Regular Session - December 22, 2022

                                                                   6009

 1                NEW YORK STATE SENATE

 2                          

 3                          

 4               THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

 5                          

 6                          

 7                          

 8                          

 9                  ALBANY, NEW YORK

10                  December 22, 2022

11                     12:30 p.m.

12                          

13                          

14                   REGULAR SESSION

15  

16  

17  

18  SENATOR JAMAAL T. BAILEY, Acting President

19  ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary

20  

21  

22  

23  

24  

25  


                                                               6010

 1                P R O C E E D I N G S

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 3    Senate will come to order.  

 4                 I ask everyone present to please 

 5    rise and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

 6                 SENATOR O'MARA:   I call for a 

 7    quorum.

 8                 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 

 9    the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

11    O'Mara.

12                 SENATOR O'MARA:   I call for a 

13    quorum.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

15    Secretary shall read the names of the members 

16    present to ascertain that a quorum exists.

17                 Call the roll.  

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Addabbo.

19                 SENATOR ADDABBO:   Here.

20                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Akshar, 

21    excused.  

22                 Senator Bailey.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Present.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Biaggi.

25                 SENATOR BIAGGI:   Present.


                                                               6011

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Borrello.

 2                 (No response.)

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Breslin.

 4                 SENATOR BRESLIN:  Here.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Brisport.

 6                 SENATOR BRISPORT:   Here.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Brooks.

 8                 SENATOR BROOKS:   Here.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Brouk.

10                 SENATOR BROUK:   Here.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Cleare.

12                 SENATOR CLEARE:   Here.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Comrie.

14                 SENATOR COMRIE:   Here.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Cooney.

16                 SENATOR COONEY:   Present.

17                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Felder.

18                 (No response.)

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Gallivan, 

20    excused.  

21                 Senator Gaughran.

22                 SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Here.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Gianaris.

24                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Present.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Gounardes.


                                                               6012

 1                 SENATOR GOUNARDES:   Present.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Griffo.  

 3                 (No response.)

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Harckham.

 5                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Here.   

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Helming.  

 7                 (No response.)

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Hinchey.

 9                 SENATOR HINCHEY:   Here.   

10                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Hoylman.  

11                 (No response.)

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Jackson.

13                 SENATOR JACKSON:   Here.  

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Jordan.

15                 (No response.)

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Kaplan, 

17    excused.  

18                 Senator Kavanagh.

19                 (No response.)

20                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Kennedy.

21                 SENATOR KENNEDY:   Here.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Krueger.

23                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Here.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Lanza.

25                 (No response.)


                                                               6013

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Liu.

 2                 SENATOR LIU:   Here.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Mannion.

 4                 SENATOR MANNION:   Here.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Martucci.

 6                 (No response.)

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Mattera.  

 8                 (No response.)

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator May.

10                 SENATOR MAY:   Here.  

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Mayer.

12                 SENATOR MAYER:   Here.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Myrie.

14                 SENATOR MYRIE:   Here.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Oberacker.

16                 (No response.)

17                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator O'Mara.

18                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Present.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Ortt.

20                 (No response.)

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Palumbo.

22                 (No response.)

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Parker.

24                 SENATOR PARKER:   Present.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Persaud.


                                                               6014

 1                 SENATOR PERSAUD:   Present.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Ramos.

 3                 SENATOR RAMOS:   Presente.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Rath.  

 5                 (No response.)

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator 

 7    Reichlin-Melnick.

 8                 SENATOR REICHLIN-MELNICK:   Present.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Ritchie, 

10    excused.  

11                 Senator Rivera.

12                 SENATOR RIVERA:   Aquí.  

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Ryan.

14                 SENATOR RYAN:   Here.  

15                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Salazar.

16                 SENATOR SALAZAR:   Present.

17                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Sanders.

18                 SENATOR SANDERS:   Present.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   A quorum 

20    is present, and the Senate may proceed.  

21                 In the absence of clergy, let us bow 

22    our heads in a moment of silent reflection or 

23    prayer.

24                 (Whereupon, the assemblage respected 

25    a moment of silence.)


                                                               6015

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 2    reading of the Journal.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   In Senate, 

 4    Wednesday, December 21, 2022, the Senate met 

 5    pursuant to adjournment.  The Journal of Monday, 

 6    December 19, 2022, was read and approved.  On 

 7    motion, the Senate adjourned.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Without 

 9    objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

10                 Presentation of petitions.

11                 Messages from the Assembly.

12                 Messages from the Governor.

13                 Reports of standing committees.

14                 Reports of select committees.

15                 Communications and reports from 

16    state officers.

17                 Motions and resolutions.

18                 Senator Gianaris.

19                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, I 

20    move to adopt the Resolution Calendar.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   All in 

22    favor of adopting the Resolution Calendar please 

23    signify by saying aye.

24                 (Response of "Aye.")

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Opposed, 


                                                               6016

 1    nay.

 2                 (No response.)

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 4    Resolution Calendar is adopted.

 5                 Senator Gianaris.

 6                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   At this time, 

 7    Mr. President, we will call an immediate meeting 

 8    of the Rules Committee in Room 332.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   There 

10    will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 

11    Committee in Room 332.

12                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   The Senate will 

13    stand at ease.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   The Senate will 

15    stand at ease.

16                 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease 

17    at 12:34 p.m.)

18                 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at 

19    12:40 p.m.)

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

21    Senate will return to order.

22                 Senator Gianaris, I assume that was 

23    not "Hip-Hop Parade"; I assume that you were 

24    trying to get my attention.

25                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   (Laughing.) 


                                                               6017

 1    Thank you, Mr. President.

 2                 I believe there's a report of the 

 3    Rules Committee at the desk.  Can we take that 

 4    up, please.  

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 6    Secretary will read.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator 

 8    Stewart-Cousins, from the Committee on Rules, 

 9    reports the following bill:  Senate Print 9617, 

10    by Senator Stewart-Cousins, an act to amend the 

11    Legislative Law.

12                 The bill reports direct to third 

13    reading.

14                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   I move to accept 

15    the report of the Rules Committee.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   All those 

17    in favor of accepting the report of the Rules 

18    Committee signify by saying aye.

19                 (Response of "Aye.")

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Opposed, 

21    nay.

22                 (Response of "Nay.")

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

24    report of the Rules Committee is accepted.  

25                 Senator Gianaris.


                                                               6018

 1                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Let's take up 

 2    the reading of the supplemental calendar, please.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 4    Secretary will read.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 6    1927, Senate --

 7                 SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Lay it 

 9    aside.

10                 That completes the reading of the 

11    supplemental calendar.

12                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Can we please 

13    take up the reading of the controversial calendar 

14    now.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

16    Secretary will ring the bell.

17                 The Secretary will read.

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

19    1927, Senate Print 9617, by 

20    Senator Stewart-Cousins, an act to amend the 

21    Legislative Law.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

23    Lanza, happy holidays.  Merry Christmas, Happy 

24    Hanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa.  Why do you rise?

25                 SENATOR LANZA:   All the best to 


                                                               6019

 1    you, Mr. President.

 2                 I rise because I believe, 

 3    Mr. President, that there is an amendment at the 

 4    desk.  I waive the reading of that amendment and 

 5    I ask that you recognize Senator Helming to be 

 6    heard.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

 8    you, Senator Lanza.  

 9                 Upon review of this amendment, in 

10    accordance with Rule 6, Section 4B, I rule it 

11    nongermane and out of order at this time.

12                 SENATOR LANZA:   Accordingly, 

13    Mr. President, I appeal the ruling of the chair 

14    and ask that you recognize Senator Helming.  

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

16    appeal has been made and recognized, and 

17    Senator Helming may be heard.

18                 SENATOR HELMING:   Thank you, 

19    Mr. President.  Happy holidays to you.

20                 Mr. President, I rise to appeal the 

21    ruling of the chair.  The proposed amendment 

22    before you is germane to the bill at hand because 

23    the bill before this chamber today provides a pay 

24    raise for members of the Legislature.  

25                 It has been widely reported that 


                                                               6020

 1    legislative members in both chambers deserve a 

 2    pay raise due to their hard work and to address 

 3    the rising cost of living.

 4                 Mr. President, I agree that the cost 

 5    of living is skyrocketing.  But what we need to 

 6    focus on and what we need to remember is that the 

 7    cost of daily living is squeezing everyone in 

 8    this state.  This body should take immediate 

 9    action to provide some relief for our 

10    constituents rather than prioritizing our own 

11    incomes.

12                 New Yorkers are struggling, we all 

13    know this -- struggling to heat their homes, to 

14    keep their lights on, and to feed their families.  

15    They're trying to manage their budgets at this 

16    time of year, trying to stretch them during the 

17    holidays.  Many are facing a new year filled with 

18    concerns about job security and wage freezes.

19                 Our small local businesses are still 

20    suffering.  They're suffering from the increasing 

21    costs as well as still trying to recover from the 

22    pandemic and mandated government closures.

23                 And Mr. President, I sure hope we 

24    can all agree our state is facing an 

25    unprecedented affordability crisis.  And if we're 


                                                               6021

 1    being honest, we're also facing an unprecedented 

 2    crime crisis.

 3                 Calling a special session to vote on 

 4    a member pay increase makes it appear that many 

 5    in this chamber are out of touch and more 

 6    concerned with self-enrichment than providing 

 7    much-needed relief for our constituents and our 

 8    local employers.

 9                 Mr. President, rather than provide a 

10    pay hike to the 213 elected officials in both 

11    bodies, on behalf of our Republican Conference I 

12    have proposed a five-point plan that prioritizes 

13    and provides relief to millions -- millions of 

14    New Yorkers.  

15                 The first part of my proposal, 

16    Part A, deals with a state spending cap.  This 

17    part would statutorily establish a 2 percent cap 

18    on state spending.  It would increase the amount 

19    that the state is authorized to deposit in the 

20    state's rainy day reserve fund.  This would 

21    effectively limit out-of-control state spending 

22    and tackle sky-high inflation.

23                 The second part of our plan, Part B, 

24    deals with reducing income taxes by indexing to 

25    inflation.  So many of us, we hear the reports 


                                                               6022

 1    all the time -- the most recent one that I saw 

 2    was from WalletHub, and it reported New York is 

 3    the 2022 state with the most tax burden.  Our 

 4    constituents are looking to us, their elected 

 5    leaders, for help to reverse this trend.  

 6                 Part B would do this by providing 

 7    New York taxpayers with a roughly 300 million 

 8    annual tax break.  Part B would prevent stealth 

 9    tax increases by adjusting tax brackets for 

10    inflation, commonly known as indexing.  Inflation 

11    causes what is known as bracket creep, which 

12    results in our taxpayers moving into higher tax 

13    brackets.  This results in taxpayers paying 

14    higher taxes without any real increase to their 

15    income.  

16                 During this period of rampant 

17    inflation, taxpayers will face stealth tax 

18    increases never approved for or voted on or 

19    discussed by their elected lawmakers.

20                 The third part of our plan, Part C, 

21    would increase child tax credits, something that 

22    we all hear is desperately needed.  This part 

23    would increase and expand the value of tax 

24    credits, which would help to make childcare more 

25    affordable for struggling New York families.  


                                                               6023

 1    Currently the Empire State Child Credit only 

 2    applies to children above the age of 4.  This 

 3    proposal would eliminate that threshold and make 

 4    it apply to all children.  

 5                 Additionally, this proposal would 

 6    recouple New York's tax credit to the federal tax 

 7    credit, which would provide roughly 500 million 

 8    in aid to New York's parents.  This change, I 

 9    believe, will also help us stabilize the 

10    workforce shortages impacting every business 

11    sector, from Main Street businesses to 

12    manufacturing, from our schools and our medical 

13    facilities to our nursing homes.

14                 The fourth part of our plan, Part D, 

15    would reduce the tax burden for seniors with 

16    private pensions.  I'm sure everyone in this 

17    chamber, like me, has heard from concerned 

18    seniors in their district.  Inflation and rising 

19    costs are forcing many of our seniors to make 

20    difficult choices:  Medications or groceries, gas 

21    in the car or pay the utility bills.

22                 Part D allows seniors to keep more 

23    of their hard-earned retirement income by 

24    increasing the value of private pensions and 

25    annuities that are tax-free for people over the 


                                                               6024

 1    age of 59½, from its current value of $20,000.  

 2    The amount would be increased as follows.  In 

 3    2023, it would go up to 25,000; in '24, 30,000; 

 4    in '25, 35,000; in '26 and beyond, to $40,000.

 5                 The final part of our five-point 

 6    plan, Part E, is a fix to Unemployment Insurance 

 7    Fund issues by establishing set contribution 

 8    rates and a reserve fund.  This part would 

 9    alleviate the billions of dollars in unemployment 

10    insurance taxes and assessments on small business 

11    as a result of the -- (pause for background noise 

12    to subside).  This part would alleviate the 

13    billions in unemployment insurance taxes and 

14    assessments on small businesses as a result of 

15    pandemic-related job loss, failed state policy, 

16    forced closures, and rampant fraud.  On fraud 

17    alone, the Comptroller's office recently 

18    identified $11 billion in improper unemployment 

19    payments.

20                 Part E would protect businesses from 

21    these tax increases by reducing rates, paying 

22    down the deficit, and creating an unemployment 

23    insurance insolvency reserve fund.  

24                 So, Mr. President, with your support 

25    and with the support of all of our colleagues in 


                                                               6025

 1    this chamber, we can pass this amendment and show 

 2    our constituents and our local employers that 

 3    they are our top priority -- not our own 

 4    self-interest.

 5                 For all these reasons, 

 6    Mr. President, I strongly urge you to reconsider 

 7    your ruling.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

 9    you, Senator Helming.  

10                 I would like to remind the house 

11    that the vote is on the procedures of the house 

12    and the ruling of the chair.

13                 Those in favor of overruling the 

14    chair, signify by saying aye.

15                 SENATOR LANZA:   Request a show of 

16    hands.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   So 

18    ordered.

19                 Call the roll.

20                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 16.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

23    ruling of the chair stands, and the bill-in-chief 

24    is before the house.

25                 The Secretary will ring the bell.


                                                               6026

 1                 The Secretary will read.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 3    1927, Senate Print 9617, by 

 4    Senator Stewart-Cousins, an act to amend the 

 5    Legislative Law.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 7    Borrello, why do you rise?

 8                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   First of all, to 

 9    say Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Merry 

11    Christmas, Senator Borrello.  Happy Holidays.

12                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you, 

13    Mr. President.  

14                 Would the sponsor yield for some 

15    questions -- for a question.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

17    sponsor yield? 

18                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

19    Senator Krueger will be handling debate for the 

20    Majority.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

22    you, Senator Gianaris.

23                 Senator Krueger, do you yield?  

24                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do, sir.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 


                                                               6027

 1    Krueger yields.

 2                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   First of all, 

 3    Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays.

 4                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.

 5                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So just 

 6    curious -- and I'm sure a lot of New Yorkers are 

 7    curious -- we're here a couple of days before 

 8    Christmas.  So why are we here right now at this 

 9    particular time to vote on this single bill?  

10    What's the reason?

11                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Because 

12    technically you cannot vote for a salary raise 

13    for the existing legislative session, only for 

14    the next Legislature.

15                 So come January 1, some of us won't 

16    be here anymore because we are not returning, and 

17    some new people on both sides will be here, and 

18    this salary raise will apply to them.  Now, when 

19    I say "them," in your and my case, I think it 

20    includes both of us as part of "them." 

21                 But that is why we're doing it now, 

22    because otherwise any salary increase wouldn't go 

23    into effect until January '25.

24                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.

25                 Mr. President, will the sponsor 


                                                               6028

 1    continue to yield?  

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 3    sponsor yield?

 4                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 6    sponsor yields.

 7                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So we have a few 

 8    days left in the year, and that's an 

 9    understandable explanation as to why.  But yet we 

10    were -- we could have done this three months ago, 

11    six months ago, before the election -- which 

12    probably would have been a nice thing for the 

13    people of New York to understand this was the 

14    intent.  

15                 Why did we wait so long, until just 

16    a few days before the end of the year?  

17                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Because for any 

18    number of reasons -- and there are many -- there 

19    have been whole sections of decades where we 

20    didn't do increases in salary.  And then we had a 

21    commission and then we had a court case, and we 

22    couldn't do any action during the court case.  

23                 And then you need a governor who's 

24    going to actually sign this, because otherwise 

25    what is the point.  And we've had governors who 


                                                               6029

 1    didn't want to sign this or governors who seemed 

 2    to think they could do trading deals on other 

 3    things the Legislature didn't support in 

 4    exchange.

 5                 So we do find ourselves in this rare 

 6    moment of the history that I have been part of 

 7    where we can vote for it for the next session, we 

 8    have justification for it.  And sort of the stars 

 9    have aligned that we believe both houses will 

10    pass this and a governor will sign it.

11                 Now, I've been here since 2002, and 

12    I believe this will only be the second raise the 

13    Legislature has seen actually since 1998.  So 

14    it's not like we do this very often.

15                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.  

16                 Mr. President, will the sponsor 

17    continue to yield.  

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

19    sponsor yield? 

20                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, certainly.  

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

22    Krueger yields.

23                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So I understand 

24    the Legislature -- that there was some litigation 

25    that was going on.  But you bring up the 


                                                               6030

 1    Governor.  And it actually brought up a thought 

 2    in my head.  

 3                 Now, let's just assume for a moment 

 4    that every Democrat here votes for this and every 

 5    Republican votes against it.  You have a 

 6    supermajority, which is enough to override a 

 7    veto.  Yet in the three years I've been here, 

 8    I've never seen you override a veto.  

 9                 In fact, we're coming here today 

10    after the Governor vetoed several bills, some of 

11    which that were really important to a lot of 

12    people on -- my friends on the other side of the 

13    aisle, that you could very easily override the 

14    vote on.  You've got things that would help folks 

15    who are developmentally disabled, Senator 

16    Mannion's bill; things to help working seniors, 

17    Senator May's bill; dyslexia, climate change, 

18    shoreline flooding.  Yet this body has never 

19    overridden a veto.  

20                 Why wouldn't you do that?  And if 

21    you were to -- if she were to veto this pay 

22    increase, you could override that.  Why do we 

23    have to wait for a Governor that would actually, 

24    you know, sign this, because clearly you don't 

25    need that.


                                                               6031

 1                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Well, I don't 

 2    know if that's actually true.  Certainly evidence 

 3    is even when either party in this house has had a 

 4    supermajority, or the Assembly across the hall, 

 5    it's been extraordinarily rare, as you point out, 

 6    for people to actually pull off enough votes for 

 7    a veto of the Governor.

 8                 So I, standing here today, certainly 

 9    couldn't say in honesty that I imagined that we 

10    could get 42 votes to override any specific veto, 

11    nor that the Assembly could get the required 

12    number that they have, 76 -- a hundred votes, 

13    thank you.  Oh, right, two-thirds, hello -- a 

14    hundred votes to override a vote.  I'm not sure 

15    that that would be possible today either.  I 

16    guess we would have to explore that if the option 

17    was before us.

18                 But right now, we're hoping that we 

19    have the votes to pass this bill.  The Assembly, 

20    we believe, is also intending to pass the bill; I 

21    know they are going to the floor or have gone to 

22    the floor today as well on the same bill.  And I 

23    believe that the Governor will sign this.  I 

24    don't know, but I believe.

25                 So I don't think the supermajority 


                                                               6032

 1    question comes into play today.  But I think it 

 2    also highlights what I think we all know.  Even 

 3    if you have a supermajority on any given day on 

 4    any given bill, it's statistically very rare that 

 5    100 percent of us, in the case of the Senate 

 6    Dems, would be in exact agreement and you could 

 7    get all of us to vote in a certain way.  We have 

 8    differences in opinion in our conference as I am 

 9    sure you have differences of opinion in your 

10    conference.  That's what makes, you know, the 

11    magic of democracy.

12                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.

13                 Mr. President, will the sponsor 

14    continue to yield?  

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

16    Krueger, do you yield?  

17                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I will, 

18    Mr. President.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator  

20    Krueger yields.

21                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So this salary 

22    increase is $32,000.  Unprecedented.  There are 

23    certainly people that don't make that in a year, 

24    and we're going to give this in one fell swoop.  

25    Why that number?  Why $32,000?  


                                                               6033

 1                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   So it is 

 2    factoring in where the commission was likely or 

 3    had recommended we go by 2021.  And now we're 

 4    talking about '23, so we made some adjustments 

 5    going up from where '21 to '23 would bring us.  

 6                 And we did factor in an inflation 

 7    rate.  And as you pointed out -- or, excuse me, 

 8    as your colleague pointed out, we are living in a 

 9    time of very high inflation.  

10                 We're also, frankly, assuming that 

11    we will go many, many years again before we 

12    increase the salary, based on the statistics of 

13    how infrequently we raise our salaries.  And I 

14    know that I have had constituents tell me they 

15    don't understand how you would have a job that 

16    didn't do any increases in salary for 18, 

17    20 years at a time, how that is that possible.

18                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

19    will the sponsor continue to yield?  

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

21    sponsor yield? 

22                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

24    sponsor yields.

25                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So you brought 


                                                               6034

 1    up the salary commission.  Which, yes, they had 

 2    recommended originally to go to 130,000 in '21.  

 3    So two years later, it's $12,000 over two years 

 4    above their recommendation.  That's -- even with 

 5    this high inflation we're experiencing now, it's 

 6    still well above the rate of inflation.  

 7                 So, I guess, how do we justify 

 8    $12,000 over the recommendation that would have 

 9    only gone into place last year?  That's my 

10    question.

11                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   So what we 

12    actually attempted to do was to calculate what 

13    the inflation impact would have been if we were 

14    correctly adjusting our salary over time for -- 

15    over the last 20 years.  

16                 So if we had just done -- so forget 

17    what the commission recommended.  If we had just 

18    done an inflationary adjustment from 79,500, 

19    which it was 20 years ago, to today, we'd 

20    actually be raising our salary to 145,000.  So 

21    we're actually raising it to below what inflation 

22    would have put us at.

23                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Will the sponsor 

24    continue to yield?

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 


                                                               6035

 1    sponsor yield?

 2                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 4    sponsor yields.

 5                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So it was 

 6    really, in essence, going against what the salary 

 7    commission has done, it was just a calculation 

 8    based on the inflation rate since the 79.5 when 

 9    there were also stipends to the -- were those 

10    stipends included, like as an average?  because 

11    there were additional stipends given for -- my 

12    understanding, I wasn't here -- for leadership 

13    positions and chairs of committees and ranking 

14    members and so forth.  Which I'm understanding 

15    most, except for the most junior members, did 

16    receive.

17                 So was that factored into your 

18    salary calculation?  

19                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   So the commission 

20    did get rid of the vast majority of the stipends.  

21    I think there's only -- (pause).  

22                 So there's a small number of 

23    leadership stipends that are left in the law 

24    since the commission made its determination.  

25    We're not changing that.  


                                                               6036

 1                 And as far as historical stipends, I 

 2    think it's sort of moot at this point because 

 3    those are people who came and left, they were 

 4    different points in time in the Legislature.

 5                 I personally have always held the 

 6    philosophy that I didn't support stipends, so I 

 7    never took mine.  And I don't take mine now.

 8                 And again, everyone can have their 

 9    own opinions on these.  And I am perfectly 

10    comfortable with -- if your colleagues who vote 

11    no today don't want the increase in their salary, 

12    I have learned it's very easy to give it back.  

13    You just write a note to Tom DiNapoli, the 

14    Comptroller, saying "Don't give me the extra 

15    money," and he doesn't, and it stays in the 

16    General Fund.

17                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

18    will the sponsor continue to yield.  

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

20    sponsor yield?   

21                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

23    sponsor yields.

24                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   I am certain 

25    that my colleagues, who all work very hard, 


                                                               6037

 1    aren't going to want to take less than those that 

 2    perhaps don't work as hard at this job.  So I 

 3    would say that that's probably a moot point.  In 

 4    the private sector you get compensated for the 

 5    work that you do; not so here.

 6                 So that being said, my question is, 

 7    are you aware of what other legislatures make 

 8    across this nation?  And this would obviously 

 9    make us the highest paid.  Do you have any -- you 

10    know, was there any comparison to what other 

11    legislatures do?  

12                 I know you -- I know my friends on 

13    the other side of the aisle love to keep up with 

14    California.  Well, you're going to surpass them 

15    in this particular race.  

16                 So was there any thought given to 

17    that?  

18                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   We did do that 

19    work.  

20                 I'd like to point out, 

21    Mr. President, that I appreciate my colleague's 

22    point that their members work very hard, so he 

23    assumes that they will probably take the salary 

24    increase.  I think we are actually all in 

25    agreement with that.  We all work very hard.  In 


                                                               6038

 1    fact, I know few people who have job descriptions 

 2    that require pretty much 24/7 response to their 

 3    community -- that we come up here for six months 

 4    a year and we do the work on the floor of the 

 5    Legislature and in committees and in hearings, we 

 6    go home, and guess what, everyone needs us on the 

 7    weekends and on the evenings.

 8                 So I personally can happily stand 

 9    here and say I know that all 63 -- maybe there 

10    are still 62 until January 1st, whatever -- 63 of 

11    us work extremely hard on behalf of our 

12    constituents.  And I don't think anyone should 

13    decide not to take the salary increase.  But if 

14    they feel so strongly about this issue, they 

15    certainly have the ability not to take the salary 

16    increase.

17                 I think that you are correct, we 

18    will now be the highest-paid state legislature in 

19    the country.  We're also, as also has been 

20    pointed out earlier, one of the most expensive 

21    countries -- excuse me, one of the most expensive 

22    states in the country, where our cost of living 

23    is significantly higher than most states.  And 

24    some of us live in a section of the state where 

25    our cost of living is radically higher than most 


                                                               6039

 1    of the State of New York or any of the other 

 2    49 states.  Maybe not Hawaii; it's damn expensive 

 3    in Hawaii.  But we did look at the other states.

 4                 But we also looked at local-election 

 5    governments.  The City Council makes 

 6    significantly more than we in the State 

 7    Legislature.  I believe that the Nassau and 

 8    Suffolk County legislatures make more.  I think 

 9    there are other local governments around the 

10    state where they make more.  

11                 And I think we'd still be making 

12    less than pharmacies at -- the pharmacists, 

13    excuse me -- at which pharmacies did we look up?  

14    It was a report I read.  

15                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   (Inaudible.)

16                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   So that -- pardon 

17    me?  I love pharmacists.  We need them all, trust 

18    me.  But I'm not sure they work 24/7.  And so we 

19    can find many career paths in the State of 

20    New York that would definitely be more lucrative 

21    than the Legislature before or after this salary 

22    increase.

23                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

24    will the sponsor continue to yield.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 


                                                               6040

 1    sponsor yield? 

 2                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 4    sponsor yields.

 5                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Do you happen to 

 6    know what the average family income is in 

 7    New York State?

 8                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   We'll have to get 

 9    that for you.  But you might know the answer and 

10    tell me.

11                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

12    will the sponsor continue to yield?

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Would the 

14    sponsor yield?

15                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I will.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

17    sponsor yields.  

18                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Yes, the answer 

19    to the question, according to the U.S. Census for 

20    2021, was $74,314.  That's what the average 

21    family income is in New York State.  

22                 So we're going to give individuals 

23    in this chamber roughly double what the average 

24    family in New York State makes.  I realize -- I 

25    agree with you, New York State is an expensive 


                                                               6041

 1    place to live.  Largely due to the actions that 

 2    happen in this chamber, unfortunately.  But it is 

 3    still double what the average family income makes 

 4    in New York.  

 5                 So with that being said, you know, 

 6    to have this big jump -- was there any 

 7    consideration given to just taking the salary we 

 8    have now and maybe indexing it to inflation so, 

 9    as you said, we don't have to come back and have 

10    these debates and conversations and consternation 

11    over?  

12                 Why not just peg it to inflation so 

13    that if that salary was acceptable when you took 

14    it, and you stayed here for whatever period of 

15    time, it will still be essentially, in real 

16    dollars -- or, excuse me, inflation-adjusted 

17    dollars, the same salary?  Why wouldn't we just 

18    do that?  

19                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   That was not the 

20    agreement that was come to for this moment in 

21    history.  

22                 It's an interesting proposal.  I 

23    always like inflation-adjusted programs.  And 

24    since as I previously explained, technically this 

25    salary raise will still be below if we had just 


                                                               6042

 1    done inflation for the last 20 years, you could 

 2    make the proposal in January, perhaps, that we 

 3    should pass a law that we are now also going to 

 4    do an inflation adjustment for future legislative 

 5    sessions, which will perhaps avoid this 

 6    conversation or this scene in any future 

 7    legislative years.

 8                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.

 9                 Mr. President, will the sponsor 

10    continue to yield?

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

12    sponsor yield?

13                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

15    sponsor yields.

16                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So state 

17    legislatures across the nation, some are 

18    part-time, some are full-time, but in California, 

19    which is a much larger state than New York, they 

20    make $119,702 a year.  We'll be more than that.  

21    Much larger state, larger population.

22                 The state of Florida, a much larger 

23    population than New York State, $29,697.  Texas, 

24    a larger state than New York:  $7,200 is what 

25    they make per year.  Somehow these guys 


                                                               6043

 1    survive -- these men and women survive making 

 2    these salaries and still are legislators and 

 3    also, with the exception of California, have a 

 4    lower tax burden than New York State does.  

 5                 So with that being said, you are now 

 6    elevating this to $142,000 a year.  We all agree 

 7    that we work hard.  Is this now going to be a 

 8    full-time position?  Since you're also limiting 

 9    outside income, which would make it a, by 

10    definition -- 

11                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   We have limited 

12    outside income.  And we have not written into 

13    this bill making it full-time, although I would 

14    certainly be a supporter of that.  

15                 Or, as I often explain to people, I 

16    have been here now 20, almost 21 years.  I must 

17    be doing it very badly; it takes me 24/7 after 

18    21 years.  So I do believe it is a full-time job 

19    for myself, and I don't have another job.  Other 

20    people have figured out how to combine what they 

21    do in the Legislature with outside income.  My -- 

22    my hat goes off to them, because I just don't 

23    even understand -- I sometimes don't get my 

24    laundry done for X number of weeks because I'm so 

25    busy.  So it's amazing that people can pull all 


                                                               6044

 1    of this off.

 2                 Having said that, we are changing 

 3    the rules so that the amount of outside income 

 4    will be limited and actually even less available 

 5    to you after a two-year period, because we 

 6    implement new rules to go in two years from now.

 7                 And to be honest, I think the 

 8    definition of part-time versus full-time may need 

 9    clarification in our current law.  But I would 

10    challenge any of my colleagues here with me today 

11    to stand up and say, yeah, they think it's a 

12    part-time job, they're really only doing it 

13    part-time, because I just don't see that reality 

14    in any of our districts anywhere in the State of 

15    New York.  

16                 So I would be fine with changing the 

17    definition to full-time.

18                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

19    will the sponsor continue to yield.  

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

21    sponsor yield?  

22                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, sir. 

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

24    sponsor yields.

25                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So I believe 


                                                               6045

 1    that that -- that definition may be tied to the 

 2    Constitution of this state of a part-time 

 3    position.  And I think that was wise, because we 

 4    want citizen legislators, people who have skin in 

 5    the game in the success of New York State's 

 6    economy.  

 7                 And those that are more insulated 

 8    from that by bad policy decisions -- which we 

 9    will now be that much more financially insulated 

10    from that -- I think that was the reason why, and 

11    probably should remain that way.  That's why it 

12    should be a part-time position, in my opinion.

13                 But with that said, I'm not sure -- 

14    and if you can answer this -- can we limit 

15    outside income when it is still, according to the 

16    Constitution, a part-time position?  

17                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm advised by 

18    counsel that yes, we can.  

19                 I suppose someone can litigate that 

20    question once it is the language of the law, 

21    since we all know everything can be litigated 

22    here once it passes.  But we are fairly 

23    confident that the language in the law to be 

24    passed today would withstand constitutional 

25    scrutiny.


                                                               6046

 1                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

 2    on the bill.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 4    Borrello on the bill.

 5                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Senator Krueger, 

 6    thank you very much.  Our last exchange I think 

 7    in the literary world will be called 

 8    foreshadowing when it comes to future litigation, 

 9    potentially.

10                 You know, the people of New York 

11    State have suffered a lot, Mr. President.  

12    They've suffered a lot unfortunately because of 

13    the self-inflicted wounds that have happened 

14    here.  And they have asked us to come back and do 

15    a special session -- I've heard it from my 

16    constituents, I've heard it from pundits, I've 

17    heard it from local elected officials:  Go back 

18    to Albany and fix the things that you've broken.  

19    Number first and foremost, public safety, crime, 

20    the so-called criminal justice reforms.  Go back 

21    and fix that.  We're not doing that.  

22                 Go back and take care of the 

23    Unemployment Insurance Fund, which is at its 

24    highest level -- its lowest level, it's 

25    practically bankrupt.  And instead of refilling 


                                                               6047

 1    that fund, and coming back to do that and using 

 2    funds that we have available to help fill that 

 3    crater that impacts every single business, every 

 4    small business owner -- anyone that writes a pay 

 5    check is being impacted by that.  We're not 

 6    coming back to do that.

 7                 We're not coming back to address the 

 8    amendment that Senator Helming offered, all those 

 9    great ideas that would actually do things to 

10    improve the lives of New Yorkers going into 2023.  

11                 We've come back here today, a couple 

12    of days before Christmas, to raise our own 

13    salary.  That's what we're doing here today.  

14    None of the other stuff that New Yorkers really 

15    want.  Because I don't think in a poll a majority 

16    of New Yorkers -- not even close -- would say you 

17    should go back to Albany in special session and 

18    give yourselves a raise and pat yourselves on the 

19    back.  Because that's what we're doing today.

20                 We're also talking about limiting 

21    outside income.  Sounds like a great idea.  I'm 

22    sure on the surface a lot of people would think 

23    that's a good idea.  The problem with that is it 

24    further insulates us from the impact of the harm 

25    that we do.  I'm a small business owner, my wife 


                                                               6048

 1    and I.  Every day we deal with the impact of the 

 2    high taxes, of the overregulation.  I bear the 

 3    scars every day when I walk into this chamber or 

 4    do my job back in the district of what it's like 

 5    to do business here, to operate a business.  As 

 6    do others -- the farmers that we have in the 

 7    Legislature, people that are professionals.  They 

 8    understand that.  

 9                 And the less people like that in 

10    this chamber, the less -- the more out of touch 

11    this chamber will become.

12                 Our founding fathers left tyranny 

13    because they were ruled by people that weren't 

14    impacted by their own decisions.  They had lots 

15    of money, they had lots of food, they had lots of 

16    independence because they ruled the roost.  And 

17    that's why our founding fathers came here and 

18    founded this nation.  And they intended, in 

19    Washington as well, for there to be citizen 

20    legislators that had skin in the game in the 

21    success of our nation and our state.

22                 Today we take a big, giant step 

23    backwards, a giant step backwards in ensuring 

24    that we are in touch with the needs of the people 

25    we represent.  That's what this does today.  You 


                                                               6049

 1    can dress it up any way you want, but that's what 

 2    it does today.  We're going to get paid double 

 3    what a family makes -- a family, an average 

 4    family in New York State makes.  We're going to 

 5    get paid double that, each individual.

 6                 And you're not going to have to 

 7    worry about paying those rising gas bills, thanks 

 8    to the CLCPA and the CAC that just a couple of 

 9    days ago signed what the New York Post aptly 

10    called the "green suicide pact" that's going to 

11    raise the cost of everything in New York State -- 

12    and get zero impact, by the way, on greenhouse 

13    gas emissions as we continue to import more power 

14    from dirty, old-fashioned coal plants in places 

15    like Homer City, Pennsylvania, to power New York 

16    State.  So it's going to make it more expensive, 

17    and we're going to be that much more out of touch 

18    with reality.  

19                 And that's the problem with this 

20    bill.  It is out of touch with what the average 

21    New Yorker has to deal with.

22                 So, Mr. President, I'll be voting 

23    no.  Thank you.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

25    you, Senator Borrello.


                                                               6050

 1                 Are there any other Senators wishing 

 2    to be heard?

 3                 Senator Lanza.

 4                 SENATOR LANZA:   Mr. President, 

 5    thank you.  It's good to see you, all my 

 6    colleagues, although I wish I weren't here to see 

 7    you.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 9    Lanza, are you on the bill or are you asking the 

10    sponsor to yield?

11                 SENATOR LANZA:   I'm on the bill, 

12    Mr. President.  

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

14    Lanza on the bill.

15                 SENATOR LANZA:   On the bill.  

16                 So there are two parts to this 

17    legislation, obviously.  The one portion deals 

18    with a very steep pay raise for legislators, both 

19    here in the Senate and in the Assembly.  And the 

20    other portion deals with moving beyond and ending 

21    the idea that a citizen legislature is best for 

22    the people of New York.  I'll take up the first 

23    part.

24                 So with respect to a pay raise, I -- 

25    you know, I think there are two valid theories 


                                                               6051

 1    that I've often thought about with respect to the 

 2    salary of a member of this body.  On the one 

 3    hand, I think, having come from the private 

 4    sector -- I had a business that developed 

 5    software, I worked to get my CPA at Peat Marwick 

 6    a hundred years ago.  I was in the DA's office in 

 7    Manhattan -- not the private sector.  But 

 8    nevertheless, I keep doing different things.  So 

 9    I've seen a lot about -- I've seen a lot with 

10    respect to, you know, what different jobs pay and 

11    what they're worth.

12                 And I think you can make a very good 

13    argument that if you do this job right and you 

14    devote yourself in the way that you ought to, 

15    that if you were to try to sort of equate the 

16    value of our service to what happens in the 

17    private sector, I think you could make a very 

18    good argument that the salary ought to be 162, 

19    142, 175, 200, 225.  I think you could make that 

20    argument, Mr. President.  And I would make that 

21    argument.

22                 I think there's another theory that 

23    I thought -- think is valid if you believe in the 

24    idea, as I do, in a citizen legislature, that 

25    would suggest that perhaps the salaries -- don't 


                                                               6052

 1    throw anything -- that the salary ought to be cut 

 2    dramatically.  

 3                 The theory there -- and some states 

 4    do this, by the way.  The theory there is that 

 5    you don't come here to make a living from the 

 6    taxpayer, you come from your community, from your 

 7    neighborhoods, from your jobs -- jobs like the 

 8    people who are your constituents have -- you come 

 9    here, you do the people's work, you do a budget, 

10    you pass important legislation, and then you go 

11    back to, quote, unquote -- I don't want to 

12    disparage -- but your real job.  Which keeps you 

13    connected, as Senator Borrello suggested, keeps 

14    you connected to I think what is important to the 

15    people that we represent.

16                 And so I think there are two sides 

17    to the argument.  We can debate those.  And I 

18    think there's some validity to both sides.  I 

19    fall on the, you know, pay-cut side.  I think you 

20    end up with a better legislature eventually.

21                 But whichever side of the argument 

22    you subscribe to or support, it is said that 

23    timing is everything in life.  And the really 

24    serious problem I have with respect to the pay 

25    raise is its timing.  And I don't mean two days 


                                                               6053

 1    before Christmas Eve.  I don't mean in the 

 2    Hanukkah season.  I don't mean in the season that 

 3    people are celebrating many different things.  I 

 4    don't mean a couple of days before the year end 

 5    when we're going to have a new legislative 

 6    session in a week or two.  I don't mean that 

 7    timing.  

 8                 I mean the timing of what is 

 9    happening right now in New York State, what is 

10    happening at this time in the lives of the people 

11    we represent.  

12                 Thousands of New Yorkers are going 

13    cry themselves to sleep tonight and every night 

14    because they lost their son or their daughter or 

15    their sister or their brother or their aunt or 

16    their uncle or their mother or their father to 

17    drug overdose deaths.  Fentanyl, flooding into 

18    the State of New York for a variety of reasons, 

19    chief among them, in my opinion, because of bad 

20    policies and bad messaging by elected officials 

21    in this state.  Because of things like sanctuary 

22    states and we think we ought to be more 

23    permissive when it comes to things that are 

24    killing our children rather than less permissive.

25                 At this time, right now, today, 


                                                               6054

 1    New Yorkers are trying to figure out how in 

 2    you-know-what's name they're going to be able to 

 3    afford to put a meal on their holiday table.  I 

 4    just saw, in the supermarket, iceberg lettuce.  

 5    That was the cheapest of all the most affordable 

 6    of all lettuce once upon a time.  Nine dollars.  

 7    Nine dollars.  

 8                 Gasoline, prohibitive.  Diesel fuel, 

 9    prohibitive.  The cost of groceries -- eggs and 

10    everything else -- with inflation, making 

11    people's lives miserable and not what they ought 

12    to be in the greatest state in the union.  Again, 

13    because of what I believe to be bad policies in 

14    this state.

15                 Student loans.  People trying to 

16    figure out what they're going to do about that.  

17    Again, I don't think any of us have ever really 

18    addressed what to do about that in the proper 

19    way, either party.

20                 Taxes.  Off the charts in New York.  

21    Out of control in New York.  If you work one job 

22    or two jobs in New York, you take home less of 

23    your money than just about anywhere on the 

24    planet.  Again, bad policies handed down by our 

25    government.


                                                               6055

 1                 Crime.  Out of control.  At this 

 2    time, on this day, in the State of New York.  

 3    Once upon a time I stood on this floor and said:  

 4    Hey, if you go forward with these policies, as a 

 5    former prosecutor I'll tell you that crime is 

 6    going to become out of control.  I was called by 

 7    the Governor a fearmonger and a lot of other 

 8    things besides a child of God.  I see 

 9    Senator Ramos shaking her head.  Yup, 

10    fearmongering.  

11                 Well, guess what?  Unfortunately and 

12    sadly -- and I said it that day, I hoped I would 

13    be wrong.  But I was not, and crime is out of 

14    control.

15                 I have constituents telling me, 

16    based on what they see happening, that they're 

17    afraid to stand on the subway platform, that 

18    they're afraid to ride the subway.  We've got 

19    elected officials in New York City saying, Oh, 

20    there's a perception of crime.  We had the MTA 

21    chairman say:  Well, all these thousands of 

22    crimes, we ought to be happy.  If we were a city 

23    of X amount of millions of riders or citizens, 

24    this would be a low crime rate.

25                 When we talk about crime, it's a 


                                                               6056

 1    word that has an impact at this moment, at this 

 2    time, in the lives of all New Yorkers.  More 

 3    people over the last several years were 

 4    burglarized, were robbed, were murdered, were 

 5    raped, and the list goes on.  And you cannot deny 

 6    that that is the fact.  We've had more victims of 

 7    crime, our neighbors have been victimized more in 

 8    the last several years than anything we've seen 

 9    before.  Again, I will say, because of bad 

10    policies here in New York.

11                 So with all that going on, in this 

12    moment, at this time, my colleagues across the 

13    aisle, the Governor, the Democrats in the 

14    Assembly, they have a gift.  They have the 

15    solution.  They've had an epiphany.  Let's hurry 

16    up back, in the waning days of 2022, for a 

17    special session because all this is going wrong 

18    and our constituents and our citizens are 

19    hurting.  Here's what we're going to do about it.  

20    We're going to give ourselves a big fat raise.  

21    And we're going to hand the bill, we're going to 

22    hand the bill to the people of New York, who are 

23    burdened by everything I just discussed.  

24                 Hey, New Yorkers, you can't afford 

25    to put a meal on your table for the holiday?  


                                                               6057

 1    Here's what I'm going to do for you.  I'm going 

 2    to raise your taxes by -- I didn't hear what the 

 3    fiscal impact -- 6 million, 7 million?  Whatever 

 4    it is.  Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, 

 5    Happy Kwanzaa, happy everything you celebrate.  

 6    And in spite of everything you're going through, 

 7    here's another bill, here's another something 

 8    that you need to figure out how to pay for.  

 9                 This timing is horrific.  Two years 

10    ago, four years ago -- I don't know.  I know it's 

11    never comfortable.  It's never easy politically 

12    to do these things.  I get that.  I was in the 

13    majority too.  We never did it.  That's how hard 

14    it is, I suppose.

15                 But of all the times in all the 

16    years that I've been living in New York State -- 

17    which is my entire life -- this is the worst 

18    time, the worst time to tell our constituents, 

19    Empty your pockets, tighten your belts even more, 

20    because the Legislature is going to give itself a 

21    big raise.  

22                 Oh, and by the way, it would be one 

23    thing if they were being handed this bill and 

24    some of those other things are being addressed in 

25    this special session that we needed to be called 


                                                               6058

 1    from our homes and our families, with a couple of 

 2    days left in New York, to address none of those 

 3    things.  Not a single one of those things.  

 4    Tomorrow can any New Yorker wake up and say, 

 5    Well, at least while they gave themselves a 

 6    raise, at least I think next year there will be 

 7    fewer drug overdoses?  Maybe next year there's 

 8    going to be less crime?  Maybe next year the food 

 9    prices are going to go down?  Maybe next year 

10    I'll figure out how to pay for my kid's college?  

11    None of that happens here.  It's terrible timing.

12                 Citizen legislature.  People could 

13    debate on both sides of the issue.  I think it's 

14    important.  I think it is important that the 

15    people who serve the people -- remember, 

16    government of the people, by the people, for the 

17    people -- that it's actually really people that 

18    are serving the people who understand exactly how 

19    their people live their lives.  That the 

20    decisions that are made here affect the people 

21    who make them -- all of us -- in the same way 

22    that they affect the people we represent.  

23                 I don't believe that legislators 

24    ought to be immune from the decisions that they 

25    make.  I believe legislators should come from the 


                                                               6059

 1    same places that the people they represent come 

 2    from.  Otherwise, I believe what you end up with 

 3    is a permanent elite political class.  That is my 

 4    fear, that whether it's a year from now or five 

 5    years from now or 10 years from now, we're going 

 6    to have a legislature comprised with people whose 

 7    only skill is getting elected.  Because that will 

 8    be the only skill that matters in their lives, 

 9    how to get elected.

10                 The idea, in the citizen 

11    legislature, is that we would have farmers, we 

12    would have electricians and carpenters and bodega 

13    owners and bagel shop owners and pizzeria owners 

14    and lawyers and electricians and restaurateurs, 

15    and the list goes on.  Because when legislation 

16    would be considered, someone would stand up and 

17    say, Hey, as a lawyer I can tell you how this 

18    affects my ability to represent the interests of 

19    the client.  Hey, as a farmer I can tell you why 

20    this is going to make it more difficult for me to 

21    produce.  As this or that or the other thing, I 

22    lived this.  This is not words on a page.  It's 

23    not academic.  It's life.  I get it.  This is how 

24    it's going to affect the electricians in my 

25    district, because I'm an electrician.  This is 


                                                               6060

 1    how it's going to affect the teachers in my 

 2    district and their ability to teach, because I'm 

 3    a teacher.  I know it.  It's not theory, it's my 

 4    life.  And I understand it.  And I bring that 

 5    expertise to the table.  

 6                 But more than that, because 

 7    you'll -- there are smart people out there that 

 8    have expertise that won't have outside income, 

 9    but to have skin in the game means that you 

10    really have to feel it and know it and understand 

11    it.  It's personal.  And therefore, the interests 

12    of your constituents becomes personal.  

13                 My fear is that with a political -- 

14    permanent political class only, and not a citizen 

15    legislature, is that the legislature's interests 

16    will become so separated, as Senator Borrello I 

17    think said, from the people.  And that if the 

18    only income you have if you're here as a Senator 

19    or an Assemblymember and you are dependent on 

20    only your salary and the taxpayer paying it for 

21    your livelihood -- because I've heard this notion 

22    about who are you going to serve and how many are 

23    you going to serve and all that kind of stuff.  

24    Well, there will be only one thing left to serve, 

25    and that is your reelection.  Because that's all 


                                                               6061

 1    you'll have.  

 2                 For those of you -- for those of 

 3    us -- maybe, you know, at one point as this 

 4    progresses, maybe one day we'll only have 

 5    billionaires and bums.  Forgive the pejorative, I 

 6    suppose on both ends.  Billionaires and bums.  

 7                 If you're a trust fund child, none 

 8    of this affects you, you don't care.  But for the 

 9    overall majority of the people that I hope 

10    continue to want to serve the people of the State 

11    of New York, it won't only be people who live off 

12    trust funds, it won't only be people who are 

13    billionaires.  It will be, you know, the people 

14    who do the living and the dying and the breathing 

15    and the bleeding and sweating in this state.

16                 But what you'll end up with, I 

17    believe, when you eliminate a citizen 

18    legislature, is a political class whose only 

19    mission, if this is all that you have, this is 

20    all you depend on to provide for yourself and 

21    your family, if that's all you have, then you 

22    will only serve one interest, and that is to get 

23    reelected.  And we'll have less government, more 

24    politics.  I think there's already too much 

25    politics in the game today.  Everyone's at fault, 


                                                               6062

 1    both parties.  And you're going to have more of 

 2    it.  

 3                 The idea of corruption, you've read 

 4    the stories -- I've been here long enough to know 

 5    that 98.9 percent -- I could give you all the 

 6    cases.  I don't want to mention names.  It's the 

 7    holiday season.  It's not kind.  It wouldn't be 

 8    civil.  It's never outside income.  It's people 

 9    selling -- selling their position.  That's what 

10    it's always been.  You don't need outside income 

11    to do that.  We're replete, sadly, with cases of 

12    that type of corruption.  People sell their vote, 

13    they sell their power.  It has nothing to do with 

14    outside income.

15                 We've had corruption in the City of 

16    New York with campaign finance, people running 

17    just so they can take a taxpayer check and pay 

18    themselves and their buddies and their 

19    consultants, having no desire or interest to 

20    actually serve or even win.  That's coming to a 

21    theater near you soon.

22                 So this has nothing to do with that.  

23    You know, that argument is out there.  You look 

24    at all the cases of, quote, unquote, corruption 

25    and all the people that have been sort of 


                                                               6063

 1    swallowed by those problems, and none of it has 

 2    to do with them.  

 3                 And anyway, there are exceptions.  

 4    Right?  So you could still have 

 5    multi-million-dollar real estate holdings -- 

 6    right, commercial real estate in Manhattan or 

 7    wherever -- and receive millions of dollars in 

 8    rental income.  I'm sure you could do that as an 

 9    absentee member of the Assembly -- of the Senate 

10    somehow.  Right?  Manage all your properties, 

11    make millions, that's okay.

12                 I remember one of the reasons why we 

13    needed to do this, it was suggested, was, well, 

14    you look at the former governor, wrote a book.  

15    You can still write a book.  It's there, you can 

16    write a book.  Royalties.  

17                 Mr. President, there's an idea.  

18    There's an idea.  I've been here long enough.  

19    I've seen a lot of interesting things.  We could 

20    all write a book.  It would certainly be engaging 

21    reading, if not disturbing.  I've seen a lot.  

22    Senator Savino's seen a lot.  Those of us who 

23    have been here have seen a lot.  Write a book.  

24    That was the evil we were going to cleanse 

25    ourselves of:  Oh, that governor, he wrote a 


                                                               6064

 1    book, he made millions, evil.  You can still 

 2    write a book.

 3                 So there are a lot of exceptions 

 4    even here.  It's just there's exceptions for 

 5    certain people.  I would argue that some of the 

 6    things you can still do would take far more time, 

 7    Senator Krueger, away from your responsibilities 

 8    and duties as a member of the Senate.  It 

 9    probably takes a lot of work to write a book.  It 

10    probably takes a lot of work to manage your 

11    commercial real estate portfolio.  It probably 

12    takes a lot of work.  

13                 You can still have -- and I agree 

14    with this, you can still have capital gains.  It 

15    probably takes a lot of work and a lot of time to 

16    manage your multi-million-dollar investment 

17    portfolio.  Right?  If you were lucky enough to 

18    be born rich or made it before you got here or 

19    while you got here or whatever, you can still do 

20    that.

21                 There are people that are doing 

22    that.  They've made a lot of money off their 

23    investments.  It doesn't happen by accident, 

24    you've got to manage it.  You've got to go out 

25    there, you've got to do work, you've got to do 


                                                               6065

 1    things.  There are pitfalls there, there are 

 2    temptations there, there are all sorts of things 

 3    that are talked about in terms of why that might 

 4    not be a good idea.  It exists, with all these 

 5    exceptions.

 6                 But again, for me, the biggest issue 

 7    is that you will end up with a legislature one 

 8    day, God forbid, comprised of members that really 

 9    don't live the same kind of lives as the people 

10    they represent, that really don't have the same 

11    interests as the people they represent.  And when 

12    that happens, when that happens, you are not 

13    going to have a legislature of the people.  You 

14    are not going to have a legislature that even 

15    understands and appreciates what is the right 

16    thing to do and what is the wrong thing to do.

17                 And in spite of some of the 

18    arguments by a few people out there that 

19    really -- I don't know what their qualifications 

20    are.  I don't mean people in this body, I mean 

21    out there, the busybodies, the critics, whose 

22    only qualification seems to be able to send out 

23    tweets and criticize everything and have no skill 

24    of their own, but they do it.

25                 At the end of the day, even the 


                                                               6066

 1    thing they say that this will do will be so far 

 2    from the truth.  And by then it will be too late.  

 3    You're not going to end up with -- here's another 

 4    prediction.  I hope I'm wrong, I'll say it again.  

 5    You're not going to end up with less corruption, 

 6    Mr. President.  You're going to end up with more 

 7    corruption.  That is the nature of the way things 

 8    work.

 9                 And the final thing I'll say -- 

10    applause, that's an applause line.  

11                 (Pause; laughter.)

12                 SENATOR LANZA:   The final thing 

13    I'll say, Mr. President, is the Constitution.  

14    And it matters.  It does matter.  You know, we're 

15    a state of laws, a land of laws.  I believe, in 

16    my humble opinion -- I said not too long ago, a 

17    couple of months ago that there was a bill passed 

18    here that the Governor signed that I believed, in 

19    my legal opinion, was unconstitutional.  I think 

20    so far it seems to be trending that way in the 

21    courts.  I think ultimately it will end up that 

22    way, there's no doubt in my mind.  

23                 I think there is a serious 

24    constitutional issue here as well.  I think this 

25    redefines the qualifications to become a member 


                                                               6067

 1    of the Assembly, to become a member of the 

 2    Senate.  You know, it's analogous, 

 3    Senator Myrie -- like the Constitution of the 

 4    United States says that to be president -- you 

 5    should look into it -- it's 35, you have to be 

 6    35 years old, you have to be a citizen of this 

 7    country.  If Congress were to propose a law that 

 8    said you can run for president at 22, it would be 

 9    unconstitutional because it would change the 

10    qualifications.  

11                 I think if you read the New York 

12    State Constitution, which establishes this body 

13    and the Assembly -- my attorney friend 

14    Senator Savino is shaking her head -- I believe 

15    that this changes the qualification, this puts in 

16    place a new qualification to become a member of 

17    the Senate or a Member of the Assembly.  

18                 And therein lies, I believe, the 

19    constitutional issue, which is yesterday you 

20    needed to be a citizen, yesterday you needed to 

21    be of a certain age, yesterday you needed to be a 

22    resident of your district.  And tomorrow, 

23    metaphorically, you're going to also need to be a 

24    person that does not have an outside job with 

25    certain income.


                                                               6068

 1                 And that, to me, means that you are 

 2    changing the qualifications to become a Senator 

 3    or a Member of the Assembly.  And I believe 

 4    therefore that this means that this bill is in 

 5    violation of the Constitution.  I know our 

 6    Governor had no problem signing the last 

 7    unconstitutional bill.  I'm sure she'll sign this 

 8    bill as well.  

 9                 But for all those reasons, 

10    Mr. President, I believe this is bad public 

11    policy.  I think the timing of this raise is 

12    horrific and it is really insulting to the people 

13    who can't -- that we represent who are finding a 

14    hard time making ends meet.  The constitutional 

15    issue.  The loss of a citizen legislature.  I 

16    think those are all reasons why this is bad 

17    public policy and why I'm going to, at the proper 

18    time, vote in the negative, Mr. President.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

20    you, Senator Lanza.

21                 Are there any other Senators wishing 

22    to be heard?

23                 Seeing and hearing none, debate is 

24    closed.

25                 The Secretary will ring the bell.


                                                               6069

 1                 Read the last section.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 7.  This 

 3    act shall take effect January 1, 2023.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 5    roll.

 6                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 8    Tedisco to explain his vote.

 9                 SENATOR TEDISCO:   Thank you, 

10    Mr. President and my colleagues.  

11                 All of us here today went through a 

12    process that I defined a while back as a savage 

13    attack on representative democracy.  It was 

14    called the New York redistricting process.  And 

15    it went through several different permutations.  

16    It finally got to the Court of Appeals, and the 

17    Court of Appeals basically validated that and 

18    said it was totally unconstitutional.  

19                 And then we went through a process 

20    to get new districts, and we all have new 

21    districts, changed a little bit.  And I'll tell 

22    you, my 49th Senatorial District which I have 

23    right now is a wonderful district.  When I move 

24    into the 44th next year, it's a wonderful 

25    district.  They're kind, they're caring people.  


                                                               6070

 1    They're going to go through some very holy 

 2    holidays coming up and celebrate that.  But 

 3    they're also going to join their families and 

 4    provide gifts for their families.  And that's 

 5    always a challenge for them:  What do I get for 

 6    my dad, what do I get for my brother?  

 7                 As they contact me as their 

 8    representative, they have a very important gift 

 9    that they'd like me to say that we could give to 

10    you, and it is the best possible hearing aids 

11    that New York has to offer.  Because they think, 

12    and I believe they're right, you're totally 

13    tone-deaf.  You're not hearing.  

14                 I read three papers a day, and 

15    apparently you don't read the papers or listen to 

16    the media, because we're facing some of the worst 

17    inflation in more than 30 years.  And in the 

18    worst inflation in 30 years, shortly the New York 

19    State Thruway, faceless bureaucrats, those who 

20    are not elected, those who said at one point it 

21    would be totally free to have a Thruway, our main 

22    construction system -- totally free -- it's going 

23    to provide a 75 percent increase to our 

24    impoverished population, the people who least can 

25    afford to put $30, $50, $80 inside an account and 


                                                               6071

 1    let it languish there.

 2                 Where they spent 60 cents to bring 

 3    their sons or daughters to the doctor's on the 

 4    Thruway, they're going to get a bill for $2.60, 

 5    because they're not E-ZPass users and it's a 

 6    75 percent increase.  That's what's happening out 

 7    there in the community.  

 8                 Shortly, in a week and a half, you 

 9    know this, you're going to add 16 cents on a 

10    gallon of gasoline for the 19.5 million people in 

11    New York State.  For those who have to fill up 

12    their tank that may be $3 or $4, you're going to 

13    add 16 cents -- in the midst of a time where 

14    we're paying close to 1¾ or close to twice the 

15    amount they usually pay for gasoline.  

16                 And to pour some salt in the wound 

17    at this time, you brought us back here -- and I 

18    don't know if you know this or researched it, 

19    because I looked at it, I talked to the 

20    professionals, from our constituents who are 

21    leaving -- you're using thirty or more thousand 

22    dollars, thirty to $35,000 to get in this room 

23    today, to bring us all back.  Now, I would think 

24    using $35,000 of my constituents' and constituents 

25    across the state's money to do some good things 


                                                               6072

 1    here that would affect their quality of life, 

 2    that might -- 

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 4    Tedisco, in the spirit of the holidays, I'm going 

 5    to give you 30 more seconds.  But you're past 

 6    your two minutes to explain your vote.

 7                 SENATOR TEDISCO:   Okay.  

 8                 You might have taken care of the 

 9    Thruway system, you might have eliminated the 

10    gasoline tax, but you didn't do that.  You came 

11    here for one reason, aggrandize yourself and make 

12    you the highest paid in salary group of 

13    legislators in the United States of America.  If 

14    that's not tone-deaf and shameful, I don't know 

15    what is.  

16                 You gave yourself a tremendous bonus 

17    for the holidays.  You know what you gave your 

18    constituents?  The largest lump of coal that 

19    anybody has ever received.  Even the Grinch, who 

20    you probably conferenced with before you came out 

21    here and gave you some direction --

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

23    Tedisco --

24                 SENATOR TEDISCO:   -- couldn't get 

25    that lump of coal -- 


                                                               6073

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 2    Tedisco, how do you vote?

 3                 SENATOR TEDISCO:   -- down the top 

 4    of the chimneys.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 6    Tedisco --

 7                 SENATOR TEDISCO:   That's how bad 

 8    this is.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

10    Tedisco, how do you vote? 

11                 SENATOR TEDISCO:   I'm going to vote 

12    no.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

14    Tedisco in the negative.  

15                 Thank you, Senator Tedisco.

16                 Senator Rath to explain his vote.

17                 SENATOR RATH:   Thank you, 

18    Mr. President.

19                 First of all, hello to all my 

20    colleagues, and happy holidays.  

21                 While many New Yorkers are working 

22    hard to make ends meet this holiday season, and 

23    many are living paycheck to paycheck, today this 

24    New York State Legislature is absolutely 

25    tone-deaf to their financial plight.  The work we 


                                                               6074

 1    are proposing here today is nothing short of 

 2    shameful.

 3                 Instead of the transparent and 

 4    accountable government that New Yorkers want, 

 5    what our great state residents are settling for 

 6    and what they're winding up with out of this 

 7    state legislature is a legislature that is 

 8    laser-focused, and I mean laser-focused, on 

 9    lining their pockets with a 29 percent pay 

10    increase.  Amazingly, this $32,000 increase in 

11    pay, just weeks after Election Day, is all for a 

12    part-time job.  This raise would make New York 

13    State legislators the highest-paid in our nation, 

14    further contributing to our highest-in-the-nation 

15    tax status.

16                 It is particularly frustrating to me 

17    that after months of political campaigns and 

18    hearing about pressing taxpayer issues such as 

19    public safety concerns and runaway inflation, 

20    New York Democrats have shown through their 

21    actions today that their top priority is a pay 

22    increase.  This is absolutely unacceptable, and 

23    it is a complete betrayal of the voters' trust.  

24                 Making matters worse, we are called 

25    to a special session right here today on the eve 


                                                               6075

 1    of a historic storm sweeping across our state, 

 2    and in the middle of the holiday season, to make 

 3    this vote.  If this Majority and my colleagues on 

 4    the other side of the aisle truly believe that 

 5    this is warranted, they should have had the guts 

 6    to express this six months ago in front of the 

 7    voters or during a regular State Senate session.

 8                 Unfortunately, once again we are 

 9    reminded today, once again we are reminded how 

10    truly out of touch this New York State government 

11    has become.  I must ask this to my colleagues:  

12    How on earth do you justify this action here 

13    today?

14                 So for these reasons, Mr. President, 

15    I will be voting in the negative, and I urge all 

16    of my colleagues to do the same.

17                 Thank you.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

19    Rath to be recorded in the negative.

20                 Senator Jordan to explain her vote.

21                 SENATOR JORDAN:   Thank you, 

22    Mr. President.

23                 There are two points I will make, 

24    and they have been made but I will reiterate them 

25    so that everyone is sure to hear and pay 


                                                               6076

 1    attention.

 2                 First, how dare the Majority put a 

 3    pay raise through for legislators just because 

 4    you can?  Because you can in this state, where 

 5    one party rules.  How extremely selfish and how 

 6    boorish to do this to the people who pay your 

 7    salaries, the already overburdened taxpayers who 

 8    are struggling to pay for their needs.  I'm not 

 9    talking their wants, I'm talking needs, like heat 

10    for their homes, gas for their cars so that they 

11    can drive to their jobs, food for their families.

12                 Every person in here knew what this 

13    job paid when you ran for election.  If the job 

14    didn't pay enough for you, then you should have 

15    found employment elsewhere.  Unless, unless this 

16    pay raise was something that you planned all 

17    along.  Did any of you bring this issue up during 

18    the campaigns?  Of course not.  Why?  Because you 

19    know the voters, our constituents, our employers, 

20    wouldn't go for it.  Not in these times of 

21    inflation, in a state that is already costing 

22    everyone way too much to live here.

23                 The second point I have to make is 

24    that this bill also carries the proviso limiting 

25    outside income for state legislators.  By 


                                                               6077

 1    limiting outside income while serving, you are 

 2    redefining who may serve and excluding those with 

 3    incomes more than $35,000, which I find is rather 

 4    ironic in this world where inclusivity is 

 5    stressed ad nauseam.  

 6                 You are carving out a job 

 7    description of professional legislator.  In this 

 8    bill there is no room for the citizen legislator, 

 9    and that will result in Albany politicians being 

10    further disconnected from the real world and the 

11    true state of New York State's economy.  How 

12    ludicrous and harmful that would be to the people 

13    we serve.  

14                 We look to our members, who are 

15    restaurateurs, builders, pharmacists, lawyers, 

16    store owners, chiropractors, real estate agents, 

17    farmers, food scientists, school bus operators, 

18    business owners to fill us in on the nitty-gritty 

19    of what hurts and what helps them.  This gives us 

20    a true picture of what should or should not be 

21    acted upon.

22                 If we want to redefine who should be 

23    a legislator, maybe we should turn today's bill 

24    totally around and say that a legislator must 

25    have a family, must be in business or have 


                                                               6078

 1    another profession, must own property that they 

 2    pay taxes for, because then the legislator would 

 3    truly understand which legislation would harm or 

 4    help society.  What do you think of that?

 5                 For all of --

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 7    Jordan, we're approaching three minutes.  If you 

 8    can conclude, please.  

 9                 SENATOR JORDAN:   I will just say 

10    that I will vote a commonsense no, and I would 

11    wish that some of my colleagues across the aisle 

12    would change their votes to no as well.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

14    Jordan to be recorded in the negative.

15                 Senator Martucci to explain his 

16    vote.

17                 SENATOR MARTUCCI:   Thank you, 

18    Mr. President.

19                 I've only been here in this room 

20    with all of you for two years.  And while my time 

21    here is short, I'll start by saying I'm blessed 

22    to have made friendships that I know will last me 

23    a lifetime.  

24                 And I've come here to fight every 

25    single day on behalf of the people back at home, 


                                                               6079

 1    even when, on days like today, the outcome was a 

 2    foregone conclusion even before making my trip 

 3    here.  And all of us in this room have made a 

 4    difference in our districts, a significant 

 5    difference.  And I'm proud to have worked with 

 6    all of you, not only on this side of the aisle 

 7    but also the other side of the aisle, for my 

 8    constituents back home.  And I thank all of you 

 9    for your help in helping me do my job better.  It 

10    really is a team effort.  And that's an effort 

11    that I personally, Mr. President, will never 

12    forget.  

13                 In short, what I'm saying is that 

14    I've seen the best in all of my colleagues.  I've 

15    seen my colleagues, both Democrats and 

16    Republicans, put the needs of their constituents 

17    before the needs of themselves.  And not just 

18    once, but day after day, again and again.  After 

19    all, that's why most of us are here, right?  

20                 That's why I'm saddened today that 

21    many of my colleagues on the other side of the 

22    aisle will be voting for this pay raise.  During 

23    this time of year we should be renewing ourself 

24    and our focus to care for each other, care for 

25    one another, and in particular in this job, to 


                                                               6080

 1    make sure that we're caring for our constituents.  

 2    And voting yourself a $32,000 pay raise is not 

 3    caring for your constituents, Mr. President.  

 4    It's downright disrespectful.  

 5                 There are many things that we could 

 6    be doing here today.  We could be addressing 

 7    public safety.  We could be passing a tax cut.  

 8    We could be protecting our brave men and women in 

 9    the fire service by passing Billy's Law.  But 

10    today we're doing none of that.  Today we're here 

11    and you're writing yourselves a big fat check on 

12    the backs of the people that you say you come 

13    here to fight for.  Frankly, it's beneath this 

14    body.  It's beneath the dignity and camaraderie 

15    of this chamber.  And again, for that I'm sad.

16                 Mr. President, I'm obviously voting 

17    no on this bill.  I urge all of my colleagues, 

18    both Democrats and Republicans, to join me, 

19    because our constituents deserve better.  I know 

20    that we're capable of better, because I've seen 

21    it myself.  And I'm sad that this will be my last 

22    memory in the Senate.  

23                 And despite my affection for all of 

24    you, I will be voting strongly in the negative 

25    and urge my colleagues to do the same.


                                                               6081

 1                 Thank you, Mr. President.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 3    Martucci to be recorded in the negative.

 4                 Senator Krueger to close.

 5                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   (Inaudible) -- 

 6    colleagues.  I'm a little shocked at some of the 

 7    things that have been said.  

 8                 I'm going to go to the concept of a 

 9    citizen legislator and what that has meant in our 

10    history.  That's what our founding fathers said.  

11    Guess what?  They all needed to be white men who 

12    owned property.  Not women, not people of color, 

13    not people who had actual other family 

14    responsibilities.  Because if you were a 

15    property-owning member of the original Congress, 

16    you were a wealthy person.  

17                 Then I've heard attacks on wealthy 

18    people who might want to be here.  I've heard 

19    attacks on people who don't have jobs who want to 

20    be here.

21                 The only thing that matters to be 

22    here is that you care about this state, you are a 

23    citizen, and you can convince people that they 

24    ought to vote for you to represent them.  Each of 

25    us in this room has met those standards, and yet 


                                                               6082

 1    so much more.

 2                 But what I'm particularly concerned 

 3    about is the statement that if we raise our 

 4    salaries, we are somehow doing a disservice to 

 5    our constituents.  If we don't get the best and 

 6    brightest to want to run for office, to be 

 7    willing to put in the time and the hours on 

 8    behalf of our constituents, who are willing to 

 9    fight out the very hard fights -- and many of you 

10    listed critical issues to you and to us.  And I'm 

11    not going to spend my time today saying, Well, 

12    actually we did a lot of good things in the 

13    previous session that I'm very proud of on behalf 

14    of our constituents, and the voters put us back 

15    to do more in the next two years.  And they 

16    decided, even though some of these were political 

17    speeches, that they would actually reelect a 

18    Democratic majority to continue to work on their 

19    behalf with our Republican colleagues.  

20                 But the assignment today is to make 

21    sure that the people can both do these jobs with 

22    honor and integrity, not corruption, and also be 

23    able to pay their rent and feed their children 

24    and take care of themselves, and I believe 

25    hopefully to not have to do a second job that 


                                                               6083

 1    might take them away from their responsibilities 

 2    as a Senator.  

 3                 And I'm not worried that people who 

 4    have no skin in the game will be the ones rushing 

 5    forward into the Legislature.  Because with all 

 6    due respect, if the only thing you can imagine 

 7    doing to make money is to join the New York State 

 8    Senate, you don't have much vision or much 

 9    talent.  

10                 (Laughter.)

11                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   We're here for 

12    the right reasons.  You should want us to 

13    actually not be in panic about our paychecks, and 

14    you should want us focusing our jobs for our 

15    constituents.  And I'm confident, looking around 

16    this room, that that's exactly what we'll be 

17    doing the minute we get back here when the 

18    holidays and the New Year are over.

19                 I also just want to highlight, 

20    again, the reference to in Texas they make $7,000 

21    a year.  Well, guess what?  In Texas they're all 

22    rich white men who have property.  So they 

23    haven't even learned a lesson from the original 

24    rep --

25                 SENATOR SAVINO:   Are any of them 


                                                               6084

 1    single?

 2                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Excuse me?

 3                 SENATOR SAVINO:   Any of them 

 4    single?

 5                 (Laughter.)

 6                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I was going to 

 7    say I was going to miss Diane Savino and many of 

 8    my colleagues who aren't coming back, but she 

 9    completely threw me off my cadence at a really 

10    important point.  Shame on you.

11                 I am proud that we are doing this.  

12    This is not the wrong thing to do, it is actually 

13    the right thing to do -- not just for ourselves, 

14    but for the people coming in, for the people we 

15    hope will come in after them.  And the people who 

16    are thinking about whether they should decide to 

17    run for the Legislature, whichever party, 

18    whichever district, I don't want them saying, I 

19    can't do this, as much as I'm passionate to do 

20    it, because I might not actually be able to meet 

21    my bills.  

22                 And I, yes, understand that it is 

23    more than the average salary or the median salary 

24    for New York State.  It's not an average job 

25    either.  It doesn't even require an average 


                                                               6085

 1    person.  It requires a person prepared to be 

 2    extraordinarily overcommitted to the public good.  

 3    Because anyone who's here for any other reason 

 4    shouldn't be here, and it has nothing to do with 

 5    salary.  

 6                 And I again encourage each person 

 7    who said it was an outrage or an embarrassment or 

 8    shame on us -- I can give you the address for 

 9    Tom DiNapoli's office.  You can send him a letter 

10    explaining you don't wish the salary raise, and 

11    you won't get it.  And you can go home and 

12    explain to your constituents why your passion 

13    about this was so strong you turned down the 

14    increase in your salary.  I will not be sending 

15    that letter.

16                 Thank you, Mr. President.  I vote 

17    aye.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

19    Krueger to be recorded in the affirmative.

20                 Senator Serino to explain her vote.

21                 SENATOR SERINO:   Thank you, 

22    Mr. President.  I thought they had saw me raise 

23    my hand before, so I apologize.  

24                 But, you know, I can't think of a 

25    more selfish reason that we're here today.  Quite 


                                                               6086

 1    frankly, it's despicable.  It just shows, once 

 2    again, how tone-deaf and uncaring this Majority 

 3    is.  

 4                 How do you guys go home and talk to 

 5    the single parent or Mr. and Mrs. Senior that are 

 6    struggling and they're saying, Gosh, I don't know 

 7    how I'm going to pay for my gas, for my fuel 

 8    oil -- let alone buy gifts for their families, 

 9    right?  It's the holiday season.  It's supposed 

10    to be the season of giving.  Right?  Instead, 

11    it's the season of taking.  Once again, the 

12    picture is going to be greedy politicians 

13    sticking your hands in the pockets of the people 

14    who quite frankly don't have any more to take.  

15    How do you do that?  

16                 You know, they said it's going to be 

17    over $6 million a year.  Think about what that 

18    $6 million could do for HEAP, right, for people 

19    for heating oil, for the utilities right now, 

20    that are really, really struggling.  

21                 You know, if you really think that 

22    this is a great idea and you think that the 

23    public is going to say that you're deserving of 

24    this, then why don't you put it out to the public 

25    for a vote?  I actually had a bill that would do 


                                                               6087

 1    that.  Right?  If the pay commission said that 

 2    you should get the pay raise, then it should go 

 3    out to the public for a vote.  That's only fair.  

 4                 So I will proudly vote no, 

 5    Mr. President.  Thank you.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 7    Serino to be recorded in the negative.

 8                 Announce the results.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

10    Calendar 1927, those Senators voting in the 

11    negative are Senators Borrello, Brooks, Gaughran, 

12    Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Kennedy, Lanza, Liu, 

13    Mannion, Martucci, Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara, 

14    Ortt, Palumbo, Rath, Reichlin-Melnick, Serino, 

15    Skoufis, Stec, Tedisco and Weik.

16                 Ayes, 33.  Nays, 23.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

18    is passed.

19                 Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

20    reading of the controversial calendar.

21                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Is there any 

22    further business at the desk?  

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   There is 

24    no further business at the desk.

25                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   In that case, 


                                                               6088

 1    let me wish all my colleagues a Merry Christmas 

 2    for those celebrating, a happy holiday season, a 

 3    wonderful New Year, and we will see you in 

 4    January.  

 5                 I move to adjourn to a date and time 

 6    at the call of the Temporary President of the 

 7    Senate, intervening days being legislative days. 

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Happy 

 9    holidays to all, Senator Gianaris.  

10                 And on motion, the Senate stands 

11    adjourned until the call of the Temporary 

12    President, intervening days being legislative.

13                 (Whereupon, at 2:00 p.m., the Senate 

14    adjourned.)

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