
14 we've all been painted with this brush.
15 So we do -- and, you know, when you
16 read the newspaper articles, they say this
17 reform bill is a joke, it's window dressing
18 for the elections. And, you know, it's
19 demeaning. It's demeaning to do something
20 that makes everybody proud. All right?
21 And I will end this by saying we're
22 all going to vote for this, because in today's
23 day and age, if -- if -- one step back.
24 I just want to talk about the
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1 potential for prosecutorial abuse. That is
2 disturbing here, with the enforcement officer
3 being a Democrat forever. That is very
4 disturbing. And in an age of instant
5 Internet, where they could not only make
6 Republicans target, you have enemies within
7 your own party that want to stain you, it
8 could be done in 24 hours if you have an
9 aggressive enforcer that's partisan, that
10 wants to hurt you. And you won't know what
11 hit you, because in 24 hours everything will
12 be leaked.
13 And this is supposed to be
14 confidential, a lot of this stuff with the
15 Board of Elections. And if there's a whisper
16 to the press, it says you will take
17 appropriate action. What does that mean?
18 There should be criminal sanctions if someone
19 wants to abuse this office to stain people.
20 So I have a real problem with this.
21 I think the Governor is against this bill
22 because he says it doesn't go far enough. And
23 I'm disappointed that we allowed this huge
24 legal loophole in the Assembly with attorneys
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1 and clients. We shouldn't have done that.
2 We could have done this much better
3 had we worked together, because you do have
4 good people here that want to do the right
5 thing, that want to root out corruption and do
6 good ethics. And the bad actors, the public
7 will eventually catch up to them and they'll
8 be gone.
9 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
11 you, Senator Bonacic.
12 Senator Diaz.
13 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you,
14 Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: On the
16 bill, Senator Diaz.
17 SENATOR DIAZ: On the bill.
18 Today, ladies and gentlemen, damas
19 y caballeros, we are here finally making
20 believe that we are dealing with ethics. We
21 got here in response to those editorial
22 boards -- Times Union, New York Post, Daily
23 News, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera -- El
24 Diario La Prensa, et cetera, et cetera,
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1 et cetera. Mr. President and ladies and
2 gentlemen, they have been pounding us day and
3 night to come up with something credible,
4 something that will end wrong appearance and
5 that give transparency and full disclosure.
6 And today we are presenting a bill
7 here. Senator Schneiderman said the game is
8 over. Senator Squadron said this is a very
9 difficult bill to swallow by many in this
10 room.
11 So, ladies and gentlemen, if we are
12 going to deal with this and end all the
13 criticism by the editorial boards, we should
14 bring a bill that gives transparency and that
15 makes us fully disclose everything. Not to do
16 that is a mockery. Not to do that is a joke.
17 Not to do that is a farce.
18 And, ladies and gentlemen, damas y
19 caballeros, this bill that we are presenting
20 today is creating what we call a privileged
21 class: doctors, lawyers, and clergies. We
22 are in a privileged class that we are
23 protected from disclosing certain clients.
24 And I'm saying I'm a clergy, and I
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1 don't want to be in a privileged class. I
2 don't want to be part of this. I have no
3 problem with the whole world knowing who my
4 clients are. I have a problem telling the
5 people what is the context of the conversation
6 that I have with my client. But I don't have
7 a problem letting the whole world know who is
8 my client and who I'm talking to.
9 So why create a privileged class?
10 By the way, the majority of the criticism that
11 we have is because lawyers don't fully
12 disclose their clients. But we are protecting
13 lawyers here.
14 So if we're going to have
15 transparency, if we are going to have full
16 disclosure, let's have a bill that calls on
17 everyone -- lawyers, doctors, ministers,
18 everyone that wants to be part of this body --
19 to fully disclose everything. If you don't
20 want to be -- if you don't want to disclose,
21 then don't be part of this body.
22 But if you want to be part of this
23 body, why, why keeping some people, pushing
24 some of us -- some of you that are not in the
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1 privileged class to fully disclose everything
2 and keeping us, the privileged class, not
3 fully disclosing something? That is wrong.
4 That is unacceptable.
5 So there is no transparency. There
6 is no full disclosure. And tomorrow I might
7 be criticized by whoever because I am voting
8 no on this bill. I would want me and every
9 one of us to fully disclose our clients. To
10 protect lawyers is wrong. And they are the
11 ones that are every day in the papers, the
12 papers pushing lawyers to disclose everything.
13 So you want to be a lawyer? That's
14 okay, be a lawyer. But you want to be part of
15 this body? Disclose everything. Disclose all
16 your clients. You don't have to tell us or to
17 tell the whole world what is the duty or the
18 business that you do with your client, but
19 disclose the client. Why being afraid of
20 letting people know who your clients are?
21 So there is no transparency.
22 Senator Squadron, I repeat, says that this is
23 a very difficult bill to swallow by many in
24 this room. I hope that this bill will also be
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1 very difficult to swallow by the editorial
2 boards of this state.
3 This bill should not be passed.
4 Let's send this bill back and have them make
5 everyone, every lawyer, every doctor, every
6 minister that are members of this body to
7 fully disclose their clients and to have a
8 real transparency, and then we vote for it.
9 I want real transparency. I want
10 full disclosure. And I'm asking all of you to
11 vote against this bill. And I'm voting
12 against it.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
14 you, Senator Diaz.
15 Senator Saland.
16 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you,
17 Mr. President.
18 Would Senator Schneiderman yield,
19 please.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
21 Senator Schneiderman, will you yield to
22 Senator Saland?
23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, I'm
24 glad to yield.
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1 SENATOR SALAND: I don't know if
2 this would be helpful; I would ask that he
3 might yield to a series of questions, if
4 that --
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: If
6 they're short and there's control, I'd be glad
7 to.
8 SENATOR SALAND: First, if I
9 might, Senator Schneiderman, in the 4201
10 school example that Senator Bonacic gave a bit
11 earlier, you said something to the effect, I
12 believe, that it would not be problematical
13 because there would be invitations to perhaps
14 the entire legislature. And when you look at
15 lines 47 and 48 and 49 on page 11, it
16 basically says 25 people other than
17 legislators, legislative staff.
18 So the fact that we might all be
19 invited doesn't rise to the threshold. It's
20 the number of people who were there and who
21 intended to be there at that event that really
22 will control. I say that not to be
23 confrontational but merely to raise that
24 point.
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1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
2 Through you, Mr. President, I see the line
3 that Senator Saland is talking about, and I
4 understand his point. I think that the --
5 that is one of the examples. I think the next
6 several provisions also would provide
7 exceptions there.
8 But do I understand your point.
9 When I made a reference to all of us being
10 invited to attend, that includes people other
11 than legislators --
12 SENATOR SALAND: It may well be
13 that there are intended to be 50 people from
14 4201 schools and only 12 showed.
15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. Yes.
16 And I meant to suggest that broad invitation
17 to everyone. Your point is well-taken that
18 this does -- the point here is to say you
19 can't have a couple of individuals seeking to
20 curry favor and the only other people who are
21 invited are the people they're attempting to
22 influence. So the point is well-taken.
23 However, I would also suggest that
24 there are other exceptions to this
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1 prohibition, including the general exception
2 that if an event is related to our duties and
3 responsibilities --
4 SENATOR SALAND: I take no issue
5 with your other comments. Please. That's
6 fine.
7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
8 SENATOR SALAND: First, let me
9 thank you. I had the opportunity to speak
10 with you on some of the matters that I am
11 going to probably repeat here today just for
12 purposes of putting them on the record, so to
13 speak.
14 One of my concerns was alluded to
15 briefly by Senator Bonacic, and that was under
16 both the Executive Ethics Commission and the
17 Legislative Ethics Commission there is a duty
18 to sign a nondisclosure statement. And the
19 penalty for a member of the commission or a
20 member of the staff violating that
21 nondisclosure is that they're subject to
22 appropriate action by the relevant commission.
23 I find that to be a matter of
24 concern. And I find it to be a matter of
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1 concern because let's assume two weeks before
2 a primary, or two weeks before a general
3 election, somebody leaks something of a
4 dubious or spurious nature that taints you.
5 And obviously, within the limited amount of
6 time, whatever your response is and whatever
7 the resolution may be, you may be, as an
8 elected official or a candidate, fatally
9 damaged. And to leave it in the hands of a
10 commission to take appropriation action, to
11 me, is not enough.
12 Now, I've looked at the Penal Law.
13 I don't think it rises to the level of
14 official misconduct. I don't think the
15 elements are there.
16 And what I am asking of you,
17 Senator Schneiderman, is that you very
18 seriously consider and take up with the other
19 house the issue of criminalizing that type of
20 breach. I think it's critically important,
21 and I think there are members here who could
22 well be victimized by somebody who -- of
23 either party, and be it a primary or general
24 election -- could be the victims of that kind
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1 of misconduct for which there would be minimal
2 consequences. And I would make that request
3 of you.
4 Bear with me. I just want to get
5 to the relevant pages.
6 Okay, on page 19, there is the
7 reference to the procedure which will be
8 followed by the Legislative Commission on
9 Ethics and Standards. And I'm looking at
10 lines 9 through 14, and it makes specific
11 reference to alleged violations of certain
12 sections of the Public Officers Law and any
13 other matter referred to it by the Assembly or
14 Senate Committee on Ethics or the Joint
15 Legislative Commission on Ethics pursuant to
16 subdivision 3 of this section.
17 And subdivision 3 makes reference
18 to "any other oversight body." And I'm not
19 quite sure what "any other oversight body"
20 might be and wonder if there's somebody here
21 who might be able to just enlighten me as to
22 what those other oversight bodies might be.
23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I'm sorry.
24 Through you, Mr. President. You're on
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1 page 19?
2 SENATOR SALAND: I'm looking at
3 page 19, lines 9 through 14. And it describes
4 the procedure under preliminary review. And
5 it says in addition to taking up alleged
6 violations of the Public Officers Law, they
7 can take up any other matter referred to it by
8 either the Assembly or Senate Ethics
9 Committees or the Joint Legislative Commission
10 on Ethics pursuant to subdivision 3.
11 And subdivision 3 also contains
12 reference to another oversight body. And I
13 don't know what oversight bodies exist other
14 than set forth in this same subparagraph. Who
15 else is there that can issue a complaint that
16 this body would have to take up?
17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I'm sorry.
18 Through you, Mr. President, I'm having a
19 little trouble following along in the text.
20 Where is the reference to other oversight
21 bodies?
22 SENATOR SALAND: I have to go
23 back to line 3D. Okay, that would be on page
24 18, starting at line 48.
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1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Oh, okay.
2 Through you, Mr. President, this reference to
3 the other ethics entities. Under this
4 legislation there are several oversight bodies
5 created. There is an executive body, there is
6 a legislative body, and there is the Lobbying
7 Commission. So referral from another
8 oversight body refers to those commissions.
9 And I think this language
10 essentially duplicates what exists in the
11 existing law. I don't think this is really a
12 change functionally.
13 SENATOR SALAND: So if in fact
14 there's a complaint from the executive
15 commission or the lobbying commission, that
16 matter gets referred to and taken up by the
17 legislative commission?
18 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I think
19 that the -- on page 19, line 12, it specifies
20 "matters referred by the Assembly or Senate
21 Standing Committees on Ethics or the Joint
22 Legislative Commission on Ethics Standards."
23 So I think that encompasses the other
24 oversight bodies.
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1 SENATOR SALAND: Again, it refers
2 back to subdivision 3. And that's where the
3 language which I just made reference to is
4 contained.
5 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Excuse me.
6 Through you, Mr. President, I'm having a
7 little trouble with the cross-reference. But
8 let me try and satisfy Senator Saland.
9 But certainly the intention here is
10 only to have reference among the bodies that
11 are involved in regulating ethics in the
12 Legislature, the ethics committees and the
13 oversight bodies created herein. (Pause.)
14 Through you, Mr. President.
15 Senator Saland, I believe that the parameters
16 are set out in a combination of the language
17 that you have cited -- which refers again to
18 the Assembly or Senate Standing Committees on
19 Ethics or the Joint Legislative Commission on
20 Ethics Standards -- and the language on
21 page 17 of the bill that refers to the
22 cross-referral provisions, again creating the
23 authority to refer violations to the Executive
24 Ethics and Compliance Commission or the Joint
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1 Legislative Commission on Ethics Standards.
2 The only oversight bodies that are
3 covered in this legislation are the oversight
4 bodies that are created in this legislation
5 and the existing Senate and Assembly Ethics
6 Committees.
7 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you,
8 Senator.
9 We had the opportunity, I'm sure
10 you recall, to discuss what I think is
11 probably just a drafting problem dealing with
12 the preliminary review and the secondary or
13 second-phase review where the second-phase
14 review -- and I think we'll find that at
15 page 20 -- specifically provides that the
16 commission will meet in executive session and
17 the preliminary review has no provision to
18 similar effect.
19 I would hope, by way of technical
20 amendment -- I think in our discussion you
21 indicated that these were all
22 executive-session matters and that there would
23 be an amendment to clarify that preliminary
24 and second phase are in executive session.
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1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes.
2 Through you, Mr. President, several other
3 Senators have come forward and offered similar
4 observations. We are working on a chapter
5 amendment to correct several technical
6 matters.
7 Senator Saland called several to
8 our attention, the look-back period with no
9 deadline, and those are matters we're taking
10 up.
11 I also want to add that the issue
12 that has been raised earlier relating to the
13 existence of an enforcement counsel and a
14 special counsel, one a Democrat and one a
15 Republican, we have attempted to address as
16 well by a chapter amendment, proposed chapter
17 amendment that I discussed with Senator
18 Flanagan, who raised this issue with us last
19 night.
20 So I do appreciate the input. And
21 subject to our ability to get agreement with
22 the Assembly, many of these points are points
23 well-taken that we are going to attempt to
24 address.
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1 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you,
2 Senator. And I won't go into the look-back.
3 That's fine, your representation is more than
4 satisfactory.
5 Over on page 29 --
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You're
7 continuing to yield, Senator Schneiderman?
8 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes.
9 SENATOR SALAND: Oh, thank you,
10 Mr. President. I'm sorry.
11 Over on page 29 there is language
12 to the effect of after the commission has
13 imposed a penalty, the legislator is still
14 subject to disciplinary action by the
15 appointing authority as otherwise provided by
16 law.
17 When you say "as otherwise provided
18 by law," is that statutory, constitutional, or
19 does it also apply to the rules, regulations
20 and whatever procedures there may be of each
21 house?
22 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I'm sorry,
23 I'm not sure I understand. I think that's a
24 general provision that is carried over from
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1 existing law that indicates that this is not
2 to be an exclusive definition of the authority
3 of the body.
4 But what was the line?
5 SENATOR SALAND: I'm on page 29.
6 And if you look at line 3, notwithstanding any
7 other provision of the law to the contrary, no
8 other penalty, civil or criminal, may be
9 imposed for failure to file or for false
10 filing except that the appointing authority
11 may impose disciplinary action as otherwise
12 provided by law. I omitted several things.
13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Right. I
14 mean, I think that's consistent with the rest
15 of this paragraph, which defines the
16 commission as an agency within the meaning of
17 the State Administrative Procedure Act. I
18 think this is a commission and agency. If
19 there's some other area of law that provides
20 them with authority, this is meant to make it
21 clear that we're not revoking that, that this
22 is not an exclusive provision.
23 But I think that this relates to
24 the question of disciplinary provisions or
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1 disciplinary actions provided by law. It's
2 meant to carry over any other disciplinary
3 provisions that are authorized under current
4 law.
5 SENATOR SALAND: If I could call
6 your attention to page 35 of the disclosure
7 form. There's new language added to
8 paragraph 5 in the form of a new paragraph
9 (b). And it reads that if a reporting
10 individual did business with or had matters
11 other than ministerial matters before any
12 state or local agency in the course of any
13 employment, trade, business, profession or
14 occupation engaged in by the reporting
15 individual, list name, address, entity,
16 description of activity.
17 Now, any employment, I would
18 assume, at least at first blush, would mean as
19 a legislator, as a businessperson, as an
20 attorney. So what this would seem to be doing
21 is saying that you have to report any contact
22 you have as a legislator, because it is a form
23 of an employment or occupation, in dealing
24 with any state or local agencies. And if
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1 that's not what's intended --
2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: No, no,
3 no. And through you, Mr. President, I think
4 that's covered by the portion of the sentence
5 that refers to doing business, which the
6 Legislative Ethics Commission has defined
7 as -- that does not include your legislative
8 activity. Doing business means something that
9 you're doing to make money outside of your
10 duties as a legislator.
11 SENATOR SALAND: Senator
12 Schneiderman, just for purposes of the record
13 and peace of mind, could you point out where
14 that in fact is in the law?
15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will --
16 I don't have that here with me, but we will
17 identify that for you, Senator Saland.
18 But it is certainly not the intent
19 of this to include within the language of
20 "employment, trade, business, profession or
21 occupation" your duties as a legislator. This
22 form relates entirely to outside activities
23 and the disclosure of outside activities. So
24 it is clearly not the intent to include that.
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1 SENATOR SALAND: And I appreciate
2 that. And I would hope that if in fact we
3 don't have language in some enabling portion,
4 that it be clarified. Because there's nobody
5 here that doesn't multiple times a week deal
6 with a local agency or, in the case of those
7 outside the City of New York, another level of
8 government.
9 And lastly, on page 37, again on
10 the disclosure form. And Section 8(a) is
11 amended, there's new language combined with
12 existing language, and it reads:
13 "Additionally, if such an individual practices
14 with a firm or corporation and is a partner or
15 shareholder of the firm or corporation, give a
16 general description of the principal subject
17 areas or matters undertaken by such firm or
18 corporation. If the matters undertaken by
19 such firm or corporation were such that no
20 principal subject areas or matters were
21 undertaken, give a general description of the
22 practice or activities undertaken."
23 I would assume that it's clear that
24 if you're not a partner or a shareholder, this
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1 provision does not apply to whomever might be
2 filling this application out -- this
3 disclosure form out, excuse me.
4 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: The
5 disclosure.
6 SENATOR SALAND: Yes.
7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes.
8 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you very
9 much, Senator Schneiderman.
10 Thank you, Mr. President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
12 you, Senator Saland and Senator Schneiderman,
13 for the collegiality.
14 We're getting close to the
15 deadline. Hopefully we won't have to exercise
16 strict restraints. We have about 25 minutes
17 left on the appropriate allocation.
18 Next is Senator Liz Krueger.
19 Senator Krueger.
20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you,
21 Mr. President. I'd like to speak on the bill.
22 I apologize; I have a cold. So I hope I
23 consider can be heard clearly.
24 This isn't a perfect bill. I have
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1 appreciated all the dialogue back and forth
2 and particularly appreciated Senator
3 Schneiderman's efforts not only in writing
4 this bill and coordinating its movement
5 through both houses but also in the respect
6 that was shown by my colleagues on both sides
7 of the aisle in having serious and substantive
8 questions about what the bill means, what's
9 not there, what is there.
10 And I'll tell you, I have many
11 agreements with the issues that were raised
12 today by my colleagues on both sides of the
13 aisle. I in fact would prefer it to be a
14 broader bill, to have actually have language
15 included in it that was referenced through
16 several of the hostile amendments. I have
17 bills that I have been carrying for years on
18 ethics-related topics that I would have hoped
19 would have been included in this bill as well.
20 But you know what, they weren't.
21 It's not a perfect bill. It's not
22 the full loaf of bread. It's not everything I
23 hope we will get to here in the Legislature.
24 But what it is is a bill that can pass both
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1 houses of the Legislature and become law. And
2 I think that that is critical, that even if
3 it's not perfect, it is a good start with
4 important changes.
5 One of my colleagues referenced
6 that if you're not ethical, there's really not
7 that much we can do about it in changing the
8 laws of New York State. Well, I agree. The
9 perfect system is to only elect perfectly
10 ethical people. The dilemma, of course, is
11 the decision of the voters leads to who ends
12 up in office. And each of us can tell our own
13 stories from a partisan or from a personal
14 perspective or from a geographical perspective
15 as to why we each think the voters made
16 mistakes at some point in time and voted the
17 wrong person into office.
18 I, to be honest, don't understand
19 how the people of Massachusetts voted for a
20 new U.S. Senator last night who wasn't the
21 Democratic woman. And yet that was the will
22 of the voters.
23 So we don't control the election of
24 only perfectly ethical people, but what we can
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1 do is not only strengthen but also clarify
2 what the expectations of each other are and of
3 what the public is of us as their elected
4 officials. And in fact this law will go a
5 long way toward that goal.
6 I've been here since 2002. I
7 didn't see any other bills moving to the floor
8 to actually be passed into law that would
9 significantly improve the laws around ethics
10 and the standards that are applied.
11 There was a great dialogue that
12 took place about Senator Squadron's bill
13 earlier. It might also not be a perfect bill,
14 but it's clear that it's attempting to clarify
15 what is not okay as far as committing fraud
16 while in office.
17 We can all argue about the details.
18 We could even talk to Senator Squadron later
19 about chapter amendments to further clarify
20 and improve his law. I look forward to doing
21 that.
22 I know that I have other bills I
23 wish were in this package today. For example,
24 I think we should go much further on limiting
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1 lobbyist contributions and in requiring
2 improved standards for our campaign finance
3 funds. I've carried a bill for years that
4 would lay out what you could use your campaign
5 funds for, what you couldn't use your funds
6 for, that you couldn't use those for personal
7 purposes. Or, ironically, that you couldn't
8 use them in perpetuity after you had left
9 office or technically, in some cases, after
10 you were deceased. Some campaign committees
11 continue after the named candidate is
12 deceased. I've always been a little confused
13 about that. I think we should deal with that.
14 I understand the arguments over
15 putting limits on what consultants can do and
16 the differences between campaign consultants
17 and lobbyists and the gray area there. I
18 think New York City's law is a good law, and I
19 would like us to move that as well.
20 I don't quite understand an overall
21 obsession about the value of food as part of
22 the discussion today. I don't really think
23 the public is as obsessed with which food will
24 you eat or not eat at a not-for-profit event
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1 or other community event. But I think that
2 the public wants to know who are we getting
3 our campaign contributions from and what are
4 the limits.
5 I, for example, would have a much
6 greater problem with the fact that if you are
7 a person who has twenty LLCs, you can give the
8 maximum amount 20 times to one person, and
9 you're really one entity. If you're a
10 corporation, you have to stop at $5,000 per
11 year. But if you're one person who has 20
12 LLCs, you can give $9,500 twenty times over to
13 any individual legislator. I have a huge
14 problem with that, and I wish we dealt with
15 that in this bill.
16 I also carry a bill, and I wish it
17 was included in this package as well, that
18 would deny pensions to public officials
19 convicted of crimes related to their duties.
20 It's a pretty extreme bill, and many of you
21 have shared with me why you have concerns
22 about that. But I would have liked to see
23 that as well.
24 What I do know is that I can go
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1 home if we pass this bill and tell people that
2 we did provide much more specific transparency
3 to who's doing business with whom, to who is
4 receiving money from whom, to making sure that
5 whether you're a lawyer or a consultant, if
6 your client is doing business with the State
7 of New York, that is going to be recorded,
8 both by the client on their side of the
9 assignment but also by you if you are being
10 hired to represent them as a lawyer or as a
11 consultant in a matter before the state.
12 I think it would have been fine if
13 we went further on lawyer -- thank you so
14 much. Excuse me. One giant cold in this
15 chamber today.
16 So I would have liked to see us go
17 further on disclosure, on tracking who was
18 doing what in front of state agencies and
19 whether it was a private business assignment
20 or a function of your office as an
21 Assemblymember or a Senator.
22 What we create with this bill is
23 three separate entities that each will have
24 the ability to go forward with regulation and
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1 with rules that we will have to live under.
2 So even when I say I wish there were more
3 things in this bill, I know that through the
4 passage of this law and the creation of these
5 oversight entities, in fact I might get my
6 wish through regulation even if it's not
7 explicit in this law.
8 And I know that I am very open to
9 having other ethics bills come to the floor of
10 this house. I'm very open to having campaign
11 finance law, clean election laws come to the
12 floor of this house.
13 And despite the frustrations that
14 perhaps each of us has that we don't see this
15 as a perfect bill -- some may think goes too
16 far; some, like me, don't think it goes far
17 enough -- we can make this a law in New York
18 State and we will have to live under it. And
19 the public will also think you didn't go far
20 enough, but we'll be able to tell them we took
21 this significant step, and they will hold us
22 accountable. Not only for this law, but for
23 what we do after this in moving forward with a
24 broader agenda on ethics.
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1 And ultimately, yes, I want to be a
2 member of the New York State Legislature where
3 everyone can say, You don't need any of these
4 laws, you don't need any of these
5 clarifications, because every member of the
6 Senate and the Assembly are perfectly ethical
7 people.
8 But you know what they talk about
9 democracy, right, it's not such a great system
10 until you look at the alternatives. And so in
11 fact we need ethics legislation, we need to
12 pass this bill today, and we need to not pat
13 ourselves on the back that much because we
14 have further to go.
15 But again, I've been here since
16 2002. I sat here when the other side of the
17 aisle was in control of the house and didn't
18 move legislation. And you're right, this
19 isn't a perfect bill and it wasn't a
20 100 percent bipartisan discussion -- although
21 we've been discussing this for a lot of
22 months, so I'd be surprised if any of my
23 colleagues didn't know some of the things that
24 we were discussing throughout the process.
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1 I vote yes, Mr. President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
3 you, Senator Krueger.
4 Senator DeFrancisco on the bill.
5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Just in
6 response to Senator Krueger, I don't think
7 anybody on this side of the aisle is obsessing
8 over food and when you can get a $10 lunch or
9 a $20 lunch.
10 But the problem is I think
11 everybody in this house should be obsessing
12 over the fact that you want to be in
13 compliance with whatever the new rules may be.
14 And this is not something that we're just
15 pulling something out of the air, because if
16 you remember the good State Commission on
17 Public Integrity actually got some records
18 from a couple of lobbyists -- I think one was
19 a lawyer, one was somebody else -- figured out
20 what the total amount of the event was,
21 divided by the number of people there, and
22 attributed a certain amount of money to each
23 legislator that may have showed up and shook
24 hands and got the hell out of there like we
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1 normally want to get out.
2 So -- but that clouds your
3 integrity if someone interprets the laws that
4 way, so I think that's why Senator Bonacic was
5 very clear in trying to go through that area.
6 I'd ask Senator Schneiderman --
7 this is my last area of inquiry -- if he would
8 yield to a question.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
10 Senator Schneiderman, will you yield to a
11 question from Senator DeFrancisco?
12 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes,
13 Mr. President, I will yield.
14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Page 25,
15 the first paragraph, paragraph 9, if you'd
16 just read that.
17 And as you're going through it, it
18 basically -- and this is dealing with
19 financial disclosure -- it basically allows
20 the commission to not require disclosure of a
21 part of a financial statement if they find
22 that -- if it was disclosed it would have no
23 material bearing on the discharge of the
24 reporting person's official duties.
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1 In other words, there's some
2 authority that if you disclose something and
3 it doesn't have to be brought to the public
4 upon application if it's found not to have any
5 bearing on the reporting person's official
6 responsibilities. Is that correct?
7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I
8 believe -- through you, Mr. President, I
9 believe that's correct. Let me just take a
10 moment to confirm it.
11 And I'm pretty confident this is
12 just carried over from existing law, this is
13 in the existing law relating to our disclosure
14 already.
15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I
16 understand that. And I agree with you.
17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes,
18 Mr. President, I believe that's correct.
19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And the
20 point I would like to make, and then I have
21 one last question, is that --
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Would
23 you yield for one last question, Senator
24 Schneiderman?
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1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: One last
2 question.
3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Before I
4 ask that question, I just want to make one
5 point.
6 I guess what I'm concerned about,
7 we have a public disclosure -- or a disclosure
8 form. And admittedly, even under the existing
9 rules, it doesn't have to be closed upon
10 application if it's found not to have a
11 material bearing on your performance of your
12 duties.
13 If it doesn't have a material
14 bearing on the performance of the duties, what
15 in God's name do we have to disclose it in the
16 first place for? Why would we have to have an
17 exception to a disclosure requirement if it
18 has no bearing on your duties? If it has no
19 bearing on your duties, it shouldn't be in
20 there in the first place.
21 So my question, if Senator
22 Schneiderman would yield, is as follows.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
24 Senator Schneiderman has yielded.
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1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: The
2 question is as follows. Can you tell me what
3 relevance it is for the general public in the
4 performance of my duties why there's an
5 additional category of how much money somebody
6 makes that's required under this form?
7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
8 you, Mr. President. Senator DeFrancisco is --
9 I believe you're referring to the fact that
10 we've added an additional category of
11 disclosure to narrow the ranges that are being
12 disclosed?
13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And to
14 require a higher range to be disclosed.
15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well,
16 through you, Mr. President, one of the
17 complaints that has frequently been made is
18 that our disclosure forms really don't provide
19 much information to the public. First of all,
20 because the categories -- which are, you know,
21 $20,000 to $50,000, $50,000 to $100,000, or
22 whatever -- have actually been redacted up
23 till now. This bill changes that.
24 And there's an additional category
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1 that is added because of the criticism that at
2 the top end the range was just too vast.
3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: All right.
4 And would you yield to one other question?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: This
6 is the absolute last question from Senator
7 DeFrancisco.
8 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you.
9 And I appreciate the fact that everyone has
10 allowed Senator DeFrancisco to waive their
11 rights to further questions as well.
12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Okay, but I
13 didn't waive anything.
14 My point is simply this. I'm
15 looking for guidance. What relevance does it
16 have as to whether someone makes $10,000 extra
17 a year or a million dollars extra a year?
18 Isn't the real question who you're dealing
19 with, whether you're compromising your public
20 position?
21 What relevance does it have? It
22 may be nice that the public may want to know,
23 but what relevance does it have in the
24 performance of duties?
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1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well,
2 through you, Mr. President, the goal here is
3 more disclosure and the goal here is more
4 transparency. And with all due respect, I do
5 think that my constituents certainly would be
6 much more interested in the fact that if I was
7 making money because I have holdings in a
8 particular company -- whether I was making
9 $100 a year or $1 million a year -- as far as
10 their assessment of what my concerns might be
11 about that company or about the sector of
12 industry to which that company belonged.
13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: On the
14 bill.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
16 Senator DeFrancisco on the bill.
17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: The point
18 I'm trying to make is it's obviously very
19 relevant as to how you earn your income and
20 whether that income somehow affects your
21 responsibilities as a legislator.
22 However, the gross amount of income
23 to me is totally irrelevant. The people may
24 want to know a lot of personal information
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1 about someone who might want to be a
2 candidate. If you're making no additional
3 income, does that mean, do you draw the
4 conclusion that you're more susceptible of
5 graft or corruption? Or that you're just
6 incapable of making more money and therefore
7 you're less likely to be a good legislator?
8 Or if you make a lot of money --
9 and by the way, this additional category
10 doesn't affect me, just so you know. If you
11 make a lot of money, if you make a lot of
12 money, what does that mean? That you made the
13 money in an irresponsible or an unethical
14 manner? What does it mean? What does it tell
15 the general public?
16 And I think what it really does, in
17 my judgment, is that it may attempt -- and
18 this is true not only for legislators but
19 people on committees that don't even have an
20 income from those committees, they're doing
21 public service, they have to fill these forms
22 out. Why would I ever want to disclose to the
23 world how successful or unsuccessful I am in
24 my outside endeavors for the luxury of
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1 becoming a nonpaid commission member?
2 In my judgment, if it's not
3 relevant, it's simply a chilling effect,
4 whether it's too little income or too great an
5 income, for good people to want to get
6 involved in this business, whether it's
7 elected office or appointed office.
8 So I guess the point is I would
9 hope that when we review these items it
10 shouldn't just be the people want to know.
11 Because it should be is it relevant to the
12 performance of the person's duties and does it
13 help to determine whether the person is acting
14 ethically.
15 Thank you, Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
17 you, Senator DeFrancisco.
18 Senator Craig Johnson on the bill.
19 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank you
20 very much.
21 Will the sponsor yield for a couple
22 of very quick questions?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
24 Senator Schneiderman, do you yield to Senator
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1 Johnson?
2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: For very
3 quick questions, yes, Mr. President.
4 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank you
5 very much, Senator Schneiderman.
6 Senator Saland raised my issues
7 with respect to the proposed new 5(b) in the
8 disclosure form, but I want to address new
9 language on page 37 of the bill. It's a new
10 language in Section 8(a). I'll wait until you
11 just grab it. It's page 37, Section 8(a).
12 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, I
13 have that, Senator Johnson.
14 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Senator
15 Schneiderman, with respect to the language,
16 the first sentence reads: "If the reporting
17 individual practices law, is licensed by the
18 Department of State as a real estate broker or
19 agent or practices a profession licensed by
20 the Department of Education, give a general
21 description of the principal subject areas or
22 matters undertaken by such an individual."
23 That's old language, nothing's
24 changed; correct?
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1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Correct.
2 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Okay.
3 Will the Senator continue to yield for a
4 question?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Do you
6 continue to yield, Senator Schneiderman, to
7 Senator Johnson?
8 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You
10 may proceed, Senator Johnson.
11 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Senator
12 Schneiderman, I focus now on the new language
13 that's being added.
14 If the nature of the reporting
15 individual's practice or activities were such
16 that -- can I just get a little order? I'm
17 sorry, I can't hear.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: May we
19 have a little quiet? Thank you.
20 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank
21 you, Mr. President.
22 "If the nature of the reporting
23 individual's practice or activities were such
24 that no principal subject areas or matters
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1 were undertaken, give a general description of
2 the practice or activities undertaken." Can I
3 get a clarification of what that means?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
5 Senator Schneiderman.
6 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
7 you, Mr. President. This is intended to cover
8 a situation in which the individual is not
9 undertaking -- is not actually engaged in the
10 representation.
11 So the point here is that the first
12 sentence indicates that you have to specify
13 the principal subject areas of matters
14 undertaken by the individual who is actually
15 practicing law. If that individual is not
16 explicitly performing those activities but is
17 nonetheless compensated for it -- if you are a
18 senior partner and you're not actually
19 performing the activities but the activities
20 are nonetheless being performed by your firm,
21 it's intended to cover that circumstance.
22 Which is admittedly a rare circumstance, but
23 it apparently does come up.
24 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Will the
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1 sponsor continue to yield.
2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes.
3 Through you, Mr. President, I will continue to
4 yield.
5 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Senator
6 Schneiderman, I'm not trying to be difficult,
7 I'm just a little befuddled in the sense
8 that --
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
10 Through the chair. Would you like Senator
11 Schneiderman to continue to yield?
12 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Oh, we
13 did that already. Yes, Mr. President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: No,
15 you didn't.
16 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Of
17 course. Through you, Mr. President.
18 Senator Schneiderman, again, I'm
19 just a little confused by this. If an
20 individual is a lawyer and they are of counsel
21 or an associate at a law firm, and they are
22 a -- maybe they are a general litigator, they
23 are in the litigation department of a law
24 firm, what are they required under this
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1 section to do?
2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
3 you, Mr. President, this sentence was added
4 because of an admittedly unusual circumstance
5 which was not being picked up by the
6 preexisting language. The preexisting
7 language refers to the subject matters of
8 areas undertaken by such individuals. So
9 that's if I'm a lawyer, the things that I am
10 working on.
11 There are some circumstances in
12 which lawyers are being compensated for work
13 that goes on in their firm but they as
14 individuals are not engaged in that practice.
15 So that particular odd exception is picked up
16 by this sentence.
17 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:
18 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to
19 yield?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
21 Senator Schneiderman, will you continue to
22 yield?
23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will
24 continue to yield.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You
2 may proceed.
3 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Through
4 you, Mr. President, so a hypothetical is if I
5 am -- or if a Senator or an Assemblymember who
6 is also a lawyer is a partner in a firm and
7 they're a partner in real estate matters, but
8 a tax matter comes in through that partner,
9 that partner is able to bring in business,
10 does no work related to it, but derives
11 compensation from it, this new sentence, this
12 second sentence that we've read, this requires
13 now the disclosure of that matter?
14 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: No.
15 Through you, Mr. President. Again, this is a
16 very narrow provision. This is a provision in
17 which no principal subject areas or matters
18 are undertaken by the individual. This is
19 that rare dream job where you actually don't
20 do anything, but you get compensated for the
21 practice of others -- to which we all aspire
22 when we retire from here. But it was not
23 picked up by the previous language.
24 If you are engaged in any practice,
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1 any subject matter area, you have to show --
2 you have to disclose what area you practice
3 in. There are some people who apparently are
4 not engaged in any subject matter area or
5 practice. So if you're a litigator, you don't
6 have to disclose the tax stuff, you disclose
7 that you're a litigator.
8 Apparently there's some people who
9 don't have any subject matter area and yet are
10 receiving compensation for the business of the
11 firm, and that's what this is designed for.
12 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:
13 Excellent. Thank you very much.
14 Mr. President, on the bill.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
16 Senator Johnson on the bill.
17 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I want to
18 thank you, Senator Schneiderman and Senator
19 Squadron and the leader, Senator Sampson, for
20 sponsoring and leading the effort.
21 Obviously, and hearing the very
22 good questions by my colleagues on both sides
23 of the aisle with respect to this bill, a lot
24 more work has to be done. But you have to
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1 start somewhere. And if you don't start
2 somewhere, the problems are going to continue
3 to pile up.
4 I'm going to sponsor this piece of
5 legislation. I think we have more ways to go.
6 I look forward to working with both sides of
7 the aisle to craft other pieces of
8 legislation. Clearly, Senator Bonacic, you've
9 indicated that, that we do have places to go,
10 and I look forward to going in those places
11 with you.
12 But for today, I think it's
13 important to pass this piece of legislation to
14 set an example for New York to see. So I'll
15 be voting aye on the bill.
16 Thank you very much, Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
18 you, Senator Johnson.
19 Senator Flanagan.
20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Would Senator
21 Schneiderman yield to several questions,
22 please.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
24 Senator Schneiderman, would you yield to
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1 Senator Flanagan?
2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Mr.
3 President, I'll be glad to yield to Senator
4 Flanagan.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
6 Senator Flanagan.
7 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you.
8 First, I appreciate the time
9 yesterday and today. I appreciate the
10 dialogue and communication. I do think it's
11 helpful.
12 And a lot of our colleagues have
13 made comments. I feel, like most people, I
14 think what a lot of us are trying to do is
15 figure out how to do the right thing, how to
16 stay out of trouble, and how to interpret some
17 of these provisions so that nobody does get
18 into trouble.
19 So specifically, following up on
20 something Senator Saland had mentioned and I
21 think Senator Johnson alluded to it, can
22 you -- on page 35 of the bill, Section 5(b),
23 which you had an extended discussion with
24 Senator Saland on that provision. I want to
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1 take a different tack on that.
2 If I interpret this correctly, if I
3 do work as an attorney -- or, for that matter,
4 anybody does work as an attorney -- and I
5 don't do anything with the State of New York
6 but I work on a zoning matter or I work on a
7 permit or I work on something, say, in the
8 Surrogate's Court, it appears to me that I
9 would have to list every single thing.
10 So if you're representing somebody
11 and it's a -- say it's a zoning application
12 and you are dealing with a municipality, you
13 may be dealing with the Health Department, it
14 appears that all of that activity would have
15 to be disclosed.
16 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
17 you, Mr. President. If you are, again, doing
18 business, which means you're doing this to
19 make money, it's not just to help
20 constituents -- if you're doing business and
21 you are appearing in front of an agency, a
22 zoning board, and being paid to do it, for
23 something other than a ministerial matter --
24 which means something as to which there's
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1 discretion -- yes, you do have to disclose
2 that. That's a part of your money-making
3 outside activities.
4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And that's
5 clearly what you intend.
6 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. You
7 have to disclose -- so for example, if you are
8 representing a client before a local zoning
9 board in your district and you're being paid
10 to represent them, yes, that is something you
11 have to disclose it.
12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay, let me
13 ask this. Going to --
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
15 Senator, do you wish Senator Schneiderman to
16 yield?
17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I'm sorry.
18 Would Senator Schneiderman continue to yield?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
20 Senator Schneiderman, do you yield?
21 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes,
22 Mr. President.
23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: If I am
24 representing -- or it doesn't matter, I'm
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1 using me as a reference. It could be
2 applicable to a lot of different people in
3 both houses.
4 You're working on a matter in a
5 local government having absolutely nothing to
6 do with the State of New York. What is the
7 relevance of having to make that disclosure?
8 What is achieved by having someone have to do
9 that?
10 Because I can tell you, for anyone
11 who may actively try and practice, this line
12 here with four or five lines, you're going to
13 need a small volume if you're doing any real
14 work. Because you're now going to have to
15 describe every single thing you do that
16 involves government, period.
17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Mr.
18 President, I don't think you have to describe
19 anything you do that involves government,
20 period.
21 This has to do with representing
22 someone in matters before a state or local
23 agency. So this means you are actually
24 appearing representing someone. It doesn't
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1 mean you are filing things, which is a
2 ministerial act. It doesn't mean any other
3 interaction.
4 But yes, Senator Flanagan, if I am
5 representing a client and I am not
6 representing them in front of the state
7 government but in front of the government of
8 the City of New York or of some other local
9 community, I think there is a legitimate
10 concern that those of us who are in positions
11 of authority as public figures should disclose
12 our interactions with local governments of the
13 State of New York as well as with the state
14 government. And that's what this provision
15 requires.
16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: So that would
17 apply to -- Mr. President, would Senator
18 Schneiderman continue to yield?
19 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, I
20 yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: He
22 continues to yield.
23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: That would
24 apply to the Health Department?
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1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
2 you, Mr. President. Again, if you are, as a
3 matter of your business, being paid to
4 represent someone in dealing with the Health
5 Department -- say, for example, you were
6 retained by a major hospital to go in and
7 represent them because the Health Department
8 is subjecting them to disciplinary
9 proceedings -- yes, you would have to disclose
10 that.
11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: If I could
12 shift gears, Senator Schneiderman.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Would
14 you like Senator Schneiderman to continue to
15 yield?
16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes, I would,
17 Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
19 Senator Schneiderman?
20 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I continue
21 to yield, Mr. President.
22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Going back to
23 the discussion you had with Senator Bonacic,
24 you used a phrase that I'd like to go back to
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1 just to make sure what your intention was.
2 Following the disclosure by the
3 client of a relationship if you're doing
4 business, you used the phrase that there would
5 have to be disclosure if you share in the
6 profits of the firm. Now, in --
7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I don't
8 remember the exact context, but yes, one of
9 the principal objectives of the disclosure
10 requirement for those doing business with the
11 state is if I'm being paid directly or if I'm
12 sharing in the profits of the firm, correct.
13 SENATOR FLANAGAN: But relative
14 to the language of the bill, that's not what
15 the bill says. It references partner,
16 manager, director. It doesn't say anything
17 about one who may share in the profits of the
18 firm.
19 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well,
20 actually -- through you, Mr. President -- on
21 page 13, and I believe this is what I was
22 discussing with Senator Bonacic, the issue of
23 the reportable business relationship does
24 refer specifically to whether or not I or any
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1 of us is a proprietor, partner, director,
2 officer or manager or owns or controls
3 10 percent or more of the stock of such entity
4 or 1 percent in the case of a corporation
5 whose stock is regularly traded.
6 So the ownership interest is in
7 fact something that we address directly.
8 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. But
9 your phrase referencing sharing in the profits
10 of the firm -- and I don't mean to split
11 hairs; I think these are important
12 considerations from a very practical
13 standpoint -- someone could be a working for
14 an entity and not be a manager, not be a
15 director, not be a partner, not have ownership
16 of any stock, and yet share in the profits of
17 the firm.
18 So if we're looking at legislative
19 intent, I would go to the plain reading of the
20 statute and say that what you said on the
21 floor would not be applicable unless you fit
22 into one of those specific categories.
23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
24 you, Mr. President. I guess the -- certainly
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1 the intent of this language -- and I believe
2 it covers everything when you refer to
3 proprietor, partner, owner, control of
4 10 percent. The point here is that it's a
5 reportable business relationship. If I am
6 hired to do work myself or if I am benefiting
7 from the relationship.
8 This is intended to exclude
9 situations in which someone is a salaried
10 employee and whether there's more money or
11 less money paid doesn't affect my actual
12 compensation.
13 And I believe we've covered
14 everything. But if you have a specific
15 suggestion for something we could add to our
16 chapter amendment, I'd be glad to hear it.
17 But that is certainly the intent.
18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President,
19 would Senator Schneiderman continue to yield?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
21 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to
22 yield?
23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
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1 Senator Flanagan.
2 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Two other
3 areas.
4 The excess contribution piece --
5 and we had had a discussion about that. I
6 just want to clarify what that standard is,
7 because we're shifting the burden under this
8 legislation.
9 Now a campaign committee can have a
10 civil penalty of up to $10,000 and a fine as
11 well -- returning money and civil penalties of
12 up to $10,000.
13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, there
14 are --
15 SENATOR FLANAGAN: A lot of the
16 members in both houses have periodically
17 gotten letters saying "By the way, we
18 overcontributed, you need to send us money
19 back." Now, we wouldn't know that unless we
20 were informed of it.
21 So it seems that we're shifting the
22 burden to a campaign committee, and there's no
23 way that we'd know. So how does one protect
24 oneself against that kind of problem?
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1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
2 you, Mr. President, you can't be subject to
3 any penalty without notice.
4 In fact, page 53 of the bill,
5 line 42, actually has a mens rea element. If
6 you accept the contribution, it has to be
7 under circumstances evincing an intent to
8 violate such law. So you have to have that
9 intent if you unlawfully accept a contribution
10 in excess of a contribution limitation.
11 Inadvertent, accidental -- not covered here.
12 And in fact, as we discussed
13 before, there is an opportunity to cure that
14 is provided. In fact, under this law, there
15 is this explicit provision that you need a
16 60-day period before -- there must be a vote
17 within 60 days to authorize the investigation
18 to go forward, and within that period of time
19 you can deal with the situation.
20 But it wouldn't matter anyway,
21 because you have to have the intent to violate
22 the law. So if you're not on notice, they
23 can't show you have intent to violate the law.
24 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Last -- if
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1 Senator Schneiderman would continue to yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
3 Senator Schneiderman, do you --
4 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Last
5 question, Mr. President. Yes, last question,
6 5:09, Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 5:09.
8 SENATOR FLANAGAN: 5:09 doesn't
9 really matter to me. The fact is we're doing
10 this bill because we need to.
11 Going back to what Senator Bonacic
12 had talked about -- and I gave you my specific
13 concerns on the enforcement counsel. I
14 believe it is fair to represent that all
15 candidates, statewide, state officials like
16 us, and all local candidates -- county
17 executives, village mayors, town
18 supervisors -- all of them will be subject to
19 the jurisdiction of this enforcement counsel
20 by virtue of the fact that anything that gets
21 filed with the board, they have jurisdiction.
22 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. Any
23 of the local entities are required to file,
24 yes, correct.
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1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. And I
2 appreciate the potential draft language and
3 the chapter amendment for the enforcement
4 counsel.
5 I want to be clear, I don't believe
6 that it's a co-enforcement counsel at all.
7 You allow the deputy, maybe, you allow the
8 deputy maybe to comment. So --
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
10 Senator Flanagan, are you on the bill now?
11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you,
12 Senator Schneiderman.
13 On the bill.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
15 Senator Flanagan on the bill.
16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: This is the
17 kind of thing that gets dicey, because
18 everybody gets antsy when you have to get up
19 and talk about these kinds of things. But I
20 John DeFrancisco and others raised some valid
21 points.
22 By and large, a lot of people, if
23 not the overwhelming majority, are trying to
24 do the right thing. And knowing the rules and
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1 knowing guidelines and getting the
2 interpretations correct is extraordinarily
3 important.
4 My concern is with the change at
5 the Board of Elections. I don't believe that
6 this is bipartisan at all. I believe that
7 we're taking a body and making it intensely
8 partisan. And now basically you're going to
9 have a member of the Democratic Party -- and I
10 would feel the same by the way it were
11 Republican, because I think it takes away the
12 balance. You're setting up a scenario now
13 where for certainly the foreseeable future, if
14 not in perpetuity, the enforcement arm of the
15 Board of Elections will be completely
16 controlled by the Democrats.
17 Senator Bonacic talked about
18 potential prosecutorial abuse. I agree. I
19 think the opportunity is there, and I don't
20 think there's enough check and balance.
21 Take the election that just took
22 place in Massachusetts. It wouldn't be beyond
23 the realm of possibility to suggest that
24 somehow in the last couple of weeks of the
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1 campaign an investigation comes out, and
2 there's nothing in this bill that prevents the
3 release of all that information. An
4 investigation can be started, it can take a
5 long time, not bear any fruit and just be left
6 hanging out there, and damage not only sitting
7 elected officials but people who are
8 candidates.
9 I think it is setting up a system
10 that is way more partisan than it should be.
11 And if there's going to be any further
12 discussions about this, that's the kind of
13 fundamental change that we should be making.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
15 you, Senator Flanagan.
16 Senator Foley on the bill.
17 SENATOR FOLEY: Thank you,
18 Mr. President.
19 I stand here this evening in strong
20 support for this proposed legislation. And
21 coming from a background, Mr. President, as
22 supervisor in the past and also as county
23 legislator, this Senator over a period of
24 years has been part of efforts at the local
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1 governmental level to greatly strengthen those
2 local ethics laws.
3 And in so doing, when we strengthen
4 these laws, we regain the public's confidence
5 in those local governments. And by regaining
6 that particular confidence, we then regain
7 people's confidence in the system of governing
8 and in politics in general.
9 I know where I speak from. Prior
10 to being a State Senator, I was the supervisor
11 of the Town of Brookhaven. Brookhaven had a
12 shameful nickname, a shameful nickname that
13 rhymed with Brookhaven. And it was earned
14 over a period of decades where, among other
15 things, the politically favored few received
16 multi-million-dollar no-bid insurance
17 contracts. That did not change until this
18 Senator became the supervisor. And when we
19 went into that particular office, not only did
20 we clean house but we changed the ethics laws
21 of that particular level of government, and in
22 so doing helped to restore the confidence in
23 that particular level of government where
24 today it is once again called Brookhaven.
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1 That's what we're doing today here
2 in Albany. When I was elected over a year
3 ago, there was a crisis of confidence in this
4 particular Capitol. We heard about
5 dysfunctionality. We heard about the culture
6 of corruption that afflicted some elements --
7 not all, but some -- in this particular
8 Capitol.
9 Today's passage of this legislation
10 is not a minor step, it's not a step at all.
11 It is a major achievement to have this
12 approved today, full well knowing that more
13 needs to be done in the future.
14 But I can stand here tonight,
15 strongly support this legislation, and say to
16 those cynics who believed that nothing would
17 ever change in this Capitol that within the
18 first year of taking the majority of this
19 particular house, that we are bringing
20 meaningful change to this Capitol, we're
21 bringing substantial change to this Capitol,
22 and I think the proof of the pudding, if you
23 will, will be the fact that this will receive
24 wide bipartisan support tonight.
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1 So I stand here this evening
2 strongly supporting this legislation. It is
3 in keeping with this Senator's let's say fight
4 over a period of decades now, first in the
5 county legislature, then in the Town of
6 Brookhaven, and now at the state governmental
7 level, to bring ethics reforms that will
8 restore confidence.
9 And I think after tonight's vote we
10 are starting to restore confidence so the
11 public can once again believe again in our
12 democratic, small D, in our democratic
13 institutions.
14 Thank you, Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
16 you, Senator Foley.
17 And can we have some quiet. We
18 only have a couple more speakers.
19 Senator Griffo.
20 SENATOR GRIFFO: Mr. President,
21 would Senator Schneiderman yield for a quick
22 question or clarification?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Will
24 you yield to a question for clarification from
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1 Senator Griffo?
2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes,
3 Mr. President, I will yield for either a quick
4 question or a clarification.
5 SENATOR GRIFFO: Thank you,
6 Senator.
7 We've discussed a number of
8 illustrations here relative to the standards
9 portion on page 11, on what's governed by the
10 bill. And as you know, I would think that
11 Legislative Law Article 1A would apply to this
12 bill.
13 So the question is, who else, if
14 you look at that, is governed by this bill?
15 Like for instance under Legislative Law 1A,
16 going down through all of them, it says
17 municipal officers. So the question would be
18 would all local government officials like
19 mayors, town supervisors, county legislators,
20 county execs, also have to comply particularly
21 with the standards portion?
22 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
23 you, Mr. President. I'm sorry, what line are
24 you on? What page are you on?
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1 SENATOR GRIFFO: I'm talking
2 about page 11, the standards portion of the
3 bill, but then talking about Legislative Law
4 Article 1A, which describes the term of
5 "public official," which I think would apply
6 to this particular piece of legislation. It
7 outlines a public official, such as a member
8 of the State Legislature, Governor, Lieutenant
9 Governor, officers or employees of statewide
10 elected offices, officers or employees of
11 state agencies. Then it talks about municipal
12 officials. Now, that is Legislative Law
13 Article 1A.
14 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I'm sorry,
15 Mr. President, I'm looking at page 11 and I
16 don't know where we are. Could you give me a
17 line?
18 SENATOR GRIFFO: No, no, not
19 specifically on page 11. I'm saying that
20 Legislative Law 1A, which describes the term
21 "public official," would apply to a bill that
22 we're passing like this because it deals with
23 public officials.
24 So I guess the question is, would
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1 everything that we have listed here under the
2 standards portion specifically apply to local
3 officials? That's the question. Would they
4 be bound by this too, such as all of the
5 standards provisions that are listed on
6 page 11 that start on line 30 and go all the
7 way through?
8 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well,
9 excuse me. Through you, Mr. President, this
10 is a big piece of legislation. Certainly as
11 far as the ethics portion goes, the ethics
12 oversight bodies only have jurisdiction over
13 state officials.
14 SENATOR GRIFFO: Understood.
15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: But I'm
16 not quite -- if that's the question, then the
17 answer is no.
18 SENATOR GRIFFO: And on the
19 standards portion, such as what event they
20 could attend, the widely attended events, the
21 specific aspects that we talked about, nominal
22 gifts, things like that, would that all apply,
23 then, to local officials also?
24 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through
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1 you, Mr. President, no. The legislative
2 ethics rules regulate the Legislature. The
3 executive ethics rules regulate the executive
4 branch of the state government.
5 Unless there's something very
6 explicit which I'm missing, this is -- the
7 ethics portion of this relates to the state
8 government.
9 SENATOR GRIFFO: Okay. Thank
10 you.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
12 you, Senator Griffo.
13 Senator McDonald.
14 SENATOR McDONALD: Thank you,
15 Mr. President. On the bill.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
17 Senator McDonald on the bill.
18 SENATOR McDONALD: I want to
19 thank the people who brought the bill before
20 us. I wish it was stronger. I wish we got to
21 vote on it last year.
22 It's the beginning. It's
23 necessary. But we cannot allow people to be
24 exempt from participating. There's no special
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1 classes. I'm going to vote for it. I was
2 going to vote for it last year. I was new, I
3 wanted to make sure I worked within the
4 process. It should not be exempt for any
5 occupation, any region, anybody. And that's
6 in the ethics portion.
7 Additionally, I think we've got to
8 start addressing the fundraising portion. One
9 of the creeping realities in American society
10 is it's become a rich person's game:
11 Politics, government, elected officials. If
12 you don't come from a rich family, you don't
13 get to play.
14 I don't like that. I think we
15 should be restricting personal money coming
16 into campaigns just like we do raising money.
17 This is not going to be the House of Lords,
18 like in England. This is for people. Times
19 have got to change.
20 I'm willing to work across the
21 aisle -- many good people over there working
22 with us -- to look at the exemptions, to look
23 at the fundraising, to look at the special
24 category of people. I was told that of the
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1 100 U.S. Senators, they're all millionaires,
2 or close to. What has this country become?
3 Everything we're against.
4 I live in Saratoga County, where
5 the Battle of Saratoga was fought so elitists
6 don't rule -- and now we're slipping into it.
7 So I ask with great passion that we
8 start making this a populist house. Not
9 because of a particular occupation -- a
10 person's occupation should have nothing to do
11 with it -- but to let everybody in here, and
12 to stop controlling politically incorrect
13 people from participating. Working-class
14 people can come in here. And not to wink when
15 somebody comes from that wealthy family, that
16 politically powerful family who can take care
17 of it behind the scenes. Which is becoming so
18 relevant.
19 So there's a lot of challenges.
20 Let's really do it. We've been talking about
21 it for a long time. This is a good beginning,
22 but we've got a very long ways to go.
23 Something is better than nothing right now,
24 but don't applaud too much, because we haven't
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1 got to the red meat. When we do that, then
2 you can applaud.
3 And I'll be happy to show people
4 where I think the red meat is, whether it's
5 ethics or whether it's disclosure or whether
6 it's the whole let's not make this the elitist
7 house that it seems to be becoming.
8 Thank you.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
10 you, Senator McDonald.
11 Are there any other Senators
12 wishing to be heard?
13 Hearing none, the debate is closed.
14 Please ring the bells. The
15 Secretary will ring the bells.
16 Read the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 37. This
18 act shall take effect July 31, 2010.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Call
20 the roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
23 Senator Schneiderman, to explain his vote.
24 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,
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1 Mr. President.
2 I am pleased, ladies and
3 gentlemen -- shhh, shhh, shhh, shhh, shhh.
4 We're done here tonight. I'm pleased we're
5 done here tonight. I'm pleased what we're
6 passing what I think in retrospect will prove
7 to be a truly historic bill to expand ethics,
8 to improve our campaign finance laws, to make
9 this a more transparent and really more
10 effective and efficient Legislature.
11 Let's never forget that in trying
12 times, as in all times, we to spend every
13 taxpayer dollar wisely. Bad government, pay
14 to play, corrupt government costs our
15 constituents money.
16 I'm pleased that everyone -- with
17 everyone's comments tonight, really, even
18 those who have raised concerns about the
19 bill -- and I especially want to note that a
20 lot of my colleagues from the other side of
21 the aisle have spoken with me, have pointed
22 out problems that we have to correct, have
23 offered solutions to the problems. And I hope
24 that this is indicative of what will come this
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1 year.
2 I am confident that virtually
3 everyone in this room on both sides of the
4 aisle wants this to become a more ethical
5 state, a state in which the public has more
6 confidence in this Legislature and in all
7 elected officials. And I really am honored by
8 the fact that a lot of my colleagues on the
9 other side of the aisle are continuing, even
10 as we speak tonight, to point out issues,
11 problems, and raise concerns.
12 I look forward to working with all
13 of you to move to the next stage, pass further
14 reforms to our campaign finance laws, to other
15 aspects of our ethics laws, and to moving this
16 state forward to return to its prior state as
17 really a model for all of America.
18 Thank you, Mr. President. I vote
19 yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank
21 you, Senator Schneiderman.
22 Announce the results.
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 59. Nays,
24 1. Senator Diaz recorded in the negative.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The
2 bill is passed.
3 Senator Klein, that completes the
4 controversial reading of the calendar.
5 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President,
6 may we please return to motions and
7 resolutions. I have a motion on behalf of
8 Senator Huntley.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
10 Returning to motions and resolutions.
11 Senator Klein.
12 SENATOR KLEIN: I move that the
13 following bills be discharged from their
14 respective committees and be recommitted with
15 instructions to strike the enacting clause:
16 Senate Numbers 1175 and 1646.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: So
18 ordered.
19 Senator Klein.
20 SENATOR KLEIN: Would you please
21 recognize Senator Padavan.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
23 Senator Padavan.
24 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes, thank you,
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1 Mr. President.
2 I move that the following bills be
3 discharged from their respective committees
4 and be recommitted with instructions to strike
5 the enacting clause. That's Senate Bill 1505,
6 by Senator DeFrancisco, and 2658, by Senator
7 Volker.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: So
9 ordered.
10 Senator Klein.
11 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, I
12 just want to announce after session there will
13 be an Elections Committee Meeting in Room 332,
14 followed by an Environmental Conservation
15 Committee meeting.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:
17 Immediately after session there will be a
18 meeting of the Elections Committee in
19 Room 332, followed by a meeting of the
20 Environmental Conservation Committee
21 thereafter.
22 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, is
23 there any further business at the desk?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: There
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1 is no further business at the desk,
2 Senator Klein.
3 SENATOR KLEIN: There being none,
4 Mr. President, I move we adjourn until Monday,
5 January 25th, at 3:00 p.m., intervening days
6 to be legislative days.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: There
8 being no further business to come before the
9 Senate, on motion, the Senate stands adjourned
10 until Monday, January 25th, at 3:00 p.m.,
11 intervening days being legislative days.
12 (Whereupon, at 5:31 p.m., the
13 Senate adjourned.)
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