Regular Session - April 24, 2025
2016
1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
2
3
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
5
6
7
8
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 April 24, 2025
11 11:42 a.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
15
16
17
18 SENATOR SHELLEY B. MAYER, Acting President
19 ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary
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24
25
2017
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The Senate
3 will come to order.
4 I ask everyone to please rise and
5 recite the Pledge of Allegiance.
6 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited
7 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: In the
9 absence of clergy, let us bow our heads in a
10 moment of silent reflection or prayer.
11 (Whereupon, the assemblage respected
12 a moment of silence.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Reading of
14 the Journal.
15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
16 Wednesday, April 23, 2025, the Senate met
17 pursuant to adjournment. The Journal of Tuesday,
18 April 22, 2025, was read and approved. On
19 motion, the Senate adjourned.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Without
21 objection, the Journal stands approved as read.
22 Presentation of petitions.
23 Messages from the Assembly.
24 Messages from the Governor.
25 Reports of standing committees.
2018
1 Reports of select committees.
2 Communications and reports from
3 state officers.
4 Motions and resolutions.
5 Senator Gianaris.
6 SENATOR GIANARIS: Madam President,
7 there will be an immediate meeting of the
8 Rules Committee in Room 332.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: There will
10 be an immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in
11 Room 332.
12 SENATOR GIANARIS: The Senate
13 stands at ease.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The Senate
15 will stand at ease.
16 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease
17 at 11:43 a.m.)
18 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at
19 11:47 a.m.)
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The Senate
21 will return to order.
22 Senator Gianaris.
23 SENATOR GIANARIS: Madam President,
24 there's a report of the Rules Committee at the
25 desk. Please take that up.
2019
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
2 Secretary will read.
3 THE SECRETARY: Senator
4 Stewart-Cousins, from the Committee on Rules,
5 reports the following bills:
6 Senate Print 7230, by
7 Senator Comrie, an act to amend the
8 Abandoned Property Law;
9 Senate Print 7320, by
10 Senator Kavanagh, an act to amend the
11 Executive Law and the State Finance Law;
12 Senate Print 7526, by
13 Senator Martinez, an act in relation to enacting
14 the private activity bond allocation act of 2025;
15 Senate Print 7631, by
16 Senator Krueger, an act making appropriations for
17 the support of government.
18 All bills reported direct to third
19 reading.
20 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
21 the report of the Rules Committee.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: All those
23 in favor of accepting the report of the
24 Rules Committee please signify by saying aye.
25 (Response of "Aye.")
2020
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Opposed,
2 nay.
3 (No response.)
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The report
5 of the Rules Committee is accepted.
6 Senator Gianaris.
7 SENATOR GIANARIS: Please take up
8 the supplemental calendar.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
10 Secretary will read.
11 There's a substitution at the desk.
12 The Secretary will read.
13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Krueger
14 moves to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
15 Assembly Bill Number 8068 and substitute it for
16 the identical Senate Bill 7631, Third Reading
17 Calendar 693.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:
19 Substitution so ordered.
20 The Secretary will read.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 693, Assembly Bill Number 8068, by
23 Assemblymember Pretlow, an act making
24 appropriations for the support of government.
25 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there a
2021
1 message of necessity and appropriation at the
2 desk?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: There is a
4 message of necessity and appropriation at the
5 desk.
6 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
7 the message.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: All those
9 in favor of accepting the message please signify
10 by saying aye.
11 (Response of "Aye.")
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Opposed,
13 nay.
14 (No response.)
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
16 message is accepted, and the bill is before the
17 house.
18 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
20 is laid aside.
21 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
22 reading of the supplemental calendar.
23 SENATOR GIANARIS: Please take up
24 controversial calendar number one.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
2022
1 Secretary will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 693, Assembly Bill Number 8068, by
4 Assemblymember Pretlow, an act making
5 appropriations for the support of government.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
7 O'Mara, why do you rise?
8 SENATOR O'MARA: Yes, thank you,
9 Mr. President {sic}.
10 Would Senator Krueger yield for some
11 questions.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
13 Krueger, do you yield?
14 SENATOR KRUEGER: I shall.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
16 Senator yields.
17 SENATOR O'MARA: Welcome back,
18 Senator. It's good to have you back here.
19 Where can you tell us we stand today
20 as far as getting a final budget here?
21 SENATOR KRUEGER: So today we have
22 another extender, and it goes through next
23 Tuesday.
24 And I was just reading about the
25 federal government's record of operating under
2023
1 continuing resolutions or extenders. And since
2 fiscal year '77 they've actually operated under
3 continuing resolutions for as long as three
4 years. So we're nothing near where the federal
5 government has been or may be again.
6 But I can't tell you that we're
7 necessarily that close to closing this one down.
8 SENATOR O'MARA: Through you,
9 Madam President, will the Senator continue to
10 yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
12 continue to yield?
13 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
15 Senator yields.
16 SENATOR O'MARA: This extender
17 today is adding how much in appropriations in
18 addition to what we've already done?
19 SENATOR KRUEGER: This bill
20 provides 11.3 billion in appropriation authority
21 to meet payroll costs and to allow certain
22 payments of general state charges -- Department
23 of Health, Department of Labor, Office for People
24 with Developmental Disabilities, Department of
25 Veterans' Affairs.
2024
1 And compared to the prior extender,
2 this bill provides 1.6 billion in additional
3 appropriation authority.
4 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you.
5 Madam President, if the Senator will
6 continue to yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
8 continue to yield?
9 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
11 Senator yields.
12 SENATOR O'MARA: And that's for
13 like five days. So our rate of daily
14 expenditures in this extender is a lot lower than
15 the other ones that we've done previously. So
16 that's neither here nor there.
17 But, you know, still we're reading
18 that this budget is being held up by the various
19 policy issues. Can you tell us where we stand in
20 relation to the big four of discovery,
21 involuntary commitment, masks and cellphones?
22 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
23 Madam President. I think like everyone else in
24 this room, I work off press reports. But I do
25 think people have made an agreement on the
2025
1 cellphone issue.
2 Based on statements made by
3 leadership at the end of last week, it seems like
4 discovery was agreed upon. But maybe not now,
5 because you hear different things different days.
6 There seems to be news of a newer
7 version of a mask legislation as some kind of
8 supplemental penalty to other crimes.
9 And I don't even remember what the
10 fourth one is. Sorry. Say that again, please?
11 SENATOR O'MARA: You mentioned
12 discovery?
13 SENATOR KRUEGER: I did mention
14 discovery.
15 SENATOR O'MARA: Involuntary
16 commitment, masks and cellphones.
17 SENATOR KRUEGER: Ah, involuntary
18 commitment, thank you.
19 I believe that we continue
20 discussions about involuntary commitment with, I
21 know speaking for my colleagues, heavy focus on
22 assuring that we have the adequate services
23 available to people who are mentally ill and need
24 the services.
25 And we even learned recently of one
2026
1 hospital that's being penalized for refusing to
2 provide services and reopen their psychiatric
3 beds, while doing some fairly disturbing things
4 to people.
5 And there's more and more data about
6 people seeking help and being told that depending
7 on what county they live on -- live in, excuse
8 me, that there can be waitlists for as long as
9 two years to get the services they're seeking.
10 So we absolutely agree, mental
11 health services for people in desperate need who
12 may in fact be at risk of harming themselves or
13 others needs to be a critical priority. I think
14 we are taking it as a critical priority.
15 But we are very focused on making
16 sure that when we come to an agreement within
17 this budget we're actually going to be delivering
18 the services that are needed in our communities.
19 SENATOR O'MARA: Through you,
20 Mr. President {sic}, if the Senator will continue
21 to yield.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
23 continue to yield?
24 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
2027
1 Senator yields.
2 SENATOR O'MARA: I think at this
3 point, at least for our local school districts,
4 we're kind of past the point of no return for
5 them finalizing their budgets for a May 15th
6 vote.
7 As we discussed a week or so ago
8 about giving them some assurance about what at
9 least the baseline would be, that -- that was
10 never done. So our school districts are
11 proceeding with budgets that I believe were
12 finalized at their board meetings this week, by
13 and large, and will go to the public on May 15th
14 without really knowing what their state aid is
15 going to be.
16 So, you know, while the -- while the
17 federal government may run years on end with
18 continuing resolutions, that's not how we do
19 things in the State of New York. We actually
20 have to balance our budget and not just keep
21 adding debt.
22 So, you know, what -- what should we
23 tell our school districts at this point on these
24 budgets that they now have in place for a vote?
25 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
2028
1 Madam President. Usually I would refer that
2 question to you, as our Education chair, but of
3 course you're up there today.
4 But based on our other
5 conversations, I think that you would say or that
6 I will say we agree on this issue. We think the
7 Governor should have sent some kind of messaging
8 or even something within one of her extenders
9 clarifying the expectation of school funding in a
10 final budget.
11 I think if I was asked that question
12 by a local school district I would say: You
13 should work off the numbers that were in the
14 Executive Budget. Which were increases for
15 everyone, but not enough. We put in more money.
16 But I would suggest that they start
17 at the base of what the Governor's Executive
18 Budget is for their coming year. And let's hope
19 we can push that up somewhat and give them
20 opportunities to enrich their budget program
21 after we know something for sure.
22 You may not -- I'm sorry, through
23 you, I cannot ask the President Pro Tem to
24 comment on it at this point.
25 SENATOR O'MARA: Fair enough.
2029
1 Thank you, Madam President. Will
2 the Senator continue to yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
4 continue to yield?
5 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
7 Senator yields.
8 SENATOR O'MARA: I think we're
9 approaching about nine days now till the
10 Kentucky Derby.
11 (Laughter.)
12 SENATOR O'MARA: What are your odds
13 on getting a final budget next week or even
14 before the white smoke appears for our next pope?
15 (Laughter.)
16 SENATOR KRUEGER: So through you,
17 Madam President, I think most people in this room
18 know I don't actually support gambling --
19 (Laughter.)
20 SENATOR KRUEGER: -- and I won't be
21 betting on the Kentucky Derby.
22 But we were just talking right
23 before session about what I thought was a bit of
24 a disturbing announcement that there are people
25 taking bets on who the next pope will be, and
2030
1 even giving odds to individuals. Which I also
2 thought, although I'm not Catholic, that was a
3 tad sacrilegious, and maybe this gambling thing's
4 gone too far.
5 So I will not take a bet on whether
6 we get this budget done next week or not, as much
7 as I would like to be able to say that would be
8 very nice to get it done next week.
9 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you,
10 Mr. President {sic}. Thank you, Senator Krueger.
11 Just on the bill briefly,
12 Madam President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
14 O'Mara on the bill.
15 SENATOR O'MARA: You know, we're
16 approaching -- next week we'll be one month late
17 on this budget. You know, we think it's
18 important to get a budget as timely as possible.
19 It seems that this budget is being
20 held up pretty much entirely on these policy
21 issues that we keep talking about and seem to be
22 making no progress on.
23 You know, I would just encourage
24 everybody to buckle down and let's come to a
25 resolution on these or throw them off the table
2031
1 altogether to get this budget done. Because it
2 is very important for so many areas of government
3 spending, primarily our school districts at this
4 point, this juncture, anyways.
5 So, you know, it's time we get this
6 done. And, you know, I will be supporting this
7 extender today, but I don't know that I will be
8 in the future. Given no signs of progress,
9 perhaps we need the pressure of a government
10 shutdown to get people off the dime and to
11 actually come to a resolution on this budget.
12 Thank you, Madam President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
14 Helming, why do you rise?
15 SENATOR HELMING: Thank you,
16 Madam President.
17 If Senator Krueger would yield for a
18 few questions.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
20 Krueger, do you yield?
21 SENATOR KRUEGER: I certainly will,
22 Madam President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
24 Senator yields.
25 SENATOR HELMING: Thank you,
2032
1 Senator Krueger.
2 Senator Krueger, on the question
3 regarding school funding -- and we know, as
4 Senator O'Mara said, we're past that point. The
5 schools have to get their budget materials
6 printed, get it mailed out, and hold their votes
7 soon.
8 Your recommendation was that our
9 school districts use the funding that was
10 identified in the Governor's budget. So my
11 question is, are you recommending that because
12 you feel that's where we're going to land with
13 school funding?
14 SENATOR KRUEGER: No,
15 Madam President. I was suggesting that in the
16 absence of knowing where we are going to land in
17 a final budget -- and the Senate and the Assembly
18 proposed additional money for public education,
19 but since we don't know what that reality is, if
20 I was working for a school board, I would
21 personally say, Let's take the most conservative
22 estimate we know we have, which is what the
23 Governor's Executive Budget proposal was -- which
24 I believe did increase all school districts some
25 amount of money -- and I would work off of that.
2033
1 And if in fact when we finalize the
2 budget we are able to provide additional
3 education money, that those local school boards
4 could then make their decisions on how they
5 wanted to enrich their budgets beyond what they
6 knew the facts on at this time.
7 Because I also agreed with
8 Senator O'Mara that it would have been far better
9 to get some more clarification from the Executive
10 prior to this date. But we don't control that,
11 and we did not.
12 So again, I suppose a school board
13 could decide to take a leap that they believe
14 there will be more and they're going to budget
15 for that. I think it would be a bigger problem
16 for them to have to reverse themselves, as
17 opposed to my suggestion that they work off the
18 Governor's Executive Budget as their baseline
19 assumption and then can be happy with some kind
20 of enrichment money if in fact we are successful
21 in getting that.
22 SENATOR HELMING: On the bill,
23 please.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
25 Helming on the bill.
2034
1 SENATOR HELMING: Thank you.
2 Senator Krueger, thank you so much.
3 That is what I thought, that that was just your
4 conservative recommendation.
5 I never thought I'd be saying
6 "Senator Krueger" and "conservative" in the same
7 sentence --
8 (Laughter.)
9 SENATOR HELMING: -- but whatever.
10 But I appreciate that,
11 Senator Krueger, because -- and Senator Mayer,
12 you've heard this from me many times -- my school
13 districts, the majority of them, more than
14 66 percent -- and I represent something like
15 37 school districts -- got the very minimum
16 amount of increase. The lowest amount possible,
17 2 percent.
18 And when you look at that increase
19 and you compare it to the cost of utility
20 increases, healthcare costs have gone up,
21 building costs, the materials, labor, everything
22 has increased -- that 2 percent is not
23 sufficient.
24 So I am hoping that the Majority
25 and -- the three people in the room, I should
2035
1 say, negotiating this budget take that into
2 consideration, that our school districts,
3 including all of our rural, smaller school
4 districts, they deserve their fair share of
5 funding as well.
6 Thank you, Madam President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Thank you,
8 Senator Helming.
9 Are there any other Senators wishing
10 to be heard?
11 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
12 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
13 Read the last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
20 Weik to explain her vote.
21 SENATOR WEIK: Thank you,
22 Madam President.
23 Today is April 24th, as we have
24 established. It is the eighth extender that
25 we're doing. We are not the federal government,
2036
1 and we represent the people of New York State, so
2 I'm not sure why we keep referring or deflecting
3 to national issues once again.
4 And again, there are no real reports
5 on any significant movement on the budget
6 discussions. So what on earth has been going on
7 for the last 24 days, let alone why weren't we
8 prepared to have an on-time budget? And of
9 course we haven't had an on-time budget for
10 several years now.
11 It's our job not only to vote on
12 legislation but to produce an on-time budget for
13 the people of the State of New York. That hasn't
14 been done. It's late once again. It's time to
15 do our job.
16 And because of that, I vote no.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
18 Weik to be recorded in the negative.
19 Announce the results.
20 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
21 Calendar 693, voting in the negative are
22 Senators Lanza and Weik.
23 Ayes, 49. Nays, 2.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
25 is passed.
2037
1 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
2 reading of the supplemental calendar.
3 SENATOR GIANARIS: Thank you,
4 Madam President.
5 Let's move on to the calendar.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
7 Secretary will read.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 133, Senate Print 1328, by Senator Parker, an act
10 to amend the Public Service Law.
11 SENATOR GIANARIS: Lay it aside for
12 the day.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
14 is laid aside for the day.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 366, Senate Print 1116, by Senator Gounardes, an
17 act to amend the Executive Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Read the
19 last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Call the
23 roll.
24 (The Secretary called the roll.)
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Announce
2038
1 the results.
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
4 is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 457, Senate Print 4685A, by Senator Stavisky, an
7 act to amend the Education Law.
8 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
10 is laid aside.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 503, Senate Print 3831, by Senator Hoylman-Sigal,
13 an act to amend the Penal Law.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Read the
15 last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect on the first of November.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Call the
19 roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Announce
22 the results.
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
25 is passed.
2039
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 631, Senate Print 491, by Senator Fernandez, an
3 act to amend the Executive Law.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Read the
5 last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Announce
12 the results.
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 649, Senate Print 1099, by Senator May, an act to
18 amend the Education Law.
19 SENATOR SERRANO: Lay it aside for
20 the day.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
22 is laid aside for the day.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 661, Senate Print 1062, by Senator Serrano, an
25 act to amend the Arts and Cultural Affairs Law.
2040
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Read the
2 last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect on the 120th day after it
5 shall have become a law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Call the
7 roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
10 Serrano to explain his vote.
11 SENATOR SERRANO: Thank you very
12 much, Madam President.
13 This bill, as we know, is important
14 to support the arts and culture throughout the
15 State of New York. We all understand how
16 important the arts and culture are to the economy
17 of New York, to our way of life. In many ways
18 it's foundational to our society.
19 This bill will help the State of
20 New York to create criteria to have arts and
21 cultural districts all across the state. This
22 will help organically growing cultural
23 districts -- where you have artists, cultural
24 institutions and organizations -- to organize, to
25 have guidelines developed by the State of
2041
1 New York to help them get the technical
2 assistance they need to grow and to do all the
3 wonderful things that we know that the arts and
4 culture do in our communities.
5 So I'm very grateful for the
6 support. I've been hearing a lot of support out
7 in the community for this legislation. I'm
8 hopeful that we could get it done this year, but
9 very grateful to all of my colleagues for
10 supporting this bill.
11 Thank you.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
13 Serrano to be recorded in the affirmative.
14 Announce the results.
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
17 is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 667, Senate Print 1424, by Senator Liu, an act to
20 amend the Education Law.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Read the
22 last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
24 act shall take effect immediately.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Call the
2042
1 roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Announce
4 the results.
5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
7 is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 675, Senate Print 205, by Senator Martinez, an
10 act to amend the Penal Law.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Read the
12 last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Announce
19 the results.
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
22 is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 676, Senate Print 1694, by Senator Skoufis, an
25 act to amend the Penal Law.
2043
1 SENATOR SERRANO: Lay it aside for
2 the day.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
4 is laid aside for the day.
5 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
6 reading of the calendar.
7 SENATOR SERRANO: Thank you. Can
8 we --
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Oh, sorry,
10 Senator Serrano.
11 SENATOR SERRANO: That's quite all
12 right.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: I didn't
14 look up. My fault.
15 SENATOR SERRANO: Thank you. Can
16 we go to the controversial calendar.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
18 Secretary will ring the bell.
19 The Secretary will read.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 457, Senate Print 4685A, by Senator Stavisky, an
22 act to amend the Education Law.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
24 Borrello, why do you rise?
25 SENATOR BORRELLO: Good
2044
1 afternoon -- yeah, afternoon now,
2 Madam President. Would the sponsor yield for a
3 question, please.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
5 Stavisky, do you yield?
6 SENATOR STAVISKY: I yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
8 Senator yields.
9 SENATOR BORRELLO: Through you,
10 Madam President.
11 Good afternoon, Senator Stavisky.
12 So this bill would add a faculty
13 member at a community college to the board of
14 trustees. Now, we know that the board of
15 trustees discusses things like salary,
16 compensation, discipline. How is this not
17 inherently a conflict of interest to have a
18 faculty member -- the only actually paid member
19 now -- on the board of trustees at community
20 colleges?
21 SENATOR STAVISKY: Through you,
22 Madam President. First of all, we already have a
23 student nonvoting member of the community
24 college. And this applies only to the SUNY -- 30
25 or so SUNY community colleges.
2045
1 Secondly, we recently added the
2 position of president of the University Faculty
3 Senate to the SUNY Trustees -- again, as a
4 nonvoting member.
5 This is part of the policy of
6 inclusiveness. And the faculty member, chosen by
7 the faculty and the staff, would be a nonvoting
8 member.
9 If matters are discussed -- and you
10 outlined them, salary, et cetera -- presumably
11 that would be in closed session. There are
12 statutes already in existence concerning the
13 General Municipal Law and the Public Officers Law
14 which provide very serious sanctions against
15 disclosure. For example, the faculty member
16 could lose his or her position. The person could
17 be charged with a misdemeanor. And there's a
18 heavy fine in addition.
19 So we're just trying to level that
20 playing field and include as many people as
21 possible. We've never had a problem with
22 conflicts of interest. And I don't anticipate
23 any problems now because, quite frankly, the
24 penalty is rather stringent.
25 SENATOR BORRELLO: Madam President,
2046
1 will the sponsor continue to yield?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
3 continue to yield? Senator Stavisky, do you
4 continue to yield?
5 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes, I'm sorry.
6 Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
8 Senator yields.
9 SENATOR BORRELLO: Yes. Through
10 you, Madam President.
11 Well, thank you for that
12 explanation. Can you point to the language with
13 regard to recusal and also penalties that are in
14 this particular bill? Not the -- you know, not
15 the one that has to do with the four-year schools
16 of SUNY.
17 Is there actually language in this
18 bill that talks to the severe penalties you just
19 mentioned and the requirement of recusal?
20 SENATOR STAVISKY: (Conferring.) I
21 already indicated that violations of the
22 Public Officers Law and the General Municipal Law
23 do provide penalties for the violation.
24 SENATOR BORRELLO: Madam President,
25 does the sponsor continue to yield?
2047
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
2 continue to yield?
3 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Yes, the
5 Senator yields.
6 SENATOR BORRELLO: So there's no
7 language in this bill. You're talking about
8 referring to the Public Officers Law and the
9 General Municipal Law.
10 However, you know, these folks are
11 obviously protected by union representation. I'm
12 not sure that those laws would necessarily
13 provide to them being a member of this board.
14 So what you're saying is there's no
15 specific language in this bill that deals with
16 penalties for violations of confidentiality and,
17 you know, having to do specifically with recusing
18 themselves with things that have to do with
19 things that directly impact them.
20 SENATOR STAVISKY: Quite the
21 contrary. I'm saying that there are penalties.
22 And the amendment to the A print of
23 the bill specifies the relationship back to the
24 General Municipal Law and the Public Authorities
25 Law.
2048
1 And this would obviously apply to
2 the students as well. So we certainly don't want
3 to lose a student as part of the community
4 college trustee consortium.
5 SENATOR BORRELLO: Madam President,
6 will the sponsor continue to yield?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
8 continue to yield?
9 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
11 Senator yields.
12 SENATOR BORRELLO: So for the
13 faculty representative at, you know, the SUNY
14 four-year colleges, it's very specific. It's the
15 president, I believe you said, of the
16 organization that represents the faculty.
17 But in this case I don't see a
18 mechanism or a specific person. Who decides who
19 that representative will be from the faculty, the
20 staff, on the board of trustees?
21 SENATOR STAVISKY: There would be a
22 vote -- through you, Madam President, there would
23 be a vote of the faculty and staff working at
24 that particular institution. Same manner that
25 the student is selected.
2049
1 SENATOR BORRELLO: Madam President,
2 will the sponsor continue to yield?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
4 continue to yield?
5 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
7 Senator yields.
8 SENATOR BORRELLO: Well, I don't
9 see an actual mechanism where it says a vote. It
10 just said that it will be chosen by those folks.
11 It doesn't necessarily mean it has
12 to be a vote, right?
13 SENATOR STAVISKY: No, there would
14 be a vote. I'm sorry. Madam President, through
15 you, there would have to be a vote.
16 And the bill was pretty clear before
17 we amended it, but because of questions that have
18 arisen by one particular group, we said, Let's
19 try to make it a little bit clearer. And that's
20 the reason for the A print.
21 SENATOR BORRELLO: Madam President,
22 will the sponsor continue to yield?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
24 continue to yield?
25 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes.
2050
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
2 Senator yields.
3 SENATOR BORRELLO: So obviously the
4 trustees will be discussing sensitive topics like
5 I mentioned previously. Will they -- will the --
6 will this staff representative, who obviously
7 is -- you know, salaries and so forth will be
8 discussed, will they be allowed into executive
9 session when the board of trustees goes into
10 executive session?
11 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes.
12 SENATOR BORRELLO: Madam President,
13 will the sponsor continue to yield?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
15 continue to yield?
16 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Yes, the
18 Senator yields.
19 SENATOR BORRELLO: You don't think
20 that's an inherent conflict of interest to allow
21 them to go into executive session?
22 SENATOR STAVISKY: Well, it would
23 be the same conflict for a student also. Or for
24 anybody who has any relationship.
25 The penalties are there. They were
2051
1 already there before this bill was even
2 introduced. So we've never had a problem, as far
3 as we know, with people breaking the rule of
4 confidentiality.
5 SENATOR BORRELLO: Madam President,
6 will the sponsor continue to yield?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
8 continue to yield?
9 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
11 Senator yields.
12 SENATOR BORRELLO: Well, I think,
13 you know, a student obviously is a little
14 different than a paid faculty member who's
15 protected by a union organization that's going
16 into a executive session to be discussing very
17 sensitive topics. It will be the only person in
18 that room that uniquely is actually potentially
19 impacted by the discussions in executive session.
20 So I -- again, I ask, what defines
21 the penalty should they breach that
22 confidentiality of that executive session?
23 SENATOR STAVISKY: First of all --
24 through you, Madam President -- the student faces
25 something just as bad, and that's it can affect
2052
1 their college career, their grades, et cetera --
2 recommendations for future employment.
3 The penalty is there. It's always
4 been there. It was there for any ex officio
5 member -- any member, in fact, who breaks the
6 rules of confidentiality. It's true of the SUNY
7 trustees as well as other college trustees.
8 SENATOR BORRELLO: Madam President,
9 on the bill.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
11 Borrello on the bill.
12 SENATOR BORRELLO: First of all,
13 thank you, Senator Stavisky, for engaging on
14 these questions today.
15 You know, I think the issue I have
16 with this is that our SUNY college campuses,
17 whether they're four-year or two-year, they have
18 a lot of strains right now -- financial strains
19 and so forth. They're losing student population.
20 And one of the biggest challenges they have is
21 being able to pay their staff.
22 We here in -- somehow here in
23 Albany, we negotiate the contracts, then we go
24 back to our SUNY campuses and say, Okay, now
25 you've got to pay for it, figure out a way to pay
2053
1 for it.
2 Now we're going to add to the board
3 of trustees someone who is part of that
4 compensation package and where they are
5 negotiating and trying to decide how they're
6 going to impact and keep these campuses solvent
7 and continue to do the mission of educating our
8 children -- they're going to have to wrangle with
9 the fact that they have someone who has a direct
10 conflict of interest sitting in the room, even in
11 executive session, to discuss the most sensitive
12 topics to ensure that this college campus can
13 make the tough decisions when necessary. And
14 that board of trustees, who are unpaid, can make
15 that tough decision to make sure that those
16 campuses can continue, can continue to provide
17 the services to the most important person on that
18 campus, and that's the students.
19 So I understand why there's a
20 student on there. I'm not sure why we want to
21 add a member of the faculty, a paid member of the
22 faculty, who will be there for all the
23 discussions, even confidential discussions, on
24 things that impact themselves and their fellow
25 colleagues, the paid members of the staff.
2054
1 So for that reason, I'm a no on
2 this. I understand the intent and I appreciate
3 that you want to broaden the spectrum of who's on
4 that board of trustees. But at the end of the
5 day I just think this bill is too vague and too
6 broad and too many conflicts of interest. So
7 I'll be voting no.
8 Thank you, Madam President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Are there
10 any other Senators wishing to be heard?
11 Seeing and hearing none, debate --
12 Senator Stavisky?
13 SENATOR STAVISKY: All right, I'll
14 explain my vote.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Very good.
16 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
17 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
18 Read the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect immediately.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
22 Serrano.
23 SENATOR SERRANO: I'm sorry,
24 Madam President. Upon consent, we've agreed to
25 restore this bill to the noncontroversial
2055
1 calendar.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
3 is restored to the noncontroversial calendar.
4 Call the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
7 Stavisky to explain her vote.
8 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you,
9 Madam President.
10 And Senator Borrello, thank you for
11 your questions.
12 We believe that SUNY -- and CUNY,
13 for that matter, but it obviously applies to --
14 this bill applies to SUNY -- is a marvelous
15 opportunity for students of various economic
16 means, ethnicity, geography, every area possible
17 to receive a terrific education at a fair price.
18 Students from some colleges graduate
19 heavily in debt. Students at SUNY and CUNY do
20 not. The tuition is reasonable, and they get a
21 perfect education as a result.
22 Now, if the objections stated were
23 enacted, you would have to remove the SUNY
24 Faculty Senate representative, same situation.
25 And I believe that we've got to be more inclusive
2056
1 to open the opportunities not just economically
2 and educationally, but also in terms of the
3 governance of the colleges and universities. And
4 this is the opportunity to do so.
5 And so, Madam President, I vote aye.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
7 Stavisky to be recorded in the affirmative.
8 Announce the results.
9 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
10 Calendar 457, those Senators voting in the
11 negative are Senators Borrello, Chan, Fahy,
12 Griffo, Lanza, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Rhoads
13 and Weik.
14 Ayes, 41. Nays, 10.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
16 is passed.
17 Senator Serrano, that completes the
18 reading of the controversial calendar.
19 SENATOR SERRANO: Is there any
20 further business at the desk?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: There is
22 no further business at the desk.
23 SENATOR SERRANO: I move to adjourn
24 until Monday, April 28th, at 3:00 p.m., with the
25 intervening days being legislative days.
2057
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: On motion,
2 the Senate stands adjourned until Monday,
3 April 28th, at 3:00 p.m., with the intervening
4 days being legislative days.
5 (Whereupon, at 12:19 p.m., the
6 Senate adjourned.)
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