Public Hearing - February 9, 2022

                                                                       1

 1  BEFORE THE NEW YORK STATE SENATE FINANCE
    AND ASSEMBLY WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEES
 2  ----------------------------------------------------
            JOINT LEGISLATIVE HEARING
 3             In the Matter of the
            2022-2023 EXECUTIVE BUDGET
 4        ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS/
                GENERAL GOVERNMENT
 5  ----------------------------------------------------
    
 6                              Virtual Hearing 
                                Conducted via Zoom
 7  
                                February 9, 2022
 8                              9:34 a.m.
    
 9  
    PRESIDING:
10  
              Senator Liz Krueger
11            Chair, Senate Finance Committee
    
12            Assemblywoman Helene E. Weinstein
              Chair, Assembly Ways & Means Committee
13  
    PRESENT:
14  
              Senator Thomas F. O'Mara
15            Senate Finance Committee (RM)
    
16            Assemblyman Edward P. Ra 
              Assembly Ways & Means Committee (RM)
17  
              Assemblyman Edward C. Braunstein
18            Chair, Assembly Committee on Cities
    
19            Senator Luis R. Sepúlveda
              Chair, Senate Committee on Cities 1
20  
              Assemblyman Fred W. Thiele, Jr.
21            Chair, Assembly Committee on 
               Local Governments
22  
              Senator James Gaughran
23            Chair, Senate Committee on Local Government
    
24


                                                                   2

 1  2022-2023 Executive Budget
    Local Government Officials/
 2  General Government
    2-9-22
 3  
    
 4  PRESENT:  (Continued)
    
 5            Senator Jeremy A. Cooney
              Chair, Senate Committee on Cities 2
 6  
              Senator John C. Liu
 7  
              Assemblyman Colin Schmitt
 8  
              Senator Pete Harckham
 9  
              Assemblywoman Sarah Clark
10  
              Assemblyman Charles D. Fall
11  
              Senator Andrew Gounardes
12  
              Assemblyman Jonathan G. Jacobson
13  
              Assemblyman Robert C. Carroll
14  
              Assemblyman William Conrad
15  
              Senator Diane J. Savino
16  
              Senator Shelley Mayer
17  
              Assemblyman Steven Otis
18  
              Senator George Borrello
19  
              Assemblywoman Latrice Walker
20  
              Senator Rachel May
21  
              Assemblywoman Rebecca A. Seawright
22  
              Senator John E. Brooks
23  
              Assemblywoman Taylor Darling
24  

                                                                   3

 1  2022-2023 Executive Budget
    Local Government Officials/
 2  General Government
    2-9-22
 3  
    
 4  PRESENT:  (Continued)
    
 5            Assemblyman Erik M. Dilan
    
 6            Assemblywoman Gina L. Sillitti
    
 7            Assemblyman Kenneth Zebrowski
    
 8            Assemblywoman Nily Rozic
    
 9            Senator Brad Hoylman
    
10            Assemblywoman Anna R. Kelles
    
11            Assemblyman Jonathan Rivera
    
12            Senator Zellnor Myrie
    
13            Assemblyman Michael Reilly
    
14            Senator Edward A. Rath III
    
15            Assemblyman Mark Walczyk
    
16            Assemblyman Michael Tannousis
    
17            Senator James Tedisco
    
18            Assemblyman Michael Cusick
    
19            Assemblywoman Jennifer Lunsford
    
20            Assemblyman Jeffrion L. Aubry
    
21            Senator Roxanne J. Persaud
    
22            Assemblywoman Jessica González-Rojas
    
23            Assemblyman Zohran K. Mamdani
    
24            Assemblyman Demond Meeks
    

                                                                   4

 1  2022-2023 Executive Budget
    Local Government Officials/
 2  General Government
    2-9-22
 3  
    
 4  PRESENT:  (Continued)
    
 5            Senator Michelle Hinchey
    
 6            Assemblyman David I. Weprin 
    
 7            Senator Gustavo Rivera
    
 8            Assemblyman John T. McDonald III
    
 9            Senator Kevin Thomas
    
10            Assemblyman Christopher S. Friend
    
11            Senator Robert Jackson
    
12            Assemblyman Al Taylor 
    
13            Senator Cordell Cleare
    
14            Assemblywoman Alicia Hyndman
    
15            Senator Leroy Comrie
    
16            Assemblyman J. Gary Pretlow
    
17            Senator Sue Serino
    
18            Assemblyman Kenny Burgos
    
19            Senator Jamaal T. Bailey
    
20            Assemblywoman Chantel Jackson
    
21            Senator Julia Salazar
    
22  
    
23  
    
24  
    

                                                                   5

 1  2022-2023 Executive Budget
    Local Government Officials/
 2  General Government
    2-9-22
 3  
                       LIST OF SPEAKERS
 4  
                                           STATEMENT QUESTIONS
 5  
    Honorable Eric Adams
 6  Mayor 
    City of New York                           11        20
 7  
    Honorable Byron W. Brown
 8  Mayor
    City of Buffalo                           212       220
 9  
    Honorable Malik Evans
10  Mayor 
    City of Rochester                         259       268
11  
    Honorable Mike Spano
12  Mayor
    City of Yonkers                           307       317
13  
    Honorable Ben Walsh
14  Mayor
    City of Syracuse                          338       350
15  
    Honorable Kathy M. Sheehan
16  Mayor
    City of Albany                            361       369
17  
    Honorable Brad Lander
18  Comptroller
    New York City Comptroller's
19   Office                                   384       394
    
20  Peter Baynes
    Executive Director
21  New York State Conference of
     Mayors                                   438       447
22  
    Honorable Adrienne Adams
23  Speaker
    New York City Council                     488       500
24  

                                                                   6

 1  2022-2023 Executive Budget
    Local Government Officials/
 2  General Government
    2-9-22
 3  
                       LIST OF SPEAKERS, Continued 
 4  
                                           STATEMENT QUESTIONS
 5  
    Stephen J. Acquario
 6  Executive Director
    NYS Association of Counties              532       542
 7  
    Gerry Geist
 8  Executive Director
    Association of Towns of the
 9   State of New York                       574       582
    
10  Danielle Brecker
    Co-Lead Organizer 
11  Empire State Indivisible
         -and-
12  Laura Bierman
    Executive Director
13  League of Women Voters
         -and-
14  Dustin Czarny
    Democratic Caucus Chair
15  New York State Election 
     Commissioners Association
16       -and-
    Joanna Zdanys
17  Senior Counsel, Elections and 
     Government Program
18  Brennan Center for Justice 
     at NYU School of Law                    601       614
19  
    Adam Zaranko
20  President
    New York Land Bank Association
21       -and-
    Camille Mackler
22  Executive Director
    Immigrant ARC                            621       629
23  
    
24

                                                                   7

 1                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Good morning.  

 2           I am Helene Weinstein, chair of the New York 

 3           State Assembly's Ways and Means Committee and 

 4           co-chair of today's hearing.  

 5                  We begin the 9th in a series of 

 6           hearings conducted by the joint fiscal 

 7           committees of the Legislature regarding the 

 8           Governor's proposed budget for fiscal year 

 9           2022-'23.  The hearings are conducted 

10           pursuant to the New York State Constitution 

11           and the Legislative Law.

12                  And today our joint committees will 

13           hear testimony concerning the Governor's 

14           budget proposal for local governments.

15                  Let me introduce the members of my 

16           conference who are here, and then my co-chair 

17           of today's hearing, Senator Liz Krueger, 

18           chair of the Finance Committee, will 

19           introduce the members of her conference.

20                  So we have with us today the chair of 

21           our Cities Committee, Assemblyman Braunstein; 

22           the chair of our Local Governments Committee, 

23           Assemblyman Thiele; Assemblyman Carroll; 

24           Assemblyman Conrad; Assemblywoman Darling; 


                                                                   8

 1           Assemblyman Fall; Assemblywoman Lunsford; 

 2           Assemblyman Mamdani; Assemblyman Otis; 

 3           Assemblywoman Walker.  

 4                  And I know that there will be other 

 5           members joining us as the -- I see 

 6           Assemblyman Jacobson, Assemblywoman Rozic, 

 7           Assemblyman Rivera.  And other members will 

 8           join us -- Assemblyman Zebrowski -- will join 

 9           us as the day goes on.

10                  Senator Krueger, why don't you 

11           introduce your members, and then we'll come 

12           back to Assemblyman Ra.

13                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Great.  Thank you 

14           very much, Helene.  

15                  Welcome, everyone.  So I'm seeing so 

16           far our chair of Local Governments, Senator 

17           Jim Gaughran; our chair of Cities for 

18           New York City, Luis Sepúlveda; our chair of 

19           Other Cities, Jeremy Cooney.  Senator Diane 

20           Savino, Senator Zellnor Myrie, Senator 

21           Roxanne Persaud, Senator Michelle Hinchey, 

22           Senator John Liu, Senator John Brooks, 

23           Senator Gustavo Rivera, Senator Andrew 

24           Gounardes, Senator Kevin Thomas.  And did I 


                                                                   9

 1           jump over Senator Pete Harckham?  I'm afraid 

 2           I did, apologies.  Senator Pete Harckham.  

 3                  And now I'm going to turn it over to 

 4           my ranker in Finance and partner in this 

 5           exercise, Tom O'Mara, to introduce his 

 6           members.

 7                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Thank you, Senator.  

 8           Good morning, everybody.  

 9                  We have been joined by Senator Jim 

10           Tedisco, Senator George Borrello, and 

11           Senator Ed Rath.  

12                  Thank you.

13                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

14                  Assemblyman Ra, ranker on Ways and 

15           Means, can you please introduce your 

16           conference members who are here with us?  

17                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Thank you, Chair.  

18           Good morning.  

19                  We are joined by Assemblyman Reilly, 

20           the ranker on the Cities Committee; 

21           Assemblyman Schmitt, the ranker on 

22           Local Governments; and Assemblyman Walczyk.  

23                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  And we've also 

24           been joined by Assemblywoman Sillitti.


                                                                   10

 1                  So just a quick reminder for those 

 2           witnesses coming up and legislators who are 

 3           listening, the time limits -- governmental 

 4           witnesses have 10 minutes to present their 

 5           testimony.  The testimony of all witnesses 

 6           has already been distributed, so please 

 7           summarize if possible.

 8                  Nongovernmental witnesses later in the 

 9           day will get three minutes each to make their 

10           presentation.  

11                  The chairs of the relevant committees 

12           of the hearing will get 10 minutes and a 

13           second round of three minutes, if desired, to 

14           ask questions.  Ranking members of the 

15           committees get five minutes.  And all other 

16           members get three minutes.

17                  And as I've mentioned, the time limit 

18           is for both the questions and the answers.  

19           And keep an eye on the clock; it should be in 

20           the upper left-hand corner.

21                  With that being said, I'd like to 

22           welcome our first witness today, the 

23           Honorable Eric Adams, the mayor of New York 

24           City and a former colleague of many of ours.  


                                                                   11

 1                  Mr. Mayor, the floor is yours.  

 2           Welcome.

 3                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you so much.  It 

 4           is good to see many of you who I have served 

 5           with.  I feel like this is a Virginia Slims 

 6           moment -- you know, we've come a long way.  

 7           You know?  And I was on the other side of 

 8           that -- this discussion, and now to be here 

 9           as the mayor of the City of New York and once 

10           again partner with you, it means a lot to me.  

11           And I'm really proud to have served with you 

12           and now to serve as the mayor.  

13                  I want to thank you, Chair Krueger, 

14           Chair Weinstein, ranking minority members 

15           O'Mara and Ra, and all members attending 

16           today's hearing.  I would like to also thank 

17           Speaker Carl Heastie and Majority Leader 

18           Andrea Stewart-Cousins.  

19                  I'm Eric Adams, as you stated, and I 

20           am honored to appear before you today as the 

21           110th mayor of the great City of New York.  

22           I'm joined here by my budget director, 

23           Jacques Jiha and Tiffany Raspberry, senior 

24           advisor for external affairs.  


                                                                   12

 1                  At this moment, our city is focused on 

 2           three significant goals:  reducing crime, 

 3           overcoming the challenges caused by the 

 4           pandemic, and rebuilding our economy.  Today 

 5           I will outline three key steps we can 

 6           collectively take to overcome these issues 

 7           and improve our city.  

 8                  First, an urgent request for more 

 9           funding for mental health services, 

10           particularly for New Yorkers that are a 

11           danger to themselves and others.  

12                  Second, changes to the Earned Income 

13           Tax Credit, to put more cash in the pocket of 

14           working New Yorkers.  And third, new 

15           childcare initiatives that will address 

16           childcare deserts and allow parents to get 

17           back to work.  

18                  These initiatives will have cascading 

19           effects throughout the city, advancing the 

20           priorities we all care about.  Before we can 

21           talk about any specific plans, we need to 

22           begin with the topic of public safety.  

23           Safety and justice are the keys to 

24           prosperity.  We cannot function as a city 


                                                                   13

 1           unless New Yorkers are safe and feel safe -- 

 2           on our streets, our transit system, our 

 3           workplaces, and our homes.  

 4                  A few weeks ago, I laid out my 

 5           administration's Blueprint to End Gun 

 6           Violence, a multi-disciplinary approach to 

 7           reducing crime and addressing its underlying 

 8           causes.  As I said then, the sea of gun 

 9           violence in our city does not have one single 

10           point of origin.  It flows from many rivers, 

11           each contributing to the problem.  Reducing 

12           crime will require both intervention and 

13           prevention.  

14                  That is why it is urgent that we 

15           request the state's immediate assistance in 

16           expanding the number of beds for those in 

17           critical need of mental health care, and 

18           funding for the medical and support staff 

19           they require.  Too many of our fellow 

20           New Yorkers are cycled through temporary care 

21           and released before they are ready, often due 

22           to the limited availability of long-term 

23           support and housing.  We now face a 

24           humanitarian crisis in our streets and on our 


                                                                   14

 1           transit system that threatens our city's 

 2           safety and recovery, and we cannot afford to 

 3           let this issue go unaddressed any longer.  

 4                  And as I have previously mentioned, we 

 5           also ask for the state to make targeted 

 6           amendments to New York's bail laws to allow 

 7           judges to consider a defendant's 

 8           dangerousness, especially for individuals 

 9           accused of perpetrating gun violence.  

10                  We also support removing overly 

11           burdensome disclosures.  The extensive 

12           requirements of the new discovery bill have 

13           led to too many delays and dismissals.  We 

14           urge the state to distinguish what is truly 

15           necessary for discovery, especially in cases 

16           where a complainant directly brought law 

17           enforcement to the scene.  

18                  My administration supports changes to 

19           Raise the Age legislation.  It is long 

20           overdue.  Too many New Yorkers in their late 

21           teens and early twenties have abused this 

22           change, demanding young people under 18 take 

23           the fall for guns that are not truly theirs.  

24           The law is being used to victimize our youth. 


                                                                   15

 1                  And finally, I also support the 

 2           Clean Slate Act, which is essential to our 

 3           holistic approach to public safety.  We 

 4           cannot allow a criminal conviction to define 

 5           a person's life.  It did not define my life.  

 6           I have a criminal conviction, and I'm now the 

 7           mayor of this city.  We need to do it for 

 8           others.  The more opportunity we provide to 

 9           those who have had contact with the criminal 

10           justice system, the safer we will all be.  

11                  The second major step of my plan is to 

12           increase the Earned Income Tax Credit.  It 

13           has been nearly 20 years since the City and 

14           State of New York increased the Earned Income 

15           Tax Credit benefit that has helped so many 

16           low- to moderate-income families.  This is 

17           why I'm asking the state to authorize the 

18           city to boost the amount the city gives back 

19           to recipients of the Earned Income Tax 

20           Credit, up to 30 percent of the federal 

21           benefit depending on income.  

22                  In addition, I'm calling on the state 

23           to match our efforts by increasing the amount 

24           it gives back to recipients with an 


                                                                   16

 1           additional state investment of up to 

 2           $250 million.  The state has been generous to 

 3           New Yorkers, but it hasn't adjusted the 

 4           percentage it gives back in nearly two 

 5           decades.  It's time to change that.  The cost 

 6           of living is up, and a dollar doesn't go as 

 7           far as it used to.  We all know that.  

 8                  Expanding the EITC will allow New York 

 9           to get money to hardworking New Yorkers and 

10           build a strong foundation to address ongoing  

11           economic inequality.  With your support for 

12           this proposal, we will ensure that 

13           much-needed relief will reach those most in 

14           need.  

15                  And finally, we get to childcare, so 

16           important for all of us.  Many of the 

17           hardships faced by working-class and 

18           low-income parents have become more 

19           pronounced during the pandemic.  Those who 

20           cannot find affordable childcare are trapped 

21           in a never-ending negative economic cycle. 

22           They need help.  We recognize and appreciate 

23           that the Executive Budget expands childcare 

24           eligibility.  The Governor's proposal would 


                                                                   17

 1           increase childcare eligibility from 

 2           200 percent of the state income standard to 

 3           300 percent in 2024.  These increases would 

 4           make childcare subsidies more accessible for 

 5           vulnerable families that need help, and we 

 6           support this proposal.  

 7                  The budget also includes $75 million 

 8           in federal funding to provide wage 

 9           enhancements for childcare workers, which is 

10           also welcome.  We look forward to working 

11           with the Governor and you to go further in 

12           providing pathways for families to access 

13           affordable childcare.  This is so important 

14           for us.

15                  Also, the state should fund the cost 

16           of the increased foster care subsidy rate on 

17           localities.  If this is not addressed, the 

18           city faces a $117 million shortfall, 

19           depriving other city-funded social services 

20           of desperately needed resources.  

21                  Two additional proposals could help 

22           create more childcare space by utilizing tax 

23           incentives.  The first proposal would 

24           authorize the city to offer property owners a 


                                                                   18

 1           tax abatement for retrofitting space to 

 2           establish childcare centers.  The second 

 3           proposal would authorize New York City to 

 4           provide a tax credit to companies that 

 5           provide free or subsidized childcare for 

 6           their employees in their place of business.  

 7                  We must do everything we can to lift 

 8           up working families across the board, and 

 9           those working adults.  These proposals, along 

10           with other initiatives to be included in the 

11           enacted budget, will help make sure our 

12           children are cared for and our parents are 

13           supported.  

14                  While we continue to advance our 

15           COVID-19 recovery, we must also address our 

16           economic recovery.  Now more than ever, 

17           New York City's economy, and especially our 

18           small businesses, need our help.  To make 

19           this happen, we are going to slash red tape 

20           and make it easier to do business in the 

21           City.  I've already started this work with my 

22           Small Business Forward Executive Order, which 

23           directs city agencies to reevaluate the 

24           penalties issued to small businesses.  This 


                                                                   19

 1           will be a hallmark of my administration.  

 2                  When I campaigned for mayor, I didn't 

 3           just promise the people new programs and 

 4           ideas.  I promised an efficient government 

 5           that prioritizes responsible spending of 

 6           public dollars.  We must get our money's 

 7           worth.  I have already begun to make good on 

 8           this promise by implementing a Program to 

 9           Eliminate the Gap, or PEG, which will require 

10           city agencies to find savings in their 

11           budgets by 3 percent.  I've also appointed 

12           the city’s first Chief Efficiency Officer, 

13           who will hold city agencies even more 

14           accountable to our taxpayers.  These actions 

15           will build one of the most cost-effective and 

16           fiscally responsible governments this city 

17           has ever seen.  

18                  As you have heard, we have a lot of 

19           work to do for this city, and our sleeves are 

20           rolled up to get stuff done.  Of course, we 

21           need your partnership, which brings me to the 

22           Governor's Executive Budget.  

23                  I want to thank the Governor for 

24           including many of our essential priorities in 


                                                                   20

 1           this budget.  I especially want to thank 

 2           Governor Hochul for including a four-year 

 3           extension of mayoral accountability for 

 4           New York City public schools.  This extension 

 5           will help my administration improve education 

 6           and prioritize equity.  Instead of leaving 

 7           our students to fail, especially our Black 

 8           and brown students, we will help them 

 9           overcome adversity and find their way.  

10                  I struggled with undiagnosed dyslexia 

11           as a child, and we can't allow that to happen 

12           to others.  These roadblocks must continue to 

13           be removed from our students, and we can make 

14           it happen.

15                  And so I see my time has run out.  We 

16           have other things I hope come up during your 

17           question-and-answer period.  But again, I 

18           thank you for allowing me to come before you, 

19           my former colleagues and, most importantly, 

20           my friends.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  

22           Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

23                  We now will go to members for 

24           questions.  And we go first to the chair of 


                                                                   21

 1           the Assembly Cities Committee, Assemblyman Ed 

 2           Braunstein.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Thank you, 

 4           Chair Weinstein.  I'm unmuted now?

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Yes, we can 

 6           hear you.

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Yes.  

 8                  And thank you, Mr. Mayor, for joining 

 9           us, and also Mr. Jiha and Ms. Raspberry for 

10           joining us today.

11                  I just have a few questions about your 

12           testimony.  The first question I have, 

13           Mr. Mayor, is your administration is 

14           requesting that the state increase the 

15           bonding authority to the New York City 

16           Transitional Finance Authority.  How much of 

17           an increase are you asking for?  And what are 

18           your plans to spend that money on?

19                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you so much.  As I 

20           stated, I'm joined with the head of my Office 

21           of Budget, and I'm going to let him respond 

22           to that.

23                  NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:  Yeah, what 

24           we're asking for again is to increase the top 


                                                                   22

 1           borrowing capacity by $19 billion, because 

 2           currently we're looking at debt-incurring 

 3           power, looking at debt-incurring power to 

 4           drop to about 4.5 billion by 2026, which is 

 5           concerning to us.  

 6                  So as managers, we -- because the city 

 7           plans to do long-term planning, so 

 8           therefore -- and we have also a number of 

 9           projects that span over a number of years.  

10           So as a result, we cannot wait until 2026 to 

11           secure this additional capacity.  So that's 

12           what we're asking the state to provide us, to 

13           provide us an additional $19 billion of 

14           capacity for the TFA.

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  So this is 

16           just to help for existing projects, it's not 

17           for new projects?  

18                  NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:  It's to 

19           help for existing projects.  You know, this 

20           is only increasing capacity, it's not 

21           increasing borrowing.  It doesn't mean that 

22           we're going to borrow that much money.  

23                  It's the debt -- this is the capacity 

24           that we had.  And because of the drop in 


                                                                   23

 1           property values in New York City -- and, you 

 2           know, the borrowing capacity of New York City 

 3           is tied to what the commercial value -- to 

 4           property, the value of properties in New York 

 5           City.  So because the property values in 

 6           New York City have dropped, so our debt 

 7           capacity has dropped.  So we're asking the 

 8           state to basically restore the debt capacity 

 9           we had before the pandemic.  

10                  And this is at no cost to the state.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  You don't 

12           anticipate those property values to rebound?

13                  NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:  Well, we 

14           expect them to rebound, but it's going to 

15           take some time.  Because currently we have a 

16           commercial -- the vacancy rate in New York 

17           City is about 20 percent, which is big.  So 

18           you're talking -- you know, if you're looking 

19           at it a different way, it's basically the 

20           entire downtown Manhattan is basically 

21           vacant.  That's what, you know, 20 percent 

22           vacancy means.  

23                  So it's going to take some time.  And 

24           also we don't know whether or not this is a 


                                                                   24

 1           structural shift in the economy because of 

 2           people working from home, hybrid economy, 

 3           whether or not, you know, companies would 

 4           basically begin to shrink their footprint in 

 5           New York City.  So again, it's not clear yet, 

 6           so -- and we cannot wait to -- for 

 7           properties -- to say, you know, that we're 

 8           expecting property values to come back so 

 9           therefore we don't need the additional 

10           capacity.

11                  So as managers, we're doing many 

12           things at the same time.  We're hoping that 

13           the commercial real estate values in New York 

14           come back.  But at the same time, because we 

15           have to plan a capital program, we cannot 

16           wait, hoping that they will come back.  So 

17           that's the reason why we're asking the state 

18           to give us the authority so we can plan 

19           long-term.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Okay.  

21           Another question -- 

22                  MAYOR ADAMS:  And Assemblyman -- and 

23           Assemblyman, it falls in line to what your 

24           advocacy and fight for -- what you have done 


                                                                   25

 1           to allow us to be on an equal footing with 

 2           design-build.  We want to make sure we 

 3           expeditiously get these projects done, and 

 4           being able to borrow at the right capacity is 

 5           going to assist in that.  

 6                  So this is in alignment with what you 

 7           have allowed us to do and the work of the 

 8           Assembly has allowed us to do here in the 

 9           city.

10                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Okay, thank 

11           you.

12                  In 2021 we allowed the city to 

13           establish a Rainy Day Fund.  It seems that in 

14           2021 fiscal year the city invested 500 

15           million into the Rainy Day Fund, and it's 

16           projected again in 2022 that the city will 

17           put another 500 million into the Rainy Day 

18           Fund.  

19                  Do you plan to continue this trend of 

20           adding funding to the Rainy Day Fund?  And if 

21           not, or if you plan on taking money out, what 

22           would be the criteria for which you would 

23           remove money from the Rainy Day Fund?

24                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Our goal -- I'm going to 


                                                                   26

 1           my budget director to tackle that, but let me 

 2           tell you this.  Our goal is to continue to 

 3           put money in the Rainy Day Fund.  As we saw, 

 4           COVID was not a rainy day, it was a typhoon.  

 5           And not being prepared for the future of -- 

 6           in the outyears we're looking at a 

 7           multi-billion-dollar budget deficit.  

 8                  So we're doing the smart things now.  

 9           That is why we put in the 3 percent PEG, 

10           because we're being prepared for the outyears 

11           and the challenges that we are going to face.

12                  So it's our goal to ensure that we get 

13           an efficient government, look at the waste 

14           and the cost savings to make sure we can be 

15           prepared for the future.  We want to continue 

16           to put in place money in the Rainy Day Fund.

17                  Jacques.

18                  NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:  I think you 

19           answered the question directly, Mr. Mayor.  

20           That's the goal.  Currently we have a billion 

21           dollars in the Rainy Day Fund, and our goal 

22           is not to take down the Rainy Day Fund for 

23           any reason unless there is an extreme 

24           emergency.


                                                                   27

 1                  But our ultimate goal is to keep 

 2           adding to the Rainy Day Fund.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Great.  At 

 4           the end of December the mayor's Property Tax 

 5           Reform Commission, the previous mayor's 

 6           Property Tax Reform Commission finally came 

 7           out with their full recommendations.  Do you 

 8           plan to implement any of those 

 9           recommendations or -- what are your plans for 

10           comprehensive property tax reform?  

11                  I mean, we all know that homeowners -- 

12           particularly in the outer boroughs -- pay 

13           higher effective property tax rates than 

14           generally wealthier homeowners in Manhattan 

15           and parts of Brooklyn.  Do you plan on 

16           pursuing property tax reform?

17                  MAYOR ADAMS:  It is crucial.  And, you 

18           know, I say all the time I am not the choir, 

19           I wrote the song.  When former Finance Chair 

20           Martha Stark approached those of us who were 

21           impacted by an unfair property tax system, I 

22           was one of them that wanted to be part of the 

23           initial lawsuit, but I was not allowed to be 

24           a part of it.  And I wanted to do an amicus 


                                                                   28

 1           court brief because it was an unfair system.  

 2                  And so our administration is going to 

 3           be focused on creating a fair system that is 

 4           not overburdensome and unfair to those in the 

 5           outer boroughs.  It is unacceptable that we 

 6           allowed this to go on this long.

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Thank you.  

 8           And my final question is I just want to get a 

 9           sense of -- the federal government, our 

10           partners in Washington, particularly our 

11           congressional delegation, was successful in 

12           allocating federal aid to state and local 

13           governments.  And I'd like to know how much 

14           federal aid the city has received, how much 

15           has been spent, how much is planning to be 

16           spent, and what that aid is being spent on.  

17                  MAYOR ADAMS:  I'm going to let my 

18           budget director -- Jacques?  

19                  NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:  Yeah.  We 

20           received about $5.8 billion from the federal 

21           government, and the money was fully 

22           appropriated in the last adopted budget.  

23                  And basically money was spent on 

24           everything dealing with test and trace, 


                                                                   29

 1           reopening the economy.  So we have -- I could 

 2           give you a list of the entire, you know, 

 3           scope of works that we -- projects that we 

 4           invested in.  

 5                  But mainly the focus was on getting 

 6           the economy back.  So the stimulus money was 

 7           basically front-loaded, the spending, so that 

 8           we could get the economy back up and running.  

 9           And as the economy begins to recover, we will 

10           substitute city tax dollars for federal 

11           dollars.  That was our objective because by 

12           law we have to spend the money down by 2025.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  So it's 

14           already been spent or it's already been 

15           allocated?  You don't anticipate receiving 

16           more -- 

17                  NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:  It's 

18           already been allocated.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  And it's been 

20           spent on recurring expenses or kind of what 

21           we call one-shot spending?  

22                  NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:  It's a 

23           combination.  It's a combination of recurring 

24           and one-shots, yeah. 


                                                                   30

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Okay.  okay, 

 2           thank you very much.  Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

 3                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  

 4                  We go to the Senate now.

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

 6           much.  

 7                  And our first questioner will be chair 

 8           of the Cities Committee for New York City, 

 9           Senator Luis Sepúlveda.

10                  SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:  Thank you, 

11           Madam Chair.  

12                  Thank you, Mayor, for appearing today 

13           with us.  And I want to say that as the new 

14           chair of this committee, I'm going to work 

15           every single day to bring much-needed 

16           resources to the City of New York, especially 

17           the area that I represent, which is one of 

18           the poorest areas in the entire State of 

19           New York.  And I hope that we can continue 

20           the partnership.

21                  I do want to say that the response 

22           time from yourself and the administration has 

23           been excellent so far, and that's a clear 

24           sign of your desire, and your agency heads, 


                                                                   31

 1           to work with us.  So I want to congratulate 

 2           you so far on the rapid response that you've 

 3           given to me and your administration has given 

 4           to people in my office with issues that we've 

 5           had.

 6                  Now, one question -- two -- a couple 

 7           of questions I have for you.  The first one 

 8           is you know that our hospitals are in dire 

 9           need of resources.  We need a distressed 

10           hospitals fund more than ever.  Can you 

11           explain why you oppose directing revenue to 

12           the fund?  And it is illegal for the state to 

13           intercept the city's sales taxes?

14                  MAYOR ADAMS:  And that's so important.  

15           And first of all, thank you for your kind 

16           words.  You can expect that.  That is how we 

17           are going to run this administration.  

18           Cities are made up of agencies, and if our 

19           agencies are not responding to the needs of 

20           our local electeds, then we're never going to 

21           deal with inequalities and the 

22           ineffectiveness of how we run a city of this 

23           magnitude.  

24                  With the hospital distress fund, we 


                                                                   32

 1           pay into that fund, Senator, yet we have not 

 2           received one dollar to the distressed 

 3           hospitals here in our city.  It is unfair.  

 4           New York City pays into the fund, the dollars 

 5           go outside the city.  We know that here in 

 6           New York City, places like the Bronx and 

 7           Queens, they were the epicenters of 

 8           COVID-19 -- and our hospitals, we need the 

 9           resources here.  And I think right now it's 

10           unfair and I believe that we should require 

11           that those dollars come into the areas where 

12           you are pulling those tax dollars from.  And 

13           we're not receiving any dollars from that 

14           hospital distress fund, and it's just unfair.

15                  SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:  Okay, thank you.  

16                  Now, Mayor Adams, I know that 

17           generational wealth, especially in Black and 

18           brown communities, is something that you've 

19           talked about for some time now.  But we 

20           have -- you know, you've opposed the existing 

21           tax lien sales system, and you indicated it 

22           does threaten generational wealth.  So what 

23           is the city's alternative plan for these tax 

24           liens and what if any revenue impacts will 


                                                                   33

 1           result from the change in the tax sale 

 2           system?  

 3                  MAYOR ADAMS:  A great question.  And 

 4           we're looking to evaluate that system.  I 

 5           have brought together my team to talk about 

 6           the unfairness of that system currently.  

 7           We've had cases that I advocated for while I 

 8           was the borough president where people lost 

 9           their properties due to water bills or other 

10           taxes.  And I think the system is currently 

11           unfair.

12                  We're looking to see how do we give 

13           people as much support as possible to hold on 

14           to their properties.  And under those extreme 

15           circumstances, we're looking to put in place 

16           a nonprofit where the nonprofit would hold on 

17           to the property in some way, allow it to go 

18           into our affordable housing crisis that we 

19           are facing.  

20                  But I was not pleased as the borough 

21           president with the system, and I want to make 

22           sure the system is a fair system.  And the 

23           goal is to allow taxpayers and homeowners to 

24           keep their properties, not to take their 


                                                                   34

 1           properties away.

 2                  SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:  Thank you for 

 3           that, Mr. Mayor.

 4                  You know, as a local government 

 5           alumni, Governor Hochul is making attempts to 

 6           repair decades of damage to the New York 

 7           State revenue-sharing program in her proposed 

 8           budget.  Do you think that New York City 

 9           should be treated like every other city in 

10           New York State and included in the revenue 

11           sharing?  

12                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Well, that's something I 

13           want to look at and look into and I could 

14           better answer that for you.  That's a 

15           conversation I've been having with my OMB 

16           director.  We want to see the real benefits 

17           of that, and then we can take it from there.

18                  SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:  That's important 

19           for me to continue that discussion with you 

20           at some point.

21                  Another question I have for you is the 

22           issue of mayoral accountability.  Their 

23           proposal is to give you four years.  If 

24           that's the case, Mayor Adams, what are your 


                                                                   35

 1           priorities to enhance education in New York 

 2           City?  I am in the area with one of the 

 3           highest dropout rates in the entire state, 

 4           one of the highest unemployment rates, and I 

 5           think education goes hand-in-hand to repair 

 6           that problem.  

 7                  So what programs do you have or what 

 8           plan do you have to enhance the level of 

 9           education that kids, especially in my 

10           community, get?  

11                  MAYOR ADAMS:  You know, when I think 

12           about it, Senator, I remember the early 

13           battles we had for the Campaign for Fiscal 

14           Equity, the fights.  We finally were able to 

15           get the money here to the cities.  

16                  When you look at our budget, over 

17           $30 billion we spend on education in New York 

18           City.  And the reality is 65 percent of Black 

19           and brown children never reach proficiency in 

20           this city.  Across the country, 30 percent of 

21           those who are incarcerated are dyslexic.  

22           According to one study, 55 percent of those 

23           in Rikers Island have learning disabilities.  

24                  When you look at the fact that if we 


                                                                   36

 1           don't educate, we will incarcerate -- and I 

 2           need the time to turn around a school system 

 3           that has failed New Yorkers in general, but 

 4           specifically Black and brown communities.  We 

 5           know what's happening in the Bronx and what's 

 6           happening in other parts of our city, and I 

 7           want to zero in on that.  What does it look 

 8           like?  

 9                  Number one, education is not K through 

10           12.  Education is from the time the mother 

11           carries that baby, giving her the support, 

12           the right nutrition, the right support that 

13           she needs, all the way through careers.  And 

14           we want to turn that around.  We want to make 

15           sure that we give our children the 

16           inside-the-classroom support, look at CTE 

17           programs, bringing in our industries to 

18           ensure that children are ready to fill some 

19           of the jobs as we see our city continue to 

20           evolve.  Dealing with some of the mental 

21           health issues that our young people are 

22           experiencing.  And then identifying the 

23           barriers that's preventing to encourage young 

24           people to learn, putting the resources in our 


                                                                   37

 1           school buildings and making sure that those 

 2           resources are there.  

 3                  And some simple things -- washing 

 4           machines.  I can't tell you how much how many 

 5           children state that they can't make classes 

 6           because they don't have clean clothing.  Or 

 7           food pantries inside our schools -- there's 

 8           so much that we can do differently to bring a 

 9           qualitive environment.  And I need four years 

10           to turn around the school system in the way 

11           we should expect our schools to produce our 

12           children for the future.

13                  Our system is unfair.  We produce an 

14           unfair product every year that our children 

15           graduate.  We must return the joy of learning 

16           in our schools, everything from around 

17           healthy food -- and it's good to speak to a 

18           further -- further plant-forward Senator.  

19           We're going to look at healthy food, a 

20           healthy environment, and make it a safe place 

21           for our children.  

22                  And I need four years, and I really 

23           need your help to give me an opportunity to 

24           finally turn around a school system that has 


                                                                   38

 1           failed children.

 2                  SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:  I couldn't agree 

 3           with you more, Mr. Mayor.

 4                  Now let's talk a little bit about 

 5           housing in the City of New York.  You know, 

 6           the administration has a five-year housing 

 7           plan, and we think the proposed plan would 

 8           have a significant impact.  But does the City 

 9           of New York have a comparable housing plan?

10                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Yes, we do.  I brought 

11           on an amazing housing team.  We're going to 

12           be rolling out the entire housing plan that's 

13           going to include NYCHA and what we want to do 

14           inside NYCHA.  We are putting together a 

15           plan, a $25 billion comprehensive housing 

16           plan that's going to impact affordable 

17           housing throughout this entire city.  

18                  We just announced the appointees 

19           that's part of that team, and we're looking 

20           forward in the next few weeks to roll out the 

21           comprehensive plan that we're putting 

22           together.  

23                  And we believe that we have failed to 

24           look into areas throughout the city, such as 


                                                                   39

 1           rezoning some of these areas that 

 2           historically have been ignored when it comes 

 3           down to affordable housing crises.  The 

 4           affordable housing crisis, it's crucial that 

 5           all of us carry the weight of what we want to 

 6           accomplish inside our housing needs 

 7           throughout the city.

 8                  And so the -- and just to be correct 

 9           in my $25 billion that I stated, the 

10           $25 billion state plan.  We want to build on 

11           the state plan and make sure that we utilize 

12           the dollars that are coming on the state 

13           level.  That plan, we want to complement here 

14           in the city.  

15                  And I have my new housing team that 

16           was put together.  They're going to build on 

17           that plan to make sure that we're prepared 

18           here in the city to deal with the housing 

19           needs and cycle out of the homeless system 

20           that we have in the homeless shelters, 

21           particularly congregate shelters.  Because 

22           children who are in homeless shelters are 

23           less likely to graduate from high school.  

24           And as I've always stated, if you don't 


                                                                   40

 1           educate, you will incarcerate.  

 2                  And we're going to build out a solid 

 3           housing plan and roll that out in the next 

 4           couple of weeks.

 5                  SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:  Well, that's all 

 6           from me, Mr. Mayor.  Thank you so much.  And 

 7           again, I want to reiterate, as chair of 

 8           Cities, you have a partner that will work 

 9           diligently for the lives of the residents of 

10           the City of New York.

11                  Thank you so much.

12                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you.

13                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

14                  Back to the Assembly.  

15                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  While the mayor 

16           was speaking, we were joined by Assemblyman 

17           Weprin, Assemblywoman Kelles, Assemblywoman 

18           Seawright, Assemblyman Cusick.  

19                  And we go to the ranker on Cities, 

20           Assemblyman Mike Reilly, for five minutes.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Although before 

22           Mike starts, let me just read off the 

23           Senators also.  

24                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Sure.


                                                                   41

 1                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Sorry.

 2                  We've been joined by Senator Robert 

 3           Jackson, Senator Cordell Cleare, Senator Sue 

 4           Serino, Senator Shelley Mayer.  I think I've 

 5           gotten all the Senators, thank you.  

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  And I see 

 7           Senator Comrie --

 8                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Senator Leroy Comrie.

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Excuse me, 

10           Senator Leroy Comrie.  How could I forget 

11           you.  Excuse me, Leroy.  Thank you.  

12                  MAYOR ADAMS:  That's my old 

13           neighborhood, Senator Krueger:  South 

14           Jamaica, Queens.

15                  SENATOR COMRIE:  There you go.  Good 

16           morning, Mr. Mayor.  Good morning, everyone.

17                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Good morning.  

18                  We go now to Assemblyman Reilly, five 

19           minutes. 

20                  (Zoom interruptions; pause.)

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN REILLY:  Madam Chair, are 

22           we ready?

23                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Yes.  Yes.  

24           Please proceed.


                                                                   42

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN REILLY:  Thank you.  Thank 

 2           you, Madam Chair.  

 3                  Thank you, Mr. Mayor, for your 

 4           testimony and for appearing here today.  I 

 5           appreciate your candor and your opening 

 6           remarks.

 7                  I wanted to talk to you on something 

 8           that you spoke about with regards to the 

 9           Raise the Age law.  One of the things I've 

10           been talking about and I actually introduced 

11           legislation about was the 16- and 

12           17-year-olds being able to remain in 

13           Youth Part Criminal instead of automatically 

14           going to Family Court.  And one of the things 

15           there is firearms.  And it's -- they're only 

16           allowed to go to Youth -- to be prosecuted in 

17           Youth Part Criminal if they display a 

18           firearm, currently.

19                  One of the things that I think should 

20           be added to that is the mere possession of a 

21           loaded firearm, which would allow district 

22           attorneys to petition to keep it in 

23           Youth Part Criminal Court.  Do you think 

24           that's a minor fix that we can use regarding 


                                                                   43

 1           the gun violence in New York City, especially 

 2           under the state of emergency that the 

 3           Governor announced?

 4                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you for that 

 5           question.  First, I am a strong supporter of 

 6           Raise the Age.  I am a strong supporter of 

 7           Raise the Age.  

 8                  We need to tweak that aspect of Raise 

 9           the Age.  And oftentimes people misinterpret 

10           how important that tweak is.  If you are 

11           stating that a child that is considered for 

12           Raise the Age carries a gun but does not 

13           display that gun, then they're treated in 

14           Family Court.  That is a problem.  Similar to 

15           what many of us are aware of that happened 

16           during the '70s and even early '80s, drug 

17           dealers would have the younger children carry 

18           the drugs because they knew they would be 

19           handled in Family Court.  They are doing that 

20           now with guns.  

21                  And I'd like to be very clear.  I 

22           don't know if you can see this, but last year 

23           10 percent of individuals under 18 were 

24           arrested by NYPD with a gun.  Six years ago, 


                                                                   44

 1           that was only 1 percent.  One percent.  That 

 2           is what's happening.  And since 2019, of the 

 3           2500 16-year-olds receiving consideration, 

 4           half were rearrested, and 10 percent for a 

 5           firearm.  

 6                  I mean, sometimes when we hear these 

 7           numbers, they're sort of a vague sound bite.  

 8           No.  These children are being exploited by 

 9           adults to carry guns.  And when you allow 

10           them to go to Family Court and they're 

11           adjudicated in Family Court, then you are 

12           going to constantly have these young people 

13           being exploited.

14                  We had a young person who was arrested 

15           with a gun.  Then while placed on probation 

16           in December, in January he was caught with 

17           another gun, shot himself and a police 

18           officer.  If he did not shoot the police 

19           officer, he would have been treated in 

20           Family Court because that gun was not 

21           exposed.  

22                  That is a part of the bill that we 

23           need to tweak.

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN REILLY:  Thank you, 


                                                                   45

 1           Mr. Mayor.

 2                  So switching gears a little, I want to 

 3           talk about mayoral control of the schools.  I 

 4           know that we're discussing extending it for 

 5           four years.  I'm more in line with three 

 6           years, because I think that should be -- and 

 7           it's regardless of who is mayor.  I support 

 8           mayoral control, I just think there's always 

 9           room to reevaluate and tweak, and we've seen 

10           that over the years, especially during my 

11           time as a member of the Community Education 

12           Council for District 31 in Staten Island.  

13                  But one of the things that I've been 

14           trying to advocate to change in mayoral 

15           control is increased parent engagement.  And 

16           that involves maybe the PEP members having 

17           more parents assigned.  And additionally, I 

18           would like to remove the ability for the 

19           appointing authority to automatically remove 

20           a PEP member.  I think that if we allow only 

21           to remove a PEP member for cause, that will 

22           make sure that when they're voting on the 

23           proposals by the mayor and the chancellor, 

24           regardless of who that is, the merits of that 


                                                                   46

 1           plan will stand a vote.  Not necessarily 

 2           because there's maybe some arm-twisting 

 3           because of the person who appointed you.

 4                  Could you touch on that?

 5                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Yeah, I am fully 

 6           supportive of parent engagement.  That was my 

 7           number-one complaint about mayoral control, 

 8           is the lack of engagement with parents and 

 9           having them have input.  

10                  That is why I was really proud of 

11           bringing on Commissioner -- I'm sorry, 

12           Chancellor David Banks.  When I attended what 

13           David Banks did in the Eagle Academy -- and I 

14           used to go to his PTA meetings, and I would 

15           see standing room only.  He did not build a 

16           system that was centered around the -- what 

17           the administrators wanted, he built a system 

18           that was centered around parents.  And I 

19           believe that's what we must do with mayoral 

20           accountability.

21                  But I want to be clear that I need to 

22           be held responsible for improving our 

23           schools.  And it's challenging to do so 

24           without having the four-year period that's 


                                                                   47

 1           needed.  And you don't have to feel as though 

 2           you need a piece of legislation to say that 

 3           Eric is not going to listen to your input and 

 4           your consultation on what's happening in your 

 5           particular school districts, because that is 

 6           not the case.

 7                  The goal is to hear from parents, to 

 8           hear from those lawmakers that are receiving 

 9           input from parents, and build a school system 

10           that's responsive to that.  And I need four 

11           years.  I need four years to accomplish this.  

12           I saw what happened when I was in Albany, and 

13           I saw what happened this year.  Every two 

14           years you're trying to figure out and plan 

15           forward on what to do.  We can't go back to 

16           the old system, and we need to hold the mayor 

17           of the City of New York responsible for 

18           educating our children.

19                  Parent feedback is important, we're 

20           going to seek that.  And I was very clear 

21           with my chancellor, and we're going to get 

22           that feedback from our parents.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN REILLY:  Thank you, 

24           Mr. Mayor.  Thank you, Chair.


                                                                   48

 1                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

 2                  We've been joined by Assemblyman 

 3           McDonald and Assemblywoman González-Rojas.

 4                  And back to the Senate.

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

 6           much.  And we will next up be the chair of 

 7           the Local Governments Committee, Jim 

 8           Gaughran.

 9                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Thank you, 

10           Madam Chair.  

11                  And thank you very much, Mr. Mayor.  I 

12           do have to say, as a Senator from Long 

13           Island, I find both the tone and the initial 

14           agenda of your administration very 

15           refreshing, and I think many of the issues 

16           that you've raised -- and especially here 

17           today -- are not only regional issues but 

18           statewide issues as well.

19                  So I guess I want to start with 

20           criminal justice and your opening remarks 

21           referencing that the problem has many rivers 

22           that we have to deal with.  So one of those 

23           rivers -- and you -- when you referenced the 

24           bail reform law, I think it's clear you're 


                                                                   49

 1           talking about targeted amendments.  You're 

 2           not talking about repealing the law, you 

 3           believe in the underlying changes that were 

 4           made to make sure that we don't have two 

 5           different systems of criminal justice based 

 6           on the particular wealth or lack of wealth of 

 7           the defendant.

 8                  Would that be fair to say?

 9                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Yes.  That's a question 

10           you're asking, correct?

11                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Yes.  You support 

12           the underlying criminal justice reforms that 

13           we passed but feel that we need to make, as 

14           you referred to them, targeted amendments.  

15           That we should no longer continue to have, 

16           you know, two different systems of justice as 

17           it relates to somebody's ability to pay.

18                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Well said.  Not only do 

19           I support it, sir, I advocated for it.  As a 

20           sergeant, I went to Rockefeller Plaza and 

21           protested against the Rockefeller Drug Law.  

22           Then I went to Albany as a Senator and I 

23           cosponsored the bill to repeal the law.

24                  This is my lifework.  And so I'm 


                                                                   50

 1           pleased with what the Assembly and the Senate 

 2           did of making this system that was unfair, to 

 3           make it a fair system.  Tweaking it saying we 

 4           did the justice part, now let's address the 

 5           public safety part.  That's where I think we 

 6           went wrong, and I think we can tweak it and 

 7           make it right and get what we're desiring.  

 8                  Because we're doing our job here in 

 9           the city.  We removed 6,000 illegal guns off 

10           the street last year, close to 400 this year 

11           while I've been in office.  We can't continue 

12           to allow these rivers of violence to 

13           continue.  Let's remove the illegal guns and 

14           let's remove the small percentage of people 

15           who are carrying out the act.  That's what 

16           we're missing, and that is what we have to 

17           zero in on with precision policing.

18                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  So along those 

19           lines -- and I think it would be fair to say 

20           whether it's the State Legislature or it's 

21           our Congress -- anytime you pass major 

22           reforms of this magnitude, you constantly 

23           have to look back and see where changes 

24           perhaps need to be made.


                                                                   51

 1                  So specifically on the issue of bail, 

 2           what would you think of some revisions that 

 3           would give judges the discretion to simply 

 4           remand somebody based on some set of 

 5           extraordinary circumstances -- concern for 

 6           the community, perhaps the individual 

 7           themselves really should be given the 

 8           opportunity for drug treatment, a diversion 

 9           program -- if we gave judges a remand 

10           provision for certain circumstances, and we'd 

11           have to define that, and we ask the judge 

12           to -- they'd have to put on the record what 

13           those circumstances are very specifically, 

14           had it reviewed subsequently in a quick 

15           period of time, perhaps by another judge.

16                  But just based on the facts and 

17           circumstances of a particular situation, 

18           giving that judge some narrow discretion.  

19           What would you think of something like that?

20                  MAYOR ADAMS:  And this is in pieces, 

21           when we talk about some of the great reforms 

22           that the lawmakers did in Albany.

23                  So let's just first deal with the bail 

24           reform.  The general premise of the bail 


                                                                   52

 1           reform is something that I was proud of to 

 2           see accomplished, because as I stated, it's 

 3           my lifework.  Two areas I think we need to 

 4           look at.  One, discovery.  The discovery area 

 5           is crucial.

 6                  When I spoke to Eric Gonzalez, the DA 

 7           in Brooklyn, he took down three major gangs, 

 8           violent gangs that were participating with 

 9           14-, 15- and 16-year-olds who had several 

10           homicides.  He turned over 40,000 pieces of 

11           evidence.  If he would have missed three or 

12           four pieces of evidence, that case would 

13           have -- could have been dismissed.  All of 

14           the investigation, taking violent people off 

15           the street -- if he would have missed three 

16           or four pieces of paper out of those 40,000 

17           documents, that case could have been 

18           dismissed.  That is just not right.

19                  And then when we look at judges can't 

20           have the power of discretion -- let's remove 

21           the cash bail system, because one should not 

22           be able to get out of jail just because you 

23           can pay bail.  Let's take that away.  But 

24           judges should look at the case that's in 


                                                                   53

 1           front of them and say, this person has two 

 2           gun arrests, two shootings, and he's 

 3           continually saying to the people of the city 

 4           that I don't care about the safety of you -- 

 5           that judge should have the right to make the 

 6           discretion that this person should be held.

 7                  And by doing so, we should evaluate 

 8           with transparency if there's a pattern of 

 9           judges who are abusing that discretion.  

10           Let's retrain them, let's have the chief 

11           judge look at their actions and make sure 

12           it's done right, because we can't go 

13           backwards.

14                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Thank you, 

15           Mr. Mayor.  That was very well said.

16                  Just switching to another topic, if I 

17           may.  You know, we need to do much more in 

18           this state to provide affordable housing, 

19           both in the city and out on -- in the 

20           suburbs.  However, there is a proposal in the 

21           Governor's budget that would, in effect, I 

22           believe, take away the ability of local 

23           officials to have any sort of discretionary 

24           review or hearing as it relates to requiring 


                                                                   54

 1           accessory dwelling units to be built on 

 2           single-family lots.  

 3                  And, you know, many of my communities 

 4           are already doing this.  But one of the 

 5           questions I have -- and, you know, perhaps it 

 6           can't be answered here, it may need a deeper 

 7           dive.  But one of the concerns I have is that 

 8           this law in itself may take away the ability 

 9           of New York City's Uniform Land Use Review 

10           procedure to have any powers at all -- take 

11           away, you know, the ability of local 

12           community boards and members of the City 

13           Council to really have any discretion on some 

14           of these applications.

15                  So I guess I would ask if you could 

16           look at that or if you have an answer now.  

17           And also perhaps maybe there are ways that we 

18           in the state can incentivize the city and our 

19           local governments to provide some of this 

20           type of housing as well.  What are your 

21           thoughts on that?

22                  MAYOR ADAMS:  I'm a big local 

23           government guy.  You know, there's not a 

24           one-size-fits all to our local 


                                                                   55

 1           municipalities.  And we are in a housing 

 2           crisis.  I am in full support of how do we 

 3           continue to expand our housing stock.  And I 

 4           think it's crucial that we give the power to 

 5           local government to make these 

 6           determinations, decisions.  We saw after the 

 7           recent hurricane what happened, the flooding 

 8           that took place, particularly in Queens and 

 9           Staten Island.  

10                  I think we could do it in a smarter 

11           way, we can build smarter.  And we could make 

12           sure that we can address both ends:  How do 

13           we build for the future and our environmental 

14           issues, but also how we deal with the housing 

15           crisis that we're facing.  And local 

16           governments can make those decisions in a 

17           smart way.

18                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Thank you very 

19           much.  And one other question.  

20                  You know, one of the concerns that we 

21           have with this budget that we're grappling 

22           with is that our federal government has still 

23           failed to give us back our state and local 

24           tax deduction, SALT.  You know, it's killing 


                                                                   56

 1           my constituents on Long Island with our high 

 2           property taxes.  I know it has an impact in 

 3           the city and I hear that, you know, you're 

 4           looking to help property taxpayers there as 

 5           well.

 6                  What can we do collectively -- those 

 7           of us who represent areas outside the city, 

 8           you as mayor and officials in the city -- to 

 9           really push Congress to get this done?  

10           Because it almost seems like it's no longer 

11           top on the agenda down in Washington, D.C.

12                  MAYOR ADAMS:  And we're talking about 

13           SALT, is that what you're talking about, 

14           correct?

15                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Yes, SALT.

16                  MAYOR ADAMS:  You know, people often 

17           talk about what the federal government did 

18           for us -- which I want to thank our New York 

19           congressional delegation for doing so with 

20           the stimulus.  But if they really want to 

21           stimulate the economy of New York State, 

22           bring us back SALT.  

23                  We need SALT.  SALT was a penalty 

24           towards New York City and New York State.  We 


                                                                   57

 1           need to have SALT.  That would give an 

 2           immediate boost to our economy.  And I push 

 3           back against those who state that it is a tax 

 4           break for just the affluent and rich.  No, it 

 5           is not.  It is for the blue-collar, middle- 

 6           income homeowners.  SALT had a major impact 

 7           for me and I'm pretty sure not only on 

 8           Long Island, but if you go to areas 

 9           throughout the entire New York City region, 

10           SALT had a devastating impact on us.  

11                  We need to have a unified voice with 

12           those other states that were impacted, and we 

13           need to put SALT back on the agenda.  It is 

14           something that I think is even more important 

15           than the stimulus that came around.  The real 

16           stimulus for us is to have SALT repealed.

17                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Yes, I agree.  

18           Thank you so much, Mr. Mayor.

19                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

20                  I assume that people have seen that 

21           the clock -- we're working with the tech 

22           folks to try and figure out why the clock is 

23           partially blocked.  But hopefully you can 

24           continue to see it enough.  Certainly you'll 


                                                                   58

 1           see it when it goes down to zero.

 2                  We now go to Assemblyman Ra, the 

 3           ranker on Ways and Means, for five minutes.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Thank you, Chair.

 5                  Good morning, Mayor.  Good to have you 

 6           with us. 

 7                  Just -- I wanted to get into a little 

 8           bit more of what Senator Gaughran had started 

 9           with, just more on the criminal justice side.  

10           But I do want to thank you for your 

11           leadership already, pushing for more judicial 

12           discretion.  I think it's important and I 

13           hope that, you know, we'll be able to 

14           continue those discussions and move in that 

15           direction, so I thank you for that.  

16                  You know, obviously we're dealing with 

17           the confluence of a lot of things in the city 

18           and this -- crime increases and all of that.  

19           So one of the things that obviously has 

20           gotten a lot of attention is the new DA in 

21           Manhattan.  I know that some of -- I hear 

22           somebody typing very loudly.  I'm sorry.

23                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Everybody mute, 

24           make sure you mute yourself.  Thank you.


                                                                   59

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  So I'm just 

 2           wondering -- I mean, in your conversations 

 3           especially within the police department, A, 

 4           do you think that this is causing some level 

 5           of just -- a lack of accountability in the 

 6           public to think they're going to get away 

 7           with certain types of crimes?  And how does 

 8           that impact policing, in your view?

 9                  MAYOR ADAMS:  District Attorney Bragg, 

10           he and I had several conversations and, you 

11           know, I want to, respectfully, not go into 

12           some of the private conversations that we 

13           have had over the last few weeks.

14                  I believe that we're going to be 

15           partners with the other district attorneys.  

16           I met with all five of my district attorneys 

17           and I believe we're going to be partners in 

18           dealing with issues of crime.  I'm happy to 

19           see some of the items he listed, particularly 

20           around gun crimes, and how his office is 

21           going to move forward.

22                  But, you know, you touched on 

23           something that I really need for all of us to 

24           embrace.  Look at what's happening in 


                                                                   60

 1           San Francisco.  The business community is 

 2           leaving San Francisco.  We're seeing the 

 3           entire highest -- one of the highest-tax 

 4           areas, due to real estate, is being 

 5           abandoned.  What's happening in Chicago -- 

 6           when I spoke with her in Washington, D.C., 

 7           several weeks ago, she talked about the need 

 8           to deal with the violence.  

 9                  And we can't allow this to happen in 

10           New York.  And I know people sometimes don't 

11           connect some of the offenses that are 

12           happening that they can materialize into 

13           serious problems, but it can.  We can't have 

14           a city where out drugstores and bodegas and 

15           restaurants are leaving because people are 

16           walking into the stores, taking whatever they 

17           want on the shelves and walking out, and then 

18           giving it to a criminal enterprise that's 

19           selling it on the internet.

20                  That can't happen.  We can't have 

21           people on our subway system who are not 

22           receiving care.  And they are creating an 

23           environment where people are afraid to ride 

24           the subway system because they think they're 


                                                                   61

 1           going to be shoved to the tracks.

 2                  If we stop the basic principles that 

 3           allowed us to be one of the safest big cities 

 4           in America, it is going to erode our 

 5           financial base and people are not going to 

 6           want to work in our city and do business in 

 7           our city.  And it's all connected.  Those are 

 8           the many rivers that I talk about that feed 

 9           the sea of violence.  

10                  And we don't have to be heavy-handed, 

11           but we have to be clear:  There's expected 

12           behavior to be in a city like New York, and 

13           it's something that we're going to make sure 

14           we carry out.  

15                  And that is what my police 

16           commissioner, Police Commissioner Sewell and 

17           her team is clear on.  Our mental health 

18           professionals that are partnering with us to 

19           deal with the homeless crisis, particularly 

20           those with mental health issues.  And we're 

21           going to send the right message in my grocery 

22           stores, my supermarkets.  People are not 

23           going to force stores to close and leave the 

24           city because they believe they're going to 


                                                                   62

 1           disrespect the right of those low-wage 

 2           employees to be employed in these stores.  

 3           And that is the message that we're going to 

 4           send in this city.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Thank you, Mayor. 

 6                  And I have to say, as a representative 

 7           of Nassau County, we are very proud of your 

 8           new police commissioner, and I commend you on 

 9           that choice.

10                  Just lastly -- I only have a few 

11           seconds -- but, you know, you mentioned how 

12           this is all related.  And I think anything 

13           that we can do on the public safety side and 

14           certainly continuing the conversation on the 

15           financial side to make sure that New York 

16           City is thriving -- it benefits obviously not 

17           just New York City, but us on Long Island and 

18           the entire state.

19                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Well said.

20                  And the images that come from New York 

21           are cascaded throughout this entire country.  

22           And if people see a total disregard for the 

23           basic rights of our fellow New Yorkers, that 

24           is the image that's going to cascade 


                                                                   63

 1           throughout this entire country.  And we can't 

 2           go backwards in heavy-handed policing, but we 

 3           can't go backwards to 2,000 homicides a year, 

 4           98,000 robberies and the equivalent amount of 

 5           felonious assaults.  

 6                  We're moving forward as a city, and we 

 7           can do it together with the proper balance of 

 8           public safety and justice.  That's the 

 9           prerequisite to prosperity, and I believe 

10           that and I'm pretty sure all of us on here 

11           believe that.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Thank you.

13                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

14                  We've been joined by Assemblymembers 

15           Dilan, Meeks, Friend and Taylor.

16                  And the clock is fixed, and we go back 

17           to the Senate.

18                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

19           much.

20                  And we are going to hear from 

21           Jamaal Bailey, our chair of Codes.

22                  SENATOR BAILEY:  Thank you, 

23           Madam Chair.

24                  And Mr. Mayor, good to see you.  Thank 


                                                                   64

 1           you for testifying.  And let me first just 

 2           say thank you for your responsiveness to me, 

 3           to my team.  You and your team are incredibly 

 4           responsive anytime we reach out, and it's 

 5           grateful, especially in the wake of the Bronx 

 6           fire and so many other things.  So I just 

 7           want to thank you for your consistent 

 8           responsiveness.

 9                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you.

10                  SENATOR BAILEY:  You know, as the 

11           chair of the Codes Committee -- and we've had 

12           some brief conversations about this, the 

13           conversation about the justice reforms, the 

14           bail reform, the discovery reform -- I am of 

15           the opinion that we need to continue to have 

16           these conversations on a fact-based level.  

17                  When we refer to some of the judges 

18           that you've spoken about in the past, about a 

19           third of the judges that have not set bail or 

20           remand on the remandable offenses, I think 

21           that we have to be very surgical in the 

22           conversations that we're having as related to 

23           the justice reforms that we're having, as 

24           opposed to just looking at a headline and 


                                                                   65

 1           saying that we should make wholesale changes.

 2                  I look forward to a continuous 

 3           dialogue with you in that respect, because I 

 4           don't think there is a -- there is one point 

 5           that we can look at and say, This is the 

 6           fault of a single justice reform.  

 7                  As opposed to that long ramble, I 

 8           would ask you, Mr. Mayor, is there one 

 9           particular area that you -- that you see as 

10           the largest problem in the justice reforms?  

11           Is that bail, is that discovery, and if so, 

12           why?

13                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Yeah.  No, thank you for 

14           that.  And, you know, let -- and I want to be 

15           clear.  What you said, Senator Bailey, is 

16           just so important.

17                  People have hijacked the conversation 

18           of -- particularly when it comes down to the 

19           Speaker and the Senate leader.  These are not 

20           former colleagues, these are friends.  And 

21           you know, when I could come to Albany with a 

22           list of a hundred things, and one thing we 

23           disagree on -- darn it, that's a home run.  

24           It's a home run.


                                                                   66

 1                  Both Andrea and Carl are friends of 

 2           mine that -- we want the same thing.  And 

 3           when you look at in the Bronx, where 

 4           30 percent of the shootings are taking place, 

 5           those beautiful children of yours, you want 

 6           them to be safe.  You don't want them to be 

 7           the 11-month-old baby that was shot in the 

 8           head in the Bronx.

 9                  And we have the same focus.  And we 

10           don't want to create a criminal justice 

11           system that criminalizes Black and brown boys 

12           throughout their entire career.  And so if we 

13           zero in and tweak just the areas that I have 

14           fought for all my life -- we have to look at 

15           discovery.  The DAs are saying, Eric, we're 

16           going to have to dismiss some substantial 

17           cases.  There was a rape case in the Bronx, 

18           the person was a potentially serial rapist, 

19           that we had to dismiss because of potential 

20           discovery issues.  And if we don't tweak 

21           those areas, we could lose some major 

22           investigations of crime.

23                  Second, Raise the Age.  We have to 

24           look at the possession of a gun.  That 


                                                                   67

 1           19-year-old girl that was shot in the 

 2           Burger King, was shot by an adult -- but 

 3           that's still a gun.  The young man who shot 

 4           the police officer weeks while I was on the 

 5           job, he was in possession of a gun and he 

 6           just got arrested for possession of a gun.

 7                  If we don't look at the fact if you 

 8           carry a gun, it needs to be treated as the 

 9           same if you expose it or not.  We shouldn't 

10           wait for you to take it out and shoot someone 

11           because you carry them.

12                  Those are the areas that need to be 

13           tweaked.  And that's not saying take away the 

14           great work that you have done, because it was 

15           done.  It was commendable.  I wish I was 

16           there to finally see my lifework materialize.  

17           But we've got to focus on those areas that 

18           need to be tweaked.

19                  SENATOR BAILEY:  Thank you, 

20           Mr. Mayor --

21                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Mr. Mayor, I hate 

22           to be the first one to cut you off today, but 

23           the clock is back visually and hit zero.

24                  Thank you.  Helene?  


                                                                   68

 1                  SENATOR BAILEY:  Madam -- Madam Chair, 

 2           if I just may respond really, really 

 3           briefly --

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  No, you can't, 

 5           I'm sorry, Jamaal.

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  It's a long 

 7           day.

 8                  SENATOR BAILEY:  Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

 9                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you, Senator.

10                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We've been 

11           joined by Assemblyman Aubry, Assemblyman 

12           Sayegh, Assemblywoman Byrne -- excuse me, 

13           Assemblyman Byrne, and Assemblywoman Hyndman.

14                  And we go to Assemblyman Fall, three 

15           minutes.

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN FALL:  Thank you, 

17           Madam Chair.

18                  Thank you, Mayor Adams, for joining 

19           us.  Before I get to my questions, a few 

20           weeks ago everyone was aware of the COVID 

21           surge we had across the city, especially on 

22           Staten Island.  I reached out to you and your 

23           office, you provided my office with thousands 

24           of COVID test kits, and I just want to thank 


                                                                   69

 1           you for your help on that matter.

 2                  Just switching gears to 

 3           infrastructure, I just wanted to quickly talk  

 4           about, you know, what happened during 

 5           Hurricane Ida.  We saw a level of flooding on 

 6           Staten Island and across the city that was 

 7           unprecedented.  Lost a lot of lives.  Many 

 8           experienced property damage that burned a 

 9           hole through their pockets, which includes 

10           people being displaced from their homes.  I 

11           personally drive through my district during 

12           heavy rains to see catch basins not 

13           maintained, which results in the levels of 

14           flooding that we saw during Ida.

15                  So what can I tell my constituents 

16           about your plan to address future flooding, 

17           especially when it comes to upgrading DEP 

18           infrastructure?

19                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you, Assemblyman.  

20           And, you know, I too traveled out to 

21           Staten Island the day after the storm, met 

22           with Senator Diane Savino, moved around 

23           Staten Island to look at some of the damage 

24           to be on the ground.


                                                                   70

 1                  And, you know, many of you have talked 

 2           about the responsiveness of my administration 

 3           because, you know, our motto is clear:  GSD.  

 4           Get stuff done.  It's just taking too long to 

 5           get stuff done in government.

 6                  First, we need to do this in layers.  

 7           We need to look at what are the short-term 

 8           things that we could do.  Let's just clean 

 9           the basins.  Let's just make sure that the 

10           water and the infrastructure we do have in 

11           place is doing its basic job.  And we have 

12           not done that enough.  We need to do it 

13           periodically.  It's something that I 

14           partnered, when I was in the borough 

15           president's office, of Adopt-A-Basin for 

16           people on the block, having DEP go out and do 

17           periodic checks.  Let's just make sure the 

18           system is doing what it's supposed to do.

19                  Next, let's use some of the 

20           infrastructure dollars that we're receiving 

21           from the federal government to do -- not only 

22           build out our infrastructure and be ready for 

23           the future -- we just brought on our 

24           environmental team that is going to be 


                                                                   71

 1           looking at how do we start building out for 

 2           the future of -- around our environmental 

 3           issues.  

 4                  And what that looks like is building 

 5           on our sewer systems for the future.  We need 

 6           to really look at doing a pause on some of 

 7           these projects that's taking place now, 

 8           Assemblyman, and say are they prepared for 

 9           the future or are we building them for the 

10           past.  We need to start retrofitting these 

11           buildouts for the future, and then borough by 

12           borough we're going to come up with a clear 

13           plan, because Staten Island is unique to 

14           Brooklyn and other areas of how we're going 

15           to do specifically for what's happening in 

16           the various boroughs in the city.

17                  ASSEMBLYMAN FALL:  Thank you for that.  

18           I only have 20 seconds, but I just wanted to 

19           quickly highlight -- or just a couple of 

20           comments.  

21                  If you could please make sure that 

22           your staff expedite the work that's going on 

23           at Stapleton Houses so folks can get their 

24           cooking gas back on, that would be great.  


                                                                   72

 1                  Really want to have your support on 

 2           the Staten Island bus rapid transit at the 

 3           state level.  And also want to invite you to 

 4           Richmond University Center so you could 

 5           better understand some of the issues that's 

 6           going on over there.

 7                  And thank you for your leadership 

 8           during this time.

 9                  MAYOR ADAMS:  We'll get out there next 

10           week, brother.  I look forward to do it.  And 

11           NYCHA is facing a $40 billion capital 

12           shortfall, and bureaucracy is in the way.  

13           We're going to be rolling out our NYCHA 

14           staff, because we should not find out about 

15           the tragedies after they get on the front 

16           page of the paper.  And I believe an ongoing 

17           conversation with you is crucial.

18                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  

19           Thank you both.  Back to the Senate.

20                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  To Senator Diane 

21           Savino.

22                  SENATOR SAVINO:  Thank you, 

23           Senator Krueger.

24                  Good morning, Mayor Adams.  Welcome to 


                                                                   73

 1           Tin Cup Day in Albany -- 

 2                  MAYOR ADAMS:  How you doing today?  

 3                  SENATOR SAVINO:  -- although certainly 

 4           it's not your first experience here.

 5                  So I only get three minutes; I'm going 

 6           to talk fast.  As you know -- first, I want 

 7           to thank you and your administration for your 

 8           amazing attentiveness, not just to myself and 

 9           my staff but my constituents.  It's a 

10           refreshing change, certainly, and I know the 

11           minute I reach out to you or anybody on your 

12           team, you immediately get back to us.

13                  I want to, you know, just echo my 

14           support for your requested changes to not 

15           just Raise the Age, but the change to the 

16           criminal justice reforms that you're asking 

17           for.  You know -- probably better than any 

18           mayor who's sat in this chair that's asking 

19           us to do things -- how difficult it is to 

20           move legislation to change legislation.  

21                  Your experience as a member of the 

22           Senate -- when you walked in the door 

23           15 years ago, you were one of the leading 

24           members who taught us how to implement the 


                                                                   74

 1           anti-gun-violence programs.  The SNUG program 

 2           was a creation of Eric Adams.  You were one 

 3           of the leading members who led the fight to 

 4           reform the Rockefeller Drug Laws.  So you 

 5           understand probably better than any mayor of 

 6           the City of New York how we have to reform 

 7           legislation with precision.

 8                  And so I don't think people understand 

 9           you're not suggesting that we repeal what the 

10           Legislature did, but that we look at 

11           legislation, as we are required to from time 

12           to time, and tweak it.  

13                  So towards that end, Assemblymember 

14           Cusick and I are introducing legislation to 

15           reform Raise the Age, to address those gun 

16           charges that you eloquently pointed out don't 

17           belong in Family Court.  We're working with 

18           the DAs.  

19                  I'm also introducing legislation -- 

20           after having worked with a CEO of the HHC, 

21           Mitchell Katz, and Kathy Wylde -- to address 

22           the challenges our chronically mentally ill 

23           homeless population, who cycle in and out of 

24           our emergency rooms, wind up in our subway 


                                                                   75

 1           tunnels in chronic mental health crisis.  We 

 2           need to change the definition under mental 

 3           health law of what is a person who is 

 4           incapable of taking care of themselves and a 

 5           danger to themself or others.

 6                  So working in that precision capacity, 

 7           we're going to try and provide you the 

 8           tools -- also addressing the shortfall in 

 9           funding, so that you can have the money you 

10           need to have mental health beds in the HHC 

11           and the City of New York.  

12                  I've only got 48 seconds left, so 

13           again we stand here as partners with you, I'm 

14           very excited.  I believe you should have four 

15           years of mayoral control, and I support that.  

16           And of course as always, we are your friends, 

17           your colleagues.  I'm very excited to see you 

18           as the mayor of the City of New York.

19                  MAYOR ADAMS:  You know, thank you so 

20           much, Senator.  And, you know, I joked on the 

21           campaign trail that I felt like Anthony Fauci 

22           when they stated, you know, where was he 

23           during the COVID.

24                  And when I hear people who are new to 


                                                                   76

 1           this advocacy, this is my lifework.  And, you 

 2           know, when I was up in Albany with my 

 3           colleagues, you know, we sat down and my team 

 4           came to me to ask for that proper balance of 

 5           justice and public safety.  And that's what 

 6           I'm doing now.  We heard and we did an 

 7           amazing job around the justice aspect of it.  

 8                  But public safety is crucial.  And if 

 9           someone that is a former colleague, that was 

10           a trusted former colleague on these law 

11           enforcement issues from the days of 

12           100 Blacks in Law Enforcement, from the days 

13           of advocacy for prison reform, visiting the 

14           prisons up in Albany -- if a former colleague 

15           is saying, hey, you guys did a great job but 

16           there's areas we need to tweak, we should not 

17           feel as though that this an attack.  This is 

18           love, to make sure that we don't allow the 

19           small number of people who commit crimes to 

20           endanger our communities.

21                  So some people would say, 

22           Senator Savino, that 95 percent of the people 

23           who commit crimes are not impacted or they 

24           won't come back and do something again.  But 


                                                                   77

 1           what about that 5 percent?  That 5 percent, 

 2           those are the people who are wreaking havoc 

 3           in our cities.  Five percent comes to 

 4           thousands.  You know, there's a small number 

 5           of people that are committing crimes in the 

 6           city, and they're slipping through the 

 7           cracks.  And a simple tweak would help us 

 8           through this problem.

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you, 

10           Mayor.  I imagine there will be some more 

11           opportunities to expand on this topic based 

12           on the number of witnesses that are here.

13                  I wanted to just mention that we've 

14           been joined while the hearing began by 

15           Assemblywoman Nolan, Assemblyman Otis, 

16           Assemblywoman Wallace.

17                  And we're going to go to Assemblyman 

18           Schmitt for three minutes.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN SCHMITT:  Thank you, 

20           Chairwoman.

21                  Mr. Mayor, I represent the 

22           Hudson Valley.  A lot of my constituents 

23           commute to the city or utilize the city for 

24           medical services, et cetera, and the 


                                                                   78

 1           overarching concern that I hear are the 

 2           concerns about safety.

 3                  We've heard some of your comments 

 4           already, and we know there's resistance from 

 5           some in the Legislature to move forward with 

 6           badly needed changes on the law and order and 

 7           safety side.  What immediate steps are you 

 8           taking or can you take to reassure my 

 9           constituents and the millions of folks who 

10           visit New York City -- before the Legislature 

11           acts -- that safety is going to improve, that 

12           they will feel safe no matter what they need 

13           to do, whatever their business is in the City 

14           of New York?

15                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you so much for 

16           that.  

17                  First, as I stated -- and I really 

18           need for us to, you know, lean into the 

19           analogy that I use of many rivers.  Those 

20           rivers feed into the sea of violence.  

21                  We need help on the federal level.  We 

22           have to stop the flow of guns.  You can't 

23           remove 6,000 guns from the city and still 

24           have an endless flow of guns.  It appears as 


                                                                   79

 1           though with every one we remove, five seem to 

 2           come in.  

 3                  And that's why I brought the president 

 4           here in the city, so that he could sit down 

 5           and see what we're doing around the 

 6           partnership with city, state and federal 

 7           agencies.  We need a 9/11 type response so 

 8           that we can bring those agencies together 

 9           with information sharing and stop the flow.

10                  But then no matter what the other 

11           rivers are doing and how we're able to dam 

12           those rivers, I have the responsibility and 

13           obligation of keeping the people of this city 

14           safe that come here to live or to work, and 

15           that's what I'm going to do.  We're going to 

16           institute my anti-gun unit.  Not anti-crime; 

17           these are not officers that are going out in 

18           plainclothes.  This is an anti-gun unit with 

19           precision policing to zero in on those who 

20           are the known trigger-pullers so we can get 

21           them off our streets.

22                  We're then having a real 

23           partnership -- because I'm pretty sure many 

24           of the people that come from your area, they 


                                                                   80

 1           ride the transportation system -- we're going 

 2           to partner with our mental health 

 3           professionals and our law enforcement 

 4           community to no longer have a policy of 

 5           allowing people to be on our subway system 

 6           when they can't take care of themselves and 

 7           they're dangerous to themselves and others.  

 8           That's unacceptable, should have never 

 9           happened, and we're going to make sure they 

10           get the care that they need and deserve.

11                  But we're going to also be upstream 

12           thinkers.  We're going to do precision 

13           resources.  We're finding that there's a 

14           profile to those who are on the pathway to 

15           crime:  Drops out of school, in homeless 

16           shelters, dealing with mental health 

17           illnesses.  So let's not wait for them to 

18           pick up a gun; let's pick up their lives by 

19           giving them the support they need, partnering 

20           with the crisis management team, give them 

21           the resources they need to make this happen.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN SCHMITT:  Thank you.

23                  Real quick, I have a lot of New York 

24           City retirees in my district, very concerned 


                                                                   81

 1           about the changes to their retiree 

 2           healthcare.  They're concerned you haven't 

 3           been able to meet with them.  Can you pledge 

 4           to meet with them and help fix their 

 5           concerns?

 6                  MAYOR ADAMS:  I am surprised that 

 7           anyone would tell you that it's difficult to 

 8           meet with me.  I drive my team crazy, because 

 9           if I'm on the street and someone stops me and 

10           asks me for my cellphone, I give people my 

11           cellphone.  I am an accessible elected.  I 

12           love being around people.  I love hearing 

13           from people.  You can't be a good shepherd if 

14           you're not hanging out with the sheep.

15                  So I look forward to meeting with them 

16           because I can hear from them.  I looked over 

17           the plan, I spoke with my union leaderships 

18           and my director of OMB.  They clearly laid it 

19           out.  I am a retiree.  That plan is my plan.  

20           And so I'm concerned about anything that's 

21           wrong with my healthcare.  You don't become a 

22           civil servant to be a millionaire, you become 

23           a civil servant to have a stable retirement 

24           and live a good life.


                                                                   82

 1                  But I look forward to meeting with 

 2           them, and I think that once they are 

 3           explained the plan, they're going to feel 

 4           more comfortable.  I think we failed in the 

 5           rollout and the explanation.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN SCHMITT:  Thank you.  I'll 

 7           reach out to your team to set that up.

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

 9                  We go back to the Senate.

10                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

11                  We next go to Senator John Liu.

12                  SENATOR LIU:  Thank you, Madam Chair.

13                  Welcome, Mr. Mayor.  You had really 

14           high expectations coming in, and you've been 

15           hitting the ground running.  And you're going 

16           to have to keep running for a while, man.  

17           Good to see you. 

18                  My first question has to do with the 

19           way we run our schools in New York City.  You 

20           mentioned in your testimony that you want 

21           that four-year extension.  My question to you 

22           is, given your concern and many of our 

23           concerns about the lack of parental input in 

24           recent years, do you think that that mayoral 


                                                                   83

 1           accountability should simply be extended 

 2           without changes?

 3                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Yes, I do.  And I know 

 4           people are jaded because of, you know, the 

 5           lack of communication, lack of really having 

 6           engagement.  

 7                  I am asking that -- you know, give me 

 8           the chance to do what I've advocated for.  

 9           And it's difficult to really plan for the 

10           future, that we're unable to know where we 

11           are going to be in the next four years.  

12           There are areas we want to look at and tweak 

13           to make better, and I'm looking to hear from 

14           you on some of those areas.  But we should 

15           never take away the ultimate responsibility 

16           that the mayor should be responsible for 

17           improving our educational system.

18                  SENATOR LIU:  So, Mr. Mayor, you don't 

19           want to be the one to offer the changes, you 

20           want us to tell you what changes we think are 

21           necessary, based on the input that we get 

22           from our constituents, and we'll work 

23           together from there?

24                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Well, I want to hear 


                                                                   84

 1           from you, I want to hear from your overall -- 

 2           based on what you hear from the constituents.  

 3                  But let's be clear, New York City 

 4           residents -- we may have 8.8 million people; 

 5           we have 20 million opinions.  They're not shy 

 6           in telling me where they think things are 

 7           wrong.  And so when we listen to what's 

 8           coming from our lawmakers, based on my 

 9           communication with parents, we will come up 

10           with a good plan.  But it should end with the 

11           mayor being responsible for the school 

12           system.

13                  SENATOR LIU:  Sure.  But that doesn't 

14           necessarily mean that there shouldn't be 

15           improvements made to school governance in 

16           New York City.  Look at what happened in 

17           Chicago.  They went away from mayoral control 

18           and went back to a more -- what they would 

19           call a more democratic system of how to run 

20           our schools.

21                  My question to you is did you ask 

22           Governor Hochul for a three-year extension, 

23           as was reported in some newspapers, and she 

24           said "You can have four"?


                                                                   85

 1                  MAYOR ADAMS:  No.  You know, I don't 

 2           know -- you know, newspapers sometimes report 

 3           what their interpretation of a conversation 

 4           is.  And, you know, I've always had a 

 5           standard -- even when I speak with you, John, 

 6           you know I've never mentioned our private 

 7           conversations.  So it's my belief that 

 8           private conversations should not be put out 

 9           in public.

10                  But I am clear on this.  I want the 

11           responsibility of turning around a school 

12           system that has failed New Yorkers in 

13           general, but specifically Black and brown 

14           children.  It is a stain on our city that 

15           65 percent of Black and brown children don't 

16           meet proficiency every year.  Unacceptable.

17                  SENATOR LIU:  If we need $3 billion 

18           for schools, and according -- if the news 

19           reports are right, I think you should -- I'm 

20           sorry, if we need $4 billion for our schools, 

21           you should ask the Governor for $3 billion 

22           and maybe we'll get four. 

23                  The last comment I will make to you is 

24           that in -- you know, you campaigned -- you 


                                                                   86

 1           left no stone unturned in the city.  And you 

 2           are -- you campaigned in every single 

 3           community.  You're in fact like the first 

 4           Asian American mayor in New York City.

 5                  (Laughter.)

 6                  SENATOR LIU:  So along those veins, I 

 7           would like to encourage you, every time you 

 8           say Black and brown, you can say Black, brown 

 9           and yellow.  It's okay to refer to Asian 

10           Americans as such, because we are a community 

11           of color just as much as anybody else.  Thank 

12           you.

13                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Yes, yes, you are.  And 

14           I thank you.  My support in the Asian 

15           community -- you know, the AAPI has been 

16           amazing for me, and they know I'm going to be 

17           a mayor for this entire city.  I look forward 

18           to it.

19                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  And Senator 

20           Liu, if you want to see the mayor embracing 

21           the Asian community, he was at the Homecrest 

22           Senior Center yesterday for the lunar 

23           celebration, and he was dressed perfectly.  I 

24           was virtual, and he was there.  And he could 


                                                                   87

 1           have been a member; it was hard to tell.

 2                  (Laughter.)

 3                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  So now we go to 

 4           Assemblyman Carroll, three minutes.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN CARROLL:  Thank you, 

 6           Chair Weinstein.  

 7                  And thank you so much, Mr. Mayor.  And 

 8           I want to thank you for sharing your dyslexia 

 9           story.  As somebody who is dyslexic, it was 

10           so refreshing to hear somebody talk about 

11           their struggles with reading, not because of 

12           intellect or effort, but because of the 

13           failure to diagnose and identify dyslexia and 

14           give those children the evidence-based 

15           reading curriculum that they so desperately 

16           need.

17                  My life was saved -- let me underline 

18           that -- my life was saved because in first 

19           grade a teacher identified me as dyslexic, 

20           and my parents had the means to get me a 

21           neuropsych, and then I was able to go to a 

22           school that provided me with an 

23           evidence-based reading curriculum that was 

24           multisensory, sequential, and rooted in 


                                                                   88

 1           phonics.  I would never have gone to law 

 2           school, I wouldn't be standing here today if 

 3           not for that.

 4                  Your advocacy during the campaign to 

 5           talk about screening for dyslexia, to talk 

 6           about evidence-based reading curricula, is a 

 7           breath of fresh air that we so desperately 

 8           need.  I commend you so much for what you and 

 9           Chancellor Banks have done.  I'm working with 

10           Chancellor Banks right now to circulate a 

11           letter among my colleagues for $10.2 million 

12           for identification and for curriculum 

13           interventions.  Think about that -- 

14           just $10.2 million in an education budget 

15           that's $30 billion.

16                  Can you tell us a little bit more 

17           about what you and Chancellor Banks are doing 

18           to make sure that we reach all of our 

19           children so they can meet their potential?  

20           You mentioned that 65 percent of Black and 

21           brown children in New York City are not at a 

22           proficient reading level, and we know if 

23           that's -- at fifth grade, if a child is not 

24           reading at grade level, they're rarely ever 


                                                                   89

 1           going to catch up.

 2                  This is a crisis.  You've identified 

 3           the crisis, you've taken your pain and put it 

 4           to purpose.  It's work that I've done here in 

 5           Albany for the last six years, and I can tell 

 6           you -- we've only made incremental gains, but 

 7           I feel the sky is the limit with you.  So I 

 8           want to thank you, Mr. Mayor, for that.  

 9                  I want to know how we can help you to 

10           make sure that we can have universal 

11           screening for dyslexia and we can get 

12           evidence-based reading curricula in our 

13           schools, because right now we don't.  And you 

14           know what?  If you're a denier of 

15           evidence-based reading curricula, you're no 

16           better than a climate denier, because the 

17           evidence is there, the science is there.  We 

18           desperately need it.  How can we help you, 

19           Mr. Mayor?

20                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Forty seconds.

21                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Well, first of all, you 

22           know, almost -- you sounded emotional.  And 

23           when I think about it, you're thanking me, 

24           but I want to thank you.  I was ashamed even 


                                                                   90

 1           as an adult for being dyslexic.  And I heard 

 2           you talk about it one day, Assemblyman, and I 

 3           made it my decision to talk about it on the 

 4           campaign trail.  I said, you know, I'm no 

 5           longer going to live in the shadows of having 

 6           a learning disability.  Because people 

 7           stigmatize you, not knowing that you just 

 8           learn differently.

 9                  And when I saw your boldness about how 

10           you talked about it and you fought for it, we 

11           reached out in the borough president's office 

12           and we said we wanted to partner with you, 

13           and you were receptive to that.  And you're 

14           going to change the lives of people.  It's 

15           unimaginable in this country that it is 

16           expected that 30 percent of our prison 

17           population is dyslexic.  The crime is not 

18           what they did only on the streets, the crime 

19           is the educational system that denies 

20           families for so many years.

21                  And we're going to get it done.  Right 

22           here in New York we have already started on 

23           some preliminary actions.  Here in the city, 

24           we're doing reading screenings for students 


                                                                   91

 1           in grades K through 12.  But our goal, as you 

 2           stated, is that we want to do universal 

 3           screening for dyslexia.  

 4                  And then we have to stop demonizing 

 5           what we are having parents feel, that their 

 6           child has a learning disability.  They just 

 7           learn differently.  

 8                  And our goal is to continue to work on 

 9           a more substantive dyslexia screening plan 

10           that's universal, and DOE arena screening is 

11           crucial for the grades of, you know, K-2 -- 

12           I'm sorry, not K-12, but K-2.  And it's 

13           imperative that we continue to expand that 

14           out.  Because if we could identify it early, 

15           we could give the support.

16                  And then we need a school that's 

17           specifically for children with dyslexia, and 

18           that is part of the goals we want to 

19           accomplish.

20                  So I'm excited about the future.  I'm 

21           excited about your partnership.  And so I say 

22           to you thank you for taking the weight off of 

23           my shoulders throughout life that made me 

24           feel I had to hide my dyslexia.  And you and 


                                                                   92

 1           Jo Anne Simon, the Assemblywoman, have made 

 2           it a different approach and people are now 

 3           thinking differently and they're acting 

 4           differently.  And we're going to save the 

 5           lives of children and families.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN CARROLL:  Thank you, 

 7           Mr. Mayor.  You're amazing.  Thank you so 

 8           much.  Whatever you need.

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

10                  To the Senate.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

12           much.  We are up to Senator Pete Harckham.

13                  SENATOR HARCKHAM:  Good morning, 

14           Mr. Mayor.  Great to see you, as always.  And 

15           thanks for being here, and thanks for your 

16           honesty just before.

17                  Two quick questions, unrelated.  I 

18           represent the East of Hudson Watershed for 

19           New York City's drinking water supply -- 

20           Westchester, Putnam and Dutchess.  And 

21           through prior agreement, the local 

22           municipalities protect that unfiltered water 

23           source through a variety of methods, mostly 

24           by constructing sewer districts and 


                                                                   93

 1           converting old septics to sewer -- a very 

 2           expensive process.  New York fills some of 

 3           the bill with Water Quality Improvement 

 4           funds.  That is a finite amount.  And our 

 5           municipalities need to plan long-term.

 6                  The policy of New York has been to not 

 7           release more money until the current money is 

 8           spent.  That's fine, understood.  But the 

 9           municipalities need to know how much the next 

10           level of funding will be so they can do 

11           long-term planning to protect the water 

12           supply of New York City.

13                  Last year at this time your 

14           predecessor said he would release the amount; 

15           he didn't.  Are you in a position where -- I 

16           mean not today, obviously.  But can DEP at 

17           least let the municipalities know in the 

18           future how much money will be in the next 

19           round of funding so they can at least do some 

20           long-term planning?

21                  MAYOR ADAMS:  First of all, 

22           transparency is clear, and transparency 

23           allows us the opportunity to plan forward.  I 

24           want to turn it over to my budget director, 


                                                                   94

 1           but I can tell you that we want to be as 

 2           transparent as possible.  

 3                  Jacques, you want to add on to it?

 4                  NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:  Yeah, I 

 5           will work with Finance, working with DEP, to 

 6           see exactly what the story is, and I will 

 7           come back to you.

 8                  SENATOR HARCKHAM:  All right, 

 9           terrific.  Thank you very much.

10                  One other question.  Just want to 

11           correct a mischaracterization from earlier in 

12           the public hearing.  The Governor's ADU 

13           proposal, accessory dwelling unit proposal, 

14           does not strip local discretion in land use.  

15           Rather, it just requires each municipality to 

16           create a law to allow for residents to create 

17           ADUs within the existing footprint that 

18           they're already zoned.

19                  Part of that proposal is $85 million 

20           to bring illegal accessory dwelling units up 

21           to code and make them legal.  So whether it's 

22           illegal basement apartments in New York City 

23           or illegal attic apartments or basement 

24           apartments in Westchester County,  I think 


                                                                   95

 1           it's vital that we use that money to make 

 2           those units safe.

 3                  Is that something that would be 

 4           beneficial for the City of New York, 

 5           Mr. Mayor?

 6                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Yes.  I strongly support 

 7           the Governor's proposal.  And it really plays 

 8           into our pathway to new housing.  And it was 

 9           a smart way to do so, to legalize these 

10           units.

11                  We had a proposal that was pushed, you 

12           know, last year around how do we make even 

13           our basement apartments safe by using FDNY 

14           and DOB, and we want to further lean into 

15           that.  But I strongly support the Governor's 

16           proposal.

17                  SENATOR HARCKHAM:  Thank you very 

18           much.

19                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

20                  Assembly.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go to 

22           Assemblyman Tannousis, three minutes.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN TANNOUSIS:  Thank you very 

24           much.


                                                                   96

 1                  Good morning, Mr. Mayor.  Good to see 

 2           you this morning.

 3                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Good morning.  Good to 

 4           see you as well.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN TANNOUSIS:  Good to see 

 6           you.  I just have two separate questions for 

 7           you, and I'm going to try to fit them in in 

 8           the three minutes.  

 9                  The first question is in regards to 

10           the dangerousness standard for allowing 

11           judges to hold defendants with a 

12           dangerousness statute in pretrial detention.  

13           You have advocated for that, as have I.  

14           There have been some critics out there that 

15           have been stating that it may lead to some 

16           discriminatory outcomes.  What do you say to 

17           those critics as far as if that will indeed 

18           have an effect, discriminatory effect, upon 

19           these defendants?  

20                  And how are we --

21                  MAYOR ADAMS:  (Inaudible overtalk.)

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN TANNOUSIS:  -- that 

23           possible?  

24                  MAYOR ADAMS:  When I started this 


                                                                   97

 1           pursuit of doing criminal justice reform, I 

 2           was concerned when I saw the number of cases 

 3           where the bail and other -- even 

 4           sentencing -- was heavily unfair to Black and 

 5           brown defendants.  And I was extremely 

 6           concerned about that, and I stated the way we 

 7           can really keep this in alignment is to make 

 8           sure that we have transparency.  Every judge 

 9           should do a clear analysis of their 

10           sentencings, as well as their bail.

11                  And this can put that concern to rest.  

12           We could immediately identify it, and you 

13           could do this in realtime.  And that is how 

14           we address that issue that I was concerned 

15           about, and I believe there are mechanisms 

16           right now to make sure we don't have the 

17           unfair bail.

18                  But again, I'm for removing cash bail 

19           altogether.  You know?  I don't think your 

20           ability to pay should determine if your 

21           violence is something that you are dangerous 

22           to society.  And I want to be clear on that.  

23           We need to -- dangerousness is an important 

24           part of determining should someone go back 


                                                                   98

 1           out into our communities.

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN TANNOUSIS:  Thank you, 

 3           Mr. Mayor.

 4                  The second question I wanted to ask 

 5           you is in regards to charter schools.  

 6           Charter schools have children in minority 

 7           communities across the city.  Would you 

 8           support lifting the charter school cap to 

 9           help our students in struggling communities?

10                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Well, you know, of 

11           course, you know, that's going to come out of 

12           Albany to make the final determination.  And 

13           I'm a big believer, with the chancellor -- 

14           it's something we talk about all the time.  

15           It's about scaling up excellence.  And 

16           wherever we find the excellence -- if it's in 

17           district schools, public schools, charter 

18           schools -- we say scale it up.  We need to 

19           have the best educational opportunities for 

20           our children.

21                  But we also should look into the 

22           zombie charters.  We have a large number of 

23           charters that are not being used.  Let's get 

24           those zombie charters also back online so 


                                                                   99

 1           that we can get the best system in support of 

 2           that.

 3                  So I'm in support of scaling up 

 4           excellence -- wherever we find it, scaling up 

 5           excellence.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN TANNOUSIS:  Thank you, 

 7           Mr. Mayor.

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  I guess it's back 

 9           to the Senate.  

10                  Our next is Senator Roxanne Persaud.

11                  SENATOR PERSAUD:  Well, thank you, 

12           thank you.

13                  Good morning, Mr. Mayor.  It is great 

14           to see you.  I just want to thank you for 

15           everything that you're doing.  Are you 

16           hearing me?

17                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Yes, I can.  Hear you 

18           well.

19                  SENATOR PERSAUD:  Oh, thank you, 

20           because my machine is going in and out.  

21           Thank you.

22                  I just want to thank you for 

23           everything that you promised that you will 

24           do, and you have indeed lived up to GSD.  So 


                                                                   100

 1           I appreciate all of that.

 2                  I want to ask you about summer youth 

 3           employment.  We've seen a spike in gun 

 4           violence, primarily across my district.  As 

 5           you know, I have seven numbered precincts, 

 6           and up to yesterday, in the 75th, there was 

 7           another shooting and in the 69th there was 

 8           another shooting.

 9                  What do we intend to do to ensure that 

10           more youth are employed under the Summer 

11           Youth Program?  Can the city commit to 

12           increasing the number of employment slots 

13           that are funded?

14                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you, Senator.

15                  And when you do an analysis -- I had a 

16           briefing the other day of an analysis of 

17           where the violence is coming from:  Canarsie 

18           is one of the areas.  We have a real gang 

19           problem that's taking place with the number 

20           of gangs, violent gangs in that area.  A 

21           traditionally stable community -- homeowners, 

22           heavy community from the Caribbean 

23           diaspora -- and we need to zero in on that 

24           problem that's happening.  And it's coming 


                                                                   101

 1           from a lot of the rap industry and social 

 2           media.  They are feeding a lot of this -- a 

 3           lot of this crime.

 4                  So several things.  Number one, we 

 5           believe that every child that's looking for a 

 6           summer job should receive a job.  We're going 

 7           to launch an unprecedented Summer Youth 

 8           engagement program where we can get our young 

 9           people employed.  Because it's more than just 

10           keeping them busy over the summer; this helps 

11           them compensate for their families.  I don't 

12           know what my family would have done to pay 

13           for school supplies and clothing if we didn't 

14           have a Summer Youth job during the 

15           summertime.  So we're going to do that.

16                  But we're also asking our corporate 

17           leaders -- it's time for them to step up.  We 

18           should do a 100 percent paid internship 

19           program for every young person that wants a 

20           paid internship, to allow them to be exposed 

21           to a corporate environment and put them on 

22           the pathway to employment.  

23                  So it's imperative that we have our 

24           partnership from Albany to continue to expand 


                                                                   102

 1           the Summer Youth.  But I'm a believer, 

 2           Senator, 100 percent summer youth employment 

 3           for all of our young people.  And we need to 

 4           accomplish that task during the summer months 

 5           in particular.  We're --

 6                  SENATOR PERSAUD:  Thank you.  Thank 

 7           you.  I'm sorry to cut you off, Mr. Mayor.  

 8                  In my 24 seconds that I have left, can 

 9           you tell me -- touch on why NYCHA needs the 

10           Public Trust?  Can you touch on that quickly? 

11                  And also I want to commend the 

12           commander of the 61st Precinct for the 

13           mentorship program that he's implemented.  

14           And I want to see us replicate that across 

15           the city, so if your team can look into that.  

16                  But can you touch on the Public Trust 

17           for NYCHA?

18                  MAYOR ADAMS:  So important.  You know, 

19           NYCHA -- Senator, NYCHA has a $40 billion 

20           problem.  And, you know, we often talk about, 

21           well, you know, when the federal government 

22           comes -- listen, those bugles we're hearing, 

23           that is not the cavalry, that's taps.  NYCHA 

24           is dying.  And we need to get resources now 


                                                                   103

 1           into NYCHA.

 2                  And I know there's a lot of distrust, 

 3           and I'm going to continue to go to all of my 

 4           NYCHA facilities to talk about the distrust 

 5           that they are feeling.  

 6                  But this is a way of ensuring that we 

 7           can fund these capital projects by utilizing 

 8           the trust to do so.  We have to fund these 

 9           capital projects.  There must be an entity to 

10           put the money into the public health and 

11           public safety issues NYCHA's facing.  Its 

12           record has gotten worse throughout the years, 

13           and you know that because you have been in a 

14           lot of the various facilities.  

15                  And I believe the ongoing conversation 

16           about establishing this trust could qualify 

17           NYCHA for more federal subsidies and 

18           establish better procurement rules, and I 

19           think it's critical for us to institute it.  

20           And we want to do a tour throughout all of 

21           our NYCHA facilities to explain to them what 

22           this trust is about, so we can rebuild trust 

23           with NYCHA and make sure that it's done 

24           correctly.


                                                                   104

 1                  SENATOR PERSAUD:  Thank you.

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Helene, back to 

 3           you.

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go to 

 5           Assemblyman Weprin, three minutes.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN WEPRIN:  Good morning, 

 7           Mr. Mayor.

 8                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Good morning.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN WEPRIN:  It's great to see 

10           you and great to see two friends of long 

11           standing who you brought with you, Tiffany 

12           Raspberry and Jacques Jiha, who I've worked 

13           with closely over my 20 years in elective 

14           office -- eight years in the City Council and 

15           now 12 years in the Assembly.

16                  I chair the Corrections Committee in 

17           the Assembly, and we had a hearing of the 

18           Assembly Corrections Committee in October 

19           specifically on Rikers Island.  And I have 

20           not had the privilege of meeting 

21           Commissioner Molina yet, but I hope to have 

22           an opportunity to sit down with him and go 

23           over some of the relevant issues.

24                  But out of that hearing I'm 


                                                                   105

 1           introducing a package of bills, some to help 

 2           correction officers and correction employees, 

 3           like ending triple shifts and dealing with 

 4           sexual assault, increasing those penalties 

 5           against correction officers.  But I also have 

 6           bills to change the intake process, to get 

 7           the treatment and the mental health 

 8           evaluation and substance abuse issues at 

 9           intake, which could solve some of the 

10           problems and might have prevented some of the 

11           15 deaths in the last year at Rikers.

12                  Can you comment on your plan to deal 

13           with the situation in Rikers?  And I know 

14           Commissioner Molina -- it's very much on 

15           Commissioner Molina's radar, but I haven't 

16           sat down with him or discussed it.

17                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thanks so much.  And 

18           we've done so much together, Assemblyman.  

19           And I'm going to make sure, when we finish 

20           this conversation, that I reach out to the 

21           commissioner so he can coordinate a time for 

22           you to meet with him.

23                  We inherited a mess on NYCHA {sic} -- 

24           the lack of having a full understanding with 


                                                                   106

 1           the employees there.  People think of 

 2           employees as only being correction officers, 

 3           but also the civilian employees that are 

 4           there.  And we have to create the right 

 5           environment.  And Commissioner Molina is the 

 6           perfect person in Rikers -- I'm sorry, I said 

 7           NYCHA; I meant Rikers.  Commissioner Molina 

 8           is the perfect person in Rikers to turn it 

 9           around.  I wanted the right combination to do 

10           so.  

11                  And so we need to look at several 

12           areas.  Number one, the place needs to be 

13           clean.  When I walked through and did my 

14           visit at NYCHA {sic}, it's a dark, dreary 

15           place and we need to turn that around.

16                  Number two, we need to create an 

17           environment of where officers are able to do 

18           their job in a safe environment. 

19                  Three, we need to separate the small 

20           number of violent inmates that prey on other 

21           inmates.  Eighty percent of those who are in 

22           punitive segregation create an attack against 

23           another inmate.  And then we need to make 

24           sure that the inmates that are there are able 


                                                                   107

 1           to serve their time without violence.  

 2                  And then we need to make sure that we 

 3           move towards a very safe way of transitioning 

 4           to the plan of closing down Rikers in a safe 

 5           way to do so.  And that's what Commissioner 

 6           Molina is doing so.  I'm proud of what he's 

 7           doing already.  We were able to bring back 

 8           the women and take them from the state 

 9           facilities; we were able to bring back almost 

10           a thousand officers who were out sick.  

11           They're now back to work.  He has really 

12           calmed the waters, and now we're going to 

13           make sure the ship moves in the right 

14           direction to have a safe place for people to 

15           be able to serve their time with dignity, not 

16           a lack of respect, by reintroducing 

17           programming.  And then really use this place 

18           as an opportunity that people are not placed 

19           back in the same system that caused them to 

20           go there in the first place, and give them 

21           the support that they need to do so.

22                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank -- thank 

23           you --

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN WEPRIN:  Well, look 


                                                                   108

 1           forward to working with you and 

 2           Commissioner Molina.

 3                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you, 

 4           Mayor.  We go to the Senate.

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 6                  Next is our ranker, Ed Rath.

 7                  SENATOR RATH:  Thank you very much, 

 8           Madam Chair.  

 9                  And first of all, Mayor Adams, we 

10           appreciate your time and your testimony 

11           today, and for your perspective on bail 

12           reform measures as well as public safety 

13           prioritization.  Believe me, the people do 

14           not feel safe in our cities and our 

15           communities right now, and change must 

16           happen.  We hear it loud and clear in my 

17           Western New York community, that's for sure.

18                  My first question is, does your team 

19           have any projections as to what the costs to 

20           New York City may be if the state fails to 

21           act on the public safety revisions you 

22           mentioned?

23                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you for that, 

24           Senator.  We're doing an analysis now of the 


                                                                   109

 1           exact impact on the cost of some of the 

 2           actions that we're seeing.

 3                  But I would say this.  Tied to public 

 4           safety is our economy.  No one is going to 

 5           come back to our city with tourism, a 

 6           multi-billion-dollar industry, if we have 

 7           3-year-olds shot in Times Square, the center 

 8           of our tourism.  Businesses are not going to 

 9           open.  We just had a drugstore that closed 

10           its business because of the amount of thefts 

11           that are taking place inside.

12                  Now remember, that drugstore chain may 

13           be a large chain, but go look inside at the 

14           employees there.  They're low-wage employees 

15           that need the jobs.  Our economic lifeline is 

16           our subway system.  If it's an unsafe subway 

17           system, then we're not going to have people 

18           respond to ride the trains as needed.  And 

19           so, Assemblyman {sic}, we know there's an 

20           economic impact to not having a safe city.  

21           It's not disconnected, and I'm clear on that.

22                  And when I speak with the partnership 

23           and Kathy Wylde and the countless number of 

24           corporate CEOs and executives, the number-one 


                                                                   110

 1           thing they say to me:  Eric, we must be safe 

 2           for our employees.  And I have to produce 

 3           that safety so our economy is not devastated.  

 4           Just look towards San Francisco, look towards 

 5           Chicago, look towards the other cities in 

 6           this country that are experiencing a lack of 

 7           safety.  New York can't go in that direction.

 8                  SENATOR RATH:  I couldn't agree with 

 9           you more.  And public safety needs to be our 

10           A-number-one priority in our communities 

11           right now.

12                  A quick follow-up on that, though.  

13           one of our greatest assets in the State of 

14           New York is our people, and our people own 

15           businesses, they create jobs, and they work 

16           in our communities.  The outflow that we have 

17           seen of residents from New York City and 

18           New York State over the past two years has 

19           been dramatic, to the tune of almost a 

20           thousand people a day.  And those are people 

21           that are going to lower taxes in less 

22           regulatory states.

23                  What can we do to retain and attract 

24           people in our great state so we have the 


                                                                   111

 1           economic future you're talking about?

 2                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Assemblyman {sic}, first 

 3           we have to do something that I call and I use 

 4           often:  Upstream.  We have to change the way 

 5           we govern.  We have a downstream mindset.  As 

 6           Archbishop Desmond Tutu states:  We've spent 

 7           a lifetime pulling people out of the river.  

 8           No one goes upstream to prevent them from 

 9           falling in in the first place.

10                  I'm going to make upstream 

11           investments, something as simple as what 

12           Assemblyman Carroll stated -- dyslexia 

13           screening.  Let's not pull them out of the 

14           river downstream.  Or investing in our foster 

15           care system, because we've failed to do the 

16           proper investment.  When children age out at 

17           21 years old, only 20-something percent 

18           graduate from high school, and only 3 percent 

19           enroll in college -- more likely to be 

20           homeless, with mental health issues.  But if 

21           we invest just $50 million in something like 

22           a fair future, we could turn that around.

23                  So people will come back to the city 

24           and feel as though they are part of New York 


                                                                   112

 1           if we are a safe, clean city where we can 

 2           raise our children and families.  And that's 

 3           what I must do, and I believe we're going to 

 4           accomplish that task.

 5                  SENATOR RATH:  Thank you.  Please keep 

 6           up the fight for public safety.

 7                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you.

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 9                  Back to the Assembly.

10                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Yes, we go next 

11           to Assemblyman Mamdani, three minutes.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  Thank you, 

13           Chair.

14                  Thank you, Mr. Mayor.  

15                  In your testimony you said, quote, We 

16           must use every available option to increase 

17           housing affordability and stability in our 

18           city.  One of the key tools you have at your 

19           disposal in that fight is the Rent Guidelines 

20           Board and your appointments to that board.

21                  The previous mayor's board froze rents 

22           four times.  Do you believe that tenants in 

23           rent-stabilized units should face rent 

24           increases this year?


                                                                   113

 1                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Well, I think we're 

 2           going to a very difficult point and place in 

 3           what -- the impacts on our tenants, and the 

 4           Rent Guidelines Board is going to do the 

 5           right analysis to determine the outcome.  I 

 6           don't believe we need to do a further burden 

 7           on our tenants -- almost a million tenants 

 8           are behind in their rents, and I think it's 

 9           imperative that we do everything that's 

10           possible to assure the stability of that.

11                  But also know something else that's 

12           often missed in this conversation.  It's 

13           called small property owners are tied to 

14           their rents.  It's their ability to pay their 

15           taxes, their utility bills.  We need to give 

16           help to them as well.  We need to make sure 

17           that we don't hurt those small property 

18           owners, because particularly in New York 

19           City, they're Black and brown and 

20           immigrants --

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  I'm so sorry --

22                  MAYOR ADAMS:  -- people of color that 

23           need the income that comes from their rents.

24                  And so there needs to be some support 


                                                                   114

 1           for them, and they're often missed in this 

 2           conversation.  And we need to be there for 

 3           them as well.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  Thank you, 

 5           Mr. Mayor.  But just respectfully, if you 

 6           could answer the question:  Do you believe 

 7           that tenants in rent-stabilized units should 

 8           face rent increases this year?

 9                  MAYOR ADAMS:  I believe I did answer 

10           that question.  I believe the Rent Guidelines 

11           Board is going to do their analysis.  I will 

12           hope that we don't have to give an increase 

13           to those tenants because of what the burden 

14           has been placed on them.  Many of them have 

15           been unemployed, laid off, our economy is 

16           being hit.

17                  I think there's a balance.  Sometimes 

18           we only focus on one end of the spectrum.  

19           Let's freeze the rent of the tenants but 

20           let's give the support to those small 

21           property owners as well.  And I think that 

22           support can come from Albany, to make sure we 

23           don't lose those homeowners that are holding 

24           on.  Because just as the tenants have been 


                                                                   115

 1           impacted, those homeowners have been impacted 

 2           as well.  And sometimes we forget those 

 3           homeowners.

 4                  And so we can freeze it.  Let's do so 

 5           with that evaluation.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  Thank you so 

 7           much, Mr. Mayor.  A different topic.

 8                  New York City's own data from your 

 9           Office of Criminal Justice shows that 

10           pretrial rearrest rates remain nearly 

11           identical pre- and post-bail reform.  In 

12           other words, releasing people earlier has 

13           statistically had no effect on crime.

14                  Given this data, why are you claiming 

15           that the bail laws are driving a crime wave 

16           in New York?

17                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Well, a couple of 

18           things.  That data, you need to really look 

19           at it.  Let me just go to another one of my 

20           signs here.  2019-2021, number arrested for 

21           homicide out on bail for gun offenses 

22           tripled, tripled.  We're talking homicides.  

23           We lost lives, lost lives.

24                  Second, number arrested for shooting, 


                                                                   116

 1           out on bail for gun offenses nearly tripled, 

 2           tripled.

 3                  And so what I'm saying, if you look at 

 4           my history in this conversation -- not as 

 5           mayor, not as borough president, but my 

 6           history is for reform of the criminal justice 

 7           system.  

 8                  And we often look at the total picture 

 9           of everyone who commits dangerous crimes.  I 

10           am saying there's a small percentage of them 

11           that's driving up the gun violence, that's 

12           driving up some of the felonious assaults 

13           with weapons.  That's what we need to zero in 

14           on.  

15                  My tweak zeroes in on them; it doesn't 

16           hurt the overwhelming number of people who 

17           are arrested in the criminal justice system.  

18           It zeroes in on, in a precision, strategic 

19           way, on the violent people that live with the 

20           numbers that I just reported to you.  That is 

21           who we have to go after.

22                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  And 

23           we go --

24                  MAYOR ADAMS:  -- discuss these tweaks 


                                                                   117

 1           together so that we can come to a real 

 2           resolution as a person who has a been a 

 3           leading voice for 35 years on criminal 

 4           justice reform.  I'm not new to this.  I'm 

 5           true to this.  This is my lifework.

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  

 7           Thank you, Mr. Mayor.  We go to the Senate.

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 9                  And Mr. Adams, you are not new to 

10           this, so I'm going to remind you to please 

11           watch the clock when you're finishing your 

12           statements.

13                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Yes, ma'am.

14                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Next up is 

15           Senator Leroy Comrie.

16                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Thank you, Madam 

17           Chairs.

18                  Good morning, Mr. Mayor.  And good 

19           morning to --

20                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Hey, how you doing, 

21           Leroy?  

22                  SENATOR COMRIE:  And also good morning 

23           to my constituent --

24                  MAYOR ADAMS:  You may not know it, but 


                                                                   118

 1           my middle name is Leroy.

 2                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Oh, that's right.  

 3           That's right.  And also to Commissioner 

 4           Jacques Jiha, who is a constituent of mine -- 

 5           I hope still.  But you're probably going to 

 6           have him working so hard he might have to 

 7           move to Manhattan just to keep up.

 8                  And also to Sister Raspberry.  Good to 

 9           see you also.  We've had -- I enjoyed a great 

10           working relationship with you and your team, 

11           and I want to commend you, Mayor Adams, as 

12           your team has been truly responsive and 

13           especially quick to get back to us in 

14           Southeast Queens.

15                  I have five questions, so I'm going to 

16           just drop some things for you to consider and 

17           then one question for you to answer, if I 

18           may.

19                  We need to work on bus redesign.  It's 

20           coming back up in Queens.  And I would hope 

21           that you and your team work with us, with 

22           DOT.  DOT unfortunately has a horrible record 

23           of response on all issues in Queens.  We need 

24           to do bus redesign, working with the MTA, to 


                                                                   119

 1           make sure that we can move buses, especially 

 2           in Southeast Queens, direct to Long Island 

 3           Rail Road, so that we're not overly dependent 

 4           on the subway system throughout Queens.  

 5                  So we have plenty of capacity on the 

 6           Long Island Rail Road for essential workers 

 7           to take the Long Island Rail Road in, and 

 8           there have been studies to show that.  And we 

 9           will follow up and send that to your office.

10                  DOT, again, has been a problem.  And I 

11           hope that we can consider, on a citywide 

12           level, residential parking permits for 

13           certain neighborhoods that are inundated with 

14           over -- people that are parking and walking 

15           to the subway from Long Island.

16                  Plus another issue that I wanted to 

17           share with you.  We need to make sure that we 

18           do tech support and financial services for 

19           locally based organizations that don't have 

20           the capacity to do it themselves, so that 

21           they can be available to be competitive for 

22           being part of the different contracts that 

23           are going to come up to try to reduce 

24           violence by having alternative programs.  


                                                                   120

 1                  If our local programs cannot be able 

 2           to qualify because they don't know how to 

 3           even fill out the Attorney General form, we 

 4           need some help for those programs as well.

 5                  Just another thing, on education -- I 

 6           only got 40 seconds?  Oh, okay.  Education, 

 7           we need to figure out the after-school 

 8           facilities and programs.  I want to work with 

 9           you to make sure that that happens, that -- 

10           your idea and our Education Commissioner 

11           Banks' to make sure that we have after-school 

12           programs in every school in our district.  As 

13           you know from growing up, we used to have 

14           schools open until 8 o'clock.  And some 

15           schools need to be open 24 hours on weekends 

16           for our communities.  

17                  Also, for the local groups that are 

18           trying to use the schools, we need to lower 

19           the cost for local groups that are using the 

20           schools now.  It's become very prohibitive 

21           for local nonprofits to use school space for 

22           community programs, and we can work on 

23           reducing those costs.

24                  And I just have one question.  You 


                                                                   121

 1           asked for an increase in bonding capacity.

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Well, excuse --

 3                  SENATOR COMRIE:  How could you 

 4           increase the bonding capacity -- how can you 

 5           increase delivering capital projects with 

 6           that bonding capacity?  

 7                  Thank you.

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Leroy, you have 

 9           way over --

10                  SENATOR COMRIE:  I know, I know, I 

11           just --

12                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  You're not 

13           getting any answers from the mayor right now.

14                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Too many questions, 

15           too little time.  But I just --

16                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  The mayor can 

17           answer your questions in writing or offline 

18           to you.

19                  And Mr. Mayor, there will be many 

20           questions you don't necessarily have the 

21           answers at the tip of your fingertips.  So if 

22           you're please writing any responses, address 

23           them to Helene and myself and we'll make sure 

24           all members of the committees get your 


                                                                   122

 1           answers.  Thank you.

 2                  Helene.

 3                  MAYOR ADAMS:  You're quite welcome.

 4                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Thank you.

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Yes, thank you.  

 6                  So now we're going to go with 

 7           Assemblywoman Rozic, three minutes.

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN ROZIC:  Thank you, 

 9           Chair.

10                  Good morning, soon to be good 

11           afternoon, Mr. Mayor.

12                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Good afternoon to you as 

13           well.  And I said "bless you" when you were 

14           sneezing.

15                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN ROZIC:  Thank you.  I'm 

16           impressed you noticed that.

17                  I just have one question for you.  The 

18           chancellor -- Chancellor Banks said Monday 

19           night that city workers will announce -- the 

20           city will announce its plans for remote 

21           learning next week and that it's a big 

22           priority for the city.

23                  In a similar vein, I have legislation 

24           pending with Senator Comrie to allow for 


                                                                   123

 1           telework for city workers where possible.  

 2           Currently remote accommodations we've heard 

 3           take months to be processed and responded to.  

 4           That's inefficient.

 5                  So is your administration open to 

 6           upstreaming, making reasonable accommodations 

 7           where possible for remote or telework for 

 8           city workers?  And similarly, would you be 

 9           willing or commit to meeting with these 

10           impacted city workers who have been calling 

11           for increased flexibility?  

12                  MAYOR ADAMS:  For whatever reason, 

13           there was an echo, so I wasn't really able to 

14           get it, but I believe you asked about remote 

15           workers for -- it's city employees --

16                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN ROZIC:  Yes.

17                  MAYOR ADAMS:  -- am I correct?  Okay.

18                  The -- you know, I'm a big believer in 

19           transit improvements, that's number one.  But 

20           if you were asking about remote working for 

21           city employees, I really need for all of us 

22           to wrap our heads around why we need the 

23           people back to work.  Because I don't think 

24           we really sort of understand it.


                                                                   124

 1                  If we convert our city into a remote 

 2           city, it's going to hurt low-wage workers.  I 

 3           need that accountant back in his office or 

 4           her office so that they can go to the local 

 5           restaurant, they can get their shoes shined, 

 6           they can take their suits to the tailor's.  

 7           Because if they're not in that restaurant, 

 8           then that cook, that waitress, that waiter, 

 9           that bartender, they're not employed.

10                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN ROZIC:  I understand 

11           that --

12                  MAYOR ADAMS:  And they're not bringing 

13           in the business travelers.  Seventy percent 

14           of business -- the hotel occupancy comes from 

15           our business travelers.  And so wherever --

16                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN ROZIC:  I'm asking 

17           about -- I'm asking about the pregnant worker 

18           or the immunocompromised worker.  It's not 

19           every worker who needs a remote or telework 

20           option.  I'm asking for those special 

21           accommodations where possible.

22                  MAYOR ADAMS:  I'm sorry, I'm really 

23           not -- there's an echo, so I want to be able 

24           to answer your question correctly, but I'm 


                                                                   125

 1           not really hearing the question.  You know, 

 2           so if I'm missing the answer, it's because 

 3           I'm not fully understanding the question.  So 

 4           if somebody can -- you know, there's an echo 

 5           I'm hearing from you.  But I need to get 

 6           people back to work.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Assemblywoman 

 8           -- Mr. Mayor, we'll send you the question in 

 9           writing.  But if you could hear me more 

10           clearly, the question that we'll look for an 

11           answer in writing from you relates to workers 

12           that are immune-compromised or pregnant that 

13           are more susceptible.

14                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Okay, I'm sorry, I 

15           didn't understand you. 

16                  Yes, there should be a conversation 

17           about those who are immune-compromised or for 

18           some other reason.  We're open to that.  And 

19           Tiffany will reach out to your office to hear 

20           your ideas around that.  I didn't hear that 

21           part of the immune-compromised and pregnant.  

22           I'm very concerned about those who are 

23           immune-compromised, and I think there are 

24           ways that we could address them, because they 


                                                                   126

 1           are a small number of people and we should be 

 2           compassionate around that.

 3                  And so Tiffany will reach out to you 

 4           and hear your ideas around that.

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you. 

 6                  We'll move on to the Senate.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  Thank 

 8           you very much.

 9                  On to Senator Kevin Thomas.

10                  SENATOR THOMAS:  Thank you, Chair.  

11                  And thank you, Mayor, for being here. 

12                  You have so far testified about a 

13           range of serious issues, so I want to shift 

14           the focus onto something else.  I am a 

15           Senator from Long Island and also the first 

16           South Asian to be elected to the State 

17           Legislature, in 2018.  So the next question 

18           deals with an issue pushed by my South Asian 

19           community for years now with previous 

20           New York City administrations.

21                  And that issue is making Diwali a 

22           school holiday.  Diwali is a Festival of 

23           Lights and is celebrated by Hindus, 

24           Buddhists, Sikhs and Jains.  I have school 


                                                                   127

 1           districts out here on Long Island with Diwali 

 2           as a school holiday.  Mr. Mayor, when will 

 3           you make Diwali a school holiday in New York 

 4           City?

 5                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Well, first of all, we 

 6           should never have allowed Long Island to beat 

 7           us --

 8                  (Laughter.)

 9                  MAYOR ADAMS:  That is the first 

10           mistake.  And, you know, we're pushing up 

11           against the number of hours that are required 

12           to have classrooms -- but I think we could be 

13           creative and making sure that we do so.

14                  This is a diversified city, and we 

15           need to respect all of those important 

16           holidays that are significant.  It is my goal 

17           to have Diwali as a holiday, the Festival of 

18           Lights.  I fully support it, and we're going 

19           to work on this issue.  And I'm going to be 

20           happy when we do it, and invite you out to 

21           some of our Diwali celebrations, because I 

22           make many of them throughout the year.

23                  SENATOR THOMAS:  Thank you, Mayor.  

24           Would you be able to do it within your 


                                                                   128

 1           hundred days of your administration?

 2                  MAYOR ADAMS:  I hope we could, but we 

 3           have to identify -- the chancellor's 

 4           partnering with us.  Again, because we're 

 5           pushing up with the requirements that are 

 6           needed for school hours.  But we're going to 

 7           work out a plan, and we're going to get it 

 8           done, I'm sure of that.  

 9                  And I can't commit if it's going to be 

10           done within the first 100 days because my 

11           100 days have been equivalent to a dog's 

12           life.  Every day seems like 14 days.  This 

13           has been one heck of a run.  I had no 

14           honeymoon, trust me.

15                  SENATOR THOMAS:  You know what, 

16           Mr. Mayor, I'm going to join with the other 

17           Long Island electeds by saying it's a 

18           pleasure that we have such a fresh face and a 

19           mayor with swagger, as we would like to say 

20           it, running the show.  All right?  Thank you.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

22                  Assembly.

23                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go to 

24           Assemblywoman Walker, three minutes.


                                                                   129

 1                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALKER:  Thank you.

 2                  Mr. Mayor, are you aware that OCA data 

 3           shows that there was evidence of inherent 

 4           institutional discrimination and bias in our 

 5           court system?  

 6                  Are you also aware that this 

 7           dangerousness assessment that you are a 

 8           proponent of involves algorithms which are 

 9           racially imperfect and that questions 

10           housing, employment and education as opposed 

11           to a propensity towards dangerousness?

12                  Are you aware that guns are still 

13           bail-eligible?  

14                  Are you also aware that in 2019, 

15           95 percent of all people were not rearrested 

16           on violent felony offenses and, since bail 

17           reform, that number rose to 97 percent of the 

18           people who were released were not rearrested 

19           on violent felony charges?

20                  And in fact, are you also aware that 

21           New Jersey, which had implemented a 

22           dangerousness standard did not result in a 

23           different outcome from New York, which has 

24           not implemented a dangerousness standard?  


                                                                   130

 1           Whereas 14.4 percent of the people in 

 2           New Jersey were rearrested on felony 

 3           offenses, and here only 13.3 percent of the 

 4           people were rearrested on pretrial felony 

 5           offenses.

 6                  And so it is a cautionary tale that we 

 7           are very cognizant of the Jim Crow remnants 

 8           of criminal justice in our country.  

 9           Dangerousness is not a tweak, but it is a 

10           wholesale change to our bail system and the 

11           way that we've been handling bail in the 

12           State of New York.  

13                  And while I do appreciate your 

14           rhetoric and the cards, I do challenge you to 

15           a debate with respect to bail reform and the 

16           effects that it has been having with respect 

17           to an alleged rise in crime in the City of 

18           New York, where we are seeing crime on the 

19           rise all across the country, even in states 

20           where bail reform is not a thing.

21                  Thank you, Mr. Mayor.  Are you aware 

22           of all of the statements and questions that I 

23           just enumerated?

24                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thanks so much, Latrice.  


                                                                   131

 1           And I commend you for the passion and the 

 2           caring and the concern you have on this 

 3           issue.  And I commended you on those publicly 

 4           throughout this entire endeavor.  And I 

 5           talked about you, how you leaned into a very 

 6           difficult conversation.  And I thank you for 

 7           what you have done.  I've seen the 

 8           actualization of my lifework materialize to 

 9           this.  

10                  I didn't start doing this, Latrice.  

11           And I don't think you should debate me, you 

12           should debate the 11-month-old baby's mother.  

13           You should debate the two police officers 

14           that we lost.  You should debate the people 

15           who are watching violence --

16                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALKER:  No --

17                  MAYOR ADAMS:  -- in your community and 

18           throughout this city.

19                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALKER:  -- it's you who 

20           are making this a political issue.  You don't 

21           have to tell me to debate a person who lost 

22           an 11-month-old child, because I lost a 

23           brother at the age of 19 years old to gun 

24           violence.  And I want to be safe, and I want 


                                                                   132

 1           to make sure that this city is safe to raise 

 2           my children as well as all children across 

 3           the State of New York.

 4                  But when you are adopting the rhetoric 

 5           of people who are male, pale and stale in 

 6           this state to say that racially insinuated 

 7           criminal justice reform in our country is 

 8           harming our city, I just think it's wrong.  

 9           And I think that it is something that we need 

10           to discuss as elected officials.  And not in 

11           six-second bites in the media, but in a forum 

12           that will allow for us to debate the issues, 

13           to debate the facts and the circumstances so 

14           that we can make sure that this country 

15           remains one that is safe for all people to 

16           live, and not just some who declare that they 

17           want to be able to come to New York City for 

18           a visit, but for each and every one of us, 

19           including those who live in impoverished, 

20           disadvantaged and crime-ridden communities.

21                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Well, I don't think I 

22           came here just for a visit or to live, I 

23           think I came here as a person who put on that 

24           uniform and protected communities, as a 


                                                                   133

 1           person who was arrested and assaulted by 

 2           police officers, a person who visited many of 

 3           our state facilities, as a person who pushed 

 4           the Rockefeller Drug Law, as a person who has 

 5           been a consistent advocate for this.

 6                  And so I look forward to an ongoing 

 7           conversation.  And we can disagree, and we 

 8           don't have to be disagreeable.  We 

 9           philosophically disagree on the impact of 

10           this small number of people who are using the 

11           bail system to perpetuate violence in 

12           communities like yours and mine.  

13                  And I look forward to this 

14           conversation with you because, again, I 

15           commend you for what you have done and what 

16           we can continue to do to get that balance 

17           that you and I both are looking for.  Public 

18           safety and justice, they must go together.  

19           We can't have one without the other.  And 

20           there's a close correlation between the 

21           violence that we're seeing and those small 

22           number of people who have slipped through the 

23           system with bail reform and Raise the Age.  

24                  And let's continue to talk about it.  


                                                                   134

 1           I look forward to it.  I will be in Albany 

 2           one day next week, and I look forward to 

 3           sitting down with you to further this 

 4           conversation.  And I'm not using rhetoric, 

 5           sister, you know I don't use rhetoric.  You 

 6           know my work.  We have partnered together on 

 7           these issues, and I'm going to consistently 

 8           do so.

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank -- thank 

10           you.

11                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALKER:  Duly noted.  

12           Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

13                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go back to 

14           the Senate.

15                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

16           much.

17                  Next we go to Senator George Borrello.

18                  SENATOR BORRELLO:  Thank you, Madam 

19           Chair.  

20                  And thank you, Mr. Mayor, for being 

21           here.  You know, in addition to being a 

22           Senator, I'm also a former county executive.  

23           And I really -- I have a lot of empathy for 

24           you because you've taken the position of 


                                                                   135

 1           chief executive officer of a city that's more 

 2           dangerous than it's been in decades.  So I 

 3           wish you luck, and you're going to need a lot 

 4           of it.

 5                  I'm also a restaurant owner, and I'm a 

 6           member of the New York State Restaurant 

 7           Association, and I have been in many meetings 

 8           with New York City restaurant owners who are 

 9           at their wits' end.  They've exhausted their 

10           savings, they've seen people flee the city, 

11           first from the pandemic and now due to 

12           violence.  As you mentioned, tourism is down, 

13           hotels are empty, office buildings are empty.  

14           This is a very difficult time for the 

15           hospitality industry, which has been probably 

16           the most impacted industry as a result of the 

17           pandemic and just the general climate here in 

18           New York State right now.

19                  And so my question to you is with the 

20           proposal that our former governor and former 

21           mayor had of taking empty office buildings 

22           and empty hotels and turning them into public 

23           housing, how that might impact the ability to 

24           bring people back to New York City, and the 


                                                                   136

 1           unfair mandates that have really been visited 

 2           most heavily on the hospitality industry.  

 3           You know, we have to have a vaccine card to 

 4           walk into a restaurant and sit down and have 

 5           a meal, but yet you can ride the subway 

 6           without one and you can walk into a 

 7           department store without one.

 8                  So how are you going to address the 

 9           fact that this industry has been devastated 

10           and, despite all the federal funds to prop 

11           them up, which have now been exhausted, this 

12           industry is still in crisis and will 

13           likely -- and it is certainly the backbone of 

14           the experience of being in New York City, is 

15           being able to go into a restaurant, a fine 

16           hotel, a hospitality experience.  How do you 

17           plan to help this industry recover?

18                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Well -- and thank you 

19           for that.  And I think our restaurants, they 

20           are bellwethers to the success of the city.  

21           They are really indicative of how well we are 

22           doing.  The financial stability is attached 

23           to it.  As I indicated, low-wage employees 

24           are in the restaurants.  I was a former 


                                                                   137

 1           dishwasher, and I know how important it is to 

 2           be employed in our restaurants.

 3                  So number one, we need to stop making 

 4           business unfriendly to the city.  The 

 5           bureaucracy that's attached to just getting 

 6           your lights and gas turned on in a 

 7           restaurant, to get an inspection, to get a 

 8           CFO -- all of these things are in the way of 

 9           our restaurants.  The lack of clarity in our 

10           businesses.  One inspector comes in and gives 

11           you one indicator of what you need, and 

12           another will come in and give you something 

13           totally different.

14                  So we need to turn our city agencies 

15           into a place where we will continue to make 

16           our restaurants and other small businesses a 

17           safe place.  But we want to build on what SBS 

18           has done over the past year.  You know, 

19           $50 million in rental assistance, $50 million 

20           in grant funding for low-income communities, 

21           low-interest loans and more.

22                  But when you do an analysis, when I 

23           speak to my small businesses and restaurants, 

24           they say:  Eric, we need agencies to stop 


                                                                   138

 1           being impediments to getting our doors open 

 2           and placing people in the seats.  On Sunday I 

 3           sat down with Councilwoman Velázquez and 

 4           other councilmembers in the Bronx, and we 

 5           talked about even the outdoor seating 

 6           arrangements.  That was a lifeline to my 

 7           restaurants.  We're going to do it better, 

 8           we're going to reexamine it and find ways of 

 9           ensuring that we infuse money into our small 

10           businesses in the city and not get in the way 

11           of our small businesses.

12                  And so at the height of the pandemic 

13           the previous administration repeatedly asked 

14           for long-term borrowing authority and bonding 

15           authority, but all of this is connected to 

16           the things that we can do to make sure that 

17           our businesses and small businesses, as we 

18           build out and use our capital dollars, those 

19           are feeders to small businesses as well.  

20                  And so I'm with you 100 percent.  It's 

21           about getting our restaurants and our other 

22           businesses up and operating.

23                  SENATOR BORRELLO:  On behalf of the 

24           restaurant industry, best of luck.


                                                                   139

 1                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you.

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 3                  Assembly.

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go to 

 5           Assemblywoman Kelles, three minutes.

 6                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Good -- good 

 7           morning for 15 more minutes, Mayor Adams.

 8                  I wanted to just first thank you for 

 9           your focus on nutrition in education.  As a 

10           researcher in nutrition, that is near and 

11           dear to my heart and is very highly 

12           correlated with cognitive development, so 

13           thank you on that.

14                  And I wanted to make one comment and 

15           then one question, particularly about bail 

16           reform.  As a scientist, and particularly an 

17           epidemiologist, it's so important to figure 

18           out causality.  Although I totally agree with 

19           the focus on decreasing violence and gun 

20           violence, the question is whether or not bail 

21           reform is causally related to the increase 

22           that we're seeing.  

23                  So I just wanted to note a few things:  

24           That gun charges remain bail-eligible under 


                                                                   140

 1           New York's bail reform law, meaning that 

 2           judges can set bail or remand people in these 

 3           cases.  Wanted to note that.

 4                  And then, furthermore, OCA's data 

 5           shows that less than 1 percent of people 

 6           released pretrial after bail reform were 

 7           rearrested on new firearms charges.  And the 

 8           uptick in gun violence over the past two 

 9           years is actually a national trend impacting 

10           many cities that have not passed any criminal 

11           justice reform.  For example, violent crime 

12           was higher in Anchorage, Alaska, 11.95 out of 

13           100,000.  Memphis, Tennessee, 11.07.  And it 

14           continues.

15                  So the question is, if our average 

16           increase is less than other states that have 

17           not seen bail reform, then is it bail reform 

18           that is causally related?  And so I would 

19           just ask that that be very carefully 

20           evaluated:  Is that a causal relationship or 

21           is it other factors?

22                  And then I want to switch gears to a 

23           topic that's near and dear to my heart.  You 

24           spoke earlier about climate change.  I deeply 


                                                                   141

 1           appreciate your concerns about the impact of 

 2           climate change on the city.  One of the big 

 3           issues being discussed at the state level is 

 4           the impact of cryptocurrency mining on 

 5           climate change.  And in New York State in 

 6           particular, because of the number of 

 7           countries that have banned cryptocurrency 

 8           mining because of its impact on the 

 9           environment -- China, as you know.  Iraq.  

10           Russia is exploring it.  The EU is exploring 

11           it -- and continuously the movement of 

12           cryptocurrency mining has happened in 

13           New York State.  Although you've probably 

14           heard I am absolutely interested in the 

15           expansion of cryptocurrency, it is unique 

16           from cryptocurrency mining, which is 

17           exclusive to proof of work.

18                  So there is a distinction between that 

19           one form of validation, which is the only one 

20           that uses a lot of energy.  So we do have a 

21           bill that's being explored, my bill, that 

22           would give us time, that would create a 

23           moratorium simply on proof of work, and only 

24           that using fossil fuels, because upstate we 


                                                                   142

 1           are experiencing huge increased consumption 

 2           because of proof of work affecting our local 

 3           communities and our environment.

 4                  So I wanted to just hear from you 

 5           whether or not you would be in support of a 

 6           moratorium that would allow us upstate to 

 7           really address these concerns and understand 

 8           the impact of proof of work.

 9                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you for that.  And 

10           let me --

11                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  I'm sorry, 

12           Mr. Mayor, but since the Assemblywoman used 

13           all of the time to ask the question and not 

14           leave you any to answer, I want to be fair to 

15           you.  So if you could -- if you could forward 

16           to Senator Liz Krueger and myself, if your 

17           office can forward the answers to her 

18           question, that would be much appreciated.

19                  And we will move on to the Senate.

20                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Yup.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

22                  Next is Senator Michelle Hinchey.

23                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Thank you, Chair.

24                  And Mayor, it's great to see you.  


                                                                   143

 1           Thank you for being here.

 2                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you.

 3                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  I have two quick 

 4           questions.  My first one -- or two questions, 

 5           I should say.  My first one is you and your 

 6           administration have prioritized food, 

 7           specifically healthy food.  And I really 

 8           appreciate that, as the chair of the Senate 

 9           Agriculture Committee.

10                  I ask you -- we know that food also is 

11           nutrition.  We know it's incredibly important 

12           for our students to eat healthy food.  We 

13           know it's important for everyone across all 

14           of our communities, especially in the City of 

15           New York, to be eating healthy, locally 

16           sourced food.  And the best food that we have 

17           at our fingertips is grown here in New York.

18                  So how can we work with you and your 

19           administration to make sure that more locally 

20           grown New York State food is coming into city 

21           agencies, the school system, as well as just 

22           more accessible to the people that you serve?

23                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you.  Thank you so 

24           much.  And, you know, this is a place out of 


                                                                   144

 1           my own heart.  You know how I feel about 

 2           nutrition.  And locally grown nutrition is 

 3           important, and that's part of the analysis we 

 4           want to look at.  You know, I'm a big 

 5           advocate on advancing urban agriculture and 

 6           locally grown food and have more to say on 

 7           this.  We're going to roll that -- a real 

 8           plan we want to do.

 9                  But I will say this.  Every agency 

10           where we feed people, we should not be 

11           feeding the crisis.  And that's what we're 

12           doing right now, in our schools, in our 

13           jails, in our hospitals.  If we are feeding 

14           you, we should feed you food that is not 

15           going to feed the chronic disease and 

16           healthcare crisis.  And that's our goal.  And 

17           I'm going to have Tiffany reach out to you 

18           with our whole food team and hear some of 

19           your ideas on what we can do.  

20                  But we want to do an analysis with our 

21           agencies:  If you're purchasing food, give me 

22           a reason why you're not purchasing it 

23           locally.  

24                  And then it's looking to the urban 


                                                                   145

 1           economy.  The urban economy, there's so many 

 2           jobs out there.  If we can do -- we can grow 

 3           our food locally, even in the city, using 

 4           hydroponics, vertical farming, other ways of 

 5           growing food.  Other states are leaning into 

 6           this space.  We need to be a leader in this 

 7           space, and I'm excited about the future on 

 8           how do we grow locally and how do we purchase 

 9           locally.  Because we can be a stabilizing 

10           purchasing procurement power to allow this 

11           new science to explore -- to grow even 

12           further.

13                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Great.  I appreciate 

14           that, and I look forward to hearing from 

15           Tiffany and your team because yes, we -- I'm 

16           fully supportive of urban agriculture, but at 

17           scale it's really upstate farms that are 

18           going to be able to do that.

19                  In my last 20 seconds -- I know you 

20           won't have time to answer it -- but to follow 

21           up with your office to -- I represent 

22           communities that surround much of the 

23           New York City Watershed, all of the New York 

24           City drinking water.  And because of that, 


                                                                   146

 1           because this land is pristine because it's 

 2           protected, New York City does not need a 

 3           filtration system.  If you did, that would be 

 4           tens of billions of dollars the city would 

 5           have to spend on a filtration system for that 

 6           water.

 7                  However, we have a lot of negative 

 8           impacts because of what we do to make sure 

 9           that the city has good, fresh, clean water.  

10           That's challenges with turbidity, with our 

11           fisheries, with our water sources, as well as 

12           stopping us from being able to build housing 

13           and other critically important resources.  

14                  And so I would like to work with you 

15           and your office to find some better equity in 

16           protecting New York City's water -- which is 

17           critically important, and we take that job 

18           really seriously -- but also making sure that 

19           the communities that then do that have equity 

20           and aren't being negatively impacted.

21                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you.

22                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

23                  We go to Assemblywoman González-Rojas.

24                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS:  Thank 


                                                                   147

 1           you, Mr. Mayor.

 2                  I believe strongly that policy should 

 3           be informed by research and data, and 

 4           research has shown that pretrial 

 5           incarceration, by stabilizing and -- 

 6           destabilizing and disrupting people's lives, 

 7           increases the likelihood of future arrests 

 8           and ultimately undermines the health and 

 9           safety of individuals and families and 

10           communities.

11                  So given this, why have you called for 

12           these rollbacks to bail reform that will 

13           ultimately lead to the incarceration of more 

14           New Yorkers pretrial?

15                  And I have one more question after 

16           that.

17                  MAYOR ADAMS:  So I'm glad you asked 

18           the question, because it gives me an 

19           opportunity over and over again to give 

20           clarity to what I am saying.

21                  I am not calling for the rollback of 

22           bail reform.  That is my lifework.  I know I 

23           did not serve in the Senate when you were 

24           there, but my Senators and colleagues would 


                                                                   148

 1           tell you that Eric Adams was the advocate for 

 2           the bill around the Rockefeller Drug Laws, to 

 3           stop women from being handcuffed when they 

 4           were pregnant in prison, the number of cases 

 5           that I brought to the Senate as a Senator to 

 6           show how we were inhumane in the criminal 

 7           justice arena.  But they will also tell you 

 8           something else:  Eric was clear that we 

 9           needed to have public safety.  

10                  So I'm clear on what the numbers are 

11           showing --

12                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS:  I 

13           understand, Mr. Mayor, but you are calling 

14           for changes to the system, and I want to 

15           understand exactly --

16                  MAYOR ADAMS:  The small number of 

17           people who are dangerous, they must not slip 

18           through the reform that we saw.  Don't roll 

19           back bail reform, don't roll back criminal 

20           justice, roll back the areas that's hurting 

21           public safety.  That is what I am saying.

22                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS:  Okay.  

23                  I thank you for your work and 

24           conversation on healthy food, and I also have 


                                                                   149

 1           some concerns about mayoral control of 

 2           schools, so this is where it comes together.  

 3           I appreciate the efforts to offer vegan meals 

 4           in schools, but as you've seen and know, this 

 5           is not quite the healthiest meal that I want 

 6           my child to eat in public school.  

 7                  Can you share how you're going to 

 8           address and ensure that our children actually 

 9           eat very healthy food in our schools as we're 

10           moving towards more options for vegan young 

11           people?

12                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you for that.  And 

13           I can't see the exact picture, but I believe 

14           that's the picture that was taken -- is that 

15           the official DOE picture or is that the 

16           picture that someone tweeted out?  Which one 

17           is that?

18                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS:  I'm not 

19           sure.  I think it was shared by a parent.

20                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Okay.  And let me tell 

21           you what happened.  A child chose food 

22           supplies -- in the picture that was tweeted 

23           out, they chose their meal for the day and 

24           they did not take some of the main stable 


                                                                   150

 1           foods that were present.  And so it gave this 

 2           impression that children were not going to be 

 3           fed correctly.  That is untrue.  We have a 

 4           nutritional obligation to give children a 

 5           balanced meal.  

 6                  This is what I do know.  Seventy 

 7           percent of 12-year-olds have early signs of 

 8           heart disease.  We have a crisis with 

 9           childhood obesity, a crisis with childhood 

10           diabetes.  We are feeding our children into 

11           that crisis.  We've got to do a better job, 

12           and I want to partner with you.  If there's 

13           some tweaks and changes you want to make, 

14           let's do it together.  Let's be partners to 

15           save our children.

16                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS:  Thank 

17           you very much.

18                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

19                  Back to the Senate.

20                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

21           much.  And we are up to the newest Senator, 

22           Cordell Cleare.

23                  SENATOR CLEARE:  Good morning, Mayor.

24                  First I want to say thank you for your 


                                                                   151

 1           office being responsive in my district to 

 2           heating and hot water complaints in two of my 

 3           housing developments over the last two 

 4           weekends.  

 5                  I just want to also echo the caution 

 6           raised by Assemblywomen Walker and Kelles 

 7           related to bail reform.  

 8                  And then I'm just going to ask a few 

 9           questions; I hope I leave time for you to 

10           answer them.  

11                  I'm asking that groups like Save East 

12           Harlem and Street Corner Resources are 

13           included at the table when gun violence is 

14           being discussed.  These are the groups that 

15           are on the ground defusing violence.  They 

16           are talking and working with people who are 

17           at-risk individuals.  And they also need 

18           additional resources to deal with the issues 

19           that those people are dealing with, the 

20           underlying conditions to some of the crime 

21           and violence that we see happening in the 

22           streets.

23                  I also want to deal with another 

24           public safety issue to me, and it really is 


                                                                   152

 1           serious though it may not sound that way.  

 2           But increased rats and garbage continue to be 

 3           a problem in our districts and in our 

 4           communities.  Increase in sanitation pickups 

 5           and replacement of the garbage cans that were 

 6           removed by the previous administration are 

 7           what my constituents are looking for.  

 8                  We would also -- parents are asking 

 9           for a parent representative from each borough 

10           on the PEP.  I know that you spoke about 

11           mayoral accountability earlier, but parents 

12           know best.  As a former school board member, 

13           as a former CEC member, parent association 

14           member, I really would like to see more 

15           parent participation and involvement at that 

16           level.

17                  Affordable housing is not affordable 

18           to many in my district.  Can you speak about 

19           your plans for low-income housing that they 

20           can afford?  

21                  And one of the keys to equity and 

22           fairness is economic empowerment.  Blacks 

23           make up approximately 23 percent of the 

24           population in New York City, yet less than 


                                                                   153

 1           3 percent of small businesses are owned by 

 2           Blacks.  Can you speak of your plans to 

 3           increase the number of businesses and support 

 4           the many who are struggling?

 5                  Thank you.

 6                  MAYOR ADAMS:  You gave me a nice 

 7           laundry list.

 8                  First of all, it's exciting to see you 

 9           up there in Albany.  Your years of advocacy 

10           is -- I think is needed to continue this 

11           conversation forward.  And I agree with you, 

12           the quality-of-life issues such as rats -- I 

13           recall a group of parents visiting me with a 

14           baby's head, rat bites on them.  And we 

15           implemented our Rat Trap that is going to be 

16           used in parts of the city to look at how we 

17           mitigate that real issue.

18                  I think it's crucial to deal with the 

19           sanitation issue that we're facing.  And so 

20           what I would do, Assemblywoman {sic}, because 

21           you gave me a nice list of -- Tiffany will 

22           reach out to you and we'll sit down and go 

23           through that list line by line, particularly 

24           around the economic opportunities in the 


                                                                   154

 1           city.

 2                  SENATOR CLEARE:  Thank you.  Good to 

 3           see you too, Tiffany.

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Helene.

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We're going to 

 6           go to Assemblywoman Seawright, three minutes.

 7                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  Thank you, 

 8           Chair Weinstein.

 9                  And Mr. Mayor, it's great to see you 

10           again.  Thank you.

11                  I have two questions.  One is more 

12           citywide, and one is more centric to the 

13           Roosevelt Island portion of my district.

14                  First I just want to say I'm honored 

15           to have Gracie Mansion in my district on the 

16           Upper East Side.  We are facing more and more 

17           development on the Upper East Side, with the 

18           unfortunate approval of the Blood Center 

19           expansion by the previous City Council.  More 

20           people, cars, traffic will be flowing into 

21           the neighborhood.

22                  How can we reinvigorate the 

23           neighborhood yet at the same time help our 

24           small businesses that are facing closure?  


                                                                   155

 1           We're seeing more and more crime around our 

 2           public schools.  And every day I'm hearing 

 3           from constituents walking into the office 

 4           with issues about affordable housing.

 5                  And then as far as Roosevelt Island, 

 6           it's governed by the Roosevelt Island 

 7           Operating Corporation.  As mayor, you have 

 8           appointments to that board.  And for several 

 9           years now there has been no woman appointed 

10           to the Roosevelt Island board.  So who is the 

11           point person on your team that I could sit 

12           down with and meet to review the composition 

13           of the board?

14                  MAYOR ADAMS:  First, I'm going to 

15           coordinate with you; Tiffany will call you.  

16           Let's take a trip out to Roosevelt Island 

17           together -- you know, I'm looking forward to 

18           that tram ride; I think it's one of the 

19           greatest attractions we have in the city -- 

20           so we can do a real analysis of the concerns 

21           there.

22                  And you should reach out to Deputy 

23           Mayor Maria Torres-Springer to talk about 

24           that board and moving forward with that 


                                                                   156

 1           board.  She's a person you should reach out 

 2           to in the office.  Tiffany will coordinate 

 3           that for you so we can, you know, zero in on 

 4           the things that you are concerned about.

 5                  And around development, you know, it's 

 6           imperative that we have to get our local 

 7           retail shops back up and operating.  I always 

 8           find it interesting, Assemblywoman, some of 

 9           the same people who talk about, you know, 

10           getting the stores open and the retailers 

11           open, they're quick to go to Amazon.  They 

12           don't know that they're impacting those 

13           everyday retail shops.

14                  We want to do some shop locally 

15           initiatives.  We want to get people back in 

16           those stores so they can hire.  Our retail 

17           shops are really dealing with a real crisis.  

18           And we -- it's imperative that our New York 

19           City economy remains competitive by having 

20           these shops opened up and operating.  And 

21           we're looking forward to partnering with our 

22           Committee of Small Businesses we have been 

23           meeting with, and we're going to continue to 

24           communicate with them and give them the 


                                                                   157

 1           support that they need.

 2                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  Thank you, 

 3           Mr. Mayor.

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Back to the 

 5           Senate.

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 7                  Senator Brad Hoylman is up next.

 8                  MAYOR ADAMS:  (Inaudible.)

 9                  SENATOR HOYLMAN:  Good morning, 

10           Mr. Mayor.  Good to see you. 

11                  A highlight of my daughter's recent 

12           young life was when she met you during the 

13           campaign and you relayed to her that she was 

14           dyslexic but you were too.  So thank you for 

15           that.

16                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you.

17                  SENATOR HOYLMAN:  Mr. Mayor, you 

18           recently came out in support of the Penn 

19           Station redevelopment project, I think this 

20           week, which as you know would not only 

21           redevelop Penn Station but also more than 

22           five and a half blocks in Midtown Manhattan, 

23           build up to 18 million square feet of new 

24           development -- basically the size of an 


                                                                   158

 1           additional Hudson Yards smack-dab in the 

 2           middle of Manhattan.

 3                  The project, as you know, isn't going 

 4           through the city's Uniform Land Use Review 

 5           process, instead going through the state's 

 6           general project plan, which cuts out a lot of 

 7           local decision-making.  The GPP envisions 

 8           that it would use a value capture framework, 

 9           including payments in lieu of taxes, which 

10           could result in New York City being deprived 

11           of up to $330 million a year in potential 

12           property tax revenue.

13                  Given the potential financing 

14           structure and the hit that might be to your 

15           finances, the city's finances, do you agree 

16           that we should have an assessment analyzing 

17           the potential impact on the project -- of the 

18           project on the city's finances before the 

19           state proceeds any further?

20                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Well, thanks, Brad.  

21                  First, I want to be clear:  We support 

22           the concept of the plan.  But we should 

23           continue to explore the potential amendments 

24           that are needed.  We support the concept of 


                                                                   159

 1           the plan.  There's a great opportunity there, 

 2           but we must get it right.  If we don't get it 

 3           right, as you just pointed out, we could lose 

 4           the benefits for our city.

 5                  So the concept of the plan we support, 

 6           but let's make sure we get it right.

 7                  Jacques, do you want to add anything 

 8           to that?

 9                  NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:  Yeah.  

10           We'll proceed with a cost-benefit analysis to 

11           see whether or not the project is worth, you 

12           know, while for the city to pursue.  So we'll 

13           continue to make adjustments to it, like the 

14           mayor said, and discuss with the state and, 

15           you know, in order to protect the revenue 

16           base of the city.

17                  SENATOR HOYLMAN:  Thank you.  And --

18                  MAYOR ADAMS:  The City -- the City 

19           Planning Commission made some great points, 

20           and we're going to, you know, take all of 

21           this into view as we move forward.  

22                  I thank you for raising that.

23                  SENATOR HOYLMAN:  Thank you, sir.

24                  And the last point I would make is -- 


                                                                   160

 1           in my remaining seconds is that right now the 

 2           plan envisions only 539 units of new 

 3           affordable housing.  That's across five and a 

 4           half blocks.  This is a great opportunity, I 

 5           think you'd agree, to build much more 

 6           affordable and supportive housing.

 7                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Well, I couldn't have 

 8           said it better.  If we want to deal with 

 9           underlying causes, we need to diversify where 

10           people live.  If we want to give people great 

11           access to schools, let's diversify housing.  

12           Great access to healthy food, let's diversify 

13           housing.  

14                  Housing is the diversification we need 

15           to stop a city that's segregated and that we 

16           are not allowing everyone to benefit from 

17           great transportation, food, education.  So 

18           I'm with you 100 percent, and Tiffany will do 

19           a follow-up so that we can further discuss 

20           it.  And I look forward to discussing it with 

21           you.

22                  SENATOR HOYLMAN:  Thank you, 

23           Mr. Mayor.

24                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Some while ago 


                                                                   161

 1           we were joined by Assemblyman Pretlow, 

 2           Assemblywoman Clark, and Assemblyman Burgos.

 3                  And we go to Assemblyman Sayegh for 

 4           three minutes.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN SAYEGH:  Thank you very 

 6           much, Madam Chair.

 7                  Mayor, I wanted to congratulate you 

 8           and really compliment you on addressing what 

 9           are key issues impacting not only New York 

10           City but the state.  And I represent the City 

11           of Yonkers, which is your neighbor to the 

12           north, so a lot of the similarities that 

13           impact New York City impact urban settings in 

14           cities like Yonkers, New York.

15                  Your focus on crime reduction, on 

16           education, healthcare, and small businesses 

17           is really crucial not only to the city but to 

18           many communities in Yonkers.  So I commend 

19           you on that, and I also wanted to express a 

20           very important concern.  

21                  As an Arab American, just following 

22           the discussions of Senator Liu, in addition 

23           to Black and Latino and people of color, 

24           there's a large component of Middle 


                                                                   162

 1           Easterners and others.  And having been 

 2           involved with a group called YAMA, Yemeni 

 3           American Merchants Association, they -- to my 

 4           surprise, they represent nearly 5,000 small 

 5           businesses -- grocery stores, stationery 

 6           stores -- and during the pandemic played a 

 7           very -- a crucial role.

 8                  We circulated a letter of support that 

 9           allows this association and its 

10           businesspeople that have been impacted by 

11           crime -- and in many cases murder -- to 

12           receive funding that would allow them to have 

13           special cameras within their stores and 

14           outside their stores so that they can -- law 

15           enforcement officials can help detect and 

16           resolve and investigate potential crime.

17                  I hope that the administration looks 

18           at efforts to support these initiatives and 

19           really, as you stated earlier, recognize that 

20           New York needs to keep New Yorkers in 

21           New York, to keep businesses in New York, and 

22           to really find common ground where we can 

23           address criminal justice in a way that 

24           addresses the needs and the concerns of all.


                                                                   163

 1                  Thank you, Mayor.

 2                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you.  

 3                  And first of all, you know, your 

 4           representation means so much.  To be the 

 5           first person of Jordanian American descent to 

 6           be elected is crucial.  When you talk about 

 7           YAMA, you're talking about my family.  Debbie 

 8           and Naji, they came to me when we did the 

 9           first bodega strike when Donald Trump wanted 

10           to do the Muslim ban.  

11                  My long record, even going back 

12           through in 2001 and 9/11, of standing with 

13           those of Muslim descent, Arab descent, and 

14           fighting against the horrific, draconian 

15           measures in law enforcement; starting the 

16           first Muslim association in the police 

17           department.  So there's a long record of my 

18           collaboration with you, and we're going to 

19           continue to do so together.  And I look 

20           forward to coming up and seeing you and 

21           speaking with you and have some great 

22           Jordanian coffee that I hear about.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN SAYEGH:  Thank you very 

24           much, Mayor.  Appreciate it.


                                                                   164

 1                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Back to the 

 2           Senate.

 3                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

 4           much.

 5                  And our next Senator is Senator 

 6           Gounardes.

 7                  SENATOR GOUNARDES:  Thank you very 

 8           much, Senator Krueger.

 9                  Hello, Mayor Adams.  Really great to 

10           see you at that side of the table.  

11                  I just first want to really just thank 

12           you for your laser focus on a targeted, 

13           multiprong approach to tackling gun violence.  

14           I think it's really, really important.  

15           There's a lot of pieces to that strategy, and 

16           we shouldn't let one or two pieces kind of 

17           crowd out all of the comprehensive approach 

18           that you're laying out with your public 

19           safety blueprint.  So I want to thank you for 

20           that.

21                  And I have a couple of quick 

22           questions.  First and foremost, I want to 

23           talk about resiliency, specifically in 

24           Southern Brooklyn, our coastal communities.  


                                                                   165

 1           Unfortunately, for the last decade we've seen 

 2           the impact of flooding from storm surges and 

 3           rainstorms.  But to date the city has really 

 4           only addressed resiliency as it relates to 

 5           Manhattan and has left out outer borough 

 6           neighborhoods all across the city.

 7                  And so I'd love to hear your thoughts 

 8           on what the city should be doing to improve 

 9           resiliency measures, you know, in those 

10           communities.

11                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you for that.

12                  And Andrew, you know, I cannot tell 

13           you how proud I am of what you have done.  As 

14           a former staffer in Borough Hall, you just 

15           really took the helm in your role as a State 

16           Senator and continue to touch on those very 

17           important topics, and particularly the one 

18           you're speaking on now with resiliency.  

19                  And I'm going to have Tiffany bring in 

20           our entire environmental team, our new head 

21           over at DEP and the entire team on this 

22           issue, and lay out in Southern Brooklyn some 

23           of the things that we want to do in Southern 

24           Brooklyn.  


                                                                   166

 1                  We should be clear on this, as you 

 2           stated.  When we talk about resiliency, 

 3           historically we left out Staten Island and we 

 4           left out Southern Brooklyn, we left out the 

 5           Rockaways, we left out those issues and areas 

 6           that were impacted, and we can't continue to 

 7           do so.  And so I agree with you 100 percent.  

 8           And we have a real outlook of how we're going 

 9           to use building out our resiliency plan with 

10           employment, because that's the combination.  

11           Far too often the local residents were not 

12           employed at some of the jobs that we want to 

13           put in place.

14                  And so I think that when you look at 

15           the Clean Water and Air and Green Jobs Bond 

16           Act, it's an important tool in ensuring the 

17           state is able to prioritize sustainability.  

18           And this is what we want to do.  And so I 

19           look forward for our team to sit down and 

20           hear some of your ideas as we look towards 

21           the future.

22                  SENATOR GOUNARDES:  Thank you.

23                  I have two other quick questions I'll 

24           lay out.  Number one, in your written 


                                                                   167

 1           testimony you've asked us to give you the 

 2           city authority to run their own speed camera 

 3           enforcement program, bus camera lane 

 4           enforcement program, and to revert home rule 

 5           back to the city over the city streets.  Can 

 6           you talk about your strategies around street 

 7           safety?  

 8                  And number two, what other ways can 

 9           both the state and city be supportive to our 

10           city university system?  And how can CUNY be 

11           leveraged to achieve some of the other goals 

12           that your administration is trying to lay 

13           out?

14                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  And before you 

15           even start to answer, Eric, you'll notice 

16           that Senator Gounardes has used up your 

17           clock.  So we're going to ask you to follow 

18           up with him or -- these are both important 

19           questions, so to all of us in writing, if 

20           your staff could please share that with 

21           Helene and I, and we will share it with all 

22           of the committee members.  Thank you.  

23                  Assembly.

24                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Will do.  It's a good 


                                                                   168

 1           thing having you as Finance chair, because 

 2           you watch the money like you watch the clock.

 3                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Damn right.  

 4           Thank you.  Thank you, Mayor Adams.

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

 6                  So we're going to go to Assemblywoman 

 7           Hyndman.  Is Alicia here?

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN HYNDMAN:  I'm here.  I'm 

 9           here.

10                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Okay, good.  I 

11           didn't see you.

12                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN HYNDMAN:  Thank you, 

13           Chair Weinstein.

14                  Mayor Adams, always good to speak with 

15           you.  I am wholly invested in the turnaround 

16           of our public schools, and I've only known 

17           the mayoral control model.  And I must say 

18           that previous administrations I don't believe 

19           were inclusive for parents and community.  

20           The turnaround of violence in our schools is 

21           not just your responsibility, it's also the 

22           parents' and the community's responsibility.  

23                  But I just wanted to ask you, what is 

24           your plan under mayoral accountability of 


                                                                   169

 1           involving parents and community members back 

 2           into our schools?

 3                  MAYOR ADAMS:  First of all, you know, 

 4           it was good seeing you last week at the 

 5           installation.  And you're right, you know, we 

 6           need a safe space for our children.  We can't 

 7           have children stabbed in school, weapons are 

 8           brought in school.  You know, it's just 

 9           unacceptable. 

10                  So there's a couple of things we must 

11           do.  Number one, Senator Comrie pointed to 

12           this.  I had something called the Extended 

13           Use Program as the borough president.  We 

14           want to make this citywide.  What it said is 

15           that local community-based organizations that 

16           would like to use school spaces should not 

17           have to pay to do so.  We should be paying 

18           for the school safety agents, for the staff 

19           that comes in.  This way we're allowing 

20           people to do their volunteerism.  

21                  Then you have great crisis management 

22           teams -- K. Bain, out in Queensbridge -- 

23           allowing them to put some of these good 

24           programs in place.  David Banks, he has been 


                                                                   170

 1           meeting with on-the-ground community groups 

 2           and organizations, the Rites of Passage 

 3           Program and teaching our young people how to 

 4           evolve into adulthood.  Having some real 

 5           programs in those schools -- financial 

 6           literacy, technology, robotics.

 7                  We are not using the school buildings 

 8           correctly.  They should be the focal point of 

 9           the community.  A school building is the only 

10           place where everyone, no matter what their 

11           language barrier may be, where they're 

12           comfortable going into.  We're not doing 

13           that, and I'm going to do that and encourage 

14           a better use of our school buildings and be 

15           preventive when we deal with this issue.

16                  And mayoral accountability is an 

17           extension.  In 2019, increased parental 

18           engagement.  And I want to continue to 

19           increase parental engagement and hear some of 

20           our feedback, Assemblywoman, on what we can 

21           do a better job as doing so.

22                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN HYNDMAN:  Thank you.  

23           And I just want to plus-one the previous 

24           speaker about resiliency in Southeast Queens.  


                                                                   171

 1           We definitely have a groundwater flooding 

 2           problem.  And as you know, Hurricane Ida did 

 3           the devastation in Hollis.  So we just want 

 4           to make sure that we work together in making 

 5           sure those homeowners are made whole.

 6                  So thank you.

 7                  (Off the record.)

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 9                  Our next speaker is Senator Gustavo 

10           Rivera.

11                  SENATOR RIVERA:  Thank you, Madam 

12           Chair.

13                  Good morning, Mr. Mayor.

14                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Hey, how you doing, 

15           Gustavo?

16                  SENATOR RIVERA:  Doing all right.

17                  Credit where credit is due first, sir. 

18           Certainly you have been responsive not only 

19           to many offices but certainly to my own.  I 

20           remember the conversation we had just a few 

21           weeks ago when you came to my district -- 

22           this is after that child was shot in the 

23           cheek -- and we had conversations with 

24           violence interrupters that were a very 


                                                                   172

 1           important part of it.  And we -- and I was 

 2           certainly very thankful that you came there, 

 3           and very thankful for some of the discussions 

 4           that we had privately.

 5                  Now, certainly what we've seen over 

 6           the last couple of hours has been the 

 7           definition of a honeymoon period, and 

 8           certainly you have earned it.  But a couple 

 9           of things, sir, that I want to make sure that 

10           I say.

11                  I want to certainly join 

12           Assemblymember Walker, Assemblymember Kelles, 

13           Assemblymember Mamdani, Assemblyman 

14           González-Rojas in their concerns about some 

15           of the stances that you have taken.  And this 

16           is what I would say, sir.  I am -- I would 

17           implore you to proceed with caution.  And 

18           when I say that, it is certainly recognizing 

19           that as you have reminded us many, many 

20           times, you certainly have been an advocate on 

21           issues of criminal justice when you were up 

22           here.  We served together, but you were here 

23           before me.  And certainly these are all facts 

24           that you point to.


                                                                   173

 1                  This does not, however, sir, excuse 

 2           you from what some folks have done to use 

 3           some of your statements in their efforts to 

 4           fearmonger.  Because it is a reality that as 

 5           far as discretion is concerned, there are 

 6           many instances in which judges already have 

 7           discretion and they have not used it.  

 8                  We also -- and you know this, as 

 9           somebody who has been an advocate.  The 

10           reason that you fought to change some of 

11           these laws is that you recognized that laws 

12           are not color-blind and that when you, for 

13           example, talk about dangerousness, the 

14           issue -- the reason why many of us are so 

15           concerned is because, as you yourself 

16           hopefully would recognize, when you create a 

17           piece of legislation language that seems 

18           color-blind, history has taught us that that 

19           is not the way that it is utilized.  So we 

20           have to be exceedingly careful as we 

21           establish any of these patterns.

22                  I would also, sir, ask you to 

23           consider, when you're talking about exploited 

24           youth, it was a little bit concerning to me 


                                                                   174

 1           when you both recognized that -- we were 

 2           talking about the potential changes to Raise 

 3           the Age -- you want to change the age, raise 

 4           the age pattern, what we did.  While you 

 5           recognize that some of these kids are 

 6           exploited, and yet you do not actually 

 7           recognize that we should focus on that 

 8           exploitation as opposed to just putting them 

 9           through a criminal justice process.

10                  Just -- I have 27 seconds.  This is 

11           more -- the question is a longer one, and 

12           this is all that I would ask you to do. 

13           Please, sir, be very cautious.  Because the 

14           process that we will undergo for the next 

15           couple of weeks and months has to be 

16           ultimately about public safety:  Communities 

17           are safer when they have more resources, not 

18           when they're overpoliced.  And these laws' 

19           changes that you seem to be supporting a 

20           change back to are not going to make us 

21           safer.

22                  Thank you for your time.

23                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you.

24                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.


                                                                   175

 1                  We go to Assemblyman Otis, three 

 2           minutes.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Thank you.

 4                  Mr. Mayor, congratulations and good 

 5           luck in your tenure.

 6                  I want to follow up on the 

 7           cryptocurrency question that you got a little 

 8           earlier, and an issue certainly a lot of us 

 9           are involved in, which is that there are 

10           multiple forms of cryptocurrency 

11           authentication.  There is one form, proof of 

12           work, that uses about a hundred times as much 

13           energy as the other forms, and is causing 

14           community problems upstate, water quality, 

15           air quality problems for upstate communities.  

16                  And the real threat is to our ability 

17           to beat climate change.  And we're not going 

18           to meet our targets if we have this new 

19           energy source when there are reasonable 

20           alternatives.

21                  So I think what I would ask is if you 

22           would sit down with some of the New York 

23           City-based advocates on this issue and walk 

24           through some of the differences in terms of 


                                                                   176

 1           types of cryptocurrency.  Cryptocurrency is a 

 2           great opportunity, economic opportunity for 

 3           the state and beyond, but there's one method 

 4           that really causes problems statewide, 

 5           nationwide, and internationally.

 6                  So any comments?  But we'd be happy to 

 7           set up a dialogue to get into these impacts 

 8           more closely with you and your team.

 9                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you so much.

10                  And clarity is important, because the 

11           lack of clarity brings a feeling of 

12           uncertainty.  And I want to be clear as much 

13           as possible.  I support cryptocurrency, not 

14           crypto mining.  And I think it's imperative 

15           that the lawmakers, you know, compel that we 

16           move forward to do the duality of ensuring 

17           innovation but not hurting our environment at 

18           the same time.

19                  And we can do so.  Because remember, 

20           we used to run cars on leaded gas.  And when 

21           we went to the auto industry and said, 

22           Listen, that game is over, they pushed back.  

23           But we compelled them to move to unleaded.

24                  And then we said it's time for us to 


                                                                   177

 1           go to electric cars, and we compelled them to 

 2           go to electric cars.  That is what evolution 

 3           is about.  We cannot be afraid of evolution.  

 4           My goal is to make New York City the 

 5           innovation capital, where our young people 

 6           can be employed in these new industries that 

 7           are growing around us, and then use the right 

 8           laws to make sure they don't abuse the 

 9           economy or abuse our environment.

10                  And so we're really looking forward to 

11           sitting down, speaking with some of the 

12           leaders in this industry.  And because 

13           nothing gave me a greater joy when I walked 

14           into Marcy Housing and a young person said to 

15           me, "Hey, I heard you're taking your paycheck 

16           in cryptocurrencies.  Can I do the same?"

17                  This is how we excite growth, by using 

18           my bully pulpit to talk about innovation that 

19           has historically been ignored in the inner 

20           cities of our state, not only New York City.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Thank you, 

22           Mr. Mayor.  We'll work with you.

23                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you, back 

24           to the Senate.


                                                                   178

 1                  Senator Sue Serino.

 2                  SENATOR SERINO:  Thank you so much, 

 3           Madam Chair.  

 4                  And thank you, Mayor Adams, for being 

 5           here today.

 6                  I would just like to really say thank 

 7           you.  Thank you for your advocacy for giving 

 8           judges the ability to consider dangerousness 

 9           as a tweak to bail reform.  You know, I've 

10           carried a bill since 2019 after hearing how 

11           dangerous the bail reform changes could be 

12           for victims of domestic violence.  And that 

13           actually came from the domestic violence 

14           advocates.  

15                  We had a press conference when all of 

16           this first happened, and this was not an R or 

17           a D thing.  There were Democratic DAs, 

18           Democratic law enforcement and victims at our 

19           press conference.  And sadly, it's turned 

20           into this, you know, at the risk of public 

21           safety.  

22                  But I encourage you to take a look at 

23           my bill, which is Senate Bill 6947.  

24                  My question for you today, Mayor, is 


                                                                   179

 1           there a model, maybe from another state, that 

 2           fairly considers dangerousness that you would 

 3           like to see New York consider?  You know, for 

 4           example, New York has a risk assessment tool 

 5           that they use.  And I just really wanted to 

 6           get your thoughts on this since you're 

 7           somebody that had skin in the game for so 

 8           many years, and I just would like to hear 

 9           your thoughts.

10                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you for that 

11           question.  Because I think that's something 

12           that many people overlook when we talk about 

13           considering dangerousness, domestic violence 

14           victims.

15                  The number of cases that a person was 

16           in jail for domestic violence only to leave 

17           the courtroom and go further assault or kill 

18           the person who was the original 

19           complainant -- we often overlook that.  And 

20           we need to be clear that looking at 

21           dangerousness is more than just gun crimes.  

22           It's looking at those who continue to 

23           perpetrate or continue to carry out dangerous 

24           actions.  You can't walk out of a courtroom 


                                                                   180

 1           and -- say in a courtroom that I'm going back 

 2           and commit a hate crime, and then we just let 

 3           you just walk out of the courtroom.  

 4                  So we need to really understand the 

 5           fullness and the scope of a judge having 

 6           someone in front of them making sure that 

 7           person is dangerous with an imminent 

 8           dangerousness to society.  We need to take it 

 9           into consideration.  And that's what I talk 

10           about when we do so.

11                  But there must be transparency to make 

12           sure a judge is not abusing that authority to 

13           evaluate dangerousness.  And so we're going 

14           to look at all models.  

15                  And that's what our criminal justice 

16           team is doing.  My deputy mayor of public 

17           safety is doing a real analysis to see who 

18           has it right.  But again, we're not looking 

19           to reform my lifework that has been 

20           materialized in Albany.  We're looking to 

21           make sure that balance of justice is safety.  

22           And that's the tweak that we talk about.

23                  SENATOR SERINO:  Thank you so much for 

24           your very thoughtful comments.  I really 


                                                                   181

 1           appreciate it.  I look forward to working 

 2           with you on this.  Thank you.

 3                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you.

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 5                  Back to the Assembly.

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Yes, we go to 

 7           Assemblyman Burgos.

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS:  Thank you, Chair.

 9                  Good afternoon, Mr. Mayor.  Thanks for 

10           being here today.

11                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Kenny, how are you?

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS:  I'm good.  How 

13           are you doing?

14                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Good.

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS:  Well, I'll start 

16           off -- I won't spend the three minutes on 

17           bail reform.  I just want to echo and support 

18           what many of my colleagues have stated.  I 

19           think I cannot put it better than my 

20           colleague Latrice Walker.  

21                  But I do look forward to a more 

22           fruitful conversation on how to combat gun 

23           violence, you know, through city, through 

24           state and through federal legislation.  


                                                                   182

 1           Specifically I think, you know, Congress's 

 2           bill on background checks and gun trafficking 

 3           are going to help combat this, because it's a 

 4           problem nationwide.  So I do want to echo 

 5           that support.

 6                  I want to compliment you, Mr. Mayor, 

 7           on your commitment to health.  You know, I 

 8           represent an area of the Bronx -- and we know 

 9           the Bronx is the 62nd unhealthiest county out 

10           of 62 counties in this state.  And I'm a big 

11           believer that health is a precondition to 

12           all -- to many of our issues here in our 

13           borough.  So consider me a partner in that, 

14           and I look forward to working with you there.

15                  What I want to spend my time here on, 

16           my question is on NYCHA.  I represent over a 

17           dozen NYCHAs, every kind of development you 

18           can think of.  And I have a building right 

19           now, a senior building that is on the brink 

20           of being condemned.  And this is just the tip 

21           of the iceberg.  I have developments with 

22           external boilers for over a decade.  And this 

23           winter season seems to be the worst, because 

24           these issues have gone unattended and frankly 


                                                                   183

 1           mismanaged.  

 2                  And I don't blame you for the failures 

 3           of NYCHA because you obviously inherited much 

 4           of this.  But what I do want to hear from you 

 5           is how you plan to work on this management 

 6           issue.  I have -- I spend much of my day 

 7           sending -- taking numbers, complaints, and 

 8           just trying to help my constituents have a 

 9           livable home.  And I'll be very honest with 

10           you, a lot of this falls on the management 

11           team at these specific developments.  So I 

12           need to hear from you how we plan to combat 

13           these issues at NYCHA, that we need capital 

14           dollars but we need the right management.

15                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Well said.

16                  And first of all -- and I agree with 

17           you on -- listen, Latrice is a friend, I have 

18           much respect.  And people shouldn't take the 

19           passion that she showed as that there's not a 

20           real relationship here.  What she has done in 

21           Brownsville is just commendable.  And that is 

22           my friend.  And I look forward to speaking 

23           with you and others.  I'll be up in Albany 

24           next week, and we could sit down and further 


                                                                   184

 1           have this conversation.  

 2                  And I agree with you on health.  

 3           Listen, brother, you're the only cat I know 

 4           that looks better in a suit than I do, man.  

 5           You are -- you know, you believe in health, 

 6           you stay in shape.  And we need to make sure 

 7           all of our children are doing the same thing.

 8                  Lastly, on NYCHA.  NYCHA's sad.  NYCHA 

 9           is operating in this black, dark hole.  No 

10           one knows what's going on.  We need to know 

11           the dollars that are being spent, allocated.  

12           When the Build Back Better bill is passed and 

13           we get billions of dollars coming to NYCHA, 

14           if we put it back in the same mechanism and 

15           management style, we're going to waste this 

16           opportunity.

17                  I am dead on with you:  We've got to 

18           zero in on NYCHA.  Tiffany's going to reach 

19           out to you while I'm up in Albany.  I want to 

20           sit down and speak with you, and let's figure 

21           out the things we need to do together.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS:  Thank you.

23                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

24                  Next we have Robert Jackson.


                                                                   185

 1                  SENATOR JACKSON:  Mayor Adams, let me 

 2           just say to everyone listening, I tested 

 3           COVID-19 this morning and I drove all the way 

 4           home listening to the testimony coming in, 

 5           and now I'm back at my home so I can ask my 

 6           question.

 7                  UFT said on the record that New York 

 8           City DOE is not in compliance with their 

 9           contract regarding class size.  When asked 

10           what changes K-12 parents would like to see 

11           in their children's school, smaller class 

12           size came as number one, the top priority, 

13           every year that DOE has surveyed.

14                  Do you have a plan to ensure that 

15           New York City students receive smaller 

16           classes?  And are you planning to work with 

17           the state to use your funds and additional 

18           funds under the Contract for Excellence 

19           towards this goal?

20                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Listen, you hear it over 

21           and over, Robert.  And, you know, you're dead 

22           on.  

23                  First of all, all the parents -- you 

24           know, it's a lesson that many of us don't 


                                                                   186

 1           know.  All the parents need to know what 

 2           you've done around Campaign for Fiscal 

 3           Equity.  This was your fight.

 4                  SENATOR JACKSON:  It was our fight.

 5                  MAYOR ADAMS:  And getting that money 

 6           in our schools was imperative.  And so we do 

 7           want smaller class sizes.  It ranks 

 8           number one year after year.  I hear it with 

 9           educators as well, smaller class sizes.

10                  But we have to do it right.  A bill 

11           that was going to come through the City 

12           Council to talk about smaller class sizes was 

13           just not going to be economically feasible at 

14           the time.  Let's find the right way to do it 

15           to get the smaller class sizes that we 

16           deserve.

17                  But let's be clear on this also, and 

18           I'm sure you will agree.  No matter how small 

19           the class sizes are, if we don't have the 

20           right resources and the right, trained 

21           educators and the right finances in our 

22           schools, we're not going to hit the targets 

23           that we need.  And that's my goal, to do so.  

24           And we're going to analyze the class sizes --


                                                                   187

 1                  SENATOR JACKSON:  And I totally agree 

 2           with you.  I just got to -- I have to move to 

 3           my second question because I'm limited with 

 4           time.

 5                  So as in every industry there are good 

 6           cops and there are bad ones.  The same goes 

 7           for elected public officials.  New York City 

 8           has only limited the defense of qualified 

 9           immunity for the NYPD in cases of 

10           Fourth Amendment violations, unreasonable 

11           search and seizure.  

12                  I carry a bill that people -- to hold 

13           people accountable when they violate a 

14           person's civil rights.  And do you believe 

15           that police officers should be held 

16           accountable for their misconduct when they 

17           violate the civil rights of a person, not 

18           just the Fourth Amendment?  And do you 

19           believe that qualified immunity should still 

20           exist, seeing how it is a judicially made 

21           doctrine that prevents any accountability for 

22           misconduct?

23                  MAYOR ADAMS:  So let's peel it in 

24           pieces so we don't put it together.


                                                                   188

 1                  SENATOR JACKSON:  Okay.

 2                  MAYOR ADAMS:  One, violation of civil 

 3           rights, I say yes to that.

 4                  Two, police officers who are carrying 

 5           out their jobs, such as going after someone 

 6           that robs a bank, they discharge their 

 7           weapon, the bullet hits an innocent person.  

 8           That police officer should not be sued for 

 9           that.  They were carrying out their jobs 

10           acting in accordance with their duties.

11                  Those who are not acting in accordance 

12           with their duties, that's an entirely 

13           different conversation.  And we need to be 

14           very careful when we lay that out that we're 

15           not doing it to penalize those who are doing 

16           their jobs.

17                  SENATOR JACKSON:  Thank you.  My time 

18           is up.  I do have some additional questions, 

19           and I'll follow up.

20                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  Feel 

21           better, Robert.  Thank you.

22                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you.  

23                  SENATOR JACKSON:  Thank you.

24                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Assembly.


                                                                   189

 1                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  I think it's up 

 2           to me.  We have no other Assemblymembers, and 

 3           we're not going to open up the list any 

 4           further.

 5                  So Mayor, so it's great to see you 

 6           here with us, and so many of the questions 

 7           relating to the fiscal situation of the city 

 8           and state have been asked.  I want to just 

 9           raise a few questions that are a little bit 

10           more local.

11                  And I guess I would start with one of 

12           the problems that under the prior 

13           administration we had in some instances was a 

14           lack of community notification when 

15           facilities were coming into our districts, 

16           both to the community and to elected 

17           officials.  And I would point out one 

18           instance was where a hotel -- and I say 

19           "hotel" in air quotes -- was opened and then 

20           immediately was populated with people -- sex 

21           offenders who were just released from prison 

22           and others released from prison through the 

23           Mayor's Office of Criminal Justice contract.  

24           And we only found out about it when people 


                                                                   190

 1           looked in the Sex Offender Registry and saw 

 2           that they were offenders listed there, along 

 3           with Councilwoman Farah Louis, we were able 

 4           to get the city, after months, to rescind 

 5           that contract.

 6                  But I think it points out the need for 

 7           better communications when there are 

 8           facilities opening in members' districts.

 9                  Let me just go through a couple of 

10           short things, and then if there's time left 

11           you can respond.  I'm sure there will be.

12                  I just want to echo some of the 

13           comments members made about the importance of 

14           trying to fix NYCHA.  

15                  And I represent, I think as you know, 

16           a number of city -- a large number of city 

17           retirees.  And I know that you released a 

18           statement on Sunday saying that your 

19           administration has reviewed this movement to 

20           managed care for retirees.  But I would just 

21           ask you to really re-look at defending this 

22           move.  I know there's a court date at the end 

23           of this month, on the 28th.  And while it may 

24           be in the interests of taxpayers in terms of 


                                                                   191

 1           saving some money, I don't believe it's in 

 2           the best interests of retirees because 

 3           particularly a lot of our older retirees who 

 4           can't -- or are on low pensions can't afford 

 5           the $2300 a year to opt out.  And under this 

 6           managed care I've been hearing from people 

 7           that they need preauthorization for just 

 8           about every procedure.

 9                  So if you want to respond to some of 

10           those.  And I guess I just also want to say 

11           it's great to see you where you are.  I know 

12           you've been such a strong advocate as borough 

13           president; I stood with you many times 

14           fighting hate crime.  And I really look 

15           forward to working with you in this new role.

16                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you so much.  And 

17           I'm really excited about doing the same, 

18           Assemblywoman, working with many of you.  

19           Many of you I know personally, you have been 

20           fighting these important issues for a long 

21           time.  And this is our opportunity to align 

22           ourselves together.

23                  Dealing with, number one, the retirees 

24           issues.  You know, I'm a retired guy.  And I 


                                                                   192

 1           was fearful when I heard about the first 

 2           proposal, and I immediately reached out to 

 3           some of the union heads to find out what was 

 4           going on.  And when they had us sit down and 

 5           we did a very thorough and careful review.  

 6                  This administration, I believe the new 

 7           program would be in the best interests of the 

 8           retirees and the city taxpayers.  We stand to 

 9           save -- think about it -- $600 million 

10           annually.  And the quality of care -- and I 

11           made them go through it line by line, to make 

12           sure we were not hurting our retirees in any 

13           way.

14                  And my goal, what I must do now is to 

15           give a clear understanding and explanation to 

16           our retirees to see how this is not going to 

17           impact their quality of care.  And -- because 

18           that's the quality of my care.  And I believe 

19           once they hear it, they will not go by just 

20           some of the sound bites that were put out 

21           there, to feel as though they're going to 

22           lose their retirees.

23                  We have a real crisis with our 

24           healthcare system, and I'm going to need your 


                                                                   193

 1           help around this.  The amount that our 

 2           hospitals are charging for procedures, we 

 3           have to rein this under control.  Union heads 

 4           are going in, negotiating pay increases for 

 5           their members only to lose it based on 

 6           medical procedures.  You could go to 

 7           different medical procedures and get a 

 8           different outcome based on what hospital you 

 9           go to.  We must really rein in the problems 

10           of the cost of healthcare in our city.

11                  In the area of the reentry hotels, the 

12           reentry hotels were opened as a temporary 

13           response to COVID.  We had to deal with 

14           placing people in housing to stop the spread 

15           of COVID.  It was a public health emergency.  

16           And we're going to always strive to do the 

17           notifications properly.

18                  And I want to hear your thoughts on 

19           how we could do it better, because many 

20           people -- my local electeds talked about this 

21           notification problem.  And so Tiffany's going 

22           to reach out, when I get up to Albany.  You 

23           know, just think of some ways we can do a 

24           better job in doing so.  Because we want a 


                                                                   194

 1           partnership in doing so.

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  I 

 3           look forward to having those conversations 

 4           and a long working relationship with you.

 5                  Back to the Senate.

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 7                  Senator Salazar.

 8                  SENATOR SALAZAR:  Thank you.

 9                  Good afternoon, Mr. Mayor.  Thank you 

10           for spending time in Bushwick this week.

11                  I have a lot of questions, but I will 

12           save them for another time.  I'll focus on 

13           the Executive Budget in our city.

14                  The creation and preservation of truly 

15           affordable housing is very important to me, 

16           but the 421-a housing program has really been 

17           a massive tax giveaway to corporate 

18           landlords.  It's seriously lacked 

19           accountability, it's failed to deliver on 

20           promises both in terms of affordable housing 

21           created and quality jobs for union workers.

22                  The Executive Budget proposal for 

23           485-w is not meaningfully different from the 

24           existing 421-a program.  Could you perhaps 


                                                                   195

 1           elaborate on potential changes that you would 

 2           support to the program outlined in the 

 3           Executive Budget, or how we could justify 

 4           continuing a program like this given the 

 5           massive homelessness and affordability crisis 

 6           that our city is facing?

 7                  MAYOR ADAMS:  A real crisis.  And 

 8           Senator Salazar, I would like to hear some of 

 9           your ideas on this.  

10                  I am a supporter of the Governor's 

11           plan.  I think that we need to do it 

12           strategically.  It should not be just a 

13           blanket anywhere.  There's certain areas we 

14           need to continue to promote development and 

15           do so with affordable housing.  If there's 

16           some specific areas that you feel that we 

17           should, you know, tweak, I am looking forward 

18           to having Jessica Katz -- and I would also 

19           like to join that meeting, because you have 

20           been an advocate around affordable housing.  

21           You know, there's some areas that you and I 

22           will disagree on.  

23                  But listen, I'm clear, when we rolled 

24           out our affordable housing stock, I said, 


                                                                   196

 1           Listen, reach out, get a temperature check 

 2           with Senator Salazar.  You have been strong 

 3           on this.  You saw the displacement in your 

 4           district, and you have been fighting against 

 5           that.  And so I am interested to hear what we 

 6           need to do differently in this 421-a program.

 7                  I am a supporter of what the Governor 

 8           is doing, but I'm open to hearing your 

 9           thoughts around this issue and making sure 

10           that we do it in a fair way.

11                  SENATOR SALAZAR:  Thank you, 

12           Mr. Mayor.  I'm looking forward to discussing 

13           it further with you.

14                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you.

15                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

16                  I see you do have another hand, 

17           Helene, so I go to you.

18                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Yes, to the 

19           second round.  I was just the last on the 

20           first round.  

21                  The second round, Assemblyman 

22           Braunstein, three minutes.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Thank you, 

24           Chair Weinstein.  And I'm sorry to come back 


                                                                   197

 1           for a second round -- I know it's been 

 2           long -- but I just have one question that 

 3           needs clarifying.

 4                  Mr. Mayor, thank you for your time.

 5                  So earlier today during the question 

 6           and answer you had indicated at one point 

 7           that you had concerns about the Governor's 

 8           ADU proposal and that you prefer local 

 9           government control.  You indicated that you 

10           don't think a one-size-fits-all approach 

11           works for the City of New York.

12                  And then later, again, you said that 

13           you wholeheartedly support the Governor's ADU 

14           proposal.

15                  You know, for me, I represent 

16           Northeast Queens, where we have a lot of 

17           single-family homes, and my preference would 

18           be for the local government to have input on 

19           whether or not we legalize ADUs or -- which 

20           includes basements, garages, building 

21           structures on people's property four feet up 

22           to the property line.

23                  I have concerns about that.  A lot of 

24           the other local governments in the state have 


                                                                   198

 1           concerns about that.  I'm just looking to 

 2           clarify.  So do you support the Governor's 

 3           ADU proposal that completely cuts out local 

 4           control?  Or do you support the Governor's 

 5           proposal, you know, in theory that we'd like 

 6           to do something to legalize existing basement 

 7           apartments and address the issues that we saw 

 8           with Ida with the flooding, but not 

 9           completely cut the city out of the land use 

10           process?

11                  MAYOR ADAMS:  My apologies if there 

12           was a lack of clarity.

13                  I support conceptually what the 

14           Governor is attempting to do.  But, you know, 

15           we always say this in Albany, the devil is in 

16           the details.  It's imperative, for me, to 

17           empower the local municipalities to be able 

18           to deal with those issues that are uniquely 

19           impacting their communities.  And I think 

20           there's room to sit down and get this right, 

21           as we should get it right.

22                  So conceptually, I'm on board with 

23           what the Governor's attempting to do, but we 

24           need to empower local municipalities to 


                                                                   199

 1           understand the uniqueness of their 

 2           communities.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Okay, thank 

 4           you.

 5                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you.

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Back, Senator 

 7           Krueger, to you.

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 9                  I think I'm closing, Mayor Adams, for 

10           the Senate.  Nice to see you back up here in 

11           Albany.  It's been a while.

12                  So you and I don't always agree on 

13           everything, and that's what makes horse 

14           racing.  I just want to urge you to think 

15           about when you talk about the crisis of crime 

16           in the city and the violence with guns -- 

17           which is very real -- there's also the danger 

18           that perception becomes reality.  Because I 

19           just want to say it out loud:  You're the 

20           mayor of one of the safest cities in the 

21           world.  

22                  And so even though we have problems, 

23           we want to make it clear, we're one of the 

24           safest cities in the world.  


                                                                   200

 1                  My community wants community policing 

 2           desperately.  They keep saying to me, why 

 3           don't we see the police on the streets?  We 

 4           are seeing crimes, we're seeing crimes that 

 5           we don't think would be there if we saw more 

 6           police on the streets.  So can I ask you 

 7           where you are on the philosophy of community 

 8           policing.

 9                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you for that, Liz.  

10           And one thing I enjoy about my interaction 

11           with you throughout the years, even when we 

12           disagree, we're not disagreeable.  We're able 

13           to have great conversations and stand on 

14           issues that we align.

15                  I am a strong believer in community 

16           policing.  And this is one way of getting 

17           there, civilianizing the department.  Too 

18           many officers are in civilian positions in 

19           our police department.  We need to 

20           civilianize that.

21                  Second, we need to look at how do we 

22           have New York City residents become police 

23           officers.  I'm looking at my school safety 

24           agents, traffic enforcement agents, 


                                                                   201

 1           correction officers -- all of these entities 

 2           where they are 100 percent New York City 

 3           residents, allowing them to cycle into the 

 4           police department.  That is imperative.  

 5           They're New Yorkers, they would be our 

 6           residents next door, they live here, our tax  

 7           dollars will stay here, and that's important.

 8                  And third, my conversation with the 

 9           police commissioner:  We need to be visible.  

10           It's about what we're doing in the transit 

11           system, where police officers in the local 

12           precinct, they are now doing subway 

13           inspections.  This has increased visibility 

14           in our subway system to show that police 

15           officers are doing what you're talking about, 

16           and that is what's considered omnipresence.  

17           We need the visibility of our symbol of 

18           public protection, and we could accomplish 

19           that task.

20                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

21                  I also don't want to be accused of 

22           having a frozen clock without noticing it, so 

23           I just -- we do have our eye on the clock.  I 

24           don't think it's a gift to me per se.


                                                                   202

 1                  You also -- even though it's not 

 2           budget-related, I know you like 

 3           cryptocurrency.  I just want to urge you, as 

 4           you move forward, listen to the arguments 

 5           from the environmental perspective, and you 

 6           already addressed that.  But also please be 

 7           aware that the Federal Trade Commission says 

 8           that cryptocurrency scams are now the 

 9           fastest-growing financial loss for people in 

10           this country.  And so we have to be extremely 

11           careful that we are emphasizing financial 

12           education of people, not just jumping to 

13           whatever's new, because people can lose their 

14           shirts.  And they are losing their shirts.  

15           So it's just urging you to keep your eye on 

16           that set of information out there.

17                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Yes, and I agree.  I 

18           agree.  And we are looking through that, and 

19           we need to move in a very smart way.

20                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

21                  We do completely agree that we need to 

22           address the issues of the number of mentally 

23           ill people acting out on the streets of 

24           New York without homes, without healthcare 


                                                                   203

 1           services, without the right kinds of 

 2           treatment plans.  And the solution cannot be 

 3           throwing them into Rikers and just making 

 4           everything worse, and it has been.  And it 

 5           also cannot be 24 hours in an emergency room 

 6           somewhere in New York City, released back 

 7           into the streets.

 8                  And I know you agree with me.  So tell 

 9           me what we can do together to change that 

10           storyline.

11                  MAYOR ADAMS:  A couple of things.  

12           Liz, it shocked me when I started to examine 

13           what do we do when people who are dealing 

14           with a mental health crisis and you call 

15           police.  And when I heard that we take them 

16           to Rikers, it just -- it's just unbelievable.  

17           To have 48 percent of the prison population 

18           dealing with mental health illnesses, that is 

19           just a failing revolving door process.

20                  I brought on board Dr. Vasan to head 

21           my commission of -- Department of Health and 

22           Mental Hygiene.  You may be familiar; he came 

23           from Fountain House.  I talked about it all 

24           the time on the campaign trail.  It's the 


                                                                   204

 1           combination of having mental health 

 2           professionals giving wraparound services.  

 3           But we also need your help.  We need more 

 4           psychiatric beds.  Those areas where people 

 5           are a danger to themselves and others, we 

 6           can't allow them to remain on the streets.  

 7           We can't allow them to use our subway system 

 8           as a place where they're receiving their 

 9           help.

10                  We recently launched a city/state 

11           partnership to more strategically deploy 

12           resources to those with mental health crises.  

13           We believe it's going to have a big payoff 

14           and turnaround.  But your help in ensuring we 

15           can get more psychiatric beds will be 

16           extremely helpful.  And we hope to release a 

17           more robust street homelessness and mental 

18           health strategy in the next couple of days.  

19           We put a good team together.  Deputy Mayor 

20           Williams-Isom, she understands this.  There 

21           needs to be compassion and a very thoughtful 

22           way of giving those people the help they 

23           need.

24                  When we closed down mental health 


                                                                   205

 1           facilities, that was commendable, but we did 

 2           not have the services for those who needed 

 3           help.  And then I want you to look at family 

 4           members.  We have many cases where family 

 5           members are saying their loved ones are in 

 6           need of help, but they're restricted on how 

 7           much they can have them get that help that 

 8           they deserve.  And so it's a combination of 

 9           things that must come from Albany, and I 

10           really need your help in this area.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Great.  And I 

12           would like to work with you on that.

13                  I will recommend to you that the city 

14           has a model called Safe Haven shelters, and I 

15           am a fan of that.  It is intensive services 

16           for people who have been unwilling to come 

17           off the streets into other shelters.  And I 

18           have seen it be very effective for getting 

19           some of the folks we really need off the 

20           streets into services, to be able to be 

21           willing to come in for services.  

22                  I also think you need to think about 

23           requiring hospitals in New York City to have 

24           more psychiatric beds available and not just 


                                                                   206

 1           for 24-hour observation.  Because nobody in 

 2           this situation's getting better in 24 hours.

 3                  MAYOR ADAMS:  So true.  So true.

 4                  And we've -- I've partnered with the 

 5           Nurses Association and stood with them to 

 6           talk about that as the borough president, and 

 7           I continue to speak with them about that.  

 8           And I really want to have Tiffany bring my 

 9           DSS Commissioner Gary Jenkins together with 

10           you and sit down and talk about this. 

11                  But there's something else you said, 

12           if I can, at the beginning of the 

13           conversation.  You know, Senator Krueger, 

14           people often talk about my initiative around 

15           ending gun violence and they point to just 

16           one area.  That's a comprehensive plan.  

17           Because you're right, if we don't deal with 

18           the feed-ins of violence we're never going to 

19           address violence.  And we need to highlight 

20           the parts of that that I talk about.  Let's 

21           stop feeding the crises and the violence that 

22           we're seeing.  Let's not zero in on the one 

23           point we disagree, I say to my colleagues 

24           that's on here.  Let's zero in on the areas 


                                                                   207

 1           we agree.  

 2                  Like this Clean Slate New York 

 3           campaign.  I'm a strong supporter of that.  

 4           Seven years after a felony, having your 

 5           record sealed; three years after a 

 6           misdemeanor, having your record sealed.  

 7           These are the things that we can do.  These 

 8           are the things I fought for.  And I want to 

 9           be a continuing advocate and partner to make 

10           them come to fruition.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Great.

12                  I want to applaud your proposal to 

13           expand the EITC credit, because it absolutely 

14           has proven to be an effective way to get more 

15           money in the pockets of lowest-income working 

16           people.  And I will explore the proposal for 

17           what the state would do, because that was a 

18           little vaguer in your testimony.

19                  But I also -- because of that, I want 

20           to highlight that I hope you'll join many of 

21           us in the Legislature in pointing out to the 

22           Governor that the concept of a one-time bonus 

23           for home care workers is not only inadequate 

24           to recruit home care workers that we need, 


                                                                   208

 1           but also can put these people on a cliff 

 2           where they lose more in SNAP, public 

 3           assistance benefits, subsidized childcare, 

 4           even Medicaid, than they would ever see in 

 5           the $3,000 bonus.  And we even had people 

 6           say, well, we'll try to make it exempt.  But 

 7           most of those are programs with federal laws.  

 8           While if you go to a tax credit such as EITC, 

 9           you can actually make it exempt for these 

10           purposes.  

11                  So I applaud you and hope you'll work 

12           with us to fine-tune what I believe was the 

13           Governor's good intent but that may not 

14           actually have a good result.

15                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Well said.  Well said.  

16           And, you know, as you indicated which is so 

17           important, you know, that the EITC -- we 

18           increase EITC, it won't impact the federal 

19           benefits once we get the waiver.  It's a plan 

20           that's already in place.  And people will do 

21           the right thing with those dollars.  I think 

22           you're dead-on about that.

23                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

24                  And tax policy.  So I disagree with 


                                                                   209

 1           some people from Lower Manhattan, but I think 

 2           it's way past time to end the Lower Manhattan 

 3           tax credits.  It's actually resulted in a 

 4           competition between businesses in different 

 5           areas of the city, because you get a bigger 

 6           tax credit if you go to Lower Manhattan -- 

 7           which is overheated, frankly, Lower 

 8           Manhattan, at the cost of other boroughs.

 9                  So I'm just curious whether you've had 

10           a chance to look at that question.

11                  MAYOR ADAMS:  I'm going to turn it 

12           over to Jacques.  Jacques, you want to touch 

13           on that a minute?  

14                  NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:  Well, I 

15           don't think we should look at it at -- one at 

16           the expense of the other.  Lower Manhattan 

17           right now is also suffering because of the 

18           past two years.  So there is still a need to 

19           continue to try to bring businesses to 

20           Lower Manhattan.

21                  Whether we should explore, you know, a 

22           credit for other areas of the city, that's a 

23           question that we should look into.

24                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Well, I will just 


                                                                   210

 1           point out there was a recent study showing 

 2           it's the most unaffordable area of the five 

 3           boroughs, so suffering is relative.

 4                  Going to my colleague Julia Salazar's 

 5           point, I also do not support the Governor's 

 6           new proposal for redoing 421-a.  I believe 

 7           421-a and J-51 together cost the city over 

 8           $2 billion a year in property tax benefits, 

 9           with very small returns on affordable 

10           housing.  

11                  I am a believer that we should sunset 

12           these programs and let the City of New York, 

13           you and the Council, come up with models that 

14           are not as-of-right but are one-by-one deals 

15           that will give you the ability to use this 

16           property tax money in the most effective way.  

17           It might be for specific deals, it might be 

18           for helping you figure out your need to 

19           address the unfairness in the current 

20           New York City property tax system.  

21                  I'm just curious whether you think 

22           that the city could handle its own property 

23           tax revenue if we did away with these credits 

24           that we've sort of forced down the throat of 


                                                                   211

 1           New York City for decades.

 2                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Well, you know, Senator 

 3           Krueger, I've always been impressed with your 

 4           depth of knowledge around these topics.  I 

 5           look forward to sitting down with you and 

 6           hearing how we can do it better.  

 7                  I was in awe of you when I was in 

 8           Albany, and I look forward to your insight on 

 9           this conversation.  And let's follow up on 

10           it.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Great.  Maybe 

12           Senator Salazar and I will join with your 

13           other staff to work on that together.

14                  And my time is up, and I believe that 

15           closes out the Senate as well.

16                  Helene Weinstein.

17                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Yes, and it 

18           also -- we have no further questions from the 

19           Assembly.  

20                  I just want to thank Mayor Adams for 

21           spending so much time with us.  And I know 

22           all of the legislators look forward to 

23           continuing the discussions both with you and 

24           with your staff as we move forward.


                                                                   212

 1                  So thank you, Mr. Mayor, for being 

 2           here.  And again, look forward to continuing 

 3           conversations.

 4                  MAYOR ADAMS:  Thank you so much.

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  And with that, 

 6           I'm going to call up our next witness, who is 

 7           going to be the mayor of the City of Buffalo, 

 8           the Honorable Byron W. Brown.  Also a former 

 9           colleague.

10                  MAYOR BROWN:  I would like to thank 

11           the New York State Legislature for this 

12           opportunity to testify before the joint 

13           legislative budget committee on the impact of 

14           the proposed 2022-2023 Executive Budget on 

15           the City of Buffalo.

16                  As always, Senate Finance Committee 

17           Chair Liz Krueger, Assembly Ways and Means 

18           Chair Helene Weinstein, Senate Local 

19           Government Chair James Gaughran, and 

20           Assembly Local Governments Chair Fred Thiele, 

21           I'm pleased to come before you today as the 

22           mayor of the City of Buffalo on behalf of our 

23           more than 278,000 residents.

24                  With me today is City of Buffalo 


                                                                   213

 1           Finance Commissioner Donna Estrich and Budget 

 2           Director Jessica Brown.

 3                  I'd also like to express my gratitude 

 4           to our delegation leaders, Assembly Majority 

 5           Leader Crystal Peoples-Stokes and Senator Tim 

 6           Kennedy, and the other members of the Western 

 7           New York delegation who continue to 

 8           effectively advocate on behalf of the City of 

 9           Buffalo's residents.

10                  Governor Hochul's Executive Budget 

11           proposal represents a once-in-a-generation 

12           opportunity, in my estimation, to restore the 

13           integrity of the neighborhoods through 

14           strategic investments in commercial 

15           corridors, cultural anchors and affordable 

16           housing.  By investing in the physical and 

17           social infrastructure, the Governor's budget 

18           is providing Buffalo and other upstate cities 

19           a foundation for a sustainable, equitable and 

20           rapid recovery while we emerge from the worst 

21           impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic.

22                  Last year I spoke before this 

23           committee on how Buffalo would respond to the 

24           social, racial, and economic crisis the 


                                                                   214

 1           COVID-19 public health emergency posed. 

 2           Because of the American Rescue Plan Act, 

 3           Buffalo and New York State have resources to 

 4           address both the immediate and long-term 

 5           social determinants of health which caused 

 6           disparate health and economic outcomes which 

 7           resulted from and were also highlighted by 

 8           the pandemic.  

 9                  With the passage and adoption of the 

10           federal Infrastructure Investment and 

11           Jobs Act, Buffalo and New York State will be 

12           able to finally address many of the 

13           transportation infrastructure needs which 

14           have limited our growth -- and strengthen 

15           neighborhoods whose residents have been 

16           denied access to the mobility options that 

17           will enhance their economic outlook; connect 

18           to each other, their school, or their 

19           workplace through affordable broadband 

20           internet; and foster a cleaner and greener 

21           transportation landscape for the future.  

22                  The Governor's budget highlights how 

23           these funds will be used to support 

24           initiatives that Buffalo’s residents will 


                                                                   215

 1           directly benefit from, and I urge you to 

 2           support the proposed allocation of those 

 3           resources during the upcoming negotiations.  

 4                  From these new state budget funds, I 

 5           would also ask you to consider specific 

 6           support for Buffalo's Cars Sharing Main 

 7           Street project, my administration's People's 

 8           Infrastructure Agenda, the further 

 9           development of historic corridors necessary 

10           to expand our growing cultural tourism 

11           industry, and critical investments in our 

12           public health sector like the proposed 

13           Rashaun Nicole King Community Health and 

14           Education Center, which will serve as a 

15           conduit for public health outreach and 

16           education in the Buffalo area.  

17                  Buffalo is a city of neighborhoods, 

18           and the continued redevelopment of our 

19           downtown must coincide with a place-based 

20           development strategy that invests in our 

21           neighborhoods.  That's why the Cars Sharing 

22           Main Street remains a priority.  Automobile 

23           traffic was removed from Main Street over 

24           30 years ago to allow for the construction 


                                                                   216

 1           and operation of a light rail system.  And 

 2           while Metro Rail has been a benefit to 

 3           Buffalo, prohibiting vehicular traffic 

 4           essentially killed retail in downtown 

 5           Buffalo, resulting in vacancies, blight, loss 

 6           in property values, and an impediment to 

 7           growth in one of our premier retail and 

 8           entertainment corridors.  

 9                  My administration has focused on 

10           realigning the Metro Rail infrastructure so 

11           that it truly benefits the entire community 

12           by fostering an approach which encourages 

13           housing development and multimodal traffic 

14           along Main Street.  As a result, we have 

15           worked to reopen several blocks to vehicular 

16           traffic, which has had the effect of 

17           stimulating retail, housing, and various 

18           mixed-use development while also providing 

19           millions of dollars in economic activity and 

20           job growth.  

21                  We are requesting state assistance to 

22           continue this project, at a cost of 

23           $100 million.  The success of this project is 

24           critical to continuing the redevelopment of 


                                                                   217

 1           downtown Buffalo and creating a thriving, 

 2           vibrant environment to live, work, play and 

 3           visit.  

 4                  The investments in Main Street must be 

 5           matched by a cohesive set of investments 

 6           across our neighborhoods but especially in 

 7           those neighborhoods which have been subjected 

 8           to historic disinvestment, like Buffalo's 

 9           East Side.  My administration's People's 

10           Infrastructure Agenda will enhance mobility 

11           and create more transportation options for 

12           Buffalo residents while creating jobs that 

13           will be key components of speeding our 

14           economic recovery and promoting greater 

15           racial equity.  The City of Buffalo has 

16           identified approximately $100 million in 

17           shovel-ready projects in every neighborhood 

18           that will help transform the lives of 

19           low-income residents.  These projects are 

20           critical to improving the mobility of 

21           residents, developing place-based economic 

22           development strategies that will strengthen 

23           commercial corridors in minority communities, 

24           and bolster a green transportation revolution 


                                                                   218

 1           that is critical to reducing Buffalo's carbon 

 2           footprint.  

 3                  The level of CHIPS funding in this 

 4           year’s budget is very helpful, but additional 

 5           infrastructure investment will be needed for 

 6           Buffalo to remain economically competitive in 

 7           the future.  

 8                  Another component to stable and 

 9           healthy neighborhoods is affordable housing. 

10           Specifically, public housing is essential for 

11           families, seniors, and disabled people on 

12           fixed incomes to avoid homelessness or 

13           housing instability.  Buffalo's public 

14           housing stock is among the oldest in New York 

15           State, and much of it is obsolete and in need 

16           of repair, maintenance or demolition.  A 

17           physical needs assessment conducted by an 

18           outside contractor in 2020 concluded that 

19           more than $300 million would be needed just 

20           to repair and bring up to current standards 

21           our existing public housing stock.  

22                  We request $350 million to do 

23           additional work to address the needs of 

24           Buffalo's aging public housing.  This funding 


                                                                   219

 1           will enable us to embark on a multiyear plan 

 2           to modernize our public housing, replacing 

 3           developments with more modern and 

 4           energy-efficient units, as well as providing 

 5           safer, cleaner developments which more 

 6           appropriately fit into the larger community 

 7           and position people to be lifted out of 

 8           poverty.  I request New York State allocate 

 9           funding to protect this vital source of 

10           reliable and affordable housing.  

11                  While the streets, roads, bridges, 

12           sidewalks, and utilities identified above are 

13           the connective tissue of my city, the 

14           cultural institutions in Buffalo are home to 

15           its beating heart.  Buffalo's rich cultural 

16           history, architecture, musical venues, and 

17           public green spaces date back to over a 

18           century and a half, and preserving them is 

19           critical to ensuring our vibrant future.  

20                  However, it is time to finally 

21           recognize that our cultural offerings leave 

22           out important figures in our history, 

23           individuals who were almost forgotten because 

24           of the color of their skin, their gender, or 


                                                                   220

 1           the place that they originally came from. 

 2           Buffalo's cultural institutions must 

 3           represent the diversity of our residents and 

 4           the heritage all of our communities have 

 5           offered.  It is through an inclusive approach 

 6           to the arts that we can connect with each 

 7           other and celebrate a shared vision for 

 8           Buffalo's brighter future.  I urge the 

 9           Legislature to ensure that investments in 

10           Buffalo's cultural institutions reflect our 

11           Black and Hispanic as well as New American 

12           communities, while also supporting the 

13           institutions that have helped make Buffalo a 

14           cradle for artistic expression across the 

15           nation.  

16                  It looks like I'm out of time, so I 

17           will end there.  Thank you very much.

18                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  

19           Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

20                  We'll go to Assemblyman Jon Rivera for 

21           three minutes.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA:  Good morning.  

23           Can you hear me?  Well, good afternoon.  

24           Good?


                                                                   221

 1                  MAYOR BROWN:  Yes, I can hear you, 

 2           Assemblyman.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA:  How you doing, 

 4           Mayor?

 5                  MAYOR BROWN:  Doing well, thank you.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA:  Good.  Good.  So 

 7           just two or three things related to the 

 8           Executive's proposed budget.  

 9                  And I guess even before that, it's 

10           good that you mentioned public housing and 

11           the problems that we're having there.  And I 

12           really, really am eager to work with you in 

13           any way I can to, one, find resources but, 

14           two, also bring more attention to the nature 

15           of our aging housing stock, especially when 

16           it comes to our public housing.  Here in the 

17           state we talk a lot about the very legitimate 

18           issues with NYCHA in the city, and I would 

19           love to, you know, bring attention across 

20           upstate cities that have housing authorities 

21           that are really struggling.  So it's great 

22           that you mentioned that.

23                  The question that I had was after a 

24           long time of population decrease, for the 


                                                                   222

 1           first time probably in my lifetime we've seen 

 2           a pretty substantial uptick in our region.  

 3           And I am a firm believer that a big part of 

 4           that has to do with our city being a city and 

 5           a region where we have welcomed so many 

 6           refugees.

 7                  So this year I'm presenting a bit of a 

 8           pursuit of much more than what we did last 

 9           year in refugee resettlement funds here in 

10           Albany.  So I essentially want to see, you 

11           know, what are you seeing in that community, 

12           what are you seeing where help is needed?  

13           And, you know, what sort of is going to be 

14           the city's role in moving this community 

15           forward?  

16                  MAYOR BROWN:  Thank you very much, 

17           Assemblyman.

18                  So the New American community is 

19           growing dramatically.  As you indicated, we 

20           had our first population growth in Buffalo 

21           since 1950, and in large measure that's 

22           because of the presence of New Americans.

23                  There are a number of needs that 

24           New American communities have:  Access to 


                                                                   223

 1           housing, access to healthcare, access to 

 2           municipal services -- one of the reasons why 

 3           we created in 2015 the Office of New 

 4           Americans in the City of Buffalo.  Buffalo 

 5           certainly could use resources as well to 

 6           provide assistance in accessing not only city 

 7           but other government services for our 

 8           New American communities.  Your interest and 

 9           your advocacy for our New American 

10           communities is greatly appreciated, and I 

11           certainly look forward to working with you as 

12           our New American communities continue to grow 

13           in the City of Buffalo.

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA:  Thank you.  I'm 

15           out of time, but eager to be of help whenever 

16           I can.  And thank you.

17                  MAYOR BROWN:  Thank you, Assemblyman 

18           Rivera.

19                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  To the Senate 

20           now.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

22                  We're going to start with our ranker, 

23           Senator Rath, for five minutes.

24                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Excuse me, 


                                                                   224

 1           Senator, is this -- this is the Cities 2 --

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Oh, you know, I'm 

 3           sorry, so you're not the ranker for this 

 4           purpose.  You still can go next, but you get 

 5           three minutes.  

 6                  Thank you for the clarification.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Right, because 

 8           I see Senator --

 9                  SENATOR RATH:  Okay.  I'd happily take 

10           ranker minutes if you'd grant it to me, 

11           Madam Chair.

12                  (Laughter.)

13                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  No, I think she 

14           caught us.  Sorry, Senator Rath.

15                  SENATOR RATH:  No, I had it there for 

16           a second.  Oh, my gosh.  All right, here we 

17           go.

18                  Mayor, it is so good to see you.  

19                  MAYOR BROWN:  Good to see you, 

20           Senator Rath.

21                  SENATOR RATH:  And I appreciate your 

22           opening comments.  

23                  And for many years you and I have 

24           worked together on economic development when 


                                                                   225

 1           we were on numerous boards together, and we 

 2           watched the renaissance of Buffalo unfold 

 3           pre-pandemic.  And in your opening comments 

 4           you had mentioned the $100 million of state 

 5           assistance for economic development and had 

 6           referenced a few communities that you were 

 7           potentially going to be prioritizing.  

 8                  But if I were to talk about 

 9           Larkinville, Hertel Avenue, Elmwood Village, 

10           East Side, West Side, Canalside, 

11           Outer Harbor, there's a lot of hungry mouths 

12           to feed, per se, when it comes to investments 

13           in the City of Buffalo.  Could you provide 

14           some specific I guess priorities of where you 

15           think that money is going to be utilized and 

16           for what purpose?

17                  MAYOR BROWN:  So, you know, we've seen 

18           explosive growth in downtown Buffalo, and we 

19           certainly want to see a continuation of that 

20           growth.  But we also want to see the 

21           investments that continue to grow in 

22           downtown, the Buffalo Niagara Medical Campus, 

23           and our waterfront extend into neighborhoods 

24           and neighborhood commercial districts 


                                                                   226

 1           throughout the City of Buffalo.  

 2                  So my focus going forward will be to 

 3           see even more economic development, retail 

 4           development, development of services in the 

 5           residential areas and the commercial 

 6           districts in neighborhoods throughout the 

 7           City of Buffalo -- East Side, West Side, 

 8           North Side and South Side.  Equity is a key 

 9           watch word, and we want to make sure that 

10           we're making investments that enable all of 

11           our neighborhoods to grow and all of our 

12           residents to benefit.

13                  SENATOR RATH:  Well, thank you.  And I 

14           think narrowing the focus is important to 

15           make sure that we're prioritizing in the 

16           right neighborhoods and in the right 

17           communities.

18                  Also, you touched on tourism and the 

19           arts and the investment when state monies or 

20           resources are provided, the massive return 

21           that comes back to a community for every 

22           dollar that's invested in tourism -- you 

23           know, the return back to the community.  And 

24           we have a destination in Western New York and 


                                                                   227

 1           in Buffalo, and I'm hopeful that you can 

 2           expand on what you think are some of the 

 3           priorities with regards to tourism and the 

 4           arts in Buffalo going forward with state 

 5           monies.

 6                  MAYOR BROWN:  Tourism has been a real 

 7           driver of economic development activity and 

 8           job creation in the City of Buffalo, and we 

 9           see our various tourism venues continue to 

10           grow.  We have to invest in them.  Many of 

11           our beautiful tourism venues, you know, date 

12           back to over a century and a half.  So 

13           preserving them is critical to preserving the 

14           vibrancy of tourism and arts and culture in 

15           the city.

16                  I want to make sure, though, as we 

17           make those investments we are also investing 

18           in our cultural institutions and cultural 

19           destinations of color as well, and that will 

20           also be a part of the equity that I've talked 

21           about in terms of investments in arts, 

22           culture and tourism.

23                  SENATOR RATH:  Well, thank you, Mayor.  

24           I appreciate your leadership and look forward 


                                                                   228

 1           to continuing to advocate with you for 

 2           Western New York.

 3                  MAYOR BROWN:  Thank you very much, 

 4           Senator Rath.  I appreciate you.

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  We 

 7           go to Assemblywoman Wallace.

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALLACE:  Good 

 9           afternoon, Mayor.  Thank you so much for your 

10           testimony today.  We really appreciate it.  

11           And for your leadership.  

12                  I, as you know, represent suburban 

13           communities in Western New York, but I am a 

14           firm believer that we need to take a regional 

15           approach and that the health and well-being 

16           of the suburban communities I represent 

17           really rise and fall on the health and 

18           well-being of the city.  So I've always been 

19           very supportive of making sure that we have a 

20           strong city.

21                  And so toward that end, you mentioned 

22           transportation initiatives that you're 

23           involved in, and particularly I think you 

24           said the People's Mobility Agenda.  


                                                                   229

 1           Transportation's always an issue, not only 

 2           for residents in the city but also for 

 3           suburban communities.  And I'm wondering if 

 4           you can highlight a little bit of what that 

 5           People's Mobility Agenda involves.  That's my 

 6           first question.  

 7                  My second question relates to 

 8           accessory dwelling units -- I'm sorry -- 

 9           yeah, accessory dwelling units, I believe 

10           they're called, the -- which would allow -- 

11           basically end single-family zoning for 

12           communities across the state.  I know that's 

13           very controversial.  

14                  And while we all want to make sure 

15           that we have affordable housing, as you 

16           discussed with Assemblymember Rivera, we also 

17           want to make sure that we retain local 

18           control, because our communities are very 

19           diverse.  And I just wanted to see where you 

20           are on that issue.

21                  And then third, as we all know, the 

22           theater tax credits have been incredibly 

23           helpful to Western New York.  And I'd like to 

24           hear what you think about expanding the 


                                                                   230

 1           upstate theater tax credit.

 2                  MAYOR BROWN:  Thank you very much, 

 3           Assemblymember.

 4                  The People's Infrastructure Agenda is 

 5           a comprehensive look at infrastructure in the 

 6           City of Buffalo -- roads, sidewalks, bridges, 

 7           broadband, internet, and actually a 

 8           shovel-ready look at what the costs would be 

 9           to make needed infrastructure repairs and 

10           investments in the city, which go into the 

11           hundreds of millions of dollars.  I can 

12           provide you with more information on that.

13                  I think, you know, local control for 

14           our housing development and how we protect 

15           housing is critically important, so I look 

16           forward to working with you and the 

17           delegation on that as well.  And your final 

18           question was?

19                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALLACE:  Just regarding 

20           the upstate theater tax credit.

21                  MAYOR BROWN:  Yeah, I would love to 

22           see the upstate theater tax credit and film 

23           tax credit expanded.  They have been 

24           tremendous in bringing theater and film to 


                                                                   231

 1           the City of Buffalo.

 2                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALLACE:  Well, thank 

 3           you very much, Mayor, and I look forward to 

 4           working with you on these things.

 5                  MAYOR BROWN:  Thank you, 

 6           Assemblymember Wallace.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Senate.  

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  And 

 9           good afternoon, Mayor Brown, nice to see you 

10           again.

11                  MAYOR BROWN:  Good seeing you, 

12           Senator Krueger.

13                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

14                  And we were also colleagues.  All 

15           mayors, apparently, were colleagues in Albany 

16           before.  Not all, but quite a few.  

17                  Senator Jeremy Cooney, our chair of 

18           Cities.

19                  SENATOR COONEY:  Thank you so much, 

20           Chair.  

21                  And great to see you, Mayor.  So 

22           pleased to be able to see you here.  I wish 

23           you were here in person, but we know that you 

24           are holding down the fort in Buffalo and 


                                                                   232

 1           Western New York.  

 2                  And thank you -- let me echo my 

 3           colleagues who came before me and thank you 

 4           for your leadership and service.  I think 

 5           about our new mayor in Rochester, and he's so 

 6           fortunate to have friends so close by in 

 7           Buffalo to help guide him as he takes on an 

 8           important role in Rochester.

 9                  Mayor, I know we've worked on a number 

10           of issues together, but a new issue to me, 

11           which kind of builds upon some of the 

12           conversations that you've already had so far 

13           with my colleague Senator Rath as well as 

14           Assemblywoman Wallace on the arts.  And I had 

15           the opportunity to spend some time in your 

16           city just a few weeks ago spending time at 

17           the zoo on a day that it was closed and very, 

18           very cold and also spending time at 

19           Albright-Knox, AKG -- I've to get that new 

20           moniker in my mind after 40 years of calling 

21           it Albright-Knox.

22                  And it occurred to me that there are 

23           some ways of creative thinking as a region, 

24           as Western New York, as the twin cities, if 


                                                                   233

 1           you will, between Rochester and Buffalo, that 

 2           we could find resources to do some 

 3           collaborative marketing so that if you are 

 4           coming in from New York City or from an 

 5           international location to view the collection 

 6           at Albright-Knox, did you know that just down 

 7           the road, 40 minutes or so away, we've got a 

 8           wonderful collection at the George Eastman 

 9           Museum or the Memorial Art Gallery in 

10           Rochester.  And the same for our zoo 

11           collections, right?  If that's what motivates 

12           you, we've got world-class facilities in both 

13           cities.

14                  And yet oftentimes our marketing 

15           dollars and our resources at these 

16           institutions -- which are bringing in a lot 

17           of tourism dollars and people to our 

18           region -- stay very myopic, right?  It's just 

19           AKG, it's just Memorial Art Gallery.  And I'm 

20           wondering if we can think more innovatively 

21           as cities at how we can support each other so 

22           that you're bringing in folks who can then 

23           come to Rochester, and we're bringing in 

24           folks to Rochester that can come down the 


                                                                   234

 1           Thruway west to you in Buffalo, and have both 

 2           communities flourish because of that.

 3                  And so I guess my question to you, 

 4           Mayor, is your thoughts on -- more in the 

 5           context of the arts and culture -- on how we 

 6           could better market opportunities between 

 7           Rochester and Buffalo.  

 8                  MAYOR BROWN:  Thank you very much, 

 9           Senator Cooney.  Would be very interested in 

10           working with you on that.  Obviously New York 

11           State is a magnet for people from all across 

12           the world.  I know that Buffalo gets many 

13           visitors from across the nation and 

14           internationally, as does Rochester.  And 

15           would be very pleased to work with you and 

16           the new mayor of Rochester on some shared 

17           marketing initiatives.

18                  A few years ago, prior to the 

19           pandemic, I worked with former Mayor 

20           de Blasio in New York City on some shared 

21           marketing initiatives between New York City 

22           and the City of Buffalo which were very 

23           successful in Buffalo in getting residents 

24           from New York City to actually come here to 


                                                                   235

 1           Buffalo to visit some of our cultural and 

 2           arts and entertainment destinations.  And I 

 3           think we could do the same thing between 

 4           Buffalo and Rochester.

 5                  Money is always an issue.  One of the 

 6           things that, you know, I'm asking for 

 7           consideration on is AIM funding, Aid and 

 8           Incentives to Municipalities.  In 2010, that 

 9           funding to municipalities was reduced by 

10           7.6 percent, where it has remained flat ever 

11           since with no increase.

12                  I think having the resources to make 

13           these kinds of investments in marketing our 

14           tourism destinations across the state will 

15           have a financial return to communities all 

16           across the state and to the state itself.

17                  SENATOR COONEY:  I couldn't agree with 

18           you more, Mayor.  And as you know, when I 

19           served as the chief of staff to Mayor Warren 

20           in Rochester, that was a topic that we 

21           focused on quite a bit, and specifically the 

22           Big 5 cities of Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, 

23           Yonkers and Albany, thinking about the impact 

24           that that has for those cities to become 


                                                                   236

 1           thriving centers.

 2                  As you know further, Mayor, that I've 

 3           had the great pleasure of serving as the 

 4           first chair of the Upstate Cities Committee.  

 5           And, you know, I did an 11-city tour this 

 6           fall.  And some of my colleagues who are on 

 7           today with us were part of that tour.  And I 

 8           think that was probably -- that and childcare 

 9           and workforce attraction were the top issues 

10           that each of your colleagues across the state 

11           as mayors brought.  

12                  And I want you to know that not only 

13           am I supportive of Governor Hochul's 

14           restoration to the AIM formula, taking out 

15           that interceptor for towns and villages, but 

16           I actually think we need to go one step 

17           further.  And I have been working with your 

18           colleagues in the New York Conference of 

19           Mayors to see if we can create some 

20           additional funding in the budget that would 

21           supplement on top of what you're already 

22           getting for AIM, but would also be these 

23           additional operating dollars.  

24                  Because I recognize certainly that 


                                                                   237

 1           your role as mayor is to make sure that not 

 2           only do you pick up the trash on time and 

 3           snow gets plowed, but to also think how do we 

 4           get services to those critical populations.  

 5           You talked about equity before, and I believe 

 6           in that cause, certainly.  And each of our 

 7           cities is unique in how we deal with equity.  

 8                  You know, Rochester has one out of two 

 9           children still living below the federal 

10           poverty line.  And so we would count on our 

11           mayor and our city services, whether they're 

12           libraries or recreation centers, to be able 

13           to deliver those critical services.  Mayors 

14           know how to get that job done.

15                  And so I believe that it's a good 

16           investment by the State of New York to 

17           increase operating aid or AIM aid, if you 

18           will, this year to make up for the last 

19           13 years of flat funding.  So we will be 

20           pushing that out of the Cities 2 agenda in 

21           the State Senate.

22                  Thank you, Mayor Brown. 

23                  MAYOR BROWN:  Thank you, Senator 

24           Cooney.  That is fantastic.  Certainly I know 


                                                                   238

 1           that the Big 5 cities can definitely use it.  

 2                  I think AIM funding should increase 

 3           annually, keeping up with inflation.  And 

 4           that transfer to towns and villages I know 

 5           was very harmful to the City of Buffalo.  It 

 6           essentially took money out of our pocket and 

 7           gave it to other municipalities.  So it is 

 8           critically important that you and your 

 9           colleagues are looking at this issue.

10                  SENATOR COONEY:  Thank you, Mayor.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you both.  

12                  Back to the Assembly.  Oh, no, you 

13           didn't have any other Assembly, right? 

14                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  No, we do.  We 

15           do.

16                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Okay, sorry.

17                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We're going to 

18           call on the Majority Leader, Crystal 

19           Peoples-Stokes, for 10 minutes.

20                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Oh, her.  Okay.  

21                  (Laughter.)

22                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Just -- you 

23           know, just somebody.

24                  (Laughter.)


                                                                   239

 1                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES:  Thank 

 2           you all.  I appreciate those nice comments.  

 3           I'm glad you all are smiling about that.  

 4                  (Laughter.)

 5                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES:  It's 

 6           always good to see the mayor as well.

 7                  MAYOR BROWN:  Good to see you, my 

 8           leader.

 9                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES:  I'd 

10           like to hear what your thoughts are on the 

11           Governor's budget and particularly as it 

12           relates to the great City of Buffalo, my 

13           beloved Buffalo.  I will just ask a couple of 

14           questions, though.

15                  As relates to the public housing and 

16           the capital dollars that you're asking for 

17           for renovation, I would ask, which one of 

18           those developments are state developments?

19                  MAYOR BROWN:  You know, right off the 

20           top of my head, Assemblymember, I do not 

21           recall which developments are state 

22           developments.  

23                  We certainly will work with you on 

24           that.  We do have a number of state 


                                                                   240

 1           developments.  I believe Marine Drive is a 

 2           state development.  But I'm not sure as we 

 3           speak right at this moment.

 4                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES:  Okay.  

 5           I raised that question because I know that, 

 6           you know, there had been or are state 

 7           developments in the City of Buffalo, but I 

 8           also know the vast majority of them are 

 9           federally controlled.  

10                  And in my estimation, I think it's an 

11           unfair shift for the federal government to 

12           shift their responsibilities to us at the 

13           state level to do capital investments to 

14           their property.  On the other hand, if it's 

15           state property, I think it's our 

16           responsibility to do capital investments in 

17           it.  

18                  And so I would say that I would be 

19           happy to join you in pressing our 

20           Congressional delegation to do their job in 

21           taking care of municipal housing that is 

22           still under federal control.  So -- and I'm 

23           sure you'll join me in doing that.

24                  MAYOR BROWN:  Absolutely.


                                                                   241

 1                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES:  Another 

 2           thing that I would be interested in your 

 3           thought process on is the compact.  Have you 

 4           gotten access yet to the agreed-upon deal 

 5           with the Natives and the Governor?  

 6                  MAYOR BROWN:  No, I have not gotten 

 7           access to the agreement directly between the 

 8           Governor and the Seneca Nation.  

 9                  Buffalo is certainly anxiously 

10           awaiting the casino revenue that is owed 

11           through that agreement between 

12           Governor Hochul and the Seneca Nation in 

13           Buffalo.  We estimate the amount we are owed, 

14           that should be coming to the city, in excess 

15           of $40 million.

16                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES:  Okay.  

17           And that $40 million is over the period of a 

18           few years when this was all in court and it 

19           was in flux and no one was passing or shared 

20           any resources.  

21                  But if the deal has been done and you 

22           anticipate that $40 million, my thought 

23           process is -- and I'm sure Niagara Falls 

24           could agree, as well as Salamanca, since 


                                                                   242

 1           these facilities are operated in their 

 2           municipal areas and have been ongoing and 

 3           will be ongoing -- that it really just makes 

 4           sense for the Senecas to have that agreement 

 5           with you, as opposed to -- what should come 

 6           to the City of Buffalo, as opposed to it 

 7           funneling through the state and being then 

 8           passed back to you.  And I wanted to hear 

 9           your thoughts on that.

10                  MAYOR BROWN:  You know, I am certainly 

11           supportive of revenue coming directly to the 

12           City of Buffalo.  

13                  It has not been a problem coming to us 

14           through the state, so that particular 

15           mechanism has not been problematic.  What has 

16           been problematic is the dispute where the 

17           revenues stopped flowing.

18                  So I'm glad there's an agreement.  You 

19           know, the back revenue owed is in excess of 

20           $40 million.  And obviously going forward for 

21           as long as a Seneca Nation casino exists in 

22           the City of Buffalo, I think there should be 

23           revenue sharing for this municipality and 

24           other host municipalities.


                                                                   243

 1                  So as long as the revenue continues to 

 2           flow, I don't necessarily mind the 

 3           pass-through from the state.  It hasn't 

 4           presented any problems for us.  But, you 

 5           know, there's an expression that says God 

 6           bless the child who's got his and her own.  

 7           If it could flow directly to the city, we 

 8           certainly would not object to that.

 9                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES:  Okay.  

10           I think that's something that we should at 

11           least give some consideration to and have 

12           conversations about with folks on the second 

13           floor.  Because it just seems reasonable.  

14           It's less accounting for them, quite frankly, 

15           and it just is an easier flow.

16                  So my last point, I want to be really 

17           grateful that you included investing in 

18           cultural institutions in your budget.  I 

19           think along with education, that is probably 

20           one of the most critical things we can do for 

21           our citizens, is provide them access to 

22           culture, be it our own personal cultures or 

23           the cultures of other people, as well as the 

24           arts.  So I'm excited about that, and I hope, 


                                                                   244

 1           in all honesty, that it can be honored.

 2                  Lastly, I will say this.  I know that 

 3           you have been doing some work on removing 

 4           lead pipes.  And I wonder if there's anything 

 5           in your budget ask that furthers that agenda 

 6           and pushes it even faster, because I think 

 7           that is a major problem.  We must get lead 

 8           out of the societies in which we're trying to 

 9           raise our children.

10                  MAYOR BROWN:  In our overall People's 

11           Infrastructure Agenda, we do request funding 

12           to remove lead lines.  

13                  Also, in the federal American Rescue 

14           Plan Act we have proposed significant dollars 

15           again to replace old lead lines.  This is 

16           something that the City of Buffalo, as you 

17           know, Majority Leader, has been working on 

18           aggressively for several years.  And with 

19           requested state dollars as well as federal 

20           dollars, we plan on ramping up that focus 

21           exponentially and spending tens of million of 

22           dollars, if it is available to us, to 

23           accelerate the pace of removing lead lines 

24           from homes throughout our city.


                                                                   245

 1                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES:  Thank 

 2           you, Mr. Mayor.  I look forward to speaking 

 3           with you well into the future as we pursue 

 4           the 2022 budget.

 5                  MAYOR BROWN:  Thank you very much, 

 6           Majority Leader Crystal Peoples-Stokes.

 7                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES:  My 

 8           pleasure.  Madam Chairs.

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Back to the 

10           Senate.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

12                  And nice to see you, Majority Leader.

13                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES:  

14           Likewise.

15                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

16                  Next up is Senator George Borrello.  

17                  SENATOR BORRELLO:  Thank you, Madam 

18           Chair.  

19                  Mr. Mayor, it's good to see you again.  

20           I think the last time I saw you was back in 

21           September at the Meatball Street Brawl, so --

22                  MAYOR BROWN:  Yes.  Good to see you 

23           too, Senator.

24                  SENATOR BORRELLO:  Yes.  I just want 


                                                                   246

 1           to say, first of all, again, congratulations 

 2           on winning your recent race.  And, you know, 

 3           you've been mayor since 2006, and in that 

 4           time you really presided over some important 

 5           initiatives -- economic development 

 6           initiatives, you've seen a reduction in 

 7           taxes, and also you oversaw a historic drop 

 8           in crime in the City of Buffalo.  Between 

 9           2006 and 2018, I believe there was about a 

10           40 percent drop in crime.

11                  But that being said, you know, in 2019 

12           you had 47 homicides.  And then in 2020 and 

13           2021, you have a record number of homicides, 

14           which, you know, in my opinion, correlates 

15           directly with the implementation of bail 

16           reform.

17                  And as everyone has mentioned before, 

18           we need a vibrant city in Western New York 

19           and the City of Buffalo, and I agree, living 

20           just 30 miles south of you.  And Western 

21           New York is strong when Buffalo is strong, as 

22           was said before by, I believe, 

23           Assemblywoman Wallace.  

24                  And you did say when it came to bail 


                                                                   247

 1           reform that, you know, somebody that's caught 

 2           with an illegal gun -- I'm quoting you -- 

 3           multiple times shouldn't keep getting out on 

 4           the streets.  Somebody that's broken into 

 5           your home last week, you shouldn't be bumping 

 6           into in your neighborhood in a couple of 

 7           days.  So there are elements of bail reform 

 8           that are not working and that have to be 

 9           changed.

10                  With that being said, sir, I'd just 

11           like to see you address the issue of bail 

12           reform and crime and your ability to do your 

13           number-one job, which is to keep the citizens 

14           of Buffalo safe.

15                  MAYOR BROWN:  Thank you for the 

16           question, Senator Borrello.

17                  I think the Legislature, in its 

18           deliberations around bail and cash bail, was 

19           certainly concerned about inequities in the 

20           system and people -- low-income individuals 

21           not being able to come up with bail and 

22           waiting in jail for inordinate amounts of 

23           time.

24                  That being said, I think bail reform 


                                                                   248

 1           does need to be looked at.  I think the 

 2           Legislature is wise to listen to the calls 

 3           around the state to look at improving the 

 4           system.  You know, people who have been in 

 5           possession of illegal weapons, who have used 

 6           illegal weapons, should not be able to get 

 7           out on bail.  People who are habitual 

 8           lawbreakers should not be able to get out on 

 9           bail.

10                  So I am very appreciative of the 

11           concerns of the Legislature and the fact that 

12           bail reform is being reviewed.

13                  SENATOR BORRELLO:  Thank you, 

14           Mr. Mayor.  And again, best of luck, and 

15           we'll see you at the next big event downtown.

16                  MAYOR BROWN:  Thank you, Senator 

17           Borrello.

18                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

19                  Assembly.  

20                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go to 

21           Assemblyman Jacobson.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  Thank you, 

23           Madam Chair.  

24                  Good to see the mayor again.  


                                                                   249

 1                  Just a quick shout out to the 

 2           Majority Leader.  There's $115 million coming 

 3           to the state for lead-line replacement, so we 

 4           need it in the cities I represent, and I hope 

 5           that there would be a line item in the budget 

 6           so there's more transparency so we know where 

 7           it is and that it doesn't get lost.

 8                  I represent three small cities in the 

 9           Hudson Valley:  Beacon, Newburgh and 

10           Poughkeepsie.  I'm from Newburgh.  And 

11           unfortunately, Newburgh and Poughkeepsie have 

12           not regained their prior economic heights, 

13           and I look with envy at what's gone on in 

14           Buffalo.  

15                  So I would like to know -- I'll give 

16           you just a very easy question -- what would 

17           you recommend for cities, because our cities 

18           face the same type of challenges that you 

19           have and continue to face in Buffalo, but 

20           you've done some great -- had some great 

21           advances. What would you recommend that our 

22           small cities do to achieve better economic 

23           development and prosperity?

24                  MAYOR BROWN:  I think it's critically 


                                                                   250

 1           important for small cities to work with 

 2           different levels of government, so to work 

 3           with state government, to work with federal 

 4           government, and to develop economic 

 5           development plans that can be presented to 

 6           the State Legislature and can be presented to 

 7           the Congressional delegation to bring in 

 8           additional resources to invest in your 

 9           strategic planning.

10                  In Buffalo, we focused on developing 

11           strategic plans for economic development, 

12           recognizing that we couldn't invest 

13           everywhere at one time, and really focusing 

14           our investments strategically in a way that 

15           would attract other investment, that would 

16           bring jobs to the community.  

17                  So that would be my recommendation to 

18           some of the smaller cities in our state.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  All right, well 

20           thank you.  And I'll see what we can do, and 

21           we'll all work together because we're all in 

22           the same boat and we have very similar 

23           situations even though the skies might be 

24           different.  Thank you.


                                                                   251

 1                  MAYOR BROWN:  Thank you, Assemblyman 

 2           Jacobson.

 3                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Back to the 

 4           Senate.

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

 6                  Now to the last Senator, Diane Savino, 

 7           who needs to get off her phone.

 8                  SENATOR SAVINO:  I'm coming.  Thank 

 9           you, Senator Krueger.

10                  Good to see you, Mayor Brown.  It's 

11           been a -- good to see you, Mayor Brown.  It's 

12           been a long time since we were seatmates 

13           together a million years ago.

14                  MAYOR BROWN:  Yeah, good to see you, 

15           Senator Savino.

16                  SENATOR SAVINO:  So I'm going to -- I 

17           only have three minutes, so I'm going to ask 

18           you the same question I'm going to ask all of 

19           the mayors in the Conference of Mayors.  

20                  One of the biggest problems that local 

21           governments are facing around the country --  

22           in fact, the President of the United States 

23           recently signed an order declaring that 

24           cybersecurity risks and ransomware attacks 


                                                                   252

 1           are the national security threat of our time.

 2                  So I know that many local governments 

 3           have been dealing with these ransomware 

 4           attacks, struggling on their own.  What do 

 5           you think the state can do to help the City 

 6           of Buffalo to prepare for them, to respond to 

 7           them?  And are we doing enough to help local 

 8           governments deal with what is we now know the 

 9           national security threat of our time?  

10                  MAYOR BROWN:  Thank you very much, 

11           Senator Savino.  

12                  A number of governments across the 

13           country and entities across the country have 

14           been under cyberattack, and I think this is 

15           something that every government has to pay 

16           attention to.  But hardening a government, 

17           hardening an organization, an entity against 

18           cyberattack is expensive.  It takes 

19           resources.

20                  So, you know, in the City of Buffalo 

21           we've done a number of things to protect 

22           ourselves, including purchasing insurance.  

23           But all of the things that we have had to 

24           do -- by ourselves -- are expensive.  


                                                                   253

 1                  So if there was an allocation of 

 2           resources and a -- not only an allocation of 

 3           resources, but a focus on what the playbook 

 4           could be to harden government entities across 

 5           the state against cyberattack, that could be 

 6           very helpful.

 7                  You know, we have governments of 

 8           different sizes, governments with more 

 9           resources or more equipped to protect 

10           themselves.  Smaller governments are more 

11           susceptible to cyberattack.

12                  SENATOR SAVINO:  Thank you.

13                  I know that Angelo Riddick, who is the 

14           head of our Office of Internet -- OITS is 

15           what we call it -- he is going to be reaching 

16           out to local governments, to school 

17           districts, to help coordinate that activity.  

18                  But you're absolutely right, the state 

19           does need to do more.  The federal government 

20           in the infrastructure package last year did 

21           include about $3 billion for cybersecurity 

22           grants.  Certainly it's a drop in the bucket 

23           to help state and local governments.  But we 

24           need to figure out a way to access some of 


                                                                   254

 1           that money and to provide resources directly 

 2           to our local governments and our 

 3           municipalities.  

 4                  So I look forward to working with you 

 5           on that.  And again, congratulations, good to 

 6           see you, and good luck.  Thank you.

 7                  MAYOR BROWN:  Thank you, Senator 

 8           Savino.

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We have one 

10           more Assemblymember, Assemblyman Mamdani.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  Thank you, 

12           Chair Weinstein.  

13                  Thank you, Mayor Brown.  I'm going to 

14           jump straight into the questions.  

15                  Where does the building of a new 

16           Buffalo Bills stadium rank in your priorities 

17           for state expenditure for the City of 

18           Buffalo?  

19                  MAYOR BROWN:  I would like to see a 

20           new Buffalo Bills stadium.  

21                  The stadium agreement is between 

22           Erie County government, the State of 

23           New York, and the ownership of the team.  So 

24           the City of Buffalo, while it is the 


                                                                   255

 1           Buffalo Bills, is not a party to that 

 2           agreement.  The Bills don't physically -- as 

 3           you know, Assemblyman -- play in the City of 

 4           Buffalo.  The stadium is located in 

 5           Orchard Park.  

 6                  But there are many benefits, I 

 7           believe, that come back to the City of 

 8           Buffalo, and so I am a proponent of a new 

 9           Bills stadium and certainly would like to see 

10           those negotiations successfully concluded and 

11           a new stadium built in Western New York.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  Thank you, 

13           Mayor.  Are you a proponent of the new 

14           stadium being built within the City of 

15           Buffalo?  

16                  MAYOR BROWN:  Would love to see it 

17           built in the City of Buffalo.  However, there 

18           would be a significant additional cost to 

19           doing that, it might take significantly 

20           longer for that to happen, and I think 

21           potentially would put the Bills remaining in 

22           Western New York at risk.

23                  So I have come out in support of 

24           building the new stadium across from the 


                                                                   256

 1           existing stadium in Orchard Park, believing 

 2           that there are still very significant 

 3           benefits to the City of Buffalo and its 

 4           residents and all of the residents of 

 5           Erie County and Western New York.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  Thank you.  

 7                  And just to follow up, earlier, as you 

 8           were saying, while the City of Buffalo is not 

 9           party to that agreement, if there is a 

10           specific amount of funding that is being 

11           allocated to Erie County and Western New York 

12           at large, would you say that this is your top 

13           priority, or in the top three, of how the 

14           money should be spent in the region?

15                  MAYOR BROWN:  I would say that that 

16           certainly is a priority for our region.  That 

17           would be one of many priorities that I would 

18           have for spending.  But certainly believe 

19           that, you know, the Legislature should 

20           support the funding of a new stadium for this 

21           community.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  Thank you.  

23                  And my final question -- I don't have 

24           much time, but I'll just try here -- is 


                                                                   257

 1           switching topics to housing, what is your 

 2           stance on accessory dwelling units?

 3                  MAYOR BROWN:  You know, that's -- 

 4           that's been asked.  Have some concerns about 

 5           that.  I think local control in participating 

 6           in setting housing policy is critically 

 7           important, so want to see that maintained.

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  Thank you very 

 9           much, Mayor Brown.

10                  MAYOR BROWN:  Thank you, Assemblyman.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Senator 

12           Krueger, do you have any --

13                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  No, I think we 

14           have completed the assignment on the Senate 

15           side.

16                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Okay.  And here 

17           too on the Assembly.

18                  So Mayor Brown, thank you for spending 

19           this time with us today and look forward to 

20           continuing to work with you and the members 

21           of the Legislature.

22                  And now we will move --

23                  MAYOR BROWN:  Thank you.

24                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Now we will 


                                                                   258

 1           move on to the City of Rochester, the 

 2           Honorable Malik Evans, mayor.  

 3                  (Pause.)

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Is the mayor 

 5           here?

 6                  THE MODERATOR:  The mayor is on his 

 7           way.

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Okay.  I assume 

 9           that means he's in the --

10                  THE MODERATOR:  He's in the green 

11           room.  They're trying to get him over.  

12                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  He's in the 

13           green room.  So you're just moving him over.

14                  THE MODERATOR:  Yes.

15                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Okay, thank 

16           you.  

17                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  In the old days, 

18           that could mean they could be in the parking 

19           lot of the LOB, never to be found again.

20                  (Laughter; discussion off the record.)

21                  THE MODERATOR:  The mayor has joined 

22           the meeting.

23                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Okay, thank 

24           you.  


                                                                   259

 1                  So welcome, Mayor Evans.

 2                  MAYOR EVANS:  Thank you.

 3                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  This is your 

 4           first time before us, and there are -- there 

 5           is 10 minutes on the clock.  Keep an eye on 

 6           it.  We have distributed your testimony, so 

 7           feel free to summarize.  And then I know a 

 8           number of my colleagues will have some 

 9           questions for you, both Assembly and 

10           Senators.

11                  So the floor is yours.

12                  MAYOR EVANS:  Thank you.  

13                  Good afternoon, Chairwoman Krueger and 

14           Chairwoman Weinstein, members of the Ways and 

15           Means and Finance Committees, and other 

16           members of the Senate and Assembly.  I am 

17           honored to have this opportunity to speak on 

18           behalf of the residents, business owners and 

19           all the stakeholders of Rochester.  

20                  As you know, I am the newly elected 

21           mayor of Rochester, and when I look around, I 

22           see a lot of things that are new or almost 

23           new.  We are living in a tremendous time of 

24           change, in a tremendous time of challenge, 


                                                                   260

 1           and in a time of tremendous opportunity.  But 

 2           I'd like to choose the word "new" to describe 

 3           all of that, because it inspires hope and 

 4           optimism.  We all love a new day, and I am 

 5           certainly relishing my new day as mayor of 

 6           Rochester.  And despite the incredible and 

 7           very tragic challenges we are facing related 

 8           to the twin pandemics of the coronavirus and 

 9           unprecedented violent crime, we must never 

10           forget that it's a new day for Rochester and 

11           New York State.

12                  New York has a new governor; America 

13           has an almost-new president, and our county, 

14           Monroe County, has an almost new county 

15           executive.  The New York State Legislature 

16           has a host of almost-new members and an 

17           almost-new leadership team with a new mandate 

18           to bring much-needed transformation to our 

19           state.  And they have unprecedented levels of 

20           resources to deliver opportunities that are 

21           so new that we could barely imagine that a 

22           year ago.

23                  But we're also filled with more than a 

24           little trepidation, because new opportunities 


                                                                   261

 1           also carry risk and pressure to get them 

 2           right.  We have to get them right the first 

 3           time because we likely won't get these 

 4           opportunities again.  And that risk and 

 5           pressure are very real.

 6                  I've been on the job for just over a 

 7           month, but on my very first day in office I 

 8           found myself talking to a mother because her 

 9           14-year-old child, her 14-year-old baby, was 

10           shot down in cold blood while walking to the 

11           store to buy noodles.

12                  These tragedies, and so many others 

13           like them, do not have to happen.  They do 

14           not have to be inevitable.  But they will 

15           keep happening again and again and again -- 

16           they will keep happening if we don't seize 

17           the opportunities we have before us now.  

18                  I am the son of a preacher, so hope 

19           and optimism come easy for me.  So does 

20           gratitude.  And I am filled with all of those 

21           as I make a deliberate choice to focus on the 

22           new day for Rochester and all of New York.  I 

23           am grateful for the support Rochester has 

24           received from the state, particularly our ROC 


                                                                   262

 1           the Riverway initiative, and I thank Governor 

 2           Hochul for her support for RECAP, the 

 3           Regional Economic Community Assistance 

 4           Program, which will leverage additional 

 5           private funding to make strategic investments 

 6           in workforce development, waterfront, 

 7           smart business, commercial corridors, 

 8           innovation and capacity-building in 

 9           Rochester.  

10                  These funds will allow us to make 

11           additional progress with the ROC the 

12           Riverway, which includes exciting plans to 

13           create the Rochester High Falls State Park, 

14           revitalize the Rochester Riverside Hotel, 

15           update the Joseph A. Floreano Rochester 

16           Riverside Convention Center, and renovate the 

17           High Falls Visitor Center.  

18                  These projects are critical to the 

19           revitalization of our waterfront and our 

20           downtown.  ROC the Riverway is a product of 

21           our strong state and local partnership that 

22           not only improves the quality of life of all 

23           of our residents, but also elevates 

24           Rochester's potential as an economic engine 


                                                                   263

 1           for the entire state.

 2                  As a result, our city is a more 

 3           attractive destination for tourists, 

 4           employers, and especially those in the 

 5           gaining knowledge economy, whose workers 

 6           covet a strong work-life balance with 

 7           ready-to-access natural resources like the 

 8           Genesee River.

 9                  And there's some other things in the 

10           state budget that I am very excited about:  

11           funding for infrastructure through the 

12           Bridge-NY, Pave NY, Consolidated Highway 

13           Improvement Program or CHIPS, and the Pave 

14           Our Potholes program -- any mayor loves 

15           potholes -- economic development investments, 

16           including the RECAP program I mentioned 

17           earlier, numerous investments in public 

18           safety initiatives, including the 

19           Gun-Involved Violence Elimination program, or 

20           GIVE, the SNUG outreach program, the 

21           Community Stabilization Units partnership, 

22           capital for communities to combat gun 

23           violence, and funding for community 

24           empowerment and crime reduction programming 


                                                                   264

 1           for areas victimized by gun violence.

 2                  In addition, I greatly appreciate the 

 3           Governor's dedication of funding to housing 

 4           to create and preserve affordable homes, 

 5           support the operation of shelters and 

 6           supportive housing units, and provide rental 

 7           subsidies -- and for her promise to further 

 8           strengthen neighborhoods through the 

 9           Restore NY program to combat blight by 

10           supporting efforts to address vacant and 

11           abandoned properties.

12                  And I applaud the Governor's 

13           commitment to educate our children through an 

14           increase in school aid.  Our children are our 

15           future, and it's important that we invest in 

16           them.

17                  But I have three more things that I 

18           want to ask.  The first one is an increase to 

19           AIM aid.  The second is money to get the lead 

20           out of our water system.  And the third is 

21           legislation to make our Persons In Crisis 

22           team Medicaid-eligible so we can sustain this 

23           alternative response model.

24                  Regarding AIM aid, Rochester had this 


                                                                   265

 1           funding reduced to its current level of 

 2           88.2 million in 2012, where it's stayed ever 

 3           since.  In that time, Rochester's 

 4           concentration of poverty -- a blight on not 

 5           just Rochester but the entire state -- 

 6           remained shamefully high.  These numbers are 

 7           especially reprehensible because they are the 

 8           underlying cause of the 81 homicides our city 

 9           experienced last year.  

10                  It is incumbent upon every New York 

11           lawmaker to help reverse this trend, whether 

12           they represent our city or not, by 

13           eliminating the disparity in our AIM formula.  

14           As you are forecasting surpluses in the 

15           billions, I believe that this current year is 

16           a time to really help us in the AIM aid 

17           category, and I implore you to do so.

18                  Rochester continues to have a high 

19           maintenance of effort and much lower 

20           per-capita Aid and Incentives to 

21           Municipalities than Buffalo and Syracuse.  

22           Because of the state's MOE requirement, more 

23           than 63 percent of our tax levy goes to the 

24           school district.


                                                                   266

 1                  Secondly, Rochester has made great 

 2           strides in reducing lead poisoning in 

 3           children through programs that remediate lead 

 4           paint in homes.  Now it's time to continue to 

 5           get the lead out of our water system.  

 6           Increased federal regulation will require it, 

 7           but federal funding will fall far short of 

 8           the estimated $200 million it will take to 

 9           eliminate lead pipes.  This is a burden that 

10           a city with one of the highest child poverty 

11           rates in the country cannot bear alone.

12                  Rochester started to remove these 

13           pipes years ago.  But without exhausting all 

14           of our ARPA funds, which are needed to help 

15           us recover from the pandemic, we simply don't 

16           have the resources to do it in a reasonable 

17           time frame.  New York State is fortunate to 

18           be in a position to help, so I am asking, 

19           please help us.  A commitment of $125 million 

20           will address the shortfall we anticipate 

21           after federal infrastructure funding and city 

22           ARPA investments are exhausted.

23                  And finally, I ask that the state pass 

24           legislation that will make our Persons In 


                                                                   267

 1           Crisis team eligible for reimbursement from 

 2           Medicaid.  Arising out of the Daniel Prude 

 3           tragedy, the PIC team was developed to 

 4           respond to mental health calls as an 

 5           alternative to police response.  Its aims are 

 6           to divert nonviolent 911 crisis calls towards 

 7           a mental health or social service-focused 

 8           response, deescalate crisis calls, connect 

 9           service users to appropriate community 

10           resources, and provide referrals and supports 

11           to stabilize service users and prevent future 

12           crises.

13                  The service is available 24/7 across 

14           the entire city of Rochester to provide rapid 

15           mobile response to individuals in crisis.  We 

16           need a funding stream to make this critical 

17           service sustainable.  

18                  In closing, I again thank you for the 

19           opportunity to speak to you today on behalf 

20           of the people of Rochester, and I look 

21           forward to answering the questions you may 

22           have.  I came from the background of the 

23           five Bs -- be brief, brother, be brief -- so 

24           I've still got a minute and 53 seconds on the 


                                                                   268

 1           clock.  So I hope you will give me some bonus 

 2           points for finishing in under the time.  And 

 3           I welcome your questions.

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Definitely 

 5           bonus points.  But I'm not sure you can trade 

 6           them for dollars.

 7                  (Laughter.)

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  So we go to 

 9           Assemblyman Bronson, for three minutes. 

10                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON:  Thank you, 

11           Madam Chair.  

12                  And Mayor Evans, great to see you here 

13           today.  I want to thank you for your 

14           testimony.  More importantly, I want to thank 

15           you for your leadership, especially as a new 

16           mayor helping to build bridges, making sure 

17           that you're working collaboratively and in 

18           partnership with other leaders in government 

19           and with community leaders and our families 

20           in the City of Rochester, so we can do what's 

21           right for our families and children in the 

22           City of Rochester.

23                  I want to focus on one area.  You 

24           mentioned the 14-year-old, your first day in 


                                                                   269

 1           office.  The level of violence in our city is 

 2           unacceptable, and we must address it.  

 3           Eighty-one homicides, a historical level of 

 4           homicides last year.  

 5                  As chair of Economic Development, I'd 

 6           like to think about the intersection of 

 7           economic development with public safety and 

 8           antiviolence measures.  Could you speak a 

 9           little bit about the linkage of those items?

10                  MAYOR EVANS:  Absolutely.  And thank 

11           you for that question, Assemblymember 

12           Bronson.  

13                  They go together like, you know, a 

14           horse and carriage went together back in the 

15           day.  You cannot talk about violence- 

16           reduction strategies without talking about 

17           economic development.  It's one of the 

18           reasons why one of the things we talk about 

19           in Rochester is our Youth to Work program.  

20           One of the best violence-reduction strategies 

21           we can have in the City of Rochester is a 

22           jobs program -- not only a jobs program for 

23           young people but also a jobs program for 

24           parents.  


                                                                   270

 1                  So as we look to invest in seeing a 

 2           shift in the levels of violence that we see 

 3           in our community, we have to also make sure 

 4           that we make those front-end investments.  

 5           When we invest in, you know, prisons, locking 

 6           someone up, those type of issues, that's 

 7           after the fact.  That's when someone is dead.  

 8           You know, that's too late.  But if we can get 

 9           our young people very early on with 

10           investments so that if any young person that 

11           wants a job can get a job, they're more 

12           likely to be successful.  

13                  The data is clear.  If young people 

14           are engaged in meaningful activities, they 

15           are not going to get involved in negative 

16           behavior.  And if an individual is coming out 

17           of incarceration or if they're involved in a 

18           negative activity, if they get access to a 

19           job, the chances of them being involved in 

20           violence or crimes severely diminishes.  

21                  So economic development and jobs are 

22           one of the key components that we are 

23           focusing on in the city, and it's why I 

24           appointed someone who reports directly to me 


                                                                   271

 1           that is in charge of all violence-reduction 

 2           programs.  And what he's looking at are jobs 

 3           and opportunities as part of that.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON:  Thank you, 

 5           Mayor.  And look forward to working with you 

 6           on that issue as well as the capital projects 

 7           you mentioned, the AIM disparity, making sure 

 8           that we rectify the lead exposure through our 

 9           water infrastructure, and also the mental 

10           health crisis response so that we're doing it 

11           in a way that is compassionate and caring and 

12           not in a way that uses excessive force and 

13           control.

14                  So a lot of work ahead, but I'm 

15           looking forward to partnering with you, 

16           Mayor.  Thank you.  

17                  MAYOR EVANS:  Thank you.  Thank you, 

18           Assemblymember.

19                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go to the 

20           Senate.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Yes, thank you.  

22           We're going to call on Chair Jeremy Cooney.

23                  SENATOR COONEY:  Thank you, Chair.  

24                  And great to see you here, Mayor 


                                                                   272

 1           Evans.  Thrilled to welcome you into this 

 2           space and to congratulate you publicly on 

 3           your victory.  And we thank you for your 

 4           leadership with the City of Rochester when 

 5           we --

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Excuse me, 

 7           Senator.  The time clock should say 10 

 8           minutes since you are the chair of the 

 9           Cities 2.

10                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you, 

11           Helene.  Thank you.

12                  SENATOR COONEY:  Always nice to get 

13           some bonus points on the clock.  And I'll be 

14           brief, following our mayor's lead here.  We 

15           won't need to use that full 10 minutes.  But 

16           thank you, Chair Weinstein and Chair Krueger.

17                  Mayor, I want to continue the 

18           conversation that Assemblymember Bronson 

19           started around public safety, because I too 

20           am concerned and frustrated and want to 

21           support you as much as we can.  When it comes 

22           to reducing gun violence, you mentioned 

23           investing in SNUG and GIVE, and those are 

24           programs that we definitely want to continue 


                                                                   273

 1           to fund.  But you've been around the block 

 2           for a long time.  You know a lot of the 

 3           not-for-profits in our community, based on 

 4           your time on the school board and as a 

 5           community leader.

 6                  I'm wondering if -- and this is really 

 7           kind of more brainstorming, but how we can 

 8           help you with state resources by investing in 

 9           some of those smaller not-for-profits or 

10           community interrupter -- violence 

11           interrupter, excuse me, groups that are out 

12           there, whether it's ROC the Peace, whether 

13           it's some of the work that Justin's doing 

14           with Untrapped Ministries, who maybe haven't 

15           been the recipient of some of the funding 

16           we've received in the past, like Center for 

17           Youth and some of the other wonderful 

18           organizations that have been doing good work 

19           in this space.  

20                  Because I think we need to be nimble.  

21           I think we need to try things differently 

22           when it comes to the City of Rochester and 

23           how we tackle gun violence.  And I'm 

24           wondering if you could comment on -- you're 


                                                                   274

 1           bringing new leadership to City Hall; who are 

 2           some of the new organizations and ways -- new 

 3           partnerships that we can fund that may tackle 

 4           this issue of gun violence differently?

 5                  MAYOR EVANS:  Yeah, I think that one 

 6           of the things that we need to do is an 

 7           all-hands-on-deck.  In order to deal with 

 8           violent situations we have to use every -- 

 9           multiple tools within the toolbox.  So if 

10           there's an organization, for example, that is 

11           good with dealing not only with the young men 

12           that might be getting ready to pick up a gun, 

13           but can also deal with the whole family.  And 

14           a lot of this violence, it stems from things 

15           are also happening in the household.  

16                  Because, for example, if you have a 

17           person that is involved in violence, you have 

18           to deal with that person but then you also 

19           have to get into that household.  So any 

20           organization that is looking at the whole 

21           family.  Because if you're a young man and 

22           you're 14 years old, you may have an older 

23           brother that might be 21 that might be 

24           influencing you.  So you can't just deal with 


                                                                   275

 1           the 14-year-old, you also have to go in and 

 2           deal with the older brother that might be in 

 3           the house or the grandmother or mother or 

 4           father that also might be living there that 

 5           also may need some type of services to go 

 6           along with what's happening in that 

 7           household.  

 8                  So we're interested in partnering with 

 9           organizations that look at it from the 

10           holistic standpoint.  No 14-year-old grows up 

11           and says, Hey, I decide I want to pick up a 

12           gun.  It's the environment that they're in 

13           that sometimes is created to make them feel 

14           as though they need to join a gang or pick up 

15           that weapon.

16                  So we have to look at nontraditional 

17           organizations who may not -- who may not be 

18           large and go through the process of 

19           understanding -- they may not have a 

20           501(3)(c), they might need to be part of a 

21           host agency.  And we're interested in looking 

22           at all of those types of organizations as 

23           part of our effort.  Victor Saunders, who is 

24           running all of our violence-reduction 


                                                                   276

 1           efforts -- the one thing we did was we 

 2           centralized them all under one place.  And 

 3           what we're saying is is that all of those 

 4           multiple organizations that kind of operate 

 5           like octopus arms, we're saying we want you 

 6           to centralize under one place, see how we can 

 7           fill any of the gaps that are missing, and 

 8           then get those folks to coordinate and work 

 9           together.

10                  Because not only do we need the 

11           traditional organizations that might have 

12           operated in the space before -- because we 

13           are living during different times, we need to 

14           try different things.  And I will tell you, 

15           we had something similar to this in the 

16           nineties in Rochester when we had high levels 

17           of violence.  This is a very similar time to 

18           1993 in Rochester.  The only difference is is 

19           that I have never seen young people with 

20           access to the firepower that they have now.  

21           That's one of the big differences.  Yes, 

22           there was gun violence before, but now the 

23           levels of what I'm seeing -- I have a book on 

24           the computer that I can pull up right now 


                                                                   277

 1           that shows 14-year-olds holding firearms that 

 2           not even police officers or hunters have.

 3                  So we have to find ways to reach those 

 4           people in order to get them to go down a path 

 5           of positivity.  Otherwise, we'll be paying 

 6           for it, but we'll just pay for it later on 

 7           when we lock them up.  And that's much more 

 8           expensive than giving somebody a job that 

 9           pays them $15 an hour working 20 hours a 

10           week.  I'd rather do that than spend the time 

11           locking them up.

12                  SENATOR COONEY:  Well, I couldn't 

13           agree with you more, Mayor.  And your 

14           preventative approach is refreshing.  I also 

15           commend you for consolidating all of those 

16           octopus arms under your office so that we can 

17           have a centralized solution.  

18                  And we stand ready as a delegation to 

19           work together with you to make sure that you 

20           have the resources to be successful.

21                  I want to switch gears a little bit 

22           and build off a conversation that we had just 

23           a few moments ago with your colleague mayor 

24           just down the Thruway to the west, Mayor 


                                                                   278

 1           Brown, about arts and culture.  

 2                  As you know, we have a rich history of 

 3           arts and culture in our community.  We're 

 4           very fortunate to have a number of those 

 5           institutions located within the City of 

 6           Rochester specifically.  One of the things 

 7           that I've been exploring as the chair of the 

 8           Upstate Cities Committee is how we can better 

 9           collaborate not just internally with our 

10           artistic organizations, but actually with 

11           Buffalo.  

12                  We have a lot of folks who travel from 

13           New York City or from places around the globe 

14           to come and visit Buffalo to see the 

15           Albright-Knox Gallery or to go to the 

16           Buffalo Zoo.  But we have, of course, 

17           resources just 45 minutes down the road like 

18           the Memorial Art Gallery or the George 

19           Eastman Museum, or our own Seneca Park Zoo, 

20           to share those cultural experiences and to 

21           find opportunities to partner together.

22                  And so my question to you, Mayor, is 

23           would you be willing to work with Mayor Brown 

24           on trying to find those marketing strategies, 


                                                                   279

 1           if you will, so that when the Strong Museum 

 2           of Play has attracted one family to our part 

 3           of the state, that that same family may 

 4           travel to Buffalo and experience some of the 

 5           opportunities that they offer.  Is that 

 6           something that you might be interested in 

 7           engaging with?

 8                  MAYOR EVANS:  Absolutely.  You know, 

 9           one of the first tasks that my chief of 

10           staff -- who I stole from the state -- one of 

11           her first tasks was to reach out to the 

12           chiefs of staff of Buffalo and Syracuse as 

13           well.  Because, you know, Rochester and 

14           Syracuse, both places are only about an hour 

15           away.  And, you know, I've got family that 

16           live in Maryland and family that live down in 

17           the New York City area.  That's not really 

18           that long of a distance.

19                  So to see how we can have a 

20           coordinated approach, a coordinated marketing 

21           approach to not just market Rochester, but 

22           the region -- you know, I'm always mentioning 

23           all the things that Buffalo has to offer 

24           whenever we have people who come into town 


                                                                   280

 1           because it is so close.  And Rochester has 

 2           things that we have to offer.  

 3                  So there is absolutely a great 

 4           opportunity for Buffalo and also, I believe, 

 5           even Syracuse, because we are so close 

 6           together -- Rochester's in the middle.  We're 

 7           like the arm that reaches both sister cities, 

 8           Buffalo to the west and Syracuse to the east.  

 9           There is power there.  There is power in 

10           those three cities speaking with one voice on 

11           issues of mutual concern.  But it's a great 

12           opportunity for us to be able to share the 

13           wealth a little bit.  Because strong economic 

14           development in Buffalo, strong economic 

15           development in Rochester or in Syracuse helps 

16           the entire region.

17                  So we are excited about working with 

18           both Buffalo and Syracuse on ways in which we 

19           can collaborate.  Because it just makes 

20           sense, we're close together, a lot of us are 

21           Buffalo Bills fans --

22                  (Laughter.)

23                  MAYOR EVANS:  So we look forward to 

24           finding ways in which we can collaborate with 


                                                                   281

 1           both cities.  Because not only does it 

 2           enhance our individual cities, it enhances 

 3           all of upstate New York.  And I think that 

 4           it's high time for upstate New York to work 

 5           together to make sure that we are able to 

 6           help lift all of our cities at the same time.

 7                  SENATOR COONEY:  Thank you, Mayor.  

 8           And you know I have a soft spot for those 

 9           city mayors' chief of staffs who are --

10                  MAYOR EVANS:  That's right.

11                  SENATOR COONEY:  -- who are doing the 

12           work.

13                  MAYOR EVANS:  You can relate.

14                  SENATOR COONEY:  And I know Tammy's 

15           going to do a great job working in your 

16           administration.

17                  Let me again switch gears a little 

18           bit.  We went from the public safety to arts 

19           and culture.  Let's talk about something that 

20           you and I care very deeply about, which is 

21           the education of our children.  You and I are 

22           both graduates, proud graduates of the 

23           Rochester City School District.  You and I 

24           both live in the City of Rochester.  And you 


                                                                   282

 1           know, of course, have had leadership on the 

 2           Rochester City School District Board of 

 3           Education.

 4                  We've been doing a lot of work as a 

 5           delegation to support our superintendent and 

 6           our school board members and of course all 

 7           the families and children that they represent 

 8           and serve.  We're looking for ways to 

 9           collaborate and to find opportunities between 

10           the City of Rochester and the school district 

11           on how we can uplift and help our students, 

12           many of whom -- as you noted -- are from 

13           families living in poverty.  

14                  What are some ways you can bring your 

15           experience on the school board to your new 

16           role as mayor to help strengthen those 

17           relationships?

18                  MAYOR EVANS:  Collaboration, 

19           collaboration, collaboration.  We're going to 

20           be joined at the hip with the Rochester City 

21           School District.  A strong school district is 

22           good for me because that allows me to have a 

23           tax base and I don't have parents running out 

24           when their kids get 3 years old, 4 years old.  


                                                                   283

 1                  The Pathways to Public Safety program 

 2           is one way in which we will continue to 

 3           collaborate.  Anything that we can do with 

 4           jobs, employment and youth, making use of our 

 5           recreation centers because we have great 

 6           distribution amongst the city.  And making 

 7           sure that the 133 hours that kids spend 

 8           outside of school is used to reinforce and 

 9           support the education of our children, what 

10           they're getting in the district.

11                  So we look forward to continuing to 

12           collaborate with the district.  I have the 

13           gray hair (indicating) to prove from my time 

14           on the school board, and I look forward to 

15           continuing to work with our district.

16                  SENATOR COONEY:  How refreshing.  And 

17           thank you again for being here, Mayor.

18                  MAYOR EVANS:  Thank you, Senator.  

19           Appreciate your leadership.

20                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

21                  Assembly.

22                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go to 

23           Assemblywoman Clark, three minutes.

24                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN CLARK:  Hello, Mayor 


                                                                   284

 1           Evans.  So very exciting to have you join us 

 2           here today and talk about Rochester.  We've 

 3           come a long way from our days on the 

 4           Youth Bureau --

 5                  MAYOR EVANS:  Right.

 6                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN CLARK:  I can't even 

 7           talk about how many decades ago that was.

 8                  I want to sort of push into one of the 

 9           topics you talked about.  We have obviously a 

10           lot of challenges in the city, and a lot has 

11           been handled by some of my colleagues in 

12           terms of what we are so excited to work with 

13           you on to bring those resources home.

14                  But my focus is on the PIC team.  I 

15           joined the Mental Health Committee this year 

16           because I feel it's just one of the biggest 

17           challenges we have to face.  I did a 

18           ride-along with Senator Brouk in the -- to 

19           see the great work the PIC team is doing.  

20                  If we were able to get that to a 

21           sustainable funding model, if we were able to 

22           really pay that as the healthcare that it 

23           is -- it's so valuable as a crisis response.  

24           But do you have any thoughts of what you 


                                                                   285

 1           could do if we could expand that because it 

 2           became a reimbursable expense and something 

 3           that is really truly part of the healthcare 

 4           system as well?

 5                  MAYOR EVANS:  I think we could 

 6           continue to enhance, we would be able to 

 7           continue to enhance training and we could 

 8           ensure that more calls could happen so there 

 9           wouldn't be holes.

10                  A lot of calls -- and I review -- I'm 

11           kind of crazy.  I actually review all the 

12           calls for service that the Rochester Police 

13           Department gets.  It makes good bedtime 

14           reading.  And a lot of the calls are around 

15           mental health issues.  Families are having a 

16           problem with their daughter or someone is 

17           suicidal -- you'd be surprised how many of 

18           those calls that you get.  

19                  But you have to have a worker 

20           available to come.  The county will backfill 

21           it but because, in a city our size, when you 

22           have a multitude of mental health challenges 

23           going on all at the same time, there's only 

24           so many people that can respond to that.  So 


                                                                   286

 1           if you could beef that up with more 

 2           individuals, we could do it.  We'd also have 

 3           more training.  It will allow us to be able 

 4           to reach that at a very sustainable level.

 5                  And the good thing is that it's really 

 6           not that much more expensive in order for us 

 7           to beef it up, particularly if it became 

 8           Medicaid-eligible.  That would be -- and we'd 

 9           work with the county on that.  Because we 

10           have such a great relationship with the 

11           county, it wouldn't be hard to do.  You know, 

12           the county executive and I, Adam Bello, you 

13           know, we see each other three to four times a 

14           week, talk almost daily.  So it just makes 

15           sense for us to be able to do that.

16                  But it would be transformative in the 

17           mental health space.  And I'm sure any of us 

18           on this call understands the importance of 

19           mental health.  So imagine, if you don't have 

20           the resources -- all of us on the call have 

21           the resources to go and seek out mental 

22           health help if we need it.  Imagine if you 

23           don't have it.  And imagine if it then comes 

24           down to a police officer -- who doesn't have 


                                                                   287

 1           time to be dealing with those types of 

 2           issues.  They have other violent things that 

 3           they have to deal with.  

 4                  But if we can send a trained 

 5           professional out there, it could be 

 6           transformational, Assemblymember.

 7                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN CLARK:  I agree.  And we 

 8           do know what happens if we don't send the 

 9           right people, and we've had our own 

10           experiences of that in Rochester.

11                   I not only am a huge proponent of 

12           this idea, I think it could be an example for 

13           the entire state of how we take mental health 

14           and crisis response to a different place, a 

15           more holistic place that actually helps meet 

16           the challenges that it is -- with compassion, 

17           and changes everything in terms of crisis 

18           response.  

19                  So thank you for your leadership 

20           there, and you have a champion here to help 

21           you get there.

22                  MAYOR EVANS:  Thank you, 

23           Assemblymember.

24                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go to the 


                                                                   288

 1           Senate.

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

 3           much.

 4                  And we go to Senator Rath.

 5                  SENATOR RATH:  Thank you very much, 

 6           Madam Chair.  

 7                  And Mayor Evans, great to meet you and 

 8           congratulations on your new role.

 9                  MAYOR EVANS:  Thank you.

10                  SENATOR RATH:  Public safety and 

11           crime, as you know, are major issues and 

12           major challenges for the City of Rochester.  

13           And frankly right now the people in Rochester 

14           in many ways don't feel safe.  And I believe 

15           that needs to change.  And if you look at 

16           safe and prosperous municipalities, what that 

17           does is that has a spillover effect or a 

18           mushrooming effect around the communities 

19           around them.

20                  So I want to ask you a few questions 

21           about bail reform.  And we talked earlier 

22           today with New York City Adams, who was quite 

23           outspoken about the critical need for 

24           amending bail reform measures through both 


                                                                   289

 1           enhanced judicial discretion, with things 

 2           like dangerousness being considered, and 

 3           much-needed discovery reform.  

 4                  So my question is, do you believe that 

 5           these same changes are necessary and 

 6           appropriate to improve public safety and 

 7           reduce criminal activity in the City of 

 8           Rochester?

 9                  MAYOR EVANS:  Yeah.  Well, I think 

10           judicial discretion is something that I would 

11           like to see, as long as it's fairly applied.

12                  I think one of the things that we 

13           could seriously use help with in the City of 

14           Rochester as it relates to violence -- and 

15           the first thing, the one point I want to make 

16           is that about one -- less than 1 percent of 

17           the population in Rochester are violent.  So 

18           the vast majority of Rochester is not 

19           violent, out of control.  

20                  We have the -- what we need to make 

21           sure that we do a better job in is zeroing in 

22           on the individuals that are creating the 

23           mayhem, the chaos in Rochester.  And we know 

24           who those individuals are.  And that's what 


                                                                   290

 1           we need to do a better job of doing.

 2                  As it relates to bail reform, and I've 

 3           said this to my team, you know, this is still 

 4           a new concept.  What I'm interested in is 

 5           looking at the data to see if that is really 

 6           the main driver of more violent crime in 

 7           Rochester.  Because I talk to some of my 

 8           colleagues around the state -- the mayors of 

 9           Cleveland, Pittsburgh, we talk regularly.  

10           They don't have bail reform, and they're 

11           dealing with the exact same issues as it 

12           relates to violent crime.

13                  So if it is bail reform that's causing 

14           that, after I look at all the data and see 

15           that, hey, let's look and see what changes 

16           need to be made.

17                  The other problem that I have in 

18           Rochester is the Iron Pipeline.  And everyone 

19           should know what the Iron Pipeline is:  

20           Pennsylvania, Ohio, North Carolina, 

21           South Carolina, Florida, Georgia.  They're 

22           not legal gun owners that are going to see 

23           Jamie Romeo, our county clerk.  But we've got 

24           illegal guns coming into New York State, 


                                                                   291

 1           arriving in Rochester, along the Iron 

 2           Pipeline.  And we have to figure out a way -- 

 3           see, I need help with that.  And that's 

 4           something that I can't do, it's something 

 5           that our police officers can't do.  But when 

 6           they are faced with people who have firepower 

 7           that is more than some armies in small 

 8           countries have, that creates a serious 

 9           problem for our citizens.

10                  So I think that to attack violent 

11           crime, Senator, we have to look at all of the 

12           above.  And if we do that, I think we will 

13           see a safer, more prosperous Rochester.  But 

14           I do just want to reiterate that Rochester is 

15           safe.  There are some individuals that are 

16           wreaking havoc, and they need to be dealt 

17           with.

18                  SENATOR RATH:  Well, thank you.  I 

19           think bail reform is a critical key component 

20           to getting this accomplished for the City of 

21           Rochester.

22                  MAYOR EVANS:  Thank you, Senator.

23                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Assembly.  

24                  Do we have an Assemblymember?


                                                                   292

 1                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Demond Meeks.

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN MEEKS:  I just want to 

 3           take a deep breath -- definitely a breath of 

 4           fresh air.  Thank you.

 5                  I just wanted to touch base with you 

 6           regarding some of the concerns that we've had 

 7           as a community regarding housing insecurity 

 8           and food insecurity.  You know, a lot of us 

 9           are beating the pavement doing what we can 

10           do.  

11                  What's the game plan, if you have any, 

12           and how can we be of further assistance?  

13                  MAYOR EVANS:  Yeah, I think housing 

14           insecurity is something that is extremely 

15           important to us.  I know that you guys have, 

16           in your Legislature, some conversations 

17           around, you know, just cause and eviction and 

18           that type of stuff, and I think that you'll 

19           have to look at that and see if you see that 

20           as something that can help.

21                  But, you know, housing insecurity is a 

22           major issue.  I'm very concerned about the -- 

23           with the eviction moratorium coming to an end 

24           and then once evictions start again, we need 


                                                                   293

 1           to make sure that we continue to have 

 2           resources for those individuals, particularly 

 3           people who may have been displaced from their 

 4           jobs.  Also assistance for landlords as well 

 5           as homeowners.  So that's extremely 

 6           important.  

 7                  Access to affordable housing is 

 8           something that is very important in 

 9           Rochester, as it is in other large cities.  

10           People need to make sure that they are living 

11           in dwellings that are suitable.  A lot of 

12           folks live in dwellings that are not suitable 

13           for animals, and they're forced to live in 

14           those properties.  So we want to make sure 

15           that we have access to good-quality 

16           affordable housing.  Rochester, I think we've 

17           led the nation in building some of those 

18           properties, so that's important.  

19                  But also, you know, I'm a banker by 

20           profession; homeownership is extremely 

21           important to me in Rochester.  Homeownership 

22           is extremely low in Rochester; it should be 

23           much higher.  One of the things that we're 

24           looking at is incentivizing homeownership.  


                                                                   294

 1           So any support from the state in order to 

 2           increase homeownership in our cities is 

 3           extremely important.  

 4                  We know that that, along with business 

 5           ownership, helps -- helps with the American 

 6           dream.  I mean, home ownership and business 

 7           ownership are ways in which we can sustain a 

 8           real middle class in our country.  I always 

 9           say homeownership is like college.  I'm not 

10           saying everybody has to go, but they should 

11           have the opportunity to.  And so we have to 

12           be able to do both simultaneously.  

13                  And there's some people who don't want 

14           to have homeownership in upstate New York.  

15           That's fine.  But we need to make sure that 

16           they have access to good rental or leasing 

17           options.

18                  In terms of food insecurity, a major 

19           challenge.  I just joined Mayors Ending 

20           Hunger, which is extremely important.  I'm 

21           always worried when our students are out of 

22           school, because for so many of them their 

23           best meals are when they are in school.  So 

24           we need to continue to find ways to make sure 


                                                                   295

 1           that our residents have access to nutritious 

 2           meals and access to food and that we are 

 3           doing everything in our power to erase food 

 4           deserts in our community.  

 5                  So any help from the state in that 

 6           area, Assemblymember Meeks, would be greatly, 

 7           greatly appreciated.  Appreciate from you and 

 8           your colleagues.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN MEEKS:  Thank you.  

10                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Back to the 

11           Senate.

12                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  I think Senator 

13           Savino to close for the Senate.

14                  SENATOR SAVINO:  Thank you.  Thank 

15           you.  Mayor, it's very nice to meet you.  

16                  So I'm going to ask you the same 

17           question I'm going to ask all the other 

18           members.  

19                  As we know, cybersecurity risks and 

20           ransomware attacks are the new national 

21           security threat of our time.  And what I'm 

22           wondering is, is the State of New York doing 

23           enough to help our local governments, our 

24           small municipalities, our school districts 


                                                                   296

 1           deal with the ever-present threat of 

 2           ransomware attacks.

 3                  We saw last year during the pandemic 

 4           school district after school district were 

 5           hit with ransomware attacks, many of them 

 6           incapable of responding, being able to secure 

 7           their data and get it -- their encrypted 

 8           data, get it back, and there's a concurrent 

 9           threat.

10                  So what can the State of New York do 

11           to assist the City of Rochester and its 

12           school district to respond to this and become 

13           more secure so that we are not so vulnerable 

14           to these ransomware attacks?

15                  MAYOR EVANS:  Exactly.  I think -- I 

16           remember when Atlanta had their issue.  I 

17           have nightmares about this all the time.  

18           This is what keeps me up at night.  Because 

19           if any of that happened to us, you know, we'd 

20           be in trouble because we are so reliant on 

21           technology and our computers.  

22                  I think one of the biggest things and 

23           simplest things the state can do is -- are 

24           two things:  Technical assistance and 


                                                                   297

 1           guidance that they may have as it relates to 

 2           cyber, cybersecurity.  I'd love to see a 

 3           coalition of particularly like-minded cities, 

 4           with the support of the state, leading some 

 5           type of cybersecurity task force that works 

 6           with our chief technology officers to make 

 7           sure that this isn't happening.  

 8                  And then any funds that we could use 

 9           to dedicate for cybersecurity.  For example, 

10           if we got an increase in AIM aid, I'd be able 

11           to spend a lot more money on cybersecurity 

12           issues.

13                  But this is -- Senator Savino, I'm 

14           glad you asked this question.  This is a 

15           major, major issue.  It's a sleeper issue.  

16           It's one of those things that you don't worry 

17           about until it happens.  It's like when your 

18           lights go out, right?  

19                  Same thing with our lead pipe program.  

20           We don't worry about lead or any of that 

21           stuff until a child gets lead poisoning.  We 

22           don't worry about cyberattacks until we go to 

23           log in on our computer and the director of 

24           finance is hearing, all right, listen, we're 


                                                                   298

 1           holding you for ransom and no one's going to 

 2           get paid this coming Friday -- or we've go 

 3           access to all of your residents' information 

 4           and if you don't pay us, we're going to put 

 5           it all out there on the internet.

 6                  This is a very, very serious issue.  

 7           It's a national security issue at the 

 8           national level.  But for us locally, it's 

 9           also a major, major issue.  There are people 

10           who work around the clock that have jobs like 

11           we have, but their jobs are to figure out how 

12           they can be -- how they can be -- how they 

13           can be crooks, how they can shake us down for 

14           money using technology.  So this is a major, 

15           major issue.  

16                  And I think your question deserves 

17           even more attention, and it's something that 

18           I would be very open to state help on as well 

19           as federal help.  But we should not dismiss 

20           it and think that it couldn't happen to us, 

21           because there are people who are figuring out 

22           how they can get in here and shake us down.

23                  SENATOR SAVINO:  Thank you for your 

24           response.  I certainly will be reaching out 


                                                                   299

 1           to all of the mayors and the Conference of 

 2           Mayors to talk about this issue going 

 3           forward.

 4                  There is money available under the 

 5           infrastructure act for states and local 

 6           governments to apply, and we need to tap into 

 7           that.  So thank you for your response.

 8                  MAYOR EVANS:  Thank you, Senator.

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We have 

10           Assemblyman Mamdani I believe is our last -- 

11           three minutes, our last Senator.  I'm sorry, 

12           our last Assemblymember.

13                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Our last whoever.

14                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Zohran, go 

15           ahead.

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  Thank you very 

17           much, Chair Weinstein.

18                  Thank you, Mayor Evans.

19                  MAYOR EVANS:  Thank you.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  I know we 

21           haven't had the pleasure of meeting as yet, 

22           but I do just want to thank you for the 

23           colleagues that you sent here from Rochester.  

24           It's a great pleasure to serve with them.


                                                                   300

 1                  I'm going to jump into some questions.  

 2           I was wondering if you could speak a little 

 3           bit about the homeless crisis in Rochester 

 4           and how expanding HONDA to upstate would 

 5           impact Rochester.  And furthermore, in that 

 6           line of questioning, are there specific 

 7           hotels in Rochester that the city and 

 8           nonprofits could acquire with a HONDA 

 9           expansion?

10                  MAYOR EVANS:  Yeah, I think HONDA is 

11           absolutely needed in Rochester.  We would 

12           welcome it.  I believe that there are various 

13           old hotels that we would be able to find that 

14           could serve -- that could definitely serve 

15           homeless folks in Rochester.  With 

16           compassion.  Because, you know, we've had 

17           people in Rochester sleeping on garage floors 

18           with exhaust fumes coming in.  And no one 

19           should have to live that way.  It's not 

20           right, period.

21                  I worked with our county executive to 

22           clear out that garage and get people placed 

23           in good housing, and we need to be able to do 

24           that.


                                                                   301

 1                  So, Assemblyman, expanding HONDA to 

 2           upstate and in Rochester would be great.  I 

 3           think that we have a good collaborative 

 4           effort with our homeless union, all of our 

 5           homeless providers working together to try to 

 6           find suitable housing for our folks who are 

 7           unhoused in the community, and HONDA would go 

 8           a long way in helping us continue to fulfill 

 9           that mission of making sure that people are 

10           living in places where their dignity -- this 

11           is important to me.  My father worked with 

12           not only homeless folks but folks who were 

13           homeless and had mental health issues for 

14           almost my entire life, and so I grew up 

15           knowing how important this issue is.

16                  And if a person is housed, they're 

17           more likely to graduate from high school, 

18           they're more likely to retain their job, 

19           they're more likely to have good 

20           relationships.  This is really a human rights 

21           issue when you look at what many of our 

22           homeless folks are going through.

23                  And then if we can pair that -- 

24           because if we get HONDA and we have them in a 


                                                                   302

 1           place, we can then push in the mental health 

 2           services.  Because if a person doesn't have a 

 3           place to live, they're not interested in 

 4           talking about mental health, they're thinking 

 5           about their most important need, which is 

 6           where are they going to sleep at night or 

 7           getting a warm meal.

 8                  So we have to address the housing 

 9           part; then we can address the drug -- if they 

10           have a drug problem or if they have a mental 

11           health issue or if they have an educational 

12           gap or any of those other things.  If we 

13           can't address the housing part, then we're 

14           just wasting our time.  So this is why HONDA 

15           is so important to upstate New York, and I 

16           hope that we can find ways where cities like 

17           Rochester and others can take advantage of it 

18           in order for us to really make sure that we 

19           are treating people with dignity, respect and 

20           the care that all of us are serving -- why 

21           all of us serve in order to make sure our 

22           people are living with that.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  Mayor, because I 

24           have just eight seconds here, I'm going to 


                                                                   303

 1           try and use them very quickly.  But can you 

 2           talk about, on the ground, how it would help 

 3           Rochester if the state passed good cause 

 4           eviction?

 5                  MAYOR EVANS:  I think it would give us 

 6           the opportunity -- and we wouldn't be 

 7           threatened with lawsuits if we were to pass 

 8           it at the local level, because the state 

 9           would be able to preempt it.  So it would 

10           give us some -- we'd be able to take some 

11           guidance from you all.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  Thank you so 

13           much, Mayor Evans.

14                  MAYOR EVANS:  Thank you.

15                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Senator 

16           Krueger, do you have --

17                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  No, I think we 

18           have completed on the Senate side.  And it 

19           was very nice to meet Mayor Evans, and I wish 

20           him the very best up there in Rochester.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We do have an 

22           additional -- we'd like to turn the mic over 

23           to the Majority Leader, Crystal 

24           Peoples-Stokes.


                                                                   304

 1                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  She's back.

 2                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES:  Thank 

 3           you.  Thank you so much.  I am back -- 

 4           {unintelligible}.

 5                  But Mr. Mayor, what an honor to get a 

 6           chance to see you.  I want to congratulate 

 7           you, I haven't had the opportunity to do 

 8           that.  I can almost kind of tell that you're 

 9           taking Rochester in the right direction, and 

10           that is a good thing.  

11                  I appreciate your comments on being 

12           desirous of working collectively with upstate 

13           mayors or Western New York mayors.  I think 

14           that's a great strategy.  I look forward to 

15           working with you on that.  And I definitely 

16           honor and appreciate your comments on bail 

17           reform.  Most everybody comes from an 

18           emotional perspective as it relates to bail.  

19           They somehow feel like if you lock everybody 

20           up with or without a trial, that that's going 

21           to solve the crime problem.  It didn't solve 

22           it in the past, and it's not going to solve 

23           it in the future.

24                  So I appreciate your desire to see the 


                                                                   305

 1           data that actually proves that people who are 

 2           having the opportunity for pretrial release 

 3           are the ones who are actually creating more 

 4           crime.  I think once you do see that data, 

 5           much like everybody else that honors the 

 6           value of collecting data and reviewing it, 

 7           you will see that bail reform does work.  

 8           What doesn't work is a judiciary who won't 

 9           take the responsibilities that go with 

10           {inaudible}.  

11                  No one says that anyone with a gun 

12           should have access to get out on bail.  No 

13           one says that.  It's against the law.  And if 

14           it's against the law already, no matter what 

15           court you're with, that should be enforced by 

16           the judge.

17                  So I just want to honor you for your 

18           thoughts on bail reform by asking for 

19           detailed data before you make decisions about 

20           how it may or may not be beneficial.

21                  MAYOR EVANS:  Thank you.  Thank you, 

22           Majority Leader.  I appreciate that.  

23                  You know, my background is in -- was 

24           in finance, so we always look at data before 


                                                                   306

 1           we make any decisions on anything.  So I 

 2           appreciate those comments.

 3                  And I look forward to seeing you in 

 4           person in Buffalo and working with your city 

 5           on issues of mutual concern.  It's always so 

 6           good to see you. 

 7                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES:  We'll 

 8           have to make that happen soon, sir.  I have a 

 9           couple of things I'd like to discuss with 

10           you.

11                  MAYOR EVANS:  Well, I'd love it.  I'm 

12           always looking forward to head to Buffalo for 

13           my -- Rochester has good buffalo wings as 

14           well, but I always look forward to heading to 

15           those spots in Buffalo for that as well.

16                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES:  It will 

17           be my pleasure.  Thank you so much, 

18           Mr. Mayor. 

19                  MAYOR EVANS:  Thank you.

20                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES:  Thank 

21           you, Madam Chair.

22                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Surely.

23                  So thank you, Mayor Evans, for being 

24           with us.  We look forward, along with our 


                                                                   307

 1           Rochester colleagues, to working with you as 

 2           we craft the final budget.  

 3                  MAYOR EVANS:  Thank you.

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Now we're going 

 5           to call on the City of Yonkers, the 

 6           Honorable Mike Spano, mayor.  There he is.

 7                  MAYOR SPANO:  Well, good afternoon, 

 8           Chairwoman Weinstein, Chairwoman Krueger, 

 9           members of the Senate and Assembly, my 

10           friends and colleagues.  Our Yonkers 

11           delegation, of course:  Senate Majority 

12           Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins; Senator 

13           Shelley Mayer; Assemblymember Nader Sayegh; 

14           and Assemblymember Gary Pretlow.  And thank 

15           you again for welcoming me here, or at least 

16           to the Zoom call.

17                  Similar to years past, I will submit 

18           to you the financial needs of Yonkers.  I'll 

19           try to do it quick, because you've heard me 

20           over and over again.  But I do so now as 

21           New York State's third largest city, as was 

22           just announced -- I guess it was announced by 

23           the Census.  So while going fourth, I just 

24           want to remind everybody we are third, and so 


                                                                   308

 1           we're proud of that fact.  

 2                  And the issues that have been the 

 3           issues for our city for a while continue to 

 4           be.  You know, we'll talk about the schools, 

 5           we're talking about our need for additional 

 6           AIM aid.  I'm glad that there's a discussion 

 7           happening about cyberattacks.  And of course 

 8           casino gaming is always a favorite.

 9                  You know, the years of inequities 

10           that we've always talked about with our 

11           schools have now started to go past us.  But 

12           we all know that there are many years where 

13           our kids kind of suffered from many 

14           deficiencies in services.  So we want to 

15           provide equity in services to our students so 

16           that we can mirror the successes that we've 

17           started to see in our classrooms.

18                  Back in 2012, our graduation rate was 

19           72 percent in the City of Yonkers.  And today 

20           the Yonkers graduation rate is at 90 percent, 

21           which exceeds New York State's average.  It's 

22           a number that sounds a lot like a suburban 

23           number than an urban number, but something 

24           that we're very, very proud of.  And we've 


                                                                   309

 1           continued to do what we can to move a 

 2           district that has -- that is -- over 

 3           70 percent of our kids live at or below the 

 4           rate of poverty, but we are still making it 

 5           work.

 6                  Some of the investments that we'd like 

 7           to see created or enhanced:  Our Career and 

 8           Technical Education Program, which we think 

 9           will be a feeder program to our local 

10           workforce.  The growing population that we've 

11           had over the past 10 years means that we need 

12           more equitable and inclusive funding to 

13           support the new families that are now living 

14           here, including greater investments in our 

15           UPK and multilingual learners programs.

16                  The formula, as we start to fund that 

17           formula -- and I applaud Governor Hochul for 

18           her proposed budget.  I also applaud each and 

19           every one of you in the Legislature because 

20           you started that last year.  By fully funding 

21           the formula, we can get to do the things that 

22           we need to do.  But at the same time, we ask 

23           that we continue to look at the formula to 

24           see where we can tweak it in such a way that 


                                                                   310

 1           it can help the people and the residents of 

 2           our city.  

 3                  The Regional Cost Index.  The City of 

 4           Yonkers, as you know, which just borders with 

 5           the Bronx, is an upstate regional cost.  We 

 6           are not in the New York City/Long Island 

 7           regional cost, and we should be.  And we ask 

 8           that that's something that you look at.

 9                  And if you were able to make that 

10           change by correcting the RCI, just doing that 

11           could mean an additional $18 million more in 

12           Foundation Aid for the City of Yonkers.  But 

13           we can again -- I know through Q&A you may 

14           ask me some other questions, but I'll just 

15           touch on that a bit.

16                  Casino gaming could be a big win for 

17           Yonkers and for the region.  Yonkers Raceway 

18           contributes about $300 million a year to 

19           offset the cost of education in New York 

20           State.  Since its inception, it has already 

21           contributed over $4 billion -- that's 

22           4 billion, with a B -- to help offset 

23           education in -- the cost of education in 

24           New York State.  It means thousands of jobs, 


                                                                   311

 1           both direct and indirect.  

 2                  It also is expected that if a license 

 3           is granted to Yonkers to allow for full 

 4           gaming, that we could see as much as an 

 5           additional $1 billion investment.  That's 

 6           pretty significant for the region, 

 7           significant for Yonkers.

 8                  And I also want to throw out there, 

 9           and I think it's important, that we always 

10           remember that, you know, here in Yonkers, in 

11           our region, we are so close to the swamplands 

12           of New Jersey, and they could very easily put 

13           a casino there.  When that happens -- which I 

14           believe it will happen at some point -- it 

15           could have an effect on the operations of, 

16           let's say, Yonkers and Westchester County, 

17           which is right in the heart of our area.

18                  And so what we want to do is we want 

19           to jump ahead of that.  We know, by every 

20           model that has been put forward, gaming works 

21           in this facility and gaming will -- it's a 

22           sure bet.  It's about as sure a bet as you're 

23           going to come up with.  MGM Resorts is 

24           expected to invest another $400 million in 


                                                                   312

 1           private capital just as part of their 

 2           Phase 1.

 3                  So I also ask that as you're 

 4           formulating the licensing and the tax 

 5           structure that will surround that, remember 

 6           that the amount of money that goes to the 

 7           host community -- and Yonkers has the benefit 

 8           of getting about $19.6 million for host 

 9           community aid associated with Yonkers 

10           Raceway -- that you keep that in mind when 

11           you're putting forth the tax structure, 

12           because that has been a real driver for the 

13           taxpayers of Yonkers to offset any lack of 

14           funding that we may end up with in any other 

15           place in our budget.

16                  I want to say thank you to the 

17           Legislature for giving us the ability -- and 

18           especially Shelley Mayer -- to build three 

19           new schools.  We have one of those three new 

20           schools being built right now as we speak.  

21           That is huge, considering that the city has 

22           an oversaturation -- or an under-classroom- 

23           capacity of about 4500 students.  And so we 

24           need to build new schools.


                                                                   313

 1                  We also need to repair the schools 

 2           that we currently have.  Yonkers has about 

 3           $600 million in repairs that need to be made 

 4           to our schools to bring them up to state 

 5           standards.  We've already, just in the past 

 6           10 years, invested over $300 million in 

 7           repairs to the schools.  

 8                  But the current methodology as it's 

 9           applied relies too heavily on the local 

10           property tax share and makes it almost 

11           impossible for us to achieve the goal of 

12           repairing the schools and putting our kids, 

13           frankly, in a place that -- you know, that -- 

14           across the river on either side of the city, 

15           or on the other side of the tracks on either 

16           side of the city that we would see our kids.  

17                  But despite the fact of the challenges 

18           that they have, we continue to do what we 

19           need to do to move our community forward.  

20                  So I ask that when you're looking at 

21           reimbursements to -- for capital needs that 

22           you take another look at Yonkers and see if 

23           you're able to either change those -- the 

24           methodologies and offer a greater 


                                                                   314

 1           reimbursement to the school district, or to 

 2           make a capital grant available to Yonkers 

 3           that could be separate, that could actually 

 4           help to offset the local investment that 

 5           needs to be made in order for us to kind of 

 6           jump-start the process, get our schools put 

 7           in a place where they should be for our kids. 

 8                  The partnership that we have with 

 9           New York State is real.  As you know, 

10           Governor Hochul outlined her Executive Budget 

11           to include investments in our state from 

12           clean energy, healthcare, COVID relief to 

13           infrastructure.  And I want to applaud her 

14           again for what she has done.  But over the 

15           years, AIM aid -- 2011 was our last kind of 

16           big year.  2012, our AIM aid was reduced 

17           $20 million because of the spinup, and we 

18           have remained flat ever since.

19                  If you just allow for the 2 percent 

20           growth that you have allowed in your own 

21           budgets to be applied to the AIM aid to this 

22           particular local government, we would have 

23           actually received another $126 million over 

24           that same period of time.


                                                                   315

 1                  So -- now remember, we have actually 

 2           increased the amount of money we send to 

 3           Albany:  $268 million via personal income tax 

 4           and sales tax have been provided to New York 

 5           State.  But our AIM aid continues to be flat.

 6                  Aside from the Yonkers building of a 

 7           new school, the City of Yonkers also remains 

 8           the only Big 5 that pays 100 percent of the 

 9           school district's debt service, which is 

10           above and beyond, as you know, the legal 

11           requirements of the maintenance of effort.  

12           So flat AIM and staying within the tax cap 

13           makes it very difficult for us to even have 

14           the ability to even put additional funding 

15           into our own educational system.

16                  Our budget continues to grow each 

17           year.  Our workforce, as you know, is 

18           74 percent of our total budget.  And in the 

19           past 12 years our fringe benefits have grown 

20           by 76 percent or $74 million.  Just the 

21           family plan for our health coverage has gone 

22           up 12.5 percent all by itself.  So additional 

23           AIM aid would be really important to our 

24           city.


                                                                   316

 1                  We talked about ransomware; I'm glad 

 2           the Senator brought that up.  It is, too, 

 3           something that I lose sleep over.  Yonkers 

 4           was hit with a ransom attack just a few 

 5           months ago.  We had to make some immediate 

 6           changes and immediate, you know, 

 7           appropriations to our budget.  We had to make 

 8           a $600,000 investment with an $800,000 annual 

 9           investment to the -- just to deal with our 

10           hardware and software.  It's not easy, and a 

11           lot of people didn't hear about the ransom 

12           attack because, you know, we're told from the 

13           experts, right off the bat:  Well, don't brag 

14           about it because if you brag about having a 

15           ransom attack and beating it, then you're 

16           going to just incite those who want to do it, 

17           give them a greater challenge and get them in 

18           there.

19                  And so clearly at the end of the day 

20           the ransom attacks are going to continue.  

21           And I think what local governments need -- 

22           what we need -- is the deep pocket, in this 

23           particular case the State of New York, to 

24           have robust funding and a robust program that 


                                                                   317

 1           allows us maybe to piggyback on in order for 

 2           us to be a little more nimble and deal with 

 3           ransom attacks when they happen, reduce the 

 4           incidence of ransom attacks.  Because we all 

 5           know that no matter how good we are, we 

 6           probably still will have a ransom attack, but 

 7           I think that we can reduce the chances of it 

 8           happening.  

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Mayor Spano, 

10           you've gone quite a bit over the time.

11                  MAYOR SPANO:  Oh, am I?  I'm sorry.  

12           I'm good.

13                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  And maybe 

14           Senator Savino doesn't need to ask you a 

15           question now that you've answered her 

16           question.  

17                  But we'll send it over to --

18                  MAYOR SPANO:  Oh, you're right, 

19           Assemblywoman, I apologize --

20                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  No problem.  We 

21           actually do have an Assemblymember, 

22           Assemblyman Otis, to ask a question.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Thank you, 

24           Mr. Mayor.  Nice to see you.


                                                                   318

 1                  MAYOR SPANO:  Nice to see you, 

 2           Assemblyman.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  On the ransomware 

 4           situation, what kind of -- when you had your 

 5           incident, you have, I assume, an insurance 

 6           carrier that also brings in some expertise?  

 7           Or who did you use to provide the technical 

 8           expertise to position how you would respond 

 9           and defend in that situation?  

10                  MAYOR SPANO:  We don't have an 

11           insurance policy on that, but we do have, 

12           obviously, our in-house technology team.  

13           They've been very good at dealing with the 

14           matter and keeping it contained.  And so we 

15           are now looking at insurance options now, but 

16           we know they're expensive options.  There are 

17           also, you know, some fears out there that, 

18           you know, if you're on this list of having 

19           this type of insurance, will you be more 

20           susceptible to taking a hit, will they pick 

21           your community as the one they want to come 

22           to.

23                  And so there are lots of questions 

24           here, lots of -- you know, like I said.  And 


                                                                   319

 1           we have to change our own system to a 

 2           third-party authorization, right?  So, you 

 3           know, making sure that if you want to log 

 4           onto our computer, that they send a code to 

 5           your cellphone and then you can get on.  

 6           Right?  And making sure that we have the 

 7           hardware in place that we need, that we've 

 8           upgraded all of our hardware to make sure 

 9           that we have the most up-to-date hardware 

10           available.

11                  But it's -- but despite the fact that 

12           we -- you know, and I think I was just 

13           talking and it just reminded me, we were 

14           talking about two-factor authorization, which 

15           we hear would solve most of our problems.  We 

16           are moving in that direction, making those 

17           investments.  But I really think that if the 

18           state had a robust -- I mean robust, 

19           deep-pocket approach where they can use the 

20           collaborative numbers of all these different 

21           communities, together with them, it might 

22           reduce our chances down to a minimum.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Thank you.  And, 

24           you know, it sounds like you were fortunate 


                                                                   320

 1           that you had some knowledgeable people 

 2           in-house that were able to guide you and knew 

 3           who to call to get information, because you 

 4           defended that well.  And you think that a lot 

 5           of smaller municipalities are -- may not be 

 6           positioned to have those kinds of skills on 

 7           board.  

 8                  So congratulations on how you handled 

 9           that, though, and appreciate the answers to 

10           the question.

11                  MAYOR SPANO:  Thank you so much.  

12           Still playing hockey, I hope?  

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  You know, you have 

14           goal-tending children, I'm a goal tender.  So 

15           it's all good.  

16                  Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

17                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  To the Senate.  

18                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

19                  You know, I think Senator Cooney had 

20           to disappear for a minute, so let's take 

21           Senator Shelley Mayer from Yonkers.

22                  MAYOR SPANO:  Hello, Senator.  

23                  SENATOR MAYER:  Hello, Mr. Mayor.  

24           Nice to see you --


                                                                   321

 1                  MAYOR SPANO:  Nice to see you.

 2                  SENATOR MAYER:  -- from up here in 

 3           Albany.  Thank you for your testimony.  

 4                  I have a few quick questions; I don't 

 5           have much time.

 6                  Do you know what share of the school 

 7           district's budget is paid for by the City of 

 8           Yonkers, what percentage?

 9                  MAYOR SPANO:  Just give me one second.  

10           So 42 percent of the city's budget, 

11           42 percent --

12                  SENATOR MAYER:  I think you mean 

13           42 percent of the city's budget goes to 

14           education.  But of the school district's 

15           budget, what percentage is paid by the city?  

16           Because that's something -- that's a 

17           comparison with other districts.  If you 

18           know.

19                  MAYOR SPANO:  I'm sorry, Senator, give 

20           me one second.

21                  SENATOR MAYER:  Sure.

22                  MAYOR SPANO:  We pay -- okay, so we 

23           pay -- all right, 42 percent of the budget is 

24           for education, right?


                                                                   322

 1                  SENATOR MAYER:  Yup.

 2                  MAYOR SPANO:  But our tax -- what 

 3           comes out of our tax levy is 70 percent for 

 4           everything -- 

 5                  SENATOR MAYER:  Right, but that's 

 6           different than the question I'm asking you.  

 7           Of the school district's budget, which I 

 8           believe is 680 million, approximately what 

 9           percentage of that is paid by the city?  It 

10           just -- you can get back to me.

11                  MAYOR SPANO:  32.8 percent.

12                  SENATOR MAYER:  Okay, thank you.  And 

13           has that been fairly constant or has that 

14           changed over the last year?

15                  MAYOR SPANO:  It's about constant:  

16           34, 33.

17                  SENATOR MAYER:  Okay.  A quick 

18           question on Empire Casino and MGM.  And thank 

19           you for your leadership and the whole 

20           coalition that's hopefully going to get there 

21           this year.

22                  You have in your testimony that the 

23           state's legislation should require that the 

24           public schools share a portion of the 


                                                                   323

 1           benefit.  Are you asking for that to be 

 2           incorporated in legislation, as opposed to 

 3           sort of an agreement between the city and 

 4           MGM?  

 5                  MAYOR SPANO:  Either way, Senator.  I 

 6           mean, I think that -- I'm the mayor now, and 

 7           that's always been -- as you remember when I 

 8           was in the Legislature, the casino was always 

 9           there for the benefit of the local school 

10           district in terms of any additional aid that 

11           came out of the casino.

12                  SENATOR MAYER:  Right.

13                  MAYOR SPANO:  That's -- I think that's 

14           important.  

15                  I think that if we -- you know, I have 

16           two years left, and I don't plan to be here 

17           after two years.  So I think if we had that 

18           protection in law, that we don't have to 

19           worry about in future administrations, you 

20           know, maybe diverting those dollars away from 

21           education, which I think would be a -- would 

22           not be traditional with what we have set in 

23           motion.

24                  SENATOR MAYER:  No, agreed.


                                                                   324

 1                  Lastly, very quickly, you mentioned 

 2           additional tax revenues sent to the state by 

 3           development and increased personal income tax 

 4           in Yonkers.  What about the City of Yonkers 

 5           personal income tax?  Has that gone up as a 

 6           result of increased development?

 7                  UNIDENTIFIED YONKERS OFFICIAL:  Yes.

 8                  MAYOR SPANO:  Maybe give me the 

 9           number.  It's a little harder for us because 

10           I can't swing the camera over --

11                  SENATOR MAYER:  I know, I'm just --

12                  MAYOR SPANO:  Sorry about that, 

13           Senator.

14                  We'll have to get you a specific 

15           number.  But yes the numbers are up, and they 

16           are performing very well.

17                  SENATOR MAYER:  Okay.  I'd love to see 

18           the increased Yonkers personal income tax and 

19           any Yonkers sales tax as a result of 

20           increased development.

21                  MAYOR SPANO:  We will make that 

22           available to you, Senator.

23                  SENATOR MAYER:  Thank you.  Thank you 

24           very much, Mr. Mayor.  Look forward to seeing 


                                                                   325

 1           you at home.

 2                  MAYOR SPANO:  Nice to see you, 

 3           Senator.

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 5                  Back to Assembly.  

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Yes, our Cities 

 7           chair, Assemblyman Bronson -- Braunstein, I'm 

 8           sorry, for 10 minutes.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Yes, I get 

10           mixed up with Harry Bronson all the time.  

11           Don't worry about --

12                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  No, no, 

13           Braunstein.  Ten minutes as the chair.

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  I'm not 

15           taking 10 minutes.  

16                  Good to see you, Mayor Spano.  

17                  I just want to follow up on what 

18           Steve Otis was talking about, and 

19           Senator Savino has been bringing it up, about 

20           the cybersecurity issues.  And you talked 

21           to -- that you're exploring insurance 

22           options.  

23                  Does your team have an estimate about 

24           how much it would cost to insure the city 


                                                                   326

 1           against a future cyberattack?

 2                  MAYOR SPANO:  We don't know what it 

 3           would have cost us as far as in terms of what 

 4           the cyberattack was going to cost us, because 

 5           we were lucky enough not to open the email, I 

 6           guess, when it came in.  Right?  But it still 

 7           affected us pretty deeply and it cost us 

 8           600,000 just to take care of the 

 9           infrastructure that we had to do to kind of 

10           go back in time and erase those moments and 

11           try to move forward.

12                  The question you're asking me is what 

13           do you think it would cost us in terms of 

14           insurance or what would it cost us in terms 

15           of repairs?

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Insurance.  

17           Like if you were exploring moving forward to 

18           insure yourself against a future cyberattack, 

19           does the city have an estimate of how much 

20           that would cost?

21                  MAYOR SPANO:  I would imagine we do, 

22           Mr. Chairman, and I will get that number to 

23           you.

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Okay.  


                                                                   327

 1           because I'm sure other cities -- it's a new 

 2           phenomenon, and I'm sure other cities are, 

 3           you know, looking into how to protect 

 4           themselves, and insurance is an option.  And 

 5           it's just a question of is this something 

 6           that -- an expense that other cities are 

 7           going to have to undertake moving forward.

 8                  MAYOR SPANO:  I will tell you, 

 9           Mr. Chairman.  When I was at the National 

10           Conference of Mayors -- and this was very 

11           much a part of their discussions -- it was 

12           made very, very crystal clear to us all that 

13           insurance is something that we ought to be 

14           doing.  Also they -- they also talked about 

15           the two-factor authorization.  So those are 

16           two key components that they were looking for 

17           all the mayors to do, and that's what we're 

18           in the process of trying to take care of.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Okay.  Okay, 

20           thank you.  Thanks, Chair Weinstein.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  To the Senate.  

22                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

23                  Senator John Liu.

24                  SENATOR LIU:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  


                                                                   328

 1                  And welcome, Mr. Mayor.

 2                  MAYOR SPANO:  Hi, Senator.

 3                  SENATOR LIU:  I hear all about you all 

 4           the time from my great colleague Senator 

 5           Mayer.  So I appreciated her question.  

 6                  My only question to you really is the 

 7           Governor talks about transit-oriented 

 8           development.  And I think that that would 

 9           affect part of Yonkers, if not a large part 

10           of Yonkers.  Is that correct?  

11                  MAYOR SPANO:  Yes.

12                  SENATOR LIU:  Is that something that 

13           your administration is in favor of?  Or do 

14           you think it might have some restrictions on 

15           the part of what the City of Yonkers could 

16           do?

17                  MAYOR SPANO:  No, I think when you're 

18           a city that has -- we have, I think, four or 

19           five train stations in our left, four or five 

20           train stations on our right, this is -- we 

21           have development being built all along those 

22           train stations.  Transit-oriented is 

23           something that we support and want to see 

24           happen.  


                                                                   329

 1                  We want -- you know, it's just that, 

 2           you know, when you're a city of 200,000 

 3           people built on 18 square -- what is it, 

 4           18 square acres or something like that?  But 

 5           it's where we're kind of running out of 

 6           space.  You know?  We're not Manhattan, and 

 7           we don't build that high.  But we're running 

 8           out of space.  So when we do these things, 

 9           we're very careful to make sure that, you 

10           know, we can accommodate the people, 

11           accommodate the traffic and be able to do 

12           this.

13                  Because, you know, at the end of the 

14           day, we want the housing, we want people to 

15           be able to afford to live in our city, and we 

16           want them to be able to travel to places like 

17           New York if they want to, you know, work or 

18           play.

19                  SENATOR LIU:  Okay, so it sounds 

20           like -- it sounds like there's a little bit 

21           of mixed feeling there, Mr. Mayor.

22                  MAYOR SPANO:  No.  We have supported 

23           it, and we'll continue to support it, yes.  

24           No, and we have.  And we'll --


                                                                   330

 1                  SENATOR LIU:  All right, great.  

 2           Thanks for that clarity.  Mr. Mayor --

 3                  (Overtalk.)

 4                  MAYOR SPANO:  Sorry about that, 

 5           Senator.  If I wasn't clear, I apologize for 

 6           that.  But I was trying to tell you that 

 7           yeah, we have supported it, it's just that 

 8           we're running into other issues that -- of 

 9           space, and just trying to make it all work.

10                  SENATOR LIU:  You know, in New York 

11           City -- which is your sister city to the 

12           south -- in New York City we have -- we're 

13           always looking to create more affordable 

14           housing, and part of that affordable housing 

15           is something called inclusionary zoning, 

16           which I'm not sure you have in Yonkers.  I'd 

17           be interested if you do have that.

18                  If we had transit-oriented development 

19           like the Governor was envisioning outside 

20           New York City, if we had that in New York 

21           City, that actually impairs the ability of 

22           the City of New York to conduct inclusionary 

23           zoning agreements in order to build 

24           affordable housing.  In other words, it's 


                                                                   331

 1           just a development giveaway to developers.  

 2           But you don't view it as such in Yonkers?  

 3                  I mean, people who own property near 

 4           those Yonkers train stations, their 

 5           properties essentially skyrocket in value 

 6           because of the Governor's proposals even 

 7           though there's no -- not necessarily any 

 8           requirement that they build affordable 

 9           housing.

10                  MAYOR SPANO:  Well, we're looking at 

11           that as well.  I mean, that's obviously very 

12           important to us.  But it's -- being that 

13           we're so close to New York City, we do have a 

14           lot of commuters who kind of like drive into 

15           Yonkers and then go to New York City.  And so 

16           all those are areas that are of concern to us 

17           because we're -- we try to figure out how to 

18           make it all work.

19                  And one of the ways that you could -- 

20           that a deep pocket could help us, like 

21           New York State, is to help build even parking 

22           facilities at these train stations.  You take 

23           a place like Yonkers that has -- if you 

24           really have -- if you built multi-tiered 


                                                                   332

 1           structures of parking, could really go a long 

 2           way towards making the programs that we love, 

 3           that are near and dear to us, happen if there 

 4           was that type of parking.

 5                  SENATOR LIU:  Okay.  Thank you very 

 6           much.  Thank you, Madam Chair.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

 8                  I think we have run out of Senators.

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Similarly, 

10           Assemblymembers.  So thank you --

11                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Oh, I'm sorry, 

12           Senator Savino did you -- was your question 

13           answered?  

14                  SENATOR SAVINO:  Well, I'm just happy 

15           to hear Mayor Spano acknowledge the 

16           challenges of cybersecurity risks and the 

17           necessity for it, so I don't have to ask him 

18           because he already understands it.  

19                  I would like to make the one point, 

20           though -- I think it was raised by 

21           Assemblyman Braunstein -- the issue of cyber 

22           insurance.  While it's certainly a tool in 

23           the toolbox, it is not a panacea for risks.  

24           What we really need -- and I think Mayor 


                                                                   333

 1           Spano's already indicated that -- is tools 

 2           from the state, more assistance, some funding 

 3           and, most importantly, employee training.  

 4                  It is critically important that 

 5           employees understand the necessity for 

 6           multifactor authentication, because breaches 

 7           happen at the desktop, at the laptop by the 

 8           staff.  And that's critically important.  And 

 9           that's where I think we can play a role, 

10           working with municipalities and local 

11           governments, to provide the tools that are 

12           necessary.  

13                  Insurers are beginning to refuse to 

14           pay out on many of these ransomware claims 

15           because of failure to provide the types of 

16           training that is necessary to prevent it.  

17                  So thank you for acknowledging the 

18           risk, and I look forward to working with you 

19           on it.

20                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you -- 

21                  MAYOR SPANO:  And Senator, that third 

22           component, you're a hundred percent right, is 

23           employee training.  We're working on that.  

24           That's a key, key component.  Because it was 


                                                                   334

 1           by pure luck that we had one employee who was 

 2           smart enough to catch the virus before they 

 3           opened it up.  And it was done on a Friday, 

 4           so no one was here and we were able to 

 5           isolate it and go from there.  So --

 6                  SENATOR SAVINO:  So important.  

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

 8                  And Assemblymember, I may have dissed 

 9           Assemblymember Nader by a mistake.

10                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Yes, that's 

11           what I was about to say.

12                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  I apologize.

13                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Assemblyman 

14           Sayegh.

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN SAYEGH:  Yes, thank you 

16           very much.  

17                  Mayor, always a pleasure.  As you 

18           know, we represent -- I represent Yonkers.  

19           Yonkers is completely my district.  And I've 

20           got to say, I've got to compliment you on, 

21           you know, not only Yonkers being the 

22           third-largest city in the state, but that 

23           really was as a result of an economic and 

24           population growth development on the 


                                                                   335

 1           waterfront.  

 2                  And with that, of course, came the 

 3           needs to make sure we have adequate funding 

 4           for education.  And I know in your 

 5           presentation you pointed to inequity in 

 6           educational funding and looked at a 

 7           possibility of changing the index.  But we 

 8           want to see if there's a possibility of going 

 9           further and sponsoring legislation that 

10           acknowledges that the population and social 

11           demographics have changed dramatically in 

12           Yonkers in urban ed.  That's why we're 

13           proposing legislation that as a start tells 

14           the state to start using the 2020 data, 

15           census data, rather than presently using the 

16           2000.  A lot of our kids in high school 

17           weren't even born when we're using this data.  

18                  And the other that we're proposing is 

19           to use the percentage of free and reduced 

20           lunch that we feel is the best reflection of 

21           the economic status of kids.

22                  So I just wanted to, you know, lend -- 

23           I know your initiative is to promote more 

24           funding, more equity.  We support the 


                                                                   336

 1           licensing for MGM, and we know that's 

 2           something that would benefit Yonkers and the 

 3           region.

 4                  But on the state funding inequity in 

 5           education, Mayor, is that something we should 

 6           lobby and should look at that addresses 

 7           Yonkers Public Schools and the long-term 

 8           needs?

 9                  MAYOR SPANO:  Don't forget -- I mean, 

10           if you look at the census, you know, we grew 

11           20,000 people and we have two Assembly 

12           districts, yours and Assemblyman Pretlow's, 

13           that had to be reduced by 10,000 each.

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN SAYEGH:  Correct.

15                  MAYOR SPANO:  So -- and for a city of 

16           200,000.  So that's a significant change in 

17           our population in that past 10 years.  

18                  And so, you know, while we beat out -- 

19           and I kid around about beating out Rochester 

20           for third, but we're only there by like 

21           400 people.  So -- but like I said, it took 

22           over 20,000 to get there.

23                  These are really important because, 

24           like I said, the percentage is so wide that 


                                                                   337

 1           if you don't take that into consideration, it 

 2           could potentially lead to us not getting the 

 3           proper funding.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN SAYEGH:  And the funding 

 5           from MGM, Mayor, how do you see that 

 6           benefiting Yonkers?  

 7                  MAYOR SPANO:  In so many different 

 8           ways.  And, you know, while I'll brag and say 

 9           yeah, it's great for Yonkers, they'll be the 

10           number-one employer of people in Yonkers, the 

11           number-one taxpayer -- but they'll be the 

12           number-one employer for Westchester and the 

13           number-one taxpayer.  

14                  And so there is a huge benefit not 

15           just to Yonkers, because it's Yonkers and 

16           Mount Vernon and the Bronx that is going to 

17           see the employment of people.  And then 

18           remember, you're talking about jobs that are 

19           paying an average 30-something dollars an 

20           hour.  So you're not -- you know, these are 

21           good solid positions in a region that 

22           absolutely needs it.  And, you know, Yonkers 

23           has a very low unemployment rate, I think 

24           it's 3.6 percent.  But, you know, we all know 


                                                                   338

 1           that there's underemployment in Yonkers.  

 2           While you have people working, because they 

 3           have to make ends meet, but they're working 

 4           two and three jobs to make it happen.  With a 

 5           job -- one job at Yonkers Raceway, what that 

 6           could mean to a working family in our region, 

 7           it's priceless.

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN SAYEGH:  Thank you very 

10           much, Mayor.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  So thank you, 

12           Mayor Spano, for being here.  

13                  And we are now going to go to the 

14           mayor of the City of Syracuse, the Honorable 

15           Ben Walsh.  You have 10 minutes on the clock, 

16           and feel free to speak now.

17                  MAYOR WALSH:  Great.  

18                  Thank you, Chair Weinstein, 

19           Chair Krueger and members of the legislative 

20           fiscal committees for inviting me to these 

21           joint hearings to discuss the State Budget 

22           again this year.

23                  I'm grateful to the Legislature for 

24           its support of Syracuse through profoundly 


                                                                   339

 1           challenging times in the history of New York 

 2           State.  The members of this Legislature have 

 3           staunchly stood by our city and its 

 4           residents.  I'm particularly appreciative of 

 5           the members of our local delegation -- 

 6           Senator Rachel May, Senator John Mannion, 

 7           Assemblyman Bill Magnarelli, Assemblywoman 

 8           Pam Hunter, and Assemblyman Al Stirpe.

 9                  From a fiscal standpoint, the events 

10           that have unfolded over the past year have 

11           been both surprising and fortunate.  When I 

12           last met with you, the prospects of federal 

13           pandemic relief to state and local 

14           governments were uncertain at best.  The 

15           projections for the impact of COVID-19 on 

16           sales tax receipts were still bleak.  And 

17           because of those conditions, ominous 

18           questions lingered over the reimbursement of 

19           withheld AIM and the possibility of AIM cuts 

20           going forward.

21                  For Syracuse, the outcome has been 

22           positive on each of these fronts.  The 

23           American Rescue Plan Act, or ARPA, delivered 

24           vitally important funding to our city and our 


                                                                   340

 1           state, enabling us to restore services and 

 2           invest in our recovery from the pandemic.  

 3           Sales tax revenue rebounded and far exceeded 

 4           anyone's expectations.  With those 

 5           developments, the state reimbursed the AIM 

 6           withholding to cities, and this Legislature 

 7           maintained AIM at the current levels.

 8                  As the early stages of the pandemic 

 9           fueled financial uncertainty, my 

10           administration and our Common Council acted.  

11           We made hard cuts in city services, 

12           implemented furloughs for city employees, and 

13           reduced spending by more than 15 percent.  

14           Because of those decisions, and the arrival 

15           of federal aid, the restoration of AIM, and 

16           the improvements in sales tax, we averted a 

17           financial crisis.

18                  We are implementing a comprehensive 

19           ARPA recovery strategy that invests first and 

20           foremost in programs to support children, 

21           families and neighborhoods.  The plan we are 

22           following is also committing funds to 

23           transform infrastructure and public spaces, 

24           invest in jobs and economic opportunity, and 


                                                                   341

 1           enhance government response and resilience.  

 2           Instead of facing a massive budget deficit, 

 3           we achieved a surplus in our last fiscal 

 4           year.  Our fund balance is now again at a 

 5           level that is responsible for a city our 

 6           size.

 7                  But despite our positive near-term 

 8           financial position, the fundamental 

 9           structural deficit facing Syracuse still 

10           exists.  So without determined fiscal 

11           discipline, continued economic growth and the 

12           increased support of our state government, 

13           Syracuse will be back in a state of fiscal 

14           crisis within just a few years.

15                  I'm heartened, though, by a recent 

16           record of financial decision-making, growth, 

17           and state partnership.  I believe we will 

18           become a fiscally sustainable city 

19           government, but it's going to take a little 

20           longer and we're going to need your continued 

21           support.  

22                  Today I ask for New York State's 

23           assistance on the road ahead for Syracuse in 

24           the following critical areas that will lift 


                                                                   342

 1           up the people we serve and our city 

 2           government:  Violence interruption, housing, 

 3           transportation, infrastructure, and city 

 4           finances.

 5                  First, Syracuse, like other cities in 

 6           the state, has suffered from an increase in 

 7           violence.  The lack of opportunity, eviction, 

 8           and trauma, exacerbated by the pandemic, 

 9           drive too many people to dangerous and 

10           violent acts.  Violent crime here was up 

11           3 percent last year.  Sadly, that means 

12           Syracuse actually performed better on violent 

13           crime and gun violence than many parts of 

14           New York State and the nation.

15                  To push back on violent crime and 

16           improve neighborhood safety, we are soon 

17           starting our fifth Police Academy class since 

18           I became mayor.  We're also investing in 

19           anti-crime technologies like more 

20           neighborhood street cameras and gunshot 

21           detection.  Syracuse needs more help, though, 

22           with solutions that go after the root causes 

23           of violent crime.

24                  Our legislative and funding priorities 


                                                                   343

 1           agenda for this year seeks funding for more 

 2           street-level violence interrupters through 

 3           the Division of Criminal Justice Services; 

 4           more trauma response to hospitals to help 

 5           victims of gun violence break free from 

 6           cycles of crime; additional funds to expand 

 7           teen outreach through our new and very 

 8           successful Syracuse Police Athletic League; 

 9           and resources to successfully launch our new 

10           Police Junior Cadet Program to give training 

11           and employment to recent high school grads 

12           who want to be police officers but are too 

13           young for the academy.

14                  I'm proud to report that we are also 

15           launching Syracuse's first Mayor's Office to 

16           Reduce Gun Violence.  We will model the 

17           office after other successful programs and 

18           are hiring for a director right now.  I urge 

19           the Legislature to commit state resources to 

20           these and other violence intervention 

21           efforts.

22                  The pandemic revealed massive 

23           frailties in housing in Syracuse and, as 

24           we've heard today, across the state.  We are 


                                                                   344

 1           taking comprehensive actions to hold property 

 2           owners accountable for ensuring safe and 

 3           healthy living conditions for tenants.  We 

 4           are pursuing the most extensive efforts to 

 5           build equal new housing in many decades in 

 6           Syracuse.  Our Resurgent Neighborhoods 

 7           Initiative is building 200 new affordable 

 8           single- and two-family homes all across the 

 9           city.  I'm proposing a major infusion of ARPA 

10           dollars to build more units quickly.  

11                  We are also advancing a large 

12           neighborhood and housing revitalization in a 

13           section of Syracuse's South Side adjacent to 

14           the Interstate 81 viaduct.  This massive 

15           effort will address a 27-block, 118-square- 

16           acre area that includes more than 1,000 units 

17           of public housing.  Known as the Old 15th 

18           Ward, the neighborhood and its residents have 

19           been badly impacted by the 81 highway 

20           bisecting their community.  

21                  The plan, known as Reconnecting the 

22           New 15th Ward, focuses on redeveloping the 

23           aging public housing properties with 

24           energy-efficient, quality new public housing 


                                                                   345

 1           and mixed-income units.  The $800 million 

 2           project is attracting public and private 

 3           investment from institutions and businesses 

 4           across Syracuse, and includes a push for a 

 5           HUD Neighborhood Grants program that would 

 6           realize up to $300 million in public and 

 7           private investment and direct assistance.  

 8           The state's Division of Housing and Community 

 9           Renewal is an engaged partner in this effort 

10           and has committed its support.  

11                  We applaud Governor Hochul's 

12           commitment to investment in housing and urge 

13           the Legislature to fully fund state programs 

14           for quality affordable housing.  

15                  Regarding transportation, the 

16           Governor's Executive Budget includes 

17           significant funding to begin construction on 

18           the Interstate 81 viaduct.  The state and 

19           federal environmental review process is 

20           continuing, and we anticipate we will begin 

21           on the preferred alternative, the Community 

22           Grid, this year.  It will remove the aging 

23           viaduct that has scarred the center of our 

24           city.  We are working closely with community 


                                                                   346

 1           stakeholders and the New York State 

 2           Department of Transportation to ensure we 

 3           create a more accessible and equitable city 

 4           and unlock the economic and community 

 5           development potential for this transformative 

 6           project.

 7                  We are also working with DOT, the 

 8           Federal Highway Administration, and community 

 9           partners to capitalize on the local workforce 

10           opportunities this project will create, 

11           especially for women, veterans, and people of 

12           color.  Syracuse has submitted one of the 

13           first applications in the nation for the 

14           federal SEP 14 local hiring initiative.  Our 

15           proposal includes hiring preferences for city 

16           residents, especially those in areas that 

17           struggle in poverty and have been 

18           historically left behind.

19                  Syracuse has welcomed additional 

20           investment through the Department of Labor 

21           for workforce development, and I urge the 

22           Legislature to ensure more funding is 

23           allocated so that we use this project and 

24           others like it to transform not just 


                                                                   347

 1           transportation, but people's lives.

 2                  Syracuse also needs strong state 

 3           support to improve our road infrastructure 

 4           citywide.  Last summer we reconstructed more 

 5           than 30 miles of streets, compared to about 

 6           4 miles the year before I took office.  We're 

 7           using more effective data-driven approaches 

 8           to prioritize streets for reconstruction, and 

 9           more effectively deploying the state and 

10           federal aid we receive.  The State Touring 

11           Routes funding, which is included in the 

12           Executive Budget again in fiscal year 2023, 

13           played a critical role in increasing our 

14           progress.  I thank the Legislature for your 

15           prior support of that funding and urge you to 

16           continue it in this budget year.

17                  In addition to investing in our roads, 

18           we're working with the Central New York 

19           Regional Transportation Authority to improve 

20           public transportation.  This is an essential 

21           priority for the people of Syracuse.  Last 

22           year I visited Albany to see firsthand the 

23           success of the CDTA's bus rapid transit 

24           system.  We need BRT in Syracuse and have a 


                                                                   348

 1           study from our Metropolitan Transportation 

 2           Council to move forward.  We are working with 

 3           our transportation authority to pursue every 

 4           federal and state option available for BRT 

 5           funding.

 6                  I'm aware my fellow upstate cities are 

 7           also seeking additional state investment in 

 8           public transportation.  It's my hope that the 

 9           upcoming State Budget will include 

10           substantial increases in both capital and 

11           operating assistance that will help BRT 

12           become a reality in Syracuse.  It will be a 

13           multi-year path, and we are determined to 

14           make it happen.

15                  Like other communities across the 

16           state and nation, Syracuse's water 

17           infrastructure also requires significant and 

18           sustained investment.  Since my first 

19           appearance at a State Budget hearing, I have 

20           had the extension of the drinking water 

21           intake pipe in Skaneateles Lake, the source 

22           of unfiltered water to the City of Syracuse 

23           and multiple other communities, on my 

24           priority list.  Using ARPA funds to pay 


                                                                   349

 1           nearly a quarter of the total cost, we will 

 2           move forward on the design and planning phase 

 3           for this critical project, which will help us 

 4           avoid the need to build a several-hundred- 

 5           million-dollar water filtration plant.  We 

 6           continue to need state assistance to fund the 

 7           remaining three-quarters of this safe 

 8           drinking water project.

 9                  As I noted earlier, reaching fiscal 

10           sustainability is achievable for the City of 

11           Syracuse.  We will continue to become more 

12           efficient and generate more growth in our 

13           city.  We also need additional revenue.  An 

14           essential source of revenue to Syracuse is 

15           New York State Aid and Incentives to 

16           Municipalities, or AIM funding.  I'm truly 

17           grateful for the Legislature's consistent 

18           support for AIM funding.  For 13 years, 

19           though, it has remained at the same level 

20           despite significant cost increases.  In this 

21           same time period, the overall State Budget 

22           has grown 75 percent.  Relative to Syracuse's 

23           city budget, which has grown about 

24           19 percent, AIM aid is down 21 percent. 


                                                                   350

 1           Respectfully, I urge the Legislature to 

 2           increase aid to municipalities, either by 

 3           adjusting AIM funding or, as recommended by 

 4           NYCOM, introducing a new mechanism for 

 5           additional state support to build on the 

 6           successful AIM program.

 7                  In closing, I want to thank the 

 8           legislative fiscal committees for the 

 9           opportunity to testify before you today.  As 

10           outlined today, our greatest needs are in the 

11           areas of violence prevention, housing, 

12           transportation, infrastructure, and city 

13           finances.  To advance from near-term 

14           stability to long-term sustainability, we 

15           welcome the ongoing partnership and support 

16           of New York State government.  Thank you.

17                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

18                  I don't see any Assemblymembers, so 

19           why don't we go to the Senate.

20                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Okay.  First we 

21           have Senator Rachel May.

22                  SENATOR MAY:  Thank you, 

23           Chair Krueger.

24                  And welcome, Mr. Mayor.  It's good to 


                                                                   351

 1           see you.

 2                  MAYOR WALSH:  Nice to see you, 

 3           Senator.

 4                  SENATOR MAY:  I wanted to follow up on 

 5           a couple of things you talked about.  The 

 6           I-81 project, I'm so excited that the 

 7           Governor wants to break ground this year 

 8           finally.

 9                  MAYOR WALSH:  Yeah.

10                  SENATOR MAY:  But we know this can be 

11           a transformative project, but we also know 

12           there are still a lot of moving parts to it 

13           and a lot of different governmental entities 

14           involved.  And so we need to make sure that 

15           there's good communication but also some 

16           flexibility built into it for troubleshooting 

17           as we go along, I think.

18                  Do you feel like that's in place or 

19           are there things that we at the state level 

20           need to do to either help or get out of the 

21           way in order to make this project the best it 

22           can be?

23                  MAYOR WALSH:  Yeah, I think all of the 

24           above, Senator.  You, as an example, have 


                                                                   352

 1           been a champion of the 81 project, and 

 2           specifically the Community Grid solution. 

 3           Unfortunately, I think we've spent too much 

 4           time debating the outcome of the 

 5           Community Grid and not enough time planning 

 6           for the very challenges that you identified.

 7                  So, you know, we do meet regularly 

 8           with New York State DOT.  We know New York 

 9           State DOT is meeting regularly with the 

10           Federal Highway Administration.  But I do 

11           think as we get closer to the project, a more 

12           formalized and enhanced multi-jurisdictional 

13           approach is necessary so we can really make 

14           sure that we maximize this 

15           once-in-a-generation opportunity.  So I would 

16           welcome the opportunity to work with you and 

17           your office and your colleagues on that.

18                  SENATOR MAY:  Great.

19                  And then about BRT, what can we do at 

20           the state level to make it happen?

21                  MAYOR WALSH:  Well, one, I want to 

22           acknowledge and thank you for going on our 

23           field trip to see the Albany BRT.  And, you 

24           know, Albany is a smaller city than Syracuse, 


                                                                   353

 1           so we know we can do it here. 

 2                  But we do need resources.  We're 

 3           certainly hopeful that through the federal 

 4           infrastructure bill and other federal 

 5           resources that we are able to avail ourselves 

 6           of those.  But, you know, we need not only 

 7           capital resources to fund standing up the BRT 

 8           system, we need operating resources.  

 9                  And, you know, the state's been a 

10           long-time supporter of public transit, but 

11           we're going to need more and we're going 

12           to -- as you look at how you might be able to 

13           direct more resources to operations, I think 

14           we want to make sure that we're doing it in a 

15           way that ensures the funding is going to 

16           actually expanding and enhancing the service 

17           in the form of BRT in Syracuse or in 

18           different forms in other communities, rather 

19           than just supporting existing operations.

20                  SENATOR MAY:  Okay, thanks.

21                  And then just with a few extra seconds 

22           I wanted to say I'm really happy about your 

23           emphasis on housing and affordable housing.  

24           We've talked before about the crisis in young 


                                                                   354

 1           people who are functionally homeless in 

 2           Syracuse.  I hope that you'll be really 

 3           paying attention to making sure that those 

 4           investments go to the people who most need 

 5           it.

 6                  MAYOR WALSH:  Absolutely.  Thank you.

 7                  SENATOR MAY:  Thank you.

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Assembly?

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We do not have 

10           any Assemblymembers, so why don't you 

11           continue, Senator.

12                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  All right.  We'll 

13           just continue to roll with the Senate.

14                  We next have Senator Jim Gaughran.

15                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Thank you, 

16           Madam Chair.

17                  It's nice to see you, Mr. Mayor.

18                  And Senator May only had three 

19           minutes, so I am sure if she had more time 

20           she would raise a question that I'm going to 

21           raise, and that is the importance of our 

22           state university teaching hospitals.  One of 

23           the concerns that we have -- and of course 

24           you have one in Syracuse.


                                                                   355

 1                  One of the concerns that we have is 

 2           that these hospitals have really been 

 3           stepping up in the pandemic and economically 

 4           really, you know, facing some challenges.  

 5           And unique to other academic institutions in 

 6           the SUNY system, they're stuck paying fringe 

 7           benefits and debt service.  So one of the big 

 8           things many of us are pushing for -- 

 9           including Senators May and Mannion -- is to 

10           have this budget relieve them of their debt 

11           service for all our university teaching 

12           hospitals.

13                  You know, what are your thoughts on 

14           that?  And perhaps what can you do to help, 

15           you know, lobby that we get this done?

16                  MAYOR WALSH:  Sure.  I think it's a 

17           great idea.  I can't even begin to fathom 

18           what the last two years would have looked 

19           like in Syracuse and in New York State 

20           without SUNY Upstate Medical University.  

21           They have been a champion.  They've been a 

22           long-time gem here in Syracuse and in this 

23           state.  

24                  But I think the way in which they 


                                                                   356

 1           stepped up during the pandemic from their 

 2           testing capacity to the services that they 

 3           provided -- not just here upstate, but going 

 4           downstate when our downstate neighbors needed 

 5           us -- make them invaluable to this community 

 6           and to New York State.

 7                  So I will happily join in on your 

 8           efforts to advocate for any financial relief 

 9           and support we can provide -- not just 

10           SUNY Upstate, but the other SUNY 

11           institutions.

12                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Sure.  We have them 

13           in other parts of the state, including 

14           Stony Brook in Long Island.

15                  Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor.

16                  MAYOR WALSH:  You got it.

17                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

18                  I think we're at Senator Savino.

19                  SENATOR SAVINO:  Thank you, Senator.

20                  So, Mayor Walsh, I will ask you the 

21           same question I'm asking all the mayors.  It 

22           is about the ever-present risks of 

23           cybersecurity challenges and ransomware 

24           attacks.


                                                                   357

 1                  What can the state do to help prepare 

 2           our municipalities, our local governments -- 

 3           particularly our school districts, which have 

 4           been particularly hard-hit during recent 

 5           years -- for responding to ransomware 

 6           attacks?  And what is the City of Syracuse 

 7           doing, and what can we do to help you?

 8                  MAYOR WALSH:  Yeah, thank you so much 

 9           for the question.  

10                  We are doing as much as we possibly 

11           can.  We do a lot of training for staff.  

12           We're moving our systems into the cloud as 

13           quickly as we can, but that digital 

14           transformation in and of itself takes time 

15           and resources.

16                  We do have cybersecurity insurance, 

17           but it's costly and we were recently informed 

18           that our carrier was going to be dropping us 

19           because a lot of the carriers are moving out 

20           of this industry, and then our costs could 

21           easily triple in the coming year.

22                  So any resources certainly that the 

23           state could provide could be helpful.  But I 

24           think -- related, I think a good analogy is 


                                                                   358

 1           what we've seen during the pandemic, the way 

 2           in which we've had a statewide coordinated 

 3           effort that brings municipalities together 

 4           with state agencies.  I think a much more 

 5           unified, comprehensive and coordinated effort 

 6           throughout New York State would be welcome, 

 7           in addition to more resources.

 8                  SENATOR SAVINO:  Thank you.  And it's 

 9           important that you pointed out that your 

10           insurance carrier may be dropping you.

11                  I think there's a false sense of 

12           security on the part of many, whether they be 

13           in government or even in business, that they 

14           just need cyber insurance and that will 

15           protect them -- when in fact that is not the 

16           case.  Many of the carriers are leaving, 

17           they're dropping people.  And in fact in many 

18           instances they're refusing to make payments.  

19           And so cyber insurance is not the solution to 

20           this.  It's better security, it's better 

21           practices, it's better cyber hygiene, it's 

22           training, training, training and support from 

23           the state all the way down to the smallest 

24           town and village.


                                                                   359

 1                  So thank you for your efforts, and I 

 2           look forward to working with you on this.

 3                  MAYOR WALSH:  Thank you, Senator.

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you both.

 5                  Assemblywoman, I think that is it --

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Yes, we have 

 7           Assemblyman Otis for a question now.

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Great.

 9                  Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and I want to 

10           follow up on Senator Savino's line of 

11           questioning on cyber.  

12                  Who in Syracuse do you work with now 

13           in terms of expertise on what moves you need 

14           to make?  Is it in-house?  Do you use outside 

15           consulting firms?  Who is your resource to 

16           guide you through this uncharted territory?

17                  MAYOR WALSH:  Well, we are lucky to 

18           have some really talented municipal employees 

19           here in city government.  But, you know, 

20           given the market right now, it's really hard 

21           to be able to attract and retain talent, 

22           given the limited resources that we have.

23                  So we do rely heavily on outside 

24           resources as well.  We pay a firm that 


                                                                   360

 1           essentially provides 24-hour security for us, 

 2           monitoring our emails for attachments and 

 3           other things.  So it's a combination.  But 

 4           increasingly, relying on outside services.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Great.  Thank you 

 6           very much.  And keep up the good work in 

 7           Syracuse.

 8                  MAYOR WALSH:  Thank you.

 9                  Assemblyman, I have to say I heard you 

10           were a hockey guy.  Google the Syracuse Pond 

11           Hockey Classic.  We just had it last weekend.  

12           It's the second one we've done.  It was a big 

13           success, so proud of it.

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Well I went to 

15           Hobart college and had the privilege of 

16           playing some of our games at the War Memorial 

17           and at the old rink at the Fairgrounds, which 

18           I think the old rink isn't there anymore.

19                  MAYOR WALSH:  The old coliseum, yeah.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  I still keep my 

21           moving parts moving, so thank you.

22                  (Laughter.)

23                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  I'm glad they're 

24           moving, Steve.


                                                                   361

 1                  Helene, moving to you.

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Yes.  

 3                  So Mayor Walsh, thank you for being 

 4           here.  There are no further questions.  We 

 5           look forward to continuing to work with you, 

 6           along with our colleagues in the Legislature.

 7                  MAYOR WALSH:  Thanks so much for your 

 8           support.

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

10                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  So next we're 

12           going to hear from the mayor of the City of 

13           Albany, where many of us are -- where we're 

14           now located, the Honorable Kathy Sheehan.

15                  MAYOR SHEEHAN:  Good afternoon, and 

16           thank you so much to Chairpersons Krueger and 

17           Weinstein for the opportunity to talk about 

18           issues pertaining to the City of Albany.  

19                  I do have to say, after watching all 

20           of my fellow mayors present, I do miss doing 

21           this in person because we typically then have 

22           the opportunity to get together and either 

23           celebrate or commiserate.  But certainly the 

24           camaraderie is similar to the camaraderie 


                                                                   362

 1           that I think you share there.

 2                  So I also want to thank the Senate 

 3           Finance Committee and the Assembly Ways and 

 4           Means Committee and of course our Capital 

 5           City delegation -- Senate Vice President 

 6           Pro Tem Neil Breslin, Assemblymembers 

 7           Pat Fahy and John McDonald -- who work very 

 8           closely with the city on issues that impact 

 9           us.  And these are issues that impact cities 

10           across the state, as you've heard today.  All 

11           of us have similar challenges.

12                  But as you know, I have been typically 

13           coming to this group with a challenge that's 

14           unique to the City of Albany, talking about 

15           the inequities of AIM funding, the fact that 

16           the state owns 64 percent of the property -- 

17           or 64 percent of the property in the city is 

18           not taxable, and an overwhelming majority of 

19           that is owned by the state.  And this body 

20           has always been very supportive of our 

21           request for Capital City funding.  

22                  And I am very pleased to see that the 

23           Governor, for the first time, has also 

24           recognized that this funding is critically 


                                                                   363

 1           important to the City of Albany and put it in 

 2           the Executive Budget.  

 3                  So I look forward to working with you 

 4           as the budget is finalized, and am very 

 5           hopeful that that funding will remain in the 

 6           budget with the support of this body and of 

 7           all of you.  It is critically important to 

 8           the City of Albany, and I believe that we've 

 9           demonstrated time and time again the impacts 

10           of the inequity on the City of Albany.

11                  But I also want to talk a little bit 

12           about what our other mayors have talked 

13           about, which is AIM funding in general.  You 

14           know, I've been fighting for Capital City 

15           funding, but at the same time supportive of 

16           the fact that we need to revisit AIM.  It 

17           hasn't risen, as you've heard, in a number of 

18           years.  While we've seen other areas of the 

19           budget and aid to other very important 

20           institutions -- like our schools -- go up, we 

21           continue to struggle.

22                  And now more than ever, as cities are 

23           trying to ensure that we have full staffs in 

24           place, all of us are struggling with 


                                                                   364

 1           recruitment of police officers, firefighters.  

 2           And uniquely to Albany, because we are here 

 3           in the capital and the state is very generous 

 4           with their pay and benefits, I feel like 

 5           almost every other week I'm losing a 

 6           super-talented person to the state.  I'm glad 

 7           that they're going to go and benefit the 

 8           state, but it makes it a very challenging 

 9           hiring environment.

10                  So I think it's very important that we 

11           revisit AIM.  I'm currently the first 

12           vice president of NYCOM, and this is one of 

13           our number-one priorities, to work with you 

14           to ensure that not only is AIM -- do we have 

15           enough funding and this -- you know, the 

16           Assembly and the Senate have supported AIM, 

17           and thank you for keeping AIM in the budget 

18           all of these years.  But I think it's also 

19           time to revisit the formula and to really 

20           talk about the needs of our cities and how we 

21           can use AIM to address those needs, 

22           particularly, as I said, as we see health 

23           insurance, equipment, supplies and personnel 

24           costs just continue to increase.  


                                                                   365

 1                  And there's a lot of pressure on our 

 2           workforce as we are challenged in delivering 

 3           essential city services.  Right now I'm 

 4           down -- about 17 percent of my positions are 

 5           open positions.  And these are, many of them, 

 6           in critical, critical areas that we really 

 7           need in order to be able to deliver essential 

 8           city services.

 9                  So I look forward to continuing that 

10           conversation.  We'd love to see the 

11           cost-of-living adjustment to AIM in this 

12           budget and then work to talk about how we can 

13           make sure that we're implementing AIM in a 

14           way that works for local governments.

15                  I also want to mention a problem 

16           that's not to be solved today but don't want 

17           anybody surprised.  One of the things that is 

18           unique to the City of Albany is the PILOT 

19           payment that we receive for the Empire State 

20           Plaza.  That is set to expire in 2031, which 

21           is -- you know, seems far away, especially 

22           given all of the challenges that we've been 

23           dealing with for the last two years.  But I 

24           think it's important that we start the 


                                                                   366

 1           conversation.

 2                  That payment was designed to provide 

 3           the city -- it was a legal obligation with 

 4           funding for the property that was taken.  It 

 5           represents less than 0.3 percent of the value 

 6           of the property that the state owns in 

 7           Albany.  And it is not state aid.  So I think 

 8           it's really important that we make that legal 

 9           clarification.  It's a legal obligation to 

10           make the city -- or try to make the city 

11           somewhat up for the loss of 90 acres, 

12           hundreds of businesses, and nearly 10,000 

13           residents that were displaced when the 

14           Empire State Plaza was built.  And there's 

15           really no way to really recreate that in a 

16           landlocked city like the City of Albany.

17                  I also want to talk about some of the 

18           great things that we've been able to do, 

19           thanks to the hard work and the recognition 

20           that local governments need additional 

21           resources and when we invest those resources 

22           we improve our communities.  I'm grateful for 

23           the focus on making sure that we have funding 

24           for violence reduction efforts and 


                                                                   367

 1           opportunities and programs that work and that 

 2           demonstrate that we can demonstrate work.  

 3                  We are very grateful for the Touring 

 4           Routes funding that we received.  It's going 

 5           to allow us to be far more impactful in the 

 6           investments that we are making.  And in the 

 7           City of Albany one of the things that we are 

 8           really committed to is equity.  And so we are 

 9           looking and grading our roads by ward and 

10           really focusing on the areas where we have 

11           the highest number of roads that rank in poor 

12           or worse condition, and making sure that we 

13           are focusing our efforts on those 

14           neighborhoods.  If we invest in those 

15           neighborhoods, we fundamentally believe that 

16           the private sector will come and invest 

17           behind us because we're creating 

18           neighborhoods where people want to live.

19                  We're also focusing on our 

20           infrastructure.  We purchased our street 

21           lights a couple of years ago.  The COVID 

22           pandemic delayed the full implementation, but 

23           we now have that program fully implemented.  

24           And we are seeing not only incredible savings 


                                                                   368

 1           from that, but we're also seeing improved 

 2           public safety and the opportunity for us to 

 3           further enhance public safety by being able 

 4           to install cameras and other equipment onto 

 5           our new "smart" light poles to make our 

 6           communities safer.

 7                  We are looking forward to implementing 

 8           and continuing to implement our Corning 

 9           Preserve Waterfront Plan, and we've been 

10           successful in getting grant funding from the 

11           state in order to do that.  We're very 

12           excited about the Livingston Avenue Rail 

13           Bridge -- this is something that the Governor 

14           has spoken about and talked about in her 

15           State of the State.  We want to work 

16           diligently with our local partners to 

17           implement MRTA.  And I look forward to 

18           sharing updates with you as we continue to do 

19           transformative projects in the City of 

20           Albany.  

21                  I look forward to inviting all of you 

22           to the opening of the Skyway, which would not 

23           have been possible without funding from the 

24           state.  And it is our mini version of the 


                                                                   369

 1           High Line, and it's really exciting to see it 

 2           come to fruition in the City of Albany.

 3                  So I want to close by simply saying 

 4           please keep the $15 million of Capital City 

 5           funding in the State Budget.  And I 

 6           respectfully ask that you index it to make it 

 7           permanent.  And we also want to add and 

 8           ensure that we are working with cities across 

 9           the state to make sure that we have the 

10           resources that we need in order deliver safe, 

11           attractive cities that will continue to 

12           attract businesses and residents for years to 

13           come.

14                  Thank you.

15                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you, 

16           Mayor.

17                  We go to Assemblyman McDonald first, 

18           for three minutes.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN McDONALD:  Thank you, 

20           Chair.

21                  And thank you, Mayor, in your dual 

22           role, not only as an officer of NYCOM and 

23           advocating for the long-overdue AIM increase, 

24           but also for the great work that you've done.  


                                                                   370

 1           And the voters are very happy too, because 

 2           you're going to be here for another four 

 3           years. 

 4                  You know, you mentioned the arterial 

 5           aid, which was always a big effort that I 

 6           always was focused on, being a former mayor.  

 7           I guess out of curiosity -- as you know, it's 

 8           allocated again in the budget this year, but 

 9           it was kind of late coming out last year.  

10           Were you able to implement some of it, or 

11           not, or where do things stand?

12                  MAYOR SHEEHAN:  So we actually are 

13           ready to implement it.  We have not let the 

14           contract yet because we're waiting to see 

15           where the tip comes in.  The federal funding 

16           is coming down at the same time, and those 

17           decisions are being made by our planning 

18           authority.

19                  But we are definitely oversubscribed 

20           for the tip, and the wonderful thing about 

21           that is that we don't have to disappoint, 

22           that we will be able to deliver on the 

23           promise to communities of moving forward with 

24           some of these long-overdue improvements to 


                                                                   371

 1           our touring roads.  So we look forward to 

 2           implementing it very rapidly.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN McDONALD:  That's great.

 4                  I also want to commend -- and I think 

 5           I want to share with my colleagues as well -- 

 6           the ARPA funds, your process of engaging the 

 7           community over a long period of time to 

 8           solicit feedback has been very transparent 

 9           and open.  Let's face it, all of our cities 

10           have a lot of needs.  We know that all those 

11           needs won't be met.  But the reality is 

12           you've done an all-encompassing aspect of 

13           that, and you should be commended for that.

14                  MAYOR SHEEHAN:  Well, thank you, I 

15           appreciate it.  And as you know, we have 

16           requests out.  We're looking to invest 

17           $25 million in the community this year.  

18                  And we are requiring our departments 

19           to apply for that funding if they want that 

20           funding for a specific, you know, rec center 

21           improvement or public safety improvement, so 

22           that we can really be transparent and, when 

23           we are done, be able to say to New York State 

24           and to our friends at the federal government, 


                                                                   372

 1           this is how we spent this money, these are 

 2           the transformational changes we were able to 

 3           make.  

 4                  So it's very exciting.  Far different 

 5           from where we were this time last year, and 

 6           really very grateful to have this resource 

 7           and this opportunity for our cities.

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN McDONALD:  Finally, you're 

 9           right, eventually this program expires for 

10           the City of Albany, so we need to be mindful, 

11           even when I don't think either one of us will 

12           be around by then, but you never know.  

13                  And at the same token, you know, the 

14           mention about AIM not only by yourself but 

15           your predecessors is critical.  As much as 

16           everyone seems to be drunk with money these 

17           days, we know that party will not last 

18           forever.  And there are a lot of commitments, 

19           particularly in regards to retaining folks in 

20           our workforce.

21                  So we're with you, and thank you.

22                  MAYOR SHEEHAN:  Thank you.

23                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

24                  To the Senate.


                                                                   373

 1                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Senator Robert 

 2           Jackson.

 3                  SENATOR JACKSON:  Thank you, 

 4           Madam Chair.

 5                  Let me say to you that I read your 

 6           statement and I wholeheartedly agree with you 

 7           as far as how Albany is being mistreated 

 8           unfairly as far as AIM is concerned.  I mean, 

 9           I don't want to talk about New York City, but 

10           I'll just mention to you, New York City used 

11           to get AIM funding.  We don't anymore.  This 

12           goes back several years.  And some people 

13           feel, well, because it was eliminated then, 

14           that means we're not entitled to get it 

15           anymore.  And I'm saying, wait a minute, 

16           we're a city just like everyone else.  And 

17           everyone else has continued to receive 

18           funding.  But I don't want to talk about 

19           New York City.  

20                  But Albany is our state's capital.  

21           And if in fact you need that in order to 

22           carry out your business as far as Albany is 

23           concerned -- and I heard you say how much 

24           you're losing people as far as employees of 


                                                                   374

 1           Albany to the State of New York.  I mean, 

 2           what's right is right and what's fair is 

 3           fair.  And quite frankly, you deserve it.  

 4           And anything that I can do as a State Senator 

 5           from New York City -- not, you know, to be 

 6           advocating for New York City; I can do that 

 7           separately.  But I want to make sure you're 

 8           treated correctly.

 9                  But I say to you the City of Albany 

10           and the people of Albany -- and especially 

11           when you talked about that information, the 

12           time frame for the state to pay up for the 

13           Empire State Plaza, where thousands of people 

14           used to live, so forth and so on.  And I say 

15           to you that even when I'm up in Albany, in 

16           the evening I run in the plaza from one to 

17           the other for about three or four miles just 

18           to get some exercise when it's freezing 

19           outside.  So I thank you for that, and I 

20           thank you for keeping us safe while we're up 

21           in Albany.  

22                  And I appreciate the fact that the job 

23           that you have is a tough job in Albany.  So 

24           thank you.


                                                                   375

 1                  MAYOR SHEEHAN:  Thank you so much.

 2                  SENATOR JACKSON:  Thank you, 

 3           Madam Chair.

 4                  MAYOR SHEEHAN:  Appreciate the 

 5           support.

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go to 

 7           Assemblywoman Jackson.

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:  Thank you, 

 9           Chair.

10                  Mayor, this is our first time meeting 

11           and I just want to say thank you for all the 

12           work that you have done here in the city.  I 

13           spend a lot of time here now as a new 

14           legislator, with my son.  

15                  And I just know that there is not a 

16           lot happening in the downtown area -- {video 

17           lost}, so I would love to know what kind of 

18           support you need from us so that we can have 

19           some kind of -- you know, I drive through the 

20           neighborhoods and I'll see like X's on 

21           buildings -- oh, wait.  They say my internet 

22           is unstable.

23                  MAYOR SHEEHAN:  Yeah, I am able to 

24           hear you, though.  It's cutting out just a 


                                                                   376

 1           little bit.

 2                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:  I'm going to 

 3           cut off my --

 4                  I see X's on buildings that look 

 5           vacant, and I just want to know what that 

 6           actually signifies and how we can support 

 7           with more people being housed in this area, 

 8           to make sure that it's lively for the city.

 9                  MAYOR SHEEHAN:  Great, thank you.  And 

10           I'm excited that you're here.  We have a lot 

11           more people in our downtown, which was part 

12           of a very intentional and strategic 

13           investment of converting old office buildings 

14           into residential.  

15                  And so I moved downtown; I live in our 

16           Arbor Hill neighborhood.  And it's really 

17           been incredible to see even during the 

18           pandemic all of the construction continue and 

19           those apartments fill up.  And a lot of that 

20           happened because of state aid that was 

21           available.

22                  The red-X buildings, that's a state 

23           building code requirement.  So if a building 

24           is deemed by our fire department not to be 


                                                                   377

 1           safe to enter, it has to have a placard on it 

 2           so that when first responders show up to that 

 3           building they know that it's not safe to 

 4           enter it.  

 5                  We have reduced the number of red-X 

 6           buildings by 30 percent over the last 

 7           18 months, and our goal is to continue to do 

 8           that.  We have been very intentional with 

 9           resources that we've put in place, grant 

10           funding that we've put in place, to be able 

11           to help to rehabilitate those buildings and 

12           get those red X's off those buildings.

13                  We don't own them, surprisingly.  I 

14           would say that only about 30 percent of the 

15           buildings that you see with a red X on them 

16           are tax delinquent.  These are for the most 

17           part owned by LLCs, by out-of-town investors 

18           who hold a portfolio who are very hard to get 

19           service of process to, and John McDonald has 

20           been outstanding in his efforts to introduce 

21           legislation and has successfully passed 

22           legislation to allow us to move more quickly 

23           to address those buildings.

24                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:  Thank you so 


                                                                   378

 1           much.  That's exactly what I needed to know.

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

 3                  Senator Krueger, do you -- I don't see 

 4           any other Senators, but I do have --

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  I 

 6           believe Senator Savino has a question for 

 7           this mayor, as she did the other mayors.

 8                  (Overtalk.)

 9                  SENATOR SAVINO:  Great to see you, 

10           Mayor Sheehan.

11                  So I'll be brief.  It's with respect 

12           to the issue of cybersecurity, cyber 

13           breaches, ransomware attacks.  As we know, 

14           local governments, school districts, everyone 

15           are certainly at risk.  The Biden 

16           administration has signed national security 

17           documents indicating it is the national 

18           security threat of our lifetime.  

19                  So I'm wondering what the City of 

20           Albany is doing, what the state can be doing 

21           more to help our local governments and what 

22           we can do to work more collaboratively to 

23           protect the City of Albany and everyone here 

24           from the risks of cybersecurity attacks.


                                                                   379

 1                  MAYOR SHEEHAN:  Thanks for that 

 2           question, Senator.  It is good to see you 

 3           although, again, I wish we were in person.

 4                  SENATOR SAVINO:  Yes.

 5                  MAYOR SHEEHAN:  You know, Albany has 

 6           lived with this.  We had a cyber attack in 

 7           2019, April of 2019, shortly after the City 

 8           of Atlanta.  I don't know if the hackers were 

 9           going through and finding cities that started 

10           with A, but we were part of that.  And, you 

11           know, I believe as my fellow Mayor Spano 

12           indicated, we are advised not to talk very 

13           much about how we were successful in fighting 

14           that, only because we don't want to encourage 

15           somebody else to try.

16                  SENATOR SAVINO:  Right.

17                  MAYOR SHEEHAN:  But I want to say that 

18           there were two outstanding resources that are 

19           available at the state level.  State ITS was 

20           invaluable to us.  They sent resources over 

21           here, they helped us as we worked with the 

22           FBI and with other law enforcement, and they 

23           were really, really helpful in our post-event 

24           analysis of really doing all that we could do 


                                                                   380

 1           to even further reduce the impact.  We were 

 2           fortunate that the impact was relatively 

 3           minimal.  But they've been an outstanding 

 4           resource.  

 5                  And also UAlbany, its new ETEC 

 6           building, its Emergency Preparedness school, 

 7           cybersecurity is part of that.  And so we 

 8           look forward to -- and I offered to them, 

 9           when we did the ribbon-cutting, you know, 

10           We'll be your guinea pig, we are willing to 

11           work with the state to do all that we can to 

12           further secure and do what we need to be 

13           doing to protect our systems.

14                  SENATOR SAVINO:  Thank you.  Good to 

15           see you again.

16                  MAYOR SHEEHAN:  Good to see you.

17                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We have one 

18           more member, Assemblyman Mamdani.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  Thank you, 

20           Chair Weinstein.

21                  Thank you, Mayor Sheehan.  Just wanted 

22           to ask you a quick question regarding 

23           housing.  

24                  So Albany was the first city in the 


                                                                   381

 1           state to pass good-cause eviction, and we're 

 2           considering it now at the state level.  How 

 3           has good cause impacted housing conditions in 

 4           the City of Albany?

 5                  MAYOR SHEEHAN:  Well, we've been sued.  

 6           So, you know, I think that -- we worked 

 7           really hard with housing advocates and I 

 8           think got to a place where, you know, not -- 

 9           it's hard to make everybody happy, but we 

10           were really excited.  You know, once we 

11           understood what the challenges were that 

12           housing advocates were attempting to address, 

13           we really worked hard to engage with 

14           landlords as well as tenant groups.  And I'm 

15           really proud of our legislation.

16                  We have been sued, and the argument is 

17           that we are preempted by the state.  So I 

18           think if the state were to pass it, then it 

19           would allow us to move forward with something 

20           that is really important, especially as we 

21           see, you know, pretty scary numbers as the 

22           moratorium has been lifted and as we try to 

23           sort out what is going to happen as a result 

24           of that.


                                                                   382

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  And so, Mayor, 

 2           would you say that you're in favor of the 

 3           state passing good-cause eviction?

 4                  MAYOR SHEEHAN:  Yes.  I mean, you 

 5           know, I think that it certainly would then 

 6           end this litigation and allow us to continue 

 7           with enforcement and implementation.

 8                  It's common sense.  And I think that 

 9           when you have security in housing, then you 

10           have security in families.  And it makes -- 

11           you know, we have such transience that we 

12           see, and it impacts school performance, you 

13           know, it impacts people's mental health, it 

14           creates anxiety, and it takes resources from 

15           the people who are in the least position to 

16           be able to marshal those resources.  

17                  You know, changing apartments for some 

18           is like, Hey, I'm going to go look for a new 

19           apartment because I want a better place to 

20           live.  For others, the idea of coming up with 

21           first and last month's rent, filling out the 

22           applications, paying application fees -- it 

23           is a devastating, devastating prospect when 

24           you're told that you're going to be -- your 


                                                                   383

 1           lease is not going to be renewed or you're 

 2           going to be evicted with no good cause.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  Absolutely.  I 

 4           couldn't agree more.  Thank you so much for 

 5           your testimony and for your work.

 6                  MAYOR SHEEHAN:  Thanks.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  

 8           Thank you, Mayor.  I just wanted to send 

 9           regards from Assemblywoman Fahy.  Just for 

10           your information, the members are restricted 

11           to the relevant committees that cosponsor 

12           this hearing, and she is unfortunately not 

13           one of them.  So she just texted me to please 

14           send her regards.

15                  And with that, I thank you for being 

16           here with us today, and we look forward to 

17           continuing this discussion as we move to 

18           conclude the budget.  Thank you.

19                  MAYOR SHEEHAN:  Thank you so much.

20                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Good to see you, 

21           Kathy.  Thank you.

22                  MAYOR SHEEHAN:  Thank you, Senator.  

23           Thank you, Assemblywoman.  

24                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  And now we will 


                                                                   384

 1           move to -- we've gone through the list of our 

 2           mayors from big cities, and we're going to 

 3           next have as a witness the new New York City 

 4           comptroller, the Honorable Brad Lander.

 5                  Welcome.

 6                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Thank you so 

 7           much.  

 8                  Good afternoon, Chair Weinstein, Chair 

 9           Krueger, and members of the Legislature.  I'm 

10           honored to be here, as the chair says, for 

11           the first time as New York City comptroller, 

12           and grateful for the opportunity to discuss 

13           the state's Executive Budget with you.  

14                  I'm also joined today by Francesco 

15           Brindisi, our executive deputy comptroller 

16           for budget and finance.  

17                  More details are in my written 

18           testimony, and I'm happy to answer questions 

19           at the end.  

20                  The numbers suggest that we are 

21           at last, and fitfully, turning the corner on 

22           a pandemic that has been devastating for so 

23           many New Yorkers and shined a harsh spotlight 

24           on inequities in our economy.  In New York 


                                                                   385

 1           City the unemployment rate is now 

 2           8.8 percent, still double the nation's, and 

 3           jobs remain more than 400,000 below 

 4           February 2020.  But as the Omicron surge 

 5           wanes, we do see many signs of economic 

 6           recovery.  However, there are serious 

 7           concerns about how that recovery will be 

 8           shared.  Federal and state rescue spending 

 9           saved millions from eviction and food 

10           insecurity and bankruptcy, but now much of 

11           that relief is expiring just as inflation is 

12           eroding family spending power.  So the 

13           critical questions for this moment are, are 

14           we on path for an inclusive recovery?  And 

15           how is the Executive Budget facilitating it?

16                  We've got a unique opportunity to 

17           spend one-time federal funds and surplus 

18           states tax revenues to address the impacts of 

19           the pandemic, to confront the inequalities it 

20           exposed and exacerbated, to address the cost 

21           of living for working families, and to 

22           prepare now for future crises by building up 

23           both our fiscal resilience and our climate 

24           resilience.


                                                                   386

 1                  First and foremost, we must support 

 2           New Yorkers who are currently struggling to 

 3           stay in their homes and care for their 

 4           families as costs rise, so it's critical to 

 5           replenish funding for the Emergency Rental 

 6           Assistance Program and the Excluded Workers 

 7           Fund.  We should not neglect thousands of 

 8           New Yorkers who were denied relief simply 

 9           because funds ran out before their turn.

10                  The next round of rental assistance 

11           funding should also address the exclusion of 

12           public housing residents, and we must protect 

13           tenants who are paying their rent but facing 

14           eviction nonetheless from real estate 

15           investors profiteering off the pandemic with 

16           good-cause eviction protections.

17                  Next, we must raise the floor for 

18           low-wage workers, so many of whom have been 

19           on the front lines of this crisis.  With 

20           inflation eroding purchasing power for 

21           families, it's time to revisit New York's 

22           minimum wage.  We can't leave people at the 

23           bottom of the income ladder behind.

24                  During my time in the City Council, I 


                                                                   387

 1           was proud to pass legislation to create a 

 2           minimum pay standard for app-based for-hire 

 3           drivers and deliveristas, but a far better 

 4           answer would be for the state to pass 

 5           legislation to properly classify gig workers 

 6           as employees, to guarantee the minimum wage, 

 7           workers' comp, unemployment insurance, 

 8           healthcare and rights to organize that all 

 9           workers need and deserve.

10                  We must strengthen the social safety 

11           net, including expanded access to health 

12           insurance for low-income undocumented adults 

13           through coverage for all; mental health 

14           investments, as the mayor called for this 

15           morning; and the high-quality, affordable 

16           childcare that the pandemic reminded us how 

17           urgently parents and caregivers need.  I urge 

18           you to support the swift adoption of a cost 

19           estimation model and establish a $500 million 

20           Workforce Compensation Fund to stabilize the 

21           sector and build toward a system of universal 

22           childcare.  

23                  And to expand economic mobility for 

24           the next generation, the Legislature should 


                                                                   388

 1           pass the New Deal for CUNY.

 2                  These steps toward a more vibrant and 

 3           inclusive economy must go hand-in-hand with 

 4           investments in safe and affordable 

 5           neighborhoods.  This year we have a unique 

 6           opportunity -- indeed, a responsibility -- to 

 7           fix New York City's broken property tax 

 8           system.  The city's tax commission was a good 

 9           start.  It confirmed that the current system 

10           is regressive and proposed concrete 

11           solutions.  So the time is now for the 

12           Legislature to act, and the expiration of 

13           421-a really creates the opportunity.

14                  You already know that 421-a is a 

15           $1.7 billion tax giveaway that subsidizes 

16           gentrification and creates little truly 

17           affordable housing.  The majority of the 

18           supposedly affordable units are at levels 

19           that three-quarters of New York City's 

20           families can't afford, and the new proposal 

21           doesn't change that.  But the underlying 

22           issue here is the flaw in our property tax 

23           system -- the disparate taxation of 

24           homeownership and rentals which discourages 


                                                                   389

 1           rental housing development in favor of 

 2           condos. 

 3                  So we shouldn't tinker around the 

 4           edges with slightly different numbers and 

 5           letters.  Instead, the Legislature should 

 6           allow 421-a to expire, and then set a 

 7           deadline at the end of this calendar year to 

 8           achieve long-overdue comprehensive property 

 9           tax reform that would eliminate inequities 

10           amongst different homeowners, create parity 

11           between rentals and condos for future 

12           development, and allow the city to target its 

13           scarce affordable housing subsidies to truly 

14           affordable housing.

15                  I would be delighted to work with 

16           legislators on such a plan.  I genuinely 

17           believe we can achieve it this year.

18                  And lastly on housing, the budget 

19           can't exclude NYCHA's 400,000 residents.  But 

20           even with additional state, city and 

21           hopefully federal support, the need would 

22           remain gaping.  The NYCHA Preservation Trust 

23           is a promising approach that merits very 

24           strong consideration.  My office plans to 


                                                                   390

 1           engage with residents about the proposal in 

 2           the coming weeks and seek to develop ways 

 3           that residents would be meaningfully and 

 4           permanently involved in oversight.

 5                  As we look beyond the current crisis 

 6           it's clear that climate change is the biggest 

 7           long-term crisis we face.  I'm proud to 

 8           report that two of the city's pension funds 

 9           recently completed divestment from fossil 

10           fuels, with a third on the way.  But we won't 

11           meet our goals unless public funding matches 

12           the urgency of the crisis.  

13                  I urge you to eliminate $330 million 

14           in state fossil fuel subsidies and to support 

15           the Build Public Renewables Act to create the 

16           groundwork for a 100 percent renewable 

17           publicly owned state energy system.  We hope 

18           to get started on this work in the city 

19           through our plan for Public Solar NYC.

20                  We also need stronger building codes 

21           and efficiency standards, emissions 

22           benchmarking for large buildings, and an 

23           accelerated timeline for banning new gas 

24           hookups, following the lead of New York City.


                                                                   391

 1                  Thanks to the budget agreement last 

 2           year, New York City schools are set to 

 3           receive close to $9 billion in Foundation 

 4           Aid, finally honoring a decades-long crusade.  

 5           Thank you, RJ and others.  I commend Governor 

 6           Hochul for honoring this commitment.  

 7                  Another top priority must be the 

 8           humanitarian crisis in our jails.  Rather 

 9           than reverse progress, we must ensure that 

10           judges are complying with the 2019 reforms so 

11           that no one is detained before trial simply 

12           because they can't afford to pay.  In this 

13           moment of anxiety about public safety, we 

14           must pursue investments in evidence-based 

15           approaches to address the root causes of 

16           violence, not fuel punitive strategies that 

17           produced the era of mass incarceration.

18                  On transit, the federal government has 

19           filled the MTA budget gaps in the short term, 

20           but we must confront the fact that ridership 

21           and farebox revenue may not recover to 

22           pre-pandemic levels.  So the state will need 

23           to begin considering new revenue sources that 

24           don't increase burdens on riders.  Like my 


                                                                   392

 1           predecessor, I think a higher percentage of 

 2           the gas tax should be allocated to transit 

 3           rather than road building.

 4                  With implementation of congestion 

 5           pricing finally on the horizon, I urge you to 

 6           maintain a firm commitment toward equity and 

 7           reject any additional exemptions.  And I 

 8           share concerns about the proposed Penn 

 9           Station general project plan.  We need more 

10           transparency about the financing, 

11           understanding of risk, and assurance that our 

12           tax dollars will go to real transit 

13           investments.

14                  For the first time in modern history, 

15           the state's financial plan forecasts baseline 

16           surpluses in every year, yet cost shifts and 

17           revenue intercepts continue that will cost 

18           the city more than $1 billion per year.  So I 

19           urge you to reject the permanent extension of 

20           the sales tax intercept, a $200 billion cost 

21           shift, and right costs imposed by the state 

22           in past years, including the charter tuition 

23           mandates.

24                  Now, the State Budget rightly includes 


                                                                   393

 1           a plan to build up long-term fiscal returns, 

 2           and we need to do the same at the city level.  

 3           My office will propose a more structured and 

 4           rule-based framework for the city's rainy day 

 5           fund to do just that.  I also support state 

 6           legislation to make the general debt reserve 

 7           service permanent, as the mayor proposed this 

 8           morning, but I urge you to reject the city's 

 9           request to add $19 billion to the 

10           Transitional Finance Authority debt limit.  

11           It is premature and imprudent at this time.

12                  Finally, I would like to discuss one 

13           legislative priority that impacts the ability 

14           of our public pension funds to deliver for 

15           our public-sector retirees.  We need the 

16           Legislature to modernize Section 177 of the 

17           Retirement and Social Security Law, known as 

18           the Basket Clause.  That law, established in 

19           1960 in a dramatically different investment 

20           context, hampers our ability to prudently 

21           diversify our portfolio.  Making this change 

22           will improve pension fund returns and 

23           therefore save money for state and city 

24           budgets in the long term.  There's more on 


                                                                   394

 1           this in my written testimony, and I'm happy 

 2           to answer questions about it.

 3                  Look, much uncertainty remains in our 

 4           understanding of both public health and the 

 5           economy, so we should approach the future 

 6           with humility but also real ambition to build 

 7           something better.  Thank you.

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you, 

 9           Comptroller.

10                  We go to Assemblyman Braunstein, the 

11           chair of our Cities Committee, for 10 

12           minutes.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Thank you, 

14           Mr. Comptroller, for testifying today for the 

15           first time.  And also it was good to see you 

16           out in Queens last weekend.  Good to see you 

17           again.

18                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  That was 

19           excellent drumming that we saw.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Yes.  Yes.

21                  First, I want to thank you for your 

22           support for comprehensive property tax 

23           reform.  I think it's been too long that 

24           we've continued to kick the can down the road 


                                                                   395

 1           by tackling this difficult issue, and I'm 

 2           hopeful that the new mayoral administration 

 3           will finally undertake this effort and fix 

 4           our property tax system.

 5                  You mentioned that you think we should 

 6           reject the mayor's request for additional 

 7           borrowing authority.  He and his 

 8           administration testified earlier that the 

 9           reason they're asking for the borrowing 

10           authority was to be able to complete existing 

11           projects, not take on new projects.  And the 

12           argument they claimed was that because of 

13           decreasing real estate values, particularly 

14           in Manhattan, they've reached their limit on 

15           their borrowing capacity and this is just to 

16           complete new projects.

17                  Do you want to comment on that?

18                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Absolutely.

19                  So they haven't reached that limit.  

20           Their numbers project that they might reach 

21           that limit in 2025, three years from now.  We 

22           don't have any problem for three years 

23           meeting the city's capital needs.  Our debt  

24           capacity is plenty for that.


                                                                   396

 1                  And so I just think it's really 

 2           premature.  First, property tax values have 

 3           stabilized much more than we expected.  Even 

 4           in Midtown, there was a 20 percent initial 

 5           drop, but they're back up to half of that, so 

 6           we're at 90 percent of pre-pandemic values 

 7           just on Class C property -- on Class 3 

 8           properties.

 9                  We're getting a good shot at a lot of 

10           federal infrastructure dollars.  So let's see 

11           what we can spend from federal infrastructure 

12           dollars that we don't have to pay the debt 

13           service on.  And then I also would like to 

14           really achieve some procurement reform and 

15           see if we can't improve the way we're 

16           spending on capital projects, something I 

17           really believe the mayor and I know Lorraine 

18           Grillo and I really share.  

19                  So I just think it's premature.  If a 

20           year or two from now -- despite another year 

21           watching property values stabilize, seeing 

22           what we get from the infrastructure 

23           funding -- there still is a need, I'll 

24           reconsider my position.  But I think to ask 


                                                                   397

 1           for $19 million, which more than doubles the 

 2           TFA excess debt capacity, is premature at 

 3           this time.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Great, thank 

 5           you.

 6                  You also mentioned that you would be 

 7           proposing proposals to tighten up the rainy 

 8           day fund.  I know Comptroller DiNapoli 

 9           recently issued a report with similar 

10           recommendations, and we're looking at that 

11           here up at the state level.  Do you want to 

12           expand on what some of your recommendations 

13           would be?

14                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  You know, 

15           we're just getting settled in here still a 

16           little.  But I thought Tom's recommendations 

17           were good ones.  You know, broadly, the goal 

18           of getting to roughly 15 percent -- you know, 

19           somewhere between 12 and 18, but roughly 

20           15 percent of revenues as our cushion is the 

21           idea.  So we want deposits that get us on a 

22           path to get there, and then some rules for 

23           what really is a crisis or an emergency.  

24                  And look, you don't always know.  At 


                                                                   398

 1           the beginning of the pandemic, it sure looked 

 2           like that would be a fiscal emergency, and it 

 3           would have been a reasonable time to 

 4           withdraw, then the federal government steps 

 5           in with significant stimulus.  So -- but we 

 6           need some rules and guidelines both for 

 7           deposits and for withdrawals, and I would 

 8           welcome that at either the state or the city 

 9           level.

10                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  I agree.  

11           And, you know, we'll talk, because I'm going 

12           to be proposing something.

13                  And the whole point of encouraging an 

14           administration to invest in the rainy day 

15           fund is you don't want them to have the 

16           concern that the next administration is just 

17           going to pull all the money out and spend it 

18           unwisely.  So as I said, we'll talk, and 

19           hopefully we can tighten up that rainy day 

20           fund a bit.

21                  Thank you for your testimony.  I 

22           appreciate your time.

23                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Thank you.

24                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Okay, hi.  Thank 


                                                                   399

 1           you.  All right, we're going to now go to 

 2           Senator Sepúlveda, the chair of the 

 3           Cities-New York City Committee.

 4                  SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:  Hi.  Thank you, 

 5           Brad, for taking my questions and for 

 6           appearing today.

 7                  Assemblyman Braunstein had asked some 

 8           of the questions that I actually was to ask, 

 9           but I have a few questions of my own.  

10                  You know that -- I don't know if you 

11           know, but I represent one of the poorest 

12           communities in the entire State of New York.  

13           The 32nd District has a lot of problems with 

14           education, unemployment, and so forth.  You 

15           know -- I hope you know that generational 

16           wealth and wealth in Black and brown 

17           communities is something that's extremely 

18           important to me as well.  You have a pretty 

19           massive pension fund that you manage, over 

20           $240 billion.  I have always felt a sense of 

21           disappointment with your predecessors because 

22           when you look at the amount of money that the 

23           city has invested using fund managers, 

24           investment firms, companies that are 


                                                                   400

 1           primarily Black and brown, the numbers have 

 2           been abysmal.  I don't think your predecessor 

 3           passed more than 4 percent, and some of the 

 4           firms that were used were from California and 

 5           not from New York State or New York City.  

 6                  Can you assure me -- I know that you 

 7           just started, but can you assure me or tell 

 8           me what steps you're going to take to really 

 9           remediate a problem that is little known in 

10           New York City, and that's the lack of 

11           investment or use of investments in Black and 

12           brown communities and firms in the 

13           comptroller's office.

14                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Yeah.  Thank 

15           you for that important question, Senator.  

16           And yes, you know, I think of this as part of 

17           the broader MWBE shortcoming of the city in 

18           general.  There was a report not long ago 

19           that fewer than 4 percent of the city's 

20           contracts as a whole -- construction, goods, 

21           supplies, services -- go to women and 

22           minority-owned businesses, and some of the 

23           most valuable of those contracts are the 

24           asset-management contracts that come out of 


                                                                   401

 1           the -- not just the comptroller's office, the 

 2           decisions belong to the trustees of the five 

 3           funds, but we guide and lean on them.  

 4                  And it is absolutely incumbent on us, 

 5           just as we look at the systemic risk of 

 6           climate change -- I mentioned that I'm proud 

 7           that the city's taking the steps -- the 

 8           pension funds are taking the steps to divest 

 9           from fossil fuels because they represent a 

10           systemic risk.  So too inequality represents 

11           a systemic risk to the thriving of our city 

12           and the flourishing of our funds, and that 

13           absolutely means that we need to improve the 

14           reflection of our asset managers of 

15           New Yorkers.

16                  So yes, I really agree with this.  

17           I've met with a lot of people about it so 

18           far.  You may know we actually have a search 

19           just about to get underway for our chief 

20           investment officer.  The prior chief 

21           investment officer left to pursue new 

22           opportunities, so while we have an acting 

23           CIO, we've got a search underway.  And we 

24           have a search advisory committee that 


                                                                   402

 1           includes a few people, including Roy Swan, 

 2           who leads Mission Investments at the 

 3           Ford Foundation, who's really been a leader 

 4           of diversifying asset managers. 

 5                  So this is high on my priority list.  

 6           What I can commit to you is, you know, I care 

 7           deeply about it, I'm learning how we do it 

 8           better, and next year when you ask me I'm 

 9           going to have a story to tell about the steps 

10           we've taken.

11                  SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:  Do you have a -- I 

12           know, you know, you can't predict exactly 

13           what, but do you have a number that you want 

14           to reach that I believe -- or that you 

15           believe will be reflective of the City and 

16           the State of New York Black and brown 

17           communities?  The numbers are even worse 

18           amongst the Latino community.  I don't know 

19           of any major firm that comes from a Latino 

20           background that had --

21                  (Overtalk.)

22                  SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:  -- that's very 

23           important.  

24                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  I did meet a 


                                                                   403

 1           couple.  I actually went recently to a thing 

 2           called the Billion Dollar Managers Club, 

 3           which is Black and brown asset managers with 

 4           at least a billion dollars under management.  

 5           You're right, it's overwhelmingly 

 6           African-American, but there were a couple of 

 7           Latino fund managers there who have at least 

 8           a billion dollars under management.  But I 

 9           think maybe just two or three out of about 

10           25.

11                  So let me get back to you with a 

12           target.  We actually have brought in a new 

13           chief ESG officer to look at some of these 

14           questions broadly, and he is doing some 

15           planning.  This also -- these things are 

16           decisions that are made by the trustees of 

17           the fund; the comptroller is just one trustee 

18           on those boards.  So you can propose, but 

19           unless you have worked closely with trustees, 

20           you can't build a majority of those boards to 

21           make the decisions.  The boards make every 

22           single asset manager decision.  So I think 

23           it's important to build those targets and 

24           goals within the context of our fiduciary 


                                                                   404

 1           duty to maximize returns overall, and 

 2           together with our trustees.  But it is 

 3           important that we do so.  So --

 4                  SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:  Do you have a 

 5           number, a goal that you have set, after 

 6           looking at all the information -- that 

 7           obviously I've looked at as well, right?  

 8           You're much more knowledgeable about this as 

 9           I am.  But do you have a number?  Because 

10           many times I've spoken with other leaders, 

11           other comptrollers, about this number, and 

12           they tell me "This is my goal," this is -- I 

13           don't see concretized numbers.  Is there 

14           something that you can give us for hope?

15                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  It's a good 

16           question.  I honestly don't have such a goal 

17           today.  But I think your question is a good 

18           one and I want to have a thoughtful answer, a 

19           real goal, and make sure it's consistent with 

20           the fiduciary duty we have to the funds.  So, 

21           you know, I think that's a question I will 

22           take and come back to you with an answer.

23                  SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:  Along a similar 

24           vein, obviously the city -- as the 


                                                                   405

 1           comptroller you can invest in many projects 

 2           and so forth throughout the City of New York.  

 3           The Bronx, poor Black and brown communities, 

 4           are areas where the city can, through your 

 5           office primarily, with whatever limitations 

 6           you have, you can invest in projects here 

 7           that are going to bring more jobs, that are 

 8           going to bring better housing you get through 

 9           firms and so forth, but that are going to 

10           change the trajectory of what we have right 

11           now in these poor communities.

12                  What plan do you have, with the vast 

13           amount of money that you primarily control, 

14           to bring some of that money into our 

15           communities?

16                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Yeah.  So the 

17           New York City pension funds have a 2 percent 

18           target for economically targeted investments, 

19           and yes, out of $275 billion, that's over 

20           $5 billion that can be invested for the 

21           benefit of communities within the region.  We 

22           are nowhere close to that right now.  And so 

23           there's a couple of ways I'm looking to 

24           increase that.


                                                                   406

 1                  One, on the small business side, I 

 2           actually was just talking with Comptroller 

 3           DiNapoli, who has established some good new 

 4           small-business investment vehicles, including 

 5           for MWBEs, and I want to see whether there's 

 6           a possibility for the city's pension funds to 

 7           co-invest alongside his.

 8                  And then one place in the Bronx is 

 9           really I think the place that kind of 

10           inspires it, in my mind.  During the campaign 

11           I laid out a proposal for a renewed 

12           multi-family affordable cooperative 

13           homeownership program.  We so often say it is 

14           sort of a 21st-century Mitchell-Lama, but we 

15           just have nothing like it.  Instead, the vast 

16           majority of our housing subsidies go to 

17           for-profit private developers for rental 

18           housing.  

19                  And we can argue about what is or 

20           isn't affordable, but a much greater 

21           percentage of our housing investments used to 

22           go into cooperative homeownership.  And you 

23           can see it in the Bronx, in Parkchester, at 

24           Co-op City.  It makes no sense to me that 


                                                                   407

 1           that is not a central element of New York 

 2           City's affordable housing program, and I'm 

 3           going to be advocating for it.  I laid out a 

 4           model in the campaign, but we're going to be 

 5           doing some more work.  It's part of what I 

 6           think we could do if we get rid of 421-a.  

 7                  One of the things that we could focus 

 8           on instead of a program -- you know, the new 

 9           option of 421-a, that 130 percent option -- 

10           75 percent of New York families can't afford 

11           the condos created by it.  So that's not an 

12           affordable program.  That wouldn't help most 

13           families in the Bronx.  But if we can reboot 

14           a multi-family option like Mitchell-Lama, but 

15           updated for today with some opportunities for 

16           wealth-building while preserving permanent 

17           affordability, I think it will just make all 

18           the difference in the world.  I mean, think 

19           about talking to a community about the idea 

20           of a rezoning when they think, instead of the 

21           idea that the density is going into the 

22           pockets of private developers, that it would 

23           be creating intergenerational wealth for 

24           their neighbors and themselves.  


                                                                   408

 1                  So that's one place where I think -- 

 2           that will take some subsidy dollars.  It 

 3           can't all be done with pension investments.  

 4           But I really think there's a big opportunity 

 5           to do something significant for the future.

 6                  SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:  Well, Brad, I'm 

 7           extremely hopeful that we're going to have a 

 8           different result with you.  With the -- I 

 9           think it's very few common individuals that 

10           are not in government -- they don't really 

11           know the incredible impact that your office 

12           can have on economic development in all 

13           communities, but especially in poor Black and 

14           brown communities.  

15                  And so I'm really laser-focused on 

16           this.  I'll be very attentive, as the chair 

17           of Cities, I'll be very attentive to your 

18           numbers.  And hopefully -- I will do 

19           everything possible to make sure that these 

20           numbers increase and that the level of 

21           investment into poor communities from your 

22           office is commensurate with the vast 

23           portfolio that you control, and I hope I'm 

24           not disappointed.  But again, I will work 


                                                                   409

 1           with you in any way I can to make sure that 

 2           this becomes a reality.  

 3                  Thank you.

 4                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Thank you.

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

 6                  Back to the Assembly.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Sure.  We go to 

 8           Assemblyman Mamdani.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  Thank you so 

10           much, Chair Weinstein.

11                  Thank you so much, Comptroller Lander, 

12           for joining us today.

13                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Nice to see 

14           you, Zohran.

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  It's lovely to 

16           see you, and I very much appreciated your 

17           testimony.  It was very refreshing and hard 

18           to come to terms with agreeing with so much 

19           of a testimony.  But it was a nice feeling.

20                  I wanted to ask you a couple of 

21           questions following up on some of the things 

22           you said, specifically around good-cause 

23           eviction.  Could you tell us a little bit 

24           more about the Green Book tenant organizing 


                                                                   410

 1           campaign that you have been active with since 

 2           your time as a councilmember?  And if you 

 3           could speak to what the passage of good-cause 

 4           eviction -- what it would mean for the 

 5           residents of those buildings and how it would 

 6           impact them.

 7                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Yeah, thank 

 8           you for this question, which I think is 

 9           really important.  Because historically what 

10           I had in my mind as the family who needs 

11           good-cause eviction is a family in like a 

12           three-unit building of East New York.  

13           There's a rezoning, they're in a small 

14           building, it's not covered by rent 

15           regulation, they're very low income, 

16           speculation raises rents, and they have no 

17           protections. 

18                  And yes, that family needs good-cause 

19           eviction.  But I didn't think about it as 

20           something that families in my neighborhood 

21           would need.  But Greenbrook Partners is a 

22           real estate company fueled by a couple of 

23           hundred million dollars of private equity 

24           investments that bought up over a hundred 


                                                                   411

 1           buildings, multifamily buildings, in 

 2           Brooklyn, all throughout Brooklyn, from 

 3           Park Slope to Bushwick.  And then basically 

 4           the day they buy the building, they blanket 

 5           it with eviction notices for folks both who 

 6           are rent-stabilized and then of course those 

 7           who are not rent-stabilized.  These are 

 8           families paying like $3,000 a month -- a 

 9           couple of roommates -- but they think they 

10           could get four or five.  

11                  And that's their motto, is mass 

12           evictions, you know, papering over a few 

13           repairs, and then jacking up the rents 

14           because folks don't have good-cause 

15           protections.  So that is hundreds of families 

16           that have already been evicted, middle class 

17           and working class.  And good cause would shut 

18           down this predatory practice because you just 

19           would not be able to evict people who are 

20           paying their rent and complying with their 

21           leases, with no cause.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  Thank you so 

23           much.  And just to follow up on the same 

24           issue of housing, earlier you were speaking 


                                                                   412

 1           about the 421-a program that we have, and 

 2           your recommendation to let it expire.

 3                  I also wanted to just direct us a 

 4           little bit towards the Governor's proposal of 

 5           how to replace 421-a.  You've -- you know, 

 6           you've called the previous one a boondoggle.  

 7           How would you -- would you say that this 

 8           current proposal falls short?  And if so, 

 9           how?

10                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Yeah.  Yes.  

11           I mean, this proposal is a very modest 

12           change.  First, the majority of units being 

13           subsidized are in this 130 percent AMI 

14           program, and that wouldn't change.  It would 

15           shift from a rental to a condo.  But that 

16           means in most of the outer boroughs, a family 

17           at 130 percent of AMI is making about 

18           $120,000 a year.  That's the top 25 percent 

19           of New Yorkers.  So 75 percent of New York 

20           households can't afford the majority of 

21           affordable units in this program.  That's -- 

22           you know, that's just not a real affordable 

23           housing program.

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  Thank you so 


                                                                   413

 1           much.  Appreciate you and appreciate the work 

 2           you're doing.

 3                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Thank you.

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  To the Senate.

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

 6                  We next have Senator Leroy Comrie.

 7                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Hello.  Good 

 8           afternoon.  

 9                  Comptroller Lander, how are you, sir?

10                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Good 

11           afternoon, Senator.  So good to see you.  I 

12           was just out in Jamaica for Natasha Williams' 

13           inauguration at York College.  It was 

14           really --

15                  SENATOR COMRIE:  I was on the other 

16           side of the huge room, so I didn't get a 

17           chance to see you before you left.  I was 

18           there.  It was a great evening.

19                  I'm glad to see you in this role.  I'm 

20           interested in the hearing which you plan on 

21           doing with a replacement of 421-a, since you 

22           feel that the program is not working.  If you 

23           want to expound on that a bit.  

24                  And then I know that you are also 


                                                                   414

 1           aware of the failures of government overall 

 2           since -- with Ida and the response to 

 3           communities.  And I know that you're going to 

 4           need a little bit more time on that, but if 

 5           you could give us some initial thoughts about 

 6           that as well, I'd appreciate it.

 7                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Great.  Thank 

 8           you so much.  

 9                  So first what I recommend on 421-a is 

10           rolling it into a serious effort at 

11           comprehensive property tax reform.  I know 

12           these things have been separated, but they 

13           really are one problem.  So if we let 421-a 

14           expire -- you know, last time when it did, 

15           three years' worth of properties filed in the 

16           months prior to the expiration.  So we have a 

17           little time.  

18                  Let it expire.  Set a deadline of the 

19           end this calendar year for a comprehensive 

20           property tax reform that includes addressing 

21           the issue that is harming homeowners in your 

22           neighborhood, the disparity between the tax 

23           rates in my neighborhood -- like I am 

24           undertaxed relative to you and your 


                                                                   415

 1           neighbors, and that's not right.  So that's 

 2           part one, parity amongst homeowners.  

 3                  But part two is parity between rental 

 4           and condo development going forward.  Right 

 5           now if you've got a piece of ground and 

 6           you're going to build on it, if you build a 

 7           condo building you're taxed at half the rate 

 8           as if it's a rental building.  So let's fix 

 9           that underlying problem through property tax 

10           reform and then we don't need 421-a to do 

11           that and we can use our scarce affordable 

12           housing resources targeted to affordability.  

13                  I'm glad to follow up with folks in a 

14           lot more detail, but tying these two together 

15           really gives us the ability to do both of 

16           them.

17                  And then on South -- 

18                  SENATOR COMRIE:  As you may know, I 

19           was -- did sign a lawsuit for property tax 

20           reform.  As you know, all of us Queens people 

21           are with that and I'm willing to do whatever 

22           you need us to do to make that happen so that 

23           we can get to that.  Your commitment and the 

24           mayor's commitment is refreshing to --


                                                                   416

 1                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Wonderful.  

 2           I'll just add here like even if -- I think 

 3           there will be people who say they're for 

 4           property tax reform but urge you to pass just 

 5           warmed-over 421-a reform.  But I just really 

 6           would push them.  I think if that happens and 

 7           421-a, modest 421-a reform is in the budget, 

 8           we will miss the opportunity to do real 

 9           comprehensive property tax reform.  And I 

10           think we should try to rise to it this year.

11                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Unfortunately, we've 

12           only got 20 seconds left --

13                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  So first the 

14           federal infrastructure bill is a big 

15           opportunity.  It's largely for roads, but the 

16           underside of the roads are the sewers.  So we 

17           need to use a lot of that money on sewer 

18           repair work and replacement.  

19                  And then I've got a lot of thoughts on 

20           how we can actually support homeowners who 

21           are affected.  The current disastrous system 

22           doesn't help them.  And I've got some 

23           thoughts I'm actually planning to talk to 

24           Adrienne about that I think we can -- you 


                                                                   417

 1           know, that I'm glad to follow up with you on.

 2                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Count on me to work 

 3           with you also.  Thank you.  Thank you, 

 4           Comptroller.  

 5                  Thank you, Madam Chairs.

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go to 

 8           Assemblywoman Kelles.

 9                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  So wonderful to 

10           see you.  Wonderful.  Wonderful.  

11                  So two quick questions for you -- 

12           well, quickish.  The first one, you mentioned 

13           earlier about two of the three pension plans 

14           that you have fully divested, I think is what 

15           you said, at this point.  I am currently 

16           carrying a bill with Senator Brisport that 

17           would require divestment of the New York 

18           State Teachers' Retirement System.  And the 

19           central concern that we're hearing is the 

20           fiduciary responsibility preventing 

21           divestment.  

22                  And so I just wanted to hear from you 

23           about that because of course what -- the 

24           research I'm reading, the fiduciary 


                                                                   418

 1           responsibility would imply that the most 

 2           responsible thing would be to divest at this 

 3           point.  

 4                  So I'm curious how long it took, what 

 5           the fiscal impact has been.  If you could 

 6           just describe it in a little bit more detail.

 7                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Absolutely.  

 8           And it is of course important to act 

 9           consistent with fiduciary duty in respect to 

10           the pension funds.  And I give big credit to 

11           the prior trustees, including Comptroller 

12           Stringer, on this.  It took two or three 

13           years.  They worked with consultants, they 

14           established a real plan.  

15                  You can actually see on our website -- 

16           I'll get you the link -- you know, the 

17           formula they came up with and all of the 

18           companies with significant fossil fuel 

19           reserves in the ground that were divested.

20                  You know, so so far NYCERS and the 

21           Board of Education Fund has divested.  The 

22           New York City Teachers' Retirement System 

23           actually is currently working with BlackRock 

24           to achieve divestment consistent with 


                                                                   419

 1           fiduciary duty.  So it can be done in a way 

 2           that is consistent with guaranteeing 

 3           retirement security.  

 4                  You know, your job is to look at where 

 5           risks are, both in individual companies but 

 6           also systemic risk.  And I just don't think 

 7           that -- I think it's clear that coal 

 8           especially, you know, but fossil fuels in 

 9           general are a retiring asset and starting to 

10           build a more renewable portfolio is 

11           important.

12                  The next step for us is that we've 

13           committed to $5 billion of investments over 

14           the next few years in a just transition to 

15           renewable energy sources and sustainable 

16           technologies.  We just made our first 

17           investment in such a fund, a $50 million 

18           investment, and we're looking forward to 

19           growing that over time.

20                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  That's 

21           wonderful.

22                  And then one other question to add to 

23           previous questions about good cause.  We talk 

24           a lot about the impact on tenants, but 


                                                                   420

 1           New Jersey, for example, has had this since 

 2           1974 and I've heard nothing but how it has 

 3           actually also created stability for 

 4           landlords.  And there's a lot of 

 5           misinformation on its impact on landlords, so 

 6           I'd love to hear a little bit about your view 

 7           on the potential benefits to landlords.

 8                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Yeah.  Good 

 9           cause in many ways is like just a code of 

10           conduct between landlords and tenants.  

11           Right?  What it really does is reinforce the 

12           lease and say, you know, if you're meeting 

13           your obligations, you can stay in your home.  

14           And that does reflect obligations on both 

15           sides.  Landlords can still evict tenants who 

16           don't pay their rent or don't comply with 

17           their lease.  But it's a strong incentive for 

18           tenants to comply with their lease, knowing 

19           they'll be able to stay in their homes if and 

20           as they do.

21                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Wonderful.  

22           Thank you so much.  Good to see you again.

23                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Wonderful to 

24           see you, Assemblymember.


                                                                   421

 1                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

 2                  To the Senate.  

 3                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

 4                  Next we have Senator Robert Jackson.

 5                  SENATOR JACKSON:  Thank you.

 6                  So Brad -- congratulations, Brad.  So 

 7           happy that you are the city comptroller.  And 

 8           I've listened to your testimony and I 

 9           appreciate your advocacy on behalf of the 

10           people of New York City, and understanding 

11           that we have 8.8 million people that live in 

12           New York City.  And you talked about NYCHA, 

13           you talked about property tax, you talked 

14           about all of the things that we feel you 

15           should talk about.  But I just have one or 

16           two questions.

17                  And you may remember, going back, a 

18           2019 report put out by Class Size Matters 

19           that found that the Department of Education 

20           overspends on rental subsidies while denying 

21           collocated public schools legally required 

22           matching funds for facility upgrades.  And 

23           they further found that in fiscal year 2020, 

24           the DOE paid $11.6 million in rental 


                                                                   422

 1           subsidies to eight charter schools whose 

 2           charter management organization or affiliated 

 3           organization owned their own spaces.  In some 

 4           cases the base rents of these charter schools 

 5           also increased by as much as 400 percent in 

 6           one year.

 7                  So the ask is this.  Will you 

 8           undertake an audit of the New York State 

 9           Department of Education's charter school 

10           rental subsidies?

11                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Thank you for 

12           sharing that, Senator.  I don't know if you 

13           heard, but I gave you a nice shout out in my 

14           testimony, so --

15                  (Inaudible overtalk.)

16                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  I'd love to 

17           learn more.  I'm still learning a little bit 

18           about how our audits work, and I think 

19           there's a couple of Department of Education 

20           audits already underway.  So I want to just 

21           be a little cautious before I like commit on 

22           a timeclock for new ones.  But I would love 

23           to talk to you and to Class Size Matters and 

24           see how we can take a look at this and aim to 


                                                                   423

 1           pursue it in the future.

 2                  SENATOR JACKSON:  Well, I appreciate 

 3           that very, very much.  

 4                  But also with NYCHA, as you know, 

 5           people are complaining, complaining, 

 6           especially in the wintertime, with no heat 

 7           and hot water.  And obviously we've 

 8           communicated with the mayor's office and what 

 9           have you.  But anything and everything that 

10           you can do to help the people that are living 

11           without heat and hot water.  

12                  I don't know if you've ever 

13           experienced that.  I remember when I was in 

14           college and we didn't have heat and hot water 

15           and we were sleeping with our coats and hats 

16           and boots and everything on just to stay 

17           warm.  It's not fun at all.

18                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  It happens 

19           that I had one night without heat this 

20           winter, but I'm in a position to be able to 

21           call the plumber.  And the plumber came the 

22           next day and fixed my boiler, and I didn't 

23           have to spend a second night without heat.  

24                  And, you know, the first night is 


                                                                   424

 1           cold, but you ought to have the ability to 

 2           have someone come and fix your plumbing.  And 

 3           so absolutely.  I mean, what NYCHA 

 4           residents are living in is unacceptable.

 5                  You know, the challenge, of course, is 

 6           that we've let the deterioration take so long 

 7           that you can't just call the plumber and 

 8           he'll fix one quick thing -- so many of 

 9           buildings really need total rehabs.  

10                  I was proud, in the Gowanus rezoning, 

11           to win some of the first commitments, 

12           $200 million of city tax levy, for really 

13           basically like a full substantial renovation 

14           of those buildings.  And that's what we have 

15           to find a way to do with some mix of federal, 

16           state, city dollars.  And this is why I do 

17           think we need to look at the preservation 

18           trust, which I understand residents have a 

19           lot of anxieties about.  So I want to work 

20           with people to figure out how we make sure 

21           they're involved in oversight.  But I do 

22           think that's one of the ways we can bring a 

23           substantial infusion of dollars in to really 

24           fix some of those --


                                                                   425

 1                  SENATOR JACKSON:  Well, thank you.  My 

 2           time is up, and we'll follow up with your 

 3           office.

 4                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Wonderful.  

 5           Thank you, Senator.

 6                  SENATOR JACKSON:  Thank you.  

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  There are no 

 8           other Assemblymembers, Senator Krueger, so 

 9           you can continue.

10                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

11           much.  

12                  Senator Savino, did you have your same 

13           question for the comptroller?  

14                  SENATOR SAVINO:  No, I have a 

15           different one.

16                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Okay, go for it.

17                  SENATOR SAVINO:  It's actually a 

18           different issue.

19                  Good to see you, Comptroller Lander.

20                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Nice to see 

21           you, Senator.  And you're not quite going to 

22           be my Senator, but much closer than you are 

23           currently.  So friends and neighbors.

24                  SENATOR SAVINO:  We can't all be lucky 


                                                                   426

 1           enough to be represented by Senator Savino, 

 2           but close enough.

 3                  I wanted to talk to you about your new 

 4           role as the chief officer of the pension 

 5           system.  Unlike the state, where the 

 6           comptroller is the sole trustee, you are one 

 7           of many with our five systems.  And I think 

 8           what gets lost oftentimes is that the most 

 9           important responsibility of the pension funds 

10           is to their beneficiaries.  And so the 

11           prudent investment standard is critically 

12           important that we get the best return on our 

13           investment.

14                  And I know that you are looking for us 

15           to do something that we haven't done since my 

16           first year when I got here elected to the 

17           Senate, and that is something called 

18           "expanding the basket."  So maybe you want to 

19           talk to us a little bit about what "expanding 

20           the basket" means and why it's important and 

21           why we should do it now.

22                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Thank you so 

23           much for this question.  It really is one of 

24           the most important things in my testimony 


                                                                   427

 1           because exactly as you say, like the first 

 2           duty is to make sure we're securing 

 3           retirement for the 750,000 public-sector 

 4           workers and retirees.  And this would cover 

 5           the state pension fund and NYSTRS as well.

 6                  So, you know, it used to be that your 

 7           portfolio just consisted of stocks and bonds, 

 8           and that was it.  But in recent years much 

 9           more of the market is what's called 

10           private-market investments -- real estate, 

11           infrastructure, private equity, alternative 

12           credit.  And that has grown to be in some 

13           cases like the classic portfolio -- they 

14           actually call this the Yale model.  Yale now 

15           has closer to 60 percent of their investments 

16           in private markets; only about 40 percent in 

17           traditional public equities in, you know, 

18           stocks and bonds.  But the New York State law 

19           requires that our funds have 75 percent of 

20           our investments in those traditional 

21           investments in stocks and bonds, essentially, 

22           and indexes and fixed incomes, and only 

23           allows 25 percent for all private-market 

24           investments.


                                                                   428

 1                  So we would like to increase that, you 

 2           know, we propose by 10 percent to go up to be 

 3           able to do 65 percent in those public 

 4           equities and fixed incomes, and 35 percent in 

 5           these private-market investments.

 6                  Yeah, so that's basically the 

 7           proposal.  There's obviously some more 

 8           details to it.  It's very prudent.  All of 

 9           these are risk-adjusted.  You go through 

10           thorough risk screenings of all -- both the 

11           public and private-market investments.  If 

12           you talk to almost any institutional investor 

13           or pension fund manager, they will say 75/25 

14           is just too restrictive to achieve the 

15           maximum risk-adjusted returns.

16                  SENATOR SAVINO:  Well, I certainly 

17           look forward to working with you on that.  

18           And, you know, as a person who is now 

19           actually pension-eligible, 32 years in the 

20           system, I get more -- increasingly more 

21           concerned about the safety and sanctity of 

22           the New York State pension system.  

23                  Look forward to working with you on 

24           it.  Thank you, Brad.


                                                                   429

 1                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Thank you.  

 2           That's wonderful.

 3                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 4                  You don't have anyone else, 

 5           Assemblywoman?

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  No.  Did you 

 7           want to take some time, Senator Krueger?

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

 9           much, I do.

10                  Hello, Comptroller Lander.  Known you 

11           in many hats over the years.  Nice to see you 

12           up here with us.

13                  So you actually already answered quite 

14           a few of my questions, so I just want to 

15           reinforce that you really don't think the 

16           City of New York needs such an enormous 

17           growth in their ability to expand their debt 

18           category at this point; you think that there 

19           will be plenty of time if they need it.  Is 

20           that right?

21                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  That's right.

22                  You know, I'm a big believer in 

23           infrastructure investment, so I want us to 

24           have the resources we need for the sewers in 


                                                                   430

 1           Leroy's district, for all the investments in 

 2           our streets and our parks and our libraries.  

 3           But you want to be prudent, you don't want 

 4           to, you know, take on more debt capacity than 

 5           you need.  I came in -- Francesco Brindisi's 

 6           here, he's our executive deputy, and I sat 

 7           with him and our deputy comptroller for 

 8           public finance, and they went over the 

 9           numbers with me.  They showed me that we're 

10           not even projected to hit that debt limit for 

11           three years, and that's with pretty 

12           conservative assumptions about property value 

13           recovery.  We're actually ahead of where we 

14           expected to be.  There's just no need to act 

15           now, you know, for a problem that doesn't 

16           even -- might not even come, at worst, for 

17           three years.

18                  So I would say, you know, let's hit 

19           pause and see what we get from the 

20           infrastructure bill, let's watch what happens 

21           with property values, and we can make a 

22           decision a year from now about whether any 

23           additional debt capacity is needed.

24                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  And you and I 


                                                                   431

 1           have talked about this many times, so you and 

 2           I both know that we agree that the 421-a 

 3           program has been a failure and the Governor's 

 4           new proposal doesn't change it nearly enough.  

 5           And I also, as you raised, am very concerned 

 6           about it going back into being allowed to be 

 7           used for condos and co-ops and that none of 

 8           this is going to expand affordability.

 9                  I asked the mayor earlier whether he 

10           didn't think allowing this act to sunset and 

11           J-51 as well -- which is costing I think 

12           another 400 million a year on top of 

13           1.7 billion for 421-a -- and giving that 

14           authority back to the City of New York where 

15           the mayor and the comptroller and the 

16           City Council could make determinations of how 

17           to use your property tax money for the 

18           maximum advantage for affordability in a 

19           variety of different ways, including, as you 

20           pointed out, potentially in the mix for 

21           fixing the really incredibly unfair property 

22           tax system, in the mix of funds that could be 

23           used on a almost site-by-site determination 

24           of whether you were going to get the best 


                                                                   432

 1           bang for your buck for this specific proposal 

 2           in this specific neighborhood.

 3                  And he said he would like to talk to 

 4           me about it further, so I take that as a good 

 5           sign.  But do you also think that letting the 

 6           City of New York control more of its housing 

 7           destiny with that model makes more sense for 

 8           you?

 9                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  I am 

10           certainly a big fan of New York City having 

11           control over its own destiny.  

12                  I guess the one thing I definitely 

13           would say here, though, is I do think the 

14           possibility -- you know, as I've said a 

15           couple of times, I really think we should try 

16           to link the 421-a question with the property 

17           tax question.  So I wouldn't want to just go 

18           back to a situation where the council and the 

19           mayor could decide about 421-a but couldn't 

20           fix what's broken with our property tax 

21           system, which currently, you know, is 

22           essentially framed by state law.

23                  So I guess my first druthers would be 

24           sure, hand New York City the ability to do 


                                                                   433

 1           all of that, to fix our property tax system 

 2           and then reset on 421-a and affordability.  

 3           But my second choice would be let's try to do 

 4           all of that in Albany.  You know, I do think 

 5           there's the possibility of having a governor 

 6           and a mayor that could work together on this, 

 7           which is refreshing.  That's not something 

 8           that we are familiar with.

 9                  And so, you know -- and I think it's 

10           hard -- property tax reform is hard to do.  

11           Getting the politics right is very difficult.  

12           There are winners and losers, and you have to 

13           think about how to do it.  So no one really 

14           wants to.  I mean, we all say it should 

15           happen because we don't like the inequities  

16           in the system.  But this is a real moment 

17           that we could do it.  So I want us to seize 

18           that moment.  And I'd be glad to support it 

19           at either the city level or the state level.  

20                  And we're going to put out some 

21           more -- I was actually talking with 

22           Francesco -- you mentioned this question of 

23           what happens if it expires.  You know, he 

24           just told me this morning that, you know, on 


                                                                   434

 1           average in New York City we have about 

 2           20,000 housing starts a year but, in the year 

 3           that 421-a expired last, there were 60,000 

 4           housing starts because developers rushed to 

 5           beat the deadline.  

 6                  And there's every reason to believe 

 7           they'll do that again this spring, giving us 

 8           a little time.  There's no need to rush to a 

 9           bad renewal.  It can expire, people will get 

10           in before the deadline.  And then we'll need 

11           a deadline; you can't let it go on forever.  

12           But I think the end of the year is 

13           reasonable.

14                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  And thank you for 

15           reminding me of that part.  Because I was 

16           around last time it expired, and that's 

17           exactly correct.  So there is more 

18           flexibility and more time.

19                  And given both of our concerns about 

20           climate change and sustainability and where 

21           the city needs to go in its future -- and I 

22           think that you and I both support the city's 

23           change in law to not allow new gas 

24           infrastructure I think starting in '24 -- do 


                                                                   435

 1           you think any kind of future property tax 

 2           credits or incentives in the tax system in 

 3           New York City should have a sort of climate 

 4           change tie-in in some way?

 5                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Yeah, that's 

 6           a great -- it's a great point.  Obviously 

 7           some things we just want to require in the 

 8           building code, so you do that with no new gas 

 9           hookups and other kinds of standards.  

10                  But obviously, especially on existing 

11           buildings, you know, where these buildings 

12           can afford to make changes, great.  But, you 

13           know, where those are rent-stabilized 

14           buildings, then building in some incentives 

15           that make it possible.  

16                  Solar -- there's some good solar tax 

17           incentives.  We're actually going to be 

18           experimenting with a model in New York City, 

19           hopefully through this public solar concept, 

20           where the city, through an LDC, will actually 

21           come to a homeowner and say, We can do the 

22           solar on your roof and pay you a rent, 

23           essentially, rather than having to do it 

24           through tax credits.


                                                                   436

 1                  But yes, there's a lot to incentivize, 

 2           whether that's energy source heat pumps -- 

 3           you know, there's a lot of ways that we could 

 4           look at using changes in both the zoning and 

 5           the tax code to incentivize the urgent action 

 6           we need.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Great.  We 

 8           covered some of that territory in our 

 9           environmental hearing a few days ago, more in 

10           relationship with state taxes.  But I thought 

11           about it in the same context for why some of 

12           these proposals would be a win for city 

13           taxes.  And I appreciate your raising the 

14           point in your testimony that we should stop 

15           using the state tax code to give incentives 

16           to the petroleum and gas industry.  That is 

17           the opposite of what I think we all 

18           understand we ought to be doing in the 

19           21st century.  

20                  You know, I don't want to go into a 

21           whole new territory because it will take more 

22           than two and a half minutes, so I want to 

23           give back my two and a half minutes.  I want 

24           to thank you very much for your participation 


                                                                   437

 1           with us today.  I look forward to continuing 

 2           to work with you in your new capacity as the 

 3           city comptroller.  Thank you very much.

 4                  Back to you, Helene.

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you, 

 6           Senator Krueger.

 7                  So Comptroller, Brad, that is -- we 

 8           don't have other members with questions.  I 

 9           know that as we craft this budget I'm sure 

10           that both Senator Krueger and myself and 

11           others may be reaching out to you as we -- to 

12           look for some guidance and information.

13                  And with that, we'll let you go back 

14           to work.  We still have a lot to do up here.

15                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  I saw your 

16           agenda, so I know you have many more hours to 

17           go.  So props to you.  It's even more tiring 

18           on Zoom than in person, I know, so --

19                  (Laughter.)

20                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  That it is.

21                  NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:  Thank you for 

22           the time and good questions, and look forward 

23           to working with you in the future.

24                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Sure.


                                                                   438

 1                  So now we're going to have the 

 2           New York State Conference of Mayors, 

 3           Peter Baynes, executive director.

 4                  So welcome.  And you've been here 

 5           before, you know the drill, only you're there 

 6           and not here with us.  So there's 10 minutes 

 7           on the clock, please keep an eye on it.  And 

 8           your testimony has been distributed to all 

 9           the members, so feel free to not use all of 

10           the time and summarize it.  I know there will 

11           be some questions afterwards.

12                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Great, 

13           thank you for having me.  Thank you for 

14           having me once again.  And I will -- I'll 

15           summarize the key points that we made in our 

16           testimony and hopefully leave some time for 

17           questions.  

18                  The Conference of Mayors, we since 

19           1910 have represented the cities and 

20           villages, nearly 600 cities and villages 

21           across the State of New York.  And I 

22           appreciate the ability today to talk about 

23           our reaction to the Executive Budget 

24           proposal.  When it was first released by 


                                                                   439

 1           Governor Hochul, our response was that it was 

 2           a near-seismic change in the state's approach 

 3           to local government, and we meant that in a 

 4           positive way.

 5                  There are things in there that signal 

 6           that change in the state's approach to local 

 7           governments.  The Governor funded the 

 8           transportation aid adds that you in the 

 9           Legislature so generously provided and pushed 

10           for last year, so you don't have to go back 

11           to the well to get those adds put back in.  

12           The Governor has ended the sales tax 

13           intercept for the state payment of AIM 

14           funding to towns and villages, which is 

15           something we asked to be done.

16                  And her budget proposal also expands 

17           programs for the support of local economic 

18           development.  And I'll talk about all those 

19           things a little bit more.  

20                  But I will also note that we said it 

21           was a near-seismic change in the state's 

22           approach because there are two things in the 

23           Executive Budget that we are very concerned 

24           about, one being that there was a failure to 


                                                                   440

 1           increase AIM funding, which each of the 

 2           mayors has talked about today.  And we'll 

 3           talk a little bit about our proposal in that 

 4           regard.

 5                  And also there's a new state 

 6           preemption-of-local-zoning proposal that is 

 7           unprecedented in New York that we're strongly 

 8           concerned about.

 9                  So let me focus first on AIM.  You 

10           know, I think it's been made clear today that 

11           AIM is essential to local governments.  It's 

12           operational aid.  It's not capital aid.  It's 

13           the money they need to do the things that are 

14           so important -- all the things that have 

15           actually been talked about today, all the 

16           issues of the day, if you think about it:  

17           Public safety, public health, the well-being 

18           of our children, affordable housing, economic 

19           opportunity, safe drinking water.  Those 

20           things all intersect with what a mayor does 

21           in a city or village.  And their ability to 

22           address these issues is really tied to their 

23           fiscal capacity.  

24                  Unfortunately in New York we have a 


                                                                   441

 1           13-year track record now of the state not 

 2           providing an increase in operational aid to 

 3           cities, villages and towns.

 4                  To try to address that, we've advanced 

 5           a proposal to the Governor and to the 

 6           Legislature seeking a cost-of-living increase 

 7           in AIM funding based on the 13-year period in 

 8           which it has not gone up.  And that would be 

 9           a $210 million cost-of-living increase for 

10           local governments for their AIM funding.  We 

11           have nearly 400 mayors who have signed onto 

12           our letter calling for that increase.  

13                  We also support any of the new aid 

14           that's distributed that it be done according 

15           to a new formula, since AIM really doesn't 

16           have a formula.  It's just a combination of 

17           various formulas that don't actually run each 

18           year anymore.  But any new money, we think, 

19           should be allocated fairly based on the 

20           population of a municipality, the poverty, 

21           the tax-exempt property, and other factors 

22           that will address the need of a municipality.

23                  We also believe that municipalities 

24           should be able to count on some level of 


                                                                   442

 1           increase from year to year.  We're suggesting 

 2           to the Legislature that they establish some 

 3           fixed percent of the school aid increase 

 4           every year as a benchmark for the amount of 

 5           municipal aid that should go up.  For 

 6           example, school aid in the last 13 years has 

 7           gone up $6 billion.  If there was a 5 percent 

 8           benchmark of school aid going in an equal 

 9           amount equal to 5 percent of school aid 

10           increase going to municipalities, that would 

11           have been a $300 million increase in AIM 

12           funding over the last 13 years, which would 

13           have addressed the whole cost-of-living issue 

14           that we've raised.

15                  So we really feel this is the year 

16           that -- the resources are there for the 

17           state -- that AIM funding needs to be 

18           addressed and additional operational aid 

19           needs to go to local governments.  As I 

20           alluded to at the beginning, transportation 

21           funding in the Governor's budget continues 

22           the good work you did last year as it relates 

23           to CHIPS, extreme winter recovery, PAVE-NY, 

24           the new Touring Routes program.  It also 


                                                                   443

 1           doubles the BRIDGE NY funding from 100 to 

 2           $200 million and actually creates a new 

 3           program of $100 million called Pave Our 

 4           Potholes.  We support all of that, we think 

 5           it's great news.  And we also think it frees 

 6           up the Legislature this year to focus your 

 7           efforts on getting that AIM funding 

 8           increased, that that be your priority this 

 9           year.

10                  In the water/sewer infrastructure 

11           realm, more good news there, an additional 

12           500 million for the Clean Water 

13           Infrastructure Act.  But remember, not all 

14           that money goes to local governments.  And 

15           what does go to local governments, there are 

16           many local governments that don't receive it 

17           from year to year.  So there still remains a 

18           need for a program of state funding to 

19           municipalities for their water and sewer 

20           needs where every municipality would get a 

21           piece of such funding every year.

22                  Now to the thing we're most concerned 

23           about from a non-monetary point of view, and 

24           that's the Governor's proposed mandate to 


                                                                   444

 1           preempt local land use decision-making 

 2           pertaining to accessory dwelling units and 

 3           transit-oriented development.  Those 

 4           proposals, which have been talked about 

 5           today, are really unprecedented mandates into 

 6           local land use decision-making.  Many of our 

 7           mayors believe in accessory dwelling units, 

 8           transit-oriented development.  Many of them 

 9           have implemented those within their 

10           communities.  But it has to be done from the 

11           community up, not from the state down.  

12                  So we really feel that we've made this 

13           clear to the Governor's office, and I know 

14           many legislators support our contention that 

15           it can't be -- when it comes to local zoning, 

16           it can't be a mandate from the state.

17                  What we're asking the state to do 

18           instead is to provide support for local 

19           governments that want to consider doing 

20           accessory dwelling units or transit-oriented 

21           development.  The state should study the 

22           impact of adopting those policies, provide 

23           model local laws and regulations, and provide 

24           aid incentives.  That will be a more 


                                                                   445

 1           effective way of implementing that kind of 

 2           zoning in a way that's embraced by a 

 3           community rather than creating controversy.

 4                  Other things in the budget that we 

 5           want to talk about briefly:  Local economic 

 6           development we feel is equal to state 

 7           economic development, and the Governor 

 8           recognizes that in her Executive Budget.  

 9           She's brought back to life the 

10           Restore New York program, which many of you 

11           will remember, which is one of the most 

12           popular programs our members ever had the 

13           opportunity to interact with at the state 

14           level.  It provides funding for abandoned 

15           property demolition in municipalities, which 

16           is a chronic problem around the state.  And 

17           the Governor has committed to $250 million 

18           over three years and $100 million in the 

19           current year.

20                  Also the Governor has proposed a new 

21           program called New York Forward, which is 

22           sort of like the Downtown Revitalization 

23           initiative but it's geared towards smaller 

24           downtowns, which we think is really 


                                                                   446

 1           important.  

 2                  NYCOM as an organization, we support 

 3           basically everything each of the mayors said 

 4           today about bail reform.  That, you know, 

 5           public safety is the number-one job of 

 6           governments, state and local governments.  

 7           Clearly violent crime is on the rise and is 

 8           at a crisis level in some communities.  We 

 9           think that necessitates and it's logical for 

10           a government to review policies its put into 

11           place to see if it's having an impact on 

12           crime.  

13                  So whether it has to do with guns 

14           coming into the state and finding ways to 

15           stop that or reviewing the bail reform laws 

16           to see if there are ways on the public safety 

17           side of things, not on the equity side of 

18           things, to address the crime issue that we 

19           have in the state right now.  So we think it 

20           can be done intelligently.  We're not saying 

21           to reverse bail reform at all, but we think 

22           it should be given a good hard look to see if 

23           there are ways to ensure that our communities 

24           are as safe as possible.  


                                                                   447

 1                  And lastly, I'll just mention in the 

 2           local ethics realm the Governor has proposed 

 3           changing the current $75 gift limit for local 

 4           government officials to a nominal value 

 5           limit.  We think a better approach would be 

 6           to do a comprehensive reform of the 

 7           General Municipal Law Article 18 ethics 

 8           provisions.  We think you can't just change 

 9           that limit without having some structure of 

10           enforcement at the local level to determine 

11           what "nominal value" means, what exceptions 

12           should be created for that gift limit.

13                  So those are the highlights.  I'm 

14           certainly ready to talk about cyber if 

15           Senator Savino wants to talk about that as 

16           well.  And I'll leave the rest for questions 

17           and answers.

18                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  

19                  We're going to go to the chair of our 

20           Local Governments Committee, Fred Thiele.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN THIELE:  Thank you, 

22           Chair Weinstein.  

23                  And Peter, it's good to see you.

24                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  You as 


                                                                   448

 1           well.

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN THIELE:  I'd like to focus 

 3           first on your testimony that relates to AIM.  

 4           And as you know, both Senator Gaughran and I 

 5           last year made that effort to not only 

 6           reverse the sales tax intercept and restore 

 7           AIM to its original program, but we also 

 8           attempted to do an increase last year.  So 

 9           I -- we're -- you know, I can speak for 

10           myself, I think Senator Gaughran too, he's 

11           got his hand raised.  But we've heard from 

12           all the mayors and we've certainly heard from 

13           you today that, you know, it's time for an 

14           increase in AIM after more than a decade of 

15           it being frozen.

16                  I'm a little interested on the formula 

17           that you talked about a little bit and how 

18           that would work.  Could you spend just a 

19           little bit of time -- because I know that, 

20           you know, no matter how we apportion it, 

21           somebody will think it's unfair to them.  So 

22           what are the things at least from the mayors' 

23           perspective that you're recommending that we 

24           look at.


                                                                   449

 1                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Well,  

 2           first I do want to acknowledge the work of 

 3           the Senate and Assembly the last several 

 4           years of putting in their one-house budgets 

 5           proposed AIM increases.  And NYCOM really 

 6           appreciates that.  And hopefully with a 

 7           Governor who hasn't shut the door to 

 8           negotiating an AIM increase we can actually 

 9           get it done this year.

10                  In terms of our formula, I mean it's 

11           not at the point where we could generate 

12           runs.  But the key to fixing AIM and the 

13           allocation is to have new money coming into 

14           it so that we don't have winners and losers.  

15           As I said, the current formula isn't a 

16           formula at all.  It's got like 1970 

17           population data as part of it.  It has 

18           funding amounts incorporated into it that 

19           were clearly political almost member-item- 

20           type amounts.

21                  So we think there's a way to take the 

22           new money and allocate it so, you know, it 

23           addresses -- do you have a dependent school 

24           district?  That clearly has to be taken into 


                                                                   450

 1           account to determine how much is allocated.  

 2           Do you provide public safety services, police 

 3           and fire?  What's the poverty level in your 

 4           community?  And do you have a high level of 

 5           tax-exempt property?  

 6                  We think there are ways to look at all 

 7           those factors and allocate the new money -- 

 8           not the old money, the new money in a fair, 

 9           understandable way.

10                  ASSEMBLYMAN THIELE:  I think we would 

11           certainly like to work with you on that and 

12           with all the local governments, to try to 

13           come up with a fair formula that we have 

14           consensus on.  So I certainly look forward to 

15           that.

16                  I want to talk, with the rest of my 

17           time, about your testimony with regard to 

18           accessory dwelling units.  And, you know, 

19           coming from Long Island, you know, certainly 

20           this has been a big issue already, the 

21           Governor's proposal.  It was on the front 

22           page of Newsday yesterday.

23                  And as you mentioned, you know, 

24           New York prides itself as a home rule state.  


                                                                   451

 1           We have a whole article in the Constitution 

 2           talking about the home rule powers of local 

 3           government.  And this approach certainly 

 4           seems to be at odds with that.  It also seems 

 5           to be at odds with what every zoning code is 

 6           supposed to be based on, which is 

 7           comprehensive planning and a balanced 

 8           comprehensive plan that looks at all of the 

 9           elements of a community.  

10                  And this legislation not only is a 

11           mandate, but it seems to put all the weight 

12           on housing at the expense of other parts of 

13           the comprehensive plan, whether it be 

14           infrastructure or the protection of water or 

15           natural resources or things of that nature.  

16           So I -- you know, I think it's the wrong 

17           approach right from the get-go.

18                  The thing that I wanted to talk about 

19           is, you know, in my area of Long Island I 

20           would say probably 95 percent of my 

21           communities already have an accessory 

22           apartments law or they have an 

23           apartment-over-stores law.  They're trying to 

24           create affordable housing, and they've done 


                                                                   452

 1           it pursuant to a comprehensive plan.

 2                  So, you know, it's one thing to try to 

 3           develop housing to make sure that accessory 

 4           apartments are legal.  But the property 

 5           owners have to walk through the door and want 

 6           to do it also.  And that seems to be one of 

 7           the big impediments, is that, you know, 

 8           people don't want to spend the money to 

 9           legally do it on permit costs.  Or it's a 

10           substantial capital investment that they have 

11           to make.  Or they're afraid that the town tax 

12           assessor is going to walk through the door 

13           and reassess them upon the building of their 

14           accessory apartment.

15                  You know, it just seems to me that we 

16           should be looking, you know, not at mandates 

17           but at, as you said, incentives.  Not just 

18           incentives for local governments to 

19           participate, but incentives to get property 

20           owners to participate.  You know, we want 

21           people to build solar power panels on their 

22           roofs.  You know, we give them tax breaks, we 

23           give them grants.  On Long Island we want 

24           people -- because we're having a water 


                                                                   453

 1           quality problem, we want them to upgrade 

 2           their septic systems with new 

 3           nitrogen-removing septic systems.  We give 

 4           them rebates, we give them a grant.  It seems 

 5           to me that that is the correct way to go with 

 6           this.  

 7                  And I was wondering if you might talk  

 8           about what kind of incentives -- you 

 9           mentioned them but didn't get into any 

10           specifics -- that you think not only would be 

11           incentives that would encourage local 

12           governments to do more with accessory 

13           apartments or maybe, you know, 

14           transit-related development, but would also 

15           encourage the people who live in the 

16           community to actually want to do this 

17           legally.

18                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Yeah, I 

19           think you make a great point about the 

20           incentives.  Not only, you know, the 

21           incentives and support for the local 

22           governments to adopt these policies are 

23           important, but also you need the same for the 

24           property owners themselves to take advantage 


                                                                   454

 1           of this type of zoning law.

 2                  And you also make a great point that 

 3           for a local government to adopt an ADU or 

 4           TOD, they have to revisit their comprehensive 

 5           plan, they have a whole process that they 

 6           have to go through to make sure it fits in 

 7           with the character of their community.  Which 

 8           is why a state law that applies to every 

 9           municipality in the state can never work to 

10           dictate how the ADUs are going to work.  And 

11           that's why we object so strongly to the 

12           proposal.

13                  I mean, in terms of our members, I 

14           think the best support they could get is, you 

15           know, some model local laws and regulations, 

16           a statewide analysis of what does it take to 

17           do this, what does it cost for a local 

18           government to do it.  Maybe some funding for 

19           the local governments to undertake the 

20           analysis of the service impacts that are 

21           going to happen once these ADUs come about.  

22                  I mean, under the Governor's proposal 

23           what isn't really considered at all is the 

24           service impacts on the water system, the 


                                                                   455

 1           sewer system, parking.  You know, those 

 2           things have to be taken into account.  So any 

 3           kind of support the state can give in local 

 4           governments analyzing that as they move 

 5           forward with this kind of zoning would be the 

 6           most helpful.

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN THIELE:  Well, thank you.  

 8           And, you know, we do have a housing crisis.  

 9           We do need to develop more housing and 

10           affordable housing.  I think there's probably 

11           unanimity on that goal.  

12                  I think what we have to try to reach 

13           consensus on here is what are the right tools 

14           to be able to do that, you know, both for 

15           local governments and for homeowners to take 

16           advantage of this program.  

17                  And, you know, I don't like the 

18           proposal as it's been put forward, but I do 

19           think there's a way to get to yes on the 

20           goals of this.  And I look forward to really 

21           working with everybody on that here in the 

22           coming weeks to try to develop a proposal 

23           that will result in, you know, meeting our 

24           housing needs but doing it in a way where, as 


                                                                   456

 1           has been said, you know, the decision-making 

 2           is from the bottom up, from local government 

 3           and from the community up, and not 

 4           one-size-fits-all from the top down.

 5                  So thank you for your comments.  And 

 6           thank you -- you know, it's always been a 

 7           pleasure to work with you.  And look forward 

 8           to continuing to do that.

 9                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Thank 

10           you, Assemblyman.  And we'd be happy to work 

11           with you on trying to come up with an 

12           alternative way of achieving that goal of 

13           more affordable housing.

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN THIELE:  Thank you.

15                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  To the Senate.  

16                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

17                  And now we go to our Local Government 

18           chair, Jim Gaughran, for 10 minutes.

19                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Thank you, 

20           Madam Chair.  And Peter, it's good to see 

21           you.

22                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Good to 

23           see you, Senator.

24                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  So of course Fred 


                                                                   457

 1           going first covers 90 percent of what I was 

 2           going to say.  But maybe we can drill down a 

 3           little bit more on this.  

 4                  You know, and as Fred pointed out, 

 5           most of the communities I represent, they 

 6           already have in their code permission to do 

 7           an accessory dwelling unit.  They're already 

 8           building transit-oriented development.  And 

 9           one of the concerns I have is that in 

10           particular to Long Island, which is, you 

11           know, somewhat unique to the rest of the 

12           state and the country, and that is all our 

13           drinking water comes from a sole-source 

14           aquifer.  So particularly in Suffolk County, 

15           we have had decades of planning and have put 

16           in place a sanitary code that very 

17           specifically forbids development on, you 

18           know, even certain smaller lots or, in 

19           addition to a single-family house, simply 

20           based on the fact that it would destroy our 

21           drinking water unless a sanitary, you know, 

22           sewer system can be built and these new units 

23           can be connected to it.

24                  So I guess one of my questions is, as 


                                                                   458

 1           it relates to this and zoning in particular, 

 2           is the language in the bill that says that 

 3           this process is ministerial and without 

 4           discretionary review or hearing, how do you 

 5           analyze it as it relates to planning board 

 6           decisions, there's an overall town board's 

 7           ability to change zones, and even something 

 8           like our Pine Barrens laws which we have in 

 9           Suffolk County, which has areas that have 

10           minimal zoning to protect the drinking water?

11                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Well, I 

12           mean, the language you just read, you know, 

13           we feel that that's about as blanket of a 

14           mandate as you can get and doesn't really 

15           leave any room at the local level to take 

16           into account, you know, other state laws, 

17           other local laws, you know, parking issues.  

18           It's just -- it's so far to the extreme from 

19           being a supportive optional type of program 

20           that -- I mean, that's why you're seeing the 

21           reaction on Long Island and around the state 

22           to the proposal.

23                  It's just -- it's also out of 

24           character with the rest of the Governor's 


                                                                   459

 1           budget proposal.  Which is why, you know, 

 2           we've opened up a dialogue with the 

 3           Governor's office to find a way where we can 

 4           achieve the goals that they're trying to 

 5           achieve in a workable way.  

 6                  I mean, at the end of the day, who do 

 7           you want to decide how you and your neighbors 

 8           use their property?  Do you want your local 

 9           community to decide, or do you want a state 

10           agency or a state government to decide?  I 

11           think the answer to that is pretty clear.

12                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Again, so you view 

13           this as a preemption of all these other 

14           land-use laws?

15                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Yes.  

16           Yes, we do.

17                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Because some are 

18           arguing that it simply mandates that every 

19           municipality must amend its code, and 

20           therefore all local control will still 

21           continue to exist.

22                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Yeah, 

23           that's not the way we read it.  And it's kind 

24           of scary when we're -- the analysis of the 


                                                                   460

 1           proposal is how bad of a mandate is it.  I 

 2           mean, it's either really, really bad or 

 3           really bad.

 4                  So, you know, I side with the 

 5           interpretation that I described to you, that 

 6           it leaves no discretion at the local level.  

 7           That's what ministerial means.

 8                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  What about -- you 

 9           know, on Long Island in particular, you know, 

10           we have these local waterfront revitalization 

11           plans that have been put in place by many 

12           communities with shorelines, both to deal 

13           with resiliency as well as we have a 

14           stormwater runoff problem that pollutes our 

15           bays, our harbors, our Long Island Sound.

16                  Would you see this as preempting those 

17           plans?

18                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  You 

19           know, to that specific question, Senator, I'd 

20           really want to talk to our counsels here who 

21           advise --

22                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Okay.  That's fine.  

23           So maybe you could take a look at that and --

24                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Yeah, we 


                                                                   461

 1           definitely will.

 2                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  -- and get back to 

 3           us.

 4                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  We will.

 5                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Because again, I 

 6           think we could look to some model zoning laws 

 7           that have been written by some of our 

 8           municipalities on Long Island, some of our 

 9           towns and villages, and look at some 

10           developments that have been done that, you 

11           know, really address both this 

12           transit-oriented and accessory dwelling unit 

13           quite significantly, to look at this.

14                  There's another section of it that I'd 

15           like to get your opinion on that says that a 

16           local government may not require an 

17           additional or amended certificate of 

18           occupancy in connection with an accessory 

19           dwelling unit.  So I'd like to get your 

20           opinion on that.  And would that impact 

21           assessments in that it would bar the 

22           municipality from increasing the assessment 

23           of a homeowner that did this?

24                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Yeah, I 


                                                                   462

 1           think that's an open question as well, is the 

 2           impact on the assessment on the property.

 3                  I think it would be a really 

 4           productive thing for us to do to sit down 

 5           with you, Senator, and other legislators to 

 6           kind of go through our analysis of these 

 7           detailed issues.  But I think just by asking 

 8           the question you're raising some real 

 9           important issues that have to be considered 

10           in looking at the bill.

11                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  And it's also been 

12           described as perhaps just permitting an 

13           extension of a house for, you know, like an 

14           apartment or, you know, permitting a basement 

15           apartment.  Do you think it also permits 

16           somebody to build a fully detached additional 

17           home on a single lot?

18                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Well, 

19           you know, in talking to my counsel, I guess 

20           it depends on what you mean by home, but -- 

21           you know, what that consists of.  But my 

22           understanding is --

23                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Well, another 

24           dwelling, yeah.  Converting a garage into a 


                                                                   463

 1           home.

 2                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Yes, 

 3           could you do one of those tiny houses, you 

 4           know, in the backyard that's not attached to 

 5           the house.  You know, my understanding is 

 6           that's part of the intent of this, is to 

 7           allow that to happen.

 8                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  And again, there 

 9           are communities that are doing this and 

10           there's a need for this and we need 

11           affordable housing.  And I think there -- I 

12           think if we could find a way to incentivize 

13           this, this could be a very good thing.

14                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Yeah.  

15           And we have sample local laws ourselves and 

16           some models that we've put together.  So we'd 

17           like to be part of the mix of trying to 

18           support implementation of this.  As long as, 

19           again, it's done at the local level and not 

20           dictated by the state.

21                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  So, you know, we 

22           would love to try to see if we can get more 

23           AIM and more money to our local governments, 

24           because in many cases this is the only money 


                                                                   464

 1           you receive.  So, you know, many of us will 

 2           work towards trying to see if we can 

 3           accomplish that.  

 4                  My one question, though -- and I think 

 5           we need to follow up on what you think the 

 6           new formula should be.  One of the sections 

 7           you may have left out is cost of living, 

 8           which I think is a very important factor in 

 9           terms of local governments, because the cost 

10           of employment, the cost of healthcare, the 

11           cost of even supplies and energy is different 

12           based on which part of the state you come 

13           from.  So I suggest that maybe that should be 

14           something considered in any formula change.

15                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  I think 

16           that makes sense as well, to look at that.

17                  You know, part of what we're trying to 

18           achieve is right now the formula or the 

19           program and how it's allocated, depending on 

20           the class of local government you are, it 

21           treats you differently.  But as you know on 

22           Long Island, you have large villages there 

23           that are far more urban and larger than a 

24           small upstate city.  So there has to be a way 


                                                                   465

 1           to make sure that a local government's not 

 2           judged by its name, but by what it does 

 3           and --

 4                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Some of our towns 

 5           are bigger than most of our cities, so.

 6                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Yeah.

 7                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Okay, well, thank 

 8           you very much, Peter.

 9                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Thank 

10           you.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We are going to 

12           go now to Assemblyman Ed Ra, ranker on Ways 

13           and Means, for five minutes.

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Thank you, Chair.

15                  Peter, thank you.  I guess I have the 

16           benefit -- or not -- from going after two 

17           Long Island colleagues who went into a lot of 

18           the issue that I also wanted to bring up.  

19           But I mean as you mentioned it with your 

20           reading of this, in terms of, you know, 

21           that -- one of the arguments I've heard is 

22           no, it doesn't usurp local zoning, there's 

23           all these decisions that can still be made.  

24           But, I mean, my reading of it, it goes 


                                                                   466

 1           through a bunch of things that perhaps the 

 2           local zoning authority could still do, but 

 3           then later on it basically puts very strict 

 4           restrictions on all those different topic 

 5           areas.

 6                  So I think one of our concerns is 

 7           exactly that, that it's just -- in addition 

 8           to being a mandate, it puts very little 

 9           control in the hands of those local 

10           governments.  Is that your reading of it?

11                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Yes, I 

12           would agree.  I mean, if somebody makes that 

13           argument that it gives some discretion to the 

14           local governments, at the end of the day, 

15           though, the proposed law is very clear that 

16           every residential unit would have to have a 

17           legal right to having one ADU on it.

18                  So if that's the bottom line of the 

19           proposal, you know, the rest is just 

20           tinkering around the edges.  You're not 

21           really going to be able to control what's 

22           happening in your community.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  So one thing that I 

24           noticed within it with regard to parking -- 


                                                                   467

 1           and it talks about not being able to require 

 2           parking as long as there is, you know, 

 3           adjacent street parking.  And from my reading 

 4           of it, it has I guess a little bit of a 

 5           carveout for if there's only seasonal 

 6           parking.  But as you may be aware, you know, 

 7           many of our villages on Long Island do not 

 8           allow any overnight street parking.  Right?  

 9           And one of the things this allows is garages 

10           to be converted.  They don't need to be 

11           replaced.

12                  So do you see a real potential problem 

13           there that you could be putting these 

14           villages in a situation where there is not 

15           someplace that somebody would be able to park 

16           their vehicle under the language of this 

17           proposal?

18                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Yes, 

19           that is definitely one of our big concerns.  

20           In addition to the impact on water and sewer 

21           services and other services, it's the 

22           practical consideration of parking.  And the 

23           little bit of control we would have over 

24           parking that's cited in the proposal we don't 


                                                                   468

 1           think is meaningful at all.  And in the type 

 2           of communities you describe, where there's no 

 3           overnight parking, you know, it's going to be 

 4           a real issue basically expanding the 

 5           population of the municipality and the number 

 6           of cars when you don't -- you're not doing 

 7           anything about expanding the amount of 

 8           parking.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Thank you.

10                  And then the last thing -- and I think 

11           that's great, the idea of trying to really 

12           come up with a new formula for AIM.  As you 

13           know, there's the -- and on the positive 

14           side, right, we're moving away from what 

15           happened a few years ago with that taking the 

16           money from basically -- I always said it's 

17           coming out of one pocket and into the other 

18           in terms of our local governments.  So that's 

19           good.

20                  But certainly modernizing that I think 

21           is an excellent idea, and I look forward to, 

22           you know, discussions in that regard.

23                  But as you know, it's been flat for so 

24           long that it became less and less, really, of 


                                                                   469

 1           something that could be relied upon.  But 

 2           what are the types of things you see the 

 3           local governments able to do if they were 

 4           able to get some meaningful increase in AIM 

 5           like you talked about, if it was that 

 6           5 percent, north of $300 million, that could 

 7           have gone to our local governments?

 8                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Well, 

 9           you know, I kind of alluded to this in terms 

10           of, you know, there's been an infusion of 

11           federal money that all local governments have 

12           received, but it's very restrictive how it 

13           can be used.  It's generally, you know, for 

14           capital purposes, and it's a one-time 

15           infusion.  So some people want to cite that 

16           as there's no need for local governments to 

17           get any more aid because they're rolling in 

18           the cash, and that is not the case.  

19                  And I use the term operational aid.  

20           That's what local governments need.  I mean, 

21           to do all the basic things they do -- police 

22           on the streets, you know, their firefighters, 

23           planning and zoning that we've just spent a 

24           lot of time talking about.  Their water and 


                                                                   470

 1           sewer systems, code enforcement.  I mean, 

 2           everything they do is service-based, which 

 3           means it's people-based.  And they don't -- 

 4           there's no aid they receive right now that 

 5           helps them pay the costs of people, their 

 6           employees, paying their employees for 

 7           providing the services.  

 8                  And as everybody knows, finding 

 9           employees now is getting more and more 

10           difficult.  The cost of paying employees is 

11           rising.  So, you know, I think it would go to 

12           all of that.

13                  And we've said in our proposal even if 

14           there was an annual reporting that the local 

15           governments would have to do just sort of 

16           summarizing how they use the money so that it 

17           just didn't seem like state legislators and 

18           the Governor could never really talk about 

19           all the good the program did, because nobody 

20           can say what it went to.  You know, we are 

21           fine with that too if it's done in a kind of 

22           a streamlined, summary-type way.

23                  But, you know, something has to 

24           change.  And just drive around New York State 


                                                                   471

 1           and, you know, see how local governments are 

 2           doing, and they're under a lot of fiscal 

 3           stress.  And the state needs to be a partner.  

 4           Not at the level of what they are with 

 5           schools, but there's got to be an 

 6           acknowledgement that municipalities play an 

 7           important role in the upbringing of our 

 8           children, the safety of our communities, and 

 9           the economic development that our state 

10           depends upon.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Thank you.

12                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

13                  We send it back to the Senate.

14                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

15           much.  And I believe our next testifier is 

16           Ranker Ed Rath.

17                  SENATOR RATH:  Thank you very much, 

18           Madam Chair.

19                  And Peter, it's good to see you, and 

20           thanks for your patience today.  It's been a 

21           long day.

22                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  You too.

23                  SENATOR RATH:  My first question has 

24           to do with local and state collaboration.  


                                                                   472

 1           And the past administration, the previous 

 2           governor was really no fan of local 

 3           collaboration; I think we can all kind of 

 4           agree on that.  And this current 

 5           administration seems to be more open to 

 6           working with local municipalities.

 7                  Is that in fact the case?  And can you 

 8           expand on that a little bit and describe the 

 9           new positive working relationship between 

10           this current administration and our local 

11           municipalities and cities?

12                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Yeah, I 

13           would say there's been a 180-degree change.  

14           And it hasn't just been, you know, the words 

15           coming out of the Governor's mouth, it's been 

16           the way they've -- her administration's been 

17           interacting with us.  You know, since she 

18           came into office, you know, we talk about all 

19           these issues, even issues we don't agree 

20           upon.  There's a dialogue with them.  The 

21           Governor's coming to speak to our membership 

22           on Monday, which it's been a long, long time 

23           since we had a governor come speak to our 

24           mayors at our annual legislative conference.


                                                                   473

 1                  So, you know, we're really encouraged 

 2           by the relationship.  I think, you know, the 

 3           Governor's background as a local official is 

 4           really going to bode well for her service as 

 5           our Governor and for local governments 

 6           themselves.

 7                  SENATOR RATH:  Well, I couldn't agree 

 8           with you more.  And many of us come from a 

 9           local government background, and we served in 

10           cities, towns, villages, counties, whatever 

11           it may be, so we have an understanding -- and 

12           so does the Governor.  I think that's very 

13           helpful.

14                  I want to ask a little bit more of a 

15           specific question about the impact of 

16           COVID-19 on businesses and local economies.  

17           And they've been really left, in many ways, 

18           in a state of disarray.  And as State 

19           Senators and Assemblymen, how can we help to 

20           better partner with our communities as they 

21           look to repair and rebuild as they come out 

22           of this pandemic?

23                  And secondly, I guess the follow-up 

24           question to that is, is there just simply 


                                                                   474

 1           more funding or are there specific policies 

 2           that your members are talking about statewide 

 3           that we can do to offer that assistance?

 4                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Yeah.  

 5           Well, you know, our members, with the money 

 6           they've received from Washington, you know, 

 7           under the ARPA program, one of the key 

 8           purposes for which they can use it is to 

 9           support small business.  And, you know, I 

10           know our mayors are trying everything they 

11           can to help small businesses get back up on 

12           their feet.  I know Mayor Sheehan was on 

13           earlier and talked about -- you know, she's 

14           had a very sort of open process for deciding 

15           how to use their ARPA funding, and they've 

16           dedicated a lot of it to using it for groups 

17           that either are small businesses or support 

18           small businesses.

19                  So I think from a municipal level, the 

20           best thing you can do for us to help small 

21           business is to allow us to provide the best 

22           services, to have the best infrastructure.  

23           Which is a lot of what you're doing with the 

24           water, sewer and transportation money.  But 


                                                                   475

 1           again, not to harp all the time in AIM, but 

 2           I'm going to.  I mean, the more fiscal 

 3           stability and sustainability a municipality 

 4           has, the more it can do to support its small 

 5           businesses.

 6                  SENATOR RATH:  And just to follow up 

 7           on that briefly, you know, you talk about the 

 8           AIM formula, and certainly I think we need to 

 9           look at that.  The COLA was a -- there was a 

10           drumbeat, a resounding drumbeat, a consistent 

11           drumbeat about making a COLA adjustment to 

12           that.  

13                  And also something I'm going to ask 

14           later is about, you know, shared services and 

15           collaboration amongst governments.  And, you 

16           know, I think there's really an opportunity 

17           for that to be explored.  And it's more of a 

18           countywide issue, I understand that, but I 

19           think there's opportunities amongst all 

20           municipalities to share services for 

21           efficiencies and cost savings and eliminate 

22           redundancies.

23                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Yeah, I 

24           mean, we think -- there's always more that 


                                                                   476

 1           can be done, but we do think local 

 2           governments and I know in your part of the 

 3           state that the villages and towns and 

 4           counties work together pretty well.  They're 

 5           always looking where it makes sense to do 

 6           things collaboratively, and some productive 

 7           programs have come out of the whole 

 8           countywide shared services initiative.

 9                  So I think, you know, the local 

10           government officials' eye on -- you know, 

11           they can't take their eye off that efficiency 

12           with local governments, and I think for the 

13           most part they don't.  I think that's 

14           something they're always looking to do.

15                  SENATOR RATH:  Well, again, Peter, 

16           thank you for all of your leadership and hard 

17           work and advocacy, and I look forward to 

18           keeping in touch.

19                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Thank 

20           you very much.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

22                  We go to Assemblyman Otis.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Thank you, Helene.

24                  And Peter, nice to see you.


                                                                   477

 1                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  You too, 

 2           Assemblyman.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  You're doing a 

 4           great job advocating for our local 

 5           governments, and keep up the good work.

 6                  I wanted to go to a topic that's been 

 7           discussed earlier today and hear what you're 

 8           hearing from local governments about the 

 9           cybersecurity risks and threats that they're 

10           encountering.

11                  And one question I have is, you know, 

12           so often we hear about these after the 

13           incident has happened.  What resources are 

14           available, and who are local governments 

15           going to for prevention?  What are you 

16           hearing from your members?

17                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Well, I 

18           mean, I think your approach to this is spot 

19           on, and that's the approach we're trying to 

20           take as an association, along with the 

21           Association of Towns, Association of 

22           Counties, is to try to get our people to 

23           prepare and prevent, you know, these 

24           incidents happening.


                                                                   478

 1                  You may not -- you probably are aware, 

 2           Assemblyman, but not everybody on the call 

 3           here, on the Zoom, that there's an insurance 

 4           program in New York, the New York Municipal 

 5           Insurance Reciprocal that was formed under 

 6           the Insurance Law by the three municipal 

 7           associations back in 1987.  We insure more 

 8           than 900 municipalities around the state, and 

 9           this issue of cyber risk is at the top of our 

10           priority list.  It has been for the last 

11           several years.  

12                  The three associations and the folks 

13           at NYMIR have been meeting with the 

14           Governor's administration, with ITS and DHSES 

15           and also with the Office of the State 

16           Comptroller to find, you know, more effective 

17           ways to improve local governments' cyber 

18           hygiene and to try to get local governments 

19           thinking about this as something that they 

20           just don't wait till it happens and then 

21           address it.

22                  You know, our biggest fear, and where 

23           we think the state could help, is we have 

24           this fear that because local governments have 


                                                                   479

 1           so many interactions technology-wise with the 

 2           state, whether it's with the retirement 

 3           system or with the State Comptroller's office 

 4           or the annual financial reports they've 

 5           filed, that if there was ever a cyberattack 

 6           that got into local governments through one 

 7           of these state agencies that interacts with 

 8           local governments, then we'd have a really, 

 9           really big problem where it wouldn't just be 

10           a one-off here or there of cyberattacks, but 

11           they could hit hundreds of municipalities at 

12           the same time.

13                  So, you know, we're doing everything 

14           we can.  The Association of Counties -- I 

15           know Steve Acquario's going to be on -- they 

16           led the charge in putting together a primer 

17           for local officials that we just put out this 

18           week to try to get elected officials up to 

19           speed on what this is all about and what they 

20           can do locally to prevent attacks.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Thank you, Peter.

22                  And I'll just say everyone should know 

23           NYCOM has a great staff.  You do have a great 

24           team that helps all the local governments 


                                                                   480

 1           during the course of the year.  So a shout 

 2           out to everybody on your team.

 3                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Thank 

 4           you very much.

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Back to the 

 6           Senate.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

 8           much.

 9                  And I think we are closing with 

10           Senator O'Mara.

11                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Thank you, 

12           Senator Krueger.

13                  Peter, good to see you today.  Thanks 

14           for being with us.

15                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Hi, 

16           Senator.

17                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Glad to hear you're 

18           sharing some optimism on repairing the 

19           relationships between state government and 

20           local governments.  Really glad to hear that.  

21           It's really been a decade of a decline of a 

22           working-together attitude across New York 

23           State.  So I'm really pleased to hear that 

24           that's actually improving.


                                                                   481

 1                  You know, there's a lot of money 

 2           sitting around Albany right now and, you 

 3           know, a thousand ideas on how to spend it.  

 4           One of the issues that I, you know, have 

 5           worked on for years is trying to chip away at 

 6           the unfunded mandates.  And I know we're 

 7           going to hear from Steve Acquario that bears 

 8           the brunt of, you know, the large ones, 

 9           anyways, that come down.

10                  But at the NYCOM level, at the village 

11           and city level, are there significant 

12           mandates that you could itemize that we 

13           should be looking at taking back the cost of 

14           those while we are apparently flush with 

15           cash?

16                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Well, I 

17           mean, the biggest mandate right now, if you 

18           asked the average city or village official, 

19           they probably would say first and foremost is 

20           the prevailing wage requirements and the 

21           feeling that -- they understand the need for 

22           prevailing wage, but they don't think the 

23           system works well in terms of the added cost 

24           of doing a project when it's subject to 


                                                                   482

 1           prevailing wage.

 2                  And as you know, year in and year out 

 3           it seems like the prevailing wage and its 

 4           applicability has expanded by the State 

 5           Legislature.  So, you know, that's a really 

 6           big one.

 7                  A smaller one that the Governor's 

 8           trying to address, which I don't 

 9           understand -- I mean, I understand 

10           politically maybe why it's not happening, but 

11           logic doesn't understand why it wouldn't 

12           happen, that the interest rate on judgments 

13           that the state and local governments pay 

14           right now is 9 percent, is the interest rate, 

15           rather than an adjustable rate.  Yes, I know 

16           interest rates are going up a bit, but 

17           they're nowhere near 9 percent.  And local 

18           governments -- you know, that's just a gift 

19           that local governments can't afford to pay 

20           that they're paying, you know, on judgments 

21           and claims against them.

22                  So we'd love to see the Legislature 

23           fix that.

24                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Yeah, I agree with 


                                                                   483

 1           you there, and it's something we've been 

 2           working on and trying to get fixed and have 

 3           it tied to a more -- more current interest 

 4           rate that's in the market somehow on that and 

 5           just haven't been able to crack that nut.  

 6           I'd like to see that happen.

 7                  On the prevailing wage, certainly it's 

 8           important when tax dollars are at use.  You 

 9           know, we're paying, you know, a decent wage 

10           for that work to be done.  But it is a 

11           mandate from the state that does impact you 

12           on local projects.  Is NYCOM or any of the 

13           groups gotten any study together on what that 

14           additional cost is to municipalities across 

15           the state?  And, you know, maybe that's 

16           something that the state should look at 

17           subsidizing local governments for.

18                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Yeah, we 

19           as an association haven't tried to calculate 

20           that.  I mean, we have focused on what you 

21           alluded to, and that's finding a way of 

22           measuring what the prevailing wage rate 

23           should be for a particular area.  We don't 

24           think the current methodology for calculating 


                                                                   484

 1           it really reflects what's supposed to be a 

 2           fair prevailing wage in many communities, 

 3           especially in upstate New York.

 4                  So that's the thing we've been trying 

 5           to get fixed, because I think our members 

 6           understand you need to pay the prevailing 

 7           wage, but they just want to make sure it's 

 8           not way above and beyond that.

 9                  SENATOR O'MARA:  That it's actually 

10           the prevailing wage and not --

11                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Yes.  

12           Yes.

13                  SENATOR O'MARA:  -- inflated.  No, I 

14           hear you.

15                  Well, thank you very much, Peter.  

16           Have a great day.

17                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Thank 

18           you, Senator.

19                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

20                  We go to Assemblyman Jacobson.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  Thank you.  

22           Thank you, everybody, for hanging in there as 

23           we start the ninth hour very soon.

24                  The Conference of Mayors has always 


                                                                   485

 1           been a great resource to local government.  

 2           When I was on the city council in Newburgh, 

 3           we were able -- we used -- I used it a lot, 

 4           very helpful.  

 5                  I'm glad that you mentioned about the 

 6           rate of reimbursement for state highways that 

 7           go through cities -- Poughkeepsie is one 

 8           example.  It hasn't changed, they need it.  

 9           But I'm -- also on the accessory units, do 

10           you think that this would just wipe out the 

11           environmental impact statement?  I mean, 

12           wouldn't there still be a need, wouldn't 

13           there still be -- would that be a conflict 

14           with that?

15                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  We do 

16           think that that's again -- we're limited to 

17           the comprehensive plan that has to always be 

18           revisited before you make -- locally make a 

19           change to do ADUs or TODs.  But you also have 

20           to look at the environmental impact, and we 

21           don't see that in the proposal being, you 

22           know, taken into account -- again, because 

23           it's just an absolute mandate of being able 

24           to --


                                                                   486

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  Yeah, I think 

 2           we can do -- I've got to move quickly.

 3                  You know, one of the things is that if 

 4           you had a new development that was 1500 units 

 5           of some sort, the town would say, oh, my God, 

 6           how can we -- is there enough water, sewer?  

 7           You know, are we going to have enough -- 

 8           how's the traffic going to be?  Well, this 

 9           easily can go to that and beyond without 

10           thinking, without the planning.

11                  And that's why I just want to say 

12           there's just so many unintended consequences 

13           of this that have to be addressed.  You have 

14           to have owner occupied before you can do it.  

15           Well, how are they going to enforce that all 

16           the time?  Will this mean there's more B&Bs 

17           happening when people don't want that?  

18                  I mean, there are all these things 

19           that we have local zoning for, and I just 

20           think that -- the problem with taxes.  If you 

21           want people to do it, well, maybe what we 

22           should do is have a pilot so that people do 

23           not have to -- for the structural and 

24           bringing your house up to code for another 


                                                                   487

 1           unit, then maybe we could delay the full 

 2           taxes on that to the homeowner.  

 3                  So these are the things that I think 

 4           have to be thought about.  And there's not 

 5           enough time here.  I just want to say I 

 6           appreciate it and I hope that all of us would 

 7           think about the unintended consequences while 

 8           we go for certain goals here.  There's a way 

 9           to do it, but I think this -- it has to be 

10           done with the local government.  And I think 

11           my time is up, so I have to stop.

12                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  We 

13           concur, Assemblyman.

14                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

15                  So Peter, that concludes all of the 

16           questioners from the Assembly and Senate.  

17           Thank you for spending some time with us as 

18           we go through the budget process.

19                  NYCOM EXEC. DIRECTOR BAYNES:  Thank 

20           you.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

22           much, Peter. 

23                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  So next we are 

24           going to -- our next witness is the New York 


                                                                   488

 1           City Council, the Honorable Adrienne Adams, 

 2           speaker of the City Council.  

 3                  And I see that she has brought some 

 4           people with her.  Behind that mask I see 

 5           Justin.  He I can recognize.

 6                  (Laughter.)

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  -- as the 

 8           New York City Council finance chair.  Can you 

 9           identify the person to your right?

10                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  

11           Absolutely.  This is our new chief financial 

12           officer and deputy chief of staff of finance, 

13           Tenisha Edwards.

14                  MS. EDWARDS:  Hello.

15                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  So since this 

16           is your first time here, I just want to 

17           explain your testimony has been circulated to 

18           all of the members here.  You have up to 

19           10 minutes.  Feel free to use less than that 

20           time.  And then there will be some questions 

21           from the Assembly and Senators who are still 

22           with us today.

23                  So feel free to begin.

24                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  Thank you 


                                                                   489

 1           very much.  And good afternoon, Chair 

 2           Krueger,  Chair Weinstein, Ranking Minority 

 3           Members O'Mara and Ra, all the members of the 

 4           Senate Finance and Assembly Ways and Means 

 5           Committee.  I thank you for your time today, 

 6           and I also thank Majority Leader 

 7           Stewart-Cousins and Speaker Heastie.

 8                  I'm Adrienne Adams, speaker of the 

 9           New York City Council and the representative 

10           of Council District 28 in Southeast Queens.  

11           As you've said, Madam Chair, I am joined here 

12           today by the Council's Finance Committee 

13           chair, Councilmember Justin Brannan, and our 

14           new chief financial officer and deputy chief 

15           of staff for finance, Tenisha Edwards.

16                  I'm pleased to be before these 

17           esteemed bodies to discuss the Executive 

18           Budget for state fiscal year 2023 and its 

19           potential impact on New York City.

20                  I was raised in Queens, the daughter 

21           of union workers.  I'm the product of our 

22           public school system.  I previously worked in 

23           the private sector and my roots in public 

24           service were at the local level, chairing 


                                                                   490

 1           Queens Community Board 12.  

 2                  From government representation at the 

 3           local level, we know how our budgets impact 

 4           communities.  Neighborhoods like the ones 

 5           that I represent have historically been 

 6           underfunded and underserved.  This pandemic 

 7           has laid bare how this disproportionately 

 8           harms New Yorkers in many parts of our city 

 9           and state.  Black and brown communities were 

10           among those hardest hit by COVID-19, and also 

11           least prioritized for resources to protect 

12           them.  Inequities that could be papered over 

13           before the pandemic have since been revealed 

14           to be critical fault lines that not only 

15           undermine the communities experiencing them 

16           but the entire city and state.

17                  We find ourselves in a moment that is 

18           both difficult due to the pandemic and one 

19           that holds promise.  We now have an 

20           opportunity to address some of our 

21           longstanding systemic challenges.  The 

22           council looks forward to working in 

23           partnership with you to ensure neighborhoods 

24           that were forgotten in the past are no longer 


                                                                   491

 1           underserved but instead are prioritized for 

 2           key investments in public health and safety, 

 3           education, housing, and economic recovery.  

 4           Together the state and city can pave the 

 5           pathway to a healthier and safer New York for 

 6           all.

 7                  New York City continues its slow 

 8           recovery from this COVID-19 pandemic.  

 9           Employment is up 600,000 jobs compared to its 

10           low points in the spring of 2020.  However, 

11           this is still 330,000 jobs below our 

12           pre-COVID peak.  The city is in a stable 

13           fiscal position with tax collections 

14           exceeding our projections and some remaining 

15           budget reserves.  However, significant fiscal 

16           risks remain in the latter part of New York 

17           City's financial plan which could be 

18           aggravated if changing work habits lowered 

19           the value of Manhattan office space.  As 

20           speaker, I intend to prioritize careful 

21           management of the city's budget.

22                  The council applauds the Governor's 

23           effort to increase state budgetary reserves.  

24           This will improve the stability of the 


                                                                   492

 1           state's budget and reduce the likelihood that 

 2           unexpected dips in state revenue lead to 

 3           budget cuts impacting our residents.  The 

 4           council is also pleased that this budget 

 5           reflects a new era of goodwill and 

 6           collaboration between our state and city, 

 7           including the proposals to extend mayoral 

 8           control of schools for four years and 

 9           cost-sharing of New York City's Medicaid 

10           growth.

11                  I'm also encouraged by the increased 

12           eligibility thresholds for vital safety net 

13           programs, including public assistance, 

14           childcare, and health insurance.  This 

15           extension of support to struggling families 

16           is critical as we recover from the pandemic.  

17                  There are several additional proposals 

18           in the State Budget that the council 

19           supports, even if additional efforts may be 

20           needed in some areas.  Access to childcare 

21           was an issue before the pandemic, and if 

22           anything, the pandemic has further 

23           exacerbated the issue.  We're happy to see 

24           the over $900 million investments for 


                                                                   493

 1           childcare over the next three years to 

 2           increase childcare worker wages and add 

 3           capacity, as well as the increase of the 

 4           family income eligibility threshold.

 5                  Additionally, the $4.8 million to 

 6           establish additional childcare facilities on 

 7           CUNY campuses is a smart investment in young 

 8           children and their parents seeking higher 

 9           education.  

10                  Our small businesses are key to the 

11           state's economic recovery.  We support the 

12           Governor's $1 billion small business plan and 

13           ask that the city's small businesses receive 

14           their fair share of this funding.  We're 

15           grateful that the federal Infrastructure 

16           Investment and Jobs Act will fund the Gateway 

17           Tunnel project and express the need for 

18           additional federal infrastructure dollars 

19           coming into New York to support other major 

20           projects that advance equity and job creation 

21           in other parts of the city.

22                  The commitments to grow the state's 

23           healthcare workforce by 20 percent over the 

24           next five years and provide $1.2 billion in 


                                                                   494

 1           bonuses for certain frontline healthcare and 

 2           direct support workers who have tirelessly 

 3           served our communities are essential.  The 

 4           city has been disproportionately impacted by 

 5           this pandemic, and it is critical that we 

 6           receive our fair share and ensure our nurses 

 7           are included in this proposal.

 8                  We also support the tripling of 

 9           investments into hospital-based and 

10           community-based violence prevention with the 

11           state's proposed $95 million allocation.  

12           This welcome state support should be 

13           distributed equitably to support New York 

14           City neighborhoods suffering the impact of 

15           violence.

16                  On education, the increase in school 

17           aid is much needed and the Executive Budget 

18           continues the promise to meet the Campaign 

19           for Fiscal Equity mandate by allocating 

20           $8.9 billion in Foundation Aid.  I expect the 

21           DOE similarly to provide all of our schools 

22           with 100 percent of their Fair Student 

23           Funding next year.  We also fully support the 

24           tuition rate increase of 11 percent to help 


                                                                   495

 1           preschool special education providers address 

 2           the early education needs of students with 

 3           disabilities, which often goes overlooked.

 4                  We also commend the Governor's support 

 5           for higher education and the proposed plan to 

 6           make higher education more affordable and 

 7           accessible by maintaining CUNY's State 

 8           Operating Aid levels and protecting community 

 9           colleges from cuts due to pandemic-related 

10           enrollment declines.

11                  The proposed expansion of the Tuition 

12           Assistance Program, or TAP, to part-time and 

13           working students is a smart step to increase 

14           access to higher education.  Closing the 

15           $59 million difference between TAP funding 

16           for students and actual tuition costs, known 

17           as the TAP gap, is also critical.

18                  The proposal to remove TAP 

19           restrictions on incarcerated New Yorkers is a 

20           smart investment, given the evidence showing 

21           how access to higher education can reduce 

22           recidivism.  

23                  In the area of public assistance, the 

24           Governor's proposal to allow an increase in 


                                                                   496

 1           the amount of earned wages and savings 

 2           allowed for recipients before losing 

 3           eligibility would be a lifeline to 

 4           New Yorkers recovering from the pandemic.

 5                  And on public housing, the state's 

 6           most recent allocation of $450 million in 

 7           capital funding to address boiler 

 8           replacements and elevator car replacements in 

 9           New York City Housing Authority developments 

10           is greatly appreciated.  NYCHA's capital 

11           needs equate to $31.8 billion, and we ask the 

12           state to consider allocating more funding to 

13           complement the city's $2.9 billion allocation 

14           to support it.

15                  There are several areas where the 

16           state can restore previous funding cuts or go 

17           further in its current proposals.  On 

18           healthcare, while we applaud the proposal to 

19           expand eligibility for healthcare in the 

20           Essential Plan to 250 percent of the federal 

21           poverty level, we encourage you to consider 

22           additional strategies to extend coverage to 

23           the more than 1 million New Yorkers who 

24           remain uninsured.


                                                                   497

 1                  We also urge the state to end its 

 2           interception of city sales tax revenue for 

 3           the Distressed Providers Fund and award the 

 4           funds already collected to the city's Health 

 5           + Hospitals system.  

 6                  The American Rescue Plan's state 

 7           fiscal recovery funds are a lifeline, and the 

 8           state should direct a portion to New York 

 9           City's healthcare infrastructure.  

10                  It is critical that state and city 

11           work closely together to ensure that final 

12           submission of the state's Medicaid 1115 

13           waiver to the federal government prioritize 

14           funding for the city's focus on health 

15           equity, particularly for low-income 

16           communities of color.

17                  On mental health, the state has 

18           partnered with the city to support outreach 

19           that transitions individuals living on the 

20           street into stable housing and treatment.  

21           There is a need for more focus and resources 

22           to address the mental health needs of 

23           New Yorkers, including those who are 

24           homeless, especially given the recent 


                                                                   498

 1           incidents in the city.

 2                  One education concern that we have is 

 3           the impact of our time-limited extraordinary 

 4           federal aid on the charter school tuition 

 5           formula.  The federal stimulus funds should 

 6           be excluded from the state's calculation of 

 7           charter school tuition payments so that there 

 8           is not an undue increase in the city's 

 9           funding liability for charter school tuition 

10           payments.

11                  I would also like to remind you that 

12           New York City continues to feel the impact of 

13           prior state budget cuts that targeted our 

14           city.  Reduced state funding for public 

15           health programs, Temporary Assistance for 

16           Needy Families or TANF grants, foster-care 

17           tuition, and special education placement in 

18           residential schools, as well as the complete 

19           elimination of state support for the Close To 

20           Home program for young people in the juvenile 

21           justice system, has left a $180 million hole 

22           in our city budget.

23                  On housing, the council is hopeful 

24           that the governor and mayor's request for 


                                                                   499

 1           more federal funding for the Emergency Rental 

 2           Assistance Program will be fulfilled, yet we 

 3           urge the state to consider allocating a 

 4           backstop as a contingency if additional 

 5           federal dollars do not materialize.  

 6                  Major economic and housing proposals 

 7           like the proposed 485-w tax break to replace 

 8           421-a, and those related to casinos, require 

 9           careful consideration and conversation with 

10           the city and other stakeholders.  We 

11           encourage these to be separate conversations 

12           apart from and subsequent to the budget 

13           process, so they receive the devoted focus 

14           they require.

15                  Lastly, we urge the state to 

16           permanently authorize design-build authority, 

17           rather than granting the proposed three-year 

18           extension, to enhance construction efficiency 

19           and engage constructively with the city on 

20           reforming our city property tax system to 

21           make it fairer and more transparent.

22                  We are at an important juncture for 

23           our state and city.  I thank you for your 

24           time and attention today and look forward to 


                                                                   500

 1           our continued productive partnership to enact  

 2           a state budget that supports the City of 

 3           New York and every person who calls it home.

 4                  Thank you.  

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you, 

 6           Council President.  

 7                  We go to the chair of our Cities 

 8           Committee, Assemblyman Ed Braunstein, for 

 9           10 minutes.

10                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Thank you, 

11           Chair Weinstein.  

12                  And it's good to see you, 

13           Speaker Adams, from Queens County.

14                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  Wonderful 

15           to see you, Assemblyman.

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Yes.  And 

17           also thank you for joining us, 

18           Chairman Brannan and Ms. Edwards.  We 

19           appreciate -- it's been a long day, and we 

20           appreciate you guys hanging around to 

21           testify.

22                  I'm just going to touch on two topics, 

23           the first being, as you mentioned in your 

24           testimony, the desire for comprehensive 


                                                                   501

 1           property tax reform.  This is something that, 

 2           you know, we've talked about at the city and 

 3           state level for a very long time but, you 

 4           know, never get around to accomplishing.  

 5                  And I'm just wondering if the council 

 6           as a body has developed a roadmap to follow 

 7           as to how they want to accomplish this.  I 

 8           know it's something that we need to pass in 

 9           Albany, but obviously since it has such a big 

10           impact on the city's finances, it's going to 

11           have to be done in coordination with you as 

12           well.  So do you have a plan?  

13                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  We are 

14           still working on that, Assemblymember.  And 

15           again, it's very good to see you in this 

16           environment as well.

17                  The reform plan released by the recent 

18           commission presents a good plan, but there 

19           are still issues to be resolved before the 

20           city can move forward.  For example, the plan 

21           includes a circuit breaker, which is a 

22           critical tool to provide relief for low- and 

23           moderate-income homeowners and to prevent 

24           displacement.  But that reform commission 


                                                                   502

 1           neglected to identify a funding source for 

 2           the tool.  

 3                  We know that people have waited far 

 4           too long for this, so we want to move 

 5           quickly, but we do have to get it right.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Sure.  And it 

 7           seems like already you've started the process 

 8           and you've already identified some things you 

 9           don't like.  So it's encouraging.  And, you 

10           know, I hope we can continue to communicate 

11           moving forward, because in my district in 

12           Northeast Queens we pay some of the highest 

13           effective property taxes in the city and it's 

14           been an unfair system for too long and we'd 

15           like to see that changed.

16                  The other area that I wanted to touch 

17           on, which has been a big topic of discussion 

18           for local governments throughout the day, is 

19           the Governor's proposal to legalize accessory 

20           dwelling units.  She has proposed a statewide 

21           approach to legalizing ADUs, as they're 

22           called.  In my opinion it kind of circumvents 

23           the city's zoning and planning process.  

24                  Does the council have a position on 


                                                                   503

 1           the Governor's proposal regarding ADUs?  

 2                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  Well, we 

 3           welcome, certainly welcome a discussion about 

 4           how we can improve housing production and 

 5           affordability not just in the city but in the 

 6           suburbs and surrounding communities where 

 7           many city workers live.  We know that these 

 8           are complicated issues with long-term 

 9           impacts.  So again, we think they're better 

10           discussed after the State Budget, when more 

11           attention can be given.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Great.  

13           Great.  I agree.  It's not really a 

14           budget-related issue, it's more of a policy 

15           matter and it should be pulled out and 

16           discussed separately.

17                  So those are my two questions.  Once 

18           again, thank you for hanging around this late 

19           into the evening.  And it was good to see 

20           you.  Thank you for testifying.

21                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  A 

22           pleasure.  Thank you.

23                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go to the 

24           Senate now.


                                                                   504

 1                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

 2           much.  

 3                  And welcome with your first visit up 

 4           here, new speaker of the City Council.  And 

 5           anyone who knows New York City government 

 6           knows they're doing evening meetings all the 

 7           time also --

 8                  (Laughter, overtalk.)

 9                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  Exactly, 

10           Senator.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  So you're just on 

12           a Zoom somewhere different tonight, no 

13           difference.

14                  Our first speaker is Senator 

15           Sepúlveda, our chair of the Cities Committee.

16                  SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:  Good evening, 

17           Madam Speaker, Chairman Brannan, Ms. Edwards.  

18           I want to commend you on your patience in 

19           waiting this long, but hopefully it was well 

20           worth it.

21                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  

22           Absolutely.

23                  SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:  Ed Braunstein 

24           keeps beating me to the punch on the issue of 


                                                                   505

 1           the property tax, changes in the property tax 

 2           system in the City of New York.  But what I 

 3           have for you is a question that's more 

 4           targeted to the kind of community that I 

 5           represent.  

 6                  I am the chair of Cities 1, and as 

 7           I've told other representatives that have 

 8           spoken from the city, that I am here to work 

 9           with you in any possible, any form that I 

10           can, to bring the best that we can for the 

11           City of New York.  That's a responsibility 

12           that's been given to me, and I take that very 

13           seriously.  And I hope that we can partner on 

14           anything that you need assistance with at the 

15           state level.

16                  But my question is more in terms of 

17           communities like the one I represent.  I'm 

18           sure it's not that much different from your 

19           community.  One of the poorest districts 

20           probably in the country is the area that I 

21           represent in the Bronx.  And I know that you 

22           very eloquently spoke about some of the 

23           programs from the Governor, the federal 

24           government, and things that you approve.  But 


                                                                   506

 1           I also know that as the speaker of the 

 2           City Council you have a large say in the way 

 3           policy goes in the City of New York and 

 4           budgets, the way they go in the City of 

 5           New York and in my district.  

 6                  I want to know what kind of impact you 

 7           can have directly on the economic 

 8           development -- you know, we have the highest 

 9           unemployment rate -- and the educational 

10           system.  Aside from what the Governor has 

11           given us and the federal government, what the 

12           City Council can do to make a considerable 

13           drastic change in the trajectory of the 

14           economic development in our communities and 

15           the graduation rates that are the lowest in 

16           the State of New York, certainly.  What you 

17           can do -- financially, policywise -- to make 

18           a drastic change in our communities.

19                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  I like the 

20           question a lot, Senator.  It's great to see 

21           you as well.

22                  SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:  Thank you.

23                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  And you're 

24           absolutely right.  The area that you're 


                                                                   507

 1           responsible for is a lot like the area, 

 2           District 28 in Southeast Queens, that I 

 3           represent as well.  So your question is very 

 4           germane and very important.  

 5                  What we've seen in the past has been 

 6           drastic inequity across the board for 

 7           communities of color.  And we've of course 

 8           seen everything exacerbated by the pandemic.  

 9           What we intend to do in the New York City 

10           Council is spread across the board equity.  

11           We are represented now in every corner of the 

12           New York City Council, communities and 

13           representation that look like communities of 

14           color, that look like the communities that 

15           they represent.  And we are in full force to 

16           support those communities, be it through the 

17           education system, be it through equitable and 

18           affordable housing and what that looks like 

19           to us and may not look like to everyone else, 

20           meaning bringing forth creative affordable 

21           housing, some things that we have not looked 

22           at in the past.  For me, I'm a fan of the 

23           basement apartments and legalizing those to 

24           make more affordable housing across the board 


                                                                   508

 1           for people that have never been able to 

 2           afford it before.

 3                  So what the City Council can do -- and 

 4           I believe we have done -- is become a part 

 5           and partner of those that live in our 

 6           communities who look like us, that have been 

 7           underserved for so long.  Our commitment is 

 8           to represent those communities because we 

 9           live in those communities and we see 

10           firsthand the impact of inequity across the 

11           board.  We'll do everything in our power to 

12           create an equitable system, be that 

13           legislatively, be that financially when it 

14           comes to the budget and restoring budgetary 

15           items within our City Council lines and 

16           working with the mayor and the 

17           administration, of course, to ensure equity 

18           across the board.

19                  SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:  Okay.  You've 

20           heard I'm sure about the mayor's blueprint 

21           plan on criminal justice reform, bail reform.  

22           It's fair to say that there's been an 

23           incredible amount of fearmongering going on 

24           with respect to bail reform and a lot of 


                                                                   509

 1           misinformation.

 2                  What is your position as speaker of 

 3           the City Council with respect to the mayor's 

 4           blueprint plan for fighting high levels of 

 5           crime that exist in the city now?

 6                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  I've said 

 7           in the past when it comes to the blueprint, 

 8           number one, I'm glad that there is a 

 9           blueprint.  A blueprint gives us something to 

10           work from and work with.  So it's something 

11           that has to be discussed, something that has 

12           to be reckoned with, with a whole lot of 

13           players, state and city included.  So we 

14           should all have a voice when it comes to the 

15           blueprint, when it comes to working through 

16           it, when it comes to resolving some of those 

17           issues of concern, quite frankly, that some 

18           of us have.

19                  What we don't want to do is go back to 

20           business as usual when it comes to the 

21           treatment of citizens who have been 

22           marginalized in our city.  So I welcome the 

23           conversation, the ongoing conversation 

24           regarding the blueprint to hammer it out and 


                                                                   510

 1           to work through some of those things to come 

 2           to a rightful consensus.

 3                  SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:  Well, I really 

 4           appreciate that.  I think we all must 

 5           remember the reason why we had criminal 

 6           justice reform in the State of New York.  We 

 7           have to remember that we had a two-level, 

 8           two-tier system for those that are wealthy 

 9           and those that are poor and primarily living 

10           in our communities.  And so we can never -- 

11           we should never forget that.  But hopefully 

12           we can get to a consensus that everybody 

13           agrees with.  

14                  But we have to keep in mind always why 

15           we are where we are, why we made the reforms.  

16           We should not have two different levels of 

17           the criminal justice system in the state and 

18           certainly not in the City of New York.  And 

19           so hopefully we can get to a point where 

20           everyone's satisfied and we can stop the 

21           intense fearmongering that's been going on 

22           with our criminal justice reform packages 

23           that we passed a couple of years ago.

24                  That's all for me today.  Thank you so 


                                                                   511

 1           much.  And I really look forward to working 

 2           with you.  And Justin, you look a lot more 

 3           handsome with a mask on.

 4                  (Laughter; cross-talk.) 

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  You've lost 

 6           Senator Sepúlveda.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  And you left 

 8           out a long -- and a long-sleeved jacket.

 9                  (Laughter.)

10                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  So we go to -- 

11           it's been a long day.

12                  We go to the Assembly to Assemblyman 

13           Mamdani.

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  Thank you so 

15           much, Chair.

16                  Thank you so much, Speaker Adams, for 

17           being here with us today.  I appreciate the 

18           time and appreciate the testimony.  And thank 

19           you to everyone else as well -- Finance Chair 

20           Brannan.  

21                  I wanted to share that I was really 

22           heartened by your cosponsorship of 

23           legislation that would force an end to 

24           solitary confinement as well as your comments 


                                                                   512

 1           last month that, quote, we're better than 

 2           that.

 3                  Are you still opposed to solitary 

 4           confinement or punitive segregation, as the 

 5           mayor calls it?  And will you bring a bill 

 6           ending its practice coming to the floor for a 

 7           vote?

 8                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  Oh, I love 

 9           the question.  Thank you very much, 

10           Assemblymember, and it's great to see you as 

11           well.

12                  The answer is that we are still 

13           working through the conditions of that 

14           legislation in the City Council.  

15                  I would prefer to call what is now 

16           called punitive segregation rehabilitative 

17           segregation if we're going to call it 

18           anything, using my psychology background.  I 

19           continue to say that New York is better than 

20           that.  And there is a reason for behavior, 

21           and there are ways to change behavior if we 

22           so choose to do so, if we desire to do so.

23                  So my hope is that we will take a 

24           harder look at the way to prevent certain 


                                                                   513

 1           behavior that is unacceptable, rather than 

 2           continue to punish behavior and think that 

 3           we're going to change the behavior with 

 4           punishment.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  And in your 

 6           hopes for that, do you see that -- does that 

 7           mean edits to the existing bill?

 8                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  It may.  

 9           It means putting our heads together again, 

10           taking another look at it to see where we 

11           come to consensus with the legislation.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  Okay, I 

13           appreciate that.  From one side of Queens to 

14           the other, I can tell you for sure that my 

15           constituents truly do believe in ending the 

16           practice, and appreciate your comments on it.

17                  The second and last question that I 

18           have is that MTA Chairperson Janno Lieber 

19           recently called for the city to fully fund 

20           Fair Fares after the previous mayor and 

21           City Council speaker had left it at only 

22           50 percent funded.  Is it in your plans to 

23           fully fund the program in the upcoming 

24           budget?


                                                                   514

 1                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  That is my 

 2           hope.  Of course we haven't started budget 

 3           deliberations yet, but Fair Fares was on the 

 4           table.  We thought that it was something that 

 5           needed to be done for New Yorkers, and it is 

 6           certainly something that we are willing to 

 7           take a look at.  Again, it's about equity for 

 8           us in the council, and truly Fair Fares is a 

 9           part of that equity.

10                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:  Absolutely.  And 

11           I would very much, you know, urge that be one 

12           of the number-one priorities as we get into 

13           this budget season.  Really do appreciate the 

14           work, the time and the testimony.  

15                  Thank you very much.

16                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  Thank you.

17                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

18                  And our next up is Senator Robert 

19           Jackson.

20                  SENATOR JACKSON:  So I was going to 

21           say good afternoon, but it's like evening.  

22           So good evening, Speaker, how are you?  And 

23           to your leadership team, let me congratulate 

24           all of you and hope you have a successful 


                                                                   515

 1           term.

 2                  I just wanted to touch base with you 

 3           on one of the primary issues of the Campaign 

 4           for Fiscal Equity, and that is small class 

 5           size.  And I asked the mayor earlier does he 

 6           have a plan to ensure that New York City 

 7           students receive small classes, and is he 

 8           planning to work with the state to use the 

 9           funds under the Contract for Excellence 

10           towards this goal of reducing class size.  

11                  And I ask whether or not is that a 

12           major issue for you also, and I would assume 

13           that it is.  But I ask for your answer.

14                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  Senator, 

15           always great to see you, needless to say.

16                  Small class sizes has been an 

17           albatross around the necks of New York City 

18           schoolchildren for a very long time.  It's 

19           something that should be on the front burner, 

20           and we hope to have discussions with the 

21           administration around it.  It is a very 

22           important issue for us.  And yes, we hope 

23           that it will be prioritized with both sides 

24           of City Hall.


                                                                   516

 1                  SENATOR JACKSON:  And also earlier in 

 2           testimonies and under Q&A as far as 

 3           dyslexia -- and supposedly a school is going 

 4           to be built in order to address that major 

 5           issue that impacts so many students in our 

 6           public school system.  And I would just hope 

 7           that the City Council gets right with him and 

 8           moves forward on that as quickly as possible, 

 9           because thousands of children are being left 

10           behind because in fact they can't read at the 

11           level they're supposed to.

12                  But also, I just wanted -- the last 

13           item -- I have only a minute and a second -- 

14           is qualified immunity.  The City Council 

15           passed a qualified immunity bill for cases 

16           that dealt with the Fourth Amendment 

17           violations of unreasonable search and 

18           seizure.  I have a bill to end qualified 

19           immunity where the civil rights of people are 

20           being violated.  And as a result of this, 

21           then they have a right as a result of 

22           violations of law to sue the individual 

23           officers -- whether it's police, fire, 

24           whoever violates their rights -- an 


                                                                   517

 1           opportunity to sue.

 2                  And my question is do you support an 

 3           individual's right, where their rights are 

 4           being violated, to be able to sue in cases of 

 5           qualified immunity?  

 6                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  Well, 

 7           another question that I take very seriously 

 8           and appreciate, Senator.  The issue of 

 9           qualified immunity was passed through my 

10           committee when I was chairing public safety.  

11           New York City is the only jurisdiction in the 

12           country to have passed qualified immunity.  

13           We were hoping that it would be a model for 

14           the rest of the country to take a look at.  

15           We happen to feel that no one's rights should 

16           be violated.

17                  So the answer to that question would 

18           be we've already done it in the city, and we 

19           would hope that it would be taken further.

20                  SENATOR JACKSON:  Thank you.  My time 

21           is up.  Thank you for coming and giving 

22           testimony at this joint budget hearing.

23                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  Thank you 

24           very much.


                                                                   518

 1                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you, 

 2           Robert.

 3                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go to 

 4           Assemblywoman Jackson, three minutes.

 5                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:  Thank you, 

 6           Chair.

 7                  And Justin, I'll make sure to get 

 8           Sepúlveda for his comment, don't worry.

 9                  (Laughter.)

10                  COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:  Thank you, 

11           Chantel.

12                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:  Madam Speaker, 

13           congratulations.  This is our first time in 

14           your position being able to meet again.  So 

15           congratulations.

16                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  Thank you 

17           so much.  Great to see you.

18                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:  Thank you for 

19           all your work.

20                  So my questions are around NYCHA.  And 

21           I'm just wondering, what do you think 

22           City Council is willing to do around NYCHA?  

23           Like what kind of funding do you think is 

24           necessary to restore NYCHA?  


                                                                   519

 1                  And I'm just going to ask all my 

 2           questions because I don't have a lot of time.

 3                  What are your thoughts around public 

 4           banking and how it can be useful in our city, 

 5           especially in the Bronx?  

 6                  Vacant storefronts.  It's a hazard, it 

 7           causes communities to be -- it causes such a 

 8           hazard in our community.  It creates a 

 9           dumping ground, hangout spots.  It creates 

10           litter.  So what are we doing about our 

11           vacant storefronts?  And I know Lower 

12           Manhattan is experiencing this, you know, in 

13           records that they haven't before.  But the 

14           Bronx has been dealing with vacant 

15           storefronts for the longest.

16                  So what are we doing to help with 

17           entrepreneurship in our communities, get 

18           people to own their own businesses and own 

19           their own storefronts so that we can get rid 

20           of these vacant places?

21                  And then of course we're dealing with 

22           gun violence across our city, across our 

23           state, across our nation.  And it's due to 

24           lack of social services, lack of conflict 


                                                                   520

 1           resolution and mental health services, low or 

 2           no employment.  So what do you think the city 

 3           and state -- what do we think we can do in 

 4           conjunction to address these issues?  Yes, 

 5           we're putting money into our Cure Violence, 

 6           but there has to be more that we do because 

 7           we're losing Black and brown bodies every 

 8           single day.

 9                  So those are my questions.  NYCHA, 

10           public banking, the vacant storefronts, and 

11           gun violence.  Thank you.

12                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  Thank you 

13           very much, Assemblymember, for your 

14           questions.  I really appreciate them.  

15                  NYCHA -- NYCHA is a tremendous, 

16           tremendous issue.  It has been a stain on the 

17           performance of New York for decades, as we 

18           all know.  The condition of NYCHA didn't get 

19           there overnight, and it certainly won't be 

20           changed overnight.  This pandemic has 

21           exacerbated issues within NYCHA to levels 

22           that are absolutely unbelievable.  NYCHA's 

23           most recent physical needs assessment 

24           identifies a need of $31.8 billion over their 


                                                                   521

 1           five-year plan, and an additional need of 

 2           $13.4 billion in Years 6 through 20.  

 3                  So the city's allocated $2.9 billion 

 4           of our capital budget to try to address these 

 5           needs, but again, years of deferred 

 6           maintenance has taken a toll on NYCHA and the 

 7           buildings and residents.  The residents, they 

 8           need all the help that they can get, and it's 

 9           going to be incumbent upon us as a city and 

10           state to get that relief to the residents of 

11           NYCHA.  It's going to take a lot.  And I look 

12           forward to continuing conversations around 

13           it, to work on it and to resolve the issues.  

14           It's not going to be easy to do it.

15                  As far as public banks, I support the 

16           issue of public banks, particularly in our 

17           communities of color where we have been the 

18           ones most troubled with our banking 

19           institutions and having issues with banking 

20           institutions -- unable to get loans, unable 

21           to sustain ourselves financially.  

22           Check-cashing places are on pretty much every 

23           corner in communities of color.

24                  So the more we can do to help 


                                                                   522

 1           alleviate our situations when it comes to 

 2           finances, I think the better that we will all 

 3           be off as a city.

 4                  Vacant storefronts.  This is an issue 

 5           that my colleague, former Manhattan Borough 

 6           President Gail Brewer, now Councilmember Gail 

 7           Brewer, has been speaking about for a very, 

 8           very long time.  

 9                  We have to take a very hard look at 

10           the situation of vacant storefronts.  It is 

11           something that is also, you mentioned, in 

12           your community, and our communities in Queens 

13           also.  What are we doing to help small 

14           businesses recoup, what are we doing with the 

15           buildings that are vacant, how can we best 

16           use those areas that will no longer come back 

17           as the former businesses?  There's a lot of 

18           work to do.  

19                  It sounds cliched, but quite frankly 

20           we've got to roll up our sleeves and do the 

21           work.  We're all new coming into this work -- 

22           well, a lot of us are.  You're not.  But some 

23           of us are, in capacities of the work that 

24           we're doing.  So we've got to put our heads 


                                                                   523

 1           together as a new team to work it out.

 2                  And finally, gun violence.  I didn't 

 3           want to --

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Speaker, the 

 5           time has expired a while ago.  And a number 

 6           of these issues are off-budget issues that 

 7           I'm sure we're going to be having continuing 

 8           conversations on.  So I'm going to move on to 

 9           the Senate.

10                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

11           much, Assemblywoman.

12                  Senator Diane Savino.

13                  SENATOR SAVINO:  Thank you, Senator 

14           Krueger.

15                  Good evening, Speaker Adams.  It's 

16           good to see you.  Also good to see my good 

17           friend the chair of the Finance Committee, 

18           Justin Brannan there.

19                  A lot has been covered today, but I 

20           want to focus on something that you brought 

21           up.  And while everyone today that has 

22           testified has talked about how we have a good 

23           budget this time where we're not looking at 

24           giant budget cuts, you were the only one who 


                                                                   524

 1           mentioned that there have been almost 

 2           systemic budget cuts that have been in place 

 3           for the past several years that are 

 4           continuing, particularly in the areas of 

 5           social service.  

 6                  So whether it's the state continuing 

 7           this practice of only providing 62 percent to 

 8           the localities now -- 36 percent, 34 percent 

 9           for social services, shifting further costs 

10           to the Foster Care Block Grant, no longer 

11           paying for Close to Home, which is a program 

12           that works and works so well.

13                  There is one thing, though, that I 

14           would like you and your team to look into and 

15           to press the Governor to change.  When we 

16           enacted the Raise the Age program in 2017, 

17           one of the things the previous governor 

18           insisted upon was a funding formula that was 

19           predicated upon local governments doing two 

20           things, New York City being one of the local 

21           governments.  One, you had to submit a plan 

22           for how you were going to run your program 

23           and utilize the funding every April 1st, and 

24           you had to remain under the 2 percent 


                                                                   525

 1           property tax cap.  And what that essentially 

 2           means is New York City receives no money for 

 3           Raise the Age.  

 4                  Governor Hochul's budget continues 

 5           that practice.  And whether she did it 

 6           intentionally or not or just didn't realize 

 7           it -- I like to think she didn't realize 

 8           it -- I think we need to raise our voices 

 9           against this unfair funding formula.  The 

10           Albany Times-Union just Monday did a report 

11           on Raise the Age, announcing that there was 

12           $800 million available since the program was 

13           originally adopted.  Since then, only 

14           200 million has been distributed statewide.  

15                  These are important dollars that go to 

16           a program that we all believe in, and we all 

17           know that New York City has the largest 

18           number of young people adjudicated through 

19           the Raise the Age program.  And as a former 

20           chair of the Public Safety Committee on the 

21           New York City Council, I know you know that 

22           intimately.  

23                  So if you would -- you and your 

24           colleagues raise your voice that we need to 


                                                                   526

 1           change this funding formula for Raise the 

 2           Age, and let's get some of those dollars back 

 3           into New York City.  And it's time to stop 

 4           the budget cuts that have been put in place 

 5           particularly with respect to social services, 

 6           child protective services, and the Foster 

 7           Care Block Grant.

 8                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  Thank you 

 9           very much, Senator.  I appreciate your 

10           remarks very much.  They really hit home with 

11           me.  And I agree with you.  

12                  And as I did mention, we are still 

13           suffering through those budget losses and we 

14           need to recoup that.  So I appreciate your 

15           remarks very much.  Thank you.

16                  SENATOR SAVINO:  Thank you.

17                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

18                  Assembly?  

19                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We have no more 

20           Assemblymembers.  I think, Senator Krueger, 

21           you wanted to speak?  

22                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Yes, then I might 

23           be the last speaker.  

24                  I also want to welcome you, and Justin 


                                                                   527

 1           as the new Finance chair.  We can all compare 

 2           notes at a later time.  For people who aren't 

 3           from New York City, you might not understand 

 4           that those of us who live in New York City 

 5           and are in a government position, we really 

 6           depend on our interrelationships with our 

 7           City Council members.  I overlap about four 

 8           fantastic Councilmembers, and I couldn't do 

 9           my work without them.  And I'd like to 

10           believe that they might not be able to do 

11           their work without me.  And so there's a real 

12           close-knitness between City Council, Assembly 

13           and Senators, particularly if you come from 

14           the heavily densely populated New York City 

15           where your neighborhoods are always going 

16           through something -- or 10 somethings.  So I 

17           know we will be working together more in the 

18           future.

19                  I also appreciate that Diane Savino 

20           brought up your highlighting the need for 

21           more money for social services and children, 

22           because it was exactly what I was going to 

23           say.  That I've been here long enough that I 

24           remember when New York City had about 


                                                                   528

 1           300 million in AIM every year.  And then we 

 2           took it away, but we said we'll give it back, 

 3           and we lied to you.  And then we said, well, 

 4           maybe we'll give it back to you someday, and 

 5           we lied to you.  And then we've intercepted 

 6           money over the years, as opposed to giving it 

 7           back, and we have cut the formulas in social 

 8           service programs and the formulas of how much 

 9           you have to pay for all these programs.  

10                  So I agree completely that we all need 

11           to loudly say to our new Governor, you know:  

12           This budget is so much better than the last 

13           10 or 11, but we really need to address these 

14           issues for poverty statewide, but 

15           particularly in what we've done to New York 

16           City.  

17                  And I just really have one question.  

18           There was a recent report about the crisis in 

19           the Family Court system in New York and how 

20           things have gotten so out of hand that people 

21           can't even get a chance to deal with custody 

22           issues, child support issues, foster care 

23           issues, endless issues -- unless we increase 

24           the number of judges.  


                                                                   529

 1                  And I'm just curious whether that's 

 2           something that the City Council would agree 

 3           on, that we need to be addressing the 

 4           backlogs in the city's Family Court system.

 5                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  Thank you 

 6           very much, Senator.  It's great to see you as 

 7           well.

 8                  I would definitely agree with that.  

 9           You know, the issues with the courts are 

10           really multifaceted.  The situation with the 

11           judges certainly is something that we need to 

12           take a good hard look at.  What I've seen 

13           over the past few years particularly, seeing 

14           this through the pandemic, through the lens 

15           of the harm of this pandemic, there's been a 

16           tremendous backlog in our court systems, a 

17           lot having to do with not being able to be 

18           before a judge at all, being in remote 

19           situations and being in very -- when folks 

20           are brought in, being brought into cramped 

21           quarters, not being able to have the proper 

22           legal team that they need or legal assistance 

23           that they need as well.

24                  But yes, I would definitely say that 


                                                                   530

 1           we need to take a look at the situation with 

 2           the judges.  We need to do whatever we have 

 3           to do to fortify our court system.  There is 

 4           a tremendous backlog, and if we need to 

 5           fortify our system by getting more judges in, 

 6           then that's what we need to do.  

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Great.  And I 

 8           think that Assemblymember Braunstein already 

 9           brought this up, and it came up quite a bit 

10           today.  I don't agree with the Governor's 

11           proposals on 421-a, but I do agree that the 

12           city and the state need to work together 

13           carefully to craft models that are going to 

14           make sense for you in the city to maximize 

15           affordable housing options and also finally 

16           get your arms around the incredibly 

17           complicated property tax chaos.  Because I 

18           don't think you have a property tax system, I 

19           think you have a property tax chaos system.  

20                  So I'm hoping that the Legislature 

21           will pull certain things out of the budget 

22           with a commitment to work with you and 

23           Mayor Adams and the Governor's office to get 

24           things done correctly.  So I hope that we 


                                                                   531

 1           will be working on those issues together as 

 2           well, but not on such a short time frame.

 3                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  I agree.  

 4           I agree totally, Senator.  That's my hope as 

 5           well.

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Great.  And I'm 

 7           not going to use up the rest of my time, so 

 8           I'm going to thank you very much for being 

 9           with us.  And again, you'll probably go to 

10           night meetings as soon as you leave this Zoom 

11           anyway, so again -- 

12                  (Laughter.)

13                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  You must 

14           be looking at my schedule right now.

15                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  I know our lives.  

16           We'll be here.  Some of us will be here, some 

17           of us will be running around.  But we all 

18           keep working day and night.  That is the 

19           truth about elected officials.  

20                  So thank you very much for your 

21           participation, all three of you.

22                  NYC COUNCIL SPEAKER ADAMS:  Thank you 

23           so much.  

24                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  I did want to 


                                                                   532

 1           ditto that.  Thank you for being here with 

 2           us, and look forward to a continued working 

 3           relationship with you, Speaker Adams, as well 

 4           as all the members of the City Council.

 5                  With that, we're going to move on with 

 6           our speakers.  The next presenter is from the 

 7           New York State Association of Counties, 

 8           NYSAC, Stephen Acquario, executive director.

 9                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  Thank you, 

10           members of the State Legislature.  It's a 

11           pleasure to be with you.  I wish I was in 

12           front of you personally and not through the 

13           video.

14                  I'm joined today with my colleagues 

15           Mark LaVigne, David Lucas, and Ryan Gregoire 

16           from our organization.

17                  The Association of Counties has been 

18           around for 97 years, initially founded in 

19           1925, charged with protecting local 

20           taxpayers, preserving local services, and 

21           safeguarding the quality of life for 

22           New Yorkers.  

23                  The past two pandemic years have been 

24           extraordinary.  And on behalf of the 62 


                                                                   533

 1           counties, I want thank you, the members of 

 2           the State Legislature, for helping our 

 3           collective governments run.

 4                  With the budget that's before you, the 

 5           counties of New York are encouraged by the 

 6           following:  The renewal of local sales tax 

 7           locally, ending the intercept of local sales 

 8           tax to pay for the state's AIM program, 

 9           making sound investments in public health, 

10           and supporting veterans and infrastructure.

11                  There are, however, areas of concern. 

12           The continued intercept of local sales taxes 

13           to support state distressed health 

14           facilities.  Forcing counties to shoulder 

15           private rate increases in preschool special 

16           education -- these may be needed but should 

17           not be funded by local taxpayers.  At the end 

18           of the day, our top priority is keeping local 

19           taxes local.  

20                  Tonight I'd like to draw your 

21           attention to our number-one priority, the 

22           Distressed Health Facilities Fund.  

23           Specifically, we ask that you eliminate the 

24           county's sales tax diversion, Part ZZ of 


                                                                   534

 1           Chapter 56 of the Laws of 2020.

 2                  I'd like to remind you that you 

 3           directed the State Comptroller to divert 

 4           50 million in sales tax from the counties and 

 5           200 million from the city to create a 

 6           temporary fund to help health facilities to 

 7           weather this pandemic if they needed 

 8           additional assistance.  It was never meant to 

 9           be a permanent program.  Why are we making it 

10           permanent?  Nobody has asked for this to 

11           become permanent.  And everyone has said this 

12           is an awful idea, including the mayor of the 

13           City of New York earlier today.

14                  So, so far the state has taken 

15           $500 million in local sales taxes and 

16           provided nothing to local healthcare 

17           facilities.  In fact, the state transferred 

18           250 million to the General Fund on the last 

19           day of the '21 state fiscal year.  Again, 

20           this program is totally unnecessary.  The 

21           state and the federal government have several 

22           distressed hospital pools to address this 

23           very issue.  Supporting distressed health 

24           facilities has always been properly a federal 


                                                                   535

 1           and state responsibility.

 2                  Tonight I hereby call on you, as a 

 3           check and balance, to end this practice 

 4           immediately.  The law should sunset as 

 5           originally enacted.  At the very least, it 

 6           should end when the federal COVID-19 public 

 7           health emergency ends.

 8                  Turning to some other important 

 9           priorities in the Executive Budget for 

10           counties, let me first start by discussing 

11           local sales tax issues.  We support the 

12           proposal to end the practice of diverting 

13           county sales taxes to pay for town and 

14           village AIM funding.  While we're on the 

15           subject, cities, towns and villages -- as you 

16           heard from my peer Peter Baynes, towns, 

17           cities and villages haven't seen an increase 

18           in this state support for over a decade, and 

19           we support that initiative.

20                  Finally, we respectfully ask the 

21           Legislature to support the proposal to grant 

22           permanent local sales tax authority for all 

23           counties and cities consistent with the City 

24           of New York at their existing sales tax 


                                                                   536

 1           rates, up to 4 percent.  

 2                  Now, we're getting into some program 

 3           and policy implementation now in the few 

 4           remaining minutes that I have.  I'd like to 

 5           talk about children and family services.  

 6           something that's not in the Governor's 

 7           budget, a childcare two-county pilot project 

 8           that we would like to ask for your 

 9           consideration.  Similar to what Mayor Adams 

10           asked for this morning in regards to 

11           childcare, we support a two-county pilot 

12           project for Tompkins County and Erie County, 

13           to address a childcare crisis in Erie County 

14           and a childcare desert in Tompkins County.

15                  Specifically, we request 20 million to 

16           supplement Erie County's childcare block 

17           grant allocation and raise market rates.  

18           This will allow Erie to better align the 

19           actual cost of childcare with the OCFS market 

20           rate, increase wages for childcare workers, 

21           and get parents back to work without 

22           decreasing the number of children served.

23                  We also request 20 million for 

24           projects in the pipeline to support in-home 


                                                                   537

 1           care and create new childcare opportunities 

 2           for families in Tompkins County.  

 3                  In prior years the State Budget cut 

 4           state financial support for child welfare 

 5           services and safety net programs.  Senator 

 6           Savino was just talking about this.  We 

 7           strongly encourage the Legislature to restore 

 8           these funding cuts to 65 percent open-ended 

 9           state match for child welfare services -- up 

10           from 62 percent -- and 50 percent for safety 

11           net programs, up from 29 percent.

12                  The budget also includes a resolution 

13           to a long-simmering state legal battle 

14           related to foster care rates settled by the 

15           state in December of 2021.  The settlement 

16           terms require an immediate increase in foster 

17           care rates of 20 percent to 40 percent 

18           upstate and 45 percent in the City of 

19           New York area.  We have concerns about how 

20           this is being funded, as the budget includes 

21           no additional state resources to support the 

22           settlement over what has been provided in 

23           prior years.

24                  The counties are grateful to Governor 


                                                                   538

 1           Hochul for additional community college base 

 2           funding; we support the proposal in the 

 3           Governor's budget.  

 4                  The budget includes a provider rate 

 5           increase that, while necessary, will cost 

 6           county taxpayers an extra $50 million a year 

 7           for costs for preschool special education 

 8           providers.  The counties are asking the state 

 9           to cap preschool costs at the average cost 

10           per county over the last three years and put 

11           that in statute this year.

12                  With respect to economic development, 

13           the counties support the ConnectALL 

14           initiative by Governor Hochul and also the 

15           proposal to waive the Department of 

16           Transportation's right-of-way fees for future 

17           ConnectALL broadband construction projects.  

18           We believe these things should be waived for 

19           all publicly funded broadband projects as 

20           well.

21                  With respect to gaming, last year the 

22           state changed the state tax rate on slot 

23           machines to help commercial casinos stay in 

24           business.  However, this had a negative 


                                                                   539

 1           impact to revenue-sharing with local 

 2           governments.  The counties support the 

 3           Governor's proposal to offset gaming payment 

 4           reductions by increasing this funding from 

 5           7 million to 10 million.  

 6                  The counties also appreciate Governor 

 7           Hochul's leadership and efforts to reach an 

 8           agreement with the Seneca Indian Nation.  We 

 9           appreciate the appropriation in the budget 

10           that's before you to ensure proper payment is 

11           distributed.

12                  With respect to cybersecurity, an 

13           issue talked about by Senator Savino and 

14           other members of the Legislature, the budget 

15           includes an additional 44 million for state 

16           and local cyber defense and response efforts.  

17           The counties appreciate the state's 

18           recognition that this problem requires an 

19           immediate all-hands-on-deck approach.  All 

20           local governments have various needs, and we 

21           shouldn't just throw money at the problem.  

22           We need a well-coordinated program that 

23           raises the baseline level of awareness -- and 

24           more importantly, preparedness -- at all 


                                                                   540

 1           levels of local governments across the state.  

 2                  The three municipal associations, the 

 3           towns, the mayors and the counties, have been 

 4           discussing this funding stream.  We believe 

 5           we're in the best position to provide the 

 6           greatest number of local governments 

 7           effectively to respond to this.

 8                  I want to add and thank Governor 

 9           Hochul that DHSES, the State Board of 

10           Elections, the ITS -- the Office of 

11           Information Technology Services -- they've 

12           been tremendous allies in providing critical 

13           reinforcements, as Mayor Sheehan in Albany 

14           talked about, in this fight against cyber 

15           hackers.

16                  With respect to public health, the 

17           counties applaud the Governor's commitment to 

18           raising the funding for public health.  We 

19           request that the State Budget restore 

20           New York City to 36 percent reimbursement 

21           beyond the base grant under Article 6 state 

22           aid, consistent with the rest of the state.

23                  With respect to lead poisoning 

24           prevention, the state lowered the allowable 


                                                                   541

 1           blood levels in children last year.  That is 

 2           a good policy.  However, to properly achieve 

 3           this, to properly screen these children, we 

 4           need an additional 46 million over the 9.7 

 5           that's currently appropriated.

 6                  We support the 35 million for a 

 7           988 crisis hotline in the State of New York, 

 8           and we ask that you enact that policy.

 9                  I want to call to your attention that 

10           we support some additional legislation on 

11           ensuring that 911 emergency -- grants for 911 

12           systems are appropriated and released to 

13           counties in the year that they are authorized 

14           and appropriated and not three or four or 

15           five years afterwards.

16                  With respect to -- one final issue I 

17           want to make with respect to veterans.  I 

18           want to just thank the Governor and thank you 

19           for your consideration to talk about 

20           additional appropriations for veterans 

21           services.  I hope that the Legislature will 

22           look at this policy very seriously and work 

23           with Governor Hochul about building out 

24           additional veterans service funding.  We 


                                                                   542

 1           haven't had additional veterans services 

 2           funding increases in decades in the State of 

 3           New York for our county-based veterans 

 4           services organizations.

 5                  We support the $7.7 million statewide 

 6           expansion to the Joseph P. Dwyer Peer to Peer 

 7           veterans services program and very much 

 8           support the transportation and infrastructure 

 9           appropriations such as the CHIPS funding, 

10           PAVE-NY, BRIDGE NY, and the new pothole 

11           program.  And the CHIPS bidding threshold 

12           that the Governor so smartly included in her 

13           budget, raising that from the present 

14           $350,000 to $750,000, which would allow local 

15           governments to use local government employees 

16           to do road and bridge projects without going 

17           out to bid, which could cost the taxpayers 

18           more money.

19                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

20                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  Thank you 

21           for this opportunity.  

22                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you, 

23           Stephen.  I did let you get the rest of your 

24           numbers in.


                                                                   543

 1                  First off, Chair Weinstein had to be 

 2           somewhere else, so I will take both sides, 

 3           Assembly and Senate, for the rest of this 

 4           hearing.  I think I can be fair.

 5                  And I will start with Chair Thiele.  

 6           For 10 minutes, yes.

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN THIELE:  Thank you, 

 8           Senator Krueger.  And thank you for starting 

 9           with the Assembly.  That demonstrates your 

10           fairness, thank you.

11                  Steve, it's good to see you, and thank 

12           you for the testimony.  You talked about the 

13           distressed healthcare, the intercept.  And we 

14           spent a lot of time last year talking about 

15           obviously the AIM program and that intercept.  

16                  And, you know, to me the concept is 

17           the same with both of these.  And in one 

18           case, with AIM, we're very happy about that.  

19           The sales tax intercept for something that 

20           should be a state charge is eliminated, and 

21           for the distressed healthcare facilities it's 

22           not.  It just seems to me that, you know, 

23           that's a concept we should be eradicating 

24           from the State Budget where we call upon 


                                                                   544

 1           counties or any other local government to pay 

 2           for this expense.

 3                  I wanted to talk a little bit about 

 4           this, though.  You said, you know, either 

 5           eliminate it completely or when the emergency 

 6           is over.  We don't know when the emergency is 

 7           going to be over.  And it would seem to me 

 8           that if we tied it to that, that could create 

 9           a hardship for counties because you could be 

10           in the middle of a budget year and, you know, 

11           not have the time or the effort to -- to 

12           budget for it or to deal with it.

13                  Wouldn't it be better if we picked a 

14           date certain if we were going to end it this 

15           year?

16                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  Thank you, 

17           Mr. Chairman.  And thank you for all you do 

18           for local governments in the State of 

19           New York and on Long Island, in Suffolk 

20           County.

21                  Yes, without question, a date specific 

22           is the way to go.  It was done in the 

23           midst -- in the early, early days of the 

24           pandemic when it was announced, when it was 


                                                                   545

 1           put in place.  Okay.  We got it that it was 

 2           done.  It was sunset, it's supposed to sunset 

 3           next month, the month after -- April, I 

 4           believe it was supposed to sunset.

 5                  It is a very dangerous precedent, an 

 6           extremely dangerous precedent to use local 

 7           sales taxes for state government obligations 

 8           and purposes.  It's a dangerous precedent.  

 9           We respectfully ask that it be sunsetted date 

10           specific, yes.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN THIELE:  Thank you.

12                  My second question, you had mentioned, 

13           referenced the Governor's proposal with 

14           regard to community college aid, in a 

15           supportive way.  Could you just comment on if 

16           there -- what the trends are as far as 

17           community college enrollment across the 

18           state?

19                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  I will -- 

20           yes, I will.  I'll ask David Lucas to give a 

21           30-second or a minute answer to that.

22                  I just want to say that our enrollment 

23           is trending downwards.  We need to address 

24           that.  Pandemic, things went down; it has 


                                                                   546

 1           been trending down without a floor.  

 2                  Without what you did last year in last 

 3           year's budget, and without this 98 percent of 

 4           last year's funding that's proposed in this 

 5           year's budget, we would see a severe 

 6           reduction in our community college funding 

 7           base aid from the State of New York.  We have 

 8           fixed costs in our buildings, fixed costs 

 9           with our professors and salaries, and other 

10           fixed costs with our community colleges, our 

11           34 institutions across the state.  Having 

12           this state aid at this level with a locked-in 

13           rate is incredibly important.

14                  Dave, do you want to add something 

15           else?  No?

16                  NYSAC FINANCE DIR. LUCAS:  No, I think 

17           you covered it.

18                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  Thank you.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN THIELE:  So just on that 

20           point, perhaps we need to be examining -- 

21           maybe not for the local governments table as 

22           much as maybe higher education -- but this 

23           trend of lowering enrollment on community 

24           colleges maybe is something that we need to 


                                                                   547

 1           also take a look at.

 2                  My last point is there's been a lot of 

 3           talk about criminal justice issues today with 

 4           the upstate cities and New York and with 

 5           NYCOM.  And, you know, I saw that you had in 

 6           your testimony some comments which I thought 

 7           were very important with regard to Raise the 

 8           Age.  I wanted to give you an opportunity to 

 9           just talk about that a little bit.

10                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  Well, 

11           we're very grateful that the Governor has 

12           continued to fully fund Raise the Age -- 

13           Raise the Age funding.

14                  We support the policy when you enacted 

15           it.  The funding of 250 million I believe is 

16           in this budget.  It is flowing.  But I want 

17           to turn to Ryan Gregoire here, our 

18           legislative director, to be more responsive 

19           to your question on Raise the Age.

20                  Ryan.

21                  NYSAC LEG. DIR. GREGOIRE:  Yeah, 

22           Chairman Thiele, it's good to see you again.

23                  And I think, you know, Senator Savino 

24           hit this nail right on the head, and that is 


                                                                   548

 1           that, you know, we need to be delinking the 

 2           property tax cap from an eligibility 

 3           requirement for the full state reimbursement 

 4           of Raise the Age.

 5                  And I just want to expand on something 

 6           that has been addressed, and that is that 

 7           counties and the City of New York are 

 8           responsible for implementing the Raise the 

 9           Age statute, which includes new programs.  

10           But we need the State of New York -- and they 

11           have $250 million set aside in the budget, 

12           but we need that money to flow to the 

13           counties, to flow to the City of New York 

14           when those plans are submitted and when those 

15           programs are stood up.  

16                  There's been a delay in funding 

17           getting out the door, and we will look to 

18           your assistance to help that that gets done 

19           faster.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN THIELE:  Right.  Thank you 

21           very much, gentlemen.  It was a pleasure, and 

22           I appreciate your testimony.  Thank you very 

23           much.

24                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  Thank you, 


                                                                   549

 1           Mr. Chairman.

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

 3           much.

 4                  And our next testifier will be Senator 

 5           Rath.

 6                  SENATOR RATH:  Well, thank you, 

 7           Madam Chair.

 8                  Steve, it's good to see you.  And I 

 9           give you a lot of credit for packing a lot of 

10           information into your 10-minute comments 

11           there.

12                  A few things I want to follow up on.  

13           First and foremost, you had brought up and 

14           touched on briefly broadband, broadband 

15           connectivity and the challenges that 

16           broadband connectivity is bringing to our 

17           counties.  This is not just a rural broadband 

18           issue, this is not just a suburban broadband 

19           issue, it cuts across every single county, 

20           and it's been underprioritized for a long, 

21           long time.  This affects our children, public 

22           safety and our businesses, particularly our 

23           agribusinesses.  

24                  If you could expand a little bit on 


                                                                   550

 1           the broadband challenges and what NYSAC is 

 2           doing to work on that for an advocacy piece 

 3           and what you're looking for out of this 

 4           budget.

 5                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  Well, 

 6           thank you, Senator.  We are working with the 

 7           Public Service Commission.  We're trying to 

 8           get a better understanding of the mapping.  

 9           So the direct answer to your question is 

10           information.  We need the mapping that the 

11           state has been doing.  We had a broadband 

12           program office under the former 

13           administration that stood up a billion-dollar 

14           broadband initiative.  There's been sort of a 

15           disconnect since that ended and a new program 

16           that's been announced by Governor Hochul for 

17           this.  

18                  We are hopeful that this new program 

19           can use the mapping information that we have, 

20           combined with the county planning geographic 

21           information system that we have in the county 

22           planning agencies, that we can better 

23           coordinate the two together.

24                  We saw deficiencies during the 


                                                                   551

 1           pandemic in schools.  We saw that certain 

 2           children were given Chromebooks but no 

 3           ability to access it, only to go to a parking 

 4           lot in a municipal shopping center to try to 

 5           get their children to get the education that 

 6           they so deserve.  

 7                  We have a problem.  We have an 

 8           opportunity with federal ARPA funds to use 

 9           them for broadband outreach.  So we need to 

10           work with the state, together with the local 

11           governments, the federal money, and do the 

12           best job we can.

13                  SENATOR RATH:  Thank you.  It can't 

14           happen soon enough.  And I know exactly what 

15           you're talking about with kids being in their 

16           school parking lots with school buses as 

17           hotspots.  That's shameful.

18                  My next question goes into the 

19           County Wide Shared Services Initiative.  And 

20           the current budget includes 200 million of a 

21           reappropriation for CWSSI to allow plans that 

22           were approved prior and not implemented to be 

23           eligible for matching funds.  Based on the 

24           NYSAC members' experience, is there an idea 


                                                                   552

 1           of approximately how many plans this would 

 2           affect?

 3                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  We don't 

 4           have an idea.  I will say that we asked 

 5           Governor Cuomo -- Governor Cuomo?  We asked 

 6           Governor Hochul to include this language in a 

 7           program that Governor Cuomo had championed.  

 8           He was a big champion of this program.

 9                  We have not seen a lot of savings come 

10           about from this over the years, but we did 

11           ask Governor Hochul to include this language 

12           because we thought -- it came from Western 

13           New York, Senator.  The request came from 

14           Western New York.  We had a county in Western 

15           New York that had a project that was put 

16           together that was not implemented in the year 

17           that it was proposed to be eligible for this 

18           state match in the following year.  

19                  So we asked Governor Hochul and the 

20           Department of State to consider this, they 

21           agreed it was good public policy, and we 

22           think it will bring about a savings, a 

23           matching savings, and others can benefit from 

24           some of these programs that were put together 


                                                                   553

 1           the prior year.

 2                  SENATOR RATH:  Well, I totally support 

 3           this concept, because it works and I've seen 

 4           it firsthand when I was at the county level 

 5           with intermunicipal cooperation and shared 

 6           services, which makes a tremendous amount of 

 7           sense with regards to allocation of resources 

 8           and optimization, if you will, of services.

 9                  My last question is tied to unfunded 

10           mandates.  And certainly this has been the 

11           beck and call from anyone at a county level 

12           for years and years and years.  And Erie 

13           County, as we know, has been suffocated by 

14           unfunded mandates for decades.  And, you 

15           know, 80 percent at one point of our budget 

16           was to pay for unfunded mandates.

17                  So in the 37 seconds that I have left, 

18           if you could touch on what type of unfunded 

19           mandate relief you think is a highest 

20           priority for NYSAC and something we could pay 

21           attention to in this budget.

22                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  Well, we 

23           pay 7 billion in Medicaid, New York City and 

24           the counties.  We pay a billion dollars in 


                                                                   554

 1           the safety net.  We pay $300 million in Early 

 2           Intervention for newborns to 3-year-olds.  We 

 3           pay a billion dollars for 3-to-5-year-olds' 

 4           preschool special education.  We pay 

 5           approaching a billion dollars in child 

 6           welfare.  

 7                  Where does it end?  With the mandates 

 8           that we have, what can we do to begin to 

 9           address these?  I've talked to you over the 

10           years about this, I've talked to Senator 

11           O'Mara over many, many years about addressing 

12           unfunded mandates.  

13                  The one thing that I can ask your 

14           collective consideration is to please defeat 

15           the Distressed Hospital Fund.  That needs to 

16           expire.  That is the one ask, and that's the 

17           one thing that you're going to get requests 

18           from us on unfunded mandates.  We have to 

19           have that expire.

20                  SENATOR RATH:  Thank you, Steve.  I 

21           appreciate all your advocacy.

22                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  Thank you, 

23           Senator.

24                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.


                                                                   555

 1                  We're going to go back to the 

 2           Assembly.  Anna -- I'm sorry, Kelles, excuse 

 3           me.  Assemblymember Kelles.

 4                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  No worries.  

 5           It's been a long day for all of us.

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Apparently.

 7                  (Laughter.)

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  So thank you so 

 9           much, Steve and Ryan.  Wonderful to see you, 

10           of course; this work is very near and dear to 

11           my heart.  

12                  So I just wanted to make one comment, 

13           and a great thank you for your support of the 

14           funding for Erie County and Tompkins County 

15           for childcare.  I just want to add how 

16           incredibly significant this is.  When we say 

17           that these two counties have a critical issue 

18           with respect to childcare, we're referring to 

19           the fact that with -- in Tompkins County, I 

20           can speak for myself, I see Assemblymember 

21           Wallace is also speaking -- that the 

22           situation in Tompkins County is that for all 

23           the children under 6 years old, there are -- 

24           only 30 percent of them have actual slots.  


                                                                   556

 1           We simply do not have childcare for the rest 

 2           of them.  So this is an incredibly critical 

 3           situation.

 4                  And what you are supporting in 

 5           Tompkins County is to create actual slots.  

 6           And the importance for Tompkins County is 

 7           that it is an economic driver in the Southern 

 8           Tier.  There are 15,000 in-commuters into 

 9           Tompkins County, and this is creating 

10           generational problems because of the loss of 

11           people in the workforce.  So thank you so 

12           much for that support.

13                  And I have two questions.  One of my 

14           questions is specific to the permanency in 

15           sales tax authority.  Why is granting this 

16           permanency in sales tax authority so 

17           important for counties, and why should we 

18           include this?  That's the first question.

19                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  So first 

20           of all, I think on the childcare grant pilot 

21           programs, I hope that you can get that done 

22           and across the finish line.  New York is the 

23           Empire State.  We could show the nation how 

24           to address and tackle this very, very 


                                                                   557

 1           critical and important policy for childcare 

 2           providers, helping mothers and fathers go to 

 3           work knowing that their children are cared 

 4           for.  Ryan, who's sitting next to me here, 

 5           can't find a childcare provider --

 6                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Exactly.

 7                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  He's on an 

 8           18-month waitlist, still, with a newborn 

 9           baby.

10                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Exactly.

11                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  With 

12           respect to the permanency of sales tax, this 

13           is an issue -- Erie County -- I know 

14           Assemblywoman Wallace is going to speak -- 

15           was the first.  We had Erie County sales tax 

16           in 1966.  Sixty years ago we did a sales tax.  

17           Yet each -- every two years state lawmakers 

18           have to approve or reauthorize a sales tax 

19           that's been on the books for 60 years.  It's 

20           a waste of administrative time, both locally 

21           for the Erie County Legislature with a 

22           home-rule request and the State Legislature.  

23           It takes precious time between two levels of 

24           government, taxpayer dollars to re-pass 


                                                                   558

 1           legislation that we already know is going to 

 2           be extended.

 3                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  All right, I'm 

 4           going to sneak in my last question for you, 

 5           which is can you speak to the challenges 

 6           counties face with respect to the EMS and 

 7           why -- and what counties are seeing across 

 8           the state and what we should do about that in 

 9           the budget.

10                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  Okay, on 

11           the EMS issue we have a wait line for an 

12           ambulance to come to your emergency, growing.  

13           It's getting longer.  We have a recruitment 

14           problem with volunteers to do this service.  

15           And we have a problem with cost recoupment of 

16           our providers.  The public ambulance fire 

17           districts cannot recoup reimbursement for 

18           services.  We have a crisis.

19                  The Governor put in some pilot 

20           language to do EMS reform.  This is the year 

21           to do it.  We have to help our volunteer 

22           fires better recoup EMS from insurance 

23           carriers.  And we can do a better job in 

24           that, and we ask for your help.


                                                                   559

 1                  Thank you for both questions.

 2                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Absolutely.  

 3           Good to see you.

 4                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  Thank you.

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

 6           much.

 7                  And we have been joined by our chair 

 8           of Local Government, Jim Gaughran.  Hi again, 

 9           Jim.  You have 10 minutes.

10                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Thank you, 

11           Madam Chair.  

12                  Steve, how are you and Ryan?  

13                  So I saw you before, so I think you 

14           probably have been listening to some of the 

15           discussion today about the land use proposed 

16           changes in the budget for accessory dwelling 

17           units and also transit-oriented development.  

18           The communities I represent, you know, the 

19           counties I represent are doing a lot of this.  

20           Suffolk County has a very forward-looking 

21           affordable housing program that they do in 

22           cooperation with the towns and villages.

23                  One of the concerns I have is that -- 

24           and my question is, what are your thoughts on 


                                                                   560

 1           this, or is this something you need to look 

 2           into?  Because there's some question as to 

 3           whether or not it would impact regional 

 4           plans, county plans.  In Suffolk County we 

 5           have a sanitary code that restricts 

 6           development in certain areas, you know, 

 7           because of the need for sewage, to protect 

 8           our drinking water, waterfront revitalization 

 9           plans, et cetera.

10                  So what thoughts do you have on this 

11           proposal?

12                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  Thank you, 

13           Mr. Chairman.  It's great to see you again as 

14           well.

15                  I think that we have to look at this 

16           very carefully.  The association has a 

17           diverse membership from the City of New York 

18           to the 57 counties.  This issue splits 

19           regionally, and I have to defer mostly to our 

20           brothers in municipal government and town 

21           government, village and city who have 

22           predominant zoning authority.

23                  I do think that some of the language 

24           that has been proposed regarding this is 


                                                                   561

 1           necessary to address some of the issues in 

 2           the City of New York.  I heard Mayor Adams 

 3           talk about this today.  It addresses perhaps 

 4           what are illegal accessory dwelling units 

 5           within the City of New York, perhaps that 

 6           flooded during the floods that we saw over 

 7           the summer.  Perhaps there is some 

 8           applicability in the City of New York.  The 

 9           mayor is asking for some of this authority.

10                  But if you look out into Long Island 

11           with its unique aquifer that it has out 

12           there, its unique septic system that it uses, 

13           the contamination problems that we're dealing 

14           with -- PFOA, 1,4-dioxane -- on Long Island, 

15           this is a very -- it cuts a different way on 

16           Long Island --

17                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  I agree.

18                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  -- than 

19           the metro city, where there's not the support 

20           that we're seeing for it.  

21                  We don't think that this should be 

22           enacted this year, but we think it needs to 

23           be looked at.  There are local zoning 

24           policies in place presently that 


                                                                   562

 1           municipalities could best address this issue, 

 2           and I think that we need to really look at 

 3           this carefully.  That's the best I have for 

 4           you at this time.  Our members are discussing 

 5           it, looking at it --

 6                  (Overtalk.)

 7                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Right.  But you 

 8           would be supportive of perhaps funding and 

 9           assistance, turning this into incentives both 

10           for transit-oriented development and ADUs, 

11           perhaps even on a regional basis?

12                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  Without 

13           question the incentives is the best way to 

14           go, as opposed to a top-down, one size fits 

15           all approach across the state for 932 towns, 

16           500-and-some-odd villages is not the right 

17           way to go.  Incentives is the right way to go 

18           to do this.

19                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Okay, and finally 

20           maybe I will just ask you -- you addressed it 

21           a little bit, but if there's you want to add 

22           about the discussion we have had today about 

23           looking at some of the criminal justice 

24           changes we made and seeing if there are some 


                                                                   563

 1           tweaks that perhaps should be considered so 

 2           that we protect and enhance the underlying 

 3           importance of this law, which is to make sure 

 4           we don't have two different systems of 

 5           justice.  But we also feel there's some of 

 6           the practical and real issues, based on data, 

 7           that, you know, may have to be addressed.

 8                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  Thank you, 

 9           Senator.  I guess what I would add to that 

10           discussion today and tonight is that judicial 

11           discretion is the biggest issue that comes to 

12           our attention.  Granting judicial discretion 

13           in particular on risk of flight and public 

14           safety risk is what we're hearing here.  

15                  Also how the mayor of the city 

16           addressed the issue of a public display of a 

17           gun; it should not be a factor as it is under 

18           current legislation.  The carrying of a gun 

19           should be treated the same way, whether the 

20           individual displays it or not, removing it 

21           out of the Family Court.  

22                  Those are the types of issues that we 

23           hear.  The discovery demands, the voluminous 

24           requirements of the new discovery bill have 


                                                                   564

 1           jammed up too many cases.  The information 

 2           we're hearing from our members is urging the 

 3           state to distinguish what is truly necessary 

 4           for discovery, especially in cases where a 

 5           complainant directly brought law enforcement 

 6           to the scene.

 7                  So I think if the Legislature is going 

 8           to take this up, if Governor Hochul is going 

 9           to take this up, we can add significantly to 

10           the debate, to the discussion in a meaningful 

11           way.

12                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Thank you very 

13           much, Steve.

14                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  Thank you, 

15           Mr. Chairman.

16                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

17           much, Jim.  You threw me off by not using 

18           your full 10 minutes.

19                  But we will move along to 

20           Assemblymember Wallace.  Good evening, 

21           Monica. 

22                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALLACE:  Good evening.  

23           Thank you so much, Chair.

24                  And thank you, Mr. Acquario, for your 


                                                                   565

 1           testimony.  I don't think we've had the 

 2           opportunity to meet in person, but I look 

 3           forward to doing that soon.

 4                  I agree with a lot of the comments 

 5           that you've made today.  In particular, I 

 6           want to state that I join your call to 

 7           eliminate the sales tax diversion for 

 8           distressed hospitals, and also to make the 

 9           sales tax permanent for the counties.

10                  I want to drill down a little bit on 

11           the issue of childcare, and I want to thank 

12           you for your comments and for your support of 

13           the pilot program that's being requested for 

14           Erie County.  Just in context, Erie County, 

15           in conjunction with Cornell, did a study that 

16           showed that the true cost of childcare, that 

17           the cost of childcare is $2,000 to $5,000 

18           more per child than the state pays to the 

19           provider.  And that results in essentially 

20           childcare providers losing money for each 

21           child that they take that's subsidized, which 

22           is causing them to not be able to have enough 

23           money to pay their workers, their workers are 

24           working for substandard pay and they're 


                                                                   566

 1           leaving for other jobs, which results in less 

 2           slots available.  And so it has this sort of 

 3           domino effect.

 4                  And the point of the childcare study 

 5           is to say -- the pilot program is to say not 

 6           only that we need to increase the number of 

 7           slots available, but we need to increase the 

 8           rate at which the reimbursement is made by 

 9           the state.

10                  So can you talk a little bit about why 

11           you think that that pilot program will be 

12           helpful to not only Erie County and 

13           Tompkins County, but also all of New York 

14           State in terms of recognizing a way to 

15           perhaps shore up the industry.

16                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  Thank you 

17           for the comments.  And again, I think that 

18           New York can lead the nation in this 

19           discussion and provide a way through this 

20           situation.

21                  We think that a $20 million supplement 

22           to Erie County can help other counties learn 

23           how to best address this.  Erie County is the 

24           largest county outside the City of New York, 


                                                                   567

 1           and we're asking to supplement the county's 

 2           childcare block grant allocation and raise 

 3           market rates, as you mentioned.  

 4                  We believe that this money, through 

 5           the Cornell study, will allow the county to 

 6           better align the actual cost of childcare 

 7           with the Office of Children and Family 

 8           Services market rate, as you have been 

 9           mentioning.  We believe that it can increase 

10           the wages of childcare workers and help get 

11           parents back to work without decreasing the 

12           number of children served.

13                  But we can't get to that until we fund 

14           this program and have Erie County prove out, 

15           with Cornell, this proof of concept here, and 

16           it needs to be a statewide approach.  But we 

17           have to start somewhere.  And, by starting 

18           with projects that are already in the 

19           pipeline in Tompkins County and this 

20           extensive study that Cornell did in 

21           Erie County, that we can best get across this 

22           issue and Cornell can really study the 

23           effectiveness of the pilot programs.

24                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALLACE:  Well, I think 


                                                                   568

 1           it's going to be incredibly valuable to not 

 2           only Erie County and Tompkins County but all 

 3           of New York State, and I want to thank you 

 4           for your support.  And we're going to do what 

 5           we can, Assemblymember Kelles and I and 

 6           everyone, to try to get that across the 

 7           finish line.  So thank you so much.

 8                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  Thank you 

 9           for your leadership.

10                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

11                  Senator Tom O'Mara, ranker on Finance.

12                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Thank you, Senator.  

13           Good evening, Steve.

14                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Give him five 

15           minutes, please.  Sorry, Tom, I'm trying to 

16           get you the correct clock.

17                  Five minutes for Ranker O'Mara.  

18                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Hopefully I won't 

19           even need three minutes, but we'll see.  

20           Steve covered a lot of the territory already.

21                  And Steve, thank you for the 

22           discussion on childcare.  It is critically 

23           important across the state, but there's very 

24           few slots in Tompkins County, and those 


                                                                   569

 1           efforts are drastically needed everywhere.  

 2           So hopefully that's going to be a success and 

 3           we can get that done.

 4                  You talked a little bit about unfunded 

 5           mandates, so I'm not going to get into that 

 6           with you.  You know I've been a champion of 

 7           that for years.  But what's NYSAC's position 

 8           on if we get to mandate relief, say this 

 9           7 billion of Medicaid that's directly on the 

10           property tax rolls, what's NYSAC prepared to 

11           do or agree to to make sure that that comes 

12           off the property tax roll if that mandate's 

13           relieved, that cost?

14                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  Well, 

15           we've talked about that before.  As the state 

16           begins to assume the functions, the property 

17           taxes should go down correspondingly.  It's 

18           right, it's fair.  Our taxes are too high.  

19           Look at the population drain.  We're losing 

20           another member of Congress in the state.  We 

21           need to do everything we can to help keep 

22           people in this state.  By reducing property 

23           taxes, we can do just that.  

24                  We have to begin -- if it's good 


                                                                   570

 1           enough to mandate a policy, it ought to be 

 2           good enough to fund at the state level.

 3                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Absolutely.  Thank 

 4           you.  Thanks for the commitment if we're able 

 5           to make that progress.  And I hope we can.  

 6           You know, we're in a good financial position 

 7           presently.

 8                  The other area I wanted to ask you 

 9           about was 911 and the grant process for those 

10           upgrades and things.  Can you generally 

11           outline for us what's going on with those?

12                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  Yes.  I'd 

13           like to ask Ryan to just weigh in for 

14           30 seconds.

15                  I want to say that, look, we estimate 

16           it's going to cost about $2 billion for 

17           county-based 911, enhanced 911 systems.  

18           Taking video, people have cellphones now, 

19           they're using their cellphones to send video 

20           to 911 systems.  We have to have the 

21           technology to process these emergency 

22           requests.  For crying out loud, this is 

23           people's lives on the line, and we don't have 

24           technology that's been upgraded to meet 


                                                                   571

 1           federal standards.  We're one of a handful of 

 2           states, two or three states, that divert 911 

 3           surcharge funding on our cellphones, on our 

 4           landlines -- we're diverting it at the state 

 5           level and not returning it back to 

 6           county-based 911 service providers.  That's 

 7           outrageous.  We have to stop that.

 8                  But the real request that we have 

 9           right now is that we have two separate 

10           programs that are in place right now, two 

11           funding streams.  And the grant programs that 

12           are coming to the counties, they're coming to 

13           us in a very delayed manner.  Tioga County, 

14           desperately looking to upgrade its system 

15           right now, can't get a grant allocation out 

16           of it.  It's owed this money.  

17                  We think that the year that you as a 

18           legislative body appropriate these funds, 

19           they should also be released to the counties.

20                  Ryan, do you want to add anything else 

21           on that?

22                  NYSAC LEG. DIR. GREGOIRE:  Yeah, the 

23           only thing I would add to Stephen's comments 

24           is the two grant allocations, the PSAP grant 


                                                                   572

 1           and the SICG, State Interoperable 

 2           Communications Grant, have been stagnant 

 3           level funding for many years now.  Ten 

 4           million dollars for PSAP, $65 million for 

 5           SICG -- of which 20 million is this target 

 6           fund that Stephen's mentioning.

 7                  We really need those monies to be 

 8           distributed in the year they're appropriated, 

 9           and the Legislature should look to increase 

10           that funding from the revenue that's 

11           generated already from the 911 surcharge.

12                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Great.  Thank you for 

13           that.  Thank you for the work that you guys 

14           do on behalf of the counties.  And I look 

15           forward to hopefully making some progress on 

16           these.  But one thing I can assure you, that 

17           for the last 10 years no grants have moved 

18           with any expediency whatsoever.  We're hoping 

19           to see a change going forward in that kind of 

20           timeliness -- when things are awarded, that 

21           they actually get paid.  It's been a problem, 

22           and we're looking to improve upon that.

23                  So thank you both very much.

24                  NYSAC EXEC. DIR. ACQUARIO:  Thank you.  


                                                                   573

 1           That's why you appropriate, Senator, and put 

 2           all that work into appropriations.  It would 

 3           be nice to see them actually awarded.

 4                  Thank you.

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 6                  And seeing no other legislators' hands 

 7           up, I also don't want to take up time, I just 

 8           want to thank you very much, Stephen, and 

 9           actually the Association of Mayors and the 

10           Association of Towns coming up.  All three of 

11           your associations are always so valuable to 

12           us as we are trying to sort through an 

13           enormous budget each year, and all three of 

14           you offer perspectives that I think details 

15           what's really going on in local governments 

16           that we might not ever have access to if not 

17           for your hard work and the work of your 

18           staffs collecting up the priorities of all 

19           these different local governments in 

20           New York.  

21                  So I don't have a question tonight.  I 

22           look at your legislation and I learn things, 

23           even when we don't all agree, which is part 

24           of the game.


                                                                   574

 1                  All right, so I want to thank you very 

 2           much, Stephen, for your time and your staff's 

 3           time, and move it to Gerald Geist, the 

 4           Association of Towns of the State of 

 5           New York -- or the State of New York 

 6           Association of Towns, I'm not sure which 

 7           order it's in.  Stephen {sic} Geist for 

 8           10 minutes.

 9                  AOT EXEC. DIRECTOR GEIST:  Good 

10           evening, Senator Krueger and members of the 

11           State Legislature.  Thank you for having the 

12           Association of Towns here tonight.  With me 

13           is our chief legislative counsel, Sarah 

14           Brancatella.  And we welcome this late hour 

15           to address some of our critical concerns 

16           about the State Budget.  

17                  I'm a former town board member of the 

18           Town of North Castle from the County of 

19           Westchester, and I know town issues 

20           firsthand.  I served as a town board member 

21           for 24 years.  The Association of Towns 

22           represents 933 towns across the state, where 

23           9 million of our residents live.  We're 

24           extremely diverse, and we play important 


                                                                   575

 1           roles in providing services to our residents 

 2           each and every day.

 3                  This is the best budget we've seen in 

 4           years from the executive office.  Governor 

 5           Hochul's delivery of her commitment to local 

 6           government is a refreshing change from the 

 7           past administrations.  Her appreciation of 

 8           the importance of local government is clear 

 9           throughout this budget, and her ability to 

10           work with us since she's assumed office.

11                  We want to focus on three issues 

12           today:  AIM, CHIPS, and the ADU and 

13           transit-oriented development proposals.

14                  On AIM, we're thrilled to see that the 

15           program, under the budget proposal by 

16           Governor Hochul, has now been restored to 

17           state funding.  We've been asking for that, 

18           and I know you in the Legislature have heard 

19           our cry over the last couple of years and 

20           have been outstanding in our support of 

21           trying to restore it.  And we thank you for 

22           all your hard work for towns over the last 

23           couple of years.  We know you hear us, you 

24           support us, and it's very important that the 


                                                                   576

 1           Legislature has been a great partner with us 

 2           on that very important issue.

 3                  The thing about AIM, though, it hasn't 

 4           been increased since 2009.  It's really time 

 5           to address the fact that not only is it going 

 6           to be restored to the state funding budget, 

 7           but we need to really increase the funds.  

 8           Why do we need more funds?  Well, everybody 

 9           knows services cost more, supplies cost more, 

10           making sure of the commitments to our 

11           citizens all costs more money, and we can't 

12           do it at the levels of 2009 dollars.

13                  So we're asking the Legislature to 

14           consider an increase -- I think the 

15           Conference of Mayors' Peter Baynes outlined a 

16           very interesting proposal of how to do it and 

17           the rationale behind it, and we would be 

18           supportive of that direction as well.

19                  Highway funding.  We're very excited 

20           that the Governor has restored Extreme Winter 

21           Recovery funding, PAVE-NY and the new pothole 

22           program.  But we feel that, once again, we 

23           need to increase the base.  We need to 

24           increase the base for CHIPS, so -- because 


                                                                   577

 1           these other programs don't increase the base 

 2           we need to show that dollar commitment to the 

 3           roads.  Very critical to help people get to 

 4           work, help kids get to school.  We need to 

 5           make that commitment going forward.

 6                  Now, the one thing we do disagree with 

 7           the Governor on is the accessory dwelling 

 8           unit and transit-oriented development.  You 

 9           know, coming from Westchester, we had to deal 

10           with this issue decades ago.  And many of the 

11           communities, including mine, drafted 

12           ordinances and acted and created units all 

13           over our town, and it happened all over 

14           Westchester.

15                  This top-down legislation does not 

16           take into consideration all the hard work 

17           that's already been done.  In fact, the 

18           failure of the legislation by overriding 

19           local authority -- home rule, if you will -- 

20           is really an anathema to how government 

21           really works.  Those of you in local 

22           government know that we have to wrestle with 

23           the impacts on sewer and water.  We have to 

24           deal with transportation issues.  We need to 


                                                                   578

 1           deal with density, off-street parking.  And 

 2           we need to deal about -- and this is one of 

 3           the things we had to deal with with this law 

 4           in my town, is the impact of sending -- how 

 5           many more kids would go to schools and the 

 6           impact on the schools if we increased more 

 7           density units.

 8                  The fact that this legislation doesn't 

 9           have any of this collaborative effort, 

10           doesn't call for any of this kind of 

11           discussion leaves it, in my opinion, not 

12           worthy of consideration at this time.  The 

13           fact that it's even in the budget really 

14           doesn't account to give this opportunity for 

15           people to discuss the important issues this 

16           legislation is.

17                  Overriding home rule, overruling local 

18           regulations, overruling master plans, 

19           planning boards, zoning boards, how these 

20           things factor into a community and community 

21           input, is really the wrong direction on this 

22           issue.  This is a really important issue, and 

23           the Association of Towns applauds the 

24           discussion, but we feel there's a better way 


                                                                   579

 1           to do it which includes a collaborative 

 2           effort with towns, the villages, the cities 

 3           and the State Legislature working together to 

 4           come up with a comprehensive, well-thought- 

 5           out plan, which this legislation doesn't do.

 6                  We believe we should incentivize ADUs.  

 7           How do you incentivize?  For example, you 

 8           could commit dollars to sewer and water 

 9           programs for each community so that they 

10           would have the ability to take in additional 

11           units.  That would be one way to incentivize 

12           this. 

13                  But we need to think about this from a 

14           whole town, a whole state perspective.  Just 

15           because if you look at the transit 

16           development plan, it talks about bus 

17           stations -- but you really need to understand 

18           if the bus runs once a day or it runs five 

19           times a day to get people to work.  Those are 

20           the kind of issues we had to wrestle with on 

21           the local level.  But all this is missing 

22           from this proposed legislation.

23                  And I said this before.  Water and 

24           sewer is critical.  The legislation talks 


                                                                   580

 1           about impacts on septic, but the community 

 2           has to be able to accept the new population 

 3           coming in, because our systems are crumbling 

 4           and aging and we need to not only repair and 

 5           keep them going, but we have to improve those 

 6           systems.  And this legislation doesn't 

 7           account for that.

 8                  As I've always said, local government 

 9           is the best way to address and hear the 

10           complaints of the public, and their concerns, 

11           and this legislation attempts to override 

12           that ability.  So we would like to see this 

13           legislation taken out of the budget and 

14           restructured so to give everybody a better 

15           opportunity to weigh in on this very 

16           important issue, but not by overriding 

17           home rule.

18                  Now, a couple of other things in the 

19           state budget.  We're very supportive of the 

20           Governor's proposal on the interest rate on 

21           judgments.  Nine percent doesn't make any 

22           sense.  We need help on that front. 

23                  Local ethics reform, we shouldn't do a 

24           piecemeal approach to Article 18 but, rather, 


                                                                   581

 1           a comprehensive review of the entire program.

 2                  Code enforcement.  The provisions in 

 3           the state budget on code enforcement once 

 4           again are piecemeal and don't take into 

 5           account how to address the problems.  We need 

 6           to come up with a plan to strengthen code 

 7           enforcement, but not to penalize or have 

 8           standards that aren't able to be measured to 

 9           determine whether code compliance programs 

10           are working or not.

11                  And the last thing I would like to say 

12           is we want to increase the CHIPS threshold, 

13           very important, as I've heard that testified 

14           today.  And then on the revenue from the 

15           vacation rental industry, we want to make 

16           sure that those dollars go to all levels of 

17           government wherever those properties are 

18           situated.

19                  I know the hour is late, and I know 

20           you might have lots of questions, but I would 

21           like to say thank you once again for the 

22           support of towns that you've always given us, 

23           and thank you for hearing our concerns on 

24           this year's state budget.  Thank you very 


                                                                   582

 1           much.

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

 3           much.

 4                  And we're going to start again with 

 5           the Assembly chair, Fred Thiele.  Are you 

 6           there, Fred?

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN THIELE:  Sorry, had to 

 8           unmute there.

 9                  Thank you very much, Chair Krueger, I 

10           much appreciate it.  

11                  And Gerry, it's good to see you.  

12           Thank you for your testimony.

13                  Let me start with AIM again.  You're 

14           presenting a proposal with about a 2 percent 

15           increase, basically.  The NYCOM presented a 

16           bit more of a robust proposal of taking the 

17           cost-of-living adjustment from -- during the 

18           freeze, which would be more, and then they 

19           talk about a formula.  

20                  I don't want to get into what the 

21           amount of money should be.  That's going to 

22           be a budget negotiation, and you both come 

23           out with the concept that there should be an 

24           increase, and many of us in the Legislature 


                                                                   583

 1           agree with that after all these years. 

 2                  My question to you, though, is that if 

 3           there is an increase, you know, there was 

 4           some talk from NYCOM about a formula.  Do you 

 5           think it should just be a percentage across 

 6           the board increase, or do you have interest 

 7           in a formula?  And if you do, what do you 

 8           think should be in that formula?

 9                  AOT EXEC. DIRECTOR GEIST:  Well, I 

10           agree with Peter Baynes when he talked about 

11           that the AIM, how it's structured currently 

12           is -- it hasn't been revised in decades.  And 

13           I just want to point out, for example, some 

14           of the inequities of the current AIM 

15           legislation.  Hempstead, which has 800,000 

16           residents, approximately, gets one-quarter of 

17           the amount of dollars that the City of Albany 

18           gets.  So it's not based just upon 

19           population.  

20                  So I would look at a new stream of 

21           funding for future dollars, because it might 

22           be more equitable based upon towns with 

23           larger populations -- which a lot of them are 

24           out on Long Island, as you know, Fred.  And 


                                                                   584

 1           so we want to make sure that there's better 

 2           equity on those types of dollars going 

 3           forward.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN THIELE:  Okay.  And, you 

 5           know, a lot of conversation today about the, 

 6           you know, zoning provisions that are in the 

 7           budget.  I'm not going to repeat what I said 

 8           earlier with NYCOM.  I obviously do not think 

 9           that this is the right approach and, you 

10           know, think that an incentive-based 

11           approach -- basically a carrot, not a stick.  

12           You know, we all recognize that there's the 

13           need for additional housing.  But, you know, 

14           it seems to me -- and you mentioned some 

15           incentives as far as infrastructure and 

16           things of that nature.  Are there any other 

17           incentives?  Could you see maybe tax credits 

18           or grants?  How would you feel about those 

19           kinds of things?

20                  AOT EXEC. DIRECTOR GEIST:  I think -- 

21           yeah, so like when we mentioned one 

22           incentive, I would also -- would think that 

23           incentives would also be necessary for grants 

24           to the towns for code enforcement and to make 


                                                                   585

 1           sure that all these new units are safe.  

 2                  And we need to make sure that we can 

 3           provide adequate parking for these units.  

 4                  So I think, you know, we need to have 

 5           a robust discussion about what possibilities 

 6           are out there to incentivize and make this 

 7           work.  But the way it's written, top down, 

 8           doesn't make any sense.  It just overrides 

 9           the ability of local governments to function.

10                  ASSEMBLYMAN THIELE:  Yeah, this 

11           approach is definitely a mandate, kind of 

12           imposes requirements on local governments 

13           that they have to comply with.  You know, I 

14           think a lot of what we've heard today about 

15           it, you know, an alternative approach is an 

16           incentive-based, a collaborative approach 

17           between state and local governments with 

18           incentives.

19                  I did a little bit of research on this 

20           and, you know, other states have done various 

21           things here.  I just wanted to get kind of 

22           your impression about this.  I think the 

23           State of Connecticut has -- they did 

24           something with accessory dwelling units, but 


                                                                   586

 1           they had an opt-out provision for local 

 2           governments.  I'm not sure if it was they 

 3           could opt out completely or there were 

 4           aspects of the law they could opt out of.

 5                  What would you think about having 

 6           opt-out provisions for something like this?

 7                  AOT EXEC. DIRECTOR GEIST:  Well, I'm 

 8           only going to speak for myself and my own 

 9           experience on this issue.  I don't think you 

10           should allow opt-outs.  If we're really 

11           interested in supporting and endorsing the 

12           idea of creating more affordable housing 

13           units, I don't think you can allow 

14           communities to just opt out.  There's got to 

15           be a metric, there's got to be a measure.

16                  But I think it's a goal that we should 

17           strive for, but we just can't do it in this 

18           type of manner.  And I think this really 

19           needs some further study, a lot of input from 

20           towns and villages and cities on the issues 

21           that they confront so we can come up with an 

22           appropriate bill.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN THIELE:  Gerry, thank you 

24           very much.  Sarah, good to see you also.  


                                                                   587

 1           Thank you very much.

 2                  AOT EXEC. DIRECTOR GEIST:  Thank you, 

 3           Fred.

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you, Fred.

 5                  And next up is Jim Gaughran, the chair 

 6           of Local Government in the Senate.

 7                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Thank you, 

 8           Madam Chair.  

 9                  And good to see you, Sarah.  And 

10           Gerry, good to see you as well.

11                  Just following up on Fred, I don't 

12           think it would take us a long time to have to 

13           figure out how to convert this to an 

14           incentive program, because there are so many 

15           municipalities in the state, including some 

16           on Long Island and in my district, that are 

17           already doing this.  

18                  So maybe we should look at putting -- 

19           trying to see if we can get some funding into 

20           the budget for an incentive program that 

21           towns and villages and cities could apply 

22           for, you know, and begin it maybe even as a 

23           pilot project, and then work very quickly to 

24           try to develop what the program would be. 


                                                                   588

 1                  What would you think of something like 

 2           that?

 3                  AOT EXEC. DIRECTOR GEIST:  So, 

 4           Senator, thank you again for your support of 

 5           the towns and your interest in local 

 6           government.

 7                  I want to say two things, and then I'm 

 8           going to let Sarah comment on another portion 

 9           of it.

10                  A lot of towns already have these laws 

11           and have been acting under these guidelines 

12           for decades.  And I think there should be 

13           some consideration of a grandfather in 

14           whatever legislation is down the road on this 

15           subject.  Because if towns have been doing it 

16           effectively and working it out in a 

17           reasonable, rational way, why should they be 

18           imposed upon when they've already been doing 

19           it right?  It sort of reminds me of --

20                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  But if they wanted 

21           to do more of it, if we gave them an 

22           incentive in some funding --

23                  AOT EXEC. DIRECTOR GEIST:  Then you 

24           could incentivize, right.


                                                                   589

 1                  Just as we had this whole discussion 

 2           on shared services years ago about towns have 

 3           been doing it for generations, we should 

 4           remember those kind of discussions as we look 

 5           into this.

 6                  Sarah, do you want to comment on what 

 7           else the Senator says?

 8                  AOT LEG. DIR. BRANCATELLA:  Sure.  I 

 9           just wanted to bring up the fact -- and I 

10           don't think it's been raised a lot -- that 

11           the issue of affordable housing and accessory 

12           dwelling units doesn't just impact more 

13           densely populated areas, it also is something 

14           that is very important to our rural 

15           communities.  Especially with seasonal 

16           workers, it's a very important issue.  So one 

17           of the reasons why a top-down approach 

18           doesn't necessarily work is because, as Gerry 

19           mentioned, our towns are so remarkably 

20           diverse.  

21                  Assemblymember Thiele, you mentioned 

22           doing an opt-out.  Even if you had a standard 

23           local law at the state level, or standard 

24           rules at the state level that towns could opt 


                                                                   590

 1           out of, while that certainly is an 

 2           improvement over a mandate, the top-down 

 3           approach doesn't account for the nuances and 

 4           particular concerns of each community.

 5                  And Senator Gaughran, I had listened 

 6           to some of your questions that you presented 

 7           to Peter Baynes and the Conference of Mayors, 

 8           and I have some thoughts on those if you're 

 9           interested in hearing them.

10                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Sure.

11                  AOT LEG. DIR. BRANCATELLA:  In 

12           particular, you asked about the idea of what 

13           "ministerial" means.  And I had that flagged 

14           from my lawyer's -- putting my lawyer's hat 

15           on.  

16                  I had a similar concern about that, 

17           because in the land-use context you often 

18           hear about things allowed as a matter of 

19           right.  That's why you have special-use 

20           permits.  But even something that's allowed 

21           as a matter of right you're still allowed to 

22           impose conditions on, and that's just not the 

23           case involved with this legislation.  So I 

24           had a lot of concerns with the term 


                                                                   591

 1           "ministerial."  

 2                  And you had also asked about the 

 3           possibility of other laws and other 

 4           protections, whether they would apply to 

 5           this.  I just wanted to point out some 

 6           language on page 170 of ELFA, in particular 

 7           subdivision 8.  And it says that no policy or 

 8           regulation other than the local law 

 9           authorized shall be the basis for denying a 

10           permit.  And while there are some allowances 

11           for taking into consideration watershed 

12           protections and wetland protections, I think 

13           the fact that it is so focused on the health 

14           and safety of the occupant, instead of the 

15           community, is a cause of concern.  And I 

16           think that some of the legislation -- the 

17           local protections that you had mentioned, 

18           they potentially would not be able to be the 

19           basis for rejecting an ADU permit.  Because 

20           it is -- there is no discretionary review, 

21           the local government doesn't really have a 

22           lot of discretion -- or any discretion, 

23           really -- to deny a permit.  And I think that 

24           that is particularly problematic with some of 


                                                                   592

 1           the things that you raised.

 2                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Okay, thank you, 

 3           Sarah.

 4                  And finally, I just want to talk about 

 5           potholes.  You know, Governor Hochul is now 

 6           very proudly allowing people to refer to her 

 7           as Governor Pothole with this $1 billion in 

 8           the budget, which I fully support and think 

 9           is a great idea.  But I also think the 

10           implementation of that is something that 

11           we're probably going to have to develop, you 

12           know, after it's put in the budget.  

13                  So I would, you know, love to have 

14           your thoughts either now or in the future on 

15           how that could be implemented.  Because I 

16           could see this in effect as providing 

17           municipalities, you know, with some 

18           additional sort of CHIPS money, because there 

19           are many roads in certain municipalities that 

20           are just one pothole after another.  And that 

21           maybe there can be a grant program or an 

22           application process that this could be used 

23           for that purpose as well.  Just wanted your 

24           thoughts.


                                                                   593

 1                  AOT EXEC. DIRECTOR GEIST:  We would 

 2           welcome the opportunity to give some 

 3           suggestions, Senator Gaughran, as to the 

 4           pothole program.  We're very desirous of 

 5           this, but we also believe, as we stated, that 

 6           we need to increase the base on CHIPS.

 7                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Right.  Okay.  But 

 8           also a lot of the money is first going to 

 9           have to go to fix the Long Island 

10           Expressway -- I'm going to use my regional 

11           hat here -- because we've got a lot of them.  

12                  (Laughter.)

13                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Thank you.

14                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Are you done, 

15           Jim?

16                  SENATOR GAUGHRAN:  Yes, I am, thank 

17           you, Madam Chair.

18                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

19           much.

20                  I'm now going to jump to 

21           Assemblymember Otis.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Thank you, Senator.

23                  And Gerry, nice to see you.

24                  AOT EXEC. DIRECTOR GEIST:  Good to see 


                                                                   594

 1           you, Steve.

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  You do bring a lot 

 3           of history to this world, so the Association 

 4           of Towns is very lucky to have you.

 5                  Earlier I had asked your colleague 

 6           from NYCOM about cybersecurity, and 

 7           especially for towns and smaller towns I 

 8           think they are very much soft targets.  What 

 9           are you hearing from your members in terms of 

10           the challenges of cybersecurity protection?  

11           Who are they using, who are they going to, if 

12           anybody, to try and play a little defense?

13                  AOT EXEC. DIRECTOR GEIST:  Well, the 

14           best strategy is really to be prepared.  

15           Right?  And we're so happy, as Peter Baynes 

16           mentioned earlier, about the NYMIR program, 

17           which has been a tremendous leader here, and 

18           I have to thank Steve Acquario, Mark LaVigne 

19           at the Counties Association for helping take 

20           the lead on coming up with a cybersecurity 

21           program to help local governments get ahead 

22           of it, plan.  Because this is an area of real 

23           concern for our members.

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  And are you 


                                                                   595

 1           hearing -- without going into details, you 

 2           probably also get alerted when somebody's 

 3           been attacked and they're in a more 

 4           challenging situation.  How often are you 

 5           getting those reports?

 6                  AOT EXEC. DIRECTOR GEIST:  Well, 

 7           thankfully we don't get them every day, 

 8           Assemblyman, but it's certainly on our radar 

 9           watch.  We do hear about it, and we try to 

10           act on it as quickly as we can.

11                  But as I said, we're trying to be 

12           proactive through that NYMIR program, and we 

13           are getting our message out.  And it's nice 

14           to see the three associations working on a 

15           way to get municipalities to prepare and 

16           defend themselves on this very important 

17           issue.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Gerry, thank you.  

19           Nice to see you.  Sarah, thank you as well.

20                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

21                  And I believe our closer is Senator 

22           Tom O'Mara.

23                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Thank you, Senator.

24                  Good evening, Gerry, Sarah.  Thanks 


                                                                   596

 1           for hanging in there.

 2                  You know, I'm glad to hear you say 

 3           that you see this budget as the best budget 

 4           in ten years or so, which for local 

 5           governments I agree with you, it is.  Because 

 6           the prior administration policy was to I 

 7           think bleed dry local governments out of 

 8           existence.  So I'm glad we're seeing some 

 9           turning of the corner here to improve that.  

10                  And I just -- it's unfortunate that 

11           the budget is tarnished with this ADU zoning 

12           issue, with taking the -- infringing upon 

13           home rule.  Which I think zoning should be 

14           one of the strongest areas for home rule and 

15           what a community wants, doesn't want, how 

16           they want it done.  So I'm with you on that.

17                  I'm with you on the CHIPS base aid, 

18           that I'd rather have the increased money in 

19           the CHIPS base aid.  But the pothole fund is 

20           great.  Do we have the details yet on the 

21           pothole fund?  Is that going to be 

22           distributed similar to the CHIPS formula, by 

23           road miles?  Or do you know?

24                  AOT EXEC. DIRECTOR GEIST:  Sarah, do 


                                                                   597

 1           you know?  I'm not sure it's been --

 2                  AOT LEG. DIR. BRANCATELLA:  I think 

 3           some of that information is still 

 4           forthcoming.  We don't have the details on 

 5           that.

 6                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Okay.  And do you 

 7           know, is that separate funding because it's 

 8           pothole funding?  Is that going to have some 

 9           different criteria, maybe, on the longevity 

10           of what the repair is?  Because the capital 

11           projects under CHIPS have to have a certain 

12           duration, expected life span.  Is this for 

13           maybe shorter-term projects, just patching 

14           things up?

15                  AOT LEG. DIR. BRANCATELLA:  That was 

16           the impression that I got from Governor 

17           Hochul's comments on it, that it was 

18           literally pothole repair, not necessarily 

19           long-term infrastructure investments.  So our 

20           understanding currently is that it's for 

21           shorter-term bandaids.

22                  SENATOR O'MARA:  I certainly hope 

23           that -- well, I'd rather have it rolled into 

24           the base aid for CHIPS, as we've said.  But I 


                                                                   598

 1           hope it at least is going to get fairly 

 2           distributed along the lines of the CHIPS 

 3           program, because frankly I think that that's 

 4           one of the fairest funding distribution 

 5           methods we have in state government.  You 

 6           know, per mile.  So no matter, you get what 

 7           you have mileage-wise.  So that's critical.

 8                  One last thing I wanted to ask you 

 9           about.  My understanding is that the federal 

10           pandemic aid is -- flows not directly to 

11           towns, it's coming through the state to the 

12           towns.  Can you tell us how that process is 

13           going?  Are those funds flowing?  Are they 

14           getting held up?  You know, because the prior 

15           administration, you know, their philosophy 

16           was to hold onto every nickel as long as they 

17           possibly could and not send it out the door.

18                  So is this federal pandemic aid 

19           getting to you guys in a timely fashion?

20                  AOT EXEC. DIRECTOR GEIST:  Senator, 

21           before I turn it over to Sarah, who's -- 

22           another moniker that she wears in the office 

23           is she's the ARPA person in our office -- I 

24           do want to -- I think we have to thank 


                                                                   599

 1           Senator Schumer for taking the leadership in 

 2           the U.S. Senate, for making sure that monies 

 3           didn't go directly to the state, but created 

 4           a vehicle to go down directly to the 

 5           localities.  And Senator Schumer and his 

 6           staff deserve a tremendous amount of credit.

 7                  Sarah, you want to fill in the rest of 

 8           the question -- the answers to the question?

 9                  AOT LEG. DIR. BRANCATELLA:  Sure.

10                  I have to commend the Division of 

11           Budget on working with local governments and 

12           distributing ARPA funds.  Out of the 

13           933 towns in New York State, I've only heard 

14           of one town having an issue, and it was due 

15           to a secretarial mistake.  

16                  So the Division of Budget has been -- 

17           over the summer I talked to them almost every 

18           day, and they were truly phenomenal at making 

19           sure that these funds were distributed 

20           immediately and in a timely fashion to towns.  

21           So we were really pleased to work hand in 

22           hand with them, and I would be remiss not to 

23           acknowledge their significant efforts and the 

24           great work that they did.  And I know that 


                                                                   600

 1           our towns are extremely thankful for that.

 2                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Well, I'm very glad 

 3           to hear that.  That's a nice note to -- well, 

 4           not quite finish our night off, but we're 

 5           getting there.

 6                  So thank you both very much.

 7                  AOT EXEC. DIRECTOR GEIST:  Thank you, 

 8           Senator.

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

10                  With no other hands raised by 

11           legislators, I'm going to excuse you.  Gerry, 

12           thank you and your staff for coming in 

13           tonight.  Appreciate all your hard work.

14                  And I am going to move us along -- 

15           just double-checking a Zoom message to me.  

16           "I'm on the next panel, seem to be having a 

17           Zoom issue.  Would someone help me?"  I'm 

18           assuming somebody took care of that 

19           message -- yes, good, because you're here.

20                  All right, I'm going to just start 

21           with -- this is the part of the hearing where 

22           we move from government reps to people who 

23           asked to testify, and so the rules change a 

24           little bit.


                                                                   601

 1                  We have the full panel testify in a 

 2           row for three minutes each.  Then we open it 

 3           up to any legislators who want to ask the 

 4           panel questions for a total of three minutes 

 5           each, and your ranker and chair status are no 

 6           longer relevant.

 7                  So let's start with Empire State 

 8           Indivisible, Danielle Brecker, co-lead 

 9           organizer; League of Women Voters, Laura 

10           Bierman, New York State executive director; 

11           New York State Election Commissioners 

12           Association, Dustin Czarny -- and there's a 

13           much longer name, Democratic caucus chair and 

14           Onondaga County Board of Elections 

15           commissioner.  And then Brennan Center for 

16           Justice, Joanna Zdanys, senior counsel.

17                  Let me see, is there anyone else on 

18           this panel on the next page?  No.

19                  So if you'd start, please, in that 

20           order, with Danielle from Empire State 

21           Indivisible.  Good evening.

22                  MS. BRECKER:  Hi, hello.  Can you hear 

23           me?

24                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Yes.


                                                                   602

 1                  MS. BRECKER:  So thank you for the 

 2           opportunity to testify in support of funding 

 3           the Statewide Public Financing Program in the 

 4           full year 2022-2023 budget.  

 5                  I am Danielle Brecker, co-lead 

 6           organizer of Empire State Indivisible.  The 

 7           Indivisible movement is predicated on holding 

 8           our elected leaders to account.  Empire State 

 9           Indivisible is dedicated to policies that 

10           amplify the voices of New Yorkers in our 

11           democracy.  We have been working with other 

12           grassroots groups in the Fair Elections for 

13           New York Coalition since 2018.

14                  Empire State Indivisible has canvassed 

15           across our state, asking New Yorkers to 

16           support policy and candidates.  We have seen 

17           candidates with bold policy platforms 

18           struggle to raise money, stay in the race, 

19           reach voters and get elected.  We have seen 

20           the devastating and stifling influence of 

21           corporate and special interest money on our 

22           communities and communities across the state.  

23                  The New York Small Donor Public 

24           Financing Program is key to changing this.  


                                                                   603

 1           We are pleased to see funding for the program 

 2           in Governor Hochul's Executive Budget.  We 

 3           support the inclusion of 10.5 million for the 

 4           administration of the program and 10 million 

 5           for future matching funds in the 

 6           Executive Budget.

 7                  Today we ask the Senate and Assembly 

 8           to increase the appropriation for future 

 9           matching funds to $40 million, to be in line 

10           with the projected cost of the first 

11           legislative cycle of the program.  We ask 

12           that the program be as strong and as bold as 

13           the many diverse candidates it will uplift.

14                  It is important that the program 

15           receives adequate funding this year -- to 

16           build confidence in the program for both 

17           candidates and voters.  The potential 

18           benefits of this program cannot be 

19           overstated.  Public financing can help stymy 

20           the disproportionate influence of large 

21           corporate and special interest donors on our 

22           democracy.  The weight and influence of these 

23           corporate and special interest donations are 

24           at odds with the solutions we need for our 


                                                                   604

 1           communities.  

 2                  Public financing is key to fostering a 

 3           multiracial democracy.  Folks from all walks 

 4           of life can run and win without needing to 

 5           know or depend on donors who can write big 

 6           checks.  Together with voting reforms, this 

 7           policy brings more people into the democratic 

 8           process.  We do not have to look beyond the 

 9           new New York City Council to see how well it 

10           can work.

11                  Funding this program now is an 

12           investment in our democracy's future.  We 

13           commend the budget lines in the Executive 

14           Budget and strongly urge you, the 

15           Legislature, to increase the funding for 

16           future matching funds to 40 million.  

17                  Thank you again for the opportunity to 

18           testify in support of this important reform.

19                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

20           much for testifying.

21                  And now the League of Women Voters.

22                  MS. BIERMAN:  Thank you.  Thank you 

23           for the opportunity to testify today.  I'm 

24           Laura Ladd Bierman, executive director of the 


                                                                   605

 1           League of Women Voters of New York State.  

 2           The league is a nonpartisan, grassroots 

 3           organization with a mission to educate the 

 4           public to become engaged members of their 

 5           communities and informed voters.

 6                  We believe voting should be made as 

 7           easy as possible for all New Yorkers, and we 

 8           greatly appreciate the tremendous gains that 

 9           have been made in the last couple of years in 

10           making voting more accessible.  And we 

11           applaud the Legislature for enacting these 

12           reforms.  However, many of these reforms 

13           still have not been sufficiently funded, 

14           particularly with voter participation this 

15           year expected to significantly increase from 

16           last year.

17                  The expansion of early voting last 

18           year with more poll sites now required, and 

19           extended hours of the poll sites, was 

20           great -- but only if funding is provided.  We 

21           did not want these reforms to become unfunded 

22           mandates on the counties.  The reappropriated 

23           funds for county boards of elections must 

24           remain in the budget, and increased if 


                                                                   606

 1           possible, for early voting options to be 

 2           available for all voters in all counties.  

 3                  The current outdated process used by 

 4           New York State to collect, process, send, 

 5           receive and count absentee ballots is slow, 

 6           cumbersome and costly.  Reforms for absentee 

 7           voting are greatly needed -- but again, only 

 8           if funded.  Ballot tracking systems could 

 9           give voters confidence that their ballot was 

10           received and counted.  Ballot drop boxes can 

11           make voting easier and safer for their 

12           ballots.  Return postage on ballots could 

13           delete a cost to voters to vote.  This is a 

14           big election year, and many voters now prefer 

15           to vote by absentee ballot.  We don't want to 

16           discourage that.

17                  Two final comments on the budget.  The 

18           league supports the proposal for poll sites 

19           on college campuses, but asks for expansion 

20           to include primary elections and early voting 

21           in addition to the general election day.  

22                  The league also applauds the proposed 

23           elimination of the 25-day statutory voter 

24           registration deadline.  Many voters become 


                                                                   607

 1           engaged in the election toward the end of the 

 2           election season, but by then it's too late 

 3           for them to register and vote.

 4                  Elections are often the last item on 

 5           the list when it comes to county budgets, and 

 6           many county boards operate with limited 

 7           funds.  The league urges the Legislature to 

 8           seriously consider the cost of new election 

 9           improvements when introducing their proposed 

10           budgets, and to consider setting up a yearly 

11           fund specifically for enhanced election 

12           reform like early voting and absentee voting.

13                  New York State is finally in the 

14           21st century with regard to voting, but we 

15           are still funding our elections as if they're 

16           being conducted in the pre-technology era.  

17           Recent media articles have noted how hard it 

18           is for voters to vote in New York State as 

19           compared to other states, which is a surprise 

20           to many New Yorkers.  In order to realize the 

21           enhanced goals of the legislative leaders and 

22           Governor, we urge a serious funding 

23           commitment to the State Board of Elections 

24           and county boards of elections be enacted.


                                                                   608

 1                  Thank you for your time today.

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

 3           much.

 4                  And our next testifier is Dustin 

 5           Czarny.

 6                  MR. CZARNY:  Thank you very much for 

 7           having me.  I have submitted written 

 8           testimony which will go into detail on what 

 9           I'm going to sum up here just a little bit.

10                  However, I want to thank the New York 

11           State Legislature for the many reforms that 

12           they've given us.  Yes, it has provided us 

13           with a lot more work at our county boards of 

14           elections -- however, this is good work and 

15           work worth doing.

16                  We do note, though, that this next 

17           year we face a huge increase in work with the 

18           expansion of early voting and the moving of 

19           the canvassing of absentee ballots to 

20           pre-Election Day counts -- both reforms that 

21           I personally and my caucus support.  However, 

22           without state funding and state aid, we can 

23           see a disparity of resources going from 

24           county to county, as local county legislators 


                                                                   609

 1           often do not fund the boards of elections at 

 2           equal rates from county to county, leaving 

 3           citizens at the whim of frugal budgets and 

 4           oftentimes boards of elections being treated 

 5           as the bastard stepchildren of county 

 6           government.  

 7                  So we do ask that the New York State 

 8           Legislature consider the funding levels that 

 9           you gave us in 2019 when you had us implement 

10           early voting and electronic poll books.  

11           There was a $10 million Aid to Localities 

12           fund and a $25 million capital fund.  If that 

13           was enacted and added to the Governor's 

14           budget -- which is a great budget for the 

15           State Board of Elections but leaves the 

16           county boards of elections out of the mix -- 

17           if those funds are enacted by the 

18           Legislature, as it has traditionally been the 

19           role of the Legislature to add those budgets, 

20           we can purchase high-speed scanners.  

21                  We can bring in workers to help with 

22           the absentee canvasses to fulfill the goal of 

23           having these votes counted by Election Night.

24                  We can have electronic poll books on 


                                                                   610

 1           Election Day.  Many counties have not rolled 

 2           those out and only have them on early voting 

 3           because that's all the money that they had to 

 4           implement those.

 5                  We could replace some of our aging 

 6           precinct scanners.  These machines -- some of 

 7           our counties have had the same ImageCast 

 8           scanners since 2007, and they're ending their 

 9           useful life.

10                  We need state help to be able to 

11           amplify the resources at these local boards 

12           of elections to perform the reforms that you 

13           have tasked us to give.  So please consider 

14           adding these budget lines into the budget.  

15           And yes, please consider making these a 

16           permanent solution for funding elections in 

17           New York State.

18                  Thank you.

19                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

20           much, Dustin.

21                  And our last testifier on this panel, 

22           Joanna Zdanys?  Help me, sorry.

23                  MS. ZDANYS:  It's Zde-nees.  

24                  Thank you.  Good evening, 


                                                                   611

 1           Chairs Weinstein and Krueger and members of 

 2           the Legislature.  My name is Joanna Zdanys, 

 3           and I'm senior counsel at the Brennan Center 

 4           for Justice.  I appreciate the opportunity to 

 5           testify in support of funding for our 

 6           elections and voting infrastructure in this 

 7           year's budget.

 8                  With malicious and racist attacks on 

 9           the franchise across the country, New York's 

10           leadership in fostering a stronger and more 

11           inclusive democracy has never been more 

12           urgent.  

13                  We're grateful to the members of this 

14           body for championing policies that expand 

15           access to the vote and break down barriers to 

16           the political process.  One of those is the 

17           state's new Small Donor Public Financing 

18           Program, which will launch this November.  

19           It's the strongest and most ambitious 

20           response in the nation to Citizens United.

21                  The Brennan Center works on this issue 

22           nationally, and I can tell you that 

23           jurisdictions across the country are watching 

24           to see if New York can implement its program 


                                                                   612

 1           successfully.  A modest investment now will 

 2           help ensure that the program lives up to its 

 3           promise of giving constituents donating only 

 4           modest amounts a more important role in 

 5           fundraising.

 6                  We're pleased to see funds in the 

 7           Executive Budget for both program 

 8           administration and for a portion of the 

 9           matching funds that will be distributed to 

10           participating candidates.  But like my 

11           co-panelist Ms. Brecker, we urge the 

12           Legislature to increase the appropriation for 

13           matching funds from 10 million to $40 million 

14           this fiscal year, which is approximately half 

15           the amount projected to be disbursed the 

16           program's first cycle.

17                  It's common practice to build up 

18           program funding well in advance of the first 

19           election year that candidates use public 

20           financing.  Prominent programs like those of 

21           Connecticut and Montgomery County, Maryland, 

22           are just two examples.  So providing adequate 

23           funds now will build candidate and voter 

24           confidence in the program's solvency and help 


                                                                   613

 1           campaigns plan their fundraising strategies 

 2           using small contributions from constituents.

 3                  Another important reform, automatic 

 4           voter registration, is going to launch in 

 5           January 2023, and we support continued 

 6           funding to build out the state's online voter 

 7           registration system, which is critical to 

 8           AVR's success.

 9                  And outside of the budget, New York 

10           can lead where Congress has failed by 

11           adopting the John R. Lewis Voting Rights Act 

12           of New York, which if enacted would be the 

13           strongest voting rights law in the country to 

14           fight race-based voter suppression.  And to 

15           fully deliver on these reforms, this 

16           Legislature must support improvements in 

17           elections administration.  There are simple 

18           yet effective solutions that are available 

19           now to promote better voter service.  And of 

20           course we also support more state funding for 

21           local boards of elections to help address the 

22           persistent resource challenges that they 

23           face.

24                  Thank you for your continued 


                                                                   614

 1           leadership in strengthening our democracy.  

 2           We stand ready to assist, and I am happy to 

 3           answer any questions you may have.

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you all.

 5                  And I'm looking for raised hands.  And 

 6           I saw Assemblymember Jacobson first.

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  Thank you, 

 8           Madam Chair.  And I want to thank all the 

 9           panelists for being in favor of expanding 

10           democracy, expanding the vote.

11                  As I know Commissioner Czarny knows, 

12           because I rely on his organization and the 

13           local commissioners as a resource, I pushed 

14           last year for additional funding and I was 

15           successful, and I'm doing the same this year.

16                  We've done incredibly great things -- 

17           early voting, being able to correct absentee 

18           ballots.  Now we're going to be able to start 

19           counting earlier, so we look like every other 

20           state in the nation to know our results on 

21           time.

22                  But unfortunately all these things 

23           take money.  And believe it or not, not every 

24           commissioner is in favor of these reforms.  


                                                                   615

 1           So it's important that we do it on a state 

 2           level as far as the funding, and I'll be 

 3           pushing for it.  And I hope that you will 

 4           also continue to push, not only on the state 

 5           level but on the local level.  Because as you 

 6           know, people -- politicians do respond, and 

 7           it's important that you make your voice 

 8           heard.

 9                  So I stayed to the end for this 

10           hearing because I wanted to be here for this 

11           group, just to let you know that you have an 

12           advocate here.  Letters going out in the next 

13           day or two for the budget, and we have to 

14           keep pushing because there's more to do.  But 

15           it does take money.

16                  So I don't have a question because I 

17           know that you all -- what you're all in favor 

18           of, and I just want to thank you for hanging 

19           in there and for advocating for our 

20           democracy.  And voting should be simple and 

21           easy; doesn't mean it isn't expensive.

22                  So thanks.

23                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you, 

24           Assemblymember.


                                                                   616

 1                  I see Robert Jackson's hand up.  

 2           Senator Jackson.

 3                  Did we lose you, Robert?  I know 

 4           Senator Jackson had to go home today because 

 5           he tested positive for COVID.  And I'm 

 6           wondering whether he's been frozen out.

 7                  THE MODERATOR:  We are asking him to 

 8           start video and unmute, but so far -- 

 9                  (Overtalk in Spanish.)

10                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  That's not Robert 

11           Jackson's voice.  Who's speaking in Spanish?  

12           Will you go on mute?

13                  (Spanish interruption continues.)

14                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Hi, Robert 

15           Jackson.  I see you and I'm hearing a woman 

16           speaking to us in Spanish, and yet it's not 

17           you.

18                  SENATOR JACKSON:  Am I up, Liz?

19                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  You are up.

20                  SENATOR JACKSON:  I'm sorry, I'm just 

21           juggling -- I'm juggling with some other 

22           people.

23                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Can you turn the 

24           other person off for a moment?


                                                                   617

 1                  SENATOR JACKSON:  Yes.  I think I did.

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Good, okay.

 3                  SENATOR JACKSON:  Well, first I want 

 4           to thank you all for coming in and staying 

 5           the course of the entire hearing.  And I 

 6           wholeheartedly support all of the funding for 

 7           early voting, for absentee voting, and for 

 8           ethics reform.  I mean, understanding that 

 9           this is democracy and we must be able to make 

10           sure democracy continues, where people can 

11           vote no matter what.  And people can register 

12           up to the last day if they have not 

13           registered.  As long as they're telling the 

14           truth, they're citizens, and they can vote.  

15           That's what it's about.  This is democracy.

16                  I don't want to do anything to clamp 

17           down people's right to vote and exercise 

18           their right to vote.  And so I say to all of 

19           you, my colleagues who may disagree with me 

20           and those that are agreed, our job is to make 

21           sure that we represent the people, the people 

22           of New York State.  This is the Empire State.  

23           Let's take the lead to ensure that no matter 

24           who you are, no matter if you're black, 


                                                                   618

 1           white, yellow, green or blue, whether you're 

 2           rich or you're poor, that your rights are not 

 3           being violated by suppressing their right to 

 4           either register to vote or to change their 

 5           party designation within a certain period of 

 6           time or to vote by absentee without an 

 7           excuse, and deal with ethics reform.  

 8                  And so I support wholeheartedly this 

 9           panel, and especially the League of Women 

10           Voters, and moving forward and coming and 

11           saying what needs to be said.  And as you can 

12           see, it's almost at the end of an entire 

13           day's hearing.  But I'm still here pushing 

14           for it.  So thank you, thank you, thank you.  

15           As someone that has been registered to vote 

16           way back when I turned 18 -- and, you know, 

17           I'm exercising my right to speak up for 

18           people's right to vote and not to be 

19           suppressed and denied the right to vote for 

20           whoever they want to vote for.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Do you know that 

22           the Senator's nickname among his Senate fans 

23           is Still in the Fight.  Senator Still in the 

24           Fight.


                                                                   619

 1                  Thank you, Robert.

 2                  SENATOR JACKSON:  Thank you, Madam 

 3           Chair.

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Take care of your 

 5           health, please, okay?

 6                  SENATOR JACKSON:  I will.  Thank you.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 8                  Tom O'Mara, did you have your hand up 

 9           or you're just in the box so I'm seeing you?  

10           You don't have your hand up.  

11                  All right, I have one question for 

12           Dustin.  You were making a wonderful pitch 

13           for the need for additional money to the 

14           county boards of elections.  Is there a 

15           number?

16                  MR. CZARNY:  I believe the funding 

17           that this Legislature provided in 2019 is a 

18           good model to do again this year.  And that 

19           was $10 million in Aid to Localities, which 

20           allowed us to have more flexibility bringing 

21           staffing and offset the cost of early voting, 

22           and then $25 million in capital funding, 

23           which will allow us to replace aging voting 

24           systems, bring in high-speed scanners for 


                                                                   620

 1           absentees, as well as some counties needing 

 2           to expand their electronic poll book fleet to 

 3           be able to move those to Election Day to be 

 4           able to accomplish all the reforms.

 5                  I believe those two items from 2019 

 6           would be of use this year.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Okay, so you 

 8           never got the 25 million capital, right?

 9                  MR. CZARNY:  We did.  We spent it.

10                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  You did.

11                  MR. CZARNY:  Yeah.  Many of us spent 

12           it, and many small counties have already 

13           exhausted that.  And they were not able to 

14           expand their electronic poll books to 

15           Election Day because they just didn't have 

16           enough money -- it was only for early voting.

17                  Now that we're going to count 

18           absentees before Election Day, we need these 

19           electronic poll books on Election Day to make 

20           sure people don't vote twice.  And also we 

21           need high-speed scanners to be able to do 

22           those counts for absentees while we're also 

23           running early voting and Election Day voting.

24                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Got it.  Thank 


                                                                   621

 1           you.

 2                  I want to thank all four of you for 

 3           your testimony here tonight.  I also just 

 4           want to give a shout out to my chair of 

 5           Elections, Zellnor Myrie, who could not be 

 6           here but wanted to be, and who is very aware 

 7           of all of the proposals that all four of you 

 8           have made.

 9                  So with that I want to thank you very 

10           much for your participation and for staying 

11           so late with us.  And I'm going to call up 

12           the last panel, the New York Land Bank 

13           Association -- or it could be the Association 

14           of New York Land Banks.  I'm never quite sure 

15           the way it's written out -- Adam Zanako --

16                  MR. ZARANKO:  Zaranko.

17                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  Thank 

18           you, thank you.  

19                  -- and Immigrant ARC, Camille Mackler, 

20           executive director.  Noah Kazis from the 

21           Furman Center could not be with us tonight, 

22           but his testimony is included in the package.

23                  So why don't we start with Adam.

24                  MR. ZARANKO:  Thank you, Chair.  And 


                                                                   622

 1           thank you to all the legislators for the 

 2           opportunity to testify today.  And thanks for 

 3           staying to hear about New York's land bank 

 4           program. 

 5                  So I'm Adam Zaranko.  I have the honor 

 6           of serving as the president of the New York 

 7           Land Bank Association, and we focus on 

 8           fostering the growth of the state's land bank 

 9           program, which is among the largest and most 

10           active in the country in terms of 

11           effectiveness and number of land banks.  

12                  I'm also here today as someone that's 

13           kind of on the ground and in the trenches.  

14           I've served going on six years as the 

15           executive director of the Albany County 

16           Land Bank, which is one of the largest in the 

17           State of New York, and it's the one that 

18           helps remove some of those red X's on the 

19           properties that surround the Capitol and the 

20           things that I'm sure you see when you come 

21           visit.

22                  You heard a lot today -- and I 

23           actually listened to all of it because I 

24           wanted to hear from our mayors and our local 


                                                                   623

 1           government leaders.  And we heard a lot about 

 2           vacant and abandoned properties as a 

 3           challenge.  Just about everyone is talking 

 4           about affordable housing as a challenge in a 

 5           lot of communities in the state, I think.  I 

 6           don't think there is a community in the state 

 7           that isn't struggling with one or both of 

 8           those two items.

 9                  And so land banks are here to be part 

10           of that solution, and we're a proven and 

11           effective way to do that.  New York's land 

12           bank program was actually established in 

13           response to the 2008 foreclosure crisis, and 

14           we're now 26 in the state and we serve over 

15           70 percent of the state's population outside 

16           the City of New York.  We're not just focused 

17           on rural issues.  We heard from a lot of 

18           upstate mayors from cities today, but also a 

19           lot of our rural areas are served by land 

20           banks.  Actually most of the land banks serve 

21           rural areas and cities that are countywide or 

22           multiple counties that come together.

23                  I put a lot of the numbers in our 

24           packet, what we've done.  But essentially 


                                                                   624

 1           we're facing kind of a double whammy of 

 2           challenge.  At a time when the foreclosure 

 3           and eviction moratoriums have expired and 

 4           we're facing maybe unprecedented levels or a 

 5           wave of vacant and abandoned properties, tax 

 6           foreclosures and otherwise in terms of 

 7           mixture -- residential, nonresidential for 

 8           the first time -- to wash over our 

 9           communities, state land banks have ran out of 

10           funding and our funding source has primarily 

11           been Attorney General bank settlement funds 

12           from the 2008 settlements for financial 

13           misconduct the Attorney General secured, and 

14           land banks were part of the initiatives to 

15           help rebuild neighborhoods from that.

16                  That money is fully drawn down, and so 

17           our request is to have simply a continuation 

18           of that program, upwards of $100 million 

19           allocated towards land banks so we can form 

20           our multiyear plan and continue our work 

21           around everything we do, from reclaiming 

22           vacant properties from acquisitions, building 

23           stabilizations, new construction of 

24           affordable housing, vacant lot cleanups, 


                                                                   625

 1           assemblage of sites, demolitions of abandoned 

 2           structures.  

 3                  It's all in the testimony I submitted.  

 4           Many of you are now familiar with land banks, 

 5           which is a great sign.  But we need the 

 6           funding to continue the work we're going to 

 7           do or the burden is going to slide back onto 

 8           local governments and taxpayers, which as you 

 9           heard is already a challenge for a lot of 

10           communities.  And so we don't want to slide 

11           and undo the work we've done.

12                  Thank you for listening, and thank you 

13           for your continued partnership.

14                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

15                  And Camille?

16                  MS. MACKLER:  Good evening, Senators 

17           and Assemblymembers.  Thank you so much for 

18           the opportunity and for sticking it out with 

19           us till the end.

20                  My name's Camille Mackler.  I'm the 

21           executive director of Immigrant ARC.  We're a 

22           relatively new organization spun out of the 

23           New York Immigration Coalition just in the 

24           last two years.  We're a coalition of over 


                                                                   626

 1           80 organizations and professional 

 2           associations that provide legal services to 

 3           immigrants here in New York and throughout 

 4           the state.

 5                  And I'm here tonight because we are 

 6           asking that New York State increase its 

 7           funding for legal services to immigrants -- 

 8           this is like the immigration legal 

 9           services -- to $15.3 million from the 

10           existing $10 million that it's been at since 

11           about 2017.  And we're also asking for an 

12           additional $3 million to be allocated from 

13           economic development funds for our Afghan 

14           refugees who are arriving in the state since 

15           last summer.

16                  New York State has led the country in 

17           investments for legal services -- many thanks 

18           to many of you who are here tonight -- and we 

19           want to continue that leadership.  The 

20           reality is that the continuing policies of 

21           the last many years and the delays and 

22           problems caused by the pandemic mean that 

23           most of our providers are still having 

24           maximum caseloads.  Many of them cannot take 


                                                                   627

 1           on new cases as the need continues to grow.  

 2                  Immigrants, as you all know, have been 

 3           at the forefront of the pandemic response and 

 4           are a real economic engine for our state.  

 5                  There is no guaranteed right to 

 6           counsel in immigration, even for somebody who 

 7           is detained or even for somebody who faces 

 8           potential permanent exile from the 

 9           United States.  There is a right to a 

10           competent attorney at no expense to the 

11           government only if somebody is facing 

12           deportation, but we know that sometimes 

13           providing an attorney to apply for 

14           immigration status, as someone may be 

15           eligible under current laws, means that they 

16           will end up in deportation proceedings in the 

17           first place.  And so both types of funding 

18           are critical.

19                  We know from studies that have been 

20           done that detained immigrants are four times 

21           more likely to be released from detention, 

22           11 times more likely to actually apply for an 

23           immigration benefit and to defend themselves 

24           from deportation charges.  Twenty-two percent 


                                                                   628

 1           of detained immigrants and 16 percent of 

 2           never-detained immigrants will successfully 

 3           defend their cases if they are able to be 

 4           represented by counsel.

 5                  I also want to briefly touch on the 

 6           Afghan refugees who are coming to our state.  

 7           New York State expects over a thousand 

 8           families mainly in upstate New York.  They've 

 9           been -- refugees have been an incredible 

10           economic driver for upstate New York for a 

11           very long time, and the rest of our state.  

12           Because of the chaotic nature of the 

13           evacuation, these individuals are actually in 

14           very precarious legal positions and don't 

15           have permanent ability to stay.  And these 

16           are not legal needs that refugee resettlement 

17           agencies, who are doing yeomen's work working 

18           with these communities, can handle.  These 

19           are very specific complex cases.  

20                  And so we see this as an economic 

21           investment and ask for an additional 

22           $3 million from economic funds to provide 

23           legal representation to this very specific 

24           population.  


                                                                   629

 1                  Thank you.

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  I'm sorry, I was 

 3           on mute.

 4                  I was saying Assemblymember Steve 

 5           Otis.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Thank you.

 7                  Camille, thank you for that 

 8           presentation.  And I don't have a question 

 9           for you, but I'd say I've been to a number of 

10           meetings -- and you glossed over it a little, 

11           but the statistic of outcome difference 

12           whether someone has an attorney or does not 

13           have an attorney is mind-boggling.  

14                  And so the Legislature has gotten 

15           money to some of the groups around the state 

16           that provided these services in the past, and 

17           hopefully we can do more this year.  But it 

18           is just shocking that differential.  And it 

19           just shows you that if people had an 

20           attorney, their rights would be vindicated.

21                  So thank you for your good work.

22                  Adam, question for you.  So the 

23           settlement funds are out.  And I'm wondering 

24           whether there are either some other kinds of 


                                                                   630

 1           litigation settlement fund kind of animal 

 2           that's out there that maybe we could be 

 3           tapping into that already exists, or are 

 4           there federal funds in the infrastructure 

 5           bill or the Rescue bill that we should be 

 6           looking into as a way of New York State 

 7           applying for money and then directing it 

 8           towards the important work that you're doing?

 9                  MR. ZARANKO:  Yeah, thank you for your 

10           question.

11                  So we're not aware of any other 

12           settlement funds.  But unfortunately we've 

13           learned that banks around real estate and 

14           mortgages, zombie properties, sometimes do 

15           repeat some of their actions that harm 

16           communities.  But we don't budget off of 

17           that.  

18                  On the state side and the local side, 

19           we're very aggressively pursuing ARPA funds, 

20           which if you look at the final Treasury 

21           guidance, there's been very clear guidance 

22           issued thanks to some of our national 

23           partners that help land banks, that support 

24           the work that land banks do.  And it's 


                                                                   631

 1           delineated, some of that's in the testimony I 

 2           submitted.  

 3                  So that is a source of funding that we 

 4           think we can get into neighborhoods very 

 5           quickly, especially partnering with the 

 6           state, because we have the infrastructure to 

 7           get into the communities and apply the funds 

 8           in eligible ways.

 9                  On the federal side, we've been 

10           working with Senators Gillibrand and Schumer, 

11           and land banks are partnering with other 

12           states and their Senators.  The housing, the 

13           second part of the Build Back Better Act with 

14           the housing, the one with the childcare in it 

15           and the housing, there's a special -- last I 

16           heard, there's around $3 billion that would 

17           be eligible directly to be received by 

18           entities like land banks, like land trusts, 

19           the on-the-ground community development 

20           groups, where we're not competing against 

21           municipalities and towns, villages and cities 

22           and other entities for that money.

23                  But that bill hasn't been passed yet, 

24           obviously.  We're hoping very much that it 


                                                                   632

 1           will be.

 2                  So those are the funding sources that 

 3           we're aware of, aside from state funds, 

 4           budget funds.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Well, I'd say if 

 6           there's state agencies that should be 

 7           applying for federal funds that deal with 

 8           this issue, to get that to our Ways and Means 

 9           and Finance staff people so that we can try 

10           and connect the dots for you.

11                  MR. ZARANKO:  Okay.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  So thank you for 

13           the testimony.

14                  MR. ZARANKO:  Thank you.

15                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

16                  And I think our last hand for the 

17           evening is Assemblymember Jacobson.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  Thank you.

19                  I just want to comment about the land 

20           banks.  We have been very successful in the 

21           City of Newburgh with our land bank.  

22           Poughkeepsie now -- which I also represent -- 

23           is implementing it.

24                  The problem -- and why it's great for 


                                                                   633

 1           small cities is that most places the cities 

 2           have to pay the school taxes after they take 

 3           back the property.  So that can be a big 

 4           drain on the local city.

 5                  The problem in Newburgh now is all the 

 6           easy properties or relatively easy properties 

 7           have been bought.  Now you have some that are 

 8           really bad.  And so that you get a case of 

 9           diminishing returns.

10                  So I think something has to be worked 

11           out on that, so I'll let you try to figure it 

12           out, sometime after this hearing, on what we 

13           can do on that so that it makes sense.  It's 

14           not always as great as it sounds, but it was 

15           very helpful in those situations.  But once 

16           the little boomlet is over, then you're still 

17           left with these properties.  And so there's 

18           still zombies, but they're zombies on the 

19           land bank's watch.

20                  So that's it.  We've been here a long 

21           time.  Thank you.  Thank you, Madam Chair, 

22           and everybody else for hanging in there.  And 

23           also to both Madam Chairs, I should say.

24                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  That's okay.  


                                                                   634

 1           I'll tell the other Madam Chair who had to 

 2           leave.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  I'm sure I'll see 

 4           her tomorrow on one of them, anyway.

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  No.  As I close 

 6           down this hearing I am going to actually, 

 7           first off, thank very much the last two 

 8           testifiers for being with us this evening and 

 9           for staying so late to testify.  I'm going to 

10           thank all my colleagues who are still with 

11           us.  

12                  I'm officially going to close down the 

13           hearing on local governments for 2022, remind 

14           you we're not having a budget hearing 

15           tomorrow -- don't show up, Jonathan -- but we 

16           will be having our next budget hearing on 

17           Monday, starting at 11:00 in the morning, and 

18           that will be on mental health and 

19           OPWDD-related issues.

20                  So again, thank you all to my 

21           colleagues, thank you all to the staff of the 

22           Assembly and the Senate who also are all 

23           behind the scenes making sure somehow we get 

24           through each of these days.


                                                                   635

 1                  Have a good night.  Sleep well.

 2                  (Whereupon, the budget hearing 

 3           concluded at 7:58 p.m.)

 4

 5

 6

 7

 8

 9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24