Regular Session - May 30, 2012
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1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
2
3
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
5
6
7
8
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 May 30, 2012
11 3:24 p.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
15
16
17
18 SENATOR JOSEPH GRIFFO, Acting President
19 FRANCIS W. PATIENCE, Secretary
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
3 Senate will come to order.
4 I ask all present to please rise
5 and join with us as we recite the Pledge of
6 Allegiance to our Flag.
7 (Whereupon, the assemblage
8 recited the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:
10 Today's invocation will be offered by the
11 Reverend Peter G. Young, of the Mother Teresa
12 Community here in Albany.
13 Father Young.
14 REVEREND YOUNG: Thank you,
15 Senator.
16 Let us pray.
17 As we enter the season of
18 tornadoes and enter the season of good
19 weather, we pray that we'll be guided by You
20 and be able to be protected by You, O God.
21 Ever-living God, we gather here
22 in this chamber as members representing our
23 constituents, to provide leadership for our
24 New York State citizens. Let Your spirit
25 enlighten our minds and guide our actions,
3178
1 that we may be united in love and bring our
2 fulfillment to the good work of government
3 and to the greater honor and glory of all of
4 our citizens.
5 We ask You this now and forever.
6 Amen.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
8 reading of the Journal.
9 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
10 Tuesday, May 29th, the Senate met pursuant to
11 adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, May 27th,
12 was read and approved. On motion, Senate
13 adjourned.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:
15 Without objection, the Journal stands approved
16 as read.
17 Presentation of petitions.
18 Messages from the Assembly.
19 The Secretary will read.
20 THE SECRETARY: On page 26,
21 Senator Martins moves to discharge, from the
22 Committee on Local Government, Assembly Bill
23 Number 9773 and substitute it for the
24 identical Senate Bill Number 6867, Third
25 Reading Calendar 560.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:
2 Substitution ordered.
3 THE SECRETARY: And on page 43,
4 Senator Ball moves to discharge, from the
5 Committee on Finance, Assembly Bill Number
6 2651B and substitute it for the identical
7 Senate Bill Number 6308A, Third Reading
8 Calendar 805.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:
10 Substitution ordered.
11 Messages from the Governor.
12 Reports of standing committees.
13 Reports of select committees.
14 Communications and reports from
15 state officers.
16 Motions and resolutions.
17 Senator Libous.
18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
19 Mr. President. We've got a little bit of
20 housekeeping today.
21 On behalf of Senator Ritchie, I
22 wish to call up her bill, Senate Print 6774,
23 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at
24 the desk.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
3180
1 Secretary will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 457, by Senator Ritchie, Senate Print 6774, an
4 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law.
5 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
6 now move to reconsider the vote by which this
7 bill was passed.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
9 roll on reconsideration.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
13 hand up the following amendments.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
15 amendments are received.
16 May we have some order in the
17 chamber, please.
18 Senator Libous.
19 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, on
20 behalf of Senator Maziarz, on page 15 I offer the
21 following amendments to Calendar Number 207,
22 Senate Print 277, and ask that said bill retain
23 its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
25 amendments are received, and the bill shall
3181
1 retain its place on third reading.
2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, on
3 behalf of Senator Ritchie, on page 27 I offer the
4 following amendments to Calendar Number 580,
5 Senate Print 3552, and ask that said bill retain
6 its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
8 amendments are received, and the bill shall
9 retain its place on third reading.
10 SENATOR LIBOUS: On behalf of
11 Senator Martins, on page 45 I offer the following
12 amendments to Calendar Number 834, Senate Print
13 Number 7047, and ask that said bill retain its
14 place on the Third Reading Calendar.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
16 amendments are received, and the bill shall
17 retain its place on third reading.
18 Senator Libous.
19 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
20 Mr. President.
21 Again, by Senator Martins, on
22 page 45 I offer the following amendments to
23 Calendar Number 835, Senate Print 7048, and ask
24 that said bill retain its place on the Third
25 Reading Calendar.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
2 amendments are received, and the bill shall
3 retain its place on third reading.
4 SENATOR LIBOUS: And,
5 Mr. President, a very important motion. On
6 behalf of Senator Libous, I move the following
7 bills be discharged from their respective
8 committees and be recommitted with instructions
9 to strike the enacting clause. They would be
10 Senate Prints 3135A, 3138, 3139A, and 3150B.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: So
12 ordered.
13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, at
14 this time would you call on (pause) Senator
15 Breslin.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
17 Breslin.
18 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you,
19 Mr. President. How soon we forget.
20 On behalf of Senator Dilan, on
21 page number 13 I offer the following amendments
22 to Calendar Number 112, Senate Print Number 1340,
23 and ask that said bill retain its place on the
24 Third Reading Calendar.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
3183
1 amendments are received, and the bill shall
2 retain its place on third reading.
3 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you,
4 Mr. President.
5 On behalf of Senator Avella, I move
6 that the following bill be discharged from its
7 respective committee and be recommitted with
8 instructions to strike the enacting clause:
9 Senate Number 2741A.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: So
11 ordered.
12 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you,
13 Mr. President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
15 you, Senator Breslin.
16 Senator Libous.
17 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
18 could you please call on Senator Carlucci at this
19 time.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
21 Carlucci.
22 SENATOR CARLUCCI: Mr. President,
23 on page number 40 I offer the following
24 amendments to Calendar Number 771, Senate Print
25 Number 6447, and ask that the said bill retain
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1 its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
3 amendments are received, and the bill shall
4 retain its place on third reading.
5 Senator Libous.
6 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 Mr. President, at this time there's
9 a resolution at the desk by Senator McDonald.
10 It's Resolution Number 4752. It was previously
11 adopted by the house on May 22nd.
12 May we have the title read, and
13 please call on Senator McDonald for some
14 comments.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
16 Secretary will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: Legislative
18 Resolution Number 4752, by Senator McDonald,
19 honoring Mary Jean Coleman, M.S.W., upon the
20 occasion of her designation as recipient of the
21 inaugural Edgar Francis (Eddie) Reed Annual
22 Suicide Prevention, Advocacy and Leadership
23 Award.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
25 McDonald.
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1 SENATOR McDONALD: Thank you,
2 Mr. President.
3 Today we introduce an inaugural
4 award program in two different areas. The first
5 is an introduction of an inaugural Edgar Francis
6 (Eddie) Reed Suicide Prevention, Advocacy and
7 Leadership Award.
8 As a young man in our area in 1969,
9 growing up as a 17-year-old in a different era,
10 Edgar Francis Reed was a bright, handsome,
11 lovable teenager. He volunteered for his church
12 as altar boy, he loved music, and as the fourth
13 out of five children, he loved to tease his
14 siblings.
15 Yet the darkness of untreated
16 depression and stigma associated with seeking
17 help for mental illness and thoughts of suicide
18 clouded his bright young future. On
19 November 20th of 1979, Eddie took his own life,
20 just three weeks past the age of 17.
21 In 1979, suicide was a sin, marking
22 survivors of a loss to suicide with whispers and
23 silence. In this great State of New York, we
24 have advanced tenfold since 1979. While it is
25 easy to sit up and take notice, what is most
3186
1 difficult is standing up and taking action. With
2 Eddie's award, we celebrate special folks who
3 stood up and took action.
4 Today we honor Mary Jean Coleman,
5 Eddie's sister, who did the what-ifs and turned
6 them into "if I did this," who took no for an
7 answer and turned it around into positive work.
8 Mary Jean Coleman knew that there
9 were answers to be found. She knew because the
10 person she loved, one of the most important
11 people in her life, needed to be saved. And
12 she's been sharing that with our community.
13 There is hope for everybody with
14 these type of problems, and with this wonderful
15 state government that we now have evolved into as
16 far as mental health and disabilities. And she
17 will be the first awardee of this wonderful Eddie
18 Reed Annual Suicide Prevention, Advocacy and
19 Leadership Award.
20 And if she would stand up, please.
21 This is our awardee, Mary Jean
22 Coleman. And thank you for your service to your
23 state and to your community and to the people
24 that you deal with every day. God bless you.
25 Thank you.
3187
1 (Standing ovation.)
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: We
3 welcome Mary Jean Coleman to the chamber today
4 and appreciate your presence.
5 As stated, the resolution was
6 adopted on May 22nd.
7 Senator Libous.
8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
9 Mr. President.
10 There is another resolution at the
11 desk by Senator McDonald. It is Resolution
12 Number 4753. This too was previously adopted by
13 this house on May 22nd. Could we please have the
14 title read, and could you call on Senator
15 McDonald.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
17 Secretary will read.
18 THE SECRETARY: Legislative
19 Resolution Number 4753, by Senator McDonald,
20 honoring Glenn Liebman upon the occasion of his
21 designation as recipient of the inaugural Thomas
22 P. Morahan Annual Leadership Award in Mental
23 Health and Developmental Disabilities.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
25 McDonald.
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1 SENATOR McDONALD: Thank you,
2 Mr. President.
3 This is also an introduction of an
4 inaugural award named after one of our most
5 beloved colleagues, the Thomas P. Morahan Annual
6 Leadership Award in Mental Health and
7 Developmental Disabilities.
8 Some words about the great
9 Senator. He had consistency and courage. He
10 advocated on behalf of individuals with serious
11 emotional disturbances. He was a father, a
12 grandfather, a husband, a citizen who cared about
13 his community.
14 We are going to be giving this
15 award to another individual very similar. But
16 before we do, we have two very special guests
17 visiting us today that Senator Morahan would be
18 proud of -- and I know some of my colleagues may
19 even know these people. We have daughters
20 Maureen and Irene Morahan.
21 Please stand up.
22 This award is based on the work
23 that your father did to recognize the importance
24 of mental health and developmental disabilities
25 in our society. He was a trailblazing
3189
1 State Senator who cared a great deal, and we're
2 honored to recognize him in the award of this
3 every year. Thank you so much to you, your
4 family, and your wonderful father. May he rest
5 in peace.
6 We will be honoring today Glenn
7 Liebman. Since 2004, Glenn has been the CEO of
8 the Mental Health Association of New York State.
9 Many of us have dealt with Glenn.
10 Mr. Liebman has been a leader in
11 both policy and legislative issues transforming
12 New York's mental health system, including mental
13 health parity, adult home reform, medication
14 accessibility issues, as well as healthcare
15 enhancements for direct-care staff and mental
16 health programs.
17 In a state of almost 20 million
18 people, there's very few families that are not
19 impacted by these type of issues. And I can't
20 think of a better person who has dedicated his
21 professional career, okay, as well as his own
22 personal time to helping these people out.
23 Glenn, if you would stand up. And
24 you have your wife with you, I believe,
25 Mrs. Liebman.
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1 Thank you so much.
2 (Standing ovation.)
3 SENATOR McDONALD: Thank you,
4 Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
6 you, Senator McDonald.
7 We welcome and congratulate Glenn
8 Liebman.
9 And we also welcome Irene and
10 Maureen Morahan back to the chamber where their
11 father was such as outstanding and exceptional
12 Senator. We thank you for your presence here
13 today.
14 Senator Libous.
15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
16 Mr. President.
17 We also have a resolution at the
18 desk by Senator Farley, Number 4766. This too
19 was previously adopted on May 22nd. May we have
20 the title read, and could you please call on
21 Senator Farley.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
23 Secretary will read.
24 THE SECRETARY: Legislative
25 Resolution Number 4766, by Senator Farley,
3191
1 honoring Schenectady High School and its
2 John Sayles School of Fine Arts and their bands
3 upon earning honors at the Music Festivals.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
5 Farley.
6 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you very
7 much, Mr. President.
8 We're very pleased to have in the
9 gallery today the band members from the
10 Schenectady High School and the Johns Sayles
11 School of Fine Arts.
12 The concert band, the jazz
13 ensemble, and the marching band are here today,
14 and their band director, Joel Servant. All three
15 bands competed in the Music Festivals, which was
16 held on April 19th through the 22nd in
17 Williamsburg, Virginia.
18 This was the first competition of
19 this caliber for these bands, and they performed
20 exceptionally well. The concert band and the
21 jazz ensemble both earned first place and a
22 superior rating. The marching band earned a
23 third place and an excellent rating. The concert
24 band percussion section, the jazz ensemble rhythm
25 section, and the marching band's drum line also
3192
1 received special recognition.
2 I was pleased to sponsor this
3 resolution in the Senate recognizing their
4 success, which was adopted on May 22nd.
5 It is a sincere pleasure of mine to
6 welcome these musicians to the Capitol and
7 congratulate them on a job well done.
8 Schenectady High School and the entire community
9 is very proud of this outstanding achievement.
10 And I'd ask that you stand up.
11 There they are. Congratulations.
12 (Applause.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
14 you, Senator Farley.
15 And again, we welcome and
16 congratulate the Schenectady High School bands
17 upon earning this recognition at the Music
18 Festivals. Thanks for being here today.
19 The resolution was previously
20 adopted on May 22nd.
21 Senator Libous.
22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, at
23 this time could you please recognize
24 Senator Breslin for a statement.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
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1 Breslin.
2 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you,
3 Mr. President.
4 For many in this chamber and many
5 people in the Assembly, we're well aware that
6 today was the Seventh Annual Turkish Cultural Day
7 in the Well of the LOB. Many of us enjoyed
8 Turkish food and Turkish culture, which was
9 exhibited in large measure by a group of
10 wonderful dancers that are off to the left.
11 And those Turkish dancers are part
12 of the Turkish Cultural Center in Albany,
13 New York, one of 13 across the state. And
14 they're here, their names are -- and correct me
15 if I mispronounce them a little bit -- Nur Gul,
16 Betul Yucedal, Yagmur Cicek, Damla Cicek, Yasemin
17 Menekse, Ceren Muslim, Eda Ercan, Vildan Ulukaya,
18 and their coach, Reyhan Cicek.
19 And they're of course joined here
20 by the director of our cultural center here in
21 Albany, Veysel Ucan.
22 And you know, all of us who have
23 dealt with the Turkish community both locally and
24 in the other cultural centers across this state
25 have seen a dialogue between Americans and the
3194
1 Turkish community that is unparalleled. The
2 Turkish community has reached out to share with
3 us their customs and ideals, and at the same time
4 we have been able to share our American values
5 with them. And I think there's an intertwining
6 of the values of both countries.
7 And we applaud you for what you've
8 done in reaching out and having classes, English
9 classes at the Cultural Center, and culture
10 classes, and weekends for kids and educational
11 programs for adults, summer camps, seminars,
12 annual events, all of it wonderful and all of it
13 bringing together our cultures to eventually form
14 into one.
15 And thank you very, very much for
16 being here and sharing the cultural values and
17 traditions with us.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
19 you, Senator Breslin.
20 (Applause.)
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: We
22 welcome Veysel Ucan and all of the Turkish
23 Cultural Center delegation that are here today.
24 Thank you for being with us.
25 Senator Stavisky.
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1 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you,
2 Mr. President.
3 I too want to welcome our friends
4 from the Turkish Cultural Center.
5 I am proud to represent
6 Queens County, where we have a very active
7 Turkish Cultural Center also. And the outreach,
8 as Senator Breslin described it -- and I thank
9 Senator Breslin for introducing this group -- the
10 Turkish Cultural Center reaches out and makes us
11 feel part of one large community.
12 They have friendship dinners; we
13 had a friendship dinner in Flushing several weeks
14 ago. They have dinners in Albany where we're
15 able to discuss issues and learn about each
16 other's culture. And it's just a wonderful
17 opportunity to be part of the larger community.
18 So again, I welcome Veysel Ucan.
19 My pronunciation -- I learned my Turkish in from
20 Senator Breslin.
21 (Laughter.)
22 SENATOR STAVISKY: But we welcome
23 you nevertheless.
24 And the fact that you brought young
25 people I think is so important, because you're
3196
1 learning not only about your heritage but about
2 government. And this is what government is
3 about, and that's welcoming people so that we all
4 work together in harmony.
5 Thank you.
6 (Applause.)
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
8 Espaillat.
9 SENATOR ESPAILLAT: Thank you,
10 Mr. President.
11 I also want to rise to congratulate
12 the Turkish Cultural Center and their fine
13 afternoon that they had here in Albany and the
14 young ladies that came in their beautiful
15 attire.
16 And this is specifically special to
17 me because one of the visitors, Yakup Gul, is a
18 former intern when I was in the other chamber.
19 And he's here with his beautiful daughter.
20 And I wanted to thank them for
21 their presence here, they come every year, and
22 Veysel Ucan for your leadership. And it's just a
23 wonderful afternoon and a wonderful event that
24 we're happy to share this culture with you.
25 Thank you so much for being here.
3197
1 (Applause.)
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
3 you, Senator Espaillat.
4 Senator Libous.
5 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
6 have a motion on behalf of Senator DeFrancisco.
7 I want to call up his bill, Print Number 2899,
8 recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the
9 desk.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
11 Secretary will read.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 332, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 2899,
14 an act to amend the New York State Printing and
15 Public Documents Law.
16 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
17 now move to reconsider the vote by which this
18 bill was passed.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
20 roll on reconsideration.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
23 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
24 hand up the following amendments.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
3198
1 amendments are received.
2 Senator Libous.
3 SENATOR LIBOUS: There will be an
4 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in
5 Room 332, an immediate meeting of the Rules
6 Committee in Room 332.
7 So the Senate will stand at ease
8 temporarily.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: There
10 will be an immediate meeting of the Senate Rules
11 Committee in Room 332.
12 The Senate stands at ease.
13 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease
14 at 3:46 p.m.)
15 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at
16 4:08 p.m.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
18 Senate will come to order.
19 Senator Libous.
20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, at
21 this time may we return to reports of standing
22 committees. I believe there is a report of the
23 Rules Committee at the desk.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Reports
25 of standing committees.
3199
1 The Secretary will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos,
3 from the Committee on Rules, reports the
4 following bills:
5 Senate Print 502A, by Senator Diaz,
6 an act to amend the Elder Law;
7 Senate 4726, by Senator Kennedy, an
8 act to amend the Penal Law;
9 Senate 4855A, by Senator
10 Montgomery, an act to amend the State Finance
11 Law;
12 Senate 6237, by Senator Diaz, an
13 act to amend the Correction Law;
14 Senate 6292, by Senator Peralta, an
15 act to amend the Penal Law;
16 Senate 7448, by Senator Skelos, an
17 act to amend the Tax Law;
18 Senate 7449A, by Senator LaValle,
19 an act to amend the Tax Law;
20 And Senate 7490, by Senator Robach,
21 an act to amend Chapter 557 of the Laws of 2001.
22 All bills reported direct to third
23 reading.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
25 Libous.
3200
1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
2 move to accept the report of the Rules Committee.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: All in
4 favor of accepting the report of the
5 Rules Committee signify by saying aye.
6 (Response of "Aye.")
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:
8 Opposed?
9 (No response.)
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
11 Rules report is accepted.
12 Senator Libous.
13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, at
14 this time could we have the noncontroversial
15 reading of the active list, please.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
17 Secretary will read.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 67, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 525A, an
20 at to amend the General Business Law.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
22 last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
24 act shall take effect immediately.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
3201
1 roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
4 Squadron to explain his vote.
5 SENATOR SQUADRON: Thank you,
6 Mr. President.
7 This is a bill that in the past
8 I've spoken about and had concerns about, and I
9 want to thank and commend the sponsor for working
10 collaboratively and across the aisle on the
11 bill.
12 There were some definitions in this
13 bill that really raised concerns for me in the
14 past, we worked together on it, and I think this
15 bill is now really tightly drawn and very
16 effective. The sponsor's both goals and also
17 process is one that I am grateful for.
18 I will vote yes and urge my
19 colleagues to do the same.
20 Thank you, Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
22 Squadron to be recorded in the affirmative.
23 Senator Fuschillo to explain his
24 vote.
25 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you very
3202
1 much, Mr. President.
2 I just too want to rise and thank
3 Senator Squadron for his assistance. This is a
4 bill that previously came to the floor. I laid
5 it aside, at the request of Senator Squadron, to
6 work with him and tighten up the language.
7 But this bill, the original intent
8 to protect consumers from items either that
9 either are stolen and resold at flea markets, is
10 a great concern because of the type of products
11 and the exposure that they have to the elements
12 and to the sun could be potentially hazardous to
13 the health of those who purchase these items,
14 such as baby foods and other cosmetics.
15 So I want to thank Senator Squadron
16 again for his support. We do have the agreement
17 of the Assembly. And I appreciate the support of
18 this house.
19 Thank you very much.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
21 Squadron to be recorded in the affirmative.
22 Announce the results.
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57. Nays,
24 1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
3203
1 is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 99, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 1411, an act
4 to amend the Penal Law.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
6 last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect on the first of November.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
14 is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 175, by Senator Lanza, Senate Print 4892A, an act
17 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
19 last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect on the 90th day.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
23 roll.
24 (The Secretary called the roll.)
25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
3204
1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
2 is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 221, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6162A, an
5 act to authorize the assessor.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
7 last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Announce
14 the results.
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55. Nays,
16 3. Senators Bonacic, Larkin and O'Mara recorded
17 in the negative.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
19 is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 225, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6297B, an
22 act to authorize the assessor.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
24 last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3205
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56. Nays,
6 2. Senators Bonacic and O'Mara recorded in the
7 negative.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
9 is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 255, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 937, an
12 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security
13 Law.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
15 last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect on the 90th day.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
22 Calendar Number 255, those recorded in the
23 negative are Senators Farley, Libous, Little,
24 Montgomery, O'Mara and Robach.
25 Ayes, 52. Nays, 6.
3206
1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
2 is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 299, by Senator Robach --
5 SENATOR BRESLIN: Lay it aside.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Lay it
7 aside.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 351, by Senator Gallivan, Senate Print 6061A, an
10 act to amend the Highway Law.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
12 last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
20 is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 388, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 6395C,
23 an act to amend the Education Law.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
25 last section.
3207
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 422, by Senator Carlucci, Senate Print 4815, an
11 act to amend the State Administrative Procedure
12 Act.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
14 last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
18 roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
21 Carlucci to explain his vote.
22 SENATOR CARLUCCI: Thank you,
23 Mr. President.
24 This is a common-sense piece of
25 legislation that really helps to bring New York
3208
1 State government into the 21st century by simply
2 allowing state agencies to accept electronic
3 permits.
4 Right now the Department of State
5 has that capability. They've had that capability
6 since 2000. What this legislation does is it
7 simply allows other state agencies to do the
8 same. This will dramatically lower costs for
9 state agencies operating as well as lower costs
10 for businesses trying to do business in the
11 New York State.
12 So, Mr. President, I support this
13 legislation and thank my colleagues for doing the
14 same.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
16 Carlucci to be recorded in the affirmative.
17 Announce the results.
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57. Nays,
19 1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
21 is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 502, by Senator Flanagan --
24 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay the bill
25 aside for the day.
3209
1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Lay it
2 aside for the day.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 560, substituted earlier today by Member of the
5 Assembly Weisenberg, Assembly Print Number 9773,
6 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
8 last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
12 roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
16 is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: On page 27,
18 Senator Seward moves to discharge, from the
19 Committee on Insurance, Assembly Bill Number
20 8627B and substitute it for the identical Senate
21 Bill Number 2874B, Third Reading Calendar 566.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
23 substitution is so ordered.
24 The Secretary will read.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3210
1 566, by Member of the Assembly Gunther, Assembly
2 Print 8627B, an act to amend the Insurance Law.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
4 last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
8 roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57. Nays,
11 1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
13 is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 567, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 6463, an act
16 to amend the Insurance Law.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
18 last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
20 act shall take effect on the 30th day.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
3211
1 is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 568, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 6740A, an
4 act to amend the Insurance Law.
5 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay it aside for
6 the day.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Lay the
8 bill aside for the day.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 569, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 6810A, an
11 act to amend the Insurance Law.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
13 last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Announce
20 the results.
21 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
22 Calendar Number 569, those recorded in the
23 negative are Senators Addabbo, Avella, Duane,
24 Espaillat, Gianaris, Hassell-Thompson, Krueger,
25 Peralta, Perkins, Rivera, Sampson, Serrano,
3212
1 Smith, Squadron, Stavisky and Stewart-Cousins.
2 Also Senator Montgomery.
3 Ayes, 41. Nays, 17.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
5 is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 571, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 486B, an act
8 to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
10 last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
14 roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
18 is passed.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 610, by Senator Ranzenhofer, Senate Print 6690,
21 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
23 last section.
24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
25 act shall take effect immediately.
3213
1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
6 is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 633, by Senator Ritchie, Senate Print 6962, an
9 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
11 last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect on the 60th day.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
19 is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 641, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 3676, an act
22 to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
24 last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3214
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55. Nays,
6 3. Senators Duane, Krueger and Rivera recorded
7 in the negative.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
9 is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 668, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 4009, an
12 act to amend the Executive Law.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
14 last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
18 roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Announce
21 the results.
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54. Nays,
23 4. Senators Krueger, Little, Perkins and Rivera
24 recorded in the negative.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
3215
1 is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 671, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 4255, an
4 act to amend the Public Health Law.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
6 last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
14 is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 674, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 515A, an
17 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
19 last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
23 roll.
24 (The Secretary called the roll.)
25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
3216
1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
2 is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 681, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1449C, an
5 act to amend the Correction Law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
7 last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
9 act shall take effect on the first of July.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57. Nays,
14 1. Senator Montgomery recorded in the negative.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
16 is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 696, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, Senate Print
19 6634A, an act to amend the Local Finance Law.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
21 last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
25 roll.
3217
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
4 is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 713, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 7267, an act
7 to amend the Penal Law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
9 last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This
11 act shall take effect on the first of November.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54. Nays,
16 4. Senators Duane, Hassell-Thompson, Montgomery
17 and Perkins recorded in the negative.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
19 is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 715, by Senator Young, Senate Print 755, an act
22 to amend the Private Housing Finance Law.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
24 last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
3218
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
7 is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 728, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 4393A, an
10 act to amend the Executive Law.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
12 last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57. Nays,
19 1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
21 is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 780, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 7217, an
24 act to amend the Public Authorities Law.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
3219
1 last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
8 Krueger to explain her vote.
9 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you,
10 Mr. President.
11 On behalf of constituents of mine
12 and those people living in Queens, Bronx and
13 Manhattan, the three boroughs connected by the
14 now Robert F. Kennedy Bridge -- also known as the
15 Triborough Bridge and Triborough Bridge and
16 Tunnel Authority -- if you live in those
17 communities, suddenly to discover there are
18 massive signs, perhaps with lights on them going
19 all day, all night, reflecting into your home,
20 reflecting everything that is going on and
21 impacting the aesthetics of your community, the
22 light pollution that those of us who live in
23 urban settings face, you would understand why you
24 cannot supersede local communities'
25 decision-making or local municipalities' right to
3220
1 say no to this kind of signage.
2 So I feel very strongly that this
3 should not become the law in New York State.
4 Thank you.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
6 Krueger to be recorded in the negative.
7 Announce the results.
8 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
9 Calendar Number 780, those recorded in the
10 negative are Senators Avella, Duane, Espaillat,
11 Gianaris, Hassell-Thompson, Krueger, Montgomery,
12 Perkins, Rivera, Serrano, Squadron, Stavisky and
13 Stewart-Cousins. Also Senator Kennedy.
14 Ayes, 44. Nays, 14.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
16 is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 795, by Senator Libous, Senate Print --
19 SENATOR BRESLIN: Lay it aside,
20 please.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Lay it
22 aside.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 805, substituted earlier today by Member of the
25 Assembly Jacobs, Assembly Print Number 2651B, an
3221
1 act to amend the Social Services Law.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
3 last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect on the 180th day.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
11 is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 806, by Senator Gallivan, Senate Print 6544, an
14 act to amend the Executive Law.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
16 last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
24 is passed.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3222
1 817, by Senator Young --
2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay it aside
3 temporarily.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
5 will be laid aside temporarily.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 825, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5504C, an
8 act creating.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
10 last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 10. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
14 roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
18 is passed.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 833, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 7000A, an
21 act creating.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
23 last section.
24 THE SECRETARY: Section 10. This
25 act shall take effect immediately.
3223
1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
6 is passed.
7 Senator Libous, with the exception
8 of the temporary lay-aside, that will complete
9 the noncontroversial reading of the calendar.
10 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
11 Mr. President. You've done a fine job.
12 Now, Mr. President, could we go to
13 the supplemental calendar, 49A. And if we could
14 have the noncontroversial reading of Calendar
15 Number 969 by Senator Skelos.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
17 Secretary will read Calendar Number 969, by
18 Senator Skelos, on Supplemental Calendar 49A.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 969, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 7448, an act
21 to amend the Tax Law.
22 SENATOR BRESLIN: Lay it aside.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Lay it
24 aside.
25 Senator Libous.
3224
1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
2 Mr. President.
3 Could we now have the controversial
4 reading of Calendar Number 969, by Senator
5 Skelos.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
7 Secretary will ring the bell.
8 The Secretary will read.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 969, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 7448, an act
11 to amend the Tax Law.
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Explanation.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
14 Breslin, why do you rise?
15 SENATOR BRESLIN: Mr. President, I
16 believe there's an amendment at the desk. I ask
17 that the reading of the amendment be waived and
18 that Senator Espaillat be allowed to be heard on
19 the amendment.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
21 Breslin, upon review, and in accordance with
22 Section 4(B) of Rule 6, I find the amendment not
23 to be germane to the bill before the house.
24 SENATOR BRESLIN: Mr. President, I
25 appeal the ruling of the chair and ask that
3225
1 Senator Espaillat be allowed to be heard on the
2 appeal.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: There
4 has been a request to appeal the ruling of the
5 chair. I will recognize Senator Espaillat to
6 make that appeal.
7 SENATOR ESPAILLAT: Thank you,
8 Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
10 Espaillat, I would ask you, just in accordance
11 with the procedures, to keep it germane to the
12 appeal.
13 SENATOR ESPAILLAT: Absolutely.
14 Thank you, Mr. President.
15 My amendment to Senator Skelos's
16 bill is germane for the following reason. The
17 amendment deals with the same subject matter as
18 the underlying bill in the following respects.
19 Both pieces of legislation seek to spur business
20 development and the creation of jobs in this
21 state.
22 The amendment that I offer today
23 strengthens the Majority Leader's job-creation
24 bill by raising the statutory minimum wage from
25 $7.25 to $8.50 per hour beginning January 1,
3226
1 2013, and indexing further increases to the
2 minimum wage rate to reflect the rate of
3 inflation.
4 When Congress enacted the federal
5 Fair Labor Standards Act in 1938 and prescribed a
6 minimum wage, it was intended to ensure that
7 low-wage workers should earn, at minimum, a
8 livable wage. Over the years, however, data
9 shows that the federal government's actions to
10 preserve this standard against the erosive power
11 of inflation have fallen decades behind.
12 The annual income for a
13 minimum-wage worker in New York State has not
14 exceeded the federal poverty threshold since
15 1979. Furthermore, the annual gap between the
16 state stated minimum wage and the effective
17 minimum wage continues to grow steadily.
18 In 2010 there were over 264,000
19 New Yorkers at or below the minimum wage, many of
20 whom reside within the New York City metropolitan
21 area, the area ranked as having the highest cost
22 of living in the nation, with a relative cost of
23 living that far exceeds the national average. It
24 is important that the minimum-wage standards in
25 this state reflect this very important fact.
3227
1 Our state's lowest-paid workers
2 have experienced a decline of over one-third of
3 the value of their weekly paycheck in the past
4 42 years. At $7.25 per hour, New York's minimum
5 wage rate translates into just over $15,000 per
6 year for a full-time, year-round worker, well
7 below the federal poverty levels for a family of
8 three.
9 The guarantee of a livable wage not
10 only benefits workers and their families, but
11 also it is a direct benefit for the state's
12 overall economic development. Lower-wage earners
13 are more likely to reinvest any disposable income
14 into their local businesses. Greater consumer
15 spending and demand is good for business and
16 grows jobs.
17 In 2011 a study by the Federal
18 Reserve Bank of Chicago estimated that a $1 hike
19 in the minimum-wage rate results in between
20 $2,800 and $3,200 in additional spending by each
21 recipient family, far exceeding the amount of the
22 wage increase.
23 Minimum-wage earners will by
24 necessity spend a wage-rate increase immediately,
25 and largely at the local level, by patronizing
3228
1 local businesses and using local services.
2 This job development measure is
3 exactly what the state needs. Nearly 800,000
4 workers across the state would benefit from a
5 statewide minimum-wage-rate increase, including
6 10,800 workers in Broome County, 48,200 workers
7 in Erie County, 36,600 workers in Monroe County,
8 12,400 workers in Dutchess County, 126,500
9 workers in Long Island, 72,500 workers in the
10 Lower Hudson Valley, and 352,000 workers in
11 New York City.
12 This minimum wage increase is what
13 an overwhelming majority of New Yorkers want to
14 see get done right now, Mr. President.
15 And just to show you some of the
16 other states and what they're doing, for example,
17 the State of Illinois, which ranks 20th insofar
18 as the cost of living is concerned, has a minimum
19 wage of $8.25. The State of Ohio, which ranked
20 13th as having one of the lowest costs of living,
21 has a minimum wage of $7.70. The State of
22 Michigan, which ranks 18th as one of the states
23 with the lowest cost of living, has a minimum
24 wage of $7.40.
25 This situation is unacceptable.
3229
1 When the minimum wage was established by the
2 federal government right in the middle of the
3 Great Depression, President Roosevelt saw it as a
4 tool to bring back economic development across
5 the United States. We should lead the way in the
6 same direction here in New York State. The
7 Empire State has been a state noted for its
8 leadership across the United States.
9 And certainly making $7.25 an hour
10 is not really acceptable for any New Yorker.
11 Those people are living in poverty. Many of them
12 are having a hard time making ends meet. We are
13 a better state than that. And there is no better
14 economic development plan than increasing the
15 minimum wage, Mr. President.
16 Thank you.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
18 you, Senator Espaillat.
19 All those in favor of overruling
20 the ruling of the chair signify by saying aye.
21 (Response of "Aye.")
22 SENATOR BRESLIN: A show of hands,
23 please, Mr. President.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: A show
25 of hands has been requested and so designated.
3230
1 Announce the results.
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 22.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
4 ruling of the chair is sustained.
5 Senator Breslin, why do you rise?
6 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 I believe there's another amendment
9 at the desk. I ask that the reading of the
10 amendment be waived and that Senator
11 Stewart-Cousins be allowed to be heard on the
12 amendment.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
14 Breslin, upon review, in accordance with Rule 6,
15 Section 4(B), I rule that the amendment before
16 the house is nongermane.
17 SENATOR BRESLIN: Mr. President, I
18 appeal the decision of the chair and ask that
19 Senator Stewart-Cousins be allowed to be heard on
20 the appeal.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: An
22 appeal of the ruling of the chair has been made,
23 and I will recognize Senator Stewart-Cousins for
24 that appeal.
25 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Thank
3231
1 you, Mr. President.
2 My amendment to Senator Skelos's
3 bill, Mr. President, is germane for the following
4 reasons. The amendment deals with the same
5 subject matter as the underlying bill in the
6 following respects. Both pieces of legislation
7 seek to spur business development and the
8 creation of jobs in this state.
9 The amendment that I offer today
10 strengthens the Majority Leader's job-creation
11 bill by protect the employability of unemployed
12 workers. The amendment that I'm speaking about
13 mirrors national legislation, because there's
14 been a disturbing trend nationally that sees
15 employers openly stating that unemployed people
16 in many cases need not apply.
17 My amendment would make it unlawful
18 for any employer, employment or licensing agency
19 to refuse to hire or employ a job seeker or
20 otherwise discriminate against an individual in
21 compensation or in terms, conditions, or
22 privileges of employment because of the
23 individual's unemployment status.
24 According to the U.S. Department of
25 Labor, the unemployment rate in New York State
3232
1 hovers around 8.5 percent, and the average length
2 of time that an individual has been unemployed
3 has become longer.
4 Because the unemployment rate and
5 the length of time to find a new job is at an
6 all-time high, the practice of excluding the
7 unemployed has become a concern for job seekers
8 who are laid off through no fault of their own.
9 Adoption of this amendment will
10 ensure equal opportunity for all New Yorkers who
11 are ready and willing to work. Regardless of
12 their current employment status, they should be
13 able to obtain work in this state.
14 So I would suggest that this is
15 germane indeed.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
17 you, Senator Stewart-Cousins.
18 I'm asking the question, all those
19 in favor of overruling the ruling of the chair
20 signify by saying aye.
21 (Response of "Aye.")
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:
23 Opposed?
24 Senator Breslin.
25 SENATOR BRESLIN: I request a show
3233
1 of hands, Mr. President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: A show
3 of hands is so ordered.
4 Announce the results.
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 22.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
7 ruling of the chair is sustained.
8 We are on the bill in chief. I'll
9 recognize Senator Skelos.
10 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you,
11 Mr. President.
12 Today, under our leadership, the
13 State Senate is acting on the most pressing issue
14 facing New York's middle-class families: The
15 need to help the private sector create new jobs
16 and economic opportunity across the state.
17 Whether it's in Buffalo or
18 Binghamton, Rockland County or the Far Rockaways,
19 sit down with a constituent for five minutes and
20 inevitably they'll talk about jobs, unease over
21 keeping the jobs they have or concern over the
22 job they just lost.
23 Many New Yorkers have even given up
24 looking for a job. And who can blame them,
25 especially when you consider New York ranks 49th
3234
1 out of 50 states when it comes to business tax
2 climate. Three-point-four million residents left
3 New York State between 2000 and 2010, the most of
4 any state in our country.
5 When we enacted New York SUNY 2020
6 and eliminated the MTA payroll tax for thousands
7 of businesses and all schools, it was a good
8 start. I thank Governor Cuomo for helping us get
9 that done. But more has to be done.
10 Our New York jobs program is very
11 simple. We provide tax credits for businesses
12 that create new jobs. We eliminate taxes on
13 manufacturers. We provide a 20 corporate tax cut
14 for small businesses and a 10 percent reduction
15 in their income taxes. We accelerate the
16 elimination of the job-killing 18-a energy tax
17 assessment.
18 Now, some in Albany have said that
19 we cannot afford to pass this legislation to help
20 businesses create jobs. I don't believe we
21 cannot do it. We must pass this legislation so
22 that New York State can move forward in
23 private-sector job creation.
24 Our New Jobs-New York legislation
25 would cost just $130 million this year, but it
3235
1 would send an unmistakable message that New York
2 is serious about creating jobs, serious about
3 helping businesses succeed and grow, and serious
4 about helping middle-class families settle, stay,
5 and prosper right here in New York.
6 I urge all of my colleagues on both
7 sides of the aisle to support this common-sense
8 legislation.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
10 you, Senator Skelos.
11 Senator DeFrancisco.
12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, I'd
13 just like to talk specifically about a few of
14 these items that are in the bill, the first of
15 which deals with eliminating taxes on
16 manufacturers. I think all -- and that's the
17 corporate franchise tax. And, if it's an
18 individual-owned manufacturer, the individual
19 taxes as well, the personal income taxes.
20 Everybody knows, and they've heard
21 it for years and know that it's true, that
22 manufacturing is extremely important part of any
23 economy. And if you have manufacturing, then the
24 spin-off businesses are such that you get
25 multiple benefits and multiple job growth when
3236
1 the manufacturer is doing well -- all the
2 suppliers provide product to that manufacturer,
3 and they're hiring people as well.
4 So this is an important aspect of
5 this particular package. And it will promote new
6 employment in manufacturing, and that's one part
7 of this particular bill that we have before us.
8 When this is entirely phased in, it
9 will result in about $495 million of tax relief
10 for manufacturers. In the first year, it will be
11 $114 million.
12 And this is the way to go. Senator
13 Skelos mentioned about the loss of people in the
14 State of New York. One of the reasons is that we
15 don't have the jobs, we're not providing a
16 climate as good as we can to allow for businesses
17 actually to make money -- which is not a bad
18 thing, despite what you hear from some. If they
19 make money, they can actually hire people, and
20 those hired people pay taxes.
21 Secondly, there's a 20 percent tax
22 cut for small businesses. And small businesses
23 are generally those who earn less than $290,000
24 in net income. And this 20 percent reduction is
25 in the tax rate for these small businesses. And
3237
1 it would be an immediate shot in the arm for
2 those small businesses to also make money, hire
3 employees, and grow. And that's always a good
4 thing.
5 And unfortunately, some of our
6 plans and some of our incentives in the past have
7 really not provided enough for small businesses,
8 and this would be an excellent addition to our
9 tax structure; namely, a reduction, a reduction
10 in taxes for small businesses by 20 percent.
11 Also, we have a small business jobs
12 credit. And if they don't use the entire credit
13 to offset their income taxes, a balance would be
14 refundable. And it provides a credit of
15 10 percent of business income for about 800,000
16 small businesses. And those small businesses are
17 those which have at least one employee and have
18 business income of less than $250,000.
19 And once again, we need more help
20 for small businesses so that they can be
21 successful, create jobs, and provide more revenue
22 for our State of New York so we can provide for
23 all of the needed services that New York
24 residents seek and should be able to receive if
25 we had the income to do that.
3238
1 So this is part of the bill, and
2 others will speak on other aspects of it.
3 Thank you, Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
5 you, Senator DeFrancisco.
6 Senator Maziarz.
7 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you very
8 much, Mr. President.
9 I rise to support this
10 legislation. And I particularly want to address
11 what I consider to be the most important part of
12 that, and that's the rollback of the 18-a
13 assessment.
14 We all know the 18-a assessment was
15 a tax instituted in the 2009 budget. The purpose
16 of that 18-a assessment, that tax on all of the
17 electricity and natural gas in the State of
18 New York, was to fund the regulatory agencies of
19 New York State, the Public Service Commission and
20 the Department of Public Service.
21 But instead, instead -- and I think
22 at the time -- and I well realize that not
23 everyone who's here now was back here then --
24 that everyone realized that this money would be
25 swept into the General Fund. That was a
3239
1 $600-million-a-year tax on utility ratepayers in
2 the State of New York that went clearly into the
3 state's General Fund. It didn't go to fund the
4 Public Service commission or any energy-related
5 issue.
6 Prior to 2009, New York already had
7 the highest energy costs in the country, and the
8 imposition of 18-a only made that situation
9 worse. Everyone from seniors living on fixed
10 incomes to entrepreneurs looking to start a small
11 business were hurt. And because this was a flat
12 amendment, everybody paid the same amount, one
13 could argue that working families were hit the
14 hardest.
15 Today, and I think in a very
16 positive way, we're taking two major steps in
17 reversing the damage of the increased 18-a
18 assessment. First, it ends the 2 percent
19 assessment one year early, 2013 instead of 2014.
20 And second, the budget language in
21 2009 allowed for a permanent increase of this tax
22 from one-third of a percent to 1 percent. And
23 this bill repeals that permanent increase,
24 keeping the overall assessment at one-third of
25 1 percent.
3240
1 Eliminating the 18-a assessment is
2 an important part of job creation in this state.
3 Companies will locate here if they know that they
4 can get a cheap source of energy. And we have
5 it, particularly with the Governor's Energy
6 Highway that he's proposed in the state budget
7 and in the State of the State message.
8 Lowering the price of energy means
9 more jobs for the state. I wholeheartedly
10 support this legislation.
11 Thank you, Mr. President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
13 you, Senator Maziarz.
14 Senator Zeldin.
15 SENATOR ZELDIN: I rise support in
16 support of the brewers production credit and
17 label registration credit.
18 In response to a recent New York
19 State Supreme Court decision, New York State
20 craft breweries lost out on a tax exemption which
21 was greatly benefiting their industries. This
22 particular part of the legislation helps support
23 New York State companies who hire New York State
24 employees.
25 There are two components. The
3241
1 first is a tax credit for 14 cents on each gallon
2 of beer, up to 6.2 million gallons of beer, or
3 200,000 barrels. The second part is a tax credit
4 for the label fees of $150.
5 Now is the time for us to stand
6 with the New York State craft brewing industry,
7 which is thriving. Over the course of the last
8 decade, while other industries were faltering and
9 jobs have been lost, this is a particular
10 industry that has been growing. There are dozens
11 of craft brewing companies all across this state
12 that are investing back into the industry and
13 growing jobs and people are paying taxes to our
14 state. There are many more others that are
15 coming online now.
16 So this sends a very important
17 message that we stand behind the New York craft
18 brewing industry. It helps correct the result of
19 that recent Supreme Court decision. And I'm glad
20 to support this entire package.
21 I specifically would like to thank
22 Senate Majority Leader Dean Skelos for including
23 this in this piece of legislation. And thank
24 you, Mr. President, for your leadership on this
25 issue as well.
3242
1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
2 you, Senator Zeldin.
3 Senator Robach.
4 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes,
5 Mr. President, I too rise to support this.
6 In addition to the Business
7 Council, Unshackle Upstate, NFIB, and all the
8 business groups that support this, I'd say most
9 importantly -- before I get to my specific piece
10 I want to talk about -- more importantly, the
11 public is getting it and supports this and
12 understands the linkage between policy and job
13 creation and the need for all those things.
14 While I certainly applaud every
15 part of this, I want to take a moment to talk
16 about a piece on angel investment tax credit that
17 both I, Senator DeFrancisco, and others in our
18 conference have been working on, as well as
19 Assemblyman Kellner and Assemblywoman Lupardo in
20 the other house that are part of this package
21 too.
22 Oftentimes in New York we're very
23 fortunate with our colleges, universities who
24 create a great deal amount of technology,
25 discoveries. Even SUNY has a tremendous amount
3243
1 of patents. When yet when the translation comes
2 to make these products, make that vaccine,
3 whatever it may be, we often see that going
4 somewhere else.
5 One of the reasons that's cited for
6 this time and time again is that the financial
7 package that's put together for the new company
8 is always a little bit better or more likely to
9 get funded somewhere else. We need to change
10 that.
11 In my community alone, between the
12 U. of R., Rochester Institute of Technology, even
13 some private companies, the things that they've
14 created, cures for diseases that then are
15 manufactured somewhere else, the pharmaceutical
16 application -- that needs to change. And we
17 could grow a tremendous amount of jobs.
18 This piece would create a pool of
19 money to help that and also give a tax credit for
20 those people investing directly in New York
21 State, whether it's in Rochester, New York City,
22 or anywhere else in this great state.
23 I think this is something very much
24 needed and would also thank the leader and my
25 colleagues for making this a part of the package,
3244
1 and encourage everyone -- we talk about
2 public/private partnerships and the importance of
3 jobs. This package and this piece will go a long
4 way to address a lot of that.
5 Thank you, Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
7 Ranzenhofer.
8 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Thank you,
9 Mr. President.
10 I also rise today in support of the
11 jobs package and just want to highlight a
12 comment that Senator Skelos made, is we really
13 need to address our population loss in this
14 state. We have lost more people in this state
15 than any other state, and that's particularly
16 true in the western region.
17 The part of the plan that I want to
18 talk about specifically is the Hire Now New York
19 tax incentive. Which essentially what it would
20 do is if you are an employer and you hire
21 somebody, you get a $5,000 tax credit. That's
22 one of the things that we need to do to encourage
23 job creation. We need to encourage, we need to
24 incentivize employers to hire people.
25 Right now they're very concerned
3245
1 about the economy, it's a little skittish right
2 now, and they need this extra incentive in order
3 to push them over the edge in order to hire
4 somebody.
5 In addition to that, Mr. President,
6 we have an additional component, which is the
7 unemployment bonus credit. Which essentially
8 says that in addition to the $5,000 credit, if
9 you hire somebody that's currently unemployed and
10 they remain on your rolls for a full year, you
11 will get an additional $3,000 credit to you or to
12 your business.
13 What this will do, Mr. President,
14 this will save employers in New York State
15 $50 million.
16 I would urge its support and am
17 proud to be part of this jobs creation program.
18 There is no more important message, there is no
19 more important policy that we need to advocate
20 for than the creation of jobs for our residents
21 in New York State.
22 Thank you, Mr. President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
24 Ball.
25 SENATOR BALL: I rise today in
3246
1 support of this extremely important package, and
2 most specifically on the Hire a Vet portion.
3 When we talk about less than
4 1 percent of our population that is fighting and
5 preserving the freedom for the rest of us, it
6 seems that sometimes in society we can become
7 disconnected from that reality.
8 There are a few other statistics
9 that are out there as well. That for returning
10 veterans they have twice the unemployment rate,
11 twice the unemployment rate of the rest of
12 society. And for those that have a
13 service-connected disability, they have an even
14 greater unemployment rate -- in some regions,
15 actually three times the national unemployment
16 rate -- because they have very specific
17 challenges.
18 So this program would provide up to
19 $10,000 in tax credits to make sure that -- as a
20 nation and as a state, we do a very good job in
21 allowing young men and women to raise their right
22 hand, and we make all sorts of promises to them
23 when they raise that right hand and they say that
24 they're willing to fight and die for the United
25 States of America.
3247
1 And what this does is it puts
2 New York State at the forefront to say once you
3 return and you've served your country, we will
4 make sure that we keep the promises that we made
5 to you when you raised that right hand. You will
6 be welcome with open arms. We welcome you to the
7 State of New York and thank you for your
8 service.
9 Thank you.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
11 Grisanti.
12 SENATOR GRISANTI: Thank you,
13 Mr. President.
14 You know, my colleagues, what this
15 plan is, this comprehensive plan, this entire
16 plan, supported by councils and public, as was
17 stated, is basically it's saying yes to
18 businesses and saying yes to jobs. It's
19 rebuilding New York as New York has never been.
20 And as Senator Ball stated, the
21 veterans component for me is one of the most
22 important issues, not only with the relief for
23 small businesses, but recognizing our members of
24 our armed services that are coming back in droves
25 that need the help, that need to acclimate back
3248
1 into society. This is what's important when it
2 comes to this package as well.
3 We need to help them acclimate, the
4 men and women who fought for our freedom. We
5 need to have jobs available for them. We need
6 businesses to grow and jobs to be available so
7 this way our tax base grows and people get relief
8 from all sides of this bill.
9 Mr. President, I vote aye.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
11 Alesi.
12 (Pause.)
13 SENATOR ALESI: I'm sorry,
14 Mr. President. I was deeply involved in a
15 conversation with my colleague over here on the
16 benefits of this package.
17 As you've heard from a number of my
18 colleagues, as we've looked across this state we
19 can see the leadership that has been provided by
20 this Governor, Senate Majority Leader Skelos, and
21 the members of this house that truly support the
22 efforts to create job creation and stimulate our
23 economy, to take advantage of the things that
24 this state has to offer.
25 And supporting this legislation
3249
1 will do just exactly that. I commend Leader
2 Skelos and my colleagues, those that are
3 supporting this, and urge those who might not
4 support it to reconsider how vitally important it
5 is to create jobs and stimulate the economy here
6 in New York State.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
8 you.
9 Senator Krueger.
10 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you,
11 Mr. President.
12 If Senator Skelos would answer some
13 questions.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
15 Skelos.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
17 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
18 Thank you, Mr. President.
19 So we've heard quite a bit about
20 this bill and the various sections of it, and so
21 I have questions broken down by the sections.
22 But just to start, what would the
23 cost of this job creation package be when fully
24 enacted on an annual basis?
25 SENATOR SKELOS: First of all,
3250
1 we're dealing with this year, it would be
2 $130 million. And certainly with the income
3 growth that we're seeing in New York State for
4 the job credit, job parts of this bill, we can
5 adequately cover it.
6 If we stay within a 2 percent
7 spending cap upon ourselves, we will have, based
8 on the growth of revenue coming into this state,
9 $2.2 billion that we can use towards this tax cut
10 package. Plus in terms of eliminating the 18-a
11 assessment which you imposed on us several years
12 ago, there are sufficient fund balances in order
13 to pay for this early elimination of this
14 job-killing tax.
15 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
16 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
17 yield.
18 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes.
19 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
20 I appreciate the answer, but the
21 specific question was what would be the annual
22 cost of this package when fully enacted. There's
23 Parts A, B, C, D, E and F.
24 SENATOR SKELOS: Approximately
25 $657 million, somewhere in that range.
3251
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
2 Through you, Mr. President, if the
3 sponsor would continue to yield.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
5 Senator yields.
6 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
7 How many jobs will be created at
8 this cost of $657 million annual?
9 SENATOR SKELOS: My feeling is
10 there will be thousands of jobs, you know,
11 created other than -- unlike what we saw when the
12 last minimum wage was increased, where, with
13 young people between the ages of 16 and 24, there
14 was a 22 percent decrease in employment. And
15 it's estimated that an increase to $8.50 with the
16 minimum wage tax now would cost New York about
17 29,000 jobs, about 7300 of them being poor
18 workers.
19 So our bill will create jobs. The
20 minimum wage which you supported will cost
21 thousands of people jobs in New York State.
22 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
23 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
24 yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
3252
1 sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes,
3 Mr. President.
4 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
5 Well, I appreciate the discussion
6 of minimum wage. But in fact the science and the
7 data shows that minimum wage would guarantee
8 almost 900,000 people an increase in their wage
9 right away and not lead to a decrease in the
10 number of people employed in the state.
11 But that wasn't my question. My
12 question was, in this bill, this specific
13 package, in most circumstances when we the
14 Legislature are asked to vote for a bill to
15 create jobs, we are told how many jobs will be
16 created. And I was wondering if the sponsor knew
17 how many jobs are expected to be created by these
18 specific actions, Part A, B, C, D, E and F.
19 SENATOR SKELOS: If I may,
20 Mr. President, tens of thousands of jobs.
21 SENATOR KRUEGER: Mr. President,
22 if through you the sponsor would continue to
23 yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
25 sponsor yields.
3253
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
2 Is there a minimum salary or
3 benefit requirement needed to get the tax credits
4 or the advantages within any of the parts of this
5 bill?
6 SENATOR SKELOS: No.
7 SENATOR KRUEGER: So,
8 Mr. President, if through you the sponsor would
9 continue to yield.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: So these could
13 be minimum-wage part-time jobs without any
14 benefits?
15 SENATOR SKELOS: They would be
16 full-time jobs.
17 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
18 Mr. President, could the sponsor cite the section
19 of the law that says they have to be full-time
20 jobs?
21 SENATOR SKELOS: If you could
22 repeat that.
23 SENATOR KRUEGER: Certainly.
24 Could the sponsor please find the sections of the
25 bill that make explicit all of the job creation
3254
1 must be for full-time jobs?
2 SENATOR SKELOS: There's nothing
3 that says it has to be full-time jobs. We're
4 talking about an entire package that we believe
5 will create tens of thousands of jobs in New York
6 State.
7 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
8 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
9 yield.
10 I understand that. I'm asking the
11 sponsor to prove that this law and the sections
12 of it would in fact create tens of -- tens of
13 thousands of jobs? I'm sorry --
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Are you
15 speaking on the bill now, or are you asking a
16 question, Senator Krueger?
17 SENATOR KRUEGER: I'm asking a
18 question to identify within the bill the
19 sections that show that for this $657 million per
20 year we would get tens of thousands of jobs at
21 full-time jobs. Because he said that's not
22 part-time jobs.
23 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, if
24 I could respond, talking to the business
25 community, business leaders throughout the state,
3255
1 all of whom are supporting this legislation,
2 speaking to the Nassau County Chamber of
3 Commerce, who came in and visited with the Nassau
4 County delegation, all of them indicated to us,
5 whether it's a small business or a medium-sized
6 business, that they would be hiring people based
7 upon the benefits of this legislation.
8 As to your question, you may look
9 at page 4, section 13. "New employees shall mean
10 any full-time employee that is hired by the
11 taxpayer after July 1, 2012."
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
13 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
14 yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
18 So that section of the law applies
19 specifically to the tax credits for new hires.
20 And so I will agree with the sponsor that that
21 section does lay out "full-time," although it can
22 be minimum wage with no benefits.
23 But a significant section of this
24 bill relates to the reduction of the corporate
25 franchise tax. And is there anything that
3256
1 actually says a company, upon receiving a
2 reduction in their manufacturing tax, actually
3 has to create new jobs in exchange for getting an
4 elimination, actually, ultimately in their
5 corporate franchise tax?
6 SENATOR SKELOS: I guess, you
7 know, Senator Krueger, the difference in your
8 philosophy and my philosophy is that the business
9 community always is looking to invest within
10 their business and create jobs. That's what
11 makes a successful business.
12 So we can cut the taxes, especially
13 a number of the $14 billion in taxes that you
14 imposed when you were in the majority, including
15 the job-killing payroll tax -- which fortunately
16 we were able to repeal that for about 80 percent
17 of the small businesses. That will create jobs.
18 Now, philosophically, you may think
19 taxing and spending creates jobs. We believe in
20 cutting taxes is what creates jobs.
21 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
22 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
23 yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
25 sponsor yields.
3257
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
2 We could have a discussion about
3 the philosophy of what works and doesn't work in
4 our economy, but that's not what I'm asking the
5 sponsor to do tonight. I'm asking him to
6 identify in this bill --
7 SENATOR SKELOS: I've responded to
8 that question. The Senator may not like the way
9 I responded, but that's my answer.
10 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
11 Mr. President, to continue the questions. Thank
12 you.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
14 Krueger, you posed a question?
15 SENATOR KRUEGER: Where in the
16 bill specific to the elimination of the
17 manufacturer's corporate franchise tax does it
18 demand, in return for an elimination of taxes,
19 the creation of jobs, a number of jobs, wages
20 paid for these jobs? Or is it simply an
21 elimination of a tax under the philosophical
22 belief that that will lead to job creation?
23 SENATOR SKELOS: You're absolutely
24 right, it will create jobs.
25 SENATOR KRUEGER: Does it require
3258
1 the creation of jobs?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
3 Krueger, are you asking the sponsor --
4 SENATOR KRUEGER: I am asking the
5 sponsor a question.
6 SENATOR SKELOS: I'd be happy to
7 answer that. Again, it's my belief, it's the
8 belief of the business community, by cutting
9 taxes, jobs will be created.
10 And the cut in the manufacturing
11 tax, the upstate community in particular has been
12 devastated by the loss of manufacturing jobs.
13 And you may recall that -- I believe in the
14 budget that we passed we actually cut a
15 percentage of the manufacturing taxes for upstate
16 New York, so that we were in sync with the
17 Governor. And I believe you voted for that
18 budget that did cut taxes for upstate
19 manufacturers.
20 And now we're going to continue
21 that path of cutting taxes on manufacturing to
22 create jobs.
23 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
24 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
25 yield.
3259
1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
2 sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
4 We have cut quite a few taxes for
5 corporations in this state. Senator Skelos is
6 absolutely right, we have cut taxes for
7 manufacturers.
8 It is not proven that there is a
9 direct correlation between cutting certain kinds
10 of taxes and actually creating jobs.
11 Unfortunately, what this country has actually
12 seen over the last several decades is that in
13 fact we can lower corporate taxes and actually
14 still decrease the number of jobs created.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
16 Krueger, are you asking a question again or on
17 the bill?
18 SENATOR KRUEGER: I am asking the
19 Senator the question, in the section of this bill
20 that lowers and ultimately eliminates corporate
21 franchise taxes, is there anything that requires,
22 in exchange for a lowering of taxes, the creation
23 of jobs?
24 SENATOR SKELOS: The answer is
25 no.
3260
1 But we also believe that something
2 like this has to happen, because our state right
3 now is 49th out of 50 in terms of being
4 business-friendly. So even if it comes down a
5 notch to 48, I think we could declare that a
6 wonderful victory. Because the people of this
7 state who do not have jobs or those that are
8 hanging onto their jobs by a thread want to see
9 that business climate changed in New York State,
10 and that's exactly what this legislation is
11 doing.
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
13 Mr. President. I have been asked to ask
14 questions specific to the bill and not to
15 philosophize about our policies. Could I ask you
16 to ask the sponsor to also answer the questions
17 as I'm asking them.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
19 Krueger, I've just asked you to either speak on
20 the bill or pose a question. You've asked the
21 sponsor to be available to answer questions, so
22 that's all we've made the differentiation. If
23 you would like to speak on the bill --
24 SENATOR KRUEGER: No, no, I have
25 many, many more questions. Thank you,
3261
1 Mr. President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: And
3 also, Senator Krueger, at your request for an
4 explanation we recognized a number of members in
5 order to provide you with a thorough explanation
6 of the bill. So there are other members that may
7 choose to also come in and speak on specific
8 aspects of the bill.
9 SENATOR KRUEGER: Oh, I'm happy if
10 other people want to answer questions, if the
11 sponsor would like to yield to other questions.
12 On the bill, if the sponsor would
13 continue to yield.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you,
17 Mr. President.
18 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
19 In Section A of the bill -- it's
20 specific to the tax credits for job creation --
21 am I right to understand that you could receive
22 $5,000 as a corporate tax filer for each new job,
23 plus an additional $5,000 for the same person if
24 they're a veteran, plus an additional $3,000 if
25 that person you're hiring who is a veteran was
3262
1 unemployed at the time you hired them, totaling
2 $13,000 in tax credits for one employee? Is that
3 a correct reading of the bill?
4 SENATOR SKELOS: It's a total of
5 $8,000. Five thousand dollars for the hiring of
6 the individual, and then I believe it's an extra
7 $3,000 if the person came off of unemployment.
8 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
9 Through you, Mr. President, if the
10 sponsor would continue to yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
14 So as I understand it, this section
15 of the bill actually is putting a correlation
16 between a job created and a cost to the state,
17 which could be as much as $8,000, I'm corrected,
18 not $13,000. Is that correct?
19 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe I
20 answered that about five questions ago.
21 SENATOR KRUEGER: I think that was
22 actually one question ago.
23 Thank you, Mr. President. If the
24 sponsor would continue to yield.
25 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes,
3263
1 Mr. President.
2 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
3 Excuse me, Mr. President. (Pause.)
4 Under the assumption that the largest-cost part
5 of the bill, which I show to be Part B, would be
6 approximately $495 million per year once actually
7 annually -- after we move to the annual
8 maximum -- again, we just went over Part A and
9 what the cost could be potentially per job
10 created. Well, through a person hired, not
11 necessarily a job created. Obviously, you could
12 simply be replacing one person for another.
13 But could the Senator help me
14 understand what the cost per job might be under
15 Part B? Because it's a separate piece. And so
16 Part A actually has an explicit answer, and I'm
17 wondering if there's any explicit answer under
18 Part B.
19 SENATOR SKELOS: No.
20 SENATOR KRUEGER: Okay. Through
21 you, Mr. President, I'll speak on the bill.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
23 Krueger on the bill.
24 SENATOR KRUEGER: I want to thank
25 Senator Skelos for his answers.
3264
1 I'm not opposed to this bill. I
2 think it is very -- I think it's actually very
3 important for New York State to work hard to
4 figure out how we jump-start our economy through
5 creation of jobs.
6 I don't think this is as good as we
7 could have done. Because, as we've learned,
8 Part A, which will cost at least $130 million, is
9 no guarantee of the creation of even one new
10 job.
11 It clearly is a motivation for
12 companies to hire people who are veterans, and
13 that is a good thing in its own right. It
14 clearly is a motivation to hire people who are
15 unemployed, and that is a good thing in its own
16 right.
17 But when you look at the cost per
18 job, which as we discussed can be as much as
19 $8,000 per job created, it's a fairly expensive
20 exercise -- perhaps not for any new jobs in the
21 economy, but rather for a retargeting of who gets
22 the jobs.
23 Now, I think that those are good
24 targets, returning veterans and unemployed
25 people. But again, I want to highlight the
3265
1 difference between tax credits for businesses
2 that we have passed into law in this state that
3 have actually required the creation of a new job,
4 and this model.
5 We have called for the creation of
6 jobs in a variety of bills that actually say they
7 need to be living-wage jobs. They need to be
8 jobs that are more than part-time. We have
9 called for jobs to provide payment of greater
10 than him wage. That's not what we see in this
11 bill.
12 In Part B we are proposing a
13 significant reduction in manufacturing corporate
14 franchise tax. As Senator Skelos points out, we
15 have passed reductions recently. This would
16 speed up and ultimately do away with corporate
17 franchise taxes.
18 The problem with tax cuts or tax
19 reductions that aren't actually pegged to
20 specific job creation is you can end up giving
21 away your tax revenue and not seeing any job
22 creation. Manufacturing, which we do need to
23 support and expand in this state, may be
24 manufacturing that doesn't involve any human
25 beings. More and more of manufacturing is done
3266
1 through robotic modeling, which may not translate
2 into job creation of any significant number,
3 while it will result in an enormous reduction in
4 revenue for the State of New York, which leads us
5 to another problem.
6 So I actually think tax credits and
7 tax reductions that are specifically targeted to
8 an assurance of the creation of a living-wage job
9 in our communities is exactly what we ought to be
10 doing. But the two biggest cost items in this
11 bill don't do that, Section A and Section B.
12 Now, some of the sections I don't
13 have any fault with. I think that addressing the
14 concern about the beer production credit in light
15 of the recent constitutional ruling is an
16 important thing for us to do and is to some
17 degree an obvious piece of this package for us to
18 support. But it has minimal cost.
19 The phaseout of the 18-a assessment
20 one year early, clearly this legislative body and
21 the state already recognized why it wanted to
22 phase out 18-a. But if we do it a year early, it
23 will cost us $261 million. And again, there is
24 no correlation between that and job creation.
25 There's not an obligation to create jobs as your
3267
1 18-a phases out.
2 So again, it's a one-year speed up
3 of something we were already doing. But there's
4 no evidence that that's a job-creation change.
5 The angel tax credit is a limited
6 and interesting proposal worth exploring.
7 The change in the formula on the
8 film production tax credit to expand those
9 benefits applied to post-production, I don't have
10 an argument with. But I wish we had added into
11 that tax credit the writers who have been
12 begging, as the only set of workers within the
13 film tax credit who don't get included, the
14 importance of supporting the writers here
15 throughout New York State, and to assure that as
16 we are producing film, TV, and commercials here
17 in our state, we are also having them written by
18 residents of New York State. So I wish that was
19 in here.
20 So again, I'm going to vote for
21 this bill. But I believe we could have done so
22 much better in actually defining a job-creation
23 package where the dollars being lost in revenue
24 to the State of New York were guaranteed to in
25 fact create jobs, not simply to go back into the
3268
1 pockets of people who are in small business.
2 But I'm not going to vote no,
3 because I actually think that my colleagues make
4 some very good points about the various pieces of
5 this bill.
6 One warning. As Senator Skelos
7 said, it's estimated to be an annualized cost of
8 $657 million. I think soon we will be picking up
9 a different bill on the floor which will cap our
10 state budget if it was to become law.
11 When you reduce your revenue and
12 you cap the size of your budget, you have to ask
13 the question and you have to answer the question,
14 what are you doing to cut instead? And so that
15 is the challenge facing us as a state, which is
16 why this package would be better negotiated
17 within a budget document where you had to answer
18 the question: If we don't collect this revenue,
19 what will we cut out of the budget instead?
20 Senator Skelos is correct when he
21 said because this was a phase-in, it would not
22 have a significant impact on this year's fiscal
23 plan. But it will have a significant impact in
24 future years, in what we call in budgeting the
25 outyears.
3269
1 So in fact if we were approaching
2 this more responsibly, we would deal with it in
3 the context of decisions of our overall budget,
4 what we have decided to pay for, what we realize
5 we can't pay for because we've reduced our tax
6 revenue -- or perhaps deal with it in the broader
7 question of are we collecting the right amounts
8 of tax revenue in other taxes and balancing
9 decisions on behalf of small businesses with
10 other New Yorkers.
11 So it is a hesitant yes,
12 Mr. President, because as I've pointed out -- I
13 think quite accurately -- there are flaws and
14 divots in the road to be dealt with if this were
15 ever to become the law of the State of New York.
16 But I fault no one for trying.
17 Thank you, Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
19 you, Senator Krueger.
20 Senator DeFrancisco.
21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I think
22 there truly is a difference in philosophy.
23 When we on this side of the aisle
24 talk about cutting taxes and creating jobs, we
25 mean just that. Manufacturers or any other
3270
1 businesses are in existence to make money. And
2 if they make money, they're going to hire people
3 who will pay more taxes. And what we're trying
4 to do is to put more money in the hands of the
5 job creators rather than giving more money to
6 government to spend that is not going to create
7 jobs.
8 I'm really at a loss on one of the
9 arguments that was made, one of the arguments
10 that was made about the minimum wage would
11 provide more money in the hands of people to
12 spend. Well, that's no different than phasing
13 out the 18-a tax on energy early so there's more
14 money in the hands of people to spend. Why is
15 one reducing tax revenue and a bad thing, and the
16 other is providing more money for people and it's
17 a good thing, by the minimum wage? I guess you
18 can make an argument to justify any conclusion
19 that you want to reach.
20 The fact of the matter is is that
21 businesses in New York have to make a decision:
22 Where can we make money? Can we make money more
23 in New York, or should we go over to China and
24 manufacture? Can we make more money in
25 Pennsylvania or New York? Where should we go?
3271
1 And depending upon what our tax structure is will
2 determine where they go.
3 They're not organizations to do
4 public works for the public generally; they're
5 organizations to make money. And the more money
6 they make, the more they grow the more jobs.
7 So that aspect has not even been
8 discussed in the questions that were being
9 asked. We're competing with other states, other
10 nations. And no question we don't like that jobs
11 go overseas. Well, why would we want to have a
12 tax structure that helps force them to go
13 overseas or to go to a different state? And when
14 we're 49th in the favorability to businesses
15 going to our state, this is a small part of doing
16 what we have to do to move up the ladder so we're
17 more attractive so these businesses will make
18 money, stay here, or actually come here.
19 The thing -- you know, whether they
20 create those -- whether they build their business
21 by robotic manufacturing or not, we can't impose
22 how they're going to be successful so they
23 compete with other states or with other countries
24 and stay here. Whether it's robotic or not, if
25 they're successful, it's going to ultimately
3272
1 result in more jobs one way or the other. So I
2 don't understand the robotic argument.
3 In addition, government shouldn't
4 be involved in how businesses operate as long as
5 they're operating in a safe way.
6 In addition, I'm almost at a loss
7 for words -- and that is very difficult for me,
8 to be at a loss for words -- when the ranking
9 member on the Finance Committee says there's a
10 lot of good pieces here, but it could be better.
11 It could be better.
12 When we go back to the years 2009
13 and 2010, is this better, eliminating property
14 tax relief checks, the STAR checks, to take money
15 out of the hands of the people? Is this better,
16 to create a payroll tax for the MTA region to
17 take money out of the hands of those businesses
18 and give it to government to spend? Is it better
19 by increasing the cost of utilities by having a
20 tax, the 18-a tax? Is that better?
21 The fact of the matter is, we've
22 been moving since last year along hand-in-hand
23 with the Governor in a philosophy to create jobs
24 and make New York State more competitive. There
25 is no bill that is perfect. But this is an
3273
1 excellent, excellent bill which will help turn us
2 around and turn us around sooner than if we did
3 not present this bill before this body. And
4 hopefully it will be considered by the Assembly.
5 So this is a good bill. We can't
6 say there will be 1,823 jobs or 12,467 jobs
7 created by any aspect of this bill. What we can
8 say is that this package will make us more
9 competitive to keep our manufacturers, to keep
10 our businesses, and to grow business in this
11 state when we're more competitive with other
12 states and other countries.
13 So this is a great bill that should
14 unanimously pass in order to jump-start our
15 economy and keep us going in the correct
16 direction.
17 Thank you, Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
19 Rivera.
20 SENATOR RIVERA: Thank you,
21 Mr. President.
22 So the first thing I'm going to say
23 right off the bat is that it is very likely that
24 there's a couple of my colleagues right now that
25 are thinking it. I can hear it, I can hear you
3274
1 thinking it: You hate small business! You hate
2 job creation! You hate the job creators! I can
3 hear it. I can hear it.
4 Well, I will state it for the
5 record: I love small business. Not only that, I
6 understand that small business is the engine --
7 oh, I'm on the bill, by the way. Just -- you
8 probably already saw that, but --
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
10 Rivera on the bill.
11 SENATOR RIVERA: Thank you, sir.
12 And I understand that small
13 business is certainly the driving force behind
14 most of the economic growth in this country. So
15 I understand those two things.
16 But we have to ask certain
17 questions. The first one, this bill, as Senator
18 Skelos clarified for us, would cost us about
19 $657 million. That is not chump change. So we
20 have to ask -- but I do understand that the
21 purpose of it is to create jobs, as we've stated
22 over and over again. So we have to ask whether
23 this is the smartest way to do that. We can
24 certainly have a debate about that; I believe
25 that is what we have been doing today.
3275
1 I support small business. I
2 support the hiring of veterans, I certainly
3 support that. But we have to start asking other
4 questions, such as: What makes businesses grow?
5 What makes small businesses grow?
6 Businesses grow with demand. When
7 more people are able to pay for either their
8 services or their products, then these businesses
9 can grow. This happens in economic boom times.
10 And unfortunately we are not in economic boom
11 times, as we all recognize.
12 So the question that we are having,
13 as both Senator DeFrancisco and Senator Skelos
14 were arguing, they were talking about what they
15 believe and they were talking about what they
16 think is the smartest way to be able to do some
17 of this stuff.
18 And I have to respectfully disagree
19 with both of my colleagues. We have not spoken
20 about the fact that businesses cannot grow if
21 demand for their product is low. If there's no
22 one to purchase their products or their services,
23 then they have no way to grow.
24 Putting these tax credits and
25 creating these tax credits, while a good idea on
3276
1 its face, sometimes -- when we're not talking
2 about in boom economic times -- does not lead to
3 job growth. Just as we look at Iowa or Wisconsin
4 or Texas, all these states have established
5 programs where they have created tax credits to
6 be able to create jobs. The results
7 unfortunately, because they are not in boom
8 economic times, have not been that positive.
9 Just speaking about Texas, while
10 the Governor over there claims that the tax
11 credits that were put in place were going to
12 create 54,600 jobs, after the period of time
13 which he said these jobs were going to be
14 created, only 22,349 jobs were created.
15 Now, that is a good thing. But
16 again, the question is, where is the best place
17 for us to spend this money?
18 Now, I would argue -- and my
19 colleague Senator DeFrancisco loves to look at
20 the past. He has a tendency to look constantly
21 at what happened before. And so I would ask him
22 to do this. Look back not two or three years
23 ago, but look all the way back to the beginning
24 of the 20th century. Or a couple, maybe 20 or 30
25 years after the 20th century started. We're in
3277
1 the biggest hole that we've ever had in our
2 economy during the Great Depression. Our
3 President figured out that a job-creating program
4 was actually taking the minimum wage and creating
5 a minimum wage and saying that you had to pay at
6 least this amount.
7 It was that program, along with
8 everything else that happened in the New Deal,
9 which made it possible for people to be able to
10 purchase products that are produced by small
11 businesses, purchase services that are provided
12 by small businesses, and having these businesses
13 grow. And here it comes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
15 DeFrancisco, why do you rise?
16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Will he
17 yield to a question?
18 SENATOR RIVERA: I absolutely,
19 most certainly, Mr. President, will do that.
20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator, are
21 you saying that raising the minimum wage during
22 the Depression was how we got out of the
23 Depression?
24 SENATOR RIVERA: Mr. President,
25 through you, I am saying that as part of the
3278
1 package that the President introduced during the
2 Great Depression, this was certainly one of the
3 ways that we did get out of the Depression, yes,
4 sir.
5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: One other
6 question.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
8 Rivera, do you yield?
9 SENATOR RIVERA: I yield.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
11 Senator yields.
12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Do you know
13 what the other parts of the plan was to get out
14 of the Depression? Did it include incentives for
15 businesses and the like?
16 SENATOR RIVERA: Mr. President,
17 through you. Not only that, but there were also
18 many government programs where people were
19 employed by the government. And I know it's
20 crazy to think that government can actually
21 employ individuals, I know.
22 But they were actually also
23 employed. They had projects that were -- massive
24 projects that were done. They had money in their
25 pocket, they spent it on services and goods, and
3279
1 they were all definitely --
2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Thank you.
3 SENATOR RIVERA: Absolutely.
4 Thank you, Senator DeFrancisco.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
6 Rivera on the bill.
7 SENATOR RIVERA: So ultimately, if
8 we're talking about the package that we need to
9 consider to help get us out of the economic hole
10 that we find ourselves in in New York, I would
11 argue that while some of what is in this package
12 is certainly one of the ways that we should go at
13 it, to consider it without thinking about the
14 minimum wage and the impact that that would have
15 on thousands and thousands if not millions of
16 New Yorkers that would then be able to afford
17 services and goods that are produced by these
18 small businesses -- just to consider, the raise
19 from $7.25, if we raised it from $7.25 to $8.50,
20 it would mean about $50 a week in the paycheck of
21 a minimum-wage worker that works full-time.
22 Fifty dollars. Fifty dollars will
23 go right to the local supermarket, it will go
24 right to the local bodega, it will go right to
25 the local pharmacy -- small businesses, all of
3280
1 these, that then will be able to continue to
2 operate in these neighborhoods.
3 So ultimately, I think that when
4 we're talking about how to stimulate the economy,
5 if we're not having a discussion not only about
6 potentially creating tax credits for businesses
7 so that they can create jobs, but also about
8 putting more purchasing power in the pockets of
9 millions of New Yorkers that are currently right
10 at the tip, right at the tip of falling into a
11 depression of their own, economically speaking, I
12 believe that we're not having a full
13 conversation.
14 So even though there are parts of
15 this bill that I might agree with, I think that
16 ultimately the whole package, without considering
17 this part, makes it an incomplete package. And
18 even though I appreciate the overall purpose of
19 the bill, I think ultimately it is misguided and
20 it is incomplete. And I am going to be forced to
21 vote in the negative.
22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
24 Libous.
25 SENATOR LIBOUS: Will Senator
3281
1 Rivera yield for a question?
2 SENATOR RIVERA: To Senator
3 Libous? Mr. President, absolutely.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
5 Rivera yields.
6 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 Senator, do you know when the
9 federal government raised the minimum wage last?
10 SENATOR RIVERA: I'm sorry, I
11 didn't hear.
12 SENATOR LIBOUS: I'm sorry, I'll
13 speak louder.
14 Mr. President, through you, does
15 Senator Rivera know when the federal government
16 raised the minimum wage last?
17 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
18 Mr. President, I do not recall. No, sir.
19 SENATOR LIBOUS: I believe it was
20 2009.
21 And, Mr. President, through you, if
22 I could ask another question.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
24 Rivera, do you yield?
25 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes, sir.
3282
1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Since 2009, what
2 is your estimate of the economy of this country?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
4 Rivera.
5 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
6 Mr. President, that's an interesting question.
7 If you look at the numbers of jobs that have been
8 created in the private sector during that period
9 of time, it is actually an increase. It has been
10 overly positive.
11 And over that same period of time,
12 if you look at the number of jobs that have been
13 in the public sector and you look at the fact
14 that there's been so much encroachment in so many
15 different states that are led by your party where
16 the state and state employees -- because again,
17 when we are saying state employees, our state can
18 actually employ folks as well. During that same
19 period of time, there has been either a
20 flattening or a lessening of people working in
21 state government.
22 So during that same period of time,
23 if we're talking about job creation, the private
24 industry has actually created jobs almost every
25 single month for the entire period of time since
3283
1 2009 till now.
2 Through you, Mr. President.
3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
4 again, I'll ask the question. So you believe
5 that during that period of time after the federal
6 government increased the minimum wage that the
7 economy of this country has improved and that
8 we've been creating jobs?
9 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
10 Mr. President. I don't believe that; the facts
11 state that.
12 If I had -- I know that we're not
13 allowed to bring props, but give me a few minutes
14 and I can bring up some numbers from very -- not
15 from some hippie think tank, but from probably
16 some of the same folks that you would count on
17 that that would actually demonstrate this
18 clearly. The private sector has created, in
19 almost every quarter, has created more and more
20 jobs. A lot of it has been the public sector and
21 the fact that it's been mostly flat and in some
22 places decreasing that has actually made the
23 number of total jobs created kind of not as high
24 as it needs to be.
25 Through you, Mr. President.
3284
1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
2 through you, would he yield for another
3 question?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
5 Rivera, do you yield?
6 The Senator yields.
7 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Senator, then
9 contrary to what has been reported, you do not
10 believe since 2009 that we have experienced the
11 worst recession, maybe an economic period as
12 difficult as the Great Depression has been
13 reported every day on every news outlet -- not
14 just certain news outlets, but every news
15 outlet -- and even the current President of the
16 United States claims that he inherited this
17 terrible job situation? But yet the minimum wage
18 went up, and it didn't seem to get us out of this
19 depression or recession, whatever -- Senator
20 Krueger is changing her seat.
21 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
22 Mr. President. What I am saying -- I am not
23 saying that the economy is rosy. But I am saying
24 that as far as job creation is concerned, over
25 that period of time I believe that the number is
3285
1 about 3.5 million that have been created in the
2 private sector.
3 And although we're certainly not
4 out of -- we're not out of the woods yet, I do
5 think that because of the actions of this
6 President -- and thank you so much for bringing
7 that up. I would not have thought that you of
8 all folks would actually bring us, in this
9 chamber and actually help to remind me that we
10 should all laud the actions of our President that
11 have actually stopped a lot of the economy from
12 jumping off that cliff.
13 And certainly the actions of the
14 President, along with Congress, sometimes with
15 great difficulty, have actually led to creation
16 of private jobs that have been going up almost
17 every quarter in the last couple of years.
18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I
19 am quite excited about the Senator's animated
20 answer to that. But actually the number of jobs
21 has gone down since the period of time that the
22 minimum wage went up. And there are statistics
23 that show that. And the unemployment rate
24 continued to rise during that time, which shows
25 that there are fewer and fewer jobs.
3286
1 So again, I will sit down. The
2 Senator was gracious to yield to me. But it is
3 my belief that since the last minimum wage was
4 increased to $7.25 by the federal government, we
5 have been in one of the worst recessions this
6 country has seen since the Great Depression.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
8 you, Senator Libous.
9 Senator Rivera, I believe you were
10 concluding when Senator Libous rose.
11 SENATOR RIVERA: I was, before I
12 was rudely interrupted. I almost forgot what I
13 was saying. I might just have to start again.
14 I'm messing with you. I'm messing with you.
15 Ultimately, ultimately, my
16 colleagues -- and I would actually like to be
17 able to show this stuff to Senator Libous and
18 let's have a battle of graphs, if you will. But
19 I'm very comfortable in saying that there has
20 been, as far as job creation is concerned -- if
21 we're talking about that over the last couple of
22 years, we have gotten better in the private
23 sector.
24 But the more important part of this
25 whole conversation, my colleagues, has to do with
3287
1 the choices that we make about where to put these
2 resources. We are choosing to say $657 million
3 of our revenue, we should say we're going to give
4 that up because we believe that it will create
5 jobs.
6 And certainly while belief is
7 important, I believe that facts are more
8 important. And what I have seen in other states
9 is that some of the types of programs that we're
10 creating here today or that we're proposing here
11 today ultimately in a noneconomic boom will not
12 allow for the job creation that a lot of folks
13 say would be possible.
14 And I think that when it comes to
15 demand, when the products and the services that
16 are available cannot be afforded because people
17 can't pay for them, that makes those businesses
18 fail. So if we're going to allow for some of
19 those businesses to grow, we have to allow -- we
20 have to also consider, as part of a package like
21 this, raising the minimum wage.
22 The fact that we are not doing that
23 is disappointing, and I believe it makes for an
24 incomplete package. And I will be voting in the
25 negative on this piece of legislation. Unless
3288
1 somebody more wants to interrupt -- no, nobody?
2 Okay, voting in the negative.
3 Thank you, Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
5 Marcellino.
6 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 I want to commend Senator Skelos
9 for bringing this bill to the floor. It's
10 absolutely necessary that we engage in a
11 conversation where we can talk about growing the
12 economy and stimulating small businesses to
13 create jobs.
14 I was listening on the way up this
15 morning, as I was driving on the way up I was
16 listening to Fred Dicker's show, which emanates,
17 as we all know, out of this Capitol building.
18 And he was talking to Mickey Carroll, the guy who
19 does the Quinnipiac polls, and they were talking
20 about the fact that between the years 2000 and
21 2009, in New York State, we lost a total of about
22 3.4 million people: 3.4 million people left
23 New York State between 2000 and 2009.
24 During that same period of time, we
25 gained a little more than 2 million people. So
3289
1 we have a net loss of population of over
2 1 million people. Which accounts for a net loss
3 of revenue to the state, from these people who
4 have left the state, of about a billion-plus in
5 revenue to the State of New York which couldn't
6 be used for goods and services for our
7 constituents and for people in the state.
8 This trend has to be changed. This
9 trend can't go on. We cannot have people leaving
10 the state. Where are they going? Interestingly
11 enough, Senator, where were they going? They're
12 going to Texas. They're going to Florida -- as I
13 refer to it, God's waiting room. But that's
14 where they're going. They're going to states
15 where there are no income taxes, where there are
16 no inheritance taxes, where the taxes are lower
17 and the cost of living is lower and the cost of
18 doing business is lower than it is right here in
19 New York State.
20 Now, I don't like that. I don't
21 like that. I'm a resident of New York State, a
22 lifelong resident of New York State, and I want
23 to stay here in New York State. And I want my
24 children and my grandchildren to stay here in
25 New York State. But they can't stay here if they
3290
1 can't make a living. And they can't make a
2 living if small businesses, big businesses, and
3 medium-sized businesses, I don't care what they
4 are, don't come here, settle here, and start
5 doing business here. Which means hiring our
6 citizens. Hiring our people.
7 We pay a fortune to educate our
8 children, and they have to leave New York State
9 to get a job. That isn't good. That isn't good
10 politics, and that isn't good government. We've
11 got to change that.
12 This bill -- flawed? Maybe. I
13 don't know any great bills, I don't know any
14 perfect bills that have ever come out of this
15 place, except maybe one that Kevin Parker wrote.
16 I understand that, Kevin.
17 But the name of the game is there's
18 no such thing as perfection except for the
19 Supreme Being, and that might be the only
20 perfection we can all agree upon.
21 But right now, this bill is a good
22 bill. It starts the process, it engages, it gets
23 small business in the realm. And then we can
24 start the process of getting our people back to
25 employment and stop the bleeding of human beings
3291
1 out of New York State.
2 I don't care what side of the aisle
3 you're on, you cannot be happy -- and I'm sure we
4 all have it in our families -- you cannot be
5 happy when members of your family say, Gee, Dad,
6 Mom, Granddad, Uncle, whatever, I can't stay
7 here, I've got to go to Texas, Carolina, Florida,
8 all those other states, Pennsylvania, where I can
9 get a job and the cost of living is less than
10 living in New York State.
11 Everything we talk about,
12 everything we debate is negated when our citizens
13 tell us they can't afford to stay here. And I
14 will guarantee it, and I'm willing to bet each
15 and every one of you is getting the same mail I
16 get: Senator, I can't afford to live here
17 anymore. You got to help me. You got to cut my
18 taxes. You got to make it better for me to stay
19 here. I want my children to stay here. I want
20 my grandchildren to stay here. And right now
21 they can't, under current conditions.
22 Working with Senator Skelos's bill,
23 working with Governor Cuomo over the past year
24 has been positive. We have gone and moved this
25 state in the right direction. This bill will
3292
1 move more in the right direction towards creating
2 jobs, cutting the cost of doing business in this
3 state, cutting the cost of living in this state,
4 and encouraging more of our people to stay in
5 this state.
6 Ladies and gentlemen, I suggest we
7 vote aye on this piece of legislation.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
9 Parker.
10 SENATOR PARKER: Thank you,
11 Mr. President. On the bill.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
13 Parker on the bill.
14 SENATOR PARKER: I actually stand
15 to rise -- I stand to rise, that's a good one. I
16 rise to join my colleagues, and that's because
17 I'm going to do something unusual and
18 congratulate Senator Skelos on this bill.
19 I feel like, as I've been listening
20 to this debate, to some degree the Republicans
21 have started negotiating against themselves. I
22 think that there's no one in this chamber who
23 does not think that creating jobs and being able
24 to do better for small businesses in our state is
25 an important thing for us to do.
3293
1 But I do certainly stand shoulder
2 to shoulder with my colleague Senator Krueger and
3 her warnings about how we go about that, that it
4 is important for us to create an environment
5 where business, particularly small businesses --
6 and when we talk about small business, most of us
7 are not really talking about the SBA definition,
8 which talks about a hundred people in the
9 business and, you know, a hundred million
10 dollars' worth of revenue and all that stuff.
11 We're really talking about, for the
12 most part, mom-and-pop shops. We're mostly
13 talking about, you know, not the Wall Street
14 economy but the Main Street economy. And in my
15 district, the main streets of Flatbush and Church
16 Avenue and Utica Avenue and Ocean Avenue. And
17 those businesses are businesses of about
18 25 people; most of them have total revenues of
19 less than $5 million.
20 And that's what I'm sure that we're
21 talking about around the state. And certainly
22 many of the things that are being proposed in
23 this current bill are going to be helpful to
24 those businesses and so on.
25 So I am going to vote yes on this
3294
1 bill. I think, you know, I agree with the
2 chairman of the Energy and Telecommunication
3 Committee, Senator Maziarz, when he talks about
4 the taxes that are onerous on energy and
5 communications companies that we did a number of
6 years ago, the 18-a surcharge, and we certainly
7 need to get rid of that. Wish we didn't have to
8 do it in the first place.
9 But I really rose because I could
10 not help but to be engaged in the kind of debate
11 that I thought that I would be engaged in when I
12 came here as a Senator, which it is really to
13 talk about the direction that we're going to go.
14 All of us agree that we ought to be
15 bringing more jobs and small businesses are the
16 way to go. And I think that we agree that that
17 ought to be the way to go about it, that we ought
18 to be moving in that direction. The question is
19 how do we go about it. The question is how do
20 you create jobs. The question is how do you put
21 more money in the pockets of everyday people,
22 those of us who are our constituents.
23 And what I'm hearing across the
24 aisle is that we ought to do a top-down approach,
25 that we ought to take the business owners and put
3295
1 more money in the hands of the business owners.
2 And that may be a part of the approach. But what
3 we have seen on a national level is that that has
4 not in fact worked, that bailing out AIG and
5 bailing out the big banks on Wall Street and
6 bailing out GM and Chrysler and all the rest of
7 the companies that we bailed out in this country
8 has not in fact created new jobs in this country
9 for us. It certainly has not done what we
10 thought it would do in terms of creating more
11 buying power for every single working man and
12 woman not just in our state but across the
13 country.
14 And so we're saying let's do
15 something that's a little more balanced. We're
16 going to pass this bill today in this house,
17 because I'm sure that the votes are there, but
18 it's a one-house bill. So clearly you have not
19 gotten the Assembly to agree that this is the way
20 that we ought to go. So maybe there's a little
21 bit of work that needs to be done, and we ought
22 to have some conversations about that.
23 But on the same day that you are
24 putting this forward to in fact say you're going
25 to put more money in the hands of people -- and
3296
1 we're going to agree, and many of us are going to
2 vote for it -- you have denied an access to a
3 vote on a resolution that would absolutely put
4 more money in the hands of people, and that's
5 raising the minimum wage.
6 That in fact if we're going to give
7 tax cuts for jobs, that we ought to be in fact
8 putting more money in the hands of working people
9 so they in fact have some money so they can buy
10 things in these beautiful new buildings and these
11 beautiful new small businesses that are going to
12 be all over the place now because we're cutting
13 everybody's taxes and everybody is going to be
14 running and flocking back to New York once we
15 pass this bill. All right? We ought to be doing
16 both.
17 And I certainly again want to
18 reiterate that I think that Senator Krueger's
19 point should be well-taken: That when you cut
20 taxes, you in fact have to pay for those tax cuts
21 some way. And so we're going to get rid of
22 something, and it's going to cost $216 million to
23 provide the tax cut. The question that has not
24 been answered is where that $216 million is going
25 to come from.
3297
1 The question is if in fact we're
2 going to say we're going to produce jobs, how
3 many jobs? Where are those jobs going to be
4 located at? Are they part-time jobs or are they
5 full-time jobs? Are they minimum-wage jobs or
6 are they living-wage jobs? Right? A lot of
7 questions here that have not been answered.
8 I'm going to vote yes because on
9 this particular subject on this particular day,
10 I'm going to trust that Senator Skelos has those
11 answers and we will be able to get those things
12 maybe after the session today. But certainly we
13 have not been provided those answers in the
14 questioning that Senator Krueger made to the
15 Finance chair or anyone else.
16 And so I think that, you know,
17 we're going in the right direction. I'm not sure
18 it's the correct road, but we're at least, I
19 think, going in the right direction as we start
20 talking about, you know, job creation, as we
21 start talking about small business development.
22 But we certainly ought to be
23 answering the important questions about how are
24 we going to pay for this, where the jobs are
25 going to be created, and how do we in fact make
3298
1 sure that these are the kinds of jobs that are
2 going to be full-time jobs at a living wage with
3 benefits. Because unless they're full-time jobs
4 at a living wage with benefits, we're really
5 doing a disservice to the people of this state
6 and we're really, you know, kicking the can down
7 the road, you know, for other times for us to
8 resolve these important issues.
9 Thank you.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
11 you.
12 Senator Stavisky.
13 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you,
14 Mr. President. On the bill initially.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
16 Stavisky on the bill.
17 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yeah, I think
18 this bill is incomplete also. It's missing the
19 minimum-wage component that I think is crucial.
20 But it seems to me that half a bill is better
21 than no bill at all. And for that reason, I'm
22 going to vote for the bill.
23 But I was listening to the debate
24 between my colleague Senator Rivera and two
25 Senators on the other side, and I wonder -- and I
3299
1 was sitting here thinking they were comparing
2 unemployment to today to the period in the 1930s
3 during the Great Depression. And if one of the
4 Senators would respond to really just one
5 question.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: You have
7 a question, Senator Stavisky?
8 I would ask Senator DeFrancisco,
9 would you yield?
10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Sure.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
12 Stavisky, Senator DeFrancisco yields.
13 SENATOR STAVISKY: During the
14 1930s we were obviously in the period of the
15 Great Depression. How did we get out of the
16 Great Depression?
17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I wasn't
18 there, but what I understand --
19 (Laughter.)
20 SENATOR STAVISKY: I wasn't there
21 either.
22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: But what I
23 understand is that there was a job-creating by
24 the federal government called World War II.
25 SENATOR STAVISKY: That's right.
3300
1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And during
2 that period of time there was a lot of people
3 that had to go to the service, not voluntarily --
4 or actually voluntarily, but because of need, and
5 that ended up creating a lot of industries and
6 kick-started the economy.
7 Not really the way we'd want to do
8 it. So we're proposing this package as opposed
9 to World War Three.
10 (Laughter.)
11 SENATOR STAVISKY: I wonder if we
12 had the same history professor at Syracuse.
13 (Laughter.)
14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Probably.
15 SENATOR STAVISKY: Probably.
16 Since I happen to be a graduate of the
17 institution in the Senator's district.
18 Exactly, it was the beginning of
19 the Second World War, a public stimulus package.
20 But there was one other aspect that
21 got us out of the Great Depression, and that was
22 a massive public works project. Public monies --
23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Are you
24 on the bill now?
25 SENATOR STAVISKY: On the bill.
3301
1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
2 Stavisky on the bill.
3 SENATOR STAVISKY: Public money
4 was spent on a massive public works project where
5 government became the employer of last resort.
6 And I suggest that the New Deal and
7 obviously the Second World War were the economic
8 stimuli that helped end -- and nobody is
9 suggesting a war, but on the other hand, perhaps
10 some kind of public works project might succeed
11 again.
12 Thank you, Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
14 you, Senator Stavisky.
15 Is there any other Senator wishing
16 to be heard?
17 Seeing none, hearing none, debate
18 is closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
19 Read the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
23 roll.
24 (The Secretary called the roll.)
25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
3302
1 Breslin to explain his vote.
2 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you,
3 Mr. President.
4 Just briefly, I intend to vote for
5 this bill because I believe in any attempt to
6 improve our economy, to get small businesses more
7 viable than they have been.
8 But again, as speakers have said,
9 it's without a minimum wage, and denying more a
10 million people the ability to make a fair wage to
11 support families.
12 And I heard way too much
13 finger-pointing --
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Excuse
15 me, Senator Breslin.
16 Can we have some order, please.
17 Thank you.
18 Senator Breslin.
19 SENATOR BRESLIN: I heard way too
20 much finger-pointing that "you Democrats."
21 The Democrats were in power here
22 for two years. I have been in this body for
23 15 years, and upstate New York and Western
24 New York has been an economic quagmire for those
25 15 years, most of the time supported by a
3303
1 Republican Governor and a Republican Senate.
2 So the sooner that we begin to move
3 this state forward and take away the labels, the
4 better off we'll be.
5 So I applaud this bill, I'll vote
6 for it, and I look forward to the minimum wage
7 passing very shortly.
8 Thank you, Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
10 you. Senator Breslin to be recorded in the
11 affirmative.
12 Senator Hannon to explain his vote.
13 SENATOR HANNON: Thank you,
14 Mr. President.
15 I think it's of utmost importance
16 that we've changed the direction that we're
17 going. When we did the budget, we were talking
18 about a fiscal plan for a year. When we do tax
19 cuts, we're talking about the fiscal plan for the
20 future.
21 And what we're doing in eliminating
22 taxes on manufacturers, on small businesses,
23 giving small business job credits, little small
24 things like angel investing or helping the tax
25 credit on the film industry, which brings jobs to
3304
1 the state, is essential and important to the
2 direction this state is going.
3 In addition to the job growth that
4 comes about because of these --
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Excuse
6 me, Senator Hannon. (Gaveling.)
7 Thank you, Senator Hannon. Please
8 proceed.
9 SENATOR HANNON: In addition to
10 the job growth that comes about because of these
11 tax cuts, the state has to be in a position of
12 knowing that there are other states coming to
13 New York on a daily basis offering enticements to
14 our industries, to our manufacturers, sometimes
15 even to our retailers to go to those states.
16 We have to be protective. The
17 other states are lowering their taxes, they're
18 designing economic packages. And we have to be
19 protective of that. This will help. This will
20 keep the economy of the state going forward.
21 Thank you.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
23 Hannon to be recorded in the affirmative.
24 Senator Squadron to explain his
25 vote.
3305
1 SENATOR SQUADRON: Thank you,
2 Mr. President.
3 I just want to rise and say that I
4 think that the beer tax credit being in this bill
5 is important. It's been a growing industry over
6 the last decade, and one that we need to save,
7 and so I am pleased to see that. There are some
8 other positive and less positive things in the
9 bill, but moving that forward is important.
10 As Senator Breslin pointed out, and
11 so many others, the fact that this is moving
12 without the minimum wage moving is really a
13 terrible shame for the people of the State of
14 New York. It's important, for fairness and for
15 equity, we need to do the minimum wage. It
16 doesn't mean that there aren't good pieces of
17 this bill. But the fact that we haven't had the
18 chance to vote on minimum wage in this house is a
19 real shame.
20 I urge the other side to allow it
21 to come to a vote. Let's see if we have a
22 majority in the house who will raise the state's
23 minimum wage. If we don't, we won't. But let's
24 not bottle it up.
25 I'll vote yes on this bill and urge
3306
1 a future vote on minimum wage.
2 Thank you, Mr. President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
4 Squadron to be recorded in the affirmative.
5 Senator Fuschillo to explain his
6 vote.
7 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you very
8 much, Mr. President.
9 I fully support Senator Skelos's
10 legislation, and I want to applaud his efforts.
11 This is so critically important to keep the state
12 moving forward in the right direction, creating
13 jobs, providing tax incentives, but putting money
14 back in the pockets of small-business men and
15 women so they can reinvest, rehire, and create
16 jobs and keep stimulating the economy here
17 throughout New York State.
18 I proudly vote aye on this
19 legislation.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
21 Fuschillo to be recorded in the affirmative.
22 Announce the results.
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57. Nays,
24 1. Senator Rivera recorded in the negative.
25 Absent from voting: Senator Adams.
3307
1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
2 is passed.
3 Senator Libous, that completes the
4 controversial reading of the supplemental
5 calendar.
6 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 We need to lay the rest of the
9 supplemental calendar aside for the day. Can we
10 do that?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
12 remainder of the supplemental calendar will be
13 laid aside for the day.
14 Senator Libous.
15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Yes, lay the rest
16 of the supplemental calendar aside for the day.
17 So that would be 964, 965, 966, 967, 968, 970,
18 and 971.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: So noted
20 and so ordered.
21 Senator Libous.
22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, if
23 we could go back to the main calendar and take
24 up, and this would be non-controversial, a bill
25 by Senator Young that was laid aside. That would
3308
1 be Senate 817. If we could take that up right
2 now.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:
4 Returning to the noncontroversial active list,
5 the Secretary will read the substitution.
6 THE SECRETARY: On page 44,
7 Senator Young moves to discharge, from the
8 Committee on Health, Assembly Bill Number 9834
9 and substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
10 Number 6970, Third Reading Calendar 817.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
12 substitution is so ordered.
13 The Secretary will read.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 817, by Member of the Assembly Gunther, Assembly
16 Print Number 9834, an act to amend the Public
17 Health Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read the
19 last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
23 roll.
24 (The Secretary called the roll.)
25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 59.
3309
1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
2 is passed.
3 Senator Libous.
4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Now,
5 Mr. President, if we can go to the controversial
6 reading of the calendar, I believe Bill Number
7 299, Senate Print 716, by Senator Robach.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
9 Secretary will ring the bell.
10 The Secretary will read.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 299, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 716, an act
13 to amend the State Finance Law.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
15 Krueger.
16 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you,
17 Mr. President. Would the sponsor please yield
18 for some questions?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
20 Robach, do you yield?
21 SENATOR ROBACH: I would, gladly.
22 Thank you.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
24 Senator yields.
25 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
3310
1 So we've debated this bill several
2 previous years. And in previous years, as you
3 might recall, I'd asked you whether you had done
4 any research into other states that have actually
5 passed these kinds of budget increase cap
6 legislation and if you had looked at the impact
7 on those states.
8 So this year I will ask you again,
9 have you done any research into some of the
10 problems that have been created in other states
11 that passed legislation similar to yours?
12 SENATOR ROBACH: Yeah, I'm not
13 certain, but I'm trying to recall. I have
14 actually looked at them, and I think that your --
15 it's kind of a leading question, as we call it in
16 the courtroom.
17 I don't think that there are
18 problems with places that have caps. I think
19 that there's been structural problems in the
20 places that don't that continually outpace the
21 rate of inflation in their spending. So I have
22 looked at those.
23 I think this bill simply does what
24 the Governor has stated and what we've done the
25 last two years in a row and said we are not going
3311
1 to let spending increase greater than the rate of
2 inflation, which I have to say I think would
3 restore a lot of sanity putting that in a statute
4 to our budgetary process.
5 I also -- Part 2 lets it, the rainy
6 day fund, be increased from 3 percent to
7 10 percent, so in the event that we do have a bad
8 year, we would have some money set aside to
9 protect some of the important programs that we
10 all value that people rely on regardless of age
11 or upstate or downstate.
12 So I think the states, Senator
13 Krueger, who have done that have actually fared
14 better than the ones that haven't.
15 And I may even go one step
16 further. And I think that if you look at, in
17 particular, California and New York, who for
18 years spent greater than the rate of inflation,
19 they seem to have the most challenging times both
20 in terms of issues with businesses and also, I
21 would say, in unhappiness with the population on
22 the taxes that have to be derived to sustain that
23 type of fiscal policy.
24 This would level us out, give us
25 some expectation. And, just like a family
3312
1 budget, when you know what your income is, to say
2 it can't grow too greater than that, to try not
3 to have these spikes and valleys but have some
4 stability.
5 And I would end the answer with I
6 think over the last two years, with the Governor
7 insisting that be part of the budget, we've done
8 that now in ideology. I think it's time to put
9 it into statute.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
11 Krueger.
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
13 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
14 yield.
15 SENATOR ROBACH: Certainly.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR KRUEGER: So is it the
19 sponsor's understanding of his bill that if we
20 increased the rainy day fund from 3 percent to
21 10 percent but we also must stay within the cap
22 parameters of his bill, we actually are lowering
23 the amount of money available for our budget by a
24 significant amount, say next year? Is that
25 correct?
3313
1 SENATOR ROBACH: There's no
2 question that to live within our means, just like
3 any budget in any family, any business, you
4 definitely have to make some challenging
5 decisions. I don't deny that. But I think
6 there's plenty of room in our state to do that.
7 We've started going down that
8 road. I think we need to continue until it does
9 stable out and we get the critical programming.
10 But I do also think, just like in
11 my private economy, if you will, certainly I
12 sleep a lot better at night knowing if I have a
13 little bit of money saved for my kids' college
14 and other things that are important to me, I
15 think that would behoove the state to do that as
16 well.
17 I do remember one year earlier in
18 my career when we had a very bad economic
19 downturn, the Legislature was here for the entire
20 month of December having to vote on cutting a lot
21 of programs that I knew were very important and
22 critical, because we had no money and by
23 constitution our budget has to be balanced on
24 paper. I think that's the best I can answer it,
25 that we'd avoid that.
3314
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
2 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
3 yield.
4 SENATOR ROBACH: Certainly,
5 Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR KRUEGER: So as I do the
9 calculations under your proposed bill, in fiscal
10 year '13-'14, if the cap in your bill was in
11 effect, the state operating fund spending would
12 be limited to $90.3 billion, as compared to
13 Department of Budget's estimate of $92.6 billion,
14 which is $2.3 billion less than we're on schedule
15 and projected to spend.
16 Do you agree with those numbers?
17 SENATOR ROBACH: What it would do
18 is, regardless of the year, is this spending cap
19 established in this legislation would limit the
20 growth of state operating funds spending to no
21 more than the average rate of inflation of the
22 three previous calendar years.
23 SENATOR KRUEGER: So we did the
24 math on what that would mean, and so it --
25 SENATOR ROBACH: I take your word
3315
1 for it.
2 SENATOR KRUEGER: Okay. So
3 assuming our math is right and we would have
4 $2.3 billion less for the next fiscal year. And
5 today almost all of us voted for an additional
6 package which would lose another $657 million in
7 revenue, as I recall from the previous debate.
8 So we're up to about $3 billion less.
9 And then earlier today in Finance
10 you carried a bill that would reduce our tax
11 revenue by an additional $350 million. Now, I in
12 fact didn't vote for your bill, but that was a
13 bill that did move through Finance and could
14 conceivably come to the floor.
15 SENATOR ROBACH: What bill would
16 that be?
17 SENATOR KRUEGER: One moment.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Members,
19 could you please direct your comments through the
20 chair.
21 SENATOR KRUEGER: I'm sorry.
22 You know what, I apologize, it was
23 Senator Ranzenhofer's bill, 319A. You voted yes
24 for it, but it was not your bill, I apologize.
25 It was Senator Ranzenhofer's bill.
3316
1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
2 Krueger, do you have a question?
3 SENATOR KRUEGER: I was in a
4 question. I was clarifying my question.
5 So if this bill reduces what we'd
6 have to spend by $2.3 billion next fiscal year,
7 the package we just passed would reduce another
8 $675 million, and if Senator Ranzenhofer's tax
9 reduction bill passed, it would be another
10 $350 million -- so let's round to $3.2 billion --
11 what would you cut out of next year's budget?
12 Because we wouldn't be able to spend that
13 $3.2 billion.
14 SENATOR ROBACH: I guess I would
15 look at it a little bit differently.
16 There's no question that even what
17 we've already done currently over the last two
18 years, we've had to make some challenging
19 decisions, put in efficiencies, reduce the size
20 of government -- which the public seems to
21 appreciate, enjoy, and like.
22 And as I said earlier, there may be
23 difficult decisions that have to be made
24 regardless of that. But I don't shy away from
25 that. I think there's appropriate times to do
3317
1 government programming, and I think there's
2 appropriate times to put money back to the
3 taxpayers. Because I think we always have to
4 remember where the money comes from.
5 You seem to feel like -- you keep
6 using this term "what will it cost." It doesn't
7 cost us anything. It's someone else's money.
8 It's your constituents and my constituents, it's
9 their dollars from their family that fund these
10 things.
11 So given the fact, I guess would be
12 my answer, because I don't know specifically,
13 that we spend more money per capita in our
14 government programs almost than any state in the
15 nation -- I believe the most. And I like a lot
16 of the programs. I don't want to be
17 hypocritical. But we would have to fine-tune,
18 tighten our belts, just like businesses, working
19 families are doing in the State of New York, to
20 get to the number.
21 But, Senator Krueger, we do that --
22 well, we don't do that every year. We've done it
23 the last two years, working hand-in-hand with the
24 Governor to try and be a little more fiscally
25 responsible. I believe we should have been doing
3318
1 that earlier. That's what the budget's all
2 about.
3 The idea of continuing to spend
4 money you don't have and then raise the revenue
5 later always costs some taxpayer somewhere more
6 money. So that's what I'm trying to avoid and
7 stabilize.
8 SENATOR KRUEGER: Mr. President,
9 on the bill.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
11 Krueger on the bill.
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
13 Well, I agree with Senator Robach
14 in his final sentence. Our job in budgets is to
15 try to balance the needs of the people of
16 New York State, 19.5 million of them, and the
17 budget realities we face, including being forced
18 to make hard choices. I actually think that's
19 what we get elected to do, to make decisions
20 about revenue and taxation in the context of the
21 decisions we make about spending money.
22 The problem I have with tax caps
23 and spending caps is we're saying no, we can't be
24 trusted to make those decisions, we must
25 structurally do this so that we can't have the
3319
1 back and forth, we can't be a legislature that
2 makes hard decisions and prioritizes and does
3 have to make decisions about if we have a budget
4 that is frozen at $2.3 billion less than we
5 expected we were going to have to spend next
6 year, that we have to make the decision what
7 programmatic cuts are we making.
8 If we cut taxes by close to a
9 billion today, then what are we going to not be
10 able to spend from our treasury because we didn't
11 collect that money tomorrow?
12 I think this should all be done
13 within the context of a budget, and I think we
14 the Legislature should make the hard decisions.
15 So I'm not disagreeing with the Senator, except
16 that I don't want that responsibility taken away
17 from the Legislature. Because you know what? If
18 you do it in a vacuum, if you pass this cap and
19 we didn't have $2.3 billion projected to spend,
20 just to keep on the Governor's financial plan for
21 next year we would have to still answer the
22 question, What are we cutting?
23 And my guess is we'd be cutting
24 education. And we'd be cutting healthcare. And
25 we'd be cutting funding for our senior citizens.
3320
1 Because when you look at what the budget gets
2 spent on, those are the programs it gets spent
3 on.
4 Now, there's the added risk if you
5 have a property tax cap, which we do in the
6 state -- and some people here thought it was a
7 great idea, some of us not so much. But we have
8 one. That means we know our localities and our
9 school districts are limited to how much they can
10 increase revenue to pay for schools.
11 So hello, they have to come to the
12 state if they have a crisis. They have to come
13 to the state and say here's our reality, here's
14 our capped maximum that we can collect at home,
15 here are our ongoing costs for education, whatcha
16 gonna do for us, State of New York?
17 Now, maybe the State of New York,
18 through a legislative process with the Governor,
19 would actually have to say, Sorry, all you school
20 districts, not here, we don't have the money here
21 either.
22 But do we really want to tie our
23 hands through an official cap where we would know
24 starting off we would have just next year,
25 without even playing out future years,
3321
1 $2.3 billion less just to keep a budget at the
2 level it is technically scheduled to be at
3 without any additions?
4 Now, there are other states who
5 have done this. And I continue to check the new
6 research, and the research shows they have been
7 very painful decisions. They have lowered their
8 success rates in education, they have lowered
9 their funding for their hospitals and healthcare,
10 and they have increased the problems that they
11 see in their communities.
12 You can make that decision.
13 Sometimes you might have to make that decision.
14 I just don't want that taken away from us, the
15 elected officials and the Governor, to actually
16 have to make the best decisions we can even with
17 limited money even in bad economic times.
18 And you know what else is so
19 interesting when you look at the states that have
20 gone down this road? They've figured out how to
21 cheat. They've figured out how to cheat by
22 creating new fees that weren't general fund
23 taxes, that didn't go through the budget.
24 They've created whole new levels of local
25 district governments so the district could create
3322
1 a tax and could pay for things that way.
2 Well, the irony for New York State,
3 we're the most overdistricted state in the
4 country as far as the different levels of
5 assessing units -- fire units, school districts,
6 towns, villages. You know, there are more tax
7 assessment districts in Long Island than in the
8 entire state of California times 10.
9 So we're not a state that ought to
10 be creating more layers of government to collect
11 more sources of revenue because we would stop
12 ourselves through a cap from being able to make
13 these hard decisions. Because every time you add
14 a level of government who then creates a revenue
15 stream for themselves, you move farther and
16 farther away from having a rational, progressive
17 revenue and tax system.
18 And though we didn't all agree
19 about the advantages of the bill we just debated
20 here, I'm pretty sure all of us agree cutting
21 taxes here only to create the exact same revenue
22 through a whole series of new tax streams through
23 new levels of government is something we would
24 not agree with at all.
25 So I urge my colleagues -- okay, I
3323
1 repeat myself, I don't think this is going
2 anywhere. It's multiple years old. Even
3 Republican governors and Republican legislatures
4 throughout the country have been saying, unh,
5 unh, unh, we're not making that mistake. Or:
6 Boy, how the heck do we get ourselves out of the
7 mistake we already made. So I actually think
8 this proposal is a trend whose time came and
9 went, and it's not going to go anywhere here in
10 New York State.
11 But again, because we're supposed
12 to have substantive, deliberative debate on
13 complex issues, I urge my colleagues, whatever
14 you do with the vote tonight, know, do your
15 homework, you won't want a state where you're
16 actually trapped under the limitations of a cap.
17 And you would see it immediately, and you would
18 see it even worse long-term down the road.
19 I urge everyone to vote no,
20 Mr. President. Thank you.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
22 you, Senator Krueger.
23 Senator Robach.
24 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, just
25 quickly, because I really didn't get a chance to
3324
1 explain the bill.
2 I actually agree with much of what
3 Senator Krueger is saying but come to different
4 conclusion.
5 If we had a cap in place earlier
6 on, and why this is needed -- which some states
7 just do voluntarily, and it is their culture --
8 we wouldn't need this bill. But because we have
9 been so frequently spending and adding, it has
10 really choked the life out of businesses and
11 people. In upstate New York, people have moved,
12 citing taxes.
13 So when you say where will the
14 money come from, if we have policies that
15 generate positive revenue, that's very different
16 than getting more money out of those people who
17 are captured and left here.
18 So I agree with much of what's been
19 said; I think we need a different course of
20 action. Unless you think overspending and
21 overtaxing is guiding us to economic vitality,
22 then you should vote for this bill.
23 If you think we need to put some
24 fiscal sanity and try something a little bit more
25 moderate and something more reliable -- and I
3325
1 will point out not only has it passed this house
2 with I think 48 votes in the past, but it's also
3 tremendously popular with the public, and they're
4 asking for it in polls -- absolutely, I think it
5 makes sense to try this.
6 I'll end with this, because I don't
7 want to talk too long. But for the two years
8 that we've done this, at the insistence, kind of,
9 of the Executive, it seems to be working pretty
10 well.
11 Because it's no different than when
12 you go to the store. If somebody says "Go buy
13 whatever you want, and you don't have to worry
14 what the bill is or how much money you're going
15 to spend," you're going to make different
16 purchases than if you say this is a couple of
17 hundred dollars I've got to spend. You're going
18 to be a little bit more careful, make different
19 decisions.
20 I firmly believe, off political
21 terms -- or nonpolitical terms but directional
22 terms, that it is absolutely the direction the
23 state should take. And I am hopeful that with
24 the Governor's support we can get some -- not
25 only pass it here again, but get some action in
3326
1 the other house.
2 Thank you, Mr. President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Is there
4 any other Senator wishing to be heard?
5 Seeing none, hearing none, debate
6 is closed and the Secretary will ring the bell.
7 Read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
9 act shall take effect on the 30th day.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: As the
14 vote is being tallied, I'd like to remind members
15 we still have one bill left. If you would remain
16 close to the chamber, please.
17 Announce the results.
18 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
19 Calendar Number 299, those recorded in the
20 negative are Senators Dilan, Duane, Gianaris,
21 Hassell-Thompson, Huntley, Krueger, Montgomery,
22 Oppenheimer, Parker, Peralta, Perkins, Rivera,
23 Serrano, Smith, Squadron, Stavisky, and
24 Stewart-Cousins.
25 Absent from voting: Senators
3327
1 Adams, Espaillat, and McDonald.
2 Ayes, 39. Nays, 17.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
4 is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 795, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 3445B, an
7 act to amend the Tax Law.
8 SENATOR KRUEGER: Explanation.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: An
10 explanation has been requested by Senator
11 Krueger, Senator Libous.
12 Can I have some order in the house,
13 please.
14 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
15 Mr. President.
16 Mr. President, what this bill does
17 is it raises the sales tax exemption on food and
18 beverage sold in vending machines from 75 cents
19 to $1.50.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
21 Krueger.
22 SENATOR KRUEGER: How are you
23 tonight, Mr. President?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: I'm
25 fine. How are you?
3328
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: I'm fine, thank
2 you. If the sponsor would yield, please.
3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
4 through you, I would be happy to yield to Senator
5 Krueger.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
7 Krueger, you are right, it is now evening. Good
8 evening.
9 SENATOR KRUEGER: Okay, thank you,
10 Mr. President. I promise to narrow this down in
11 my questions for Senator Libous, so I'm just
12 cutting out some.
13 If a candy bar or a can of soda in
14 the vending machine costs, let's say, $1.25,
15 under his bill would the first 75 cents be
16 tax-exempt and the remaining 50 cents be what the
17 vendor had to pay taxes on? Or would it exempt
18 the entire product from sales tax?
19 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
20 through you. The current law is 75 cents. I
21 wish to expand it to $1.50. So anything $1.50
22 and under would be exempt.
23 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
24 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
25 yield.
3329
1 SENATOR LIBOUS: I will.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR KRUEGER: Do vending
5 machine companies pay property taxes for the
6 location their machines are located?
7 SENATOR LIBOUS: I would certainly
8 hope so, Mr. President, unless they were viewed
9 as nonprofits. But I don't know of any of them
10 that are.
11 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
12 Mr. President, my understanding is most vending
13 machines are inside of other buildings or
14 sometimes outside buildings on concrete or even
15 on a driveway path.
16 So the vending machines must pay a
17 share of property tax? How does that work?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Are you
19 asking the companies that own the machines,
20 Senator?
21 SENATOR KRUEGER: Do the companies
22 that own the vending machines today pay property
23 tax at the locations the vending machines are
24 sitting?
25 SENATOR LIBOUS: Well, it would be
3330
1 possible, Mr. President, if they're renting the
2 space, just like any renter indirectly probably
3 contributes toward property tax.
4 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
5 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
6 yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Yes, of course.
10 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
11 Do mom-and-pop stores and
12 convenience stores and other food stores that
13 also sell candy and soda and typical
14 vending-machine-type products pay property taxes?
15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, if
16 I could have a little order. There seems to
17 be -- and I have a difficult time hearing Senator
18 Krueger, and I want to respond as accurately and
19 precisely as I can to her questions.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
21 chamber is becoming noisy. I would ask, please
22 bring some quiet to the chamber so the members
23 can hear each other.
24 SENATOR LIBOUS: Based on that,
25 Mr. President, Senator, would you please reask
3331
1 your question?
2 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
3 Do mom-and-pop stores, what we
4 often call bodegas in New York City, convenience
5 stores, other food stores that sell soda and
6 candy and other vending-machine-type products, do
7 those stores pay property taxes?
8 SENATOR LIBOUS: They pay property
9 taxes, yes, they do.
10 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
11 Mr. President. Do those stores pay taxes on the
12 employees they have working in their stores
13 selling these products?
14 SENATOR LIBOUS: I would assume
15 so.
16 SENATOR KRUEGER: Does a vending
17 machine pay a payroll tax?
18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Well, a vending
19 machine, Mr. President, doesn't directly pay.
20 But the people who service the machine are
21 employees of the vending company.
22 Just to give you an example, if I
23 may. The industry in New York State, there's
24 about 61 vending companies, and they have about
25 4200 employees. And one of the reasons why we're
3332
1 promoting this is because it's been a long time
2 since there's been an increase, and they've
3 actually lost 5300 jobs. And there hadn't been
4 any changes since 2000.
5 We're also making this,
6 Mr. President, competitive with other states.
7 Connecticut and Maine have exemptions up to
8 $3.50. Vermont has no sales tax at all on
9 vending machines. So I think, directly to
10 Senator Krueger's question, is that we are trying
11 to make this a very competitive situation for
12 vending machine companies.
13 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
14 Mr. President, if the sponsor would yield.
15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Sure will.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR KRUEGER: So through that
19 answer is the sponsor implying that people are
20 going from New York State across state borders to
21 buy their candy and soda and pretzels from
22 vending machines without sales tax, as opposed to
23 buying them in the machines we have here in
24 New York?
25 SENATOR LIBOUS: I'm not implying
3333
1 that at all.
2 But I can tell you I live 4 miles
3 from the Pennsylvania border, and there might be
4 one or two people from my district who have
5 purchased in Pennsylvania out of the vending
6 machines. But I am not implying that at all,
7 Mr. President.
8 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
9 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
10 yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR KRUEGER: Does the sponsor
14 believe we should have sales tax on products that
15 are purchased over the Internet?
16 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
17 I'm not going to answer that because I don't
18 think it has anything to do with this piece of
19 legislation.
20 This legislation deals with vending
21 machines. There is in place an exemption of
22 75 cents. I am asking in my legislation to
23 increase it to $1.50 to be competitive.
24 So in all due respect to
25 Senator Krueger, we're not talking about the
3334
1 Internet, we're talking about vending machines.
2 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
3 Mr. President -- I'm going to speak on the bill
4 because of the hour.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
6 Krueger on the bill.
7 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you. But
8 I'm going to answer this last question by my
9 speaking on the bill.
10 So why do I think decisions about
11 Internet sales and whether we should have sales
12 tax relates to vending machines? Because when we
13 don't pay tax on Internet sales from other
14 states, we don't go to bricks-and-mortar stores
15 here in New York State where they pay property
16 tax, they pay business taxes, they hire people
17 and they pay payroll taxes.
18 If a vending machine company gets a
19 tax advantage over bricks-and-mortar stores that
20 sell the same products, (A) we are giving an
21 unfair advantage to one type of sales outlet over
22 another type.
23 If you go and by your food-type
24 vending-type products at a store, you are paying
25 a tax. And under the Senator's bill, if you're
3335
1 buying those products through a machine, you're
2 not paying a tax.
3 So you've given an advantage to one
4 type of company and you've given an advantage to
5 a type of company, not unlike Internet sales,
6 that don't actually hire people to sell the
7 product, who don't have a physical site in your
8 community where they rent commercial space, where
9 they pay property taxes, where they hire local
10 people. And so you've actually given a tax
11 incentive to a kind of marketer who's not
12 creating jobs in your community.
13 Now, it's true there are employees
14 who are hired by vending machine companies. I
15 understand that. But I'm talking about jobs in
16 neighborhoods in stores that sell the product. I
17 really don't understand why the State of New York
18 would want to give a tax advantage, a business
19 advantage to a kind of business -- no disrespect
20 to that business, but to a kind of business who
21 doesn't have bricks and mortar and doesn't hire
22 local people and pay local property taxes.
23 So in fact if you give an advantage
24 to the vending machine sales, you are actually
25 giving a business disadvantage to your local
3336
1 stores just like we have seen with Internet sales
2 where we lose jobs, we lose stores on
3 Main Street, we lose the tax revenue.
4 So based on the theme of today, I
5 think it's critical that we have an even playing
6 field between the types of businesses that sell
7 soda, candy, pretzels. I don't want to use any
8 actual business name, but I think most of us know
9 the kinds of food products we see in vending
10 machines.
11 So I'm not making a judgment about
12 whether we should buy those products, and I'm not
13 making a judgment whether I personally decide to
14 buy it at a store from an actual worker or buy it
15 through a machine. I just don't think the State
16 of New York ought to have a different set of tax
17 rules for these two types of businesses, who at
18 the end of the day are both selling products to
19 us.
20 I would actually, if I had my
21 druthers, want to give some kind of advantage to
22 the people who are actually hiring employees in
23 small mom-and-pop Main Street stores all over the
24 State of New York. But I won't go that far.
25 I just think it should be tax
3337
1 fairness and that there shouldn't be a tax
2 advantage to a particular kind of company who is
3 actually less labor-intensive than the types of
4 bricks-and-mortar stores we are all familiar
5 with. I urge my colleagues not to vote yes on
6 this bill.
7 Thank you, Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank
9 you, Senator Krueger.
10 Is there any other Senator wishing
11 to be heard?
12 Seeing none, hearing none, the
13 debate is closed. The Secretary will ring the
14 bell.
15 Read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect April 1, 2013.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
22 Libous to explain his vote.
23 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
24 I'd like to rise to explain my vote.
25 And just in all due respect to my
3338
1 colleague, Senator Krueger --
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Excuse
3 me, Senator Libous.
4 Please, can we have some order in
5 the chamber. Thank you.
6 Senator Libous.
7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
8 Mr. President.
9 In all due respect to my colleague
10 Senator Krueger, I just wanted to qualify a
11 couple of points.
12 There are indeed 61 vending
13 companies in New York State. These companies in
14 many cases have large warehouses. These
15 companies employ 4,270 people in New York State.
16 They do pay property taxes.
17 And many times vending machines are
18 put in locations like here in the Capitol, when
19 we're here late in the evening and the
20 delicatessen downstairs is closed and everything
21 in the concourse is closed, and vending
22 machines are utilized by members here and staff
23 and others.
24 So the industry has a purpose. And
25 I just didn't want my colleagues to think that it
3339
1 is not an industry that -- it does pay property
2 taxes, and it employs over 4,000 people.
3 So while I have great respect for
4 mom-and-pop stores -- because I grew up in one,
5 and I understand the value and the importance of
6 a small grocery store as I grew up with my
7 grandfather and my father -- I also believe that
8 there is a purpose for this industry and that
9 they do pay property taxes.
10 And I vote aye.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator
12 Libous to be recorded in the affirmative.
13 Announce the results.
14 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
15 Calendar Number 795, those recorded in the
16 negative are Senators Duane, Gianaris,
17 Hassell-Thompson, Huntley, Krueger, Oppenheimer,
18 Parker, Perkins, Rivera, Serrano, Squadron,
19 Stavisky and Stewart-Cousins.
20 Absent from voting are Senators
21 Adams, Dilan, Espaillat, and McDonald.
22 Ayes, 42. Nays, 13.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The bill
24 is passed.
25 Senator Libous, that completes the
3340
1 reading of the controversial calendar.
2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
3 could we return to motions for one moment,
4 please.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Motions
6 and resolutions.
7 Senator Libous.
8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
9 Mr. President.
10 On behalf of Senator Ball, on
11 page 38 I offer the following amendments to
12 Calendar Number 752, Senate Print 7268, and ask
13 that said bill retain its place on the Third
14 Reading Calendar.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The
16 amendments are received, and the bill will retain
17 its place on third reading.
18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, is
19 there any further business at the desk?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: There is
21 no further business.
22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
23 Mr. President.
24 There being no further business
25 before the Senate today, I move that we adjourn
3341
1 until Thursday, May 31st, at 11:00 a.m.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: On
3 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
4 Thursday, May 31st at 11:00 a.m.
5 Senate adjourned.
6 (Whereupon, at 6:43 p.m., the Senate
7 adjourned.)
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