Regular Session - March 30, 2021

                                                                   1887

 1                NEW YORK STATE SENATE

 2                          

 3                          

 4               THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

 5                          

 6                          

 7                          

 8                          

 9                  ALBANY, NEW YORK

10                   March 30, 2021

11                      3:32 p.m.

12                          

13                          

14                   REGULAR SESSION

15  

16  

17  

18  

19  SENATOR BRIAN A. BENJAMIN, Acting President

20  ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary

21  

22  

23  

24  

25  


                                                               1888

 1                P R O C E E D I N G S

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 3   Senate will come to order.  

 4                I ask everyone present to please 

 5   rise and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.  

 6                (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 

 7   the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   In the 

 9   absence of clergy, let us bow our heads in a 

10   moment of silent reflection or prayer.

11                (Whereupon, the assemblage respected 

12   a moment of silence.)

13                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Reading 

14   of the Journal.  

15                THE SECRETARY:   In Senate, Monday, 

16   March 29, 2021, the Senate met pursuant to 

17   adjournment.  The Journal of Sunday, March 28, 

18   2021, was read and approved.  On motion, Senate 

19   adjourned.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Without 

21   objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

22                Presentation of petitions.

23                Messages from the Assembly.

24                The Secretary will read.

25                THE SECRETARY:   Senator Gaughran 


                                                               1889

 1   moves to discharge, from the Committee on Local 

 2   Government, Assembly Bill Number 2580 and 

 3   substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 1090, 

 4   Third Reading Calendar 157.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

 6   Substitution so ordered.

 7                THE SECRETARY:   Senator Benjamin 

 8   moves to discharge, from the Committee on 

 9   Children and Families, Assembly Bill Number 1860 

10   and substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 

11   5081, Third Reading Calendar 553.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

13   substitution is so ordered.

14                THE SECRETARY:   Senator Rivera 

15   moves to discharge, from the Committee on Health, 

16   Assembly Bill Number 228 and substitute it for 

17   the identical Senate Bill 2119, Third Reading 

18   Calendar 577.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

20   substitution is so ordered.

21                Messages from the Governor.

22                Reports of standing committees.

23                Reports of select committees.

24                Communications and reports from 

25   state officers.


                                                               1890

 1                Motions and resolutions.

 2                Senator Gianaris.

 3                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, I 

 4   move that the following bills retain their -- oh, 

 5   I'm sorry, amendments are offered to the 

 6   following Third Reading Calendar bills:  

 7                By Senator Brouk, on page 13, 

 8   Calendar 380, Senate Print 4478;

 9                By Senator Sanders, page 27, 

10   Calendar 585, Senate Print 4095A; 

11                By Senator Mayer, page 30, 

12   Calendar 618, Senate Print 5576A; 

13                And by Senator May, page 32, 

14   Calendar 640, Senate Print 5267. 

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

16   amendments are received, and the bills shall 

17   retain their place on the Third Reading Calendar.

18                Senator Gianaris.

19                SENATOR GIANARIS:   On behalf of 

20   Senator Hinchey, I wish to call up Senate Print 

21   2135, recalled from the Assembly, which is now at 

22   the desk.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

24   Secretary will read.

25                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 


                                                               1891

 1   178, Senate Print 2135, by Senator Hinchey, an 

 2   act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law.

 3                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I move to 

 4   reconsider the vote by which the bill was passed.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 6   Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.  

 7                (The Secretary called the roll.)

 8                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 63.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

10   bill is restored to its place on the 

11   Third Reading Calendar.

12                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I offer the 

13   following amendments.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

15   amendments are received.

16                SENATOR GIANARIS:   On behalf of 

17   Senator Jackson, I wish to call up Senate 2008, 

18   recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the 

19   desk.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

21   Secretary will read.

22                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

23   570, Senate Print 2008, by Senator Jackson, an 

24   act to amend the Insurance Law. 

25                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to 


                                                               1892

 1   reconsider the vote by which the bill was passed.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 3   Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.

 4                (The Secretary called the roll.)

 5                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 63.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 7   bill is restored to its place on the 

 8   Third Reading Calendar.

 9                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I offer the 

10   following amendments.  

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

12   amendments are received.

13                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

14   there will be an immediate meeting of the 

15   Rules Committee in Room 332.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    There 

17   will be an immediate meeting of the 

18   Rules Committee in Room 332.

19                SENATOR GIANARIS:   The Senate 

20   stands at ease.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

22   Senate will stand at ease.

23                (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease 

24   at 3:35 p.m.)

25                (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at 


                                                               1893

 1   3:42 p.m.)

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 3   Senate will return to order.

 4                Senator Gianaris.

 5                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

 6   let's take up the report of the Rules Committee 

 7   which is at the desk.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 9   Secretary will read.

10                THE SECRETARY:   Senator 

11   Stewart-Cousins, from the Committee on Rules, 

12   reports the following bills:  

13                Senate Print 854A, by 

14   Senator Krueger, an act in relation to 

15   constituting Chapter 7-A of the Consolidated 

16   Laws;

17                Senate Print 558, by Senator Kaplan, 

18   an act to authorize the Manhasset Union Free 

19   School District and Manhasset Public Library to 

20   take certain actions; and

21                Senate Print 5943, by Senator 

22   Reichlin-Melnick, an act in relation to 

23   permitting the Suffern Central School District to 

24   move the date of their annual meeting.  

25                All bills reported direct to third 


                                                               1894

 1   reading.

 2                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to accept 

 3   the report of the Rules Committee.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   All 

 5   those in favor of accepting the report of the 

 6   Rules Committee signify by saying aye.

 7                (Response of "Aye.")

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

 9   Opposed, nay.

10                (No response.)

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

12   Rules Committee report is accepted.

13                Senator Gianaris.

14                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Let's take up 

15   the reading of the calendar, please.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

17   Secretary will read.

18                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 91, 

19   Senate Print 1416, by Senator Harckham, an act to 

20   amend the Mental Hygiene Law.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

22   the last section.

23                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

24   act shall take effect on the 30th day after it 

25   shall have become a law.


                                                               1895

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

 2   the roll.

 3                (The Secretary called the roll.)

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 5   Harckham to explain his vote.

 6                SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Thank you, 

 7   Mr. President.

 8                When people in early recovery -- 

 9   either just out of treatment or perhaps in a day 

10   program -- are moving on with their recovery, 

11   they have a need for safe housing.  Either 

12   they've lost their housing due to circumstances, 

13   or they're living in facilities that may not be 

14   safe for their recovery.  

15                So there are very few housing 

16   options for people in early recovery.  And 

17   recovery residences run the gamut from very good 

18   and very qualified to downright criminal.

19                And there's no way that patients can 

20   be reimbursed for their stays, and oftentimes 

21   families reach into their pockets for hundreds of 

22   thousands of dollars, because there is no set of 

23   standards that allows them to do this.

24                And groups like EAP, the Employee 

25   Assistance Program, are looking for ways to 


                                                               1896

 1   reimburse those stays.  Perhaps insurance, one 

 2   day, and Medicaid, can reimburse.

 3                So this legislation is a first step 

 4   at that.  It empowers OASAS to create a set of 

 5   standards that people would voluntarily comply 

 6   for that they can be certified for.  This gives 

 7   families and patients the knowledge that a 

 8   facility that they're going to is safe and secure 

 9   and will be a good place for their loved one in 

10   early recovery.  

11                And it also begins to build a body 

12   of knowledge and a set of standards whereby EAP 

13   and insurance and others can be billed to 

14   reimburse for a sustainable funding stream.  

15                So it's a simple piece of 

16   legislation, long overdue, just the beginning.  I 

17   thank colleagues for their support, and I'll be 

18   voting aye.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

20   Harckham to be recorded in the affirmative.

21                Announce the results.

22                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 63.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

24   bill is passed.

25                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 


                                                               1897

 1   116, Senate Print 1453B, by Senator Parker, an 

 2   act to amend Chapter 108 of the Laws of 2020.

 3                SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Lay it 

 5   aside.

 6                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 7   157, Assembly Print 2580, substituted earlier by 

 8   Assemblymember Thiele, an act to amend 

 9   Chapter 308 of the Laws of 2012.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

11   the last section.

12                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

13   act shall take effect immediately.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

15   the roll.

16                (The Secretary called the roll.)

17                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

18   Announce the results.

19                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 63.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

21   bill is passed.

22                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

23   467, Senate Print 1827, by Senator Skoufis, an 

24   act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 


                                                               1898

 1   the last section.

 2                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 3   act shall take effect immediately.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

 5   the roll.

 6                (The Secretary called the roll.)

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

 8   Announce the results.

 9                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

10   Calendar 467, voting in the negative:  

11   Senator Weik.

12                Ayes, 62.  Nays, 1.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

14   bill is passed.

15                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

16   512, Senate Print 482A, by Senator Persaud, an 

17   act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

19   the last section.

20                THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

21   act shall take effect on the 90th day after it 

22   shall have become a law.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

24   the roll.

25                (The Secretary called the roll.)


                                                               1899

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

 2   Announce the results.

 3                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 63.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 5   bill is passed.

 6                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 7   530, Senate Print 4165A, by Senator Bailey, an 

 8   act to amend the Executive Law.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

10   the last section.

11                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

12   act shall take effect on the 60th day after it 

13   shall have become a law.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

15   the roll.

16                (The Secretary called the roll.)

17                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

18   Announce the results.

19                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 63.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

21   bill is passed.

22                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

23   553, Assembly Print 1860, substituted earlier by 

24   Assemblymember Jean-Pierre, an act to amend the 

25   Social Services Law.


                                                               1900

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

 2   the last section.

 3                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 4   act shall take effect immediately.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

 6   the roll.

 7                (The Secretary called the roll.)

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

 9   Announce the results.

10                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 63.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

12   bill is passed.

13                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

14   577, Assembly Print 228, substituted earlier by 

15   Assemblymember Gottfried, an act to amend the 

16   Public Health Law.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

18   the last section.

19                THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

20   act shall take effect on the 180th day after it 

21   shall have become a law.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

23   the roll.

24                (The Secretary called the roll.)

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    


                                                               1901

 1   Announce the results.

 2                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 63.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 4   bill is passed.

 5                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 6   616, Senate Print 1925, by Senator Jackson, an 

 7   act to amend the Education Law.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

 9   the last section.

10                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

11   act shall take effect immediately.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

13   the roll.

14                (The Secretary called the roll.)

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

16   Announce the results.

17                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 63.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

19   bill is passed.

20                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

21   617, Senate Print 5545, by Senator Mayer, an act 

22   to amend the Education Law.

23                SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Lay it 

25   aside.


                                                               1902

 1                Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

 2   reading of today's calendar.

 3                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

 4   can we now move to the controversial calendar, 

 5   please, starting with Calendar 617.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 7   Secretary will ring the bell.

 8                The Secretary will read.

 9                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

10   617, Senate Print 5545, by Senator Mayer, an act 

11   to amend the Education Law.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

13   Lanza, why do you rise?

14                SENATOR LANZA:   Mr. President, I 

15   believe there's an amendment at the desk.  I 

16   waive the reading of that amendment and ask that 

17   you recognize Senator Palumbo to be heard.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Thank 

19   you, Senator Lanza.  

20                Upon review of the amendment, in 

21   accordance with Rule 6, Section 4B, I rule it 

22   nongermane and out of order at this time.

23                SENATOR LANZA:   Accordingly, 

24   Mr. President, I appeal the chair's ruling and 

25   ask that Senator Palumbo be recognized.


                                                               1903

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 2   appeal has been made and recognized, and 

 3   Senator Palumbo may be heard.

 4                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

 5   Mr. President.

 6                With respect to germaneness, this 

 7   bill is germane to the bill-in-chief because over 

 8   the past year the Governor has made numerous 

 9   executive orders and directives relating to the 

10   education laws and the election process 

11   procedures in our state.

12                Today is the 34th time my colleagues 

13   and I have brought this amendment to the floor, 

14   in the hopes that this chamber will show some 

15   courage to get back to business.

16                But we ultimately know what's going 

17   to happen.  And, as we've seen the previous 

18   33 times, that we're unfortunately not getting 

19   back to work.

20                Now, the -- in the interests of 

21   clawing back the Governor's emergency powers, we 

22   have seen numerous other distractions that have 

23   ultimately been occupying the Governor's time.  

24   But what's important to remember, we've also seen 

25   15,000 nursing home deaths as a result of his 


                                                               1904

 1   unilateral decisions.  

 2                And as we sit here today we also 

 3   have a directive for the Office for People with 

 4   Developmental Disabilities that is identical to 

 5   the March 25 COVID order for nursing homes.  

 6   Group homes, as we sit here today, are required 

 7   to take COVID-positive patients.  

 8                Now, of course they have to observe 

 9   certain protocols, but it's been disclosed -- and 

10   I think we can all agree -- that a hospital 

11   setting is the best place for someone who's 

12   positive with COVID-19.

13                However, I called for this a few 

14   weeks ago, introduced legislation last week to 

15   repeal that directive, and unfortunately there 

16   has been no action.  And quite frankly, I think 

17   that has a lot to do with the fact that the 

18   Governor has many other things on his plate and 

19   many other issues that he's dealing with.  But 

20   most importantly, he's refusing to even 

21   acknowledge something as serious as that.  

22                By the way, people with intellectual 

23   and developmental disabilities are three times 

24   more likely to die than the general population 

25   from COVID-19.


                                                               1905

 1                So my friends, as we sit here and 

 2   watch the world go by, it's time to get back to 

 3   work, and I urge an affirmative vote on this 

 4   amendment.  

 5                Thank you, Mr. President.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Thank 

 7   you, Senator Palumbo.  

 8                I want to remind the house that the 

 9   vote is on the procedures of the house and the 

10   ruling of the chair. 

11                Those in favor of overruling the 

12   chair signify by saying aye.

13                SENATOR LANZA:   Request a show of 

14   hands.

15                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

16   we've agreed to waive the showing of hands and 

17   record each member of the Minority in the 

18   affirmative.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Without 

20   objection, so ordered.

21                Announce the results.

22                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 20.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

24   ruling of the chair stands and the bill-in-chief 

25   is before the house.


                                                               1906

 1                Are there any other Senators wishing 

 2   to be heard?  

 3                Seeing and hearing none, debate is 

 4   closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.

 5                Read the last section.

 6                THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.  This 

 7   act shall take effect immediately.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

 9   the roll.

10                (The Secretary called the roll.)

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

12   Announce the results.

13                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

14   Calendar 617, those Senators voting in the 

15   negative are Senators Helming and Oberacker.  

16                Ayes, 61.  Nays, 2.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

18   bill is passed.

19                The Secretary will read.

20                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

21   116, Senate Print 1453B, by Senator Parker, an 

22   act to amend Chapter 108 of the Laws of 2020.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

24   Oberacker.

25                SENATOR OBERACKER:   Thank you, 


                                                               1907

 1   Mr. President.

 2                Through you, Mr. President, would 

 3   the sponsor yield for a few questions?  

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

 5   the sponsor yield?

 6                SENATOR PARKER:   Yes, 

 7   Mr. President.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 9   sponsor yields.

10                SENATOR OBERACKER:   Thank you.  And 

11   thank you, Senator.

12                This bill places a burden on 

13   broadband service providers, as it forces them 

14   to provide free service without the ability to 

15   assess late payment fees, penalties, or to 

16   require a deposit to all residential and small 

17   business customers with fewer than 25 employees 

18   who do not pay their bill during the entirety of 

19   a declared emergency.

20                Through you, Mr. President.  How are 

21   companies supposed to know which businesses have 

22   25 employees?

23                SENATOR PARKER:   Mr. President, 

24   through you.  

25                I'd like to inform the Senator, if 


                                                               1908

 1   he wasn't aware, that we're actually in the 

 2   middle of a once-in-a-hundred-year pandemic.  And 

 3   so this bill is really an extension of a bill 

 4   that we've actually already done creating a 

 5   utility moratorium for utility customers all over 

 6   the State of New York.

 7                This particular bill, what we 

 8   recognize is that people were forced to sometimes 

 9   leave their jobs, sometimes separated from their 

10   jobs because of no fault of their own and because 

11   of the pandemic, did not have income and thus 

12   were not only not able to pay their rent -- which 

13   we've had lots of conversations and passed 

14   legislation to address that -- but have not been 

15   able to pay, thus, then, their utilities, 

16   including gas, electric, water and what we 

17   acknowledge in this legislation is internet, 

18   phone service and wireless.

19                Why do we do that?  We would not put 

20   anybody in a house or an apartment in the State 

21   of New York without water, electric and gas.  I 

22   argue that in fact now broadband and cable have 

23   become as essential as water, electric and gas.  

24                In the midst of a pandemic in which 

25   we now started rolling out a vaccine, the only 


                                                               1909

 1   way for seniors to actually sign up for it was to 

 2   get onto the internet.  If we in fact cut it off 

 3   because they didn't have income, how do they even 

 4   sign up for a vaccine?  

 5                People who have lost their jobs 

 6   because of no fault of their own, how would they 

 7   be able to even get a new job to pay their bill 

 8   if in fact they had no broadband?  Right?  

 9                And so, you know, the news, all 

10   these things now come through internet, cable, 

11   wireless, and so that becomes as necessary as 

12   water, gas and electric.

13                In the particular case that the 

14   Senator is asking about vis-a-vis small 

15   businesses -- which, again, we're trying to 

16   help -- it really just takes some outreach by the 

17   companies to figure out what their customer base 

18   is, understanding who their customers are, and 

19   asking them about the information that they need 

20   relevant to this legislation.

21                SENATOR OBERACKER:   Through you, 

22   Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

23   yield.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

25   the sponsor yield? 


                                                               1910

 1                SENATOR PARKER:   Yes, 

 2   Mr. President.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 4   sponsor yields.

 5                SENATOR OBERACKER:   Thank you.  

 6                How would companies know if a small 

 7   business customer is either seasonal, short term, 

 8   or a temporary customer?  

 9                SENATOR PARKER:   Through you, 

10   Mr. President, ditto.  I mean, the reality is -- 

11   is, again, the same kind of outreach that is 

12   required.  

13                Again, these are not like arbitrary 

14   relationships or casual relationships.  This is a 

15   utility provider.  You should know what the needs 

16   are and what the usage rates of your customers 

17   are.  It's simple information.  If they don't 

18   have it, they have an army of people that in fact 

19   can address the issue with the individual 

20   customers and figure out which ones apply to this 

21   particular legislation.

22                SENATOR OBERACKER:   Through you, 

23   Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

24   yield.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 


                                                               1911

 1   the sponsor yield?  Does the sponsor yield?  

 2   Sponsor?  

 3                SENATOR PARKER:   Oh, yes.  Sorry.  

 4   Yes, Mr. President.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 6   sponsor yields.

 7                SENATOR OBERACKER:   Thank you.

 8                How are companies supposed to 

 9   determine whether the customer has the resources 

10   to pay the bill?

11                SENATOR PARKER:   So, again, 

12   companies have relationships with their -- with 

13   their -- companies, these utilities, have a 

14   relationship with their customers.  It is -- 

15   should not be a major problem for these same 

16   companies that talk to these companies' customers 

17   all of the time, to ascertain all of the 

18   information they need in order to have themselves 

19   be compliant with the law.

20                SENATOR OBERACKER:   Through you, 

21   Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

22   yield.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

24   the sponsor yield?

25                SENATOR PARKER:   Yes, 


                                                               1912

 1   Mr. President.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 3   sponsor yields.

 4                SENATOR OBERACKER:   Thank you.

 5                Broadband providers in New York 

 6   State have instituted numerous voluntary programs 

 7   to help those who have experienced financial 

 8   hardship during the pandemic, particularly for 

 9   work and education purposes.

10                Additionally, the federal emergency 

11   broadband benefit slated to roll out this spring 

12   would provide low-income households with a $50 

13   per month benefit for broadband service as well 

14   as a $100 benefit for the purpose and purchase of 

15   a connected device.

16                Through you, Mr. President, my 

17   question.  The original bill had an end date of 

18   December 31, 2021, but the new amended version 

19   now before us extends the sunset date until 

20   July 20, 2022.  Why is this bill being extended 

21   now for over two years past the start of the 

22   pandemic?

23                SENATOR PARKER:   Mr. President, 

24   through you.

25                Again, we understand that we're in 


                                                               1913

 1   the middle of a once-in-a-hundred-year pandemic.  

 2   People have been fighting for both their lives 

 3   and their livelihoods.  We have no less of a 

 4   burden in this body but to protect our residents 

 5   of this great state and to make sure that they 

 6   are protected from the cataclysm that is 

 7   befalling them.

 8                They were told to stay at home.  

 9   Many of them subsequently lost their jobs.  Many 

10   of them lost other income.  Many of them got 

11   sick.  Many died.  Many lost family members 

12   during this.

13                And in the midst of this, my friends 

14   on the other side of the aisle would say:  

15   Despite all the things that you have gone 

16   through, through no fault of your own, pay your 

17   bill.  Pay your bill.  I don't care whether you 

18   don't have a job.  I don't care whether you don't 

19   have any income.  I don't care that you lost the 

20   primary breadwinner in your family.  Pay your 

21   bill.

22                And we're simply saying give 

23   New Yorkers a chance to get back on their feet.  

24   Give them a chance to heal.  Give them a chance 

25   to find new employment.  Give them a chance to 


                                                               1914

 1   get the vaccine.  Give them a chance for their 

 2   kids to get out of distance learning back into 

 3   in-person learning.  Just give the people a 

 4   chance.

 5                And so we have created a timetable 

 6   in which the bill essentially ends on 

 7   December 31st of 2021, but then if you are 

 8   someone who still is having a hard time, you can 

 9   make a declaration that COVID has 

10   disproportionately affected you and you in fact 

11   get a little bit more time to get yourself back 

12   on your feet.  

13                It's the least that we can do for a 

14   group of people who have fought so hard to make 

15   this state so great and have been struck by this 

16   awful pandemic.

17                And so we think that this 

18   legislation is not just reasonable, it is proper, 

19   it is the right thing to do, it provides the 

20   much-needed relief to every single New Yorker 

21   across the state that they need.

22                It also does not discriminate 

23   against people on whether you lost all your 

24   income or some of your income.  It doesn't 

25   discriminate whether you're in the city or in a 


                                                               1915

 1   rural area.  It says all of us deserve some 

 2   time -- and if you are having a hard time.  

 3                Now, if you have been, you know, 

 4   somebody who -- you know, like the Senator across 

 5   the aisle who's asking the questions -- had a 

 6   job, had, you know, his health insurance, was 

 7   able to pay his bills, by all means you should be 

 8   paying your bill.  

 9                But if you're somebody who's been 

10   struck hard economically by this pandemic, you 

11   certainly need some relief, you certainly need 

12   some protection from the State of New York.  

13   That's what you pay your taxes for.  And we 

14   certainly should give them the time that they 

15   need in order to get themselves back on their 

16   feet, both literally and economically.

17                SENATOR OBERACKER:   Through you, 

18   Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

19   yield.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

21   the sponsor yield? 

22                SENATOR PARKER:   Yes, 

23   Mr. President.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

25   sponsor yields.


                                                               1916

 1                SENATOR OBERACKER:   Other states, 

 2   including Vermont, have a disconnection 

 3   moratorium on utilities but did not expand to the 

 4   nonregulated competitive companies.

 5                They've also established a special 

 6   fund with state and federal dollars to provide 

 7   eligible households and businesses with a grant 

 8   to pay for past-due balances for utilities.

 9                Could New York do something similar 

10   instead of a proposal like this that is preempted 

11   by federal law?

12                SENATOR PARKER:   Mr. President, 

13   first of all, Vermont?  Really?  We're comparing 

14   the great State of New York to Vermont?  

15                I represent more people in my 

16   district than they have in Vermont.  Why are we 

17   having a conversation about what they did with 

18   the -- the -- the -- I mean, people -- great 

19   folks in Vermont, but this is apples and oranges.  

20   Right?  Or in this particular case, you know a 

21   grape and a grape fruit.  

22                We really should be doing something 

23   that's proportional to the 20 million people who 

24   live in this great state, many of who have been 

25   disproportionately sick.  We had more deaths here 


                                                               1917

 1   than any -- than Vermont.  We had more people who 

 2   lost their jobs than Vermont.  And so the amount 

 3   of money that it would take in order for us to do 

 4   it in the way that Vermont does just simply does 

 5   not exist in this moment.  

 6                And again, we're not saying that 

 7   anybody should never pay their bill and that they 

 8   should -- you know, and that these arrears should 

 9   be stacked up and never paid.  

10                In fact, the next thing that we're 

11   working on -- and I invite the Senator to come 

12   and commune with me on this issue -- is the issue 

13   of, you know, utility arrears and how we in fact 

14   deal with those arrears.  

15                But in this moment, in this moment 

16   we're still in the midst of the pandemic.  Just 

17   yesterday we were talking about how the numbers 

18   are spiking in the State of New York.  This 

19   pandemic is not over.  People still not back to 

20   work, people still not present in in-person 

21   learning -- there is so much to do to get this 

22   great state back on its feet.  We need to 

23   continue to protect the State of New York.  

24                I am happy to stand on that wall and 

25   wield the sword in the night, the shield that 


                                                               1918

 1   protects the realms of people here in this great 

 2   state.  And we'll continue to pass legislation 

 3   that we believe does look ahead and does say 

 4   we're not going to wait for the federal 

 5   government, we're not going to wait for somebody 

 6   to tell us what to do, we're not going to wait 

 7   for a catastrophe of millions of people being cut 

 8   off and not having access to broadband or gas or 

 9   water or electric.  

10                We're going to do the right thing 

11   because we know what has to be done, we see what 

12   has to be done, and we're going to address it 

13   head on.

14                SENATOR OBERACKER:   Mr. President, 

15   on the bill.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

17   Oberacker on the bill.

18                SENATOR OBERACKER:   I appreciate my 

19   sponsor's answers and believe he has good 

20   intentions with this bill.  

21                And the analogy between Vermont and 

22   New York may seem appropriate.  You know, we have 

23   a saying in our company -- we do product 

24   development and research development for 

25   companies, and our saying is "You find something 


                                                               1919

 1   successful and you copy it."  And I would suggest 

 2   to my colleague that we find something successful 

 3   and copy it.

 4                You know, federal law explicitly 

 5   bars state regulation of mobile wireless rates 

 6   and entry and precludes a state from mandating a 

 7   particular rate for wireless service, including 

 8   any requirement that wireless providers offer 

 9   service month to month during a global pandemic 

10   without payment for services and without the 

11   ability to assess or collect late payment fees.

12                Connectivity is crucial, a lesson I 

13   know full well, representing a rural region of 

14   the State of New York where many, where many are 

15   without broadband or cellphone service.

16                Additional mandates that will leave 

17   broadband providers -- especially many of the 

18   smaller community-based companies that I 

19   represent -- in dire financial straits will not 

20   help reach our overall goal of providing 

21   affordable, reliable broadband to all.

22                This bill goes just a bit too far, 

23   and for that reason I will be voting no.

24                Thank you, Mr. President.  And thank 

25   you, Senator.


                                                               1920

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Are 

 2   there any other Senators wishing to be heard?

 3                Seeing and hearing none, debate is 

 4   closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.

 5                Read the last section.

 6                THE SECRETARY:   Section 9.  This 

 7   act shall take effect immediately.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

 9   the roll.

10                (The Secretary called the roll.)

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

12   Brisport to explain his vote.

13                SENATOR BRISPORT:   Thank you, 

14   Mr. President.

15                I rise to thank you for presiding 

16   over this chamber and for my colleague, 

17   Senator Parker, for his impassioned defense of 

18   this bill.  It's a good bill.  

19                I stand here today to say we're 

20   passing this legislation because we know how 

21   serious utility shutoffs are and because we know 

22   that utility companies are willing to risk the 

23   safety and well-being of our constituents in an 

24   attempt to protect their bottom line.  

25                We recognize this as a crisis today 


                                                               1921

 1   because the pandemic has put so many New Yorkers 

 2   at risk of a shutoff.  But this was a crisis 

 3   before it started happening to middle-class 

 4   people.  This was a crisis before the pandemic 

 5   when it was happening to low-income people, when 

 6   it was happening disproportionately to Black and 

 7   Brown people.  

 8                It will continue to be a crisis for 

 9   those families long after this new moratorium has 

10   expired, because private companies are 

11   fundamentally designed to prioritize profit over 

12   providing consistent access to basic necessities.  

13                As we acknowledge the absolute 

14   necessity of utilities, we must also acknowledge 

15   that a system that fails to make them reliably 

16   accessible to everyone, regardless of income, is 

17   not a functional system.  

18                I am voting yes today in the sincere 

19   hope that we will promptly not wait to address 

20   the underlying cause of this crisis.  Without 

21   publicly owned and operated utilities, many of 

22   our constituents will face this crisis again the 

23   moment this bill sunsets.  

24                Thank you.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 


                                                               1922

 1   Brisport to be recorded in the affirmative.

 2                Senator Lanza to explain his vote.

 3                SENATOR LANZA:   Yes, Mr. President, 

 4   to explain my vote.

 5                You know, I heard on the radio this 

 6   morning that Game of Thrones was coming to 

 7   Broadway.  I'm glad it stopped first here in the 

 8   Senate.  

 9                (Laughter.)

10                SENATOR LANZA:   I thank my good 

11   friend Senator Parker for that.

12                And I want to respond to some of the 

13   comments.  

14                First of all, I want to assure you, 

15   Mr. President, we on this side of the aisle care.  

16   We care deeply about the way this pandemic has 

17   affected, really ravaged our state.  And it's why 

18   we have been so vocal in trying to push back on 

19   these arbitrary and unilateral emergency powers 

20   that this Governor has enjoyed now for more than 

21   a year.  

22                It's why we have stood up for small 

23   businesses and families across the State of 

24   New York.  It is why we have decried the 

25   arbitrary nature of so many of these policies 


                                                               1923

 1   that have been enacted by this government here in 

 2   New York.

 3                You know, I voted in the negative on 

 4   this bill the last time, in its earlier version.  

 5   One of the reasons I did so, Mr. President, was 

 6   because it excluded small businesses.  And I 

 7   thought that was wrong, because really they were 

 8   the first to go, if you will, because of the 

 9   edicts here in the state.  They were closed down 

10   a lot of times without rhyme and reason.

11                This time the sponsor has included 

12   small businesses.  I'm going to be voting in the 

13   affirmative.

14                But I share Senator Oberacker's 

15   concerns here with respect to the bill, and I 

16   associate myself with his comments.  

17                Yeah, it is true, if you've been put 

18   out of work by the government of the State of 

19   New York, there ought to be relief.  I happen to 

20   believe, though, and we on this side of the aisle 

21   happen to believe the relief ought to be coming 

22   from the government.  So if you were put out of 

23   work because of the edicts, the shutdowns here in 

24   New York, you have some time to pay your water, 

25   gas and electric.  


                                                               1924

 1                I would say, Mr. President, what 

 2   about small businesses in my district and every 

 3   district across the State of New York who were 

 4   shut down, again, without rhyme or reason?  And 

 5   the theory was we're going to do these lockdowns 

 6   and these shutdowns because we're going to save 

 7   lives.  

 8                Well, you know, if you look at the 

 9   science, you look at the results, you look at the 

10   statistics, it seems not to have worked here, 

11   Mr. President.  Because in spite of those 

12   shutdowns, the State of New York has suffered the 

13   second-highest death rate in America, closely 

14   behind New Jersey, our neighbor.  Far worse, far 

15   many more people died here in New York than in 

16   states where they didn't have these lockdowns and 

17   shutdowns.  

18                But again, the theory here, as I 

19   understand it, was that we're going to have these 

20   lockdowns and these shutdowns because they're 

21   going to be good for the public good.  It's going 

22   to be good for all the people of the State of 

23   New York.  

24                But we really only have presented 

25   the bill to a select few.  We shut businesses 


                                                               1925

 1   down, they're paying the whole tab, the theory 

 2   being we're going to help everyone.  I think 

 3   that's wrong.  If it was for everyone, then 

 4   everyone ought to be paying, and that means the 

 5   government ought to be paying.  

 6                I have small businesses, 

 7   Mr. President -- I'm going to wrap up here -- in 

 8   my district that have been shut down by this 

 9   Governor, arbitrary and capricious -- there are 

10   restaurants open on one side of the street, 

11   closed on the other side of the street.  And yet 

12   that business owner, he or she is still required 

13   to pay their property bill, their rent, their 

14   water bill in New York City, and many of them 

15   have already shuttered their doors, never to 

16   return.

17                So I'm going to be voting in the 

18   affirmative here.  I understand the spirit of 

19   this legislation, for my colleague and good 

20   friend Senator Parker.  I don't think it goes far 

21   enough.  I'm still waiting for relief for those 

22   small businesses that were shut down by 

23   ineffective edicts from this government.

24                I vote in the affirmative.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 


                                                               1926

 1   Lanza to be recorded in the affirmative.

 2                Senator Parker to close.

 3                SENATOR PARKER:   Thank you, 

 4   Mr. President.

 5                I actually rise to vote in the 

 6   affirmative on this legislation.  This is 

 7   something that we have spent a lot of time 

 8   working on.  

 9                I want to thank my colleagues in the 

10   Assembly and certainly the staff here in the 

11   Senate who have really done a yeoman's job at, 

12   you know, making sure that we address all of the 

13   issues for the most vulnerable New Yorkers.

14                Again, as I've indicated, this state 

15   has been ravaged by this -- you know, by 

16   COVID-19, a once-in-a-hundred-year pandemic.  

17   People have been fighting for both their lives 

18   and their livelihoods.  And the least that we 

19   could do is protect them from the economic stress 

20   of having to pay bills when they have no income 

21   through no fault of their own.

22                When people at the Senator's company 

23   are talking about find a good idea and copy it, 

24   this is the good idea that people are copying 

25   nationwide.  So by the way, we were the first 


                                                               1927

 1   state, right, because we're the Empire State, 

 2   right, and so we don't lead, right, unless -- as 

 3   my father used to tell me, you either lead, you 

 4   follow, or you get the hell out of the way.  

 5   Right?  We decided to lead.  

 6                And so we were the first state to do 

 7   a moratorium.  It is the most comprehensive 

 8   moratorium.  This one goes even further and will 

 9   continue to be a model for what other states do 

10   around the country.

11                As we talk about why it has ravaged 

12   places like New York and New Jersey, let me tell 

13   my good friend from Staten Island, the gentleman 

14   and my friend from Staten Island, I've got three 

15   words on why it's hit us harder than other 

16   places:  den-si-ty.  Right?  Yeah, den-si-ty.  

17   Right?  Like we are just a much denser community, 

18   both here in New York and in New Jersey, which is 

19   why you've seen it in -- more so than even in 

20   places likes California, which has a larger 

21   population but a lot more area for people to 

22   spread.  Right?  

23                And so when you talk about a place 

24   like New York City -- well, the State of New York 

25   and then New York City, where 50 percent of the 


                                                               1928

 1   population literally lives in one city, you know, 

 2   it creates a dynamic.  

 3                And then you add on top of that, you 

 4   know, social determinants of health, you know, 

 5   comorbidities.  Right?  We actually -- one of the 

 6   first bills that we passed in this body was a 

 7   bill I sponsored that directed the Office of 

 8   Health Disparities to look at the impact of 

 9   COVID-19 on Black and Latino communities, exactly 

10   because we were hit harder because of those other 

11   dynamics.

12                And we can -- so there's a lot of 

13   conversation I think to have it about this.  But 

14   in this particular case, we really just want to 

15   make sure that our seniors who need vaccines 

16   don't have their internet cut off.  We want to 

17   make sure our students who have to do their 

18   homework don't have their internet cut off.  We 

19   want to make sure that that mother who's taking 

20   care of her family doesn't have her water shut 

21   off because the breadwinner got COVID and passed 

22   away and she's now alone, trying to figure out 

23   how she's going to make ends meet.  

24                That's what we're doing here.  And 

25   frankly, we're not saying that these bills never 


                                                               1929

 1   get paid.  That is a conversation and a piece of 

 2   legislation for another day.

 3                In this moment we're simply 

 4   saying -- and part of the reason why we also are 

 5   saying this is because the courts are not even in 

 6   session.  So even if they cut you off, you can't 

 7   even adjudicate the case because -- because 

 8   they're -- because the courts are not meeting.  

 9                And so we think this legislation is 

10   the right thing to do.  We think it's timely, we 

11   think it's appropriate.  I want to thank my 

12   colleagues who voted for it.  And again, I vote 

13   aye.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

15   Senator Parker to be recorded in the affirmative.

16                Announce the results.

17                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

18   Calendar 116, those Senators voting in the 

19   negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Helming, 

20   Jordan, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Rath and Stec.  

21                Ayes, 54.  Nays, 9.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

23   bill is passed.

24                Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

25   reading of the controversial calendar.


                                                               1930

 1                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Can we now move 

 2   to the reading of the supplemental calendar, 

 3   please.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 5   Secretary will read.

 6                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 7   641, Senate Print 854A, by Senator Krueger, an 

 8   act in relation to constituting Chapter 7-A of 

 9   the Consolidated Laws.

10                SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Lay it 

12   aside.

13                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

14   642, Senate Print 5558, by Senator Kaplan, an act 

15   to authorize the Manhasset Union Free School 

16   District and Manhasset Public Library to take 

17   certain actions to correct an understatement in 

18   the certification of the 2020-2021 tax levy.

19                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Lay it aside for 

20   the day.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

22   bill will be laid aside for the day.

23                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

24   643, Senate Print 5943, by Senator 

25   Reichlin-Melnick, an act in relation to 


                                                               1931

 1   permitting the Suffern Central School District to 

 2   move the date of their annual meeting.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

 4   the last section.

 5                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 6   act shall take effect immediately.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

 8   the roll.

 9                (The Secretary called the roll.)

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

11   Announce the results.

12                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 63.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

14   bill is passed.

15                Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

16   reading of today's supplemental calendar.

17                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Can we now move 

18   to the reading of the controversial supplemental 

19   calendar.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

21   Secretary will ring the bell.

22                The Secretary will read.

23                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

24   641, Senate Print 854A, by Senator Krueger, an 

25   act in relation to constituting Chapter 7-A of 


                                                               1932

 1   the Consolidated Laws.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

 3   Senator Akshar.

 4                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Mr. President, 

 5   good afternoon.  Through you, would the sponsor 

 6   yield for a few questions.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

 8   the sponsor yield?

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Happily, 

10   Mr. President.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

12   sponsor yields.

13                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Senator Krueger, 

14   it's good to see you.  It's the first time this 

15   legislative session.  Good to see you.  I thank 

16   you in advance for answering a few of my 

17   questions.

18                Mr. President, through you, I would 

19   direct the sponsor's attention to page 2, lines 

20   31 and 32 of the bill, in which it states, in 

21   part, that this bill will "reduce violent crime."

22                Would the sponsor of the bill tell 

23   me exactly how this bill intends to reduce 

24   violent crime?

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 


                                                               1933

 1   Mr. President, right now we have an enormous 

 2   system of drug distribution in this state that is 

 3   controlled by cartels.  And they have taken 

 4   control of marijuana as well as much more 

 5   dangerous drugs.  There are often guns involved.  

 6   When people go to buy their marijuana, they don't 

 7   know who it is they're buying from; there's no 

 8   licensing.  They don't know if they are organized 

 9   crime.  They don't know if that same person is 

10   selling other, much more dangerous drugs.  

11                And the fact is, to have a legalized 

12   system, which is the proposal of this 

13   legislation, ensures that the drug is safe from 

14   seed to sale, the people who are handling the 

15   drug, marijuana, growing it to transporting it to 

16   distributing it to retail sites, to the stores 

17   themselves, are all licensed, where the state can 

18   keep track of exactly who's been involved in any 

19   level of the business and can make sure that 

20   dangerous cartel players are not involved in 

21   legal marijuana in New York State.

22                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Mr. President, 

23   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

24   yield.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 


                                                               1934

 1   the sponsor yield?

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 4   sponsor yields.

 5                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Is the sponsor 

 6   asserting that the Sinaloa or the Medellín Cartel 

 7   is really going to abide by the language in this 

 8   128-page bill?

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   No, I don't think 

10   cartel dangerous people are going to follow our 

11   laws.  They don't now.  

12                But I do think that people will 

13   choose within two options -- an illegal, 

14   dangerous option and a legal, regulated option -- 

15   to buy their marijuana through our legal, 

16   regulated options.  That is what they've been 

17   finding in other states that have already 

18   legalized.

19                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Mr. President, 

20   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

21   yield.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

23   the sponsor yield?

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 


                                                               1935

 1   sponsor yields.

 2                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Just in that vein, 

 3   if I could follow up with the last point you 

 4   made, is there anecdotal data or statistical data 

 5   that proves, in fact, that this illegal drug 

 6   trade, or at least in which cartels are part and 

 7   parcel to, that that activity has been reduced?

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So we believe 

 9   that the illicit market has actually been shrunk 

10   everywhere that has gone into a legal market.  

11   But we know that Colorado has carefully been 

12   tracking the reduction in their illegal market 

13   over the course of time that they have had a 

14   legal program.  And they've been up and running 

15   now for over five years?  Maybe 10 years.

16                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Mr. President, 

17   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

18   yield.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

20   the sponsor yield?

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

23   sponsor yields.

24                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Does the sponsor 

25   believe that in fact the cartels will find 


                                                               1936

 1   another place to do business, rather than the 

 2   State of New York, after this bill is signed into 

 3   law?  

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Well, that would 

 5   be lovely.  I don't know.  

 6                I do know what's interesting, when 

 7   you change your drug laws -- and we've seen it in 

 8   a variety of states now -- when you take away 

 9   criminal law for low-hanging fruit like teenagers 

10   with marijuana in their pockets, you end up 

11   freeing up your police and your DAs and your 

12   courts to go after the more serious criminals.  

13                And that is an absolute plus.  

14   Because in fact people talk about -- not that you 

15   asked me yet -- but people asked about how much 

16   money we could make in a legalized, regulated 

17   system.  But I think one of the really important 

18   things to understand from the research, we expect 

19   to actually save about $500 million in our 

20   criminal justice system simply because we have 

21   legalized marijuana.  

22                So we won't be using our police to 

23   pick up kids; we won't be using our police to 

24   transfer them to the precinct houses and process 

25   them.  We won't be clogging up our courts with 


                                                               1937

 1   these low-level offenses.  And that's a win for 

 2   everybody, because that means our criminal 

 3   justice system has those resources available to 

 4   go after actual bad guys.

 5                And I do believe that from the 

 6   perspective of cartels or criminal justice or 

 7   criminal behavior, that having more money freed 

 8   up for our police and our courts and our DAs to 

 9   use to go after actual criminals is a win for 

10   everyone.

11                SENATOR AKSHAR:   For whatever it's 

12   worth, I happen to agree with the sponsor on that 

13   particular point.

14                Mr. President, through you, if the 

15   sponsor will continue to yield.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

17   the sponsor yield?

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

20   sponsor yields.

21                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Did the sponsor 

22   actually negotiate the final language of the 

23   bill?  

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Our staffs did, 

25   with three-way discussions between the Assembly, 


                                                               1938

 1   the Senate, the Governor.  

 2                Was I in the room per se?  Not for 

 3   most of it.  Did I answer phone calls and texts 

 4   all times of day and night?  Yes, I did, sir.

 5                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Mr. President, 

 6   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

 7   yield.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

 9   the sponsor yield?

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

12   sponsor yields.

13                SENATOR AKSHAR:   I thank the 

14   sponsor for that answer.  

15                So those that were actually in the 

16   room negotiating the final language, is it your 

17   understanding that any of them conferred with 

18   mental health professionals, substance use 

19   disorder professionals, parent-teacher 

20   associations, school leaders, police officers, in 

21   coming up with the final language of the bill?

22                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So the answer is 

23   yes, Mr. President.  And it was me, sometimes, 

24   and it was staff.  

25                This bill has been percolating and 


                                                               1939

 1   morphing into a bigger and bigger and changed 

 2   and, I believe, better bill for over seven years.  

 3   When I first introduced it, everyone said I was 

 4   crazy.  They may have been right then; they may 

 5   be right now.  

 6                But the fact is we had hearings, we 

 7   took meetings -- endless, endless meetings with 

 8   anyone who asked us.  We met at the local level.  

 9   I would go out to people's communities if they 

10   invited me there to talk about their concerns.  

11                So in truthfulness, I'm not sure I 

12   have ever met with as diverse a group of people 

13   as I did over the seven years that my chief of 

14   staff and I were working on this bill.

15                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Mr. President, 

16   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

17   yield.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

19   the sponsor yield?

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, of course.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

22   sponsor yields.  

23                SENATOR AKSHAR:   During the course 

24   of that seven years and the evolution of this 

25   bill to where we finally land today, did you take 


                                                               1940

 1   into account some of the suggestions that maybe 

 2   groups that were opposed to this legislation put 

 3   forth?  And were any of those implemented in the 

 4   final bill language?  

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.  I think -- 

 6   I think many different people who had concerns, 

 7   their concerns were factored into this bill.

 8                I'm trying to think is there a way 

 9   to almost isolate it to even one set of topics.  

10   Again, it's a 160-page bill at the end.  

11                (Pause.)  I don't read lips very 

12   well through the mask, so it takes me extra time.  

13   So -- thank you.  Great.  So some examples. 

14                After speaking to PTAs and parents 

15   about concerns about marijuana and children -- 

16   even though, again, to reemphasize, this isn't a 

17   program for children.  This is a program to make 

18   marijuana legal for age 21 and up.  But we heard 

19   from parents, so we wanted to make sure that we 

20   factored in that you are not going to be able to 

21   have a delivery system that children will be able 

22   to get access to.  

23                That we're putting things in 

24   resealable, child-resistant packages that are 

25   appropriately labeled and are not targeted to be 


                                                               1941

 1   attractive to people under the age of 21.  No 

 2   candy-type cannabis products or products that 

 3   would be confused by children with being 

 4   children's candy.

 5                We put very strict advertising 

 6   limitations on the product so that you cannot be 

 7   targeting, through advertising campaigns, 

 8   children using the product.  It's actually 

 9   exceptionally difficult to advertise this.  There 

10   will be regulations, but we very much started 

11   where I think we've ended with tobacco in this 

12   state, where it's just pretty hard to do tobacco 

13   advertisements because of the recognition about 

14   tobacco and the concerns for children.

15                We have invested in public education 

16   funds to educate children and their families 

17   about the dangers of drugs, including marijuana, 

18   for young people.  We have established all kinds 

19   of traffic safety issues within the bill based on 

20   discussions with DAs and police.  In fact, that 

21   took up a huge amount of time in working through 

22   this bill to get here today.

23                We factored in concerns about 

24   communities perhaps just not wanting the product 

25   being sold at all because of concerns.  And we 


                                                               1942

 1   built in opt-out options so that localities can 

 2   decide they don't want dispensaries in their 

 3   locations.  Or they might not want a location 

 4   where you can use the product in a social 

 5   bar-type of situation.

 6                So all of those things came out of 

 7   meeting with groups, hearing what their concerns 

 8   were.  And there's much more, but those are the 

 9   examples for now.

10                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Thank you very 

11   much for that -- those explanations.

12                Mr. President, through you, if the 

13   sponsor would continue to yield.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

15   the sponsor yield?

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

18   sponsor yields.

19                SENATOR AKSHAR:   I just want to 

20   make sure I understood something that you just 

21   said in terms of the packaging and then what 

22   these edibles look like.  It's not your 

23   suggestion that there will not be marijuana-type 

24   gummy candy.  

25                And then in terms of the 


                                                               1943

 1   packaging -- a two-part question.  In terms of 

 2   the packaging, is the packaging going to be such 

 3   that a 16, 17 or 18 year old couldn't open that 

 4   package and ingest whatever is in it?

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   No, I don't think 

 6   there's a model for teenagers not being able to 

 7   open products.  But there is a standard among the 

 8   drug community, over the counter and 

 9   prescription, that you sell drugs in a way that 

10   younger children cannot open them and get their 

11   hands on them.

12                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Thank you.  

13   Mr. President -- I'm sorry, I interrupted. 

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   No, that's okay.  

15   You also asked about the gummies and the child 

16   candy.  

17                So a gummy people think of as it's 

18   chewable and it's edible, and that will certainly 

19   be an option in adult-use marijuana.  But no, 

20   they won't be little red bears or little squishy 

21   fish or all those other things that people 

22   identify as chewable candies today.

23                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Mr. President, 

24   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

25   yield.


                                                               1944

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

 2   the sponsor yield?

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 5   sponsor yields.

 6                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Just as a 

 7   follow-up to that point.  So is there a provision 

 8   in the statute that precludes one that is in the 

 9   business of manufacturing these gummy-type 

10   candies, of manufacturing it to look like a 

11   Swedish fish or a gummy bear?

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   (Reading.) 

13   "Packaging labels and shapes and products shall 

14   not be made to be attractive to or target persons 

15   under the age of 21."  

16                I would argue that turning it into a 

17   colorful squishy fish or spider or all these 

18   weird things that children seem to like to eat 

19   would meet the standard of not being okay.

20                SENATOR AKSHAR:   But they could 

21   look like a dot, you know, the candy dots?  

22                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I think they 

23   could look like a dot.  I think that would be a 

24   little harder to argue.  

25                Although we could have that 


                                                               1945

 1   discussion because, you know, if it was a rainbow 

 2   of dots on a piece of paper, not unlike a 

 3   specific children's candy I remember eating, I 

 4   could see arguing that that didn't meet the 

 5   standard.  

 6                And we will have an agency who will 

 7   be writing regulations and can address exactly 

 8   those kinds of questions.  And I think that if 

 9   the argument could be made that that's too 

10   identified as a children's candy product, I think 

11   it would be fine to say then it can't be a 

12   marijuana product.

13                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Thank you.

14                Mr. President, through you, if the 

15   sponsor would continue to yield.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

17   the sponsor yield?

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

20   sponsor yields.

21                SENATOR AKSHAR:   So you had noted 

22   Colorado a few minutes ago.  In Colorado, 

23   marijuana-related traffic deaths increased by 

24   48 percent after legalization for recreational 

25   purposes.  In the State of Washington, those 


                                                               1946

 1   fatalities in which the drivers tested positive 

 2   for THC doubled.  

 3                Are you concerned that we will see a 

 4   similar type death or traffic-related deaths like 

 5   Colorado and the State of Washington have?

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So there are 

 7   actually many different studies that people are 

 8   referencing.  And I can pull out quite a few 

 9   studies that show there was no real change in 

10   fatalities once there was legal marijuana.

11                What we do know is once there's 

12   legal marijuana, when there is a fatality, 

13   they've gone and tracked are they checking 

14   whether it was marijuana or not, or some other 

15   drug in someone's system.  

16                But I think there's actually far 

17   more research showing that there has been minimal 

18   changes in fatality rates after marijuana 

19   legalization in Washington and Colorado.  And 

20   that actually some of the original studies done, 

21   the authors asked people to stop citing their 

22   research as showing the growth, because they 

23   said, That's not what our research showed, and 

24   that's not what the intent of the reports or the 

25   findings were.


                                                               1947

 1                So "Crash Fatality Rates After 

 2   Recreational Marijuana Legalization in Washington 

 3   and Colorado," the Journal of Public Health.  

 4   "Driving While Stoned," Journal of Drug Policy 

 5   Analysis.  The American Journal of Public Health.  

 6                So there are quite a few studies 

 7   that I'd be happy to give you after the debate 

 8   showing that people are conflating different 

 9   things and that they have not been a problem.

10                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Mr. President, 

11   through you, it's safe to assume that the sponsor 

12   is not concerned with the question.

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm sorry, I 

14   didn't hear that.  Can you repeat that?  

15                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Yeah.  

16   Mr. President, through you.  I'm just trying --

17                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

18   the sponsor yield?  Do you yield for a question?  

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   No, I asked him 

20   to repeat what he said because I didn't hear him.

21                SENATOR AKSHAR:   I just want to 

22   make sure I understand that you and I may differ 

23   on this, but you -- where we stand today, you're 

24   not concerned about the statistical data that I 

25   suggested because you have studies that show the 


                                                               1948

 1   opposite.

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 3                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Thank you.

 4                Mr. President, through you, if the 

 5   sponsor would continue to yield.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

 7   the sponsor yield?

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm sorry.  Yes, 

 9   of course I yield.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

11   sponsor yields.  

12                SENATOR AKSHAR:   I just want to 

13   make sure your counsel is done.

14                So do you believe that there's any 

15   correlation between the legalizing a drug that 

16   impairs drivers and an increase in accidents?  

17   Fatal or otherwise.  

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Overall, yes, I 

19   do not want people to use vehicles when they are 

20   under the influence of any products that make 

21   them worse drivers.

22                So I think it's a national problem 

23   that we know we have with drinking and driving.  

24   I think it's a national problem we know we have 

25   with people using marijuana today, whether it's 


                                                               1949

 1   legal or not, and sometimes driving.  And I think 

 2   we know that there are other drugs that people 

 3   are prescribed or not prescribed that really 

 4   should stop them from being behind the wheel of a 

 5   car.  

 6                And that is actually why there is 

 7   quite a significant amount of resources committed 

 8   to in this law to make sure we have more trained 

 9   officers, local police, State Troopers who are 

10   trained in the skills to evaluate intoxicated 

11   drivers and get them off the roads.

12                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Thank you.  

13                Mr. President, through you, if the 

14   sponsor would continue to yield.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

16   the sponsor yield?

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

19   sponsor yields.

20                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Is there a readily 

21   available Breathalyzer for marijuana like there 

22   is alcohol?  

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Wouldn't that be 

24   great if there was?  But -- and that's one of the 

25   things that held us up, because there's not yet.  


                                                               1950

 1   There will be soon, is what we keep being told.  

 2   There are pilots taking -- being used in a 

 3   variety of states and in Canada, just to our 

 4   north.  

 5                And it would be excellent if it was 

 6   as simple as that.  But we don't have a device 

 7   like that yet that could sit in a police car and 

 8   be available to them.  It doesn't stop them from 

 9   evaluating you, pulling you over, giving you a 

10   field sobriety test, taking your keys away.  

11                And what we have committed to in 

12   this legislation is that we will be hiring some 

13   academic center to do an evaluation ourselves of 

14   what systems are out there and which ones do we 

15   think, as the State of New York, can work and 

16   start to use them here.

17                And I would guess that we'll start 

18   out with some system and a few years later 

19   they'll come out with a better one, and then 

20   we'll change to that one.

21                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Mr. President, 

22   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

23   yield.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

25   the sponsor yield?


                                                               1951

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 3   sponsor yields.  

 4                SENATOR AKSHAR:   So currently, how 

 5   does a police officer determine if a driver is in 

 6   fact impaired due to the use of marijuana?

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So they start out 

 8   by evaluating that they seem not to be driving 

 9   well.  Right?  They might be swerving.  They 

10   might observe them looking like they were asleep 

11   at the wheel.  They may observe them driving too 

12   fast -- although apparently that's not so much 

13   the problem in marijuana.  Actually, driving too 

14   slow may be the problem in marijuana -- and they 

15   then can then pull them over.

16                They can ask them to come out of the 

17   car, do a field sobriety test, I believe is the 

18   term.  And I think it's the same one whether it's 

19   alcohol or marijuana.  And if the person flunks 

20   the test, they then do not let them continue to 

21   drive.  

22                They arrest them, they bring them to 

23   the precinct.  Then what happens?  Then they can 

24   ask for a chemical test.  And based on the 

25   results of the chemical test, that might result 


                                                               1952

 1   in a court proceeding with various penalties, 

 2   depending on the level of the drug in your 

 3   system, whether this is the first time this has 

 4   happened or there have been multiple situations.  

 5   They could actually end up losing their license 

 6   for life.  

 7                And there's a variety of different 

 8   penalties, relatively parallel to what we see in 

 9   our DWI laws for alcohol.

10                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Mr. President, 

11   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

12   yield.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

14   the sponsor yield?

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

17   sponsor yields.

18                SENATOR AKSHAR:   When you refer to 

19   chemical test, what are you referring to?

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   It's a blood or 

21   urine test that they can ask for you to take.  

22   They can't make you take it unless there has been 

23   an actual serious injury or crash of the vehicle.

24                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Mr. President, 

25   through you, if the sponsor will continue to 


                                                               1953

 1   yield.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

 3   the sponsor yield? 

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 6   Senator yields.

 7                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Are there police 

 8   officers who have -- or who are foremost experts 

 9   in determining if a person is in fact operating a 

10   motor vehicle while using a drug?  

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Are there police 

12   officers --

13                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Let me -- let me 

14   see if I can do a better job articulating it.  

15                Are there some members of the police 

16   force that have additional certifications or 

17   additional expertise that allows them to 

18   determine whether or not someone is operating a 

19   motor vehicle under the influence of drugs?  

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.  New York 

21   State has a training program that they call DRE, 

22   and it has apparently been very effective at 

23   being able to provide these skills to a 

24   subuniverse of police officers and State 

25   Troopers.  


                                                               1954

 1                (Reading.)  In this legislation, we 

 2   are ensuring that reasonable costs incurred by 

 3   the State Police and the Department of Motor 

 4   Vehicles to implement the provisions of this 

 5   section of the Marijuana Regulation and Taxation 

 6   Act, to expand and enhance the drug recognition 

 7   expert training program and technologies utilized 

 8   in the process of maintaining road safety, the 

 9   Division of State Police shall, subject to 

10   available appropriations, increase the number of 

11   trained and certified drug recognition experts 

12   within the state and provide increased drug 

13   recognition awareness and advanced roadside 

14   impairment driving enforcement training under its 

15   drug recognition program.  

16                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Just on the bill 

17   for a second, Mr. President.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

19   Senator Akshar on the bill.

20                SENATOR AKSHAR:   I want to make 

21   sure that the people of this great state 

22   understand that there's a very clear difference 

23   between enforcing driving under the influence of 

24   alcohol and how members of law enforcement go 

25   about that, versus driving under the influence of 


                                                               1955

 1   a narcotic or driving with ability impaired.

 2                So for one to go through -- if you 

 3   suspected one was intoxicated because of alcohol, 

 4   you would issue standardized field sobriety 

 5   tests, bring them back to the station as you 

 6   explained, and ask them to submit to a chemical 

 7   test.

 8                In this space the world is very 

 9   different with drug recognition experts.  It's a 

10   very detailed 12-step process that takes an hour 

11   or an hour and a half.  

12                So I just want to make sure that we 

13   recognize and we understand that dealing with 

14   those who are under the influence of alcohol and 

15   operating a motor vehicle and those that are 

16   driving a motor vehicle under the influence of 

17   marijuana, cocaine, heroin, is completely 

18   different.

19                Would the sponsor yield for a few 

20   more questions?  

21                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

22   the sponsor yield? 

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Sure.  I was just 

24   getting comfortable.  Of course.

25                SENATOR AKSHAR:   My apologies, 


                                                               1956

 1   Senator.

 2                Does the sponsor know how many drug 

 3   recognition experts that we currently have in the 

 4   State of New York?

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   No.  Perhaps you 

 6   know.

 7                SENATOR AKSHAR:   We have 343, 

 8   Mr. President.

 9                If the sponsor would continue to 

10   yield.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

12   the sponsor yield?

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

15   sponsor yields.

16                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Does the sponsor 

17   know how many police officers are currently 

18   employed throughout the State of New York?

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   No.  But you 

20   know.

21                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Fifty-five 

22   thousand.  

23                Would the sponsor continue to yield.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

25   the sponsor yield?


                                                               1957

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 3   sponsor yields.

 4                SENATOR AKSHAR:   I can see there's 

 5   a great disparity between those -- the actual 

 6   amount of men and women employed in the 

 7   profession and those that have been specifically 

 8   trained as drug recognition experts.  

 9                I want to talk, if we may, for just 

10   a moment about this issue of DRE and funding.  I 

11   noted, Mr. President, that in the bill language 

12   it says -- and I think you had just mentioned 

13   this -- subject to available appropriation.  

14                Has the sponsor given any thought to 

15   how much money will be allocated for members of 

16   law enforcement across the state to address the 

17   DRE problem?

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So we're still 

19   negotiating within the budget process how much 

20   money will be available in the first year to 

21   expand DRE training and the number of officers.

22                But I think that the Governor is 

23   quite committed to making sure that we have the 

24   adequate resources and that we have the adequate 

25   trained officers.


                                                               1958

 1                What I think is important to 

 2   remember, it's not that there will suddenly be 

 3   people being stopped for being inebriated from 

 4   marijuana when it's never happened before.  One 

 5   of the realities of New York State is we're 

 6   already one of the largest marijuana economies in 

 7   the country, if not the largest marijuana 

 8   economy.  It's just we don't have a legal 

 9   program.  So people are using marijuana and 

10   driving.

11                Police are stopping people now and 

12   going through this process.  The only thing that 

13   I think will differ is now we will have more 

14   resources available with a better model for 

15   making sure police can pull over, meet the -- 

16   prove the standards, sometime soon have some kind 

17   of machine available.  

18                And so we will be ahead of where we 

19   are now, as opposed to there's no one using 

20   marijuana, there's no one driving with marijuana, 

21   and suddenly a date will start and there will be.  

22                So we might disagree over whether 

23   we've gone -- we have enough, whether we are 

24   investing enough.  And that's a healthy debate to 

25   have, and that's a debate that can result in more 


                                                               1959

 1   resources being put in if it doesn't appear that 

 2   we have adequate.  But I don't want anyone 

 3   listening to us to imagine that we're starting 

 4   today from a place where there is zero marijuana 

 5   being used by people who drive cars.  Because it 

 6   is being used, and they are driving throughout 

 7   the State of New York.

 8                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Thank you, 

 9   Senator.  

10                Mr. President, through you, if the 

11   sponsor would continue to yield.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

13   the sponsor yield?

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

16   sponsor yields.

17                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Another follow-up 

18   to this question.  

19                Have there been any discussions in 

20   terms of providing an estimate to the Executive 

21   about what the Majority thinks is an appropriate 

22   amount of money to invest in this issue of DRE?  

23   Has there been any discussion about -- you know, 

24   from the 343 that we're currently at, what that 

25   number should be as we move forward?


                                                               1960

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So I asked the 

 2   head of the State Troopers that question during 

 3   the budget hearings, and he told me he was quite 

 4   confident that they actually had the right 

 5   resources and skills and that they would be able 

 6   to train enough people and that he was not 

 7   concerned about this issue within legalization of 

 8   marijuana.

 9                Obviously I did not talk to every 

10   police department in the state.

11                SENATOR AKSHAR:   I totally 

12   understand that.

13                Mr. President, through you, if the 

14   sponsor -- 

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

16   Senator Akshar, you have reached your 30-minute 

17   limit.  If you could wrap up with one or two 

18   questions, that would be great.

19                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Thank you.  

20                Mr. President, through you, if the 

21   sponsor would continue to yield.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

23   the sponsor yield?

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.  

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 


                                                               1961

 1   sponsor yields.

 2                SENATOR AKSHAR:   When you say the 

 3   State Police, the head of the State Police, I'm 

 4   assuming you mean the acting superintendent.

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 6                SENATOR AKSHAR:   And it was his 

 7   thought that he had what he needed in terms of 

 8   resources currently in terms of funding to 

 9   continue to train members of the State Police?

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   He said he was 

11   confident that he would have the resources to 

12   train more officers in DRE and to be able to help 

13   train other police officers who were not State 

14   Troopers and was not concerned that there would 

15   not be resources available.

16                Again, I didn't say "Did you talk to 

17   the Governor on X date, did you guys talk a 

18   dollar amount?"  But I think, speaking now, here, 

19   the commitment is here from the Assembly, the 

20   Senate, and the Governor to make sure that this 

21   program works.  

22                And there is going to be new 

23   revenues generated by this program, and a 

24   specific allocation, a recognition that the costs 

25   of a legalized program in New York State will be 


                                                               1962

 1   able to be drawn from the revenues that you get 

 2   from a legalized system.  So I'm really not 

 3   worried that over time, if it's determined we 

 4   need more, that we will be able to be get more.  

 5   We will be able to get more.

 6                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Mr. President, 

 7   through you.  On the bill for just a moment, I'll 

 8   ask two follow-up questions, and then I'll 

 9   conclude.  But on the bill for a moment.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

11   Senator Akshar on the bill.

12                SENATOR AKSHAR:   I would just note 

13   for the sponsor's -- you know, as you continue to 

14   have these conversations, there are 5,000 

15   Troopers in this state.  There are 50,000 other 

16   members of law enforcement.  

17                And speaking from my own experiences 

18   as a former member, it's important for local 

19   police departments, sheriff's offices throughout 

20   this great state, to have that resource available 

21   in-house or internally, in which you would not 

22   have to wait for a Trooper to come from 

23   wherever it is that he or she was coming from in 

24   order to do the drug evaluation.  So just 

25   something to think about as you move forward.


                                                               1963

 1                Mr. President, through you, if the 

 2   sponsor would yield for a question.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Could 

 4   you consolidate those two questions into one?  

 5                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Yeah.  You know 

 6   what, I'll ask one more question and then I'll go 

 7   on the bill, how about that.  Would you be okay 

 8   with that?  

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Sure.

10                Senator, will you yield for a 

11   question?  

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

14   sponsor yields.

15                SENATOR AKSHAR:   How many inmates 

16   are currently in state correctional facilities 

17   because of marijuana offenses?  I'm talking about 

18   the top count currently incarcerated in the state 

19   prison system.

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We know it's a 

21   very small percentage of people in the prison 

22   population for marijuana charges.  

23                But I don't think we have a number 

24   here for you right now.  Sorry.

25                SENATOR AKSHAR:   That's okay.  


                                                               1964

 1   Thank you.  

 2                On the bill, Mr. President.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

 4   Senator Akshar on the bill.

 5                SENATOR AKSHAR:   I have a deep 

 6   respect for the sponsor.  And my opposition to 

 7   this bill doesn't affect that respect and 

 8   admiration that I have for Senator Krueger.

 9                I know that she's worked incredibly 

10   hard over the last seven years to get to the 

11   point we are today, regardless of how I feel 

12   about it and how she feels about it.

13                I just want to use my time to 

14   provide a voice for millions of New Yorkers who I 

15   think were left out of the process.  So many of 

16   them, their opinions, their wisdom, their 

17   participation were ignored.  And these New 

18   Yorkers will be affected by this law just the 

19   same as anybody else.

20                There are stacks and stacks of memos 

21   of opposition from a whole wide spectrum and 

22   range of people who represent millions of 

23   New Yorkers.  I think everyone in the chamber 

24   understands the cost of this legislation and how 

25   it will affect local communities.  And that truth 


                                                               1965

 1   I think is known by many people.  But I feel like 

 2   we are ignoring some of those issues.  

 3                What else do we know?  That even in 

 4   the best-case scenario, we're making life 

 5   extremely difficult for the people that are 

 6   charged with protecting and serving our 

 7   community.  Whether we agree or disagree, we know 

 8   that fatal accidents in Colorado and Washington 

 9   have increased.  And if you look at neighboring 

10   states where marijuana is not legal, that is not 

11   the case.  

12                We know that unemployment has risen, 

13   hospitalizations surrounding marijuana, teen 

14   suicide, mental health issues, all have gone up.

15                And the safety of our roads in terms 

16   of the DRE issue, as we discussed, is of utmost 

17   importance to me.  We know that driving under the 

18   influence of THC cannot be enforced the same way 

19   as drunk driving.  At best, a DRE can enforce -- 

20   is going to have a very difficult time enforcing 

21   this new law.  

22                We talked about gummy bears and 

23   odorless ways to ingest marijuana going to make 

24   life very, very difficult for DREs and 

25   prosecutors.  


                                                               1966

 1                We also know that there are 

 2   55,000 police officers across the state.  Only 

 3   343 of them are drug recognition experts.  There 

 4   are significant public safety costs to 

 5   communities -- emergency services -- and which I 

 6   think will cost hundreds of millions of dollars 

 7   as we move through this process.

 8                We spend $40 million a year in 

 9   ensuring that we try to stop people from smoking 

10   and vaping, and I'm afraid that this bill will 

11   act counterproductive to that.

12                We of course just banned flavored 

13   vapes, vaping products, because we know that it 

14   makes it more attractive for young people to 

15   smoke.  And I think, again, we're going in a 

16   different direction here.  

17                I firmly believe that we are setting 

18   up communities to fail.  We talk all the time 

19   about unintended negative consequences of the 

20   misguided policies that so often come out of this 

21   chamber, and how these policies end up doing more 

22   harm than good for the people of this great 

23   state.  And today I offer -- respectfully, of 

24   course -- that we all know what the negative 

25   consequences of this legislation will be.  But 


                                                               1967

 1   there are some who choose to simply ignore it.  

 2                If you vote yes today, you're 

 3   choosing to ignore that.  And I would kindly 

 4   offer that the willful ignorance renders those 

 5   negative consequences intentional, Mr. President.  

 6   The lives lost, the damage done to communities 

 7   and families are preventable and avoidable.  We 

 8   know this, but we ignore it anyways.  This is not 

 9   opinion, this is not conjecture, this is not 

10   politics.  These in fact are facts.  

11                I am afraid that if you're voting 

12   yes today, you are putting politics before 

13   people.  I for one am not going to support 

14   something that sets our communities up to fail.  

15   Today I choose to put people over politics.

16                Mr. President, when it comes time, 

17   I'll be voting in the negative.  Thank you.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

19   Boyle on the bill.

20                SENATOR BOYLE:   Mr. President, on 

21   the bill.

22                I believe today we're making a huge 

23   mistake.  When I was first elected to the State 

24   Senate nine years ago, I took office and one of 

25   the first things I did was being named the 


                                                               1968

 1   chairperson of the Heroin and Opioid Task Force.  

 2   This was at a time no one was really paying 

 3   attention to the heroin and opioid epidemic that 

 4   was coursing through New York State.  

 5                As chairman, we held 18 hearings 

 6   around New York State.  Hundreds and hundreds of 

 7   people came to testify.  And just about without a 

 8   doubt, every single one of them said their 

 9   gateway drug to harder drugs was marijuana.

10                I'm not saying everyone that smokes 

11   marijuana obviously ends up going to heroin.  

12   Certainly not true.  But it is a gateway drug for 

13   millions of people.

14                What do we see?  I want to associate 

15   myself with the remarks of my colleague.  Carnage 

16   on the streets of states that legalized 

17   marijuana.  Increased medical costs.  We have a 

18   situation where we're going to have people going 

19   to work stoned, and the resulting accidents are 

20   going to cause a tremendous number of injuries -- 

21   and certainly cost lives, I believe.

22                I know a lot has been talked about 

23   here about the millions of dollars of tax revenue 

24   we're going to get.  I think we're not going to 

25   make any money at all.  We're going to lose money 


                                                               1969

 1   as a state.  The first 10 lawsuits that come 

 2   about as a result of this bill is going to wipe 

 3   out any tax revenue we're going to get.

 4                It is a huge mistake.  We need to 

 5   rethink this.  And it is being done for political 

 6   expedience.

 7                There was a very strong statement 

 8   against legalizing marijuana by an individual 

 9   just a couple of years ago.  He said that this is 

10   definitely a gateway drug and he does not support 

11   the legalization of recreational marijuana.  That 

12   person's name was Governor Andrew Cuomo.  

13                The only thing that changed between 

14   then and now is he had a primary by a woman named 

15   Cynthia Nixon who made legalization of marijuana 

16   her trademark issue.  And suddenly, oh, maybe 

17   it's not a gateway drug anymore, maybe we need to 

18   think about this.

19                Obviously we've seen the Governor 

20   make many decisions recently based on politics, 

21   maybe not the best science, the best ideas for 

22   protecting New Yorkers.  But we need to step back 

23   and think about this, because it's my firm belief 

24   that the states that have legalized marijuana are 

25   going to start rolling it back, and not the other 


                                                               1970

 1   way around.

 2                I strongly support the idea of 

 3   voting against this bill, and I urge all of my 

 4   colleagues to join me in voting in the negative.  

 5                Thank you, Mr. President.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 7   Palumbo.

 8                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

 9   Mr. President.  Would the sponsor yield, please, 

10   for a few questions.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

12   the sponsor yield?

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

15   sponsor yields.  

16                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

17   Senator Krueger.  How are you?  

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Fine.

19                SENATOR PALUMBO:   I'd like to ask 

20   you a few questions, if I may, on some of the 

21   specific provisions of this bill.  

22                So regarding at page 67, Section 

23   127, there is a heading -- while you get to it, 

24   that I'll just -- I'll read the section that I'd 

25   like to ask a question on.  That's "Protections 


                                                               1971

 1   for the use of cannabis; unlawful discriminations 

 2   prohibited."  Indicating no person, registered 

 3   organization, licensee or their agent shall be 

 4   subject to arrest, prosecution or penalty in any 

 5   manner, or denied any right or privilege, 

 6   including but not limited to civil liability or 

 7   disciplinary action by a business or occupational 

 8   or professional licensing board or office, solely 

 9   for conduct permitted under this chapter.

10                Now, generally in that regard, 

11   regarding that section, was this intended to 

12   create a new protected class, I guess?  When we 

13   talk about discrimination, just that word has 

14   very significant legal meaning.  So could you 

15   describe for me whether or not this becomes 

16   almost a protected-class situation?  

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   One second, 

18   because we think we're talking Labor Law here.

19                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Certainly.  

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So to clarify 

21   that, you know, that you can't discriminate in 

22   labor law for people who are involved with 

23   marijuana products, including with unemployment 

24   benefits.  One second.

25                And when we create protected classes 


                                                               1972

 1   in New York State, it's in Human Rights Law.  And 

 2   this is not Human Rights Law.

 3                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

 4   Senator.  Would you continue to yield for another 

 5   question, please.  

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Will 

 7   the sponsor yield?

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

10   sponsor yields.

11                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

12   Senator.  

13                And so in that regard, then, if 

14   someone were to violate this provision -- say, an 

15   employer -- they would not be subject to a 

16   lawsuit for discriminating based upon that 

17   paragraph, if I'm hearing you correctly?  

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So would you mind 

19   if I asked my colleague Diane Savino, who I go to 

20   for Labor Law questions all the time, if she 

21   would answer?  

22                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Absolutely, 

23   Senator --

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.

25                SENATOR PALUMBO:   -- I wouldn't 


                                                               1973

 1   mind.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 3   Savino.  Will you yield for a question, Senator 

 4   Savino?  

 5                SENATOR SAVINO:   Yes.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Ask the 

 7   question again?

 8                SENATOR SAVINO:   Senator Palumbo, 

 9   the language that exists in the MRTA was also 

10   previously present in the existing Compassionate 

11   Care Act when we adopted that in 2014.  And it 

12   was in recognition of the fact that we were 

13   creating a benefit for the people of the State of 

14   New York that could be considered illegal by the 

15   federal -- was considered illegal by the federal 

16   government and could be in conflict with existing 

17   either Labor Law or policies and procedures that 

18   employers had in place.  

19                And we did -- and also applying it 

20   to potential domestic relations law and family 

21   custody cases or divorces.  So we wanted to 

22   create a protection for people who were using a 

23   product in the State of New York that had now 

24   been determined to be legal in the four walls of 

25   our state.  And that language is now carried over 


                                                               1974

 1   into the MRTA.

 2                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

 3   Senator.  

 4                And would either yourself or 

 5   Senator Krueger -- or the sponsor yield for 

 6   another question?

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 8   Krueger, will you yield?

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   If it's labor, 

10   let Senator Savino take it.

11                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Well, you did 

12   mention -- I was just going to ask you, Senator 

13   Savino, possibly lower -- you mentioned the 

14   Domestic Relations Law, so maybe I can ask you 

15   the question that I was going to ask a little bit 

16   later.  

17                Further down in that same section, 

18   paragraph 5, line 51:  "No person may be denied 

19   custody of or visitation or parenting time with a 

20   minor under the Family Court Act, Domestic 

21   Relations Law or Social Services Law, solely for 

22   conduct permitted under this chapter, including 

23   but not limited to Sections 222.05 and 222.15."  

24                So my question in that regard is as 

25   far as that provision is concerned, when you're 


                                                               1975

 1   dealing with a custody or visitation issue and 

 2   you're dealing with the best interests of a child 

 3   in the Family Court or Supreme Court, a factor 

 4   that can be considered certainly is someone's 

 5   excessive alcohol use.  We're specifically 

 6   excluding cannabis use.  Am I reading this 

 7   accurately?  

 8                SENATOR SAVINO:   I believe you're 

 9   reading it correctly.  But it would also -- you 

10   utilized the term "excessive," and that would be 

11   the same in this instance.  

12                So in my experience -- through you, 

13   Mr. President -- in the days of my early career 

14   as a caseworker in the child welfare system, you 

15   could not use the use of alcohol against a parent 

16   in a child protective service proceeding or in a 

17   custody proceeding unless it was excessive and 

18   put the child at risk to life and/or health or 

19   was not in the best interests of the child.  

20                Marijuana was illegal then -- it's 

21   illegal till today, until we pass it and make it 

22   legal in the State of New York -- so it would be 

23   used against a parent in a discriminatory fashion 

24   in that hearing.  Once we legalize it now, it 

25   would be akin to alcohol.  So if a parent is 


                                                               1976

 1   using marijuana legally in the State of New York, 

 2   but not excessively, where it would impair their 

 3   ability to parent appropriately, it shouldn't be 

 4   used against them.

 5                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you --

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   And if I might, 

 7   the continuation of that paragraph in the law is 

 8   exactly as Senator Savino just said:  Unless it 

 9   is in the best interests of the child and the 

10   child's physical, mental or emotional condition 

11   has been impaired.  So I believe it is an exact 

12   parallel to what she was describing with alcohol.

13                (To Senator Savino)  Thank you.

14                SENATOR PALUMBO:   And I appreciate 

15   that, Senators.  And would either of you yield 

16   for another question?  

17                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   No, no, 

18   no.  So what we'll do is you'll direct your 

19   questions to Senator Krueger, she's the sponsor.  

20   And if she decides to yield to Senator Savino, 

21   she can do that.

22                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Got it.  

23                Senator Krueger, would you yield for 

24   another question, please.  Through you, 

25   Mr. President.  


                                                               1977

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

 2   the sponsor yield?

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We're 

 4   tag-teaming, Mr. President.  Yes, of course.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 6   Senator yields.

 7                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

 8   Senator.  I appreciate your patience in that 

 9   regard.  

10                And so continuing on in that same 

11   section, "For the purposes of this section, this 

12   determination cannot be based solely on whether, 

13   when, and how often a person uses cannabis 

14   without separate evidence of harm."  

15                So my question to you is under this 

16   bill, someone can keep five pounds of marijuana 

17   in their home, and they use it often.  Without 

18   any additional evidence that may not be revealed 

19   in an investigation, the fact that they smoke 

20   pot, use pot, do whatever they may do with 

21   cannabis every single day, if it were alcohol 

22   would clearly be just indicative of harm 

23   intuitively.  

24                It seems as though that language 

25   prohibits that type of a situation when 


                                                               1978

 1   considering the best interests of the child and 

 2   the parent or guardian is using cannabis.  So 

 3   could you please rectify that for me?  

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   First off, there 

 5   is a limit of how much marijuana you can have 

 6   available at any given time.  And the five pounds 

 7   that you're using as an example is actually 

 8   within the law for home-grown.  

 9                So it's a fascinating education -- 

10   I'm sorry, Mr. President, it will take me a 

11   minute or two, because I don't actually know that 

12   much about growing or using marijuana since I am 

13   not a user and don't wish to be.

14                If you home-grow, the law says you 

15   can home-grow up to six plants, three fully adult 

16   and three in growth at the same time.  The 

17   discussion came up what does one plant weigh and 

18   how much marijuana do you get out of it.  And we 

19   learned that the vast majority of the plant is 

20   not usable as a drug.  The only part that's 

21   usable as a drug are the flowers, and some people 

22   put the leaves in a tea.  But mostly it's sticks 

23   and stems and the roots system.  

24                So that if you grow a plant and it 

25   comes to adult maturity and you pull it out of 


                                                               1979

 1   the ground and you put it in your garage, it 

 2   might be several pounds.  It's not several pounds 

 3   of usable marijuana, it's several pounds of 

 4   what's going to go in the garbage can at some 

 5   point.  So the five-pound example wasn't actually 

 6   a great example.  

 7                But you might have several ounces of 

 8   usable marijuana in your home.  That isn't 

 9   evidence that you're using it everyday.  That's 

10   not evidence that you're using it at all, 

11   actually.  So just like, I guess, in some 

12   people's houses they have cases and cases of wine 

13   or beer or other spirits, that's not evidence of 

14   anything other than they have a lot of bottles of 

15   liquor in their home.

16                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

17   Senator.  Would you yield for another question, 

18   please.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

20   the sponsor yield?

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

23   sponsor yields.

24                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

25   Senator.  And I see here in the Article 222, 


                                                               1980

 1   page 85, that it does not include the mature 

 2   stalks of the plant, fiber produced from the 

 3   stalks, oil or cake made from the plant.  So in 

 4   that regard, there are certainly some parts of 

 5   the plant that are excluded.  

 6                Can you just tell us how you came up 

 7   with five pounds or how either yourself or the 

 8   individuals that ultimately decided on that 

 9   language?  

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   It was an 

11   estimate that a variety of people came to based 

12   on visualizing -- let's say your three plants 

13   grew at the same time, were harvested at the same 

14   time, and were sitting in a bag in your backyard 

15   or your garage at the same time.

16                So apparently plants can grow to 

17   different sizes, depending on the strain of the 

18   product, whether you're growing under grow lights 

19   or under good or bad circumstances.  I'm fairly 

20   confident my plants would be very small and very 

21   weak; I cannot grow anything.  

22                (Laughter.)

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm sure Senator 

24   Lanza's plants would be huge and beautiful.

25                (Laughter.)


                                                               1981

 1                (Off-mic exchange with 

 2   Senator Savino.)  

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   A fully mature 

 4   plant is about 5 feet tall.  I didn't know that.  

 5                Thank you (to Senator Savino).

 6                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you.  Thank 

 7   you, Senator.  Will the sponsor yield for one 

 8   more question.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

10   the Senator yield? 

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   the 

13   Senator yields.

14                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you --

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Although if we 

16   stay on horticulture, I'm going to be in big 

17   trouble.

18                (Laughter.)

19                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Yes, you might 

20   need a green thumb to get to a sizable plant.  

21                But I guess the bottom line is the 

22   language says five pounds of cannabis.  So that 

23   could be flower, that could be just the actual 

24   smokeable or usable part.  And that is of concern 

25   to me.  


                                                               1982

 1                But however, actually, if I can 

 2   withdraw any offer for a question and actually 

 3   ask a question on a little bit different area, 

 4   and we'll be done with Section 127.

 5                At line 21 it says "State or local 

 6   law enforcement agencies shall not cooperate with 

 7   or provide assistance to the government of the 

 8   United States or any agency thereof in enforcing 

 9   the Federal Controlled Substances Act solely for 

10   actions consistent with this chapter, except as 

11   pursuant to a valid court order."  

12                So my question to you is, why did 

13   you feel that was necessary to have in this bill?

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Because marijuana 

15   is still illegal at the federal level, and this 

16   law is to make it legal in the State of New York.  

17   So we need to do that.

18                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Would the sponsor 

19   yield for another question.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

21   the sponsor yield?

22                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

24   sponsor yields.

25                SENATOR PALUMBO:   So, Senator, 


                                                               1983

 1   other than the fact that I don't know if this is 

 2   necessarily constitutional -- if it's 

 3   enforceable, what if a law enforcement agency 

 4   decides, because someone's, say, on federal 

 5   parole, which prohibits, with narcotic 

 6   conditions, use of marijuana.  What if a law 

 7   enforcement officer actually does assist a fellow 

 8   law enforcement agency, as they're sworn to do?  

 9   What's the sanction?  

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So you're on 

11   federal parole --

12                SENATOR PALUMBO:   And they're 

13   requesting a local officer provide them --

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   And they're 

15   requesting a local officer to assist --

16                (Overtalk.)

17                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Yes, ma'am.

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So we think that 

19   if the federal government assigns some kind of 

20   warrant and goes to our courts and says, You need 

21   to assist us, that we probably have to do that.  

22                But we don't want a situation where 

23   people are voluntarily heading down that road and 

24   going after people because the federal government 

25   is asking.  That should go through a correct 


                                                               1984

 1   process here in the courts.

 2                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Through you, 

 3   Mr. President, will the sponsor yield for another 

 4   question, please.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

 6   the sponsor yield?

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 9   sponsor yields.

10                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

11   Senator.  So in that regard, I guess the specific 

12   question is, however, if they choose to act 

13   contrary to this language, what happens to the 

14   police officer?  Is there some sort of a penalty?  

15   Is it misconduct?  Is there a fine or something 

16   else?  

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   No, we do not 

18   deal with any kind of penalties or fines in the 

19   law, so I don't think that we would be doing 

20   anything to the police officer.  

21                Although it's an interesting issue, 

22   only because it's somewhat parallel to concerns 

23   that various communities have had around ICE 

24   enforcement over the last few years, where we've 

25   established local law about not cooperating with 


                                                               1985

 1   ICE in going after people that they may believe 

 2   don't have legal status.  But we do not, in most 

 3   cases in New York, want our police to be 

 4   cooperative in those situations.  

 5                So I think it's a fairly parallel 

 6   situation.  And every once in a while you hear a 

 7   story coming out and something gets resolved or 

 8   not.  But I don't think it's been a huge issue.  

 9   And I don't think it's been a real issue in any 

10   of the other 15 states that have legal marijuana, 

11   even though they're under the same federal law as 

12   we are.

13                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Through you, 

14   Mr. President, will the sponsor yield for another 

15   question, please.  

16                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

17   the sponsor yield?

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

20   sponsor yields.  

21                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

22   Senator Krueger.

23                Now, moving on, regarding the Public 

24   Health Law schedule, the -- marijuana was part of 

25   the Public Health Law schedule, 3306, I think it 


                                                               1986

 1   is.  That was ultimately needed -- yes, in 

 2   Public Health Law 3306.  It was removed, and now 

 3   moved into at least the definition of a drug 

 4   under the Vehicle and Traffic Law.  Is that 

 5   accurate?  

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Okay.

 7                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Okay, thank you.  

 8   And I know there was some concern -- would the 

 9   sponsor yield for another question, please.  

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

11   the sponsor yield?

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

14   sponsor yields.

15                SENATOR PALUMBO:   And I know there 

16   was some concern from the District Attorneys 

17   Association because under New York law, to 

18   prosecute someone for driving while ability 

19   impaired by drugs, it needed to be on that 

20   Schedule I.  And since it was removed, it needed 

21   to be somewhere else in the law, otherwise you'd 

22   not be able to prosecute someone for using 

23   marijuana.

24                So in that regard, there's another 

25   section of law -- and it probably is more 


                                                               1987

 1   commonly referred to as the Dram Shop Law.  

 2   That's where someone is responsible for providing 

 3   someone with alcohol.  In some sections, if you 

 4   serve a visibly intoxicated person, you can be 

 5   liable for their negligence.

 6                In Section 3 of that, General 

 7   Obligations Law 11-103, there's compensation for 

 8   injury caused by the illegal sale or providing 

 9   controlled substances.  And specifically, the 

10   term in Section 5, "'Controlled substance,' when 

11   used in this section, means and includes any 

12   substance listed in Section 3306 of the Public 

13   Health Law."  

14                And that is a rub, because I do not 

15   see anywhere in this bill -- and if you could 

16   direct me to it if it's here -- that now, if 

17   someone provides, for example, even to a minor -- 

18   there's another section where if you have a house 

19   party, you get a bunch of teenagers drunk, one of 

20   them drives and kills someone, that's 

21   obviously -- the prohibition and the deterrence 

22   is you don't have parties like that because these 

23   kids will go out and hurt someone.  

24                Now, by removing this from the 

25   Public Health Law, there is no provision for 


                                                               1988

 1   marijuana.  So right now you can do so with 

 2   impunity unless that's corrected.  And please 

 3   direct me, if you can, to a different section if 

 4   it's addressed.

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm thinking.  So 

 6   I don't think it would be with impunity, because 

 7   you're not supposed to be selling or giving 

 8   marijuana to people under 21.  And you used the 

 9   example of the kids are at your house and you're 

10   letting them use the marijuana or they -- that 

11   they either had themselves or you bought it for 

12   them, is that the implication, that you bought 

13   your kids marijuana and let them have a party and 

14   share it with their friends?  Is that the 

15   example?  

16                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Through you, 

17   Mr. President.  Yes, you can -- you can either 

18   buy it for them or they can drink at your house.  

19                And there's one section that's for 

20   commercial distribution for bars and restaurants, 

21   and then there's another section that's really 

22   for social hosts, that you can't give minors 

23   alcohol.  

24                And so my concern is that, yes, you 

25   would be in violation of this act, subject to -- 


                                                               1989

 1   I think it's a $200 fine, and that's it.  So if I 

 2   as a parent let my kids use cannabis and 

 3   marijuana at my home, and their friends, and even 

 4   my own children do it, I would be personally 

 5   liable if it were alcohol.  And, prior to this 

 6   bill, I would also be personally liable because 

 7   marijuana was listed in Public Health Law 3306.  

 8                So there are additional 

 9   ramifications that I hope, Senator Krueger, I 

10   hope you'd be willing to address that and clean 

11   up that loophole.  Because since it was removed 

12   from that Public Health Law schedule, there is no 

13   alternative, like we prepared and you crafted for 

14   the Vehicle and Traffic Law regarding DWI or 

15   driving-while-ability-impaired prosecutions.

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So again, it 

17   would not be for selling to an under age 21 -- 

18   you know, with alcohol you used the example of 

19   it's a bar or a restaurant.  Since there won't be 

20   bars or restaurants that are selling marijuana -- 

21   or if they were, they wouldn't be able to legally 

22   sell to an under-21, so that would be a 

23   violation.  

24                So again, I think we're talking 

25   about a specific storyline that you are allowing 


                                                               1990

 1   someone under 21 to socially consume, with your 

 2   knowledge, and you are over 21 and they are under 

 3   21.  And the question is, is there any penalty.

 4                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

 5   Senator Krueger.

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   And we're still 

 7   looking, because I'm not -- I hear you and I 

 8   understand the issue.  (Pause.)

 9                So -- all right, so we do understand 

10   the question, and we think there are a couple of 

11   different answers.  And you're right, I think we 

12   probably can make things clearer over time.

13                But, one, if you are giving the 

14   product away, my counsel points out that that is 

15   the equivalent of selling it, and it would be the 

16   same penalty whether they sold it to a minor or 

17   whether they gave it to a minor, even in a 

18   private-home situation.

19                Then there would also be the putting 

20   a child at risk, and there are penalties for 

21   that.

22                So it may not be exactly the 

23   parallel with alcohol in state law, but there 

24   would be ways to penalize whoever was giving away 

25   marijuana to under-21-year-olds.


                                                               1991

 1                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

 2   Senator.

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.

 4                SENATOR PALUMBO:  Through you, 

 5   Mr. President, if the sponsor yields for another 

 6   question.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Will 

 8   the sponsor yield?

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

11   sponsor yields.

12                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

13   Senator.  And I do appreciate that.  And at a 

14   former period of time I was a narcotics 

15   prosecutor, and that's something that I certainly 

16   get that -- the aspects of that, and that would 

17   typically be for controlled substances.  But the 

18   trial lawyer in me also says that we've got this 

19   one section of the General Obligations Law, is 

20   such impairment "by unlawfully selling to or 

21   unlawfully assisting or procuring a controlled 

22   substance for such person."  So it's really even 

23   gifts.  

24                And under the -- as you certainly 

25   know, under the Penal Law, a gift, giving a 


                                                               1992

 1   controlled substance is the same as selling, as 

 2   you just mentioned.  

 3                So I have one more area, if I may, 

 4   just to ask a few quick questions on.  And that 

 5   is on page 86, regarding searching vehicles.  

 6   There are some limitations now regarding this, 

 7   that a police officer may not use as the sole 

 8   grounds to search a vehicle the fact that they 

 9   smell burnt cannabis.  Is that accurate?  Is that 

10   your understanding?  

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Just -- I'm 

12   sorry, so smelling burnt cannabis is not in its 

13   own right proof of ... (Pause.)

14                The smell of burning cannabis is not 

15   a basis for searching the vehicle because 

16   cannabis is no longer contraband.  It can be 

17   evidence of, along with other things, of the 

18   belief that cannabis has recently been used by 

19   the people in the vehicle.

20                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

21   Senator.  

22                And through you, Mr. President, will 

23   the sponsor yield for another question, please.  

24                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

25   the sponsor yield?


                                                               1993

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 3   sponsor yields.

 4                SENATOR PALUMBO:   And, Senator, in 

 5   that regard, as we go further down on page 86, 

 6   line 50, that essentially they cannot use that as 

 7   their sole basis.  But if it's to investigate, 

 8   from what I understand, a possible driving while 

 9   ability-impaired by drugs, then they can use that 

10   to further investigate.  

11                However, we turn to the next page, 

12   paragraph 87:  "During such investigations the 

13   odor of burnt cannabis shall not provide probable 

14   cause to search any area of a vehicle that is not 

15   readily accessible to the driver and reasonably 

16   likely to contain evidence relevant to the 

17   driver's condition."  

18                Can you tell me why you limited 

19   search or the scope of the search area?  

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.  It's 

21   intended to make it clear that if there's the 

22   odor of burnt cannabis coming out of the trunk, 

23   that is not evidence that the person driving the 

24   vehicle was involved with recently using 

25   cannabis.  So they're two different questions.  


                                                               1994

 1                And since having cannabis or the 

 2   remains of cannabis in one's trunk is no longer 

 3   illegal, it shouldn't really be relevant.

 4                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Will the sponsor 

 5   yield for another question, please.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

 7   the sponsor yield?

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I shall.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

10   sponsor yields.  

11                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

12   Senator.

13                And now equating this, though, to 

14   alcohol, if there was a DWI stop and you saw 

15   maybe a bottle of vodka in the back seat or in 

16   the trunk you smelled what smelled like alcohol, 

17   that might possibly be indicative and further 

18   consistent with your investigation.  That might 

19   also aid law enforcement in reaching the proper 

20   conclusion as to whether or not someone's been 

21   driving while ability-impaired.  

22                So can you rectify that for me, 

23   please?  

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I would just 

25   advise that having a bottle of vodka in your 


                                                               1995

 1   trunk isn't evidence of drinking and driving.  So 

 2   it's parallel to cannabis in your trunk doesn't 

 3   mean you were using cannabis during the course of 

 4   driving or in a recent time period.  And having 

 5   alcohol in your trunk doesn't mean that the 

 6   person up-front was drinking either.

 7                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

 8   Senator Krueger.

 9                On the bill, please, Mr. President.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

11   Palumbo on the bill.

12                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

13   Mr. President.

14                And now, in fact, in that regard, in 

15   two of my cars you can get to the trunk from the 

16   back seat.  You just have to pull the seat down, 

17   or even the little section in the middle of the 

18   seat, if you want to store skis or something 

19   along those lines.  So there is access to the 

20   trunk from anywhere in the vehicle.

21                And some of these issues -- and we 

22   understand and I think it's certainly relevant 

23   that there were goals regarding keeping the 

24   investigation narrow, I should say, to just 

25   specifically what's relevant and what may 


                                                               1996

 1   actually be usable evidence, so to speak, 

 2   regarding someone's driving while 

 3   ability-impaired by cannabis.

 4                But you know, people are smart and 

 5   they know better.  People ditch stuff when police 

 6   show up.  They throw things out the window.  They 

 7   throw things in the trunk.  So in that regard, 

 8   there is something called the automobile 

 9   exception in the law, where if you find 

10   contraband or evidence of some contraband, then 

11   ultimately that would give you the opportunity to 

12   search a vehicle.  

13                If you have reason to inquire that 

14   someone has been using drugs in an area that is 

15   mobile, like a vehicle -- a small vehicle, it's 

16   not like it's a tractor-trailer -- I think you 

17   should have access to that entire vehicle for the 

18   purposes of a search.  Because if it discloses 

19   some sort of -- some contraband, like -- or 

20   something that -- or cannabis now, it's not 

21   contraband anymore, if this passes, which we 

22   assume it will -- then that is relevant to the 

23   investigation, because now let's couple this -- 

24   because I've handled many of these on both sides 

25   of the aisle.  Let's couple this with the ability 


                                                               1997

 1   to keep our streets safe and prosecute driving 

 2   while ability-impaired by drugs.  Because under 

 3   1194 in the Vehicle and Traffic Law, you can only 

 4   compel someone to take a chemical test in the 

 5   event there's serious physical injury or death to 

 6   someone other than the driver.  

 7                So an occupant in a one-car crash, 

 8   another vehicle, then you can get a warrant.  In 

 9   all other situations, you can't.

10                So you now have someone who can 

11   refuse to take your field sobriety test and 

12   just -- for example, and this is just from my 

13   experience of many years as a prosecutor dealing 

14   with many of these, some involving serious injury 

15   or death and some of them not -- most of them 

16   not.  

17                The indicators of driving while 

18   ability-impaired by drugs are very different.  In 

19   fact, there's a battery of three tests that a 

20   police officer gives for DWI -- usually walk and 

21   turn, horizontal-gaze nystagmus, and the 

22   one-legged stand.  Those three together have a 

23   fairly high degree of probability of the result.

24                For drug recognition experts, DREs, 

25   it's about 10 different -- very different 


                                                               1998

 1   types -- vertical nystagmus, all these different 

 2   tests they perform in order to get to that 

 3   conclusion.  

 4                Now, if you're pulled over, you 

 5   don't have to take those.  So just regarding that 

 6   search issue, if there's someone that you've got, 

 7   you don't have a DRE -- there's only 

 8   300-and-some-odd of them in the entire state.  

 9   They need to get there within a reasonable period 

10   of time, so you have just a police officer who's 

11   making some assumptions, maybe they have a verbal 

12   admission.  Having drugs in the car would 

13   possibly aid in the prosecution.  So my point is 

14   this --

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

16   Palumbo, you're out of time.  If you could wrap 

17   it up in the next 30 seconds.

18                SENATOR PALUMBO:   I certainly will, 

19   Mr. President.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Thank 

21   you, sir.

22                SENATOR PALUMBO:   My point is this.  

23   That this is, without an actual valid test that 

24   exists right now, like the handheld Alco-Sensor, 

25   like a Breathalyzer, other than -- it's somewhat 


                                                               1999

 1   invasive to take a blood test.  The urine test 

 2   doesn't have a very high probability of showing 

 3   level of impairment, so blood is right now 

 4   basically the only gold standard that we have.  

 5                So without that, this is making our 

 6   streets dangerous.  And to do this now, when we 

 7   feel we have to do it -- I read something today 

 8   that drug overdose deaths since 2019, in a little 

 9   over 20 years are going to surpass, this year, 

10   the total number of casualties across all major 

11   U.S. wars.  Two hundred years of wars.  And we're 

12   struggling now with depression, with a pandemic.  

13                I think this is a bad idea.  We 

14   don't need to do this now.  Let's let this roll 

15   itself out slowly, let's get some sort of a 

16   chemical test, and then we can revisit then.  

17                Thank you, Mr. President.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

19   Borrello.

20                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you, 

21   Mr. President.

22                Would the sponsor yield for a 

23   question.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

25   the sponsor yield?


                                                               2000

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Happily.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 3   sponsor yields.

 4                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Senator Krueger, 

 5   thank you for your endurance today.  Appreciate 

 6   it.

 7                As you and I have discussed, I am 

 8   opposed to this bill and to legalization of 

 9   recreational marijuana.  But I do believe if 

10   we're going to do this, we need to do it 

11   responsibly.  And I have a lot of questions that 

12   I'd like to talk about -- not a lot today, but 

13   I'd like a few today.  

14                First and foremost, you know, I'm in 

15   the hospitality business.  And I'm a little 

16   concerned about the disparity between several 

17   things that are requirements in the hospitality 

18   industry that are not going to be so strict when 

19   it comes to cannabis.  Let's start with the 

20   licensing.

21                I know firsthand how difficult it is 

22   to get a liquor license.  If you have been 

23   convicted of a crime, a felony, or anybody that's 

24   involved with your operations has been convicted 

25   of a felony, you are highly unlikely to be able 


                                                               2001

 1   to get a liquor license.  That has been the case 

 2   for a long time.  It stems back to the days when 

 3   the Mafia was involved with licensed liquor 

 4   establishments so they could launder money, 

 5   because criminals like to find a way to launder 

 6   the money.  

 7                Yet here -- and this is my first 

 8   question -- it's my understanding that this bill 

 9   is going to allow individuals who have been 

10   convicted of felonies for drug dealing to be able 

11   to receive a license to cultivate, process and 

12   distribute or sell marijuana.  Is that correct, 

13   are convicted criminals allowed to get licenses?

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   For certain 

15   categories, yes.  

16                And of course a major portion of 

17   this bill is to expunge the records of people who 

18   got caught up in the criminal justice system 

19   involved with cannabis.

20                So our goal is to expunge the 

21   records of people who had cannabis convictions 

22   and open them up to be able to be full citizens 

23   where they can apply to actually work legally in 

24   this business, where they have no risk of 

25   problems with getting an education because they 


                                                               2002

 1   had a cannabis record, or being able to apply for 

 2   certain kinds of jobs, or being able to live 

 3   certain places.  

 4                So yes, part of the goal of this law 

 5   is to ensure that people who may have been 

 6   participating in an activity that was illegal 

 7   will now be able to become taxpayers, owners, 

 8   work in stores, et cetera.

 9                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.

10                Mr. President, will the sponsor 

11   yield again.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

13   the sponsor yield?

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

16   sponsor yields.

17                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Okay.  So we've 

18   established that we are going to allow criminals 

19   to be able to get licenses.  Unlike with the 

20   liquor licenses, we're going to allow criminals 

21   to get licenses for cannabis.

22                So that being said, you brought up 

23   records for marijuana, we're going to expunge 

24   that, because it's now legal.  However, 

25   oftentimes people are convicted of multiple 


                                                               2003

 1   things.  So if someone has been convicted of 

 2   selling marijuana but also been convicted of 

 3   selling other drugs, like meth or heroin, or had 

 4   a weapons charge, would they be excluded from 

 5   getting a cannabis license?  

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So if they've 

 7   done their time and the agency handing out 

 8   licenses determines that they believe they can be 

 9   a trustworthy, reliable businessperson in this 

10   field, then they will be allowed.  And it will be 

11   through a regulatory process and evaluation.

12                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

13   will the sponsor continue to yield.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

15   the sponsor yield?

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

18   sponsor yields.

19                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Okay.  So just 

20   so we're clear, someone who's been convicted of, 

21   you know, selling methamphetamine and maybe had 

22   some weapons charges, maybe slapped his 

23   girlfriend around a little bit, he's still 

24   eligible for having a license, unlike alcohol.

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   He's done his 


                                                               2004

 1   time.  I don't think there's any exclusion for 

 2   any of these categories.

 3                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

 4   will the sponsor continue to yield.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

 6   the sponsor yield?

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Crimes involving 

 8   fraud in business are not allowed.  The crimes 

 9   that you've mentioned could conceivably still 

10   allow someone.  

11                And, I'm sorry, and yes, I accept 

12   the next question.

13                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you for 

14   the further explanation.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

16   sponsor yields.

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

18                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Okay, so that 

19   actually kind of dovetails a little bit to my 

20   next question.  

21                So you're saying fraud, they've been 

22   involved in fraud.  However, you know, if you're 

23   talking about someone who's been in criminal 

24   activity, you've basically made an income selling 

25   drugs -- and in your case that you mentioned it 


                                                               2005

 1   could be selling any drug, it could be selling 

 2   weapons -- and you've made an income, you haven't 

 3   reported that income.  So aren't those people in 

 4   fact committing business fraud?  Because they're 

 5   not reporting that income.  

 6                So how -- but those folks will still 

 7   be eligible, right.  So I'll ask again, will 

 8   those folks that are criminals be eligible for 

 9   cannabis but not alcohol?  

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So if they have 

11   that conviction on their record, yes, then I 

12   think yes, they would not be eligible.

13                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

14   would the sponsor continue to yield.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

16   the sponsor yield?

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

19   sponsor yields.

20                SENATOR BORRELLO:   So just -- I 

21   want to make sure we're clear.  Are you aware 

22   that there's a very, very high standard for 

23   alcohol and there's a tremendous amount of 

24   liability when it comes to being a licensed 

25   establishment?  


                                                               2006

 1                So I know that the bill prohibits 

 2   people from smoking or vaping marijuana in a 

 3   licensed establishment, for example, a 

 4   liquor-licensed establishment, like a bar or 

 5   restaurant.  But does that also prohibit them 

 6   from consuming like an edible, which typically is 

 7   much more potent than smoking it?  So would 

 8   someone be able to consume an edible legally in a 

 9   licensed establishment where they're prohibited 

10   from smoking it?

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So here's the 

12   dilemma.  Since it will be legal, you may be 

13   walking around with it.  And if you go into a 

14   restaurant and you take your gummy, I don't know 

15   that anybody will know whether you've taken your 

16   gummy or not.  And we don't want to make that 

17   particularly illegal.  Even though I do recommend 

18   people not mix alcohol and marijuana, and that's 

19   quite a bit of the effort in the bill, to make 

20   sure that we're not mixing these products.

21                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

22   will the sponsor continue to yield.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

24   the sponsor yield?

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.


                                                               2007

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 2   sponsor yields.

 3                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you for 

 4   that.

 5                So as a licensed operator myself, a 

 6   liquor license, there's a few things that concern 

 7   me, especially with what you're talking about.  

 8   So what you're saying is you can walk in.  Now, 

 9   for the most part you cannot bring alcohol into a 

10   licensed liquor establishment that you didn't 

11   purchase there.  That's because as an operator, I 

12   am responsible for you being sober.  I'm 

13   responsible for your intoxication level.  

14                Yet someone could walk in with a 

15   handful of very potent gummies, consume them 

16   on-premise, buy one beer from me, for example, or 

17   any other licensed establishment, leave that 

18   establishment, get into an accident and kill 

19   someone.

20                In that scenario, especially with 

21   all the restrictions that we now have where, you 

22   know, these people are going to be -- it's going 

23   to be difficult to stop these people because of 

24   all the freedom that they're going to have to 

25   consume and drive -- in that scenario that I just 


                                                               2008

 1   described where someone had one beer and, 

 2   unbeknownst to that licensed operator, had 

 3   several intoxicating gummies, has an accident, 

 4   kills someone, is that licensed establishment 

 5   liable for that?  

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I would say no.  

 7                But it might be that somebody's 

 8   going to have to be doing testing of the people 

 9   in the accident and play that out.  I mean, I 

10   think that must happen now.  

11                If I go into your establishment and 

12   I am -- I don't know -- an oxy addict or taking 

13   some type of prescription drug and I decided to 

14   pop too many -- and I know that the bottle said 

15   don't drink and mix it with this pill, but I 

16   did -- and then I leave your establishment and I 

17   get into a car and drive, what's the storyline 

18   now?  I think it would be exactly the same 

19   storyline.

20                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

21   will the sponsor continue to yield.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

23   the sponsor yield?

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 


                                                               2009

 1   sponsor yields.

 2                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Well, I would 

 3   disagree with that, only because you're talking 

 4   about someone doing something that is essentially 

 5   illegal.  If they consume too much or if they're 

 6   taking prescription drugs that weren't prescribed 

 7   to them, that in itself is illegal.  

 8                So -- and I guess I'm not really 

 9   making a question so much as I am a point, but --

10                (Overtalk.)

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   They could be 

12   prescription drugs that weren't prescribed -- 

13                SENATOR BORRELLO:   We're saying now 

14   that we are essentially encouraging folks that 

15   they can buy gummies, for example -- I'm just 

16   using that -- any edible, anything that's really 

17   nearly impossible to detect -- walk into a liquor 

18   license establishment where that owner, that 

19   small business owner who's life and the lives of 

20   his family depend on that liquor license being in 

21   place, is now going to be assuming an 

22   unreasonable risk by having to determine whether 

23   or not that person is consuming far too much 

24   intoxicating material on that person's premises.  

25                So we've created this I guess 


                                                               2010

 1   unnecessary risk.  So shouldn't we be mitigating 

 2   that risk for those folks?  Because we're passing 

 3   a bill that should be responsible.  Shouldn't we 

 4   be mitigating that risk?

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Well, the irony 

 6   is that exists right now.  We don't know, when 

 7   somebody comes in your bar, whether they have 

 8   used marijuana before they got there or are 

 9   popping other illegal drugs or not.  They are 

10   wandering around the world, they are using what 

11   they use.  And so we face this risk in reality 

12   today.

13                The plus about making marijuana 

14   legal specifically under this bill is we're going 

15   to be investing a significant amount of money in 

16   education about the dangers of drugs, including 

17   the dangers of mixing drugs.  So that I actually 

18   think we will have a better-educated population, 

19   perhaps who will choose not to mix alcohol and 

20   marijuana, mix alcohol and other drugs, and even 

21   not take those other drugs, period, because we're 

22   both going to be educating them to the dangers of 

23   doing so.  

24                And the research coming out of 

25   states that have legalized marijuana is it 


                                                               2011

 1   decreases the use of far more dangerous opioids.  

 2   It reduces the number of people who are having 

 3   overdoses from opioids, whether legal or illegal.  

 4   And so there are actually quite a few pluses that 

 5   come out of having a legalized marijuana system 

 6   and decreasing use of other drugs.

 7                But you're right, in a world where 

 8   there are lots of different products and it's 

 9   easy to get them and the mixing of some of them 

10   is a really bad idea, just like using alcohol or 

11   marijuana or heroin and getting behind the wheel 

12   of a car is dangerous, those realities are there.  

13                But I don't think we're increasing 

14   those realities, we're just talking about 

15   something that's already happening out there in 

16   our state.

17                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.  

18                Mr. President, on the bill.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

20   Borrello on the bill.

21                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Senator Krueger, 

22   thank you again for the debate.  Appreciate it.  

23                You know, I have been opposed to 

24   this for many reasons.  I have been talking about 

25   the dangers of this irresponsible legalization of 


                                                               2012

 1   recreational marijuana since my time as a county 

 2   executive, because I see firsthand county 

 3   governments, especially, on the front lines.  

 4                But as a business owner, I pointed 

 5   out just in a few questions the dangers the state 

 6   is now going to be sanctioning.  The state is now 

 7   going to sanction some horrible unpredictable 

 8   risks on behalf of every small business owner 

 9   here in New York State, particularly those in the 

10   hospitality industry that have to already deal 

11   with these issues, and now it is going to be 

12   state-sanctioned.

13                Our job here is to ignore the noise, 

14   ignore the political leanings of one way or 

15   another, ignore what is often special interests 

16   speaking loudly that don't necessarily speak on 

17   behalf of everyone, and try to craft good 

18   legislation that's in the best interests of 

19   New Yorkers as a whole.

20                So while I understand that there are 

21   many New Yorkers who think that we need to do 

22   this, but I don't believe this is the way to do 

23   it.

24                I mean, let's look at the comparison 

25   that I made before about a licensed alcohol 


                                                               2013

 1   establishment and a licensed cannabis.  If you 

 2   are a convicted felon, you are essentially 

 3   barred from operating a licensed establishment 

 4   that serves alcohol.  But if you're a convicted 

 5   felon, you go to the front of the line to get a 

 6   cannabis license.  How is that fair and 

 7   equitable?  How is that right?  How is that 

 8   protecting the best interests of the people of 

 9   New York State?  

10                We've made great strides when it 

11   comes to drunk driving.  It's taken 30 painful 

12   years, if not longer, to get to where we are 

13   right now, which is a greatly reduced amount of 

14   deaths on our roadways due to alcohol.  But now 

15   we're about to take a tremendous step backwards.  

16   Because with alcohol, the key was strict 

17   enforcement.  People know that if you have too 

18   much to drink and you get behind the wheel and 

19   you get pulled over, you're going to be arrested, 

20   your car is going to be impounded, you're going 

21   to go to the police station, you're going to have 

22   to make an embarrassing phone call for someone to 

23   help bail you out.  Then it's going to cost you 

24   thousands of dollars.  You're going to lose your 

25   license for sometimes years.  That's how we got 


                                                               2014

 1   to where we are.  

 2                Contrast that with what we're about 

 3   to do.  This bill says that if you get pulled 

 4   over and you're stoned while driving but you 

 5   haven't caused an accident yet, the police 

 6   essentially can't do anything.

 7                We are saying, the state is saying 

 8   you have to cause injury or death before we can 

 9   do something about you driving stoned.  That's 

10   what the state is about to pass if this bill 

11   passes today.

12                How many times do we say in this 

13   chamber if this law only saves just one life, we 

14   should do it?  Ladies and gentlemen, this bill as 

15   it stands is going to cost hundreds if not 

16   thousands of the lives of New Yorkers.

17                So we can sit here and justify it, 

18   we can talk about data.  But the reality is we 

19   know what's going to happen.  We know that we set 

20   the bar much lower.  We know that we're telling 

21   people that it's going to be okay to drive 

22   stoned, that's okay.  And we are going to go back 

23   to the days 30, 40 years ago where people died 

24   needlessly as a result of bad enforcement.

25                We are handcuffing our police 


                                                               2015

 1   officers.  We're going to make the jobs of our 

 2   local public health officials more difficult.  

 3   We're going to have more issues with Child 

 4   Protective Services.  All those other things that 

 5   happen when you do something like this and you 

 6   haven't taken those things into consideration.

 7                So as a result, I'm going to say 

 8   that while I think there are good intentions 

 9   here, at the end of the day we have a 

10   responsibility to protect New Yorkers.  And we 

11   are sanctioning irresponsible behavior today.  

12   And when the time comes, I'll be voting no.

13                Thank you.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

15   Mattera.

16                SENATOR MATTERA:   Through you, 

17   Mr. President, will the sponsor yield for a 

18   question.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

20   the sponsor yield?

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

23   sponsor yields.

24                SENATOR MATTERA:   Thank you.  Thank 

25   you, Senator Krueger.  Through you, 


                                                               2016

 1   Mr. President.

 2                Senator Krueger, is there language 

 3   anywhere in the bill that would prohibit any 

 4   employer from requiring that an employee or 

 5   prospective employee pass a drug test as a 

 6   condition of employment or pass a drug test as a 

 7   condition of continued employment?  

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 9   Mr. President.  There are many different kinds of 

10   jobs that exist in the State of New York that 

11   already have standards, under federal law or 

12   state law, about drug tests.  So if you have that 

13   kind of job where they can require a drug test, 

14   they will be able to require it for marijuana as 

15   well.

16                Not every job are there risks, and 

17   not every job falls under federal or state 

18   standards, but a lot of them do.  Should I read 

19   them?  

20                So there's no comprehensive federal 

21   law that regulates drug testing in the private 

22   sector, but the Drug-Free Workplace Act does 

23   impose certain employee education requirements on 

24   companies that do business with government, but 

25   it does not require testing nor does it restrict 


                                                               2017

 1   testing in any way.  

 2                Drug testing is allowed under the 

 3   ADA, Americans with Disabilities Act.  But the 

 4   law does not regulate or prohibit testing instead 

 5   of a comprehensive regulatory system.

 6                Federal law provides for specific 

 7   agencies to adopt drug testing regulations for 

 8   employers under their jurisdiction.  The 

 9   Department of Defense, for example, requires 

10   defense contractors set up procedures for 

11   identifying drug users, including random testing.  

12   The Department of Transportation requires 

13   industries it regulates to conduct random testing 

14   of drugs and alcohol for workers in 

15   safety-sensitive jobs as well as testing after 

16   accidents and when there is reasonable suspicion 

17   of an employee's drug abuse.

18                The federal Omnibus Transportation 

19   Employment Testing Act, OTETA, requires tests for 

20   all operators of aircraft, railroad equipment, 

21   mass transit vehicles, commercial motor vehicles.  

22                Since there is no federal 

23   comprehensive drug testing law, this leaves the 

24   field open to state regulation, and many states 

25   have enacted different provisions.  As a general 


                                                               2018

 1   rule, testing is presumed to be lawful unless 

 2   there's a specific restriction not allowing it in 

 3   state or federal law.

 4                SENATOR MATTERA:   Thank you for the 

 5   answer, Senator Krueger.

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.

 7                SENATOR MATTERA:  Through you, 

 8   Mr. President, will the sponsor yield for another 

 9   question.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

11   the sponsor yield?

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, of course.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

14   sponsor yields.

15                SENATOR MATTERA:   Through you, 

16   Mr. President.  Is an employee who was fired due 

17   to a positive marijuana test eligible for 

18   unemployment insurance?  

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   It probably 

20   depends on the facts and circumstances.  If they 

21   were in any of the categories of jobs that all 

22   these different laws applied to, then when they 

23   got fired it would be due to their own use of 

24   drugs when they knew that they were facing a risk 

25   of being tested and penalized.


                                                               2019

 1                So I would say if you're in any of 

 2   the categories where your employer does choose to 

 3   test and has told you they do so, you're probably 

 4   not going to win your unemployment case.

 5                SENATOR MATTERA:   Thank you.

 6                Through you, Mr. President, will the 

 7   sponsor yield for another question.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

 9   the sponsor yield?

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.  I do.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

12   sponsor yields.

13                SENATOR MATTERA:   Thank you, 

14   Senator Krueger.  Through you, Mr. President.

15                Senator Krueger, can you -- can an 

16   employer put a policy in place to prohibit 

17   marijuana use entirely by staff, especially in 

18   certain industries where impairment could cause 

19   serious safety concerns?  For instance, could 

20   law enforcement or other groups implement a 

21   policy that prohibits use entirely?  

22                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So you might not 

23   be able to have a total across-the-board ban 

24   unless you were in the categories that I read to 

25   you about federal funding, or the transportation, 


                                                               2020

 1   or there was categories of the kind of jobs you 

 2   were involved with where it would be considered a 

 3   public safety issue.

 4                But just somebody saying, No one can 

 5   ever use marijuana and work here -- you know, if 

 6   there was federal funds, I think our police would 

 7   have trouble, for example, because most of them 

 8   use federal funding with their jobs.  I think 

 9   anybody who's obviously working in 

10   transportation, transit, construction, operators 

11   of heavy machinery.  But I think a universal 

12   across-the-board ban would be a little harder to 

13   win on.

14                SENATOR MATTERA:   Thank you, 

15   Senator Krueger, for answering my questions.

16                Mr. President, on the bill.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

18   Mattera on the bill.

19                SENATOR MATTERA:   Thank you, 

20   Mr. President.

21                I am voting no today since the 

22   damage this legislation will cause to our 

23   children and our society far outweigh any 

24   potential benefits.  Legalization will impact 

25   workplace safety, affect New Yorkers's health, 


                                                               2021

 1   impede our fight against drug abuse, and endanger 

 2   our children.

 3                As a labor leader, the issue of 

 4   workplace safety has always been paramount to me.  

 5   Our state should be doing all it can do to 

 6   protect our workers, and this legislation has a 

 7   likelihood to do the opposite.  That will put our 

 8   residents in danger.  And as a building trades 

 9   member, this legislation will be a liability to 

10   our contractors and to our men and women, 

11   hardworking men and women of labor.

12                Additionally, one of the most 

13   glaring shortcomings of this legislation is how 

14   it fails to address the impact of roadway safety.  

15   This legislation will make the jobs of our 

16   law enforcement more difficult.  While the 

17   legislation enables the study of techniques to 

18   detect marijuana use during traffic stops, the 

19   reality is that none exist.  Simply put, we have 

20   put the cart before the horse.

21                And on a very personal note, I am 

22   voting no since I have personally seen the impact 

23   this drug has on our youth.  I have watched 

24   members of my family struggle with its power.  In 

25   my experience with family, this drug led to 


                                                               2022

 1   harder drugs and caused my family wide issues 

 2   that continue to this day.  

 3                This is a danger that is not unique 

 4   to my family.  Our state's own Department of 

 5   Health has signified that 30 percent of users can 

 6   become addicted.  Addiction professionals, the 

 7   very people that we should be relying on 

 8   regarding this matter, are against legalization.  

 9   And with the current crisis affecting the mental 

10   health of many of our residents, this will just 

11   add to the problems we as a state are facing.

12                Simply put, as a father, husband, 

13   community member and labor leader, I am voting no 

14   on this legislation to protect all of our 

15   residents from the unseen and ignored dangers of 

16   this legislation.

17                I'm just going to be speaking from 

18   my heart.  My family members have gone through 

19   drug addiction.  Very sad what I've been going 

20   through, and it started from marijuana.  It went 

21   from marijuana right to Adderall to cocaine and 

22   then to acid.  All this is doing, especially in 

23   our colleges -- this is serious.  This is a 

24   gateway for our young children.  It's problems.  

25   This is a disaster waiting to happen.  


                                                               2023

 1                Even with my members in the 

 2   construction field going to work every day -- 

 3   every day working, going and smoking pot and then 

 4   going back to work with power tools -- it's a 

 5   huge liability.  Our contractors are against 

 6   this.  The building trades are against this.  

 7   Construction is the backbone of the economy.  And 

 8   guess what's going to happen?  We're pretty much 

 9   saying, Go ahead, you can go smoke pot and get 

10   high, and the next thing you know, going back to 

11   work with power tools, because you can't detect 

12   anything.

13                This is a total disaster.  

14   Mr. President, I will be voting no on this 

15   terrible bill.  Thank you.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

17   Lanza.

18                SENATOR LANZA:   Thank you, 

19   Mr. President.  

20                Would the sponsor yield for some 

21   questions.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

23   the sponsor yield?

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.

25                SENATOR LANZA:   Through you, 


                                                               2024

 1   Mr. President, I just want to clarify a few 

 2   things I heard.  

 3                First of all, the sponsor, 

 4   Senator Krueger, acknowledged that marijuana is 

 5   still illegal under federal law.  And while this 

 6   legislation prohibits law enforcement in New York 

 7   from assisting federal law enforcement agencies, 

 8   if a person in New York is found to be smoking 

 9   marijuana in public, for instance, or in 

10   possession of quantities of marijuana, would not 

11   that New Yorker be subject to arrest by a federal 

12   law enforcement agency?

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.  Senator 

14   Lanza is correct.

15                SENATOR LANZA:   Would the sponsor 

16   yield.

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

19   sponsor yields.

20                SENATOR LANZA:   Through you, 

21   Mr. President.  Senator Krueger, does that not 

22   set up an impossible situation for New Yorkers 

23   who, under this legislation, would be allowed to 

24   do certain things in New York which would then 

25   subject them to arrest by an FBI agent or a 


                                                               2025

 1   law enforcement agent?

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 3   Mr. President.  This bill doesn't force anyone to 

 4   use marijuana.  And of course we know a huge 

 5   percentage of New Yorkers are already using 

 6   marijuana, facing risk from both federal law and 

 7   state law.

 8                So we're decreasing the risk by 

 9   removing the state penalty penalties, but the 

10   federal are real.  But none of it's stopping 

11   anybody from using marijuana.

12                SENATOR LANZA:   Will the sponsor 

13   yield? 

14                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

15   the sponsor yield?

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

18   sponsor yields.

19                SENATOR LANZA:   Through you, 

20   Mr. President.  Did I hear correctly that a 

21   person can be guilty and have been convicted of 

22   an unlawful gun charge and still be able to 

23   receive a license under this legislation to sell 

24   marijuana in New York?

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We're 


                                                               2026

 1   double-checking for you, Senator Lanza.  (Pause.)

 2                We cannot find a specific 

 3   prohibition.  

 4                SENATOR LANZA:  Will the sponsor 

 5   yield.

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 8   sponsor yields.  

 9                SENATOR LANZA:   Through you, 

10   Mr. President, am I correct in my understanding 

11   that this bill both legalizes the recreational 

12   use of marijuana and then uses the proceeds to 

13   educate New Yorkers that they ought not use it?

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   That they not use 

15   it?  

16                SENATOR LANZA:   That they ought not 

17   use it.

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, 

19   Mr. President, through you.  The revenue from 

20   this program will be used in a variety of ways, 

21   including public education of the dangers of drug 

22   use, including the risks of marijuana use, the 

23   risks of alcohol and tobacco, and the risks of 

24   the very serious drugs that so many New Yorkers 

25   are finding themselves addicted to in the world 


                                                               2027

 1   of opioids.  

 2                Twenty percent of the revenues from 

 3   this law will be used specifically for ongoing 

 4   drug treatment as well as education about drug 

 5   dangers and prevention.  

 6                I never said there was no risk to 

 7   marijuana.  I didn't get to make my opening 

 8   statement yet -- I will, Mr. President -- but I 

 9   would have highlighted that there is some danger 

10   and risk from the use of marijuana.  It has shown 

11   to be less than that that comes from tobacco and 

12   alcohol.  We tax and regulate tobacco and 

13   alcohol.  We don't give people criminal records.  

14   With this law, we will be taxing marijuana and 

15   regulating marijuana, not giving criminal 

16   records.  

17                But it doesn't mean I'm encouraging 

18   everybody to go out there and use marijuana.  And 

19   in fact, the data coming in from some states that 

20   have legalized marijuana is that they actually 

21   see a decrease in use over time, particularly 

22   among young people.  But again, this isn't a bill 

23   about young people using marijuana.  This is a 

24   bill that only legalizes from 21 up.  

25                So people have all kinds of concerns 


                                                               2028

 1   about their children and their teenagers using 

 2   marijuana, tobacco and alcohol -- as they should, 

 3   Mr. President.  And we should be doing a better 

 4   job at educating them as families and as 

 5   teenagers about the dangers.  But we don't, and 

 6   it's all going on right now.  

 7                So this bill will finally give us 

 8   some revenue streams to have specific programs 

 9   operating statewide.

10                SENATOR LANZA:   Will the sponsor 

11   yield.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

13   the sponsor yield?

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

16   sponsor yields.  

17                SENATOR LANZA:   Through you, 

18   Mr. President.  Does the sponsor believe that the 

19   CDC is a reliable and trustworthy authority with 

20   respect to disease and health in America?

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   The record was 

22   great until about the four-year period that 

23   Donald Trump was president.  I think they're 

24   working to get their reputation back.

25                SENATOR LANZA:   Will the sponsor 


                                                               2029

 1   yield.

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 4   sponsor yields.  

 5                SENATOR LANZA:   Through you, 

 6   Mr. President.  Is the sponsor concerned that the 

 7   CDC and other authoritative organizations cite 

 8   that people who use marijuana are three times 

 9   more likely to become heroin addicts?

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I think I would 

11   have to look at the data in the context of the 

12   full research.  

13                What the CDC has shown and most drug 

14   experts have shown is that marijuana is not a 

15   gateway drug to other, stronger drugs.  

16                Having said that, if you were going 

17   to end up on a more dangerous and more addictive 

18   drug, it is quite possible that you started with 

19   marijuana or alcohol.  And it is true that some 

20   people have more addictive personalities.  And 

21   whether you put marijuana in front of them or 

22   heroin in front of them or beer in front of them, 

23   they are going to have a different reaction to it 

24   than people who do not have even a genetic 

25   predisposition to addiction.


                                                               2030

 1                But the vast amount of evidence that 

 2   has been done in this country now for 75 years is 

 3   that using marijuana is not evidence that you 

 4   will then go on to stronger drugs or become 

 5   addicted to them.

 6                SENATOR LANZA:   Will the sponsor 

 7   yield, please.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Will 

 9   the sponsor yield?

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

12   sponsor yields.  

13                SENATOR LANZA:   Through you, 

14   Mr. President.  I would just cite that the CDC 

15   disagrees with that statement.

16                Through you, Mr. President.  And 

17   again, this is the CDC speaking, and other 

18   authorities, health authorities around the world.  

19   Is the sponsor concerned that the CDC and other 

20   authorities note that marijuana, when smoked, 

21   delivers numerous carcinogens to the body and 

22   that this -- that marijuana use will increase the 

23   rate of cancer in the State of New York?

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

25   Mr. President, I am not aware that there is a 


                                                               2031

 1   direct correlation between a growth in cancer and 

 2   the use of marijuana.  

 3                Now, it may be true that there is 

 4   some developing research, but I don't believe I 

 5   have seen any.

 6                It is true that the medical 

 7   community by and large agrees taking burning 

 8   substance abuses into your lungs is not a great 

 9   idea.  So cannabis can be mixed with other 

10   products that could be more dangerous than the 

11   cannabis itself, or cannabis can simply be a leaf 

12   like tobacco that you burn and inhale and it 

13   causes problems.

14                I'm quite sure that the Lung 

15   Association recognizes that the real risks are 

16   tobacco when you're talking about inhaling 

17   burning products, but I'm not going to tell you 

18   that there may not be some evidence for burning 

19   it -- cannabis in your lungs.

20                I say the good news is that you 

21   don't have to use it that way.  And if we have a 

22   legal market, as we have learned from the 

23   medicinal market, there are many more options 

24   available to you for using cannabis products 

25   without having to burn it and inhale it into your 


                                                               2032

 1   lungs.

 2                So I think it would be an advantage 

 3   of a legalized program over the current system, 

 4   where pretty much people are just using it and 

 5   burning it.

 6                SENATOR LANZA:   Will the sponsor 

 7   yield.

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

10   sponsor yields.

11                SENATOR LANZA:   Through you, 

12   Mr. President.  You know, I have a libertarian 

13   streak in me which leads me to have less concern 

14   with respect to adults using marijuana.  My 

15   primary concern here is how this is going to 

16   affect the young people in our state, and 

17   obviously with respect to how this is going to 

18   affect the safety, especially on our roads.  So I 

19   have a few questions concerning those issues.

20                Through you, Mr. President, is the 

21   sponsor concerned that numerous studies, both in 

22   this country and around the world, have 

23   demonstrated that marijuana use by young people 

24   causes permanent brain damage?  

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 


                                                               2033

 1   Mr. President, I am concerned.  That's why this 

 2   law starts at 21.  I'm not supporting young 

 3   people using marijuana.

 4                SENATOR LANZA:   Will the sponsor 

 5   yield.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

 7   the sponsor yield?

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 9   Mr. President, yes.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

11   sponsor yields.

12                SENATOR LANZA:   Through you, 

13   Mr. President.  So let's get to that.

14                The sponsor indicated that this is 

15   not a program for children and also said that 

16   under this legislation we -- I suppose she meant 

17   law enforcement -- will not be picking up or 

18   stopping kids.

19                So if that's the case, what will 

20   happen to a young person that is found to be in 

21   possession with marijuana in the State of 

22   New York if this is passed?  

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   The penalty for 

24   being underage and having it is very minimal.  

25   The penalty is on the person who got it for you.


                                                               2034

 1                So what's interesting is if you talk 

 2   to some people in police, DEA, judges, they'll 

 3   tell you marijuana is easier to get for teenagers 

 4   than alcohol or tobacco because at least with 

 5   alcohol and tobacco, they either have to get fake 

 6   I.D., which is getting harder and harder to get 

 7   I.D. that works in today's world of technology, 

 8   or they have to find some adult who's willing to 

 9   go out and get it for them.

10                So they tell me that actually 

11   legalized marijuana will make it tougher for kids 

12   to get it than it's available now.  I don't know 

13   about the rest of the State of New York; I know 

14   in the City of New York that you and I share and 

15   love, I'm advised that all five boroughs, 

16   including Staten Island, you can use apps and get 

17   marijuana delivered in 15 minutes.  And nobody's 

18   asking for your I.D. because it's an illegal 

19   system.

20                I would far prefer that we have a 

21   legal system where it's actually pretty hard for 

22   someone under 21 to go out and get marijuana.  I 

23   think it actually advantages us who are concerned 

24   about young people starting with drugs.

25                SENATOR LANZA:   Will the sponsor 


                                                               2035

 1   yield.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

 3   the sponsor yield?

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 6   sponsor yields.

 7                SENATOR LANZA:   Through you, 

 8   Mr. President, given that answer that the penalty 

 9   for a young person possessing, let's say, a half 

10   a pound of marijuana will be subject to very 

11   minimum enforcement -- I'm not sure what that 

12   means, but it sounds like there will be no 

13   enforcement or there will be no penalty.  

14                Through you, Mr. President, doesn't 

15   that send a message here in New York to young 

16   people that it's okay to use marijuana, given the 

17   fact that there isn't a penalty, given the fact 

18   that the state is now saying that it's legal, 

19   given the fact that there are many people who 

20   don't use marijuana specifically because it is 

21   unlawful -- doesn't this send a message, given 

22   human nature, to young people who now wake up and 

23   read in the paper that New York says marijuana is 

24   okay, it's legal, and there will be no penalty 

25   for you, a 16-year-old, a 17-year-old, to possess 


                                                               2036

 1   it?  Doesn't that logically mean and lead to the 

 2   fact that more young people are going to use 

 3   marijuana in the State of New York?

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 5   Mr. President.

 6                So to clarify an answer before, 

 7   there is a penalty, and it's maybe a 

 8   $25 violation, plus community service, plus 

 9   education about the danger of drugs.  So we don't 

10   have any of that now, except you can end up in 

11   the criminal justice system.  As opposed to 

12   alcohol, underage alcohol, where we also were not 

13   putting you through the criminal justice system, 

14   nor are we offering any of those other penalties 

15   or services.

16                I think what's crucial to understand 

17   here is yes, we are saying marijuana is less 

18   dangerous than alcohol or tobacco, so we're 

19   pretty much going to treat it the same way -- as 

20   opposed to treat it as a dangerous drug, which it 

21   is not, and penalize you as a young person as if 

22   you have committed a crime.

23                Because that's really what started 

24   me down this path, Mr. President.  We are 

25   arresting young people by tens of thousands per 


                                                               2037

 1   year, moving them through some level of the 

 2   criminal justice system, in some cases ruining 

 3   their lives because they had a couple of joints 

 4   in their pockets.  And Mr. President, they are 

 5   statistically Black and Brown young people.

 6                My district is disproportionately 

 7   Caucasian.  The data shows my teenagers are using 

 8   marijuana at higher levels or exactly the same 

 9   levels as the young people in your district just 

10   north of mine, Mr. President, where they are much 

11   more likely to be Black and Brown.  Or throughout 

12   the State of New York, in any community or 

13   neighborhood, where if they are Black or Brown, 

14   the statistics go as high as they are 68 times 

15   more likely to get caught up in the criminal 

16   justice system for using a product that is less 

17   dangerous than alcohol or tobacco.  

18                And we are, we are ruining lives.  

19   These are young people who then may never be able 

20   to take a civil service exam and get a job as a 

21   good-paid worker in the City or State of 

22   New York.  These are young people who might be 

23   told they can't live with their families in 

24   public housing because it's federal housing.  

25   These are young people who might be told they're 


                                                               2038

 1   not eligible for grants and loans to continue 

 2   their education, when we know that's the most 

 3   important thing for them to do to be able to grow 

 4   up and be a participant in our society.

 5                So I'm not really very worried about 

 6   holding onto criminal penalties for young people, 

 7   who we know will experiment, because that's what 

 8   young people do.

 9                I dare any of my colleagues here in 

10   this room to say that before they were 

11   21 years old they hadn't tried alcohol or tried 

12   marijuana.  Not everybody tried marijuana, but 

13   everyone tried alcohol.  And I started using 

14   marijuana when I was 14 years old.  Now, by the 

15   time I was 17 years old, I had zero interest, and 

16   have ever since had no interest.  I did try it 

17   once again when I was age 19 at the Rocky Horror 

18   Picture Show Friday midnight viewing in Chicago.  

19   But pretty much it was just because they were 

20   passing it down the rows.  You couldn't avoid it.  

21   But even then I knew, at 19, this was something I 

22   had no interest in.

23                So we've all done that, been there.  

24   Nobody threatened to take my college education 

25   away or put me into the criminal justice system.  


                                                               2039

 1   And yet I have listened, by going to hearings 

 2   throughout the state, by talking to colleagues 

 3   throughout the state, of the unequal justice 

 4   system we have, just in marijuana alone.  And 

 5   there is no excuse for it.  

 6                So sure, I don't want people under 

 7   21 to use it.  They are using it now.  If they're 

 8   using it somehow when we legalize it, at least 

 9   we'll know it's a safe product, a product that is 

10   actually what it's advertised to be, hopefully 

11   not being sold by a cartel behind the building, 

12   but legally somehow.  And that they won't get 

13   themselves into worse trouble or caught up in 

14   something else.  Because that's what everybody 

15   wants for their kids.  

16                And everybody knows that teenagers 

17   like to break the rules and like to do whatever 

18   their parents tell them not to do.  And the most 

19   interesting thing in answer to the Senator's 

20   question, in the 15 other states that have legal 

21   marijuana, when they watch what has happened over 

22   time, do more people use marijuana?  People our 

23   age are using the marijuana.  Teenagers are 

24   actually using less of it.  There's not that much 

25   coolness about using the same drug your 


                                                               2040

 1   parents are using.

 2                And so we actually haven't seen an 

 3   increase in teenage using by legalizing 

 4   marijuana.  And people are imagining horrendous 

 5   things will happen here.  We're not inventing 

 6   this idea.  Fifteen other states have legalized 

 7   marijuana.  This state has the largest illegal 

 8   marijuana market in the country.  Nobody disputes 

 9   us on that.  We're trying to make it safer.  

10   We're trying to make sure that when you go in to 

11   buy something, you know what you're getting.  

12   We're trying to not use up police resources and 

13   court resources and DA resources picking up and 

14   dragging kids through a criminal justice system 

15   they never should have been in.

16                These are all rational, good policy 

17   reasons to support this.  And despite all of my 

18   colleagues today explaining why this would be 

19   disastrous, it's simply not true.  And it's not 

20   true in much of the world at this point.  It's 

21   not just the United States.  We are behind much 

22   of the world in our policies, and we are behind 

23   many of our neighboring states.

24                And so I know it is Senator Lanza's 

25   floor here to continue to ask me questions, and I 


                                                               2041

 1   am prepared to as long as he likes.  But I really 

 2   think we've missed the boat here even in the 

 3   discussion we're having.

 4                Excuse me, Senator Lanza, I needed 

 5   to rant.

 6                SENATOR LANZA:   Does the sponsor 

 7   yield?

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

10   sponsor yields.

11                SENATOR LANZA:   I commend my 

12   colleague for the effective use of the 

13   filibuster -- or as she described, the rant.

14                Let me -- knowing a lot of young 

15   people, being the father of young people, let me 

16   tell you how they're going to interpret that 

17   answer.  They're going to see that answer as 

18   meaning that yes, it is all right to use 

19   marijuana, that there will be no repercussions, 

20   that there is no penalty.  

21                I'm not looking to put anyone 

22   anywhere.  I'm not looking to take away anything 

23   from anyone.  But the message clearly emanating 

24   from this room to the young people of New York is 

25   if you want to use marijuana, do it, New York 


                                                               2042

 1   says it's all right.  And my concern is that 

 2   that's going to lead to higher rates of cancer, 

 3   brain damage.  

 4                And when you want to talk about 

 5   "these people," we don't want to do things to 

 6   these people, to these kids -- what we will be 

 7   doing, I believe, is permanently affecting the 

 8   trajectory of their life.  

 9                But I don't have much time, so I'm 

10   going to move on to a couple of questions on the 

11   road safety.

12                So I hear a lot of comparisons, 

13   Mr. President, between marijuana use, impaired 

14   driving, and alcohol use and impaired driving.  

15   And Mr. President, there is absolutely no 

16   scientific connection between the two.  This law, 

17   Mr. President, would make driving while high fall 

18   under the impairment charge, which is like 

19   getting a parking ticket, Mr. President.

20                When it comes to alcohol, 

21   Mr. President, if you are a little impaired, it's 

22   a parking ticket.  If you're really, really, 

23   really drunk, it's a crime.  And we can discern 

24   that, Mr. President, because of the difference 

25   between alcohol and marijuana.  Alcohol is 


                                                               2043

 1   measurable.  There's a specific rate in which it 

 2   leaves the body.  Marijuana cannot be measured in 

 3   that way.  Marijuana does not leave the body that 

 4   way.  

 5                And under this law, Mr. President, 

 6   an officer, a police officer making a stop would 

 7   actually have to name the drug.  And if the 

 8   driver refuses to give the name, which the driver 

 9   is constitutionally protected to do so, and if 

10   the driver refuses to be subjected to a test, 

11   well, then, there goes the case.

12                Through you, Mr. President, doesn't 

13   that concern the sponsor, that driving while 

14   impaired by marijuana, driving while highly 

15   intoxicated by marijuana, will be virtually 

16   impossible to prosecute and enforce in the State 

17   of New York under this legislation?

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

19   Mr. President, it won't be virtually impossible.  

20   We're already finding people guilty of impaired 

21   driving with marijuana.  We already have people 

22   who unfortunately use marijuana and drive and 

23   need to be caught and stopped.

24                Would we like a perfect world where 

25   you have a blood alcohol test in the back of 


                                                               2044

 1   every police car and could rapidly give the test?  

 2   Sure.  I would love that.  We've committed in 

 3   this law to starting to use it as soon as it is 

 4   created, and we have academic research that it 

 5   works.

 6                Interestingly -- and I'm sure 

 7   Senator Lanza knows this -- we depend on the 

 8   science of the blood alcohol test, when there was 

 9   an expose a few years ago that most of them are 

10   flawed.  And we don't have a great system for 

11   alcohol either, and we should try to get that 

12   fixed as well.

13                But we do have one for alcohol.  We 

14   don't have a simple one for THC, which can stay 

15   in your body for weeks even though you haven't 

16   used it in a time period where it would impact 

17   your driving -- or your capacity to drive and use 

18   equipment.

19                But states are functioning fine out 

20   there.  Fifteen states are using basically the 

21   same system we're incorporating into our state 

22   law.  And far more states are using similar 

23   systems for catching people who also are using 

24   marijuana when it's not legal, because marijuana 

25   is heavily used in all 50 states, whether or not 


                                                               2045

 1   they have taken any steps to legalize.

 2                But the states that have legalized 

 3   have not seen growing increases in problems from 

 4   incapacitated driving or more dangerous roads.  

 5   And some research shows the opposite.  I'm 

 6   keeping an open mind, but I'm quite confident 

 7   that the world does not end because we legalize 

 8   and we use the system and the skill sets that we 

 9   have from our police officers.

10                The same as my colleague says am I 

11   worried that we are going to have children doing 

12   things that can harm them.  Nobody ever wants 

13   children to do things that harm them, and 

14   sometimes they do those things.  I do not believe 

15   that legalizing marijuana for people over 21 is 

16   in any way sending a message to children that now 

17   it's okay for you.  And it's going to make it 

18   harder for them to get.  

19                And every parent should be talking 

20   to their children about the risk of those 

21   marijuana and other drugs.  And what's been 

22   fascinating to me, spending seven years trying to 

23   get this bill to the floor, is how many parents 

24   tell me:  Well, I can't talk to my children about 

25   that because it's not an issue for them.


                                                               2046

 1                And I beg them to go ask, Do you 

 2   know kids who use marijuana?  And they come 

 3   babbling and they go, Oh, my God, my children 

 4   know all about it.  Everybody has friends who use 

 5   it.  Everybody knows how to get it.  

 6                And it wakes up the parent to know 

 7   they need to have that conversation, both at a 

 8   much younger age, but take it much more 

 9   seriously.

10                So I actually think even this debate 

11   today on the floor, if it makes people turn to 

12   their kids and say, So, the news is filled with 

13   this marijuana issue.  I'm really worried about 

14   it.  I really don't think it's a good idea for 

15   you to try it at this young age.  Even if it just 

16   gets parents to have that conversation, this will 

17   have been a huge victory for educating families 

18   about what the reality is.  

19                Because, again, rural New York, 

20   suburban New York, urban New York -- your kids 

21   have access to marijuana.  You just don't know 

22   where they're getting it from or whether it's 

23   mixed with other things or whether it's dangerous 

24   people that they're buying it from.

25                So even though we disagree, Senator 


                                                               2047

 1   Lanza, this conversation in its own right is 

 2   worth it, as far as I'm concerned.

 3                SENATOR LANZA:   Will the sponsor 

 4   yield.

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 7   sponsor yields.

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

 9                SENATOR LANZA:   Through you, 

10   Mr. President.  Certainly I'm going to, after all 

11   this, going to go back home to my children and 

12   talk about whether or not they should listen to 

13   politicians.  

14                I will say, with respect to that 

15   answer -- because, Mr. President, no disrespect 

16   meant to anybody, but I truly believe, and we 

17   obviously differ and disagree on this point -- I 

18   truly believe that as a result of this law, the 

19   health, safety and well-being of our children is 

20   going to be severely affected.  

21                But I will say, Mr. President, 

22   through you, that the district attorneys, both 

23   Democrat and Republican, across the State of New 

24   York disagree with everything Senator Krueger 

25   just said.  And they have said -- and they are 


                                                               2048

 1   the experts -- that because of the differences 

 2   between alcohol and marijuana, that they will be 

 3   powerless, powerless to enforce driving while 

 4   intoxicated with marijuana on our roads.  That's 

 5   what they say.  It's not just what I'm saying.

 6                And so I just -- two last questions.  

 7   Through you, Mr. President.

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

10   sponsor yields.

11                SENATOR LANZA:   So the taxpayers of 

12   New York pay tens upon tens of millions for the 

13   biggest government in America.  We have the 

14   Health Department, they're supposedly experts, 

15   although I'm not sure people believe that anymore 

16   after the pandemic here in New York.  And we have 

17   other agencies.  We have thousands of experts.  

18                Has the sponsor or has anyone asked 

19   the Department of Health, law enforcement or any 

20   other agency or any other expert here in the 

21   government how many more deaths on our roads this 

22   legislation would lead to.  And I'm not asking -- 

23   through you, Mr. President, I'm not asking the 

24   sponsor what she believes, I'm asking whether or 

25   not we have anything from the Department of 


                                                               2049

 1   Health or other agencies with respect to that 

 2   question.

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 4   Mr. President, I don't believe the Department of 

 5   Health measures -- oops.  They're not throwing 

 6   things, something just fell.  

 7                I don't believe the Department of 

 8   Health in New York State measures causation from 

 9   death on roads, so I don't know that they would 

10   be the correct ones to ask.  

11                But there is national research that 

12   does not show an increase in vehicle deaths 

13   between states that have legal marijuana and 

14   illegal marijuana.

15                Now, it's a fair question.  People 

16   weren't measuring cause of death and having 

17   marijuana on a list when it's not legal.  So 

18   really the question is how much impaired driving 

19   correlates to death.  And I don't know that we 

20   have enough national data yet to really give you 

21   a better answer than in the states that have 

22   legalized, they have not seen any significant 

23   increase and, in some places, decreases.  They 

24   have seen decreases in deaths from other drugs 

25   because states that have legalized marijuana have 


                                                               2050

 1   seen reductions in overdoses from opioids and 

 2   other drug products.

 3                We do know the research shows 

 4   marijuana does not lead to illness or death by 

 5   use.  You asked me an earlier question, will 

 6   someday we see some correlation to lung cancer, 

 7   and I told you that I don't think evidence exists 

 8   yet but that it's a bad idea for people to take 

 9   burning products into their lungs.

10                But as far as you use marijuana and 

11   you get some kind of medical illness, sickness or 

12   death, that is not the case.  It does not seem to 

13   have any evidentiary correlation to a growth in 

14   suicide, although that was mentioned earlier.  It 

15   does not have a correlation to -- I think 

16   psychosis might have been said, I'm not sure.  

17   And I'm not sure it was by you, Senator Lanza, so 

18   I want to be careful.

19                But the concept that we're trying to 

20   make legal a drug that is going to cause some 

21   serious jump in death or illness from a variety 

22   of sources simply -- there simply is not evidence 

23   there to back that up.

24                SENATOR LANZA:   Will the sponsor 

25   yield?


                                                               2051

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 3   sponsor yields.

 4                SENATOR LANZA:   Mr. President, 

 5   through you.  I would just point out that, 

 6   contrary to what was just said, there are 

 7   numerous studies, including one by the Insurance 

 8   Institute for Highway Safety, that in the states 

 9   where it's legalized, like Colorado, Nevada, 

10   Oregon and Washington, not only is use 

11   significantly higher, which is the only logical 

12   conclusion one could draw from these types of 

13   things, but also that motor vehicle crashes and 

14   driving while intoxicated with marijuana is up 

15   significantly.  And in fact, in Washington, it's 

16   twice what it was before they legalized it.

17                So you can disagree there, but there 

18   are studies that support exactly what I've just 

19   said.

20                So I'm just going to ask one more 

21   question.  And I do really appreciate the sponsor 

22   for this discussion.

23                And I -- through you, Mr. President, 

24   I want to commend the sponsor for all the work.  

25   We disagree, but that does not mean that I cannot 


                                                               2052

 1   recognize the hard work she has dedicated here 

 2   and the poise and intelligence that she brings to 

 3   the discussion.

 4                So finally, through you, 

 5   Mr. President, could the sponsor --

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Are you 

 7   asking the sponsor to yield?

 8                SENATOR LANZA:   Yeah.

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

11   sponsor yields.

12                SENATOR LANZA:   Could the sponsor 

13   tell us why and whether she's concerned that 

14   leading health organizations -- not one or two or 

15   three, many -- leading educational 

16   organizations -- not one or two or three, many -- 

17   just about every district attorney across the 

18   State of New York, multiple law enforcement 

19   agencies, the Medical Society, fields -- just 

20   about every field of medicine here in New York 

21   has come out and opposed this legislation, saying 

22   in effect that based on all their expertise -- 

23   which the organizations I've just mentioned, 

24   Mr. President, cover just about every area 

25   related to this topic, between law enforcement 


                                                               2053

 1   and health and everything in between, like 

 2   education.  Mr. President, can the sponsor tell 

 3   us why she thinks that is the case and whether or 

 4   not that concerns her?

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 6   Mr. President.  I think I know why law 

 7   enforcement and the DAs are uncomfortable with 

 8   this.  They have pretty much not liked any of the 

 9   criminal justice reforms this Legislature has 

10   been involved in passing into law in the last 

11   several years.  

12                And I think the messaging follows 

13   suit consistently, depending upon any topic that 

14   we might go into in criminal justice reform.

15                On medical, it is true that the 

16   Medical Society in New York has opposed.  I have 

17   done many presentations and panels with doctors 

18   from the top hospitals in this state who support 

19   legalizing marijuana and support this bill.  

20   There are individual medical societies for 

21   specialties that have actually been crying out 

22   for expansion of medical marijuana.

23                The addiction specialists have been 

24   calling out for legal, because they know how many 

25   people are self-medicating for so many issues 


                                                               2054

 1   with whatever they can get, and they would rather 

 2   that they have a safe product that can be 

 3   evaluated and measured and that it is helping to 

 4   move people off of more dangerous drugs.

 5                So I do understand this is 

 6   controversial.  This is changing laws that people 

 7   have lived under for a long time.  But it's also 

 8   true public opinion polling is in favor of this 

 9   law, Mr. President.  Not that that's how anybody 

10   should make their judgments.  But the public, by 

11   and large, does support our changing these laws.

12                The 15 other states that have passed 

13   these laws have not seen any of the horrors come 

14   to bear fruit as described by some of my 

15   colleagues convinced, I don't know, that pretty 

16   much everything imaginable bad that could happen 

17   would happen.

18                The country of Canada to our north, 

19   quite a few countries in Europe, the Middle East, 

20   Latin America have all legalized.  None of these 

21   horror stories have happened.

22                And the bottom line is we made 

23   marijuana illegal as a pattern of outgrowth on 

24   prohibition when we knew that prohibition didn't 

25   work for alcohol or pretty much anything else in 


                                                               2055

 1   this country, but we remained letting marijuana 

 2   stay on the books and continue.  And that it was 

 3   actually started out as something that was 

 4   frightening American farmers because it was 

 5   getting grown in Mexico and they were very 

 6   worried about this country of Mexico and what it 

 7   might be sending north.

 8                And so it's almost like you know 

 9   what the truth is, you know what the concerns 

10   are.  The people who said it was a gateway 

11   drug -- do you remember "Reefer Madness"?  

12   Anybody else here remember that movie?  That was 

13   made in World War I to terrify the soldiers going 

14   across to Europe from using any of these 

15   dangerous foreign items and ending up -- with 

16   foreign women, I don't know.

17                So it was "Reefer Madness."  It 

18   wasn't true then.  It's not true now.  I'm not 

19   trying to tell everyone go out and use marijuana.  

20   In fact, just the opposite.  Think really hard 

21   about it.  Be careful.  Learn about it.  But it 

22   is ridiculous that it's basically 40 percent of 

23   arrests, 40 percent of the arrests.  And we are 

24   wasting lives.  We are wasting generations of 

25   lives.  We are wasting our criminal justice 


                                                               2056

 1   budgets, our court budgets, our DAs' time and 

 2   effort.  Let them go out and deal with real 

 3   criminals and real crime.  We've got it.  Just 

 4   don't continue doing this.

 5                So thank you, Senator Lanza.  I 

 6   don't know if you had another question.

 7                SENATOR LANZA:   No, I just -- 

 8   through you, Mr. President, the question I had 

 9   was about concern for all these agencies opposing 

10   it.

11                But Mr. President, I know I am over 

12   my time.  I want to thank you, Mr. President, for 

13   your indulgence, the floor chair here on the 

14   Majority, and of course Senator Krueger.  I truly 

15   thank you all.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Are 

17   there any other Senators wishing to be heard?  

18                Seeing and hearing -- seeing and 

19   hearing none, debate is closed.

20                The Secretary will ring the bell.

21                Read the last section.

22                THE SECRETARY:   Section 64.  This 

23   act shall take effect immediately.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

25   the roll.


                                                               2057

 1                (The Secretary called the roll.)

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 3   Savino to explain her vote.

 4                SENATOR SAVINO:   Thank you, 

 5   Mr. President.

 6                Before I start, I just want to say 

 7   this has been an amazing debate here today.  I 

 8   want to thank all of my colleagues.  But I 

 9   particularly want to thank Senator Krueger.  

10                You've done an outstanding job on 

11   bringing this bill to the floor today.  It took 

12   you seven years.  And when you think about it, 

13   Senator Krueger, it's been seven years since we 

14   brought the medical cannabis bill to the floor 

15   here in the New York State Senate.  And that bill 

16   was widely debated.  That was a five-hour debate.  

17   And some of the people who voted for the bill the 

18   last time, they're no longer here, but some of 

19   them are.  In fact, Senator Lanza voted for the 

20   medical cannabis bill.  After much debate and 

21   much discussion, he accepted the -- he and many 

22   others accepted that we should legalize medical 

23   cannabis.  

24                And when we did it, it was a very 

25   narrow program.  We did not have the support from 


                                                               2058

 1   the Executive that we really wanted.  He was very 

 2   concerned about the creation of a medical 

 3   cannabis program here in the State of New York, 

 4   and he insisted on creating a narrow program, 

 5   very small, with limits and with a seven-year 

 6   sunset.  

 7                And over the seven years we had to 

 8   increase the program and improve it.  And today 

 9   we're going even further.  And I want to thank 

10   Senator Krueger for taking the ideas that I had 

11   about expanding the MRTA to include the expansion 

12   of medical.

13                This program will include a number 

14   of improvements to the medical program that will 

15   make it easier for patients to access medical 

16   products and practitioners to prescribe 

17   life-changing medical care.  

18                The changes to the medical program 

19   include expanding the list of conditions eligible 

20   for treatment with medical cannabis.  It 

21   increases the prescription supply from 30 days to 

22   a 60-day supply.  And most importantly, it allows 

23   for the whole flower to be sold, which will be 

24   incredibly important to patients.  It will bring 

25   down the cost.  


                                                               2059

 1                The bill also contemplates that 

 2   while the Office of Cannabis Management is being 

 3   set up, the Department of Health will continue 

 4   regulating the medical program and is authorized 

 5   to immediately implement these critical changes 

 6   that patients are desperate for.  

 7                I want to commend the sponsors of 

 8   the bill for having the foresight to include this 

 9   in the process and provide patients with the 

10   relief that they have been so desperate for.  

11   Expanding access to caregivers, creating more 

12   opportunities for people at various levels of the 

13   program, removing the prohibition on smoking, 

14   removing the requirement that medical cannabis 

15   has to be grown indoors, authorizing designated 

16   caregiver facilities and designated caregivers, 

17   research licenses -- the list is endless.  

18   Allowing the registered organizations to have the 

19   opportunity to participate in the adult program 

20   and doubling the number of dispensaries that they 

21   have.  

22                Those are just some of the things 

23   that are really going to go towards improving 

24   this program.  But we still have more work to do, 

25   and we'll be coming back to this floor with some 


                                                               2060

 1   ideas.  

 2                But I just want to address a couple 

 3   of the points -- and I know I'm going a little 

 4   bit over, but please indulge me, Senator 

 5   Benjamin -- that have been raised here today 

 6   about marijuana use.  

 7                And that's not to belittle any of 

 8   the concerns that have been raised, whether it be 

 9   will young people continue to use marijuana, how 

10   will we deal with our road safety issues, what 

11   kind of a message are we sending.  I would just 

12   say to my colleagues keeping it illegal will not 

13   change a single issue that was raised here today.  

14   But what it will do is continue to criminalize 

15   people unnecessarily for something that just 

16   doesn't make any sense.

17                For a state that has grappled with 

18   addiction and the opioid crisis over the past few 

19   years, I would hope that we had all learned 

20   something.  Addiction is a disease that affects 

21   just about every family -- mine no exception.  It 

22   is a biopsychosocial disease.  There is not one 

23   single drug that takes you down that path.  It's 

24   in you.  You've either inherited it, you've been 

25   exposed to it, you've been socialized to it.  So 


                                                               2061

 1   it's not what takes you down the path.  So the 

 2   idea of the gateway drug is really just somewhat 

 3   silly.  

 4                We should have learned from this 

 5   experience, though.  For too many years we have 

 6   created a system where we have this idea of good 

 7   drugs and bad drugs.  If you get addicted to a 

 8   good drug, we save a chair for you in a 12-step 

 9   program.  If your addiction is to a bad drug, we 

10   save a jail cell for you.  That's what we're 

11   trying to correct here today with this.

12                We're not going to solve addiction.  

13   What we are doing is rightsizing or correcting a 

14   system that says if you have a drug problem and 

15   this is it, you go to jail.  If you're addicted 

16   to alcohol, we send you to an AA meeting.  That 

17   doesn't make any sense.  

18                We can fix that.  We can create a 

19   legal, regulated market.  We can derive some 

20   revenue from it.  We can resocialize the way 

21   people think about marijuana.  And we can also 

22   make sure that young people don't get access to 

23   it.  That's what today is about.  

24                And I want to thank Senator Krueger 

25   for getting us here today.  And I thank all of my 


                                                               2062

 1   colleagues for their thoughtful comments.  And 

 2   this is a really good day for us, and I'm just 

 3   proud to be here with you.

 4                Thank you, Mr. President.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 6   Savino to be recorded in the affirmative.

 7                I want to make the announcement that 

 8   we will be enforcing the two-minute rule.

 9                Okay, Senator Rath to explain his 

10   vote.

11                SENATOR RATH:   Thank you, 

12   Mr. President.  I rise to explain my vote.  

13                But before I do so, I want to say 

14   thank you to Sponsor Krueger and all of my 

15   colleagues for a spirited and thoughtful 

16   discussion today.  It ought to be spirited and 

17   thoughtful; the stakes are very large.  

18                I rise to explain my vote on a bill 

19   that really speaks to the misguided priorities of 

20   this chamber.  Not only does it show misguided 

21   priorities, but it also shows a lack of due 

22   diligence.  We have numerous groups coming out on 

23   this legislation to share their concerns, from 

24   PTAs to youth groups, addiction specialists, 

25   mental health experts, law enforcement and 


                                                               2063

 1   district attorneys, which was previously 

 2   mentioned.

 3                I understand that this legislation 

 4   has been around for quite some time, but that 

 5   does not mean that the necessary and important 

 6   conversations have been had with the 

 7   aforementioned groups.  And their addresses and 

 8   their concerns have not been heard.  This is 

 9   simply not the case.

10                We have law enforcement and district 

11   attorneys indicating that they do not have the 

12   tools to deal with those driving under the 

13   influence of marijuana.  These are the very tools 

14   that they need to keep our roads safe.  

15                Additionally, we have many areas of 

16   the state that are battling with drug 

17   addiction and the opioid crisis.  In fact, just 

18   last week in Erie County, which is a part of my 

19   Senate district, we saw five opioid-related 

20   overdoses in one day.  Drug overdose deaths and 

21   mental health crises have increased drastically 

22   during this pandemic, and this appears to be 

23   greatly underprioritized and overlooked in this 

24   legislation.

25                Aside from the community impact, the 


                                                               2064

 1   Majority continues to place power directly back 

 2   in the hands of the Governor.  The Cannabis 

 3   Control Board and the state Cannabis Advisory 

 4   Boards will be made up by a majority of Governor 

 5   appointees.  It is laughable that the Majority 

 6   continues to say that they support coequal 

 7   branches of government when they keep allowing 

 8   the centralization of power back within the 

 9   control of the Governor.

10                It is also important to remind my 

11   colleagues that our communities are facing 

12   extremely challenging times, between the ongoing 

13   pandemic, economic hardship, vaccine 

14   distribution, returning our students full-time 

15   back to school.  The list goes on and on.  And 

16   yet we are focusing on legalizing marijuana.

17                Lastly, I am deeply concerned that a 

18   driving force behind this legislation is revenue.  

19   With all the concerns laid out from the various 

20   community stakeholders --

21                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

22   Rath, how do you vote?  

23                SENATOR RATH:   -- revenue should be 

24   the least important thing and public safety the 

25   most important thing.  


                                                               2065

 1                For this reason, Mr. President, I'll 

 2   be voting in the negative.  Thank you.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 4   Rath to be recorded in the negative.

 5                Senator Harckham to explain his 

 6   vote.

 7                SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Thank you, 

 8   Mr. President.

 9                Nobody can say that Senator Krueger 

10   did not do our due diligence on this bill.  She 

11   met with group after group after group.  Every 

12   concern that was raised in my district, I brought 

13   to her, was addressed in this bill.  And it is a 

14   model of how legislation should be done -- by 

15   listening, by meeting, and by incorporating ideas 

16   to address concerns.

17                So I want to thank Senator Krueger 

18   not only for her years of work on this, but her 

19   responsiveness to constituent needs.  So it's 

20   important that we understand how much input went 

21   into this bill.  

22                And we've heard this, as 

23   Senator Krueger said, this "Reefer Madness" 

24   notion of what is going to happen.  We are not 

25   about to entice new users.  This is about taking 


                                                               2066

 1   an existing marketplace that is illegal, making 

 2   it legal, and using the tax revenue for a social 

 3   good.

 4                As somebody who's in long-term 

 5   recovery myself, I am not promoting people use 

 6   marijuana.  I don't propose -- promote that 

 7   people drink alcohol.  That is an individual 

 8   choice that adults have made.  And if people are 

 9   worried about their children, talk to your 

10   children.  Marijuana is currently being sold in 

11   every middle school and every high school in 

12   New York State.  So this law has nothing to do 

13   with enticing our children.  What we need to do 

14   is have honest conversations with our children.

15                We talk about what other states are 

16   doing.  I went to Massachusetts and spent a day 

17   in Massachusetts doing my due diligence.  And you 

18   know what they said was the number-one impact of 

19   legalization?  It was cars from New York State 

20   coming to buy marijuana.  And that's tax revenue 

21   of adults making choices leaving.  

22                Senator Krueger in this bill has 

23   addressed police and DWI, local opt-out for 

24   municipalities -- I will finish in one second, 

25   Mr. President -- as well as 40 percent going to 


                                                               2067

 1   education.  

 2                And we talk about substance use.  

 3   We've heard a lot about substance use disorder.  

 4   It has been underfunded in this state for a 

 5   decade.  And 20 percent of the revenue goes to 

 6   substance use disorder treatment and drug 

 7   education.  

 8                For those reasons, I will be voting 

 9   aye.  Thank you, Mr. President.  Thank you, 

10   Madam Chair.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

12   Harckham to be recorded in the affirmative.

13                Senator Hinchey to explain her veto.

14                SENATOR HINCHEY:   Thank you very 

15   much, Mr. President.

16                The legalization of marijuana opens 

17   up tremendous opportunities for upstate New York 

18   in districts like mine -- from economic 

19   development opportunities to supporting our main 

20   streets, to bringing in tax revenue to our local 

21   municipalities, to expanding markets for our 

22   agricultural community and our small farmers.  

23   And I personally have seen the benefits of the 

24   medical marijuana in my immediate family.

25                Legalization also opens up an entire 


                                                               2068

 1   new industry in industrialized hemp, which I 

 2   believe upstate New York could be the leader on.  

 3   This creates jobs, it helps our climate.  It's 

 4   something that we could be capitalizing on.  And 

 5   with the passage of this legislation, we can do 

 6   that and we can lead that here in New York.  

 7                This bill has married real economic 

 8   opportunities with strong social justice and 

 9   social equity.  These structures make sure that 

10   these who have been most affected by the 

11   criminalization can build a business and can 

12   benefit from this moving forward.  

13                And so with that, I would like to 

14   thank the sponsor of this bill, Senator Krueger, 

15   for working so hard and so diligently over so 

16   many years to not just get this right, but to 

17   make sure that everyone across New York State is 

18   positively impacted by the passage of this 

19   legislation.  

20                And so with that, I vote aye.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

22   Hinchey to be recorded in the affirmative.

23                Senator Jackson to explain his vote.

24                SENATOR JACKSON:   Thank you, 

25   Mr. President.


                                                               2069

 1                So, my colleagues, I rise in support 

 2   of the bill this afternoon.  But let me give a 

 3   little background, if you don't mind.  Marijuana 

 4   was first prohibited on a statewide basis in 

 5   New York in 1927, in a state statute that became 

 6   the forerunner for other broad drug laws.

 7                The Senate and the Assembly have 

 8   negotiated a three-way agreement to finally 

 9   eliminate this prohibition, legalize and regulate 

10   marijuana, and make related changes to the law.  

11                The agreement is largely based on 

12   the framework of Senator Krueger and State 

13   Assemblymember Peoples-Stokes' Marijuana 

14   Regulation and Taxation Act, incorporating some 

15   elements found in this year's Executive Budget.

16                I rise, as I said earlier, to 

17   support this bill, as a long-time supporter of 

18   the legalization of cannabis with an 

19   understanding of how New York's outdated 

20   marijuana policies have historically hurt Black 

21   and Latinx communities.  I am glad to see that 

22   our Senate majority has gotten it right.  

23                And we believe that it's time to 

24   stop the ineffective racial bias and unjust 

25   enforcement of cannabis prohibition in New York.  


                                                               2070

 1   And we came together to work in unity on a 

 2   framework for a well-regulated and inclusive 

 3   cannabis industry that centers equity, is rooted 

 4   in racial and economic justice, and reinvests in 

 5   communities that have been the most harmed by 

 6   cannabis criminalization.

 7                We made sure that this process was 

 8   not just about revenue but also about health, 

 9   environmental, racial and economic justice.  This 

10   agreement prioritizes reinvesting in our 

11   communities hardest-hit by the infamous war on 

12   drugs, like the Black and Brown neighborhoods in 

13   my district and across New York State.  And this 

14   is a win for all of us who advocate for 

15   progressive change.

16                And before I conclude, let me just 

17   explain to you some of the key elements.  All 

18   revenue raised from the sale of adult-use 

19   cannabis will go into a new Cannabis Revenue 

20   Fund.  The remaining revenues will flow in three 

21   funds:  40 percent for the State Lottery Fund for 

22   Education; 20 percent to the Drug Treatment and 

23   Public Education Fund, which will finance 

24   additional drug treatment programs, school-based 

25   prevention, early intervention and healthcare 


                                                               2071

 1   services --

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 3   Jackson --

 4                SENATOR JACKSON:   -- as well as 

 5   public health campaigns to teach the public about 

 6   responsible cannabis use; and --

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 8   Jackson --

 9                SENATOR JACKSON:   -- 40 percent to 

10   community grants --

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: -- how do 

12   you vote?  Unfortunately, we have a two-minute 

13   time limit.

14                SENATOR JACKSON:   Sure.  Thank you, 

15   Mr. President.  

16                So I rise, as I said, to thank 

17   Senator Krueger and Assembly Majority Leader 

18   Peoples-Stokes, and I vote aye on this bill.  

19   Finally, after seven years, we finally have it.  

20                Thank you.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

22   Jackson to be recorded in the affirmative.

23                Senator Mayer to explain her vote.

24                SENATOR MAYER:   Thank you, 

25   Mr. President.  


                                                               2072

 1                First I want to thank 

 2   Senator Krueger for not only her debate today, 

 3   but her willingness over the last few years to 

 4   listen to me and others who had doubts about this 

 5   bill and to work with us to address the concerns 

 6   voiced by my constituents.  And so many have been 

 7   addressed.  This is a better bill than it was, 

 8   and I'm pleased to be voting aye.

 9                There's no question that our 

10   existing policies about marijuana have failed to 

11   live up to the promises we made.  They no longer 

12   protect young people from access, as the debate 

13   made clear, nor do they protect against the 

14   terrible scourge of racial inequity that this 

15   marijuana situation has led us to.

16                So we have a glaring disparity.  And 

17   today we are taking a step forward with a 

18   thoughtful, reasoned approach that addresses many 

19   of the educational concerns I have for young 

20   people, and at the same time begins to address 

21   the terrible disparities among race and class 

22   that have plagued us.  

23                I know there are deep concerns in my 

24   district and across the state from parents and 

25   others about the impact on young children, and 


                                                               2073

 1   particularly those of early middle school age.  

 2   But there are important safeguards built into the 

 3   bill that begin to address these issues.  

 4                And I look forward to working with 

 5   the sponsor and others as we see how the bill 

 6   rolls out to make the changes that need to be 

 7   made.  I'll be listening to my law enforcement 

 8   community, to my parent community, to the school 

 9   community, to continue to improve the bill.

10                I have no illusions that we are at a 

11   difficult point.  But in balance, I support this 

12   legislation.  It is a safe and thoughtful 

13   approach to bringing more justice to New York and 

14   to addressing legitimate concerns about how to 

15   legalize recreational marijuana.

16                As I vote aye, I pledge to continue 

17   to work to listen to my constituents while we 

18   move to greater justice for all New Yorkers, 

19   which is our goal and our obligation.

20                So I want to thank not only 

21   Senator Krueger, but Senator Stewart-Cousins, our 

22   Majority Leader, for giving us a path forward to 

23   find a solution to this problem that I believe is 

24   in the best interests of all New Yorkers.  

25                I vote aye.


                                                               2074

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 2   Mayer to be recorded in the affirmative.

 3                Senator Brisport to explain his 

 4   vote.

 5                SENATOR BRISPORT:   Thank you, 

 6   Mr. President.

 7                I rise because when I was 19 and 

 8   walking through the Village with a friend, he was 

 9   yanked by a plainclothes police officer, pushed 

10   against scaffolding, and handcuffed.  His crime?  

11   Matching the physical profile of a suspected weed 

12   dealer in the area.  

13                When I asked the officer to show a 

14   badge or read my friend his rights, he pulled out 

15   his gun, pointed it directly in my face, and told 

16   me to back up.  So I'd like to be clear.  A 

17   plainclothes police officer almost shot me in the 

18   face over weed.  

19                How many would-be future State 

20   Senators have been accidental casualties of the 

21   war on drugs?  How many would-be future teachers, 

22   doctors, lawyers, scientists?  

23                Today we're talking about legalizing 

24   a substance that is safer than alcohol, and 

25   passing this bill is the rational thing to do.  


                                                               2075

 1   But anti-cannabis sentiment has also been 

 2   consciously used as a tool to criminalize, 

 3   penalize and drastically expand the scope of mass 

 4   incarceration.

 5                Passing this bill is also the just 

 6   thing to do.  I'd like to celebrate the 

 7   expungement of records for people who have 

 8   possessed or used this substance.  I'd like to 

 9   celebrate the Community Reinvestment Fund.  It's 

10   critical that as we move forward, we undo the 

11   harms that have already been caused to 

12   communities of color.  

13                We can move further.  All simple 

14   drug possession should be decriminalized.  The 

15   police should be defunded and the money 

16   redirected into drug treatment and rehabilitation 

17   so that communities can heal.  

18                The step we're taking today is a 

19   momentous step in the right direction.  I vote 

20   aye.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

22   Brisport to be recorded in the affirmative.

23                Senator Rivera to explain his vote.

24                SENATOR RIVERA:   Thank you, 

25   Mr. President.


                                                               2076

 1                Prohibition and criminalization are 

 2   racist, Mr. President.  The criminalization and 

 3   the prohibition of drugs is racist.  You can find 

 4   the evidence of it in everything that has 

 5   occurred in communities like the ones that I 

 6   represent, going back generations.  Even though 

 7   many numbers can tell you the fact that people, 

 8   regardless of their race, use drugs at about the 

 9   same rate.  

10                Funny enough, the folks who are 

11   arrested, the folks who are penalized, the folks 

12   who have their lives changed, communities that 

13   are ravaged, all just so happen to be, 

14   Mr. President, in Black and Brown communities.  

15                So what we're doing today is we're 

16   taking a step back, and then we're taking 

17   five steps forward to erase the harm -- to start 

18   to address the harm that criminalization and 

19   prohibition has done to communities like the ones 

20   that I represent.

21                The work of my colleagues needs to 

22   be lauded.  Senator Krueger, amazing job on the 

23   floor today.  The job of our leader, to bring 

24   this to the floor.  But most of all, to all of 

25   those folks and all those activists who over the 


                                                               2077

 1   years have told us how much this needs to change.  

 2                To those communities that have been 

 3   ravaged and destroyed, we've heard you, and now 

 4   we needed to fix it.  With this bill, we start on 

 5   that road.

 6                I vote aye, Mr. President.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

 8   Senator Rivera to be recorded in the affirmative.

 9                Senator Reichlin-Melnick to explain 

10   his vote.

11                SENATOR REICHLIN-MELNICK:   Thank 

12   you, Mr. President.  

13                Today's vote to legalize, regulate 

14   and tax the use of marijuana by adults is 

15   historic.  

16                In considering this issue, I have 

17   met and spoken with advocates, community members, 

18   medical professionals and members of law 

19   enforcement, some who support and some who oppose 

20   marijuana legalization.

21                This is a difficult topic.  It's one 

22   which reasonable people can disagree on.  

23   Ultimately, though, I believe that ending 

24   marijuana prohibition and bringing it out of the 

25   black market and into a well-regulated and taxed 


                                                               2078

 1   open market is an important and necessary step.

 2                Some people are asking why we're 

 3   voting to legalize marijuana.  Our current 

 4   approach is simply not working.  We spend 

 5   countless millions of dollars on law enforcement, 

 6   locking up thousands of New Yorkers for minor 

 7   violations, disproportionately in Black and 

 8   Hispanic communities.  And all for what?  A drug 

 9   that is arguably less damaging than alcohol and 

10   certainly less dangerous than legal prescription 

11   pain pills that takes the lives of tens of 

12   thousands of Americans every single year.  

13                And even on its own terms, our 

14   approach has been a failure.  Marijuana is widely 

15   available in our communities, including in high 

16   schools and even in middle schools.  Legalizing, 

17   regulating and taxing marijuana will bring the 

18   black market into the open, allowing the state to 

19   set critical safety and licensing standards that 

20   will ensure people using marijuana are doing so 

21   as safely as possible.  

22                Of course no drug comes without 

23   risks.  People can and do abuse marijuana and 

24   become addicted, as they do with alcohol.  But 

25   when people abuse alcohol, we work with them to 


                                                               2079

 1   get them help and treatment.  We don't react by 

 2   criminalizing wine and beer.  

 3                The same should be true with 

 4   marijuana.  While most who choose to use the 

 5   product will do so responsibly, we can direct the 

 6   attention of law enforcement to those who 

 7   continue to illegally deal drugs and focus health 

 8   and mental health resources to those who suffer 

 9   from addiction issues, who will now be able to 

10   seek treatment without fear of prosecution.  

11                Many other states understand this 

12   and have acted to legalize and tax marijuana, 

13   including two states that border us, 

14   Massachusetts and Vermont.  New Jersey voted last 

15   year to legalize.  Connecticut is expected to 

16   follow suit.  Millions of New Yorkers will soon 

17   be able to drive across state lines a few minutes 

18   to purchase marijuana.  If we failed to act, 

19   marijuana would be nearly as widely available as 

20   if we legalized it, but we would not get any of 

21   the benefits of increased tax revenues or the 

22   ability to --

23                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

24   Reichlin-Melnick, how do you vote?  

25                SENATOR REICHLIN-MELNICK:   -- make 


                                                               2080

 1   our own decisions about how to regulate the 

 2   market.  

 3                It's time for common sense in how we 

 4   deal with drugs.  I vote aye.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 6   Reichlin-Melnick to be recorded in the 

 7   affirmative.

 8                Senator Kaplan to explain her vote.

 9                SENATOR KAPLAN:   Thank you, 

10   Mr. President.

11                I'd like to begin by thanking the 

12   bill's sponsor, Senator Krueger, members of the 

13   Majority Conference, and the Senate staffers who 

14   have worked tirelessly on the legislation before 

15   us today.

16                This bill is a combination of years 

17   of hard work and dedication to getting the best 

18   bill possible for New Yorkers.  And I believe 

19   there have been a lot of important changes made 

20   to the legislation that will help undo the damage 

21   caused by years of failed drug policy and lay the 

22   groundwork for a safe, well-regulated, legal 

23   cannabis market that exists within a region where 

24   several states have already taken the steps to 

25   legalize recreational marijuana.


                                                               2081

 1                However, I have long-held concerns 

 2   and have spent the last few weeks speaking with 

 3   constituents, faith leaders, school 

 4   superintendents, local substance abuse experts, 

 5   and law enforcement.  And there are still valid 

 6   concerns about taking this step to legalizing 

 7   recreational marijuana at this time -- 

 8   particularly around its impact on young people, 

 9   on rates of addiction, which are already 

10   skyrocketing due to the pandemic, and on roadway 

11   safety.

12                Long Island already leads the state 

13   in traffic fatalities, especially those that 

14   involve alcohol.  And while there is promising 

15   technology on the horizon that may help law 

16   enforcement to hold impaired drivers accountable 

17   and serve as a deterrent to keep impaired 

18   individuals from getting behind the wheel in the 

19   first place, without that technology in place, I 

20   believe this effort is premature and I must cast 

21   my vote in the negative on this bill.

22                Thank you, Mr. President.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

24   Senator Kaplan to be recorded in the negative.

25                Senator Cooney to explain his vote.


                                                               2082

 1                SENATOR COONEY:   Thank you, 

 2   Mr. President.

 3                I'd like to thank the leader and 

 4   Senator Krueger for their leadership.  For those 

 5   of us who are new to the Senate, we stand upon 

 6   their shoulders and we are grateful for their 

 7   leadership in bringing this landmark legislation 

 8   today.

 9                I was proud to serve as the cochair 

10   of the Marijuana Task Force for the Black, 

11   Puerto Rican, Hispanic and Asian Caucus.  We 

12   wanted social justice to be at the center of this 

13   legislation, and it is.  

14                This was also essential to the 

15   Rochester community.  The war on drugs has 

16   decimated our Black and Brown neighborhoods.  In 

17   Monroe County, you are 16 times more likely to be 

18   arrested for a low-level marijuana drug offense 

19   if you are Black than if you are white.

20                And in addition to reversing a 

21   culture of overpolicing, this legislation 

22   reinvests in our communities.  For Rochester, 

23   this means real investment in education, in 

24   workforce training, and in drug and substance 

25   abuse programs for treatment and education.


                                                               2083

 1                I also want to note the good 

 2   progress as it relates to our existing medicinal 

 3   marijuana providers, one of which is located in 

 4   my district in Rochester.  This is good for 

 5   patients.  As of the effective date of this bill, 

 6   our medicinal marijuana providers can utilize 

 7   patient-centered improvements.  Patients can 

 8   benefit from the whole flower and physician 

 9   discretion for qualifying conditions, and will 

10   not be left behind as we pass this landmark bill.

11                Mr. President, I am proud to vote in 

12   favor of this legislation.  Thank you.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

14   Cooney to be recorded in the affirmative.

15                Senator Bailey to explain his vote.

16                SENATOR BAILEY:   Thank you, 

17   Mr. President.  

18                Let me just thank first 

19   Senator Krueger for her tireless work and effort 

20   on this bill, Senator Savino for her work on the 

21   medical program.

22                You know, I remember June 20, 2019, 

23   when we passed the decriminalization of 

24   marijuana.  And it was the five-year anniversary 

25   of the medical program.  And every time, we've 


                                                               2084

 1   done some incremental work.  But today we've 

 2   achieved greatness, in my opinion.  

 3                In addition to Senator Krueger and 

 4   Senator Savino, I want to thank our great leader, 

 5   I want to thank all of the advocates.  I want to 

 6   thank Kassandra Frederique and Chris Alexander, 

 7   who lobbied me actually for a sealing bill when 

 8   we were in the Minority.  Who would have thought 

 9   that we would have made it this far.

10                So we think about these things, 

11   about justice, inequity and fairness.  And it's 

12   about doing the right thing.  Because as you can 

13   tell, Mr. President -- well, not you can tell, 

14   I'm going to tell you, I am a member of the 

15   never-tried-it caucus.  But even though I am a 

16   member of the never-tried-it caucus, I think 

17   about the inequity and the injustice and 

18   unfairness about the arrests that's happened.  

19   We've heard things about 68-to-1 black arrests 

20   versus white arrests in Buffalo.  We've heard 

21   things about in the fourth quarter of 2020, 149 

22   arrests in New York City.  Of those, 80 were 

23   Black, six were white.  

24                I think about Tupac when he said:  

25   "And still I see no changes, can't a brother get 


                                                               2085

 1   a little peace?  There's war in the streets and 

 2   war in the Middle East.  Instead of war on 

 3   poverty, they got a war on drugs, so the police 

 4   can bother me."  

 5                And we think about this Nixonian war 

 6   on drugs where it's been admitted that there was 

 7   a war on drugs to intentionally divide the Black 

 8   community.  And now, we finally are looking to 

 9   get a piece of the pie.  

10                But most importantly, that piece of 

11   the pie, economic sustenance.  Forty percent 

12   going into social equity.  Forty percent going 

13   into education, making sure that as 

14   Senator Krueger has said, she's not espousing the 

15   use of it, but she is making sure that the money 

16   goes to where it needs to go.  And that's so 

17   critical.

18                You know, we talk about the phrasing 

19   of impact and we talk about a gateway, of this 

20   being a gateway drug.  Mr. President, for so long 

21   the gate has been locked for people in 

22   communities of color.  We have not been able to 

23   access the pathway.  The gateway will be open, 

24   cooperative economics.  All of these things that 

25   we have been deprived of in the State of 


                                                               2086

 1   New York, relating to the unequal and unjust 

 2   enforcement of marijuana and cannabis in this 

 3   state, will end with this bill.  

 4                I proudly vote aye, Mr. President.  

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 6   Bailey to be recorded in the affirmative.

 7                Senator Sanders to explain his vote.

 8                SENATOR SANDERS:   Mr. President, 

 9   thank you.  Thank you to Senator Krueger.  Thank 

10   you to all of the people who have been involved 

11   in this.  Time does not allow me to give them 

12   their proper respect.

13                Today I bring you the greetings and 

14   the position of the 10th Senatorial District on 

15   this issue.  We are no stranger to these things.  

16   We have heard that there was a war on drugs.  All 

17   we saw was a war on the poor.  All we saw was the 

18   biggest criminals never went to jail.  I'm 

19   talking not simply the cartels, but the banks 

20   that allowed them to wash their monies and get 

21   away with these things.  These folk never went to 

22   jail.  

23                If we want a true war on this stuff, 

24   then we should have a true war.

25                Now, I am not really in favor of 


                                                               2087

 1   this, I must admit.  My colleague before said 

 2   that he was of the type that never tried it.  And 

 3   I remember Bill Clinton, the President, said that 

 4   he never inhaled.  Me and my group, we said we 

 5   never exhaled.  

 6                So I know a little something of 

 7   this.  And I know the dangers of this.  And on a 

 8   personal level, I urge everyone not to 

 9   participate.  But the greatest danger is the mass 

10   incarceration that this thing brought about.  The 

11   greater danger was the incredible injustices 

12   wreaked upon these communities.  The greater 

13   danger was the death and destruction of human 

14   life and potential by jail and things of that 

15   nature.  Those were the greatest dangers.

16                Now, there's some things good about 

17   this bill.  We can speak of the economic 

18   inequality, the equity, social equity that the 

19   Senators and Assemblypeople tried to put in here.  

20   These things are good.  As the author of MWBE, I 

21   absolutely applaud those things.

22                Respecting the time that we had, if 

23   we had time, we really could speak and go into 

24   this.  But time is not our friend.  

25                I will say this.  On behalf of the 


                                                               2088

 1   good people of the 10th Senatorial District, 

 2   judging and weighing the legalization versus the 

 3   continued criminalization, we say we're in favor 

 4   of this bill with all the perturbations that we 

 5   have, but soundly --

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 7   Sanders, how do you vote?

 8                SENATOR SANDERS:   -- in favor of 

 9   this bill.

10                Thank you very much, Mr. President.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

12   Sanders to be recorded in the affirmative.

13                Senator Sepúlveda to explain his 

14   vote.

15                SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Thank you, 

16   Mr. President, for allowing me to explain my 

17   vote.  

18                I rise today as a person who 

19   enthusiastically will vote in the affirmative for 

20   this bill.  For far too long, Black and Brown 

21   communities have been disproportionately 

22   penalized for the use and sale of marijuana.  

23                As we all know, the war on drugs was 

24   a war on people, a war on people of color, a war 

25   on people that look like me, a war that was 


                                                               2089

 1   grossly unfair to our communities.

 2                The legalization of cannabis, 

 3   marijuana, pot or whatever term you would like to 

 4   use is not enough, and that's why my colleagues 

 5   fought hard to address the wrongs of this war on 

 6   drugs.  The bill will help the state provide 

 7   40 percent revenue for our schools, 20 percent 

 8   for drug treatment, and it will reinvest in 

 9   communities banned and harmed by the war on drugs 

10   through automatic expungement on convictions that 

11   are no longer criminalized, by establishing a 

12   50 percent licenses going to equity application 

13   and the elimination of penalties for possession 

14   of less than 3 ounces.

15                In 2019 we met in this chamber to 

16   vote to decriminalize the use of marijuana.  

17   Today we meet in the same chamber to finally 

18   legalize it and repair our communities.  I would 

19   like to thank Senator Krueger, our Majority 

20   Leader, Andrea Stewart-Cousins, my colleagues in 

21   the Senate, my former colleague in the Assembly, 

22   Assemblymember Peoples-Stokes, and the advocates 

23   for working tirelessly for the language that we 

24   could all agree to.

25                I could not in good faith vote for a 


                                                               2090

 1   bill that did not include automatic expungement 

 2   or that did not give back to the communities that 

 3   the system has taken so much from.  This 

 4   legalization assures that everyone, especially 

 5   those previously targeted, will have a chance to 

 6   participate in this new industry.  

 7                The legalization of cannabis is long 

 8   overdue.  And for that reason, I vote in the 

 9   affirmative.  Thank you.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

11   Sepúlveda to be recorded in the affirmative.

12                Senator Benjamin to explain his 

13   vote.  

14                SENATOR BENJAMIN:   Thank you, 

15   Mr. President.  

16                I rise as a member of the 

17   definitely-tried-it caucus.  And I want to start 

18   off by saying a thank you to our good friend 

19   Senator Krueger for all of her hard work and for 

20   her answering a lot of questions.  As she knows, 

21   I had a lot of questions and a lot of concerns 

22   around our bill.  And I'll tell you why.  I only 

23   have two minutes, so I'll be brief.  

24                I'll tell you why.  You know, I was 

25   very concerned that this bill, when we legalized 


                                                               2091

 1   it, did not go the same way as medical marijuana, 

 2   where the majority of the licenses were not 

 3   provided in a diverse way.  And I did not want a 

 4   scenario where we would legalize marijuana and 

 5   the cultivation, processing, distribution and the 

 6   sale of cannabis would be not in hands of the 

 7   people who have been primarily incarcerated 

 8   because of marijuana.

 9                I believed, and I believe, that 

10   there should be connectivity here.  That those 

11   who have been incarcerated, communities that have 

12   been harmed the most, should be the ones that 

13   economically benefit the most from the sale of 

14   marijuana.  

15                I believe very strongly that we need 

16   to monitor the license distribution.  We need to 

17   be very clear about making sure that there's a 

18   transition from the legacy businesses to this 

19   legal market.  And I am taking a leap of faith 

20   that we will make sure that we focus on that as 

21   much as we focus on the social justice issues, 

22   which I am completely in support of.

23                Let me thank Yasmin Cornelius from 

24   the New York Minority Alliance, Regina Smith from 

25   the Harlem Business Alliance, and Kassandra 


                                                               2092

 1   Frederique from the Drug Policy Alliance.  

 2                And I also want to thank Chris 

 3   Alexander for really helping me to come to terms 

 4   that this bill will address not just social 

 5   justice, but economic empowerment for communities 

 6   that have been most harmed by marijuana.  

 7                And with that, I proudly vote aye.

 8                Thank you, Mr. President.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

10   Benjamin to be recorded in the affirmative.

11                Senator Krueger to explain her vote.

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you, 

13   Mr. President.

14                I have so many people to thank, and 

15   I won't do it, so I will get in trouble 

16   afterwards.  

17                But it's a historic day for 

18   New York.  I could not be more proud to cast my 

19   vote to end the failed policies of marijuana 

20   prohibition in our state and begin the process of 

21   building a fair and inclusive legal market for 

22   adult-use cannabis.

23                It has been a long road to get here, 

24   but it will be worth the wait.  The bill we have 

25   held out for in this state will create a 


                                                               2093

 1   nation-leading model for legalization.  

 2                New York's program will not just 

 3   talk the talk on racial justice, it will walk the 

 4   walk.  Ending racially disparate enforcement that 

 5   was endemic to prohibition, automatically 

 6   expunging the records of those who were caught up 

 7   in the so-called war on drugs.  And channeling 

 8   40 percent of the revenue back into the most 

 9   hard-hit communities and 20 percent of the 

10   revenue into treatment for more serious drug 

11   addictions.  And then another 40 percent into 

12   education again in the communities that need it 

13   most.  Not to mention building a multi-billion- 

14   dollar industry for New York that encourages 

15   small businesses while balancing safety with 

16   economic growth.  

17                We would not be here today without 

18   the dedicated work of my colleague and partner, 

19   Assemblymember Majority Leader Crystal 

20   Peoples-Stokes, who I believe is debating this 

21   bill right now across the aisle in the Assembly.

22                And endless advocates and activists, 

23   like the Drug Policy Alliance and many others.  

24   Like Chris Alexander, who started out as a 

25   staffer on the bill and became a dear friend.  


                                                               2094

 1   Even after he left the Senate, he's continued to 

 2   work so hard to make sure we get to this day.

 3                I particularly want to thank my 

 4   leader, Senator Stewart-Cousins, for her 

 5   leadership that helps to make historic 

 6   progressive action like this a reality.  

 7                I want to thank my colleagues for 

 8   their support of this legislation, many of whom 

 9   told me I was crazy when I started down this 

10   road.  And I wondered if I was crazy, because I'm 

11   not the obvious person to carry this bill.  I 

12   don't use marijuana.  I don't particularly like 

13   it.  It's not my community that's paying the 

14   price of our failed drug wars.  

15                But I saw such injustice going on.  

16   And for young people whose lives were being 

17   destroyed for doing something I did when I was a 

18   kid, and nobody tried to put a gun to my head, 

19   and nobody tried to put me in jail, because I was 

20   this nice white girl.  And that there was 

21   something fundamentally wrong with how we were 

22   approaching this whole issue.

23                So I am very proud to have played a 

24   role in what was an enormous task to get us here 

25   today.  


                                                               2095

 1                Thank you, Mr. President.  I vote 

 2   yes.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:    

 4   Senator Krueger to be recorded in the 

 5   affirmative.

 6                Announce the results.

 7                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 8   Calendar 641, those Senators voting in the 

 9   negative are Senators Addabbo, Akshar, Borrello, 

10   Boyle, Felder, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Jordan, 

11   Kaplan, Lanza, Martucci, Mattera, Oberacker, 

12   O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rath, Ritchie, Serino, 

13   Stec, Tedisco and Weik.

14                Ayes, 40.  Nays, 23.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

16   is passed.

17                Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

18   reading of the controversial calendar.

19                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you, 

20   Mr. President.  

21                Is there any further business at the 

22   desk?

23                ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   There is 

24   no further business at the desk.

25                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I move to 


                                                               2096

 1   adjourn until tomorrow, Wednesday, March 31st, at 

 2   11:00 a.m.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   On 

 4   motion, the Senate stands adjourned until 

 5   Wednesday, March 31st, at 11:00 a.m.

 6                (Whereupon, at 7:22 p.m., the Senate 

 7   adjourned.)

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