Regular Session - March 6, 2013
693
1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
2
3
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
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6
7
8
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 March 6, 2013
11 3:51 p.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
15
16
17
18 SENATOR DAVID J. VALESKY, Acting President
19 FRANCIS W. PATIENCE, Secretary
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25
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
3 Senate will come to order.
4 I ask everyone present to please
5 rise and recite with me the Pledge of
6 Allegiance.
7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited
8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: With us
10 this afternoon to offer an invocation is
11 Apostle Leeds Jean, from True Vine Ministries
12 The Last Resort International, in Brooklyn.
13 APOSTLE JEAN: Our Father, we give
14 You praise. Our Father, we bless and magnify
15 Your name. Our Father, we invite Your holy
16 presence in this place.
17 Father God, according to the set
18 order by which we have set for this nation, we
19 pray for each and every person here, each and
20 every family represented here, each and every
21 city and state represented here.
22 We pray, Father God, and I speak
23 Your peace over each and every member here. I
24 speak Your peace, O God, over every city
25 represented here. And I speak that You, by the
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1 spirit of wisdom, by the spirit of knowledge, by
2 the spirit of counsel, You will enable,
3 Father God, each and every member, Father God,
4 that they will do what they need and have to do
5 in this place.
6 We pray and we thank You, in Jesus'
7 name, amen.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
9 reading of the Journal.
10 The Secretary will read.
11 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
12 Tuesday, March 5th, the Senate met pursuant to
13 adjournment. The Journal of Monday, March 4th,
14 was read and approved. On motion, Senate
15 adjourned.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Without
17 objection, the Journal stands approved as read.
18 Presentation of petitions.
19 Messages from the Assembly.
20 Messages from the Governor.
21 Reports of standing committees.
22 Reports of select committees.
23 Communications and reports from
24 state officers.
25 Motions and resolutions.
696
1 Senator Libous.
2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
3 Mr. President.
4 I have three motions. And as soon
5 as I put my glasses on, I'd be happy to move
6 forward here.
7 On behalf of my colleague Senator
8 Marcellino, on page 9 I offer the following
9 amendments to Calendar Number 17, Senate Print
10 1511, and I ask that the said bill please retain
11 its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
13 amendments are received, and the bill will
14 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
16 Mr. President.
17 On behalf of Senator Maziarz, on
18 page 14 I offer the following amendments to
19 Calendar Number 102, Senate Print 3806A, and ask
20 that said bill retain its place on the Third
21 Reading Calendar.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Those
23 amendments are also received, and the bill will
24 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
25 Senator Libous.
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1 SENATOR LIBOUS: On behalf of
2 Senator Ball, Mr. President, I move that the
3 following bill be discharged from its respective
4 committee and have it please recommitted with
5 instructions to strike the enacting clause. And
6 that would be Senate Print 2567.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: So
8 ordered.
9 Senator Libous.
10 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
11 Mr. President. Could we hold on one second.
12 Mr. President, at this time could we
13 have the noncontroversial reading of the
14 calendar, please.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
16 Secretary will proceed with the noncontroversial
17 reading of the calendar.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 119, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 759, an
20 act to amend the Penal Law.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read the
22 last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
24 act shall take effect on the first of November.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call the
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1 roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 59. Nays, 1.
4 Senator Montgomery recorded in the negative.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The bill
6 is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 120, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 778, an
9 act to amend the Penal Law.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read the
11 last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
13 act shall take effect on the first of November.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 59. Nays, 1.
18 Senator Montgomery recorded in the negative.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The bill
20 is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 121, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 1058, an
23 act to amend the Penal Law.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read the
25 last section.
699
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect on the first of November.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 122, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 1498, an
11 act to amend the Penal Law.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read the
13 last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect on the first of January.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The bill
21 is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 123, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 1507, an
24 act to amend the Penal Law.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read the
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1 last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
3 act shall take effect on the first of November.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Announce
8 the results.
9 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
10 Calendar Number 123, those recorded in the
11 negative are Senators Montgomery and Perkins.
12 Ayes, 58. Nays, 2.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The bill
14 is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 124, by Senator Grisanti, Senate Print 1590, an
17 act to amend the Penal Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read the
19 last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
21 act shall take effect on the 180th day.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call the
23 roll.
24 (The Secretary called the roll.)
25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. Nays,
701
1 1. Senator Montgomery recorded in the negative.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The bill
3 is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 125, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 2040, an
6 act to amend the Penal Law.
7 SENATOR GIANARIS: Lay it aside.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The bill
9 is laid aside.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 126, by Senator Golden, Senate Print 2174, an act
12 to amend the Civil Rights Law.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read the
14 last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call the
18 roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. Nays,
21 1. Senator Perkins recorded in the negative.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The bill
23 is passed.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 127, by Senator Young, Senate Print 2205, an act
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1 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read the
3 last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The bill
11 is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 128, by Senator Klein, Senate Print 2322, an act
14 to amend the Penal Law.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read the
16 last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect on the 90th day.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
23 Calendar Number 128, those recorded in the
24 negative are Senators Montgomery and Perkins.
25 Ayes, 59. Nays, 2.
703
1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The bill
2 is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 129, by Senator Gallivan, Senate Print 2511, an
5 act to amend the Penal Law.
6 SENATOR GIANARIS: Lay it aside.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The bill
8 is laid aside.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 133, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 736, an
11 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read the
13 last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The bill
21 is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 135, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 753, an
24 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read the
704
1 last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect on the 120th day.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The bill
9 is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 139, by Senator Lanza, Senate Print 2455, an act
12 to enact.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read the
14 last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
16 act shall take effect on the 180th day.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call the
18 roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The bill
22 is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 141, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 3302, an
25 act to amend the Public Health Law.
705
1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read the
2 last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The bill
10 is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 142,
12 by Senator Little, Senate Print 3495, an act to
13 authorize certain healthcare professionals.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read the
15 last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This act
17 shall take effect July 24, 2013.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The bill
23 is passed.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 144, by Senator Griffo, Senate Print 2755, an act
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1 to amend Chapter 912 of the Laws of 1920.
2 SENATOR GIANARIS: Lay it aside.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The bill
4 is laid aside.
5 Senator Libous, that completes the
6 noncontroversial reading of the calendar.
7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
8 Mr. President.
9 At this time could we move to the
10 controversial reading of the calendar.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
12 Secretary will proceed with the reading of the
13 controversial calendar. I ask that the bells be
14 rung and that members come to the chamber so that
15 we may proceed.
16 The Secretary will place Calendar
17 Number 125 before the Senate.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 125, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 2040, an
20 act to amend the Penal Law.
21 SENATOR SQUADRON: Explanation.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
23 Bonacic, an explanation was requested by
24 Senator Squadron.
25 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you,
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1 Mr. President.
2 Let me tell you, first of all, what
3 the existing law is. And this legislation is an
4 amendment to the existing law that we wish to
5 pass. It concerns inmates and how they behave in
6 a prison towards correction officers.
7 And right now it is a crime for an
8 inmate to cause blood, seminal fluid, urine or
9 feces to come into contact with a correction
10 officer who that inmate believes is a
11 correctional officer.
12 And the purpose of this legislation
13 is an amendment to 240.32 of the Penal Law. And
14 the reason for this coming forward, there was a
15 president of the Orange County PBA by the name of
16 David Estrada, and he said the law has to be
17 clarified, because if there is an intent to place
18 these substances on a correction officer, to
19 intentionally try to spit in his direction, these
20 things are not covered.
21 And they gave the specific instance
22 where there was a toilet bowl that was emptied on
23 a correction officer, placed on his body. There
24 was no blood, there was no urine, there was no
25 feces. And that was dismissed because the
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1 existing legislation did not cover it.
2 And what we want to do is to clarify
3 that language, that if you spit or you place
4 these substances on a correction officer, then
5 you will be guilty of a crime. And that's what
6 that legislation does.
7 These correction officers are always
8 in harm's way with the job that they do, and it's
9 another protection that we're trying to put
10 forward to make sure that inmates are discouraged
11 from coming with creative ways to do harmful
12 things without coming under the existing law.
13 That's the purpose of the
14 legislation.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
16 Squadron.
17 SENATOR SQUADRON: If the Senator
18 would yield.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
20 you.
21 Senator Bonacic, do you yield to a
22 question?
23 SENATOR BONACIC: Of course.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
25 Bonacic yields.
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1 SENATOR SQUADRON: First of all, I
2 thank the sponsor for his explanation of the
3 bill. And certainly the goal to protect
4 correction officers who are in harm's way day in
5 and day out is a laudable one.
6 Let me just ask the sponsor, do you
7 need to purposefully have a corrections officer
8 come into contact with saliva in order to be
9 guilty under this bill?
10 SENATOR BONACIC: Are you saying
11 that the burden is on the correction officer to
12 get in the way of what the inmate is doing? Or
13 does the inmate have the intent to do this to the
14 correction officer?
15 SENATOR SQUADRON: Is the inmate
16 required to have intent?
17 SENATOR BONACIC: Yes, he does.
18 The inmate has to have the intent to do this.
19 SENATOR SQUADRON: And if the
20 sponsor would continue to yield.
21 SENATOR BONACIC: Yes, I will.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
23 Bonacic yields.
24 SENATOR SQUADRON: When you say "do
25 this," what do you mean? Can you just describe
710
1 what "this" is?
2 SENATOR BONACIC: Senator Squadron,
3 could you speak a little more into the mike and
4 more slowly? I'm not hearing you that well.
5 SENATOR SQUADRON: Absolutely.
6 The sponsor in his response to the
7 last question said the inmate would have to have
8 intent to do this. I'm just wondering what
9 "this" is, if the sponsor could just describe
10 "this."
11 SENATOR BONACIC: If the inmate,
12 let's say, has AIDS and the inmate -- and there's
13 a correction officer that's in the proximity of
14 the inmate. And the inmate spits, intentionally
15 spits at the correction officer. Whether he hits
16 him or not, it's a crime if he intentionally
17 tried to place the spit on the correction
18 officer.
19 SENATOR SQUADRON: If the sponsor
20 would continue to yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
22 Bonacic, do you continue to yield?
23 SENATOR BONACIC: I do.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
25 Senator yields.
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1 SENATOR SQUADRON: Thank you.
2 Just to be clear, because as I read
3 the legislation, there's certainly an intent
4 component here, but the intent is to harass,
5 annoy, threaten or alarm a person, as the chair
6 of Codes and I discussed in a committee meeting
7 last week. I think there are some colleagues who
8 think that I have spoken on the floor
9 occasionally with the intent to annoy, harass, or
10 aggravate a colleague.
11 SENATOR BONACIC: I would never say
12 that, Danny.
13 (Laughter.)
14 SENATOR SQUADRON: I appreciate
15 that.
16 But the intent, as I read the bill,
17 is not actually on the contact with the saliva,
18 in the case of the first part of the amendment,
19 but actually is the intent to irritate. And then
20 the contact with the saliva could be mistaken; is
21 that correct?
22 SENATOR BONACIC: When you say
23 "mistaken," I gave the example of a toilet bowl
24 being emptied on a correction officer. There was
25 an intent to harm. But under the legislation,
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1 when you try to place something on a correction
2 officer, the language is not clear under our
3 existing legislation. And I'm trying to give
4 more clarity to the definition of what already
5 exists.
6 And because there was no blood,
7 there was no fetus {sic}, there was no urine in
8 the contents of that fluid, the prosecution could
9 not -- there was no crime against the correction
10 officer. And we're trying to cover those
11 specific situations that go on in a correction
12 facility.
13 SENATOR SQUADRON: Would the
14 sponsor continue to yield?
15 SENATOR BONACIC: Yes, I would, of
16 course.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR SQUADRON: And certainly I
20 hear the sponsor. Inadvertent or mistaken
21 contact, causing inadvertent or mistaken contact
22 with the contents of a toilet bowl are one
23 thing. Inadvertent or mistaken contact with
24 saliva, when the only intent is to aggravate or
25 harass, is separate.
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1 So let me just ask -- I understand
2 the example about the toilet bowl. And certainly
3 that seems like a situation that does need to be
4 remedied legislatively. Are there any examples
5 of saliva that have not been able to be dealt
6 with?
7 SENATOR BONACIC: No, not saliva,
8 because presently it is covered. Let me give you
9 an example. As I said before, the existing law,
10 if I cause blood, seminal fluid, urine or
11 feces -- what you're saying, you're raising the
12 issue specifically of saliva.
13 Now, normally, if an inmate is
14 spitting, you have to prove that he had an intent
15 to want to spit at the correction officer.
16 Whether he hits him or not is not the crime; the
17 crime was to spit at him. So it's again covering
18 a situation where you're placing a fluid -- in
19 this case, saliva -- on that correction officer.
20 And you know, I guess it can be a communicable
21 disease.
22 So that's the purpose of this
23 legislation, to give clarity to the existing
24 law. If you ask me how many instances there are
25 where they've been spitting at inmates {sic}, I
714
1 could not honestly tell you. But I will tell you
2 this, that in 2011 this bill passed this house 59
3 to 0 and in 2012, February of 2012, it passed 57
4 to 3. This is the same bill.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
6 Squadron.
7 SENATOR SQUADRON: If the sponsor
8 would continue to yield.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
10 Bonacic?
11 SENATOR BONACIC: I do.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR SQUADRON: I'm not sure
15 that I have more clarity at this point on it.
16 Just to understand, and then I'll speak on the
17 bill. So the final question here.
18 The sponsor seems to have said
19 that -- and I just want to understand the
20 sponsor's intent -- that this creates a felony if
21 there's the intent to spit at a corrections
22 officer and contact is made, where currently that
23 may or may not be the law, and this is just a
24 clarification. Is that the sponsor's intent?
25 SENATOR BONACIC: The answer is
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1 yes. The key to the criminal activity is the
2 intent to do harm. That's the substance of the
3 crime. And that would be a way of doing it,
4 through saliva. It would be a question of fact
5 whether he truly intended to spit. If he missed,
6 you know, it's a stronger argument that there was
7 not intent to spit on the officer.
8 But what we're trying to do is
9 discourage conduct that puts our correction
10 officers in harm's way. I gave you the flagrant
11 example of placing the toilet bowl. But any kind
12 of fluid that you would direct with intent
13 towards an officer by placing it on him would be
14 encompassed in this legislation.
15 There's -- the existing language
16 under the law is not clear, and we're trying to
17 give it more definition. The state correction
18 officers have asked for this legislation, and the
19 police benevolent associations have asked for
20 this legislation.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
22 Squadron.
23 SENATOR SQUADRON: Thank you. On
24 the bill.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
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1 Squadron on the bill.
2 SENATOR SQUADRON: And I thank the
3 sponsor for answering my questions. And again,
4 you know, the intent here is significant.
5 Certainly the example -- call it the toilet bowl
6 example -- that the sponsor gave seems to be one
7 that does need a legislative fix.
8 The issue here is that this law
9 vastly expands beyond that to any inadvertent
10 contact with saliva. And I've actually got to
11 tell you, I agree with the sponsor's intent a lot
12 more than the reality of the bill here. If only
13 the intent made the code.
14 The issue here is you've committed a
15 crime under this statute if you have the intent
16 to harass, annoy, threaten or alarm a person and
17 then there is some contact with saliva. And
18 you've created a felony for someone without any
19 additional requirement at all.
20 So if someone is being harassing,
21 annoying, threatening, alarming and there's
22 contact with their saliva, even if it's placed --
23 I notice we also add the word "expectorate,"
24 which may or may not exist in the criminal code
25 as it is. But even if it's placed on or
717
1 inadvertently makes contact with a corrections
2 officer, that is a felony.
3 That just doesn't make sense and
4 doesn't actually sound consistent with the
5 sponsor's intent. I think the sponsor's intent,
6 the intent of those who support this bill is a
7 laudable one, and I look forward to seeing a bill
8 that I can support, certainly to deal with the
9 example that the sponsor talks about, certainly
10 to deal with any other way in which it's not
11 possible to protect corrections officers right
12 now.
13 I don't think it's in anyone's
14 interest to create a felony out of spittle in an
15 irritating way. It's just not -- it's not a
16 felony. It doesn't seem to be the sponsor's
17 intent, the sponsor and I agree on that. So I
18 would really urge that we withdraw the bill so we
19 can pass a bill that meets the sponsor's intent,
20 deal with what we can, not have a one-house bill
21 that passes here annually and is not going to
22 become law.
23 So I would urge my colleagues to
24 vote no on the bill or urge the sponsor to
25 withdraw the bill so that we can see one that
718
1 actually is going to solve the issue of
2 protecting corrections officers who it seems
3 currently need to be protected with a stronger
4 law, not just a bill that would create a felon
5 out of someone who has a spittle problem.
6 Thank you, Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
8 you, Senator Squadron.
9 Senator Nozzolio.
10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President,
11 on the bill.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
13 Nozzolio on the bill.
14 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President
15 and my colleagues, I am applauding Senator
16 Bonacic for taking this issue up.
17 This issue is one that is an issue
18 of workplace safety. It's an issue that we in
19 this house established many years ago a course of
20 conduct that we would not accept in our
21 correctional facilities in this state. The
22 course of conduct was that those brave men and
23 women, those correction officers and other
24 correctional employees who work behind the walls
25 of our prisons, who walk the toughest law
719
1 enforcement beat in America, who do so under
2 extreme peril, would be protected by the laws of
3 this state.
4 And the laws of this state, up until
5 a decade ago, were woefully inadequate regarding
6 inmates who use and deploy their bodily fluids as
7 weapons. We're not talking about a dance hall,
8 we're not talking about a playground, we're not
9 talking about an athletic field, we're talking
10 about one of the most dangerous places in
11 America. We're talking about very serious,
12 hardened, violent criminals.
13 We're addressing this issue under
14 Senator Bonacic's legislation for what purpose?
15 We're trying to protect those brave men and women
16 who serve at tremendous peril each and every
17 day.
18 Senator Squadron's arguments were
19 raised in committee. I thought they were
20 dispelled in committee. The fact of the matter
21 is this Senate has a choice. The choice is
22 simple. You either protect correction officers
23 and those who work in the most stressful
24 conditions in this state, or you do not. That's
25 the choice you have.
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1 And I thank Senator Bonacic for
2 trying to add to the protections that already
3 exist for -- and the consequences of which have
4 been prosecuted for those who have used other
5 bodily fluids as weapons. There are cases across
6 this state where the intentional use has led to a
7 felony conviction. And believe it or not, that
8 has also led to a reduction in this type of
9 conduct in the first place. It is a deterrent to
10 others who hope to gain advantage to use an
11 attack against COs particularly, but other
12 correctional personnel like nurses, like
13 teachers, like custodial personnel.
14 Thank you, Senator Bonacic, for this
15 legislation. It will enhance workplace safety in
16 one of the toughest workplace environments that
17 we have in our state today.
18 Mr. President, I support this
19 legislation and hope it will become law.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
21 you, Senator Nozzolio.
22 Senator Hoylman.
23 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Mr. President, on
24 the bill.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
721
1 Hoylman on the bill.
2 SENATOR HOYLMAN: I wanted to make
3 clear that I believe that the kernel of this bill
4 is actually based in a profound misunderstanding
5 as to how HIV and AIDS is transmitted.
6 You heard the sponsor say that one
7 of the concerns was that if an inmate spits AIDS,
8 could be transmitted. Well, the fact of the
9 matter is, Mr. President, AIDS and HIV is not
10 transmitted by casual contact, which includes an
11 individual spitting on another individual.
12 In fact, I'll read for you the
13 New York State Department of Health regulations,
14 Section 6310: "Circumstances that involve
15 significant risk shall not include exposure to
16 urine, feces, sputum, nasal secretions and
17 saliva."
18 Mr. President, this bill is
19 addressing a problem that does not exist in the
20 reality of science or health, and I oppose this
21 bill.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
23 you, Senator Hoylman.
24 Senator Bonacic to close the debate.
25 SENATOR BONACIC: Just on the bill.
722
1 The existing law does not make it a
2 crime to do an unintentional act. That's point
3 number one. Okay?
4 What we are trying to do here is to
5 say that any intentional act to injure, harass,
6 or aggravate a correction officer has to be
7 protected and that conduct has to be discouraged
8 by an inmate. That's the purpose of this
9 legislation.
10 So Senator Squadron and I focused a
11 lot in our discussions, and I kept saying intent,
12 intent, intent. It was obvious with the toilet
13 bowl. That was an outrageous act that you could
14 relate to.
15 And the spitting maybe -- some
16 Senators say it's not as outrageous and maybe it
17 shouldn't fall into that category. That's what
18 I'm sensing from the discussions. But I want to
19 make it clear. Existing law, unintentional act
20 is not a crime, no matter what the activity is or
21 what may or may happen between an inmate and a
22 correction officer.
23 But if it's an intentional act,
24 whether it's spitting, fetus {sic}, urine,
25 throwing a toilet bowl at him or everything in
723
1 it, we want to make that a crime.
2 Thank you, Mr. President. I vote
3 yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
5 you, Senator Bonacic.
6 Seeing no other Senator who wishes
7 to be heard, the debate is closed. The Secretary
8 will ring the bells. All Senators should proceed
9 immediately to the chamber so that we may move
10 forward with the roll call.
11 The Secretary will read the last
12 section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect on the first of November.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Announce
19 the results.
20 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
21 Calendar Number 125, those recorded in the
22 negative are Senators Hoylman, Krueger,
23 Montgomery, Sanders and Squadron.
24 Absent from voting: Senator Adams.
25 Ayes, 56. Nays, 5.
724
1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The bill
2 is passed.
3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
5 Libous.
6 SENATOR LIBOUS: Before we continue
7 the reading of the controversial calendar, I
8 would ask all members that we have two more bills
9 to do today. We need you to be in your seats to
10 vote on those bills. I would ask that if you
11 have business, keep it directly outside the
12 chamber, because we all would like to move the
13 process along and we want to be fair to all of
14 the colleagues here.
15 And we understand that there are
16 meetings and things going on because of
17 negotiations. Please let your respective staff
18 people know exactly where you're going to be,
19 because we will move along without you if, after
20 a reasonable amount of time, you are not
21 present.
22 Thank you, Mr. President. If we
23 could continue with the calendar.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
25 you, Senator Libous.
725
1 The Secretary will place Calendar
2 Number 129 before the Senate.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 129, by Senator Gallivan, Senate Print 2511, an
5 act to amend the Penal Law.
6 SENATOR KRUEGER: Explanation.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
8 Gallivan.
9 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you,
10 Mr. President.
11 This bill is known as the
12 Trafficking Victims Protection and Justice Act.
13 It came about as a result of a group of
14 advocates, along with prosecutors who work with
15 sex trafficking victims, who came to us,
16 identified some problem areas specifically in
17 helping victims in trying to work to shut down
18 sex trafficking.
19 And essentially what it does, it
20 amends a number of laws in an effort to increase
21 the accountability and penalties for traffickers
22 and those that are patronizing those that are
23 victims of this, and conforms the ages of victims
24 in certain prostitution offenses to the ages of
25 victims in the rape offenses in order to protect
726
1 more children who are victims.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
3 you, Senator Gallivan.
4 Senator Krueger.
5 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you,
6 Mr. President. If through you the sponsor would
7 yield, please.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
9 Gallivan, do you yield?
10 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
14 I don't have objections to what's in
15 this bill. My concern is why it's missing two
16 sections that were actually in Senator Lanza's
17 bill.
18 So the first section that's in
19 Senator Lanza's bill but is not here -- and
20 otherwise they're pretty parallel bills,
21 Mr. President -- would be the Section 6 in
22 Senator Lanza's bill, S2135, which is a same-as
23 with Assemblywoman Paulin.
24 There was a section that the
25 defendant's participation in the offense was a
727
1 result of having been a victim of sex trafficking
2 under Section 230.34 of the Penal Law, or a
3 victim of trafficking under the Trafficking
4 Victims Protection Act, that that would be an
5 affirmative defense for not being found guilty of
6 prostitution.
7 And then Section 25, which again is
8 in Senator Lanza's bill but is not in Senator
9 Gallivan's bill, which would amend the Criminal
10 Procedure Law to amend the section heading and to
11 add -- oh, I don't need to go through all the
12 technical, but that would allow, if brought for
13 arraignment upon information, simplified
14 information or misdemeanor complaint charging
15 such an offense on the trafficked woman who's
16 picked up in this prostitution, that this case
17 could be brought to the Family Court and removed
18 from the Criminal Court.
19 So it's a very long question, but my
20 question is for Senator Gallivan, why are we not
21 supporting the more complete bill that we
22 actually have in this house through Senator
23 Lanza's bill?
24 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Through you,
25 Mr. President. I am not familiar with the
728
1 provisions of Senator Lanza's bill, as it's not
2 before us.
3 This particular bill was passed in
4 exactly the form that it is in now last year,
5 unanimously, by Senator Saland. As Senator
6 Saland is no longer with us and this is a bill
7 that I strongly support, I took it up and now ask
8 my colleagues for their support as well.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
10 Krueger.
11 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
12 Through you, Mr. President, would
13 Senator Lanza yield for a question?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
15 Lanza, do you yield to Senator Krueger?
16 SENATOR LANZA: No, Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
18 Krueger, Senator Lanza does not yield.
19 SENATOR KRUEGER: Oh, I'm very
20 sorry.
21 On the bill, Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
23 Krueger on the legislation.
24 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
25 As I am pointing out, I have no
729
1 objection to Senator Gallivan's bill and I'm
2 encouraging my colleagues to vote for this bill.
3 But -- and he's justified in explaining his bill
4 is before the floor.
5 His bill doesn't have a same-as in
6 the Assembly. Senator Lanza's bill does have a
7 same-as in the Assembly. So if Senator Lanza had
8 risen, all I was going to ask him was would he
9 bring his bill to the floor because in fact we
10 would then have a same-as passing in both houses
11 and it would be a more complete version of what
12 the advocates have been asking us to do in this
13 house for many years.
14 So I am certainly happy to vote for
15 this bill today but disappointed that we're not
16 voting on Senator Lanza's more complete bill,
17 because I believe that one of the important
18 lessons from human trafficking is that we need to
19 do everything we can to prevent it from happening
20 but we also have to make sure that our laws do
21 not either demonize or continue to have the
22 penalties on young people who are being exploited
23 by human trafficking by being forced into a life
24 of sexual prostitution.
25 So I strongly urge this house to
730
1 rush to bring Senator Lanza's bill to the floor
2 as soon as possible, and then perhaps we can
3 accomplish all our goals through a two-house
4 same-as bill.
5 Thank you, Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
7 you, Senator Krueger.
8 Senator Gallivan.
9 SENATOR GALLIVAN: There currently
10 is not -- through you, Mr. President -- a same-as
11 bill. I'm working with several members of the
12 Assembly who indicated support, they would bring
13 this forward.
14 I would urge, because of this issue,
15 that we pass this, that we try to stop the
16 scourge of human sex trafficking as soon as
17 possible. If we need to do more, we can be
18 working at the same time to do more. And I
19 certainly would look forward to working with my
20 colleague Senator Lanza in advancing further
21 measures.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
23 you, Senator Gallivan.
24 Seeing no other Senators who wish to
25 speak, the debate is closed.
731
1 The Secretary will ring the bell.
2 Senators are urged to come to the chamber so we
3 may move forward with the roll call.
4 Read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 35. This
6 act shall take effect on the 90th day.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call the
8 roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
11 Montgomery to explain her vote.
12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes,
13 Mr. President. Thank you.
14 I'm going to -- obviously we all
15 have a great interest in dealing with the whole
16 issue of sex trafficking. And I believe, knowing
17 that Senator Lanza does have a bill, I would
18 prefer to be able to vote on that bill because it
19 does do what we would like to see done.
20 And since it's not before us and
21 this is a one-house bill, I'm going to vote no.
22 And I certainly hope that I will have an
23 opportunity to vote for Senator Lanza's bill very
24 shortly.
25 Thank you. I'm voting no.
732
1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
2 Montgomery to be recorded in the negative.
3 Announce the results.
4 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
5 Calendar Number 129, those recorded in the
6 negative are Senators Montgomery and Perkins.
7 Absent from voting: Senator Adams.
8 Ayes, 59. Nays, 2.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The bill
10 is passed.
11 The Secretary will read.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 144, by Senator Griffo, Senate Print 2755, an act
14 to amend Chapter 912 of the Laws of 1920.
15 SENATOR KRUEGER: Explanation.
16 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,
17 before you bring the bill up, if I could ask for
18 some order in the chamber. We have a very
19 important debate coming up, and I know there's a
20 lot of folks here today and there's a lot going
21 on, but I do want to hear the debate. I'm sure
22 there will be questions of Senator Griffo, and
23 I'm anxious to hear how he's going to answer
24 them.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
733
1 you, Senator Libous. Point well-taken.
2 We ask that the noise be kept to a
3 minimum.
4 Senator Griffo, Senator Krueger has
5 asked for an explanation.
6 SENATOR GRIFFO: Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 I'm going to be succinct in my
9 explanation and be available for questions. This
10 bill has come before this house now -- this is
11 the fourth time which we have considered and
12 passed the bill.
13 Essentially the purpose of this bill
14 is to authorize the New York State Athletic
15 Commission, at their discretion and at their
16 direction, to add the mixed martial arts to a
17 list of combat sports that may be held in
18 New York State through matches and exhibitions in
19 New York.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
21 Krueger.
22 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you,
23 Mr. President.
24 I appreciate the sponsor's
25 explanation. And he's right, I do have some
734
1 questions of him, if he doesn't mind.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
3 Griffo, do you yield?
4 SENATOR GRIFFO: Certainly.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
8 So my understanding of mixed martial
9 arts, also called caged fighting or ultimate
10 fighting, which is a hybrid of traditional and
11 nontraditional fight maneuvers, explicitly allows
12 for punches and elbows to a grounded opponent,
13 meaning an opponent who's already fallen to the
14 ground.
15 If your bill passed, would that be
16 allowed to happen in fights that took place in
17 New York State?
18 SENATOR GRIFFO: Mr. President,
19 through you.
20 Senator Krueger, the mixed martial
21 arts have very specific rules and regulations
22 which govern the competition, much similar to
23 what we experience in professional boxing right
24 now relative to weight classes, relative to time
25 limits on rounds, with medical professionals
735
1 on-site doing examinations prior, during and
2 after the competition.
3 So there are certain rules allowed.
4 This is the mixed martial arts, which means
5 there's a combination of grappling, boxing,
6 jujitsu. And everything that is entailed in
7 those aspects of sport would be allowed under the
8 rules.
9 But again, I want to emphasize, when
10 you talk about specifics and what may be germane
11 to this sport, that there are very stringent
12 regulations on what is done in the competition,
13 in the same manner that we witness wrestling and
14 boxing matches and bouts.
15 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
16 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
17 yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
19 Griffo?
20 SENATOR GRIFFO: Sure.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
24 Well, you're absolutely right, there
25 are standards that are applied to other
736
1 professional sports. But I actually don't think
2 in boxing or wrestling you are allowed to punch
3 or elbow a grounded opponent, which was why I was
4 asking about whether your bill would allow this
5 to take place with mixed martial arts here in
6 this state.
7 So to further my questions, my
8 understanding is that mixed martial arts has a
9 disproportionate amount of injuries with
10 lacerations to the -- facial lacerations the most
11 common injury, accounting for nearly half of all
12 injuries, followed by hand lacerations, followed
13 by nose lacerations, followed by eye
14 lacerations.
15 If your bill became the law in
16 New York State, would caged fighting include
17 blows to the face, hands, feet, knees and elbows
18 without any kind of padding worn by the fighters
19 as it is in boxing, and would it allow punches
20 and kicks to the head?
21 SENATOR GRIFFO: Mr. President,
22 through you.
23 Senator Krueger, first of all, I
24 guess you can refer to it a number of different
25 ways, but if we're going to be accurate, this is
737
1 the mixed martial arts. So to call it something
2 different is just a matter of personal opinion.
3 And while I respect that, I think for the sake of
4 accuracy what we're talking about is a sport
5 known as the mixed martial arts.
6 There are different brands to the
7 sport with names such as the Ultimate Fighting
8 Championship, but we are dealing with this
9 specific issue and with this particular bill on
10 the sport of the mixed martial arts. Which is
11 now allowed in 48 states across this country.
12 Along with that, there are rules and
13 regulations which allow for certain activity in
14 the match or the exhibition, which include a
15 number of things, as I indicated earlier:
16 Grappling moves, boxing technique.
17 So some of the things that you
18 describe from a jab or an uppercut or a takedown,
19 all these things are part of the sports that I
20 have indicated to you priorly, part of wrestling
21 or boxing. Some are jujitsu. It's all combined
22 together. And so as a result of that, whatever
23 is allowed in those specific sports are now
24 combined under the mixed martial arts and
25 therefore a part of the competition.
738
1 What I want to state, though,
2 Senator Krueger, is that you are inaccurate as
3 far as what you are indicating relative to
4 injuries. As I've said before, this sport
5 obviously has really evolved since its
6 inception. And there are very stringent rules
7 and regulations and a number of measures put in
8 place to ensure not only the safety of the
9 participants but also of the spectators that come
10 to see this sport.
11 And it is a sport which is growing
12 significantly in fan base across this nation.
13 Not only can you now view this particular sport
14 on cable or pay-per-view, but also on network
15 television.
16 So relative to safety rules, some of
17 the things there are not -- for instance, to give
18 you what cannot be done, you are not allowed
19 strikes to the back of the head. There are no
20 small joint manipulations allowed. There are no
21 groin strikes allowed. There's no hair pulling
22 or head butting allowed. There are no kicks to
23 the head of a downed opponent. So there are a
24 number of things that are not allowed in order to
25 ensure the safety of those fighters.
739
1 And what we're doing in this bill is
2 to allow the State Athletic Commission, which
3 supports this bill -- Commissioner Melvina Lathan
4 has been a strong supporter of allowing the sport
5 here in the State of New York. And they would
6 have the opportunity, if they believe that
7 something different also should be taken into
8 consideration and implemented, because of a
9 concern for safety in any way, this authorizes
10 them, as I indicated in my explanation of the
11 bill, to incorporate whatever provisions or
12 additional regulations that they feel are
13 necessary and appropriate to ensure safety.
14 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
15 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
16 yield.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
18 Griffo?
19 SENATOR GRIFFO: Yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR KRUEGER: Could Senator
23 Griffo tell me what other professional sports
24 other than MMA --
25 SENATOR GRIFFO: Thank you.
740
1 (Laughter.)
2 SENATOR KRUEGER: -- allow a flurry
3 of strikes to a grounded opponent known as a
4 "ground and pound"?
5 SENATOR GRIFFO: Well, I --
6 Mr. President, through you. Senator Krueger, I
7 guess there's a number of techniques in a number
8 of sports. And "ground and pound" is a
9 terminology used in the mixed martial arts as
10 part of what has developed in this particular
11 sport.
12 There may be similar moves -- and I
13 was not a wrestler or involved in that, but I
14 know there are different grappling techniques
15 that could be utilized and takedowns and things
16 that -- and half nelsons, full nelsons. So there
17 are things that exercised and utilized in
18 professional sport, whether it be wrestling or
19 boxing, that are also in that particular sport
20 allowed. So something may be a little more
21 unique to this sport but similar to what is
22 taking place in other sport.
23 Because again, as I indicated prior,
24 the concept of the mixed martial arts is a
25 combination of a variety of sport.
741
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
2 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
3 yield.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
5 Griffo, do you continue to yield?
6 SENATOR GRIFFO: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
10 Yes, I understand it's a combination
11 of a number of sports, but I actually don't find
12 other sports that allow the ground and pound as
13 an approvable activity.
14 But does MMA -- if we pass your
15 bill, will the fighters here in New York State be
16 allowed to use the chokehold, also known as the
17 submission hold? Which according to websites for
18 the sport, the chokehold occurs when pressure is
19 applied to the neck in an attempt to cut off
20 blood flow to the brain.
21 Can you tell me what other sports
22 that we have legally participating in in New York
23 State where you are allowed to and it is even
24 described as a chokehold, attempting to cut off
25 blood flow to the brain? Because I distinctly
742
1 remember passing a law in here that doing that
2 outside of a ring was actually against the law.
3 So your bill would allow that to take place in
4 the ring?
5 SENATOR GRIFFO: Mr. President,
6 through you. Again, Senator Krueger, let me
7 reiterate that there are various aspects to the
8 sport. For instance, in professional boxing
9 you're not allowed to have a takedown and yet in
10 wrestling you are allowed to have a takedown.
11 So in this particular sport, by
12 combining boxing, wrestling, jujitsu, muay thai,
13 some elements of kickboxing, you have a number of
14 these things which now take place where
15 individually they are in a sport; now you see
16 this collectively.
17 So there are specific aspects that
18 are allowed in each of those particular sports,
19 but the risk of injury is actually less severe in
20 this sport because -- for instance, in
21 professional boxing you are dealing with a
22 knockout or technical knockout, which you
23 referred to here in a hold where someone may get
24 someone in a grappling hold where they can tap
25 out, or it's a submission. As you call it, a
743
1 submission. It is submission, where they can
2 actually tap out and not continue to fight.
3 You don't have that opportunity
4 unless you throw the towel in in professional
5 boxing, for instance, where you would have
6 somebody have to throw the towel in in order to
7 stop a fight.
8 Or a doctor at any point in time can
9 prevent a fight if they believe that there is a
10 risk of injury or that it is a situation that
11 requires their attention. This is the important
12 aspect of this right now, that any medical
13 professional who are at ringside can stop any
14 fight at any time for a reason that they feel
15 poses a danger to the combatant.
16 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
17 Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
19 Krueger.
20 SENATOR KRUEGER: Like in the crime
21 of choking someone until they pass out?
22 Fighters, if they have passed out, can't tap out
23 because they've passed out from being choked and
24 having the blood cut off.
25 And again, I don't believe Senator
744
1 Griffo answered my question what other
2 professional sports allow a chokehold where
3 pressure is applied to the neck in an attempt to
4 cut off the blood flow to the brain.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
6 Krueger, are you speaking on the bill or would
7 you like Senator --
8 SENATOR KRUEGER: No, I'm just
9 pointing out that I believe his answer was no, he
10 didn't know of other sports that allow that.
11 Let's talk about -- if through you,
12 Mr. President, the sponsor will continue to
13 yield.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
15 Griffo, do you continue to yield?
16 SENATOR GRIFFO: I do.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR GRIFFO: I would like to
20 add, before I yield, Senator Krueger, that I made
21 an effort to try to provide you information. It
22 may not be satisfactory to what you want, but I
23 don't have a list of each of the activities that
24 are allowed under the particular sports that I
25 discussed that are a part of the mixed martial
745
1 arts.
2 Beyond that, I also said to you that
3 if there is any danger posed to the athlete at
4 any time in the manner in which you describe --
5 which I believe would require a physician's
6 attention -- they would not allow that. So to
7 surmise or to indicate that they would allow
8 significant risk or injury as you have described
9 it, I think is inaccurate and really would not be
10 allowed by the professionals, by the rules and
11 regulations not only that exist but by the
12 professionals who are at ringside, medical
13 professionals particularly.
14 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
15 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
16 yield.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
18 Griffo.
19 SENATOR GRIFFO: Sure.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR KRUEGER: So as I was
23 reading about the sport and some of the stars of
24 the sport, there seems to be a disproportionate
25 and I find disturbing theme of neo-Nazi
746
1 messaging -- tattoos, statements referencing the
2 Nazis and skinheads supporting the killing of
3 Jews. How are we going to make sure that's not
4 happening in our state?
5 SENATOR GRIFFO: Mr. President,
6 through you. Senator Krueger, with all due
7 respect, I would hope that -- and that's why,
8 again, we are trying to ensure through this bill
9 that the State Athletic Commission has the
10 responsibility and the authorization for all
11 oversight, monitoring and regulation of the sport
12 here in the state. And I am sure that there
13 would be no one that would allow such activity or
14 imagery to be portrayed.
15 Now, to the best of my knowledge, I
16 have not seen such as you have described, nor has
17 anybody in any way indicated that such activity
18 exists.
19 When you discuss the tattoos, I
20 think we're looking at a culture and society of
21 the 21st century where, whether we agree with it
22 or not, you see a lot of people with tattoos, you
23 see a lot of body piercing right now. I
24 personally don't agree with a lot of that, but I
25 know that it seems to be a generational issue.
747
1 And, Senator Rivera, do you have a
2 tattoo?
3 (Laughter.)
4 SENATOR GRIFFO: I'm sorry.
5 So my point is I think some of this
6 as far as the look of the athlete, I think it may
7 be also a reflection of contemporary times,
8 whether we agree or disagree with that, relative
9 to tattoos. But I know of no way that the sport,
10 the league, or any governmental entity would
11 allow or tolerate any type of activity,
12 insinuation, or discriminatory practices against
13 anyone.
14 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you. I'm
15 glad to hear the Senator feels that way. I do
16 too.
17 Unfortunately, there are fighters
18 with the tattoos of Nazis, swastikas, the number
19 88, used by neo-Nazis as shorthand for "Heil
20 Hitler," and they are competing in the other
21 states that have allowed mixed martial arts.
22 So I'm hoping that the Senator would
23 agree with me that if I were to perhaps lose this
24 debate today and it became the law of New York
25 State, we wouldn't allow this type of messaging
748
1 through advertising, clothing, outfits worn
2 during mixed martial arts. And I guess it would
3 be a little hard to tell them to remove their
4 tattoos. Perhaps we could make them cover their
5 tattoos when they were fighting in New York
6 State.
7 If through you, Mr. President, the
8 sponsor would continue to yield.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
10 Griffo.
11 SENATOR GRIFFO: I will.
12 And I will say this to Senator
13 Krueger, that that's a very salient point. I
14 think that's why I believe and trust that the
15 State Athletic Commission, given that
16 responsibility and authority, would ensure that
17 what we both agree to, and I think all the
18 members would agree to, would be adhered to.
19 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
20 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
21 yield.
22 SENATOR GRIFFO: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR KRUEGER: So as I read
749
1 about the standards in other states for the sport
2 of mixed martial arts -- and you say we should
3 call it mixed martial arts, but I think we will
4 both agree there are a number of different
5 entities that oversee this activity, and UFC is
6 the largest promoter, and then there are several
7 others.
8 The drug standards for testing that
9 they are using in several states are only about
10 half of the standards that we use for
11 professional sports here in New York. Does your
12 bill allow them to continue to follow their own
13 standards of drug testing and what is acceptable
14 levels of steroids and I guess the proportion of
15 drug found in the bloodstream? Because
16 apparently in several states it's double the
17 level that we would allow here in New York. So
18 will they be following the standards we set for
19 drug testing?
20 SENATOR GRIFFO: It is my
21 understanding that, again, in accordance with the
22 essence of the bill, which essentially authorizes
23 and empowers the State Athletic Commission to set
24 regulations and standards that they believe
25 necessary, I would say that in this particular
750
1 instance we would be able to do what the State
2 Athletic Commission deems appropriate,
3 responsible, and reasonable.
4 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
5 Through you, Mr. President, if the
6 sponsor would continue to yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
8 Griffo.
9 SENATOR GRIFFO: Yes.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
13 Senator, in your development of this
14 bill that's been out there for several years, as
15 you point out, and has even passed in this house,
16 have you done any research into the correlation
17 of children's exposure to violence, their
18 behavior as young adults and as adults, and the
19 correlation to watching both violent sports and
20 violent video games?
21 SENATOR GRIFFO: Mr. President,
22 through you. Senator Krueger, I have not had the
23 opportunity to do any extensive research in that
24 regard.
25 But I believe that same research was
751
1 important before we were able to act on the
2 New York SAFE Act, because many of the issues of
3 concern there were not only the issue of guns but
4 also mental health and society and video games
5 and violence. So I do not have anything
6 specific, but I would be very interested in
7 having the opportunity to access any of that
8 information if you have that and provide it to
9 me.
10 I also want to add on something that
11 you had asked earlier about any other sport. It
12 is my understanding that Olympic judo does allow
13 certain type of chokeholds, as you describe them,
14 too.
15 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
16 Mr. President, on the bill.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
18 Krueger on the bill.
19 SENATOR KRUEGER: It's no surprise
20 to this house that I continue to oppose this
21 bill. What I think is a surprise is how we are
22 learning more because this has in fact been
23 spreading throughout the country. And we are
24 seeing that it's being particularly marketed to
25 children. And we are seeing more and more
752
1 research about the long-term impact of violent
2 sports even when they don't call themselves
3 violent.
4 We've all -- well, I don't know if
5 we all support it, but most of us supported a
6 bill to address proper headgear to try to
7 decrease the rate of concussions of football
8 players. There have been proposals for various
9 safety equipment in other sporting activities
10 from skiing to biking. There's more and more
11 medical research coming out about the long-term
12 dangers of certain contact sports.
13 And there's more and more research
14 coming out about the impact of exposure to
15 extreme violence on the development of
16 children -- not just the psychological
17 development, but actually the way their brains
18 development. And in fact the U.S. Department Of
19 Justice Juvenile Justice Division has done a
20 study on children's exposure to violence. The
21 American Academy of Child and Adolescent
22 Psychiatrists have done several, the American
23 Psychological Association. The Europeans are
24 actually farther ahead of us as to their research
25 on the influence of exposure to violence on the
753
1 development of children, how they behave towards
2 either other and their behavior patterns as they
3 become adults.
4 I know children can watch these
5 sports on TV, it doesn't have to take place live
6 in our state. But I also know that as this sport
7 is being advertised and marketed in the rest of
8 this country and the world, its clear message is
9 a message of violence. No rules apply. Fight to
10 the death. You get some blood on you, even
11 better.
12 And it's different than other
13 martial arts. And it's different than boxing and
14 wrestling. In fact, almost all other martial
15 arts have as the standard that it's not
16 violence. You're not supposed to be hurting the
17 other person, you're just supposed to be a more
18 accomplished athlete in that martial art.
19 And boxing has very explicit
20 standards, particularly for young people, of what
21 kind of equipment has to be to be worn on their
22 heads and their hands. And wrestling, apparently
23 there's a debate whether it's a sport or not,
24 because the Olympics is throwing it out. But
25 apparently it was very popular at the Times Union
754
1 Center last night and tonight, with a lot of
2 children going. Which disturbed me also,
3 frankly.
4 But what most disturbs me is we're
5 not looking carefully enough at the impact of all
6 this violence, both physical violence and the
7 impact on psychological development and the
8 development of young brains. And I don't think
9 New York State wants to expand on that. I don't
10 think we want to say, Oh, we're so fine with this
11 that we're going to legalize it here.
12 I can't make it illegal other
13 places. But I can try to stop it from becoming
14 legal here. There are many organizations and
15 religious leaders who have sent us memos urging
16 us to vote no. At least so far, our colleagues
17 in the Assembly have not seen fit to pass this.
18 Maybe they will. If it becomes law, I think it
19 is crucial to have much stronger regulations than
20 they have in other states.
21 But frankly, for people who are
22 parents, people who care about children, people
23 who worry about the level of violence in our
24 playgrounds and on our streets and the
25 correlation between the lessons we teach young
755
1 people and what happens in our adult society, I
2 don't think we want this sport here.
3 I'll be voting no, Mr. President.
4 Thank you.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
6 you, Senator Krueger.
7 Senator Parker.
8 SENATOR PARKER: Thank you,
9 Mr. President. On the bill.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
11 Parker on the bill.
12 SENATOR PARKER: I rise in support
13 of this bill. Let me thank Senator Griffo for
14 all his hard work and his leadership in bringing
15 this forward. As we have debated in the past,
16 this was actually once my bill. And so, you
17 know, I continue to support it. I think it's a
18 good thing for the state.
19 I think there's actually two kind of
20 main arguments for why we ought to do this. And
21 the first I think is the idea of competition. As
22 we start talking about violence and we talk about
23 the tale of two cities that we're dealing with in
24 terms of violence in our communities, we have
25 Newtown and Aurora, but we also have Brooklyn and
756
1 Harlem and the Bronx and Washington Heights.
2 And so we know what happens in those
3 communities. And the context for the violence
4 that we're seeing in those communities is really
5 about young people who are unengaged. They're
6 not engaged in school because we refuse to have
7 music, art, athletics and dance as regular parts
8 of the curriculum. We don't have enough
9 after-school programs. We've gotten rid of
10 junior varsity programs and many of the varsity
11 programs at our schools.
12 Many of our schools right now don't
13 even have gyms in them. And then we wonder why
14 we have obesity, and we want to blame soda.
15 We've had Coke for 60 years and we've gotten rid
16 of gym for 10 years and we wonder why for over 10
17 years we now have obesity. It's easy to kind of
18 figure out if we look at the right things.
19 This gives us an opportunity to add
20 another dimension to the kinds of activities that
21 young people are engaged in. And the reality is
22 that this is something that is frankly safer than
23 most of the sports that we think of as
24 traditional sports. This sport is far safer than
25 hockey, than baseball, than boxing. It is even
757
1 safer than soccer -- and being a soccer mom is,
2 you know, is an icon in our community now.
3 In fact, there were 79
4 soccer-related deaths between 1990 and 2003. And
5 we had 300 deaths in football within that same
6 period. And you compare this to two deaths
7 worldwide in MMA, and only one of them actually
8 being in a sanctioned fight.
9 I've heard lots today about the kind
10 of activities that happen inside of the octagon.
11 And a lot of times, you know, we use big words
12 like laceration. A laceration is a cut. Anybody
13 here ever got cut here before? A cut is a cut.
14 I mean, you know, and people get cut it. It
15 happens. And in other sports, people get cut.
16 In baseball and football and wrestling, people
17 get cut in those sports too. And they get cut
18 sometimes on their face and other parts of their
19 body. Let's not be confused by the word
20 "laceration" and think that it's something more
21 serious than people getting cut.
22 What you want to pay attention to
23 are long-term injuries, things like broken
24 bones. You want to pay attention to deaths,
25 obviously. And you want to pay attention to
758
1 concussions. There are far fewer concussions in
2 MMA than you find in sports like boxing,
3 exponentially more concussions in things like
4 football.
5 And so when we start talking about,
6 you know, submissions -- and the reason why there
7 are far less concussions is that in fact that
8 most bouts are actually decided by submissions.
9 Many of those submissions are not necessarily
10 chokeholds, some of which are in fact submissions
11 because of manipulating of joints -- arms, legs,
12 those kind of things.
13 And in fact there is regulations
14 around what you can do and how you can apply
15 those techniques. And remember that the men and
16 women who engage in this sport are actually
17 professionals, they actually do this for a
18 living. And there is in fact a referee involved
19 who is paying attention and watching and focusing
20 on the action and knows when to stop it. And so
21 injuries have happened much less in these sports
22 than others because this sport has grown up
23 paying attention to those kind of injuries, and
24 so we've seen a lot less.
25 So from a safety perspective of just
759
1 the athletes that are engaged in MMA, these
2 athletes are frankly in better condition than in
3 most sports, and they're also monitored a lot
4 better.
5 But if we're concerned, as Senator
6 Krueger has indicated about, you know, drug
7 testing, about the kind of padding, the kind of
8 messages we're sending, this bill allows our
9 Athletic Commission to set rules on those
10 things. And as legislators we obviously have an
11 ability to regulate it.
12 Now, 47 states already allow MMA.
13 Right? So we're not stopping the activity by
14 voting it down today. Right? It already
15 exists. It's on television. There's probably a
16 bout on somewhere right now. Actually what we
17 like to say in my office is that "Somewhere in
18 the world, MMA is happening." Right?
19 So this sport is happening all over
20 the place except in New York State. And so that
21 leads me to my second point, Mr. President, which
22 is that we are denying ourselves a significant
23 amount of revenue because of this. I mean,
24 there's tons of revenue to be generated because
25 of this sport.
760
1 According to an economic impact
2 study commissioned by the Ultimate Fighting
3 Championship in 2008, MMA's leading organization,
4 an event in upstate New York would generate an
5 estimated $11.5 million in economic activity and
6 $400,000 in tax revenue in New York City. It's
7 estimated to generate $5.3 million of economic
8 activity just in Buffalo. That's per event.
9 Now, I already talked to Tim
10 Kennedy, and I think he already has some of that
11 money spent.
12 (Laughter.)
13 SENATOR PARKER: So there is lots
14 of opportunities here -- right? And this is with
15 the market just being raw. This is just to begin
16 with.
17 There's lots of opportunity here to
18 bringing a sport that already exists in
19 47 states, that's already been televised. And we
20 simply would be legalizing it and regulating it
21 in a way that's set to the standards and the
22 protocols that we think are appropriate here in
23 the State of New York.
24 And so I ask my colleagues to make a
25 common-sense vote here to vote to make mixed
761
1 martial arts legal in the State of New York.
2 Let's in fact then start beginning quickly some
3 conversations about what safety looks like, about
4 codes of conduct, about padding and all the other
5 things that we are concerned about. And, you
6 know, do the right thing by the municipalities
7 across the state that will benefit from having
8 this. Let's talk about what's going to benefit
9 our communities, particularly those urban
10 communities that are looking for more activities
11 for our young people to be engaged in, to
12 legalize something like to this to give our young
13 people something else to be engaged in.
14 Lastly, I hear a lot of people
15 talking about, you know, violence in our
16 society. And I certainly, you know, stand with
17 you in terms of opposing that. But then, you
18 know, let's in fact start, you know, having a
19 campaign. And I haven't seen this campaign yet
20 in the four or five years we've been talking
21 about this, anyone start the campaign to start
22 talking about the violent stuff we see on
23 television, in movies. I haven't seen a letter,
24 I haven't seen a resolution, I haven't seen a
25 commission, I haven't seen a public forum, I
762
1 haven't even had a conversation in the lounge
2 with anybody who says that they're opposing, you
3 know, a movie that came out that had a lot of
4 violence or a television show that had a lot of
5 violence or, I don't know, the evening news that
6 shows wars and body parts and all kinds of
7 things.
8 Violence is part of what we
9 experience in our societies, and maybe too much.
10 And I certainly could agree with that. But if
11 that's the case, then let's look at it in its
12 totality and let's address it in its totality.
13 Let's not have situational ethics in which we
14 pick and choose this one little narrow area and
15 all of a sudden become ethical because, you know,
16 we don't like -- it's not our taste.
17 I'm not saying that a vote on this
18 bill means that you have to run out and go to an
19 MMA match. Right? But I certainly have not seen
20 anyone with the same kind of fervor talking about
21 banning hockey or banning soccer because people
22 have gotten hurt or banning boxing or wrestling
23 or any other sports where athletes are involved
24 in combat.
25 And so I hope that we in fact get to
763
1 that conversation and start addressing video
2 games and television shows and movies. But in
3 the meantime, let's allow MMA to be here, let's
4 regulate it, and let's work together to make it a
5 safe and profitable sport for the State of
6 New York.
7 Thank you, Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
9 you, Senator Parker.
10 Senator Hoylman.
11 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Mr. President, I
12 rise to let my colleagues know of my
13 objections --
14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
15 Hoylman on the bill.
16 SENATOR HOYLMAN: On the bill, yes,
17 sir.
18 I wanted to rise to let my
19 colleagues know my objections to the bill
20 legalizing the sport which we have
21 euphemistically called mixed martial arts, a
22 sport which I think many of us know participants
23 punch, kick, knee, elbow, wrestle and choke their
24 opponents to submission. And that was referred,
25 apparently without any irony, to the Senate
764
1 Cultural Affairs Committee.
2 Now, mixed martial arts was dubbed
3 by Senator John McCain as "the human equivalent
4 of cockfighting." Now, based on some of the
5 economic benefits you hear around this chamber
6 today, you might call it the human equivalent of
7 hydrofracking.
8 (Laughter.)
9 SENATOR HOYLMAN: And there are a
10 multitude of arguments that we've heard today and
11 I'll hopefully hear from some of our other
12 colleagues on why we as a legislative body should
13 not sanction or glorify its violence, especially
14 given the impact that it will have on children.
15 And as a father of a two-year-old, I weigh these
16 arguments very heavily.
17 But instead of focusing on the
18 health and the well-being of our society, I
19 wanted to take a few minutes to discuss the
20 impact of mixed martial arts on the health and
21 well-being of the participants, the fighters.
22 Mixed martial arts. Along with
23 boxing, stands apart from every other sanctioned
24 sport because its aim is to cause physical harm
25 and injury to an opponent until they are unable
765
1 to continue. His goal is to knock his opponent
2 unconscious, which has been shown in numerous
3 medical studies to result in acute brain damage.
4 Now, most of our internal organs are
5 protected by bone or fat, skin, well-developed
6 muscle. But the soft tissue of the brain is
7 protected only by the thin-covered skull and
8 three very thin membranes. In addition to these
9 membranes, the brain is suspended in
10 cerebrospinal fluid. Even with this protection,
11 the brain can become bruised when the head is
12 jarred or shaken.
13 Now, when a fighter sustains a
14 direct blow to the head, the head rotates
15 sharply, then returns to its normal position at a
16 much slower speed. In addition, the different
17 densities of the various parts of the brain also
18 move at different rates, and the overall result,
19 according to physicians, is a swirling effect
20 inside the brain.
21 The resulting tissue trauma includes
22 damage from the brain hitting the inner surface
23 of the skull. This can be at the site of impact,
24 where the brain moves within the skull and
25 impacts the opposite side to the blow,
766
1 ricocheting. Tears to the nerve networks between
2 the brain hemispheres, tension between the brain
3 tissue and blood vessels may cause lesions and
4 bleeding. Pressure waves could be created,
5 causing differences in blood pressure to various
6 parts of parts of the brain and blood clots.
7 Now, the immediate effects of blows
8 to the head include grogginess, weakness,
9 paralysis, weakening of limbs, inability to
10 focus, and possible loss of consciousness.
11 But I'm concerned about the
12 long-term effects of mixed martial arts on the
13 brains of fighters. They are cumulative and may
14 not show immediately after a match. So any
15 physician who is on-call to monitor an MMA match
16 will not have the opportunity to evaluate
17 fighters in the long term. Most signs of damage
18 are likely to appear toward the end of a
19 fighter's career or even after retirement. As
20 one observer has put it, the damage accumulates
21 like interest on a savings account.
22 According to medical experts,
23 including the British Medical Association,
24 fighters are more likely to suffer conditions
25 such as dementia, Alzheimer's -- which I think
767
1 many of us know Muhammad Ali suffers from -- and
2 Parkinson's.
3 Even in contact sports where head
4 injuries are less likely to occur than mixed
5 martial arts, we have seen the health impact of
6 repeated chronic brain injuries. A class action
7 lawsuit was filed just last year by more than
8 4,000 NFL players and their wives accusing the
9 NFL of hiding information that linked
10 football-related head trauma to permanent brain
11 injury. Among the illnesses cited were dementia
12 and Alzheimer's disease. The suit accuses the
13 NFL of mythologizing and glorifying violence
14 through the media. Sound familiar? The
15 plaintiffs hope to hold the NFL responsible for
16 the care of players suffering from those health
17 problems.
18 Is this the future that we're
19 sanctioning today for mixed martial arts
20 fighters? Well, it might be, except for one
21 difference. There are no labor protections for
22 fighters in mixed martial arts as there are
23 currently for players in the NFL.
24 Now, there is currently a bill in
25 California that would establish protections for
768
1 MMA fighters like those enjoyed by professional
2 boxers through the federal Muhammad Ali Boxing
3 Reform Act of 2000, which protects boxers from
4 unscrupulous promoters and sanctioning bodies
5 from things like contracts that automatically
6 renew or extend without good faith negotiations
7 and the appropriation of fighters' personal
8 images and likeness in perpetuity.
9 But even with those protections,
10 Mr. President, none of which are included in the
11 bill before us today, fighters still will not be
12 able to bargain for things like health insurance
13 and pensions. These won't happen until they are
14 organized into an association much like the NFL.
15 And I wish to point out,
16 Mr. President, that the insurance provisions in
17 this bill for fighters are scant and obligate
18 promoters to provide only $50,000 of medical
19 care, apparently only while the fighter is still
20 working for the UFC. Now, if a fighter dies
21 while working, his family gets $100,000 from the
22 UFC. Now, you tell me, Mr. President, is that
23 fair?
24 These small sums, however, do not
25 cover any long-term care that might be envisioned
769
1 from a chronic brain injury like Parkinson's,
2 Alzheimer's or dementia that might manifest
3 decades after a fighter is no longer active.
4 Let me read to you what UFC
5 bantamweight champion Nick Denis wrote on his
6 blog in announcing his retirement at age 29 just
7 a few months ago. Now, Nick Denis is a former
8 Ph.D. student in biochemistry, I would suspect
9 the only doctoral candidate participating in
10 UFC. But he began his research into brain
11 injuries following an especially vicious knockout
12 loss in 2009.
13 He wrote: "After my first loss, a
14 devastating knockout where another fighter
15 dribbled my head on the canvas like a basketball,
16 I did lots of research on concussions. As a
17 graduate student, I had access to all
18 peer-reviewed scientific journals." "No
19 surprise," he writes, "to find out that
20 concussions are bad." "However," he writes, "I
21 found something that never occurred to me.
22 Sub-concussive trauma. Basically, a blow to the
23 head that doesn't lead to a concussion. When it
24 happens, you feel fine and continue on. Even
25 athletes who don't suffer concussions are still
770
1 doing damage from sub-concussive trauma."
2 "I am a human being and I was born
3 with only one brain, and I want to take care of
4 it so that I will recognize the ones I love when
5 I get older."
6 Now, Mr. President, if we are to
7 believe the supporters, this is a bill that is an
8 economic silver bullet. It will generate
9 supposedly tens of millions of dollars in
10 economic benefits for both New York State and
11 New York City. But the economic costs of acute
12 brain injuries are not yet known and won't be for
13 years or even decades. If the NFL class action
14 lawsuit is any indication, it could cost hundreds
15 of millions of dollars.
16 But even if mixed martial arts
17 fighters have the support they will certainly
18 need for their injuries, support which is
19 decidedly not in the bill before us today, I
20 think you'll agree that no amount of money can
21 compensate for permanent brain damage and
22 possibly premature death.
23 Mr. President, I urge my colleagues
24 to vote no on the bill. Thank you.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
771
1 you, Senator Hoylman.
2 Senator Rivera.
3 SENATOR RIVERA: Thank you,
4 Mr. President.
5 It is not every day that I so
6 strongly disagree with some of my colleagues,
7 certainly Senator Hoylman and Senator Krueger.
8 But first of all, I'll say, Senator Hoylman, that
9 I do not believe that mixed martial arts is a
10 euphemism. It is precisely what it is. You have
11 different arts that are being practiced, whether
12 it's judo, jujitsu, taekwondo, karate. All of
13 these things which I have mentioned are things
14 that require a high level of skill to do well.
15 So I do not believe that calling it
16 mixed martial arts is a euphemism. I believe
17 that calling it mixed martial arts is calling it
18 precisely what it is.
19 Now, as someone who has practiced
20 martial arts -- not as much as Sensei Griffo,
21 that's what I'm going to call him -- I can say
22 that the best martial artists, and this comes
23 from experience, the best martial artists are the
24 ones that are the most disciplined.
25 As opposed to what both
772
1 Senator Krueger and Senator Hoylman have
2 mentioned on the floor, this is not an activity
3 which actually means two people just going at
4 each other like wild dogs. We are talking about
5 two skilled athletes measuring each other's
6 ability to be able to outwit the other one
7 physically.
8 And I can certainly understand why
9 that would be something that you might not want
10 to watch. If you don't like boxing, then I
11 certainly understand why you would not like this
12 either.
13 However, again, when it is two very
14 skilled individuals, when they are trained, if
15 they are highly disciplined -- and the best
16 martial artists and the best mixed martial
17 artists are very disciplined, are very well
18 trained -- this is not something that is a
19 spectacle of violence. Instead, it is a
20 spectacle of skill.
21 I will also say that regarding many
22 of the points that have been brought forward by
23 some of the opponents of this bill and opponents
24 of the practice in itself, there are many, many
25 things that were mentioned as far as regulations
773
1 that we would have to -- that we should think
2 about putting forth as it relates to the sport,
3 as it relates to safety, as it relates to working
4 conditions. And I could not agree more. It is
5 precisely why we want to have the Athletic
6 Commission sanction this sport and then be able
7 to regulate it, much like many other -- or every
8 other athletic activity in the State of New York
9 is regulated by the Athletic Commission.
10 So with all of that said -- and I
11 would say that the issue of revenue is obviously
12 one of the things that we should consider, but it
13 would be secondary to me. As somebody who is a
14 fan of this as an activity that I watch -- and
15 again, not as a violent spectacle because I am
16 looking forward to someone getting beat up. I
17 would say that a lot of folks who watch hockey
18 would probably have that as their ultimate goal.
19 But in this particular instance, when I'm
20 thinking of mixed martial arts, I think of two
21 very highly skilled athletes competing with each
22 other.
23 And what we are doing, as has been
24 mentioned by Senator Parker, by banning it in
25 this state is limiting the amount of revenue that
774
1 we could get in this state, limiting the ability
2 of folks to actually go to places right here in
3 New York, whether it's in Madison Square Garden
4 or Buffalo or any other place in this state. So
5 it would be a revenue-generator.
6 But again, it is not -- I repeat one
7 last time, I do not believe that it is just a
8 violent activity in which two people go at each
9 other until they're barely alive. As opposed to
10 that, you have two very highly skilled and
11 disciplined individuals. When you have regulated
12 instances, regulated bouts, it is not a street
13 fight. It is instead two very skilled, highly
14 skilled athletes competing against each other.
15 And I believe that we in the State
16 of New York have missed out for way too long. I
17 hope that my colleagues in the Assembly will pass
18 this bill and that the Governor will sign it, and
19 I encourage my colleagues here in the Senate to
20 vote for this bill.
21 I vote in the affirmative,
22 Mr. President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank
24 you, Senator Rivera.
25 Seeing no other Senators who wish to
775
1 be heard, the debate is closed. I ask the
2 Secretary to ring the bells. All Senators are
3 asked to proceed directly to the chamber, as we
4 will be moving forward now with the roll call.
5 The Secretary will read the last
6 section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
8 act shall take effect on the 90th day.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: We have
13 a number of Senators who wish to explain their
14 vote. I remind Senators that we have a
15 two-minute time limit for vote explanation, with
16 the exception of Senator Griffo. As the sponsor
17 of the bill, his time limit is five minutes.
18 We'll begin with Senator Grisanti to
19 explain his vote.
20 SENATOR GRISANTI: Thank you,
21 Mr. President.
22 You know, during that very lively
23 debate I didn't know that we were actually having
24 a bill here mandating somebody to actually be
25 involved in the sport or mandating somebody to
776
1 actually watch it on TV or to pay for a
2 pay-for-view event. The only thing that we're
3 doing here is having the association of boxing
4 commissions, the athletic commissioners, take
5 over MMA and be able to regulate it.
6 This is a no-brainer. It's legal in
7 47 states. Over a decade ago there was problems
8 with MMA and UFC. Those have changed, if anybody
9 has done their homework and looked at it. An
10 exhibition in Toronto just this last spring sold
11 $11 million in ticket sales. In a short period
12 of time, 50,000 tickets sold. Independent study
13 done, in Buffalo it would have a $5 million
14 effect. It was a $35 million event from Friday's
15 weigh-in until Sunday. Friday's weigh-in till
16 Sunday, in Toronto, a $35 million draw.
17 So MMA is becoming part of the
18 mainstream of sports. And if violence and the
19 risk of serious injury is a concern, maybe we
20 should ban boxing, football, ice hockey, downhill
21 skiing, rodeo and maybe even tight-roping across
22 Niagara Falls.
23 Because it's about time we passed
24 this. I urge, I urge the members of the Assembly
25 to tell Speaker Silver, Bring it to the floor.
777
1 You will have the votes. Bring it to the floor
2 and see what happens. Do not hold up this
3 measure. It's too important for this economy.
4 I vote aye, Mr. President. Thank
5 you.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
7 Grisanti to be recorded in the affirmative.
8 We ask that the noise level be kept
9 down; it's beginning to be difficult to hear.
10 Senator Zeldin to explain his vote.
11 SENATOR ZELDIN: Mr. President, I
12 rise to explain my vote.
13 First off, I want to thank
14 Sensei Griffo for bringing this bill to the
15 floor.
16 And I want to just try to clear one
17 thing up. If there's anyone who's thinking about
18 voting against this bill, please understand, this
19 is about professional mixed martial arts in
20 New York.
21 Right now we have mixed martial arts
22 all throughout this state, legally. These bouts
23 that take place right now, the amateur bouts that
24 take place all across New York, they have no
25 pre-fight medical, no MRI, no CAT scan, no blood
778
1 tests, no insurance, no medical oversight, no
2 professional officials. Without regulation by
3 the New York State Athletic Commission, this
4 sport is actually more dangerous.
5 And I think that a lot of people
6 don't understand that this sport actually exists
7 right now. We just want to regulate it with the
8 New York State Athletic Commission. So a very
9 important point.
10 And with regards to the revenue
11 piece, I know Senator Parker and Senator Grisanti
12 both were speaking about the economic impact. I
13 mean, I read one study that the hotel occupancy
14 in Buffalo for one fight would be up over
15 10 percent. Great economic impact, whether it's
16 a fight in New York City or up in Buffalo.
17 But that's not my primary reason for
18 supporting it. It's because the time is right.
19 I too encourage Speaker Silver to bring this bill
20 to the floor for a vote. It's time for
21 professional mixed martial arts in New York
22 State. It's time for the New York Athletic
23 Commission to promulgate rules to allow it.
24 I vote aye.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
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1 Zeldin to be recorded in the affirmative.
2 Senator Boyle to explain his vote.
3 SENATOR BOYLE: Mr. President, to
4 explain my vote.
5 It's kind of ironic that my first
6 statement as a member of the State Senate is
7 going to be in favor of a mixed martial arts
8 bill, because as a member of the Assembly
9 15 years ago I had the first bill banning extreme
10 fighting in the State of New York. It was taken
11 by a majority member in the Assembly and
12 then-Governor Pataki signed it, and he invited me
13 to the signing. It was the only bill I've ever
14 been invited to the signing of. I have a picture
15 sitting next to him at the desk.
16 But that was then, and this is now.
17 And this is a completely different sport. Much
18 more regulation, it's much safer, it's around the
19 country, it's a big business and it's going to be
20 big business for New York.
21 I want to say that if I can feel
22 comfortable supporting this bill, then anybody
23 can feel comfortable supporting this bill.
24 And I also, in closing, would like
25 to thank my good friend and former Assemblyman
780
1 Dean Murray for his leadership in bringing this
2 bill forward and making it ultimately legal in
3 New York State.
4 I vote in the affirmative.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
6 Boyle to be recorded in the affirmative.
7 Senator DeFrancisco to explain his
8 vote.
9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, much of
10 what I was going to say has already been said.
11 I'll just add a couple of things.
12 And that is as far as the doctoral
13 candidate that had his head dribbled on the
14 ground, he must have been smart enough to realize
15 he didn't have to be there if he chose not to.
16 And when he decided he didn't want to have his
17 head dribbled any longer, he got out of the
18 sport. And everybody has that option. And if
19 you choose to do it and you're capable of doing
20 it, it's important that you have that
21 opportunity.
22 And secondly, it's being done. I
23 mean, it's not like you're going to ban some
24 offensive conduct that's happening, that would
25 happen but for our bill. It's being done. It's
781
1 happening. There's an audience. There's a group
2 of young people like there were boxers that got
3 out of the difficult situations because they have
4 a skill and all they want to do is be able to
5 perform that skill and make some money at it.
6 So for those reasons, I vote yes.
7 And secondly, I just ask, because
8 done this before, would the Assembly put it on
9 the floor? There's a bipartisan disagreement on
10 the merits of the bill. That's fine. But put it
11 on the floor. Let the Assembly make the same
12 decision. And don't have some ancillary issue
13 hold this up. It should be debated on its
14 merits.
15 I vote aye.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
17 DeFrancisco to be recorded in the affirmative.
18 Senator LaValle to explain his vote.
19 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you,
20 Mr. President.
21 Today I'm well aware our society is
22 driven by how much money does some one item
23 generate in our budget and also how much
24 excitement does it produce.
25 Look at gambling. We started with
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1 the lottery, we went to Quick Draw, then racinos,
2 casinos. Here today we're starting with MMA.
3 And where are we going to go when this doesn't
4 produce enough excitement? Because some of the
5 other -- boxing doesn't produce or wrestling
6 doesn't produce enough excitement, so now we're
7 into mixed martial arts.
8 Will a bill, future legislatures say
9 we're going to bring back the Roman Coliseum and
10 have gladiators? Will that satisfy the thirst?
11 I vote no.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
13 LaValle to be recorded in the negative.
14 Senator Little to explain her vote.
15 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you.
16 Certainly much has been said about
17 reasons to have this in New York State. And I
18 would just like to say, as chair of the
19 Tourism Committee, we're always looking for new
20 ways to attract people to New York State and new
21 events to have here.
22 This is something that, as Senator
23 Zeldin said, is already taking place at an
24 amateur level. There are many mixed martial arts
25 studios in my district and throughout the state.
783
1 People do it for the exercise, for the fitness.
2 And I will tell you I was in
3 California at one time, walking down the street.
4 We had to go out into the road to get by a
5 restaurant that had a great big TV and people
6 were just gathered around there watching the
7 mixed martial arts. On TV, not even attending.
8 So I do think that this is an
9 important measure to bring to the professional
10 level under regulation, with medical care and all
11 of the things that we've talked about.
12 So I vote aye. Thank you.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
14 Little to be recorded in the affirmative.
15 Senator Griffo to explain his vote.
16 SENATOR GRIFFO: Thank you,
17 Mr. President.
18 Hailing from Rome, I sometimes think
19 of all of us in the Senate as gladiators in
20 suits.
21 First of all, let me wish a happy
22 birthday to Kevin Parker. Happy birthday,
23 Mr. Parker.
24 (Applause.)
25 SENATOR GRIFFO: I appreciate all
784
1 the support here, and I do have a lot of respect
2 for the differences of opinions and philosophy
3 that we have expressed here this afternoon. I
4 appreciate a vigorous debate.
5 And I think that I respect that
6 opinion, but I also respect the opportunity to
7 have people make their own decisions. And I
8 think that's what we're doing here today.
9 So just for the facts, again, what
10 we are trying to do is allow the State Athletic
11 Commission to have the opportunity to really
12 regulate and monitor this activity in this
13 state. And we have a lot of confidence in a
14 professional organization that has served this
15 state well over the years.
16 We will generate economic revenue,
17 not only to the state but also to local
18 communities. And it's by their own decisions,
19 not that we are imposing some form of a tax on
20 them that they have no choice in. They can
21 participate because they decide they want to
22 participate or spectate.
23 And we will allow home-state
24 athletes, some of whom are with us here in the
25 galleries today, to participate in their home
785
1 state. Right now they are denied that privilege
2 and opportunity to compete in their home state.
3 There are stringent rules and
4 regulations associated with this sport. John
5 McCain has changed his view, for those people who
6 are studying him. There are statistics that
7 disprove some of what Senator Krueger has said.
8 There's a Johns Hopkins study that disproves some
9 of the hyperbole that was used here today in this
10 debate.
11 And by the way, if I were looking to
12 Europe as an example, I would not go to Pamplona
13 when they're running the bulls. Because I think
14 the last thing I want to do is look to Europe to
15 tell us how to be a more cultured society and
16 less violent, when you consider what takes place
17 in Spain each and every year.
18 So I think today, when you look at
19 this -- and recently we've even seen a movie come
20 out called "Here Comes the Boom." So many
21 families actually went to watch the movie.
22 Parents had the opportunity to make that decision
23 whether they wanted to go and take their
24 children.
25 So let's have the opportunity to
786
1 debate this and to vote on this. I appreciate
2 the fact that we're taking that vote here in the
3 Senate today. I hope the Assembly will do
4 likewise. I vote aye.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
6 Griffo to be recorded in the affirmative.
7 All Senators are asked to be in
8 their seats for the announcement of the vote.
9 All Senators should proceed to the chamber so we
10 may record the vote. We are on the roll call.
11 Announce the results.
12 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
13 Calendar Number 144, those recorded in the
14 negative are Senators Bonacic, Breslin, Felder,
15 Fuschillo, Gipson, Hoylman, Krueger, Lanza,
16 LaValle, Marcellino, Perkins, Sanders,
17 Stewart-Cousins, Tkaczyk and Young.
18 Ayes, 47. Nays, 15.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The bill
20 is passed.
21 Senator Libous, that completes the
22 controversial reading of the calendar.
23 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,
24 Mr. President.
25 Is there any further business at the
787
1 desk?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
3 Libous, the desk is clear.
4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Could we have
5 order in the chamber? The Senate has not
6 adjourned.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:
8 {Gaveling.} Senate has not adjourned.
9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Because you never
10 know, I may have a very important announcement.
11 As a matter of fact, Mr. President, I do.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Senator
13 Libous, please share.
14 SENATOR LIBOUS: There being no
15 further business, I move that the Senate adjourn
16 until Thursday, March 7th, at 11:00 a.m.
17 (Laughter.)
18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: On
19 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
20 Thursday, March 7th, at 11:00 a.m.
21 (Whereupon, at 5:35 p.m., the Senate
22 adjourned.)
23
24
25