Regular Session - May 8, 2019

                                                                   3474

 1                NEW YORK STATE SENATE

 2                          

 3                          

 4               THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

 5                          

 6                          

 7                          

 8                          

 9                  ALBANY, NEW YORK

10                     May 8, 2019

11                     11:17 a.m.

12                          

13                          

14                   REGULAR SESSION

15  

16  

17  

18  SENATOR BRIAN A. BENJAMIN, Acting President

19  ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary

20  

21  

22  

23  

24  

25  


                                                               3475

 1                P R O C E E D I N G S

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 3   Senate will come to order.  

 4                I ask everyone present to please 

 5   rise and repeat with me the Pledge of Allegiance.

 6                (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 

 7   the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Rabbi 

 9   Yamin Levy, of Beth Hadassah Synagogue in 

10   Great Neck, will deliver today's invocation.  

11                Rabbi Levy?

12                RABBI LEVY:   Almighty God, eternal 

13   Father, we turn to Thee in humble prayer.  

14                We thank You for the freedoms we 

15   enjoy in this blessed country, the United States 

16   of America.  We pray for the esteemed public 

17   servants, the leaders of this state.  Bless them, 

18   protect them, and watch over their families, 

19   their staff, and all those who work in these 

20   hallowed halls.  

21                Grant them wisdom, and magnify their 

22   efforts as they seek to live up to the holy 

23   charge of their vocation.  Endow them with 

24   courage and determination to provide for the 

25   physical and spiritual well-being of the citizens 


                                                               3476

 1   of this great state.  

 2                Watch over the men and women who 

 3   choose to wear a uniform in order to protect our 

 4   streets, our communities, and our country.  Bless 

 5   them, their spouses, children and their loved 

 6   ones.  

 7                Master of the universe, on this, the 

 8   eve of Yom Ha'atzmaut, Israel Independence Day, 

 9   when this chamber will resolve to congratulate 

10   the State of Israel on the 71st anniversary of 

11   its independence, I pray that You watch over the 

12   State of Israel, her citizens, her visitors and 

13   her supporters.  

14                In her short history of 71 years, 

15   Israel has become a true beacon to the world, a 

16   light unto the nations.  Her economy has 

17   surpassed that of many industrial countries.  Her 

18   contributions to medicine, pharmaceuticals, high 

19   technology and agriculture have enhanced the 

20   lives of countless people around the world.  Her 

21   field hospital has saved countless victims from 

22   natural disasters.  Her cultural contributions in 

23   the arts, music, literature, theater and film are 

24   an inspiration.  Next week Israel will host the 

25   Eurovision Competition.  


                                                               3477

 1                Your servant King David 2900 years 

 2   ago declared that we shall pray for the peace of 

 3   Jerusalem, the eternal capital of Israel.  

 4                How blessed we are to be able to 

 5   state with absolute resolve and certainty that 

 6   America and Israel are forever united.  

 7                Amen.  

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 9   reading of the Journal.

10                THE SECRETARY:   In Senate, Tuesday, 

11   May 7, 2019, the Senate met pursuant to 

12   adjournment.  The Journal of Monday, May 6, 2019, 

13   was read and approved.  On motion, Senate 

14   adjourned.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Without 

16   objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

17                Presentation of petitions.

18                Messages from the Assembly.

19                The Secretary will read.

20                THE SECRETARY:   On page 14, 

21   Senator Sepúlveda moves to discharge, from the 

22   Committee of Crime Victims, Crime and Correction, 

23   Assembly Bill Number 2285 and substitute it for 

24   the identical Senate Bill 1850, Third Reading 

25   Calendar 25.


                                                               3478

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 2   substitution is so ordered.

 3                THE SECRETARY:   On page 28, Senator 

 4   Benjamin moves to discharge, from the Committee 

 5   on Investigations and Government Operations, 

 6   Assembly Bill Number 6865A and substitute it for 

 7   the identical Senate Bill 4688A, Third Reading 

 8   Calendar 413.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

10   substitution is so ordered.

11                THE SECRETARY:   On page 33, Senator 

12   Hoylman moves to discharge, from the Committee on 

13   Judiciary, Assembly Bill Number 5622 and 

14   substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 4236, 

15   Third Reading Calendar 495.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

17   substitution is so ordered.

18                THE SECRETARY:   On page 33, Senator 

19   Salazar moves to discharge, from the Committee on 

20   Education, Assembly Bill Number 6358 and 

21   substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 2890, 

22   Third Reading Calendar 496.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

24   substitution is so ordered.

25                THE SECRETARY:   On page 37, Senator 


                                                               3479

 1   Sanders moves to discharge, from the Committee on 

 2   Health, Assembly Bill Number 1078 and substitute 

 3   it for the identical Senate Bill 4582, Third 

 4   Reading Calendar 540.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 6   substitution is so ordered.

 7                Messages from the Governor.

 8                Reports of standing committees.

 9                Reports of select committees.

10                Communications and reports from 

11   state officers.

12                Motions and resolutions.

13                Senator Gianaris.

14                SENATOR GIANARIS:   On behalf of 

15   Senator Kaminsky, on page 16 I offer the 

16   following amendments to Calendar 147, Senate 

17   Print 89, and ask that said bill retain its place 

18   on Third Reading Calendar.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

20   amendments are received, and the bill shall 

21   retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

22                SENATOR GIANARIS:   On behalf of 

23   Senator Bailey, on page 17 I offer the following 

24   amendments to Calendar 156, Senate Print 2187, 

25   and ask that said bill retain its place on 


                                                               3480

 1   Third Reading Calendar.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 3   amendments are received, and the bill shall 

 4   retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

 5                SENATOR GIANARIS:   And on behalf of 

 6   Senator Parker, on page 15 I offer the following 

 7   amendments to Calendar 87, Senate Print 1414, and 

 8   ask that said bill retain its place on 

 9   Third Reading Calendar.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

11   amendments are received, and the bill shall 

12   retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

13                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Can we now take 

14   up previously adopted Resolution 1386, by 

15   Senator Kaminsky, read that resolution's title 

16   only, and recognize Senator Kaplan to speak on 

17   the resolution.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

19   Secretary will read.

20                THE SECRETARY:   Senate Resolution 

21   1386, by Senator Kaminsky, congratulating the 

22   State of Israel upon the occasion of the 

23   71st Anniversary of its independence and 

24   reaffirming the bonds of friendship and 

25   cooperation between the State of New York and 


                                                               3481

 1   Israel.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 3   Kaplan on the resolution.

 4                SENATOR KAPLAN:   Thank you, 

 5   Mr. President.

 6                I rise today to speak out strongly 

 7   in support of this resolution, which 

 8   congratulates the State of Israel on the 

 9   71st anniversary of its independence and 

10   reaffirms the bonds of friendship and cooperation 

11   between the State of New York and Israel.

12                Strong support for Israel is an 

13   issue that is deeply personal to me.  As many of 

14   you know, I came to this country as a refugee 

15   when I was 13 years old.  My parents weren't able 

16   to come with me.  And by the time they were able 

17   to flee Iran, nations around the world had turned 

18   their backs on Jewish refugees like us.  

19                As one nation after another denied 

20   them entry, Israel was the only place that would 

21   allow them to seek refuge.  And they opened their 

22   arms to my parents, giving them a place to call 

23   home until they were finally able to reunite with 

24   me and my siblings in this country.

25                Their story is not unique.  Israel 


                                                               3482

 1   has been a beacon for Jewish people around the 

 2   world since its inception.  And as Israel faces 

 3   new challenges and persecutions on a daily basis, 

 4   it has never been more important for us all to 

 5   stand up and speak out in the strongest of terms 

 6   in support of Israel.  We simply cannot stand by 

 7   and ignore injustices against our Israeli friends 

 8   and allies.  

 9                I thank my colleagues for their 

10   support of this resolution.  And I would also 

11   like to thank our Governor, Andrew Cuomo, for 

12   always being a leading voice in support of 

13   Israel.

14                This issue isn't a partisan one.  We 

15   must do everything we can to overcome hate and 

16   heal the division in this country and around the 

17   world.  It's a common purpose around which we can 

18   all unite.  

19                Thank you, Mr. President.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

21   Kaminsky on the resolution.

22                SENATOR KAMINSKY:   Thank you, 

23   Mr. President.

24                I am proud to stand up today as a 

25   New Yorker and affirm our bonds with the State of 


                                                               3483

 1   Israel.  We just finished -- or Israel just 

 2   finished celebrating Yom Hazikaron, which -- 

 3   "celebrate" may not be the most accurate word to 

 4   use, because it is their Day of Remembrance.  

 5   Israel does the equivalent of what we would do 

 6   had we had Memorial Day and July 4th one day and 

 7   then the next day.  

 8                And it goes together, celebrating 

 9   those who gave their lives for the birth and the 

10   continued freedom of Israel and then the next day 

11   celebrating that independence.  I've been there 

12   in Yom Hazikaron when a siren sounds, blaring 

13   throughout every town and every city, and people 

14   stop wherever they are, even driving in the 

15   middle of the road, stop dead and take a moment 

16   to remember those who gave their lives for the 

17   State of Israel and pause about what it means.

18                And I've gotten to be there on the 

19   next day, the day we're celebrating here today, 

20   Yom Ha'atzmaut, which is their independence 

21   celebration.  It is a wonderful celebration where 

22   people get to come together and celebrate just 

23   the miracle of what is Israel.  

24                Seventy-two years ago, when you 

25   looked at that piece of land, for a number of 


                                                               3484

 1   reasons what we have today would have seemed 

 2   impossible.  First, politically it would have 

 3   seemed impossible.  The moment Israel's 

 4   independence was declared from the 

 5   United Nations, it was attacked literally on all 

 6   sides.  It was said that Israel would be driven 

 7   into the sea.  And yet against all odds, it 

 8   persisted.  

 9                But also when you looked at what the 

10   land looked like now and today, Israel has used 

11   every possible means to convert it into an 

12   economic engine and a place where there's so much 

13   amazing technology, agriculture, arts and culture 

14   thriving there.  It's just a great place.  

15                And of course in that part of the 

16   world, for a long time it was the only democracy, 

17   and America's friend and New York's friend 

18   continuing right up until today.

19                So today we reaffirm our vows with 

20   the State of Israel.  Having a free, strong 

21   Israel has always mattered to us, and it always 

22   hopefully will.  And we stand by Israel and 

23   celebrate her 71st anniversary today.  

24                Thank you, Mr. President.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 


                                                               3485

 1   Krueger on the resolution.

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you, 

 3   Mr. President.  I also rise in honor of the 

 4   resolution for Israel's 71st birthday.  

 5                Yes, it's a country, but for me it's 

 6   always been very personal in relation to my 

 7   family.  My father made his first visit to Israel 

 8   in 1961, and he kept going back.  And we stopped 

 9   counting after his 400th visit, because it was 

10   just getting silly.  And in good times and times 

11   of crisis, we always knew if we weren't sure 

12   where our father was, or our husband -- my mother 

13   wasn't sure where he was, she would just call the 

14   two major hotels in Israel and say, "Have you 

15   seen Harvey?"  And they'd go, "We'll find him for 

16   you."  Because that was the kind of country it 

17   was.  

18                And my father, who's now deceased, 

19   also always had his eyes open wide about his love 

20   for this country but his understanding between 

21   the aspirations and goals of Israel and the 

22   complexities of it as a country and its 

23   governments.  

24                And I think that Israel and the U.S. 

25   both find itself in exactly the same position 


                                                               3486

 1   today.  One can love a country, love the goals 

 2   and aspirations, and still have serious issues 

 3   with different government policies.  And I think 

 4   this country, both the Jewish community and the 

 5   non-Jewish community, are facing those issues 

 6   with Israel.  

 7                I know my dear friends in Israel, 

 8   many of whom are like family -- because guess 

 9   what, we would go back and forth to Israel 

10   during -- starting -- I think my first visit was 

11   when I was 8 years old.  I never hit the 400 mark 

12   like my father.  But even today, talking to our 

13   friends now of four generations in Israel about 

14   the realities in their own country and its place 

15   in the world, to understand that like the U.S., 

16   it's complex, it has enormous responsibilities to 

17   its own people and to the people of the world, 

18   but goals and aspirations are not always today's 

19   reality.  

20                And so when people say can you be 

21   comfortable being a progressive Jew and a Zionist 

22   in America today, I say yes, sir, absolutely I 

23   can.  And so I'm very proud to stand up in 

24   recognition of the 71st birthday of Israel.  

25                I know when the United States of 


                                                               3487

 1   America was only 71 years old, we were dealing 

 2   with lots of complexities for ourself also.  We 

 3   ended up with civil war in this country, let's 

 4   not forget that.

 5                So it's hard to keep a democracy 

 6   going.  It needs all the help and support it can 

 7   have.  And so I'm very glad that this resolution 

 8   was brought here for us today.

 9                Thank you, Mr. President.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

11   Boyle on the resolution.

12                SENATOR BOYLE:   Thank you, 

13   Mr. President.  

14                In support of the resolution, I'd 

15   like to congratulate Senator Kaminsky for 

16   bringing this to the floor, commemorating the 

17   71st anniversary of the State of Israel and the 

18   special bond between the State of New York and 

19   the State of Israel.

20                As was mentioned, the State of 

21   Israel has suffered attacks from its very 

22   beginning, from its neighbors, from terrorist 

23   organizations and individuals, and yet they 

24   continue to thrive and survive.

25                As the Rabbi said, the State of 


                                                               3488

 1   Israel truly is a beacon.  We need to celebrate 

 2   that as New Yorkers.  

 3                And it's not just hostile action 

 4   against the State of Israel, it's also economic.  

 5   I'm happy to see the resolution mentions economic 

 6   boycotts.  We all know about the Boycott, 

 7   Divestment and Sanctions movement, the so-called 

 8   BDS movement.  I think right here today we are in 

 9   solidarity against these actions against the 

10   State of Israel.  

11                It's a very difficult situation in 

12   terms of the economic stability of the State of 

13   Israel.  But they are going to continue because 

14   of the ingenuity that we've seen over the last 

15   few decades.  The State of Israel has more 

16   start-up companies than any country on earth, per 

17   capita.  And that just speaks to where they are 

18   and where they're going.  

19                I strongly support this resolution.  

20   I particularly like the fact that in the Knesset 

21   they don't wear ties.  I speak in favor.

22                (Laughter.)

23                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

24   Ranzenhofer on the resolution.

25                SENATOR RANZENHOFER:   Thank you, 


                                                               3489

 1   Mr. President.  

 2                I'd like to join with my colleagues 

 3   Senators Kaplan, Kaminsky, Krueger and Boyle in 

 4   congratulating the State of Israel on its 

 5   71st birthday, its 71st anniversary of its 

 6   independence.

 7                And I think it is very appropriate 

 8   today that we had the Rabbi lead us in prayer and 

 9   point out some of those positive aspects of what 

10   is happening.  The relationship between the 

11   United States and Israel is very strong.  The 

12   relationship between Israel and New York State is 

13   very strong.  It always has been, and it needs to 

14   continue to be that way.

15                There are two particular parts of 

16   the resolution which I just want to highlight 

17   which are I think very poignant and worth 

18   pointing out.  And I want to thank and 

19   congratulate Senator Kaminsky for bringing the 

20   resolution to the floor.

21                But there's one of the clauses which 

22   talks about -- and this is very important even 

23   today -- that since its inception, when the 

24   combined forces of five Arab nations invaded to 

25   destroy the dream of the Jewish people, Israel 


                                                               3490

 1   continues to face the hostility and, frequently 

 2   through the years of its statehood, armed 

 3   aggression of its neighbors.  

 4                And the reason I point that out is 

 5   because even today as we sit here in this 

 6   chamber, we read articles and we see things on 

 7   the news that Israel, as we speak, this week is 

 8   still under attack as it celebrates its 

 9   71st anniversary.

10                The second point that I wanted to 

11   point out, which again also is very appropriate 

12   here, is a paragraph a few paragraphs below when 

13   it says that Israel in its 71 years of statehood 

14   has established a modern parliamentary democracy 

15   and has become the most successful democracy in 

16   the Middle East, and it's provided its citizens 

17   with the highest standards of living and human 

18   equality in a region otherwise beset with poverty 

19   and human rights abuses.

20                And the reason why that's so 

21   important is that as antisemitism continues to 

22   rise and we continue to read about that, as 

23   people across the United States and elected 

24   officials say hurtful and harmful things and 

25   condemn Israel, it's important that we as a 


                                                               3491

 1   Legislature here in the State of New York stand 

 2   up and speak out and say that is wrong.  That is 

 3   wrong.  We stand united with Israel as a country, 

 4   we stand united as a state.  

 5                And I think that's even more 

 6   important today as we look around and see around 

 7   what's happening in the world and specifically 

 8   what's happening in Israel, that we talk about 

 9   this resolution here today on the floor.  And 

10   again, I thank my colleagues who have already 

11   spoken on it and the Senate sponsor for 

12   introducing the resolution.

13                Thank you, Mr. President.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

15   Robach on the resolution.

16                SENATOR ROBACH:   Yes, very briefly, 

17   Mr. President, let me rise to support this also.  

18                I'm glad we're doing it.  First and 

19   foremost, I think it's important to always 

20   celebrate anybody's independence.  But Israel is 

21   even a little bit special, because like us 

22   they're a democracy, they've been a long-time 

23   ally of the United States, and vice versa, and 

24   that has done good things.  

25                As we talk in this chamber about 


                                                               3492

 1   fairness, equity, I am certainly happy to cast my 

 2   vote with all democracies anywhere in the world 

 3   and think that suits people much better than 

 4   other forms of government, though people have the 

 5   right to do that.  Israel is a strong democracy 

 6   surrounded by places that aren't.  

 7                And I would go to the Rabbi's 

 8   message, if you haven't gone there -- I've gone 

 9   several times.  It is amazing when you go there, 

10   even to fly in -- surrounded by desert, but you 

11   land in lush green development activity.  As a 

12   matter of fact, the United States, which leads 

13   the world in patents, with 327 million people, is 

14   only followed by Israel, who has 5 million 

15   people, a million of which are Druze Arabs.  

16                So they're a remarkable country, a 

17   remarkable ally.  All those things that were 

18   stated earlier, what they've contributed to the 

19   world that everybody benefits, is so, so true.  

20                And so it is fitting that we 

21   celebrate that not only in word here today, but 

22   also support them as they struggle.  And the word 

23   is struggle.  If you've been to Jerusalem, to 

24   walk down Ben Yehuda Way and see placards to 

25   people who have lost their lives to domestic 


                                                               3493

 1   terrorism is shocking.  It's sad.  It's something 

 2   that we -- I don't know if we would have the 

 3   strength and fortitude to persevere.  But Israel 

 4   has.  

 5                They're a strong country, a strong 

 6   ally, and I'm glad to hear we're all here today 

 7   supporting their independence and continued 

 8   friendship and democracy along with the U.S. 

 9                Thank you, Mr. President.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

11   Stavisky on the resolution.  

12                SENATOR STAVISKY:   Thank you, 

13   Mr. President.  

14                And I thank my colleagues for their 

15   comments and the Senators for introducing this.  

16                Let me add a couple of other points 

17   that have not been brought out.  And I think it 

18   was done very eloquently by my colleagues.  But 

19   even today we face some of these issues here in 

20   the United States where we have swastikas on 

21   schoolyards in my Senate district and we have 

22   shootings in synagogues.  So we have to remember 

23   that eternal vigilance is what we should be 

24   seeking.  That these incidents have not stopped, 

25   and they do continue.  


                                                               3494

 1                And secondly, we have that insidious 

 2   BDS movement, the Boycott Israel movement today, 

 3   which we have to resist without question.  

 4                And lastly, I have visited Israel on 

 5   quite a number of occasions, but particularly for 

 6   my 25th wedding anniversary, my husband and I 

 7   decided, forget the party -- he had never been to 

 8   Israel.  I was there before we were married.  And 

 9   we drove.  And this was an opportunity for 

10   Leonard to meet his uncle, whom he had never met.  

11   The family came to the United States from Poland 

12   in the 1920s, and the youngest brother went to 

13   Palestine and raised his entire family there.  

14   They have come to the United States.  But my 

15   husband had never met his uncle.  And there were 

16   tears in his uncle's eyes to meet his American 

17   nephew for the first time.

18                And that's what Israel symbolizes to 

19   people all over the world.  It's a homeland, it's 

20   a place of refuge.  And it's a country that is 

21   celebrating its anniversary, and let us hope for 

22   many years to come.

23                Thank you, Mr. President.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

25   Hoylman on the resolution.


                                                               3495

 1                SENATOR HOYLMAN:   Thank you, 

 2   Mr. President.  I wanted to thank Senator 

 3   Kaminsky and Senator Kaplan for this resolution.

 4                My family went to Israel this summer 

 5   to take our two daughters there to see their 

 6   extended cousins, and we had a wonderful time.

 7                As we were touching down on the 

 8   airport, we got word, though, that the Knesset 

 9   had just passed a law that would ban gay couples 

10   from pursuing gestational surrogacy.  And my 

11   husband looked to me as we saw the news, and he 

12   was like, "Well, that's a real welcome message." 

13   And I said to him, "You know what, gestational 

14   surrogacy is illegal in New York State too."

15                So my message is before we criticize 

16   Israel, we should look in the mirror and look at 

17   our own policies and how we treat others, and how 

18   we need to strengthen our civil rights in the 

19   United States and how we need to fight 

20   antisemitism in the United States and make sure 

21   that all cultures, all races, all religions are 

22   respected.  

23                So I commend Israel on its 

24   71st birthday.  

25                Thank you, Mr. President.


                                                               3496

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 2   Liu on the resolution.

 3                SENATOR LIU:   Thank you, 

 4   Mr. President.

 5                I am grateful to Senators Kaminsky 

 6   and Kaplan for their resolution celebrating 

 7   Israel's birthday.  

 8                Israel is our ally.  Israel is a 

 9   democracy.  Israel is a freedom-loving state of 

10   people who have endured great hardships.  And 

11   even in our state, even in my district, there 

12   continues to be some symbols and unfortunately  

13   sometimes the rearing of antisemitism.  We need 

14   to fight that with all our means.  

15                And I'm also grateful to the State 

16   of Israel for the simple fact that the first time 

17   I was there, I was there with my wife and, you 

18   know, we were on this trip that we had -- where 

19   we had a surprise guest.  Dr. Ruth joined us for 

20   a few days on the bus.  And, you know, would you 

21   believe, 10 months later we had a baby boy.  

22                Thank you.  

23                (Laughter.)

24                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

25   resolution was previously adopted on May 7th.


                                                               3497

 1                Senator Gianaris.

 2                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Can we now move 

 3   to previously adopted Resolution 309, by Senator 

 4   Griffo, read its title only, and recognize 

 5   Senator Griffo.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 7   Secretary will read.

 8                THE SECRETARY:   Senate Resolution 

 9   309, by Senator Griffo, memorializing Governor 

10   Andrew M. Cuomo to proclaim May 2019 as Lupus 

11   Awareness Month in the State of New York.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

13   Griffo on the resolution.

14                SENATOR GRIFFO:   Thank you, 

15   Mr. President.

16                Today we have the pleasure of being 

17   joined by a number of the lupus agencies 

18   throughout the State of New York.  

19                Over the years, we have presented 

20   this resolution to try to continue to create 

21   awareness about lupus, which is a complex 

22   autoimmune disease that causes inflammation and 

23   tissue damage to organs throughout the body.

24                Most commonly, statistically, we 

25   look at more than 5 million people worldwide that 


                                                               3498

 1   are affected by this disease.  Over 1.5 million 

 2   Americans inflicted by this disease.  And here in 

 3   New York alone, over 105,000 suffer today from 

 4   lupus.

 5                So what we are trying to do here by 

 6   proclaiming May as Lupus Awareness Month is to 

 7   continue to draw attention, the necessary 

 8   attention to this particular disease, to generate 

 9   more public awareness, to generate more support 

10   to the crucial research that is being done to 

11   deal with this illness, and to continue to put 

12   the resources necessary together to help us one 

13   day find a cure for this disease.

14                So to have the support in this 

15   chamber regularly, to have some who are with us 

16   in the audience today -- and I know -- I think 

17   Kathleen Arntsen is up there, along with the 

18   Lupus Agencies of New York, the Lupus and Allied 

19   Diseases Association, the Lupus Alliance of 

20   Long Island-Queens, the Lupus Alliance of Upstate 

21   New York, the Lupus Foundation of America, and 

22   the Lupus Research Alliance.  

23                They're all here today, and we 

24   appreciate their continued advocacy and their 

25   presence here in the State Capitol.  


                                                               3499

 1                So I'm hopeful that as a result of 

 2   our continuing to pass this resolution that one 

 3   day we will be able to find effective treatments 

 4   and cures for this debilitating disease.  

 5                So, Mr. President, thank you for the 

 6   opportunity, and I ask that you recognize and 

 7   acknowledge our guests.  

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   To our 

 9   guests from the Lupus Agencies of New York, I 

10   welcome you on behalf of the Senate.  We extend 

11   all of the privileges and courtesies of this 

12   house.  Please rise and be recognized.

13                (Applause.)

14                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

15   resolution was previously adopted on 

16   January 29th.

17                Senator Gianaris.

18                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

19   can we please open both of the resolutions we 

20   took up today for cosponsorship.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

22   resolutions are open for cosponsorship.  Should 

23   you choose not to be a cosponsor of the 

24   resolutions, please notify the desk.

25                Senator Gianaris.


                                                               3500

 1                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Please take up 

 2   the reading of the calendar at this time.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 4   Secretary will read.

 5                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 25, 

 6   Assembly Print 2285, substituted earlier by 

 7   Assemblymember Rozic, an act to amend the 

 8   Correction Law.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

10   the last section.

11                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

12   act shall take effect immediately.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

14   the roll.

15                (The Secretary called the roll.)

16                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

17   Announce the results.

18                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

19   Calendar Number 25, those Senators voting in the 

20   negative are Senators Akshar, Antonacci, Helming 

21   and Ranzenhofer.

22                Ayes, 55.  Nays, 4.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

24   bill is passed.

25                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 


                                                               3501

 1   319, Senate Print 1110, by Senator Kennedy, an 

 2   act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

 4   the last section.

 5                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 6   act shall take effect immediately.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

 8   the roll.

 9                (The Secretary called the roll.)

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

11   Announce the results.

12                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 59.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

14   bill is passed.

15                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

16   394, Senate Print 4572, by Senator Kaminsky, an 

17   act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

18                SENATOR GRIFFO:   Lay it aside.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Please 

20   lay it aside.

21                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

22   413, Assembly Print 6865A, substituted earlier by 

23   Assemblymember Dickens, an act authorizing the 

24   commissioner of general services to transfer and 

25   convey certain lands in the County of New York.


                                                               3502

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

 2   the last section.

 3                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 4   act shall take effect immediately.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

 6   the roll.

 7                (The Secretary called the roll.)

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

 9   Announce the results.

10                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 59.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

12   bill is passed.

13                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

14   468, Senate Print 2719, by Senator Krueger, an 

15   act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

17   the last section.

18                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

19   act shall take effect on the 120th day after it 

20   shall have become a law.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

22   the roll.

23                (The Secretary called the roll.)

24                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

25   Announce the results.


                                                               3503

 1                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 2   Calendar Number 468, those Senators voting in the 

 3   negative are Senators Amedore, Gallivan, Griffo, 

 4   Helming, Jacobs, Ortt and Ranzenhofer.

 5                Ayes, 52.  Nays, 7.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 7   bill is passed.

 8                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 9   476, Senate Print 3809, by Senator Stavisky, an 

10   act to amend Chapter 537 of the Laws of 2008.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

12   the last section.

13                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

14   act shall take effect immediately.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

16   the roll.

17                (The Secretary called the roll.)

18                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

19   Announce the results.

20                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

22   bill is passed.

23                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

24   479, Senate Print 5093, by Senator Stavisky, an 

25   act to amend the Education Law.


                                                               3504

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

 2   the last section.

 3                THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

 4   act shall take effect immediately.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

 6   the roll.

 7                (The Secretary called the roll.)

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

 9   Announce the results.

10                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

12   bill is passed.

13                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

14   495, Assembly Print 5622, substituted earlier by 

15   Assemblymember Weinstein, an act to amend the 

16   Debtor and Creditor Law.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

18   the last section.

19                THE SECRETARY:   Section 7.  This 

20   act shall take effect 120 days after it shall 

21   have become a law.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

23   the roll.

24                (The Secretary called the roll.)

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    


                                                               3505

 1   Announce the results.

 2                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 3   Calendar Number 495, Senator Helming voting in 

 4   the negative.  

 5                Ayes, 60.  Nays, 1.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 7   bill is passed.

 8                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 9   496, Assembly Print 6358, substituted earlier by 

10   Assemblymember Cruz, an act to amend Chapter 670 

11   of the Laws of 2007.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

13   the last section.

14                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

15   act shall take effect immediately.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

17   the roll.

18                (The Secretary called the roll.)

19                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

20   Announce the results.

21                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

22   Calendar Number 496, Senator Helming voting in 

23   the negative.  

24                Ayes, 60.  Nays, 1.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 


                                                               3506

 1   bill is passed.

 2                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 3   519, Senate Print 4976, by Senator Kennedy, an 

 4   act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

 6   the last section.

 7                THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

 8   act shall take effect on the 180th day after it 

 9   shall have become a law.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

11   the roll.

12                (The Secretary called the roll.)

13                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

14   Announce the results.

15                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

17   bill is passed.

18                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

19   520, Senate Print 5072A, by Senator Hoylman, an 

20   act to amend the Tax Law.

21                SENATOR GRIFFO:   Lay it aside.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Lay it 

23   aside.

24                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

25   534, Senate Print 1811, by Senator Rivera, an act 


                                                               3507

 1   to amend the Public Health Law.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

 3   the last section.

 4                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 5   act shall take effect on January 1, 2020.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

 7   the roll.

 8                (The Secretary called the roll.)

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

10   Announce the results.

11                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

13   bill is passed.

14                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

15   540, Assembly Print 1078, substituted earlier by 

16   Assemblymember Gottfried, an act to amend the 

17   Public Health Law.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

19   the last section.

20                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

21   act shall take effect immediately.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

23   the roll.

24                (The Secretary called the roll.)

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    


                                                               3508

 1   Announce the results.

 2                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 4   bill is passed.

 5                Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

 6   reading of today's calendar.

 7                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Let's please 

 8   move to the reading of the controversial 

 9   calendar.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

11   Secretary will ring the bell.

12                The Secretary will read.

13                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

14   394, Senate Print 4572, by Senator Kaminsky, an 

15   act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

17   Lanza.

18                SENATOR LANZA:   Thank you, 

19   Mr. President.  On the bill.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

21   Lanza on the bill.

22                SENATOR LANZA:   You know, more than 

23   200 years ago tyrants were defeated, banished, 

24   pushed back across the ocean from whence they 

25   came.  And the people right here on these shores 


                                                               3509

 1   dedicated themselves to the proposition that 

 2   tyranny would never again reign on this land.  

 3   And to accomplish that goal, they wrote what I 

 4   believe to be the greatest governance document in 

 5   the history of the world.  We know it as the 

 6   United States Constitution.  

 7                When that document was ratified, the 

 8   world witnessed the greatest transfer of power in 

 9   the history of humankind.  It is that document 

10   that said:  Here, power is not with the 

11   government, it is with the people.  

12                In order to make sure that that is 

13   the truth and that people can and will live in 

14   freedom here, there are a number of provisions 

15   which are written in that Constitution.  And they 

16   were based on a great in-depth and truly 

17   enlightened review of the history of tyranny 

18   throughout the world.  And what the founders 

19   determined and realized was that the greatest 

20   threat to human liberty and freedom does not come 

21   from your neighbor, it comes from consolidated 

22   power in government -- the king, the queen, the 

23   pharaoh, the dictator, the tyrant.

24                So how do you protect against that 

25   type of tyranny?  You understand how government 


                                                               3510

 1   uses its power to oppress the governed.  Most of 

 2   the provisions to protect against tyranny in the 

 3   Constitution are found in the Bill of Rights, but 

 4   they are also found elsewhere.  Things known as 

 5   double jeopardy, ex post facto laws, bills of 

 6   attainder.  

 7                I know today, given the fact that 

 8   we've abandoned even trying to teach civil 

 9   governance in schools, I know today it's not a 

10   priority to teach young people about the very way 

11   of life we enjoy, called the American way.  And 

12   how it is that we enjoy this life.  So let me 

13   explain to people back home what some of those 

14   terms mean.

15                Double jeopardy means that a person 

16   in our country cannot be twice put in jeopardy.  

17   In simpler terms, you can't prosecute a person 

18   twice or three times or four times for the same 

19   offense.  Why is that in the Constitution?  You 

20   would think, if someone did something, we ought 

21   to keep going until we get them.  Well, the 

22   founders knew something.  They knew that when 

23   government wants to oppress, when it wants to 

24   deprive you of your liberty, it will do whatever 

25   it takes to put you in jail.  And so when you're 


                                                               3511

 1   found innocent, they'll come at you again.  When 

 2   you're found innocent again, they'll come at you 

 3   one more time.  And they won't stop until you're 

 4   in jail and deprived of your liberty.

 5                That's not theoretical or academic.  

 6   That's what happened for eons throughout the 

 7   world, and right on this land.

 8                Ex post facto.  What does that mean?  

 9   Sadly, most kids in school don't know what it 

10   means, and they ought to, they should, because it 

11   is the very shield that protects them against 

12   tyranny.  It means that in this land we don't 

13   criminalize activity or conduct that was legal 

14   when it was performed.  

15                Put in other words, we're not going 

16   make it a crime to do what you did yesterday when 

17   it was legal to do it.  Why is that in our 

18   Constitution, Article I, Section 9?  Because the 

19   founders knew that when the government wants to 

20   take your freedom, this is what they do.  They 

21   say, I don't like you.  You're a Democrat.  

22   You're a Republican.  You're this ethnicity.  You 

23   don't agree with my politics.  I really don't 

24   have any legitimate claim against you, so I'm 

25   just going to say what you did yesterday is now a 


                                                               3512

 1   crime.  

 2                That's a protection against tyranny 

 3   in government, and it's important that we have 

 4   it.  Same area of the Constitution, Article I, 

 5   Section 9, bills of attainder.  I doubt anyone in 

 6   this room -- I shouldn't say that.  We have a 

 7   bunch of lawyers -- I'm looking at Senator 

 8   Breslin -- and even nonlawyers, I'm sure.  But 

 9   very few, I would imagine, throughout the state 

10   even know the definition of bills of attainder.  

11   And that's okay.  As long as they've lived under 

12   the blanket of that protection, it's all right.  

13                But I guess these days they 

14   ought to know about these things lest they lose 

15   them.  A bill of attainder -- listen to this 

16   definition and see if it rings true or sounds 

17   familiar to you today in our society in the halls 

18   of government.  Does this sound familiar?  Bill 

19   of attainder, a legislative act that singles out 

20   an individual or group and declares them guilty 

21   of some crime without a trial.  

22                It sounds familiar to me.  I see it 

23   playing out on the news every day.  

24                Why is that important?  Why do we 

25   need that protection?  Again, because it shields 


                                                               3513

 1   us from consolidated power that has always 

 2   corrupted on every land on this earth, except 

 3   here, where the hope that it would not -- this is 

 4   how government deprives you of liberty.

 5                It says you're a threat to us.  

 6   You're like Lanza, you talk too much.  I don't 

 7   like what you believe.  I don't like what you 

 8   say.  I don't like what you look like.  I don't 

 9   like how you pray.  I don't like how you don't 

10   pray.  I don't want to go through the trouble of 

11   actually proving that you've done something 

12   wrong; your existence is wrong enough to me.  I'm 

13   in power.  I'm the government.  I'm just going to 

14   pass a law that says you go to jail, don't pass 

15   go.

16                 These are the very things that 

17   distinguish what we are, what America is, the 

18   land of the free.  And because we don't happen to 

19   like a certain person that serves in a certain 

20   office today, we're going to throw it out the 

21   window.  We're going to be blinded by our hatred, 

22   blinded by political -- by political 

23   considerations.  And we're going to throw not 

24   only the baby out with the bathwater, we're going 

25   to throw freedom into the garbage heap.  We're 


                                                               3514

 1   going to allow tyranny to once again get a 

 2   foothold on these shores.  We're going to open 

 3   the door to the idea that government is in 

 4   control, that government has the power, that your 

 5   rights and your freedoms are subservient to the 

 6   whims of tyranny.  

 7                Hate who you like.  Please don't 

 8   hate freedom.  Say what you want.  But please, 

 9   please don't attack the foundation of the 

10   greatest country the world has ever known 

11   established on the bedrock of freedom and 

12   liberty.  Please allow my children to grow up in 

13   a place that protects them against government 

14   oppression.  That's why these clauses are in the 

15   Constitution.

16                And that's why we here in the State 

17   Legislature should leave them there and say what 

18   we want, have our political discourse, vote the 

19   way we want, but leave the Constitution alone.  

20   Please, for God's sake, leave the Constitution 

21   alone.

22                I know some find it funny.  It's 

23   not.  It's sad.  It's sad that in our zeal 

24   because of our hatred for some, we're willing to 

25   open the door to tyranny and oppression --


                                                               3515

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 2   Gianaris.  

 3                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Will Senator 

 4   Lanza yield for a question?  

 5                SENATOR LANZA:   Absolutely, Senator 

 6   Gianaris.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 8   Senator yields.

 9                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you.  

10                My question, Senator Lanza, is what 

11   any of these comments have to do with the bill 

12   that's before this house.

13                SENATOR LANZA:   What -- would the 

14   sponsor yield?  

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   He 

16   asked you a question.

17                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Actually, you 

18   have the floor. 

19                SENATOR LANZA:   I'd like to -- I'm 

20   going to answer with a question.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Okay.  

22                (Laughter.)

23                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I believe 

24   Senator Lanza has the floor.  He can answer the 

25   question.


                                                               3516

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   He 

 2   would like to ask you a question, Senator 

 3   Gianaris.  To answer your question, he wants to 

 4   ask you a question.

 5                SENATOR LANZA:   I'll answer the 

 6   question.  

 7                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Sure.

 8                SENATOR LANZA:   Through you, 

 9   Mr. President, it has everything -- it has 

10   everything to do with this legislation.  

11                Now, Mr. President, would Senator 

12   Gianaris yield?  

13                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

14   Gianaris, would you yield for a question?

15                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I'm sorry, I 

16   didn't hear his answer.

17                SENATOR LANZA:   It has everything 

18   to do with this legislation.

19                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Okay.  Would 

20   Senator Lanza continue to yield?  

21                SENATOR LANZA:   I asked Senator 

22   Gianaris to yield first.

23                SENATOR GRIFFO:   Point of order 

24   here, Mr. President.  Senator Lanza has the 

25   floor.  It's within his prerogative whether to 


                                                               3517

 1   yield or not.  He has answered the question.  You 

 2   asked him to further yield.  He has asked whether 

 3   you would yield for a question.  

 4                Would you yield to his question?  He 

 5   has the floor.

 6                SENATOR GIANARIS:   First of all, 

 7   you're no longer the presiding officer, Senator 

 8   Griffo.  

 9                SENATOR GRIFFO:   Well, apparently, 

10   Senator Gianaris, the presiding officer 

11   determines germaneness, not you.  You're not in a 

12   position to determine what is germane or not.

13                SENATOR GIANARIS:   No one's --

14                SENATOR GRIFFO:   This bill is on 

15   the Constitution.  You're raising whether or 

16   not --

17                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

18   Griffo --

19                SENATOR GRIFFO:   -- Senator Lanza 

20   is raising legitimate remarks --

21                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President --

22                SENATOR GRIFFO:   -- on a specific 

23   bill that is before the house that deals with 

24   constitutional issues.

25                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President.


                                                               3518

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 2   Griffo, please.

 3                Senator Gianaris.  

 4                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I'll remind 

 5   Senator Griffo that we should all be addressing 

 6   the presiding officer, not each other.  

 7                No one is speaking about 

 8   germaneness.  I merely asked a question of 

 9   Senator Lanza --

10                SENATOR LANZA:   I answered the 

11   question.  I'll answer it again, Mr. President, 

12   through you, if you'd like.

13                SENATOR GIANARIS:   If he wishes to 

14   no longer yield, that's his prerogative. 

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Do you 

16   yield to a question from Senator Gianaris?    

17                Senator Gianaris has asked a 

18   question.  Will you yield?

19                SENATOR LANZA:   Yes, absolutely.  

20   Completely willing to yield.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

22   Lanza yields.

23                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you, 

24   Senator Lanza.  

25                I'm merely trying to understand, 


                                                               3519

 1   because you have given a very thorough recitation 

 2   of a number of constitutional clauses, which we 

 3   all respect.  But I've heard you say things about 

 4   the double jeopardy clause and how once someone 

 5   is judged to be not guilty, that then they 

 6   shouldn't be re-prosecuted.  This bill has 

 7   nothing to do with that.  And so I'm trying to 

 8   understand the relevance of your comments, 

 9   because this bill only applies when there was a 

10   pardon, not a trial that then found somebody not 

11   guilty after due process.  

12                And so I'm just having trouble 

13   understanding how your comments relate to the 

14   bill that's before the house.  That was my 

15   question.

16                SENATOR LANZA:   Through you, 

17   Mr. President, we probably had different 

18   constitutional law professors in law school.  

19                So it's not just about trial double 

20   jeopardy.  As you ought to know, it's about a 

21   prohibition twice putting a person in jeopardy.  

22   Jeopardy sometimes relating to trial, sometimes 

23   not.  But the operative and constitutional 

24   provision protects against U.S. citizens being 

25   twice placed in jeopardy.


                                                               3520

 1                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you.

 2                I appreciate the clarification, 

 3   because Senator Lanza's earlier comments spoke 

 4   about double jeopardy in the context of someone 

 5   being adjudged not guilty, and I just wanted to 

 6   be clear that this bill does not pertain to that 

 7   example.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 9   Lanza, you have the floor.

10                SENATOR LANZA:   May I continue?  

11                So of course it does.  You know 

12   another thing that a government full of itself 

13   does?  When they try to erode your freedom, they 

14   don't want you to hear about it.  And they don't 

15   like anyone else to talk about it.  And they want 

16   to silence anyone who gets up and defends your 

17   freedom.  

18                And they say, Senator Lanza, why are 

19   you talking about this?  Hush up.  Be quiet.  We 

20   know what we're doing, we're big government.  Sit 

21   down and shut up.  Yield.  

22                I'll yield all day long to questions 

23   about defense of the Constitution of the United 

24   States and the freedom that it provides for the 

25   people of this country.  And that is what this 


                                                               3521

 1   legislation is about, Mr. President.

 2                I know it's aimed at a single 

 3   person.  But, you know, you may be aiming for the 

 4   president, but there's going to be a lot of 

 5   collateral damage.  Today it's the president; 

 6   tomorrow it's the rest of us.  

 7                And these provisions are important.  

 8   We've got to stand by them.  We ought to live by 

 9   them.  I vote no, Mr. President.

10                (Scattered applause from the 

11   Minority.)

12                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

13   Ortt.  Senator Ortt, on the bill or would you 

14   like to ask a question of the sponsor?  

15                SENATOR ORTT:   On the bill, 

16   Mr. President.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

18   Ortt on the bill.

19                SENATOR ORTT:   Mr. President, I 

20   don't know that I can follow that, but I have to.

21                Lookit, there's an old saying, and 

22   I'm sure everyone here has heard -- I've always 

23   believed good policy and good government equals 

24   good politics.  Because when you're doing the 

25   right thing policy-wise, politically or 


                                                               3522

 1   governmentally, it's easy to defend that 

 2   politically.

 3                But I do not believe the reverse is 

 4   true.  Good politics does not always equal good 

 5   policy or good government.  This is good politics 

 6   for some people in this room, but this is bad 

 7   policy.  And it's bad government.  We're 

 8   literally passing a piece of legislation -- and 

 9   I'm not an attorney, I can't speak artfully on 

10   all the constitutional nuances as Senator Lanza 

11   did, or maybe some other people in this room can.  

12   But we're removing protections that exist today, 

13   double jeopardy protections, that have existed 

14   for centuries.  And we're targeting a specific 

15   group of people even before the bill is passed.  

16                Now, from a legal standpoint, that 

17   has to be somewhat unprecedented.  And I think 

18   about -- because this bill is being supported and 

19   pushed by the Attorney General of New York State, 

20   who also has initiated action, legal action, 

21   using the significant powers of her office -- 

22   which for those that don't know carry with it 

23   some of most significant powers of any attorney 

24   general in the country from a state-level 

25   standpoint.


                                                               3523

 1                She's issued actions against the 

 2   National Rifle Association, which again for some 

 3   people in this room is a great thing.  They 

 4   applaud the politics of it.  But I have real 

 5   concerns about the merits of it, the policy of 

 6   it.  And I do not applaud the politics of it.  

 7   Because she's already stated the National Rifle 

 8   Association is a terrorist organization.  So 

 9   she's already made her bias clear, which I think 

10   colors any prosecution.  

11                I would say this is the same.  We 

12   are already showing our hands that we're 

13   targeting people who haven't been pardoned -- as 

14   my colleague Senator Gianaris said, no one's been 

15   pardoned yet, at least in the current 

16   administration, and yet we're already laying the 

17   groundwork to prosecute them.  And to the debate 

18   that occurred, in most cases where there's been 

19   pardons, there have been trials.  And so now 

20   they're going to be tried a second time, in most 

21   cases.  You don't need to be tried to be 

22   pardoned, but in most cases a pardon occurs after 

23   a conviction.  

24                And this is retroactive, which is 

25   even more crazy to me.  I know there's a legal 


                                                               3524

 1   term, ex post facto.  But when I'm home, I don't 

 2   use those words, I use, you know, retroactive.  

 3   And even then I might lose some people.  

 4                But the fact of the matter is -- I 

 5   mean, are we going to go back to George 

 6   Washington's pardons?  Maybe Bill Clinton's 

 7   pardons.  Maybe Marc Rich should be concerned 

 8   about his current state.  I mean, this opens up a 

 9   host of problems from a policy perspective.

10                But this isn't a policy bill.  This 

11   is a political bill.  It's being introduced for 

12   political reasons because for some folks, this is 

13   great politics.  I'm not one of those.  But 

14   regardless of that, it's bad policy and it's bad 

15   government.  

16                And to what Senator Lanza said, 

17   every time you remove a brick from the foundation 

18   of our republic, you don't get to just put it 

19   back.  And it weakens the structure.  And you do 

20   it enough times, and one day our descendants 

21   might look back and say, We really screwed things 

22   up because we chipped away at the foundations of 

23   our republic and the foundations of our democracy 

24   for political ends.

25                So this is a bad political bill to 


                                                               3525

 1   me, Mr. President.  But again, I would say this 

 2   is terrible policy, this is terrible government.  

 3   And the notion that with all the issues facing 

 4   New Yorkers that we are in this room debating, 

 5   discussing, passing this -- because this, this is 

 6   what's keeping New Yorkers awake at night.  We've 

 7   got to worry about the pardons, potentially, in 

 8   prosecuting members of the president's family or 

 9   the president himself or members of his 

10   administration.  Who, by the way, haven't been 

11   pardoned.  We're just doing it preemptively and 

12   retroactively.

13                Bad policy, bad government, bad 

14   politics.  Mr. President, I vote nay.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Are 

16   there any other Senators wishing to be heard?

17                Senator Ranzenhofer.  

18                SENATOR RANZENHOFER:   Yes, thank 

19   you, Mr. President --

20                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   On the 

21   bill, or are you asking a question.

22                SENATOR RANZENHOFER:   No, I'm on 

23   the bill, thank you.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

25   Ranzenhofer on the bill.


                                                               3526

 1                SENATOR RANZENHOFER:   So we've had 

 2   a couple of comments about what various Senators, 

 3   you know, feel about the bill, and the 

 4   conversation has been good.  And interestingly 

 5   enough, as I'm reading through the legislation 

 6   and I'm reading through some of the memos, I just 

 7   wanted to read into the record some of the 

 8   comments from the NYCLU -- which I don't often 

 9   quote, but I think it's appropriate in this 

10   particular debate to just talk about some of 

11   these things and to talk about this on the 

12   record.

13                The first comment in their memo 

14   states that "Since this country's founding, 

15   people in the United States have relied on double 

16   jeopardy protections to shield individual liberty 

17   and guard against government harassment and 

18   overreach."  And I think that was to Senator 

19   Lanza's point, is this is really -- what we have 

20   in the constitution is to protect against 

21   tyranny.  And what we're doing here is we're 

22   saying, well, that's not important.  Those 

23   protections are not important for the people of 

24   the State of New York, for the people of this 

25   country.  We're going to disregard this.


                                                               3527

 1                It further goes on to say that "This 

 2   legislation would undermine New York's model 

 3   double jeopardy statute to give effect to 

 4   short-term political gratification."  To another 

 5   point that was raised by Senator Ortt and Senator 

 6   Lanza, is that what this bill is really about?  

 7   This bill is about short-term political 

 8   gratification.  

 9                We in the Senate should not be 

10   looking for short-term political gratification, 

11   we should be looking at what policies are good 

12   for our constituents and for the residents of the 

13   State of New York.  

14                It further goes on to say that 

15   "However, the short-term satisfaction derived 

16   from these individual cases is not worth the 

17   long-term damage this measure will do to 

18   New York's critical protections for all people 

19   accused of crimes."  That's an important policy 

20   which should not be undermined for short-term 

21   political gratification.

22                It further goes on to say that "This 

23   misguided legislation could also lead to further 

24   erosion of New York's statutory double jeopardy 

25   protections, laying the path for those who wish 


                                                               3528

 1   to carve out other categories of individuals from 

 2   our state's important safeguards.  Even the way 

 3   New York's robust double jeopardy protections are 

 4   now being described by the bill's proponents -- 

 5   as 'loopholes' -- threatens to undermine the 

 6   law's critical protections for all defendants."

 7                Interestingly, as we've had debates 

 8   on public safety and criminal justice, this is 

 9   normally an argument that I hear coming from the 

10   other side of the aisle.  Not today, because of 

11   short-term gratification, political in nature.

12                It goes on to say and concludes that 

13   "New York's strong statutory double jeopardy 

14   protections embody the commitment made in the 

15   federal and state constitutions:  that 

16   individuals should not live in fear of vindictive 

17   government action that can wear them down and 

18   subject them to expense, embarrassment, anxiety 

19   and insecurity by repeatedly trying them in 

20   different venues until they secure a conviction."  

21                Now, I don't know if Senator Lanza 

22   read this memo, but that's exactly the point that 

23   Senator Lanza was making.  New York should not 

24   undermine an important statutory safeguard for 

25   short-term political gain, and it urges the rapid 


                                                               3529

 1   defeat of these bills.

 2                And this is what this is really all 

 3   about.  Are we here to win short-term political 

 4   hits?  Now, obviously you have the votes to pass 

 5   this.  And is that what we're all about, 

 6   short-term political hits?  Or are we here to 

 7   talk about good policy?  And we have many 

 8   differences on our policies.  Should we be 

 9   enacting political legislation for the purposes 

10   of political gain and to oppress your enemies, no 

11   matter which side you're on?  Should Republicans 

12   have done this when Democratic presidents were in 

13   office?  Should Democrats do this when Republican 

14   presidents are in office?  

15                I mean, that's really -- you know, 

16   that's what this body is all about.  Is that what 

17   we have come down to?  Is that what we are 

18   stating as our priorities?  You know, should we 

19   be concerned about the massive migration from 

20   this state, or should we be passing a bill like 

21   this to be able to then do a press conference, do 

22   a blast email and say, hey, look at me, I'm 

23   great, I scored this great political hit -- but 

24   at what expense?  At what expense?  

25                I don't think the expense is worth 


                                                               3530

 1   it.  When we get to the vote, I will be voting 

 2   no.  But this is a sad low in this chamber.  And 

 3   this chamber has had other moments of highs and 

 4   lows.  But unfortunately, Mr. President, I 

 5   believe that this is a new low in the New York 

 6   State Senate.

 7                Thank you, Mr. President.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 9   O'Mara on the bill.

10                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

11   Mr. President.

12                I rise to join my colleagues that 

13   have spoken before me, I'm sure far more 

14   eloquently than I will do.

15                I truly believe that this is a pure 

16   and simple political maneuver to attack a sitting 

17   president of the United States to score political 

18   points in your individual districts.

19                And I'm also quite sure that if this 

20   passes and becomes law, you all will rue the day 

21   that you established this in New York State.

22                This is attacking the basic 

23   foundation of our criminal justice system in the 

24   United States of America in New York State:  

25   Violating double jeopardy, bills of attainder, 


                                                               3531

 1   ex post facto charging somebody with a crime that 

 2   wasn't illegal when they undertook the action.  

 3                This is a huge mistake.  And it's 

 4   all politics on the federal level.  Well, we're 

 5   New York State.  We should be above that.  We 

 6   should be above the fray and the nonsense that's 

 7   going on in Washington that my constituents are 

 8   sick and tired of and want us to move forward.

 9                But yet this bill isn't enough.  We 

10   have another bill on the calendar today to again 

11   take a shot at our sitting president in an effort 

12   to disclose tax returns of individuals.  You will 

13   rue the day that you pass that also.

14                And we have yet further legislation 

15   to attack a certain individual by changing the 

16   way we assess golf courses in New York State, to 

17   again to get after our president individually.

18                This is a sad time in New York State 

19   history.  I have to ask myself, as we sit here 

20   debating these bills, how does this help our 

21   constituents?  How does this help the average 

22   New Yorker?  What is this doing to improve our 

23   sad state of our infrastructure in New York 

24   State?  What is this doing to help small business 

25   in New York State?  What is this doing to help 


                                                               3532

 1   the average hardworking New Yorker who could care 

 2   less about this nonsense going on -- what's going 

 3   on here today in this chamber and what's going on 

 4   nationally. 

 5                We need to get to work in this 

 6   chamber.  We have only 19 days of session left in 

 7   this legislative calendar, and we're wasting 

 8   precious time on legislation such as this that is 

 9   going at the basic foundation of our criminal 

10   justice system and the protections that we all 

11   have from overzealous prosecution, from repeated 

12   prosecutions going after individuals.

13                Thank you, Mr. President.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

15   Bailey on the bill.

16                SENATOR BAILEY:   Thank you, 

17   Mr. President.  I will be brief.  

18                And I appreciate the conversation 

19   that we're having today.  Even if I don't agree, 

20   I appreciate the discussion.  I appreciate and 

21   always do appreciate Senator Lanza's legal mind.  

22   We've had discussions and we've had 

23   disagreements.  

24                And I'm not sure if this 

25   interpretation is an originalist perspective of 


                                                               3533

 1   the Constitution, but I've always believed that 

 2   the Constitution should be considered as a living 

 3   document, that as times change, things that the 

 4   framers could not imagine would happen have 

 5   happened.  If we are looking at things from an 

 6   originalist perspective, women would still not 

 7   have the right to vote.  If we looked at things 

 8   from an originalist perspective, I as a black man 

 9   in America would still be considered three-fifths 

10   of a human being if we looked at the Constitution 

11   from an originalist perspective.  

12                I am not saying that this is an 

13   originalist standpoint.  What I am saying is that 

14   legislation like this is important because it 

15   allows us as a legislature, and the state and the 

16   country, to evolve.  As times change, we must 

17   change with them or be changed by them.

18                Thank you, Mr. President.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Are 

20   there any other Senators wishing to be heard?  

21                Seeing and hearing none, the debate 

22   is closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.

23                Oh, Senator Kaminsky on the bill.

24                SENATOR KAMINSKY:   Thank you, 

25   Mr. President.


                                                               3534

 1                I just want to first talk about what 

 2   this bill does and what this doesn't do, 

 3   especially in light of our constitutional 

 4   framework.  

 5                So let's start first.  I think 

 6   sometimes the world has a funny way of bringing 

 7   facts to us.  But in 1922, the U.S. Supreme Court 

 8   held, in U.S. v. Lanza, that there is a dual 

 9   sovereignty doctrine, and that a state is free to 

10   pursue a case within its own borders violating 

11   its own laws despite a federal case.

12                Now, a state of course, like 

13   New York had done in the 1960s -- and that we 

14   heard before that this is a century-old practice 

15   we're changing and we're taking a brick out of 

16   the structure of our foundation.  So here's what 

17   happened.  In 1922 the Supreme Court held -- and 

18   by the way, more than just in the Bill of Rights, 

19   and more than just in enumerated civil liberties, 

20   our Constitution itself is structured in a way to 

21   divide powers federally.  We all know this.  The 

22   state retained all its powers except those that 

23   it gave to the federal government, and those are 

24   enumerated throughout the Constitution.  But it 

25   certainly retained the rights to prosecute its 


                                                               3535

 1   own cases within its own borders when its own 

 2   laws were violated.  

 3                In 1922, in U.S. v. Lanza, it held 

 4   that just because the feds have brought a case 

 5   or, in reverse, the states have brought a case, 

 6   they could each pursue that individually in most 

 7   circumstances.

 8                Now, as a federal prosecutor I have 

 9   prosecuted individuals in a case where the state 

10   did not do justice in its case, which is the 

11   reverse.  And it sometimes happens that someone 

12   commits a crime so atrocious and the state case, 

13   because of a loophole in state law, or a 

14   technicality, for that person justice is not done 

15   and you have to ask the Department of Justice in 

16   Washington to do it.  But you could bring a 

17   federal case based on that, because they're dual 

18   sovereigns.  

19                Now, in the 1960s when New York 

20   crafted its double jeopardy statute, it 

21   decided -- we now call it a loophole.  I wasn't 

22   here in the '60s, I'm not sure -- that it decided 

23   that presidential pardons would be included in 

24   what is double jeopardy.  But that's done by 

25   statute.  New York did it itself.  So it cannot 


                                                               3536

 1   be the case that in 1960-something we deem that 

 2   New Yorkers should have an extra set of 

 3   liberties, which we do in many other areas, and 

 4   then 40 or so, 50 years later want to change that 

 5   by statute and have people jumping up and down 

 6   that the constitutional fabric is being torn 

 7   asunder before our very eyes and that we've 

 8   reached a new low.

 9                So here's what this bill will do.  

10   This bill says that the corrupt use of the 

11   presidential pardon will not inhibit New York law 

12   enforcement officials from bringing forward a 

13   case to a grand jury.  As simple as that.  

14                So if you are undermining an 

15   investigation into the president of any party, 

16   from now until the future -- and we're clearly 

17   conscientious of the fact that this is not just 

18   one bill aimed at one investigation concerning 

19   one person.  This will happen going forward 

20   perhaps many years.  

21                And yes, if a Democratic president 

22   corruptly uses the pardon power for his or her 

23   benefit to undermine the rule of law, New York, 

24   as a sovereign entity, will have a right to do 

25   so.  And guess what?  So do 24 other states that 


                                                               3537

 1   New York will be joining today.

 2                So the fact that this is a new low, 

 3   that we're tearing apart the constitution -- this 

 4   is common practice, if this bill is passed, in 

 5   half the states of the United States, who have 

 6   chosen to give their own prosecutors the right to 

 7   seek redress for violations of state law.  And 

 8   what ultimately will determine that are the 

 9   people of the State of New York.  Our grand 

10   juries and our juries in courts of law will make 

11   those decisions.

12                Every day we have debates almost 

13   back and forth about what it means to be held 

14   accountable, what happens when someone violates 

15   the law.  Right?  We had that debate yesterday.  

16   We've had that debate quite often.  And today it 

17   seems the world has flipped on its head.  Instead 

18   of wanting to pursue accountability when someone 

19   violated the law, or wanting to make sure justice 

20   was done for the victims of those crimes, whoever 

21   that may be -- today suddenly so many don't want 

22   to go down that track.  

23                When the New York Civil Liberties 

24   Union issues hundreds of memos a year about all 

25   types of infractions, today is the day that the 


                                                               3538

 1   other side of the aisle pulls it out when it 

 2   happens to be something about a president who's 

 3   also of their party.  I find that to be 

 4   inconsistent and unhelpful.

 5                So at the end of the day, what this 

 6   is going to do is very simple, and I think it 

 7   should be uncontroversial.  When someone breaks 

 8   the law in the State of New York, and if the 

 9   president pardons that person -- after this law 

10   is passed, by the way.  We're not able to go back 

11   in time -- then at that point New York will have 

12   the ability to bring a case before a grand jury 

13   in the State of New York, whether that's the 

14   attorney general or a local district attorney's 

15   office.

16                And if someone did not do the crime, 

17   then our system of justice should hopefully work.  

18   But if someone did do a crime and a president 

19   pardoned that person for corrupt reasons -- and 

20   that's the only reasons that apply for this 

21   bill -- then New York will have the right to 

22   pursue crimes within its sovereign borders.  

23   That's all this is.  

24                This makes sense.  And let the 

25   evidence go where it may, let leads be followed, 


                                                               3539

 1   and let the be truth be found.  That is all this 

 2   does.  

 3                I vote in the affirmative.  Thank 

 4   you, Mr. President.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Are 

 6   there any other Senators wishing to be heard?  

 7                Seeing and hearing none, debate is 

 8   closed.

 9                The Secretary will ring the bell.

10                Read the last section.

11                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

12   act shall take effect immediately.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

14   the roll.

15                (The Secretary called the roll.)

16                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

17   May to explain her vote.

18                SENATOR HELMING:   Thank you, 

19   Mr. President.

20                We've heard that this bill is 

21   motivated by hatred, but to my mind it is 

22   motivated by -- and certainly my vote in favor of 

23   it is motivated by -- love of our democracy.

24                Over the last few years we have 

25   learned that a lot of the protections we take for 


                                                               3540

 1   granted in our democracy, particularly guarantees 

 2   of transparency and accountability, are not 

 3   enforceable in the face of an administration that 

 4   does not act in good faith and does not respect 

 5   the rule of law.

 6                I agree with Senator Lanza, it is 

 7   our job to defend our democracy from tyranny.  

 8   And I believe this is one small step that we can 

 9   take in order to do that.  

10                I proudly vote aye.  Thank you.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

12   May to be recorded in the affirmative.

13                Senator Lanza to explain his vote.

14                SENATOR LANZA:   Thank you, 

15   Mr. President, to explain my vote.  

16                I want to thank Senator Kaminsky for 

17   reminding me.  Of course I knew the case, it was 

18   a favorite of mine in law school, U.S. vs. Lanza.  

19   But it only proves that they've been beating up 

20   on the Lanzas for a long time.  

21                (Laughter.)

22                SENATOR LANZA:   Mr. President, I 

23   vote no.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

25   Lanza to be recorded in the negative.


                                                               3541

 1                Senator Tedisco to explain his vote.

 2                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Thank you, 

 3   Mr. President and my colleagues.

 4                I like what our Senator said over 

 5   there, protecting our democracy from tyranny.  

 6   That's important.  It could be a part of our 

 7   obligation.  

 8                I know that what we're doing now, as 

 9   has been mentioned, is more political than 

10   appropriate policy.  I mean, that's the way I 

11   feel about it.  I haven't seen our president out 

12   there really pardon anybody so far, so that 

13   doesn't exist.  But I guess in the future you 

14   feel it may happen and we should have another 

15   bite at the apple.  

16                But there's an old saying, what's 

17   good for the goose is good for the gander.  We've 

18   had a little bit of tyranny here at the Capitol.  

19   And it might not only be in these areas, it might 

20   be at the executive level at some point.  

21                So I asked our counsel does the 

22   Governor have the ability to pardon?  And he says 

23   yes, he does.  I haven't heard the Governor 

24   pardon anybody.  But should he pardon them in the 

25   future, don't you think we should have a second 


                                                               3542

 1   bite at the apple here, if we think he's done it 

 2   inappropriately?  I mean, what's good for the 

 3   goose is really good for the gander.  

 4                If you want the top guy and us to 

 5   weigh in -- because I hear a lot of that lately 

 6   around here in the Senate and the Assembly.  And 

 7   Mr. Brodsky, who was a fellow Assemblyman with 

 8   me, says we don't have enough power.  This 

 9   representative democracy is not working.  

10                Now, I'm going to try to draft that 

11   bill, and I'm going to try to make it so it kind 

12   of is parallel with what you're doing from the 

13   federal level to give us another bite at the 

14   apple.  Because I know you want to protect from 

15   tyranny from that second floor.  And when that 

16   second floor, whoever it is -- it could be 

17   anybody in the future, Republican, Democrat.  But 

18   we will get a second bite at the apple, which I 

19   know you want to do, to stop the tyranny that the 

20   Senator was talking about, not from the federal 

21   government pardoning somebody inappropriately, 

22   but right here, potentially.  Because the 

23   potential could be anywhere with the power of 

24   someone who could pardon.

25                So I know you're going to want to 


                                                               3543

 1   sign onto that bill, and I'll be circulating it 

 2   to all of you.  And then we'll let the media take 

 3   a look at how serious you are about doing what 

 4   you just said you wanted to do, protect from that 

 5   tyranny, really find out that that was done in an 

 6   inappropriate way.  And it won't be political, of 

 7   course, it will be an important policy issue, 

 8   because it will follow the policy issue you just 

 9   put forth here.

10                Now, I'm going to vote no on this 

11   one, but I'll take my vote back, maybe, if you do 

12   one for the State of New York and you equal it up 

13   a little bit and you're serious about it.  

14   Because I think you do understand there is a 

15   potential for the same situation to happen here:  

16   You may have somebody who gets in there and 

17   pardons somebody and you've got a realistic idea 

18   that that was not acceptable and that we've got 

19   to get the AG involved and go after those 

20   individuals.  

21                So I hope you'll support me in that 

22   and we can balance everything up at that time.  

23   Because I know this one is going to pass.  And 

24   I'll be happy to vote for that one when it comes.  

25                Thank you, Mr. President.


                                                               3544

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 2   Tedisco to be recorded in the negative.

 3                Senator Krueger to explain her vote.

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you very 

 5   much, Mr. President.

 6                So I learned a lot during this 

 7   debate, so I appreciate everybody's input.  And 

 8   it gave me a chance to spend a little time 

 9   reading and clarifying my understanding of the 

10   Constitution and why this doesn't violate double 

11   jeopardy.  

12                But from listening to a couple of my 

13   colleagues, they perhaps don't understand how 

14   limited this is.  This is in situations where the 

15   president has pardoned people who were working 

16   for him, affiliated with him, involved with 

17   activities that were of questionable legal 

18   activity to him -- or her, because we can have 

19   future presidents, and wouldn't that be nice, to 

20   refer to the president as a her.  

21                And so it's not a universal anybody 

22   who's ever pardoned by a president, but 

23   specifically in a subset of areas where we the 

24   people of the United States and of New York have 

25   a very, very personal interest in whether the 


                                                               3545

 1   president of the United States is using the power 

 2   to pardon to protect themselves, their family and 

 3   people who have worked for them, from the same 

 4   standards of law that everyone else is expected 

 5   to follow.  

 6                So if there's a parallel for 

 7   New York State -- and I'm not sure, maybe there 

 8   is, Senator -- I'm open to that discussion also.  

 9   But I want to emphasize this isn't a violation of 

10   the Constitution, it's not changing the 

11   Constitution, it's not opening ourselves up 

12   willy-nilly to any imaginable pardon.  This is a 

13   very subset issue that is crucial to the 

14   protection of our democracy, and I'm very glad 

15   that I have it before me today to vote for.

16                Thank you, Senator Kaminsky.  Thank 

17   you, Mr. President.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

19   Krueger to be recorded in the affirmative.

20                Any other Senators wishing to be 

21   heard?

22                Senator Jacobs to explain his vote.

23                SENATOR JACOBS:   Mr. President, I 

24   just wanted to -- as I'm reading the New York 

25   Civil Liberties memo of opposition, I want to 


                                                               3546

 1   just read the first paragraph, if I may.  

 2                "Since this country's founding, 

 3   people in the United States have relied on double 

 4   jeopardy protections to shield individual liberty 

 5   and guard against government harassment and 

 6   overreach.  After the Supreme Court undermined 

 7   constitutional double jeopardy protections by 

 8   introducing the concept of dual sovereignty, 

 9   permitting successive state and federal 

10   prosecutions based on the same crime, New York 

11   wisely adopted strong statutory double jeopardy 

12   protections superseding dual sovereignty and 

13   prohibiting "a second prosecution if the 

14   defendant has been once tried by another 

15   government of similar offense.  

16                "This legislation would undermine 

17   New York's model double jeopardy statute to give 

18   effect to short-term political gratification.  

19   The NYCLU opposes {this bill} and urges lawmakers 

20   to reject it."

21                I understand that the NYCLU puts a 

22   lot of memos out, but this is an entity that is 

23   no fan of our president but yet is compelled to 

24   stand against this bill because of the 

25   significance it would do to undermine our 


                                                               3547

 1   liberties.

 2                I vote no.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 4   Jacobs to be recorded in the negative.

 5                Senator Gianaris to explain his 

 6   vote.

 7                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you, 

 8   Mr. President.

 9                I just want to thank Senator 

10   Kaminsky for putting up a bill that for the first 

11   time in all my years here has the Republican 

12   conference citing the Civil Liberties Union.  

13                (Laughter.)

14                SENATOR GIANARIS:   So just having 

15   the opportunity to experience that is something I 

16   can take with me.  

17                So thank you, Senator Kaminsky.  

18   I'll be voting in the affirmative on this 

19   important legislation.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

21   Gianaris to be recorded in the affirmative.

22                Any other Senators wishing to be 

23   heard?

24                Seeing and hearing none, Senator 

25   Kaminsky to close.


                                                               3548

 1                SENATOR KAMINSKY:   Thank you.  I 

 2   would like to respond, Mr. President, to the idea 

 3   that there is nothing that could have engendered 

 4   the need for this bill, it's just being done for 

 5   political points.  And I point to the headline 

 6   from yesterday that says "President Pardons 

 7   Former Soldiers Convicted of Killing Iraqi 

 8   Prisoner."  

 9                And when you take that news, along 

10   with the pardoning of Joe Arpaio, of Dinesh 

11   D'Souza, of a number of things, and you turn to 

12   the Mueller report, which says, Don't worry, you 

13   don't need to talk to the government, our buddy's 

14   going to take care of us -- all these things 

15   certainly bring into stark relief the need to 

16   chose this loophole.  

17                This is not directed at any 

18   particular person.  But I will be the first one 

19   to say that the actions from this White House 

20   have certainly highlighted the need for New York 

21   to stand up for itself, to be able to 

22   prosecute crimes that occur within its borders 

23   after a corrupt presidential pardon.

24                I vote in the affirmative.  

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 


                                                               3549

 1   Kaminsky to be recorded in the affirmative.

 2                Announce the results.

 3                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 4   Calendar Number 394, those Senators voting in the 

 5   negative are Senators Akshar, Amedore, Antonacci, 

 6   Boyle, Felder, Flanagan, Gallivan, Griffo, 

 7   Helming, Jacobs, Lanza, LaValle, Little, 

 8   Martinez, O'Mara, Ortt, Ranzenhofer, Ritchie, 

 9   Robach, Serino, Seward and Tedisco.

10                Ayes, 38.  Nays, 22.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

12   bill is passed.

13                The Secretary will read.

14                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

15   520, Senate Print 5072A, by Senator Hoylman, an 

16   act to amend the Tax Law.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

18   Lanza on the bill.

19                SENATOR LANZA:   Thank you, 

20   Mr. President, to -- on the bill.

21                So we're elected here to serve in 

22   the New York State Senate, to serve the best 

23   interests of the people both in our district and 

24   around the state.  We do that by passing all 

25   sorts of legislation.  We do that by making sure 


                                                               3550

 1   that we spend the taxpayer dollars wisely in one 

 2   of the largest budgets of any government in the 

 3   nation.  And we do that by understanding and 

 4   appreciating what people around the state really 

 5   care about and what's really going on in their 

 6   lives.

 7                So let me talk about what's 

 8   happening right now, as we enjoy the privilege of 

 9   serving in this body, in the lives of people 

10   around the state.  Right now we stand witness as 

11   our bridges and our roads are crumbling.  Right 

12   now, all across the state there's a new victim of 

13   crime.  Someone's identity is being stolen, 

14   someone is being raped, murdered, stabbed, 

15   burglarized, robbed.  

16                Right now, as we stand here, another 

17   New York business which is overregulated and 

18   overtaxed is closing its doors forever.  And that 

19   mom and that pop is trying to figure out what 

20   they're going to do next.  

21                Right now -- in fact, in a couple of 

22   weeks -- thousands of New York State students are 

23   graduating from college with an education, quite 

24   frankly, that isn't what it ought to be.  And 

25   they're wondering how the hell they are going to 


                                                               3551

 1   get out from under the mountain of school loan 

 2   debt that they've accumulated.  How are they 

 3   going to do it?  How is it going to affect their 

 4   lives in the next 10, 20, 30 years?  

 5                Right now hundreds, maybe thousands 

 6   of New Yorkers are sitting bedside in a hospital 

 7   watching their husband, their wife, their son, 

 8   their daughter, their mother, their father 

 9   breathe their last breath, maybe succumbing to 

10   cancer, heart disease, diabetes, all manner of 

11   illness that plagues humanity.  

12                Right now a mom somewhere in 

13   New York is walking into her kitchen to find her 

14   son or her daughter lifeless on the floor, 

15   another of the thousands of victims of drug 

16   overdose in this state.  Not one, not 100, 

17   thousands already gone.  Thousands more to come.  

18                That's what's happening in New York 

19   right now.  That's what on the minds of 

20   New Yorkers right now.

21                How many families right now, this 

22   moment, have made the decision in New York that 

23   they can't do it anymore?  They're going to pull 

24   up, leave the homes they've lived in for 

25   100 years, 30 years, their families have been 


                                                               3552

 1   here, and leave their home state probably forever 

 2   because they just can't afford to live here 

 3   anymore.  Because it just doesn't make sense to 

 4   pay this tax and try to find a way to make ends 

 5   meet.  They can't do it.  They're leaving.  

 6                That's what's on the minds of people 

 7   right now.  Those are some of the real struggles 

 8   that families and people are going through right 

 9   now and will continue to do so in this state.  So 

10   what do politicians do when they don't have real 

11   solutions for real problems?  They lay down a 

12   smoke screen.  It's called sleight of hand.  They 

13   try to get you to look somewhere else.  They try 

14   to fool you into believing that you're on top of 

15   things, you'll get something done.  It may not 

16   actually happen but you're working.  You're 

17   talking.  

18                That's what this is all about.  

19   People are struggling and dying and leaving.  

20   People around here have a good idea:  Here's the 

21   solution.  We want to see President Trump's tax 

22   return.  Boy, that will just make everything feel 

23   better.  That will solve crime, that will create 

24   jobs, that will save lives, that will pay off 

25   student debt.  Not.  


                                                               3553

 1                It's really crazy.  You know, and it 

 2   would be bad enough if it was just about the 

 3   president's tax return, but it's worse.  It's 

 4   about everyone's tax return.  It doesn't stop 

 5   with the president.  This legislation doesn't 

 6   stop there.  That says we're going to let some 

 7   political hacks in Washington -- you know because 

 8   everybody loves what Congress is doing, 

 9   Republicans and Democrats.  They're very popular.  

10   You ought to look at their popularity numbers.  I 

11   think it's like 11.  

12                We're going to let them, political 

13   hacks, decide when they want to invade your 

14   privacy.  Sure, they'll give you a good reason at 

15   the moment.  Today it's because you're a 

16   Democrat, tomorrow it's because you're a 

17   Republican.  The next day it's because you want 

18   to run for Congress, and they're afraid.  Let's 

19   invade your privacy.  Let's meet in a room.  

20   We'll make up a reason.  It will be legitimate.  

21   It will be written.  It will take three of us, 

22   and then we've got your tax returns.

23                That's what the founders I'm sure 

24   envisioned when they established this nation.  

25   I'm sure that's what they thought would be good 


                                                               3554

 1   for all of us.  Hand over power to a bunch of 

 2   political hacks in Washington to let them, at 

 3   their whim, decide when they want to look into 

 4   your life, turn it upside down, and figure out 

 5   how to ruin you.

 6                You know, for those who say, Well, 

 7   we ought to know, we ought to know -- and I've 

 8   heard the things that people want to know about 

 9   in a certain person's tax return.  Well, you 

10   know, anybody who wants to know can know.  The 

11   people should know that the president, the 

12   candidate for president fills out a financial 

13   disclosure form, just like we do.  Within that 

14   document are all the things concerning conflicts, 

15   business interests, how much you own -- property, 

16   securities, money and otherwise.  It's all there.  

17   It's all there.  But don't let people know that, 

18   because they need to feel like they need to know 

19   more.

20                And again, it's not limited to the 

21   president.  Why?  Again, our freedom.  Our 

22   liberty.  Another brick from the wall.  That was 

23   a good song, by the way.  

24                (Laughter.)

25                SENATOR LANZA:   And by the way, 


                                                               3555

 1   wrongdoing on your tax return -- oh, we're going 

 2   to -- that's what we're going to find out.  

 3   Someone in this room is going to take a look at 

 4   it.  Antonacci, I think, is the only CPA.  Is 

 5   there another, maybe?  Someone here is going to 

 6   look at it and say aha, the smoking gun, here is 

 7   where the president lied on his tax return.  

 8                Well, you know what, that's why we 

 9   have the IRS, the New York State Department of 

10   Taxation.  They're experts.  We pay millions and 

11   millions and millions of dollars for these 

12   experts who look over everyone's tax return -- 

13   and I promise you, especially this president's 

14   tax return, which is being audited and is audited 

15   every year by the experts.  And I promise you, if 

16   they find one thing out of balance, one thing 

17   askew, we'll all know about it.  Because that's 

18   their job.  That's what they do.  That's what we 

19   pay them to do.

20                So again, I don't want to go over 

21   what has been said about short-term political 

22   hits in exchange for long-term horrible policy 

23   for the state.  I wish somebody would answer why, 

24   if it's about hatred of the president, why does 

25   it go beyond the president?  Maybe we'll hear 


                                                               3556

 1   about that.  

 2                But this is wrong.  I don't want 

 3   members of Congress deciding when they can attack 

 4   citizens of New York, when they could turn their 

 5   lives upside down.  That's just wrong.  That's 

 6   not the state I want to live in.  I don't think 

 7   the people back home that I represent want to 

 8   live in that state either.  

 9                Let's get back to actually talking 

10   about the things that are really affecting the 

11   people we represent.  When it comes time to vote, 

12   Mr. President, I'm going to be in the negative.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

14   Gianaris on the bill.

15                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you, 

16   Mr. President.  

17                I listened with amusement at some of 

18   my colleagues talking about what we're doing 

19   today relative to the rest of session.  And I 

20   thought maybe memories are short, so I thought 

21   I'd take a moment to just remind my colleagues of 

22   the historic nature of achievement that this 

23   Majority has brought.  Because I heard Senator 

24   Lanza just point out that he's surprised we're 

25   doing this when there's so much to be done.  


                                                               3557

 1                But let me remind him that we did 

 2   enact historic election reform.  We passed GENDA.  

 3   We did the Child Victims Act, historic criminal 

 4   justice reforms, important traffic safety 

 5   legislation, historic gun violence prevention, 

 6   protection of women's rights.  We did legislation 

 7   to punish revenge porn more aggressively, and to 

 8   ban offshore drilling, just to name a few.

 9                So by any account, this session, 

10   with a month and a half still to go, has been 

11   more productive than any -- than any member on 

12   the other side of the aisle when they served in 

13   the majority.  And we still have more to go, we 

14   have a lot more to do.

15                The truth is that this is a 

16   dangerous time in America.  When we have a 

17   president who is defying the norms of checks and 

18   balances and the balance of power in this 

19   country, when you have congressional committees 

20   being ignored, when you have executive privilege 

21   asserted over an entire report whose very purpose 

22   was to identify potential wrongdoing in an 

23   administration -- and just today the president 

24   says:  I don't want anyone to see any of it.  I 

25   wonder why.  I wonder why.  


                                                               3558

 1                So to merely say that when a duly 

 2   elected body of government, the United States 

 3   House of Representatives, or the United States 

 4   Senate, wants to see information that they 

 5   believe is relevant to their job of oversight, 

 6   and are ignored by the person who does not want 

 7   to be subject to that oversight, that we should 

 8   step in as a state and say we have the unique 

 9   ability, because we're New York, because a 

10   version of those tax returns reside here in 

11   New York, that we should step forward and make 

12   sure that the House can provide the oversight 

13   that it's empowered to under the Constitution.

14                I heard a lot in the discussion of 

15   the previous bill about constitutional principles 

16   and how important they are.  Well, the hypocrisy 

17   is pretty obvious when on the very next bill all 

18   of a sudden constitutional requirements of checks 

19   and balances don't matter to the very same 

20   people.

21                Now, what's the common thread?  They 

22   think they're protecting President Trump.  All we 

23   hear for weeks is they want to go after 

24   criminals, but not if it's someone in this 

25   administration.  All we hear about is 


                                                               3559

 1   transparency and the need for it, but not when 

 2   it's related to President Trump.  

 3                The fact is this administration is 

 4   taking this country down a very dangerous path 

 5   that we have not seen in this country since the 

 6   early '70s.  And if we have the ability to do 

 7   something about it here in New York, we have the 

 8   obligation to do something about it here in 

 9   New York.  That's what we're doing today.

10                And I want to commend Senator 

11   Hoylman for rolling up his sleeves and not giving 

12   up on this issue.  We're going to be proud that 

13   we passed this today and make sure that the 

14   people in this country who are elected to make 

15   sure that the president is doing his job properly 

16   have the ability to do that.

17                Thank you, Mr. President.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

19   Ortt on the resolution.

20                SENATOR ORTT:   Thank you, 

21   Mr. President.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   On the 

23   bill.  

24                SENATOR ORTT:   I'll try to be 

25   brief.  On the bill.  I wish it was a resolution, 


                                                               3560

 1   but it's a bill.

 2                You know, the last bill was very 

 3   specific.  In fact -- my colleague Senator 

 4   Krueger's outline -- it's very, very specific.  

 5   Which was still a problem, I think, for a lot of 

 6   folks.  This bill is anything but specific.  It 

 7   applies to everybody.  So to try to get to the 

 8   president or to try to make a political point, 

 9   we're going to potentially expose every 

10   New Yorker's tax returns to elected officials in 

11   Washington, D.C., who -- let's just be honest.  

12   This is not about oversight, doing their job; 

13   this is about 2020 and undermining the 

14   administration to see that it's not elected.  

15   It's about keeping an issue that isn't really an 

16   issue going.  

17                There is no constitutional right to 

18   someone's tax returns.  There simply -- that's 

19   just not true.  I'm not even a lawyer and I know 

20   that.  I just saved myself thousands of dollars 

21   for going to law school.  It's just not true.  

22                But we're doing this because this is 

23   a great issue politically.  And it keeps it 

24   going.  If there's ever been an issue that's a 

25   solution search of a problem, it's this.


                                                               3561

 1                New Yorkers do care about tax 

 2   returns.  They care about their own.  And they're 

 3   way too damn high.  But they don't care about 

 4   this issue because he didn't release them in the 

 5   election and he got elected anyways.  And if 

 6   people really care about it, they'll exercise 

 7   that judgment in 2020.  But all this is doing is 

 8   assisting Jerry Nadler and Nancy Pelosi in a 

 9   political investigation and a political 

10   prosecution.

11                And that's where these bills are 

12   linked.  And don't bother denying that it's for 

13   one goal, because you're not fooling yourselves, 

14   you're not fooling us, and you're not even 

15   fooling New Yorkers on either side of the 

16   political spectrum.  

17                So Mr. President, I vote nay.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Are 

19   there any other Senators wishing to be heard?  

20                Seeing and hearing none, Senator 

21   Hoylman to close on the bill.

22                SENATOR HOYLMAN:   Thank you, 

23   Mr. President.  Thank you to my colleagues for 

24   their comments.

25                I'm surprised, if this was such an 


                                                               3562

 1   important issue, that we actually didn't debate 

 2   it, including the double jeopardy bill.  But 

 3   maybe that suggests that our colleagues across 

 4   the aisle, you know, agree with us to a certain 

 5   extent.

 6                But I do want to clear up a couple 

 7   of things.  One is the notion that suddenly all 

 8   New Yorkers' tax returns will be exposed to 

 9   Congress.  Well, the truth is they already are.  

10   And that's the point of this legislation.  The 

11   three tax committees in Congress -- the House 

12   Ways and Means Committee, the Senate Finance 

13   Committee, and the Joint Committee on Taxation -- 

14   all have the ability to request from the IRS your 

15   tax filings for purposes of congressional 

16   investigation.  They can do that already.

17                Here's another point that I want to 

18   make.  In addition to those three congressional 

19   committees having that ability, right now the 

20   State of New York routinely and regularly shares 

21   your state tax filings with the federal 

22   government.  

23                And let me add to that.  In addition 

24   to Congress being able to get your tax returns 

25   through one of these three investigative 


                                                               3563

 1   committees, and in addition to the state sharing 

 2   your tax filings with the IRS, the state also 

 3   shares, routinely and regularly, your tax returns 

 4   with other states.  

 5                So in a way, we're not really doing 

 6   anything new here, Mr. President.  What we're 

 7   doing is creating another mechanism, another 

 8   mechanism for the three congressional committees 

 9   to obtain, review, and frankly assert their 

10   authority as a coequal branch of government, and 

11   an entity that has the solemn responsibility to 

12   oversee the executive, to look at state tax 

13   returns.

14                This has existed for nearly a 

15   century.  You know, it dates back to the Teapot 

16   Dome scandal in the 1920s when a member of Warren 

17   Harding's cabinet was taking bribes and Congress 

18   wanted to have a check on the executive.  Well, 

19   that's what we are in effect reestablishing 

20   today.  And in the statute, it's specific, it's 

21   unambiguous.  It says:  "Upon written request 

22   from the chairmen or chairwomen of the 

23   committees, the Secretary of the Treasury shall 

24   furnish such committee with any return or return 

25   information specified in such request."  


                                                               3564

 1                And throughout this past century we 

 2   in New York have supported these congressional 

 3   committees in their lawful exercise of these 

 4   oversight responsibilities.  But over the last 

 5   several months -- and this is where this 

 6   legislation comports with current events.  And 

 7   that may be uncomfortable with some of my 

 8   colleagues across the aisle, but I think we as 

 9   legislators need to respond to the times.  Over 

10   the last several months Congress, as we all know, 

11   has attempted to obtain tax information on our 

12   president from the Department of Treasury.  But 

13   the Trump administration, as recently as Monday, 

14   has refused to comply with the requests, and is 

15   in effect precipitating a constitutional 

16   showdown.  

17                Well, it's out of the deep concern 

18   over the crisis in Washington -- and 

19   Mr. President, I don't use that term lightly -- 

20   that we are gathered here today.  

21                And it's not just a crisis in terms 

22   of Congress and its responsibility to oversee the 

23   executive.  Let's not forget that occurring in 

24   our democracy today are attacks on the judiciary, 

25   are attacks on the free press, are voter 


                                                               3565

 1   disenfranchisement.  Talk about the building 

 2   bricks of our democracy.  Those bricks are being 

 3   pulled out one by one by this administration, and 

 4   I think it is the responsibility of the New York 

 5   State Senate and the Legislature to make sure 

 6   that that structure stands.

 7                I'll also say that a number of 

 8   provisions in the State Tax Law make it such that 

 9   we will not be handing over tax information.  

10   Quote, We are prohibited from divulging or making 

11   known in any manner state tax returns or tax 

12   information except in accordance with proper 

13   judicial order or as otherwise provided by law.

14                So again, this legislation creates a 

15   new exception to our state tax privacy laws and 

16   authorizes the State Tax Department to share 

17   state tax returns with a requesting congressional 

18   committee.  It doesn't make that information 

19   public, it doesn't share it with the press.  The 

20   request has to be written and made by the 

21   chairperson of one of these three congressional 

22   committees.  

23                The request also has to certify that 

24   the requesting information is for a specified and 

25   legitimate legislative purpose -- we're not 


                                                               3566

 1   talking about a fishing expedition here -- and 

 2   that the requesting committee has also made a 

 3   request to the U.S. Treasury secretary or their 

 4   designee for related federal return information.

 5                So this is a parallel track.  

 6   Congress just can't start requesting information 

 7   of New Yorkers.  They have to have made the 

 8   request at the federal level, and now they can 

 9   request it at the state level.  

10                And finally, the information will be 

11   treated consistent with federal laws pertaining 

12   to the inspection and disclosure of federal 

13   returns.

14                Now, the commissioner is also 

15   directed in this bill, you should know, to redact 

16   any information that would violate state or 

17   federal laws that might constitute an unwarranted 

18   invasion of personal privacy.

19                Look, this is a complicated issue.  

20   But in the end, the intentions and the result 

21   will be simple.  Congress will be allowed to 

22   fulfill its lawful oversight responsibilities and 

23   provide accountability and transparency to the 

24   American people.  Washington has failed to act on 

25   this issue.  The administration is stonewalling a 


                                                               3567

 1   coequal branch of government.  If they won't do 

 2   it, New York can.  That's been the way of 

 3   New York for centuries.  

 4                Mr. President, I vote aye.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 6   debate is closed.  

 7                The Secretary will ring the bell.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

 9   the last section.

10                THE SECRETARY:   Section 19.  This 

11   act shall take effect immediately.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

13   the roll.

14                (The Secretary called the roll.)

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

16   Akshar to explain his vote.

17                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Mr. President, 

18   thank you very much.  

19                I'm not a lawyer, and I certainly 

20   don't do the best job articulating my position 

21   from time to time, but let me just try to keep it 

22   very simple.  Our job here is in fact simple.  

23   We're sent to this great house to make life 

24   easier for New Yorkers.  There are millions of 

25   New Yorkers, of every race, creed and color -- 


                                                               3568

 1   and I'll align myself with something Senator 

 2   Lanza said -- millions of New Yorkers who 

 3   struggle every single day to pay their property 

 4   taxes, they struggle to pay their mortgage, they 

 5   struggle to find good-paying jobs.  If you're a 

 6   business owner, they struggle to make payroll or 

 7   pay their taxes.  Our roads and bridges are in 

 8   disrepair.  We're hemorrhaging people.  The 

 9   trains don't run on time.  No money for people 

10   with substance use disorder.  

11                Those, my friends, are very real 

12   issues that everyday New Yorkers are dealing 

13   with.  Our response?  We concern ourselves with 

14   the president's taxes.  We concern ourselves with 

15   the president's staff.  We concern ourselves with 

16   the president's family.  And even better yet, we 

17   concern ourselves with birds that fly into the 

18   sides of buildings.  

19                Those issues make no one's life 

20   easier.  Those issues make people feel good.  To 

21   Senator Ortt's point, political bills make people 

22   feel good politically.  

23                If you want to push back on the 

24   president, if you want to raise hell with the 

25   president, go ahead:  Run for a house seat.  Run 


                                                               3569

 1   for the United States Senate.  

 2                Senator Gianaris said he was amused.  

 3   Senator Gianaris, I'm glad we amuse you.  I am.  

 4   I'm glad you find amusement in what we're saying.  

 5   Let me tell you who's not amused.  Everyday 

 6   hardworking taxpayers are not amused that people 

 7   in the house and the other house concern 

 8   themselves with the issues that we're discussing 

 9   today.  They don't find any amusement in the fact 

10   that we're doing nothing to make life easier for 

11   them.  

12                So once again, I will stand with the 

13   hardworking, everyday, taxpaying New Yorkers and 

14   vote no on this political bill.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

16   Akshar to be recorded in the negative.

17                Any other Senators wishing to be 

18   heard?

19                Senator Flanagan to explain his 

20   vote.

21                SENATOR FLANAGAN:   Thank you, 

22   Mr. President.

23                And I have found myself enlightened 

24   by this debate and the preceding debate as well.

25                So I'm trying to figure this not 


                                                               3570

 1   just as an elected official, not as a member of 

 2   the Senate, but as an average New Yorker.  And I 

 3   equate my remarks with a number of things that 

 4   were said by Senator Akshar, Senator Lanza, and 

 5   some of my colleagues.  And I respect some of the 

 6   comments that were offered by members of the 

 7   Majority.  

 8                But I have to admit, for me 

 9   personally -- I don't want to speak for anybody 

10   else -- I'm kind of in awe and I'm very 

11   disconcerted at the same time.  

12                This bill is of relatively recent 

13   vintage in terms of its introduction.  The issue 

14   has been around for a while.  The political 

15   nature of it and the overtones have been kind of 

16   germinating for much more than roughly a month.  

17   But this bill was just recently amended.  There's 

18   been no hearings on this, other than the court, 

19   maybe, of public opinion or games that are being 

20   played in the media.

21                So I don't want to talk about the 

22   ACLU, I don't want to talk about any other issue.  

23   I actually am an attorney.  Senator Ortt, yes, I 

24   paid a lot of money to earn that degree, and I 

25   still would have difficulty saying I know 


                                                               3571

 1   everything about a bill of attainder or ex post 

 2   facto.  What I know about this legislation is in 

 3   my informed opinion, this should scare the hell 

 4   out of the average person who lives and resides 

 5   in the State of New York.

 6                So I'm going to give a quick 

 7   scenario.  And one-party rule cuts both ways.  

 8   Let's assume everything in Washington is all 

 9   Democratic, and you can flip it around from what 

10   I say.  It's all Democratic, and you have to come 

11   up with a certification that talks about a 

12   specific legislative purpose.  What the heck is 

13   that?  What is that?  You get a document that 

14   says we certify that we have a specific 

15   legislative purpose.  Okay.  We don't know what 

16   it is.  

17                Let's assume you have all Democratic 

18   rule in Washington and -- this is really an 

19   assumption -- you have all Republican rule in the 

20   State of New York.  And the federal government 

21   says, my God, that recent bill that they just 

22   passed in the State Legislature is horrific.  

23   It's the worst public policy we've seen in 

24   decades.  And by God, we'd better be prepared and 

25   we have to figure out what the heck is going on 


                                                               3572

 1   in New York.  So en masse, not for one member, 

 2   not for one member, but they decide we want the 

 3   tax returns of every member of the New York State 

 4   Senate, because we have the specific legislative 

 5   purpose.  

 6                The same thing could apply outside 

 7   the halls of this chamber and of this Capitol.  

 8   And I'll use -- a lot of my colleagues talk about 

 9   their involvement with sportsmen's groups.  

10   Someone decides in Washington they don't like the 

11   way things are going.  This is not about Ken 

12   LaValle or Mike Gianaris or Senator Serrano.  

13   This could be about a group that people find 

14   anathema or distasteful.  There's nothing in this 

15   bill that precludes -- you go to the federal 

16   government and say, We want that return now, all 

17   of a sudden the State of New York, we have to 

18   provide that information.  I find that extremely 

19   troubling.  

20                This is bad public policy.  It's bad 

21   politics, in my opinion.  And I think when I go 

22   back to the people I represent, I don't want to 

23   have to explain to them that we are now doing 

24   this when there's so many other things that we 

25   should be attending to.  


                                                               3573

 1                But people can talk about the 

 2   president all they want.  This is about the 

 3   average person and the average group who will now 

 4   be subject to scrutiny.  And let's be clear.  You 

 5   get this kind of information, it is never held 

 6   sacred, it is never held sacrosanct or 

 7   confidential.  All this stuff gets out there.  

 8   And yes, information's shared with other states, 

 9   yes -- with their tax departments, not with 

10   legislatures.  That's not the way it should be.  

11                So yes, I said I'm in awe and I'm 

12   disconcerted and I'm glad I got a chance to 

13   listen to everybody.  I'm going to go back to the 

14   people I represent, I don't care if it's social 

15   media or a public venue, and I'm going to tell 

16   them I got up and I proudly voted against this 

17   intrusion into people's personal lives, a 

18   complete disregard for their civil liberties and 

19   their protections that should be afforded without 

20   any discussion.  

21                I am going to vote no, and I'm going 

22   to do so, if I can, with both hands.

23                Thank you, Mr. President.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

25   Flanagan to be recorded in the negative.


                                                               3574

 1                Any other Senators wishing to be 

 2   heard?  

 3                Senator Sepúlveda to explain his 

 4   vote.

 5                SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Thank you, 

 6   Mr. President.

 7                I find it rather interesting how my 

 8   colleagues on the other side profess to be the 

 9   law-and-order party, except law and order stops 

10   when people are at the federal level, especially 

11   when the president, the current president is 

12   potentially breaking every rule, and they want to 

13   resist for us, the general population, to find 

14   out.

15                But our colleague just indicated 

16   that this is an intrusion in the lives of people, 

17   but they have no problems intruding in the lives 

18   of women when they want to decide what to do with 

19   their bodies.  They have no problem intruding on 

20   the rights of people and infringing on the rights 

21   of people to vote in this country.  

22                And so this whole anger is pure 

23   nonsense, it's pure theatrics.  You can tell it 

24   to your social media, to your people, to your 

25   voters.  But we can tell everybody that we're 


                                                               3575

 1   defending the rights of people in this state to 

 2   be able to know if their elected officials are 

 3   corrupt or engaging in corrupt activity.  

 4                And if anybody wants my tax returns, 

 5   from Congress or otherwise -- and I guess my 

 6   colleague missed the part about this is already a 

 7   right that Congress has -- I'm happy to give them 

 8   that right.  

 9                I vote affirmatively.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

11   Sepúlveda to be recorded in the affirmative.

12                Senator Lanza.

13                SENATOR LANZA:   Thank you, 

14   Mr. President, to explain my vote.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

16   Lanza to explain his vote.

17                SENATOR LANZA:   Thank you, 

18   Mr. President.  

19                I've just heard a new standard in 

20   criminal prosecution in the State of New York.  I 

21   guess I can point a finger and say everyone here 

22   is potentially committing a crime.  I wouldn't do 

23   that, because that's just not the way we ought to 

24   be in society.  Forget about as legislators, we 

25   shouldn't be that way as people.  


                                                               3576

 1                But with respect to what has now 

 2   been said twice concerning the law with respect 

 3   to Congress already having the power to get your 

 4   tax returns, I'm holding the federal law.  It's 

 5   simply not true.

 6                You know, and the proof of that 

 7   is -- I just would find it very hard to believe 

 8   that Senator Hoylman would propose a law that 

 9   does something that people are already able to 

10   do.  That would be a waste of all our time, and 

11   that's not the way I think Senator Hoylman 

12   conducts himself.

13                And so here's the law.  Congress, 

14   three members, five members, 10 members -- they 

15   can't get your tax returns.  The people of the 

16   State of New York right now, they can't do it.  

17   As of now, until and if this law that we're 

18   considering here becomes law.

19                What Senator Hoylman I'm sure was 

20   talking about was the fact that the tax 

21   commission, the IRS, they can ask to see your tax 

22   returns here in New York as part of the process 

23   of them collecting your taxes, period.  Not to go 

24   off on some political witch hunt, which we all 

25   know this is about.


                                                               3577

 1                Again, you have a problem with the 

 2   president, I would still disagree with the law of 

 3   this with respect to the president.  But if 

 4   that's your concern, it should stop there and 

 5   leave the millions of taxpayers in the State of 

 6   New York alone.  

 7                I vote in the negative.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 9   Lanza to be recorded in the negative.

10                Senator Krueger to explain her vote.

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you, 

12   Mr. President.  

13                My, my.  Yet again, people broaden 

14   these bills so much farther than they actually 

15   are intended to be.  We're talking about rights 

16   Congress already have, and yet they are being 

17   stymied by a White House that refuses to follow 

18   our existing laws.  And so Congress may turn to 

19   the states and say, Help us get the information 

20   we should be legally able to get but are being 

21   stymied.  

22                I think the people of New York, just 

23   like the people of the other 49 states of this 

24   country, can imagine nothing more important than 

25   whether we have a federal government that is 


                                                               3578

 1   upholding our laws.  I think there's nothing that 

 2   is more important to people in 50 states of this 

 3   country than making sure we don't have corruption 

 4   at the highest level of the U.S. government.

 5                I don't know if any of those things 

 6   are true or not.  I just know that if I go home 

 7   and explain to people why I would vote no on this 

 8   bill because somebody said it might threaten 

 9   us -- I could very easily explain, no, take a 

10   look at the bill, read the bill, read the 

11   intention of the bill, read what would have to 

12   happen before we were turning over a tax return 

13   to a congressional committee and what they could 

14   and could not use it for.  

15                Frankly, those of us who are in the 

16   Legislature already have to put much of this 

17   information in the ethics forms we have to file 

18   every year.  

19                So to say somehow this is an attack 

20   on us, we put ourselves out there and ask people 

21   to elect us to office and make their laws.  We 

22   should certainly be prepared to be held 

23   accountable by the people for what we do and 

24   whether any of our actions don't pass the smell 

25   test.  That's part of our job.  


                                                               3579

 1                And to expect the same of the 

 2   president of the United States is clearly what 

 3   the people of the United States of America should 

 4   expect and the people of our state should expect.

 5                I proudly vote yes.  Thank you.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 7   Krueger to be recorded in the affirmative.

 8                Senator Hoylman to explain his vote, 

 9   to close.

10                SENATOR HOYLMAN:   Thank you, 

11   Mr. President.

12                I wanted to just reiterate the power 

13   that Congress already has.  And I think my 

14   colleagues across the aisle are misinformed.  

15   Title 26 of the United States Code, Section 

16   6103(f), says the following:  Upon written 

17   request from the chairmen of the committees, the 

18   three committees, the congressional committees I 

19   mentioned before -- the House Ways and Means 

20   Committee, the Senate Finance Committee, and the 

21   Joint Committee on Taxation -- the Secretary of 

22   the Treasury shall furnish such committee with 

23   any return or return information specified in 

24   such request.

25                The power of Congress to see your 


                                                               3580

 1   federal taxes already exists.  We're not doing 

 2   anything new here.

 3                And, you know, you can criticize us 

 4   for not having a hearing.  Let me criticize you 

 5   for not having a debate.  How do you go back to 

 6   your constituents and say, I raise both hands and 

 7   oppose this bill, they didn't have a hearing?  

 8   Colleagues, you didn't debate this.  You 

 9   shadow-boxed this bill here in the Senate for the 

10   TV cameras.  But if you want to talk, if you want 

11   to engage in debate, well, then you should raise 

12   your hand and do so.

13                Thirdly, I want to mention the fact 

14   that -- I want to thank the other side for making 

15   it crystal-clear, and I hope this is in the 

16   legislative record, that this is not a bill of 

17   attainder, this does not apply to one individual, 

18   as has been said by all of my colleagues across 

19   the aisle.  This applies to every New Yorker, 

20   this applies to every congressional committee 

21   that already has the power to seek the taxes at 

22   the federal level.  We are not singling out any 

23   individual or any corporation.

24                So thank you very much to my 

25   colleagues for their support of this bill.  I 


                                                               3581

 1   think this is an issue of utmost importance.  And 

 2   Senator Gianaris rattled off the accomplishments 

 3   of this session.  I believe we can walk and chew 

 4   gum at the same time, and even blow some bubbles, 

 5   given the amount of progress we've made in this 

 6   session toward making New Yorkers' lives better.

 7                I vote aye, Mr. President.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 9   Hoylman to be recorded in the affirmative.

10                Announce the results.

11                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

12   Calendar Number 520, those Senators voting in the 

13   negative are Senators Akshar, Amedore, Antonacci, 

14   Boyle, Felder, Flanagan, Gallivan, Griffo, 

15   Helming, Jacobs, Lanza, LaValle, Little, O'Mara, 

16   Ortt, Ranzenhofer, Ritchie, Robach, Serino, 

17   Seward and Tedisco.

18                Ayes, 39.  Nays, 21.  Absent from 

19   voting:  Senator Jordan.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

21   bill is passed.

22                Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

23   reading of the controversial calendar.

24                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Just to clarify 

25   the record, I believe Senator Jordan submitted a 


                                                               3582

 1   Rule 9 sheet on the previous bill, so her vote 

 2   will be reflected.  I assume it's in the 

 3   negative?  Okay.  

 4                Returning to motions for a moment, 

 5   Mr. President, on behalf of Senator Sanders, on 

 6   page 16 I offer the following amendments to 

 7   Calendar 141, Senate 2224A, and ask that said 

 8   bill retain its place on the Third Reading 

 9   Calendar.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

11   amendments are received, and the bill shall 

12   retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

13                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

14   in consultation with Senator Flanagan, Leader 

15   Stewart-Cousins hands up the following Minority 

16   member committee assignments and asks that they 

17   be filed in the Journal.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

19   hand-up was received and shall be filed in the 

20   Journal.

21                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Let me remind my 

22   Majority colleagues that we do have business in 

23   the Majority Conference Room at the conclusion of 

24   session today.  

25                And with that, is there any further 


                                                               3583

 1   business at the desk?

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   There 

 3   is no further business at the desk.

 4                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I move to 

 5   adjourn until Monday, May 13th, at 3:00 p.m., 

 6   intervening days being legislative days.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   On 

 8   motion, the Senate stands adjourned until Monday, 

 9   May 13th, at 3:00 p.m., intervening days being 

10   legislative days.  

11                The Senate Majority has a meeting in 

12   the Majority Conference Room.

13                Thank you.

14                (Whereupon, at 1:25 p.m., the Senate 

15   adjourned.)

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