Regular Session - June 9, 2023
6459
1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
2
3
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
5
6
7
8
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 June 9, 2023
11 12:53 p.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
15
16
17
18 SENATOR JAMAAL T. BAILEY, Acting President
19 ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary
20
21
22
23
24
25
6460
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 Senate will come to order.
4 I ask everyone present to please
5 rise and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.
6 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited
7 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: In the
9 absence of clergy, let us bow our heads in a
10 moment of silent reflection or prayer.
11 (Whereupon, the assemblage respected
12 a moment of silence.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
14 reading of the Journal.
15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
16 Thursday, June 8, 2023, the Senate met pursuant
17 to adjournment. The Journal of Wednesday,
18 June 7, 2023, was read and approved. On motion,
19 the Senate adjourned.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Without
21 objection, the Journal stands approved as read.
22 Presentation of petitions.
23 Messages from the Assembly.
24 The Secretary will read.
25 THE SECRETARY: Senator Ashby moves
6461
1 to discharge, from the Committee on
2 Investigations and Government Operations,
3 Assembly Bill Number 6102 and substitute it for
4 the identical Senate Bill 5962, Third Reading
5 Calendar 769.
6 Senator Brisport moves to discharge,
7 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
8 Number 4942B and substitute it for the identical
9 Senate Bill 5355A, Third Reading Calendar 809.
10 Senator Krueger moves to discharge,
11 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
12 Number 1122 and substitute it for the identical
13 Senate Bill 110, Third Reading Calendar 824.
14 Senator Harckham moves to discharge,
15 from the Committee on Health, Assembly Bill
16 Number 4117 and substitute it for the identical
17 Senate Bill 6063, Third Reading Calendar 855.
18 Senator Breslin moves to discharge,
19 from the Committee on Insurance, Assembly Bill
20 Number 4925 and substitute it for the identical
21 Senate Bill 6827, Third Reading Calendar 1189.
22 Senator Murray moves to discharge,
23 from the Committee on Local Government,
24 Assembly Bill Number 3451 and substitute it for
25 the identical Senate Bill 5796, Third Reading
6462
1 Calendar 1295.
2 Senator Rivera moves to discharge,
3 from the Committee on Health, Assembly Bill
4 Number 6030C and substitute it for the identical
5 Senate Bill 6886A, Third Reading Calendar 1332.
6 Senator Myrie moves to discharge,
7 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
8 Number 1177 and substitute it for the identical
9 Senate Bill 6195, Third Reading Calendar 1343.
10 Senator Hinchey moves to discharge,
11 from the Committee on Agriculture, Assembly Bill
12 Number 5928 and substitute it for the identical
13 Senate Bill 6185, Third Reading Calendar 1354.
14 Senator Mannion moves to discharge,
15 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
16 Number 6021A and substitute it for the identical
17 Senate Bill 3146A, Third Reading Calendar 1366.
18 Senator Rolison moves to discharge,
19 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
20 Number 5261A and substitute it for the identical
21 Senate Bill 4900A, Third Reading Calendar 1488.
22 Senator Ashby moves to discharge,
23 from the Committee on Transportation,
24 Assembly Bill Number 3162 and substitute it for
25 the identical Senate Bill 5237, Third Reading
6463
1 Calendar 1491.
2 Senator Palumbo moves to discharge,
3 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
4 Number 5931 and substitute it for the identical
5 Senate Bill 5741, Third Reading Calendar 1505.
6 Senator Rivera moves to discharge,
7 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
8 Number 5448A and substitute it for the identical
9 Senate Bill 266A, Third Reading Calendar 1739.
10 Senator May moves to discharge, from
11 the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
12 Number 1191B and substitute it for the identical
13 Senate Bill 288C, Third Reading Calendar 1792.
14 Senator Cooney moves to discharge,
15 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
16 Number 1567 and substitute it for the identical
17 Senate Bill 1045, Third Reading Calendar 1796.
18 Senator Comrie moves to discharge,
19 from the Committee on Finance, Assembly Bill
20 Number 1909 and substitute it for the identical
21 Senate Bill 1082, Third Reading Calendar 1797.
22 Senator Ortt moves to discharge,
23 from the Committee on Local Government,
24 Assembly Bill Number 2228 and substitute it for
25 the identical Senate Bill 1139, Third Reading
6464
1 Calendar 1798.
2 Senator Ortt moves to discharge,
3 from the Committee on Local Government,
4 Assembly Bill Number 2311 and substitute it for
5 the identical Senate Bill 1580, Third Reading
6 Calendar 1799.
7 Senator Ortt moves to discharge,
8 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
9 Number 2356 and substitute it for the identical
10 Senate Bill 1581, Third Reading Calendar 1800.
11 Senator Skoufis moves to discharge,
12 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
13 Number 4282B and substitute it for the identical
14 Senate Bill 3505B, Third Reading Calendar 1802.
15 Senator Harckham moves to discharge,
16 from the Committee on Finance, Assembly Bill
17 Number 121A and substitute it for the identical
18 Senate Bill 5372A, Third Reading Calendar 1804.
19 Senator Harckham moves to discharge,
20 from the Committee on Finance, Assembly Bill
21 Number 119A and substitute it for the identical
22 Senate Bill 5394A, Third Reading Calendar 1805.
23 Senator Hoylman-Sigal moves to
24 discharge, from the Committee on Judiciary,
25 Assembly Bill Number 1967 and substitute it for
6465
1 the identical Senate Bill 5400, Third Reading
2 Calendar 1806.
3 Senator Jackson moves to discharge,
4 from the Committee on Finance, Assembly Bill
5 Number 5679 and substitute it for the identical
6 Senate Bill 5653, Third Reading Calendar 1807.
7 Senator Weik moves to discharge,
8 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
9 Number 5799A and substitute it for the identical
10 Senate Bill 5814A, Third Reading Calendar 1809.
11 Senator Weber moves to discharge,
12 from the Committee on Transportation,
13 Assembly Bill Number 4793 and substitute it for
14 the identical Senate Bill 6027, Third Reading
15 Calendar 1811.
16 Senator Martins moves to discharge,
17 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
18 Number 6557A and substitute it for the identical
19 Senate Bill 6309A, Third Reading Calendar 1813.
20 Senator Jackson moves to discharge,
21 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
22 Number 6731 and substitute it for the identical
23 Senate Bill 6598, Third Reading Calendar 1815.
24 Senator Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick moves
25 to discharge, from the Committee on Commerce,
6466
1 Economic Development and Small Business,
2 Assembly Bill Number 7073 and substitute it for
3 the identical Senate Bill 6681, Third Reading
4 Calendar 1816.
5 Senator Rhoads moves to discharge,
6 from the Committee on Transportation,
7 Assembly Bill Number 4212 and substitute it for
8 the identical Senate Bill 6706, Third Reading
9 Calendar 1817.
10 Senator Thomas moves to discharge,
11 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
12 Number 6568B and substitute it for the identical
13 Senate Bill 6714B, Third Reading Calendar 1818.
14 Senator May moves to discharge, from
15 the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
16 Number 7391A and substitute it for the identical
17 Senate Bill 7493, Third Reading Calendar 1824.
18 Senator Jackson moves to discharge,
19 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
20 Number 4018 and substitute it for the identical
21 Senate Bill 1991, Third Reading Calendar 1838.
22 Senator Jackson moves to discharge,
23 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
24 Number 5630 and substitute it for the identical
25 Senate Bill 5849, Third Reading Calendar 1810.
6467
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: So
2 ordered.
3 Messages from the Governor.
4 Reports of standing committees.
5 Reports of select committees.
6 Communications and reports from
7 state officers.
8 Motions and resolutions.
9 Senator Gianaris.
10 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
11 let's move right into the calendar.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
13 Secretary will read.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 126, Senate Print 1201A, by Senator Parker, an
16 act to amend the Public Service Law.
17 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
18 SENATOR GIANARIS: Lay it aside for
19 the day.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
21 will be laid aside for the day.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 443, Senate Print 4899A, by Senator Rolison, an
24 act to amend the Highway Law.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
6468
1 last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
8 the results.
9 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
10 Calendar Number 443, voting in the negative:
11 Senator Brisport.
12 Ayes, 57. Nays, 1.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
14 is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 595, Senate Print 4814A, by Senator Harckham, an
17 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law.
18 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Lay the
20 bill aside.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 605, Senate Print 5836, by Senator Stec, an act
23 to amend the Town Law.
24 SENATOR GIANARIS: Lay it aside.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Lay it
6469
1 aside.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 668, Senate Print 6218A, by Senator Parker, an
4 act to amend the Public Authorities Law.
5 (Pause.)
6 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
7 let's stand at ease for five minutes, please.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
9 Senate will stand at ease temporarily.
10 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease
11 at 1:01 p.m.)
12 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at
13 1:23 p.m.)
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
15 Senate will return to order.
16 Senator Gianaris.
17 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
18 please recognize Senator Lanza.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
20 Lanza.
21 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President,
22 there will be an immediate meeting of the
23 Republican Conference in Room 315 of the Capitol.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There
25 will be an immediate meeting of the
6470
1 Republican Conference in Room 315 of the Capitol.
2 SENATOR GIANARIS: The Senate
3 stands at ease.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5 Senate will stand at ease.
6 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease
7 at 1:23 p.m.)
8 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at
9 2:32 p.m.)
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
11 Senate will return to order.
12 Senator Gianaris.
13 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
14 let's begin by removing the lay-asides on
15 Calendar Numbers 595 and 605. And we can
16 continue with the calendar, starting with 595.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
18 lay-asides on Calendar Numbers 595 and 605 will
19 be removed.
20 The Secretary will read.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 595, Senate Print 4814A, by Senator Harckham, an
23 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
25 last section.
6471
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect on the 30th day after it
3 shall have become a law.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
8 the results.
9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
11 is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 605, Senate Print 5836, by Senator Stec, an act
14 to amend the Town Law.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
16 last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
23 the results.
24 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
25 Calendar Number 605, voting in the negative:
6472
1 Senator May.
2 Ayes, 62. Nays, 1.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
4 is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 668, Senate Print 6218A, by Senator Parker, an
7 act to amend the Public Authorities Law.
8 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Lay it
10 aside.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 746, Senate Print 2943B, by Senator Kavanagh, an
13 act to apply the Housing Stability and
14 Tenant Protection Act.
15 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Lay it
17 aside.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 747, Senate Print 2980C, by Senator Kavanagh, an
20 act to amend the Administrative Code of the City
21 of New York.
22 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Lay it
24 aside.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6473
1 769, Assembly Bill Number 6102, by
2 Assemblymember McDonald, an act to amend the
3 Public Officers Law.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
5 last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This be
7 this act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
12 the results.
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 804, Senate Print 5850A, by Senator Rhoads, an
18 act authorizing the Seaford Fire District to
19 receive retroactive real property tax exempt
20 status.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
22 last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
24 act shall take effect immediately.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
6474
1 roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
4 the results.
5 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
6 Calendar 804, those Senators voting in the
7 negative are Senators Bailey and O'Mara.
8 Ayes, 61. Nays, 2.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
10 is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 809, Assembly Bill Number 4942B, by
13 Assemblymember Forrest, an act to amend the
14 Education Law.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
16 last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
23 the results.
24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
6475
1 is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 823, Senate Print 6349A, by Senator Breslin, an
4 act to amend the Executive Law.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
6 a home-rule message at the desk.
7 Read the last section.
8 The bill is high and will be laid
9 aside for the day.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 824, Assembly Bill Number 1122, by
12 Assemblymember Epstein, an act to amend the
13 State Finance Law.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
15 last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect on the 180th day after it
18 shall have become a law.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
23 the results.
24 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
25 Calendar 824, those Senators voting in the
6476
1 negative are Senators Ashby, Borrello,
2 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming,
3 Lanza, Martins, Mattera, Murray, Oberacker,
4 O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, Rolison, Stec,
5 Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.
6 Ayes, 42. Nays, 21.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 855, Assembly Bill Number 4117, by
11 Assemblymember Paulin, an act to amend the
12 Public Health Law.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
14 last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
18 roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
21 the results.
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
24 is passed.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6477
1 887, Senate Print 6573, by Senator May, an act to
2 amend the Executive Law.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
4 last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
8 roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
11 the results.
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
14 is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1056, Senate Print 6749B, by Senator Rivera, an
17 act to amend the Public Health Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
19 last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
23 roll.
24 (The Secretary called the roll.)
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
6478
1 the results.
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
4 is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1073, Senate Print 1051A, by Senator Cooney, an
7 act to amend the Executive Law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Calendar
9 Number 1073 is high and will be laid aside for
10 the day.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1153, Senate Print 6893, by Senator Harckham, an
13 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law.
14 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Lay it
16 aside.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1189, Assembly Bill Number 4925, by
19 Assemblymember Hunter, an act to amend the
20 Insurance Law.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
22 last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
24 act shall take effect immediately.
25 SENATOR GIANARIS: Lay it aside for
6479
1 the day, please.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
3 will be laid aside for the day.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1225, Senate Print 5965A, by Senator Bailey, an
6 act to amend the Correction Law.
7 SENATOR GIANARIS: Lay it aside
8 temporarily.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
10 will be laid aside temporarily.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1295, Assembly Bill Number 3451, by
13 Assemblymember DeStefano, an act in relation to
14 authorizing the Ruth AME Zion Church to file with
15 the Town of Brookhaven assessor an application
16 for certain real property tax exemptions.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
18 last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
25 the results.
6480
1 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
2 Calendar 1295, voting in the negative are
3 Senators O'Mara and Skoufis.
4 Ayes, 61. Nays, 2.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
6 is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1297, Senate Print 6493C, by Senator Griffo, an
9 act to amend Chapter 639 of the Laws of 1970.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
11 last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
18 the results.
19 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
20 Calendar Number 1297, voting in the negative:
21 Senator Skoufis.
22 Ayes, 62. Nays, 1.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
24 is passed.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6481
1 1299, Senate Print 6858B, by Senator Rhoads, an
2 act authorizing the County of Nassau assessor to
3 accept an application for a real property tax
4 exemption.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
6 is high and will be laid aside temporarily.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1300, Senate Print 6906, by Senator Cleare, an
9 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
11 last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect on the 120th day after it
14 shall have become a law.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
19 the results.
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
22 is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 1332, Assembly Bill Number 6030C, by
25 Assemblymember Paulin, an act to amend the
6482
1 Education Law.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
3 last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
10 the results.
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
13 is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1343, Assembly Bill Number 1177, by
16 Assemblymember Paulin, an act to amend the
17 Election Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
19 last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
23 roll.
24 (The Secretary called the roll.)
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
6483
1 the results.
2 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
3 Calendar 1343, those Senators voting in the
4 negative are Senators Ashby, Borrello,
5 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming,
6 Lanza, Martins, Mattera, Murray, Oberacker,
7 O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, Rolison, Stec,
8 Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.
9 Ayes, 42. Nays, 21.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
11 is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1354, Assembly Bill Number 5928, by
14 Assemblymember Stirpe, an act to amend the
15 Agriculture and Markets Law.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
17 last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
24 the results.
25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
6484
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
2 is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1366, Assembly Bill Number 6021A, by
5 Assemblymember Paulin, an act to amend the
6 Social Services Law.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
8 last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
12 roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
15 the results.
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
18 is passed.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1488, Assembly Bill Number 5261A, by
21 Assemblymember Beephan, an act to amend the
22 Highway Law.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
24 last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6485
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
6 the results.
7 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
8 Calendar Number 1488, voting in the negative:
9 Senator Brisport.
10 Ayes, 62. Nays, 1.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
12 is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1491, Assembly Bill Number 3162, by
15 Assemblymember Woerner, an act to amend the
16 Highway Law.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
18 last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
25 the results.
6486
1 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
2 Calendar Number 1491, voting in the negative:
3 Senator Brisport.
4 Ayes, 62. Nays, 1.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
6 is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1505, Assembly Bill Number 5931, by
9 Assemblymember Thiele, an act permitting the
10 Town Board of the Town of East Hampton to provide
11 health insurance coverage for enrolled members of
12 the East Hampton Volunteer Ocean Rescue and
13 Auxiliary Squad.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
15 a home-rule message at the desk.
16 Read the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
23 the results.
24 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
25 Calendar Number 1505, voting in the negative:
6487
1 Senator Skoufis.
2 Ayes, 62. Nays, 1.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
4 is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1580, Senate Print 6441B, by Senator Skoufis, an
7 act relating to approving certain employee
8 benefit costs for transportation employees for
9 the Goshen Central School District.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
11 last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
18 the results.
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
21 is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1603, Senate Print 7509, by Senator Jackson, an
24 act to amend the Retirement and Social Security
25 Law.
6488
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
2 a home-rule message at the desk.
3 Read the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
10 the results.
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
13 is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1728, Senate Print 7541, by Senator Comrie, an
16 act to amend the Public Authorities Law.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
18 last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
25 the results.
6489
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
3 is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1739, Assembly Bill Number 5448A, by
6 Assemblymember Gunther, an act to amend the
7 Public Health Law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
9 last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
11 act shall take effect on the 180th day after it
12 shall have become a law.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
14 roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
17 the results.
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
20 is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 1792, Assembly Bill Number 1191B, by
23 Assemblymember Epstein, an act to amend the
24 Environmental Conservation Law.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
6490
1 last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect on the first of February.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
8 the results.
9 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
10 Calendar Number 1792, voting in the negative:
11 Senator Walczyk.
12 Ayes, 62. Nays, 1.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
14 is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1793, Senate Print 513B, by Senator Thomas, an
17 act to amend the Education Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
19 last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect on the first of July.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
23 roll.
24 (The Secretary called the roll.)
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
6491
1 Thomas to explain his vote.
2 SENATOR THOMAS: Thank you,
3 Mr. President.
4 It's one of those weeks where we
5 pass some historic legislation. And this bill
6 before us is important to the Asian-American
7 community. We are one of the fastest-growing
8 ethnic communities here in New York State. And
9 for decades we had to choose between sending our
10 kids to school or observing that religious
11 holiday.
12 Today, because of our supermajority
13 leader and all those that supported the
14 Asian Caucus within this conference, we are able
15 to put this bill on the floor. This bill allows
16 school districts outside of New York City to give
17 a holiday to those who observe Eid, Diwali,
18 Lunar New Year, among many other Asian and
19 East Asian holidays.
20 This is a big deal. And I want to
21 thank my colleagues for their support in bringing
22 this to the floor. This is important to our
23 communities out in the suburbs. This is
24 important to our youth, who need to understand
25 the values that this country has for them.
6492
1 And I am so proud of this moment
2 today, and I proudly vote in the affirmative.
3 Thank you.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
5 Thomas to be recorded in the affirmative.
6 Announce the results.
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
9 is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1794, Senate Print 961, by Senator Bailey, an act
12 to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
14 last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
18 roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
21 the results.
22 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
23 Calendar 1794, those Senators voting in the
24 negative are Senators Ashby, Borrello,
25 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming,
6493
1 Lanza, Martinez, Martins, Mattera, Murray,
2 Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads,
3 Rolison, Scarcella-Spanton, Stec, Tedisco,
4 Walczyk, Weber and Weik.
5 Ayes, 40. Nays, 23.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
7 is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1795, Senate Print 1039A, by Senator Jackson, an
10 act to amend the Civil Service Law.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
12 last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
19 Jackson to explain his vote.
20 SENATOR JACKSON: Thank you,
21 Mr. President. I rise in order to support this
22 bill, S1039A.
23 This bill is of utmost importance,
24 as it seeks to ensure that permanent non-New York
25 City government employees receive a fair
6494
1 due-process hearing in line with the principles
2 of justice and fairness.
3 The purpose of this bill is clear,
4 to provide permanent non-New York City government
5 employees facing disciplinary charges with an
6 unbiased and fair hearing process, as outlined in
7 Section 75 of the Civil Service Law. While
8 maintaining the existent disciplinary process for
9 New York City employees, this bill recognizes the
10 exceptional track record and expertise of the
11 Trials Division of the New York City Office of
12 Administrative Trials and Hearings.
13 By appointing an impartial
14 arbitrator selected by mutual agreement of both
15 parties from a designated list maintained by the
16 Public Employment Relations Board, we guarantee a
17 fair opportunity for employers and employees to
18 present their respective cases. This approach
19 fosters transparency, accountability, and the
20 proper adjudication of disciplinary matters.
21 Furthermore, Mr. President, this
22 bill ensures that Civil Service employees are
23 protected from unjust suspensions without pay
24 during the hearing procedures. By affording
25 civil service employees the same due process
6495
1 rights, we maintain consistency and uphold the
2 principles of fairness across different sectors.
3 In conclusion, Mr. President,
4 supporting S1039A is an affirmation of our
5 commitment to justice and fairness. By
6 establishing a more equitable hearing process and
7 safeguarding the rights of civil service
8 employees, we demonstrate our dedication to
9 upholding the values underpinning our democratic
10 society.
11 I proudly vote aye, Mr. President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
13 Jackson to be recorded in the affirmative.
14 Announce the results.
15 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
16 Calendar 1795, those Senators voting in the
17 negative are Senators Ashby, Borrello,
18 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming,
19 Martins, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Rhoads, Stec,
20 Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.
21 Ayes, 47. Nays, 16.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
23 is passed.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 1796, Assembly Bill Number 1567, by
6496
1 Assemblymember McDonald, an act to amend the
2 General Municipal Law.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
4 last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
8 roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
11 the results.
12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
14 is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1797, Assembly Bill Number 1909, by
17 Assemblymember Zinerman, an act to amend
18 Chapter 696 of the Laws of 1887.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
20 last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
24 roll.
25 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6497
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
2 the results.
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
5 is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1798, Assembly Bill Number 2228, by
8 Assemblymember Morinello, an act to amend
9 Chapter 20 of the Laws of 1985.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
11 last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
18 the results.
19 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
20 Calendar Number 1798, voting in the negative:
21 Senator Bailey.
22 Ayes, 62. Nays, 1.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
24 is passed.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6498
1 1799, Assembly Bill Number 2311, by
2 Assemblymember Morinello, an act to amend
3 Chapter 363 of the Laws of 1982.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
5 last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
12 the results.
13 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
14 Calendar Number 1799, voting in the negative:
15 Senator Bailey.
16 Ayes, 62. Nays, 1.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
18 is passed.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1800, Assembly Bill Number 2356, by
21 Assemblymember Morinello, an act to amend
22 Chapter 19 of the Laws of 1985.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
24 last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6499
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
6 the results.
7 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
8 Calendar Number 1800, voting in the negative:
9 Senator Bailey.
10 Ayes, 62. Nays, 1.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
12 is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1801, Senate Print 2985C, by Senator Kavanagh, an
15 act to amend the General Municipal Law.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
17 last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 37. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
24 the results.
25 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
6500
1 Calendar 1801, those Senators voting in the
2 negative are Senators Borrello, Helming,
3 Martinez, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Rhoads,
4 Scarcella-Spanton, Stec, Tedisco and Walczyk.
5 Ayes, 52. Nays, 11.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
7 is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1802, Assembly Bill Number 4282B, by
10 Assemblymember Paulin, an act to amend the
11 Town Law.
12 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Lay it
14 aside.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1804, Assembly Bill Number 121A, by
17 Assemblymember Magnarelli, an act to amend the
18 Military Law.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
20 last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
22 act shall take effect on the first of April.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
24 roll.
25 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6501
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
2 the results.
3 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
4 Calendar Number 1804, voting in the negative:
5 Senator Brisport.
6 Ayes, 62. Nays, 1.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1805, Assembly Bill Number 119A, by
11 Assemblymember Magnarelli, an act to amend the
12 Military Law.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
14 last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
16 act shall take effect on the first of April.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
18 roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
21 the results.
22 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
23 Calendar Number 1805, voting in the negative:
24 Senator Brisport.
25 Ayes, 62. Nays, 1.
6502
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
2 is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1806, Assembly Bill Number 1967, by
5 Assemblymember Carroll, an act to amend the
6 Real Property Law.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
8 last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
10 act shall take effect on the 180th day after it
11 shall have become a law.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
16 the results.
17 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
18 Calendar 1806, those Senators voting in the
19 negative are Senators Ashby, Borrello,
20 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Gallivan, Griffo,
21 Harckham, Martins, Mattera, Murray, Oberacker,
22 O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, Rolison, Skoufis,
23 Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.
24 Ayes, 42. Nays, 21.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
6503
1 is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1807, Assembly Bill Number 5679, by
4 Assemblymember Pheffer Amato, an act to amend the
5 Retirement and Social Security Law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
7 last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
14 the results.
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
17 is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1808, Senate Print 5678, by Senator Gounardes, an
20 act to amend the Administrative Code of the City
21 of New York.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
23 a home-rule message at the desk.
24 Read the last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6504
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
6 the results.
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
9 is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1809, Assembly Bill Number 5799A, by
12 Assemblymember Gandolfo, an act to authorize the
13 Town of Islip, County of Suffolk, to discontinue
14 as parklands and lease certain lands.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is a
16 home-rule message at the desk.
17 Read the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
24 the results.
25 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
6505
1 Calendar Number 1809, voting in the negative:
2 Senator Skoufis.
3 Ayes, 62. Nays, 1.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
5 is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1810, Assembly Bill Number 5630, by
8 Assemblymember Jones, an act to amend the
9 Retirement and Social Security Law.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
11 last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
18 the results.
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
21 is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1811, Assembly Bill Number 4793, by
24 Assemblymember McGowan, an act to amend the
25 Highway Law.
6506
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
2 last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
9 the results.
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
12 is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1812, Senate Print 6169A, by Senator Cleare, an
15 act to amend the Election Law.
16 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Lay it
18 aside.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1813, Assembly Bill Number 6557A, by
21 Assemblymember Sillitti, an act in relation to
22 authorizing the County of Nassau assessor to
23 accept an application for a real property tax
24 exemption.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
6507
1 last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
8 the results.
9 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
10 Calendar Number 1813, voting in the negative:
11 Senator O'Mara.
12 Ayes, 62. Nays, 1.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
14 is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1814, Senate Print 6500, by Senator Kennedy, an
17 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
19 last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
23 roll.
24 (The Secretary called the roll.)
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
6508
1 Borrello to explain his vote.
2 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
3 Mr. President.
4 I'm going to support this bill.
5 However, I'm very disappointed because -- I think
6 we all recall last year Chautauqua Institution,
7 which I represent, where author Salman Rushdie
8 was attacked by a terrorist. This was
9 international news. And we had the Governor come
10 out, and all kinds of people come out saying how
11 this is horrible. And the Governor said if the
12 bill to provide peace officer status to
13 Chautauqua Institution's police force was brought
14 to her desk, she would sign it.
15 But we cannot get that. I'm
16 grateful that we're able to get it for these
17 Parks officers. They need it. But in an
18 emergency situation like that, precious seconds
19 count. And without that peace officer status,
20 they cannot use the force that they need to
21 ensure that they can keep people safe.
22 This is a disappointment to not just
23 me but everyone who understands how important
24 Chautauqua Institution is but, more importantly,
25 how important public safety is and the appearance
6509
1 of vulnerability is to a place like that.
2 So while I will vote aye, I am
3 disappointed that politics is being chosen over
4 public safety.
5 Thank you.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
7 Borrello to be recorded in the affirmative.
8 Announce the results.
9 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
10 Calendar 1814, those Senators voting in the
11 negative are Senators Ashby, Bailey, Borrello,
12 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Griffo, Krueger, Martins,
13 Mattera, Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt,
14 Palumbo. Senator Lanza. Also Senator Rivera,
15 Senator Rhoads -- I'll start over.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
17 the results.
18 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
19 Calendar 1814, those Senators voting in the
20 negative are Senators Ashby, Bailey, Brisport,
21 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Fernandez, Griffo,
22 Krueger, Lanza, Martins, Mattera, Murray,
23 Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, Rivera,
24 Rolison, Skoufis, Stec, Tedisco, Weber and Weik.
25 Ayes, 40. Nays, 23.
6510
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
2 is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 1815, Assembly Bill Number 6731, by
5 Assemblymember Stern, an act to amend the
6 Retirement and Social Security Law.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
8 a home-rule message at the desk.
9 Read the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
16 the results.
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
19 is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1816, Assembly Bill Number 7073, by
22 Assemblymember Curran, an act to amend the
23 Alcoholic Beverage Control Law.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
25 last section.
6511
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
7 the results.
8 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
9 Calendar Number 1816, voting in the negative:
10 Senator Skoufis.
11 Ayes, 62. Nays, 1.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
13 is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1817, Assembly Bill Number 4212, by
16 Assemblymember McDonough, an act to amend the
17 Highway Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
19 last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
23 roll.
24 (The Secretary called the roll.)
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
6512
1 the results.
2 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
3 Calendar Number 1817, voting in the negative:
4 Senator Brisport.
5 Ayes, 62. Nays, 1.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
7 is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1818, Assembly Bill Number 6568B, by
10 Assemblymember McDonald, an act in relation to
11 establishing the New York State Organized Retail
12 Crime Task Force.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
14 last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
18 roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
21 the results.
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
24 is passed.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6513
1 1819, Senate Print 6877, by Senator Gounardes, an
2 act to amend the Administrative Code of the City
3 of New York.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
5 a home-rule message at the desk.
6 Read the last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
13 the results.
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
16 is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1820, Senate Print 6993A, by Senator Ryan, an act
19 to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
21 last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
25 roll.
6514
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
3 the results.
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
6 is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1821, Senate Print 7356, by Senator Stavisky, an
9 act to amend the Education Law.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
11 last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect on the 180th day after it
14 shall have become a law.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
19 the results.
20 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
21 Calendar 1821, those Senators voting in the
22 negative are Senators Borrello, Griffo, Lanza,
23 Martinez, Mattera, Murray, Oberacker, Palumbo,
24 Rhoads, Stec, Walczyk and Weik. Also Senator
25 Tedisco.
6515
1 Ayes, 50. Nays, 13.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
3 is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1822, Senate Print 7362A, by Senator Cooney, an
6 act to amend the General Municipal Law.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
8 is high and will be laid aside temporarily.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1823, Senate Print 7395C, by Senator Weber, an
11 act in relation to authorizing the assessor of
12 the Town of Ramapo, County of Rockland, to accept
13 an application for a real property tax exemption.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
15 last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
22 the results.
23 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
24 Calendar Number 1823, those Senators voting in
25 the negative are Senators O'Mara and Skoufis.
6516
1 Also Senator Palumbo.
2 Ayes, 60. Nays, 3.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
4 is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 1824, Assembly Bill Number 7391A, by
7 Assemblymember Lemondes, an act to amend the
8 Tax Law.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
10 a home-rule message at the desk.
11 Read the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
18 the results.
19 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
20 Calendar Number 1824, those Senators voting in
21 the negative are Senators Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick,
22 Felder, Harckham, Hinchey, Kennedy, Lanza,
23 Mannion, Martinez, Mattera, Murray, O'Mara, Ortt,
24 Palumbo, Rhoads, Scarcella-Spanton, Skoufis,
25 Tedisco and Webb.
6517
1 Ayes, 45. Nays, 18.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
3 is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1825, Senate Print 7533A, by Senator Hinchey, an
6 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
8 last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 SENATOR GIANARIS: Lay it aside
12 temporarily.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
14 will be laid aside temporarily.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 1826, Senate Print 7549A, by Senator Thomas, an
17 act relating to a temporary in rem foreclosure
18 moratorium.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
20 last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
24 roll.
25 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6518
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
2 the results.
3 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
4 Calendar 1826, those Senators voting in the
5 negative are Senators Ashby, Borrello,
6 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming,
7 Martins, Mattera, Murray, O'Mara, Palumbo,
8 Rhoads, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.
9 Ayes, 46. Nays, 17.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
11 is passed.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1827, Senate Print 7551A, by Senator Myrie, an
14 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.
15 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Lay it
17 aside.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1828, Senate Print 7552, by Senator Addabbo, an
20 act to amend the Education Law.
21 SENATOR GIANARIS: Lay it aside
22 temporarily.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
24 will be laid aside temporarily.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6519
1 1829, Senate Print 7553, by Senator Thomas, an
2 act to amend the General Business Law.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
4 last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 13. This
6 act shall take effect on the 180th day after it
7 shall have become a law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
9 roll.
10 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Lay it
12 aside.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 1830, Senate Print Number 7559, by
15 Senator Scarcella-Spanton, an act to amend the
16 Retirement and Social Security Law.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
18 last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
25 the results.
6520
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
3 is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1831, Senate Print Number 7561, by
6 Senator Hoylman-Sigal, an act to amend the
7 Executive Law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
9 last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
16 the results.
17 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
18 Calendar Number 1831, those Senators voting in
19 the negative are Senators Helming and Walczyk.
20 Ayes, 61. Nays, 2.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
22 is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 1832, Senate Print 7562, by Senator Gianaris, an
25 act to amend Part D of Chapter 59 of the Laws of
6521
1 2023.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
3 last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
10 the results.
11 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
12 Calendar 1832, those Senators voting in the
13 negative are Senators Ashby,
14 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Helming, Murray, O'Mara,
15 Ortt, Rhoads, Skoufis, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk,
16 Weber and Weik.
17 Ayes, 50. Nays, 13.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
19 is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1833, Senate Print 7563, by Senator Sanders, an
22 act to amend the New York City Charter.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
24 last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6522
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
6 the results.
7 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
8 Calendar 1833, those Senators voting in the
9 negative are Senators Ashby, Borrello,
10 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming,
11 Martins, Mattera, Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara,
12 Palumbo, Rhoads, Rolison, Skoufis, Stec, Tedisco,
13 Walczyk, Weber and Weik.
14 Ayes, 43. Nays, 20.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
16 is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1834, Senate Print 7564, by Senator Myrie, an act
19 to amend the Election Law.
20 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Lay it
22 aside.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 1835, Senate Print 7575, by Senator Jackson, an
25 act implementing an agreement between the state
6523
1 and an employee organization.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
3 Gianaris.
4 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there a
5 message of necessity at the desk?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
7 a message of necessity at the desk.
8 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
9 the message of necessity.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: All those
11 in favor of accepting the message please signify
12 by saying aye.
13 (Response of "Aye.")
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
15 nay.
16 (No response.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
18 message is accepted and the bill is before the
19 house.
20 Read the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 20. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
24 roll.
25 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6524
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
2 the results.
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
5 is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1836, Senate Print 7576, by Senator Jackson, an
8 act to amend the Civil Service Law.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
10 Gianaris.
11 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President, I
12 believe there's another message of necessity at
13 the desk.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
15 a message of necessity at the desk.
16 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
17 the message.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: All those
19 in favor of accepting the message please signify
20 by saying aye.
21 (Response of "Aye.")
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
23 nay.
24 (No response.)
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
6525
1 message is accepted, and the bill is before the
2 house.
3 Read the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
10 the results.
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
13 is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 1837, Senate Print 7579, by Senator Kennedy, an
16 act to amend the Executive Law.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
18 Gianaris.
19 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President, I
20 believe there's another message of necessity at
21 the desk.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
23 a message of necessity.
24 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
25 the message.
6526
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: All those
2 in favor of accepting the message please signify
3 by saying aye.
4 (Response of "Aye.")
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
6 nay.
7 (No response.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
9 message is accepted, and the bill is before the
10 house.
11 Read the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
18 Borrello to explain his vote.
19 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
20 Mr. President.
21 First of all, I want to thank the
22 sponsor, Senator Kennedy, for bringing this
23 forward.
24 This has been a very sensitive
25 subject for a lot of us. You know, the
6527
1 Seneca Nation and what they do for our economy is
2 very important. But for me, they are not only my
3 constituents, they are my friends, my neighbors,
4 people that I grew up with in this area. And
5 this compact is critically important to them, but
6 also to the communities that are supported by the
7 economic activity of the Seneca Nation.
8 This bill provides essentially
9 permission for the Governor to negotiate a
10 compact agreement. And I would just implore her
11 to do the right thing. I think we all know
12 what that is. And there are important things in
13 this bill, like the exclusivity, that is not just
14 good for the Senecas but is good basic business.
15 That we understand that there has
16 been many, many years of the previous
17 administration attacking the Seneca Nation on a
18 number of fronts -- petty things, including
19 violating the current compact that we were
20 operating under.
21 So it's time to step up and do the
22 right thing. We've talked about it in this
23 chamber, we've passed a bill to try to ensure
24 that we are sensitive to all of our Native
25 tribes. But those things are just words. This
6528
1 is the action. This compact is the action.
2 And the Governor has some inherent
3 conflicts of interest, which is why I wanted to
4 see the Comptroller oversee this process and
5 approve it so that there would be above-board
6 integrity in this whole process.
7 So absent that, we're going to have
8 to rely on good faith. I know the Senecas have
9 it. Let's hope our Governor has it as well.
10 I vote aye. Thank you.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
12 Borrello to be recorded in the affirmative.
13 Senator Kennedy to explain his vote.
14 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you,
15 Mr. President.
16 I rise to speak on this bill that
17 I'm very proud to sponsor that will authorize
18 New York State to enter into negotiations with
19 the Seneca Nation to amend and continue the
20 tribal state compact. What we've heard over the
21 last few days is that those negotiations have not
22 only gone very well, but that there's been an
23 agreement in principle.
24 What this bill does is it takes the
25 step to enable that agreement-in-principle to
6529
1 move forward. This bill enshrines strong labor
2 protections for unions to organize at
3 Nation-owned facilities, and ensures the Nation
4 will maintain an adequate civil recovery system
5 that guarantees fundamental due process to
6 visitors and guests as well as maintains
7 sufficient liability insurance.
8 For generations, New York State and
9 our federal government has broken promises and
10 oppressed Native people all across our state, all
11 across our nation, all across the Western
12 Hemisphere. A lack of trust and decades of
13 neglect has undermined what should have been a
14 relationship built on mutual respect and
15 understanding.
16 This has resulted in disparities
17 perpetuated by decades of generational trauma,
18 disinvestment, and discrimination that these
19 Nations have faced. Today, we take a major step
20 forward for the relationship between New York
21 State and the Seneca Nation. The Seneca Nation
22 is responsible for over 5,000 direct jobs and
23 over 5,000 indirect jobs in the Western New York
24 region, the majority of which are non-Native.
25 The Seneca Nation is responsible
6530
1 also for over $300 million in annual wages to our
2 local economy. And the Nation spends over
3 $600 million annually to vendors and suppliers, a
4 true economic generator.
5 The economic impact, well over a
6 billion dollars in Western New York alone, not to
7 mention the reciprocal economic impact all across
8 New York State -- that revenue goes to local
9 communities like Niagara Falls, Buffalo,
10 Salamanca, making up a significant portion of
11 revenue for each of these host communities.
12 And with legislation that we passed
13 just yesterday, that funding is going to continue
14 to move forward. And funding for services for
15 the people of the Nation, including healthcare,
16 education, housing, elder services,
17 infrastructure, public safety and so much more is
18 impacted by the negotiations that this
19 legislation allows to move forward.
20 Since 2002, over 20 years the
21 Seneca Nation has invested over $2 billion in
22 capital spending in its facilities in
23 Western New York. Now we stand here today
24 because there's another opportunity for New York
25 State to make good on our commitment to our
6531
1 Native neighbors and the approval of a fair
2 compact with the Seneca Nation that is good for
3 all parties involved.
4 I want to thank our great Majority
5 Leader, Andrea Stewart-Cousins, for prioritizing
6 this important piece of legislation and for
7 empowering myself and members of the Subcommittee
8 on Native American Relations that worked not just
9 out in Western New York, but all across New York
10 State to give the Native people a voice that they
11 rightfully deserve -- for the first time ever in
12 nearly 200 years of existence of this great
13 state.
14 With that, Mr. President, I'm proud
15 to vote aye.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
17 Kennedy to be recorded in the affirmative.
18 Announce the results.
19 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
20 Calendar 1837, voting in the negative:
21 Senator Cooney.
22 Ayes, 62. Nays, 1.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
24 is passed.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6532
1 1838, Assembly Bill Number 4018, by
2 Assemblymember Pheffer Amato, an act to amend the
3 Retirement and Social Security Law.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
5 last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
7 act shall take effect on the 60th day after it
8 shall have become a law.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
13 the results.
14 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
15 Calendar Number 1838, voting in the negative:
16 Senator Brisport.
17 Ayes, 62. Nays, 1.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
19 is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1839, Senate Print 6361, by Senator Brouk, an act
22 to amend the Education Law.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
24 last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
6533
1 act shall take effect on the 60th day after it
2 shall have become a law.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
7 the results.
8 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
9 Calendar 1839, those Senators voting in the
10 negative are Senators Ashby, Borrello,
11 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming,
12 Martinez, Martins, Mattera, Murray, Oberacker,
13 O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, Rolison, Stec,
14 Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.
15 Ayes, 42. Nays, 21.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
17 is passed.
18 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
19 reading of today's calendar.
20 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
21 let's move on to the controversial calendar,
22 beginning with Calendar Number 1834, please.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
24 Secretary will ring the bell.
25 The Secretary will read.
6534
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1834, Senate Print 7564, by Senator Myrie, an act
3 to amend the Election Law.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
5 Lanza, why do you rise?
6 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, good
7 afternoon. I believe there's an amendment at the
8 desk. I waive the reading of that amendment and
9 ask that you recognize Senator Walczyk.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: (Pause.)
11 I'm sorry, Senator Lanza, thank you. I
12 appreciate that.
13 Upon review of the amendment, in
14 accordance with Rule 6, Section 4B, I rule it
15 nongermane and out of order at this time.
16 SENATOR LANZA: Accordingly,
17 Mr. President, I appeal the ruling of the chair
18 and ask that you recognize Senator Walczyk to be
19 heard on the appeal.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
21 appeal has been made and recognized, and
22 Senator Walczyk may be heard.
23 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you,
24 Mr. President.
25 I know you're all familiar with
6535
1 Rule 6, but if you would allow me just a moment
2 to explain the germaneness of this amendment.
3 So the bill-in-chief before us is
4 actually titled "relates to public campaign
5 financing; repealer." And this amendment is
6 germane to the bill-in-chief because this bill
7 makes amendments to the public campaign finance
8 program, and this amendment repeals, actually,
9 the entire program. So it's a full repealer.
10 By repealing this program that is
11 essentially welfare for politicians, we can save
12 an estimated $100 million for every four-year
13 election cycle, and that's just a starting
14 number. Instead of using this money to run
15 negative campaign ads, this money, which is
16 taxpayer money, could be used to pay for
17 additional educational services, mental health
18 services, public safety services, a lot of the
19 wish list for my colleagues across the aisle on
20 budgetary items that they just ran out of
21 taxpayer money for.
22 This money would be much better used
23 serving the New Yorkers that sent it to us here
24 in Albany, especially for the most vulnerable
25 New Yorkers. And for these reasons, I strongly
6536
1 urge everyone to support this amendment and do a
2 full repealer of the public campaign financing
3 program.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
5 you, Senator Walczyk.
6 I want to remind the house that the
7 vote is on the procedures of the house and the
8 ruling of the chair.
9 Those in favor of overruling the
10 chair, signify by saying aye.
11 (Response of "Aye.")
12 SENATOR LANZA: Show of hands.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: A show of
14 hands has been requested. Without objection, so
15 ordered.
16 Announce the results.
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 21.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
19 ruling of the chair stands, and the bill-in-chief
20 is before the house.
21 Senator Walczyk, why do you rise?
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: Mr. President, I
23 hope the sponsor would yield for some questions.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
25 sponsor yield?
6537
1 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR WALCZYK: So on the changes
5 that you're proposing to the public campaign
6 financing program, I note the current program
7 allows for large-dollar donors to have their --
8 the first $250 of someone's donation is matched
9 by taxpayer money. Is that correct?
10 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
11 Mr. President, that is incorrect.
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
13 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
14 yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR WALCZYK: What is the
21 maximum amount under the current program that
22 someone could donate and have it matched by
23 taxpayer funding for campaigns?
24 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
25 Mr. President, the current law is $250 will be
6538
1 matched. That is the max.
2 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
3 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
4 yield.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
6 sponsor yield?
7 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes. Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR WALCZYK: And this bill is
11 proposing a change to the maximum amount that
12 someone could donate and have that donation still
13 match in portion, is that correct?
14 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
15 Mr. President, it doesn't change the max that
16 will be matched. So 250 remains the maximum that
17 can be publicly matched.
18 What it does change is that it
19 allows for a contribution that is above $250 to
20 have the first 250 matched, as opposed to the
21 current law, that can only match if that donation
22 was capped at 250.
23 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
24 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
25 yield.
6539
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Does the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR WALCZYK: Why in the -- I
7 wonder if -- why do we have a goal of $250
8 maximum for a taxpayer match to funding political
9 campaigns in the State of New York?
10 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
11 Mr. President, one of the most successful public
12 financing administrations in the country is in
13 New York City, and our matching on the $250 is
14 nearly identical to that system.
15 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
16 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
17 yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Does the
19 sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR WALCZYK: Why was the
24 number $250 selected rather than, you know, the
25 maximum campaign donation allowing taxpayer
6540
1 funding to match someone who, you know, donated
2 $5,000, for example?
3 What's the principle there in
4 picking $250?
5 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
6 Mr. President, I just want to clarify.
7 Are you asking why we're not giving
8 more matching funds? As opposed to 250 being
9 capped, would you like for us to have $5,000
10 matched? Or -- I just want to make sure I'm
11 clarifying the question.
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: Mr. President, is
13 he asking me to yield?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
15 Walczyk, could you clarify the question.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: I sure would.
17 So currently maximum contributions
18 are $5,000 for a primary and $5,000 for a general
19 election.
20 If there's a change in statute that
21 you're proposing today to the public campaign
22 financing -- on the day after the last day of
23 session, in what may be some of the last hours of
24 our legislative session -- the proposal here is
25 to allow donations that are maxed out -- so those
6541
1 $5,000 donations would not be allowed, any
2 portion, to have a matching donation.
3 But this changes that that so that
4 their first $250 of that $5,000 donation can be
5 matched by taxpayer funding. Is that correct?
6 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
7 Mr. President that is correct.
8 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
9 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
10 yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: So just so that I
17 understand that I'm doing the math right, if
18 someone were to donate -- and we're talking about
19 somebody pretty wealthy, obviously, who wants to
20 have their influence seen in political campaigns.
21 If they were to donate $5,000 in a primary
22 election and $5,000 in the general election, they
23 would see matches from taxpayer money which would
24 total $2,300 in matching funds from the taxpayers
25 of the State of New York, in addition to the
6542
1 $10,000 that they've already donated.
2 Am I understanding that math
3 correctly?
4 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
5 Mr. President, that is correct.
6 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
7 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
8 yield.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Does the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR WALCZYK: Why?
15 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
16 Mr. President, I'm assuming that you're asking
17 why we're making the change from the current law?
18 And the goal here, outside of
19 matching exactly what happens in the New York
20 City public financing context, we think it's
21 important that as many people who want to
22 participate in this public matching system should
23 have the opportunity to do so.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
25 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to
6543
1 yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
3 sponsor yield?
4 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR WALCZYK: I don't mean to
8 harp on it, but I'm asking sort of about the
9 principle here.
10 While I disagree with the whole
11 program -- and even brought an amendment on the
12 floor today to repeal the entire program, because
13 I think it's offensive that we use taxpayer money
14 to fund political campaigns, and I'd call it
15 political welfare for politicians -- even so, I
16 think there was a principle when the initial law
17 passed that said we're only going to accept for
18 this matching program a donation up to $250
19 matching. If it's large-dollar donations, those
20 aren't eligible for matching funds.
21 And I think that the principle at
22 the time, and the way that the current law
23 states, was so that New Yorkers who are donating
24 smaller amounts, sort of a more grassroots effort
25 within campaigns, the smaller donors, those $250
6544
1 and less, they would have their voice amplified
2 by taxpayer money, while larger-dollar donors,
3 the ones that are maxing out at $5,000, $10,000
4 in political campaign donations, aren't matched
5 by taxpayer money.
6 So I'm wondering, why are you
7 changing that so that the large-dollar donors are
8 also matched by taxpayer money?
9 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
10 Mr. President, I think my colleague makes an
11 excellent case for the public matching system.
12 The ability for a larger donation to
13 be matched at the 250, it bears repeating again,
14 the New York City system is just the same. And
15 what we have seen in the New York City system is
16 an encouragement of small donor participation.
17 I would also note that a candidate
18 is not precluded from continuing to go after
19 those grassroots donations. And in fact that's
20 what we see in public financing elsewhere.
21 So while the larger donation will be
22 matched to an extent, it still encourages the
23 small donors to give whatever they can to have
24 their voice amplified in this process.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
6545
1 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to
2 yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
4 sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR WALCZYK: I'm still looking
9 for the reason that we've added -- and I know
10 you've stated exactly what the change is and
11 stated it straightforward. I appreciate that,
12 because it means that I'm clear on what the
13 change is here.
14 But I'm still looking for the reason
15 why someone who is donating $5,000, $10,000 in an
16 election cycle did not get matched by taxpayer
17 money in the past. Under the changes that you're
18 proposing today, their donation will get matched
19 by taxpayer money. I just want to know why that
20 change is being made. What's the principle
21 behind it?
22 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
23 Mr. President. I think, as with a lot of the
24 things that we do in this house, it is an
25 iterative process where we have conversations
6546
1 amongst the conference and other stakeholders to
2 determine, particularly when we are starting a
3 program of this magnitude, that we're doing so in
4 a way that the administration is smooth. And in
5 looking at some of the other public financing
6 administrations, like the one we have in the
7 city, we felt that this was an appropriate change
8 at this time.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
10 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
11 yield.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Does the
13 sponsor yield?
14 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR WALCZYK: Of those
18 larger-dollar donors that will now be eligible
19 for a taxpayer match for political campaigns, do
20 larger-dollar donors generally support incumbent
21 candidates or insurgent or new candidates?
22 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
23 Mr. President, I'm not sure I know how to answer
24 that question.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: I know how to
6547
1 answer that question, but maybe I will on the
2 bill. Mr. President, would the --
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
4 Walczyk on the bill.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: No,
6 Mr. President, I'd actually ask the sponsor to
7 continue to yield if he would.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Okay.
9 Well, does the sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: So the New York
14 Times ran an article a couple of days ago stating
15 the following: "Changes proposed by lawmakers
16 would protect incumbents and discourage
17 challengers -- the opposite of the program's
18 goal. Suddenly a program that would have
19 encouraged small donations would no longer do
20 anything of the sort; in fact, it would
21 supplement donations as large as $18,000 with
22 matching funds from taxpayers, a complete
23 turnabout from the original intent of the system
24 promised to voters by reformers elected in 2018,
25 and a perversion of the promise of most other
6548
1 public financing programs," including the one
2 that you referenced in New York City.
3 How would you respond to the way
4 that the New York Times described this proposed
5 change?
6 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
7 Mr. President, I would not.
8 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
9 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
10 yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Does the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: The New York
17 Times editorial board's article says if a company
18 executive seeking a state contract makes a
19 $10,000 contribution to a state senator, that
20 contribution would still receive a $2,300 public
21 taxpayer money match. Matching a contribution of
22 that size is a waste of public money and provides
23 little incentive to pursue small donors.
24 Would you agree that this is kind of
25 counter to the original intent of that threshold
6549
1 in the public campaign financing program?
2 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
3 Mr. President. On the particular passage cited
4 by my colleague on the other side, it made note
5 of someone seeking contracts from the state and
6 whether or not that contribution, because of its
7 size, would influence that process.
8 And I draw my colleague's attention
9 to a bill passed in this house just yesterday
10 that would ban contributions of any size from an
11 individual seeking state contracts. And this is
12 something that we have sponsored in this house,
13 we've had many bipartisan I think agreements on
14 that notion. And that's an issue that I'm hoping
15 that we can advance in the entire Legislature as
16 we go forward.
17 So I am very strenuously against
18 campaign contributions having any influence over
19 the governing process, but I won't opine on what
20 the editorial board said otherwise.
21 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
22 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
23 yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
25 sponsor yield?
6550
1 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR WALCZYK: Does this bill
5 have movement in the other house? Do you have a
6 cosponsor in the other house? Do we think that
7 it will go this session?
8 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
9 Mr. President. The -- my -- I'm the chair of the
10 Senate Elections Committee. The chair of the
11 Elections Committee in the other house is
12 carrying this bill.
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
14 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
15 yield.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
17 sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
20 sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR WALCZYK: The chair of the
22 Elections Committee in the other house is
23 Assemblywoman Walker, is that correct?
24 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
25 Mr. President, yes.
6551
1 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
2 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
3 yield.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
5 sponsor yield?
6 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: Would
10 Assemblywoman Walker be eligible for matching
11 donations if she registers for the public
12 campaign financing program?
13 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
14 Mr. President, if she meets the criteria outlayed
15 in the bill, if it is signed into law, she would
16 be eligible.
17 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
18 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
19 yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: I would draw your
6552
1 attention to Bill Section 2, page 3, lines 11
2 through 14, which amends 14-203(1)(g) and adds a
3 (g-1) to that paragraph, to the eligibility
4 requirements, to state that you are ineligible if
5 you owe any payments, repayments or civil
6 penalties from previous participation in the
7 public campaign financing program, or if you owe
8 similar funds from participating in any local
9 public campaign financing program within the
10 previous 10 years.
11 As recently as two days ago, it was
12 reported that the current chairwoman of the
13 Elections Committee in the Assembly, and the
14 sponsor of the Assembly bill that you stated, had
15 outstanding fines owed to the New York City
16 Campaign Financing Board back from her 2019 run
17 for public advocate.
18 So with that provision in this bill,
19 would the chair of the Elections Committee and
20 the sponsor of this bill in the other house be
21 eligible for any taxpayer match?
22 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
23 Mr. President. What I -- my previous answer
24 remains that if she meets the criteria, she would
25 be eligible. As it currently stands, that might
6553
1 not be the case. But should she pay back, she
2 would be eligible.
3 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
4 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
5 yield.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Does the
7 sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR WALCZYK: I've often heard
12 rhetoric about taking the big money out of
13 politics and allowing more grassroots voices,
14 that it's part of the core of our representative
15 democracy that voters and small-dollar donors
16 don't get rolled by big money and big
17 corporations and larger campaign donors.
18 How does the increase of the amount
19 that someone can donate and still have public
20 taxpayer money match that donation, how does that
21 line up with some of that rhetoric that I've
22 heard?
23 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
24 Mr. President. I would, one, distinguish the
25 corporate rhetoric that my colleague referenced
6554
1 with a program that does not allow any matching
2 for any corporation. In fact, on the first page
3 it says that it has to be an actual person. So
4 this is about individual contributions.
5 And then I'd secondarily note that,
6 again, this is the program that the City of
7 New York has been using to -- I think what
8 everyone who examines that system would say a
9 successful system -- they have been using that to
10 effect, to maximize the voices of small donors.
11 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
12 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
13 yield.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
15 sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR WALCZYK: Under the current
20 program, can someone -- if they register under
21 the current program but they haven't yet
22 qualified to be on a ballot, can they receive
23 taxpayer match under the current program?
24 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
25 Mr. President, that is not our reading of the
6555
1 current law. Because of the payment schedules,
2 they would not receive it before there's a
3 determination of their candidacy on the ballot.
4 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
5 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
6 yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
8 sponsor yield?
9 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: So in other
13 words, someone would have to register for the
14 program, go fully in on the program, also qualify
15 on the ballot -- they'd have to do all of those
16 things before the schedule hits and they receive
17 any taxpayer matches for any of the donations
18 that they'd received. Am I understanding that
19 correctly?
20 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
21 Mr. President, yes. But it's not a requirement
22 in the current statutes. It's just a function of
23 the payment schedule.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
25 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
6556
1 yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Does the
3 sponsor yield?
4 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR WALCZYK: So Bill
8 Section 5, page 5, lines 53 through 56, and on
9 page 6, lines 1 through 14, amends 14-205,
10 paragraph 3, to change the schedule that you were
11 just talking about, to change both beginning
12 dates for when public funds can be paid as well
13 as the number of payment dates.
14 Previously there had been a minimum
15 of three payments made in the 30 days prior to an
16 election. This would have made the first payment
17 for the 2024 primary in May of 2024; that's what
18 I've understood and been briefed on.
19 The amendments in this bill state
20 that the Public Campaign Financing Board shall
21 schedule payments beginning as early as
22 December 15, 2023. Is that accurate?
23 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
24 Mr. President, yes.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
6557
1 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
2 yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
4 sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR WALCZYK: Doesn't this
9 create a conflict with current statute?
10 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
11 Mr. President, not one that I can readily
12 identify.
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
14 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
15 yield.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
17 sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
20 sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR WALCZYK: So it's your
22 understanding that in current statute you don't
23 have to be a qualified candidate, petition and
24 get on a ballot, to actually receive taxpayer
25 matching funds for your political campaign?
6558
1 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
2 Mr. President. Just anticipating where I believe
3 my colleague is going, if you are disqualified --
4 i.e., you don't make the ballot -- you have to
5 pay back every single penny.
6 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
7 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
8 yield.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR WALCZYK: So my
15 understanding is that under this bill we're
16 changing the schedule so that someone could
17 actually register for the public campaign
18 financing program, a program that allows them to
19 go out and solicit donors for a campaign, when
20 they're not yet a legitimate candidate, they
21 haven't qualified for the ballot, receive those
22 donations, and then as early as December 15th,
23 2023, for a following-year election that is all
24 the way one year later in November, they can
25 receive those funds -- and not only that, will
6559
1 receive taxpayer matching dollars.
2 And then, if I'm understanding your
3 answer correctly, does that mean the only
4 recourse that the taxpayers have, after they've
5 paid this candidate who fails to qualify, is that
6 they'll have to then chase them down for the
7 money if they haven't qualified for the ballot?
8 Am I understanding that correctly?
9 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
10 Mr. President, I wouldn't characterize it as
11 chasing down. It's the same enforcement that we
12 have throughout our Election Law -- in fact, one
13 that you just referenced about a member of the
14 other house.
15 I think it's important to note here
16 that the change there on the payment schedule is
17 to encourage participation in the program and to
18 also, for individuals who don't have this
19 largesse that you just decried, the influence in
20 our politics, that they would have the stability
21 of knowing that this is coming, should they make
22 the ballot and should they be a bona fide
23 candidate.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
25 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
6560
1 yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Does the
3 sponsor yield?
4 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR WALCZYK: You referenced
8 the enforcement mechanism. What would the
9 enforcement mechanism be for going after a
10 candidate that received taxpayer matching funds
11 but then failed to qualify for the ballot?
12 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
13 Mr. President. Partially, it would be the
14 enforcement regime already set up in our
15 State Board of Elections. But we also have a
16 Public Campaign Finance Board that has been given
17 enforcement powers.
18 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
19 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
20 yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 sponsor yields.
6561
1 SENATOR WALCZYK: I am aware that
2 we have actually, in this year's budget,
3 significantly increased the budget for the
4 Public Campaign Financing Board -- I think you
5 and I actually may have had a discussion about it
6 during the budget process, or it might have been
7 the Finance chair -- in addition to also putting
8 taxpayer money into the pot in support of
9 taxpayer money for campaigns.
10 I don't recall, though -- I don't
11 recall any of that money going specifically to
12 enforcement. My understanding of the
13 Public Campaign Financing Board is that it's
14 largely staff and advisors that can assist
15 candidates with the program, whether they be
16 incumbents or new candidates coming into the
17 program.
18 I don't remember anyone tasked with
19 an enforcement mechanism, and that's what I'm
20 really curious about, especially since you
21 brought it up.
22 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
23 Mr. President. I was just handed by staff -- to
24 get the exact number, we specifically lined out
25 in this year's budget, for the election
6562
1 enforcement program, $5.4 million.
2 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
3 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to
4 yield.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
6 sponsor yield?
7 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR WALCZYK: Is that -- and
11 not to, you know, bring up the other chair of the
12 Elections Committee, who can't qualify for this
13 program right now because she hasn't paid past
14 fines back to two thousand --
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
16 Walczyk. Senator Walczyk. I'd ask could you
17 keep your questions germane to the nature of the
18 bill. Thank you.
19 SENATOR WALCZYK: I would,
20 Mr. President. And it was actually my colleague
21 in his response that evoked the Elections chair
22 in the other house. I thought it was a pretty
23 concise example of the problem that I'd like to
24 illustrate and the question that I'd like to ask.
25 On the enforcement mechanism, is it
6563
1 similar to the enforcement mechanism for New York
2 City that's failed to receive those fines since
3 2019 from the Elections chair in the other house?
4 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
5 Mr. President. And, you know, I think it's
6 unfortunate that we are abusing another colleague
7 when we're talking about this bill.
8 But I will also note that we
9 introduced a bill earlier this year to increase
10 the enforcement power of our elections counsel.
11 And we had a spirited discussion in our
12 Elections Committee about how you thought that
13 that was not appropriate and that our elections
14 counsel should not be able to go after
15 individuals who break the Election Law.
16 And so I would hope, again, that we
17 could bring our focus back to this bill and the
18 questions that I think for the most part that
19 you've asked have been germane to what we're
20 talking about.
21 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
22 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to
23 yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
25 sponsor yield?
6564
1 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR WALCZYK: And I will -- I
5 appreciate that, and I appreciate the course
6 direction from the president as well.
7 I think it is important not to
8 invoke specific members, but certainly to stay on
9 the course with the bill here. Which I would
10 have done if this bill came through the committee
11 that you chair, which is Elections. Instead,
12 we're finding -- instead of a discussion at a
13 table about the particulars in this bill, we're
14 finding ourselves with a bill that was pushed
15 through Rules directly onto the chamber floor.
16 And so I do have a question that I
17 would have asked in committee about Section 12 of
18 this bill. If you could look at Section 12, it
19 appears to repeal the New York State Campaign
20 Finance Fund and related check-off. There are
21 two problems that I see with this.
22 One, the section cited for the bill,
23 which is Section 11 of Part ZZZ of Chapter 58 of
24 the Laws of 2020 amending the Election Law, is
25 the original severability provision of that part,
6565
1 which is not related to the fund or the
2 check-off. Could you address that? Am I reading
3 this wrong?
4 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
5 Mr. President. I don't know if you're reading it
6 wrong. Maybe we're just reading it differently.
7 But this actually repeals the
8 nonseverability clause that's in the current law
9 and puts in a severability clause.
10 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
11 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to
12 yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Would the
14 sponsor yield?
15 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 Senator Walczyk, I just want to
19 remind you that you're close to the 30-minute
20 mark.
21 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thanks for the
22 reminder, Mr. President.
23 So there is not a -- then I'm
24 understanding there is not a repeal of that
25 check-off in this legislation?
6566
1 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
2 Mr. President, that's correct.
3 SENATOR WALCZYK: Okay. Thank you.
4 Why are we passing this bill --
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Are you
6 asking the sponsor to yield?
7 SENATOR WALCZYK: Oh, through you,
8 Mr. President, would the sponsor yield.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR WALCZYK: So the public
15 campaign financing program has been in place for
16 four years. Why are we bringing -- and, you
17 know, the staff has been working and we've even
18 added funds to the budget this year to hire
19 additional staff. And they've figured out the
20 program as it is now. Some members of the
21 Legislature have even registered with the
22 Public Campaign Financing Board.
23 Why is this change being made today?
24 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
25 Mr. President. While the program has been in its
6567
1 inception, while we have invested resources in
2 staffing and organization, there has not been any
3 disbursements yet. As you know, this starts
4 really next year.
5 So it's important for us, before
6 that program starts, to make what we believe to
7 be appropriate changes in order for the program
8 to be successful.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
10 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
11 yield.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
13 sponsor yield?
14 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR WALCZYK: Do you think
18 we'll do some analysis about whether the changes
19 to this program will be more helpful for
20 incumbents than they are for challengers?
21 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
22 Mr. President, I'm not sure we'd be doing that
23 exact analysis. But I think it's an important
24 point that you make that we have to see how the
25 program actually plays out. I think we have a
6568
1 responsibility as a legislature to see what are
2 the good things in the program and what are the
3 things that might need some work, and we will
4 legislate accordingly.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
6 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
7 yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: Is there also a
14 change in the number of contributors that would
15 allow someone to qualify -- contributors meaning
16 campaign donors -- allowing them to qualify for
17 the matching program from taxpayer money at all?
18 Was there an increase in the threshold there?
19 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
20 Mr. President, yes.
21 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
22 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
23 yield?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
25 sponsor yield?
6569
1 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR WALCZYK: What was the
5 change of increase in the threshold? How many
6 additional donors are we expecting that any
7 candidate should get?
8 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
9 Mr. President. So the qualification thresholds,
10 I'll just break it out between the current law
11 and what this bill proposes.
12 So for in-district contributions for
13 the Senate, the current law says that 150, that's
14 the threshold that you need. This bill would
15 make that threshold 350. And for the Assembly,
16 the current law says that it is 75; this bill
17 proposes it would be 145.
18 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
19 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
20 yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 sponsor yields.
6570
1 SENATOR WALCZYK: For sitting
2 members of the Legislature, either in the
3 Assembly or in the Senate, wouldn't it be easier
4 for them, with their names well known as
5 incumbents, to go out and get that increase of
6 matched contributions?
7 So you're changing from 150
8 matchable contributors to 350. Doesn't that sort
9 of favor the incumbents that are already well
10 known and used to raising money?
11 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
12 Mr. President, we represent approximately, most
13 of us, 300,000 people. Three hundred fifty
14 individual contributors, it's less than
15 1 percent. I don't view that as an incumbent
16 advantage. I view that as proportionate to the
17 Senate district size.
18 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
19 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
20 yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 sponsor yields.
6571
1 SENATOR WALCZYK: I may disagree,
2 but I'm encouraged to hear you say that.
3 Why was the number of campaign
4 donors increased from 150 to 350 in order to
5 qualify for taxpayer money to match your campaign
6 if you register for this program?
7 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
8 Mr. President, I think there were concerns that
9 if we are giving out taxpayer dollars, something
10 that I think you have stated on the record you
11 are against in its entirety, that there should be
12 a demonstrated support within the community.
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
14 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to
15 yield.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
17 sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
20 sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR WALCZYK: That change from
22 150 matchable contributors to 350 matchable
23 contributors, where does that number come from?
24 We didn't have a committee meeting about this
25 bill. Where does that get populated out of?
6572
1 Where does that idea come from?
2 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
3 Mr. President, I would again point to the
4 comments I made about the populations of our
5 districts.
6 We, you know, through our
7 conversations, have found that that 350 number
8 represents still a very, very small portion of
9 the district and still allows for individuals who
10 don't have any notoriety or who don't have an
11 office to participate in the program.
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
13 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
14 yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR WALCZYK: Bill Section 7,
21 page 7, lines 13 to 21, amends 14-207 to add a
22 new subparagraph (3-a), which requires that the
23 Public Campaign Financing Board develop and
24 administer training to allow individuals to
25 become certified compliance officers under the
6573
1 program.
2 I would presume that these certified
3 compliance officers would be available to be
4 hired by campaigns to assist them with
5 compliance. But what does this mean? What's the
6 purpose of that addition?
7 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
8 Mr. President. Part of the discussion we're
9 having now is protecting the public fisc. If
10 this is something that we are going to be giving
11 out, we want to ensure that people are complying,
12 that they're doing this the right way.
13 Some of the concerns that we've
14 heard is that in the current program in New York
15 City, for individuals not familiar with the
16 system, it is easy to run afoul of the
17 regulations. And we don't want that happening in
18 this program. We want individuals complying,
19 only getting public matching funds if they have
20 met the appropriate criteria. And this is meant
21 to encourage individuals to comply with the law.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
23 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
24 yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
6574
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 Senator yields.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: Would political
6 consultants that are paid to work on campaigns,
7 fundraise for campaigns and develop campaign
8 strategy, essentially run campaigns, would they
9 be eligible to become certified compliance
10 officers under the program?
11 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
12 Mr. President, yes.
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
14 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
15 yield.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
17 sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
20 sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR WALCZYK: Why would we want
22 to put the compliance officers embedded as paid
23 campaign hands rather than trust the staff that
24 was funded in this last year's budget -- we
25 talked about a little bit earlier -- at the
6575
1 Public Campaign Financing Board to perform that
2 function?
3 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
4 Mr. President, I don't think it's a question of
5 whether or not we trust the PCFB or other
6 enforcement entities.
7 This is a new program, and
8 compliance is important. And we think the more
9 people that know how to comply, the better.
10 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
11 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
12 yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
14 sponsor yield?
15 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR WALCZYK: Is there a
19 requirement that the certified compliance
20 officers have to be attorneys with Election Law
21 experience?
22 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
23 Mr. President, no.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
25 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
6576
1 yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
3 sponsor yield?
4 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: the
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR WALCZYK: The certified
8 compliance officers, under this program, would
9 they have to work at State Board of Elections or
10 work for the Public Campaign Financing Board as
11 paid staff, as we funded in this last year's
12 budget?
13 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
14 Mr. President, no. But they would be trained by
15 the agency.
16 And I note that other places in our
17 election system -- for instance, a treasurer,
18 that I'm sure you have and all of us in this room
19 have. There also aren't requirements
20 professionally on them. What is most important
21 is that they know how to comply and that they
22 assist the candidate in that compliance.
23 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
24 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
25 yield.
6577
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
2 Walczyk, I just want to let you know that this
3 will be your final question. You have elapsed
4 the 30-minute mark by five minutes and change.
5 Will the sponsor yield?
6 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: Why should I vote
10 for this?
11 (Laughter.)
12 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
13 Mr. President. Given the hostile amendment you
14 just offered in which you wanted to repeal this
15 system in its entirety, I take you at your word.
16 I believe that that was a genuine offer.
17 So if you do not believe in public
18 financing, you should vote no.
19 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you,
20 Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
22 you, Senator Walczyk.
23 Are there any other Senators wishing
24 to be heard?
25 Senator Borrello, why do you rise?
6578
1 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
2 will the sponsor yield for a question.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
4 sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you.
9 Through you, Mr. President.
10 Senator Myrie, currently there is a
11 max of $250, you've already established that, for
12 a match. But now with this new legislation we're
13 passing today, someone can donate $5,000, and the
14 first $250 would be matched. What does that make
15 that $5,000 donation to, with the additional
16 taxpayer money that's going to be added on to it?
17 How much will that be now worth?
18 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
19 Mr. President. I went to law school because I
20 was not good at math. But I believe it would
21 add, on top of that 5,000, $2300. And so it
22 would make that a total of 7,000-something-
23 something.
24 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
25 will the sponsor continue to yield.
6579
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Does the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR BORRELLO: That's correct,
7 $7300. I feel like I'm a game show host. Sorry.
8 So now that $5,000 -- now we just
9 lowered the personal donation from $11,800 to
10 5,000 in the hopes that we would reduce the
11 amount of, I don't know, influence or whatever it
12 is. So now that $5,000 donation is going to get
13 supercharged to 7300, courtesy of the taxpayers.
14 So the big donor doesn't have to donate as much,
15 but the candidate gets that much money.
16 So why are we doing that? Why
17 didn't we just say, Okay, lower it to $7300? If
18 we're going to allow someone who's clearly got
19 $5,000, they probably have $7300, to be quite
20 honest.
21 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
22 Mr. President. I'd say that more broadly, we --
23 the hope with this program is that individuals
24 would not feel that they would have to go after a
25 $5,000 donation.
6580
1 If you get a donation of $250, that
2 can net close to $2500. And the goal here, as it
3 was when this was initially enacted into law, is
4 to encourage that type of engagement between
5 candidates and small donors.
6 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
7 will the sponsor continue to yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR BORRELLO: Well, you said
14 we hope that they won't go after the $5,000
15 donation. Well, if we don't want them to, then
16 why would we give them any match at all on a
17 $5,000 donation?
18 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
19 Mr. President. As I've mentioned a number of
20 times, that is the process under the New York
21 City campaign finance regime, and that has
22 encouraged engagement with small donors. We
23 believe it would do the same here.
24 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
25 will the sponsor continue to yield?
6581
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR BORRELLO: So the current
7 New York City campaign match is $5,000 up to --
8 the first 250 for -- up to 5,000, is that
9 correct?
10 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
11 Mr. President, it is the similar concept. The
12 numbers don't quite match because they're smaller
13 legislative districts.
14 But the notion that the first, you
15 know, whether it's 175 or 250, would be matched
16 regardless of the size of donation, that is the
17 same.
18 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
19 will the sponsor continue to yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR BORRELLO: Well, I know
6582
1 that for the longest time we were talking about
2 this. This was modeled after that New York City
3 program. So did it change recently that we have
4 to have a bill that actually requires a message
5 of necessity, if I'm not mistaken, to change it?
6 Was there a sudden change to the New York City
7 program that necessitated this change to our
8 bill?
9 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
10 Mr. President, there was no change in the
11 New York City program.
12 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
13 will the sponsor continue to yield.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
15 sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR BORRELLO: So what was the
20 epiphany that we all of a sudden had to make this
21 change? I mean, nothing's changed, you just
22 said. Now we have a bill in front of us with a
23 message of necessity from the Governor in order
24 for us to make this change. What changed?
25 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
6583
1 Mr. President. Just to clarify, there is no
2 message of necessity on this bill from the
3 Governor.
4 But more broadly, just like many of
5 the other provisions in this bill, including the
6 severability clause that was not included -- that
7 is not included in this current law, was the
8 result of many discussions and one that we felt
9 appropriate to make as we are on the precipice of
10 this program becoming a reality.
11 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
12 will the sponsor continue to yield?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
14 sponsor yield?
15 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR BORRELLO: Okay, so what
19 we've established is there's been no change to
20 the program but we have to make this we'll call
21 it last-minute change, even without a message of
22 necessity, for a program that was written
23 probably more than a year ago, I would guess.
24 So with that being said, this is
25 going to change the dollar amount. Do we have
6584
1 any idea, with this change to this maximum match,
2 what that's going to cost in additional taxpayer
3 dollars to fund this public campaign finance?
4 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
5 Mr. President. One, the total amount that can be
6 spent on the program is capped, so it doesn't
7 affect how much more would be outlayed.
8 But like many of the other things
9 that we do, it would be subject to appropriation
10 and budget conversations.
11 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
12 will the sponsor continue to yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
14 sponsor yield?
15 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR BORRELLO: I just want to
19 be clear. We're not -- I realize that you're
20 still matching the same dollar amount. But
21 you're going to have more matches if you open it
22 up to donations above $250. So isn't that going
23 to, in the end, mean there's going to have to be
24 more outlay of money for those matches? I mean,
25 there has to be.
6585
1 SENATOR MYRIE: I'm sorry.
2 Senator Borrello, do you mind repeating the
3 question?
4 SENATOR BORRELLO: You said that
5 there isn't going to be an impact because we
6 haven't changed the $250 match amount. However,
7 if someone donates $300 before this change,
8 there's no match. With this change, there's now
9 a match, and so on and so forth.
10 So just by the simple math of the
11 fact that all your donations above $250 will now
12 be eligible for the match, doesn't this mean
13 we're going to have to outlay more taxpayer
14 dollars to match those additional donations?
15 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
16 Mr. President, I'm loath to hypothesize about
17 what will happen until we see the funds being
18 disbursed. And that is -- as I was having the
19 conversation with Senator Walczyk, I think it's
20 important that we continue to monitor that and
21 legislate accordingly.
22 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
23 will the sponsor continue to yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
25 sponsor yield?
6586
1 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR BORRELLO: Well, I just
5 think it's really simple. There are going to be
6 more donations eligible with this higher
7 threshold. That's just -- there's just no --
8 it's inevitable.
9 So the question is we've already
10 allocated money in this upcoming budget; that
11 will be for the next cycle, the '23-'24 budget.
12 Do we have any idea how this is going to impact
13 the amount of money the taxpayers are going to
14 have to supply to match these larger donations?
15 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
16 Mr. President. So again, I'd reiterate that we
17 have to see what the level of participation is.
18 But once we hit that $100 million
19 cap, the Comptroller does have the ability to
20 pull from other funds until we appropriate, in
21 the subsequent budget, the amount to match.
22 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
23 will the sponsor continue to yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
25 sponsor yield?
6587
1 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR BORRELLO: So we have a
5 $100 million pot of money. And if we exceed
6 that, the Comptroller -- at his discretion, or is
7 he obligated to supply that extra money?
8 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
9 Mr. President, it's an obligation.
10 SENATOR BORRELLO: It's an
11 obligation, okay.
12 Mr. President, will the sponsor
13 continue to yield.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
15 sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR BORRELLO: So with that
20 amount being obviously higher, we just haven't
21 done an analysis -- I just want to be clear,
22 there's been no analysis done, with this sudden
23 change to the rules, to determine if there's
24 going to be additional expenses.
25 We've -- I guess, has there been any
6588
1 financial analysis done?
2 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
3 Mr. President, it will be subject to
4 appropriation.
5 I get the question that my colleague
6 is offering. But having not made a single
7 disbursement yet, it is hard to answer the
8 question.
9 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
10 will the sponsor continue to yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR BORRELLO: You know, this
17 obviously means a lot of additional money,
18 taxpayer money, that's going to be used to fund
19 these campaigns.
20 Is there any prohibition against
21 using that taxpayer money, that public money, for
22 something like negative ads? Will there be a
23 prohibition against using negative ads with
24 taxpayer dollars?
25 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
6589
1 Mr. President, there is not.
2 But I would note that even if we
3 wanted to do something like that, that gets into
4 I think some tricky First Amendment
5 constitutional issues.
6 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
7 will the sponsor continue to yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR BORRELLO: Well, I would
14 argue that the First Amendment only applies when
15 you're using your own money and not the
16 taxpayers' money.
17 But that being said, so there's no
18 real guardrails as to what this money can be used
19 for, is that correct?
20 SENATOR MYRIE: I'm sorry, could
21 you repeat the question?
22 SENATOR BORRELLO: So there's no
23 guardrails for this -- where this money could be
24 used.
25 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
6590
1 Mr. President, there is actually a robust amount
2 of guardrails. And so we prescribe, I think
3 pretty specifically, some of the things that you
4 can and can't do.
5 And also the PCFB has promulgated
6 and will promulgate more regulations as to
7 campaign expenditures.
8 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
9 will the sponsor continue to yield.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
11 sponsor yield?
12 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR BORRELLO: You've increased
16 the threshold for people to qualify. For the
17 State Senate, it's going to go from $12,000 in
18 contributions to $24,000, from at least 300
19 matchable donors instead of 150.
20 What was the reason for that? Why
21 are we raising that threshold?
22 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
23 Mr. President, I think there were concerns around
24 expending public dollars for candidates who have
25 not demonstrated the appropriate amount of
6591
1 support in the community.
2 The number of contributions and the
3 amount, the threshold, is reflective of that
4 community support, and that is what this is meant
5 to do.
6 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
7 will the sponsor continue to yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR BORRELLO: So how does this
14 compare, at least proportionally, to the New York
15 City program that this was modeled after? Was
16 this change because of some -- in some way
17 matching the New York City program?
18 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
19 Mr. President, it was not. It was meant to
20 reflect the realities of current and future
21 participants in this state program.
22 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
23 will the sponsor continue to yield?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
25 sponsor yield?
6592
1 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR BORRELLO: You know, this
5 is a program that's been talked about for years,
6 is my understanding, and now it's finally come to
7 fruition. And now all of a sudden -- again, last
8 minute -- we are changing and doubling it. What
9 was the change in philosophy?
10 I understand you're saying, you
11 know, that we want -- I guess you used the term
12 "community support." But how did community
13 support change from 150 people to 300 people just
14 over the last couple of weeks?
15 SENATOR BORRELLO: Through you,
16 Mr. President. As I mentioned to my colleague in
17 the previous exchange, this was meant to reflect
18 concerns around demonstrating community support.
19 And this is -- as we've also
20 discussed we will see how the program is
21 effectuated and will legislate accordingly if
22 there are changes needed to be made.
23 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
24 on the bill.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
6593
1 Borrello on the bill.
2 SENATOR BORRELLO: Senator Myrie,
3 thank you for your question-answering today with
4 myself and Senator Walczyk.
5 You know, I think that there are a
6 lot of us that are just opposed to this in
7 general, but we are likely going to have to
8 reluctantly participate in this program because
9 it's going to be there for everyone else, and we
10 face the same problems.
11 But my friends in the Majority have
12 the distinct ability to change the rules of the
13 game, and that's what they've done. Because they
14 came to the realization that this is going to
15 essentially fuel primary opponents, it's going to
16 fuel Republican opponents.
17 So the whole idea of a grassroots
18 effort to get small donors engaged was the
19 original intention way back when, but now we're
20 going to allow someone to donate $5,000 and get
21 another $2300 -- an almost 50 percent match,
22 courtesy of the taxpayers. We're going to
23 increase the amount from 145,000 per election to
24 175,000. And we're going to bar candidates that
25 are just starting out that could actually benefit
6594
1 from this by saying, we're raising that
2 threshold, we're raising the bar.
3 So this has gone from being a
4 grassroots effort to essentially an incumbency
5 welfare program. And that's really what this is.
6 So sadly, this is the direction we
7 are going in. The taxpayers are going to be
8 paying for negative ads, negative mailers. The
9 taxpayers are going to be watching as many, many
10 consultants are going to become very, very rich
11 because they're also allowed to use -- there's a
12 lot of restrictions, as Senator Myrie said, but
13 there's no restriction on campaign consultants
14 getting paid using taxpayer money.
15 Now, think about that, folks. Think
16 about all the negative ads you see over and over
17 and over again. We don't write those. Those are
18 written by really-high-paid campaign consultants.
19 And now taxpayer money is going to go to write
20 those negative ads that you see, those negative
21 mailers, all that stuff that you look at and you
22 throw in the garbage. That's all going to be
23 paid for courtesy of the taxpayers.
24 So I was not in favor of the
25 original. I'm not in favor of this, especially
6595
1 because now it's gone completely away, completely
2 away from the idea of bringing more people in to
3 be able to create more competitive elections, and
4 instead it is going to raise the bar to make it
5 further and further of a reach for people to be
6 able to actually compete in statewide elections.
7 So I'll be voting no.
8 Thank you, Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
10 you, Senator Borrello.
11 Senator Tedisco, why do you rise?
12 SENATOR TEDISCO: Would the Senator
13 yield for a question, possibly two?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Would the
15 sponsor yield for a question, possibly two?
16 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes, for a question
17 or possibly two.
18 SENATOR TEDISCO: Okay, Senator.
19 Senator, I've been listening
20 intently, and I've read up a little bit on what
21 the new proposal is. We raise money
22 continuously. It's like a two-year term, we
23 start and we just keep going after the election
24 if we're going to run again, every two years.
25 And usually it's in dollars or checks. But what
6596
1 I didn't see in there is the process for
2 receiving, spending and reporting what's called
3 in-kind donations.
4 Has that changed at all with the --
5 I don't know if it did in the previous or in this
6 one.
7 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
8 Mr. President. You can't get any public matching
9 funds for in-kind donations.
10 But this also doesn't disturb the
11 current statutes around non-public-matching
12 in-kind donations.
13 SENATOR TEDISCO: Would the Senator
14 yield for another question?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
16 Senator yield?
17 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR TEDISCO: So it's the same
21 process for in-kind donations; that hasn't
22 changed at all. Is the dollar value -- let's say
23 I'm running for office and we do this sometimes,
24 we -- somebody lets us have a space, a rental
25 space, it's an in-kind donation. Another company
6597
1 will give us some furniture, that's an in-kind
2 donation. Maybe we'll have a barbecue, somebody
3 provides the chicken, that's an in-kind donation.
4 Is that a five -- is that up to
5 $5,000 just like a regular cash donation,
6 limited?
7 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
8 Mr. President, yes. That's the short answer.
9 This doesn't disturb anything with in-kind
10 contributions.
11 I would just note very clearly that
12 you cannot have that matched in any capacity.
13 SENATOR TEDISCO: I'm not talking
14 about the matching.
15 Would the gentleman yield again.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
17 sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
20 sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR TEDISCO: So we're going to
22 start running. We'll get certified -- register
23 first, then we get certified. We start raising
24 the funds, it comes into the second year where
25 we're going to have a primary. Somebody gets on
6598
1 the ballot for a primary with an opportunity to
2 ballot. Is that different from having a regular
3 endorsement or anything? A write-in opponent.
4 Do we still get matching -- be able to spend our
5 matching funds against someone like that? Would
6 it be matching funds to spend for that?
7 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
8 Mr. President. If they have met the other
9 criteria as outlined in this bill, the
10 competitive candidate criteria, and they have
11 otherwise met their requirements, they would be
12 eligible for matching funds.
13 SENATOR TEDISCO: And whatever I
14 spend against them would be matching -- could be
15 matching funds.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
17 Tedisco, do you want the --
18 SENATOR TEDISCO: Excuse me. Will
19 the gentleman yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
21 Myrie, do you yield?
22 SENATOR MYRIE: I do yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: And if
24 you could repeat the question, Senator Tedisco,
25 so we can clarify.
6599
1 SENATOR MYRIE: If he could just
2 clarify, because I'm not sure I understand.
3 SENATOR TEDISCO: So as I spend my
4 dollars -- there's legacy money and there's
5 matching funds money. I can spend the matching
6 funds money against that opponent in a primary.
7 Would the gentleman yield for another --
8 SENATOR MYRIE: {Inaudible.}
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
12 SENATOR TEDISCO: Now, once I spend
13 all this legacy money, the money I've had before,
14 that's gone. Two years goes by, I raise quite a
15 bit of money. Have no opponent for a primary,
16 have no opponent for a general election. All of
17 my constituents -- let's say I've raised a half a
18 million dollars -- have donated to me, expecting
19 me to spend their money for me to win an election
20 against a candidate running against me. And I've
21 got a half a million dollars and nobody ran
22 against me.
23 I couldn't spend any of that money
24 in that campaign because I had no opponent?
25 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
6600
1 Mr. President. In that hypothetical, I'm not
2 sure you would qualify for matching funds. That,
3 to me, appears to just be private donations.
4 SENATOR TEDISCO: Okay. Would the
5 gentleman yield.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
7 sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes. Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR TEDISCO: So I've got no
12 matching funds now, I've got a half a million
13 dollars. Can I take that off into the next year
14 for legacy? What do I do with that half a
15 million dollars I've raised that I can't use
16 anymore?
17 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
18 Mr. President, yes.
19 SENATOR TEDISCO: I can.
20 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
21 SENATOR TEDISCO: So I can build
22 legacy money if I have -- oh, excuse me. Would
23 the gentleman yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
25 sponsor yield?
6601
1 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR TEDISCO: I can build
5 legacy money if I just happen to have no opponent
6 whatever.
7 SENATOR MYRIE: Well, part of --
8 through you, Mr. President, you could do that
9 now.
10 SENATOR TEDISCO: Right.
11 SENATOR MYRIE: But part of the --
12 one of the guiding principles of this public
13 financing is that we're not spending public
14 dollars on noncompetitive races. And it's why we
15 are pretty prescriptive in defining what
16 competition is, because you are spending public
17 dollars.
18 SENATOR TEDISCO: Would the
19 gentleman yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR TEDISCO: I just want to
6602
1 clarify this. So I have been raising money under
2 the guise that I'm going to have an opponent.
3 I'll never get matching money until I really have
4 an opponent?
5 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
6 Mr. President, that's correct.
7 SENATOR TEDISCO: And when does --
8 when does that take --
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR TEDISCO: Oh, excuse me --
12 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes, I yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR TEDISCO: -- would the
16 gentleman yield.
17 SENATOR MYRIE: I yield.
18 SENATOR TEDISCO: When does that
19 take place that I really have an opponent?
20 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
21 Mr. President. We have a -- I'm not going to
22 read through all of the criteria, but it is in
23 the bill where it tells us what a competitive
24 race is.
25 After those requirements are met,
6603
1 you would have to certify to the PCFB and then
2 you would get a disbursement of matching funds.
3 SENATOR TEDISCO: Would the
4 gentleman yield for another question.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
6 sponsor yield?
7 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR TEDISCO: Okay. I do have
11 an opponent now. I've raised a half a million
12 dollars. Nobody ever heard of him or her, nobody
13 knows him or her. I spent 500 bucks on the
14 campaign. Now I have all that matching funds,
15 it's probably a million dollars minus $500.
16 What happens with that money?
17 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
18 Mr. President -- and I direct my colleague's
19 attention to page 6 of the bill, where we outline
20 what defines a competitive race.
21 You mentioned this is someone that
22 no one has ever heard of, has no endorsements.
23 If -- if it was just that and not any of the
24 other criteria, that sounds like it would not be
25 a competitive race and that you would not be
6604
1 eligible for public matching funds.
2 SENATOR TEDISCO: Would the
3 gentleman yield.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
5 sponsor yield?
6 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR TEDISCO: On page 6, you
10 said that was?
11 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes. Page 6, lines
12 24 through 53.
13 SENATOR TEDISCO: And let's say he
14 or she fits that contingency on page 6, has the
15 endorsements, very high profile. And when the
16 campaign is over, I still have half a million
17 dollars left. What do I do with that money?
18 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
19 Mr. President, I -- just to clarify, that's half
20 a million in what, matching funds?
21 SENATOR TEDISCO: I had a viable --
22 SENATOR MYRIE: Well, you wouldn't
23 have half a million in matching funds because
24 that's way over the maximum --
25 SENATOR TEDISCO: All right,
6605
1 250,000.
2 SENATOR MYRIE: But let's say you
3 had the maximum, and you didn't spend any of it.
4 That's what you're asking, what happens to that?
5 SENATOR TEDISCO: Can I answer?
6 Because he's asking me a question.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
8 Tedisco, you may clarify.
9 But going forward, if we can direct
10 the questions and comments through the chair, it
11 makes it much easier. Thank you.
12 SENATOR TEDISCO: Okay. So let's
13 say I had $350,000, I could raise that much.
14 Viable candidate. I only spent $50,000. I got
15 $300,000 in matching funds left. What happens?
16 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
17 Mr. President, you'd have to give that back.
18 SENATOR TEDISCO: Okay.
19 On the bill.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
21 Tedisco on the bill.
22 SENATOR TEDISCO: So Mr. President
23 and my colleagues, you know, we go to our
24 constituents and we ask them for money for us,
25 because they believe in us. They come to our
6606
1 campaign events, they send money in the mail,
2 they go out and they ring doorbells, they get
3 petitions for us, they support us.
4 We raise this money from them, and
5 then at the end, if we win an election like I
6 just discussed with the Senator and we have all
7 of their money left over, do you really think
8 they want it to go -- I didn't ask this question,
9 but I'm not sure exactly where it goes. Probably
10 back into the fund for matching funds, to fund
11 other people which they don't believe in, which
12 is not from their district, which they did not
13 donate to.
14 Now, you know, what I would think we
15 would do with that is let us at least send that
16 back to our constituents in some way and have
17 them decide if they want to, in the next
18 election, donate to us once again.
19 But here we are, we're taking
20 taxpayers' money to begin with, to spend for
21 other candidates who they don't believe with.
22 Then when we raise the money personally from them
23 and they know they only want it to go to us
24 because they're only donating to us, at the end,
25 whatever we have left -- their money, money that
6607
1 they send to you and I and all of us, they
2 believe in us, we're sending back into that pool
3 to go to other candidates in other places for
4 people that they don't believe and don't know,
5 maybe would never vote for.
6 It's a bad concept. But as some of
7 my colleagues said, we'll probably have to be
8 involved with it because our opponents are
9 probably going to be involved with it. But it
10 was bad to begin with, it's not the best right
11 now, but we have to play the hand we've gotten,
12 and so do our constituents from upstate New York.
13 But it seems every time something happens in
14 New York City and is utilized in New York City,
15 unfortunately it's brought up to upstate New York
16 and our constituents have to deal with it.
17 Mr. President, I thank you for the
18 time, and I thank the Senator for answering some
19 of those questions.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
21 you, Senator Tedisco.
22 Are there any other Senators wishing
23 to be heard?
24 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
25 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
6608
1 Read the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 13. This
3 act shall take effect on the 90th day after it
4 shall have become a law.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
9 Krueger to explain her vote.
10 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you,
11 Mr. President. I was very interested in the
12 entire debate.
13 And one response to some of my
14 colleagues was since you've already voted against
15 supporting public financing at all, it's not
16 surprising you would vote against this bill.
17 So for the record, I do support
18 public financing, but I have too many problems
19 with this bill. I think we should allow the
20 program we put in place to be tried out through a
21 series of legislative elections, and if we need
22 to fix it, fix it at a later date.
23 I vote no.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
25 Krueger to be recorded in the negative.
6609
1 Senator May to explain her vote.
2 SENATOR MAY: Thank you,
3 Madam President.
4 I appreciate the efforts of
5 Senator Myrie, of our Majority Leader, and of my
6 colleagues to fix some potential glitches in the
7 existing public campaign financing program.
8 But I cannot support this bill,
9 because I believe it betrays the original intent
10 of New York's path-breaking campaign finance law.
11 Over the last few months I've had
12 many conversations with constituents in the 48th
13 District, explaining to them that their small
14 donations from $5 to $250 will end up
15 contributing substantially more to a legislative
16 campaign. It's been moving to see people who
17 never thought they had the means to make a
18 difference in a state-level campaign to realize
19 that our state wanted to honor their
20 contributions in this way, and honor them above
21 the contributions of those who might have the
22 ability to give far more.
23 With this change in how matching
24 funds are treated, I can no longer tell my
25 constituents, my lower-income constituents, in
6610
1 good conscience that we are lifting their voices
2 up in that way.
3 If we wonder why people of limited
4 means tend not to turn out to vote, maybe it's
5 because we persist in sending them the message
6 that when push comes to shove, our campaign
7 system will always make sure that those with the
8 deepest pockets have the loudest voices.
9 I regretfully vote nay.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
11 May to be recorded in the negative.
12 Senator Rivera to explain his vote.
13 SENATOR RIVERA: Thank you,
14 Madam President.
15 I will be voting aye on this piece
16 of legislation, but not -- not happily.
17 So I've been in the Legislature for
18 13 years, and during that time I certainly before
19 have talked about how public financing -- that we
20 need to get a system right. I believe in public
21 financing. And I believe that we need to move
22 towards a system in which we excise money from
23 politics.
24 I think that this program has some
25 imperfections. Some things that we're changing
6611
1 with this particular piece of legislation I think
2 are not necessarily the way that we need to go.
3 But I'm going to trust the process. And I'm
4 going to hope that some of the changes that we've
5 made today make people participate. If there's
6 things that we need to do in the future, as the
7 chair of the Elections Committee said, we might
8 need to tweak some more to make sure that we get
9 it right, I hope that we come back and do that.
10 For the moment, reluctantly, I will
11 be voting in the affirmative.
12 Thank you, Madam President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
14 Rivera to be recorded in the affirmative.
15 Announce the results.
16 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
17 Calendar 1834, those Senators voting in the
18 negative are Senators Ashby, Borrello, Brisport,
19 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Comrie, Gallivan,
20 Gonzalez, Gounardes, Griffo, Helming,
21 Hoylman-Sigal, Krueger, Lanza, Liu, Mannion,
22 Martins, Mattera, May, Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara,
23 Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, Rolison, Stec, Tedisco,
24 Walczyk, Webb, Weber and Weik.
25 Ayes, 32. Nays, 31.
6612
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
2 is passed.
3 Senator Gianaris.
4 SENATOR GIANARIS: Madam President,
5 I believe there's a report of the
6 Judiciary Committee at the desk. Can we take
7 that up, please.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
9 Secretary will read.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator
11 Hoylman-Sigal, from the Committee on Judiciary,
12 reports the following nominations --
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Excuse
14 me. May we have some order in the chamber,
15 please. Senator Borrello.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator
17 Hoylman-Sigal, from the Committee on Judiciary,
18 reports the following nominations:
19 As interim judges of the Supreme
20 Court:
21 Honorable Maureen Liccione;
22 Honorable James McCarty;
23 Honorable Joanne Quinones.
24 As a judge of the Monroe County
25 Family Court:
6613
1 Maria Cubillos Reed.
2 As judges of the Court of Claims:
3 Honorable Ruth Shillingford;
4 Honorable Scott Odorisi;
5 Kim Parker;
6 Raymond Fernandez;
7 Aletha Fields;
8 Brian Haak;
9 David Fried;
10 Nicole McGregor Mundy;
11 Mario Giacobbe;
12 Ellen Tobin;
13 Seth Marnin;
14 Honorable Maureen Heitner;
15 Honorable Timothy Lewis;
16 Honorable Anar Patel; and
17 Honorable Michael Siragusa.
18 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
19 the report of the Judiciary Committee.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: All
21 those in favor of accepting the report of the
22 Judiciary Committee, signify by saying aye.
23 (Response of "Aye.")
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Opposed,
25 nay.
6614
1 (Response of "Nay.")
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
3 report of the Judiciary Committee is accepted.
4 Senator Gianaris.
5 SENATOR GIANARIS: Let's now take
6 up the report of the Judiciary Committee and call
7 on Senator Hoylman-Sigal.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
9 Hoylman-Sigal.
10 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL: Thank you,
11 Madam President.
12 I rise to submit this report from
13 the Judiciary Committee and move the slate of
14 judges, many of whom we have here today, for the
15 Court of Claims, interim justices of the
16 Supreme Court, and judge of the Monroe County
17 Family Court.
18 Madam President, we heard from these
19 nominees in the Judiciary Committee. I want to
20 thank the committee members for their thoughtful
21 participation during the hearing.
22 I'm very happy to say,
23 Madam President, that this year's slate of
24 19 candidates has a variety of diverse personal,
25 geographic and professional backgrounds, from
6615
1 attorneys with Legal Aid experience to lifelong
2 prosecutors, to those who spent their career
3 within the court system itself.
4 We learn every day in this chamber
5 that representation matters, with the first
6 Black woman to lead the New York State Senate,
7 with the first woman as New York State Governor.
8 And we understand the importance of
9 representation in the judicial branch as well.
10 I have to note that we have to
11 continue to take steps in addressing the
12 disparity with Latino judges in our system,
13 compared to the general population. I've
14 discussed this with Senator Sepúlveda, and it's
15 something we're committed to continuing to
16 address.
17 I'm proud also that the AAPI
18 community is represented in this cohort of
19 judicial nominees, but we are also lacking in
20 that regard too.
21 But we are making history today in
22 one significant regard. We're confirming the
23 first openly trans man to sit as a judge anywhere
24 in the United States. That is our friend
25 Seth Marnin, and I have to acknowledge his
6616
1 presence here today. Happy Pride.
2 Congratulations to all the nominees
3 and to their families who are with us today.
4 Madam President, with that, I move
5 the nominations to the floor and ask that you
6 please recognize any Senator who wishes to speak
7 on the nominations.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
9 Mayer on the resolution.
10 SENATOR MAYER: Thank you,
11 Madam President.
12 It's truly my honor to speak on
13 behalf of all the nominees that were brought
14 before us and submitted by the Governor. As
15 Senator Hoylman-Sigal said, this was an
16 extraordinarily talented, diverse, and
17 experienced group of jurists that we are proud to
18 confirm here today.
19 And I was particularly proud to hear
20 that so many of them had a true feel for the
21 experience of pro bono and other litigants who
22 come into the court system and experience their
23 first taste of the American justice system
24 through the courts, and how important it is that
25 each of them walks away with a feeling that this
6617
1 is a place where they are respected and heard,
2 whatever the outcome is, that this is a place
3 that rules by the rule of law, that is not
4 dependent on how much money you have and how much
5 power you have and what language you speak and
6 who you love.
7 I was extraordinarily impressed by
8 all of them.
9 I want to speak about two
10 reappointments: One, the Honorable Anar Patel,
11 my constituent, who has served with great
12 distinction in the year since we confirmed her
13 before; and the Honorable James McCarty, who has
14 also continued to serve after he was confirmed
15 previously.
16 I would like to specifically say
17 about Judge McCarty, who is a very experienced
18 prosecutor, that the value of having a prosecutor
19 with integrity, judgment and experience is
20 something that we value, alongside with those who
21 come from the other side of the aisle, from
22 Legal Aid and legal services.
23 And I'd like to speak on two new
24 nominees, Brian Haak and David Fried, both of
25 whom I know and I'm very confident will be
6618
1 excellent, really qualified judges who continue
2 to bring distinction to our judiciary.
3 It truly was a beautiful experience
4 yesterday to hear each of you talk about your
5 personal experience, your commitment to the rule
6 of law, and your belief that our judicial system
7 is something worth fighting for.
8 Thank you, and I vote aye on all the
9 nominations.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Thank
11 you.
12 Senator Bailey on the nominations.
13 SENATOR BAILEY: Thank you,
14 Madam President.
15 I want to thank the Governor for
16 really bringing out New York's best and brightest
17 to serve on our court system. There's been a lot
18 of attention on the court system in recent days,
19 weeks and months, and it's always been a focus of
20 mine. It's something that -- you know, it's the
21 forgotten branch.
22 But with these folks on the bench
23 that are returning, and those that will be new to
24 the bench, they certainly won't be forgotten.
25 I want to add my voice to the chorus
6619
1 of Senator Hoylman-Sigal, our chair, who
2 conducted an excellent meeting, and my colleagues
3 who asked thoughtful questions and made
4 thoughtful statements about all of these
5 incredible nominees. And they will all be
6 incredible judges.
7 And I echo the concerns about the
8 lack of diversity, whether it be Latino or AAPI.
9 We can and we will and we should get better.
10 But I want to talk about somebody
11 who I went to law school with and I know
12 incredibly well: Raymond Fernandez.
13 If you know me in this chamber, you
14 know that I love sneakers. And the first
15 conversation Ray and I ever had was about
16 sneakers. You know, I went to lawyering
17 seminars -- I switched lawyering seminars and I
18 went to law sem, and the first conversation we
19 had wasn't about statutory construction, it
20 wasn't about the writing piece that we had in
21 front of us, it was about, yo, I really like your
22 7s. Yo, I really like your 3s.
23 So from then on, a bond was formed,
24 and that was my guide through law school. We met
25 in Judge Jenny Rivera's seminar class. And
6620
1 Judge Jenny Rivera is on the Court of Appeals,
2 but she was a notoriously tough grader. And Ray
3 and I would be up quite late working on her law
4 seminar work.
5 But that's just the tip of the
6 iceberg as to who he is. In law school -- and
7 Ray's a handsome dude, and he would have found a
8 nice young lady anywhere. But in law school, the
9 only way he would have found Tina was in
10 law school, because nobody would have believed
11 Ray that -- where he was at 2 o'clock in the
12 morning, which was in the library. Ray Fernandez
13 used to get escorted out of the library in
14 law school. That was his dedication.
15 So you knew he was a special guy,
16 and he had a special dedication and a special
17 art. But like coming from where he comes from,
18 coming from the disparity that he's come from, so
19 to speak -- he spoke about it in his opening
20 statement. Parents, substance use disorder.
21 Often left by himself to fend for himself,
22 learned certain social and life skills on his
23 own. But he's been able to persevere not only as
24 a great attorney and soon to be judge, but as a
25 better father and a husband.
6621
1 And so this is the kind of person
2 that you want on the bench. This is the kind of
3 person that you need on the bench in New York
4 State. And this is a person that I am extremely
5 proud that I get to say "I vote aye on your
6 nomination."
7 But, you know, I don't drink, I
8 don't smoke, but I like to bet. And Ray, I'm
9 going to bet this isn't the last time that we
10 hear your name about judicial offices.
11 I vote aye, Madam President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Thank
13 you.
14 Senator Ramos on the nominations.
15 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you,
16 Madam President.
17 You know, back home in Queens we
18 love to say that Queens is the future. It is a
19 mantra of sorts that I think speaks to the
20 diversity that is innate to Queens now. Right?
21 I represent the most diverse district in the
22 entire country, where we speak 200 languages and
23 we proudly tout the largest transgender community
24 in the entire country.
25 And so to me, this particular class
6622
1 of judicial minds, of legal scholars, has been
2 truly eye-opening to be able to witness what the
3 future of our bench at different levels can be
4 like, will be like.
5 I think, above all, I want to
6 congratulate and thank the Governor for having
7 the vision and following through on making true
8 efforts to diversify our bench on every level.
9 As a Latina I would be remiss if I
10 didn't, of course, mention and ask that we ensure
11 that our community is much more included among
12 these nominations moving forward.
13 But I am truly proud to be voting in
14 the affirmative. I was so impressed by many of
15 the stories that I heard as a member of the
16 Judiciary Committee, whether it was David Fried
17 or Ray Fernandez. But certainly Seth Marnin's
18 nomination and confirmation today is a proud,
19 proud achievement for our state as we continue to
20 lead the nation, not only during Pride Month but
21 throughout the year, in making sure that we are
22 putting forth equality, justice and fairness.
23 Thank you. I am proud of you all,
24 and I know you will make us all proud throughout
25 your service.
6623
1 Thank you, Madam President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
3 Murray on the nominations.
4 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you,
5 Madam President.
6 I'm sure we have a group of
7 wonderful people. But as Senator Hoylman-Sigal
8 said, we have 19 before us today -- 19 -- that as
9 of last week did not even know they were
10 nominated.
11 All the nominations get brought to
12 the Judiciary Committee. I do not serve on that
13 committee, so I did not have the pleasure of
14 speaking to each one individually. But I did
15 hear from some of my colleagues and got some very
16 good reports.
17 But that hearing was earlier this
18 week. All of this is dropped on us in the final
19 week of session, where we've had bills just,
20 what, within the hour that had messages of
21 necessity. We've had supplemental calendars that
22 were dropped, everyone scrambling to get things
23 done at the last minute. And this is how we are
24 nominating 19 judges.
25 And to top it off, we are not voting
6624
1 on 19 judges individually, on their individual
2 merit. It's a block vote, up on all or down on
3 all. How is that possibly ensuring to the public
4 that we are choosing the best and the brightest?
5 I'm sure many in there are highly
6 qualified and will do a fantastic job. But am I
7 sure that all of them will? No, I'm not.
8 And for that reason,
9 Madam President, I cannot vote yes. I will be
10 voting no.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
12 Ryan on the nominations.
13 SENATOR RYAN: Thank you very much,
14 Madam President.
15 It's great to sit on the
16 Judiciary Committee, because I got to listen to
17 each of these candidates, you know, tell their
18 stories and read their qualifications.
19 I have to thank Governor Hochul for
20 nominating such an outstanding group of jurists,
21 truly an august group of lawyers with backgrounds
22 that match the State of New York. Truly a fine
23 group.
24 I'm going to pick out three to
25 recognize. My constituent Mario Giacobbe is
6625
1 being nominated today. I've known Mario for well
2 over 20 years. He himself is an American success
3 story -- learned English in grammar school, has
4 had a great legal career on all sides of the
5 bench, whether it's criminal justice defense,
6 prosecutor, or civil. He's got a nice,
7 well-rounded career.
8 He's going to be a great judge and,
9 more importantly, he has a disposition that is
10 going to be serving him well as a judge. So I'm
11 going to be very happy to vote in the affirmative
12 for Mario Giacobbe.
13 Former Erie County Attorney Mike
14 Siragusa is being reappointed today. I said a
15 lot of good things about Mike last year, so we'll
16 save that.
17 And my former law school classmate,
18 Maureen McHugh Heitner. She has a contagiously
19 good nature, she's extremely intelligent, and she
20 is a diligent worker. She too has the
21 disposition that's going to make her a successful
22 judge.
23 So it's my honor to vote aye in
24 favor of this slate of judicial candidates.
25 Thank you.
6626
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
2 Sepúlveda on the nominations.
3 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA: Thank you,
4 Madam President, for allowing me to speak on
5 these nominations.
6 As the chair of the Senate
7 Subcommittee on Judicial Diversity, and myself an
8 attorney now for 31 years, diversity is extremely
9 important to me. I recall the first time I
10 stepped foot in the Bronx Courthouse; I could
11 probably count on one hand the number of people
12 of color that were judges or even attorneys.
13 And starting with people like former
14 Assemblyman and chair of the party Roberto
15 Ramirez, then Jose Rivera and our current Speaker
16 of the Assembly, Carl Heastie, and Jamaal Bailey,
17 our new chair, they've made it a point to make
18 the Bronx one of the most diverse counties in
19 terms of representation on the bench.
20 And in my position as chair of the
21 subcommittee, it's something that I'm striving
22 for as well, to make sure that the bench in this
23 state represents and resembles the population of
24 this state.
25 I sat through the committee hearings
6627
1 as well, the nomination hearings as well, and
2 very impressed with many, many of the stories,
3 many of the compelling stories of the nominees.
4 And I was not -- and I'm not happy that we only
5 have one Latino on the Court of Claims that was
6 nominated this year, but I understand that and I
7 believe that the Governor and the leaders of the
8 Legislature are making an effort to diversify the
9 bench on the Court of Claims and throughout the
10 State of New York.
11 I want to speak also on behalf of
12 Raymond Fernandez, who I've known as a wonderful
13 court attorney working for one of the best
14 administrative judges in the State of New York,
15 and that's Doris Gonzalez.
16 Raymond is known for being an
17 extremely intelligent, hardworking, ethical and
18 fair person on the bench. And so I encourage all
19 of you, if you want to look at compelling
20 stories, someone who came from meager means with
21 terrible challenges in his life, he was able to
22 overcome it, and look where he is now. Soon he
23 will be a Court of Claims judge. He's been a
24 role model not only for Latinos but for every
25 person in the State of New York who's had a
6628
1 difficult life and aspires to be a judge.
2 I also want to speak on behalf of
3 Joanne Quinones, who is renominated. An
4 incredible judge, an incredible person who I've
5 grown to admire and I hear nothing but great
6 things about her while she's on the bench.
7 This is an extremely important time
8 for this state. We have to continue to stress
9 the importance of people from all walks of life
10 to be on the bench.
11 Very impressed that we also have the
12 first transgender candidate that's going to be on
13 the Court of Claims. This is what New York State
14 needs, because diversity is nothing but a good
15 thing for this state. When you have different
16 experiences to speak about, when you have
17 different experiences in life, it will help you
18 deliberate better as a judge and as a human
19 being.
20 So I will proudly vote aye for these
21 nominees. Thank you.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
23 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick on the nominations.
24 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
25 Thank you, Madam President.
6629
1 I do share some of the concerns that
2 were expressed by Dean Murray -- Senator Murray,
3 excuse me, regarding the process, that we didn't
4 have more time to interview and consider these
5 candidates. And I think voting as a block is not
6 necessarily the preferred way to be voting on
7 these candidates.
8 I will say that I am very lucky to
9 have been part of the Judiciary Committee, to
10 hear their qualifications and listen to the
11 responses to the questions they were asked.
12 There are many qualified candidates, and some
13 that I couldn't really assess in the short period
14 of time.
15 I would like to speak about two
16 candidates specifically that I do have the
17 pleasure of knowing.
18 Nicole McGregor Mundy is somebody
19 I've known for about 10 years. She is an
20 exceptionally qualified attorney. I am so proud
21 to call her my friend and colleague, and I'm so
22 excited for her to have been nominated by the
23 Governor.
24 And I'd also like to mention one of
25 my constituents, Ellen Tobin, a very qualified,
6630
1 very experienced attorney who's also a mom. And
2 I love to see -- like Ms. Mundy, she's also
3 another mom. I love to support women who can
4 have it all, who can be attorneys, who can be
5 judges, who can be moms and contribute to our
6 communities and to our judicial system.
7 So I'm very proud to speak on behalf
8 of those two candidates. I wish all the
9 candidates well.
10 Thank you, Madam President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
12 Weber on the nominations.
13 SENATOR WEBER: Thank you,
14 Madam President.
15 I stand today to congratulate
16 Judge David Fried. Judge David Fried is a
17 lifelong resident of Rockland, a fellow
18 Village of Montebello resident and a great
19 attorney, someone who's well respected in
20 Rockland County.
21 And as we communicated throughout
22 the last couple of days, he'll be the first
23 appointment and -- someone appointed and now
24 confirmed to the Court of Claims from
25 Rockland County in over half a century.
6631
1 So I know he'll make Rockland proud,
2 and I want to congratulate David Fried.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
4 Kennedy on the nominations.
5 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you,
6 Madam President.
7 I too want to first of all recognize
8 our leader, Andrea Stewart-Cousins, for bringing
9 this auspicious group of candidates to the floor
10 here for their respective positions on the
11 judiciary across New York State.
12 I want to thank Governor Hochul for
13 nominating such an outstanding group of jurists
14 that will work to make us all proud. And from
15 everything that I've seen and everything I've
16 gathered, they've already begun that work, making
17 us proud, serving the community, serving this
18 great state, and demonstrating a pride in
19 justice.
20 There's a couple of people that I
21 want to recognize here today. First of all,
22 Mario Giacobbe, from Buffalo.
23 I have known Mario Giacobbe for over
24 20 years, and I have seen him not just rise up as
25 a leader in the legal community but as someone
6632
1 who's engaged in every aspect of leadership
2 throughout the Western New York community.
3 And I'm so proud to support his
4 appointment here today to the Court of Claims.
5 We have seen him rise up through the ranks, and
6 we have seen him lead. Now he's going to do it
7 on the bench.
8 Another individual I'd like to
9 recognize is Ellen Tobin, someone I have known
10 for the better part of a decade -- who, as has
11 been mentioned already, a working mother, someone
12 who has risen up in her own right in the legal
13 community and now she has an opportunity to lead
14 on the bench.
15 She celebrates her birthday today.
16 She shares her birthday with my wife and our
17 colleague Neil Breslin. Happy birthday, Judge!
18 And congratulations to all of you.
19 I'm proud to voice my support for each and every
20 one of these incredible candidates.
21 With that, Madam President, I vote
22 aye.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
24 Gianaris.
25 SENATOR GIANARIS: I just want to
6633
1 pause, Madam President, in the midst of hearing
2 about our judicial nominees, to recognize a guest
3 in the chamber, a classmate of mine from the
4 Assembly -- he happens to be the Speaker of the
5 Assembly -- Carl Heastie is with us.
6 (Standing ovation.)
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
8 Stavisky on the nominations.
9 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you,
10 Madam President.
11 As a member of the
12 Judiciary Committee, I must tell you that
13 yesterday was quite a memorable day. I know it
14 was important for our friends in the gallery, but
15 also I think for the members of the
16 Judiciary Committee, because the Governor
17 presented us with an incredible group of
18 potential jurists.
19 When they sat in that chair and told
20 their stories of how they got there, the problems
21 that they had, what motivated them, what profound
22 difficulties they had in reaching that day, that
23 will forever I think have an impact on their
24 lives.
25 So I congratulate the Governor, and
6634
1 I thank our Majority Leader.
2 And I particularly want to mention
3 David Fried, from Rockland County, and
4 congratulate him on his appointment.
5 And to the Honorable Maureen
6 Heitner, whom I've known for a number of years
7 because she has been principal law secretary to a
8 number of judges in Queens County, particularly
9 recently retired Justice Margaret McGowan, who's
10 a friend whom I've known for many years also.
11 So I congratulate you all. I think
12 this is a memorable class. And may you continue
13 to serve the people of our state.
14 Thank you, Madam President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
16 Borrello on the nominations.
17 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
18 Madam President.
19 I'm sure behind me there is a group
20 of very fine individuals. And, you know,
21 unfortunately this process is just -- it's
22 ridiculous. That we're coming here at the end of
23 session and we face hundreds of bills a day, and
24 we're being asked to vote on people who are going
25 to be making some very important decisions.
6635
1 What's most ironic is that we're
2 grouping 19 people into one vote. I remember
3 last month when we had to add some fish to the
4 DEC's management program, and we literally had to
5 vote for one fish at a time -- one fish at a
6 time. Here's the vote, 63 votes for this fish,
7 63 votes for that fish. And yet for judges,
8 we're going to group them all together and just
9 do it all at once. We're going to school our
10 judges, but not school our fish.
11 So as a result, I'm going to have to
12 vote no. Thank you, Madam President.
13 (Laughter.)
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
15 Cleare on the nominations.
16 SENATOR CLEARE: Thank you,
17 Madam President.
18 I rise to just commend the
19 Judiciary Committee; our leader, Andrea
20 Stewart-Cousins; the Governor, for such a fine,
21 outstanding group of individuals.
22 I was able to sit in on the hearings
23 yesterday, and story after story, experience
24 after experience just gave me more and more
25 confidence and comfort in this group that we have
6636
1 before us today.
2 You know, I'm going to claim three
3 of them as my constituents.
4 Ray, you're from East Harlem, so it
5 doesn't matter where you are now, that's where
6 you started.
7 Kim, great to see you here today, my
8 constituent from Harlem.
9 And Seth, you are just an amazing
10 individual. Your record-breaking step that
11 you're taking, the history that you're making
12 today is going to mean so much to so many people.
13 And I just -- it warms my heart to
14 see the diversity. You don't know what it looks
15 like standing right here, looking at all of you.
16 But the diversity is incredible and it's just a
17 pleasure to see it.
18 And what's even greater than the
19 diversity in ethnicity and gender is the
20 diversity in where you come from, and the stories
21 you told about why you're here and why you're
22 doing what you're doing. And your lived
23 experience.
24 That's what I bring with me, it is
25 the most valuable thing I bring with me to this
6637
1 job, is my lived experience, because I know that
2 I'm representing many, many people who may not
3 get representation and may not have a voice.
4 And in many ways you all are going
5 to do the same thing. You are representing so
6 many different stories, so many different people,
7 and it is so important that everybody gets
8 justice.
9 I look forward to your continued
10 great work. And I'm just proud to vote aye.
11 Thank you.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
13 Liu on the nominations.
14 SENATOR LIU: Thank you,
15 Madam President.
16 You're awesome. Congrats!
17 Madam President, I vote yes.
18 (Laughter.)
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
20 Rhoads on the nominations.
21 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
22 Madam President.
23 First off, I want to congratulate
24 all of the nominees that sit up in the balcony
25 today. I know that they will make fine justices.
6638
1 Unfortunately, because of the
2 process, I will have to vote against their
3 nominations -- not because of anything having to
4 do with the justices.
5 And to be perfectly honest, we found
6 out about these nominations with 24 hours notice.
7 And in the Judiciary Committee --
8 and as a member of the bar, certainly -- we take
9 our responsibility seriously on the Judiciary
10 Committee. And usually when we interview a
11 nominee, we have the opportunity to take a
12 look -- and they're all wonderful people. Let's
13 start off by saying that.
14 But we have an opportunity to look
15 beyond that at some of their judicial
16 temperament, some of the decisions that they've
17 written over the course of their judicial
18 careers, to get a sense of how they would be on
19 the bench for the particular court that they're
20 going to be assigned to.
21 We didn't have the opportunity to be
22 able to do that. And that's not a discredit to
23 the candidates. The reality is they only found
24 out that they received the nominations 48 hours
25 before they actually appeared in the
6639
1 Judiciary Committee yesterday.
2 So -- and it's unfortunate because
3 the vacancies that they're filling are vacancies
4 that existed for months, yet for some reason the
5 Governor waited until the very last day of
6 session -- which was supposed to be yesterday --
7 to bring those nominations to the floor, so that
8 instead of being here and voting on bills we were
9 in 124 downstairs considering nominees for
10 Judiciary.
11 That's not the way the process is
12 supposed to work. It's disrespectful, to be
13 perfectly honest, to the nominees; disrespectful
14 to us as Senators. And I would hope that the
15 Governor is somehow listening and would take that
16 into account to get us these nominations earlier
17 so that we can treat these nominees with the
18 respect that they deserve.
19 So I will be voting no, but I do
20 congratulate, obviously, all of our nominees, and
21 I look forward to what I hope will be impressive
22 careers on the bench.
23 Thank you, Madam President.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
25 Parker on the nominations.
6640
1 SENATOR PARKER: Thank you,
2 Madam President.
3 Let me rise to add my voice to those
4 who are congratulating the Governor for putting
5 forth such a diverse group of jurists.
6 My congratulations to our leader,
7 Andrea Stewart-Cousins, and the members of the
8 Judiciary Committee for their thorough work, as
9 always. And congratulations to all of you for
10 your hard work, for persevering and making it to
11 this place.
12 I particularly want to congratulate
13 my friend Kim Parker -- no relation -- who I've
14 known since she was a young lawyer. And now --
15 she's still young, but now a judge. And just
16 very proud of her and all the work that she's
17 done. And all that she's done in the community
18 outside of her judicial work is very, very
19 impressive.
20 And although she just happens to
21 live in Harlem, you know, we still love you, Kim.
22 (Laughter.)
23 SENATOR PARKER: And, you know,
24 we're just very, very excited to see this
25 judicial class, you know, provide justice
6641
1 throughout our state.
2 Thank you. I vote aye.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
4 question is on the nominations.
5 All in favor signify by saying aye.
6 (Response of "Aye.")
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Opposed,
8 nay.
9 (Response of "Nay.")
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
11 nominees are confirmed.
12 (Lengthy standing ovation.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
14 Gianaris.
15 SENATOR GIANARIS: Madam President,
16 at this time we're going to simultaneously call a
17 joint meeting of the Committees on Finance and
18 Crime Victims, Crime and Correction in Room 124,
19 and call up Calendar 668, by Senator Parker, for
20 debate.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: There
22 will be an immediate meeting of the Finance
23 Committee in Room 124.
24 The Secretary will read.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6642
1 668, Senate Print 6218A, by Senator Parker, an
2 act to amend the Public Authorities Law.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
4 Lanza, why do you rise?
5 SENATOR LANZA: Madam President, I
6 believe there's an amendment at the desk. I
7 waive the reading of that amendment and ask that
8 you recognize Senator Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick to be
9 heard.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Thank
11 you, Senator Lanza.
12 Upon review of the amendment, in
13 accordance with Rule 6, Section 4B, I rule it
14 nongermane and out of order at this time.
15 SENATOR LANZA: Accordingly,
16 Madam President, I appeal the ruling of the chair
17 and ask that you recognize Senator
18 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick to be heard on that appeal.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
20 appeal has been made and recognized, and
21 Senator Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick may be heard.
22 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
23 Thank you, Madam President.
24 I rise to appeal the ruling of the
25 chair. The proposed amendment is unquestionably
6643
1 germane to the bill at hand, and in fact is more
2 germane to the original print of this bill than
3 the language that was added to the A print,
4 because my proposed amendment keeps the same new
5 Section 1885 of the Public Authorities Law as
6 well as most of its originally proposed language
7 and even keeps the same title of this act.
8 My proposed amendment simply removes
9 some of the language, which is nongermane
10 alienation language, that was recently added to
11 this bill, and improves the original version of
12 the bill at hand by requiring NYSERDA to develop
13 a comprehensive and improved offshore wind plan
14 before projects are finalized, rather than
15 waiting until after the state has already met its
16 offshore wind goals.
17 Further, my proposed amendment would
18 increase the prioritization of community and
19 environmental protections and ensure meaningful
20 public input in developing this plan.
21 While the bill at hand seeks to
22 balance impacts on the environment and balance
23 impacts of the local municipalities, my proposed
24 amendment would prioritize minimizing negative
25 impacts on the environment and local
6644
1 municipalities. I am not opposed to New York
2 practicing a cleaner, more robust energy mix --
3 in fact, I'm in favor of it. However, I am in
4 favor of doing so responsibly and with local
5 input and participation.
6 I have heard from countless
7 constituents who have had questions on how the
8 offshore wind project related to the alienation
9 that was added to the A print of the bill at
10 hand, how it would impact them, and their
11 questions have not been answered.
12 My proposed amendment not only
13 improves the original bill at hand, but it
14 corrects an extreme overreach that sought to
15 bypass local representation.
16 As the State Senator who proudly
17 represents the City of Long Beach and who is
18 committed to ensuring my constituents' voices are
19 heard here in Albany, the alienation language my
20 amendment would remove does not belong in the
21 bill at hand.
22 For these reasons, Madam President,
23 I strongly urge you to reconsider your ruling.
24 Thank you.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Thank
6645
1 you, Senator.
2 I want to remind the house that the
3 vote is on the procedures of the house and the
4 ruling of the chair.
5 Those in favor of overruling the
6 chair, signify by saying aye.
7 (Response of "Aye.")
8 SENATOR LANZA: Request a show of
9 hands.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: A show
11 of hands has been requested and so ordered.
12 Announce the results.
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 21.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
15 ruling of the chair stands, and the bill-in-chief
16 is before the house.
17 Senator Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick.
18 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
19 Thank you, Madam President. On the bill.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
21 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick on the bill.
22 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: The
23 first part of this bill tasks NYSERDA with the
24 purpose of overseeing offshore wind projects.
25 I'm not sure why NYSERDA is tasked with this,
6646
1 since they have nothing to do with procuring
2 transmission and they are really not, in my
3 opinion, the appropriate overseer of this
4 project.
5 My biggest complaint, as I just
6 stated, was that this bill states that NYSERDA
7 only comes in after 9,000 megawatts of offshore
8 wind has been achieved, which is the goal of the
9 CLCPA. The original bill says that NYSERDA is
10 tasked with considering community protection,
11 both onshore and offshore, balancing the impacts
12 on the environment, balancing the impacts on
13 local municipalities, and streamlining the
14 process for the planned transmission process.
15 As you just heard from my suggested
16 amendment, I think that we should be minimizing
17 the negative impacts on these communities and --
18 the offshore community and onshore, in order to
19 make sure that the process is done responsibly.
20 I don't understand why we are
21 waiting until the goal of the CLCPA is met, and I
22 think there is a more appropriate way of doing
23 this.
24 As I stated, I am the proud
25 representative of the City of Long Beach and the
6647
1 neighboring communities of Island Park and
2 Oceanside, all of which are in my district and
3 will be impacted by this project.
4 My amendment would also task NYSERDA
5 with ensuring that the project minimizes these
6 negative impacts, and solicit input from the
7 community and require a minimum number of
8 hearings to be held to get that input from the
9 community.
10 Now, the recent amendment to this
11 bill added Section 4, that was not part of the
12 initial version of this bill. In fact, Section 4
13 is an exact duplicate of Senate Bill S5364, of
14 which I am the sponsor. Section 4 permits the
15 alienation of parkland located in the City of
16 Long Beach, which again is in my Senate district.
17 And from what I am told, this is an unprecedented
18 move by another Senator to take over a local
19 bill.
20 This is a local bill. This is a
21 local issue -- a critical local issue that has
22 the potential to change the City of Long Beach
23 forever. Without the public authority that has
24 been proposed, there is no one to coordinate this
25 massive project to ensure that all of the
6648
1 affected communities are protected.
2 For weeks I have been in meetings
3 with constituents, speaking to them via phone,
4 in-person meetings, as well as emails about their
5 concerns over this project. Equinor, who is the
6 non-U.S. company that has been awarded this
7 project, has failed in every way possible to be a
8 good neighbor to these communities. They have
9 held hearings that they have ignored the
10 residents, they have done nothing to say how the
11 project will be managed, and there are many
12 unanswered questions.
13 So the bill that I propose regarding
14 alienation was not advanced because the
15 constituents have been ignored and I am extremely
16 upset by the fact that this project has the
17 potential to override my constituents and their
18 concerns. In fact, it's my understanding that
19 there's no home-rule at the desk for this bill,
20 which I believe is necessary.
21 The path that has been proposed on
22 this plan goes right through prime real estate in
23 the middle of Long Beach. I've spoken to Equinor
24 about changing that plan, and they have not
25 indicated in any way that they're willing to
6649
1 consider other paths. They are going to tear up
2 an evacuation route, and it is a main
3 thoroughfare for ambulances getting access to the
4 emergency room.
5 Part of this project started with
6 mapping out the wind farm out in the ocean.
7 There has been an unprecedented number of whales
8 that have been beached that have died on the
9 coast of New Jersey as well as Long Island. It's
10 believed by some that this increase in whale
11 deaths is directly related to this project.
12 Until those studies are done and the constituents
13 are reassured that they are not affecting the
14 ecosystem and the marine life in this area, I
15 think they have a right to those answers before
16 this project continues.
17 Another part of this project is the
18 Village of Island Park. The proposal is to put a
19 transfer station that some have said will be
20 seven stories high that will overlook
21 Reynolds Channel and will forever be a blight on
22 the beautiful sight that Long Beach looks at when
23 they look at Island Park. Never mind the fact
24 that off the coast of Long Beach you will forever
25 see these windmills.
6650
1 And I haven't even gotten to the
2 idea that the windmill blades are not recyclable.
3 There are many articles and much research to be
4 done on how to handle these windmills after they
5 are no longer useful. These blades are
6 tremendous. These wind farms, the towers -- the
7 wind turbines, excuse me, are two-thirds of the
8 height of the Empire State Building. These are
9 not small, and these will be visible from the
10 coastline.
11 And anybody that knows Long Beach
12 and Island Park the way I do, because I've spent
13 my life growing up on the coast of Long Island --
14 Long Beach treasures their beach, treasures their
15 coastline. It is an incredible jewel to
16 Nassau County that is used by all the residents
17 of the area.
18 So with that background in mind, I
19 would like to know if Senator Parker, the
20 sponsor, would yield for a few questions.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
22 Parker, will you yield? Senator Parker?
23 SENATOR PARKER: Yes,
24 Madam President.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Will you
6651
1 yield?
2 SENATOR PARKER: Yes, ma'am.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
6 Thank you, Senator Parker.
7 SENATOR PARKER: (Inaudible.)
8 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: I
9 wanted to ask a little background from you as to
10 how the alienation piece of this bill was added
11 to your proposed bill.
12 SENATOR PARKER: Through you,
13 Madam President. As we all know here, the
14 Climate Leadership and Community Protection Act
15 is the ruling guide for both our energy and our
16 environmental policy here in the State of
17 New York. Much of what we've done in the
18 Energy and Telecommunications Committee this year
19 has been around supporting the goals of our
20 climate-change initiatives.
21 Part of -- a small part of what
22 we're doing is 9 megawatt wind turbine projects
23 off the coast of Long Island. And part of what
24 needs to happen in order for that project to
25 properly plug into the grid is this project.
6652
1 And so when presented with the
2 opportunity to do that, we certainly saw that the
3 needs of the state and the energy needs of the
4 people of all of Long Island, you know, took
5 precedence over some of the objections that we
6 were hearing. And so that's how we wound up with
7 this as part of the legislation.
8 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
9 Madam President, will the sponsor continue to
10 yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR PARKER: The sponsor
14 yields.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
18 Thank you, Senator.
19 As you may have just heard -- and I
20 believe I may have misspoken -- Senate Bill 5364
21 is sponsored by me. And that was the alienation
22 language that is now included in Section 4 of
23 your bill. And I'd like to know, how is it that
24 that happened?
25 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
6653
1 through you. Again, this project that needs to
2 happen is part of the CLCPA goals. And so we
3 included it because we thought it was important
4 in order to make sure these 9,000 megawatts of
5 electricity from this offshore wind project
6 happens as soon as possible.
7 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
8 Madam President, will the sponsor continue to
9 yield.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
11 sponsor yield?
12 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: So
16 with that in mind, Senator, why is it that your
17 bill proposes that NYSERDA only comes in after
18 9,000 megawatts is met, which is the goal of the
19 CLCPA? What isn't NYSERDA getting involved in
20 the planning now to make sure that this project
21 proceeds properly?
22 SENATOR PARKER: Through you,
23 Madam President. The offshore wind project was
24 already approved through a different process.
25 NYSERDA is already involved in that.
6654
1 My legislation now is related to the
2 interconnection of bringing that energy literally
3 from offshore, onshore.
4 And so now we are, in my
5 legislation, making sure that the proper approval
6 through NYSERDA are being done in that process.
7 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
8 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
9 continue to yield.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
11 sponsor yield?
12 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: So,
16 Senator, do you have any information about the
17 Long Beach project that is being proposed? How
18 much energy will be garnered from this
19 Empire Wind 2 project?
20 SENATOR PARKER: Through you,
21 Madam President, 1.26 gigawatts are going to be
22 brought onshore.
23 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
24 Madam President, will the sponsor continue to
25 yield.
6655
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: So,
7 Senator, 1.2 gigawatts is a fraction of the
8 9,000 megawatts that is needed for this project.
9 And as part of what's been proposed, wind
10 turbines are going to be built, there's going to
11 be transmission lines coming through Long Beach
12 that go right through prime real estate, through
13 Reynolds Channel, up to Island Park. And these
14 transmission lines are going to come through
15 based on the project that's proposed.
16 So based on what you have asked,
17 NYSERDA to supervise the coordination of these
18 transmission lines, doesn't it make sense that
19 NYSERDA should be involved at the beginning?
20 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
21 through you. NYSERDA is already involved.
22 Right? Like -- so, I mean, when we start talking
23 about -- there's two separate parts of this,
24 right? So two things have to happen. We have to
25 approve, and we have approved, the wind turbines
6656
1 to be built offshore. That was already done.
2 NYSERDA's involved in that process.
3 This now is the second part of the
4 process, which now deals with the interconnection
5 of bringing that energy onshore. And now,
6 through my legislation, we are involving NYSERDA
7 in the study and administration of that part of
8 the project.
9 So NYSERDA is essentially involved
10 in every step of this project.
11 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
12 Madam President, will the sponsor continue to
13 yield.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
15 sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
20 Thank you, Senator.
21 So as I said before, we're -- and as
22 you answered, we're looking at 1.2 gigawatts of
23 energy. How many other wind farms are we going
24 to build off the coast of Long Island to get to
25 the 9,000 megawatts of the goal of the CLCPA?
6657
1 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
2 through you. When we start talking about the
3 projects, they're interconnected. They're not
4 independent. So even though this particular
5 project may be only partial of what we need, is
6 that if this project doesn't happen and its
7 interconnection doesn't happen, there are other
8 projects equaling over 3.3 gigawatts that may be
9 in peril if in fact this project doesn't happen.
10 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
11 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
12 continue to yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
14 sponsor yield?
15 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: So,
19 Senator, where else are we going to make up the
20 other roughly 6,000 megawatts of offshore wind
21 that we need to meet the CLCPA goal?
22 Because if I understood you
23 correctly, there's about 3,000 that's going to
24 come in from the projects off of Long Island.
25 Where is the other 6,000 megawatts coming from?
6658
1 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
2 through you. So when we talk about the total of
3 9,000 megawatts, that is all offshore wind.
4 Right? And almost all of that offshore wind, in
5 my understanding, is coming from this
6 particular -- this set of projects off the shore
7 of Long Island. Right?
8 What we're now discussing in the
9 context of this legislation is one
10 interconnection. There will be other
11 interconnections, but right now we're dealing
12 with this one interconnection. So there will be
13 other interconnections that happen along the
14 South Shore of Long Island.
15 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
16 Madam President, will the sponsor continue to
17 yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
19 sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
24 Thank you.
25 Through you, Madam President, if
6659
1 we're looking at trying to get to
2 9,000 megawatts, are we going to be building
3 further into the ocean south of Long Island? Are
4 we going off the North Shore of Long Island?
5 Where is it anticipated that we're going to get
6 6,000 more megawatts of power, of offshore wind?
7 SENATOR PARKER: Through you,
8 Madam President. So this process is an organic
9 process. And so this -- there's some projects
10 that are already planned, there's some projects
11 that are being planned. We know that when we
12 finish building out and -- planning out and
13 building out, that the goal is 9,000 megawatts.
14 So some of the other projects are not quite fully
15 planned out.
16 There is an opportunity for all of
17 us to be involved, including community members,
18 to be involved with ORES, the Office of Renewable
19 Energy Siting, to be involved in that planning
20 process of the projects that are going to be
21 built out. And not just on the issue of offshore
22 wind, but all the projects that we're going to
23 build out throughout the State of New York,
24 irregardless of the type of technology we're
25 going to be using to build them out.
6660
1 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
2 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
3 continue to yield.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
5 sponsor yield?
6 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: So
10 the information that I have is that New York now
11 has five offshore wind projects in active
12 development, the largest offshore wind pipeline
13 in the nation totaling more than 4300 megawatts,
14 and representing about 50 percent of the capacity
15 that we want to reach by 2035 for the
16 9,000 megawatts that's the goal of the CLCPA.
17 And what I'm trying to find out is,
18 are we going to continue to disrupt our
19 Long Island coast, or is there anyplace else in
20 the state that we are going to get offshore wind
21 from?
22 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President, I
23 think what the Senator is indicating to me is not
24 different from what I've said. Right? Which is
25 that some of the stuff is being built out, some
6661
1 things are still being planned out. And whether
2 it's offshore or whether it's onshore or other
3 types of technology, there are projects that are
4 happening.
5 This particular legislation is about
6 one particular project. So if she's -- if the
7 Senator is interested in conversations about
8 what's going to be happening in other places, she
9 probably should talk to the people at ORES.
10 But this legislation is about this
11 specific interconnection that needs to happen in
12 order to facilitate this 3.3 gigabytes -- I'm
13 sorry, gigawatts of energy.
14 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
15 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
16 continue to yield?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Will the
18 sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
23 Thank you, Senator.
24 I wanted to ask, too, if you've had
25 any communications with the Long Beach public
6662
1 officials regarding the alienation that's in your
2 bill.
3 SENATOR PARKER: Through you,
4 Madam President. I have not directly had any
5 contact with them. But the elected officials in
6 Long Beach have issued a home-rule, which
7 indicates that they support the project.
8 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
9 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
10 continue to yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: So
17 through you, Madam President, I'd like to know if
18 the sponsor had any information, communications
19 with the constituents of Long Beach regarding the
20 alienation that has been proposed.
21 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
22 again through you. Leaning on my last response
23 is that there are elected officials who actually
24 represent Long Beach. They have issued a
25 home-rule, which means that they have approved of
6663
1 this project and this legislation.
2 And so we really have leaned on the
3 fact that the people who represent the
4 constituents are saying that they want this
5 project and have approved of this project.
6 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: On
7 the bill, Madam President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
9 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick on the bill.
10 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
11 Thank you, Senator Parker, for yielding for the
12 questions.
13 This is an extremely important,
14 massive project that's going to have an
15 unbelievable impact on my district. And as I
16 stated before, I'm very troubled that my
17 alienation bill is still pending, yet was copied
18 and pasted into the bill that we're about to vote
19 on. I think it is unprecedented that this has
20 happened, according to what I've been told.
21 I have spoken to public officials
22 from the City of Long Beach, and they were
23 unaware that my bill was hijacked. And not to
24 say that there weren't other public officials
25 that communicated with the other side of the
6664
1 aisle regarding this. But again, this is very
2 troubling.
3 I do have my doubts that the
4 community truly wants to move forward with this,
5 because there are many, many concerns that they
6 have raised that have been unanswered. And it
7 goes beyond Long Beach. It's going to affect
8 Island Park and Oceanside, as I spoke about
9 before.
10 I do appreciate the fact that we're
11 trying to have clean energy and that we have a
12 goal of offshore wind. But I do want someone to
13 consider that we cannot destroy the coast of
14 Long Island in order to meet the goals of the
15 CLCPA of 9,000 megawatts. As I stated, we're
16 looking at roughly half of that goal in three
17 projects that are off Long Island. And those
18 coastlines are going to be impacted drastically
19 by the visibility of these wind turbines, the
20 transmission lines that are coming through
21 Long Beach, through our Reynolds Channel.
22 I have people that are asking me,
23 Would you want the transmission lines to go under
24 your home? Because there's the fear of health
25 issues that result from the transmission lines.
6665
1 And as I said before, you know,
2 we've had at least 14 dead whales show up on the
3 coast of Long Island and New Jersey. And I don't
4 know if it's related to this turbine mapping
5 that's going on. And I don't know for sure that
6 there is a health risk to anybody that comes
7 close or lives close to those transmission lines.
8 But I can say with pretty good
9 certainty that the property values are going to
10 be affected when people know that there's now a
11 transmission line under their home. And I can
12 say with great certainty that Long Beach is going
13 to be disrupted for quite a long time while this
14 project goes on, and their beaches dug up, and
15 Reynolds Channel is dug up, and that there's a
16 seven-story transfer station that's now going to
17 have a perpetual hum that the residents of
18 Island Park need to listen to. And never mind
19 the fact that there is now a seven-story building
20 in a community that doesn't have anything higher
21 than three stories.
22 So what I am so troubled by is that
23 Equinor has hosted what they claim to be
24 community forums where people are able to, you
25 know, express their concerns. They've been
6666
1 staged. They have not really listened to the
2 concerns of the residents.
3 And as I said, all of these
4 concerns, maybe they're not really concerns at
5 all. But I think the residents have a right to
6 know what the answers are to their questions
7 before this project pushes forward. For those
8 reasons, I held my alienation bill.
9 Unfortunately, it is -- I've been
10 overruled, and that means that the constituents
11 of the 9th Senate District are being ignored as
12 well. And that, to me, is troubling. Because no
13 matter whether you are a Republican or a Democrat
14 representing a district, we want our constituents
15 to be heard at all times. And I am very troubled
16 by what has gone on here.
17 For those reasons, Madam President,
18 I will be voting no. Thank you.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
20 Borrello.
21 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
22 Madam President. I'm sorry, I'm causing trouble
23 again, so -- on the bill.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
25 Borrello on the bill.
6667
1 SENATOR BORRELLO: You know,
2 Senator Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick and I share an
3 issue here, and that's an issue that we're going
4 to have these offshore wind projects potentially
5 disrupting not just our -- the land in the area,
6 but literally our quality of life.
7 You know, I look at this bill and it
8 says, you know, that NYSERDA is going to conduct
9 a study to see, you know, impacts on the marine
10 ecosystem, impacts on local municipalities,
11 streamline the process -- all those things that
12 sound good, but here's the deal. Here's the
13 dirty little secret. NYSERDA spent a year, over
14 a year doing a study on placing wind turbines
15 in -- industrial wind turbines in the waters of
16 Lake Erie and Lake Ontario.
17 And we were told by my -- I was told
18 by my colleagues in the EnCon Committee that we
19 have to wait for the study, it's very important.
20 Because I had a bill that would stop that, that
21 would be a moratorium on placing those wind
22 turbines in freshwater. Which is, in the case of
23 Lake Erie, the drinking water for over 11 million
24 people. So we understand that, but we have -- we
25 trust the process, we'll let NYSERDA do their
6668
1 study.
2 Well, then the study came out. And
3 lo and behold, the study said don't do it. The
4 risks are too high, the costs are unknown. The
5 impacts are unknown. There we go, there's the
6 study.
7 So I brought my bill back to the
8 EnCon Committee. And what was the response?
9 Whoa, whoa, we don't know about this NYSERDA
10 study and the Department of Energy may disagree
11 with it, the federal Department of Energy.
12 Which -- what do they know about Lake Erie?
13 Nothing.
14 So that same thing is likely going
15 to happen with this NYSERDA study on Long Island.
16 If they don't get the results they want, they're
17 just going to change the rules.
18 So here's the problem. The only
19 thing green about green energy is money. There's
20 a lot of money being made out there. First and
21 foremost, let's talk about offshore wind in
22 general. Offshore wind, the cost -- just the
23 cost alone of building the infrastructure,
24 building those wind turbines out in the water, is
25 many, many, many multiples more than wind
6669
1 turbines on land. The cost of generating that
2 electricity is at least double that of wind
3 turbines on land.
4 So why are we doing this? Are we
5 out of land? No. I don't like them on land
6 either, let me tell you, because this is just a
7 big boondoggle, waste of money. But we're doing
8 this so we can pretend that we are the climate
9 champions, that we're going to save the world.
10 Because you know what? When you define something
11 as an existential threat to humanity, you can
12 justify doing a lot of really bad things in the
13 process.
14 And that's what's going on here.
15 We're destroying ecosystems, slaughtering
16 animals, tearing up land, destroying our quality
17 of life, contaminating drinking water. It goes
18 on and on and on.
19 But we're saving the planet here,
20 folks. That's what this is all about. We're
21 going to justify it. We're going to say, you
22 know what, it's okay to destroy the environment,
23 because we're going to save the planet. It's a
24 load of you know what.
25 And in the end, what are we going to
6670
1 get? Well, I'll tell you what we're going to
2 get. We're going to get a lot of very expensive
3 projects, billions of dollars. And what's going
4 to happen to climate change? What kind of impact
5 are we going to have? Zero. Nothing. New York
6 State accounts for 0.4 percent of all the
7 greenhouse gas emissions in the world. So if we
8 do all this, wreck our economy, wreck our quality
9 of life, destroy our property values, kill
10 whales, fish -- what are we going go get?
11 Nothing. It's a big ruse.
12 But a lot of people are going to
13 make a lot of money. All those foreign
14 companies, all those Chinese-made solar panels
15 and wind turbines, the slave labor that's used to
16 mine rare-earth metals in places like the
17 Congo -- child labor, the Uyghurs that are
18 enslaved in China right now. We talked a lot
19 about slavery yesterday. There are slaves in
20 China right now mining products so you people can
21 drive electric cars and say "I'm saving the
22 planet." That's what's going on.
23 Well, you know what, we can justify
24 slavery, modern-day slavery -- not 200 years ago,
25 not 300 years ago, today's slavery, because we're
6671
1 saving the planet. That's what's going on here.
2 So this, this is just another ruse.
3 This is just another payoff to donors who are
4 going to be making a lot of money off of this
5 project. That's what this is about. That's what
6 this is about. That's all it's about. And in
7 the end, there's going to be a lot of people that
8 are going to be very unhappy. At the very least,
9 their quality of life is going to be destroyed.
10 So I'm voting no on this and
11 anything else that has to do with this ridiculous
12 boondoggle CLCPA stuff.
13 I'm voting no. Thank you.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
15 Wal -- Senator Martins.
16 SENATOR MARTINS: Why, thank you,
17 Madam President. I was wondering if the sponsor
18 would yield for a few questions.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Will the
20 sponsor yield.
21 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
22 I'll yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
6672
1 Senator Parker. I was wondering if you would
2 tell us if your district is -- has any waterfront
3 in your district in Brooklyn.
4 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
5 it does.
6 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
7 Madam President. Through you, if the sponsor
8 would continue to yield.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Will the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR MARTINS: Senator, I was
15 hoping you could tell us that -- you've been here
16 for many years. We've shared this chamber for
17 many years ourselves. I was wondering if you
18 could tell us whether or not during all the years
19 that you've been here, whether or not there has
20 been a parkland alienation bill proposed by
21 another Senator in this chamber which affects
22 your waterfront without your consent.
23 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President, I
24 only got waterfront in the last six months, and
25 so that would not have been a -- a possibility.
6673
1 In this particular case, this
2 particular project is of substantial interest and
3 benefit to the people of the entire state, and so
4 it's necessary.
5 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
6 through you, if the sponsor will continue to
7 yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR PARKER: The sponsor
11 yields.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
15 Senator Parker.
16 I'll then ask, since waterfront is a
17 recent addition to your district, if anyone --
18 any other Senator has ever gone into your
19 district to introduce a parkland alienation bill
20 without your consent, without even consulting you
21 in submitting a parkland alienation bill, if that
22 has ever happened to you.
23 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
24 I'm not sure. I need to check LRS.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
6674
1 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
2 yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
4 sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR PARKER: I do.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR MARTINS: Senator Parker,
9 I'm wondering if you could tell me whether or not
10 you're familiar with any other offshore wind
11 projects that are landing on Long Island, either
12 off the South Shore of Long Island or off the
13 East End of Long Island.
14 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
15 through you, I am familiar. There's at least --
16 there's a number of them. There's at least three
17 of them that are being worked on now, and a few
18 others that are in planning.
19 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
20 Madam President, through you, if the sponsor
21 would continue to yield.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
23 sponsor yield?
24 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
6675
1 sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR MARTINS: I do agree that
3 there are several of them, probably two, three or
4 so, and others in the works.
5 I was wondering, perhaps, Senator,
6 if you have submitted parkland alienation bills
7 for those projects in their respective
8 communities where those cables would be landing
9 onshore, similar to what you're proposing here
10 today.
11 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
12 not yet. But the night is young.
13 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
14 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
15 yield.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
17 sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
20 sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR MARTINS: Would it surprise
22 the sponsor if on -- in those instances the local
23 community and the developer, the offshore wind
24 developer, were actually able to come to terms
25 and to reach agreement on proper local community
6676
1 hosting benefit agreements as well as the local
2 Senator being able to submit parkland alienation
3 bills which would allow not only for the state to
4 allow it, but the local communities, whether it's
5 the towns -- actually, two towns Out East, on
6 Eastern Long Island -- to reach those agreements
7 on their own in a process that has historically
8 been collaborative, one that involves not only
9 local governments, the developer, but the state
10 representative representing that area.
11 I was wondering if you could tell me
12 if you're familiar with that.
13 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
14 this legislation that's before us now is not
15 forcing anything on any community. It simply is
16 permissive to allow the agency to be involved in
17 it. And in fact, the local elected officials
18 have in fact put forward a home-rule message
19 which indicates that they agree with the project.
20 And so this is not something that is
21 being put on a community. In fact, the leaders
22 of that community have agreed to it.
23 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
24 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
25 yield.
6677
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR MARTINS: So are those
7 other projects that were approved off the
8 East End of Long Island and off the South Shore
9 of Long Island, were they equally as important as
10 priorities to the state in reaching its CLCPA
11 goals?
12 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
13 this legislation is about a specific project.
14 Right? And a specific interconnection around a
15 specific project.
16 Now, what's happening with other
17 projects, you know, we have to kind of wait and
18 see kind of where we're going to be with those
19 things. But let's understand this. That there
20 is an existential threat to our planet. And
21 New York State has done what it's done, as the
22 Empire State it has led the way on creating a
23 first-in-the-nation, very bold program in order
24 to address that.
25 And so there's going to be things
6678
1 that we need to do, and all those things are not
2 going to be comfortable. But they are in fact
3 quite necessary and proven by science. And so
4 here we are in this moment on a micro level,
5 after we've already approved some offshore wind
6 projects, now looking to make sure that that
7 electricity that we're producing offshore can in
8 fact get onshore to in fact light and heat the
9 homes and roadways and the businesses of the
10 Senator's constituents, his neighbors, and his
11 friends.
12 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
13 Madam President, if the sponsor
14 would continue to yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR MARTINS: I was wondering
21 perhaps if the sponsor has been to Long Beach to
22 visit the location where this cable would
23 actually be making landfall.
24 SENATOR PARKER: Through you,
25 Madam President, I have. Actually, Long Beach is
6679
1 one of my favorite beaches.
2 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
3 Madam President, through you -- and
4 I don't disagree, it's a great beach -- if the
5 sponsor would continue to yield.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
7 sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR PARKER: I do.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR MARTINS: And it's got a
12 great boardwalk.
13 But I was wondering if you could
14 tell us if you're familiar with any other
15 potential landing sites for this offshore wind
16 cable. Or whether -- excuse me. Or whether or
17 not there were other discussions involving other
18 sites outside of the one that you proposed in
19 this bill.
20 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
21 through you, that was a negotiation that frankly
22 the community, before they issued a home-rule on
23 this particular site, should have been
24 negotiating.
25 And so we're right now, in the
6680
1 context of this legislation, addressing what was
2 put before us. And not the, you know, options
3 that may in fact have been going on in that
4 context.
5 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
6 Madam President, through you, if the
7 sponsor would continue to yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR MARTINS: So as part of any
14 parkland alienation bill here, here and in the
15 other house, there has historically been a
16 requirement that for every property that is --
17 every piece of parkland property that is being
18 alienated, that there be a -- at least another
19 piece of parkland that is dedicated of a similar
20 or larger size to the one that is being
21 alienated.
22 Are you familiar with that policy,
23 Senator?
24 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
25 through you. I'm familiar with that practice.
6681
1 I'm not sure it's policy.
2 But there is language in the bill
3 that in fact allows that.
4 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
5 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
6 yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
8 sponsor yield?
9 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR MARTINS: Well, I
13 think policy, practice -- it may be practice
14 here, it may be policy in the other house. I
15 guess we can discuss that.
16 But I was reading that particular
17 section of your bill, and I see that your bill
18 doesn't speak to a trade in lots and in property
19 but in fair market value, that there would be a
20 contribution somehow, a payment of value, as
21 opposed to the dedication of parkland. Something
22 that, you know, we've all striven, certainly,
23 whether it's a policy or a practice, to make sure
24 that for every square inch of parkland that is
25 taken out, that there is at least a square inch
6682
1 or more of parkland that is dedicated for the
2 benefit of the residents of the great State of
3 New York. That's been our practice or our
4 policy.
5 And yet in this bill,
6 Madam President, I see that we're talking about
7 money, fair market value. Perhaps the sponsor
8 can speak to that?
9 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
10 through you. I'm going to make two quick points.
11 The first is that this is something
12 that's done in public policy often, generally,
13 and is referred to as being Pareto-optimal.
14 Right? Pareto was an Italian economist who said
15 that in fact if you can substitute -- if you
16 disenfranchise somebody or, you know, make people
17 uncomfortable because of something, if you can
18 give them money, that it becomes still a good
19 option to do from a policy perspective because
20 you can essentially trade money for their
21 discomfort. Right?
22 And so from a broad policy
23 perspective, this is something that is generally
24 done. In the context of these kinds of specific
25 deals, it is also done very, very often. Most of
6683
1 the time they appear as, you know, upgrades or
2 development or, you know, projects in which
3 you're saying, Okay, we're going to put it back
4 and then on top of that we're going to give you,
5 you know, a boathouse or bathrooms or we're going
6 to do something from a capital perspective to
7 upgrade the land that's been alienated. Right?
8 And so that's a common practice,
9 both here in the State of New York and within the
10 context of these kind of projects.
11 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
12 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
13 yield.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
15 sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
20 So there are four different
21 municipalities, from my understanding, that were
22 involved in negotiations with regard to a
23 possible landing site: The City of Long Beach,
24 the Town of Hempstead, the Village of Island Park
25 and the Village of Atlantic Beach, all of which
6684
1 were having discussions with the developer.
2 Did anyone ever bring that to your
3 attention with regard to your efforts here today
4 to include this parkland alienation bill in your
5 bill?
6 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
7 through you, I did not have specific
8 conversations with those folks about this
9 specific legislation. We did lean on the fact,
10 as we often do here in the State Legislature, on
11 the fact that we had a home-rule message that
12 indicated that the community approved of the
13 project and we were willing to go forward.
14 SENATOR MARTINS: I thank you for
15 that. I do.
16 Madam President, if the sponsor
17 would continue to yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
19 sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR MARTINS: So there were no
24 discussions with the local community. You became
25 aware that there was a home-rule message. May I
6685
1 ask how you became aware that there was a
2 home-rule message pending in this house with
3 regard to a bill that had been submitted by
4 somebody else that wasn't before your committee?
5 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
6 through you, because they gave it to us. That's
7 how we became aware of it. They sent us the
8 home-rule.
9 SENATOR MARTINS: And
10 Madam President, through you. When you say
11 "they," Senator, who --
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Will the
13 sponsor yield?
14 SENATOR PARKER: Yes, I continue to
15 yield.
16 SENATOR MARTINS: Pardon?
17 SENATOR PARKER: I'm just telling
18 the President I continue to yield.
19 SENATOR MARTINS: Oh, thank you.
20 Thank you.
21 Who is "they"? Who sent you the
22 home-rule message?
23 SENATOR PARKER: From the City of
24 Long Beach, Madam President.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
6686
1 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
2 yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
4 sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR MARTINS: So do you recall,
9 Senator, who reached out to you from the City of
10 Long Beach with a copy of the home-rule message?
11 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
12 there was no -- I didn't look at -- I looked at
13 the home-rule. I didn't look at the email
14 address and all the other -- the things attached
15 to it.
16 You know, again, getting a home-rule
17 message on legislation that affects local
18 communities is a standard operating procedure
19 here in the State Legislature. It's not
20 something odd. It's not something unusual. And
21 so when you receive one, there's not -- you know,
22 it's not overly critiqued. You get the home-rule
23 message, you confirm that he got it from who he's
24 supposed to get it to, you look at it, you have
25 to say you have it, and then you move forward
6687
1 based on the fact that you have it.
2 Again, what we -- the -- the
3 practice of what we always do with home-rule
4 messages.
5 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
6 Madam President, if the sponsor
7 would continue to yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR PARKER: The sponsor
11 yields.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR MARTINS: So in fact in
15 this house we have historically had a counsel
16 that reviews home-rule messages to verify whether
17 or not they are in order, to verify that they
18 actually comply with the requirements of the
19 house. There's a corresponding verification
20 similarly in the other house.
21 Did you check with the counsel to
22 determine whether or not that home-rule message
23 that you received had actually been received by
24 them and had -- and whether or not it met all of
25 their criteria and requirements of the house that
6688
1 we would normally require for a home-rule
2 message?
3 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
4 through you. I need some clarification. When
5 you say -- when the Senator says check with
6 "them," who was I supposed to be checking -- who
7 are we supposed to be checking with in order to
8 determine what?
9 SENATOR MARTINS: I will clarify --
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:
11 Senator --
12 SENATOR MARTINS: -- Madam
13 President. We've always had -- and I'm assuming
14 we still do, I haven't done a parkland alienation
15 bill yet this session -- a counsel who is
16 responsible for reviewing those home-rule
17 messages to determine whether or not they are in
18 fact compliant and, if they are, we're able to
19 move forward with our legislation.
20 I'm curious, since you received it
21 from the city directly, whether or not you
22 checked with Senate counsel to determine whether
23 or not it actually met the requirements of the
24 Senate to see whether or not it was compliant in
25 order to be used in your bill.
6689
1 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
2 the home-rule message has been part of the record
3 of this project for a number of months, going
4 back, you know, I think probably to March. It is
5 in the system. Anyone in the Senate could
6 actually access it. If any Senator here would
7 look to see a copy of it, we will make sure that
8 they see it. But they all have staff that know
9 how to look at the system.
10 And it's part of the public record
11 that a home-rule message on this particular
12 project has been received by the New York State
13 Senate.
14 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
15 Madam President, through you, if the
16 sponsor would continue to yield.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
18 sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR MARTINS: And I appreciate
23 that, Senator Parker.
24 Did you then in fact, upon receiving
25 it from the City of Long Beach, go to check to
6690
1 see whether or not it was actually filed with the
2 Senate? Because you didn't get it from the
3 Senate, right? You said you got it directly from
4 Long Beach?
5 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
6 through you. We, the Majority in the Senate, the
7 counsel's office received it. So when I talk
8 about we received it, I didn't personally receive
9 it. It didn't come to my email address. It came
10 to the Senate. And the counsel's office received
11 it as they receive many other home-rule messages
12 and properly placed it on the system and filed it
13 in the way that we typically file home-rule
14 messages for our records.
15 And so once I got indication that we
16 had received a home-rule message on it, I
17 understand that we have people who do that, and I
18 let them do their job so they let me do my job.
19 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
20 Madam President. Through you, if the sponsor
21 would continue to yield.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
23 sponsor yield?
24 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
6691
1 sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR MARTINS: I thank you for
3 that, again.
4 But I had asked you earlier how you
5 got it, and I was asking how you, you in your
6 individual capacity, you, your office got it.
7 Not how the Senate Majority got it, not how it
8 was filed with this body, but how you got it.
9 How did this home-rule message make its way to
10 you to, to your office, in order for you to take
11 it and to incorporate it, to know that there was
12 a home-rule message and know that you wanted to
13 intervene and include a -- your existing bill to
14 include this piece in your bill? How did it come
15 to you?
16 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President,
17 through you. So this is a teaching moment for
18 the people of New York State who may be watching
19 this and care about how things actually work in
20 the New York State Senate.
21 There is a thin line between my
22 staff and the staff who make up the Senate
23 Democratic Counsel's office. They work together.
24 Half the time, I don't know -- when I look, turn
25 back, I don't know whether they're my staff, the
6692
1 Senate staff. But I know they work here and
2 they're smart people.
3 In this particular case, we were
4 informed by counsel's office that there was a
5 home-rule message. And that's how we received
6 it. There was no need for my staff specifically
7 to receive it, because this is a public process.
8 It is available publicly. It is available to
9 every member of the Senate. And it is the way
10 that we typically do things. This is not a,
11 like, odd thing or unusual circumstance. This
12 is -- this is a day in the life of the Senate, is
13 to receive home-rule messages on legislation that
14 affect local communities.
15 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
16 through you, if the Senator would continue to
17 yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
19 sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR PARKER: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR MARTINS: I appreciate the
24 teaching moment we just had. And I want to ask
25 you, then, if this is common. Because it is
6693
1 important to how we get to the point of this
2 particular bill.
3 Madam President, on the bill.
4 Thank you, Senator Parker.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
6 Martins on the bill.
7 SENATOR MARTINS: So we have an
8 offshore wind developer who's having trouble with
9 a local community in reaching agreement with
10 regard to where they're going to land their
11 offshore cable. It's not unique.
12 These projects I referenced
13 Out East, off the East End of Long Island, took a
14 long time. Some of them involved litigation.
15 There were fights over whether or not the landing
16 cable would be in one area of Easthampton or in
17 another area, whether it would come onshore at a
18 county park or a state park. There were
19 discussions about the impacts to the local
20 community and discussions about how those
21 off/onshore cables, when they landed, how they
22 would then interface with the transmission system
23 if there's a substation in the area, and the
24 logistics involved in doing that.
25 Those are decisions that are left to
6694
1 local communities, and rightfully so, because you
2 want to make sure that your local villages and
3 towns and cities have the ability to have those
4 conversations and that they work with their
5 locally elected State Senator and Assemblymember
6 to ensure that they're working collaboratively
7 and that one piece doesn't move ahead before all
8 of the pieces are in place.
9 And sometimes it takes time.
10 Because, you know, as Winston Churchill once
11 said, Madam President, democracy is the worst
12 form of government -- except for everything else.
13 So it is democracy. And we do
14 expect that it's going to sometimes be difficult.
15 And I don't know what the process is when you're
16 dealing with community boards in New York City,
17 and I don't know whether or not those are more or
18 less difficult than dealing with some of the
19 local communities that we have with our villages
20 and towns. But I would not, under any
21 circumstances, ever go into another Senator's
22 district and pretend to go and take over a
23 parkland alienation bill that belongs in someone
24 else's district, because that's not what we do
25 here in the Senate, whether you're in the
6695
1 Majority or whether you're in the Minority.
2 I can tell you this. I had the
3 honor or serving in this body as a member of the
4 Majority and as a member of the Minority. And I
5 can tell you that we would never, ever do that to
6 a colleague and do that to their local
7 communities. Under any circumstances.
8 So it troubles me, as a person who
9 loves this institution and believes in protecting
10 the integrity of the institution. As it falls to
11 each one of us as members, it's up to us to
12 protect it. So when something happens that just
13 doesn't seem right, we have to ask ourselves why
14 that is.
15 This one doesn't seem right. Not
16 only do we not have the proper, in my view,
17 alienation of parkland requirements that has
18 another parcel of land, another piece of land
19 that is going to be dedicated to parkland to
20 substitute for this, but we have a colleague
21 going into another colleague's district and
22 interfering with negotiations that were taking
23 place with the developer.
24 Now, I know Senator Parker to be a
25 colleague, a person of integrity. And I'm not
6696
1 casting any aspersions at all, nor would I. But
2 I'm concerned. I'm concerned because the only
3 group I think that benefits from this is the
4 developer. I am. Because they want a fast
5 answer, they want to fast-track this. They don't
6 want to have to deal with the local communities.
7 They do not want to have to negotiate with
8 multiple bodies to figure out where they're going
9 to land that cable. And yet here we are.
10 So I can only ask that the sponsor
11 reconsider this bill, under the circumstances, to
12 allow the process to play itself out. It's
13 entirely up to the sponsor. It's not up to me.
14 It's not my bill. I don't have the authority to
15 strike the enacting clause and to allow this
16 process to move forward.
17 But I can tell you that there were
18 questions here that would impact each and every
19 one of us if this were in our district. And I
20 can tell you that if this were in my district, I
21 certainly would be more upset than I am right
22 now, and I'm pretty upset right now. Or at least
23 disappointed in how this is playing out.
24 So we all want renewable energy. We
25 all understand that that's going to be part of
6697
1 our future. We understand we're decarbonizing
2 here in the state and we're moving to a
3 carbon-neutral future and we're making great
4 strides and great investments in this state
5 towards that end.
6 But it should not come, ever, at the
7 expense of the integrity of this institution and
8 the respect we need to show for each other as
9 members of this body.
10 Madam President, I vote nay.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Are
12 there any other Senators wishing to be heard?
13 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
14 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
15 Read the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 10. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
22 Parker to explain his vote.
23 SENATOR PARKER: Thank you very
24 much, Madam President.
25 So I really just wanted to get the
6698
1 record straight about a couple of things, one of
2 which is that this project is necessary. It is
3 one thing to talk about big, you know, kind of
4 goals that we have to set in the context of
5 dealing with our climate crisis. But that then
6 gets down to the nitty-gritty of looking at
7 projects.
8 And some of the things that we're
9 going to have to do is going to have to disrupt
10 the way that we've been doing things. Doing
11 things as we've been doing them is what got us
12 into this trouble in the first place. And so the
13 definition of insanity is to do the same thing
14 over and over again and expect a different
15 result.
16 We're not going to create a clean
17 energy future by continuing to use fossil fuels.
18 And so you have to create clean energy projects.
19 Clean energy projects are going to require us to
20 in fact do things differently. And it's
21 something that's going to be disruptive to the
22 way that we're moving day to day.
23 This notion that the climate crisis
24 that our planet is facing is some kind of made up
25 crisis, and the fact that we have climate crisis
6699
1 deniers in this chamber is exactly why it's
2 important for us to be really, really forward
3 about what needs to happen here.
4 And the fact that -- honestly, I'm
5 going to tell you why I stood up. Let me keep
6 it -- lemme keep it funky witchu, Senator.
7 Somebody's going to tell me that
8 they're concerned about slavery in China when
9 yesterday they couldn't even acknowledge the
10 enslavement of African people in this very
11 country, and vote against a bill that required
12 reparations. And now --
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
14 Parker -- Senator Parker --
15 SENATOR PARKER: And now you're
16 upset about slavery in China? Really?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
18 Parker, if you can just bring it down a little,
19 please.
20 SENATOR PARKER: Okay.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Thank
22 you.
23 SENATOR PARKER: But I'm just
24 saying like you're concerned about China, China,
25 not America. You're concerned about China and
6700
1 possible slavery in China and a documented
2 history of enslavement here that you don't even
3 want to provide restitution to? And so you're
4 going to deny enslavement of African people and
5 you're going to deny a climate crisis, here in
6 2023 in this chamber. And wonder why your party
7 languishes in the Minority.
8 It's outrageous. And it's
9 insincere. And it's ridiculous. You may not
10 like the process, but this is what must be done.
11 I'll leave you with a little piece.
12 There's a professor at the Kennedy School of
13 Government at Harvard University called Martin
14 Linsky. He wrote a book called Leadership on the
15 Line. And Martin Linsky argues that leadership
16 is not a noun but a verb. That no one is
17 actually a leader; you just have leadership
18 moments. And those moments are when you're doing
19 something that's unpopular. When everybody's
20 doing something that everybody agrees with,
21 that's not leadership. All you're doing is being
22 a representative.
23 Leadership is about when there's a
24 real problem and people are upset about how
25 you're going to solve it, and you decide to go
6701
1 forward. And that's what the Democratic
2 Conference of the State Senate continues to do
3 every single day, is look at the things that are
4 going on in our communities and confront them
5 head on.
6 And sometimes people are upset about
7 that, and I get it. But we can't allow NIMBYism
8 to stop our climate goals. We can't allow people
9 not being able to go to the beach in a certain
10 section for a few months to stop the build-out of
11 a clean energy economy. We certainly can't allow
12 climate deniers to control the narrative and the
13 policy of what must happen at such a critical
14 time as the one that we're in.
15 And so I stand in defense of not
16 just this legislation and how it's necessary to
17 reach the climate goals of our great state, but I
18 stand really to make sure that truth is being
19 told in this place and that people understand
20 that just saying something and acting like it's
21 true -- and you know it's not true -- is not
22 honorable in this place. It's just simply not.
23 And I know that people do that all
24 over the country, and we had a former president
25 who did that -- and now he's getting his just
6702
1 deserts because he did that. But that's not a
2 thing here in this body. And as people
3 indicated, I've been here a long time, and
4 just -- and not that I've been in a place where
5 I've felt like people are just saying whatever
6 they want to say in -- in defiance of the truth.
7 I vote aye.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
9 Parker to be recorded in the affirmative.
10 Senator Borrello to explain his
11 vote.
12 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
13 Madam President.
14 I heard during the debate that this
15 is going to be disruptive and uncomfortable. You
16 know who it's not going to be uncomfortable for?
17 The people in New York City that are pushing all
18 of this. So I have an idea. You know, I've been
19 in New York City, there's lots of tall buildings.
20 I've been to the top of a lot of them --
21 Rockefeller Center, the Empire State Building.
22 It's really windy up there, all the time.
23 We should start putting wind
24 turbines at the top of every single building in
25 Manhattan and everywhere else. Because if we're
6703
1 going to have to sacrifice, if we're going to be
2 sacrificing because this is such an existential
3 threat to humanity, I want those folks that spent
4 five, ten million dollars on a co-op in Manhattan
5 to maybe have to have a wind turbine across -- on
6 the building across from them, and watch the
7 shadow flicker as the sun sets.
8 Then we'll see how much of an
9 existential threat to humanity that is when it
10 starts impacting their property values, their
11 quality of life. It's really great to be sitting
12 in the concrete canyons of New York City talking
13 about how this is such an important thing, a
14 threat. New York City, 30 percent of your energy
15 comes from renewable energy, 70 percent from
16 dirty, old-fashioned coal and oil and everything
17 else. Upstate, 90 percent renewable energy.
18 We aren't the problem. You folks
19 are. So about how you step up and be a little
20 uncomfortable for yourselves. Start putting all
21 that stuff on your buildings, disrupting your
22 lives. Then we'll see how committed you are to
23 the climate crisis.
24 I vote no.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
6704
1 Borrello to be recorded in the negative.
2 Senator Lanza to explain his vote.
3 SENATOR LANZA: Madam President,
4 I'd like to take this -- to explain my vote, take
5 this in a different direction. Right?
6 I appreciate the passion. I get it.
7 If you don't get mad at things, then you probably
8 are not -- you probably don't care about them
9 either.
10 You know, the opposition here is
11 pretty simple, it really is. And it's not about
12 NIMBYism. I served with my good friend
13 Senator Parker in the City Council, and local
14 land use issues sometimes are the most important
15 things that happen in our districts.
16 The issue here is not really -- it's
17 not about the energy, the wind turbines, the
18 clean energy, the climate, the climate deniers,
19 the climate theorists. It's simple. We have a
20 member here who cares about her community. She
21 lives there, just like every one of us lives in
22 our districts. There's a company, whether it's a
23 clean energy company, a turbine company, a
24 lollipop company. They're coming into her
25 district and they want to rip up the roads, they
6705
1 want to rip up the streets, they want to rip up
2 the beaches and they want to go through people's
3 homes.
4 And all this member is saying is
5 that the people that are there should have a say
6 is how that happens. I hear all the time, you
7 know, big business gets to run roughshod over
8 people. We hear that all the time, that it's
9 this side of the aisle that allows that to
10 happen. And this is what we do; we say, well,
11 you make that happen so I'm going to make that
12 happen.
13 That's what's happening here. This
14 is a big company that's saying, We're going to
15 come where we want to come, we're going to rip up
16 the streets we want to rip up, we want to rip up
17 the beaches that we want to rip up, we're going
18 to do it on our timeline, we're going to disrupt
19 your community for as long as we want, and we
20 don't even want to hear what you have to say
21 about it.
22 And I know Senator Parker, I've
23 known him a long time. He doesn't like that
24 either, and he fights against that.
25 And I understand there's this bigger
6706
1 picture. But right now the opposition is really
2 closer to the ground, and that's what this
3 opposition today on this side of the aisle is
4 about.
5 Madam President, I vote in the
6 negative.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
8 Lanza to be recorded in the negative.
9 Senator Martins to explain his vote.
10 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
11 Madam President. I'll be brief.
12 You know, the CLCPA, C, L, C, P, A,
13 it sounds -- it sounds impressive. It actually
14 stand for Climate Leadership and Community
15 Protection Act. Climate Leadership, Community
16 Protection Act. We heard about climate
17 leadership, but no one wanted to talk about
18 community protection and the need for us to
19 protect our local communities when it comes to
20 making these decisions.
21 And this is every bit as much about
22 protecting those communities in Long Beach as it
23 is anything else. And the ability of the Senator
24 that represents the great City of Long Beach to
25 do just that.
6707
1 So before we throw stones, before we
2 make claims that the ends justify the means --
3 which I don't believe is the case. It certainly
4 shouldn't be -- Madam President, let's
5 understand, we're not climate deniers. It has
6 nothing to do with that. It has to do with
7 process.
8 And for that reason, again, I'll be
9 voting nay.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
11 Martins to be recorded in the negative.
12 Senator Gianaris to explain his
13 vote.
14 SENATOR GIANARIS: Thank you,
15 Madam President.
16 I was listening with interest to a
17 very passionate debate and just wanted to add my
18 two cents here.
19 Just to be clear, there is no
20 requirement that someone whose district is
21 affected by a particular project has the ultimate
22 say in this body as to what happens to it. And
23 it has happened many, many times, despite the
24 protestations from my colleagues. Because there
25 are a lot of things that have bigger
6708
1 complications than just a particular local
2 effect.
3 Now, I heard the comments from one
4 of my colleagues, and I started chuckling in my
5 seat. It was said that this is a big company,
6 they want to come into the district, rip up what
7 they want to rip up, disrupt what they want to
8 disrupt, don't want to hear about what you have
9 to say about it.
10 I feel like I made that statement,
11 back in 2018, 2019 when a big bad company known
12 as Amazon tried to come into my community. And
13 the people on that side of the aisle berated me
14 for it -- to this day, five years later.
15 I didn't have the time,
16 unfortunately, while I was preparing to explain
17 my vote to look up some of the things said by the
18 very people sitting on that side of the aisle
19 about why what I was doing was really bad because
20 it wasn't considering the bigger picture. It was
21 said I wasn't considering the effect on jobs on
22 Long Island, and that's why I was criticized for
23 taking that position.
24 Back then, the Long Islanders among
25 us didn't care about the local person or the
6709
1 effect that would have had in that district, in
2 that community. I was the bad guy back then.
3 But now the shoe is on the other foot, and it's
4 funny how the hypocrisy rains down.
5 We're doing what we have been
6 elected here to do. I don't need to remind my
7 colleagues that we have a majority, and so we get
8 to decide what bills pass and what bills don't
9 pass. Because the voters of this state have
10 empowered us to do that. And in this case, we
11 want to create the opportunity for a renewable
12 energy project to go forward.
13 By the way, we're not mandating it
14 go forward. We're giving it the opportunity to
15 continue in the process. And that's why this is
16 a good vote.
17 And just to correct the record,
18 Senator Parker was never in the City Council as
19 far as I understand, so I think Senator Lanza
20 must have been thinking of other times they
21 worked together. But just so no one thinks he
22 was in the Council.
23 SENATOR LANZA: I misspoke.
24 SENATOR GIANARIS: I vote yes,
25 Madam President, and I thank you for the
6710
1 opportunity.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
3 Gianaris to be recorded in the affirmative.
4 Senator Rhoads to explain his vote.
5 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
6 Madam President.
7 And I thank Senator Gianaris for his
8 comments. I think the difference here, though,
9 is that in the case of Amazon, you had the
10 opportunity to be heard. And in this case,
11 Senator Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick has not had the
12 opportunity to be heard, was not even
13 consulted -- and with respect to a project that
14 was going on in her district.
15 Process does matter, no matter what
16 the goals are. Leadership is not bending people
17 to your will. Leadership is building consensus.
18 Leadership is being respectful of the opinions of
19 others, considering those opinions, and trying to
20 work collaboratively towards a common goal. That
21 did not happen here.
22 And my colleague on the other side
23 of the aisle who is the sponsor for this
24 legislation was very passionate. But I think he
25 was very passionate about the fact that he was
6711
1 called out on something that should never have
2 happened, and called out on something that in the
3 past in this chamber, as is my understanding of
4 its history, would never have happened. But
5 rather than acknowledge that, we got the
6 theatrics.
7 The bottom line is we have a
8 community on the South Shore of Long Island that
9 is now bearing the brunt of the CLCPA without
10 being asked, without being consulted. They are
11 the ones that are feeling the impact for the
12 benefit of the rest of the state. Whether you're
13 the majority or the minority, the least that you
14 can do is consult and work collaboratively with
15 the residents and with the representatives, their
16 representatives in that district, to ensure that
17 somehow we might be able to work together to make
18 sure that all interests are being protected.
19 That did not happen here. It's
20 wrong. It was wrong 10 years ago. It's wrong
21 now. It will be wrong 10 years from now.
22 So, Madam President, I vote in the
23 negative, and I urge my colleagues to do so.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
25 Rhoads to be recorded in the negative.
6712
1 Announce the results.
2 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
3 Calendar Number 668, those Senators voting in the
4 negative are Senators Ashby, Borrello,
5 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming,
6 Lanza, Martins, Mattera, Murray, Oberacker,
7 O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, Rolison, Stec,
8 Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.
9 Ayes, 42. Nays, 21.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
11 is passed.
12 (Pause.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
14 Secretary will read.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 746, Senate Print 2943B, by Senator Kavanagh, an
17 act to apply the Housing Stability and Tenant
18 Protection Act of 2019.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
20 Martins, why do you rise?
21 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
22 I was hoping that the sponsor would yield for a
23 few questions.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
25 Kavanagh, do you yield?
6713
1 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Happily,
2 Madam President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
6 Senator.
7 Now, Senator, I understand that the
8 intent, at least the stated intent of this bill
9 is to clarify the retroactive application of
10 certain provisions of the HSTPA, certainly in
11 light of some Court of Appeals decisions. Would
12 you agree?
13 SENATOR KAVANAGH: No, through you,
14 Madam President, not really. It's primarily
15 about the prospective applications rather than
16 the retroactive -- retrospective applications of
17 the bill. And I could provide a little context
18 if that would be useful.
19 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
20 Madam President. And I do thank you for that.
21 And certainly, however you choose to answer,
22 Senator.
23 But my question is in light of
24 certain Court of Appeals decisions, at least it's
25 my understanding in reading the bill and the
6714
1 references in the summary and memorandum of
2 support, that this bill came directly from at
3 least one, possibly two Court of Appeals
4 decisions and seeks to address those decisions in
5 light of the HSTPA. Is that correct?
6 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Again, through
7 you, Madam President. For those who -- the HSTPA
8 being the Housing Stability and Tenant Protection
9 Act. My colleagues graciously reminded us of
10 what the CL and the CPA are, so HSTPA is the
11 Housing Stability and Tenant Protection Act,
12 which was passed in 2019.
13 It was a very broad law that closed
14 a lot of loopholes in the rent laws and provided
15 protections for manufactured mobile homes and
16 changed various provisions of landlord/tenant
17 law.
18 The particular provision we're
19 talking about here was Part F of that law, and
20 that was a law -- a piece of this law that dealt
21 with how far back the law -- the courts or HCR,
22 in reviewing overcharge claims under the rent
23 laws, should look.
24 And before the HSTPA, the law was
25 such that there was a four-year lookback period
6715
1 and a two-year period before any case might be
2 brought where a landlord could be charged treble
3 damages if they were found to have exceeded the
4 legal rent.
5 The HSTPA changed that lookback
6 period to six years and also changed the
7 provision about the overcharge -- about the
8 damages that can be assessed in overcharge
9 claims. And expressly in the HSTPA it said that
10 was -- that applied to prospective cases and to
11 cases that were already pending, so activities
12 that occurred before the HSTPA was passed.
13 In a case called Regina Metro v.
14 DHCR, the Court of Appeals limited the
15 retroactive application of those provisions and
16 especially did so to the extent the court found
17 that certain of those provisions would revive
18 claims that had been barred, that, you know, were
19 more than four years old at that point, and
20 claims that would increase liability.
21 So it was a very nuanced review of
22 the circumstances in which provisions that are
23 retroactive might violate the due process clause
24 of the federal Constitution, among other
25 provisions, and they determined that this law,
6716
1 that the law as we enacted it in 2019 did indeed
2 in certain respects, to the extent it applied
3 retroactively, violate that clause.
4 So what this bill does is two
5 things. First of all, it states the legislative
6 intent of this Legislature with respect to
7 overcharge claims and some of those provisions of
8 the HSTPA. The court in Regina Metro noted that
9 Part F did not have a legislative intent,
10 although there was legislative intent in other
11 parts of the HSTPA.
12 And that it also clarifies -- given
13 that Regina Metro left open a lot of questions
14 about how the law applies prospectively and other
15 matters, it clarifies how this Legislature
16 believes those ought to be interpreted.
17 But again, mostly leaving -- you
18 know, of course doing that within the constraints
19 put on by Regina Metro -- which, you know, was a
20 case of the highest court of the state
21 interpreting the Constitution -- where we are
22 trying to clarify other aspects so that, given
23 that the Regina Metro case knocked out certain
24 provisions, so courts don't have to fill in some
25 of those gaps themselves, and we are providing
6717
1 what we believe to be constitutionally firm
2 clarification of how this law -- how this part of
3 the law should work.
4 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
5 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
6 yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
8 continue to yield?
9 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
10 Madam President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR MARTINS: Senator Kavanagh,
14 I thank you for the explanation.
15 I did have opportunity to review the
16 Regina Metro case and the court's decision in the
17 Regina Metro case. Wouldn't you agree that the
18 Regina Metro case was really about the
19 retroactive application of computations in
20 overpayments of rent and whether or not the court
21 found them to be in violation of due process?
22 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
23 Madam President. Yes, they found very specific
24 provisions of Part F as written in the HSTPA to
25 violate the Constitution under substantive due
6718
1 process and some other provisions, and struck
2 those down. And again, in a very nuanced 20-page
3 analysis of under what circumstances things might
4 be infirm because they're retroactive and in
5 other circumstances where they're not
6 constitutionally infirm because they're
7 retroactive.
8 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
9 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
10 yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
12 continue to yield?
13 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
14 Madam President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR MARTINS: In fact, it was a
18 rather extensive decision -- probably, as you
19 said, somewhere in the mid-20s to upper 20s, and
20 the dissent was actually probably as long as that
21 as well.
22 And so, you know, the idea that how
23 we apply laws retroactively, sort of changing the
24 rules after the fact and then trying to apply it
25 backwards -- and the court found that you
6719
1 couldn't do that. Isn't that correct?
2 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
3 Madam President. The court -- I guess I'm not
4 sure what the -- I'm lost as to what the "it" was
5 in that question.
6 SENATOR MARTINS: I'll rephrase,
7 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
8 yield.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
10 continue to yield?
11 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Yes.
13 SENATOR MARTINS: So the Court of
14 Appeals decided, in the majority opinion, that
15 you can't apply something retroactively because
16 it's a violation of due process unless, unless
17 you can demonstrate that there was fraud. Isn't
18 that what the court decided?
19 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
20 Madam President, no.
21 Through you, Madam President, my --
22 first of all, the court did not find that things
23 cannot generally apply retroactively. We very
24 frequently create laws that provide provisions
25 that apply before the date we enact them. We're
6720
1 going to pass some tax bills later that --
2 programs and other things that will apply
3 retroactively to some date earlier because they
4 expired previously. So we very frequently pass
5 things that apply retroactively.
6 But the court found that certain
7 provisions of this bill -- and again, they
8 particularly focused on provisions that revived
9 certain claims against people that had been
10 time-barred before the HSTPA was passed. Meaning
11 there was a four-year lookback and now we were
12 saying the lookback should be six years. So they
13 were saying that certain things that fell in that
14 gap between four and six, which the HSTPA
15 purported to revive, they found that it was a
16 violation of the Constitution to revive those
17 particular claims in that circumstance.
18 And they also found that certain
19 provisions that imposed additional liability
20 retroactively -- again, in that very
21 fact-specific analysis -- were also barred.
22 The question of fraud has always
23 been an element of this law. The four-year
24 lookback said you could not look back more than
25 four years unless it was necessary to
6721
1 demonstrate -- unless there was some evidence of
2 fraud. The HSTPA said you couldn't look back
3 past six years unless there was evidence of
4 fraud.
5 So both before HSTPA and after HSTPA
6 you could look back before that -- the number of
7 years that was relevant if there was some
8 evidence that there was fraud. So I don't think
9 the court changed that fundamental principle in
10 Regina Metro.
11 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
12 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
13 yield.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
15 continue to yield?
16 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
17 Madam President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR MARTINS: So as you
21 mentioned, HCR required a four-year lookback, and
22 the Housing Stability and Tenant Protection Act
23 actually went back six years. So the court found
24 that those two years that went beyond the four
25 years violated due process and therefore could
6722
1 not be enforced.
2 Is that the purpose of this bill, to
3 overcome that due process impediment?
4 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
5 Madam President, no. We -- I -- you know, I may
6 have -- were you on the Court of Appeals at that
7 time, perhaps I would have sided with the dissent
8 or perhaps I would have sided with the majority.
9 I suspect I would have sided with the dissent.
10 But we are not trying to, you know,
11 overturn Regina Metro, we are just trying to
12 clarify the law within the confines of the
13 Constitution as interpreted by Regina Metro.
14 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
15 through you, if the sponsor will continue to
16 yield.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
18 continue to yield?
19 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
20 Madam President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR MARTINS: So to clarify
24 Regina Metro. You know, my reading of the bill
25 is that -- and now it poses a requirement that
6723
1 the property owner has to retain records and has
2 to be responsible for providing those records,
3 and allows for it going back further than those
4 four years.
5 Is that how you intended to address
6 the court's ruling in Regina Metro?
7 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
8 Madam President. Again, I'm not sure which
9 provision of this bill my colleague is referring
10 to.
11 But, first of all, the -- you know,
12 the court in Regina Metro did not say that a
13 six-year lookback was problematic in general. It
14 just says as applied to cases, to activities that
15 had occurred before the effective date in June of
16 2019, it could not be applied retroactively to
17 things that had happened more than four years ago
18 at that point -- unless, again, the fraud
19 exception that was in place before HSTPA could be
20 invoked.
21 So it basically said that as applied
22 retroactively to activities before the HSTPA,
23 that extra two years was problematic.
24 And it also -- it did not, as a
25 general matter, say you could not require records
6724
1 to be kept more than four years. It did make it
2 clear that a property owner's liability for
3 things that happened before June of 2015 might be
4 limited as a result of the fact that the court
5 felt that that would violate substantive due
6 process.
7 But again, if there's a provision
8 here that my colleagues reads that way, be happy
9 to discuss it.
10 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
11 through you, if the Senator would continue to
12 yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
14 Kavanagh, do you continue to yield?
15 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes, I do,
16 Madam President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
18 Senator yields.
19 SENATOR MARTINS: I appreciate it,
20 Senator.
21 Just to perhaps help us through
22 this, can you tell us what -- since you've
23 mentioned that the bill was written as a way of
24 addressing the court's decision in Regina Metro,
25 tell us in what way you, as the sponsor of this
6725
1 bill, drafted this to address whatever concerns
2 you had from the court's decision.
3 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
4 Madam President. Again, as I mentioned, the
5 court expressly noted that there was no
6 legislative intent in Part F of the HSTPA,
7 although there was legislative intent specified
8 in other parts of the HSTPA.
9 So this does have, first, a section
10 of legislative findings so that any court that is
11 reviewing and -- you know, in a case where the
12 opinion of the Legislature is relevant and the
13 findings of those is irrelevant, they would have
14 that before them.
15 So it first of all expresses concern
16 about the fact that current rents may be very --
17 may be excessive, based on some activities that
18 occurred in the past. It expresses a public
19 policy to the extent rents may be high now
20 because of activities that have occurred in the
21 past, that -- a preference that those be reduced.
22 And it basically expresses an
23 opinion about a finding, really, that we want to
24 make sure that the prospective application of
25 this law is in place to encourage registration.
6726
1 Because as many people in this room know,
2 rent-stabilized properties are supposed to be
3 registered. And before HSTPA and after, there
4 have been always been downsides to not
5 registering.
6 But the effect of having penalties
7 for not registering is -- would be such that they
8 might be encouraged to register prospectively,
9 and that's a desirable thing.
10 And, you know, there are a few other
11 legislative findings in this, including the fact
12 that we generally think that registration
13 statements are the best basis for determining
14 legal rents in most circumstances.
15 So it -- again, it lays out those
16 findings and then it has various clarifications
17 about how rents -- the current legal rent ought
18 to be calculated. But again, prospectively, not
19 in a way that looks back and penalizes the
20 landlord for calculations they might have made
21 and rents they might have charged more than four
22 years before the HSTPA was passed.
23 And it has various provisions about
24 record-keeping, as my colleague mentioned, there
25 were certain circumstances in which
6727
1 requirements -- again, retroactive requirements
2 of record-keeping were questioned by the court,
3 so it makes it clear that certain provisions of
4 law that were in place then, and variations of
5 those are in place now -- that those don't
6 expressly authorize the destruction of records.
7 It makes it clear that if records
8 have been destroyed by virtue of being proper --
9 if they're properly destroyed by virtue of a unit
10 being properly registered --
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Excuse me,
12 can we have some quiet. Thank you.
13 SENATOR KAVANAGH: If they've been
14 destroyed properly, they were permitted to be
15 destroyed by virtue of a unit having been
16 properly registered, then that might be
17 acceptable.
18 But if, again, it is not properly
19 registered, they may not -- that it should not be
20 assumed that they were properly destroyed.
21 And again, I'm summarizing because
22 obviously this is some dense text and there are
23 many other provisions that we're attempting to
24 clarify here. But this text has been available,
25 and we did have an opportunity to discuss this
6728
1 about a month ago when this bill came out of the
2 Housing Committee.
3 SENATOR MARTINS: I appreciate
4 that.
5 Madam President, through you, if the
6 Senator will continue to yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
8 continue to yield?
9 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
10 Madam President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
12 Senator yields.
13 SENATOR MARTINS: And
14 Senator Kavanagh, I thank you for that, because
15 that really is at the crux I think of our
16 discussion here. It's the application of that
17 retroactive lookback and the burden shift that
18 you propose in your bill on an owner to have to
19 be responsible for records beyond that four-year
20 lookback period.
21 And the consequence of their not
22 being able to produce those records would
23 require -- or at least from your bill, the one we
24 have before us, have a presumption of fraud.
25 Isn't that what this bill would do? If the
6729
1 landlord cannot produce records that go back
2 beyond those four years.
3 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
4 Madam President, absolutely not. There's
5 certainly no provision I would read in this bill
6 that creates a presumption of fraud or anything
7 remotely like that. If there is a provision here
8 that my colleague thinks would do that, I'd be
9 happy to talk about it.
10 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
11 through you. What is the consequence after the
12 four years --
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Are you
14 asking if the Senator will continue to yield?
15 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you, if
16 the Senator would yield. Thank you.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
18 Kavanagh, do you yield?
19 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
20 Madam President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
22 Senator yields.
23 SENATOR MARTINS: So,
24 Senator Kavanagh, what is the consequence for --
25 and you referenced it just a few moments ago --
6730
1 for an owner for recordkeeping for a period
2 within which -- beyond the four-year lookback?
3 What's the consequence under your bill?
4 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
5 Madam President, the bill -- you know, if you're
6 in a highly regulated business, there are various
7 reasons why one might keep records and benefits
8 of keeping records, including circumstances in
9 which your activities might be litigated.
10 The -- this bill does not have --
11 does not impose any specific or strong
12 consequence of not having records. It does make
13 it clear that certain provisions of law, like
14 subdivision (g) of Section 26-516 of the
15 Administrative Code or Section 2523.7 of the
16 Rent Stabilization Code, those provisions
17 shouldn't be construed as permitting records to
18 be destroyed.
19 But again, if one -- you know, if
20 one is -- you know, this bill does not create
21 some new penalties for destroying records, and it
22 certainly does not create presumptions of fraud
23 where someone might not otherwise think there's
24 fraud.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
6731
1 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
2 yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
4 continue to yield?
5 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
6 Madam President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR MARTINS: Just so we're
10 creating a record, if a landlord does not have
11 records beyond the four-year lookback period that
12 HCR required, which was referenced in the
13 Regina Metro action, in the court's decision, how
14 would your bill treat the lack of record or the
15 inability of a landlord to produce records beyond
16 those four years?
17 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
18 Madam President. The bill does not spell out all
19 the implications of not having records.
20 This bill does not replace the
21 language of Part F of the HSTPA or the
22 regulations of HCR, the agency that enforces
23 this. It merely expresses certain provisions to
24 clarify what Part F may or may not require with
25 respect to records.
6732
1 Again, if I were in a situation
2 where the question of whether I've committed
3 fraud might be relevant to my defense of an
4 overcharge claim, I might choose to keep certain
5 records beyond the minimum required. But the
6 bill doesn't -- the bill doesn't impose new
7 recordkeeping requirements.
8 It does specify that certain laws
9 that someone might interpret to affirmatively
10 permit the destruction of records does not do so.
11 And I'm just giving that as an example of one of
12 the many things this bill does.
13 But -- and again I would note that
14 just for anybody who might be confused, you know,
15 the hordes of people that are watching at home,
16 no doubt, and trying to learn about the effect of
17 HSTPA's Part F -- because it's a, you know, hot
18 topic for all of us. But the -- I would just
19 note that the current law is a six-year lookback.
20 This case -- these clarifications are mostly
21 about the difference between four years and six
22 years as it applied in June of 2019.
23 So we're mostly talking about
24 records that would have been between 2013 and
25 2015, at this point, as being relevant here,
6733
1 because the -- you know, the -- on a prospective
2 basis, for activities that occurred after
3 June 2019 when HSTPA was passed, we're now four
4 years hence. So, you know, that -- the notion
5 that six years, the primary lookback period, has
6 been in place now for four years.
7 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
8 Madam President, through you, if the
9 sponsor would continue to yield.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
11 continue to yield?
12 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
13 Madam President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR MARTINS: So 2013 to 2015,
17 there's a claim of overpayment of rent brought by
18 tenants in a rent-stabilized building for that
19 period. The landlord does not have those records
20 because when the HSTPA was passed in 2019, the
21 lookback was four years. So if they're not able
22 to produce records between 2013 and 2015, what is
23 the effect for a landlord who cannot produce
24 records and cannot provide any proof as to how
25 those records were disposed of?
6734
1 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
2 Madam President. I mean, the actual effect of
3 that would be very fact-specific. It would
4 depend on what the basis is of -- I presume we're
5 talking about an overcharge case, first of all,
6 which is what Part F is about. But it would
7 depend on the basis on which the tenant was
8 asserting there was an overcharge.
9 You know, for example, there was a
10 case called Roberts which found that for many
11 years, HCR had been misinterpreting the law and
12 permitting deregulation where it was not
13 permitted. This was discussed extensively in
14 Regina Metro, as I'm sure my colleague knows.
15 But there was not much of an indication that
16 somebody was committing fraud if it was an
17 overcharge based on the Roberts decision, because
18 the Roberts decision was the law as interpreted
19 by HCR.
20 But I suppose that if we're --
21 before the HSTPA there was a four-year lookback,
22 and the way to get beyond four years was for --
23 for the petitioner, usually the tenant, to
24 demonstrate that there was some indication of
25 fraud. So I suppose if the tenant, the
6735
1 petitioner, had some indication of fraud that
2 they were presenting in order to get back into
3 that two-year period that exceeded the four
4 years, the landlord might be at some disadvantage
5 in demonstrating that in fact fraud had not
6 occurred, because they don't have records.
7 But again, the burden before the
8 HSTPA to get beyond four years was to provide
9 some indication of fraud. So absent an
10 indication of fraud, it would presumably have
11 very little effect on the landlord.
12 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
13 Senator.
14 If the sponsor could continue to
15 yield.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
17 continue to yield?
18 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
19 Madam President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The sponsor
21 yields.
22 SENATOR MARTINS: So I appreciate
23 that.
24 So if there is the burden on the
25 tenant prior to the HSTPA to demonstrate fraud as
6736
1 a means of getting beyond the four-year lookback,
2 we can agree that that was the case back then
3 prior to the HSTPA, can't we?
4 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
5 Madam President, I'll take that as a question and
6 say yes.
7 SENATOR MARTINS: The inflection --
8 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yeah, I
9 didn't -- I --
10 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Madam President,
11 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
12 yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
14 continue to yield?
15 (Pause.)
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
17 Kavanagh, do you yield?
18 SENATOR KAVANAGH: I'm sorry, yes,
19 I do yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
21 Senator yields.
22 SENATOR MARTINS: I appreciate
23 that, Senator.
24 So after the HSTPA and I guess this
25 bill before us, does the burden with regard to
6737
1 proving or disproving fraud shift not to the --
2 from the tenant to the landlord if they're not
3 able to produce records?
4 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Madam President,
5 I don't think there's anything in this bill that
6 would have that effect, no. As it was, a court
7 could a -- no, I mean, let me be simpler. I do
8 not believe there's anything in this bill. This
9 bill is mostly about the prospective application
10 of Part F of the HSTPA. And it's about what the
11 rent might be now.
12 Before the HSTPA it was settled that
13 it was a four-year lookback, and to get beyond
14 the four-year lookback, there needed to be some
15 indication of fraud. The HSTPA made that a
16 six-year lookback, and before -- and to get
17 beyond six years, there had to be some indication
18 of fraud. So fraud was an element in both cases.
19 And again, this bill is mostly about
20 what to do with rents going forward, not the
21 kinds of penalties and the treble -- like under
22 HSTPA, it dramatically increased your liability
23 of damages if you had overcharged in the past.
24 Because if those overcharges have occurred, you
25 either get treble damages -- again, pre-HSTPA,
6738
1 for two years of overcharges; HSTPA made it four
2 years of treble damages.
3 So it was a significant -- it would
4 have a significant impact on a landlord
5 retroactively, the provisions of Part F. Regina
6 Metro said largely those retroactive impacts
7 cannot -- could not be imposed by the HSTPA.
8 And, you know, in a lot of that -- you know, they
9 -- the courts, basically every aspect of HSTPA
10 and most aspects of the rent laws have been
11 challenged in court. But they found this
12 particular provision we couldn't do that kind of
13 retroactive effect.
14 So largely, retroactive effects here
15 are -- the retroactive effects of that law have
16 been largely rendered invalid. This bill is
17 primarily about the prospective effect, how do
18 you decide the rent going forward based on past
19 activity.
20 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
21 through you. So what would the impact be --
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
23 Martins, are you asking the sponsor to yield?
24 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you, if
25 the sponsor would continue to yield.
6739
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Will the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR KAVANAGH: I do indeed,
4 Madam President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
8 What would the impact be -- or what
9 would the effect be on a landlord who does not
10 have records, in the event that there is an
11 action brought for overpayment of rent?
12 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
13 Madam President. I assume my colleague means
14 records that they're not legally required to
15 keep, that go beyond -- I mean, landlords are
16 required under various provisions of law to keep
17 records regarding rent. If they're registering
18 their apartment, then the rent registration
19 itself, which is an annual requirement which we
20 might perhaps talk about in a subsequent bill
21 today -- but that constitutes a record of what
22 the rent was at various times.
23 But landlords are required to keep
24 records. And if they do not keep records,
25 they're required to keep -- presumably either the
6740
1 courts or HCR adjudicating a rent claim, you
2 know, will not look favorably upon them. If they
3 don't have records that they're not required to
4 keep, it presumably might diminish their ability
5 to assert certain defenses when a petitioner
6 brings a claim.
7 But because again the -- in both
8 pre-HSTPA and post-HSTPA there is this question
9 of whether fraud allows you to get back past the
10 lookback number. And the lookback number changed
11 from four to six in the HSTPA, but in either case
12 it might be prudent to have records that show --
13 that allow you to thoroughly demonstrate that
14 there was no fraud. But of course there would
15 have to be some reason to think there's fraud
16 before you have to demonstrate that.
17 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
18 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
19 yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
21 Martins, your time has expired. This will be
22 your final question.
23 SENATOR MARTINS: It has expired.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Yes.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: Oh. Where did
6741
1 the time go, Senator.
2 (Laughter.)
3 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Allow me to
4 yield and express my disappointment that
5 Senator Martins' time has expired.
6 (Laughter.)
7 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
8 thank you.
9 Senator Kavanagh, we'll continue
10 this again at a different time. But I'm sure one
11 or more of my colleagues may have some additional
12 questions for you.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
14 Palumbo, why do you rise?
15 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
16 Madam President. Would the sponsor yield for a
17 few questions.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
19 Kavanagh, do you yield?
20 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
21 Madam President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you, Brian.
25 Nice to see you.
6742
1 We've been talking about this for
2 quite some time. Only a half-hour, like you
3 said, goes so quickly. And a lot of those
4 questions that I was going to address were
5 discussed, but I just want to follow up a little
6 bit on the section regarding I guess recapture.
7 Let me find that little -- what I was looking to
8 see.
9 Can you explain to me, in the event
10 that a unit was deregulated, is there anything in
11 this legislation that would actually allow you to
12 recapture into the rent regulation a unit that
13 was deregulated at some point?
14 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
15 Madam President. For clarification -- I guess
16 I'm asking my colleague to yield to clarify his
17 own question. But does he mean a bona fide legal
18 deregulation?
19 SENATOR PALUMBO: Certainly I'll
20 respond to that, thank you. And Madam President,
21 I certainly will yield.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Are you
23 asking the sponsor to yield?
24 SENATOR PALUMBO: Yes. Would
25 the -- I thought he was asking me. But yes,
6743
1 would the sponsor continue to yield.
2 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
3 Madam President.
4 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you. I'll
5 clarify that question.
6 Either/or. Because I know obviously
7 there are kind of two categories that we look at,
8 I guess, right, one that's fraudulently
9 deregulated -- and I believe is what's addressed
10 in this bill -- and ones that aren't, that are
11 done obviously lawfully.
12 So can you explain to me the
13 distinction between those two?
14 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
15 Madam President. I'd just first of all note that
16 the bill is -- relates to overcharges, and there
17 could be a variety of circumstances in which
18 somebody could be accused of an overcharge, where
19 they did not assert that it was deregulated, they
20 just charged more than the legal rent, or perhaps
21 they claim to have done an individual apartment
22 improvement that allowed them to raise the legal
23 rent but they had not in fact done so.
24 So there are a number of ways that
25 overcharge claims have come up in the past.
6744
1 This bill doesn't change the
2 fundamental -- you know -- actually, let me --
3 I'm not aware of any particular way this bill
4 changes the conditions and circumstances in which
5 you could be accused of -- effectively accused of
6 an overcharge, either through deregulation or
7 through other purpose.
8 And again, Regina Metro is the
9 defining law on whether you -- whether a
10 retroactive application of any of the provisions
11 that are on the books through Part F would be
12 relevant to that situation.
13 SENATOR PALUMBO: Would the sponsor
14 continue to yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
16 continue to yield?
17 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
18 Madam President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
20 sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
22 Senator.
23 And with respect to rehabilitation
24 and rebuilding some of these units, does this
25 still allow for certain units, in the event that
6745
1 they are rehabilitated units, that they're exempt
2 from rent regulation, in the event you put money
3 into the unit or the building?
4 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
5 Madam President. I'm going to suggest to my
6 colleague that he may be referring -- he may be
7 asking about provisions that are in Bill 2980C,
8 which is on the agenda today.
9 This bill does not affect the
10 circumstances in which someone can rehabilitate a
11 rental unit in any particular way. Although I
12 suppose given that it -- if somebody were being
13 accused of overcharge related to rehabilitation,
14 I suppose it could -- it could be relevant in
15 some general way.
16 But we do have another bill on the
17 agenda that has provisions specifically about
18 rehabilitation.
19 SENATOR PALUMBO: Will the sponsor
20 continue to yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
24 Madam President.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
6746
1 sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
3 Senator.
4 And you know what, I may have been
5 conflating the two, because there are a lot of
6 similarities between it. So let me ask you,
7 then -- let's go back to that Regina case, if we
8 may. And I do have the case in front of me.
9 And there was -- and I'll read from
10 this one page, I guess it's from the original
11 side, I guess this is about page 385, that the
12 court held, with respect to the United States
13 Supreme Court -- as the Supreme Court has
14 observed, retroactive legislation that reaches
15 "particularly far" into the past and that imposes
16 liability of a high magnitude relative to
17 impacted parties' conduct raises "substantial
18 questions of fairness," citing Eastern
19 Enterprises, from the U.S. Supreme Court.
20 And again, in the retroactivity
21 context, a rational justification is one
22 commensurate with a degree of disruption to
23 settled substantial rights. In this instance,
24 that standard has not been met.
25 And so when I read that and then I
6747
1 compared that to this bill that's currently
2 before us, it seemed as though that -- and as you
3 mentioned earlier, to an extent that the
4 legislative intent is what you were intending to
5 address. Because it seemed that it may have been
6 a little silent.
7 So when you crafted this bill, was
8 your intention to I guess clarify for the
9 Court of Appeals and future courts that the
10 retroactive application could be expanded and
11 could go -- and records could be reviewed prior
12 to a four-year lookback period? Or prior to, I'm
13 sorry, 2019. Excuse me.
14 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
15 Madam President, no. The bill in various places
16 expressly says that we're not talking about -- in
17 most of the provisions we're not talking about
18 retroactive application. It repeatedly says
19 we're talking about the prospective application
20 of various provisions of the HSTPA.
21 And again, if there is any language
22 in this bill that my colleague believes would
23 impose a retroactive thing that might -- a
24 retroactive effect that might violate the U.S.
25 Constitution, you know, that's obviously on some
6748
1 level not something for us to decide in this
2 room. You know, courts will decide whether what
3 we do today is constitutional, but there's no
4 intention to do anything that violates the
5 constitutional provisions as interpreted by
6 Regina Metro.
7 SENATOR PALUMBO: Will the sponsor
8 continue to yield.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
10 continue to yield?
11 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
12 Madam President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR PALUMBO: Now, I just have
16 from my notes, if I may, Senator, that this bill
17 requires owners claiming exemption from
18 regulation -- I guess this went to what we were
19 just discussing a minute ago -- due to
20 substantial rehabilitation to now first file for
21 approval with the Division of Housing, with DHCR.
22 Is that -- is that in this bill?
23 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
24 Madam President. That is not in this bill. That
25 does sound suspiciously like a provision that is
6749
1 in S2980, although that of course is not relevant
2 to this debate before us.
3 SENATOR PALUMBO: Very good. Thank
4 you.
5 Will the sponsor continue to yield?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Will the
7 sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
9 Madam President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
13 Madam President.
14 I guess the last area that I'd just
15 like to discuss, if we may, regarding inheritance
16 to family members and trusts. Could you describe
17 to me what this bill provides in that regard as
18 far as any expansion, or if it addresses at all
19 the ability for a rent-regulated home to be
20 passed down.
21 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
22 Madam President. Again, the bill is before us
23 here and there's no provision here that -- I
24 mean, I could -- it's three pages, single-spaced,
25 but I don't believe there's any provision that
6750
1 would -- there's certainly no provision that
2 directly changes the law. I'm not sure if
3 there's some provision that my colleague thinks
4 might be relevant to that, but I'm not aware of
5 any.
6 SENATOR PALUMBO: I think I have
7 it, Senator. I think I have it. Somebody had
8 the wrong number on -- the wrong bill number, I
9 think, on my note.
10 Would the sponsor continue to yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
12 continue to yield?
13 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
14 Madam President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
18 Senator. And thank you for your patience.
19 The area that I wanted to talk about
20 was combining units. Is that addressed in this
21 bill?
22 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
23 Madam President, that is also something that is
24 dealt with in S2980 and not in this bill.
25 SENATOR PALUMBO: 2980, that's why
6751
1 I was -- I apologize. That was my problem, I had
2 43.
3 Would the sponsor continue to yield.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
5 continue to yield?
6 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
7 Madam President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR PALUMBO: Got it. (Pause.)
11 So this is the retroactivity
12 question, please, Senator. And so -- so this was
13 just clarified for me. So if someone inherits a
14 property as a landlord, do they ultimately
15 inherit, for example, the lookback period from
16 the prior owner if it were, say, to pass through
17 a trust or to a subsequent landlord? I had it
18 mixed up. It's not the tenant, it's the landlord
19 itself.
20 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
21 Madam President. That's a presumably somewhat
22 complicated question of law, and there's no
23 provision of this bill that I'm aware of that
24 addresses that one way or the other.
25 SENATOR PALUMBO: Senator Kavanagh,
6752
1 thank you very much.
2 On the bill, please.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
4 Palumbo on the bill.
5 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
6 Madam President.
7 And I'm sure we're going to be
8 talking about the next bill that lands in our
9 lap. And I just have a few comments -- that's
10 quite similar to this one. But I do have a few
11 comments about the nature of this bill and its
12 effect on generally the housing market.
13 So unfortunately, housing is very
14 expensive in New York City for a number of
15 reasons. And I think the overwhelming majority
16 of those reasons come out of this building.
17 Rents are high because it's
18 expensive to live. And landlords, who I think to
19 an extent have been villainized, they need to
20 be -- they need to survive as well. Because
21 obviously they need to put money into their
22 housing units to make them comfortable and nice
23 and safe for the tenants. And the more that we
24 keep piling on the landlord's ability to manage
25 properties fairly -- I understand, if there's
6753
1 fraud, I have absolutely no problem with that,
2 they need to pay treble damages, lookback, all of
3 that. That's absolutely appropriate,
4 100 percent.
5 But when you think about the fact
6 that now you're going to have a lot of additional
7 onerous burdens on our property owners -- the
8 ability to refinance, you've got lookback
9 periods, you do have what I believe was an
10 expansion of fraud based on the discussion with
11 my colleague in the previous debate.
12 So these sort of burdens, although
13 it seems as though they're being placed on the
14 landlord, the additional recordkeeping
15 requirements -- and I get it. There does need to
16 be reasonable regulation. But when we keep
17 pushing further down the road, it causes a --
18 almost a compression factor, I would call it,
19 where that burden that the landlords are
20 shouldering makes housing suffer. And housing
21 becomes less available because folks don't want
22 to invest. And we have these people -- yes, they
23 may be uber-millionaires, extremely wealthy
24 people, but that's who can afford to build
25 buildings in New York City and in many areas of
6754
1 New York.
2 So we need to not overregulate. We
3 need to not continue to push them out of this
4 market, because they will go elsewhere. They
5 need to survive.
6 And I understand we need to have
7 some affordable housing. That's a crisis.
8 Madam President, as you may recall, we passed
9 through this body and four of the five eastern
10 towns on Long Island passed a referendum for an
11 the affordable housing community preservation
12 fund, a community housing fund that would
13 ultimately generate money to help folks stay on
14 the East End of Long Island. So I do get it.
15 But unfortunately, I believe this
16 bill is overly expansive. And in response to the
17 Regina case, our Court of Appeals pretty clearly
18 laid out the standard. And this direct response
19 to try and now couch what we believe is
20 legislative intent to maybe help the courts
21 better decide on -- in tenants' favor, you have
22 to do it within the constitutional guidelines.
23 And this goes too far.
24 As such, I'll be voting no, and I
25 urge my colleagues to do the same.
6755
1 Thank you.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Thank you,
3 Senator Palumbo.
4 Senator Helming, why do you rise?
5 SENATOR HELMING: Because it feels
6 good to stretch.
7 (Laughter.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:
9 Understood. Understood.
10 SENATOR HELMING: No, no, no.
11 Madam President, on the bill. Thank you.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
13 Helming on the bill.
14 SENATOR HELMING: On the bill.
15 Before I start on the bill, I wanted
16 to take a moment -- I heard one of my colleagues
17 earlier note that it was Senator Breslin's
18 birthday, so I wanted to extended happiest of
19 birthdays. I'm sure Evan will carry that message
20 to him.
21 (Applause.)
22 SENATOR HELMING: And on the bill,
23 I really wanted to take a moment and compliment
24 the bill's sponsor. I'm the ranking member of
25 Housing. I've been on that committee I think
6756
1 four years now. Sometimes it feels like 40 years
2 long.
3 It's really -- it's a complex
4 matter, it really and truly is. And it impacts
5 all of us. I don't care if you're in New York
6 City or you're out in my rural areas, it's
7 impacting all of us and we all know we need to do
8 something to address the housing crisis, the
9 shortage that faces all of us.
10 And during our debates and our
11 discussions in committee, I can get kind of
12 long-winded, I dive down into the details. And I
13 just want to thank Senator Kavanagh, because he
14 is what I would call a true statesman. He is
15 always willing to take the time to explain
16 things, to answer questions, to get back to me
17 with respect. And I truly appreciate that,
18 Senator Kavanagh. I think we could all use a
19 little more of that, right, in this environment.
20 So thank you.
21 So after listening to the
22 discussions in committee, listening to the
23 debates here on the floor and the questions that
24 were raised, it's my feeling -- and after talking
25 to people who are impacted by this -- that this
6757
1 legislation does exactly what Senator Palumbo
2 says, it drives up costs. And it further burdens
3 the owners of stabilized housing and all property
4 owners.
5 The changes proposed in this
6 legislation are going to increase the cost of
7 recordkeeping and compliance. They're going to
8 increase the cost of insurance to cover the risk
9 of litigation. And I believe it truly has the
10 potential to jeopardize financing opportunities
11 for new housing. This legislation will make it
12 that much more difficult to maintain the
13 stabilized housing stock that we do have.
14 It's going to make it that much more
15 difficult to attract new prospective investors.
16 Just think about it for a moment. What
17 prospective investor or owner would want to
18 purchase a rent-regulated property when this
19 body, through this legislation, improperly and
20 unconstitutionally imposes retroactive
21 application of rent methods?
22 I feel very strongly that rather
23 than passing this legislation that will
24 jeopardize the future investment of stabilized
25 housing, and strips away the constitutional
6758
1 rights of due process, we should be working with
2 our property owners in every single part of this
3 state to really bring more housing that's
4 affordable to more people online. That should be
5 our priority.
6 And frankly, Madam President, I
7 heard the comment made earlier about that "We are
8 in the Majority, we get to decide which
9 legislation comes to the floor and gets passed."
10 This wouldn't have been my priority to bring to
11 the floor, and I'll be voting no.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Thank you,
13 Senator Helming.
14 Are there any other Senators wishing
15 to be heard?
16 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
17 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
18 Read the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
25 Kavanagh to explain his vote.
6759
1 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Thank you,
2 Madam President.
3 First of all, I'd be remiss if I did
4 not return the compliment. It's been a pleasure
5 to work with the ranker on this committee,
6 Senator Helming. We do have very -- and the
7 other members of the committee, from both sides
8 of the aisle.
9 We do have very robust discussions
10 in committee as many -- we've moved nearly
11 80 bills through the Housing Committee this year,
12 and it's been a very good opportunity to discuss
13 those and try to, you know, address the many
14 needs of homeowners and renters and property
15 owners throughout the state.
16 Just to say, again, if you review
17 the conversation we've had today, there really is
18 no instance where anyone has pointed out a
19 specific provision of this bill that would create
20 the kind of retroactivity that Regina Metro v.
21 DHCR said was concerning.
22 It is the case that the HSTPA did
23 change the parameters within which one needs to
24 keep records, and also created six years as the
25 sort of basic lookback, rather than four years.
6760
1 But that law has been on the books for four years
2 now, so that has been the law prospectively since
3 then.
4 This bill is intended to clarify in
5 certain ways the prospective application of that
6 law, and we have no reason to think, having our
7 counsel and having reviewed it ourselves, we have
8 no reason to think that there's anything
9 constitutionally problematic about this bill.
10 And in addition, it won't really add
11 new recordkeeping requirements per the --
12 relative to the HSTPA, because again that law has
13 been on the books for four years.
14 And with that, I vote aye.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
16 Kavanagh to be recorded in the affirmative.
17 Senator Borrello to explain his
18 vote.
19 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
20 Madam President.
21 This is my first year on the
22 Housing Committee, and I want to echo the
23 sentiments of Senator Helming that
24 Senator Kavanagh has an amazing depth of
25 knowledge and is very cautious and informed.
6761
1 But the overall issue I see is that
2 we are truly doing what Senator Palumbo said. We
3 are going to drive these folks out. And what
4 really concerns me is that we're going to be left
5 with just people that can afford to own their own
6 private homes, their own private property, and
7 then government housing.
8 And what does government housing
9 look like? Well, it's NYCHA. And one thing I
10 have heard from my colleagues in New York City is
11 NYCHA is really bad. In fact, if I listen to
12 them, I think it's run by Satan himself.
13 So if we're going to drive out the
14 private, for-profit property owners that are
15 actually doing good things to have good property,
16 and leave it to government bureaucrats who really
17 don't have any skin in the game, you're going to
18 have more NYCHAs. You're going to have more
19 public housing that quite frankly, from what I'm
20 told, isn't meeting standards time and time
21 again. Because I've seen many types of attempts
22 by this body to try to rein in NYCHA somehow, and
23 apparently it's failing.
24 So let's not drive out the folks
25 that are actually providing good quality housing.
6762
1 Just because somebody else owns it and rents it
2 does not make them bad people.
3 So I vote no.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
5 Borrello to be recorded in the negative.
6 Announce the results -- oh, sorry.
7 Senator Krueger to explain her vote.
8 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you very
9 much.
10 I want to thank everyone for this
11 debate. I want to particularly Senator Kavanagh
12 for his commitment to complex and detailed bills.
13 And I just want to point out, this
14 is about people who are committing fraud and
15 driving up rents higher than they're legally
16 allowed to. So when we talk about good people
17 running buildings, I would love to have every
18 building run by a landlord who understands the
19 law, follows the law, and doesn't fraudulently
20 drive up rents.
21 This bill will help ensure that that
22 doesn't happen. I believe that's in everyone's
23 best interests, particularly those landlords who
24 are following the law -- which is the majority of
25 them. Because if they see that others don't have
6763
1 to follow the law and get away with it, what's
2 their motivation to color within the lines and to
3 follow the law?
4 So I want to thank Senator Kavanagh.
5 I certainly proudly support this bill. And I
6 will tell you, many of these stories are actually
7 going on in my district, where people learn that
8 they are paying far more rent than they were
9 legally supposed to, they don't learn it easily
10 or quickly, they end up in court because they
11 need to. They may be driven out of the homes
12 they have because they can't afford the illegally
13 increased rents. And this kind of legislation I
14 believe is particularly important to protect the
15 too-minimal stock of affordable rent regulated
16 housing that we have in this state.
17 So I am very happy to vote yes,
18 Madam President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
20 Krueger to be recorded in the affirmative.
21 Senator Martins to explain his vote.
22 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
23 Madam President.
24 What this bill does is impose an
25 unfair retroactive application of document
6764
1 retention on landlords beyond that which they
2 would have to do. I think we would all agree
3 that if someone asked us to go back and apply a
4 different tax rate to our income taxes from
5 10 years ago, and we held -- and we had an
6 obligation to hold on to our tax records, I think
7 we all agree, for seven years and it went beyond
8 that, that we wouldn't expect to have to
9 demonstrate that we didn't have those documents
10 for any reason, they were destroyed in the
11 regular course of our own personal lives.
12 But to put an obligation on a
13 landlord for a period beyond which they were
14 required to hold on to records, and then to have
15 a default presumption be that they did something
16 wrong, I think is wrong.
17 Now, if we're talking about doing
18 things prospectively, then that's fine. This
19 body certainly has the ability to apply
20 prospective laws. But to apply and change the
21 law retroactively and to hold people to a
22 different standard than they had otherwise, is
23 wrong.
24 For that reason, I vote no.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
6765
1 Martins to be recorded in the negative.
2 Announce the results.
3 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
4 Calendar 746, those Senators voting in the
5 negative are Senators Ashby, Borrello,
6 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Felder, Gallivan, Griffo,
7 Helming, Mannion, Martinez, Martins, Mattera,
8 Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads,
9 Rolison, Scarcella-Spanton, Stec, Tedisco,
10 Walczyk, Weber and Weik.
11 Ayes, 39. Nays, 24.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
13 is passed.
14 Senator Gianaris.
15 SENATOR GIANARIS: Madam President,
16 at this time we're going to -- just to give my
17 colleagues a sense of schedule, we're going to
18 break for brief party conferences, from there go
19 to a Rules Committee meeting, take up the
20 supplemental calendar, which will hopefully be
21 the final one for the session, and then proceed
22 with the six bills that still remain on debate.
23 So at this time can we call an
24 immediate meeting of the Democratic Conference in
25 Room 332 and a Rules Committee meeting for 7:45,
6766
1 and then recognize Senator Palumbo, please.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
3 Palumbo.
4 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
5 Madam President. There will be an immediate
6 Republican conference in Room 315 of the Capitol.
7 Thank you.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: There will
9 be an immediate meeting of each of the party
10 conferences.
11 The Senate stands at ease.
12 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease
13 at 7:18 p.m.)
14 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at
15 8:30 p.m.)
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
17 Senate will return to order.
18 Senator Gianaris.
19 SENATOR GIANARIS: Madam President,
20 we're going to start by taking up a resolution
21 that we did not take up earlier today.
22 So we'll begin with previously
23 adopted Resolution 1368, by Senator Hinchey, read
24 its title, and recognize Senator Hinchey to
25 briefly speak on this resolution.
6767
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
2 Secretary will read.
3 THE SECRETARY: Resolution 1368, by
4 Senator Hinchey, mourning the death of
5 Karl Berger, internationally renowned
6 master musician, composer, and educator.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
8 Hinchey on the resolution.
9 SENATOR HINCHEY: Thank you,
10 Madam President.
11 On Easter Sunday of this year, the
12 world lost a true visionary. Karl Berger passed
13 away at the age of 88 years old, an
14 internationally renowned master musician, Karl
15 pioneered creative music, a new combination of
16 free jazz, world music, and modern classical.
17 He began playing classical piano at
18 10 years old and started focusing on jazz at just
19 14. With a double Ph.D. in philosophy and music,
20 he founded the Creative Music Studio in 1971 in
21 Woodstock, with his longtime partner Ingrid
22 Sertso and jazz legend Ornette Coleman.
23 His teachings emphasized
24 improvisation and his concept of an attentive
25 collaborative music mind when playing. He often
6768
1 said, "It's not what you play, but how you play."
2 He worked with internationally known
3 musicians from jazz and other traditions, and
4 worked with musicians at every skill level all
5 across the world.
6 He was a master musician on piano
7 and vibraphone, a five-time winner of the
8 prestigious DownBeat International Critics Poll,
9 and he recorded 26 albums under his own name,
10 working with revered musicians in jazz on other
11 albums, including Ornette Coleman, Don Cherry,
12 Pharoah Sanders, Dave Holland and many others.
13 And he was a master arranger of
14 music for pop, rock and contemporary, working
15 with people like Jeff Buckley, Natalie Merchant,
16 Better Than Ezra, The Cardigans, and a local
17 hometown band, Coheed & Cambria.
18 Karl and Ingrid, with the Creative
19 Music Studio, transformed music and traveled
20 around the world. And his teachings and his
21 lessons will live on in perpetuity.
22 On top of being an incredible
23 musician and pioneer in this field, he was also
24 an incredibly kind, generous man and friend to
25 everyone who knew him.
6769
1 We lost our community, we lost a
2 true hero. And it is with great sadness but with
3 honor and deep respect that we honor him on this
4 floor today. I'm really proud to bring this
5 resolution in honor of Karl Berger to the floor,
6 and I thank my colleagues for indulging me in
7 this moment.
8 I extend my sincere condolences to
9 his wife Ingrid and his daughter Savia Berger,
10 and know that we are with them in spirit. And
11 Karl's spirit will live on in perpetuity for
12 everyone who knew him, and through the future of
13 Creative Music Studio.
14 Thank you very much,
15 Madam President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Thank
17 you. The resolution was adopted on June 8th.
18 Senator Gianaris.
19 SENATOR GIANARIS: Senator Hinchey
20 would like to open that for cosponsorship.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
22 resolution is open for cosponsorship. Should you
23 choose not to be a cosponsor, please notify the
24 desk.
25 Senator Gianaris.
6770
1 SENATOR GIANARIS: Now back to the
2 controversial calendar, Madam President,
3 beginning with Calendar 1153, by
4 Senator Harckham.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
6 Secretary will ring the bell.
7 The Secretary will read.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1153, Senate Print 6893, by Senator Harckham, an
10 act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
12 Stec, why do you rise?
13 SENATOR STEC: I was hoping the
14 sponsor would yield for a few questions, please.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
16 Harckham --
17 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Through you,
18 Madam Chair, as long as the coffee holds out, I
19 will answer questions.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
21 sponsor will yield.
22 SENATOR STEC: Thank you,
23 Madam President. Thank you very much. Through
24 you, Madam President.
25 Good evening, Senator Harckham. I
6771
1 know the hour is late and -- or getting late;
2 we've got a ways to go. I'll try to be as brief
3 as possible.
4 Your -- the legislation at hand is
5 concerning -- it's centered around the upcoming
6 decommissioning of the Indian Point nuclear
7 facility on the Hudson River, is that true?
8 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Through you,
9 Madam Chair, yes, it is. This process started a
10 few years ago as the reactor was shut off, and a
11 company called Holtec has been doing the
12 decommissioning, they've been coming to our
13 quarterly Decommissioning Oversight Board
14 meetings to update us on their progress.
15 And a couple of months ago they
16 announced, in the course of their work plan, that
17 they were going to begin releasing 1.5 million
18 gallons of tritiated water from the spent fuel
19 pools, which was something that caught the
20 community off guard.
21 And what I think was more disturbing
22 to the community was that this is standard
23 practice in the nuclear industry -- as you know
24 from your experience, Senator Stec -- and this
25 had been going on, tens of millions of gallons of
6772
1 tritiated water from the nuclear plant when it
2 was active under the years of Entergy and Con Ed.
3 And so I have not seen a reaction
4 like this since in terms of the outcry from the
5 community to do something, both sides of the
6 river, Republican and Democratic communities
7 together.
8 And so, working with counsel, we
9 began looking at alternatives. And as you know,
10 the federal government preempts on health when it
11 comes to nuclear discharges, but the
12 Supreme Court has sided with the Ninth Circuit
13 when you talk about economic impacts.
14 And so this legislation speaks to
15 protecting the Hudson River Valley from
16 significant economic harm -- real estate,
17 homeowners, businesses, from the harm associated
18 with this discharge.
19 We have been in negotiations with
20 them about alternative schedules, about other
21 things they can do, about some of the
22 alternatives to dumping. But unfortunately none
23 of those discussions have yielded a fruitful
24 result. And so in order to protect the
25 communities from economic hardship, we feel that
6773
1 we need to pass this legislation.
2 SENATOR STEC: Through you,
3 Madam President, if the sponsor will continue to
4 yield.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
6 sponsor yield?
7 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Absolutely.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR STEC: All right, thank
11 you, Senator. I certainly appreciate that
12 introduction to the project.
13 And you made reference to my past
14 knowledge level on the subject. For those of you
15 that may not know, I was in the Navy's nuclear
16 power program and I was engineer-qualified. And
17 I was on a ship out of Bremerton, Washington, in
18 the Puget Sound, operated two nuclear reactors
19 safely on that ship. And the last thing that I
20 did on that ship before I went to shore duty was
21 I was on the decommissioning crew. We
22 decommissioned those two nuclear reactors, albeit
23 much smaller, but of course they were designed
24 for combat, on a combat vessel.
25 So my question would be, though,
6774
1 Indian Point, so what years did Indian Point
2 operate, and when did it shut down?
3 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Through you,
4 Madam Chair, first we want to thank the Senator
5 for his service to our country and for your
6 expertise on this.
7 The plant was transferred and closed
8 down -- what was it, two years ago or three years
9 ago? 2021. So it was about two, about two and a
10 half years ago is when Entergy sold the plant.
11 Both the NRC and the PSC approved the license.
12 There were actually three reactors
13 there, going back 50 years. One had been
14 decommissioned many years ago; that was
15 Reactor 1. And then there's still 2 and 3, and
16 those are the ones that are being decommissioned.
17 SENATOR STEC: Will the sponsor
18 continue to yield?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
20 sponsor yield?
21 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Absolutely.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR STEC: All right, thank
25 you, Madam President.
6775
1 So from 1962 to 2020, 58 years it
2 operated. Certainly there was economic benefit.
3 I'm sure everyone knew that nothing lasts forever
4 and that at some point we would need to be
5 decommissioning this like we do most any other
6 industrial facility.
7 Do you know -- you mentioned in your
8 opening remarks that the public was surprised,
9 and understandably so. Not everyone is a nuclear
10 engineer. The public was surprised that this
11 plant discharged water into the Hudson while it
12 was operating those 58 years.
13 Do you know about how much water was
14 discharged into the Hudson from the plant on an
15 annual basis for those almost six decades?
16 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Through you,
17 Madam Chair, it was millions of gallons a year as
18 the water was rotated through those fuel pools.
19 But the view in the community is
20 that just because something was done for decades
21 doesn't mean it's appropriate to continue doing
22 that. And again, regardless of party
23 affiliation, people in the Hudson Valley, the
24 Hudson River is sacred to them. It's the
25 birthplace of the modern environmental movement.
6776
1 It's an economic engine for close to
2 800,000 jobs. And people have a connection to
3 it.
4 We talked the other day about the
5 naming of the bridge and the Dutch connection,
6 the Native American connection.
7 And so this industrial-era policy of
8 siting industry alongside our water bodies
9 because it's convenient and expedient to dump
10 waste just doesn't work for people anymore. And
11 that's why we've been trying to negotiate for
12 alternatives. And short of alternatives, that's
13 why we have this legislation.
14 SENATOR STEC: Thank you,
15 Madam President. Will the sponsor continue to
16 yield.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
18 sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Absolutely.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR STEC: Thank you,
23 Madam President. I've seen some of the data on
24 this. And just hopefully, if nothing else, to
25 make your constituents a little more comfortable
6777
1 with however this may play out, that from '62 to
2 2020, those 58 years, the plant discharged about
3 2 million gallons a year into the river, 2
4 million gallons. You mentioned that
5 decommissioning is 1.5 million gallons to go.
6 So, you know, they discharged an awful lot.
7 And of course then the question is
8 what are you discharging. They discharged
9 1200 curies a year while they were operating.
10 There's only 400 total curies left to get rid of.
11 So 99 percent of whatever's going to be
12 discharged in the Hudson has already been
13 discharged. So a little bit of closing the barn
14 doors after the cows are out.
15 But with that said, I mean, you
16 know, you're the Environmental Conservation
17 chair, I'm the ranker. We've had conversations
18 along these lines before about what the bandwidth
19 is of DEC. So my question would be, who at the
20 state level is going to regulate, monitor,
21 enforce that no discharge -- because that's
22 another follow-up question I'll have. But who's
23 going to monitor this and enforce it for the
24 State of New York?
25 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Through you,
6778
1 Madam Chair. In this legislation it is the
2 Attorney General that would be dealing with the
3 enforcement.
4 SENATOR STEC: Will he yield,
5 please.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
7 sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Absolutely.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR STEC: So the
12 Attorney General has staff on it that understands
13 radiological waste and discharge, they have
14 scientists and people that are going to monitor
15 day to day the site to make sure that this
16 doesn't happen?
17 I mean, I understand legally they're
18 going to step in. But who's going to do the
19 boots-on-the-ground work to make sure -- I mean,
20 where I'm coming to is that this is a preempted
21 area by the federal government. The Clean Water
22 Act does not trump the nuclear regulatory
23 agencies or the atomic laws that surround these
24 things in the country.
25 And it will come as no surprise to
6779
1 you that I think oftentimes the State of New York
2 has stepped in to try to regulate something that
3 should be regulated and is in fact regulated on a
4 national level because it's difficult to have
5 state to state rules.
6 But if EPA and the nuclear
7 regulatory agencies aren't the ones to do the
8 monitoring, then does DEC have the staff and the
9 resources and the knowledge and the equipment to
10 do this monitoring? Or who's going to do this
11 monitoring?
12 SENATOR HARCKHAM: So it's
13 interesting that you raise that question. One of
14 the things that we did in the Decommissioning
15 Oversight Board was we were greatly disappointed
16 because the second the keys were handed over, the
17 NRC took their resident inspectors and left. And
18 that was another blow to the community. So the
19 PSC hired a full-time inspector.
20 There is also New York State
21 Department of Health monitoring that goes on.
22 So there are the boots on the ground
23 to do this.
24 You know, the hope of this
25 legislation, Madam President, is not that we have
6780
1 to have snoopy snoops on the ground, you know,
2 checking the tanks where the water is held. The
3 purpose of the legislation is so this company
4 understands that this is not a viable method for
5 the community and that we need to come up with
6 another alternative rather than this.
7 And there are solutions that other
8 power plants have done during their
9 decommissioning. They're not -- they're not
10 always ideal. Three Mile Island, we all remember
11 what happened there. They used evaporation. The
12 problem with evaporation is then the tritium
13 falls with the rain.
14 Some places have tried storage in
15 tanks. The problem is you have to vent those
16 tanks, so more tritium is released.
17 What happened in Vermont, which
18 actually worked and looks promising is they mixed
19 the water with clay and then it can be trucked --
20 there are a few nuclear waste sites, not for
21 spent fuel rods but for light nuclear waste, and
22 they use it there as a cap.
23 So there is a use for it, an end use
24 for it, a location for it. And so there are
25 alternatives.
6781
1 And it's interesting, when you look
2 at the political dynamics of people who are
3 calling for no dumping, that when you can get
4 Congressman Lawler and Congressman Bowman to
5 agree on something, it must be a powerful driving
6 issue, and that's what this is.
7 SENATOR STEC: Will the sponsor
8 continue to yield, please.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Absolutely.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR STEC: So the plant's
15 operated for 58 years, put 2 million gallons a
16 year into the river. You know, regulated all
17 along. They've got a million and a half gallons
18 to deal with now. It's about a 12-year process,
19 I understand, to fully decommission this plant.
20 Obviously no one wants a blight on
21 their community. I've seen what happens when
22 correction facilities are left unused and sitting
23 in the -- you know, the community doesn't want to
24 see a blighted property. No one likes
25 brownfields. I'm sure the public really doesn't
6782
1 want to see a nuclear brownfield nearby.
2 Do you have concerns that either
3 litigation or the alternatives will change the
4 dynamic in a negative way that will drive either
5 cost or, perhaps more concerningly, the duration
6 of time to complete this process beyond 12 years
7 where this could be -- I mean, it's possible
8 something like this, if not done correctly here,
9 could set us up for a decade of litigation where
10 nothing happens there. I'm not sure that would
11 be in the public's interest either.
12 So do you share any of those
13 concerns? Or how would you address those
14 concerns?
15 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Through you,
16 Madam Chair. Excellent question.
17 For one thing, there is plenty of
18 work on the outbuildings that can continue to be
19 done. There are dozens of outbuildings on the
20 campus that continue to be taken down. There's
21 the ISFSI pad where the spent fuel casks go, and
22 the security and the construction around that.
23 So there are still years' worth of work that can
24 be done while a decision is made here.
25 The other thing is this -- you
6783
1 mentioned this has a 12-year window. They have
2 two other active decommissioning projects that
3 were eight years, and they halted them for four
4 years to meet the 12-year timeline -- not because
5 of work interruptions but because the stock
6 market had gone down and the decommissioning
7 trust fund had lost value and they didn't want to
8 lock in those losses.
9 So there's a protection by having
10 the 12-year versus the eight-year. And so we're
11 still optimistic that we can get this going.
12 You also talk about the blight of a
13 brownfield or a nuclear site. And this is not a
14 knock on this company, this is a knock on the
15 federal government and the nuclear industry, as
16 the Village of Buchanan will now be a nuclear
17 waste site and waste dump forever. All of the
18 spent fuel rods will span a two-acre pad in a
19 double-razor-wire fence that needs to be guarded
20 24/7. And that will be left in the Village of
21 Buchanan.
22 So they can, to your point -- and
23 it's a good point -- in a reasonable amount of
24 time take down the reactors, take down the
25 outbuildings, you have a beautiful property right
6784
1 on the Hudson River not impeded by railroad
2 tracks. It's one of the few in Westchester like
3 that. And are you going to put a hotel marina
4 there? You can't. Are you going to put condos
5 there? You can't. Who's going to do that kind
6 of development next to a nuclear waste site?
7 SENATOR STEC: Will the sponsor
8 continue to yield, please.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Absolutely.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR STEC: All right, thank
15 you, Senator.
16 So you mentioned the Decommissioning
17 Oversight Board. I understand that you're a
18 member of that board. And the DOB has an
19 independent technical nuclear expert, I believe
20 his name is David Lochbaum --
21 SENATOR HARCKHAM: (Inaudible.)
22 SENATOR STEC: -- and he's quoted
23 as comparing the maximum dose from the liquid
24 releases at Indian Point to a small fraction of
25 what a banana -- and this is an independent
6785
1 expert, he's not the company. But he's the DOB's
2 technical nuclear expert.
3 I was wondering if -- what options
4 he has reviewed as far as removing this
5 1.5 million gallons through other alternatives.
6 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Through you,
7 Madam President. Number one, you know, this is
8 not -- again, it's not about the health and it's
9 not about the levels. It's about the economic
10 impact that the communities fear this will have.
11 Dave Lochbaum has recommended --
12 he's evaluated the four that I spoke about.
13 You've got discharge, you've got evaporation,
14 you've got solidification -- and the one I didn't
15 mention, which is probably the least desirable,
16 is trucking or training across the country. And
17 there have been desert locations where it's
18 forced down into the rock. But I don't think
19 anybody -- you know, given what's happened in
20 Rockland County with the CSX train, that we trust
21 rail to be taking nuclear waste.
22 But Dave is actually -- for the next
23 meeting he's working on another study and asking
24 other independent experts to peer-review it. So
25 we're waiting to see the result of those
6786
1 recommendations.
2 There -- as I said at the outset,
3 there are not a lot of great recommendations.
4 However -- and you don't have to answer this,
5 Senator. I'm not trying to put you on the spot,
6 but --
7 SENATOR STEC: (Inaudible.)
8 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Thank you.
9 Through you, Madam Chair,
10 hypothetically. The Senator represents a
11 beautiful part of New York State -- the
12 Adirondacks, Lake George area. You know, it's
13 just the psychological impact of restaurants and
14 homeowners and hotels and businesses.
15 You know, along the Hudson, our
16 municipalities have invested tens of millions of
17 dollars. Their revitalization is tied to the
18 river. So you take a beautiful spot like the
19 Finger Lakes or Lake George or any of those -- or
20 Skaneateles -- and all of a sudden the community
21 hears that 1.5 million gallons of tritiated water
22 are going to be released, and it causes panic.
23 And that's the fear that folks have.
24 SENATOR STEC: I'm not sure there
25 was a real question there for me to answer. But
6787
1 if the sponsor would --
2 SENATOR HARCKHAM: No, what --
3 through you, Madam Chair, there was no question.
4 It was a hypothetical.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Yes. He
6 was complimenting your area.
7 SENATOR STEC: I think he was. And
8 I was going to take it that way.
9 (Laughter.)
10 SENATOR HARCKHAM: I'm
11 complimenting your district.
12 SENATOR STEC: Or at least my
13 district.
14 If the sponsor would continue to
15 yield, please, Madam President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Will the
17 sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Absolutely.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
20 sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR STEC: No, Chairman, I
22 truly appreciate that.
23 And again, I talked about previous
24 life -- my previous life experiences. And again,
25 if nothing else, for your constituents watching
6788
1 at home, I'm trying to, if nothing else, allay
2 some of their concerns.
3 But my present line of work is
4 similar to yours and everyone else's in this
5 room, and that's about being reactive to the
6 concerns of our constituents. So I certainly
7 don't fault you or your constituents for having
8 questions. 99.5 percent of whatever is going to
9 be discharged into the Hudson has already been
10 discharged into the Hudson.
11 Has the -- my question would be, did
12 the independent technical expert recommend any
13 options yet as far as removal? Has he made a
14 recommendation?
15 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Through you,
16 Madam Chair, his initial recommendation was the
17 release into the river. As you can imagine, that
18 was not met with much enthusiasm by the
19 community.
20 So that's one of the reason why he's
21 going back to sharpen his pencil and look at the
22 alternatives. I believe our next meeting is next
23 week. Hopefully we will have those calculations
24 and presentations.
25 But, you know, part of the
6789
1 problem -- you mentioned the banana scenario.
2 And again, that was not greeted by the community
3 well. It was viewed as flip. And so -- and I'm
4 not saying you were saying that. What he was
5 saying.
6 And so the issue is at the last
7 meeting we had the NRC and the EPA. And I
8 specifically asked them about the their
9 standards, their health standards, and they were
10 30 and 40 years old respectively. It was the
11 last time they reviewed them. And the initial
12 standards were developed during World War Two on
13 single young men who were soldiers as part of the
14 Manhattan Project. That's how we got to our
15 standards.
16 And the people in the community
17 organized and got some independent physicians who
18 would say there's no such thing as a safe level
19 of tritium exposure. And again, it's not about
20 health and safety. That's not what this bill is
21 about. It's about the economic vitality.
22 But so, you know, where the
23 community is is you have experts on one side
24 saying one thing and then there are experts on
25 the other side who say another thing. And then
6790
1 the void of data, of recent analysis from the EPA
2 and the NRC, that vacuum doesn't help.
3 And the other thing I asked them was
4 what about cumulative impacts. You know, we in
5 this room talk about legislation all the time
6 with differing substances. We're exposed to
7 hundreds of chemicals a day. And everyone always
8 talks about the minimum exposure level, but we
9 never talk about -- excuse me, please -- we never
10 talk about the cumulative impacts on people,
11 particularly vulnerable -- our children, women
12 who are pregnant, the elderly.
13 So -- so those are some of the
14 concerns that are real. Real or not, perception
15 is reality, as you say in our business. So
16 again, what we're trying to do is prevent
17 economic harm to the Lower Hudson Valley. And
18 hopefully through this legislation we can bring
19 them back to the table and we can come up with
20 some alternatives.
21 SENATOR STEC: If the sponsor would
22 continue to yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
24 sponsor yield?
25 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Absolutely.
6791
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
2 sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR STEC: Thank you. I
4 certainly understand how the banana comparison
5 played. I'll tell you, as a former technical
6 expert myself, not always strongest with people
7 skills. And so it's very easy for somebody like
8 an engineer to walk into a room and make a
9 comment like -- of course the point with bananas
10 are -- is bananas are radioactive as far as a
11 source.
12 When I was in the Navy, they taught
13 us that the amount of radiation exposure that I
14 could expect to get working in a nuclear reactor
15 setting was less than I would get if I lived in
16 Colorado, because of the elevation. Not because
17 Denver, Colorado, is a particularly dangerous
18 place, but because the elevation distance, the
19 shielding that you got from less atmosphere
20 increased your radiation exposure.
21 So again, you say "nuclear" to a lot
22 of people, they think Hiroshima, Nagasaki, they
23 think mushroom clouds. And you're not going to
24 change that, and I wouldn't want to argue with
25 that. So I -- like I said, as an elected
6792
1 official, I understand that challenge.
2 A couple of final real quick
3 questions, though. The -- what has the
4 conversation with NRC and EPA -- I mean, they're
5 the ones that really preempt all this discussion.
6 What's the direction that they've had, the input
7 they've had to the DOB as far as where they think
8 this project is heading? Are they agreeing with
9 the technical expert?
10 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Well, when it
11 comes to -- when it comes to the health impacts,
12 yes, the federal government does have preemption.
13 And we have been also advised that not only by
14 the NRC, but by the DEC and by the Attorney
15 General's office. They have all opined that it
16 comes to health impacts, the feds have
17 jurisdiction.
18 However, the Atomic Energy Act has
19 preemption language, and it says "Nothing in
20 section shall be construed to effect the
21 authority of any state" -- the authority of any
22 state -- "or local agency to regulate activities
23 for purposes other than protection against
24 radiation hazard."
25 And so when Pacific Gas was in the
6793
1 Ninth Circuit, the Ninth Circuit ruled in favor
2 of a ban of discharges based on economic impacts,
3 and the Supreme Court upheld that. And so that's
4 the premise that we're going with this bill.
5 SENATOR STEC: One final question,
6 if the sponsor would yield, please.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
8 sponsor yield?
9 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Absolutely.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
13 If this legislation is signed into
14 law, what would you hope that would happen at
15 Indian Point as far as this pool -- you know, the
16 spent fuel pool water, 1.5 million gallons. What
17 do you think is the better alternative?
18 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Through you,
19 Madam President. You know, it's a good question.
20 You know, it's really up to the
21 experts and for Holtec and the community to work
22 out a solution. You know, what -- as I mentioned
23 earlier, what they've done in Vermont is they've
24 gone the solidification route. Maybe there's a
25 compromise in terms of reducing the amount of
6794
1 water released over a longer period of time.
2 I think one of the things that set
3 the people off the most was they were going to do
4 it in the middle of the summer during peak
5 recreation season on the river. And not only
6 were folks angry about that, then they came back
7 and said they were going to do it three months
8 earlier.
9 So, you know, is there a way that if
10 that is -- if the data shows that's absolutely
11 the safest way, then let's do it in the winter.
12 Let's -- you know, they're -- they're -- but
13 that's up to the community and Holtec and the
14 experts to work out. I don't want to impose a
15 solution from Albany. I'm just representing the
16 community and trying to be a bastion against what
17 they view will cause harm to the economy in the
18 area.
19 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
20 Madam President, on the bill
21 briefly.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
23 Stec on the bill.
24 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
25 Chairman, I'd like to thank you for
6795
1 the legislation, for your thoughtfulness. Like I
2 said, I mean, we are all in the same business
3 right now. We're trying to be responsive to our
4 constituents. My own stretch of the Hudson River
5 a little bit upstream of yours. PCBs. GE, PCBs,
6 dredging, all that, that's just downstream of my
7 hometown, and that's a story. Very real concern,
8 different concern, different history.
9 If nothing else, I hope to allay
10 some of your concerns and your constituents'
11 concerns as to the risk.
12 With that said, you know what, I'm
13 not in the business of arguing with anyone about
14 the health of the water that their kids are
15 swimming in. Right? So I understand that, and I
16 respect where you're coming from.
17 On an energy policy standpoint, I'm
18 an "all of the above" person. Seventy percent of
19 France's electric energy is nuclear. I think
20 it's the direction that we're going to have to
21 embrace eventually and we're going to have to get
22 around some of our fears of past experience or
23 the lack of knowledge.
24 I hope that this legislation works
25 out. I hope it does not delay the
6796
1 decommissioning of this. Because there's risks
2 involved in that as well. I certainly wish
3 you and the community well as you maneuver
4 through this.
5 I'm going to support the
6 legislation. But if nothing else, you know, I
7 really think that the direction that you're
8 heading is probably not an awful one. But I
9 understand from a public -- from your
10 perspective, it's difficult work, and I wish you
11 well in doing that.
12 Thank you, Madam President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Are
14 there any other Senators wishing to be heard?
15 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
16 closed.
17 The Secretary will ring the bell.
18 Read the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
25 Harckham to explain his vote.
6797
1 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Thank you very
2 much, Madam President.
3 I want to thank you, Senator Stec,
4 first of all for a very thoughtful debate, for
5 your service, and for our partnership and
6 collaboration on the Environmental Conservation
7 Committee this year. We didn't always agree on
8 every issue, but the issues we did agree on I
9 think we got a lot of great work done. I look
10 forward to working with you again next year.
11 I want to thank a lot of colleagues
12 on both sides of the aisle, both in this chamber,
13 locally, the five county executives who came
14 together. As Senator Stec mentioned, this is not
15 an easy issue. We've been trying to negotiate
16 with Holtec in good faith. We're trying to allay
17 community fears. So it is a challenge. But
18 people expect us to be their voice when it comes
19 to these difficult issues. And that's why we've
20 landed, as we discussed, on this legislation.
21 So, you know, I'm proud to have
22 worked with Assemblymember Levenberg, who is my
23 partner on this. This is the number-one issue
24 for both of us here locally.
25 You know, I want to thank our
6798
1 central staff, Mike Press and Sylvie Sherlach
2 from my staff, among others, for assisting with
3 this.
4 And this is going to be a process.
5 You know, as you said, it's not a -- this is not
6 going to be the cure-all. It's going to be a
7 continual process. And that's why we set up the
8 Decommissioning Oversight Board, so we can have
9 this dialogue on an ongoing basis.
10 So I thank colleagues for their
11 support, and I vote aye.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
13 Harckham to be recorded in the affirmative.
14 Senator Hinchey to explain her vote.
15 SENATOR HINCHEY: Thank you,
16 Madam President.
17 I rise to thank the sponsor for this
18 bill. The 41st District represents a true
19 Hudson Valley district. I represent
20 Greene County, Columbia County, parts of Ulster
21 and parts of Dutchess. Many of those communities
22 line the Hudson River on both sides of the river.
23 The Hudson River is a beacon for our
24 communities. It is an economic driver. It is a
25 pristine, beautiful entity that runs right
6799
1 through our state. And as someone who grew up
2 living on the Hudson River, swimming in the
3 Hudson River, I've seen also what a strong river
4 does for the economic vitality of our
5 communities -- watching the waterfronts be
6 revitalized over the last few decades has been a
7 game-changer for our communities.
8 And the threat of what could happen
9 is not only scary but it's detrimental to the
10 future of the Hudson Valley and those river
11 towns.
12 I want to thank the activists and
13 the organizers in my district and all of our
14 districts across the Hudson Valley for sounding
15 the alarm, for being persistent in this fight,
16 and for making sure that we don't just continue
17 something that has been known as the status quo,
18 and that we find better solutions to move forward
19 and protect our communities.
20 Again, I thank the sponsor for this
21 legislation, and I proudly vote aye.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
23 Hinchey to be recorded in the affirmative.
24 Senator Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick to
25 explain her vote.
6800
1 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
2 Thank you, Madam President.
3 I think it's so interesting that
4 just a little while ago we were talking about the
5 coastline of Long Island and the Long Beach area,
6 and what we're producing and what we're doing to
7 our shoreline there by doing offshore wind. And
8 here we are talking about preserving the Hudson.
9 And my understanding -- and I
10 certainly defer to Senator Harckham and
11 Senator Stec, because they are well-versed in
12 this area, but my understanding is that
13 Indian Point was producing 2,000 megawatts of
14 emission-free energy and electricity, and now
15 we're trying to do something less than that off
16 Long Island and will be doing some severe damage
17 potentially to our coastline.
18 So I hope that we'll be thoughtful
19 in the way that we are balancing our needs for
20 energy and our protection of certain waterways,
21 because I think they're all precious. And I
22 think we should be mindful of that in the things
23 that we do going forward.
24 I am supporting this legislation.
25 Thank you, Madam President.
6801
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
2 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick to be recorded in the
3 affirmative.
4 Senator Mayer to explain her vote.
5 SENATOR MAYER: Thank you,
6 Madam President.
7 And I rise to commend my colleague
8 Senator Harckham and my other colleague who's
9 here, Assemblywoman Dana Levenberg, together
10 with, as Senator Harckham said, a bipartisan
11 group of legislators, county executives,
12 Congress members and, more importantly, activists
13 who have rallied behind this bill and the effort
14 to cease Holtec's distribution and emissions into
15 the Hudson River.
16 You know, I'm proud to be a person
17 who grew up in Yonkers and continues to live in
18 the City of Yonkers, a city that has been rebuilt
19 economically because it is on the Hudson River.
20 The entire downtown of Yonkers has come back to
21 life as the Hudson has come back to life, and it
22 has created not only housing and economic
23 activity and arts and entertainment, but a sense
24 of vitality that comes from being along a river
25 that is a place people can walk, enjoy and live.
6802
1 And so I'm so pleased that this bill
2 is moving today and is moving in the Assembly and
3 will send a very strong signal that there needs
4 to be a prohibition on this discharge, and we
5 need to find a solution that works so that the
6 economic engine of our county and our communities
7 can continue.
8 I proudly vote aye.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
10 Mayer to be recorded in the affirmative.
11 Senator Weber to explain his vote.
12 SENATOR WEBER: Thank you,
13 Madam President.
14 I also rise to thank
15 Senator Harckham for his excellent work on this
16 legislation. You know, he's right. You know,
17 this was a bipartisan effort. In the Hudson
18 Valley, mostly all of the Republicans and
19 democratic Senators and Assemblymen and -women
20 and, you're right, county executives and various
21 local officials all really supported this effort.
22 We all utilize these waterways,
23 whether it's kayaking, whether it's swimming, you
24 know, whether it's fishing. You know, we all
25 love the Hudson River for all of the different
6803
1 reasons that I mentioned.
2 So I'm happy that we all unified
3 behind this issue because it's very important,
4 and I hope this, you know, sets the example for
5 other areas that -- you know, for the future.
6 And you're right, we still have some
7 work to do in terms of really holding Holtec
8 accountable, or at least monitoring what they're
9 going to do with a lot of the stuff that they
10 have left over there.
11 But, you know, I'm happy that we
12 took this step forward, and I appreciate your
13 efforts. Thank you.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
15 Weber to be recorded in the affirmative.
16 Senator Rolison to explain his vote.
17 SENATOR ROLISON: Thank you,
18 Madam President.
19 I want to thank my colleague
20 Senator Harckham for shepherding this through
21 this house, and our colleagues on the Assembly
22 side.
23 And one of the things that this
24 particular bill and the response to Holtec, it
25 was almost immediate when we became aware, the
6804
1 public became aware of the discharge. Regardless
2 if that had happened in the past, which we know
3 it did. And I think the bipartisan support and
4 the bipartisan concern being so immediate, and
5 then the action being taken by so many of us --
6 and again, Senator Harckham, thank you for
7 leading that as the Environmental chair, and it
8 also shows you the importance of that site, the
9 birthplace of the movement of trying to save the
10 Hudson River right in that area dating back to
11 the Con Ed pump storage along Cornwall.
12 So, Madam President, for all of
13 those reasons and others, I'm proud to vote aye.
14 Thank you.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
16 Rolison to be recorded in the affirmative.
17 Announce the results.
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 62.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
20 is passed.
21 Senator Gianaris.
22 SENATOR GIANARIS: Madam President,
23 can we next move on to Calendar Number 1827, by
24 Senator Myrie, for the next debate.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: There is
6805
1 a substitution at the desk.
2 The Secretary will read.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Myrie moves
4 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
5 Assembly Bill Number 1029C and substitute it for
6 the identical Senate Bill 7551A, Third Reading
7 Calendar 1827.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
9 substitution is so ordered.
10 The Secretary will read.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1827, Assembly Bill Number 1029C, by
13 Assemblymember Cruz, an act to amend the
14 Criminal Procedure Law.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
16 Lanza, why do you rise?
17 SENATOR LANZA: Madam President, I
18 believe there is an amendment at the desk. I
19 waive the reading of that amendment and ask that
20 you recognize Senator Palumbo.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Thank
22 you, Senator Lanza.
23 Upon review of the amendment, in
24 accordance with Rule 6, Section 4B, I rule it
25 nongermane and out of order at this time.
6806
1 SENATOR LANZA: Accordingly,
2 Madam President, I appeal the ruling of the chair
3 and ask that Senator Palumbo be heard on the
4 appeal.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
6 appeal has been made and recognized, and
7 Senator Palumbo may be heard.
8 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
9 Madam President. Good evening.
10 I rise to appeal the ruling of the
11 chair because this proposed amendment is germane
12 to the bill-in-chief, the Clean Slate Bill, as
13 it's known.
14 This proposed amendment is not a
15 strike and replace, it's just a new category that
16 would be added to this, so it automatically seals
17 law enforcement disciplinary records three years
18 after a disposition, where there are no pending
19 civilian complaints, disciplinary actions or
20 pending civil cases, once the records are
21 eligible for sealing.
22 And this is certainly relevant. In
23 fact, it's quite consistent, because as we've
24 seen for quite some time now many iterations of
25 this Clean Slate Bill that this is intended to
6807
1 help people in disadvantaged communities, people
2 with getting employment.
3 And I'm going to give some stats
4 from 2020, NYPD's disciplinary case demographics:
5 52 percent of the NYPD officer discipline
6 identified as nonwhite; 47 percent identified as
7 white; 18 percent identified as female;
8 66 percent were at the rank of police officer;
9 and 14 percent were at the rank of detective.
10 And for those of you who don't know,
11 if you have a disciplinary action on your police
12 record as a member of law enforcement, you can't
13 take civil service tests, I don't believe you can
14 even get promotions. So this is stifling
15 individuals who may have had a disciplinary
16 action against them in uniform and then who have
17 reformed themselves.
18 So let's keep in mind that these
19 individuals are moms and dads and husbands and
20 wives and children and aunts and uncles. These
21 are individuals who too need to advance through
22 their positions and advance in their employment
23 to provide for their families. And these are the
24 individuals, of course, that go to work with a
25 firearm and a bulletproof vest.
6808
1 So for those reasons,
2 Madam President, this amendment is certainly
3 germane to the bill-in-chief, and I ask that you
4 reconsider the ruling.
5 Thank you.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Thank
7 you, Senator.
8 I want to remind the house that the
9 vote is on the procedures of the house and the
10 ruling of the chair.
11 Those in favor of overruling the
12 chair, signify by saying aye.
13 (Response of "Aye.")
14 SENATOR LANZA: Show of hands.
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 21.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
17 ruling of the chair stands, and the bill-in-chief
18 is before the house.
19 Read the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 10. This
21 act shall take effect one year after it shall
22 have become a law.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
24 Palumbo.
25 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
6809
1 Madam President. You're not getting away that
2 easy.
3 (Laughter.)
4 SENATOR PALUMBO: Will the sponsor
5 yield for a few questions, please.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Will the
7 sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR MYRIE: Absolutely.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
12 Senator Myrie. Nice to see you. Good evening.
13 We've had these discussions now for
14 a few years, so I'll try and keep it as tight as
15 we can, to just talk about this newest version
16 that has come to the floor.
17 So generally speaking, there are
18 some exceptions to the sealing, as we know. And
19 could you just please describe us to us in this
20 version what the exceptions are, the types of
21 crimes that would not be sealed under this
22 automatic sealing document or bill and proposed
23 legislation, please.
24 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
25 Madam President, the change -- and I'm just going
6810
1 to go through the changes from the bill that was
2 introduced earlier in January. You and I had an
3 exchange on this floor during the budget, and so
4 I won't go through the previous iterations. The
5 most significant carve-out, for lack of a better
6 phrase, is all Class A felonies, with the
7 exception of certain drug felonies.
8 This builds on the exceptions for
9 violent sex crimes. And to be clear, these are
10 all individuals who have been convicted, who have
11 served their time, and who would have had to
12 remain charge-free for a certain period of time,
13 depending on the crime.
14 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you.
15 Madam President, will the sponsor
16 continue to yield, please.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
18 sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
23 Senator.
24 And as far as those exceptions or
25 when the clock would start on the now -- and just
6811
1 to be clear, it's three years for a misdemeanor
2 and now eight years for a felony, is that
3 accurate?
4 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
5 Madam President, that's correct.
6 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you.
7 Will the sponsor yield?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
14 Senator.
15 So in that regard, the clock to
16 start the sealing time frame of either three or
17 eight years, that starts upon release from
18 supervision from parole? We'll start with
19 parole, I guess. Is that how this works with
20 this new bill?
21 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
22 Madam President, the clock starts from release of
23 incarceration -- excuse me one second.
24 Right, imposition of sentence, my
25 apologies.
6812
1 SENATOR PALUMBO: Will the sponsor
2 continue to yield?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
4 sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you. And I
9 jumped ahead of myself. So if you're on parole,
10 it can't be sealed. Is that -- that's really a
11 more accurate question.
12 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
13 Madam President, that is correct.
14 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you.
15 Will the sponsor continue to yield.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Will the
17 sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
20 sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you.
22 So -- and I appreciate the fact that
23 it was clarified that A felonies are now
24 excluded. But virtually all A-1 felonies have
25 lifetime parole anyway, isn't that accurate?
6813
1 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
2 Madam President, that is correct.
3 And I would note that this was the
4 point that I made when we've had this exchange in
5 the past, and certainly have made this point when
6 speaking about this bill publicly. There are
7 opponents of the bill who would bring up or go
8 through the list of these Class A felonies, and
9 my response would be in almost 98 percent of the
10 time that individual would not be eligible for
11 sealing.
12 But in order to clarify that and to
13 allay some of those concerns, we made that more
14 explicit in this iteration of the bill.
15 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you.
16 Will the sponsor continue to yield,
17 please.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
19 sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
24 Senator.
25 So then to be clear, under this
6814
1 version now, arson first degree, murder second
2 degree, essentially the -- well, all A-1s will
3 never be eligible for sealing. Is that accurate
4 to say?
5 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
6 Madam President, not eligible for automatic
7 sealing under this statute.
8 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you.
9 Would the sponsor continue to yield.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
11 sponsor yield?
12 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR PALUMBO: With respect to
16 other violent felonies, for example -- and we've
17 had this exchange before -- robberies and
18 burglaries, even burglary first degree, are those
19 still eligible for automatic sealing under this
20 version of the bill?
21 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
22 Madam President, that is correct, after the
23 criteria have been met.
24 And I would point to a point of
25 clarification we've had on this floor. If you
6815
1 run through all of these crimes, I think there is
2 a right sense of indignation. There are some
3 things that shock the conscience that we say
4 there should be consequences for that.
5 And I want to make clear on the
6 record that this does not in any way affect the
7 sentencing for those crimes. And we have made a
8 determination, as a Legislature, as a society,
9 that if you commit that crime and if it is
10 adjudicated and you are subsequently convicted,
11 that the court decides what sentence is going to
12 be.
13 And if we want to have a discussion
14 about sentencing or sentencing reform, I'm more
15 than happy to have that conversation, but this is
16 not what this bill is about. This is after an
17 individual has already served the sentence that
18 the court has determined.
19 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
20 Senator. Would you continue to yield, please.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
25 sponsor yields.
6816
1 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
2 Senator.
3 So -- and just to narrow it down,
4 I'm not going to go through every one of these.
5 You know, we've done this before. So I just want
6 to make it clear and make it -- have our
7 colleagues understand the crimes that are still
8 eligible for the automatic sealing are crimes
9 like -- and just to name a few of the homicides,
10 like criminally negligent homicide, manslaughter
11 second degree, manslaughter first degree. Those
12 are still eligible for sealing under this new
13 version that's before us today. Isn't that
14 accurate?
15 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
16 Madam President, it is.
17 And let me also take this
18 opportunity for clarity for our colleagues, that
19 the over 6.6 million convictions from 1980 up
20 until 2019, 77 percent of those -- representing
21 about 2.3 million people living in this state
22 today -- 77 percent are misdemeanors, 23 percent
23 are felonies.
24 And of those individuals with
25 conviction records, the median amount of a
6817
1 conviction is one: 53 percent of those
2 individuals have only had one conviction.
3 And here is what I think what is
4 most important for our colleagues and for the
5 public to know, is that half of the individuals
6 with a conviction record in this state -- that's
7 close to 1 million people -- their most recent
8 conviction, regardless of whether it was a
9 misdemeanor or it was a felony, was 20 years ago.
10 Half of them, twenty years ago.
11 Twenty-six percent of them, their
12 most recent conviction was between 11 and
13 20 years ago. So you put that together -- and I
14 was joking about my lack of math skills, but I
15 was able to do a little scribbling before this
16 debate.
17 Seventy-three percent of people with
18 conviction records in this state have remained
19 crime-free for at least 10 years, regardless of
20 what that conviction was for.
21 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you.
22 And would the sponsor continue to
23 yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
25 sponsor yield?
6818
1 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
5 Senator.
6 And in that regard, then -- and you
7 and I have had this discussion. As you were
8 giving me those statistics, I thought of a
9 conversation you and I have had, we've discussed
10 this often outside of this room. We currently --
11 we made some amendments to the Criminal Procedure
12 Law to allow application to a court to ask the
13 judge, typically the sentencing judge, if they're
14 still around, to seal a misdemeanor and a
15 felony -- so you get two bites at the apple -- by
16 way of a motion and an application to the court.
17 Can you tell me why you felt that
18 this was necessary? Because -- and just to
19 streamline it, I still believe you can use --
20 take advantage of this an unlimited amount of
21 times. Everything continues. No matter how many
22 convictions you have, they will be automatically
23 sealed if you fit the criteria.
24 Why didn't we just make it automatic
25 that the current law, where an application can be
6819
1 made, and give you two bites at the apple -- why
2 didn't we just make that automatic?
3 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
4 Madam President. And I would just underscore
5 that Senator Palumbo and I have had not just
6 discussions on this floor, but both in committee,
7 when Senator Bailey, by way of his chairmanship
8 of the Codes Committee, held a hearing on this
9 bill close to three years ago. We've had this
10 discussion. I think it's a philosophical
11 difference.
12 The reason why we want this to be
13 automatic is that the current application process
14 has proven to be too onerous and burdensome --
15 0.05 percent of individuals who are eligible have
16 applied. That means that we have work to do.
17 And we thought that an automatic regime would be
18 more effective.
19 And on the notion of the unlimited
20 amount of convictions, I would point my
21 colleagues again to the statistics that say the
22 majority of individuals with conviction records
23 only have one. And if you average it out, it is
24 three, but that is an average. Right? And so
25 that means that there are individuals at the
6820
1 higher end, but the -- but 53 percent of them,
2 it's only one conviction.
3 And I would again point to the
4 accountability measure in this bill that says it
5 only takes one charge to restart the clock. If
6 you have served your sentence and you know that
7 in order to benefit from automatic sealing you
8 have to remain crime-free, and only one restarts
9 that clock, you have an incredibly high incentive
10 to remain crime-free and to not get another
11 conviction.
12 And that's why I have said, and I
13 believe we probably disagree here, but this is a
14 public safety bill. Because once people know
15 that they can benefit from this, there is an
16 incentive for them to remain conviction-free.
17 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
18 Senator.
19 Would the sponsor continue to yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you.
6821
1 And, you know, we've probably bored
2 a lot of people with the conversations that we
3 have outside of this room, you know, going around
4 and around with this. It's always been cordial,
5 and I've always appreciated that very much.
6 Regarding those -- the clock
7 stopping or resetting events, you said new
8 charges in New York. How about an out-of-state
9 charge or a new charge during that window, the
10 three- or eight-year window in the federal court,
11 will that stop the clock? Or is that something
12 that is accepted under this particular iteration?
13 Because it previously was not.
14 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
15 Madam President. There is a change in this
16 iteration. But I want to clarify what that
17 change is.
18 The requirement that we follow
19 out-of-state charges is something that is a
20 difficult thing to do for our court
21 administrators, for our law enforcement
22 officials, particularly if they don't have access
23 to the federal networks or the local networks
24 that would provide them with the information for
25 the charges.
6822
1 However, we did include a provision
2 in this bill that said should that capability
3 become available, that we would have to monitor
4 those out-of-state charges and, depending on what
5 the charge was -- we accept particular charges
6 around marijuana and reproductive health. But if
7 that has happened within the last eight years,
8 provided that we have the capability to monitor
9 the charges, then it would restart the clock.
10 SENATOR PALUMBO: Will the sponsor
11 continue to yield.
12 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
16 Senator.
17 And by way of an example, if someone
18 has a pending -- has a conviction, they've been
19 released from custody, I believe is when the
20 clock would start, say on a misdemeanor DWI, and
21 they got a DWI in New Jersey, would that stop the
22 clock on the three-year automatic sealing under
23 this new Clean Slate Bill?
24 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
25 Madam President, if it's a felony and if we can
6823
1 get through that hurdle of implementation, having
2 the capability to follow the charge.
3 SENATOR PALUMBO: Will the sponsor
4 continue to yield.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
6 sponsor yield?
7 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR PALUMBO: Just so I'm
11 clear, Senator, if it's a misdemeanor DWI,
12 though, it does not, correct? The New York
13 charge would be automatically sealed anyway,
14 despite the fact that a DWI is pending in
15 New Jersey. Is that accurate?
16 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
17 Madam President, that's correct.
18 SENATOR PALUMBO: Will the sponsor
19 continue to yield?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Will the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR PALUMBO: Moving on to
6824
1 access to these records, I see that there's a
2 list. Is the list of those that can get access
3 to these records an exhaustive list, that if
4 they're not named in here then you're not allowed
5 to see them?
6 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
7 Madam President, mostly.
8 There is a provision where we give
9 DCJS an ability to examine whether or not there
10 should be some employers included in that.
11 But just for the edification of our
12 colleagues and for the public, if you are
13 authorized or mandated to fingerprint, you would
14 have access to records. Law enforcement, DAs,
15 courts, their access to sealed records does not
16 change at all.
17 We have also included, through
18 feedback from stakeholders, a new caregiver
19 provision that says if you are hiring someone to
20 do work inside your home to take care of an
21 elderly person or to take care of a child for
22 more than 15 hours a week, you can conduct that
23 background check. And again, this was meant to
24 allay concerns about work with sensitive
25 populations.
6825
1 SENATOR PALUMBO: Will the sponsor
2 continue to yield, please.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Will the
4 sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR PALUMBO: And, Senator,
9 what would be the mechanism for someone, say, who
10 is hiring a home health aide or somebody who is
11 going to take care of a vulnerable person, how
12 would they go about getting a background check on
13 someone?
14 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
15 Madam President. If it is through an agency,
16 typically that is through the agency process, and
17 they would have a mechanism to do that.
18 If it is not through an agency, that
19 DCJS provision that I mentioned where they are
20 tasked with promulgating regulations would allow
21 for them to determine how they could get that
22 background check.
23 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you.
24 Would the sponsor continue to yield,
25 please.
6826
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR PALUMBO: So if someone
7 chooses not to hire someone that has a prior
8 conviction, is there any sort of civil liability
9 in that regard with respect to declining
10 employment as a result of a prior conviction?
11 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
12 Madam President. That -- in that hypothetical,
13 that employer may be running afoul of Article 23
14 of our Executive Law that prohibits
15 discrimination based on criminal records. But
16 that's not something that's contained within this
17 bill.
18 SENATOR PALUMBO: Will the sponsor
19 continue to yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
21 continue to yield?
22 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
6827
1 Senator.
2 And just as far as the overall
3 process, I'm trying to get a handle on -- and
4 really I'll just kind of cut to the chase, where
5 I'm trying to get a feeling for someone who might
6 have access -- for example, endangering the
7 welfare of a child, misdemeanor, automatic
8 sealing. If I don't have a daycare center or a
9 licensed agency, but say I own a restaurant, a
10 Chuck E. Cheese. So just because that individual
11 doesn't have so-called regular access to children
12 doesn't mean they won't have the ability to harm
13 a child because of that employment.
14 So some of that information I think
15 would be important. And this is where the rub
16 has always been between us, that the issue of --
17 it's almost as if it's a gotcha. The fact that
18 we're hiding these, intentionally sealing these
19 from an employer and making a -- making it a
20 cause of action for damages in the event you
21 improperly access these records -- I just want to
22 find that distinction on the process of sealing.
23 And I'm going to talk a little bit
24 about the overall -- the manner in which someone
25 could access it or if there are any exceptions to
6828
1 access, if there are situations where down the
2 road maybe some judicial review could be
3 available or if there's an proper sealing of
4 records, what the relief is. So that's kind of a
5 global area where I'll go in like the next
6 10 minutes, if I can.
7 But generally speaking, what
8 would -- what is the process of sealing that is
9 required in here? Because I see that there are
10 some mandatory requirements on law enforcement
11 and district attorney's offices which I'll have a
12 few questions on as well.
13 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
14 Madam President. I don't want to ask you to
15 yield, but I'm not sure of the exact question.
16 SENATOR PALUMBO: And if you would
17 continue to yield, let me just clarify that.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Yes, the
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR PALUMBO: I'll tighten it
21 up. I just wanted to kind of give you a general
22 idea and then try and maybe, you know, move
23 through it quickly.
24 But what is the process of sealing
25 for law enforcement? What is the mandatory
6829
1 process of sealing in this bill?
2 (Pause.)
3 SENATOR PALUMBO: Just to be clear,
4 Senator Myrie, what would the -- really, what
5 items are sealed? Like what -- that's kind of
6 what I'm looking for. You know, it's
7 fingerprints, photographs, things like that.
8 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
9 Madam President. Any document or digital item
10 associated with that file would have to be marked
11 "sealed."
12 I would take this opportunity to
13 note that in the first iteration of this bill, we
14 didn't just have sealing, we had expungement.
15 And expungement is the total destruction of the
16 record. And after consultation with district
17 attorneys and law enforcement officials, we moved
18 to a sealing regime and not an expungement, so
19 that we can still allow for law enforcement to
20 have access to those records. It would just be
21 marked "sealed" for most civil purposes.
22 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you.
23 Would the sponsor continue to yield,
24 please.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
6830
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR PALUMBO: Is there any
6 mechanism in which someone who has a small
7 business and is looking to hire, for example, a
8 bookkeeper, is there any manner in which they can
9 access sealed records of someone to see if they
10 have, you know, larceny convictions and so forth?
11 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
12 Madam President. If they do not meet the
13 licensing mandate authorization requirement or if
14 they are not explicitly mentioned in this bill,
15 they would not.
16 And I think this is an important
17 point. We have -- I think the discussion around
18 this boils down to what we view redemption as and
19 what we view opportunity as. And in the business
20 context, it hasn't just been, you know, the
21 Senator Myrie Show on Economic Opportunity, it
22 has been Fortune 500 companies, it has been many
23 Chambers of Commerce, it's been the largest
24 financial institution in our nation, as well as a
25 number of other businesses. Who, by the way,
6831
1 aren't just hypothesizing about the ability to
2 give opportunity, but who themselves have had
3 experience hiring formerly incarcerated
4 individuals, who were saying, We support this
5 bill because in many instances these are some of
6 the best workers we get.
7 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
8 Senator.
9 Will the sponsor continue to yield.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
11 continue to yield?
12 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR PALUMBO: And I'm -- the
16 time is moving quickly, so I'm going to move on
17 to one little area, because we may have a few
18 more questioners.
19 There is one section, I was just
20 looking to find it, that provides for a liability
21 release for businesses. And I just want to find
22 it, if I could read the specific language.
23 (Pause.)
24 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
25 Madam President. Senator Palumbo, page 7, I
6832
1 think starting line 22.
2 SENATOR PALUMBO: Very good. It
3 was a race to see who could find it first. Thank
4 you.
5 SENATOR MYRIE: Pretty good counsel
6 on our side.
7 (Laughter.)
8 SENATOR PALUMBO: It's a battle. I
9 think ours might be better, but we're not going
10 to start that right now.
11 Okay, in any civil action -- thank
12 you for that -- "an official record of a
13 conviction that has been sealed pursuant to this
14 section may not be introduced as evidence of
15 negligence against any person or entity that
16 provided employment, contract labor or services,
17 volunteer work, licensing, tenancy, a home
18 purchase, a mortgage, an education, a loan, or
19 insurance if such record was sealed and was not
20 provided to the person or entity by or on behalf
21 of a governmental entity in accordance with this
22 section in response to such person's or entity's
23 authorized and timely request for conviction
24 history information." They may not have a duty.
25 And the bottom line where my
6833
1 question is going is that we're essentially
2 providing immunity -- I'm assuming this is for a
3 negligent hiring case. So if you have someone
4 who maybe has a history of violence, for example,
5 you stab someone, even if you shoot someone,
6 those are still sealable offenses. Assault in
7 the first degree. Stabbing, shooting, they don't
8 die. Even attempted murder is a B. So that's
9 not an A felony. So attempted murder would get
10 sealed under this statute after eight years if
11 you meet the criteria.
12 And then you hire someone, and they
13 assault a fellow employee or something happens.
14 This is essentially granting a release to the
15 employer. And now there were some discussions
16 we've had in previous iterations about the, you
17 know, Business Council and other businesses
18 coming out saying, We love this. So I'm assuming
19 there were conversations with them that I could
20 see how they -- why they like it.
21 So my question is, why is this
22 provision and this general immunity necessary in
23 the event that, you know, what we've always been
24 discussing, that this is a public safety bill. I
25 think you even said it today. If this is a
6834
1 public safety bill, then why do we need to
2 provide immunity from liability to businesses
3 that may have an untoward result as a result of
4 hiring someone with a sealed conviction?
5 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
6 Madam President. And I appreciate the question.
7 I would clarify that in the tragic
8 event that an individual would commit a crime --
9 I'm assuming this would have to be connected with
10 their employment, if we are in the negligence
11 field, that it's not that the person would escape
12 accountability. That person would, one, have the
13 clock start all over again. Two, be subject to
14 whatever penalty, after an adjudication of the
15 facts, and they would suffer the consequences of
16 that action.
17 We are trying to encourage
18 businesses to not have a very unlikely event
19 prevent them from giving individuals economic
20 opportunity.
21 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you.
22 Will the sponsor continue to yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
24 continue to yield?
25 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
6835
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
2 sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR PALUMBO: And thank you,
4 Senator.
5 But in that regard, now, we are
6 denying justice for someone who has now suffered
7 a harm at the hand of someone and might
8 appropriately be able to seek relief from their
9 employer.
10 And my position has always been
11 that's for the finder of fact to decide whether
12 or not they were negligent in their hiring of
13 this person. But to outright deny the admission
14 of that certificate of conviction under, I guess,
15 B4518 or whatever the section is of the CPLR, to
16 let it come into evidence, I disagree with. And
17 that's more of a comment than anything. So we
18 can agree to disagree on that.
19 I only have one more area and --
20 hang on one second. (Pause.) I had a question
21 just generally from an informational
22 standpoint --
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Excuse me,
24 Senator Palumbo. Are you asking the sponsor to
25 yield?
6836
1 SENATOR PALUMBO: Would the sponsor
2 continue to yield, please.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
4 sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you.
9 Just from an informational
10 standpoint, can someone -- if these records are
11 sealed, and similar to -- and the question I
12 think is in the context of like an ACOD where it
13 renders the case annullity is in the statute --
14 can they deny that they've been convicted?
15 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
16 Madam President. So yes. However, it is
17 contextual. So if the -- if they're in a new
18 criminal case and that past conviction can be
19 proffered as an element of that new alleged
20 crime, then yes, they would have to admit to that
21 and that would be looked into.
22 But for purposes of applying for
23 employment or housing, they could -- they would
24 not have to say that they were convicted.
25 SENATOR PALUMBO: And did you say
6837
1 they would not have to, for housing?
2 SENATOR MYRIE: They would not have
3 to.
4 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you.
5 Senator Myrie, thank you.
6 On the bill, please,
7 Madam President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
9 Palumbo on the bill.
10 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you.
11 And I certainly appreciate -- as you
12 folks heard, we have discussed this at length.
13 And, you know, we've had -- we've agreed to
14 disagree on some aspects for quite some time.
15 And this final version,
16 unfortunately, Madam President, I can't support
17 for a lot of those reasons that I discussed, and
18 even a few more. And let me give a few examples,
19 if I may.
20 The out-of-state conviction or
21 pending case issue is still a bit of an issue.
22 That was a concern, I think, from many district
23 attorneys associations, law enforcement, and the
24 general public.
25 But we still don't have a proper
6838
1 mechanism to make sure that there is possibly,
2 prior to sealing -- maybe you run a new
3 background check, run a new fingerprint NYSIIS.
4 You shouldn't have to just get this without
5 showing some type of rehabilitation or making an
6 effort of some kind. Because you can continue to
7 get arrested and continue to get arrested and
8 continue to get arrested unlimited amounts of
9 time.
10 And that's why I've always said
11 incrementally this might have been a good idea.
12 We've seen criminal justice reforms that are not
13 done incrementally that are done with a triple
14 jump over the line -- I don't want to say the
15 word bail reform, but I just did. We have four
16 iterations of that bill that I still think is bad
17 for society and unsafe. And that was --
18 reluctantly, there were changes made, and more
19 needs to be done.
20 So we can't jump at these ideas
21 because there are certain things -- and I've said
22 this on the floor. Talk about discovery. As a
23 practicing lawyer for many years, there were
24 changes that were needed, without question. Even
25 to bail, there were changes that I agree were
6839
1 certainly needed. Just not the ones that we have
2 in front of us.
3 So I'm very concerned. If you have
4 a cleaning service for homes, it would be good to
5 know -- you're not eligible under this particular
6 bill, but it would be good to know that the
7 person that's applying for the job has five
8 burglaries, or maybe even an armed robbery, a
9 home invasion robbery, that is sealable
10 automatically under this.
11 And I think we should all -- we
12 absolutely want people to be rehabilitated. I've
13 said this many times as someone who's been
14 involved with the criminal justice system as a
15 prosecutor, my dad was a homicide detective. It
16 is about compassion. We don't want people --
17 nobody feels good about prosecuting someone and
18 sending them to jail or seeing another victim
19 come into their office. That's not fun.
20 The point of our system is to get
21 people back on the right track, and I agree.
22 This, unfortunately, is too excessive. It's
23 somewhat vague in some circumstances -- I think
24 the ability for DCJS to have the opportunity to
25 maybe make some decisions about if someone fits
6840
1 the criteria. But we need to start expansively
2 and then to move it in slowly until we find that
3 right balance. And that's always been my
4 concern.
5 And lastly, when it comes to a
6 liability release, that's the sort of thing that
7 I do not think is good for us in any
8 circumstance. Because businesses can hire people
9 with felony convictions today. They don't even
10 need to make their application. You can do it
11 all day.
12 So this isn't an impediment so much
13 on someone who's walking around with a stigma for
14 the rest of their lives. And I know it's my
15 opinion, but the person that is truly suffering
16 because of a conviction from 20 years ago will
17 make the effort under our current statute to go
18 back to court, maybe even get Legal Aid assigned
19 if they had to, but to make a simple motion --
20 which is a free filing fee -- in the criminal
21 court in order to get that prior conviction
22 sealed.
23 So -- and again, I have a lot of
24 respect for the sponsor. We've been talking
25 about this for years. And the statistics he
6841
1 provided, I don't dispute them. And that's great
2 news that there are people -- that the
3 overwhelming majority of people have one or two
4 convictions.
5 But that's the point,
6 Madam President. That's why we made those
7 changes. Because the people who are living their
8 life in accordance with the rules of society --
9 everybody stubs their toe. Many people, more
10 than once. But eight, nine, 10 times?
11 Eventually, accountability has to set in.
12 And for those reasons I'll be voting
13 no, and I urge my colleagues to do the same.
14 Thank you, Madam President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
16 Murray -- oh, sorry. Senator Weber.
17 SENATOR WEBER: Madam President,
18 would the sponsor yield for some questions?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Will the
20 sponsor yield?
21 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR WEBER: Thank you. Thank
25 you, Senator Myrie. Just a few questions that
6842
1 I'd like to just, you know, have a conversation
2 with you about.
3 Is there a limit to the number of
4 convictions that can be sealed?
5 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
6 Madam President, there is not.
7 But I would repeat the refrain that
8 it only takes one charge to restart the clock.
9 And so the likelihood that an individual who has
10 already served their sentence, who has had to
11 remain conviction- and charge-free for a certain
12 amount of time, who has been denied economic,
13 educational, housing opportunities -- the
14 likelihood that that individual is going to put
15 their ability to access these things at risk is
16 incredibly, incredibly low.
17 SENATOR WEBER: Through you,
18 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
19 yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR WEBER: So thank you for
6843
1 that answer.
2 Would a landlord, for example -- you
3 know, there's a lot of mixed-use properties
4 where, you know, there could be a childcare
5 center downstairs and residential units upstairs.
6 Would a landlord have access to someone's records
7 that are sealed?
8 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
9 Madam President. If they are sealed, they will
10 not have access to that.
11 SENATOR WEBER: Thank you.
12 Madam President, would the sponsor
13 continue to yield?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Will the
15 sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR WEBER: Okay, thank you.
20 And, you know, some of the
21 additional questions I've heard from district
22 attorneys -- and I'm sure you've heard from
23 similar ones in the past -- is, you know, a lot
24 of crimes, especially felonies, are
25 plea-bargained down to, say, misdemeanors.
6844
1 Right? And it's becoming more and more common,
2 especially in New York City with DA Braggs kind
3 of -- his office has kind of gone in that
4 direction.
5 Does that concern you, that there
6 are people that are really violent that really
7 plead down to, you know, less violent crimes just
8 for the convenience of the court, that their
9 records will be sealed and their -- you know,
10 they'll be out or at least sealed in a quicker
11 fashion?
12 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
13 Madam President. I think my colleague on the
14 other side is actually making a good point about
15 the current state of affairs in our criminal
16 legal system. Almost 98 percent of outcomes are
17 driven not by a trial, but by plea.
18 And if we want to have a
19 conversation about whether we should reduce the
20 amount of pleas that drive the system and whether
21 we should be having more trials or that we should
22 be having more extensive adjudication, I am very
23 willing to have that conversation.
24 And I would also note that this
25 isn't just limited to one DA in one particular
6845
1 borough, but that's for the entire state:
2 98 percent are adjudicated by guilty pleas. And
3 that is the system that we have. That is the
4 system that we have set up, where you're presumed
5 innocent, and then you go through the process and
6 you reach to a conviction.
7 The system does concern me because
8 it is overwhelmingly done by pleas. But it does
9 not concern me as it relates to this, because the
10 process has already played out and you have
11 served your sentence according to that process.
12 If the DA in a hypothetical is
13 pleading down or offering to plead down a
14 particular charge, I think your issue might be
15 with the DA even offering that in the first
16 place. There is a reason why they do that, and I
17 think that that's a conversation that I'm happy
18 to have at a later tame.
19 SENATOR WEBER: Thank you.
20 And through you, Madam President,
21 will the sponsor continue to yield?
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
23 sponsor yield?
24 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
6846
1 sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR WEBER: Staying with
3 district attorneys, you know, there's a lot of
4 district attorney's offices, especially in the
5 outer boroughs, outside of the big cities,
6 that -- you know, they're small, right? And it
7 will be very burdensome and very costly for them
8 to go through the whole process of sealing.
9 Has there been any consideration in
10 terms of funding to help out those offices deal
11 with that?
12 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
13 Madam President. In our conversations with the
14 other house and with the Executive, the estimates
15 are around 10 to 20 million on what it would
16 cost.
17 I would also note that in our
18 one-house we proposed to add money in for the
19 implementation of this.
20 And I would also note, while we are
21 speaking of DAs, that the Brooklyn district
22 attorney, the Manhattan district attorney, the
23 Queens district attorney, and the Bronx district
24 attorney have all said on the record that they
25 support the Clean Slate Act.
6847
1 SENATOR WEBER: And through you,
2 Madam President, will the sponsor continue to
3 yield?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
5 sponsor yield?
6 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR WEBER: I didn't hear the
10 full entire -- the list. But my question was
11 really geared towards a lot of the smaller
12 jurisdictions, the smaller district attorneys.
13 Have they also indicated their
14 support for this?
15 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
16 Madam President. The only district attorneys
17 that have indicated their support publicly were
18 the ones that I just listed.
19 But I take your point on the smaller
20 offices and their need for resources, and we
21 would be happy to provide and support that by way
22 of appropriation, just as we have for some of the
23 other changes to the criminal legal system over
24 the past couple of years.
25 SENATOR WEBER: Right, thank you.
6848
1 And through you, Madam President,
2 will the sponsor continue to yield?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
4 sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR WEBER: In terms of -- I
9 heard some conversations with Senator Palumbo
10 before regarding, you know, bookkeepers and, you
11 know, the concern about employers not having
12 access to records for people who have been, you
13 know, convicted of a financial crime.
14 But getting past that, if a company
15 does, say, a Google search -- you know, a lot of
16 companies do not only background checks, whether
17 they use these private services or ADP. If
18 people do Google searches or other independent
19 searches, and based on those searches decide not
20 to hire somebody who has their record sealed,
21 what happens in that situation?
22 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
23 Madam President. They are potentially liable,
24 not under the Clean Slate Act, but under a law
25 that is already on the books in Article 23 of the
6849
1 Executive Law that prohibits discrimination based
2 on criminal history.
3 SENATOR WEBER: Okay. Thank you.
4 And through you, Madam President,
5 will the sponsor continue to yield?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
7 continue to yield?
8 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR WEBER: Thank you for that
12 answer.
13 And I have a question regarding --
14 one second. There's some language in there
15 regarding, you know, obviously law enforcement
16 and other related agencies have access to certain
17 sealed records -- for those sealed records. Was
18 there ever any consideration to having other
19 areas or other type of employers or potential
20 employers having access to such records?
21 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
22 Madam President, this has been I'd say at the
23 center of this conversation, the notion that a
24 business or a potential employer should have
25 access to records regardless of whether that
6850
1 touches on the nature of the employment and
2 whether that might impact their decision making.
3 And I think the core of this bill is
4 that you should not be serving this punishment in
5 perpetuity based a conviction that you've already
6 served your time for. And I know that we're not
7 going to agree on this philosophically. But what
8 we -- what I and many of the supporters of this
9 bill believe, including our business community,
10 is that you are not the worst thing that you've
11 ever done.
12 And the numbers bear this out, that
13 individuals even with the most severe records,
14 the most severe offenses, are highly unlikely to
15 reoffend and to commit those again. If there is
16 anyone that has an appreciation for the
17 consequences of their actions, it is an
18 individual who has served their time and who has
19 subsequently remained charge-free.
20 So, you know, I keep coming back to
21 that because, you know, I think we're going to
22 continue to have the questions about who should
23 have access and when. And what we have done in
24 this bill is say that if you work with
25 particularly vulnerable populations, that you --
6851
1 or if you're mandated or authorized to
2 fingerprint, then you should have access. And I
3 think we can understand that conceptually, why
4 that is important.
5 We've gone even a step further.
6 When the State Education Department reached out
7 to us and made known their concerns about access
8 to their records, we made extensive amendments on
9 the licensing requirements, the professional
10 misconduct requirements, other occupations within
11 the Education Department that deal primarily with
12 children.
13 So we are cognizant that this --
14 that the notion that vulnerable populations
15 should continue to have access, that is something
16 that is in this bill. And in addition, what I
17 mentioned to Senator Palumbo, some latitude with
18 the Division of Criminal Justice Services to make
19 some determinations down the road.
20 SENATOR WEBER: And through you,
21 Madam President, will the sponsor continue to
22 yield?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
24 continue to yield?
25 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
6852
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
2 sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR WEBER: Kind of where I was
4 going with this, and kind of where I was kind of
5 trying to merge the two things together in terms
6 of when I was talking about, you know, the
7 progression of crimes being, you know, downgraded
8 by various district attorneys around the state,
9 and also who has access, you know, what kind of
10 business would have access to records.
11 You know, there's cases that I'd be
12 concerned about, you know, if you have a private
13 daycare center and you have people that drive
14 private buses for those daycare centers, and you
15 have people that -- maybe a husband assaults his
16 wife or he abuses a kid. And what we've seen
17 with various district attorneys downgrading a lot
18 of these crimes, right, that being sealed and
19 that person being able to drive that bus in that
20 hypothetical private daycare center and not
21 having the access to know what that person's
22 violent background -- not what it was pled down
23 to, but what that really -- that person's real
24 violent, you know, background is.
25 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
6853
1 Madam President. I'm assuming the question is
2 just to respond to what the concerns were.
3 I'd say first, in the driving
4 context, that all of those remain accessible.
5 Anything that touches on the traffic or vehicle
6 law, any violations of the Vehicle and Traffic
7 Law will remain accessible. DMV must provide
8 access to those records.
9 And I'd say, more broadly, that I
10 think, Senator Weber, your concern is with the
11 process by which DAs plead down and not with this
12 bill. Because this bill does not touch on
13 what -- how the adjudication happens or how that
14 outcome is arrived at. This deals with after
15 that has been determined and after the conviction
16 and sentence has been served.
17 I would reiterate that I'm happy to
18 have a conversation about how we can change that
19 process, how we might be able to make it more
20 fair. And, you know, I think you're saying there
21 should be more accuracy in what the charges are
22 or what the conviction and sentence is. I'm
23 happy to have that conversation. This bill
24 doesn't touch on that process at all.
25 SENATOR WEBER: Okay. Thank you.
6854
1 And through you, Madam President,
2 will the sponsor continue to yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
4 sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR WEBER: Here's a question
9 that probably my daughter would kill me if I
10 didn't ask. But for like animal abuse crimes,
11 are they eligible for sealing?
12 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
13 Madam President, yes.
14 SENATOR WEBER: Okay, thank you.
15 And through you, Madam President,
16 will the sponsor continue to yield.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
18 sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR WEBER: Would an animal
23 shelter or a veterinarian's office be able to
24 access a sealed animal abuse conviction for a
25 prospective employee or volunteer?
6855
1 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
2 Madam President, if the record is sealed and that
3 shelter does not have authorization or a mandate
4 to fingerprint, they would not have access.
5 SENATOR WEBER: And through you,
6 Madam President, will the sponsor continue to
7 yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
9 continue to yield?
10 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR WEBER: Thank you.
14 You know, that's obviously
15 concerning. You know, when you watch all of
16 these police shows and crime shows, you know,
17 obviously people that abuse animals are more --
18 you know, more apt to continue that crime in a
19 more violent way against, you know, humans.
20 So, you know, was that ever
21 considered or a question throughout the process
22 about, you know, the -- how -- you know, people
23 that are inclined to abuse animals or have
24 something wrong and are going to probably commit
25 further crimes throughout their lifetime?
6856
1 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
2 Madam President, I will not speculate about
3 future crimes or someone's propensity to commit a
4 crime. We actually have a lot built into our
5 legal system, particularly in the evidence
6 context, about using past convictions as a
7 forecast into an individual's propensity to
8 commit a future crime.
9 But I'll say that animal abuse is
10 abhorrent. None of us support that. And no one
11 should abuse an animal. We have a system set up
12 in place such that if you are found guilty of
13 abusing an animal, you will suffer the
14 consequences.
15 And if we want to have a discussion
16 about, you know, animal shelters or entities
17 dealing directly with animals requiring
18 background checks or being authorized to use
19 background checks for their employees, we can do
20 that. We can -- or you can introduce a bill, and
21 we can go through the democratic process of
22 determining whether or not that is an employer
23 that should have that type of access.
24 But as it stands now, they do not,
25 and so they would not have access to those sealed
6857
1 records.
2 SENATOR WEBER: Okay, thank you.
3 Thank you, Sponsor.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
5 Murray, why do you rise?
6 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you,
7 Madam President. I'd like to go on the bill,
8 please.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
10 Murray on the bill.
11 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
12 So first I wanted to say that I
13 appreciate my colleagues Senator Palumbo,
14 Senator Weber, digging deep into the bill and
15 getting into the details and the crux of all the
16 different details, all the different crimes and
17 things like this.
18 I think I'm going to take a little
19 different approach, rather than going into the
20 details of the bill. What I want to talk about
21 is the message that we are sending to New Yorkers
22 through this bill and other bills that have
23 passed recently, particularly the message that
24 we're sending to crime victims and the loved ones
25 and the family members of crime victims.
6858
1 So in a previous debate the Senator
2 had mentioned something about the perception or
3 the appearance of doing harm to families, and I
4 believe he was quoted as saying "perception is
5 reality." Well, the perception we are sending
6 and have been sending over the past couple of
7 years to crime victims, the reality that they see
8 is that we just don't care. That the criminals
9 matter so much more.
10 And let me be clear. We're not
11 talking about accused, we're talking about
12 convicted criminals, those that have either pled
13 guilty or those that have been found guilty by a
14 jury of their peers or by the judge. They were
15 guilty, they committed the crime. And what
16 crimes are we talking about? Manslaughter,
17 vehicular homicide, vehicular assault, other
18 assaults -- gang assaults, assaults on police
19 officers, attempted murder in the second degree.
20 I named those -- I'm not going to go down the
21 whole list.
22 I named those because the one thing
23 that all of those crimes have in common is each
24 one had a victim. Somebody was either killed or
25 somebody was hurt. They had a victim who
6859
1 suffered, a completely innocent person who did
2 nothing wrong and their life was changed forever
3 by this. Or they're not here with us anymore,
4 their life was taken. And they did nothing
5 wrong.
6 The criminal chose to commit the
7 crime. The criminal said, your life doesn't
8 matter. The criminal said, I want your property.
9 I want what you have, and you don't deserve it.
10 I'm just going to take it, and I don't care what
11 you think. I don't care what you feel. I don't
12 care of the impact to you or your family. I
13 don't care. I want it. I'm going to do it.
14 They made the decision to commit the
15 crime. The victim didn't. The victims had no
16 choice. But guess what the victims don't get?
17 They don't get a second chance. They don't get a
18 clean slate. They don't get to seal their
19 memories away. They're going to relive it over
20 and over again. You know how I know? Because
21 I've spoken to them.
22 A little earlier this year I went to
23 a vigil for the Long Island parents and other
24 survivors of murder victims, where we sat in a
25 room full of grieving people, family members,
6860
1 loved ones, spouses, sisters, brothers, friends.
2 And we sat and listened as they read off the
3 families of over 600 murdered victims. Everyone
4 in that room had the same thing in common. They
5 were in pain, and they knew that pain will never
6 go away. It won't be sealed, it won't be erased.
7 They don't get a second chance. They will relive
8 it over and over again.
9 You know, I've heard where some
10 groups that have supported this bill -- and I had
11 heard in previous -- not tonight, I didn't hear
12 it tonight, but I've heard previously there was
13 mention that some crime victims groups -- let me
14 be clear. Those are crime victims groups, groups
15 that offer services to crime victims, and they
16 support it. There were no actual victims that
17 supported it.
18 In fact, Jennifer Harrison is the
19 executive director of Victims Rights New York.
20 There was a Zoom or some sort of a meeting that
21 was held online where you could go on and talk
22 about Clean Slate, so she logged on. And when
23 she tried -- identified herself and tried to ask
24 a question, she was muted and not allowed to even
25 ask the question. That was very interesting.
6861
1 But when I was at that vigil and I
2 talked to these family members, first I spoke
3 briefly, gave my condolences, told them how sorry
4 I was to them. But their questions to me is,
5 What are you guys thinking up there? Why is it
6 all about the criminals? What about us?
7 Why would they say that? Well, let
8 me see. Cashless bail we've approved. Raise the
9 Age. Raise the Age, where we raised the age of
10 criminal responsibility because, you know, if
11 they're under 18, they didn't know any better,
12 they're just kids. You know, like the 14- and
13 15-year-olds in Mastic Beach this past summer
14 that broke in and brutally beat and raped a
15 woman. Ah, but they were just kids, right? So
16 they went to Family Court. That woman will
17 never, ever be the same.
18 Again, we talk about the victims and
19 the perception. Go to Less is More, where it's
20 harder now to violate someone who gets out on
21 parole and can't even follow the directions of
22 what they're supposed to do. Oh, you failed a
23 drug test? Ah, don't worry about it, no big
24 deal. Oh, you failed to report to your parole
25 officer? Ah, we'll let you slide. Because
6862
1 you -- you need a second chance. No problem.
2 And now we're talking about
3 Clean Slate. Again, the message we are sending
4 to these poor victims is appalling. And you
5 can't -- you can't blame them. You hear
6 stories -- when I was there, I heard stories --
7 and believe me, these are real. The family that
8 split up because the woman was so petrified after
9 a violent home invasion where they beat her and
10 they separated the family and she didn't know if
11 their kids were going to get killed, she didn't
12 know if she was going to get raped. But she gets
13 beaten. And she's so petrified, and she relives
14 the trauma over and over, that she can never be
15 intimate with her husband again. They end up
16 divorcing, splitting up.
17 Do they get to start over? Do they
18 get a clean slate? These are real stories.
19 These really happened.
20 Or the children that see their
21 parents in a carjacking or, again, a violent home
22 invasion, and they grow up harming themselves,
23 cutting themselves, harming, doing things to
24 themselves because they're trying to deal with
25 the trauma that they can't erase from their
6863
1 minds. Do they get a second chance? Do they get
2 a clean slate? No.
3 Earlier the sponsor was giving out
4 some stats. Let me give you a couple of stats.
5 One hundred percent of the murder victims will
6 not get a second chance. One hundred percent of
7 the loved ones and family members and sisters and
8 brothers will not get to see or will not get over
9 the crime that was committed to their loved one.
10 One hundred percent. Now, that is a stat we
11 should be thinking about.
12 So when you think about, when you're
13 voting on this bill tonight, think about the
14 message we're sending to the crime victims.
15 Because, listen, with all this, the cashless
16 bail, the Raise the Age, Less is More, we've got
17 more and more crime victims these days. And the
18 message we're sending to them is: Get over it.
19 They deserve the second chance: Just deal with
20 it.
21 For that reason, there's no chance I
22 will be voting for this bill.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
24 Borrello, why do you rise?
25 SENATOR BORRELLO: On the bill,
6864
1 Madam President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
3 Borrello on the bill.
4 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
5 Madam President.
6 We've heard a lot of talk this
7 evening, and I can tell you that I do believe in
8 giving someone a second chance. And when I say
9 that, I'm not just saying that. I have employed
10 people who have been formerly incarcerated. So
11 when I say I believe it, I don't just talk the
12 talk, I walk the walk.
13 I have somebody in my employ right
14 now who was formerly incarcerated. But I knew
15 full well, going in, what that person's
16 background was, what they did. But I'm a small
17 business owner, and I have the right to have that
18 judgment, with full knowledge.
19 So when you talk about right now who
20 is currently employing formerly incarcerated
21 people here in New York State, you know who it
22 is? It's small business owners like me. It's
23 not those big corporations. It's not the people
24 that all of a sudden now jumped out of the
25 woodwork to say "We support this." No, it's
6865
1 people like me.
2 So we have to ask ourselves, why all
3 of a sudden do we have this turnaround -- the
4 Business Council, so forth. Well, I really
5 believe it has a lot to do with this civil
6 liability shield. Now, this applies to
7 everyone -- small business, big business,
8 individuals. I get that.
9 But if you're a small business owner
10 and you hire someone that you have no knowledge
11 of what they have done, and something goes wrong,
12 chances are it's going wrong to you or your loved
13 one, the family member that works in your
14 business, or the people that you know.
15 What happens if it goes wrong, you
16 know, at an Amazon warehouse, a guy who has a
17 history of violence assaults a fellow worker in
18 the Amazon warehouse? Well, you think Jeff Bezos
19 gives a -- damn? No. But he wants that
20 liability shield. He wants to be protected from
21 having to pay the price.
22 But for me or my fellow small
23 business owners, that really doesn't matter.
24 Because the damage that will be done has more to
25 do with anything but money. It has to do with
6866
1 the impact it's going to have on the people that
2 I know and love and work with every day.
3 You know, I hear a lot from my
4 colleagues on the other side of the aisle about
5 the Republican Party is the party of big business
6 and corporations. Well, I would say that this is
7 a big gift to those big corporations. In fact,
8 I've been here for three years. I don't remember
9 ever giving anyone kind of a civil liability
10 shield, do you? When was the last time we gave
11 anybody a civil liability shield from this
12 Legislature? In fact, we probably passed a
13 hundred bills that have a private right of
14 action. This bill has a private right of action.
15 We actually incubate civil liability lawsuits
16 here in this chamber. That's really what we do.
17 And that's my concern. The folks
18 that are in favor of this all of a sudden,
19 they're not being altruistic. They're being
20 opportunistic.
21 But at the end of the day, this is
22 not good for business. And I know I'm hearing,
23 yes, it is, there's a million people right now
24 that have convictions. Because these big
25 corporations, they could hire them right now. It
6867
1 was mentioned earlier, there's literally nothing
2 stopping any of those businesses from hiring a
3 formerly incarcerated person. I do it, other
4 small business owners do it.
5 They have policies against it,
6 because it's going to cost them money if
7 something goes wrong. Now it won't. But the
8 emotional impact of something going wrong isn't
9 going to be visited upon those folks sitting in a
10 board room a thousand miles away. And that's the
11 problem with this. If these folks were all in,
12 they would have done this without a civil
13 liability shield. If they were so altruistic,
14 they would have done it without that protection.
15 But they're not. And that's the problem with
16 this bill, in my opinion.
17 So what are we going to get from
18 taking this giant risk? Are we going to be
19 tracking the statistics, the workforce
20 participation rate? Is it going to go up? Are
21 we going to see, all of a sudden, all these open
22 positions filled because we have a million
23 New Yorkers that can't work because of a prior
24 criminal conviction? Maybe, maybe not. But I
25 don't think there's anything in this bill that
6868
1 actually asks us to track that information, to
2 see if the risk we're taking actually pays off
3 for New York.
4 Are we going to see lower rates of
5 recidivism? Because right now they're going up,
6 not down. Will we see lower rates of recidivism
7 in New York State as a result of this bill? I
8 suspect we won't. But then again, no one's going
9 to actually look to see that if that actually
10 happened. That's not required in this bill.
11 So there's a lot of flaws that have
12 been pointed out. But at the end of the day, I
13 do believe in a second chance. But with this
14 bill and the unlimited number of times that
15 people get, I don't believe in a 22nd chance. So
16 I'll be voting no.
17 Thank you, Madam President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
19 Martins, are you desiring to speak on the bill?
20 SENATOR MARTINS: (Inaudible.)
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Well, I'm
22 not inviting you.
23 (Laughter.)
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: I have
25 your name on -- I was given your name --
6869
1 SENATOR MARTINS: I viewed that
2 there was an invitation there, so --
3 SENATOR MAYER: No.
4 (Laughter.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: I was not
6 inviting you. I -- do you rise to speak on the
7 bill?
8 SENATOR MARTINS: I'm glad to speak
9 on the bill, Madam President. Thank you very
10 much. On the bill.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
12 Martins on the bill.
13 SENATOR MARTINS: You know, I join
14 with the concerns voiced by my colleagues to this
15 point, that we have policies in this chamber that
16 we've discussed certainly over the years -- we've
17 heard them earlier in our session this year --
18 that appear to prioritize people who commit
19 violent acts, people who have been convicted,
20 whether by a plea or whether by a conviction
21 after trial.
22 Although I do understand the
23 difference between the two, Madam President, and
24 I do think that if there is a plea and that plea
25 results in that being sealed as a result of the
6870
1 bill we're discussing here today, that there is a
2 societal benefit for people to be able to hold
3 others accountable if they continuously break the
4 law and they continuously have an opportunity to
5 hurt others.
6 We are in a position where we have
7 the opportunity to prioritize the rights of
8 victims as against those who are going to
9 protect -- whether they're large corporations,
10 through immunity, whether it's giving people a
11 second chance. But we've heard from people in
12 this chamber about how they have families, they
13 have children, they're concerned about crime,
14 they're concerned about how dangerous it is out
15 there.
16 I share those concerns. I want
17 people held accountable. I believe we are
18 responsible for our actions. I believe adults do
19 have the ability to commit bad acts and should be
20 held accountable for those. I believe that if I
21 commit a crime, I should be held accountable for
22 it. And people should know, in hiring me in the
23 future, that I committed that crime and be able
24 to make those choices, because as an adult I have
25 to take personal responsibility for those things
6871
1 that I do, because that's what I teach my kids as
2 well -- as children, as teenagers, and as adults,
3 that we are responsible for our actions.
4 That used to be a common theme in
5 society, that we took accountability for our
6 actions. We didn't make excuses for bad
7 behavior. It seems like that seems to be all too
8 often the policies that we follow these days.
9 So when it comes to protecting
10 victims or allowing somebody who is harmed the
11 ability to sue, I will stand with the victim a
12 hundred percent of the time.
13 So I'm concerned about this bill.
14 I'm concerned about what it means in society.
15 I'm concerned about businesses that will hire
16 people, as Senator Borrello said, not because
17 they're actually going to go out on a limb and
18 give somebody a second chance -- it's because
19 they have immunity from liability. But that
20 immunity from liability comes at the expense of
21 the victim, who no longer has someone against
22 whom they can actually seek justice.
23 Where are they going,
24 Madam President? Are they coming here to Albany?
25 Are they going to hold the state accountable?
6872
1 The answer's no, they get to hold no one
2 accountable. And that's wrong, civilly or
3 otherwise.
4 So I think we've spoken quite a bit
5 on this topic. I've got to tell you that people
6 I hear from back in my district, this is how they
7 feel. I'm not getting calls from people from my
8 district saying, yeah, you know what,
9 Clean Slate's a great idea. You know what
10 they're saying? We live, we're accountable, we
11 want to be held accountable, we're going to hold
12 other people accountable as well. That's what
13 I'm hearing from people in my district,
14 Madam President.
15 And for that reason, for that
16 reason, for the people back home that we
17 represent, for the people who count on us to make
18 sure that we pass policies here that hold them to
19 the same standard as everyone else, for our
20 obligation to make sure we pass policies here
21 that keep them safe, I'll be voting no.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Are there
23 any other Senators wishing to be heard?
24 Hearing and seeing none, debate is
25 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
6873
1 Read the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 10. This
3 act shall take effect one year after it shall
4 have become a law.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
9 Jackson to explain his vote.
10 SENATOR JACKSON: Thank you,
11 Madam President.
12 My colleagues, I rise in support of
13 S7551A, the Clean Slate Act. This bill
14 represents a crucial step towards creating a
15 fairer and more just society. It recognizes that
16 a criminal record should not define an individual
17 indefinitely and deny them the chance to rebuild
18 their lives and contribute positively to their
19 communities.
20 This legislation ensures that those
21 who have paid their debt to society are not
22 burdened with a lifelong sentence of limited
23 opportunities and poverty. We recognize that
24 rehabilitation is possible and that individuals
25 should be judged by their present actions, not
6874
1 forever haunted by their past mistakes.
2 The Clean Slate Act is not just
3 about providing second chances but about
4 fostering a society that values redemption and
5 believes in the potential for change. By
6 removing unnecessary barriers to employment,
7 education and housing, we open the doors for
8 individuals to rebuild their lives, support their
9 families, and become productive members of
10 society.
11 Moreover, this legislation plays a
12 vital role in addressing systemic inequalities
13 which cannot deny that our criminal justice
14 system has proportionally affected communities of
15 color and low-income families. The Clean Slate
16 Act is an essential step towards achieving equity
17 and promoting social and economic justice.
18 As legislators we have the moral
19 duty to ensure that every person has an equal
20 opportunity to succeed, and send a powerful
21 message that we believe in redemption, fairness,
22 and the transformative powers of second chances.
23 For a society that embraces
24 compassion, justice, and the belief that everyone
25 deserves a chance at a better future,
6875
1 Madam President, I vote aye.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
3 Jackson to be recorded in the affirmative.
4 Senator Krueger to explain her vote.
5 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you,
6 Madam President.
7 You know, a lot of issues are
8 controversial. This one certainly is. But I
9 just have to go on record when I listen to some
10 of my colleagues make completely false statements
11 on the floor -- all of those lists of the victims
12 and specific crimes who would never get a chance
13 at Clean Slate. Clean Slate doesn't apply to any
14 of the crimes that were being described. Those
15 are not the people who will be eligible for
16 Clean Slate.
17 And the sponsor made clear over and
18 over again in his presentation exactly what this
19 bill did. And I sat and listened to it all, and
20 I'm wondering why some of my colleagues don't
21 seem to have listened to any of it.
22 But for the record, there are things
23 this bill does, things this bill doesn't do. And
24 the fact is these are people who have committed
25 crimes, paid their dues to society, and are
6876
1 frankly much more of a risk to all of us in our
2 communities if they don't have a fair chance to
3 move forward for employment, for housing, for
4 family, for their lives.
5 So it is in absolutely their best
6 interests but, perhaps more importantly, our best
7 interests that we move this law forward. And I
8 have no question that I am voting for this bill.
9 Thank you, Madam President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:
11 Senator Krueger to be recorded in the
12 affirmative.
13 Senator Rivera to explain his vote.
14 SENATOR RIVERA: Madam President,
15 Senator Myrie, today is a beautiful day.
16 I've been here 13 years, and I
17 remember the first couple of years in my
18 legislative career I was the ranking member in
19 the Crime Victims, Crime and Corrections
20 Committee. And during that time I saw so many of
21 my colleagues on the other side of the aisle,
22 most of whom have since retired, but who were
23 here for decades. And the vision that they had
24 of how our criminal legal system must be
25 organized is punitive, punitive, punitive.
6877
1 These were folks -- and I can say
2 this for a fact because I saw the types of bills
3 that they introduced, the things that they said,
4 the things that they believed. And sadly,
5 apparently some of my colleagues still believe
6 this: They are these criminals, these people
7 that are over there, different than the rest of
8 us, and they must be put away, never to be heard
9 from again.
10 I am so glad that we are in the
11 Majority now. So glad. So glad. Because that
12 means that things like this, that bills like this
13 can actually happen and we can actually move in a
14 different direction, in a place where the
15 criminal legal system actually believes in
16 redemption. In which we don't use fearmongering
17 to attack something.
18 It's a beautiful day,
19 Madam President. It's a beautiful day. And I am
20 proud to vote in the affirmative.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:
22 Senator Rivera to be recorded in the affirmative.
23 Senator Bailey to explain his vote.
24 SENATOR BAILEY: Thank you,
25 Madam President.
6878
1 To my brother, Senator Zellnor
2 Myrie, thank you. As we say in church, weeping
3 may endure for a night, but joy, joy comes in the
4 morning.
5 You know, I've heard about "Wait,"
6 right? "For years now I have heard the word
7 'Wait!'" We've heard this before. Dr. King
8 said: "It rings in the ear of every Negro with
9 piercing familiarity. This 'Wait' has almost
10 always meant Never.' We must come to see, with
11 one of our distinguished jurists, that 'justice
12 too long delayed is justice denied.'"
13 Wait. Why? Wait to be employed.
14 Wait to eat. When you're hungry, you don't wait
15 to eat.
16 Senator Myrie's mentioned the
17 statistics that 73 percent of the people who have
18 been convicted of a crime have not been convicted
19 of a subsequent crime in over 10 years. Without
20 this piece of legislation.
21 And there's a lot of conflation that
22 goes on about victims and their rights. The
23 Senate Democratic Conference stands for victims'
24 rights under the leadership of Andrea
25 Stewart-Cousins, let's be very clear about that.
6879
1 But the sentence that an individual
2 receives is part of that right, sort of the dues
3 that -- part of the dues they pay to society.
4 Then, depending on the nature of the offense,
5 that either three- or eight-year wait that they
6 still have to wait, Madam President, is part of
7 the debt that they pay to society. How much more
8 do you want people to pay when they can't pay?
9 People will say that they're not
10 asking for that in their districts. They're
11 asking for it in mine. Senator Bailey, I don't
12 have a job. I got jammed up when I was 17, when
13 I was 18, I was dumb and young. But I can't find
14 any way to live, my kids don't have anything to
15 eat, and I don't have a job. These are what my
16 constituents are saying. In the 36th Senatorial
17 District, Northeast Bronx and Mount Vernon,
18 that's what they're asking me: I need your help.
19 Well, we're here. And I know that
20 some of my colleagues on the other side of the
21 aisle, I know that they truly do believe in
22 redemption and second chances. I'm asking you,
23 what does a formerly incarcerated individual look
24 like? They might look like my man Eddie Gibbs,
25 one of the best Assemblymembers that we have.
6880
1 Let us not judge an individual by the worst thing
2 that they have ever done. Maybe one day they can
3 grow up and be an Assemblyman. Wouldn't that be
4 nice.
5 You know, people can change. People
6 can change. You know, it's not how many times
7 you're knocked down, Madam President. It's how
8 often do you get up. But if you're held to the
9 floor for years and years, you can't rise.
10 This piece of legislation is asking
11 for individuals to have a meaningful opportunity
12 to be able to show that they want to change. We
13 heard it. People want to change. They want to
14 work.
15 You know, and the last thing I'll
16 say on this point about what vehicles are already
17 available, that we have these sealing statutes
18 that we can use -- as Senator Myrie said, that
19 0.05 percent of people use. Everybody that says
20 that, how many reentry fairs have you held? How
21 many days of expungement and reentry type of
22 events have you held with these sealing statutes
23 that exist, how many have you held?
24 I would say slim to none. I would
25 say little to none, excuse me. That's how many
6881
1 you've held. This statute will create real
2 meaningful change. The next person, the next
3 person that may sit in this seat may have done
4 something wrong in their life, but they won't pay
5 for it forever.
6 Let us not judge people on the worst
7 things they've ever done, but on our society's
8 ability to forgive. I vote aye, Madam President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
10 Bailey to be recorded in the affirmative.
11 Senator Rhoads to explain his vote.
12 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
13 Madam President.
14 I certainly understand the sentiment
15 behind this bill. Nobody wants to be judged by
16 their worst moment. I believe that. I
17 understand that.
18 But I think what we're seeing in the
19 chamber here is what we see kind of often here,
20 is that I have the right as an individual to
21 judge that. I have the right for myself to
22 determine when I get to see or how I get to see
23 an individual that I'm going to be doing business
24 with, that I'm going to be inviting into my home,
25 that I'm going to be working with on a regular
6882
1 basis. And what we're doing is putting blinders
2 on the eyes of everyone.
3 We talk about transparency in this
4 chamber all the time, and we vote for
5 transparency in this chamber all the time. But
6 what we're doing essentially here is we're
7 telling the public that our judgment is better
8 than theirs. We're not saying that there's no
9 opportunity for redemption. What we're saying is
10 that it's in the eyes of the individual who's
11 making the decision whether or not to engage on a
12 regular basis with that person, whether to invite
13 them into their home, whether to invite them into
14 their business. It's their opportunity to make
15 that decision.
16 If some person has demonstrated that
17 they've made a mistake early in life and comes
18 for a job, it's that employer's decision whether
19 or not they want to believe that that person has
20 redeemed themselves. It's not government's. If
21 I want to invite somebody into my home to watch
22 my house, to watch my niece and nephew, that
23 should be my decision, not government's decision,
24 whether I get to know that individual's
25 background.
6883
1 So we're not talking about not being
2 in favor of redemption. We're not talking about
3 not providing opportunities. We're talking about
4 providing transparency so that people will make
5 decisions with open eyes, recognizing that you're
6 never going to be able to know someone's heart,
7 but you should have the opportunity to at least
8 know their background and make that evaluation
9 for yourself without having to take the word of
10 government for it.
11 And unfortunately, there are some --
12 I'm a big baseball fan. My favorite movie is
13 The Natural. Robert Redford, one of the famous
14 lines in the movie when he -- and I know I'm
15 running up against the two minutes. One of the
16 famous lines in his movie is that he says, when
17 he's in a hospital bed, "There are some mistakes
18 that you never stop paying for."
19 And unfortunately that's sometimes
20 true. But not in the eyes of everyone. But it
21 should be us that makes that decision. It
22 shouldn't be government that makes that decision
23 for us.
24 So I'll be voting in the negative on
25 this bill.
6884
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
2 Rhoads to be recorded in the negative.
3 Senator Hinchey to explain her vote.
4 SENATOR HINCHEY: Thank you,
5 Madam President.
6 I wasn't planning to speak on this
7 bill, but I think it's important to put on the
8 record that as someone who represents a rural
9 upstate community, people in my district are
10 asking for this bill. They are asking for
11 Clean Slate. People are not wanting immunity
12 from liability, they're wanting a chance at a
13 better life. They're wanting a chance to be able
14 to help the next generation in their family, to
15 be able to find stable housing, to be able to
16 find a job, to be able to help their parents or
17 their kids.
18 People want to be able to live
19 without stigma. They want to be able to succeed
20 and have equal opportunities and to be the
21 arbiters of their own fate. That is what we are
22 allowing here today in this chamber and with this
23 bill.
24 So much of what we heard is not
25 actually relevant to the bill that we are talking
6885
1 about. It is filled with fearmongering and
2 rhetoric to try to undermine the points and the
3 justice that we are providing with this bill for
4 people who have been consistently kept down, not
5 just their entire lives but often generations in
6 their family. This is going to give people a
7 path back to help them and their future family.
8 For that, I'm incredibly proud to
9 vote aye on this bill and to be able to deliver
10 this for the constituents in the 41st District.
11 Thank you, Madam President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
13 Hinchey to be recorded in the affirmative.
14 Senator Cleare to explain her vote.
15 SENATOR CLEARE: Thank you,
16 Madam President.
17 I want to commend my colleague
18 Zellnor Myrie for this very important
19 legislation.
20 What it's about is you have paid for
21 your crime. You deserve to put that behind you
22 and not be judged for the rest of your life for
23 something that you've already paid for. To be
24 incarcerated over and over again for the rest of
25 your life when that door slams in your face, when
6886
1 you don't get that job, when you are judged over
2 and over again for the same thing that you
3 already paid society back for -- that's not
4 justice. That's not justice.
5 We know the individuals. We know
6 their lives. Some of them didn't even have a
7 fair chance to begin with. They made a mistake.
8 They went to jail. They paid for their crime.
9 And now they're out. They deserve to have a
10 chance to move on with their lives and to get on
11 with it and get all of that past them.
12 This bill is crucial and critical.
13 I thank you for your persistence. I thank you
14 for your hard work. This is going to change
15 thousands of lives in my district. Thousands of
16 lives. People who have been beat down over and
17 over again. They deserve a chance. They deserve
18 a second chance.
19 And our decisions should be based on
20 who people are, not on what they did and paid for
21 a long time ago. It's what you are today. So
22 many people you look at, you don't know who they
23 are, you don't know what they've done. They may
24 not have gotten caught. And because these people
25 have gotten caught and paid for what they did,
6887
1 that is why we judge them over and over again.
2 And that's not fair.
3 And that ends now, and I thank you.
4 And I proudly vote aye, Madam President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
6 Cleare to be recorded in the affirmative.
7 Senator Brouk to explain your vote.
8 SENATOR BROUK: Thank you,
9 Madam President.
10 I want to share a story that I think
11 highlights why we're voting on this today.
12 And I also want to thank and
13 congratulate Senator Myrie for his work on this
14 even before I was blessed to be in this
15 Legislature.
16 I want to tell a story of Melinda,
17 who's a grandmother living in Syracuse. In
18 October of 1999, she was sentenced to three years
19 probation. She completed her sentence, went on
20 to become a mother, a grandmother, went to
21 school, obtained a bachelor's degree, her
22 master's, even -- which, by the way, is more
23 education than I have. I don't even have a
24 master's. Yet 25 years later, despite all that
25 she had done to give back to her community, she's
6888
1 still suffering the consequences of her actions
2 over 25 years ago.
3 Let's put this in perspective. In
4 1999, I was 13 years old, getting ready for the
5 year 2000 in my eighth-grade class. Think of all
6 I've done since then. I had no idea I'd become a
7 State Senator. And this is a woman who continues
8 to suffer from the actions of nearly some of
9 our lifetimes ago.
10 The question -- which is
11 rhetorical -- that I'll ask is: How long do we
12 need to punish people? How long do we punish
13 people until we let them live full lives to
14 support their families, to support their
15 grandchildren, to support their communities?
16 That's why Clean Slate is so important.
17 And to finalize this, I want to just
18 say I'm so proud of so many things that we've
19 done, this week especially, in this Legislature.
20 It can be uncomfortable for some, but it's going
21 to help so many New Yorkers. And we're not going
22 to stop. And I'm very proud of that work.
23 I vote aye. Thank you.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
25 Brouk to be recorded in the affirmative.
6889
1 Senator Myrie to close.
2 SENATOR MYRIE: Thank you,
3 Madam President.
4 First let me just address some
5 things that I heard from my colleagues who spoke
6 on the bill. You know, the notion that this
7 conference or this Legislature doesn't care about
8 victims is directly contrary to the record.
9 Just a few weeks ago we passed the
10 Fair Access to Victims' Services Act, where only
11 four of my colleagues on the other side joined in
12 on that effort. But this is something that we --
13 that would give more access to resources for
14 victims, that would allow for them to get the
15 compensation that they deserve, but that my
16 colleagues who have spoken eloquently about
17 victims decided was not good enough for them.
18 One colleague mentioned the
19 recidivism rate. And we have empirical evidence
20 that shows us that individuals who benefit from
21 sealing of their records do have a lower
22 recidivism rate, and it is in fact lower than the
23 offense rate for the general public.
24 I've heard a lot about
25 accountability and people taking responsibility.
6890
1 And again, I would underscore that this bill does
2 nothing to affect the current adjudication
3 process. If you are convicted, you will serve
4 your time, and you still have to remain
5 crime-free to benefit from this.
6 And on the notion of immunity for
7 jobs, I would point out that in the negligence
8 context -- and many of the lawyers in this room
9 are familiar with that -- there is a knowing
10 requirement for negligence. And by definition,
11 if the record is sealed, the employer does not
12 know and thus should not be held liable in a
13 negligence claim.
14 And I'll lastly say that on -- just
15 to address some of the comments that were made,
16 that individuals who are eligible for sealing
17 under our current statutes, only 0.05 percent of
18 those who are eligible have taken advantage of
19 it. That is both a demonstration that they don't
20 know about their eligibility but also about how
21 onerous the process is.
22 I want to thank our leader, Senator
23 Andrea Stewart-Cousins, for bringing this bill to
24 the floor again, and thank her for her steadfast
25 dedication to helping the millions of New Yorkers
6891
1 with conviction records.
2 I want to thank my colleague in the
3 other house, Assemblymember Catalina Cruz, who
4 helped shepherd the effort in the Assembly, who
5 passed Clean Slate today. And I'd also thank
6 Speaker Heastie for allowing the bill to come to
7 the floor.
8 I had served a year in this office
9 when I met a young brother named Zaki, who is
10 another great person in the lineage of people
11 with names that start with Z.
12 (Laughter.)
13 SENATOR MYRIE: And I had a coffee
14 with Zaki, and Zaki told me about his story: Had
15 a conviction, really wanted to give back to his
16 community -- because he was the most credible
17 person. And he got a job and was doing what he
18 loved, but once they found out that he had a
19 conviction, he was let go. And all of the people
20 that he was helping and that he could influence
21 now did not have that individual simply because
22 he had a conviction record.
23 And his story of course is not
24 unique. One in seven New Yorkers have a
25 conviction record. Which means that if you look
6892
1 around this room, even in the seats, that there
2 are people with conviction records that are in
3 this Legislature. But you don't know that,
4 because people don't advertise that. The same
5 way that you don't advertise the worst thing that
6 you've ever done to everybody.
7 But imagine for just a second, if at
8 every interview, every job application, every
9 time you wanted to get a house, find someplace to
10 live, the person on the other side said "I just
11 need you to tell me about that worst moment in
12 your life." Every single time.
13 What are we doing? We have a higher
14 unemployment rate in this state than the rest of
15 the country. And we have millions of people
16 ready to go to work, but we shut the door on them
17 every opportunity we get. We marginalize them.
18 Okay, say I get out, I want to do
19 better. You're released from supervision. Say,
20 okay, I'm going to go apply for a job. You apply
21 for 10 jobs, all 10 say no. You say, all right,
22 well, maybe I'll go to school, get my education,
23 maybe they will take me then. You go apply for
24 financial aid, and they say "Oh, you have a
25 conviction? Not eligible."
6893
1 Okay, so you can't go to school, you
2 can't get a job. Well, I've got to put a roof
3 over my head. I don't know how to deal with
4 this, I've been locked up for 20 years. I need
5 to find a place to live. And you go and you
6 apply for a place for live, and they say: Nope,
7 your conviction means you will not get housing.
8 Ask yourself, what would you do if
9 you were that individual? No house, no job, no
10 education. There are no options.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
12 Myrie, your time is up.
13 SENATOR MYRIE: So I plead not just
14 with my colleagues, but for every New Yorker who
15 is listening: Clean Slate is a jobs bill, it's
16 an education bill, it is a housing bill, it is
17 the right thing to do.
18 And I am so proud to vote in
19 affirmative. Thank you.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
21 Myrie to be recorded in the affirmative.
22 Announce the results.
23 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
24 Calendar 1827, those Senators voting in the
25 negative are Senators Addabbo, Ashby, Borrello,
6894
1 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming,
2 Lanza, Mannion, Martinez, Martins, Mattera,
3 Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads,
4 Rolison, Scarcella-Spanton, Stec, Tedisco,
5 Walczyk, Weber and Weik.
6 Ayes, 37. Nays, 25.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
8 is passed.
9 (Cheers; sustained applause.)
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
11 Gianaris.
12 SENATOR GIANARIS: Can we now move
13 on to Calendar 1812, by Senator Cleare.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
15 Secretary will read.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1812, Senate Print 6169A, by Senator Cleare, an
18 act to amend the Election Law.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
20 Martins, why do you rise?
21 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
22 on the bill.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
24 Martins on the bill.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
6895
1 I happen to have in my district one of the I
2 think crown jewels of our state. It's the
3 Henry Viscardi School. Many of us have had the
4 distinct privilege of going to the Henry Viscardi
5 School.
6 The Henry Viscardi School, for those
7 who don't know, is a school that teaches
8 high school to children who are severely
9 physically disabled. Severely physically
10 disabled. Most of them in wheelchairs, multiple
11 disabilities. And yet somehow the school manages
12 to teach them in a high school setting, with many
13 of them actually going on to college.
14 I remember the first day,
15 Madam President, that I visited the school and I
16 met with the president of the student body, a
17 young man from Queens who told me that if he
18 weren't at that school -- he was in a
19 wheelchair -- that he would be back in his school
20 and he would not be able to participate in any of
21 the activities of the school. They would have
22 him in a wheelchair and he'd be off in a corner
23 somewhere, and he would not have an opportunity
24 to participate in any of the activities.
25 At the Henry Viscardi School, he
6896
1 actually participated in sports, basketball, had
2 access to the curricula, and then obviously
3 aspirations for higher education and beyond.
4 So the president of the Henry
5 Viscardi School and the school reached out,
6 concerned about this bill, and I wanted to share
7 with my colleagues their concern. Because -- and
8 I do believe this to be perhaps -- or perhaps
9 definitely inadvertent, but I think it's
10 important that we get the perspective of the
11 community and the disability community when it
12 comes to voting and their access to the voting
13 booth and to the polling place. And that perhaps
14 as well-intentioned as we may be in promoting
15 legislation and advancing bills, that it's not
16 always received the same way.
17 So coincidentally, Dr. Chris Rosa,
18 who is the president and the CEO of the Viscardi
19 Center, on April 24th happened to have had an
20 op-ed printed in Newsday. I say coincidentally
21 because that's the actual date of the A print on
22 this bill, when it was amended and then
23 resubmitted, and we're here today.
24 So they took the opportunity to send
25 me a copy of the op-ed that Dr. Rosa had
6897
1 prepared. And it starts with a preamble for
2 Dr. Rosa himself: Dr. Chris Rosa is president
3 and CEO of the Viscardi Center, a New York-based
4 network of nonprofits that educate, employ and
5 empower children and adults with disabilities.
6 He also serves as president of the
7 internationally renowned Henry Viscardi School.
8 Dr. Rosa is a staunch advocate for
9 equity and economic justice for people with
10 disabilities, being a wheelchair user since he
11 was 12 years old. Dr. Rosa has limb-girdle
12 muscular dystrophy.
13 He's a published disabilities
14 studies scholar. He serves in national
15 leadership on organizations that promote access
16 and wellness for Americans with disabilities. He
17 is well known for his expertise on disability as
18 a key dimension of diversity, equity and
19 inclusion -- what we commonly refer as,
20 Madam President, DEI. Disability and
21 intersectionality in American disability culture.
22 And I think it's important that we
23 just take a moment to understand the sentiment
24 that Dr. Rosa was trying to share that at the
25 time, Madam President, on April 24th in an op-ed
6898
1 in Newsday, but applicable to the discussion and
2 the bill we have before us today.
3 "At The Viscardi Center's Albertson,
4 Long Island campus, we aspire to be 'the most
5 inclusive six acres on the planet!'
6 "Each day, Viscardi empowers kids
7 and adults with disabilities to dismantle
8 conventional assumptions about who gets to fully
9 participate in our communities, through truly
10 inclusive education, career readiness,
11 independent living skill development, and civic
12 engagement. Together, we achieve this by
13 creating, sustaining, and advancing programs,
14 facilities, and opportunities built upon the
15 principle of universal design -- singular,
16 inclusive models which offer the most access to
17 the most people.
18 "That’s why I find it especially
19 disconcerting when people with disabilities" --
20 PWDs -- "go to a polling place and are ushered to
21 a separate section to vote. In New York, we can
22 use equipment that accommodates voters with
23 disabilities, which is terrific -- except PWDs
24 are usually the only people using it! The
25 unintended consequence is that the voting
6899
1 experience for PWDs is 'separate but equal,'
2 rather than truly inclusive.
3 "This can, and should, change.
4 "While voting equipment has evolved
5 to allow voters with disabilities to use the same
6 voting equipment as everyone else, unfortunately,
7 this equipment is not made available to everyone.
8 "Many cities and states across
9 America use this inclusive voting technology.
10 New York has the opportunity to join other
11 leading jurisdictions and stop perpetuating
12 'separate but equal' voting experiences for
13 people with disabilities. We need our State
14 Board of Elections to certify modern, universally
15 designed voting technology that allows everyone
16 to vote on the same kind of equipment.
17 "This technology has been proved
18 safe and secure, relies on a paper ballot,
19 creates efficiency in voting times resulting in
20 shorter lines, and is user-friendly and
21 meaningfully accessible to all voters. I've had
22 the opportunity to try this technology, as have
23 many people with disabilities across New York.
24 But right now we can't use it in an actual
25 election because, even though it's federally
6900
1 certified, the New York Board of Elections hasn't
2 yet approved it. It is my earnest hope that the
3 Board of Elections will do the right thing and
4 certify this equipment after it passes all of
5 New York's laws and requirements.
6 "Madam President, there is something
7 fundamental to our democracy at stake in
8 New York, and not just for the disability
9 community. Voting represents the very heart of
10 our notion of citizenship, and how each member of
11 our citizenry is able to vote reflects the extent
12 to which they are regarded as full and equal
13 citizens. Voting technology that creates truly
14 inclusive voting experiences for all voters is
15 simply the right thing to do; it creates a more
16 democratic and equitable society, fosters more
17 confidence in our elections, and engenders more
18 faith in each other.
19 "There is no risk here. The
20 technology is tested, proved and vetted. It's
21 accurate, reliable and efficient. Let's move on
22 from 'separate but equal' and let the State Board
23 of Elections know you're on the side of equal,
24 inclusive voting opportunities for all eligible
25 voters."
6901
1 Madam President, that was the op-ed
2 that Dr. Chris Rosa wrote and was published in
3 Newsday just less than two months ago. And
4 again, at the time it was written, unbeknownst to
5 me, this bill was pending. They reached out and
6 asked if I would share this op-ed on the floor
7 today, and I have.
8 I'm not going to elaborate on it;
9 it's not for me to do that. Dr. Rosa I think has
10 done that quite eloquently in his capacity not
11 only as president of the Henry Viscardi School,
12 but as a leader in the disability community, a
13 recognized leader in the disability community.
14 I think it's incumbent upon us to
15 think on his words, think on the opportunities we
16 have to actually create a universal polling
17 experience for everyone -- not only the
18 able-bodied, but the disabled -- and be as
19 inclusive as we can, in the spirit of what we do
20 and can do as New Yorkers.
21 Madam President -- and again, I'll
22 say it, I don't believe in any way, shape or form
23 that this bill was introduced for the purposes of
24 creating a different experience for different
25 people. Certainly I don't believe it was
6902
1 introduced for the purpose of making it more
2 difficult for people with disabilities. I don't.
3 But I share this simply with the
4 thought that perhaps in the spirit of what
5 Dr. Rosa wrote in his op-ed on April 24th, we can
6 get beyond simply allowing for different forms of
7 voting and move towards a more universal way of
8 voting.
9 And for that, I'll be voting no on
10 this bill, understanding that I look forward to
11 working with my colleagues to hopefully promote a
12 way to vote in a way that is more inclusive of
13 everyone, including people with disabilities.
14 Madam President, I thank you.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Are there
16 any other Senators wishing to be heard?
17 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
18 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
19 Read the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Call the
23 roll.
24 (The Secretary called the roll.)
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
6903
1 Cleare to explain her vote.
2 SENATOR CLEARE: Thank you,
3 Madam President.
4 When it comes to voting, the most
5 important variable is knowing that your
6 individual vote was not only counted but was
7 counted accurately, in accordance with your
8 preferences.
9 That is why I introduced the Voting
10 Integrity and Verification Act of New York,
11 which, instead of trying to meticulously
12 prescribe what technology may come, gives voters
13 a time-tested right. And that right is to ensure
14 that the easiest and simplest way to verify their
15 vote was counted and counted accurately is by
16 ensuring that every voter will have the option to
17 mark a paper ballot -- by hand, or with a ballot
18 marking device that does not also count votes.
19 In sum, individual voter-verifiable
20 paper ballots that allow voters to cast their
21 votes privately and independently are a safe way
22 and secure way to secure our democracy.
23 Thank you, and I proudly vote aye.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
25 Cleare to be recorded in the affirmative.
6904
1 Announce the results.
2 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
3 Calendar 1812, those Senators voting in the
4 negative are Senators Borrello, Brouk,
5 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Cooney, Gallivan, Hinchey,
6 Lanza, Martins, Mattera, Oberacker, Ortt, Rhoads,
7 Stec, Tedisco, Weber and Weik.
8 Ayes, 46. Nays, 16.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
10 is passed.
11 Senator Gianaris.
12 SENATOR GIANARIS: Next up,
13 Madam President, Calendar 1829, by
14 Senator Thomas. Let's take that up, please.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
16 Secretary will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1829, Senate Print 7553, by Senator Thomas, an
19 act to amend the General Business Law.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
21 Rhoads, why do you rise?
22 SENATOR RHOADS: I was hoping the
23 sponsor would yield to a couple of questions.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
25 Thomas, do you yield?
6905
1 SENATOR THOMAS: Through you,
2 Madam President, yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
4 Senator yields.
5 SENATOR RHOADS: Senator Thomas,
6 thank you for yielding to a couple of questions.
7 I want to thank you for sponsoring
8 the bill. I certainly understand its intent. I
9 did just have a couple of questions, just seeking
10 some clarifications with regard to some of the
11 language.
12 Obviously I know that the intent of
13 the bill is to provide some level of transparency
14 with respect to auto brokers and their dealings
15 with their respective clients. Just for a
16 question of clarification, what would the impact
17 be with respect to an out-of-state auto broker
18 who delivers a vehicle within New York State.
19 Would there be any impact on that particular
20 transaction?
21 SENATOR THOMAS: Through you,
22 Madam President, that's a great question to ask.
23 I believe it depends on where the
24 vehicle is coming from. For example, if it's an
25 out-of-state auto broker getting a car from
6906
1 New Jersey and delivering it to a customer in
2 New York, they do not necessarily need to follow
3 this bill that I'm putting forward.
4 But on the other hand, if it's a
5 vehicle in New York that the out-of-state broker
6 is finding for the customer in New York, at that
7 point they need to register and go through the
8 set of guidelines that this bill requires.
9 SENATOR RHOADS: And -- thank you,
10 Senator Thomas.
11 And would the sponsor be kind enough
12 to yield to another question.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
14 continue to yield?
15 SENATOR THOMAS: Yes,
16 Madam President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR RHOADS: And with respect
20 to a vehicle from New York that was being
21 delivered by an out-of-state broker, my
22 understanding is that they would be able to
23 partner with an in-state company in order to do
24 that. Is that correct?
25 SENATOR THOMAS: Through you,
6907
1 Madam President, yes, that is correct.
2 SENATOR RHOADS: Okay. And would
3 the sponsor be kind enough to yield to another
4 question.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Will the
6 sponsor yield?
7 SENATOR THOMAS: Yes,
8 Madam President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR RHOADS: Now, I do note
12 that in the bill it does have some language that
13 requires that the broker, when they enter into a
14 contractual agreement with the purchaser of that
15 vehicle, certify that the only person paying them
16 in that transaction is the provider of the
17 vehicle. Whether it's a manufacturer, whether
18 it's another dealer, whoever provides it, they
19 give assurance to the seller -- to the purchaser
20 that that's the only person from whom they're
21 accepting any kind of fee.
22 When my understanding is that in
23 reality, similar to a real estate transaction,
24 where it's a transactional brokerage and a
25 real estate agent can actually represent the
6908
1 buyer and the seller and take a fee from both,
2 that actually does take place -- not with every
3 company, but does take place with respect to some
4 companies.
5 Under the language that currently
6 exists in your bill, would that be prohibited?
7 SENATOR THOMAS: Through you,
8 Madam President, you are correct.
9 You know, transactions do vary
10 depending on the type of vehicle and the
11 accessories and the situations that come up.
12 The intention here was not to limit
13 their compensation. Obviously, no bill is
14 perfect, and I am more than willing to correct
15 that situation in a chapter amendment after the
16 bill is passed.
17 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
18 Madam President.
19 Thank you, Mr. Sponsor. I'd be
20 happy to -- Senator Thomas, I'd be happy to work
21 with you when we come back in January.
22 SENATOR THOMAS: Thank you.
23 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
24 Madam President.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Thank you,
6909
1 Senator Rhoads.
2 Are there any other Senators wishing
3 to be heard?
4 Senator Weik, why do you rise?
5 SENATOR WEIK: I'm wondering if the
6 sponsor would yield for a few questions.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
8 Thomas, do you yield?
9 SENATOR THOMAS: Yes.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR WEIK: Through you,
13 Madam President. It sounds like the sponsor --
14 it sounds kind of like you're interested in
15 making an amendment to your bill, which I think
16 would be a really good idea, since brokers really
17 do act as if the -- in the same manner that
18 realtors act, and yet we have so many stringent
19 laws and applications for realtors to guide them
20 as they go through their business.
21 And brokers really have started to
22 grow, and I hear that it -- you know, from
23 constituents and from the auto dealers that it is
24 adding this unnecessary layer that adds cost and
25 grievance to the purchaser as they buy their car.
6910
1 So are you saying that you are
2 willing to amend this bill to make sure that
3 there are more regulations for these brokers that
4 kind of resemble that of a realtor?
5 SENATOR THOMAS: Through you,
6 Madam President, this bill was -- went through a
7 number of negotiations and compromise to get to
8 the place where it is today.
9 Again, you know, no bill is perfect.
10 And my intention here is not to shut down an
11 industry. It is to make sure that we balance
12 consumer protection and to make sure industry
13 survives. Right?
14 So we've taken input from both
15 sides, and wherever there is an issue that can be
16 resolved where balance and industry functionality
17 will work, I'm more than willing to make those
18 changes.
19 SENATOR WEIK: Well, that's
20 encouraging.
21 Through you, Madam President, would
22 the sponsor continue to yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
24 continue to yield?
25 SENATOR THOMAS: Yes,
6911
1 Madam President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR WEIK: So I have heard from
5 some constituents, and they were complaining that
6 extra fees were added. Are you offering any
7 remedy to those individuals through this bill?
8 SENATOR THOMAS: Through you,
9 Madam President. If I understand the question
10 correctly, what the bill does is it tells the
11 brokers to have a disclaimer or a contract out
12 right when the call goes in so that they know,
13 you know, what the fees are, et cetera. And at
14 the end there's going to be a disclosure as to
15 what the fees are and who's paying for it.
16 So there's a lot more disclosure
17 here for the consumer.
18 SENATOR WEIK: I look forward to
19 your amendment.
20 Madam President, just on the bill.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
22 Weik on the bill.
23 SENATOR WEIK: This bill does not
24 address all the needs that buyers are looking for
25 when they hire a broker. And the brokers are
6912
1 adding extra fees and an extra layer of
2 bureaucracy as individuals try to negotiate just
3 to purchase a car.
4 And in these times when cars are
5 already more expensive than their sticker price,
6 I think this is not a good time to be encouraging
7 brokers. And I really think that they should
8 have the same regulations on them since they are
9 acting the same as a realtor in the automotive
10 world.
11 And for that reason, I vote in the
12 negative.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Are there
14 any other Senators wishing to be heard?
15 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
16 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
17 Read the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 13. This
19 act shall take effect on the 180th day after it
20 shall have become a law.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Announce
25 the results.
6913
1 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
2 Calendar 1829, those Senators voting in the
3 negative are Senators Borrello,
4 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Chu, Cooney, Kavanagh,
5 Skoufis, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.
6 Ayes, 53. Nays, 9.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
8 is passed.
9 Senator Gianaris.
10 SENATOR GIANARIS: Next up,
11 Madam President, Calendar Number 747, by
12 Senator Kavanagh.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
14 Secretary will read.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 747, Senate Print 2980C, by Senator Kavanagh, an
17 act to amend the Administrative Code of the
18 City of New York.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
20 Martins, why do you rise?
21 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
22 on the bill.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
24 Martins on the bill.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
6914
1 the Housing Stability and Tenant Protection Act,
2 I think everyone knows, was passed in this house
3 and signed into law in 2019.
4 Afterwards, there was a case that
5 made it to the Court of Appeals. We referred to
6 it earlier in our discussion on a previous bill,
7 Senator Kavanagh and I, but it's Regina
8 Metropolitan Company against New York State
9 Division of Housing and Community Renewal. And
10 in that Court of Appeals decision, they were
11 asked to consider the applicability of the HSTPA
12 applied retroactively.
13 And there were certain due process
14 considerations with regard to the bill, and the
15 court ultimately found that on due process
16 grounds, based in the New York State -- and made
17 reference to the federal Constitution, that you
18 could not apply it retroactively. And it
19 referred to a few other cases -- specifically,
20 Thornton v. Baron and Grimm v. DHCR as being
21 inapplicable for purposes of their evaluation in
22 that case.
23 I'm going to read a provision or a
24 section from Regina Metro from the Court of
25 Appeals, where they write: "We are of course
6915
1 mindful of the responsibility to defer to the
2 Legislature in matters of policymaking. But it
3 is the role of the judicial branch to interpret
4 and safeguard constitutional rights and review
5 challenged acts of our coequal branches of
6 government -- not in order to make policy, but in
7 order to ensure the protections of constitutional
8 rights."
9 It goes on to say that "As to the
10 HSTPA, today we fulfill this quintessential
11 judicial function in holding that a limited suite
12 of enforcement provisions may not be applied
13 retroactively and opine in no way on the vast
14 majority of that legislation or its prospective
15 application."
16 It's interesting, because again we
17 passed the HSTPA in 2019, this case was decided
18 in 2020, and here we are with a bill that
19 specifically references not only the Regina Metro
20 case but also those cases that it cited therein.
21 So in the bill today, under Part B,
22 it says that the -- it is public policy that the
23 Legislature define clearly the scope of the fraud
24 exception. See, Madam President, one of the
25 allowances for a retroactive application of
6916
1 penalties in the event of a violation of the
2 HSTPA, according to the Court of Appeals in
3 Regina Metro, is that you could go back if you
4 could show that there was fraud.
5 In fact, in Matter of Grimm against
6 New York State Division of Housing and
7 Community Renewal, they held that an increase in
8 rent alone is not sufficient to establish
9 colorable claim of fraud, and the mere allegation
10 of fraud alone, without more, will not be
11 sufficient to require New York Department of
12 Housing and Community Renewal to inquire further.
13 What is required is evidence of a
14 landlord's fraudulent deregulation scheme to
15 remove an apartment from the protections of rent
16 stabilization. The rental history may be
17 examined for the limited purpose of determining
18 whether a fraudulent scheme to destabilize the
19 apartment tainted the reliability of the rent on
20 the base date.
21 So all of this is about the ability
22 for tenants to be able to sue their landlords for
23 retroactive rent if they feel that they were
24 applied improperly. The court has held that
25 there needs to be a showing of fraud, some level
6917
1 of systemic fraud -- not just a claim of fraud,
2 but something more.
3 And that brings us to the bill we
4 have before us today. Because the bill we have
5 before us today actually takes, I believe, the
6 unusual step of providing an interpretation of
7 the court's own ruling, and in many respects
8 substituting this body for that of the Judiciary
9 in interpreting cases and interpreting how our
10 laws should be applied. Which is a
11 quintessential function, as I mentioned earlier,
12 of the Judiciary.
13 So it says here that the Legislature
14 defines clearly a scope of fraud exception to the
15 pre-HSTPA four-year rule for calculating rents,
16 which remains unsettled and the subject of
17 litigation where courts have diverged from the
18 controlling authority of Thornton v. Baron and
19 Grimm v. DHCR.
20 Remember, Mis -- excuse me,
21 Madam President, I mentioned the Grimm standard
22 was that you can't just claim fraud, you actually
23 have to show some sort of systemic fraud in order
24 for a claim to be able to go back beyond the
25 lookback period.
6918
1 It goes on to say that the
2 controlling authority of Thornton v. Baron and
3 Grimm v. DHCR to impose a common law fraud
4 standard that is not found in these cases and is
5 inconsistent -- inconsistent with the intent of
6 the Legislature to discourage and penalize fraud
7 against the rental regulatory system itself, as
8 well as against individual tenants, and it is
9 therefore public policy that the Legislature
10 codify, without expanding or reducing the
11 liability of landlords under pre-HSTPA law, the
12 standard for applying that exception.
13 So now the Legislature is not only
14 taking the judicial interpretation but adding its
15 own to it, in an extraordinary way.
16 Now, in order to understand the
17 bill, we actually have to take a step back and go
18 back to the Court of Appeals decision, because
19 this bill is all about going back to the Court of
20 Appeals designation in Regina Metro and trying to
21 circumvent it by adding language that --
22 hopefully, I guess, for the sponsor and those
23 would support this bill -- the court will
24 consider on some later date if they're asked to
25 reconsider this issue.
6919
1 As an aside, Madam President, you
2 know, we talk about affordable housing, we talk
3 about accessibility to affordability, we talk
4 about the need to build more affordable housing,
5 we talk about the people in this state who are
6 looking for affordable housing, and the construct
7 of the HSTPA is supposed to be precisely for
8 that, allowing people access to it.
9 This doesn't do that. This actually
10 takes a step to allow people to bring litigation
11 and to recover against landlords in a way that
12 many can say actually creates a disincentive for
13 landlords to reinvest in their buildings,
14 reinvest in creating housing, reinvest in
15 modernizing housing, but instead opens up an
16 avenue for litigation where there isn't one right
17 now because the court foreclosed it and the
18 Legislature, extraordinarily, is going ahead with
19 creating, trying to create a vehicle for that
20 itself. Which is extraordinary.
21 So in Regina Metro, because this
22 bill is all about Regina Metro, the Court of
23 Appeals precedent was that you could go beyond a
24 four-year lookback only in cases of fraud, as I
25 mentioned. For example, the plaintiffs in Raden,
6920
1 one of the cases that was being heard in the
2 Regina Metro Court of Appeals decision, who took
3 occupancy of their apartments in 1995 at a market
4 rent, commenced this action in 2010 seeking
5 recovery of overcharges based on a reconstruction
6 of the rent that they should have been charged
7 had the apartment never been deregulated.
8 See, the argument, Madam President,
9 is they didn't believe that the property or the
10 building was actually properly deregulated, even
11 though it had been deregulated pursuant to
12 guidance that was offered by DHCR.
13 So the landlord comes in, goes to
14 DHCR, asks them to deregulate the apartment, DHCR
15 offers guidance to deregulate the apartment, the
16 apartment is deregulated. And now, years later,
17 after it's already being charged market rate, the
18 tenant says no, we've got to go back. We've got
19 to go back, and I want to recover all of the
20 overpayment of rent that I paid -- from a
21 landlord who did nothing more than follow the
22 rules that were provided them by the state
23 itself.
24 The court held that in stark
25 contrast to Thornton, Grimm and another case,
6921
1 Conason, in which tenants come forward with
2 evidence of fraud, in these Roberts cases the
3 owners removed apartments from stabilization
4 consistent with agency guidance. Deregulation of
5 the apartments during receipt of J-51 benefits
6 was not based on a fraudulent misstatement of
7 fact but on a misinterpretation of the law --
8 significantly, one that DHCR itself adopted and
9 included in its regulations.
10 So this bill is targeted to allow
11 lawsuits and litigation against landlords who
12 followed the rules that they received from DHCR.
13 It goes on. So in Part B of this
14 bill -- Madam President, I didn't check to see
15 when we started this discussion, so I want to
16 make sure I don't hit my 30 minutes. Could you
17 please remind me of when those 30 minutes will be
18 up?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do not
20 worry. I will certainly remind you.
21 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you, I
22 appreciate that.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: You have
24 used about 12 minutes so far.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: Well, thank you,
6922
1 Madam President, I appreciate that. Because once
2 I'm done, I do have a couple of questions for the
3 sponsor, if he will yield.
4 But this bill, extraordinarily,
5 Madam President, goes on to do something I find
6 to be somewhat unprecedented. "The following
7 conduct shall be presumed to have been the
8 product of fraud." So it actually lists in here
9 those things that will be considered fraud. Not
10 for purposes of creating more affordable housing,
11 not for purposes of allowing greater access to
12 these units, but for purposes of advancing
13 litigation that is out there that people have
14 already in the system.
15 So the Legislature is going to
16 create the predicate for the fraud that the
17 Court of Appeals said they needed in the
18 Regina Metro case in order to establish a case.
19 Since it didn't exist, we're going to go ahead
20 and include it in a bill and ask people on the
21 floor today to vote for it so that litigants out
22 there can sue their landlords -- regardless of
23 whether or not the court believes that they
24 could, because the court decided in 2020 in the
25 Regina Metro case that they didn't have a case.
6923
1 So we're going to give them the predicate by
2 passing a bill on the floor today.
3 So it goes on to say that these are
4 presumed to be the products of fraud: (1) the
5 unlawful deregulation of any apartment, including
6 such deregulation as results from claiming an
7 unlawful increase such as would have brought the
8 rent over the deregulation threshold that existed
9 under prior law, unless the landlord can prove
10 good faith reliance on a directive or ruling by
11 an administrative agency or court.
12 So that's (1). So if the landlord
13 sought to deregulate a unit based on instructions
14 that they received from an agency -- in this
15 case, DHCR, they may be covered and it may not be
16 fraud.
17 But then there's a part (2). So
18 it's "or (2)." Beginning October 1, 2011,
19 failing to register, as rent stabilized, any
20 apartment in a building receiving J-51 or 421-a
21 benefits. Interesting. There is no caveat with
22 this one. There is no reliance on agency
23 instruction. It just says if you failed to
24 register as rent-stabilized any apartment in a
25 building receiving J-51 or 421-a benefits after
6924
1 October 1, 2011.
2 Now, October 1, 2011, is
3 interesting, because there was another case by
4 the Court of Appeals where they determined -- I
5 believe it's the Roberts case -- where they
6 determined that -- and I got a nod from
7 Senator Kavanagh, thank you -- where they
8 determined that you had to go back and
9 reregister, even if you had been deregulated, you
10 have to go back and reregister. So a lot of
11 these building owners went back and reregistered
12 after October 1st of 2011.
13 But, Madam President, I guess the
14 question is, what happens if somebody -- and
15 there was no instruction from DHCR at that time.
16 There was a court ruling, and then there was
17 instruction that came later.
18 So I guess the question is, because
19 the Legislature is taking the extraordinary
20 measure of creating a vehicle for litigants to
21 bring actions, and there is this presumption of
22 fraud under (1) and (2) -- and (1) can be
23 corrected if you show you were following
24 instructions from an agency, but (2) can't.
25 If you were supposed to deregulate
6925
1 or reregister after October 1, 2011, and you
2 didn't did do it, say, until 2014, because you
3 didn't receive any instructions, but you went
4 ahead and did it, and now it's 2023 -- are we
5 creating liability as a matter of law by passing
6 this for those three years or four years where
7 there was an inadvertent application or
8 inadvertent lapse in asking for that application
9 because there was no instruction?
10 That's what this bill does. And
11 that's a concern. It should be a concern for all
12 of us. Because asking our building owners to
13 write blank checks based on nothing more than
14 following the instructions of the agency that we
15 here in the State of New York have put in the
16 position to actually provide that instruction.
17 So it puts us in a bit of an awkward
18 position where this Legislature is being asked to
19 pass a law that actually doesn't provide housing,
20 doesn't allow access to housing, allows for a
21 lawsuit predicated on fraud -- we're going to
22 create the predicate for it -- and doesn't allow
23 for an out. Extraordinary. I believe truly
24 extraordinary, and something that I think we
25 should all be concerned about.
6926
1 I don't see, Madam President, any
2 other interpretation of this particular provision
3 other than this. We have a case that was decided
4 by the Court of Appeals. The case did not expand
5 liability. And now we have a bill before us that
6 fills in the gaps and then allows for a
7 retroactive application and blanket liability for
8 people who, because of the definitions in this
9 bill, will be automatically liable without a
10 showing, as was required in the Grimm case, of an
11 actual intent to defraud.
12 So with that, I would ask if the
13 sponsor would yield for a few questions.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
15 Kavanagh, do you yield?
16 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
17 Madam President.
18 I do want to stipulate that when I
19 nodded my head before, it's because my colleague
20 Senator Skoufis asked me if I wanted to go out
21 and get an Italian ice --
22 (Laughter.)
23 SENATOR KAVANAGH: -- and I nodded
24 my head.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: Well,
6927
1 Madam President -- and Senator Kavanagh, I
2 apologize. I apologize.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
4 Senator yields.
5 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
6 Senator Kavanagh, the case in and
7 around 2010 that required rent-stabilized
8 apartments that were deregulated to reregister,
9 do you recall the name of that case?
10 SENATOR KAVANAGH: I think you're
11 referring to the Roberts case.
12 SENATOR MARTINS: I am. And thank
13 you.
14 Madam President, through you, if the
15 sponsor would continue to yield.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
17 sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
19 Madam President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR MARTINS: Senator, is
23 there -- I'm speaking specifically to Part B of
24 the bill before us. Is there a retroactive
25 impact to this Part B?
6928
1 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
2 Madam President, Part B is intended to clarify in
3 statute that the standard for determining
4 fraud -- and that we had an opportunity to
5 discuss this earlier, on a previous bill -- that
6 the standard for determining fraud is not the
7 common-law standard of fraud which requires, you
8 know, very -- like reliance on the part of the
9 person on a specific factual assertion and some
10 other things, but is instead the standard as it
11 was in the case that my colleague cited
12 favorably, Grimm, and also that Regina Metro also
13 relies on and cites favorably.
14 And in Grimm, basically the landlord
15 had -- the base rent for the rent that was being
16 challenged was a rent that the property owner had
17 basically improperly and falsely claimed was the
18 legal rent. And in Grimm the plaintiffs, the
19 tenants won, and -- because Grimm found that when
20 the landlord is intentionally choosing to
21 misstate the rent, and that's the base rent of
22 the case, that that's sufficient for the tenant
23 to win the case.
24 That is different from the
25 Roberts case, which is -- Roberts was a case
6929
1 where the DHCR, the administrative agency in
2 question, had found that the receipt of a tax
3 break like the J-51 tax break was not -- did not
4 require that a unit stay regulated. That was a
5 reversal of many years of standing law, which had
6 said if you're receiving J-51, you must be
7 regulated.
8 And so when DHCR came out with a new
9 ruling about that, many landlords relied on that,
10 including a very large complex I represented at
11 the time, Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper
12 Village, and began deregulating units pursuant to
13 DHCR's current rules.
14 Regina Metro goes out of its way to
15 say that's not fraud if you're relying on DHCR's
16 ruling. But if you're intentionally misstating
17 the relevant facts, that that could be the basis
18 for a fraud claim.
19 And again, what this Part B says,
20 after noting that the goal here is to basically
21 codify the standard as it was both before and
22 after Regina Metro, and before or after the
23 HSTPA, and as articulated in Grimm, it's
24 basically saying it's not the common-law standard
25 for fraud, which is different, and is footnoted
6930
1 in one of these cases, but is instead to say that
2 the -- you would have to have -- in order to be
3 deemed to have committed fraud, you'll have
4 committed a material breach of a duty arising
5 under statutory, administrative or common law, to
6 disclose truthfully to the tenant or the
7 government agency or a judicial or administrative
8 tribunal the rent or regulatory status or lease
9 information for the purpose of claiming that
10 something is regulated when it's in fact not.
11 So what we're saying is that the
12 standard as articulated in Grimm is the standard,
13 and it gives you a few examples of circumstances
14 where it might be presumed that you're then
15 failing to meet that standard. But that
16 doesn't -- the second part of that paragraph that
17 gives you those examples that are a product of
18 fraud, it would still have to be the sort of
19 fraud as it's defined in the first half of
20 paragraph B.
21 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
22 Senator.
23 Madam President, how are we doing on
24 time?
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: You have
6931
1 about seven minutes left, Senator.
2 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
3 Madam President.
4 So if -- through you,
5 Madam President -- the sponsor would continue to
6 yield.
7 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
8 Madam President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR KAVANAGH: The sponsor does
12 yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: I'm sorry,
14 I was looking at the clock.
15 The sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
17 Madam President.
18 So, Senator Kavanagh, this Part B at
19 least appears to me to be in direct relation to
20 the judges -- or the Court of Appeals decision in
21 Regina Metro. The whole purpose, as I read it,
22 is to take a Court of Appeals decision and to
23 address some concerns that the sponsor may have
24 with regard to the court's decision, how it
25 interpreted the need for fraud, and other things,
6932
1 through the language that you have here in this
2 bill.
3 Would that be fair?
4 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
5 Madam President. No, actually. Not really.
6 It's more given that Regina Metro,
7 you know -- as was true with the bill we
8 discussed earlier, Regina Metro altered and
9 declared invalid certain parts of Part F of the
10 HSTPA, and that has caused courts to have to now
11 interpret the HSTPA Part F as well as the
12 Regina Metro decision itself. And there's been
13 some confusion about whether the common-law
14 standard for fraud still applies, as it did
15 before the HSTPA and as it did before
16 Regina Metro.
17 And so what we're trying to say here
18 is the law as it was defined in Grimm -- which --
19 and Grimm was a case where the fact that someone
20 had intentionally misstated a legal rent was
21 sufficient to say that they could -- they could
22 satisfy the provision that permits one to go back
23 past a four-year lookback. Because the -- four
24 years ago the base rent for considering the --
25 whether the current rent was legal had been
6933
1 intentionally misstated by the landlord in that
2 case.
3 Again, Grimm did not apply a
4 common-law fraud standard where the person who is
5 supposedly the victim of fraud or claims to be
6 the victim of fraud has to demonstrate a reliance
7 on the untruthfulness and some other factors.
8 But there have been some courts that think Regina
9 may have changed that standard, and they think
10 that the HSTPA may have changed that standard.
11 And what we're saying is neither
12 Regina -- we don't believe either Regina or HSTPA
13 has changed its standard, and basically this --
14 and again, it specifically expresses an intent to
15 maintain the same standard that was in effect
16 before Regina Metro -- that's actually
17 articulated at the top of Part B, which I won't
18 read because my colleague might be running out of
19 time here.
20 But again, Regina Metro was a case
21 about not being allowed to retroactively change
22 standards under this part if it would either
23 reopen a case that had been closed or expose
24 people to liability in certain circumstances that
25 had been foreclosed by time or other factors.
6934
1 So the courts would presumably
2 police this if it in fact had that kind of
3 retroactive change, but it is not -- there's no
4 intent to retroactively change the law, it's just
5 to clarify it in statute, a fraud provision that
6 had grown up through cases like Grimm we now
7 would like to put in statute so people can read
8 it in black and white rather than doing
9 common-law research to determine what the
10 standard is.
11 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
12 Senator.
13 Madam President, on the bill.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
15 Martins on the bill.
16 SENATOR MARTINS: You know, the
17 Regina Metro case specifically said -- the
18 Court of Appeals specifically said they're not
19 taking a position on the prospective application
20 of the HSTPA. There's no question there. The
21 prospective application of the HSTPA allows the
22 law to be enforced in total, six-year lookback,
23 prospective.
24 The only thing Regina Metro did was
25 not allow a retroactive application of the law.
6935
1 Because the court found, the court found that it
2 wasn't just a misapplication of the law, it was a
3 violation of the Constitution of the State of
4 New York and of the federal Constitution's due
5 process provisions.
6 Because you can't change the law
7 halfway through, apply it retroactively and
8 expect people to know what they had to follow at
9 the time. Because I think basic fairness says
10 that we wouldn't accept that in our own lives, we
11 don't pass laws retroactively and hold people
12 accountable for conduct that was not regulated at
13 the time.
14 If this body decided today to tell
15 motorists in New York that they can go through
16 red lights and had to stop at green lights the
17 and then issued tickets retroactively for people
18 who went through green lights, everyone would
19 understand that that's inherently unfair, a
20 violation of due process.
21 Similarly, passing a law and asking
22 for a bill to be passed on this floor without
23 any, anything to do with affordable housing,
24 access to housing, allowing people to be able to
25 use and have access to affordable housing that we
6936
1 have available in New York State -- no, this
2 bill, what this bill does is only allows for
3 lawsuits against landlords by redefining fraud.
4 And I know the sponsor said it's a
5 clarification. A clarification or a retroactive
6 application, I guess it depends on the eye of the
7 beholder. I'm going to say it's a retroactive
8 application that allows lawsuits against property
9 owners without due process. And frankly, I find
10 it to be unfair and unconstitutional and
11 something that we should not consider and
12 certainly shouldn't make a habit of in this
13 house.
14 Madam President, I'll be voting nay.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
16 Palumbo, why do you rise?
17 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
18 Madam President. Will the sponsor yield for just
19 a couple of questions? And I have the rent bill
20 in my hand this time.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
22 Kavanagh, do you yield?
23 The Senator yields.
24 SENATOR KAVANAGH: For as many
25 questions as Senator Palumbo has.
6937
1 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
2 Senator.
3 So in Section 4, Part A, it mandates
4 that the property owners seeking to gain an
5 exemption from the rent control due to
6 improvements to the property, that they must
7 prove that it was a necessary renovation. Could
8 you just explain to me what that -- what a
9 necessary renovation is and what sort of proof
10 that would be required to be established as a
11 necessary renovation?
12 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
13 Madam President. Is my colleague -- my colleague
14 referred to Section 4, but I'm not sure that -- I
15 want to make sure that we're talking about the
16 same section. Section 4 is just a repeal of a
17 single -- you're talking about Part A, Section 4?
18 That's a repeal of a single, no longer relevant
19 provision. It's just one sentence.
20 Maybe you mean Section 5?
21 SENATOR PALUMBO: Yes. Yes. I
22 apologize. Section 5. Yes, Section 4 is the
23 repealer. Next one. Got it right here.
24 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Okay. So
25 through you, Madam President, this provision
6938
1 deals with substantial rehabilitation. So it
2 is -- it is -- again, this is -- obviously this
3 bill is -- this small paragraph that's amended
4 here is embedded in a very long statute.
5 In this context, "substantial
6 rehabilitation" means a building-wide
7 rehabilitation. Which would usually be
8 undertaken when the building has very serious
9 problems like -- that might be caused by a fire
10 or, you know, serious structural problems with
11 the building. And in those circumstances, it is
12 possible to get -- if you undertake that work,
13 you can get an exemption from the applicability
14 of the rent laws.
15 SENATOR PALUMBO: Will the sponsor
16 continue to yield.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
18 sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
20 Madam President, yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
24 Senator.
25 So in that regard, if it's a
6939
1 dilapidated building and it didn't suffer some
2 sort of damage like fire, flood -- but it's an
3 old, really unkempt building, can that type of a
4 building, if an owner decides to put money into
5 it and renovate substantially, can they -- are
6 they eligible for the exemption at that point?
7 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
8 Madam President. Again, because substantial
9 rehabilitation is -- it's embedded in a statute
10 and a lot of regulations, there are definitions
11 of substantial rehabilitation that would require
12 really fundamental changes, replacements of
13 building systems and other things, such that this
14 really could only occur in a vacant structure.
15 So the -- but yes, I mean, I've --
16 I'm trying to -- it's been a long day, and I'm
17 trying to remember where the question landed of
18 my colleague. But I think he's saying in that
19 circumstance would you be -- would that building
20 be exempt from --
21 SENATOR PALUMBO: Correct.
22 SENATOR KAVANAGH: -- from rent
23 stabilization, and the answer is yes.
24 SENATOR PALUMBO: Okay. One other
25 section, Part B, near the end. So at
6940
1 Section 2(a), and right above that it says --
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
3 Palumbo, are you asking the sponsor to yield?
4 SENATOR PALUMBO: Yes, ma'am,
5 Madam President --
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Will the
7 sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR PALUMBO: -- would the
9 sponsor continue to yield.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
11 sponsor yield?
12 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
13 Madam President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you.
17 And I'll direct your attention to
18 that part, if I may, where it specifically
19 mentions Regina Metro. We won't cover -- my
20 colleague covered that very thoroughly. It's
21 public policy of the Legislature that we clearly
22 define the scope of the fraud exception, that it
23 was not in the opinion, I guess, of the drafter,
24 of the sponsor, that you don't want to discourage
25 and penalize fraud against the rent regulatory
6941
1 system itself as well as against individual
2 tenants.
3 And then in Section 2, this is the
4 operative part: "2.(a) Nothing in this act, or
5 the HSTPA, or prior law, shall be construed as
6 restricting, impeding or diminishing the use of
7 records of any age or type, going back to any
8 date that may be relevant, for the purposes of
9 determining the status of any apartment under
10 the rent stabilization law."
11 And this is something that I
12 mentioned when we had our discussions earlier
13 tonight. But that documentary evidence or
14 information can be used to determine if you were
15 looking to, quote, unquote, I guess claw back a
16 deregulated apartment and bring it back into the
17 rent stabilization. Is that accurate?
18 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
19 Madam President. This act would refer in this
20 context to Part B. You know, just -- because
21 each part -- as the bill notes at the beginning,
22 the bill is divided into Part A, Part B, and
23 Part C. And to the extent you're talking about
24 an act, for example, the effective date at the
25 bottom of Part B is "This act shall take effect
6942
1 immediately." And "act" there refers to Part B.
2 So what we're saying is nothing in
3 this act -- nothing in -- what that says is
4 nothing in Part B or in the HSTPA or prior law
5 shall be construed to do those things.
6 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
7 Madam President. On the bill.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
9 Palumbo on the bill.
10 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
11 Senator Kavanagh.
12 And this is -- I mean, you've been
13 doing this a lot of years. You're an expert on
14 this stuff. I'm not. Even when I have the same
15 bill. You know, I get pretty good with it, when
16 I have the right bill in front of me.
17 But really what concerns me is this.
18 And this is similar to what we've been talking
19 about earlier. Because now having been in the
20 Legislature for 10 years, I've actually seen even
21 this year a bill circulating allowing a
22 retroactive almost do-over for -- in the
23 appellate courts for a decision where the law,
24 statutory law has changed recently that you might
25 have the opportunity to get another bite at the
6943
1 apple.
2 So when you couple that with what
3 this particular bill does, as I'm thinking about
4 this, I'm saying, could you imagine in the
5 United States of America that you have a
6 government that says, you know what, this
7 person's going to have due process, they're going
8 to have their day in court, happy day. They go
9 to court, they go all the way up to the highest
10 court in the state. The highest court in the
11 state says: Actually, no, you have no case.
12 Based upon all of the law, you haven't met
13 United States Supreme Court standards -- which we
14 were talking about earlier tonight, because
15 that's the basis of a retroactive-application-
16 type statute.
17 And then the government says, I
18 don't like the way that worked out. You know
19 what we're going to do? We're going to change
20 the law. We're going to come back in a few
21 weeks, we're going to change the law, and then
22 we're going to have a provision in the law that
23 allows you to go back and fix it.
24 Because we fixed it by statute
25 because we as government know best. Not the
6944
1 courts, not the existing law at the time of that
2 decision. We're giving a giant do-over in an
3 industry, as we've been talking about -- I won't
4 belabor it -- that is absolutely crushing
5 property owners. And again, they're not angels,
6 many of them, and they know to pay when they
7 don't do things properly.
8 But we also need to use a carrot,
9 not only a stick, to cultivate this industry.
10 Because you know what happens? They leave. Or
11 they have dilapidated, disgusting buildings that
12 they don't want to put hundreds of thousands if
13 not millions of dollars into in order to have
14 some return on their investment.
15 Because that's not how it works in
16 business. You don't say, You know what I'm going
17 to do, I'm going to take a bunch of my reserves,
18 I'm going to pour it into this building, and I
19 want to make less than 1 percent. That's what I
20 want to do. I want to take all this money that I
21 have in my hand, I want to put it someplace and
22 not make any money on it. Because that's not
23 reality.
24 So, Madam President and
25 Senator Kavanagh, it's late in the evening and I
6945
1 do appreciate your indulgence. I just can't
2 support this bill. And most importantly, the
3 retroactive aspect of it I believe is
4 unconstitutional.
5 And for those purposes, I'll be
6 voting no.
7 Thank you, Madam President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
9 Weber, why do you rise?
10 SENATOR WEBER: Thank you,
11 Madam President. Will the sponsor yield just for
12 a couple of questions?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
14 Kavanagh, do you yield?
15 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
16 Madam President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR WEBER: Thank you,
20 Madam President. As it stands now, the -- and
21 hopefully you can supply some clarity, rent
22 stabilized apartments must be the primary
23 residence of the tenant.
24 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
25 Madam President, there's nothing in -- I don't
6946
1 think there's anything in this bill that requires
2 that. But yeah, that is a provision of the rent
3 stabilization law.
4 SENATOR WEBER: Right. So it seems
5 like from the language, the way I interpret it or
6 as it's been pointed out to me, that the new
7 language gives the tenant the right to pass along
8 the apartment to a successor, basically, or a
9 relative or some sort of heir, even if they've
10 not been using it as their primary residence?
11 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
12 Madam President. You know, this language is
13 complicated, and I think it would be helpful if
14 we refer to the specific language, so -- just
15 because it will be -- it will just be easier to
16 be clear.
17 I believe my colleague is referring
18 to Section 3 of Part A on page 4 of the bill, is
19 that right?
20 SENATOR WEBER: Right. The area
21 where -- through you, Madam President, will the
22 sponsor yield?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Will the
24 sponsor yield?
25 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
6947
1 Madam President, yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR WEBER: Right. I guess the
5 area where it talks about permanently vacated and
6 a definition and so forth.
7 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yeah. Through
8 you, Madam President, if I may explain, there are
9 currently -- there have been for a very long time
10 provisions in the rent laws, in the rent
11 stabilization law that permit successors. And
12 they must be family members, and they must be
13 residents of the building -- I'm sorry, they must
14 be a resident of the apartment along with the
15 tenant of record for a defined period of time.
16 The defined period depends on
17 whether they're a senior citizen or whether
18 they're a disabled person or some other factor.
19 This provision, again -- in our
20 effort to clarify the law and minimize the need
21 for future litigation, it has come up in cases,
22 when is the relevant period to measure whether
23 the person has met that obligation to be living
24 in the unit before the primary tenant vacates.
25 And courts in the First and Second Departments
6948
1 have concluded in litigation on two different --
2 they've picked two different rules for this.
3 So what this provision does is just
4 add a single sentence to an existing structure.
5 You already have to have been a resident, along
6 with the primary resident, immediately prior to
7 that person permanently vacating. And it just
8 says permanently vacating means the point at
9 which the resident actually -- the primary
10 resident actually left the unit, the tenant of
11 record actually left the unit.
12 So, for example, if Senator Skoufis
13 and I were -- met the family definition and were
14 living in an apartment and I had -- and we had a
15 lease -- and I was the sole tenant of record and
16 I left the apartment now, but my -- but the lease
17 went through July, this bill says the point at
18 which you're looking, whether the continuous --
19 you know, the joint occupancy provision has been
20 met, would be this moment when I leave, as
21 opposed to, say, you know, three or four months
22 from now when the lease expires.
23 But again, you know, theoretically,
24 you could go -- you could pick either of those as
25 the option, because two different courts have
6949
1 split on how to define this provision. We
2 thought it was worth clarifying.
3 SENATOR WEBER: And through you,
4 Madam President, will the sponsor continue to
5 yield?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Will the
7 sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
9 Madam President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR WEBER: I want to give you
13 maybe a scenario based on the new language.
14 You know, if someone rents a
15 stabilized apartment and you live, say, in
16 Rockland or Bedford or the Hamptons and use it
17 only to see, you know -- meaning you reside in
18 the Hamptons and you have the apartment in the
19 city and you only use it temporarily, is that
20 your interpretation that that could be used like
21 that right now?
22 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
23 Madam President. No, this really does not have
24 to do with the question of whether you're meeting
25 the -- as was noted before, there is a primary
6950
1 residence requirement in the rent laws. And if
2 you violate that, that could be a basis for
3 eviction.
4 This bill is about when succession
5 rights adhere to someone who is not the tenant.
6 If you're the tenant of record, you don't need
7 succession rights.
8 So again, if -- let's say a parent
9 has a valid tenancy and they are a primary
10 resident and they live there, and they are going
11 to move out but their son or daughter is living
12 in the unit with them, they have to live in the
13 unit for a particular period of time before the
14 parent leaves. And, you know, continuously up to
15 that moment, and then they have the succession
16 right.
17 This just defines -- it's a fairly
18 narrow issue, but it just defines what the phrase
19 "permanently vacated" means. I think some courts
20 have interpreted it to have kind of a legal
21 vacature where the lease was up even though the
22 parent might have moved out six months ago, but
23 they waited, you know, till the end of the lease.
24 And other courts have said no, if -- the moment
25 the parent moves out is the moment that it
6951
1 qualifies as permanently vacated.
2 So this law just picks the latter as
3 the rule because, again, the First and the Second
4 Department, without guidance, have interpreted
5 this provision differently.
6 SENATOR WEBER: And through you,
7 Madam President, will the sponsor continue to
8 yield.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Will the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
12 Madam President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR WEBER: So under the
16 provisions now, if the successor or, say, the son
17 in this case is now in the apartment, the mother
18 can continue to pay the rent?
19 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
20 Madam President, there's nothing in the rent laws
21 to prevent somebody else from paying your rent if
22 they choose to.
23 SENATOR WEBER: And through you,
24 Madam President, will the sponsor continue to
25 yield?
6952
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
4 Madam President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR WEBER: The concern I'm
8 hearing from a lot of people who own these type
9 of properties is that some of these new
10 provisions could encourage people to hoard
11 apartments which really need to go to people who
12 are in need and -- you know, it's not supposed to
13 be landlords necessarily subsidizing someone's
14 vacation home, potentially. And under this new
15 provision, they're concerned that that could be
16 the case.
17 When you wrote these new provisions
18 did you consider such consequences?
19 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
20 Madam President. This provision mirrors the
21 existing law, the status quo in one of the two
22 departments that have had to interpret the rent
23 laws. Because, again, the rent laws only apply
24 in Nassau and New York City and Rockland and
25 Westchester at the moment.
6953
1 But this -- this is the status quo
2 in about -- in a portion of that jurisdiction,
3 and it is not the status quo because the court
4 has interpreted it differently.
5 But I can't think of a way that this
6 provision, one way or the other, would cause
7 someone or encourage someone to hoard apartments.
8 This is just a provision about when
9 somebody was actually physically living in the
10 apartment for a significant period with the
11 tenant and is a family -- and qualifies as a
12 family member, can basically receive succession
13 rights and continue to live there.
14 SENATOR WEBER: Thank you.
15 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Thank you.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Are there
17 any other Senators wishing to be heard?
18 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
19 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
20 Read the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Call the
24 roll.
25 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6954
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
2 Kavanagh to explain his vote.
3 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Thank you,
4 Madam President.
5 I want to note that my previously
6 hypothetical family member is voting no on this
7 bill, Senator Skoufis, which doesn't seem right
8 somehow.
9 (Laughter.)
10 SENATOR KAVANAGH: But I do want to
11 just clarify; we had a lot of discussion today
12 about renter activity.
13 The Regina Metro case is about the
14 Court of Appeals policing the circumstances in
15 which we cannot apply laws in this room
16 retroactively. It is, as was mentioned in
17 earlier debate, sometimes a complicated, nuanced
18 analysis. But this bill, as well as the bill we
19 discussed previously, repeatedly states that the
20 goal is not to create new kinds of retroactive
21 liability but to clarify the law so that courts
22 don't have to continue to review Regina Metro and
23 figure out exactly what they meant.
24 And again, this provision that we
25 were discussing today, especially with
6955
1 Senator Martins, specifically says that it is our
2 goal to mirror the standard as it appeared in
3 Grimm, which is the law that predated
4 Regina Metro and was in place with the HSTPA.
5 But again, I think the discussion
6 we've had today has been important, and I
7 appreciate my colleagues shedding light on these
8 matters. And I will be voting aye.
9 Thank you.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
11 Kavanagh to be recorded in the affirmative.
12 Senator Martins to explain his vote.
13 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
14 Madam President. I'll be brief.
15 Madam President, as I stated
16 earlier, I'll be voting no, and I think I just
17 voted no.
18 But there is no reason for this bill
19 other than to allow for the retroactive
20 application of lawsuits against landlords. None.
21 If there was, we wouldn't need it, because
22 Regina Metro actually says it has no application
23 to a prospective approach. We're in 2023. There
24 was a four-year lookback as of 2019 when the law
25 was passed. We're well within the six years.
6956
1 This is all about applying it retroactively.
2 It's wrong. We should not be doing
3 that. We should be focusing our attention not on
4 defunding landlords but encouraging them to
5 reinvest and create greater housing and more
6 affordability. I vote no.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
8 Martins to be recorded in the negative.
9 Announce the results.
10 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
11 Calendar 747, those Senators voting in the
12 negative are Senators Ashby, Borrello,
13 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming,
14 Lanza, Mannion, Martinez, Martins, Mattera,
15 Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads,
16 Rolison, Scarcella-Spanton, Skoufis, Stec,
17 Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.
18 Ayes, 37. Nays, 25.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
20 is passed.
21 Senator Gianaris.
22 SENATOR GIANARIS: All right,
23 Madam President. What we expect to be the final
24 debate of the night, Calendar 1802, by
25 Senator Skoufis. It's going to be a doozy.
6957
1 (Laughter.)
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
3 Secretary will read.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 1802, Assembly Bill Number 4282B, by
6 Assemblymember Paulin, an act to amend the
7 Town Law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
9 Lanza, why do you rise?
10 SENATOR LANZA: Madam President, I
11 believe there's an amendment at the desk, the
12 last amendment I believe will appear at the desk.
13 I waive the reading of that
14 amendment and ask that you recognize
15 Senator Weik.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Thank you,
17 Senator Lanza.
18 Upon review of the amendment, in
19 accordance with Rule 6, Section 4B, I rule it
20 nongermane and out of order at this time.
21 SENATOR LANZA: Accordingly,
22 Madam President, I appeal the ruling of the chair
23 and ask that Senator Weik be heard on the appeal.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The appeal
25 has been made and recognized, and Senator Weik
6958
1 may be heard.
2 SENATOR WEIK: Thank you,
3 Madam President.
4 This amendment is germane to the
5 bill-in-chief because the constitutional
6 amendment requires local elections in New York
7 City to be held on even years, and the underlying
8 bill requires local elections around the state to
9 be held on even years, with the exception of
10 New York City.
11 According to the sponsor of the
12 underlying bill, New York's current system of
13 holding certain town and other local elections in
14 odd-numbered years leads to voter confusion and
15 contributes to low voter turnout in local
16 elections.
17 For this reason, I'm confused why
18 the sponsor is not pushing for the constitutional
19 amendment to have New York City elections to be
20 held on the even years. This -- the reason my
21 bill -- the reason my bill ca -- ca -- cares out?
22 Excuse me. It's late, and I can't see straight
23 (laughing).
24 -- carves our local elections
25 outside New York City is because I have heard
6959
1 intense pushback from my locals on this bill.
2 The locals I represent believe having local
3 elections on odd years allows for candidates and
4 voters to focus on local issues without being
5 drowned out by state and national issues.
6 And having been a local elected
7 official for many years, I know that it's so
8 important -- and so many of us in this room
9 started off by being a local elected official.
10 And those issues that pertain to our towns and
11 our counties and our villages are so very
12 different than the national issues. They really
13 do deserve the attention of our voters, and the
14 voters should have the opportunity to separate
15 those issues from national issues and really
16 understand who they're voting for, what the
17 issues are, and why they're voting.
18 So to combine all of these is really
19 just an effort to shove everything in one and not
20 allow voters to separate what the issues are and
21 make an educated choice.
22 For these reasons, I would strongly
23 urge the members of this chamber to support my
24 amendment.
25 SENATOR GIANARIS: Madam President.
6960
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
2 Gianaris.
3 SENATOR GIANARIS: Before we move
4 on, allow me to move that session remain in
5 session beyond the hour of midnight.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: So
7 ordered.
8 Thank you, Senator Weik.
9 I want to remind the house that the
10 vote is on the procedures of the house and the
11 ruling of the chair.
12 Those in favor of overruling the
13 chair, signify by saying aye.
14 (Response of "Aye.")
15 SENATOR LANZA: Show of hands.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: A show of
17 hands has been requested and so ordered.
18 Announce the results.
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 21.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The ruling
21 of the chair stands, and the bill-in-chief is now
22 before the house.
23 Senator Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, why
24 do you rise?
25 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
6961
1 Thank you, Madam President. I was wondering if
2 the sponsor would yield for a few questions.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
4 Skoufis, do you yield?
5 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Of course.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
7 Senator yields.
8 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
9 Thank you, Senator Skoufis. I guess we'll start
10 what has been described as a doozy of a debate.
11 I would like to ask you why this
12 legislation has been proposed.
13 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
14 Madam President, I think it's a great place to
15 start.
16 This is not a new bill. This isn't
17 a bill that should take anyone by surprise. It
18 hasn't come out of nowhere. In fact, this bill
19 was introduced originally, or a version of this
20 bill was introduced originally on April 17, 2013,
21 by then-Senator Carlucci, and so it's been around
22 for over a decade at this point, just over a
23 decade.
24 And the reason why I sponsor the
25 bill and why I've pushed the bill and why it's
6962
1 here on the floor is because I believe that we
2 have a responsibility, an obligation as
3 policymakers to create an environment that
4 fosters high voter turnout and participation.
5 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
6 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
7 yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
14 Thank you.
15 Do you have any data or polling to
16 support the fact that there is some difference in
17 voter turnout between odd and even years?
18 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
19 Madam President, there is almost endless
20 empirical evidence that demonstrates moving local
21 municipal elections from odd years to even years
22 when there are other contests on the ballot
23 without exception increases voter participation
24 in those local elections.
25 Just a couple of examples. El Paso,
6963
1 Texas, in 2017, prior to their shift to an
2 even-year cycle, their mayoral election had a
3 mere 8 percent voter turnout. In 2020, aligned
4 with a presidential cycle and other races, their
5 voter turnout was 45 percent in that same mayoral
6 election, a 460 percent increase from 2017.
7 The only other state that requires
8 local elections to be on even-year cycles is
9 Nevada. They recently had their first cycle in
10 which local races were on an even-year cycle, and
11 one example from Nevada, in 2022, which was their
12 first time doing this, the North Las Vegas
13 municipal election saw voter turnout of
14 11,061 voters. In 2019, their previous cycle,
15 they saw less than half of that, 4,661.
16 So there's not just an increase in
17 voter participation, there's an enormous increase
18 in voter participation.
19 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
20 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
21 continue to yield.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
23 sponsor yield?
24 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
6964
1 sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: So
3 those facts that you just stated were from out
4 of -- from other states.
5 Do we have any information about
6 elections within New York State that indicate
7 that there should be a better turnout on these
8 even years versus odd?
9 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
10 Madam President, there is some limited data.
11 There are, by my count, four counties in New York
12 that hold their county elections or choose to
13 hold their county elections on even year cycles,
14 including Putnam county and Broome County, among
15 a couple of others.
16 And yes, certainly the turnout in
17 those county races in those even-year cycles is
18 dramatically higher than counties that hold their
19 county elections on odd-year cycles.
20 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
21 Through you, Madam President, would the sponsor
22 continue to yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
24 sponsor yield?
25 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
6965
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
2 sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: So
4 you mentioned two other jurisdictions. Is
5 that -- can I assume from that that there are
6 only two states that have a provision that
7 require local elections in even years?
8 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
9 Madam President. Currently there's one other
10 state, Nevada. There are a host of other states
11 that provide for an option.
12 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
13 Okay. Through you, Madam President, will the
14 sponsor continue to yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: So
21 absent from this legislation is any applicability
22 to New York City. And based on what I saw, the
23 most recent mayoral election in 2021 had the
24 lowest voter turnout. And I'm wondering, has the
25 sponsor considered making this bill applicable to
6966
1 New York City and why you haven't?
2 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
3 Madam President. The short answer is yes, in
4 terms of whether it was considered.
5 But the reality is, as we just heard
6 a little bit about prior, there is a
7 constitutional requirement for cities to hold
8 their local elections on odd-year cycles. I'm
9 supportive of moving forward with the multiyear
10 process of amending the constitution and shifting
11 cities into an even-year cycle, as well as -- and
12 I'm sure it will come up during the debate -- a
13 number of constitutionally protected offices that
14 are carved out from this particular bill.
15 But that is a multiyear process, and
16 I look forward to supporting that kind of an
17 amendment next year, as well as the following
18 cycle, because as you know, two successive
19 legislatures have to past a constitutional
20 amendment.
21 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
22 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
23 continue to yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
25 sponsor yield?
6967
1 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Yes, the
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: So
5 I think it's worth noting, since we're talking
6 about constitutional amendments, that this body
7 has proposed three election-related ballot
8 measures in the year 2021 that all related to
9 election issues, and all three of them failed.
10 And I'm wondering if you've
11 considered whether the legislation coming out of
12 this body has now been rejected three times by
13 the voters, so is it possible we don't have a
14 good sense of what the voters truly want when it
15 relates to Election Law?
16 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
17 Madam President. I understand what you're
18 referencing. However, I -- quite frankly, I
19 don't connect those same dots.
20 The referenda that were rejected
21 last year are completely unrelated to this issue
22 and dealt with issues such as I believe same-day
23 voter registration, among others.
24 And I will note that voter turnout
25 last year, the turnout that rejected those
6968
1 amendments, was extremely low.
2 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
3 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
4 continue to yield.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
6 sponsor yield?
7 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: So
11 in my county we have quite lengthy ballots, and
12 it has typically your federal candidates all the
13 way to the left, a lot of judges in the middle,
14 and then state candidates all the way to the
15 right, like State Senator and State Assembly.
16 And the ballot is quite lengthy.
17 And I'm wondering if you've
18 considered that issue in adding more to the
19 ballot.
20 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
21 Madam President. The answer is yes, that was
22 considered. And there was some consultation
23 between the State Board of Elections and myself
24 on this particular issue.
25 It's my understanding that outside
6969
1 of New York City, the typical ballot length, the
2 physical ballot length outside of New York City
3 is about 17 inches. The machines that can accept
4 ballots can accept ballots up to 22 inches wide.
5 And so there's actually, in most jurisdictions,
6 five inches of space left for larger paper that
7 can be utilized.
8 But I will also note, in the
9 unlikely event that 22 inches is not even enough,
10 there's nothing that prevents us from having
11 multiple ballots. Of course, that is not ideal.
12 We want to be able to fit everything on one
13 ballot, as opposed to two.
14 But in New York City, it is
15 commonplace for there to be multiple ballots.
16 They've been doing that for many, many years.
17 But I believe 22 inches will satisfy the very
18 large majority of circumstances.
19 And I'll note that again in those
20 four counties that are already on an even-year
21 cycle, they are, I'm told, able to keep their
22 races on one ballot.
23 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
24 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
25 continue to yield.
6970
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Will the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: So
7 I hope you're right, because people like me that
8 now need reading glasses, we don't want the print
9 to get so small that we have a difficult time
10 reading it, because we obviously want to
11 encourage people to get all the way to the end of
12 the ballot.
13 And I notice that the sponsor shares
14 that opinion. And if I could -- indulge me a
15 moment -- I'd like to read something from a bill
16 that you previously sponsored, Senate Bill 5943,
17 where you say: "In New York, the current ballot
18 order is structured in a way that judicial
19 candidates are listed prior to congressional and
20 state candidates. Very few members of the public
21 actually know who the judicial candidates are,
22 and these candidates are often unopposed. When
23 the Board of Elections list the candidates in
24 this manner on the ballot and force candidates in
25 competitive races to the end of the ballot, it
6971
1 results in drop-offs, when voters decide on the
2 president, for example, but leave blank all other
3 races on the ballot."
4 So I was wondering if the sponsor
5 could comment to me as to how you think this
6 issue is addressed by making our ballot even
7 longer.
8 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
9 Madam President. That's a good question.
10 I am familiar with that bill. As
11 you noted, I sponsor it. We've passed that bill
12 in this chamber. We're hopeful that the Assembly
13 passes it before breaking for the year.
14 But the fact is that yes, there is
15 some drop-off as you move down the columns on a
16 ballot. That is human nature. Some people only
17 show up for those first couple of columns,
18 whether it's president or governor or U.S. Senate
19 or whatever it might be.
20 But the drop-off is quite marginal.
21 We're not talking, you know, 10 percent drop-off
22 from column to column, we're talking a pretty
23 small number. That said, we want to certainly
24 mitigate that as much as possible, even if it is
25 a small number.
6972
1 The fact is that, again, using some
2 of the examples I mentioned before, even if there
3 is a small drop-off once you get to those local
4 races, if this is enacted -- at the end of the
5 ballot, even considering that marginal, that
6 small drop-off, the total turnout will be
7 exponentially higher than what it currently is in
8 odd-year cycles.
9 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
10 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
11 continue to yield?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
13 Skoufis, do you yield?
14 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
16 Senator yields.
17 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
18 Well, certainly I hope you're right that there
19 won't be drop-off, because the people in this
20 chamber are likely going to be the people that
21 are all the way at the end of that ballot.
22 What I'd like to do is review with
23 you the fact that it -- reading this statute, it
24 says that the Village Law is amended, but only
25 for the guidelines for governments operating
6973
1 principally as a town.
2 So can I interpret that to mean that
3 this does not apply to the local village
4 elections which, under New York State Village
5 Law, are held either in March or August?
6 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
7 Madam President, that is correct. The provision
8 you're referencing refers to the half-dozen or so
9 municipalities in New York that are coterminous
10 town villages.
11 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
12 Okay. Thank you.
13 Madam President, will the
14 spokeswoman continue to yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
16 continue to yield?
17 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: So
21 I also noted that Section 3 states that
22 County Law will -- that this will apply to county
23 elected officials, but that it does not apply to
24 the sheriff, the county clerk, the district
25 attorney, Family Court judge, County Court judge,
6974
1 Surrogate Court judge or any offices with a
2 three-year term.
3 So in my read of this, it appears
4 that -- for instance, in Nassau County, where I'm
5 from, we have a county executive, which most
6 counties have. We also have county legislators.
7 And then of course we do have a DA, a county
8 clerk, and those are also county-wide elections.
9 So my read of this is that we would potentially
10 have even-year elections for the county
11 executive, county legislator, and then continue
12 on an odd year for the district attorney and the
13 county clerk.
14 Is my interpretation accurate?
15 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
16 Madam President, yes. That is a constitutional
17 requirement.
18 Or let me rephrase that. We had to
19 carve out those provisions due to a provision in
20 the State Constitution that requires, when
21 there's a vacancy in those particular offices,
22 there is a near immediate special election that
23 triggers a full new term. And so if there's a
24 vacancy in an odd year, the State Constitution
25 requires that the special election happen in that
6975
1 odd year for a new usually four-year term.
2 And so that's why we couldn't
3 include those offices in this bill. I would have
4 liked to have, but the Constitution prevented us
5 from doing so.
6 That is -- and I referenced this
7 before, that is also something that I would look
8 to clean up with a constitutional amendment.
9 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
10 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
11 continue to yield.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
13 sponsor yield?
14 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: So
18 in this situation, it's conceivable that a county
19 will have elections almost every year, especially
20 if they have two-year terms for their county exec
21 or their county leg, that now you're creating a
22 situation where counties are going to have --
23 every year have an election.
24 And that's a tremendous expense to
25 these counties. We have rent, we have poll
6976
1 watchers, there's -- because of the printing of
2 ballots, that you must have a certain number of
3 electronic ballots on hand.
4 So have you thought about the cost
5 to the counties trying to run these elections
6 that, as I said, potentially could be every year
7 going forward?
8 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
9 Madam President. Certainly I've contemplated
10 that.
11 I'll just note that counties who
12 administer these elections, they're already
13 administering elections every year. You know,
14 whether it's a county election or not, the county
15 BOE is still administering the presidential-year
16 elections and the gubernatorial-year elections.
17 So they're already administering elections every
18 November.
19 There will be some modest -- and I
20 don't want to overstate the savings, but there
21 will be some modest savings in those situations
22 where you do have DAs and sheriffs and county
23 clerks, in particular, and the county judicial
24 offices. Which in most counties are aligned on
25 the same odd-year cycle.
6977
1 Those will continue happening until
2 we hopefully enact a constitutional amendment
3 that shifts them as well. But then in the
4 subsequent odd-year cycle when they're not up,
5 there should not be in many cases county-wide
6 elections. And you will see some modest savings
7 in those particular cycles. So once every four
8 years.
9 But make no mistake, right now
10 county BOEs administer elections every year.
11 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
12 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
13 continue to yield?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Will the
15 sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: So
20 one of the things that I mentioned earlier when I
21 was quoting from the other bill that you sponsor
22 was the fact that the public actually -- very few
23 members of the public actually know who judicial
24 candidates are.
25 And in the situation that we've just
6978
1 described where we're going to have the county
2 exec and the county clerk on the even years and
3 now a lot of the judges -- or almost all of
4 them -- on the odd years, are we going to get
5 turnout for those judges?
6 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
7 Madam President. I assume you mean the judges
8 that are carved out of this bill due to the
9 constitutional constraints.
10 And look, you know, I would suggest
11 that turnout is already so low in these odd-year
12 elections, they probably can't go much lower. If
13 they do drop at all -- because there is not a
14 county executive race on the ballot, for
15 example -- I do think it would be pretty
16 marginal.
17 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
18 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
19 continue to yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Will the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: So
6979
1 I know that you mentioned initially that this
2 bill has been hanging around for a number of
3 years.
4 Has there been a request from
5 someone or NYCOM, an agency, an organization,
6 that has requested this legislation? Because I
7 have to tell you, in my district I'm getting a
8 lot of pushback and a lot of objection.
9 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
10 Madam President. Certainly there are a number of
11 organizations that support this bill and that
12 have been seeking reforms like this for some
13 time. Common Cause, for example, which is a
14 well-known good government group up here, and
15 Citizen Union, which is based in New York City,
16 are actually in the middle of a campaign to adopt
17 a constitutional amendment to move cities to even
18 years, as we were talking about before.
19 But most importantly, I've heard
20 from many voters who, quite frankly, don't
21 understand the patchwork of elections that we
22 have right now.
23 As you know, out on Long Island,
24 just as exists in the Hudson Valley and in most
25 places, especially outside of cities, we're not
6980
1 just talking about November general elections and
2 state and federal Primary Day -- once every four
3 years the presidential primary, which is about to
4 come up next year -- but we also have school
5 board and school budget elections. Many of us
6 have village elections in the spring. Many of us
7 have fire district and commissioner elections and
8 water district and commissioner elections, and
9 the list goes on and on and on.
10 And so I hear from voters
11 constantly: Do something about this! We have
12 voter fatigue. We can't keep up and keep track
13 of all of the elections and races.
14 And so this is an attempt to start
15 the consolidation process. And I agree probably
16 with many of you in this room, including across
17 the aisle, that there is more work to be done
18 even after this is enacted. But this is the
19 start of that attempt.
20 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
21 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
22 continue to yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
24 sponsor yield?
25 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
6981
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
2 sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: So
4 as you were just describing, there are so many
5 different elections that could potentially be
6 held. As my colleague Senator Weik mentioned
7 just in her potential amendment to this bill,
8 there is the potential, in my opinion, for voter
9 confusion regarding which issues affect the
10 state, which affect us nationwide, which affect
11 us school-district-wide.
12 And aren't we, by lumping all of
13 these elections into one year, potentially
14 causing voter confusion about the issues that
15 each of the candidates may be, you know, running
16 on? And, you know, for voters to understand the
17 different levels of government that they're faced
18 with on a ballot that's now 22 inches long, are
19 we potentially setting up some confusion for the
20 voters?
21 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
22 Madam President, I firmly do not believe so.
23 We're not talking about adding a
24 half-dozen, eight, 10, 12 races to the ballot.
25 At any given time we're talking about maybe a
6982
1 supervisor and town board and some town local
2 elections, or a county executive and county leg,
3 which is literally two additional races.
4 I will note that in your home
5 county, Nassau County, up until the 1970s
6 Nassau County actually held their county
7 elections on an even-year cycle. And at that
8 time there were about 200,000 more Republicans
9 than Democrats on the rolls, I'm told, in
10 Nassau County. Yet despite that, in 1970 the
11 Republican county executive, by the name of
12 Ralph Caso, had an unexpectedly very close
13 election. And it was only then that the
14 Republican majority and county executive decided
15 to actually shift to an odd-year cycle, in an
16 attempt -- from their perspective, right or
17 wrong -- to decrease voter turnout on the
18 Democratic side which they believed was happening
19 in these even years.
20 And it's my understanding from
21 people that I've spoken to in Nassau County that
22 there were never any complaints up until that
23 change about voter confusion, about people not
24 knowing, you know, who's running for county
25 executive versus who's running for Congress. And
6983
1 I understand it worked very well up until that
2 change was made.
3 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
4 Madam President, will the sponsor continue to
5 yield?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
7 continue to yield?
8 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
12 Well, it's funny -- because in 1970 I couldn't
13 vote; I doubt that you were even born. But the
14 funny thing is -- and you've opened the door to
15 the possibility that there's a motivation to
16 shifting these elections that may be in fact
17 political and not necessarily for the voters.
18 Because in 1970 your statement
19 indicates -- and as I said, I don't know, right
20 or wrong, was it motivated because the Democrats
21 maybe came out more on the even year and they
22 said, Let's shift it? And that has been
23 suggested by many of the people that are opposed
24 to this legislation.
25 I'd like to ask you, though, how
6984
1 this would affect -- and I'll give you a
2 hypothetical, which is not really a hypothetical,
3 it's actuality -- that our county executive in
4 Nassau County was elected in November of 2021 for
5 a term that began on January 1st of 2022. His
6 term will expire on December 31st of 2025. And
7 his election would be in November of 2025.
8 Can you tell me how this bill will
9 affect his next election?
10 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes. Through
11 you, Madam President. Very simply, when he or
12 whomever else runs for county executive in 2025,
13 he'll be running for a three-year term instead of
14 a four-year term, which will then get him or
15 whomever wins onto an even-year cycle thereafter.
16 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
17 Madam President, will the sponsor continue to
18 yield.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
20 continue to yield?
21 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: I
25 have a trouble with that, considering we have
6985
1 typical four-year terms. And we have a county
2 charter that I believe states that our county
3 executive is elected for a four-year term.
4 So I'm wondering, how does the
5 sponsor wrestle with that potential override of
6 the county charter in Nassau County?
7 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
8 Madam President, that is considered in this
9 amended version. And we, in conjunction with the
10 State Board of Elections, or in consultation with
11 the State Board of Elections, we included
12 language that effectively preempts county
13 charters.
14 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
15 Madam President, on the bill.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
17 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick on the bill.
18 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: I
19 want to thank Senator Skoufis for engaging in
20 this debate about this new bill.
21 I have some serious concerns. I
22 believe that our voters are overwhelmed with
23 multiple candidates running. And by shifting
24 these -- consolidating these elections onto very
25 lengthy ballots, potentially going to two pages,
6986
1 is going to cause that voter drop-off that I
2 referred to earlier.
3 I do -- as I did say, this body has
4 proposed multiple constitutional amendments,
5 three of which were related to Election Law, and
6 the voters have rejected all three of them. So I
7 do think that's an indication that the voters are
8 not happy with the election reforms that are
9 coming out of this body.
10 I do think that there is extreme --
11 excuse me, that there will be an additional
12 expense to localities trying to hold elections on
13 multiple years with, you know, rent and with
14 printing of ballots and with paying for poll
15 watchers -- I'm sorry, poll workers. I think
16 that those expenses are going to be burdensome
17 and another unfunded mandate to our local
18 governments.
19 Most troubling, though, as I stated,
20 is I do think that there is sort of the elephant
21 in the room -- no pun intended with the side of
22 the room that I sit on -- that the elephant in
23 the room is that there's some political
24 motivation to do this.
25 I don't think that that should ever
6987
1 motivate us to change the electoral process, and
2 I do think that we need to be considerate of the
3 fact that our voters deserve transparency and
4 multiple elections so that they can in fact
5 separate the issues out.
6 So for that reason I will be voting
7 no. Thank you, Madam President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Thank you.
9 Senator Martins, why do you rise?
10 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
11 I was wondering if the sponsor would yield for a
12 a few questions.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
14 Skoufis, do you yield?
15 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Of course.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
17 Senator yields.
18 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
19 Madam President. Through you.
20 Senator Skoufis, can you tell me
21 what counties you represent in the State of
22 New York?
23 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
24 Mr. President, I represent most of Orange County.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: Pardon?
6988
1 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Most of
2 Orange County.
3 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
4 Mr. President, through you, if the
5 sponsor would continue to yield.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
7 sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR MARTINS: And do you
12 represent any towns? And if so, can you tell us
13 which towns you represent?
14 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
15 Mr. President, I represent many towns. I don't
16 have the full list in front of me, but it's
17 probably close to about 20 towns.
18 SENATOR MARTINS: Can you give us
19 a -- Mr. President, through you, if the sponsor
20 would continue to yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 sponsor yields.
6989
1 SENATOR MARTINS: Can you give us a
2 few, just so we get a sense of place?
3 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Sure. A few in
4 Eastern Orange County include Woodbury, Cornwall,
5 New Windsor, Blooming Grove, Monroe, Tuxedo. I
6 can go on if you'd like.
7 SENATOR MARTINS: I appreciate
8 that. Thank you.
9 Mr. President, through you, if the
10 sponsor would continue to yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR MARTINS: So are there
17 issues that are particular to each one of those
18 counties for which there are elections specific
19 to the -- excuse me, to the towns that are
20 specific to those towns and that don't
21 necessarily carry over into other towns?
22 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
23 Mr. President, oftentimes, yes.
24 SENATOR MARTINS: Mr. President,
25 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
6990
1 yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
3 sponsor yield?
4 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR MARTINS: And are there
8 issues specific to Orange County for which the
9 Orange County government and any potential
10 candidates for Orange County government would
11 also be particularly interested in?
12 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
13 Mr. President, oftentimes, yes.
14 But I'll note that there are also
15 issues oftentimes specific to state senate
16 districts or congressional districts that span
17 multiple towns and sometimes multiple counties.
18 SENATOR MARTINS: Of course.
19 Mr. President, through you, if the sponsor would
20 continue to yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 sponsor yields.
6991
1 SENATOR MARTINS: And then of
2 course, Senator Skoufis, there are issues that
3 have to do with state issues and federal issues
4 that are separate than the town and county issues
5 as well. Correct?
6 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
7 Mr. President, oftentimes, yes.
8 SENATOR MARTINS: So I --
9 Mr. President, through you, if the sponsor would
10 continue to yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR MARTINS: So, you know, as
17 I see this, there are going to continue to be
18 odd-year elections for a time because the
19 State Constitution requires that certain offices
20 be held in odd years, isn't that correct?
21 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
22 SENATOR MARTINS: And so for how
23 long will -- Mr. President, through you, if the
24 sponsor would continue to yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
6992
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
6 Mr. President.
7 So how long do you anticipate that
8 we'll continue to have odd-year elections?
9 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
10 Mr. President. Honestly, it depends on how
11 quickly and how successfully we can enact a
12 constitutional amendment to move those offices
13 that I referenced before, as well as cities that
14 I referenced before.
15 The earliest that that kind of
16 amendment could be on the ballot I believe would
17 be November 2025.
18 SENATOR MARTINS: Mr. President,
19 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
20 yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 sponsor yields.
6993
1 SENATOR MARTINS: And if this bill
2 were to pass, when would this bill be effective?
3 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
4 Mr. President, it would shorten terms, as we
5 discussed before with our colleague. It would
6 shorten terms starting for local offices in 2025.
7 So if you run for a two-year term in
8 2025, you would under this bill be running for a
9 one-year term. If you run for a four-year term
10 in 2025 you would under this bill be running for
11 a three-year term.
12 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
13 Mr. President, through you, if the
14 sponsor would continue to yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR MARTINS: So in the likely
21 event that a constitutional amendment doesn't
22 pass, we will continue to have odd-year
23 elections, notwithstanding if this bill were to
24 pass and be signed into law. Isn't that correct?
25 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
6994
1 Mr. President. Regardless of this bill, we're
2 having local elections in 2025, as I just
3 mentioned. The earliest a constitutional
4 amendment could be enacted, as I mentioned
5 before, is November of 2025.
6 And so the earliest that we would
7 move off of, for some positions, an odd-year
8 cycle would be some local races moving onto an
9 even-year cycle starting in 2026.
10 We would hopefully enact, as I
11 mentioned before, an amendment as soon as 2025.
12 And so they're on pretty close to parallel
13 tracks, if that's what you're getting at.
14 SENATOR MARTINS: It is.
15 Mr. President, through you, if the
16 sponsor would continue to yield.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
18 sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR MARTINS: So understanding
23 the process to amend the State Constitution, that
24 would require a statewide referendum, would it
25 not, Senator Skoufis?
6995
1 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
2 Mr. President, of course.
3 SENATOR MARTINS: Mr. President,
4 through you, if the sponsor will continue to
5 yield.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
7 sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR MARTINS: So why are we
12 doing this today? Why are we putting this
13 state -- our towns, our counties, our local
14 communities -- through an effort that will only
15 partially move elections to even years when
16 there's still uncertainty out there as to whether
17 or not the State Constitution is going to be
18 amended in the way that you aspirationally hope
19 it will?
20 Why are we doing this today and
21 actually advancing something without having the
22 certainty that the State Constitution is actually
23 moving or changing?
24 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
25 Mr. President. First of all, I would note I wish
6996
1 this had gotten done a long time ago.
2 But more importantly, I reject the
3 proposition that it's an all-or-nothing
4 situation. While we pursue a constitutional
5 amendment, as we're discussing, I would love to
6 see, instead of 20 percent voter turnout in our
7 town supervisor and county elections, I'd love to
8 see 60, 70 percent turnout. Which I would
9 anticipate if this bill is enacted.
10 SENATOR MARTINS: Mr. President,
11 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
12 yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
14 sponsor yield?
15 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR MARTINS: Senator Skoufis,
19 do you have a bill before this house now that
20 would call for that constitutional amendment?
21 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
22 Mr. President, no. But I anticipate there will
23 be one for next session.
24 SENATOR MARTINS: Mr. President,
25 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
6997
1 yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
3 sponsor yield?
4 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR MARTINS: So there isn't
8 one before the house now for a constitutional
9 amendment that actually is required to do what
10 you hope to do, but you're advancing a bill today
11 on the floor knowing that we will continue to
12 have odd-year elections notwithstanding this
13 bill.
14 Can you reconcile that for me?
15 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
16 Mr. President, I'm happy to reconcile.
17 The reconciliation is simple. It is
18 that it is immaterial whether we pass a
19 constitutional amendment this year or next year,
20 because we will have to do second passage in
21 2025.
22 SENATOR MARTINS: Mr. President,
23 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
24 yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
6998
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR MARTINS: Yet,
6 Senator Skoufis, you still haven't answered the
7 question of what happens if that constitutional
8 amendment doesn't pass, as prior attempts to
9 change the Constitution haven't passed, as the
10 residents of the State of New York have rejected
11 several attempts to amend the Constitution that
12 have been advanced by this body.
13 What purpose would there be to
14 change the law now, before you change the
15 Constitution, as there will continue to be
16 odd-year elections going forward? And you don't
17 even have a bill in.
18 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Is there a
19 question?
20 SENATOR MARTINS: Yeah, it is.
21 What purpose is there to advancing
22 this now when we don't have a constitutional
23 amendment and you still don't have a bill in?
24 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Got it.
25 Through you, Mr. President, because
6999
1 again -- and I think I did answer this question,
2 even though it's the first time you're asking the
3 question, in a previous answer. Again, I reject
4 the premise of your suggestion that this is only
5 successful if it's an all-or-nothing or an all,
6 in your case, as you're getting at, proposition.
7 I feel that there absolutely is
8 benefit to moving town and county races to an
9 even-year cycle regardless of whether a
10 constitutional amendment is successful. Why
11 wouldn't you -- I guess I'll ask a question, if
12 you want to yield and answer. Why wouldn't you
13 want to see 50, 60, 70, maybe even upwards of
14 70 percent turnout in your county executive race?
15 Why wouldn't you want to see 70 percent of your
16 constituent voters choosing who's going to run
17 your county?
18 SENATOR MARTINS: Mr. President, is
19 Senator Skoufis asking me to yield?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
21 Skoufis, would you like Senator Martins to yield
22 for a question?
23 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Only if he wants
24 to answer.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
7000
1 Martins, would you yield in answer to the
2 question?
3 SENATOR MARTINS: I'll be happy to
4 yield. Please, go right ahead.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
6 Martins will be happy to yield. Senator Martins
7 yields.
8 SENATOR MARTINS: You can ask your
9 question, Senator.
10 SENATOR SKOUFIS: I think I did.
11 Why wouldn't you want to see
12 70 percent, 60 percent of your constituent voters
13 choosing your chief executive who runs the
14 county?
15 SENATOR MARTINS: Well,
16 Senator Skoufis, I happen to live in a county
17 where every resident not only has the right but
18 has the ability to vote. They choose to vote.
19 If they're happy with the turnout, they'll decide
20 to vote or won't decide to vote.
21 Now will you yield -- Mr. President,
22 through you, will the Senator yield for another
23 question?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
25 Skoufis, do you yield?
7001
1 SENATOR SKOUFIS: I'm happy to
2 yield, though I didn't get an answer to mine.
3 But please, go on.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR MARTINS: That is -- that
7 is the answer, Mr. President.
8 But let me ask you this. You know,
9 I have had a moment to go through even-year
10 elections, our Senate elections here in this
11 chamber, everyone's election here. And it's
12 remarkable -- I don't know, Senator, have you had
13 a chance to look at the voter turnout district by
14 district statewide for our Senate elections in
15 even years?
16 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
17 Mr. President, I confess I haven't looked at a
18 district-by-district, every district analysis of
19 turnout for State Senate, no.
20 SENATOR MARTINS: Well, these are
21 even years.
22 Mr. President, through you, if the
23 sponsor would continue to yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
25 sponsor yield?
7002
1 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR MARTINS: So it's an even
5 year. So I'm going to ask you, Senator Skoufis,
6 do you know what the voter turnout was for your
7 election just a few months ago?
8 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
9 Mr. President. In my district and in my area,
10 typically in midterm even-year cycles we have
11 roughly a 50 percent turnout. And in
12 presidential even-year cycles we typically have
13 around a 75 percent voter turnout.
14 SENATOR MARTINS: Mr. President,
15 through you, if the Senator will continue to
16 yield.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
18 sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR MARTINS: Senator, if you
23 can tell us -- I appreciate the percentages, but
24 numbers. What was the number back in November of
25 turnout in your election?
7003
1 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
2 Mr. President, offhand, I don't have the exact
3 number you're looking for.
4 But I suspect whatever point you're
5 trying to make could probably be made with the
6 pretty close estimates that I gave you just a
7 moment ago.
8 SENATOR MARTINS: Mr. President,
9 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
10 yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR MARTINS: They were
17 percentages. So numbers. If you'd give me your
18 district number, I'll just tell you what the
19 number was.
20 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
21 Mr. President, 42nd District.
22 And I'll note whatever number you're
23 about to share is no doubt exponentially higher
24 than what the number would be if we were running
25 in odd-year cycles. But please, go on.
7004
1 SENATOR MARTINS: Mr. President,
2 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
3 yield.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
5 sponsor yield?
6 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR MARTINS: So the turnout
10 for the 42nd District was a hundred and -- just
11 over 101,000. But there was a district here and
12 a series of districts in this Senate just this
13 past November, in an even year, that had mid-30s,
14 mid-40s in terms of turnout.
15 And so the ability for people to
16 turn out during elections I think is very
17 important to this body.
18 Did you ever consider, Senator, what
19 you could do in order to enhance or expand voter
20 turnout, even in even years, for those districts
21 that have remarkably low voter turnout? Did you
22 ever consider that?
23 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
24 Mr. President, of course. And I think this body
25 has considered it basically every session in the
7005
1 past five sessions. And reforms such as early
2 voting are meant exactly to get at the goal that
3 you're describing.
4 I'll note even in those districts
5 that have lower turnout like you're describing,
6 40,000 people instead of 100,000 people, all
7 things are relative.
8 I now would ask you -- I suspect you
9 don't probably have this in front of you, and I
10 don't blame you for it. But in those areas where
11 there was 40,000 people -- where there were
12 40,000 people coming out last year, how many
13 people came out in those areas in the mayoral
14 election in New York City in those State Senate
15 districts? I suspect it was far lower than
16 40,000.
17 SENATOR MARTINS: Mr. President, on
18 the bill.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
20 Martins on the bill.
21 SENATOR MARTINS: Now,
22 Mr. President, I'm left to wonder the motivation
23 behind bringing a bill to the floor with the
24 stated purpose of consolidating elections,
25 understanding full well that it is going to take
7006
1 years to get a constitutional amendment passed in
2 order to actually effectively move -- not to
3 introduce a bill for the constitutional amendment
4 at all, but advancing a bill that simply moves
5 town and county elections that are not prescribed
6 by the Constitution.
7 So is this about consolidating
8 elections in even years? Or is this about
9 something else, Mr. President?
10 So I'm left to consider that it's
11 probably about something else. Because if that
12 constitutional amendment doesn't pass, we're
13 still going to have odd-year elections. We're
14 still going to have the same concerns that the
15 sponsor has with regard to turnout in those
16 odd-year elections, they're just going to be for
17 different races. Perhaps races that the sponsor
18 and people who have encouraged him to move this
19 bill aren't interested in. Maybe they're just
20 interested in other elections that actually are
21 embraced by the bill as it's currently
22 constituted.
23 So this, Mr. President, is not about
24 consolidation. It's not about voter turnout.
25 It's not about making things easier. It's all
7007
1 about a certain result, and it's about politics.
2 And I think we all understand -- the
3 sponsor even I think acknowledged that there are
4 issues that are specific to our towns. There are
5 issues that are specific to our counties. There
6 are issues that are specific to our state and to
7 the federal government.
8 Creating confusion at one time so
9 that we have layers of elections, and asking our
10 constituents to have to be overwhelmed with
11 commercials for federal elections at the same
12 time that they have a town supervisor running, is
13 patently unfair.
14 There's a reason we have separated
15 our elections in the suburbs. And it's something
16 that is unique, ladies and gentlemen and my dear
17 colleagues, to those of us who live in the
18 suburbs and live in rural communities here in the
19 state. Not to those who live in New York City,
20 because you're excluded. It only applies to us,
21 to our towns, to our counties, to our elections.
22 Now, I understand from other
23 legislation that has appeared here on the floor
24 over the past year -- and for years, from what I
25 also understand -- that the sponsor may have
7008
1 issues locally with his own local towns and
2 counties. But not us. I'm perfectly okay with
3 my county elections being in odd years. I'm
4 perfectly okay with my town elections being in
5 odd years. And you know what? So are my
6 constituents. They're okay with that. They
7 don't need Albany telling them what's good or
8 isn't good for them.
9 I don't have people calling me,
10 asking me to change the year to an even year
11 because they somehow feel disenfranchised. To
12 the contrary, I've got people calling me asking
13 me, "What's this all about? Why would they be
14 doing this? It seems awfully political to me.
15 We want no part of it."
16 So, Mr. President, I'm concerned
17 once again that here we are again, from Albany,
18 deciding, You know what, these towns, we don't
19 care what they want. Their constituents? Too
20 bad. We're going to impose because we have
21 somebody who decides that they want greater voter
22 turnout in their mind without looking to where
23 the actual voter apathy exists.
24 And you know what? It's not in
25 Nassau County, regardless of what you say. It's
7009
1 not in Suffolk County. And I'm sure it's not in
2 Orange County or Rockland or Ulster or Dutchess.
3 It's in other places. If we went and looked
4 carefully, we'd see where the voter apathy is in
5 this state. And if we really wanted to do
6 something about it, we'd go out there and
7 encourage people in those communities to get out
8 to vote.
9 There's only one Senate district in
10 the entire City of New York where there are over
11 100,000 people who came out to vote in this last
12 November's election. One. One. And I'll tell
13 you this. It wasn't anyone on that side of the
14 aisle, it was a member of the State Senate that
15 comes from the five boroughs who sits on this
16 side of the aisle, and he had greater than
17 100,000 people come out to vote in his
18 election -- and he wasn't even opposed.
19 (Laughter.)
20 SENATOR MARTINS: I'll leave it to
21 your imaginations to think about who that person
22 may or may not be.
23 But go home, take a look at those
24 numbers. Take a look at the voter apathy. Take
25 a look at where it exists. It's not in
7010
1 Nassau County, it's not in Orange County. So
2 leave our towns and counties alone.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
4 Gianaris.
5 SENATOR MARTINS: Mr. President, I
6 vote no.
7 SENATOR GIANARIS: If the Senator
8 will yield just for a clarification, because I'm
9 genuinely interested in this. Just one question
10 of Senator Martins, if he would yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
12 Martins, do you yield?
13 SENATOR MARTINS: I'd be happy to
14 yield.
15 SENATOR GIANARIS: Did you not just
16 earlier in the debate point out that Senator
17 Skoufis's district had over 100,000 voters in
18 this most recent election?
19 SENATOR MARTINS: He's not in
20 New York City.
21 SENATOR GIANARIS: Oh, only
22 New York City, I see.
23 SENATOR MARTINS: I'm sorry,
24 Senator Gianaris.
25 SENATOR GIANARIS: I misunderstood
7011
1 your question. Thank you, Senator Martins.
2 SENATOR MARTINS: So Mr. President,
3 with that, I vote nay. Thank you, sir.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
5 you, Senator Martins.
6 And thank you for your praise of an
7 unnamed person maybe known as Andrew Lanza.
8 (Laughter.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
10 Rhoads, why do you rise?
11 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
12 yield to some questions, Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
14 sponsor yield?
15 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Of course.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
19 Senator Skoufis.
20 You know, we were speaking before
21 about things that our moms had said. Mom had
22 said nothing good happens after midnight, and
23 here we are.
24 (Laughter.)
25 SENATOR RHOADS: So,
7012
1 Senator Skoufis, I believe that you stated, at
2 least in my readings with respect to your bill,
3 that your bill had three main purposes.
4 The first purpose was to save money.
5 Right? In fact, you said this bill will have,
6 quote, a tremendous savings for the taxpayers.
7 How?
8 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
9 Mr. President, there was some conversation to
10 this point a little bit earlier. Once,
11 hopefully -- and I believe it will materialize --
12 once we enact a constitutional amendment and
13 shift all these races to even years, there will
14 be a tremendous savings.
15 In the interim, there will be some
16 savings. As I described before, in those
17 odd-year cycles where you're not having those
18 countywide races that are carved out in this
19 bill, you will see some modest savings in the
20 meantime.
21 SENATOR RHOADS: And where will
22 those savings come from?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
24 Rhoads --
25 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
7013
1 yield to another question.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
3 sponsor yield?
4 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR RHOADS: And where will
8 those savings come from when we have additional
9 expenses -- because you now have more people on
10 the ballot, presumably have more people coming --
11 you have longer ballots that you now have to
12 print because you have a greater number of
13 candidates. You've mentioned the possibility of
14 having to have two separate ballots in order for
15 a voter to be able to cast a ballot because the
16 ballot may be so long.
17 So where are those savings
18 materialized, Senator?
19 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
20 Mr. President. The savings, the immediate
21 savings that materialize are again in those
22 odd years. So once every four years when you're
23 not going to have a county clerk, county DA, and
24 county sheriff on the ballot and don't have to
25 administer countywide elections or administer
7014
1 elections in most communities in that county as a
2 local BOE.
3 The -- I will just respond to one or
4 two comments that you just made. There won't be
5 longer lines. If we're moving local races into
6 even-numbered years, let's say a presidential
7 even year, the lines are going to be the lines
8 for that presidential race. Adding a county
9 executive race or adding a local town supervisor
10 race is not going to increase turnout beyond
11 what's already coming out to vote for president
12 or, in all likelihood, to vote for governor.
13 That turnout's going to that turnout.
14 But the point of this bill, and one
15 of the other points that you haven't gotten to
16 yet, of the three, is we want those local races
17 to benefit from that existing higher turnout.
18 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
19 Senator.
20 Will the sponsor yield to another
21 question.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
23 sponsor yield?
24 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7015
1 sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR RHOADS: The second point
3 that you raised was avoiding voter confusion.
4 Can you tell us how it would avoid voter
5 confusion by having more races on the same
6 ballot?
7 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
8 Mr. President. I don't know that I've
9 characterized one of the purposes of this bill as
10 avoiding voter confusion.
11 But I suspect maybe what you're
12 getting at, or what you're referencing I was
13 getting at from whatever you're citing I said, is
14 that one of the benefits of consolidating
15 elections is what I described a little bit
16 earlier tonight, which is you have voters who
17 face this avalanche of elections in any given
18 year. You have a November general election, you
19 have a state and federal primary election, every
20 four years you've got a presidential primary
21 election. You've got your school board and
22 budget elections. You've got in some cases your
23 village elections in the spring. You've got your
24 library board and budget elections, your fire
25 district board and budget elections, your water
7016
1 district board and budget elections.
2 And so yes, to the extent that
3 voters are exhausted and would like to see some
4 consolidation, that is absolutely a benefit of
5 this bill.
6 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
7 yield for another question.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR RHOADS: And so your
14 solution, you believe, is to have federal, state,
15 county, town, fire district, water district,
16 library board, judges all on the same ballot.
17 That's going to -- that's going to aid in less
18 confusion for voters, according to you.
19 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
20 Mr. President, that's not what I said.
21 And this bill does not include the
22 large majority of the offices that you just
23 rattled off.
24 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
25 continue to yield.
7017
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR RHOADS: So now we're back
7 to the earlier question. Where are the savings?
8 If there are still going to be fire
9 district elections, if there's still going to be
10 water commissioner elections, if there's still
11 going to be school board elections, there are
12 going to be library board elections, there's
13 going to be elections for county clerks, there's
14 going to be elections for district attorneys --
15 which are being handled separate and apart from
16 the town and county elections -- where are the
17 savings?
18 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
19 Mr. President, I'll provide the same answer that
20 I provided when you posed the question earlier.
21 In the immediate term, the savings
22 are once every four years in those odd-year
23 cycles when you don't have those countywide races
24 up and on the ballot -- DA, sheriff, county
25 clerk, and the countywide judicial offices. In
7018
1 most places, those offices run at the same time
2 on the same odd year. And so the odd-year cycle
3 once every four years they're not running on, you
4 will see some savings by not having to administer
5 those countywide elections.
6 In the longer term, if and when -- I
7 believe when -- we pass a constitutional
8 amendment, we'll be able to even move those
9 offices to an even-year cycle to the same offices
10 we're moving in this bill, and you will see
11 savings in not one but two of the odd-year
12 cycles, both of the odd-year cycles every four
13 years.
14 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
15 yield to another question.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
17 sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
20 sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR RHOADS: Now, you've
22 mentioned limited circumstances where the
23 district attorney's election and the county
24 clerk's election are compatible. Do you have any
25 idea how many of the counties where that's
7019
1 actually the case?
2 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
3 Mr. President. I believe the very -- I don't
4 have a number in front of me, but the very large
5 majority of counties you do see the two races,
6 two offices that you just mentioned, the DA and
7 the county clerk, yes, do run on the same cycle.
8 That happens in the vast majority of counties in
9 New York State.
10 The only time they would not be on
11 the same cycle is when there is an abrupt vacancy
12 that constitutionally -- which is why we carve
13 them out -- shifts those offices to an even-year
14 cycle. In most counties that has not happened.
15 I will note, through you,
16 Mr. President, that the primary purpose of this
17 bill -- because again, the immediate savings are
18 more modest -- the primary purpose of this bill
19 is to increase voter participation in town and
20 county elections.
21 I prefer -- I think the vast
22 majority of New Yorkers would prefer to see,
23 instead of 20 percent of people choosing who runs
24 our towns and counties, 50, 60, 70 percent of
25 voters choosing our leaders who run our towns and
7020
1 counties.
2 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
3 yield to another question.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
5 sponsor yield?
6 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: the
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR RHOADS: You cited to a --
10 I believe it was a Nevada election, if I'm
11 correct, in the questioning under -- from
12 Patricia -- Senator Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick.
13 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
14 Mr. President, yes, Nevada is currently the only
15 state that requires local elections be an
16 even-year cycle. So I did cite -- I think
17 North Las Vegas was one of the examples that I
18 shared before.
19 SENATOR RHOADS: Okay. In -- will
20 the sponsor yield to another question.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 sponsor yields.
7021
1 SENATOR RHOADS: You told us that
2 there was additional voter turnout. But can you
3 tell us, what was the drop-off from the first
4 race on that ballot to the last race on that
5 ballot?
6 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
7 Mr. President. So just as a reminder, in 2019 in
8 North Las Vegas municipal elections there were
9 4,611 voters who came out. And then in their
10 first even year cycle in 2022, that number more
11 than doubled, to 11,061.
12 And I don't have the exact
13 percentage of drop-off from start to end on the
14 2022 ballot, but I know that it is a marginal
15 drop-off. And whatever small drop-off there was,
16 certainly the final number was far larger than
17 4,661. There would have had to have been a
18 60 percent-plus drop-off to get to what the
19 turnout was in the previous odd cycle. And in no
20 universe do you ever see anything approaching a
21 60 percent drop-off on a ballot from start to
22 finish. It is usually a single-digit percentage
23 point.
24 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
25 yield to another question.
7022
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Would the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR RHOADS: I would submit to
7 the sponsor that you will see a significantly
8 greater drop-off the longer that ballot gets.
9 Would you not agree?
10 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
11 Mr. President. Yes, I think that it's fair to
12 say with every column that's added there is some
13 additional marginal drop-off. We're talking in
14 some cases tenths of a percentage point, not a
15 60 percent drop-off, which would get us back to,
16 in this example, what the turnout was in the
17 odd-year cycle.
18 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
19 yield to another question.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR RHOADS: Again, what you're
7023
1 quoting is specifically with respect to the
2 Las Vegas study, the North Las Vegas study, which
3 admittedly you have no idea what the number is.
4 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
5 Mr. President. I'll again remind my colleagues,
6 the other example that I cited, which was in
7 El Paso, Texas, they went from an 8 percent
8 turnout to a 45 percent turnout, a 460 percent
9 increase.
10 I suspect my colleague does not
11 imagine there would be a 460 percent drop-off
12 from start to end of any ballot.
13 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the
14 sponsor -- well, was that a question?
15 SENATOR SKOUFIS: No, that wasn't a
16 question. That was a suggestion.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: I believe
18 it was of a rhetorical nature.
19 Senator Rhoads, are you asking
20 Senator Skoufis to yield?
21 SENATOR RHOADS: Yes, I am.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
23 sponsor yield?
24 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes, I'll yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7024
1 sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR RHOADS: But you don't know
3 what the statistic actually is, correct?
4 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
5 Mr. President, I don't have the exact number, no.
6 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
7 continue to yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR RHOADS: If elections for
14 the town and the county will now be held in the
15 same years as congressional, State Senate and
16 State Assembly elections, how will campaigns for
17 county executive or town supervisors or for other
18 offices be able to get TV time?
19 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
20 Mr. President, the same way they get them in
21 their current elections.
22 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
23 continue to yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
25 sponsor yield?
7025
1 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR RHOADS: If they're
5 competing with presidential campaigns, with
6 gubernatorial campaigns, with other campaigns for
7 statewide offices, with campaigns for
8 State Senate and State Assembly, when do you
9 think there's going to be time for a county
10 executive or another local office to buy TV time?
11 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
12 Mr. President -- through you, Mr. President, I
13 don't quite understand the question. I think
14 you're suggesting that there is no -- there are
15 no TV advertisement slots available if we move
16 these races into even-year cycles. I don't
17 believe that's even remotely correct.
18 I will note that one of the
19 beautiful things about local races is that local
20 candidates are out knocking on doors more than,
21 say, a gubernatorial candidate, for example. And
22 that remains -- and I think whether it's an
23 odd-year cycle or an even-year cycle, that will
24 remain the preferred and in some cases the
25 exclusive, because not too many county
7026
1 legislators are on TV running for reelection, the
2 exclusive way that they're going out and reaching
3 voters.
4 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
5 yield.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
7 sponsor yield for a question?
8 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR RHOADS: Have you had a
12 county executive on television in your county, in
13 Orange?
14 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
15 Mr. President, yes. We're a county of about
16 400,000. We're one of the larger counties.
17 SENATOR RHOADS: Sure.
18 Will the sponsor continue to yield.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
20 sponsor yield?
21 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR RHOADS: If elections for
25 sheriff, for county clerk and for district
7027
1 attorney will continue to be on the odd-year
2 elections, will that not decrease voter turnout
3 in those elections?
4 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
5 Mr. President, this exact question was raised
6 before, but I'm happy to repeat the answer.
7 And that is that voter turnout in
8 these odd-year cycles is already so abysmally low
9 it can't really drop any further in reality. To
10 the extent that there is any drop because you're
11 moving a county executive race to an even-year
12 cycle, the drop I believe would be marginal.
13 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
14 continue to yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR RHOADS: While you believe
21 that the voter drop-off may be marginal in terms
22 of turnout, do you not agree that if you have a
23 single race, it's entirely possible that you're
24 going to get significantly fewer voters coming
25 out to vote for one candidate?
7028
1 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
2 Mr. President. While we make this shift to
3 moving all races onto an even-year cycle, there
4 will be very, very few instances in which there
5 is only one race on the ballot. Because as I
6 mentioned before, most of these countywide
7 positions that are carved out of this bill --
8 county clerk, DA, sheriff, some judicial
9 positions -- they are aligned on the same cycle.
10 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
11 continue to yield.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
13 sponsor yield?
14 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR RHOADS: You had indicated
18 that it's -- several times that it was your
19 intention -- and actually, I'll withdraw that
20 question and ask a different one.
21 Who asked you to sponsor this bill?
22 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
23 Mr. President. There was no one person who
24 prompted me to sponsor this bill.
25 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
7029
1 continue to yield?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
3 sponsor yield.
4 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR RHOADS: What motivated you
8 to sponsor the bill?
9 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
10 Mr. President, this was -- I'm going to sound
11 like a broken record. A lot of these questions
12 are on repeat. This was the very first question
13 that was asked.
14 The motivation here is that I
15 believe, as policymakers, one of our
16 responsibilities is to create an environment, to
17 foster an environment that promotes greater voter
18 participation.
19 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
20 continue to yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 sponsor yields.
7030
1 SENATOR RHOADS: Are you concerned
2 about increasing voter participation in cities as
3 well?
4 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
5 Mr. President, yes.
6 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
7 continue to yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR RHOADS: Was there anything
14 that prevented you from introducing your
15 constitutional amendment that you say you're
16 going to introduce next year right now?
17 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
18 Mr. President. We all are at liberty to
19 introduce bills whenever we want, as legislators.
20 So to answer your question, there's nothing that
21 prevented me from introducing or anyone in this
22 chamber from introducing a constitutional
23 amendment.
24 But what I can tell you is that you
25 should anticipate a constitutional amendment
7031
1 being introduced and hopefully taken up next
2 year. And again, it is immaterial whether it's
3 taken up this year or next year, because it will
4 have to pass again in 2025.
5 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
6 continue to yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
8 sponsor yield?
9 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR RHOADS: I would submit to
13 you respectfully, Senator Skoufis, that it is not
14 immaterial, because you are changing the
15 elections in towns and counties without
16 addressing the same problem that you're
17 suggesting that we have in cities with respect to
18 drop-off.
19 And I would like to know why you
20 aren't doing them at the same time and why you're
21 treating towns and counties differently than
22 cities.
23 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
24 Mr. President, we're not doing it at the same
25 time because we can't do it at the same time.
7032
1 This is a piece of legislation that can be
2 enacted in one session. A constitutional
3 amendment has to be passed, as you know, through
4 two successive legislatures and then passed via
5 referendum statewide.
6 And so we are on track to do that.
7 Whether we pass it this year, the constitutional
8 amendment, whether we pass it this year or next
9 year, that track is the same regardless.
10 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
11 yield to another question.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
13 sponsor yield?
14 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR RHOADS: If you're going to
18 the same place anyway, why didn't you just do
19 them at the same time? Why didn't you introduce
20 your constitutional amendment this year?
21 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
22 Mr. President. I would characterize this as a
23 largely academic debate. I've told you what you
24 ought to expect this session, this two-year
25 session, next year. There will be a
7033
1 constitutional amendment next year.
2 SENATOR RHOADS: On the bill.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
4 Rhoads on the bill.
5 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
6 Mr. President. Thank you, Senator Skoufis. And
7 I appreciate you accommodating these questions.
8 Senator Skoufis pointed to three
9 things. Saving money? This doesn't do it.
10 Voter confusion? In my opinion, this creates
11 even more confusion among voters because now you
12 will have longer ballots, it will be more
13 difficult for local candidates to get their
14 messages out.
15 And this will do nothing, in my
16 opinion, to improve overall turnout because you
17 will actually have greater drop-off at the ends
18 of ballots, so you will probably have an
19 equivalent number of voters eventually voting in
20 those local elections.
21 I will tell you what my theory is,
22 however. There is absolutely no reason why, if
23 this was the purpose of this bill, that we
24 couldn't have a constitutional amendment now that
25 addresses this problem that we're saying that we
7034
1 have in towns and counties, and at the same time
2 addressing it in cities.
3 I will tell you that the drop-off in
4 2020 in the presidential election, to 2021 in the
5 mayoral election, was 61 percent turnout in the
6 presidential and 23 percent in the mayoral.
7 Greater than 50 percent drop-off in turnout, yet
8 we are not addressing that problem. Instead, we
9 are telling local towns and telling local
10 counties from Albany how they should be running
11 their elections.
12 Why? When voters have been
13 rejecting ballot initiatives that have been put
14 out by this Legislature on a regular basis, I
15 suspect that may be the reason why. Instead,
16 this Legislature is imposing it on our localities
17 without asking. We could have introduced a
18 constitutional amendment to address this issue,
19 but the problem is the constitutional amendment
20 would have had to have gone to the voters.
21 And let's see what the difference
22 is. This bill does not apply to the City of
23 New York, which is majority Democratic. It
24 doesn't apply to the City of Buffalo, which has a
25 Democratic mayor. It doesn't apply to the City
7035
1 of Rochester, it doesn't apply to the City of
2 Albany, the City of Yonkers -- all of which have
3 Democratic mayors and Democratic boards. What
4 this does apply to is towns and counties where
5 you have Republican county executives, Republican
6 town supervisors. I suspect that's what the
7 difference is actually about.
8 Even Orange County. A Republican
9 county executive, right? It applies to them.
10 But none of what you're doing applies to the
11 cities, which have the same if not worse issues
12 with respect to voter turnout. I believe that's
13 what the issue -- I believe that's what the issue
14 is.
15 So now you have other issues that
16 will happen --
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
18 Skoufis, why do you rise?
19 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Will you yield
20 for a question?
21 SENATOR RHOADS: Yes, absolutely.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
23 Rhoads, do you yield?
24 Senator Rhoads yields.
25 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Senator Rhoads,
7036
1 who is the county executive in Westchester, and
2 what's his party affiliation? And will this bill
3 apply to him?
4 SENATOR RHOADS: The bill will
5 certainly apply to him. It will apply just the
6 same.
7 SENATOR SKOUFIS: His name is
8 George Latimer. He's a Democrat.
9 Who's -- what party --
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
11 Skoufis, are you asking --
12 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Will you yield?
13 I'm not used to going this way. Will you yield?
14 (Laughter.)
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
16 Rhoads, will you yield?
17 SENATOR RHOADS: I will yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
19 Rhoads yields.
20 SENATOR SKOUFIS: What party
21 affiliation is the county executive in
22 Albany County?
23 SENATOR RHOADS: A Democrat.
24 SENATOR SKOUFIS: He's a Democrat.
25 I couldn't help but notice that you
7037
1 are portraying this bill as somehow only applying
2 to Republican jurisdictions. This applies to all
3 towns and counties regardless of whether there's
4 a Democrat or Republican leading that town or
5 county.
6 And I also take exception with your
7 suggestion -- and quite frankly I think this is
8 misdirection, and purposeful. You're going,
9 Well, it doesn't apply to Buffalo, it doesn't
10 apply to New York City. It can't apply to
11 Buffalo or New York City. We are
12 constitutionally prohibited from capturing any
13 city with this bill.
14 And so I really just needed to
15 interrupt, and I appreciate you yielding, because
16 I am not going to accept purposeful misdirection.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:
18 Gentlemen, the hour is late. Let us continue on
19 a peaceful path towards the end of session.
20 Senator Rhoads, continue, please.
21 SENATOR RHOADS: Senator Skoufis,
22 to answer your question, you had the ability to
23 file a constitutional amendment which would have
24 addressed the issue both in cities as well as the
25 issues both in towns and counties. You chose not
7038
1 to do that. You chose to take a path which would
2 avoid submitting this to the voters so that their
3 voices could be heard on what goes on in their
4 own localities. You chose to do that. That's
5 the point that I'm attempting to make.
6 And I will suggest to you, yes,
7 there is a very specific reason with respect to
8 Nassau and Suffolk counties why I think this bill
9 was actually introduced, a very specific reason.
10 And I think it has everything to do with respect
11 to party, with all due respect.
12 The bottom line is this bill is
13 taking away the ability for local individuals,
14 for our residents to have a voice in their local
15 governments and how they are structured and how
16 they are run. If the Senator wanted to submit a
17 constitutional amendment, he could have; we
18 don't.
19 And so now, again, Albany will be
20 dictating to towns and counties how they should
21 be living their lives, how they should be
22 choosing their elected officials, and the end
23 result will be that our voices will be drowned
24 out, that local county executives, local town
25 supervisors, local town board members, local
7039
1 county legislators will have their message
2 drowned out in presidential, gubernatorial and
3 statewide races where they will struggle to be
4 able to be heard.
5 So for that reason, I will be voting
6 no, and I would encourage my colleagues to do so
7 as well.
8 Thank you, Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
10 you, Senator Rhoads.
11 Prior to the next speaker, again,
12 let -- you know, the hour is late. We will --
13 passions are great. But again, let us -- let's
14 be able to continue on a peaceful path. I can
15 see no better end to the session.
16 Senator Walczyk, why do you rise?
17 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
18 Mr. President, I rise because I ran into one of
19 my esteemed colleagues from the Bronx, and he
20 thought that I could contribute to this debate.
21 I would like to start by going on
22 the bill.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
24 Walczyk on the bill.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you.
7040
1 This is from the New York State
2 Association of Clerks of County Legislative
3 Boards. It says, "Dear Majority Leader
4 Stewart-Cousins and Speaker Heastie:
5 "On behalf of the officers and
6 executive committee of the New York State
7 Association of Clerks of County Legislative
8 Boards, I'm writing to express our concerns with
9 the provisions contained in Senate Bill" -- well,
10 this one.
11 "These bills would require that
12 certain local elections held outside of New York
13 City be in an even-numbered year.
14 "While the bills' sponsors state
15 justification for increasing voter participation
16 and reducing voter confusion in local elections
17 by requiring certain elections to be held in even
18 years is laudable, we believe this proposal falls
19 short of those goals, as constitutional offices
20 such as sheriff, county clerk, district attorney
21 and elected members of the judiciary may still be
22 held in uneven years," as was pointed out in the
23 debate today.
24 "Additionally, city and village
25 elections are often held in uneven years or at
7041
1 different times of the year altogether.
2 currently there is no state mandate about which
3 years elections for county boards must be held,
4 and each county sets elections for those offices
5 in line with the needs of their community.
6 "In some cases those elections are
7 held in uneven years, which serves to allow the
8 elections for those offices to receive greater
9 attention by voters and not be lost in the more
10 prominent elections for statewide or federal
11 offices.
12 "Moreover, a one-size-fits-all
13 approach for all counties would usurp other
14 provisions that some counties and voters have
15 enacted. Some examples of those provisions
16 include three-year term of office; staggered
17 terms of office; term limits on county
18 legislators.
19 "In conclusion, on behalf of the
20 officers and executive committee of the New York
21 State Association of Clerks of County Legislative
22 Boards, I urge you to not act on this Senate bill
23 prior to the end of the legislation session,
24 which is quickly approaching. Instead, we
25 respectfully request that you engage in
7042
1 discussions with the New York State Association
2 of Counties to come up with an alternative
3 proposal about how we can work together to
4 improve voter turnout passing new mandates on
5 county government which ignore the will of voters
6 and their local representatives.
7 "As always, we and the New York
8 State Association of Counties stand ready to
9 discuss this matter further.
10 "Respectfully, Aaron Michael
11 Martin," who is president of the New York State
12 Association of Clerks of County Legislative
13 Boards. And if his name sounds familiar to you,
14 he used to be a legislative director here in the
15 New York State Senate.
16 Mr. President, would the sponsor
17 yield for some questions.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Before,
19 Senator Skoufis, you yield, I would like to note
20 for the record that Senator Walczyk has asked us
21 to recognize his sartorial splendor, that it is
22 St. Lawrence tartan. Is that not correct,
23 Senator Walczyk?
24 (Laughter.)
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: Mr. President,
7043
1 I'll be proud to speak about my jacket very
2 briefly.
3 (Laughter.)
4 SENATOR WALCZYK: This is more than
5 just a snappy end-of-session coat to me. This is
6 the St. Lawrence tartan. There are two tartans
7 that have been designed in the United States of
8 American that are official Scottish tartans,
9 woven in Scotland. And I bought a bolt of this
10 and had it made by a local suit maker from my
11 district who has bespoke and hand-cut this suit.
12 It is representative of my district,
13 of the northern portion, which I call the
14 front yard of America. The St. Lawrence tartan
15 has three primary colors that you can see, the
16 blue representing the mighty St. Lawrence River,
17 where 20 percent of the world's freshwater
18 passes; the red representing the sunset over the
19 Thousand Islands; and the green representing the
20 hardy cedar trees that line the St. Lawrence
21 River Valley.
22 And with that brief pause in the --
23 (Applause.)
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: Well, thank you.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
7044
1 you, Senator Walczyk.
2 Senator Skoufis, do you yield for a
3 question?
4 SENATOR SKOUFIS: I would love to,
5 after that.
6 (Laughter.)
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: Well, now that
10 we're all in good spirits, through you,
11 Mr. President, is this going to undermine local
12 governments?
13 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
14 Mr. President, no.
15 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
16 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
17 yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
19 sponsor yield?
20 The sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR WALCZYK: What do you
22 imagine the messaging for campaigns of local
23 governments will -- will change if they're lined
24 up in federal election years?
25 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
7045
1 Mr. President, I imagine the messaging will not
2 change much.
3 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
4 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
5 yield.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
7 sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR WALCZYK: Do you think if
12 we're lining up local locations on only federal
13 election cycles, candidates that are running for
14 local office will more frequently be asked about
15 their support for certain congressional or
16 United States Senate candidates or presidential
17 candidates than they would if they were running
18 in an off-year and even-year election?
19 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
20 Mr. President, I don't imagine so.
21 SENATOR WALCZYK: Okay. Through
22 you, Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
23 yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
25 sponsor yield?
7046
1 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR WALCZYK: We took up a
5 bill -- and it's difficult at the end of session
6 to remember on which day, but you proposed it,
7 and it had to do with consolidation of local
8 governments providing for more tools at the state
9 level to consolidate municipalities.
10 And I think in doing so you were
11 looking to gain efficiency in local governments,
12 maybe offer them the opportunity to consolidate,
13 to have some more efficiency. But I would say
14 that they also lose autonomy for some voters if
15 you, say, merge two towns or merge a town and a
16 village. Some autonomy is lost there.
17 What happens when you merge local
18 elections and federal elections?
19 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
20 Mr. President, we're not merging federal and
21 local elections, we're just aligning them to the
22 same schedule.
23 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
24 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
25 yield.
7047
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Would the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR WALCZYK: Maybe it's a
7 nuance over a merger versus an alignment. I'll
8 use alignment, then. That's -- that's fine by
9 me.
10 What autonomy is lost for a local
11 government when local elections are aligned with
12 federal elections?
13 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
14 Mr. President, there is no autonomy that's lost.
15 In fact, I'll reference the Town of Wilna, which
16 I'm sure you're familiar with -- it's in your
17 Senate district, Senator Walczyk.
18 SENATOR WALCZYK: (Inaudible.)
19 SENATOR SKOUFIS: It's I suppose
20 right next to Fort Drum. In 2020 you had a local
21 race on an even-year cycle. You had a town
22 justice position that was up that year. And if
23 my colleague will yield, perhaps he can answer
24 what he thinks the impact on local autonomy was
25 for that town judge race by being held on an
7048
1 even-year cycle. I would suggest it's probably
2 nothing.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
4 Walczyk, would you yield for a question? Would
5 you yield -- would you like to answer the
6 question that Senator Skoufis has posited?
7 SENATOR WALCZYK: Yeah, I will
8 yield.
9 I haven't really done a deep dive
10 into the 2020 town justice for Wilna race. Maybe
11 if my colleague could enlighten us. Could you
12 compare that to a town justice race? If my
13 colleague would yield back.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
15 Skoufis, would you yield?
16 SENATOR SKOUFIS: I will yield.
17 I would suggest that the only
18 material difference between that particular town
19 justice election and other local elections in the
20 Town of Wilna and any other county or town
21 election is that in 2020, 60 percent of the
22 voters in the Town of Wilna cast a ballot for
23 town justice.
24 In 2021, the next year, there were a
25 number of local races in the Town of Wilna that
7049
1 saw 21 percent voter turnout, three times as many
2 as your constituents in the Town of Wilna voted
3 for town judge because it was held in an even
4 year.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
6 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
7 yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 sponsor will yield.
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: So the question
14 was about autonomy. Do you know anything about
15 the town justice that ran in 2020 in the
16 presidential year and how many times they were
17 asked who they were supporting for president?
18 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
19 Mr. President, no. But I suspect you can
20 probably get an answer because you know him or
21 her, and I don't.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
23 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
24 yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
7050
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: Do you know
6 anything about the town justice race in 2021 and
7 how many times they were -- that justice was
8 asked at the door or when they were out in public
9 asking people to vote for them, who they voted
10 for in the 2020 presidential election or who they
11 might consider in the 2024 presidential election?
12 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
13 Mr. President. First of all, there was to my
14 knowledge no town judge election in 2021. There
15 was a town tax collector and a highway
16 superintendent election in 2021.
17 And as far as I know, there is no
18 data that I can refer to in terms of how many
19 times a candidate is asked for their presidential
20 preference.
21 SENATOR WALCZYK: Well, I
22 appreciate -- through you, Mr. President, will
23 the sponsor continue to yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
25 sponsor yield?
7051
1 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR WALCZYK: I appreciate, by
5 your own admission, that it's an
6 apples-to-oranges comparison anyways. They
7 obviously didn't have the elections before the
8 Senate district even covered the Town of Wilna or
9 I represented it. Didn't have those numbers
10 right in front of me, but I'm glad that you
11 pointed out that you're comparing a tax collector
12 race to a town justice race. I appreciate that.
13 So you carried this bill since 2021,
14 is that correct?
15 SENATOR SKOUFIS: That sounds
16 correct.
17 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
18 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
19 yield?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: And did I hear
7052
1 earlier in the debate that you inherited this
2 from another member?
3 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
4 Mr. President, this was previously carried by
5 Senator Carlucci, yes.
6 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
7 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
8 yield.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR WALCZYK: So in the last
15 legislative session this was Senate Bill 6197D by
16 the end of the legislative session. A D print
17 meaning that you amended that bill four times in
18 the last legislative session, do I understand
19 that correctly?
20 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
21 Mr. President, that is what that means, yes.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
23 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
24 yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
7053
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: And in this
6 legislative session, this is a B print, which
7 means you've amended the bill an additional two
8 times within this legislative session, do I
9 understand that correctly?
10 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
11 Mr. President, that is what that means, yes.
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
13 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
14 yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR WALCZYK: That seems like a
21 lot of work. Why so much effort?
22 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
23 Mr. President, it was a lot of work. I thank you
24 for acknowledging that. And we put in so much
25 effort because we believe this is an important
7054
1 reform.
2 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
3 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
4 yield.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
6 sponsor yield?
7 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR WALCZYK: I sit as the
11 ranker on the Elections Committee, but I don't
12 remember this bill ever being spoken about in the
13 Elections Committee. Did it go through the
14 Elections Committee when you sponsored it during
15 the last session?
16 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
17 Mr. President, last year the bill didn't advance
18 through committee, that's correct.
19 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
20 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
21 yield.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
23 sponsor yield?
24 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7055
1 sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR WALCZYK: And did the --
3 did that advance -- did I just miss that agenda
4 that day? It didn't advance this year through
5 the Elections Committee either, did it?
6 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
7 Mr. President. My colleague knows full well how
8 this chamber operates. And towards the end of
9 session bills can be discharged from committees
10 to Rules, which is I believe what happened here.
11 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
12 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
13 yield.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
15 sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR WALCZYK: Do you know if
20 the bill passed through the Assembly Elections
21 Committee? Did they talk about it in the
22 committee in the other house, or was it also
23 discharged directly to the floor over there?
24 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
25 Mr. President. The bill was not discharged to
7056
1 the floor in the Assembly. I believe the bill
2 was discharged to Rules or another committee in
3 the Assembly.
4 And again, this is a process that my
5 colleague is familiar with. He has a number of
6 local government bills that were discharged out
7 of Local Government and not passed through
8 Local Government just this session.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
10 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
11 yield.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
13 sponsor yield?
14 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR WALCZYK: I appreciate you
18 talking about my bill. When I put one of those
19 local bills in, what I do is I also put in a
20 request-out slip so that that committee knows
21 that I would like it to move through that
22 committee.
23 Did you put a request-out slip with
24 the Elections Committee on this bill this
25 session?
7057
1 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
2 Mr. President, that's not required. I didn't put
3 in a slip. But I certainly put in a request.
4 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
5 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
6 yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
8 sponsor yield?
9 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: In three years of
13 work on this bill which will impact local
14 elections, what support or counsel did you
15 receive from local governments?
16 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
17 Mr. President. One of the reasons why we got to
18 a D print last year is because we were in
19 significant consultation with NYCOM and the
20 Association of Counties. And while it's true
21 they are not exactly in love with this bill, they
22 provided significant input that was incorporated
23 into versions of this bill.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
25 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
7058
1 yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
3 sponsor yield?
4 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR WALCZYK: So not receiving
8 support from the Association of Counties or the
9 Conference of Mayors.
10 Did you receive support from the
11 Town Highway Superintendents?
12 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
13 Mr. President, I'm not aware of any position
14 they've taken.
15 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
16 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
17 yield.
18 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
20 sponsor yield?
21 The sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: What about the
23 Association of Towns?
24 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
25 Mr. President, I do not believe they've issued a
7059
1 memo of support, if that's what you're getting
2 at.
3 Some groups that have issued support
4 include most of the good government groups,
5 because this is a good government bill. Common
6 Cause, Citizen Union in New York City -- which,
7 again, is engaged in a constitutional amendment
8 campaign to shift city elections to even years.
9 Most of the good government groups
10 that engage in our work here in Albany not just
11 support, strongly support this measure. And it's
12 because it's the single reform, by far and away
13 the one single reform that could dramatically --
14 not a little, not some, dramatically increase
15 turnout in these currently odd-year elections.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
17 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
18 yield.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
20 sponsor yield?
21 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: What about the
25 county executives?
7060
1 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
2 Mr. President, the county executives -- is there
3 an association of county executives? I'm not
4 even sure what you're referring to.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
6 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
7 yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: Do you have any
14 support from any county executives that you could
15 voice to the chamber?
16 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
17 Mr. President. We reached out to a host of
18 elected officials last year as part of outreach.
19 We incorporated a lot of feedback based on input
20 from elected officials from the associations I
21 mentioned before.
22 And so this suggestion that we're
23 doing this in a vacuum, which I think is what
24 you're suggesting, is off base.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
7061
1 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
2 yield?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
4 sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR WALCZYK: Did you receive
9 support or feedback from the Elections
10 Commissioners Association?
11 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
12 Mr. President, we did have significant
13 consultation with many election commissioners at
14 the county as well as the state level, State BOE,
15 and much of their feedback was incorporated into
16 this final version.
17 I'm curious to note that in this
18 long list of associations and elected officials
19 that you're rattling off, you've left out the
20 most important group, voters.
21 Voters are the ones who are going to
22 benefit from this bill. Voters are going to be
23 the ones who are casting ballots that will
24 determine who runs their counties and towns --
25 not at 20 percent levels or 30 percent levels,
7062
1 but in some cases 60, 70 percent turnout levels.
2 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
3 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
4 yield.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
6 sponsor yield?
7 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR WALCZYK: What about
11 feedback from the Association of Clerks of
12 Legislative Boards?
13 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
14 Mr. President, I think that's the letter you read
15 into the record before we engaged in some debate.
16 And they raised very generic issues that we've
17 addressed in this debate that I've been aware of
18 since almost day one since I introduced the bill.
19 There's nothing new in that correspondence that
20 would have informed this bill language.
21 Again, much technical feedback in
22 particular was provided by many of the
23 associations that you listed before.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
25 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
7063
1 yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
3 sponsor yield?
4 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR WALCZYK: I'm so encouraged
8 to hear that voters are really the top concern
9 and that was the group that I was leaving out.
10 It was just a little bit further down on my list,
11 but certainly not by priority at all.
12 How many public hearings did you
13 have on this bill that you're proposing to change
14 our -- the years that our local governments are
15 going to have their elections on?
16 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
17 Mr. President, I think we've probably taken up
18 and passed upwards of a thousand bills this
19 session. And as you know, as well as all of us
20 know, the vast majority of those bills that are
21 taken up and passed do not have public hearings.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
23 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
24 yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
7064
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: The vast majority
6 of the bills that we take up in this chamber --
7 and not to paint them with a broad brush, because
8 I think you have to go through each one; that's
9 why we do that -- but don't often have a sponsor
10 that stands up and that accuses the questioner of
11 not caring about voters.
12 I asked how many public hearings,
13 how many times did you reach out to the voters
14 that you really wanted to be on this list -- how
15 many times did you reach out to the voters and
16 have public hearings to seek their feedback
17 before you proposed a bill in the New York State
18 Senate that would change what year our local
19 elections are had on?
20 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
21 Mr. President, I certainly appreciate the
22 attempts at the straw man arguments, but let's be
23 clear. We've all participated in public hearings
24 here in Albany. The folks who would show up to a
25 public hearing in this kind of case are those
7065
1 associations that you listed off before whose
2 feedback we sought and incorporated in the bill.
3 Your suggestion that, you know, Joe
4 and Jane off the street of, you know, the town of
5 Wilna are going to show up to a public hearing is
6 just completely off base.
7 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
8 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
9 yield.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
11 sponsor yield?
12 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR WALCZYK: So this bill
16 didn't go through either Elections Committee and
17 wasn't vetted in either session that it's -- any
18 of the three legislative sessions that it's been
19 carried in, either by your predecessor or by you,
20 by the members that sit on the
21 Elections Committee in either the Senate or in
22 the Assembly. But it is moving to the floor now.
23 But I just want to understand that
24 not only has it not gone through the
25 Elections Committee, which are the
7066
1 representatives that are, you know, we're kind of
2 charged with looking over bills in that area of
3 law and having a discussion across the table
4 about some of the nuances here. So the D print
5 that you've got last session and the B print that
6 you've got this session was kind of independent
7 of that process.
8 And I'm understanding that there
9 were also no public hearings to reach out to --
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
11 Walczyk, are you on the bill or asking questions?
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: I've got a
13 question, Mr. President.
14 There were also no public hearings.
15 Was there any kind of task force put together to
16 seek feedback from voters in the State of
17 New York?
18 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
19 Mr. President. You're -- you've said this a
20 number of times, with all respect, that this bill
21 hasn't been vetted, it hasn't been looked at by
22 the Election Committee members. And you know as
23 well as I do that that is just simply not true.
24 Again, this bill has been around for
25 over 10 years. There've been a lot of eyes on
7067
1 this bill. There's been plenty of time for
2 anyone who wants to vet it to vet it.
3 And in fact I know that you've
4 looked at this prior to today, because several
5 months ago you sent me a rather unusual letter
6 requesting that I strike the enacting clause to
7 this bill.
8 And so, again, the implication that
9 this is the first time you, as the ranking member
10 of Elections, is taking a look at this bill, is
11 considering this bill, you know, we worked around
12 your mindfulness -- you've known about this bill,
13 you've looked at this bill, you've studied this
14 bill for several months at a minimum.
15 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
16 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to
17 yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
19 sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR WALCZYK: I at no point
24 meant to represent like tonight was the first
25 time I was ever looking at this legislation. I
7068
1 knew that this was a bad idea for long time.
2 But I do want to pivot off of that
3 and close with a few questions, because I think
4 your -- your intent here, turnout is the goal,
5 right? Your intent here is to increase turnout
6 in the State of New York. Is that right? In
7 elections, whether they be local or federal, you
8 want to see more people turning out and
9 participating in democracy. Do I understand that
10 correctly?
11 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
13 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
14 yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR WALCZYK: Would you say
21 that voters should, as a personal recommendation,
22 should turn out every time that there's an
23 election even if it seems like it's just down to
24 a tax collector or a local justice or -- all the
25 way up to the president of the United States, and
7069
1 even if it's a very difficult choice for them to
2 make? Wouldn't that be even more important for
3 them to turn out?
4 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
5 Mr. President, I'm not sure exactly what your
6 question is.
7 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
8 Mr. President, to clarify.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
10 Walczyk to clarify.
11 SENATOR WALCZYK: Would you
12 encourage voters to turn out to the polls even if
13 they're facing a difficult decision?
14 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
15 Mr. President, I suppose I would always encourage
16 voters to turn out to the polls.
17 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
18 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
19 yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: Even if it's a
7070
1 difficult decision like a pay raise for
2 Andrew Cuomo?
3 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
4 Mr. President, voters did not vote on
5 Andrew Cuomo's pay raise. That wasn't on any
6 ballot.
7 SENATOR WALCZYK: Mr. President, on
8 the bill.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
10 Walczyk on the bill.
11 SENATOR WALCZYK: The sponsor says
12 that the goal is to increase turnout. This bill
13 puts local elections outside of New York City on
14 a federal election cycle. His goal is not just
15 to increase turnout, as he says. His goal is to
16 game elections towards Democrat voter turnout.
17 I'm actually not that surprised.
18 And I have known about this bill for a while, and
19 it's why I asked the sponsor to strike the
20 enacting clause, because I believe that this is a
21 pretty shameless political scheme designed by
22 people who are considering one party over
23 another, not considering elections and government
24 by the people, of the people, for the people.
25 Their goal is to get one party to
7071
1 win overwhelmingly -- and in this case, with this
2 bill, overwhelmingly in local elections where
3 they currently struggle. The goal is
4 self-serving, but also it's dangerous. And more
5 dangerous than just tipping the scales for one
6 political party, because I think that this bill
7 tugs at the layers of our representative
8 democracy, of our local representation in favor
9 of federalism.
10 You know, I served in local
11 government and I've remained good friends with
12 someone who would probably surprise a lot of you
13 folks across the aisle, a big fan of
14 Bernie Sanders. And if we ever ran higher up the
15 ticket, we probably would be opponents. But when
16 it came to running on local government issues, we
17 agreed on things like whether the local pool
18 should get fixed and, you know, where some money
19 for infrastructure could go. Because in local
20 governments those issues supercede federal
21 politics.
22 One-party greed seems to know no end
23 in this state, and that's why I'm concerned.
24 They're angry that people continue to vote for
25 Republicans locally, and some of those electeds
7072
1 run for seats in the State Senate and in the
2 State Assembly. I think we have to worry about
3 training voters to hit the easy button by this
4 way, by saying: Focus only on the federal issues
5 and then just line it down the rest of the
6 ballot, and that's your job as an informed
7 citizen.
8 I think about it the other way
9 around. And while encouraging voters to turn out
10 is a very laudable goal, and I think one that can
11 be approached in a lot of ways not like this,
12 considering that the citizen is the highest
13 office in the land, it's more important for the
14 citizen to absolutely understand the layers of
15 government and have that as full weight when
16 they're going into the local election year in an
17 off-year.
18 This country is run by people who
19 show up -- and not just show up once every two
20 years, not just show up once every four years.
21 It's run by citizens who take interest in their
22 government, who want to learn their local
23 government issues, their state government issues,
24 their federal government issues, and they show up
25 to the polling places informed.
7073
1 And so yes, I asked the sponsor to
2 strike the enacting clause, because that's a
3 system that I enjoy. It's an American
4 fundamental republic system that I'm frustrated
5 at some of the changes.
6 And listen, you want to win more
7 seats, I can understand that. It seems greedy
8 when you've got a supermajority. But if you'd
9 like to win more seats, this is what I would
10 suggest to my colleagues across the aisle. Knock
11 on more doors, go to more public events, shake
12 more hands, answer more interviews, pick up the
13 phone in your office and respond to your
14 constituents, pass better policies out of these
15 chambers that people actually want you to, and
16 work harder for the people that you represent.
17 That's how you win more seats. You
18 want people to turn out? Stop passing laws that
19 undermine citizens' very important calling to
20 each layer of government in the State of
21 New York. These are the fundamental principles
22 of our republic.
23 Thank you, Mr. President.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
25 you, Senator Walczyk.
7074
1 Are there any other Senators wishing
2 to be heard?
3 Senator Borrello.
4 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
5 it's been a few minutes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
7 Borrello, why do you rise?
8 SENATOR BORRELLO: May I speak on
9 the bill.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
11 Borrello on the bill.
12 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you.
13 You know, oftentimes in Albany we
14 have solutions in search of a problem. And
15 that's what this really is. But usually there is
16 at least some kind of a special interest group.
17 I mean, we've got advocates in these halls all
18 the time, but I have yet to hear one coming out
19 with a chant that "We are here for even years.
20 We are here for even years."
21 Nobody, and I mean nobody, wants to
22 have these elections moved to even years. You
23 know who doesn't want them to move to even years?
24 The people that execute these elections for us.
25 The first person I heard from about this bill was
7075
1 the Democrat election commissioner in my county
2 that I live in, who said "Don't do this. This is
3 going to be a problem."
4 You know who else doesn't want this?
5 The people that are supposed to run for those
6 town and village elections. It's hard enough to
7 get people to run for those jobs, those thankless
8 jobs, those phone calls that you get in the
9 middle of the night because "my neighbor's dog
10 crapped on my lawn." That's the job. Those are
11 the people that don't want you to do this,
12 because they don't want to get overshadowed by
13 presidential politics and state politics.
14 So who wants this bill? I mean,
15 other than Senator Skoufis, I'm not sure.
16 (Laughter.)
17 SENATOR BORRELLO: But the problem
18 is, we shouldn't do this. We shouldn't do this.
19 The first time that I got elected
20 was for the county legislature. I ran in a town
21 that was more Democrats than Republicans, and I
22 beat an incumbent Democrat because I was working
23 harder than he was to get to do the job.
24 Same thing when I ran for county
25 executive. I ran in a 50/50 county, and I won
7076
1 with 64 percent of the vote.
2 And I can point to many Democrats in
3 my district that are in local elections that are
4 Democrats that are winning in Republican
5 districts, because those are the people closest
6 to the people. Those are the elected officials
7 that are closest to the people they represent.
8 And they deserve the opportunity to be heard, not
9 to be drowned out and overshadowed by the
10 politics, the toxic politics of state and federal
11 elections.
12 So I am yet to hear who actually
13 wanted this. I heard lots of great reasons why,
14 but who really wants this? And if this is a
15 government that's supposed to be for the people,
16 then we should be doing what the people want, not
17 what we think they need. That's the last thing
18 that they need.
19 So I'll be voting no. Thank you.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Are there
21 any other Senators wishing to be heard?
22 Senator Stec, I might remind you
23 that there are 14 minutes left of the time.
24 SENATOR STEC: Will the sponsor
25 yield for a question.
7077
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
2 sponsor yield for a question?
3 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Of course.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR STEC: Good evening. I
7 know the hour is late.
8 What does your bill do for county
9 legislatures that are three-year terms?
10 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Did you say
11 three-year terms?
12 SENATOR STEC: Mm-hmm.
13 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
14 Mr. President. If the -- if there is an office
15 currently with a three-year term, they are carved
16 out of this bill because, for obvious
17 mathematical reasons, there's no way to get them
18 onto an even-year cycle permanently.
19 SENATOR STEC: So if the sponsor
20 would continue to yield for a follow-up to that
21 one question.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
23 sponsor yield for a question?
24 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: the
7078
1 sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR STEC: You mentioned at the
3 beginning of this debate a while ago that you had
4 a lot of carve-outs for constitutional reasons.
5 Would your intent be or would your desire be to
6 somehow rectify that so that these three-year
7 offices get synchronized to a federalized
8 election schedule?
9 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
10 Mr. President. I really don't, honestly, have
11 intentions vis-a-vis that exact issue.
12 SENATOR STEC: All right. Thank
13 you very much, Mr. President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
15 you, Senator Stec.
16 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Thank you.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Are there
18 any other Senators wishing to be heard?
19 (Laughter.)
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Seeing
21 and hearing none, debate is closed.
22 Ring the bell.
23 (Applause.)
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 Secretary will ring the bell.
7079
1 Read the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
8 Rhoads to explain his vote.
9 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
10 Mr. President.
11 Thank you for the lively debate,
12 Senator Skoufis. I did just want to -- since you
13 brought up a Ralph Caso election, I did just want
14 to correct the record.
15 Actually, Eugene Nickerson was the
16 county executive in '61, '64 and '67, who was a
17 Democrat. At the time, the county executive ran
18 every three years. In 1973, after Caso's
19 election in 1970, they elected, effective 1977,
20 to change it to a four-year term so you wouldn't
21 stagger the odd-even as you did every three
22 years. So I just wanted to correct you on that.
23 I just -- you know, I just wish --
24 and I know that things come to the floor and
25 members on the other side vote for their party.
7080
1 We tend to do the same thing too. And I know
2 that we're about to announce the final vote.
3 This is a truly bad idea. As Senator Borrello
4 said, this is something that no one locally
5 wants.
6 And I know for most of the members
7 in this room that are from the city, it doesn't
8 impact you. But for myself -- and one of the
9 reasons that I was so passionate about the
10 argument is that I find it offensive that we're
11 dictating what it is that we are doing in our
12 home county here from Albany without listening to
13 the voices of residents that don't want this.
14 And that's reflected by the
15 questions that were asked by Senator Walczyk to
16 the sponsor. No one wants this. So why are we
17 doing this?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
19 Rhoads to be recorded in the negative.
20 Senator Skoufis to explain his vote.
21 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Thank you,
22 Mr. President.
23 Briefly, I first want to thank a
24 number of people, starting with Majority Leader
25 Andrea Stewart-Cousins and, in the Assembly --
7081
1 which passed this bill a little bit earlier --
2 the Speaker and the sponsor, Amy Paulin.
3 I want to thank the Elections chair,
4 Zellnor Myrie, for his early support; staff,
5 including Marty Ascher; the State BOE; and many
6 others who contributed to the language in this
7 bill to make sure we got this right.
8 There are many times that any of us
9 here in this chamber wish we could wave a magic
10 wand to fix problems, to improve situations. And
11 of course no one has a magic wand. But this is
12 as pretty close as it gets. We're changing a
13 numeral, the last numeral of an election year,
14 and with that one change we are doubling to
15 tripling voter turnout in local town and county
16 elections.
17 I have heard my colleagues. I
18 appreciate the dialogue and the debate. And, you
19 know, this specter of politics as a motivation
20 kept coming up, although I'm curious why that
21 wasn't incorporated into any of the questions.
22 If it was, the response would have
23 been simple: How and why? How is higher voter
24 turnout somehow politically motivated? What is
25 anyone afraid of with higher voter turnout? Why
7082
1 is that better for Democrats, more people voting?
2 I think that's a question we all have to ask
3 ourselves. We should all be in pursuit of and in
4 support of higher voter turnout.
5 The evidence is crystal-clear.
6 Every single place that has incorporated this
7 reform in the country has seen dramatically
8 higher turnout. And when posed the question who
9 wants this, I think if you asked almost any voter
10 in this state, Do you think 70 percent of people
11 should be choosing their county executive or
12 20 percent of people, 99 out of a hundred would
13 probably say the former, not the latter.
14 This is about making sure that our
15 county governments and our town governments as
16 best as possible reflect the communities that
17 those officeholders are serving. And I daresay
18 it is near impossible to have a proper reflection
19 when only 20 percent of voters are participating
20 in those races.
21 And so I thank my colleagues who are
22 in support of this bill. I look forward to its
23 implementation. I look forward, yes, to the
24 constitutional amendment that was invoked a
25 number of times in this debate. And most
7083
1 importantly, I look forward to far greater
2 participation in our local elections.
3 I vote yes.
4 Thank you, Madam President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
6 Skoufis to be recorded in the affirmative.
7 Announce the results.
8 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
10 Skoufis was to close. It was announced that
11 Senator Skoufis was closing.
12 SENATOR GIANARIS: Madam President,
13 let's let Senator Martins explain his vote.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Okay.
15 Senator Martins.
16 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you. And
17 thank you, Senator Gianaris.
18 You know, we talk about numbers,
19 percentages -- I've heard more percentages in the
20 last two hours than perhaps in the last six
21 months that we've been in session. Percentages
22 for everything -- 50 percent increase in that,
23 70 percent increase in this. Twenty percent more
24 over X, Y and Z.
25 Here's what I know. I know that you
7084
1 don't have a town election with a federal
2 election. I know that when people need to decide
3 where to invest their money and whether or not to
4 elect people locally, you shouldn't intrude with
5 federal elections, presidential elections,
6 congressional elections at the same time.
7 As I said earlier, I know that
8 nobody in my district has come to me and asked me
9 to consolidate, unify, merge, align any of these
10 elections. And yet I also know that there's a
11 strong political component around doing this.
12 That's a fact. The sponsor knows it. Everybody
13 in the room knows it. We all know what's going
14 on here. There's no secret here. We can sit
15 here and talk about percentages and good
16 government groups and talk about Common Cause,
17 but that's not what this is about. And the sad
18 part is everybody in this room knows exactly what
19 this is about. And we all know how this vote's
20 going to turn out.
21 The reason we don't have a state
22 referendum on whether or not to move forward is
23 because they decided to bring this bill to the
24 floor not through the committee, but to bring it
25 directly to the floor. And you know what?
7085
1 Conveniently, we haven't had the opportunity to
2 introduce the very bill that would allow for the
3 constitutional amendment.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
5 Martins --
6 SENATOR MARTINS: I vote no.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
8 Martins, right on time, votes no.
9 Announce the results.
10 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
11 Calendar Number 1802, those Senators voting in
12 the negative are Senators Ashby, Borrello,
13 Breslin, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Gallivan, Griffo,
14 Helming, Lanza, Martins, Mattera, Mayer, Murray,
15 Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads,
16 Rolison, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.
17 Ayes, 39. Nays, 23.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
19 is passed.
20 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
21 reading of the controversial calendar.
22 (Member reaction.)
23 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
24 please recognize Senator Lanza for a motion.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
7086
1 Lanza.
2 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President,
3 Senator Stec moves for a substitution. Please
4 call up Senate Print Number 5836, which is now at
5 the desk.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7 Secretary will read.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 605, Senate Print 5836, by Senator Stec, an act
10 to amend the Town Law.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
12 roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 SENATOR LANZA: I now move to
15 reconsider the vote by which the bill was passed
16 and to restore it to the order of third reading.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
18 roll on reconsideration.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 62.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
22 is restored to its place on the Third Reading
23 Calendar.
24 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, I
25 now move to discharge, from the Committee on
7087
1 Local Government, Assembly Print 5801 and
2 substitute it for the identical bill.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: So
4 ordered.
5 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, the
6 Senate bill on first passage was voted
7 unanimously. I now move that the substituted
8 Assembly bill have its third reading at this
9 time.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: So
11 ordered.
12 Senator Gianaris.
13 SENATOR GIANARIS: Let us take up
14 the report of the Rules Committee, please.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
16 Secretary will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senator
18 Stewart-Cousins, from the Committee on Rules,
19 reports the following bills:
20 Senate Print 7573, by
21 Senator Kavanagh, an act to amend the
22 Education Law;
23 Senate Print 4709A, by
24 Senator Kavanagh, an act to amend the
25 Real Property Tax Law;
7088
1 Senate Print 4712B, by
2 Senator Weber, an act to amend the Town Law;
3 Senate Print 4901, by
4 Senator Rolison, an act to amend the Village Law;
5 Senate Print 4981B, by
6 Senator Brouk, an act to amend the
7 Public Health Law;
8 Senate Print 5120B, by
9 Senator Parker, an act to amend the
10 Public Service Law;
11 Senate Print 5239, by
12 Senator Skoufis, an act to amend the
13 Retirement and Social Security Law;
14 Senate Print 5742, by
15 Senator Palumbo, an act permitting the
16 Village Board of the Village of Southampton to
17 provide health insurance coverage for enrolled
18 members of the Southampton Village Ocean Rescue;
19 Senate Print 5827, by
20 Senator Cleare, an act to amend the
21 Public Authorities Law;
22 Senate Print 6126A, by
23 Senator Murray, an act authorizing the Town of
24 Brookhaven to alienate certain parklands for use
25 as a wet retention pond;
7089
1 Senate Print 6177B, by
2 Senator Martins, an act in relation to
3 authorizing the County of Nassau assessor to
4 accept an application for a real property tax
5 exemption;
6 Senate Print 6262A, by Senator Weik,
7 an act to amend Chapter 493 of the Laws of 1987;
8 Senate Print 7399, by
9 Senator Felder, an act to amend the
10 Education Law;
11 Senate Print 7456, by
12 Senator Kavanagh, an act to amend the
13 Public Housing Law;
14 Senate Print 7492B, by
15 Senator Stavisky, an act to amend the
16 Education Law;
17 Senate Print 7513, by
18 Senator Martinez, an act to amend the
19 State Finance Law;
20 Senate Print 7519, by
21 Senator Jackson, an act to amend the
22 Retirement and Social Security Law;
23 Senate Print 7542, by
24 Senator O'Mara, an act authorizing the
25 Commissioner of General Services to transfer and
7090
1 convey certain unappropriated state land to the
2 Town of Romulus;
3 Senate Print 7566B, by
4 Senator Kennedy, an act relating to settlement of
5 certain land claims;
6 Senate Print 7574, by
7 Senator Addabbo, an act to amend the
8 Education Law;
9 Senate Print 7444, by
10 Senator Brisport, an act to amend the
11 Family Court Act;
12 Senate Print 7571, by
13 Senator Scarcella-Spanton, an act in relation to
14 authorizing the Silver Lake Foundation Inc. to
15 receive retroactive real property tax exempt
16 status.
17 All bills reported direct to third
18 reading.
19 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
20 the report of the Rules Committee.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: All those
22 in favor of accepting the report of the
23 Rules Committee signify by saying aye.
24 (Response of "Aye.")
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
7091
1 nay.
2 (No response.)
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The Rules
4 Committee report is accepted.
5 Senator Gianaris.
6 SENATOR GIANARIS: Let's go to
7 messages from the Assembly, please.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
9 Secretary will read.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Rolison
11 moves to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
12 Assembly Bill Number 5223C and substitute it for
13 the identical Senate Bill 5362C, Third Reading
14 Calendar 693.
15 Senator Rolison moves to discharge,
16 from the Committee on Local Government,
17 Assembly Bill Number 5355 and substitute it for
18 the identical Senate Bill 4901, Third Reading
19 Calendar 1843.
20 Senator Brouk moves to discharge,
21 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
22 Number 1297B and substitute it for the identical
23 Senate Bill 4981B, Third Reading Calendar 1844.
24 Senator Parker moves to discharge,
25 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
7092
1 Number 1721B and substitute it for the identical
2 Senate Bill 5120B, Third Reading Calendar 1845.
3 Senator Skoufis moves to discharge,
4 from the Committee on Civil Service and Pensions,
5 Assembly Bill Number 5716 and substitute it for
6 the identical Senate Bill Number 5239, Third
7 Reading Calendar 1846.
8 Senator Palumbo moves to discharge,
9 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
10 Number 5927 and substitute it for the identical
11 Senate Bill 5742, Third Reading Calendar 1847.
12 Senator Cleare moves to discharge,
13 from the Committee on Corporations, Authorities
14 and Commissions, Assembly Bill Number 4586 and
15 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 5827,
16 Third Reading Calendar 1848.
17 Senator Weik moves to discharge,
18 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
19 Number 6384A and substitute it for the identical
20 Senate Bill 6262A, Third Reading Calendar 1851.
21 Senator Kavanagh moves to discharge,
22 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
23 Number 7273 and substitute it for the identical
24 Senate Bill 7456, Third Reading Calendar 1853.
25 Senator Martinez moves to discharge,
7093
1 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
2 Number 6903 and substitute it for the identical
3 Senate Bill 7513, Third Reading Calendar 1855.
4 Senator Jackson moves to discharge,
5 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
6 Number 5710 and substitute it for the identical
7 Senate Bill 7519, Third Reading Calendar 1856.
8 Senator Brisport moves to discharge,
9 from the Committee on Children and Families,
10 Assembly Bill Number 6544 and substitute it for
11 the identical Senate Bill 7444, Third Reading
12 Calendar 1860.
13 Senator Stavisky moves to discharge,
14 from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill
15 Number 6697B and substitute it for the identical
16 Senate Bill 7492B, Third Reading Calendar 1854.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:
18 Substitutions so ordered.
19 The Secretary will read.
20 Excuse me. Senator -- Senator
21 Gianaris, excuse me.
22 SENATOR GIANARIS: Let's take up
23 the supplemental calendar, please.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 Secretary will read.
7094
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 693, Assembly Bill Number 5223C, by
3 Assemblymember Beephan, an act to amend the
4 Highway Law.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
6 last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
13 the results.
14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 62.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
16 is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1840, Senate Print 7573, by Senator Kavanagh, an
19 act to amend the Education Law.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
21 is high and will be laid aside for the day.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 1841, Senate Print 4709A, by Senator Kavanagh, an
24 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
7095
1 last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
8 the results.
9 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
10 Calendar 1841, those Senators voting in the
11 negative are Senators Ashby, Borrello, Brisport,
12 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming,
13 Lanza, Martins, Mattera, Murray, Oberacker,
14 O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, Rolison, Stec,
15 Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.
16 Ayes, 40. Nays, 22.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
18 is passed.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 1842, Senate Print 4712B, by Senator Weber, an
21 act to amend the Town Law.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
23 last section.
24 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
25 act shall take effect immediately.
7096
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
5 the results.
6 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
7 Calendar 1842, those Senators voting in the
8 negative are Senators Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick,
9 Cooney, Harckham, Hinchey, Kennedy, Lanza,
10 Mannion, Martinez, Mattera, Mayer, Murray,
11 O'Mara, Ortt, Scarcella-Spanton, Skoufis, Tedisco
12 and Webb.
13 Ayes, 45. Nays, 17.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1843, Assembly Bill Number 5355, by
18 Assemblymember Maher, an act to amend the
19 Village Law.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
21 last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
25 roll.
7097
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
3 the results.
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 62.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
6 is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 1844, Assembly Bill Number 1297B, by
9 Assemblymember Bichotte Hermelyn, an act to amend
10 the Public Health Law.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
12 last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
19 the results.
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 62.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
22 is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 1845, Assembly Bill Number 1721B, by
25 Assemblymember Cunningham, an act to amend the
7098
1 Public Service Law.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
3 last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
5 act shall take effect immediately.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
10 the results.
11 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
12 Calendar Number 1845, voting in the negative:
13 Senator Walczyk.
14 Ayes, 61. Nays, 1.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
16 is passed.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1846, Assembly Bill Number 5716, by
19 Assemblymember Pheffer Amato, an act to amend the
20 Retirement and Social Security Law.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
22 last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
24 act shall take effect immediately January 1,
25 2024.
7099
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
5 the results.
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 62.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1847, Assembly Bill Number 5927, by
11 Assemblymember Thiele, an act permitting the
12 Village Board of the Village of Southampton to
13 provide health insurance coverage for enrolled
14 members of the Southampton Village Ocean Rescue.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
16 a home-rule message at the desk.
17 Read the last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect immediately.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
24 the results.
25 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
7100
1 Calendar Number 1847, voting in the negative:
2 Senator Skoufis.
3 Ayes, 61. Nays, 1.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
5 is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1848, Assembly Bill Number 4586, by
8 Assemblymember Paulin, an act to amend the
9 Public Authorities Law.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
11 last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect on the 60th day after it
14 shall have become a law.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
19 the results.
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 62.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
22 is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 1849, Senate Print 6126A, by Senator Murray, an
25 act authorizing the Town of Brookhaven to
7101
1 alienate certain parklands for use as a wet
2 retention pond.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
4 a home-rule message at the desk.
5 Read the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
12 the results.
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 62.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1850, Senate Print 6177B, by Senator Martins, an
18 act in relation to authorizing the County of
19 Nassau assessor to accept an application for a
20 real property tax exemption.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
22 last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
24 act shall take effect immediately.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
7102
1 roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
4 the results.
5 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
6 Calendar Number 1850, those Senators voting in
7 the negative are Senators O'Mara and Skoufis.
8 Ayes, 60. Nays, 2.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
10 is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1851, Assembly Bill Number 6384A, by
13 Assemblymember Gandolfo, an act to amend
14 Chapter 493 of the Laws of 1987.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
16 last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
23 the results.
24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 62.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
7103
1 is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1852, Senate Print 7399, by Senator Felder, an
4 act to amend the Education Law.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
6 last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
13 the results.
14 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
15 Calendar Number 1852, voting in the negative are
16 Senators Cleare, Krueger and Ramos.
17 Ayes, 59. Nays, 3.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
19 is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1853, Assembly Bill Number 7273, by
22 Assemblymember Rosenthal, an act to amend the
23 Public Housing Law.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
25 last section.
7104
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
7 the results.
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 62.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
10 is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1854, Assembly Bill Number 6697B, by
13 Assemblymember Fahy, an act to amend the
14 Education Law.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
16 last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
23 the results.
24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 62.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
7105
1 is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1855, Assembly Bill Number 6903, by
4 Assemblymember Stern, an act to amend the
5 State Finance Law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
7 last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
14 the results.
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 62.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
17 is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1856, Assembly Bill Number 5710, by
20 Assemblymember Pheffer Amato, an act to amend the
21 Retirement and Social Security Law.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
23 last section.
24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
25 act shall take effect immediately.
7106
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
5 the results.
6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 62.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 1857, Senate Print 7542, by Senator O'Mara, an
11 act authorizing the Commissioner of
12 General Services to transfer and convey certain
13 unappropriated state land to the Town of Romulus.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
15 last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
22 the results.
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 62.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
25 is passed.
7107
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 1858, Senate Print 7566B, by Senator Kennedy, an
3 act relating to settlement of certain land
4 claims.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
6 Gianaris.
7 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there a
8 message of necessity at the desk?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
10 a message of necessity at the desk.
11 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
12 the message of necessity.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: All those
14 in favor of accepting the message please signify
15 by saying aye.
16 (Response of "Aye.")
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
18 nay.
19 (No response.)
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
21 message is accepted, and the bill is before the
22 house.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
24 last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7108
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
6 Kennedy to explain his vote.
7 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you,
8 Mr. President.
9 First of all, I want to thank our
10 Majority Leader, Andrea Stewart-Cousins, for
11 bringing this bill to the floor.
12 This bill authorizes the Governor to
13 execute an agreement settling the Mohawk land
14 claim in Franklin and St. Lawrence counties,
15 which has been pending since 1982. It's in the
16 best interests of the state as well as the
17 impacted counties to settle this long-standing
18 claim.
19 In 2014, the state, through the
20 Governor, St. Lawrence County and St. Regis
21 Mohawk Tribe entered into a memorandum of
22 understanding to set out a framework for settling
23 the case. Later, Franklin County and the other
24 Mohawk plaintiffs joined the settlement talks.
25 In 2022, a mediator was appointed by the federal
7109
1 magistrate, and the parties are now close to a
2 comprehensive settlement. Most recently, the
3 state and Franklin County reached agreement on a
4 key provision of the settlement which is
5 reflected in County Resolution 188.
6 The bill requires that the final
7 settlement signed by the Governor be considerably
8 consistent with the 2014 MOU and Resolution 188.
9 This recognizes that the 2014 MOU was not a
10 comprehensive settlement involving all parties
11 and that the final settlement may differ in some
12 ways while remaining considerably consistent with
13 the framework agreed to in the MOU.
14 I want to acknowledge
15 Assemblyman Billy Jones, who's carrying the bill
16 in the Assembly and who's worked on finding a
17 resolution to this issue for more than a decade.
18 I also want to recognize
19 Senator Stec for his leadership on this issue and
20 his commitment to a fair settlement for all
21 parties involved.
22 Finally, I commend the Governor for
23 finally resolving a 40-plus-year dispute that has
24 eluded so many previous administrations.
25 And with that, Mr. President, I vote
7110
1 aye.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
3 Kennedy to be recorded in the affirmative.
4 Senator Stec to explain his vote.
5 SENATOR STEC: Thank you,
6 Mr. President.
7 I want to echo my colleague's
8 sentiments and thank Senator Kennedy for his
9 efforts here. As a matter of fact, about a
10 year ago Senator Kennedy and I both were at the
11 St. Regis Mohawk Akwesasne together, meeting with
12 their leadership about this and many other
13 issues.
14 But as he mentioned, this is a
15 41-year-old-case that's been kicking around
16 involving two countries, two counties, several
17 towns, and of course the Akwesasne, the St. Regis
18 Mohawks. This is bringing it together. I was
19 the last one to the table here two and a half
20 years ago when I was elected and picked this up
21 as part of my Senate district.
22 And I can tell you that it's been
23 heavy on the minds particularly of my
24 constituents and the leaders in Franklin County.
25 Franklin County, Senator Skoufis, is the county
7111
1 that I was asking about the county leg. They
2 have three-year county terms, which I thought was
3 bizarre. I'd never heard of that before. But it
4 is Franklin County, to tie the two bills
5 together.
6 But again, I want to thank
7 Senator Kennedy for helping get this over the
8 finish line. And again, I know that the people
9 involved are thrilled to see this four-decade
10 chapter nearing an end and a fair settlement to
11 all.
12 So I'll be in the affirmative.
13 Thank you.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
15 Stec to be recorded in the affirmative.
16 Announce the results.
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 62.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
19 is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1859, Senate Print 7574, by Senator Addabbo, an
22 act to amend the Education Law.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
24 is high and will be laid aside for the day.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7112
1 1860, Assembly Bill Number 6544, by
2 Assemblymember Hevesi, an act to amend the
3 Family Court Act.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
5 last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
7 act shall take effect on the 90th day after it
8 shall have become a law.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
13 the results.
14 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
15 Calendar Number 1860, voting in the negative:
16 Senator Griffo.
17 Ayes, 61. Nays, 1.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
19 is passed.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 1861, Senate Print Number 7571, by
22 Senator Scarcella-Spanton, an act in relation to
23 authorizing the Silver Lake Foundation Inc. to
24 receive retroactive real property tax exempt
25 status.
7113
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
2 is high and will be laid aside for the day.
3 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
4 reading of today's supplemental calendar.
5 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President, I
6 believe there's a report of the Finance Committee
7 at the desk. Can we take that up now and call on
8 Senator Krueger.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
10 Secretary will read.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Krueger,
12 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
13 following nominations.
14 As Inspector General of the
15 Metropolitan Transportation Authority,
16 Daniel Cort.
17 As members of the State Board of
18 Parole: Ana M. Enright, Erin McCabe,
19 Donna Henken, Brandon P. Stradford.
20 As Commissioner of the Tax Appeals
21 Tribunal, Kevin A. Cahill.
22 As Commissioner of the Department of
23 Health, James V. McDonald.
24 As commissioners of the State Liquor
25 Authority: Lily M. Fan and Edgar De Leon.
7114
1 As members of the Workers'
2 Compensation Board: Gloribelle J. Perez and
3 Clarissa M. Rodriguez.
4 As Major General of the Air National
5 Guard, Robert G. Kilgore.
6 As Major General of the
7 National Guard, Joseph Biehler.
8 As a member of the New York
9 Convention Center Operating Corporation,
10 Richard N. Gottfried.
11 As members of the Roosevelt Island
12 Operating Corporation: Ben Fhala, Michal L.
13 Melamed, and Lydia W. Tang.
14 As a member of the Central New York
15 Regional Transportation Authority,
16 Tina Fitzgerald.
17 As members of the Metropolitan
18 Transportation Authority: John-Ross Rizzo and
19 Neal J. Zuckerman.
20 As members of the Niagara Frontier
21 Transportation Authority: Mark E. Blue,
22 Margo Dawn Downey, Adam W. Perry and
23 Dennis Virtuouso.
24 As a commissioner of the
25 Port Authority of New York and New Jersey,
7115
1 Winston C. Fisher.
2 As a member of the Rochester-Genesee
3 Regional Transportation Authority, Heather Bird.
4 As a member of the Correction
5 Medical Review Board, Zhongxue Hua.
6 As members of the Allegany State
7 Park, Recreation and Historic Preservation
8 Commission: Hugh J. Dunne, Jr., and Sandra A.
9 Lewis.
10 As a member of the Finger Lakes
11 State Park, Recreation and Historic Preservation
12 Commission, Dia M. Carabajal.
13 As a member of the Genesee State
14 Park, Recreation and Historic Preservation
15 Commission, Joel Frater.
16 As a member of the Niagara Frontier
17 State Park, Recreation and Historic Preservation
18 Commission, Jeffery Paterson.
19 As a member of the Palisades
20 Interstate Park Commission, Jennifer Cunningham.
21 As members of the Taconic State
22 Park, Recreation and Historic Preservation
23 Commission: Jared T. Rodriguez and Emily V.
24 Saland.
25 As a member of the Board of Visitors
7116
1 of the Hudson Valley Developmental Disabilities
2 Services Office, Charles Scheinberg.
3 As trustees of the Power Authority
4 of the State of New York: Michael Cusick,
5 Cecily L. Morris, Lewis M. Warren, Jr., and
6 Laurie Wheelock.
7 As a member of the Dormitory
8 Authority, Robert J. Rodriguez.
9 As trustees of the Board of Trustees
10 of the City University of New York: Barbaralee
11 Diamonstein-Speilvogel, Sandra Wilkin Frowley and
12 William C. Thompson, Jr.
13 As members of the Board of Trustees
14 of the New York State Higher Education Services
15 Corporation: David Harris, Becky Z. Maxson and
16 Manuel Rivera.
17 As a trustee of the Board of
18 Trustees of the State University of New York,
19 Cary F. Staller.
20 As a member of the Board of Visitors
21 of the Buffalo Psychiatric Center, Christina M.
22 Smith.
23 As a member of the Board of Visitors
24 of the Greater Binghamton Health Center,
25 Debra L. Lombardo.
7117
1 As a member of the Board of Visitors
2 of the Kirby Forensic Psychiatric Center,
3 Michael Atherley.
4 As a member of the Board of Visitors
5 of the Sagamore Children's Psychiatric Center,
6 Alissa Barosin.
7 As a member of the Board of Visitors
8 of the South Beach Psychiatric Center,
9 Zvi S. Spiler.
10 As a member of the New York State
11 Gaming Commission, Sylvia B. Hamer.
12 As a member of the New York State
13 Thruway Authority, Norman H. Jones.
14 As a member of the Board of Visitors
15 for the New York State Home for Veterans and
16 Their Dependents at Batavia, Wallace J. Kornow.
17 As a member of the Board of Visitors
18 for the New York State Home for Veterans and
19 Their Dependents at Montrose, Freemont Reif.
20 As members of the Board of Visitors
21 for the New York State Home for Veterans and
22 Their Dependents at Oxford: Randall Lambrecht,
23 John E. Fuller and Louisa Mary Platt.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:
25 Senator Krueger.
7118
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you. I was
2 waiting for the whole list to get read.
3 That list that you just heard was
4 the nominees that the Governor submitted to us.
5 They all went through both the committee of
6 relevant origin for the responsibilities, and
7 through the Finance Committee. And they had the
8 votes to be brought to the floor.
9 Given the fact that it's 2:20 in the
10 morning, I am urging that we simply take them up
11 as a group and vote on them as a group on the
12 floor.
13 And if anyone here wants to go to
14 the Journal Clerk afterwards and individually
15 file their no vote on any individual member that
16 was named on this extraordinarily long list, that
17 is your right and that will be the historic
18 record of your vote.
19 So now I'm going to hand it back to
20 I guess Mike Gianaris for the vote. Thank you.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
22 you, Senator Krueger.
23 The question is on the nominations.
24 All those in favor signify by saying aye.
25 (Response of "Aye.")
7119
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
2 nay.
3 (Response of "Nay.")
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5 nominees are confirmed.
6 The Secretary will read.
7 Excuse me. Senator Gianaris.
8 It is 2:20 in the morning.
9 (Laughter.)
10 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
11 there are several privileged resolutions at the
12 desk. Can we please take those up at this time.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
14 Secretary will read.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senate Resolution
16 1391, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, amending
17 Senate Resolution 2861 of 2022 establishing a
18 plan setting forth an itemized list of grantees
19 for a certain appropriation for the 2022-2023
20 state fiscal year for grants in aid to certain
21 agricultural organizations.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
23 question is on the resolution.
24 Call the roll.
25 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7120
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Excuse
2 me. All those in favor please signify by saying
3 aye.
4 (Response of "Aye.")
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
6 nay.
7 (Response of "Nay.")
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
9 resolution is adopted.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senate Resolution
11 1392, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, amending
12 Senate Resolution 5911 of 2018 establishing a
13 plan setting forth an itemized list of grantees
14 for a certain appropriation for the 2018-19 state
15 fiscal year.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
17 question is on the resolution. All those in
18 favor signify by saying aye.
19 (Response of "Aye.")
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
21 nay.
22 (No response.)
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
24 resolution is adopted.
25 THE SECRETARY: Senate Resolution
7121
1 1393, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, amending
2 Senate Resolution 2141 of 2019 establishing a
3 plan setting forth an itemized list of grantees
4 for a certain appropriation for the 2019-20 state
5 fiscal year.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7 question is on the resolution. All those in
8 favor signify by saying aye.
9 (Response of "Aye.")
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
11 nay.
12 (Response of "Nay.")
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
14 resolution is adopted.
15 THE SECRETARY: Senate Resolution
16 1394, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, amending
17 Senate Resolution 2860 of 2022 establishing a
18 plan setting forth an itemized list of grantees
19 for a certain appropriation for the 2022-23 state
20 fiscal year.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
22 question is on the resolution. All those in
23 favor signify by saying aye.
24 (Response of "Aye.")
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed?
7122
1 (Response of "Nay.")
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 resolution is adopted.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senate Resolution
5 1395, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, amending
6 Senate Resolution 2865 of 2022 establishing a
7 plan setting forth an itemized list of grantees
8 for the New York State Economic Development
9 Assistance Program.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
11 question is on the resolution. All those in
12 favor signify by saying aye.
13 (Emphatic response of "Aye.")
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed?
15 (Emphatic response of "Nay.")
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
17 resolution is still adopted.
18 (Laughter.)
19 THE SECRETARY: Senate Resolution
20 1396, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, establishing a
21 plan setting forth an itemized list of grantees
22 for a certain appropriation for the 2023-2024
23 state fiscal year.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 question is on the resolution. All those in
7123
1 favor signify by saying aye.
2 (Response of "Aye.")
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
4 nay.
5 (Response of "Aye.")
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7 resolution is adopted.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senate Resolution
9 1397, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, establishing a
10 plan setting forth an itemized list of grantees
11 for a certain appropriation for the 2023-24 state
12 fiscal year.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
14 question is on the resolution. All those in
15 favor signify by saying aye.
16 (Response of "Aye.")
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
18 nay.
19 (Response of "Nay.")
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
21 resolution is adopted.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senate Resolution
23 1398, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, amending
24 Senate Resolution 2866 of 2022 establishing a
25 plan setting forth an itemized list of grantees
7124
1 for a certain appropriation for the 2022-2023
2 state fiscal year.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 question is on the resolution. All those in
5 favor signify by saying aye.
6 (Response of "Aye.")
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
8 nay?
9 (Response of "Nay.")
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
11 resolution is adopted.
12 THE SECRETARY: Senate Resolution
13 1399, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, amending
14 Senate Resolution 2859 of 2022 establishing a
15 plan setting forth an itemized list of grantees
16 for a certain appropriation for the 2022-2023
17 state fiscal year.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
19 question is on the resolution. All those in
20 favor signify by saying aye.
21 (Response of "Aye.")
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
23 nay.
24 (Response of "Nay.")
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7125
1 resolution is adopted.
2 THE SECRETARY: Senate Resolution
3 1400, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, amending
4 Senate Resolution 2867 of 2022 establishing a
5 plan setting forth an itemized list of grantees
6 for a certain appropriation for the 2022-2023
7 state fiscal year.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
9 question is on the resolution. All those in
10 favor signify by saying aye.
11 (Response of "Aye.")
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Those
13 opposed, nay.
14 (Response of "Nay.")
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
16 resolution is adopted.
17 THE SECRETARY: Senate Resolution
18 1401, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, establishing a
19 plan setting forth an itemized list of grantees
20 for a certain appropriation for the 2023-2024
21 state fiscal year.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
23 question is on the resolution. All those in
24 favor signify by saying aye.
25 (Response of "Aye.")
7126
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
2 say nay.
3 (Response of "Nay.")
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5 resolution is adopted.
6 THE SECRETARY: Senate Resolution
7 1402, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, amending
8 Senate Resolution 2868 of 2022 establishing a
9 plan setting forth an itemized list of grantees
10 for a certain appropriation for the 2022-23 state
11 fiscal year.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
13 question is on the resolution. Those in favor
14 signify by saying aye.
15 (Response of "Aye.")
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
17 nay.
18 (Response of "Nay.")
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
20 resolution is adopted.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senate Resolution
22 1403, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, amending
23 Senate Resolution 2863 of 2022 establishing a
24 plan setting forth an itemized list of grantees
25 for a certain appropriation for the 2022-2023
7127
1 state fiscal year.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 question is on the resolution. All those in
4 favor signify by saying aye.
5 (Response of "Aye.")
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
7 nay.
8 (Response of "Nay.")
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
10 resolution is adopted.
11 THE SECRETARY: Senate Resolution
12 1404, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, establishing a
13 plan setting forth an itemized list of grantees
14 for a certain appropriation for the 2023-24 state
15 fiscal year.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
17 question is on the resolution. All those in
18 favor signify by saying aye.
19 (Response of "Aye.")
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
21 nay.
22 (Response of "Nay.")
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
24 resolution is adopted.
25 THE SECRETARY: Senate Resolution
7128
1 1405, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, amending
2 Senate Resolution 2858 of 2022 establishing a
3 plan setting forth an itemized list of grantees
4 for certain appropriations for the 2022-23 state
5 fiscal year.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: the
7 question is on the resolution. Those in favor
8 signify by saying aye.
9 (Response of "Aye.")
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed?
11 (Response of "Nay.")
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
13 resolution is adopted.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senate Resolution
15 1406, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, establishing a
16 plan setting forth an itemized list of grantees
17 for a certain appropriation for the 2023-24 state
18 fiscal year.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
20 question is on the resolution. All those in
21 favor signify by saying aye.
22 (Response of "Aye.")
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
24 nay.
25 (Response of "Nay.")
7129
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
2 resolution is adopted.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senate Resolution
4 1407, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, amending
5 Senate Resolution 2869 of 2022 establishing a
6 plan setting forth an itemized list of grantees
7 for a certain appropriation for the 2022-23 state
8 fiscal year.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
10 question is on the resolution. Those in favor
11 signify by saying aye.
12 (Response of "Aye.")
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
14 nay.
15 (Response of "Nay.")
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
17 resolution is adopted.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senate Resolution
19 1408, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, establishing a
20 plan setting forth an itemized list of grantees
21 for a certain appropriation for the 2023-24 state
22 fiscal year.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
24 question is on the resolution. All those in
25 favor signify by saying aye.
7130
1 (Response of "Aye.")
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
3 nay.
4 (Response of "Nay.")
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
6 resolution is adopted.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senate Resolution
8 1409, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, amending
9 Senate Resolution 6134 of 2014 establishing a
10 plan setting forth an itemized list of grantees
11 for certain appropriations in the 2014-2015 state
12 fiscal year.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
14 question is on the resolution. Those in favor
15 signify by saying aye.
16 (Response of "Aye.")
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
18 nay.
19 (Response of "Nay.")
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
21 resolution is adopted.
22 THE SECRETARY: Senate Resolution
23 1411, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, amending
24 Senate Resolution 2864 of 2022 establishing a
25 plan setting forth an itemized list of grantees
7131
1 for a certain appropriation for the 2022-23
2 fiscal year.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 question is on the resolution. Those in favor
5 signify by saying aye.
6 (Response of "Aye.")
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
8 nay.
9 (Response of "Nay.")
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
11 resolution is adopted.
12 Senator Gianaris.
13 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
14 there were some bills on previous calendars that
15 we just need to do some cleanup with. So can we
16 go back to Calendar 823, from the active list,
17 and take that up, please.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
19 a substitution at the desk.
20 The Secretary will read.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Breslin
22 moves to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
23 Assembly Bill Number 3463A and substitute it for
24 the identical Senate Bill 6349A, Third Reading
25 Calendar 823.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:
2 Substitution so ordered.
3 The Secretary will read.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 823, Assembly Bill Number 3463A, by
6 Assemblymember Santabarbara, an act to amend the
7 Executive Law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
9 last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. this
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
13 roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
16 the results.
17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 62.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
19 is passed.
20 SENATOR GIANARIS: Calendar 1225,
21 please.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
23 a substitution at the desk.
24 The Secretary will read.
25 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bailey
7133
1 moves to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
2 Assembly Bill Number 4009A and substitute it for
3 the identical Senate Bill 5965A, Third Reading
4 Calendar 1225.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:
6 Substitution so ordered.
7 The Secretary will read.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1225, Assembly Bill Number 4009A, by
10 Assemblymember Gibbs, an act to amend the
11 Correction Law.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Read the
13 last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect on the 180th day after it
16 shall have become a law.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
18 roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
21 the results.
22 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
23 Calendar 1225, those Senators voting in the
24 negative are Senators Ashby, Borrello,
25 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming,
7134
1 Lanza, Martins, Mattera, Murray, Oberacker,
2 O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, Rolison, Stec,
3 Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.
4 Ayes, 41. Nays, 21.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
6 is passed.
7 Senator Gianaris.
8 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
9 the remaining bills will be laid aside for the
10 day.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 remaining bills will be aside for the day.
13 SENATOR GIANARIS: I don't want
14 anyone to get excited by what they're about to
15 hear; we're not done.
16 But is there any further business at
17 the desk?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
19 no further business at the desk.
20 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to adjourn
21 until Saturday, June 10th, at 2:35.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Motion to
23 adjourn until Saturday, June 10th, at 2:35 a.m.
24 (Whereupon, the Senate adjourned at
25 2:30 a.m.)