Regular Session - April 10, 2025
1873
1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
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3
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
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9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 April 10, 2025
11 11:17 a.m.
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13
14 REGULAR SESSION
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16
17
18 SENATOR JAMAAL T. BAILEY, Acting President
19 ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary
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1874
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 Senate will come to order.
4 I ask everyone present to please
5 rise and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.
6 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited
7 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: In the
9 absence of clergy, let us bow our heads in a
10 moment of silent reflection or prayer.
11 (Whereupon, the assemblage respected
12 a moment of silence.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Reading
14 of the Journal.
15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
16 Wednesday, April 9, 2025, the Senate met pursuant
17 to adjournment. The Journal of Tuesday, April 8,
18 2025, was read and approved. On motion, the
19 Senate adjourned.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Without
21 objection, the Journal stands approved as read.
22 Presentation of petitions.
23 Messages from the Assembly.
24 Messages from the Governor.
25 Reports of standing committees.
1875
1 Reports of select committees.
2 Communications and reports from
3 state officers.
4 Motions and resolutions.
5 Senator Gianaris.
6 SENATOR GIANARIS: Good morning,
7 Mr. President.
8 On behalf of Senator Stavisky, on
9 page 21 I offer the following amendments to
10 Calendar 456, Senate Print 4559A, and ask that
11 said bill retain its place on Third Reading
12 Calendar.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
14 amendments are received, and the bill will retain
15 its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
16 Senator Gianaris.
17 SENATOR GIANARIS: There will be an
18 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in
19 Room 332.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Immediate
21 meeting of the Rules Committee in Room 332.
22 SENATOR GIANARIS: The Senate
23 stands at ease.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 Senate will stand at ease.
1876
1 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease
2 at 11:18 a.m.)
3 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at
4 11:26 a.m.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
6 Senate will return to order.
7 Senator Gianaris.
8 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
9 there's a report of the Rules Committee at the
10 desk. Please take that up.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 Secretary will read.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator
14 Stewart-Cousins, from the Committee on Rules,
15 reports the following bill:
16 Senate Print 7317, by
17 Senator Krueger, an act making appropriations for
18 the support of government.
19 Bill ordered direct to third
20 reading.
21 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
22 the report of the Rules Committee.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: All those
24 in favor of accepting the report of the
25 Rules Committee, please signify by saying aye.
1877
1 (Response of "Aye.")
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
3 nay.
4 (No response.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
6 report of the Rules Committee is accepted.
7 Senator Gianaris.
8 SENATOR GIANARIS: Please take up
9 the supplemental calendar.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
11 Secretary will read.
12 There is a substitution at the desk.
13 The Secretary will read.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Krueger
15 moves to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
16 Assembly Bill Number 7765 and substitute it for
17 the identical Senate Bill 7317, Third Reading
18 Calendar 681.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
20 substitution is so ordered.
21 The Secretary will read.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 681, Assembly Bill Number 7765, by
24 Assemblymember Pretlow, an act making
25 appropriations for the support of government.
1878
1 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there a
2 message of necessity and appropriation at the
3 desk?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
5 a message of necessity and appropriation at the
6 desk.
7 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
8 the message of necessity and appropriation.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: All those
10 in favor of accepting the message please signify
11 by saying aye.
12 (Response of "Aye.")
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
14 nay.
15 (No response.)
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
17 message is accepted, and the bill is before the
18 house.
19 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
21 is laid aside.
22 Senator Gianaris.
23 SENATOR GIANARIS: Please take up
24 the controversial calendar.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
1879
1 Secretary will ring the bell.
2 The Secretary will read.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 681, Assembly Bill Number 7765, by
5 Assemblymember Pretlow, an act making
6 appropriations for the support of government.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
8 O'Mara, why do you rise?
9 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you,
10 Mr. President. Will the sponsor yield for a few
11 questions.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
13 sponsor yield?
14 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I will.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you,
18 Senator Krueger. Good morning.
19 And here we are on our fourth budget
20 extender now. How much appropriation authority
21 is included in this extender before us today?
22 And when is it good through?
23 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you,
24 Mr. President. Through you.
25 This extender is through April 15,
1880
1 2025. Although some of us are saying it's not
2 really April yet, it's around March like 39th or
3 something. But officially April 15th.
4 And it's for a total of 6.1 billion
5 in appropriation authority to meet payroll costs
6 and to allow certain payments of the general
7 state charges, Judiciary, Office of Children and
8 Family Services, Office of Temporary and
9 Disability Assistance, Department of Health,
10 Department of Labor, Department of
11 Transportation, Office for People with
12 Developmental Disabilities, Department of
13 Veteran Affairs.
14 There's more details, but I think
15 that probably gives you the general.
16 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you.
17 Through you, Mr. President, if the
18 Senator will continue to yield.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
20 sponsor yield?
21 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
23 Senator yields.
24 SENATOR O'MARA: So we're at
25 March 39th, I assume, 11:59 p.m.?
1881
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: That sounds about
2 right.
3 SENATOR O'MARA: The clock has
4 stopped.
5 SENATOR KRUEGER: You got it.
6 SENATOR O'MARA: But more seriously
7 on this now, would this extender of roughly
8 $2.4 billion -- what's the total amount that we
9 have appropriated through extenders since missing
10 the April 1st deadline to have a timely budget?
11 SENATOR KRUEGER: One moment.
12 Approximately 13.3 billion.
13 SENATOR O'MARA: Okay. So through
14 you, Mr. President, if the Senator will continue
15 to yield.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
17 sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
20 sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR O'MARA: Yes. So that
22 13-point-whatever billion over 15 days is we're
23 spending at a rate of just under a billion
24 dollars a day without having an actual spending
25 plan in place for the coming fiscal year.
1882
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
2 Mr. President, that is factually correct.
3 As I mentioned the last time this
4 question came up a couple of days ago, it's
5 because we're working off of an extension of the
6 spending we were doing in the previous year. We
7 are spending basically the same rate of money
8 that we did up until we were late. So this is a
9 normal dollar amount going out of the state
10 budget each day. Or through the state budget
11 each day.
12 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you.
13 Mr. President, if the Senator will
14 continue to yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR O'MARA: You know, it's our
21 general understanding here on this side of the
22 aisle -- since we're not in your conference room
23 with you in the Majority, what we pick up in the
24 media, social media, and what -- the budget's
25 largely being hung up on a few policy issues. Is
1883
1 that still the case? What are those policy
2 issues? And do you feel the sides are any closer
3 to resolving those?
4 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
5 Mr. President. Unfortunately, many of us get the
6 same information through the same media.
7 So we do think that we continue to
8 have discussions around discovery, involuntary
9 hospitalizations, mask questions, some new issues
10 the Governor has put on the table that many of us
11 aren't clear ought to be budget discussions
12 because they aren't involving the actual dollars
13 and cents of having the state continue to
14 function.
15 Are we closer? I get myself in
16 trouble every time I get asked this question.
17 Based on statements that were made
18 by both leaders of the Senate and the Assembly
19 yesterday, unfortunately I don't feel that we are
20 making progress fast enough.
21 SENATOR O'MARA: Through you,
22 Mr. President, if the Senator will continue to
23 yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
25 Senator yield?
1884
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR O'MARA: Senator Krueger,
5 we've heard at least reports that some policy
6 issues, new ones, kind of keep getting thrown on
7 the table. Just heard yesterday that there was
8 possibly a policy issue regarding the public
9 campaign finance that has been thrown out there
10 for discussion.
11 Can you -- are you still getting new
12 policy issues from the Executive? Is the
13 Legislature, the Senate or the Assembly, putting
14 new policy issues forward to kind of trade off
15 the other ones?
16 SENATOR KRUEGER: I do know that
17 there was some proposal to change campaign
18 finance. I do not believe the Senate put that on
19 the table. I am not sure whether that was the
20 Governor or the Assembly.
21 So I don't know. I don't believe
22 the Senate is putting new policy issues on the
23 table. Obviously, we need to respond to anything
24 that is put on the table in three-way
25 discussions.
1885
1 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you.
2 Through you, Mr. President, if the
3 Senator will continue to yield.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
5 sponsor yield?
6 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
8 Senator yields.
9 SENATOR O'MARA: Do you know any of
10 the details of what the requested change to the
11 campaign finance program is?
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
13 Mr. President, I don't think I've seen anything
14 in writing about what the proposed changes are,
15 so I think I have to leave it there.
16 Perhaps if there was a discussion
17 with our Elections Committee, there might be more
18 detail. But I don't believe there's been any
19 written materials shared that I know of.
20 SENATOR O'MARA: Through you,
21 Mr. President, if the Senator will continue to
22 yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
24 sponsor yield?
25 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
1886
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
2 sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR O'MARA: Since we're not in
4 court, I'll accept hearsay. So what --
5 (Laughter.)
6 SENATOR O'MARA: What have you
7 heard about the campaign finance proposal?
8 SENATOR KRUEGER: My colleague went
9 to law school. How am I supposed to answer that
10 one?
11 SENATOR GIANARIS: You don't have
12 to answer it.
13 (Laughter.)
14 SENATOR KRUEGER: I'm not sure I
15 can get into a hearsay discussion, because I
16 really mean to go to law school but I haven't
17 gone there yet.
18 Sorry.
19 SENATOR O'MARA: So you've heard
20 nothing on the proposal?
21 SENATOR KRUEGER: No, I've heard
22 various people talking about ideas, but I don't
23 know what is an actual proposal or who is
24 actually proposing it.
25 SENATOR O'MARA: Okay, thank you.
1887
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: So I guess it is
2 all hearsay.
3 SENATOR O'MARA: Yeah.
4 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yeah.
5 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you.
6 Mr. President, if the Senator will
7 continue to yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR KRUEGER: I do.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR O'MARA: And this extender,
14 and in the prior three extenders, have there been
15 any policy issues advanced in any of these
16 extenders?
17 SENATOR KRUEGER: No, I think these
18 all have been what we refer to as clean
19 extenders. Just keeping the money flowing as it
20 would flow if it was, you know, not at the end of
21 the fiscal year.
22 SENATOR O'MARA: Through you,
23 Mr. President, if Senator Krueger will continue
24 to yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
1888
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR O'MARA: Senator, one
6 particular issue that we discussed briefly before
7 session here, the Consumer Directed Personal
8 Assistance Program and the kind of chaotic
9 position that's in right now under an extension.
10 We're getting a lot of calls in my
11 office, and I know my colleagues are, and I'm
12 sure you are as well with regards to the
13 uncertainty over that program.
14 Is the CDPAP program under
15 consideration for more changes in the budget
16 negotiations? And can you tell us really what
17 the status of that is for those personal care
18 providers that have not made the transition yet
19 under the new program?
20 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you very
21 much for the question.
22 No, I don't think that there are any
23 discussion of changes in CDPAP within the budget
24 discussions.
25 It is true that there have been
1889
1 court cases and TROs, and I think a negotiated
2 agreement between the Governor and the court and
3 those who brought the case to do extensions of
4 the continuation through the fiscal
5 intermediaries if you have not moved to the new
6 system. And that the dates have been extended
7 till May 15th, with an end date of June 6th. And
8 that people will continue to be paid through
9 their fiscal intermediaries if the transition has
10 not taken place, as long as that fiscal
11 intermediary has actually not closed up shop
12 already.
13 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you.
14 Mr. President, if the Senator will
15 continue to yield.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
17 sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
20 sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR O'MARA: Do we know how
22 many personal care providers have not made that
23 transition yet?
24 SENATOR KRUEGER: So I was told
25 earlier that the State Department of Health is
1890
1 putting updated data on their website every day.
2 Do we have any updated number?
3 (Pause while conferring.)
4 SENATOR KRUEGER: As of April 4th,
5 although that's a few days ago, approximately
6 180,000 had made transition. Plus 60,000 have
7 moved off of CDPAP into more traditional personal
8 care services.
9 (Pause while conferring.)
10 SENATOR KRUEGER: See, it takes a
11 village.
12 In New York City and Western
13 New York, 90 percent in total have made the
14 transition now. And in the rest of the state,
15 95 percent have made the transition. So
16 apparently we're moving forward significantly
17 more quickly than we were.
18 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you,
19 Senator.
20 Mr. President, if the Senator will
21 continue to yield.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
23 sponsor yield?
24 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
1891
1 sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR O'MARA: Correct me if I'm
3 wrong, but didn't we approve this change to CDPAP
4 in last year's budget?
5 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, we did,
6 Mr. President.
7 SENATOR O'MARA: Through you,
8 Mr. President, if the Senator will continue to
9 yield.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
11 sponsor yield?
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR O'MARA: Since there's been
16 general and widespread opposition to this from
17 members of this body, why is that not being
18 interjected into the discussions in this budget?
19 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
20 Mr. President. While there has been widespread
21 concern about the transition not having been
22 thought through perhaps carefully enough and not
23 moving as quickly as expected, there has been
24 consistent concern raised by both sides of the
25 aisle, both houses, that we needed to do
1892
1 extensions to make sure we got everybody taken
2 care of and nobody left out there hanging.
3 The court cases, in fact, have been
4 of value in delaying the process to make sure
5 that transition can move correctly. And based on
6 the data I just offered that now in most of the
7 state 95 percent of people have transitioned, and
8 in New York City and Western New York -- which
9 are, granted, big portions of the state --
10 90 percent have.
11 And of course the deadline was
12 supposed to be April 1st, and now it has moved
13 forward to May 15th. And if you just look at the
14 math about how quickly they are moving now, I
15 suspect we will meet the May 15th deadline.
16 I also suspect that a court will
17 insert themselves again if we haven't, because
18 they seem to be pretty consistent at this point.
19 So I'm not sure why we would need to
20 address it in this year's budget negotiations.
21 SENATOR O'MARA: Through you,
22 Mr. President, if the Senator will continue to
23 yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
25 sponsor yield?
1893
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR O'MARA: I think a lot of
5 the opposition was due to the fact that it's a
6 single fiscal intermediary, this PPL, on that
7 going forward, and that's been one of the major
8 concerns. So I would think that we would want to
9 be potentially addressing that.
10 But just to clarify, and to finish
11 on this topic, during this extension period till
12 May 15th, those that have not made the
13 transition, are they getting paid regularly as
14 they were before?
15 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
16 SENATOR HELMING: (Mic off.) No.
17 SENATOR O'MARA: Someone disagrees
18 over here.
19 Thank you, Senator Krueger. That's
20 all I have, Mr. President.
21 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you,
22 Senator O'Mara.
23 Are there any other Senators wishing
24 to be heard?
25 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
1894
1 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
2 Read the last section.
3 Excuse me. Senator Gianaris.
4 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
5 we've agreed to restore this to the
6 noncontroversial calendar.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Upon
8 consent, the bill has been restored to the
9 noncontroversial calendar.
10 The Secretary will read.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
14 roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
17 the results.
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
20 is passed.
21 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
22 reading of today's supplemental calendar.
23 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
24 as we adjourn, I want to remind my colleagues in
25 the Majority that there will be an immediate
1895
1 conference in Room 332 after session.
2 And with that, is there any further
3 business at the desk?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Majority
5 conference immediately after session in Room 332.
6 There is no further business at the
7 desk, Senator Gianaris.
8 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to adjourn
9 until Tuesday, April 15th, at 11:00 a.m., with
10 the intervening days being legislative days.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: On
12 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
13 Tuesday, April 15th, at 11:00 a.m., with the
14 intervening days being legislative.
15 (Whereupon, at 11:42 a.m., the
16 Senate adjourned.)
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