Regular Session - May 27, 2026
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1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
2
3
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
5
6
7
8
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 May 27, 2026
11 1:56 p.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
15
16
17
18
19
20
21 SENATOR JAMAAL T. BAILEY, Acting President
22 ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary
23
24
25
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 Senate will come to order.
4 I ask everyone present to please
5 rise and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.
6 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited
7 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Guruji
9 Dileepkumar Thankappan, of Staten Island,
10 New York, will deliver today's invocation.
11 GURU DILEEPJI: Honorable
12 President, Senators, and public servants,
13 Namaste. The divine within me bows to the same
14 divine within you.
15 It is a great honor and privilege to
16 offer an invocation at this esteemed Senate of
17 the New York State Legislature. I extend my
18 gratitude to the Honorable President of the
19 Senate for permitting me to chant ancient
20 Vedic prayers.
21 I also wish to express my sincere
22 thanks to Senator Honorable Jessica Spanton for
23 her kind invitation to deliver this invocation
24 today.
25 I will begin with blowing the conch
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1 shell, followed by Vedic prayers in Sanskrit and
2 their contents' English translation.
3 (Blowing conch shell.)
4 (Chanting prayers.)
5 GURU DILEEPJI: Om! I connect with
6 the Earth's energy and the divine light of the
7 Sun. May this light awaken our spiritual
8 awareness.
9 We thank Tryambaka for prosperity.
10 Like a cucumber grows away from its stem, I claim
11 my freedom from death.
12 May everyone have well-being, peace,
13 and good fortune.
14 May all be happy, healthy, and may
15 no one suffer.
16 Lead me from untruth to truth, from
17 darkness to light, and from death to immortality.
18 The infinite universe comes from the
19 infinite.
20 Om! May everyone be happy.
21 In closing, O Lord of the Universe,
22 guide our New York State Senators and honorable
23 public servants. Grant them wisdom and
24 compassion of all New Yorkers.
25 Help us remember that we all deserve
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1 respect and dignity regardless of our
2 backgrounds. May we listen and learn from one
3 another to promote understanding and
4 collaborations.
5 Begin the day with love, spend the
6 day with love, fill the day with love, and end
7 the day with love. This is the way how we
8 connect with the divine essence of the universe.
9 May we always be blessed by the
10 divine. In unison we affirm: Love all, serve
11 all.
12 Thank you, and Namaste.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Reading
14 of the Journal.
15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, Tuesday,
16 May 26, 2026, the Senate met pursuant to
17 adjournment. The Journal of Monday, May 25,
18 2026, was read and approved. On motion, the
19 Senate adjourned.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Without
21 objection, the Journal stands approved as read.
22 Presentation of petitions.
23 Messages from the Assembly.
24 Messages from the Governor.
25 Reports of standing committees.
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1 Reports of select committees.
2 Communications and reports from
3 state officers.
4 Motions and resolutions.
5 Senator Gianaris.
6 SENATOR GIANARIS: Good afternoon,
7 Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Good
9 afternoon.
10 SENATOR GIANARIS: On behalf of
11 Senator May, I wish to call up Senate Print
12 5598A, recalled from the Assembly, which is now
13 at the desk.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
15 Secretary will read.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 543, Senate Print 5598A, by Senator May, an act
18 to amend the General Business Law.
19 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to
20 reconsider the vote by which the bill was passed.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
22 roll on reconsideration.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 59.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
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1 is restored to its place on the Third Reading
2 Calendar.
3 SENATOR GIANARIS: I offer the
4 following amendments.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
6 amendments are received.
7 SENATOR GIANARIS: Amendments are
8 also offered to the following Third Reading
9 Calendar bills:
10 By Senator Skoufis, page 40,
11 Calendar 1074, Senate Print 9317;
12 By Senator Kavanagh, page 63,
13 Calendar 1299, Senate Print 9737;
14 By Senator Kavanagh, page 64,
15 Calendar 1311, Senate Print 10168;
16 By Senator Krueger, page 52,
17 Calendar 1199, Senate Print 1477;
18 By Senator May, page 25,
19 Calendar 835, Senate Print 8623A;
20 And by Senator Martinez, page 57,
21 Calendar 766, Senate Print 9502.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
23 amendments on those bills are received, and they
24 will retain their places on the Third Reading
25 Calendar.
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1 Senator Gianaris.
2 SENATOR GIANARIS: At this time,
3 Mr. President, we're going to simultaneously call
4 a meeting of the Finance Committee in Room 332
5 and move on to some resolutions.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There
7 will be an immediate meeting of the
8 Finance Committee in Room 332. We will call up
9 resolutions as well.
10 Senator Gianaris.
11 SENATOR GIANARIS: I now move to
12 adopt the Resolution Calendar, with the exception
13 of Resolutions 2106 and 2143.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: All those
15 in favor of adopting the Resolution Calendar,
16 with the exception of resolutions 2106 and 2143,
17 please signify by saying aye.
18 (Response of "Aye.")
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
20 nay.
21 (No response.)
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
23 Resolution Calendar is adopted.
24 Senator Gianaris.
25 SENATOR GIANARIS: Let's start with
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1 Resolution 2106, by Senator Brisport, read that
2 resolution's title and call on Senator Brisport.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 Secretary will read.
5 THE SECRETARY: Resolution 2106, by
6 Senator Brisport, recognizing Second Chance Month
7 in the State of New York and recognizing the
8 profound mental health impacts of incarceration
9 on individuals, families, and communities.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
11 Brisport on the resolution.
12 SENATOR BRISPORT: Thank you,
13 Mr. President.
14 I rise today to introduce a
15 resolution formally recognizing the month of
16 April as Second Chance Month in the State of
17 New York.
18 Second Chance Month brings critical
19 awareness to the immense mental health barriers
20 formerly incarcerated individuals face during
21 reentry.
22 Incarceration inflicts severe,
23 lasting psychological trauma. Prolonged
24 isolation, violence and family separation do not
25 rehabilitate, they tear at the mental stability
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1 of individuals and create ripples of trauma that
2 impact families and entire communities. When
3 people return home, they face systemic gaps in
4 care and deep-seated stigma.
5 If we truly want to reduce
6 recidivism and advance public health, New York
7 State must take responsibility for these mental
8 health consequences.
9 Of course, we cannot address this
10 systemic trauma without honoring those who turn
11 their lived experience into a lifeline for
12 others. Joining us in the gallery today is an
13 extraordinary leader, Shawanna Vaughn.
14 Shawanna's life is a testament to
15 reliance. Born in a California prison hospital
16 to an incarcerated mother, she experienced the
17 foster-care system and youth incarceration. She
18 survived cancer, and she suffered the devastating
19 loss of her brother to gang violence. Yet she
20 refused to let systemic trauma have the final
21 word.
22 Instead, she chose a path of radical
23 transformation. Perhaps one of the most powerful
24 chapters of Shawanna's story is that she was able
25 to forgive her brother's murderer. As she has
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1 beautifully said, "Redemption is for everyone.
2 It was important for me to forgive so that I
3 could continue my own healing."
4 That is true. That is the true
5 beating heart of what a second chance means. A
6 second chance is not just an administrative box
7 to check; it is the profound human capacity for
8 redemption and healing.
9 Shawanna took that philosophy and
10 founded Silent Cry, Inc., a New York-based
11 nonprofit dedicated to taking a holistic approach
12 to aftercare from mass incarceration, gun
13 violence and trauma.
14 Silent Cry provides essential grief
15 counseling, trauma-informed resources, and
16 support for families navigating the aftermath of
17 the justice system.
18 By adopting this resolution today,
19 this legislative body pauses to recognize the
20 deep mental health trauma associated with
21 incarceration. We call for the awareness and
22 research necessary to address these harms so
23 New York can truly embody the spirit of a second
24 chance.
25 Thank you, Mr. President. I extend
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1 my deepest gratitude to Shawanna Vaughn and
2 Silent Cry for their life-saving advocacy, and I
3 yield the floor.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
5 you, Senator Brisport.
6 To Ms. Vaughn, we thank you for your
7 resilience for your strength. We welcome you on
8 behalf of the Senate and extend to you all of the
9 privileges and courtesies of this house.
10 Please rise and be recognized.
11 (Standing ovation.)
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
13 question is on the resolution. All in favor
14 signify by saying aye.
15 (Response of "Aye.")
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
17 nay.
18 (Response of "Nay.")
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
20 resolution is adopted.
21 Senator Gianaris.
22 SENATOR GIANARIS: At this time
23 please call on Senator Tedisco for an
24 introduction.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
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1 Tedisco for the purposes of an introduction.
2 SENATOR TEDISCO: Thank you,
3 Mr. President.
4 Mr. President and my colleagues, I'm
5 proud and honored today to present you with an
6 introduction of some outstanding individuals who
7 have joined us in the Senate chambers. They're
8 up in the balcony up there.
9 We are joined by Arthur "Artie"
10 Hunsinger, a highly decorated, long-serving
11 volunteer firefighter and former chief of the
12 Clifton Park Volunteer Fire Department, which
13 serves both the town of Clifton Park and the Town
14 of Halfmoon in the 44th Senate District.
15 Artie's dedication to public safety
16 for over 45 years is certainly laudable, but
17 today he joins us in a different capacity. Art
18 Hunsinger serves as a Miss New York Volunteer
19 State Director, and he is accompanied by
20 Miss New York Volunteer, Shannon Kelly, and
21 Miss New York Teen Volunteer, Eliza Leszczynski.
22 Eliza's mom is with her, and also Elliot Ismail
23 is also with them.
24 Shannon is the founder and president
25 of the Self Care Promise Company, a 501(c)(3)
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1 which provides education about the mental health
2 aspects of practicing self-care and helps make
3 self-care accessible to everyone through
4 donations.
5 She is an American College Theatre
6 Festival nominee, has been employed by New Circle
7 Theatre Company, the Actor's Studio, Museum of
8 Modern Art, Nightmare Vermont. She's also been a
9 Walt Disney World cast member and aspires to be
10 an actor and director. She probably knows
11 Mickey Mouse and all those -- Pluto, all those
12 other guys over there. Fantastic.
13 Eliza is a constituent of my
14 colleague Senator Fahy and a student at
15 Schalmont High School. She is a six-time
16 Presidential Volunteer Service Award Gold
17 recipient, a recipient of the Lions Club
18 Community Service Recognition Award; a
19 National Honor Society member, a Science,
20 English and Spanish Honor Society member, along
21 with being a class president and a cheer captain.
22 Her dream is to major in pre-dental
23 biology, and she ultimately aspires to be a
24 pediatric dentist.
25 Mr. President, I would ask you to
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1 welcome them, offer them all the cordialities of
2 this august body. We're very proud of all of
3 them being here today and all their
4 accomplishments.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
6 you, Senator Tedisco.
7 To Mr. Hunsinger and all of the
8 volunteers from Miss New York and the surrounding
9 Capital Region, we thank you for all of the
10 advocacy and great things you do for our
11 community.
12 I welcome you on behalf of the
13 Senate and extend to you all the privileges and
14 courtesies of this house.
15 Please rise and be recognized.
16 (Standing ovation.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
18 Gianaris.
19 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
20 let's move on to previously adopted
21 Resolution 1492, by Senator Sepúlveda. Let's
22 read that resolution's title and call on
23 Senator Sepúlveda.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 Secretary will read.
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1 THE SECRETARY: Resolution 1492, by
2 Senator Sepúlveda, memorializing Governor Kathy
3 Hochul to proclaim May 27, 2026, as
4 Taiwan Heritage Day in the State of New York.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
6 Sepúlveda on the resolution.
7 SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA: Thank you,
8 Mr. President, for allowing me to speak on this
9 resolution.
10 To our distinguished leaders of the
11 Taiwanese community, fellow legislators, honored
12 guests, and our dear friends, it's a privilege to
13 join you today in Albany to celebrate
14 Taiwanese Heritage Day and recognize the
15 tremendous contributions the Taiwanese community
16 has made to the cultural, economic, and civic
17 life of New York State.
18 The Taiwanese community embodies the
19 values that define New York: Hard work,
20 innovation, perseverance, and a strong commitment
21 to education and public service.
22 Across our state, Taiwanese
23 Americans have strengthened our neighborhoods
24 through business, technology, the arts, and
25 community leadership, enriching the diversity and
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1 vitality of New York State.
2 Taiwan itself stands as a model of
3 resilience and democratic values, and those same
4 principles are reflected in the Taiwanese
5 community here in New York through civic
6 engagement, unity, and service to others.
7 Today's celebration reminds us of
8 the importance of honoring and supporting the
9 communities that help shape our state.
10 From my position as a New York State
11 Senator, I reaffirm my commitment to recognizing
12 and promoting the cultural heritage of all
13 communities that make our state and our country a
14 mosaic of stories, voices, and hopes.
15 As we commemorate Taiwan Heritage
16 Day, I'm proud to recognize Ambassador Tom
17 Chih-Chiang Lee, who's the director-general of
18 the Taipei Economic and Cultural Office in
19 New York, known as TECO.
20 Mr. Eric Ng, president of the
21 Chinese Consolidated Benevolent Association of
22 New York.
23 Mr. Chun-Hwai Su -- also known as
24 Tom -- and Mr. Jen Ching Wang, the president and
25 vice president of the Taiwan Center of New York.
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1 Mr. Wei-Ren Huang, political
2 division director of the TECO.
3 Mr. Jie Fan Hsieh, political officer
4 of TECO.
5 Ms. Peggy Huang, director of the
6 Culture Center of TECO.
7 And Ms. Sylvia Tsai, secretary
8 general of the Taiwanese Chamber of Commerce of
9 New York, and Mrs. Mei Tien, board member of the
10 Chinese Chamber of Commerce of New York.
11 Thank you all for being here today.
12 Thank you for being here today and celebrating
13 Heritage Day with us.
14 Happy Taiwanese Heritage Day.
15 Thank you, Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
17 you, Senator Sepúlveda.
18 Senator Stavisky on the resolution.
19 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you,
20 Mr. President.
21 Thank you to Senator Sepúlveda for
22 organizing this annual trip to Albany.
23 And thank you to your predecessor,
24 Senator Sepúlveda, who originally established a
25 special relationship -- even though they may not
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1 live in the Bronx, nevertheless Senator Díaz was
2 certainly responsible for starting this exchange.
3 I am proud to represent so many
4 people from Taiwan. I previously represented
5 Flushing, which had a major, major effect on the
6 City of New York. The fact that people from
7 Taiwan came to Queens County in the late 1970s,
8 early 1980s, and established such a remarkable
9 presence, both helping the economy but also the
10 cultural areas of our city.
11 They are an important part of our
12 city. They make amazing contributions. I'm
13 proud to say they are my friends. And in fact I
14 notice that the group from the Taiwan Center,
15 among other groups, was here. My district office
16 was literally around the corner from the
17 Taiwan Center.
18 So I thank them for coming. And I
19 certainly want to make sure that everybody here
20 understands the remarkable work that people from
21 Taiwan have accomplished.
22 Particularly I know how proud they
23 are of their State Senator, John Liu, and I know
24 that they sense the same pride we have in
25 accomplishments.
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1 And to Senator Liu, we thank you for
2 what you have done -- such a wonderful
3 representative of the City of New York.
4 Thank you, Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
6 you, Senator Stavisky.
7 Senator Liu on the resolution.
8 SENATOR LIU: Thank you,
9 Mr. President -- (mic off; inaudible).
10 But I am proud to become an
11 American, and I want to thank Senator Sepúlveda
12 for carrying this for 14 years -- he's been doing
13 this 14 years, the last eight being while I was a
14 State Senator -- and really always greeting our
15 delegation of Taiwan American leaders.
16 As has been said already, the
17 Taiwanese American community is very proud. We
18 are very resourceful, bringing a lot of
19 contributions to the State of New York, not the
20 least of which is one of the biggest economic
21 development projects that is happening in the
22 State of New York, where there's a huge
23 investment from Taiwan coming into
24 Central New York as part of the semiconductor and
25 AI initiatives.
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1 But, you know, I think a lot's been
2 said. You know, what's probably not been said --
3 I was in the Finance Committee -- is that
4 Taiwan faces a great deal of challenge and
5 outright peril in these times.
6 And so I do want to recognize that
7 and ask my colleagues to, you know, stand with
8 the people of Taiwan. Because it's a rough time
9 all around the world, and certainly in the
10 Strait of Taiwan.
11 And with that, I want to take this
12 opportunity to say that every year we've been
13 joined by an incredible community leader when
14 they come up to the State Capitol to advocate for
15 the Taiwanese community. This year she did not
16 come because unfortunately we lost her at the
17 beginning of this year.
18 Patsy Fang Chen was an incredible
19 leader in the community. We lost her too early.
20 But her memory lives on, and her legacy will
21 continue to carry us through.
22 Thank you, Mr. President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
24 you, Senator Liu.
25 We did have guests that left
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1 earlier; we wanted to thank them for their work
2 and commitment to fostering the relationship
3 between Taiwan and the USA.
4 And may her memory be a blessing.
5 The resolution was adopted on
6 January 28th.
7 Senator Gianaris.
8 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
9 the sponsors of today's resolutions would like to
10 open them for cosponsorship.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 resolutions are open for cosponsorship. Should
13 you choose not to be a cosponsor, please notify
14 the desk.
15 Senator Gianaris.
16 SENATOR GIANARIS: There's a report
17 of the Finance Committee at the desk. Let's take
18 that up, please.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
20 Secretary will read.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Krueger,
22 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
23 following bills:
24 Senate Print 9003D, an act making
25 appropriations for the support of government (Aid
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1 to Localities Budget);
2 Senate Print 9004D, an act making
3 appropriations for the support of government
4 (Capital Projects Budget);
5 Senate Print 9007C, enacts into law
6 major components of legislation necessary to
7 implement the State Health and Mental Hygiene
8 Budget for the 2026-2027 fiscal year;
9 Senate Print 9009C, enacts into law
10 major components of legislation which are
11 necessary to implement the state fiscal plan for
12 the 2026-2027 state fiscal year.
13 All bills reported direct to third
14 reading.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: All those
16 in favor of accepting the report of the
17 Finance Committee please signify by --
18 SENATOR GIANARIS: I move to accept
19 the report of the Finance Committee.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: I got
21 ahead of myself, as always, Senator Gianaris.
22 But I will now ask again. All those
23 in favor of accepting the report of the
24 Finance Committee, please signify by saying aye.
25 (Response of "Aye.")
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
2 nay.
3 (No response.)
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5 report of the Finance Committee is accepted.
6 Senator Gianaris.
7 SENATOR GIANARIS: Please take up
8 the supplemental calendar.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
10 Secretary will read.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 1331, Senate Print 9003D, Budget Bill, an act
13 making appropriations for the support of
14 government.
15 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there a
16 message of necessity at the desk?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
18 a message of necessity at the desk.
19 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
20 the message.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: All those
22 in favor of accepting the message please signify
23 by saying aye.
24 (Response of "Aye.")
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
5469
1 nay.
2 (Response of "Nay.")
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 message is accepted, and the bill is before the
5 house.
6 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
8 is laid aside.
9 The Secretary will read.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 1332, Senate Print 90004D, Budget Bill, an act
12 making appropriations for the support of
13 government.
14 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there a
15 message of necessity at the desk?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
17 a message of necessity at the desk.
18 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
19 the message of necessity.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: All those
21 in favor of accepting the message please signify
22 by saying aye.
23 (Response of "Aye.")
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
25 nay.
5470
1 (Response of "Nay.")
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 message is accepted, and the bill is before the
4 house.
5 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
7 is laid aside.
8 There is a substitution at the desk.
9 The Secretary will read.
10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Krueger
11 moves to discharge, from the Committee on
12 Finance, Assembly Bill Number 10007C and
13 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
14 Number 9007C, Third Reading Calendar 1333.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
16 substitution is so ordered.
17 The Secretary will read.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 1333, Assembly Bill Number 10007C, Budget Bill,
20 an act to amend Part H of Chapter 59 of the Laws
21 of 2011.
22 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there a
23 message of necessity at the desk?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
25 a message of necessity at the desk.
5471
1 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
2 the message.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: All those
4 in favor of accepting the message please signify
5 by saying aye.
6 (Response of "Aye.")
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
8 nay.
9 (Response of "Nay.")
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
11 message is accepted, and the bill is before the
12 house.
13 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
15 is laid aside.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 1334, Senate Print 9009C, Budget Bill, an act to
18 amend the Tax Law.
19 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there a
20 message of necessity at the desk?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
22 a message of necessity at the desk.
23 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
24 the message.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: All those
5472
1 in favor of accepting the message please signify
2 by saying aye.
3 (Response of "Aye.")
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
5 nay.
6 (Response of "Nay.")
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
8 message is accepted, and the bill is before the
9 house.
10 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
12 is laid aside.
13 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
14 reading of the supplemental calendar.
15 SENATOR GIANARIS: Let's get to the
16 controversial calendar, please.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
18 Secretary will ring the bell.
19 The Secretary will read.
20 SENATOR GIANARIS: Calendar Number
21 1334, please, Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Calendar
23 Number 1334.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 1334, Senate Print 9009C, Budget Bill, an act to
5473
1 amend the Tax Law.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
3 Lanza, why do you rise?
4 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, I
5 believe there's an amendment at the desk. I
6 waive the reading of that amendment and ask that
7 you recognize Senator Rhoads.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
9 you, Senator Lanza.
10 In accordance with Rule 6,
11 Section 4B, I rule that nongermane and out of
12 order at this time.
13 SENATOR LANZA: Accordingly,
14 Mr. President, I appeal the ruling of the chair
15 and ask that Senator Rhoads be heard on that
16 appeal.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
18 appeal has been made and recognized, and
19 Senator Rhoads may be heard.
20 Senator Rhoads.
21 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
22 Mr. President.
23 We believe that this bill is germane
24 to the issue at hand, as the issue at hand is the
25 revenue for the State of New York, part of which
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1 has been termed in Part FF as the "Protecting Our
2 Wallets."
3 In that spirit, I am offering the
4 following amendment, which is contained in
5 Bill S9110, which would provide the largest
6 personal income tax cut in the history of the
7 State of New York.
8 New York is the highest-taxed state
9 in the country. We are number one in tax
10 unaffordability. We have the fourth-highest cost
11 of living among all 50 states. And that is what
12 is driving people leaving the State of New York
13 to the tune of a million people in just the last
14 six years since 2020. And that trend continues.
15 And while the Majority has offered
16 in this particular legislation crumbs to try and
17 actually mollify the fleeing of people in the
18 State of New York to other states like Texas and
19 Florida and North Carolina that have dramatically
20 lower tax burdens, S9110 offers the opportunity
21 to provide real and sustainable annual relief to
22 the taxpayers of the State of New York.
23 Over a 10-year phase-in, this bill
24 would actually lower -- exempt the first $50,000
25 of income for single filers from New York State
5475
1 income taxes. For single head of households, it
2 would exempt the first $75,000 of income. For
3 families, it would exempt the first $100,000 in
4 income.
5 And given that the median family
6 income in the State of New York is $87,000, that
7 means for the average New York State family -- if
8 this were adopted, the average family in the
9 State of New York would pay zero state personal
10 income tax.
11 That equates not to a $150 utility
12 rebate making up for the extraordinary charges
13 that the state puts on every utility bill -- this
14 is talking about $5,000, on average, per family
15 per year that you have a chance to put into the
16 pockets of every New York State family by simply
17 not taking it out of their pockets in the first
18 place.
19 I can think, when we are talking
20 about affordability, of nothing more germane,
21 Mr. President, than talking about putting money
22 into the pockets -- real, sustainable money that
23 will help sustain families in the State of
24 New York and will help mollify the increased
25 costs of living that we continue to impose upon
5476
1 them through the policies that come out of this
2 chamber.
3 So I would encourage the members of
4 this body to vote to overrule the ruling of the
5 chair and incorporate this amendment into the
6 bill-in-chief.
7 Thank you, Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
9 you, Senator Rhoads.
10 I want to remind the house that this
11 vote is on the procedures of the house and the
12 ruling of the chair. Those in favor of
13 overruling the chair, signify by saying aye.
14 (Response of "Aye.")
15 SENATOR LANZA: Show of hands.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: A show of
17 hands has been requested and so ordered.
18 Announce the results.
19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 22.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
21 ruling of the chair stands, and the bill-in-chief
22 is before the house.
23 Read the last section.
24 Sorry, my understanding is that
25 there will be debate on this bill.
5477
1 Senator Rhoads, why do you rise?
2 SENATOR RHOADS: I was hoping that
3 the sponsor might yield to a few questions with
4 respect to Part FF.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
6 Gianaris?
7 SENATOR GIANARIS: Yes. For the
8 most part, these parts will be defended by
9 Senator Gounardes. So let's just assume that,
10 and if it's anyone else I will stand up and
11 redirect that way.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
13 Gounardes, do you yield?
14 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
16 Senator yields, Senator Rhoads.
17 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
18 Senator Goud -- Senator Gounardes. There's going
19 to be so much speaking today, I've got to get the
20 mouth moving.
21 Senator Gounardes -- through you,
22 Mr. President -- Part FF is termed the Protecting
23 Our Wallets Energy Rebate. And my understanding
24 is this would provide a one-time $150 rebate to
25 taxpayers with incomes between $150,000 and
5478
1 $300,000, and would provide a rebate to single,
2 married filing a separate return, or heads of
3 household with income up to $150,000, of $100.
4 Is that correct?
5 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
6 Mr. President, that is correct. (Pause.)
7 Through you, Mr. President, if you
8 are a married couple filing jointly, with income
9 up to $150,000, you can get up to $200 in the
10 POWER rebate.
11 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you for that
12 correction.
13 Will the sponsor continue to yield?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
15 sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR RHOADS: So I'm correct in
20 my understanding that the ultimate rebate that
21 would be offered, the maximum rebate that would
22 be offered is a $200 rebate, correct?
23 SENATOR GIANARIS: Through you,
24 Mr. President, that is correct.
25 SENATOR RHOADS: And will the
5479
1 sponsor continue to yield?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
3 sponsor yield?
4 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR RHOADS: And this isn't a
8 monthly rebate -- through you, Mr. President,
9 this isn't a monthly rebate, this is a one-time
10 rebate check that would be received by
11 ratepayers?
12 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
13 Mr. President, that is correct. This is a
14 one-time rebate check.
15 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
16 continue to yield?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
18 sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I certainly do.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR RHOADS: IPPNY has recently
23 put out a study indicating that over 70 percent
24 of ratepayers' utility bills are actually not
25 related to the production of energy but are the
5480
1 result of taxes, fees, surcharges and mandates
2 that are imposed upon ratepayers by the State of
3 New York.
4 Are you familiar with that study?
5 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
6 Mr. President, I have not read that study.
7 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
8 continue to yield?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR RHOADS: Through you,
15 Mr. President. What is a merchant function
16 charge, or MCF charge?
17 (Pause.)
18 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
19 Mr. President. While we wait for staff to come,
20 I'm not familiar with that particular definition.
21 I do want to note, however, in
22 response to the last question that was asked,
23 that the largest of those taxes that is imposed
24 on utility bills is often property taxes, which
25 is done at the control of local governments.
5481
1 But we'll wait to get staff here to
2 assist with the Senator's additional questions.
3 SENATOR RHOADS: And in the
4 meantime, will the sponsor yield to another
5 question.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
7 sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I will.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR RHOADS: What is a delivery
12 adjustment?
13 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Repeat the
14 question, sir?
15 SENATOR RHOADS: What is a delivery
16 adjustment?
17 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Delivery
18 adjustment.
19 Through you, Mr. President. While
20 we're waiting for staff -- we want to make sure
21 we get the right answers for the Senator to make
22 sure he understands his utility bills -- I just
23 want to note that nothing in this POWER rebate
24 relates to utility bill charges.
25 This is a one-time rebate given to
5482
1 all qualifying taxpayers in the State of New York
2 regardless of what the individualized charges on
3 their particular utility bills may be.
4 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you for that
5 explanation, Senator Gounardes. And I guess
6 we'll wait for the answer on that other one.
7 In the meantime, will you yield to
8 another question?
9 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I will.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
11 sponsor yield? The sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR RHOADS: What is a -- what
13 is a legacy transmission charge?
14 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
15 Mr. President, my previous answer to that
16 question still stands.
17 We're waiting for staff to come with
18 more precise definitions so that the Senator can
19 understand his utility bill. But I'm happy to
20 take other questions in the interim.
21 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
22 continue to yield?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
24 sponsor yield?
25 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
5483
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
2 sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR RHOADS: What's a GRT tax
4 surcharge?
5 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
6 Mr. President, my previous answer still stands.
7 While we wait for answers from staff
8 for the Senator's questions so that he can
9 understand his bill, as well as the nearly
10 600,000 taxpayers in his home county who will
11 benefit from this rebate check, I'm happy to take
12 an additional question.
13 SENATOR RHOADS: I'm assuming that
14 means the sponsor will yield?
15 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I will.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: If you're
17 asking the sponsor to yield, I can ask: Will the
18 sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I'll yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR RHOADS: How about the
23 temporary New York State surcharge?
24 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Mr. President,
25 we're still waiting for staff to arrive with all
5484
1 those answers to those questions, so I'll defer
2 if the Senator wants to continue asking other
3 questions.
4 SENATOR RHOADS: And will the
5 sponsor continue to yield?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
7 sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR RHOADS: In the case of
12 National Grid, any idea what a National Grid ESRM
13 hedging charge is?
14 (Pause.)
15 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
16 Mr. President. It's my understanding, after
17 conferring with staff, that all of these charges
18 that the Senator is asking about are all various
19 assessments that are used to fund a number of the
20 energy efficiency and energy affordability
21 programs that the state offers or that we
22 authorize and that our state agencies administer
23 for different varying purposes.
24 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
25 continue to yield?
5485
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR RHOADS: Would that be the
7 same for SBC and RPS surcharges, for RDM
8 surcharges, for incremental state assessments as
9 well as for sales taxes that New York State
10 imposes on utility bills?
11 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
12 Mr. President. A number of these fees and
13 charges that the Senator is referring to, some
14 are related to affordability and efficiency
15 programs. Others relate to the cost of energy
16 themselves for the companies as they are
17 purchasing energy to deliver.
18 But again, I'll remind my colleague
19 from across the aisle that the utility rebate
20 checks that are included in this budget have no
21 bearing on the individual bills or fees or
22 surcharges that are attached to utility bills.
23 The POWER rebate check will be given
24 to eligible taxpayers, because everyone is paying
25 for higher energy costs, whether it's through a
5486
1 utility or whether it's through the gas pump or
2 other forms of energy costs. And so this program
3 and this rebate program applies to taxpayers in
4 the State of New York, not specifically exclusive
5 to utility payers.
6 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
7 continue to yield?
8 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR RHOADS: IPPNY indicated
12 that the average New York household will pay
13 approximately $5,000 a year in utility charges,
14 70 percent of which, according to their findings,
15 relate directly to fees, surcharges, mandates,
16 and taxes that are placed on their utility bill
17 by the State of New York with the authority of
18 this Legislature or by the Public Service
19 Commission.
20 When we're talking about $5,000 in
21 bills, why are we only talking about a 150 --
22 $100, $150 or $200 rebate going back to taxpayers
23 if we're really concerned about the affordability
24 of utility rates in the State of New York?
25 (Pause.)
5487
1 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
2 Mr. President. As I answered to my colleague
3 previously, one of the largest drivers of those
4 costs are local property taxes, which of
5 course as my colleague knows is not set by this
6 Legislature but is set by local municipalities.
7 And so the biggest costs that you're
8 referring to oftentimes are driven by local
9 governments, the taxes they assess on the power
10 companies.
11 But again, we are trying to provide
12 some measure of relief to taxpayers who are
13 bearing the brunt of high energy costs across the
14 board, whether it is from their gas bill, their
15 electric bill, their bill at the pump or whatever
16 their energy needs may be. The purpose of this
17 program and of this rebate check is to help
18 provide some measure of relief to New York State
19 residents, including 578,410 households in the
20 County of Nassau.
21 SENATOR RHOADS: And will the
22 sponsor continue to yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
24 sponsor yield?
25 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I yield.
5488
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
2 Senator yields.
3 SENATOR RHOADS: And can ratepayers
4 expect this to be in the form of a check or a
5 credit on their bill?
6 SENATOR GIANARIS: Through you,
7 Mr. President, just to correct my colleague, this
8 is not about ratepayers. As I said previously,
9 it's about taxpayers.
10 So this check will be sent to
11 taxpayers in the State of New York. It's not
12 tied to someone's individual status as a
13 ratepayer.
14 And yes, it will be in the form of a
15 check.
16 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
17 continue to yield?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
19 sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR RHOADS: And through you,
24 Mr. President.
25 So if I'm correct in my
5489
1 understanding, every taxpayer will receive some
2 level of rebate as long as they make less than
3 $300,000 per year, even if they don't pay utility
4 bills.
5 (Pause.)
6 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Mr. President,
7 through you. We estimate that this proposal will
8 reach nearly 8.2 million taxpayers in the State
9 of New York, the income threshold for eligibility
10 depending on your filing status -- single,
11 married, jointly, et cetera.
12 But 8.28 million taxpayers will
13 benefit from this POWER rebate program.
14 SENATOR RHOADS: And will the
15 sponsor continue to yield.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
17 sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I will.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
20 sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR RHOADS: So this Protecting
22 Your Wallet Energy Rebate then will go regardless
23 of whether anyone actually pays a utility bill.
24 So it will go to 8.2 million people when there
25 are only five hundred -- you said there were how
5490
1 many, 587,000 households within the county,
2 right? They would go to every county resident --
3 every county taxpayer?
4 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
5 Mr. President. If they meet the income
6 eligibility, yes.
7 SENATOR RHOADS: And will the
8 sponsor yield to one final question on this part.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I'll yield for
12 one final question on this part.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR RHOADS: When can taxpayers
16 expect to receive these checks?
17 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
18 Mr. President. Our understanding is that these
19 checks will be sent out sometime in the fall,
20 September through October or November. Just like
21 the rebate checks we did in previous budgets
22 were.
23 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
24 Senator Gounardes.
25 Briefly on the bill.
5491
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
2 Rhoads on the bill.
3 SENATOR RHOADS: Mr. President, you
4 know, I certainly appreciate the fact that we're
5 talking about a $100, $150 or $200 rebate.
6 But the purpose for these questions
7 was to draw attention to the fact that out of an
8 average $5,000 utility bill over the course of a
9 year, the ratepayer is going to wind up having to
10 pay -- 70 percent of that bill are taxes, are
11 fees, are surcharges, are mandates that are
12 imposed by government on ratepayers.
13 If we were truly interested in
14 lowering the cost of utility bills, we wouldn't
15 be offering crumbs. We would be offering real,
16 sustainable relief by withdrawing the taxes,
17 fees, surcharges and mandates that we're placing
18 on utilities and placing on ratepayers who
19 ultimately pay these utility bills, and actually
20 provide real and sustainable relief.
21 That is, sadly, not what we are
22 doing.
23 And I just wanted to ask a few
24 questions on Parts E, F and G.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
5492
1 Gianaris, Parts E, F and G are still
2 Senator Gounardes.
3 Senator Gounardes, do you yield?
4 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I'm ba-ack.
5 Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 (Laughter.)
9 SENATOR RHOADS: Senator
10 Gounardes -- I'm sorry, will the sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Yes, I will.
12 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you. I
13 almost forgot.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR RHOADS: It is my
17 understanding that since Governor Hochul has
18 taken office, New York has lost 892 companies
19 representing about $47 billion in income,
20 according to IRS migration data.
21 Are you familiar with those
22 statistics?
23 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
24 Mr. President, I am not.
25 SENATOR RHOADS: And will the
5493
1 sponsor continue to yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
3 sponsor yield?
4 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you.
8 It is also my understanding that one
9 of the primary reasons why companies are actually
10 leaving the State of New York and taking their
11 jobs and taking their economic activity and
12 revenue that comes into -- through the taxes that
13 they pay, comes into the State of New York's
14 coffers that is then spent by this Legislature,
15 is because of the high taxes and the high cost of
16 doing business in the State of New York.
17 Would you agree with that statement?
18 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
19 Mr. President. I'm not sure if my colleague is
20 aware, but corporate taxes in New York are
21 assessed on companies whether they are based here
22 or not.
23 It is based on the income derived
24 within the state. Meaning that if a company is
25 not headquartered or based or has employees in
5494
1 the state but they do business and derive
2 business income in the State of New York, they
3 are subject to New York State's corporate tax
4 requirements.
5 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
6 continue to yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
8 sponsor yield?
9 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR RHOADS: But those taxes
13 are higher if -- through you, Mr. President.
14 However, those taxes are higher in terms of
15 corporate income if they are -- if they reside in
16 the State of New York, is that correct?
17 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
18 Mr. President, we don't differentiate between
19 businesses that are located in the State of
20 New York and businesses that are located outside
21 the State of New York. In fact, that would be
22 violative of constitutional law.
23 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
24 continue to yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
5495
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I will.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR RHOADS: Who ultimately
6 pays these taxes?
7 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
8 Mr. President, corporations do.
9 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
10 continue to yield?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR RHOADS: Is it reasonable
17 to expect that corporations that are in the
18 business of making money will pass that cost
19 along to the consumer?
20 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
21 Mr. President, I think that's how corporations
22 make a lot of money, by passing their costs on to
23 consumers.
24 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
25 continue to yield?
5496
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR RHOADS: So would you agree
7 that in extending the temporary Article 9-A tax
8 rates for three years -- which were set to
9 expire, but now we are increasing taxes on
10 corporations. And since we agree that
11 corporations pass those costs on to consumers,
12 why are we raising taxes on consumers?
13 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
14 Mr. President. Nothing in this proposal raises
15 taxes on corporations. They are -- the same tax
16 rate they were paying yesterday is the same tax
17 they're going to be paying tomorrow. There's no
18 change or increase in their tax liability from
19 yesterday to today or whenever this bill is
20 ultimately signed by the Governor.
21 SENATOR RHOADS: And will the
22 sponsor continue to yield?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
24 sponsor yield?
25 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
5497
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
2 sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR RHOADS: And with respect
4 to Parts F and G, which deal -- F deals with
5 decoupling from H.R.1 provisions, which are
6 exemptions that are provided by the federal
7 government which we are now not extending,
8 consistent exemptions to corporations both
9 outside of the City of New York and, in Part G,
10 inside of the City of New York.
11 Is there a particular reason why
12 we're doing that?
13 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
14 Mr. President. I'm so glad my colleague is
15 asking that question, because the answer is
16 absolutely yes.
17 Through the provisions of H.R.1 that
18 was passed by Congress and signed by
19 President Trump last year, corporations -- and
20 the biggest corporations on the planet --
21 received such a massive suite of tax benefits, so
22 much so that hundreds of companies are now going
23 to have zero federal tax liability because of the
24 sweetheart deal they got in H.R.1.
25 And because New York's tax code has
5498
1 something called rolling conformity, which means
2 that our tax provisions automatically conform to
3 the federal tax code unless we proactively change
4 that, the changes that were done at the federal
5 level, 200 miles away from -- or 500 miles away
6 from where we are right now, would have an
7 immediate fiscal impact to the State of New York.
8 Those are tax policy decisions that
9 none of us had the chance to weigh in on, debate,
10 contemplate, discuss or figure or determine if
11 it's in the best interests of New Yorkers.
12 And so what we are doing here, by
13 decoupling from the most egregious of these
14 corporate tax giveaways -- again, the very same
15 corporate tax giveaways that are going to let the
16 largest companies on this planet pay zero federal
17 income tax, at a time when we're all talking
18 about affordability and we're all talking about
19 making sure we can help families get by -- we
20 feel, this side feels that the cost to the state
21 of several billion dollars, we estimate just shy
22 of $2 billion this year alone, is too important
23 to have that income, that revenue be forgone
24 because of policy decisions that were made down
25 in Washington, D.C., policy decisions that we
5499
1 don't agree with and that don't benefit our
2 constituents, but serve solely to benefit big
3 corporations.
4 SENATOR RHOADS: Having no input
5 into the process certainly sounds like being in
6 the Minority in this Legislature.
7 Thank you for the answers to those
8 questions, Senator Gounardes.
9 On the bill, Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
11 Rhoads on the bill.
12 SENATOR RHOADS: I think what
13 you've highlighted here is a fundamental
14 difference in opinion between the Majority in
15 this chamber and the Minority.
16 That is that, first, extensions of a
17 tax increase are in fact a tax increase. Whether
18 it's on corporations, whether it's on
19 individuals, whether it's on anyone, if a tax
20 increase was set to expire and we simply extend
21 that tax increase by three years, you are
22 effectively raising taxes for another three years
23 on whatever the entity is.
24 The other fundamental disagreement
25 is the fact that -- and it's maybe not even a
5500
1 fundamental disagreement. My colleague on the
2 other side of the aisle conceded that
3 corporations pass along the cost of increased
4 costs of doing business to the consumer. That's
5 how they stay in business.
6 And so when we're raising taxes on
7 corporations -- nobody likes corporations, right?
8 But if you understand that corporations then pass
9 those increased costs on to consumers, if the
10 real issue is affordability, we are making
11 affordability an even bigger problem in the State
12 of New York, not a smaller one.
13 If we are taking away exemptions
14 that corporations are eligible for as a result of
15 policies down in Washington, we are effectively
16 increasing costs on corporations and increasing
17 costs on consumers.
18 So whether it's the good or service
19 that they provide, whether it's a product that
20 they provide, that product is now going to cost
21 more on the shelf. If it's a service they
22 provide, it's going to cost more to pay for that
23 service for the average individual consumer.
24 And so while my colleagues on the
25 other side of the aisle want to attack
5501
1 corporations, what they're really doing in a
2 policy like this is attacking you. Because you
3 are the one that bears the ultimate cost of that.
4 Thank you, Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
6 you, Senator Rhoads.
7 Senator Martins, why do you rise?
8 SENATOR MARTINS: Mr. President, on
9 the bill.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
11 Martins on the bill.
12 SENATOR MARTINS: So about a year
13 ago, back in July of 2025, Congress passed H.R.1.
14 We've all heard about it before. It was
15 referenced earlier today. A bunch of things
16 happen there.
17 One of the good things,
18 Mr. President, I think that happened there was
19 that Congress passed something that had been part
20 of the previous presidential cycle and decided
21 that they would eliminate income taxes on tipped
22 wages. Great step forward. They also went ahead
23 and agreed to eliminate taxes on overtime up to
24 certain limits.
25 So I find it, first of all,
5502
1 interesting that they did that a year ago, and
2 here we are looking at our proposed budget a year
3 later and it looks like New York is finally
4 catching up.
5 So if the sponsor would yield for a
6 few questions.
7 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 The sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
12 Through you, Mr. President.
13 So this was part of the last
14 presidential campaign. Obviously there were
15 proposals made with regard to tipped wages. Is
16 that where the inspiration came for including
17 this in this budget this year?
18 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
19 Mr. President. This proposal was included in
20 Governor Hochul's Executive Budget proposal. I
21 do not know from where she drew that inspiration
22 for this proposal.
23 But I think a fair assumption would
24 be that we are now matching the state income tax
25 code to the changes in the federal code. But
5503
1 again, I can't speak to the Governor's
2 motivations for including this in her budget
3 proposal.
4 SENATOR MARTINS: Appreciate that.
5 Mr. President, through you, if the
6 sponsor would continue to yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
8 sponsor yield?
9 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Gladly.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR MARTINS: But I notice that
13 there isn't the corresponding elimination of
14 income taxes on overtime. Was there a reason why
15 that piece was not carried forward, either by the
16 Governor or, frankly, by, you know, the Majority
17 in their one-house?
18 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
19 Mr. President. Again, as I said to the Senator's
20 previous question, this was a proposal that was
21 put on the table by the Governor. And there was
22 agreement amongst the three parties to accept
23 this proposal as the Governor had included it in
24 her Executive Budget submission.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
5504
1 Mr. President, through you, if the
2 sponsor would continue to yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
4 sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Sure.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR MARTINS: I have questions
9 on Part J. I'm hoping, Senator, that that's also
10 you?
11 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I'm hoping I
12 can answer your questions for you, Senator. Yes.
13 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
14 This has to do with enhancing the
15 New York City Musical and Theatrical Production
16 Tax Credit.
17 So from what I understand, there's
18 an additional $150 million tax credit that is
19 going to be added to previously funded tax
20 credits.
21 Senator, do you know how much money
22 is in the fund currently?
23 (Pause.)
24 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
25 Mr. President. Notwithstanding that fact that my
5505
1 colleague didn't ask the question using jazz
2 hands for Broadway --
3 (Laughter.)
4 SENATOR GOUNARDES: -- the previous
5 program was allocated $400 million.
6 It's my understanding that that --
7 that that program has expired, or that the money
8 has run out from that program. Hence the
9 expansion we're here discussing today.
10 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
11 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
12 yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
14 sponsor yield?
15 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Certainly.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR MARTINS: In fact, this tax
19 credit actually dates back to December 2025. Is
20 that to make up for the fact that we ran out of
21 funds out of the $400 million that had previously
22 been allocated for this fund?
23 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
24 Mr. President, yes.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
5506
1 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
2 yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
4 sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR MARTINS: So as I
9 understand it, this fund allocates $3 million
10 tranches to productions, theater productions and
11 the like, in New York City if they have a certain
12 seating capacity. Does that money have to be
13 repaid to the taxpayers of New York State?
14 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
15 Mr. President. This is a tax credit, which means
16 that it is reimbursable upon expenses paid by the
17 claiming entity.
18 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
19 Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to
20 yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 sponsor yields.
5507
1 SENATOR MARTINS: Are there any
2 jobs that are tied to the tax credit, receiving
3 the tax credit?
4 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
5 Mr. President. I mean, the whole point of this
6 program is to continue to support the arts on
7 Broadway.
8 And productions can't take place
9 without anyone there to produce them, to act, do
10 the stage work, to do ticket sales and concession
11 stands and all of the other jobs associated with
12 the Broadway industry. So yes, broadly speaking,
13 jobs are created as a result of these programs.
14 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
15 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
16 yield.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Will the
18 sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR MARTINS: So I'm sure that
23 in spending $400 million, and now an extra
24 $150 million, a study was conducted to show the
25 number of jobs that would have been there anyway
5508
1 or how many were created as a result of the
2 efforts of several hundred million dollars of tax
3 credits that are given the industry.
4 Was such a study performed?
5 (Pause.)
6 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
7 Madam President.
8 As my colleague may remember,
9 several years ago we did commission a study about
10 many of these economic development programs, and
11 including the Broadway tax credit. And the
12 economic impact that they provide, the immediate
13 impact, the secondary impact, the tertiary
14 impact.
15 And so on the basis of that study
16 that was done, the answer is yes, we have done an
17 analysis.
18 SENATOR MARTINS: On the bill,
19 Madam President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
21 Martins on the bill.
22 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
23 Senator.
24 You know, so there have been
25 studies, Madam President, there have been
5509
1 studies. And it shows that the return on these
2 funds is actually somewhere around 25, 26 cents
3 on the dollar.
4 So far as an investment in jobs and
5 return to the economy in economic development, I
6 think it is woefully inadequate for us to be
7 continuing to hand out tax credits to the tune of
8 hundreds of millions of dollars. And we'll come
9 back to it, I think, later on in this discussion
10 as well.
11 Because the idea of how we decide,
12 as a body and as a state government, to
13 prioritize certain things and give tax credits
14 for certain things and not for others, sometimes
15 is quite stunning.
16 And so I will -- I'll ask,
17 Madam President, if someone will yield for some
18 questions on Part CC.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
20 Gounardes, do you yield?
21 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
22 Madam President, I do.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
24 Senator yields.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
5510
1 Madam President. Through you.
2 So Part CC, if I read it correctly,
3 you know, there are instances -- you know, I have
4 children of mine that are in college, have gone
5 through college. There is food insecurity
6 amongst college students. And, you know, this
7 allows for students to donate their food credits
8 to a classmate in order for them to be able to
9 eat.
10 And we passed a bill last year,
11 Chapter 678 of 2025, that allowed for that
12 without requiring them to pay, of all things,
13 sales tax on allowing a classmate to have access
14 to their credit in order to be able to eat.
15 This bill, Part CC, would put that
16 into question and actually eliminate that under
17 certain circumstances.
18 Can you explain that to us, Senator?
19 (Pause.)
20 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
21 Madam President. It is not my understanding that
22 we are trying to undo the chapter that the
23 Senator referred to.
24 Though in the course of chapter
25 amendment negotiations, the Department of
5511
1 Taxation and Finance asked for some clarifying
2 language to make sure that the benefit actually
3 went to the students who need it and not create
4 any additional benefit for the schools or other
5 entities.
6 And that is the sole purpose of
7 these technical amendments here in Part CC.
8 SENATOR MARTINS: Mr. President, on
9 the bill.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
11 Martins on the bill.
12 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
13 Senator.
14 So Part CC actually is an amendment
15 to Chapter 678 of 2025. So 678 of 2025 said if
16 you have these credits and one of your classmates
17 is suffering with food insecurity, you can give
18 them those credits and you're not going to pay
19 sales tax on it.
20 Makes sense. Why in the world would
21 we go back and why would -- whether it's the
22 Governor, whether it's the Majority, whether it's
23 the Department of Taxation and Finance, why would
24 we in the middle of this budget, where we're
25 looking to actually spend close to $270 billion,
5512
1 why would we go back and say, no, but if a piece
2 of it somehow goes to the university for
3 administrative expenses, or whatever it happens
4 to be, that guy's going to have to pay sales tax
5 on the credits he gave his friend so he could
6 eat?
7 But I'll come back. Because this is
8 in the context, Mr. President, of us having
9 theater tax credits of $150 million on top of
10 $400 million, that gives $3 million in credits,
11 and yet we're nickel-and-diming college kids who
12 just give their credit so that they can eat.
13 With that, Mr. President, I'd ask if
14 anyone is available and would yield for some
15 questions on Part FF.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Part FF
17 would also be Senator Gounardes.
18 Senator Gounardes, do you yield?
19 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I certainly do.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
21 Senator yields.
22 SENATOR MARTINS: So you had some
23 questions earlier, Senator, from Senator Rhoads
24 regarding Part FF.
25 And again, everyone, from what I
5513
1 understand, is going to be entitled to this tax
2 credit regardless of whether they are actually
3 paying a utility bill. Did I understand that
4 correctly?
5 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
6 Mr. President, that is correct.
7 Because this is the POWER rebate
8 check, not the utility rebate check. And this
9 relates to the fact that people across the state
10 are having to pay higher power costs, energy
11 costs, not just exclusively related just to their
12 utility bills. So that is correct.
13 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
14 Mr. President, on the bill.
15 Thank you, Senator.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
17 Martins on the bill.
18 SENATOR MARTINS: So again, in the
19 context of theater tax credits, $400 million,
20 $150 million in this one, we're going to give
21 people who are suffering through probably the
22 worst affordability crisis that we've had in a
23 generation -- we're talking about giving them a
24 $150 credit annually towards energy or power
25 costs, whether it's electricity, whether it's
5514
1 gas, whether it's natural gas, whatever it
2 happens to be.
3 It's going to be the equivalent of a
4 little over $10 or $12 a month. And that's our
5 effort to help people deal with their utility
6 bills and the high cost of energy.
7 And we -- frankly, the Protecting
8 Our Wallets Energy Rebate, in the context of how
9 we are spending money and how this body is
10 spending money in this budget, giving them, our
11 taxpayers, back a $150 rebate frankly is
12 insufficient.
13 Mr. President, I was wondering if
14 anyone would yield for some questions on Part HH.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Part HH
16 would also be Senator Gounardes.
17 Senator Gounardes, do you yield?
18 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Yes,
19 Mr. President, I do.
20 SENATOR MARTINS: Mr. President, I
21 apologize. I'm going to go on the bill first.
22 I'll come back for some questions.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
24 Martins on the bill.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
5515
1 So for those who were wondering,
2 Part HH has to do with a new tax that is being
3 discussed, and I guess is now being advanced by
4 this body, which would impose a tax on property
5 owners in New York City.
6 Mr. President, when my parents
7 immigrated to the country, we first lived in
8 Jamaica, Queens, Mr. President. And that's where
9 my brothers and sisters and I were born. And
10 eventually they saved up enough money and they
11 bought a house in the suburbs and they moved to
12 Mineola, and that's where we were raised.
13 They bought that house after
14 scrounging for years. And then over time,
15 Mr. President -- and I know this is not a story
16 that is particular to me, it's the story of
17 everyone in this room. All of our families, I
18 would think, we all have examples of this, and
19 it's our communities at large -- eventually that
20 house started earning or accruing value.
21 The house that they had paid X for
22 after a few years was worth a little more than
23 that. And they worked hard and they paid off
24 their mortgage. And they had that value there.
25 So what this does is it says that
5516
1 value, your house that you bought for X, if it
2 increased in value over time, that increase in
3 value, we're going to tax you on that.
4 Now, we're now asking whether or not
5 they are still earning income. We're not asking
6 whether or not they can afford to pay it. We
7 can't ask whether or not they are retirees on a
8 fixed income. We're not asking that. We're just
9 saying that because your value of your property
10 happens to be X, whatever it happened to be when
11 you bought it, whatever it is now, we think we
12 have the right to tax it, Mr. President.
13 So we don't care whether or not
14 somebody has an apartment in New York City that
15 they may have bought once upon a time when they
16 had the means to do so. We don't care if they're
17 older now and they still have that apartment and
18 maybe they're on a fixed income.
19 We're going to tax it, and we're
20 going to tax that just because. Because we don't
21 like the fact that people may happen to have an
22 apartment somewhere outside of New York City or
23 live somewhere outside of New York City and yet
24 have a place in New York City that they may have
25 lived in their entire life until recently.
5517
1 But if they're no longer living
2 there, we're going to tax them and we're going to
3 tax them at a higher rate. We're going to tax
4 them at a rate that is going to force them to
5 sell that property. Without respect for
6 homeownership, for investments, or for their
7 ability to pay, because this has nothing to do
8 with income. This has everything to do with
9 value.
10 So with that, Mr. President, I'd ask
11 the sponsor to yield for a couple of questions.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
13 sponsor yield?
14 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do,
15 Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR MARTINS: So, Senator, how
19 many tax classifications are there in New York
20 City for residential property?
21 (Pause.)
22 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
23 Mr. President. First I just want to commend my
24 colleague for his vociferous defense of the
25 plight of the 1 percent.
5518
1 And the answer to his question is
2 two. There are two classes.
3 SENATOR MARTINS: Mr. President, on
4 the bill.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
6 Martins on the bill.
7 SENATOR MARTINS: No, this is what
8 it's about, right there. You heard it. "The
9 vociferous defense of the 1 percent."
10 The 1 percent could be the person
11 who worked their entire life as a carpenter, with
12 their hands, or as a mason or as a laborer,
13 worked their entire life and saved to build a
14 house. That house can be in Manhattan. It could
15 also be in Brooklyn. It could also be in Queens.
16 And that house that once upon a time they bought
17 for $20,000 or $25,000 today may be worth a lot
18 more than that. And you know and everyone else
19 in this room knows what that value is.
20 Defense of the 1 percent. How about
21 defense of the working person and the right for
22 them to have the benefit of their investment,
23 their hard work, and what they actually spent it
24 on? They saved, they sacrificed, they raised
25 their families -- and you want to call it the
5519
1 1 percent.
2 That's what you're doing. A million
3 dollars. What did that person put into that
4 house? How much did they pay for it? And can
5 they pay that tax? Because they happened to move
6 from Queens to Nassau County or moved from the
7 Bronx to Westchester County, all of a sudden
8 they're going to be taxed -- they can't even hold
9 on to it because they don't live there full-time
10 anymore?
11 Mr. President, there are several
12 classes of residential real property assessment
13 in New York City. Some of them have to do with
14 single home ownership; others have to do with
15 condos and co-ops. And there's a differentiation
16 between property classes.
17 And this is clearly a tax on those
18 people who happen to own residential properties.
19 They own those properties.
20 You know what's missing from this
21 calculation? What's missing from this
22 calculation is the person who owns -- or has,
23 sorry, they don't own it -- has an apartment on
24 the West Side of Manhattan. I don't know, you
25 tell me.
5520
1 I'm not talking about those areas of
2 the city where people live in poverty. I'm
3 talking about those areas in the city where we
4 still have rent-stabilized housing. And they
5 live in those apartments making hundreds of
6 thousands of dollars a year. Those apartments
7 are rentals, so we don't count them as ownership.
8 But we pass them on from parent to son or
9 daughter, to relatives.
10 We don't value those apartments.
11 Those apartments are worth millions of dollars,
12 but they're rentals, so they're excluded.
13 So, sure, you have somebody living
14 in the Hudson Valley, you have somebody living
15 out on Long Island, they have their
16 rent-stabilized unit in New York City. But it's
17 not owned, so we're not going to value it and
18 we're not going to force anyone to pay a tax.
19 But they are not living in New York City, and
20 they do not list that house or that apartment as
21 their primary residence.
22 But that's okay, because they're
23 renters. No, we're going to go after the owners
24 who actually put their blood, sweat and tears
25 into those units, into those purchases,
5521
1 maintained them, paid for them, and we're going
2 to require them to prove that that's their
3 primary residence.
4 So this is all about, Mr. President,
5 all about punishing ownership while ignoring the
6 reality that are 1.2 million rent-stabilized
7 units in New York City. And we call them
8 affordable, Mr. President, because for the people
9 who live in them, they're affordable. But that
10 doesn't mean that they are all means-tested, as
11 we've discussed on this floor before.
12 So you've got people who live in
13 rent-stabilized apartments on Central Park West,
14 you've got people who live in rent-stabilized
15 apartments in some pretty affluent areas in
16 New York City. But they can have those
17 apartments and still have their primary residence
18 somewhere else. They can vote somewhere else.
19 They can have their driver's license somewhere
20 else. They can pay their property taxes and
21 their income taxes from another address, but
22 we're not questioning that. No, we're going
23 after ownership.
24 And why is that, Mr. President? Why
25 are we -- why are we going after ownership?
5522
1 Because we have an administration in New York
2 City that is incapable of balancing its own
3 budget. And rather -- even though it's got a
4 $125 billion budget, or more. Talk about the
5 1 percent, Mr. President. A $125 billion budget
6 for a city. Almost half the entire budget of the
7 State of New York. Probably larger than the vast
8 majority of states in this country --
9 $125 billion.
10 But ask them to tighten their belt
11 and pay for their own expenses and you know what
12 they do? They say, No, we're going to go up to
13 Albany and we're going to ask you to tax people
14 and ask you to tax their ownership of their
15 property.
16 Mr. President, I was wondering if
17 the sponsor would yield for a few questions.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
19 Martins, what part?
20 SENATOR MARTINS: Same part.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 sponsor yields.
5523
1 SENATOR MARTINS: Senator, I was
2 wondering if you could tell us how much money is
3 projected to be raised from this tax on
4 middle-income homeowners in the City of New York.
5 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
6 Mr. President. I dispute the characterization
7 that someone who's buying a home that is not
8 their primary residence, that is valued at more
9 than $5 million, is middle-income.
10 But to answer the Senator's specific
11 question, the total projected revenue raised from
12 this measure is $506 million annually.
13 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
14 Mr. President, through you, if the
15 sponsor would continue to yield.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
17 sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
20 sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR MARTINS: So I understand
22 why you would want to go to the $5 million
23 figure, but this really affects people who own
24 homes worth a million dollars or more, doesn't
25 it?
5524
1 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
2 Mr. President, that's not correct.
3 SENATOR MARTINS: Mr. President, on
4 the bill.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
6 Martins on the bill.
7 SENATOR MARTINS: So just to
8 clarify, for Class 1 properties, it runs from
9 $5 million to $25 million on a sliding scale
10 running from 0.8 percent to 1.3 percent.
11 For Class 2 properties, which
12 includes condos and co-ops, it runs from
13 $1 million to $5 million, or over $5 million,
14 with the sliding scale being 4 percent,
15 5.25 percent, 6.5 percent.
16 And so the properties that this
17 impacts, depending on whether you're looking at
18 Class 1 or Class 2 properties, Mr. President, a
19 million dollars is the threshold.
20 Now, a million dollars is a lot of
21 money, there is no question about it. None. But
22 this talks about value -- market value, assessed
23 value. It doesn't speak to whether or not a
24 property has a million-dollar value and has an
25 $800,000 mortgage. It doesn't mean it's paid
5525
1 off. It doesn't talk about what the net value is
2 to the person who owns it. It's just the value
3 of the property.
4 So we're going to tax the value --
5 or you're going to tax the value without concern
6 for whether or not somebody piled together their
7 money, decided they wanted an apartment in the
8 city, laid it down, maybe a few years ago,
9 Mr. President, maybe they got it at a time --
10 maybe they got a good deal. And the city decides
11 now, over time, the property is worth more and
12 now we're going to impose another tax on that.
13 We're going to increase the tax rate
14 for Class 2 properties or Class 1 properties to
15 account for that, but only those for those people
16 who happen not to live in New York City as their
17 primary residence.
18 And I ask, Mr. President -- although
19 I'm not asking the sponsor at this point -- I
20 ask, how are we going to know where they live?
21 What are we going to do? How are we going to
22 reassess all of the properties in the city and
23 track down every owner in the city to determine
24 who is or is not a primary property owner in
25 New York City?
5526
1 How do I know that when they go out
2 and spend part of their year in the Hudson Valley
3 but then they come back and spend part of their
4 year in New York City, how are we going to know
5 where they are or aren't along that spectrum --
6 unless we're going to now begin to dive into
7 investigating each and every property owner that
8 we have, condo and co-op owner.
9 So, Mr. President, this is a
10 mistake. It's wrong. I'm fairly certain it's
11 illegal. So at some point you'll all be fighting
12 legal fees and legal bills when it comes to
13 challenges, where you are -- if you're 990,000 or
14 you're over a million.
15 And the question is, for what?
16 Because the City of New York and its leadership,
17 this Governor, this body, cares more about taxing
18 people out of their hard-earned money to support
19 programs in a city that won't tighten its own
20 belt and pay for its own bills.
21 It's immoral. I'll be voting no.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
23 Borrello, why do you rise?
24 SENATOR BORRELLO: I'm wondering if
25 somebody can answer some questions on Part GG.
5527
1 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President --
2 I'm sorry, Senator Borrello -- I think
3 Senator Gounardes was wanting to speak on the
4 bill.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: One
6 second, Senator Borrello.
7 Senator Gounardes on the bill.
8 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Thank you,
9 Mr. President. I just want to respond very
10 briefly to Senator Martins.
11 The structure of this tax is such
12 that for Class 1 properties that are valued at
13 more than $5 million, they'll pay the tax rates
14 for Class 1 properties.
15 For Class 2 properties, the co-ops
16 and condos that he was referring to, he cited the
17 million-dollar number as if we were going to
18 start taxing people on buying a million-dollar
19 home. That is incorrect.
20 Based -- and I point my colleague to
21 the text of the proposal itself. For the next
22 two years, that specific -- those specific units,
23 the Class 2 properties, will be assessed on an
24 imputed rental value of a million dollars.
25 Which means, in laymen's terms for
5528
1 all my colleagues here, if you are renting that
2 secondary home for more than $83,000 a month,
3 that gets you over the million dollars rental for
4 the year, then that property will be assessed
5 under the pied-à-terre tax proposal.
6 So if you are renting a home, a
7 secondary home for 83 -- or the value of that
8 that home is $83,000 or more a month -- which
9 means a very high-end property, not a
10 working-class co-op, not a middle-income family's
11 condo, but $83,000 or more a month -- that is the
12 point at which the pied-à-terre proposal will be
13 assessed for the next two years.
14 After which all Class 1 and Class 2
15 properties -- so the single to three-family
16 properties and the co-ops and condos -- will all
17 be assessed under $5 million or more of market
18 value, as laid out in the bill text.
19 So I don't want anyone to hear this
20 debate or any one of the three people watching us
21 online right now, or maybe watching this later on
22 in a clip, to believe that this tax would apply
23 to anyone who is buying a million-dollar home
24 anywhere in the City of New York. That is
25 flat-out false and wrong and incorrect, and not
5529
1 at all what we are doing in this proposal.
2 And so I just had to correct the
3 record to make sure that that is crystal clear.
4 That's nowhere in this proposal.
5 Thank you.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
7 you, Senator Gounardes.
8 Senator Borrello, you were asking
9 the sponsor to yield on what part?
10 SENATOR BORRELLO: On Part GG,
11 please.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Part GG,
13 would that also be -- Senator Gianaris,
14 excuse me.
15 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
16 that would be Senator Addabbo.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
18 Addabbo, do you yield?
19 SENATOR ADDABBO: Yes, I do.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR BORRELLO: Through you,
23 Mr. President. I'm asking specifically about the
24 standardbred total carbon dioxide on track
25 testing day.
5530
1 And there's a fee associated with
2 that. Could you please explain what the fee is
3 what and what it will do?
4 SENATOR ADDABBO: So through you,
5 Mr. President. There's an initial fee of
6 $540,000, which will be the equipment used for
7 the testing.
8 And then subsequent to that, as far
9 as the implementation of the testing, it would be
10 split fifty-fifty between the owners and the
11 track itself.
12 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
13 will the sponsor continue to yield?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
15 sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR ADDABBO: Yes, I do.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR BORRELLO: So that's the
20 same amount for every track, and then half of
21 that is going to be assessed on the owners of the
22 horses. Is that correct?
23 SENATOR ADDABBO: That is correct,
24 Senator Borrello.
25 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
5531
1 will the sponsor continue to yield?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
3 sponsor yield?
4 SENATOR ADDABBO: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR BORRELLO: Through you,
8 Mr. President. So is this a fee that's unique to
9 harness racing? Or is this also the same fee for
10 thoroughbred racing?
11 SENATOR ADDABBO: Through you,
12 Mr. President, this is unique to the
13 standardbred. Thoroughbred has its own.
14 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
15 will the sponsor continue to yield?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Does the
17 sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR ADDABBO: I do.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
20 sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR BORRELLO: I am not
22 familiar with, you know, carbon dioxide testing
23 in the -- I'm not an expert on that at all.
24 But please explain to me, you know,
25 if there's a differential between standardbred
5532
1 and thoroughbred racing for this bill.
2 (Pause.)
3 SENATOR ADDABBO: Through you,
4 Mr. President. Standardbred has its different,
5 unique testing. This is basically what we call a
6 milkshake for the standardbred, and do a
7 blood test. So it will be unique for the
8 standardbred.
9 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
10 will the sponsor continue to yield?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR ADDABBO: Yes, I do.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR BORRELLO: So this is
17 really more about testing the horses, not the --
18 when you say you're talking about a milkshake,
19 are we talking about the horses or the track?
20 SENATOR ADDABBO: Mr. President, to
21 be clear, it is about the horse taking the
22 milkshake.
23 SENATOR BORRELLO: Okay, that's
24 what I figured.
25 Mr. President, will the sponsor
5533
1 continue to yield?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
3 sponsor yield?
4 SENATOR ADDABBO: Yes,
5 Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR BORRELLO: So we're
9 basically going to burden -- I would say burden
10 the owners. Is this something that other states
11 do?
12 I mean, you know, there's -- you
13 know, I know standardbred owners that race
14 simultaneously in other states as well as
15 New York. Are we driving them towards other
16 states because of additional fees like this?
17 SENATOR ADDABBO: Through you,
18 Mr. President. To my knowledge, this is unique
19 to New York. I don't know if we do this in other
20 states.
21 But let's put it this way. In
22 horse racing, the equine care is paramount. It's
23 probably the number-one issue that actually
24 plagues the horse-racing industry. And here we
25 are addressing it.
5534
1 We have had no opposition to this
2 proposal in this budget from any owners, from any
3 trainers, to our knowledge. So to me, it's a
4 step in the right direction, Senator Borrello.
5 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
6 will the sponsor continue to yield?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
8 sponsor yield?
9 SENATOR ADDABBO: I do.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR BORRELLO: I'm not going to
13 debate that. Absolutely, we all want to make
14 sure that these horses are safe and certainly
15 that this is a revenue-generator for New York
16 State at the same time, and ensuring that we're
17 not driving them away.
18 So when you say you didn't get any
19 pushback, was there any -- whether it's the track
20 operators or horse owners, were they consulted
21 before this fee was created?
22 SENATOR ADDABBO: Through you,
23 Mr. President. No opposition to our knowledge at
24 this point.
25 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
5535
1 will the sponsor continue to yield?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
3 sponsor yield?
4 SENATOR ADDABBO: I do.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR BORRELLO: Right, I know
8 you said no opposition. But was there any
9 consultation with those groups, the stakeholders
10 involved, you know, in harness racing?
11 SENATOR ADDABBO: Through you,
12 Mr. President, I understand all standardbred
13 owners throughout the state were consulted.
14 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
15 that will do it for me. Thank you.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
17 you, Senator Borrello.
18 Senator Walczyk, why do you rise?
19 SENATOR WALCZYK: Mr. President, I
20 hope someone would yield for a part of the budget
21 that I didn't see here. It's about a tax credit
22 for volunteer firefighters and ambulance workers?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
24 Gianaris.
25 SENATOR GIANARIS: Sure, I'll
5536
1 address that. It's not there.
2 SENATOR WALCZYK: So through you,
3 Mr. President. So there was a proposal to have a
4 $600 tax credit for volunteer firefighters and
5 ambulance workers. It doubled that credit for
6 married couples, allowed volunteers to also get
7 credit even if their municipality had offered
8 them a property tax exemption locally.
9 But I didn't see that in any part
10 here. That wasn't included in the final budget?
11 SENATOR GIANARIS: Can you repeat
12 that?
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: I can.
14 So there was a $600 tax credit for
15 volunteer firefighters and for EMS workers. It
16 also had a provision that would allow them to get
17 that credit or the existing level of credit even
18 if they had a local property tax exemption.
19 But I didn't see that in the final
20 budget. Is that omitted?
21 SENATOR GIANARIS: I will point out
22 that's a legislative item that this house has
23 passed before, so it's still possible we can take
24 it up before we conclude next week.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you.
5537
1 And through you, Mr. President,
2 would someone yield on Part J?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Part J
4 would be Senator Gounardes.
5 Senator Gounardes, do you yield?
6 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you.
10 Through you, Mr. President. And I
11 know earlier it was explained this section
12 expands the New York City Musical and Theater Tax
13 Credit from $400 million to $550 million.
14 A theatrical production in New York
15 City can now get up to $3 million per production,
16 is that correct?
17 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
18 Mr. President, that is the maximum eligible
19 amount that an entity can claim under this tax
20 credit.
21 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you.
22 And through you, Mr. President,
23 would the sponsor continue to yield?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
25 sponsor yield?
5538
1 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR WALCZYK: Last year -- in
5 last year's budget this program was already
6 expanded from $300 million in total to
7 $400 million. This year we're taking it from
8 $400 million to $550 million.
9 What's the return on investment when
10 we're putting that much tax money into this
11 credit?
12 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
13 Mr. President. As I'm sure we all know, Broadway
14 is a big part of why millions and millions and
15 millions of people come as tourists to New York
16 every single year. Last year we had nearly
17 70 million tourists in New York City alone,
18 Broadway being a large draw for that.
19 When these tourists come, they
20 occupy hotel rooms, they eat in our local
21 restaurants, they buy souvenirs, they're spending
22 money in our local economy. And Broadway is a
23 big part of the New York story.
24 And so I would argue that there are
25 significant secondary and tertiary benefits from
5539
1 investing and supporting the arts, and
2 particularly supporting Broadway.
3 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
4 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
5 yield.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
7 sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR WALCZYK: Do you have any
12 kind of figure for the return on investment that
13 we get for this?
14 (Pause.)
15 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
16 Mr. President, while staff is looking for some
17 further figures, I'll just point my colleague to
18 my previous answer. There is a significant
19 secondary and tertiary benefit to this program.
20 The report that I had cited earlier
21 in response to a previous colleague's questions
22 that examined a number of these economic
23 development programs did assess a ROI for each
24 individual program, though I'll note that that
25 report did not do a but-for analysis. In other
5540
1 words, it did not determine whether or not these
2 various industries that were being supported
3 through various economic development incentives
4 would continue to thrive but for the existence of
5 various economic programs.
6 So while we look for more specific
7 data, I'll point my colleague back to my previous
8 answer. There is, I think, significant secondary
9 and tertiary impact from investments like this.
10 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you.
11 And through you, Mr. President,
12 would the sponsor continue to yield?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
14 sponsor yield?
15 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR WALCZYK: Yeah,
19 understanding that it may be hard to pin down,
20 and without any but-for, you know, the
21 $550 million investment in Broadway, whether they
22 would survive or at what level, fine.
23 Leaving that aside, this also
24 includes off-Broadway productions and smaller
25 theatrical productions as well, doesn't it?
5541
1 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
2 Mr. President, yes. There are some smaller
3 productions that might not have the same pizzazz
4 and sizzle, as some of the headliners that we
5 know, that we get to go see. But that would also
6 benefit from this type of investment.
7 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you,
8 Mr. President. On the bill.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:
10 Senator Walczyk on the bill.
11 SENATOR WALCZYK: Pizzazz and
12 sizzle indeed. Twenty-three cents on the dollar
13 is the return on investment when New York State
14 tax money is used. This is bad economic
15 development. Broadway isn't going to go away if
16 we don't spend over half a billion dollars in
17 taxpayer money to support it.
18 This really epitomizes -- and when
19 you think of losing the priority of providing a
20 small tax credit to volunteer EMS and
21 firefighters, that coming off of the budgetary
22 table, and instead adding a new additional
23 $150 million for theatrical productions
24 specifically in New York City, and some to
25 off-Broadway complete flops.
5542
1 Mr. President, I would ask someone
2 to yield on Part C.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Part C?
4 I assume that's Senator Gounardes, that's also
5 you. Do you yield?
6 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Yes, sir.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: Welcome back.
10 Through you, Mr. President. This
11 part says deductions to the 501(c)(3)s will still
12 count even if the IRS has revoked their
13 tax-exempt status?
14 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
15 Mr. President. Just to be more specific, what
16 this provision says is that deductions as it
17 relates to state income taxes will still be
18 considered charitable contributions even if
19 potentially a receiving entity had their status
20 revoked by the IRS specifically because of an act
21 of political retaliation by the Internal Revenue
22 Service or the federal government directing the
23 IRS to do so.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
25 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
5543
1 yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
3 sponsor yield?
4 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR WALCZYK: And that would be
8 as long as their reason for losing the status
9 isn't related to that nonprofit's mission, as I
10 read the language here in Part C.
11 SENATOR GOUNARDES: That is
12 correct, Mr. President.
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
14 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
15 yield?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
17 sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Certainly.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
20 sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR WALCZYK: So what if they
22 fail to file with the IRS? That's one of the
23 most common ways that 501(c)(3)s can lose their
24 nonprofit status. There's an automatic way that
25 those 501(c)(3)s get their status revoked. Would
5544
1 that still apply here?
2 SENATOR GOUNARDES: If an entity,
3 if a charitable entity, a 501(c)(3) entity loses
4 their status because they failed to comply with
5 the requirements of filling in their tax
6 documents, that is not what is being considered
7 as part of this proposal.
8 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
9 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to
10 yield?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: So through you,
17 Mr. President, that means those deductions would
18 no longer count, even for New York State filings,
19 is that correct?
20 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
21 Mr. President, that is correct.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
23 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
24 yield?
25 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
5545
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
2 sponsor yield? The sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR WALCZYK: What if the
4 501(c)(3) has engaged in partisan political
5 activity and that's the reason that the IRS has
6 revoked their status?
7 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
8 Mr. President, if a 501(c)(3) is engaged in
9 political electioneering, that is violative of
10 their 501(c)(3) status. And if there was a
11 determination made by the IRS that they were
12 engaged in that conduct, then they would not be
13 eligible to receive the deductible contributions.
14 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
15 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to
16 yield?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
18 sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: What if the IRS
23 revokes their tax-exempt status for excessive
24 lobbying? Would that also apply here?
25 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
5546
1 Mr. President, if a 501(c)(3) organization loses
2 their status for any valid reason, meaning that
3 they have violated one of the provisions of the
4 tax code that grants them that status, then these
5 provisions would not apply.
6 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
7 Mr. President, would the sponsor yield?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: And one of those
14 being excessive lobbying, obviously.
15 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Certainly.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: What if the IRS
17 revokes their status for paying CEOs too much,
18 for excessive salaries, showing that, you know,
19 the charity is paying to too much personal
20 privilege?
21 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
22 Mr. President, it is not my understanding that
23 that is a valid reason why an entity might lose
24 their (c)(3) status.
25 Unless, of course, there is some
5547
1 type of financial mismanagement or fraud that is
2 happening at that company -- or at that entity,
3 which is a larger issue than just a compensation
4 question. There's a fiscal mismanagement issue,
5 at which point there could be a loss of (c)(3)
6 status.
7 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
8 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
9 yield?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
11 sponsor yield?
12 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR WALCZYK: And on that note,
16 if the IRS had found that a 501(c)(3) in New York
17 was committing fraud, the charitable deductions
18 would still not apply here?
19 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
20 Mr. President, that's correct. Any (c)(3) entity
21 that loses their status for any valid reason
22 would not be eligible under these provisions.
23 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
24 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
25 yield?
5548
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
7 Mr. President. It says in Part C here that so
8 long as the 501(c)(3) establishes its revocation
9 is unrelated to its mission -- who would
10 determine that for the State of New York?
11 (Pause.)
12 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
13 Mr. President. The burden in this case would be
14 put on the individual claiming the charitable
15 deduction.
16 If the Tax Department decides to
17 conduct an audit of an individual's tax return
18 and question the claiming of a charitable
19 contribution, the taxpayer would be able to say,
20 Look, here's why I continue to support this
21 organization, because they were being targeted,
22 you know, for whatever reason and they lost their
23 status federally for reasons not related -- for
24 nonvalid reasons.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
5549
1 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
2 yield?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
4 sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR WALCZYK: So that would be
9 on the Department of Tax and Finance on
10 individual tax forms in that case, is that
11 correct?
12 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Well, through
13 you, Mr. President, if an individual chooses, you
14 know, in the course of their day to day, they
15 make a donation to a charitable organization,
16 they make a donation to their alumni association,
17 they support various different charities, and if
18 it turns out that one of those charitable
19 organizations subsequently loses or even
20 previously loses their tax status at the federal
21 level for a nonvalid purpose, that individual,
22 should they be audited by the Department of
23 Taxation and Finance to say, Hey, you claimed
24 this deduction improperly, it would then be on
25 the individual to say, No, I still believe this
5550
1 is a valid charitable contribution because this
2 organization lost their status for a non-valid
3 purpose, here's the news article, here's the clip
4 of the IRS chief saying we're going after all of
5 the cancer foundations in New York because we
6 don't like their work or whatever, as a
7 hypothetical.
8 And so it would not be a form that
9 DTF submits them right away, it would be upon --
10 or basically a defense from the individual
11 taxpayer in the conduct of that audit.
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you.
13 Through you, Mr. President, I would
14 ask someone to yield on Part K.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Part K.
16 Would that also be Senator Gounardes,
17 Senator Gianaris?
18 SENATOR GIANARIS: That is also
19 Senator Gounardes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
21 Gounardes, do you yield to questions on Part K?
22 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
5551
1 Mr. President. You're taxing nicotine pouches.
2 Is that wholesale or retail?
3 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
4 Mr. President, that is wholesale.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
6 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to
7 yield?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: How much?
14 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
15 Mr. President, we are including these products
16 in the current alternative tobacco tax, which is
17 75 percent wholesale.
18 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
19 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
20 yield?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 sponsor yields.
5552
1 SENATOR WALCZYK: Where does that
2 money go?
3 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
4 Mr. President, $50 million of that tax will be
5 sent to HCRA, and the rest will go to the
6 General Fund.
7 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
8 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
9 yield?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
11 sponsor yield?
12 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Certainly.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR WALCZYK: What's the
16 purpose of the $50 million that's carved out for
17 HCRA?
18 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
19 Mr. President. Like we do with other tobacco
20 taxes, that money is used for public health
21 programs and for cessation initiatives.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
23 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
24 yield?
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
5553
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: That's the same
6 program that gets people to try and convert to
7 safer products and not to smoke? Do I understand
8 that correctly?
9 (Pause.)
10 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Mr. President,
11 would Senator Walczyk please repeat his question?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Would you
13 mind rephrasing, Senator Walczyk?
14 SENATOR WALCZYK: Not at all. I
15 just wanted to -- through you, Mr. President,
16 wanted to identify that that is the program that
17 we set up to get people to not smoke.
18 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
19 Mr. President, correct.
20 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you.
21 Mr. President, I would ask the
22 sponsor to yield on Part FF.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Part FF.
24 Senator Gounardes, do you yield?
25 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
5554
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
2 sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
4 Mr. President, I won't rehash all of the other
5 issues, but there was something I wanted to drill
6 down on here in Part FF, which is the Protecting
7 Our Wallets Energy Rebate.
8 We established that this isn't going
9 directly to ratepayers but New Yorkers who
10 qualify. And people can expect a small check
11 right before this year's election.
12 Is that coming out of the Clean
13 Energy Fund or is that out of the General Fund
14 taxpayer revenue in the State of New York?
15 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through,
16 Mr. President, this is from general revenue.
17 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you. I
18 appreciate you answering my questions.
19 Mr. President, on the bill.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:
21 Senator Walczyk on the bill.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: I thought this
23 was one mistake that we were going to fix. We
24 certainly, in our conference, have offered up a
25 lot of helpful ideas in this budgetary process.
5555
1 Ratepayers across the State of
2 New York want to understand, as my colleagues
3 pointed out, what are all these taxes,
4 assessments and fees doing raising the cost of
5 each one of my energy bills, and where is that
6 money going?
7 Well, we did some digging and we
8 found out that there's a Clean Energy Fund that
9 has billions of their dollars that have carried
10 over year after year, and that fund is actually
11 increasing. Despite having all of the solar
12 sprawl, all of the battery power, all of the
13 things that New York State is spending ratepayer
14 money on, they can't even spend what they're
15 overcollecting fast enough.
16 So there's billions of dollars
17 sitting there, waiting for the State of New York
18 to give that money back to the people that they
19 overcollected it from -- not redistribute it to
20 everyone based on some income-qualifying things,
21 as this body often does, but directly back as
22 relief to the people that you overcollected it
23 from in the first place. That would have been
24 the right thing to do.
25 I don't even know why this is called
5556
1 energy at all, why energy would be related to
2 this, because you're taking people's tax money
3 and then you're just giving them a very small
4 check right before the election happens this
5 year.
6 We've seen that election-year
7 gimmick plenty of times in politics in New York
8 State, but it has nothing to do with real
9 ratepayer relief.
10 I'll be voting no on this bill, and
11 I encourage my colleagues to do the same.
12 Thank you, Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
14 you, Senator Walczyk.
15 Are any other Senators -- I guess
16 there are other Senators.
17 Senator Rhoads, why do you rise?
18 SENATOR RHOADS: I was hoping that
19 the sponsor might yield to a question with
20 respect to Part S, as in Sam.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Part S.
22 Senator Gianaris, would that also be
23 Senator Gounardes?
24 SENATOR GIANARIS: Yes, it would.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
5557
1 Gounardes, do you yield for a question on Part S?
2 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I gladly yield
3 for questions on Part S.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
7 Senator Gounardes.
8 Incidentally, the first question
9 I'll ask, is there anyone else covering a
10 different part of this bill that you want me to
11 ask questions to so you have a break?
12 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
13 Mr. President, I would be heartbroken --
14 (Laughter.)
15 SENATOR GOUNARDES: -- if you would
16 choose to debate someone else on these questions.
17 So I'm glad, I'm happy to answer the
18 Senator's questions.
19 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
20 Senator Gounardes.
21 And will the sponsor continue to
22 yield?
23 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I will.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
25 sponsor yield? The sponsor yields.
5558
1 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
2 Senator.
3 On Part S, it indicates that we are
4 extending the alternative fuel exemption for a
5 period of five years. What taxes, state taxes
6 are included that are being exempted?
7 (Pause.)
8 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
9 Mr. President, the taxes that are exempted here
10 would be motor fuel, petroleum, business fuel use
11 and state and local sales and compensating use
12 taxes.
13 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
14 Senator. Will the sponsor continue to yield?
15 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
17 sponsor yield? The sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR RHOADS: Through you,
19 Mr. President. The petroleum business tax, what
20 is that?
21 (Pause.)
22 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
23 Mr. President, the petroleum business tax is a
24 tax assessed on the import of petroleum products
25 into the state.
5559
1 SENATOR RHOADS: And will the
2 sponsor continue to yield?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
4 sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR RHOADS: And that is a tax
9 that's imposed on every gallon of fuel, whether
10 it happens to be alternative fuel or gasoline,
11 for example, that you would put in your vehicle.
12 That's imposed on every gallon of fuel that's
13 purchased by every consumer in the State of
14 New York, correct?
15 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
16 Mr. President, that tax is assessed on the
17 businesses who are doing the importing, yes.
18 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
19 continue to yield?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR RHOADS: And that cost is
5560
1 passed along to the consumer that purchases a
2 gallon of gas at the pump, is it not?
3 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
4 Mr. President, if the person importing that gas
5 chooses to pass that cost on, it certainly could
6 be. They don't have to. They could be, you
7 know, benevolent and say, You know what, I'll eat
8 this cost and take home a few fewer nickels.
9 But yes, potentially.
10 SENATOR RHOADS: I think it's safe
11 to assume that cost is passed on to the consumer,
12 right?
13 Will the sponsor continue to yield?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
15 sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR GOUNARDES: I do.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR RHOADS: And the petroleum
20 business tax, do you know how much that tax is on
21 each gallon of fuel?
22 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Through you,
23 Mr. President, we're going to get the exact tax
24 rates, because it varies based on the type of
25 fuel.
5561
1 And so I'll make sure that I get the
2 Senator the specific rate for the specific types
3 of fuel. If there's a particular fuel you have
4 in mind that you're curious about, we can
5 prioritize that.
6 SENATOR RHOADS: Gasoline.
7 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Gasoline.
8 (Pause.)
9 SENATOR GOUNARDES: While we
10 continue to look that up, if the Senator has an
11 additional question, I'm happy to move on and
12 come back.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Actually,
14 Senator Rhoads, an act in relation to that, your
15 30-minute individual time for debate has expired.
16 If you so desire, you may explain
17 your vote at the conclusion of this bill. Your
18 side's two-hour debate limit is still going on.
19 Thank you, Senator Rhoads.
20 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
21 Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Are there
23 any other Senators wishing to be heard?
24 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
25 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
5562
1 Read the last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
8 Gonzalez to explain her vote.
9 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Thank you,
10 Mr. President.
11 In the richest city in the richest
12 country in the history of the world, we have the
13 resources to feed and home every child in this
14 state. And yet last year the number of homeless
15 students rose to 154,000 -- a record high.
16 Billionaires like Jeff Bezos will
17 tell you this is a spending problem. Last week
18 in an interview he said that doubling his taxes
19 would do nothing to help a teacher in Queens.
20 Well, Mr. President, I am the
21 daughter of a teacher from Queens, and I spent
22 the first half of my education in public school
23 and the second half at one of the wealthiest
24 independent schools in the entire country. And I
25 can tell you firsthand that he is wrong. He is
5563
1 wrong on multiple levels.
2 He's wrong because according to the
3 Budget Lab at Yale, doubling his taxes could
4 increase salaries by $35,000 a year. I grew up
5 in a one-bedroom apartment. That money would
6 have benefited me and my family.
7 He's also wrong to focus on the
8 44,000 we spend per student. That was the
9 tuition for my education back then. The school I
10 went to is now over 70,000 a year, because the
11 wealthy understand that it is a good investment
12 to spend on their kids. But when it comes to our
13 kids, it's overspending and mismanagement.
14 But what he's wrong most of all, to
15 me, on is that my constituents aren't smart
16 enough to understand that it is both true that we
17 should make sure every dollar spent on education
18 goes as far as it possibly can, and that the real
19 barrier to outcomes and making sure that we all
20 live a dignified life is the wealth that he and
21 his billionaire buddies are hoarding.
22 It is true that they are paying
23 objectively a lower tax rate today than they paid
24 in the 1950s. It is true that they have seen
25 record profits --
5564
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
2 Gonzalez, how do you vote?
3 SENATOR GONZALEZ: It is true that
4 in order to actually invest in our New York, we
5 need --
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
7 Gonzalez, how do you vote?
8 SENATOR GONZALEZ: -- to raise
9 taxes on the wealthy. And because this bill
10 fails to do that, I vote no.
11 Thank you.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
13 Gonzalez votes in the affirmative {sic}.
14 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
15 just a reminder to my colleagues --
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: I'm
17 sorry, in the negative.
18 SENATOR GIANARIS: -- on both sides
19 of the aisle, we're trying to get through the
20 budget bills today and tonight, so we will be
21 enforcing the two-minute vote explanation rule
22 very strictly.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
24 you, Senator Gianaris.
25 I'd like for some order so we can
5565
1 respect our colleagues, whether you agree with
2 their vote explanations or not. Thank you.
3 Senator Borrello to explain his
4 vote.
5 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
6 Mr. President.
7 I found it interesting that one of
8 the initiatives in this bill is to protect your
9 wallet. How are we going to protect people's
10 wallets? We're going to give them a hundred
11 bucks.
12 What do they need their wallets
13 protected from? Bad policy here, from the
14 pickpockets in Albany picking their pockets to
15 the tune of thousands of dollars. It's the
16 failure to do anything about rising energy costs.
17 But we're going to blame the
18 producers, the job creators, the people that
19 actually pay the bills here in New York State.
20 We're going to pick their pockets more.
21 But you know what? Those
22 pockets are portable. They leave. And we lead
23 the nation, whether it's billionaires or
24 working-class people, we lead the nation in
25 people leaving New York State for other
5566
1 locations.
2 So we can sit here and do this
3 class-warfare rhetoric, but at the end of the day
4 the losers are going to be the people left behind
5 here in New York, the people that cannot afford
6 to leave this state. They're the ones who are
7 going to have to continually have their pockets
8 picked and to protect their wallets from bad
9 policies in this chamber and this city.
10 So I'll be voting no. Thank you.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
12 Borrello to be recorded in the negative.
13 Senator Brisport to explain his
14 vote.
15 SENATOR BRISPORT: Thank you,
16 Mr. President.
17 You know, a year ago I stood here
18 and publicly named some of the billionaires who
19 are quietly pulling the strings of our
20 government, as Governor Hochul forced through a
21 budget that fully preserved their tax breaks.
22 I did so knowing I would not be
23 taking on these horrifically powerful individuals
24 alone. I did so knowing that quiet anger was
25 already whispered in break rooms and at kitchen
5567
1 counters. I did so knowing that community
2 leaders were already organizing resistance.
3 And sure enough, I was immediately
4 flooded with hundreds of messages from people
5 ready to fight back. The chokehold millionaires
6 and billionaires have on our government is
7 daunting. Their extraordinary degree of power is
8 hard to even imagine, and yet still thousands
9 have stepped up to take on that power together.
10 Over the past year, more and more
11 people have joined in to march, call, rally and
12 knock on their neighbors' doors, saying "Tax the
13 rich." Today, because of them, we see the cracks
14 starting to form in the power that millionaires
15 and billionaires hold over our government. For
16 the first time since taking office, Governor
17 Hochul has agreed to implement a new tax on the
18 ultra-rich, something she had publicly proclaimed
19 she would absolutely not do.
20 And although it is an egregiously
21 small tax on those who have more wealth than they
22 can spend in a lifetime, it is proof that they
23 are not invincible. It is proof that this
24 uprising is working. New Yorkers are sick and
25 tired of living in a state where the ultra-rich
5568
1 amass billions of dollars in wealth while our
2 public infrastructure crumbles and our social
3 safety net frays.
4 If Governor Hochul and her
5 billionaire funders think they have done enough
6 to quell this brewing storm, they are wrong. We
7 are just getting started.
8 I vote nay.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
10 Brisport to be recorded in the negative.
11 Senator Chan to explain his vote.
12 SENATOR CHAN: Thank you,
13 Mr. President.
14 So what happened to the
15 affordability crisis that the Governor and my
16 colleagues on the other side of the aisle have
17 been talking about for months? What happened to
18 the no tax on overtime? What happened to the
19 larger rebates for our working class and the
20 ratepayers?
21 The bigger breaks for our seniors,
22 our disabled veterans, I don't see it here -- no
23 matter what it's called, whether you call it an
24 adjustment or a fee or surcharge. And, you know,
25 taxing a property's value rather than its net
5569
1 worth to its owner -- as some of my colleagues
2 have mentioned earlier, a tax is still a tax.
3 Two hundred seventy billion dollars
4 spent, and I see very little that actually
5 addresses the immediate crisis that faces our
6 good citizens of New York today, and that's
7 affordability. Real affordability.
8 And I'm going to have to vote no on
9 this. Thank you.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
11 Chan to be recorded in the negative.
12 Senator Martins to explain his vote.
13 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
14 Mr. President.
15 You know, this state in the last
16 eight years has increased spending by a
17 hundred billion dollars. Our roads are still
18 potholed, infrastructure is still crumbling. And
19 people are asking, if you could spend your way to
20 affordability, to better lives for people less
21 fortunate, go ahead and do it.
22 But what do we have to show for it?
23 A hundred billion dollars gone. We still have
24 homeless. We still have mental health crises.
25 We still have people in need of medical care
5570
1 desperately. And we keep spending money, and you
2 don't get it done. So merely throwing money in
3 the air and taxing people for the sake of taxing
4 people because it makes you feel good is the
5 wrong answer.
6 Mr. President, with regard to
7 co-ops, I'll remind everyone, since I ran out of
8 time, that co-ops are taxed as commercial
9 properties. You don't tax the individual, you
10 only tax the building. And when you tax the
11 building, then they push those taxes to the
12 individual units based on their unit value or the
13 unit assessment.
14 So the building is taxed as a
15 commercial property, not the individual
16 apartment. It's still wrong. The pied-a-terre
17 tax is a mistake. You're going to do it anyway.
18 And that's why, Mr. President, I'm
19 voting no.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
21 Martins to be recorded in the negative.
22 Senator Skoufis to explain his vote.
23 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Thank you very
24 much, Mr. President.
25 I just want to offer a remark or two
5571
1 on some of the conversation that we heard about
2 utility bills and making a mistake.
3 I'm not a huge fan of the
4 rebate-check approach, just as I wasn't a fan of
5 the check approach from last year that was
6 deployed to many millions of households around
7 New York. But I want to respond to this baseless
8 suggestion, this meritless suggestion that we can
9 just wave a magic wand and do away with taxes and
10 fees to lower everyone's utility bills.
11 Senator Gounardes pointed out, and I
12 want to underscore, the large majority of the
13 taxes that are paid are property taxes by these
14 utility companies. Okay, let's do away with
15 property taxes. Tell that to your local school
16 districts, tell that to your local towns, tell
17 that to your local counties, and find the
18 billions of dollars -- we're just hearing a lot
19 of complaints about how many additional billions
20 of dollars we spend in our state budget. Find
21 many more billions of dollars to make up for
22 those lost property taxes, that lost revenue.
23 That, of course, is not mentioned as part of the
24 series of suggestions.
25 And then we talk about fees.
5572
1 Without any specificity whatsoever, just wave the
2 magic wand, do away with fees. Let's pick one.
3 ZECs, zero-emission credits. Three upstate
4 nuclear power plants are open today because we
5 have ZECs that are funded through the utility
6 bill.
7 Utility rates are too high. There's
8 not a single person in this chamber who would
9 disagree with that. But do away with ZECs?
10 Okay. Close the FitzPatrick plant in Oswego,
11 close the Ginna plant in Ontario, close
12 Nine Mile, also in Oswego.
13 Tell those employees, everyone -- we
14 hear a lot about the grid, reliability. No
15 mention of that. Well, let's do away with ZECs
16 and all the fees.
17 There are repercussions to the
18 policies that we enact --
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
20 Skoufis, how do you vote?
21 SENATOR SKOUFIS: This is a
22 responsible bill. I vote yes.
23 Thank you.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
25 Skoufis to be recorded in the affirmative.
5573
1 Senator Weik to explain her vote.
2 SENATOR WEIK: Thank you,
3 Mr. President.
4 This bill is nothing but a spending
5 and taxing bill. We don't have a revenue problem
6 in this state; we can see that. We have a taxing
7 and spending problem in this state.
8 We were just talking about waving a
9 magic wand to erase property taxes. Other states
10 are working toward that. That is a goal of other
11 states, to do away with property taxes and make
12 life in their state better. But we're going to
13 be the first to spend more money than any other
14 state on our annual budget, once again.
15 Every state has 1 percenters, the
16 ultra-rich that we were talking about. Every
17 single state has them. New York is going to be
18 first again. We're going to be the first state
19 to not have any ultra-rich. Because we're going
20 to drive them out with this pied-à-terre tax, and
21 no one's going to want to live here. And that's
22 what this bill does.
23 I vote no.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
25 Weik to be recorded in the negative.
5574
1 Senator Gianaris to explain his
2 vote.
3 SENATOR GIANARIS: Thank you,
4 Mr. President.
5 Once again I'm compelled to rise to
6 explain my vote and remind my colleagues that a
7 property tax cap exists in this state because our
8 Senate Majority got it enacted in our first year
9 in the majority after decades of the Republicans
10 being in the majority and refusing to do it. So
11 yes, we do know how to lower property taxes in
12 this state, because we have done it.
13 And so I appreciate my colleagues
14 who are voting in support of this bill, and I
15 also vote aye.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
17 Gianaris to be recorded in the affirmative.
18 Senator Rhoads to explain his vote.
19 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
20 Mr. President.
21 Yeah, the tax cap used to exist for
22 the state budget as well. We've seen that that's
23 gone out the window under this Majority, with
24 $100 billion in increased spending over the
25 course of the last eight years. Five thousand
5575
1 dollars per family per year because of increased
2 spending as a result of this Majority.
3 New York -- and there are
4 consequences. New York has lost 892 companies
5 and $47 billion in economic activity since
6 Governor Hochul has been Governor.
7 It does have consequences. When
8 these companies leave, what do they do? They
9 take away jobs, the jobs that feed your families,
10 the jobs that pay your bills. That has real
11 consequences and real economic consequences to
12 this state.
13 You don't want to talk about energy
14 costs and the taxes that we saddle on the cost of
15 energy because of the policies in this chamber?
16 You don't want to talk about NYSERDA and the
17 report that NYSERDA put out that it's going to
18 add $2.31 to the cost of a gallon of gas and will
19 cost the average family an additional $2,000 in
20 their utility bills as a result of the policies
21 we pass in this chamber?
22 Okay, let's just talk about the
23 price of a gallon of gas: 15.8 cents petroleum
24 business tax. Another 8 cents a gallon on the
25 excise tax, another 8.75 cents on the
5576
1 Metropolitan Commuter Transportation Tax if you
2 live downstate. Another 8 cents on sales taxes.
3 Forty cents a gallon. If you fill up your tank,
4 $8 is going into New York State's pocket with the
5 taxes that we pay.
6 The affordability problem that we
7 have in this state is because of here. And if we
8 try to continue this march towards socialism,
9 again, in the words of Margaret Thatcher: The
10 problem with socialism is that eventually you run
11 out of other people's money. We are running out
12 of it fast, and that's going to be a problem for
13 the State of New York.
14 I'm voting no.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
16 Rhoads to be recorded in the negative.
17 Senator Cleare to explain her vote.
18 SENATOR CLEARE: Thank you,
19 Mr. President.
20 As chair of the Senate Aging
21 Committee, I rise to explain my vote on a
22 particular portion of the revenue bill before us.
23 Increasing and expanding SCRIE,
24 DRIE, SCHE and DHE represents a hard-fought
25 victory for so many New Yorkers, including our
5577
1 seniors. These programs are literal lifelines
2 and time-tested commonsense solutions to keep
3 older New Yorkers in all the places they love --
4 their homes, their communities, and their
5 neighborhoods, near houses of worship, friends
6 and family, long-term relationships and support
7 networks. Expanding eligibility for SCRIE and
8 related programs provides our residents with
9 housing that is stable, permanent, high-quality,
10 community-centric and affordable.
11 That is exactly what we need in our
12 state. I want to personally thank Senator Brian
13 Kavanagh for his tireless advocacy and courageous
14 partnership and leadership on this matter.
15 I proudly vote aye.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
17 Cleare to be recorded in the affirmative.
18 Senator Kavanagh to explain his
19 vote.
20 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Thank you,
21 Mr. Speaker. I'll just echo the comments of a
22 great colleague, the chair of our Aging
23 Committee, Senator Cleare.
24 You know, the SCRIE and DRIE and
25 SCHE and DHE programs are one of our most basic
5578
1 ways of ensuring that people can live stably in
2 their communities, the communities that in many
3 cases they have spent many decades in.
4 SCRIE and DRIE are programs that are
5 available -- they cover the difference between
6 the legal rent in a rent-regulated program and a
7 third of the person's income. They freeze the
8 tenant contribution.
9 SCHE and DHE are general-purpose
10 property tax exemptions that -- they are local
11 opt-in. They allow localities to give up to a
12 50 percent reduction in property taxes, with
13 either a senior, somebody 62 years of age or
14 older, or somebody with a qualifying disability.
15 They are available -- most
16 localities in our state have adopted these
17 programs. And yet the maximum income for these
18 programs has been stuck at $50,000 since 2014.
19 In this budget we are raising that
20 number to 75,000. That will give a lot of
21 localities additional tools to protect seniors,
22 to protect people with disabilities, especially
23 in places where property taxes are going up
24 rapidly.
25 So I'm very excited that we're
5579
1 getting this done in this budget after 12 years.
2 And I would just encourage all of my colleagues
3 to think of this as something that they can work
4 with their localities and their constituents to
5 make sure we're addressing rising costs.
6 And with that, I vote aye.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
8 Kavanagh to be recorded in the affirmative.
9 Senator Walczyk to explain his vote.
10 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you,
11 Mr. President.
12 This is called the revenue bill.
13 Did you get enough? Did you get enough? Did you
14 get enough this year?
15 We do not have a problem with
16 revenue in the State of New York. New Yorkers
17 are taxed from the moment that they wake up to
18 the moment that they go to sleep. They are taxed
19 from the moment they're born until the moment
20 they die, and then thereafter.
21 You have enough creative ways to tax
22 New Yorkers. You don't need to add this many
23 more.
24 We have a spending problem in the
25 State of New York. Two hundred and sixty-eight
5580
1 billion dollars? You have far outpaced economic
2 growth in the State of New York with your
3 spending. And that will only lead to long-term
4 economic decline. Talk to any economist. You
5 pick on billionaires and businesses and all those
6 kinds of things? The biggest bully in the
7 State of New York is in these halls, not out
8 there, and we work for them.
9 I vote no.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
11 Walczyk to be recorded in the negative.
12 Senator Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick to
13 explain her vote.
14 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
15 Thank you, Mr. President.
16 There are some things here that are
17 attractive. There are some that we've left out.
18 We're not taxing tips, but we are still taxing
19 overtime. A clear way to put more money in the
20 pockets of our New Yorkers is allowing them to
21 keep the money they're earning.
22 What's most troubling to me, though,
23 in here is Part HH, where we're talking about
24 taxing people that are investing in New York City
25 real estate. The one thing in life, in my mind,
5581
1 that is guaranteed to increase in value is
2 real estate in New York City. And now we're
3 going to say that we're not allowing you to keep
4 that appreciation. We're going to tax you each
5 year on it and make sure that you come
6 out-of-pocket with money that you have to be
7 taxed on an asset that isn't realized.
8 We didn't, you know, talk about the
9 scenario where someone inherits property and now
10 they've got to figure out how to pay for it to
11 keep it. We're not encouraging property
12 ownership, which is a basic American dream.
13 And for those reasons,
14 Mr. President, I can't support this. I'll be
15 voting in the negative. Thank you.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
17 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick to be recorded in the
18 negative.
19 Senator Jackson to explain his vote.
20 SENATOR JACKSON: Thank you,
21 Mr. President.
22 I rise to represent people like
23 myself, working class in Northern Manhattan and
24 the Northwest Bronx. Understanding, looking at
25 things, the bottom line is that we want to be
5582
1 able to make sure that they're looking after --
2 when I say "they," all of us are looking after
3 the people that need our help. And that's
4 extremely important.
5 And that's what this is about:
6 Family helping family. And with that, I vote aye
7 on this bill.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
9 Jackson to be recorded in the affirmative.
10 Are there any other Senators wishing
11 to explain their vote?
12 Seeing and hearing none,
13 Senator Gounardes will close.
14 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Thank you,
15 Mr. President.
16 Nothing brings out the emotions and
17 passions and tensions that we all trade back and
18 forth than talking about money and talking about
19 taxes. Everyone's taxes are too high. You don't
20 like paying your taxes, I don't want to pay my
21 taxes. No one wants to pay taxes. No one likes
22 paying taxes. Taxes are high, right? People
23 want to keep all of their money. Sure, of
24 course.
25 You know what's more offensive to me
5583
1 than my obligation to pay taxes? Seeing someone
2 else not pay theirs. And when you see some of
3 the biggest corporations on this planet who, yes,
4 have a civic responsibility to contribute to the
5 greater good, just like I'm putting my pennies in
6 the pot, they too should put their pennies in the
7 pot.
8 And yes, because they have a lot
9 more pennies, they should put a lot more pennies
10 in the pot than I have to put or that you have to
11 put, Mr. President, or that any of my colleagues
12 on the other side of the aisle have to ante up.
13 When you see corporations that are
14 worth nearly a trillion dollars hoard that money
15 and say we're not going to lower costs for
16 consumers, we're going to buy up other companies
17 to raise costs because we want a monopoly on this
18 industry -- when you see corporations say, We're
19 not going to return lower prices to our
20 customers, we're going to give that money instead
21 to our shareholders and do stock buybacks and put
22 that money off the market and not contribute to
23 the greater good -- that's what should anger us.
24 That's what should rile up all of
25 our passions jointly here. It should not be this
5584
1 fight with each other. It should be the entities
2 and the individuals who are not paying their fair
3 share. The entities and the individuals who have
4 been incredibly lucky and incredibly blessed --
5 and yes, many of which have taken an incredible
6 amount of public dollars to get to where they are
7 today -- they should have a responsibility to all
8 of us. Just like we have a responsibility to
9 each other.
10 Mr. President, I paid my state taxes
11 this year. My tax dollars went to go support
12 roads in other parts of the state that I may
13 never drive on. They went to go support schools
14 whose classrooms I will never sit in. You don't
15 see me complaining about that. You don't see me
16 saying, Oh, woe is me that I have to pay for
17 someone else's education, that I have to pay for
18 someone else's hospital, that I have to,
19 God forbid, pay for someone else's healthcare
20 because if they should get sick, they should be
21 able to go to a place and get better.
22 That's what this bill fundamentally
23 is about. Because taxes are the prices we pay
24 for a civilized society, as Oliver Wendell Holmes
25 reminds us. That's what this is all about.
5585
1 And at a time when the federal
2 government has given away the store to the
3 largest corporate entities on this planet, and to
4 the people who have made more money than any of
5 us in this room could ever fathom, we have an
6 obligation to protect and invest in New Yorkers.
7 We're not trying to demonize hard
8 work. We're not trying to go after the person
9 who's scrimped and saved their way to the top.
10 My father was the first in his family to go to
11 college. My grandfather was a washing-machine
12 repairman. My great-grandparents came here more
13 than a hundred years ago on a boat, like many of
14 our families did. It's not about demonizing that
15 journey.
16 But you know what my parents taught
17 me, you know what my grandparents taught me? As
18 important as it is for you to reach your hand up
19 the ladder and keep striving, never forget to
20 turn around and keep your other hand back to pull
21 someone up alongside you. That's what people are
22 forgetting.
23 And if you are so lucky enough to be
24 in the 1 percent in New York, which for the
25 record is making more than $900,000 -- if you are
5586
1 so lucky at a time when one in four of my
2 constituents can't put enough food on their table
3 this week, you have a responsibility to reach
4 your hand back and say, I too want to help you.
5 And that is why, Mr. President, this
6 revenue bill is so important. It's why I'm proud
7 of the work that this Majority did in crafting a
8 tax package that we know will help support and
9 sustain the people who will make New York as
10 great as it is.
11 And that is why I proudly vote aye.
12 Thank you.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
14 Gounardes to be recorded in the affirmative.
15 Announce the results.
16 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
17 Calendar 1334, voting in the negative are
18 Senators Ashby, Borrello, Brisport,
19 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Chan, Gallivan, Gonzalez,
20 Griffo, Helming, Lanza, Martins, Mattera, Murray,
21 Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, Stec,
22 Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.
23 Ayes, 39. Nays, 23.
24 Oh, sorry. Also Senator Salazar.
25 Ayes, 38. Nays, 24.
5587
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
2 is passed.
3 Senator Gianaris.
4 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
5 I'm so looking forward to the Senator Walczyk
6 tax-hike bill for Herkimer County tomorrow, I'll
7 say that much, after we finish that debate.
8 Let's move on to Calendar Number
9 1331, please.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Calendar
11 1331, the Secretary will read.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 1331, Senate Print 9003D, an act making
14 appropriations for the support of government.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
16 Martins, why do you rise?
17 SENATOR MARTINS: Good afternoon,
18 Mr. President. I was wondering if the sponsor
19 would yield for a few questions, starting with
20 DHCR.
21 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
22 if I may, because this appropriations bill
23 doesn't have parts like the other bills did, if
24 we just mention the subject matter, I think that
25 would help us direct the questions appropriately.
5588
1 Starting with the MTA,
2 Senator Martins?
3 SENATOR MARTINS: DHCR. DHCR.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Subject
5 matter of DHCR.
6 SENATOR GIANARIS: We are
7 retrieving the Senator on that issue.
8 SENATOR MARTINS: I will wait. I
9 will move on.
10 SENATOR GIANARIS: He's entering --
11 he's entering now.
12 Senator Kavanagh, please,
13 Mr. President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
15 Kavanagh, do you yield for some questions?
16 SENATOR KAVANAGH: I do, thank you.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Do you
18 yield to questions on DHCR?
19 The sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
21 Senator, I notice that there is
22 funding in the budget this year for -- to combat
23 homelessness. Can you tell us how much
24 additional funding there is in the budget this
25 year to address homelessness, housing insecurity?
5589
1 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
2 Mr. President, that's a harder question to answer
3 because there is funding for homelessness in a
4 variety of portions of the budget.
5 The Office of Temporary Disability
6 Assistance has funding both to prevent
7 homelessness and also to provide capital for
8 additional facilities to house homeless people,
9 both in permanent and temporary settings.
10 There are a number of programs
11 within HCR that are also -- can address
12 homelessness.
13 I'm not sure if there's a particular
14 provision that my colleague is concerned about or
15 he's just looking for an overall summary.
16 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
17 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
18 yield.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
20 sponsor yield?
21 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
22 Mr. President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: Is it fair to say
5590
1 that there's additional funding to address
2 housing insecurity and homelessness in general?
3 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
4 Mr. President, I would say much of the funding in
5 the budget in housing is intended to strengthen
6 the quality of the housing stock, the stability
7 of our housing stock, and to provide new housing.
8 And of course those are critical parts of
9 reducing homelessness.
10 So I'd say most of -- I'd say most
11 of the housing budget is related to stability and
12 reducing the housing need, which is a direct
13 contributor to homelessness.
14 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
15 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
16 yield.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
18 sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
20 Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR MARTINS: And included in
24 the budget is funding for things like shelters
25 and -- homeless shelters in New York City and in
5591
1 other parts of the state?
2 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
3 Mr. President, yes.
4 But most of the funding for shelters
5 is not -- like if it's a transitional facility or
6 what we typically think of as a homeless shelter,
7 or funding to put people up in hotels, which is
8 an increasingly common way of localities
9 addressing homelessness, that is typically not
10 part of the permanent housing capital budget that
11 runs through HCR. Most of that funding does not
12 run through HCR, it runs through OTDA and other
13 agencies.
14 But there's quite a lot of it, both
15 at the -- there's quite a lot of money spent at
16 the local levels by all our localities as well as
17 through the state, but I don't have those figures
18 at my fingertips. And again, they don't run
19 through my committee or the agencies that I do
20 work with.
21 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
22 Mr. President.
23 And I want to thank the Senator for
24 your answers.
25 I do have some questions on
5592
1 commuter-rail MTA funding.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:
3 Commuter-rail MTA. Senator Gianaris.
4 SENATOR GIANARIS: That would be
5 Senator Comrie.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
7 Comrie will be back momentarily.
8 SENATOR MARTINS: Okay. I have
9 some questions, Mr. President, on congestion
10 pricing.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:
12 Congestion pricing. Would that be fair to say
13 that would also be Senator Comrie,
14 Senator Gianaris?
15 SENATOR GIANARIS: I believe so.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: That
17 would also be Senator Comrie, Senator Martins.
18 SENATOR MARTINS: That's okay,
19 because I also have questions, Mr. President, on
20 assistance, miscellaneous financial assistance to
21 municipalities.
22 SENATOR GIANARIS: I think that
23 would be Senator Martinez. Perhaps we can take
24 those.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
5593
1 Martinez, do you yield to some questions?
2 SENATOR MARTINEZ: I do,
3 Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
5 Martinez yields.
6 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
7 Senator.
8 So I notice in the budget that there
9 is a significant amount of assistance
10 specifically being paid to cities across the
11 entire state as one-shots. Can you speak to
12 that?
13 (Pause.)
14 SENATOR MARTINS: Mr. President,
15 through you, perhaps it would be easier if I just
16 went through them one at a time, if it's easier
17 for the Senator.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
19 Martinez, Senator Martins is willing to go
20 through them one at a time. I think that she is
21 compiling her answer, if you -- you've exercised
22 great patience, Senator Martins.
23 Senator Martinez.
24 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Mr. President,
25 yes. If I may, we -- okay, so for Buffalo there
5594
1 is $55 million. For Yonkers, it's $40 million.
2 For Rochester and Syracuse, it's $20 million, as
3 well as for Albany. There is 2 million for
4 Auburn and there is 10 million for Mount Vernon.
5 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
6 Mr. President. If the sponsor would continue to
7 yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR MARTINEZ: I do.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR MARTINS: There's also a
14 significant sum going to the City of New York, is
15 there not?
16 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Mr. President,
17 there is.
18 SENATOR MARTINS: So with regard to
19 Albany, Buffalo, Yonkers, Rochester, Syracuse,
20 and Mount Vernon in particular --
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
22 Martins, are you on the bill or is the sponsor
23 yielding?
24 SENATOR MARTINS: Mr. President, if
25 the sponsor will continue to yield.
5595
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR MARTINS: With regard to
7 those cities -- I'm going to exclude New York
8 City for now. Cities outside of New York City.
9 Is there a financial control board that has been
10 set up in order to oversee the administering of
11 these monies that are being given to these
12 municipalities?
13 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Through you,
14 Mr. President, each of the municipalities must
15 show their deficit in order to receive this
16 funding.
17 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
18 Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to
19 yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: So is there a
5596
1 requirement that they demonstrate that they have
2 closed the deficit this year as a condition of
3 receiving the funding?
4 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Mr. President,
5 through you. Each municipality has to
6 demonstrate that they have this deficiency in
7 order to receive the funding.
8 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
9 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
10 yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR MARTINEZ: I do.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR MARTINS: From what I
17 understand, each municipality has to attest that
18 the money they're receiving is going to be used
19 to pay their bills. Is that right?
20 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Through you,
21 Mr. President, yes.
22 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
23 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
24 yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
5597
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR MARTINEZ: I do.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR MARTINS: It is also my
6 understanding that aside from attesting and
7 merely saying that I'm going to take this
8 $40 million or $20 million that you've giving me
9 and use it to pay the bills that I owe, that
10 there is no structural requirement on the
11 municipality to demonstrate that they've actually
12 balanced their budget as a result of receiving
13 this one-shot.
14 Isn't that also correct?
15 (Pause.)
16 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Through you,
17 Mr. President. First of all, without this
18 funding they would not be able to pay their
19 bills.
20 And second of all, through this
21 funding, it will not close the gap that they
22 have. It is just an assistance.
23 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
24 Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to
25 yield.
5598
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR MARTINEZ: I do.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR MARTINS: Senator, I don't
7 know -- but maybe you can help me. With regard
8 to each and every one of these cities -- each and
9 every one of these cities, each and every one of
10 these city councils, do you know what party is
11 the majority party on those governments and in
12 the city mayoralty for each and every one of
13 these cities?
14 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Through you,
15 Mr. President, I do.
16 (Laughter.)
17 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
18 Mr. President, if the sponsor would perhaps share
19 that information with the rest of us?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR MARTINEZ: I do.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: Would you care to
5599
1 tell us, Senator, which party they belong to?
2 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Yes, they are
3 Democratic.
4 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you. Thank
5 you, Senator Martinez. I appreciate it.
6 Mr. President, through you, if I can
7 return to the questions on MTA.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Questions
9 on the MTA would be directed to Senator Comrie.
10 Senator Comrie, do you yield?
11 SENATOR COMRIE: I yield.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR MARTINS: Senator Comrie,
15 great to see you, as always.
16 SENATOR COMRIE: Good to see you,
17 Senator Martins. Thank you.
18 SENATOR MARTINS: So, Senator, I
19 noticed that the total state operating assistance
20 that the MTA is to receive is going up
21 significantly. Roughly, can you tell us how much
22 money the MTA is receiving from New York State in
23 this budget?
24 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you.
25 Through you, Mr. President. Technically, zero.
5600
1 There's a dry appropriation in the
2 budget that has been happening for the MTA for
3 the last few years, but it is not drawn down
4 because they get other monies. So what you see
5 in the revenue budget is not reflective of what's
6 actually happening with the MTA.
7 The MTA is getting 4.5 billion for
8 STOA funds this year, and that's all.
9 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
10 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
11 yield.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
13 sponsor yield?
14 SENATOR COMRIE: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR MARTINS: When it comes to
18 commuter rail, I notice that there is a decrease
19 in funding as opposed to all of the other areas
20 of transit. Commuter rail, including Long Island
21 Rail Road, Metro-North, it appears is losing a
22 little over $109 million. Is that correct?
23 SENATOR COMRIE: No. That's not --
24 through you, Mr. President, that's not -- that's
25 capital money that you're talking about, and most
5601
1 were for projects that were mostly done in
2 Long Island. I think there are only about three
3 stations that still need to get handicapped
4 access.
5 But most of that money, that
6 $109 million, was for capital spending, not
7 expense.
8 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
9 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
10 yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR COMRIE: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR MARTINS: So even though it
17 is capital money, every other facet of mass
18 transit is continuing to receive the same
19 amount -- frankly, all of them receiving more
20 with regard to investments in their
21 infrastructure.
22 I'm sure you're aware, of course, of
23 the size and scope of the Long Island Rail Road
24 and its system and the needs, infrastructure
25 needs that the railroad has not only with regard
5602
1 to maintenance and rehab, but also an ongoing
2 effort to convert trains and electrify certain
3 rails.
4 Can you tell us why at this time it
5 was felt it was necessary, given the size of the
6 budget, the amount of money that's being spent,
7 the additional spending that is in that budget,
8 why have we decided to cut back with regard to
9 commuter rails, in particular the Long Island
10 Rail Road and Metro-North?
11 SENATOR COMRIE: Through you,
12 Mr. President, we're just talking about this
13 capital plan that's ending now. We're not
14 talking about the future planning that's needed
15 for the Long Island Rail Road and the commuter
16 rail system.
17 Clearly there is need for
18 re-electrification, especially the different
19 parts of the Long Island Rail Road, the
20 Suffolk County pieces. That will be in the new
21 capital plan.
22 This capital plan is only closing
23 out the projects that were planned for, what was
24 it, '20 to '24? 2020 to 2024. There's a new
25 capital plan that will be developed.
5603
1 I hope to talk with all of you to --
2 I realize the needs for Long Island especially to
3 electrify and eliminate diesel rail in the new
4 capital plan. As I said earlier, there are only
5 about three stations that need to get handicapped
6 access. We did third rail and we did the other
7 major improvements.
8 There's also money going into -- the
9 Governor's pledged money to fix the hubs, the
10 major hubs in especially the Jamaica Station, to
11 allow for faster access for Long Islanders as
12 well.
13 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
14 Mr. President, through you -- on the bill.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
16 Martins on the bill.
17 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
18 Senator. Thank you.
19 You know, the questions I was asking
20 were on STOA. It was monies for support of
21 transit and not on capital. So I'll just leave
22 it at that, not to belabor the point.
23 But if I could ask some questions
24 regarding Medicaid and Medicaid spending.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Medicaid
5604
1 and Medicaid spending? My assumption, that would
2 be Senator Rivera.
3 Senator Rivera, do you yield?
4 SENATOR RIVERA: I do.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
6 Senator yields.
7 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
8 Senator.
9 So I see that there's an increase in
10 Medicaid spending this year -- it's quite a group
11 you have around you, Senator. You don't need all
12 those people. It's fine, we're going to be okay.
13 Through you, Mr. President. I
14 notice that there's an increase in Medicaid
15 spending this year. Can you tell us, over the
16 course of the last, I don't know, eight years or
17 so, how much has Medicaid spending increased in
18 New York State, roughly?
19 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
20 Mr. President. Since we are talking about the
21 bill in front of us, we are just prepared to
22 really answer as far as what the expenditures
23 were increased between last year and this year,
24 if there were changes in that.
25 But I cannot -- I mean, if you give
5605
1 me five minutes and Google, I might be able to
2 tell you. But just right here, right now, I
3 couldn't exactly do that.
4 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
5 Mr. President. If the sponsor would continue to
6 yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
8 sponsor yield?
9 SENATOR RIVERA: As long as he
10 doesn't need me to go to Google, I will.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR MARTINS: I wouldn't do
14 that to you, Senator.
15 So is it just fair to say that we
16 have increased spending, the state has increased
17 spending for Medicaid over the course of the last
18 several years?
19 (Pause.)
20 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
21 Mr. President, the answer is yes.
22 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
23 And through you, Mr. President, if
24 the sponsor would continue to yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
5606
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR MARTINS: Just to your
6 knowledge, is the number of people enrolled in
7 Medicaid decreasing or has it remained flat or
8 has it gone up over that time? If you know.
9 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
10 Mr. President. Although I can't tell you an
11 exact number, what I can tell you is that the
12 numbers did go up during COVID and since then,
13 since 2020, have gone down.
14 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
15 Mr. President. On the bill.
16 Thank you, Senator Rivera.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
18 Martins on the bill.
19 SENATOR MARTINS: You know, we talk
20 about, Mr. President, the need to properly target
21 the budget. We talk about -- all the time we
22 talk about how we need to help people. And we
23 heard colleagues talk about giving everyone a
24 hand up and not just pulling themselves up along
25 the way. And, Mr. President, I'm a huge believer
5607
1 in that. That's my history. Certainly that's my
2 family history. And I believe very strongly that
3 we have a responsibility not only to take care of
4 ourselves, but to make sure that we help others.
5 But we also have a responsibility in
6 this chamber and in government to make sure, when
7 we start throwing around numbers and we start
8 talking about the need to increase taxes and we
9 talk about how we need more revenue and we need
10 to tax people, that we make sure that we actually
11 see whether or not the money that's being
12 appropriated and the money that's being channeled
13 and marshaled is actually making a difference.
14 So here are some facts. We've spent
15 money and we continue to spend money and you've
16 heard me before and you'll hear me again tell you
17 all about how, since the Democrats took the
18 Majority in this chamber, spending has gone up in
19 this state budget by over $100 billion. That's a
20 hundred billion dollars.
21 And people ask me -- I'm sure they
22 ask you as well, Mr. President -- what do you
23 have to show for it? Tell me something you've
24 fixed. Tell me where you made a difference. We
25 still have a homeless crisis. It's shameful.
5608
1 It's horrible. We're spending the money, we're
2 making the commitment. Where is the oversight
3 and responsibility?
4 Because the one thing people get
5 upset over -- yeah, they hate paying taxes.
6 Sure, they want to make sure that their neighbor
7 is paying their fair share as well. But they
8 sure as hell don't want to see government wasting
9 their money, throwing it away and not actually
10 fixing the problem, time and time again.
11 We have a habit in this house to
12 throw money at problems. So yes, homelessness,
13 mental health, opioid crisis, housing, NYCHA.
14 Yeah, we'll talk about it. We'll blame someone
15 else. We'll tax someone else. We'll throw some
16 more money at it. And time and again we come up
17 short.
18 The reality, Mr. President, is that
19 Medicaid rolls are coming down. That's a great
20 sign. Because you don't measure the success of a
21 society by the number of people who are on public
22 assistance. You measure the measure of a society
23 and the success of a society by the number of
24 people who are actually leaving public assistance
25 and no longer rely on government to make ends
5609
1 meet. That's what we should strive for.
2 I don't know a single parent who's
3 turned and told their child, I hope you grow up
4 one day to go on public assistance so someone can
5 help you. No. Our job is to make sure people
6 get off public assistance and are able to support
7 themselves and to create policies that create
8 jobs, create success, and create growth.
9 So it's a good sign that people are
10 coming off of Medicaid, and I'm happy to see it.
11 The concern I have, and the concern everyone in
12 this chamber should have, is as more and more
13 people are coming off Medicaid, why is it that
14 our spending for Medicaid continues to go up,
15 astronomically?
16 Now, we were always the highest,
17 most generous, I would say -- and rightfully
18 so -- state when it comes to providing benefits
19 because we care and we want to make sure we take
20 care of those who are less fortunate. But,
21 Mr. President, why is it that as those numbers
22 are coming down -- and I'm going to give you a
23 statistic. You know what, it will wait. Someone
24 else will give it to you. But the numbers are
25 staggering.
5610
1 So sure, your mantra is tax the
2 rich. People aren't paying their fair share.
3 The money is there. You're just not spending it
4 right. You're throwing it away. You're not
5 showing responsibility. People are
6 accountable -- maybe it's the person on the
7 second floor. Maybe it's the Governor, it's her
8 fault because she isn't doing her job. She is
9 the Governor of the state. She's got a
10 $270 billion budget and spent a hundred billion
11 dollars more over the last eight years and has
12 absolutely nothing to show for it.
13 So let's talk about this budget. It
14 taxes people. It doesn't properly invest those
15 monies. It doesn't put the money where it needs
16 to be in order to spur growth. We're not
17 supporting the business community, and we're not
18 giving opportunities to create those jobs that
19 should be there and aren't.
20 Just a couple of years ago,
21 Mr. President -- and I know, I'm wrapping up --
22 we had the opportunity in this chamber, in this
23 state, to bring in a large more. You may all
24 remember it: 50,000 jobs, $100,000 apiece.
25 Would have been made a real difference in our
5611
1 economies. They even thought about and talked
2 about placing that headquarters in Queens, right
3 in one of the boroughs in New York City.
4 Think about the opportunities that
5 would have given not only for the City of
6 New York, but for the suburbs of the city. Think
7 about the economic opportunities that that would
8 have provided for this state. Again, lifting
9 people up, providing those opportunities, helping
10 all of us succeed. And it certainly would have
11 been an opportunity for the state.
12 Unfortunately, it didn't happen. I
13 don't know why. Maybe there's someone here in
14 the room can tell us. Maybe not. But the
15 reality is 50,000 jobs are gone, economic
16 opportunity is gone, because we didn't take the
17 opportunity when it was presented.
18 We don't get there by spending. We
19 get there by properly investing in the future.
20 Mr. President, this budget doesn't do that.
21 I'll be voting no.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
23 you, Senator Martins.
24 Senator Gianaris on the bill.
25 SENATOR GIANARIS: Thank you,
5612
1 Mr. President.
2 I think Senator Martins was
3 referring to me, so I wanted to get up and be
4 responsive to his questions. The funny thing
5 is -- and, you know, he's very roundabout. I
6 wish he would just say what he's trying to say.
7 He's referring, of course, to Amazon trying to
8 come to Queens and thankfully being rejected.
9 And the funny thing is that he
10 thinks that's a criticism. Tells you all you
11 need to know about where he's coming from and
12 where the Minority in this chamber is coming
13 from. They'd rather give billions of dollars to
14 the richest company on earth for a headquarters
15 that would never be built -- as is evident if we
16 just look over at Virginia, which was foolish
17 enough to go down that road with them. The
18 project's frozen in place, jobs promised not
19 appearing, and Amazon laying off tens of
20 thousands of executives around the country in
21 deference to AI.
22 So you tell me what you think would
23 happen if we let him build a heliport and a giant
24 building on the waterfront, prime waterfront of
25 Queens. That would be sitting empty. Maybe the
5613
1 heliport would be used by Jeff Bezos, but the
2 rest of it wouldn't. The jobs wouldn't be there.
3 Our money would be gone.
4 You want to talk about spending too
5 much? How about corporate subsidies? How about
6 that. You know, it's funny, because I was going
7 to speak regardless, but then you threw that in
8 there, which was just entertaining.
9 But I was also going to point out --
10 because, you know, this is the role I play
11 here -- because we talk about spending wildly,
12 about the tens of billions added to this
13 state budget over the years when the Republicans
14 were in charge. It's easy to sit there when you
15 don't actually make decisions about what we vote
16 on and just criticize whatever we come up with.
17 But when you had the chance to do it right, you
18 spent. By your own characterization, you spent
19 wildly. You just spent it on things like
20 subsidizing the Amazons of the world instead of
21 helping working people in this state.
22 So I think we've done this right.
23 As I repeatedly point out, the people think we do
24 it right, which is why we're sitting on this side
25 of the chamber and you're sitting on that side.
5614
1 So we'll continue doing what we think the people
2 want us to do. We'll continue winning elections,
3 we'll continue sitting in the Majority, and
4 you'll continue just harping about it when we're
5 on the floor.
6 Thank you, Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
8 you, Senator Gianaris.
9 Senator Murray, why do you rise?
10 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you,
11 Mr. President.
12 We can break away from the
13 one-on-one and go to a team game here, if I could
14 speak to someone regarding the MTA.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
16 Murray playing five-on-five. Senator Comrie, do
17 you yield?
18 SENATOR COMRIE: I yield.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
20 Comrie yields.
21 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you,
22 Senator. Through you, Mr. President.
23 I notice that there is funding here,
24 $2.2 billion, and the 2.2 billion is
25 appropriations from the Dedicated Mass
5615
1 Transportation Trust Fund and the MTA Financial
2 Assistance Fund. However, this does not go into
3 effect until April 1, 2027, then expires on
4 March 31st of 2028.
5 What is the purpose of these
6 appropriations if they don't take effect in this
7 budget?
8 SENATOR COMRIE: As I said earlier
9 to Senator Martins, this is a dry appropriation.
10 This is just an emergency fund in case -- excuse
11 me. Through you, Mr. President. In case we
12 don't get a budget done and there's no
13 appropriations, this would be an emergency fund
14 for the MTA.
15 It hasn't been used. It's been in
16 the last three budgets, and it does not move
17 forward.
18 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
19 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
20 yield?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR COMRIE: I yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 sponsor yields.
5616
1 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
2 Through you, Mr. President.
3 So yes, in the language from the
4 Executive Budget it said it also includes
5 2.2 billion of contingent appropriations, as you
6 said, for the MTA. These appropriations from the
7 Dedicated Mass Transportation Trust Fund and the
8 MTA Financial Assistance Fund would be used to
9 ensure continuation of aid payments to the MTA
10 during fiscal year 2028 in the event of a
11 temporary lack of new appropriations due to a
12 late budget.
13 So in other words, we're putting
14 over $2 billion into this budget on a gamble --
15 and a pretty safe bet, I might add -- that the
16 budget next year is going to be late. Do we do
17 this for any other authority, agency, department,
18 conference, anything? Do we have billions of
19 dollars set aside in case we don't get our job
20 done and we have a late budget?
21 SENATOR COMRIE: Through you,
22 Mr. President, we have extenders that normally
23 fund those agencies now.
24 SENATOR MURRAY: I'm sorry, I
25 couldn't hear.
5617
1 SENATOR COMRIE: I'm sorry. We
2 have extenders that normally fund those agencies
3 now. So if there is an emergency, through the
4 extenders that have been done -- I think we've
5 done 15 extenders so far this year. So that's
6 how that would get done.
7 This is just an emergency
8 appropriation, it's a dry appropriation, which
9 means that there's no money actually put in the
10 budget. It only would be done through an
11 emergency extender.
12 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
13 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
14 yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR COMRIE: I yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
21 Through you, Mr. President.
22 That's funny, because that -- when
23 we were in conference and we were going over
24 this, I said the same thing. I said, Didn't we
25 pass 15 extenders so far and in some of those
5618
1 extenders was money for the MTA?
2 SENATOR COMRIE: Right.
3 SENATOR MURRAY: And they said,
4 Yeah, that's a different department. That's --
5 you know, you've got capital, you've got
6 operations, you've got all these different areas
7 where we fund this.
8 And so -- but we're still setting
9 aside 2.2 billion. And yeah, it's on paper, but
10 that's still 2.2 billion set aside now that we're
11 not even expecting to use. It's kind of there in
12 case we don't do our job next year.
13 So like I said, no other agency --
14 or we don't do that for any other agencies or
15 corporations or authorities or anything.
16 But in this budget, is there
17 anything addressing their plan, the MTA's plan to
18 tackle toll and fare evasion?
19 SENATOR COMRIE: Through you,
20 Mr. President, not -- that's not part of this
21 budget.
22 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
23 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
24 yield?
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
5619
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR COMRIE: I yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
6 Through you, Mr. President.
7 So a couple of years ago when we
8 came up with -- first it was the MTA payroll tax
9 to help bail out the MTA. Then it was congestion
10 pricing to help bail out the MTA. The MTA made a
11 promise to find $600 million per year in savings,
12 in cost savings, totaling $3 billion over
13 five years.
14 Is there anything in this budget
15 that shows that they are living up to that
16 promise?
17 SENATOR COMRIE: Through you,
18 Mr. President. They have been living up to that
19 promise. They have demonstrated over the past
20 couple of years that they've been saving almost a
21 billion dollars a year in savings.
22 They've been working -- we've
23 created other opportunities for them to be able
24 to save money by the way that we've changed
25 contracting. And so they have been meeting those
5620
1 goals. It's not reflected in this part of the
2 budget, but it has been reflected in their annual
3 report.
4 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you,
5 Mr. President. On the bill.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
7 Murray on the bill.
8 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you,
9 Senator Comrie. Appreciate it.
10 So I think maybe we have different
11 definitions of savings, because it seems like we
12 keep giving the MTA more and more and more. So
13 if they're saving so much, they shouldn't need as
14 much as what we keep giving. But we do, we give
15 over and over.
16 And the reason I asked about the
17 toll and fare evasion is because year after year
18 after year I've gotten up and talked about it,
19 and I've talked about how, year after year after
20 year there's been an increase in the amount of
21 money that is lost by the MTA through toll and
22 fare evasion. Now, keep in mind this is money
23 they are supposed to have in their hands.
24 Now, there's a Senator previously
25 who during his explaining his vote said that
5621
1 nothing makes him angrier than when he's paying
2 his taxes and someone else is not. Well, that
3 would fall in line with this.
4 Because I was sitting on the train,
5 I went into the city to meet my grandson this
6 past weekend. I was sitting on the train and I
7 paid my $16 for the one-way off-peak fare. And
8 it's off-peak, and that's important because I'm
9 sitting there and across from me was a woman with
10 her headset on and she's got her phone and all
11 this, and the conductor comes to check the
12 tickets. Well, I give him my ticket. I paid for
13 my ticket.
14 But then she hands him -- has the
15 electronic ticket. Well, to anybody that knows,
16 when you ride the LIRR, if you do your e-ticket,
17 you have to activate it. If you don't activate
18 it right away, it takes time.
19 So what happens is in order to get
20 your free trip, you don't activate it till the
21 conductor comes by, because it will take too much
22 time. Now, I've got to say, God bless this
23 conductor, she did a great job. She stood right
24 there and waited. And waited. And waited. The
25 only reason she could do that was because it was
5622
1 off-peak on a weekend.
2 Had this been rush hour, she
3 couldn't do it. She would not have been able to
4 sit and wait for this ticket to activate, which
5 meant they would have gotten a free ride.
6 And, yeah, I was fuming a little. I
7 was really happy when she ended up waiting long
8 enough -- and it took a good four or five minutes
9 for that thing to activate. And she stood and
10 waited the whole time. But she ended up getting
11 her to pay that fare.
12 But you know what? It happens day
13 in and day out, on the trains, on the buses, on
14 the subways where people aren't paying their
15 fare. They're not paying their fair share, and
16 we do nothing about it.
17 So what did the MTA do a year or so
18 ago? Spent $35 million to hire a Pennsylvania
19 company, Allied Universal Security Services.
20 Just a week or two ago, anybody who saw this
21 video, it was an employee of Allied Universal
22 Security Services who found a student card on the
23 ground and was using it. The people would come
24 and instead of paying their fare, they were
25 giving her cash. She reached through and used
5623
1 the card and swiped them in, again and again, and
2 she's pocketing the cash. And what are they
3 getting? Basically a free ride.
4 That's what the MTA did to stop fare
5 evasion. They hired a company so incompetent
6 that they're actually -- their employees were
7 caught on video. And this wasn't the first
8 employee, by the way, caught on video not
9 stopping fare evasion, but helping more fare
10 evasion happen.
11 Now, when I say that -- so that gets
12 frustrating enough, because the combined amount
13 of money lost in 2025 through toll and fare
14 evasion -- like I said, the numbers have been
15 going up year after year after year. But last
16 year, $1.1 billion in lost revenue. So our
17 answer? Let's give them more.
18 So I asked about this $2.2 billion
19 that really isn't. It's the hedging of the bet
20 that we won't have an on-time budget.
21 Two-point-two billion. And it's interesting
22 because while we said that 2.2 billion is just
23 paper and it's not really spent, it's an increase
24 of 42.3 million from last year. An increase on a
25 line that we're not really using.
5624
1 So I got curious. I just glanced
2 through this budget. The Joseph P. Dwyer Fund,
3 $8 million. That funding's frozen. We didn't
4 increase that. Prevention of domestic violence,
5 12.4 million we've allocated, that also frozen.
6 We didn't increase that. The Department of
7 Veterans' Services, 17.2 million. That's
8 actually a 4.28 percent decrease in spending from
9 last year. The Office of Victim Services,
10 $325.8 million, frozen.
11 My point is this. We'll increase a
12 fund that we don't really even use, we'll
13 increase funding by over $42 million. And yet
14 these important programs, frozen or cut in this
15 budget.
16 Now, the MTA, as Senator Comrie
17 rightly pointed out, that there's different
18 avenues of funding for the MTA. So you've got
19 your capital program, you've got your
20 operational, you've got all these different
21 places. But there's also different revenue
22 sources. How many revenue sources, you ask?
23 Well, let me see. They get the revenue sources
24 from fares and tolls.
25 Now, it's funny, I talked about the
5625
1 fare and toll evasion. It used to be the fares
2 and tolls brought in more than half of their
3 revenue -- in fact, close to 60 percent of their
4 revenue came from that. They've lost so much
5 it's now less than 40 percent of their budget.
6 So we put an MTA payroll tax in
7 place to help them out. Of course we've also
8 dedicated a portion of regional sales tax that
9 goes to the MTA. Oh, yeah, and then the mortgage
10 recording tax in the MTA region goes to the MTA.
11 There's the petroleum business tax we tax the
12 petroleum companies, and that goes to the MTA.
13 The for-hire-vehicle surcharges -- you know, the
14 taxis and the ridesharing services. There's a
15 tax there too that goes to the MTA. High-value
16 real estate transfer taxes -- yup, that goes to
17 the MTA. Internet marketplace sales tax, that
18 goes to the MTA. Federal grants -- have you
19 looked at your mobile phone bill? There's a line
20 there that also goes to, you got it, the MTA.
21 Fines and fees, traffic enforcement cameras, and
22 of course congestion pricing.
23 A funny little fact about congestion
24 pricing. That's not bringing in revenue for now.
25 That's not helping us with the MTA. It's not
5626
1 paying for operational expenses. It's actually
2 paying for the debt from not this capital
3 program, but the 2020-to-2024 capital program.
4 All the money that we get from congestion pricing
5 goes to pay for the bonding that we did, the
6 borrowing for that capital program. That's how
7 far back and how bad the MTA is at dealing with
8 its money.
9 And then of course the downstate
10 casino licenses. We had to find another revenue
11 source for the little MTA, right? So all of the
12 money from the licenses from all the downstate
13 casinos goes to the MTA.
14 So, yeah, I also looked up other
15 areas like real estate or advertising income.
16 And it just reminded me of a Comptroller's audit
17 from I think it was 2010, where the Long Island
18 Rail Road has all these billboards along the way
19 and they sell the advertising space. There was
20 actually a year they forgot to charge for that
21 advertising. The whole year, they forgot to
22 collect it -- I don't know if they forgot to bill
23 them or what, but lost close to a million dollars
24 in funding.
25 This is who we're giving more
5627
1 revenue to year after year after year after year.
2 That, my friends, is the definition of failure,
3 and is just one of the reasons that I cannot
4 support this budget.
5 Thank you, Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
7 you, Senator Murray.
8 Senator Rhoads, why do you rise?
9 SENATOR RHOADS: I was hoping that
10 the sponsor would yield to a couple of questions
11 regarding the Department of Health.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
13 Department of Health, that would likely be
14 Senator Rivera.
15 Senator Rivera, do you yield?
16 SENATOR RIVERA: Yup.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
18 Senator yields.
19 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
20 this question, is this about NUMC or just health
21 in general?
22 SENATOR RHOADS: Well, it's
23 about -- one about VAPAP funding and then about
24 NUMC.
25 SENATOR GIANARIS: Okay. Senator
5628
1 Rivera can start you off. When you turn to NUMC,
2 we have a different Senator.
3 SENATOR RHOADS: Okay, not a
4 problem.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
6 you. Senator Rivera yields.
7 Senator Rhoads, you have the floor.
8 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you, I
9 appreciate it.
10 Senator Rivera -- through you,
11 Mr. President -- I notice that the
12 Health Department budget has an additional
13 500 million for distressed hospitals through the
14 VAPAP program. Is that correct?
15 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes. Through you,
16 Mr. President, yes.
17 SENATOR RHOADS: And will the
18 sponsor yield to another question.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
20 sponsor yield?
21 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR RHOADS: The VAPAP program,
25 can you explain what that does?
5629
1 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
2 Mr. President. VAPAP stands for Vital Access
3 Provider Program. The issue here, as we know,
4 and we know in every corner of our state, not
5 just in the City of New York but across the
6 state -- upstate, Long Island, you name it --
7 there are a lot of institutions that are really
8 close to the brink. That's a constant thing.
9 So VAPAP is basically a pot of money
10 for operational expenses. There's a separate pot
11 that's for capital expenses. But that is to help
12 institutions, hospital across the state that are
13 in dire need of assistance. And as we know, this
14 is a constant need across the State of New York
15 and every corner of it.
16 SENATOR RHOADS: And will the
17 sponsor continue to yield?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
19 sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you.
24 Through you, Mr. President.
25 The VAPAP funding for this year, is
5630
1 there any particular hospitals that are
2 designated to receive VAPAP funding as part of
3 this budget?
4 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
5 Mr. President, that's not the way this program
6 works. As opposed to having particular
7 institutions be named in the budget, it is a pot
8 of money that is used at the discretion of the
9 Executive and the Department of Health based on
10 the needs of particular institutions throughout
11 the year.
12 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you. And
13 will the sponsor continue to yield?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
15 sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR RHOADS: There have in
20 prior budgets, however, been instances where
21 specific hospitals -- and I'll draw an example
22 for SUNY Downstate last year, which received both
23 capital funding as well as direct assistance, I
24 believe in excess of a billion dollars.
25 There are situations where hospitals
5631
1 do receive direct funding in the budget separate
2 and apart from an allocation of VAPAP, correct?
3 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
4 Mr. President, certainly, but not from VAPAP. It
5 would be other pots created specifically for the
6 purpose that is named.
7 In the case that you -- through you,
8 Mr. President, that our colleague is referencing,
9 there was a big situation in Brooklyn where
10 SUNY Downstate was in dire need of some -- of
11 restructuring, and so there was a whole
12 conversation about putting money directly into a
13 pot that would benefit that institution.
14 But again, it is a separate pot
15 apart from the Vital Access Program.
16 SENATOR RHOADS: And will the
17 sponsor continue to yield?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
19 sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR RHOADS: Last year as part
24 of the state budget the Nassau University Medical
25 Center, which is run by Nassau Health Care
5632
1 Corporation, was the subject of a takeover by the
2 state that was engineered as part of the budget,
3 is that correct?
4 SENATOR RIVERA: Mr. President,
5 through you. I believe that if there's questions
6 that are particularly in reference to this
7 institution, it is not an institution that is in
8 my district, and instead we have another one of
9 my colleagues that is going to be answering
10 questions about that.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
12 Gianaris, the questions on NUMC, who would the
13 appropriate member be for this?
14 SENATOR GIANARIS: Senator Bynoe,
15 Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
17 Bynoe, do you yield for questions on --
18 Senator Rhoads' questions on NUMC?
19 Senator Rhoads, if you don't mind
20 rephrasing the question so that Senator Bynoe can
21 become acquainted.
22 SENATOR RHOADS: Certainly, not a
23 problem.
24 And I appreciate your answers,
25 Senator Rivera. I did just have one additional
5633
1 question for Senator Rivera before we switch to
2 Senator Bynoe, if that's okay.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
4 Rivera, do you yield?
5 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR RHOADS: We have discussed
9 figures regarding the amount of money that
10 New York State and the City of New York have paid
11 to provide services to illegal immigrants.
12 Can you provide a figure for this
13 past year as to how much New York State has spent
14 on illegal immigrant healthcare?
15 (Pause.)
16 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
17 Mr. President.
18 First of all, we have had this
19 conversation before, and I know that my colleague
20 will probably not change his mind, but I have a
21 deep aversion to the term "illegal alien." We're
22 not talking about ETs.
23 If we were talking about, I don't
24 know, Romulans and Spock or what have you, then I
25 would certainly be able to answer the question.
5634
1 If we're talking about undocumented
2 people, I would say that there is a number, we do
3 not have it with us. We did not expect this
4 conversation that probably refers to something we
5 call Emergency Medicaid. Since there are
6 instances in which an undocumented person, now an
7 undocumented person -- again, person -- who can
8 afford on their own coverage -- very few can, but
9 that doesn't -- it doesn't preclude the situation
10 in which somebody has enough money to have their
11 own private coverage -- then they would not be --
12 we would not be spending anything on that person.
13 However, if there is an undocumented
14 person who is sick and winds up in the
15 emergency room, that person, because we believe
16 that that person should not die because they get
17 sick, they are treated. And in many instances
18 what we use is something we call Emergency
19 Medicaid, that is strictly for the instance in
20 which that person has to go to the
21 emergency room.
22 We don't have the number in front of
23 us. I can have some of the staff figure out how
24 much it was that we spent in this last year. But
25 again, that is a situation that happens if there
5635
1 is an undocumented person that has to go the
2 hospital and get taken care of.
3 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
4 Senator Rivera. To correct the record, I used
5 the term "illegal immigrant."
6 But will the sponsor continue to
7 yield?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
9 Rivera, do you yield?
10 SENATOR RIVERA: Certainly,
11 Mr. President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR RHOADS: The figures that
15 we have are that as part of the Medicaid program
16 for illegal immigrants 65 and over, we spent
17 approximately $200 million last year and another
18 over $500 million for the Emergency Medicaid that
19 you spoke about, since in many instances they're
20 going to a hospital for their primary care as
21 opposed to going to a clinic or going to a
22 doctor.
23 Would those figures be accurate, in
24 your estimation?
25 SENATOR RIVERA: Mr. President,
5636
1 through you, if my colleague could repeat what --
2 the numbers that he mentioned, to double-check.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
4 Rhoads, would you mind repeating?
5 SENATOR RHOADS: Sure, I'll yield
6 to a question.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: No, I
8 said would you mind repeating, I apologize.
9 SENATOR RHOADS: Oh, sure.
10 Approximately 750 million total. Somewhere
11 around 550 million for Medicaid, Emergency
12 Medicaid, and 200 million for Medicaid referred
13 to illegal immigrants over the age of 65.
14 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
15 Mr. President, a couple of things.
16 First of all, Emergency Medicaid
17 does not just involve -- it does involve a lot of
18 undocumented folks, but it doesn't involve just
19 undocumented people. It would just be people who
20 are not -- who have no level of coverage at the
21 time that they are in -- they are admitted into
22 an emergency room. Or I should say treated in an
23 emergency room, not necessarily admitted,
24 depending on their situation.
25 I should point out a couple of other
5637
1 things, though. There is actually an
2 organization that we probably would not call some
3 crazy liberal think tank called the
4 Cato Institute, which actually found that as it
5 relates to the amount of money that immigrant
6 populations, undocumented and documented, put
7 back into the system, we actually have -- it far
8 outweighs whatever it is that these types of
9 instances that we are spending money, I don't
10 know, to keep them alive or what have you.
11 That being said, I do believe that
12 the number for -- as it relates to people over 65
13 that are undocumented, I'm trying to track it
14 down. I do believe that that number is about
15 200 million, but I am confirming it now.
16 (Pause.)
17 SENATOR RIVERA: We can track the
18 number down for you, Mr. President. It sounds
19 accurate, but we are still looking for
20 confirmation.
21 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
22 Senator Rivera.
23 If Senator Bynoe will yield to a few
24 questions.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
5638
1 Bynoe, do you yield to a question?
2 SENATOR BYNOE: Yes, I yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
6 Senator Bynoe. Through you, Mr. President.
7 Senator, as I indicated, our figures
8 are that we're spending approximately
9 $750 million last year for healthcare for illegal
10 immigrants, and we are adding to the VAPAP
11 program for distressed hospitals as well.
12 As you may know, NUMC in my
13 district, which adjoins yours, actually has a
14 situation where about 85 percent of the patients
15 that they treat are either Medicare, Medicaid, or
16 have no ability to pay. It's one of the two
17 safety-net hospitals in Nassau County that serves
18 actually a population of 1.4 million people.
19 Am I correct in those statements?
20 SENATOR BYNOE: Through you,
21 Mr. President. It seems plausible that you're
22 correct.
23 SENATOR RHOADS: And will the
24 sponsor continue to yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
5639
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR BYNOE: Yes, I yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR RHOADS: Is there any money
6 in this budget proposal to provide direct
7 assistance to NUMC?
8 SENATOR BYNOE: Through you,
9 Mr. President. There are funds that are
10 available for NUMC to apply for in the event that
11 they are continuing to be in need of assistance.
12 SENATOR RHOADS: And will the
13 sponsor continue to yield?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
15 sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR BYNOE: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR RHOADS: According to
20 NUMC's financial data, which was produced post
21 takeover of the new health board of the
22 Nassau Health Care Corporation Board as part of
23 last year's budget, indicated that there was
24 actually a $25 million decrease in VAPAP funding
25 received by NUMC from the state despite its
5640
1 financial situation.
2 Do we know why that was the case?
3 (Pause.)
4 SENATOR BYNOE: Through you,
5 Mr. President, that is a decision that the
6 executive chamber makes based on need.
7 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
8 Senator Bynoe.
9 On the bill.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
11 Rhoads on the bill.
12 SENATOR RHOADS: What we saw last
13 year was a political takeover of Nassau
14 University Medical Center. The Governor made the
15 decision, with the assistance of this chamber,
16 that they wanted to take over leadership of the
17 hospital after having defunded that hospital to
18 the tune of about $750 million since the Majority
19 took control back in 2019.
20 And what have we seen as a result of
21 that now that we're a year into that takeover?
22 Looking at the financial data, with the hospital
23 being run by the Governor's handpicked
24 appointees, is that NUMC reported an operating
25 lost last year to the tune of $137.9 million, a
5641
1 decrease in funding.
2 And I want to thank my colleague for
3 indicating that it was solely at the discretion
4 of the administration as to who receives
5 distressed hospital funding and VAPAP funding --
6 a $25 million decrease in funding, despite its
7 financial straits under the leadership of the
8 Governor's handpicked appointees.
9 It's also reporting a million-dollar
10 decrease in grants that it received from the
11 State of New York that it had previously
12 received.
13 As I indicated, NUMC has
14 85 percent -- it is a safety-net hospital, and it
15 has to treat whoever comes in the door.
16 Eighty-five percent of its patients -- actually,
17 over 85 percent -- it's 87 percent of its
18 patients are Medicare, Medicaid, or have no
19 ability to pay whatsoever.
20 It is the frontline, the first line
21 of defense from a healthcare standpoint for many
22 underserved populations, which are the ones that
23 VAPAP funding is supposed to focus on. Despite
24 that, we see absolutely no relief.
25 Now, NUMC, under the leadership of
5642
1 the Governor's handpicked appointees, NUMC has
2 made the decision that despite having made the
3 investment in a state-of-the-art maternity and
4 newborn center just a few years ago, that NUMC no
5 longer provides maternity and newborn services.
6 Our concern a year ago was the fact
7 that the Governor engineered this takeover
8 because the Governor wanted to cut services to
9 NUMC and perhaps even potentially close NUMC.
10 And it certainly seems to be moving in that
11 direction.
12 It is also telling that in this
13 budget, despite the financial straits and despite
14 the fact that services to this vital hospital are
15 now being cut, that unlike SUNY Downstate, which
16 received a bailout last year to the tune of over
17 a billion dollars, NUMC receives nothing.
18 And so I ask the question to no one
19 in particular: What's going on here? Because I
20 know the residents of Nassau County want to know
21 the answer. The Governor needs to be held to
22 account. This Legislature needs to be held to
23 account as well. They should be receiving
24 relief, and they are not.
25 Thank you for the time,
5643
1 Mr. President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
3 you, Senator Rhoads.
4 Senator Bynoe on the bill.
5 SENATOR BYNOE: Yes. So, you know,
6 I have to be responsible here with the truth.
7 And the truth of the matter is that there was no
8 decrease in funding to NUMC.
9 In fact, there was a financial boon
10 to NUMC insomuch that New York State waived the
11 NYSHIP payments that were due and owed to them.
12 That was a big figure, as a part of the
13 $1.4 billion that NUMC was in debt when last year
14 we had to make the change.
15 It also should be noted that this is
16 not a board that is borne of only Democratic
17 members. It should include some GOP members, but
18 Nassau County failed to make their appointments.
19 I also want to make a point that
20 there has been mismanagement at that hospital for
21 years on top of years, to the extent that there's
22 medical misconduct because doctors were
23 performing surgeries without there being a valid
24 need.
25 Additionally, we have a situation
5644
1 there where they created a neuroscience
2 department at $3.8 million, but failed to even
3 open it.
4 These are the issues that have
5 plagued NUMC for years on top of years. And
6 so -- rightfully so -- we had to make a change.
7 We had to pivot, because that hospital is a
8 Level 1 trauma center. Ninety percent of its
9 patients are below the poverty level.
10 NUMC is making its way back, but
11 this is not a light switch. After years of
12 mismanagement, it's going to take time to make
13 sure that we replenish the resources, and that
14 includes medical professionals and making sure
15 that we make the investments in the department
16 where we can service our constituents and our
17 patients.
18 Moreover, I want to make a point
19 that beyond squandering resources, there are also
20 investigations going on with the individuals who
21 were running the hospital. And so there are
22 allegations that there were payouts that weren't
23 rightful. And we are doing our job to make sure
24 there's a forensic audit, and we will be able to
25 at that point make sure that all the resources go
5645
1 into the departments that are performing
2 life-changing medical services.
3 So yes, the OB-GYN is closed right
4 now. It's temporarily closed for a 60-day period
5 because we have to make an evaluation there,
6 because there were high levels of concern. And
7 so the hospital has worked with other
8 institutions in the area to ensure that we can
9 have healthy babies born without any
10 complications.
11 So with that, I would say that I'm
12 going to vote affirmatively on this bill because
13 it makes sure that there's resources there, based
14 on need, for not just NUMC but other
15 public-benefit hospitals across the state.
16 Thank you very much.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
18 you, Senator Bynoe.
19 Senator Borrello.
20 SENATOR RHOADS: Just to finish
21 up --
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Excuse
23 me, gentlemen.
24 Senator Lanza.
25 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, I
5646
1 believe that Senator Rhoads has risen.
2 (Laughter.)
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank you
4 for the clarification.
5 Senator Rhoads.
6 SENATOR RHOADS: Only one person
7 has risen, and it's certainly not me.
8 But will the -- will Senator Bynoe
9 yield to an additional question.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
11 Bynoe, will you yield?
12 SENATOR BYNOE: Yes, I do.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
14 Senator yields.
15 SENATOR RHOADS: Through you,
16 Mr. President. The $137.9 million operating
17 deficit by -- operating loss by NUMC in 2025, is
18 there an explanation of that?
19 And would you consider that to be
20 financial mismanagement now that the Governor's
21 office has complete control?
22 SENATOR BYNOE: Through you,
23 Mr. President. I believe that it's inherent to
24 the population that they serve and the reliance
25 they are on for Medicaid reimbursement.
5647
1 SENATOR RHOADS: On the bill.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
3 Rhoads on the bill.
4 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
5 Senator Bynoe.
6 The fact of the matter is you have a
7 hospital that is in trouble, you have a hospital
8 that is being run now by a majority of the
9 Governor's appointees, by a handpicked
10 administration by the Governor's appointees that
11 is running a $137.9 million deficit when
12 previously its operating deficits were
13 significantly smaller.
14 But the more important thing that
15 you see is no assistance on the horizon. Vital
16 services are now being denied. The residents of
17 Nassau County, because of the leadership of the
18 Governor's handpicked team -- and we see no
19 relief in this budget, no indication that there's
20 going to be any VAPAP funding, and we see a
21 continuation of the pattern that we have seen
22 since 2019 of that hospital being starved of
23 funding -- for what purpose I don't know, but I
24 have my suspicions.
25 And that needs to be given serious
5648
1 attention by this Legislature. I know it is
2 being given serious attention by me.
3 Thank you, Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
5 you, Senator Rhoads.
6 Senator Borrello, why do you rise?
7 SENATOR BORRELLO: Would --
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Just look
9 around, George, these are your colleagues. You
10 good?
11 Senator Borrello, why do you rise?
12 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President, I
13 almost forgot. But would the sponsor yield for a
14 question, a Gaming Commission question?
15 SENATOR GIANARIS: Senator Addabbo
16 will be the person for that.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
18 Addabbo will be the person.
19 Senator Addabbo, do you yield?
20 SENATOR ADDABBO: Sure.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
22 Senator yields.
23 SENATOR BORRELLO: All right, here
24 we go.
25 Through you, Mr. President, this is
5649
1 the Aid to Localities bill, and it shows here
2 there's an appropriation for $306 million for the
3 Tribal State Compact Revenue Program, which is an
4 increase of $55 million, it looks like, or
5 17.3 percent.
6 So is this the money that's going to
7 the municipalities that benefit from the compact?
8 Is that correct?
9 SENATOR ADDABBO: Through you,
10 Mr. President, the answer is yes.
11 SENATOR BORRELLO: Okay. And so
12 with that being said --
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
14 Borrello, are you asking the Senator to yield?
15 SENATOR BORRELLO: I'm sorry, yes.
16 Through you, Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
18 Addabbo, will you yield?
19 SENATOR ADDABBO: Yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
21 Senator yields.
22 SENATOR BORRELLO: That's a pretty
23 hefty increase. So with that being said, where
24 are we getting this projection of such a hefty
25 increase in revenues?
5650
1 (Pause.)
2 SENATOR ADDABBO: Through you,
3 Mr. President. That is going to -- that is the
4 projection that we expect from the Senecas.
5 Obviously with the compact still being under
6 negotiation, that is the expected revenue to be
7 distributed.
8 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
9 will the sponsor continue to yield.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
11 sponsor yield?
12 SENATOR ADDABBO: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR BORRELLO: I believe -- and
16 I want to clarify -- that you said this is coming
17 from the Executive. So it's the Governor that
18 gave this revenue increase?
19 SENATOR ADDABBO: Through you,
20 Mr. President, the answer is yes.
21 SENATOR BORRELLO: Yes. Yes, okay.
22 So have we heard anything about
23 compact negotiations? Because my contacts are
24 saying it's kind of nowhere. How is -- oh, I'm
25 sorry.
5651
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
2 Borrello, wait. You asked a question.
3 Senator Addabbo, would you yield and
4 answer that question?
5 SENATOR ADDABBO: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7 Senator yields.
8 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you.
9 SENATOR ADDABBO: Through you,
10 Mr. President. As of last week, the State Native
11 American Relations Committee had a roundtable
12 discussion. And at that roundtable discussion
13 the Senecas did state that the negotiations are
14 ongoing. That's the best I can say at this
15 point.
16 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
17 will the sponsor continue to yield?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
19 sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR ADDABBO: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR BORRELLO: So what other --
24 could you tell me which tribal nations in
25 New York State participate in this program? I'm
5652
1 assuming it's not just the Senecas.
2 (Pause.)
3 SENATOR ADDABBO: Through you,
4 Mr. President. It's the Senecas, the Mohawks,
5 and the Oneidas. Those are the three nations.
6 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
7 will the sponsor continue to yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR ADDABBO: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR BORRELLO: And as of right
14 now, the other two nations have a compact that's
15 in place, generating revenue.
16 Has there been substantial increases
17 in those two income streams for this program that
18 you're aware of?
19 SENATOR ADDABBO: Through you,
20 Mr. President. To confirm, there have been
21 slight increases with a major -- with a larger
22 increase in the Senecas. But there has been an
23 increase in both.
24 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
25 just a clarification. Did you say larger
5653
1 increases from the Senecas?
2 SENATOR ADDABBO: Through you,
3 Mr. President, yeah, that is confirmed.
4 SENATOR BORRELLO: Okay.
5 Mr. President, just a clarification, if the
6 sponsor would continue to yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
8 sponsor yield?
9 SENATOR ADDABBO: Yes,
10 Mr. President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR BORRELLO: You did say that
14 it's a larger increase from the Senecas, but this
15 is information that you're getting from the
16 Governor's office, is that correct?
17 (Pause.)
18 SENATOR ADDABBO: Through you,
19 Mr. President. The accumulation of the revenue
20 from the Senecas is basically because the
21 compact's still being negotiated. That's where
22 we see the increase.
23 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
24 on the bill.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
5654
1 Borrello on the bill.
2 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
3 Senator Addabbo.
4 I want to thank you also for what
5 you have done to revitalize this -- you know, our
6 subcommittee and re-engaging with the Senecas and
7 others. So -- and I appreciate that.
8 My concern lies with the Governor
9 and her lack of good-faith negotiations on this
10 compact. Because you have said that we're going
11 to see a substantial increase, and you're saying
12 this based on the fact that right now money has
13 been going into essentially a fund, you know,
14 that is being held until this compact is
15 negotiated and finalized.
16 There's no doubt in my mind, and
17 certainly the Senecas' mind, that the percentage
18 that is being paid right now from the gaming
19 compact, the old one, which has been expired for
20 going on three years now, the revenue is going to
21 go down, not up.
22 So if the Governor thinks all that
23 money that's in that account, in that escrow
24 account, is somehow going to magically end up in
25 the budget, she's wrong. She's wrong because
5655
1 whatever amount that they agree on is going to
2 have to retroactively be decreased.
3 And not just because the Senecas
4 deserve a fair compact that would include a lower
5 percentage -- because, quite frankly, New York
6 State has saturated the gaming market with things
7 that are not involved in Native American gaming
8 -- you know, sports gambling and so forth -- that
9 have eaten away at the revenues that are
10 benefiting the municipalities that I represent in
11 my district and that so many others in this room
12 represent.
13 It's also because it's simply one of
14 the worst deals that has been negotiated, and the
15 Senecas I know need a fair compact, and that's
16 what they're negotiating for.
17 So, look, I was in local government
18 for a long time as county executive. And, you
19 know, these numbers are projections, right? We
20 don't really know what the number's going to be.
21 It's pretty easy to cook the books, if you will,
22 and increase revenue to help balance the budget
23 when in the end you know you're not going to
24 actually achieve those revenues.
25 I think that's what's happened here,
5656
1 quite frankly. This compact is nowhere, from
2 what I am told, finalized. Negotiations have
3 been going on for three years, and the Senecas
4 very generously have agreed to these quarterly
5 extensions where they continue to pay money into
6 an escrow account, knowing full well that that
7 number, that percentage, is going to decrease
8 with whatever final number they come up with.
9 And quite frankly, the Governor
10 hasn't negotiated in good faith. And if I was
11 advising the Seneca nation, I would tell them
12 it's about time to say maybe you stop making
13 those payments. They're apparently nicer than I
14 am, because they continue to make those payments
15 even though good-faith negotiations have not been
16 in good faith.
17 So my concern is not so much with
18 this chamber and with the number that's in this
19 budget, although it is a concern. It's a concern
20 what numbers you receive from the Governor, and
21 is she being honest with us, honest with you,
22 honest with the Seneca Nation.
23 And I suspect, based on the
24 conversation we've had, that that is simply not
25 the case. That this is revenue that, quite
5657
1 frankly, has been inflated from a Governor that
2 has continued to fail to negotiate a fair compact
3 with the Seneca Nation.
4 So thank you, Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
6 you, Senator Borrello.
7 Senator Walczyk, why do you rise?
8 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you,
9 Mr. President. I've got quick questions on the
10 Office of Children and Family Services, Office of
11 Aging, Department of Health, and then the
12 Education Department, in that order.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
14 Gianaris.
15 SENATOR GIANARIS: Those are all
16 over the place. Which one would you like to
17 begin with?
18 SENATOR WALCZYK: Office of
19 Children and Family Services.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: That
21 would be Senator Brisport.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
23 Brisport, do you yield?
24 SENATOR BRISPORT: Yes.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
5658
1 Brisport yields.
2 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
3 Mr. President. There's a $350,000 allocation in
4 this Aid to Localities budget bill for services
5 and expenses of Make the Road community
6 organizing projects. What services and expenses
7 would that allocation go toward?
8 (Pause.)
9 SENATOR BRISPORT: Through you,
10 Mr. President, it would be for community
11 projects.
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
13 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
14 yield?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR BRISPORT: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR WALCZYK: Just in the light
21 of transparency and openness, could you elaborate
22 a little bit more on what type of community
23 projects, just so I know what that $350,000 of
24 taxpayer money is going towards?
25 (Pause.)
5659
1 SENATOR BRISPORT: Through you,
2 Mr. President. It is generally services that
3 help children and families improve their economic
4 conditions. I know one of their focuses has been
5 on childcare.
6 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you.
7 Mr. President, would someone yield
8 on the Office of Aging section?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
10 Gianaris, on the Office of Aging.
11 SENATOR GIANARIS: That would be
12 Senator Cleare, Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
14 Cleare, do you yield?
15 SENATOR CLEARE: Yes, I do.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
17 Cleare yields.
18 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
19 Mr. President, there's a $200,000 allocation in
20 here for services and expenses of Services and
21 Advocacy for Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and
22 Transgender Elders, Inc., or SAGE. What services
23 and expenses is that $200,000 going towards?
24 (Pause.)
25 SENATOR CLEARE: It's a senior
5660
1 citizen center. They provide senior services,
2 and that can range from housing to nutrition.
3 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
4 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
5 yield?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
7 sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR CLEARE: Through you,
9 Mr. President, I do.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: So is the
13 $200,000 just kind of open for them to utilize,
14 or is it a specific target for one of the
15 services that you listed?
16 SENATOR CLEARE: To support the
17 needs of the senior LGBTQ population.
18 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you. Thank
19 you.
20 Mr. President, would someone yield
21 on the Department of Health section?
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
23 Department of Health, Senator Gianaris?
24 SENATOR GIANARIS: Senator Rivera.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:
5661
1 Senator Rivera, do you yield?
2 SENATOR RIVERA: Yup.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 Senator yields.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
6 Mr. President. There's a million dollars for
7 services and expenses for workforce development
8 for transgender, gender nonconforming, nonbinary
9 and intersex people within the state. Is that a
10 new program and a new allocation of a
11 million dollars?
12 (Pause.)
13 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
14 Mr. President, it is not a new program.
15 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
16 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
17 yield?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
19 sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR WALCZYK: Was it funded at
24 a million dollars last year?
25 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
5662
1 Mr. President, it is flat from last year, yes.
2 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
3 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
4 yield?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
6 sponsor yield?
7 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR WALCZYK: What did they
11 spend that million dollars on last year?
12 (Pause.)
13 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
14 Mr. President, we could get you an exact list.
15 We don't have it with us.
16 But the program is meant to be
17 distributed to different organizations that help
18 the trans community across the State of New York,
19 particularly around their health needs.
20 So there was a distribution of it.
21 The exact breakdown of it we do not have readily
22 available.
23 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
24 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
25 yield?
5663
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR WALCZYK: And it's the
7 Department of Health that does the distribution
8 of that million dollars? Do they do any
9 reporting on how they distribute it and what the
10 oversight is for how the money is spent?
11 (Pause.)
12 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
13 Mr. President. The Department of Health is
14 required to report on this program, as they do on
15 most anything else that they distribute.
16 So yes, if we were to track down
17 from the Department of Health where the money
18 went, we'd be able to find out.
19 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
20 Mr. President, briefly on the bill.
21 And I'm all set, thank you.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
23 Walczyk on the bill.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: And just as
25 you're still listening, Mr. Chair, I'd appreciate
5664
1 any feedback for how the money actually got spent
2 last year and how they plan to distribute that
3 this year. But happy to get with you offline.
4 And if someone -- through you,
5 Mr. President -- would yield on the
6 Education Department section of this Aid to
7 Localities bill.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
9 Gianaris.
10 SENATOR GIANARIS: That would be
11 Senator Mayer.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Chair
13 Mayer, do you yield?
14 SENATOR MAYER: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
16 Senator yields.
17 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
18 Mr. President, there's $28 million for services
19 and expenses for the My Brother's Keeper
20 initiative. What services and expenses will the
21 $28 million that we're allocating here go
22 towards?
23 SENATOR MAYER: Through you,
24 Mr. President, I'm so glad you asked about such a
25 fantastic program. And it's extremely worthy of
5665
1 expenditures.
2 Last week I had the opportunity to
3 go to the convocation in The Egg with hundreds of
4 young men throughout the state, from school
5 districts throughout the state, that are in a
6 program that was started at least 10 years ago,
7 at least when I was in the Assembly, that is
8 focused on providing mentorship and guidance and
9 strength in both academics and character building
10 for particularly young men of color in all of our
11 communities.
12 And it has been remarkably
13 successful in enhancing outcomes, making kids
14 college-ready, and providing strong mentorship
15 opportunities for kids to develop in a positive
16 development. It is money well worth spending.
17 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
18 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
19 yield?
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR MAYER: Yes, I yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: And it's the
5666
1 State Education Department that provides the
2 oversight for the $28 million that we're
3 allocating here?
4 SENATOR MAYER: Yeah. Through you,
5 Mr. President, yes, they do.
6 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
7 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to
8 yield?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR MAYER: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR WALCZYK: Do they report
15 back specifically on how that money is allocated
16 and spent across the State of New York?
17 SENATOR MAYER: Through you,
18 Mr. President. My understanding, from what I've
19 seen firsthand in the districts I represent and
20 throughout the state, is they provide funding to
21 school districts to have designated staff to
22 supervise the program.
23 And in some cases they have
24 contracts with outside vendors for certain
25 services. But it's basically to fund these
5667
1 essential programs.
2 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
3 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
4 yield?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
6 sponsor yield?
7 SENATOR MAYER: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR WALCZYK: So that's
11 distributed down from the State Education
12 Department to the school districts to then
13 allocate and contract with vendors or nonprofits?
14 SENATOR MAYER: Through you,
15 Mr. President. What I have seen and what I can
16 speak to is the direct employment of staff within
17 the school districts that have My Brother's
18 Keeper -- and I would add there is My Sister's
19 Keeper as well -- that supervise the program.
20 And from what I've seen in multiple
21 particularly urban districts, there is designated
22 staff in order to make the program successful.
23 And it has a strong track record of success,
24 which I'd be glad to share with you.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you,
5668
1 Madam Chair.
2 Mr. President, would someone yield
3 on the local assistance appropriation section?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
5 Gianaris.
6 SENATOR GIANARIS: I believe we're
7 back to Senator Martinez.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
9 Martinez, do you yield for some questions?
10 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Yes, I do.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 Senator yields.
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
14 Mr. President, last year AIM was funded at
15 715 million to help offset local property taxes.
16 That's spread over the 1500-plus municipalities
17 that we have in the State of New York.
18 The local assistance appropriation
19 section in this bill increased by almost a
20 billion dollars this year. So what can those
21 municipalities expect that billion-dollar
22 increase to mean for them in AIM payments?
23 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Through you,
24 Mr. President, it is unchanged from last year.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you,
5669
1 Mr. President. On the bill.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
3 Walczyk on the bill.
4 SENATOR WALCZYK: Yeah, there was a
5 very large increase in the local assistance
6 appropriation. But instead of pumping that money
7 into AIM payments to help support municipalities
8 that depend on these for their normal
9 governmental functions, this body went a
10 different direction this year: $695 million to
11 New York City, $55 million to Buffalo,
12 $40 million to Yonkers, $40 million to Albany,
13 $20 million to Rochester, $20 million to
14 Syracuse, $10 million to Mount Vernon, and
15 2 million to the City of Auburn.
16 And the greatest trivia question:
17 What do all of those cities have in common?
18 Democrat mayors. Surprise, surprise.
19 Your job here is not to play
20 partisan politics with the allocation of funds in
21 the State of New York. We have a job that
22 supercedes that here in this body.
23 I was told today that New York City
24 was the wealthiest city in the world and that's
25 why we have to tax the billionaires. Well, okay,
5670
1 I don't know why we're bailing out New York City
2 instead of the struggling poor rural
3 municipalities in New York that could use a
4 modicum of increase, at least an inflationary
5 increase in the lines of funding that they hope
6 for from the State of New York.
7 I'll be a no on this bill, and I
8 encourage my colleagues to vote no as well.
9 Thank you, Mr. President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
11 you, Senator Walczyk.
12 Are there any other Senators wishing
13 to be heard?
14 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
15 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
16 Read the last section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
20 roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
23 Gianaris to explain his vote.
24 SENATOR GIANARIS: Thank you,
25 Mr. President.
5671
1 I just wanted to give some solace to
2 my colleague that he need not worry. Tomorrow we
3 will be supporting his bill to raise taxes for
4 Herkimer County, which will then be able to fund
5 that local government. So we are supporting our
6 local governments as well.
7 Thank you, Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
9 Gianaris to be recorded in the affirmative.
10 Senator Serrano to explain his vote.
11 SENATOR SERRANO: Thank you very
12 much, Mr. President.
13 I very proudly vote aye on this
14 bill, in particular for the funding for the arts
15 and culture, and it is so critically important
16 that we do so. The arts and culture are so
17 important to every corner of New York State.
18 A recent report by the Center for an
19 Urban Future specifically in New York City shows
20 that the creative workforce employs over
21 300,000 people and that the tourism economy is
22 $74 billion. Think about statewide. It's much
23 higher.
24 And it's not just what the arts does
25 for all of us, but it's also about the careers
5672
1 and the jobs that they create. It is important
2 to note that during COVID, during the pandemic,
3 the arts and culture sector really suffered.
4 They were the first to close and oftentimes the
5 last to open.
6 But it is so important to remember
7 that our economy is so closely linked to tourism.
8 And again, in New York City it's very easy to
9 draw that line and show it. But actually every
10 corner of New York State is affected by the
11 creative economy and has a tremendous boost
12 because of it.
13 So when some argue that we are
14 spending too much in this budget, that we are
15 doing things and spending on things that have no
16 return, the arts and culture have a huge return
17 on investment. A dollar given in brings back
18 multitudes in jobs and economic activity in so
19 many different sectors.
20 So it's with that that I proudly
21 vote aye. Thank you.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
23 Serrano to be recorded in the affirmative.
24 Senator Murray to explain his vote.
25 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you,
5673
1 Mr. President.
2 I know I rail on the MTA -- no pun
3 intended -- a lot, and the LIRR, but I'm
4 actually -- I'm a huge fan. I mean, they have
5 the capability of being the best transportation
6 system in the entire world. It's just the way
7 they're managed that is the problem.
8 Now, recently we had a -- thank God,
9 a very short, brief strike at the LIRR. And it
10 really did show -- there was chaos. That first
11 day, there was chaos in the area of -- just the
12 roads were jam-packed and everything, and it
13 showed just how important that the railroad is to
14 the entire area.
15 But the problem is this. We cannot
16 keep rewarding bad management, and that's what we
17 tend to do. We find new ways to come up with new
18 money and new funding sources.
19 Now, on one of the Zoom calls during
20 this strike, there was a senior management person
21 that made the comment, "You know, those elected
22 officials, they always -- they get on us and yell
23 at us for spending recklessly and all of this,
24 but then they want us to give these increases to
25 the workforce."
5674
1 News flash. I don't think paying
2 your workers properly is spending recklessly. I
3 think that's smart. And maybe if you thought a
4 little smarter, you wouldn't be in the position
5 you're in.
6 I'm voting no. Thank you.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
8 Murray to be recorded in the negative.
9 Senator May to explain her vote.
10 SENATOR MAY: Thank you,
11 Mr. President.
12 There was a question earlier about
13 the cities that are receiving additional
14 AIM funding in this budget. And the question
15 implied that somehow we in this Majority are just
16 funding municipalities because they're governed
17 by Democrats.
18 But Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo,
19 Albany, Auburn, Mount Vernon -- these are cities
20 that are not just where employers are located,
21 they are home to the hospitals, universities,
22 arts organizations, government buildings,
23 homeless shelters, philanthropies, the highway
24 interchanges and the sewage treatment plants that
25 serve entire metro areas. Most of these are
5675
1 untaxed properties that rely heavily on city
2 services like snow removal and trash collection
3 and fire and police departments.
4 Meanwhile, the surrounding
5 communities that benefit from these services do
6 everything in their power to wall themselves off
7 from the urban populations. They zone to prevent
8 affordable housing and public transportation.
9 They jealously guard their high-performing
10 schools. They lobby heavily against regional
11 shared services. And they quietly persist in
12 engaging in housing discrimination and racial
13 profiling.
14 This budget recognizes that our
15 cities are the places where everyone is welcome.
16 People of all races, ethnicities, ages and
17 incomes, refugees and students from all over the
18 world, people experiencing homelessness and
19 displacement, people who cannot drive or do not
20 own a car.
21 Surrounding communities that do not
22 wish to help these cities directly in providing
23 their services should be only too glad to know
24 that this budget does provide such help.
25 And if I have an extra 10 seconds, I
5676
1 will say there's a cider event going on down in
2 the Well --
3 (Laughter.)
4 SENATOR MAY: -- and I encourage
5 everyone to go partake of wonderful New York
6 cider.
7 Thank you.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
9 May "always be closing" to be recorded in the
10 affirmative.
11 Senator Cleare to explain her vote.
12 SENATOR CLEARE: Thank you,
13 Mr. President.
14 Again, I rise as chair of the
15 Aging Committee to acknowledge some of the good
16 in this budget bill.
17 With this budget we have finally
18 started to listen to providers such as nursing
19 homes and those organizations that take care of
20 our most vulnerable and precious older
21 New Yorkers.
22 We have extended the Uniform Managed
23 Care Organization funding mechanism to do the
24 most good, including investment in nursing homes
25 of almost $500 million, $100 million for the
5677
1 Quality Incentive Vital Access Provider Pool, and
2 up to $20 million for assisted living providers
3 and hospices.
4 Though we certainly can use more
5 funding and have been advocating for such, we
6 finally have a foothold. And I hope from here we
7 will continue to make increasing investments in
8 community social, medical and institutional care
9 for our seniors.
10 Thank you. I proudly vote aye.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
12 Cleare to be recorded in the affirmative.
13 Senator Martins to explain his vote.
14 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
15 Mr. President.
16 You know, this body has a history of
17 helping municipalities when they do need help and
18 there are deficits. We have a history of doing
19 that. And it comes with a level of fiscal
20 accountability and oversight, always. We want to
21 make sure that we're there to help to make sure
22 that the bills get paid, but we also want to make
23 sure that that municipality is taking on the
24 responsibility of making ends meet, of addressing
25 the shortfall so we do not have a recurring need
5678
1 to come back to the state for funding.
2 We have examples in the state of
3 financial control boards that exist decades after
4 the initial request and payment and are there
5 even though those municipalities are doing well.
6 And the idea, Mr. President, that somehow there
7 are municipalities out there that can't make ends
8 meet because they have different circumstances is
9 absurd, absolutely absurd.
10 Every municipality has an
11 opportunity and a responsibility to make ends
12 meet and to live within their means and not to be
13 bailed out every year.
14 So the idea that we're going to be
15 paying tens of millions of dollars to cities so
16 that they can be bailed out -- and I'm going to
17 say it, Mr. President, politically, because down
18 in Nassau County where we have surpluses year
19 after year, and we continue to make our budget
20 ends meet, we still have a financial control
21 board which they have refused, the Governor has
22 refused to remove even though we are absolutely
23 okay.
24 But yet we're spending 20, 30, 40,
25 50 million dollars, $450 million, without a
5679
1 single responsibility on the part of the
2 municipality to show us that they're going to
3 bridge that budget gap in their budget.
4 It's wrong. I vote no.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
6 Martins to be recorded in the negative.
7 Senator Fahy to explain her vote.
8 SENATOR FAHY: Thank you,
9 Mr. Speaker.
10 There's a lot to appreciate in this
11 bill, and I will be voting in the affirmative for
12 it, including in the arts, arts community that we
13 just heard about, as well as seniors, nursing
14 homes, and more.
15 But the couple of pieces that I
16 really want to make note of today is the
17 additional $20 million that will be invested in
18 the City of Albany to try to stabilize their
19 finances there. It is a city where well over
20 half the property is tax-exempt and where the
21 state workforce has primarily worked from home
22 since COVID, and it has really affected the
23 downtown parts.
24 We have a $200 million investment.
25 I'm very optimistic we will -- from last year,
5680
1 and I'm very optimistic that we will turn around
2 the finances in Albany. The mayor is working
3 aggressively on a plan to do that. But in the
4 meantime we needed that investment, along with a
5 number of other upstate cities that are feeling
6 the effects of post-COVID and more.
7 In addition, I could not be more
8 pleased that we have a million-dollar investment
9 in the Harriman State Office Campus finally for a
10 comprehensive plan to take what is a fully
11 state-owned complex and begin to develop that
12 such that we will add commercial, retail and
13 hopefully even housing into that property to get
14 it back on the tax rolls as Albany begins to
15 stabilize its finances.
16 We're finally getting out of the
17 1960s there, and I truly appreciate the leader
18 for hearing us on these Albany concerns, whether
19 it's downtown or uptown. We have a
20 billion-dollar investment coming in, just
21 announced last week, an investment again in
22 nanotechnology. I am optimistic we will turn
23 this around, but we've got to make some smart
24 investments to add to it.
25 And with that, Mr. President, I vote
5681
1 in the affirmative. Thank you.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
3 Fahy to be recorded in the affirmative.
4 Senator Jackson to explain his vote.
5 SENATOR JACKSON: Thank you,
6 Mr. President. I rise in order to support the
7 bill.
8 But I wanted to say Aid to
9 Municipalities -- I've been fighting verbally
10 myself as far as making sure that New York City
11 is never left out again as far as AIM funding for
12 the municipalities. And if you think that just
13 because they're getting their share that, you
14 know, you have to give more to others, well, they
15 get more by the wealth of New York City being as
16 it is. And so when, you know, one administration
17 comes by and says now is the time for us to get
18 behind the city, that's going to hold people
19 accountable.
20 So with that, I continuously will
21 push for Aid to Municipalities because they're
22 entitled to it just like everybody else is.
23 And so with that, I vote aye,
24 Mr. President.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
5682
1 Jackson to be recorded in the affirmative.
2 Announce the results.
3 Wait, excuse me, I'm sorry.
4 Senator Mattera to explain his vote.
5 SENATOR MATTERA: Thank you,
6 Mr. President.
7 This bill is a perfect example of
8 dysfunctional government as its worst. Tax, tax,
9 tax, especially the wealthy that's worked hard
10 their whole life. They earned what they earned.
11 Yes, earned it.
12 Bailing out cities with taxpayers'
13 monies. New York City, 695 million in this bill.
14 Buffalo, 55 million. Yonkers, 40 million.
15 Albany, 40 million. Rochester, 20 million.
16 Syracuse, 20 million. Mount Vernon, 10 million.
17 City of Auburn, 2 million -- they are
18 Democratic-controlled cities.
19 Let's get back to New York City
20 again -- 695 million on top of that. What about
21 the 1.5 billion that Governor Hochul gave back in
22 February?
23 Plus in this budget, what about the
24 different things given in other bills --
25 $4 billion given to Mayor Mamdani because of
5683
1 obviously Governor Hochul, it's an election year.
2 What are we, buying votes? Everybody knows on
3 both sides what's going on here.
4 Every New Yorker needs to know what
5 happened in this budget -- a $260 billion budget,
6 more than Florida, Texas, North Dakota,
7 South Dakota combined. It's dysfunctional
8 government at its worst.
9 We lost 2.5 million residents since
10 2020. We have a Siena poll that says, guess
11 what, in the next five years we're ready to lose
12 another 6 million because -- great residents of
13 New York State, because of budgets like this.
14 So, Mr. President, I vote no on this
15 bill.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
17 Mattera to be recorded in the negative.
18 Senator Weik to explain her vote.
19 SENATOR WEIK: Thank you,
20 Mr. President.
21 Their fair share -- we've heard this
22 over and over and over tonight. Their fair share
23 is a great philosophy, but it's certainly very
24 subjective. Who's contributing their fair share?
25 Who's paying their fair share? Certainly
5684
1 New Yorkers should be upset about where their
2 fair share is going.
3 MTA is certainly getting more than
4 their fair share. With fare evasions and no
5 effective solutions, we've got, as Senator Murray
6 pointed out, taxes, fees, fare increases,
7 congestion pricing. This is an authority that
8 has certainly gotten more than their fair share
9 for decades and has done nothing with it. The
10 only thing they should be getting is fiscal
11 oversight.
12 Our veterans, where are their fair
13 share? Dwyer fund, no increase. And other funds
14 have been decreased. That's a shame. That's a
15 shame for New Yorkers. And certainly they're not
16 getting their fair share.
17 What I'd like to know is there's
18 almost 3 million Long Islanders, and almost
19 nothing in this budget represents funding for
20 Long Islanders.
21 I vote no.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
23 Weik to be recorded in the negative.
24 Senator Bailey to explain his vote.
25 SENATOR BAILEY: Thank you,
5685
1 Madam President.
2 Let me start on a bipartisan note
3 and say happy birthday to Senator Borrello.
4 (Cheers; applause.)
5 SENATOR BAILEY: And let me just
6 remind my colleagues that bipartisanship is
7 something that we don't just speak about, we are
8 about it.
9 I heard a lot of commentary just now
10 about the Democratic-run cities that their
11 allocations are going to, and I want to remind
12 you that all of the people -- the tradespeople,
13 the veterans, all of these people live in those
14 cities too. Are they less deserving because they
15 live in these cities?
16 I represent the City of
17 Mount Vernon, and I would love for each of you to
18 come to the Vernon. Come to the greatest
19 4 square miles in Westchester County, and come
20 tell the people of Mount Vernon that they don't
21 deserve $10 million. If you want to do it, come
22 with me. You have my number.
23 A couple of weeks ago, during the
24 extender for a colleague across the aisle, to
25 make sure we helped out their school district,
5686
1 everybody over here voted for it because it was
2 for the kids of that school district.
3 But now we get a different side, and
4 there's partisanship and there's this and there's
5 that. What it is is nonsense, point blank,
6 period. It's foolishness, and it's something
7 that doesn't belong in this chamber when we're
8 speaking about allocations for money for people
9 that live in the State of New York, that work
10 these jobs, that have lived these lives, that
11 have poured their heart and soul in our
12 communities.
13 For those reasons and many more, I
14 proudly vote aye, Madam President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
16 Bailey to be recorded in the affirmative.
17 Senator Lanza to explain his vote.
18 SENATOR LANZA: Thank you,
19 Madam President.
20 So I think that the issue we have on
21 this side of the aisle is we talk about bailout,
22 and we're just concerned about who it is that's
23 being bailed out. And it just seems to us, when
24 you get this money to whether it's -- I'm a
25 New York City resident, proud. It just seems to
5687
1 me that we're not bailing out the people. I
2 mean, Senator Bailey just spoke eloquently about
3 who it is we're supposed to be helping. And we
4 just feel that that's not where it's going.
5 We're bailing out -- from my
6 perspective, we're bailing out policies that
7 annually and repeatedly fails the people. You
8 know, we're going to get this money to New York
9 City, I'm with Senator Jackson. We're going to
10 get the money to New York City. And you know
11 what? My constituents, my New York City
12 constituents, they're going to wake up tomorrow
13 and their energy bill's going to be higher than
14 the national average by a lot, their taxes are
15 going to be higher than just about everyone that
16 lives in this country, the roads are still going
17 to be sort of in need of repair. The services
18 aren't going to be there to the extent that they
19 ought to be there, given the amount of taxes that
20 we pay in New York City.
21 You know, somebody said that the
22 state budget in New York is larger than Florida.
23 That's true. But we have another budget, in
24 New York City. As a New York City resident, I
25 have to pay my share of the New York City budget,
5688
1 which itself is larger than the entire state
2 budget of Florida, just New York City's budget.
3 And of course if you live in
4 New York City you've got to pay your share of the
5 state budget. You put them together, you know,
6 it's a larger budget than the majority of
7 countries, nations in the world. And people just
8 look out the window, and they say, Where's the
9 money going? It doesn't seem to be coming to me.
10 I hear from people every day, we pay
11 more and more and more, and what is it getting
12 us? And, you know, we're about to spend more
13 money than the state has ever spent -- by the
14 way, New York doesn't print money. That money
15 comes out of the pocket of New York, New Yorkers.
16 They pay the bill. Whether it's 200 billion,
17 300 billion, 400 billion, that's how much it
18 costs to live in New York State. That's how much
19 the people -- we want to talk about the rich, the
20 poor, the middle class, and we want to point
21 fingers at everybody so that we fool people into
22 thinking it's not coming out of their pocket.
23 It's coming out of your pocket, New Yorkers.
24 That's the bill that you get at the end of the
25 year.
5689
1 And so that's the issue we have on
2 this side of the aisle, my friends, is that,
3 yeah, we're bailing out maybe the mayor of
4 New York City and his policies, and the last
5 mayor's policies, and the one before that. But
6 the people never seem to get the benefit.
7 And that's why I'll be voting no.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
9 Lanza to be recorded in the negative.
10 Senator Borrello to explain his
11 vote.
12 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
13 Madam President.
14 First of all, thank you,
15 Senator Bailey, for recognizing me. I can't
16 think of a better thing to be doing on my
17 birthday than staying here till the wee hours of
18 the morning debating.
19 I think what I want to explain is
20 that it's not so much the bailout. You know,
21 when someone comes to you that's fallen on hard
22 times and they need some help and they ask you
23 for some money, you might want to ask them, What
24 are you going to do to change your life to make
25 sure that you're not ending up in the same
5690
1 situation again?
2 That's not happening here. No one's
3 being asked to justify what they're going to do
4 to right the ship. We're just going to pour more
5 money into the hole and hope that it doesn't
6 happen again, just to get them through the
7 election cycle or through the next budget.
8 What are we asking these
9 municipalities that they're doing to make things
10 better so that that gap, that hole in their
11 budget doesn't open up again? That hasn't
12 happened.
13 I represent the City of Dunkirk.
14 The City of Dunkirk is paying back the
15 high-interest loan that was granted a year ago
16 today. The City of Dunkirk wasn't on that list.
17 The City of Dunkirk really does need a control
18 board, as I suspect many of these municipalities
19 need. Some of them actually have, and they've
20 weakened those control boards, watered them down,
21 and put them back in the deficit that they're in.
22 The City of Buffalo is probably the greatest
23 example of that. They weakened the control
24 board, and now they're in the hole to the tune of
25 $55 million or more.
5691
1 What are we doing to change the
2 outcome, to get a better result for the taxpayers
3 and the people of New York State? And the answer
4 is nothing.
5 I'll be voting no. Thank you.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
7 Borrello to be recorded in the negative.
8 Are there any other members wishing
9 to explain their vote?
10 Seeing and hearing none,
11 Senator Harckham to close. We know, thank you.
12 Senator Harckham to close.
13 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Thank you very
14 much, Madam President. I'll be very brief.
15 I've heard a lot about "nothing for
16 our municipality." We're going to be taking up
17 the capital budget very shortly. I'd like to
18 point out to colleagues that we will be
19 increasing CHIPS funding, which is central to all
20 of our municipalities' ability to pave our local
21 roads, by $50 million. And that's on top of the
22 $50 million increase last year. That's
23 $100 million.
24 We also talk about the need for more
25 state water funding for sewers and water
5692
1 projects. In that bill we are going to be
2 increasing funding by $250 million, 50 of it
3 dedicated solely to rural communities, and the
4 other 175 million will be going towards
5 housing-related water-quality infrastructure.
6 That's for all of our municipalities.
7 But the $250 million increase is
8 transformative. As we know, the WIIA funding is
9 oversubscribed. All of our municipalities need
10 it, urban, suburban and rural. There are some
11 big wins for all our communities in this budget.
12 I vote aye, Mr. President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
14 Harckham to be recorded in the affirmative.
15 Announce the results.
16 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
17 Calendar 1331, voting in the negative are
18 Senators Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick,
19 Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Lanza, Martins,
20 Mattera, Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt,
21 Palumbo, Rhoads, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk and Weik.
22 Ayes, 45. Nays, 18.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
24 is passed.
25 Senator Gianaris.
5693
1 SENATOR GIANARIS: We are now in
2 the evening hours. It is 6:02. Let's continue
3 on with Calendar Number 1333, please.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5 Secretary will read.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 1333, Assembly Bill Number 10007C, an act to
8 amend Part H of Chapter 59 of the Laws of 2011.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
10 Lanza, why do you rise?
11 SENATOR LANZA: Thank you,
12 Mr. President. I believe there's an amendment at
13 the desk. I waive the reading of that amendment
14 and ask that you recognize Senator Borrello.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
16 you, Senator Lanza.
17 Upon review of the amendment, in
18 accordance with Rule 6, Section 4B, I rule it
19 nongermane and out of order at this time.
20 SENATOR LANZA: Accordingly,
21 Mr. President, I appeal the ruling of the chair
22 and ask that Senator Borrello be heard on the
23 appeal.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 appeal has been made and recognized, and
5694
1 Senator Borrello may be heard.
2 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
3 Mr. President.
4 I rise to explain why this amendment
5 is germane to this budget bill. Because we are
6 about to discuss the most expensive, most
7 wasteful Medicaid program in the country, and
8 pouring more money into that. And what this
9 amendment calls for is an audit of every budget
10 item, every line item in New York's budget by an
11 independent third party auditor, the largest, of
12 course, being Medicaid.
13 Medicaid right now is going to be
14 almost half of this gigantic $268 billion budget,
15 about $125 billion. And yet we have not done a
16 thing to address some of the amazingly wasteful
17 and expensive programs in Medicaid that right now
18 are costing taxpayers billions.
19 Wasteful -- waste, fraud and abuse,
20 words that have been used by Tom DiNapoli, our
21 Comptroller, billions of dollars of waste, fraud
22 and abuse -- $1.2 billion that was sent to people
23 who don't even live in New York State. Medicaid
24 benefits being paid out to people that don't live
25 in the State of New York.
5695
1 We have an interesting number from
2 the Empire Center. Apparently there are about
3 5.5 million New Yorkers that are actually
4 income-eligible for Medicaid, yet we have
5 8.5 million people on Medicaid in New York.
6 That's 3 million people -- and I'm going to put
7 "people" in quotes, because we don't know if it's
8 actually people. Much of it is I'm sure fraud,
9 people that have passed away, that moved away,
10 people that are billing for fraudulent services
11 that actually aren't being provided. And yet
12 nothing has been done about that.
13 And now we have "Medicaid's Missing
14 Million," another Empire Center report. If you
15 all recall, the Empire Center did a FOIL request
16 for the qualifications of everyone on Medicaid.
17 And it took nine months and a lawsuit for the
18 Department of Medicaid to actually deliver some
19 results. And in the end, they refused, flat-out
20 refused to verify a million people.
21 If each one of those people -- each
22 one of those, quote, unquote, people, because we
23 don't know what these expenses are truly
24 attributed to -- are each costing a minimal
25 amount of, say, $10,000 a year to New York State
5696
1 taxpayers, that's $10 billion. That's a lot of
2 money that could pay for an independent audit.
3 And that's what this amendment will
4 do. It will audit New York State's budget. And
5 in the end, it will probably yield tens of
6 billions of dollars, billions with a B. That's
7 money that we could return to the people of
8 New York State to lower taxes, to provide better
9 services, to fill more potholes. That's what
10 this amendment will do.
11 So if you vote no on this, you are
12 saying we don't want to know. You want to cover
13 your eyes and say, we don't want to know what's
14 going on in New York State's budget. We want to
15 continue to allow fraud, waste and abuse to
16 continue on in New York State.
17 Why? I don't know the answer to
18 that. We need an audit. That's what this
19 amendment does. Let's audit the most expensive
20 Medicaid program in America, and let's do it now
21 by voting yes on this amendment.
22 Thank you, Mr. President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
24 you, Senator Borrello.
25 I again want to remind the house
5697
1 that this vote is on the procedures of the house
2 and the ruling of the chair.
3 Those in favor of overruling the
4 chair, please signify by saying aye.
5 (Response of "Aye.")
6 SENATOR LANZA: Show of hands.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: A show of
8 hands has been requested and so ordered.
9 Announce the results.
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 22.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 ruling of the chair stands, and the bill-in-chief
13 is before the house.
14 Senator Gallivan, why do you rise?
15 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Would the
16 sponsor answer some questions about Medicaid in
17 general first?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Medicaid,
19 I believe that would be -- Senator Serrano,
20 that's Senator Rivera? Yes.
21 Senator Rivera, do you yield?
22 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes, I will.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Through you,
5698
1 Mr. President. Can the sponsor tell me, is there
2 anything in this budget that would increase
3 oversight of New York's Medicaid program?
4 (Pause.)
5 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
6 Mr. President. We have both an agency -- OMIG,
7 which is the Office of Medicaid Inspector
8 General -- as well as an office in the
9 Attorney General's office that is dedicated to
10 the -- to identifying waste, fraud and abuse.
11 I just -- I do think it's important
12 to kind of linger on this for a second. It is
13 indeed -- Mr. President, through you, obviously.
14 It is indeed an expensive program. It is an
15 expensive program because we have so many
16 working-class folks who without this program
17 would not have access to any level of healthcare
18 whatsoever.
19 I'd ask my colleagues whether we
20 would -- we should cut, you know, funding to
21 their hospitals, whether we should cut funding to
22 the nursing homes that serve their constituents.
23 I'd really love to hear from them in that regard.
24 But as it relates to waste, fraud
25 and abuse, I do think that there is -- that we
5699
1 have agencies that certainly could work a little
2 bit better, but we both have the Office of
3 Medicaid Inspector General as well as offices of
4 the -- within the Attorney General's office that
5 investigate instances of fraud in the program.
6 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Would the
7 sponsor continue to yield?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 Senator yields.
13 SENATOR GALLIVAN: I do understand,
14 Mr. President, that OMIG does exist. My question
15 is, is there anything new in this budget to
16 increase oversight or to uncover additional
17 fraud, waste or abuse that has not been done
18 before?
19 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
20 Mr. President, no, there is not.
21 But once again, there is the notion
22 that there obviously must be -- there must be
23 something amiss, there must be something virulent
24 under the hood, there must be something that we
25 must identify because it is impossible that we
5700
1 could be spending this much money to take care of
2 people. That's got to be it.
3 So -- but no, Mr. President, there
4 is no -- nothing new in this budget related to
5 oversight.
6 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Will the sponsor
7 continue to yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 Senator yields.
13 SENATOR GALLIVAN: So we heard in
14 an earlier debate, with some back and forth
15 between Senator Martins and Senator Rivera, about
16 the amount of money New York spends on Medicaid,
17 in the neighborhood this year, as proposed,
18 $125 billion, which represents an 89 percent
19 increase since 2019. That's in the state share.
20 We are number one in spending per
21 capita in the nation. We are 77 percent above
22 the national average. Year over year, the
23 state's share -- if my numbers are correct -- is
24 increasing by $4.3 billion, which is almost
25 10 percent.
5701
1 What accounts for this increase?
2 (Pause.)
3 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
4 Mr. President. Well, first of all, it is
5 important to remember that until we are able to
6 pass the New York Health Act to be able to
7 fundamentally change the way that healthcare is
8 organized, healthcare is always going to be
9 incredibly expensive. And it will be expensive
10 regardless.
11 But because we're choosing to pay
12 for it the way that we're paying for it, we have
13 to abide by the same market forces that impact
14 anything else, which means inflation. Healthcare
15 costs are more expensive every year. We have to
16 remember that some of these numbers relate to
17 taking care of institutions that are not just in
18 Democratic districts, but they're in Republican
19 districts all over the state.
20 We're also talking about the fact
21 that we are, in this state, trying to take care
22 of more people than they do in other states, and
23 in ways that other states do not.
24 And we provide -- and we try to
25 provide the type of quality services that make
5702
1 sure that people who would not be able to afford
2 care otherwise would be able to get services to
3 keep them healthy.
4 For all these reasons, it is indeed
5 an expensive proposition. And on a year-to-year
6 basis, there are increases much like in the rest
7 of the healthcare system, period.
8 But I will remind us again that if
9 we were to fundamentally reorganize the way that
10 we pay for things, we'd actually be able to pay a
11 lot less for healthcare.
12 But as it relates to the way that
13 things are working right now, those are some of
14 the reasons why -- through you, Mr. President --
15 we have to spend more every year.
16 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Will the sponsor
17 continue to yield?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
19 sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR GALLIVAN: I will note the
24 sponsor's belief in the New York Health Act and
25 just simply respectfully disagree with it. But I
5703
1 want to focus on this proposed budget and what's
2 before us today.
3 So we know we've had an 89 percent
4 increase in spending. We also know that
5 enrollment -- enrollment has gone down since the
6 pandemic. We have a nearly 10 percent
7 year-over-year increase proposed in this budget
8 that's $4.3 billion. The Division of Budget
9 estimates that some of the reduced funding from
10 the federal government only amounts to 2,
11 $2.5 billion. So even if we were to set that
12 aside, we're still seeing billions of dollars in
13 an increase.
14 And my question for the sponsor is,
15 what are we spending it on that's different than
16 last year?
17 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
18 Mr. President. It is again, indeed, cost from
19 year to year that has seen an increase.
20 But I'll repeat again, the cost of
21 healthcare related -- whether it is privately
22 financed or publicly financed, is still going up.
23 And if we're talking about the rate of inflation,
24 I would point to maybe the cost of care for
25 people who have privately funded plans, who have
5704
1 commercial plans. It is likely that the
2 percentages that they've had to pay on a
3 year-to-year basis are actually more than the
4 7.5 percent that we're talking about here.
5 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Will the sponsor
6 continue to yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
8 sponsor yield?
9 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Does the sponsor
13 believe that the global cap, the global
14 Medicaid cap serves a purpose?
15 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
16 Mr. President. No, I do not. I have not
17 believed that it has played a purpose for a very
18 long time, and I argue that we should do away
19 with it every year.
20 But to save many people many
21 questions, I will answer one version of it right
22 now. We're debating the budget we have in front
23 of us, which is the best that we could get under
24 the circumstances after negotiating for way too
25 damn long, in my view.
5705
1 But as it relates to this particular
2 issue, I've never believed in the -- I have -- if
3 I believed in the global cap at the beginning of
4 its creation, I certainly do not believe in it
5 now and for years have carried a bill to do away
6 with it.
7 And I also suggest that we -- during
8 our one-houses, we also try to do away with it in
9 our suggested budget.
10 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And I would
11 agree, in a sense -- but for different reasons,
12 Mr. President -- with Senator Rivera that the
13 global cap really doesn't seem to serve a
14 purpose.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
16 Gallivan, are you on the bill or asking him to
17 yield?
18 SENATOR GALLIVAN: On the bill
19 briefly.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
21 Gallivan on the bill.
22 SENATOR GALLIVAN: I agree that the
23 global cap doesn't really seem to serve a purpose
24 when we're looking at an 89 percent increase in
25 spending since 2019, a nearly 10 percent increase
5706
1 in spending from year to year.
2 And we've got a number of things
3 that are not included in the global cap, so we're
4 not transparent. We're not telling the public
5 the truth. And it sits there and yet we ignore
6 it year after year, and it's something we ought
7 to be paying attention to. It's too late for
8 this year's budget, but hopefully we can
9 undertake it next year to get this spending under
10 control.
11 If I could move -- I would ask the
12 sponsor to yield if I could move to Part O, which
13 has to do with the Healthcare Stability Fund
14 investment.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Part O is
16 also Senator Rivera.
17 Do you yield?
18 SENATOR RIVERA: Before I yield,
19 I'll say to everything that he said about the
20 cap, ditto.
21 But then I yield.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: A ditto,
23 and the sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR GALLIVAN: So we know
25 several years ago we had passed in the budget an
5707
1 MCO tax to be paid over several years, something
2 I didn't agree with at the time, but nonetheless
3 it was passed.
4 And with the -- again, some of the
5 dictates from the federal government, what
6 originally was planned is no more. However, they
7 did provide a waiver that the funding would
8 continue through the end of this calendar year,
9 so through December 2026. And I believe that
10 amounts to a total of about 1.3 billion that is
11 in this budget.
12 And it's been -- it's been kind of
13 whacked up, it's been carved up into four
14 different areas. And so of this 1.3 billion,
15 706 million allocated to hospitals, 480 million
16 to the nursing homes, 20 million to assisted
17 living, and 80 million to FQHCs. My question is,
18 what policy or methodology was followed to carve
19 this up in this manner?
20 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
21 Mr. President. It wasn't necessarily a policy,
22 it was just a discussion, a negotiation.
23 There's always -- it is clear that
24 every one of these -- the entities that will be
25 impacted, whether we're talking about nursing
5708
1 homes or FQHCs or hospitals, each one of them was
2 arguing that they should get a little bit more.
3 Ultimately we had to make the decision, and this
4 is the breakdown as it -- so it's broken down
5 exactly as my colleague pointed it out.
6 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Will the sponsor
7 continue to yield?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Who made the
14 decision on how this was broken up?
15 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
16 Mr. President. We know how this works. It's
17 just a back-and-forth with certainly someone in
18 the back-and-forth having more weight than the
19 other folks involved in the conversation.
20 But ultimately this is a
21 negotiation. We go back and forth, we say how
22 about this, how about this, how do you want this,
23 how about that.
24 So it wasn't -- you know, it's
25 not -- I don't think that in this enormous
5709
1 budget, whether we're talking about this bill or
2 any of the other bills that we have debated or
3 will debate, it's unlikely that we might be able
4 to say, like, this one particular thing was
5 decided by this one person. Instead, it's just a
6 back-and-forth, and this is just the product of
7 that negotiation.
8 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Would the
9 sponsor continue to yield?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
11 sponsor yield?
12 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Would the
16 sponsor agree that a good number of hospitals and
17 nursing homes in the state are really in a
18 fiscally somewhat distressed manner, without
19 defining a distressed hospital, but they're
20 hurting overall, and this funding is meant to
21 alleviate some of that?
22 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
23 Mr. President, I certainly would. Although I
24 believe that I would probably use less PG-rated
25 language to refer to their condition.
5710
1 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Would the
2 sponsor continue to yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
4 sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Was there any
9 consideration given to the long-term funding
10 method for hospitals and nursing homes, and the
11 others, as it related to the distribution of this
12 funding? Or was it just carved up?
13 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you
14 Mr. President. If I understand the question,
15 there's a constant -- so I've been here for a
16 long time. And I've been the chair for, I don't
17 know, coming up on a decade, maybe. And
18 during -- certainly during that time I've
19 constantly argued that we need to really rethink
20 how we do this entire thing.
21 I don't think that we are -- that we
22 think in long-term about how to make sure that
23 institutions which serve the most vulnerable, and
24 therefore are the most vulnerable, are supported.
25 I've constantly talked about how we need to
5711
1 retool some of the formulas, how we need to
2 rethink how we do this.
3 So I certainly would not disagree
4 with my -- if I understood my colleague
5 correctly, I do not disagree that there certainly
6 needs to be a rethinking of how we do this in the
7 long term.
8 But as it relates to this, we were
9 lucky enough to slip right underneath the cutoff
10 to be able to receive this money. We did not --
11 you know, we would not have received it unless we
12 got that approval from the federal government.
13 We got it right before they cut it off for
14 everybody else. And therefore we'll have a
15 little bit left over to -- we'll have some of
16 this to be able to patch up some of the -- you
17 know, some of the parts of the system that are a
18 little bit broken.
19 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Would the
20 sponsor continue to yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR RIVERA: Yup.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 sponsor yields.
5712
1 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Recognizing the
2 financial challenges that these entities, the
3 hospitals, nursing homes and others have, and the
4 fact that this budget didn't really necessarily
5 change at all the current Medicaid financing
6 structure for them, and we lose this funding at
7 the end of the year, what do we do next year when
8 we don't have this 1.3 billion? And how do we
9 address their needs into the future?
10 (Pause.)
11 SENATOR RIVERA: So through you,
12 Mr. President, it is true that there is -- that
13 this is a limited amount of money and that we're
14 only going to be able to -- this particular MCO
15 tax is one that is -- that is going to run out.
16 We do, however -- have introduced
17 another MCO tax that is targeted differently,
18 therefore we still require federal approval for
19 it but it's a different one than this and will
20 produce at least a little bit of money.
21 But the reality is that the cuts
22 that are coming from the federal government which
23 has been impacting us on a rolling basis are not
24 done yet. And there is -- since there is this
25 obsession with making sure that we spend less
5713
1 money on taking care of poor working-class people
2 while we give more money to the wealthy so they
3 can create jobs or whatever it is that they do,
4 we're going to see a lot of changes to publicly
5 financed programs that are going to continue to
6 impact the state and are going to continue to
7 impact working-class folks across the state up
8 until next year.
9 And so when we are dealing with next
10 year in January we're going to have to navigate
11 it, because there's going to be even less
12 resources to be able to deal with. We hope that
13 some of what we're doing here is making some of
14 this money flow with some increases to some
15 institutions so that they can kind of, I don't
16 know, kind of build little fortresses, if you
17 will. But yeah, no, things are going to get bad
18 and worse and worse and worse.
19 SENATOR GALLIVAN: On the bill,
20 Mr. President.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:
22 Senator Gallivan on the bill.
23 SENATOR GALLIVAN: I'm very
24 concerned with the trajectory of our Medicaid
25 spending, that 89 percent state share increase
5714
1 since 2019, nearly 10 percent this year.
2 The Budget Director is projecting
3 that by fiscal year 2030, it will increase, if it
4 stays at this rate, by another 29 percent. I
5 don't know how we're able to continue to afford
6 this, how it's sustainable, and how it doesn't
7 hurt the New Yorkers that are paying for it.
8 They have many needs. We've heard
9 different budget debates over the last several
10 days -- education, infrastructure, the
11 environment, social services. And New Yorkers,
12 in my belief, are at a breaking point.
13 And yet at the same time, we heard
14 Senator Borrello list some of the fraud, waste,
15 abuse that has been uncovered by the New York
16 State Comptroller and other reports, and yet
17 we're not doing anything more to uncover it or
18 doing anything more to ensure proper oversight of
19 this plan.
20 I think we're going in the wrong
21 direction on this. But I want to say I recognize
22 the need for us to help other New Yorkers. I do
23 recognize that. But we have to do it, in my
24 belief, in a fiscally responsible manner. We
25 have to ensure that taxpayer dollars are spent
5715
1 properly and every single dollar is accountable.
2 So I will be voting no on this
3 budget for those reasons, Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
5 you, Senator Gallivan.
6 Senator Borrello, why do you rise?
7 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
8 would the sponsor yield for a question.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: What
10 part, Senator Borrello?
11 SENATOR BORRELLO: Oh, I'm sorry.
12 Just general questions on Medicaid. Is that
13 allowable?
14 SENATOR RIVERA: That is indeed
15 allowable.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: It is
17 allowable. Senator Rivera would be happy to
18 yield.
19 SENATOR RIVERA: But he said one
20 question, Mr. President, I just want to --
21 SENATOR BORRELLO: Well, I've got
22 to do them one at a time, you know.
23 (Laughter.)
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Excellent
25 retort.
5716
1 Senator Rivera yields. Senator
2 Borrello, you have the floor.
3 SENATOR BORRELLO: Through you,
4 Mr. President. Thank you for the indulgence,
5 first of all.
6 I guess my first question -- this is
7 really a yes or no question -- do you think that
8 it's right that Medicaid, New York State Medicaid
9 pays more money to a transportation broker for
10 one taxi ride for one non-Emergency Medicaid
11 doctor's appointment than it pays to a nursing
12 home for a day's care for some of the most
13 vulnerable people in our state?
14 Do you think that that's okay, we
15 pay more for a taxi ride than we do for the
16 complete cost of care for a day for a nursing
17 home resident?
18 (Pause.)
19 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
20 Mr. President, I probably need a little bit more
21 information, because it is not as
22 cut-and-dried -- how far was that ride, what
23 rates are being paid to that particular nursing
24 home, what acuity as it relates to a particular
25 patient.
5717
1 So there's -- there's -- I know what
2 you're trying to get at, but I think that your
3 question requires a lot more details to be able
4 to answer more accurately. Through you,
5 Mr. President.
6 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
7 will the sponsor continue to yield?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR RIVERA: Ah, a second
11 question. I yield.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR BORRELLO: Foreshadowing.
15 Through you, Mr. President. Okay,
16 let's go to an easier question. Do you think
17 it's right that two men in Queens were paid
18 $120 million for essentially, you know, giving
19 Chinese takeout for a program that was supposed
20 to actually be some kind of a dayhab service?
21 I'm sure you're familiar with this.
22 It was a pretty big story, $120 million paid to
23 two men, by Medicaid, to essentially give to-go
24 meals that averaged about, I don't know, I think
25 it was about $10 or $12 and they were charging
5718
1 $85? Do you think that that's okay, that
2 Medicaid should be paying that much more to an
3 essentially fraudulent program that's now under
4 investigation?
5 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
6 Mr. President, I'm actually not aware of this
7 situation, so I couldn't really comment on it.
8 But I would say that I am of the --
9 I absolutely agree, wholeheartedly, with the
10 notion that government money should be used
11 responsibly, particularly when it relates to the
12 program that I believe saves lives, such as
13 relates to Medicaid overall. And so therefore
14 wasting Medicaid dollars is not something that I
15 would ever be supportive of.
16 It is, however, some -- and I don't
17 necessarily think that anybody in this room today
18 has done it, although that -- you know, we're
19 still early. But there's a suggestion that
20 there's something perverse about this program
21 that obviously there must be something hidden
22 that must be discovered.
23 Now, if there is -- as, again, I'm
24 not familiar with the story that my colleague
25 mentioned. But if that story is public, it
5719
1 probably means that those people were caught,
2 that whatever fraud they were perpetrating was
3 identified, and that these folks are being held
4 accountable.
5 So it seems to me that if we're
6 saying that the evidence that there is -- that
7 there's fraud that is hidden is because we have
8 found fraud and we have identified it and we have
9 gotten people to be held responsible for the
10 things that they've done, it seems to me to be a
11 little, you know, like what are we talking about?
12 Like we have identified it, and when we identify
13 it, we hold those folks accountable.
14 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
15 will the sponsor continue to yield?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will
17 the sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
20 Senator yields.
21 SENATOR BORRELLO: So to dovetail
22 off your question, do you think we catch anywhere
23 close to a hundred percent of the fraud that goes
24 on in the Medicaid program?
25 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
5720
1 Mr. President, I have no way of knowing that.
2 But, you know, I do -- I will tell you there's --
3 you know, humans are not perfect, so certainly
4 there's bad actors everywhere. And so certainly
5 I think there are probably folks who we're not
6 catching that are committing all sorts of crimes,
7 all sorts of white-collar crimes, for example,
8 that we are either, you know, choosing to ignore
9 or not catching at all. So there certainly would
10 be -- there probably are things that we're not
11 discovering.
12 But again, it seems that the attacks
13 are about just insisting that there must be
14 something perverse that we must discover, and if
15 we are -- and if we don't and if we try to
16 utilize -- if we don't -- if we utilize just the
17 tools that we have so far, which in many
18 instances have identified people who are
19 committing crimes, have been able to hold them
20 accountable, have been able to put them in jail,
21 et cetera, et cetera, that unless we use -- if we
22 use only those, then it's -- obviously we're not
23 serious enough about finding all of the bad
24 stuff.
25 I would love to be able to go like
5721
1 that (snapping fingers) and find everybody who's
2 doing bad things, but it is probably impossible
3 for me to do it in any human endeavor, whether it
4 be public use of Medicaid dollars or anything
5 else.
6 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
7 will the sponsor continue to yield?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR RIVERA: Yup.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR BORRELLO: All right. With
14 all that being said, because we're talking about
15 fraud, let's move on to CDPAP. Do you think that
16 CDPAP and this transfer from the fiscal
17 intermediaries, the small businesses across
18 New York State that got shut down, to this single
19 out-of-state fiscal intermediary has been a good
20 thing?
21 SENATOR RIVERA: (Laughing.)
22 Mr. President, at the risk of repeating myself, I
23 believe that I have been one of the absolute
24 loudest -- not just because I'm Puerto Rican --
25 critics of that move ever since it happened. I
5722
1 have never been happy with it, not when it
2 happened, not during the transition, not now and
3 probably not ever.
4 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
5 will the sponsor continue to yield?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
7 sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR RIVERA: Yup.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR BORRELLO: I'm well aware
12 that was a tee-ball for you, so -- so as long as
13 we're continuing on with the Governor and her
14 handling of Medicaid and Medicaid expenses, do
15 you believe that it's right that we paid out
16 $1.2 billion to people that don't live in the
17 State of New York in Medicaid benefits? That's
18 what the Comptroller identified recently.
19 (Pause.)
20 SENATOR RIVERA: So Mr. President,
21 again, I'm unaware of the particular story that
22 my colleague is referring to.
23 But I would say that, if I'm not
24 mistaken, what that is in reference to is a
25 capitated plan -- capitated money that is paid
5723
1 into plans on a capitated basis and then having
2 people within the population that they're
3 supposed to cover who are deemed ineligible, and
4 therefore there would be money in there that is
5 being spent on folks that are not eligible
6 because they live out of state.
7 But I'll repeat again, if we're
8 saying that the Comptroller found it and
9 identified it -- and again, I'm not familiar with
10 this particular study. But if we're saying that
11 the Comptroller found it, identified it, and we
12 are talking about it on the floor of the Senate,
13 it means that we probably figured that out, that
14 we probably identified it, and that we probably
15 have put -- we've acted as a state to recover
16 that money. So, you know.
17 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
18 will the sponsor continue to yield?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
20 sponsor yield?
21 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR BORRELLO: Yes, they
25 identified it, but I don't think there's any way
5724
1 they actually get that money back. You know, the
2 Comptroller is not an enforcement agency.
3 But I guess the last -- well, one of
4 the -- well, the last question on this particular
5 topic is the Empire Center FOILed the
6 qualifications of everyone in New York State
7 that's on Medicaid. The Office of Medicaid, the
8 Medicaid Director flat out just refused. They
9 had to sue. Nine months later, Empire Center got
10 a partial answer. But as I referenced in the
11 amendment, that they actually have -- to this day
12 have not provided information on nearly 1 million
13 registered recipients who are receiving money,
14 and the Office of the Medicaid Inspector General
15 has not verified this.
16 Do you think it's right that this
17 FOIL request was ignored and that there are a
18 million people that we don't know -- quote,
19 unquote, people -- are qualified? Do you think
20 that that's okay, that the State of New York
21 shouldn't be able to answer the question to the
22 taxpayers of New York, are those million
23 people -- do they actually exist and do they
24 qualify for Medicaid?
25 SENATOR RIVERA: Mr. President,
5725
1 through you. There's a big difference between
2 the State of New York not being able to identify
3 certain folks who we're paying money for their
4 medical care, and the Empire Center having that
5 information.
6 I am again unaware -- I mean, I wish
7 I had the Cliff Notes of all the different
8 stories that we were going to be hit with today,
9 and I would have studied them. But in this case
10 I don't necessarily know this particular -- this
11 particular request.
12 But there is -- but the idea --
13 again, this is very similar and we've heard
14 conversations like this before, it's the same
15 thing as voter fraud. It's this notion that
16 there obviously must be something there that's
17 hidden that we have to uncover, because if we
18 don't, then, you know, we'll have all this money
19 being wasted, all this money being stolen -- and
20 again, in this case, by poor working-class
21 people.
22 Again, I don't claim that any system
23 is perfect, and I do not claim that our Medicaid
24 system is perfect. God knows that I have many
25 issues with it and constantly try to do
5726
1 everything I can to make it better.
2 But there's these constant kind of
3 dog-whistle suggestions that there has to be
4 something that we have to uncover, that we have
5 to look further, that we have to flip some more
6 things around and maybe we'll find something.
7 So, you know, I think that in this
8 case I am unfamiliar with this request from the
9 Empire Center, but -- so the Empire Center didn't
10 get whatever names they wanted for the story that
11 they were writing, too bad. But whether the
12 state, which has to actually make an effort to be
13 able to identify whether someone is eligible, and
14 when we find that somebody is doing -- not doing
15 that, then that -- then the people who do that
16 should be held accountable.
17 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President, I
18 promise, my last question, if the sponsor will
19 continue to yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR RIVERA: I doubt very much
23 that will be the last question.
24 (Laughter.)
25 SENATOR RIVERA: However,
5727
1 Mr. President, I will still yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR BORRELLO: Through you,
5 Mr. President. The federal government right now
6 is pursuing fraud in Medicaid. We've seen it
7 uncovered in Minnesota to the tune -- I think it
8 was $9 billion and counting. And now they have
9 their sights set on New York State. And I think
10 what they're going to find in New York State is
11 going to be -- is going to be well and above what
12 we've seen in Minnesota and other states.
13 We have the opportunity to, as we
14 discussed in the amendment, to actually, you
15 know, have a better control over this by auditing
16 our own system, rooting out the fraud before the
17 federal government comes in.
18 Do you think it would be a prudent
19 thing for us to do, to audit the Medicaid program
20 here in New York State and root out the fraud
21 ourselves before the federal government does?
22 SENATOR RIVERA: Mr. President,
23 through you. I would if I thought that the
24 federal government was doing any of this in good
25 faith. I do not. I do not believe the federal
5728
1 government is doing this in good faith.
2 I believe that they're going after
3 Democratically held -- we were talking earlier
4 about this, right, we were targeting Democratic
5 states, Democratic cities or Democratic counties
6 or whatever.
7 In this case we have the
8 demonstrated actions of a federal government that
9 is using the federal administration to target its
10 political enemies. It is going after Minnesota.
11 It is coming after us. I do not believe it is
12 doing it in good faith. I do not believe it.
13 If I believed that it was doing it
14 in good faith, then maybe I would agree with you.
15 But I will go back to what I said earlier. We
16 have entities, whether it's the Attorney General,
17 who I believe in deeply, and the work that the --
18 the name of the office always escapes me. What
19 is it? MFCU. It's a weird acronym that always
20 escapes me.
21 But it's the office within the
22 Attorney General's office that looks at this type
23 of thing. And OMIG, the Office of the Medicaid
24 Inspector General. We have entities that do this
25 work.
5729
1 And certainly, again, once again, it
2 is not a perfect program. But no, I do not
3 believe that we should be preceding whatever
4 craziness the federal government is going to try
5 to do by just basically saying -- by obeying in
6 advance and saying, Yes, of course, of course,
7 master, of course. Of course, whatever you say.
8 We're not doing that.
9 I do not believe in good faith that
10 they are doing this. I don't believe they're
11 doing it in good faith.
12 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
13 on the bill.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:
15 Senator Borrello on the bill.
16 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
17 Senator Rivera.
18 Yeah, the point of my last question
19 was if you truly believe -- and I believe you
20 do -- that the federal government's not acting in
21 good faith, then we should absolutely be
22 reporting this ourselves. We should be rooting
23 out the fraud and abuse.
24 So that's what I'm suggesting.
25 That's what my amendment earlier suggested, that
5730
1 we have an independent third-party audit. I
2 think it's desperately needed.
3 It's desperately needed because we
4 have the largest Medicaid program in the country
5 per capita, we spend more than anybody else
6 per capita, and yet every single day I hear from
7 nursing homes, hospitals, senior centers, people
8 that deal with the -- people that serve some of
9 the most vulnerable people in New York State
10 through the Medicaid program, and they aren't
11 getting enough.
12 They aren't getting enough. Nursing
13 homes lose money every single day on Medicaid
14 patients because our reimbursement rate does not
15 cover the cost of care.
16 And yet we have a program that is
17 absolutely filled with fraud. How do I know
18 that? Because we have uncovered the fraud. But
19 it is the tip of the iceberg that we have
20 uncovered. Because the program itself,
21 unfortunately, whether it was intentional or not,
22 is designed to incubate fraud. That's the point
23 here.
24 Our hospitals should not be losing
25 money because someone on Medicaid shows up at the
5731
1 ER. Our nursing homes should not be losing money
2 because someone who can't afford anything but
3 Medicaid is there because they have to be cared
4 for.
5 And this program that we have has
6 millions of people -- quote, unquote, people,
7 because we don't really know if they actually
8 exist -- that are not qualified and yet are still
9 a drain on the system.
10 That's why we need an audit. That's
11 why we need accountability. That's why we need
12 to hold those accountable -- not just for the
13 fraud, but the waste. The CDPAP program that you
14 and I both agree is not good. The reimbursement
15 rates that you and I both agree are not enough.
16 We have the means within our own
17 state to fix that, to right the ship. We could
18 audit this program. We could root out the fraud.
19 And we could take that money, probably reduce the
20 total expense, and still give those people that
21 deal with our most vulnerable citizens --
22 developmental disabilities, senior citizens --
23 give those people the money that they need to
24 care properly, to stay in business.
25 Just this year alone I've had
5732
1 two nursing homes close in my district, just this
2 year. More to come. They can't stay open.
3 Hospitals that are closing, hemorrhaging -- not
4 bleeding money, hemorrhaging money.
5 And yet we refuse to hold those
6 folks in charge accountable for where the money
7 is being spent and how it's being spent. We
8 refuse to open our eyes to where the problems
9 really are.
10 You can't hate the federal
11 government that much to want to do this to our
12 own people, to our senior citizens, to the people
13 with developmental disabilities. You can't hate
14 the system enough to justify what you're doing.
15 I can't think of one single thing
16 right now that would justify not wanting to audit
17 something that is almost 50 percent of our
18 budget. I'm going to repeat those numbers:
19 $125 billion, with a B, of a $268 billion budget.
20 That's what Medicaid is costing us. If anything
21 in your household income, your personal household
22 income was eating up half of the money you made
23 and you weren't sure where that money was going,
24 would you just say, Ah, it's fine, I'm sure we'll
25 figure it out at some point? No, of course not.
5733
1 You'd want to know why.
2 This is a cancer that is growing
3 within our budget, a financial cancer. It's
4 growing bigger and bigger and more malignant, and
5 we're not doing a thing to treat the cancer.
6 So you can hate what the federal
7 government is doing, but at the end of the day
8 it's the only treatment that cancer is getting.
9 And since we can't do that here, they may have to
10 do it for us. And you probably aren't going to
11 like the results.
12 So I'll be voting no on this.
13 Thank you, Mr. President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
15 you, Senator Borrello.
16 Senator Rivera on the bill.
17 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes, on the bill,
18 just quickly. Through you, Mr. President.
19 So we talk about news stories that
20 they don't tell us they were coming. A news
21 story they didn't know was coming -- headline
22 (reading): Trump administration admits a glaring
23 error in its accusation about New York healthcare
24 fraud.
25 Oz -- and I skimmed a couple of
5734
1 paragraphs down -- Oz claimed that this would
2 be -- Mehmet Oz, the -- that dude over there in
3 Washington, D.C., Dr. Oz, you know him, "claimed
4 that New York's Medicaid program last year
5 provided some 5 million people with personal care
6 services, which assist people in need with basic
7 activities like bathing, grooming, and meal
8 preparation. That would add up to nearly
9 three-fourths of the state's 6.8 million Medicaid
10 enrollees."
11 "But the real number of New Yorkers
12 who used those services last year was about
13 450,000, or between 6 and 7 percent of total
14 enrollees, CMS spokesman Chris Krepich told the
15 Associated Press this week in the agency's first
16 public acknowledgment of the error. He said the
17 agency misidentified New York's approach to
18 applying billing codes and had since refined its
19 methodology."
20 Just one example, Mr. President. I
21 do not take the federal government's efforts. I
22 don't think they're in good faith. I will not
23 respond to the federal government's efforts
24 except in trying to make the program better, to
25 strengthen it -- but not at the cost of the
5735
1 people who we're supposed to serve.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
3 you, Senator Rivera.
4 Senator Helming, why do you rise?
5 SENATOR HELMING: Thank you,
6 Mr. President. If the sponsor will yield for a
7 few questions on rural healthcare.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Rural
9 healthcare is also Senator Rivera.
10 Senator Rivera, do you yield?
11 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
12 Mr. President, I thank my colleague for making
13 clear that she would ask a few questions and not
14 just one.
15 (Laughter.)
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
17 Senator yields.
18 SENATOR HELMING: Thank you.
19 Through you, Mr. President.
20 Senator Rivera, I have to say I do
21 believe that there is something amiss, that it's
22 been found but it hasn't been corrected. And
23 that's what's driving my questions on the budget
24 bill before us.
25 The first issue is the State
5736
1 Comptroller has documented that there are
2 significant healthcare shortages in rural
3 communities. And I'd like to know what in this
4 bill is specifically intended to help us recruit
5 and retain healthcare professionals, doctors and
6 nurses, in our rural communities.
7 (Pause.)
8 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
9 Mr. President. So specifically -- now, it took
10 me a second to kind of gather everything up
11 because the question is -- the answer
12 specifically to the question that my colleague
13 asked is nothing specifically targeted towards
14 rural institutions.
15 However, we do believe that among
16 other things, the targeted healthcare investments
17 for hospitals, for example, as far as rate
18 increases, would help them to do so.
19 I would also point out that although
20 not necessarily earmarked for hiring new staff,
21 since that was the question that my colleague
22 asked, I would say that there is -- there were
23 211 million total for the Rural Healthcare
24 Transformation Program. I know that my colleague
25 will probably ask about that shortly. And that
5737
1 is -- that went through the Aid to Localities,
2 which gives $190.8 million for the Rural
3 Healthcare Transformation Program. That's part
4 of the federal funding from the 211 million that
5 was awarded.
6 There's also, for State Operations,
7 there's $1.2 million for the Rural Healthcare
8 Transformation Program. That's the remaining
9 dollars, right, from the 211 for the operation of
10 it, as well as 9.4 million for the Rural
11 Healthcare Access and Network Development.
12 So there are some things that we
13 should -- that we are trying to do that are
14 targeted at rural healthcare, but not as it
15 relates specifically to hiring of new staff
16 specifically for rural health. That is not
17 something that is quite specifically done in this
18 budget.
19 SENATOR HELMING: Through you,
20 Mr. President, on the bill quickly.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
22 Helming on the bill.
23 SENATOR HELMING: I am so freaking
24 disappointed in that answer. I have been asking
25 about the Rural Healthcare Transformation
5738
1 funding, which is not part of this bill, for
2 weeks now as we do these extenders. And that
3 does not address hiring or staffing at all, has
4 nothing to do with that.
5 And I have sat next to
6 Senator Rivera and asked the commissioner of the
7 Department of Health during our budget hearings
8 over and over again, what specifically are we
9 doing to address the workforce shortages
10 identified by the Comptroller in our rural
11 healthcare hospitals, nursing homes, and
12 everything else? And there's never a specific
13 answer.
14 So through you, Mr. President, if
15 the sponsor will yield for a question.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
17 sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR RIVERA: I will. And I
19 also -- but before I do, I will have to both say
20 that --
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 Senator Rivera, if you'd like -- you
24 were asked to yield to the question, and you can
25 go on the bill after. But I just want to make
5739
1 sure we can --
2 SENATOR RIVERA: I will yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 Senator yields.
5 SENATOR HELMING: Through you,
6 Mr. President. Senator Rivera, another one you
7 and I have discussed.
8 The Rural Ambulance Services Task
9 Force identified serious challenges facing EMS
10 systems. What recommendations of that task force
11 are advanced in this legislation?
12 (Pause.)
13 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
14 Mr. President, I don't believe that anything from
15 that task force made it onto here.
16 But I do know that we did -- we did
17 manage to reject a cut that was in the original
18 Executive proposal that was to -- that went to
19 our ambulances in rural spaces in the State of
20 New York.
21 SENATOR HELMING: Through you,
22 Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to
23 yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
25 sponsor yield?
5740
1 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 Senator yields.
4 SENATOR HELMING: Senator Rivera,
5 another one that we've gone back and forth on.
6 The Comptroller did an audit of the Suicide
7 Prevention Task Force and found that there are so
8 many components that remain unfinished. And that
9 report identified the unique challenges in our
10 rural communities.
11 Which of those recommendations are
12 included in this budget bill?
13 SENATOR RIVERA: So through you,
14 Mr. President, I'm not -- I am not familiar with
15 that report. Although I certainly would welcome
16 my colleague's introducing legislation --
17 sincerely, I would welcome my colleague's
18 introducing legislation.
19 We do have to remember that this is,
20 Mr. President, the -- we have the Governor's
21 proposal and then our efforts to push back on it
22 and try to inject some of our things in there.
23 That's not something that made it to the final
24 version of the budget.
25 SENATOR HELMING: Through you,
5741
1 Mr. President. On the bill quickly.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
3 Helming on the bill.
4 SENATOR HELMING: I appreciate
5 Senator Rivera's comment that I should introduce
6 legislation, because I carry legislation, the
7 Rural Suicide Prevention Bill, that gets passed
8 every year but this year so far in this body, it
9 gets passed through the Assembly, it's moving
10 right now through the Assembly. And every single
11 year that it's been passed by both houses, guess
12 what happens?
13 SENATOR RIVERA: (Inaudible.)
14 SENATOR HELMING: Right, the
15 Governor vetoes it.
16 But hopefully the Majority will
17 bring that bill through and we'll try again.
18 I'll continue on the bill. I have
19 so many more questions I could ask about rural
20 healthcare and what that budget does to really
21 address the issues that have been identified and
22 discussed for years, but I know what the answer's
23 going to be because I studied the bill.
24 The State Comptroller documented
25 healthcare workforce shortages in rural
5742
1 communities across our state. This body created
2 the Rural Ambulance Task Force to identify
3 challenges facing ambulance and EMS services, and
4 they provided recommendations. And
5 Senator Rivera and I, we waited years for those
6 recommendations to get released by the Department
7 of Health. And it's disappointing that when they
8 finally were, nothing happened with them.
9 The state, as I said, created a
10 Suicide Prevention Task Force and yet as the
11 Comptroller pointed out, recommendations remain
12 unfinished. And we hear every year during the
13 budget testimony, and throughout the year, from
14 rural healthcare providers that repeatedly share
15 their concerns.
16 So I asked questions today, as I did
17 during the budget hearings for the past several
18 years: Where in this budget is the plan to
19 recruit and retain the healthcare workforce that
20 rural communities need? Where in this budget is
21 the strategy to strengthen rural EMS and
22 ambulance services? Where in this budget does
23 the Governor and the Majority advance meaningful
24 recommendations on rural suicide prevention?
25 You heard the answers. It's just
5743
1 not there.
2 What I do see is rural communities
3 continuing to lose access to care. Just recently
4 I learned that the Department of Health is
5 reviewing yet another request to close a birthing
6 center in upstate New York. So we know that
7 means, for expectant mothers and families between
8 Oswego and Rochester, they're going to have to
9 travel an hour and 30 minutes, 50 minutes, to get
10 care, that's not just acceptable.
11 I've heard comments today, I've
12 heard someone say we have an obligation to
13 protect New Yorkers, that we should always have a
14 hand behind us to pull someone up alongside us.
15 Well, that's exactly what I'm asking this body to
16 do again. Quit ignoring the data. Quit ignoring
17 the reports and the recommendations. Quit
18 pointing the finger at the federal government --
19 because many of these recommendations came under
20 a different president, and still no action was
21 taken by this body.
22 Don't ignore the needs of people
23 living outside of big cities. I heard something
24 today that was crazy that said that people living
25 outside big cities don't care about other people,
5744
1 almost like we deserve what we're getting. That
2 is so untrue.
3 Mr. President, it's time to take
4 care of the people living in rural communities,
5 make sure that they have access to healthcare.
6 I vote no.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
8 Walczyk, why do you rise?
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you,
10 Mr. President.
11 Would the Senator from the
12 33rd Senate District yield for some questions?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:
14 Senator Rivera, do you yield?
15 SENATOR RIVERA: I yield to the
16 ominous request, Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
20 Mr. President. There's a proposal that was
21 included in the one-house budget resolution,
22 340B, Prescription Drug Anti-Discrimination Act.
23 I know that sits on the third reading of the
24 calendar in this house; it's stuck in committee
25 in the Assembly. But some were hoping, including
5745
1 me, that that would be included in the final
2 budget here. Certainly my Federally Qualified
3 Health Centers would very much appreciate that.
4 Was that included in this final
5 bill?
6 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
7 Mr. President, nope.
8 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
9 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
10 yield?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: Is there a
17 reason, or are we hopeful? Anything that you can
18 give from feedback from third-party negotiations
19 about any sunlight?
20 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
21 Mr. President, it was just one of those things
22 that just didn't make it.
23 We -- the way that we always
24 function is we make it clear as a Majority what
25 our position is. As you know, when we present
5746
1 our one-house budget, we present what our
2 positions are publicly and then we go fight for
3 them at negotiating tables -- again this time,
4 for quite a long time. And we certainly held on
5 to quite a bit of things.
6 But ultimately the way it works is
7 that everybody's got to -- all the partners got
8 to want to dance. And if you're the only one at
9 the table saying we need to include this, we need
10 to include this, and other folks don't agree,
11 eventually you just have to give it up. So
12 ultimately that is what happened here.
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: Sorry to hear
14 that.
15 Mr. President, briefly on the bill,
16 and then I'd ask you to come back in a moment.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:
18 Senator Walczyk on the bill.
19 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you,
20 Mr. President.
21 In February, two guys from Queens
22 were caught bribing seniors with cash, that's how
23 that worked, to use an adult daycare to bilk
24 taxpayers for $120 million through Medicare and
25 Medicaid.
5747
1 And in January, two people from
2 Brooklyn pled guilty for bribing patients and
3 billing Medicaid for services that they never
4 provided in the Happy Family Social Adult Daycare
5 and the Responsible Care Staffing, Inc. They
6 stole $68 million from taxpayers.
7 And I think when you're stealing
8 that much money, you're going to get the
9 attention from the Department of Justice. And
10 that's exactly what happened. And I hope
11 everyone gets justice in this case.
12 Last year the State Comptroller said
13 we taxpayers paid $1.2 billion in managed care
14 premiums to people who didn't even live in
15 New York. The state, federal and local share of
16 Medicaid is now $125 billion dollars, all in, in
17 New York State.
18 And with that, Mr. President, I
19 would ask the sponsor to yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR RIVERA: Yup.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: So with --
5748
1 through you, Mr. President, with $125 billion all
2 in, what is the state share of that?
3 (Pause.)
4 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
5 Mr. President, 43.6 billion.
6 SENATOR WALCZYK: What was that
7 again?
8 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
9 Mr. President, 43.6 billion.
10 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
11 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
12 yield?
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
14 sponsor yield?
15 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR WALCZYK: Why are we
19 24 percent higher than the next highest state
20 per capita in Medicaid spending and 77 percent
21 higher than the rest of the nation?
22 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
23 Mr. President. First of all, we are an
24 incredibly populous state. That's number one.
25 Number two, we offer a better
5749
1 Medicaid program than a lot of other states. And
2 we've made the choice to offer some services that
3 a lot of other states do not. And all of that
4 adds up to a program that is expensive.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
6 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
7 yield?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: Yeah, that's a --
14 that's a per-capita spending percentage that I
15 gave. So you would think in a more populous
16 state, with more condensed areas and services
17 closer together, that we would actually be under
18 the average.
19 I think the next state -- which
20 we're still 24 percent higher than -- is
21 Kentucky, which has a spread-out healthcare
22 system.
23 So the question, is it all of the
24 additional programs and services that New York
25 State has added on that are Medicaid-eligible?
5750
1 Is that what accounts for us being 77 percent
2 higher than the national average?
3 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
4 Mr. President. It is indeed because we do offer
5 more services. But also there's some -- we are
6 also a very large state. So obviously there's
7 difficulties involved in that and some of the
8 costs involved in that.
9 And there's also -- we are in
10 New York, so things are more expensive in
11 New York State, and in the Northeast overall.
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
13 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
14 yield?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR WALCZYK: Do you view being
21 77 percent higher than the national average in
22 per-capita spending on Medicaid as a problem?
23 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
24 Mr. President, I do not.
25 Because, again, I believe that the
5751
1 program is needed because we have many
2 working-class folks across the State of New York,
3 not just in my district but certainly across the
4 state, in rural areas and the North Country and
5 in every conceivable zip code in our state who,
6 without this, would rely strictly on emergency
7 rooms for care.
8 And it is indeed important for us to
9 make sure that we spend the money responsibly.
10 And I know that you're probably inching along to
11 make a claim much like a couple of our colleagues
12 did -- through you, Mr. President -- that, again,
13 this is a program that is managed irresponsibly
14 or has enormous gaps of fraud, et cetera,
15 et cetera.
16 But I do -- I do not view it as a
17 problem. I view it as a challenge. Because
18 while I certainly would want less people to be in
19 need of it, the reality is that we have that many
20 people in need of it.
21 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
22 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
23 yield?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
25 sponsor yield?
5752
1 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 Senator yields.
4 SENATOR WALCZYK: And indeed I do
5 wish it was managed a little bit more
6 responsibly, and we will get to that.
7 What does this proposal do to ensure
8 that the Department of Health is only giving this
9 benefit to eligible New Yorkers?
10 SENATOR RIVERA: I would say,
11 Mr. President, that as far as this budget is
12 concerned, it doesn't -- as we've talked about
13 before, it doesn't necessarily do something
14 different.
15 We are required to be -- as a state,
16 to be able to identify -- to be able to determine
17 eligibility of folks and to be able to -- and to
18 only provide services to folks who are eligible
19 for them, as you have pointed out.
20 And we can point out in any
21 governmental program or any program whatsoever
22 there might be some bad actors. There certainly
23 might be some folks who either take advantage or
24 receive things they are not eligible for.
25 But as far as the question related
5753
1 to what is in this budget that is different, it
2 is very similar to the question that I answered
3 earlier. There is nothing in this budget that is
4 fundamentally different from what we already have
5 in the state, both the Office of Medicaid
6 Inspector General as well as the office in the
7 Attorney General's office -- who I will now ask
8 my staff to write down right here so I can say
9 the name in the future, because the acronym
10 always messes with me. But whatever office that
11 is in the Attorney General's office.
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
13 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
14 yield?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR WALCZYK: Yeah, you
21 mentioned the Office of Medicaid Inspector
22 General. They're in charge of investigating,
23 obviously, as the title suggests.
24 How much money are we increasing
25 their funding by in this budget for them to do
5754
1 more work investigating fraud within our Medicaid
2 system?
3 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
4 Mr. President, we are trying to track it down
5 right now to be able to give you the most correct
6 information.
7 (Pause.)
8 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
9 Mr. President. There was an increase.
10 I'm sure that you have further
11 questions. When I have the exact number that the
12 increase was, I will give it to you. But there
13 was an increase from year to year, we're trying
14 to figure out exactly how much it was. But you
15 can -- I will yield for the next question if
16 there's a follow-up.
17 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
18 Mr. President, if the sponsor would yield for
19 another question.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: Yeah, related to
5755
1 that as well, if your staff could find out, in
2 addition to any increased funding that we have
3 for that office, if there's any increases in
4 funding for any independent audit or
5 investigation, or whether that fund will be able
6 to be utilized by outside parties in order to
7 investigate Medicaid fraud, that would be great.
8 But I can -- I can move along while
9 they're finding that answer, if that works for
10 you.
11 Through you, Mr. President, I'll
12 ask: Should we open our books to the federal
13 government -- that's obviously the Department of
14 Justice -- if they're noticing to the tunes of
15 millions or hundreds of millions of dollars in
16 just the instances of a couple of individuals
17 bilking the Medicaid system in New York, should
18 we open our books to the feds to let them take a
19 look as they continue to try and root fraud out
20 across the nation?
21 SENATOR RIVERA: First of all,
22 through you, Mr. President, they are obviously --
23 even before this particular president, there's
24 obviously a lot of processes that we have to
25 follow with the federal government. We are using
5756
1 federal money, so obviously there's a lot of
2 built-in ways in which we have to consistently be
3 able to prove to the federal government that
4 we're utilizing money for the things that only
5 they have provided -- only for the things that
6 they have provided us authority to go over.
7 But I will refer to my comments a
8 little earlier. We're talking about extended
9 powers through agencies that I do not believe are
10 acting in good faith. No, I don't necessarily
11 believe we should be, quote, unquote, opening the
12 books.
13 I certainly do believe that we
14 should -- as we have always, to the best of my
15 knowledge -- abide by the federal laws that
16 already exist and that we already have to abide
17 by, to make certain that -- to demonstrate to the
18 federal government that we're only using dollars
19 that are -- that we're only using federal dollars
20 for things that they have approved, and to people
21 who are eligible for those services. That, we
22 shall absolutely continue to do.
23 But in reference to what I said
24 earlier, the expanded efforts, so to speak, of
25 the federal government I do not believe are in
5757
1 good faith, and instead I believe that it's
2 clearly demonstrated that they are meant to
3 criminalize, if you will, or to punish the
4 enemies of the person that currently resides in
5 the White House.
6 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
7 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
8 yield?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR WALCZYK: Do you think the
15 two men in Queens that were bilking the system
16 for $120 billion for fraudulent claims are
17 somehow enemies of the administration and the
18 White House?
19 SENATOR RIVERA: Mr. President,
20 through you. Again, I think there was a -- I
21 believe that my colleague just used a number of
22 120 billion. I'm not sure if that was accurate,
23 first.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: Million dollars,
25 I'm sorry.
5758
1 SENATOR RIVERA: But as I referred
2 to earlier, I am not familiar with this
3 particular story.
4 And I will repeat again, no,
5 these -- I will repeat again, these folks were --
6 the actions that they took I am not defending nor
7 will I ever defend. I do not want any money to
8 be spent on things that are not supposed to be
9 spent for, particularly when we're talking about
10 taxpayer dollars.
11 These folks were -- if there's a
12 story in the news, it means that they were
13 identified, that their crimes were found, and
14 that indeed -- (to staff) oh, my goodness, this
15 handwriting -- this handwriting is almost as bad
16 as mine. Almost. Mine is worse.
17 Anyway, so I don't -- I don't
18 believe that these particular people that we're
19 talking about, the particular people that we're
20 talking about in that story fit what I'm talking
21 about.
22 What I am referring to is the way
23 that the federal government has used agencies at
24 the national level to punish the states that they
25 have seen as enemies of the current
5759
1 administration.
2 Now, this is not -- I believe that
3 this is clear that this is what they have been
4 doing in this. And so -- but I don't know in
5 particular the story of these two people, whether
6 they stole 1 million, 2 million, or whatever it
7 was. I am unfamiliar with that particular story.
8 SENATOR WALCZYK: Mr. President, on
9 the bill.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:
11 Senator Walczyk on the bill.
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: Let me
13 familiarize you with the story. This is from the
14 Department of Justice.
15 (Reading.) Two Queens men charged
16 with 120 million -- I may have said billion
17 earlier -- in adult daycare and pharmacy fraud on
18 Medicare and Medicaid. Monday, February 9, 2026.
19 "On Friday, a complaint was unsealed
20 in Brooklyn charging two Queens men with
21 defrauding Medicare and Medicaid by paying
22 illegal kickbacks and bribes and submitting
23 claims for services that were never provided.
24 "'The defendants allegedly turned a
25 pharmacy and social adult day care centers meant
5760
1 to help senior citizens into a $120 million
2 dollar Medicare and Medicaid fraud scheme,' said
3 Assistant Attorney General A. Tysen Duva of the
4 Justice Department's Criminal Division. 'Today's
5 complaint targets those who prey upon the
6 vulnerable so they can steal from American
7 taxpayers and defraud government programs meant
8 to help the public.'
9 "'The defendants charged today
10 allegedly stole $120 million from federal health
11 care programs by luring the elderly to their
12 businesses with illegal cash payments,' stated
13 U.S. Attorney Joseph Nocella Jr. for the
14 Eastern District of New York. 'These charges are
15 part of this office's commitment to protecting
16 federal programs and prosecuting those who steal
17 from them.'
18 "'Pharmacies and social adult day
19 care centers exist to serve and support
20 seniors -- not to siphon off taxpayer resources
21 and operate as engines for fraud,' said
22 Acting Deputy Inspector General for
23 Investigations Scott J. Lampert of the
24 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services,
25 Office of Inspector General. 'Schemes like this,
5761
1 which allegedly drained more than $120 million
2 from Medicare and Medicaid, erode trust in our
3 health care system. HHS-OIG will continue to
4 aggressively pursue those who exploit federal
5 healthcare programs to ensure they are held fully
6 accountable.'
7 "'Today's complaint demonstrates the
8 FBI's commitment to pursue those who defraud
9 taxpayer-funded healthcare programs,' said
10 Acting Assistant Director Gregory Heeb of the
11 FBI's Criminal Division. 'Scheming against
12 programs like Medicare impacts those who need it
13 most. Together with our partners, the FBI will
14 continue to hold accountable criminals who
15 threaten access to critical care.'"
16 The release goes on. And with that,
17 Mr. President, I would ask the sponsor to yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
19 sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR WALCZYK: Are the two
24 men -- through you, Mr. President, are the two
25 men from Queens who are charged with defrauding
5762
1 the taxpayers and taking from those who need
2 these services political enemies of someone? Or
3 are they enemies of the taxpayers and the people
4 who need these systems and the safety net?
5 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
6 Mr. President, obviously these people should be
7 held accountable for what they did. There was
8 nothing that I said that had anything to do with
9 those two individuals.
10 The argument that I'm making here is
11 that there is a broader conversation that is
12 occurring. It is not about this one act or these
13 two people. Certainly, again, if somebody's
14 caught with their hand in the cookie jar, chop
15 off the hand. Well, not literally, but you know
16 what I mean. People should be held accountable
17 for what they do.
18 So I'm not defending these folks.
19 I'm not defending what they did, and I certainly
20 believe that they should be held to account and
21 that they should be prosecuted to the fullest
22 extent of the law.
23 The argument, however, it is about
24 inching towards -- the type of things that we're
25 talking about is a broad-based like dropping in
5763
1 of a federal agency that it would not be in good
2 faith. It is about taking public programs that
3 are serving mostly poor working people of color
4 across the state and across the country, and
5 making it seem like those things are wastes of
6 money. This has been the case forever. It's the
7 reason why we've had -- like if we're talking
8 about welfare, we're talking about food stamps,
9 there is always a demonization that exists.
10 So those two people, they can go
11 away. I have no problem with them being
12 arrested, being prosecuted. They should talk
13 about all the other folks that were involved in
14 their fraudulent scheme. And I do not defend
15 fraudulent schemes.
16 But we're talking about the
17 broader -- the broader issue that I'm making,
18 because the argument that one of the
19 colleagues -- that one of my colleagues -- that
20 one of our colleagues, Mr. President, made
21 earlier was that we should in advance audit
22 because we should open the books to the feds,
23 et cetera, et cetera.
24 I do not believe that those efforts
25 would be in good faith. If you have an attorney,
5764
1 the district attorney of the Southern District or
2 the Eastern District finding folks like this,
3 great. Let's find them, let's prosecute them,
4 let's get them all out of the system. I don't
5 want a single one of them there.
6 But it is about the broader issue,
7 and the broader issue is that -- I repeat once
8 again, I do not believe that the federal
9 government is acting in good faith when it is
10 going after a state's programs in its entirety.
11 We're talking about bad actors in them, fry them.
12 But not the program as a whole.
13 And there's a demonization that
14 exists when this type of thing happens that makes
15 these programs -- that makes the federal
16 government go, like, we shouldn't fund these
17 programs at all. That's what they do.
18 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
19 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
20 yield?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 sponsor yields.
5765
1 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you.
2 Did you find an answer on how much
3 we're increasing funding or -- with a purpose to
4 assist the Office of Medicaid Inspector General
5 in rooting out some of the fraud as we've
6 displayed here?
7 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
8 Mr. President, thank you for pinging me on that.
9 The answer is yes.
10 It is a total of 71 million. That
11 was an increase on year to year of $12 million.
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
13 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
14 yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR WALCZYK: Are you aware
21 that the National Medicaid Fraud Control Units,
22 quote, record showed an average of eight
23 investigations per $1 billion spent in New York?
24 That makes us the third lowest in the nation in
25 the rate of investigating.
5766
1 Are you aware of that?
2 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
3 Mr. President. No, I was not.
4 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
5 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
6 yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
8 sponsor yield?
9 SENATOR RIVERA: Yup.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: So if we are the
13 third-lowest in investigations, in the rate of
14 investigations for Medicaid fraud, but we're
15 77 percent higher than the national average in
16 Medicaid spending per capita, shouldn't we be
17 investigating a lot more? I don't think a
18 $120 million case is really going to do it here.
19 Don't you think there's a lot more fraud in this
20 system?
21 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
22 Mr. President, I have no way of knowing that.
23 What I would suggest to our
24 colleague is that next year when we're talking to
25 the OMIG Inspector General, or even before that,
5767
1 that there should be questions specifically asked
2 of them as well as the MFCU -- see, I got it this
3 time -- the folks who work those offices. I am
4 not a prosecutor. I am not an investigator. I
5 cannot tell you whether I think that there's more
6 or less.
7 What I can tell you is that I will
8 admit, again, that any government program
9 obviously has bad actors. But I will say once
10 again, the fact that we know about some of these
11 things means that we are doing at least a good
12 job of identifying some of it. Is there more?
13 There likely is. But I am not an investigator, I
14 am not a prosecutor, so I couldn't be -- I
15 wouldn't be able to tell you.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you.
17 Mr. President, on the bill.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
19 Walczyk on the bill.
20 SENATOR WALCZYK: Yes, we should be
21 doing more, and there should be more in this
22 bill.
23 And when you're increasing spending
24 and you -- look, we've actually had a decrease in
25 enrollment in Medicaid since COVID. So you would
5768
1 expect that spending has gone down and instead
2 has not. And that's part of the reason that
3 we're 77 percent higher than the national
4 average, and yet at the bottom when it comes to
5 investigating to try and root out fraud.
6 And the complacency in the
7 stewardship of taxpayer money is bad enough.
8 Right? Taxpayers should be absolutely outraged
9 that someone is bilking our system and we've
10 built it in a way that they can easily get away
11 with that, until the Department of Justice shows
12 up, because they've taken $120 million, and
13 obviously that was too greedy.
14 But clearly we've built a system
15 that taxpayers should be very concerned about.
16 And what should also be concerning is that when
17 $120 million is taken for fraud, it's taken away
18 from communities and New Yorkers that actually
19 need the safety net. There are New Yorkers that
20 depend on Medicaid. There's a reason that we
21 built this system in the first place, because
22 some individuals need a safety net.
23 And when you allow the fraud to
24 creep into our system, you're hurting them the
25 most at the same time you're eroding the faith
5769
1 that taxpayers have that we're going to spend
2 their money wisely, and offending them by
3 allowing the fraud to continue.
4 So I think we have a lot more work
5 to do here.
6 Thank you, Mr. President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
8 you, Senator Walczyk.
9 Senator Stec, why do you rise?
10 SENATOR STEC: If the chairman
11 would yield for a few questions, please.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
13 Rivera, do you yield?
14 SENATOR RIVERA: Yup.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR STEC: Thank you,
18 Mr. President. Thank you, Chairman.
19 In a similar vein of questions, but
20 there's just a few things that I want to make
21 sure I'm understanding.
22 There's a Comptroller DiNapoli
23 report that found about 1.2 billion in Medicaid
24 premiums were being paid to people that did not
25 live in New York State from 2017 to 2024, and
5770
1 additionally $1.5 billion in premiums for members
2 whose residency wasn't reviewed by DOH. So we're
3 talking, over a few-year period, about
4 $3 billion.
5 Is there anything in this budget
6 that would ensure that out-of-state residents are
7 not receiving New York's Medicaid dollars?
8 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
9 Mr. President. As I've stated more than a few
10 times already, nothing new that is not about
11 supporting the institutions that already exist to
12 identify this sort of fraud.
13 SENATOR STEC: If the sponsor will
14 continue to yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
19 Senator yields.
20 SENATOR STEC: Thank you. Through
21 you, Mr. President.
22 Similarly, in 2024, the
23 Empire Center wrote a report -- we're all
24 familiar with the Empire Center -- highlighting
25 that there are 5.5 million New Yorkers that have
5771
1 incomes that would make them eligible to receive
2 either Medicaid or the Essential Plan. So the
3 data says income-eligible New Yorkers,
4 5.5 million people. Yet there's 8.5 million
5 people enrolled in those two programs.
6 So 3 million people more than would
7 be eligible are enrolled, according to the
8 Empire Center. And when you do the math, that's
9 $20 billion a year. I'm not asking should we
10 cover more than the 5.5 million. But under
11 current eligibility requirements, we are
12 providing these services to 3 million people that
13 aren't eligible for them.
14 Is there anything in this budget
15 that would identify and qualify the people to
16 make sure that only those that are eligible are
17 in these programs?
18 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
19 Mr. President. Through you, Mr. President. God
20 bless Bill Hammond. Love the brother. God bless
21 Bill Hammond.
22 SENATOR STEC: Yeah, gotcha.
23 SENATOR RIVERA: I love the brother
24 from the Empire Center. I respect him. I have
25 deep disagreements with the gentleman, but I do
5772
1 think that there is -- I don't necessarily think
2 that his -- that his numbers are accurate,
3 necessarily. And so I don't know for a fact that
4 there are 3 million people who were not eligible
5 who are receiving services, who aren't eligible
6 for them.
7 The state has an obligation to make
8 sure that the services that are being provided
9 are being provided to folks who are eligible for
10 them. Are there folks who are receiving them who
11 are not eligible? Probably. And we should find
12 them and we should make sure that if they're not
13 eligible for something that they don't receive
14 it. And if somebody has made some sort of
15 rigmarole arrangement to make sure that services
16 go to somebody that should not receive them, that
17 person should be held accountable.
18 But I don't necessarily think that
19 just because the Empire Center report put out
20 something that says that 3 million people who are
21 ineligible are still receiving services, I don't
22 necessarily think that that's accurate.
23 SENATOR STEC: Will the sponsor
24 continue to yield?
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
5773
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
6 So on a follow-up to that, you're
7 not subscribing to his 3 million number. It
8 sounds like you said you think that number is
9 greater than zero. I don't want to put a number
10 in your mouth whether you think it's a million
11 people or 500,000 people.
12 But the question still remains, is
13 there anything in this budget that will compel
14 the State of New York to either verify the
15 accuracy of that Empire number, verify the
16 accuracy of the Comptroller's reports -- is there
17 anything in this budget bill that's checking
18 anything out when it comes to making sure that
19 only those that are eligible and qualified are
20 receiving these services, or is the state
21 taxpayer just doling out money to anyone and
22 we're losing maybe $20 billion a year?
23 SENATOR RIVERA: The state taxpayer
24 is not doling out money to just anybody. It's --
25 there are -- are there folks who are -- there are
5774
1 always bad actors in every shape -- there's no --
2 humanity is not perfect. There's always going to
3 be knuckleheads everywhere. So there's always
4 going to be somebody who's going to try to take
5 advantage of it.
6 So obviously there are folks who are
7 not eligible for something and know they're not
8 eligible and are still receiving the services.
9 Do I know how many there are? No.
10 But consider this. If we're talking -- if we
11 take his number at face value, that means like
12 half the program -- it's like -- we have like
13 just over 6 million people, I think. So it would
14 be like half the program.
15 So really, half the program? Are we
16 saying that we're so inept -- and listen, I have
17 many issues with the Department of Health and
18 with the Medicaid -- with our Office of Medicaid.
19 But half the program? I mean, if you -- if you
20 believe that, that's great. I don't think that
21 there's enough evidence to be able to say that.
22 And certainly -- and I don't believe
23 that that -- if that was the case, then obviously
24 the next logical step would be like, well, you
25 have to blow the whole thing up.
5775
1 And this is what is a problem for
2 me. Because ultimately, as we said before, this
3 is a program that is necessary for people around
4 the state. And not just in my district, but
5 around the state -- in rural districts,
6 upstate New York, you know, Western New York,
7 Southern Tier, everywhere. There's people who
8 need it all over the place. So I do not want to
9 blow it up.
10 Do I want to make it better? Yes.
11 But just to answer just your question, is there
12 anything in this budget, no. Not a thing extra.
13 SENATOR STEC: Thank you,
14 Mr. President. If the sponsor would continue to
15 yield.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
17 sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR RIVERA: Sure.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
20 sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR STEC: Thank you for
22 getting around to that yes-or-no answer
23 eventually.
24 (Laughter.)
25 SENATOR STEC: You did mention in
5776
1 your soliloquy that -- you used the word "inept,"
2 is the State of New York that inept where we've
3 got this kind of tens of billions of dollars and
4 millions of people.
5 It is May 27th, and here we are
6 working on a budget, Chairman. So maybe, maybe
7 we need to expand our imagination a little bit.
8 But to ask my question. So in 2021,
9 the year that I joined this body, there were
10 7.2 million New Yorkers enrolled in Medicaid and
11 the state share was $22.8 billion. This year,
12 there's 6.5 million people enrolled in Medicaid.
13 And you just provided Senator Walczyk the number,
14 the state share is 43.6 billion. So in 2021 we
15 went from 22.8 billion to just about double,
16 43.6 billion state share, yet we shaved
17 700,000 people, from 7.2 million to 6.5 million
18 participating.
19 Then I did the math. The cost, the
20 state cost per person in 2021 was $3,166, and in
21 2026 it's $6,707. The per-person spending on our
22 Medicaid program in the six years that I've been
23 in this chamber has more than doubled.
24 How is that possible?
25 (Pause.)
5777
1 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
2 Mr. President, a couple of things.
3 First of all, I should correct
4 myself a bit. The 43 share, the 43 state share
5 actually is both local and the state. The state
6 share was actually more like 32 billion this
7 year. So that's number one.
8 Number two, there have been some
9 demographic shifts over the last couple of years
10 that are only going to get worse. It relates to
11 people getting older, people requiring
12 higher-need services. That's an expensive
13 proposition.
14 On top of how we said earlier that
15 inflation is what inflation is, it's going to
16 make things more expensive and certainly more
17 expensive in the Northeast.
18 All of those things together, on top
19 of the fact, as I mentioned earlier, that it is a
20 program that is, yes, more generous than in other
21 instances and a better Medicaid program than a
22 lot of other states. It does mean that it is --
23 that it is an expensive proposition.
24 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
25 Mr. President, on the bill.
5778
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
2 Stec on the bill.
3 SENATOR STEC: I will spare my
4 friend and colleague further pressing the issue.
5 I think I got the information I needed from the
6 chairman, and I appreciate that.
7 But there are lots of reports -- the
8 Comptroller, a statewide elected official, his
9 office. The Empire Center, we talked about that.
10 And some very simple math that shows billions,
11 maybe up to $20 billion a year is being wasted or
12 inappropriately spent on Medicaid.
13 Medicaid, at 30-something billion
14 dollars, that's about a sixth of the state's
15 budget. So it's a big chunk of our spending.
16 In fact, two of the biggest chunks
17 of state affordability problems are Medicaid and
18 the money that we are inefficiently or perhaps
19 inappropriately spending on Medicaid that we're
20 talking about tonight, and energy costs, which
21 we've been talking about.
22 And when any of us, myself in
23 particular, have asked why New York is an
24 outlier -- Medicaid per person, we are 77 percent
25 above the national average. Energy electric
5779
1 rates, we are 70 percent above the national
2 average -- the answer we always seem to get back
3 is the world economy, the war, inflation, the
4 current occupant of the White House. It's never
5 state policies.
6 And this is a nonsensical answer.
7 If New York State's energy rates are 77 percent
8 above the national average and our per Medicaid
9 spending is 70 percent above the national
10 average, it's time for New York State to look in
11 the mirror. Because 49 other states and the
12 weighted national average have managed to be
13 doing it for about half of what our energy costs
14 and half what we spend per person on Medicaid.
15 We've almost doubled the per-person Medicaid rate
16 in the six years that I've been here.
17 Now, is it because I don't want
18 people to be covered? No. But I want to make
19 sure that the people that deserve to be covered
20 are being covered. If there's tens of billions
21 of dollars floating around because we're paying
22 them out to people that aren't income-eligible,
23 then you either need to change those eligibility
24 requirements or we need to start tightening down
25 the ship.
5780
1 But we are wasting money. And the
2 people that are supposed to benefit from our
3 energies here are not. The pie is only so big.
4 Thank God Albany can't print money.
5 But there's a Siena poll that is
6 saying that one in three New Yorkers say they're
7 going to leave the state -- regardless of whether
8 or not the Knicks are the national champions,
9 Mr. President -- because they can't afford to
10 live here. One in three are saying they're going
11 to leave in the next five years.
12 And what can we do about it? We can
13 do something more than a $150 rebate check on our
14 energy bills, like we just passed an hour ago,
15 and we could certainly do more than ignore, turn
16 a blind eye to "I don't think it's 3 million
17 people, it might be less than 3 million people."
18 If it's 250,000 people, that's way too many.
19 We need to do better in the Medicaid
20 department. We are wasting money. And every
21 measure, when you compare us to the national
22 average, is telling us that. And the go-to
23 answer can't be, I don't like the guy in the
24 White House, let's blame him. It's easy and lazy
25 politics, but it's dishonest. And the bottom
5781
1 line is, it doesn't fix the math and it doesn't
2 fix what's happening.
3 We are spending New Yorkers into a
4 move in a U-Haul. I'll be voting against this
5 budget bill.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
7 Rhoads, why do you rise?
8 Senator Rhoads on the bill.
9 SENATOR RHOADS: Senator Stec has
10 summed up the answer perfectly.
11 And I will go so far as to answer
12 the chairman's question from previously. Yes, if
13 you look at the numbers, clearly we are inept at
14 managing this problem. The numbers speak for
15 themselves.
16 The highest per-capita spending on
17 Medicaid. We spend more by far than every other
18 state -- $6,000 per capita. You may disagree
19 with the Empire Center's number, but the notion
20 that you could potentially have 3 million more
21 enrollees in Medicaid than are financially
22 eligible for it, and you're questioning the
23 methodology from the Empire Center -- shouldn't
24 we actually be taking a look at that? What are
25 we doing to investigate fraud?
5782
1 And this is about making sure that
2 the people who need the services have access to
3 those services. Look at what it's doing to our
4 budget: $120 billion of a $270 billion budget is
5 on Medicaid. Forty-four percent of the state's
6 entire population is on Medicaid. We had a
7 conversation about taxes earlier, and property
8 taxes were brought up. Do you realize that the
9 entire budget for -- the entire amount of
10 property tax that is charged by our counties goes
11 to cover Medicaid?
12 The entire amount of property tax
13 attributable to our counties goes to cover their
14 share of Medicaid expenses.
15 We have a tremendous problem here.
16 And when you look at the budget, we are doing
17 absolutely nothing to save the problem -- to
18 solve the problem and to investigate.
19 And so the question becomes, while
20 my colleagues on the other side of the aisle keep
21 pointing to Washington and saying Washington's
22 acting in bad faith, when Washington is footing a
23 substantial portion of this bill, I'm sure they
24 would make the argument that we're not acting in
25 good faith. What are we doing to solve the
5783
1 problem?
2 Medicaid expenses, 79 percent more
3 than the national average. Every other state
4 seems to have this under control. New York, for
5 some reason, doesn't. 57.8 percent higher, our
6 overall healthcare costs, public and private,
7 higher than the national average.
8 That's a problem that we need to be
9 looking at, and this budget does nothing, nothing
10 to address that problem. Why haven't we done a
11 forensic audit? Any idea? Because that would
12 seem to be the solution. Yet when this side of
13 the aisle proposes it, we hear crickets on the
14 other side and no one's interested in pursuing
15 it.
16 With that, Mr. President, I would
17 ask if the sponsor would yield to some questions
18 on the three-year HCRA extension.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
20 sponsor yield?
21 SENATOR RIVERA: Knowing full well
22 that the food in the back is getting colder and
23 colder, I will.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 sponsor yields.
5784
1 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you. And
2 through you, Mr. President.
3 Now, the Health Care Reform Act is
4 New York's healthcare financing structure that
5 raises billions of dollars through insurers
6 assessments and healthcare surcharges, covered
7 lives assessments, and other industry taxes and
8 fees, and those revenues are used to support
9 Medicaid hospital funding pools, graduate medical
10 education, public healthcare programs, and other
11 health spending priorities.
12 And in this piece of legislation, if
13 I'm correct in my understanding, we're going to
14 be extending those taxes that are making
15 healthcare more expensive.
16 So my question for you, after that
17 lengthy lead-up -- through you, Mr. President --
18 is can the Majority explain how extending HCRA
19 for another three years does anything other than
20 lock in higher healthcare costs and insurance
21 premiums for working New Yorkers?
22 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
23 Mr. President. HCRA funds many things, whether
24 we're talking about tobacco prevention for youth,
25 whether we're talking about the graduate
5785
1 education in medicine -- a colleague mentioned
2 that when they were talking about supporting --
3 or rural hospitals, Mr. President. All of those
4 are funded through HCRA.
5 So that is what this is going to do,
6 allow us to continue to do those things.
7 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
8 continue to yield?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR RHOADS: Couldn't those
15 priorities be funded through other mechanisms if
16 we rooted out the fraud in the system?
17 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
18 Mr. President. Certainly if we -- I mean -- this
19 is the thing. I'm not going to deny, because
20 this is all about a back door to the other
21 question that three of your colleagues asked
22 before. Okay, God bless America. I am not
23 saying that the system is perfect.
24 But what I am saying is that the
25 continued -- this is the thing that's kind of
5786
1 weird, because it is one of those things that
2 the -- it might come back to haunt you all. And
3 I'll explain. There's the back door reference to
4 the program being this pool of money that's being
5 stolen all over the place, while at the same time
6 recognizing that it is something that it is
7 needed for people who are in need.
8 But the reason why I keep mentioning
9 the dude in the White House is that orange pile
10 of excrement over there wants to do away with
11 these programs. He's said so, literally has said
12 so: We can't afford Social Security, we can't
13 afford Medicaid, we've got to put money in the
14 military. That's what this particular federal
15 administration wants to do.
16 So I absolutely want to work with
17 all of my colleagues to make sure that we have a
18 system that is responsible, that actually spends
19 its money wisely and spends its money
20 responsibly. I just don't think we can do it
21 hand in hand with this administration in the
22 federal government. I just don't.
23 So it would be great if we had -- if
24 we were able to identify, Mr. President, every
25 single person that is committing fraud in the
5787
1 program. Whether it's one person or a thousand
2 or whatever it is, I would gladly want to
3 identify every single person so that every single
4 dollar, we would have it back in the system so
5 that we could spend it in responsible and
6 positive ways.
7 SENATOR RHOADS: I think that was a
8 yes. I'm not a hundred percent sure.
9 But will the sponsor yield to
10 another question?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR RIVERA: I will yield for
14 another semi-soliloquy, yes, sir, I will.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR RHOADS: First off, the
18 dude in the White House is the president of the
19 United States.
20 Secondly, does the sponsor deny --
21 through you, Mr. President -- that if the HCRA
22 assessments and surcharges -- you would agree
23 that they're ultimately passed on to the
24 consumers, right?
25 (Pause.)
5788
1 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
2 Mr. President, if my colleague could repeat the
3 question, please.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
5 Rhoads?
6 SENATOR RHOADS: Sure.
7 Through you, Mr. President, you
8 would certainly agree that when we have these
9 HCRA surcharges, taxes that we're charging to
10 industry partners as part of the healthcare
11 financing structure, that these are all passed
12 along to the person who's actually purchasing a
13 healthcare policy, whether it's an employer or a
14 personal policy?
15 SENATOR RIVERA: I would agree that
16 certain -- that actors in a capitalist system
17 will certainly try to maximize their earnings and
18 their profit. And that if that means castigating
19 the customer, as opposed to trying to serve them,
20 certainly that probably has occurred and will
21 continue to occur, yes.
22 SENATOR RHOADS: And will the
23 sponsor yield to another question.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
25 sponsor yield?
5789
1 SENATOR RIVERA: Sure.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR RHOADS: And in fact the
5 Marketplace Premium Survey for 2025 indicates
6 that the Health Care Reform Act taxes that this
7 state is charging add approximately $1,000 per
8 year to healthcare premium costs. That's
9 $6.6 billion a year.
10 And so if affordability is truly a
11 priority, why is the Legislature extending one of
12 the largest hidden healthcare tax structures in
13 the state without any requirement that premiums
14 actually decrease?
15 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
16 Mr. President, if I may ask my colleague to yield
17 to get a clarification on that question.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
19 Rhoads, could you clarify the question?
20 SENATOR RHOADS: Sure.
21 SENATOR RIVERA: No, no, I'll ask
22 if he could yield for me to ask a question that
23 is clarifying to that question.
24 SENATOR RHOADS: Sure.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
5790
1 Rhoads yields to -- you're asking the Senator to
2 yield?
3 Senator Rhoads, do you yield?
4 SENATOR RHOADS: I've got to fill
5 out my scorecard here. Yeah, yeah.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: I just
7 want to make sure you have a scorecard there.
8 SENATOR RIVERA: Mr. President,
9 through you, to make sure that I understand what
10 my colleague is asking.
11 So he says there's -- again,
12 bringing in things that we didn't necessarily
13 know we were going to have to -- we're getting
14 tested on things that we weren't necessarily told
15 to study. I am not familiar with this particular
16 report that my colleague was speaking about.
17 But this thousand dollars that he
18 was referring to, is that a thousand dollars
19 that's being charged to customers through
20 which -- are we talking about insurance companies
21 charging a thousand dollars extra? Is that --
22 through you, Mr. President, is that what that
23 thousand dollars refers to?
24 SENATOR RHOADS: Yes. The
25 finding -- through you, Mr. President, the
5791
1 findings of the study are that the 6.6 billion
2 per year that is raised through HCRA taxes
3 equates to a $1,000 per year increase in premiums
4 for each policy.
5 SENATOR RIVERA: Thank you.
6 Through you, Mr. President. I have
7 said it many times before. Insurance companies
8 are my favorite. They're my favorite because
9 this is what they do.
10 I certainly agree that the way that
11 the current system is organized, this is what is
12 going to -- bound to happen. And I've said the
13 story before of the frog and the scorpion,
14 Mr. President. A frog is on the side of the road
15 with a scorpion, and the scorpion says, "Hey, I
16 need to get to the other side of the road" -- he
17 doesn't know how to swim.
18 The frog says, "I'm not going to do
19 that, because if I do, you're going to sting me."
20 And the scorpion says, "I don't know
21 how to swim. If I sting you, we're both going to
22 die."
23 And the frog thinks about it for a
24 second and says, "You know what, yeah, get on my
25 back." So he goes, swims, and in the middle of
5792
1 the lake, the scorpion bites him. And as he's
2 going down, he's going like, "Why did you do
3 that?" And the scorpion just says, "Because it's
4 my nature."
5 The insurance companies are the
6 scorpion, Mr. President. They're obviously going
7 to charge the customer more.
8 I would argue that we need to do
9 away with the entire system and not have to
10 charge them anything because they shouldn't be
11 necessary, which is where the New York Health Act
12 comes in. If we redesign the way that the entire
13 system is structured and we take the profit
14 motive out of it, then certainly that wouldn't
15 happen.
16 Insurance companies wouldn't charge
17 people a thousand dollars more or $2,000 more or
18 take your doctor out of the -- out of their
19 network for no reason whatsoever, or decide that
20 you should not be covered for X or Y, even though
21 your doctor thinks you should be -- you should be
22 covered for it or that you should need it to be
23 healthy, et cetera.
24 So yes, Mr. President, it is true
25 that these wonderful, wonderful companies are
5793
1 going to indeed do that to customers. I would
2 hope that we could get my colleague to join me in
3 trying to do away with the entire system so
4 that's no longer necessary.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
6 Rhoads.
7 SENATOR RHOADS: Briefly on the
8 bill.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
10 Rhoads on the bill.
11 SENATOR RHOADS: So I guess the
12 solution that's being offered here is to actually
13 put everyone on the same fraud-riddled Medicaid
14 system that we actually have in the State of
15 New York now that encompasses 40 percent of the
16 state's entire budget, just for 44 percent of the
17 people in the State of New York. If now all of a
18 sudden everyone was on that, imagine, imagine the
19 size of the state budget.
20 But my question for the Senator, if
21 he will yield --
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
23 sponsor yield?
24 SENATOR RIVERA: If he's ready for
25 another soliloquy, yes, I am.
5794
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
2 sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR RHOADS: It's that the HCRA
4 was originally enacted as a temporary increase in
5 the 1990s that's been repeatedly renewed and, as
6 you've conceded, has now effectively become a
7 permanent financial mechanism within New York's
8 healthcare system.
9 If it was initially presented as a
10 temporary financing mechanism decades ago, at
11 what point is the Majority going to admit that
12 these temporary healthcare surcharges, taxes,
13 have effectively become permanent? What's the
14 point of extending this for simply another three
15 years, only three years from now to extend it
16 again?
17 (Pause.)
18 SENATOR RIVERA: Mr. President,
19 sunsets are -- or what we refer to as sunsets; in
20 other words, that we extend something for I think
21 a limited period of time -- are about really
22 potentially looking at a policy and assessing
23 whether it's a correct one and trying to tweak
24 it, et cetera.
25 It doesn't mean that something is
5795
1 permanent or something is not permanent, it just
2 means that it is for that period of time that has
3 been decided in this particular negotiation.
4 So in this particular budget
5 negotiation it was decided, as it refers to this
6 particular part of the budget, that it should be
7 an extension, and it was.
8 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
9 continue to yield?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
11 sponsor yield?
12 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR RHOADS: I think part of
16 the issue here is that I feel like we must be on
17 the North Pole in summertime. The sun never
18 sets. That's part of the problem. And if HCRA
19 is working so well, why does New York remain one
20 of the most expensive health insurance markets in
21 the country, the fifth-highest in the nation?
22 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
23 Mr. President -- I should probably ask you,
24 Mr. President, since you are the chair of the
25 Insurance Committee in the Senate.
5796
1 All I can tell you is that, again,
2 insurance companies -- which again are my
3 favorite, love them -- will do what they do.
4 They're going to try to figure out how to make
5 the most money possible without necessarily
6 providing you care or providing your family care,
7 so.
8 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
9 Senator.
10 On the bill.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
12 Rhoads on the bill.
13 SENATOR RHOADS: I think part of
14 the issue is that while you complain about -- and
15 no one has love for health insurance companies.
16 But while we complain about health insurance
17 companies, when we look at things like the HCRA,
18 the real issue is that Albany has become
19 dependent on opaque healthcare financing
20 mechanisms, because openly presenting the true
21 cost of the system would be politically
22 unpopular.
23 The reality is that healthcare in
24 New York is 57.8 percent more expensive than the
25 national average. And part of that, I believe,
5797
1 is because a recognition of -- that the Majority
2 fails to recognize the fact that when you're
3 talking about private companies, these private
4 companies act in their own self-interest.
5 So if you put a big tax on a
6 company, whether it's a gasoline tax, whether
7 it's a tax on utilities, or whether it's a big
8 tax like HCRA, which is adding a thousand dollars
9 a year to the cost of a health insurance premium,
10 that cost is going to be passed along to the
11 consumer.
12 And because you decided -- not you
13 personally, but you the general majority decided
14 that we're going to create this funding mechanism
15 rather than finding room in the budget to pay for
16 all of the ancillary programs that were mentioned
17 in the answer to the first question, now we're
18 stuck with this system, which is driving up the
19 cost of healthcare premiums, pulling $6.6 billion
20 out of the pockets of New Yorkers who are paying
21 those healthcare premiums, and making things less
22 affordable.
23 And that seems to be the theme
24 today. Because whether we are talking about
25 utility rates, whether we are talking about the
5798
1 expense of a gallon of gasoline, we -- or we're
2 talking about healthcare premiums, we are putting
3 tax upon tax upon tax upon tax, and then we
4 lament the fact that people are complaining about
5 the fact that they don't have enough money to be
6 able to afford gasoline or healthcare premiums or
7 their utility rates.
8 And the solution seems to be, from
9 the other side of the aisle, to point the finger
10 at Washington. But when we're talking about
11 premiums being almost 60 percent higher than the
12 national average, that finger that we're pointing
13 at Washington has three fingers pointing back at
14 us. Because that means we're not managing our
15 budget correctly.
16 So, Mr. President, I know this isn't
17 an explanation of vote, but I will certainly be
18 voting against this piece of legislation and
19 asking my colleagues to do the same. But more
20 importantly, I'm asking my colleagues to look at
21 reality and recognize the fact that the very
22 things that we are doing in this chamber are
23 making it less affordable for the residents of
24 the State of New York to stay here.
25 And when you see the exodus of
5799
1 people and see the exodus of businesses and see
2 the stats that my colleague Senator Stec
3 mentioned that 33 percent of New Yorkers are
4 talking about leaving the state -- another almost
5 7 million New Yorkers are going to follow the
6 1 million that have left, in the very near
7 future. If that statistic is accurate, that
8 should be a wake-up call to all of us.
9 And so again, to my colleagues on
10 the other side of the aisle, I know we're trying
11 to fill temporary stopgaps, and this three-year
12 HCRA extension is one of them, but it's time for
13 us, one, to be serious about rooting out fraud in
14 the system, but it's also time for us to be
15 serious about understanding how the world works,
16 understanding economics, understanding business,
17 and understanding the fact that the more we put
18 taxes on products, goods and services, the more
19 it drives up cost. And if the issue is
20 affordability, that's at the heart of it.
21 Thank you, Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
23 you, Senator Rhoads.
24 Senator Martins, before you
25 commence, I just want to give a housekeeping note
5800
1 that there are 11 minutes remaining in total
2 debate time.
3 Senator Martins.
4 SENATOR MARTINS: That's a long
5 time. Mr. President, if the sponsor would yield
6 for a few questions.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
8 sponsor yield?
9 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
11 Senator yields.
12 SENATOR RIVERA: How long did you
13 say, Mr. President, 11 minutes?
14 SENATOR MARTINS: Eleven.
15 Thank you, Senator. I appreciate
16 it. Some questions on Medicaid managed care and
17 independent dispute resolution. You weren't
18 expecting that, were you?
19 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
20 Mr. President. I will answer while one of my of
21 colleagues does a transformation. All of a
22 sudden you will see -- through you,
23 Madam President -- I'm not sure who's next. As
24 you will see -- through you, Madam President --
25 all of a sudden I will be replaced by somebody
5801
1 far more stylish and more athletic.
2 So through you, Madam President, I
3 believe that I will cede the floor to my
4 colleague who was elsewhere in the room, but now
5 is over there.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
7 Bailey, do you yield?
8 SENATOR BAILEY: Happy to yield.
9 SENATOR MARTINS: Senator Rivera,
10 thank you for your patience today and for
11 answering everyone's questions. I appreciate it.
12 SENATOR RIVERA: (Inaudible.)
13 SENATOR MARTINS: I understand. I
14 understand. But thank you.
15 Madam President, through you.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
17 Bailey, will you yield? Yes, the Senator yields.
18 SENATOR MARTINS: So just some
19 questions about when healthcare professionals and
20 doctors can expect different sections of this
21 bill to go into effect.
22 Section 1 speaks to going into
23 effect immediately. Sections 2 through 6 are
24 90 days from enactment.
25 And so just for clarity, can you
5802
1 speak to your understanding as to when doctors
2 will no longer be able to avail themselves of
3 independent dispute resolution when it comes to
4 claims for their fees for services through IDR?
5 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
6 Madam President, it depends on the type of
7 insurance, Medicaid -- the breakout is different.
8 And so you have Medicaid, you have
9 the New York State Health Insurance plan, and you
10 have other commercial plans, right? So it
11 depends on the type of plan that the doctor is
12 enrolled in -- excuse me, that the patient is
13 enrolled in and the doctor is providing care in.
14 Through you, Madam President.
15 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
16 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
17 yield.
18 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
20 continue to yield? The Senator yields.
21 SENATOR MARTINS: So let's walk, if
22 you would, through that.
23 As of Section 1, when would a doctor
24 be able to -- until when can a doctor continue to
25 seek IDR to get reimbursement for services
5803
1 provided?
2 (Pause.)
3 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
4 Madam President. If the Senator is referring to
5 the Medicaid section, I would say that it would
6 be effective immediately.
7 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
8 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
9 yield.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
11 continue to yield?
12 SENATOR BAILEY: I yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
14 Senator yields.
15 SENATOR MARTINS: I understand.
16 But what would happen to those
17 claims that are pending when this legislation --
18 or if this legislation becomes law? What would
19 happen to those claims that are pending, either
20 that are already in the pipeline -- there's a
21 significant backlog, as I'm sure the Senator
22 knows, with regard to claims that are pending.
23 But if those are pending, do they
24 continue to be serviced under IDR until the
25 legislation is passed?
5804
1 (Pause.)
2 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
3 Madam President. The first and foremost, most
4 important thing, that the patients would not lose
5 any care.
6 But as far as whether those pending
7 claims would be immediately taken off or not, we
8 would have to have conversations with DFS, the
9 regulatory agency in this realm, so that they can
10 establish further regulations in this realm.
11 As far as a specific concrete
12 answer, it would be difficult to do so because
13 the claims themselves, by nature, are pending.
14 So we'd have to figure out how DFS would deal
15 with those.
16 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
17 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
18 yield.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
20 continue to yield?
21 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
23 Senator yields.
24 SENATOR MARTINS: And I'm sure you
25 can understand the concern that healthcare
5805
1 professionals have, and appreciate the fact -- I
2 think we all appreciate the fact that this isn't
3 going to impact patients. Treatment has already
4 been provided. Hopefully they're well.
5 These are the healthcare
6 professionals who provided the treatment who
7 merely want to be reimbursed. And they provided
8 treatment under a certain understanding that they
9 would have access to this dispute resolution
10 mechanism in the event that they were not paid.
11 Many of these providers are out hundreds of
12 thousands of dollars, if not more, for treatment
13 they've already provided.
14 And so changing the rules of the
15 game midstream, I would suggest, is probably a
16 significant concern. And I would suggest, you
17 know, as we sit here and discuss this, rather
18 than leaving it for DFS, that we understand that
19 if they played by the rules -- you know, if
20 they -- if they create a three point line, they
21 don't go back and reevaluate where somebody shot
22 from to determine whether or not they got those
23 three points and reevaluate who won or lost the
24 game. These are the rules that they fell under
25 when they actually provided the services.
5806
1 And I would hope you would agree
2 that it would make sense that we would continue
3 to provide, through the enactment, because it
4 does take place or does go into effect
5 immediately, correct?
6 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
7 Madam President. To continue the sports
8 metaphor, even if there's a three-point line,
9 coaches have the ability to challenge a play.
10 And when you challenge a play, sometimes you have
11 to take a time out.
12 And challenging a play in this case
13 is making sure that we are reacting to I guess
14 the triple combo that we've heard all day --
15 waste, fraud and abuse. We want to make sure
16 that doctors who, rightfully so, provide
17 healthcare are compensated for the care they
18 provide. There is no question about that. But
19 also like we have companies calling themselves
20 recovery agents, advertising to physicians on how
21 do you more or less bilk the system as it relates
22 to IDR.
23 We want to make sure that
24 doctors who are providing reasonable care get
25 compensated at a reasonable rate for their
5807
1 professional expertise that they get paid for. I
2 agree wholeheartedly with that. So that's the
3 instant-replay portion of this. So that this is
4 why it's not as an exact a science as we'd like
5 it to be. It -- we will have to have further
6 evaluation by the regulatory agency accordingly.
7 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
8 Senator.
9 Madam President, through you, if the
10 sponsor would yield for a few more questions.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: I just
12 remind you there are two minutes left,
13 Senator Martins. Am I not correct? You look --
14 SENATOR MARTINS: Did that clock
15 accelerate, Madam President?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: No, it did
17 not accelerate.
18 SENATOR MARTINS: I thought I --
19 I'm pretty sure I had a few more, but I'll try
20 and wrap it up in two minutes.
21 SENATOR BAILEY: I yield.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Yes, he
23 yields.
24 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
25 To just continue the sports
5808
1 metaphor, I thought the IDR was exactly that, the
2 review, an independent review by someone on the
3 outside, and therefore giving the doctors the
4 opportunity -- it isn't a blank check, but there
5 is a system that's in place that would allow them
6 to recover that.
7 But before the two minutes are up,
8 Sections 2 through 6 go into effect 90 days after
9 enactment. And can you just clarify which types
10 of policies would go into effect and what you
11 expect would happen during those 90 days between
12 when we pass this and when it actually goes into
13 effect, so that there's clarity in the industry?
14 SENATOR BAILEY: So Sections 2
15 through 6 would go into effect, as the Senator
16 said, in 90 days. And what I would expect is
17 there's going to be a natural adjustment period
18 to something that has been there.
19 I do believe, as it relates to this,
20 though, for NYSHIP it does have a sunset so we
21 can evaluate it after five years to determine
22 whether this is efficient or not efficient.
23 There is a sunset in this program that would
24 expire, so to speak, in five years.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you. Thank
5809
1 you, Senator. Thank you, Madam President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
3 Martins, I was wrong, you have another minute.
4 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
5 Madam President. Thank you, Senator.
6 On the bill, Madam President.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
8 Martins on the bill.
9 SENATOR MARTINS: When it comes to
10 IDR -- and I certainly understand and I've read
11 the same reports with regard to agencies that are
12 out there. But at the end of the day we all
13 understand that our doctors, our local
14 physicians, our healthcare providers are
15 providing coverage, many of them are providing
16 coverage counting on a reimbursement rate,
17 oftentimes it's Medicaid.
18 And unfortunately, Madam President,
19 it's Medicaid where everything defaults. And if
20 we create disincentives for our doctors,
21 professionals, experts and certainly those who
22 are specialists, if we make it harder for our
23 specialists to be reimbursed under Medicaid,
24 we're doing ourselves and our constituents a
25 disservice because they will stop taking
5810
1 Medicaid. And by refusing to take Medicaid, we
2 are going to leave our own constituents
3 susceptible to not finding a proper caregiver.
4 And that's our concern.
5 So I appreciate it. Senator Bailey,
6 appreciate your answers.
7 Thank you, Madam President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Thank you,
9 Senator Martins.
10 Are there any other Senators wishing
11 to be heard?
12 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
13 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
14 Read the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Call the
18 roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
21 Fernandez to explain her vote.
22 SENATOR FERNANDEZ: Thank you,
23 Madam President. I'm standing to explain my vote
24 on the HMH.
25 This budget bill makes meaningful
5811
1 strides in several important areas. It advances
2 our response to problem gambling, strengthens
3 care for seniors, and supports families
4 navigating developmental disabilities. These are
5 important investments, and they deserve to be
6 recognized.
7 There is, however, one area where I
8 believe we must continue the work, and that is
9 with substance use disorders. New York has seen
10 progress in reducing overdose because --
11 because we have been willing to treat substance
12 use as a public health issue. We have invested
13 in prevention, treatment, recovery and harm
14 reduction. We have moved the conversation away
15 from punishment towards evidence-based care.
16 That progress did not happen by
17 accident. It happened because New York chose to
18 act. Now is not the time to step back and claim
19 victory, but to continue investing in proven
20 interventions.
21 The Governor has been clear about
22 the need to respond to new substances emerging in
23 the illicit drug supply. On May 21st the
24 Governor stated, "We will continue to focus on
25 removing health disparities and responding to new
5812
1 substances that are emerging in the illicit drug
2 supply." I agree with that goal, and we should
3 build on it.
4 So the question now is, how do we
5 continue that process? How do we respond to
6 emerging substances in the illicit drug market
7 without a comprehensive statewide public health
8 surveillance program dedicated to that work? How
9 do we address the ongoing crisis of alcoholism
10 without dedicated funding for alcoholism
11 treatment?
12 I am grateful that this budget
13 includes a 2.7 percent targeted inflationary
14 increase for service providers. Stabilizing the
15 workforce is a necessary step. Expanding
16 coverage for school-based health centers is a
17 necessary step. Expanding treatment for gambling
18 addiction is a necessary step.
19 But affordable substance use
20 disorder treatment is also a necessary step.
21 Stable funding for the providers doing this work
22 is a necessary step. A statewide public health
23 surveillance program that allows us to monitor
24 the evolving drug supply in realtime is also a
25 necessary step.
5813
1 While this budget moves us forward
2 in many ways, I believe we must continue pushing
3 to make sure substance use disorder services
4 receive the attention, stability and investment
5 this crisis demands. That is not criticism of
6 the progress that we made; it is a recognition
7 that the work is not finished.
8 As chair of the Committee on
9 Alcoholism and Substance Use Disorder, I look
10 forward to continuing this work with the Governor
11 and our Majority Leader and our colleagues here
12 as well as the providers, advocates and
13 communities across the state, because --
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
15 Fernandez, how do you vote?
16 SENATOR FERNANDEZ: (Speeding up
17 even more.) I'm going to vote aye because if
18 we're serious about saving lives, we must keep
19 building on the progress that New York has made.
20 Thank you.
21 (Laughter.)
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
23 Fernandez to be recorded in the affirmative.
24 Senator Tedisco to explain his vote.
25 SENATOR TEDISCO: Two hours went by
5814
1 fast. I didn't get a chance to ask
2 Senator Rivera to yield, so I'm going to explain
3 my vote.
4 And I was going to talk to you about
5 the things we agree upon on this side, because I
6 heard you agree with some of the things we were
7 saying over here, and one of the things we don't
8 agree with you on that maybe I can bring you over
9 to our side a little bit.
10 First of all, it's a big program but
11 it's an important program. It's helps a lot of
12 people with their health. It's 40 percent of the
13 budget. We agree with that. We agree with you,
14 Senator, that there is some fraud. We talked
15 about 1.5 and instances that have been in the
16 media. The Comptroller says out-of-state
17 individuals are getting Medicaid money and care.
18 And I think you agree, there is some fraud.
19 And then you went on to say, but
20 look, it's working. The oversights we have are
21 working. The things we're doing are working
22 because we're catching them, we're finding out
23 about that $1.5 billion, or the billions that are
24 being from people outside of New York State, so
25 it's working.
5815
1 And then you said some things about
2 being sinister, which that's what I disagree with
3 you on. Because we were asking for more
4 oversight, for more innovative things to be done.
5 Because here's the point. If it's $1.5 billion
6 of fraud or if it's $3 billion of fraud or if
7 it's $7 billion, it's 10 -- I think you and I
8 agree, the higher that fraud gets, the more money
9 that's being taken away from those who need it,
10 but the more difficult it is to recoup that money
11 and bring it back.
12 If we put more innovative oversight
13 in place and make that 1.5 let's say half a
14 billion dollars, am I happy with half a billion?
15 We agree upon that: We're not happy with any
16 fraud. And I think you're not happy with any
17 fraud.
18 But more oversights are not
19 sinister, they're letting us catch these
20 individuals without taking away the ability to
21 get service -- I'm talking about innovative
22 programs. Why would you want us to think we were
23 sinister just saying we want to get it down to
24 $1? Probably not going to happen --
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
5816
1 Tedisco, how do you vote?
2 SENATOR TEDISCO: I'd like to close
3 by just saying something very quickly. Saying
4 it's always been done that way can always be a
5 disaster.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
7 Tedisco --
8 SENATOR TEDISCO: This has always
9 been done that way; we can do it better.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: How do you
11 vote, Senator Tedisco?
12 SENATOR TEDISCO: I'm going to vote
13 no on the bill because of that.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Thank you.
15 Senator Tedisco to be recorded in
16 the negative.
17 Senator Griffo to explain his vote.
18 SENATOR GRIFFO: Thank you,
19 Madam President.
20 We're looking at a staggering
21 monetary figure here, more than any other state,
22 a 9.8 percent year over year state share of
23 spending increase. Office of State Comptroller
24 audits, Inspector General investigations, new
25 stories that occur.
5817
1 And if the objective is to really
2 take care of the institutions and the people that
3 you want to ensure that we are serving, then I
4 think we want to also ensure that they're getting
5 the resources and the services necessary.
6 And if you can see that we've
7 actually demonstrated that there are problems in
8 the program relative to waste and fraud, then I
9 don't understand how you would say in any way --
10 and one of my colleagues alluded or insinuated
11 that nothing's amiss.
12 Then why -- the question that I
13 would ask, and I think it begs the question, is
14 what is the reluctance, what is the resistance to
15 that independent outside forensic audit,
16 investigation? I think that's baffling and quite
17 frankly outrageous.
18 I vote no.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
20 Griffo to be recorded in the negative.
21 Senator Fahy to explain her vote.
22 SENATOR FAHY: Thank you,
23 Madam President. I rise today in support of this
24 bill.
25 And we've talked a lot about
5818
1 Medicaid today as well as the need to -- the lot
2 of work that needs to be done. But I am proud
3 that we've held the line on a lot of Medicaid
4 needs, particularly given the devastating cuts
5 that the program experienced last year in the
6 Big Beautiful Bill.
7 But I'm really here tonight to talk
8 about a piece that we haven't talked about as
9 much. As chair of the Disabilities Committee, I
10 am pleased that we did include a targeted
11 inflationary increase of 2.7 percent for the
12 direct support professionals, or DSPs that we
13 hear a lot about.
14 They are some of our lowest-paid
15 workers in the workforce in New York. They often
16 serve those with disabilities, our seniors and
17 more. We had wanted a larger increase, but this
18 is a significant one and I'm pleased that we were
19 able to increase it from the original proposal.
20 Also very pleased that we were able
21 to extend the care demonstration program in the
22 OPWDD.
23 The bottom line is there's still a
24 lot of work to do, but we are making enormous
25 strides.
5819
1 And with that, I rise in the
2 affirmative. Thank you, Madam President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
4 Fahy to be recorded in the affirmative.
5 Senator Martins to explain his vote.
6 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
7 Madam President.
8 You know, we mentioned earlier that
9 the one thing people hate more than paying taxes
10 is knowing that their tax money is going -- is
11 not being used properly.
12 It is hard to reconcile the numbers
13 when it comes to Medicaid in this state.
14 Eighty-nine percent increase in six years, but
15 700,000 less people on Medicaid. And yet our
16 expenses go up. And the alarms aren't going off.
17 Not for the Attorney General's office, not for
18 us, not for the state. They're just not going
19 off.
20 We're talking about a $20 billion
21 increase in eight years as people are coming off
22 the rolls -- which is a good thing. They're
23 coming off the rolls. But the amount of money
24 that is being spent should be a concern for all
25 of us.
5820
1 Now, there isn't a single person in
2 this room that wants to see somebody go without
3 treatment. Nobody in this room wants to see
4 that. But there has to be a level of
5 accountability, and there has to be integrity to
6 what we discuss here when we go home and we
7 explain to our constituents why it is that the
8 price is what it is, given the numbers. It just
9 doesn't add up.
10 And so the last place we should be
11 looking for, or one of the last places we should
12 be looking for is blaming the very physicians who
13 provide the healthcare and claim that they are
14 the reason that our costs are so high. The
15 people who are actually treating our constituents
16 and providing specialized services should not be
17 the ones that we decide to nickel and dime at the
18 end of the day, telling them that they can't even
19 go to independent dispute resolution as a means
20 of being paid for their services.
21 Madam President, I vote no.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
23 Martins to be recorded in the negative.
24 Are there any other Senators wishing
25 to explain their vote?
5821
1 Seeing and hearing none,
2 Senator Rivera to close.
3 SENATOR RIVERA: Thank you,
4 Madam President.
5 I want to sincerely thank my
6 colleagues who participated in this conversation
7 today. It got testy at times, but
8 Senator Tedisco, you are correct, there are a lot
9 of things that we can agree on.
10 And the fact is that because I know
11 the folks in this room and because I've worked
12 with the folks in this room, I can look across to
13 you, Senator Tedisco, I can look at
14 Senator Helming, I can look at Senator Griffo,
15 et cetera, and I know that you mean what you say
16 when you're saying that, just like I do, no fraud
17 is acceptable, that there probably is more that
18 we haven't been able to find, and that we should
19 do every effort, that we should make every effort
20 to identify how this program can be run
21 effectively, can be run well, can serve the
22 people it's supposed to serve.
23 The problem, my colleagues, is that
24 there's folks outside of this room that I don't
25 trust. And I will once again mention the
5822
1 comments of the person in the White House who --
2 once again, who said very clearly and explicitly,
3 "We can't forward those things, those social
4 programs. We can't afford them. We have to put
5 them into military might." He said that very
6 explicitly, and the actions of this particular
7 administration tell me that that's what they're
8 trying to do.
9 So here in this state we're trying
10 to do the best that we can to protect a system
11 that I believe can be absolutely done better.
12 And everybody who is a colleague who's on the
13 Health Committee will tell you that we've had
14 many conversations, both in public and in
15 private. I have not been a -- I am not -- I
16 don't know if you know, but I can be loud and I
17 can be annoying and I can be very open when I
18 have criticisms of whatever administration we're
19 talking about.
20 So I can certainly say that there's
21 a lot of things that we need to do to make sure
22 that the system works better. We absolutely need
23 to serve our rural areas better. We need to make
24 sure, as Senator Borrello was saying, that we
25 actually pay people for the actual services that
5823
1 they're providing. All these things we can agree
2 on, and I think that we need to work to make the
3 system a little bit better.
4 I would once again warn you,
5 gentlemen and ladies, colleagues all, that the
6 problem with getting those folks involved is that
7 that's not what they want to do. They want to
8 gut the whole thing. Everything that has to do
9 with the social safety net, they want to do away
10 with it. And then the poor working-class folks
11 in your neighborhoods, in rural areas, in upstate
12 New York, those are the folks that are going to
13 get screwed, along with the folks in my district.
14 A couple of extra things. Senator
15 Rhoads, we were talking about HCRA. It was
16 created in 1996 under a Republican majority, with
17 a Republican governor. So there's that.
18 It was created certainly to fund
19 certain things and it has become kind of
20 something that we use to fund certain programs
21 that are important. And we probably could use
22 another -- we could do -- we could take other --
23 we could figure out other ways to pay for these
24 programs. And I believe that we might be able to
25 do so in the future. Because I would say, to
5824
1 finish, that when I -- I did mention the New York
2 Health Act, and I'll finish with that.
3 I would like to have a conversation
4 with all of you, sincerely, any time, one-on-one,
5 and I would like to tell you how we can create a
6 system which would benefit every single person in
7 the state, including every single one of your
8 constituents, including you and every member of
9 your family, cost us a lot less money, and
10 deliver better services.
11 And not to put everybody on
12 Medicaid. That's not what I want to do. I do
13 want to transform the system, though. And I
14 believe that we can do it. And it can cost a
15 lot -- a hell of a lot less and work a lot
16 better. I would want to have a conversation with
17 you about that.
18 But as it relates to this budget
19 bill, Madam President, I will be voting in the
20 affirmative. Certainly there's things that we
21 did not do here. But there are some things that
22 that we did hold the line on, which I believe
23 that we needed to hold the line on. And I'm very
24 thankful to the leader and to the staff that
25 actually fought tooth and nail to get to this
5825
1 bill that we have in front of us.
2 I'll be voting in the affirmative.
3 Thank you, Madam President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
5 Rivera to be recorded in the affirmative.
6 Announce the results.
7 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
8 Calendar Number 1333, voting in the negative are
9 Senators Ashby, Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick,
10 Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Lanza, Martinez,
11 Martins, Mattera, Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara,
12 Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk and
13 Weik.
14 Ayes, 43. Nays, 20.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
16 is passed.
17 Senator Gianaris.
18 SENATOR GIANARIS: Madam President,
19 let's move on to Calendar 1332, please.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
21 Secretary will read.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number --
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: There's
24 a substitution at the desk.
25 The Secretary will read.
5826
1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Krueger
2 moves to discharge, from the Committee on
3 Finance, Assembly Bill Number 10004D and
4 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
5 9004D, Third Reading Calendar 1332.
6 Calendar Number 1332, Assembly Bill
7 Number 10004D, an act making appropriations for
8 the support of government.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
10 Martins, why do you rise?
11 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
12 Madam President.
13 I was wondering if the sponsor would
14 yield for a few questions regarding capital
15 expenditures in the budget, the first question
16 having to do with capital being appropriated for
17 libraries in New York State.
18 SENATOR GIANARIS: Let's try
19 Senator Bynoe and see what the question is.
20 (Laughter.)
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
22 Bynoe, do you yield?
23 SENATOR BYNOE: I yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
25 Senator yields.
5827
1 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you very
2 much. Thank you, Madam President. Through you.
3 Senator, can you tell us how much
4 money is in the budget for capital to assist our
5 libraries across New York State?
6 SENATOR BYNOE: Forty-four million.
7 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
8 Madam President, through you, if the
9 Senator would continue to yield.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
11 Senator yield?
12 SENATOR BYNOE: Yes, I yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
14 Senator yields.
15 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
16 And is that an increase over last
17 year? And if so, by how much?
18 SENATOR BYNOE: It actually
19 restores last year at 44 million. But it was
20 proposed in the budget at 34 million. The Senate
21 one-house increased it.
22 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
23 Madam President, through you, if the
24 Senator will continue to yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
5828
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR BYNOE: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR MARTINS: And just out of
6 curiosity -- and I don't profess to know the
7 answer, and I hope you do -- how many libraries
8 do we have in our communities across New York
9 State?
10 (Pause.)
11 SENATOR BYNOE: Through you,
12 Madam President, 7,000.
13 SENATOR MARTINS: I'm sorry?
14 SENATOR BYNOE: Seven thousand.
15 SENATOR MARTINS: Seven thousand.
16 Thank you.
17 SENATOR BYNOE: Correct.
18 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you very
19 much. Thank you, Senator. Thank you,
20 Madam President.
21 I have a few questions with regard
22 to specific projects that -- for which the budget
23 is allocating capital. One of them is the
24 Galleria, in Westchester. I was hoping someone
25 could answer some questions regarding that
5829
1 project.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
3 Mayer, do you yield?
4 SENATOR MAYER: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
6 Senator yields.
7 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
8 Madam President. Through you.
9 I saw that there was an allocation
10 in the budget for $175 million for this project.
11 Is that correct?
12 SENATOR MAYER: Through you,
13 Madam President, yes, that is correct, for the
14 Galleria project.
15 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
16 Madam President, through you, if the
17 sponsor would continue to yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
19 sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR MAYER: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR MARTINS: The Galleria
24 project, is that a privately owned project in
25 White Plains? Or is that a different project
5830
1 with the same name?
2 SENATOR MAYER: Through you,
3 Madam President. It's referred in the
4 legislation as the District Galleria Project in
5 White Plains.
6 It is a transformative proposal of
7 taking the old Galleria Mall, if you're familiar
8 with White Plains, and transforming it into a --
9 both a residential market rate and affordable
10 housing development with commercial and other
11 real estate, of which there would be 3,000 units
12 of housing. That's an incredible number, of
13 which at least 25 percent will be affordable at
14 60 percent of AMI, plus a project labor
15 agreement, working with the building trades of
16 Westchester and Putnam, plus other agreements
17 that have been made by the developer.
18 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
19 Madam President. If the sponsor would continue
20 to yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR MAYER: Yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
25 sponsor yields.
5831
1 SENATOR MARTINS: Is this project a
2 government-owned project or is it a privately
3 owned project?
4 SENATOR MAYER: Through you,
5 Madam President. This is being developed by a
6 private -- a series of private developers, with
7 the strong support of the City of White Plains
8 mayor and the Common Council, and it will involve
9 the purchase or possession of publicly owned
10 property as well as privately owned property.
11 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
12 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
13 yield.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
15 sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR MAYER: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR MARTINS: So is the
20 $175 million, is that an outright grant, is it a
21 loan that the people of the State of New York can
22 expect to be paid back by this private developer,
23 or perhaps some other arrangement?
24 SENATOR MAYER: Through you,
25 Madam President. It is a grant, just like other
5832
1 grants for capital projects.
2 But it needs to go through all the
3 approval process that these kinds of grants --
4 which there are others in this budget, and have
5 been others many times in the past -- have to go
6 through in order to achieve a state goal of both
7 construction and creation of a significant number
8 of affordable units in a community that's sorely
9 in need of them.
10 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
11 Madam President, through you, if the
12 sponsor would continue to yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
14 sponsor yield?
15 SENATOR MAYER: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR MARTINS: So just to be
19 clear, once this project is completed the
20 developer, this private entity, will get to
21 maintain the benefits of the $175 million, will
22 collect the rents for themselves, albeit a
23 percentage of those are going to be affordable,
24 and will continue to own that without the
25 taxpayers of the State of New York having a right
5833
1 to an interest in any portion of the project. Is
2 that correct?
3 SENATOR MAYER: Through you,
4 Madam President. I actually would say that's an
5 incorrect way to describe this project.
6 Like other investments that the
7 State of New York makes in creation of affordable
8 housing -- changing, for example, all of
9 Times Square, if you were around that many years
10 ago, as I was, which was an investment that
11 involved both private and public investment.
12 The state invests in the creation of
13 housing and new economic development activity
14 that will benefit the city, the County of
15 Westchester, the people who are able to live in
16 high-quality affordable housing and be able to
17 stay in their homes and their residence and their
18 county. So it will have multiple benefits to the
19 residents of Westchester, to the tenants who are
20 going to be able to be there, both affordable and
21 market rate.
22 And to the extent that there are
23 benefits to the developer, there's also costs
24 associated with the development that will -- some
25 of which will be offset by this fund.
5834
1 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
2 Madam President, through you, if the
3 sponsor would continue to yield.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Will the
5 sponsor yield?
6 SENATOR MAYER: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR MARTINS: So what's the
10 overall cost of this project?
11 SENATOR MAYER: Through you,
12 Madam President, it's over $2 billion. I had to
13 make sure I had the "b," not the "m".
14 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
15 Madam President, through you, if the
16 sponsor would continue to yield.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
18 sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR MAYER: Yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
21 Senator yields.
22 SENATOR MARTINS: Aside from this
23 $175 million, will this developer be receiving
24 any other assistance either from the City of
25 White Plains, from the County of Westchester, or
5835
1 any other governmental entity to assist them with
2 regard to the project?
3 SENATOR MAYER: Through you,
4 Madam President, I don't believe so. But I
5 cannot be certain that the City of White Plains
6 may not come up with some way to make the deal
7 work for them.
8 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
9 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
10 yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR MAYER: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
15 Senator yields.
16 SENATOR MARTINS: Do you know if
17 they'll be seeking an inducement from a local
18 IDA, for example, perhaps a PILOT to avoid paying
19 property taxes, as a result of this $2 billion
20 investment and this $175 million grant?
21 Do you know whether any of these
22 projects -- or this project in particular is
23 going to seek sales tax inducements, mortgage tax
24 inducements or PILOTs as a result of this
25 development?
5836
1 SENATOR MAYER: Through you,
2 Madam President. One, I would point out that
3 this is very early in the development that is
4 going to allow the project to move forward.
5 There are many approvals and municipal agreements
6 that need to be reached along the way.
7 It can be or it could be that the
8 developer or the city or the county is going to
9 seek or obtain additional benefits. That has not
10 been clarified at this point. This is in order
11 to make a wise investment in a wise outcome
12 that's going to create affordable housing and
13 good-paying jobs for hundreds of Westchester
14 residents.
15 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
16 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
17 yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
19 sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR MAYER: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR MARTINS: So I think a few
24 minutes ago you spoke to a process whereby they
25 were selected for this $175 million. Can you
5837
1 speak to what process they went through in order
2 to be vetted in order to be allowed this
3 advantage of $175 million?
4 What did they do? Was there an RFP?
5 Was there some other public process where they
6 were competing with other developers, perhaps,
7 for the opportunity to get this $175 million?
8 Can you describe the process you mentioned
9 earlier?
10 SENATOR MAYER: Through you,
11 Madam President.
12 One, I'm not aware of any other
13 developer who has offered to engage in a process
14 of taking an old indoor mall, which is defunct
15 and sitting there, and transforming it into over
16 3,000 units, of which 800 will be affordable for
17 so many people in Westchester and create union
18 jobs for the creation of the construction and the
19 post-construction work of the people who actually
20 service those buildings. So I'm not aware of
21 anyone else.
22 But what was presented was the
23 unanimous support of the City Council of White
24 Plains and the mayor for this project and for
25 this funding.
5838
1 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
2 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
3 yield.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
5 sponsor yield?
6 SENATOR MAYER: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR MARTINS: So the
10 City Council and the mayor asked and supported
11 the idea of a project in the city getting
12 $175 million, and I expect that they would.
13 Was there an economic development
14 analysis done with regard to the project and its
15 economic impacts on not only White Plains and
16 Westchester but the region and perhaps the state
17 so that we could have a document that we can
18 refer to, to see what the impact would be and
19 what is coming back to the state as a result of
20 this payment?
21 SENATOR MAYER: Through you,
22 Madam President. The DEIS that was done on this
23 proposed project is an extensive review of the
24 proposal.
25 And in addition, the City of
5839
1 White Plains has already approved certain parts
2 of the process moving forward beyond just
3 conceptual agreement. So presented plans and
4 obviously this DEIS is subject to an extensive
5 analysis of both the number of housing units, the
6 number of school-age children, all of the factors
7 that are relevant to deciding this is a
8 worthwhile project.
9 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you. Thank
10 you, Senator. I appreciate the answers.
11 On the bill, Madam President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
13 Martins on the bill.
14 SENATOR MARTINS: You know, a DEIS
15 is a Draft Environmental Impact Statement. It's
16 part of a SEQR review. It goes through the
17 feasibility of putting this where it is, it
18 considers all kinds of things -- impacts to the
19 environment, impacts to traffic and parking, and
20 the benefits.
21 But it does not provide us with an
22 economic viability projection or an analysis with
23 regard to the economic impact to the community,
24 the state, or the region.
25 So, you know, I do have some
5840
1 concerns, Madam President -- obviously I hope my
2 colleagues would have as well -- at the idea of
3 giving $175 million without having that kind of
4 an analysis available. It's a lot of money,
5 certainly, on the scale of how we spend money
6 here.
7 And I only asked, obviously, the
8 questions about the libraries across New York
9 State and the 7,000 libraries we have in our
10 communities as a backdrop. As we all know, if
11 7,000 libraries in our communities are getting
12 $44 million and we're going to drop $175 million
13 for a private development in White Plains,
14 obviously we should ask questions about that.
15 Madam President, I do have a few
16 more questions. There's some questions about a
17 project in Atlantic Yards. Is there someone who
18 can speak to the project in Atlantic Yards?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:
20 Senator Brisport?
21 SENATOR BRISPORT: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Do you
23 yield?
24 SENATOR BRISPORT: I yield.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
5841
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
2 Senator yields.
3 SENATOR MARTINS: So, Senator, a
4 $175 million project, or I guess grant -- I'm
5 sorry, Madam President, through you. Is this
6 $175 million a grant, in the same way we just
7 discussed the project in White Plains, that will
8 be given to a project with no expectation that
9 it's going to be paid back by the developer?
10 (Pause.)
11 SENATOR BRISPORT: Madam President,
12 this is part of a larger fund that goes through
13 an extensive review process on behalf of the
14 project. It is for making sure that a platform
15 can be developed so that affordable housing can
16 be built over it.
17 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
18 Madam President, through you, if the
19 sponsor would continue to yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR BRISPORT: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: So I understand
5842
1 that this development and the previous developer
2 went bankrupt. And therefore there was a joint
3 venture from two private developers who have come
4 in now to do the project.
5 Is that your understanding as well?
6 SENATOR BRISPORT: Through you,
7 Madam President, yes.
8 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
9 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
10 yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR BRISPORT: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR MARTINS: So was the offer
17 made to the former developer before they went
18 bankrupt to give them $175 million in the hopes
19 that they would be able to finish this project?
20 Or did this opportunity to provide
21 the $175 million come about as a result of the
22 bankruptcy and the joint venture? Or something
23 else, Senator?
24 (Pause.)
25 SENATOR BRISPORT: Through you,
5843
1 Madam President. No, this was not offered to the
2 previous developer. It was part of an extensive
3 process with the new joint venture.
4 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
5 Madam President, through you, if the
6 sponsor would continue to yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
8 sponsor yield?
9 SENATOR BRISPORT: Yes.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR MARTINS: Can you tell us
13 whether or not there's an economic benefit to the
14 State of New York where they can expect for this
15 money to come back in some way through that
16 economic development, whether an analysis has
17 been done that allows for us to actually be able
18 to document that in the context of giving this
19 project $175 million?
20 SENATOR BRISPORT: Through you,
21 Madam President. The project -- this funding
22 will allow the construction of thousands of
23 homes, many of them affordable, in a
24 high-economic-output area right next to the
25 Barclay Center in Downtown Brooklyn.
5844
1 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
2 Madam President, through you, if the
3 sponsor would continue to yield.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
5 sponsor yield?
6 SENATOR BRISPORT: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR MARTINS: Was there an
10 economic development study prepared whereby that
11 $175 million payment by the taxpayers of New York
12 State can be translated into a benefit, either
13 regionally or back to the state, in the form of
14 economic development?
15 SENATOR BRISPORT: Through you,
16 Madam President. No, they are still very early
17 in the process. This is not something they would
18 do at this stage.
19 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
20 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
21 yield.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
23 sponsor yield?
24 SENATOR BRISPORT: Yes.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
5845
1 sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR MARTINS: One hundred
3 seventy-five million dollars is a very specific
4 number, it's a large number. And by coincidence,
5 it happens to be the same number that we were
6 discussing with regard to the project in
7 White Plains.
8 Can you tell me how we arrived at
9 $175 million for this project?
10 (Pause.)
11 SENATOR BRISPORT: Through you,
12 Madam President. The number was arrived at
13 through extensive negotiations between the
14 parties. They're -- this is still very early on
15 in the process, as we reach the next steps.
16 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
17 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
18 yield.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
20 sponsor yield?
21 SENATOR BRISPORT: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR MARTINS: Senator, if you
25 could, can you tell us who the parties are that
5846
1 negotiated these extensive negotiations where
2 essentially they're being given a gift of
3 $175 million? How extensive and how tough were
4 those negotiations to get them to accept
5 $175 million?
6 (Pause.)
7 SENATOR BRISPORT: Through you,
8 Madam President, that would be ESD, the second
9 floor, the developers and New York City.
10 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
11 Madam President, through you, if the
12 sponsor would continue to yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
14 sponsor yield?
15 SENATOR BRISPORT: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR MARTINS: So aside from the
19 Governor, is this a project that is supported by
20 the City of New York, the mayor, the
21 City Council, much the same way we heard about
22 the project in White Plains?
23 SENATOR BRISPORT: Through you,
24 Madam President. New York City is welcoming the
25 affordable housing that will be built from this
5847
1 project.
2 SENATOR MARTINS: Through you,
3 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
4 yield.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Will the
6 sponsor yield?
7 SENATOR BRISPORT: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR MARTINS: Yeah, but has the
11 mayor supported the gift of $175 million to a
12 private development in Brooklyn with no
13 opportunity or requirement that it be paid back?
14 Did the mayor issue a support for
15 this project? Not the housing, not the housing
16 component, but the project itself. It's a
17 private project. It's going to cost a ton of
18 money and cost the taxpayers of New York $175
19 million.
20 SENATOR BRISPORT: Through you,
21 Madam President. I'm failing to see how a
22 project that brings homes for thousands of people
23 does not pose an economic benefit for the people
24 of New York.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
5848
1 on the bill.
2 Thank you, Senator Brisport.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
4 Martins on the bill.
5 SENATOR MARTINS: So,
6 Madam President, two projects. And frankly, we
7 can go at this all night. I've got a half-hour,
8 and so I'm going to stop at some point. But we
9 can go down this list and everyone can sit back
10 and have a conversation about which projects they
11 are and maybe -- maybe some people will feel
12 uncomfortable about the amount of money that
13 we're talking about. It's a lot of money here
14 that is basically being gifted.
15 You know, we do a lot of talking and
16 we've done a lot of talking in this chamber about
17 taxing the rich. We've done a lot of talking
18 about people who are wealthy paying their fair
19 share.
20 And then here we are, towards the
21 end of this process, and we're talking about
22 astronomical numbers. We're talking about
23 numbers that should really be concerning to
24 everybody in this chamber. A hundred and
25 seventy-five million dollars to a private
5849
1 project?
2 Yeah, sure, it's going to build
3 affordable housing. We build affordable housing
4 in my community and, guess what, we're not
5 showing up with a check from New York State
6 taxpayers to get it done.
7 Those developers are building that
8 housing because they can build the housing, build
9 the affordable housing and get it done without
10 having to ask for $175 million. That's a fact.
11 So own it. These are just two
12 projects. We've got pages and pages of these
13 projects here. And we started out by talking
14 about libraries -- 7,000 libraries. We found
15 $44 million for them. It was supposed to be
16 $34 million, and we found $10 million to give
17 them an extra 10 million bucks.
18 And we all, a couple of months
19 ago -- or weeks ago, when we sat here and talked
20 about how libraries are -- and they are
21 incredible, they're important in our communities.
22 Each and every one of us and each and every one
23 of our communities benefits from the fact of
24 having libraries. And they're getting
25 $44 million.
5850
1 And in the last 20 minutes I talked
2 about two projects for $350 million that puts
3 $175 million in the hands of private entities.
4 And why? Because they can't make those projects
5 work on their own?
6 The rhetoric here sometimes baffles
7 me. The 1 percent we talked about before. The
8 1 percent. I am grateful for the jobs that these
9 projects will create. I think it's great. PLAs?
10 Fantastic. They'll earn their money, I guarantee
11 you that. Each and every one of the trades
12 that's going to work on these projects is going
13 to earn their wage and every penny of it.
14 My question isn't why we're using
15 PLAs. We should use PLAs and we should put our
16 tradespeople to work every chance we get. My
17 question is, why are we dropping $175 million on
18 it? Where's the connection to the state?
19 And I'll ask the question. Where
20 are the other economic development projects
21 across the state that could benefit from dropping
22 $175 million? You know what? Not 175 million,
23 maybe $25 million. Maybe there's a mall
24 somewhere that isn't in one of your districts
25 that can benefit from being converted into
5851
1 housing and create real economic opportunities
2 and create affordable housing and create
3 great-paying jobs.
4 But this is $350 million, two
5 projects. And $44 million for libraries.
6 Think about it.
7 And again, we all know what the
8 other pages of this stuff look like. If we had
9 time to go through each and every one of them, we
10 would. But we don't.
11 Madam President, that's all I have
12 for today.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Thank
14 you, Senator.
15 Senator Oberacker, why do you rise?
16 SENATOR OBERACKER: Well, good
17 evening, Madam President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Good
19 evening.
20 SENATOR OBERACKER: And I will be
21 having a quick question on the Ag & Markets
22 Department. And, you know, due to the atmosphere
23 here and how cool it is, it just brought up to
24 me, I have to ask a question on meat processing.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Okay,
5852
1 Senator --
2 SENATOR GIANARIS: Senator, if I
3 could just refer your question to
4 Senator Hinchey.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
6 Hinchey, do you yield?
7 SENATOR HINCHEY: I do.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
9 Senator yields.
10 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you.
11 Through you, Madam President.
12 And thank you, Senator Hinchey, for
13 moving over there. And I hated to move you for
14 just simply one question.
15 But my question is -- through you,
16 Madam President -- I was noticing that there is
17 zero dollars in this portion of our budget for
18 meat processing grants. Is that correct?
19 SENATOR HINCHEY: Through you,
20 Madam President, as my colleague knows, this
21 chamber created the Meat Processing Grant
22 Program, I believe it was back in the '23-'24
23 fiscal year. And the year after that, we didn't
24 appropriate new funds because we gave a year for
25 the RFP to go out, to get applications, then to
5853
1 see what the need was.
2 Then last year we put in another
3 $5 million because we knew that there was
4 additional need. That application is currently
5 in play. The RFP has been created. I believe
6 they're just waiting for final Comptroller review
7 and it will be going out the door.
8 So I look forward to hopefully in
9 the next budget, if there is need, to be
10 advocating for another 5 million. But right now
11 we're letting the second 5 million get out into
12 the community first.
13 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you,
14 Senator Hinchey.
15 On the bill, Madam President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
17 Oberacker on the bill.
18 SENATOR OBERACKER: And that was
19 very eloquently put. Thank you, Senator Hinchey.
20 But according to this, there is no
21 money being put into processing in this budget,
22 in this portion of the budget. And it's not
23 necessarily, I would say, a grave or a huge issue
24 in that -- but we do need more processing. There
25 is no doubt in New York we need more processing.
5854
1 If COVID taught us nothing -- if
2 COVID taught us nothing, it taught us to be
3 integrated and to be able to supply ourselves
4 with a very important part of our daily lives,
5 which is of course food and meats in general.
6 You know, there's a saying that we
7 say, we say "No farms, no food." Well, I say "No
8 farms, no food; no processing, no food; and
9 therefore no farms." And you can see how we can
10 connect those dots.
11 This is my last bill that I will be
12 able to debate in this context. And so I'm going
13 to leave my colleagues with this. When it comes
14 to processing, I would love to see next year a
15 focus on processing for more on-site processing
16 for our dairy farms to be able to process there.
17 Our maple syrup, which is, as I've referred to in
18 this august chamber, is nectar from the gods, we
19 need more processing for our maple syrup as well.
20 And lastly, there is some good that
21 comes out of this portion of it. I'm glad to see
22 that we are having some funding for our local
23 fairs, so I would say thank you for that, as well
24 as support for our focused -- our school lunch
25 program.
5855
1 So into every life a little rain
2 must fall. This one's not too bad on that.
3 And with that, Madam President, if I
4 could, I also would like to ask some questions on
5 the homeland security portion of the bill.
6 SENATOR GIANARIS: That would be
7 Senator Martinez.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
9 Martinez, do you yield?
10 SENATOR MARTINEZ: I do.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
12 Senator yields.
13 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you,
14 Senator.
15 So one of the areas I've noticed is
16 that there is a decrease in appropriation of
17 grants for our volunteer firefighters of about
18 5 million. There was 25 million last year,
19 20 million this year.
20 Just out of curiosity, I was
21 wondering what was maybe the catalyst or the
22 impetus for the reduction.
23 (Pause.)
24 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Through you,
25 Madam President. The Executive felt that because
5856
1 it was not oversubscribed, that they would see
2 how far this money would go.
3 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you,
4 Senator, for that.
5 On the bill, Madam President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
7 Oberacker on the bill.
8 SENATOR OBERACKER: You know, as a
9 40-year member of my firefighting company, I'm a
10 little disheartened to see any type of a
11 decrease, of course, when it comes to our men and
12 women who are out there every day volunteering.
13 I look at it as a return on investment. And even
14 at 25 million, I think the investment that we get
15 far outweighs the money that we put in. So I
16 would love to see us even go a little bit more in
17 the next and coming budgets.
18 You know, we didn't pass any tax
19 relief, any tax relief for our firefighters. And
20 again, I think when we team up a reduction in
21 some of the grants and not offering the tax
22 relief, I think we're starting to send a signal
23 out there which I'm a little concerned about,
24 that maybe we're not appreciating,
25 Madam President, our firefighters, and
5857
1 firefighting women as well, as much as we should.
2 You know, equipment is starting to
3 age out in a lot of these houses, and one
4 apparatus, one truck, could be easily a
5 million-plus to replace. Our Air-Paks, our
6 SCBAs, they are between $10,000 and $15,000 per
7 unit, Madam President.
8 And so I think when we start to look
9 at that 5 million, it could really supply quite a
10 few of our firefighters with our Air-Paks and so
11 on.
12 Lastly, I notice that we are
13 creating, Madam President, a new state emergency
14 operations center to the tune of about
15 $150 million. I question the return on
16 investment, because I know each and every one of
17 our local county emergency services do such a
18 great job of managing when it comes to this. I
19 think that money would have been better spent at
20 the local level.
21 So with that, Madam President, I
22 hope I have shown my colleagues that one question
23 and going on the bill can sometimes move things
24 forward in an expeditious manner. And I thank
25 everyone for the opportunity to listen to me.
5858
1 Madam President, thank you.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Thank
3 you, Senator.
4 Senator Ashby, why do you rise?
5 SENATOR ASHBY: Thank you,
6 Madam President.
7 Would the appropriate Senator yield
8 for questions on the infrastructure of dams?
9 SENATOR GIANARIS: That would be
10 Senator Harckham, Madam President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
12 Harckham, do you yield?
13 SENATOR HARCKHAM: I do.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
15 Senator yields.
16 SENATOR ASHBY: Thank you,
17 Senator Harckham.
18 Through you, Madam President. Are
19 you aware of any additional funding for the
20 rehabilitation of dams in this budget?
21 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Through you,
22 Madam President, there are two sources. One is
23 there was a very late capital add from the
24 Executive for $24 million, including the
25 Conklingville Dam project. We are not sure what
5859
1 the details are.
2 Through you, Madam President, when
3 Senator Ashby and I met with Parks and DEC, there
4 were several different versions of projects that
5 they could do with that dam. One was a complete
6 replace, which was very expensive. One was a
7 repair, which was sort of mid-price. And then
8 one was a complete teardown.
9 So we don't have the details on what
10 they're planning. We can get that for you as
11 soon as we get that. But there is $24 million
12 for that.
13 The other source of funding is in
14 the original Environmental Bond Act that was
15 passed a few years ago, there was -- 1.1 billion
16 of that was for flood mitigation projects. Dam
17 projects were eligible in that pot of money.
18 There's a little bit less than
19 $850 million left in the dam -- in the flood
20 mitigation pot, and municipalities can apply for
21 dam projects for there as well.
22 SENATOR ASHBY: Will the sponsor
23 yield?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
25 sponsor yield?
5860
1 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR ASHBY: Through you,
5 Madam President. That's -- it's great to hear
6 that there was that late add in addition to the
7 funding that was there prior.
8 Do you know if there's a plan to
9 address the 164 publicly owned dams with an
10 "unsound" rating?
11 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Through you,
12 Madam President, that is something that we have
13 been exploring.
14 Several years ago, after there was a
15 national tragedy because of an earthen dam
16 failure, DEC went and inspected all of the
17 earthen dams in New York State, as Senator Ashby
18 alluded to, and many of them were found to be
19 unsound, unsafe. And so funding has been an
20 issue.
21 Which was why, when we created the
22 Environmental Bond Act, we insisted that there be
23 money for local dam projects. Because I think,
24 unlike the other one, which is state-owned
25 property where DEC will directly be in charge of
5861
1 that capital project, the others -- smaller
2 municipalities and lake associations like I have
3 and many of us have in our districts -- will have
4 to apply for money and look for money.
5 So that's why we put that money into
6 the bond act.
7 SENATOR ASHBY: Will the Senator
8 yield?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR ASHBY: Through you,
15 Madam President. Do you think that the state
16 should review any of the dams out there for the
17 potential for small or medium hydroelectric
18 power?
19 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Through you,
20 Madam President, that is not contemplated in the
21 bond act before us.
22 You know, that is really up to
23 NYSERDA and NYPA. Based on the hydro folks that
24 I have met with, there's not a lot of new hydro
25 being done on the smaller dams because it's just
5862
1 not cost-effective. So that's really up to the
2 energy folks, but that's not contemplated in this
3 bill.
4 SENATOR ASHBY: On the bill.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
6 Ashby on the bill.
7 SENATOR ASHBY: I want to thank
8 Senator Harckham for all of his help and
9 cooperation over the last year in helping to
10 address the Dunham Dam in my district.
11 I would hope that we would all be a
12 little more open to the possibility of utilizing
13 these structures for hydropower. As of 8 p.m.
14 this evening, according to the ISO, it was
15 generating 24 percent of our energy in the state,
16 and that's 87 percent of our total renewable
17 energy. I think we should look at this maybe a
18 little more seriously.
19 Thank you.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Thank
21 you, Senator.
22 Senator Walczyk, why do you rise?
23 SENATOR WALCZYK: Madam President,
24 I hope someone would yield for some questions on
25 capital appropriations.
5863
1 SENATOR GIANARIS: Sure. What
2 topic?
3 SENATOR WALCZYK: Starting with
4 WE ACT, then Hip Hop Museum, then Garth Fagan.
5 SENATOR GIANARIS: Okay, WE ACT and
6 Garth Fagan is actually both Senator Baskin. So
7 I would encourage you to pool those together and
8 then we can go from there.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: I'll switch them
10 around.
11 SENATOR GIANARIS: Thank you.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
13 Baskin, do you yield?
14 SENATOR BASKIN: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
16 Senator yields.
17 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
18 Madam President. So we've got $4 million for
19 WE ACT for Environmental Justice. Their website
20 shows that they focus pretty much on a lot of the
21 energy issues and environmental issues that get
22 lobbied here in Albany. And their mission
23 statement encourages participation in creating
24 policy changes.
25 What are they going to do with the
5864
1 $4 million in taxpayer money?
2 (Pause.)
3 SENATOR BASKIN: Thank you.
4 Through you, Madam President.
5 The intention and mission with the
6 $4 million is to create an Environmental Justice
7 Center in West Harlem.
8 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
9 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
10 yield?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR BASKIN: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: There's also a
17 $4 million appropriation for the Garth Fagan
18 Dance School.
19 We already give, through Council of
20 the Arts, $25,000 a year to help them with
21 operations. What are they going to spend the
22 $4 million in taxpayer money on?
23 (Pause.)
24 SENATOR BASKIN: Thank you.
25 Through you, Madam President. The
5865
1 previous funding mentioned is operational. So
2 this is a different allocation, which is a
3 one-time expected allocation of support to
4 develop a dance studio.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you.
6 Madam President, would someone yield
7 for the Hip Hop Museum?
8 SENATOR GIANARIS: That would be --
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
10 Bailey, do you yield?
11 SENATOR GIANARIS: -- proudly,
12 Senator Bailey would yield.
13 SENATOR BAILEY: Let me please
14 introduce myself --
15 (Laughter.)
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
17 Bailey yields.
18 SENATOR BAILEY: Absolutely.
19 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
20 Madam President. I'm not surprised to see my
21 colleague answer questions. I feel like
22 Groundhog Day on this one.
23 We have $6 million for the Hip Hop
24 Museum allocated in this budget. I know I've
25 asked questions in past budget years on the
5866
1 Hip Hop Museum. Didn't we already build this
2 thing?
3 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
4 Madam President. The Hip Hop Museum, located in
5 the South Bronx in Senator Serrano's district,
6 looks to be a cultural hub of the birthplace of
7 hip-hop.
8 And to answer your question a little
9 bit more in a roundabout way, the completion of
10 the project is not done yet because it is more
11 than just a hip-hop museum. It is part of an
12 affordable housing development in the area. So
13 it's not completed yet, and we continue to
14 support the mission of the Hip Hop Museum, much
15 like we support the mission of many other museums
16 and cultural institutions throughout this great
17 state.
18 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
19 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
20 yield?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
25 sponsor yields.
5867
1 SENATOR WALCZYK: So is the
2 $6 million going to the Hip Hop Museum in order
3 to build affordable housing in the area around
4 it?
5 SENATOR BAILEY: No, the $6 million
6 is going to the Hip Hop museum to continue
7 building the Hip Hop Museum. I just thought you
8 would like some more context on what the Hip Hop
9 Museum does in the area that it is in, and how it
10 is emblematic of arts and culture and how that
11 arts and culture continues to be important in
12 communities such as the South Bronx.
13 And having affordable housing around
14 it, I just thought you'd like to know that little
15 tidbit.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
17 Madam President, will the sponsor continue to
18 yield?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
20 sponsor yield?
21 SENATOR BAILEY: Proudly.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: I appreciate the
25 tidbits, absolutely.
5868
1 And through you, Madam President.
2 So because we've allocated funds to this and it's
3 being completed, will this $6 million be the last
4 time we're doing construction and asking for
5 capital funding for the Hip Hop Museum? Is this
6 it?
7 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
8 Madam President, I would not be able to tell my
9 colleague.
10 But I can tell you that we are not
11 the only entity that provides funding for the
12 Hip Hop Museum. It is an incredibly large
13 project. And I say this not facetiously, I would
14 like for you to come down and see it when the
15 groundbreaking is -- excuse me, the
16 groundbreaking was on May 20, 2021, and you know
17 I was in the building, Madam President.
18 I would hope that when it's finally
19 built, you come down and check it out about arts
20 and culture. This is funded not just by the
21 State of New York, it's funded by the City of
22 New York. There's been federal money given to
23 it, and there's been private investment into it.
24 So we are not the only ones footing
25 the bill, so to speak, for the Hip Hop Museum.
5869
1 Again, so there's a lot more than just New York
2 State money -- funding in there, so.
3 But I would not be able to tell you
4 if this is the last infusion of money from the
5 state.
6 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
7 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
8 yield.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR WALCZYK: When's the
15 ribbon-cutting?
16 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
17 Madam President. Once the ribbon-cutting
18 happens, I will make sure that I tell my good
19 colleague. We do not have a date yet.
20 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you.
21 And Madam President, if someone
22 would yield on NYSERDA.
23 SENATOR GIANARIS: That's
24 Senator Harckham.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
5870
1 Harckham, do you yield?
2 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Yes, I do.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
6 Madam President, thank you.
7 We're giving a billion dollars to
8 NYSERDA's Sustainable Futures in this capital
9 appropriation bill. We did eliminate or push
10 back the EV bus mandate for schools. There was a
11 $250 million pot out of Sustainable Futures that
12 was used year after year to fund that program.
13 Why didn't we see a $250 million
14 reduction as we pushed that timeline out for
15 school districts to comply?
16 (Pause.)
17 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Through you,
18 Madam President. What we have done is a
19 $75 million dollar investment for zero-emissions
20 infrastructure statewide, not just for school
21 buses. This can be used for fast charging, for
22 Charge Ready NY, EV buses, for school districts
23 for infrastructure, for charging.
24 One of the areas where we're lacking
25 in New York State is heavy-duty charging. Places
5871
1 like California are much further ahead of us and
2 are actually using electric trucks for their
3 interstate trips. We don't have that
4 infrastructure in New York. We need to start
5 investing in that.
6 So this is for a whole suite of
7 EV infrastructure.
8 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
9 Madam President, will the sponsor continue to
10 yield?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: Okay. So -- and
17 there was already a pot specifically under
18 Sustainable Futures for EV, but you're taking the
19 250 from the EV bus mandate for schools and
20 sliding that into the pot --
21 SENATOR HARCKHAM: I'm sorry.
22 Through you, Madam President, that was the last
23 Sustainable Futures fund, was -- (pause). It
24 wasn't 250 -- give us one second, if you may.
25 (Pause.)
5872
1 SENATOR HARCKHAM: It was
2 100 million.
3 So that is still out there for
4 school districts to take advantage of. So even
5 though we have pushed the compliance date out
6 five years, we're still offering funding for
7 school districts to continue down that process.
8 There just is no penalty.
9 And so last year was 100 million
10 for -- specifically for school districts for
11 EV buses. This year, the 75 is for all
12 EV infrastructure.
13 One of the things we did hear from
14 schools is they would like assistance
15 transitioning their boilers, their
16 air-conditioning, things like that. So we
17 invested 50 million in the Clean Green Schools
18 program to help them with that transition as they
19 requested.
20 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
21 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
22 yield?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
24 sponsor yield?
25 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Yes.
5873
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
2 sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR WALCZYK: Okay, so I think
4 I understand now.
5 There's $100 million for the EV bus
6 mandate for schools that still exists. But since
7 we pushed that deadline out, why didn't we just
8 reduce the Sustainable Futures this year by that
9 $100 million?
10 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Through you,
11 Madam President, because we still believe as
12 state policy that we should be going down that
13 route as a public health measure to protect our
14 children from the 20-times-more-harmful
15 pollutants that they breathe while on those
16 buses.
17 We also know that studies have shown
18 the cost to fuel and maintain those buses are in
19 the long term, over the life cycle of the bus
20 less expensively for school districts so more,
21 less expensive for school districts. So they're
22 more expensive up-front, but they save money over
23 the life cycle.
24 So we haven't -- we haven't ended
25 the state policy, we have just pushed out -- as
5874
1 we have all heard from our school districts,
2 number one, we think some of the bus companies
3 overpromised on what they could deliver.
4 Two, we have all heard the stories
5 of our utilities and grid being not able to be
6 compatible immediately with the needs of the
7 school districts.
8 And so we are still continuing down
9 the policy of -- but we have just extended the
10 timeline by five years.
11 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you. I
12 appreciate it.
13 Madam President, on the bill.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
15 Walczyk on the bill.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: Yeah,
17 overpromised is absolutely right.
18 I represent the district of
19 Alexandria Bay, which was an early adopter, took
20 advantage of that pot when it came out. Got two
21 electric buses that were functioning so poorly
22 and the parents were so concerned after students
23 were getting stranded out in negative 20,
24 negative 30 degree temperatures with a bus that
25 said it had an 80 percent battery but just
5875
1 stopped in the middle of the road.
2 After going round and round and
3 seeing their bus -- with the manufacturer and
4 seeing their buses on flat-racks and lowboys
5 headed to maintenance more often than they were
6 delivering children, the manufacturer actually
7 said, "We'll give you two more of these buses to
8 say sorry." And all four of those buses have
9 been functioning just as poorly.
10 And I asked the superintendent --
11 and this is why I want to clear this up for the
12 record -- "But is it more cost-effective to run?"
13 You know, maybe some of these maintenance things
14 aside.
15 And he said: "Actually, because of
16 the cost of electricity in New York State, it is
17 actually cheaper for me to operate, maintain and
18 run my diesel buses than it is to buy electricity
19 to charge these electric buses."
20 And they've seen the same
21 skyrocketing energy prices that every other
22 New Yorker is experiencing. And if you talk to
23 your school superintendents, this wasn't always a
24 line item that they were concerned about with
25 their budget, was electricity prices. This year,
5876
1 I'm sure if you've talked to your local
2 superintendents, they've brought it up. They
3 certainly have to me.
4 And with that, Madam President, I
5 would ask someone to yield on the DHSES portion
6 of this bill.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
8 Gianaris?
9 SENATOR GIANARIS: DHSES, did I
10 hear that correctly?
11 SENATOR WALCZYK: DHSES.
12 SENATOR GIANARIS: That would be
13 Senator Martinez, I believe. Who just stepped
14 out. So we'll just pause for a moment and get
15 her back in here.
16 (Pause.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
18 Martinez, do you yield?
19 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Yes, I do.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
21 Senator yields.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you.
23 Through you, Madam President. So I
24 heard the discussion earlier, there's a
25 $150 million increase to build an emergency
5877
1 operations center.
2 Where are they building this thing?
3 (Pause.)
4 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Through you,
5 Madam President, if you can just give us one
6 minute while we look for the answer. (Pause.)
7 Through you, Madam President, in
8 Albany.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
10 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
11 yield?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
13 sponsor yield?
14 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR WALCZYK: We've heard that
18 each county has its own emergency operations.
19 Why was there a decision to consolidate into one
20 massive state center rather than help the
21 counties out that have been struggling with
22 dispatch and operational center needs for a long
23 time?
24 I don't remember this coming up in
25 budget hearings or major public discussions. Can
5878
1 you tell me why that decision was made to spend
2 $150 million on a center in Albany?
3 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Through you,
4 Madam President. This center would communicate
5 with all other counties as well.
6 SENATOR WALCZYK: Indeed. Thank
7 you, Madam President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Thank
9 you, Senator.
10 Senator Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, why
11 do you rise?
12 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
13 Thank you, Madam President. I was wondering if
14 someone would yield for questions on RESTORE.
15 SENATOR GIANARIS: That would still
16 be Senator Martinez.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
18 Martinez, do you yield?
19 SENATOR MARTINEZ: I do.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
21 Senator yields.
22 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
23 Thank you, Madam President. Through you, I'm
24 trying to determine how much money is allocated
25 in this budget for RESTORE.
5879
1 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Through you,
2 Madam President, 50 million.
3 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
4 Will the sponsor continue to yield?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
6 sponsor yield?
7 SENATOR MARTINEZ: I do.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: I
11 see 50 million under Economic Development, and I
12 also saw another 2.6 million under Housing &
13 Social Welfare. Is that also in addition to the
14 50 million?
15 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Through you,
16 Madam President, we believe that's a different
17 program.
18 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
19 Excuse me?
20 SENATOR MARTINEZ: A different
21 program.
22 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
23 Different program.
24 Through you, Madam President, will
25 the sponsor continue to yield?
5880
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR MARTINEZ: I do.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: Can
7 you describe how this amount was determined and
8 what it will be spent on in the coming year?
9 (Pause.)
10 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Through you,
11 Madam President. This allows municipalities to
12 use that money to refurbish old buildings that
13 are no longer usable.
14 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
15 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
16 continue to yield.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
18 sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR MARTINEZ: I do.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: So
23 is there a specific request that's pending for
24 these types of funds? How was the 50 million
25 arrived at?
5881
1 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Through you,
2 Madam President, this was done through
3 negotiations between the Executive and the two
4 chambers.
5 But once the money is allocated, the
6 municipalities would have to file an application.
7 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
8 Thank you.
9 I'd like to now ask a few questions
10 on NY SWIMS and NY PLAYS.
11 SENATOR GIANARIS: That will be
12 Senator Serrano.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
14 Serrano, do you yield?
15 SENATOR SERRANO: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
17 Senator yields.
18 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
19 Thank you, Madam President. Through you.
20 Similar to questions that I was just
21 asking, could you tell me how was the amount in
22 the budget arrived at? And how will that money
23 be spent?
24 SENATOR SERRANO: Through you,
25 Madam President. Thank you for that question,
5882
1 Senator.
2 Both of those programs, NY SWIMS and
3 NY PLAYS, are two very important programs that
4 many in our conference and throughout the
5 Legislature, and obviously the Governor, care
6 deeply about.
7 NY SWIMS will -- has been the
8 largest investment in swimming infrastructure
9 since the New Deal, and it provides grants to
10 municipalities and nonprofits to build up
11 swimming infrastructure to ensure, in particular,
12 underserved communities can have access to swim
13 instruction and swimming facilities, and to make
14 sure people can learn to swim.
15 In its initial funding there was
16 $90 million put for that program. It was
17 oversubscribed. So we in our one-house put forth
18 additional funding, and we have $20 million in
19 here for NY SWIMS because it was a very
20 worthwhile project, we believe, and certainly a
21 very important goal.
22 NY PLAYS will do the same, but for
23 playgrounds and recreational facilities
24 throughout the state -- again, with a lean
25 towards underserved communities -- also
5883
1 $20 million.
2 So those amounts, to answer your
3 question, were arrived at based on the amount of
4 enthusiasm and oversubscription for them. In
5 building upon the original investment, we felt
6 that this was something that we could do to keep
7 it going.
8 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
9 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
10 continue to yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR SERRANO: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: So
17 just to clarify, these two programs are -- can be
18 applied for by municipalities throughout the
19 state? It's not just focused on New York City or
20 a particular area, it's any municipality
21 throughout the state, is that correct?
22 SENATOR SERRANO: Through you,
23 Madam President. That is correct. And
24 nonprofits as well.
25 And the scope is the entire State of
5884
1 New York, because every town and village I think
2 has a need to ensure that young people have
3 access to swimming infrastructure to learn how to
4 swim. It's one of the most important things you
5 can teach anyone, is how to swim. And it's not a
6 luxury. It should be something that is a
7 baseline of foundational learning in our state,
8 is to learn how to swim.
9 And also playing. You know, we have
10 to ensure that our children have safe and readily
11 available playground equipment that they can
12 utilize. It is really important for their
13 development.
14 I think there is a tremendous amount
15 of data that is no longer anecdotal, it's
16 scientific, that says that children engaging in
17 recreation build a lot of problem-solving skills,
18 socialization, as well as physical fitness and
19 mental health.
20 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
21 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
22 continue to yield?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
24 sponsor yield?
25 SENATOR SERRANO: Yes.
5885
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
2 sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: So
4 can you please confirm for me the total amount
5 that's being spent in this budget on these two
6 programs?
7 SENATOR SERRANO: Through you,
8 Madam President, $20 million for each program, NY
9 SWIMS and NY PLAYS, for a total of $40 million.
10 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
11 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
12 continue to yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
14 sponsor yield?
15 SENATOR SERRANO: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: You
19 mentioned that the program was oversubscribed.
20 So if we were to try to estimate, how much was
21 applied for last year that we weren't able to
22 issue such that we came up with the 20 million
23 for each program?
24 (Pause.)
25 SENATOR SERRANO: Through you,
5886
1 Madam President. During the first round of
2 funding, it was only for municipalities.
3 Nonprofits were not included. Now they are. So
4 in the second round there was an additional usage
5 of those funds.
6 But now in our third round we see an
7 opportunity -- and again, it's really the
8 feedback that we've been getting from localities,
9 from different members, from our representatives,
10 saying, You know, this is a really good program,
11 we couldn't get it in our first or second round,
12 we would like to find a way to be a part of this
13 as well.
14 It really shows that there is
15 tremendous demand and interest for swim
16 infrastructure. Unfortunately, a lot of the
17 swimming pools and swimming infrastructure we
18 have throughout the state have grown very old,
19 have been around for many, many decades, are not
20 quite safe, not up to par, maybe the filtration
21 systems are not what they should be.
22 And I think a lot of localities,
23 municipalities and nonprofits see an opportunity
24 to do this. And we think it should be a priority
25 for the State of New York.
5887
1 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
2 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
3 continue to yield.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
5 sponsor yield?
6 SENATOR SERRANO: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
10 Thank you, Senator, for that explanation.
11 My question is really focused now on
12 what did we issue in last year's budget versus
13 what we are allocating for this year's budget.
14 SENATOR SERRANO: Through you,
15 Madam President. Last year we allocated
16 90 million for NY SWIMS and 67.5 million for
17 NY PLAYS.
18 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
19 Thank you.
20 Madam President, I'd like to now ask
21 a few questions on the V-FIRE grants.
22 SENATOR GIANARIS: Still
23 Senator Serrano. No, not Senator Serrano. One
24 moment, please.
25 (Pause.)
5888
1 SENATOR GIANARIS: If I could just
2 inquire, is that the same issue we talked about
3 earlier today, about the tax credit for the
4 volunteer --
5 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
6 It's listed under Public Protection, V-FIRE.
7 SENATOR GIANARIS: I think that's
8 Senator Martinez.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
15 Thank you, Madam President.
16 Could you tell me how much money is
17 allocated for the V-FIRE grants in this year's
18 budget?
19 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Through you,
20 Madam President, $20 million.
21 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
22 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
23 continue to yield?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
25 sponsor yield?
5889
1 SENATOR MARTINEZ: I do.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: How
5 was that amount determined?
6 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Through you,
7 Madam President, thank you for asking this
8 question once again. Prior to our one-house, the
9 Executive had not included anything for V-FIRE.
10 This was actually an addition that our conference
11 put in.
12 And this funding goes specifically
13 for volunteer departments only. And the money is
14 to be used for fire construction, renovations,
15 purchases for critical infrastructure, fire
16 service equipment, upgrades to improve response
17 capabilities.
18 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
19 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
20 continue to yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR MARTINEZ: I do.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
25 sponsor yields.
5890
1 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: How
2 was the amount of $20 million arrived at?
3 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Through you,
4 Madam President, it was negotiated between the
5 Executive and the two chambers.
6 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
7 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
8 continue to yield.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR MARTINEZ: I do.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
15 What was the amount of the grants granted through
16 this program last year?
17 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Through you,
18 Madam President, 25 million.
19 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
20 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
21 continue to yield.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
23 sponsor yield?
24 SENATOR MARTINEZ: I do.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
5891
1 sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: How
3 many fire departments applied for grants last
4 year and were not able to participate in the
5 program because of lack of funding?
6 (Pause.)
7 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Through you,
8 Madam President, I'm just getting the
9 information.
10 (Pause.)
11 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Through you,
12 Madam President. Last round, 88 fire departments
13 were funded. We do not know how many did not get
14 awarded. And that was out of 416 applications.
15 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: I'm
16 sorry, could you repeat that?
17 SENATOR MARTINEZ: So through you,
18 Madam President, there were 416 applications last
19 year. Eighty-eight departments received funding.
20 We do not have the information of
21 how many were not awarded funding.
22 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
23 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
24 continue to yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
5892
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR MARTINEZ: I do.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK: So
6 88 departments applied and received, and there
7 was 400-plus that applied and did not get
8 funding, is that correct?
9 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Through you,
10 Madam President, that is correct.
11 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
12 Through you, Madam President, will the sponsor
13 continue to yield?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
15 sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR MARTINEZ: I do.
17 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
18 Would it surprise you to know that not one
19 Long Island fire department received a grant
20 through this program?
21 (Pause.)
22 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Through you,
23 Madam President. As a fellow Long Islander, it
24 does disappoint me that our departments have not
25 been funded through this grant.
5893
1 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
2 Thank you. Madam President, on the bill.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
4 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick on the bill.
5 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
6 Thank you, Senator Martinez.
7 Yes, it is really disturbing as a
8 Long Island Senator to know that not one fire
9 department on Long Island got any money. We had
10 $20 million this year; $25 million was given out
11 last year. We decreased it by $5 million even
12 though we had over 400 departments that applied
13 and did not get money.
14 And what I keep hearing is that
15 budgets are about priorities. I have no doubt
16 that NY SWIMS is a wonderful program, but why are
17 we allocating an equal amount to swimming and an
18 equal amount to fire protection? That, to me, is
19 troubling.
20 We could not pay for fire protection
21 throughout our state if we had to do it through
22 this house. The least we can do is support our
23 volunteer firemen and -women and give them the
24 money to fund their departments.
25 I was a former fire commissioner in
5894
1 the Village of Malverne, my hometown, and I can
2 tell you that we have equipment that is beyond
3 the useful life -- that is, from the eighties --
4 that my fire department continues to maintain and
5 refurbish, to the extent that they can, to make
6 sure that they can get out and fight our fires.
7 It is extremely troubling to me that
8 we had a demand, we had known applications of
9 400 departments that did not get money, yet we
10 failed to put it in this budget. And I really
11 think that someone's not thinking about the fact
12 that our fire protection is so important.
13 My colleague also spoke about a
14 billion dollars to Sustainable Futures. We've
15 heard about the fact that NYSERDA has $2 billion
16 in reserves. Why aren't we using that money
17 instead of adding to this budget?
18 We keep saying that we want to make
19 New York more affordable, that we need to think
20 about how we're spending our money. These are
21 just a couple of small issues that I picked up in
22 the few hours since we got this bill. Because we
23 didn't get this ahead of time.
24 I just -- I'm very troubled by the
25 priorities of some of the money that we're
5895
1 spending.
2 Thank you, Madam President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Are
4 there any other Senators wishing to be heard?
5 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
6 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
7 Read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
14 Griffo to explain his vote.
15 SENATOR GRIFFO: Thank you,
16 Madam President.
17 The Consolidated Local Street and
18 Highway Improvement Program is very important to
19 regions across upstate New York. We're seeing
20 only a $50 million increase in CHIPS funding.
21 The Extreme Weather fund was
22 unchanged, despite very severe weather that we've
23 all been experiencing, particularly over the last
24 two winters, and that's demonstrated by the fact
25 that session was canceled a couple of times this
5896
1 year at the Capitol because of the extreme
2 weather.
3 In a previous bill, we have
4 62 incorporated cities, large and small. We saw
5 $882 million being distributed to eight cities to
6 bail out a budget crisis without real structure
7 for accountability, to address the real
8 structural problems that they're facing as
9 municipalities, to address and hold them
10 accountable for the future.
11 Yet the commitment to this vital and
12 important transportation infrastructure receives
13 very anemic support.
14 Madam President, I'll be voting in
15 the negative.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
17 Griffo to be recorded in the negative.
18 Senator Mayer to explain her vote.
19 SENATOR MAYER: Thank you,
20 Madam President.
21 I rise to explain my vote, my vote
22 of aye, and my support for a significant and
23 robust investment in affordable housing and in
24 good-paying jobs for our union workers.
25 You know, there was a time, I remind
5897
1 my colleagues, when both Democrats and
2 Republicans, particularly in Washington,
3 understood that investment in affordable housing
4 and creation of good-paying jobs were the highest
5 priorities on a bipartisan basis. In fact,
6 thousands of units of affordable housing have
7 been built in New York and across the country
8 with the investment of federal money and federal
9 tax credits.
10 Now, with the lack of that
11 investment, the state has had to jump in. And in
12 Westchester County, where the median price of a
13 new home is over $1 million, we are not going to
14 be able to have a working class, a middle class
15 survive in our county without the creation of
16 affordable units and the sustaining of
17 good-paying union jobs that are middle-class
18 jobs.
19 This kind of investment is the kind
20 of leadership that we need. I commend the
21 Governor and particularly our Majority Leader,
22 who fought for a combination of affordable
23 housing and good-paying jobs to transform a
24 suburban community into a more affordable place
25 that people can stay.
5898
1 My colleagues rail against the cost
2 of living and affordability. Here, when we are
3 actually doing something about it, is a time when
4 we should be voting yes.
5 I vote yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
7 Mayer to be recorded in the affirmative.
8 Senator Martinez to explain her
9 vote.
10 SENATOR MARTINEZ: Madam President,
11 thank you.
12 As chair of Local Government and
13 actually recipient of the Golden Trumpet Award by
14 FASNY, I do want to clear up some things here in
15 this chamber, because we have done a lot for our
16 fire departments.
17 And I want to begin first with the
18 20 million that we did in this budget that we
19 were just speaking about. But also, earlier in
20 the week, we also approved $1.5 million to assist
21 with statewide interoperable communication for
22 first responders, which actually is a direct
23 grant that our municipalities can give to our
24 fire departments, where they do not have to
25 return that money.
5899
1 We also have been able to invest
2 $2 million in the Volunteer Fire Recruitment and
3 Retention. We know the difficulty that our
4 departments are having, so we have funded that;
5 6.5 million for volunteer fire department
6 stipends; $3.3 million for fire investigations.
7 And last year, 31 volunteer fire departments
8 received $576,000.
9 We will continue, obviously, to work
10 hard for our first responders, for our fire
11 departments. And I think it's very important
12 that we as Senators of all of our districts and
13 our fire departments, that we urge our
14 departments to apply for these funds. And that
15 we should be doing everything that we can so they
16 can get these funds, because we are -- we have an
17 issue of retention and recruitment, and whatever
18 we can do, we must do.
19 And hopefully, legislation-wise --
20 and I know one of our Senators and colleagues on
21 the other side mentioned the income tax credit
22 for our volunteers and first responders. We're
23 hoping to pass that this year.
24 We've always put it in our
25 one-house. It has been taken out. And I'm
5900
1 hopeful that this year we are able to bring that
2 home so the Governor can sign that, to really
3 help with recruitment and retention.
4 Madam President, we very well know
5 that our first responders are the backbones of
6 our communities to keep us safe, and we will
7 continue providing the tools and the resources
8 they need.
9 And I vote in the affirmative.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
11 Martinez to be recorded in the affirmative.
12 Senator Bailey to explain his vote.
13 SENATOR BAILEY: Thank you,
14 Madam President. I thank my colleagues for the
15 debate.
16 And I thank Senator Serrano for
17 speaking about NY SWIMS. Infrastructure and
18 pools are critically important for people to
19 learn water safety. I didn't learn until I was
20 well over 40 how to swim. And so this is really
21 important to make sure that generations of people
22 learn how to swim, and we're putting these pools
23 in underserved areas.
24 As far as the conversation about the
25 parity and the conversations, I'd like to make
5901
1 sure we point out there were a couple of
2 $6 million capital projects. One was the Hip Hop
3 Museum, as was mentioned. Another was the
4 Hamilton Hills Arts Center, which is in the
5 district of a colleague across the aisle.
6 We're trying to make sure that the
7 arts and culture develop. And it's -- it's
8 bigger than hip-hop, right? Rap is what you do;
9 hip-hop is what you live.
10 And hip-hop is a culture, it's a
11 USA -- American-born, New York-born, home-grown
12 thing which was born on August 11, 1973, in one
13 of the most underserved areas in the world. Yes,
14 Madam President, the Boogie-Down Bronx, the
15 birthplace of hip-hop, undisputed.
16 And so when we invest in hip-hop,
17 when we invest in hip-hop, we invest in museums,
18 we invest in tourism, we invest in capital, we
19 invest in human capital, most importantly, so
20 that people find the Bronx as a destination.
21 I proudly vote aye on this piece of
22 legislation -- bless you, Madam President.
23 Because the Bronx does need to be blessed, I vote
24 aye.
25 (Laughter.)
5902
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
2 Bailey to be recorded in the affirmative.
3 Senator Ryan to explain his vote.
4 SENATOR RYAN: Thank you,
5 Madam President. I rise to vote in the
6 affirmative.
7 I want to just quickly highlight two
8 really, really impactful and big economic
9 development projects.
10 One is our funding that we've worked
11 on in Onondaga County with our regional market
12 that will transform that regional market and
13 allow -- it will be an economic development
14 project, but it's also going to help our
15 Central New York economy, our farmers, the
16 agriculture industry. It will also help feed
17 children and work with our schools.
18 So I want to say, secondly, funding
19 for a -- which I'll just say is a really, really
20 big sewer pipe. It's not exactly sexy, but it's
21 going to really help a part of my county --
22 Oswego County, more specifically. Central
23 New York is about to transform itself in anywhere
24 of ten, twenty, thirty, 40,000 new residents
25 because of a very, very big infrastructure
5903
1 project.
2 And I'm going to see to it, in
3 working with our partners in the Oswego County
4 Industrial Development Authority, a bipartisan
5 working group with our county legislators, our
6 town supervisors, the City of Fulton -- which
7 also is a DEC project -- and so ESD, so we can
8 make sure that they have the commercial
9 development but, more so, the housing.
10 We talk about housing and housing
11 and housing, but we're going to do it and we're
12 going to deliver for Oswego County. I'm proud of
13 that. I'm going to vote in the affirmative.
14 Thank you.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
16 Ryan to be recorded in the affirmative.
17 Senator Hinchey to explain her vote.
18 SENATOR HINCHEY: Thank you,
19 Madam President.
20 The Hudson Valley is on the
21 frontlines of a housing crisis. And I rise with
22 gratitude for funding in this budget for a
23 Green Social Housing pilot project that will be
24 in my district, bringing new affordable homes
25 online in our district.
5904
1 This is incredibly exciting, and we
2 are thrilled. And we thank the leader for her
3 leadership on that.
4 My colleague left us with words to
5 invest in our dairy farmers and our dairy plants.
6 Well, he'll be glad to know that we're actually
7 increasing the funding for dairy modernization
8 grants by $5 million, for a total of $50 million.
9 We know that the dairy industry is actually
10 growing in New York, with Chobani and Fair Life
11 and so many more, and that's why we're putting in
12 more capital money to make sure that they can get
13 the resources that they need.
14 This Majority has actually led the
15 charge in investing in our agricultural
16 communities, with the best budget in the state's
17 history multiple years in a row for our farmers.
18 And it's also this Majority that
19 created the V-FIRE program because we saw the
20 need for our volunteer fire departments, who have
21 been left to die on the vine needing capital
22 improvements for decades. And I'm proud to say
23 that we fought in this budget and are getting
24 another $20 million for more fire departments to
25 be able to apply for.
5905
1 And so I encourage my colleagues to
2 get their departments to apply. I know that
3 DHSES is very committed to getting that money out
4 the door quickly.
5 So I rise to vote aye on this bill
6 and thank my colleagues for doing the same.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
8 Hinchey to be recorded in the affirmative.
9 Senator Martins to explain his vote.
10 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
11 Madam President.
12 You know, once upon a time when we
13 talked about investment -- investment in
14 affordable housing, investment in projects in
15 communities -- it meant investment in
16 infrastructure. It meant that the state would
17 come in, as was just mentioned, and build sewers
18 and water and roads and help the local
19 governments build the infrastructure that could
20 serve as the platform for where developers,
21 private developers would come in and put up the
22 housing and the commercial development.
23 And if they needed help, there were
24 the IDAs that would allow them the opportunity to
25 go and ask for local help in the form of payments
5906
1 in lieu of taxes, sales tax relief, mortgage tax
2 relief.
3 The state's portion of that had to
4 do with infrastructure, investing in things that
5 made those other things possible.
6 And here we are, talking about
7 investment as if somehow handing somebody a
8 $175 million check is an investment in something
9 other than giving somebody $175 million for a
10 private entity to walk away.
11 And yes, there's going to be some
12 affordable housing there, Madam President. But
13 for the 30 percent that's going to be affordable,
14 there's 70 percent that's going to be market
15 rate. And I guarantee you, because I know what
16 those rents are like, certainly whether it's in
17 Nassau County or in Westchester County -- or in
18 Brooklyn -- those rents are not going to be
19 affordable.
20 So yet the investments we talk about
21 and the investments that our communities need are
22 those investments that make those other
23 investments property, not handouts.
24 Madam President, I'll be voting no.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
5907
1 Martins to be recorded in the negative.
2 Senator Helming to explain her vote.
3 SENATOR HELMING: Thank you,
4 Madam President.
5 Investment in housing requires an
6 investment in infrastructure. And what's holding
7 back the growth of housing and business in many
8 areas of our state is the all-electric mandate
9 and the lack of electric capacity.
10 Electric mandates are also holding
11 back the expansion of our family dairy farms. I
12 hear from the farmers all the time that there's
13 not enough electric capacity and/or the cost is
14 preventing them from growing.
15 I just wanted to clarify something I
16 heard about the V-FIRE grant program. Just to be
17 clear, we funded it at $25 million last year.
18 We're cutting that down to $20 million this year,
19 even though we weren't able to push out grants to
20 all the departments that needed assistance.
21 But here's what I wanted to clarify.
22 It's the part about the loan program. The
23 cellphone fee that everyone pays who has a
24 cellphone, that's supposed to go into the state
25 interoperable fund to be loaned out to fire
5908
1 departments, EMS, for equipment, apparatus,
2 et cetera. That, in this budget, just so you
3 know, is being swept. And it has been for years
4 now. It's being swept away from the fire
5 departments and into the General Fund. That's
6 wrong.
7 And if you want to support housing,
8 you have to support public safety. And that
9 includes supporting our fire departments. This
10 bill shortchanges them, and I vote no.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
12 Helming to be recorded in the negative.
13 Announce the results.
14 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
15 Calendar 1332, voting in the negative are
16 Senators Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick,
17 Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Lanza, Martins,
18 Mattera, Murray, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads,
19 Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk and Weik.
20 Ayes, 45. Nays, 17.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
22 is passed.
23 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
24 reading of the controversial calendar.
25 SENATOR GIANARIS: Okay, at this
5909
1 time, Madam President, we're going to stand at
2 ease. And we will have a Finance Committee
3 meeting at 10:10.
4 Please call on Senator Lanza for an
5 announcement.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
7 Lanza for an announcement.
8 SENATOR LANZA: Madam President,
9 there will be an immediate meeting of the
10 Republican conference in Room 315.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
12 Senate stands at ease, and the Finance Committee
13 meeting will be called at 10:10 in Room 332.
14 (Whereupon, at 9:41 p.m., the Senate
15 adjourned.)
16 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at
17 10:39 p.m.)
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
19 Senate will return to order.
20 Senator Gianaris.
21 SENATOR GIANARIS: Thank you,
22 Mr. President. I want to just take up some
23 motions while we wait for the Finance Committee
24 to conclude its work.
25 On behalf of Senator Stavisky, I
5910
1 wish to call up Senate Print 607B, recalled from
2 the Assembly, which is now at the desk.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
4 Secretary will read.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 126, Senate Print 607B, by Senator Stavisky, an
7 act to amend the Education Law.
8 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to
9 reconsider the vote by which the bill was passed.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
11 roll on reconsideration.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 62.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
15 is restored to its place on the Third Reading
16 Calendar.
17 Senator Gianaris.
18 SENATOR GIANARIS: I offer the
19 following amendments.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
21 amendments are received.
22 SENATOR GIANARIS: Okay, I also
23 offer the amendments to the following Third
24 Reading Calendar bills:
25 By Senator Gounardes, page 11,
5911
1 Calendar 432, Senate Print 6954A;
2 Senator Kavanagh, page 57,
3 Calendar 1311, Senate Print 10168;
4 Senator Scarcella-Spanton, page 57,
5 Calendar 529, Senate Print 5396;
6 Senator Sepúlveda, page 57,
7 Calendar 770, Senate Print 8401;
8 Senator Kavanagh, page 30,
9 Calendar 1183, Senate Print 8118B;
10 And Senator Gianaris, page 37,
11 Calendar 1046, Senate Print 2438.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
13 amendments are received, and those bills will
14 retain their place on the Third Reading Calendar.
15 Senator Gianaris.
16 SENATOR GIANARIS: Okay, let's just
17 stand at ease while we wait for the
18 Finance Committee to return.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
20 Senate will temporarily stand at ease.
21 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease
22 at 10:40 p.m.)
23 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at
24 10:44 p.m.)
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5912
1 Senate will return to order.
2 Senator Gianaris.
3 SENATOR GIANARIS: There's a report
4 of the Finance Committee at the desk.
5 Let's take that up, please.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7 Secretary will read.
8 THE SECRETARY: Senator
9 Stewart-Cousins, from the Committee on Finance,
10 reports the following bills:
11 Senate Print 9000D, an act making
12 appropriations for the support of government;
13 Senate Print 9001A, an act making
14 appropriations for the support of government.
15 Both bills reported direct to third
16 reading.
17 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
18 the report of the Finance Committee.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: All those
20 in favor of accepting the report of the
21 Finance Committee please signify by saying aye.
22 (Response of "Aye.")
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
24 nay.
25 (Response of "Nay.")
5913
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
2 report of the Finance Committee is accepted.
3 Senator Gianaris.
4 SENATOR GIANARIS: Please take up
5 the supplemental calendar.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
7 a substitution at the desk.
8 The Secretary will read.
9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Krueger
10 moves to discharge, from the Committee on
11 Finance, Assembly Bill Number 10000D and
12 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
13 Number 9000D, Third Reading Calendar 1329.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:
15 Substitution so ordered.
16 The Secretary will read.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 1329, Assembly Bill Number 10000D, an act making
19 appropriations for the support of government.
20 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there a
21 message of necessity at the desk?
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
23 a message of necessity at the desk.
24 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
25 the message of necessity.
5914
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: All those
2 in favor of accepting the message please signify
3 by saying aye.
4 (Response of "Aye.")
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
6 nay.
7 (Response of "Nay.")
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
9 message is accepted, and the bill is before the
10 house.
11 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
13 is laid aside.
14 There is a substitution at the desk.
15 The Secretary will read.
16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Krueger
17 moves to discharge, from the Committee on
18 Finance, Assembly Bill Number 10001A and
19 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
20 Number 9001A, Third Reading Calendar 1330.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:
22 Substitution so ordered.
23 The Secretary will read.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 1330, Assembly Bill Number 10001A, an act making
5915
1 appropriations for the support of government.
2 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there a
3 message of necessity at the desk?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
5 a message of necessity at the desk.
6 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
7 the message of necessity.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: All those
9 in favor of accepting the message please signify
10 by saying aye.
11 (Response of "Aye.")
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Opposed,
13 nay.
14 (Response of "Nay.")
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
16 message is accepted, and the bill is before the
17 house.
18 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
20 is laid aside.
21 Senator Gianaris.
22 SENATOR GIANARIS: Let's go to the
23 controversial calendar.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 Secretary will ring the bell.
5916
1 The Secretary will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 1329, Assembly Bill Number 10000D, an act making
4 appropriations for the support of government.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
6 Murray, why do you rise?
7 SENATOR MURRAY: I rise,
8 Mr. President, because I had Thursday in the
9 pool, so buckle up. I've got questions.
10 (Laughter.)
11 SENATOR MURRAY: I'm just kidding.
12 (Laughter.)
13 SENATOR MURRAY: Mr. President,
14 would -- I have a few questions, so starting with
15 the Department of Education, library information.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
17 Gianaris.
18 SENATOR GIANARIS: Libraries would
19 be Senator Bynoe.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
21 Bynoe, do you yield?
22 SENATOR BYNOE: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
24 Senator yields.
25 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
5917
1 Through you, Mr. President.
2 So I see that we have $3 million for
3 NOVELny, which is great. But I don't see any
4 change to -- or funding for Library Materials
5 Aid. Was there any change to funding for that?
6 SENATOR BYNOE: Through you,
7 Mr. President. No, there was no increase in
8 Library Material Aid.
9 SENATOR MURRAY: Okay, thank you.
10 Mr. President, I now would like to
11 ask some questions regarding -- thank you,
12 Senator Bynoe -- questions regarding OTDA, and in
13 particular, SNAP.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
15 Persaud, Roxie's Rules, do you yield?
16 SENATOR PERSAUD: Yes, I do.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Roxie --
18 Senator Persaud yields.
19 (Laughter.)
20 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you,
21 Mr. President. Through you.
22 So I see that we have 70 million for
23 contractual services under the SNAP quality
24 control. What is that $70 million for? What is
25 that covering?
5918
1 (Pause.)
2 SENATOR PERSAUD: Through you,
3 Mr. President. As you know, Senator, the -- the
4 assumption is that our error rates are high. And
5 so for us to get the rates down, they've
6 allocated the $70 million to work with local
7 social service districts to assist them in
8 getting those rates down.
9 That does not mean that there's
10 fraud. It just means that we need to tighten up
11 some of the systems that we have in place.
12 And so that money will help the
13 local social service districts to alleviate the
14 money that -- if the federal government tries to
15 penalize us.
16 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
17 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
18 yield.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
20 sponsor yield?
21 SENATOR PERSAUD: Yes, I do.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
25 Mr. President.
5919
1 So how will that be allocated? Will
2 it be allocated based on the levels locally,
3 since we're talking about going through the local
4 I guess counties? Will it be allocated based on
5 their percentage of error rate? Or how will that
6 be done?
7 SENATOR PERSAUD: Through you,
8 Mr. President. OTDA will work with the local
9 social service districts to allocate based on the
10 needs of that district.
11 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
12 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to
13 yield?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
15 sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR PERSAUD: Yes, I do.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
20 Through you, Mr. President.
21 And do we think that this is enough
22 to bring the error rate down? Our error rate
23 right now is over 14 percent. The accepted error
24 rate or the federal benchmark is 6 percent. If
25 we're still over I think 13.36, we're going to
5920
1 hit the maximum penalty.
2 So is this going to be enough? Will
3 it be enough, and will there be time enough, in
4 your opinion, for us to bring that error rate
5 down and avoid the maximum penalties?
6 SENATOR PERSAUD: Through you,
7 Mr. President. I think it will, based on the
8 conversations we've had with OTDA. They have
9 started already working with the local social
10 service districts, and we anticipate not having
11 to pay the federal government. So I think
12 that's -- the money that's been allocated is
13 enough.
14 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
15 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
16 yield?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
18 sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR PERSAUD: Yes, I will.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
23 And do we know what the reason for
24 the high error rate is in the first place? I
25 know there's a difference between error rate and
5921
1 fraud, and we can agree or disagree on how much
2 fraud there is. But just staying on the error
3 rate issue, is there a reason why ours is so
4 high?
5 SENATOR PERSAUD: Through you,
6 Mr. President, there are various reasons why.
7 You're right, it's not -- it does
8 not indicate fraud. It indicates that there were
9 instances where people had to self-certify and
10 they were approved, and then they had to change
11 information. And so those are part of the issues
12 that account for the high error rate.
13 But it's by no means that someone
14 was committing fraud.
15 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
16 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
17 yield?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
19 sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR PERSAUD: Yes, I will.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
24 Through you, Mr. President.
25 And if we don't make it, what is the
5922
1 maximum penalty? What will we -- what will we
2 face?
3 (Pause.)
4 SENATOR PERSAUD: So through you,
5 Mr. President, the $70 million is up to what the
6 penalty can be. And we're trying to not have to
7 pay that penalty, so that's why they've started
8 working with the social service districts to help
9 them to correct the issues that they've
10 encountered.
11 SENATOR MURRAY: Mr. President,
12 would the sponsor continue to yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
14 sponsor yield?
15 SENATOR PERSAUD: Yes, I will.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
19 Through you, Mr. President.
20 And will any of that -- now
21 switching to the fraud issue, will any of that
22 70 million go towards identifying and eliminating
23 fraud?
24 SENATOR PERSAUD: Through you,
25 Mr. President. If when they're doing the
5923
1 cleanup, as I would say, if they encounter issues
2 where there is fraud, then yes, they will take
3 care of that.
4 But I doubt whether there's a high
5 rate of fraud in the system.
6 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
7 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
8 yield?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR PERSAUD: Yes, I will.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
15 And now switching gears over -- I
16 see we're allocating 16.8 million for contractual
17 services under the Employment and Income Support
18 Program to support the issue that we've been
19 discussing over and over again, and that is
20 switching to the chip technology with the EBT
21 cards.
22 Now, what contractual services are
23 being covered by the 16.8 million?
24 SENATOR PERSAUD: Through you,
25 Mr. President, that's with the company that OTDA
5924
1 will be working with to prepare the cards for us.
2 SENATOR MURRAY: Mr. President,
3 would the sponsor continue to yield.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
5 sponsor yield?
6 SENATOR PERSAUD: Yes, I will.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
10 Through you, Mr. President.
11 Have we identified which vendor
12 we're using to do this?
13 (Pause.)
14 SENATOR PERSAUD: I do not --
15 through you, Mr. President, we do not have that
16 final information, as I had a conversation with
17 OTDA and they will be giving us an update that I
18 will be sharing with all of the members of the
19 Social Services Committee also.
20 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
21 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
22 yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
24 sponsor yield?
25 SENATOR PERSAUD: Yes, I will.
5925
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
2 sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR MURRAY: Is this enough?
4 Is this 16.8 million, is this enough to get the
5 job done, basically, to make the switch?
6 I had heard an estimate higher to
7 23 million. But would that -- would the
8 16.8 come from us and then we'd put the rest of
9 it on local? Or how would that work? Is this
10 enough to get the job done, I guess is the
11 question.
12 SENATOR PERSAUD: Through you,
13 Mr. President. There are some costs that will be
14 turned over to the local, and then we're also
15 looking to get some funding from the federal
16 government.
17 SENATOR MURRAY: Mr. President,
18 would the sponsor continue to yield.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
20 sponsor yield?
21 SENATOR PERSAUD: Yes, I will.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
25 And I understand -- you mentioned
5926
1 the federal government. I understand it is a
2 fifty-fifty split. So I would imagine the 16.8
3 would more than cover that, is that correct?
4 SENATOR PERSAUD: Through you,
5 Mr. President, yes.
6 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
7 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
8 yield.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR PERSAUD: Yes, I do.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
15 Through you, Mr. President.
16 And finally, during the budget
17 hearings the commissioner had given us a time
18 frame of 12 to 18 months. Obviously that was a
19 couple of months ago. This is the allocation for
20 this fiscal year. Do you imagine this is going
21 to roll into next fiscal year, or do you think we
22 can get this done in this fiscal year with this
23 amount?
24 SENATOR PERSAUD: Through you,
25 Mr. President. The estimated time for the
5927
1 implementation is 18 months, and so we're on time
2 for that.
3 SENATOR MURRAY: Okay.
4 Mr. President, thank you, and Senator Persaud.
5 Mr. President, I'd like to switch
6 now and ask a couple of questions regarding the
7 Workers' Compensation Board.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Workers'
9 compensation, Senator Gianaris.
10 SENATOR GIANARIS: That will be
11 Senator Ramos.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
13 Ramos, do you yield?
14 SENATOR RAMOS: If we absolutely
15 must.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR MURRAY: We absolutely
19 must, Mr. President. So thank you,
20 Senator Ramos.
21 So I see that we've allocated
22 $7 million for the New York district attorneys
23 for the purpose of establishing a grant program
24 to go after workers' comp fraud, is that correct?
25 SENATOR RAMOS: That's correct.
5928
1 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
2 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
3 yield.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
5 sponsor yield?
6 SENATOR RAMOS: I will.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
10 Mr. President.
11 And why is that necessary?
12 SENATOR RAMOS: Well, it's my
13 understanding from Chair Foster of the Workers'
14 Compensation Board herself, as we learned last
15 week during the Labor Committee meeting, that we
16 saw all of 14 cases of fraud over the course of
17 2025.
18 So presumably this allocation of
19 funding would go to district attorneys aiding in
20 catching and prosecuting such fraudsters.
21 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
22 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to
23 yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
25 sponsor yield?
5929
1 SENATOR RAMOS: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
5 Through you, Mr. President.
6 Does this exist right now? Does
7 this program exist right now?
8 SENATOR RAMOS: No. It's brand
9 spanking new, Mr. President.
10 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
11 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
12 yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
14 sponsor yield?
15 SENATOR RAMOS: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
19 Through you, Mr. President.
20 So you said there were 14 cases
21 identified, yet we don't even have a -- we don't
22 even have a program dedicated to it yet. So I
23 would imagine if we put that in place, there's a
24 good chance we're going to find more. Would that
25 make sense?
5930
1 SENATOR RAMOS: Through you,
2 Mr. President, presumably so.
3 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
4 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
5 yield?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
7 sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR RAMOS: Sí.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
12 Through you, Mr. President.
13 So the Governor actually allocated
14 17 million to put together this program, but we
15 shorted that by 10. Could you explain why we cut
16 it down to only seven?
17 SENATOR RAMOS: Well, I cannot
18 speak to how the negotiations exactly went down,
19 Mr. President. But I assume that because of the
20 two aforementioned points -- it is a brand
21 spanking new program, and only 14 cases were seen
22 in the past calendar year.
23 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you,
24 Mr. President. On the bill.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
5931
1 Murray on the bill.
2 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you very
3 much. Thank you, Senator Ramos.
4 So I do find it interesting, we've
5 had conversations all through this long day and
6 night about fraud, and everyone agreeing on both
7 sides that we don't want it, we want to go after
8 it, and yet here we have a case where apparently,
9 according to the Senator, 14 cases were
10 identified without us even having this system in
11 place.
12 So again, I can imagine once this is
13 in place, especially if it's going through the
14 DA's office, and they obviously do
15 investigations, that we're going to find quite a
16 bit more. And yet this body decided to cut that
17 funding from 17 million down to only 7 million.
18 I'm just -- I think that's a shame
19 that we're cutting ourselves short here, because
20 that money that we would uncover from cases of
21 fraud, we would get that money back and that's
22 money that we wouldn't be wasting.
23 As for the library aid and the
24 materials aid there, it's another disappointing
25 year. Year after year after year, the libraries
5932
1 come and they ask for more. We've been stuck at
2 6.25 per student for library aid material
3 reimbursements, and we've -- we're stuck for
4 another year.
5 That is an absolute shame, in a
6 budget of 268 billion, that we cannot find more
7 to allocate more.
8 And then finally, on the SNAP
9 benefit program, I'm glad that we're allocating
10 this money. I do think we have to go after it.
11 I do hope that we will take a good hard look --
12 while we're investigating and looking and trying
13 to lower the error rates, I hope we're going to
14 take a real good hard look at the fraud issue as
15 well. Although they are separate, I have no
16 doubt that there is some fraud still going on.
17 So I hope we will take a good hard
18 look at that, and then I also hope that we get
19 this chip technology done with the EBT cards.
20 Because again, we've mentioned this, these are
21 needy families. They need the food. That money
22 is being stolen off of that card. We've lost
23 $40 million to fraud from people skimming off of
24 these cards, literally taking food off of
25 people's table. That's happened, $40 million,
5933
1 just since 2022.
2 So this needs to get done. It needs
3 to get done now. I hope we will be very quick in
4 getting this accomplished.
5 Thank you, Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
7 Walczyk, why do you rise?
8 SENATOR WALCZYK: Mr. President, I
9 wonder if someone would yield for a question on
10 the Independent Redistricting Commission.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
12 Gianaris.
13 SENATOR GIANARIS: I think that's
14 the bill that we haven't taken up yet,
15 Senator Walczyk.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: Oh, we're not on
17 Leg and Judi yet.
18 SENATOR GIANARIS: No.
19 SENATOR WALCZYK: I apologize.
20 SENATOR GIANARIS: We'll be back in
21 a moment on that one.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: I'll ask that one
23 on the next bill.
24 Through you, Mr. President, looking
25 for someone to chat about National Guards in
5934
1 prison.
2 SENATOR GIANARIS: Senator Salazar
3 will take that on.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
5 Salazar, do you yield?
6 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
10 Mr. President. Thank you.
11 So there's $535 million to keep the
12 National Guard staffing our correctional
13 facilities in New York. How long are we -- and
14 that's the same appropriation that we gave last
15 year. How long are we going to be staffing our
16 prisons with National Guard members?
17 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
18 Mr. President.
19 While this budget bill does not
20 specify how long we can expect the National Guard
21 to be deployed to support corrections staff in
22 correctional facilities, this is essentially the
23 result of a memorandum of agreement between DOCCS
24 and NYSCOPBA that was signed at the conclusion
25 of, and in order to end, the illegal and
5935
1 unauthorized strike that happened last year.
2 And actually in that MOA the
3 National Guard is mentioned as being necessary to
4 support staff as they return to work.
5 Unfortunately, actually after that MOA was
6 signed -- which was conditioned on 85 percent of
7 striking officers returning to work -- 85 percent
8 of officers did not return to work. It was more
9 like 75 percent of them who returned.
10 However, DOCCS and the state have
11 nonetheless upheld their side of the agreement,
12 and that includes supporting corrections staff
13 with National Guard.
14 It also says that it would remain
15 under the Governor's discretion, and that they
16 would remain in place for the purpose of
17 preventing corrections employees from being
18 mandated to work 24-hour overtime shifts.
19 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
20 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
21 yield?
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
23 sponsor yield?
24 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
5936
1 sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR WALCZYK: The
3 National Guard members that are in our
4 correctional facilities now, are they still on
5 state orders where they don't get any retirement
6 credit federally for their service on those
7 orders?
8 (Pause.)
9 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
10 Mr. President. I'm not certain about that
11 because it is not addressed in this budget bill.
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
13 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
14 yield?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
19 Senator yields.
20 SENATOR WALCZYK: Yeah, this budget
21 bill provides $535 million to keep National Guard
22 members staffing our prisons. Are they on
23 Title 10 or are they on Title 32 orders?
24 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
25 Mr. President. I'm not certain, as that is not
5937
1 specified in this bill.
2 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
3 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
4 yield?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
6 sponsor yield?
7 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR WALCZYK: I know I asked
11 before when we can expect to get out from under
12 this problem. Have we seen an increase in
13 recruitment? Are we now recruiting more
14 corrections officers than we're retiring?
15 When do we anticipate that this
16 allocation will drop and we'll be actually having
17 corrections officers in the State of New York
18 manning our correctional facilities rather than
19 leaning on our weekend warriors in the National
20 Guard?
21 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
22 Mr. President. My understanding from
23 conversations with the DOCCS commissioner and
24 testimony in public hearings from DOCCS is that
25 we've seen some results from investment in
5938
1 efforts to recruit more correction officers.
2 It is my hope and belief that we
3 will see increased numbers of correction officers
4 joining DOCCS. But I also think that in the
5 meantime, it is essential for the operation of
6 our correctional facilities that the
7 National Guard, who are staffing the facilities
8 and there to support officers, remain there. And
9 that even can, in a way, support recruitment
10 efforts.
11 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
12 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
13 yield?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
15 sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR WALCZYK: Since this is
20 money used to staff our correctional facilities,
21 wouldn't we be better off using a portion of this
22 $535 million to recruit back some of the
23 corrections officers that were let go, fired,
24 terminated -- but are already qualified to do
25 that job -- and invite them back to work for the
5939
1 State of New York again?
2 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
3 Mr. President. I heard part of Senator Walczyk's
4 question, but -- I'm sorry, could you just repeat
5 that question?
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
7 Walczyk, if you don't mind.
8 SENATOR WALCZYK: Sure.
9 Wouldn't we be better off if we used
10 some of this $535 million that's going to
11 continue to be a problem and instead recruit it
12 from the force that was terminated, let go,
13 released, but is qualified already as a
14 correctional officer, many of them still living
15 in New York, some still may be interested in
16 working for the Department of Corrections
17 again -- wouldn't we be better off using some of
18 this funding, instead of for the National Guard
19 as a stopgap measure, in recruiting some of those
20 corrections officers back to the state?
21 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
22 Mr. President, I would not agree with that for a
23 number of reasons.
24 I do think that there are
25 New Yorkers who would be qualified to serve as
5940
1 correctional officers who have not violated the
2 law, have not violated the Taylor Law, for
3 example, per the Taylor Law and the
4 Public Officers Law.
5 I also wouldn't support that
6 statement because as a public servant myself, I
7 should not be complicit in encouraging
8 public-sector workers to strike or endorsing that
9 behavior by suggesting that they should be able
10 to serve as correction officers after walking off
11 the job. Not to mention that many of them
12 decided to resign during the strike or at the end
13 of the strike.
14 So I think that there are many
15 people who would be qualified to served as
16 correction officers who would be better
17 candidates.
18 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
19 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
20 yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
25 sponsor yields.
5941
1 SENATOR WALCZYK: I disagree on the
2 idea that this was a violation of the Taylor Law.
3 And my understanding is that if
4 there's a dangerous workplace, that that's not
5 necessarily a violation. But that's probably not
6 for you and I to decide on the floor today. You
7 have your judgment; I'll withhold mine.
8 How many National Guard members will
9 $535 million pay for to keep in our correctional
10 facilities in New York?
11 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
12 Mr. President, approximately 3,000 National Guard
13 members.
14 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
15 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
16 yield?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
18 sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: So that number
23 hasn't really dropped too much in the last
24 calendar year. A little bit.
25 How much do you anticipate it will
5942
1 be by the next time we're taking up a budget, in
2 10 months?
3 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
4 Mr. President, that will depend on the needs of
5 the correctional facilities, which the
6 commissioner of DOCCS is assessing on a regular
7 basis.
8 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you,
9 Mr. President. And if the sponsor would --
10 actually, I'm looking to someone to talk about
11 the State Liquor Authority and the Office of
12 Cannabis Management.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
14 Gianaris.
15 SENATOR GIANARIS: Senator Skoufis
16 will be taking those questions, Senator Walczyk.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
18 Skoufis, do you yield?
19 SENATOR SKOUFIS: I do.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
21 Senator yields.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you.
23 Through you, Mr. President.
24 I see that we're funding the
25 State Liquor Authority at $21.8 million. Do we
5943
1 have an idea what the annual revenue is for
2 alcohol sales in the State of New York?
3 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
4 Mr. President, not offhand. We can try and find
5 that answer for you.
6 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
7 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
8 yield?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR WALCZYK: And with the
15 State Liquor Authority at $21.8 million, I see
16 that we're also increasing spending for the
17 Office of Cannabis Management all the way up to
18 $79.8 million.
19 Do you have any sense of the revenue
20 that cannabis is bringing into the State of
21 New York?
22 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
23 Mr. President, I'm told that adult-use
24 recreational cannabis brings in about
25 100 million.
5944
1 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
2 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
3 yield?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
5 sponsor yield?
6 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: Why does it cost
10 four times more to run the Office of Cannabis
11 Management -- which brings in so much less --
12 than it does to run the State Liquor Authority?
13 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
14 Mr. President, I'm sure some of that is
15 attributable to the fact that adult-use
16 recreational cannabis is still relatively new.
17 We needed to stand up a program. It's been
18 widely reported that there have been very
19 significant issues with the rolling out of
20 licenses and many other challenges at OCM and
21 with the program itself.
22 And so no doubt the additional
23 expenditure has to do with the newness of the
24 program.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
5945
1 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
2 yield?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
4 sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR WALCZYK: "New" maybe in
9 the scheme of government, but the Office of
10 Cannabis Management was -- it's been like
11 seven years, hasn't it?
12 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
13 Mr. President. If not seven years, somewhere in
14 that ballpark -- six, seven years. Certainly,
15 though, as my colleague is aware, there was a --
16 six-seven.
17 (Laughter.)
18 SENATOR SKOUFIS: As my colleague
19 is aware, it took significant time -- I and
20 I think many here would argue too much time --
21 for the program to be stood up in such a way that
22 we were actually beginning to effectuate licenses
23 throughout the state and open up the doors of
24 these dispensaries and create the marketplace
25 that now exists.
5946
1 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
2 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
3 yield?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Will the
5 sponsor yield?
6 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: Well, the Office
10 of Cannabis Management is running a program that
11 costs four times what it takes to run the
12 State Liquor Authority, and this has been running
13 for seven years. And cannabis produces less than
14 half of what alcohol sales do -- maybe a third --
15 in the State of New York.
16 Do we anticipate that after this
17 additional funding this year, they'll be able to
18 normalize or be even smaller, since their revenue
19 is smaller than the State Liquor Authority in the
20 outyears?
21 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Through you,
22 Mr. President. I don't want to speculate as to
23 what future budgets may produce on this budget
24 line. It's one of many reasons I suppose we
25 should all look forward to next year's budget
5947
1 negotiations.
2 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you,
3 Mr. President.
4 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Thank you.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
6 you, Senator Walczyk.
7 Are there any other Senators wishing
8 to be heard?
9 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
10 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
11 Read the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
18 Murray to explain his vote.
19 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you,
20 Mr. President.
21 I just have to say during that
22 questioning, I'm amazed. So the same group that
23 wants to give a second chance -- so
24 Senator Walczyk asked the question wouldn't it be
25 better to maybe hire back those corrections
5948
1 officers who are experienced, who are ready, some
2 ready, willing and able to come back to work --
3 wouldn't it be better to maybe spend that money
4 to bring them back? And the answer was no,
5 because they violated the Taylor Law.
6 Meanwhile, we passed elder parole,
7 fair and timely parole, Earned Time Act,
8 Second Look Act, Less is More. Today we did a
9 resolution, the Second Chance Month. We want to
10 give killers, rapists, murderers, drug dealers,
11 give them a second chance, give them a shot at
12 getting out early.
13 But heaven forbid we let corrections
14 officers return to work because -- (gasping) --
15 they violated the Taylor Law.
16 I'll be voting no, Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
18 Murray to be recorded in the negative.
19 Senator Stec to explain his vote.
20 SENATOR STEC: Thank you,
21 Mr. President.
22 Last week I asked questions about
23 corrections on the Public Protection budget bill.
24 There were no substantive changes that I was
25 interested in seeing. Now we've seen all the
5949
1 bills of the budget, we've seen them all, we're
2 finishing debate right now -- $535 million, we
3 are still in a state of emergency for the last
4 15 months. We've done nothing in this budget to
5 address corrections. We've done nothing to
6 increase their staffing, we've done nothing to
7 fix HALT, we've done nothing to correct the
8 contraband crisis.
9 With $535 million you could take
10 half of that -- if you could find people willing
11 to do the job, you could take half that money and
12 hire the corrections officers that we need to
13 replace. But we can't do that because no one
14 wants to take the job because this body in Albany
15 and our partners have made it unsafe to serve.
16 You're sending all the wrong
17 messages to all the wrong people in those
18 facilities. We still have a crisis. Fifteen
19 months and you've done zero for corrections.
20 I'll be voting no.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
22 Stec to be recorded in the negative.
23 Announce the results.
24 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
25 Calendar 1329, voting in the negative are
5950
1 Senators Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Chan,
2 Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Lanza, Martins,
3 Mattera, Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt,
4 Palumbo, Rhoads, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk and Weik.
5 Ayes, 43. Nays, 19.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
7 is passed.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 1330, Assembly Bill Number 10001A, an act making
10 appropriations for the support of government.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
12 Walczyk, why do you rise?
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: Mr. President, I
14 hope someone would yield for a question on the
15 Independent Redistricting Commission funding.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
17 Gianaris, do you yield?
18 SENATOR GIANARIS: That would be
19 me. Yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
23 Mr. President, what a -- what a treat.
24 (Laughter.)
25 SENATOR GIANARIS: It's still
5951
1 Walczyk Wednesday, so it's your time.
2 SENATOR WALCZYK: Indeed.
3 The constitutionally required
4 Independent Redistricting Commission is funded at
5 $1.16 million in this budget. Is the 3 percent
6 increase in operating funding required by the
7 Constitution?
8 SENATOR GIANARIS: No.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
10 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
11 yield?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Does the
13 sponsor yield?
14 SENATOR GIANARIS: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR WALCZYK: So that 3 percent
18 increase in funding for the constitutionally
19 required and voter-approved Independent
20 Redistricting Commission, is that just to keep
21 pace with expenses in anticipation of their --
22 the next time they'll be called to act after the
23 2030 Census?
24 SENATOR GIANARIS: Yeah, I think
25 it's to make sure that staff salaries keep up
5952
1 with inflation and any other necessary expenses
2 that might be incurred.
3 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you.
4 Thank you, Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Thank
6 you, Senator Walczyk.
7 Are there any other Senators wishing
8 to be heard?
9 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
10 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
11 Read the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Call the
15 roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Announce
18 the results.
19 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
20 Calendar 1330, voting in the negative are
21 Senators Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Chan,
22 Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Lanza, Mattera,
23 Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Stec,
24 Tedisco, Walczyk and Weik.
25 Ayes, 45. Nays, 17.
5953
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The bill
2 is passed.
3 Senator Gianaris.
4 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
5 while we await the arrival of the leaders for
6 closing remarks, let me point out that the
7 sponsors of the resolutions we took up several
8 hours ago would like to open them for
9 cosponsorship.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
11 resolutions are all open for cosponsorship.
12 Should you choose not to be a cosponsor, please
13 notify the desk.
14 Senator Gianaris.
15 SENATOR GIANARIS: Would you
16 recognize Senator Lanza for a motion.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
18 Lanza.
19 SENATOR LANZA: Thank you,
20 Senator Gianaris.
21 Mr. President, on behalf of
22 Senator Ortt, on page 60 I offer the following
23 amendments to Calendar 1274, Bill Number 9061,
24 and ask that said bill retain its place on the
25 Third Reading Calendar.
5954
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: The
2 amendments are received, and the bill will retain
3 its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
4 Senator Gianaris.
5 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
6 we now have reached the moment of the evening
7 when the leaders arrive and give their remarks
8 about the budget.
9 And so I want to thank my colleagues
10 for sticking with us through this -- oh, hello,
11 Leader.
12 Please recognize Leader Andrea
13 Stewart-Cousins for --
14 (Off the record.)
15 SENATOR GIANARIS: Oh, never mind.
16 Please recognize Senator Ortt for
17 remarks about the budget.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
19 Ortt for remarks on the budget.
20 SENATOR ORTT: Thank you very much,
21 Mr. President.
22 Here we are, two months late. Not
23 as late as some budgets. 11:20? I can remember
24 many nights that the Majority Leader and I have
25 been speaking at 3 a.m., 4 a.m. And so I guess
5955
1 in that regard it's a positive.
2 I first, before I get into my
3 remarks on the document, on the budget, I do want
4 to thank our staff in the Minority who goes
5 through all of these bills, sometimes very late,
6 sometimes, you know, sort of in a time crunch.
7 They not only have to go through the bill and
8 tell us all of the wonderful things that are in
9 there, or wonderful things that are missing, but
10 they also have to answer all the questions that
11 our conference has about the legislation.
12 And they do so very professionally,
13 and there was no way that our conference could do
14 the job that our constituents elected us to do
15 without the work of our staff. So I certainly
16 want to thank them.
17 Ben Kosinski, our chief counsel;
18 Chandler, our floor counsel, do a fantastic job,
19 as do many of our subject matter experts.
20 I of course have to thank
21 Senator Tom O'Mara, our ranker on Finance, always
22 does a fantastic job both through the committee
23 process, the hearings, and then obviously here on
24 the floor. This year you got to do 15 extenders,
25 I think it was, right? So I know you enjoyed all
5956
1 of those.
2 I want to give a little shout out to
3 his dance partner, who is missing,
4 Senator Krueger. I wish her well and wish she
5 was here. She's not.
6 I will relay a little story. I sent
7 an email to Senator Krueger when I learned about
8 her medical issue, and we sent flowers and a
9 card.
10 And I don't think she would mind --
11 knowing Senator Krueger, I don't think she would
12 mind me relaying this. She thanked me for the
13 card and the flowers. She was very touched by
14 that show of support and affection for her. And
15 she said to me, you know, she might miss the
16 budget but she said that her colleagues, all of
17 them were ready to debate the budget and she had
18 spoken to Gary Pretlow, Assemblyman Pretlow, and
19 he was willing to come over here and debate the
20 budget if necessary.
21 (Laughter.)
22 SENATOR ORTT: To which I said to
23 her, you know, "I certainly appreciate that." I
24 said, "It should not be lost on you, as it's not
25 lost on me, that it will take all of your
5957
1 colleagues plus Assemblyman Pretlow to replace
2 you on the Senate floor."
3 So she'll be missed. And I wish her
4 well and I hope to see her back here if not this
5 session, certainly next session.
6 So Senator Serrano, who I know
7 filled in, and -- I don't know if I would say
8 answered all the questions of Senator O'Mara --
9 (Laughter.)
10 SENATOR ORTT: -- but certainly --
11 certainly spent time talking to Senator O'Mara,
12 I'll say it that way.
13 (Laughter.)
14 SENATOR ORTT: And I appreciate
15 that, Senator, because I've got to talk to him
16 too; you know, I know how hard that can be. So I
17 appreciate that.
18 Senator Gianaris, Senator Lanza, who
19 spends a lot of time out here with our members
20 and tries to manage the floor and tries to do so
21 in a choreographed way that is both befitting our
22 constituents and the people of the state but also
23 gets us through what is a very long and arduous
24 process.
25 So to Senator Lanza, thank you.
5958
1 Senator Gianaris, thank you.
2 Of course Majority Leader
3 Stewart-Cousins, who we'll hear from shortly,
4 thank you.
5 To my colleagues, thank you for the
6 debate. It's important. You know, it gets testy
7 at times. All the snark aside, and certain
8 things, it's important. And the questions you
9 ask are important. The questions are on behalf
10 of people we represent -- and in some cases
11 people we don't even represent -- but they're
12 questions that need to be asked, because
13 certainly we didn't get a lot of answers through
14 the process, Mr. President. Right?
15 We didn't have one sub-budget
16 committee between the Assembly and the Senate. I
17 remember thinking many years ago that the budget
18 process here in Albany left a lot to be desired.
19 I didn't think it could get worse, but it would
20 appear that it has at least gotten less
21 transparent and more opaque.
22 We're two months late. And I
23 just -- I was thinking about where we started
24 with the Governor's State of the Budget, the
25 budget address, comments from all different
5959
1 leaders and folks.
2 Certainly in the Majority
3 Conference, and even in our conference, the big
4 buzzword at the start of this was affordability.
5 That was the big issue facing New Yorkers: We
6 have to make people's lives more affordable. And
7 there's a range of topics, right -- there's
8 energy, there's taxes, there's insurance, all
9 kinds of issues that we can tackle to try to make
10 their lives more affordable.
11 Now, I watched much of the debate.
12 I listened to it. I went through the bills. And
13 I -- I'll be damned in I can find anywhere that
14 this budget makes someone's life in New York
15 State more affordable. I would dare anyone to
16 tell me how tomorrow, when someone wakes up in
17 Niagara County or Suffolk County or the City of
18 New York, how their life is more affordable
19 tomorrow than it was today, or yesterday.
20 I would even posit that in some ways
21 we've made their life more expensive. We have
22 spent $15 billion more than we did last year.
23 And we'll detail, and we have, on some of the
24 misspending of that 15 billion. We've spent
25 100 billion, Mr. President. A hundred billion
5960
1 dollars, since 2019, more. And I just don't know
2 that there's a New Yorker out there today that
3 could honestly say that they're getting a hundred
4 million dollars more from their state government.
5 In fact, there's a ton of folks who
6 felt they were getting so much less from their
7 state government that they sought residency
8 elsewhere: Florida, Texas, North Carolina,
9 Tennessee. They're going there because those
10 states offer up more affordable options.
11 I remember a couple of years ago,
12 maybe it was two years ago, the former -- well, I
13 guess he's still the -- is he still -- Delgado,
14 he's still Lieutenant Governor, right? I can't
15 keep track of the lieutenant governors. They
16 come and go.
17 (Laughter.)
18 SENATOR ORTT: But he was up there.
19 And he said, We have to work to make the state --
20 everyone should be able to live out their dreams
21 in New York State. And I concur with that. And
22 I think every single person here truly concurs
23 with that thought process.
24 But hopes and dreams are not free.
25 They cost money. Whether you want to go to
5961
1 college, start a business, buy a home. We hear a
2 lot about affordable housing and homeownership.
3 And yet we do things in this chamber that may
4 make the cost of owning a home, of building a
5 home, ever more expensive. We chase that dream
6 away. We make it unreachable.
7 Two hundred sixty-eight billion
8 dollars. Two months. I don't even know why it
9 took us two months to do this. I got to be
10 honest with my colleagues across the aisle, there
11 were a lot of things in here that I thought it
12 took you two months to get to here? Most of this
13 was reported in the news a month and a half ago.
14 The Governor said we had a deal almost 20 days
15 ago. And yet here we are.
16 We talk about affordability and we
17 talk about energy. That's the big -- that's the
18 big one, right? The Governor proposed CLCPA
19 changes. She proposed those changes after
20 NYSERDA leaked a memo, or I guess it was emailed
21 to people -- I don't think if that counts as a
22 leak, but it was emailed. It was sent out. And
23 it said the tax and -- the tax and -- or the cap
24 and tax policy would add $4100 to a household's
25 bill for the year. And I think it was 2100 or
5962
1 2500 for downstate, I think that was
2 Hudson Valley south, and the rest of the state
3 was $4100.
4 Two-thirds of the Majority signed a
5 letter saying we don't want changes to the CLCPA,
6 in the face of that memo. And yet we passed a
7 budget that did have changes to the CLCPA. Now,
8 the changes I would term as cosmetic. We're
9 kicking the dates out down the road. So we had
10 dates, which our conference said you weren't
11 going to meet, and we were right. You're not
12 going to meet them. That's why you're moving
13 them out.
14 I suspect the same person or group
15 of people who picked the first set of dates
16 probably picked this set of dates. Which leads
17 me to believe that person is probably just as
18 likely to be wrong again.
19 On top of that, this conference for
20 years said we need an accounting of the cost of
21 the CLCPA, programs like cap and tax. And we
22 were told, time and again, it's not in place. We
23 can't tell you how much it costs until it's in
24 effect. Kind of like from the same school of
25 thought that you've got to pass the bill to know
5963
1 what's in the bill.
2 And then we were told things like,
3 We can't afford not to pass it. We can't afford
4 not to do it. But then finally, in an election
5 year, it turns out we do have an accounting of
6 what it costs, or at least an estimate.
7 Now, there's people on the Majority
8 side who will say they take issue with that memo.
9 I would tell you I don't believe it either. I
10 bet it's even higher. I bet it's even higher.
11 Because there's never been an accounting by the
12 state government of New York that's ever been
13 right and it's ever been lower than what they
14 said it is.
15 It's always more. It's always more.
16 We all know that. Who's kidding who? It's more.
17 If they say $4100, that's a lowball estimate.
18 The vote by my colleagues across the
19 aisle to change the dates is an admission that
20 this conference was right. There's no other way
21 to frame it. I'm sure you'll try, but there's no
22 other way to frame it.
23 It's an acknowledgment that the
24 CLCPA, as passed in 2019 and as debated by yours
25 truly and former Senator Todd Kaminsky, was too
5964
1 expensive and we couldn't do it. We didn't have
2 the infrastructure, the capacity, the technology.
3 And if that was not the case, I know my
4 colleagues who believe fervently in the CLCPA,
5 they wouldn't have changed it. They changed it
6 because they know it's too expensive, we can't
7 get there.
8 Which is exactly everything this
9 conference has said for a long time, for at least
10 the last six, seven years.
11 But we didn't repeal the CLCPA. We
12 didn't actually change most of the programs. We
13 just moved the dates out. None of that is going
14 to lower anyone's energy bills. If someone's
15 watching this at home -- first of all, God bless
16 you. But if you're watching it tomorrow or
17 you're watching it on the news or you're watching
18 it on social media, what this body did on the
19 CLCPA will not lower your energy bills.
20 As long as the CLCPA remains in
21 force, in statute, your energy bills will
22 continue to be higher -- in fact, 70 percent
23 higher -- than the national average. And don't
24 forget, the Majority didn't even want to do it.
25 Medicaid. We heard a lot of talk
5965
1 about Medicaid this budget. Now, why? Because
2 we've had an explosion of Medicaid. A hundred
3 billion dollars over seven years, 20.7 billion
4 increase in the state share of Medicaid spending
5 in New York. We're spending -- it's almost a --
6 122, almost $123 billion on Medicaid, 89 percent
7 increase.
8 Now, some people will say, Well,
9 it's a good thing. It's for poor people. Sure.
10 If that was all going to poor people, that would
11 be a good thing. But even the best thing has to
12 be managed properly. Even the best thing
13 deserves accountability to the people of New York
14 State.
15 It's really the same thing as the
16 climate law. Just -- even if you believed it was
17 great and the right thing, you still owe the
18 people of New York the answer of how much it's
19 going to cost them.
20 You could think Medicaid's the best
21 program in the world. You still have an
22 obligation to make sure it's managed properly, to
23 make sure it's managed efficiently, and to make
24 sure that the dollars are actually going to the
25 people you say are going to get it.
5966
1 But we know that's not the case.
2 This program is rife with mismanagement, with
3 abuse. It is an unsustainable behemoth in our
4 state budget. And it's already a disaster. The
5 State Comptroller found 1.2 billion in improper
6 payments to people who may or may not even live
7 in the state. Forget whether they're U.S.
8 citizens, they don't live in New York. They're
9 not New York residents.
10 The auditor said there could be up
11 to 3 million ineligible enrollees. But that
12 doesn't scare some of my colleagues, because they
13 want to use this system to automatically add more
14 names to the voter roles. Of course, what better
15 system to choose.
16 Those who are -- there was a debate
17 I know between words, and I guess that's normal.
18 We're on the Senate floor, words matter. Whether
19 you want to call them illegal immigrants, which
20 is a legal term, by the way -- I don't know where
21 Senator Rhoads went -- whether you want to call
22 them undocumented citizens or undocumented
23 individuals, whether you want to call them
24 illegal migrants, whatever term you want to use,
25 it's the same thing: Individuals who are in this
5967
1 country without proper citizenship paperwork who
2 have entered the country illegally. Who are
3 getting the benefits of the most generous
4 government and system in the world.
5 And we want to enroll all of those
6 folks who are in the state -- again, noncitizens,
7 65 and older. This bill would automatically
8 register them to vote unless they opt out.
9 Imagine that. That's not a glitch, folks. That
10 is the plan. That is the plan.
11 This budget doesn't do a lot for a
12 lot of folks. But boy, if you are in this
13 country without citizenship status, this budget
14 is for you. You can't vote for anybody here, or
15 so I'm reminded, but the budget sure bends over
16 backward to take care of these individuals.
17 Total Medicaid spending, now north
18 of 123 billion. State share is 48.4 in 2026. In
19 2019 it was 26.2. It was 500 million, Emergency
20 Medicaid for those who are in this country and
21 state without citizenship, 200 million for
22 Medicaid for illegals over 65. That's what
23 passes for affordability.
24 And then we'll talk about the
25 ICE/immigration part of this budget which we
5968
1 debated last week. There was a lot that was
2 said, but one thing is definitely true. This
3 budget, which that bill is a part of, absolutely
4 makes clear that the intention of the State of
5 New York and the majority conferences are to deny
6 and prohibit local law enforcement, to include
7 elected sheriffs, elected law enforcement
8 officers, it prohibits them from working or
9 assisting ICE in their mission to detain and
10 deport people in the country illegally.
11 And anyone that says otherwise is
12 just not being honest. In fact, some of my
13 colleagues I credit; they were honest. They were
14 less obtuse or silver-tongued about it. They
15 were more honest about what the point is. It was
16 said that ICE is a rogue agency.
17 I would argue that states like
18 New York are rogue states, states that have for
19 decades expanded and enacted sanctuary policies,
20 states that have for decades invited vulnerable
21 people who are not citizens to come here to take
22 advantage of programs like Medicaid. And these
23 folks will never have access to the full American
24 dream because they're a permanent underclass, and
25 we continue to invite them here with these kind
5969
1 of generous programs.
2 Immigration is a federal issue. You
3 don't like the issue? Run for the federal
4 government. Run for Congress. Run for U.S.
5 Senate. But to try and enact de facto
6 immigration policy at the state level to handicap
7 local law enforcement from working with our
8 federal immigration officers, making local law
9 enforcement's job more difficult and passing that
10 off as public protection, is a farce.
11 It is a farce. And I've said this
12 before, Mr. President, it's the issue that I just
13 don't know how we bridge the gap, in this chamber
14 or maybe even across the country.
15 Because I just don't get it. I just
16 don't understand how we can take active measures
17 to prevent the enforcement of our federal
18 immigration laws and prevent local law
19 enforcement from assisting federal law
20 enforcement, which is something post-9/11, the
21 state where 9/11 occurred -- we say never forget,
22 but we have certainly forgotten a lesson out of
23 9/11, which is the sharing of information across
24 levels of law enforcement.
25 Billions of dollars for those here
5970
1 illegally, without citizenship, undocumented,
2 whatever term fits; $15 billion dollars more in
3 spending. Even the auto insurance -- I mean,
4 lookit, we certainly capped what somebody could
5 get if they were catastrophically injured in a
6 car accident. I don't know much about property
7 and casualty law, but I know that.
8 Now, if we get lower insurance
9 rates, maybe that's a fair tradeoff. But that's
10 a far -- that's far from known whether we're
11 going to get lower insurance rates. And we're
12 surely not going to get them tomorrow.
13 So I go back to affordability --
14 well, first of all, we'll start -- timeliness,
15 the budget fails. Affordability, the budget
16 fails. Energy, we continue the same policy which
17 we've had for years. Which is export jobs and
18 import energy. As long as this state wants to
19 get out of the production of energy, that's where
20 the jobs are. That's where the economic impact
21 of the energy policy should be, putting people to
22 work in New York State in the energy sector.
23 I don't know how many folks across
24 the way have been to a solar farm. Not a lot of
25 folks work at the solar farm. And those solar
5971
1 panels very seldom are manufactured in the
2 United States. We export jobs and we import
3 energy. And that has been the policy of
4 Governor Cuomo, and it's the policy with
5 Governor Hochul and certainly this Majority.
6 The immigration piece, I don't know,
7 there was some back-and-forth on this, but it's
8 essentially what is known as New York for All.
9 And that's not a name I gave it, it's a name that
10 someone on the other side gave it. And I thought
11 to myself, What is that, New York for All?
12 Because this bill doesn't seem -- and this budget
13 seem to be a budget for all. If you're a small
14 business owner struggling to make your energy
15 payments, struggling to keep your employees
16 hired, struggling to make ends meet, struggling
17 to stay in the state, this budget's not for you.
18 If you're someone at home who's
19 struggling to pay your energy bills, this budget
20 doesn't do anything for you. If you're working
21 two jobs so your kids can go to school and maybe
22 you can make the rent or mortgage, this budget
23 doesn't do anything for you.
24 This budget doesn't do anything for
25 the people who actually elect us and send us
5972
1 here. How about a New York for New Yorkers? How
2 about an accounting of how we spend money?
3 Rather than saying I tried my best, I had the
4 best of intentions for your tax dollars. That's
5 not enough, Mr. President. It's not enough to
6 try. This isn't the third grade. You've got to
7 do a little better than that.
8 We continue to spend money -- and
9 I've said this before. I know my colleagues on
10 the other side, they really -- many of them
11 believe that spending more money will make this
12 state more affordable. Spending more money means
13 you care. Yet millions of your constituents, of
14 our constituents don't believe you, because they
15 fled to other states. Other states that spend
16 less, they have sought refuge in. Their children
17 have sought refuge in. Their employer has sought
18 refuge in.
19 Those are sanctuary states for
20 New Yorkers: Florida, Texas, North Carolina.
21 We're a sanctuary state for others, for people
22 like Jose Ibarra, for people like the person who
23 pushed the 83-year-old veteran in front of a
24 train in the New York City subway system. That's
25 who we would rather protect. And this budget
5973
1 does nothing to change that.
2 It doesn't meet any of the goals of
3 this conference, and I don't think it meets any
4 of the goals stated by the Majority. And yet two
5 months later, we have it. It's done.
6 Now, normally we would be I guess
7 stopping, we would break for two weeks, go home
8 for Easter and then come back and gear up for the
9 final push. But the final push begins tomorrow.
10 We have a lot of work in front of us, and no
11 doubt some real bad bills coming our way. Which
12 I guess -- I guess is -- this is just the warm-up
13 act, Mr. President, this budget.
14 But I will tell you: Affordability,
15 no, this budget doesn't do it. Fixing the energy
16 policy of this state? No. Continuing to expand
17 sanctuary policy and protect those in this state
18 and this country illegally, handicapping law
19 enforcement, making things more expensive,
20 increasing taxes, bailing out a socialist mayor
21 in New York City, bailing out multiple cities
22 across this state, all run by a certain party,
23 with no strings attached? That's what passes for
24 an affordable budget to help New Yorkers at a
25 critical time. At least that's what passes for
5974
1 the Majority and the Governor.
2 And that's why no doubt this budget
3 I think will act as a conversation point from
4 this point all the way through the November
5 elections and probably beyond, because we'll be
6 living with the impacts of this budget for many
7 months and many years to come.
8 So, Mr. President, I was proud to
9 vote no on all but I think one of the budget
10 bills. I was proud of our conference that
11 acquitted our values, our objectives, their
12 constituencies. And I suspect this is not at
13 last time you're going to hear a lot of these
14 issues.
15 Again, I thank my colleagues across
16 the aisle for the effort, but this budget falls
17 woefully short, Mr. President. And I don't know
18 who the winner was in the budget negotiations,
19 but I know who the loser was, and it was the
20 people of this state.
21 Thank you.
22 (Applause from Republican members.)
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
24 Gianaris.
25 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
5975
1 please recognize Majority Leader Andrea
2 Stewart-Cousins.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Majority
4 Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins, to close.
5 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Thank you
6 so much, Mr. President.
7 And I -- I -- there was so much
8 there to unpack, but I'm not going to try and
9 unpack it all tonight because, as you said, it's
10 late and we have a whole week where we can, you
11 know, continue this conversation, and continue to
12 deliver for the people of New York State.
13 But let me start with the gratitude
14 that I also feel.
15 And I will start with Deputy Leader
16 Mike Gianaris. This is your last budget.
17 (Standing ovation.)
18 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Again,
19 we're going to do this all over again next week
20 as well. So that's why I'm not going to keep you
21 here long.
22 That's why I promise I'm not going
23 to try and outdo you, Mr. Minority Leader. We're
24 going to let you have the longest oration this
25 evening.
5976
1 (Laughter.)
2 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: You win.
3 (Laughter.)
4 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: But I do
5 want to thank Senator Serrano for, you know,
6 stepping up and stepping in as well.
7 (Applause.)
8 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: And of
9 course we talked about Senator Krueger who,
10 believe me, is doing quite well. She has to,
11 because of the event, has to really stay close to
12 home, but she is definitely tuned in and has been
13 a guiding force throughout. So yes, her presence
14 is -- was ever-felt.
15 But, you know, you will see her,
16 God willing, back here in this chamber next year.
17 And again, thank you,
18 Senator O'Mara, for your work as well.
19 Senator Lanza, thanks for being a
20 partner for Senator Gianaris, keeping, you know,
21 the movement that needs to happen.
22 And again, Senator Ortt, I've
23 already mentioned you more than -- once, twice,
24 now three times. Thank you. We said we were
25 going to try and do this by midnight, and you
5977
1 took all my time.
2 (Laughter.)
3 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: So --
4 SENATOR ORTT: (Inaudible.)
5 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: -- you
6 know, it was -- I can see that. You know -- you
7 know, I like to try to keep my promises, so I'm
8 going to try and get us out of here by midnight
9 so that you all can enjoy the rest of the
10 evening. But --
11 (Laughter.)
12 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: You know
13 what I'm saying really, right?
14 (Laughter.)
15 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Alejandra
16 says that she's waiting for people.
17 (Laughter.)
18 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: So again,
19 I want to --
20 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SENATOR: We want
21 to get paid! We want to get paid!
22 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: I'm glad
23 you said that. We are humble public servants
24 and --
25 (Laughter.)
5978
1 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: -- we --
2 you know, that's part of it, but -- yeah, but we
3 are certainly privileged to be able to serve the
4 people of New York.
5 And again, to that end, I want to
6 thank staff again, you know, both sides of the
7 aisle. You work hard and relentlessly.
8 And certainly I want to thank, you
9 know, my senior staff: Jonathan Lang, who's the
10 secretary of the Majority Counsel Program;
11 Dorothy Powell, counsel; Chris Friend, our
12 finance secretary; Mr. Mike Murphy, my
13 communications director; Leah Goldman, director
14 of intergovernmental and external affairs.
15 I want to thank the Secretary of the
16 Senate, Alejandra Paulino, and her team.
17 And of course, from my own staff,
18 led by Jonathan Alvarenga, to keep us going.
19 I want to thank my partners in
20 government, Governor Hochul, Speaker Heastie.
21 We've spent a lot of time together over these
22 past weeks and months, all because we wanted to
23 make progress in the mission of working for the
24 people of New York -- and, yes, affordability.
25 I also again want to thank everyone
5979
1 in the chamber, certainly, for the decorum and
2 the debate. But I especially want to thank my
3 conference, the Majority Conference, for your
4 incredible and relentless work, day in and day
5 out. No matter what time, no matter what was
6 needed, you stepped up, as you always do. So I
7 really, really thank every single one of you.
8 Every budget has unique challenges.
9 And when those challenges involve major policy
10 decisions, it's our responsibility to be both
11 thorough and thoughtful. Throughout the budget
12 process, I returned again and again to the data
13 and to ensuring that the policy in this budget
14 truly addresses, yes, the affordability crisis
15 and eases burdens for New Yorkers.
16 The budget process has unfolded
17 against a backdrop of national economic
18 uncertainty, the far-reaching consequences of a
19 reckless war. Families are feeling it at the
20 gas pump and the grocery store, and we know our
21 gas prices are exceeding $4 a gallon, no end in
22 sight. And people are feeling it in their daily
23 lives as many of the federal actions threaten
24 essential services. That's the backdrop.
25 In the face of these challenges, the
5980
1 budget builds on our legislative work to lower
2 costs for New Yorkers, strengthen programs that
3 families rely on, invest in the long-term future
4 of our state. We're expanding childcare,
5 supporting our healthcare systems, safety net
6 hospitals. We're delivering direct utility
7 relief to working families. We're fully funding
8 the thing that you voted for, every level of
9 public education. We're advancing clean energy
10 initiatives, creating more affordable housing
11 opportunities and, yes, jobs across New York.
12 With several years of the Democratic
13 conference fighting for progressive taxation and
14 asking the wealthiest individuals to pay their
15 fair share, we secured a budget that delivers on
16 the promise, offers critical support, yes, to
17 New York City, the economic engine of our state,
18 while at the same time making historic
19 investments in local governments, infrastructure,
20 public safety, all while continuing to support
21 our veterans, first responders, public-sector
22 unions, New York's agriculture industry.
23 And yes, when I stood in the chamber
24 at the beginning of the year I made it clear that
25 we would stand up at this moment on immigration.
5981
1 And this is what we did in this budget. We are
2 standing up to ICE and acknowledging the harm and
3 the fear that has been sown in our communities.
4 This budget continues to meet the
5 challenges facing our state head-on. We believe
6 that the government should make life more
7 affordable, not harder, for working families. We
8 believe in protecting essential services,
9 investing in our community and its people, and
10 ensuring that everyone in the state has the
11 opportunity to succeed.
12 New York is standing firm in our
13 values. We are lowering costs. We are investing
14 in people. We are continuing to move our state
15 forward. It is midnight. Do enjoy the rest of
16 the evening.
17 (Laughter.)
18 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: And
19 again, this will be continued. We do have a
20 hard, long week ahead of great bills,
21 Senator Ortt, that you will have --
22 (Laughter; applause.)
23 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: -- an
24 opportunity to opine on.
25 Thank you very much.
5982
1 (Standing ovation.)
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: Senator
3 Gianaris.
4 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
5 let me just remind my colleagues, we're going to
6 be getting early starts for the remaining session
7 days, to get through all our work. You don't
8 want to miss tomorrow; one of the great bills is
9 of course Senator Walczyk increasing taxes on his
10 residents in Herkimer County.
11 (Laughter.)
12 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there any
13 further business at the desk?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: There is
15 no further business at the desk.
16 SENATOR GIANARIS: I move to
17 adjourn until tomorrow, Thursday, May 28th, at
18 11:30 a.m.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY: On
20 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
21 Thursday, May 28th, at 11:30 a.m.
22 (Whereupon, at 12:00 a.m., the
23 Senate adjourned.)
24
25