Regular Session - May 28, 2025

                                                                   4068

 1                NEW YORK STATE SENATE

 2                          

 3                          

 4               THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

 5                          

 6                          

 7                          

 8                          

 9                  ALBANY, NEW YORK

10                    May 28, 2025

11                      3:54 p.m.

12                          

13                          

14                   REGULAR SESSION

15  

16  

17  

18  SENATOR JEREMY COONEY, Acting President

19  ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary

20  

21  

22  

23  

24  

25  


                                                               4069

 1                P R O C E E D I N G S

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 3    Senate will come to order.  

 4                 I ask everyone to please rise and 

 5    recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

 6                 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 

 7    the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Pastor 

 9    Jeremy Scott, of the Bruderhof Community in 

10    Rifton, New York, will deliver today's 

11    invocation.

12                 Pastor.  

13                 PASTOR SCOTT:   Good afternoon.  

14                 It's an honor to offer a prayer at 

15    the start of this session.  

16                 I'd first like to recognize and 

17    thank you for hosting the garden brunch event 

18    today, my district Senator, Michelle Hinchey, 

19    Senator James Skoufis, Senator James Tedisco, and 

20    Senator Mark Walczyk.  It was a beautiful event 

21    today outdoors, and God was gracious with 

22    providing us with good weather.  

23                 So before I pray, I have a short 

24    reading from scripture, from the Book of Isaiah, 

25    Chapter 1, Verse 17.  And here the Prophet Isaiah 


                                                               4070

 1    gives us a clear call to moral leadership and to 

 2    social justice and to standing up for the 

 3    vulnerable:  "Learn to do right; seek justice.  

 4    Defend the oppressed.  Take up the cause of the 

 5    fatherless.  Plead the case of the widow."

 6                 I now invite you all to join me in 

 7    prayer.

 8                 Lord our God, today we lift up our 

 9    hearts in gratitude and in the spirit of 

10    community building.  We give thanks that Your 

11    mighty name and the name of Your Son Jesus are 

12    proclaimed and uplifted here today.  

13                 We're grateful to be in the New York 

14    State Senate to pray for our Senators, public 

15    servants of conviction and courage who stand up 

16    for our freedoms and work for justice for all.  

17                 Stemming from the Anabaptist 

18    Christian tradition, my community, the Bruderhof, 

19    came to New York as a place of welcome.  We're 

20    grateful to call New York our home, a place where 

21    free speech, free exercise of faith, and a 

22    healthy separation of church and state are 

23    respected.

24                 This week, with the passing of 

25    Congressman Charlie Rangel, we gratefully 


                                                               4071

 1    remember his life and service.  

 2                 Dear Lord, You have placed great 

 3    responsibility of leadership in the hands of 

 4    those gathered here.  We ask that You bless each 

 5    one of them with wisdom, understanding and 

 6    integrity as decisions are made that shape the 

 7    lives of millions across this great State of 

 8    New York.  May their labor today and every day be 

 9    done with Your guidance and inspiration.

10                 As we begin the session, we also 

11    remember in prayer all who sacrifice daily for 

12    our communities, our state, and our nation.  We 

13    pray for the emergency workers who respond in 

14    times of crisis, especially those who have served 

15    tirelessly in response to the recent flooding 

16    across the Hudson Valley and Southern Tier.  

17                 We remember our law enforcement 

18    officers, firefighters, and healthcare 

19    professionals.  Shield them with Your protection 

20    and sustain them with Your grace.  

21                 Lord, we are mindful of the 

22    challenges before this body.  Let every bill 

23    considered and every vote cast be rooted in a 

24    desire for charity and truth, remembering that 

25    the best measure of who we are is how we treat 


                                                               4072

 1    those most vulnerable.

 2                 Dear Lord, You have taught us not 

 3    just to love You, but to love our neighbor.  We 

 4    ask for Your guidance to do that in word and in 

 5    deed.  

 6                 May the Senate be a place of 

 7    thoughtful discourse, honest leadership, and 

 8    faithful service to the people.  Help us all, 

 9    inside and outside these walls, to be citizens of 

10    peace and unity.  

11                 Grant Your blessing on this Senate 

12    session today.  May Your favor rest upon all who 

13    seek Your will and understanding.

14                 We ask all this in the name of 

15    Jesus Christ our Lord, amen.  

16                 (Response of "Amen.")

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

18    you, Pastor.  

19                 Reading of the Journal.

20                 THE SECRETARY:   In Senate, Tuesday, 

21    May 27, 2025, the Senate met pursuant to 

22    adjournment.  The Journal of Saturday, May 24, 

23    2025, was read and approved.  On motion, the 

24    Senate adjourned.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Without 


                                                               4073

 1    objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

 2                 Presentation of petitions.

 3                 Messages from the Assembly.

 4                 The Secretary will read.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator 

 6    Stewart-Cousins moves to discharge, from the 

 7    Committee on Cities 2, Assembly Bill Number 5298 

 8    and substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 

 9    Number 433, Third Reading Calendar 997.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   So 

11    ordered.

12                 Messages from the Governor.

13                 Reports of standing committees.

14                 Reports of select committees.

15                 Communications and reports from 

16    state officers.  

17                 Motions and resolutions.

18                 Senator Gianaris.

19                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Good afternoon, 

20    Mr. President.  

21                 Amendments are offered to the 

22    following Third Reading Calendar bills:  

23                 By Senator Bynoe, page 25, 

24    Calendar Number 651, Senate Print 5989;  

25                 Senator Harckham, page 62, 


                                                               4074

 1    Calendar Number 1238, Senate Print 7362;

 2                 Senator Comrie, page 16, 

 3    Calendar Number 401, Senate Print 98; 

 4                 Senator Cooney, page 63, 

 5    Calendar Number 1244, president 7955; 

 6                 And Senator Chris Ryan, page 62, 

 7    Calendar Number 1233, Senate Print 6265. 

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 9    amendments are received, and the bills will 

10    retain their place on the Third Reading Calendar.

11                 Senator Gianaris.

12                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   I also wish to 

13    call up the following bills, which were recalled 

14    from the Assembly and are now at the desk:  

15                 Senate Print Numbers 5275 and 7525.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

17    Secretary will read.

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

19    459, Senate Print 5275, by Senator Bailey, an act 

20    to amend the Education Law.

21                 Calendar Number 879, Senate Print 

22    7525, by Senator Fahy, an act to amend 

23    Chapter 405 of the Laws of 2005.  

24                 Calendar Number 1241, Senate Print 

25    7760, by Senator Griffo, an act to amend the 


                                                               4075

 1    Highway Law.

 2                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   I move to 

 3    reconsider the vote by which these bills were 

 4    passed.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 6    Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.

 7                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 55.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bills 

10    are restored to their place on the Third Reading 

11    Calendar.

12                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   I offer the 

13    following amendments.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

15    amendments are received.

16                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Please recognize 

17    Senator Lanza.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

19    Lanza.

20                 SENATOR LANZA:   Thank you, 

21    Senator Gianaris.

22                 Mr. President, I wish to call up 

23    Senator Griffo's bill, Print Number 7760, 

24    recalled from the Assembly, which is now at the 

25    desk.


                                                               4076

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 2    Secretary will read.

 3                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, I 

 4    think we already did that one when I read out the 

 5    list, so -- 

 6                 (Laughter.)

 7                 SENATOR LANZA:   Mr. President, I 

 8    trust him.  I trust Senator Gianaris and that it 

 9    was done properly.

10                 Additionally, Mr. President, on 

11    page 45 I offer the following amendments to 

12    Calendar Number 1067, Senate Print Number 2110C, 

13    and ask that said bill retain its place on 

14    Third Reading Calendar.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

16    amendments are received, and the bill will retain 

17    its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

18                 Senator Gianaris.

19                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Please recognize 

20    Senator Skoufis for an introduction.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

22    Skoufis for an introduction.

23                 SENATOR SKOUFIS:   Thank you very 

24    much, Mr. President.  

25                 I rise with excitement today, as I 


                                                               4077

 1    have for the past many years, to welcome the 

 2    valedictorians and salutatorians from throughout 

 3    the 42nd Senate District in Orange County.  

 4                 And this is my annual day where I 

 5    get to boast to my colleagues about how we are 

 6    the smartest Senate district in all of New York.  

 7                 (Laughter.)

 8                 SENATOR SKOUFIS:   You know, these 

 9    are some of the hardest-working, most dedicated 

10    students in the Hudson Valley who, yes, 

11    academically have worked tirelessly and 

12    persevered, but, almost to a person, additionally 

13    go out and participate in so much community 

14    service, are leaders in their classrooms and 

15    outside their classrooms alike.  

16                 And likewise, I'm also really 

17    delighted to welcome and acknowledge the parents 

18    and the faculty members who are here joining 

19    them, because certainly their success is a 

20    reflection of the incredible support that they've 

21    had around each of them.

22                 Certainly I wish them and their 

23    families incredible futures.  This is the 

24    beginning of their success as they graduate 

25    high school.  And I look forward to following all 


                                                               4078

 1    of their careers after their graduation in just a 

 2    couple of months from now.

 3                 I'll recognize the folks who were 

 4    here, all of the valedictorians and 

 5    salutatorians.  A couple of them unfortunately 

 6    had to depart, given our late start today, but 

 7    the large majority of them are still here.  

 8                 From Warwick Valley High School we 

 9    have Gisela Gujar, salutatorian.  

10                 From Cornwall, Andrew Wu, 

11    valedictorian.  

12                 From Minisink, Christopher Rickard, 

13    valedictorian, and Mia Abruzzese, salutatorian.  

14                 From Washingtonville High School, 

15    Olivia Tran, valedictorian, and Sophie 

16    DeCarvalho, salutatorian.  

17                 From Goshen Central High School, 

18    Kiran Foster, valedictorian, and Henry Dong, 

19    salutatorian.  

20                 From Pine Bush High School, 

21    Jeffrey Palma, valedictorian.  

22                 From George F. Baker High School, 

23    Casey Juance, valedictorian.  

24                 From Port Jervis High School, 

25    Julia Elston, valedictorian, and 


                                                               4079

 1    Francesca Moliterno, salutatorian.  

 2                 From S.S. Seward, 

 3    Elizabeth Scheuermann, salutatorian.  

 4                 And from James I. O'Neill 

 5    High School, we have Victoria Evangelista, 

 6    valedictorian, and Benjamin Yankovich, 

 7    salutatorian.  

 8                 Congratulations to each and every 

 9    one of you on your incredible success.  Wishing 

10    you nothing but the best.  

11                 And I ask you, Mr. President, if 

12    you'll please afford them all the cordialities 

13    and privileges of the floor.

14                 Thank you.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

16    you, Senator Skoufis.

17                 To our guests, I welcome you on 

18    behalf of the Senate.  We extend to you the 

19    privileges and courtesies of this house.  

20                 Please rise and be recognized.

21                 (Standing ovation.)

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

23    Gianaris.

24                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

25    let's move on to Resolution 1099, by 


                                                               4080

 1    Senator Cleare, read that resolution's title and 

 2    recognize Senator Cleare.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 4    Secretary will read.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Resolution 1099, by 

 6    Senator Cleare, mourning the death of former U.S. 

 7    Representative Charles B. Rangel, distinguished 

 8    public servant, statesman, and beloved member of 

 9    the Harlem community.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

11    Cleare on the resolution.

12                 SENATOR CLEARE:   Thank you, 

13    Mr. President.

14                 And a special thanks to my co-prime 

15    sponsors of this resolution, Leader 

16    Stewart-Cousins and Senators Jackson and Serrano.

17                 One of the top synonyms for Harlem 

18    is Charlie Rangel.  The two were absolutely and 

19    irrevocably inseparable.  

20                 His representation spanned several 

21    generations.  It started in the Korean War and 

22    lasted through the formation of One Harlem and 

23    the fight for affordable housing in Central and 

24    West Harlem in 2025.  

25                 Charlie Rangel was the first person 


                                                               4081

 1    I ever voted for.  

 2                 So tireless was his advocacy and so 

 3    omnipresent his personage in Harlem that you 

 4    thought he just might live forever.  His 46 years 

 5    in Congress are an absolute master class of how 

 6    to take care of your district at home, fight for 

 7    equity and justice everywhere, and become a 

 8    statesman abroad.

 9                 He served in the United States Army 

10    from 1948 to 1952 and was a highly decorated 

11    Korean War veteran.  And just yesterday, over 

12    70 years later, he was added to the New York 

13    State Senate Veterans Hall of Fame, which was 

14    planned long before his passing.  We didn't know 

15    that he wouldn't be here.

16                 While there are many lessons we can 

17    learn from the representative style of Charlie 

18    Rangel, two stand out in my mind.  One, your job 

19    is to always be present for the people and to 

20    give them the faith and confidence that you will 

21    work to solve their problems, whether it be a 

22    Social Security or veterans' benefits issue, 

23    whatever the case.  

24                 Two is that the underdog and the 

25    underrepresented are the most important people to 


                                                               4082

 1    raise your voice on behalf of.  Chair Rangel did 

 2    this continuously in his career on behalf of the 

 3    Black poor of Harlem, veterans, seniors, 

 4    immigrants, young people of color sent to war, 

 5    and so many more.  

 6                 In addition, Charlie Rangel 

 7    supported and voted for higher education 

 8    opportunity programs such as HEOP as a member of 

 9    the New York State Assembly.  

10                 He was the author of many of the 

11    original affordable housing legislation passed at 

12    the federal level. 

13                 He was one of the great leaders of 

14    the anti-apartheid movement for over a decade, 

15    with the Rangel Amendment, and in 1987 introduced 

16    the Budget Reconciliation Act which subjected 

17    U.S. corporations operating in South Africa to 

18    double taxation if they did not divest from South 

19    Africa.

20                 In 2009 and in 2010, he was 

21    instrumental in the negotiations which ultimately 

22    led to the enactment of Obamacare, one of the 

23    first times in our nation's history that 

24    healthcare was recognized as a human right.

25                 I'm comforted to know that so many 


                                                               4083

 1    of us here in the State Legislature come from the 

 2    Charlie Rangel school and were able to be 

 3    mentored by him, including myself, Senator 

 4    Jackson, and Members Wright, Gibbs, Taylor and so 

 5    many more.  

 6                 In these uncertain times, I leave 

 7    you with a timeless quote by Charles Rangel -- 

 8    which, coincidentally, falls in line with the 

 9    scripture read earlier with our invocation today.  

10                 He said:  "We all have a large stake 

11    in preserving our democracy, but I maintain that 

12    those without power in our society, the Black, 

13    the brown, the poor of all colors, have the 

14    largest stake -- not because we have the most to 

15    lose, but because we have worked the hardest and 

16    given the most for what we have achieved."

17                 It is hard to know a world without 

18    Charlie Rangel.  He has been in my household 

19    since I could remember.  I have seen his 

20    newsletters.  I've seen his name on the ballot.  

21                 He lived, he loved, he served, he 

22    died in his beloved Harlem.  Let us remember the 

23    Lion of Lenox Avenue in all that we do.  

24                 And may God be pleased.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 


                                                               4084

 1    you, Senator.

 2                 Leader Stewart-Cousins on the 

 3    resolution.

 4                 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS:   Thank 

 5    you, Mr. President.

 6                 And I really want to thank you, 

 7    Senator Cleare, for really invoking the presence 

 8    of the Lion of Lenox Avenue here in this chamber.  

 9                 Yes, he was a mentor not only to 

10    New York City; as you said, he was way beyond 

11    that.  And I like to consider myself someone who 

12    too was mentored by Congressman Charles Rangel.

13                 And when he came up to Westchester, 

14    he would -- he had his own little gang.  There 

15    was a Gang of Four down there, but then when he 

16    came to Westchester there was David Ford and 

17    there was Paul Redd and there was a whole 'nother 

18    group of aspiring young Black activists who 

19    looked, as we all did, to Charlie to help us 

20    chart our course.

21                 And he was very influential in 

22    helping so many of us get to the places we got 

23    to, and allowed us to understand how powerful we 

24    could be when we took to heart that we were the 

25    voice of people who hadn't always been heard.


                                                               4085

 1                 And of course he broke so many 

 2    barriers.  He was one of the founding members of 

 3    the Congressional Black Caucus.  And of course he 

 4    was the first African-American chair of the House 

 5    Ways and Means Committee.  

 6                 Charles Rangel, they said, is 

 7    someone who, although he's transitioned, his 

 8    legacy will live far beyond I'm sure he ever 

 9    imagined -- his influence, his stature, and his 

10    always being able to talk to everyone, no matter 

11    who.  He always found a way to touch your heart.  

12                 I'm so happy, again, Senator Cleare, 

13    that you were able to induct him into our 

14    Veterans Hall of Fame, one of the moments that my 

15    honoree had, Randy Jurgensen.  He was so pleased 

16    to be inducted yesterday with Congressman Rangel 

17    because he actually served in Korea with him.  

18                 Randy was born in Harlem, lived in 

19    Harlem, raised in Harlem, and served in Korea 

20    with Congressman Rangel.  And he told me that it 

21    used to be Randy and Charlie.  And so he was so 

22    happy that yesterday -- even posthumously to be 

23    honored by the Senate -- it was once again 

24    Randy and Charlie.  

25                 And forever it will be 


                                                               4086

 1    Congressman Rangel, the Lion of Lenox Avenue.

 2                 Thank you.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

 4    you, Majority Leader.

 5                 Senator Jackson on the resolution.

 6                 SENATOR JACKSON:   Thank you.

 7                 I rise today with a heavy heart and 

 8    proud spirit to honor a man whose name will echo 

 9    not only through the chambers of Congress, but 

10    through the stoops and storefronts and street 

11    corners of Harlem:  Congressman Charles B. 

12    Rangel. 

13                 Charles Rangel was not just a 

14    Congressman, he was a combat veteran, a 

15    constitutional craftsman, and a champion of 

16    people who walked with Harlem in their heart and 

17    justice in his jaw.

18                 For over four decades, he turned the 

19    corridors of Congress into a battleground for 

20    equity.  And long before that, he faced enemy 

21    fire on a frozen Korean hillside, earning medals 

22    of valor but never asking for praise.  

23                 He became more than a legislator.  

24    He became the conscience of a nation:  A founding 

25    member of the Congressional Black Caucus, a 


                                                               4087

 1    fighter for the voiceless who understood that 

 2    real power isn't about titles, it's about 

 3    service, about showing up for your people -- not 

 4    for clout, and all for change.  

 5                 He was a master technician with a 

 6    moral spine, the first African-American to chair 

 7    the powerful Ways and Means Committee.  But 

 8    Charlie's leadership wasn't defined by position, 

 9    it was defined by purpose.  He carried Harlem on 

10    his shoulders and the soul of America in his 

11    stride.  

12                 And he never forgot where he came 

13    from -- not the corner of 125th Street and 

14    Lenox Avenue, not the families who raised him, 

15    not the movement that made him.  

16                 And let's be absolutely clear.  

17    Charlie Rangel was never polite about injustice.  

18    He was surgical.  He could roast you with humor, 

19    school you with facts, and still have you 

20    laughing at the end.  That's Harlem.  That was 

21    Rangel.  

22                 And for me, he wasn't just a giant 

23    in headlines, he was present in his grin.  He 

24    encouraged me when I needed it most.  He made 

25    time for conversation, offered wisdom without 


                                                               4088

 1    ego, and reminded me that leadership is about 

 2    love:  For the people, for the struggle, the next 

 3    generation.

 4                 We were bound by a shared belief in 

 5    justice, service, and the power of community.  I 

 6    personally stand here because leaders like him 

 7    paved the way, because he dared to make 

 8    government reflect the communities too often 

 9    ignored.  He didn't just break barriers; he 

10    dismantled excuses.  

11                 So today, we not only honor his 

12    memory, let us carry his courage into the laws we 

13    pass and the fights that we choose.  Let us 

14    legislate with the same fire that fueled his 

15    decades of service.  Because Congressman Rangel 

16    never settled for symbolism.  He demanded 

17    substance.  And so must we.  

18                 May his legacy not rest in stone, 

19    but move through us in policy, purpose, and in 

20    power.

21                 Rest well, Charles, Harlem Lion, 

22    American fighter.  You're one of one.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

24    you, Senator.

25                 Senator Serrano on the resolution.


                                                               4089

 1                 SENATOR SERRANO:   Thank you very 

 2    much, Mr. President.

 3                 It's with tremendous sadness and 

 4    with a heavy heart that I rise here today to pay 

 5    tribute to an amazing human being in former 

 6    Congressman Charlie Rangel.  

 7                 And I am so grateful to Senator 

 8    Cordell Cleare and our leader, Andrea 

 9    Stewart-Cousins, and all of our colleagues for 

10    putting forth this resolution in honor of his 

11    tremendous accomplishments.  

12                 When I was first elected to the 

13    Senate 21 years ago to represent East Harlem, 

14    which was in the footprint of his congressional 

15    district, he was extremely gracious and became 

16    instantaneously a mentor and a friend to me.  

17                 East Harlem was very important to 

18    him, and he understood the cultural significance 

19    of every neighborhood.  And he was so present.  

20    And it was amazing to see how seemingly 

21    effortlessly he would navigate the politics, that 

22    he would navigate the situations with grace, with 

23    charm, with intellect.  

24                 He would put us all at ease and 

25    understanding that there was a true leader there 


                                                               4090

 1    who was going to give us the sage advice and also 

 2    find joy along the way.  

 3                 I would love when Congressman Rangel 

 4    would invite me to his office.  It was like being 

 5    in a mini-museum.  There was not one inch of the 

 6    desk that did not have some figure, some 

 7    artistic -- something of artistic significance.  

 8    It was filled with history.  

 9                 And I saw and I learned that doing 

10    this job was so historical in nature and so 

11    cultural in nature.  And he embraced that.  And 

12    just being in his office, you felt all of that.  

13    And you felt the excitement that he had for his 

14    job.

15                 And I remember, in these years, he 

16    would speak about -- and I'm just paraphrasing 

17    here -- the joy of growing older, in that you do 

18    what is right and you no longer worry about what 

19    people think of you because you're doing what is 

20    good in your heart.  And it seemed so liberating.  

21    Such a simple thing for him to say, but it was 

22    such a liberating idea that he was bringing 

23    forth.

24                 So to my friend and mentor who not 

25    only mentored me, but my father, in his years in 


                                                               4091

 1    Congress, and was a tremendous leader, someone 

 2    who was -- you never had to look for 

 3    Charlie Rangel.  He was everywhere.  He was 

 4    building coalitions at a time when we needed 

 5    that, and we need that now more than ever.  He 

 6    understood that coalition building was the way to 

 7    lead.

 8                 So -- so grateful to his family for 

 9    giving us Charlie Rangel more than they probably 

10    had him, because he was with us all the time.

11                 So with that, I conclude, and again 

12    thank you for the resolution.  

13                 I vote aye.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

15    you, Senator.

16                 Senator Bailey on the resolution.

17                 SENATOR BAILEY:   Thank you, 

18    Mr. President.

19                 Thank you to everybody in this 

20    chamber.  Thank you, Senator Cleare, for your 

21    courage, your bravery.  I know how hard it was to 

22    get through those remarks.  Madam Leader, thank 

23    you for always leading eloquently.  And everybody 

24    else.  

25                 And so growing up Black, there are 


                                                               4092

 1    certain names that inspire like certain cultural 

 2    feeling, right?  Even if you didn't get a chance 

 3    to meet them, even if you didn't know them, they 

 4    weren't from your neighborhood.  The Gang of Four 

 5    meant something even in the Bronx.  

 6                 When you heard David Dinkins and you 

 7    heard Basil Paterson and you heard Percy Sutton 

 8    and when you heard Charlie Rangel, it stirred 

 9    something in you.  And so Charlie Rangel was a 

10    name that transcended politics.  

11                 You didn't -- like you might not 

12    have been registered to vote, you might not have 

13    known who your local electeds were, but you knew 

14    who Charlie Rangel was.  Because as the Lion of 

15    Lenox, you knew that he fought for you.  Even if 

16    you didn't live in his district, he fought for 

17    you.

18                 I saw a line somewhere, you know, 

19    reading his bio, coming back from the Korean War, 

20    being a high school dropout and then getting a 

21    degree and a law degree within six years?  That's 

22    the power of a lion.  The heart of a lion.  The 

23    heart of a champion and somebody who would not be 

24    silenced.

25                 I had the chance to meet him as an 


                                                               4093

 1    adult, and it was one of like maybe five or 

 2    10 people in my life I've been starstruck by.  I 

 3    found another quote online that talked about 

 4    something that I experienced that one time, the 

 5    first time that I met Charlie Rangel at 

 6    Tracey Towers in the Bronx, because he had just 

 7    been drawn into the Bronx and the Bronx was 

 8    welcoming, you know, the legend of Harlem.  

 9                 And there was something that -- 

10    somebody said something online and they said 

11    Charlie Rangel had the ability to make you feel 

12    like you were the only person in the room when he 

13    was talking to you.

14                 I felt that that day when I spoke to 

15    him.  The room was packed full of people, all in 

16    line waiting to have a conversation with him, but 

17    I felt like I was the only person in the room.  

18                 And he said something to me which 

19    maybe was a throwaway line, but I never forgot 

20    it:  "Do good in this world, young brother."  And 

21    it stuck with me.

22                 Wearing my other hat, we did a 

23    tribute, we had an event, and he was the headline 

24    event and it was on Zoom during the height of 

25    COVID.  There were more people on that Zoom to 


                                                               4094

 1    tune in for Charlie Rangel being there than any 

 2    other Zoom that I've seen.  They didn't just want 

 3    to be in the room with the Lion of Lenox, they 

 4    wanted to be on the Zoom boxes with him too, 

 5    because he meant that much.

 6                 I mean, folks like him were in 

 7    uncharted territory.  There was no -- I got into 

 8    the game when there was a caucus.  I got here 

 9    when I had people to look up to, to have mentors, 

10    people that had done this.  Nobody had done what 

11    he had done before.  And it was not easy.

12                 So I just want to make sure that we 

13    cement his legacy here.  And at some point in the 

14    very near future there's going to be a street 

15    sign put up for him.  There's going to be a 

16    street renamed -- maybe there's going to be a 

17    whole block renamed after him.

18                 And when that happens, it's 

19    important to make sure that the young people who 

20    are going to walk by that street sign every 

21    single day knew who he was, what he stood for, 

22    and what he did for them, even if they never got 

23    a chance to meet him.

24                 I thank him for everything he did 

25    for me and everybody else in this room, 


                                                               4095

 1    Mr. President.  I vote aye.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

 3    you, Senator.

 4                 Senator Sanders on the resolution.

 5                 SENATOR SANDERS:   Thank you, 

 6    Madam Leader.  Thank you, Senator Cleare.

 7                 I just want to draw your attention 

 8    to just one small aspect of a giant's life, and 

 9    that is of course his military service, where he 

10    earned a Purple Heart and a Bronze Star.  Both 

11    are very significant.  

12                 The Purple Heart, of course, is 

13    given to those who are wounded in combat, wounded 

14    in combat.  But the Bronze Star is given to you 

15    based on valor, based on leadership.  You have to 

16    do something above and beyond the course of duty.  

17    Just being there is good, but helping to win is 

18    better, much better.  And he certainly won.  

19                 So that's one of the first places 

20    that you will see his leadership, where you start 

21    to see the emergence of this lion, where he 

22    distinguished himself in battle.  

23                 Of course he came back, and unlike 

24    so many others, he decided to continue the 

25    battle -- the battle against injustice, the 


                                                               4096

 1    battle against things wrong.  He fortified 

 2    himself by going to school, by making sure he had 

 3    all of the documents necessary.  

 4                 He joined with other titans.  You've 

 5    heard David Dinkins' name mentioned, who was a 

 6    Marine, mind you.  Percy Sutton and Basil 

 7    Paterson.  They became the Gang of Four, shaped 

 8    by war, shaped by things around them, just as we 

 9    would have leaders in the days to come further 

10    shaped by the wars that we find ourselves in.

11                 And war he understood, this 

12    Congressman Rangel, that you cannot win it by 

13    yourself.  You can do many things in war, but you 

14    can't win a battle by yourself.  You can be 

15    instrumental, but you can't win it by yourself.  

16    And that aided him in understanding how to 

17    navigate Congress, how to use those strategies 

18    and tactics to take the hill down in D.C., which 

19    is quite the hill to take.

20                 So I want to finish -- because he 

21    never left Korea alone to some degree, he was so 

22    created, if you wish -- "shaped" is a better 

23    word -- by Korea.  Whenever he had a problem, 

24    whenever there was a difficulty that people 

25    presented him and said, "Oh, you're having a bad 


                                                               4097

 1    day, these things are bad," he would laugh and he 

 2    would remind you that he was in Korea and he 

 3    would say "I've never had a bad day since."  

 4                 (Laughter.)

 5                 SENATOR SANDERS:   And that's 

 6    something that we all need to keep in mind, that 

 7    he could go through the absolute worst.  

 8                 And those who have seen battle, I 

 9    salute you.  And we all should remember and take 

10    the worst experience and remember that we'll 

11    never have a bad day since.  If he was able to do 

12    it, then maybe the rest of us can.

13                 I salute you, Congressman Rangel.  

14    You will always be "Congressman" to me.  

15                 And I vote yes.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

17    you, Senator.

18                 Senator Parker on the resolution.

19                 SENATOR PARKER:   Thank you, 

20    Mr. President.

21                 Let me rise first to thank my 

22    colleague Senator Cleare for bringing forth this 

23    important resolution.  And really just wanted to 

24    add my voice to those who are memorializing 

25    Congressman Charles B. Rangel.  


                                                               4098

 1                 How do you -- how do you remember a 

 2    legend?  I mean, we've gone through here all of 

 3    the deeds that he's accomplished, whether it's in 

 4    the military, his academic success.  And no one 

 5    mentioned he actually worked in the Manhattan 

 6    DA's office as a young lawyer.

 7                 Obviously 46 years in the Congress, 

 8    heading the most powerful committee in Congress.  

 9    Not just the dean of the Harlem delegation, but 

10    really the dean of black politics in the country 

11    at that time.

12                 Somebody who defined the way that 

13    Black politics happened.  And I remind you that 

14    politics is about power.  And he taught our 

15    community about what power really was and about 

16    how to access that power and use it for the 

17    people who really needed it.  

18                 That was the critical piece, is that 

19    he always reminded us that power for power's sake 

20    was not the goal, but it was really about 

21    addressing the needs of the least of those in our 

22    communities.

23                 What wasn't mentioned is that when 

24    he came on the political scene, he beat a legend, 

25    that in 1970 he beat Adam Clayton Powell, Jr., 


                                                               4099

 1    who was a legend in his own right, and built upon 

 2    that legend.  

 3                 He is somebody who not only do I 

 4    stand on his shoulders metaphorically, but -- and 

 5    not just every African-American legislator, but 

 6    all of us.  Anybody who's come into public 

 7    service and said, I want to help my community, 

 8    and I'm going to go to the halls of power and 

 9    make sure that the voices of my community are 

10    heard:  You are standing on the shoulders of 

11    Charlie Rangel.  Because he has been one of those 

12    voices for, you know, decades that has really 

13    been at the forefront at every level, making sure 

14    that our community is properly represented.

15                 And so I say that we should not 

16    remember a legend, but we should honor his memory 

17    by continuing to live his legacy.  That we 

18    hopefully will use this moment to rededicate 

19    ourselves to the kind of exemplar that Charlie B. 

20    Rangel provided for us as public servants.  

21                 And not to mention, on this second 

22    annual Prince Hall Day, that he was a proud 

23    Prince Hall Mason, belonging to Joppa Lodge 

24    No. 55.  And so even, you know, in his civic life 

25    he found ways to contribute to his community.


                                                               4100

 1                 And so thank you again, 

 2    Senator Cleare, for bringing this important 

 3    resolution to the floor.  Thank my colleagues for 

 4    their thoughtful words.  

 5                 I think, along with Senator Serrano, 

 6    I also have a lot of personal fond memories of 

 7    his mentorship of me as I worked, you know, for 

 8    H. Carl McCall, a former member of this body and, 

 9    as the State Comptroller, the first 

10    African-American elected statewide.  I often saw 

11    him in my duties as a staffer.  

12                 And I will never forget, Jamaal, 

13    that when I first ran for the Senate I went to an 

14    event to ask for somebody's endorsement and he 

15    was there, he was running in the same area, and 

16    for some reason, you know, my appointment was 

17    just first.  Right?  So I'm speaking at the 

18    event.  And then afterwards he's like, "Kevin, 

19    come here."  He's like, "Oh, my God, I never 

20    heard you speak before."  (Laughing.)  

21                 And when I tell you that that made 

22    -- like made my entire life, that Charlie Rangel 

23    had recognized me and had gave me just a little 

24    head nod, that I was somebody who could make it 

25    in public service.


                                                               4101

 1                 But in the same way, Senator Bailey, 

 2    every time you would see him, he would encourage 

 3    you to make sure that you were in fact making a 

 4    difference in whatever way you were engaged in 

 5    public service.

 6                 And I won't forget that.  And I hope 

 7    none of us forget it.  And I hope that we all 

 8    find ways to add to the legacy that he has grown 

 9    so richly here in the State of New York.

10                 Thank you, Mr. President.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

12    you, Senator.

13                 Senator Hoylman-Sigal on the 

14    resolution.

15                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Thank you, 

16    Mr. President.

17                 I rise -- I want to thank 

18    Senator Cleare for her stirring words.

19                 I wanted to point out, well, growing 

20    up, Congressman Rangel to me was a figure on 

21    television.  I would see him on ABC World News 

22    Tonight and think to myself, who is that 

23    amazingly charismatic figure?  And it was, you 

24    know, such a pleasure, a joy to meet him years 

25    later.


                                                               4102

 1                 But I want to point out something 

 2    which concerns Congressman Rangel's attitude 

 3    toward civil rights beyond his own community.  

 4    Back in 2015 he was the prime sponsor of the 

 5    legislation to correct the record of service 

 6    members discharged due to sexual orientation.  

 7    And as many of us know, over decades LGBTQ 

 8    service members were routinely discharged 

 9    dishonorably because of their sexual orientation.  

10    Not only were they dishonorably discharged, they 

11    were denied every benefit afforded to service 

12    members.

13                 So Congressman Rangel introduced a 

14    bill to change that.  It was called the Restore 

15    Honor to Service Members Act.  And he said he was 

16    proud to introduce it as a Korean War veteran.  

17    And I think of the fact that he nearly died in a 

18    major war in Korea, where his fellow infantrymen 

19    were shot.  And he prayed in the cold and 

20    survived.  

21                 So I wonder what motivated him.  But 

22    I have to think that he knew some LGBTQ service 

23    members himself and served with them.  

24                 He said, "Our veterans risk their 

25    lives for our country, and it is crucial that 


                                                               4103

 1    those discharged from the armed services due to 

 2    their sexual orientation receive the recognition 

 3    and benefits they deserve.

 4                 "The Restore Honor to Service 

 5    Members Act streamlines this process, ensuring 

 6    their service is respected.  It's about time we 

 7    paid proper tribute to the veterans who deserve 

 8    to be honored for their valiant service to our 

 9    country.  Seeking redress is not only the right 

10    thing to do but will also correct historical 

11    injustice."

12                 Well, in 2019, Mr. President, we 

13    looked at Congressman Rangel's bill.  And what 

14    did we do?  In true Albany fashion, we copied it.  

15    And we thought we should recreate Congressman 

16    Rangel's Restoration of Honor Act here in the 

17    State of New York.  And we did that very thing in 

18    2019.  

19                 So it's a tribute to 

20    Congressman Rangel that LGBTQ service members who 

21    were discharged honorably are now entitled to 

22    every benefit afforded to them by New York State 

23    thanks to Charlie Rangel.

24                 I vote aye.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 


                                                               4104

 1    you, Senator.

 2                 Senator Comrie on the resolution.

 3                 SENATOR COMRIE:   Thank you, 

 4    Mr. President.  I rise today to speak on today's 

 5    resolution.

 6                 I want to thank Senator Cleare and 

 7    Leader Stewart-Cousins for letting this 

 8    resolution come to the floor so that people could 

 9    speak about a true giant, a true trailblazer, a 

10    true champion for our entire nation.

11                 I had the opportunity to meet 

12    Charlie Rangel through my predecessor in the 

13    City Council, Archie Spigner, who was the first 

14    Black elected official in Queens.  And to me, 

15    Charlie Rangel and David Dinkins and Percy Sutton 

16    would regularly come to the Guy R. Brewer United 

17    Democratic Club that Archie was part of.  Charlie 

18    knew his responsibility as being a person that 

19    shaped everyone.  And the three of them had 

20    opportunities, and they would sit down with 

21    Archie Spigner.  And they understood that they 

22    had to plan for the entire city.  They had to 

23    bring in people that wanted to make things happen 

24    and change people's lives.  

25                 And Archie Spigner at the time 


                                                               4105

 1    served in the City Council in a leadership 

 2    capacity, and made sure that Percy Sutton was 

 3    able to get the first minority cable program in 

 4    the city, giving him a chance to operate a cable 

 5    station way back in the '80s.  

 6                 Charlie Rangel and the Gang of Four 

 7    didn't just limit themselves to working in 

 8    Harlem.  They worked all over this country trying 

 9    to instill in people, like Senator Bailey said, 

10    giving people a battery on their back, a pat on 

11    their head, an opportunity to understand that 

12    they could be better people just by following a 

13    simple mantra:  Being good to everybody.

14                 Charlie Rangel understood the power 

15    of cooperation.  He understood the power of 

16    working across the different aisles.

17                 I was not surprised to hear from 

18    many Republicans, like Peter King, who talked 

19    about how they worked with Congressman Rangel on 

20    getting things done, making sure that even during 

21    that time that there was a bipartisan effort to 

22    focus on things that were most important.  

23                 And I think that's what I would want 

24    to talk most about today, the ability to make 

25    sure that we can find a way to get the important 


                                                               4106

 1    things done like Charlie Rangel did -- in a 

 2    bipartisan way, ensuring that people were taken 

 3    care of, that the true needs of people were taken 

 4    care of.  That even a giant like him could be 

 5    humble in any environment, in any location.  He 

 6    was never afraid to speak truth to power while he 

 7    fought tirelessly for working families, for civil 

 8    rights, for education, for healthcare.  

 9                 While he had leadership and was part 

10    of -- he was in the highest levels of the 

11    government, had major opportunities to talk to 

12    people from all over the world, you always knew 

13    that he was someone that could speak to you 

14    individually.

15                 As Senator Bailey said, you could 

16    always feel like you had an individual 

17    opportunity to talk to Charlie Rangel and he 

18    understood you.  

19                 I had the opportunity to sit down 

20    with David Dinkins and Charlie Rangel when I was 

21    thinking about running for City Council Speaker.  

22    They told me not to do it.  

23                 (Laughter.) 

24                 SENATOR COMRIE:   You didn't know 

25    that story.  I was sitting in a restaurant and I 


                                                               4107

 1    was all hyped up about myself.  And after sitting 

 2    down with them, I realized that I understood that 

 3    was not my path.  

 4                 But it brought me here, you know.  

 5    So I had that relationship.  They knew me because 

 6    I was -- as I said, I worked for my predecessor 

 7    Archie Spigner, and so they saw me and they saw 

 8    my evolution, but they knew I wasn't ready for 

 9    that.  And they pointed me in a different 

10    direction.  

11                 And they didn't throw me out and 

12    say, You can't do anything, they gave me a 

13    different path.  They gave me a better 

14    understanding on what my skill set was and what I 

15    needed to do to contribute to my opportunities in 

16    the City Council.  But it wasn't being Speaker of 

17    the City Council.  And they let me know it 

18    because they needed me in other places.  

19                 And they were able to figure out 

20    your strengths.  They were able to figure out 

21    what you could do.  

22                 And he consistently, even after 

23    then, stayed in my life, made sure that we all 

24    did better.  Made sure that whatever he did, he 

25    showed his joy, he showed his spirit, he showed 


                                                               4108

 1    what it was to be someone that could impress 

 2    people, someone that could make sure that people 

 3    had a purpose and make sure that people are proud 

 4    of public service.  

 5                 God rest Charlie Rangel.

 6                 Thank you, Mr. President.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

 8    you, Senator.

 9                 Senator Liu on the resolution.

10                 SENATOR LIU:   Much has been said by 

11    many already, and much more will be said by many 

12    more.  

13                 Mr. President, for the record, I 

14    just want to make clear that the Lion of Lenox, 

15    the giant of Harlem, was renowned and revered in 

16    the Asian-American community as well, never 

17    missing an invitation to take part in a 

18    commemoration of the Korean War or any other 

19    events.  And without his efforts, even being 

20    gravely wounded, the Korean-American community in 

21    New York and particularly in my area of Flushing, 

22    Queens, could never have begun, much less thrive 

23    in the way it does today.

24                 On a personal note, I want to thank 

25    Congressman Rangel for helping me get on the map 


                                                               4109

 1    politically in New York.  And also, I guess 

 2    especially for him, in our first sitdown at 

 3    Sylvia's, introducing me to smothered chicken.  

 4    It's unbelievable.  

 5                 Congressman Charles B. Rangel.  He 

 6    will be missed, but never forgotten.

 7                 Thank you, Senator Cleare, for the 

 8    resolution.  

 9                 And Mr. President, I vote yes.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

11    you, Senator.

12                 Senator Webb on the resolution.

13                 SENATOR WEBB:   Thank you, 

14    Mr. President.  

15                 I want to extend my appreciation to 

16    Senator Cleare, and of course to our 

17    Majority Leader, with regards to this resolution.  

18                 Although I never had the chance to 

19    directly connect with the Congressman, but most 

20    certainly through the national political work 

21    that I did prior to the Senate, and even well 

22    before that, his reputation far preceded him and 

23    most certainly will always be remembered.

24                 You know, we're continuing to see 

25    this trend of our trailblazing leaders that are 


                                                               4110

 1    transitioning, which feels like too soon.  

 2    Because we want more time with them, we want more 

 3    opportunity to soak in their knowledge.  

 4                 And so as one of my colleagues 

 5    already mentioned, it's imperative that we 

 6    continue their legacy, most certainly through 

 7    resolution, but also continue their legacy of 

 8    service.

 9                 And so as has already been stated, 

10    Harlem most certainly has lost a lion, but I 

11    would also add our state has lost a giant and our 

12    nation has lost a moral force whose voice 

13    thundered resoundingly for justice, equality, and 

14    opportunity for over half a century.

15                 Congressman Rangel was a trailblazer 

16    and a decorated war hero and a founding member of 

17    the Congressional Black Caucus.  But he also 

18    brought that same tenacity and courage to 

19    Congress, representing the 13th District with 

20    compassion, vision, grace and dignity for 

21    46 years.  

22                 He never stopped fighting for the 

23    people, as has been said, and especially those 

24    who are often rendered voiceless and those who 

25    are often marginalized.  He always stayed 


                                                               4111

 1    grounded even though rising in the ranks in 

 2    Congress.  He never forgot the community that he 

 3    came from.  And he understood, like we all do in 

 4    this chamber, that leadership is not just about 

 5    writing laws, it's about lifting voices, 

 6    especially those that are too often ignored.

 7                 He was also someone that was very 

 8    connected to many organizations.  As 

 9    Senator Parker mentioned, he was a Mason but he 

10    was also a member of the Divine Nine, as a 

11    brother of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc.  

12                 Even in his retirement he continued 

13    to mentor those coming after him.  And his legacy 

14    is not one of just legislation, but his legacy is 

15    most certainly continued through the love of his 

16    family, his constituents, and for the 

17    possibilities that justice can create.

18                 I want to extend my deepest 

19    condolences to his children, his grandchildren 

20    and extended family, and to the Harlem community 

21    that he so fiercely championed.

22                 Mr. President, Congressman Rangel 

23    leaves behind more than a record of service; he 

24    leaves behind a road map for how to lead with 

25    integrity, courage, and an unshakable belief in 


                                                               4112

 1    the promise of this nation.

 2                 As we all continue to mourn his 

 3    passing, may we all continue to honor his legacy.  

 4    I thank him for his service, and I vote aye on 

 5    this resolution.

 6                 Thank you, Mr. President.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

 8    you, Senator Webb.

 9                 The question is on the resolution.  

10    All those in favor please signify by saying aye.

11                 (Response of "Aye.")

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Opposed, 

13    nay.

14                 (No response.)

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

16    resolution is adopted.

17                 Senator Gianaris.

18                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Next up, 

19    Mr. President, is previously adopted 

20    Resolution 823, by Senator Sepúlveda.  

21                 Read that resolution's title and 

22    recognize Senator Sepúlveda, please.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

24    Secretary will read.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Resolution 823, by 


                                                               4113

 1    Senator Sepúlveda, memorializing Governor Kathy 

 2    Hochul to proclaim May 28, 2025, as 

 3    Taiwan Heritage Day in the State of New York.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 5    Sepúlveda on the resolution.

 6                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Thank you, 

 7    Mr. President, for allowing me to present this 

 8    resolution.  

 9                 It is a great honor for me to 

10    commemorate Taiwan Heritage Day, a celebration 

11    that invites us not only to look to the past with 

12    respect and gratitude, but also to project into 

13    the future the values, traditions and cultural 

14    expressions that have shaped the identity of the 

15    honorable members of the Taiwanese community.

16                 Taiwan, with its rich cultural 

17    diversity, millennia-old history, and tireless 

18    innovative spirit, offers an inspiring example of 

19    how the past can be honored without losing sight 

20    of the future.  From traditional craftsmanship to 

21    contemporary art, from ancestral celebrations to 

22    cutting-edge technology, Taiwan reminds us that 

23    heritage is a living force that unites us, gives 

24    us identity, and strengthens our shared humanity.  

25                 The active presence of the Taiwanese 


                                                               4114

 1    diaspora in the United States is a testament to a 

 2    constant desire for dialogue, exchange and mutual 

 3    enrichment.  It is without a doubt an opportunity 

 4    to build stronger bridges between our cultures 

 5    and to strengthen the shared values of democracy, 

 6    freedom, diversity and respect.

 7                 Taiwan is much more than an island.  

 8    It is a cultural beacon with a vibrant identity 

 9    and a history forged through diversity, 

10    resilience, and determination to build an 

11    inclusive and modern society.  Today we celebrate 

12    the heritage not only as a legacy of the past, 

13    but as a living testament to what a community can 

14    achieve when it unites around common principles.

15                 From my position as a New York State 

16    Senator, I reaffirm my commitment to recognizing 

17    and promoting the cultural heritage of all the 

18    communities that make our state and our country a 

19    mosaic of stories, voices and hopes.

20                 As we commemorate Taiwan Heritage 

21    Day, I am proud to recognize Ambassador Lee, who 

22    is the director general of the Taipei Economic 

23    and Cultural Office, and Mr. Chuy, Tony Chuy, 

24    president of the Chinese Consolidated Benevolent 

25    Association of New York.  


                                                               4115

 1                 Thank you, Mr. President.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

 3    you, Senator.

 4                 Senator Liu on the resolution.

 5                 SENATOR LIU:   Thank you, 

 6    Mr. President.  

 7                 I want to thank Senator Sepúlveda 

 8    for every year introducing this resolution on 

 9    behalf of the Taiwanese American community.  

10                 As some of you may know, Taiwan is 

11    my native land.  I was born there a number of 

12    years ago before I immigrated here at the age of 

13    five, and Taiwan has always been part of my life.  

14                 But I think Senator Sepúlveda 

15    already gave it the best descriptors possible.  I 

16    can only add that I think we all know about the 

17    rich history and culture of the people from 

18    Taiwan and the people in Taiwan.  It's got art, 

19    it's got media, it's got music.  But today we 

20    know Taiwan for the great technology it has, of 

21    course great food, and it is a modern beacon of 

22    democracy and I daresay the most or certainly at 

23    least one of the most progressive societies in 

24    this world.

25                 So I join Senator Sepúlveda and my 


                                                               4116

 1    colleagues here in welcoming Ambassador Tom Lee 

 2    from the Taiwan Economic and Cultural Office, and 

 3    Mr. Tom Su, the president of the Taiwan Center of 

 4    New York, and of course Mr. Tony Chuy, who is the 

 5    president of the Chinese Consolidated Benevolent 

 6    Association, which is the -- one of the oldest 

 7    and certainly the largest Chinese American 

 8    organization in the Greater New York area.

 9                 Mr. President, I proudly vote yes on 

10    this resolution.  Thank you.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

12    you, Senator.

13                 Senator Stavisky on the resolution.

14                 SENATOR STAVISKY:   Thank you, 

15    Mr. President.  

16                 Thank you, Senator Sepúlveda and 

17    Senator Liu.  

18                 And thank you for coming to Albany.  

19    This is sort of a tradition that goes back quite 

20    a number of years to our friends from TECO, the 

21    Taiwan Economic and Cultural Association, our 

22    friends from CCBA, from the Taiwan Center.  If 

23    there's anybody here from FCBA, great to see you 

24    all.  

25                 The Taiwanese community is such an 


                                                               4117

 1    important part of life in Queens County.  And we 

 2    are truly blessed by your presence.  When you 

 3    came here during I guess it was the late 1970s or 

 4    so, early 1980s, you added such vibrancy, I 

 5    think -- I can't think of another word -- to the 

 6    Queens community which continues to this day.

 7                 So the ambassador and the presidents 

 8    of the associations, and to the members, we 

 9    welcome you and we thank you for what you're 

10    doing to make Queens County a better place in 

11    which to live, to raise a family, to do business, 

12    and to enjoy everything that there is to 

13    celebrate.  

14                 So again, thank you very much for 

15    coming.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

17    you, Senator.

18                 Senator Chan on the resolution.

19                 SENATOR CHAN:   Thank you, 

20    Mr. President.  

21                 Thank you, Senator Sepúlveda, for 

22    bringing forth this resolution.  Thank you, 

23    Senator Liu, for all your kind words about 

24    Taiwan, Senator Stavisky.  

25                 Welcome, my guests, Mr. Ambassador 


                                                               4118

 1    Lee and Mr. Tony Chuy of CBCA, Mr. Tom Su.  

 2    Welcome to Albany.  I want to thank you for 

 3    taking the time in your busy schedule to come 

 4    visit on this Taiwan Heritage Day.  

 5                 I don't think I have to stand here 

 6    all day to talk about Taiwan and their 

 7    contributions to civilization.  Taiwan is home to 

 8    the largest semiconductor foundry on the planet, 

 9    and that is Taiwan Semiconductors.  I own stocks.

10                 (Laughter.)

11                 SENATOR CHAN:   But anyway, so the 

12    achievements of our Taiwanese community is 

13    especially visible, tangible.  You can feel it.  

14    You can see it right there in Flushing, New York.  

15    We're talking about commerce.  We're talking 

16    about food, culture.  It's enriching to our 

17    community, it's enriching to New York and our 

18    state as well as America itself.

19                 So I don't have to stand and talk 

20    about that all day.  So I just want to once again 

21    thank you for coming up here, and welcome.

22                 Mr. President, I proudly vote aye.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

24    you, Senator Chan.

25                 To our guests, I welcome you on 


                                                               4119

 1    behalf of the Senate.  We extend to you the 

 2    privileges and courtesies of this house.  

 3                 Please rise and be recognized.

 4                 (Standing ovation.)

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 6    resolution was adopted on May 6th.

 7                 Senator Gianaris.

 8                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

 9    let's move on to previously adopted 

10    Resolution 945, read that resolution's title, and 

11    recognize Senator Murray.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

13    Secretary will read.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Resolution 954, by 

15    Senator Murray, memorializing Governor Kathy 

16    Hochul to proclaim July 2025 as MECP2 Duplication 

17    Syndrome Awareness Month in the State of 

18    New York.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Before we 

20    recognize Senator Murray, I ask the house to 

21    please maintain decorum here as Senator Murray 

22    has the floor.  

23                 Senator Murray on the resolution.  

24                 SENATOR MURRAY:   Thank you, 

25    Mr. President.  


                                                               4120

 1                 So on May 13th we approved a 

 2    resolution proclaiming July as MECP2 Duplication 

 3    Syndrome Awareness Month in New York State.

 4                 MECP2 Duplication Syndrome is a rare 

 5    progressive genetic disorder estimated to be 

 6    found in less than one out of every 100,000 

 7    births.  It was first recognized in 2005.  The 

 8    symptoms include severe developmental problems, 

 9    impaired motor function, gastrointestinal issues, 

10    respiratory infections, and treatment-resistant 

11    seizures.  

12                 Tragically, the cumulative impact of 

13    these multisystemic health problems often lead to 

14    a shortened life span with only half of affected 

15    individuals surviving past the young age of 25.

16                 Although research studies have 

17    indicated some hope that symptoms of this 

18    disorder may be reversed, we are still many years 

19    away from effective treatments.

20                 I was made aware of this rare 

21    genetic conditional by a constituent of mine, 

22    Loretta Beine, whose son Dakota passed away in 

23    2022.  Dakota was a young man full of life and 

24    joy whose smile would light up a room.  He loved 

25    childhood pleasures like birthday parties, 


                                                               4121

 1    sharing meals with family and neighbors.  He 

 2    enjoyed hanging out in the pool on summer days.  

 3    He loved to talk to people about music, 

 4    motorcycle cops, and Batman.  

 5                 Dakota was a student at Eastern 

 6    Suffolk BOCES, where he was often called "the 

 7    Mayor," and that was because he would love to say 

 8    hello and greet everyone he ran into.

 9                 Dakota graduated high school at 

10    20 years of age, then went on to a culinary-focus 

11    day habilitation program, where Dakota had warm 

12    relationships with his peers and teachers.  

13    Dakota also developed a special friendship with 

14    Tom, the nurse for the building.  

15                 And here is why passing this 

16    resolution and raising awareness is so vitally 

17    important.  You see, Dakota experienced serious 

18    developmental delays.  And although he was 

19    eventually able to speak in full sentences and 

20    was able to move independently, but as he grew 

21    older, however, he regressed.  Despite years of 

22    medical evaluations and hospitalizations, no 

23    diagnosis emerged.

24                 For much of his life Dakota lived 

25    without a diagnosis, leaving his family without 


                                                               4122

 1    the understanding or support that could have made 

 2    a critical difference.

 3                 Dakota was finally diagnosed with 

 4    MECP2 Duplication Syndrome.  And although the 

 5    diagnosis brought the long-sought clarity, it 

 6    also confirmed the difficult reality that there 

 7    was no cure.

 8                 Over time, Dakota's condition 

 9    continued to worsen.  He began experiencing daily 

10    seizures and ultimately spent his later years in 

11    a transport chair and faced the many challenges 

12    that came with this devastating syndrome.

13                 In 2022, at just 31 years old, 

14    Dakota passed away at Stony Brook University 

15    Hospital due to pneumonia.  His life, though 

16    marked by struggle, was also marked by immense 

17    love, strength and resilience.  Dakota's story is 

18    a powerful example of the urgent need for 

19    research and to raise awareness and support for 

20    those living with MECP2 Duplication Syndrome and 

21    their families, as well as the professionals who 

22    are responsible for their healthcare.

23                 Mr. President, I'd like to thank all 

24    of my colleagues here for their support in 

25    passing this resolution.  And as I mentioned 


                                                               4123

 1    earlier, current research has indicated the 

 2    possibility of successful treatment options.  And 

 3    it's my sincere hope that our efforts will help 

 4    raise awareness and incentivize further research.

 5                 I'd also like to mention Dakota's 

 6    mother, Loretta Beine, is here with us in the 

 7    gallery today.  And I ask that you recognize her 

 8    and extend to her the courtesies of the house.  

 9                 Thank you, Mr. President.  

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

11    you, Senator Murray.  

12                 To our guests, I welcome you on 

13    behalf of the Senate.  We extend to you the 

14    privileges and courtesies of this house.  

15                 Please rise and be recognized.

16                 (Standing ovation.)

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

18    resolution was adopted on May 13th.

19                 Senator Gianaris.

20                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   We're going to 

21    go to Senator Parker next and take up previously 

22    adopted Resolution 308, read that resolution's 

23    title and recognize Senator Parker.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

25    Secretary will read.


                                                               4124

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Resolution 308, by 

 2    Senator Parker, honoring the Most Worshipful 

 3    Prince Hall Grand Lodge of New York on the 

 4    occasion of celebrating Prince Hall Day 2025.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 6    Parker on the resolution.

 7                 SENATOR PARKER:   Thank you, 

 8    Mr. President.

 9                 I rise to talk about one of the 

10    oldest African-American institutions in this 

11    nation, which is Prince Hall Masonry, and wanted 

12    to thank this body for giving us an opportunity, 

13    for the second year in a row, to have a Prince 

14    Hall Day at the Capitol and the resolution.

15                 This is important in part because 

16    this organization is a subset of the oldest 

17    fraternity in the world, which is Free and 

18    Accepted Masonry.  If you kind of trace back the 

19    unification of Grand Lodges, we're talking about 

20    going back to 1717.  And I could be corrected if 

21    I have my dates a little off.

22                 But we talk about the beginning of 

23    Prince Hall Masonry being around March 6, 1775, 

24    with the initiation of the Immortal 15, which 

25    were the first 15 African-Americans initiated 


                                                               4125

 1    into Masonry under an Irish Militia Lodge, that 

 2    then grew into what we understand now to be 

 3    Prince Hall Masonry.

 4                 And why Prince Hall Masonry?  

 5    Because Prince Hall was the first Grand Master, a 

 6    freed African-American who there's not a lot of 

 7    information about his early days.  

 8                 But I wanted to raise the history of 

 9    Prince Hall because Masonry to a large degree was 

10    kind of a side hustle.  Right?  I mean, he was an 

11    abolitionist.  Fundamentally what he was, was an 

12    abolitionist.  He actually came to Masonry 

13    because he had freed himself and was looking for 

14    the opportunity to free other African-Americans 

15    in Boston in the late 1700s.  

16                 He built schools.  He created 

17    opportunities for mutual assistance.  Right?  

18    Much of what's been lost in Masonry is the fact 

19    that early on they were mutual aid societies.  

20    Right?  

21                 As Masons we oftentimes talk about, 

22    you know, burying our dead, which now kind of 

23    sounds weird because we don't think about that as 

24    being a thing that you have to worry about.  But 

25    in the 1700s it was.  Right?  Taking care of 


                                                               4126

 1    widows and orphans, providing charity in the 

 2    community.  These are all part of the things that 

 3    Prince Hall did that then, once he became a 

 4    Mason, then married beautifully together.

 5                 (Sneeze from the audience.) Bless 

 6    you.  We say Masonry -- what we call that in the 

 7    African-American tradition is sneezing on the 

 8    truth -- 

 9                 (Laughter.)

10                 SENATOR PARKER:   -- just so you 

11    know.

12                 But we say that Masonry is a 

13    beautiful system of morality veiled in allegory 

14    and illustrated by symbols.  But at its base it 

15    is both a fraternity and a charity.  It is a 

16    group of men who have bonded together to provide 

17    mutual aid, to support one another, and to help 

18    our families, our widows and our orphans.

19                 Our motto in Prince Hall Masonry is 

20    "Making Good Men Better."  It is a motto that has 

21    brought together a number of men of different 

22    religious backgrounds, ethnic backgrounds, racial 

23    backgrounds.  It's a fraternity that you can find 

24    literally throughout the world.  I've actually 

25    visited the Grand Lodge in India, which was quite 


                                                               4127

 1    an experience.

 2                 And so today during Prince Hall Day, 

 3    members of the Most Worshipful Prince Hall 

 4    Grand Lodge of the State of New York and members 

 5    of the order of the Eastern Star, Eureka Grand 

 6    Chapter, here in the State of New York came to 

 7    visit with legislators, interact with them about 

 8    numbers of issues that are going on both 

 9    legislatively and things in the community, have 

10    an opportunity to talk to them about their 

11    concerns, and share with them the work that they 

12    have been doing.

13                 One of the interesting things that 

14    happens in the context of these meetings is that 

15    that legislators quickly find out that the people 

16    that they're meeting now as Masons and as members 

17    of the Order of the Eastern Star, they already 

18    knew, but in other capacities.  

19                 And when we look throughout our 

20    history and we look even at our contemporary 

21    society, you will see a number of people that you 

22    already know that are Prince Hall Masons.  People 

23    like Charles B. Rangel that we memorialized 

24    today.  People like David Dinkins.  Men like Bill 

25    Thompson, who's a former City Comptroller and 


                                                               4128

 1    chair of the City University of New York.  Men 

 2    like Al Sharpton.  

 3                 And when we look through history, 

 4    we'll find men like Ralph Abernathy, right, who 

 5    ran the NAACP and was very active in the whole 

 6    movement that put Rosa Parks on the bus.

 7                 People like A. Philip Randolph, who 

 8    headed the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters.  

 9    In fact, legend tells us that in fact part of the 

10    March on Washington, which A. Philip Randolph 

11    organized, was actually organized at our 

12    Grand Lodge here in New York at 454 West 155th 

13    Street.

14                 People like Arturo Schomburg, who 

15    was a very active Prince Hall Mason.  Right?  

16                 And so today I wanted to make sure 

17    that we recognize these leaders in our 

18    communities and the work that they have done not 

19    just in their everyday lives but particularly the 

20    work that they do within their lodges and 

21    chapters.  Me myself am a member and actually sit 

22    as the Master of Sons of Kings Lodge No. 123.  

23    I'm a Past Patron of Sunshine Chapter No. 34, a 

24    member of Mount Moriah Chapter No. 3 of the 

25    Holy Royal Arch, a member of Long Island 


                                                               4129

 1    Consistory No. 61, in the Scottish Rite, as well 

 2    as a member of the Mystic Tie Chapter No. 8 of 

 3    the Royal and Select Masters.  

 4                 And my Masonic journey has been one 

 5    in which I have not just had an opportunity to 

 6    expand my service and charity in the community 

 7    but, more importantly, build a lifelong 

 8    brotherhood and sisterhood with the members of 

 9    the society.  

10                 And so quickly I'd like to ask the 

11    folks to rise on the floor so I can quickly 

12    introduce them.  

13                 The first, we have our Most 

14    Worshipful Grand Master, Reverend Dr. Darren M. 

15    Morton, Ed.D.  We have the Deputy Grand Master  

16    Jean E. Apollon.  We have a member of the 

17    Trustees, Troy Jackson.  We have Grand Worthy 

18    Patron Grant Valentine, as well as the rose of 

19    our great chapter, Marsha Mack, our Grand Worthy 

20    Matron.  But certainly not to be forgotten is our 

21    Grand Junior Warden Sandino Sanchez.  

22                 And I wanted to thank them for being 

23    here, thank them for their leadership, and thank 

24    them for every day answering the call that our 

25    community puts out and never wavering and never 


                                                               4130

 1    getting tired in doing good.

 2                 Before I take my seat, 

 3    Mr. President, I certainly wanted to thank my 

 4    staff, particularly Justin Chaires, who is the 

 5    Worshipful Master of Tuscan Lodge No. 85 right 

 6    here in Albany, and Tamara Tucker, my director of 

 7    operations, who is a sister at Mount Moriah 

 8    Chapter here in Albany, as well as 

 9    Veronica Norman, who's a sister at Adah Chapter 

10    in Schenectady.

11                 So it is -- teamwork makes the dream 

12    work.  And being part of these organizations has 

13    certainly built a team around a set of people 

14    with like values, but most importantly a heart of 

15    service.

16                 Thank you, Mr. President.  And thank 

17    you, Prince Hall Masons and members of the Order 

18    of the Eastern Star.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

20    you, Senator Parker.

21                 Senator Bailey on the resolution.

22                 SENATOR BAILEY:   Thank you, 

23    Mr. President.

24                 Thank you, Senator Parker, for 

25    introducing this resolution.


                                                               4131

 1                 I just wanted to make sure that I 

 2    get the opportunity to recognize the Prince Hall 

 3    Masons for all the great work that they do in the 

 4    community.

 5                 It's the time that I get to pay 

 6    homage to my grandfather, James Bailey.  He was a 

 7    Prince Hall Mason from Johnson County, 

 8    North Carolina, specifically Selma.  And I used 

 9    to always ask him, like, What is the G club, what 

10    is this G thing that you go to?  And he said it's 

11    the Prince Hall Masons.  It's an order of 

12    brotherhood.  

13                 And he told me what he could tell 

14    me, not -- no divulging the state secrets or 

15    anything like that.  But he told me that it was 

16    something that he took pride in because it was an 

17    organization that meant something to him and the 

18    community.  

19                 My grandmother Lena was also -- 

20    Lena Bailey, Lena Bell Bailey, was a member of 

21    the Order of the Eastern Star as well.  

22                 And I'm often asked, if your 

23    grandparents were members, why haven't you 

24    joined?  And the question and the thought process 

25    is that my grandparents are legends.  Sometimes 


                                                               4132

 1    you've just got to let it live where the legends 

 2    are.  

 3                 And I appreciate all that they've 

 4    done and all that you do.  Special recognition 

 5    goes to the Most Worshipful Grand Master Reverend 

 6    Dr. Darren M. Morton, a man who has more degrees 

 7    than the deodorant aisle in Target.  He also -- 

 8    he's the pastor of Macedonia Baptist Church in 

 9    the City of Mount Vernon.  He's also the city 

10    comptroller of the City of Mount Vernon.  And 

11    he's actually spearheading a financial 

12    renaissance in the city because there were some 

13    tough times before he got there.  

14                 But under his leadership we're on 

15    the way back.  And I imagine that under his 

16    leadership here with the Prince Hall Masons, you 

17    guys are in great hands.  

18                 So, Mr. President, I proudly vote 

19    aye on the resolution and again, thank you for 

20    coming up to our State Capitol, and thank you for 

21    all the work that you do.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

23    you, Senator.

24                 Senator Cleare on the resolution.

25                 SENATOR CLEARE:   Thank you, 


                                                               4133

 1    Mr. President.

 2                 It is with great pleasure and pride 

 3    that I stand in support of this resolution.  

 4                 I want to thank Senator Kevin Parker 

 5    for every year doing this.  It's so important.  

 6    I'm so happy that he does the resolution, but I 

 7    do get a little jealous because Prince Hall is in 

 8    my district.  But we can share.  Because they 

 9    belong to all of us.  

10                 I'm the proud daughter of a Prince 

11    Hall Mason, I'll shout him out today, Levi 

12    Cleare.  He's no longer with us.  But -- and I, 

13    like Senator Bailey, they've asked me how come 

14    you've never.  But I think that he just -- I'm 

15    going to leave that where it is, because he was 

16    just that guy to me and to so many.  

17                 But I want to thank Prince Hall and 

18    I want to thank the Eastern Stars for the work 

19    that they do every day in all of our communities 

20    and for being one of the first organizations that 

21    I ever knew of that did charity in our own 

22    community.  People that looked like us, people 

23    that lived with us who every day, without 

24    recognition, without pay, without fanfare, just 

25    did what they knew was right.  


                                                               4134

 1                 And I just appreciate that example, 

 2    and I know that it has influenced my life and 

 3    what I've done in this world.  So I thank you so 

 4    much.

 5                 I want to recognize -- well, there's 

 6    a few of my constituents here today.  But I ran 

 7    into one today at the hotel, Larry Blackman.  I 

 8    don't know if he's still here.  

 9                 But I know so many of you came up 

10    today.  And I'm very, very proud to see this 

11    organization recognized here in our State 

12    Capitol.  

13                 Thank you so much.  Thank you again, 

14    Senator, for bringing them here.

15                 Thank you.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

17    Scarcella-Spanton on the resolution.

18                 SENATOR SCARCELLA-SPANTON:   Thank 

19    you, Mr. President.

20                 And thank you, Senator Parker, for 

21    bringing this resolution to the floor.  It's been 

22    a tremendous honor to get to know everyone today.  

23    But I have to give a special shout out to the 

24    Silver Lake Lodge.  I have Troy Jackson here, 

25    from Staten Island, who's here with us.  


                                                               4135

 1                 And I want to talk a little bit 

 2    about Silver Lake Lodge.  Silver Lake Lodge holds 

 3    a distinguished place in Staten Island Masonic 

 4    history.  It's celebrated as the first and only 

 5    lodge on Staten Island and has an over 100-year 

 6    history.  

 7                 Throughout its century-long 

 8    existence, Silver Lake Lodge has been deeply 

 9    involved in community service, often in 

10    collaboration with the Silver Queens.  I've had 

11    the honor to come visit the lodge and speak at 

12    it.  I think it's actually one of the very first 

13    things I did when I got elected to the Senate.  

14                 So it's amazing to see you all here 

15    today.  I actually got a text from Dr. Al Curtis 

16    that his son, Dr. Al Curtis, Jr., was recently 

17    elevated to Illustrious Grand Inspector General.  

18    So congratulations to him.  

19                 And I know within your midst you 

20    have politicians, doctors, business owners, 

21    lawyers, you name it.  And it's such a tremendous 

22    testament to your history.  And I thank you for 

23    being here.  

24                 And I thank you, Senator Parker, for 

25    bringing this resolution to the floor.  


                                                               4136

 1                 I proudly vote aye.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 3    Oberacker on the resolution.

 4                 SENATOR OBERACKER:   Thank you, 

 5    Mr. President.

 6                 And, Most Worshipful, welcome to the 

 7    Senate chamber, and the distinguished Most Worthy 

 8    Matron and Patron, welcome to Albany.

 9                 You know, I'm celebrating 40 years 

10    of being a Mason.  I'm a Past Master and a past 

11    state office Grand Steward for the State of 

12    New York.  So Masonry has been a big part of my 

13    life growing up.  

14                 And who would have thought that when 

15    I came to the Senate that I would have something 

16    so in common with one of my colleagues, 

17    Senator Parker.  We both are good orators.  One 

18    speaks maybe a little longer than the other; 

19    we'll let you determine who that might be.  

20                 (Laughter.)

21                 SENATOR OBERACKER:   We -- and we're 

22    brothers, we're Masonic brothers.  And that is 

23    something that when it comes to all the debates 

24    and all the issues that we bring forward, that 

25    will always, always ring true and give us a 


                                                               4137

 1    foundation to move on respectfully.

 2                 So, Most Worshipful, may we always 

 3    meet on the level.  Welcome.  

 4                 And Senator Parker, thank you for 

 5    bringing this resolution to the floor.

 6                 I proudly vote aye.  Thank you.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 8    Comrie on the resolution.

 9                 SENATOR COMRIE:   Thank you, 

10    Mr. President.

11                 I want to thank the leader and 

12    Senator Parker for starting this wonderful 

13    tradition of having the Masons come here and have 

14    an opportunity to network and talk to members in 

15    both houses today, have an opportunity to go to 

16    the Assembly and to move around and to just show 

17    people their majesty and their dignity.

18                 I want to shout out Lebanon Lodge in 

19    Queens, where I have the honor of being made a 

20    Mason through Lebanon Lodge and have the 

21    opportunity to work with them.  

22                 I just want to talk about the fact 

23    that the Masonic focus, as has been said, is 

24    focused on charity or focused on giving back.  

25    I've worked with Lebanon Lodge on many projects 


                                                               4138

 1    from giving back to the community, where they 

 2    take almost every weekend where they're doing 

 3    something to help the community one way or 

 4    another, through charity drives to give-backs to 

 5    working to help new mothers or to new parents, to 

 6    having opportunities to give children an 

 7    opportunity to see people in a different light, 

 8    to see adults acting in a way that would make a 

 9    child proud.  

10                 The Masonic community has never 

11    failed to be part of our community's life.  

12                 So I just wanted to rise and thank 

13    all of you for being here today.  I continue to 

14    look forward to seeing you in different aspects 

15    of our community, as you are true leaders of our 

16    community.  

17                 So thank you, Mr. President, for 

18    allowing me to salute the Masonic community.

19                 Thank you.  

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

21    you, Senator.

22                 Senator Fernandez on the resolution.

23                 SENATOR FERNANDEZ:   Thank you, 

24    Mr. President.  

25                 I too want to thank Senator Parker 


                                                               4139

 1    for bringing this resolution, and take this 

 2    moment to recognize my chapter because I am a 

 3    sister of the Order of the Eastern Star, 

 4    Lorelei Chapter 581.  

 5                 And it has been an honor to be a 

 6    part of this organization, this movement, this 

 7    legacy for the work that has been done, the 

 8    people, the women that I've met, it truly has 

 9    been a blessing to be in their graces, and 

10    building on a legacy of community and protecting 

11    our neighborhoods and our community.

12                 And on to today, where we can -- I 

13    feel like sharing our secret because for the 

14    longest time it's like you don't say that you 

15    are, but you do the work like you are.  And it's 

16    always a lovely surprise when I am meeting people 

17    and when they see maybe my pin or some colors 

18    that I'm wearing or something to know that I am a 

19    sister, when I get the secret handshake, it's 

20    just -- it's always fun.  

21                 But I truly thank everyone for 

22    coming up here, and each of your chapters around 

23    the state, thank you for the work that you're 

24    doing in uplifting our communities and providing 

25    the need that sometimes is not there, and for 


                                                               4140

 1    leaving the legacy strong as it has always been.  

 2                 So thank you.  I proudly vote aye.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

 4    you, Senator Fernandez.

 5                 To our guests, I welcome you on 

 6    behalf of the Senate.  We extend to you the 

 7    privileges and courtesies of this house.  

 8                 Please rise and be recognized.

 9                 (Standing ovation.)

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

11    resolution was adopted on February 4th.

12                 Senator Gianaris.

13                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Let's take up 

14    previously adopted Resolution 450.  Please read 

15    its title and recognize Senator Mayer.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

17    Secretary will read.

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Resolution 450, by 

19    Senator Mayer, memorializing Governor Kathy 

20    Hochul to proclaim June 21, 2025, as Yoga Day in 

21    the State of New York.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Before 

23    Senator Mayer begins, I just want to remind the 

24    house to please maintain decorum as Senator Mayer 

25    has the floor.


                                                               4141

 1                 Senator Mayer on the resolution.

 2                 SENATOR MAYER:   Thank you, 

 3    Mr. President.  

 4                 And I rise to speak on behalf of 

 5    this resolution declaring June 21st as Yoga Day 

 6    in the State of New York.  

 7                 And I know my guests who are 

 8    supporting this have exercised the greatest 

 9    skills of yoga by their patience and tempered 

10    response watching the Senate today.  

11                 And it truly is a tribute to yoga 

12    and the ability to have a peaceful method of 

13    dealing with conflict in the world that has made 

14    yoga such a powerful voice for peace and personal 

15    harmony.

16                 The world yoga community is much 

17    larger than we ever anticipated.  When yoga was 

18    introduced into the United States, it was sort of 

19    a new phenomenon.  Now it has become established 

20    in every community in the United States and 

21    certainly here in New York.  And if you were 

22    present in the Well earlier today, you could have 

23    engaged in some of the yoga postures, let by 

24    Guruji, our remarkable leader, who is a 

25    world-renowned yogi and interfaith minister.  And 


                                                               4142

 1    I've had the pleasure of taking his class and 

 2    learning from him.  I do need to practice, but we 

 3    all could use the practice.

 4                 The community that is here on behalf 

 5    of World Yoga Day and New York's Yoga Day 

 6    represents really a tremendous credit to their 

 7    perseverance in ensuring that New York is an 

 8    inclusive community of different traditions that 

 9    can be shared by all faiths.  

10                 And that is one of the secrets of 

11    yoga.  It is not a religion.  It is a practice.  

12    We all could learn from it.  We certainly could 

13    learn from it in this chamber.  The qualities of 

14    striving for world peace that drive yoga are 

15    something that we all need to find a path to do 

16    better.  

17                 And I'm so pleased to have my guests 

18    here today, including Guruji, as I mentioned, who 

19    has been a leader in the U.N. in the efforts to 

20    declare World Yoga Day.  

21                 And to all of our guests, I hope 

22    that you will give them the cordialities of the 

23    house and express our appreciation.  As you know, 

24    Mr. President, many of them are from the State of 

25    Kerala in India, which is a very important part 


                                                               4143

 1    of the Indian-American community in New York.  

 2    But it goes way beyond those that come from 

 3    Kerala to become an absolute part of the fabric 

 4    of all of our communities.  

 5                 I proudly vote aye, and I hope you 

 6    will give our guests the privileges and 

 7    cordialities of the house.

 8                 Thank you.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

10    you, Senator Mayer.

11                 Senator Scarcella-Spanton on the 

12    resolution.

13                 SENATOR SCARCELLA-SPANTON:   Thank 

14    you, Mr. President.

15                 And thank you, Senator Mayer, for 

16    bringing this resolution to the floor.

17                 I just have to recognize that we do 

18    have some constituents in the house here today.  

19    And just looking at you, I feel calmer.  So thank 

20    you for being here.  

21                 I do think that this is an important 

22    practice that every person in this room could 

23    probably benefit from.  So thank you for being 

24    here.  Happy Yoga Day.  And thank you again, 

25    Senator Mayer.


                                                               4144

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

 2    you, Senator.

 3                 To our guests, I welcome you on 

 4    behalf of the Senate.  We extend to you the 

 5    privileges and courtesies of this house.  

 6                 Please rise and be recognized.

 7                 (Standing ovation.)

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 9    resolution was adopted on March 11th.

10                 Senator Gianaris.

11                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Please read the 

12    title of previously adopted Resolution 432 and 

13    recognize Senator Mayer.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

15    Secretary will read.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Resolution 432, by 

17    Senator Mayer, memorializing Governor Kathy 

18    Hochul to proclaim May 15-June 15, 2025, as 

19    Tourette Syndrome Awareness Month in the State of 

20    New York.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

22    Mayer.

23                 SENATOR MAYER:   Thank you, 

24    Mr. President.

25                 And I'm proud to again reintroduce 


                                                               4145

 1    this resolution declaring May 15th to June 15th 

 2    as Tourette Syndrome Awareness Month in New York 

 3    State.  

 4                 I think we all were aware of 

 5    Tourette Syndrome over the years, but it wasn't 

 6    till a constituent of mine, Maura Carlin, in 

 7    2019, shortly after I was elected, wrote me about 

 8    her son Jack who was diagnosed at about age seven 

 9    with Tourette's and the challenges that he faced 

10    as a young man in school subject to the 

11    stereotypes and the bullying that go with those 

12    that suffer from Tourette Syndrome.  

13                 And through the amazing work of the 

14    Tourette Association of America, he became a 

15    Youth Ambassador for their program, giving 

16    himself the confidence and pride to be able to 

17    talk about Tourette's, and also encouraging 

18    awareness and dispelling the stereotyping and 

19    some of the very negative images, frankly, that 

20    have really harmed the Tourette's community.  

21                 I want to read a paragraph in an 

22    article she wrote which said:  "A big shift 

23    occurred when my son began advocating.  It gave 

24    him power and agency.  The TAA and our local 

25    chapter have a Youth Ambassador program where 


                                                               4146

 1    youth with Tourette Syndrome go into schools and 

 2    communicate to increase awareness of TS.  

 3                 "One of his earliest presentations 

 4    as a young man was to our town board, who were 

 5    compassionate and shared stories of their loved 

 6    ones with TS.  Other times he joined other Youth 

 7    Ambassadors at elementary and middle schools to 

 8    teach about TS and hopefully inspire tolerance."

 9                 Each year we've been able to have 

10    the Mario Cuomo Bridge lit up for Tourette 

11    Syndrome Month in the State of New York.  I am 

12    confident we'll have it done again this year.  

13                 But I just want to thank my 

14    constituents and all of those throughout the 

15    State of New York whose either children or loved 

16    ones have Tourette Syndrome.  They have the 

17    courage to deal with it.  We need to find a cure.  

18    But in the interim, let us recognize them, give 

19    voice to their challenges, and work ourselves on 

20    getting rid of our prejudices and stereotypes 

21    that have hurt the treatment of 

22    Tourette Syndrome.  

23                 And I'm proud to vote aye.

24                 Thank you, Mr. President.  

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 


                                                               4147

 1    you, Senator Mayer.

 2                 Senator Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick on the 

 3    resolution.

 4                 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:  

 5    Thank you, Mr. President.  

 6                 And I want to thank my colleague 

 7    Senator Mayer for her advocacy on this issue and 

 8    bringing this resolution to the floor.

 9                 I proudly support the resolution 

10    that says that May 15th to June 15th of 2025 is 

11    Tourette Syndrome Awareness Month in New York 

12    State.

13                 I also have a constituent who raised 

14    this issue for me and has made an incredible 

15    impact on me:  Joe Petraro, of East Rockaway, who 

16    is currently age 12, has already graduated 

17    high school, authored a book, enrolled in 

18    college, advocated in Congress, and launched a 

19    kindness campaign that's making a difference in 

20    our community.

21                 Joe said that he was initially put 

22    into a special ed class until a teacher realized 

23    he was a genius.  His IQ is 168.  So he's a 

24    remarkable young man who has turned his 

25    disability -- what we might think of as a 


                                                               4148

 1    disability -- into advocacy on behalf of this 

 2    very important issue.

 3                 He has started a "Be Kind" campaign 

 4    to raise awareness about Tourette's, fight the 

 5    stigma, and promote kindness and mental health 

 6    support, especially for kids and teens who often 

 7    feel like no one understands what they're going 

 8    through.

 9                 He's even raised money to allow kids 

10    in Sloan Kettering in the city to have special 

11    video games.  

12                 So he's really an incredible 

13    individual, and I'm so proud to know him.  He 

14    inspires us to lead with kindness.  And I want to 

15    thank him and his family -- his mom Anne has been 

16    an incredible advocate for him.  

17                 So I proudly vote aye and, again, 

18    thank you, Senator Mayer, for bringing this 

19    resolution to the floor.

20                 Thank you, Mr. President.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

22    you, Senator.

23                 The resolution was adopted on 

24    March 4th.

25                 Senator Gianaris.


                                                               4149

 1                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Next up is 

 2    Resolution 1098, by Senator Stavisky.  Please 

 3    read its title and recognize Senator Bailey first 

 4    on that resolution.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 6    Secretary will read.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Resolution 1098, by 

 8    Senator Stavisky, welcoming the students, 

 9    teachers and administrators of the Bronx High 

10    School of Science to the legislative chambers in 

11    Albany, New York, on May 28, 2025, and 

12    recognizing the school's historic contributions 

13    to education, science, and civic leadership.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

15    Bailey on the resolution.

16                 SENATOR BAILEY:   Thank you, 

17    Mr. President.  

18                 Thank you, Senator Stavisky, for 

19    introducing this resolution and allowing me the 

20    opportunity to speak first on it.

21                 Bronx Science gave me a lot.  Not 

22    just a great high school education, what I 

23    believe to be the best high school in the world, 

24    but that's just me -- but it gave me a sense of 

25    belief in myself, that I could achieve at high 


                                                               4150

 1    levels.  

 2                 It's considered to be a specialized 

 3    high school, a very rigorous academic 

 4    environment, and I was able to survive that 

 5    environment and continue to go through.

 6                 And I'm grateful to that school for 

 7    teaching me many things.  Not to judge a book by 

 8    its cover would be the largest one.

 9                 You've heard me speak often -- 

10    probably too much -- about basketball, but I was 

11    on the basketball team at Bronx Science.  And 

12    there was an article in the New York Times called 

13    "Basketball Nerds Get the Last Laugh."  I have 

14    this article framed in my office, and if anybody 

15    wants to see it, because it tells the story of 

16    our team, that when we went to schools throughout 

17    the Bronx and throughout the city, people saw the 

18    name on the front of our jerseys and immediately 

19    underestimated us.  And two halfs later they'd be 

20    down by 40 points wondering what happened.  The 

21    teachers taught me not to underestimate or judge 

22    a book by its cover.  

23                 They also gave me a hell of an 

24    education, with really incredible alumni like 

25    Michael Kay, the voice of a non-Mets baseball 


                                                               4151

 1    team; the famous Neil deGrasse Tyson; the civil 

 2    rights legend Kwame Turé, Stokely Carmichael.  If 

 3    you liked eighties hip-hop, Christopher "Kid" 

 4    Reid, from Kid 'n Play, of the legendary House 

 5    Party, was a Bronx Science alum.  If you watched 

 6    The Fresh Prince, the second mom -- not the 

 7    first -- Daphne Maxwell Reid, is a Bronx Science 

 8    alum.  If you watched the Houston Astros -- 

 9    again, sorry, Yankee fans -- the voice of the 

10    Houston Astros, Robert Ford III, is also a 

11    Bronx Science alum.

12                 We have incredible alums, but we 

13    also have two other really incredible alums in 

14    this chamber:  The first woman elected to the 

15    New York State Senate in Queens County, in Toby 

16    Ann Stavisky; and the first Asian-American 

17    elected citywide in the City of New York, 

18    John Liu.  

19                 It is an honor to be able to serve 

20    with such legends and that we come from the same 

21    high school lineage.  I stand on their shoulders.  

22                 And the kids were here today, they 

23    had to leave a little while ago -- it was a very 

24    busy day, Mr. President.  But I'm always proud to 

25    be a Wolverine, and I vote aye.


                                                               4152

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

 2    you, Senator Bailey.  

 3                 Senator Liu on the resolution.

 4                 SENATOR LIU:   Mr. President, 

 5    Senator Bailey already said everything I wanted 

 6    to say, so I agree with everything he said.  

 7                 Bronx Science was some of the best 

 8    years of my life.  And this year I get to relive 

 9    it by attending my 20th reunion -- 30th reunion.  

10    Okay, 40th reunion!  

11                 (Laughter.)

12                 SENATOR LIU:   Jeez.  

13                 (Laughter.)

14                 SENATOR LIU:   We're going to be 

15    recounting some great times.  And my class has 

16    always been very tight, and I'm looking forward 

17    to it.  And I thank Senator Stavisky for putting 

18    this resolution together.  

19                 Senator Bailey and I, and sometimes 

20    Senator Stavisky, we often attend events at our 

21    alma mater and proudly do so, in recognition of 

22    the fact that the school and we as alums still 

23    have so much to offer to many more generations of 

24    future leaders, scientists, mathematicians, and 

25    basketball players.


                                                               4153

 1                 Thank you, Mr. President.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

 3    you, Senator Liu.  Congratulations on your 

 4    reunion.

 5                 Senator Chan on the resolution.

 6                 SENATOR CHAN:   Thank you, 

 7    Mr. President.  As the former PTA president of 

 8    the number-one feeder school to New York City's 

 9    eight specialized high schools, I can't not speak 

10    about Bronx Science and welcome them to the 

11    Senate floor.  

12                 I think Senator Bailey and Senator 

13    Liu forgot to mention that Bronx Science is 

14    solely responsible for producing seven Nobel 

15    Prize winners.  And that is a record unsurpassed 

16    by any high school in America.  

17                 In fact, the specialized eight high 

18    schools in New York City produced an 

19    unprecedented total of 15 Nobel Prize winners, 

20    and that's the reason why my daughter, through 

21    her life, strived to be in one of those 

22    specialized high schools -- not Bronx Science, 

23    I'm sorry to say.  

24                 But welcome to our folks from Bronx 

25    Science.  And we must do what we can to preserve 


                                                               4154

 1    these fantastic schools that absolutely produce 

 2    the best scientists and leaders of our society, 

 3    as well as business people and such.

 4                 Thank you.  I proudly vote aye.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

 6    you, Senator Chan.

 7                 Senator Jackson on the resolution.

 8                 SENATOR JACKSON:   Thank you.  

 9                 I rise today in order to say Bronx 

10    High School of Science is in my family.  My 

11    daughter who's now 49, she graduated from medical 

12    school and she was an emergency room pediatrician 

13    in Washington, D.C. for 12 years, and now she's 

14    working in an urgent care.  

15                 But when she got her test scores, 

16    she said that she wanted to go to Bronx High 

17    School of Science, not to Stuyvesant, even though 

18    she scored high enough to get into Stuyvesant.  

19    So I'm proud of her.  

20                 She ran track at Bronx High School 

21    of Science.  Even though it's in the Bronx, we 

22    lived in Manhattan at that time.  But the most 

23    important thing, that's where she wanted to go.  

24                 And I'm happy to hear my colleagues 

25    talk about Bronx High School of Science.  And 


                                                               4155

 1    hopefully her name, Saadiyah Jackson, will be in 

 2    the record here in the New York State Senate.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

 4    you, Senator Jackson.

 5                 Senator Stavisky to close on the 

 6    resolution.

 7                 SENATOR STAVISKY:   Thank you, 

 8    Mr. President.

 9                 And to Senator Jackson, I couldn't 

10    go to Stuyvesant when I graduated from elementary 

11    school because the -- Science was accepting 

12    girls.  Very few schools did.  Which is 

13    interesting, I think.  

14                 I thank my colleagues, particularly 

15    Senator Bailey and Senator Liu.  It's amazing to 

16    me that we have three graduates in the State 

17    Senate.  And more in the Assembly, additional 

18    graduates.  

19                 But as I said, Science was founded a 

20    little over 85, 86 years ago, and almost 

21    immediately they started accepting girls.  

22    Stuyvesant did not.  Brooklyn Tech did not.  And 

23    in fact, I have taught at Brooklyn Tech, which is 

24    another good specialized high school, but they 

25    didn't accept girls at the time.


                                                               4156

 1                 There are -- I thought the number 

 2    was nine, but can you imagine seven or nine, 

 3    whatever the correct number is, Nobel Prize 

 4    winners?  That's not something to, as 

 5    Senator Parker said, sneeze at.  

 6                 (Laughter.)

 7                 SENATOR STAVISKY:   Seriously.  

 8                 We have an amazing record over these 

 9    years.  Not only am I a graduate, my son 

10    graduated a year after Senator Liu from Science.  

11    And it provides an opportunity for children, for 

12    young people to succeed if they so choose.  

13                 I am a firm believer in the 

14    specialized high schools.  We've got to improve 

15    the diversity, without question.  But if you take 

16    a look at us, we are diverse.  We originally came 

17    from three separate boroughs.  We represent, here 

18    today, different kinds of constituencies.  And 

19    yet we have this common theme of opportunity.  

20                 I'm proud to say that my class, we 

21    get together one or twice a year for dinner and 

22    we talk about our teachers, as everybody else 

23    does.

24                 So again, I thank my colleagues for 

25    supporting this resolution.  And hopefully they 


                                                               4157

 1    will continue to serve the people of our city for 

 2    many years to come.

 3                 Thank you.  

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

 5    you, Senator Stavisky.

 6                 The question is on the resolution.  

 7    All those in favor please signify by saying aye.

 8                 (Response of "Aye.")

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Opposed, 

10    nay.

11                 (No response.)

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

13    resolution is adopted.

14                 Senator Gianaris.

15                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you, 

16    Mr. President.

17                 I must say I'm feeling a little 

18    insecure about Long Island City High School after 

19    that -- 

20                 (Laughter.)

21                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   -- after that 

22    exposition.  No Nobel Prize winners from my 

23    school.

24                 Okay, Mr. President, I move to adopt 

25    the remainder of the Resolution Calendar.


                                                               4158

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   All those 

 2    in favor of adopting the remainder of the 

 3    Resolution Calendar, with the exception of 

 4    Resolutions 1098 and 1099, please signify by 

 5    saying aye.

 6                 (Response of "Aye.")

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Opposed, 

 8    nay.

 9                 (No response.)

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

11    Resolution Calendar has been adopted.

12                 Senator Gianaris.

13                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   The sponsors of 

14    the various resolutions we took up today would 

15    like to open them for cosponsorship.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

17    resolutions are open for cosponsorship.  Should 

18    you choose not to be a cosponsor on the 

19    resolutions, please notify the desk.

20                 Senator Gianaris.

21                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   There's a report 

22    of the Finance Committee at the desk.  Please 

23    take that up.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

25    Secretary will read.


                                                               4159

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Krueger, 

 2    from the Committee on Finance, reports the 

 3    following nomination.  

 4                 As commissioner of the Department of 

 5    Environmental Conservation:  Amanda B. Lefton.

 6                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   I move to accept 

 7    the report of the Finance Committee, and then 

 8    recognize Senator Krueger, please.  

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   All those 

10    in favor of accepting the report of the 

11    Finance Committee, please signify by saying aye.

12                 (Response of "Aye.")

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Opposed, 

14    nay.  

15                 (Response of "Nay.")

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

17    report of the Finance Committee is accepted.

18                 Senator Krueger on the nomination.

19                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you very 

20    much.  

21                 So I am rising to nominate for full 

22    confirmation on the floor of the Senate, as the 

23    new commissioner of the Department of 

24    Environmental Conservation, Amanda B. Lefton.  

25                 She had the chance to listen to many 


                                                               4160

 1    resolutions today on many different issues.  So I 

 2    thought after yesterday's joint meeting of 

 3    Finance and Environmental Conservation that we 

 4    had covered a very broad set of topics, but I 

 5    think she and her colleagues and family here 

 6    today now see how really interesting the Senate 

 7    is any given day on what we take up.  

 8                 And then you can stick around to 

 9    hear a fascinating debate on an important 

10    environment bill soon after, if you like.  

11                 I'm very proud to say that Amanda 

12    has the votes to come to the floor.  She was an 

13    extraordinarily impressive nominee by the 

14    Governor who has worked in and out of government 

15    on so many of the issues that are challenging us 

16    on the environmental front, on the climate change 

17    front, on the making sure we are protecting our 

18    parks and our wilderness and our air and our 

19    water in New York State.  

20                 There might not be anyone with as 

21    large a portfolio as the DEC commissioner.  And I 

22    feel after an hour and a half, or close to that, 

23    of questioning yesterday, most of my colleagues 

24    who were there actually agree she's ready for the 

25    job.  And perhaps now more than ever, we need as 


                                                               4161

 1    a state to be strong and focused on a critical 

 2    environmental agenda because we're just not sure 

 3    how many partners we have at the federal level on 

 4    all of these issues.

 5                 I know that my colleague Pete 

 6    Harckham, who is the chair of the En Con 

 7    Committee, would like to speak on Amanda's behalf 

 8    as well.

 9                 So thank you so much for your 

10    willingness to do this work.  And you have a big 

11    job ahead of you, and we're counting on you.  

12                 Thank you.  I'm pleased to pass over 

13    to Pete Harckham.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

15    you, Senator Krueger.

16                 Senator Harckham on the nomination.

17                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Thank you very 

18    much, Mr. President.  

19                 And thank you, Senator Krueger, for 

20    an excellent joint hearing yesterday.  

21                 Senator Krueger mentioned 

22    Acting Commissioner -- for another couple of 

23    minutes, at least -- Lefton really impressed, 

24    fielding 90 minutes worth of questions, many 

25    pointed, on a variety of topics.  


                                                               4162

 1                 She comes with the support of the 

 2    environmental community.  Many in the 

 3    environmental community are very excited by 

 4    Amanda Lefton being nominated to head DEC.  She 

 5    has, in her few months as acting commissioner, 

 6    been very proactive at reaching out not just to 

 7    me as chair of the committee, but many members.  

 8                 She's very accessible.  And she is 

 9    going to be leading a really fabulous team at 

10    DEC, but at a very challenging time.  As 

11    Senator Krueger mentioned -- more politely than I 

12    would -- we have no partners in Washington right 

13    now.  And so it's essential that we in New York 

14    maintain our leadership position.  

15                 We're also in a challenging time 

16    with emerging contaminants of PFOS and PFOA.  We 

17    still can't forget about air-quality issues, the 

18    issues of our environmental justice communities, 

19    something the federal government wants us to just 

20    wash under the rug, and we take seriously in 

21    New York.

22                 So she's got her hands full.  But I 

23    firmly believe that she is up to the job.  I am 

24    confident she is up to the job.  But as any 

25    commissioner, she will only be as successful as 


                                                               4163

 1    we empower her to be, as her boss, the Governor, 

 2    allows her to be, and the NGOs and the advocates 

 3    educate and inform her to be.

 4                 So I am very enthusiastic about this 

 5    appointment.  Amanda Lefton is the right person 

 6    at the right time for DEC, and I will proudly be 

 7    voting aye.

 8                 Thank you, Mr. President.  

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

10    you, Senator Harckham.

11                 Senator Murray on the nomination.

12                 SENATOR MURRAY:   Thank you, 

13    Mr. President.  

14                 Let me start by saying finally, 

15    finally we're doing it right.  One candidate, one 

16    vote.  We're actually voting on the candidate and 

17    her merits, and I so appreciate that we're doing 

18    it right this time.

19                 I had the privilege of actually 

20    meeting with the acting commissioner in my office 

21    one-on-one about a month or so ago.  Coming from 

22    Long Island, we have a lot of environmental 

23    issues on Long Island that we have to address and 

24    deal with -- very, very important.  And I was 

25    very impressed with what I saw in speaking with 


                                                               4164

 1    her.  I think she's ready, willing and able to 

 2    work together to address those issues.

 3                 So I will be proud to be voting yes 

 4    today for two reasons.  One, because I think 

 5    she's highly qualified and I support her, but 

 6    also because we're finally doing it right.

 7                 Thank you, Mr. President.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 9    Serrano on the nomination.

10                 SENATOR SERRANO:   Thank you, 

11    Mr. President.

12                 I rise to commend the nomination of 

13    Amanda Lefton for commissioner of DEC.  I 

14    congratulate the Governor for putting forth such 

15    a good candidate.  And in my nearly 21 years 

16    here, a good part of that I've known Amanda to be 

17    a tremendous and staunch advocate for the 

18    environment and for green spaces, as chair of the 

19    Senate Committee on Parks, and over the years 

20    through her work either in government or out of 

21    government, advocating for green spaces, for 

22    connecting more communities to our green spaces 

23    and ensuring that they are viable and safe for 

24    generations to come.

25                 So I look forward to your tenure.  


                                                               4165

 1    And again, congratulations.  

 2                 And I vote aye.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 4    question is on the nomination.  

 5                 Call the roll.

 6                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

 8    the results.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to the 

10    nomination, voting in the negative are 

11    Senators Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Skoufis, Walczyk 

12    and Weik.

13                 Ayes, 57.  Nays, 4.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

15    nominee is confirmed.  

16                 Please rise be and recognized.

17                 (Standing ovation.)

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

19    Gianaris.

20                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   All right.  

21    Let's take up the calendar.

22                 (Reaction among members.)

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

24    Secretary will read.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 


                                                               4166

 1    112, Senate Print 1525, by Senator May, an act to 

 2    amend the Executive Law.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

 4    last section.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 6    act shall take effect immediately.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

 8    roll.

 9                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

11    the results.  

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

14    is passed.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

16    121, Senate Print 1723, by Senator Harckham, an 

17    act to amend the Executive Law.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

19    last section.

20                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

21    act shall take effect immediately.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

23    roll.

24                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 


                                                               4167

 1    the results.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

 4    is passed.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 6    132, Senate Print 120A, by Senator Cleare, an act 

 7    to amend the Public Service Law.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

 9    last section.

10                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

11    act shall take effect immediately.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

13    roll.

14                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

16    Cleare to explain her vote.

17                 SENATOR CLEARE:   Yes, thank you, 

18    Mr. President.  

19                 Extreme weather events seem to be 

20    here with us to stay.  And in the Northeast, 

21    New York City, we have had 8-degree days in 

22    January and 95-degree days in July.  That range 

23    of temperatures underscores why the bill before 

24    us is so important.  

25                 With the average utility bill for 


                                                               4168

 1    New Yorkers being over $200 a month, many times 

 2    individuals and their families must carry a 

 3    balance in order to pay for other necessities of 

 4    life.  

 5                 When this happens, a balance due on 

 6    one's electric or gas bill should not mean 

 7    New Yorkers risk their lives during the warmest 

 8    and coldest days of the year.  This bill is about 

 9    health, safety, and quality of life.  

10                 I proudly vote aye.  Thank you.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

12    Cleare to be recorded in the affirmative.

13                 Announce the results.  

14                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

15    Calendar 132, voting in the negative:  

16    Senator Walczyk.

17                 Ayes, 60.  Nays, 1.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

19    is passed.

20                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

21    165, Senate Print 119, by Senator Cleare, an act 

22    to amend the Emergency Tenant Protection Act.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

24    last section.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 


                                                               4169

 1    act shall take effect immediately.  

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

 3    roll.

 4                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 6    Cleare to explain her vote.

 7                 SENATOR CLEARE:   Thank you, 

 8    Mr. President.

 9                 Over the past several decades entire 

10    rent-stabilized buildings have been acquired by 

11    investors for the sole purpose of deregulation 

12    and extreme profiteering, as opposed to 

13    stewardship.

14                 The most incredible example of this 

15    was when Tishman Speyer acquired Stuy Town-Peter 

16    Cooper Village and promptly lost $2 billion and 

17    defaulted upon their mortgage, declaring 

18    bankruptcy.  If only life for the residents of 

19    such buildings was so easy.  

20                 The legislation before us is 

21    necessary because the structure of LLCs can be 

22    made so complex that literally years go by 

23    without the government, under HCR or HPD, 

24    tenants' rights organizations, or private 

25    citizens being able to uncover who the beneficial 


                                                               4170

 1    owner of their building may be, though the water 

 2    may be out, the heat failing, the ceiling 

 3    crumbling and so forth.

 4                 The good actors in the housing space 

 5    have no problem telling us who they are.  But as 

 6    for some of the others, we need to know.  And 

 7    being tied up in mystery serves no useful public 

 8    purpose.  

 9                 This bill is about accountability 

10    and transparency, and it deserves everyone's 

11    support.  I vote aye.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

13    Cleare to be recorded in the affirmative.

14                 Announce the results.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

16    Calendar 165, voting in the negative are 

17    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 

18    Chan, Cooney, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Mattera, 

19    Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, 

20    Rolison, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.

21                 Ayes, 40.  Nays, 21.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

23    is passed.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

25    291, Senate Print 699, by Senator Krueger, an act 


                                                               4171

 1    to amend the Election Law.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

 3    last section.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 10.  this 

 5    act shall take effect immediately.  

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

 7    roll.

 8                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

10    the results.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

12    Calendar 291, voting in the negative are 

13    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 

14    Chan, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Lanza, Mattera, 

15    Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, 

16    Rolison, Scarcella-Spanton, Stec, Tedisco, 

17    Walczyk, Weber and Weik.

18                 Ayes, 39.  Nays, 22.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

20    is passed.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

22    369, Senate Print 4423, by Senator Hoylman-Sigal, 

23    an act to amend the Estates, Powers and Trusts 

24    Law.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 


                                                               4172

 1    last section.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 5.  This 

 3    act shall take effect immediately.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

 5    roll.

 6                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

 8    the results.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

10    Calendar 369, voting in the negative are 

11    Senators Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Cooney, 

12    Fahy, Griffo, Oberacker, O'Mara, C. Ryan, Stec 

13    and Weik.

14                 Ayes, 51.  Nays, 10.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

16    is passed.

17                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

18    484, Senate Print 707, by Senator May, an act to 

19    amend the Public Health Law.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

21    last section.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

23    act shall take effect immediately.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

25    roll.


                                                               4173

 1                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

 3    the results.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 5    Calendar 484, voting in the negative are 

 6    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Chan, Gallivan, Griffo, 

 7    Oberacker, Palumbo, Rhoads, Stec, Walczyk and 

 8    Weik.

 9                 Ayes, 50.  Nays, 11.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

11    is passed.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

13    551, Senate Print 3261, by Senator Cooney, an act 

14    to amend the Tax Law.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

16    last section.

17                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

18    act shall take effect immediately.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

20    roll.

21                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

23    the results.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

25    Calendar 551, voting in the negative are 


                                                               4174

 1    Senators Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Chan, 

 2    Lanza, Martinez, Mattera, O'Mara, Stec, Tedisco, 

 3    Walczyk, Weber and Weik.

 4                 Ayes, 49.  Nays, 12.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

 6    is passed.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 8    653, Senate Print 2470, by Senator Parker, an act 

 9    to amend the Real Property Tax Law.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

11    last section.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

13    act shall take effect immediately.  

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

15    roll.

16                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

18    Mattera to explain his vote.

19                 SENATOR MATTERA:   Thank you, 

20    Mr. President.  

21                 This bill is a tax abatement bill 

22    for all residents and businesses that install 

23    solar panels.  And then they install electric 

24    energy storage equipment, and you can get some 

25    type of a tax abatement.  


                                                               4175

 1                 Senator Parker, you're the author of 

 2    the bill, and I appreciate, you know, you being 

 3    our chairman on the Energy Committee.  And we 

 4    have very lengthy discussions with our committee.  

 5                 The problem is that this bill does 

 6    not discuss battery storage equipment that is 

 7    made of lithium-ion batteries that could go on 

 8    fire.  We talk about this a lot.  Yes, on fire.  

 9    Over 5 percent of any battery storage units have 

10    a chance to go on fire.

11                 About two years ago this body, this 

12    Senate body here, we passed a bill eliminating 

13    lithium-ion batteries in scooters in New York 

14    City that operated any kind of -- certain 

15    equipment with lithium-ion batteries, and we all 

16    voted yes in this chamber, a New York City bill.  

17                 We are putting our residents and our 

18    families and FDNY and all volunteer fire people, 

19    first responders, all in harm's way.  There is no 

20    kind of fluid, water, foam, powder that will 

21    extinguish any lithium-ion battery fires.  

22    Lithium-ion battery fires burn up to 5,000 

23    degrees, everybody -- 5,000 degrees.  Put water 

24    on it, it turns to steam.  

25                 You know, I sit there and say, you 


                                                               4176

 1    know what, we cannot take any kind of chances.  I 

 2    always tell my constituents, make sure you do not 

 3    leave your electric car in the garage.  The 

 4    percentage is too high to go on fire.  

 5                 Fire departments let electric cars 

 6    burn to the ground because they cannot extinguish 

 7    them and put them out.  

 8                 I have many conversations with our 

 9    fire marshals, fire departments, in my district 

10    and New York State, that have actually been to my 

11    office.  They are happy with the moratoriums that 

12    we have right now installing battery storage in 

13    my communities, in our neighborhood, in the two 

14    towns that I represent.

15                 Battery storage are known to go on 

16    fire in fires that have happened, yes, have gone 

17    on fire in East Hampton --

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

19    Mattera.

20                 (Overtalk.)

21                 SENATOR MATTERA:   -- the town of 

22    (inaudible) upstate -- 

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

24    Mattera, how do you vote?  

25                 (Overtalk.)


                                                               4177

 1                 SENATOR MATTERA:   -- 

 2    (unintelligible) and battery also --

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 4    Mattera, how do you vote?

 5                 SENATOR MATTERA:   -- that are still 

 6    burning. 

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 8    Mattera, how do you vote?  Senator Mattera, how 

 9    do you vote? 

10                 SENATOR MATTERA:   I definitely vote 

11    no.  And please, please, everybody, I ask 

12    everybody to vote no.

13                 Thank you.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

15    Mattera to be recorded in the negative.

16                 Announce the results.

17                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

18    Calendar 653, voting in the negative are 

19    Senators Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Chan, 

20    Griffo, Helming, Lanza, Mattera, Murray, O'Mara, 

21    Ortt, Rhoads, Skoufis, Walczyk and Weik.

22                 Ayes, 47.  Nays, 14.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

24    is passed.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 


                                                               4178

 1    677, Senate Print 2444, by Senator Fernandez, an 

 2    act to amend the Civil Rights Law.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

 4    last section.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 6    act shall take effect immediately.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

 8    roll.

 9                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

11    the results.  

12                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

13    Calendar 677, voting in the negative are 

14    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 

15    Chan, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Lanza, Mattera, 

16    Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, 

17    Rolison, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.

18                 Ayes, 40.  Nays, 21.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

20    is passed.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

22    744, Senate Print 360, by Senator Rivera, an act 

23    to amend the Public Health Law.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

25    last section.


                                                               4179

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 2    act shall take effect immediately.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

 4    roll.

 5                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

 7    the results.

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 9    Calendar 744, voting in the negative are 

10    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 

11    Chan, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Lanza, Mattera, 

12    Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, 

13    Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.

14                 Ayes, 41.  Nays, 20.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

16    is passed.

17                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

18    947, Senate Print 946, by Senator Jackson, an act 

19    to amend the Civil Service Law.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

21    last section.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

23    act shall take effect immediately.  

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

25    roll.


                                                               4180

 1                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

 3    the results.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

 6    is passed.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 8    997, Assembly Bill Number 5298, by 

 9    Assemblymember Pretlow, an act to amend the 

10    Local Finance Law.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   There is 

12    a home-rule message at the desk.

13                 Read the last section.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

15    act shall take effect immediately.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

17    roll.

18                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

20    the results.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

23    is passed.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

25    998, Senate Print 5403, by Senator S. Ryan, an 


                                                               4181

 1    act to amend the Local Finance Law.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   There is 

 3    a home-rule message at the desk.

 4                 Read the last section.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 6    act shall take effect immediately.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

 8    roll.

 9                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

11    the results.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

13    Calendar 998, voting in the negative:  

14    Senators Ashby and Walczyk.  

15                 Ayes, 59.  Nays, 2.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

17    is passed.

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

19    1002, Senate Print 1305A, by Senator Salazar, an 

20    act to amend the Public Health Law.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

22    last section.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

24    act shall take effect on the first of January.  

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 


                                                               4182

 1    roll.

 2                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

 4    the results.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

 7    is passed.

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 9    1022, Senate Print 2224A, by Senator Krueger, an 

10    act to amend the Legislative Law.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

12    last section.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 5.  This 

14    act shall take effect on the 60th day after it 

15    shall have become a law.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

17    roll.

18                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

20    the results.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

22    Calendar 1022, voting in the negative are 

23    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 

24    Chan, Griffo, Helming, Lanza, Mattera, Murray, 

25    Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, 


                                                               4183

 1    Rolison, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.  

 2                 Ayes, 41.  Nays, 20.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

 4    is passed.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 6    1080, Senate Print 354, by Senator Rivera, an act 

 7    to amend the Public Health Law.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

 9    last section.

10                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

11    act shall take effect on the 60th day after it 

12    shall have become a law.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

14    roll.

15                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

17    the results.

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

20    is passed.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

22    1102, Senate Print 17, by Senator Skoufis, an act 

23    to amend the General Municipal Law.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

25    last section.


                                                               4184

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 2    act shall take effect immediately.  

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

 4    roll.

 5                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

 7    the results.

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

10    is passed.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

12    1104, Senate Print 2084, by Senator Kavanagh, an 

13    act to amend the General Municipal Law.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

15    last section.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 7.  This 

17    act shall take effect immediately.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

19    roll.

20                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

22    the results.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

24    Calendar 1104, voting in the negative are 

25    Senators Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Griffo, Rhoads, 


                                                               4185

 1    Walczyk, Weber and Weik.

 2                 Ayes, 55.  Nays, 6.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

 4    is passed.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 6    1112, Senate Print 2499, by Senator Gounardes, an 

 7    act to amend the Workers' Compensation Law.  

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

 9    last section.

10                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

11    act shall take effect immediately.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

13    roll.

14                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

16    the results.

17                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

18    Calendar 1112, voting in the negative are 

19    Senators Borrello, Chan, Gallivan, Griffo, 

20    Helming, Lanza, Murray, O'Mara, Ortt, Walczyk and 

21    Weik.

22                 Ayes, 50.  Nays, 11.   

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

24    is passed.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 


                                                               4186

 1    1143, Senate Print 664, by Senator Skoufis, an 

 2    act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

 4    last section.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 5.  This 

 6    act shall take effect on the first of January.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

 8    roll.

 9                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

11    the results.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

13    Calendar 1143, voting in the negative are 

14    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 

15    Chan, Gallivan, Helming, Lanza, Mattera, Murray, 

16    O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rolison, Stec, Tedisco, 

17    Walczyk, Weber and Weik.  Also Senator Griffo.

18                 Ayes, 42.  Nays, 19.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

20    is passed.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

22    1166, Senate Print 201, by Senator Martinez, an 

23    act to amend the Social Services Law.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

25    last section.


                                                               4187

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 2    act shall take effect immediately.  

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

 4    roll.

 5                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

 7    the results.

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 9    Calendar 1166, voting in the negative:  

10    Senator Brisport.

11                 Ayes, 60.  Nays, 1.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

13    is passed.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

15    1182, Senate Print 1462, by Senator Kavanagh, an 

16    act to amend the Public Authorities Law.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

18    last section.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

20    act shall take effect immediately.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

22    roll.

23                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

25    the results.


                                                               4188

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 2    Calendar 1182, voting in the negative are 

 3    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 

 4    Chan, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Lanza, Mattera, 

 5    Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, 

 6    Rolison, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.

 7                 Ayes, 40.  Nays, 21.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

 9    is passed.

10                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

11    1184, Senate Print 3211, by Senator Kavanagh, an 

12    act to amend Public Authorities Law.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

14    last section.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

16    act shall take effect immediately.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

18    roll.

19                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

21    the results.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

24    is passed.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 


                                                               4189

 1    1190, Senate Print 825, by Senator Liu, an act to 

 2    amend the Labor Law.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

 4    last section.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 8.  This 

 6    act shall take effect on the 90th day after it 

 7    shall have become a law.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

 9    roll.

10                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

12    the results.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

14    Calendar 1190, voting in the negative:   

15    Senator Walczyk.  

16                 Ayes, 60.  Nays, 1.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

18    is passed.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

20    1210, Senate Print 598B, by Senator Hinchey, an 

21    act to amend the Public Health Law.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

23    last section.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

25    act shall take effect on the 90th day after it 


                                                               4190

 1    shall have become a law.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

 3    roll.

 4                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

 6    the results.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

 9    is passed.

10                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

11    1212, Senate Print 1111, by Senator May, an act 

12    to amend the Education Law.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

14    last section.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

16    act shall take effect on the 90th day after it 

17    shall have become a law.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

19    roll.

20                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

22    May to explain her vote.

23                 SENATOR MAY:   Thank you, 

24    Mr. President.

25                 Jawonio is a wonderful preschool and 


                                                               4191

 1    childcare provider in Syracuse.  Founded in 1969, 

 2    it was way before its time in providing inclusive 

 3    learning and care for young children with a very 

 4    wide range of developmental and physical 

 5    abilities.  

 6                 The fact that Jawonio functions as 

 7    both a daycare and a preschool is great for the 

 8    kids and for their parents, but it's a nightmare 

 9    for their administrators, who have to comply with 

10    duplicate personnel requirements from OCFS, which 

11    regulates daycares, and SED, which regulates 

12    schools.  

13                 They deal with different systems of 

14    background checks, different overtime regimes, 

15    and other confusing and outright conflicting 

16    rules.  

17                 This bill creates a single 

18    streamlined process for certification, licensure, 

19    and operation of schools like Jawonio.  And we 

20    hope it will facilitate the development of other 

21    such wonderful institutions.  

22                 The word "Jawonio" derives from an 

23    Onondaga word that means "to set free."  And it 

24    is in that spirit that I vote aye.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 


                                                               4192

 1    May to be recorded in the affirmative.

 2                 Announce the results.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

 5    is passed.

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 7    1214, Senate Print 1418A, by Senator Liu, an act 

 8    to amend the Public Officers Law.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

10    last section.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

12    act shall take effect immediately.  

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

14    roll.  

15                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

17    the results.

18                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

19    Calendar 1214, voting in the negative are 

20    Senators Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Rhoads 

21    and Walczyk.  Also Senator Martinez.

22                 Ayes, 56.  Nays, 5.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

24    is passed.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 


                                                               4193

 1    1216, Senate Print 1464, by Senator Harckham, an 

 2    act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law.

 3                 SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

 5    will be laid aside.

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 7    1217, Senate Print 1578B, by Senator Sanders, an 

 8    act to amend the Public Health Law.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

10    last section.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.  This 

12    act shall take effect immediately.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

14    roll.

15                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

17    the results.

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

20    is passed.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

22    1218, Senate Print 1961, by Senator Gonzalez, an 

23    act to amend the State Technology Law.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

25    last section.


                                                               4194

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 5.  This 

 2    act shall take effect immediately.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

 4    roll.

 5                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

 7    the results.

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

10    is passed.  

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

12    1245, Senate Print 329A, by Senator Bailey, an 

13    act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Read the 

15    last section.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

17    act shall take effect on the 60th day after it 

18    shall have become a law.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

20    roll.

21                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

23    the results.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

25    Calendar 1245, voting in the negative are 


                                                               4195

 1    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 

 2    Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Lanza, Mattera, 

 3    Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, 

 4    Rolison, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.

 5                 Ayes, 41.  Nays, 20.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

 7    is passed.

 8                 Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

 9    reading of today's calendar.

10                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Let's take up 

11    the controversial calendar, please.  

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

13    Secretary will ring the bell.

14                 The Secretary will read.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

16    1216, Senate Print 1464, by Senator Harckham, an 

17    act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law.  

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

19    Stec, why do you rise?  

20                 SENATOR STEC:   Good evening, 

21    Mr. President.  If the sponsor would yield for a 

22    series of questions.

23                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Just to clarify, 

24    Mr. President, this is on the yoga resolution?  

25                 (Laughter.)


                                                               4196

 1                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes, I do.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 3    sponsor yields.

 4                 SENATOR STEC:   Yeah, no kidding.

 5                 All right.  Good afternoon, 

 6    Chairman.  This is my fifth year in the Senate.  

 7    I think we've debated this bill every year.  

 8    Through you, if the sponsor would yield.  

 9                 Affordability is the top concern for 

10    our constituents.  Do you know how much this 

11    legislation is currently expected to cost 

12    New York State consumers?  

13                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Thank you, 

14    Mr. President.

15                 According to Consumer Reports -- 

16    which is kind of the gold standard, not just in 

17    New York but in the United States when it comes 

18    to consumer issues -- it has analyzed this bill 

19    and has reported this will cost New York 

20    consumers zero.

21                 SENATOR STEC:   Will the sponsor 

22    continue to yield? 

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

24    sponsor yield?

25                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.


                                                               4197

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 2    sponsor yields.

 3                 SENATOR STEC:   Are you familiar 

 4    with the study that was done in 2021 and recently 

 5    updated in York University by Dr. Calvin Lakhan, 

 6    and his analysis of the cost of the bill?

 7                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 8    Mr. President, I am aware of the York University 

 9    study.  This gentleman does these studies every 

10    time a state or a province in Canada has an EPR 

11    bill.  And many people question the assumptions.  

12                 So Columbia University did a study 

13    and found that, at most -- remember, we have 

14    Consumer Reports saying "nothing" and 

15    Columbia University saying, at most, $4 per 

16    family for a year.  So zero dollars, $48, and 

17    then you have the York study, which is way out 

18    here and has been actually wildly off on some of 

19    the studies they have done in Canada, where all 

20    of the provinces but one have advanced EPR 

21    regulations on the books.

22                 SENATOR STEC:   Thank you.  

23                 Will the sponsor continue to yield? 

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

25    sponsor yield? 


                                                               4198

 1                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 3    sponsor yields.

 4                 SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

 5    Mr. President.  

 6                 So you disagree with the analysis 

 7    that in 2021 this would cost New Yorkers 

 8    $803 million -- and that's been updated more 

 9    recently to $1.3 billion, representing an average 

10    household grocery increase anywhere from 4.25 to 

11    6.75 percent, or $450 to $732 more per year?  

12                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

13    Mr. President, I do reject the assertion in that 

14    report.  

15                 I believe Consumer Reports.  There 

16    is no more of a, shall we say, blue-blood 

17    independent arbiter when it comes to consumer 

18    issues in the United States than 

19    Consumer Reports.  And when they say this will 

20    cost nothing, I would believe them.

21                 SENATOR STEC:   If the sponsor would 

22    continue to yield.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

24    sponsor yield?

25                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.


                                                               4199

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 2    sponsor yields.

 3                 SENATOR STEC:   There's a long list 

 4    of organizations that have issued memos of 

 5    opposition against this legislation.  Again, the 

 6    legislation that we've been talking about for 

 7    several years now seems to change from year to 

 8    year.

 9                 One of the concerns that's been 

10    expressed has been from the Coca-Cola Company, 

11    where it talks about there's a disparity in the 

12    bill as to whether or not drinking containers 

13    that are covered in the recycling laws are or are 

14    not subject to this.  

15                 Can you expound a little bit on 

16    that?  The concern being that Coca-Cola is saying 

17    that ultimately materials used in their -- in the 

18    beverage industry's packaging would be considered 

19    toxins and would not be allowed to be used and 

20    therefore you wouldn't be able to use aluminum 

21    cans again in the State of New York's package 

22    law -- or EPR law.

23                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

24    Mr. President, there are two things.  

25                 What our colleague is talking about 


                                                               4200

 1    is BPA, which is a known toxin.  It is possible 

 2    to make cans without BPA.  However, we have put 

 3    waivers into the bill so that if a company cannot 

 4    meet a certain provision, they individually can 

 5    appeal to DEC with a waiver.  

 6                 But if I check the list of 

 7    chemicals -- (conferring} -- it would say that 

 8    most of the bottles and cans also have exemptions 

 9    because they're covered by the Bottle Bill.  So 

10    we have language in here that says any beverage 

11    container covered by the Bottle Bill currently -- 

12    which aluminum cans are, so they are exempt from 

13    this bill.

14                 SENATOR STEC:   Would the sponsor 

15    continue to yield.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

17    sponsor yield?

18                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

20    sponsor yields.

21                 SENATOR STEC:   Well, I understand 

22    that.  

23                 But again, going back to what 

24    Coca-Cola has said, as well as the New York State 

25    Teamsters, they expressed very similar concerns 


                                                               4201

 1    where they did acknowledge that you could point 

 2    to the bill and say bottles that are -- or cans 

 3    that are not subject -- or that are covered by a 

 4    deposit are exempt.  

 5                 But then elsewhere in the bill 

 6    language it talks about toxins and it bans 

 7    everything.  Both the Teamsters and Coca-Cola 

 8    have expressed the same concern about the 

 9    language of the bill.  I know that that may not 

10    be your intent, but their read, their lawyers' 

11    reads is that this is going to be an issue for 

12    them.  Which is why they've both issued memos of 

13    opposition.

14                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   First of all, 

15    Mr. President, when we say Teamsters, let's be 

16    very careful.  This is not the state Teamsters.  

17    In fact, we have worked with the state Teamsters; 

18    we put language in here for labor peace 

19    agreements.  We have labor members who will be on 

20    the advisory board.  We have worked very closely 

21    with labor on this.  

22                 What we're talking about is locals 

23    who have been pressured by their parent company 

24    in opposition.  

25                 So we are very clear and we have 


                                                               4202

 1    been very clear since the outset that any bottle 

 2    or can that is covered by the Bottle Bill -- not 

 3    even some future Bottle Bill, but the current 

 4    Bottle Bill -- are exempt from this law.  That's 

 5    a very clear reading.  That is the clear intent 

 6    of this litigation.  And that's what our counsel 

 7    believes as well.

 8                 SENATOR STEC:   Will the sponsor 

 9    continue to yield?  

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

11    sponsor yield?

12                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

14    sponsor yields.

15                 SENATOR STEC:   All right.  Again, 

16    just to be clear, because I want to make sure 

17    we're all -- the New York State Conference of 

18    Teamsters have requested an amendment based on 

19    what I was just talking about, about what it 

20    would do to the beverage industry and the banning 

21    of aluminum cans, essentially.  And the three 

22    groups here are the Teamster Joint Council 16 in 

23    New York, Joint Council 18 in Albany, and Joint 

24    Council 46 in Buffalo.  Thomas Gesualdi, Thomas 

25    Quackenbush, and Jeffrey Brylski, the presidents 


                                                               4203

 1    of those three.  Were you aware of their 

 2    opposition?

 3                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 4    Mr. President.  We also have 315 distinct 

 5    organizations supporting this bill -- public 

 6    interest groups like Consumer Reports, public 

 7    health groups like Physicians for Social 

 8    Responsibility, mainstream environmental groups.  

 9    Because this is a public health bill, this is an 

10    environmental bill, and this is a bill that will 

11    pump millions of dollars into our municipalities 

12    to help them with their municipal waste streams, 

13    and will save municipalities a billion dollars 

14    over 10 years.  

15                 So if we talk about who is opposed, 

16    and they're opposed on reasons that are not 

17    applicable because they are exempt, let's talk 

18    about the 315 distinct groups and the thousands 

19    of advocates who have worked with us on this bill 

20    who support this bill.  

21                 SENATOR STEC:   Will the sponsor 

22    continue to yield?  

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

24    sponsor yield?

25                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.  


                                                               4204

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 2    sponsor yields.

 3                 SENATOR STEC:   So do the Teamsters 

 4    support your -- this legislation?  

 5                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 6    Mr. President, no, they do not.

 7                 SENATOR STEC:   Okay, that's what I 

 8    thought.

 9                 Through you, Mr. President, if the 

10    sponsor will continue to yield.

11                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   However, I would 

12    say that the state organization of Teamsters are 

13    neutral on this bill.  These are locals, as 

14    opposed to the state umbrella group.

15                 SENATOR STEC:   Will the sponsor 

16    continue to yield?

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

18    sponsor yield?

19                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

21    sponsor yields.  

22                 SENATOR STEC:   So you mentioned -- 

23    in the previous answer you talked about the 

24    municipalities in Canada saving an awful lot of 

25    money on EPR.  Did I hear you correctly?  


                                                               4205

 1                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   No, what -- 

 2    there was a study done just this year that shows 

 3    that in the next 10 years New York's 

 4    municipalities, under this law, will save a 

 5    billion dollars a year in their waste efforts.

 6                 And further, because of producer 

 7    responsibility, they'll have to invest in 

 8    municipal waste and recycling.  That will be up 

 9    to $250 million.  

10                 So we're talking a billion in 

11    savings that could be for tax relief, it could be 

12    for teachers, it could be for our fire 

13    departments, and then another quarter of a 

14    billion dollars.  And that's why this is 

15    supported by NYCOM, by NYSAC, and by New York 

16    City, because they realize that this will help 

17    them financially.  

18                 We are drowning, Mr. President, in 

19    trash and garbage.  And who is paying for it?  

20    Our taxpayers, our municipalities, our 

21    constituents -- instead of putting the onus on 

22    the people who are creating the waste and causing 

23    the pollution.

24                 SENATOR STEC:   Will the sponsor 

25    continue to yield? 


                                                               4206

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 2    sponsor yield? 

 3                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 5    sponsor yields.  

 6                 SENATOR STEC:   So I can understand 

 7    NYSAC, NYCOM and New York City government, you 

 8    know, government organizations seeing the 

 9    opportunity for somebody else to pay for what 

10    historically they've been paying and looking at 

11    their own bottom lines and saying this is a good 

12    idea.  

13                 My question is in Canada, with the 

14    EPR bills that are in place already, have those 

15    municipalities in Canada actually seen those 

16    kinds of savings that you're anticipating 

17    New York municipalities to see?

18                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   (Conferring.)

19                 Through you, Mr. President.  To the 

20    Senator's question, we don't have right now 

21    precise information on whether the Canadian 

22    governments have saved money.  We will see if we 

23    can get that in the next two hours, since we'll 

24    be here.

25                 But we do know this was a very 


                                                               4207

 1    detailed study about New York and this bill that 

 2    is estimating a billion dollars in savings to 

 3    New York municipalities.  But we will see if we 

 4    can find out about Canada.

 5                 SENATOR STEC:   Thank you.  

 6                 If the sponsor would continue to 

 7    yield.  

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 9    sponsor yield?

10                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.

11                 SENATOR STEC:   All right.  So my 

12    understanding is that the Canadian experience has 

13    been that they haven't saved any money to date.  

14    But we'll wait and about 7:30, 8 o'clock, maybe 

15    we can have that answer to that question.

16                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Sure.

17                 SENATOR STEC:   But in the meantime, 

18    assuming that we see a billion-dollar savings -- 

19    and oh, by the way, again, I'll remind everybody 

20    that York University seems to think that this is 

21    going to be a net cost to New Yorkers of 

22    $1.3 billion, or $732 a year per household for a 

23    family-of-four grocery bill.  

24                 But let's say, for argument's sake, 

25    that municipalities do save upwards of a 


                                                               4208

 1    billion dollars due to this.  Is there anything 

 2    in this bill that requires those savings to be 

 3    passed along to the taxpayers, the consumers?  Or 

 4    will this money be used -- I mean, can anyone 

 5    expect to see their property tax bill go down as 

 6    a result of this bill?  Is it required in your 

 7    legislation?

 8                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 9    Mr. President.  They could see their tax bill go 

10    down.  I would hope that would be one of the 

11    options.  But we did not want to dictate that to 

12    our local municipalities.  We're a home-rule 

13    state.  Local municipalities should be able to 

14    dictate what they want to do with their money.  

15    And they are held accountable by local voters.  

16                 And so that if they save this money 

17    and they have a surplus in their budget, it 

18    should be up to the local voters to decide what 

19    they do with that money.  

20                 And I would -- I would agree, 

21    property tax relief is badly needed.  I think 

22    that would be -- if I were a local supervisor or 

23    mayor, that would be number one on my priority 

24    list.  But we also know our fire departments are 

25    hurting, we need more teachers, we need more 


                                                               4209

 1    social workers.  These are the types of things we 

 2    can do with that money that aren't at the expense 

 3    of taxpayers.

 4                 SENATOR STEC:   If the sponsor would 

 5    continue to yield.  

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 7    sponsor yield?

 8                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

10    sponsor yields.  

11                 SENATOR STEC:   Just to be clear, in 

12    the legislation is there anything that requires 

13    the savings to be passed on to the taxpayers?

14                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

15    Mr. President, no, we do not.  Because we believe 

16    municipalities should be free to chart their own 

17    course.

18                 SENATOR STEC:   If the sponsor will 

19    continue to yield.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

21    sponsor yield?

22                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

24    sponsor yields.

25                 SENATOR STEC:   But it stands to 


                                                               4210

 1    reason that somebody is going to be paying for 

 2    all of this.  And if the municipalities are going 

 3    to save money, aren't we just shifting the cost 

 4    from the taxpayer to the consumer, which is 

 5    basically the same wallet?

 6                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 7    Mr. President.  We're saving taxpayers money.  

 8    We're saving taxpayers a billion dollars over 

 9    10 years.  And through companies using less raw 

10    material and less packaging, it will cost them 

11    less as well.  

12                 There will be an initial in some 

13    cases cost to retool.  And we have a provision in 

14    here that companies are eligible for tax credits.  

15    But no, we do not expect to see a cost shift 

16    here.

17                 SENATOR STEC:   If the sponsor will 

18    continue to yield.  

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

20    sponsor yield?  Will the sponsor yield?

21                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

23    sponsor yields.

24                 SENATOR STEC:   Thank you.

25                 So do you have any data that would 


                                                               4211

 1    show that companies will save money through 

 2    recycling and using this recycled material you 

 3    just mentioned?

 4                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 5    Mr. President, I don't believe we have data.  

 6                 But I would point to a couple of 

 7    recent studies -- not studies.  There's an 

 8    article, I believe it was in Newsday, and then 

 9    there are a few others that companies on their 

10    own, to address the increased cost of tariffs, 

11    were going with less packaging to save money.  

12                 So companies can do this.  Apple has 

13    already done this; they are a hundred percent 

14    compliant with this.  They realize that it's good 

15    for their bottom line as well.

16                 So we believe companies in the long 

17    run will actually be saving money by using more 

18    circular materials and less material.

19                 SENATOR STEC:   If the sponsor would 

20    continue to yield, please.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

22    sponsor yield?

23                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

25    sponsor yields.


                                                               4212

 1                 SENATOR STEC:   Thank you.  Thank 

 2    you, Chairman.  

 3                 All right, so I'm going to shift 

 4    gears a little bit now.  I understand there's 

 5    seven states -- Minnesota, Colorado, Maryland 

 6    have passed their own versions of EPR bills.  

 7    Recently EPR legislation was signed by 

 8    Governor Walz in Minnesota in May of '24, and 

 9    Maryland Governor Moore signed the legislation 

10    just a couple of weeks ago.

11                 What makes New York's legislation 

12    different from Colorado, Minnesota and Maryland?

13                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   I think the 

14    number-one factor that makes this bill different 

15    is that we ban toxins.  And there are a couple of 

16    reasons we ban toxins.  One is the public health 

17    reason to ban toxins, that certain toxins in food 

18    packaging leach into the food.  

19                 And I bring up the example from last 

20    year when they tried to scare everybody that we 

21    were going to ban Lunchables and so poor kids 

22    wouldn't have Lunchables.  Well, guess what 

23    happened in the last year?  Lunchables were 

24    pulled from the Federal School Meals Program 

25    because of excess levels of lead and cadmium, two 


                                                               4213

 1    of the chemicals that we are pulling.

 2                 The other thing is you can't 

 3    effectively recycle plastic that is contaminated 

 4    with chemicals.  That's why mechanical recycling 

 5    works with certain things but not most plastic.  

 6    Through you, Mr. President, we only recycle 

 7    6 percent of plastic in the United States.  That 

 8    is a dismal percentage.  The rest goes to 

 9    landfills where some of those chemicals leach 

10    into our water supply, or it goes to incinerators 

11    where they're burned and it goes into the 

12    atmosphere.  

13                 So if we want to have a truly 

14    effective EPR regime and be able to actually 

15    recycle more plastic, we have to take the 

16    chemicals out, and that's a major difference.

17                 SENATOR STEC:   Thank you.

18                 Will the sponsor continue to yield?

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

20    sponsor yield?

21                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

23    sponsor yields.  

24                 SENATOR STEC:   Earlier this year, 

25    on March 10th, California Governor Newsom ordered 


                                                               4214

 1    CalRecycle back to the drawing board on the 

 2    state's proposed EPR regulations based on 

 3    concerns that they would impose costs to 

 4    consumers in that blue state.  

 5                 California's cost to consumers on 

 6    the bill was estimated at the state to be 

 7    $300 per household, far different from what you 

 8    thought was zero, much closer to the York study 

 9    that I cited earlier.

10                 Does this legislation go beyond 

11    California's law?

12                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

13    Mr. President.  The issues in California were not 

14    due to the legislation.  It was due to political 

15    complications within their advisory board.  

16                 And then they recently came out with 

17    a new report, and they said two things.  One, 

18    the -- (conferring).

19                 Thank you, Mr. President, to 

20    clarify.  Thank you for the question.

21                 What California found was that the 

22    entire program, if all the costs were just passed 

23    along, would be that figure.  But there would be 

24    far greater savings on the environmental and the 

25    health benefits to families as well, resulting in 


                                                               4215

 1    a net savings to families, not costs.

 2                 But again, the problems that they 

 3    had in California were due to the makeup of the 

 4    advisory board, political issues.  The executive 

 5    director and some of the board members were 

 6    replaced.  As we all know, the governor of 

 7    California is running for president, and there 

 8    were some of those issues.

 9                 Now, you know, let's go in with our 

10    eyes wide open.  We're all adults here, and 

11    there's nothing to say that New York will be 

12    immune from those types of pressures as well.  

13                 But I say that to level-set that 

14    these costs were not -- and the problems they had 

15    in California were not a direct result of the 

16    legislation.  And that report also says that the 

17    savings to consumers will be greater than the 

18    cost to consumers.

19                 SENATOR STEC:   If the sponsor will 

20    continue to yield.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

22    sponsor yield?

23                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

25    sponsor yields.


                                                               4216

 1                 SENATOR STEC:   That argument sounds 

 2    an awful lot like the justification for the 

 3    CLCPA, that, you know, it's going to cost 

 4    $300 billion to entirely change the way that we 

 5    do energy in this state, but the cost savings 

 6    will be greater than that.

 7                 Again, you know, you said Consumer 

 8    Reports said the number was zero to $4; York said 

 9    it was 400 to $732, and California's own 

10    experience -- California's not a red state, 

11    California is very comparable to New York State, 

12    including the way it does its own politics.  It 

13    seems like the governors of both of those states 

14    like to view themselves as future presidents.  

15                 This is still, any way you slice it, 

16    this lands as a $300, in California's case, to 

17    the backs of working families that are trying to 

18    put food on the table.  I mean, $300 is about 

19    what these rebate checks that we're going to be 

20    cutting later this year are, coincidentally.  

21                 You're really comfortable in saying 

22    that taxpayers and consumers will not see an 

23    increase in their grocery bills, like California 

24    was afraid that they were and scuttled their 

25    plans?


                                                               4217

 1                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 2    Mr. President.  The studies that were done on the 

 3    New York bill -- California is California.  The 

 4    studies that were done on the New York bill, 

 5    Consumer Reports, the gold standard of consumer 

 6    protection in this country, says the New York 

 7    bill will cost consumers zero dollars.  

 8                 Columbia University looked at our 

 9    law specifically in the context of other laws and 

10    other programs that had been established, and 

11    looked at our laws specifically, said at the high 

12    end, $4 per family per month.  So it could be as 

13    high as $48 or, if you believe Consumer Reports, 

14    zero dollars.

15                 SENATOR STEC:   If the sponsor will 

16    continue to yield.  

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

18    sponsor yield?

19                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

21    sponsor yields.  

22                 SENATOR STEC:   So again, I continue 

23    to see a parallel track between this and the 

24    CLCPA.  And the question that I had then is 

25    similar to the question that I'll pose to you  


                                                               4218

 1    now.  When do the consumers or the ratepayers or 

 2    the taxpayers, which is basically the same 

 3    person, the resident of the State of New York, 

 4    start to see that savings show up in their bank 

 5    accounts?  

 6                 Because I don't think anyone's 

 7    seeing any savings -- I'm getting calls that 

 8    things are -- prices of energy are going up and 

 9    we're about to start getting calls if this 

10    becomes law that grocery bills are going up.  I 

11    know that everyone's going to try to point the 

12    finger at the tariffs or something else other 

13    than stuff that we do here to drive costs.  

14                 When will consumers start to see 

15    this money show up in their bank account as a 

16    savings?  

17                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

18    Mr. President, it's really, as we've said, up to 

19    the municipalities what they do with the billion 

20    dollars in savings.  It's up to municipalities 

21    how they spend the $250 million investment that 

22    they will get from the Producer Responsibility 

23    Organization to upgrade infrastructure for 

24    recycling and waste hauling.  

25                 And so, you know, this bill is not 


                                                               4219

 1    designed to put direct cash into consumers' 

 2    pockets, but there are also going to be health 

 3    savings costs here.  Like one of the things that 

 4    we haven't discussed, Mr. President, is the 

 5    scourge of nanoplastics.  You know, since we last 

 6    debated this bill last year, and to this year, 

 7    there have been a host of peer-reviewed studies 

 8    that now discuss the health impacts of 

 9    nanoplastics and microplastics on the human body.  

10                 You know, we first thought of 

11    plastic pollution as just pollution.  And then we 

12    thought about, oh, it's something that impacts 

13    marine life.  And now there is a growing body of 

14    evidence -- so as I stand here today I have 

15    nanoplastics in my brain, in my sinuses, in my 

16    respiratory system, in all my major arteries, in 

17    my circulatory system, in my heart, in my 

18    reproductive organs -- and so do all of you.  

19                 And that now has a real health 

20    impact.  They are biopsying brains and they have 

21    found in cadavers six capfuls of microplastics in 

22    people's brains.  These are real health impacts 

23    that are costing our society money.

24                 And these are the things that we 

25    also need to think about, is the need to reduce 


                                                               4220

 1    plastics in our environment.  This is the new 

 2    environmental scourge of our time.  We think PFAS 

 3    is bad.  Our kids -- we have nanoplastics in 

 4    breast milk, in placentas.  We need to address 

 5    this.

 6                 SENATOR STEC:   On the bill.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 8    Stec on the bill.

 9                 SENATOR STEC:   All right, thank 

10    you, Mr. President.

11                 Thank you, Chairman Harckham.  I 

12    appreciate your time on this and your answering 

13    my questions.

14                 Again, I go back to -- and I see a 

15    lot of parallels between this and CLCPA.  

16    Frankly, I see a lot of parallels between this 

17    and a lot that we do around here.  You know, in 

18    the name of, hey, other states are doing this and 

19    we need to do it too, but then we fail to point 

20    out the differences between our legislation and 

21    what these other states have done.  A classic 

22    example of where we did that was bail reform.  

23    Well, there's so many other states that have done 

24    cashless bail.  And then when we looked at it, we 

25    said, You know what, we went far beyond what 


                                                               4221

 1    other states are doing for cashless bail when we 

 2    took away judges' discretion and stuff like that.  

 3                 So when I look at this legislation 

 4    compared to the seven states that are out there, 

 5    and California's pulling back on theirs because 

 6    they're concerned with cost.  And I'm not 

 7    surprised at all that you can get a lot of 

 8    environmental groups that aren't responsible to 

 9    the taxpayers, they're not responsible to 

10    anyone's wallet or livelihood or their 

11    affordability in this state like we are supposed 

12    to be.  It's very easy to say, are you for mom 

13    and apple pie and no plastics?  Yes.  That's very 

14    easy to say.  

15                 What I am struck by is in all the 

16    years that I've been in the Legislature, I have 

17    never seen so many memos of opposition from so 

18    many organizations on this that, frankly, don't 

19    have a lot to do with each other than they know 

20    what they're doing in their industry and they're 

21    trying to comply and they're working with the 

22    federal level and they're working with 49 other 

23    states, and they're all saying the same thing.  

24                 They're saying, you know, we could 

25    live with it the way these other states have done 


                                                               4222

 1    it, but they're pointing to specific things, and 

 2    a lot of them are very similar things that 

 3    they're pointing to, whether it's some of the 

 4    toxins -- they're saying the technology doesn't 

 5    exist for a lot of the mandates that are in this 

 6    legislation.  The timeline -- I mean the 

 7    parallels between this and CLCPA are astounding 

 8    to me.  This is the CLCPA of the recycling world.

 9                 The memos of opposition, my 

10    colleagues:  Air Conditioning, Heating and 

11    Refrigeration Institute, American Beverage 

12    Association, American Chemistry Council, American 

13    Cleaning Institute, American Forest and Paper 

14    Association, Association of Home Appliance 

15    Manufacturers, Can Manufacturers Institute, 

16    Circular Services, Consumer Technology 

17    Association, the Farm Bureau of New York, Food 

18    Industry Alliance of New York, Food Service 

19    Packaging Industry, Kraft Heinz, Local Union 812, 

20    National Right to Work Committee, National 

21    Supermarket Association, National Waste and 

22    Recycling Association, New York State Chemistry 

23    Council, Plastics Industry Association, The 

24    Business Council, Consumer Technology, the 

25    National Supermarket Association -- those are 


                                                               4223

 1    just the ones that came in this year.  There's an 

 2    equal number of them that I won't bore you with 

 3    that I'm sure they haven't rescinded theirs from 

 4    last year.  

 5                 This is going to cost our residents, 

 6    our hardworking -- and it's going to hurt the 

 7    middle and lower income the hardest, because 

 8    you're going to add, depending on whose numbers 

 9    you want to go to -- $48 a year I think is an 

10    overly optimistic number, but it's an increase.  

11    No one is saying, hey, you know what, this has 

12    saved, you know, -- and I can tell you this.  The 

13    rest of the country is not going to -- the people 

14    that are making the food and shipping it here are 

15    not going to change the way that they're doing it 

16    because New York State's market is so big that 

17    they're going to start -- they're going to not 

18    sell here, and we're going to lose businesses 

19    in this state to this law, and this is going to 

20    cost the consumer at the grocery store hundreds 

21    of dollars more a year, hundreds of dollars that 

22    a lot of my constituents don't have.  The phone's 

23    ringing off the hook already about the electric 

24    bill, and the next round of phone calls is going 

25    to be the grocery bill.  


                                                               4224

 1                 For that reason and many others that 

 2    I think we're about to hear from in the next hour 

 3    and a half from my colleagues, I will be voting 

 4    against this legislation.  I encourage all my 

 5    colleagues to be here in the chamber to do so.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

 7    you, Senator Stec.

 8                 We'll all practice our yoga poses.  

 9                 Senator Helming, why do you rise?

10                 SENATOR HELMING:   Thank you, 

11    Mr. President.  If the sponsor will yield for a 

12    few questions.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

14    sponsor yield?

15                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

17    sponsor yields.  

18                 SENATOR HELMING:   Thank you, 

19    Senator Harckham.  Through you, Mr. President.

20                 Senator Harckham, as the chair of 

21    the Senate Environmental Conservation Committee, 

22    did you have a chance to review the New York 

23    State Center for Sustainable Materials 

24    Management, the recycling needs assessment 

25    report, before you wrote the D print of this 


                                                               4225

 1    bill?

 2                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 3    Mr. President.  You're talking about the DEC 

 4    report, right?  One of the things that DEC 

 5    mentions in their waste management plan is the 

 6    need for extended producer responsibility for 

 7    packaging, and they talk -- DEC talks about this 

 8    all the time.

 9                 SENATOR HELMING:   Thank you.  So 

10    through you, Mr. President, I'll go on the bill 

11    for a second here.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   

13    Senator Helming on the bill.

14                 SENATOR HELMING:   So the New York 

15    State Center for Sustainable Materials Management 

16    I believe was contracted to assess recycling 

17    needs throughout the State of New York.  And what 

18    they did is they looked at a number of DEC 

19    regions across the state, evaluated the municipal 

20    solid waste.  And what they found was that more 

21    than 80 percent of municipal solid waste can be 

22    recycled, can be reused or composted.  

23                 Senator Harckham mentioned how 

24    plastics -- I think he used the national average 

25    of how -- percentage of how few plastics are 


                                                               4226

 1    actually recycled.  

 2                 But if I can -- if the sponsor will 

 3    yield for a question.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 5    sponsor yield?

 6                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 8    sponsor yields.

 9                 SENATOR HELMING:   Senator Harckham, 

10    in New York State do you know what it is, the 

11    number-one material that is going into our 

12    landfills that shouldn't be?

13                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

14    Mr. President, it's paper.

15                 SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

16    Mr. President.  If I could go on the bill for a 

17    minute.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

19    Helming on a bill.

20                 SENATOR HELMING:   The number-one 

21    material identified in the report that should 

22    have been incorporated into this bill where we're 

23    trying to address issues is organic material.  

24    It's food waste, it's yard clippings, it's yard 

25    waste, that sort of material.


                                                               4227

 1                 So if the Senator will continue to 

 2    yield for questions.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 4    Senator yield?  

 5                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   the 

 7    sponsor yields.

 8                 SENATOR HELMING:   Senator Harckham, 

 9    does the bill before us address organic 

10    materials?  

11                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

12    Mr. President, this bill does not address organic 

13    materials.  It was not intended to address 

14    organic materials.  It was intended to address 

15    packaging materials.  And if the Senator is 

16    concerned about organic materials and composting, 

17    as chair of the committee I would welcome her 

18    bill and would love to work with her on a 

19    composting bill.  But this is on a packaging 

20    bill, not a composting bill.

21                 SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

22    Mr. President, on the bill for a moment.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   

24    Senator Helming on the bill.

25                 SENATOR HELMING:   So if I were 


                                                               4228

 1    chair of the committee, I would have looked at 

 2    the science before me, the data before me.  I 

 3    would have looked at the report that the state 

 4    paid for and made sure to incorporate those 

 5    recommendations into a recycling bill.  

 6                 But through you, Mr. President, if 

 7    the sponsor will continue to yield.  

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 9    sponsor yield?

10                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

12    sponsor yields.

13                 SENATOR HELMING:   Senator Harckham, 

14    as the chair of the Environmental Conservation 

15    Committee, when you were preparing this D draft 

16    did you take into consideration at all maybe 

17    amending your bill so it's more consistent to 

18    Senate Bill 5062, which is titled the Affordable 

19    Waste Reduction Act?

20                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

21    Mr. President, several things.  

22                 Number one, we wrote this bill 

23    before that bill was introduced.  We made five 

24    rounds of revisions to this bill, speaking with 

25    industry to address their concerns.  In the fifth 


                                                               4229

 1    print of the bill, we made 26 major concessions 

 2    to address the concerns industry has.  So we have 

 3    constantly been listening.  We have constantly 

 4    been addressing issues that have arisen.

 5                 Now, as for the other bill, there 

 6    are some very major differences.  Our bill 

 7    establishes environmental standards for 

 8    packaging; the other bill does not.  Our bill 

 9    reduces toxins; the other bill does not.  Our 

10    bill includes both commercial and residential 

11    waste; the other bill did not.  Our bill does not 

12    put the packaging industry in charge.  It puts 

13    this Legislature in charge.  

14                 How often do we hear on this floor 

15    from the other side, Why are we just ceding our 

16    power to somebody else?  So we have set the 

17    standards in the legislation.  

18                 Our bill ensures strong oversight 

19    and accountability; the other does not.  We 

20    create an inspector general to ensure that the 

21    program is upheld.  

22                 So there are a number of differences 

23    with our bill.  Our bill was written first.  Our 

24    bill I believe is much more encompassing.  And 

25    that's why we have advanced this bill to the 


                                                               4230

 1    floor once again.

 2                 SENATOR HELMING:   Mr. President, on 

 3    the bill.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   

 5    Senator Helming on the bill.

 6                 SENATOR HELMING:   So I'd just like 

 7    to point out, despite these conversations with 

 8    businesses and other organizations, the fact is 

 9    that groups that don't typically align -- labor 

10    groups, business groups, Chamber of Commerce, the 

11    Farm Bureau -- they have all banded together and 

12    said that they have grave concerns about the bill 

13    before us.  That it's going to drive up consumer 

14    costs, especially in the grocery store, and that 

15    it's going to jeopardize the availability of 

16    products that people, especially low-income 

17    people, rely on.  

18                 But through you, Mr. President, if 

19    the sponsor will continue to yield for a 

20    question.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

22    sponsor yield?

23                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

25    sponsor yields.


                                                               4231

 1                 SENATOR HELMING:   Senator Harckham, 

 2    I did have a question on vinyl chloride.  Is that 

 3    a banned substance under this legislation?  

 4                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   (Conferring.)  

 5    Through you, Mr. President, yes, it does.

 6                 SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

 7    Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to 

 8    yield for a question.  

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

10    sponsor yield? 

11                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

13    sponsor yields.

14                 SENATOR HELMING:   So, 

15    Senator Harckham, New York State has invested so 

16    much money, millions and millions of dollars -- 

17    which I totally support -- to remove and replace 

18    asbestos-containing water pipes throughout our 

19    communities across the state.  And in many areas 

20    those asbestos-lined pipes are replaced with PVC 

21    piping.  And PVC piping is made of vinyl 

22    chloride.

23                 So what I'm wondering is, does this 

24    mean our communities -- I think somewhere in this 

25    bill it says that anything that is not exempt, 


                                                               4232

 1    doesn't have a plan, is banned.  Does that 

 2    include the PVC pipe that is used by so many 

 3    highway departments and water departments to 

 4    transport safe drinking water?  

 5                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 6    Mr. President, no, of course not, because it's 

 7    not packaging.

 8                 SENATOR HELMING:   Okay.  So it's -- 

 9    through you, Mr. President, I'll leave that one 

10    and go on.  If the sponsor will continue to yield 

11    to questions.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

13    sponsor yield?

14                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Sure.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

16    sponsor yields.

17                 SENATOR HELMING:   Well, actually, I 

18    am going to go back to that one.  

19                 So if vinyl chloride is used to seal 

20    that PVC piping to deliver it, it's banned.  But 

21    if that same PVC pipe is used to transport our 

22    drinking water, that's okay?  Is that what I'm 

23    hearing?

24                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yeah, if it's 

25    used in the packaging, it is.  But if it's not 


                                                               4233

 1    part of the packaging, it's not.

 2                 And let's be clear.  Polyvinyl 

 3    chloride is a carcinogen.  It's an 

 4    endocrine-disruptor.  It's been known for its 

 5    neurotoxicity.  It causes respiratory issues from 

 6    prolonged exposure and developmental and 

 7    reproductive harm.  

 8                 So this not the kind of thing we 

 9    want to be packaging our consumer goods.  If 

10    we're burying it under roads for culverts and 

11    things like that, that's one thing.  And it's 

12    still legal.  But to use it in packaging would be 

13    illegal under this law.

14                 SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

15    Mr. President, on the bill quickly.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

17    Helming on the bill.

18                 SENATOR HELMING:   So I got it.  If 

19    that product is wrapping PVC piping, that 

20    packaging part is banned.  But if that same 

21    material is delivering drinking water into the 

22    homes of millions and millions of New Yorkers, 

23    under this legislation it's allowed.  Got it.  

24                 So if the Senator will continue to 

25    yield for a question.


                                                               4234

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 2    sponsor yield?

 3                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.  

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 5    sponsor yields.

 6                 SENATOR HELMING:   Senator, my 

 7    understanding of the Packaging Reduction and 

 8    Recycling Organization is that within nine months 

 9    all producers will be required to register with 

10    one Packaging Reduction Organization, which will 

11    be selected by the DEC.  Is that correct?  

12                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

13    Mr. President.  We revised this legislation at 

14    the request of industry to give them this 

15    structure of the PRO.  This is what they wanted.  

16    There is a draft of the bill where it was much 

17    more DEC-centric.  Industry said no, we preferred 

18    the original version, which was this version.  

19                 And so this is a version that 

20    industry wanted.  But someone from the state has 

21    to be in charge.  So they get together, they have 

22    nine months to figure it out.  And honestly, 

23    other states have done this.  There are now a 

24    couple of companies that have been hired by other 

25    states to run these PROs.  These companies who 


                                                               4235

 1    seem to be screaming the loudest are doing this 

 2    in many other states.  They have experience 

 3    setting up PROs.  So nine months is more than 

 4    enough time for them to organize and make an 

 5    application to the state.

 6                 SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

 7    Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to 

 8    yield.  

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

10    sponsor yield?

11                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

13    sponsor yields.

14                 SENATOR HELMING:   Senator Harckham, 

15    do you have any idea how many New York State 

16    producers will be required to register with the 

17    PRO?  

18                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

19    Mr. President, we do not have an exact number.  

20    It's any company over $5 million in revenue or 

21    produces over 2 million tons annually in 

22    packaging.  

23                 So we do not have that exact number.  

24    But to Senator Stec's line of questioning, it 

25    will be far less than California.  We're a 


                                                               4236

 1    smaller economy.  And they have done this in 

 2    seven other states.  And the companies themselves 

 3    have experience doing this.

 4                 SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

 5    Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to 

 6    yield.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 8    sponsor yield?

 9                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

11    sponsor yields.

12                 SENATOR HELMING:   Senator Harckham, 

13    will producers outside of the State of New York 

14    but who do business, bring products into the 

15    State of New York, also be required to register?  

16    And if so, do you have any idea how many numbers 

17    of producers we're talking about?

18                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   If they sell in 

19    New York, they will be required to.  If they 

20    don't sell in New York, they are not impacted by 

21    this.

22                 SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

23    Mr. President, I'd like to go on the bill for a 

24    moment.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   


                                                               4237

 1    Senator Helming on the bill.

 2                 SENATOR HELMING:   So I remember 

 3    last year when we were going through the budget 

 4    time, and we were all surprised by the CDPAP 

 5    information that was contained in the budget.  

 6    And we talked about what the mandate was, is that 

 7    we were going to have this single entity and 

 8    we're going to do away with -- or we were going 

 9    to require all of the consumers and all of their 

10    staff to register with the single entity, and we 

11    were going to do it within a certain time frame 

12    and it was going to work.  

13                 And I have to say that when I read 

14    this EPR proposal, I have visions of the same 

15    thing happening with this program that we're 

16    seeing happening with the CDPAP, the failure.  

17    Because it's -- we just don't have a good 

18    understanding of what is required.

19                 Through you, Mr. President, if the 

20    sponsor will continue to yield for a question.

21                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Mr. President, 

22    might I just respond to the Senator's comments?  

23    And then I'd be happy to yield for a question.

24                 I would just say once again that 

25    this is the structure that the producers 


                                                               4238

 1    requested.  This is the structure that has been 

 2    in the other states where this has been 

 3    implemented.  

 4                 The companies -- this is not about 

 5    consumers.  The PRO is about the companies who 

 6    produce packaging and market in New York State 

 7    have done this in other states and have 

 8    experience doing it.  

 9                 Happy to yield for a question.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

11    sponsor yields to questions.

12                 SENATOR HELMING:   Thank you.

13                 So the PRO has very -- a large 

14    responsibility.  They have to develop the plan, 

15    do data collection, determine reimbursement 

16    rates, collect fees, reimburse departments and 

17    other state agencies.  They have to -- they're 

18    responsible for the distribution of funds to 

19    local governments, educational, providing 

20    technical assistance and so much more.  

21                 But I want to focus just for a 

22    moment on the duties that include determining 

23    fees, collecting payments, and disbursing funds.  

24                 What does the bill include in terms 

25    of language to make sure that, you know, one 


                                                               4239

 1    organization -- an appointed organization who is 

 2    both determining rates, collecting payments, and 

 3    disbursing payments -- to make sure that 

 4    everything is audited correctly, it's legitimate, 

 5    we don't run into problems? 

 6                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Thank you.  

 7    That's a very good question, Mr. President.  

 8    That's why we have an inspector general for this 

 9    program that we have identified in the bill.  

10                 Because to your point, we want to 

11    make sure that everything is aboveboard, 

12    everything is being audited, everything is being 

13    done appropriately.  And so the PRO comes up with 

14    their plan, and then that plan must be approved 

15    by DEC.  

16                 And so if DEC sees something amiss, 

17    they go back to the drawing board, they fix it.  

18    Once that plan is approved, then they begin 

19    making investments.  Some of those payments are 

20    going to our municipalities to modernize 

21    waste-sorting and recycling technology.  For 

22    instance, that our -- many of us have MRFs in our 

23    communities, material recycling facilities.  

24    Those will get significant investments to help 

25    process waste and sort recycling more 


                                                               4240

 1    effectively.  

 2                 But to the Senator's point, there 

 3    will be a lot of money moving through this 

 4    organization, and we want to make sure that it's 

 5    all aboveboard.  And that's why we have created 

 6    the position of an inspector general to do those 

 7    audits.

 8                 SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

 9    Mr. President.  When I read the bill -- I'm going 

10    to go on the bill for a moment.  

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY: 

12    Senator Helming on the bill.

13                 SENATOR HELMING:   Under the PRO it 

14    doesn't say anything about an inspector general 

15    auditing anything, it just simply says audited 

16    financial statements.  

17                 I have a question for the sponsor.  

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

19    sponsor yield?

20                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   I will.

21                 SENATOR HELMING:   Senator Harckham, 

22    have you consulted or have you asked the state 

23    comptroller to review the process for making sure 

24    that everything is done aboveboard?  

25                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 


                                                               4241

 1    Mr. President, we have not.  What we have done is 

 2    we have looked at language that has worked in 

 3    other states for the language for this section.  

 4                 And then we have gone above and 

 5    beyond and we have added the office of inspector 

 6    general to make sure that the plan works 

 7    accordingly and all of the payments are 

 8    aboveboard.

 9                 SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

10    Mr. President --

11                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   If I may say -- 

12    all right.  All right.  So the exact language, to 

13    your point, Senator, the recycling inspector 

14    general shall evaluate the programs and 

15    organizations created pursuant to this 

16    properly -- that they are -- no, I'm sorry.  To 

17    this -- I'm sorry.  

18                 The inspector general shall evaluate 

19    programs and organizations created pursuant to 

20    this title on an annual basis and shall ensure 

21    such organizations are functioning properly and 

22    that all organizations and producers are in 

23    compliance with the requirements of this section.

24                 SENATOR HELMING:   Thank you.  

25                 Mr. President, on the bill.  I 


                                                               4242

 1    didn't hear anything in there about audited.  

 2                 And again, I go to Section N where 

 3    it simply says "audited financial statements."  

 4    It doesn't require the audit to be done by an 

 5    external third party.  It's very unclear.  My 

 6    recommendation is ask the State Comptroller to 

 7    take a look at that.  

 8                 But I would like to ask the sponsor 

 9    to yield for another question.  

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

11    sponsor yield?

12                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

14    sponsor yields.

15                 SENATOR HELMING:   So one -- during 

16    the last debate there was a question about 

17    containers that are subject to the Bottle Bill.  

18    And I think the response I heard is that those 

19    containers are exempt from this language.  

20                 But my read is that it's 

21    questionable at best on whether or not those 

22    types of containers, which is basically a lot of 

23    beverage containers, are actually exempt because 

24    the bill doesn't define packaging.  

25                 And when you read the toxics 


                                                               4243

 1    provision section, it says (reading) applying to 

 2    all packaging, including some or all of those 

 3    categories of packaging otherwise exempt from the 

 4    bill's EPR mandates, such as those containers 

 5    subject to the Bottle Bill.  

 6                 So based on what the -- Senator 

 7    Harckham, what you said, my understanding is your 

 8    intent is to exempt containers that are subject 

 9    to the Bottle Bill.  But would you agree that 

10    this bill language needs some cleanup work? 

11                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Thank you, 

12    Mr. President.  And thank you, Senator, for the 

13    question.  

14                 I just want to find the exact 

15    section of language, and we are -- where it says 

16    Section 14, packaging material or materials, and 

17    then it is laid out below.  And subparagraph (f) 

18    clearly says "Beverage containers subject to a 

19    returnable container deposit under Title 10 of 

20    this article."

21                 So any beverage that is subject to a 

22    returnable container deposit -- soda cans, Coke 

23    and Pepsi, beer cans, Budweiser, Bud Light, 

24    Coors -- all of those are not subject to this 

25    law.  It is very clear.


                                                               4244

 1                 SENATOR HELMING:   Thank you for 

 2    that clarification, Senator Harckham.

 3                 On the bill.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 5    Helming on the bill.

 6                 SENATOR HELMING:   Clear as mud, in 

 7    my opinion.

 8                 But I am going to go on the bill.  I 

 9    appreciate Senator Harckham's responses.

10                 Earlier Senator Harckham made the 

11    comment that we're all adults.  And I couldn't 

12    agree more.  Like I said, despite the fact that 

13    we have organizations who have come together who 

14    typically don't -- labor, right, unions, we have 

15    had Chambers of Commerce, we have had Farm 

16    Bureau.  And we've had hundreds of businesses who 

17    have said this bill is going to drive up consumer 

18    cost, this bill is going to make products that 

19    consumers rely on on an everyday basis -- popular 

20    food items, household cleaning items, and so much 

21    more -- unavailable.  

22                 And by the way, these hundreds and 

23    hundreds of businesses who have written in -- and 

24    as Senator Stec said, I have never received so 

25    many letters in opposition in my nine years on 


                                                               4245

 1    this floor.  But these businesses, they're 

 2    recognized worldwide.  They're sustainability 

 3    experts and leaders in their field.  

 4                 These are companies like Barilla, 

 5    Baldwin Richardson Foods, Mott's, Seneca Foods, 

 6    Kraft Heinz, Dr. Pepper.  We now have Fairlife 

 7    and Chobani.  In our area, Mr. President, in the 

 8    greater Rochester-Finger Lakes region, we have 

 9    more than 250 food and beverage manufacturers and 

10    suppliers employing more than 10,000 people, and 

11    hopefully that number's going to continue to grow 

12    with Fairlife, and with Chobani's expansions.  

13    But who knows, because their packaging materials 

14    could be banned under this legislation.  

15                 And when I think of acting as an 

16    adult, what I'm thinking about as a Senator and 

17    as an adult here on this floor is about every 

18    single working parent, every family who's on a 

19    tight budget, every single poll that shows, over 

20    and over again, New Yorkers want us to address 

21    affordability, cost of living.  And they rely on 

22    the convenience and affordability of so many of 

23    these products that these businesses produce and 

24    that are going to be banned under this bill.

25                 We need to work on a more balanced 


                                                               4246

 1    approach to protecting our environment and 

 2    protecting local employers, local jobs, and 

 3    consumers who are already struggling with higher 

 4    costs.  And there are alternatives.  There are 

 5    solutions to do just that.  So many of them are 

 6    outlined in this taxpayer-funded study, Current 

 7    Recycling Systems in New York.  The 

 8    recommendations were not considered or 

 9    incorporated in this bill.

10                 We also have the Affordable Waste 

11    Reduction Act, another Majority member's bill, 

12    Senate Bill 5062, that is a more workable and 

13    reasonable solution to keep plastics and other 

14    materials that shouldn't be in our landfills out 

15    of our landfills.  

16                 Until we take those reasonable and 

17    responsible steps, Mr. President, I will be 

18    voting no, and I encourage my colleagues to do 

19    the same.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

21    Harckham on the bill.

22                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes, thank you.  

23    I will yield time for more questions in one sec.  

24    I just want to address a couple of things.  And 

25    thank you, Senator Helming.


                                                               4247

 1                 Number one, I want to 

 2    talk briefly -- she mentioned the toxins.  The 

 3    products are not banned.  It's the toxins that 

 4    are banned.  There are plenty of alternatives.  

 5    And when we talk about our families and our kids, 

 6    our families and our kids deserve to have food 

 7    that's not exposed to toxic chemicals where it 

 8    leaches into the food.  That's number one.  

 9                 The issue of the Farm Bureau.  And 

10    thank you for raising that, Senator Helming.  We 

11    had extensive discussions with Farm Bureau.  They 

12    came to us and they said, We want an exemption 

13    for New York agriculture.  You can't do that, 

14    because it violates federal interstate commerce 

15    laws.  

16                 So what did we do?  We raised the 

17    threshold from a million dollars in sales to 

18    $5 million in sales.  Guess what?  Ninety-nine 

19    percent of New York State farms have less than 

20    $5 million in revenue.  So we have exempted 

21    99 percent of New York State farms from this 

22    bill.

23                 And then thanks to Senator Hinchey, 

24    we went a step further.  She came to me and she 

25    said, Well, many of our milk co-ops are small 


                                                               4248

 1    farmers who have come together, they may have 

 2    more than 5 million in sales, but collectively 

 3    they're all individual family farms.  I went with 

 4    her to Kingston, met with some of them at one of 

 5    the co-ops, and now we have exempted dairy co-ops 

 6    less than -- 50 employees or less.  Which is all 

 7    of the smaller players.  

 8                 So we have exempted 99-plus percent 

 9    of agriculture in New York State from this bill.  

10    And I just wanted to put that on the record, 

11    since Farm Bureau came up.  You know, most people 

12    would take 99.X percent as a win.  You know?  If 

13    they don't, that's on them.  But I think that's a 

14    pretty good win that we've exempted over 

15    99 percent of New York State farmers.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

17    you, Senator Harckham.

18                 Senator Borrello, why do you rise?

19                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

20    would the sponsor yield for a question.  

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

22    sponsor yield?

23                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

25    sponsor yields.


                                                               4249

 1                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Through you, 

 2    Mr. President.

 3                 So last month, Beyond Plastics came 

 4    out with a report claiming that New Yorkers could 

 5    save $1.3 billion over the next decade if this 

 6    bill is passed.  Can you tell me who the author 

 7    of that study was and if they have any kind of an 

 8    economics background?

 9                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   They -- I don't 

10    have the names of them in front of me.  Do we 

11    have the report in front of us?

12                 The report was done by Jenny Gitlitz 

13    and Connor Chung.  And Connor Chung is an 

14    independent consultant with a background in 

15    municipal waste.

16                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

17    will the sponsor continue to yield.  

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

19    sponsor yield? 

20                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

22    sponsor yields.

23                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So neither one 

24    of them are economists or packaging engineers.

25                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Waste engineer.


                                                               4250

 1                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

 2    will the sponsor continue to yield?

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 4    sponsor yield?

 5                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 7    sponsor yields.  

 8                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   You know, I've 

 9    heard you talk about Consumer Reports, I've heard 

10    you talk about other folks, the different 

11    studies.  But what I fail to understand is how 

12    they have a crystal ball to explain how we're 

13    going to solve the packaging problems that are 

14    created.  

15                 How will they possibly know what any 

16    industry -- all industries that are going to be 

17    impacted by this?  Particularly the food 

18    industry, which has to worry about food safety.  

19    How could they possibly know what the cost of 

20    repackaging products, specifically for New York 

21    and New York only, is going to impact consumers?  

22    How is that even possible?

23                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

24    Mr. President.  Number one, anything relating to 

25    federal food safety is exempt.  And it clearly 


                                                               4251

 1    states in the bill, we link to federal law, that 

 2    federal law for food safety preempts everything 

 3    in this bill.

 4                 Number two, the -- what is sold in 

 5    our supermarkets is basically sold by less than 

 6    10 companies, all multinational companies.  They 

 7    are doing this all over the world.  They are 

 8    doing this in Europe, they're doing this in Asia, 

 9    they're doing this in Canada, they're doing in 

10    other states.  Kraft Heinz has bragged that 

11    they're 87 percent of the way there in 

12    compliance.  Apple is already in compliance.  

13                 So this is not a new thing to these 

14    multinational corporations.  It just so 

15    happens -- you know, and to Senator Helming's 

16    point why are they opposing this bill, because 

17    they've got a pretty sweet deal.  They're 

18    creating as much waste and pollution as they can, 

19    and our constituents are paying to pick up the 

20    tab.  That's a sweet deal for them.  Of course 

21    we're trying to put the onus on them.  

22                 But they have done this before in 

23    other places in the world, other places in the 

24    country.  And I think the responsibility should 

25    be on them and not on our taxpayers.


                                                               4252

 1                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

 2    will the sponsor continue to yield.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 4    sponsor yield? 

 5                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 7    sponsor yields.

 8                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Well, you know, 

 9    you brought up Europe and others.  And as usual, 

10    New York has decided we're going to go beyond 

11    what anyone else is doing and make a requirement 

12    that's far more onerous, far more expensive.  

13                 So I really don't know how we can 

14    determine that when Europe is only looking for a 

15    5 percent reduction by 2030 from 2018 numbers.  

16    So their packaging reduction is infinitesimal 

17    compared to ours.

18                 So with that being said, I guess 

19    I'll go back to the question.  How can we say, 

20    when we're going beyond California, Canada, 

21    Europe -- how can we possibly determine what that 

22    additional cost is going to be for even those 

23    companies that may have already gone down the 

24    road a little bit, to what it's going to cost 

25    them to specifically package things exclusively 


                                                               4253

 1    for New York and how that's going to impact the 

 2    cost to consumers?  How are we going to know that 

 3    for sure?

 4                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 5    Mr. President.  If you look to Europe, they are 

 6    much more rigorous than we are.  And in 

 7    single-use plastics, for instance, in the takeout 

 8    industry.  So we go to -- everyday people go down 

 9    to Dunkin' Donuts downstairs, people go to 

10    Starbucks, walk around with clear cups, clear 

11    plastic all day.  

12                 What we're talking about is reducing 

13    the amount of plastics in those cups.  In Europe 

14    you cannot get a plastic to-go cup.  You can get 

15    a glass -- and you can bring it back -- to go, 

16    but it's a much more rigorous structure over 

17    there than we have over here.

18                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.

19                 Mr. President, will the sponsor 

20    continue to yield.  

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

22    sponsor yield?

23                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

25    sponsor yields.


                                                               4254

 1                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Well, according 

 2    to the data that I have here -- you start talking 

 3    about Europe and how they're beyond us, that's 

 4    actually not what I'm hearing.  The European 

 5    Union is saying that by 2030 -- a reduction 

 6    target of just 10 percent by 2035, which is 

 7    estimated to reduce packaging waste by 

 8    29 percent, and an additional target of 

 9    15 percent compared to 2018 numbers.  

10                 So that's a total target by 2040, 

11    15 years from now, of 37 percent.  That's nowhere 

12    near the numbers that we're looking for in 

13    packaging reduction, correct?

14                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

15    Mr. President.  We are looking for 30 percent in 

16    the next 12 years.  As I mentioned before, many 

17    companies are doing this already.  

18                 We increased -- that was one of the 

19    changes we made to the bill, we increased the 

20    lookback period.  So if companies are already 

21    doing this, they'll get credit for the last 

22    10 years of their work.  

23                 And the other reason why this is so 

24    important and why we have gone beyond what Europe 

25    has done is because we believe you have to 


                                                               4255

 1    separate the toxins if we want to effectively 

 2    recycle and reuse.

 3                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.  

 4                 Mr. President, will the sponsor 

 5    continue to yield.  

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 7    sponsor yield?

 8                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

10    sponsor yields.  

11                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   All right.  So 

12    we can agree that we're going beyond where Europe 

13    is, and also California, Canada.  

14                 But I want to move on to another 

15    topic.  You know, it's summertime coming up now 

16    and it's going to be that time when you go to a 

17    hot dog, hamburger stand, you're going to get 

18    that hamburger, that hot dog, you're going to get 

19    that little plastic container of ketchup and 

20    mustard so you can go down and maybe sit by the 

21    water or whatever, on a picnic bench, and put 

22    that ketchup and mustard on your hot dog or 

23    hamburger.  What's going to happen to those 

24    packages of ketchup and mustard, under your bill?

25                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   You're talking 


                                                               4256

 1    about the sort of -- the little foily?  

 2                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   The little 

 3    plastic --

 4                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yeah, the 

 5    plastic packette?

 6                 (Conferring.)  So through you, 

 7    Mr. President, the producer of that packet, 

 8    whether it's Heinz or French's, one of those 

 9    brands, they would have to meet the goals of 

10    this.  They would need to -- 30 percent in the 

11    next 12 years.

12                 However, one of the accommodations, 

13    Senator, was that if a company could not meet the 

14    criteria on a particular package, they can do it 

15    across their entire corporate line.  So if they 

16    could not make the goals that are laid forth in 

17    the bill on, let's say, the ketchup packet, they 

18    could make it up on napkins or glass condiments 

19    or things of that nature.

20                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

21    will the sponsor continue to yield.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

23    sponsor yield?

24                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 


                                                               4257

 1    sponsor yields.

 2                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Maybe I misheard 

 3    you, then.  So the plastic packaging is going to 

 4    be outlawed under this law, but if they could 

 5    choose, whatever that more expensive packaging 

 6    that they would have to create, which apparently 

 7    doesn't exist yet for New York, they could just 

 8    spread across their entire corporate line, is 

 9    that what you're saying?  

10                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

11    Mr. President.  We are not outlawing plastic 

12    packaging.  That is factually inaccurate.  

13                 What we're saying is they need to 

14    reduce the amount by 30 -- the packaging, in a 

15    package, by 30 percent over 12 years.  We are not 

16    outlawing plastic packaging.  

17                 And what we are saying, yes, you are 

18    correct, if -- for instance, let's use a ketchup 

19    packet, your example.  If they cannot make those 

20    reductions, they can get credits for other things 

21    in their entire corporate line.  

22                 So if they're selling napkins that 

23    are currently wrapped in plastic, they can 

24    replace that plastic with paper or cardboard.  

25    They can get credit across the entire line, not 


                                                               4258

 1    just on each individual brand.  Because we 

 2    realize at this juncture, or because of food 

 3    safety, they have to use certain materials, and 

 4    the law lays that out.

 5                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

 6    will the sponsor continue to yield?  

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 8    sponsor yield?

 9                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

11    sponsor yields.

12                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So I think what 

13    you're saying is you realize the technology's not 

14    there yet.  So why are we being so aggressive if 

15    the technology isn't there to come up with those 

16    alternatives?  

17                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

18    Mr. President.  We have 12 years.  We got to the 

19    moon in 10 years.  If our food engineers can't 

20    come up with a new ketchup packet in 12 years, 

21    then we have lost our -- we've lost our mojo, 

22    Mr. President.

23                 I have a lot of faith in American 

24    engineering and American technology.  And we have 

25    put in some of these off-ramps in the meantime 


                                                               4259

 1    because we know that there may be technological 

 2    impediments along the way.

 3                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

 4    will the sponsor continue to yield.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 6    sponsor yield?

 7                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 9    sponsor yields.

10                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So let's talk 

11    more about ketchup.  So ketchup in those big 

12    plastic bottles that you turn upside down that go 

13    on the restaurant tables, I think last year when 

14    we debated this you said that those would -- 

15    because they're, you know, thrown in the garbage, 

16    that those would be outlawed in this law.  Is 

17    that still correct?

18                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   No, I did not 

19    say those would be outlawed.  

20                 What I said was they would need to 

21    reduce the amount of plastic in that packaging by 

22    30 percent.  So what can they do?  They can make 

23    them thinner, or they can make them recyclable.  

24                 They -- you know, we -- the problem 

25    is because companies do things for shape and 


                                                               4260

 1    color, that's where the chemicals come in.  And 

 2    that's where the harm comes in.  But if they use 

 3    a mechanically recyclable plastic, they're good 

 4    to go.  

 5                 And Kraft Heinz last year announced 

 6    that they had spent I think it was 

 7    $1.7 million -- don't quote me on that, but 

 8    somewhere around there -- in an R&D effort and 

 9    they came up with a fully recyclable cap for 

10    those exact bottles that you're talking about, 

11    that can be recycled through mechanical 

12    recycling.  And they did that in the process of a 

13    year because of what's happening in other states.  

14                 So those bottles would not be 

15    outlawed.  In fact, what we're saying is no 

16    packaging is outlawed, we're just looking for 

17    more recycled content in the bottle and a 

18    30 percent reduction in all of the packaging.

19                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

20    will the sponsor continue to yield?

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

22    sponsor yield?

23                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

25    sponsor yields.


                                                               4261

 1                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Well, I know it 

 2    sounds like, you know, we're going to demand that 

 3    here in New York State that you're going to have 

 4    a 30 percent reduction in that particular 

 5    package.  

 6                 But I'm sure you're well aware, when 

 7    somebody -- when they're on a production line 

 8    packaging bottles for the entire United States 

 9    and all of North America and beyond, what's 

10    Kraft Heinz -- what is their incentive to do it 

11    just for New York State?  And why wouldn't they 

12    pass along the additional costs to New York 

13    consumers?

14                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

15    Mr. President.  Kraft Heinz has said publicly 

16    that they are 87 percent of the way here to 

17    complying, even though we don't have a law, 

18    because they're doing in this other states.

19                 The reason -- their incentive is we 

20    are the fourth-largest market in the country.  

21    They're not going to abandon this market because 

22    of recycled content obligations that we may have.

23                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

24    will the sponsor continue to yield.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 


                                                               4262

 1    sponsor yield?

 2                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 4    sponsor yields.

 5                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Well, you keep 

 6    talking about Kraft Heinz being 87 percent of the 

 7    way there, but yet I have a, you know, two-page 

 8    memo of opposition in front of me from 

 9    Kraft Heinz.  They're clearly opposed to this.  

10                 So why would they -- if this was -- 

11    if they're so close, why do you think that they'd 

12    still be opposed to this bill?  

13                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

14    Mr. President.  What companies wanted from us 

15    were exemptions.  You name an industry, a 

16    company, they wanted blanket exemptions.  

17                 If we gave exemptions to everybody 

18    who we regulated with laws in this chamber, we 

19    should just pack up and go home.  

20                 So what we did was we gave 

21    off-ramps.  We gave a number of off-ramps.  We 

22    discussed the one where we said a company can do 

23    it across their corporate line, they can apply 

24    for a waiver on the rates and dates.  So if they 

25    cannot feasibly or technologically meet the 


                                                               4263

 1    30 percent goal over 12 years, they can apply for 

 2    a waiver.  And the PRO can apply for a waiver on 

 3    the rates and dates.  

 4                 So there are three major off-ramps 

 5    for companies.  But they just wanted blanket 

 6    exemptions.  And quite honestly, we told 

 7    everybody we're not doing blanket exemptions, but 

 8    we will give you off-ramps if you can't comply.

 9                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

10    will the sponsor continue to yield?  

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

12    sponsor yield?

13                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

15    sponsor yields.

16                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   You know, we've 

17    been told by a lot of the food manufacturers that 

18    are here in New York, some of which we've spent a 

19    lot of time and money to keep here in New York or 

20    attract them -- we've got, as Senator Helming 

21    mentioned, Chobani and Fairlife.  

22                 You know, if this is going to save 

23    them money, why wouldn't they already be doing 

24    it?  It's clearly going to cost them more money, 

25    right?


                                                               4264

 1                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 2    Mr. President.  Many, many companies are doing 

 3    this already.  They have sustainability 

 4    commitments that they have made voluntarily.  

 5    Coke and Pepsi are working aggressively to get to 

 6    the 100-percent recyclable level in their 

 7    bottles.  

 8                 Now, many consumers and -- consumer 

 9    advocates, I should say, and environmentalists 

10    may accuse them of greenwashing in their 

11    accounting as to how they're getting there.  But 

12    one of the reasons that we see much more 

13    packaging in film -- so, for instance, sour cream 

14    you now see in a squirt film as opposed to a 

15    plastic container.  They're doing that because 

16    they're producing less plastic in their 

17    packaging.  

18                 So many, many companies are doing 

19    this, number one, because it's a good corporate 

20    thing to do.  But number two, it's going to save 

21    them money.  A millimeter of plastic over a 

22    million units can save them a heck of a lot of 

23    money.

24                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

25    on the bill.


                                                               4265

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 2    Borrello on the bill.

 3                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   You know, I 

 4    think we've all experienced those plastic water 

 5    bottles where they've made them thinner and 

 6    they're celebrating how they've reduced the 

 7    amount of plastic.  And then, you know, the thing 

 8    crumples in your hand and the water -- but it's 

 9    water, right, that's okay.  

10                 But when you're in the food business 

11    it's a little different.  Getting a case of sour 

12    cream where the package has been compromised  

13    delivered to your restaurant and then serving 

14    that compromised sour cream to your customers is 

15    a problem.  

16                 And I know that Senator Harckham 

17    said, Well, we're going to make exemptions for 

18    food safety.  But really we're not being specific 

19    about those things.  We're saying you're going to 

20    reduce that packaging and essentially we're going 

21    to have situations where we are going to 

22    compromise food safety in order to reach those 

23    goals.  

24                 But, you know, let's just be 

25    realistic here.  We can talk about how wonderful 


                                                               4266

 1    this is and it's going to save money, but we have 

 2    countless memos of opposition from the companies 

 3    that allegedly are already going to be saving 

 4    money by following this rule.  But they're not.  

 5    That's not how they look at this.  And it's 

 6    certainly not how they're going to approach it 

 7    with New York consumers.  

 8                 Right now you can no longer use 

 9    Styrofoam containers or to-go containers.  And we 

10    made exemptions.  You can't have a plastic bag to 

11    take your groceries out of the grocery store, but 

12    you have a plastic bag, you know, for your 

13    restaurant.  

14                 But either way, the bottom line is 

15    visited upon the consumers of New York State to 

16    pay for that.  Many restaurants now are charging 

17    for a to-go container because they're 10 times 

18    the cost of a Styrofoam container.  It is going 

19    to cost New York consumers a lot of money to do 

20    this.  

21                 You know, go to a state that has 

22    reformulated gas in the summertime.  It's like a 

23    dollar a gallon more to make gas for big states 

24    like California and yet you'll pay more there for 

25    their reformulated gas than you will in 


                                                               4267

 1    neighboring states because it is a boutique item.  

 2    It is something that's only made for that state.  

 3                 This is what we're telling the 

 4    consumer product industry:  You're going to make 

 5    special packaging just for New York.  And if they 

 6    continue to even want to deliver those products 

 7    to New York State, they're going to charge us 

 8    more money for that.  That's the bottom line.  

 9    That is the history that we've seen, is you're 

10    either going to get an inferior product or a more 

11    expensive product.  Those are really the only two 

12    options.  We've seen it time and time again.  

13                 We're talking about technology that 

14    doesn't exist yet that we're going to rely on to 

15    try to create this advanced technology and it's 

16    just not there.  

17                 So for all of those reasons, and for 

18    the fact that affordability is something that we 

19    talk about but don't actually practice here in 

20    New York State, I'll be voting no.

21                 Thank you.

22                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Quickly on the 

23    bill, Mr. President.  I just want to add a fact.

24                 All right, never mind.  I'll work it 

25    in next time.  Thank you, George.


                                                               4268

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 2    Walczyk, why do you rise?

 3                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Mr. President, I 

 4    was hoping the sponsor would yield for some 

 5    questions.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 7    sponsor yield?

 8                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.  But --

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

10    sponsor yields.

11                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   -- if I can 

12    answer one of George's questions too.  One of 

13    Senator Borrello's questions.

14                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   This is my time.  

15    Through you, Mr. President.

16                 Recognizing -- and you talked about 

17    how it took us 10 years to land on the moon.  It 

18    actually took humanity 300,000 years.  But we 

19    have launched satellites into space which are 

20    connected to supercomputers in our pockets, yet 

21    we haven't created another safe way to package 

22    meat products other than using some plastic 

23    products.

24                 Other states, because of that fact, 

25    have given exemptions to meat products.  Why 


                                                               4269

 1    doesn't your bill exempt meat products?  

 2                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 3    Mr. President.  We clearly state in the law 

 4    that -- excuse me, guys.  I'm sorry.  

 5                 (To Senator Gianaris)  Mike?  Mike?  

 6    Mike?

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   If we 

 8    could have decorum in the house.

 9                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Thank you.  

10                 Our bill clearly states that nothing 

11    in this bill overrides federal food safety 

12    legislation.

13                 So if producers cannot find 

14    alternative packaging for meat packaging, to your 

15    point, then they don't have to.  They can use 

16    whatever other packaging they have been using to 

17    keep those meat products safe.

18                 So we did not give a blanket 

19    exemption.  As we said in my earlier comments, 

20    the goal of this was not to exempt every industry 

21    on the planet, but the goal was to give 

22    reasonable off-ramps, and that was one.

23                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

24    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

25    yield.


                                                               4270

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 2    sponsor yield?

 3                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 5    sponsor yields.

 6                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Earlier you -- in 

 7    debate you said the Legislature is in charge.  So 

 8    who will provide the exemption, who will 

 9    provide -- be able to determine whether those 

10    products are feasible or not?

11                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   That would be -- 

12    through you, Mr. President, that will be DEC.

13                 So whether it's the PRO looking for 

14    exemptions broadly in terms of rates and dates, 

15    or whether it's a company looking for an 

16    exemption on rates and dates, that will go to 

17    DEC, those applications.

18                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

19    Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to 

20    yield.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

22    sponsor yield?

23                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

25    sponsor yields.


                                                               4271

 1                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   How many state 

 2    legislators -- since the State Legislature is in 

 3    charge of this process, how many state 

 4    legislators serve in the DEC?

 5                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 6    Mr. President.  When we were talking about the 

 7    State Legislature being involved, we were 

 8    comparing it to another bill.  And what we are 

 9    doing is we are setting the reduction and 

10    recycling targets.  And the recyclability 

11    determinations, those percentages, those are all 

12    laid out in the law.  

13                 I was saying that our law is more 

14    prescriptive.  I was not saying we are involved 

15    in the implementation.  We create laws, and the 

16    executive branch and the agencies implement and 

17    administer laws.

18                 So I was not intimating that we were 

19    involved.  What I was saying -- and if I need to 

20    clarify, I apologize -- was this law is much more 

21    prescriptive than another law that a question was 

22    raised about.  

23                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

24    Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to 

25    yield.


                                                               4272

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 2    sponsor yield?

 3                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 5    sponsor yields.

 6                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   How would plastic 

 7    safety rings, tamper proofing for pickle jars or 

 8    plastic -- the thin plastic that goes over a 

 9    plastic tub before the top of it goes on there -- 

10    how would those safety measures be impacted by 

11    this legislation?

12                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

13    Mr. President.  It's cumulative.  So as long as 

14    they are making that up in other areas of that 

15    individual package or across the product line, it 

16    would have no impact at all.

17                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And through you, 

18    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

19    yield?

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Does the 

21    sponsor yield?

22                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

24    sponsor yields.

25                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   What if someone 


                                                               4273

 1    in the industry -- and I know you've talked quite 

 2    a bit about Kraft Heinz, for example -- if, you 

 3    know, they've got cream cheese in a plastic tub 

 4    that has that thin lid.  Obviously the tub is 

 5    recyclable.  But you're telling me that plastic 

 6    safety measure, they would have to make up 

 7    somewhere else in their portfolio?  Am I reading 

 8    that right?

 9                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   That is correct.

10                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

11    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

12    yield.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

14    sponsor yield?

15                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

17    sponsor yields.

18                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   So if an industry 

19    has already gotten to that 87 percent but they're 

20    saying, It is critical for USDA compliance and 

21    for us to have this safety measure, we've done 

22    all that we can, we don't have an additional 

23    13 percent -- where in their portfolio could they 

24    possibly come up with this?  How can we force 

25    them to -- after they've done their best as a 


                                                               4274

 1    corporation, how can we force them to remove that 

 2    safety seal or take that product off the line?

 3                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Well, through 

 4    you, Mr. President, we're not forcing anyone to 

 5    remove safety seals.  As we said, nothing in this 

 6    law preempts federal food safety requirements.  

 7                 Number two, we don't know that -- 

 8    you know, I've said 87 percent because that's the 

 9    number that they've used publicly.  We don't know 

10    they can't get to 90 to 95 percent.  But if it is 

11    not technologically feasible for them to get 

12    there, they can apply for a waiver.  

13                 So, for instance, companies that 

14    sell organic earth products, soil and mulch and 

15    things like that, when I was a kid they used to 

16    be sold in paper bags.  And they would get wet, 

17    they would get muddy, so nurseries used to have 

18    to cover them with tarps.  Now they're stored -- 

19    they come in plastic bags.  

20                 And we have heard some concern that 

21    in 12 years they may not able to be reach the 

22    goal.  They're working on new technologies, they 

23    don't know if they will be there.  They can apply 

24    for a waiver to DEC and say, Hey, look, this is 

25    the science of the polymers, this is where we 


                                                               4275

 1    are, we think we're two years away, but we're 

 2    going to be late.  Can we have a waiver to get 

 3    there?  And DEC, after reviewing the science and 

 4    reviewing what they say, can say, You know, 

 5    you're right, you've got another two years to 

 6    comply.

 7                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

 8    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

 9    yield.  

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

11    sponsor yield?

12                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

14    sponsor yields.

15                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Yeah, I 

16    appreciate that.  Because we've essentially 

17    eliminated botulism, it's not much of a concern 

18    in our society, and I have a lot of concerns 

19    about the safety seals that go over food 

20    packaging.  And so does the industry, especially 

21    the industry that's worked to advance.  

22                 I know a number of times in this 

23    debate you've said they could do a lot better, 

24    there's a ton of waste out there.  There's many 

25    industries that your legislation is impacting 


                                                               4276

 1    right now that have done their darndest to reduce 

 2    and get as efficient as they possibly can with 

 3    every material.  Because the market demands it, 

 4    frankly, not necessarily just out of 

 5    environmental stewardship.  Sure, that, and 

 6    recycling plastics.  But because the market 

 7    demands that they bring those margins down for 

 8    their own business model.  

 9                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   And to that 

10    point, if I may, just very quickly.  I agree with 

11    you.  You make an excellent point.  And that's 

12    why we have the 12-year lookback.  

13                 So if companies have already done 

14    this, when the law goes into effect companies can 

15    say, This is what we've done over the last 

16    12 years.  They get credit for that.  They get 

17    credit towards what the future goals are.  And 

18    that's how we reward the good actors.

19                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

20    Mr. President, would the sponsor yield?

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

22    sponsor yield?

23                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

25    sponsor yields.


                                                               4277

 1                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Yeah, on that 

 2    point, you're aware that it takes between five 

 3    and 10 years for the food industry to develop a 

 4    new packaging product and then get USDA approval 

 5    for that project -- for that product?

 6                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 7    Mr. President.  My father was in the packaging 

 8    business, so I've learned a lot about the 

 9    packaging business growing up.  It is a lengthy 

10    process.  

11                 And, you know, one of the things he 

12    said was when plastic first came out in really 

13    the '70s -- started to see some in the '60s, but 

14    food packaging really in the '70s was -- it was a 

15    revolution because of what you talk about:  Food 

16    safety, shelf stability, easier to transport, 

17    much safer.  

18                 And then later years in his life he 

19    said, But we never anticipated the waste.  

20    Because back then landfill space was plentiful.  

21    We had been told this false notion by the 

22    plastics industry that it was all recyclable.  

23    And in fact it was being shipped to Asia.  

24                 So what started out as really a 

25    miracle wonder packaging product has become a 


                                                               4278

 1    nightmare as we see how hard it is to get rid of 

 2    this stuff and what the health impacts are.

 3                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And through you, 

 4    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

 5    yield.  

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 7    sponsor yield?

 8                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

10    sponsor yields.

11                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   So I know earlier 

12    in the debate we talked about PVC a bit.  This is 

13    on -- PVC is on your list of toxins, is that 

14    correct?

15                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   It is.  And 

16    remember, these are toxins in packaging.  We are 

17    not removing them entirely.  Through you, 

18    Mr. President.  We're not -- these are not bans 

19    on these chemicals in New York State.  These are 

20    bans on these chemicals in packaging.

21                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And through you, 

22    Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to 

23    yield?

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

25    sponsor yield?


                                                               4279

 1                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 3    sponsor yields.

 4                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   So PVC is used 

 5    in -- you know, as Senator Helming pointed out, 

 6    in drinking water delivery systems as well as 

 7    IV bags in hospitals.  Not necessarily toxic in 

 8    the way that it's applied.  I notice that you 

 9    chose a glass water bottle.  Would the water 

10    bottle on your desk, which doesn't have a 

11    five-cent deposit, would that be impacted by this 

12    legislation?  

13                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   A good question.

14                 (Conferring.)  So through you, 

15    Mr. President.  As we said, if it's not subject 

16    to the Bottle Bill, which pretty much all 

17    refillable water bottles like this would be, it 

18    would be under the provisions of this law.

19                 However, it can have recycled 

20    content, it can be reused, refilled.  There are a 

21    number of ways that they can comply.  

22                 And just if I may, Mr. President, to 

23    your point about PVC in medical products, all 

24    medical products are exempt in this bill.  I know 

25    there was a question about that last year.  Just 


                                                               4280

 1    to be clear, all medical products are exempt in 

 2    this bill.

 3                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And through you, 

 4    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

 5    yield?  

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 7    sponsor yield?

 8                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

10    sponsor yields.

11                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   So the water 

12    bottle on your desk, the PVC ring that's inside 

13    the cap, then, this -- the company that produces 

14    that bottle would have to redesign that or make 

15    up for that little PVC ring out of the water 

16    bottle that you're drinking?  Is that how I'm 

17    understanding this?

18                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

19    Mr. President.  If there's PVC in the product, 

20    because it's food packaging, yes, it would be 

21    banned and they would have to come up with 

22    another technology.

23                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

24    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

25    yield?  


                                                               4281

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 2    sponsor yield?

 3                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 5    sponsor yields.

 6                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   You've also 

 7    listed PVDC, Saran Wrap, as a toxin as well, is 

 8    that correct?  

 9                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

10    Mr. President, would you repeat the question 

11    again?

12                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Yeah, PVDC.  So I 

13    would point you to page 21, where you list 

14    toxins, polyvinyl chloride, PVC, and including 

15    polyvinylidene chloride, PVDC.  Saran Wrap being 

16    the most common application for PVDC.  See that 

17    listed right there on line 48.

18                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   That is 

19    accurate, Senator.

20                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And through you, 

21    Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to 

22    yield?

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Does the 

24    sponsor yield?

25                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.


                                                               4282

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 2    sponsor yields.

 3                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Is Saran Wrap 

 4    toxic?

 5                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   We are saying 

 6    that the chemical is known to be toxic, yes.

 7                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

 8    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

 9    yield?  

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

11    sponsor yield?

12                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

14    sponsor yields.

15                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And so then 

16    carrying that forward, adding to the ban on 

17    toxics in this section of the bill, page 22, 

18    gives a -- this would be a $10,000 fine if 

19    someone were to sell a product that had 

20    Saran Wrap on it in the State of New York once 

21    your bill goes into effect?

22                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

23    Mr. President.  To your question, Senator, is -- 

24    I am not going to say a particular product is 

25    dangerous.  


                                                               4283

 1                 But what the chemical -- the PVDC is 

 2    a known carcinogen linked to toxic effects in 

 3    nearly every major organ system.  We can go 

 4    further as to what the health impacts are.  

 5                 The fine is not directed.  So if 

 6    you're a local deli and that's how they wrap 

 7    their sandwiches, the fine is not to them, the 

 8    fine would be to the company that's producing and 

 9    selling the product to New York.

10                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And through you, 

11    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

12    yield.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

14    sponsor yield?

15                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

17    sponsor yields.

18                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   So once your bill 

19    goes into effect, any company that would sell the 

20    Saran Wrap in the State of New York, you wouldn't 

21    be able to use Saran Wrap anymore if this goes 

22    into effect for a bake sale or at a deli, it 

23    wouldn't be accessible, because the company 

24    selling it would have a $10,000 fine for selling 

25    it in the State of New York.


                                                               4284

 1                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 2    Mr. President.  There are other applications and 

 3    other chemicals that can be used in wraps.  They 

 4    don't have to use this chemical.  That's the 

 5    whole thing.  We get back to the earlier question 

 6    about is a certain bottle or package going to be 

 7    banned.  

 8                 This is not about banning packaging 

 9    that -- alternatives are out there, and we 

10    encourage alternatives.  We just -- what we're 

11    trying to do is get safe, sustainable packaging.

12                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Quickly on the 

13    bill.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

15    Walczyk on the bill.

16                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   So just -- 

17    clearly, and I just want to button that up, what 

18    this effectively is, is a ban on Saran Wrap in 

19    the State of New York.  If you were to sell 

20    Saran Wrap in the State of New York, that will be 

21    a $10,000 fine.  

22                 Through you, Mr. President, if the 

23    sponsor will continue to yield.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

25    sponsor yield? 


                                                               4285

 1                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 2    Mr. President, we've just been advised by counsel 

 3    that they no longer make Saran Wrap with PVDC.  

 4    They now use a different application.  So as long 

 5    as what they're making it with is not on the 

 6    list, then they're fine.

 7                 SENATOR WALCZYK:  Does he yield, 

 8    Mr. President?

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

10    sponsor yield for questions?  

11                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

13    sponsor yields.

14                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   That's not my 

15    understanding.  

16                 But the bill's ban on toxic 

17    materials applies to packaging materials, but 

18    it's unclear if packaging includes the 

19    five-cent -- we talked about five-cent bottles a 

20    little bit.  I think actually in this debate 

21    you've made that a little bit more clear.  You 

22    did say that the Bottle Bill containers are 

23    exempt, is that correct?  

24                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   That is correct, 

25    Mr. President.  


                                                               4286

 1                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

 2    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

 3    yield.  

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 5    sponsor yield?

 6                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 8    sponsor yields.

 9                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And that includes 

10    plastic bottles that are part of the Bottle Bill 

11    as well?  

12                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

13    Mr. President, absolutely.  

14                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And through you, 

15    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

16    yield?  

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

18    sponsor yield?

19                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

21    sponsor yields.  

22                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Is that true even 

23    if those plastic bottles have BPA in them?

24                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Good question.

25                 Through you, Mr. President, they are 


                                                               4287

 1    exempt.

 2                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And through you, 

 3    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

 4    yield.  

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 6    sponsor yield? 

 7                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 9    sponsor yields.

10                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Why?

11                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

12    Mr. President, is we're talking about the 

13    systems.  And the Bottle Bill is a separate 

14    system.  And we're talking about a recycling 

15    system here.  

16                 Again, so this is -- if they are 

17    not covered -- under this bill, if they're part 

18    of the Bottle Bill, they're not covered.  

19                 And, you know, perhaps if you, 

20    Senator, would like to offer a companion bill 

21    to -- that would say we need to take out those 

22    chemicals in all packaging, not just things 

23    covered by this bill -- which is a lot of 

24    packaging -- you know, we'd be happy to entertain 

25    that.  


                                                               4288

 1                 But you do raise an interesting 

 2    point.

 3                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Mr. President.  

 4    Quickly on the bill.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 6    Walczyk on the bill.

 7                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   I got it.  Just 

 8    to button that up, if you pay five cents for a 

 9    deposit, we will allow, at least by the 

10    chairman's view, toxic plastic bottles to be 

11    available to you if you pay that five cents.  

12                 However, if it's packaging that you 

13    don't pay a five-cent deposit on and -- we will 

14    not save you from those harmful things.  

15                 But if the sponsor will continue to 

16    yield.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

18    sponsor yield?

19                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

21    sponsor yields.

22                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   The definition of 

23    packaging in this bill, it's not clearly defined.  

24    You do define packaging materials, you list them 

25    out.  Toxins, all those things --


                                                               4289

 1                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 2    Mr. President.  We did -- we did have a lot of 

 3    time and there is a lot of verbiage in here 

 4    defining exactly what the package is.  

 5                  Through you, Mr. President, this is 

 6    a very lengthy section of the bill with many 

 7    subsections.  If it's all right, I'll just read 

 8    the first paragraph, Mr. President.  Happy to 

 9    read other sections if the Senator would like.  

10                 "'Packaging material' or 'material' 

11    means a discrete material or category of 

12    material, regardless of recyclability, including 

13    but not limited to such material types that are 

14    flexible foam or rigid material, including paper, 

15    cardboard, plastic, glass, metal, or 

16    multi-material that is used for the containment, 

17    protection, handling, delivery, transport, 

18    distribution or presentation of another product 

19    that is sold, offered for sale, imported or 

20    distributed in the state, including through an 

21    internet transaction and single-use plastic 

22    products."

23                 "Packaging material does not 

24    include," and then there are a number of things 

25    that it does not include, things like, you know, 


                                                               4290

 1    medical equipment, medical foods, and some of the 

 2    other things that we've discussed.

 3                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Thank you.  

 4    Through you, Mr. President, if the sponsor will 

 5    continue to yield.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 7    sponsor yield?

 8                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

10    sponsor yields.

11                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   On page 25 you 

12    talk about the recyclability criteria.  On 

13    line 23 of page 25 you require producers of 

14    products sold in New York to have a consistent 

15    regional market for purchase of new products.  

16                 What happens if those markets don't 

17    develop?  These things are outside of the control 

18    of producers.  They don't get to decide whether 

19    there's a market.

20                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

21    Mr. President, that is the whole point of the 

22    Producer Responsibility Organization, is to 

23    create those regional markets to make the 

24    efficient -- the system much more efficient.

25                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 


                                                               4291

 1    Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to 

 2    yield.  

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 4    sponsor yield?

 5                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 7    sponsor yields.  

 8                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   But my question 

 9    was what happens if those markets don't develop.

10                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

11    Mr. President.  As with other areas of the bill, 

12    if someone cannot comply because of market 

13    conditions or technology, they can apply for a 

14    waiver.  Or the PRO, on behalf of everybody in 

15    the system, can apply for a waiver.  

16                 That is one of the waivers that we 

17    haven't spoken about, is that when the Producer 

18    Responsibility Organization puts this whole 

19    marketplace together, after they've done their 

20    analysis, two-year analysis, they can go to DEC 

21    and say, Look, we have done a thorough analysis 

22    and we honestly believe we can't get to these 

23    markets for 14 years, not 12 years.  

24                 Then DEC has the ability to grant 

25    them a waiver and move it from 12 years to 


                                                               4292

 1    14 years.  So there is flexibility to address 

 2    that.

 3                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

 4    Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to 

 5    yield.  

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 7    sponsor yield?

 8                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

10    sponsor yields.

11                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   This bill 

12    includes provisions for packaging reuse programs 

13    and requires producers to develop packaging reuse 

14    infrastructure.  

15                 How do you reuse a Go-Gurt packet or 

16    a string-cheese plastic packaging?  How do you 

17    reuse those things?  How would you develop a 

18    reuse infrastructure for those products?

19                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

20    Mr. President, it's not on every single product 

21    item.

22                 So, for instance, you might be old 

23    enough to remember this and I don't mean to 

24    insult you, but I certainly remember this, is 

25    when I was a kid we bought soda bottles, they 


                                                               4293

 1    came in thick glass.  And when we were finished 

 2    with them, we rinsed them out, we put them in the 

 3    garage, and then when my mother got sick of 

 4    looking at them, we took them back to the grocery 

 5    store and they were refilled.  

 6                 That's what a circular economy is.

 7                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And through you, 

 8    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

 9    yield.  

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

11    sponsor yield?

12                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes, 

13    Mr. President.  

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

15    sponsor yields.  

16                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   DEC's Air Guide-1 

17    lists 1,000 chemicals.  This bill says that toxic 

18    substances, including a chemical or chemical 

19    class that may have adverse air quality impacts.  

20    Are these thousands of chemicals eligible for a 

21    ban?

22                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

23    Mr. President.  We have -- in consultation with 

24    public health experts, we have identified 12 for 

25    a ban.  Things like PVC, lead, cadmium -- some of 


                                                               4294

 1    the ones that we talk about quite frequently.

 2                 A mechanism is set up where there is 

 3    an advisory group that would discuss the 

 4    potential for future chemicals that could be 

 5    banned that would entail a rigorous scientific 

 6    process in order to prove that these chemicals 

 7    were harmful.

 8                 The reason we're going down this 

 9    road is plastic packaging has a range of 13,000 

10    chemicals.  Many of them are not regulated by the 

11    federal government.  Many we don't know the 

12    health impacts.  They're used for color, they're 

13    used for shape, they're used for texture.  Many 

14    of them may be benign.  

15                 But we know through our public 

16    health advocates there are dozens of chemicals 

17    that have been tested and peer-reviewed to have 

18    adverse impacts on public health.  And those are 

19    the chemicals that we want to get to.

20                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

21    Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to 

22    yield? 

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

24    sponsor yield?

25                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.


                                                               4295

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 2    sponsor yields.

 3                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Yeah, my question 

 4    was specifically about the DEC's list of over a 

 5    thousand chemicals that could impact air quality.  

 6    Would all of those thousands of chemicals, would 

 7    those be eligible for a ban under this 

 8    legislation if DEC determines such?  

 9                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

10    Mr. President.  It depends.  Like we're not -- 

11    this bill does not scoop in the thousand bills 

12    that DEC may be talking about.  Right now we've 

13    identified 12 chemicals.  This bill has 

14    identified 12 chemicals to be removed from 

15    packaging.  

16                 If one or more of those 12 happen to 

17    be on that list, so be it.  But that is not the 

18    list -- the list of the 12 chemicals were derived 

19    from public health experts based on peer-reviewed 

20    science as to adverse health impacts to humans.

21                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Thank you.  

22                 Mr. President, I'll go on the bill.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

24    Walczyk on the bill.

25                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   So as was stated 


                                                               4296

 1    earlier, York University says that this bill will 

 2    increase consumer costs by $3800 in a five-year 

 3    period per household in New York.  

 4                 But this bill, which claims to be 

 5    friendly to the environment, won't just cost 

 6    New York families, it will result in producers of 

 7    products leaving New York State, taking jobs with 

 8    them.  It will result in fewer products online.  

 9    And New York consumers can look forward to the 

10    "not for Sale in New York" when they shop online 

11    for many products.  

12                 That will result in fewer options on 

13    shelves, which means that the products that are 

14    on the shelves will increase in cost.  It will 

15    result in more food waste, as was displayed 

16    earlier.  It will result in market uncertainty.  

17    And I'm not even convinced, after this lengthy 

18    debate, that it will ultimately be better for the 

19    environment in New York.  

20                 In fact, it's very likely that in at 

21    final tally we will have once again shocked the 

22    world that we've passed a very thick and 

23    complicated bill giving a bunch of authority to 

24    the Executive and a bunch of bureaucrats in DEC, 

25    and the only thing that's resulted is we've made 


                                                               4297

 1    it less affordable to live in the State of 

 2    New York, more inconvenient to live here, and we 

 3    will be a shining example for other states of 

 4    what not to do in their state legislature.

 5                 I'll be voting no, and I encourage 

 6    my colleagues to do the same.

 7                 Thank you.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

 9    you, Senator.

10                 Senator Murray -- oh.  Senator 

11    Murray, why do you rise?

12                 SENATOR MURRAY:   Thank you, 

13    Mr. President.

14                 I'd like to go on the bill, please.  

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

16    Murray on the bill.

17                 SENATOR MURRAY:   The sponsor has 

18    been answering a lot of questions, so I'm giving 

19    you a little break now.

20                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Thank you.

21                 SENATOR MURRAY:   In listening to 

22    the debate, I've heard -- and I want to talk 

23    about -- Senator Stec made a comment earlier 

24    about how many memos we've seen attached to this 

25    bill.  I've never seen so many memos of either 


                                                               4298

 1    support or opposition to one bill.  

 2                 I had to take all of them out of my 

 3    binder here.  It got too heavy.  I mean, they're 

 4    just everywhere.  

 5                 And in listening to this debate, it 

 6    was clear why.  Because each one is saying 

 7    something different.  And they seem to contradict 

 8    each other.  So I'll hear somebody quote one 

 9    study, and then another one says, Well, I heard a 

10    study that said this, and that's not really that, 

11    and this, that and the other.  

12                 One of them's going to save 

13    companies money and save governments money and 

14    save taxpayers money, and the other one's going 

15    to drive up costs.  

16                 So I figured, you know what, let's 

17    just listen and try to clear through all of the 

18    muck here.  

19                 So I looked at -- earlier this year 

20    President Trump, when he got into office, said 

21    I'm going to address the unfair trade practices.  

22    And his way he was going to do it was through 

23    raising tariffs, kind of calling the bluff of 

24    some of the other nations.  And, yeah, increase 

25    the tariffs.  


                                                               4299

 1                 And immediately you heard from the 

 2    other side:  This is going to cost Americans so 

 3    much money, and food will be -- we can't afford 

 4    to eat anymore.  We're all going to die, all the 

 5    food prices are going to go so high.  Because the 

 6    theory was you raise the tariffs, it increases 

 7    the cost on the companies and those importing or 

 8    exporting, and in doing so they'll pass those 

 9    increased costs on to, you got it, the consumers.  

10                 But somehow that theory disappears 

11    when we talk about this bill.  Of course if we're 

12    changing the packaging practices and forcing 

13    companies to change how they're doing it, it's 

14    going to drive up costs.  There's no doubt.  

15    There's no question.  When that happens, what do 

16    the companies do?  They pass it along to the 

17    consumers.  So yes, it will cost more.  It's that 

18    simple.  

19                 So we've heard all the studies, all 

20    the experts that -- so I'll use one of my own 

21    here, Dr. Calvin Lakhan from York University.  

22    He's an expert in environmental studies and urban 

23    change, and also an economist, has a degree in 

24    economics.  And he says the EPR compliance fees 

25    can raise consumer prices on staple goods by 2 to 


                                                               4300

 1    6 percent, and that this cost burden falls 

 2    disproportionately on lower-income households who 

 3    spend a higher percentage of household income on 

 4    packaged food compared to higher-income 

 5    households.  

 6                 Now, all during the budget process 

 7    we heard the Governor and everyone running around 

 8    using the word "affordability."  Everything was 

 9    about "affordability."  In fact, a lot of us in 

10    the chamber, myself included, pushed really hard 

11    for the universal free meals in schools for kids.  

12    And the Governor, in her release, touted that, 

13    saying free school meals are estimated to save 

14    families $165 per child in grocery spending each 

15    month.  

16                 But now we go to this economist, and 

17    if this bill goes through and we increase costs, 

18    well, that savings seems to be out the window 

19    now.  And it's especially going to hurt those who 

20    struggle to feed their families in the first 

21    place.  

22                 In fact, I saw another interesting 

23    statistic.  We talk about the SNAP benefits.  The 

24    average household of four that is a recipient of 

25    SNAP benefits -- again, these are the families 


                                                               4301

 1    struggling to feed their families -- they receive 

 2    between 900 and $1,000 a month in SNAP benefits.  

 3    And what are we going to do?  We're going to make 

 4    the costs even higher on them to reduce what they 

 5    get from their benefits.

 6                 So again, as we talk about 

 7    affordability, we're taking some steps in the 

 8    budget but now we're going to take a step 

 9    backwards here and we're going to hit families in 

10    the pocketbook again.

11                 So again, trying to go through all 

12    of what I've listened to during this debate, it's 

13    become pretty clear we're not there yet.  We're 

14    just not there yet.  

15                 I commend the sponsor.  Man, he has 

16    worked his tail off on this.  And as he said, he 

17    introduced this bill a couple of years ago and 

18    since then has made dozens of changes and 

19    amendments.  Why?  Because it's not simple.  This 

20    is complicated.  I'm sitting here listening to 

21    packaging of little ketchup packets and the foil 

22    to cover the yogurt containers and Lunchables and 

23    this, that and the other.  And every time there 

24    were other terms:  Off-ramps, waivers.  I heard, 

25    well, in 12 years -- we sent men to the moon in 


                                                               4302

 1    10 years, we can definitely fix this in 12 years.  

 2    But then in the next breath, we've heard that 

 3    it's not technologically feasible yet.  

 4                 So which is it?  And that's my 

 5    point.  We're not there yet.  I mean, even in 

 6    this debate I heard contradictions left and 

 7    right.  I heard the sponsor invite one member to 

 8    introduce another bill to cover things that 

 9    weren't covered.  Well, guess what?  There has 

10    been another bill introduced.  The Affordable 

11    Waste Reduction Act has been introduced.  I 

12    actually think I prefer that bill.

13                 My point is, we're going to rush 

14    into this, we're going to pass this bill and, as 

15    Senator Walczyk said, we're going to have with us 

16    this big thick bill -- that does what?  Causes 

17    more confusion?  Causes prices to go up?  That's 

18    not what we want.  

19                 If we're really trying to solve the 

20    problem, we need more work.  We need to keep 

21    rolling up our sleeves.  I'll work with you any 

22    way I can.  We should look at both of the bills, 

23    the one that we're discussing here and the 

24    Affordable Waste Reduction Act, see what works 

25    here and there.  But there is more work to be 


                                                               4303

 1    done.  We are not there yet.  

 2                 And that's why tonight I will be 

 3    voting no on this bill.

 4                 Thank you, Mr. President.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

 6    you, Senator Murray.

 7                 Senator Rhoads, why do you rise? 

 8                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you, 

 9    Mr. President.  

10                 Will Senator Harckham be kind enough 

11    to yield to what I promise will be only a few 

12    questions?  

13                 (Laughter.)

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

15    sponsor yield?

16                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Thank you, 

17    Senator Rhoads.  

18                 Through you, Mr. President, I do.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

20    sponsor yields.

21                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Through you, 

22    Mr. President.  Obviously we considered earlier 

23    today in our chamber the nomination of the new 

24    secretary who will run the Department of 

25    Environmental Conservation, Amanda Lefton.  I 


                                                               4304

 1    assume that you voted yes on that nomination?

 2                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   I passed her 

 3    through my committee.  Yes, I did, sir.

 4                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Okay.  And will 

 5    the sponsor continue to yield?

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 7    sponsor yield?

 8                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 9    Mr. President, yes.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

11    sponsor yields.  

12                 SENATOR RHOADS:   And she has a vast 

13    amount of experience -- senior policy director 

14    for Energy and Climate, with Foley Hoag LLP, 

15    deputy policy director, climate mitigation lead 

16    for the Nature Conservancy, worked in the Biden 

17    administration, in the Bureau of Ocean Energy 

18    Management, senior vice president for RWE 

19    offshore.  Clearly a qualified candidate.

20                 Though in your legislation, in the 

21    D print of the legislation, the Department of 

22    Environmental Conservation, a department full of 

23    experts in the area of climate, in the area of 

24    sustainability, it removed the ability of the DEC 

25    to actually extend deadlines, is that not 


                                                               4305

 1    correct?

 2                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 3    Mr. President, no.  Through the waiver process 

 4    DEC can.  An application can come from the 

 5    Producer Responsibility Organization after they 

 6    put together the plan based on their feasibility 

 7    study, then go to DEC, as I mentioned earlier, 

 8    and say, You know what, we need two more years as 

 9    a PRO to get this done.  Individual companies, as 

10    we discussed before, if they have an issue with 

11    technological feasibility, they can apply to DEC 

12    for a waiver as well.  

13                 What we took away from DEC was in 

14    the original construct of the bill, this is the 

15    PRO structure that we had, that was run primarily 

16    by industry and overseen by the DEC.  So in a 

17    later version of the bill, our colleagues in the 

18    Assembly wanted to give DEC more robust control.  

19    And so we changed the bill so that DEC would have 

20    a much, much, much more active role in the 

21    Producer Responsibility Organization.  

22                 The issue was DEC came to us and 

23    said, If you want us to do this, we're going to 

24    have to hire scores of people to manage this.  

25    We're just not set up to do this.  


                                                               4306

 1                 So we went back to the original 

 2    structure.  So DEC, Mr. President, does have that 

 3    ability to extend waivers, but they also have, 

 4    through the inspector general, the ability of 

 5    enforcement.

 6                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Will the sponsor 

 7    continue to yield.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 9    sponsor yield?

10                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

11    Mr. President, a quick correction.  

12                 You are correct on the reductions, 

13    right?  Correct on reductions.  The waiver can be 

14    on recycling.

15                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you, 

16    Senator Harckham.  I appreciate that 

17    clarification.  

18                 Will the sponsor continue to yield?  

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

20    sponsor yield?

21                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

23    sponsor yields.

24                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you, 

25    Senator Harckham.  Through you, Mr. President.  


                                                               4307

 1                 The Department of Environmental 

 2    Conservation can grant waivers on a case-by-case 

 3    basis, correct?  

 4                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 5    Mr. President, correct.

 6                 SENATOR RHOADS:   But -- if the 

 7    sponsor will continue to yield.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 9    sponsor yield?

10                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

12    sponsor yields.

13                 SENATOR RHOADS:   But they don't 

14    actually have the ability to extend the deadlines 

15    on their own.  They can grant waivers on a 

16    case-by-case basis, they can grant a waiver to 

17    the PRO.  Right?

18                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   On rates and 

19    dates they can.

20                 SENATOR RHOADS:   But the 12-year 

21    implementation deadline, if it turns out not to 

22    be feasible, the Department of Environmental 

23    Conservation in and of itself doesn't have the 

24    ability to extend an overall deadline.

25                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   (Conferring.)  


                                                               4308

 1    So it's on the reductions that DEC can't grant 

 2    the waiver.  

 3                 The recycling part, they can grant a 

 4    waiver.  They can grant a waiver on the lookback, 

 5    12-year lookback period.  

 6                 And where federal law -- as we were 

 7    talking about in the food safety discussion, 

 8    where food -- federal food safety would preempt 

 9    this law.

10                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you, 

11    Senator Harckham.  Will the sponsor continue to 

12    yield?

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

14    sponsor yield?

15                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

17    sponsor yields.

18                 SENATOR RHOADS:   This chamber 

19    provides the Department of Environmental 

20    Conservation all the time the discretion to be 

21    able to implement a bill.  The policymakers -- us 

22    in this chamber -- may not necessarily have the 

23    expertise, and I would guarantee don't have the 

24    expertise that the Department of Environmental 

25    Conservation has.  


                                                               4309

 1                 If the goals are not possible, why 

 2    doesn't the DEC, in your legislation, have the 

 3    ability to adjust the goals or to adjust the 

 4    timelines?

 5                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 6    Mr. President.  They do have a fair amount of 

 7    flexibility.  We think -- and we've added an 

 8    extra two years.  We think 12 years, really on 

 9    top of another two years, right, because of the 

10    study -- that's 14 and a half years.  

11                 As we said earlier, when we put our 

12    mind to it, we put a person on the moon.  And 

13    granted, this was back in the early '60s.  Think 

14    about where science and technology was in the 

15    early '60s.  We have 14 and a half years to 

16    technologically come up with the solutions that 

17    many companies are close to having anyhow.

18                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you, 

19    Senator Harckham.  

20                 Will the sponsor continue to yield.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

22    sponsor yield?

23                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   As long as I'm 

24    standing.  

25                 (Laughter.)


                                                               4310

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 2    sponsor yields.

 3                 SENATOR RHOADS:   I want to switch 

 4    to the issue of availability.  In many areas of 

 5    the state people shop for groceries once a week 

 6    because of how far away the grocery store is.  

 7    The packaging that we're potentially banning in 

 8    this bill -- or requiring it to be substantially 

 9    changed, if it's possible -- increases the shelf 

10    life for food, and is what allows a family the 

11    convenience to be able to shop only once a week.  

12                 Are you expecting families to have 

13    to shop more frequently in order to keep the food 

14    in their refrigerators fresh?

15                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

16    Mr. President, no.  This would not impact that.  

17    Again, as we've said, nothing in this bill 

18    overrides federal food safety.  

19                 But let's go back to the ketchup 

20    discussion.  Subsequent to our conversation 

21    before, somebody reported to me that Kraft Heinz 

22    has developed and announced a fully recyclable 

23    ketchup bottle for the European market.  So if 

24    they have a fully recyclable ketchup bottle in 

25    the European market, why is it such a hardship to 


                                                               4311

 1    bring that here?  They have it.  This company is 

 2    doing it.

 3                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Will the sponsor 

 4    continue to yield.  

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 6    sponsor yield? 

 7                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 9    sponsor yields.

10                 SENATOR RHOADS:   This bill applies 

11    to more than ketchup bottles, doesn't it?

12                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

13    Mr. President.  Yes, it does.

14                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Okay.  Oh, 

15    incidentally -- briefly on the bill.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

17    Rhoads on the bill.

18                 SENATOR RHOADS:   The Apollo 

19    program, which included the moon landing, cost 

20    approximately $25.8 billion in 1960 to 1973 

21    dollars, according to the Planetary Society.  

22    Adjusted for inflation, that translates today to 

23    about $318 billion.  So while things are 

24    possible, they may certainly come with an 

25    extraordinary cost.


                                                               4312

 1                 Will the sponsor continue to yield.  

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 3    sponsor yield?

 4                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   I will, 

 5    Mr. President.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 7    sponsor yields.

 8                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Going back to the 

 9    questioning from Senator Stec, we spoke about 

10    whether there was a figure from either Canada or 

11    Minnesota as to the amount of money that was 

12    actually saved by municipalities as a result of 

13    this bill.  I know you didn't have an answer at 

14    the time and that we were going to struggle to 

15    find that answer.  I was just curious if we had 

16    it after almost two hours of debate.

17                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   One moment, 

18    Mr. President.

19                 Through you, Mr. President.  We have 

20    found one estimate for Ontario that the 

21    communities in Ontario are saving $150 million 

22    annually.  That's just an estimate.

23                 The other thing I would say, 

24    Mr. President, is we found another cost study.  

25    Oregon did a study on their program and, what was 


                                                               4313

 1    it, 56 -- (conferring).  

 2                 Excuse me.  Half a cent per item.  

 3    Half a cent per item was the cost that Oregon 

 4    found.

 5                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Will the sponsor 

 6    continue to yield to one additional question.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 8    sponsor yield?

 9                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes, absolutely.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

11    sponsor yields.

12                 SENATOR RHOADS:   And how much of 

13    that savings was actually passed along to 

14    consumers?  

15                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Of the 

16    150 million?  

17                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Or of another --

18                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   For Ontario?

19                 SENATOR RHOADS:   For Ontario or of 

20    the --

21                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

22    Mr. President.  Whatever money -- excuse me.  

23                 Mike?  Senator Gianaris, I'm sorry.  

24    I'm tired.

25                 (Laughter.)


                                                               4314

 1                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Whatever -- I 

 2    apologize, I do.  Whatever money a municipality 

 3    may save, we give them the flexibility to do what 

 4    they want.  

 5                 So for instance, your 

 6    municipality -- I'm just making this up -- one of 

 7    yours may want to give it back in tax relief.  

 8    Somebody else's district may say, you know what, 

 9    our kids are in crisis, we want to hire three 

10    social workers.  They may do that.  Another may 

11    say, you know what, we need to build a new police 

12    department, this will help offset some of the 

13    costs for that.  

14                 So the flexibility in what the 

15    municipalities do with their savings are up to 

16    the municipality.  It's not for me to tell them 

17    what they should do with their money.

18                 SENATOR RHOADS:   I appreciate that, 

19    Senator Harckham.  Thank you for answering my 

20    questions.  

21                 Since we're limited on time, I'll 

22    just go on the bill.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

24    Rhoads on the bill.

25                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you very 


                                                               4315

 1    much, Mr. President.  

 2                 In this chamber we speak about 

 3    affordability all the time, yet we do very little 

 4    with respect to affordability.  Senator Harckham 

 5    made the observation early on in this debate that 

 6    this bill is not designed to put cash back in 

 7    consumer pockets.  

 8                 But what we are seeing is that it 

 9    will be taking money out of the pockets of 

10    consumers on a regular basis.  We were referring 

11    to several studies, and Senator Murray actually 

12    referred to the Beyond Plastics study, which 

13    claimed there being savings.  

14                 But studies that are produced by 

15    actual economists, like the economist at York 

16    University, show that this is going to result in 

17    a 4.25 to 6.75 percent cost increase for the 

18    consumer, an average increase of $38 to $61 a 

19    month in the grocery bill of a family of four in 

20    New York State, translating to $456 to $732 a 

21    year.

22                 In an environment where the cost of 

23    groceries has already gone up by more than 

24    23 percent since COVID, this is putting an 

25    additional burden on families, particularly 


                                                               4316

 1    low-income families like our SNAP recipients, who 

 2    a family of four receives only $975 a month to 

 3    purchase groceries.  

 4                 You start adding costs of $38 to 

 5    $61 a month, that's the difference between 

 6    whether they're going to be able to afford to 

 7    purchase these products.  And these products are 

 8    ones that they have to buy.  It's not like you 

 9    can find a cheaper alternative.  

10                 You know, and you're going to have 

11    difficulty now, as a result of this legislation, 

12    buying things in the same condition that you see 

13    them today that families rely on on a daily 

14    basis -- fresh meat, hot dogs, bacon, sausage, 

15    cheese, shelf-stable items that are sold in 

16    flexible packaging like chips, pretzels, nuts, 

17    will all be substantially changed, if not 

18    blocked, as a result of this bill.

19                 This is another instance where the 

20    Legislature is setting a bold goal without having 

21    any idea how we are actually going to get there.  

22    And just like the CLCPA and our grid issues, just 

23    like the electric bus mandate, which we just had 

24    to delay, just like so many things that happen in 

25    this chamber, reality is going to slap us in the 


                                                               4317

 1    face after spending millions upon millions of 

 2    dollars to find out that we simply can't 

 3    accomplish the goal in the time that's provided.  

 4                 That's why I will be voting no, 

 5    Mr. President.  Thank you for your indulgence.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

 7    you, Senator Rhoads.  

 8                 Debate is now closed.

 9                 The Secretary will ring the bell.

10                 Read the last section.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.  This 

12    act shall take effect immediately.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

14    roll.

15                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

17    Mattera to explain his vote.

18                 SENATOR MATTERA:   Thank you, 

19    Mr. President.  

20                 And to Senator Harckham, you know, 

21    I'm listening to you and, you know, we did this 

22    last year.  And again, last year you talked about 

23    the great Local 812, the 3,000 Teamsters.  You 

24    pretty much said again that you know what, ah, 

25    they're a little local, they don't matter.  


                                                               4318

 1                 And you know what?  I'm appalled by 

 2    that again.  And you know what?  You're probably 

 3    going to get up and say something, but you know 

 4    what, all these hardworking men and women of 

 5    labor and their families care about their jobs.  

 6                 And so again, I'm appalled.  But 

 7    let's talk about this, Senator.  Legislative 

 8    Memorandum Amendment Request from Teamsters Joint 

 9    Council 16, Teamsters Joint Council 18, Teamster 

10    Joint council 46 -- together, 120,000 men and 

11    women.  

12                 "We appreciate the progressive 

13    approach which the sponsor has taken in resolving 

14    the concerns previously raised by us, and urge 

15    that the above matters be addressed as well.  

16                 "In conclusion, while the Teamsters 

17    share the common goal of packaging reduction with 

18    the sponsors, we cannot support legislation which 

19    could be described as threatening the employment 

20    of our members who deliver beverages to millions 

21    of New Yorkers.  We urge the sponsor to amend 

22    this legislation."

23                 So you know what, Senator?  You said 

24    that the New York State Conference of Teamsters 

25    did not -- they were neutral.  Well, guess what?  


                                                               4319

 1    They are not neutral.  They oppose this, and they 

 2    want an amendment.  

 3                 I vote no and I urge everybody to 

 4    vote no for this bill that is a disaster to all 

 5    New Yorkers.  It's going to cost everybody out of 

 6    their pockets, and we have over 100 oppositions 

 7    on this, memos.  

 8                 And I was wondering if our Senator 

 9    went and spoke to every single one of these 

10    hundred businesses, all these workers, to make 

11    sure that, you know what, they understand what's 

12    going on, that they're going to lose their jobs.  

13    Over a hundred that's right here.  

14                 So you know what?  Again, please, 

15    vote no.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

17    Mattera to be recorded in the negative.

18                 Can we have order in the house.

19                 Senator May to explain her vote.

20                 SENATOR MAY:   Thank you, 

21    Mr. President.  

22                 My City of Syracuse has an unwanted 

23    river running through it, a river of trash trucks 

24    ferrying solid waste from downstate to the 

25    largest landfill in New York at Seneca Meadows.  


                                                               4320

 1    That landfill is at capacity, and it either must 

 2    be expanded or shuttered.  

 3                 My constituents in the Finger Lakes 

 4    don't want their region to be known as the trash 

 5    capital of the state or a repository for a host 

 6    of contaminants.  My city and surrounding towns 

 7    don't want that river of trucks.  They don't want 

 8    to keep breathing the exhaust from those trucks 

 9    or keep paying to repair the roads.  We don't 

10    want to bear the cost of a throwaway culture.  

11                 For centuries, American producers 

12    and retailers have relied on a system where they 

13    sell their products and forget about them.  

14    Consumers use their products and throw them away.  

15    "Away" is something taxpayers pay for, in the 

16    form of hauling and disposal at landfills and 

17    incinerators.  

18                 This system of zero producer 

19    responsibility has led to them putting out into 

20    the world vast amounts of packaging, including 

21    all sorts of toxic chemicals and persistent 

22    materials like Styrofoam and PVC.  

23                 This bill is a sensible and 

24    carefully negotiated effort to enlist producers 

25    of materials in figuring out ahead of time what 


                                                               4321

 1    will happen to those materials so they don't just 

 2    become a burden on local governments, on our air 

 3    and water and soils, on our bodies and on our 

 4    posterity.  

 5                 I want to thank Senator Harckham for 

 6    his monumental work putting this bill together, 

 7    for his monumental debate skills, and for -- and 

 8    all of my colleagues who are supporting this for 

 9    making a difference for my community, for our 

10    local taxpayers, for our bodies, for our future.

11                 Thank you.  I vote aye.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

13    May to be recorded in the affirmative.

14                 Senator Harckham to close.

15                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Thank you very 

16    much, Mr. President.

17                 And I want to thank colleagues for 

18    staying so long, for your persistence.  I want to 

19    thank colleagues on the other side of the aisle 

20    for the tenor of the debate.  There are some 

21    things we obviously disagree on, but it was a 

22    high-level debate.  I want to thank you for that.

23                 I want to thank all the people who 

24    worked on this -- my staff, central staff, I want 

25    to thank the Majority Leader, who committed 


                                                               4322

 1    several significant resources to our effort on 

 2    this because she believed in this and gave us the 

 3    resources we needed to do the research.

 4                 I'll just say a couple of things.  

 5    You know, we had the debate last year.  A lot was 

 6    said then.  A lot was said now.  I just want to 

 7    say a couple of things.  

 8                 Number one, to a point that was just 

 9    made, I personally spoke to hundreds of 

10    businesses, hundreds of businesses.  And my staff 

11    spoke to hundreds more.  And we spoke to them on 

12    multiple occasions, which is why we have five 

13    drafts of the bill.  And in the last draft of the 

14    at bill we made 26 -- I used to say 25.  I saw 

15    the list; actually 26 major modifications, 

16    because we want to get a bill that's actionable.

17                 And the reason this bill is so vital 

18    is, as Rachel May, Senator May just mentioned, 

19    you know, our landfills are filling up, we're not 

20    recycling, we're burning plastic, it's leaching.  

21    But one of the things we didn't talk about as 

22    much in the debate last year as this year is in 

23    the last year there is alarming, alarming 

24    peer-reviewed health information about the human 

25    harm of microplastics and nanoplastics.  And we 


                                                               4323

 1    have seen products that the opposition used last 

 2    year to say this bill would be horrible to 

 3    disadvantaged kids taken off the market, 

 4    literally taken off the market because of excess 

 5    levels of chemicals that we would ban here.

 6                 So yes, this is a waste bill.  Yes, 

 7    this is a recycling bill.  This is a human health 

 8    bill.  This is a human health bill.  And 

 9    microplastics and nanoplastics are now the threat 

10    of our time.  

11                 And so the one thing I want to say 

12    to close is I think our founding fathers would be 

13    proud of this debate.  I think they would be 

14    appalled by the amount of money that has come 

15    from special interests to oppose this bill.  In 

16    my seven years here I have never seen anything 

17    like it.  Over $2 million spent to oppose this 

18    bill.  This is Washington-style money.  And this 

19    is our public health.  This is our kids.  We 

20    should be appalled.  

21                 You know, the same folks who brought 

22    us DDT and paraquat and Agent Orange and PFAS are 

23    now saying here in New York we can't protect our 

24    kids from the harmful impacts of chemicals.  

25    Let's just keep producing more single-use 


                                                               4324

 1    plastic, more single-use plastic.  Let's keep on 

 2    doing it just because we can.  

 3                 I say that's appalling.  And I'm so 

 4    proud of members of this chamber that today we're 

 5    going to stand up and say our kids' public health 

 6    is not for sale.  

 7                 I vote aye.

 8                 (Applause.)

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

10    Harckham to be recorded in the affirmative.

11                 Announce the results.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Those Senators 

13    voting in the negative on Calendar 1216 are 

14    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 

15    Chan, Cooney, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Lanza, 

16    Martinez, Mattera, Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara, 

17    Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, Rolison, C. Ryan, 

18    Scarcella-Spanton, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber 

19    and Weik.

20                 Absent from voting are 

21    Senators Parker, Ramos and Sutton.  

22                 Ayes, 33.  Nays, 25.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

24    is passed.

25                 Senator Gianaris, that completes the 


                                                               4325

 1    reading of the controversial calendar.

 2                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Is there any 

 3    further business at the desk?

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   There is 

 5    no further business at the desk.

 6                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   I move to 

 7    adjourn until tomorrow, Thursday, May 29th, at 

 8    11:00 a.m. 

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   On 

10    motion, the Senate stands adjourned until 

11    Thursday, May 29th, at 11:00 a.m.

12                 (Whereupon, at 8:25 p.m., the Senate 

13    adjourned.)

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