Regular Session - June 9, 2025

                                                                   4728

 1                NEW YORK STATE SENATE

 2                          

 3                          

 4               THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

 5                          

 6                          

 7                          

 8                          

 9                  ALBANY, NEW YORK

10                    June 9, 2025

11                      2:34 p.m.

12                          

13                          

14                   REGULAR SESSION

15  

16  

17  

18  SENATOR JAMAAL T. BAILEY, Acting President

19  ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary

20  

21  

22  

23  

24  

25  


                                                               4729

 1                P R O C E E D I N G S

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 3    Senate will come to order.

 4                 I ask everyone present to please 

 5    rise and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

 6                 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 

 7    the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   In the 

 9    absence of clergy, let us bow our heads in a 

10    moment of silent reflection or prayer.

11                 (Whereupon, the assemblage respected 

12    a moment of silence.)

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Reading 

14    of the Journal.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   In Senate, Sunday, 

16    June 8, 2025, the Senate met pursuant to 

17    adjournment.  The Journal of Saturday, June 7, 

18    2025, was read and approved.  On motion, the 

19    Senate adjourned.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Without 

21    objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

22                 Presentation of petitions.

23                 Messages from the Assembly.

24                 The Secretary will read.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Skoufis 


                                                               4730

 1    moves to discharge, from the Committee on 

 2    Consumer Protection, Assembly Bill Number 1096B 

 3    and substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 

 4    4433A, Third Reading Calendar 322.

 5                 Senator Lanza moves to discharge, 

 6    from the Committee on Environmental Conservation, 

 7    Assembly Bill Number 6195 and substitute it for 

 8    the identical Senate Bill 5616, Third Reading 

 9    Calendar 1054.

10                 Senator Palumbo moves to discharge, 

11    from the Committee on Local Government, 

12    Assembly Bill Number 6593 and substitute it for 

13    the identical Senate Bill 6159, Third Reading 

14    Calendar 1154.  

15                 Senator Bailey moves to discharge, 

16    from the Committee on Insurance, Assembly Bill 

17    Number 979A and substitute it for the identical 

18    Senate Bill 5048A, Third Reading Calendar 1448.

19                 Senator Bailey moves to discharge, 

20    from the Committee on Insurance, Assembly Bill 

21    Number 6595 and substitute it for the identical 

22    Senate Bill 7221, Third Reading Calendar 1451.   

23                 Senator Liu moves to discharge, from 

24    the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 6783 

25    and substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 


                                                               4731

 1    Number 4484, Third Reading Calendar 1530.

 2                 Senator C. Ryan moves to discharge, 

 3    from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill 

 4    Number 7377 and substitute it for the identical 

 5    Senate Bill 4815, Third Reading Calendar 1531.

 6                 Senator Myrie moves to discharge, 

 7    from the Committee on Elections, Assembly Bill 

 8    Number 1241A and substitute it for the identical 

 9    Senate Bill 7281, Third Reading Calendar 1544.

10                 Senator Martinez moves to discharge, 

11    from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill 

12    Number 7745 and substitute it for the identical 

13    Senate Bill 7420, Third Reading Calendar 1546. 

14                 Senator Harckham moves to discharge, 

15    from the Committee on Children and Families, 

16    Assembly Bill Number 5927 and substitute it for 

17    the identical Senate Bill 7533, Third Reading 

18    Calendar 1547.

19                 Senator Cleare moves to discharge, 

20    from the Committee on Aging, Assembly Bill 

21    Number 8113 and substitute it for the identical 

22    Senate Bill 7737, Third Reading Calendar 1551.

23                 Senator Harckham moves to discharge, 

24    from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill 

25    Number 8276 and substitute it for the identical 


                                                               4732

 1    Senate Bill 7852, Third Reading Calendar 1557.

 2                 Senator Webb moves to discharge, 

 3    from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill 

 4    Number 8210 and substitute it for the identical 

 5    Senate Bill 7912, Third Reading Calendar 1560.

 6                 Senator C. Ryan moves to discharge, 

 7    from the Committee on Environmental Conservation, 

 8    Assembly Bill Number 8597 and substitute it for 

 9    the identical Senate Bill 7976, Third Reading 

10    Calendar 1562.

11                 Senator Harckham moves to discharge, 

12    from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill 

13    Number 8275 and substitute it for the identical 

14    Senate Bill 8011, Third Reading Calendar 1563.

15                 Senator Kavanagh moves to discharge, 

16    from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill 

17    Number 8571 and substitute it for the identical 

18    Senate Bill 8177, Third Reading Calendar 1570.

19                 Senator Persaud moves to discharge, 

20    from the Committee on Social Services, 

21    Assembly Bill Number 8433 and substitute it for 

22    the identical Senate Bill Number 8179, 

23    Third Reading Calendar 1571.

24                 Senator Mayer moves to discharge, 

25    from the Committee on Education, Assembly Bill 


                                                               4733

 1    Number 7212 and substitute it for the identical 

 2    Senate Bill 8226, Third Reading Calendar 1576.

 3                 Senator Baskin moves to discharge, 

 4    from the Committee on Labor, Assembly Bill 

 5    Number 8153 and substitute it for the identical 

 6    Senate Bill 8230, Third Reading Calendar 1577.

 7                 Senator Ramos moves to discharge, 

 8    from the Committee on Labor, Assembly Bill 

 9    Number 7694 and substitute it for the identical 

10    Senate Bill 8231, Third Reading Calendar 1578.

11                 Senator Sepúlveda moves to 

12    discharge, from the Committee on Cities 1, 

13    Assembly Bill Number 8416 and substitute it for 

14    the identical Senate Bill Number 8245, Third 

15    Reading Calendar 1583. 

16                 Senator Stavisky moves to discharge, 

17    from the Committee on Higher Education, 

18    Assembly Bill Number 8478 and substitute it for 

19    the identical Senate Bill 8251, Third Reading 

20    Calendar 1584.

21                 Senator Harckham moves to discharge, 

22    from the Committee on Environmental Conservation, 

23    Assembly Bill Number 8596 and substitute it for 

24    the identical Senate Bill 8261, Third Reading 

25    Calendar 1586.


                                                               4734

 1                 Senator Martinez moves to discharge, 

 2    from the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill 

 3    Number 8568 and substitute it for the identical 

 4    Senate Bill 8297, Third Reading Calendar 1590.

 5                 Senator Cooney moves to discharge, 

 6    from the Committee on Consumer Protection, 

 7    Assembly Bill Number 804C and substitute it for 

 8    the identical Senate Bill 1104A, Third Reading 

 9    Calendar 316.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   So 

11    ordered.

12                 Messages from the Governor.

13                 Reports of standing committees.

14                 Reports of select committees.  

15                 Communications and reports from 

16    state officers.

17                 Motions and resolutions.

18                 Senator Gianaris.

19                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Good afternoon, 

20    Mr. President.

21                 On behalf of Senator May, I move to 

22    amend Senate Bill Number 4417A by striking out 

23    the amendments made and restoring it to its 

24    original previous print, 4417.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   So 


                                                               4735

 1    ordered.

 2                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Amendments are 

 3    also offered to the following Third Reading 

 4    Calendar bills:

 5                 By Senator Kavanagh, page 48, 

 6    Calendar 1331, Senate Print 4274B; 

 7                 Senator Hoylman-Sigal, page 46, 

 8    Calendar 1304, Senate Print 1325B; 

 9                 Senator Jackson, page 53, 

10    Calendar 1389, Senate Print 6698;

11                 Senator Skoufis, page 15, 

12    Calendar 630, Senate Print 409; 

13                 Senator Rivera, page 43, 

14    Calendar 1267, Senate Print 6375; 

15                 Senator Skoufis, page 40, 

16    Calendar 1229, Senate Print 14; 

17                 Senator Fernandez, page 42, 

18    Calendar 1249, Senate Print 1819; 

19                 Senator Gianaris, page 56, Calendar 

20    Number 1415, Senate Print 7494; 

21                 Senator Hoylman-Sigal, page 42, 

22    Calendar 1251, Senate Print 3385; 

23                 Senator Cleare, page 52, 

24    Calendar 1376, Senate Print 4691; 

25                 Senator Myrie, page 42, Calendar 


                                                               4736

 1    1247, Senate Print 399; 

 2                 Senator Cooney, page 23, 

 3    Calendar 907, Senate Print 7025; 

 4                 Senator Gianaris, page 5, 

 5    Calendar 203, Senate Print 363; 

 6                 Senator Skoufis, page 15, 

 7    Calendar 600, Senate Print 4576;

 8                 Senator Harckham, page 55, 

 9    Calendar 1410, Senate Print 4989; 

10                 Senator Brisport, page 39, 

11    Calendar 1207, Senate Print 7491; 

12                 Senator Kavanagh, page 53, Calendar 

13    1386, Senate Print 1239D; 

14                 Senator May, page 52, Calendar 1374, 

15    Senate Print 3492; 

16                 Senator Hinchey, page 24, 

17    Calendar 918, Senate Print 7202; 

18                 And Senator Skoufis, page 41, 

19    Calendar 1239, Senate Print 7699A.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

21    amendments are received, and the bills will 

22    retain their place on the Third Reading Calendar.

23                 Senator Gianaris.

24                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   I wish to call 

25    up the following bills, which were recalled from 


                                                               4737

 1    the Assembly and are now at the desk:

 2                 Senate Bill Numbers 372, 3393, 1100, 

 3    3799B, 3335, 73, 2618, and 4358.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 5    Secretary will read.

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 7    1221, Senate Print 4358, by Senator Bailey, an 

 8    act to amend the Education Law.

 9                 Calendar Number 442, Senate Print 

10    372, by Senator Gianaris, an act to amend the 

11    Labor Law.

12                 Calendar Number 356, Senate Print 

13    3393, by Senator Gounardes, an act to amend the 

14    Education Law.

15                 Calendar Number 650, Senate Print 

16    1100, by Senator May, an act to amend the 

17    Education Law.

18                 Calendar Number 350, Senate Print 

19    3799B, by Senator Comrie, an act to amend the 

20    Real Property Actions and Proceedings Law.

21                 Calendar Number 305, Senate Print 

22    3335, by Senator Cooney, an act to amend the 

23    Vehicle and Traffic Law.

24                 Calendar Number 392, Senate Print 

25    73, by Senator Kavanagh, an act to amend the 


                                                               4738

 1    Environmental Conservation Law.

 2                 And Calendar Number 333, 

 3    Senate Print 2618, by Senator Addabbo, an act to 

 4    amend the Racing, Parimutuel Wagering and 

 5    Breeding Law.

 6                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to 

 7    reconsider the vote by which those bills were 

 8    passed.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

10    roll on reconsideration.

11                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 50.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bills 

14    are restored to their place on the Third Reading 

15    Calendar.

16                 Senator Gianaris.  

17                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   I offer the 

18    following amendments.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

20    amendments are received.

21                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   At this time 

22    we're going to call an immediate meeting of the 

23    Rules Committee in Room 332 and stand at ease.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   There 

25    will be an immediate meeting of the 


                                                               4739

 1    Rules Committee in Room 332.

 2                 The Senate will stand at ease.

 3                 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease 

 4    at 2:41 p.m.)

 5                 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at 

 6    4:09 p.m.)

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 8    Senate will return to order.

 9                 Senator Gianaris.

10                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

11    let's begin by recognizing 

12    Senator Scarcella-Spanton for an introduction.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Can we 

14    have some order in the chamber prior to the 

15    introduction, please.  Thank you.

16                 Now that we're settled, 

17    Senator Scarcella-Spanton for the purposes of an 

18    introduction.

19                 SENATOR SCARCELLA-SPANTON:   Thank 

20    you.  

21                 And I am so excited to welcome our 

22    guests, TraNa Relief, who is here with us.  They 

23    actually have maybe 50 people with them.  So they 

24    do amazing work in the Brooklyn side of my 

25    district and also the Staten Island side of my 


                                                               4740

 1    district as well, with Ukrainian refugees.  

 2                 So I am so excited to have them here 

 3    with us today, to honor them and let them know 

 4    here on the Senate floor that we genuinely 

 5    appreciate the work that you do each and every 

 6    day.

 7                 Thank you so much.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   To our 

 9    guests, we welcome you on behalf of the Senate.  

10    We extend to you all of the privileges and 

11    courtesies of this house.  

12                 Please remain standing and be 

13    recognized.

14                 (Standing ovation.)

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

16    Gianaris.  

17                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

18    there's a report of the Finance Committee at the 

19    desk.  Let's take that up, please.  

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

21    Secretary will read.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Krueger, 

23    from the Committee on Finance, reports the 

24    following nominations:

25                 As chair of the Cannabis Control 


                                                               4741

 1    Board, Jessica C. Garcia;  

 2                 And also as director of the 

 3    Authorities Budget Office, Joshua C. Norkin.

 4                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   I move to accept 

 5    the report of the Finance Committee and ask that 

 6    you recognize Senator Krueger first to speak on 

 7    the nomination of Joshua Norkin.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   All those 

 9    in favor of accepting the report of the 

10    Finance Committee please signify by saying aye.

11                 (Response of "Aye.")

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Opposed, 

13    nay.

14                 (Response of "Nay.")

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

16    report of the Finance Committee is accepted.  

17                 Senator Krueger on the nominations.  

18                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you very 

19    much.  

20                 I rise to support the nomination of 

21    Josh C. Norkin to be the director of the 

22    Authorities Budget Office.  Some of us have known 

23    Josh in his current or I guess previous position 

24    for the Governor in the counsel's office and, 

25    even before that, know him from his work at the 


                                                               4742

 1    Legal Aid Society of New York.  

 2                 We think the Authorities Budget 

 3    Office is a critically important office.  After 

 4    all, Robert Moses came up with the idea of taking 

 5    all kinds of government functions off-budget and 

 6    making them independent authorities, and that 

 7    means we need to be extra careful in evaluating 

 8    and keeping track of what they're doing, and the 

 9    money that they're spending.  And so we are 

10    counting on Mr. Norkin to serve us well by doing 

11    the work that needs to be done.  

12                 The director of the Authorities 

13    Budget Office is technically independent of the 

14    Governor, so they don't even have to agree on 

15    everything.  And they have the authority to work 

16    with law enforcement and the Inspector General 

17    and the Comptroller and the Attorney General.  

18                 And frankly, as I think many of us 

19    know, if the people of the State of New York 

20    don't have confidence that they can trust our 

21    government agencies are doing what they're 

22    supposed to be doing, it just doesn't work.  So 

23    we are counting on Mr. Norkin to play that role.  

24                 And I see that he's here with his 

25    wife and two children today.  So welcome, all of 


                                                               4743

 1    you, for being here, and congratulations on your 

 2    new position.

 3                 Thank you.  

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 5    question is on the nomination of Joshua C. Norkin 

 6    to the Authorities Budget Office.  

 7                 Call the roll.

 8                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

10    the results.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to the 

12    nomination, voting in the negative are 

13    Senators Borrello, Gallivan, Griffo, Lanza, 

14    Martins, Mattera, Oberacker, Ortt, Palumbo, 

15    Rolison, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.

16                 Ayes, 40.  Nays, 15.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

18    nominee is confirmed.

19                 Congratulations, Mr. Norkin.

20                 (Standing ovation.)

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

22    Gianaris.

23                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Now let's take 

24    up the nomination of Jessica Garcia to the 

25    Cannabis Control Board, please.


                                                               4744

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 2    Krueger on the nomination of Jessica Garcia.

 3                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.

 4                 Jessica Garcia cannot be with us 

 5    today, but she went through the interview process 

 6    to move into the position of chair of the board 

 7    of the Cannabis Control Board.

 8                 Now, Ms. Garcia has already served 

 9    on the Cannabis Control Board up until now, but 

10    then there was an opening for chair, so the 

11    Governor nominated her to be chair.  

12                 She also went through an interview 

13    process, and I believe that the vast majority of 

14    the members who were asking her questions were 

15    confident in her abilities to take on this 

16    responsibility as the chair of the board.  She's 

17    even followed up with some of us with answers to 

18    additional questions that she couldn't answer 

19    during the interview.

20                 So I'm hoping that my colleagues 

21    will join me in confirming Jessica Garcia to be 

22    the chair of the New York State Cannabis Control 

23    Board.  Thank you.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

25    Senator Krueger.  


                                                               4745

 1                 The question is on the nomination of 

 2    Jessica C. Garcia to the Cannabis Control Board.

 3                 Call the roll.

 4                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Announce 

 6    the results.  

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to the 

 8    nomination, voting in the negative are 

 9    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 

10    Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Lanza, Martinez, 

11    Martins, Mattera, Oberacker, Ortt, Palumbo, 

12    Rhoads, Rolison, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber 

13    and Weik.

14                 Ayes, 38.  Nays, 20.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

16    nominee, Jessica C. Garcia, is confirmed to the 

17    Cannabis Control Board.  

18                 Congratulations.

19                 Senator Gianaris.

20                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

21    let's recognize Senator Cleare for an 

22    introduction, please.  

23                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator Cleare for 

24    an introduction.

25                 SENATOR CLEARE:   Thank you, 


                                                               4746

 1    Madam President.  

 2                 I thought we were going to do this 

 3    in a different order, but I'm really proud today.  

 4    This is Black Music Month that we are 

 5    celebrating, and we have some guests here today 

 6    that I would like to introduce.  They came up 

 7    here to play jazz for us, which is the Indigenous 

 8    American music.  

 9                 And so I'm going to ask Dr. Mujib 

10    Mannan, who is here on the floor, and his band 

11    with the New York Jazz Society, up there in the 

12    gallery, to please stand.  They have been playing 

13    and preserving this very important music form for 

14    decades now, and keeping it alive.   

15                 And we know jazz is at the heart of 

16    all the music that we enjoy today.  And we thank 

17    you for what you do and thank you for being here 

18    with us and your performances earlier.

19                 Thank you.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

21    Senator Cleare.

22                 To our guests who are here joining 

23    us on behalf of Black History Month and Black 

24    music, thank you for joining us.  We heard the 

25    music; it was fantastic.  


                                                               4747

 1                 Please stand and be recognized.

 2                 (Standing ovation.)

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 4    Gianaris.

 5                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Next up, 

 6    Madam President, is previously adopted 

 7    Resolution 933, by Senator Griffo.  Please read 

 8    its title and recognize Senator Griffo.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

10    Secretary will read.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Resolution 933, by 

12    Senator Griffo, commemorating the 

13    125th Anniversary of the publication of 

14    The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, and celebrating the 

15    enduring legacy of its author, L. Frank Baum.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

17    Griffo on the resolution.

18                 SENATOR GRIFFO:   Thank you, 

19    Madam Chairman.  

20                 And I want to welcome our guests 

21    here today.  Over 125 years ago, The Wonderful 

22    Wizard of Oz, written by the visionary author L. 

23    Frank Baum, was first published.  And today we 

24    celebrate that.  

25                 In fact, over the last weekend, 


                                                               4748

 1    there was a tremendous celebration in the Village 

 2    of Chittenango in Madison County, where thousands 

 3    of people came out to commemorate and to remember 

 4    this significant event in the history of our 

 5    country.  

 6                 This is a literary classic.  It's 

 7    spawned movies, Broadway musicals, all sorts of 

 8    creative works.  Widely recognized as one of the 

 9    first American fantasy novels to achieve 

10    immediate and lasting success upon its 

11    publication.  

12                 It introduced us to Dorothy, who 

13    joins us today in the chamber, as well as the 

14    Scarecrow, the Tin Man, the Cowardly Lion, 

15    Glinda the Good Witch, and the Wicked Witch of 

16    the West -- characters that continue to inspire 

17    generations through books, film, theater and 

18    creative works.  

19                 In fact, many times here in the 

20    Capitol we may think we're in Oz.  And when I 

21    look at and listen to the soundtrack and think of 

22    these characters, they may apply or reflect upon 

23    many who are assembled.

24                 (Laughter.)

25                 SENATOR GRIFFO:   It's captivated 


                                                               4749

 1    hearts and minds of readers of all ages:  

 2    Imaginative storytelling, vibrant characters, and 

 3    universal themes that have entertained 

 4    generations.  

 5                 And while many of us are familiar 

 6    with the Land of Oz, what many may not know is 

 7    that L. Frank Baum was born in Chittenango in 

 8    Madison County, an area that I represent and that 

 9    Senator May has also had the opportunity to 

10    represent in the past.  

11                 And the village proudly preserves 

12    and celebrates Baum's enduring legacy each and 

13    every year, and this past last weekend had an 

14    outstanding festival.  And it's one of the 

15    longest-running Wizard of Oz-themed celebrations 

16    across the globe.  

17                 So today we recognize the 

18    significant anniversary of its beloved book's 

19    publishing.  And I'm pleased to introduce with us 

20    today Marc Baum, who is the International 

21    L. Frank Baum and All Things Oz Historical 

22    Foundation head, as well as Monica Kinner, the 

23    foundation vice president; Mark Sample, the 

24    foundation secretary; and Allison Lehr, the 

25    manager of All Things Oz Museum in Chittenango.  


                                                               4750

 1                 I want to thank each and every one 

 2    of them for joining us today on this special 

 3    occasion and recognition.  I want to thank the 

 4    organization and the Chittenango community and 

 5    all those who work so hard to ensure that the 

 6    memory of L. Frank Baum and the wonderful world 

 7    that he created lives on for generations.  

 8                 It's an honor to speak on this 

 9    resolution to celebrate this literary classic 

10    which has had such a profound effect on 

11    generations and is an important part of the 

12    American culture enshrined in the Smithsonian.  

13                 So thank you all for being here, and 

14    congratulations on the celebration of 125 years 

15    of this publication and a celebration of 

16    New York's own L. Frank Baum.

17                 Thank you, Madam President.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

19    Senator Griffo.

20                 Senator May on the resolution.

21                 SENATOR MAY:   Thank you, 

22    Madam President.  

23                 I also want to add my voice to the 

24    celebration of 125 years of an amazing novel and 

25    to our guests who are here who have worked so 


                                                               4751

 1    hard to keep the memory of Frank Baum and the 

 2    whole World of Oz alive.

 3                 I do want to mention that L. Frank 

 4    Baum's mother-in-law, Matilda Joslyn Gage, lived 

 5    in Fayetteville, New York, and she was a 

 6    prominent suffragist and abolitionist.  She was 

 7    very closely involved with the Haudenosaunee 

 8    Nation, to the point where she became an honorary 

 9    member of the Onondaga Nation.

10                 She, many believe, was a model for 

11    his heroine Dorothy, who is one of the most 

12    courageous, resourceful and independent girls 

13    that you find in fiction to this day.  I know she 

14    was an inspiration for me and my daughter and for 

15    girls all around the world.  And I want to 

16    celebrate all of them and that whole concept of 

17    lifting up girls who can be independent, wise and 

18    resourceful like that.  

19                 So thank you for keeping her memory 

20    alive and Frank Baum's memory alive, and I vote 

21    aye.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

23    Senator May.

24                 To our guests who are here to 

25    celebrate 125 years and an incredible history and 


                                                               4752

 1    a great story of the Wizard of Oz, please stand 

 2    and be recognized.  We give you all the 

 3    privileges and courtesies of the house.

 4                 (Standing ovation.)

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 6    Gianaris.

 7                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

 8    I think I speak for all my colleagues when I 

 9    would like to ask Dorothy to click her heels 

10    three times and send us all home, if possible.

11                 (Reaction from members.)

12                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Next up, 

13    previously adopted Resolution 554, by 

14    Senator Bailey.  Please read that resolution's 

15    title and recognize Senator Webb first to speak 

16    on that resolution.  

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

18    Secretary will read.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Resolution 554, by 

20    Senator Bailey, memorializing Governor Kathy 

21    Hochul to proclaim June 2025 as Black Music Month 

22    in the State of New York.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

24    Webb on the resolution.

25                 SENATOR WEBB:   Thank you, 


                                                               4753

 1    Madam President.  

 2                 I rise proudly today in recognition 

 3    of Black Music Month here in the State of 

 4    New York.  

 5                 I want to thank our Senate Majority 

 6    Leader, Andrea Stewart-Cousins, for her support 

 7    of this important commemoration.  

 8                 Throughout our nation's history, 

 9    Black music has been the heartbeat of American 

10    culture.  From the soul-stirring power of 

11    spirituals sung in the face of slavery, to the 

12    jazz clubs of Harlem, the gospel choirs of the 

13    South, the hip-hop beats of the Bronx, and the 

14    rhythm and blues that echoes across the world, 

15    black music has told the story of struggle, 

16    resilience, joy and triumph.  

17                 And here in New York we have a 

18    special honor because we are the creative 

19    epicenter for Black music.  We are deeply 

20    connected to that story.  We are the home of the 

21    Harlem renaissance, the birthplace of hip-hop, 

22    the stage of Ella Fitzgerald, Count Basie, Nas, 

23    MC Lyte and so many others whose artistry shapes 

24    not just music but history.  Artists like Sly 

25    Stone, who we just learned today transitioned.  


                                                               4754

 1                 All of these artists continue, 

 2    through their talent, to make our lives enriched 

 3    and better.  

 4                 And as we reflect on this legacy, we 

 5    also lift up icons like Kurtis Blow, who's here 

 6    with us in our chamber today, a pioneer who 

 7    helped turn hip-hop into a cultural force with 

 8    global reach.  

 9                 Kurtis Blow, as the first rapper 

10    signed to a major label, helped to bring rap into 

11    the mainstream and opened doors for future 

12    generations.  His contributions have helped to 

13    shape the voice of urban America and continue to 

14    inspire artists today, including the work that he 

15    still does to this day as the founder of Hip Hip 

16    Alliance and the Hip Hop Church in Harlem.  

17                 And who in this chamber has not 

18    heard -- or can complete this sentence:  "These 

19    are the breaks."  And you all know the rest of 

20    the lyrics.  

21                 We also recognize the powerful role 

22    of Black media in uplifting music and culture, 

23    especially institutions like WBLS, which has long 

24    served as a trusted voice and cultural touchstone 

25    for our communities.  And I want to acknowledge 


                                                               4755

 1    Dr. Bob Lee and G. Keith Alexander, the voices of 

 2    New York, two legends of the airwaves, for using 

 3    their platforms to support emerging artists, 

 4    amplify Black voices, and preserve the legacy of 

 5    Black music in New York and beyond.

 6                 Madam President, Black music has 

 7    been more than entertainment.  It is protest.  It 

 8    is educational.  It's healing.  It's identity.  

 9    It's inspiration.

10                 It brings people together across 

11    race, class and background.  It's a universal 

12    language.  It gives voice to the voiceless.  And 

13    it reminds us that Black culture is American 

14    culture and it is embedded in our collective 

15    society.  

16                 And as we honor Black Music Month 

17    this June, I urge us not to only celebrate the 

18    rich musical legacy of the past, but to uplift 

19    and invest in the next generation of Black 

20    artists whose voices will define our future.

21                 Let us continue to make space for 

22    creativity, protect cultural institutions, and 

23    remember that Black art, Black stories and Black 

24    music must always have a place in our public 

25    square.


                                                               4756

 1                 I want to thank our planning 

 2    committee that made today possible:  Senator 

 3    Cleare, Senator Comrie and Senator Bailey, 

 4    Senators Persaud, Baskin, Bynoe, Brouk and 

 5    Persaud.  And of course our colleagues in the 

 6    Assembly, Assemblymembers Jackson and Walker and 

 7    our entire New York State Black Legislative 

 8    Task Force.

 9                 Madam President, I proudly vote aye.  

10    And I want to ensure that we extend all full 

11    courtesies of the floor to our special guests.  

12    And I encourage my colleagues to join us in 

13    celebrating and commemorating Black Music Month.  

14                 Thank you, Madam President.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

16    Senator Webb.

17                 Senator Cleare on the resolution.

18                 SENATOR CLEARE:   Thank you, 

19    Madam President.  

20                 I rise to speak in support of the 

21    Black Music Month resolution.  I thank 

22    Senator Bailey.  I thank Senator Webb and all of 

23    the committee members.  And I give my special 

24    thanks to the leader for allowing us to celebrate 

25    this very important moment.


                                                               4757

 1                 I represent Harlem.  I consider it 

 2    the epicenter of Black history, culture, thought, 

 3    art, scholarship and music.  A significant part 

 4    of the history of Black music is rooted in my 

 5    district, the quintessential venues of the 

 6    Harlem Renaissance such as the Alhambra Ballroom, 

 7    Cotton Club, Count Basie's Lounge, Lenox Lounge, 

 8    the Renaissance Ballroom, the Savoy, Monette's 

 9    Supper Club, Bill's Place, Minton's Playhouse, 

10    the Apollo Theater.  These are all venues that 

11    just allowed Black music to thrive and grow.

12                 Moreover, many of the finest 

13    musicians lived in, played in, worked in or 

14    frequented Harlem, including Louie Armstrong and 

15    Duke Ellington, Earl "Fatha" Hines, Cab Calloway, 

16    Thelonious Monk, Dizzy Gillespie, Count Basie, 

17    Jelly Roll Morton, Charlie Parker -- the list 

18    goes on.  Fats Waller, Ella Fitzgerald, 

19    Bessie Smith, Paul Robeson, Ethel Waters, and so 

20    many more.  Lena Horne.  Billie Holiday.  

21    Josephine Baker.  

22                 But through the generations, the 

23    torch of creativity has been passed and we are 

24    blessed to have one of our very own here today, 

25    as was mentioned here before, the one and only 


                                                               4758

 1    Kurtis Blow, one of the most important and 

 2    influential pioneers in rap history.  We're 

 3    honored to have him.  He told the story of a 

 4    generation.

 5                 In addition, I'm proud to honor two 

 6    icons in Black radio, because without Black radio 

 7    it would have been very difficult for many Black 

 8    artists to reach America.  Black media, 

 9    entertainment and journalism is blessed to have 

10    their voices, and they are the voices of our 

11    generations:  Dr. Bob Lee and G. Keith Alexander.

12                 And I've just got to pause for a 

13    moment.  You know, as I think about it, you know, 

14    Dr. Bob Lee, it was more than music.  He had the 

15    On-Time Program.  You wanted to listen to WBLS in 

16    the morning, but you just didn't want to listen, 

17    you wanted to be at your school on time because 

18    Dr. Bob Lee might be there, and you could get on 

19    the radio.  So we thank you for doing that for 

20    us.

21                 And then I shouted out our bands 

22    that played in the Well earlier, including the 

23    Tony Jefferson Quartet, who were here and had to 

24    leave.  They were here compliments of the 

25    National Jazz Museum in Harlem.  


                                                               4759

 1                 But for hundreds of years, 

 2    Black music has been the drumbeat and the 

 3    lifeblood of existence, resistance, freedom, 

 4    storytelling, creativity and history.  It has 

 5    been the backdrop of our struggles, our 

 6    victories, our joy, our tears, our praise and our 

 7    worship, our love, our frustrations, and of 

 8    course our movements.  It is the heartbeat of us 

 9    all.  Long may it live.

10                 Happy Black Music Month.  Thank you, 

11    and I proudly vote aye.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

13    Senator Cleare.

14                 Senator Baskin on the resolution.

15                 SENATOR BASKIN:   Thank you, 

16    Madam President.  

17                 I rise today in support of the 

18    resolution recognizing Black Music Month as a 

19    celebration here in our state's great Capitol.  

20    The incredible influence that Black music has 

21    had, it still endures to this day.  One month 

22    hardly seems enough to honor its roots and its 

23    legacy.  

24                 I'd like to honor my colleague 

25    Senator Lea Webb, who worked so very hard leading 


                                                               4760

 1    our committee, organizing and inviting our 

 2    esteemed guests to be here today.  I'd also like 

 3    to acknowledge our leader, who welcomed our 

 4    inaugural celebration in the Well today.  Good 

 5    job, colleagues.

 6                 It's befitting that we stand here 

 7    today, moments after the media, as my colleague 

 8    said, just announced that the musical icon Sly 

 9    Stone has gone on to be with the Lord.  We 

10    welcome these talented artists who sit here in 

11    our chambers today for their history, and we 

12    thank them for coming to Albany.  

13                 And we have to lift up and 

14    acknowledge the fact that this month reflects a 

15    time that traces back to a dark history.  Our 

16    African ancestors brought here in chains against 

17    their will also carried with them cultural 

18    influences that no oppressor could ever steal.  

19    Spirituals, expressive native dances, songs, 

20    music with lyrics reflecting their bondage and 

21    their servitude.

22                 Centuries later, that rich heritage 

23    continues to influence and evolve in genres like 

24    jazz, rhythm and blues, gospel, all rooted in 

25    Black music.  That influence remains strong in 


                                                               4761

 1    other genres such as new jack swing, neo soul, 

 2    beatboxing, all of it born out of the bellowing 

 3    beat of the African drum.

 4                 Who can name this lyric:  "I am the 

 5    worst thing since Elvis Presley/To do Black music 

 6    so selfishly/And use it to get myself wealthy."  

 7    The hip-hop heads in the chambers today know that 

 8    that's a lyric from Eminem, who was a white 

 9    rapper.  But through this lyric he paid great 

10    homage to Black music.  

11                 It is true, Eminem's remarks about 

12    Black music have made a lot of people indeed 

13    wealthy.  And his reference to Elvis recalls the 

14    tragic end of Big Mama Thornton, an example of 

15    systemic hijacking of Black music artists and 

16    their creative properties that have been robbed 

17    over generations.  

18                 Thornton was a Black woman who was 

19    known for her recording artist's work.  She wrote 

20    and recorded two of the biggest rock and roll 

21    hits of the 1950s and '60s. Big Mama Thornton, 

22    she recorded "Hound Dog," which was one of 

23    Elvis Presley's biggest hits.  She wrote 

24    Janis Joplin's biggest hit of the 1960s, "Ball 

25    and Chain."  


                                                               4762

 1                 Now, had this Black woman been given 

 2    the courtesy of rightfully earned writer's 

 3    credits and royalties, perhaps she would have 

 4    been spared the indignity of dying penniless and 

 5    being buried in a shared pauper's grave.  

 6                 These injustices cannot be ignored 

 7    as we celebrate Black Music Month, 

 8    Madam President.  We have to acknowledge the 

 9    totality of the Black music heritage.  Just as we 

10    brought an immense joy, as a people, through our 

11    music to this country, the industry has produced 

12    countless tragedies that cannot be ignored.  So 

13    many Black artists have been robbed of their 

14    musical rights.  

15                 But then came Berry Gordy, a 

16    visionary and a pioneer, who founded Motown 

17    Records after he borrowed $800 to launch his 

18    business enterprises from his family.  He 

19    believed in hiring the best people, both Black 

20    and white.  While he became immensely wealthy, he 

21    didn't forget his roots, fighting racism through 

22    music and charitable acts.  

23                 Today it is the power of people like 

24    Mr. Gordy -- people like Sly Stone, people like 

25    Big Mama Thornton, who we remember and lift up.  


                                                               4763

 1                 In closing, Madam President, I want 

 2    to lift up Buffalo, New York, the district that I 

 3    represent, and the contributions that my great 

 4    city has given to Black music:  Musician and 

 5    producer Rick James, who rose from the east side 

 6    of Buffalo, overcoming hardships that plagued so 

 7    many.  His music, a mix of rhythm, rock and 

 8    attitude, still resonates with us today.

 9                 I want to lift up Buffalo's Colored 

10    Musicians Club, which is also now a jazz museum.  

11    It was founded 91 years ago.  This club 

12    continuously is being operated as an all-Black 

13    music venue here in the United States.  And back 

14    when it first started, its members were from 

15    Buffalo Local 533, the American Federation of 

16    musicians, which was an all-Black musicians 

17    union.  And they had to be separated because of 

18    the segregation laws at the time.

19                 And finally, I want to lift up 

20    Sheila Brown, who is the CEO of Vision Multimedia 

21    and owner of WUFO radio station in Buffalo, 

22    New York.  WUFO is a pillar in the Black 

23    community.  And Sheila showcased her music 

24    talents, current events and all of her hard work 

25    starting out as a salesperson at an entry level 


                                                               4764

 1    in 1986.  She moved up to sales manager and she 

 2    is now the owner of Buffalo's oldest Black radio 

 3    station, becoming the first African-American 

 4    female radio owner in our city.

 5                 I'm so grateful again to my 

 6    colleagues and everybody who worked on our 

 7    committee, Madam President, to make today so 

 8    special.  Thank you to all of our special guests 

 9    who have contributed so much to the history of 

10    Black music in the great State of New York, and 

11    may God continue to bless your gifts and 

12    artistry.

13                 Thank you, Madam President.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

15    Senator Baskin.  

16                 Senator Comrie on the resolution.

17                 SENATOR COMRIE:   Thank you, 

18    Madam President.  I rise to proudly support the 

19    Black Music Month resolution.  

20                 I'm just very proud today.  I'm 

21    proud of our colleagues that brought the level of 

22    this to a new level to create an opportunity to 

23    honor people.  You know, when I first started, 

24    one of the things that I hate doing -- hate 

25    hearing when I first started is that we've done 


                                                               4765

 1    this before.  Or, you know, we did this before.  

 2    Or you don't have to do something that we've done 

 3    already.  

 4                 And so I've always made it a point 

 5    to never say that to new colleagues, to new 

 6    people that are coming up, to people that are 

 7    trying to do things.  

 8                 So I'm very proud of our colleagues 

 9    Senator Webb, Senator Baskin, and all of the 

10    folks that made today a really special day, where 

11    we had the first opportunity to honor some real 

12    icons.  Kurtis Blow and Dr. Bob Lee and G. Keith 

13    Alexander are people that have influenced so many 

14    of us over time through their music, through 

15    their creativity, but also through their grace 

16    and style and class, and their dignity.  They've 

17    really truly changed the landscape in many 

18    different ways.  

19                 I've had many opportunities to be 

20    with Dr. Bob Lee, whether it's through his 

21    Make the Grade Foundation annual events that he 

22    has, through the many times that he's in the 

23    community lifting up kids or doing special pieces 

24    on opportunities to encourage people to come out 

25    to vote or to do different things, to be aware.  


                                                               4766

 1                 Back when we had the issues with the 

 2    pandemic, he  was all over the place trying to 

 3    get people to understand what they had to do.  

 4                 Dr. Bob Lee has always been on the 

 5    ground with a positive message that has been able 

 6    to influence people and change things.

 7                 They gave me a lot to say about 

 8    today, but I'm not going to say all of it, other 

 9    than, you know, Queens originated all music.  I 

10    just want you all to know that.  

11                 (Laughter.)

12                 SENATOR COMRIE:   People have it 

13    confused about where music was originated from, 

14    and they claim hip-hop was originated here and 

15    this was originated there.  I've got 

16    Senator Bailey going to respond now for -- 

17                 (Laughter.)

18                 SENATOR COMRIE:   Today's just a 

19    happy day.  I'm just saying I want to say I'm 

20    very proud of my colleagues, but it's a long day, 

21    so I'm not going to say everything, other than to 

22    say I want to bow to my icons.  

23                 Thank you, gentlemen, for being here 

24    today.  Thank you all for starting a wonderful 

25    tradition.


                                                               4767

 1                 Thank you, Madam President.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

 3    Senator Comrie.

 4                 Senator Sanders on the resolution.

 5                 SENATOR SANDERS:   Thank you, 

 6    Madam President.

 7                 So my colleague before me spoke so 

 8    well about the origin of the music, so I won't 

 9    speak to that.  I will merely point out that I 

10    come from Southeast Queens, which is part of 

11    Q-York City, and I am here to speak of the 

12    American classical music.  

13                 American classical music, which we 

14    also know as jazz, is -- was a creation in 

15    America, something that we can all take pride in, 

16    one of the few musics that were created here, not 

17    brought from other -- well, brought-ish from 

18    other places.  

19                 You've heard of five minutes of 

20    funk, let me give you two minutes of facts.  When 

21    we speak of rap music, the word "rap music" 

22    really is the -- we're trying to figure out where 

23    it comes from.  Most people are saying that it 

24    came from H. Rap Brown, who was known for his 

25    amazing ability to project, to speak.  


                                                               4768

 1                 But if you really want to understand 

 2    rap music and other musics, you're going to have 

 3    to look at the jazz poets.  You're going to have 

 4    to look at Gil Scott-Heron.  You're going to have 

 5    to look at Kurtis Blow.  You're going to have to 

 6    look all of these very worthy people.  

 7                 But when we speak of those things, 

 8    we heard this music in many different places on 

 9    the streets.  But when you started hearing it on 

10    the air, you heard from our first internet.  We 

11    had internet way before it was created, way 

12    before.  We just didn't call it the internet.  We 

13    called it WBLS.  

14                 We understood, we all tuned in.  It 

15    was easier to understand it and to tune in than 

16    it is to do it with this new internet.  

17                 And there we heard some of the 

18    greatest voices out.  We heard of G. Keith 

19    Alexander -- I mean, people who could project -- 

20    who's in the audience right now.  We heard of 

21    Dr. Bob Lee.  And of course the captain of that 

22    show was Frankie "Hollywood" Crocker, the chief 

23    rocker.  And -- well, that's a history in itself.

24                 But let me close by saying that this 

25    is an -- we knew that this day would come.  And I 


                                                               4769

 1    want to thank Senators Webb, Baskin and all of 

 2    those who put such a great thing together.  

 3    You've done the music well.

 4                 But most of this -- much of this 

 5    music came from other places.  And today is a 

 6    bittersweet day, because we have lost Sly Stone.  

 7    We have -- what a foundational part of music.  

 8    And I guess the best thing that I could do is to 

 9    thank you all and -- but to thank Sly Stone and 

10    say thank you for letting me be myself again.

11                 (Appreciative reaction from floor.)

12                 SENATOR SANDERS:   Thank you.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

14    Senator Sanders.

15                 Senator Bailey to close.

16                 SENATOR BAILEY:   Thank you, 

17    Madam President.  

18                 On a celebratory day, my brothers 

19    from Queens have decided to commit the ultimate 

20    treason --

21                 (Laughter.)

22                 SENATOR BAILEY:   -- in speaking 

23    about the origins of hip-hop.  So they speak.  

24    But we know what the origins of hip-hop were.  

25    They were 1520 Sedgwick Avenue, right in the 


                                                               4770

 1    heart of Senator Serrano's district, where the 

 2    one and only hip-hop museum is going to be built.  

 3                 There will not be a hip-hop museum 

 4    in Queens.  There will not be a hip-hop museum 

 5    anywhere else.  There will be a hip-hop museum in 

 6    the birthplace of hip-hop, which is the 

 7    boogie-down Bronx.  Because if it wasn't for the 

 8    Bronx, this rap thing probably never would be 

 9    going on.  "So tell me where you from, uptown 

10    baby, uptown baby."

11                 (Laughter.)

12                 SENATOR BAILEY:   But it's bigger 

13    than rap.  It's bigger than rap.  And I just want 

14    to make sure that -- on a serious note, I'm going 

15    to talk about sampling music.  And my brother 

16    Leroy spoke about it earlier, how he did the 

17    Black music reso first and then I did it 

18    afterwards.  And then, to quote Jay-Z, you know, 

19    we made it a hot line, but Lea, you made it a 

20    hot song.  Senator Webb, you have taken a 

21    resolution and made it into a day of 

22    commemoration so that our legends can properly be 

23    recognized.  

24                 And so to all of the committee 

25    members, we thank you.  But a special shout-out 


                                                               4771

 1    to you, Lea, for doing that.  Because it's really 

 2    important that we recognize who we have in the 

 3    chamber.  

 4                 I don't know if you know exactly 

 5    what Kurtis Blow has done for hip-hop.  It wasn't 

 6    large-scale.  He was the first rapper to get 

 7    signed to a major record deal, but he was the 

 8    first rapper to go gold, the first rapper to have 

 9    a music video.  Right?  And all of these things 

10    were the precursors to us being able to see 

11    hip-hop going global, to a multi-billion-dollar 

12    industry, that started with someone like Kurtis 

13    Blow talking about these are the breaks.  Or 

14    basketball is his favorite sport, he likes the 

15    way they dribble up and down the court.  Just 

16    like he's like the king of the microphone, so is 

17    Dr. J and Moses Malone.  You don't want no more.  

18                 (Laughter.)

19                 SENATOR BAILEY:   But it's so 

20    important to have an artist like Kurtis Blow, a 

21    trailblazer, and someone who is living in my 

22    district.  It's my community, it's my district, 

23    and we get to have hip-hop royalty.  

24                 And speaking of hip-hop royalty, 

25    like my colleagues have spoken about -- 


                                                               4772

 1    Senator Cleare I think put a finer point on it:  

 2    Black music media.  I don't know about you, but 

 3    Sunday Classics with Hal Jackson on 107.5, when 

 4    my parents were cleaning the house and I better 

 5    have it cleaned along with them.  

 6                 But when I was listening to G. Keith 

 7    Alexander and Dr. Bob Lee, making sure I was 

 8    making the grade and paying attention about 

 9    what's happening in school, to be on (announcer 

10    voice) WBLS-S-S.  Like this was the time we were 

11    taping off the radio, because we didn't the money 

12    to buy the CDs or the tapes and the songs.  So 

13    RIAA, don't get mad at me, but we were taping the 

14    songs off the radio because that's what it was.  

15    We got the -- and we sat by that radio waiting 

16    for our song to come on.  

17                 When we talk about sampling, we see 

18    there's no hip-hop if there's not Kurtis Blow.  I 

19    represent the Bronx and money-earnin' 

20    Mount Vernon, where the great Heavy D, a hip-hop 

21    renaissance man, has ruled.  But Pete Rock and 

22    C.L. Smooth made "They Reminisce Over You," but 

23    it was sampled from a jazz song called "Today" by 

24    Tom Scott.  We've heard of "Gangsta's Paradise" 

25    by Coolio, may he rest in peace, but it came from 


                                                               4773

 1    "Pastime Paradise" by Stevie Wonder.  We've heard 

 2    of "Summertime" by the Fresh Prince himself, 

 3    Will Smith, but that came from "Summer Madness" 

 4    by Kool and the Gang.  

 5                 I can go on and on.  But hip-hop and 

 6    Black music, we all borrow from each other so 

 7    that there's always going to be elements of Black 

 8    music, because it continues to create itself.  It 

 9    will never die.  The revolution may not be 

10    televised, like Gil Scott-Heron said, but it was 

11    played on the radio, Madam President.  

12                 Black music has been the rapid 

13    response system in our communities.  It allowed 

14    us to express ourselves, to remember where we 

15    were at what time we heard that certain song, and 

16    just feel what music does.

17                 You know, the BET Awards are 

18    tonight.  There wouldn't be a BET if there wasn't 

19    a Kurtis Blow.  There wouldn't be a BET if there 

20    wasn't a G. Keith or a Dr. Bob.  That wouldn't 

21    exist.  

22                 So I want people to understand 

23    exactly how far we've come, but how far we'll go.  

24    And we'll continue to make sure that in the name 

25    of Rick James and Queen Latifah, we have 


                                                               4774

 1    {falsetto} "Unity," Madam President.  

 2                 I vote aye.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

 4    Senator Bailey.  

 5                 To our incredibly distinguished 

 6    guests who are here in support of Black History 

 7    Month, for all you have contributed to many of us 

 8    who listened to you along the way, thank you for 

 9    all you have done.  Thank you to this group that 

10    put this together.  

11                 Please stand and be recognized.  You 

12    are welcome to the privileges and courtesies of 

13    the house.

14                 (Extended standing ovation.)

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

16    Gianaris.

17                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

18    there will be an immediate meeting of the 

19    Finance Committee in Room 332 -- nope, 124.  

20    Sorry.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   There will 

22    be an immediate meeting of the Finance Committee 

23    in Room 144.

24                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   124.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   124, thank 


                                                               4775

 1    you.  

 2                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   At the request 

 3    of the sponsors, today's resolutions are open for 

 4    cosponsorship.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   At the 

 6    request of the sponsors, the resolutions are open 

 7    for cosponsorship.  Should you choose not to be a 

 8    cosponsor, please notify the desk.

 9                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   I believe 

10    there's a report of the Rules Committee at the 

11    desk.  Let's take that up, please.  

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

13    Secretary will read.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator 

15    Stewart-Cousins, from the Committee on Rules, 

16    reports the following bills:

17                 Senate Print 106, by Senator Comrie, 

18    an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law; 

19                 Senate Print 253, by 

20    Senator Martinez, an act to amend the 

21    Social Services Law; 

22                 Senate Print 273, by 

23    Senator Martinez, an act to amend the 

24    Local Finance Law; 

25                 Senate Print 597, by 


                                                               4776

 1    Senator Hinchey, an act to amend the 

 2    Public Service Law; 

 3                 Senate Print 634B, by Senator Liu, 

 4    an act to amend the Insurance Law; 

 5                 Senate Print 1148, by 

 6    Senator Gounardes, an act to amend the 

 7    Public Authorities Law; 

 8                 Senate Print 1180B, by 

 9    Senator Gianaris, an act to amend the 

10    Environmental Conservation Law -- 

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   One 

12    minute.  

13                 Could we have some quiet in the 

14    chamber.  Thank you.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   -- Senate Print 

16    1757, by Senator Persaud, an act to amend the 

17    Social Services Law; 

18                 Senate Print 1807A, by 

19    Senator Fernandez, an act to amend the 

20    Public Health Law;

21                 Senate Print 1833A, by Senator May, 

22    an act to amend the Environmental Conservation 

23    Law;

24                 Senate Print 1838, by 

25    Senator Skoufis, an act to amend the 


                                                               4777

 1    General Municipal Law; 

 2                 Senate Print 1889, by Senator Ashby, 

 3    an act to amend the State Law; 

 4                 Senate Print 1982, by 

 5    Senator Harckham, an act to amend the 

 6    General Municipal Law; 

 7                 Senate Print 2048, by Senator Webb, 

 8    an act to amend the Transportation Law; 

 9                 Senate Print 3194, by 

10    Senator Skoufis, an act to amend the 

11    Real Property Tax Law; 

12                 Senate Print 3207A, by 

13    Senator Kavanagh, an act to amend the 

14    Public Health Law; 

15                 Senate Print 3231, by 

16    Senator Bailey, Concurrent Resolution of the 

17    Senate and Assembly proposing an amendment to 

18    Section 1 of Article 2 of the Constitution; 

19                 Senate Print 3256A, by 

20    Senator Cooney, an act to amend the Parks, 

21    Recreation and Historic Preservation Law; 

22                 Senate Print 3262, by 

23    Senator Cooney, an act to amend the Banking Law; 

24                 Senate Print 3620, by Senator Ortt, 

25    an act to amend the Town Law; 


                                                               4778

 1                 Senate Print 3637, by Senator Ortt, 

 2    an act to amend the County Law; 

 3                 Senate Print 3740A, by 

 4    Senator Fernandez, an act to amend the 

 5    Mental Hygiene Law; 

 6                 Senate Print 3851, by 

 7    Senator Hinchey, an act to amend the 

 8    Public Health Law; 

 9                 Senate Print 4070B, by Senator May, 

10    an act to amend the Labor Law; 

11                 Senate Print 4457B, by 

12    Senator Murray, an act authorizing the Town of 

13    Brookhaven to alienate certain parklands for use 

14    as a recharge basin; 

15                 Senate Print 4535, by 

16    Senator Skoufis, an act to amend the 

17    Executive Law; 

18                 Senate Print 4544B, by 

19    Senator Hoylman-Sigal, an act to amend the 

20    Education Law; 

21                 Senate Print 4889, by 

22    Senator Scarcella-Spanton, an act to amend the 

23    Veterans' Services Law; 

24                 Senate Print 4903, by 

25    Senator Harckham, an act to amend the 


                                                               4779

 1    Public Health Law;

 2                 Senate Print 4947, by 

 3    Senator Harckham, an act to amend the 

 4    Transportation Law;

 5                 Senate Print 4955A, by 

 6    Senator Harckham, an act to amend the 

 7    Public Health Law; 

 8                 Senate Print 5168, by 

 9    Senator Rolison, an act to amend the 

10    Real Property Tax Law; 

11                 Senate Print 5233, by Senator Weber, 

12    an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law; 

13                 Senate Print 5269, by 

14    Senator Bailey, an act to amend the 

15    State Finance Law;

16                 Senate Print 5382, by 

17    Senator Harckham, an act to amend the 

18    Mental Hygiene Law;

19                 Senate Print 5516A, by 

20    Senator Hinchey, an act to amend the 

21    Railroad Law;

22                 Senate Print 5713, by 

23    Senator Skoufis, an act to amend the 

24    Railroad Law;

25                 Senate Print 6035, by 


                                                               4780

 1    Senator Parker, an act to amend the Elder Law; 

 2                 Senate Print 6233, by 

 3    Senator Martinez, an act to amend the Tax Law; 

 4                 Senate Print 6693A, by 

 5    Senator Jackson, an act to amend the 

 6    Education Law;

 7                 Senate Print 6832, by Senator Webb, 

 8    an act to amend the Military Law; 

 9                 Senate Print 6851, by Senator Webb, 

10    an act to amend the Public Health Law; 

11                 Senate Print 6872, by 

12    Senator Hinchey, an act to amend the Tax Law; 

13                 Senate Print 6959, by 

14    Senator Hinchey, an act to amend the 

15    Social Services Law; 

16                 Senate Print 6998, by 

17    Senator Tedisco, an act to amend the Tax Law; 

18                 Senate Print 7111A, by 

19    Senator Harckham, an act to amend the 

20    Election Law;

21                 Senate Print 7139, by 

22    Senator Tedisco, an act authorizing the 

23    Commissioner of General Services to transfer and 

24    convey certain lands in the Town of Wilton to the 

25    Veterans and Community Housing Coalition; 


                                                               4781

 1                 Senate Print 7148, by 

 2    Senator Jackson, an act to amend the 

 3    Retirement and Social Security Law;

 4                 Senate Print 7222, by 

 5    Senator Bailey, an act to amend the 

 6    Insurance Law; 

 7                 Senate Print 7541, by Senator Bynoe, 

 8    an act to amend the Real Property Law; 

 9                 Senate Print 7688, by 

10    Senator Palumbo, an act in relation to 

11    authorizing certain police officers in the Town 

12    of Southold, County of Suffolk, to receive 

13    certain service credit under Section 384-d of the 

14    Retirement and Social Security Law;

15                 Senate Print 7690, by 

16    Senator Gianaris, an act to amend the 

17    Public Health Law; 

18                 Senate Print 7724, by 

19    Senator Murray, an act in relation to authorizing 

20    the assessor of the Town of Brookhaven to accept 

21    an application for a real property tax exemption; 

22                 Senate Print 7728, by 

23    Senator Skoufis, an act to amend the 

24    Public Health Law; 

25                 Senate Print 7796A, by 


                                                               4782

 1    Senator O'Mara, an act to amend the 

 2    Public Officers Law; 

 3                 Senate Print 7966, by 

 4    Senator Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, an act to amend 

 5    the Tax Law;

 6                 Senate Print 7980, by 

 7    Senator Gounardes, an act to amend the 

 8    Real Property Tax Law; 

 9                 Senate Print 8021A, by 

10    Senator Hinchey, an act to amend the 

11    Executive Law; 

12                 Senate Print 8151, by 

13    Senator Martinez, an act to amend the 

14    Real Property Tax Law; 

15                 Senate Print 8197, by 

16    Senator Brisport, an act to amend the 

17    Family Court Act;

18                 Senate Print 8201A, by 

19    Senator Martins, an act to amend Chapter 280 of 

20    the Laws of 2016;

21                 Senate Print 8237, by 

22    Senator Parker, an act to amend the 

23    Public Authorities Law;

24                 Senate Print 8238, by 

25    Senator Addabbo, an act to amend the Racing, 


                                                               4783

 1    Pari-Mutuel Wagering and Breeding Law; 

 2                 Senate Print 8255, by 

 3    Senator Serrano, an act to amend the 

 4    State Finance Law; 

 5                 Senate Print 8270, by Senator Webb, 

 6    an act to amend the Domestic Relations Law; 

 7                 Senate Print 8277, by Senator Chan, 

 8    an act to amend the Executive Law; 

 9                 Senate Print 8342, by 

10    Senator Comrie, an act to amend Part P of 

11    Chapter 39 of the Laws of 2019; 

12                 Senate Print 8343, by 

13    Senator Bailey, an act to amend the 

14    Insurance Law;

15                 Senate Print 8345, by 

16    Senator Hinchey, an act to amend Chapter 465 of 

17    the Laws of 2016; 

18                 Senate Print 8346, by 

19    Senator Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, an act to amend 

20    Chapter 846 of the Laws of 1970; 

21                 Senate Print 8357, by 

22    Senator Sanders, an act to amend the 

23    State Finance Law; 

24                 Senate Print 8361, by 

25    Senator Jackson, an act to amend the 


                                                               4784

 1    Administrative Code of the City of New York; 

 2                 Senate Print 8362, by Senator Fahy, 

 3    an act to amend Chapter 554 of the Laws of 2013; 

 4                 Senate Print 8369, by 

 5    Senator Stavisky, an act to amend the 

 6    Education Law; 

 7                 Senate Print 8370, by Senator Fahy, 

 8    an act to amend the Education Law; 

 9                 Senate Print 8371, by 

10    Senator Brisport, an act to amend the 

11    Education Law; 

12                 Senate Print 8373, by 

13    Senator Hoylman-Sigal, an act to amend the 

14    Surrogate's Court Procedure Act; 

15                 Senate Print 8383, by 

16    Senator Stavisky, an act to provide for the 

17    adjustment of stipends of certain incumbents in 

18    the State University of New York;

19                 Senate Print 138, by 

20    Senator Hoylman-Sigal, an act to amend the 

21    Public Health Law; 

22                 Senate Print 426, by Senator Liu, an 

23    act to amend the Legislative Law;

24                 Senate Print 652A, by 

25    Senator Gianaris, an act to amend the 


                                                               4785

 1    Alcoholic Beverage Control Law; 

 2                 Senate Print 915, by Senator S. 

 3    Ryan, an act to amend the Highway Law; 

 4                 Senate Print 1472, by Senator S. 

 5    Ryan, an act to amend the Penal Law; 

 6                 Senate Print 1511, by Senator Liu, 

 7    an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law; 

 8                 Senate Print 1891, by 

 9    Senator Jackson, an act to amend the Vehicle and 

10    Traffic Law; 

11                 Senate Print 1986, by 

12    Senator Harckham, an act to amend the 

13    Education Law; 

14                 Senate Print 2709, by Senator May, 

15    an act to amend the Labor Law; 

16                 Senate Print 3155, by 

17    Senator Cooney, an act to amend the 

18    Insurance Law; 

19                 Senate Print 3820B, by 

20    Senator Rivera, an act to amend the 

21    Insurance Law; 

22                 Senate Print 4052, by 

23    Senator Skoufis, an act to amend the Labor Law; 

24                 Senate Print 4230, by 

25    Senator Comrie, an act to amend the Vehicle and 


                                                               4786

 1    Traffic Law; 

 2                 Senate Print 4497, by 

 3    Senator Hinchey, an act to amend the 

 4    Insurance Law; 

 5                 Senate Print 4534, by 

 6    Senator Skoufis, an act to amend the 

 7    Executive Law; 

 8                 Senate Print 4658A, by Senator S. 

 9    Ryan, an act to amend the General Municipal Law; 

10                 Senate Print 4803, by Senator C. 

11    Ryan, an act to amend the Volunteer Firefighters' 

12    Benefit Law; 

13                 Senate Print 5324A, by 

14    Senator Bailey, an act to amend the 

15    Insurance Law;

16                 Senate Print 6150, by 

17    Senator Parker, an act to amend the Banking Law; 

18                 Senate Print 6155A, by 

19    Senator Bailey, an act to amend the 

20    Education Law; 

21                 Senate Print 6166, by Senator S. 

22    Ryan, an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law; 

23                 Senate Print 6231, by Senator Webb, 

24    an act to amend the General Business Law; 

25                 Senate Print 6334, by Senator Fahy, 


                                                               4787

 1    an act to amend the Education Law;

 2                 Senate Print 6363, by 

 3    Senator Bailey, an act to amend the 

 4    Real Property Law; 

 5                 Senate Print 6640, by 

 6    Senator Gounardes, an act to amend the 

 7    Retirement and Social Security Law; 

 8                 Senate Print 6736A, by Senator Fahy, 

 9    an act to amend the Social Services Law; 

10                 Senate Print 7007, by Senator Bynoe, 

11    an act to amend the General Business Law; 

12                 Senate Print 7032, by 

13    Senator Sepúlveda, an act to amend the 

14    Vehicle and Traffic Law; 

15                 Senate Print 7191, by 

16    Senator Scarcella-Spanton, an act to amend the 

17    Vehicle and Traffic Law; 

18                 Senate Print 7422A, by 

19    Senator Stewart-Cousins, an act to amend the 

20    Vehicle and Traffic Law; 

21                 Senate Print 7485, by Senator Mayer, 

22    an act to amend the Labor Law; 

23                 Senate Print 7545, by Senator Brouk, 

24    an act to amend the Public Health Law; 

25                 Senate Print 7642, by 


                                                               4788

 1    Senator Comrie, an act to amend the 

 2    Public Health Law; 

 3                 Senate Print 7680A, by 

 4    Senator Serrano, an act to amend the Parks, 

 5    Recreation and Historic Preservation Law; 

 6                 Senate Print 7717, by 

 7    Senator Cooney, an act to amend the 

 8    General Business Law; 

 9                 Senate Print 7731, by Senator Webb, 

10    an act to amend the Insurance Law; 

11                 Senate Print 7800, by 

12    Senator Harckham, an act to amend the 

13    Public Officers Law;

14                 Senate Print 7801, by 

15    Senator Harckham, an act to amend the 

16    Public Officers Law; 

17                 Senate Print 7882, by 

18    Senator Hoylman-Sigal, an act to amend the 

19    General Business Law;

20                 Senate Print 7889, by 

21    Senator Palumbo, an act relating to permitting 

22    the Setauket Fire District and Stony Brook Fire 

23    District to enter into contracts with the State 

24    University of New York at Stony Brook; 

25                 Senate Print 7984, by 


                                                               4789

 1    Senator Fernandez, an act to amend the 

 2    Social Services Law; 

 3                 Senate Print 8059, by 

 4    Senator Bailey, an act to amend the Vehicle and 

 5    Traffic Law; 

 6                 Senate Print 8082, by Senator Brouk, 

 7    an act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law; 

 8                 Senate Print 8150, by Senator Bynoe, 

 9    an act to amend the Veterans' Services Law; 

10                 Senate Print 8207, by 

11    Senator Jackson, an act to amend the 

12    Retirement and Social Security Law; 

13                 Senate Print 8256, by 

14    Senator Sutton, an act to amend the 

15    Administrative Code of the City of New York; 

16                 Senate Print 8257, by 

17    Senator Sutton, an act directing the 

18    Department of Health to establish an alternative 

19    payment methodology for Federally Qualified 

20    Health Centers; 

21                 Senate Print 8271, by 

22    Senator Stewart-Cousins, an act in relation to 

23    authorizing the City of Yonkers to alienate and 

24    discontinue the use of certain parklands; 

25                 Senate Print 8312, by 


                                                               4790

 1    Senator Hinchey, an act to amend the 

 2    Criminal Procedure Law;

 3                 Senate Print 8320, by 

 4    Senator Hoylman-Sigal, an act to amend the 

 5    Court of Claims Act; 

 6                 Senate Print 8334, by 

 7    Senator Gounardes, an act to amend the 

 8    Insurance Law; 

 9                 Senate Print 8338, by Senator Mayer, 

10    an act to amend the Executive Law;

11                 Senate Print 8384, by 

12    Senator Jackson, an act to amend the 

13    Executive Law.

14                 All bills reported direct to third  

15    reading.

16                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to accept 

17    the report of the Rules Committee.  

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   All those 

19    in favor of accepting the report of the 

20    Rules Committee please signify by saying aye.

21                 (Response of "Aye.")

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Opposed, 

23    nay.

24                 (Response of "Nay.")

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 


                                                               4791

 1    report of the Rules Committee is accepted.

 2                 Senator Gianaris.  

 3                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Let's take up 

 4    the calendar at this time, Mr. President.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 6    Secretary will read.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 8    182, Senate Print 1985A, by Senator Harckham, an 

 9    act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

10                 SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Lay it 

12    aside.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

14    204, Senate Print 488A, by Senator Fernandez, an 

15    act to amend the General Business Law.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

17    last section.

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.  This 

19    act shall take effect on the 180th day after it 

20    shall have become a law.  

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

22    roll.

23                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

25    the results.


                                                               4792

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 2    Calendar 204, voting in the negative are 

 3    Senators Ashby, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Chan, 

 4    Mattera, Ortt, Palumbo, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk 

 5    and Weik.

 6                 Ayes, 51.  Nays, 10.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 8    is passed.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

10    246, Senate Print 2271, by Senator Krueger, an 

11    act to amend the Executive Law.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

13    last section.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

15    act shall take effect on the first of January.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

17    roll.

18                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

20    the results.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

22    Calendar 246, voting in the negative are 

23    Senators Ashby, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Chan, 

24    Lanza, Martins, Mattera, Oberacker, Ortt, 

25    Palumbo, Rhoads, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk and Weik.


                                                               4793

 1                 Ayes, 47.  Nays, 14.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 3    is passed.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 5    316, Assembly Bill Number 804C, by 

 6    Assemblymember Magnarelli, an act to amend the 

 7    General Business Law.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 9    last section.

10                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.  This 

11    act shall take effect on the 180th day after it 

12    shall have become a law.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

14    roll.

15                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

17    the results.

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

20    is passed.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

22    322, Assembly Bill Number 1096B, by 

23    Assemblymember Magnarelli, an act to amend the 

24    General Business Law.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 


                                                               4794

 1    last section.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 3    act shall take effect on the 90th day after it 

 4    shall have become a law.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 6    roll.

 7                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 9    the results.

10                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

11    Calendar 322, voting in the negative:  

12    Senator Walczyk.

13                 Ayes, 60.  Nays, 1.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

15    is passed.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

17    500, Senate Print 626, by Senator Stavisky, an 

18    act to amend the Penal Law.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

20    last section.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

22    act shall take effect immediately.  

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

24    roll.

25                 (The Secretary called the roll.)


                                                               4795

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 2    the results.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 4    Calendar 500, voting in the negative are 

 5    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Oberacker, Ortt, Stec, 

 6    Tedisco, Walczyk and Weik.

 7                 Ayes, 53.  Nays, 8.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 9    is passed.

10                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

11    510, Senate Print 194A, by Senator Martinez, an 

12    act to amend the General Business Law.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

14    last section.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

16    act shall take effect on the 180th day after it 

17    shall have become a law.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

19    roll.

20                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

22    the results.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

24    Calendar Number 510, voting in the negative are 

25    Senators Oberacker, Ortt, Rhoads, Stec, Tedisco, 


                                                               4796

 1    Walczyk and Weik.

 2                 Ayes, 54.  Nays, 7.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 4    is passed.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 6    511, Senate Print 397, by Senator Myrie, an act 

 7    to amend the General Business Law.

 8                 SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Lay it 

10    aside.  

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

12    592, Senate Print 4840, by Senator Fahy, an act 

13    to amend the Lien Law.

14                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Lay it aside for 

15    the day.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

17    will be laid aside for the day.

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

19    627, Senate Print 6600B, by Senator Jackson, an 

20    act to amend the Multiple Dwelling Law.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

22    last section.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

24    act shall take effect immediately.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 


                                                               4797

 1    roll.

 2                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 4    the results.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 6    Calendar 627, voting in the negative are 

 7    Senators Ashby, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Chan, 

 8    Lanza, Martins, Mattera, Oberacker, Ortt, 

 9    Palumbo, Rhoads, Rolison, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk 

10    and Weik.

11                 Ayes, 46.  Nays, 15.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

13    is passed.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

15    632, Senate Print 5277, by Senator Bailey, an act 

16    to amend the Cannabis Law.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

18    last section.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

20    act shall take effect immediately.  

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

22    roll.  

23                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

25    the results.


                                                               4798

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 2    Calendar 632, voting in the negative are 

 3    Senators Ashby, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Chan, 

 4    Lanza, Martinez, Martins, Mattera, Ortt, Palumbo, 

 5    Rhoads, Tedisco, Walczyk and Weik.

 6                 Ayes, 48.  Nays, 13.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 8    is passed.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

10    634, Senate Print 2433A, by Senator Krueger, an 

11    act to amend the Real Property Law.

12                 SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Lay it 

14    aside.  

15                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

16    645, Senate Print 4906A, by Senator Fahy, an act 

17    to amend the Executive Law.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

19    last section.

20                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

21    act shall take effect on the 120th day after it 

22    shall have become a law.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

24    roll.

25                 (The Secretary called the roll.)


                                                               4799

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 2    the results.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 5    is passed.

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 7    773, Senate Print 1353B, by Senator Cleare, an 

 8    act to amend the General Business Law.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

10    last section.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

12    act shall take effect on the 90th day after it 

13    shall have become a law.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

15    roll.

16                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

18    the results.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

20    Calendar 773, voting in the negative are 

21    Senators Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Lanza, Mattera, 

22    Oberacker, Ortt, Stec, Walczyk and Weik.

23                 Ayes, 53.  Nays, 8.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

25    is passed.


                                                               4800

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 2    779, Senate Print 290A, by Senator Rhoads, an act 

 3    to amend the Highway Law.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 5    last section.

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 7    act shall take effect immediately.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 9    roll.

10                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

12    the results.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

14    Calendar 779, voting in the negative:  

15    Senator Brisport.

16                 Ayes, 60.  Nays, 1.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

18    is passed.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

20    882, Senate Print 7630, by Senator Skoufis, an 

21    act to amend the Tax Law.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

23    last section.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

25    act shall take effect immediately.


                                                               4801

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 2    roll.

 3                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 5    the results.

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 7    Calendar 882, voting in the negative are 

 8    Senators Harckham, Hinchey, Lanza, Martinez, 

 9    Palumbo, C. Ryan, Scarcella-Spanton and Weik.  

10    Also Senator Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick.  

11                 Ayes, 52.  Nays, 9.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

13    is passed.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

15    899, Senate Print 607A, by Senator Stavisky, an 

16    act to amend the Education Law.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

18    last section.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 15.  This 

20    act shall take effect 18 months after it shall 

21    have become a law.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

23    roll.

24                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 


                                                               4802

 1    the results.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 4    is passed.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 6    1037, Senate Print 550A, by Senator Brisport, an 

 7    act to amend the Social Services Law.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 9    last section.

10                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.  This 

11    act shall take effect immediately.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

13    roll.

14                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

16    the results.

17                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

18    Calendar 1037, voting in the negative are 

19    Senators Bynoe and Martinez.

20                 Ayes, 59.  Nays, 2.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

22    is passed.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

24    1039, Senate Print 1026A, by Senator Kavanagh, an 

25    act to amend the Executive Law.


                                                               4803

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 2    last section.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 4    act shall take effect on the 90th day after it 

 5    shall have become a law.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 7    roll.

 8                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

10    the results.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

12    Calendar 1039, voting in the negative are 

13    Senators Ashby, Lanza, Oberacker, Ortt, Palumbo, 

14    Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk and Weik.

15                 Ayes, 52.  Nays, 9.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

17    is passed.

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

19    1052, Senate Print 2646, by Senator Stec, an act 

20    to amend the Executive Law.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

22    last section.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

24    act shall take effect immediately.  

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 


                                                               4804

 1    roll.

 2                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 4    the results.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 7    is passed.

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 9    1054, Assembly Bill Number 6195, by 

10    Assemblymember Fall, an act to amend Chapter 306 

11    of the Laws of 2011.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

13    last section.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

15    act shall take effect immediately.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

17    roll.

18                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

20    the results.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

23    is passed.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

25    1067, Senate Print 2110D, by Senator Oberacker, 


                                                               4805

 1    an act to amend the Highway Law.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 3    last section.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 5    act shall take effect immediately.  

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 7    roll.  

 8                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

10    the results.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

13    is passed.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

15    1153, Senate Print 6009, by Senator Baskin, an 

16    act to amend the General Municipal Law.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

18    last section.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.  This 

20    act shall take effect immediately.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

22    roll.

23                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

25    the results.


                                                               4806

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 3    is passed.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 5    1154, Assembly Bill Number 6593, by 

 6    Assemblymember Schiavoni, an act to amend 

 7    Chapter 264 of the Laws of 1961.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 9    last section.  

10                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

11    act shall take effect immediately.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

13    roll.

14                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

16    the results.

17                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

18    Calendar 1154, voting in the negative:  

19    Senator Skoufis.

20                 Ayes, 60.  Nays, 1.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

22    is passed.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

24    1219, Senate Print 2058, by Senator Webb, an act 

25    to amend the Education Law.


                                                               4807

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 2    last section.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

 4    act shall take effect April 1, 2026.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 6    roll.

 7                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 9    the results.

10                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

11    Calendar 1219, voting in the negative are 

12    Senators Ashby, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Chan, 

13    Lanza, Martinez, Oberacker, Ortt, Rhoads, Stec, 

14    Tedisco, Walczyk and Weik.

15                 Ayes, 49.  Nays, 12.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

17    is passed.

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

19    1246, Senate Print 362, by Senator Gianaris, an 

20    act to amend the General Business Law.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

22    last section.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 6.  This 

24    act shall take effect on the first of January.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 


                                                               4808

 1    roll.

 2                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 4    the results.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 6    Calendar 1246, voting in the negative are 

 7    Senators Ashby, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Chan, 

 8    Harckham, Hinchey, Lanza, Mattera, Oberacker, 

 9    Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, Rolison, C. Ryan, Stec, 

10    Tedisco, Walczyk and Weik.

11                 Ayes, 44.  Nays, 17.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

13    is passed.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Calendar 

15    Number 1239 is high and will be laid aside for 

16    the day.

17                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

18    1254, Senate Print 6121, by Senator Mayer, an act 

19    to amend the Executive Law.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

21    last section.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

23    act shall take effect immediately.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

25    roll.


                                                               4809

 1                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 3    the results.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 5    Calendar 1254, voting in the negative are 

 6    Senators Ashby, Oberacker, Ortt and Walczyk.

 7                 Ayes, 57.  Nays, 4.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 9    is passed.

10                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

11    1269, Senate Print 3610A, by Senator Helming, an 

12    act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

14    last section.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

16    act shall take effect on the 60th day after it 

17    shall have become a law.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

19    roll.

20                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

22    the results.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

25    is passed.


                                                               4810

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 2    1311, Senate Print 4542, by Senator Fahy, an act 

 3    in relation to authorizing Justin Finkle to take 

 4    the competitive civil service examination for the 

 5    position of police officer.  

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   There is 

 7    a home-rule message at the desk.

 8                 Read the last section.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

10    act shall take effect immediately.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

12    roll.

13                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

15    the results.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

18    is passed.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

20    1354, Senate Print 4836, by Senator Fahy, an act 

21    to amend the Judiciary Law.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

23    last section.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

25    act shall take effect immediately.


                                                               4811

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 2    roll.

 3                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 5    the results.

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 8    is passed.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

10    1411, Senate Print 5597, by Senator May, an act 

11    to amend the General Business Law.

12                 SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Lay it 

14    aside.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

16    1416, Senate Print 7727, by Senator Skoufis, an 

17    act to amend the General Business Law.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

19    last section.

20                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

21    act shall take effect on the 90th day after it 

22    shall have become a law.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

24    roll.

25                 (The Secretary called the roll.)


                                                               4812

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 2    the results.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 4    Calendar 1416, voting in the negative are 

 5    Senators Lanza, Martins and Walczyk.

 6                 Ayes, 58.  Nays, 3.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 8    is passed.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

10    1421, Senate Print 7455, by Senator 

11    Hoylman-Sigal, Concurrent Resolution --

12                 SENATOR SERRANO:   Excuse me.  Lay 

13    it aside for the day.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

15    will be laid aside for the day.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

17    1423, Senate Print 8175, by Senator Sepúlveda, an 

18    act to amend the Surrogate's Court Procedure Act.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

20    last section.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.  This 

22    act shall take effect immediately.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

24    roll.

25                 (The Secretary called the roll.)


                                                               4813

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 2    the results.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 4    Calendar 1423, voting in the negative:  

 5    Senator Walczyk.

 6                 Ayes, 60.  Nays, 1. 

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 8    is passed.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

10    1445, Senate Print 7649, by Senator C. Ryan, an 

11    act to amend the Tax Law.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

13    last section.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

15    act shall take effect immediately.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

17    roll.

18                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

20    the results.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

22    Calendar 1445, voting in the negative are 

23    Senators Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Harckham, 

24    Hinchey, Lanza, Martinez, Scarcella-Spanton, 

25    Skoufis and Weik.


                                                               4814

 1                 Ayes, 53.  Nays, 8. 

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 3    is passed.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Excuse me.  Also 

 5    Senator Palumbo as well.

 6                 Ayes, 52.  Nays, 9.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 8    still passes.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

10    1448, Assembly Bill Number 979A, by 

11    Assemblymember Lunsford, an act to amend the 

12    Insurance Law.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

14    last section.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

16    act shall take effect immediately.  

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

18    roll.

19                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

21    the results.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

24    is passed.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 


                                                               4815

 1    1451, Assembly Bill Number 6595, by 

 2    Assemblymember Weprin, an act to amend the 

 3    Insurance Law.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 5    last section.

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 7    act shall take effect immediately.  

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 9    roll.

10                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

12    the results.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

14    Calendar 1451, voting in the negative:  

15    Senator Walczyk.

16                 Ayes, 60.  Nays, 1.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

18    is passed.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

20    1456, Senate Print 56B, by Senator Fernandez, an 

21    act to amend the Public Health Law.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

23    last section.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

25    act shall take effect immediately.  


                                                               4816

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 2    roll.

 3                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 5    Fernandez to explain her vote.

 6                 SENATOR FERNANDEZ:   Thank you, 

 7    Mr. President.

 8                 This legislation codifies the 

 9    Drug Checking Services Program in New York State, 

10    something we've been doing for a number of years.  

11                 In October 2023 the Department of 

12    Health announced a drug checking program to 

13    protect individuals from laced drugs, to better 

14    understand the local drug supply, and improve 

15    outcomes for people with a substance use 

16    disorder.

17                 Since its inception the program has 

18    allowed for realtime testing on nearly 

19    2500 samples at 13 different sites.  Unlike test 

20    strips, which allow you to test for one substance 

21    at a time, the machine that's used in these 

22    programs can test for a number of adulterants 

23    such as fentanyl and its analogs, xylazine, 

24    medetomidine, caffeine, acetaminophen, as well as 

25    more fillers such as mannitol.  


                                                               4817

 1                 The data from these samples have not 

 2    only provided lifesaving information to the 

 3    individuals using these services but have 

 4    provided DOH and their providers with current 

 5    drug trends to inform care, advocacy, research 

 6    and policy.  

 7                 This program, along with other 

 8    public health responses to the overdose epidemic, 

 9    is responsible for the small but steady decrease 

10    in overdoses within the state.  We can build on 

11    this progress by codifying the drug checking 

12    program already being facilitated across the 

13    state.  

14                 This bill ensures that drug checking 

15    programs are protected in our state at a time 

16    when we are seeing constant attacks on behavioral 

17    health services from the federal government.  It 

18    not only provides legal protections for the 

19    individuals operating and using drug checking 

20    services, but it also empowers the Department of 

21    Health to monitor and to respond to trends in the 

22    unregulated drug supply to get and stay ahead of 

23    the overdose crisis.  

24                 Now is not the time to claim victory 

25    and walk back our efforts.  We must continue to 


                                                               4818

 1    push forward to help those most vulnerable 

 2    New Yorkers, especially those in the Black and 

 3    brown communities who have borne the brunt of 

 4    this epidemic.  Let's continue these dips and 

 5    make sure we're keeping programs that work alive.  

 6                 I urge my colleagues to support this 

 7    legislation.  I vote aye.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 9    Fernandez to be recorded in the affirmative.

10                 Announce the results.  

11                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

12    Calendar 1456, voting in the negative are 

13    Senators Ashby, Bynoe, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 

14    Chan, Lanza, Martinez, Martins, Mattera, Ortt, 

15    Palumbo, Rhoads, Rolison, C. Ryan, Skoufis, Stec, 

16    Sutton, Tedisco, Walczyk and Weik.

17                 Ayes, 42.  Nays, 19.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

19    is passed.

20                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

21    1486, Senate Print 4641A, by Senator S. Ryan, an 

22    act to amend the Labor Law.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

24    last section.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.  This 


                                                               4819

 1    act shall take effect on the 30th day after it 

 2    shall have become a law.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 4    roll.

 5                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 7    the results.

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 9    Calendar 1486, voting in the negative are 

10    Senators Ashby, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Chan, 

11    Lanza, Martins, Mattera, Oberacker, Ortt, 

12    Palumbo, Rhoads, Rolison, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk 

13    and Weik.

14                 Ayes, 46.  Nays, 15.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

16    is passed.

17                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

18    1512, Senate Print 7974, by Senator Gonzalez, an 

19    act to amend the General Business Law.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

21    last section.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

23    act shall take effect immediately.  

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

25    roll.


                                                               4820

 1                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 3    the results.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 5    Calendar 1512, voting in the negative are 

 6    Senators Ashby, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Mattera, 

 7    Oberacker, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, Rolison, Stec, 

 8    Tedisco, Walczyk and Weik.

 9                 Ayes, 49.  Nays, 12.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

11    is passed.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

13    1513, Senate Print Number 7451, by 

14    Senator Hoylman-Sigal, an act to amend the 

15    Domestic Relations Law.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

17    last section. 

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

19    act shall take effect immediately.  

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

21    roll.

22                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

24    the results.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 


                                                               4821

 1    Calendar 1513, voting in the negative are 

 2    Senators Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Lanza, Martins, 

 3    Ortt, Rhoads, Stec, Tedisco and Walczyk.

 4                 Ayes, 53.  Nays, 8. 

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 6    is passed.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 8    1518, Senate Print 84, by Senator Liu, an act to 

 9    amend Chapter 802 of the Laws of 1947.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

11    last section.  

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

13    act shall take effect immediately.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

15    roll.

16                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

18    the results.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

20    Calendar 1518, voting in the negative are 

21    Senators Ashby, Chan, Lanza, Mattera, Oberacker, 

22    O'Mara, Ortt, Rhoads, Rolison, Skoufis, Stec, 

23    Tedisco, Walczyk and Weik.

24                 Ayes, 47.  Nays, 14.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 


                                                               4822

 1    is passed.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 3    1519, Senate Print Number 455A, by 

 4    Senator Hoylman-Sigal, an act to amend the 

 5    Public Officers Law.  

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 7    last section.

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

 9    act shall take effect immediately.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

11    roll.  

12                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

14    the results.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

16    Calendar 1519, voting in the negative are 

17    Senators Martins and Walczyk.

18                 Ayes, 59.  Nays, 2.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

20    is passed.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

22    1521, Senate Print 649, by Senator S. Ryan, an 

23    act to amend Subpart H of Part C of Chapter 20 of 

24    the Laws of 2015.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 


                                                               4823

 1    last section.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 3    act shall take effect immediately.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 5    roll.

 6                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 8    the results.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

10    Calendar 1521, voting in the negative:  

11    Senator Walczyk.

12                 Ayes, 60.  Nays, 1.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

14    is passed.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

16    1523, Senate Print 1613A, by Senator Fahy, an act 

17    directing the Empire State Development 

18    Corporation, in conjunction with the Office of 

19    General Services, to create plans for the 

20    development of mixed-use commercial and 

21    residential property.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

23    last section.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.  This 

25    act shall take effect immediately.  


                                                               4824

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 2    roll.

 3                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 5    Fahy to explain her vote.

 6                 SENATOR FAHY:   Thank you, 

 7    Mr. President.  

 8                 I rise to vote aye in support of 

 9    this legislation.  I'm really pleased.  This has 

10    been a years-long effort to allow for mixed-use 

11    development on a 7-acre portion where we plan to 

12    build the Wadsworth Labs as well as to create a 

13    master plan for the entire campus, which is well 

14    over 200 acres and highly underutilized.  In 

15    fact, it's called -- often referred to as the 

16    "uptown parking lot district."  

17                 We think this will go hand-in-hand 

18    with the transformational $400 million that we've 

19    secured to revitalize the downtown campus; I'm 

20    very grateful to the Governor on that part.  

21                 However, we are investing 

22    1.7 billion in state-of-the-art Wadsworth public 

23    health labs, and it is being done in isolation of 

24    the rest of Harriman Campus and only addressing 

25    one part of it.  


                                                               4825

 1                 We face a massive housing shortage.  

 2    We think more can be done with a portion of the 

 3    land designated for Wadsworth, those -- the 

 4    7 acres I referred to, as well as a comprehensive 

 5    plan which we hope would also address some of the 

 6    needs of New York Creates and other growth 

 7    industries here in the Capital Region.

 8                 This vision has been -- a bigger 

 9    vision for Harriman has been supported by 

10    75 elected officials, community leaders, labor, 

11    neighborhood associations and more.  And again, 

12    want this to go hand-in-hand with the efforts in 

13    downtown.  

14                 We are trying to correct mistakes 

15    from five decades ago that have fueled a 

16    disconnected, sprawling campus that is still very 

17    much stuck in the 1960s.  We think that a much 

18    bigger vision is needed there and that we can do 

19    both, as well as build these state-of-the-art 

20    Wadsworth labs that we've been advocating for for 

21    about 10 years.  

22                 And with that, Mr. President, I'm 

23    grateful to see this legislation move, and I vote 

24    in the affirmative.  Thank you.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 


                                                               4826

 1    Fahy to be recorded in the affirmative.

 2                 Announce the results.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 4    Calendar 1523, voting in the negative are 

 5    Senators Oberacker, Rolison and Weik.

 6                 Ayes, 58.  Nays, 3.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 8    is passed.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

10    1530, Assembly Bill Number 6783, by 

11    Assemblymember Weprin, an act in relation to 

12    ordering a study and report on a proposed 

13    extension of the Long Island Motor Parkway.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

15    last section.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

17    act shall take effect immediately.  

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

19    roll.  

20                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

22    the results.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

25    is passed.


                                                               4827

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 2    1531, Assembly Bill Number 7377, by 

 3    Assemblymember Stirpe, an act to amend the 

 4    Canal Law.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 6    last section.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 8    act shall take effect immediately.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

10    roll.

11                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

13    the results.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61. 

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

16    is passed.

17                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

18    1535, Senate Print 5387, by Senator Harckham, an 

19    act directing the Commissioner of Transportation 

20    to waive an annual security deposit fee.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

22    last section.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

24    act shall take effect immediately.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 


                                                               4828

 1    roll.

 2                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 4    the results.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 7    is passed.

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 9    1537, Senate Print 5755, by Senator Cleare, an 

10    act to amend the Public Health Law.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

12    last section.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

14    act shall take effect immediately.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

16    roll.

17                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

19    Cleare to explain her vote.

20                 SENATOR CLEARE:   Thank you, 

21    Mr. President.

22                 Recreational cannabis may be legal 

23    in New York State, and the MRTA got it right when 

24    it prohibited those under 21 from the purchase, 

25    possession or use of recreational cannabis.  


                                                               4829

 1                 However, you cannot take a step in 

 2    any direction in my district without encountering 

 3    a smoke shop or a glaring advertisement of 

 4    cannabis of any kind.  

 5                 This oversaturation and easy 

 6    accessibility is harmful and exploitative because 

 7    it's sending a message to those under 21 that 

 8    using cannabis is okay.  And with all the candy, 

 9    cookie, cake and other snack and beverage 

10    options, it is quite appealing to them.

11                 According to the Centers for Disease 

12    Control and Prevention, CDC, the brain is not 

13    fully developed until the age of 25.  And 

14    marijuana use during the teenage and young adult 

15    years could impact its development in an adverse 

16    manner.  

17                 There are facts and education that 

18    every young person should have.  And it's not a 

19    matter of just saying no, but being able to make 

20    an intelligent and reasoned decision.  Creating 

21    an awareness program will help equip our young 

22    people with sound information and an opportunity 

23    to ask important questions.  

24                 I proudly vote aye and ask my 

25    colleagues to do the same.


                                                               4830

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 2    Cleare to be recorded in the affirmative.

 3                 Announce the results.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 6    is passed.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 8    1539, Senate Print 6307, by Senator Sanders, an 

 9    act to amend the Environmental Conservation Law.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

11    last section.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.  This 

13    act shall take effect immediately.  

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

15    roll.

16                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

18    the results.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

21    is passed.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

23    1541, Senate Print 6484A, by Senator C. Ryan, an 

24    act to amend the Economic Development Law.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 


                                                               4831

 1    last section.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 7.  This 

 3    act shall take effect on the 180th day after it 

 4    shall have become a law.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 6    roll.

 7                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 9    the results.

10                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

12    is passed.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

14    1544, Assembly Bill Number 1241A, by 

15    Assemblymember Simon, an act to repeal 

16    Section 17-140 of the Election Law.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

18    last section.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

20    act shall take effect immediately.  

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

22    roll.

23                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

25    the results.


                                                               4832

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 2    Calendar 1544, voting in the negative are 

 3    Senators Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Chan, Lanza, 

 4    Mattera, Oberacker, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, 

 5    Rolison, Stec, Tedisco and Weik.

 6                 Ayes, 49.  Nays, 12. 

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 8    is passed.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

10    1546, Assembly Bill Number 7745, by 

11    Assemblymember Stern, an act to amend the 

12    Tax Law.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

14    last section.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

16    act shall take effect immediately.  

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

18    roll.

19                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

21    the results.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

23    Calendar 1546, voting in the negative are 

24    Senators Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Harckham, 

25    Hinchey, Lanza, C. Ryan, Scarcella-Spanton and 


                                                               4833

 1    Skoufis.

 2                 Ayes, 54.  Nays, 7.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 4    is passed.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 6    1547, Assembly Bill Number 5927, by 

 7    Assemblymember P. Carroll, an act to amend the 

 8    Chapter 329 of the Laws of 2009.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

10    last section.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

12    act shall take effect immediately.  

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

14    roll.

15                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

17    the results.

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

20    is passed.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

22    1548, Senate Print 7542A, by Senator Ortt, an act 

23    to amend Chapter 530 of the Laws of 2024.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

25    last section.


                                                               4834

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 2    act shall take effect immediately.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 4    roll.

 5                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 7    the results.  

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 9    Calendar 1548, voting in the negative are 

10    Senators Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Harckham, Lanza, 

11    Martinez, C. Ryan, Scarcella-Spanton and Skoufis.

12                 Ayes, 54.  Nays, 7.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

14    is passed.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

16    1551, Assembly Bill Number 8113, by 

17    Assemblymember Seawright, an act to amend 

18    Chapter 462 of the Laws of 2015.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

20    last section.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

22    act shall take effect immediately.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

24    roll.

25                 (The Secretary called the roll.)


                                                               4835

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 2    the results.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 5    is passed.

 6                 There is a substitution at the desk.  

 7                 The Secretary will read.

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Rolison 

 9    moves to discharge, from the Committee on 

10    Investigations and Government Operations, 

11    Assembly Bill Number 8074A and substitute it for 

12    the identical Senate Bill 7742A, Third Reading 

13    Calendar 1552.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

15    substitution is so ordered.

16                 The Secretary will read.  

17                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

18    1552, Assembly Bill Number 8074A, by 

19    Assemblymember Jacobson, an act to amend the 

20    Tax Law.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

22    last section.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

24    act shall take effect immediately.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 


                                                               4836

 1    roll.

 2                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 4    the results.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 6    Calendar 1552, voting in the negative are 

 7    Senators Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Harckham, Lanza, 

 8    Martinez, C. Ryan, Scarcella-Spanton, Skoufis and 

 9    Weik.

10                 Ayes, 53.  Nays, 8.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

12    is passed.

13                 There is a substitution at the desk.  

14                 The Secretary will read.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Webb moves 

16    to discharge, from the Committee on 

17    Investigations and Government Operations, 

18    Assembly Bill Number 8155 and substitute it for 

19    the identical Senate Bill 7804, Third Reading 

20    Calendar 1553.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

22    substitution is so ordered.

23                 The Secretary will read.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

25    1553, Assembly Bill Number 8155, by 


                                                               4837

 1    Assemblymember Kelles, an act to amend the 

 2    Tax Law.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 4    last section.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 6    act shall take effect immediately.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 8    roll.

 9                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

11    the results.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

13    Calendar 1553, voting in the negative are 

14    Senators Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Harckham, Lanza, 

15    Martinez, C. Ryan, Scarcella-Spanton, Skoufis, 

16    Tedisco and Weik.

17                 Ayes, 52.  Nays, 9.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

19    is passed.

20                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

21    1557, Assembly Bill Number 8276, by 

22    Assemblymember Levenberg, an act to amend 

23    Chapter 606 of the Laws of 2006.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

25    last section.


                                                               4838

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 2    act shall take effect immediately.  

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 4    roll.

 5                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 7    Ashby to explain his vote.

 8                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Thank you, 

 9    Mr. President.  

10                 I want to thank the sponsor for 

11    bringing this bill to the floor.  

12                 And I think if we're all in 

13    agreement that we can declare this as 

14    presumptuous, then I would hope that we could 

15    recognize our responsibility in providing 

16    pre-cancer screenings for all volunteer 

17    firefighters.  Hope to see that into law soon.

18                 Thank you.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

20    Ashby to be recorded in the affirmative.

21                 Announce the results.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

24    is passed.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 


                                                               4839

 1    1560, Assembly Bill Number 8210, by 

 2    Assemblymember Kelles, an act to amend 

 3    Chapter 443 of the Laws of 2007.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 5    last section.

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 7    act shall take effect immediately.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 9    roll.

10                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

12    the results.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

14    Calendar 1560, voting in the negative are 

15    Senators Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Harckham, Lanza, 

16    Martinez, C. Ryan, Scarcella-Spanton, Skoufis, 

17    Tedisco and Weik.

18                 Ayes, 52.  Nays, 9.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

20    is passed.  

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

22    1562, Assembly Bill Number 8597, by 

23    Assemblymember Stirpe, an act to amend 

24    Chapter 230 of the Laws of 2023.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 


                                                               4840

 1    last section.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 3    act shall take effect immediately.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 5    roll.

 6                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 8    the results.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

10    Calendar 1562, voting in the negative:  

11    Senators Martinez and May.

12                 Ayes, 59.  Nays, 2.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

14    is passed.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

16    1563, Assembly Bill Number 8275, by 

17    Assemblymember Jones, an act to amend Chapter 668 

18    of the Laws of 1997.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

20    last section.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

22    act shall take effect immediately.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

24    roll.

25                 (The Secretary called the roll.)


                                                               4841

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 2    the results.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 5    is passed.

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 7    1570, Assembly Bill Number 8571, by 

 8    Assemblymember Rosenthal, an act to amend 

 9    Chapter 514 of the Laws of 1983.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

11    last section.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

13    act shall take effect immediately.  

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

15    roll.

16                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

18    the results.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

21    is passed.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

23    1571, Assembly Bill Number 8433, by 

24    Assemblymember Davila, an act to amend 

25    Chapter 436 of the Laws of 1997.


                                                               4842

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 2    last section.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 4    act shall take effect immediately.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 6    roll.

 7                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 9    the results.

10                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

11    Calendar 1571, voting in the negative:  

12    Senator Walczyk.

13                 Ayes, 60.  Nays, 1.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

15    is passed.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

17    1576, Assembly Bill Number 7212, by 

18    Assemblymember Otis, an act to amend Chapter 618 

19    of the Laws of 1998.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

21    last section.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.  This 

23    act shall take effect immediately.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

25    roll.


                                                               4843

 1                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 3    the results.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 6    is passed.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 8    1577, Assembly Bill Number 8153, by 

 9    Assemblymember P. Carroll, an act to amend 

10    Chapter 674 of the Laws of 1993.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

12    last section.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

14    act shall take effect immediately.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

16    roll.

17                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

19    the results.

20                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

22    is passed.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

24    1578, Assembly Bill Number 7694, by 

25    Assemblymember Conrad, an act to amend 


                                                               4844

 1    Chapter 413 of the Laws of 2003.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 3    last section.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 5    act shall take effect immediately.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 7    roll.

 8                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

10    the results.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

13    is passed.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

15    1583, Assembly Bill Number 8416, by 

16    Assemblymember Burke, an act to amend the 

17    Local Finance Law.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

19    last section.

20                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

21    act shall take effect immediately.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

23    roll.

24                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 


                                                               4845

 1    the results.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 4    is passed.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 6    1584, Assembly Bill Number 8478, by 

 7    Assemblymember Valdez, an act to amend Chapter 20 

 8    of the Laws of 1998.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

10    last section.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

12    act shall take effect immediately.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

14    roll.

15                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

17    the results.

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

20    is passed.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

22    1586, Assembly Bill Number 8596, by 

23    Assemblymember Glick, an act to amend Chapter 550 

24    of the Laws of 2013.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 


                                                               4846

 1    last section.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

 3    act shall take effect immediately.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 5    roll.

 6                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 8    the results.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

11    is passed.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

13    1587, Senate Print 8273, by 

14    Senator Stewart-Cousins, an act to amend 

15    Chapter 118 of the Laws of 1969.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

17    last section.

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

19    act shall take effect July 1, 2025.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

21    roll.  

22                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

24    the results.  

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.


                                                               4847

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 2    is passed.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 4    1590, Assembly Bill Number 8568, by 

 5    Assemblymember Lavine, an act to amend the 

 6    Real Property Tax Law.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 8    last section.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

10    act shall take effect immediately.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

12    roll.

13                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

15    the results.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

17    Calendar 1590, voting in the negative:  

18    Senator Skoufis.

19                 Ayes, 60.  Nays, 1. 

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

21    is passed.

22                 Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

23    reading of today's calendar.

24                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, I 

25    believe we have a one-bill supplemental active 


                                                               4848

 1    list.  Can we take that up, please.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 3    Secretary will read the supplemental active list.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 5    1666, Senate Print 8357, by Senator Sanders, an 

 6    act to amend the State Finance Law.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 8    last section.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

10    act shall take effect immediately.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

12    the results.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

14    Calendar 1666, voting in the negative:  

15    Senator Walczyk.

16                 Ayes, 60.  Nays, 1.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

18    is passed.

19                 Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

20    reading of today's supplemental active list.

21                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Go to the 

22    supplemental calendar, please.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

24    Secretary will read.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 


                                                               4849

 1    1674, Assembly Bill Number 136, by 

 2    Assemblymember Paulin, an act to amend the 

 3    Public Health Law.

 4                 SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Lay it 

 6    aside.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 8    1675, Senate Print 426, by Senator Liu, an act to 

 9    amend the Legislative Law.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

11    last section.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

13    act shall take effect immediately.  

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

15    roll.

16                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

18    the results.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

20    Calendar 1575, voting in the negative:  

21    Senator Lanza.

22                 Ayes, 60.  Nays, 1. 

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

24    is passed.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 


                                                               4850

 1    1676, Assembly Bill Number 7040B, by 

 2    Assemblymember Stirpe, an act to amend the 

 3    Alcoholic Beverage Control Law.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 5    last section.

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 5.  This 

 7    act shall take effect on the 180th day after it 

 8    shall have become a law.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

10    roll.

11                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

13    the results.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

16    is passed.

17                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

18    1677, Senate Print 915, by Senator S. Ryan, an 

19    act to amend the Highway Law.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

21    last section.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

23    act shall take effect on the 180th day after it 

24    shall have become a law.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 


                                                               4851

 1    roll.

 2                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 4    the results.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 6    Calendar 1677, voting in the negative are 

 7    Senators Borrello, Chan, Lanza, Mattera, 

 8    Oberacker, Ortt, Rhoads, Skoufis, Stec, Tedisco, 

 9    Walczyk, Weber and Weik.

10                 Ayes, 48.  Nays, 13.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

12    is passed.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

14    1678, Senate Print 1472, by Senator S. Ryan, an 

15    act to amend the Penal Law.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

17    last section.  

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

19    act shall take effect immediately.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

21    roll.

22                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

24    the results.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 


                                                               4852

 1    Calendar 1678, voting in the negative are 

 2    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 

 3    Chan, Helming, Lanza, Mattera, Oberacker, Ortt, 

 4    Palumbo, Rhoads, Rolison, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk, 

 5    Weber and Weik.

 6                 Ayes, 44.  Nays, 17.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 8    is passed.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

10    1680, Senate Print 1891, by Senator Jackson, an 

11    act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Calendar 

13    Number 1679 is high and will be laid aside for 

14    the day.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

16    1680, Senate Print 1891, by Senator Jackson, an 

17    act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

19    last section.

20                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 15.  This 

21    act shall take effect one year after it shall 

22    have become a law.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

24    roll.

25                 (The Secretary called the roll.)


                                                               4853

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 2    the results.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 4    Calendar 1680, voting in the negative are 

 5    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 

 6    Chan, Helming, Martinez, Martins, Mattera, 

 7    Oberacker, Rhoads, Stec, Tedisco, Weber and Weik.

 8                 Ayes, 47.  Nays, 14.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

10    is passed.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

12    1681, Senate Print 1986, by Senator Harckham, an 

13    act to amend the Education Law.

14                 SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Lay it 

16    aside.  

17                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

18    1682, Assembly Bill Number 4938, by 

19    Assemblymember Levenberg, an act to amend the 

20    Labor Law.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

22    last section.  

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

24    act shall take effect immediately.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 


                                                               4854

 1    roll.

 2                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 4    the results.  

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 6    Calendar 1682, voting in the negative:  

 7    Senator Walczyk.

 8                 Ayes, 60.  Nays, 1.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

10    is passed.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

12    1683, Senate Print 3155, by Senator Cooney, an 

13    act to amend the Insurance Law.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

15    last section.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

17    act shall take effect immediately.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

19    roll.

20                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

22    Cooney to explain his vote.

23                 SENATOR COONEY:   Thank you, 

24    Mr. President.  

25                 It's a privilege to speak in support 


                                                               4855

 1    of my legislation which would provide greater 

 2    coverage and access for in vitro fertilization 

 3    here in New York State.  With all the craziness 

 4    and uncertainty happening at the federal level, 

 5    we know it's important more than ever for 

 6    New Yorkers to take the lead when it comes to 

 7    reproductive healthcare options, and this bill 

 8    would do just that.  

 9                 Back in 2019 this Legislature passed 

10    a landmark piece of legislation to require 

11    coverage for three cycles of IVF in cases of 

12    infertility.  But unfortunately, what we have 

13    seen since that legislation first passed is that 

14    a number of healthcare practices and insurance 

15    companies have been requiring the use of all of 

16    those embryos in a cycle before covering the 

17    next -- a situation that is not always viable, 

18    and it delays the process for many parents-to-be.  

19                 When a couple is trying to have a 

20    child, the last thing they want to do is to wait 

21    longer and to risk more potential issues of a 

22    healthy birth down the line.  I'm proud to 

23    sponsor and support this legislation to make sure 

24    that we make these changes in insurance practices 

25    and to create more opportunities for those 


                                                               4856

 1    New Yorkers looking to start a family.  

 2                 I vote aye, Mr. President.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 4    Cooney to be recorded in the affirmative.

 5                 Announce the results.

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 7    Calendar 1683, voting in the negative are 

 8    Senators Borrello, Stec, Tedisco and Walczyk.

 9                 Ayes, 57.  Nays, 4.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

11    is passed.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

13    1684, Senate Print 3820B, by Senator Rivera, an 

14    act to amend the Insurance Law.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

16    last section.

17                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.  This 

18    act shall take effect immediately.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

20    roll.  

21                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

23    the results.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 


                                                               4857

 1    is passed.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 3    1685, Senate Print 4052, by Senator Skoufis, an 

 4    act to amend the Labor Law.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 6    last section.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 8    act shall take effect immediately.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

10    roll.

11                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

13    the results.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

16    is passed.

17                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

18    1686, Senate Print 4230, by Senator Comrie, an 

19    act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

21    last section.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

23    act shall take effect on the first of November.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

25    roll.


                                                               4858

 1                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 3    the results.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 6    is passed.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 8    1687, Senate Print 4497, by Senator Hinchey, an 

 9    act to amend the Insurance Law.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

11    last section.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.  This 

13    act shall take effect immediately.  

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

15    roll.

16                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

18    Hinchey to explain her vote.

19                 SENATOR HINCHEY:   Thank you, 

20    Mr. President.

21                 I rise incredibly excited to vote in 

22    favor of this bill.  Healthcare technology has 

23    come a long way in just the last few years, and 

24    we now have the ability to give people the option 

25    on when they want to start a family and how.  


                                                               4859

 1                 And for many women, the prime time 

 2    to start that family biologically is also the 

 3    prime career years of their life.  And for some 

 4    people they're able to either defer starting a 

 5    family because they either haven't found the 

 6    right partner or they want to focus on work or 

 7    whatever other reason, if they have insurance to 

 8    cover egg freezing.  

 9                 Most people who have that option are 

10    people who either work in big tech companies or 

11    big companies that provide that option, or if 

12    they're incredibly wealthy and have the means to 

13    do it.  But most other people do not have the 

14    ability for regular commercial insurance to cover 

15    this type of fertility preservation.  

16                 And so today, in passing this bill, 

17    which requires commercial insurance to cover the 

18    cost of egg freezing and storage, we are the 

19    first house in the country to actually pass this 

20    kind of coverage.  And as my colleague stated, as 

21    we are watching at the federal government a lot 

22    of uncertainty around what the future of 

23    reproductive healthcare looks like, this bill is 

24    a really big step in ensuring that women will 

25    have the ability to start a family when and how 


                                                               4860

 1    they choose.

 2                 Thank you, Mr. President.  And for 

 3    that, I vote aye.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 5    Hinchey to be recorded in the affirmative.

 6                 Senator Cooney to explain his vote.

 7                 SENATOR COONEY:   Thank you, 

 8    Mr. President.  

 9                 I just want to rise and thank the 

10    bill sponsor, Senator Hinchey, for her leadership 

11    on this historic legislation.  

12                 I think we all have to take a 

13    different look at IVF legislation.  This is 

14    really becoming an equity issue:  Who can have a 

15    family, who cannot have a family.  Who can afford 

16    to have a family, who cannot afford to have a 

17    family.  

18                 This type of legislation the Senate 

19    Majority is moving forward today allows that 

20    conversation to be had by New Yorkers regardless 

21    of their income level.  If they want to have a 

22    family, they should have the right to do so in 

23    our great state, and we're doing that today.

24                 I vote aye, Mr. President.  

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 


                                                               4861

 1    Cooney to be recorded in the affirmative.  

 2                 Announce the results.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 4    Calendar 1687, voting in the negative are 

 5    Senators Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Chan, 

 6    Helming, O'Mara, Ortt, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk and 

 7    Weik.

 8                 Ayes, 51.  Nays, 10.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

10    is passed.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

12    1688, Senate Print 4534, by Senator Skoufis, an 

13    act to amend the Executive Law.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

15    last section.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 5.  This 

17    act shall take effect immediately.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

19    roll.

20                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

22    the results.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

24    Calendar 1688, voting in the negative are 

25    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 


                                                               4862

 1    Chan, Helming, Martins, Mattera, Oberacker, 

 2    O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, Rolison, Stec, 

 3    Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.  

 4                 Ayes, 43.  Nays, 18.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 6    is passed.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 8    1689, Senate Print 4658A, by Senator S. Ryan, an 

 9    act to amend the General Municipal Law.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

11    last section.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.  This 

13    act shall take effect immediately.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

15    roll.

16                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Announce 

18    the results.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

20    Calendar 1689, voting in the negative are 

21    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 

22    Helming, Martinez, Martins, Oberacker, Rhoads, 

23    Rolison, Tedisco, Walczyk and Weik.

24                 Ayes, 49.  Nays, 12. 

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 


                                                               4863

 1    is passed.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 3    1690, Senate Print 4803, by Senator C. Ryan, an 

 4    act to amend the Volunteer Firefighters' Benefit 

 5    Law.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Read the 

 7    last section.

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 9    act shall take effect on the 120th day after it 

10    shall have become a law.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Call the 

12    roll.

13                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Announce 

15    the results.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 

18    is passed.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

20    1691, Assembly Bill Number 1433A, by 

21    Assemblymember Hunter, an act to amend the 

22    Insurance Law.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Read the 

24    last section.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 


                                                               4864

 1    act shall take effect on the 180th day after it 

 2    shall have become a law.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Call the 

 4    roll.

 5                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Announce 

 7    the results.

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 

10    is passed.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

12    1692, Senate Print 6150, by Senator Parker, an 

13    act to amend the Banking Law.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Read the 

15    last section.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

17    act shall take effect on the 90th day after it 

18    shall have become a law.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Call the 

20    roll.

21                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Announce 

23    the results.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 


                                                               4865

 1    is passed.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 3    1693, Senate Print 6155A, by Senator Bailey, an 

 4    act to amend the Education Law.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Read the 

 6    last section.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 8    act shall take effect immediately.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Call the 

10    roll.

11                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

13    Bailey to explain his vote.

14                 SENATOR BAILEY:   Thank you, 

15    Madam President.  

16                 So a few years back we created 

17    something I thought was excellent.  We created 

18    something called the Excelsior Scholarship, which 

19    allowed talented and bright students to be able 

20    to pursue an education, a higher education, even 

21    if they didn't make a lot of money and if their 

22    parents weren't as well off.  

23                 And this has an income level, right?  

24    But what happens if you have a hardworking parent 

25    or parents and they decide to go get a little bit 


                                                               4866

 1    more overtime to make sure that they're helping 

 2    their family out, that they're taking care of 

 3    things in the community and in their home?  

 4                 Well, that happened in my community, 

 5    and one of my daughter's teachers, she went 

 6    through this scenario and she explained it to me, 

 7    she had gone and taught summer school and made a 

 8    couple of hundred dollars more, but it 

 9    disqualified her son from the Excelsior 

10    Scholarship.  

11                 This is not something that should be 

12    happening.  We're not talking about a raise, a 

13    20 percent raise or a 30 percent raise, which I'm 

14    sure anybody would be happy to get, but we're 

15    talking about a couple of hundred dollars from 

16    teaching in the summer.  That should not be a 

17    disqualifying factor for a young person to be 

18    able to obtain their education.

19                 So I'm glad we're starting this out 

20    today, because this allows for a modest increase 

21    in your income.  Again, these aren't major 

22    raises.  Modest increase so that, most 

23    importantly, so you're not afraid to take a 

24    little bit of extra work and your family will not 

25    suffer if that happens.  


                                                               4867

 1                 I am proud to sponsor this 

 2    legislation.  I proudly vote aye, 

 3    Madam President.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 5    Bailey to be recorded in the affirmative.

 6                 Announce the results.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 8    Calendar 1693, voting in the negative are 

 9    Senators Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Lanza, Martins, 

10    Ortt, Rhoads, Walczyk and Weik.

11                 Ayes, 54.  Nays, 7.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 

13    is passed.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

15    1694, Senate Print 6166, by Senator S. Ryan, an 

16    act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Read the 

18    last section.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

20    act shall take effect immediately.  

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Call the 

22    roll.

23                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Announce 

25    the results.


                                                               4868

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 2    Calendar 1694, Senators voting in the negative:  

 3    Senator Weik.

 4                 Ayes, 60.  Nays, 1.  Oh, also 

 5    Senator Mayer.

 6                 Ayes, 59.  Nays, 2.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 

 8    is passed.

 9                 Calendar Number 1695 is high and 

10    will be laid aside for the day.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

12    1696, Senate Print 6334, by Senator Fahy, an act 

13    to amend the Education Law.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Read the 

15    last section.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

17    act shall take effect 18 months after it shall 

18    have because a law.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Call the 

20    roll.

21                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Announce 

23    the results.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

25    Calendar 696, voting in the negative are 


                                                               4869

 1    Senators Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Martins and 

 2    Walczyk.

 3                 Ayes, 58.  Nays, 3.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 

 5    is passed.

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 7    1697, Assembly Bill Number 2739, by 

 8    Assemblymember Cruz, an act to amend the 

 9    Real Property Law.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

11    last section.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

13    act shall take effect immediately.  

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

15    roll.

16                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

18    the results.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

20    Calendar 1697, voting in the negative:  

21    Senator Rhoads.  

22                 Ayes, 60.  Nays, 1.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

24    is passed.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 


                                                               4870

 1    1698, Senate Print 6640, by Senator Gounardes, an 

 2    act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 

 3    Law.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 5    last section.

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

 7    act shall take effect immediately.  

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 9    roll.

10                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

12    the results.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

15    is passed.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

17    1699, Senate Print 6736A, by Senator Fahy, an act 

18    to amend the Social Services Law.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

20    last section.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

22    act shall take effect on the first of April.  

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

24    roll.

25                 (The Secretary called the roll.)


                                                               4871

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 2    the results.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 5    is passed.

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 7    1700, Senate Print 7007, by Senator Bynoe, an act 

 8    to amend the General Business Law.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

10    last section.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.  This 

12    act shall take effect on the 90th day after it 

13    shall have become a law.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

15    roll.

16                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

18    the results.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

20    Calendar 1700, voting in the negative are 

21    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 

22    Chan, Gallivan, Helming, Lanza, Oberacker, 

23    O'Mara, Ortt, Rhoads, Rolison, Stec, Walczyk and 

24    Weik.

25                 Ayes, 46.  Nays, 15.


                                                               4872

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 2    is passed.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 4    1701, Senate Print 7032, by Senator Sepúlveda, an 

 5    act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

 6                 SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Lay it 

 8    aside.  

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

10    1702, Senate Print Number 7191, by 

11    Senator Scarcella-Spanton, an act to amend the 

12    Vehicle and Traffic Law.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

14    last section.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

16    act shall take effect on the 120th day after it 

17    shall have become a law.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

19    roll.

20                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

22    the results.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

25    is passed.


                                                               4873

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 2    1703, Senate Print 7422A, by 

 3    Senator Stewart-Cousins, an act to amend the 

 4    Vehicle and Traffic Law.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 6    last section.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

 8    act shall take effect immediately.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

10    roll.

11                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

13    the results.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

15    Calendar 1703, voting in the negative are 

16    Senators Helming, Martinez, Martins, Walczyk and 

17    Weik.  

18                 Ayes, 56.  Nays, 5.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

20    is passed.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

22    1704, Assembly Bill Number 8465, by 

23    Assemblymember Otis, an act to amend the 

24    Labor Law.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 


                                                               4874

 1    last section.  

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 3    act shall take effect immediately.  

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 5    roll.

 6                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 8    the results.

 9                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

10    Calendar 1704, voting in the negative are 

11    Senators Gallivan, Hinchey, Oberacker, Rhoads, 

12    Stec and Walczyk.

13                 Ayes, 55.  Nays, 6.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

15    is passed.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

17    1705, Assembly Bill Number 2168, by 

18    Assemblymember Paulin, an act to amend the 

19    Public Health Law.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

21    last section.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

23    act shall take effect on the 180th day after it 

24    shall have become a law.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 


                                                               4875

 1    roll.

 2                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

 4    the results.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 7    is passed.

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 9    1706, Senate Print 7642, by Senator Comrie, an 

10    act to amend the Public Health Law.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

12    last section.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

14    act shall take effect on the first of January.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

16    roll.

17                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

19    the results.  

20                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

22    is passed.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

24    1707, Senate Print 7680A, by Senator Serrano, an 

25    act to amend the Parks, Recreation and Historic 


                                                               4876

 1    Preservation Law.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 3    last section.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 5    act shall take effect immediately.  

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 7    roll.

 8                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

10    the results.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

13    is passed.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

15    1708, Senate Print 7717, by Senator Cooney, an 

16    act to amend the General Business Law.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

18    last section.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

20    act shall take effect immediately.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

22    roll.

23                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

24                 SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Lay it 


                                                               4877

 1    aside.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 3    1709, Senate Print 7731, by Senator Webb, an act 

 4    to amend the Insurance Law.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

 6    last section.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.  This 

 8    act shall take effect on the 120th day after it 

 9    shall have become a law.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

11    roll.

12                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

14    Webb to explain her vote.

15                 SENATOR WEBB:   Thank you, 

16    Mr. President.  I rise to explain my vote on this 

17    important legislation.  

18                 What this does is that it amends the 

19    Insurance Law to ensure that a new mother and 

20    their infant are not separated in the event that 

21    a newborn infant has a medical issue regarding 

22    transport to a hospital that is able to provide 

23    specialized care.

24                 Despite the importance of a birthing 

25    parent being near their newborn during this time, 


                                                               4878

 1    insurance coverage for the transfer of the 

 2    hospitalization of the hospitalized birthing 

 3    parent is not guaranteed.  Physicians who provide 

 4    maternity care must receive approval from an 

 5    insurance company for the transfer to be covered.

 6                 And waiting for approval and 

 7    potentially being denied coverage for the 

 8    transfer creates time-consuming barriers that 

 9    impedes care and also creates additional stress.

10                 This legislation ensures a birthing 

11    parent is able to fully participate in the 

12    healthcare of their new child and that a birthing 

13    parent and their newborn do not miss out on 

14    important opportunities for bonding and 

15    skin-to-skin contact just because of lack of 

16    insurance coverage for the hospital transfer of a 

17    birthing parent.

18                 I proudly vote aye, and I encourage 

19    my colleagues to do the same.

20                 Thank you, Madam President.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

22    Webb to be recorded in the affirmative.  

23                 Senator Martins to explain his vote.

24                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Thank you, 

25    Madam President.  


                                                               4879

 1                 You know, I want to first thank the 

 2    sponsor for this bill.  It is so important that a 

 3    mother have the opportunity to spend time with 

 4    her child.  And certainly, you know, economics 

 5    should not come into play when it comes to 

 6    deciding how to transport a baby with her mother.  

 7    That's really -- or his or her mother.  

 8                 That's what this is all about.  It's 

 9    important from a public policy standpoint that we 

10    keep mothers with their child every chance we can 

11    get, and it's a small cost to pay.  I'll be 

12    voting aye.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

14    Martins to be recorded in the affirmative.

15                 Announce the results.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

18    is passed.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

20    1710, Senate Print 7800, by Senator Harckham, an 

21    act to amend the Public Officers Law.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

23    last section.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

25    act shall take effect immediately.


                                                               4880

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

 2    roll.

 3                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

 5    the results.

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 7    Calendar 1710, voting in the negative:  

 8    Senator Weik.

 9                 Ayes, 60.  Nays, 1.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

11    is passed.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

13    1711, Senate Print 7801, by Senator Harckham, an 

14    act to amend the Public Officers Law.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

16    last section.

17                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

18    act shall take effect immediately.  

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

20    roll.

21                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

23    the results.  

24                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

25    Calendar 1711, voting in the negative:  


                                                               4881

 1    Senator Weik.

 2                 Ayes, 60.  Nays, 1.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

 4    is passed.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 6    1712, Senate Print Number 7882, by 

 7    Senator Hoylman-Sigal, an act to amend the 

 8    General Business Law.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

10    last section.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

12    act shall take effect on the 60th day after it 

13    shall have become a law.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

15    roll.

16                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

18    the results.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

20    Calendar 1712, voting in the negative are 

21    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 

22    Chan, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Lanza, Martins, 

23    Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, 

24    Rhoads, Rolison, C. Ryan, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk, 

25    Weber and Weik.


                                                               4882

 1                 Ayes, 39.  Nays, 22.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

 3    is passed.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 5    1713, Assembly Bill Number 8279, by 

 6    Assemblymember Kassay, an act relating to 

 7    permitting the Setauket Fire District and 

 8    Stony Brook Fire District to enter into contracts 

 9    with the State University of New York at 

10    Stony Brook.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

12    last section.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

14    act shall take effect on the first of January.  

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

16    roll.

17                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

19    the results.

20                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

22    is passed.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

24    1714, Senate Print 7984, by Senator Fernandez, an 

25    act to amend the Social Services Law.


                                                               4883

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

 2    last section.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 4    act shall take effect immediately.  

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

 6    roll.

 7                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

 9    the results.

10                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

11    Calendar 1714, voting in the negative are 

12    Senators Martins and Walczyk.

13                 Ayes, 59.  Nays, 2.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

15    is passed.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

17    1715, Senate Print 8059, by Senator Bailey, an 

18    act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

20    last section.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

22    act shall take effect one year after it shall 

23    have become a law.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

25    roll.


                                                               4884

 1                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 3    Bailey to explain his vote.

 4                 SENATOR BAILEY:   Thank you, 

 5    Madam President.  

 6                 So around the state there were a few 

 7    sheriff's offices in a few localities that were 

 8    doing something really ingenious in advance of 

 9    what we've called the Blue Envelope Program.  

10    This is what happens when there are individuals 

11    who are neurodivergent, that may have autism 

12    spectrum syndrome or a host of other things 

13    happening.  And they can place their license and 

14    registration inside a blue envelope and, in the 

15    event of a traffic stop, they hand that blue 

16    envelope over to the officer that's making the 

17    stop.  

18                 When at officer makes the stop and 

19    they see that blue envelope, they realize that 

20    the individual that's driving, you know, is a 

21    part of that community that I mentioned earlier.  

22    So it lessens the tension, it decreases the 

23    possibility for possible infractions and 

24    unfortunate incidents.  

25                 And this is supported not just by 


                                                               4885

 1    the sheriffs, but it's also supported by the 

 2    troopers.  And I want to thank the troopers for 

 3    supporting this piece of legislation.  And I 

 4    think this is one of these moments that we can 

 5    point at where we're saying we want everybody to 

 6    have equal opportunities.  Just because you may 

 7    have a disability or you may be what they call 

 8    neurodivergent does not mean you cannot do 

 9    everything else that anybody else can do.  

10                 So this allows you to be able to 

11    drive and get places by yourself without fear of 

12    having a traffic stop go awry.  And so it 

13    protects the safety of the driver as well as the 

14    officer.  I'm glad to support it and hope my 

15    colleagues do the same.  

16                 I'll be voting aye, Madam President.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

18    Bailey to be recorded in the affirmative.

19                 Announce the results.

20                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

22    is passed.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

24    1716, Senate Print 8082, by Senator Brouk, an act 

25    to amend the Mental Hygiene Law.


                                                               4886

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

 2    last section.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

 4    act shall take effect immediately.  

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

 6    roll.  

 7                 (The Secretary called the roll.) 

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

 9    the results.

10                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

12    is passed.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

14    1717, Senate Print 8150, by Senator Bynoe, an act 

15    to amend the Veterans' Services Law.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

17    last section.

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 10.  This 

19    act shall take effect on the 180th day after it 

20    shall have become a law.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

22    roll.

23                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

25    the results.


                                                               4887

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

 3    is passed.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 5    1718, Senate Print 8207, by Senator Jackson, an 

 6    act to amend the Retirement and Social Security 

 7    Law.  

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

 9    last section.

10                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 6.  This 

11    act shall take effect immediately.  

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

13    roll.

14                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

16    the results.

17                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

19    is passed.

20                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

21    1719, Senate Print 8256, by Senator Sutton, an 

22    act to amend the Administrative Code of the City 

23    of New York.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

25    last section.


                                                               4888

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 2    act shall take effect immediately.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

 4    roll.  

 5                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

 7    the results.

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

10    is passed.  

11                 Senator Gianaris.

12                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

13    apparently that was Senator Sutton's first bill 

14    to pass the Senate.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   

16    Congratulations, Senator Sutton. 

17                 (Standing ovation.) 

18                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Now we'll take 

19    up the second Senator Sutton bill to pass the 

20    Senate.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Okay.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

23    1720, Senate Print 8257, by Senator Sutton, an 

24    act directing the Department of Health to 

25    establish an alternative payment methodology for 


                                                               4889

 1    Federally Qualified Health Centers.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

 3    last section.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 5    act shall take effect immediately.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

 7    roll.

 8                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

10    the results.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

13    is passed.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

15    1721, Senate Print Number 8271, by 

16    Senator Stewart-Cousins, an act to amend in 

17    relation to authorizing the City of Yonkers to 

18    alienate and discontinue the use of certain 

19    parklands.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   There's 

21    a home-rule message at the desk.

22                 Read the last section.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 7.  This 

24    act shall take effect immediately.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 


                                                               4890

 1    roll.

 2                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

 4    the results.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

 7    is passed.

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 9    1722, Assembly Bill Number 7563, by 

10    Assemblymember McDonald, an act to amend the 

11    Criminal Procedure Law.  

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

13    last section.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

15    act shall take effect immediately.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

17    roll.

18                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

20    the results.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

23    is passed.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

25    1723, Senate Print Number 8320, by 


                                                               4891

 1    Senator Hoylman-Sigal, an act to amend the 

 2    Court of Claims Act.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

 4    last section.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 6    act shall take effect immediately.  

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

 8    roll.

 9                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

11    the results.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

13    Calendar 1723, voting in the negative are 

14    Senators Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Rhoads, Walczyk 

15    and Weik.

16                 Ayes, 57.  Nays, 4.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

18    is passed.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

20    1724, Senate Print 8334, by Senator Gounardes, an 

21    act to amend the Insurance Law.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

23    last section.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 5.  This 

25    act shall take effect on the first of January.  


                                                               4892

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

 2    roll.

 3                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 5    Gounardes to explain his vote.

 6                 SENATOR GOUNARDES:   Thank you, 

 7    Madam President.

 8                 Rarely do I think a bill has been 

 9    more timely before us for consideration in this 

10    chamber.  What this bill would do is it would 

11    allow and give authority to the Insurance 

12    Commissioner, in consultation with the Health 

13    Commissioner, to require in-state insurers to 

14    cover the cost of the COVID vaccine.  

15                 Now, this was an idea that was 

16    brought to me by my wife, actually, a couple of 

17    weeks ago, on the heels of the news that the HHS 

18    Secretary, Robert Kennedy, Jr., was recommending 

19    that COVID coverage no longer be mandated by the 

20    CDC for pregnant mothers and young children.  

21                 Now, this of course caused a huge 

22    uproar in the medical community because we know 

23    that COVID can be an incredibly high-risk illness 

24    for women who are pregnant and young children in 

25    particular.  And there was significant concern 


                                                               4893

 1    that if the CDC's Advisory Committee on 

 2    Immunization Practices followed the Secretary's 

 3    request and delisted COVID as a covered 

 4    vaccine -- which would have required the vaccine 

 5    to be covered under the Affordable Care Act -- it 

 6    would mean that millions of people who wanted to 

 7    get the vaccine would not be able to have it 

 8    covered by their insurance.

 9                 Now, thankfully, two weeks ago the 

10    CDC declined to follow Secretary Kennedy's 

11    directive.  But just an hour and a half ago, we 

12    saw the news break just this evening that 

13    Secretary Kennedy has removed all of the members 

14    of the CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization 

15    Practices, thereby paving the way to put in his 

16    own appointees, who we believe will now say that 

17    the COVID vaccine should not be covered by 

18    insurance companies for those who choose to 

19    receive it, particularly pregnant women and young 

20    children.

21                 We are actually now in a position 

22    where we can protect ourselves here in New York 

23    State by giving this authority to DFS and the 

24    Health Commissioner to, on their own, just like 

25    they have the authority for other vaccine series, 


                                                               4894

 1    require that vaccines are covered by insurance 

 2    companies in the State of New York.  

 3                 I'm thankful, I know we're all 

 4    thankful to our families for letting us come up 

 5    here.  I'm particularly thankful to my wife for 

 6    giving me this idea.  And it's one of personal 

 7    salience for my family because we are expecting 

 8    our third and obviously are very concerned that 

 9    if coverage is no longer mandated or covered, it 

10    could have a significant impact not just for our 

11    family but for countless others across the state.  

12                 And so for those reasons I vote aye.  

13    Thank you.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

15    Gounardes to be recorded in the affirmative.

16                 Announce the results.  

17                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

18    Calendar 1724, voting in the negative are 

19    Senators Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 

20    Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Rhoads, Walczyk 

21    and Weik.

22                 Ayes, 52.  Nays, 9.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

24    is passed.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 


                                                               4895

 1    1725, Senate Print 8338, by Senator Mayer, an act 

 2    to amend the Executive Law.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

 4    last section.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 6    act shall take effect immediately.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

 8    roll.

 9                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

11    Mayer to explain her vote.

12                 SENATOR MAYER:   Thank you, 

13    Madam President.  

14                 I rise to proudly vote aye on this 

15    bill to codify disparate impact analysis for 

16    workplace discrimination cases under New York's 

17    Human Rights Law.  

18                 New York has a proud and long 

19    tradition of robust and expansive 

20    antidiscrimination protection, especially in the 

21    workplace.  However, it's threatened by the 

22    analysis and the efforts of the Trump 

23    administration to get rid of this very 

24    traditional disparate impact analysis in 

25    analyzing whether a violation of law has 


                                                               4896

 1    occurred.

 2                 In April 2025 the Trump 

 3    administration issued an executive order 

 4    dubiously finding disparate impact analysis to be 

 5    unconstitutional, and declaring that it's now the 

 6    policy of the federal government to eliminate the 

 7    use of disparate impact analysis to the fullest 

 8    extent possible.  Despite this shaky legal 

 9    ground, the Trump administration has quickly 

10    moved to end civil rights cases based on this 

11    disparate impact analysis.  

12                 This bill is necessary to ensure 

13    that New York's Human Rights Law accepts and 

14    embodies disparate impact analysis for employment 

15    discrimination cases, ensuring plaintiffs can 

16    continue to bring disparate impact cases under 

17    the Human Rights Law and affirming New York's 

18    longstanding commitment to fighting 

19    discrimination in employment and in our society 

20    at large.

21                 I vote aye.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

23    Mayer to be recorded in the affirmative.

24                 Announce the results.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 


                                                               4897

 1    Calendar 1725, voting in the negative are 

 2    Senators Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Lanza and 

 3    Walczyk.

 4                 Ayes, 58.  Nays, 3.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

 6    is passed.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 8    1726, Senate Print 8384, by Senator Jackson, an 

 9    act to amend the Executive Law.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

11    last section.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 26.  This 

13    act shall take effect immediately.  

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

15    roll.

16                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

18    the results.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

21    is passed.

22                 Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

23    reading of the supplemental calendar.

24                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you, 

25    Madam President.


                                                               4898

 1                 We're going to move on now to the 

 2    controversial calendar.  

 3                 We're going to begin with 

 4    Calendar Number 1674, by Senator Hoylman-Sigal.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

 6    Secretary will ring the bell.

 7                 The Secretary will read.

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 9    1674, Assembly Bill Number 136, by 

10    Assemblymember Paulin, an act to amend the 

11    Public Health Law.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

13    Borrello, why do you rise?

14                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you, 

15    Madam President.  Would the sponsor yield for a 

16    question.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Will the 

18    sponsor yield?

19                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

21    sponsor yields.  

22                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Through you, 

23    Madam President.  New York State has once again 

24    proposed a law that goes beyond any other law 

25    when it comes to this particular -- assisted 


                                                               4899

 1    suicide.  

 2                 So my first question is, why would 

 3    New York propose a law for something so serious 

 4    that doesn't require a waiting period before 

 5    folks that are choosing to end their life, 

 6    potentially, can receive those deadly drugs?

 7                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Thank you, 

 8    Madam President, and to my colleague.  

 9                 Well, first let's frame this issue, 

10    if you don't mind, Senator, that medical aid in 

11    dying, which is what we call it, MAID, will allow 

12    adults who have been given a terminal prognosis 

13    of six months or fewer to live, to request 

14    self-administered life-ending medication after 

15    approval.

16                 They have to make these decisions 

17    voluntarily, be capable of making an informed 

18    decision, and have the six-month diagnosis due to 

19    an incurable and irreversible illness.

20                 So I like to think about it as it's 

21    not so much about ending a person's life but 

22    shortening their deaths, because they have been 

23    granted, given, that terminal prognosis.

24                 And your question specifically is 

25    about waiting periods and why we don't include 


                                                               4900

 1    one in New York.  And let me tell you that I 

 2    think, in effect, we do have a waiting period.  

 3    It's built in, because it takes a number of days 

 4    and weeks to actually go through the processes as 

 5    outlined in the bill.

 6                 It's a lengthy process.  You have to 

 7    find a consulting physician.  You have to make 

 8    the oral and written request.  And then you have 

 9    to find a pharmacy to dispense the medication.  

10    That can take several weeks in and of itself.  

11                 And then I'll also add that there 

12    isn't currently waiting periods for ending 

13    life-sustaining treatment that already exist, 

14    such as dialysis.  

15                 And I'll also add that the process 

16    is so lengthy that a number of states have 

17    disbanded it or are considering disbanding it.  

18    There are court challenges to waiting periods.  

19    And in California, where medical aid in dying 

20    exists, fully one-third of terminally ill 

21    patients die before completing the paperwork.

22                 So states that have had waiting 

23    periods are already looking to waive them in 

24    certain instances or roll them back completely, 

25    California and Oregon being two good examples.  


                                                               4901

 1                 So the waiting period we think is 

 2    built in.

 3                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

 4    will the sponsor continue to yield.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 6    sponsor yield? 

 7                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 9    sponsor yields.

10                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So you're saying 

11    that someone can receive a prescription, go to 

12    the pharmacy and get those deadly drugs the same 

13    day, with no waiting period, is that correct?

14                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

15    you, Mr. President.  The question being it's not 

16    a one, two, three-step process by any means.  You 

17    have to, as I've said earlier, find a consulting 

18    physician for your attending physician, and then 

19    go from there through the processes, which can 

20    take weeks.

21                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

22    will the sponsor continue to yield.  

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

24    sponsor yield?

25                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.


                                                               4902

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 2    sponsor yields.

 3                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Yes, I 

 4    understand that there's a process.  But at the 

 5    end, someone makes a decision.  The decision is I 

 6    would like that prescription.  That's the day, in 

 7    my opinion, that they've decided that they are 

 8    willing to potentially take their own life.  

 9                 So there's no waiting period from 

10    when they make that decision and get that 

11    prescription until they are able to get those 

12    deadly drugs into their hands.  Is that correct?

13                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   That's 

14    correct.  

15                 But if I could add.  So through you, 

16    Mr. President, it's long established in our state 

17    laws that no healthcare decisions, including 

18    withholding and withdrawing life-sustaining 

19    treatments, require a waiting period.  The 

20    procedures in place for medical aid in dying -- 

21    written requests, two physician evaluations, 

22    witness requirements -- have that time already 

23    built in.

24                 There just isn't any justification, 

25    when we wrote this bill, for forcing a suffering 


                                                               4903

 1    patient to suffer any longer.  And that's what 

 2    this is fundamentally about, is not about 

 3    hastening death but ending suffering.

 4                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

 5    will the sponsor continue to yield.  

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 7    sponsor yield? 

 8                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

10    sponsor yields.  

11                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Look, I 

12    understand the empathy for someone who is -- you 

13    know, has a terminal disease.  But at the end of 

14    the day this is an irreversible decision, 

15    irreversible, if you decided to end your life.  

16                 So in New York State, if you buy a 

17    car you have three days to take it back.  If you 

18    book a flight, you have 24 hours to cancel it.  

19    So we can give people time to change their mind 

20    about a flight they've booked, but not about 

21    whether or not they're going to kill themselves, 

22    is that correct?  

23                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

24    you, Mr. President.  Well, our bill currently 

25    states that physicians do have the obligation to 


                                                               4904

 1    tell the patient that they can in fact change 

 2    their mind.

 3                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Will the sponsor 

 4    continue to yield.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 6    sponsor yield?

 7                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 9    sponsor yields.  

10                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Is there any 

11    requirement that that physician have any history 

12    with that patient?  In other words, could they 

13    just have never done anything but prescribe this 

14    deadly medication to them?  Do they have to have 

15    had history with that patient, with their care, 

16    for this disease or any -- or just their care in 

17    general?

18                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

19    you, Mr. President, just to go back to your -- 

20    the Section 2899-g:  "Right to rescind request; 

21    requirement to offer opportunity to rescind.  A 

22    patient may at any time rescind the request for 

23    medication under this article without regard to 

24    the patient's decision-making capacity."  

25                 Just wanted to make sure that you 


                                                               4905

 1    knew that that's there.

 2                 And your question -- I'm sorry.  

 3                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So does a doctor 

 4    have to have any history with that patient that 

 5    they will be prescribing these deadly drugs for?  

 6    Can a person walk in and see that consultant 

 7    physician, the second opinion, whatever you -- 

 8    and have absolutely no medical history with that 

 9    particular patient?

10                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

11    you, Mr. President.  Well, one assumes that the 

12    attending physician does in fact have a 

13    relationship with the patient to the extent that 

14    he or she are able to make the determination that 

15    the patient is of sound mind, has met the 

16    eligibility requirements for age, has a terminal 

17    illness of six months or fewer.  

18                 And so through that examination -- 

19    and we obviously entrust physicians to make those 

20    determinations every single day.  One would hope 

21    and expect that a physician will fulfill their 

22    responsibilities in that regard.

23                 This is premised on physicians 

24    acting in accordance with the standards of 

25    professional medical ethics.


                                                               4906

 1                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

 2    will the sponsor continue to yield?

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 4    sponsor yield?

 5                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 7    sponsor yields.

 8                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   You talk about 

 9    someone having a diagnosis of a terminal illness 

10    and being given the prediction of six months or 

11    less to live.  Do you know what percentage of 

12    those doctor predictions are correct?  

13                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Well, we 

14    have Oregon as a predictor --

15                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   That's not my 

16    question.  When a doctor says you have six months 

17    to live, how frequently is that six-month 

18    prediction correct?

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

20    Borrello, in the future if we could direct all 

21    comments through the chair.

22                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Sorry.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   I 

24    understand this is a passionate subject, but if 

25    we could please direct all debate through the 


                                                               4907

 1    chair, I'd appreciate it.

 2                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Yes.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

 4    you, Senator Borrello.

 5                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 6    you, Mr. President.  The studies show -- and we 

 7    obviously don't have any data in New York.  But 

 8    the studies that have been collected in the 

 9    11 states, now 11 -- it was 10.  Earlier this 

10    week it's now 11, plus the District of 

11    Columbia -- show that in fact those estimations 

12    by physicians on length of term of life to live 

13    after an illness are actually over-predictors.  

14                 In other words, physicians predict, 

15    according to the statistics, 85 percent longer 

16    than a patient in fact has to live.  So the 

17    reality shows it's just the opposite.

18                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

19    will the sponsor continue to yield.  

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

21    sponsor yield? 

22                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

24    sponsor yields.

25                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Well, my 


                                                               4908

 1    question was on accuracy, and the answer is 

 2    20 percent.  That means that when doctors give 

 3    someone with a terminal illness a prediction of 

 4    how long that they have left to live, they're 

 5    only right 20 percent of the time.  Does that 

 6    sound like a good percentage to you?

 7                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 8    you, Mr. President.  I'm looking at a study by 

 9    the University of Chicago, where researchers of 

10    terminally ill patients showed that 83 percent of 

11    life expectancies were either overestimates or 

12    accurate.  

13                 Another study reported that 

14    85 percent of inaccurate prognoses for patients 

15    in palliative care were also overestimates.

16                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

17    will the sponsor continue to yield.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

19    sponsor yield?

20                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

22    sponsor yields.

23                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So we can both 

24    agree that they're not accurate.  That's 

25    basically what you're saying.  I might be saying 


                                                               4909

 1    differently.  But at the end of the day those 

 2    predictors, which are the determination as to 

 3    whether or not someone can receive these deadly 

 4    drugs, are horribly inaccurate, correct?

 5                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 6    you, Mr. President.  I mean, look, I think a 

 7    physician predicting the length of life for a 

 8    patient is obviously an extremely difficult task.  

 9                 I think we should be reassured, 

10    though, that physicians are not in the main 

11    suggesting that patients have less time to live 

12    than they in fact do.  It's the opposite.  So I 

13    would rely on these statistics in that regard.

14                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

15    will the sponsor continue to yield?  

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

17    sponsor yield? 

18                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

20    sponsor yields.

21                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Let's move on.  

22                 So we're talking about deadly 

23    medicine that is being handed over to someone and 

24    then they are just going to leave the pharmacy or 

25    whatever.  What is this bill's prescription, if 


                                                               4910

 1    you will, for the chain of custody for that 

 2    deadly medicine?  What happens?

 3                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 4    you, Mr. President.  The disposal of the medicine 

 5    is specified in the bill, and I will reference 

 6    you where that is.  

 7                 But while we're looking for it, I 

 8    will say that our shelves and our cabinets in our 

 9    apartments and homes have a lot of 

10    dangerous-to-deadly medication.  Certainly a 

11    bottle of aspirin can be fatal if the dose is 

12    such that it can cause harm.  There are a 

13    multitude of household products probably in your 

14    garage, Senator, that also could cause death.

15                 But we are mindful of this concern.  

16    So Section 2899-o discusses safe disposal of 

17    unused medicine.  (Reading.)  A person who has 

18    custody or control of any unused medication 

19    prescribed under this article after the death of 

20    the qualified individual shall personally deliver 

21    the unused medication for disposal to the nearest 

22    qualified facility that properly disposes of 

23    controlled substances, or shall dispose of it by 

24    lawful means in accordance with regulations made 

25    by the commissioner.


                                                               4911

 1                 So there will be future regulations 

 2    to specify further the chain of custody, as you 

 3    put it, Senator.

 4                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

 5    will the sponsor continue to yield? 

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 7    sponsor yield? 

 8                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

10    sponsor yields.

11                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Well, that all 

12    sounds nice.  But what in this bill is actually 

13    requiring someone, under any kind of penalty, to 

14    actually ensure that those deadly drugs, if 

15    they're not used, especially, get taken care of 

16    properly?  We're not talking about disposing of 

17    old motor oil here.  We're talking about medicine 

18    that can kill people.  

19                 There is no actual I guess 

20    responsibility, whether it be a state agency, 

21    doctor, you know, healthcare professional of any 

22    kind, to ensure and monitor that that drug is 

23    being handled properly.  So where -- what in this 

24    bill would prevent that from being essentially 

25    misplaced, mishandled or misused?


                                                               4912

 1                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 2    you, Mr. President.  Again, please refer to 

 3    Section 2899-o.  But -- it's there, Senator.  

 4                 But let me also add that in -- you 

 5    know, in the 30 years that -- it's 27 years, I 

 6    believe, specifically -- that medical aid in 

 7    dying has been legal in the United States, there 

 8    hasn't been a single case, not a single case of 

 9    medication falling into the wrong hands.  

10                 That tells you something about the 

11    chain-of-custody concerns, the practices that 

12    have been well established as New York considers 

13    becoming State Number 12.  We've worked it out, 

14    thanks to our sister states who have taken the 

15    path before us.

16                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

17    will the sponsor continue to yield.  

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

19    sponsor yield? 

20                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

22    sponsor yields.

23                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   That all sounds 

24    nice.  But at the beginning of this debate I 

25    pointed out the fact that once again New York has 


                                                               4913

 1    crafted a law that goes far beyond any other law.  

 2    This law will be more progressive or whatever you 

 3    want to call it.  You yourself said we have to 

 4    remove the barriers.  We can't even have a 

 5    waiting period.  People have to be able to 

 6    immediately get that medication and take it if 

 7    they want it.  

 8                 So I discount what you've said 

 9    about, you know, because it hasn't somewhere 

10    else, it hasn't happened here.  

11                 Why wouldn't we -- this is the 

12    question.  Why wouldn't we have this being done 

13    by medical professionals in a controlled 

14    environment like a hospital or a hospice center?  

15    Why would we allow these deadly drugs to be taken 

16    home and with no oversight whatsoever by any 

17    medical professional?  

18                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

19    you, Mr. President.  Well, thank you for 

20    mentioning hospice, because that is a good 

21    example to raise in terms of the medication and 

22    the chain of custody.  

23                 There are thousands of people with 

24    terminal illnesses currently on home hospice 

25    care, in the comfort of their homes with their 


                                                               4914

 1    family members and other loved ones.  And there 

 2    are a huge number of opiate medications in 

 3    connection with that hospice treatment.

 4                 So we're looking at the same 

 5    protocols that handle -- that apply to the 

 6    handling and return of those medications.  We are 

 7    applying those same protocols to the unused 

 8    medical-aid-in-dying medications.  

 9                 So we've already done it with 

10    hospice.  Other states have done it with medical 

11    aid in dying.  So we aren't reinventing the 

12    wheel.  We're following a standard practice that 

13    has made this process quite secure, based on 

14    evidence and practice.

15                 And specifically -- thank you, 

16    Senator -- why not do this in a hospital?

17                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Yes.

18                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Well, that 

19    certainly could be the option of patient if he or 

20    she chose.  

21                 But we do think, and through 

22    experience, that the home setting is the setting 

23    that most patients prefer.  And when somebody is 

24    choosing to end their life peacefully because 

25    they have been given a terminal diagnosis, I 


                                                               4915

 1    think we all want what's best for them in their 

 2    personal capacity of decision-making.

 3                 And I think it would be a bridge too 

 4    far to impose those types of rules and 

 5    regulations on a suffering patient.  We don't 

 6    impose them on patients in hospice care.  We 

 7    shouldn't impose them on patients seeking medical 

 8    aid in dying.

 9                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

10    will the sponsor continue to yield.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

12    sponsor yield?

13                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

15    sponsor yields.

16                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   When you talk 

17    about hospice, end-of-life care, the goal is to 

18    make people comfortable.  It's not to prematurely 

19    end their life.  There's a big difference between 

20    hospice care and someone who's going to end their 

21    life voluntarily -- on their own, potentially.  

22                 So why would we not require that 

23    these drugs be in a controlled environment with 

24    professionals that can actually ensure that this 

25    is done properly?  Why wouldn't that simple 


                                                               4916

 1    requirement be made?

 2                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   To have 

 3    a -- I'm sorry -- 

 4                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   To have this in 

 5    a controlled environment with healthcare 

 6    professionals, whether it be in a hospital, a 

 7    hospice care or home care with a medical 

 8    professional there to ensure that these drugs are 

 9    properly handled.  

10                 Why wouldn't we make that simple 

11    amendment that would improve the safety of this 

12    bill?

13                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

14    you, Mr. President.  I mean, once again, to my 

15    colleague, the experience and data show that 

16    medical aid in dying at home is safe.  And I 

17    don't think we should stray from that and make 

18    patients less comfortable.  

19                 If a patient wants to pursue medical 

20    aid in dying in a controlled environment such as 

21    a hospital, that's their choice.

22                 Fundamentally, this is about choice 

23    and personal autonomy, and we don't impose these 

24    requirements for other conditions.  And I don't 

25    think we should do it here.  So we're trying 


                                                               4917

 1    to -- we're trying to apply this evenly across 

 2    different patient experiences, if you will.

 3                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

 4    time check?  Am I -- 

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   You read 

 6    my mind, Senator Borrello.  I was going to give 

 7    you a courtesy reminder.  You have -- 23 minutes 

 8    have elapsed, so you have approximately seven 

 9    minutes remaining.

10                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   All right great.  

11    One last question, then, if the sponsor wouldn't 

12    mind, please.  

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

14    sponsor yield?

15                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

17    sponsor yields.

18                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Seven 

19    minutes.

20                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   (Laughing.)  

21    I'll be brief.  

22                 So let's assume, now, this person 

23    with a terminal illness expires at home and 

24    family, law enforcement show up.  We have no 

25    chain of custody for these drugs.  How do we know 


                                                               4918

 1    that that person actually died using those deadly 

 2    drugs or whether they just expired because of 

 3    their illness -- and then having to find those 

 4    deadly drugs.  How are we going to guarantee that 

 5    this person actually died by using those deadly 

 6    drugs?

 7                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 8    you, Mr. President.  Well, obviously if, you 

 9    know, the -- their -- if someone shows up at 

10    someone's doorstep, there would have to be some 

11    understanding as to what happened.  

12                 But I'll tell you that there are 

13    extensive reporting requirements in this bill for 

14    this exact scenario.

15                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

16    on the bill.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

18    Borrello on the bill.

19                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you, 

20    Senator Hoylman-Sigal.  I appreciate the 

21    engagement here.

22                 You know, we've proposed a lot of 

23    irresponsible laws in the five-plus years that 

24    I've been here.  And, you know, we kind of want 

25    to give people the impression that New York is 


                                                               4919

 1    the most progressive because we have to do 

 2    everything a little bit further than every other 

 3    state.  But now we're talking about giving people 

 4    the right to commit suicide with the state's 

 5    sanction.  And we're still going to prove that 

 6    we're the most progressive.

 7                 This bill is horribly irresponsible.  

 8    It gives people the ability to walk in with a 

 9    prescription, walk out with life-ending drugs 

10    with no accountability whatsoever, walk home.

11                 We all have known people with 

12    terminal illnesses.  It's very difficult on the 

13    family as well.  You have kids that are going to 

14    lose their parent.  They become depressed, 

15    emotional.  And now in that house, without any 

16    supervision, any oversight, are deadly 

17    life-ending drugs.  And the State of New York has 

18    no idea where they are or how they were used.  

19    That's what this bill will do.  

20                 Now, you can tell me what hasn't 

21    happened anywhere else.  You don't know that, 

22    because in the states that have actually done 

23    assisted suicide bills, suicide rates are up.  

24    They're up.  How do we not know that these people 

25    haven't committed suicide using these deadly 


                                                               4920

 1    drugs?  We really don't.

 2                 We're talking about families in 

 3    crisis.  And I know that that's difficult.  We 

 4    should be helping those families by saying we're 

 5    going to put you in an environment that is 

 6    controlled, where there are professionals that 

 7    know how to properly administer these drugs and 

 8    ensure that it's being done properly.

 9                 The doctors that are going to 

10    prescribe these drugs don't necessarily have to 

11    have a relationship with that patient.  There are 

12    stories from other places, like in Canada, where 

13    a girl with severe autism wanted to end her life, 

14    and she doctor-shopped until she found doctors 

15    that would prescribe those deadly medications.  

16    And her father worked very hard to make sure that 

17    that didn't happen.

18                 But most importantly, think about 

19    this scenario.  We all know that there are people 

20    out there that are just waiting around for 

21    someone to die so they can inherit some money.  

22    We all know those people.  Right?  All of a 

23    sudden, grandma's got a terminal illness, dad's 

24    got a terminal illness -- Dad, you've got those 

25    pills, come on.  Maybe they won't say it exactly 


                                                               4921

 1    that way, but they will encourage those family 

 2    members to end their life prematurely so that 

 3    they can stop the flow of money that's going to 

 4    their care.

 5                 That, to me, is horrible.  And this 

 6    legislation will allow people to accelerate the 

 7    death of loved ones for financial gain.

 8                 That's the problem with this bill, 

 9    folks.  We need real oversight.  I'm opposed to 

10    it anyway, quite frankly.  We should not be in 

11    the business of state-authorized suicide, period.  

12    But if you want to make this bill a little bit 

13    better, let's make sure that there's some 

14    accountability, some oversight, that the things I 

15    just described aren't going to happen.  

16                 And just because they may not have 

17    happened elsewhere doesn't mean they won't happen 

18    here, because this bill goes further than any 

19    other assisted suicide bill in this nation.  It's 

20    irresponsible.  We should not pass this.  And the 

21    Governor should not sign it.

22                 I'll be voting no.  Thank you, 

23    Mr. President.  

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

25    you, Senator Borrello.


                                                               4922

 1                 Senator Weber, why do you rise?

 2                 SENATOR WEBER:   Thank you, 

 3    Mr. President.  On the bill first.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 5    Weber on the bill.   

 6                 SENATOR WEBER:   So probably like a 

 7    lot of my colleagues, I've gotten probably 

 8    thousands of phone calls and emails from 

 9    concerned residents regarding this assisted 

10    suicide bill.  And probably the majority of the 

11    phone calls I got were from the disability 

12    community.  They're concerned.  There's no 

13    explicit ban on someone with developmental 

14    disabilities being prescribed this.  And it says 

15    it can be -- it says it cannot be your sole 

16    diagnosis.  

17                 The disability community has also 

18    had the experience of the other states that have 

19    had it in place for a while, and they don't feel 

20    at ease.  In fact, the fear, the impact of it on 

21    people living with disabilities continues to 

22    grow.  And we also hear from many elderly people 

23    who are concerned about this as well.

24                 So I want to explore some questions 

25    with the sponsor on some of those related topics.  


                                                               4923

 1    So, Mr. President, would the sponsor yield for 

 2    some questions?  

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 4    Hoylman-Sigal, would you yield for some 

 5    questions?  

 6                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 8    sponsor yields.

 9                 SENATOR WEBER:   Thank you, Senator.  

10                 Somewhere in the bill memo it talks 

11    about that this works in all other states.  But 

12    if that's the case, why are national disability 

13    groups so strongly opposed to this bill?

14                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

15    you, Mr. President.  Well, I will say to my 

16    colleague I would suggest reviewing Section 4, 

17    line 9 of the bill itself.  Please look at the 

18    bill versus the memo.  "No person shall qualify 

19    for medical aid in dying under this article 

20    solely because of age or disability."  I don't 

21    think we could be more explicit in protecting 

22    the -- in addressing the concerns of the 

23    disability community.

24                 I think -- through you, 

25    Mr. President -- that there's misinformation 


                                                               4924

 1    about this issue.  And it's understandable, 

 2    because it's a tough issue.  But we shouldn't 

 3    stray away from tough issues because there's 

 4    misinformation.  We should try to clear the air 

 5    and understand why so many patients are actually 

 6    seeking this while respecting the concerns of 

 7    those in the disability community and elsewhere, 

 8    perhaps because of a lack of full understanding 

 9    of what the bill does.  

10                 But we put that language in this 

11    bill specifically, Mr. President, to address 

12    those concerns.

13                 SENATOR WEBER:   Mr. President, will 

14    the sponsor continue to yield?

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

16    sponsor yield?

17                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

19    sponsor yields.

20                 SENATOR WEBER:   Thank you.  

21                 Well, as you mentioned, we have 

22    decades of experience in other states, and yet 

23    disability advocates throughout the nation remain 

24    very concerned with not only this bill but 

25    similar bills.


                                                               4925

 1                 So there's been a recent study that 

 2    I read that -- and according to disability 

 3    advocates -- 82 percent of physicians view people 

 4    with disabilities as having a worse quality of 

 5    life.  Do you agree with that?

 6                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 7    you, Mr. President.  Well, I'm not a physician, 

 8    so I can't really agree with a physician 

 9    standpoint.  

10                 I will say that our statistics show 

11    the vast majority of people with disabilities 

12    support end-of-life choices -- according to a 

13    Susquehanna poll, 79 percent nationally in 2023.

14                 SENATOR WEBER:   Through you, 

15    Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to 

16    yield?  

17                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

18                 SENATOR WEBER:   Thank you.  

19                 Well, I'd love to see that study, 

20    because what I've read and what I've seen and 

21    researched is quite the opposite.  

22                 But do you think that the bias could 

23    impact a physician's decision to counsel a 

24    developmentally disabled person into this option, 

25    this assisted-suicide option that you're 


                                                               4926

 1    proposing here today?  

 2                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Do I think 

 3    that what?  I'm sorry, say again?  

 4                 SENATOR WEBER:   Would a physician 

 5    who may have a bias, as I had mentioned earlier 

 6    about having a developmentally disabled person 

 7    having a worse quality of life, do you fear that 

 8    that physician's decision to counsel a person 

 9    would counsel that person into this option of 

10    assisted suicide?  

11                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

12    you, Mr. President, no.  Because we're very clear 

13    about what is required.  Having a disability does 

14    not qualify you in any way, shape or form by 

15    itself for medical aid in dying.  

16                 And again, I refer you to the clause 

17    that we inserted that no person shall qualify for 

18    medical aid in dying solely because of age or 

19    disability.  Simply being disabled doesn't 

20    qualify you.  Medical aid in dying is one of a 

21    number of end-of-life options for people with an 

22    incurable and irreversible terminal illness and a 

23    prognosis of six months left to live.  And those 

24    options are already included in forms of 

25    palliative care such as hospice.


                                                               4927

 1                 So I think there is a bright line, 

 2    and we expect our physicians to follow it.

 3                 SENATOR WEBER:   Thank you.

 4                 Mr. President, will the sponsor 

 5    continue to yield?  

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 7    sponsor yield? 

 8                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

10    sponsor yields.

11                 SENATOR WEBER:   I have another 

12    question I'd like to explore with you.  How will 

13    patients in long-term-care facilities, group 

14    homes or state-run institutions be protected from 

15    conflicts of interest or subtle administrative 

16    pressure?  

17                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

18    you, Mr. President.  Well, there are a number of 

19    safeguards in the bill, and I could certainly 

20    share those with you.  

21                 Of course the patient has to make an 

22    oral request and then a written request, signed, 

23    attested to by two disinterested witnesses -- 

24    can't be a family member, can't have a stake in 

25    the estate, can't work for that assisted living 


                                                               4928

 1    facility.  So these are neutral witnesses.

 2                 The patients have to be required to 

 3    be counseled about alternatives by the attending 

 4    physician.  That includes hospice.  That's why 

 5    we've seen rates of hospice, Mr. President, rise 

 6    in states that have medical aid in dying.  The 

 7    patient can withdraw the request at any time.  

 8    The medication has to be self-administered -- not 

 9    by anyone else or by a physician, by the 

10    individual.  

11                 As I mentioned earlier, there are 

12    publicly available annual reports on utilization.  

13    There's essentially a medical-aid-in-dying plan 

14    which the physician will complete with the 

15    consulting physician.

16                 So I think those safeguards protect 

17    the patient in the facility that you would 

18    suggest.

19                 In addition to stating that health 

20    insurance benefits, according to the bill, remain 

21    unaffected, and life insurance payments can't be 

22    denied because of medical aid in dying.  

23                 So I -- and then we have the 

24    experience of the other states that have had 

25    this.  And there are no examples of the concerns 


                                                               4929

 1    that you raise, with all due respect.  

 2                 SENATOR WEBB:   Will the sponsor 

 3    continue to yield, Mr. President?  

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 5    sponsor yield?

 6                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 8    sponsor yields.

 9                 SENATOR WEBER:   I'd like to explore 

10    a few other topics.  

11                 As I mentioned earlier, we get a lot 

12    of phone calls from elderly people, and the 

13    subject of coercion always comes up.  And, you 

14    know, who decides if there's any coercion of a 

15    patient?

16                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Well -- 

17    through you, Mr. President -- who decides would 

18    be law enforcement and prosecutors if there were 

19    concerns about coercion.  

20                 We have very strong laws in that 

21    regard.  Anyone attempting to coerce a patient 

22    would face a criminal prosecution, Class A 

23    misdemeanor to Class D felony.  We have those 

24    statutes specifically in existence already.  

25                 And again, back to experience.  


                                                               4930

 1    Since 1997, when medical aid in dying was first 

 2    authorized in Oregon, not a single case -- not 

 3    one -- of coercion has been uncovered.  That's 

 4    pretty significant.

 5                 We also know that family members -- 

 6    you know, typically -- I know there's the, you 

 7    know, stereotype of an evil son-in-law.  But 

 8    family members typically are pressuring patients 

 9    to prolong their lives, to not take advantage of 

10    medical aid in dying.  And that's borne out by 

11    the statistics in Oregon:  90 percent of those 

12    who took the medication did so citing the bodily 

13    autonomy they were losing to their illness.  

14                 So I feel like coercion is a 

15    concern, but our criminal statutes have addressed 

16    that.  And experience shows that it does not bear 

17    out in reality.

18                 SENATOR WEBER:   Mr. President, will 

19    the sponsor continue to yield?  

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

21    sponsor yield?

22                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

24    sponsor yields.  

25                 SENATOR WEBER:   How do we know 


                                                               4931

 1    that, though?  How do you we know that people 

 2    haven't been coerced?  Are doctors qualified to 

 3    recognize forms of coercion?  

 4                 You know, you talk about law 

 5    enforcement and, yeah, they would be brought in 

 6    at a particular time of the process.  But are 

 7    physicians qualified to recognize when there's 

 8    coercion, when there's family members, I think as 

 9    Senator Borrello mentioned a little while ago, 

10    maybe relatives who have a financial interest of, 

11    you know, Nanny not being around or a sick child 

12    being around any longer.  How do you know if a 

13    physician is qualified to recognize signs of 

14    coercion?  They would be the ones that would be 

15    the front line.

16                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

17    you, Mr. President.  Look, I understand the 

18    concern.  Again, I think it's a bit of a 

19    stereotype, a rather dark view of human nature 

20    which is not borne out by the facts.  

21                 But I understand what we're trying 

22    to do, and I share your concern, which is to 

23    prepare for the unintended consequence.  And I 

24    understand where you're coming from, Senator.

25                 But there have been no examples of 


                                                               4932

 1    it in history since 1997, number one.  

 2                 Number two, recall that the 

 3    physician has to attest to the voluntary nature 

 4    of the oral and written request.  And then the 

 5    witnesses have to be completely disinterested 

 6    parties having no relationship, marital or 

 7    familial or -- even a domestic partner is 

 8    forbidden from attesting to the request for 

 9    medical-aid-in-dying medication.  

10                 And finally, the -- they can't have 

11    an interest in the estate, even if they're not 

12    related.  Nor can they have an interest in the 

13    facility, perhaps, where medical aid in dying may 

14    be administered.  And the physician and the 

15    consulting physician both have to represent those 

16    facts and sign under penalty of perjury.  

17                 SENATOR WEBER:   Mr. President, will 

18    the sponsor continue to yield?  

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

20    sponsor yield?

21                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

23    sponsor yields.

24                 SENATOR WEBER:   I think some of the 

25    fear is that, you know, we're going to be 


                                                               4933

 1    creating hundreds if not thousands of 

 2    Dr. Kevorkians, right, those who are going to get 

 3    into the business of really practicing and really 

 4    promoting end-of-life treatment.  And that's a 

 5    concern.

 6                 But I want to move on to another 

 7    question.  Are there any verification or 

 8    notarization requirements that the two witnesses' 

 9    signatures are legitimate, so that we can ensure 

10    that a patient or someone else has not forged the 

11    witness signatures?

12                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

13    you, Mr. President.  Well, the witnesses have to 

14    sign and attest to the voluntary nature of the 

15    request under penalty of perjury, really the 

16    strongest backup for an attestation we have in 

17    the law.

18                 SENATOR WEBER:   Mr. President, will 

19    the sponsor continue to yield? 

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

21    sponsor yield?

22                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

24    sponsor yields.

25                 SENATOR WEBER:   The only problem 


                                                               4934

 1    with that is if something's forged and the 

 2    person's ended their life, the damage has been 

 3    already been done.  

 4                 So, I mean, are you comfortable 

 5    and/or what other safeguards would you consider 

 6    that should be really improved upon or at least 

 7    strengthened so that something like that doesn't 

 8    happen?  Because it may come too late that it's 

 9    found out about.

10                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

11    you, Mr. President.  I -- again, through practice 

12    we've seen that this works.  And I appreciate the 

13    hypotheticals because we should always be 

14    thinking about the hypotheticals, particularly in 

15    lawmaking.  But we have no examples of what my 

16    colleague suggests in this specific regard.

17                 And remember, the kind of baseline 

18    here is the terminal diagnosis of six months or 

19    fewer to live.  And I suppose the -- I suppose 

20    someone could be after -- you know, someone may 

21    have a nefarious motive.  But six months?  You 

22    know, you're going to get your greedy paws on 

23    that estate now or in six months?  I mean, I -- 

24    in addition to the fact of all the safeguards.  

25                 That's why I think it has not 


                                                               4935

 1    happened, is that it's -- the safeguards are in 

 2    place and the terminal diagnosis had been 

 3    granted.  The person is dying.  It's not as if 

 4    that isn't based in reality.  The person has a 

 5    terminal diagnosis.  They are dying.

 6                 SENATOR WEBER:   Thank you, Senator.  

 7    Thank you for those answers to the questions.  

 8                 Mr. President, on the bill.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

10    Weber on the bill.

11                 SENATOR WEBER:   And as I said, 

12    Senator, thank you.  But I'm still not satisfied 

13    and I'm still very concerned with the dangerous 

14    road that we're going down, potentially, today.  

15                 And again, I rise not in anger but 

16    in sorrow, sorrow for where we are headed if we 

17    allow the proposed assisted-suicide bill to 

18    become law in this state -- a state that is 

19    bleeding residents literally and figuratively.  

20                 Supporters of this bill claim that 

21    it's about compassion.  But compassion without 

22    transparency is not mercy, it's neglect and 

23    coercion cloaked in kindness.

24                 Under this bill a terminally ill 

25    patient could take their own life with prescribed 


                                                               4936

 1    lethal medication.  But unless that patient 

 2    chooses to notify their family beforehand, their 

 3    loved ones may never know how or even why that 

 4    life was ended.  Was it a suicide pill, an 

 5    accidental overdose, or something more sinister?  

 6                 This legislation offers no clear 

 7    path for family involvement, no mandate for 

 8    disclosure, no mandated wait period, and no 

 9    guaranteed autopsy.  And for many families, 

10    especially those whose faith prohibit autopsies 

11    after death, that is not just a bureaucratic 

12    oversight, it's a religious violation.  

13                 My questions are not just 

14    hypothetical.  We've seen the consequences of 

15    institutional decisions made without regard for 

16    our citizens.  During the COVID-19 pandemic, how 

17    many of our elderly died alone, isolated in 

18    hospitals, unable to hold the hand of a loved 

19    one, even to make a final phone call?  Have we 

20    forgotten that already?  

21                 Did the state not only preside over 

22    the lonely, silent deaths of thousands of seniors 

23    and those with chronic illnesses?  And now, with 

24    this bill, we may be repeating the same mistake, 

25    not from the fear of spreading COVID, but in the 


                                                               4937

 1    name of freedom without sufficient safeguards, 

 2    without witnesses, and too often without love.  

 3                 We are told this is a choice.  But 

 4    what kind of choice is it when the system makes 

 5    it even easier or even encourages people to die 

 6    rather than to live with dignity?  Who is this 

 7    assisted-suicide bill really helping?  And who is 

 8    it quietly abandoning?  

 9                 I'll tell you:  It's abandoning the 

10    vulnerable, our seniors, those living with 

11    disabilities, and those in their darkest moments.  

12    Hundreds if not thousands of my constituents have 

13    called and emailed and contacted my office, 

14    commented on social media posts, and they are all 

15    opposed to this dangerous and reckless 

16    legislation.  

17                 This may be well-intentioned, but 

18    the road to hell was paved with good intentions.  

19    I'll be voting no, and I encourage my colleagues 

20    from across the aisle to do the same.

21                 Thank you, Mr. President.  

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

23    you, Senator Weber.

24                 Senator Ashby, why do you rise?

25                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Thank you, 


                                                               4938

 1    Mr. President.  Will the sponsor yield?  

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 3    sponsor yield for some questions?

 4                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 6    sponsor yields.

 7                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Thank you, 

 8    Senator Hoylman.  

 9                 Through you, Mr. President.  Is 

10    there a requirement for the attending physician 

11    to have been with this patient for any period of 

12    time?

13                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

14    you, Mr. President.  There's no specific time 

15    period that the physician has to spend with the 

16    patient in the statute.  

17                 But I will say that the patient -- 

18    the physician has to make these important 

19    determinations, including that the patient is of 

20    sound mind, that he or she is over 18, that they 

21    have a terminal illness, and that the patient is 

22    voluntarily requesting, both orally and in 

23    writing, the medication.  In addition to 

24    recruiting a consulting physician to back up the 

25    original physician's assessment.


                                                               4939

 1                 So that is, I think, the essence of 

 2    the doctor-patient relationship in this regard.  

 3    And I think that's why we have the New York State 

 4    Medical Society in support of this bill.  Which 

 5    goes to the fact that physicians here in New York 

 6    feel comfortable, in the main, in making that 

 7    assessment.

 8                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Will the sponsor 

 9    yield?  

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

11    sponsor yield? 

12                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

14    sponsor yields.  

15                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Through you, 

16    Mr. President.  I'm glad that you brought up the 

17    consulting physician.  So how much time does the 

18    consulting physician need to spend with the 

19    patient in person?

20                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Well, he or 

21    she has to make all those determinations and, 

22    along with the attending physician, determine 

23    whether a mental health examination is required.  

24    Either physician can make that determination.

25                 So you would want to understand the 


                                                               4940

 1    patient -- we know that physicians do that for a 

 2    whole host of other conditions they're treating, 

 3    but they most certainly have to do it here.  And 

 4    both of them would have to do it.  And I think, 

 5    again, built in that is a relationship that the 

 6    physician, abiding by our standards of medical 

 7    practice, would have to take very seriously.

 8                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Will the sponsor 

 9    yield?

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

11    sponsor yield?

12                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

14    sponsor yields.  

15                 SENATOR ASHBY:   So again, 

16    Senator Hoylman, how much time in person would 

17    the attending physician or the consulting 

18    physician need to spend with the patient?  

19                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

20    you, Mr. President.  Like a lot of medical 

21    decisions, that's up to the physician to make 

22    that determination.  We don't prescribe that in 

23    the statute.  

24                 I don't think you'd find in any part 

25    of our voluminous statutes any requirement that a 


                                                               4941

 1    physician has to spend a certain amount of time 

 2    with a specific patient regarding a specific 

 3    condition.  We leave it to the medical 

 4    professionals.

 5                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Will the sponsor 

 6    yield?

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 8    sponsor yield?

 9                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

11    sponsor yields.

12                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Through you, 

13    Mr. President.  So what you're saying is that 

14    they, by law, don't have to spend any time in 

15    person with this patient who's seeking to 

16    potentially end their life, is that correct?

17                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

18    you, Mr. President, no, that's exactly the 

19    opposite of what I'm saying.  

20                 I'm saying that they have to make a 

21    certain number of determinations about the 

22    patient.  Let's start with the age.  Let's 

23    started with the fact that they have to examine 

24    the patient's medical history and determine 

25    whether they have an illness that's terminal and 


                                                               4942

 1    irreversible --

 2                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Will the sponsor 

 3    recognize that --

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Wait a 

 5    minute.  Senator Ashby, Senator Hoylman-Sigal has 

 6    the floor.  I understand this is an issue that 

 7    gets everybody -- but when the Senator has the 

 8    floor, he's speaking.

 9                 If you are asking him to yield, you 

10    can wait until he's finished speaking and then 

11    you can ask him to yield to another question.  Is 

12    that fair?

13                 SENATOR ASHBY:   It's only fair if 

14    he's going to answer the question.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

16    Ashby, your definition of him answering the 

17    question is not germane here.  He is answering, 

18    and he has the floor.  

19                 Again, can he finish his question 

20    and then you ask him to yield again?

21                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Let me cut 

22    to the chase.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

24    Hoylman-Sigal, continue.  

25                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Thank you, 


                                                               4943

 1    Mr. President.  

 2                 Let me cut to the chase.  The 

 3    physician has go to through a number of 

 4    checklists.  That's going to take time in and of 

 5    itself.  

 6                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Will the sponsor 

 7    yield?

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 9    sponsor yield?

10                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

12    sponsor yields.  

13                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Through you, 

14    Mr. President.  Through that series of 

15    checklists, is the physician required -- 

16    attending or consulting -- to spend time with 

17    that patient in person?  

18                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

19    you, Mr. President.  We do not specify that in 

20    the bill.  But by virtue of what they are 

21    required to assess and what their determination 

22    must be in order for medical aid in dying to be 

23    administered, yes, they would most certainly have 

24    to spend time with the patient.

25                 Unless they're a quack.  And I'm 


                                                               4944

 1    not -- we're not dealing with quack physicians in 

 2    this regard.  But we have sanctions in criminal 

 3    statutes for that, you know, unlikely potential.  

 4    But one that I agree should always be considered, 

 5    which is why we've built in those safeguards.

 6                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Will the sponsor 

 7    yield?

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 9    sponsor yield?

10                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

12    sponsor yields.  

13                 SENATOR ASHBY:   So I'm glad that 

14    there's safeguards and provisions for quacks.  

15                 But what safeguards and measures are 

16    there, Senator, if we're not requiring them to 

17    see the patient in person?

18                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

19    you, Mr. President, we make no specific 

20    requirements, nor do we in any physician-patient 

21    relationship require physicians to do -- to make 

22    a personal appearance or otherwise.  

23                 But we do make requirements that 

24    they assess the patient extensively.  And in my 

25    mind, as it has been in the 11 other states, it's 


                                                               4945

 1    worked effectively and safely, and I expect the 

 2    same here in New York.

 3                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Will the sponsor 

 4    yield?

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 6    sponsor yield?

 7                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 9    sponsor yields.

10                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Through you, 

11    Mr. President.  So if there is an extensive 

12    evaluation going on, albeit not in person, is 

13    mental health a requirement for that?  A mental 

14    health evaluation, is that required?

15                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

16    you, Mr. President.  The mental health 

17    requirement is such that if the physician thinks 

18    that the patient is not making the decision 

19    themselves or that they're incapable of making 

20    such a decision, then they are required to refer 

21    the patient to a mental health examiner for a 

22    screening.  That is either -- or both -- the 

23    attending physician and the consulting physician.

24                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Will the sponsor 

25    yield?  


                                                               4946

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 2    sponsor yield? 

 3                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 5    sponsor yields.

 6                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Through you, 

 7    Mr. President, if someone is potentially choosing 

 8    to end their life and is in this awful position, 

 9    why wouldn't they be referred to mental health 

10    regardless?

11                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

12    you, Mr. President.  Well, because I may disagree 

13    with my colleague.  I don't think requesting 

14    end-of-life medication when an individual is 

15    suffering, in pain, and dying, suggests a mental 

16    health condition.  

17                 If anything, I think it's quite 

18    rational to seek medical aid in dying when one is 

19    suffering unbearably.  That's the experience that 

20    has been shared with my colleagues and so many of 

21    the advocates.  

22                 In addition, we don't require a 

23    mental health screening for other decisions that 

24    may hasten death such as hospice care or a "Do 

25    Not Resuscitate" order, for example.  Those are 


                                                               4947

 1    also rational decisions that we, as a society of 

 2    laws, respect the personal autonomy of an 

 3    individual to make his or her own decisions about 

 4    their body.

 5                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Will the sponsor 

 6    yield?

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 8    sponsor yield?

 9                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

11    sponsor yields.  

12                 SENATOR ASHBY:   In those scenarios 

13    they have to have capacity.  And in order to have 

14    capacity, there's an evaluation that's done.  

15                 How is a physician who's not 

16    spending any time with this person or this 

17    patient in person, and no evaluation required, 

18    able to determine if this person has capacity?

19                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

20    you, Mr. President.  Well, physicians make that 

21    determination all the time.  You know, maybe 

22    every day.  Maybe every patient they see.  

23                 Speak to a physician.  They've told 

24    me that that is one of their routine checks that 

25    they make.  And we entrust them to make that.


                                                               4948

 1                 But don't just trust them, trust the 

 2    New York State Psychiatric Association, who have 

 3    strongly supported this legislation because of 

 4    the safeguards that we've put in place in 

 5    connection with mental health.

 6                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Will the sponsor 

 7    yield?

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 9    sponsor yield?

10                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

12    sponsor yields.

13                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Are you aware of 

14    the proliferation of medical aid in dying in 

15    Canada?

16                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

17    you, Mr. President.  I am aware.  It's not 

18    medical aid in dying, though.  It's euthanasia.  

19    And it is abhorrent and appalling.  

20                 And I am proud that here in the 

21    United States, and maybe in New York, we have 

22    chosen a distinctly different path for patients 

23    who are terminally ill.

24                 There's no requirement in Canada for 

25    that.  So it is a -- and it's not 


                                                               4949

 1    self-administered.  It's a completely different 

 2    scenario, but one that I'm glad you raise.  

 3    Because our bill is the diametric opposite of 

 4    what the courts and statutes are following in 

 5    Canada.

 6                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Will the sponsor 

 7    yield.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 9    sponsor yield?

10                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

12    sponsor yields.

13                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Through you, 

14    Mr. President.  It devolved into that, but when 

15    it began in Canada, it was shaped similarly.  

16                 Are you nervous at all about the 

17    protections that are currently in this bill 

18    eroding over time through the judiciary and 

19    expanding?

20                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

21    you, Mr. President.  Let me -- thank you for the 

22    question.  Let me tell you how Canada's 

23    physician-assisted death is different from 

24    medical aid in dying.

25                 In Canada there's no requirement for 


                                                               4950

 1    a terminal illness.  There's no requirement that 

 2    there be a six-month or less prognosis.  There's 

 3    no requirement, as I mentioned earlier, for 

 4    self-administration of the drugs.

 5                 Canada's law is derived from a 

 6    completely different Bill of Rights, the Charter 

 7    of Rights and Freedoms.  And, you know, here in 

 8    the United States we have both the U.S. 

 9    Supreme Court and New York's highest court, the 

10    Court of Appeals, that have explicitly stated 

11    there is no right to die.

12                 The Court of Appeals said that in 

13    fact it was up to the Legislature.  The 

14    Legislature may conclude that, and specify the 

15    conditions under which it will permit aid in 

16    dying.  That was in the case Myers v. 

17    Schneiderman, dating back 20 years ago.

18                 But so in addition to that are court 

19    decisions which are diametrically opposite to the 

20    Supreme Court of Canada.  We have the experience, 

21    the 27-year experience, beginning with Oregon.  

22    No medical-aid-in-dying statute has expanded.  We 

23    talk about a slippery slope -- the slope has not 

24    slipped.  

25                 We -- and we are -- we, you and I, 


                                                               4951

 1    Senator, and our colleagues, are the guardians of 

 2    the slippery slope.  We will be the ones, not our 

 3    courts, as happened in Canada, we would be the 

 4    ones to expand this law.  But we should not, and 

 5    I'm telling you other states have not either.

 6                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Will the sponsor 

 7    yield?  

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 9    sponsor yield?

10                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

12    sponsor yields.

13                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Through you, 

14    Mr. President.  Then I guess this bill is exactly 

15    as it was written for -- how long ago?  Thirty, 

16    35 years?  Has it not changed or expanded at all?

17                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

18    you, Mr. President.  Virtually, no.  

19                 There are discussions in states, as 

20    I've mentioned earlier, about waiting periods.  

21    That is the only permutation that I'm aware of 

22    among the 11 states.  

23                 There's a constitutional challenge 

24    in New Jersey about the waiting period, and other 

25    states are looking to waive the waiting period or 


                                                               4952

 1    statutorily address it.  

 2                 But again, because there's no 

 3    constitutional right, it's up to legislators to 

 4    safeguard the outlines of the bill.

 5                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Will the sponsor 

 6    yield? 

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 8    sponsor yield? 

 9                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

11    sponsor yields.

12                 SENATOR ASHBY:   I believe just in 

13    the last few years the method of delivery has 

14    changed, has it not?  

15                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

16    you, Mr. President.  I'm not aware of that and 

17    would welcome to be enlightened.

18                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Will the sponsor 

19    yield.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

21    sponsor yield? 

22                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

24    sponsor yields.

25                 SENATOR ASHBY:   So it's my 


                                                               4953

 1    understanding that originally it had to be 

 2    ingested orally, right?  And now it's expanded 

 3    potentially into other methods of delivery -- 

 4    tube feed, for example.  Is that correct?  

 5                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   What was 

 6    the last part?  I'm sorry.

 7                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Tube feed.  Through 

 8    a tube feed.

 9                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:  I'm sorry -- 

10    oh.  Well, there perhaps -- through you, 

11    Mr. President, there perhaps could be different 

12    ways to administer the medication.  But it 

13    doesn't change the fact -- and that's probably 

14    due to technology over the last 27 years.  But it 

15    hasn't changed the basic precept that the 

16    medication has to be self-administered.

17                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Will the sponsor 

18    yield.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

20    sponsor yield?

21                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

23    sponsor yields.

24                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Tube feed has been 

25    around for a while, Senator.  And again, this is 


                                                               4954

 1    an example of it changing just in the last five 

 2    years.  So when you had mentioned that, you know, 

 3    we're the guardians of the slippery slope and 

 4    that -- how the bill is not going to change, just 

 5    in the last four to five years we're seeing 

 6    delivery methods change on this and expand.  

 7                 How does that not concern you that 

 8    it will change afterwards?  

 9                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

10    you, Mr. President.  I was -- couldn't 

11    understand.  You were saying "tube feeding"?  

12                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Yeah.

13                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Okay, tube 

14    feeding.  Okay, got it.  

15                 Well, again, that doesn't change -- 

16    the administration of the drug still requires -- 

17    again, section 15 -- or, rather, 16, 

18    "'Self-administer,'" the definition, "means a 

19    qualified individual's affirmative, conscious, 

20    and voluntary act to ingest medication under this 

21    article.  Self-administration does not include 

22    lethal injection or lethal infusion."  Meaning a 

23    physician administering that to you, as is the 

24    case in Canada.

25                 So the technology may advance, but I 


                                                               4955

 1    think you have the black-and-white guardrails 

 2    here that self-administration is essential to 

 3    medical aid in dying.

 4                 SENATOR ASHBY:   On the bill.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 6    Ashby on the bill.

 7                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Thank you, 

 8    Senator Hoylman.

 9                 And what we're seeing here is the 

10    denial of the proliferation of this already.  

11    Just in the last couple of years the bill has 

12    changed, the bill has expanded for new means of 

13    administration and methods of delivery.  It will 

14    continue to expand, just as it has in other 

15    places.  

16                 And we can call this whatever we 

17    would like, different names for it, but in the 

18    end we all know what it does.

19                 Thank you, Mr. President.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

21    you, Senator Ashby.

22                 Senator Rhoads, why do you rise?

23                 SENATOR RHOADS:   I was hoping that 

24    the sponsor would yield to a few more questions.  

25    As soon as he's finished chewing.


                                                               4956

 1                 (Laughter.)

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 3    Hoylman-Sigal, do you yield?  

 4                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 6    sponsor yields.

 7                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you, 

 8    Mr. President.  Through you, Mr. President.  

 9                 You know, I'm happy that you 

10    mentioned the support of the New York Psychiatric 

11    Association, because it's interesting -- isn't it 

12    a fact, Senator, that nowhere in this bill is it 

13    required that there actually be a psychiatric 

14    evaluation of the patient before this medication 

15    is actually given?  Is that correct?

16                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

17    you, Mr. President, no, it's not completely 

18    correct.  

19                 If the attending or consulting 

20    physician deems that the patient is not able to 

21    make the decision on their own, then it would be 

22    required.

23                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Would the sponsor 

24    continue to yield.  

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 


                                                               4957

 1    sponsor yield? 

 2                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 4    sponsor yields.

 5                 SENATOR RHOADS:   So you're talking 

 6    about the actual prescribing physician would be 

 7    the one to make the determination as to the 

 8    mental health of the patient.  So in theory, your 

 9    oncologist could be making a decision as to the 

10    state of my mental health.

11                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

12    you, Mr. President.  Well, they would make the 

13    first stop.  As, again, physicians do all the 

14    time when they see a patient every day:  Is this 

15    patient of mine making a voluntary decision to 

16    request all kinds of medication or procedures or 

17    hospice or perhaps, you know, a trivial or a 

18    serious medical procedure.  

19                 And then if they determine that they 

20    are not -- this patient is not capable of making 

21    an informed decision, in addition to the other 

22    requirements, they then refer -- either of those 

23    physicians would refer that patient for a mental 

24    health screening.

25                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Would the sponsor 


                                                               4958

 1    continue to yield.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 3    sponsor yield? 

 4                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 6    sponsor yields.

 7                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you, 

 8    Senator.  Through you, Mr. President.

 9                 Neither of those physicians actually 

10    has to be a psychiatrist, correct?

11                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

12    you, Mr. President, that is correct.  

13                 SENATOR RHOADS:   So again -- if the 

14    sponsor will continue to yield.  

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

16    sponsor yield?  Senator Hoylman-Sigal, do you 

17    yield?  

18                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

20    sponsor yields.

21                 SENATOR RHOADS:   So again, two 

22    oncologists who have no background in psychiatric 

23    training are going to be asked to make an 

24    evaluation as to whether someone has the capacity 

25    to be able to make this decision, is that 


                                                               4959

 1    correct?

 2                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 3    you, Mr. President.  Again, physicians make these 

 4    assessments all the time.  But yes, they are not 

 5    necessarily, you know, mental health 

 6    professionals in the first round, they are 

 7    medical doctors who assess state of mind among 

 8    their patients all the time.  

 9                 And for the complete evaluation, 

10    they would refer the patient to a mental health 

11    expert.

12                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Would the sponsor 

13    continue to yield.  

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

15    sponsor yield? 

16                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

18    sponsor yields.

19                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Through you, 

20    Mr. President.  However, Senator Hoylman, there 

21    is no requirement that they do so, isn't that 

22    correct?

23                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

24    you, Mr. President.  Yes, there is no specific 

25    requirement that they make the mental -- what the 


                                                               4960

 1    requirement is, is that the physician has to 

 2    ensure that the patient meets the criteria, 

 3    inform the patient that they can rescind the 

 4    request, discuss risks, alternatives, hospice and 

 5    palliative care.  

 6                 The secondary physician has to 

 7    confirm the diagnosis and assess the capacity of 

 8    the patient.  

 9                 If the physician is unsure, then the 

10    physician refers that -- either physician refers 

11    that patient to a mental-health practitioner who 

12    has to evaluate the decision-making capacity.  

13                 And according to our bill, the 

14    attending physician shall not prescribe 

15    medication to the patient if they find the 

16    patient lacks capacity.

17                 So again, both physicians make the 

18    first assessment as to whether a specific 

19    mental-health evaluation is required.

20                 SENATOR RHOADS:   On the bill 

21    briefly.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

23    Rhoads on the bill.

24                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you, 

25    Senator, for those questions.  


                                                               4961

 1                 There is a difference between mental 

 2    capacity and a mental-health evaluation.  The 

 3    fact that this bill does not require someone to 

 4    actually see a mental-health professional to 

 5    determine whether they're suffering from clinical 

 6    depression is a fallacy in this bill.  Someone 

 7    can be clinically depressed yet still demonstrate 

 8    the capacity to be able to make a decision.  

 9                 And to have someone who is not a 

10    trained professional make that determination to 

11    have a physician who is not qualified as a 

12    psychologist or a psychiatrist to make the 

13    determination is problematic.  Because someone 

14    who is an oncologist, someone who is a 

15    cardiologist, someone who has a specialty other 

16    than as a mental-health professional is not going 

17    to be able to be make the proper mental-health 

18    evaluation.  

19                 In fact, this bill doesn't even 

20    require it.  It merely requires that a doctor 

21    certify that the individual that appears before 

22    them has the capacity to be able to make that 

23    decision.

24                 If the sponsor will continue to 

25    yield.


                                                               4962

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 2    Hoylman-Sigal, do you yield?  

 3                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 5    sponsor yields.

 6                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Can you point in 

 7    the bill where it actually provides a definition 

 8    of terminal illness?

 9                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.  

10    Through you, Mr. President.  Section 17, line 15.  

11    Would you like me to read it?  

12                 "'Terminal illness or condition' 

13    means an incurable and irreversible illness or 

14    condition that has been medically confirmed and 

15    will, within reasonable medical judgment, produce 

16    death within six months."

17                 SENATOR RHOADS:   And will the 

18    sponsor continue to yield?  

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

20    sponsor yield? 

21                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

23    sponsor yields.

24                 SENATOR RHOADS:   And is there a 

25    definition as to whether the condition needed -- 


                                                               4963

 1    needs to be treatable by medication or not?

 2                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 3    you, Mr. President.  There's nothing specific 

 4    that the condition be treatable by medication.  

 5                 But it does state that it has to be 

 6    incurable and irreversible and, according to 

 7    reasonable medical judgment, produce death within 

 8    six months.  There's no mention of medication per 

 9    se.

10                 SENATOR RHOADS:   If the sponsor 

11    will continue to yield.  

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

13    sponsor yield?

14                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

16    sponsor yields.

17                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Well, how does 

18    this bill make a distinction -- or does this bill 

19    make a distinction between terminal illness and a 

20    chronic illness?  

21                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

22    you, Mr. President.  Well, a chronic illness is 

23    one that does not lead to death within six 

24    months.  I can assure you it would not qualify 

25    under terminal illness or condition.


                                                               4964

 1                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Will the sponsor 

 2    continue to yield.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 4    sponsor yield? 

 5                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 7    sponsor yields.

 8                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Well, how does 

 9    this bill account for, for example, diseases that 

10    are treatable with medication but if you refuse 

11    to take the medication would result in death 

12    within a period of months?  Like, for example, 

13    ALS.  

14                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

15    you, Mr. President.  Most of the conditions that 

16    we've seen in other states are mainly cancer, 

17    terminal diagnoses for cancer of six months or 

18    fewer.  But there are neurodegenerative disorders 

19    such as ALS or Lou Gehrig's disease, that could 

20    qualify.  They are in fact the second-leading 

21    diagnosis of people who use medical aid in dying.  

22                 And in terms of an individual 

23    withholding a treatment, I think is your 

24    question?  If that moved them into a potential 

25    terminal diagnosis, I think it would not be based 


                                                               4965

 1    on the standard that's the set in the statute, in 

 2    the law -- bill, rather.

 3                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Will the sponsor 

 4    continue to yield.  

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 6    sponsor yield?

 7                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 9    sponsor yields.

10                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Well, in what way, 

11    if I can ask, would that not meet the 

12    determination?  

13                 If it's an illness that will result 

14    in death within six months and it contains no 

15    qualifications with respect to medications -- if, 

16    for example, I have advanced diabetes, my 

17    kidneys have shut down and I require daily 

18    dialysis, I can live indefinitely as long as I 

19    receive that dialysis.  The moment that I stop, I 

20    could be dead within a matter of a few days.  

21                 If I make the conscious decision 

22    that I want to stop, why wouldn't I meet the 

23    criteria under the bill?  

24                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

25    you, Mr. President, let's start with the fact 


                                                               4966

 1    that if you do have chronic diabetes and you stop 

 2    dialysis, for example, sadly, I think you would 

 3    expire before you'd even got the paperwork 

 4    together.  It's my understanding that that would 

 5    be a matter of days, not weeks, which would be 

 6    required under this bill.

 7                 But also, to my colleague, look at 

 8    the word "irreversible," which is a requirement.  

 9    The condition has to be irreversible.  I would 

10    suggest that in a situation involving dialysis, 

11    that is reversible, if the patient would resume 

12    that treatment and then could continue to live.  

13    So that would not qualify, in my assessment, 

14    under our bill.

15                 SENATOR RHOADS:   If the sponsor 

16    will continue to yield.  

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

18    sponsor yield? 

19                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

21    sponsor yields.

22                 SENATOR RHOADS:   And where is that 

23    definition in your bill?  

24                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   That 

25    definition of irreversibility is in Section 17, 


                                                               4967

 1    line 15:  "'Terminal illness or condition,'" 

 2    which I read earlier, means an incurable and 

 3    irreversible, incurable and irreversible illness 

 4    or condition that has been medically confirmed.

 5                 SENATOR RHOADS:   So it's a 

 6    definition --

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Are you 

 8    on the bill, Senator Rhoads, or --

 9                 SENATOR RHOADS:   On the bill.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

11    Rhoads on the bill.

12                 SENATOR RHOADS:   So it's a 

13    definition of a term that in the definition 

14    contains the very term that you're seeking to 

15    define.  

16                 So in reality, it appears as though 

17    there is no definition of what an irreversible 

18    condition actually would turn out to be, opening 

19    the pathway so that if somebody refuses ordinary 

20    treatment and that ordinary treatment will 

21    actually enable them to -- will actually enable 

22    them to qualify for a condition that would allow 

23    them to take advantage of a medication that will 

24    actually end their life more quickly.

25                 By the way -- if the sponsor will 


                                                               4968

 1    continue to yield.  

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 3    sponsor yield? 

 4                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 6    sponsor yields.

 7                 SENATOR RHOADS:   In your bill is 

 8    there any way to track potential abuses by 

 9    physicians?

10                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   I'm sorry, 

11    so sorry.

12                 SENATOR RHOADS:   In your bill is 

13    there any way to track abuses by physicians?  

14                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Track 

15    abuses.

16                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Yes.

17                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Well, there 

18    is a pretty rigorous reporting requirement that 

19    is in place, which is in Section 2899, and 

20    requires annual reports to the Legislature, among 

21    other things.  (Reading.)  The physician shall 

22    document or file the dates of oral requests, the 

23    written requests, attending physician's diagnosis 

24    and prognosis, et cetera.

25                 And then at the -- and then there's 


                                                               4969

 1    reporting requirements to the State Legislature, 

 2    which is in Section -- it's also in Section 2899.

 3                 So -- but, I mean, abuses would 

 4    presumably be part of this report should they 

 5    exist.  Of course we have our criminal statutes 

 6    also in terms of any transgressions that I assume 

 7    would be part of the annual reports to the 

 8    State Legislature.

 9                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Would the sponsor 

10    continue to yield.  

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

12    sponsor yield?

13                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

15    sponsor yields.

16                 SENATOR RHOADS:   But the annual 

17    reports are statistical reports, are they not?  

18    Who would actually review, on a case-by-case 

19    basis, the decisions that are made by physicians 

20    to determine whether there's an anomaly or 

21    whether there's abuse in any particular instance?  

22                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

23    you, Mr. President.  Well, Section 2 of the 

24    section I was referring to, 2899, says the 

25    commissioner -- the Health Commissioner shall 


                                                               4970

 1    prepare a report annually containing relevant 

 2    data regarding utilization and compliance with 

 3    this article, and shall send such report to the 

 4    Legislature and post it on the department's 

 5    website.  I'm assuming that would encompass your 

 6    concerns.

 7                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Would the sponsor 

 8    continue to yield.  

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

10    sponsor yield?

11                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

13    sponsor yields.

14                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Is it not a fact, 

15    though, that the law requires -- or the 

16    legislation requires that the Health Commissioner 

17    must only review a sample of the records and not 

18    records in their entirety?  

19                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes, that 

20    is correct.

21                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Will the sponsor 

22    continue to yield?  

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

24    sponsor yield? 

25                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.


                                                               4971

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 2    sponsor yields.  

 3                 SENATOR RHOADS:   And so on a 

 4    case-by-case basis there is no review of the 

 5    decisions made by individual doctors, on a 

 6    case-by-case basis.

 7                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 8    you, Mr. President.  It is a sample.

 9                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Will the sponsor 

10    continue to yield.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

12    sponsor yield? 

13                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

15    sponsor yields.

16                 SENATOR RHOADS:   When a physician 

17    is evaluating a patient to make a determination 

18    as to whether or not they qualify, there is no 

19    requirement that they actually review any of the 

20    records of the patient, correct?

21                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

22    you, Mr. President.  There's no requirement.  

23                 (Reading.)  The commissioner shall 

24    adopt regulations establishing reporting 

25    requirements for physicians taking action under 


                                                               4972

 1    this article.

 2                 There could be.  And that could be 

 3    part of the regulatory process.

 4                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Right.  But will 

 5    the sponsor continue to yield.  

 6                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   But -- if I 

 7    may finish -- of course we don't spell out 

 8    everything, particularly when it comes to medical 

 9    professionals, because we aren't medical 

10    professionals.  At least I'm not.  And I would 

11    leave that to the regulatory process.  Which I 

12    hope, you know, we all would want to review and 

13    comment on at the appropriate time.

14                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Will the sponsor 

15    continue to yield.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

17    sponsor yield?

18                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

20    sponsor yields.

21                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Well, Senator, 

22    we're talking about literally life and death.  

23    Don't you feel as though in your legislation 

24    there should be some requirement before a 

25    physician makes a decision between the ability to 


                                                               4973

 1    give medication that will cause death and 

 2    choosing not to do so, that there be some 

 3    requirement that they make a review of the 

 4    medical records of the patient?

 5                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 6    you, Mr. President.  Physicians do that every 

 7    day -- every hour, maybe, every patient they see.  

 8    This is what we ask of our medical establishment.  

 9    We trust them.  We provide support and 

10    professional standards.  We sanction them when 

11    they have gone astray.  But I don't think we zero 

12    in on the minutiae of reporting.

13                 Although the regulations might, but 

14    it's not in this statute.

15                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Will the sponsor 

16    continue to yield.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

18    sponsor yield?

19                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

21    sponsor yields.

22                 SENATOR RHOADS:   In theory, 

23    Senator, I could do a telehealth appointment, 

24    never even seeing the physician that I've gone to 

25    by telehealth for the very first time.  


                                                               4974

 1                 And there's no requirement that they 

 2    review a stitch of my medical records before they 

 3    make a determination as to whether or not they're 

 4    going to give me that pill.  Is that correct?

 5                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 6    you, Mr. President.  Again, similar to your 

 7    previous colleagues' questions, one assumes that 

 8    that's part of their assessment, is of course to 

 9    review medical records.  

10                 How would they possibly make a 

11    determination whether it's the capacity of the 

12    patient, the prognosis for death, or other 

13    features that are required in this, without 

14    having a serious review of the patient and a 

15    relationship that helps them make that 

16    determination?  

17                 SENATOR RHOADS:   On the bill 

18    briefly.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

20    Rhoads on the bill.

21                 SENATOR RHOADS:   I agree with you, 

22    Senator.  Which is why it begs the question, why 

23    is it not in the bill?  There is nothing in the 

24    bill that makes the requirement that they 

25    actually review any of the medical records of the 


                                                               4975

 1    patient.

 2                 If the sponsor will continue to 

 3    yield.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 5    sponsor yield?  Will the sponsor yield?

 6                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 8    sponsor yields.  

 9                 Excuse me.  Senator Rhoads, I just 

10    want to remind you you've hit 20 minutes of 

11    debate time, and there's approximately 35 minutes 

12    total time left.  Just so that we keep track of 

13    time.

14                 Senator Hoylman-Sigal yields.

15                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you, 

16    Mr. President.  I appreciate that.

17                 In fact, when we're talking about a 

18    review by the Commissioner of Health of this 

19    sampling, the death certificates from the 

20    individual patients actually will not list the 

21    medication as the cause of death.  In fact, 

22    physicians are specifically instructed not to put 

23    the medication as a cause of death on the death 

24    certificate, is that not correct?  

25                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 


                                                               4976

 1    you, Mr. President.  Yes, it is true that the -- 

 2    only the underlying cause of death would be 

 3    designated on the death certificate.

 4                 The -- according to the CDC, their 

 5    guidance states that the mechanism of death 

 6    should not be reported as the immediate cause of 

 7    death because it is not specifically related to 

 8    the disease process.

 9                 So we're following CDC guidance in 

10    that regard.

11                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Will the sponsor 

12    continue to yield.  

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

14    sponsor yield?

15                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

17    sponsor yields.  

18                 SENATOR RHOADS:   So if there's no 

19    review of medical records, if there's no 

20    mental-health evaluation and you're going upon 

21    the recommendation of a doctor that is not a 

22    trained psychologist to determine the mental 

23    health of the patient, and the death certificate 

24    itself does not list the medication as the cause 

25    of death, what is the commissioner supposed to 


                                                               4977

 1    review when making these determinations?  Is the 

 2    bill specific as to that?

 3                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 4    you, Mr. President.  Well, I mean, in terms of 

 5    death certificates it's my understanding of them 

 6    that they're used to understand trends in 

 7    diseases by public health officials.  

 8                 And we do have concerns that I'm 

 9    sure you can appreciate that you would want to 

10    balance the confidentiality of families and 

11    information that's disclosed on a death 

12    certificate.

13                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Would the sponsor 

14    continue to yield.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

16    sponsor yield? 

17                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

19    sponsor yields.  

20                 SENATOR RHOADS:   What's the -- what 

21    is in your bill to prevent a physician from 

22    potentially taking the easy way out?  In other 

23    words, you have a patient that's taking up 

24    hospital space, that's occupying that physician's 

25    time.  What's the incentive behind that doctor 


                                                               4978

 1    simply not making a determination or perhaps 

 2    suggesting to the patient that this might be a 

 3    better option for them?  

 4                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 5    you, Mr. President.  Well, I think it is the 

 6    standards to which -- the high standards to which 

 7    we hold our medical profession.  And I think we 

 8    have great respect and we have created, through 

 9    our scope of practice, standards for physicians 

10    that we expect them to adhere to.

11                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Will the sponsor 

12    yield.  

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

14    sponsor yield? 

15                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

17    sponsor yields.

18                 SENATOR RHOADS:   In fact, when 

19    there's a review by a second physician, there is 

20    even no requirement in the bill that the second 

21    physician not be in the same practice that the 

22    original doctor's in.  Is that correct?

23                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

24    you, Mr. President, yes, that's correct.  

25                 SENATOR RHOADS:   So you can have 


                                                               4979

 1    within one -- will the sponsor continue to yield.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 3    sponsor yield?

 4                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 6    sponsor yields.  

 7                 SENATOR RHOADS:   So in fact you can 

 8    have one physician that is swearing to something 

 9    and someone else in the same practice says that 

10    that's correct.  It doesn't have to be an 

11    independent review by another doctor in another 

12    practice.

13                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

14    you, Mr. President.  I -- I would consider a 

15    second opinion to be independent.  

16                 I don't -- again, I think we hold 

17    our physicians to high standards, as we should.  

18    And I'm, you know, confident, based on the 

19    experience of the 11 states preceding us, that 

20    physicians know what they're doing when it comes 

21    to prescribing this medication, as well as 

22    assessing a patient's ability to make these 

23    decisions for themselves and, most importantly, 

24    to determine whether they have a terminal 

25    diagnosis or not.


                                                               4980

 1                 We trust physicians for a reason.  

 2    We can't legislate the minutiae of the 

 3    doctor-patient relationship.  We can perhaps fill 

 4    in some of the blanks with regulation, which 

 5    we're seeking the Health Department to do.  That 

 6    I think is the appropriate approach toward a 

 7    complicated scenario such as the practice of 

 8    medicine.

 9                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Will the sponsor 

10    continue to yield.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

12    sponsor yield? 

13                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

15    sponsor yields.

16                 SENATOR RHOADS:   In the interests 

17    of time, and in deference to my colleagues who 

18    have some follow-up questions I'm sure, isn't it 

19    a fact that the bill prohibits insurers from 

20    telling patients that this is an option but it 

21    does not prohibit insurers from stopping them 

22    from denying certain treatments that could 

23    prolong their lives?

24                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

25    you, Mr. President.  There are specific 


                                                               4981

 1    protections from insurance pressure, if that's 

 2    what you would like to call it.  Insurance 

 3    companies, providers, would not be allowed to 

 4    provide unprompted information to patients about 

 5    coverage for medical aid in dying without a 

 6    request for such information from the patient or 

 7    as part of some sort of general package of 

 8    information that they provide to their customers, 

 9    generally speaking, on their insurance coverage.

10                 No health insurer can deny coverage 

11    for any care otherwise covered because a patient 

12    requested medical aid in dying.  And in most 

13    cases, these patients are actually in Medicare or 

14    Medicaid at this point.  The statistic is 88 to 

15    98 percent of medical-aid-in-dying recipients are 

16    under one of those two programs.

17                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Will the sponsor 

18    continue to yield.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

20    sponsor yield?

21                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

23    sponsor yields.  

24                 SENATOR RHOADS:   And how about the 

25    2 to 12 percent, using your statistics in that 


                                                               4982

 1    case, of individuals that may not have any health 

 2    insurance coverage at all?  Are you concerned 

 3    that a decision might be made based upon the 

 4    inability to pay for further treatments, as 

 5    opposed to -- as opposed to simply taking the 

 6    pill to avoid the financial burden that's being 

 7    placed upon the family?  

 8                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 9    you, Mr. President, I'm always concerned about a 

10    patient's ability to pay and obtain medical 

11    services, yes.

12                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Will the sponsor 

13    continue to yield.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

15    sponsor yield?

16                 SENATOR RHOADS:   What safeguards --

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

18    Hoylman-Sigal, do you yield?

19                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

21    sponsor yields.  

22                 I'm sorry, Senator Rhoads.

23                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you.  

24                 And what safeguards are in place to 

25    prevent aid in dying from becoming the default 


                                                               4983

 1    end-of-life path in institutions that are 

 2    experiencing staff shortages, financial 

 3    pressures, or a low Medicaid reimbursement?  

 4                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 5    you, Mr. President.  You know, we have seen that 

 6    medical aid in dying -- again, I point to 

 7    relatively recent history, but 27 years' worth -- 

 8    that in fully 38 percent of the cases where the 

 9    patient has requested medication for medical aid 

10    in dying, they don't -- they don't take advantage 

11    of it.  They don't use it.

12                 You know, it seems to be -- and we 

13    heard this today, at our press conference -- that 

14    medical aid in dying is as much about peace of 

15    mind and an assurance that a patient knows that 

16    that's an option.  They may request the 

17    medication.  But so many of them never end up 

18    utilizing it.  And that's the peace, that's part 

19    of the peacefulness of this process.

20                 Today we heard someone say that, you 

21    know, they've been given a terminal diagnosis and 

22    by being able to access medical aid in dying, 

23    they're going to be able to live life because 

24    they know that they will have that option.

25                 So medical aid in dying is about 


                                                               4984

 1    living, people who have been given a terminal 

 2    illness and a new pathway to plan their death, 

 3    but enjoy life fully in the meantime.  That's 

 4    what's really inspirational about this movement.

 5                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Will the sponsor 

 6    continue to yield.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 8    Hoylman-Sigal, do you yield?

 9                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

11    sponsor yields.

12                 Senator Rhoads, you're approaching 

13    half an hour at present, just to keep to the ball 

14    game that we're in.

15                 SENATOR RHOADS:   What's the time 

16    left?

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   We are 

18    actually at half an hour.  I just wanted to -- 

19                 (Overtalk.)

20                 SENATOR RHOADS:   I'll just go on 

21    the --

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   -- 

23    understand the context.  

24                 SENATOR RHOADS:   -- bill, then.  

25    I'll just go on the bill, then.


                                                               4985

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 2    Rhoads on the bill.  Briefly, if possible.

 3                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Briefly on the 

 4    bill.

 5                 We've spoken a lot about slippery 

 6    slopes.  This bill unfortunately is poorly 

 7    drafted.  It leaves so many questions that go 

 8    unanswered.  

 9                 And while we're asked to have the 

10    confidence that regulations are going to fill in 

11    the blanks, in a case where you're literally 

12    talking about the difference between life and 

13    death, this Legislature has the responsibility -- 

14    before we unleash a powerful weapon into the 

15    hands of someone -- to ensure that there's 

16    sufficient guidelines, safeguards, to make sure 

17    that this process is not being abused.

18                 You have physicians who are not 

19    psychiatrists making determinations as to 

20    mental health and capacity.  You have 

21    unfortunately insufficient regulations to ensure 

22    that we're not contributing to a culture of 

23    suicide.  

24                 We spend a lot of time in this 

25    chamber, rightfully so, talking about mental 


                                                               4986

 1    health, talking about the challenges that young 

 2    people have, talking about the challenges that 

 3    our police officers have, the challenges that 

 4    other individuals in our society have about being 

 5    able to struggle with the daily problems of life.

 6                 And yet what we're saying in this 

 7    bill is that there are times when it's okay to 

 8    end your own life.  I don't think that that's 

 9    something that we should be doing.  I intend to 

10    vote no on this legislation.  

11                 Thank you for the courtesy, 

12    Mr. President.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

14    you, Senator Rhoads.

15                 Senator Helming, why do you rise? 

16                 SENATOR HELMING:   Thank you, 

17    Mr. President.  On the bill.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   

19    Senator Helming on the bill.

20                 SENATOR HELMING:   Duchenne muscular 

21    dystrophy is a genetic disorder that runs in my 

22    family.  It causes progressive muscular 

23    deterioration and weakness, and tragically, it is 

24    terminal.  It impacts most of the males -- or 

25    many of the males in my family.  


                                                               4987

 1                 Growing up, my first pals were one 

 2    of my uncles and my cousins.  We were all around 

 3    the same age.  We hung out together, we had a 

 4    good time, despite the fact that Duchenne's 

 5    confined them to wheelchairs for much of their 

 6    childhood.  But we -- like I said, we had a great 

 7    time together, shared a lot of memories, made a 

 8    lot of memories.  

 9                 Sadly, all that came to an end when 

10    we entered young adulthood, when this devastating 

11    disease took them way, way too early.

12                 Under the proposed medical aid in 

13    dying bill that's before us, individuals with a 

14    terminal illness like Duchenne's would be 

15    allowed -- at age 18 -- to request and 

16    self-administer life-ending medication.  And they 

17    could do so without the knowledge or the consent 

18    of their parents or their guardians.

19                 Now, many of the constituents that 

20    I've heard from on this issue, including those 

21    who support the concept of medical aid in dying, 

22    they're frankly shocked to learn that this 

23    legislation permits assisted suicide beginning at 

24    age 18 -- the same age as many of our high school 

25    seniors who are graduating this month.


                                                               4988

 1                 They're even more surprised to learn 

 2    that no parental involvement is required by this 

 3    bill, not even notification to their parents.  As 

 4    a mother and a grandmother, this is so hard for 

 5    me to imagine.  

 6                 We've heard a lot of back-and-forth 

 7    tonight about the bill and the protections for 

 8    patients.  But the bill's so-called guardrails 

 9    are, in my view, inadequate for people of any 

10    age.  

11                 Mental health referrals, for 

12    example, would be optional.  They're not 

13    mandatory.  And the required evaluations by both 

14    the primary physician and the second opinion from 

15    a consulting physician could be provided without 

16    ever seeing that patient in person.  In fact, 

17    it's my understanding that so long as that 

18    physician is licensed to practice in the State of 

19    New York, they could be anywhere in the world and 

20    offer their opinion without ever, ever seeing the 

21    patient in person.

22                 It goes on, too.  Witness statements 

23    can be signed by complete strangers.  The bill 

24    language says that the witness only has to 

25    confirm the patient has provided proof of 


                                                               4989

 1    identity.  You could grab anyone off the street 

 2    and ask them to do that.

 3                 Equally concerning is the bill's 

 4    failure to establish safeguards for tracking or 

 5    recovering unused doses of these lethal 

 6    medications.  Now, just like so many people in 

 7    this chamber, I've worked hard for so many years 

 8    to reduce the number of drug overdoses, 

 9    especially in our rural communities.  And I worry 

10    about what happens when these powerful drugs 

11    remain in homes, potentially leading to tragic 

12    misuse or diversion onto our streets.  

13                 And it's not lost on me that 

14    tonight, the same day that this body passed my 

15    Rural Suicide Prevention Council bill, we're also 

16    considering a medical aid in dying bill.

17                 Mr. President, life is precious.  I 

18    know we all believe that and value that.  It's a 

19    blessing.  And I recognize that for so many, 

20    including my own family members, that life can be 

21    challenging and painful.  But this bill does not 

22    offer what I feel are adequate, necessary 

23    safeguards and protections.  And that is 

24    something that we absolutely must get right on an 

25    issue as serious as this.


                                                               4990

 1                 I heard people talk about this being 

 2    a slippery slope.  I believe it is a slippery 

 3    slope.  And for these reasons and so many others, 

 4    I will be voting no tonight, and I urge all my 

 5    colleagues to do the same.

 6                 Thank you.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

 8    you, Senator Helming.

 9                 Senator Walczyk, why do you rise?

10                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Thank you, 

11    Mr. President.  Would the sponsor yield.  

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

13    sponsor yield?

14                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

16    sponsor yields.

17                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   The prefrontal 

18    cortex, do you know at what age that's considered 

19    fully developed?  

20                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

21    you, Mr. President.  I think it's (pausing) 57?  

22    I'm kidding.  

23                 (Laughter.)

24                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   I'm 

25    assuming it's at 23, something around there.


                                                               4991

 1                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

 2    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

 3    yield.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 5    sponsor yield?

 6                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 8    sponsor yields.

 9                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Before I joined 

10    the State Legislature I didn't know the answer to 

11    this question either.  It seems pretty medical 

12    and technical.  But I've heard the age 25 used in 

13    this chamber and down the hall for everything 

14    from excusing youth from crimes that they've 

15    committed in the State of New York to allowing 

16    youth to participate in summer youth employment 

17    programs up to the age of 25 in New York City.

18                 At what age will somebody be 

19    eligible in New York State for assisted suicide 

20    under your legislation?

21                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

22    you, Mr. President, 18.

23                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

24    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

25    yield?


                                                               4992

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 2    sponsor yield?

 3                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 5    sponsor yields.

 6                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Why not until the 

 7    prefrontal cortex is fully developed?  

 8                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 9    you, Mr. President.  Eighteen is the age of 

10    majority in the State of New York.  And the 

11    prefrontal cortex is a scientific designation 

12    which, for better or worse, has no bearing in 

13    this bill or in any other part of our statutes.

14                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

15    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

16    yield.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

18    sponsor yield?

19                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

21    sponsor yields.

22                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   I don't want to 

23    belabor it, but it did have a pretty consistent 

24    context in decision-making.  The prefrontal 

25    cortex, when it's fully developed, says that 


                                                               4993

 1    somebody is an adult human who has full 

 2    decision-making ability.  

 3                 Why was the age 18 instead of 25 

 4    chosen in your bill?

 5                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 6    you, Mr. President.  Again, that determination, 

 7    the scientific assessment that you have shared 

 8    with us, has no grounding in New York statutes.  

 9    So we followed the age of majority as it is 

10    throughout the rest of our laws.

11                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

12    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

13    yield.  

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

15    sponsor yield?

16                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

18    sponsor yields.

19                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   I want to follow 

20    up with -- there was some discussion with my 

21    esteemed colleague here about definitions of 

22    terminal illness.  Under your bill, would 

23    persistent or chronic suicidal ideation -- if two 

24    medical professionals believe that this is 

25    incurable for a patient and that patient is going 


                                                               4994

 1    to terminate their own life within six months, 

 2    would chronic suicidal ideation fall under 

 3    terminal illness or condition by the bill that 

 4    you're proposing here?

 5                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 6    you, Mr. President, no.

 7                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

 8    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

 9    yield.  

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

11    sponsor yield? 

12                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

14    sponsor yields.

15                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   With regard to 

16    supposed strong checks and balances in this bill, 

17    which is to have two doctors signing off on this, 

18    is there any requirement in the bill that any 

19    records of the consulting physician be kept with 

20    the patient's medical record?

21                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

22    you, Mr. President, yes, there are reporting 

23    requirements, as we've discussed earlier this 

24    evening.

25                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 


                                                               4995

 1    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

 2    yield.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 4    sponsor yield? 

 5                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 7    sponsor yields.

 8                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And is there any 

 9    requirement that any oversight would be done to 

10    ensure, before the lethal prescription is given, 

11    that a consulting physician actually did evaluate 

12    the patient?

13                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

14    you, Mr. President.  As we discussed earlier, 

15    built into the requirement that the consulting 

16    physician make that determination is the 

17    understanding that he or she would have to spend 

18    time with the patient in order to accomplish that 

19    goal.

20                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And through you, 

21    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

22    yield.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

24    sponsor yield?

25                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.


                                                               4996

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 2    sponsor yields.

 3                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   But it's only the 

 4    attending physician's notes that need to be 

 5    described to DOH how all steps have been followed 

 6    by the attending physician.  This strongly 

 7    hinders a paper trail and oversight of the law 

 8    because there is no required documentation from 

 9    the consulting physician that must be kept on 

10    file anywhere.  

11                 The consulting physician must send a 

12    letter to the attending physician after the 

13    evaluation, but this letter or proof of the 

14    second physician looking at the patient does not 

15    need to be turned in to the Department of Health, 

16    does it?

17                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

18    you, Mr. President.  That is not explicitly 

19    stated in this bill.

20                 I would again suggest that the 

21    potential for regulations to fill in gaps, and 

22    for the public and public officials to comment on 

23    the recordkeeping components, would be something 

24    I would encourage my colleague to participate in.

25                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 


                                                               4997

 1    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

 2    yield.  

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 4    sponsor yield?

 5                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 7    sponsor yields.

 8                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   I agree.  I wish 

 9    there were provisions for that protection and 

10    oversight in this bill.

11                 What legal recourse will families 

12    have if they believe a loved one was misled, 

13    coerced or insufficiently informed?  And what 

14    protections exist for whistleblowers in care 

15    facilities?

16                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

17    you, Mr. President.  There are a number of 

18    criminal statutes that could be pursued by family 

19    members or others, including in the area of 

20    coercion.  

21                 But as was stated earlier, there are 

22    virtually no examples of coercion in the 

23    11 states that have had medical aid in dying in 

24    dying, going back to Oregon's in 1997.  

25                 And presumably the family members or 


                                                               4998

 1    friends could seek sanctions or other actions 

 2    against the attending physicians if they had 

 3    evidence of some nefarious activities.  Once 

 4    again, though, we have virtually no examples of 

 5    that happening in the over 10,000 -- over 10,000 

 6    cases of patients ingesting medical aid in dying 

 7    medication, but not a single example of a 

 8    nefarious effort by a physician or family member 

 9    to act in an untoward manner for whatever reason.  

10                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

11    Mr. President -- actually, on the bill, 

12    Mr. President, very briefly.  

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

14    Walczyk on the bill.

15                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   So if we don't 

16    require that there's good recordkeeping by the 

17    attending or the physician in a patient's file 

18    for the family to even get, then I could imagine 

19    that there won't be a lot of cases for coercion, 

20    because the evidence that you said that they 

21    could seek just won't be there because your bill 

22    doesn't require those records to be kept.

23                 Through you, Mr. President, would 

24    the sponsor continue to yield.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 


                                                               4999

 1    sponsor yield? 

 2                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 4    sponsor yields.  

 5                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   What safeguards 

 6    apply when a patient has no immediate family or 

 7    advocate?

 8                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 9    you, Mr. President.  The physician is supposed to 

10    counsel the patient in the absence of family 

11    members, but of course that is a potential 

12    scenario for any patient seeing a doctor.  

13                 I wanted to refer back to the 

14    whistleblower.  I think I missed a response.  

15    Whistleblowers would be held -- (reading) a 

16    healthcare provider or other person should not be 

17    subject to employment, credentialing, or other 

18    contractual liability or penalty for any 

19    reasonable good-faith action or refusing to act.  

20                 So there is a protection for someone 

21    who is alerting authorities or an institutional 

22    colleague to some untoward action.  I just wanted 

23    to mention that.

24                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

25    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 


                                                               5000

 1    yield.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 3    sponsor yield?

 4                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 6    sponsor yields.

 7                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Who ensures that 

 8    there is proper review and oversight when you're 

 9    talking about patients that have no family or 

10    advocate?

11                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

12    you, Mr. President.  It would be as set forth in 

13    the bill, with two physicians and the witnesses 

14    to the request for medication.

15                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

16    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

17    yield?  

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

19    sponsor yield?

20                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

22    sponsor yields.

23                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Would this be 

24    available to parents with unemancipated children?  

25                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 


                                                               5001

 1    you, Mr. President.  I presume the answer is yes.  

 2    Or I don't -- I don't know why it would not be.

 3                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

 4    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

 5    yield.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 7    sponsor yield?

 8                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

10    sponsor yields.  

11                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Does your bill 

12    speak to this at all?  How will the state 

13    approach cases where parents seek aid in dying 

14    while still raising children, and what ethical or 

15    legal considerations apply in those instances?

16                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

17    you, Mr. President.  

18                 Again, looking at both the practice 

19    among states that have had medical aid in dying 

20    and the fact that we don't prescribe medical 

21    restrictions on parents of unemancipated 

22    children, I think we would just follow the normal 

23    course of patient autonomy, which is the kind of 

24    fundamental basis of this legislation.

25                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 


                                                               5002

 1    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

 2    yield?

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 4    sponsor yield? 

 5                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 7    sponsor yields.

 8                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   So there's 

 9    nothing in your bill that would address how the 

10    state would handle unemancipated children if a 

11    parent were to take their own life this way?

12                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

13    you, Mr. President, no.  And I can't imagine that 

14    we -- the answer is no.  Let me leave it at that.  

15    I won't editorialize.

16                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

17    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

18    yield.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

20    sponsor yield?

21                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

23    sponsor yields.

24                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Would the 

25    children in those types of -- you know, we have a 


                                                               5003

 1    robust Family Court system that considers whole 

 2    families.  And would the children have a voice in 

 3    that situation, or would it just be the 

 4    physicians?

 5                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 6    you, Mr. President.  The physician is advised 

 7    to -- well, is required to speak to the patient 

 8    and share the options available to him or her, 

 9    presumably, and could encourage family discussion 

10    on this matter, but there's certainly no 

11    requirement.

12                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

13    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

14    yield.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

16    sponsor yield? 

17                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

19    sponsor yields.

20                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   How can you 

21    ensure that patients will not be refused coverage 

22    of life-saving treatment and instead offered 

23    cheaper suicide drugs by the government or by 

24    their insurance?  

25                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Well, we 


                                                               5004

 1    have -- through you, Mr. President, we have in 

 2    the bill that no health insurer can deny coverage 

 3    for any care otherwise covered because of 

 4    patient-requested medical aid in dying, 

 5    Section 2899.

 6                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

 7    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

 8    yield.

 9                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

11    Walczyk, you have approximately five minutes 

12    left, as a courtesy.

13                 The sponsor yields.

14                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   The question is 

15    really about the incentive, though.  If the 

16    suicide drugs are cheaper than the medication, 

17    what protections are there in this bill to ensure 

18    that a facility or an insurance is not interested 

19    in pushing suicide drugs instead of continuing to 

20    support those who are terminally ill?

21                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

22    you, Mr. President.  I mean, these patients are 

23    at the end of their lives and they've been 

24    through the medical establishment for months or 

25    years and as a result have been given this 


                                                               5005

 1    terminal diagnosis.  

 2                 This is not a front-end 

 3    determination, as we've seen in the 11 states 

 4    that have medical aid in dying.  It is the end 

 5    for so many of these patients, six months or 

 6    fewer.

 7                 So I think this scenario doesn't 

 8    lend itself to that hypothetical that you pose.  

 9    But again, health insurance companies cannot deny 

10    coverage or care based on the request for medical 

11    aid in dying.

12                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

13    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

14    yield.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

16    sponsor yield? 

17                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

19    sponsor yields.

20                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   You mention the 

21    11 states that have already done this.  In 

22    Oregon, people have self-reported that financial 

23    implications of treatment is one of the reasons 

24    that they have requested lethal life-ending 

25    drugs.  Isn't that true?


                                                               5006

 1                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 2    you, Mr. President.  I understand that's around 

 3    5 percent of the Oregon cases, according to my 

 4    statistics.

 5                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

 6    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

 7    yield.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 9    sponsor yield?

10                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

12    sponsor yields.

13                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Isn't it also 

14    true that in Oregon chronic conditions are 

15    allowed under the same language?

16                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

17    you, Mr. President, my understanding is no.

18                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

19    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

20    yield.  

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

22    sponsor yield?

23                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

25    sponsor yields.  


                                                               5007

 1                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Since treatment 

 2    isn't a specific requirement under this bill -- I 

 3    know you're addressing a different way -- 

 4    wouldn't any treatable condition that could be 

 5    fatal without treatment then qualify?

 6                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 7    you, Mr. President, no.

 8                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

 9    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

10    yield.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

12    sponsor yield? 

13                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

15    sponsor yields.

16                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   So Oregon has 

17    reported showing the median length of time of the 

18    prescriber, slash, patient relationship is only 

19    five weeks.  How can a physician without a 

20    relationship with a patient properly assess for 

21    depression or coercion happening at home -- isn't 

22    happening at home by abusive caregivers?  

23                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

24    you, Mr. President, I think a medical 

25    professional can make an assessment in 


                                                               5008

 1    five weeks.  But again, I'm not myself, 

 2    obviously, a medical professional.  

 3                 But to me -- look, I'm a lawyer, I 

 4    think I could get a fair sense of a case that a 

 5    client brings to me certainly within five weeks.  

 6    But I take your point that it's complicated.  But 

 7    I would think five weeks seems like a reasonable 

 8    amount of time.

 9                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

10    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

11    yield.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

13    sponsor yield?

14                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

16    sponsor yields.

17                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   We're not really 

18    talking about a case in a courtroom here or a 

19    traffic violation, though.  We're talking about 

20    the end of someone's life.  And in Oregon, 

21    five weeks is actually the average, suggesting 

22    that they're making these determinations in much 

23    quicker than five weeks with physicians that 

24    they've never met before.  

25                 How can they determine what 


                                                               5009

 1    somebody's whole life circumstances are, what 

 2    their caregiving situation is, all of their past 

 3    medical history, even a terminal illness 

 4    determination, within a five-week-or-less time 

 5    frame?

 6                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 7    you, Mr. President.  I don't know where my 

 8    colleague, you know, makes that assessment that 

 9    five weeks isn't enough time.  I don't frankly 

10    know if he has a deep understanding of the 

11    determination of a terminal illness.

12                 I will say this, though, that it's 

13    not just one physician, it's two.  And combined 

14    with the potential of a mental-health evaluation, 

15    with discussions with family members and friends 

16    and the patient, I think the physician begins to 

17    understand the totality of a patient's 

18    circumstances.

19                 And again, five weeks?  Over a month 

20    of consultation, to me, on the surface -- 

21    notwithstanding the fact that this is obviously a 

22    crucial decision -- seems like a reasonable 

23    amount of time.  But I'm basing my decision based 

24    on my own personal understanding, as I guess you 

25    are as well.


                                                               5010

 1                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

 2    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

 3    yield.  

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 5    Walczyk, we've hit the two-hour debate time, but 

 6    I will permit this to be your final question.  Or 

 7    if you'd like to go on the bill, either/or.  But 

 8    we've hit the two-minute debate time.

 9                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   I'll just make it 

10    my final question.  Thank you, Mr. President.  

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

12    sponsor yield?  

13                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Yes.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

15    sponsor yields.

16                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   In the Assembly 

17    debate -- so this has already passed the other 

18    house -- the sponsor over there said chronic 

19    conditions without treatment could indeed 

20    possibly qualify.  

21                 So when you're considering that 

22    chronic conditions are allowed under this 

23    language if the patient has decided not to 

24    continue treatment and their life would end 

25    within six months, how do you square that?  And 


                                                               5011

 1    how are you having a differing opinion here today 

 2    in the Senate than the sponsor did in the 

 3    Assembly?

 4                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Through 

 5    you, Mr. President.  I'm not aware of the 

 6    determination in the other house.  But I will go 

 7    back to the word that is in the bill, 

 8    "irreversible."  And a chronic condition is not 

 9    one that is irreversible, so in my opinion would 

10    not qualify under medical aid in dying.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

12    you, colleagues.

13                 Based upon the Senate rules, the 

14    two-hour debate limit has elapsed and debate is 

15    closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.

16                 As a point of privilege, during vote 

17    explanations, just to remind everybody about the 

18    Senate rules, the sponsor of the bill has 

19    five minutes and everyone else has two minutes.  

20                 We would like to -- we will enforce 

21    that strictly today.  Thank you very much.

22                 Read the last section.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

24    act shall take effect immediately.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 


                                                               5012

 1    roll.

 2                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 4    Harckham to explain his vote.

 5                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Thank you very 

 6    much, Mr. President.  

 7                 I want to first thank the 

 8    Majority Leader for bringing this bill to the 

 9    floor.  I want to thank Senator Hoylman-Sigal for 

10    an incredible job working on this bill and 

11    getting it to this point.  I want to thank 

12    Diane Savino, former Senator, for her work on 

13    this bill.

14                 Mr. President, this bill is about 

15    personal choice and this bill is about dignity.  

16    I want to thank all of my constituents on both 

17    sides of this issue who wrote to me, who called 

18    me, who spoke with me personally.  

19                 I see the divide in my own family.  

20    My father was a devout Catholic, and the thought 

21    of something like this truly appalled him.  My 

22    mother watched her mother die a very painful 

23    death from cancer, and we spoke about this.  And 

24    as you know, she passed a few months ago.  

25                 And she was in hospice, to the 


                                                               5013

 1    point, and when we talked about the morphine 

 2    being administered and how it would come in 

 3    gradually, she literally said to me one day, why 

 4    can't she have it all at once?  And I don't say 

 5    that to be melodramatic, but that was her choice.  

 6                 At 98 her mind was sharp, she was 

 7    reading two newspapers a day, she read four books 

 8    a week.  Her body had failed her; she lost her 

 9    dignity.  

10                 So this bill will not help my 

11    mother, but it will help someone else's.  I vote 

12    aye.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

14    Harckham to be recorded in the affirmative.

15                 Senator Scarcella-Spanton to explain 

16    her vote.

17                 SENATOR SCARCELLA-SPANTON:   Thank 

18    you, Mr. President.

19                 It is with great pride and relief 

20    for countless New Yorkers that I rise today to 

21    speak on a truly landmark piece of legislation 

22    which I have been an ardent supporter of since 

23    day one.  We are not merely passing a bill, but 

24    we are answering a call to compassion and to 

25    dignity.  


                                                               5014

 1                 Medical aid in dying has been a 

 2    cause that I have supported from the very 

 3    beginning, long before I had the privilege of 

 4    serving in this chamber, because I have always 

 5    believed that the right to die with dignity is 

 6    fundamental to what it means to live with 

 7    dignity.

 8                 This bill was introduced nearly a 

 9    decade ago by my predecessor, Senator Diane 

10    Savino, who's actually here with us today in the 

11    chamber.  And she's always said that this bill is 

12    not about suicide, but it is about taking control 

13    of your own fate at the end of your life.  

14                 She had the courage to put this 

15    conversation on the table, and it truly is an 

16    honor today that we carry this work across the 

17    finish line.  Thank you.

18                 We owe an extraordinary debt of 

19    gratitude to Senator Brad Hoylman, who carried 

20    this bill to success, guiding it with grace, and 

21    allowing me to work as a true partner.  And you 

22    never made me feel like I was stepping on your 

23    toes, I appreciate that.  I'm so lucky to have 

24    worked with you, tackling this issue from 

25    different sides.  Brad will always tell you he is 


                                                               5015

 1    a gay Manhattan Jewish man, and I am a Catholic 

 2    lady from Staten Island.  So we come from 

 3    different sides on this.  But we made one hell of 

 4    a team together.

 5                 I also want to thank Assemblymember 

 6    Amy Paulin, whose steadfast advocacy turned this 

 7    into a reality.  She's also here.  She got this 

 8    done in the Assembly.  

 9                 And of course the organizers, 

10    Corinne Carey and Amanda Cavanaugh, who brought 

11    their entire heart and soul into making sure they 

12    got this done, along with every single advocate 

13    who stood in the halls week after week, sharing 

14    their deeply personal stories and their yellow 

15    shirts, with their posters, with their candles, 

16    doing so peacefully and making sure that we heard 

17    the stories of their loved ones.  

18                 We heard a lot of what-ifs today 

19    from the other side.  We hear about the slippery 

20    slope.  But I can stand here confidently and 

21    say --

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

23    Scarcella-Spanton, could you conclude, please.  

24                 SENATOR SCARCELLA-SPANTON:   Yes.

25                 I can stand here confidently and say 


                                                               5016

 1    that this bill has all the issues that have been 

 2    addressed, and I proudly vote aye.

 3                 Thank you.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 5    Scarcella-Spanton to be recorded in the 

 6    affirmative.

 7                 Senator Rivera to explain his vote.

 8                 SENATOR RIVERA:   Thank you, 

 9    Mr. President.  

10                 I proudly vote in the affirmative on 

11    this bill.  And while I think that some of the 

12    debate was in good faith, I think that we have to 

13    underline the fact that there were some 

14    disingenuous hypotheticals that kind of made it 

15    seem as though physicians aren't professionals.  

16                 This is a bill that has been thought 

17    through over and over and over again.  And 

18    ultimately, as some of my colleagues have 

19    mentioned, it is about giving a person the 

20    opportunity and the dignity to choose how they go 

21    out.  

22                 If you have somebody who is making 

23    this decision, this is not something that is 

24    taken lightly.  And the bill, which I'm very 

25    thankful of, is built so that it has these steps 


                                                               5017

 1    that have to be taken.  As some of my colleagues 

 2    have suggested, this is something that today's 

 3    Tuesday and if tomorrow's Wednesday and I choose 

 4    to do it, then on Thursday I can take this.  This 

 5    is not the way it works.  

 6                 As opposed to that, there's all 

 7    sorts of levels that are established here.  

 8    Physicians, two of them, have to make independent 

 9    determinations under the penalty of perjury.  

10    They're giving up their license if they're going 

11    to make the wrong decision here.  They're making 

12    a determination for someone who's already made 

13    that decision and who has to be able to do it 

14    themselves.  

15                 This is a decision that is made by 

16    people who are in deep, deep pain.  I have talked 

17    to many family members over the years who have 

18    told me a lot about the suffering that some of 

19    their family members have gone through.  This 

20    would give them an opportunity to actually 

21    transition in the way that they see fit.  

22                 And I thank all of my colleagues who 

23    have worked so hard to get it to this point.  I 

24    vote in the affirmative.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 


                                                               5018

 1    Rivera to be recorded in the affirmative.

 2                 Senator May to explain her vote.

 3                 SENATOR MAY:   Thank you, 

 4    Mr. President.

 5                 I also want to thank 

 6    Senator Hoylman-Sigal and the Majority Leader and 

 7    my colleagues who are supporting this bill, and 

 8    the advocates on both sides who brought a real 

 9    dignity to this debate.  

10                 In 1988 my husband died of the most 

11    painful form of cancer there is.  He was 32 years 

12    old.  And initially the doctors didn't want to 

13    control his pain because they said his pain was 

14    their only guide to the progression of the 

15    disease.  When they finally ran out of ways to 

16    treat the disease, they didn't want to give him 

17    pain control because they said morphine was too 

18    addictive.  

19                 I had to move heaven and earth to 

20    find a doctor who would prescribe him morphine in 

21    the doses that would actually control his pain, 

22    and then to find a pharmacist who would fill the 

23    prescription.  

24                 And I don't know if the last largest 

25    dose he took also took his life.  But I know that 


                                                               5019

 1    he died in peace.  And I also know that in those 

 2    last few weeks, when he knew he had access to a 

 3    drug that could control his pain, he didn't have 

 4    the kind of anxiety and fear that he had lived 

 5    with for at least a year before that time.

 6                 And so I hear the statistic about 

 7    more than a third of the people who have availed 

 8    themselves of this prescription in other places 

 9    have actually not used it.  I understand that.  

10    Because it isn't about controlling the disease or 

11    controlling the pain, it's about having control 

12    at the end of your life.  

13                 Our medical profession has prolonged 

14    our lives, prolonged our deaths, and people want 

15    some form of control.  And I am very confident 

16    that this will be a way for people to choose the 

17    end of their lives with dignity.  

18                 I vote aye.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

20    May to be recorded in the affirmative.

21                 Senator Gounardes to explain his 

22    vote.

23                 SENATOR GOUNARDES:   Thank you, 

24    Mr. President.

25                 In my seven years in this chamber 


                                                               5020

 1    I've cast thousands and thousands of votes, and 

 2    this, to me personally, is probably the hardest 

 3    vote I've taken and I've cast.  

 4                 I've thought about this bill for 

 5    years and years.  I've heard from countless 

 6    people up here in Albany, from my colleagues, 

 7    back home in my district -- people who support 

 8    this bill, people who are opposed to this bill, 

 9    people who are similarly conflicted over this 

10    bill.  

11                 And I've spent countless hours 

12    reflecting on what this bill offers to people and 

13    why it's so important -- really for all the 

14    reasons that Senator May just outlined that she 

15    experienced with her late husband.  

16                 And I've been moved to support this 

17    bill because no matter how conflicted I may have 

18    been, I recognize that this is about giving other 

19    people that choice and that dignity of that 

20    choice.  And that is something that no matter 

21    what background you come from, what belief system 

22    you have, you hold, what values you share, we 

23    cannot impose our views on others in that same 

24    way for them to make that choice.

25                 And so I'm comforted by the 


                                                               5021

 1    safeguards and protections that I know the 

 2    sponsor worked very hard to place into this bill, 

 3    and I trust that in authorizing this avenue for 

 4    people to find hope for themselves and closure 

 5    for themselves and comfort and dignity for 

 6    themselves, that we can actually help not just 

 7    those patients, but their families as well.  

 8                 And for those reasons, I'm be voting 

 9    in the affirmative.  Thank you.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

11    Gounardes to be recorded in the affirmative.

12                 Senator Mayer to explain her vote.

13                 SENATOR MAYER:   Thank you, 

14    Mr. President.

15                 First I'd like to thank my 

16    colleagues who led the fight for this -- 

17    Senator Hoylman-Sigal, Senator Scarcella-Spanton, 

18    Senator Savino, and my colleague from home, 

19    Amy Paulin -- who after many, many years have 

20    brought this bill to the floor.  

21                 This is not a vote I take lightly.  

22    And after much internal debate, I rise to vote in 

23    favor.  Of course, like everyone, I've heard from 

24    so many constituents who deeply and personally 

25    either support or oppose this bill, either for 


                                                               5022

 1    moral or religious reasons or their care and 

 2    concern about the risks for people at the margins 

 3    of societies, and those who are taken advantage 

 4    of.

 5                 But at the end of the day I'm 

 6    supporting this legislation because I believe 

 7    that New Yorkers with terminal illness, 

 8    especially those who are suffering immensely -- 

 9    as we have heard and all of us have 

10    experienced -- deserve the opportunity to choose 

11    to die on their own terms with their own dignity 

12    under the safeguards in this bill.

13                 I respect those who disagree with 

14    me.  I respect those for whom this is a choice 

15    neither they nor their families will ever make.  

16                 But today we say to those who are 

17    able and want to make this choice:  We will make 

18    it available under certain circumstances.  We are 

19    extending our compassion to current and future 

20    New Yorkers facing devastating diagnoses.  Many 

21    will choose not to go down this path.  But for 

22    those who do, this bill offers self-determination 

23    and in some cases peace of mind as they navigate 

24    the end of their lives.

25                 I thank my colleagues.  


                                                               5023

 1                 I vote aye.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 3    Mayer to be recorded in the affirmative.

 4                 Senator Chan to explain his vote.

 5                 SENATOR CHAN:   Thank you, 

 6    Mr. President.

 7                 I just want to remind everyone that 

 8    we live in a state where we can't even take 

 9    pentobarbital home to put our dogs down, our 

10    cats.  But we're going to do it with humans?  

11                 I heard the overwhelming rejection 

12    of this bill from the people of South Brooklyn.  

13    I want to thank my colleagues for talking about 

14    the moral aspects of this bill's policy, 

15    legality.  But wouldn't you know it, there was a 

16    chapter in my life where I was an undercover 

17    narcotics officer on the Lower East Side of 

18    Manhattan.  If I took $20 and walked into 

19    Seward Park in 1999, I could walk away with 

20    Xanax, Klonopin.  I could walk away with 

21    methadone, Viagra.  And during the pandemic it 

22    was hydroxychloroquine.  And soon I will be able 

23    to buy pentobarbital in Seward Park.  

24                 Just because nobody has been caught 

25    committing a crime doesn't mean a crime has not 


                                                               5024

 1    been committed in this regard.  We didn't know 

 2    there was a serial killer in Gilgo Beach on 

 3    Long Island until he was caught, until we 

 4    discovered the bones.  

 5                 So I'm going to have to -- I admire 

 6    the compassion component of this bill, but it's 

 7    just -- too many aspects are bad about this.  

 8    There's no oversight.  I'm going to have to vote 

 9    no on behalf of my district.

10                 Thank you, Mr. President.  

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

12    Chan to be recorded in the negative.

13                 Senator Borrello to explain his 

14    vote.

15                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you, 

16    Mr. President.

17                 I don't take this vote lightly.  

18    Unfortunately, I've known too many people that 

19    have died a painful, horrible death with ALS, 

20    including my uncle Paul Matero.  Very, very 

21    difficult to watch.  

22                 But you know, we're looking at this 

23    today as compassion.  But there's a reason why 

24    the American Medical Association, the AMA, 

25    reiterated today their opposition to this bill.  


                                                               5025

 1    Why?  Because doctors are in the business of 

 2    saving lives.  And they take an oath based on the 

 3    principle of "First, do no harm."  Now we're 

 4    telling doctors to tell someone, counsel them, 

 5    that it's okay to take your own life.  First, do 

 6    no harm.

 7                 Then we're telling those doctors to 

 8    prescribe deadly medication, hand it to someone, 

 9    and let them walk out the door, not knowing 

10    what's going to happen with that medication.  

11    First, do no harm.

12                 The doctors who are supposed to be 

13    in the business of saving lives, prolonging 

14    lives, protecting life, are opposed to this.  

15    Why?  Because first, do no harm.

16                 Today this bill will cause harm, and 

17    that's why I'm voting no.

18                 Thank you, Mr. President.  

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

20    Borrello to be recorded in the negative.

21                 Senator Tedisco to explain his vote.

22                 SENATOR TEDISCO:   Thank you, 

23    Mr. President.  

24                 I know this is a very sensitive and 

25    difficult issue for all of us.  But the one thing 


                                                               5026

 1    you should all remember today is at one time in 

 2    New York State we already had a system in which 

 3    the state assisted individuals in their death.  

 4    In 2004 we eliminated the death penalty.  The 

 5    last person to get the death penalty in New York 

 6    State was in 1963.  

 7                 Let me read you the physician's 

 8    role, the compassion that was in place for 

 9    vicious murderers that received the death penalty 

10    in New York State.  

11                 (Reading.)  The prison physician was 

12    responsible for both officiating at capital 

13    punishment and monitoring condemned inmates prior 

14    to their executions.  This responsibility 

15    encompassed observing the health of prisoners in 

16    the holding cells and treating acute illnesses.  

17    Postmortem, the physician performed an autopsy to 

18    confirm the cause of death and analyze the 

19    efficiency of what took place.  The physician 

20    became the primary employee involved with capital 

21    punishment, bearing both psychological and 

22    physical responsibilities.  

23                 Whether you believed in the death 

24    penalty or didn't believe in it for vicious 

25    murderers in New York State, the state had the 


                                                               5027

 1    compassion to put a physician in the room and 

 2    help that individual, with compassion, not suffer 

 3    during the course of an execution of murderers.  

 4                 You're allowing the execution in 

 5    death of an individual by themselves without 

 6    requiring and mandating the psychological and 

 7    emotional, physical involvement of an important 

 8    licensed physician in New York State.  But this 

 9    is a state and many other states right now still 

10    do that, put a physician in a room with murderers 

11    so they have the compassion to make sure they go 

12    peacefully, in comfort.  

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

14    Tedisco, your time has elapsed.  How do you vote?

15                 SENATOR TEDISCO:   That's not 

16    mandated in this bill, and that is shameful.  

17                 I vote no.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

19    Tedisco to be recorded in the negative.

20                 Senator Fahy to explain her vote.

21                 SENATOR FAHY:   Thank you, 

22    Mr. President.  

23                 I rise to vote aye on this bill, or 

24    aay.  This is probably as well the most difficult 

25    vote I have taken in many years, if not all of my 


                                                               5028

 1    years here and in the Assembly.  It is deeply, 

 2    deeply personal for me, given my personal faith 

 3    and given my personal beliefs.  But I was 

 4    selected to represent all of my constituents in 

 5    the 46th District, not just those who agree with 

 6    my personal perspective.  

 7                 While I am voting in the 

 8    affirmative, I am also troubled on a few fronts.  

 9    One, with the progression in Canada and how it 

10    has moved to non-terminal illnesses who have 

11    access to life-ending drugs, as well as the 

12    concerns of the disabled -- and I am the 

13    Disabilities chair -- as well as those who are 

14    vulnerable populations.  

15                 In the end, I am supporting this, 

16    however, because there are patients who still 

17    suffer while dying.  And I reached out to one of 

18    my son's doctors because I -- to ask about 

19    palliative care, and my understanding is that we 

20    have made a lot of strides on palliative care.  

21                 But this doctor responded by saying 

22    as much as they attempt to relieve suffering, 

23    they cannot fix all pain in death, or as an 

24    individual is facing death.  They cannot do much 

25    more for the shortness of breath, which is -- and 


                                                               5029

 1    I'm quoting some of the comments from this 

 2    doctor.  They cannot do much to address the 

 3    shortage of breath, which can be unbearable, and 

 4    particularly in some lung cases, as well as blood 

 5    cancers, that can give profound anemias.  

 6                 So again, while trying to relieve 

 7    pain they can face, in those types of cancers, 

 8    catastrophic erosion of tumors and major blood 

 9    vessels, which can result in acute hemorrhaging 

10    and bleeding out, which can be devastatingly 

11    traumatic to everyone.

12                 Again, while this bill --

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

14    Fahy, if you can conclude a little bit -- 

15                 SENATOR FAHY:   -- does have 

16    guardrails, I remain troubled on those three 

17    fronts.  

18                 But in the end, I cannot in good 

19    conscience vote, for those who may face terminal 

20    illnesses, to have them suffer in death.  And 

21    with that, I will vote in the affirmative.

22                 Thank you.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

24    Fahy to be recorded in the affirmative.

25                 Senator Martins to explain his vote.


                                                               5030

 1                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Thank you, 

 2    Mr. President.

 3                 As has been said multiple times this 

 4    evening, Mr. President, this is about personal 

 5    choice and dignity.  And I believe that.  I've 

 6    had the opportunity to meet with advocates and 

 7    opponents.  I've had the opportunity to meet with 

 8    physicians who have both supported and opposed 

 9    this bill.  

10                 The one thing I came away with is 

11    this bill isn't ready.  The idea of 

12    doctor-shopping -- and we've seen examples of 

13    doctor-shopping where a person will go from 

14    doctor to doctor to doctor until they find one 

15    who will finally sign off and allow them the 

16    opportunity that they're asking for.  The idea 

17    that we don't have mental-health evaluations 

18    built into this as a mandatory component, because 

19    someone who looks to end their life by necessity 

20    needs to have that evaluation.

21                 I'm sympathetic, and I think 

22    everyone here in the chamber understands that I 

23    am sympathetic, given my own personal experiences 

24    with this issue.  I'm very sympathetic with the 

25    idea of personal choice and dignity.  


                                                               5031

 1                 But I can't get there on this bill, 

 2    Mr. President, and I'll be voting no.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 4    Martins to be recorded in the negative.

 5                 Senator Walczyk to explain his vote.

 6                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Thank you, 

 7    Mr. President.

 8                 I heard in this debate the slippery 

 9    slope argument sort of pushed aside.  New Yorkers 

10    remember when compassion for glaucoma patients 

11    allowed medical marijuana in New York, and then 

12    we watched it go on and become fully legalized.  

13                 In 2016, Canada passed medical 

14    assistance in dying.  It included two physicians.  

15    It included a foreseeable death criteria and 

16    protections for vulnerable citizens in Canada.  

17                 Canada now has an assisted suicide 

18    which accounts for one in 20 deaths in their 

19    country.  This is where we're headed.  

20                 David Baltzer served two tours in 

21    Afghanistan with the Canadian armed forces.  

22    Veterans Affairs Canada told him:  I would like 

23    to make a suggestion for you.  Keep an open mind.  

24    Think about it.  You've tried all this, and 

25    nothing seems to be working.  But have you 


                                                               5032

 1    thought about medical assisted suicide?

 2                 The veteran said, "It was my lowest 

 3    down point, just before Christmas.  It made me 

 4    wonder were they really there to help us or 

 5    slowly groom us to say, 'Here's a solution, just 

 6    kill yourself.'"

 7                 I vote no, Mr. President.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 9    Walczyk to be recorded in the negative.

10                 Senator Gonzalez to explain her 

11    vote.

12                 SENATOR GONZALEZ:   Thank you, 

13    Mr. President.

14                 I rise today to proudly vote aye on 

15    this bill.  And I want to thank the many 

16    advocates who are here today and those who I saw 

17    for years work in both chambers to ensure this 

18    bill's passage.  

19                 I certainly want to thank 

20    Senator Hoylman-Sigal for sponsoring this 

21    legislation and all the work he's put into this.  

22    And of course I want to thank Senator Jessica 

23    Scarcella-Spanton, my seatmate, but also someone 

24    who I know has truly and deeply championed this 

25    issue since the day that we started in the 


                                                               5033

 1    chamber together.

 2                 We talk a lot about freedom and 

 3    dignity in this body.  We talk about the ability 

 4    to live our lives on our terms.  And that ability 

 5    should extend to ending our lives on our terms.  

 6    We talk a lot about making sure New Yorkers can 

 7    live their lives with dignity, and we need to 

 8    also ensure that New Yorkers, if put in the 

 9    situation, are able to also pass with dignity.

10                 So I support this bill and vote 

11    proudly aye because I believe this is a bill 

12    about bodily autonomy.  It's a bill about ending 

13    suffering.  And certainly it's a bill about 

14    giving every New Yorker the freedom to make the 

15    hardest decisions with their medical 

16    professionals.  

17                 So again, I want to thank everyone 

18    for passing this.  Thank you.  

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

20    Gonzalez to be recorded in the affirmative.

21                 Senator Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick to 

22    explain her vote.

23                 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:   

24    Thank you, Mr. President.  

25                 This certainly is a very serious 


                                                               5034

 1    topic.  We've talked about the slippery slope.  

 2    We've talked about the vulnerable populations.  

 3    We've talked about trusting doctors to do the 

 4    right thing.  But it's our job to legislate, and 

 5    today I think we've failed.  

 6                 Senator May, I'm so sorry to hear 

 7    what you've gone through.  I too was a young 

 8    widow with four children who suffered terribly 

 9    over the loss of their father.  That's why every 

10    day in this chamber I advocate for them.  That's 

11    why I'm a Senator, to make sure they have a 

12    better life.

13                 But we talk about mental health in 

14    this chamber all the time and what we can do to 

15    protect people from suicide and to make sure that 

16    they have mental-health support.  The lack of 

17    control over a lethal cocktail going into a home 

18    where there's potentially a parent dying and 

19    young children in that home that could end their 

20    suffering and think that "I don't want to live 

21    without mom or dad," and have access to lethal 

22    drugs in their home if they are mentally 

23    unstable, is a risk I am not willing to take.  

24    One person, one child dying from that is way too 

25    many.  


                                                               5035

 1                 I vote no.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 3    Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick to be recorded in the 

 4    negative.

 5                 Senator Comrie to explain his vote.

 6                 SENATOR COMRIE:   Thank you, 

 7    Mr. President.  

 8                 I rise today to support the 

 9    Medical Aid in Dying bill.  I won't tell personal 

10    stories, but I just want to thank all of the 

11    advocates on both sides for their outreach and 

12    their concern and their compassion.  

13                 I want to thank Diane Savino and 

14    everyone that has been working many years.  

15    Jackie Williams, who's in Atlanta now, has 

16    been -- was the first person to come to me when I 

17    first got here to talk to me about medical aid in 

18    dying when I came here 10 years ago.

19                 I appreciate the concerns and the 

20    fears, but I don't appreciate the fearmongering.  

21    This is only going to happen to a small segment 

22    of people that want to take this action.  This is 

23    a country that should allow people to do the 

24    things that they want to do.  We should be a body 

25    that gives people an opportunity to do 


                                                               5036

 1    things that they want to do.

 2                 This is not something that's going 

 3    to turn into Dr. Kevorkian or children slipping 

 4    and taking drugs from people, because this will 

 5    be done in a way that -- for people that really 

 6    want to do this, that are really in pain and 

 7    suffering.  That they know they have -- their 

 8    lifetime is over, and they want to die with 

 9    dignity.  They want to go out on their own terms.  

10    They want to not have people look at them in 

11    their final days, you know, pitying them or 

12    coming to visit them that never visited them 

13    while they were sick and all of a sudden they 

14    want to see them while they're dying.

15                 This is for people that want to take 

16    a choice -- a hard choice, and it will be an 

17    informed choice.  It will be a choice that will 

18    be deliberated over.  But for somebody to want to 

19    do this, it's only going to be a small segment of 

20    our society.  We will all monitor to make sure 

21    that there are no Dr. Kevorkians and no hospitals 

22    that specialize in this, because we're 

23    responsible legislators.  And if we hear of any 

24    sign of that, we will tamp it down.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 


                                                               5037

 1    Comrie, how do you vote?  

 2                 SENATOR COMRIE:   Is it two minutes 

 3    already?

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Indeed.

 5                 SENATOR COMRIE:   I vote aye.  

 6                 Thank you, Mr. President.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 8    Comrie to be recorded in the affirmative.

 9                 Senator Hoylman-Sigal to close.

10                 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:   Thank you, 

11    Mr. President.  

12                 I want to share this stone that I 

13    had in my desk for the last year.  It was from a 

14    young woman named Jules who has metastatic breast 

15    cancer and gave it to me a year ago as we were 

16    working on this bill.  It was her worry stone.  

17    And she said I could return it to her if in fact 

18    she survived.  And I'm happy to say she's still 

19    alive.  

20                 And that's really what medical aid 

21    in dying is about for so many patients.  It's 

22    about living.  It's about planning your life in a 

23    way that you can end it peacefully.  And to the 

24    advocates who are here, we owe you such a debt of 

25    gratitude, because you have propelled us to a 


                                                               5038

 1    great social reform for other New Yorkers.  

 2                 And what's so important that I think 

 3    my colleagues share, we understand the moral 

 4    concerns on the other side of the aisle.  But we 

 5    choose to act independently for our own -- within 

 6    our own moral code.  And whether it's been 

 7    abortion, gay marriage, adultery, gestational 

 8    surrogacy -- complicated moral issues that we've 

 9    addressed in this chamber, we have viewed through 

10    the lens of personal autonomy and liberty.  

11                 And Mr. President, I think that's 

12    what we're doing today.  And I'm so proud to vote 

13    aye.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

15    Hoylman-Sigal to be recorded in the affirmative.

16                 Announce the results.

17                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

18    Calendar 1674, those Senators voting in the 

19    negative are Senators Ashby, Baskin, Borrello, 

20    Bynoe, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Chan, Cleare, 

21    Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Lanza, Martinez, 

22    Martins, Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, 

23    Palumbo, Persaud, Rhoads, Rolison, Stec, Sutton, 

24    Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.

25                 Ayes, 35.  Nays, 27.


                                                               5039

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 2    is passed.

 3                 (Applause from galleries.)

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 5    Gianaris.

 6                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

 7    if we could return to motions and resolutions for 

 8    a moment, we have several here.  

 9                 Amendments are offered to the 

10    following Third Reading Calendar bills.  

11                 On behalf of Senator Gounardes, 

12    page 56, Calendar 1419, Senate Print 3397. 

13                 On behalf of Senator Gonzalez, page 

14    61, Calendar 1510, Senate Print 7599B. 

15                 Senator Bailey, page 13, 

16    Calendar 580, Senate Print 5331. 

17                 Senator Liu, Calendar Number 1679, 

18    Senate Print 1511. 

19                 Senator Hinchey, Calendar Number 

20    1653, Senate Print 8021A. 

21                 Senator Bailey, Calendar Number 

22    1644, Senate Print 7222. 

23                 Senator Bynoe, page 24, 

24    Calendar Number 920, Senate Print 4072. 

25                 Senator Gonzalez, page 61, 


                                                               5040

 1    Calendar Number 1516, Senate Print 7923. 

 2                 Senator Skoufis, page 58, 

 3    Calendar Number 1434, Senate Print 2520A; 

 4                 Senator May, page 9, 

 5    Calendar Number 403, Senate Print 1227.  

 6                 Senator Hoylman-Sigal, page 53, 

 7    Calendar Number 1390, Senate Print 7297. 

 8                 Senator Bynoe, page 65, 

 9    Calendar Number 1549, Senate Print 7611.

10                 Senator Fahy, page 34, 

11    Calendar Number 1129, Senate Print 4500. 

12                 Senator Webb, page 15, 

13    Calendar Number 621, Senate Print 2057. 

14                 Senator C. Ryan, page 24, 

15    Calendar Number 917, Senate Print 4774. 

16                 And Senator Webb, Calendar 1695, 

17    Senate Print 6231.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Those 

19    amendments are received, and those bills will 

20    retain their place on the Third Reading Calendar.

21                 Senator Gianaris.  

22                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   I also wish to 

23    call up the following bills, where were recalled 

24    from the Assembly and are now at the desk:  

25                 Senate Print Numbers 1349B, 2236, 


                                                               5041

 1    620, 7944, 54, and 934.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 3    Secretary will read.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 5    225, Senate Print 620, by Senator Stavisky, an 

 6    act to amend the Education Law.

 7                 Calendar Number 1300, Senate 

 8    Print 7944, by Senator Ramos, an act to amend the 

 9    Labor Law.

10                 Calendar Number 499, Senate 

11    Print 54, by Senator Fernandez, an act to amend 

12    the Penal Law.  

13                 Calendar Number 297, Senate 

14    Print 934, by Senator Gonzalez, an act to amend 

15    the General Business Law.

16                 Calendar Number 445, Senate Print 

17    2236, by Senator Gounardes, an act to amend the 

18    Labor Law.

19                 Calendar Number 936, Senate Print 

20    1349B, by Senator Cleare, an act to amend the 

21    Education Law.

22                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to 

23    reconsider the vote by which these bills were 

24    passed.  

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 


                                                               5042

 1    roll on reconsideration.

 2                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 62.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bills 

 5    are restored to their place on the Third Reading 

 6    Calendar.

 7                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   I offer the 

 8    following amendments.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

10    amendments are received.

11                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

12    at this time let me reset the --

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Excuse 

14    me.  If we could have some order in the chamber, 

15    please.  Thank you.

16                 Senator Gianaris.

17                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you, 

18    Mr. President.  

19                 If I could reset the evening for my 

20    colleagues, it is almost 9 p.m.  We have seven 

21    more bills to be debated.  So obviously we want 

22    everyone to have the opportunity to ask their 

23    questions and be heard, but we have a long night 

24    ahead of us.  

25                 So let us move on next to 


                                                               5043

 1    Calendar 182, by Senator Harckham.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 3    Secretary will ring the bell.

 4                 The Secretary will read.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 6    182, Senate Print 1985A, by Senator Harckham, an 

 7    act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 9    Walczyk, why do you rise?

10                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Mr. President, 

11    will the sponsor yield for some questions.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

13    sponsor yield? 

14                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Glad to.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

16    sponsor yields.  

17                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

18    Mr. President.  

19                 So Section 530.11 of the 

20    Criminal Procedures Act defines family offenses.  

21    That includes disorderly conduct, including 

22    disorderly conduct not in a public place.  Is 

23    that correct?  

24                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Thank you, 

25    Mr. President.  If you'll give us a second, we're 


                                                               5044

 1    checking on that.  

 2                 This bill does not speak 

 3    specifically to that code, so we're prepared to 

 4    speak on this bill, but we will find out that 

 5    answer for you if you desire that.

 6                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

 7    Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to 

 8    yield.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

10    sponsor yield?

11                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

13    sponsor yields.  

14                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Yes, so this bill 

15    addresses specifically family offenses in that 

16    Section 530.11 of the Criminal Procedures Act.  

17    I'm just looking for some clarification.  

18    Disorderly conduct, not including in a public 

19    place, is included in that section.

20                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

21    Mr. President.  To our knowledge, that is not a 

22    crime, it's a violation.  

23                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

24    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

25    yield.


                                                               5045

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 2    sponsor yield? 

 3                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 5    sponsor yields.

 6                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   But that 

 7    violation is under the list of things in family 

 8    offenses, is that correct?

 9                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   We're checking.  

10                 But through you, Mr. President, this 

11    bill has to do with the threats of domestic 

12    violence and firearms.  (Pause.)  

13                 Family offenses is on the list.  You 

14    are correct, sir.

15                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

16    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

17    yield.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

19    sponsor yield?

20                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

22    sponsor yields.

23                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And under 

24    Section 240.20 of the Penal Law, it outlines when 

25    the intent is to cause an annoyance or an alarm.  


                                                               5046

 1    One of the provisions is when someone makes an 

 2    unreasonable noise, i.e., a noise complaint.  Is 

 3    that covered under this statute as well?

 4                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   (Conferring.)

 5                 Through you, Mr. President, that is 

 6    a violation.  It's a family offense.  It would 

 7    need to be against another family member.  

 8    Something like a noise complaint would not rise 

 9    to the level of this bill that we're talking 

10    about today.

11                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

12    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

13    yield?  

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

15    sponsor yield?

16                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

18    sponsor yields.  

19                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Section 240.20, 

20    disorderly conduct, under the Penal Law, a person 

21    is guilty of disorderly conduct when, with the 

22    intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance 

23    or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, 

24    engages in fighting or violent, tumultuous, or 

25    threatening behavior or, two, makes an 


                                                               5047

 1    unreasonable noise.  

 2                 So my understanding is that a noise 

 3    complaint, if filed by a family member or 

 4    intimate partner under this legislation, would 

 5    qualify for the firearms confiscation.  Am I 

 6    understanding that correctly, Mr. President?

 7                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 8    Mr. President.  While theoretically correct, the 

 9    point of a DV call really is violence.  And 

10    that's what we're talking about here, and the 

11    threat of violence, not just annoyance.

12                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

13    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

14    yield?  

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

16    sponsor yield?

17                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

19    sponsor yields.

20                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Yeah, it's not 

21    necessarily a theory if it's already written in 

22    statute and your bill directly addresses that 

23    statute.  It would be how your bill plays out in 

24    practice, which is why I wanted to bring that up.  

25                 Is your intent something other than 


                                                               5048

 1    allowing a family member to file a noise 

 2    complaint against a relative and have their 

 3    weapons confiscated for that noise complaint?

 4                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 5    Mr. President.  The bill allows officers' 

 6    discretion that when they arrive on the scene, 

 7    and they go through that the normal DIR and they 

 8    don't feel that there is a threat assessment -- 

 9    or there is a threat, they don't have to 

10    confiscate the weapons.

11                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And through you, 

12    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

13    yield?  

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

15    sponsor yield?

16                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

18    sponsor yields.

19                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   So would this 

20    bill -- when we're talking about intimate 

21    relationships or family relationships, would this 

22    include roommates in that?  If you have a 

23    longstanding roommate, would that be considered 

24    an intimate relationship?

25                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   (Conferring.)  


                                                               5049

 1    Thank you, Mr. President.

 2                 There has to be more than just a 

 3    roommate relationship.  There has to be some sort 

 4    of an intimate family bond.  

 5                 And if I may take a moment to back 

 6    up as to the importance of this change to the 

 7    bill, is that domestic violence and firearms are 

 8    not a good mix.  In a six-week period in 

 9    Westchester County we had three incidents, two in 

10    my district, one in Senator Mayer's district, 

11    that resulted in six fatalities, several other 

12    people, including children, gravely wounded.  

13                 And in fact reports show that 20 

14    percent of women who are killed with a 

15    restraining order are killed within the first two 

16    days.  And that's why the five days that we are 

17    calling for in this law are so important, to give 

18    time for safety plans to be put in place.  

19                 So I would suggest that while we can 

20    talk about, you know, noise complaints and things 

21    like that, this is about something much more 

22    serious and buying time to save victims and 

23    buying time for safety plans to be put in place.

24                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

25    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 


                                                               5050

 1    yield.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 3    sponsor yield?

 4                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 6    sponsor yields.

 7                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   I'm very sorry to 

 8    hear about those situations.  You said the 

 9    homicides were within the first two days?

10                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   That -- the 

11    study that we saw showed that 20 percent of women 

12    who are killed in a domestic violence incident, 

13    20 percent of those women are killed within the 

14    first two days of the filing of that order of 

15    protection.  

16                 And so that's why -- one of the 

17    reasons why we feel these five days that are in 

18    this statute are so important.

19                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

20    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

21    yield.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

23    sponsor yield? 

24                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 


                                                               5051

 1    sponsor yields.  

 2                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   But if they're 

 3    killed within the first two days, the first two 

 4    days is already in statute.  Can't they 

 5    confiscate weapons for up to 48 hours in current 

 6    law?  

 7                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   They may.  They 

 8    are not required to.  

 9                 So this bill sort of bifurcates.  It 

10    gives officers discretions in certain areas and 

11    requires them -- it says "shall" -- in other 

12    areas.  

13                 So for instance, if they have to 

14    make an -- they may, if their determination when 

15    they arrive on scene and they see firearms out -- 

16    they can't go looking for them, but if they see 

17    them, depending on the situation, current law 

18    says they may.  

19                 What this says is if the suspect is 

20    arrested, then the officer shall.  And then in 

21    the DIR, there's a third section in the victim 

22    interview.  If their affirmative responses to 

23    things like did suspect make victim fearful, 

24    weapon used, access to guns, suspect threats.  

25    And then there is a whole section on 


                                                               5052

 1    strangulation, because there's a very strong 

 2    correlation between strangulation and later 

 3    murder.

 4                 So if there are positive responses 

 5    in the victim interview section, that would also 

 6    trigger the "shall" clause for five days.

 7                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

 8    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

 9    yield.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

11    sponsor yield?

12                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

14    sponsor yields.  

15                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   I don't have it 

16    in front of me, but that DIR I think also has a 

17    provision saying if they've made them fearful in 

18    the past.  Is that one of the requirements in 

19    front of you?

20                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yeah, there is a 

21    section on that.  You are correct, sir.

22                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And through you, 

23    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

24    yield.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 


                                                               5053

 1    sponsor yield?

 2                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 4    sponsor yields.  

 5                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   I had asked a few 

 6    questions ago about roommates.  Would the 

 7    intimate relationship also include ex-boyfriends, 

 8    ex-girlfriends?  Would that qualify as an 

 9    intimate relationship under family offense 

10    matters?  

11                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   I believe so, 

12    Mr. President, through you.  In fact, there are 

13    questions about that on the DIR as well.

14                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

15    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

16    yield?  

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

18    sponsor yield?

19                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

21    sponsor yields.  

22                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Are ex-spouses 

23    also included?  

24                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

25    Mr. President, yes.


                                                               5054

 1                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And through you, 

 2    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

 3    yield?

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 5    sponsor yield?

 6                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 8    sponsor yields.

 9                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   That would be 

10    even if they no longer live in the same 

11    residence?  

12                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

13    Mr. President, correct.

14                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And through you, 

15    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

16    yield? 

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

18    sponsor yield?

19                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

21    sponsor yields.  

22                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Section 2 of your 

23    bill says "shall take custody of firearms."  

24    Possession in the Penal Law talks about control 

25    and access to firearms.  What firearms are we 


                                                               5055

 1    talking about?  Are we talking about the alleged 

 2    personal firearms or all firearms that they would 

 3    have access to?  All firearms in the home, for 

 4    example?

 5                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 6    Mr. President.  It would not be all firearms in 

 7    the home.  They would need a warrant to do that.  

 8                 This would be the ones on the 

 9    suspect's person or are laying about the house 

10    that are visible.

11                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

12    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

13    yield.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

15    sponsor yield?

16                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

18    sponsor yields.

19                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   So that was one 

20    of the significant changes that I saw in your 

21    legislation here, is that currently in statute an 

22    officer may take temporary custody of a host of 

23    firearms that are in plain sight or discovered 

24    when they go into the home.  

25                 Yours is saying they shall take 


                                                               5056

 1    custody of any that are in possession, which 

 2    could mean that they have access or control.  So 

 3    any other firearms in the house, even if they're 

 4    owned by someone else?  Or would they have to be 

 5    owned by the person who's accused?  

 6                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

 7    Mr. President.  It's not another person.  It's 

 8    not the spouse, it's not the adult children.  

 9    It's just that individual.  And it would 

10    temporarily -- for that five-day period, unless a 

11    judge rules in a shorter amount of time, it would 

12    also be their license as well.

13                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

14    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

15    yield.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

17    sponsor yield?

18                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

20    sponsor yields.

21                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   So currently 

22    police officers in law are required to take 

23    firearms that are used, and they have discretion 

24    on any that are in plain sight that may be owned 

25    by someone else or owned by them.  


                                                               5057

 1                 What does Section 2 specifically 

 2    change, then?  

 3                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   (Conferring.)  

 4                 Thank you, Mr. President.  Through 

 5    you, Mr. President.  

 6                 As I said before, it changes from 

 7    "may" to "shall."  Right now officers may, and 

 8    this directs them to shall.

 9                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Thank you, 

10    Mr. President.  On the bill.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

12    Walczyk on the bill.

13                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   A noise complaint 

14    from a jilted lover could result in gun 

15    confiscation and may even require it -- according 

16    to the sponsor, requires it, depriving 

17    New Yorkers of their Second Amendment rights.  

18    Those are the rights that you all swore to 

19    uphold.  

20                 Police can already arrest, separate 

21    and protect victims of domestic violence, which 

22    is very good and important.  But an order of 

23    protection, as the sponsor pointed out, is only 

24    as good as the piece of paper that it's written 

25    on, and this bill has the potential to remove 


                                                               5058

 1    firearms from the home under that definition of 

 2    possession, even if they're owned by the victim 

 3    or the complainant.  

 4                 It's bad policy.  It's reckless.  

 5    And I believe it's unconstitutional.  I'll be 

 6    voting no and encourage my colleagues to do the 

 7    same.  

 8                 Thank you.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

10    you, Senator.  

11                 Are there any other Senators wishing 

12    to be heard?

13                 Hearing and seeing none, debate is 

14    closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.

15                 Read the last section.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

17    act shall take effect immediately.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

19    roll.

20                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

22    the results.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

24    Calendar 182, voting in the negative are 

25    Senators Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Chan, 


                                                               5059

 1    Ashby, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Lanza, Mattera, 

 2    Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, Stec, 

 3    Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.

 4                 Ayes, 43.  Nays, 19.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

 6    is passed.

 7                 Senator Gianaris.

 8                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you, 

 9    Mr. President.

10                 Let's move on next to Calendar 511, 

11    by Senator Myrie.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

13    Secretary will ring the bell.

14                 The Secretary will read.  

15                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

16    511, Senate Print 397, by Senator Myrie, an act 

17    to amend the General Business Law.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

19    Borrello, why do you rise?  

20                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

21    will the sponsor yield for a question.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

23    sponsor yield?

24                 SENATOR MYRIE:   Yes.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 


                                                               5060

 1    sponsor yields.

 2                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Through you, 

 3    Mr. President.  In the words of my favorite 

 4    leprechaun, why are you trying to steal me 

 5    Lucky Charms?  

 6                 (Laughter.)

 7                 SENATOR MYRIE:   Through you, 

 8    Mr. President, I'm not quite sure how to answer 

 9    that.  But I will give back the time for the 

10    subsequent question.

11                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

12    will the sponsor continue to yield.  

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

14    sponsor yield?

15                 SENATOR MYRIE:   Yes.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

17    sponsor yields.

18                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Well, I guess my 

19    question is, you know, Lucky Charms is a pretty 

20    high-sugar, very popular cereal.  Some people 

21    would call this junk food.  But is there actually 

22    a definition for what is considered junk food in 

23    this bill?

24                 SENATOR MYRIE:   Through you, 

25    Mr. President.  What this bill does is clarify 


                                                               5061

 1    what can be characterized as false or misleading 

 2    advertising, particularly when directed at 

 3    children.  

 4                 We know that one-third of New York 

 5    children are obese or overweight.  That number 

 6    has grown over the past five years post-COVID.  

 7    And we know that a significant source of that 

 8    obesity and overweight is attributed to the 

 9    consumption of processed foods.

10                 What this bill does is align with 

11    the Federal Trade Commission's definitions of 

12    false and misleading advertising and gives courts 

13    and the Attorney General clarity on how to 

14    enforce that.  

15                 Notably, because Senator Borrello 

16    and I have made this an annual tradition in 

17    debating this, we have taken into consideration 

18    the characterization of natural foods, foods that 

19    are produced and that this state takes great 

20    pride in, but does outline, when these foods are 

21    targeted to children, that the court should take 

22    special attention and special consideration.

23                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

24    would the sponsor continue to yield.  

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   I 


                                                               5062

 1    materialized.  

 2                 (Laughter.)

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 4    sponsor yield?

 5                 SENATOR MYRIE:   Yes.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 7    sponsor yields.

 8                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So you're 

 9    suggesting that in this bill that, you know, a 

10    targeted person, which is a child, is basically 

11    acting on behalf of themself, they would see an 

12    advertisement and then essentially be able to go 

13    out and have the resources to act on that 

14    advertisement and buy that food.  

15                 Is that -- I mean, you're basically 

16    saying that the child that would be impacted is 

17    essentially going to respond to that advertising 

18    and go buy that unhealthy food as a result, is 

19    that correct?

20                 SENATOR MYRIE:   Through you, 

21    Mr. President, not exactly.

22                 So the research has told us that 

23    children are particularly susceptible to 

24    advertising.  And the distinguishing factor here 

25    is the inability to determine what is fact or 


                                                               5063

 1    what is fiction.  That is something that comes 

 2    along with maturation.  And what we have seen is 

 3    that the advertising that is targeted to children 

 4    blurs that line.  

 5                 And it's not unusual in our laws to 

 6    protect particularly vulnerable populations that 

 7    may not be able to make that distinction.  And so 

 8    what we have done in this bill is simply to say 

 9    if you are targeting children, that you are going 

10    to be under special consideration given this 

11    extra susceptibility that children have.

12                 This is not to say that children 

13    have no agency or that they can go out and buy 

14    Lucky Charms at will.  But we do know that they 

15    are a great source of wealth for food 

16    corporations.  And the reason we know that is 

17    because they spend $14 billion a year targeting 

18    children.  So if you are going to spend that 

19    amount of money, we should ensure that our 

20    children are being protected in that context.  

21    And that is the protection we're seeking in this 

22    bill.

23                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

24    will the sponsor continue to yield?

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 


                                                               5064

 1    sponsor yield? 

 2                 SENATOR MYRIE:   Yes.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 4    sponsor yields.

 5                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   You know, unlike 

 6    when I was a child, I mean, you know, 

 7    advertisements now are everywhere.  They're on 

 8    your phones, they're on your searches online.  

 9    There's -- you know, we're New York State, but 

10    most of these ads originate from outside of 

11    New York State, I would imagine.  How are we 

12    going to control that?  

13                 And who are we going to hold 

14    responsible if someone is, you know, producing an 

15    ad for something we've deemed to be false 

16    advertising and they are without -- they are 

17    beyond our jurisdiction here in New York State?  

18                 SENATOR MYRIE:   Through you, 

19    Mr. President.  This bill does not change what is 

20    currently the law in our General Business Law, 

21    that false advertising, false and misleading 

22    advertising is illegal and you can be held 

23    accountable in court for that.  

24                 What this does is give clarification 

25    on what false and misleading can be in the 


                                                               5065

 1    context of children.  So for purposes of 

 2    jurisdiction, it changes nothing about the 

 3    jurisdiction that we currently have.  It reaches 

 4    the same entities that would be reached otherwise 

 5    by our General Business Law.  It simply gives 

 6    more clarification and matches it to what the 

 7    Federal Trade Commission examines.

 8                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

 9    will the sponsor continue to yield.  

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

11    sponsor yield?

12                 SENATOR MYRIE:   Yes.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

14    sponsor yields.  

15                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Well, if the 

16    Federal Trade Commission has been, you know, 

17    essentially acting in this manner already, I 

18    guess, number one, why do we need to do this?  

19                 But my real question is you're 

20    defining something as false and misleading 

21    advertising.  I'll go back to my Lucky Charms 

22    example.  He also said that they're magically 

23    delicious.  Now, magically delicious, isn't that 

24    false advertising?  They're not really magically 

25    delicious, right?  


                                                               5066

 1                 (Laughter.)

 2                 SENATOR MYRIE:   Through you, 

 3    Mr. President, that is precisely the point that 

 4    we are making, that you may be able to make that 

 5    determination -- I would hope -- that they are 

 6    not magically delicious, but for some children 

 7    that may not be as easy a distinction to make.  

 8                 And as you also referenced, these 

 9    advertisements aren't similar to what you and I 

10    went through when we were younger, just seeing it 

11    on television.  Our children are being bombarded 

12    on their phones, on social media, and in some 

13    cases by influencers who don't disclose that this 

14    is an advertisement and are instead trying to 

15    portray that this is just something cool for them 

16    to do.

17                 And so we are, at bottom, trying to 

18    protect our children to ensure that they are 

19    making the best choices possible, the most 

20    informed choices possible, and that corporations 

21    aren't making billions of dollars off of our 

22    children becoming more and more unhealthy.  

23                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

24    will the sponsor continue to yield.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 


                                                               5067

 1    sponsor yield?

 2                 SENATOR MYRIE:   Yes.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 4    sponsor yields.

 5                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Okay.  So 

 6    magically delicious, that's no good, we can't do 

 7    that.  What about "Red Bull gives you wings"?  I 

 8    mean, I drank it; I've never sprouted wings.  

 9    What about that, would that be considered false 

10    advertising?  

11                 SENATOR MYRIE:   Through you, 

12    Mr. President.  And I'm happy -- I know the hour 

13    is late, but I'm happy to go through all of the 

14    hypotheticals with you.  

15                 But the point remains that the 

16    determination that you can make is inherently 

17    different than the determination that a child can 

18    make.  And you can run the hypotheticals through 

19    the factors outlined in this bill.  We look at 

20    the subject matter, the visual content, the age 

21    of who's involved, the music or audio content.  

22                 These are factors for the court to 

23    examine.  There's no one dispositive factor.  All 

24    of them are taken into consideration and may 

25    include others.  But that is the point.  There 


                                                               5068

 1    needs to be some built-in flexibility because as 

 2    you are alluding to, there are many examples that 

 3    might require a different analysis.

 4                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

 5    on the bill.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 7    Borrello on the bill.

 8                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   First of all, 

 9    Senator Myrie, thank you once again.  This is 

10    like number five that we've done this together?  

11                 So, look, I make light of this 

12    because I want people to realize that we might 

13    have the best of intentions here in this chamber, 

14    but to impact and influence how children are, I 

15    guess, you know, drawn to certain things.  But 

16    the reality is this is a personal choice that's 

17    made between I think the parents and their 

18    children.  

19                 For us to say that we are going to 

20    somehow eliminate advertising influences on 

21    children I think is, A, unrealistic, and B, is 

22    the unintended consequence of are we going to 

23    create the opportunity, in our very litigious 

24    society, for people to, you know, create lawsuits 

25    because Red Bull does indeed not give you wings.  


                                                               5069

 1    And maybe I understand that as an adult, but a 

 2    child does not.  So now somebody's got to pay.  

 3    Lucky Charms are not magically delicious.  I know 

 4    that, but a child doesn't.  Now somebody's got to 

 5    pay.  

 6                 (Inaudible.)

 7                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Yes, and this 

 8    bill is not "GRRRREAT," either, so -- 

 9                 (Laughter.)

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   That joke 

11    is out of order.  

12                 (Laughter.)

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

14    Borrello, continue.  

15                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   We tried, 

16    Mr. President.  Sorry, it's late.  

17                 So I think my point here is this.  

18    Do I think that children should be eating 

19    healthier foods?  Absolutely.  We should start, 

20    frankly, by changing our rules on what SNAP can 

21    be used on.  Okay?  

22                 We provide millions and millions of 

23    dollars a year to families to feed their 

24    children, and we allow them to buy processed 

25    foods, high-sugar drinks, prepared foods -- the 


                                                               5070

 1    list goes on and on.  You can use SNAP benefits 

 2    at fast food joints.  Shouldn't we stop that 

 3    first?  Wouldn't that be the best way to do it, 

 4    considering we know how many millions of children 

 5    are receiving SNAP benefits through their family?  

 6                 We could fix that right away.  Make 

 7    sure that it's only healthy, nonprocessed, 

 8    nonprepared foods that could be purchased with 

 9    taxpayer-funded benefits.  That's an idea that I 

10    could get behind.  

11                 But this, this isn't going to do it.  

12    So once again I'll be voting no, but I enjoy the 

13    engagement.  

14                 Thank you, Mr. President.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

16    you, Senator Borrello.

17                 Are there any other Senators wishing 

18    to be heard?

19                 Seeing or hearing none, debate is 

20    closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.

21                 Read the last section.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 6.  This 

23    act shall take effect on the 30th day after it 

24    shall have become a law.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 


                                                               5071

 1    roll.

 2                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 4    Myrie to explain his vote.

 5                 SENATOR MYRIE:   Yes.  And thank 

 6    you, Senator Borrello, for our annual exchange on 

 7    this bill.  

 8                 I just wanted to make a quick 

 9    clarifying point on commercial speech and the 

10    constitution and what is protected and what is 

11    not protected.  

12                 Just for the record, when the 

13    advertisement or the speech in the advertisement 

14    is what we legally call puffery or exaggeration, 

15    that is not false and misleading in and of 

16    itself.  What this bill does is combine a couple 

17    of factors to say when it is targeted and may or 

18    may not have that language, you have to consider 

19    the factors in who the audience is and what the 

20    implications of what that audience may be.  So I 

21    just wanted to get that on the record, and to be 

22    clear.  

23                 I of course will be voting in the 

24    affirmative.  Thank you.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 


                                                               5072

 1    Myrie to be recorded in the affirmative.  

 2                 Senator Krueger to explain her vote.

 3                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you, 

 4    Mr. President.

 5                 I have to say I love this bill 

 6    because we know there's a direct correlation 

 7    between what children get inundated with and then 

 8    what they go and demand their parents buy for 

 9    them, even if their parents can't afford it.  

10    Anyone who's had small children knows how 

11    persistent they can be until they get what they 

12    want.

13                 So this bill is an opportunity to 

14    try to help discourage young children from being 

15    exposed to this onslaught of advertising.  

16    Because, yeah, Lucky Charms are not magically 

17    delicious, and pretty much none of the other 

18    breakfast cereals are either.

19                 Now, as far as saying you should 

20    limit what low-income people can buy with 

21    government benefits, here's the facts.  Because 

22    low-income people get so little money, they 

23    actually eat much more healthily than 

24    middle-income and upper-income kids, because they 

25    can really afford all that junk food.  


                                                               5073

 1                 So again, the assignment needs to be 

 2    helping educate kids not to want this stuff in 

 3    the first place.  

 4                 I vote yes.  Thank you.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 6    Krueger to be recorded in the affirmative.

 7                 Announce the results.

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 9    Calendar 511, voting in the negative are 

10    Senators Borrello, Chan, Gallivan, Griffo, 

11    Helming, Lanza, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Rhoads, 

12    Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk and Weik.

13                 Ayes, 48.  Nays, 14.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

15    is passed.

16                 Senator Gianaris.

17                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

18    next up is Calendar 634, and thereafter let's 

19    just go in number order.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

21    Secretary will ring the bell.

22                 The Secretary will read.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

24    634, Senate Print 2433A, by Senator Krueger, an 

25    act to amend the Real Property Law.


                                                               5074

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 2    Martins, why do you rise?  

 3                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Mr. President, if 

 4    the sponsor would yield for a few questions.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 6    sponsor yield? 

 7                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 8    Mr. President, I would like to actually go on the 

 9    bill first and then be happy to yield to 

10    questions, if that's okay.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Do you 

12    consent?

13                 SENATOR MARTINS:   (Inaudible.)

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

15    Krueger on the bill, then she yields.

16                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.  We're 

17    trying a little theory to shorten the debates 

18    tonight because there's so many of them.  So I 

19    thought if I ask the question and answer it for 

20    you, it might save us all some time.

21                 (Laughter.)

22                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   So no, this bill 

23    does not only help rich people.  This is not a 

24    population who needs protection.  Actually, over 

25    50 percent of the ground-lease co-ops are in the 


                                                               5075

 1    boroughs of Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx, and 

 2    some in Westchester.  Census data shows the 

 3    majority of ground-lease co-op units are in 

 4    locations falling slightly under the median 

 5    income.  And so the rich people who are 

 6    entrenching intergenerational wealth at the 

 7    expense of housing stability and affordability 

 8    are the wealthy ground owners, many of whom don't 

 9    live in New York.  

10                 Does this interfere with existing 

11    contracts?  No, it doesn't.  Because the bill 

12    doesn't change any material terms of a lease.  

13                 Is forcing ground owners to provide 

14    leases under rent stabilization unfair and 

15    radical?  Actually, that's already the existing 

16    law.  This simply clarifies that if there is a 

17    deconversion of a building with more than six 

18    units built before 1974, it would return to rent 

19    stabilization.  

20                 So it's not changing the contract, 

21    it's what do we do if the owner of the ground 

22    lease charges such a high new rent cost that the 

23    building defaults and the owners of those co-ops, 

24    of which there are about 12,000 units, 30,000 

25    people, they already would lose their equity in 


                                                               5076

 1    the apartments, but it would allow them to 

 2    actually stay there at a rent-regulated price.  

 3                 Does this create an unfair windfall 

 4    for co-op shareholders?  No, just the opposite.  

 5    They would lose their equity in the co-ops they 

 6    have purchased and they have been living in, 

 7    sometimes for decades, but at least it would make 

 8    sure that these 30,000 people didn't end up with 

 9    no place to live.  

10                 Does it violate a New York Court of 

11    Appeals decision in 2019 that you can't apply the 

12    law retroactively, and this is some type of 

13    illegal retroactive change in law?  No, because 

14    that case was an overcharge case that totally 

15    applies -- that's totally apples versus oranges, 

16    the Regina case, and it dealt with damages to 

17    landlords.  And so there's no retroactive damages 

18    to landlords in this bill.

19                 And why would the Legislature need 

20    to set who sets the first rent if the building 

21    goes from co-op to rent-regulated apartment?  

22    Well, someone has to do it.  So there's a model 

23    within this bill.  But DHCR, the state housing 

24    agency, can also choose to do it.  

25                 I have a lot more answers, but I 


                                                               5077

 1    think I'll stop there and let my colleague ask me 

 2    more questions.  Thank you.  

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 4    Krueger yields to you, Senator Martins.  

 5                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Thank you.  Thank 

 6    you.  You know, Mr. President, I want to thank 

 7    the sponsor for taking the time to write 

 8    questions and answer them for all of us in 

 9    advance.  But unfortunately, there are very few 

10    of my questions that are included in those that 

11    you wrote.  

12                 So we'll start with a few, if you 

13    don't mind.  Mr. President, if the sponsor will 

14    yield.  

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

16    sponsor yield?

17                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I will.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

19    sponsor yields.

20                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Thank you.

21                 So as I understand it, this bill 

22    would address a situation where you have a 

23    property owner, in some instances decades ago, 

24    40, 50, 60 years ago, who made a deal with a 

25    developer to put up a building on terms that they 


                                                               5078

 1    agreed on.  Would you agree?

 2                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 3                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Through you, 

 4    Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to 

 5    yield.  

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 7    sponsor yield?

 8                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

10    sponsor yields.  

11                 SENATOR MARTINS:   And so over -- 

12    according to that agreement, there was a term 

13    within which that property would pay a certain 

14    amount to the property owner.  And like I said, 

15    probably decades into the future, 40, 50, 60 

16    years are not unusual.  Would you agree to that?  

17                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

18                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Thank you.  

19                 Through you, Mr. President, if the 

20    sponsor would yield.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

22    sponsor yield?

23                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Many have a 

24    99-year period.  Through you, Mr. President.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   That was 


                                                               5079

 1    in response to your prior question.  

 2                 Senator Krueger, will you yield?  

 3                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Absolutely.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 5    sponsor yields.

 6                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Thank you, 

 7    Mr. President.  A long time -- 50 years, 

 8    99 years, however it may be.  But it's all part 

 9    of an agreement where the developer, subsequently 

10    the at co-op, agreed to make certain payments 

11    through a date certain, at which point they knew 

12    that they would be returning the property to the 

13    developer landowner -- excuse me, to the 

14    landowner.  My apologies, Senator.

15                 Is that right?

16                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

17    Mr. President.  I'm not sure if the understanding 

18    was that they would return the property, because 

19    I think most times when people build a building 

20    on land they don't imagine they'll be asked to 

21    move the building off at a future date.  

22                 So I think there was an assumption 

23    that there would continue to be future 

24    negotiations on what the underlying lease value 

25    was.


                                                               5080

 1                 But I think most people who bought 

 2    into these co-ops and the people who built the 

 3    buildings didn't imagine the storyline where one 

 4    day somebody would say, Take your building and 

 5    get out.

 6                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Thank you, 

 7    Senator.  

 8                 Mr. President, through you, if the 

 9    sponsor would continue to yield.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

11    sponsor yield?

12                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

14    sponsor yields.  

15                 SENATOR MARTINS:   So that was the 

16    agreement.  At some point between these two 

17    parties, they agreed that one of them who had 

18    land would allow the other one to build something 

19    on it for a period of time -- with the unspoken 

20    reality, but otherwise reality, that at some 

21    point that building would either have to 

22    renegotiate the terms or would have to literally 

23    leave.  Isn't that right?

24                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

25    Mr. President.  Certainly the former, that there 


                                                               5081

 1    would be negotiations over increasing lease costs 

 2    over time.  And we have seen that over and over 

 3    again on many of these parcels of land.  

 4                 But the concept that now, for the 

 5    first time ever, we're hearing various landowners 

 6    saying, We would just like you to leave so that 

 7    we can have the land back, and we'll keep that 

 8    building too, because it's on it, because you 

 9    obviously can't take it.  And if we claim it 

10    back, you have no equity rights or protection in 

11    any part of the buildings on the land.

12                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Mr. President, 

13    through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

14    yield.  

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

16    sponsor yield?

17                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

19    sponsor yields.

20                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Are you familiar 

21    with the term "land-lease apartment"?  Land-lease 

22    apartment.  Are these co-ops or these apartments, 

23    are they typically --

24                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   These are 

25    co-op --


                                                               5082

 1                 SENATOR MARTINS:   -- referred to as 

 2    land-lease apartments?

 3                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Land-lease 

 4    co-ops, yes.

 5                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Through you, 

 6    Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to 

 7    yield.  

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 9    sponsor yield?

10                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

12    sponsor yields.

13                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Have you had the 

14    opportunity to look at the cost of purchasing one 

15    of these land-lease co-ops, as compared to a 

16    market-rate co-op, to see if there is in fact a 

17    difference in the cost to acquire one as opposed 

18    to the other?  

19                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

20    Mr. President.  The prices have varied obviously 

21    through history and through the geography of 

22    where they're located.  But yes, the base price 

23    today on most of these buildings I believe is 

24    lower cost per unit than other new co-ops going 

25    up.  But the maintenance costs are often 


                                                               5083

 1    radically higher.  

 2                 So actually it's very difficult to 

 3    sell and leave, because the maintenance costs 

 4    have gone so high because of the growing 

 5    land-lease costs, that the economics of it are 

 6    actually problematic.  At least in Manhattan, 

 7    where I know the buildings very specifically.

 8                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Through you, 

 9    Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to 

10    yield.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

12    sponsor yield?

13                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

15    sponsor yields.

16                 SENATOR MARTINS:   You anticipated 

17    my next question.  

18                 So do we have similar land-lease 

19    co-op buildings in your district in Manhattan?

20                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

21    Mr. President.  We have approximately 

22    12,000 identified units -- Queens, Brooklyn, 

23    Bronx, Manhattan, Westchester.  The largest 

24    number of these units are in Brooklyn, Queens, 

25    Bronx.  But I can give you the numbers for each 


                                                               5084

 1    borough.

 2                 SENATOR MARTINS:   No, I was -- 

 3    through you, Mr. President, if the sponsor would 

 4    continue to yield.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   

 6    Certainly.  Will the sponsor yield?

 7                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 9    sponsor yields.  

10                 SENATOR MARTINS:   I was just asking 

11    about your particular district in Manhattan, 

12    whether or not there were buildings that would 

13    qualify under this legislation.

14                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

15                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Through you, 

16    Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to 

17    yield.  

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

19    sponsor yield?

20                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

22    sponsor yields.  

23                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Did any one of 

24    those buildings reach out to you and ask you to 

25    sponsor this legislation?


                                                               5085

 1                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   In the whole 

 2    coalition of buildings that came together, the 

 3    Ground-Lease Co-Op Coalition.  And they 

 4    definitely reached out to me.  They reached out 

 5    to other legislators.  Linda Rosenthal's carrying 

 6    it in the Assembly.  So yes.

 7                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Through you, 

 8    Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to 

 9    yield.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

11    sponsor yield? 

12                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

14    sponsor yields.

15                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Are any of these 

16    buildings coming off leases in your district 

17    where it would impact residents in your district 

18    currently?  

19                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Are any of them 

20    coming off where the -- just finish the last word 

21    one more time.

22                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Where it would 

23    impact residents of your district currently.

24                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.  Actually, 

25    many of these buildings are getting close enough 


                                                               5086

 1    to the deadline for negotiating leases that they 

 2    find themselves in situations where they can't 

 3    even go for mortgage -- new mortgages or 

 4    continuation of mortgages because banks don't 

 5    want to give you mortgages unless you can show 

 6    that you're going to actually have control of 

 7    that property within, what -- for at least 

 8    40 years?  I think 35 to 40 years.  

 9                 So many, many of these buildings, 

10    because of when they were built, are now at the 

11    point where they're within a three-year or up to 

12    20-year, I think, time frame, and so they cannot 

13    get refinancings.  So the costs keep going up, 

14    because they're getting older as buildings.  They 

15    can't go back to the banks and get ability to 

16    borrow for required repairs and capital 

17    improvements.  That's why we address that in this 

18    bill as well.  

19                 So yes, buildings in my district, 

20    buildings in the other boroughs.

21                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Thank you, 

22    Mr. President.  Through you, if the sponsor would 

23    continue to yield.  

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

25    sponsor yield? 


                                                               5087

 1                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 3    sponsor yields.

 4                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Is it unusual for 

 5    a tenant, someone who doesn't own property, to 

 6    come to the end of a term and have to vacate the 

 7    property on the terms of their lease?

 8                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   These are not 

 9    tenants in a rental situation.  These are 

10    cooperative owners.  So I don't think there's a 

11    tenancy equivalent.

12                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Through you, 

13    Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to 

14    yield.  

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

16    sponsor yield?

17                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

19    sponsor yields.

20                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Thank you.

21                 So the original deal, whether it's 

22    99 years ago, whether it's 50 years ago -- the 

23    original deal was one where a property owner, 

24    landowner leased the property for someone else to 

25    put a building on, and they received rent over a 


                                                               5088

 1    period of time.  And I understand that there's 

 2    also a component where you have co-ops in the 

 3    building, each of the individual apartments that 

 4    are contributing to paying a portion of the land 

 5    lease and obviously the maintenance and operation 

 6    of the building itself.

 7                 So there are two components here of 

 8    leasing, would you agree?

 9                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.  Yes.

10                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Okay.  So through 

11    you, Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue 

12    to yield.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

14    sponsor yield?

15                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

17    sponsor yields.

18                 SENATOR MARTINS:   So my question 

19    was at the end of the land lease, there was an 

20    agreement they would lease the land for a period 

21    of time we've already discussed -- it could be 

22    50 years, it could be 99 years.  But there comes 

23    a point where that lease ends and they knew all 

24    along, whoever purchased a piece of property or a 

25    co-op in that unit, that they would eventually 


                                                               5089

 1    have to give it back.  It's clear on all of the 

 2    documents that have to do with that co-op.

 3                 So isn't there a point where a lease 

 4    ends where the person has to hand back a property 

 5    or renegotiate the lease?  Isn't that what we're 

 6    dealing with here?  

 7                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Well, that's what 

 8    we were trying to deal with, ensuring a 

 9    renegotiation on the property.  

10                 And as far as giving it back, again, 

11    I think it's a bit more parallel to the law we 

12    addressed in this legislative body a few years 

13    ago about premanufactured homes being on property 

14    that they do not own.  They're called -- what are 

15    they called?  They're all over upstate.  Trailer 

16    parks.  But there's a nicer name for them 

17    nowadays, I apologize.  Manufactured home parks?  

18    Manufactured home parks.  I'm checking with my 

19    upstate colleague.  

20                 And so there was the issue that 

21    people bought these manufactured homes, which 

22    really can't be moved, but they didn't own the 

23    land, they were renting the land underneath, and 

24    then suddenly the developer decides they're going 

25    to go and sell this land.  And so the people were 


                                                               5090

 1    losing their homes, any equity value in their 

 2    homes, and had nowhere to go.  

 3                 And this Legislature said that's bad 

 4    public policy.  We have huge numbers of 

 5    disproportionately seniors living in these 

 6    manufactured home parks all over the State of 

 7    New York, losing the equity they have in their 

 8    manufactured home with nothing to do about it.  

 9    So we changed the law.  

10                 And that's to some degree the exact 

11    parallel model for this law.  We want to protect 

12    those 30,000 people in those 12,000 units from 

13    losing their homes because it's good public 

14    policy to protect them.

15                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Through you, 

16    Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to 

17    yield.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

19    sponsor yield?

20                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

22    sponsor yields.

23                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Thank you, 

24    Mr. President.

25                 Homes that they never owned, that 


                                                               5091

 1    they were leasing, and that the lease ran out.  

 2                 And so from a public policy 

 3    standpoint, I'll ask since they didn't own the 

 4    homes and they knew when they purchased their 

 5    interest in the co-op that they did not own the 

 6    homes and they were buying a limited period of 

 7    time within that building -- they knew that when 

 8    they bought it -- what is the public policy of 

 9    this state, and how is it fostered by us 

10    interfering in what is a private transaction and 

11    interfering in a contract?  

12                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   So I don't think 

13    most people thought they weren't buying their 

14    apartment.  It's called a co-op.  They were going 

15    through legal paperwork that said they were 

16    becoming share owners in the -- I have a co-op.  

17    I live in a co-op.  I actually think I bought it.  

18    And I have shares, right, in the corporation.  

19                 I don't happen to have a land-lease 

20    co-op.  I'm not sure I would advise anyone to go 

21    that direction.  But they didn't think that there 

22    was going to be a day where the underlying 

23    landowner would come along and say, We don't even 

24    want to continue with you, we'd like to keep the 

25    building, it's worth something, you guys, get 


                                                               5092

 1    out.  You have no equity rights here.  

 2                 And that's what we're trying to 

 3    address.  So we're not trying to, by the way, 

 4    take it from the landlords.  We're, one, asking 

 5    them to agree to make some adjustments so that 

 6    the building co-op owners on their land can 

 7    borrow for required repairs and capital 

 8    improvements.  

 9                 We're asking them to offer right of 

10    first refusal if they decide they do want to sell 

11    the land so that, if possible, the people who own 

12    and have the equity in the actual building can 

13    try to buy the land from them.  But it might be 

14    way too expensive, particularly with today's 

15    market prices.  

16                 And third, if that can't be 

17    possible, to clarify what already exists in the 

18    law that they should -- unfortunately, they would 

19    lose their equity ownership, the value of their 

20    units, but they would shift into being 

21    rent-regulated tenants in that building.

22                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Thank you, 

23    Mr. President.  Through you, if the sponsor would 

24    continue to yield.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 


                                                               5093

 1    sponsor yield? 

 2                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 4    sponsor yields.

 5                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Senator, you keep 

 6    using the word "equity ownership interest" in the 

 7    co-op.  But I think you and I have already agreed 

 8    that they didn't have an ownership interest in 

 9    that property.  They were renting the co-op for 

10    as long as the land lease is in place.  So they 

11    didn't give anything up, because they never had 

12    it to begin with.  Isn't that right?  

13                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Again, I don't 

14    have any of the paperwork of any individual 

15    deals.  But my understanding, it was the 

16    developer went into a lease agreement with the 

17    landowner.  The developer built the building.  

18    And the developer sold that off as a co-op 

19    building with equity shares in those apartments, 

20    like most other co-op arrangements.

21                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Through you, 

22    Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to 

23    yield.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

25    sponsor yield?


                                                               5094

 1                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 3    sponsor yields.  

 4                 SENATOR MARTINS:   So if I 

 5    understand, there's a portion of the bill that 

 6    would require that the units in the co-op at the 

 7    end of the land lease would be subject to rent 

 8    stabilization.  Is that right?  

 9                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

10                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Through you, 

11    Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to 

12    yield.  

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

14    sponsor yield?

15                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

17    sponsor yields.  

18                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Thank you.  Is 

19    there any means-testing required with regard to a 

20    rent-stabilization affordability?  

21                 You know, we're going to use the 

22    laws of the state that were meant to provide 

23    affordable housing for people who would qualify 

24    for it and had certain tests with regard to their 

25    income.  Are we going to make these units 


                                                               5095

 1    available for people who qualify and earn less 

 2    than a certain amount?  Or are we just going to 

 3    make it available to whoever happens to have been 

 4    able to pay for this unit regardless of how much 

 5    money they have and how much money they earn?

 6                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 7    Mr. President.  While I personally might have 

 8    liked the idea that we lived in a world where 

 9    rent regulation or rent stabilization was based 

10    on means testing, it is not.  For anyone.  There 

11    is no means testing.  

12                 There is a rent-regulation system 

13    that over a million apartments in New York City 

14    operate under.  And this would put those units 

15    into that system.  Somebody would set a base 

16    rent, likely the court or the state housing 

17    agency, and then all the standard rules of rent 

18    regulation would apply.

19                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Through you, 

20    Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to 

21    yield.  

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

23    sponsor yield?

24                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 


                                                               5096

 1    sponsor yields.

 2                 SENATOR MARTINS:   So in certain 

 3    communities -- and I understand there are land 

 4    leases in different boroughs in New York City.  

 5    But when we're talking about some of the most 

 6    affluent communities in the City of New York and 

 7    people are being, I guess through this bill, 

 8    provided an opportunity not only to stay in those 

 9    apartments but to stay there at below market 

10    rate, we're talking about affluent people living 

11    in some of the richest areas perhaps in the 

12    world, but certainly in New York City, now being 

13    told that they're going to live there at 

14    below-market rates, which doesn't provide 

15    affordability to anyone other than a rich person 

16    being able to stay inside an apartment.  

17                 Isn't that what this bill does?

18                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

19    Mr. President, there are buildings that are in my 

20    district.  My district is a high-cost district.  

21    Those buildings are filled with people some of 

22    whom have lived there for 40 and 50 years, many 

23    of whom are older New Yorkers who are now on 

24    fixed incomes.  All these people invested equity 

25    money in what they believed, even if they weren't 


                                                               5097

 1    right, was a co-op that they would be owning and 

 2    could resell.  

 3                 Under this storyline, they lose that 

 4    equity value they have.  Okay?  They're not 

 5    winning, they're losing.  Because they're losing 

 6    their equity value in the units.  

 7                 But we are hoping that they are 

 8    going to be able to stay in their homes if there 

 9    is a rent-regulation arrangement, which the law 

10    already established in 1974.  It's just that 

11    nobody has tried to use it because this issue is 

12    new because the people who are really trying to 

13    make enormous money on this storyline are the 

14    owners of the land, the vast majority of whom 

15    don't even live in New York State, who have been 

16    making disproportionate increased money on this 

17    land for decades and decades.  

18                 We're just trying to continue to 

19    make sure we have stable housing for this group 

20    of people, the vast majority of whom we would 

21    call middle-income and, in some cases and 

22    neighborhoods, low-income people.  We don't want 

23    them to lose their homes.

24                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Thank you, 

25    Mr. President.  And thank you, Senator Krueger.


                                                               5098

 1                 On the bill.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 3    Martins on the bill.

 4                 SENATOR MARTINS:   You know, two 

 5    sophisticated groups reach an agreement and make 

 6    a deal.  In this case, very sophisticated people, 

 7    so much so that they actually came up with a 

 8    construct that allows for the building of an 

 9    entire co-op building, dozens if not hundreds of 

10    units, on land they don't own.  

11                 And now, when it runs its course, 

12    after decades up to 99 years, somehow there's a 

13    state interest in intervening to make sure that 

14    very affluent people who knew what they were 

15    buying, who got the benefit of the bargain by 

16    investing at much lower rates than market rate.  

17                 Where is the state interest in 

18    interfering with the contract?  Frankly, it's 

19    unconstitutional.  We've been down this road 

20    before.  It's clearly unconstitutional.  And yet 

21    here we are again, as a state, being asked to 

22    create winners and losers.  

23                 The idea that we have people who 

24    live in these apartments who don't know that they 

25    were buying an interest in a co-op that was built 


                                                               5099

 1    on a land lease frankly is unfortunate.  Because 

 2    there is no way that anyone is going to buy a 

 3    unit and not know, either through a title search 

 4    or through a closing or through their attorneys 

 5    or basically through the purchase price itself.  

 6                 Because two units side by side, two 

 7    buildings next door to each other, one is market 

 8    rate, the other one is one of these land-lease 

 9    co-ops, the land lease co-op was sold -- you can 

10    go look -- for up to 30 to 50 percent less.  So 

11    they got the benefit of buying it.  

12                 You know why they can't finance it?  

13    Because no bank's going to finance it if you only 

14    have less than 20 or 25 years left.  So you're 

15    paying 50 cents on the dollar to live where you 

16    want to live.  

17                 And then when the money comes due 

18    because the deal you cut comes due, rather than 

19    getting the benefit of the bargain and moving on, 

20    you come to the New York State Legislature and 

21    ask to pass a law because someone else is greedy.  

22    Someone else is greedy.  Not the people who are 

23    living there, not the people who got the benefit 

24    of paying less.  No, we're going to pass a law, 

25    we're going to interfere with another contract 


                                                               5100

 1    because someone believes it's not fair.

 2                 When are we going to start 

 3    legislating based on people being sophisticated, 

 4    making a deal, understanding the consequences and 

 5    having the benefit of the bargain they made?

 6                 There are stories out there, we can 

 7    refer to them.  It's clear, a simple Google 

 8    search for anybody who wants to, what these 

 9    values are.  So I get it, I understand.  I think 

10    we all do.  People are in a position where they 

11    don't want to be -- they don't want to have to 

12    pay more than they did.  

13                 But the people who are going to 

14    benefit, the person who paid 50 cents on the 

15    dollars to live there, is now not only going to 

16    have the benefit of having paid less, they're now 

17    going to have the benefit of living in a 

18    rent-subsidized apartment at below standard 

19    rates.  Because that's the next natural 

20    consequence.  

21                 Now, from a public policy 

22    standpoint, I challenge everyone here -- we've 

23    all talked about affordability and affordable 

24    housing and the crisis we live in here in 

25    New York when it comes to affordability.  I've 


                                                               5101

 1    got kids living in New York City who can't afford 

 2    an apartment, they have to double up or triple up 

 3    with their friends, they're out of college and 

 4    they have to pay thousands of dollars a month to 

 5    live in an apartment.  

 6                 And yet we're going to, without 

 7    means testing, allow people who live in some of 

 8    the most affluent areas in the city certainly, 

 9    the opportunity to live in rent-stabilized 

10    apartments at below-market rates.  Think about 

11    that for a second.  We're going to use the 

12    authority here, we're going to pass a law that 

13    says rich people are going to live at 

14    below-market rates, and then we're going to 

15    actually allow them to pay less for the 

16    apartment, stay there, not have the bargain that 

17    they bargained for, and then reward them on top 

18    of it by making sure they stay there at 

19    below-market rates.  

20                 We're not going to make those 

21    apartments means-tested so that people like our 

22    children and our constituents who are looking to 

23    live in New York City, work a job in New York 

24    City, so that if they're making less than median 

25    income, have a place to live -- no, we're going 


                                                               5102

 1    to allow the people who are there -- we're just 

 2    going to give them a gift.  How does this make 

 3    sense, and why would we do this?  

 4                 Now, if you wanted to tell me we 

 5    were going to do this so that we can increase the 

 6    number of affordable units that were in New York 

 7    City, we'd have a discussion.  If we were 

 8    actually going to prioritize means testing it so 

 9    that people who had less could perhaps still 

10    afford to live in New York City, we'd have a 

11    discussion.  

12                 But that's not what we're doing 

13    here.  We're creating winners and losers.  And 

14    again, for whom?  Where is the state interest?  

15    Why are we passing a law for this?  Why are we 

16    interfering in contracts that were entered into 

17    at arm's length -- which again, I believe is 

18    unconstitutional.  I know it's unconstitutional.

19                 And when these building owners get 

20    around to suing as a result of this 

21    unconstitutional law -- if it passes, because I 

22    still have hope that you'll all be convinced to 

23    follow my lead and vote against this bill.  But 

24    when they sue because it is unconstitutional, 

25    we'll be right back.


                                                               5103

 1                 So it's a bad idea, Mr. President.  

 2    I think, you know, clearly creating winners and 

 3    losers through legislation and interfering in 

 4    contracts is not something we should do.  It's 

 5    something we've been warned about in the past.  

 6    And I strongly urge my colleagues to look at what 

 7    that really is.

 8                 These aren't apartments in the 

 9    poorest areas of the city.  That's not what we're 

10    dealing with here.  We're dealing with a group 

11    who actually hired lobbyists, a coalition, to 

12    come up here and change laws.  

13                 Let's understand what it is.  Let's 

14    treat it accordingly.  

15                 Mr. President, I'll be voting no.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

17    you, Senator Martins.

18                 Senator -- 

19                 (Inaudible exchange.)  

20                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'd like to 

21    respond to my colleague.  First off -- 

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

23    Krueger on the bill.

24                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.  

25                 There's nothing -- there's nothing 


                                                               5104

 1    in this bill that says the rent regulation will 

 2    be below market rate.  Many of us who live in a 

 3    world of rent regulation know that very often the 

 4    rent-regulated levels of rent are pretty much 

 5    exactly what market rate is.  We've even created 

 6    programs in this state -- 421-a, for example -- 

 7    where you can get more than market rate under 

 8    what we call affordable housing.  

 9                 We're not doing any of that now.  

10    We're just talking about if you lose your 

11    equity -- that's real money you paid in for that 

12    unit -- that you can be at a rent-regulated 

13    standard.  Not necessarily less than your 

14    neighbors, not even less than market rate.  That 

15    will be determined by DHCR in a court process.  

16                 As to whether these buildings would 

17    suddenly become available to lower-income people, 

18    since the whole issue here is the underlying 

19    landowners asking for ridiculous sums of money as 

20    rents -- on the rent on the land, they're 

21    certainly not going to throw these people out and 

22    tear those buildings down and turn it into 

23    affordable housing.  With all due respect, just 

24    the opposite.

25                 So the result will be even more 


                                                               5105

 1    luxury housing in certain areas of the city -- 

 2    probably my district, where nobody ever seems to 

 3    want to put in affordable housing -- and a loss 

 4    to the middle-income people and the older people 

 5    who put their life savings into these units and 

 6    will lose their buildings.  So don't get 

 7    confused.  

 8                 Now, could a court strike it down as 

 9    unconstitutional?  I don't know.  I've been here 

10    23 years.  I've watched real estate attempt to 

11    get things shot down as unconstitutional.  If 

12    they win in court, obviously this is all moot.  

13    But it seems an awful lot of the time they aren't 

14    winning in court because we are doing what we're 

15    supposed to be doing to try to protect people in 

16    their homes who have invested and invested their 

17    lives and their time in communities.  And that's 

18    all I'm asking for people to do here.  

19                 And now I'm happy to take more 

20    questions and not speak on the bill a third time.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

22    you, Senator Krueger.

23                 Senator Palumbo, why do you rise?

24                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

25    Mr. President.  Would the sponsor yield for a few 


                                                               5106

 1    questions, please?

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 3    sponsor yield?

 4                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 6    sponsor yields.  

 7                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

 8    Senator Krueger.  And I saw some of your 

 9    colleagues wavering, that Senator Martins almost 

10    got them to vote no, so I'm going to drive it 

11    home and maybe we'll defeat this bad boy.

12                 (Scattered laughter.)

13                 SENATOR PALUMBO:  But so, Senator, 

14    regarding the retroactivity.  And I think there 

15    were some comments made in the last debate 

16    questions with Senator Martins about you don't 

17    believe that it has a retroactive effect, and you 

18    were discussing that Regina case that the Court 

19    of Appeals decided, saying that the prior -- a 

20    similar-type provision regarding overcharges had 

21    retroactive effect.

22                 So in that regard, you indicated 

23    earlier that it was 1974 that the rent 

24    regulations came into effect, when they were 

25    created.  Isn't it also true, though, that some 


                                                               5107

 1    of these contracts, as we indicated, can be 

 2    99 years.  They were -- the ground leases were 

 3    executed prior to 1974.  Is that fair to say?

 4                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 5    Mr. President, I don't know the dates of any 

 6    specific land leases.  So I -- it's possible.

 7                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you.  

 8                 Will the sponsor yield?

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

10    sponsor yield?

11                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

13    sponsor yields.

14                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you.  

15                 And in that regard, I think it's 

16    only been about 20 years where landlords are 

17    required to keep records of prior rents as well.  

18    Is that accurate?  

19                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Twenty years?  

20    No, I think it's longer.

21                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   Twentyish.  Do 

22    you know?  I mean, if you could please correct 

23    me.

24                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   No, I think the 

25    DHCR records go back farther than that, actually.  


                                                               5108

 1    They might be on paper somewhere in a warehouse.  

 2    But I think they go back further.

 3                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   Will the sponsor 

 4    yield?

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 6    sponsor yield?

 7                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 9    sponsor yields.  

10                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   To that point, 

11    Senator -- through you, Mr. President -- there 

12    are certainly -- the likelihood of some of these 

13    ground leases, though, that were executed prior 

14    to the provisions requiring rent records to be 

15    maintained -- similar to the first question I 

16    just asked you, that prior to rent regulation and 

17    prior to the requirement to maintain those 

18    records, because some of them are so old.

19                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

20    Mr. President.  I just want to clarify.  

21                 These were not rent buildings prior, 

22    so there wouldn't have been rent records.  These 

23    were empty pieces of land that cooperative 

24    apartment buildings were built on.  So I don't 

25    know what the back rent question might be, so 


                                                               5109

 1    just want to make sure I'm understanding the 

 2    questioner.

 3                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   Sure.  Will the 

 4    sponsor yield?

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 6    sponsor yield?

 7                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 9    sponsor yields.  

10                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   Well -- so, 

11    Senator, if I could direct you to -- I believe 

12    it's page 4, Section 3 of the bill, right above 

13    the severability clause, which is Section 4.  

14    "Pursuant to subdivision 2 of 233-c of the 

15    Real Property Law the initial rent shall be the 

16    most recent legal regulated rent for the housing 

17    accommodation adjusted by all lawful annual 

18    guideline amounts for one-year leases established 

19    by the Rent Guidelines Board that would have been 

20    permitted had the housing accommodation been 

21    continuously subject to this law, but if the 

22    documentation necessary to reliably identify the 

23    most recent legal regulated rent for the housing 

24    accommodation is not available or is 

25    inappropriate, such initial amount shall be 


                                                               5110

 1    determined by" DHCR.  

 2                 So directing you to that section, 

 3    that's really -- I'm just trying to get some 

 4    clarification.  Maybe you can explain it a little 

 5    bit regarding what the obligations are.  

 6                 And my question is that I believe 

 7    that many of these leases were executed prior to 

 8    the requirement to maintain those rent records, 

 9    if in fact they were previously rent-regulated.  

10                 Does that make sense?

11                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

12    Mr. President.  Again, the leases may -- the 

13    underlying ground lease may in fact be from 

14    pre-1974, but these buildings were never rental 

15    buildings so there is no rent history on these 

16    buildings.

17                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   Would the sponsor 

18    continue to yield.  

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

20    sponsor yield? 

21                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

23    sponsor yields.

24                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   So then the 

25    adequate rent would be decided by DHCR?


                                                               5111

 1                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   That is my 

 2    understanding, yes.

 3                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you.  Will 

 4    the sponsor continue to yield.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 6    sponsor yield?

 7                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 9    sponsor yields.  

10                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   And just one 

11    other area that I'd like to inquire.  I want to 

12    keep this moving because the hour is late.  

13                 You indicated that the owner of the 

14    co-op share -- just so our colleagues understand, 

15    there's a ground lease that they lease from, of 

16    course, the landowner.  However, they own a -- 

17    there's a cooperative corporation that owns the 

18    building, and the people actually purchase a 

19    share to occupy their apartment.  Is that 

20    accurate?

21                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Correct.

22                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   Will the sponsor 

23    yield?  

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

25    sponsor yield?


                                                               5112

 1                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, yes.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 3    sponsor yields.

 4                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   So upon 

 5    deregulation with this bill, you said they lose 

 6    their equity, meaning they no longer will have an 

 7    opportunity to sell their cooperative share on 

 8    the free market, but in exchange they get a good 

 9    lease, or a lease that must be -- that's 

10    rent-regulated that must be offered to them.  Is 

11    that accurate?  

12                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Correct.

13                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   Will the sponsor 

14    yield?

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

16    sponsor yield?

17                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

19    sponsor yields.  

20                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   So there's 

21    another aspect of our Constitution, 

22    Mr. President, called the "takings clause," where 

23    when you enact legislation and you take something 

24    from someone, which also is a retroactive, 

25    because some of these apartments -- and I have 


                                                               5113

 1    just a couple of examples.  At 50 Gramercy Park 

 2    North, it has 23 full-service apartments, with 

 3    housekeeping, room service, spa services, pet 

 4    walking, fresh flower services.  They sell for 

 5    $9 million.  

 6                 At 995 Fifth Avenue, Stanhope, which 

 7    is one of these ground-lease buildings, the 

 8    penthouse apartment is 7,000 square feet, 11-room 

 9    units with five terraces, listed for $50 million.  

10                 So in that regard, Senator, can you 

11    tell me how this legislation does not flagrantly 

12    violate the takings clause when that person who 

13    is currently living in a $50 million co-op 

14    suddenly gets the tremendous benefit of paying 

15    rent to live there instead of owning a 

16    $50 million apartment?  

17                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

18    Mr. President.  I don't know of any of those 

19    specific examples.  I can just tell you that the 

20    averages are in a radically different price range 

21    and size range.

22                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   Will the sponsor 

23    yield.  

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

25    sponsor yield? 


                                                               5114

 1                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 3    sponsor yields.

 4                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

 5    Senator.  I mean, that's kind of a glaring 

 6    example.  And I know that you even mentioned 

 7    before we started any questioning today on this 

 8    bill that, you know -- that you had argued that 

 9    it was constitutional and it doesn't only benefit 

10    very, very wealthy people.  

11                 So even if it's $10,000 that they're 

12    losing -- it could be 10,000, it could be 

13    10 million -- this bill in its current form would 

14    require of each of those individual 

15    cooperative-share owners to lose the value of 

16    that share upon deregulation.  Isn't that 

17    accurate?

18                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   In the examples 

19    given, I actually assume that the cooperative 

20    owners, if they in fact build apartments of that 

21    value, would just buy out the land lease and 

22    would never fall into this situation.

23                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   I'm sorry, would 

24    you repeat that last part?  

25                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   When you're 


                                                               5115

 1    talking about a small building with enormously 

 2    wealthy expensive apartments, I think they would 

 3    just buy out the land lease and would never be in 

 4    this situation.  So I don't think this really 

 5    would apply to them.  

 6                 They would make the economic 

 7    decision not to lose the equity value in their 

 8    apartments and buy out the land lease.

 9                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   Will the sponsor 

10    continue to yield.  

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

12    sponsor yield? 

13                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

15    sponsor yields.

16                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   Well, in that 

17    example, Senator, then you're now talking about 

18    very high value property.  They may not be in a 

19    position to purchase that ground lease at market 

20    value.  So they're either going to be 

21    deregulated, or now you're forcing their hand to 

22    now engage -- even though they have a contract 

23    that existed long before this legislation, and in 

24    fact maybe for a hundred years, with an option to 

25    renew where the parties, as mentioned by my 


                                                               5116

 1    colleague earlier, are at an arm's-length 

 2    position when they enter into it because they are 

 3    actually undervalued a little bit because they're 

 4    encumbered by a ground lease -- you're now 

 5    forcing those people and you're rewriting that 

 6    contract so that they either have to buy it out 

 7    or are subject to the loss of either a little, a 

 8    lot, or tremendous equity.  

 9                 And those are my significant 

10    concerns.

11                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I don't think 

12    that was a question, so I'm not going to answer.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

14    Palumbo, could you rephrase that in the form of a 

15    question?  

16                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   I guess -- would 

17    you agree?  

18                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I would agree 

19    that there are various scenarios allowed for in 

20    this legislation.  Right?  Ensuring that the 

21    equity apartment co-op owners now have the 

22    ability to go to a bank and refinance their 

23    mortgage and maintenance so that hopefully they 

24    can pay the costs that are being demanded from 

25    them, Option A.


                                                               5117

 1                 Option B, the possibility of having 

 2    first refusal if the landowner decides it's in 

 3    his or her interest to sell the land.  

 4                 And again, in the examples you just 

 5    gave where a unit is worth $50 million, I'd say, 

 6    if I was that owner, I would want to make sure I 

 7    didn't lose my $50 million equity and I would 

 8    work with my cooperative apartment colleagues to 

 9    buy the underlying piece of land.  

10                 And then, third, only if those 

11    things don't happen and the landowner says, Nope, 

12    I just want you out, I'm not agreeing to 

13    anything, I'm not selling to you, that then that 

14    would be the scenario where they would take over 

15    the building and have the equity value for the 

16    long term.  But if you are living there, you 

17    would have rent-regulated status for the time you 

18    are there.

19                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

20    Senator.  

21                 On the bill, please, Mr. President.  

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

23    Palumbo on the bill.

24                 SENATOR PALUMBO:   And thank you, 

25    Senator Krueger.  I appreciate your passion for 


                                                               5118

 1    this issue.  I understand what you're trying to 

 2    achieve here.  

 3                 But, you know, I have -- in my 

 4    district I have many folks who are seniors who 

 5    bought, out on the East End of Long Island, a 

 6    little fishing cottage, a block or on a beach 

 7    block from the ocean for pennies 45 years ago.  

 8    And now that little tiny beach cottage is worth 

 9    $3 million.  So we have concerns about being 

10    reassessed for property tax values.  They're not 

11    people of means, they just happened to get lucky.  

12                 We can have a situation just like 

13    that there where you have folks who cannot 

14    afford -- an 80-year-old single senior will not 

15    have any money to purchase the ground lease in 

16    this circumstance upon deregulation.  So they're 

17    going to have to lose that equity.  And great, 

18    they get a rent-regulated apartment, but they 

19    have lost a significant amount of equity and 

20    value, in violation of the takings clause.  

21                 And one last quick comment.  

22    Senator Krueger made an analogy to the 

23    manufactured mobile homes.  I have several in my 

24    district.  And it's actually -- I would say -- I 

25    won't even say I would agree with this, but with 


                                                               5119

 1    manufactured mobile homes, I think it's 223 or 

 2    233 of the Real Property Law, is very strict 

 3    regulations.  They must offer renewals every 

 4    year.  They must have reasonable increases.  They 

 5    can't be significant.  That would be the way to 

 6    deal with this.  Just treat it like a 

 7    manufactured mobile home.  

 8                 If we think that there's a concern 

 9    than ground lease owners are gouging those 

10    cooperative tenants, then just simply regulate 

11    that.  Again, I'm not saying I would agree with 

12    it.  

13                 But this is so drastic and so 

14    unconstitutional, unfortunately I have to vote 

15    no.  And I can see a few others I may have 

16    brought along with us.  So hopefully, 

17    Mr. President, they'll follow my lead.  

18                 I vote no.  Thank you.  

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

20    you, Senator Palumbo.  

21                 Are there any other Senators wishing 

22    to be heard?

23                 Seeing and hearing none, debate is 

24    closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.

25                 Read the last section.


                                                               5120

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.  This 

 2    act shall take effect immediately.  

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

 4    roll.

 5                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 7    Stavisky to explain her vote.

 8                 SENATOR STAVISKY:   Thank you, 

 9    Mr. President.  

10                 Let me dispel a couple of myths that 

11    I heard from several of my colleagues on the 

12    other side of the aisle.  Not all ground leases 

13    are held by rich co-ops.  We have several in 

14    Queens with ground leases.  Three of them are in 

15    my Senate district.  They are very definitely not 

16    rich.  They are middle-class people struggling to 

17    keep the co-ops alive.

18                 Secondly, I heard somebody say that 

19    this was unconstitutional.  A year ago we did 

20    legislation for three of the co-ops who were 

21    having trouble negotiating the renewal of their 

22    ground lease because they were built right after 

23    the Second World War and they had 99-year leases, 

24    and their shareholders were having difficulty 

25    selling their co-ops because new buyers could not 


                                                               5121

 1    afford the 25-year mortgage that Fannie Mae and 

 2    others were offering.

 3                 There are other co-ops in Queens I 

 4    know with ground leases, and they are not wealthy 

 5    co-ops.  They're struggling.  And we have to do 

 6    more for people who live in co-ops because they 

 7    are part of the community also.  

 8                 So, Mr. President, I thank 

 9    Senator Krueger for this bill, and I vote aye.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

11    Stavisky to be recorded in the affirmative.

12                 Announce the results.  Sorry about 

13    that.  Pardon me.  

14                 (Pause.)

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

16    the results.

17                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

18    Calendar 634, voting in the negative are 

19    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Bynoe, 

20    Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Chan, Gallivan, Griffo, 

21    Helming, Hinchey, Lanza, Martinez, Martins, 

22    Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, 

23    Rhoads, Rolison, C. Ryan, S. Ryan, Skoufis, Stec, 

24    Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber, Weik and Sutton.

25                 Ayes, 34.  Nays, 28.


                                                               5122

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 2    is passed.

 3                 The Secretary will read.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 5    1411, Senate Print 5597, by Senator May, an act 

 6    to amend the General Business Law.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 8    Borrello, I haven't seen you in a while.  Why do 

 9    you rise?

10                 (Laughter.)

11                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Would the 

12    sponsor yield for a question.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

14    May, do you yield?

15                 SENATOR MAY:   I do.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

17    sponsor yields.

18                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Through you, 

19    Mr. President.  Have you ever been in one of 

20    those big, big snowplows like you see on the 

21    Thruway?  Have you ever like driven one or been 

22    in one?

23                 SENATOR MAY:   I never have, no.

24                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

25    will the sponsor continue to yield.  


                                                               5123

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 2    sponsor yield?

 3                 SENATOR MAY:   I will.  

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 5    Senator yields.

 6                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Well, you're 

 7    really missing out because it's a lot of fun.  

 8    You know, these things are out there pushing all 

 9    this snow in these, you know, horrible 

10    conditions.  

11                 But my point is when you are in a 

12    complex piece of commercial equipment like that, 

13    it is not something that rolls off the factory 

14    assembly-line like that.  They start with a truck 

15    and they might add modifications -- the plows, 

16    all the equipment, the lights.  In some cases 

17    it's three, four, five, 10 different vendors.  

18                 And I understand the purpose of this 

19    law is to take the Lemon Law -- which works well 

20    for passenger vehicles with, you know, something 

21    that rolls off the assembly-line and is sold.  

22    But how do you expect something like this to 

23    apply to a vehicle that has been modified, in 

24    some cases by more than a dozen different 

25    manufacturers?  Who can be responsible?  


                                                               5124

 1                 SENATOR MAY:   Through you, 

 2    Mr. President.  This bill doesn't affect warranty 

 3    law in the sense of the laws that exist, both 

 4    federal and state level, against what are known 

 5    as unreasonable modifications.  Which would be 

 6    anything that would change the way the actual 

 7    inner workings of the vehicle operate.

 8                 So if modifications have been made 

 9    that don't conform to that, that wouldn't be 

10    grounds for like recall of the vehicle because of 

11    the Lemon Law.

12                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

13    will the sponsor continue to yield.  

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

15    sponsor yield? 

16                 SENATOR MAY:   I would.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

18    sponsor yields.

19                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So when someone 

20    makes a modification to a vehicle for a 

21    commercial purpose, that wouldn't be 

22    unreasonable, right?  So you still now have to 

23    say the manufacturer of the truck, the four 

24    wheels, the drive train, the chassis, is now 

25    going to be responsible if that, you know, 


                                                               5125

 1    snowplow malfunctions, which they didn't install 

 2    and aren't warrantying.  Wouldn't that be the 

 3    case with this bill?

 4                 SENATOR MAY:   Through you, 

 5    Mr. President.  This has to do with anything that 

 6    doesn't conform to the warranty -- a 

 7    nonconformity, a defect, or a condition that 

 8    doesn't conform to the warranty.  Meaning 

 9    whatever the vehicle was that the manufacturer 

10    sold or the dealer sold, that part of it, if it 

11    is defective, can then -- then the purchaser can 

12    either return it or have it be repaired by the --

13                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

14    will the sponsor continue to yield.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

16    sponsor yield? 

17                 SENATOR MAY:   I would.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

19    sponsor yields.

20                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Again, with a 

21    regular passenger vehicle we know what the limits 

22    are.  We know there's a warranty and we know that 

23    when something isn't right, under the Lemon Law 

24    you take it back to the dealer, the dealer fixes 

25    it, and if they can't fix it, they have to give 


                                                               5126

 1    you a reasonable compensation, including a new 

 2    car.

 3                 But what happens with this vehicle 

 4    that was purchased and modified?  How do we prove 

 5    that the modifications that were made, whether it 

 6    be by a third party or by the --

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 8    Borrello, one second.  

 9                 Excuse me.  I know the hour is late, 

10    but if we could have some order in the chamber, 

11    please, I'd appreciate it.  Thank you.  

12                 Senator Borrello, please continue.

13                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you, 

14    Mr. President.

15                 How do we know, how are we supposed 

16    to determine that it is indeed something that the 

17    manufacturer should be responsible for?

18                 SENATOR MAY:   Through you, 

19    Mr. President.  So you can modify a passenger 

20    vehicle -- you can put new lights on it, you can 

21    put a trailer hitch on it, there are all kinds of 

22    things you can do it that don't void the 

23    warranty.  

24                 This applies specifically to the 

25    parts of the vehicle that were sold under that 


                                                               5127

 1    warranty.

 2                 I do think if you're adding a bucket 

 3    or a snowplow or something like that that might 

 4    cause the whole vehicle to function differently, 

 5    that that would be up for question in this 

 6    process.  But in general, if you're sold a 

 7    defective vehicle, then you deserve restitution.

 8                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

 9    will the sponsor continue to yield.  

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

11    sponsor yield? 

12                 SENATOR MAY:   I will.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

14    sponsor yields.

15                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   We understand 

16    compensation.  But again, there are so many 

17    people involved in what turns out to be a final 

18    product.  

19                 I don't care if it's a snowplow or a 

20    fire engine or a food truck, if we're holding 

21    somebody responsible for something that they 

22    ultimately did not either design that vehicle for 

23    or, in the end, approve the final spec that went 

24    into that vehicle, how are we determining what 

25    percentage of responsibility there is versus, you 


                                                               5128

 1    know, the -- for example, in a food truck, you've 

 2    got the truck and you've got somebody that 

 3    installed a grill and Ansul system and a vent.  

 4                 If those things are defective, who 

 5    is going to be responsible for that?

 6                 SENATOR MAY:   Through you, 

 7    Mr. President.  Again, it's -- it operates the 

 8    same way that it would with a passenger vehicle, 

 9    that it would apply to what the law determines is 

10    the part of the vehicle that came from the 

11    manufacturer that has the defect.

12                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

13    will the sponsor continue to yield? 

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

15    sponsor yield? 

16                 SENATOR MAY:   Yes.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

18    sponsor yields.

19                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Look, I know 

20    that most of the time bills that come before us 

21    like this aren't something that we woke up and 

22    dreamed up and wrote a bill and submitted.  Some 

23    are, but most of the time there's somebody that 

24    has either requested it or has come to someone 

25    and said this is a problem that needs to be 


                                                               5129

 1    fixed.  

 2                 What happened here?  Who needs this 

 3    bill?  

 4                 (Pause.)

 5                 SENATOR MAY:   Through you, 

 6    Mr. President.  So this bill came to me via 

 7    Senator Thomas.  But my understanding is that for 

 8    him it was businesses that reached out, small 

 9    businesses in particular, that could not get 

10    restitution when they purchased vehicles that had 

11    inherent defects in them.

12                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

13    will the sponsor continue to yield.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

15    sponsor yield? 

16                 SENATOR MAY:   Yes.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

18    sponsor yields.

19                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   You know, I'm a 

20    small business owner.  We have a tractor, we 

21    have, you know, other vehicles.  But at the end 

22    of the day, you know, this bill now extends to 

23    used vehicles.  Commercial vehicles, you know, 

24    are -- they're -- they're -- you know, people are 

25    hard on them.  


                                                               5130

 1                 You know, our little John Deere 

 2    tractor is used to grade five acres of beach 

 3    every day, seven days a week, all summer long.  

 4    Quite frankly, I don't know who'd want to buy it.  

 5    But yet this law would cover warranty of that.  

 6    So am I responsible if someone buys that tractor 

 7    that has many hours on it, pretty tough hours, 

 8    and something goes wrong?  Who's responsible?  Am 

 9    I responsible?

10                 SENATOR MAY:   So again, there are 

11    restrictions when it comes to used vehicles -- 

12    how many miles it can have on it, how long it's 

13    been in service.  

14                 And again, this refers to defects 

15    that were inherent in the vehicle when the 

16    purchaser bought it and were discovered within a 

17    fairly short period of time after purchasing a 

18    used vehicle.  

19                 And I will point out that it 

20    specifically talks about modifications being 

21    something that would not be covered.

22                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

23    on the bill.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

25    Borrello on the bill.


                                                               5131

 1                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you, 

 2    Senator May.  If you do get a chance to get into 

 3    a plow truck, I highly recommend it.

 4                 Mr. President, this idea of trying 

 5    to apply a Lemon Law to commercial vehicles is 

 6    just -- well, it's just wrought with problems.  

 7    You are going to have vehicles that have been 

 8    modified by a third party that that's what they 

 9    do.  You're going to have others that were not.  

10    You're going to have things in the used market 

11    that could have after-market things that may or 

12    may not have a substantial negative impact on the 

13    structure and function of the vehicle.  

14                 I talked about the tractor that we 

15    have at our business.  I don't understand how the 

16    manufacturer should be responsible for things 

17    that have been done to the vehicle, the tractor, 

18    years and years after if we turned around and 

19    tried to sell it.  

20                 So the problem I see is I think this 

21    bill, quite frankly, is a solution in search of a 

22    problem, which is probably why it's been around 

23    for so long.  It's passed this chamber many times 

24    and it hasn't really gone anywhere.  Because in 

25    the end, it's not feasible and practical.


                                                               5132

 1                 We have oftentimes taken something 

 2    that seems simple, consumer protection for 

 3    something like a passenger vehicle, and we're 

 4    trying to apply it now to a very different, very 

 5    complex commercial vehicle situation.

 6                 So this is really not something that 

 7    I think is going to be -- in the end isn't going 

 8    to be helpful to small business, because small 

 9    businesses are going to bear the brunt of the 

10    aftereffects of something like this.  The fact 

11    that now it's going to be more expensive to buy 

12    things like after-market warranties, to be able 

13    to affordably buy that commercial equipment that 

14    you need, whether it's new or used, because there 

15    is now this extended liability for things that 

16    really aren't the responsibility of the 

17    manufacturer.  

18                 But in the end, who do we look 

19    towards in these situations?  We look towards the 

20    deepest pocket.  Not the person that's the 

21    most -- not the company that's actually 

22    responsible for the issue, but the person who's 

23    got the most money to fix the issue.  And that's 

24    not -- in this case, in a commercial vehicle 

25    that's been modified, that's not typically the 


                                                               5133

 1    person that's responsible for that.

 2                 So for that reason and many others, 

 3    I will continue to be voting no on this.  

 4                 Thank you, Mr. President.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

 6    you, Senator Borrello.

 7                 Are there any other Senators wishing 

 8    to be heard?  

 9                 Seeing and hearing none, debate is 

10    closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.

11                 Read the last section.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

13    act shall take effect immediately.  

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

15    roll.

16                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

18    the results.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

20    Calendar 1411, voting in the negative are 

21    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 

22    Chan, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Lanza, Martins, 

23    Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, 

24    Rhoads, Rolison, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk Weber and 

25    Weik.


                                                               5134

 1                 Ayes, 41.  Nays, 21.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 3    is passed.

 4                 Senator Gianaris.

 5                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

 6    the next bill on the list, Calendar 1681, had the 

 7    lay-aside removed, so can we please take that up 

 8    noncontroversial, please.  

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Upon 

10    consent, the lay-aside has been removed and the 

11    bill will be taken up from the noncontroversial 

12    calendar.

13                 The Secretary will read.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

15    1681, Senate Print 1986, by Senator Harckham, an 

16    act to amend the Education Law.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Read the 

18    last section.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

20    act shall take effect immediately.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

22    roll.

23                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

25    the results.


                                                               5135

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 62.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 3    is passed.

 4                 Senator Gianaris, we're going to 

 5    return to the controversial calendar?  

 6                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Correct, 

 7    Mr. President.  Let's get back to Calendar 1701 

 8    on the controversial calendar.  

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

10    Secretary will ring the bell.

11                 The Secretary will read.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

13    1701, Senate Print 7032, by Senator Sepúlveda, an 

14    act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

16    Lanza, why do you rise?

17                 SENATOR LANZA:   Mr. President, I 

18    believe there's an amendment at the desk.  

19                 I waive the reading of that 

20    amendment and ask that you recognize 

21    Senator Walczyk.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

23    you, Senator Lanza.  

24                 Upon review of the amendment, in 

25    accordance with Rule 6, Section 4B, I rule it 


                                                               5136

 1    nongermane and out of order at this time.

 2                 SENATOR LANZA:   Accordingly, 

 3    Mr. President, I appeal the ruling of the chair 

 4    and ask that Senator Walczyk be heard on that 

 5    appeal.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 7    appeal has been made and recognized, and 

 8    Senator Walczyk may be heard.

 9                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Thank you.  

10                 Mr. President, this amendment is not 

11    only germane, it will solve your concerns about 

12    the price of an I.D. for impoverished New 

13    Yorkers.  In Paragraph F this amendment states 

14    "Any adult citizen whose income qualifies them 

15    for Medicaid as verified in writing by the 

16    county's department of social services shall not 

17    be required to pay any fee for an identification 

18    card."

19                 Great news.  That incorporates 

20    exactly what the bill-in-chief is trying to do.  

21    In fact, speaking of the bill-in-chief, the 

22    sponsor's memo says -- these are his words, not 

23    mine -- identification is a fundamental 

24    necessity.  Official I.D. is a critical tool.  

25                 He also points out, in his sponsor's 


                                                               5137

 1    memo, you can't navigate daily life, obtain 

 2    housing, get medical care, obtain employment, get 

 3    social services, go to the bank or visit a public 

 4    museum or even feel, as the sponsor says, like a 

 5    real New Yorker without identification.

 6                 This amendment requires real 

 7    New Yorkers to bring that fundamentally 

 8    necessary, critical tool to their polling place 

 9    to verify that the person who's voting is indeed 

10    who they say they are.  

11                 And even if you forget your 

12    fundamentally necessary, critical tool, don't 

13    worry, this bill has a solution for you, you real 

14    New Yorkers.  This amendment ensures you can cast 

15    an affidavit ballot so no New Yorker is denied 

16    their right to vote.

17                 The only reason to vote against this 

18    amendment or its germaneness would be if you 

19    think non-New Yorkers and non-real New Yorkers 

20    should be voting in our elections.  

21                 There's a reason that 70 percent of 

22    New Yorkers support this amendment, and so should 

23    you.  Thank you, Mr. President.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

25    you, Senator Walczyk.


                                                               5138

 1                 I want to remind the house that the 

 2    vote is on the procedures of the house and the 

 3    ruling of the chair.  

 4                 This amendment was not Jermaine, 

 5    Tito, Michael, Janet, or any other Jackson.  

 6                 (Laughter.)

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Those in 

 8    favor of overruling the chair please signify by 

 9    saying aye.

10                 (Response of "Aye.")

11                 SENATOR LANZA:   Show of hands.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   A show of 

13    hands has been requested and so ordered.

14                 Announce the results.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 21.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

17    ruling of the chair stands, and the bill-in-chief 

18    is before the house.

19                 Senator Rhoads, why do you rise?  

20                 SENATOR RHOADS:   My leg fell 

21    asleep, Mr. President.  

22                 (Laughter.)

23                 SENATOR RHOADS:   But while I'm 

24    up --

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Somebody 


                                                               5139

 1    get the nurse for Senator Rhoads.

 2                 (Laughter.)

 3                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Well, while I'm 

 4    up, I was hoping that the sponsor might yield for 

 5    a couple of questions.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 7    sponsor yield?

 8                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

 9    Mr. President, I do.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

11    sponsor yields.  

12                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you, 

13    Senator Sepúlveda.  

14                 Through you, Mr. President.  My 

15    understanding is that the purpose of this bill is 

16    to allow homeless individuals to access nondriver 

17    identification.  Is that correct?  

18                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Well, the 

19    purpose -- through you, Mr. President, the 

20    purpose of this bill is to allow people that are 

21    homeless -- they can't access food, they can't 

22    access housing, they can't access traditional 

23    housing because they do not have any form of 

24    identification.  Many of them can't afford it.  

25                 You have about 160,000 homeless 


                                                               5140

 1    people here in New York State.  Not all of them 

 2    are going to apply for this license because some 

 3    of them -- for these I.D.s because some of them 

 4    have them already.  But you're talking at least 

 5    about -- anywhere between 90,000 and 100,000 

 6    people that can use this so they can access food 

 7    and housing and things of that nature.

 8                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Would the sponsor 

 9    continue to yield.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

11    sponsor yield?

12                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

13    Mr. President, I yield.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

15    sponsor yields.  

16                 SENATOR RHOADS:   As of today, 

17    there's no prohibition to homeless individuals 

18    applying for a nondriver's license, correct, 

19    nondriver's I.D.

20                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

21    Mr. President, I don't know of any.  But the cost 

22    is the main issue for people that are homeless.

23                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Okay.  And will 

24    the sponsor continue to yield?  

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 


                                                               5141

 1    sponsor yield? 

 2                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

 3    Mr. President, I do.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 5    sponsor yields.

 6                 SENATOR RHOADS:   My understanding 

 7    is that the current cost would be $13 unless they 

 8    qualify for SSI, and then it would be reduced to 

 9    $6.50.  Is that your understanding?  

10                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

11    Mr. President, yes, that is the cost now.  But 

12    through our bill we will make this free to anyone 

13    who's homeless.

14                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Understood.  And I 

15    appreciate that.  

16                 Will the sponsor continue to yield.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

18    sponsor yield?

19                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

20    Mr. President, I do.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

22    sponsor yields.  

23                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Just so I'm 

24    correct in my understanding, though, I want to 

25    make sure that the bill doesn't change any of the 


                                                               5142

 1    other qualifications to be able to qualify for 

 2    nonvoter I.D. -- for non -- geez, non -- for a 

 3    nondriver's license.

 4                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

 5    Mr. President, I don't think it does.

 6                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Okay.  So in other 

 7    words --

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 9    Rhoads, are you asking the sponsor to yield?  

10                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Will the sponsor 

11    continue to yield.  

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

13    sponsor yield? 

14                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

15    Mr. President, I do.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

17    Senator yields.

18                 SENATOR RHOADS:   So to qualify for 

19    the nondriver I.D. card, the individual would 

20    still have to provide proof of citizenship or 

21    lawful status?  

22                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   No, the -- 

23    through you, Mr. President, the individual has to 

24    establish that they are homeless, especially if 

25    it involves children.


                                                               5143

 1                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Will the sponsor 

 2    continue to yield.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 4    sponsor yield?

 5                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

 6    Mr. President, I do. 

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 8    sponsor yields.

 9                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you for that 

10    answer.  They have to establish that they're 

11    homeless.  

12                 I was going through the other 

13    qualifications for what you would need to be able 

14    to establish your entitlement to a -- to the 

15    nondriver I.D. card.  It doesn't -- 

16                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   -- establish 

17    that they're homeless.

18                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Okay.  Under 

19    current -- will the sponsor continue to yield.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

21    sponsor yield? 

22                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

23    Mr. President, I do.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

25    sponsor yields.


                                                               5144

 1                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Okay.  In addition 

 2    to the individual establishing that they're 

 3    homeless by providing one of the enumerated 

 4    identified proofs of establishing their being 

 5    homeless, my understanding under the bill is that 

 6    they would still have to provide what you would 

 7    normally have to provide for a nondriver I.D.  

 8                 In other words, you have to provide 

 9    proof of citizenship or lawful status.  You do 

10    not have to establish, obviously, proof of 

11    residency.  They merely have to establish the 

12    fact that they're homeless by one of the 

13    enumerated -- 

14                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

15    Mr. President, none of the requirements change.

16                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Okay.  On the 

17    application -- will the sponsor continue to 

18    yield.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

20    sponsor yield?

21                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

22    Mr. President, I do.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

24    sponsor yields.

25                 SENATOR RHOADS:   And I certainly 


                                                               5145

 1    understand and I applaud the purpose of the bill.  

 2    I just had a question with regard to perhaps one 

 3    unintended consequence and how this legislation 

 4    would actually handle it.  

 5                 On the application for the nondriver 

 6    I.D. card, it does have the box for voter 

 7    registration.  Would a form for a nonvoter I.D. 

 8    for a homeless -- for a nondriver I.D. card for a 

 9    homeless individual have that voter registration 

10    box on it as well?

11                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

12    Mr. President, can you repeat the question?  

13                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Sure.  Would the 

14    application for a nondriver I.D. card also 

15    include the voter registration question on the 

16    bottom?  

17                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

18    Mr. President, it will.  There's nothing here 

19    that's going to change the voting requirements 

20    for any homeless person.  So that's not going to 

21    change.

22                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Will the sponsor 

23    continue to yield?

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

25    sponsor yield?


                                                               5146

 1                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

 2    Mr. President, I do.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 4    sponsor yields.

 5                 SENATOR RHOADS:   My only question 

 6    with respect to that is if the individual is not 

 7    identifying an address where's their permanent 

 8    residence, if they register to vote, where would 

 9    they be assigned to vote?  

10                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   If the 

11    person -- I'm sorry.  

12                 SENATOR RHOADS:   So in other words, 

13    if an individual who is homeless and is receiving 

14    an I.D. card without their having a permanent 

15    residence, and they check the box to register to 

16    vote, where would the Board of Elections assign 

17    that individual to actually be able to go and 

18    vote if there's no address?

19                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

20    Mr. President.  As we know, that one of the 

21    requirements for this is that you establish that 

22    you're homeless so that you can get either 

23    transitional housing or whatever housing you're 

24    going to be able to apply for.  

25                 And the homeless person would 


                                                               5147

 1    acquire that either shelter or that home or that 

 2    transitional housing, and through there, they can 

 3    register.

 4                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Will the sponsor 

 5    continue to yield.  

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 7    sponsor yield? 

 8                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

 9    Mr. President, yes.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

11    sponsor yields.  

12                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you for that 

13    answer.  

14                 If I'm correct, then, in my 

15    understanding, whatever their temporary address 

16    is, be it a shelter or whatever temporary 

17    housing, that would be -- so their I.D. would 

18    actually have an address and that would be the 

19    address from which they're registered to vote?

20                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

21    Mr. President, that's the plan.

22                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Okay.  Will the 

23    sponsor continue to yield.  

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

25    sponsor yield?


                                                               5148

 1                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

 2    Mr. President, yes.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 4    sponsor yields.  

 5                 SENATOR RHOADS:   And the nature of 

 6    that housing being transitional, is there 

 7    anything -- any requirement in your bill that 

 8    when they move to other housing that they be 

 9    required to reregister to vote?  

10                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

11    Mr. President.  None of the registration laws or 

12    election laws are going to be changed by this 

13    bill.  If anyone moves into another residency, 

14    then obviously they're required to reregister 

15    from that residency.

16                 SENATOR RHOADS:   And will the 

17    sponsor continue to yield.  

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

19    sponsor yield?

20                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

21    Mr. President, yes. 

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

23    sponsor yields.  

24                 SENATOR RHOADS:   But just so I'm 

25    correct in my understanding, then, the nondriver 


                                                               5149

 1    I.D. card will have an actual address.

 2                 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Through you, 

 3    Mr. President, yes.

 4                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you, 

 5    Senator.  I appreciate it.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

 7    you, Senator Rhoads.  

 8                 Are there any other Senators wishing 

 9    to be heard?

10                 Seeing and hearing none, debate is 

11    closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.

12                 Read the last section.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

14    act shall take effect on the 90th day after it 

15    shall have become a law.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

17    roll.

18                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Announce 

20    the results.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

22    Calendar 1701, voting in the negative are 

23    Senators Borrello, Chan, Gallivan, Helming, 

24    Martins, Oberacker, Ortt, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk, 

25    Weber and Weik.


                                                               5150

 1                 Ayes, 50.  Nays, 12.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

 3    is passed.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 5    1708, Senate Print 7717, by Senator Cooney, an 

 6    act to amend the General Business Law.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 8    Rhoads, good to see you again.  Why do you rise?

 9                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Wonderful to see 

10    you again, Mr. President.  

11                 I just have a few questions to ask 

12    the sponsor, if he would be kind enough to yield.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

14    sponsor yield?

15                 SENATOR COONEY:   I would be happy 

16    to.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

18    sponsor yields.

19                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you, 

20    Mr. President.  Of course through you.  

21                 Senator Cooney, thank you for 

22    yielding to the questions.  We're enjoying a late 

23    night on a Monday night.

24                 SENATOR COONEY:   No place else I'd 

25    rather be.


                                                               5151

 1                 SENATOR RHOADS:   I appreciate that.  

 2    I appreciate that.

 3                 If I can ask, who -- who requested, 

 4    if anyone, this legislation?  

 5                 SENATOR COONEY:   So I have a 

 6    constituent in the greater Rochester area who, 

 7    probably like many of your constituents, 

 8    experienced having to call a tow truck in the 

 9    middle of the winter towing season and was 

10    surprised to find that she unfortunately incurred 

11    over $5,000 in towing fees to go from outer 

12    Monroe County back into her hometown.  And was 

13    alarmed by this, because of course she wasn't 

14    prepared to pay that type of money for towing.  

15                 And so she did raise it to me as an 

16    elected official in her region, and we did a 

17    little investigation and realized that there were 

18    no caps on towing in communities outside of 

19    New York City.  And here we are.  Like good 

20    government, we enter legislation to make sure 

21    that we could fix this for consumers across 

22    New York.

23                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you, 

24    Senator Cooney.  

25                 Will the sponsor continue to yield.


                                                               5152

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 2    sponsor yield?

 3                 SENATOR COONEY:   Yes.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 5    Senator yields.

 6                 SENATOR RHOADS:   That is certainly 

 7    a laudable goal.  In doing so, though, the 

 8    sponsor memo says that it's for consumer 

 9    protection, enacting towing safeguards.  

10                 But many cities, villages and towns 

11    within the State of New York actually do have 

12    those safeguards in place.  Could you please let 

13    me know, did you consult any town supervisors or 

14    village mayors in drafting this legislation?

15                 SENATOR COONEY:   Through you, 

16    Mr. President.  We consulted a number of groups, 

17    including some tow companies and auto 

18    organizations, as well as local government 

19    partners.

20                 What we found, though, Senator, is 

21    that there's an inconsistency.  So this 

22    legislation was modeled in part after the 2019 

23    New York City Council legislation which created 

24    the towing cap standard for the five boroughs for 

25    New York City.  


                                                               5153

 1                 And we thought rather than having 

 2    one consumer experience based on whether you're 

 3    in Jamestown or whether you're in Rochester or 

 4    whether you're in a town or village in 

 5    Nassau County, we wanted it to be consistent so 

 6    that consumers can predict and know what would be 

 7    available to them in terms of towing costs and 

 8    the storage costs for their vehicle.

 9                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Will the sponsor 

10    continue to yield?

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

12    sponsor yield?

13                 SENATOR COONEY:   Yes.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

15    sponsor yields.

16                 SENATOR RHOADS:   So am I correct in 

17    my understanding that this legislation would 

18    override any local laws that there are with 

19    respect to towing and price of towing.

20                 SENATOR COONEY:   Through you, 

21    Mr. President, that's correct.  So this would be 

22    a preemption, if you will, for a statewide 

23    standard, just as much as Kings County cannot set 

24    a different towing rate than Queens County can 

25    set.  So similar in modeling.


                                                               5154

 1                 I will also note that a number of 

 2    states have done this of recent.  I think just 

 3    last year the State of Colorado passed a towing 

 4    cap.  Connecticut has passed a towing cap, as has 

 5    Georgia.  

 6                 Georgia has also preempted a number 

 7    of municipalities in their state, like large 

 8    cities such as Atlanta, similar to our 

 9    legislation here tonight.  This would exempt, of 

10    course, the City of New York, which has their own 

11    separate towing cap standard.

12                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you, 

13    Senator.  

14                 Will the sponsor continue to yield?

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

16    sponsor yield?

17                 SENATOR COONEY:   Yes.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

19    sponsor yields.

20                 SENATOR RHOADS:   And in your 

21    legislation is there any accounting for regional 

22    costs based upon where you are in the state?  

23                 SENATOR COONEY:   Through you, 

24    Mr. President.  There isn't necessarily a 

25    regional cost differentiation.  It's really only 


                                                               5155

 1    by the vehicle weight.  So if it's a passenger 

 2    car that you and I might drive, versus a larger 

 3    Mack truck, that would have a different bearing.  

 4                 But there is not a regional base 

 5    like Finger Lakes region versus Long Island.  

 6    There is something that is noteworthy based on 

 7    where the car breakdown may be.  So it's a higher 

 8    tow rate on an arterial road than it is on a 

 9    street here in the City of Albany.  So that's 

10    really the more differentiated rate route, sure.

11                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Will the sponsor 

12    continue to yield?

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

14    sponsor yield?

15                 SENATOR COONEY:   Yes.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

17    sponsor yields.

18                 SENATOR RHOADS:   And so I'm correct 

19    in my understanding, though, this would apply to 

20    any tow that has to take place anywhere in the 

21    state.  It's not restricted solely to state 

22    parkways or state highways.  

23                 SENATOR COONEY:   Through you, 

24    Mr. President, that's correct.  With the notable 

25    exception that New York City is excluded.


                                                               5156

 1                 SENATOR RHOADS:   And will the 

 2    sponsor continue to yield?

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 4    sponsor yield?

 5                 SENATOR COONEY:   Yes.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 7    Senator yields.

 8                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you, 

 9    Senator Cooney.  

10                 You do acknowledge, however, that 

11    there are different costs of actually operating a 

12    business in different areas of the state?  

13                 So for example, if I own a 

14    commercial piece of property in Nassau County and 

15    I'm paying $35,000 a year in property taxes, a 

16    $12 storage rate for a vehicle certainly does not 

17    stretch as far as it might if you were in the 

18    Finger Lakes region, for example.

19                 SENATOR COONEY:   Through you, 

20    Mr. President, that's a duly noted point.  

21                 I will say again we modeled the 

22    dollar figures you see in the legislation after 

23    the 2019 New York City legislation.  So 

24    recognizing that storage costs would probably be 

25    higher in terms of real estate value in the five 


                                                               5157

 1    boroughs than it would be in Rochester or maybe 

 2    parts of Nassau County, depending on where you 

 3    are located.  We thought we would be inclusive of 

 4    that.

 5                 I would also note that a lot of the 

 6    rates that I mentioned in terms of some of the 

 7    other states that are currently having tow caps 

 8    are consistent with where we are.  Connecticut is 

 9    at $105.  Massachusetts, 108.  Nevada, 55.  

10                 So I think there are some regional 

11    cost differences in those states as well.  So we 

12    did our best to kind of come up with what we 

13    thought would work best for outside of New York 

14    City.

15                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you, 

16    Senator Cooney.  I'll go on the bill now.  Thank 

17    you for the answers to the questions.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

19    Rhoads on the bill.

20                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Again, this is a 

21    concern about the state trying to preempt towns, 

22    villages and cities from making their own 

23    restrictions that work for their locality, and 

24    trying to outthink them in what's best for their 

25    local residents.


                                                               5158

 1                 I certainly understand the notion of 

 2    there being some rules to the road, that in areas 

 3    of the state where there are no restrictions or 

 4    no caps on what people are being charged -- as 

 5    the sponsor gave the example of his constituent 

 6    who was charged $500 for a tow -- having some 

 7    guidelines in place certainly makes sense.

 8                 But again, preempting local control 

 9    and allowing local municipalities to be able to 

10    make decisions that are reflecting the dynamics 

11    of that locality I think is a mistake, and that's 

12    why I'll be voting no.

13                 Thank you, Mr. President.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

15    you, Senator Rhoads.

16                 Senator Martins, why do you rise?

17                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Thank you, 

18    Mr. President.  On the bill.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

20    Martins on the bill.

21                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Aside from the 

22    costs associated with regulating tow trucks, our 

23    local communities also license those tow truck 

24    operators.  

25                 It's an important thing, the same 


                                                               5159

 1    rationale that we have local communities that 

 2    license cabs and local taxis:  It gives the local 

 3    community an opportunity to have a measure of 

 4    control over what could be sometimes predatory 

 5    uses.  

 6                 And so taking away the ability of 

 7    our local communities to actually regulate 

 8    certain industries is counterintuitive.  It's not 

 9    just about the dollars and cents.  It's not just 

10    about whether or not it's a hundred dollars.  

11    It's actually about each local community being 

12    able to decide and to actually license who can or 

13    cannot operate within that community.

14                 And I would ask the sponsor if he 

15    would just allow a few questions.  I know it's 

16    late, but I just need to clarify a couple of 

17    points with regard to that licensing.

18                 Through you, Mr. President, if the 

19    sponsor would yield.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

21    sponsor yield?

22                 SENATOR COONEY:   Yes.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

24    sponsor yields.

25                 SENATOR MARTINS:   So would this 


                                                               5160

 1    bill do anything with regard to requiring a 

 2    statewide list of licensed tow truck operators, 

 3    and would it indicate where they can or cannot 

 4    operate?

 5                 SENATOR COONEY:   The legislation 

 6    does not require such a registry or list to be 

 7    published.  But that might be a natural 

 8    consequence if this was to be passed.

 9                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Through you, 

10    Mr. President, if the sponsor would yield.  

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

12    sponsor yield?

13                 SENATOR COONEY:   Yes.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

15    sponsor yields.  

16                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Would it promote 

17    or require any state agency to promote terms or 

18    conditions or regulations with regard to 

19    operations of tow trucks in and around the state 

20    so as to ensure public safety, consumer 

21    protection?  

22                 Is there any component of this bill 

23    that would address those issues that are normally 

24    and historically addressed by our local 

25    communities, whether they're villages, towns or 


                                                               5161

 1    counties?

 2                 SENATOR COONEY:   Through you, 

 3    Mr. President.  That's a great point, 

 4    Senator Martins.  

 5                 In fact, when we started to do the 

 6    initial research into towing procedures and the 

 7    tow caps that resulted from it, we realized 

 8    there's actually a whole criteria of these safety 

 9    standards, best practices, ethical business 

10    behaviors that are recommended by consumer 

11    groups, whether Consumer Reports or AAA or other 

12    things that actually New York does not follow.  

13                 So that may actually result in 

14    subsequent legislation.  But we thought for the 

15    purposes of addressing the immediate consumer 

16    need, we would start with the price and the price 

17    gouging that we're seeing, and moving to this.  

18                 So open to that conversation in the 

19    future.

20                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Currently -- 

21    through you, Mr. President, if the sponsor would 

22    continue to yield.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

24    sponsor yield?

25                 SENATOR COONEY:   Yes.


                                                               5162

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 2    sponsor yields.

 3                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Currently in many 

 4    parts of the state -- and I would probably think 

 5    most parts of the state -- the local community 

 6    would require tow truck operators to apply.  

 7    There are fees associated because there is a 

 8    governance structure to it.  And there's a 

 9    monitoring to it as well, to ensure local safety 

10    and make sure they're complying with those local 

11    regulations.

12                 Would your bill preempt local 

13    control in a way that would prevent those local 

14    communities from being able to make those 

15    decisions?  Because integral to that is a 

16    decision by the local community to put limits and 

17    identify how much they can charge to actually tow 

18    a car or a truck within the jurisdiction of that 

19    community.  

20                 So it's overall, I believe, for the 

21    benefit of the local community that we trust our 

22    local communities to set regulations with regard 

23    to safety, with regard to who's allowed to 

24    operate within those local communities, and then 

25    to charge a fee for that but also to regulate how 


                                                               5163

 1    much the tow truck operator can charge.  

 2                 That is the norm certainly in the 

 3    areas where we live in Nassau County, I'm 

 4    assuming on Long Island and in other parts of the 

 5    state.  And I'm concerned that this will 

 6    jeopardize that or create confusion.  Do you 

 7    share that concern?

 8                 SENATOR COONEY:   Through you, 

 9    Mr. President.  I think I heard a couple of 

10    questions there.  

11                 I'll just -- to be clear, I answered 

12    Senator Rhoads' question about this earlier in 

13    terms of the preemption.  Yes, Senator Martins, 

14    it does create that preemption standard so that 

15    if a local municipality, if a village or township 

16    in Nassau County had a tow rate, this would then 

17    replace that.  

18                 I understand your point about 

19    wanting to have local control.  Of course we are 

20    a home-rule state.  I understand those concepts, 

21    and I support that, having worked in local 

22    government as well.  

23                 But I will say that what I think 

24    this does is it sets a minimum standard, an 

25    expectation for consumers.  Right?  Is that we 


                                                               5164

 1    recognize that when you were in a vulnerable 

 2    state, having called for a tow track, whether 

 3    from an accident or a weather inclement event, 

 4    that you don't want to feel surprised by the 

 5    outcome.  

 6                 And so whether it's from an 

 7    enforcement side, which is another point you 

 8    brought up, it would be the Attorney General's 

 9    office, right, to enforce good business 

10    behavior -- bless you, Senators.  

11                 And so we wanted to make sure there 

12    was a statewide standard.  So that will be in 

13    place outside of New York City.

14                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Thank you.  

15                 Mr. President, on the bill.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

17    Martins on the bill.

18                 SENATOR MARTINS:   So I appreciate 

19    the effort.  I appreciate what we're trying to do 

20    here.  And I'll just -- I'll try and be brief.  

21                 For now, bad idea.  Local 

22    communities know good actors, bad actors.  They 

23    understand what the local needs are.  They will 

24    listen to applications.  There are disciplinary 

25    proceedings when people break the rules.  And 


                                                               5165

 1    there are consequences locally when people break 

 2    the rules:  They lose their franchise to be able 

 3    to operate in that local community.  

 4                 So New York City's excluded.  Okay.  

 5    But for every other community that has relied on 

 6    the local community, whether it's a village, a 

 7    town, a city, to oversee that, it's for the 

 8    benefit of the consumer and they make sure that 

 9    there aren't bad actors out there.  

10                 If we're waiting on the 

11    Attorney General to make a decision on whether to 

12    prosecute somebody locally, by the time that 

13    happens it loses the ability to actually 

14    function.  

15                 We have a system in place that 

16    works.  Each and every one of us should think 

17    about their local community and who's making 

18    those decisions right now and decide for 

19    yourselves whether or not you think it's a good 

20    idea -- except New York City, whether or not you 

21    think it's a good idea for us to get rid of the 

22    entire structure we have and allow for there to 

23    be no controls, no operations locally, and take 

24    away those responsibilities from our local 

25    communities.  


                                                               5166

 1                 Folks, it just -- it needs to be 

 2    thought out a little bit more carefully.  This 

 3    isn't the right bill that will do that.  

 4    Mr. President, I'll be voting no and I'm 

 5    encouraging everyone to please do the same.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

 7    you, Senator Martins.

 8                 Are there any other Senators wishing 

 9    to be heard?

10                 Seeing and hearing none, debate is 

11    closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.

12                 Read the last section.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

14    act shall take effect immediately.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

16    roll.

17                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

19    Cooney to explain his vote.

20                 SENATOR COONEY:   Thank you, 

21    Mr. President.

22                 Again, the idea behind this 

23    legislation is really about consumer awareness 

24    and consumer protection.  We all have 

25    constituents who have found themselves in a 


                                                               5167

 1    situation where they have to call a tow truck or 

 2    they have their vehicle moved to a storage yard, 

 3    and then that bill comes.  And the bill is 

 4    shockingly high, without reason, and it could 

 5    just really take a bad situation and make it 

 6    worse.

 7                 This is a consumer protection bill 

 8    at heart.  I appreciate the comments of the 

 9    Senators tonight who expressed concern about 

10    local control.  

11                 I wanted to make a point that while 

12    this bill does set a statewide cap for towing 

13    fees outside of New York City, what it does not 

14    do is it does not prohibit a local municipality 

15    from creating a safety standard.  So if there are 

16    standards that the local community -- a village, 

17    a township -- wants to take on, they can still 

18    create those safety standards and hold towers 

19    accountable to those safety standards.  

20                 What they cannot do is set a higher 

21    towing rate than allowed under state law if we 

22    pass this legislation.  I will be supporting the 

23    legislation, and I ask for my colleagues' support 

24    tonight.

25                 Thank you, Mr. President.


                                                               5168

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 2    Cooney to be recorded in the affirmative.

 3                 Announce the results.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 5    Calendar 1708, those Senators voting in the 

 6    negative are Senators Borrello, 

 7    Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Chan, Gallivan, Martins, 

 8    Mattera, Oberacker, Palumbo, Rhoads, Rolison, 

 9    Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk and Senator Weber.

10                 Ayes, 48.  Nays, 14.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

12    is passed.

13                 Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

14    reading of the controversial calendar.

15                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

16    on behalf of Senator Sanders, I move to amend 

17    Senate Bill 6316A by striking out the amendments 

18    made on June 9th and restoring it to its original 

19    print, 6316.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   So 

21    ordered.

22                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   On behalf of 

23    Senator Jackson, I offer the following amendments 

24    to Calendar 1635, Senate Print 6693A, and ask 

25    that said bill retain its place on the Third 


                                                               5169

 1    Reading Calendar.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 3    amendments are received, and the bill will retain 

 4    its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

 5                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Is there any 

 6    further business at the desk?

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   There is 

 8    no further business at the desk.

 9                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   I move to 

10    adjourn until tomorrow, Tuesday, June 10th, at 

11    1:00 p.m.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   On 

13    motion, the Senate stands adjourned until 

14    tomorrow, Tuesday, June 10th, at 1:00 p.m.

15                 (Whereupon, at 10:56 p.m., the 

16    Senate adjourned.)

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25