Regular Session - March 4, 2019
1242
1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
2
3
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
5
6
7
8
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 March 4, 2019
11 3:47 p.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
15
16
17
18 SENATOR BRIAN A. BENJAMIN, Acting President
19 ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary
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21
22
23
24
25
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
3 Senate will come to order.
4 I ask everyone present to please
5 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of Allegiance.
6 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited
7 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
9 Reverend Craig Robinson, pastor of the Israel
10 African Methodist Episcopal Church in Albany,
11 will deliver today's invocation.
12 Reverend Robinson.
13 REVEREND ROBINSON: Let us pray.
14 Almighty God, we give You thanks and
15 praise for this day and for the opportunity to
16 gather in this place for the noble work of
17 governance.
18 You have given the men and women of
19 this chamber the responsibility to lead and serve
20 the people of New York, and You have given these
21 leaders a vision for a better society.
22 We pray, Gracious Lord, for wisdom.
23 The days in which we live require sober minds
24 that seek to bring equitable solutions to the
25 hardships that people face.
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1 We pray for cooperation. In a state
2 with such wonderful diversity -- differing
3 opinions, intentions and agendas which can thwart
4 progress and hinder the building of productive
5 relationships -- unite this chamber under the
6 principles of beloved community.
7 We pray for justice, remembering the
8 most vulnerable in our society. We ask that
9 policies be created that make our community safe
10 and equitable. Do not allow the interests of the
11 few to supercede the needs of the many.
12 We acknowledge our shortcomings, the
13 shortcomings of our human family. We know that
14 we will not get everything right all the time.
15 We concede to the fact that disagreement will
16 come. Yet we look to You, O God most holy, to
17 help us rise above the frailty of our humanness
18 so that we might give the best of our service on
19 behalf of the people.
20 Bless, O Lord, this chamber. Bless
21 the work that will happen in this place on behalf
22 of the people of the State of New York. Bless
23 each Senator and their staff.
24 Give each Senator courage to
25 advocate for what is right. Give each Senator an
1245
1 extra measure of Your compassionate love. Give
2 each Senator the endurance to keep working until
3 the tasks are completed. Grant them vision for
4 our state, and all success in accomplishing the
5 work they have set out to do.
6 Hear our prayer. Heal our land.
7 Give us hope for the living of these days.
8 Amen.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
10 reading of the Journal.
11 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, Sunday,
12 March 3, 2019, the Senate met pursuant to
13 adjournment. The Journal of Saturday, March 2,
14 2019, was read and approved. On motion, Senate
15 adjourned.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Without
17 objection, the Journal stands approved as read.
18 Presentation of petitions.
19 Messages from the Assembly.
20 The Secretary will read.
21 THE SECRETARY: On page 10,
22 Senator Martinez moves to discharge, from the
23 Committee on Environmental Conservation,
24 Assembly Bill Number 2574 and substitute it for
25 the identical Senate Bill Number 2409,
1246
1 Third Reading Calendar 78.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
3 substitution is so ordered.
4 The Secretary will read.
5 THE SECRETARY: On page 10,
6 Senator Martinez moves to discharge, from the
7 Committee on Environmental Conservation,
8 Assembly Bill Number 2575 and substitute it for
9 the identical Senate Bill Number 2410,
10 Third Reading Calendar 79.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
12 substitution is so ordered.
13 Messages from the Governor.
14 Reports of standing committees.
15 Reports of select committees.
16 Communications and reports from
17 state officers.
18 Motions and resolutions.
19 Senator Gianaris.
20 SENATOR GIANARIS: Can you please
21 call on Senator Griffo.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
23 Griffo.
24 SENATOR GRIFFO: Mr. President, I
25 move on page 11 to offer the following amendments
1247
1 to Calendar Number 104, Senate Bill 1861, by
2 Senator Ritchie, and ask that the bill retain its
3 place on the Third Reading Calendar.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
5 amendments are received, and the bill shall
6 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
7 Senator Griffo.
8 SENATOR GRIFFO: Mr. President, I
9 now ask that the following bill by
10 Senator Flanagan, Senate Bill 3879, be discharged
11 from its respective committee and be recommitted
12 with instructions to strike the enacting clause.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: It is
14 so ordered.
15 Senator Gianaris.
16 SENATOR GIANARIS: Can we now take
17 up the reading of the calendar, please.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
19 Secretary will read.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 70,
21 Senate Print 2070, by Senator Metzger, an act to
22 amend the Mental Hygiene Law.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
24 the last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
1248
1 act shall take effect on the 90th day after it
2 shall have become a law.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
4 the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
7 Announce the results.
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
10 bill is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 71,
12 Senate Print 2403, by Senator Carlucci, an act to
13 amend the Mental Hygiene Law.
14 SENATOR GRIFFO: Lay it aside.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Lay it
16 aside.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 78,
18 Assembly Bill 2574, substituted earlier by
19 Assemblymember Englebright, an act to amend the
20 Environmental Conservation Law.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
22 the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
24 act shall take effect immediately.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
1249
1 the roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
4 Announce the results.
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
7 bill is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 79,
9 Assembly Bill 2575, substituted earlier by
10 Assemblyman Englebright, an act to amend the
11 Environmental Conservation Law.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
13 the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
17 the roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
20 Announce the results.
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
23 bill is passed.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 94,
25 by Senator Krueger, Senate Print 2450A, an act to
1250
1 amend the Penal Law and the General Business Law.
2 SENATOR GRIFFO: Lay it aside.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Lay it
4 aside.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 115, Senate Print 35, by Senator Hoylman, an act
7 to amend the General Business Law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
9 the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect on the 90th day after it
12 shall have become a law.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
14 the roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
17 Hoylman to explain his vote.
18 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Thank you,
19 Mr. President, for allowing me to explain my vote
20 on this bill, which would strengthen New York
21 State's laws on imitation weapons by requiring
22 them to be brightly colored or transparent.
23 The bill takes a much-needed step
24 toward fixing a problem that's claimed many lives
25 both in New York and across the country.
1251
1 According to the New York State Attorney
2 General's office, there have been at least
3 63 shootings in New York State since 1994 as a
4 result of someone holding a toy or imitation
5 weapon. At least eight of those were fatal.
6 Now, as part of their duties, police
7 officers respond to high-pressure situations
8 involving individuals with dangerous weapons and
9 sometimes have really seconds to distinguish
10 between a real and a fake weapon. Playing with a
11 toy gun that is indistinguishable from a real
12 firearm can obviously have devastating
13 consequences. And in some cases it has cost
14 children across this country their lives.
15 So I'm very grateful to my
16 colleagues for passing this bill, for codifying
17 action by the New York State Attorney General's
18 office, which announced back in 2015 a settlement
19 with 30 major online retailers, including
20 Walmart, Amazon, Kmart and others, which will in
21 effect make certain that these types of imitation
22 weapons are distinguishable to police officers
23 based on color and transparency.
24 So I vote aye. Thank you,
25 Mr. President.
1252
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
2 Hoylman to be recorded in the affirmative.
3 Announce the results.
4 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
5 Calendar Number 115, those Senators recorded in
6 the negative are Senators Akshar, Amedore,
7 Antonacci, Funke, Gallivan, Griffo, Jordan,
8 Omara, Ortt, Ranzenhofer, Ritchie, Serino, Seward
9 and Tedisco.
10 Ayes, 44. Nays, 14.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
12 bill is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 145, by Senator Little, Senate Print 2984, an act
15 to authorize certain healthcare professionals
16 licensed to practice in other jurisdictions to
17 practice in this state in connection with an
18 event sanctioned by the World Triathlon
19 Corporation.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
21 the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately and shall
24 expire and be deemed repealed September 12, 2019.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
1253
1 the roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
4 Announce the results.
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
7 bill is passed.
8 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
9 reading of today's noncontroversial calendar.
10 SENATOR GIANARIS: Thank you,
11 Mr. President.
12 Can we now go to the reading of the
13 controversial calendar.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
15 Secretary will ring the bell.
16 The Secretary will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 71,
18 by Senator Carlucci, Senate Print 2403, an act to
19 amend the Mental Hygiene Law.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
21 Griffo, why do you rise?
22 SENATOR GRIFFO: Mr. President, I
23 believe there's an amendment at the desk. I
24 waive the reading of that amendment, and I ask
25 that you call upon Senator Ortt to be heard.
1254
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Thank
2 you, Senator Griffo.
3 Upon review of the amendment, in
4 accordance with Rule 6, Section 4B, I rule it
5 nongermane and out of order at this time.
6 SENATOR GRIFFO: In accordance with
7 that ruling, I appeal the ruling of the chair and
8 ask that you recognize Senator Ortt to be heard
9 on the appeal.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
11 appeal has been made and recognized, and Senator
12 Ortt, you may be heard.
13 SENATOR ORTT: Thank you,
14 Mr. President.
15 As the utilization of social media
16 has increased, so too have the tragic stories of
17 young people taking their lives as a result of
18 bullying, which more and more often in the
19 21st century occurs in online platforms.
20 This can be evidenced by the tragic
21 story of Sadie Riggs, of Bedford, Pennsylvania,
22 who at 15 years of age took her own life after
23 being tormented by classmates on Facebook,
24 Instagram and other social messaging platforms
25 urging her to kill herself.
1255
1 The CDC has reported that suicide is
2 the second-leading cause of death for ages 12 to
3 18.
4 This amendment is germane because
5 prevention measures are a major component of
6 suicide prevention programs. And by
7 criminalizing promoting a suicide via social
8 media, individuals will be less likely to engage
9 in such horrific activity.
10 Additionally, criminalizing such
11 activity evidences the serious nature of suicide.
12 And by accepting this amendment, it will
13 strengthen prevention efforts contained in the
14 suicide prevention program.
15 I would like to commend Senator
16 Carlucci for the bill-in-chief. I was chair of
17 the Mental Health Committee for the past four
18 years. I know he understands the importance of
19 suicide prevention. I understand the importance
20 of suicide prevention. I believe everyone in
21 this chamber understands. And I think
22 recognizing that preventing suicide to include
23 criminalization of online bullying and the
24 encouragement of online suicide I think is very,
25 very important when you think about the young
1256
1 people who have taken their lives as a result of
2 being tormented and bullied, whether it be on
3 Facebook, whether it's on Twitter or Instagram or
4 any other social messaging platform.
5 And so, Mr. President, I would again
6 encourage my colleagues to support this
7 amendment. I think it makes the bill a better
8 bill, and I will be voting in the affirmative.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Thank
10 you, Senator Ortt.
11 I want to remind the house that the
12 vote is on the procedures of the house and the
13 ruling of the chair.
14 Those in favor of overruling the
15 chair signify by saying aye.
16 (Response of "Aye.")
17 SENATOR RITCHIE: Show of hands,
18 please.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: A show
20 of hands has been requested and so ordered.
21 (Show of hands.)
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 16.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
24 ruling of the chair stands, and the bill-in-chief
25 is before the house.
1257
1 Senator Gianaris.
2 SENATOR GIANARIS: Without
3 objection, can we restore this bill to the
4 noncontroversial calendar and take it up.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Without
6 objection, so ordered.
7 Read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
11 the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
14 Carlucci to explain his vote.
15 SENATOR CARLUCCI: Thank you,
16 Mr. President.
17 Unfortunately, the suicide rate in
18 New York State and throughout the United States
19 has dramatically increased over the past decade.
20 The Centers for Disease Control tell us that last
21 year over 47,000 Americans took their own lives.
22 So this is nothing short of a public
23 health emergency, and that's why this legislation
24 is so imperative. What this legislation does is
25 it addresses one of the most disturbing factors
1258
1 that we've seen in the data that show that our
2 youth and our communities of color particularly,
3 also the LGBT community, are far more likely to
4 take their own lives. And that's something that
5 needs to be addressed.
6 So what this legislation does is
7 require the Office of Mental Health, with the
8 Office of Suicide Prevention, to make sure that
9 they're taking into consideration demographic
10 disparities, making sure that the cultural
11 sensitivity, the linguistics -- making sure that
12 the language is appropriate in penetrating the
13 communities that we need to access.
14 We have to make sure that we're
15 doing everything possible, we're sharpening our
16 tools, we're dusting off those tools and making
17 sure that it's effective and efficient in ending
18 this public health crisis.
19 The numbers are alarming. We've
20 seen with our young people an over 70 percent
21 increase in the rate of suicide just in the past
22 10 years.
23 So we have to have all hands on
24 deck. I want to thank my colleagues for
25 supporting this important legislation. And I'm
1259
1 hopeful that this will be one step of many that
2 we take to curbing this suicide rate, to starting
3 to understand what can really make an impact in
4 making sure we turn these numbers around.
5 So thank you, Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
7 Carlucci to be recorded in the affirmative.
8 Announce the results.
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
11 bill is passed.
12 The Secretary will read.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 94,
14 Senate Print 2450A, by Senator Krueger, an act to
15 amend the Penal Law and the General Business Law.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
17 Ortt.
18 SENATOR ORTT: Will the sponsor
19 yield to a few questions?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Would
21 the sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR KRUEGER: Certainly.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR ORTT: Thank you.
1260
1 Through you, Mr. President, can the
2 sponsor tell me if she in fact owns a gun?
3 SENATOR KRUEGER: I'm sorry, I
4 didn't hear the question.
5 SENATOR ORTT: I'm sorry,
6 Mr. President, through you. Would the sponsor
7 tell me in this chamber if she owns a gun or a
8 firearm?
9 SENATOR KRUEGER: I do not own a
10 gun or a firearm.
11 SENATOR ORTT: Thank you,
12 Mr. President. Through you, would the sponsor
13 continue to yield?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Would
15 the sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR KRUEGER: Certainly.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR ORTT: Has the sponsor ever
20 fired a gun?
21 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I have fired
22 a gun. I believe -- I went to summer camp, and
23 they taught us to shoot -- I believe it was .22
24 caliber rifles. Is that a correct number?
25 SENATOR ORTT: That is a correct
1261
1 gauge.
2 SENATOR KRUEGER: That is what I
3 shot.
4 SENATOR ORTT: Okay. Through you,
5 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
6 yield?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
8 the sponsor yield?
9 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I do.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
13 Mr. President, has the sponsor ever stored,
14 unlocked and loaded a gun in the manner that her
15 legislation dictates?
16 SENATOR KRUEGER: I don't own a
17 gun, Mr. President, so I don't believe I have
18 stored it. I guess I have loaded and unloaded
19 the .22 caliber weapons when I was receiving
20 training at summer camp a very long time ago.
21 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
22 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
23 yield?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
25 the sponsor yield?
1262
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, of course.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
5 Mr. President. In short, this bill would require
6 that guns are stored in a way where they cannot
7 be fired immediately; is that correct?
8 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
9 Mr. President. This bill says that if you have
10 children in the home or an expectation that
11 children will be going through your home, you
12 need to keep your guns locked in a way that will
13 prevent the children from having easy access to
14 loaded guns.
15 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
16 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
17 yield?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
19 the sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I do.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR ORTT: So just for
24 clarification, Mr. President, the short answer --
25 I believe the sponsor is correct as I read the
1263
1 bill, but the short answer to my earlier question
2 would be an affirmative or yes; correct?
3 SENATOR KRUEGER: You know, now I'm
4 confused what the short part of the question was.
5 Can you repeat the question and I'll double-check
6 that the short answer was yes?
7 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
8 Mr. President, this bill would require that
9 guns are stored in a way that they cannot be
10 fired immediately.
11 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
12 Mr. President, yes, if there are children in the
13 home.
14 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
15 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
16 yield?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
18 the sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I do.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR ORTT: Who would be the
23 primary enforcement for this law?
24 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
25 Mr. President, the Attorney General.
1264
1 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
2 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
3 yield?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
5 the sponsor yield?
6 SENATOR KRUEGER: I will, but I
7 want to correct myself, if I might.
8 SENATOR ORTT: You may.
9 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you. The
10 Attorney General and also local law enforcement.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
12 the sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I do.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR ORTT: Is there any charge
17 or suspicion that would drive local law
18 enforcement to someone's home? So in other
19 words, many times we have laws or potential
20 penalties in statute that necessitate law
21 enforcement would already have to have a
22 suspicion that a crime or something has been
23 committed.
24 Does this legislation necessitate
25 that there is any previous suspicion of a crime
1265
1 or something that has occurred, or could law
2 enforcement simply roll up on someone's home to
3 see if their guns are stored properly?
4 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
5 Mr. President. The assumption is that this law
6 would be like many other laws where not every law
7 is enforced by an inspection regime, but rather
8 that if there was some reason to believe that
9 there was a gun not being stored correctly in a
10 home where children are, that local law
11 enforcement could choose to explore it. Not
12 dissimilar from when drivers are routinely
13 surveilled and stopped specifically for seat belt
14 enforcement.
15 But as with the seat belt, the law
16 will function through a combination of public
17 education, public knowledge that this is the law,
18 and penalties when law enforcement becomes aware
19 of a violation -- hopefully not after some child
20 has shot or been shot in the home.
21 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
22 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
23 yield?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
25 the sponsor yield?
1266
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I do.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR ORTT: So for my own
5 clarification, Mr. President, so would this
6 require a warrant?
7 SENATOR KRUEGER: My counsel is
8 saying usually they would require a warrant as
9 the underlying basis for making the inspection in
10 the home, yes.
11 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
12 Mr. President, would she continue to yield?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
14 the sponsor yield?
15 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I will.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
19 Mr. President. And excuse my ignorance, I'm not
20 a law enforcement officer, I have never spent my
21 career in law enforcement nor as a prosecutor.
22 So when the sponsor says "usually,"
23 I would just ask the question so she can give me
24 an example where it might be unusual, where a
25 warrant would not be needed?
1267
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
2 Mr. President. So some of the examples, when
3 police are in the home for some other reason and
4 then they see guns loaded and not locked when
5 they know that there are children in the home.
6 Sometimes police get called to a
7 potential crime and believe that there is a
8 reason for them to burst into a home because they
9 believe a crime is taking place, and they go in
10 without a warrant. I also am not a criminal
11 justice specialist, so I believe there are a
12 series of reasons why police make a determination
13 that they can enter a home because of exigent
14 circumstances. I think that's the term they use.
15 She says yes, it's exigent
16 circumstances.
17 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
18 Mr. President, would the sponsor and her counsel
19 continue to yield?
20 (Laughter.)
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
22 the sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I do.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
25 sponsor yields.
1268
1 SENATOR ORTT: Has the sponsor
2 spoken to anyone in law enforcement that may have
3 expressed an interest or are in support of this
4 legislation?
5 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
6 Mr. President, laws like this are on the books in
7 many states of the country. There are law
8 enforcement experts who not only support this
9 bill but work with advocacy groups urging us to
10 pass this kind of legislation.
11 This would not be unique to New York
12 State or even an outlier in the approach that
13 other states are taking to this issue of child
14 safety.
15 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
16 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to
17 yield?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
19 the sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I will.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR ORTT: As a Class A
24 misdemeanor under this legislation -- so a
25 violation of this policy would be a Class A
1269
1 misdemeanor -- would that prevent you from owning
2 a firearm or clearing a background check to
3 purchase one in the future?
4 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
5 Mr. President, no, we do not believe it would.
6 Not under New York State law.
7 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
8 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
9 yield?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
11 the sponsor yield?
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Certainly.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR ORTT: In the Supreme Court
16 case District of Columbia v. Heller, the Supreme
17 Court addressed a D.C. law -- which I'm assuming
18 the sponsor is aware of -- that would require
19 residents to keep lawfully owned firearms
20 unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger
21 lock or a similar device.
22 The court struck down this law and
23 ruled that the requirement that any lawful
24 firearm in the home be disassembled or bound by a
25 trigger lock makes it impossible for citizens to
1270
1 use arms for the core lawful purpose of
2 self-defense, and is therefore unconstitutional.
3 The sponsor's bill, if I may read
4 section 2: "No person who owns or is a custodian
5 of a rifle, shotgun or firearm and knows or has
6 reason to know that a person less than 16 years
7 of age is likely to gain access to such rifle,
8 shotgun or firearm, shall store or otherwise
9 leave such rifle, shotgun or firearm out of his
10 or her immediate possession or control without
11 having first securely locked such rifle, shotgun
12 or firearm in an appropriate safe storage
13 depository or rendered it incapable of being
14 fired by using a gun-locking device appropriate
15 to that weapon."
16 So the Supreme Court has already
17 struck down a law that required firearms to be
18 stored unloaded or incapable of being fired. I'm
19 curious as to how this bill is different and how
20 it does not also impede the core aspect of the
21 Second Amendment, which is self-defense,
22 constitutionally.
23 SENATOR KRUEGER: We're trying to
24 get you an answer.
25 Right away, we know that the D.C.
1271
1 law was different than New York law, so they were
2 striking down a D.C. law. We believe it was
3 related to handguns, and we're looking -- so you
4 are correct, the D.C. law was struck down. We
5 don't think this is parallel to the D.C. law.
6 And Massachusetts already has a law requiring
7 locking in a container or storage for a safety
8 device.
9 And this is actually an expansion of
10 current New York law, so we don't think the D.C.
11 case applies to this law. Although I suppose if
12 somebody wanted to take a stab at a court case,
13 they always could.
14 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
15 Mr. President, on the bill.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
17 Ortt on the bill.
18 SENATOR ORTT: I would like to
19 thank the sponsor for her answers. But I think
20 for me and many of my constituents and colleagues
21 here, they do nothing to allay our concerns and
22 objections to legislation.
23 I in fact -- now, I'm not an
24 attorney, but to me the Second Amendment is not
25 about hunting, it's not about sportsmen. Those
1272
1 are bonuses of having that freedom here in this
2 country. The Second Amendment is about
3 self-defense of your person and property. That
4 is why we have it. That is why it is the Second
5 Amendment, not the 18th or the 20th.
6 And this bill I think quite clearly
7 impedes on somebody's ability to act in their own
8 self-defense and use a firearm for that purpose.
9 Because you would have to open a safe, take out
10 your pistol, and then open a different safe or go
11 to another location in your home to access your
12 ammunition, and then load the firearm.
13 Now, there may be some folks in here
14 who are speed loaders, as we used to call them in
15 the military. But the truth is many people keep
16 a loaded weapon in a safe for the purposes of
17 using that pistol in the immediate occurrence of
18 an intruder or if someone comes into their home.
19 This bill really prevents that from being the
20 case.
21 A couple of weeks ago we passed a
22 bill that forcibly disarmed teachers, said they
23 could not defend themselves -- not whether they
24 wanted to or not, they couldn't. And today, in
25 my view, we are forcibly disarming people in
1273
1 their own homes.
2 I believe some of the questions on
3 the legalities were fuzzy. But at the end of the
4 day, this bill is yet another infringement --
5 however much my colleagues in the Majority may
6 see it at the edges, this is another infringement
7 on the Second Amendment, and is in fact at the
8 core of why we have the Second Amendment. It is
9 an infringement and a restriction on someone's
10 right to defend themselves and their family in
11 their homes.
12 And so for those reasons,
13 Mr. President, I will be in the negative.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
15 Akshar.
16 SENATOR AKSHAR: Will the sponsor
17 yield to a couple of -- excuse me, the sponsor
18 wishes to speak.
19 SENATOR KRUEGER: No, please.
20 SENATOR AKSHAR: I defer to the
21 sponsor.
22 SENATOR KRUEGER: No. You know
23 what, I was going to speak on the bill, but I am
24 happy to take more questions before I do so.
25 So please allow Senator Akshar --
1274
1 SENATOR AKSHAR: First and
2 foremost, Senator Krueger, good to see you. It's
3 been a while since you've been here. And I won't
4 speak for everybody, but I certainly missed you.
5 (Laughter.)
6 SENATOR AKSHAR: Would the sponsor
7 yield to a couple of questions?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
9 the sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you. And
11 in fairness, I missed you --
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
13 the sponsor yield?
14 SENATOR KRUEGER: I'm going to
15 yield and announce that my not being here for a
16 while doesn't mean I wasn't here. I was in the
17 budget hearings in the basement for a month, and
18 anybody who wished to come down and join me, as
19 did Senator Seward each and every day, was
20 welcome to participate.
21 But I'm glad to be back in the
22 chambers and I'm happy to answer your questions.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR AKSHAR: I should have
1275
1 articulated a little bit better, Mr. President.
2 If the sponsor would yield -- as she
3 said she would -- Senator Krueger, would you
4 define the "immediate possession or control" as
5 indicated in this statute?
6 SENATOR KRUEGER: Certainly.
7 Apparently there is no absolute
8 definition. It would be up to a court to
9 determine. But it is clear from an example of
10 existing Westchester law that if it is in your
11 immediate possession or control, say in your bed
12 at night because you like to sleep with a gun for
13 personal protection, that that would be
14 recognized as immediate control.
15 So some people -- I believe the
16 previous questioner was getting close to that
17 question. But I think that that actually would
18 be considered in your immediate possession.
19 SENATOR AKSHAR: So if you'll
20 indulge me and continue to yield just for a
21 couple more questions.
22 SENATOR KRUEGER: Certainly.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR AKSHAR: So if I had a
1276
1 loaded handgun in my nightstand which was located
2 next to my bed, is that in the immediate
3 possession or control?
4 SENATOR KRUEGER: So while I don't
5 think it's been litigated, the general sense is
6 that that would be considered in your immediate
7 control.
8 But if you got up to take a shower
9 in the middle of the night, you might want to
10 take it to the bathroom with you.
11 SENATOR AKSHAR: Will the sponsor
12 continue to yield?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
14 the sponsor yield?
15 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR AKSHAR: Just I'll take it
19 one step further. If I were driving my SUV or
20 car and that firearm was in my glove box and/or
21 in my trunk, would that be considered in my
22 immediate possession or control?
23 SENATOR KRUEGER: If it is locked
24 and it would be difficult to break into, that I
25 think would be considered. Although there are
1277
1 other laws in New York State about driving around
2 with certain types of guns in your car or truck,
3 so I don't want to speak for any other law we
4 might have on the books, but just for the child
5 safety question in this law.
6 SENATOR AKSHAR: Will the sponsor
7 continue to yield?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
9 the sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I would.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR AKSHAR: So is this
14 legislation as authored, is it limited to just
15 someone's home or does it apply to somebody's
16 barn or shed or hunting cabin?
17 SENATOR KRUEGER: I think your
18 personal property, so I would assume your barn
19 and your hunting shed would also be -- well, is a
20 hunting shed something up in a tree in the woods?
21 Or is there some other definition of a hunting
22 shed?
23 SENATOR AKSHAR: No, where I come
24 from that's called a tree stand. But, you know,
25 I suppose you could have a shed attached to a
1278
1 tree. That's a treehouse where I come from. I
2 don't know what it's like in Manhattan.
3 (Laughter.)
4 SENATOR KRUEGER: We don't have
5 enough trees to -- through you, Mr. President, we
6 don't have enough trees to have treehouses.
7 I suppose if the treehouse is
8 intended for your children, I would argue that's
9 a bad place to store your guns. But if in fact a
10 hunting shed is something on your property like
11 your barn might be, that would be defined as your
12 property like your home, yes.
13 SENATOR AKSHAR: Will the sponsor
14 continue to yield?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
16 the sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR KRUEGER: Certainly.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR AKSHAR: Is there a
21 provision in the statute that would allow people
22 to protect themselves from bodily injury?
23 SENATOR KRUEGER: There's nothing
24 in this law that says you can't protect yourself.
25 We're just trying to protect the children in your
1279
1 home.
2 SENATOR AKSHAR: Mr. President,
3 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
4 yield.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
6 the sponsor yield?
7 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I will.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR AKSHAR: Do you believe
11 that the legislation as written would actually
12 hamper one's ability to protect themselves?
13 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
14 Mr. President, no, I don't. The research shows
15 that only fewer than 1 percent of crime victims
16 use a gun in self-defense. There are far larger
17 numbers of violent accidental incidents and
18 suicides in one's home because one has a gun.
19 The fact that this law allows you to
20 keep it as an adult on your personal body or to
21 have it with you when you're sleeping or, again,
22 to take it with you to the shower, I do not think
23 that it limits your ability to have a gun for
24 personal protection.
25 SENATOR AKSHAR: Mr. President,
1280
1 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
2 yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
4 the sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I will.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR AKSHAR: I just want to
9 talk about safe storage for a moment, if we may.
10 Can you just describe to the room what safe
11 storage means as written in the statute?
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: So the gun would
13 have to be locked in some kind of safe locking
14 device without ammunition in it. Or secured by a
15 trigger lock on the gun itself.
16 SENATOR AKSHAR: If the sponsor
17 would continue to yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
19 the sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR AKSHAR: I'm just looking
24 for some clarification, Senator. So I have a
25 .30-06 rifle, it needs to be put in a locked box
1281
1 unloaded and then locked again in that box, is
2 that how you describe it?
3 SENATOR KRUEGER: No, I -- through
4 you, Mr. President, if it's in a locked box it
5 does not have to be unloaded. I was incorrect.
6 SENATOR AKSHAR: Okay, I'm on the
7 bill for just a second --
8 SENATOR KRUEGER: Or it could be
9 secured by a trigger lock.
10 SENATOR AKSHAR: Would the --
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
12 Akshar on the bill.
13 SENATOR AKSHAR: Excuse me. I said
14 that, but I'm going to pull that back.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Okay.
16 SENATOR AKSHAR: Would the sponsor
17 continue to yield?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
19 the sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR KRUEGER: Of course.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR AKSHAR: I'm wrapping up
24 here. I just want to talk about a particular
25 situation, something I experienced when I was a
1282
1 member of law enforcement. This is a real-life
2 situation.
3 If an adult, a father took -- he was
4 a firearm collector, and he locked up all of his
5 weapons and ammunitions in a safe storage box as
6 described by you, was very responsible. And he
7 had a child who had mental health issues. And
8 that same child used an axe to break into the
9 safe storage box, take a firearm out of a box
10 that was being used to hold firearms, and then
11 used that firearm to kill his girlfriend and then
12 himself.
13 Would that father then be
14 responsible under this statute, criminally
15 responsible?
16 SENATOR KRUEGER: If it was
17 appropriately stored, no, I don't believe the
18 father would.
19 I suspect the father would suffer
20 from enormous guilt for the rest of his life. I
21 just read an recent article about a similar
22 tragedy where the child got the gun, loaded it,
23 and fatally shot himself in the head. The father
24 came home, was so despondent, he killed himself
25 because his son had killed himself with a gun.
1283
1 So I can't even imagine what a
2 parent would go through if they came home and
3 discovered that their children had done harm to
4 themselves or others with a gun. That would
5 probably be a much greater issue for that parent
6 than the potential for a misdemeanor, which I do
7 not believe would apply in the story you just
8 offered me.
9 SENATOR AKSHAR: On the bill,
10 Mr. President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
12 Akshar on the bill.
13 SENATOR AKSHAR: I think this house
14 is unique in many respects, in that I think we
15 all want the same thing, right, to protect
16 New Yorkers, make New York the safest place it
17 can possibly be.
18 But in this particular piece of
19 legislation, for me, I firmly believe that what
20 it does is it makes firearms useless to people
21 who need to use them for self-defense. People
22 who are responsible men and women, who take care
23 of their firearms, but God forbid they had to use
24 a firearm for self-defense -- they wouldn't be
25 able to do that.
1284
1 And while I know some people in this
2 room are supportive of this, I think there is
3 another group of people who are going to be
4 supportive of this particular piece of
5 legislation, and it's criminals. People, we're
6 making life a little bit easier for them and much
7 harder for law-abiding citizens, which really,
8 for me, as spoken by Senator Ortt, the Second
9 Amendment is important.
10 And I think this in fact is an
11 infringement on the Second Amendment, and I'll be
12 voting no. And Senator Krueger, thank you.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
14 Tedisco.
15 SENATOR TEDISCO: Thank you,
16 Mr. President. Would the Senator yield for --
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
18 the sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR KRUEGER: I will.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR TEDISCO: Thank you,
23 Senator.
24 When Senator Ortt was speaking about
25 your bill and reading some of the wording of it,
1285
1 he mentioned "likely to have access to a weapon
2 for usage." What does "likely" mean?
3 SENATOR KRUEGER: So "likely" is
4 not the language in the bill. The bill itself
5 says: No person who owns or is the custodian of
6 a rifle, shotgun or firearm and knows or has
7 reason to know that a person less than 16 years
8 of age is likely to gain access to these items in
9 a home, must lock it away or have a fire safety
10 lock.
11 SENATOR TEDISCO: Would the
12 gentlewoman yield again, Senator?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
14 the sponsor yield?
15 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I will.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR TEDISCO: So "likely" is a
19 part of this piece of legislation, Senator, to
20 likely be able to have access. Would she yield,
21 through you, once again?
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
23 the sponsor yield?
24 SENATOR KRUEGER: I don't think
25 that was a question, but I will still yield if --
1286
1 SENATOR TEDISCO: Yeah, another
2 question.
3 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes. Please.
4 SENATOR TEDISCO: So 16 and under
5 is the age group that they would have to be
6 likely. You're shaking your head. Is that yes?
7 Yes.
8 Would she yield again?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
10 the sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR TEDISCO: So a six-or-
15 eight-week-old baby in a crib who can't walk,
16 with an eight-foot cabinet that has a drawer,
17 would they be likely to have access to a gun
18 unattended that was not locked that had
19 ammunition in it?
20 SENATOR KRUEGER: No, they wouldn't
21 likely be able to have that.
22 SENATOR TEDISCO: So you could have
23 a six-or-eight-week-old child -- excuse me.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Yeah,
25 you've got to ask if the sponsor -- just ask it.
1287
1 Ask me.
2 SENATOR TEDISCO: Would an
3 eight-week-old child or a three-month child or a
4 six-month-old --
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
6 Tedisco. Senator Tedisco. Ask me, will the
7 sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR TEDISCO: Oh. Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
11 the sponsor yield?
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR KRUEGER: So you're asking
16 me if it's a house where you only imagine you
17 have infants incapable of climbing out of their
18 cribs and climbing somewhere else?
19 SENATOR TEDISCO: Yes.
20 SENATOR KRUEGER: I think that's an
21 excellent question --
22 SENATOR TEDISCO: Thank you.
23 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
24 Although I would hypothesize that
25 given the fact that you have an infant in your
1288
1 home, it's also quite reasonable to assume you
2 might have other friends and family members who
3 are also of the age to have young children they
4 might be bringing to your home to visit the baby.
5 I know my niece just had a -- niece
6 and nephew just had a baby about three weeks ago,
7 and everybody's coming to visit them to celebrate
8 the new baby, and they're bringing their children
9 with them.
10 So in fact the statistics on the
11 risk to children is specifically starting at the
12 toddler age. A two-year-old found a loaded gun
13 and shot and killed his father, who was asleep at
14 the time. Toddlers are a disproportionately
15 large percentage of children who are actually
16 getting the guns and shooting them.
17 So, you know, it's a tricky question
18 about at what age should you be worried. I know
19 my sisters, who both have wonderful children --
20 and now grandchildren -- point out that they
21 would never allow their children to play in a
22 home that had unlocked guns because they were so
23 concerned.
24 So the question of will there be
25 children in your home might not just be your own,
1289
1 but visitors as well. I think grandparents have
2 to be exceptionally concerned with small children
3 around, for example.
4 SENATOR TEDISCO: Would the Senator
5 yield for further questions?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
7 the sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR KRUEGER: Certainly.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR TEDISCO: So I didn't see
12 where it appeared in the bill that "likely" would
13 relate to those who might visit you in the
14 future. So the question is to you if I had a
15 baby who could not walk, who was in a crib, I
16 guess it wouldn't be illegal, according to the
17 language in this law, unless that person visited
18 and you had the gun not locked up.
19 If no one ever visited, I guess by
20 the term "likely" it would virtually be
21 impossible, because they can't walk and they
22 certainly couldn't get up to a drawer that was
23 eight feet high if you stored it there unloaded.
24 So would it not be legal to do that, then?
25 SENATOR KRUEGER: No, I believe
1290
1 under this bill -- through you, Mr. President --
2 if children are under 16. It doesn't get into
3 the nitty-gritty of at what age you start to be
4 able to climb out of a crib or pull yourself up
5 on furniture.
6 In the articles I have here, the
7 youngest age I'm finding is an 18-month-old who
8 police say found a loaded pistol on a bed and
9 shot himself in the face. I think most parents
10 of very young children know that they are perhaps
11 at the greatest risk of doing things you never
12 imagined they would do or were capable of doing.
13 So I think I would make the case
14 that no matter how young that child was in my
15 home, I would want to be in extra due diligence
16 to make sure they don't get access to a loaded
17 weapon.
18 SENATOR TEDISCO: Would the Senator
19 yield for --
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
21 the sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I will.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR TEDISCO: Senator, in your
1291
1 Senate district, how's your broadband and web
2 infrastructure? Is it good?
3 SENATOR KRUEGER: Broadband and web
4 infrastructure?
5 SENATOR TEDISCO: Yeah.
6 SENATOR KRUEGER: Well, we have
7 Spectrum, so we all hate them. But I think
8 technically we're defined as territory that has
9 better internet access than many.
10 SENATOR TEDISCO: Great. Would the
11 Senator yield for --
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
13 the sponsor yield?
14 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I will
15 yield.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR TEDISCO: How about your
19 cellphone usage, pretty good coverage out there?
20 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yeah, I'm going
21 to give cellphones more points than cable at the
22 moment and internet at home, sure.
23 SENATOR TEDISCO: Okay. Would the
24 Senator yield?
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
1292
1 the sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I will.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR TEDISCO: So you're aware
6 we passed Senator Metzger's bill about taking
7 into consideration rural areas for suicide. I
8 think that's a great idea. Different
9 demographics.
10 My Senate district, 70 percent of my
11 towns are in the Adirondacks. You probably heard
12 me say this on the floor, it's a 4,000-square-
13 mile district. Broadband is an anomaly for many
14 of the individuals. When I go up to the upper
15 corners of my district, I can't call anybody,
16 they can't call anybody with a cellphone.
17 Do you think there should be some
18 consideration for those individuals -- and I've
19 mentioned this before -- who need actually smoke
20 signals or homing pigeons to get an emergency
21 vehicle if there's a fire, a first responder if
22 there's a burglary, a law enforcement official --
23 to protect themselves, to have to go to a locked
24 area to get a gun when they're being burglarized
25 or their family is attacked?
1293
1 You have the website there, you have
2 the infrastructure, you have the cellphone usage.
3 We don't have that in those areas. Should there
4 be some consideration for those people who can't
5 get those emergency vehicles there when they're
6 entered, as we've talked about the Second
7 Amendment, to protect your family and yourself?
8 SENATOR KRUEGER: So I completely
9 agree, we need to do a better job of making sure
10 we have internet access and web access throughout
11 the State of New York. No debate.
12 I don't think you win me on this
13 argument today, because I think that anybody who
14 is either a hunter or has guns in their home will
15 assure you that the speed at which they could
16 unlock their safety lock gun or unlock a gun from
17 a box would still be radically faster than their
18 ability to make a call and assume an emergency
19 responder would show up.
20 So I don't really accept the analogy
21 on this example, even though I agree with you on
22 the importance of making sure everyone has
23 internet.
24 SENATOR TEDISCO: On the bill,
25 Mr. President.
1294
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
2 Tedisco on the bill.
3 SENATOR TEDISCO: Yeah, my
4 constituents in those upper-level areas are not
5 only concerned about the Second Amendment but
6 concerned about protecting their families. And
7 even if they can get the firearm, they're very
8 concerned about trying to get help if they can
9 hold off somebody that's impending {sic} to come
10 into their house, knocking on that door. They
11 don't want to harm people. They don't want to
12 use a weapon to protect their family.
13 And Senator and my colleagues, if
14 they are quick-draw in terms of opening locks and
15 getting that firearm, they want to hold them off,
16 first of all, and say "Don't come in this house,
17 I have a weapon." And if they continue, they
18 want to make sure when they made that 911 call
19 that someone's coming to help them and stop those
20 individuals from the outside.
21 Because I agree with you, nobody
22 wants to use a weapon to harm anybody, but they
23 want to protect their families.
24 Thank you, Mr. President.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
1295
1 Ranzenhofer.
2 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Will the
3 sponsor of this legislation yield for a question?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
5 the sponsor yields?
6 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I will.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Thank you
10 very much.
11 Through you, Mr. President, I'd like
12 to ask the sponsor -- one of the things that we
13 do when we enact legislation is we want to try to
14 provide clarity to the residents of the State of
15 New York so they know what they have to do and
16 what they can't do. Would you agree with that?
17 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
18 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Okay. One of
19 the things that gave me a little bit of pause --
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
21 Ranzenhofer.
22 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Through you
23 of course, Mr. President.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
25 the sponsor yield?
1296
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: So as I was
5 saying, one of the things that was occurring in
6 your dialogue with Senator Ortt when he was
7 asking you about, well, how do you define his or
8 her immediate possession or control. I think you
9 said, Well, it's really a little bit fuzzy, and
10 that would really be up to the courts to
11 determine what is in your immediate possession or
12 control.
13 So my question is that without that
14 really being defined in the statute, how does a
15 law-abiding citizen, upon passage of this
16 legislation, know whether or not they are in
17 compliance with the law if, as you stated, well,
18 that would have been prospective, that would be
19 up to a court. How does a resident comply with
20 this law if it really isn't clear how that's
21 defined in the statute?
22 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
23 Mr. President. So there is local law in
24 Westchester, and it's existed since 2013 -- it's
25 been in state law since 2013, excuse me, not
1297
1 Westchester law -- and so nobody has litigated.
2 So again the example I was giving to
3 Mr. Ortt or perhaps Mr. Akshar -- now I'm not
4 sure which one I answered that question to -- is
5 that if it's in your immediate possession or
6 control, including a scenario where it's next to
7 you in bed or in the nightstand, that would meet
8 the requirement. So I don't really think there's
9 very much gray area here.
10 And I think what is far more
11 important to understand is this bill is not
12 impacting your Second Amendment right to have a
13 gun or to protect yourself. This bill is
14 targeted to -- oh, bad pun. Sorry,
15 Mr. President. This bill is targeted to make
16 sure that children under the age of 16 don't get
17 access to a loaded gun, because that is where bad
18 things have been happening.
19 SENATOR RANZENHOFER:
20 Mr. President, through you, thank you for that
21 answer. But that really was not --
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
23 Ranzenhofer --
24 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Yeah, will
25 the sponsor continue to yield?
1298
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
2 the sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: So I
7 understand your comment that this doesn't deal
8 with your usage of the gun, it only deals with
9 the possession of a gun. But if you can't use
10 the gun, really what good does it do you to be
11 able to possess it? And that's where I think a
12 lot of the arguments were coming from.
13 I understand the argument that
14 you're making. But if you are a homeowner or an
15 apartment dweller and you want to protect your
16 family, your loved ones, and you're allowed to
17 possess the weapon -- which this bill doesn't
18 ban -- but you're not allowed to use the weapon,
19 how can you protect your family if you really
20 cannot effectively use the firearm that you have
21 to protect your family?
22 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
23 Mr. President. It doesn't limit your having a
24 gun, it doesn't limit your protecting yourself or
25 your family.
1299
1 If you think about it, we're simply
2 talking about if you have a child in the house,
3 having a safe locking device on the gun.
4 I don't know how quickly any of you
5 imagine you would need to pull a gun out on an
6 intruder, but I would question anyone who
7 imagines they couldn't do a release of the
8 locking device and still have exactly the access
9 they were hoping to at that moment in time.
10 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Through you,
11 Mr. President, let me just share with you an
12 example in my district where there was --
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Are you
14 asking the Senator to yield for a question?
15 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Of course.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
17 the Senator yield?
18 SENATOR KRUEGER: Of course.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
20 Senator yields.
21 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Permit me to
22 share with you a situation in my district where a
23 young couple who lived in the neighborhood was
24 asleep at night, and somebody broke into their
25 home and the person was coming up the stairs, and
1300
1 there was a firing, which was then -- I mean, it
2 was then investigated.
3 If that person is able to possess
4 the gun but not able to really effectively use
5 the gun in time to protect himself or herself and
6 their family, how does the legislation really
7 help everybody if you have it but you can't
8 effectively use it? Whether it's locked, whether
9 it's stored in a cabinet, whether it's in your
10 possession or immediate control.
11 If you're really defeating the
12 purpose of trying to protect your family -- I
13 understand how you're accomplishing one goal, but
14 how does this accomplish the other goal of being
15 able to protect yourself or your family in those
16 type of very quick-occurring, middle of the
17 night, often, situations where time is very, very
18 important and -- you know, this bill would
19 certainly be an impediment to that.
20 SENATOR KRUEGER: I thank the
21 sponsor for his question.
22 Again, I think perhaps people have
23 gotten off the visual for themselves of if it's
24 in your control or possession, you're fine, you
25 don't have to have it locked away or even the
1301
1 safety lock turned on.
2 If it's not in your immediate
3 possession or on your body, you are supposed to
4 have either a safety lock -- which I'm told are
5 incredibly common items now that fit almost all
6 guns -- and if you actually don't have it on your
7 possession and aren't safety-locking it, you are
8 supposed to have it locked in a box. It's your
9 judgment call in your own home, that couple in
10 that story or anyone else, whether they want to
11 have it in their possession unlocked at that time
12 when they -- I think you described them, it was
13 late at night, perhaps they were in their bedroom
14 and they heard someone coming in. They may have
15 the gun there.
16 But if they have children in the
17 home or an expectation of children visiting their
18 home, why does anyone think it either decreases
19 their safety or isn't an excellent idea to make
20 sure that those guns, whatever they are and how
21 many they are, aren't either locked or have a
22 lock on them to prevent children from getting
23 access to them? That's all this bill does, try
24 to protect children from accidentally getting
25 ahold of a loaded weapon and using it
1302
1 unintentionally on themselves, their siblings,
2 their own parents.
3 Because that's what this bill is
4 about. It doesn't take a gun away from anyone.
5 It doesn't create a new criminal penalty for
6 them. And it doesn't even really impose a
7 serious limitation on their ability to have the
8 gun and to be able to use it if they feel they
9 need to in their own home or on their own
10 property.
11 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Thank you for
12 that answer.
13 Mr. President, would you ask the
14 sponsor if she would continue to yield to another
15 question?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
17 the sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I will.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
20 sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: So I
22 understand, you know, what you're trying to say.
23 And obviously, you know, there are different
24 parts of this legislation which affect different
25 people.
1303
1 But you had just mentioned that
2 there are no new criminal penalties. But doesn't
3 this legislation in fact pose -- make it an
4 A misdemeanor, which means that if someone
5 violates this statute -- let's say there is a
6 tragedy in somebody's home and the police come in
7 under those exigent circumstances and they find,
8 oh, lo and behold, that, you know, the cabinet
9 wasn't properly locked or that the gun trigger
10 wasn't on there -- in addition to that, that
11 person can then spend up to a year in jail under
12 your legislation that you're proposing today. Is
13 that correct?
14 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
15 Mr. President, I'd like to correct myself. An
16 A misdemeanor is under the criminal code, thank
17 you. I always forget and think of misdemeanors
18 as things like smoking in public or adultery or
19 things like that. But that was not the case in
20 this example.
21 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Well,
22 adultery and smoking in public are not quite the
23 same thing as spending a year in jail for a
24 violation here. But someone could spend a year
25 in jail under this particular statute.
1304
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Are you
2 asking the sponsor a question?
3 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: If the
4 sponsor would be kind enough to yield --
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
6 the sponsor yield?
7 SENATOR KRUEGER: -- or on the
8 bill, I'm not sure.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: So I'll just
12 repeat the question. So someone could in fact
13 spend up to one year in the local county jail as
14 a result of violating this statute, is that
15 correct?
16 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
17 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Okay. And
18 one other final question if the sponsor would
19 continue to yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
21 the sponsor continue to yield?
22 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I will.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: So one of the
1305
1 things that -- I mean, we talked about different
2 examples, and we talked about, again, the issue
3 of possession and control.
4 So if you are asleep and you have
5 the gun, are you in possession and control of the
6 gun if it's as you -- as the example that you had
7 used, it's lying on your nightstand or lying in
8 the bedroom -- if you're asleep, are you in
9 possession and control of that gun? Or if you
10 are asleep, does it have to be in a different
11 spot, locked up without the ammunition?
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: No, I think the
13 precedent is that if it's in your nightstand or
14 on your bed, that is considered to be in your
15 control even if you're asleep.
16 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Even if
17 you're asleep, okay.
18 Thank you very much for your --
19 SENATOR KRUEGER: That's why I said
20 you should take it to the shower with you if you
21 decided to shower in the evening.
22 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Well, I'll
23 leave mine on the nightstand. Thank you,
24 Senator.
25 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
1306
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Are
2 there any other Senators wishing to be heard?
3 Senator Krueger.
4 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
5 I appreciated all of my colleagues'
6 questions.
7 And I know that there is a -- almost
8 a gut reaction by some people that we just can't
9 impose any new rules on gun owners. But I urge
10 everyone to think about this bill in the context
11 of what it's really doing, which is protecting
12 children.
13 And it's not hypothetical,
14 Mr. President. A 2018 study found that
15 4.6 million children in the United States live in
16 homes with at least one firearm that is loaded
17 and unlocked. Alarmingly, another study found
18 that 43 percent of gun-owning homes with children
19 kept a weapon without a trigger lock in an
20 unlocked place. That includes a large number of
21 minors with risks for suicide.
22 The CDC reports that between -- in
23 the last decade -- well, 2004 to 2014, more than
24 6,000 minors intentionally shot themselves, and
25 the vast majority used guns owned by someone in
1307
1 their home. The majority of those killed were
2 12 or younger.
3 We did a previous bill on rural
4 suicide. Many of those suicides are young people
5 getting access to guns from their own homes.
6 Here in New York, tragically, more than
7 300 children age 16 or younger committed suicide
8 using their family's firearms in the decade 2008
9 to 2017.
10 And the CDC also reports that
11 roughly 20,000 children in the United States were
12 killed or seriously injured in accidental
13 shootings from 2005 to 2014.
14 The Secret Service and the federal
15 Department of Education found that in 68 percent
16 of school shootings, the shooter used a gun
17 obtained from their home or the home of a
18 relative.
19 I have no question, children getting
20 access to loaded weapons creates crisis. They're
21 killing themselves. They're killing their
22 parents. The tragedies go on and on and on,
23 including just a substudy of toddlers 3 and under
24 shooting themselves or their parents. I gave a
25 couple of references during the debate.
1308
1 The youngest toddler involved in a
2 shooting was an 18-month-old from Nashville who
3 police say found a loaded pistol on a bed and
4 shot himself in the face. His injuries were not
5 fatal. But so far this year, 17 toddler
6 shootings have ended up in fatality, with 26
7 additional resulting in non-life-threatening
8 injury.
9 Storing guns responsibly, locked and
10 unloaded or with safety triggers -- safety locks,
11 excuse me -- is unquestionably a critical step to
12 protect our young people and ourselves. Because
13 you might be the responsible gun owner who wants
14 it for all the right reasons -- but again, you
15 come home and you find your child shot your other
16 child or your child shot themselves dead, it
17 doesn't matter what you thought about this issue,
18 you will be haunted for the rest of your life.
19 Or as in one example in
20 South Carolina when 2-year-old Kyree Myers found
21 a loaded gun at his home and fatally shot himself
22 in the head. His father then killed himself with
23 the same gun.
24 That's not acceptable. And all
25 we're asking for is to ensure that people who
1309
1 have children in their homes keep themselves and
2 their children protected from unintended uses of
3 those guns. I hope my colleagues will join me in
4 voting yes.
5 Thank you, Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Are
7 there any other Senators wishing to be heard?
8 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
9 closed.
10 The Secretary will ring the bell.
11 Read the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
13 act shall take effect on the 60th day after it
14 shall have become a law.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
19 Harckham to explain his vote.
20 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Thank you,
21 Mr. President.
22 I want to thank Senator Krueger for
23 her leadership on this -- what I think is a very
24 important bill.
25 And I would like to say, for the
1310
1 record, that I don't think it matters that she
2 doesn't own firearms or that I may own firearms.
3 This is about commonsense safety.
4 You know, as Senator Krueger
5 alluded, we've had this legislation in
6 Westchester County for more than a decade. There
7 have been no issues with constitutional
8 challenges. There have been no issues with
9 people being unable to defend themselves in their
10 house. But people have been safer.
11 You know, in one of the other
12 counties that I represent, two weeks ago a high
13 school student shot himself dead with four of his
14 friends, while either showing them or playing
15 with a family weapon. Now, are we to say that
16 that is the price of freedom? You know, after
17 Columbine we said that was the price of freedom.
18 After Sandy Hook, we said that was the price of
19 freedom. After Parkland, we said that was the
20 price of freedom.
21 I'm not going back to my district
22 and when people ask me if I had an opportunity to
23 do something about this and said it was the price
24 of freedom -- I'm saying no to that. And I'm
25 voting yes to Senator Krueger's bill to keep our
1311
1 kids safe.
2 I vote aye. Thank you,
3 Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
5 Harckham to be recorded in the affirmative.
6 Senator Stavisky to explain her
7 vote.
8 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you,
9 Mr. President.
10 First I'd like to remind my
11 colleagues that the Second Amendment deals with a
12 well-regulated militia.
13 Secondly, we register our cars. I
14 think that is a really good example. And we
15 require inspection, we require car seats,
16 children in car seats, and so on. So to me, this
17 is comparable to ensuring child safety, and not
18 anything else. Nobody is taking anyone's gun
19 away.
20 On the other hand, I think we have
21 an obligation to protect child safety. And for
22 that reason, I thank Senator Krueger and I vote
23 aye.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
25 Stavisky to be recorded in the affirmative.
1312
1 Senator Savino to explain her vote.
2 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you,
3 Mr. President.
4 I also rise in support of Senator
5 Krueger's bill. And I think it's very important
6 to recognize that she addresses the issue of
7 making sure that people have access to their
8 legal handguns and weapons in their home, but
9 also addresses how important it is that if those
10 weapons are not within their control, that
11 children in their homes are not able to get ahold
12 of them.
13 I just want to share with you a
14 story from my own childhood. When I was very
15 young my father had weapons because he owned a
16 bar and he needed them for the protection of his
17 business. And he kept those weapons in the
18 house, he had handguns.
19 And, you know, little children, they
20 follow what their parents do. So I knew where my
21 father kept those guns. He kept them in a box in
22 the closet. And one day my mother went in to
23 take a shower, and she came out of the shower and
24 she found me sitting on the floor of the bedroom
25 with my father's .38 caliber revolver in my hand.
1313
1 My mother reacted the way any normal
2 person would -- she screamed and she ran back
3 into the bathroom. And then she in a split
4 second realized she needed to come out and get
5 that handgun out of my hands. And she did, and
6 then she made my father take those guns out of
7 the house and secure them somewhere else.
8 And that's how fast it can happen.
9 A toddler follows their father or their mother,
10 sees where they hide the weapons. You think
11 they're secure, and the next thing you know, you
12 find them on the floor of the bedroom with a .38
13 caliber in their hand.
14 That's why this legislation is
15 important. And I want to thank Senator Krueger
16 for enacting it, and I want to thank my
17 colleagues for supporting it. I vote aye.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
19 Savino to be recorded in the affirmative.
20 Senator Jacobs to explain his vote.
21 SENATOR JACOBS: Thank you very
22 much.
23 I understand the intent of this
24 bill. But when we're dealing with a
25 constitutional amendment, I really believe, as
1314
1 Senator Ranzenhofer mentioned, there really needs
2 to be an abundance of clarity on that.
3 And there's some elements of this
4 bill that just concern me in terms of lawful gun
5 owners having clarity on what is legal and what
6 is illegal, what will cause them to potentially
7 be vulnerable to going to jail if law enforcement
8 ended up being in their home.
9 The question of immediate possession
10 and control. I know there was a joke about you
11 need to take your firearm with you to the shower,
12 but the vagary is saying that may be the case and
13 you may be violating the law if you don't.
14 Also, "knows or having reason to
15 know." I think the example that was mentioned of
16 having a newborn in your home and no older
17 children, but that law enforcement could come in
18 and say, Well, you may have reason to know, you
19 should know that somebody could come over to
20 visit, and therefore you are breaking the law.
21 And with all due respect, to compare
22 this at all to any regulation in terms of in an
23 automobile -- that is very different than a home.
24 It is constitutionally very different than a
25 home.
1315
1 So with all due respect, the intent
2 is a good one. I would be amenable to looking at
3 this if there was more clarity on the bill. But
4 because of the lack of clarity, because this is a
5 constitutional amendment, I cannot be in support
6 of it. Thank you.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
8 Jacobs to be recorded in the negative.
9 Senator Skoufis to explain his vote.
10 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Thank you very
11 much, Mr. President.
12 You know, I rise in support of this
13 bill and I want to thank the sponsor for her
14 willingness to really accommodate some issues
15 that I had raised over the course of these
16 negotiations and specifically tailoring this bill
17 to children or the prospect of children being in
18 a household.
19 And I would just -- you know, I want
20 to read very briefly something from a website
21 that I just pulled up. The section of this
22 website is entitled "Store Guns So They Are Not
23 Accessible to Unauthorized Persons." Later on in
24 that section it reads: "Mechanical safeties
25 built into guns can fail and should not be used
1316
1 as a substitute for safe gun handling and the
2 observance of all gun safety rules."
3 This is the website -- the web page
4 I'm on is the NRA's Gun Safety Rules. It's from
5 the NRA's website.
6 I would argue that this shouldn't be
7 a political issue. Responsible gun owners are
8 already safely storing their guns and their
9 firearms in their home.
10 And I vote in support of this bill.
11 Thank you.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
13 Skoufis to be recorded in the affirmative.
14 Senator Kavanagh to explain his
15 vote.
16 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Thank you,
17 Mr. President.
18 At this stage in the proceedings I
19 just rise to echo the many people who have
20 thanked the sponsor for all her work on this.
21 This is also a bill that has been worked on for a
22 number of years in the other house. I believe
23 they're debating it presently.
24 And bills like this, just a matter
25 of fact, as a matter of strong evidence, do save
1317
1 lives. One of the biggest threats we have in our
2 homes today is unsecured firearms. There are
3 many, many studies that demonstrate that
4 children, whatever you tell them, they will
5 access firearms if they have it available. They
6 will pick them up, they will handle them, and all
7 too frequently they will use them.
8 Moreover, as Senator Skoufis pointed
9 out, it is the recommendation of all the gun
10 organizations that claim to be responsible not
11 only to store your guns safely, but from a page
12 similar to the one my colleague was reading from,
13 they also recommend that you always keep the gun
14 unloaded until ready to use.
15 So again, this notion that it is
16 prudent or sensible, in a desire to protect your
17 homes -- to have a gun is protected by the Second
18 Amendment. The idea that it is prudent or
19 sensible to keep it loaded and unsecured is
20 simply false. You are creating much greater
21 dangers to your family by leaving a gun out of
22 your possession loaded and ready to use than you
23 are by the very short period that a responsible
24 gun owner might take to take a trigger lock off
25 and load a gun.
1318
1 For that reason, this bill is
2 extraordinarily important. It will save lives in
3 New York State. And I'm very proud that this
4 chamber is taking it up today. Thank you.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
6 Kavanagh to be recorded in the affirmative.
7 Senator Hoylman to explain his vote.
8 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Thank you,
9 Mr. President. I wanted to also thank the
10 sponsor.
11 And I guess my question would be,
12 why has it taken us so long to pass such a
13 commonsense gun safety bill, given the statistics
14 that the sponsor relayed to us.
15 Twenty thousand children in the
16 United States killed or seriously injured in
17 accidental shootings from 2005 to 2014, and yet
18 for years this bill languished in this house with
19 no action, no hearing, no vote.
20 Well, today we change that,
21 Mr. President. We're finally taking commonsense
22 steps, not just to protect New Yorkers but to
23 protect children. And that I think is our
24 foremost mission as representatives of
25 government.
1319
1 I vote in the affirmative. Thank
2 you.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
4 Hoylman to be recorded in the affirmative.
5 Senator Sanders to explain his vote.
6 SENATOR SANDERS: Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 I rise as a person who believes
9 strongly in the Second Amendment, that we
10 absolutely should have these things. But
11 however, somehow we've gotten a little lost in
12 this conversation where the people on the other
13 side of the argument believe that children should
14 be safe also.
15 Everyone is -- if we're arguing over
16 the words that this is saying, this bill is -- if
17 I understand it, is saying that make sure that
18 little kids or young children should not be able
19 to inappropriately put their hands on guns. I
20 believe that everybody in this place believes the
21 same thing. So we're obviously having an
22 argument over something that's not in these
23 words.
24 So I'm going to vote for this,
25 because these words make just common sense that
1320
1 everybody believes. Nobody is going to argue
2 2-year-olds and 3-year-olds and 5-year-olds
3 should have the right to take and grab daddy's
4 gun or whatever. Nobody's going to make that
5 argument. And that seems to me the essence of
6 what I'm reading here.
7 Since what's here is saying we
8 should -- the children should be safe, I'm voting
9 for it, and I thank the sponsor for doing that.
10 Thank you, Mr. President. I'm
11 voting for it.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
13 Sanders to be recorded in the affirmative.
14 Senator Carlucci to explain his
15 vote.
16 SENATOR CARLUCCI: Thank you,
17 Mr. President.
18 I too want to thank Senator Krueger
19 and all the legislators working on this important
20 legislation.
21 This is common sense, well overdue.
22 And I just want to thank everyone for voting in
23 favor of this legislation. We heard today one
24 tragic example after the other, one horrifying
25 statistic after the other. And while we can't
1321
1 turn back the hands of time, we can learn from
2 our mistakes, and that's what this legislation
3 does today. It corrects some of the things that
4 we should have been doing a long, long time ago.
5 And we know by the enactment of this
6 legislation we're going to put people in a much
7 safer position, we're going to be saving
8 thousands of children and people across this
9 state for years to come.
10 So I want to thank everyone for
11 supporting this legislation, and I will be voting
12 in the affirmative.
13 Thank you, Mr. President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
15 Carlucci to be recorded in the affirmative.
16 Announce the results.
17 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
18 Calendar Number 94, those Senators recorded in
19 the negative are Senators Akshar, Amedore,
20 Antonacci, Boyle, Flanagan, Funke, Gallivan,
21 Griffo, Jacobs, Jordan, Lanza, LaValle, Martinez,
22 Metzger, O'Mara, Ortt, Ranzenhofer, Ritchie,
23 Robach, Serino, Seward and Tedisco.
24 Absent from voting: Senator Young.
25 Ayes, 37. Nays, 22.
1322
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
2 bill is passed.
3 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
4 reading of the controversial calendar.
5 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
6 is there any further business at the desk?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: There
8 is no further business before the desk.
9 SENATOR GIANARIS: Well, then I
10 move to adjourn until tomorrow, Tuesday,
11 March 5th, at 3:00 p.m.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: On
13 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
14 Tuesday, March 5th, at 3:00 p.m.
15 (Whereupon, at 5:06 p.m., the Senate
16 adjourned.)
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