Regular Session - April 28, 2025

                                                                   2061

 1                NEW YORK STATE SENATE

 2                          

 3                          

 4               THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

 5                          

 6                          

 7                          

 8                          

 9                  ALBANY, NEW YORK

10                   April 28, 2025

11                      3:34 p.m.

12                          

13                          

14                   REGULAR SESSION

15  

16  

17  

18  SENATOR ROXANNE J. PERSAUD, Acting President

19  ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary

20  

21  

22  

23  

24  

25  


                                                               2062

 1                P R O C E E D I N G S

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

 3    Senate will come to order.  

 4                 I ask everyone to please rise and 

 5    recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

 6                 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 

 7    the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Pastor 

 9    Kim L. Singletary, of the Overcomers Ministries 

10    International Church in Hudson, New York, will 

11    deliver today's invocation.  

12                 Pastor?

13                 PASTOR SINGLETARY:   Let us pray.

14                 Almighty God, eternal source of 

15    wisdom and justice, we gather today in these 

16    esteemed chambers mindful of the profound 

17    responsibility entrusted to each member of this 

18    Senate.  

19                 We ask Your guidance when they 

20    deliberate and legislate matters that shape the 

21    lives of millions across our great state and also 

22    our nation.

23                 Grant the grace of clarity of 

24    thought, compassion in judgement and courage in 

25    decision-making.  May their debates be marked by 


                                                               2063

 1    respect and their decisions by integrity, always 

 2    aiming to serve the common good.  

 3                 In a state enriched by diverse 

 4    cultures, beliefs and perspectives, help us to 

 5    honor that diversity, fostering unity without 

 6    conformity.  

 7                 Let our actions reflect the highest 

 8    ideals of public service, promoting justice, 

 9    equity and peace for all New Yorkers.  May this 

10    session be guided by wisdom, our laws be just, 

11    and our service be selfless.

12                 We ask for Your blessing upon this 

13    Senate, our Governor and governing bodies, our 

14    state and all its people.  

15                 Amen.

16                 (Response of "Amen.")

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Reading 

18    of the Journal.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   In Senate, Friday, 

20    April 25, 2025, the Senate met pursuant to 

21    adjournment.  The Journal of Thursday, April 24, 

22    2025, was read and approved.  On motion, the 

23    Senate adjourned.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Without 

25    objection, the Journal stands approved as read.


                                                               2064

 1                 Presentation of petitions.

 2                 Messages from the Assembly.

 3                 Messages from the Governor.

 4                 Reports of standing committees.

 5                 Reports of select committees.

 6                 Communications and reports from 

 7    state officers.

 8                 Motions and resolutions.

 9                 Senator Gianaris.

10                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Good afternoon, 

11    Madam President.  

12                 We're going to begin today by taking 

13    up previously adopted Resolution 234, by 

14    Senator Sepúlveda.  Please read that resolution's 

15    title and call on Senator Sepúlveda.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

17    Secretary will read.

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Resolution 234, by 

19    Senator Sepúlveda, memorializing Governor Kathy 

20    Hochul to proclaim April 14, 2025, as 

21    Bangla New Year Day in the State of New York.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

23    Sepúlveda on the resolution.

24                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Thank you, 

25    Madam President, for allowing me to speak on this 


                                                               2065

 1    resolution honoring the Bangladeshi community.  

 2                 It's truly an honor to bring up the 

 3    resolution as we gather to celebrate the Bengali 

 4    New Year, Pohela Boishakh, which occurred on 

 5    April 14th.  I want to extend my warmest and most 

 6    heartfelt greetings to the entire Bangladeshi 

 7    community as you celebrate this beautiful and 

 8    vibrant tradition.

 9                 The new year is a time to renew your 

10    dreams, strengthen community bonds, and look to 

11    the future with optimism and determination.  This 

12    rich Bengali heritage, with its music, art, 

13    cuisine and strong sense of community, deeply 

14    enriches the cultural diversity of our state and 

15    brings immeasurable value to our society.

16                 Today, through this resolution, we 

17    do more than mark the start of a new calendar 

18    year; we honor centuries of history, tradition 

19    and the resilient spirit that defines the Bengali 

20    identity.  Pohela Boishakh is not just a 

21    holiday -- it's a vibrant expression of culture, 

22    unity and hope.

23                 I'm deeply committed to promoting 

24    diversity, inclusion and respect for all 

25    cultures, identities and traditions that make our 


                                                               2066

 1    state such a great place to live.

 2                 In every song, in every traditional 

 3    dish, in every colorful and joyful parade we see 

 4    the soul of a people who are proud of their 

 5    heritage and full of hope for their future.

 6                 The Bangladeshi community is an 

 7    essential part of our social fabric of New York.  

 8    Through your hard work, dedication to education, 

 9    entrepreneurial spirit, and generosity, you have 

10    enriched our communities in countless ways.  From 

11    family-owned businesses and community leaders to 

12    young students and tireless workers, you embody 

13    the immigrant spirit that strengthens and 

14    inspires our state.

15                 I want to offer a special tribute to 

16    community leaders, cultural organizations, 

17    religious leaders and social organizations whose 

18    dedication makes celebrations like this possible 

19    across our city and state.  Your work is 

20    invaluable, and your impact is profound.

21                 On this occasion I would like to 

22    recognize Dr. Nazrul Islam, senior economist and 

23    vice chairman of the Muktadhara Foundation; 

24    Bishawjit Saha, founder and president of NRB 

25    Worldwide; and all our distinguished guests in 


                                                               2067

 1    the gallery who are here today to celebrate.

 2                 I close by once again thanking you 

 3    for the opportunity to share this special moment 

 4    with you.  From my office in Albany, to every 

 5    corner where your joyful songs of Pohela Boishakh 

 6    are heard, please know that you have in me a 

 7    steadfast ally and a friend for history.  

 8                 Thank you very much.  Dhonnobad!  

 9                 (Applause from galleries.)  

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

11    you, Senator.

12                 Senator Comrie on the resolution.

13                 SENATOR COMRIE:   Thank you, 

14    Madam President.  

15                 I share the Bangladeshi community 

16    with Senator Liu and Senator Stavisky in Queens.  

17                 I've been honored to work with the 

18    Bangladeshi community since before 2001 -- back 

19    in 19 -- 1985, I want to say, was my first 

20    contact with the Bangladeshi community, working 

21    with the Bangladeshi community helping to get the 

22    first Bangladeshi American elected to any school 

23    board in this city, Morshed Alam, who I still 

24    have a great relationship with.  

25                 My district is enriched by the 


                                                               2068

 1    vibrant Bangladeshi community.  Their traditions, 

 2    faith and festivals are strengthening the 

 3    cultural fabric of Southeast Queens and the 

 4    entire state.  Bangladeshi-owned businesses, from 

 5    bustling grocery stores to neighborhood 

 6    restaurants, are the cornerstone of our local 

 7    economy in many parts of Queens.  

 8                 Bangladeshi entrepreneurs not only 

 9    create jobs but keep our commercial corridors 

10    alive and thriving.  The rise of Bangladeshi 

11    civic participation in elections, community 

12    boards and advocacy shows the growing power of 

13    our immigrant communities.  

14                 Their engagement is vital to a 

15    stronger, more representative democracy.  I'm 

16    proud of the Bengali community in Queens and 

17    throughout the state.  I'm honored to rise today 

18    to support you with this resolution.

19                 Thank you, Madam President.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

21    you, Senator.  

22                 (Applause from galleries.)  

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

24    Stavisky on the resolution.

25                 SENATOR STAVISKY:   Thank you, 


                                                               2069

 1    Madam President.  

 2                 And thank you, Senator Sepúlveda, 

 3    for not just bringing the resolution but bringing 

 4    our friends from the Bangladesh community to 

 5    Albany.  

 6                 As Senator Comrie said, we have a 

 7    close relationship with the Bangladesh community 

 8    in Queens.  And I am so proud to represent so 

 9    many of them in the eastern and southern part of 

10    my district.

11                 And yes, they are a vital part of 

12    our business community, our social fabric, and 

13    everything that makes the State of New York a 

14    welcoming home for people looking for a fresh 

15    start.

16                 I'm again delighted that 

17    Senator Comrie mentioned our mutual friend 

18    Morshed Alam, because he is a leader in the 

19    Bangladesh community in Queens.  I am so proud to 

20    have known him during all of his -- I think -- 

21    campaigns.  And we wish him the best.  

22                 But the Bangladesh community is at 

23    the forefront of all things in Queens that are 

24    good.  And we welcome you, and we congratulate 

25    you on all your accomplishments but also your 


                                                               2070

 1    anniversaries.  

 2                 Thank you.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

 4    you, Senator.

 5                 (Applause from galleries.)

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 7    Bailey on the resolution.

 8                 SENATOR BAILEY:   Thank you, 

 9    Madam President.  

10                 I just want to say thank you, 

11    Senator Sepúlveda, for introducing this 

12    resolution.  

13                 It bears worth repeating every time 

14    that this auspicious day comes on that my first 

15    TV interview, when I was running for office back 

16    in 2016, was not with, quote, unquote, 

17    traditional media, it was with Bangla-speaking 

18    television.  It was with Time TV.  

19                 And so I will never forget how 

20    warmly I was greeted by the Bangla-speaking 

21    community, by the Bangladesh community within the 

22    Bronx.  Although I've been redistricted, 

23    unfortunately, out of the 204th area, you all 

24    remain in my heart, as you are continuously 

25    hardworking individuals who give to community 


                                                               2071

 1    over self all the time.  

 2                 And so I just want to say thank you 

 3    for doing what you do.  And I want to say I will 

 4    always work with you.  Even if you're not 

 5    necessarily specifically in my district, you'll 

 6    always be a part of my district in my heart.  

 7                 Dhonnobad!  

 8                 Thank you, Madam President.

 9                 (Applause from galleries.)

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

11    you.  

12                 Senator Fernandez on the resolution.

13                 SENATOR FERNANDEZ:   Thank you, 

14    Madam President.  

15                 And thank you, Senator Sepúlveda, 

16    for this resolution honoring Bangla New Year.  I 

17    rise in proud support of this.  

18                 April 14th marks Bangla New Year 

19    Day, a celebration of renewal, reflection, and 

20    hope for the future.  In Bengali tradition, the 

21    New Year is a time to set aside the burdens of 

22    the past to begin anew, with purpose, and to 

23    reaffirm the values that guide families, 

24    communities, and generations.  

25                 Here in New York the Bengali 


                                                               2072

 1    community has carried that spirit forward, 

 2    preserving language, culture, tradition and 

 3    contributing to the vitality and the diversity of 

 4    our communities and our state.  Their story 

 5    reminds us that renewal is not only an act of 

 6    celebration but an enduring commitment to 

 7    building a stronger future.  

 8                 I proudly support this resolution.

 9                 (Applause from galleries.)

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

11    you, Senator.

12                 Senator Liu on the resolution.

13                 SENATOR LIU:   Thank you, 

14    Madam President.  

15                 I want to welcome our Bangladeshi 

16    friends and community leaders to the chambers of 

17    the State Senate.  

18                 I agree with everything that my 

19    eloquent and distinguished colleagues have said 

20    already.  

21                 I thank Senator Sepúlveda on this 

22    resolution, and I urge all of our colleagues to 

23    vote yes.  Thank you.

24                 (Applause from galleries.)

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 


                                                               2073

 1    you, Senator.

 2                 To our guests, I welcome you on 

 3    behalf of the Senate.  We extend to you the 

 4    privileges and courtesies of this house.  

 5                 Please rise and be recognized.

 6                 (Extended standing ovation.)

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

 8    resolution was adopted on January 22nd.

 9                 Senator Gianaris.

10                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you, 

11    Madam President.  

12                 You know, as someone who also 

13    represents Queens, I can say that we love the 

14    Bangladeshi community so much, we're going to 

15    honor them twice here today.  

16                 (Laughter.)

17                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   So I ask you to 

18    take up privileged Resolution 812, by 

19    Senator Fernandez, read that resolution's title 

20    and recognize Senator Fernandez.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   There's 

22    a privileged resolution at the desk.  

23                 The Secretary will read.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   Resolution 812, by 

25    Senator Fernandez, memorializing Governor Kathy 


                                                               2074

 1    Hochul to proclaim March 26, 2025, as 

 2    Bangladesh Independence Day in the State of 

 3    New York.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 5    Fernandez on the resolution.

 6                 SENATOR FERNANDEZ:   Thank you, 

 7    Madam President.  

 8                 And yes, today is a double whammy.  

 9    We are calling it a celebration of Bangladesh 

10    here in Albany.  

11                 This afternoon we had an amazing 

12    event, celebrating the New Year with music, 

13    dance, cultural stories and also -- what this 

14    resolution is about, this next one -- Bangla 

15    Independence Day.  

16                 In 1971 the people of Bangladesh 

17    made history.  Against overwhelming odds, they 

18    stood up for their language, for their culture, 

19    and for the simple dignity of self-governance.  

20                 This resolution honors the bravery, 

21    the resilience of a nation born from struggle, in 

22    recognizing March 26th as Bangladesh Independence 

23    Day, a day when millions remember the sacrifices 

24    made during the fight for freedom.  And shout out 

25    to our freedom fighters that are here in Albany 


                                                               2075

 1    from the '70s and that time.

 2                 Today the people of Bangladesh were 

 3    amongst the first in the world to defend their 

 4    mother tongue as a cornerstone of national 

 5    identity.  The preservation of the Bengali 

 6    language in the face of oppression proved to be 

 7    not just a matter of words, but of pride, 

 8    heritage, and self-determination.  

 9                 Today Bangladesh stands as a proud 

10    nation:  Vibrant, dynamic, and filled with hope 

11    for the future.  

12                 I am deeply fortunate to represent a 

13    beautiful Bangladesh community -- along with 

14    Senator Sepúlveda -- in Parkchester, one of the 

15    largest in New York City.  Together we broke 

16    bread, we've tackled local issues, we've built 

17    businesses and celebrated culture.  

18                 I'm honored to be here joined by 

19    some of our dynamic leaders and our guests on the 

20    floor.  A few names to mention:  Abdus Sahid, 

21    from the Bangladesh Welfare Organization.  

22    Mamum Islam, from the Bronx Bangladeshi Community 

23    Organization.  Balil Islam, CEO of our -- one of 

24    our favorites, Golden Palace.  Nurul Islam.  

25    Md Ali.  Samad Miah, of the Bangladesh Society of 


                                                               2076

 1    the Bronx, one of the oldest organizations in the 

 2    Bronx starting this movement.  And so many more.

 3                 And I truly thank you for being here 

 4    and giving us the honor of your work, your love 

 5    for your country, and for educating us a little 

 6    more here in Albany.  You have all played such an 

 7    integral part -- and not just for the Bronx, but 

 8    for New York City and New York State -- in 

 9    celebrating our beautiful diversity.  

10                 I urge my colleagues to please 

11    support this resolution, welcome our guests here 

12    once again on the floor, and celebrate 

13    Independence Day.  

14                 Thank you.  

15                 (Applause from galleries.) 

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

17    you, Senator.

18                 Senator Bailey on the resolution.

19                 SENATOR BAILEY:   Thank you, 

20    Madam President.  

21                 I just wanted to speak on two 

22    back-to-back resolutions because it's kind of 

23    dope.  And I think -- in all seriousness, I think 

24    that from this perspective, from this view, I saw 

25    an incredibly vibrant population.  But during the 


                                                               2077

 1    round of applause on the resolution, I turned 

 2    around and see an equal amount of vibrant 

 3    Bangla-speaking Bangladeshi folks.  And to me 

 4    that means everything.  

 5                 We come from different places 

 6    throughout the state to do the business of the 

 7    people.  And, you know, like we're in April and 

 8    we're still trying to figure things out.  But one 

 9    thing that the Bangladeshi individuals have 

10    always figured out again is to make sure that 

11    they continue to weave that fabric of community 

12    together.  

13                 See, whether you're from the Bronx, 

14    whether you're from Queens or any point in 

15    between -- or from Brooklyn.  Sorry, 

16    Madam President, Brooklyn always has to be in the 

17    house as well.  But any point north, or anywhere 

18    you're at, the Bangla-speaking population is 

19    always going to continue to unite together.  

20                 So I stand here in solidarity with 

21    you for Happy New Year and Independence Day, and 

22    any other day that somebody from the Bangladeshi 

23    community is doing something continuously 

24    positive in our community.  

25                 So I vote aye on this resolution, 


                                                               2078

 1    Madam President, and I look forward to many more 

 2    years of celebration with this community.  

 3                 Thank you.  

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

 5    you.

 6                 (Applause from galleries.)

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 8    Ramos on the resolution.

 9                 SENATOR RAMOS:   Thank you, 

10    Madam President.  {In Bangla.}  

11                 (Riotous cheers, applause.)

12                 SENATOR RAMOS:   I rise -- I rise as 

13    the proud State Senator of Jackson Heights.  And 

14    having been born and raised in my community, I 

15    have seen how the Bangladesh community has grown 

16    into a vibrant force.  

17                 I'm very thankful for their 

18    friendship, for their food, for their resiliency.  

19    We know that today we're celebrating Independence 

20    Day, we're celebrating New Year's.  We might as 

21    well throw Mother Language Day in there.  Because 

22    their story is one of incredible strength and I 

23    always stand in awe of their work ethic, their 

24    sense of entrepreneurship, and their dedication 

25    to making New York even better every year.  


                                                               2079

 1                 So thank you, and congratulations to 

 2    the entire Bangladeshi community.

 3                 (Applause from galleries.)

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

 5    you.  

 6                 Senator Sepúlveda on the resolution.

 7                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Thank you, 

 8    Madam President.  

 9                 Thank you, Senator Fernandez, for 

10    bringing this resolution.  

11                 To me, it's also an honor to speak 

12    on two resolutions for the Bangladeshi community 

13    that's been such a vibrant community in my 

14    district.  Even though Senator Fernandez has the 

15    largest district now, I have such a close 

16    relationship over the years.  These are one of 

17    the very first people that endorsed me and helped 

18    me when I ran for office 15 years ago.  And so 

19    they are embedded deeply in my heart.  

20                 And they refer to me as Luis bhai.  

21    "Luis bhai" means Luis brother.  And it's an 

22    honor for me to be referred to that way in this 

23    great community.  

24                 We must remember that the Bangladesh 

25    celebration today is of great significance for 


                                                               2080

 1    the people of Bangladesh.  It's a group of 

 2    individuals with courage and determination that 

 3    achieved their independence on March 26, 1971.  

 4    This day not only marks the liberation of a 

 5    nation, but also the rebirth of an indomitable 

 6    spirit, a spirit that remains a source of 

 7    inspiration to all of us.  

 8                 Today I want to pay tribute to the 

 9    collective strength and courage of the Bangladesh 

10    people who with sacrifice and unity fought for 

11    their future, for freedom, and for justice.  In 

12    these 54 years since independence, Bangladesh has 

13    proven to be an example of resilience, overcoming 

14    challenges, and embracing progress with an 

15    unwavering commitment to development and 

16    democracy.

17                 March 26th is not only a historic 

18    date for Bangladesh, but also a day to reflect on 

19    the ideals of equality, self-determination and 

20    unity that transcends borders.  It is a day to 

21    renew our commitment to peace, justice and human 

22    rights for all, and everywhere in the world.

23                 Today we raise our voices together 

24    with the people of Bangladesh and celebrate their 

25    achievements, their culture and their history.  


                                                               2081

 1    May the spirit of Bangladesh independence 

 2    continue to light the way to a better future for 

 3    all of us where justice, equality and peace 

 4    prevails.

 5                 {In Bangla.} Dhonnobad!  

 6                 (Applause from galleries.)

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

 8    you, Senator.

 9                 Senator Myrie on the resolution.

10                 SENATOR MYRIE:   Thank you, 

11    Madam President.  

12                 I have the honor of representing 

13    Kensington, in Brooklyn, home to a thriving 

14    Bangladeshi community.  

15                 So I just wanted to express my 

16    gratitude, celebration, solidarity with this 

17    community.  You are what makes this city great, 

18    what makes this state great.  You come here for 

19    opportunity not just for your children and your 

20    families, but for the community as well.  

21                 So today we celebrate with you, we 

22    honor you, and we thank you for your 

23    contributions.

24                 Thank you.

25                 (Applause from galleries.)


                                                               2082

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

 2    you, Senator.

 3                 Senator Comrie on the resolution.

 4                 SENATOR COMRIE:   I'm going to try a 

 5    twofer also, Madam President.  

 6                 I rise to celebrate and acknowledge 

 7    the Bangladesh community, your independence and 

 8    your fight to continue to make sure that you're a 

 9    major fabric of this community.  

10                 I want to mention that I had the 

11    opportunity, thanks to Senator Sepúlveda, to 

12    visit Bangladesh a few years ago.  And I found 

13    that the spirit of independence, the spirit of 

14    entrepreneurship, the spirit of pride in the 

15    Bangladesh community stems from a community and a 

16    country that focuses on entrepreneurship, that 

17    focuses on getting things done despite 

18    differences.  

19                 In many different ways, everyone 

20    that is from Bangladesh is focusing on doing the 

21    right thing.  

22                 So I just want to congratulate you 

23    on celebrating your independence.  And please 

24    know that the Senate home is always a place for 

25    you to come to express your concerns and your 


                                                               2083

 1    desires as you fight to make sure that you 

 2    continue to show your culture, to show your 

 3    pride, and to show your dignity, so that we can 

 4    all adopt that here in this state.  

 5                 Thank you very much for being here.  

 6    Happy Independence Day.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

 8    you, Senator.

 9                 (Applause from galleries.)

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

11    question is on the resolution.  

12                 All in favor signify by saying aye.

13                 (Response of "Aye.")

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Opposed, 

15    nay.

16                 (No response.)

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

18    resolution is adopted.

19                 To our guests, once again I welcome 

20    you on behalf of the Senate.  We extend to you 

21    the privileges and courtesies of this house.  

22                 Please once again rise and be 

23    recognized.

24                 (Standing ovation.)

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 


                                                               2084

 1    Gianaris.

 2                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

 3    let's move on to privileged Resolution 846, by 

 4    Senator Ramos.  Let's take that up, read its 

 5    title, and recognize Senator Ramos.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   There is 

 7    a privileged resolution at the desk.  

 8                 The Secretary will read.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   Resolution 846, by 

10    Senator Ramos, memorializing Governor Kathy 

11    Hochul to proclaim April 28, 2025, as 

12    Workers Memorial Day in the State of New York.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

14    Ramos on the resolution.

15                 SENATOR RAMOS:   Thank you, 

16    Madam President.  

17                 I rise to affirm a simple human 

18    right.  No job should cost anyone their life.  

19                 Every year this body takes up a 

20    resolution to Workers' Memorial Day.  It's 

21    important we mourn those we've lost to honor 

22    their memories and to recommit ourselves to the 

23    fight for dignity and safety in the workplace.  

24                 It was Mother Jones who said:  

25    "Mourn the dead and fight like hell for the 


                                                               2085

 1    living."  And the today we mourn and we raise 

 2    hell in remembrance of our loved ones -- those 

 3    who should be here with us, but aren't, and those 

 4    who stand with us for the battles ahead.  

 5                 We are here because of the tireless 

 6    work of the labor movement, our workers, and our 

 7    civil rights leaders.  We walk in the footsteps 

 8    of labor champions like Mother Jones, Dolores 

 9    Huerta, and A. Philip Randolph.  Of activists.  

10    Of the single mother working three jobs to 

11    support her children.  Of all those homeless and 

12    living in shelters despite having a job.

13                 The future of this country is built 

14    by workers who are too often bruised, burned, 

15    suffocated, and buried.  These tragedies 

16    overwhelmingly affect immigrants, especially 

17    Black and brown workers who continue to be 

18    exploited, underpaid and left behind.  

19                 We recognize the living pain of our 

20    people -- the voices I hear in Jackson Heights, 

21    Corona, East Elmhurst and Elmhurst -- workers who 

22    are tired of being called essential but treated 

23    as expendable, who work and toil with no reward 

24    in sight.

25                 As the daughter of working-class 


                                                               2086

 1    immigrants and as someone who proudly represents 

 2    the beating heart of Queens, carrying this 

 3    resolution is always a tremendous honor for me -- 

 4    to ensure that those we have lost are remembered, 

 5    and to hold those accountable for building a 

 6    safer future for all New Yorkers.  

 7                 But symbolism alone is not justice.  

 8    Action is.  That's why I've passed legislation to 

 9    create New York State's workplace fatalities 

10    registry, the first of its kind, to ensure 

11    transparency, accountability and protection for 

12    workers across the state.

13                 I've passed legislation to include 

14    mental health trauma in workers' compensation.  

15    And still it is not enough, because the most 

16    profitable corporations and the greediest of 

17    people in the world continue to put their profit 

18    over the safety of their workers.

19                 So every year I fight to pass paid 

20    sick leave for domestic workers, and I continue 

21    my crusade for the TEMP Act, to create a heat 

22    standard for workers in construction, 

23    agriculture, landscaping, car washes, warehousing 

24    and food service.  

25                 We must do more.  And for all the 


                                                               2087

 1    names we cannot say, for all the lives we cannot 

 2    count, this year I am reading 27 names.  These 

 3    names don't represent the totality of the lives 

 4    lost, but they are our responsibility to 

 5    remember.  

 6                 We honor and send love to:  Jui Mei 

 7    Tang, spa worker; Sean Johnson, helicopter pilot; 

 8    Juan Carlos Sosa, textile machine operator; Jason 

 9    Forte, heavy equipment operator; Harvinder Singh, 

10    construction worker; Richard Errico, sanitation 

11    worker; Paulo Couto, construction worker; Jose 

12    Portillo, building superintendent; Mamadou Barry, 

13    Uber driver; Nelvern Samuel, sanitation 

14    enforcement agent; Naveed Afzal, rideshare 

15    driver; Efrain Patino Guerra, hotel cab 

16    dispatcher; Edgar Ordonez, NYPD recruit; 

17    Grzegorz Czupa, construction worker; Herb Henry 

18    Alesna (LIUNA Local 731), construction worker; 

19    Leocadio Tello, construction worker; Keller 

20    Penate, scissor lift operator; Angel Lata Landi, 

21    construction worker; Ray Hodges, USPS letter 

22    carrier (NALC); Anton Albert, bouncer; Michael 

23    Biuso, sanitation worker; Johanci Chapman, 

24    driver; Vladamir Cruz, construction worker; Peter 

25    Forrest, ambulette driver; Ricardo Louis, MTA 


                                                               2088

 1    track worker (TWU 100); Frankley Duran, 

 2    restaurant worker; Robbie Miller, social worker.  

 3                 And for those names who we may not 

 4    have today, those lives mattered too.

 5                 We will never stop fighting until 

 6    every worker is safe, protected and paid what 

 7    they're worth.  Not one more.

 8                 Thank you.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

10    you, Senator.

11                 Senator Mayer on the resolution.

12                 SENATOR MAYER:   Thank you, 

13    Madam President.  

14                 And thank you, Senator Ramos, for 

15    each year reminding us of how important this 

16    particular resolution is.  

17                 I point out that in 1989 the AFL-CIO 

18    declared this day as Workers' Memorial Day.  And 

19    today, April 28th, is the 50th anniversary of the 

20    effective date of OSHA, the Occupational Safety 

21    and Health Act of 1970.  For those of us who have 

22    been around a long time, there was a huge fight 

23    to get OSHA passed.  This was not a little small 

24    piece of legislation.  

25                 And it is very unfortunate now that 


                                                               2089

 1    there's a regulatory freeze of OSHA.  And I am 

 2    hopeful that the courts will ensure that OSHA 

 3    continues to be a strong source of protection for 

 4    our working men and women.

 5                 But I do want to lift up the voices 

 6    of those in Westchester who have died in the last 

 7    few years.  

 8                 Maria Coto, who was a social worker 

 9    with the Westchester County Department of 

10    Social Services, who was brutally beaten and 

11    killed during a home visit in which she 

12    inadvertently knocked on the wrong door.  

13                 Jose Vega.  In 2021, a 46-year-old 

14    Connecticut resident working, as so many of our 

15    immigrant neighbors, on a construction site at a 

16    home where a trench collapsed on top of him and 

17    killed him.  And at that time the DA brought, for 

18    at first time in Westchester County, the charges 

19    of criminally negligent homicide in the death of 

20    this worker.  

21                 We need to do better ensuring that 

22    our laws protect these workers when this kind of 

23    Criminally negligent homicide occurs.  And we 

24    have far to go to do a better job.  

25                 But I would point out that 


                                                               2090

 1    Alejandro Manuel Caisaguano Pelliso, in February 

 2    2020, a 26-year-old Bronx resident, was killed at 

 3    a construction site in New Rochelle.  

 4                 These construction worker deaths 

 5    have been on a steady increase.  Eighty-six 

 6    percent of construction deaths in the state occur 

 7    at nonunion work sites, predominantly immigrant 

 8    workers.  

 9                 This year on Workers' Memorial Day 

10    let us lift up the voices we have lost, and let 

11    us recommit ourselves to ensuring there is safety 

12    for every men and women, regardless of 

13    immigration status, who works in our state, who 

14    puts their life on the line simply to have a job.  

15    That is something we must change.

16                 Thank you, Senator Ramos, for 

17    reminding us each year that is our commitment.

18                 Thank you.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

20    you, Senator.

21                 Senator C. Ryan on the resolution.

22                 SENATOR CHRIS RYAN:   Thank you, 

23    Madam President.  

24                 And thank you, Senator Ramos, for 

25    bringing this resolution forward.  


                                                               2091

 1                 So I rise not just as a Senator in 

 2    this great body amongst some great leaders, but 

 3    as a lifelong union member, a 28-year union 

 4    member of the Communications Workers of America 

 5    and a former president of the Communication 

 6    Workers of America Local 1123, but an advocate 

 7    who has seen firsthand the difference that 

 8    organized labor makes in the protecting of the 

 9    live of working men and women.  

10                 On Workers' Memorial Day -- 

11    Senator Ramos said it -- you know, we say that we 

12    in the labor movement, we say we mourn for the 

13    dead and fight like hell for the living.  You 

14    know, for me this is a little personal.  I've 

15    stood shoulder to shoulder with workers who knew 

16    the risks of the job that we were taking on, but 

17    they believed in me to see to it that as their 

18    president and their labor representative, we made 

19    sure that workplaces were safe.  

20                 But I've also had to attend the 

21    services of fellow brothers who have lost their 

22    lives to electrocution, who have been hit and run 

23    over and killed by motor vehicles.  

24                 You know, it's funny -- and we say, 

25    you know, CWA, we wear red on Thursdays.  And 


                                                               2092

 1    people don't always know why we wear red on 

 2    Thursdays.  But when CWA was on strike in 1989, 

 3    one of our fellow union brothers named 

 4    Gerry Horgan was on a picket line and 

 5    unfortunately run over and killed by a 

 6    replacement worker.  So we always remember that 

 7    every Thursday, to this date, we wear red on 

 8    Thursday to commemorate that, and we don't forget 

 9    it.

10                 You know, every year -- we spoke of 

11    it, every year thousands of workers lose their 

12    lives for simply doing their job.  As a matter of 

13    fact, in 2023, 5,283 working people were killed 

14    on the job, and countless more injured and 

15    sickened because their safety was seen as an 

16    expense instead of a right.

17                 Unions have always been the first 

18    line of defense against dangerous workplaces, 

19    whether it's fighting for OSHA standards, leading 

20    health and safety training, negotiating for 

21    lifesaving equipment, or empowering our workers 

22    to speak up.  You know, the union has made these 

23    workplaces safer for everybody.  

24                 But, you know, today and always I 

25    believe we as lawmakers have an obligation to 


                                                               2093

 1    pass meaningful legislation to protect those that 

 2    are on the job.  And quite frankly, we do -- we 

 3    do also as society.

 4                 So today we remember those who have 

 5    lost their lives -- to every worker and every job 

 6    in every corner of this state.

 7                 Thank you.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

 9    you, Senator.

10                 The question is on the resolution.  

11    All in favor signify by saying aye.

12                 (Response of "Aye.")

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Opposed, 

14    nay.

15                 (No response.)

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

17    resolution is adopted.

18                 Senator Gianaris.

19                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

20    all of today's resolutions are open for 

21    cosponsorship.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

23    resolutions are open for cosponsorship.  Should 

24    you choose not to be a cosponsor of the 

25    resolutions, please notify the desk.


                                                               2094

 1                 Senator Gianaris.

 2                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   I have a couple 

 3    of motions here.  

 4                 On behalf of Senator Hinchey, I wish 

 5    to call up Senate Print 2182, recalled from the 

 6    Assembly, which is now at the desk.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

 8    Secretary will read.  

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

10    150, Senate Print 2182, by Senator Hinchey, an 

11    act to amend the Public Service Law.

12                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to 

13    reconsider the vote by which the bill was passed.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

15    Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.  

16                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

17                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 59.  

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

19    is restored to its place on the Third Reading 

20    Calendar.

21                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   I offer the 

22    following amendments.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

24    amendments are received.

25                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   On behalf of 


                                                               2095

 1    Senator Fahy, on page 17 I offer the following 

 2    amendments to Calendar Number 497, Senate Print 

 3    4713, and ask that said bill retain its place on 

 4    the Third Reading Calendar.  

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

 6    amendments are received, and the bill will retain 

 7    its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

 8                 Senator Gianaris.

 9                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Please take up 

10    the calendar at this time.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

12    Secretary will read.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

14    391, Senate Print 4728, by Senator Sanders, an 

15    act in relation to establishing the New York 

16    State Cryptocurrency and Blockchain Study 

17    Task Force.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

19    last section.

20                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 5.  This 

21    act shall take effect immediately.  

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

23    roll.

24                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 


                                                               2096

 1    the results.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 60.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

 4    is passed.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 6    398, Senate Print 4369, by Senator Comrie, an act 

 7    to amend the Not-For-Profit Corporation Law.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

 9    last section.

10                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

11    act shall take effect immediately.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

13    roll.

14                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

16    the results.

17                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

18    Calendar 398, voting in the negative are 

19    Senators Martinez and Walczyk.

20                 Ayes, 58.  Nays, 2.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

22    is passed.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

24    452, Senate Print 3071A, by Senator Sanders, an 

25    act to amend the Education Law.


                                                               2097

 1                 SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.  

 2                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Lay it aside for 

 3    the day, please.  

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

 5    will be laid aside for the day.

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 7    458, Senate Print 4892B, by Senator Stavisky, an 

 8    act to amend the Education Law.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

10    last section.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

12    act shall take effect one year after it shall 

13    have become a law.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

15    roll.

16                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

18    the results.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

20    Calendar 458, voting in the negative:  

21    Senator Martins.  

22                 Ayes, 59.  Nays, 1.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

24    is passed.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 


                                                               2098

 1    470, Senate Print 1463, by Senator Kavanagh, an 

 2    act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law.

 3                 SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Lay it 

 5    aside.

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 7    486, Senate Print 1225, by Senator Rivera, an act 

 8    to amend the Social Services Law.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

10    last section.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

12    act shall take effect immediately.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

14    roll.

15                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

17    the results.

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 60.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

20    is passed.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

22    505, Senate Print 4767, by Senator Bailey, an act 

23    to amend the Executive Law.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

25    last section.


                                                               2099

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

 2    act shall take effect immediately.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

 4    roll.

 5                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

 7    the results.

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 60.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

10    is passed.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

12    565, Senate Print 2294, by Senator Skoufis, an 

13    act to amend the General Municipal Law.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

15    last section.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

17    act shall take effect immediately.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

19    roll.

20                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

22    the results.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 60.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

25    is passed.


                                                               2100

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 2    612, Senate Print 1641, by Senator Fernandez, an 

 3    act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

 5    last section.

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 7    act shall take effect immediately.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

 9    roll.

10                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

12    the results.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 60.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

15    is passed.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

17    662, Senate Print 1380, by Senator Serrano, an 

18    act to amend the Parks, Recreation and Historic 

19    Preservation Law.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

21    last section.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

23    act shall take effect on the 180th day after it 

24    shall have become a law.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 


                                                               2101

 1    roll.

 2                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

 4    the results.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 6    Calendar 662, voting in the negative are 

 7    Senators Murray and Ortt.

 8                 Ayes, 58.  Nays, 2.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

10    is passed.

11                 Senator Serrano, that completes the 

12    reading of today's calendar.

13                 SENATOR SERRANO:   Thank you.  Can 

14    you please go to the reading of the controversial 

15    calendar.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

17    Secretary will ring the bell.

18                 The Secretary will read.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

20    470, Senate Print 1463, by Senator Kavanagh, an 

21    act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

23    Borrello, why do you rise?

24                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Well, hello, 

25    Madam President.


                                                               2102

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Hello.

 2                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   How are you 

 3    today?

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   I am 

 5    well, how are you?

 6                 (Laughter.)

 7                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Good, I am well.  

 8                 You look lovely.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Nice 

10    blue.

11                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   And I love yours 

12    as well.

13                 That's all, thank you.

14                 (Laughter.)

15                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Would the 

16    sponsor answer a few questions.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Will the 

18    sponsor yield?

19                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Madam President, 

20    yes.  For a moment I thought it was just a 

21    greeting, but I'm also happy to yield.  

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

23    sponsor will yield.

24                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.  

25    Through you, Madam President.


                                                               2103

 1                 The sponsor memo for this bill 

 2    actually mentions great success of recycling 

 3    programs in states like California, Oregon, and 

 4    even nearby Connecticut and Rhode Island.  So 

 5    does this bill mirror those successful programs?

 6                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

 7    Madam President, it does substantially.  Several 

 8    of the elements of this are informed by those 

 9    programs.  

10                 I should note the Oregon program has 

11    been enacted but is not yet fully in effect.  But 

12    the other states have demonstrated that if you 

13    create an extended producer responsibility 

14    program for mattresses, you get very high rates 

15    of collection.  You also get very high rates of 

16    recycling.  

17                 So they are -- this bill is partly 

18    inspired and mirroring provisions of those and 

19    also is modeled on some of the other extended 

20    producer responsibility laws that we've passed in 

21    New York that are also administered by the 

22    Department of Environmental Conservation, as this 

23    one would be.

24                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.  

25                 Madam President, will the sponsor 


                                                               2104

 1    continue to yield.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

 3    sponsor yield?

 4                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

 5    Madam President.  

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

 7    sponsor yields.

 8                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Well, you know, 

 9    I think one of the key components here that makes 

10    this successful is essentially the fee that's 

11    attached.  And by the way, the industry has been 

12    trying to do this for years, and having New York 

13    in this program would substantially improve the 

14    total number of mattresses that will be recycled.  

15                 So why wouldn't we just institute 

16    that fee that has been successful not just in 

17    other states, but with other programs like our 

18    paint recycling program?  

19                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

20    Madam President.  If the industry wanted to do 

21    this in New York, they have the capacity to do 

22    this.  

23                 So it is true that we've gotten a 

24    generally favorable response to the concept of 

25    EPR from industry participants.  But of course if 


                                                               2105

 1    industry participants wanted to set up a 

 2    collection program and make it convenient for 

 3    consumers and recycle mattresses, they're 

 4    certainly already entitled to do that.  

 5                 It has been shown that when you put 

 6    a program like this in place that is essentially 

 7    a mandate, you get much higher rates of 

 8    participants because it levels the playing field.  

 9                 It says, basically, anybody who 

10    sells mattresses has to participate, and that 

11    increases participation rates.  And it also means 

12    that somebody choosing to set up this program 

13    doesn't have to bear the cost while one of their 

14    competitors may not be.

15                 So I think it's fair to say that 

16    industry has been open to supporting programs.  

17    The element that my colleague talks about is an 

18    issue that we've been talking about with EPR 

19    programs at least for 10 years, since we had some 

20    conversations about 10 years ago regarding paint 

21    collection.  

22                 It is just a fact that New York in 

23    general, as we've done our kind of modern EPR 

24    programs, has done them somewhat differently.  

25    The expectation is that the industry, the various 


                                                               2106

 1    participants in the industry, will work together 

 2    to figure out the most effective and efficient 

 3    way to collect mattresses and meet their 

 4    obligations to handle them responsibly, and that 

 5    they will distribute the cost among themselves 

 6    and they will do it in the most efficient way 

 7    possible.  

 8                 If you create a fixed fee that -- as 

 9    some people have proposed -- every purchaser of a 

10    mattress would have to pay, it diminishes the 

11    incentive for the industry to do this 

12    efficiently.  If they're going to get $20 per 

13    mattress regardless of how efficient they are, 

14    they're likely to, you know, spend the $20 and 

15    not worry too much about keeping the cost to the 

16    consumers at a minimum.

17                 The other thing is that we have 

18    actually heard formally from certain retailers of 

19    lower-cost mattresses that they oppose having a 

20    single fixed fee because if you're selling a 

21    mattress at a few hundred dollars and there's a 

22    set fee on it and another retailer that's selling 

23    mattresses at a few thousand dollars, maybe, has 

24    the same fee, then they would be at -- the sort 

25    of low-cost retailer would be at a disadvantage.  


                                                               2107

 1                 So, for example, Ikea, which is a 

 2    major retailer in our state and also a major 

 3    producer of mattresses, has said that they would 

 4    strongly prefer we do this without a fee.

 5                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Madam President, 

 6    will the sponsor continue to yield.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Will the 

 8    sponsor yield?

 9                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

10    Madam President.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

12    sponsor yields.  

13                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   You bring up the 

14    cost.  You know, if I go to the grocery store and 

15    buy, you know, a case of Pepsi and the cans are 

16    as little as 35 or 40 cents, but yet I'm still 

17    paying a five-cent deposit mandated by New York 

18    State government, that would be about the same 

19    percentage as, say, a $15 or $20 fee on a 

20    $200 mattress.  

21                 But it prevents people -- it 

22    encourages them to bring those cans back and has 

23    created kind of a whole cottage industry which 

24    funds, essentially -- that deposit funds the 

25    whole infrastructure that it's created in our 


                                                               2108

 1    deposit program.  

 2                 Why wouldn't we use that same model 

 3    for this?  

 4                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

 5    Madam President.  I support the Bottle Bill.  I 

 6    would actually support increasing that fee and 

 7    also making more funds available to some of the 

 8    participants in that industry that need to 

 9    recycle those.

10                 One big difference is that fee is 

11    fully returned to the consumer if they return the 

12    product.  In this case, what the industry is 

13    proposing is charging a fee and then keeping the 

14    fee and using it to cover their costs.  

15                 And again, we don't usually think in 

16    this house that it's a good idea to specify what 

17    private-sector enterprise ought to charge for a 

18    particular service or a particular product.  

19                 And again, other states have seen 

20    this differently.  I'm not saying it's a crazy 

21    idea to set a fee.  There are various programs 

22    around the world that have a fee structure 

23    similar to the one that my colleague is 

24    proposing.  But there are many other examples of 

25    places that don't do it that way.


                                                               2109

 1                 What this bill proposes is to say 

 2    that if you're producing -- if you're selling 

 3    mattresses in New York State, you need to be 

 4    selling mattresses that are coming from a 

 5    producer that has an approved program and that 

 6    they ought to internalize that cost and share it 

 7    in the most efficient way among producers in 

 8    their industry.

 9                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Madam President, 

10    will the sponsor continue to yield.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

12    sponsor yield?

13                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

14    Madam President.  

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

16    sponsor yields.

17                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So in my 

18    district I have a couple of major manufacturers, 

19    one being Serta, I'm sure a brand that everyone's 

20    heard.  Also Jamestown Mattress.  I happen to 

21    sleep on a Jamestown Mattress made right in my 

22    district.  

23                 You're asking them to bear the 

24    responsibility for that recycling even if someone 

25    goes across the border -- my district borders the 


                                                               2110

 1    State of Pennsylvania.  Literally you can stand 

 2    with one foot in my district and the other foot 

 3    in the State of Pennsylvania for about a hundred 

 4    miles straight.  

 5                 And often people go to Pennsylvania 

 6    because it's -- quite frankly, it's cheaper to 

 7    buy things there.  So if someone goes over there 

 8    and buys something and they bring it back to 

 9    New York and then they turn it in to the 

10    manufacturers, I don't understand, why should 

11    Jamestown Mattress pay for a mattress made in 

12    China that was bought in Erie, Pennsylvania, and 

13    recycled in New York State?  How will we handle 

14    that?

15                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

16    Madam President.  First of all, a great -- it 

17    happens that this is a particular industry where 

18    most of the products sold are made in the 

19    United States.  I think that's unusual for 

20    manufactured products.  So the big producers like 

21    Tempur-Pedic and Sealy and Serta are largely 

22    manufacturing their mattresses in the 

23    United States, although not necessarily in 

24    New York State.  

25                 The way this program would work is 


                                                               2111

 1    that manufacturers that -- producers of 

 2    mattresses would be required to enroll in a 

 3    program that explains how their product can be 

 4    returned conveniently.

 5                 Now, it is true that the average 

 6    mattress lasts many years.  It is true that no 

 7    one is going to, you know, put a bar code on each 

 8    mattress and track whether it is a New York-sold 

 9    mattress and its being returned to a New York 

10    producer.  Hopefully other states like -- we 

11    already have one neighboring state do this.  

12    Hopefully other states will do this, and perhaps 

13    some of these costs will be shared across 

14    borders.  

15                 But for now, what it requires is 

16    that programs meet a fraction -- you're selling a 

17    certain amount into the market, you have to 

18    collect a certain fraction of that number.  So no 

19    one's going to say, Well, mattresses that come 

20    from Pennsylvania don't count toward your target.  

21                 In fact, if you have a target that 

22    you have to meet, encouraging people to return 

23    their mattress when they're done with it, 

24    regardless of where it comes from, will help you 

25    meet your target.  


                                                               2112

 1                 But we're not saying a hundred 

 2    percent of all mattresses sold or a hundred 

 3    percent of all mattresses disposed of must get 

 4    back into the system.  We are suggesting that if 

 5    you are producing and selling mattresses in our 

 6    state, that you take responsibility for 

 7    collecting mattresses that are discarded in our 

 8    state.  

 9                 And there's probably just as many 

10    mattresses in New York that will end up getting 

11    discarded in Pennsylvania -- and, frankly, local 

12    governments in Pennsylvania will bear that cost, 

13    as local governments are bearing the cost now.  

14                 But this is -- you know, we think 

15    it's a wash that some mattresses may cross 

16    borders during the course of being used, before 

17    they're discarded.

18                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Madam President, 

19    will the sponsor continue to yield?

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

21    sponsor yield? 

22                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

23    Madam President.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

25    sponsor yields.


                                                               2113

 1                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   You mention a 

 2    certain percentage.  It's actually a significant 

 3    percentage.  About a third, about one in every 

 4    three mattresses sold in the United States are 

 5    foreign-made.  

 6                 And in some cases, when you start 

 7    talking about mattress dumping, where it might 

 8    have been made in China and then transported to 

 9    another country with, you know, a different set 

10    of rules, and then end up in New York State -- 

11    how are we going to track this?  And why wouldn't 

12    we just give the industry the ability to create 

13    an infrastructure, as has been successfully done 

14    in other states, with funding so that they can 

15    really recycle any mattress?  

16                 You're talking about one in every 

17    three mattresses is made outside the 

18    United States, and we're making them 100 percent 

19    responsible for 100 percent of the mattresses 

20    here in New York State.  Don't you think that's 

21    an unfair burden?  

22                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

23    Madam President.  I think we might be working 

24    with different data here.  My understanding is 

25    just Sealy and Tempur-Pedic are responsible for 


                                                               2114

 1    45 percent of the entire mattress market sold.  

 2    And they assert that they manufacture all their 

 3    mattresses in the United States.  They may have 

 4    some components that are not from the 

 5    United States, as most products do these days.  

 6                 But putting that aside, this bill 

 7    will require more regulation on mattresses that 

 8    are not made in the United States than is 

 9    currently the case.  Right now anybody -- any 

10    mattress from anywhere can be sold.  And when the 

11    consumer is done with it, it gets disposed of 

12    through municipal waste programs and 

13    municipalities bear the cost.

14                 What we would be saying is if you're 

15    selling mattresses, you must only be selling 

16    mattresses that are subject to an EPR program 

17    that has been approved by DEC.  Which means if a 

18    Chinese manufacturer or a Danish manufacturer are 

19    selling mattresses in New York, they will now be 

20    subjected to a program that accounts for the 

21    disposal costs.  

22                 So this, if anything -- if you think 

23    that there are people dumping mattresses into 

24    New York that want to do it -- I use that as a 

25    trade term, not as a -- not literally dumping.  


                                                               2115

 1    But if they are putting mattresses into the 

 2    New York market right now, there's no regulation 

 3    on what happens with them after they're done.  

 4                 This would provide regulation.  It 

 5    would provide equal regulation regardless of 

 6    where the mattress is manufactured.

 7                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Will the sponsor 

 8    continue to yield.  

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

10    sponsor yield? 

11                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Happily, 

12    Madam President.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

14    sponsor yields.

15                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So with that 

16    said, you know, obviously with the proliferation 

17    of online purchases, are we going to prohibit 

18    Amazon from shipping a nonparticipating mattress 

19    to New York State?  How are we going to stop 

20    that?

21                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   We will -- the 

22    bill would specifically prohibit that.  You are 

23    not permitted, in this bill, to sell mattresses 

24    unless they are part of a program approved by DEC 

25    that addresses the question of what's going to 


                                                               2116

 1    happen at the end of life.  

 2                 And for what it's worth, that 

 3    program can be done in a number of ways.  Like 

 4    theoretically a mattress producer could create 

 5    their own program, or they could work with 

 6    another competitor in the industry that they want 

 7    to work jointly with, or they could create -- 

 8    which is more likely, they could create a single 

 9    entity that is statewide, often called a producer 

10    responsibility organization, where they all pool 

11    their resources, they basically take a mattress 

12    back at each collection site regardless of the 

13    manufacturer, and then they allocate the cost 

14    among themselves, which businesses are quite 

15    adept at.

16                 So this would -- yeah, Amazon would 

17    be violating the law if they were selling a 

18    mattress in the New York market that was not part 

19    of an approved program.

20                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Madam President, 

21    will the sponsor continue to yield.  

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

23    sponsor yield? 

24                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes.  Yes, 

25    Madam President.


                                                               2117

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

 2    sponsor yields.

 3                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   And here's the 

 4    question you've been waiting for.  Who's going to 

 5    be the mattress police?  

 6                 (Laughter.)

 7                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

 8    Madam President.  I guess the short answer would 

 9    be the DEC, although I don't think there would be 

10    a lot of badges and guns involved in this 

11    enforcement effort.

12                 Basically if you want to sell 

13    mattresses -- I mean, first of all, as you know, 

14    EPR programs exist in many markets.  We've had 

15    EPR programs in -- for a third of a century in 

16    some European countries that work quite well.  

17                 The bill would require, if you want 

18    to sell mattresses in New York, that you're part 

19    of an approved program approved by DEC.  There 

20    are time frames within which to approve that.  

21    DEC would list all the manufacturers that are 

22    participating in those programs.  So if you want 

23    to sell -- if you're a retailer, all you have to 

24    do is check the list and see that that is a brand 

25    of mattress that is approved.  And if you're 


                                                               2118

 1    violating the law, then you're violating the law.

 2                 And again, the principal -- you 

 3    know, the principal obligation here is for 

 4    industry participants, manufacturers of 

 5    mattresses -- producers of mattresses, which 

 6    includes importers, people who are taking a 

 7    mattress that's technically made by somebody else 

 8    and importing it to New York.  If you're bringing 

 9    a mattress into the New York market, you have to 

10    participate in this program.  And the program has 

11    to be approved by DEC as to the convenience of it 

12    and the sufficiency of it.  And if you do that, 

13    then your mattress is sellable in New York.

14                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Madam President, 

15    will the sponsor continue to yield.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

17    sponsor yield?

18                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

19    Madam President.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

21    sponsor yields.  

22                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So this brings 

23    up an interesting, I guess, conundrum.  You can 

24    very easily, in my district -- and people do it 

25    every day -- go to Erie, Pennsylvania, which is 


                                                               2119

 1    literally minutes from Jamestown.  So you have 

 2    Jamestown Mattress making mattresses in Jamestown 

 3    that will be complying and footing the bill.  And 

 4    they're going across the border and the consumer 

 5    buys a noncompliant mattress and brings it back 

 6    to New York.  

 7                 Is that person now essentially 

 8    handling mattress contraband?  What's going to 

 9    happen to those folks?

10                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

11    Madam President.  There's nothing in this bill 

12    that would prohibit somebody from buying a 

13    mattress across the border and using it for their 

14    personal use.  

15                 If they're buying mattresses across 

16    the border and setting up a retail operation 

17    selling those mattresses, and those mattresses 

18    are not from a brand that is participating in a 

19    PRO -- or, sorry, that is complying with the law, 

20    then that retailer, as soon as they become a 

21    retailer, they might be violating this law.  

22                 But there's nothing that's -- we're 

23    not checking your mattress label at the border, 

24    as it were.  

25                 I will note that it is -- the likely 


                                                               2120

 1    outcome here is the same as -- it's likely to be 

 2    the same as it has been in other states, which is 

 3    most -- most companies that want to sell 

 4    mattresses in New York, which is probably most 

 5    makers of mattresses, will likely set up a 

 6    program, have it probably joined together with 

 7    all the other mattress producers, set up a single 

 8    program and have DEC approve it and then we'll 

 9    proceed from there.  

10                 So I don't think it's likely to be a 

11    problem that every once in a while some -- or 

12    maybe not even -- in my district they probably go 

13    to a mall in New Jersey and buy a mattress if 

14    they're not buying it in New York.  And that's -- 

15    there's nothing in this bill that would prevent 

16    that.

17                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Madam President, 

18    on the bill.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

20    Borrello on the bill.

21                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you, 

22    Senator Kavanagh, for that.

23                 I think one of the things that we 

24    always forget here in New York State is that we 

25    are not the center of the universe and that 


                                                               2121

 1    everything does not revolve around what happens 

 2    in New York State.  And in fact people have 

 3    options, now more than ever.  You can order 

 4    something online, ship it into New York State, no 

 5    one's going to know the difference.  

 6                 But we're going to make sure that 

 7    manufacturers, many of whom are based here in 

 8    New York State, who every day think of reasons 

 9    why they should leave New York State -- which is 

10    happening at a record pace -- are going to say to 

11    themselves, Why should we have to shoulder this 

12    burden when we can lift up our operations and 

13    move it a few miles down the road to Pennsylvania 

14    and not have to deal with this any longer?  

15                 And then they can become the 

16    manufacturers that are shipping into New York 

17    State without having to shoulder this burden.

18                 But the interesting thing about this 

19    particular bill is that there's just one little 

20    thing that would make this, you know, something 

21    that would be embraced by the industry.  And that 

22    is a fee that has been successful in all those 

23    other states that the sponsor mentions in his 

24    justification.  The key has been a small -- a 

25    nominal fee, somewhere between 16 and 22 dollars 


                                                               2122

 1    per mattress, so that they can create the 

 2    infrastructure necessary to recycle these 

 3    mattresses.  And it's actually a good thing 

 4    because so many of the parts go into other things 

 5    that can be used successfully.

 6                 But we don't want to do that here in 

 7    New York State.  Why?  Well, because we have a 

 8    lot of people that are buying, you know, low-cost 

 9    mattresses and we don't want them to have to pay 

10    that burden.  

11                 Well, like I said before, I go in 

12    and buy, you know, a case of Pepsi and pay 

13    45 cent a can at the grocery store and I'm paying 

14    an extra five cents.  And in fact there's a big 

15    problem where I live.  There's a big problem that 

16    people in Pennsylvania actually buy cans of soda 

17    that they actually didn't pay the at deposit on, 

18    and they bring them to New York State to collect 

19    the deposit.  

20                 It's a huge multi-million-dollar 

21    problem here in New York State.  And we're going 

22    to create an even bigger multi-million-dollar 

23    problem with, of all things, mattresses.  

24                 So I think that the intention is 

25    good.  The industry supports it.  But yet we 


                                                               2123

 1    don't really have the key element here, which is 

 2    to create the funding to create the proper 

 3    infrastructure.  

 4                 And in those other states -- this is 

 5    very important.  I asked the question, how many 

 6    mattresses are actually being recycled?  I was 

 7    really expecting him to say like 10 percent, 

 8    15 percent.  Sixty-seven percent of mattresses in 

 9    those other states that have a recycling program 

10    are being recycled.  That's a huge impact.  

11                 So what are we really talking about 

12    here?  Do we want to have an impact?  Do we want 

13    to keep those mattresses out of our landfills and 

14    off the side of the road?  And for what?  For but 

15    a small fee that will be added to those 

16    mattresses to create that infrastructure.  Which 

17    the industry supports.

18                 So I think we can support this with 

19    that change.  But if we don't, if we don't 

20    continue to unfairly burden manufacturers like we 

21    do in so many industries in New York State, it's 

22    going to create another, I guess, you know, 

23    failure for us to support the businesses here in 

24    New York State.  

25                 Like the businesses in my district.  


                                                               2124

 1    Like Jamestown Mattress.  Like Serta.  That have 

 2    been there, employing hundreds of people.  Union 

 3    employees that will be sacrificed because we 

 4    don't want to charge a nominal fee to create a 

 5    program that would have a huge benefit.  

 6                 So I'm going to be a no on this 

 7    bill, with the hope that that amendment can be 

 8    made sometime.

 9                 Thank you, Madam President.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

11    you, Senator.

12                 Senator Walczyk.

13                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Thank you, 

14    Madam President.  I'll go briefly on the bill.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

16    Walczyk on the bill.

17                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Thank you.  

18                 So this bill aims to see more 

19    mattresses recycled in the State of New York.  

20    The Mattress Recycling Council has been in 

21    operation for over 10 years, as my esteemed, 

22    distinguished and well-respected colleague George 

23    Borrello pointed out, and now in those four 

24    states -- California, Oregon, Rhode Island and 

25    Connecticut, 67 percent -- 15 million 


                                                               2125

 1    mattresses -- through a small assessment of a fee 

 2    at retail point of sale, and oversight from 

 3    whatever the environmental department in that 

 4    state is, a program that appears to be working 

 5    very well and numerically with 15 million 

 6    mattresses recycled, is obviously working well 

 7    for those states.  

 8                 Local governments have brought up 

 9    this issue, and they are relieved in those states 

10    because mattresses can be pretty difficult and 

11    bulky to deal with.  They take up a lot of space 

12    in a landfill.  They can be an impediment to 

13    human health for those who are dealing with them.  

14    They very quickly degrade when they're left out 

15    in the elements or in a bad situation.

16                 But this bill doesn't adopt the 

17    program that has been proven in those -- you 

18    know, in the marketplace of ideas in the 

19    50 United States of America.  We in this body 

20    have the opportunity to look at what other states 

21    are doing and listen to the industry and what 

22    they might say.  This is a perfect example of 

23    that marketplace of ideas.  If you want to do a 

24    mattress recycling bill, perfect, there's a 

25    program that's been working, supported by the 


                                                               2126

 1    industry in four other states.  

 2                 So instead, this bill is looking to 

 3    sort of recreate the wheel and put New York's own 

 4    spin on it.  

 5                 And with that, I would ask the 

 6    sponsor to yield for some questions.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Will the 

 8    sponsor yield? 

 9                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

10    Madam President, yes, I yield.  

11                 And I'd be happy to respond to some 

12    of the statement -- the questions in the form of 

13    statement that my colleague has mentioned.  But 

14    it's his time, so --

15                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   I'll allot that 

16    time, Madam Chair.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Go 

18    ahead, Senator.

19                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yeah, so just a 

20    couple of points.  

21                 First of all, to points that both of 

22    my colleagues have made, the question -- the EPR 

23    programs are broadly successful in the manner 

24    that my colleagues have suggested these 

25    particular mattress programs are successful.  


                                                               2127

 1    When you require that producers take back their 

 2    product and do what's responsible for it, you get 

 3    high rates of recycling.  

 4                 And that is the idea that it is 

 5    true, they get -- they exceed 70 percent 

 6    recycling rates with EPR mattress programs in 

 7    each of the four states that have had the 

 8    programs long enough to have data.

 9                 The idea that that success results 

10    from the fee is perplexing.  That success results 

11    from the fact that manufacturers are required to 

12    set up a convenient way to take mattresses back, 

13    and then they are required to in fact take them 

14    back and then they're required to dispose of them 

15    or reuse the materials in a responsible manner.

16                 What we're discussing here today is 

17    whether to impose that cost individually in a set 

18    fee on each consumer or impose it on the industry 

19    collectively to be distributed in a manner that 

20    the industry itself decides is rational.  Or the 

21    status quo, which is what we would be doing if we 

22    didn't pass this bill, which is to continue to 

23    have every local government in the state bear the 

24    cost of disposing of these mattresses.  

25                 So consumers are going to pay this 


                                                               2128

 1    as taxpayers or they're going to pay it as a fee 

 2    when they purchase a mattress or they're going to 

 3    pay any price increase that the industry chooses 

 4    to impose as a result of this product -- of this 

 5    work they need to do.  And it's clear that 

 6    there's some work that needs to be done in order 

 7    to do this.  But there's no reason to think that 

 8    that amount would be necessarily the fixed fee 

 9    that we would impose on here.

10                 And I would also just note that we 

11    have numerous EPR programs all over the country, 

12    including in New York State, that are not based 

13    on a point-of-purchase fee as the industry is 

14    suggesting here, including our own electronic 

15    waste program that's been around for a very long 

16    time, including other programs that we have for 

17    other products.  

18                 We as a general matter have not done 

19    modern EPR programs with fees.  We do have some 

20    fee-based programs that are decades old, 

21    including the tire program where you pay a fixed 

22    fee when you turn a tire in.  

23                 But there's no reason to think that 

24    this issue of how to allocate costs is going to 

25    materially impact the effectiveness of this 


                                                               2129

 1    program.  And there's no reason to think it's 

 2    going to be detrimental to any particular 

 3    manufacturer of mattresses, including the -- you 

 4    know, the work that's being done in my 

 5    colleagues' districts.

 6                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

 7    Madam President, will the sponsor yield.  

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Will the 

 9    sponsor yield?

10                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

11    Madam President.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

13    sponsor yields.

14                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   So you just 

15    mentioned three different options of how the 

16    taxpayers are going to pay for this, or either 

17    the consumer is going to pay for it one of two 

18    ways.  But your bill on page 5, line 23, says 

19    "The program shall be free to the consumer, 

20    convenient and adequate to serve the needs of the 

21    consumers in all areas of the state, and on an 

22    ongoing basis."  

23                 How do you enforce that this is free 

24    to the consumer?  You know, especially given your 

25    remarks saying the consumers have three options 


                                                               2130

 1    to pay for this:  Either the taxpayers -- but you 

 2    haven't chosen that route -- either the fixed 

 3    fee -- but you haven't chosen that route -- and, 

 4    by your own words, through the manufacturer we 

 5    anticipate the costs are going to increase, yet 

 6    the language of your bill says the consumer can't 

 7    bear the cost.

 8                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

 9    Madam President, I think that language is a 

10    straightforward acknowledgment that there's no 

11    specific fee for returning your mattress.

12                 Incidentally, what the industry is 

13    proposing is not -- as I understand it from their 

14    representatives, their very capable 

15    representatives here in Albany, what they seem to 

16    be proposing is a fee upon purchasing a mattress 

17    at the point of sale so that that money can then 

18    be used to create a recycling program.  So in 

19    that -- even in their program, you wouldn't be 

20    paying a fee to recycle your mattress.  

21                 But it's pretty straightforward.  

22    What we're saying is that the -- when they set up 

23    their program, it needs to be convenient for 

24    consumers and you can't charge a fee for 

25    returning your mattress.


                                                               2131

 1                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

 2    Madam President, would the sponsor continue to 

 3    yield.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

 5    sponsor yield?

 6                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

 7    Madam President.  

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

 9    sponsor yields.

10                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   In the states 

11    that run this program that already have a fixed 

12    fee -- somewhere between $16 and $22.50, I think, 

13    for the four states that are running it now -- 

14    consumers can anticipate what that is because 

15    it's a state program that's run.  

16                 But what do you anticipate that the 

17    cost of an increase in mattress purchase will be 

18    in the State of New York when your bill is 

19    implemented?  

20                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

21    Madam President.  I have no particular reason to 

22    think that the net cost of this program will be 

23    different.  

24                 But I honestly don't know whether -- 

25    the -- the argument against -- the argument 


                                                               2132

 1    for -- again, I and the sponsors of those bills 

 2    in those states would largely agree that this is 

 3    an essential program, that it diminishes our 

 4    solid waste problem, that it addresses the fact 

 5    that a substantial fraction of our contribution 

 6    to climate change is through inefficient solid 

 7    waste management.  So we largely agree.

 8                 The issue -- what I don't know is 

 9    whether those participants in that market would 

10    realize efficiencies if they didn't say you get 

11    $20 whether you're efficient or you get $20 

12    whether you're inefficient.

13                 Presumably that fee has been set to 

14    cover their actual cost, and it presumably is 

15    doing so.  But the theory here is that an 

16    efficient industry, without imposing a specific 

17    fixed fee set by the government, might do things 

18    better in a more efficient way.

19                 So people who are purchasing 

20    mattresses will likely do what they do now, which 

21    is shop around, see the best deal they can get, 

22    relative to the quality and all the other factors 

23    they might consider, and purchase a mattress.  

24                 Mattresses -- a typical queen-sized 

25    mattress exceeds a thousand dollars in cost, 


                                                               2133

 1    although there's a very wide range.  They can go 

 2    for as much as $5,000.  So there's a very wide 

 3    range in cost, a very wide range in materials, a 

 4    very wide range in, you know, the experience 

 5    people are looking for.  

 6                 This will be very -- for a purchase 

 7    that people make, you know, once or twice a 

 8    decade, this will be a small imposition and 

 9    meanwhile it will prevent their local governments 

10    from having to bear this cost effectively for 

11    free, you know, without any participation from 

12    the industry.

13                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

14    Madam President, would the sponsor continue to 

15    yield.  

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

17    sponsor yield?  

18                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

19    Madam President.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

21    sponsor yields.  

22                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   There's nothing 

23    in this bill that caps the cost of a mattress or 

24    controls the price of mattresses in the State of 

25    New York, is there?  


                                                               2134

 1                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   No.  Through 

 2    you, Madam President, what I hear the Minority 

 3    suggesting, my esteemed colleagues, is that we 

 4    have, in fact -- effectively they're suggesting a 

 5    price control on a particular service, which is 

 6    the service of taking your mattress back.  

 7                 But there's nothing else in this 

 8    that sets the cost of mattresses, the production 

 9    of mattresses, or the sale price of mattresses.  

10                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

11    Madam President, would the sponsor continue to 

12    yield?

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Will the 

14    sponsor yield?

15                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

16    Madam President.  

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

18    sponsor yields.

19                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   I didn't mean to 

20    make any such suggestion.

21                 What type of mattress do you sleep 

22    on?  What brand of mattress do you sleep on?  

23                 (Laughter.)

24                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

25    Madam President, that seems like a bit personal 


                                                               2135

 1    with the cameras rolling.  

 2                 (Laughter.)

 3                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   I -- and through 

 4    you, Madam President, I have no idea.

 5                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

 6    Madam President, would the sponsor continue to 

 7    yield.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

 9    sponsor yield? 

10                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

11    Madam President, as long as my colleague doesn't 

12    try to elicit too many expressions of ignorance 

13    of the details of my daily life, I'd be happy to, 

14    yes.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   So the 

16    sponsor will yield except for personal questions.

17                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   I'll tread 

18    lightly, Madam President.  

19                 I was hoping to not explore the 

20    details of your bedroom but, rather, the 

21    manufacturing process and where that mattress may 

22    have come by -- may have come from.  Because I 

23    think in some of my line of questioning we're 

24    going to illuminate some of those things today.

25                 But if we could go to page 3, 


                                                               2136

 1    line 48 of your bill, briefly.  This is a 

 2    requirement that there is a mattress return 

 3    location in every county in the State of 

 4    New York.  Also requiring that 70 percent of the 

 5    State of New York have a mattress return facility 

 6    within 15 miles of their residence.

 7                 How many sites in the State of 

 8    New York will that be?

 9                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

10    Madam President, I don't think there'd be any 

11    reliable way of estimating that.  

12                 I suppose you could take the number 

13    of square miles and then remember your high 

14    school geometry and figure out the radius and the 

15    circumference -- the ratio of the radius of a 

16    circle to the area of a circle and then -- but 

17    that would suppose that they are evenly 

18    distributed, which they won't be.  Presumably 

19    they'll be in, you know, shopping malls and other 

20    places where they're convenient for people.

21                 Again, these kinds of convenience 

22    programs are a standard aspect of the programs 

23    that my colleagues have been suggesting have done 

24    well in other parts of the country.  But 

25    there's -- basically the idea here is under 


                                                               2137

 1    normal circumstances what happens is the industry 

 2    as a whole, which is very good at figuring out 

 3    convenient places to purchase mattresses, would 

 4    also create a convenient way for people to take 

 5    them back.  

 6                 So we're not saying that the same 

 7    store that sells them has to take them back.  

 8    We're saying that the industry has to make sure 

 9    there are convenient places for people to take 

10    them back.  And if everybody's working together, 

11    that means a certain number of distribution 

12    points and a certain number of collection points.  

13    And that provision is intended to make sure it's 

14    convenient for all New Yorkers.

15                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And through you, 

16    Madam President, would the sponsor continue to 

17    yield?  

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

19    sponsor yield?

20                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

21    Madam President.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

23    sponsor yields.

24                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   So on the county 

25    requirement, every county in the State of 


                                                               2138

 1    New York would have to have at least one.  That 

 2    includes Hamilton County, population of 5,000, 

 3    large county in the Adirondacks?  

 4                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes.  Through 

 5    you, Madam President, yes.  

 6                 But it also -- but the requirement 

 7    about relative distances would also apply there.  

 8    So presumably there would quite likely be more 

 9    than one site in Hamilton County.  Although, 

10    theoretically, they could be on the other -- they 

11    could be near Hamilton County but on the other 

12    side of the border; they would still count.  

13                 But yes, there's a -- in order -- I 

14    come from a very populous county in the state, a 

15    very densely populated county in the state, the 

16    County of New York.  But we want to make sure 

17    that people all over the state have some -- have 

18    a convenient ability to return the mattress.  

19                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

20    Madam President, would the sponsor continue to 

21    yield?

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

23    sponsor yield?

24                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

25    Madam President.


                                                               2139

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

 2    sponsor yields.  

 3                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Did you reach out 

 4    to rural counties or the APA, say, to say whether 

 5    they could site one of these mattress return 

 6    facilities?  

 7                 I'm not aware that you can even 

 8    purchase a mattress in Hamilton County.  There's 

 9    only 5,000 residents.  Who would pay for that 

10    location?

11                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

12    Madam President, I have not talked about the 

13    particular -- you're talking about the 

14    Adirondack Park?  I have not talked with the 

15    Adirondack Park Authority about this bill.

16                 I have talked with various 

17    representatives of counties and towns and 

18    villages which generally support these programs, 

19    because otherwise they are bearing the cost of 

20    disposing of these mattresses.  

21                 But yeah, the requirement that there 

22    be at least one site in that county is something 

23    that the industry as a whole would have to 

24    address for the benefit of the residents of 

25    Hamilton County.  If somebody were to tell us and 


                                                               2140

 1    say that Hamilton County, of all counties in the 

 2    state, needs some kind of an exception, I suppose 

 3    we could address that.  

 4                 But, you know, there are certainly 

 5    businesses, retail businesses, other kinds of 

 6    businesses -- there are certainly disposal sites.  

 7    I mean, people have places to dispose of their 

 8    garbage within Hamilton County, one presumes.  So 

 9    perhaps those could be places where they could 

10    also turn their mattress in.

11                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And through you, 

12    Madam President, would the sponsor continue to 

13    yield?

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Will the 

15    sponsor yield?

16                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

17    Madam President.  

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

19    sponsor yields.

20                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   So are you saying 

21    it would fall on the county as a municipality to 

22    provide that site?  

23                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   No, I am 

24    saying -- through you, Madam President -- that 

25    the industry would be required to identify a site 


                                                               2141

 1    in that county that is willing to take mattresses 

 2    back as part of this program.  

 3                 And I am suggesting one possibility, 

 4    which is not uncommon in EPR programs, is for a 

 5    site that is the place where you bring other 

 6    things you need to dispose of, you also bring 

 7    your mattresses there.  

 8                 And in this case then the industry 

 9    would be responsible for covering costs of that 

10    and also taking -- taking the mattress from 

11    there.  

12                 So I'm saying the siting of -- the 

13    idea that we couldn't find any site in 

14    Hamilton County where this activity could occur, 

15    it's not -- you know, it doesn't require some 

16    large facility.  It doesn't require any extensive 

17    equipment.  It's merely a drop-off site is what 

18    would be required here.  

19                 And I'm saying that it's likely you 

20    could do that.  And if I were in the industry, I 

21    would consider looking at places where people -- 

22    right now people are taking their mattresses 

23    typically to a place where they get disposed of 

24    in a landfill.  We will be saying it doesn't go 

25    to the landfill, but the same place you might 


                                                               2142

 1    drop it off to have it dumped in a landfill could 

 2    theoretically serve as a collection point.  

 3                 It's just that the mattress doesn't 

 4    then go to a landfill, it goes to the industry 

 5    for appropriate and responsible handling.

 6                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

 7    Madam President, if the sponsor will continue to 

 8    yield.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

10    sponsor yield?

11                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

12    Madam President.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

14    sponsor yields.  

15                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   You keep 

16    repeating the term "the industry would."  Who 

17    would ultimately site a place in Hamilton County?  

18    Who would be responsible for siting a place in 

19    Hamilton County where people would have the right 

20    to return their mattresses?

21                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

22    Madam President, I am not sure in -- I'm not even 

23    quite sure in what manner my colleague is using 

24    the word "siting."  

25                 If my colleague is suggesting that 


                                                               2143

 1    they would need some special approval to create 

 2    such a site, it seems to me that this would be -- 

 3    you know, this would be akin to many other 

 4    businesses people might establish.  

 5                 But I don't profess to know the ins 

 6    and outs of siting things in Hamilton County 

 7    per se.  

 8                 What I am suggesting is that states, 

 9    including states with very rural areas, with very 

10    underpopulated areas, have had similar 

11    convenience requirements and they've managed to 

12    comply with this law.  And all it would take to 

13    comply with this law is to find some place in 

14    Hamilton County -- with this particular provision 

15    of law, provide some place in Hamilton County 

16    that is willing and able to take people's 

17    mattresses back when they are done with them.  

18                 If you're talking about the 

19    mattresses of a total of 5,000 people, and they 

20    use them -- people typically use mattresses, 

21    let's say, every five to 10 years, you'd be 

22    talking about taking a very small number of 

23    mattresses back countywide.  And that's a service 

24    that it seems to me is pretty easy to site.  

25                 If in the implementation of this it 


                                                               2144

 1    became clear that there was some good reason we 

 2    couldn't site a mattress collection point 

 3    anywhere in Hamilton County, I suppose the DEC, 

 4    over the course of the next couple of years, 

 5    could alert us to that fact and we can try to 

 6    address it.  But it seems to me unlikely that the 

 7    problem with this is that there's no place in 

 8    Hamilton County to bring your mattress.  

 9                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

10    Madam President, would the sponsor continue to 

11    yield.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

13    sponsor yield? 

14                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

15    Madam President.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

17    sponsor yields.

18                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   So on page 4 of 

19    your bill you say:  "To meet these convenience 

20    goals, the producer or representative 

21    organization shall" -- which makes it a 

22    requirement -- "enter into voluntary agreements."  

23                 How do you mandate a voluntary 

24    agreement?  

25                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 


                                                               2145

 1    Madam President.  The provision that my colleague 

 2    is referring to would be voluntary from the 

 3    perspective of the other party to it.

 4                 We're requiring that the industry -- 

 5    that the industry engage in these various 

 6    practices in order to -- in order to create a 

 7    program that is effective and efficient.

 8                 It would not -- there's nothing in 

 9    this bill that would require that any 

10    particular -- I think you're referring to the 

11    voluntary agreements to (reading) establish 

12    collection sites at public and private solid 

13    waste facilities, transfer stations, landfills, 

14    recyclables handling and recovery facilities that 

15    are permitted or registered with the department, 

16    or other suitable sites for the collection of 

17    discarded mattresses.

18                 So if you're requiring to do any one 

19    of those things, including other suitable sites 

20    for collection of mattresses, what you're saying 

21    is they're required to enter agreements for 

22    suitable sites.  And there are various examples 

23    of what those might be, which are some of the 

24    ones I just mentioned in response to the previous 

25    question.


                                                               2146

 1                 But basically the industry would be 

 2    required to set up collection sites, and they 

 3    would be -- they would do that through a series 

 4    of, you know, five different methods, with 

 5    various subparts of some of those methods.  And 

 6    once they've done that, then they would have a 

 7    plan and DEC would approve the plan.

 8                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

 9    Madam President, would the sponsor continue to 

10    yield?  

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

12    sponsor yield?

13                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

14    Madam President.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

16    sponsor yields.

17                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   All right, I'll 

18    move off of that one for a moment.

19                 I'm curious about mattresses and 

20    where they're manufactured in the world, because 

21    on page 6, line 43, you're requiring the 

22    department shall maintain a list of producers.  

23    Would that be an international list of producers 

24    from all mattress manufacturers in the globe?

25                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 


                                                               2147

 1    Madam President, it would be producers that 

 2    are -- that have plans that have been submitted 

 3    and approved by the department.  

 4                 So the -- it doesn't require that 

 5    they survey the world for producers.  It requires 

 6    that producers that have sought authority to have 

 7    their mattresses sold in New York are listed by 

 8    the DEC.  So if somebody is a retailer or a 

 9    consumer and they want to know if they're 

10    purchasing from a producer that has complied with 

11    the law, they can just check the list.

12                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

13    Madam President, would the sponsor continue to 

14    yield.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

16    sponsor yield?

17                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

18    Madam President.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

20    sponsor yields.  

21                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Because in this 

22    chamber we can't do something that impacts 

23    manufacturing in Mexico or Poland or Italy or 

24    Slovenia, right?  Is that correct?  

25                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 


                                                               2148

 1    Madam President.  We have substantial authority 

 2    over things are that sold here.  

 3                 And again, I would just note that 

 4    "producer" is defined in the bill, it's not some 

 5    hypothetical concept.  And, you know, "producer" 

 6    means any person who manufactures or renovates 

 7    mattresses that are sold, offered for sale, or 

 8    distributed to a consumer in this state.

 9                 So the producers they would have to 

10    list are producers that are selling mattresses in 

11    this state.  And it would be impermissible to 

12    sell a mattress in this state without getting an 

13    approved plan from the DEC.

14                 So that's the list that they would 

15    be doing.  We're not affecting the manner in 

16    which mattresses are manufactured or sold outside 

17    the state.

18                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Sure.

19                 And through you, Madam President, 

20    would the sponsor continue to yield?

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

22    sponsor yield?

23                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

24    Madam President.  

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 


                                                               2149

 1    sponsor yields.

 2                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And I won't hit 

 3    the bed-in-a-box online sales.  I thought the 

 4    previous debate did a pretty great job on that.  

 5                 On page 7, line 20, you outline the 

 6    mattress collection advisory board in this new 

 7    program.  There are 12 members.  One of those 12 

 8    would be from mattress producers.  Zero from 

 9    local governments.  But we've already talked 

10    about local governments quite a bit here today.  

11                 Why no one from local governments as 

12    a voting member on the advisory board?  

13                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

14    Madam President.  There are several specific kind 

15    of criteria for some of the appointees here, 

16    because we wanted to make sure that there were 

17    mattress producers and mattress retailers and 

18    mattress recyclers and mattress collectors 

19    represented, because they have special expertise.  

20                 But I would note that also both the 

21    Majority and the Minority leaders of each house 

22    have appointees to this board.  And if the 

23    Minority in this house wanted to appoint a 

24    representative of local government, that would 

25    get a member of local government on this board.  


                                                               2150

 1                 And again, there are several other 

 2    appointees that are not categorically specific.  

 3    So -- and again, generally speaking, local 

 4    governments benefit from this program because 

 5    they are currently responsible for taking these 

 6    products back in most cases, under our state 

 7    system.  They would largely be relieved of that 

 8    obligation under this bill.

 9                 But if they -- certainly local 

10    governments have the ability to talk to the DEC 

11    or us as they go forward, and they would also 

12    possibly have the opportunity to participate in 

13    this board.  

14                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

15    Madam President, will the sponsor continue to 

16    yield?

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

18    sponsor yield?

19                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Yeah, I was 

20    asking specifically about the 12 voting members 

21    and why there wasn't someone on --

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Excuse 

23    me, the sponsor has not yielded.

24                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   So I do yield.  

25    I had not yielded, but I will yield now.  Thank 


                                                               2151

 1    you.  

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Yes, the 

 3    sponsor yields.

 4                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   I was asking 

 5    specifically about the 12 voting members.  I 

 6    understand that the Legislature can appoint 

 7    nonvoting members to the advisory board.  

 8                 Why isn't anybody from local 

 9    government able to vote on this advisory board?  

10    We know it has a big impact there.

11                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

12    Madam President, that issue has never been raised 

13    to me, including similar bills with similar 

14    provisions that have similar advisory boards.  

15                 Like the carpet stewardship program, 

16    which is going into effect soon in New York, has 

17    a very similar structure.  This structure is 

18    actually modeled on that.  And that bill and this 

19    bill have been supported by local governments 

20    without suggesting that change.  

21                 Certainly if local governments or 

22    their representatives suggested an interest in 

23    participating in this board, I think that would 

24    be worthy of consideration.  

25                 But I have never, having had lots of 


                                                               2152

 1    conversations with representatives of local 

 2    governments, including conversations where 

 3    they're largely supportive of EPR -- again, 

 4    because it relieves them of costs and various 

 5    other burdens.  But that this is the -- the bill 

 6    as it reads is as it is because we are reflecting 

 7    an express desire to have input on these plans as 

 8    they are implemented.  And that desire has never 

 9    been expressed to me, at least, by any local 

10    government.

11                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

12    Madam President, would the sponsor continue to 

13    yield.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

15    sponsor yield?

16                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

17    Madam President.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

19    sponsor yields.

20                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Did you receive a 

21    memo in support from New York Product Stewardship 

22    Council?  Have you seen that one?

23                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

24    Madam President, there was a draft of a letter 

25    regarding this bill from the New York Product 


                                                               2153

 1    Stewardship Council that was circulated today, 

 2    but I understand it is a draft and is not in 

 3    final form.  

 4                 And I understand from a conversation 

 5    with the Product Stewardship Council they expect 

 6    to release such a thing by the end of the day.  

 7                 But I don't believe they have an 

 8    official position on this bill as of yet.  

 9    Although they are, as their name notes, generally 

10    very supportive of product stewardship programs 

11    because they're the Product Stewardship Council.

12                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

13    Madam President, would the sponsor continue to 

14    yield.  

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

16    sponsor yield?

17                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

18    Madam President.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

20    sponsor yields.  

21                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   I've got the 

22    non-drafted version with a signature on it in 

23    front of me.  It says they strongly encourage 

24    your consideration of an amendment requiring 

25    retailers to collect a program fee established by 


                                                               2154

 1    a producer responsibility organization, with 

 2    oversight from DEC -- much in line with exactly 

 3    what my colleague and I have expressed about the 

 4    other four states that have a model.

 5                 Is that something you would consider 

 6    amending this bill in the near term?  

 7                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

 8    Madam President.  We've had an ongoing 

 9    conversation about this fee issue now for a 

10    couple of years.  If we pass this bill today, it 

11    will be the second time.  We passed it last year, 

12    I believe we passed it the year before as well, 

13    without the fee.  

14                 We're always open to new ideas.  But 

15    as of today, amending the bill of course would 

16    leave it not passable today, and I think it's 

17    important that at this late date in the session 

18    we move forward.  

19                 And again, I will emphasize that I 

20    spoke with a representative of the board of the 

21    New York State Product Stewardship Council about 

22    10 minutes before session started today, and 

23    this -- I assume the same document I have, which 

24    is dated today, I am told is not an official 

25    position of the New York Product Stewardship 


                                                               2155

 1    Council, and that they will be releasing an 

 2    official position by the end of the day.  

 3                 But we have duly considered this 

 4    issue now for several years in the context of 

 5    this EPR program and many others, and we have 

 6    decided in New York State to go forward generally 

 7    by not imposing a specific fixed fee on consumers 

 8    for these programs.  And that is the intent 

 9    reflected in the current version of this bill.

10                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And through you, 

11    Madam President, would the sponsor continue to 

12    yield.  

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

14    sponsor yield?

15                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

16    Madam President.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

18    sponsor yields.  

19                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   The International 

20    Sleep Products Association also put out a 

21    memorandum, this one in opposition on this bill, 

22    pointing out how this impacts the industry and 

23    also correctly pointing to the four states that 

24    have been successful and the models that they've 

25    used in those four states.  


                                                               2156

 1                 Have you read that memo from the 

 2    industry, the people that are impacted here?

 3                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

 4    Madam President.  I believe I have.  I've read -- 

 5    again, much of this material has been around 

 6    since last June when we last debated this bill.  

 7                 I'm not -- I'm not prepared to quote 

 8    that memo, but I am quite aware that the mattress 

 9    industry has chosen to assert that they are 

10    supportive of EPR for mattresses, but oppose this 

11    particular bill because of the fee issue.

12                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And through you, 

13    Madam President, would the sponsor continue to 

14    yield.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

16    sponsor yield?

17                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

18    Madam President.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

20    sponsor yields.

21                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   You keep coming 

22    back to "mattress industry," so I want to talk 

23    about that for a moment.  My colleague earlier 

24    pointed out that foreign producers actually sell 

25    30 percent of the mattresses here in the 


                                                               2157

 1    United States.  We're one of the largest 

 2    importers of mattresses for a number of different 

 3    markets.  

 4                 But I'm not sure if many realize the 

 5    federal government and the International Trade 

 6    Commission have been playing whack-a-mole for 

 7    mattress dumping into markets for a long time.  

 8    In fact, in 2021, under President Biden's 

 9    administration, the Commerce Department imposed 

10    tariffs on mattress imports -- from Turkey, at 

11    20 percent; from Thailand, at 37 percent; from 

12    Malaysia, at 43 percent; from Cambodia, 52; from 

13    Serbia, at 112 percent; and from Vietnam at 

14    668 percent tariffs -- because these countries 

15    were subsidizing mattress exports in order to 

16    push into, dump into our market and try and 

17    squeeze out some manufacturers here in the 

18    United States.

19                 So how does your bill play into that 

20    international whack-a-mole that the federal 

21    government has been doing with foreign producers?  

22                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

23    Madam President.  I'm glad that we're using -- 

24    we're both using the word "dumping" in two 

25    different senses during this debate, this bill 


                                                               2158

 1    being about not dumping mattresses in landfills.  

 2                 But I -- this bill does not have any 

 3    particular bearing on international trade 

 4    disputes or the use of tariffs to address unfair 

 5    trade practices from other countries.  

 6                 I would say the net effect of this 

 7    is to increase regulation.  It probably does, at 

 8    least on the margins, benefit our, you know, home 

 9    mattress industry because manufacturers would be 

10    required to have their brand and their trademark 

11    registered and listed by the DEC in order to have 

12    their mattresses sold legally in New York.  

13                 But it's not particularly aimed to 

14    address those issues.  And, you know, those 

15    issues are principally the province of the 

16    federal government.

17                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And through you, 

18    Madam President, would the sponsor continue to 

19    yield.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

21    sponsor yield?

22                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

23    Madam President.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

25    sponsor yields.  


                                                               2159

 1                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Not sure if 

 2    you're aware, but the tariffs from 2021 didn't 

 3    work.  When I talk about whack-a-mole, last 

 4    spring there was an appeal to the Biden 

 5    administration once again for illegal dumping by 

 6    new countries this time -- by Mexico, 

 7    Bosnia-Herzegovina, Italy, Poland, Philippines, 

 8    Taiwan and Slovenia -- some of those tariffs 

 9    recommended as high as 745 percent to bring the 

10    dumped mattresses down to fair -- or up to fair 

11    market value in the United States.

12                 How will DEC get compliance from a 

13    producer in Slovenia ultimately?  How does that 

14    producer, how are they the ones that pay, versus 

15    the consumer in the State of New York that's 

16    purchasing the mattress?  

17                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

18    Madam President, the producer -- it's -- to be 

19    candid -- well, I do not want to get into the 

20    question of whether Slovenia is dumping or not 

21    dumping.  But presuming there are international 

22    trade practices issues that somebody wants to 

23    address with tariffs, they would be free to do 

24    that.

25                 The way this bill would work is that 


                                                               2160

 1    if a mattress from Slovenia that is made by a 

 2    manufacturer or branded as a -- in a particular 

 3    way that is not registered and subject to an 

 4    approved program by the DEC, would not be 

 5    permitted to be sold in New York.

 6                 And so they would -- somebody -- 

 7    presumably the Slovenian manufacturer doesn't 

 8    presumably come here and sell the mattresses out 

 9    of the back of a truck.  They need somebody to 

10    sell them out of retail.  And if they're doing 

11    so, then they are -- if they're complying with 

12    the program, then their mattress can be sold in 

13    New York.  And if they're not complying with the 

14    program, then their mattress cannot be sold in 

15    New York.

16                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

17    Madam President, would the sponsor continue to 

18    yield?

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

20    sponsor yield?

21                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, 

22    Madam President.  

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

24    sponsor yields.

25                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And for online 


                                                               2161

 1    sales, how are we going to ensure that 

 2    New Yorkers that are buying a bed-in-a-box, that 

 3    the producer of that bed is ultimately, in 

 4    whatever online way they've purchased it -- if 

 5    there's no point-of-sale fee here, you're just 

 6    requiring the industry, as you put it, to put 

 7    this entire program together and not shift any 

 8    cost onto consumers somehow.  

 9                 How do you make sure that those 

10    companies that are manufacturing a bed-in-a-box 

11    and selling it in New York State, how do you make 

12    sure that they're in compliance?  

13                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

14    Madam President, just to respond, I am not 

15    suggesting that no cost would ever be shifted 

16    onto the consumer.  

17                 I am suggesting that creating a 

18    fixed fee that every consumer pays regardless of 

19    the cost to the industry is not a 

20    consumer-friendly practice.  

21                 And so what I'm proposing is that 

22    the industry continue to compete to sell their 

23    product at the best price they can sell it at, 

24    and not -- I'm not suggesting that that is a 

25    cost-free activity.  And I'm not suggesting that 


                                                               2162

 1    the industry won't choose to pass some of that 

 2    cost along to consumers.

 3                 Again, my colleagues are suggesting 

 4    not just that they pass the actual cost on, but 

 5    that we set up-front a fee that consumers have to 

 6    pay regardless of what it actually costs the 

 7    industry to provide this service.

 8                 In terms of how you enforce this, we 

 9    have lots of rules that people need to comply 

10    with if they want to legally sell things into 

11    New York.  If you sell something, for example, to 

12    a New Yorker and you know it's a New Yorker and 

13    you're shipping it to New York, you're required 

14    to collect New York sales tax regardless of 

15    whether you are in New York, whether you're 

16    shipping the product from New York.  I suppose 

17    this would work in a similar way.

18                 But again, the bulk of the -- the 

19    bulk of the mattresses, the great bulk of the 

20    mattresses are selling by -- sold by companies 

21    that are, generally speaking, known retailers or 

22    known direct, you know, companies that are both 

23    producing and selling mattresses.  And my 

24    assumption is that they would not want to engage 

25    in what would be effectively a bootleg mattress 


                                                               2163

 1    sale business to avoid their obligations to -- 

 2    you know, to treat their products responsibly.

 3                 But if --

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

 5    you, Senator.

 6                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   But if they were 

 7    violating the law by selling a mattress that is 

 8    not registered, then DEC would be able to take an 

 9    enforcement action against them.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

11    Walczyk, your debate time is up.

12                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Thank you, 

13    Madam President.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Are 

15    there any other Senators wishing to be heard?

16                 Seeing and hearing none, the debate 

17    is closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.

18                 Senator Gianaris.

19                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

20    we've agreed to restore this to the 

21    noncontroversial calendar.  

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

23    will be restored to the noncontroversial 

24    calendar.

25                 Read the last section.


                                                               2164

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

 2    act shall take effect immediately.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

 4    roll.

 5                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 7    Walczyk to explain his vote.

 8                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Thank you, 

 9    Madam President.  

10                 Briefly, at a time when we are 

11    talking about affordability for New Yorkers, we 

12    shouldn't be creating new bureaucrat boondoggles, 

13    not knowing -- and you saw in debate today, not 

14    knowing what the end cost to consumers will be.  

15                 This bill in fact says the program 

16    shall be free to the consumer, convenient and 

17    adequate to serve the needs of consumers in all 

18    areas of the state on an ongoing basis.  Yet the 

19    sponsor, by his own admission, says, Well, I 

20    fully anticipate that the producers of mattresses 

21    will be shifting those costs onto the consumers.  

22                 So do I.  In the states that have 

23    done mattress recycling programs, they've 

24    attached a fee when you purchase your mattress.  

25    It usually calculates out to a buck or two a year 


                                                               2165

 1    is what you end up paying for that 

 2    thousand-dollars mattress so that it can be 

 3    recycled in those states that have been 

 4    successful in recycling 15 million mattresses 

 5    already there.  

 6                 I would much rather adopt a program 

 7    like that than take on a new boondoggle where we 

 8    don't even know what the cost is going to be and 

 9    who's going to pay for it at the end of the day, 

10    especially at a time when affordability matters 

11    so much to New York's families.  

12                 So I'll be voting no.  Thank you, 

13    Madam President.  

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

15    you, Senator.

16                 Senator Walczyk to be recorded in 

17    the negative.

18                 Announce the results.

19                 Oh, Senator Kavanagh to explain his 

20    vote.

21                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Just -- thank 

22    you.  I know we've had a long debate and you've 

23    heard a lot from me.  Just briefly.  

24                 You know, this bill is part of our 

25    broader effort to ensure that we are handling 


                                                               2166

 1    solid waste in a responsible manner -- in fact, 

 2    not treating it as waste whenever possible.  

 3                 EPR programs have been effective in 

 4    many contexts, including the programs that my 

 5    colleagues on the other side of the aisle are 

 6    extolling the virtues of.  They work because they 

 7    divert valuable materials from landfills and 

 8    other places where we treat something as 

 9    worthless and they divert them back into 

10    productive materials for new economic activity 

11    and new recycling.  

12                 In this case, they in particular 

13    prevent localities from bearing the cost of 

14    disposal.  

15                 And as I noted earlier, the New York 

16    Solid Waste Management Plan notes that almost 

17    12 percent of our entire contribution of 

18    greenhouse gases comes from solid waste in 

19    New York.  It's almost as large as the entire 

20    electricity generation sector in our state.  So 

21    this is a significant problem.  We have a great 

22    solution here.  

23                 And notwithstanding a difference of 

24    opinion on a very minor aspect of this view -- 

25    this bill, I think it's a great step forward that 


                                                               2167

 1    we're taking to support this.  And I 

 2    appreciate it, and I will be voting in the 

 3    affirmative.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 5    Kavanagh to be recorded in the affirmative.

 6                 Announce the results.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 8    Calendar 470, those Senators voting in the 

 9    negative are Senators Ashby, Borrello, Bynoe, 

10    Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Chan, Cooney, Gallivan, 

11    Griffo, Helming, Lanza, Martinez, Mattera, 

12    Murray, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, 

13    Scarcella-Spanton, Stec, Tedisco, Weber and Weik.

14                 Ayes, 38.  Nays, 22.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

16    is passed.

17                 Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

18    reading of today's calendar.

19                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you, 

20    Madam President.  

21                 For the members of the Majority, 

22    there will be an immediate conference following 

23    session.  

24                 And with that, is there any further 

25    business at the desk?


                                                               2168

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   There is 

 2    no further business at the desk.

 3                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to adjourn 

 4    until tomorrow, Tuesday, April 29th, at 

 5    11:00 a.m.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   On 

 7    motion, the Senate stands adjourned until 

 8    Tuesday, April 29th, at 11:00 a.m. 

 9                 The Majority has a conference 

10    immediately following.  

11                 (Whereupon, at 5:12 p.m., the Senate 

12    adjourned.)

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