Public Hearing - February 26, 2016

    


       1      NEW YORK STATE JOINT SENATE TASK FORCE
              ON HEROIN AND OPIOID ADDICTION
       2      ----------------------------------------------------

       3
                   TO EXAMINE THE ISSUES FACING COMMUNITIES
       4
                IN THE WAKE OF INCREASED HEROIN AND OPIOID ABUSE
       5

       6      ----------------------------------------------------

       7
                                         Knights of Columbus
       8                                 1305 86th Street
                                         Brooklyn, New York 11228
       9
                                         February 26, 2016
      10                                 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m.

      11

      12      PRESIDING:

      13         Senator Martin J. Golden, Sponsor

      14         Senator Terrence Murphy, Chair

      15         Senator George Amedore, Jr., Co-Chair

      16

      17

      18

      19

      20

      21

      22

      23

      24

      25







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       1
              SPEAKERS:                               PAGE  QUESTIONS
       2
              PANEL I                                   27       66
       3
              Bridget G. Brennan
       4      Special Narcotics Prosecutor
              New York City
       5
              Brian McCarthy
       6      Commanding Officer
              NYPD Narcotics Division
       7
              Theodore Lauterborn
       8      Captain, Narcotics, NYPD
              Borough of Brooklyn South
       9
              Questions from the audience                        88
      10
              PANEL II                                  96      106
      11
              Dr. Hillary Kunins
      12      Assistant Commissioner, Bureau of
                   Alcohol & Drug Use, Prevention,
      13           Treatment, and Care
              New York City Department of Health
      14           and Mental Hygiene

      15      Questions from the audience                       118

      16      Stephanie Campbell                       123      129
              Director of Policy
      17      Friends of Recovery New York

      18      PANEL III                                132      155

      19      Donna Mae DePaolo
              President & CEO
      20      Ann Marie Pirada
              Director of Operations for
      21           new detox center
              Resource Training & Counseling
      22           Center

      23      William Fusco
              Executive Director
      24      Dynamic Youth Community, Inc.

      25







                                                                   3
       1
              SPEAKERS (Continued):                   PAGE  QUESTIONS
       2
              PANEL III (continued)
       3
              Karen Remy                               161      183
       4      Chief Program Officer
              Turning Point Community
       5           Services Brooklyn

       6      Josephine Beckmann
              District Manager
       7      Community Board 10

       8
              PANEL IV                                 173      183
       9
              David Bochner
      10      Vice President
              Cornerstone Treatment Facilities
      11           Network

      12      Kristin Miller
              Director
      13      Corporation for Supportive Housing

      14      Question from the audience                        192

      15

      16

      17

      18

      19

      20

      21

      22

      23

      24

      25







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       1             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Welcome to our Heroin Task

       2      Force and -- discussion and hearing, and giving the

       3      opportunity for our communities and our community

       4      leaders to see what we're doing, and how we're doing

       5      it, across this state to help families and to help

       6      those that are addicted, and to cut down on the

       7      amount of deaths that we're seeing across this

       8      state.

       9             Just in the city -- just right in this

      10      community we've lost about 6 kids in the last

      11      8 to 9 weeks, from the areas of about 17 years of

      12      age up to 35 years of age.

      13             As a member of this State Senate Task Force

      14      on Heroin and Opiate Addiction, I want to thank my

      15      co-chairs for coming down, one from Albany, and both

      16      of these guys came from Upstate New York.  And

      17      I want to thank them for coming.

      18             You know, we just got out of Albany late last

      19      night, and they had a whole host of things to do

      20      this morning, and they still managed to get down

      21      here, and I want to thank them, and that's

      22      Terrence Murphy from the 40th District, and

      23      George Amedore, Jr., from the 46th District which

      24      is up in Albany.

      25             Give them a round of applause, ladies and







                                                                   5
       1      gentlemen.

       2                  [Applause.]

       3             SENATOR GOLDEN:  It was their genius, and the

       4      genius of our leader, to get this Task Force started

       5      so that we can go across this state, and to

       6      recognize the needs of our communities and to deal

       7      with those issues.

       8             Being part of this hearing today, but more

       9      importantly, for their dedication, for the efforts

      10      to make the difference in the war on prescription

      11      drugs and heroin.

      12             We did a big thing with prescription drugs

      13      two years ago -- or, three years ago, as a matter of

      14      fact, that goes into effect this month, is the

      15      I-STOP, which is the registering of prescription

      16      drugs, by computer, with the Department of Health

      17      and with the pharmacies, so that we can put a stop

      18      to the oversubscription (sic) of opiates, such as

      19      Vicodin and other drugs that are being -- of course,

      20      used to kill our kids across this great state.

      21             Kids and families recognize that this law was

      22      in effect.

      23             It really hasn't been, to the fullest extent.

      24      It actually goes into the full extent this month.

      25             So what it did is, they drove -- many of the







                                                                   6
       1      children and many of the kids across the state, and

       2      this drug has killed from 11 years of age up to

       3      80 years of age, and past.

       4             So, it went through the medicine cabinets and

       5      they got those drugs, and then there was nothing

       6      left, and then they went to heroin.  And heroin is

       7      six, seven, eight dollars a bag, and one hit on a

       8      14-, 15-, 16-, 17-year-old kid that weighs about

       9      100, 110 pounds, two hits, three hits, that kid is

      10      addicted.

      11             And, unfortunately, it's a very high-potency

      12      heroin, and it's not only killing them, but it's

      13      keeping them addicted.  I've seen kids going into

      14      programs three, four, five times, still come out.

      15             We lost two doctors' kids here, I'm not going

      16      to go into the names of the doctors that lost their

      17      children here over the last two months, but they

      18      were 24 and 27 years of age, and both of them heroin

      19      overdoses.  And one of those children had been in a

      20      program three times.

      21             We have kids here that have taken the

      22      Narcalan (sic), and they've taken it three, four,

      23      five, six times.

      24             And that's not just here, but that's across

      25      the state, and across the nation.







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       1             But you're in one of the top counties in this

       2      state, Staten Island being probably number one,

       3      Westchester possibly number two.  You guys got a

       4      better break than I do in Nassau County.  And then

       5      we're probably somewhere around three or four when

       6      it comes to the opiates and continuing with the

       7      heroin deaths and overdoses.

       8             The heroin, opium, epidemic is destroying

       9      lives, families, in our communities and the city and

      10      our state.  Heroin does not discriminate against

      11      race, religion, or economic status.

      12             As I pointed out, we lost two doctors' kids

      13      in the past two months.

      14             Anyone can fall victim to this deadly grip.

      15             And each day here in New York we are being

      16      flooded with the dangerous drug, and this flood of

      17      heroin coming into and going out of New York City

      18      has surged in the highest levels of more than

      19      two decades.

      20             Working as a New York City Police

      21      Department -- working with the New York City Police

      22      Department and the Kings County District Attorney's

      23      Office, we have made arrests, and undercover

      24      investigations continue.

      25             Just not -- this past week, down on







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       1      74th Street, between -- 214 74th Street, to be

       2      exact, there were arrests at that location, and at

       3      that location, they took out 2 people, with

       4      200 milligrams of heroin and $60,000 in cash.

       5             That -- so those two were arrested a week ago

       6      Saturday.

       7             They have seized today -- across the

       8      communities here, they've seized hundreds across

       9      this city and state, pounds of heroin and hundreds

      10      of millions of dollars.

      11             But despite the Herculean efforts of DEA, the

      12      drug-enforcement agents, our local law enforcement,

      13      loads of heroin find its way to our streets, right

      14      through these phones.

      15             They pull up, it's like Chinese takeout or

      16      getting food delivered to your home, whether it's

      17      pizza, whatever it is, it's the same thing with

      18      these phones.  That's where the heroin is coming,

      19      right to the door, being delivered.  They go to pull

      20      up right in front of a fire hydrant, guy gets in the

      21      car, they go around the block, they make the

      22      transaction, they let the kid out at the corner.

      23             It's that simple, and it's that pervasive,

      24      and, unfortunately, into the hands of desperate

      25      users and addicts.







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       1             The sad reality for many of that is that they

       2      could be their last fix.

       3             It's a -- you know, the kids, they get into

       4      programs and have the fortune to be able to get to a

       5      program, into a program, and go through a program.

       6             "But by the grace of God go I," is one of the

       7      sayings that they have within those programs.

       8             He or she were fortunate enough to get into

       9      that program, and to get some spirituality, to get

      10      some physical training and some mental training, and

      11      to get themselves back into society.

      12             But, unfortunately, some of them fall right

      13      back into the trap.  And because they go back to the

      14      people, places, and neighborhoods that they hang out

      15      in, and their friends are still addicted to it, so

      16      they wind up going back with their friends, and they

      17      wind up getting back into the addiction.

      18             And this is what's killing many of these

      19      kids.

      20             We have many good organizations out here that

      21      are working with us, to help us get these kids into

      22      programs, and we have many good educational

      23      programs.

      24             And we have to do more.

      25             And you're going hear about that today, and







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       1      we're going to hear from you, and, we're going to do

       2      the best we can.

       3             In my district, there's, unfortunately, a

       4      high number of people that have lost their lives,

       5      and have been hospitalized, and are currently

       6      addicted to these prescription drugs; but mostly the

       7      heroin.  Heroin is the biggest issue today in this

       8      community.

       9             The Senate has responded to the heroin and

      10      opiate problem by passing pieces of legislation sent

      11      to the Assembly, to assist on the war on drugs.

      12             And, hopefully, the Assembly will do the

      13      right thing and pass this legislation, send it to

      14      the Governor, get the Governor to sign it, and let

      15      it become law.

      16             The Rockefeller drug laws were taken out back

      17      in 2009, 2010.  There was a change in government in

      18      the state of New York.  It was a Democratic

      19      Assembly, a Democratic Senate.

      20             Today we have a Republican Senate, a

      21      Democratic Assembly, so there's a balance here in

      22      this great state.

      23             But when they did that, they did away with

      24      the Rockefeller drug laws.  Great idea, we didn't

      25      want to put these poor kids in jails for 20 years,







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       1      30 years.  But we never thought about the weight,

       2      the weight of those drugs.

       3             When they changed those weights, or let those

       4      weights be what they are, that's what's causing this

       5      epidemic that we have here today.

       6             We have to change the laws here in the state

       7      of New York if we want to save our children and give

       8      our kids back to their families and give them the

       9      opportunities that they need.

      10             And we need more money for programs so we can

      11      get our kids into these programs so that they can

      12      live and that they can survive.

      13             Expanding the crime of operation -- of

      14      operating in a major trafficking is one is -- is

      15      Bill Number S.4177, which is sponsored by

      16      Senator Murphy, which helps strengthen the laws

      17      relating to major drugs.

      18             And, establishing crime of homicide by

      19      sale of opiate controlled substance, known as

      20      "Laurie's Law," S.4163.  I think we passed that last

      21      week, right, in the Senate?

      22             Facilitating the conviction of drug dealers,

      23      S.100, sponsored by Phil Boyle, our colleague in

      24      Long Island, allows someone to be charged with the

      25      crime of intent to sell if he possess 50 or more







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       1      packages of a Scheduled I opium derivative, or

       2      possess $300 or more worth of such drugs.

       3             Why would you be allowed to have 150 or

       4      200 bags of this heroin, and not be charged with

       5      felonies and put into jail for it?

       6             It's crazy.  It's absurd.

       7             Improving safety and judicial diversion

       8      programs, S.1901, sponsored by Senator John Bonacic,

       9      another one of our colleagues in upstate, and

      10      requires a Court to determining a defendant's

      11      eligibility for a judicial diversion program for

      12      alcohol and substance abuse.

      13             I keep on calling it "upstate."  My

      14      colleagues are going to laugh at me.

      15             It's the mid-Hudson.

      16             But everything outside of New York City to me

      17      is upstate.

      18             Preventing the sale of synthetic drugs,

      19      sponsored by Senator Jeffrey Klein, Bronx and

      20      Westchester, this would help combat the

      21      quickly-moving world of the designer drugs.

      22             Expanding treatment --

      23             SENATOR MURPHY:  Just passed that one.

      24             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Pardon me?

      25             SENATOR MURPHY:  Just passed that one too.







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       1             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Just got that, that's true.

       2             Expanding treatment options for individuals

       3      in judicial diversion programs for opiate abuse or

       4      independence (sic), S.4239B, sponsored by my good

       5      colleague here Senator Murphy.

       6             Establishing assisted outpatient treatment

       7      for substance-use disorders, S.631, sponsored by

       8      Senator David Carlucci from Rockland County, enables

       9      the Court to order assisted outpatient treatment

      10      (AOT) for an individual with a substance-use

      11      disorder.

      12             We need that law.

      13             Creating a Prescription Plan (sic) Medication

      14      Awareness Program, S.4348, sponsored by

      15      Senator Kemp Hannon from Nassau, creates a

      16      continuing medical education program for

      17      practitioners with prescribing privileges.

      18             We got to reduce the number of prescribed

      19      pills that are going into our homes when it comes to

      20      opiates.  We don't need 30-, 60-, and 90-day

      21      prescriptions filled with these types of opiates.

      22      10 days, 15 days, 5 days, whatever we think that

      23      we're going to need for that illness or for that

      24      operation or for that sickness, that's what we

      25      should be giving.  And then let them come back and







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       1      get another prescription if one is needed.

       2             But we should not doing the large doses of

       3      the opiates that we are giving out today across the

       4      state, or were doing at one time.

       5             I-STOP will put a stop to that, and it will

       6      also put a stop to the doctor-shopping, where you

       7      can get opiates at one pharmacy.  Go to another

       8      doctor, he'll give you a prescription, go to another

       9      pharmacy.  And then you go to another doctor, get

      10      another prescription, go to a third pharmacy.

      11             This will put a stop to all of that, and has

      12      put a stop to it.  And that's why heroin has become

      13      the drug of choice for many of our kids across this

      14      state.

      15             Creating drug-free zones upon the grounds of

      16      drugs and alcohol treatment centers, S.4023,

      17      sponsored by Senator Dean and -- Skelos, and creates

      18      a drug-free zone, prohibiting the criminal sale of a

      19      controlled substance within 1,000 feet of a drug or

      20      alcohol treatment center, methadone clinic, similar

      21      to the drug-free zones of our schools.

      22             Making Kendra's Law permanent, S.4722,

      23      sponsored by Senator Cathy Young, improves care for

      24      people with serious mental illness, and protects the

      25      safety of patients and the public by streamlining







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       1      and improving the New York AOT program,

       2      Kendra's Law.

       3             And, criminalizing the illegal transport of

       4      opiate controlled substance, S.608, sponsored by

       5      Senator Boyle, further criminalizing the illegal

       6      transport of an opiate controlled substance when

       7      it's transported any distance greater than 5 miles

       8      within the state, or from one county to another

       9      county within the state.

      10             Establishes the option for a youth suffering

      11      from substance-use disorder to be educated as a

      12      person in need of supervision (PINS), which has been

      13      around for a long time, S.3237, sponsored by

      14      Senator Jack Martins, provides parents with the

      15      ability to file a PINS petition in family court for

      16      a potential placement of one's child who is

      17      suffering from substance-use disorder into a

      18      substance-use program -- treatment program.

      19             Kid gets to 18 years of age, we got a

      20      problem.  All right?

      21             So you want to be able to get -- and make

      22      sure that we can deal with these children before

      23      they become young adults.  And when they become

      24      young adults, it becomes a major problem for their

      25      parents in trying to get them in.  The kid doesn't







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       1      have to do that.  The kid can do what he or she

       2      decides that she wants to do, or he wants to do.

       3             So it's very, very trying for the family in

       4      trying to get these children into these programs.

       5             And the kid's got to be ready for these

       6      programs.  If they're not ready for the program,

       7      they're just going to repeat, and go back on the

       8      street and do it again.

       9             In addition to the 2015-16 budget, provides

      10      extensive funding for programs targeting heroin

      11      crisis, including $7.8 million in funding for

      12      statewide prevention treatment and recovery service.

      13             That would not have happened if this

      14      Task Force was not in place, ladies and gentlemen.

      15             This Task Force is the reason that more money

      16      is being directed at this scourge.  And this is a

      17      scourge.  This is killing and tearing families

      18      apart.

      19             450,000 to purchase Narcalan (sic) kits, to

      20      keep giving out by free individuals who participate

      21      in the Narcin (sic) training class -- Narcalan (sic)

      22      training classes.

      23             And today we have a number of pharmacies in

      24      our community that will give you Narcalan (sic)for

      25      free.  And you should have it in your home, just in







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       1      case.

       2             Your kids are hanging out, you never know.

       3             Kid comes over.  The kids could be straight,

       4      one kid isn't.  One kid comes in, one kid has the

       5      overdose.  You have that Narcalan (sic) kit in your

       6      house to be able to save that life of that

       7      individual.

       8             We don't know who's on it.

       9             Your friends, that even -- that your children

      10      are bringing into the house.

      11             Your friends -- they don't know if they're

      12      friends, in some cases, are using heroin.

      13             That's what's going on in our schools today.

      14             It is amazing how this is happening.

      15             And, I have a particular case that I know of

      16      personally, where this happened.  And it's just a

      17      shame that we're not prepared for it, we don't

      18      expect it.

      19             We would never expect it in our own homes.

      20             And, all of a sudden, pop, it can happen to

      21      any one of us.

      22             Any one of us, our children can go astray, or

      23      bring in a kid, a friend, that is already under the

      24      use of this drug.

      25             $140,000 to finance the cost of







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       1      Narcalan (sic) kits for staff nurse authorized to

       2      administer the Narcalan (sic) in the event of a

       3      heroin or opiate overdose in our schools.

       4             And I could go on and on, but my partners and

       5      you would kill me if I continue to go on with all of

       6      these laws.

       7             So what I'm going to do, is to give it -- an

       8      opportunity for my colleagues to open up, and to

       9      make their comments.

      10             And then, of course, we have a number of

      11      people that will testify before us.

      12             And, hopefully, at the end of this session,

      13      you will be at least somewhat more educated, and

      14      have more options than you had before you came in

      15      this room, and to understand that the State is

      16      taking this very, very, very seriously.

      17             This Senator, Senator Golden, here in this

      18      community, is shocked, and is out there on a regular

      19      basis, on a number of kids that we have today that

      20      are addicted to heroin here in Dyker Heights, here

      21      in Bay Ridge, here in Graves End and Bensonhurst and

      22      Marine Park, and across our community here in

      23      Brooklyn and Staten Island, and across this city.

      24      The numbers are outstanding.  You would never

      25      believe it.







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       1             Ladies and gentlemen, our good colleague--

       2      who shall I go to?  George?

       3             SENATOR AMEDORE:  Murphy.

       4             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Murph?

       5             -- Senator Murphy, ladies and gentlemen.

       6             And, I want to thank him for driving down

       7      here and for being part of this Task Force.

       8             Please give him a round of applause.

       9             And, Senator.

      10                  [Applause.]

      11             SENATOR MURPHY:  Senator Golden, thank you so

      12      much for the opportunity to come down to a part of

      13      Brooklyn that I've never been to.  And I'm getting

      14      to know New York State.

      15             Senator Amedore and myself had the

      16      opportunity on Tuesday of, 7:00 in the morning,

      17      I took off in my car and headed up from Westchester

      18      to Albany.  And my good buddy here was able to throw

      19      me in his car, and we took off to Oneonta for a

      20      12:00 meeting on Tuesday, and we had about a

      21      2 1/2, 3-hour meeting at SUNY Oneonta, which was

      22      tremendous.  Great, great presentation that was

      23      delivered by Senator Seward and ourselves.

      24             And then we grabbed a little bite of lunch,

      25      and headed out to Penn Yan, which is out by Buffalo,







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       1      and we did another, about a 4-hour Task Force

       2      meeting out there.

       3             And drove back into Albany.

       4             And I would just like to thank my good

       5      Senator for the ride, and the safe ride back and

       6      forth.  But -- and him traveling down from Albany

       7      today.

       8             It is absolutely an incredible issue that

       9      we're dealing with.

      10             To be able to come down here and say a few

      11      words is just an absolute honor and a privilege.

      12             Knowing and hearing from the community around

      13      New York State, is -- it's just devastating what is

      14      going on.

      15             The kids are -- and I say "kids," and I don't

      16      use that term facetiously, because some, literally,

      17      are kids, and like Senator Golden said, we have

      18      adults, they're, literally, dying.

      19             And my background is, I'm a chiropractor,

      20      nutritionist, so I know a little bit about

      21      physiology and how this whole -- how the opioid

      22      works, and how the Narcan here works.

      23             And what we had done last year was -- an

      24      intricate part, was to allow -- if you could

      25      imagine, school nurses, it was illegal for school







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       1      nurses to administer the lifesaving antidote Narcan

       2      on school grounds if they needed to.

       3             That was illegal.

       4             We switched that.

       5             And not only did we switch that and allow

       6      them to (a) be certified in it and get them a kit,

       7      but we're not big proponents of unfunded mandates.

       8      We also funded that, close to a quarter million

       9      dollars, to make sure all schools in New York State

      10      have the opportunity to allow their school nurses to

      11      get certified and carry it.

      12             Why they wouldn't, I don't know, but we're

      13      not here to shove things down your throat.

      14             Also, is to allow all first responders to be

      15      able to carry the Narcan kit.

      16             And the explosion that has happened, thank

      17      God we did.

      18             In my district alone, I'm up in

      19      Westchester County and Putnam County and

      20      Dutchess County, and, just last week, we had a

      21      20-year-old that was arrested under an initiative

      22      that we started up there, called the "Northern

      23      Initiative," and it was $30,000 cash, 562 bags of

      24      heroin.  And, it was a 20-year-old, female.

      25             And then her boyfriend had sold it to a young







                                                                   22
       1      kid, who the parents found up in his room,

       2      overdosed.  Ran him to the hospital.  On life

       3      support.  Turned over the phone, tracked it all

       4      down.

       5             And that's what -- you guys are doing a

       6      tremendous, tremendous job, our law enforcement.

       7             And we are here to support you a

       8      million-and-one percent.

       9             So there's -- this past Thursday -- what,

      10      I don't even know, what's today?

      11             Today's Friday.  Right?

      12             So, last Thursday, 26-year-old in my hometown

      13      overdosed and died.

      14             Yesterday, another 26-year-old male was

      15      caught through this task force, dealing, numerous

      16      times.  Finally arrested.

      17             So these are the kind of things that we are

      18      aggressively going after.

      19             Some of the stories that -- a story --

      20      I thought I had heard it all, until I went to

      21      Penn Yan and heard this lady's story that gave me --

      22      literally, gave me the chills.

      23             Devastating, losing a nine -- what was it,

      24      9-month-old? or a 9-year-old?  And her son in jail.

      25             And it was just absolutely horrifying.







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       1             So we are here.

       2             Senator Amedore and myself and Senator Ortt

       3      have been traveling New York State.

       4             We will continue to travel New York State, to

       5      do whatever we have to do to (a) take the stigma off

       6      of this, because you have really, really good kids

       7      that just got caught up taking their prescription

       8      drug that was prescribed to them from their medical

       9      doctor.

      10             I had the opportunity of going down to

      11      New Orleans this past summer to represent

      12      New York State in the pain management,

      13      opioid-overdose prevention, and listened to the

      14      other state legislators from around the

      15      United States.

      16             And the number-one -- number-one thing that

      17      came out of that whole thing was the

      18      overprescription of Oxycontin, oxycodone, Percocet,

      19      the Vicodin; the prescription drugs that gets people

      20      started.

      21             And so we've been trying to make a concerted

      22      effort of a Shed the Meds program, a take-back drug

      23      program, that we're getting law enforcement involved

      24      in, and a number of different initiatives that are

      25      going to try and take some of these drugs off the







                                                                   24
       1      streets.

       2             So, I am here to listen.

       3             It is an honor and privilege to be here.

       4             If there's anything that we can do, or

       5      suggestions, because, obviously, we don't know all

       6      of what needs to be known, and we're here to listen

       7      to you and to get some more information, and then,

       8      eventually, come up with, our Task Force, our book

       9      that we will -- suggestions for New York State.

      10             That's the whole idea of what we're doing

      11      here.

      12             We will be going into Long Island within the

      13      next few weeks, and then back up into Westchester.

      14      And I believe we're going to be back up in

      15      Binghamton, I think, for Senator Ashkar (sic), or

      16      something like that.

      17             So, thank you for the opportunity of being

      18      here today.

      19             I look forward to a great discussion, and

      20      some suggestions that the panel would have for us.

      21             Thank you.

      22             SENATOR AMEDORE:  Well, thank you,

      23      Senator Murphy.

      24             I'm Senator Amedore, and I represent the

      25      46th Senate District, which consists of







                                                                   25
       1      Montgomery, Schenectady, Albany, Greene, and Ulster

       2      counties; so it's a connection of the Hudson Valley

       3      and the Mohawk Valley region.

       4             And when you look at that, it's kind of the

       5      Capital Region area, that we upstaters are no

       6      different than being here in an urban area.

       7             And I want to first thank,

       8      Senator Marty Golden, and the Knights of Columbus.

       9             I want to thank everyone who is in the

      10      audience today.

      11             This is an issue that is not going away.

      12             This is an issue that's not trending up or

      13      down.

      14             This is an absolute crisis we have throughout

      15      the state of New York.

      16             And to all of the speakers who will be

      17      testifying and sharing, thank you for taking the

      18      time out of your busy schedules, and having us learn

      19      more about the epidemic of heroin use, the

      20      overprescription of opiate and pain pills, to

      21      substance abuse, in general.

      22             I am the Chairman of the Standing Committee

      23      in the State Senate of Substance Abuse -- Alcoholism

      24      and Substance Abuse, so I live, eat, sleep, this

      25      issue on a daily basis in Albany.







                                                                   26
       1             And, I echo the words of Senator Murphy, as

       2      we, literally, have been going around this state to

       3      listen.

       4             So, with that, we know that we cannot arrest

       5      our way out of this problem to solve the problem.

       6             We understand that it is a multi-prong

       7      approach to curtail, or to actually eradicate, this

       8      crisis or epidemic that we have.

       9             And that multi-prong approach is, which I'm

      10      sure we're going to hear a lot of today, talking

      11      about prevention and advocacy, which will -- you

      12      know, the more we can educate everyone in the

      13      community, not just our students in schools, but

      14      everyone in the community, about the addiction

      15      problem and abuse of substances, it will help, to

      16      going and looking at our treatment options, and the

      17      treatment providers, and, Do we have enough beds?

      18      Where are they located?  And what type of treatment

      19      is being provided, and is it working?

      20             Engaging, and getting some sort of

      21      measurement of success.

      22             To then going into the recovery phase, and

      23      making sure that we have the recovery services and

      24      the wrap-around services for an individual, and that

      25      peer-to-peer support, so that we know that someone







                                                                   27
       1      who we've invested in treatment, and we have try --

       2      we're trying to help them get back on their feet,

       3      will stay recovered, and, kind of help them along

       4      their course of life.

       5             And another prong is law enforcement.

       6             So I'm so glad to see the captain here from

       7      NYPD.

       8             And I'm sure that we have in -- the special

       9      narcotics prosecutor here from the city.

      10             That the law-enforcement aspect is very

      11      important.

      12             As Senator Golden mentioned, all of the

      13      important pieces of legislation that the Senate has

      14      introduced or passed, we are working on this.

      15             So, I look forward to hearing from the great

      16      people of Brooklyn about this issue, so we can go

      17      back to Albany, finish up our report, and put forth

      18      some great initiatives that are going to help with

      19      this quality-of-life issue that is devastating every

      20      community in the state of New York.

      21             So thank you for being here today.

      22             I want to say, thank you (inaudible.)

      23             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Our first team here is law

      24      enforcement, and great leaders within their own

      25      rights and their own agencies and departments, and







                                                                   28
       1      are doing an outstanding job in trying to deal with

       2      the epidemic of heroin.

       3             And one of the reasons we're here, is to make

       4      sure that we give the tools that these good people

       5      need to be able to go out there and do the job they

       6      need to do.

       7             And we have, Bridget Brennan, the New York

       8      City Special Narcotics Prosecutor.

       9             We have the Assistant Chief,

      10      Brian McCarthy, commanding officer of the

      11      New York City Police Department, Narcotics Division;

      12             And, Captain Theodore Lauterborn, from

      13      narcotics, New York Police Department, borough of

      14      Brooklyn South.

      15             Ladies and gentlemen, give them a round of

      16      applause, and give them a welcome here.

      17                  [Applause.]

      18             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Before they start, I know

      19      Pastor Ellerteem (ph.) is in the audience.  I want

      20      to point him out.

      21             Thank you very much for being here.

      22             And I know Josephine Beckmann, from our

      23      community board, our manager, is here as well.

      24             Give them both a round of applause.

      25             Thank you very, very much.







                                                                   29
       1                  [Applause.]

       2             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Which one of you lovely

       3      people would like to start?

       4             Bridget?

       5             Thank you.

       6             BRIDGET G. BRENNAN:  Good afternoon.

       7             I'm Bridget Brennan.  I'm the New York City

       8      Special Narcotics Prosecutor.

       9             And I want to thank the Senators for your

      10      attention, for your dedication, to this issue.

      11             There's much to be done.

      12             The problem was long in the making, and we

      13      need all hands on in solving it.

      14             So thank you very, very much for your

      15      dedication, and for listening to us today.

      16             My office has citywide jurisdiction; meaning,

      17      throughout the five counties of New York City, on

      18      felony narcotics offenses.

      19             We were born out of the heroin epidemic in

      20      the 1970s when heroin was a gritty urban problem,

      21      and, really, a problem that was a problem of the

      22      impoverished.

      23             Now we're facing a much different situation.

      24      It's a problem that cuts across every demographic

      25      group.







                                                                   30
       1             I have been the head of this agency for

       2      18 years.

       3             I was a Manhattan assistant district

       4      attorney.  I was brought on in 1983.  I was a

       5      homicide assistant and sex-crime assistant during

       6      the sex -- or, during crack epidemic.

       7             So I've seen this city through some really

       8      tough times, and I've seen it through some very good

       9      times, and I agree that we face a very daunting

      10      challenge.

      11             What I would like to do is lay out for you

      12      the problem as I see it, and offer you just a couple

      13      of issues, a couple of problems, that we have really

      14      zeroed in on.  And if you could focus on these two

      15      issues, I think you could do a lot to help us.

      16             So, to describe the problem, I'm going to

      17      start in the post-2009 drug trends.

      18             As Senator Golden pointed out, in 2009 we had

      19      a big overhaul of the drug laws.  And since that

      20      time, much changed.  Some of it had to do with the

      21      tools that law enforcement has had to address this

      22      issue, which has had, as I'll show you, an impact on

      23      the number of cases that are being brought, and an

      24      impact, really, on the number of people going to

      25      prison, et cetera, et cetera.







                                                                   31
       1             There is much good about that, but there are

       2      also some unforeseen, very problematic consequences

       3      that we're facing.

       4             The other things that have happened since

       5      that time is, New York State came to the opioid

       6      epidemic, the prescription-drug epidemic, late,

       7      actually.  We didn't come to it till after 2005, and

       8      so that problem fell on us post-2009.

       9             In addition, heroin came on us like just a

      10      maelstrom.

      11             The heroin is pouring over the southwest

      12      border.  It's being produced both in Mexico and in

      13      Colombia, but the Mexican cartels now we see are

      14      primarily responsible for moving it across, and it

      15      makes it much easier to get it into this country.

      16             So we're having a big problem with that.

      17             On top of that, because we have so much

      18      heroin out there, we have a new group of users.

      19             The heroin that we're seeing is very, very

      20      pure.

      21             To give you a point of comparison, in the

      22      1970s, the glassines, the doses of heroin in the

      23      little envelopes, was about 7 to 10 percent pure.

      24             Now we're seeing 40 to 60 percent pure.

      25             What that means in terms of the user, is the







                                                                   32
       1      user now is often snorting it as opposed to

       2      injecting it.  And, that, the fact that you don't

       3      have to use a needle to start on heroin means that

       4      it attracts other users who may have been really put

       5      off by that needle in the past.

       6             And we are seeing that areas that were never

       7      afflicted with heroin before, as you've already

       8      mentioned, are having a big problem with it.

       9             Now, as I said, oxycodone didn't burst on the

      10      scene here until after 2005.  And as best we can

      11      identify the cause for that, is, until 2005,

      12      New York State was among the last states, along with

      13      California and Texas, that required triplicate

      14      prescriptions.  These big, bulky prescriptions for

      15      the prescribing of the Schedule II drugs, which is

      16      what oxycodone and all the opioids are, and that

      17      seemed to dissuade doctors from prescribing it.

      18             But, now, since they use the same pad as they

      19      use for prescribing an antibiotic, we saw a big bump

      20      up after 2005.

      21             My chart doesn't go all the way back to 2005.

      22             The reason I started looking at it -- we

      23      don't usually look at legal drugs as the special

      24      narcotics prosecutor -- but, in about 2009, we

      25      started to find huge stashes of the opioid







                                                                   33
       1      prescription drugs when we were hitting search

       2      warrants all over the city.

       3             So we tracked it back to see where it was

       4      coming from, and what we discovered -- I thought I'd

       5      find that a big catch of it had been stolen off a

       6      shipping dock.

       7             What we found was that it was being

       8      prescribed in record amounts.  We saw prescriptions,

       9      just for one of the opioid drugs, oxycodone, which

      10      is the favorite on the diversion market, we saw more

      11      than one million prescriptions hitting, more than

      12      one million in 2010.  And that's one million, not

      13      pills, but prescriptions, for a city of 8.5 million

      14      people, including children.

      15             We have seen that continue to rise, but I'm

      16      glad to say that we are seeing it level off.

      17             Why do I say I'm glad to say it?

      18             Because, in terms of the new addict that

      19      you're describing, the gateway is the pills.  And to

      20      the extent we're finally seeing it level off, it

      21      suggests to me that we are starting to see the

      22      gateway, the drug that introduces the new user, we

      23      are starting to see that gateway at least not open

      24      wider and wider, but, hopefully, start coming to a

      25      close.  That's what I'm hoping.







                                                                   34
       1             There's been some talk about the shift over

       2      to heroin after I-STOP.

       3             It was my experience, in analyzing this, and

       4      listening to treatment providers, that even before

       5      I-STOP, the addict, the person who was addicted to

       6      the opioid drug, was switching over to heroin

       7      because it's cheaper, and it's built to get high,

       8      unlike the opioid medication which often has some

       9      contents which allow it to absorb into the system

      10      more slowly.

      11             So I think we saw that switch over.

      12             I think I-STOP, frankly, has only helped our

      13      situation.  I certainly don't think that it has made

      14      things worse.

      15             I think I punched out my microphone, but

      16      that's okay, I have a nice loud voice.

      17             I want to show you what our overdose-death

      18      rate looks like.

      19             The area circled in yellow are the areas with

      20      the highest overdose rate in the city.  And you do

      21      see it's over in Staten Island, but look at where we

      22      are over here.  Right?

      23             What we've seen with the opioid-overdose rate

      24      is that it creeps.

      25             This is New York City.







                                                                   35
       1             Here is Staten Island.

       2             These are two of the neighborhoods in

       3      Staten Island for these years, 2010, 2013 -- excuse

       4      me, '12 to '13.

       5             Our Health Department -- this comes from our

       6      City Health department.  They're always lagging

       7      behind in terms of getting the information.

       8             But the other thing is, you saw the high

       9      death rates up in The Bronx too.

      10             It makes the point that everybody has been

      11      making.

      12             This is the South Bronx, some of our more

      13      impoverished areas of the city.

      14             This -- these drugs cut across every

      15      demographic.  It hurts everybody.  And it's

      16      creeping.

      17             It comes across Staten Island.

      18             We see it creep across here.

      19             And when we get to the slide on

      20      heroin-overdose deaths, you'll see that they sort of

      21      follow the same pattern.

      22             I urge the Senators to read this editorial.

      23      It's in the package that I gave to you.

      24             And it specifies some things the State Health

      25      Department can do to educate our physicians, and







                                                                   36
       1      encourage them along the lines of what

       2      Senator Golden was talking about, to reduce the

       3      number of opioid prescriptions.

       4             Now, this is how a criminal diversion ring

       5      operates.  I'm going to give it to you real quick.

       6             We have done a lot of cases that reflect

       7      this.

       8             And I'm telling you, prior to about 2010,

       9      I could count the number of cases we did on doctors

      10      or medical staff probably on one hand.

      11             And since then we've done dozens.

      12             A doctor or a member of the staff or somebody

      13      who steals one of these pieces of paper collects

      14      somewhere around $125 cash, if it's a doctor, for

      15      this piece of paper, a prescription.

      16             The customer is often recruited by a

      17      diversion ring, which is collecting thousands and

      18      thousands of pills for redistribution.

      19             They give one of their, what we would call,

      20      the "runners" 300 bucks, to go pay cash for the

      21      pills.

      22             They use cash, because, that way, insurance

      23      companies won't track it.

      24             The pills are sold on the street for

      25      somewhere around $20 each.







                                                                   37
       1             Usually, it's our rule of thumb that it's

       2      about a dollar per milligram.

       3             So here's the math:

       4             For 180 pills, which would be, you know, the

       5      highest supply you could get for a month, the net

       6      gain will be somewhere around $3,600.

       7             And minus the relatively small amounts that

       8      go into it for doing absolutely nothing, these rings

       9      can collect over $3,000 for one bottle of pills.

      10             And that's what's really fueling all these

      11      drug-diversion rings.  That's the model.

      12             So what did we see backing up?

      13             Well, of course, once the Mexican cartels saw

      14      how much opioid the Americans were consuming, they

      15      quickly followed up with heroin, heroin in amounts

      16      that I've never seen before.  And I've been head of

      17      the agency for 18 years.

      18             So look at the huge, huge spike up, between

      19      2013, these are our big seizures that we do with

      20      DEA.  And this is just in New York City in my

      21      office.  And this is in kilograms.

      22             So multiply it by 2.2, to tell you how many

      23      pounds of heroin we seized in 2015.

      24             And it's somewhere near 1,000 pounds;

      25      compared to what we seized in 2006, which was







                                                                   38
       1      somewhere near 100 pounds.

       2             So that's what I mean when I say we are awash

       3      in heroin.

       4             Now, let's take a look at the heroin-death

       5      rates in the city.

       6             This is 2013-2014.  The area circled in

       7      yellow are the ones with the highest death rates.

       8             Again, it's Staten Island.

       9             Again, we see the creep across the river

      10      there.

      11             And, again, we see the South Bronx, it's

      12      consumed.

      13             Very different heroin organizations in

      14      Staten Island and The Bronx, by the way.  Very

      15      different law-enforcement strategies involved in

      16      routing out those organizations.

      17             But this is how the heroin trafficking routes

      18      appear.

      19             My agency does a lot of these international

      20      cases.

      21             And I can tell you, from my perspective, the

      22      greatest contribution law enforcement can make to

      23      this effort is to reduce the supply of cheap,

      24      addictive narcotic drugs on the street.  That's our

      25      mission.







                                                                   39
       1             So here's how they're coming in:

       2             Some is coming in from Colombia to Mexico.

       3             The Mexicans are producing some on their own.

       4             They've increase the number of land -- or,

       5      the amount of land which is devoted to opium

       6      cultivation, and they've developed methods for

       7      processing heroin on their own.

       8             We see it moving sometimes to the Caribbean,

       9      to the Dominican Republic, sometimes to Puerto Rico,

      10      and then coming to New York.

      11             But the vast majority comes over land from

      12      Mexico, across the United States, and into New York

      13      where it fuels the rest of the state.  We have

      14      huge-volume heroin production going on in this city.

      15      Much of it is concentrated in The Bronx, and that's

      16      because The Bronx has great highway access to

      17      Upstate New York, to Long Island, to New Jersey, and

      18      to the entire New York metropolitan area.

      19             The "heroin production mills," as we call

      20      them, operate like factories.  They are producing

      21      hundreds of thousands of glassines a day.  They work

      22      in shifts.  They produce millions off of one load of

      23      heroin that comes in.

      24             Here is how the dealers make money:

      25             Heroin is a cheaper alternative for the







                                                                   40
       1      opioid addict.

       2             And, so, you can't see this, but this is

       3      New York City.  The price for heroin is a lot lower

       4      than it is upstate.  One glassine in New York City

       5      might be $10.  In Clinton County and Plattsburgh,

       6      it's 20 to 50 dollars.  And in Suffolk County it

       7      might be $20.

       8             So it's all about the price point.  This is a

       9      business.

      10             It's 100 percent business model: one mill,

      11      one shift, hundreds of thousands of glassines.

      12             Those bricks you see, are glassines that are

      13      wrapped up in magazine papers, ready to be

      14      transported in a car, going upstate.

      15             There's several hundred thousand in that mill

      16      that we took off.

      17             In New York City, heroin deaths have outpaced

      18      murders.  I think we had over 400, maybe 460 deaths,

      19      attributed to heroin alone.  That's not counting the

      20      opioid overdoses.  Total, there were over 600.

      21             And there were about 350 or so murders in

      22      New York City last year.

      23             Same thing's happening throughout the state.

      24             In the suburbs, the heroin supplies are

      25      surging and the deaths are soaring.







                                                                   41
       1             So post-2009, what are our enforcement

       2      challenges?

       3             Well, the penalties are lighter.

       4             And so, oddly, what we have found, even

       5      though that was a statutory change that was directed

       6      to getting more people into treatment, what we have

       7      found in my office, is because the penalties are

       8      lighter, fewer people are going into treatment from

       9      the criminal justice system, and that means we have

      10      to recalibrate.

      11             The criminal justice system alternatives to

      12      incarceration is not necessarily going to be feeding

      13      people into treatment now, because they're facing

      14      probation as an alternative, not incarceration.

      15             So they don't really want -- people don't

      16      really want to go into treatment.

      17             And that's one thing that's hard for people

      18      to wrap their heads around.

      19             But a person who's addicted doesn't

      20      necessarily want treatment.  The people who love him

      21      want him to get into treatment, and some corner of

      22      him wants to get into treatment, but he's sick, and

      23      he just wants to get high, oftentimes.

      24             And, so, we have to develop better mechanisms

      25      for getting people into treatment.







                                                                   42
       1             In New York City we focused a lot on violent

       2      gangs, but that's -- you know, everything has its

       3      cost and allocation of resources.

       4             So then there are fewer narcotics detectives,

       5      undercovers, and we've had less disruption of street

       6      supply.  And this is going on across the state.

       7      New York City is just one example.

       8             There are fewer drug sellers in prison.

       9      They're serving shorter sentences, and they're

      10      cycling through more quickly.

      11             And, simultaneously, we've had this opioid

      12      epidemic unfolding: the overprescribing of legal

      13      drugs, record amount of illegal heroin smuggled into

      14      the U.S.

      15             And so I told you that we have seen fewer and

      16      fewer people going into treatment.

      17             Let me just show you what's happened since

      18      2009.  These are my office's sentences, a percentage

      19      breakout of our sentences.

      20             Just to give you a sense of it:

      21             2005, about 42 percent of our defendants went

      22      to state prison.  Last year, about 45 percent went.

      23             In 2005, I think that number is around

      24      18 percent went to the local jail.  Last year, that

      25      goes up, about 22 percent.







                                                                   43
       1             So we're seeing some shift there, some more

       2      people are going to city jail.  But where we see the

       3      big spike up is in probation.

       4             2005, about 8 percent, I think that number

       5      is, went to probation.  Last year, 2015.

       6             So that's what I mean.  People are facing

       7      probation, and so they're not really that interested

       8      in treatment.

       9             Where do we see the trade-off?

      10             Okay.  In treatment, 2005, 14 percent of our

      11      defendants went into treatment.  Last year, and this

      12      has been consistent, 6 percent.

      13             So that's not really the avenue that's going

      14      to be a viable avenue so much for us.

      15             We have to look differently at how we're

      16      going to approach treatment, at least in my office

      17      here in New York City.

      18             Again, it could be different in places

      19      throughout the state.

      20             What are our felony arrests?

      21             The top number -- the top line here is felony

      22      arrests in New York City.  As you can see, it's gone

      23      down since 2008.

      24             This number here is felony indictments

      25      throughout New York City, again, going down.







                                                                   44
       1             And this is commitment to state prisons,

       2      going down.

       3             Now, this is what we were hoping to achieve,

       4      and what the State was hoping to achieve, with the

       5      drug-law reforms in 2009.

       6             Again, consider trade-offs.

       7             State and regional ramifications are

       8      significant, because New York City is fueling the

       9      drug epidemic all over.  It's not only staying in

      10      New York State, it's going into New Jersey, where

      11      it's coming back into Staten Island.

      12             The prescription-drug pill rings follow the

      13      same pattern, and addiction and overdose deaths are

      14      reaching records in places where it was unheard of

      15      not long ago.

      16             It's hard to see this from the back, but it

      17      indicates that in -- this is a DEA report.  In every

      18      single region in the state, heroin is identified as

      19      the number-one drug threat.

      20             And in three of the state's eight regions,

      21      pharmaceuticals are the number-two threat.

      22             Now, New York City pattern is reflected in

      23      the large counties.  That would include Albany,

      24      probably, and Westchester, and many of those in the

      25      Senator's jurisdiction.







                                                                   45
       1             Again, it's a trend towards fewer drug

       2      arrests, fewer drug indictments, fewer drug

       3      commitments to state prison.

       4             The smaller counties is the only place where

       5      you see it coming up.  I have a theory on that.

       6             My theory, is that the small counties are

       7      feeling it much harder and much faster than we will

       8      in the larger counties where our -- where we just

       9      have bigger populations.

      10             When I say that, I mean that heroin use and

      11      opioid addiction are frequently associated with

      12      property crimes; and it's not just property crimes.

      13      Violent crimes, terrible robberies, homicides,

      14      et cetera, et cetera.

      15             In the small county you're going to see it

      16      and feel it more quickly than you will in a big,

      17      larger metropolitan area.

      18             All right.  There are two things that I said,

      19      that I wanted to bring to your attention.

      20             One is the inadequacies of the weights, which

      21      Senator Golden alluded to earlier, and this is just

      22      one example.

      23             When the drug laws were changed, the B-felony

      24      offense, two things happened.

      25             The weights for possession were doubled.  The







                                                                   46
       1      minimum weights which would allow you to get to an

       2      A2 or an A1 possession were doubled, and only an A2

       3      one -- or, A1 and A2 felonies mandated state prison

       4      for the first offender.

       5             So just to give you a sense of it, this is

       6      from one of our cases, where we had a Bronx dealer

       7      who was supplying Suffolk County, and he was

       8      arrested with 4300 glassines of heroin, which

       9      weighed 3.16 ounces, which is B-felony weight, which

      10      is not a mandatory prison sentence.

      11             So it has a cascadive effect.  It's not just

      12      that that person is not appropriately punished.  But

      13      if you are trying to use leverage to have that

      14      person cooperate, to help you find the source of

      15      supply, good luck.

      16             That 4300 glassines in Suffolk County is

      17      probably worth about $80,000.

      18             So, from my perspective, just that statute,

      19      it's Penal Law 220.16, sub 12, is arbitrary and

      20      illogical.  It covers heroin in the amounts of

      21      half an ounce, all the way up to 4 ounces.

      22             And, you know, it doesn't make any sense.

      23             The first penalty for the first time a

      24      person's convicted of that crime is probation.

      25             The predicate offender faces a minimum of







                                                                   47
       1      two years, and would be very likely a candidate for

       2      shock.  And as you -- and that -- shock means you're

       3      in for six months, and then out, right back in the

       4      community, making your $80,000, minus your cost,

       5      again.

       6             Right?

       7             Now, the second thing, I want to point this

       8      out to you, this is a doctor who was, literally,

       9      selling prescriptions not far from here in

      10      Sunset Park.  He's selling to one of our undercover

      11      officers right in his office.  He's writing out

      12      prescriptions, taking cash for it, just like, you

      13      know, the grocer.

      14             Exchange, exchange.  Talking about -- what

      15      he's saying there is, you know, The DEA has been

      16      paying a lot more attention to this since Whitney

      17      Houston died, so be careful.

      18             All right?

      19             So he was convicted.

      20             We insisted that he plead to every one of the

      21      counts in the indictment.  There were 43 counts of

      22      sale of a prescription drug in the indictment, which

      23      is a C-felony offense.  I think he served 30 days,

      24      and, we worked with the Office of Professional

      25      Medical Conduct to assure that his license would be







                                                                   48
       1      taken away.

       2             So guess what's coming?

       3             The board decided, 5-to-0, to reject the

       4      request for revocation.

       5             Not only did we have him on tape selling the

       6      prescriptions, we recovered $150,000 worth of gold

       7      bars in his Long Island home.

       8             The board modified the penalty, to suspend

       9      his license for two years; to stay the suspension in

      10      full; to limit his license, to prohibit him from

      11      prescribing controlled substances for one year --

      12      thank you very much -- and to place the respondent

      13      on probation for five years under terms that will

      14      include practice monitoring, and completing, in one

      15      year, 12 hours of continuing medical education.

      16             SENATOR GOLDEN:  That's a shame.

      17             BRIDGET G. BRENNAN:  Not only is it a shame,

      18      but the standard of proof from my office is proof

      19      beyond a reasonable doubt.

      20             The regulatory board has a much lower

      21      standard of proof.  It's far easier for them to

      22      oversee and punish this appropriately.

      23             I don't really want to be throwing doctors in

      24      prison.  I, mean that's not the goal of all this.

      25      Right?  The goal is to curb the supply.







                                                                   49
       1             And I'm fine with throwing them in when

       2      they're drug dealers, but let's face it, it can be

       3      done much more quickly, in a much more streamlined

       4      way, if the Office of Professional Medical Conduct

       5      has adequate resources to do these cases, if the

       6      boards are advised of their obligations to the

       7      community to protect the public.

       8             And, if a statute is enacted, same one that

       9      lawyers face, if you are convicted of a felony

      10      offense you forfeit your license.

      11             There's no statute like that with respect to

      12      doctors, and I advocate that.

      13             Overall, the oversight of physicians is sadly

      14      lacking.

      15             The vast number of our physicians are good,

      16      hard-working.  There's just a few bad apples out

      17      there.

      18             But what you need to do is throw the fear of

      19      God into them, because they're just doing it for

      20      money, just like any other drug dealer.  Let them

      21      know their license is going to be pulled, and you'll

      22      see far less of that.

      23             So that's my testimony.

      24             I thank you very much for your attention.

      25             I look forward to working with you in the







                                                                   50
       1      future.

       2             And, turn it back over.

       3             Thank you very much.

       4                  [Applause.]

       5             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Bridget, I think you threw

       6      the fear of God into us, not the doctors.  They

       7      should have the fear of God in them.

       8             But I got tell you, the information that

       9      you've given us is -- I mean, it's considerable, and

      10      it's shocking.

      11             And I think the people in this room are

      12      getting the drift of how bad this drug is, and how

      13      lucrative it is to our drug dealers.

      14             We're going to come back.

      15             We're going to let the chief and the captain

      16      make their comments, and then we're going to do

      17      questions.  Okay?

      18             Chief.

      19             ASST. CHIEF BRIAN McCARTHY:  Good afternoon,

      20      Senators.  It's a pleasure to be here.

      21             I'm representing Police Commissioner

      22      William Bratton, very proudly.

      23             And about a week ago, I was reassigned.  My

      24      title has changed since I committed to this

      25      testimony today.







                                                                   51
       1             I am presently the commanding officer of the

       2      criminal-enterprise division, which is actually more

       3      responsibility, and still includes narcotics,

       4      which --

       5             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Congratulations.

       6             ASST. CHIEF BRIAN McCARTHY:  Thank you.

       7             SENATOR GOLDEN:  With your record, I'm glad

       8      to see that you got that.

       9             Thank you.

      10             ASST. CHIEF BRIAN McCARTHY:  Thank you, sir.

      11             I'm -- basically, each of the boroughs in

      12      New York City is going to be attempting to have more

      13      focus under the direct supervision of the chief of

      14      detectives, who is my supervisor, Chief Boyce.  And

      15      I'm assisting him with having more --

      16                  (Interruption in proceeding.)

      17             ASST. CHIEF BRIAN McCARTHY:  I am assisting

      18      him with the development of these programs in each

      19      borough, to have the focus that the

      20      Police Commissioner and himself wants, and to have

      21      more of an effect on all of narcotics and related

      22      violence that's transpiring in New York City.

      23             So, basically, in addition to assisting him

      24      with the narcotics enforcement, I'm in charge of the

      25      federal task forces that are linked up with the







                                                                   52
       1      New York City Police Department.

       2             And a lot of the discussion I have, you'll

       3      see, has an overlap with the Special Narcotics

       4      Prosecutor, and I think that's because she does such

       5      a good job, and has been such a mentor and assistant

       6      to me personally for a real long time in my

       7      position.

       8             I've been in narcotics enforcement at every

       9      rank that I've held in the New York City Police

      10      Department, and worked with Mrs. Brennan for, you

      11      know, quite some time.

      12             So that will -- the overlap, I think, though,

      13      may not be as I initially feared when I saw that

      14      Mrs. Brennan was here with me today, because

      15      I really concentrated on heroin.

      16             And heroin, basically, in New York City, the

      17      concern is there, but I really feel that, under the,

      18      you know, tutelage of the Police Commissioner, we

      19      really have made an impact, and we're going to

      20      continue to make an impact.

      21             When you look at the seizures, going back all

      22      the way to 2012, past what's on that board, there

      23      were 450 pounds of heroin seized in 2012, about

      24      130 more pounds in 2013, which doubled in 2014, and

      25      which was up, you know, significantly, all the way







                                                                   53
       1      to 1548 pounds in 2015.

       2             So I think we're on to people that was

       3      outlined, particularly the people in the areas of --

       4      you know, of concern.

       5             And, you know, how are we doing that?

       6             Search warrants is one of the -- a primary

       7      way.  It's a short-term investigative tool, where we

       8      establish probable cause for where heroin is being

       9      stored.

      10             The search warrants in New York City by the

      11      narcotics division was up significantly last year.

      12      Basically, 2,468 search warrants were executed,

      13      compared to 2,065 the previous year.

      14             However, the heroin search warrants that were

      15      executed were up 37 percent, which is -- you know,

      16      to show that not only was the increase on short-term

      17      investigations felt in all areas of drug

      18      enforcement, but it emphasized heroin.

      19             And the heroin arrests, looking at them

      20      citywide, they were up 30 percent, from 2015, to

      21      2014.

      22             That "4,203" number of heroin arrests is

      23      compared to 3243 the previous year.

      24             We're in the borough of Brooklyn.

      25      Senator Golden has had nothing but great support and







                                                                   54
       1      great -- been a great friend to the police

       2      department.

       3             So to just point out, in Brooklyn, in both

       4      southern Brooklyn and northern Brooklyn, because we

       5      divide -- we divide the borough in half, as the

       6      Senator knows, the concentration in heroin

       7      enforcement in Brooklyn has seen that -- has seen

       8      that increase.

       9             But, overall, I think one of the things that

      10      was discussed, was to make sure that we have the

      11      quality of those arrests.

      12             And looking at our arrests, from 2015,

      13      to 2014, A1 felonies is the highest charge in

      14      New York State.  It's the same charge as murder.

      15      And that's either where you possess 8 or more

      16      ounces, or if you sell 2 or more ounces, of a

      17      controlled substance, heroin or cocaine.

      18             Those arrests by narcotics personnel were

      19      more than doubled in 2015, compared to the previous

      20      year: 408 versus 196.

      21             So, I think the men and women, you know,

      22      really took this problem seriously and are doing

      23      their best to confront it.

      24             Similar to what was outlined, I have a very

      25      similar perspective, as I put up there, historical







                                                                   55
       1      perspective, to explain the problem.

       2             I'm a product of Brooklyn Catholic school, so

       3      I think those of us in the room who were of the same

       4      product know that, you know, you get taught things

       5      many different ways to make sure it gets into your

       6      head.

       7             So, I think this chart may help expand upon

       8      what was just expanded upon in a previous

       9      presentation, the origins.

      10             In the 1980s, heroin predominantly came

      11      from either Asia or the link between Asia and

      12      Europe, and from there, you know, to the

      13      United States.

      14             The routes were, as outlined, Asia, Europe,

      15      to New York.

      16             The wholesale price, compared to today, when

      17      you look at the right, tremendous increase.

      18             That "225,000," I was -- I have been in

      19      narcotics enforcement since February of 1985.

      20             At times, that 225,000 was as high as

      21      250,000, which means $250 a gram, as opposed to the

      22      discussions we -- you know, we've been having for

      23      the past hour, with significantly less money.

      24             The wholesale purity, when you bought a kilo,

      25      it was a score if you got, you know, as high as







                                                                   56
       1      70 percent.  It was rarely, rarely that high.  The

       2      quality wasn't there.  It was just getting your

       3      hands on it.

       4             And after you got your hands on it, when you

       5      go to the next line in that chart, the retail purity

       6      of 5 to 10 percent was because, whatever you got

       7      your hands on was significantly diluted in these

       8      mills that was outlined by the Special Narcotics

       9      Prosecutor.

      10             And when it was significantly diluted, it

      11      was, overwhelmingly, injected.  And when it was,

      12      overwhelmingly, injected, you know, one of the

      13      things, to just expand upon what we're talking

      14      about, you know, that's something that's ugly.  It's

      15      something that people don't want to really talk

      16      about, participate in, look at.  And it was, pretty

      17      much, confined to people who either made the error

      18      of getting involved in this usage, or were in a

      19      socioeconomic class that was very low.

      20             When you look at today, the origins in

      21      New York City are, predominantly, South America, as

      22      the Prosecutor Narcotics Prosecutor outlined, and

      23      they come up either through Mexico, and they make it

      24      to New York, through Mexico, or through the

      25      Caribbean, which are different cartels.  And that







                                                                   57
       1      price of $70,000 per kilo, which is almost a quarter

       2      less than it was 30 years ago, is going down.

       3      That's a fact, it is, and it will continue to go

       4      down.

       5             The purity, when you pay $70,000, is almost

       6      guaranteed to be 75 percent or higher.  And it's

       7      rarely getting diluted significantly.

       8             As you go down to the next portion of that

       9      presentation, the "40 percent," I think I'm going to

      10      update the next time that I do such a presentation,

      11      to high 40s.  Put like a little addendum in front of

      12      "40 percent," because we're just seeing that it's

      13      going -- it's continuing to go upward, which means

      14      that, when it's bought, if it's diluted at all, is

      15      the key thing.

      16             And I left it hanging there and not completed

      17      the sentence for a reason, because I think that that

      18      is, you know, a trend that's out there, and it's

      19      disturbing.

      20             The application, you know, the injection

      21      portion, as we said, is ugly.  But snorting,

      22      smoking, mixing with something else, is not.  And

      23      that's why it's so -- unfortunately, the last word

      24      in that presentation, that's why it is so

      25      mainstream, because it doesn't have the same







                                                                   58
       1      ugliness.

       2             And I think that's something, from a

       3      community perspective, we really have to work on.

       4             I think additional -- you know what?

       5             Before I get into operations, that chart, for

       6      one second, please.

       7             Additional historical perspectives are

       8      every -- to really emphasize what the

       9      Special Narcotics Prosecutor said, you know, there

      10      are so many fewer defendants in prison for these

      11      defendants -- for these offenses: opiates, heroin,

      12      cocaine.

      13             I'm just throwing cocaine in there because it

      14      is part of our major big problem.

      15             And the opiate epidemic that she outlined,

      16      I'm in total concurrence with, that it is the

      17      gateway to -- you know, to heroin.

      18             And I have these other notes.

      19             The prices, the heroin-death rates, and the

      20      concentration that we've seen in Bronx and Staten

      21      Island that the Special Narcotics Prosecutor

      22      outlined, we're in consultation with this, and we do

      23      see the same trend.

      24             Operationally, in New York City, we have --

      25      you know, we have these different units.  We try to







                                                                   59
       1      confront this problem on a multitude of levels.

       2             You have federal task forces, which consist

       3      of our organized-crime investigation division; our

       4      strike force, which is Homeland Security task force;

       5      the drug-enforcement task force, obviously, with the

       6      Drug Enforcement Administration; asset forfeiture,

       7      which works with the IRS.

       8             I oversee those units directly now, and what

       9      we're trying to do is, we're trying to really have

      10      an impact upon the kingpin component of this

      11      presentation.

      12             The narcotics boroughs, these are the

      13      people who are, you know, on the front lines in

      14      New York City.  There are -- there's significant

      15      personnel allotted to it.

      16             And, as this transfer and reorganization has

      17      occurred within the department, the chief of

      18      detectives is analyzing the -- you know, the

      19      appropriate assignment in each borough, as well as

      20      who else may be needed somewhere else.

      21             Basically, the daily operations of the

      22      narcotics boroughs, they handle -- they handle the

      23      multitude of arrests that are our most concern, as

      24      the Senator outlined.

      25             The daily operations, they go out in a team







                                                                   60
       1      concept.  Their safety, integrity, and operational

       2      efficiency is the cornerstone of what they do.

       3             In 2015, they made almost 26,000 arrests, and

       4      about 59 percent of them were felonies.

       5             Major cases is, basically, the type of

       6      investigation where we reached a level where we need

       7      the special assistance of the Special Narcotics

       8      Prosecutor, where we may need additional covert,

       9      electronic, or other means to try to prove who the

      10      people are that are actually at the top of these

      11      organizations.

      12             Last year, January 6, 2015, there were two

      13      police officers shot in The Bronx in the

      14      46th Precinct.  These two brave officers had

      15      actually finished their tour, and were walking

      16      upstairs to change, when they heard a "robbery/man

      17      with a gun" call come over, which they responded to.

      18      And they were both shot multiple times, and

      19      survived.

      20             From that incident, we were able to trace

      21      back over the next 24 hours, that seizure, on the

      22      left-hand side there, in the 49th Precinct in

      23      The Bronx, of 25 kilos.

      24             And as you can see from the strainers, and

      25      those are uncut kilograms of heroin.







                                                                   61
       1             But in the next room, the strainers and

       2      kilograms of heroin were put into use, which go all

       3      the way down to the level of glassines, which are,

       4      kind of, the subject of today.

       5             On May 17th, a case that the

       6      Special Narcotics Prosecutor is processing, the

       7      Drug Enforcement Administration Task Force, along

       8      with the NYPD, seized 70 kilograms of heroin, also

       9      in The Bronx.  This was the Riverdale section of

      10      The Bronx, pretty much, an affluent area, with a

      11      nexus to northern Manhattan, Washington Heights.

      12             These were Dominican nationals that were

      13      apprehended, all related by -- you know, by blood.

      14             And that 70-kilogram heroin seizure was one

      15      of the largest seizures in the United States by the

      16      Drug Enforcement Administration.

      17             You know, one of the keys is, you know,

      18      our -- my statistics, you know, aside, is that we

      19      need to collaborate, not just on the law-enforcement

      20      end, which I feel the Special Narcotics Prosecutor

      21      and I do very well, but all of us.

      22             In New York City, each of the five boroughs

      23      has a district attorney.  There are two separate

      24      federal prosecutors, as well as the Special

      25      Narcotics Prosecutor.  We all collaborate, to try to







                                                                   62
       1      see what the best approach is for the investigation

       2      concerned, so that, you know, we make sure that that

       3      person or that organization is prosecuted to the

       4      fullest extent of the law.

       5             Community.

       6             The youth programs, the emphasis that occurs

       7      within community, I know this community is a very

       8      strong one, that we're all sitting here in front of,

       9      but it's something that we always have to be

      10      conscious of, I think as the Senator said in his

      11      opening.

      12             Uniform involvement.

      13             You know, in New York City, and at the end of

      14      2013, there was a proposal that emanated from

      15      Chief Ward in Staten Island, that we utilize

      16      Narconan (sic) kind of department-wide.  It was

      17      really intelligent and insightful, and it was put

      18      through the chain of command and approved by

      19      Commissioner Bratton.  And it's been slow -- it's

      20      been implemented, and through training, you know,

      21      throughout the department.

      22             There are well over 16,000 officers trained

      23      at this time.  That number's ever increasing.

      24             And the naxalon (sic) has been administered,

      25      first, 4 times this year, 42 times last year, and







                                                                   63
       1      27 times in 2014.

       2             So I think that's a really good approach, as

       3      the Senator said, and the success is there for

       4      people who have access to it.

       5             We have our school safety division which

       6      tries to appeal to people at the -- you know, at the

       7      school level.  And I don't think that's really been

       8      hit on that much today, but it's something we can

       9      never lose, you know, sight on.

      10             And the collaboration, both myself and the

      11      Special Narcotics Prosecutor, we spoke before the

      12      City Council in June.  We tried to present a lot of

      13      these issues and some of the things that could help,

      14      as was outlined today.

      15             SENATOR GOLDEN:  I'm glad you used the word

      16      "tried."

      17             Go ahead.

      18             ASST. CHIEF BRIAN McCARTHY:  And, you know, I

      19      think that the collaboration, in relation to the

      20      problem that the Special Narcotics Prosecutor

      21      described very vividly in The Bronx, was also

      22      addressed by the Manhattan District Attorney's

      23      Office and the HIDTA program; specifically,

      24      John C. Parker.  Well, he had all of the attorney

      25      generals in the northeast at a conference in







                                                                   64
       1      October, to outline how there are different points

       2      from which, you know, distribution emanates from.

       3             And, he put a bunch of us into contact, and

       4      I've had conversation with people in other

       5      jurisdictions since then.

       6             So I think he was on a really good, you know,

       7      track from that -- from that meeting.

       8             And, I brought with myself today,

       9      Captain Lauterborn, who commands Brooklyn South

      10      narcotics, and does a good job.  I know him, and

      11      have worked with him for a while.

      12             So if there are any specific questions for

      13      the neighborhood that I couldn't specifically

      14      outline, he'll -- you know, he'll help us as well.

      15             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Thank you, Brian.

      16             Thank you very much for your comments.

      17             We're going to come right back to you.

      18             ASST. CHIEF BRIAN McCARTHY:  Thank you.

      19             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Captain, the -- (a) I want

      20      to say, thank you, for the arrest that you guys made

      21      on 74th Street a week ago Saturday.

      22             I know you've made further arrests in the 62,

      23      68, precincts.

      24             71, obviously, is not my command, but

      25      I understand there's heavy arrests over there as







                                                                   65
       1      well.

       2             But I understand the 61, 63, 62, 68, there

       3      have been a number of arrests, and your unit has

       4      been on top of it.

       5             And I want to say, thank you.

       6             Do you have any comments you want to make?

       7             CAPT. THEODORE LAUTERBORN:  I'm

       8      Ted Lauterborn.  I've been in narcotics since 2009,

       9      at the height of the uprise of the pill epidemic,

      10      and seen a lot of weird things go on with young

      11      people; how they, you know, went to the extremes of

      12      having to crush these pills, smoke them as they

      13      would a cigarette.

      14             And I could say, the patterns are holding all

      15      true to -- within this borough, to the effect that

      16      there are less pills out there.

      17             Our operatives and our undercovers have a

      18      hard time finding them now and having access to

      19      them, and the uprise in heroin is starting to take

      20      place.

      21             You know, the pattern of Staten Island, are a

      22      lot of our investigations that take place here in

      23      Bay Ridge, as well as Marine Park, I've seen it for

      24      myself.  The source has been Staten Island, and the

      25      back-and-forth over the bridge has been







                                                                   66
       1      investigated.

       2             The cell phone usage, texting, social media,

       3      it's much more intensive for the investigators to

       4      weed this out and to find the individuals who are

       5      dealing.

       6             It is no longer the traditional guy on the

       7      corner.

       8             As you said Senator, the driving up to the --

       9      to the hydrant, pulling over, meeting whoever, is

      10      done in moments, because the plan is already in

      11      place, so there is no waiting around.

      12             The traditional "watching the person waiting

      13      on the corner" is no longer.

      14             You know, with the new move, as the Chief was

      15      saying, to the detective bureau, I think we might

      16      have good opportunity to be better investigators,

      17      and, you know, weed this out in a much more intense

      18      way than just the low-level user.  We could now go

      19      after the bigger target, if you will, who's the

      20      cause, you know, into making their money on the

      21      backs and on the lives of young people.

      22             SENATOR GOLDEN:  I want to thank our panel

      23      here.

      24             Please give them a round of applause for

      25      their testimony here today.







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       1                  [Applause.]

       2             SENATOR GOLDEN:  The -- it's compelling, for

       3      our parents, our schools, our community, as they

       4      listen to this, what's going on.  And you can

       5      actually see what our police departments and our

       6      enforcement agencies are doing out there to try to

       7      combat this terrible, terrible scourge.

       8             What we're here as a Task Force is to assist

       9      these leaders and policing, to give them the tools

      10      that they need to be able to go forward and make the

      11      arrests that are necessary and to get this scourge

      12      out of our communities.

      13             I got to tell you, Bridget, Brian, Ted, the

      14      testimony here is just -- I mean, it brings chills

      15      down your back.

      16             Thinking that we have, 2016, we're still

      17      talking about kingpins.

      18             I thought that kingpins went out in the

      19      1960s and '70s and '80s.

      20             Kingpins are still alive and -- alive,

      21      stronger and better than ever, with the price of

      22      those kilos coming into our city, and the strength

      23      of the heroin coming into our city.

      24             I just have a few questions, and I want to

      25      turn over to my colleagues.







                                                                   68
       1             But the -- I have pain-management locations.

       2             Now, what do we -- I got two that are in my

       3      community, this one doctor has, and he's got two in

       4      Queens.

       5             If I look at the Sprint, and I go into the

       6      calls, I look at 911, and 911 goes there every

       7      single day to the one in Queens.

       8             Luckily, we don't see as many here at the

       9      location -- one location that they're at.  But they

      10      just opened up a new location.

      11             How do -- what is the process to go and check

      12      out these pain-management locations, to find out if,

      13      in fact, and how do we get undercovers in there?  Or

      14      is this, somewhere, do I get the Attorney General?

      15      Is it a combination?

      16             Where do I go for that?

      17             BRIDGET G. BRENNAN:  We have a unit that we

      18      set up to investigate prescription drugs, and we

      19      would be happy to take the information.

      20             The way we usually work up a case, is we work

      21      with the Bureau of Narcotics Enforcement under the

      22      Department of Health.  We get information about

      23      prescribing practices.

      24             Usually -- sometimes you can send an

      25      undercover right in, but usually not.  Usually, you







                                                                   69
       1      have to develop some information about the location,

       2      and just make sure that -- that what they're doing

       3      or involved in as a practice that just appears,

       4      from -- we've developed patterns that we expect to

       5      see if -- if there's illegal activity going on.

       6             And so we analyze the prescribing activity in

       7      suspect locations, so we can determine whether or

       8      not we -- it's a good idea to proceed further.

       9             So I'd be happy to take the information.

      10             We work with the NYPD, we work with the DEA,

      11      my investigators work up these cases.

      12             SENATOR GOLDEN:  We also have a hotel here

      13      that's, right now the sheriffs are sitting on a

      14      hotel, because they owe the $400,000 to the City.

      15             So...

      16                  [Applause.]

      17             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Yes, yes, I want to thank

      18      the community board and my colleagues in government,

      19      and, of course, my office that worked so hard on

      20      this.  And they never get the credit that they're

      21      due, and they're running in and out of my office.

      22             So I want to thank all of my staff, and, of

      23      course, all of your staff that are here today.

      24             Give their staff a round of applause for the

      25      work we're doing here, and my staff, and I want to







                                                                   70
       1      thank them.

       2                  [Applause.]

       3             SENATOR GOLDEN:  But, eventually, the sheriff

       4      will get his 400 -- the building's worth several

       5      million dollars, right, so he's going to get his

       6      $400,000.

       7             But, it's been a source for, I don't know how

       8      many years, of prostitution and narcotics.

       9             And there's an actual woman on the block that

      10      tells me, the car comes, picks up at 7:00 in the

      11      morning, the lady comes out, gets in the car, drives

      12      around in the car, comes back, drops the lady off,

      13      and continues on his way.

      14             I guess he's picking up the receipts.

      15             But just to give you an idea how lucrative

      16      this little hotel is in our community:  The sheriff

      17      sitting on the location -- now, you've got pass the

      18      these two sheriffs.  You've got to pass the

      19      sheriff's car, and the sheriff sitting inside.

      20             You've got to pass these sheriffs to get to

      21      the window, to get the hotel room.

      22             They took in $7,000 in one week, last week.

      23             $7,000, with the sheriff sitting in the

      24      hallway and the car's parked outside.

      25             So how lucrative was that?







                                                                   71
       1             How many people did not go in?

       2             How many people wouldn't have the audacity to

       3      go bad, or -- or -- or, you know, attempt to go into

       4      this hotel and possibly get arrested?

       5             So that's another issue that I'm going to

       6      have to -- I understand we have a multiagency group

       7      coming together, and, hopefully, you're part of that

       8      multiagency group.  And we'll be talking further

       9      with Captain Ray Festino (ph.) here in 68 Precinct,

      10      and the community board, and others, to make sure

      11      that this multiagency group does come together and

      12      close down that hotel, because I can't -- they got

      13      an overdose there and death a week ago, 35 years of

      14      age.

      15             The two doctors' kids that died here,

      16      24 years of age and 27 years of age.

      17             It's just from one extreme to the other.

      18             You spoke of 8 ounces as possession, and

      19      4 ounce -- I'm sorry, and 4 ounces for sale, as

      20      the -- as a felony -- felony -- A felony?

      21             ASST. CHIEF BRIAN McCARTHY:  A1.

      22             SENATOR GOLDEN:  A1.

      23             Okay.  The -- what -- we need to know what

      24      tools you need, right here to this group here.

      25             I can almost guarantee you, once you get it







                                                                   72
       1      to our desk and we get that information, we will

       2      have a piece of legislation drawn, written, and

       3      voted on, and passed in the New York State Senate

       4      within the next two to three months, tops, probably

       5      within the next six weeks, and sent over to the

       6      Assembly.

       7             So the sooner you can come up with the

       8      legislation that you need to be able to -- the tools

       9      that you need to be get done -- to get your job

      10      done, please, give it to this Task Force.

      11             On top of that, we will go to the Assembly,

      12      and, obviously, the people in this room will attempt

      13      to get that passed as well in the Assembly, and get

      14      it signed by our good Governor, because our Governor

      15      is out in front on this issue as well, because of

      16      the money that he's putting towards the programs,

      17      putting towards beds, putting towards -- and that's

      18      because of this Task Force here today, that's the

      19      type of money we see going into it.

      20             You know, going into -- going forward, three

      21      strikes you're out, obviously, nobody wants to hear

      22      this and -- in this day and age.

      23             But, if you sell drugs, and you go down a

      24      third time for the sale of drugs, and you go down

      25      for a count of, you know, anything from a C, above,







                                                                   73
       1      and you're still on the streets and still coming out

       2      and still selling, we should have something along

       3      those lines where this guy goes away for life.

       4             I mean, is there -- no.  Right?

       5             BRIDGET G. BRENNAN:  I just don't see that

       6      there's going to be much support for that.

       7             I think, you know, the view-point shift, and

       8      part of the argument against it would be, the person

       9      who's easiest to arrest for sale will be the lowest

      10      level, the low-hanging fruit, as you referred to it.

      11             What you really want to do is go after, you

      12      know, that top level.

      13             And the problem is, that the tools have been

      14      so undercut that you can't leverage the lower-level

      15      arrests to bring you, you know, up the chain as well

      16      as you used to be able to do.

      17             SENATOR GOLDEN:  So we need to increase the

      18      lower-level arrests so you have more opportunities?

      19             BRIDGET G. BRENNAN:  We need to at least make

      20      it appropriate.

      21             I mean the A2 possessory weight is just --

      22      that one's off the charts.

      23             And the other thing that's -- can be

      24      inappropriate is shock.

      25             I've had shock -- put some of my







                                                                   74
       1      international drug dealers in shock.

       2             That's crazy.

       3             SENATOR GOLDEN:  That is crazy.

       4             BRIDGET G. BRENNAN:  Because all they're

       5      going to do, once they get out after six months, is,

       6      you know, fly back to Colombia and enjoy their

       7      wealth.

       8             It makes no sense.

       9             Shock was intended for the low-level, you

      10      know, young person who needs kind of the boot --

      11      structured boot-camp approach in order to

      12      rehabilitate themselves.

      13             And I'm fully for that.

      14             It just has become, fill the beds.

      15             And so that kind of mindset we need to get

      16      away from.

      17             SENATOR MURPHY:  So then how do you go after

      18      the kingpins, so to speak?

      19             BRIDGET G. BRENNAN:  Well, the way we go

      20      after the kingpins is by building on the lower-level

      21      cases.

      22             The lower-level cases we need to tinker with.

      23      I don't think we need something like -- and I just

      24      don't think it would ever get anywhere, you know,

      25      the mandatory life for three offenses, or anything







                                                                   75
       1      like that.

       2             I don't really think we need that.  I don't

       3      think we need that kind of drastic changes in the

       4      law.

       5             I could give you some heroin proposals.

       6             Heroin -- the laws apply the (inaudible,

       7      technical difficulty) as a definition of a narcotic

       8      drug, which includes cocaine and heroin.

       9             Heroin is just a lighter drug than cocaine,

      10      and, so, to appropriately penalize cocaine, you

      11      don't use the same weights as you do for heroin.

      12             An ounce of cocaine will give you, I don't

      13      know, maybe, you know, a few hundred doses, let's

      14      say.  But an ounce of heroin will probably give you

      15      1,000 doses.

      16             So it's -- there's a big differential there.

      17             The federal statutes differentiate between

      18      cocaine and heroin.

      19             Now, that may be too sophisticated to get

      20      through, to get a statute through on something like

      21      that.  I don't know.

      22             We could reduce the weights and have the

      23      A2 level be a lower threshold.

      24             All they did, when they changed the law, was

      25      just kind of, arbitrarily, double the weight.  They







                                                                   76
       1      weren't looking at what it actually meant.

       2             So we could give a context to it, give a

       3      meaning to it, and suggest something that would be

       4      more appropriate.

       5             So I think if we look at making changes that

       6      are within our reach, and mindful of the really --

       7      you know, the mindset which has changed so much.

       8             We don't want to just throw everybody in jail

       9      forever, because that doesn't solve all the

      10      problems.

      11             We want to target our resources.  We want to

      12      target those who are destroying our communities for

      13      their own greed and their own profit.

      14             Now, there are going to be some addicts who

      15      are involved in the sale of drugs, there's no

      16      question about it.  So we can't have hard-and-fast

      17      rules that, depending on -- it all has to depend on

      18      the individual and what kind of danger they present

      19      to our community.

      20             SENATOR GOLDEN:  I'd like to backup that

      21      question: the suicides and accidental deaths.

      22             If there's an overdose, it comes in as an

      23      overdose, either way?

      24             BRIDGET G. BRENNAN:  No.

      25             They call them "accidental poisonings."







                                                                   77
       1             The maps that I showed, it's a category that

       2      the City Health Department has designed, that is

       3      called "accidental poisonings."

       4             And they have suicides in a different

       5      category.

       6             SENATOR GOLDEN:  So that wouldn't be in your

       7      count here then?

       8             BRIDGET G. BRENNAN:  I'm sorry, no, that

       9      won't be in the count.

      10             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Now, how would I get a true

      11      count?

      12             BRIDGET G. BRENNAN:  Including suicides?

      13             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Yes.

      14             BRIDGET G. BRENNAN:  I don't know.

      15             The Health Department probably keeps those

      16      kids of statistics, to the extent that they're able

      17      to.

      18             I believe in any sudden, unexplained death,

      19      the medical examiner has to make a determination,

      20      and, so, you probably can get those -- that

      21      information from the Health Department -- the City

      22      Health Department.

      23             SENATOR GOLDEN:  The reason I ask that, if we

      24      had the true number of the actual deaths by overdose

      25      here in the state of New York, and we actually have







                                                                   78
       1      the true number of overdoses, and we put this on the

       2      floor of the State Senate, and I'm going to tell you

       3      right now, everybody will understand the need to

       4      change the law when it comes to the weight of

       5      heroin.

       6             The way to sell this is by the body count

       7      across this state, from Brooklyn to Buffalo.  And

       8      that's what we plan to do.

       9             So you give us the information, you give us

      10      what you need, we'll get it done.  That, I can

      11      promise you.

      12                  [Applause.]

      13             SENATOR AMEDORE:  One of the things that

      14      we're working on in the Senate is, gather that data.

      15             The more data we can collect, to

      16      Senator Golden's point, the stronger argument we

      17      have to pass stiffer penalties, reduce the weight,

      18      and increase the penalties.

      19             With the over-the-counter sale of naloxone

      20      now, we are fearful, this Task Force is fearful,

      21      that alls we're going to see is the death rate go

      22      down, but the problem never get solved, because

      23      that's not the solution is naloxone.  That's just a

      24      tool to keep someone alive.

      25             So we're working on it right now, and we even







                                                                   79
       1      hope to possibly work it out within the budget.

       2             But, a database, and data gathering, is very

       3      vital to what Senator Golden is talking about here.

       4             BRIDGET G. BRENNAN:  No, I hear you.

       5             The City of New York has an excellent, you

       6      know, data collection through the Health Department.

       7             I don't know what goes on outside the city,

       8      whether other counties do that kind of collection of

       9      data.

      10             And if the State Health Department has the

      11      data, it's really based on what's given to them by

      12      the counties.

      13             So -- but I will gather up -- it's --

      14      New York City tends to be about a year behind in

      15      their data collection.

      16             And so I'll give you -- and they have some

      17      excellent reports on online, and I can share all

      18      that with you.

      19             Outside of New York City I'm a little

      20      hamstrung.

      21             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Dr. Hillary Kunis (sic) from

      22      New York City Department of Health is going to be

      23      following you guys up.

      24             Go ahead.

      25             SENATOR AMEDORE:  Even the presentation that







                                                                   80
       1      you put in the stats, both the Chief and yourself

       2      made reference to, it's eye-opening, it's

       3      astonishing.

       4             And there's not too many people in the

       5      communities at large who really see this on a

       6      day-to-day basis.

       7             The press is not picking it up, they're not

       8      running with it.  Every now and then, if there is a

       9      big bust, yeah, it will make the news, the

      10      headlines.  But, you know, maybe they're reading

      11      about an overdose in the obituary, and that's about

      12      it.

      13             But, whether it's gun violence in the streets

      14      of New York City, or any part of the state of

      15      New York, it's probably associated with the

      16      narcotics side.

      17             And that one image that you had with --

      18      Chief, that you showed, with the police officers

      19      being shot, and then finding out just days later, or

      20      a day after that, that, look at this giant find of

      21      one of the largest -- seizing the largest amount of

      22      heroin ready to go to the streets.

      23             People need to -- we need to see more of

      24      that.

      25             And I know that's not your issue to solve and







                                                                   81
       1      put in the public, but the press needs to engage

       2      more in the conversation, to show that this crisis

       3      that we have, people are dying.  And the amount of

       4      heroin being distributed, and the supply, is not

       5      going to go away, and it's very cheap.

       6             So we have to do everything we can to educate

       7      and to make them all aware, they don't need to go --

       8      they don't want to go and touch this stuff, they

       9      shouldn't go and touch this stuff, and we're going

      10      to come after you, and we're going to come after you

      11      hard.

      12             SENATOR GOLDEN:  The -- if I can, the --

      13      I got two more questions.

      14             And I'd like to, if the audience has a

      15      question for the -- for this panel, there is a

      16      microphone that's walking around.

      17             So, please not to be -- try not to be

      18      repetitive, if you can, if it's already been asked

      19      and answered, please, because of the time, and other

      20      people that are going to testify before us, to give

      21      them the opportunity.

      22             But you pointed out to us the number of -- of

      23      how they start with cocaine being the next -- the

      24      drug before the heroin.

      25             I had Dynamite here -- Dynamite Youth.  I did







                                                                   82
       1      a -- one of these over at 250 Broadway.

       2             I see Bill Fusco and Karen here, and I see

       3      some of the kids from the program.

       4             But there was, maybe, 16 to 18 kids, and

       5      I asked them, "Well, how did you get started?"

       6             And I think two of them started off with

       7      beer, and, you know, the natural progression,

       8      marijuana, and that led them to cocaine.

       9             But there were two of them, the kids that

      10      were in that audience, that started off with actual

      11      painkillers from injuries from sports from

      12      high school, that got them addicted to it.

      13             And, luckily, we do have the -- this one

      14      location.

      15             We have many other providers here today that

      16      may talk in a little while.

      17             But, I don't think they're listening to you.

      18             Are there enough beds, enough programs,

      19      enough detoxes, to be able to -- I understand you

      20      can't get a person into detox, that they're all

      21      full.

      22             Are you having the same -- do you hear the

      23      same stuff out there in the street?  Or you wouldn't

      24      hear that?

      25             BRIDGET G. BRENNAN:  I -- we work with







                                                                   83
       1      treatment providers quite a bit.  They have --

       2      they're great partners and great collaborators.

       3             And we hear about a shortage of certain kinds

       4      of beds.  Detox is often an issue.  And then there

       5      are -- there's a real shortage of beds for young

       6      people, especially under the age of 18.

       7             I mean, the treatment providers, of course,

       8      excuse me, would be the best ones to ask about that.

       9             SENATOR GOLDEN:  That could be insurance

      10      issues, or whatever?

      11             Is that --

      12             BRIDGET G. BRENNAN:  Yeah, that's what

      13      I hear, but, again, they'll be the experts.

      14             SENATOR GOLDEN:  You know, when I was growing

      15      up, the big thing back then was heroin, back in the

      16      '70s.  And I am that old.

      17             But you would see the needle in the street

      18      and you would never think about going near a needle.

      19             Today, the kids have a different mindset.

      20             The natural progression from sniffing and

      21      snorting it, smoking it, is now to the next high, is

      22      to the final high, is to shooting it.

      23             And the kids seem to have no problem in

      24      picking up that needle and shooting it.

      25             I -- I -- I am -- for the life of me, and I'm







                                                                   84
       1      talking about middle-class America.  I'm not -- I'm

       2      talking, right across the board here, I'm amazed at

       3      how many people are out there doing needles.

       4             Are you seeing a lot of needles as well in

       5      your arrests?

       6             CAPT. THEODORE LAUTERBORN:  We don't see the

       7      increase in needles.

       8             Like I said earlier, it's the crushing of

       9      pills.  Any way to get it into the bloodstream

      10      without a needle, they'll go to the extreme of even

      11      cutting themselves and rubbing it into the wound,

      12      and it will make its way through the bloodstream

      13      that way.

      14             The access to needles, you know, may not be a

      15      good avenue to go, so they go that way.  Or they're

      16      much more sniffing it, a cleaner way for, also, to

      17      prevent detection from parents and guardians.

      18             SENATOR MURPHY:  To your point, that's why

      19      we're seeing the rise in hep C.

      20             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Hep C.

      21             SENATOR MURPHY:  Yeah.

      22             So -- Bridget, just so you have an idea of

      23      what we're working on, this Task Force is expanding

      24      the crime of operating as a major trafficker.  It's

      25      Bill S.4177, sponsored by myself and, of course,







                                                                   85
       1      Senator Amedore, and the Task Force team.

       2             And, basically, instead of you guys --

       3      instead of the traffickers -- quote/unquote, major

       4      traffickers having to act as -- with four people,

       5      we're reducing it to three, and if instead of it

       6      having to be over $75,000 within a 12-month period,

       7      we're going to take it down to $25,000, so you can

       8      have some teeth when you actually get into these

       9      guys.

      10             SENATOR GOLDEN:  And Senator Golden.

      11             The --

      12             SENATOR MURPHY:  Of course.  I said you're

      13      part of the Task Force team.  Right?

      14             SENATOR GOLDEN:  The last two things:

      15             You have a breakdown of the body -- of the

      16      body count here in the city.

      17             If you could give me that body count, and

      18      broken down by borough, if you can, I'd like that.

      19             BRIDGET G. BRENNAN:  And I think Hillary,

      20      when she testifies, will have that information.

      21             It's in some of their EPI reports which are

      22      online.

      23             SENATOR GOLDEN:  And then I'm going to ask my

      24      colleagues, if they have any other comments, and

      25      then we're going to go to the audience.







                                                                   86
       1             But the last thing I'm going to throw in here

       2      is, uniform.

       3             We have a number of uniform.

       4             We've seen the largest hire in years, in the

       5      past year and a half, two years, which I commend our

       6      Police Commissioner, and I commend the job that NYPD

       7      is doing.

       8             And, obviously, what our Special Narcotics

       9      Prosecutor, the work that you're doing is

      10      outstanding.

      11             But I will tell you, there's still not enough

      12      uniform.

      13             If I were to look at the uniform count in the

      14      68 Precinct, for one, I will tell you, the count

      15      that was there 10 years ago, 15 years ago, the count

      16      that was there 5 years ago, was higher than it is

      17      today.

      18             You can't manage a precinct if they don't

      19      have the bodies in the precinct to be able to manage

      20      the streets.  And we need more uniform cops in our

      21      precincts.

      22             So I got to tell you right now, if you were

      23      to take a look at the count on the 68 Precinct

      24      alone, what the number of police officers, 90 police

      25      officers in a precinct of this size, it's absurd.







                                                                   87
       1             We need more bodies.

       2             So if you could bring that message back, if

       3      somebody could take a look at the numbers in

       4      Brooklyn South as to the uniform presence in our

       5      commands, we'd appreciate it.

       6             68 has really undermanned when it comes to

       7      the number of uniformed officers, and we need more

       8      uniformed officers here in the 68 Precinct, and

       9      across the board in Brooklyn South.

      10             Ladies and gentlemen, my colleagues, do you

      11      have anything else?

      12             SENATOR AMEDORE:  I just want to thank you

      13      for all your hard work, and what you're doing, and

      14      keep it up.

      15             And you know you have a partner in the

      16      Legislature to try to help.

      17             SENATOR MURPHY:  One last quick question.

      18             I'm not sure if you have a statistic on this.

      19             Someone had told me that all heroin comes

      20      through New York City, roughly, around, close to

      21      40 percent of it in the United States is coming

      22      through here.

      23             I'm not sure if that's true or not.

      24             BRIDGET G. BRENNAN:  I could get that number.

      25             The DEA has put out statistics on that.







                                                                   88
       1      I don't have them on the top of my head, but I could

       2      get that for you.

       3             SENATOR MURPHY:  No sweat, no sweat.

       4             I heard that, and it was staggering that,

       5      basically, it's flooding right through here.  It's,

       6      like, incredible.

       7             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Anybody else in the audience

       8      have a question?

       9             Right over here.

      10             Please state your name, please, and what you

      11      represent, and, go ahead.

      12             DR. LANCE AUSTINE:  Dr. Lance Austine.  I'm a

      13      resident of Staten Island.  I'm a treatment provider

      14      in Sheeps Head Bay, Brooklyn.

      15             You talked about the level of cut in the

      16      heroin, but you didn't mention anything about the

      17      most lethal form of heroin, the one that's cut with

      18      fentanyl.

      19             So can you comment on the fentanyl cut --

      20             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Michael Jackson.

      21             DR. LANCE AUSTINE:  -- and the lethal heroin?

      22             ASST. CHIEF BRIAN McCARTHY:  The

      23      police-laboratory test for fentanyl and all heroin,

      24      when we discover that that is in a package, we --

      25      you know, we do follow-up on the person that was







                                                                   89
       1      arrested, as well as any additional follow-up we can

       2      do as to where, you know, he or she gets it from.

       3             In the symposiums that I discussed that were

       4      arranged, targeting and discussing the problem in

       5      the northeast of the United States, that problem was

       6      really of greater concern and of greater

       7      infiltration in the public and within the drugs in

       8      other jurisdictions.

       9             In New York City, you know, we've seen it,

      10      and there are cases that I have in mind at this very

      11      moment that involve it.

      12             But the problem was, you know, that was

      13      predominantly in other jurisdictions, where it was

      14      either part of lacing with heroin or where it was,

      15      in and of itself, just distributed.

      16             And if the Special Narcotics Prosecutor has

      17      anything different, please feel free.

      18             BRIDGET G. BRENNAN:  I just want to amplify

      19      that.  We have seized kilos of fentanyl in mills,

      20      but we are not recovering it mixed in with the

      21      heroin very often in New York City.

      22             It's often recovered in Pennsylvania, in the

      23      Buffalo area, in different areas, but we haven't

      24      seen it so much here in the city, although, as

      25      I say, we are the producer that is supplying much of







                                                                   90
       1      the region, and so we have seized raw -- raw

       2      fentanyl.

       3             SENATOR MURPHY:  I believe in Erie County,

       4      they had 23 deaths in 11 days, and it was cut with

       5      fentanyl.

       6             OFF-CAMERA SPEAKER:  What's "fentanyl"?

       7             SENATOR MURPHY:  It's used for anesthesia.

       8             ASST. CHIEF BRIAN McCARTHY:  It's an opiate,

       9      basically.  And when you look at it, the best way to

      10      describe it is --

      11             SENATOR MURPHY:  It suppresses your --

      12             SENATOR AMEDORE:  -- the best way to describe

      13      it is, it's another -- another similarity, you know,

      14      to heroin, in that same family.

      15             And like any -- almost any drink, any drug,

      16      you know, the different -- the different mixture may

      17      affect different people differently.

      18             So I think, a lot of times, the surprise of

      19      having that injected into your system, however it is

      20      injected into your system, whether it's snort,

      21      needle injection, smoking, it's -- you know, it is a

      22      shock to the previous type of narcotic that was

      23      being used, which is -- which contributes to, you

      24      know, the effect from the conferrals that I've made.

      25             SENATOR MURPHY:  Sir, what it is -- I have a







                                                                   91
       1      little bit of knowledge in this -- basically, your

       2      central nervous system has a sympathetic nervous

       3      system which is for "fight or flight," and a

       4      parasympathetic nervous system which is to "wine and

       5      dine."

       6             The fentanyl overstimulates the

       7      parasympathetic nervous system, so when the phrenic

       8      nerve that innervates the diaphram, it goes to

       9      sleep.

      10             The same with the opioid.

      11             And so, basically, what you're seeing is that

      12      these people are really stopping breathing.  And

      13      that's why this naloxone, when you hit them, within

      14      30 seconds, they, literally, come back to life,

      15      because it's over -- because it neutralizes every

      16      opioid in your body, and what happens is, you go,

      17      boo, and they didn't even know they were sleeping,

      18      nonetheless dead.

      19             And they come back and are actually very

      20      violent.

      21             So what it does is, the fentanyl

      22      overstimulates your parasympathetic nervous system,

      23      which puts you to sleep.

      24             SENATOR GOLDEN:  And how so easy is that to

      25      use?  And why should that be in everybody's







                                                                   92
       1      households?

       2             SENATOR MURPHY:  This is -- this is -- this

       3      is completely benign.

       4             If you don't know that someone is having

       5      either a seizure and they're out, or they're having

       6      an opioid overdose, if you hit them.  And this kit

       7      could be put together within 30 seconds.  It's a

       8      nasal spray, intramucal, so you spray it into the

       9      nose, spray it into the nose.  There's two things in

      10      here, there's a few milligrams.

      11             And if they're not having an opioid overdose,

      12      the worst thing that's going to happen is, they're

      13      going to get a little drip come out of their nose.

      14             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Very lifesaving.

      15             Any other questions from the audience?  We've

      16      got to move on.

      17             Go ahead, right here, James.

      18             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I just had two points

      19      I wanted to bring up.

      20             One was the accessibility to needles.

      21             I know for a fact, kids can go to any local

      22      pharmacy and get a certain amount of needles without

      23      a prescription.  And I wonder why that is, that it's

      24      not demanded a prescription.  There's no need for a

      25      teenager, a 20-year-old to, walk into any pharmacy







                                                                   93
       1      and pick up a bag of needles.

       2             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Okay.  Bridget will handle

       3      that question first.  Stay there, we'll answer your

       4      next question, second.

       5             Go ahead Bridget, use the mic.

       6             BRIDGET G. BRENNAN:  The law was changed

       7      probably about 15 years ago, which allowed the

       8      dispensing of a certain number of hypodermic needles

       9      without a prescription.  It was to reduce the spread

      10      of AIDS, really.

      11             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  [Not using a microphone.]

      12      In light of the epidemic we have now, I think it

      13      should be considered changing that law, honestly.

      14             SENATOR GOLDEN:  It's not a bad idea.

      15             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yeah.  And the second

      16      point --

      17             SENATOR GOLDEN:  It's a good thing to look

      18      at.

      19             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  -- the second point I want

      20      to bring up is the discussion about your,

      21      quote/unquote, kingpin dealers.

      22             My son --

      23             SENATOR GOLDEN:  The mic closer to your

      24      mouth, please.  The mic closer to your mouth.

      25             AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm sorry.







                                                                   94
       1             -- the kingpin dealers that you're zeroing

       2      in, I understand where you're coming from with that.

       3             But my son, your daughter, they're not

       4      dealing with the kingpin.  They're dealing with the

       5      boy down the block that's been dealing for

       6      five years.  I know the same kids over and over that

       7      are dealing, they're not getting in trouble.  My

       8      kid's life is on the line.

       9             I have to tell you, I'm beyond frustrated,

      10      disgusted, that the same kids, for years, are still

      11      dealing.  Whether they're low level or not, that's

      12      who my kid is dealing with, not, you know, the

      13      kingpin.

      14             So I want to know why we can't, you know,

      15      knuckle down on these neighborhood kids that are

      16      dealing for years, years.

      17             Because I personally can walk you to homes,

      18      to bagel shops in my neighborhood, where I know

      19      they've been dealing for years, and nothing has been

      20      done.  And I have spoken to detectives about that.

      21             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Chief.

      22             ASST. CHIEF BRIAN McCARTHY:  I sympathize

      23      with what you're saying.  I'm a parent and lifelong

      24      city resident.

      25             What I was doing, I was outlining some of our







                                                                   95
       1      approaches, and some of the units I'm responsible

       2      for.  But the overwhelming dedication of manpower is

       3      to the type of problem you're describing.

       4             And, you know, there are -- there are better

       5      detectives than others.  I tend to think that all of

       6      the people that work for me are good.  But I think

       7      we all know there's people who are better at their

       8      job than others.

       9             If you reported it and it previously was

      10      unsuccessful, I ask that you give me the opportunity

      11      to try again, and I'll speak to you on the side

      12      afterward and take your information, and do my best

      13      for you.

      14             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Thank you very much, Chief.

      15             You had a backup question?  Is that your

      16      second question?

      17             Yes?

      18             Okay.

      19             Any other questions?

      20             No other questions for the audience.

      21             Listen, ladies and gentlemen, give this panel

      22      a round of applause.

      23                  [Applause.].

      24             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Thank you very much.

      25             More uniforms.







                                                                   96
       1             You're going to deal with the issue on the

       2      pain-management locations, and we'll talk about

       3      that.

       4             Ladies and gentlemen, if could you take your

       5      seats, we're ready to proceed with the next panel.

       6             Ladies and gentlemen, we have present with

       7      us today, the testimony here of Hillary Kunis (sic),

       8      a doctor.  She is the Assistant Commissioner at the

       9      Bureau of Alcohol and Drug Use Prevention, Treatment

      10      Center (sic), and Care.  She works for the

      11      New York City Department of Health and Mental

      12      Hygiene.

      13             She is here before the Task Force; as well as

      14      Stephanie Campbell, Friends of Recovery, will also

      15      be sitting at the same panel.

      16             So we're going to start with the testimony of

      17      Dr. Kunis (sic).

      18             DR. HILLARY KUNINS:  Good afternoon.

      19             Can you hear me?

      20             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Yes.

      21             DR. HILLARY KUNINS:  Good afternoon,

      22      Chairpersons Murphy, Amedore, Ortt, members of the

      23      Task Force.

      24             And thank you very much, Senator Golden, for

      25      inviting us here today.







                                                                   97
       1             As you heard, I'm Dr. Hillary Kunins.  I'm an

       2      assistant commissioner at the New York City

       3      Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, where

       4      I head up the Bureau of Alcohol and Drug Use,

       5      Prevention, Care, and Treatment.

       6             On behalf of Commissioner Mary Bassett,

       7      I thank you for your continued commitment and

       8      leadership on this very important issue.

       9             As I think we've heard this afternoon,

      10      New York City, along with many other jurisdictions,

      11      is in the midst of a drug-overdose epidemic.

      12             And also as you heard, rates of opioid

      13      overdose outpace murders in our city and outpace

      14      fatal car crashes.

      15             These overdose deaths are largely driven by

      16      heroin and opioid analgesics or prescription

      17      painkillers, resulting in more than two deaths each

      18      day in New York City.

      19             In the last decade, opioid overdoses have

      20      claimed the lives of more than 7,000 individuals in

      21      New York City.  And as we know, also, these deaths

      22      represent just the most severe aspect of the

      23      epidemic.  And many, many more individuals

      24      experience non-fatal overdose, and struggle with

      25      substance-abuse disorders and related health







                                                                   98
       1      problems that impair their function and well-being.

       2             In 2014, opioids were involved in 79 percent

       3      of all overdose deaths in New York City.  And the

       4      rates of overdose deaths involving opioid analgesics

       5      increased by 256 percent from 2000 to 2014.  And

       6      this took place, as you've been hearing,

       7      particularly among residents of low-poverty

       8      neighborhoods or wealthier neighborhoods.

       9             Since 2010, we have seen rates of

      10      heroin-involved overdose deaths dramatically

      11      increase in the city, both among residents of

      12      high-poverty and low-poverty areas.

      13             And you saw the map from the City Health

      14      Department that the Special Narcotics Prosecutor

      15      showed.

      16             And I'll just add to my testimony, that we

      17      saw heroin deaths increase in New York City prior to

      18      I-STOP implementation, so that predates the I-STOP.

      19             At the City Health Department, we've taken a

      20      multi-prong approach to addressing the problem of

      21      overdose deaths.

      22             We've included prescriber education and

      23      public-awareness campaigns.  And we know that these

      24      deaths are preventible also with treatment and a

      25      variety of prevention efforts.







                                                                   99
       1             Today I wanted to just focus on two areas

       2      that I thought it would be helpful for the

       3      Task Force to know about.

       4             These are critical gaps in services that can

       5      reduce mortality and promote the health of people

       6      with addiction.

       7             And I want to address, specifically,

       8      medication-assisted treatment and harm-reduction

       9      services.

      10             We know that medication-assisted treatment

      11      for opioid addiction, particularly using methadone

      12      and buprenorphine, has been proven in multiple

      13      scientific studies to reduce mortality, reduce drug

      14      use, reduce crime, and save lives.

      15             We estimate that between fifteen and

      16      thirty thousand people currently not in treatment

      17      could benefit from treatment services.

      18             The department funds and oversees

      19      drug-treatment services in collaboration with the

      20      New York State Office of Alcoholism and Drug Abuse

      21      Services, and as part of those services,

      22      medication-assisted treatment is one very effective

      23      strategy for reducing opioid mortality, and

      24      methadone clinics are a vital city service.

      25             I want to now share with you some new work,







                                                                   100
       1      that we are just beginning a

       2      buprenorphine-prescribing initiative.

       3             Buprenorphine is another effective medication

       4      for the treatment of opioid addiction.

       5             And through this initiative, we will train

       6      330 primary-care physicians annually for the next

       7      year.

       8             And 2we're also offering new financial

       9      support through a nurse-care manager model for

      10      additional primary-care sites.

      11             Addressing opioid addiction in primary-care

      12      settings has an important benefit in which stigma,

      13      that sometimes is accompanied by attending a

      14      drug-treatment program, does not affect the person

      15      who is getting care more privately through a

      16      primary-care practice.

      17             Know, however, that access to buprenorphine

      18      is highly regulated by federal prescribing

      19      requirements.

      20             We are supporting, and encourage you to

      21      support, the recovery enhancement for addiction

      22      treatment, or "Treat Act," that is currently pending

      23      before Congress.

      24             This act would relax patient limits and allow

      25      nurse practitioners and physician assistants who







                                                                   101
       1      receive specialized training to prescribe

       2      buprenorphine under the supervision of a qualified

       3      physician.

       4             I'll just add that, at present in

       5      New York State, both nurse practitioners and

       6      physician assistants can prescribe opioid

       7      painkillers without any special regulation.

       8             Medication-assisted treatment, however, may

       9      not be the appropriate approach for all New Yorkers

      10      with an opioid addiction, and you'll be hearing from

      11      colleagues in the field about other treatment

      12      approaches in New York City.

      13             I also do want to mention something that

      14      doesn't often get talked about in this setting,

      15      which is harm-reduction services.

      16             And as we heard from a woman who asked the

      17      question, sometimes it's bewildering to ask people

      18      who may not be ready to stop using drugs, or to

      19      offer them other kinds of lifesaving services.

      20             So we wanted to highlight the important work

      21      of New York City's syringe-exchange programs, of

      22      which there are fourteen.

      23             These syringe-exchange programs as -- are

      24      known for providing sterile syringes to people, but

      25      they, importantly, engage and link people, who are







                                                                   102
       1      actively using drugs and may not be ready to stop

       2      using, in a range of health-promoting care and

       3      services, including testing and care for HIV,

       4      hepatitis B and C.

       5             Peer-delivered syringe exchange, which has

       6      become a key component of harm reduction, has been

       7      particularly affecting people who are out of care

       8      and most in need.

       9             Our syringe-exchange programs in

      10      New York City have been early leaders in training

      11      community members in overdose prevention and

      12      naloxone administration, which is now, as you've

      13      been hearing, a widely-touted approach to reducing

      14      overdose deaths.

      15             The City Health Department has been

      16      distributing naloxone since 2009.

      17             As you've heard, naloxone is a safe

      18      medication that reverses an opioid overdose,

      19      restores a person's breathing.

      20             We distribute these naloxone through

      21      40 community-based programs, including to the

      22      syringe-exchange programs, as well as many other

      23      agencies.

      24             For the first time this year, the City has

      25      allocated a dedicated budget for naloxone







                                                                   103
       1      distribution, and the upcoming fiscal year, this

       2      will include $750,000 to expand distribution.

       3             We have partnered, at the Health Department,

       4      with multiple other city agencies, to distribute

       5      naloxone.  And you heard already from my colleague

       6      at the New York Police Department.

       7             We've also partnered with the Department of

       8      Homeless Services, Correctional Health Services, and

       9      the Administration of Children's Services, to ensure

      10      naloxone is as widely available as possible.

      11             We are seeking new partners and new ways to

      12      distribute naloxone, and we, in particular,

      13      encourage physicians, other primary-care providers,

      14      other community organizations, to register with the

      15      New York State Department of Health to become

      16      opioid-overdose prevention programs, and then can be

      17      permitted to train community members to recognize

      18      overdose and distribute naloxone.

      19             Finally, I want to mention our new pharmacy

      20      initiative with -- in collaboration with our

      21      partners at the State Health Department.

      22             Through a standing order from the

      23      New York City Health Commissioner, and through

      24      other standing orders in chain pharmacies,

      25      naloxone is available in more than 660







                                                                   104
       1      New York City pharmacies, including most Rite-Aid

       2      stores, all CVS, and all Duane Reade and Walgreen

       3      stores.

       4             And we encourage people who use drugs, their

       5      loved ones, family members, to visit participating

       6      pharmacies, to keep this lifesaving medication on

       7      hand in case of overdose.

       8             In addition to treatment and harm-reduction

       9      services, which are part of the department's

      10      comprehensive public-health approach to the

      11      epidemic, we have also actively promoted our, what

      12      we call, "judicious opioid analgesic prescribing

      13      guidelines," working to educate prescribers to

      14      prescribe more carefully in order to reduce exposure

      15      to opioids by people who could possibly become

      16      addicted.

      17             We also conduct surveillance.

      18             And you saw from the Special Narcotics

      19      Prosecutors several of our maps.

      20             And I'll make additional EPI data briefs that

      21      we have online, that detail the specific counts,

      22      that I think would be helpful to the Task Force.

      23             The last thing I just want to mention is, as

      24      has been mentioned, and I'll say it again:

      25             It's important to note that there is still







                                                                   105
       1      such tremendous stigma associated with drug use, and

       2      particularly around the illegality of drugs.  And

       3      this stigma is profound.

       4             It affects individuals' willingness to

       5      disclose their drug use and to seek help, and it

       6      creates barriers to being able to convey

       7      public-health-based harm-reduction messages to

       8      populations most at risk, in order to keep them safe

       9      and alive in order to get better.

      10             Finally, drug treatment itself, of all kinds,

      11      and, in particular, methadone treatment, is highly

      12      stigmatized.

      13             We ask that you continue to pursue

      14      legislation that expands access to both

      15      medication-assisted treatment and harm reduction, as

      16      well as the full array of drug-treatment services.

      17             If we are to continue to develop innovative,

      18      collaborative, effective interventions, it's

      19      imperative we all engage in open conversations about

      20      the long-term needs of people who use drugs in our

      21      communities.

      22             Thank you for your time, and I'm happy to

      23      answer any questions.

      24             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Did you want to -- I --

      25      the -- I got to tell you, excellent.







                                                                   106
       1             And, there's going to be a lot of questions,

       2      obviously, that people want to ask, especially when

       3      it comes to the syringe issue, and some other

       4      issues.

       5             But, we not only have families and people

       6      that want to keep it quiet, we have communities that

       7      don't want people to know.

       8             We have religious communities, families, they

       9      don't want the next door neighbor or the synagogue

      10      or the mosque or the church family to know what's

      11      going on.

      12             And when you have large communities that keep

      13      it a secret, that's where we seem to have the most

      14      problems.

      15             And, hopefully, I use my office as one of

      16      them, if you feel you cannot get that help, or you

      17      feel that you would be -- people in the community

      18      would know that you have a problem, or the family

      19      has a problem, I ask them to come to my office, and

      20      we will get them the help that they need, and nobody

      21      on the block and nobody in the community will know

      22      that you have a drug issue.

      23             But when you have large communities that are

      24      insular, and keep their kids and their families away

      25      from coming to -- for help, whether it be through







                                                                   107
       1      doctors or through the police departments or through

       2      appropriate treatment programs, that only enhances

       3      the drug in that community, and enhances the

       4      life-and-death scenarios that we see in our

       5      communities across our city.

       6             I just wanted to point that out, and I did

       7      that for a reason, because I want people to

       8      understand, it's not just the family, it's not just

       9      the individual, but communities of faith that are

      10      not coming forward and letting us know, because

      11      they're afraid their faith communities will find out

      12      about it.

      13             We need those people to get the help that

      14      they need to stay alive, and to reunite those

      15      families.

      16             So, please, if you need help, come, my

      17      office, any place, please, get the help you need.

      18             Gentlemen.

      19             SENATOR MURPHY:  To Senator Golden's point,

      20      I had met with the local mayor in my area, and they

      21      refused to believe it because it was going to lower

      22      property-tax values.

      23             Could you imagine that?

      24             People are dying, and they were worried about

      25      that.







                                                                   108
       1             So, the stigma has got to go.

       2             The stigma has just got to go.

       3             We have really, really good people that have

       4      just gotten hooked, you know, went down the wrong

       5      road, and you know, and everybody makes mistakes in

       6      life.  People do deserve second chances.

       7             And that's the whole idea of us gathering

       8      information, and being able to reach out to our

       9      community and say, Listen, this is a problem.  We're

      10      addressing it.  How do we address it?  Give us your

      11      information and let's see what we can roll out.

      12             As far as is the naloxone kits, you know, at

      13      CVS, you know, I think they're now over-the-counter.

      14      497 new CVSes, that they're going to give

      15      over-the-counter.

      16             I'm cautiously optimistic about that, because

      17      what I'm hearing out there is that these kids are

      18      having pharm parties.  P-H-A-R-M.  And they're going

      19      in, and they get a bowl, and they throw their pills

      20      in the bowl, and they're going to go and say, Okay,

      21      Hillary, you're in charge of the Narcan tonight.

      22      One of us go down, you got to hit us with this.

      23             So we're giving them a fail-safe, so to

      24      speak, really, Russian roulette, what they're

      25      playing with.







                                                                   109
       1             And, yes, yes, does this save lives?

       2             No ands, ifs, and buts about it, it saves

       3      lives.

       4             I don't want to see that these kids think or

       5      these people think that, listen, because I have a

       6      Narcan, it's okay for me to, you know, shoot up with

       7      the heroin, or take these pills.

       8             So, you know, I'm cautiously optimistic about

       9      having that, you know, over-the-counter.

      10             There's a standing script, you know, with

      11      Dr. Zucker, who's our DOH Commissioner.  You know,

      12      he had -- which I was surprised that he didn't

      13      really ask the Task Force, ask any one of us, about,

      14      you know, What are you hearing out there, what are

      15      you seeing out there, with regards to the naloxone?

      16             We know it's a lifesaver.

      17             That's why we put it in our one-House bill

      18      last year, to make sure that we allowed the schools

      19      to have this, we allowed our first responders that.

      20      And it just exploded, absolutely exploded, to the

      21      point where, I'm not sure if you know who makes this

      22      stuff.  It's a company called "Amphastar," the

      23      pharmaceutical company that, overnight, their kit,

      24      I believe, went from $19.95 to, I think it was

      25      $89.95.







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       1             And we had wrote -- we had written a letter

       2      to the Attorney General, Schneiderman, and asked him

       3      to sit down with Mr. Cho, who's the CEO of that, and

       4      work up with some sort of agreement.

       5             And New York State gets a $6 rebate for using

       6      one of these things.

       7             We are putting together a registry, to make

       8      sure to find out, like Senator Amedore said.  It is

       9      so important for to us have that, and figure out

      10      where these are being used, so we can dial into that

      11      area, specifically here in New York City, or

      12      specifically in Westchester, specifically in Albany,

      13      or Erie County.

      14             So, yeah, it is a lifesaver, no ands, ifs, or

      15      buts about it.

      16             The stigma's got to come off, that's for

      17      sure.

      18             SENATOR AMEDORE:  Dr. Kunins, do you

      19      believe -- do you feel that there's enough treatment

      20      within the city limits, the five boroughs, beds,

      21      types of beds, and services?

      22             DR. HILLARY KUNINS:  So, I think a couple of

      23      things.

      24             One is, we do have access to treatment that

      25      I know is much more robust than other parts of the







                                                                   111
       1      state.  Just to acknowledge, really, a shortage of

       2      many services in other parts of the state.

       3             I think that there's a misconception around

       4      what works as addiction treatment, and that the only

       5      thing that works, I think some families believe and

       6      some people believe, is to go far away to inpatient

       7      treatment for long periods of time.

       8             And the risk there, is that people come back

       9      to their communities and are exposed to some of the

      10      same stressors and problems that they were caught up

      11      in before they left.

      12             And so I think our main agenda is to really

      13      expand availability of services, and the idea that

      14      people can get treatment near their homes and in

      15      their own communities using a range of modalities.

      16             One thing that we've been, as you heard from

      17      my testimony, really quite preoccupied, is making

      18      sure access to good pharmacotherapy or medication

      19      treatment, which, in our field, is often yes or no;

      20      not, what do you need right now at this time?

      21             And so I think our view is that we want to

      22      give people every advantage to get the most

      23      effective treatment for them at that time.

      24             Let me just -- I want to make one quick

      25      comment about the naloxone, because I think,







                                                                   112
       1      Senator Murphy, you raised a really important issue

       2      that I get a lot questions about, is:  Gee, if we

       3      start making naloxone available, are we going to

       4      unintentionally cause more drug use or more severe

       5      drug use?

       6             And I think that's a really important

       7      question, because we certainly don't want to do

       8      that.  That's not -- we have the opposite agenda.

       9             I think that we know from scientific studies,

      10      actually, that when you make naloxone widely

      11      available in a community, that, in fact, at least in

      12      some of the studies, drug use actually goes down.

      13             Why?

      14             People actually think, gee, this is risky,

      15      and whoever is giving it to them is educating them

      16      about the risks of drug use.

      17             And there's some evidence that some people

      18      use drugs in a safer way, less often, less amount

      19      and so forth.

      20             So we haven't seen that increase.

      21             That I think that, you know, many people

      22      raise this issue, and we're going to continue to

      23      look at that, certainly in the city.  And there's

      24      lots of good signs happening around the country.

      25             So, we've not seen it so far.







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       1             SENATOR GOLDEN:  The -- I know you talked

       2      about the long-term-care facilities, whether people

       3      go away, and the short-term facilities.

       4             But part of that is that teaching, and that

       5      coming across and getting those people back into

       6      community, back into family, is people, places, and

       7      things.

       8             So they are taught those issues, and when

       9      they return to their communities and what may

      10      happen.

      11             Can I have one of those Narcalan (sic) sets

      12      before you leave, sir?

      13             Thank you.  You're a great man.

      14             Thank you.

      15             The -- so the -- so, to me, they do work and

      16      they work well.

      17             But there was something -- your testimony

      18      here, which I -- the opioid addiction, particularly

      19      using methadone and buprenorphine decreased

      20      mortality, do we have enough locations around our

      21      city?

      22             Did you -- did your testimony seem to give us

      23      an impression that there may not be enough of these

      24      locations?

      25             DR. HILLARY KUNINS:  So we -- there is







                                                                   114
       1      capacity in methadone maintenance programs in

       2      New York City.

       3             What there is not enough capacity is

       4      physicians prescribing buprenorphine as part of

       5      routine practice in outpatient settings.

       6             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Because they don't know it,

       7      or --

       8             DR. HILLARY KUNINS:  So I would bring us back

       9      to, partly, it's not integrated enough into

      10      medical-school education and residency education,

      11      and bring us back also to stigma.

      12             So doctors are no different than anyone else,

      13      including me, and that stigma affects their own

      14      perception of what they do and don't want to take

      15      in.

      16             And I think we need to work on training, and

      17      training physicians, to think of addiction like

      18      other illnesses, a medical illness to be treated.

      19             SENATOR GOLDEN:  The -- on the back end of

      20      that, you mentioned nurses that can prescribe

      21      prescriptions and are not under the I-STOP.

      22             Are they --

      23             DR. HILLARY KUNINS:  They are under I-STOP as

      24      well.

      25             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Okay.  And that would be







                                                                   115
       1      which two units that you just mentioned?

       2             DR. HILLARY KUNINS:  So nurse

       3      practitioners --

       4             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Nurse practitioners.

       5             DR. HILLARY KUNINS:  -- and physician

       6      assistants.

       7             And so these are medical professionals who

       8      are terrific, who are able to prescribe prescription

       9      painkillers; yet, according to federal prescribing

      10      regulation around buprenorphine, not able to treat

      11      addiction.

      12             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Okay.

      13             And then I want to go back to the -- what

      14      about the bad player, the bad actor; the

      15      pain-management locations that are set up to give

      16      the impression that they are there to take care of

      17      methadone or other opiate addictions, or whatever

      18      issue they may have, whether it be a back pain,

      19      chest pains, leg pains, whatever it may be?

      20             The bad player, the bad actor that's out

      21      there, that has the lines outside his door coming

      22      in, or her door, and getting pain management or more

      23      prescriptions, do we have a policy in the

      24      Department of Health on how we deal with that, with

      25      the doctors and with those facilities?







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       1             DR. HILLARY KUNINS:  So regulation, as the --

       2      as Bridget Brennan described, is actually through

       3      the State Department of Health, through the Bureau

       4      of Narcotic Enforcement, which is a State Health

       5      Department function and not a City Health Department

       6      function.

       7             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Okay.

       8             DR. HILLARY KUNINS:  So that would be where

       9      to go with that issue.

      10             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Okay.

      11             DR. HILLARY KUNINS:  And let me say, when we,

      12      the City Health Department, has taken on educating

      13      prescribers, which is I think a different -- a

      14      slightly different model, it's not -- it's to

      15      educate all prescribers to reduce short-term

      16      prescribing used as the minimal amount of opioids as

      17      needed in order to prevent the development of

      18      addiction.

      19             So we've taken, very much, a

      20      preventive-oriented approach to reduce exposure and

      21      reduce development of addiction.

      22             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Is there any state

      23      legislation that you need, your agency, in being

      24      able to administer your functions and do that

      25      appropriately?







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       1             Is there any legislation that you need at the

       2      state level?

       3             DR. HILLARY KUNINS:  Let me get back to you.

       4             SENATOR GOLDEN:  If you can, please.

       5             The Task Force is more than willing.

       6             Like I said, we'll have it done within

       7      six weeks; the latest, two months to three months.

       8      We'll have it not only written, drafted, we'll have

       9      it passed in the State Senate, and sent over to the

      10      Assembly for their approval and their passage.

      11             SENATOR AMEDORE:  Doctor, I haven't -- you

      12      didn't mention anything about housing.

      13             We've talked a little bit about treatment,

      14      but part of the -- I believe the process of

      15      treatment, whether it's medically assisted or not,

      16      what about housing?

      17             I'm hearing a lot that there's not that

      18      transitional, that sober, that safe haven, that

      19      someone who has -- is going through, or just right

      20      after, can't go home, in many cases, because of the

      21      effects of maybe the influence of friends or family.

      22             What's the City doing about that?

      23             DR. HILLARY KUNINS:  So I think part of the

      24      housing problem is also an affordable housing

      25      problem, and I know our administration is very







                                                                   118
       1      actively working on that.

       2             One model that is very promising, in terms of

       3      connecting housing and stability for people with

       4      addiction, is the community-residence idea.  That is

       5      a model OASAS, this is a State function, has

       6      recently funded a new community residence in

       7      Staten Island.

       8             And I think that's a great model and example

       9      of how to move to more therapeutically-oriented

      10      housing for people who need it who have addictions.

      11             SENATOR AMEDORE:  Thank you.

      12             SENATOR GOLDEN:  We're going to go to the

      13      audience, with the Department of Health, and then

      14      come back and we're going to deal with the testimony

      15      for Stephanie Campbell from Friends of Recovery.

      16             Any question for the Department of Health and

      17      the City of New York from the audience.

      18             COLIN HICKS:  Hi.  My name is Colin Hicks,

      19      and I'm a recovering heroin addict.  I'm in recovery

      20      now for two years; I'm two-years clean, just about.

      21             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Congratulations.

      22             COLIN HICKS:  Thank you.

      23                  [Applause.]

      24             COLIN HICKS:  My question is, mainly, is

      25      it -- I want to ask:  Would it be safe to assume







                                                                   119
       1      that in the most recent years, the level -- or, the

       2      amount, I should say, of Suboxone, methadone, any of

       3      those, you know, medically-assisted preventive

       4      measures, have increased in the last few years?

       5             DR. HILLARY KUNINS:  Do you mean the

       6      availability?

       7             COLIN HICKS:  No, not -- the amounts that

       8      they're being used by medical professionals; that

       9      they're prescribed, that they're used as a form of

      10      treatment.

      11             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Use the microphone, please,

      12      Doctor.  Thank you.

      13             DR. HILLARY KUNINS:  Methadone, no.

      14             There have been some increases in the use of

      15      buprenorphine, yes.

      16             COLIN HICKS:  Okay.  My major focus is that,

      17      going off of the previous presentation that we saw,

      18      the level of heroin abuse and overall opiate abuse

      19      has done nothing but increase in the recent years to

      20      a staggering amount.

      21             And my question, more so, is maybe outside of

      22      your area of responsibility, but, I personally

      23      believe that too much emphasis might be put on this

      24      as a go-to treatment for something like this.

      25             To me it seems more like, you know, an acute







                                                                   120
       1      treatment for a chronic disease.  You know, it

       2      doesn't really do much.

       3             We talked about eliminating the stigma that

       4      surrounds this.  And I feel like this -- you know,

       5      these treatments do nothing but enforce that stigma,

       6      because, instead of going out to seek the help that

       7      can really change some of these people's lives, they

       8      say, Oh, well, we can go to the doctor and just take

       9      a pill, or, you can take this Suboxone, and it will

      10      go away, and, you know, our families and friends

      11      won't have to know about it, and you can go on with

      12      your life and pretend that this isn't an issue

      13      anymore; when, in fact, it is an issue.

      14             I myself have tried these measures in the

      15      past and they did nothing but prolong my abuse, and

      16      make it to a point where I thought it was almost

      17      acceptable, that I could almost live with it.

      18             And it wasn't until I got to the point where

      19      I had to embrace the idea that complete abstinence

      20      was the only way possible to get over this.  And,

      21      obviously, I had to eliminate stigma issues in my

      22      life in order to do that.

      23             But I think that, you know, we can all agree

      24      that that stigma is one of the biggest things that

      25      stands in the way of us really attacking this issue







                                                                   121
       1      head on.

       2             And, in my opinion, I really think that these

       3      things are some of the things that stand in the way

       4      of eliminating that stigma.

       5                  [Applause.]

       6             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Thank you very much.

       7             SENATOR AMEDORE:  Yes, thank you for

       8      you're -- thank you for your dedication and sticking

       9      with it.  And you have a community supporting you

      10      all around.

      11             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Isn't it much better having

      12      a clean life, not having to worry about it every

      13      morning?

      14             Don't you feel great?

      15             Doesn't -- don't you enjoy life better today?

      16             You can smell that air, you smell the roses,

      17      you feel great about yourself?

      18             And your friends and family love you, and

      19      they always did.

      20             You just, at some point, let yourself down

      21      and let your family down, but you found your way

      22      home.

      23             God bless you.

      24             God bless you.

      25             Doctor, you had one more thing, I want to ask







                                                                   122
       1      you, is the -- you said that you've seen a rise in

       2      heroin before the I-STOP.

       3             How much of a rise did you see in that?

       4             And when did --

       5             DR. HILLARY KUNINS:  I can't speak year --

       6      I don't have the year-by-year statistics.

       7             I think that we believe that -- and you've

       8      heard this story today, is people get exposed to

       9      prescription painkillers, develop an addiction, find

      10      their way to heroin, which is sometimes available --

      11             SENATOR GOLDEN:  It's the same, yeah.

      12             DR. HILLARY KUNINS:  -- and cheaper.

      13             And so that progression, regardless of

      14      I-STOP, was beginning to happen in New York City and

      15      other places.

      16             But we know this from the rise in mortality

      17      from heroin even before I-STOP actually went into

      18      effect.

      19             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Well, people wouldn't

      20      recognize it, that it just went into effect.

      21             The -- but I'm glad it's working, at least on

      22      the prescription portion of this, the opiates, and

      23      the Vicodin and other pill forms.

      24             But heroin is definitely ripping our

      25      communities apart, and our families, and we have to







                                                                   123
       1      do something about it.

       2             And, again, I want to thank you, Doctor, for

       3      all the good work.

       4             SENATOR AMEDORE:  Thank you, Doctor.

       5             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Stephanie Campbell from the

       6      Friends In Recovery.

       7             Please.

       8             STEPHANIE CAMPBELL:  First of all, good

       9      afternoon.

      10             Thank you, Senator Golden, for the

      11      opportunity to be here and to present testimony.

      12             Thank you to Senator Amedore for the

      13      extraordinary work he and his colleague

      14      Senator Murphy are doing in the Senate, and in

      15      really hearing us, and working on this issue.

      16             I am Stephanie Campbell, and as the director

      17      of policy for Friends of Recovery New York, I am

      18      honored to be here at today's hearing to discuss how

      19      we can address the public-health crisis of addiction

      20      in New York State.

      21             Friends of Recovery New York represents the

      22      voice of individuals and families living in recovery

      23      from addiction; families who have lost a family

      24      member or people who have been otherwise impacted by

      25      addiction.







                                                                   124
       1             The stigma, as we've heard, and shame that

       2      surrounds addiction, has prevented millions of

       3      individuals and family members from seeking help.

       4             For New York is dedicated to breaking down

       5      the barriers created by stigma that result in

       6      discrimination and policies that block or interfere

       7      with recovery, which includes access to treatment --

       8      addiction treatment, health care, housing,

       9      education, and employment.

      10             But I'm also Stephanie Campbell who's a

      11      person in long-term recovery; and what that means,

      12      is that I've not used alcohol or drugs in over

      13      15 years.

      14                  [Applause.]

      15             STEPHANIE CAMPBELL:  Recovery has given me

      16      the opportunity to be a wife, a mother, an employee,

      17      a New York State taxpayer, instead of a tax strain,

      18      who gives back to her community.

      19             I've gotten three master's degrees as the

      20      result of my not using drugs.

      21             SENATOR GOLDEN:  I'll take one of them.

      22             STEPHANIE CAMPBELL:  We'll talk.

      23                  [Laughter.]

      24             STEPHANIE CAMPBELL:  And I'm just

      25      extraordinarily grateful for this gift.







                                                                   125
       1             I went from being a homeless street kid on

       2      St. Mark's Place, that didn't have a home, and

       3      didn't have a life, to being who I am today.

       4             And so I'm extraordinarily grateful for that.

       5             So as you know, heroin use, we've been

       6      talking about that, and prescription and opiate

       7      abuse, are having devastating effects on public

       8      health and safety in New York State.

       9             The Centers for Disease Control and

      10      Prevention recently announced that drug overdoses

      11      now surpass automobile accidents as the leading

      12      cause of injury-related deaths for Americans between

      13      the ages of 25 to 64.

      14             Every day, more than 129 Americans die as a

      15      result of drug overdoses, and over half of those

      16      deaths are related to prescription drugs.

      17             And last month, as we heard, in Buffalo,

      18      23 people perished from drug overdoses.

      19             At one of our recent For New York recovery

      20      talks, Bridget Brennan, who you heard from earlier

      21      today, noted that, while heroin-overdose deaths

      22      affect white neighborhoods as never before, in

      23      New York City, the worst damage is found in

      24      communities that have suffered the longest.

      25             The highest rate of heroin-overdose deaths is







                                                                   126
       1      in Hunts Point, Monthaven in The Bronx, where the

       2      problem is not new; and yet, in contrast, a

       3      Staten Island community once untouched by heroin is

       4      second highest.

       5             So we know that addiction does not

       6      discriminate.  It knows no bounds of race,

       7      ethnicity, creed, sexual orientation, gender

       8      identity, religion, or lack of religion.  It impacts

       9      those from Park Avenue to park bench.

      10             And, so, as this epidemic is multifaceted, so

      11      must be our response.

      12             As a member of the recovery community, I know

      13      that my voice and my experience is invaluable

      14      because I've found an effective solution to my

      15      struggle with addiction.

      16             Unfortunately, thousands of people have not

      17      been able to access recovery because there simply

      18      are not enough dollars and resources for recovery

      19      services for individuals and families.

      20             And while countless hearings have been going

      21      on across the state, recommendations calling for the

      22      same resounding need of additional dollars to the

      23      New York State budget appear to have been ignored.

      24      Little is being done to address the overwhelming

      25      evidence that shows that community-based recovery







                                                                   127
       1      services and peer supports are needed to help

       2      individuals with addiction build and sustain their

       3      recovery.

       4             Given this urgency, I call on our leaders in

       5      the Legislature and the Governor's Office to take

       6      immediate actions to address the current addiction

       7      crisis in New York State.

       8             We must see an immediate increase in funding

       9      to the OASAS budget by a minimum of $50 million that

      10      would be an investment in recovery.

      11             And I know it sounds like, "$50 million," but

      12      it's a drop in the bucket.

      13             And we've heard folks talk about addiction

      14      being treated as a crisis.

      15             And so once folks get out of -- if they're

      16      lucky enough to get into treatment, and they get out

      17      of treatment, they go back into their communities

      18      and there's is no support available, so we're

      19      setting them up to fail.

      20             Sorry, I just wanted to reiterate that.

      21             So the money that we're asking for would fund

      22      recovery organizations and centers.  It would fund

      23      the implementation of recovery coaches and

      24      family-support navigators in every county across the

      25      state.  It would help individuals and families







                                                                   128
       1      across New York State who are not accessing critical

       2      lifesaving treatment, get the help that they need.

       3             Right now, we have an army of people with

       4      lived experience -- individuals in recovery, family

       5      members in recovery, and families who have lost

       6      someone to addiction -- ready, willing, and able to

       7      provide the recovery infrastructure desperately

       8      needed in their communities across the state;

       9      infrastructure, similar to what is being provided in

      10      places like the Brooklyn Community Recovery Center,

      11      which is a community-responsive, peer-driven support

      12      center that provides recovery services.  They

      13      facilitate referrals, they mobilize resources, they

      14      link individuals to community social supports, that

      15      assist people in their recovery from addiction, as

      16      well as other recovery issues.

      17             But they, and thousands of individuals and

      18      family members impacted by addiction, need your

      19      investment to do so.

      20             We see that solution to the addiction crisis

      21      lies in increased funding, legislation, and policies

      22      that sustain recovery, support health and civic

      23      engagement, for individuals and families affected by

      24      addiction.

      25             I've sat in the same rooms as you in numerous







                                                                   129
       1      hearings across the state, and in each of these

       2      hearings, we've heard the same thing:  That, simply,

       3      there isn't enough dollars and resources being

       4      invested in the solution of recovery.

       5             The end result is that people who get out of

       6      treatment are not getting the community services and

       7      supports they need to keep them from relapsing back

       8      into active use, and, too often, they die.

       9             We need to act now before another 23 families

      10      in Brooklyn, in Buffalo, or any other community

      11      across New York State, lose another loved one to the

      12      chronic, treatable disease of addiction.

      13             Thank you for your time.

      14                  [Applause.]

      15             SENATOR AMEDORE:  Thank you, Stephanie.

      16             Just for on the record, full disclosure in

      17      the audience, Stephanie Campbell has been such an

      18      instrumental advocate for not just for New York and

      19      everyone in recovery.

      20             You heard her story.

      21             This is someone who lives, who has had a

      22      horrible past, but such an astonishing and

      23      successful present, and a great future, because of

      24      her experience.

      25             And she has, literally, gone to just about







                                                                   130
       1      every single Task Force hearing that we have had

       2      throughout the state.  It seems like, sometimes,

       3      we're bumper-to-bumper going to these things.

       4             And her story just keeps going, and she has

       5      made such a huge impact in so many people.

       6             I've spoken to individuals who are hard-core

       7      users, who sometimes they'll come to a Task Force

       8      hearing and they will testify, and they will share.

       9             And, what can we do?

      10             How can we in the State Legislature help

      11      someone who is actively using?

      12             And she listens, and she doesn't speak every

      13      single time, publicly testify like she did today.

      14      But I've watched her after individuals speak, and

      15      the amount of care and the hugs and the service that

      16      I know that she is helping with those individuals is

      17      making a huge difference.

      18             And so I want to thank you for that,

      19      Stephanie.

      20             And to your point, and your request, you

      21      know, I sometimes think that your $50 million asked

      22      for the increase to OASAS is way too small, because

      23      it takes so much more, and this is a large state.

      24      And just think about, just Brooklyn alone,

      25      $50 million.







                                                                   131
       1             And there's many providers here, and even the

       2      doctor representing the Health Department in the

       3      city, would say, Man, that's just a drop in the

       4      bucket.

       5             We in the Senate are working on, and asking

       6      for, I believe even much more than that.

       7             Let's see where it goes, and what we can do.

       8             But, again, it's a multi-prong approach.

       9             And I have -- and I'm sure that there are

      10      family members in the room in the audience today,

      11      this afternoon, who wish that they could have a

      12      family-support navigator alongside of them, and they

      13      don't know where to go.  What is a family-support

      14      navigator?

      15             And that service alone, that coach, or that

      16      mentor, is so crucial, I believe, for an entire

      17      family to just make each step, day by day, and how

      18      they can cope, but how they can overcome the

      19      stronghold in their family's life.

      20             And it can, as we heard that young gentleman

      21      right there, overcome.

      22             And, so, I love to hear the victories, and

      23      the testimony.  And, you know, it gives me a great

      24      deal of motivation to continue on this fight,

      25      because it's a hard uphill battle, but all of us







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       1      together can make a big difference in this.

       2             So thank you for being here today.

       3             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Thank you very much,

       4      Stephanie.

       5             Thank you very much for your testimony.

       6                  [Applause]

       7             SENATOR GOLDEN:  If you could leave your

       8      testimony behind, we'd like to have that as part of

       9      the testimony for the -- and I hope we got the other

      10      testimony from the previous.

      11             I'm going to call now the next group.

      12             Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to start

      13      with a parent that is here with us today, and then

      14      followed by Donna Mae DePaolo, the president & CEO

      15      of Resource Training and Counseling.

      16             And then we'll go to Bill Fusco, the

      17      executive director of Dynamic Youth.

      18             Donna Mae, can we introduce the parent?  Can

      19      you introduce, if you wish?

      20             DONNA MAE DePAOLO:  Sure -- yes, I'm sorry.

      21      Every time Ann Marie speaks, I get emotional.

      22             But, this is Ann Marie Pirada (ph.), and

      23      she's our new director of operations for the new

      24      detox that we will probably be opening July 1st.

      25      So...







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       1             ANN MARIE PIRADA (ph.):  Hi.

       2             On April 10, 2011, I lost my son Christopher

       3      to a prescription-drug overdose at the age of 22.

       4      My son not only had a drug addiction, but a

       5      mental-health disease.

       6             As you may know, drug addiction stem from not

       7      only mental-health disease, but also by peer

       8      pressure and lack of education, knowledge, and

       9      awareness of what these drugs do to you physically,

      10      mentally, and how it destroys your loved ones.

      11             There should be education for all medical

      12      fields, law enforcement, board of education,

      13      parents, children, and the community on prevention,

      14      along with understanding that this is a disease and

      15      it should be treated as if.

      16             For instance, if your child or relative had

      17      cancer, you support him, get the correct medical

      18      attention, and support their disease.  As cancer, if

      19      you are in the recovery process, you will continue

      20      your treatment because of the unknown.

      21             My experience with this disease is that, not

      22      only were we treated as if we were criminals, but

      23      also looked at by the community as bad people, due

      24      to the lack of knowledge and education.

      25             There is too much judgment and not enough







                                                                   134
       1      knowledge.

       2             Also, as a parent, I was uneducated on this

       3      disease, and I took the advice of others because

       4      I didn't know where to turn and I was misinformed

       5      how to handle my problems with my son, like,

       6      tough-love.

       7             Kicking him out on the street and not

       8      standing by his bedside, fighting this disease,

       9      I did not follow my heart, and I live and suffer

      10      with the regret every day because, bad advice,

      11      I feel like I killed my son.

      12             My journey in life is to help others get the

      13      help that I could not get for my son.

      14             I went through courts.  I wrote letters to

      15      judges.  I went to treatment center after treatment

      16      center, and was denied the detox.

      17             It took me 12 1/2 hours one day to get my son

      18      help when he finally came to terms and said, "I need

      19      it."

      20             I went to rehab.  They said I couldn't put

      21      him in because he was on benzos, which were

      22      clonazepams and opioids.  Okay?

      23             I went to detox, and they said because he was

      24      on benzos they can't take him.

      25             I went to the emergency room and the doctor







                                                                   135
       1      said, "We can't help this," until they saw him

       2      popping -- taking the pills out of his underwear,

       3      because they stripped him down.  He had a stash in

       4      his underwear, and popping three and four pills at a

       5      time.

       6             They tied him down, and released him

       7      24 hours.

       8             When he got out, he wanted to come home, and

       9      I said, Sign yourself into a detox now.  You're

      10      allowed to.

      11             He didn't.

      12             A couple days later he came home and said,

      13      Ma, I went to the hospital because I -- my heart

      14      hurt.

      15             My son's lips were purple and swollen, so

      16      that's a sign of heart failure.

      17             I brought him to the hospital and I begged

      18      the emergency room to get the psych ward involved

      19      because my son was killing himself.

      20             Where else could I turn, because the courts,

      21      the police, rehab, detox, nobody was helping me.

      22             So I went to the emergency room for the psych

      23      ward.  I told them I'm not leaving here until my son

      24      is signed in.  That's it.

      25             I stayed until 2:00 in the morning, waiting







                                                                   136
       1      for the psychiatrist.

       2             They signed him in, and my son's last words

       3      to me were -- me and my son's last words were:

       4             "Christopher, I need you to grow old with

       5      me."

       6             And he said, "Mommy, I'm not going anywhere"

       7      because he had no clue on what was going to happen.

       8             He left me and his sister heartbroken.

       9             There's no help.

      10             And when you get the help, they treat you

      11      like garbage, because of this disease.  Nobody is

      12      educated on either/or.

      13             If you have a mental-health disease and a

      14      drug addiction, nobody wants to get their hands

      15      dirty, because it takes too long of a process to

      16      heal.

      17             And that's what my experience is with a lot

      18      of people: my son's friends, my son, family members.

      19             And I have parents coming to me because they

      20      saw my commercial.  I speak -- I spoke for the

      21      Health Department.  We came out with the I-STOP

      22      program.  I was there, I did the commercial for

      23      them.

      24             I speak with the DA, first, Dan Donovan, and

      25      now Mike.







                                                                   137
       1             I now work for Donna, because there is no

       2      judgment in the place that she has.  We will not

       3      deny anyone.  And if they are willing to get help,

       4      which, I still don't understand that part, because

       5      you're high, you're not in your right mind, and you

       6      have that right to go to jail or a drug program.

       7             Let's see, my son got arrested with

       8      234 pills.  They said 30 days in jail, or, go to a

       9      drug program.

      10             What would you choose?

      11             He was not in his right mind, and he

      12      shouldn't have had that right, no matter what age he

      13      was.

      14             The doctor -- what I think is, a court should

      15      give at least three months' evaluation if they think

      16      they're a drug user, a mental evaluation and a drug

      17      evaluation, and then they should be placed.

      18             This needs to be funded, because just

      19      throwing them in jail or giving them the option,

      20      there should be no option.  They're not in their

      21      right mind.

      22             Law enforcement has no education about this.

      23      They get annoyed when you call them to try to come

      24      and help you.

      25             Denial.







                                                                   138
       1             Treatment centers, I spoke about.

       2             When you're in treatment centers, they like

       3      to kick you out quick for the little things that you

       4      do.

       5             Now, withdrawal comes with behavioral

       6      problems, and everybody should understand this.

       7             We not only have to educate, but we have to

       8      stop denying that there's an opioid and heroin

       9      problem.

      10             And everybody, as you said before, is in

      11      denial.

      12             How my son started with these pills, is he

      13      got into a minor car accident, and a doctor

      14      prescribed him "perc 30s," that they call it, right,

      15      for a minor back injury.

      16             My son got a list of doctors that you could

      17      get drugs from -- these drugs from.

      18             When I went to bring him into a program, they

      19      gave me another list, because they wouldn't accept

      20      him in that program unless he was on Suboxones.

      21             300 to 500 dollars a prescription, and $300

      22      for the visit, okay, to try to get you off the

      23      Suboxone-- the opioids.

      24             The doctors are still writing prescriptions,

      25      but now for a higher price, because of the risk.







                                                                   139
       1             That's right, they should get their license

       2      taken away.  They went to school to save our

       3      children or save our lives, and they're killing us.

       4             That's how the heroin epidemic came about, is

       5      the doctors writing these prescriptions.

       6             So, we are opening a detox in Brooklyn

       7      because of the need and demand in our community.

       8      Our detox center will be a no-judgment zone.

       9             And if we cannot take them into our facility

      10      due to medical issues, we will take them to a

      11      facility that will fulfill their needs, and not just

      12      throw them into the street.

      13             And that's another problem we have.

      14             But, we won't stop there, because I didn't

      15      have anybody to turn to.

      16             We will not only treat the addict, but we are

      17      treating the family as well.  We feel it is

      18      necessary to help families that lost their children,

      19      and families that are struggling to keep their

      20      children alive.

      21             Thank you.

      22                  [Applause.]

      23             SENATOR GOLDEN:  No, thank you.

      24             And there are a number of children in this

      25      audience today -- or, I shouldn't say children --







                                                                   140
       1      young men and women that have been given a gift by

       2      God, by having the ability to get into a program and

       3      save their lives, and to be able to bring their

       4      families together.

       5             Unfortunately, that did not happen with you.

       6             And you're not the only mother out there that

       7      is without a son or a daughter.

       8             And, unfortunately, someone today in this

       9      community, or close to this community, will have the

      10      same; they will lose a son or a daughter to this

      11      terrible, terrible scourge of heroin.

      12             All I can say is, that my prayers go out to

      13      you.

      14             But I would ask you strongly, do not live the

      15      burden that you think you killed your child.

      16             You did not.

      17             You did everything that you could possibly

      18      do.

      19             So, please, for your own sake, don't live

      20      with that.  You're a young woman, you have many

      21      years ahead of you.

      22             We all feel your pain here today, but don't

      23      live with that burden.  Please.

      24             And thank you for your testimony.

      25             ANN MARIE PIRADA (ph.):  Thank you.







                                                                   141
       1                  [Applause.]

       2             DONNA MAE DePAOLO:  Hi.

       3             My name is Donna Mae DePaolo.  I'm the

       4      president & CEO, Resource Counseling & Training

       5      Center.

       6             We have two outpatients, thanks to

       7      Senator Marty Golden and the Community Board 10.

       8             We recently opened in Bay Ridge because of

       9      the opiate problem.

      10             I think Billy Fusco and all the other people

      11      at the table probably can -- for me to go through

      12      the same thing again and answer these questions,

      13      I think will be redundant, so I'm going pass it on

      14      to Billy, actually.

      15             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Bill, before you start, is

      16      there -- I seen somebody else from Staten Island

      17      from another detox group.

      18             Who was here just a little while ago?

      19             Did he leave?

      20             No?

      21             I thought I seen someone either from TASK or

      22      from a day tox.

      23             Okay.

      24             I'm sorry.

      25             Go ahead.







                                                                   142
       1             WILLIAM FUSCO:  I usually don't read, so bear

       2      with me.

       3             I will start --

       4             SENATOR GOLDEN:  You can read, Bill.

       5             WILLIAM FUSCO:  -- (unintelligible), but then

       6      what I'm going to do, is I'm going to go to my old

       7      self and talk off the cuff, which is more my style.

       8             SENATOR GOLDEN:  I like your Brooklyn-ese.

       9             WILLIAM FUSCO:  And, you know, this is my

      10      neighborhood.

      11             Me and Donna Mae grew up in the same

      12      neighborhood, a couple blocks from each other,

      13      although we hung out in different crowds, but, same

      14      idea, Sunset Park.

      15             And let me just say for myself, I was a very

      16      lucky young man, because I was in a lot of trouble

      17      at 23 years old, and I found my way into a drug

      18      program through very little effort of my own, you

      19      know.  There was a guiding force that I didn't

      20      understand at the time, but it gave me a chance

      21      to -- it gave me a second chance, instead of going

      22      to prison.

      23             And in that process, I really believe that

      24      I've lived my life, understanding that I owe back,

      25      and it's been the most important thing in my life,







                                                                   143
       1      to be able to owe back and see what we -- where we

       2      are today.

       3             Like some of us at this table, I'll just say

       4      that we're in the eye of a hurricane.

       5             So what I see is, many times, some of the

       6      victories, Senator Golden and Senator Amedore, and

       7      we're seeing really wonderful, wonderful victories.

       8      People going to -- back to college.  Some becoming

       9      physicians' assistants, nurses --

      10             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Bill, if I can stop you

      11      short?

      12             Are there some of the victories here in the

      13      community, if they could stand up?

      14             WILLIAM FUSCO:  Absolutely.

      15             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Some of the victories in

      16      this community want to stand up, please.

      17             Stand up, kids.

      18             Give these kids a round of applause, ladies

      19      and gentlemen.

      20                  [Applause.]

      21             WILLIAM FUSCO:  And on the other hand, let me

      22      just say about this epidemic, that we don't go past

      23      a week without hearing of somebody passing away.

      24             So let me just start with my testimony, and

      25      then I'm going to read a little letter that was from







                                                                   144
       1      a while back, from a Marie DeGregorio (ph.) from

       2      this neighborhood here.

       3             Good afternoon.

       4             My name is William Fusco, and I'm The

       5      executive director of Dynamic Youth Community.

       6             DYC's main offices are located in Brooklyn.

       7      We have a residential program located in Fallsburg,

       8      New York.

       9             For over 43 years, we have been providing

      10      long-term residential treatment and outpatient

      11      services to adolescents and young adults between the

      12      ages of 13 and 25.

      13             I am testifying on behalf of all the young

      14      people and their families we serve, as well as the

      15      hundreds and thousands of people who are struggling

      16      with opiate addiction.

      17             Thank you, Senator Golden, Senator Amedore,

      18      and Senator Murphy, and Senator Ortt, for inviting

      19      me to testify today.

      20             I am pleased to provide my recommendations on

      21      how we could work together to fight this epidemic

      22      that has destroyed so many lives over the last

      23      decade.

      24             Beginning in 2008, DYC saw a shift in drug

      25      use from street drugs, crack cocaine, and other







                                                                   145
       1      drugs, to prescription drugs; specifically, opiates.

       2             It quickly became apparent to us that young

       3      people were able to access these drugs much easier

       4      than street drugs.

       5             As we began to understand how highly

       6      addictive and potent these drugs are, early in 2008,

       7      we began to alert OASAS officials, community

       8      leaders, and legislators, educators, and the media,

       9      about this new trend and the danger we feared.

      10             We were met with much resistance from most of

      11      the people we talked to; people just couldn't

      12      understand that this was possible.  They certainly

      13      didn't want to believe it would bring us to where we

      14      are today.

      15             It is important for me to note that, very

      16      early on, Senator Golden and his staff were highly

      17      concerned about what we were reporting, and

      18      continually made efforts for us to express our

      19      concerns to the appropriate officials.

      20             Unfortunately, it took a number of years, too

      21      many, in my opinion, for a call of action to occur.

      22             By 2015, 23 percent of our admissions

      23      reported prescription drugs, and 72 percent are

      24      heroin, primary drug.  This total is 99 percent of

      25      our members in Dynamite, which number over 175.







                                                                   146
       1      99 percent are addicted to one degree of opiate or

       2      another.

       3             And if I can just say, when we first started

       4      to see this, it was 20 and 30 percent.  There's

       5      always been some heroin in Brooklyn, always.

       6      Brighton Beach was a hotbed of heroin for years and

       7      years in the '80s and '90s.

       8             But the spike that happened, from 20 percent

       9      heroin, to 72 percent, you know, is something that

      10      has never happened for us in Dynamic.

      11             And what we're trying to do is adjust; adjust

      12      as fast and as quickly as we possibly can to the

      13      demands that this takes on.

      14             Where we are today?

      15             We have I-STOP; a statewide public-awareness

      16      campaign; widespread availability of naloxone;

      17      limited expansion of treatment options, such as

      18      additional residential beds and medication-assisted

      19      treatment; and, in comparison to the enormity of the

      20      problem, a small amount of additional funds to

      21      address this issue.

      22             Still, we need to do more.

      23             According to the National Institute of Drug

      24      Abuse, 2014, there were 11,000 deaths in the

      25      United States from heroin, 18,000 from opioid pain







                                                                   147
       1      relievers.

       2             This is tragic.

       3             In New York State, overdose deaths continue

       4      to rise.

       5             We need to do more.

       6             Providing the appropriate level of treatment

       7      for someone with an addiction is often a challenge.

       8      There is no magic bullet; yet, there are options.

       9             This can't be a one-size-fits-all approach.

      10             For example, researchers from Harvard Medical

      11      School and Dartmouth College determined that young

      12      people between the age of 18 and 25 were

      13      substantially less likely to stay involved in

      14      buprenorphine programs than older adults.

      15             In other studies conducted by CSAT,

      16      researchers concluded that for adolescents and young

      17      adults, family involvement greatly improved

      18      treatment success.

      19             OASAS has licensed providers need-- OASAS

      20      must provide more resources for these approaches.

      21             Whether the approach is being -- is long-term

      22      residential, outpatient, or medical --

      23      medicated-assisted treatment -- I like to say

      24      "treatment assisted by medication" -- with

      25      counseling, more resources, and expedited







                                                                   148
       1      application processes should be implemented

       2      immediately.

       3             In addition, programs and activities that

       4      raise awareness need to be implemented statewide.

       5             DYC has always considered it a responsibility

       6      to talk to the community, especially the kids, on

       7      the dangers of drugs.  We have been doing this for

       8      43 years.

       9             About a year and a half ago, DYC and

      10      Kings Bay Y were awarded a grant to raise awareness

      11      in the Brooklyn Russian-speaking community about

      12      opiate addiction.  This initiative has been

      13      extremely beneficial.

      14             In DYC alone, we have had over 40 admissions

      15      as a direct result of our work.

      16             Hundreds of phone calls came in as a result

      17      of weekly radio shows we participated in, and we

      18      were able to direct people to the appropriate level

      19      of care they needed.

      20             We should be doing more projects like this

      21      statewide that focus on the specific needs of a

      22      community.

      23             We are still amazed at how little people know

      24      about this issue, but, at the same time, we see a

      25      shift in the stigma, especially among our young







                                                                   149
       1      people.  They are reaching out and asking more and

       2      more questions.

       3             Everybody knows somebody who is addicted to

       4      drugs.

       5             Once again, I would like to thank

       6      Senator Golden and members of the Joint Senate Task

       7      Force on Heroin and Opiate Addiction for the

       8      opportunity to testify today.

       9             In 2012, and I'm not going to read the whole

      10      thing, but, Marie DeGregorio, who lives on

      11      73rd Street, which is a walking distance from

      12      here, you could be there in five minutes, she

      13      writes:

      14             "Today, on January 12, 2012, I've come home

      15      from another funeral.  Sad and heartbreaking,

      16      Giuseppe had just turned 18, and died of a drug

      17      overdose.

      18             "I feel myself" -- "I find myself feeling

      19      helpless and angry, and so angry.  I can't help but

      20      think that this could have been my child, my little

      21      girl.  Giuseppe's tragedy could have been my

      22      family's nightmare.

      23             "I feel such anger and rage.  Number eight,

      24      the eighth death of prescription overdose drugs in

      25      my neighborhood, Dyker Heights, Brooklyn, a good







                                                                   150
       1      neighborhood, with good kids, and private schools,

       2      coming from good families.

       3             "I can't help but feel rage.  I want to stand

       4      up on street corners and scream:  When?  When?  When

       5      is someone going to realize what is happening?  When

       6      is somebody going to do something about these drugs?

       7             "These are legal drugs.  These are legal

       8      drugs.  It is out of control.  It has become an

       9      epidemic.

      10             "I'm angry, so angry.

      11             "Doesn't anyone see what's happening?

      12      Doesn't anyone care?  Hello?  These kids are real.

      13      They are dying.  Why isn't anything being done?

      14             "I hear State wants to cut funds for drug

      15      treatment.  They want to minimize long-term

      16      treatment.  Are they crazy?  Are they trying to kill

      17      our kids?

      18             "There are many parents that share my anger

      19      and we are tired of being neglected and overlooked."

      20             She goes on to explain that her daughter came

      21      into Dynamite, and is in her eleventh month at the

      22      time, in 2012.  And that she found out that her

      23      daughter was on drugs, because she had a skiing

      24      accident; and in having the skiing accident, they

      25      needed to give her some narcotics to ease the pain.







                                                                   151
       1             Well, they gave her the most massive -- they

       2      gave her as much narcotics as they possibly could

       3      give her, and she was still in tremendous pain.

       4             So, there, the light bulb finally went off,

       5      and they realized they had a daughter that was

       6      addicted.

       7             Thank God, Alyssa (ph.), at this point, is

       8      now working to become a dental hygienist.  She is

       9      3 1/2-years clean, and doing very, very well for

      10      herself.

      11             I did want to read the last paragraph because

      12      it's very, I think, appropriate for where we are

      13      today, sitting here in Dyker Heights, because in the

      14      last paragraph, she says:

      15             "Please hear me, please, I beg of you for our

      16      children, grandchildren, and nephews, brothers,

      17      sisters, and friends.  Please hear me as I rage

      18      inside for the lost lives of young kids and adults

      19      in my life and in my neighborhood.

      20             "Within four years of time, there have been

      21      eight deaths of overdoses.  Stephen, 16.

      22      Aisel (ph.), 17.  Gaitano, 23.  Mike, 20.

      23      Ahmid (ph.), 19.  Mario, 55.  Danny, 26.

      24      Giuseppe had just turned 18.  And my dear sweet

      25      loving brother Frank, who struggled with addiction







                                                                   152
       1      for years.

       2             "They didn't want to die.  This is something

       3      that is happening."

       4             This was addressed to Governor Cuomo in 2012.

       5             And I think, finally, there might be an

       6      answer to what's going on in the drug epidemic.

       7             And I can't applaud you guys more, you know,

       8      stepping forward.

       9             I've known Senator Golden for, you know, a

      10      number of years now, and he's a staunch supporter,

      11      and talks straight and direct.

      12             But, what we're starting to see now is all

      13      the parts of New York State coming together.

      14             As much as I say all of what I can say, I try

      15      to do my best with it.

      16             We got some guys from the program here.

      17      I could fill up this hall very easily if I had a

      18      little more time.

      19             But, we pulled some guys together that wanted

      20      to come and stand up, as you did with them, because

      21      our guys really do feel like that they want to let

      22      people know who they are, and what they're doing for

      23      themselves, so maybe it makes it a little easier for

      24      the next guy down the road who needs to come into a

      25      program.







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       1             I also want to say that, you know, what we're

       2      going to concentrate on right now is our workforce.

       3             Our workforce has been depleted tremendously.

       4             One of the things that really helps a program

       5      stay consistent is when you have a stabilized

       6      workforce.

       7             When you can only pay people $28,000, and

       8      $30,000, and $32,000, after 5 years worth of

       9      experience, they can't stick around.

      10             And that experience is so necessary for what

      11      we do.

      12             So, it may sound a little self-serving, but,

      13      we need to stabilize this workforce as best as

      14      possible, and we're going to be talking with you

      15      guys about that.

      16             The other thing I just want to do is extend

      17      an invitation to Senator Murphy, and you,

      18      Senator Amedore, to come visit programs.  Come out

      19      to Brooklyn, come see Dynamite, come see Donna Mae's

      20      program.  Come talk to the guys in there.

      21             That, to me, is the most -- that, to me, is

      22      the biggest, we call it -- I'll call it "a learning

      23      experience."  We have another term for that.

      24             But, a learning experience that you can have,

      25      because, you know, right there, I think, when I need







                                                                   154
       1      my batteries charged, I talk to these guys, you

       2      know.

       3             And I know sometimes in the work that you're

       4      doing, maybe once in a while, coming to a program

       5      would help you, and help you get your batteries

       6      charged a little bit.

       7             So, with that, I thank you again.

       8                  [Applause.]

       9             SENATOR GOLDEN:  We're not out here to give

      10      any advertisements.

      11             Of course, you all do a very hard job, and

      12      you continue to do that each and every day.

      13             But, you know you're live.  Right?

      14             So, as you're live, we're getting a number of

      15      e-mails, responding.

      16             I got one here, and I don't know if I should

      17      go live -- I won't go live with the name.

      18             "Dynamite Youth Center is an amazing staff,

      19      saved my life.  The heroin epidemic is out of

      20      control and we're losing our kids.  If you have a

      21      teen, young adult, struggling with addiction, go to

      22      Dynamite.  They're located," and give your address.

      23      "You will not regret it."

      24             And that is people responding to what's going

      25      on here today across our community.







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       1             So, your son went home.  Many sons and

       2      daughters have gone home.

       3             Many of our kids, young men and young women,

       4      unfortunately, go out a second time, or third time.

       5             There may be no second chance.

       6             There may be no third chance.

       7             And I think your letter comes to the point,

       8      and your testimony here today goes to the point, we

       9      need to get more services and more money into

      10      programs.

      11             We need to get more people out of addiction

      12      and into these programs, and we need to be able to

      13      support the families during, before, and after the

      14      crisis.

      15             So I want to thank you, Bill, for your

      16      comments here today.

      17             And yours, Donna Mae, as well.

      18                  [Applause.]

      19             SENATOR AMEDORE:  Mr. Fusco, if I may ask you

      20      a question.

      21             You mentioned in your testimony, either --

      22      what do you think the State or OASAS could do more

      23      of or better?

      24             WILLIAM FUSCO:  Well, there's a list.

      25             SENATOR AMEDORE:  Could you please write that







                                                                   156
       1      list out and send it over to us?

       2             WILLIAM FUSCO:  On the top of that list is,

       3      really, access to treatment when people are -- when

       4      people are -- you know, when people are ready, you

       5      know.

       6             As I think, Senator, you would understand,

       7      you know, a lot of times, there's a window of

       8      opportunity that you have.  Sometimes it's 48 hours.

       9             SENATOR AMEDORE:  About this big.

      10             WILLIAM FUSCO:  Exactly.

      11             SENATOR AMEDORE:  It's almost immediate when

      12      they need it.

      13             WILLIAM FUSCO:  And you've got to be able to

      14      act and get somebody in, and get somebody clean and

      15      started.

      16             We try to bring people in on -- if they -- if

      17      they -- if we interview them and they are for us,

      18      and they want to be there, we start them right then,

      19      right that -- at that moment, that's when they

      20      start.  And then we figure out everything later,

      21      sometimes at the expense of --

      22             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Finding the beds, everything

      23      else, we're going to come to those questions very

      24      shortly.

      25             SENATOR AMEDORE:  That's the insurance and







                                                                   157
       1      the whole nine yards.  And it's a matter of --

       2             UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  If I could just answer

       3      on the -- on the ask --

       4             SENATOR AMEDORE:  Sure.

       5             UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  -- you know, that's

       6      what we were referring to in the testimony, and

       7      that's a couple of things.

       8             One is that, to put up a new bed, and what it

       9      takes, the process, and how long it is, is part of

      10      the problem.

      11             So one of the things we're asking for is

      12      expedited application process so we can get these

      13      things moving quicker.

      14             Some agencies, like Dynamite, and other

      15      agencies, have property, we have a building, we

      16      have -- so we can move it along quicker in that

      17      case.

      18             The other thing we're asking for is, when you

      19      talk about medication-assisted treatment, and

      20      I really wish Hillary was still here, because one of

      21      the things that we're seeing in Brooklyn, I have a

      22      list of 11 doctors who prescribe Suboxone.  All of

      23      them accept cash only.  All of them have a minimum

      24      of $150 to walk in the door.  All of them have a

      25      system where, the patient comes in, they get their







                                                                   158
       1      buprenorphine every couple of weeks, and there's

       2      really no counseling attached to that.  Some of them

       3      won't even work with us.  Some of them have gone as

       4      far as saying to the patient that they don't need

       5      residential treatment as long as they take this

       6      prescription, and they maybe combine it with

       7      something else.

       8             So, there's opportunists out there; there's

       9      people out there that are taking advantage of this

      10      epidemic in a way that's hurting people in the long

      11      run, because it's allowing them to stay addicted.

      12      They're really just maintaining.

      13             And that's what Colin was talking about

      14      before.

      15             So we ask that OASAS, and if we can, get the

      16      resources, the funding, to OASAS; give us the

      17      resources so that we can do this within our

      18      programs, and that you have under one roof, to be

      19      able to provide treatment to people in terms of what

      20      they need.

      21             Colin talked about in his experience getting

      22      to where he can be completely abstinent.

      23             You know, you can't do that in a doctor's

      24      office, you know.  And that may work for some.

      25             But what we're talking about here are the







                                                                   159
       1      resources to be able to do that.

       2             And, also, to maybe look and see what the

       3      doctors are doing, and to be aware of what the

       4      opportunists are bringing to this, because it's very

       5      disturbing to us, on the day-to-day, what we hear,

       6      and keep talking to the young people and the other

       7      people that are in treatment.

       8             WILLIAM FUSCO:  We certainly support

       9      medication when necessary, but we also think that

      10      there has to be some kind of treatment protocol

      11      attached to it for it to be anything that's

      12      substantial.

      13             And so, you know, whether it's outpatient or

      14      inpatient, you know, we also really feel, if we

      15      could dispense medication within our program, then

      16      we could detox somebody within the program, keep

      17      them under our guidance, and -- and, you know, keep

      18      them as part -- and get the peer support that's

      19      necessary for that.  And then, you know, obviously,

      20      try to give them the best protocol that we can.

      21             SENATOR AMEDORE:  I will tell you that most

      22      of all of the education and the knowledge that

      23      I have on this topic now, since chairing the

      24      Committee and co-chairing this Task Force, has not

      25      been just because of these task force.







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       1             I have been in many, many providers --

       2      treatment providers, inpatient, outpatient,

       3      services, you know, all throughout the

       4      Capitol Region area, and, it's my district, and

       5      there are so many.  And my district is five

       6      counties.  It's a 140-mile stretch of New York

       7      State.

       8             So that gives me the best feel, sense, is

       9      when I sit and talk to the individuals who are

      10      sitting in the audience today.  And they need to get

      11      involved.

      12             And they being here today is awesome.  They

      13      are involved.

      14             But we need to get them more involved, for

      15      their own sake, as well as to show everyone that,

      16      yeah, I was a user.  Look it.

      17             And you would never think that they ever

      18      were.

      19             But they overcame, and they're chains were

      20      loosened, and they overcame the stronghold in their

      21      life, and they are living victorious.  And now they

      22      need to continue to pass it forward, to help someone

      23      else.

      24             So, thank you, Bill, for your heart.

      25             WILLIAM FUSCO:  Oh, well, thank you.







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       1             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Karen from the --

       2      Karen Remy, chief program officer, Turning Point

       3      Community Services, followed by Josephine Beckmann,

       4      district manager, Community Board 10.

       5             KAREN REMY:  Thank you.

       6             Good afternoon to the Task Force Chairs,

       7      Senators Murphy, Amedore, and Ortt, to

       8      Senator Golden, staff, guests, and neighborhood

       9      residents.

      10             Thank you for the opportunity to testify

      11      before you today about the public-health issues

      12      related to heroin and opiate use in our

      13      neighborhood, and the roles we play in the

      14      prevention of increased use and overdoses.

      15             My name is Karen Remy.  I am the chief

      16      program officer for Turning Point Brooklyn.

      17             We have been serving the Sunset Park and

      18      neighboring areas for 40 years.

      19             We provide an array of services, including

      20      transitional and permanent housing, high school

      21      equivalency, English for speakers of other

      22      languages, and college job-readiness and placement.

      23             We also have HIV, hepatitis C,

      24      prevention-testing case management, and we have a

      25      needle exchange.







                                                                   162
       1             We have an outpatient drug treatment that is

       2      medically supervised and certified to administer

       3      Suboxone.

       4             I was born in Sunset Park, and raised in

       5      Bay Ridge and Dyker Heights.

       6             I am grateful to be speaking to you here

       7      today, not only as an expert in the treatment of

       8      addictions, but also as someone who cares for the

       9      neighborhood and its people.

      10             I also love someone with an opiate addiction.

      11             Today, I would like to impart information to

      12      you, as well as those seeking more knowledge on

      13      opiate and heroin addiction, those who are using

      14      drugs, and those who are concerned about someone who

      15      is using drugs.

      16             Just a little bit about our treatment

      17      program, which is located at 5220 4th Avenue in

      18      Sunset Park.

      19             56 percent of our clients in treatment are

      20      opiate-addicted: 47 percent to heroin, and 9 percent

      21      have a primary substance abuse of Oxycontin or other

      22      opiates.

      23             19 percent are in treatment for alcohol,

      24      6 percent for cocaine, and 2 for crack.

      25             Some of our clients have secondary drugs that







                                                                   163
       1      they use: Alcohol, 25 percent of our clients;

       2      cocaine, 21 percent; and marijuana, 11 percent.

       3             So why are we here today?

       4             We are here because the rate of

       5      heroin-involved overdose deaths increased each year

       6      from 2000 to 2014, for a cumulative 88 percent

       7      increase.

       8             We are here because heroin was involved in

       9      57 percent of all overdose deaths in New York City,

      10      making it the most common substance involved in

      11      overdose deaths.

      12             We are here because 55 percent of

      13      heroin-involved overdose deaths among New York City

      14      residents were among residents of Brooklyn:

      15      29 percent, which is 116 deaths, and, The Bronx,

      16      26 percent, which was 103 deaths, in 2014.

      17             We are here because, from 2013 to 2014, rates

      18      of heroin-involved overdose deaths more than double

      19      in Bensonhurst and Bay Ridge.

      20             We are here because, from 2013 to 2014,

      21      New Yorkers, age 35 to 54, have the highest rate of

      22      overdose deaths involving heroin.

      23             We are here because among New Yorkers, aged

      24      15 to 34, the rate of heroin-involved overdose

      25      deaths more than doubled in -- from -- in







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       1      2010 to 2014.

       2             We too are concerned about the trajectory

       3      from prescription opioid use to heroin use.

       4             Prescription opiate misuse remains one of

       5      America's biggest drug problems.

       6             In recent years, the number of people

       7      using -- misusing prescription pain relievers had

       8      leveled off; however, the number of people dying

       9      from overdoses continues to rise, and a new epidemic

      10      of heroin use has emerged, as many people misusing

      11      prescription opioids transitioned to the cheaper,

      12      often easier to obtain street-relative.

      13             So I have a couple more statistics that I'd

      14      like to share, and this is -- most of the next

      15      statistics are pertaining to young people.

      16             In 2011, 7 percent of New York City students

      17      in grades 9 through 12 reported past-year

      18      non-medical use of a pain reliever.

      19             That is information from the New York City

      20      Department of Health.

      21             There was a small study done by the NIDA,

      22      which is the "National Institute On Drug Abuse."

      23      And in this study, they worked with 33 young people,

      24      ages 18 to 32, and they reported non-medical pill

      25      use at least once in the past month.  All of them







                                                                   165
       1      said that their use was initiated, early, mid-teens

       2      while in high school, cost-free access via

       3      family-member prescriptions, and our friends with

       4      the same.

       5             Once this access is gone or dependence

       6      increased, they will return to street purchasing.

       7      Pills are expensive.  Heroin is cheap and longer

       8      lasting.

       9             92 percent of people who use pills proceed to

      10      heroin use.  24 percent start with injecting,

      11      75 percent with sniffing.  Within nine months, all

      12      had injected heroin.

      13             And there was -- and this cohort that they

      14      studied, there was a huge overdose risk because, you

      15      know, these were kind of un -- they were young

      16      people, and the purity of the drug was inconsistent,

      17      and just their lack of experience.

      18             The strongest predictors of initiating heroin

      19      use were non-oral use of prescription opioids.

      20             Early age of onset of illicit prescription

      21      opioids use was also a predictor of heroin

      22      initiation.

      23             So like I said, I just want to, you know,

      24      talk to all the people in the audience, who may be

      25      here for different reasons, and, you know, I want to







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       1      tell, you know, if you are somebody that is

       2      concerned about somebody, educate yourself.  You

       3      need to have a clear, knowledgeable understanding of

       4      what you and your loved one are going through.

       5             There are several -- there's two Facebook

       6      pages that I've been -- that I've been on, that have

       7      been very helpful.

       8             There's one called "The Addict's Mom."  And

       9      there's another one called "The Fix," which is for

      10      information.

      11             If you or someone you know is using and does

      12      not want to stop, learn how to use safely.  Use

      13      needle exchanges.  And find out about safe-use

      14      practices.

      15             Via the thrive new -- a program called

      16      "Thrive New York City," we are trying to increase

      17      the number of doctors who can prescribe Suboxone, a

      18      med that treats addiction by stopping cravings and

      19      withdrawal symptoms.

      20             The Mayor has a task force called "The Heroin

      21      and Prescription Opioid Public-Awareness Task

      22      Force."  It's chaired by Health Commissioner Bassett

      23      and Staten Island Borough President Oddo.  And I'm

      24      looking to them, as well as the other task forces

      25      that are happening in the city, to, you know, give







                                                                   167
       1      us -- these task forces have to have teeth.  They

       2      have to have results.

       3             We need to continue measures to reduce

       4      inappropriate opiate prescribing.

       5             Prevention education to those who take these

       6      prescriptions, about keeping them out of the hands

       7      of others; education and access to harm-reduction

       8      and recovery services for those who are addicted.

       9             Prevention programs in schools that

      10      specifically address the range of opiates.

      11             And, most importantly, if you have questions

      12      or concerns, please reach out to service providers,

      13      such as Turning Point, such as the Resource Center,

      14      such as Dynamite, and any other colleagues that

      15      I have that are here.

      16             Thank you.

      17                  [Applause.]

      18             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Karen, we're probably going

      19      to come back to you shortly.  I'm going to talk

      20      about education.  I'm probably going to ask the

      21      questions:

      22             Is the -- what age should we start?

      23             What grade should we start?

      24             And are we starting early enough?

      25             And the curriculum in the state of New York,







                                                                   168
       1      does it need to be updated?

       2             But we're going to come back to you on that.

       3             Go ahead, Josephine.

       4             JOSEPHINE BECKMANN:  Thank you, Senator.

       5             My name is Josephine Beckmann, and I'm the

       6      district manager of Community Board 10 in Brooklyn,

       7      representing the communities of Bay Ridge,

       8      Dyker Heights, and Fort Hamilton.

       9             And for those of you not familiar with what a

      10      "community board" is, we're a local municipal

      11      agency, and we have an interesting composition, in

      12      that, we have 50 volunteer members that live

      13      throughout the community, that listen to various

      14      issues, including service-delivery needs.

      15             And I'm here today to speak because, as we

      16      have heard from those who have testified before me,

      17      we have a problem with addiction in Bay Ridge and

      18      Dyker Heights, and some of the data is staggering.

      19             As district manager, a big part of my job is

      20      reviewing complaint data via community-board

      21      complaint logs, the 311 open data, as well as the

      22      New York City Department of Health.

      23             And, Senator, to your point earlier, it

      24      really is important that we kind of hone in on the

      25      Department of Health, in making sure those







                                                                   169
       1      statistics are accurate, and include suicide, and

       2      include secondary causes of death, which we have

       3      heard, anecdotally.  And those statistics become

       4      important as we advocate for city service-delivery

       5      needs within the district.

       6             So, in 2014, the drug epidemic came to our

       7      doorstep at Community Board 10 when residents --

       8      everyday residents came and brought to our attention

       9      rampant street-level drug use, that included many

      10      residents seeing young teens smashing opiate pills

      11      and snorting them very much out in the open, and

      12      families began to come in with stories of loved ones

      13      who were addicted.

      14             And the list goes on.

      15             So, in 2014, Community Board 10 formally

      16      organized a response to the sharp uptick in

      17      complaints about the street-level opiate use.

      18             We transitioned from a reactive and referral

      19      approach to community concerns brought to the board,

      20      and joined with agency officials and our elected

      21      officials to form our own Community Board 10

      22      Drug-Abuse Task Force.

      23             CB 10's drug-abuse task force was comprised

      24      of members of CB 10, elected officials, community

      25      organizations and leaders.  There were three ad hoc







                                                                   170
       1      committees of our health committee, which included

       2      education, treatment, and enforcement.

       3             It was at those meetings where board members

       4      met with leaders of treatment services who are here

       5      today, district and citywide educational leaders,

       6      and our District Attorney's Office, local precinct

       7      commanding officer and narcotics enforcement.

       8             And we too felt, very important, that we

       9      erase that stigma that was attached, because we saw

      10      a real health concern in the district.

      11             So, on education, CB 10 reached out to every

      12      elementary, middle, and high school in Community

      13      District 10.  We held red-ribbon drug-awareness

      14      events, and encouraged local schools to add special

      15      assemblies and programs, and to advocate for

      16      funding, to heighten awareness.

      17             On treatment, we advocated for counseling

      18      services, and, subsequently, met great people, who's

      19      now a board member, Donna Mae DePaolo, who testified

      20      earlier.

      21             And we now have a resource counseling center

      22      that opened up a satellite office on Fourth Avenue.

      23             On enforcement, we participated in meetings

      24      with residents and police on recurring drug

      25      locations, and educated residents on reporting







                                                                   171
       1      information.

       2             CB 10 realizes education and treatment

       3      efforts are costly, but are critical to prevention

       4      and critical to treatment.

       5             CB 10's task force offered findings which

       6      included the following:

       7             The first, continued support of the NYPD and

       8      community training on Narcan (naloxone).

       9             Two, the availability of treatment resource

      10      information at local precinct station houses,

      11      government offices, libraries...wherever possible.

      12             Three, prescription-drug boxes at local

      13      precincts.

      14             Four, preventive-education funding for

      15      elementary through high schools.

      16             Five, to encourage opioid, heroin, use

      17      reporting collaboration via the NYPD's best

      18      practices, similar to that offered to nightlife

      19      establishments, without fear of violations.

      20             Six, funding for Department of Health

      21      substance testing and business inspections,

      22      especially in some problematic locations within

      23      Board 10 that sell hookah, because of the number of

      24      adolescents and complaints of illicit drug use that

      25      tries to get young people hooked.







                                                                   172
       1             Seven, a citywide drug hotline for families

       2      and persons facing addiction, to get confidential

       3      help, referral assistance, both reporting and

       4      treatment resources.

       5             Eight, continued funding to the District

       6      Attorney's Office for reporting confidential

       7      drug-sale information by county.

       8             We are very concerned about the consistent

       9      pace of heroin, opiate, and other substance-abuse

      10      problems, including ketamine and synthetic drugs,

      11      facing residents within our community.

      12             The members of Community Board 10 strongly

      13      feel that sustained counseling and treatment funding

      14      is needed to help those facing addiction.

      15             In the longer term, we will continue to

      16      support education and prevention efforts statewide.

      17             Thank you for the opportunity to testify, and

      18      your work on this issue.

      19             And I think we really are, in the last few

      20      years, making that curve into erasing the stigma,

      21      and really working together to get help to those in

      22      need.

      23             Thank you.

      24                  [Applause.]

      25             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Josephine, you and your







                                                                   173
       1      office have done an outstanding job, and continue to

       2      do an outstanding job, whether it's dealing with the

       3      narcotics issue here, or the ongoing issues at the

       4      Prince Hotel, which we talked about earlier, or the

       5      pain-management locations that are opening up.

       6             So, to your members I say, thank you very

       7      much.  Please keep up the great work.

       8             David, we'll hear from you, and then

       9      Kristine (sic), and then we'll go to questions from

      10      myself and my colleague, and then to the audience.

      11             DAVID BOCHNER:  Thank you, Senator.

      12             Thank you for inviting me.

      13             My name is David Bochner.  I am the executive

      14      vice president of Cornerstone Treatment Facilities

      15      Network.  We have two locations in New York.

      16             One is in Queens, we have a 161-bed

      17      short-term inpatient facility.  And we have a 96-bed

      18      facility in Rhinebeck.

      19             And once again, thank you.

      20             One of the reasons I'm here -- and I'm going

      21      to go quickly, because it's late Friday afternoon --

      22      is that we're turning people away every night for

      23      detox.  Every single night, I'm turning 15 to

      24      20 people away because I don't have any beds.

      25             There are no beds in New York City for heroin







                                                                   174
       1      and opioid treatment, short-term beds.

       2             In order for patients to get to Turning Point

       3      and to Dynamite, they need to be detoxed first.

       4      They need a few days; five days, four days,

       5      eight days, whatever it takes to get the drugs out

       6      of their system.

       7             When I started in the field as a social

       8      worker 25 years ago, the drug in East Harlem, the

       9      drug of choice, was crack and crack cocaine.

      10             All of us sitting here know the difference

      11      between crack cocaine and heroin and opioids, but a

      12      lot of laypeople don't.

      13             Crack cocaine is not physically addictive;

      14      heroin and opioids are.

      15             Let me say that again:  Crack cocaine is not

      16      physically addictive; heroin and opioids are.

      17             What do I mean by that?

      18             When you are a heroin or opioid addict and

      19      stop taking drugs, you go into severe withdrawal:

      20      nausea, diarrhea, vomiting...worst case of the flu

      21      you could ever imagine.  You need to take drugs,

      22      heroin or pills, not necessarily to get high, but to

      23      feel normal.

      24             Imagine waking up every day, needing to use a

      25      pill or shoot a bag of dope to feel normal.







                                                                   175
       1             That's what we're facing now.  That's the

       2      epidemic.

       3             Going to an emergency room or a general

       4      hospital for a couple of days isn't detox and it's

       5      not short-term rehab.  That's called getting the

       6      drug out of your system and walking right back into

       7      the nightmare that you live outside.

       8             It doesn't work.

       9             We need to stop sending people to emergency

      10      rooms.  We need to get law enforcement to stop

      11      bringing people to emergency rooms, and bringing

      12      them to treatment centers instead.

      13             Everyone wants treatment available for

      14      everyone.

      15             I think it was Senator Murphy that was

      16      talking about, and everybody up there, the stigma of

      17      addiction, which I do think is going away.  I do

      18      believe there is a de-stigmatization of addiction

      19      going on.

      20             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Not in this community.

      21             But go ahead, David.  I apologize.

      22             I'm trying to wake up some of my community.

      23      That's why --

      24             DAVID BOCHNER:  That's a shame.

      25             And it's an individual stigma.  It's a family







                                                                   176
       1      stigma.

       2             I think, Senator Golden, you mentioned a

       3      clergy stigma.

       4             But it's an entire neighborhood stigma.

       5             We are trying to open new programs and new

       6      detoxes throughout the boroughs.  Okay?

       7             And we're the bad guys, we're private.  We're

       8      not asking for any money from anybody.

       9             And the reason we can't open them is that

      10      nobody wants it in their backyard.

      11             Everybody talks a good game, but when it's

      12      time to treat addicts, I think Dr. Kunins said,

      13      people are leaving the state and leaving the city,

      14      and going on vacation in Florida and California, and

      15      then they're coming home to the same people, places,

      16      and things, and they're not getting the treatment

      17      they need.

      18             Let's work within the city and in the state.

      19             There is the stigma attached.  No one wants

      20      it in their backyard, and that's what we need to

      21      change.

      22             If there are addicts in this neighborhood,

      23      and in my neighborhood in Queens, and in

      24      neighborhoods throughout The Bronx and Manhattan and

      25      Staten Island, let's get treatment centers open.







                                                                   177
       1             I can't send referrals to the great people

       2      that do the work they do here without the short-term

       3      intervention on an inpatient basis that they need.

       4             So that's why I'm here.

       5             I appreciate you allowing me to be here, and

       6      happy to answer any questions.

       7             Thank you.

       8             SENATOR GOLDEN:  David, thank you very much.

       9                  [Applause.]

      10             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Kristine (sic), if you could

      11      finish up, and then we're going to go to questions

      12      and answers of the panel.

      13             KRISTIN MILLER:  Great; I get to bring up the

      14      rear.

      15             There we go.

      16             Hi.

      17             My name I'm Kristin Miller, and I am director

      18      of the New York program at the Corporation for

      19      Supportive Housing.

      20             Thank you for this opportunity to testify

      21      before this very important Task Force.

      22             CSH has a 25-year track record of innovation

      23      and investment in New York.

      24             Since 1991, CSH has made over $138 million in

      25      loans to supportive-housing developers for the







                                                                   178
       1      creation of over 15,000 permanent, supportive, and

       2      affordable housing units in the state.

       3             CSH applauds the efforts of the Senate Task

       4      Force on Heroin and Opioid Addiction, and the

       5      leadership of the Senators before us today: Murphy,

       6      Amedore, Robert Ortt, and Martin Golden.

       7             Thank you, thank you, for elevating this

       8      issue and keeping it in the spotlight where it

       9      belongs.

      10             As we've heard again and again this

      11      afternoon, heroin and opioids are destroying

      12      people's lives, damaging families and neighborhoods.

      13             I am here today to talk about supportive

      14      housing, a proven solution and valuable tool in our

      15      fight to stem this epidemic.

      16             We know that housing is a platform for health

      17      and recovery.

      18             CSH recently released a report called

      19      "Supportive Housing's Vital Role in Addressing the

      20      Opioid Epidemic in New York State," and it provides

      21      a background of the opioid epidemic in New York

      22      communities, as we've heard today, but it also cites

      23      research, showing supportive housing as a solution

      24      for individuals facing substance-use disorders.

      25             For those who don't know, supportive housing







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       1      combines affordable housing with services, with

       2      voluntary services, that help people facing complex

       3      challenges live with stability, autonomy, and

       4      dignity.

       5             It has been demonstrated that through that

       6      stability found in the supportive housing, people

       7      using heroin successfully avail themselves to the

       8      services that address their substance-use disorder.

       9             And this goes to what the doctor from

      10      Department of Health was talking about in harm

      11      reduction, housing-first tactics.

      12             In 2014, the National Center on Addiction and

      13      Substance Abuse found that supportive housing was

      14      successful in reducing the use of and costs

      15      associated with substance-abuse and crisis-care

      16      services, including everything that we have been

      17      talking about today: shelters, detox centers, jails,

      18      and medical care, which includes hospitalizations

      19      and emergency room visits.

      20             These findings suggest that individuals,

      21      actively, actively using substances can be housed

      22      successfully and stabilized without forcing

      23      treatment requirements upon them.

      24             We at CSH, in early fall, released a

      25      statewide supportive housing-need assessment using







                                                                   180
       1      state data that -- using 2013 data, and found that

       2      across the state, New York needs 32,000 units of

       3      supportive housing.

       4             And based on local community input, we

       5      believe that 50 to 95 percent of those people are

       6      suffering from substance-use disorders.

       7             So we know here in New York that supportive

       8      housing is an answer.

       9             And I especially want to thank

      10      Senator Golden, who led 26 of his Senate colleagues,

      11      11 of whom also serve on this Task Force, in sending

      12      a letter to Governor Cuomo, calling on him to fund

      13      new supportive-housing units across the state.

      14             During Governor Cuomo's State of the State

      15      Address, he did indeed commit to creating 20,000 new

      16      units of supportive housing statewide over the next

      17      15 years.  These units are in addition to the 15,000

      18      units Mayor de Blasio announced for New York City

      19      last November.

      20             And, really, thank you so much for leading

      21      that effort.  It was very, very crucial.

      22             We congratulate the Mayor and the Governor in

      23      taking this important step to housing our most

      24      vulnerable New Yorkers.

      25             And what we want to do is urge this







                                                                   181
       1      Task Force to help us ensure that these new units

       2      are realized, and that people in communities

       3      struggling with the opioid epidemic have access to

       4      them and the important services they will need to

       5      achieve their recovery.

       6             Housing is an essential anchor of stability.

       7      Home forms a firm platform from which individuals

       8      can pursue the services they need.

       9             It is our responsibility to make sure they

      10      have access to the services, as well as housing.

      11             And I echo the comments just made by my

      12      colleague here, about siting.

      13             We need this housing in every community.  It

      14      is permanent housing.  It is not a group home, it is

      15      not a shelter.  It is permanent housing, and this

      16      neighborhood, and neighborhoods across the state,

      17      need it.  Communities need to welcome it.

      18             And if you can help your colleagues to

      19      understand what it is, and how much it's needed, and

      20      how helpful it is, we would greatly appreciate it.

      21             Without this housing, individuals struggling

      22      with the opioid or heroin addiction will continue to

      23      cycle endlessly between homelessness, expensive

      24      public-service delivery systems, including the

      25      inpatient hospital beds, psych centers, detox







                                                                   182
       1      services, jails and prison, at enormous public and

       2      human cost.

       3             So, specifically, we believe that -- we

       4      understand that the Governor has put 6,000 units of

       5      supportive housing in the current budget before us,

       6      and as part of his five-year housing plan not yet

       7      released, but this is what we understand.

       8             We also believe there's $2.6 billion in the

       9      budget.  $2.4 billion in capital financing to build

      10      the bricks-and-mortar for this housing, and an

      11      additional $200 million in services and operating

      12      dollars.

      13             We believe that HCR has been allocated

      14      $1.9 billion for new homelessness -- through its new

      15      homelessness and housing plan.

      16             So we ask that you and your colleagues on the

      17      Task Force ensure that this recent commitment to the

      18      new supportive housing in New York is realized

      19      through this year's budget allocation, and that

      20      these resources are accessible to heroin, opioid,

      21      addicts who are struggling with their disorder,

      22      trying to recover, and giving them that stability

      23      that they need.

      24             Thank you very much.

      25                  [Applause.]







                                                                   183
       1             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Kristine (sic), thank you

       2      very much.

       3             You know, we got caught in that war between

       4      the Mayor and the Governor over the supportive

       5      housing.

       6             I don't care how it gets done, but it's got

       7      to get done.  And I believe that the powers that be

       8      are coming together on these issues.

       9             That, and 421-A, we believe is a very

      10      important component to housing.

      11             We have 8 1/2 million, probably closer to

      12      9 million, people living here in the city of

      13      New York.  We don't have nearly enough housing.

      14             And the mere fact that we have

      15      60,000 homeless on the street is, you know, very

      16      telling.

      17             So we need to do more in that particular

      18      area, especially here in this great city.

      19             Karen and David, I wanted to pop off the

      20      education to you, again, that question about, Did we

      21      start early enough in educational system in teaching

      22      our children?  And does the curriculum have to be

      23      addressed?

      24             And David, going back to you, after that

      25      question, is, is the -- you're asking for a rewrite







                                                                   184
       1      on an SOP (standard operating procedure) here in the

       2      city of New York, from going through -- directly to

       3      emergency room, to directly to a treatment center.

       4             Can that be done?

       5             And is -- you know, what -- you know, what

       6      does (a) the person have to be willing to do?  And

       7      (b) it still has to go through an emergency room,

       8      I'm pretty sure, before they can get you to where

       9      you want to be.

      10             But is there some tweaks that we can do and

      11      some changes that we can do in the standard

      12      operating procedure to make it much easier to get

      13      that person into detox, and into long-term care if

      14      needed?

      15             Let's start with those two, and then my

      16      colleague will have some question -- some backup

      17      questions, I'm sure, and questions of his own.

      18             Go ahead, Karen.

      19             KAREN REMY:  I don't know the specifics of

      20      the curriculum, exactly.

      21             What I do know is that many schools are

      22      struggling with not having supplemental services

      23      alongside, you know, the academics, you know, such

      24      as counseling and mental-health services.  And those

      25      are all considered prevention services.







                                                                   185
       1             I visited a school about a month ago, not far

       2      from my office, and we -- you know, we had heard

       3      that they were looking for people to come in and

       4      provide, you know, education around HIV, around

       5      hepatitis C, around drug use.

       6             And when they -- when they realized that we

       7      would come in and do it for free, they -- they

       8      almost -- they almost cried.

       9             Apparently, the board of education is not

      10      giving a lot of schools what they need.

      11             There is a new initiative I know that's out

      12      there around mental health, but in order for a

      13      school to get them, they have to already be

      14      struggling.  They have to be one of the schools

      15      that, you know, gets on the so-called "list," you

      16      know, for closing, and then they put the

      17      mental-health services in.

      18             So, you know, again, I can't speak to the

      19      curriculum, but, you know, part of prevention is

      20      those supportive services.  And I believe that those

      21      are inadequate.

      22             DAVID BOCHNER:  In order for the State to

      23      reach their goal of $6.2 billion in health care

      24      delivery-service reform, they're going to need to

      25      start reducing avoidable hospital admissions by







                                                                   186
       1      25 percent.

       2             I know -- I don't know what the law is

       3      called, that when someone comes into the emergency

       4      room they need to be seen, so I'm not familiar with

       5      what it's called, but I know they need to be.

       6             We have been to several hospital systems and

       7      offered a triage service within the emergency room,

       8      to have that person screened very, very quickly, and

       9      then get screened for a substance-abuse or

      10      mental-health diagnosis; particularly, a

      11      substance-abuse diagnosis, because that's what

      12      they're seeing.

      13             We have been rebuffed.

      14             No one wants to do that yet, because they're

      15      making -- the hospital systems are making a lot of

      16      money admitting people through their emergency room

      17      and getting emergency room visits.

      18             Whether there can be a rewrite of that, or a

      19      tweaking of that, I have no idea.  You guys know way

      20      more about that than I do.

      21             But, in order for the State -- in order for

      22      patient care to get better, we need to stop getting

      23      patients seen in the emergency room for diagnosis

      24      and issues that need to be seen in the

      25      community-based provider, such as mine, and all the







                                                                   187
       1      other folks on this panel right now.

       2             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Thank you.

       3             George.

       4             SENATOR AMEDORE:  Thank you.

       5             Not so much questions, but just comment.

       6             And, Karen, on the education, you are

       7      100 percent correct.

       8             What I have been finding throughout the state

       9      is most of the education, going into the schools,

      10      it's done maybe at a fifth-grade level, and that's

      11      about it.

      12             And I really believe that the State Ed

      13      Department should be including some curriculum that

      14      is going to carry on with the student throughout,

      15      not just fifth grade, but beyond, all the way to

      16      graduation.

      17             If we can go to a science class or

      18      sex-education class to learn about various diseases

      19      or contraception, or whatever it may be, there

      20      should be some type of curriculum that is really

      21      meaningful to the student when they graduate, about

      22      substance abuse.

      23             There's no question that they're going to be

      24      trying alcohol at the school part -- you know,

      25      after-school parties, or after the prom, or







                                                                   188
       1      whatever.  They're going to be trying the gateway

       2      drugs.

       3             And if we can continue to be in front of them

       4      with that type of education, hopefully, it could

       5      prevent a severe abuse of that, and an addiction.

       6             So -- and to David, I just loved your direct

       7      comment of, you know, it's a mindset that, as

       8      Senator Golden says, it's a protocol.

       9             How do we change something like that?

      10             It's fascinating, and I'm glad that you

      11      brought it up, because it's a great suggestion.

      12             Sometimes our ERs are absolutely full of

      13      other patients of -- you know, having a cardiac

      14      arrest, and then there's someone waiting to get

      15      detoxed.

      16             Maybe there's a different measure or

      17      treatment or somewhere in the hospital that one of

      18      you, as a provider, could even partner with,

      19      possibly, so that in that window of opportunity, as

      20      Mr. Fusco was talking about, we're not waiting

      21      48, 72 hours, or, a decision of 6 days later,

      22      whether they're going to be able to get the

      23      treatment, because that individual probably is

      24      already on another binge after that.

      25             So, we need to get to them almost instantly.







                                                                   189
       1             But other than that, I think, Senator Golden,

       2      what I've heard in Brooklyn is very similar to what

       3      I've heard in other parts of this state, whether

       4      it's in a very rural county, like, Yates County,

       5      very small county, with 20,000 people; but, yet, the

       6      drug court is filled with -- filled with

       7      individuals, over 200 cases, harrowing cases, in a

       8      county of only 20,000.

       9             Figure that out.

      10             And their overdose rates are just through the

      11      roof, skyrocketing, because they have a small

      12      population.

      13             But they don't have the services that I hear

      14      that we have here in Brooklyn.  They wished they had

      15      the services.

      16             But, yet, you have so many great suggestions

      17      here.

      18             And I just look forward to continuing to work

      19      with my colleagues on this Task Force, and

      20      finalizing our Task Force report, so that we can get

      21      the much-needed legislation, or, budgetary items

      22      with appropriations in, so that more services and

      23      more recovery efforts can be for treatment and

      24      prevention, and also with the law enforcement

      25      component.







                                                                   190
       1             So, thank you so much for all of your time,

       2      and educating me.

       3             SENATOR GOLDEN:  I just need -- I got two

       4      more, and then I am -- you know, you pointed out

       5      that there's -- nobody wants it in their backyard.

       6             You know, I've been to your place, the

       7      Dynamite.  I've been to across Brooklyn to -- and as

       8      my colleague George has.  And you know what?

       9      I don't see people hanging outside, smoking

      10      cigarettes.  I don't see big, huge signs.  I don't

      11      see disruption of cars coming and going.

      12             It's a -- it seems to be like -- you know,

      13      like part of the tree line in the community.

      14             Maybe you could explain some of the -- what

      15      the misconceptions are of these types of locations.

      16             DAVID BOCHNER:  I think it's an old

      17      conception, a misconception, of what maybe it used

      18      to be.

      19             I think the program -- we're an inpatient

      20      program.  These folks do supportive housing and

      21      outpatient programs.

      22             I'd venture to say, the folks in my program

      23      and the folks at their programs are probably using

      24      less drugs than the people that are complaining

      25      across the street.







                                                                   191
       1             We're -- we -- we relocated from

       2      New York City eight years ago, out to Queens, and we

       3      were supposed to -- actually, the building we went

       4      to was an old hospital that was going to be a dorm

       5      at St. John's University.  And they said they didn't

       6      want us there because college kids don't use drugs

       7      or alcohol.

       8             So it's a mindset.  It's a stigma.

       9             I think there's a de-stigmatization of

      10      addiction in this state.

      11             I think OASAS has done a terrific job of

      12      legislation that you gentlemen have passed, about

      13      access to care.  I think it's working.  People are

      14      getting treatment.

      15             We've been a great neighbor for eight years

      16      in Queens.  And I think if other -- I think most of

      17      us legitimate providers are good neighbors.  We're

      18      not perfect, but we work closely with our elected

      19      representatives.  We bring business and industry to

      20      our areas, where our 300 employees go out to eat and

      21      use the neighborhood services.

      22             And what we're -- let us -- we're smart

      23      enough, and we know how to take care of our

      24      patients, and keep them from, for the most part,

      25      bothering people and being a nuisance in the







                                                                   192
       1      neighborhood.

       2             Again, we're not perfect, but nobody is.

       3             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Thank you.

       4             I'd like to now go to the audience.

       5             Does anybody in the audience have any

       6      questions for panel?

       7             Yes, sir.

       8             Right here, James.

       9             JIM SNYDER:  Hi.

      10             Thank you.

      11             Jim Snyder, Dynamic Youth Community.

      12             I work with Bill, Karen, and all these young

      13      guys here.

      14             Senator Amedore, earlier you mentioned, when

      15      my boss was talking about access to treatment, and

      16      you said, What can OASAS do better?

      17             I just want to bring up the tremendous

      18      paperwork burden.

      19             We get somebody in the program and, bam,

      20      we're hit with deadlines.

      21             This has to be done in 24 hours.

      22             This has to be done in 72 hours.

      23             This has to be done in 30 days, we're a

      24      long-term program.

      25             Everything we do has to be documented very







                                                                   193
       1      quickly, and it's turning our case records into the

       2      size of phone books.  It's turning our policy

       3      procedure manual, also to the size of two phone

       4      books.

       5             And it's just something that, if you could

       6      look at, I would appreciate it: 819 regulations,

       7      822 regulations, 800 regulations.

       8             Just a comment.

       9             SENATOR AMEDORE:  I'm glad you brought up the

      10      term "regulations" because, you know, we don't have

      11      enough time for me to get on the soapbox and talk

      12      about New York State and, the overregulations, they

      13      could choke a horse.

      14             And it's one of the difficulties that we all

      15      have, attracting business, economic development, and

      16      the services that we have that cannot be as

      17      inexpensive as they should be, because you have to

      18      hire more people, more staff, to fulfill the

      19      obligations that a bureaucracy or an agency or the

      20      state government puts on your lap.

      21             And it's unfortunate, because you're in

      22      business to give care and to help someone in need,

      23      and not to fill out a telephone book of paperwork.

      24      And if you don't fill it out correctly, or your

      25      "i" dotted and "t" crossed, reimbursements are







                                                                   194
       1      withheld, or you could, potentially, go out of

       2      business because they'll put a cease-and-desist

       3      order on you.

       4             So, it's unfortunate, and it's a whole nother

       5      topic we've been working on, in frustration.

       6             So, I totally get it, and I understand that.

       7             I just didn't want to bring it up in those

       8      comments, because it opens up a whole spectrum of

       9      conversation.

      10             But, thank you so much for the question.

      11      I appreciate it.

      12             JIM SNYDER:  Thank you.

      13             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Any other questions from the

      14      audience?

      15             Yes, sir.

      16             GENADI COGEN (ph.):  Good evening, everybody.

      17             My name is Genadi Cogen (ph.).  I'm here as a

      18      social-work student.  I also work in mental-health

      19      field, and I intern at a substance-abuse program.

      20             While we were -- I was listening, I was able

      21      do some research.

      22             So there is a bill, A.6763, which is to

      23      mandate a licensed social worker to be in a school.

      24             Other than that, working in mental-health

      25      field, I'm seeing peer-advocacy services being great







                                                                   195
       1      support.  And within the mental-health field, there

       2      are respite centers that are set up across the city

       3      that provide services.  You know, a mental-health

       4      recipient can go and receive services for two weeks,

       5      no questions asked.

       6             One question is:  Is this something that

       7      could work for individuals with addictions?

       8             Also, I believe Bill was speaking in regards

       9      to having adequate staff.

      10             Being an intern in a substance-abuse program,

      11      I am seeing how difficult it is to get qualified

      12      staff.

      13             So I guess one of the things to ask is, more

      14      funding for tuition reimbursement, and ease of

      15      access to tuition reimbursement, for those that are

      16      interested in working with this in-need population.

      17             Thank you.

      18             SENATOR AMEDORE:  Thank you.

      19             SENATOR GOLDEN:  Thank you very much.

      20             Any other questions from the audience?

      21             I want to thank each and every one of you

      22      here today for being part of this.

      23             I want to thank the panel for the outstanding

      24      testimony that we got today.

      25             If you could leave that here, we appreciate







                                                                   196
       1      your testimony.

       2             If you have any ideas, if you put them to

       3      memo or letter form and get them to this Task Force,

       4      we will address it.

       5             I want to thank the Majority Leader for

       6      setting up these cameras, and for having -- allowing

       7      to us have this Task Force meeting here in

       8      Dyker Heights.

       9             I want to thank, not only the Community Board

      10      and others, the 68 Precinct, and, of course, all of

      11      our other -- of those who testified today from NYPD,

      12      from Special Prosecutor's Office, and from

      13      Department of Health.

      14             I also want to thank my staff here today:

      15      John Quaglione, James McColon (ph.),

      16      Jerry Kasar (ph.), Anthony Testoverdi (ph.),

      17      Marco Kempi (ph.).

      18             I'm sure I left out somebody.

      19             But I also want to thank Doug Breakell, who's

      20      the chief of staff for George Amedore, for being

      21      here as well.

      22             They have to go back to Albany now, which is

      23      about a 2 -- well, for me, 2 1/2 hours, for them 3.

      24             But, I want to thank George for being here.

      25             And, of course, I want to thank the Chairman,







                                                                   197
       1      Chairman Murphy, for him coming down as well.

       2             And, of course, the other members of this

       3      Task Force.

       4             We will get this addressed.

       5             Will we get it solved?  No.

       6             This is going to be an ongoing effort by all

       7      of us.

       8             But I will tell you, you have the ears of the

       9      New York State Senate, the Governor, and the

      10      Assembly.

      11             We will get legislation passed.

      12             We will get money directed to this direct

      13      issue here in our communities, for housing, for

      14      detox, for residential units.  Possibly, changing

      15      the operating procedures that are now in place; to

      16      opening up more access; and to dealing with the

      17      families, from the beginning of the process, right

      18      through the unfortunate tragedies that we see day to

      19      day.

      20             So, you guys in the audience that are in

      21      recovery, all I can say to you is, God bless you

      22      all.

      23             Thank you.

      24             This is a gift from God.  Please appreciate

      25      it each and every moment.







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       1             Thank you.

       2             God bless you.

       3             And have a safe trip home.

       4                  [Applause.]

       5                  (Whereupon, at approximately 5:48 p.m.,

       6        the public hearing held before the New York State

       7        Joint Senate Task Force on Heroin and Opioid

       8        Addiction concluded.)

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