Public Hearing - January 24, 2012

    


       1      BEFORE THE NEW YORK STATE SENATE
              STANDING COMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION
       2      --------------------------------------------------

       3                         PUBLIC HEARING

       4            POLICY AND PROCEDURES PERTAINING TO THE
                   SECURITY OF THE SAT AND STANDARDIZED TESTS
       5
              -----------------------------------------------------
       6

       7                       Van Buren Hearing Room A - 2nd Floor
                               Legislative Office Building
       8                       Albany, New York

       9                       January 24, 2012
                               12:00 p.m. to 3:00 p.m.
      10

      11

      12      PRESIDING:

      13         Senator Kenneth P. LaValle
                 Chair
      14

      15      SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT:

      16         Senator Toby Ann Stavisky (RM)

      17         Senator Lee M. Zeldin (RM)

      18         Senator David Carlucci

      19         Senator Joseph A. Griffo

      20         Senator George D. Maziarz

      21         Senator Gustavo Rivera

      22         Senator Joseph E. Robach

      23

      24

      25







                                                                   2
       1
              SPEAKERS:                               PAGE QUESTIONS
       2
              Thomas Rudin                              16     26
       3      Sr. VP for Governmental Relations
              Kathyrn Juric
       4      Vice President of the SAT Program
              College Board
       5
              Raymond Nicosia                           16     26
       6      Executive Director, Office of
                   Testing Integrity
       7      Educational Testing Service (ETS)

       8      Steven Maiselson                          57     58
              Former Employee
       9      Prometric, subsidiary of ETS

      10      James Hayward, Ph.D., Sc.D.               65     77
              President &  CEO
      11      Applied DNA Sciences

      12      David Wicker                              83     88
              Vice President of Research & Development
      13      Jody Sherman
              Sr. Business Development Specialist
      14      Document Security Systems, Inc.

      15      Ray Philo                                 89     96
              Director of Research Operations,
      16           Dept. of Economic Crime and
                   Justice Studies
      17      Utica College.

      18                            ---oOo---

      19

      20

      21

      22

      23

      24

      25







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       1             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Before we begin, to my left

       2      is the ranking member of the Committee,

       3      Senator Toby Stavisky; to my right is

       4      Senator Lee Zeldin.

       5             And, I want to thank everyone for being here.

       6             This hearing of the Senate Higher Education

       7      Committee is convening, to continue its

       8      investigation of policies and procedures pertaining

       9      to the security of standardized tests.

      10             We have a number of witnesses here today, and

      11      among them, representatives from the College Board,

      12      Educational Testing Service, experts in security,

      13      who will provide testimony to the Committee about

      14      ways to secure standardized tests, as well as

      15      testimony from a former testing employee.

      16             Let me just say for the record, that the

      17      Committee invited the principals of both

      18      College Board and ETS.

      19             And, it's kind of a continuing record of,

      20      "We're too busy."  "We're out of the country."

      21      "We're"...wherever.

      22             So, we will have to, at some juncture, bring

      23      the principals back, because the Committee has

      24      policy questions, that people here today, while they

      25      have a certain expertise, and so forth, I think it







                                                                   4
       1      would be unfair to ask them, although we might ask

       2      them, anyway.

       3             Last October, at the Committee's first

       4      hearing, examining test security and cheating, I

       5      opined that these hearings are somewhat like the

       6      locust.  Every number of years, we have a hearing,

       7      and, College Board appears, ETS appears.  We air the

       8      issue.  ETS and College Board give testimony.  They

       9      answer questions.  And, then, something either

      10      happens, or doesn't happen, after that.

      11             In my experience, it's been the work of this

      12      Committee that has tackled the issues ETS and

      13      College Board will not, and cannot, or refuses to,

      14      tackle.

      15             As many of you in this room know, within the

      16      last couple of weeks, our Committee held, kind of, a

      17      "first of its kind" meeting; an open Committee

      18      meeting, where just about the full Committee was in

      19      attendance, and we discussed potential legislation.

      20      And that legislation is in draft form; has not been

      21      filed yet.  And, we hope that we will get input on

      22      that legislation.

      23             The most critical thing for the Committee,

      24      first up, was secured test administration.

      25             "A secured test administration."







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       1             Because, if we have a secured test

       2      administration, we will not have to deal with things

       3      that follow, in terms of penalties, misdemeanors, or

       4      felonies.

       5             And, we have a mixture of both of those.

       6             This Committee has, uhm -- well, enacted the

       7      Truth in Testing Law in 1979.

       8             And, then, in -- and then there was some

       9      subsequent bills dealing with:  What kinds of

      10      results do we have, in terms of race, gender,

      11      ethnicity?

      12             And, so, the Committee is very concerned

      13      about the whole testing issue, not only whether the

      14      test itself was the best possible product a student

      15      could take.

      16             But, in 1992, we had, and we implemented,

      17      protections for test takers, following a case in

      18      East Los Angeles.

      19             Earlier high school students taught by an

      20      acclaimed teacher, Amy Escalante -- Jaime Escalante,

      21      were asked to retake an AP calculus test because

      22      they were suspected of cheating.

      23             All twelve, who did so pass, and their

      24      experience later, was dramatized in the movie

      25      "Stand and Deliver."







                                                                   6
       1             In 2006, this Committee examined problems

       2      related to misreported scores and the accuracy of

       3      SAT scores, because students and colleges did not

       4      learn about the misreported scores until five months

       5      after the test.

       6             This Committee, the New York State Higher

       7      Education -- Higher Education Committee, has been

       8      the only source of protections that exist for

       9      test takers in the country.

      10             The laws that emanated from the work of this

      11      Committee, through both the Senate and the Assembly,

      12      set the standards for practices that standardized

      13      tests for university admissions, follow around the

      14      country.

      15             It seems, as New York goes, so goes the rest

      16      of the country.

      17             So, here we go again.

      18             Since we last convened, thirteen more current

      19      and former high school students faced arrests for

      20      their roles in the cheating scandal that has placed

      21      the national spotlight on lax security and the

      22      procedures at the testing sites.

      23             The Nassau County District Attorney uncovered

      24      nine more students who paid for test takers, from

      25      the years 2008 to 2011, to take the SAT and ACT for







                                                                   7
       1      them so they would achieve a higher score.

       2             The test takers took payments, ranging from

       3      500 to 3,600 dollars.

       4             According to a Nassau DA, ETS told

       5      prosecutors that it conducted its own investigation

       6      of the matter, but it was unable to provide some

       7      investigative -- investigation documentation to

       8      prosecutors because of document-retention problems.

       9             As many people here know, CBS "60 Minutes"

      10      aired an interview with a test-taking imposter who

      11      detailed how easy it was for him to slip in and out

      12      of test centers, posing as someone else, even --

      13      "even" -- as a member of the opposite sex.

      14             As Great Neck North principal,

      15      Bernard Kaplan, so eloquently described at the last

      16      hearing:

      17             "The only identification you need to produce

      18      to take an SAT is a school ID, which any

      19      fifth grader with a computer can make.  Make up a

      20      school, put any name on it you like, and your

      21      picture on a card.  Sign that name, and pick a

      22      mascot for good luck.

      23             "You know, you now have everything you need

      24      to be anyone that you want to be, for purposes of

      25      taking an SAT.  You can now take an SAT anywhere in







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       1      the country under that name.

       2             "In fact, if you further want to cover

       3      yourself, and cover your tracks, you don't even have

       4      to go to the site that you requested, or, the site

       5      to which ETS has assigned you to.  You can go as a

       6      walk-in to any site that you desire, using that same

       7      made-up ID."

       8             I'm concerned that many of the Committee

       9      voice similar concerns about who will pay for

      10      improving test security.

      11             And I think I can speak for all of my

      12      colleagues in answering:  It should not be the

      13      students, or their families.

      14             You know, ETS income, according to its own

      15      filing, was more than $900 million in past years.

      16      And more than thirty of its executives earn, from a

      17      high of more than 700,000, to a low of about

      18      200,000.

      19             All told, more than 10 million in

      20      compensation for a not-for-profit executive.

      21             "Not-for-profit."

      22             More startling is the compensation for

      23      trustees, who, according to its 2009 tax return,

      24      worked an average of 1.5 hours a week, and were paid

      25      in the range, from 15,000 to 54,000, each.







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       1             You know, that's not bad for what amounts to

       2      about two weeks' work.

       3             And, you know, you can't make this stuff up.

       4             Staff, I know was moving kind of quickly.  We

       5      wanted other years, and we could not find other

       6      years.

       7             So, you know, one of the things I'm going to

       8      request today, is that we have the most recent years

       9      so that we can look at some of the numbers that I

      10      just talked about.

      11             Similarly, the College Board pays its

      12      executives well, for a not-for-profit.

      13             Twenty-four of its executives earn, from a

      14      high --

      15             I hope no one has heart troubles here.

      16             -- from a high of more than 1 million, to a

      17      low of about 230,000.

      18             And I'm reciting numbers, again, from the

      19      2009 report.

      20             So, surely, there's room for both

      21      organizations.

      22             And I emphasize, non-profits to pay for

      23      security that goes into the very heart of their

      24      business.

      25             The credibility of the tests has been







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       1      undermined; and, thereby, the credibility of the

       2      process that determines who gets into a given

       3      college has been called into question.

       4             I, and this Committee, urge you to consider

       5      some of the commonsense approaches to addressing

       6      security; some of the security measures that you're

       7      going to hear today.

       8             Just in closing:  Some people have now

       9      gotten, because of the media attention, why this is

      10      such a big deal.

      11             You know, initially, people were saying,

      12      Why's this such a big deal?

      13             Well, it is a big deal because, certain

      14      students are getting into competitive schools, or to

      15      a college; and, those who have played by the

      16      rules -- taken prep courses, taken out books, taken

      17      courses on-line -- they played by the rules, may

      18      have fallen short.

      19             So, people, and the pressure is great --

      20      "it's great" -- put upon these students.  They now

      21      have been pushed to cheating; doing things that are

      22      wrong under the law.  And, in Nassau County, some

      23      are being punished to the fullest extent of the law.

      24             And, uhm -- but, it's morally wrong, and it's

      25      reprehensible, that students and their families who







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       1      play by the rules end up getting the short end of

       2      the stick.

       3             Senator Stavisky.

       4             SENATOR STAVISKY:  Yes, let -- it's you and

       5      me, I suspect, because I think we both probably took

       6      the SAT scores.

       7             First, let me thank Senator LaValle for,

       8      again, reconvening the Committee.

       9             And, the people who are here today, we

      10      appreciate your coming; and, at the same time, we

      11      are disappointed that the decision-makers at the top

      12      are not here.

      13             I was at the hearing out on the Island in

      14      October, and I was disappointed in some of the

      15      responses.  I thought they were vague.  I thought

      16      that, uhm -- inconsistent.

      17             And, I hope -- was hoping today we might have

      18      more clarity.

      19             For example:  I had asked about who's going

      20      to bear the cost of the security report.  That, I

      21      hope it's not passed along to the students.

      22             And I really did not get an answer to that

      23      question.

      24             And Senator LaValle mentions -- mentioned the

      25      compensation, both of the executive staff and the







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       1      board members.

       2             And, recently, the Governor indicated that he

       3      was going to try to limit compensation to the heads

       4      of not-for-profit agencies that receive State

       5      funding.

       6             And this might be another place to start,

       7      because I think it's excessive.  And, at the same

       8      time, again, if there's so much profit, then the

       9      profit ought to be passed along to the consumers,

      10      which are the students.

      11             I hope we have more clarity today on the

      12      testing and cheating information.

      13             The data that we heard in --

      14             Where was it held?

      15             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Farmingdale.

      16             SENATOR STAVISKY:   -- in Farmingdale, it was

      17      inconsistent, particularly when we asked:  How many

      18      are involved?  What kinds of cheating have you come

      19      across?

      20             The answers were not satisfactory.

      21             I have read Senator LaValle's draft bill.

      22      And while we may have some differences, I think it

      23      addresses some of the concerns involving penalties,

      24      which I think are inadequate.  It involves --

      25      includes security, which I think is important.







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       1             And I think we also have to -- we have a

       2      third player in this.

       3             The legislation talks about the test taker,

       4      and the person who does the impersonating, and the

       5      person who provides the funding.  And, it leaves out

       6      the other ingredient; and that's, those that are

       7      responsible for the security.

       8             So, I look forward to listening to what the

       9      people here today are going to say about security

      10      measures.

      11             At the hearing in Farmingdale, I had the

      12      feeling, that if they had listened to the

      13      Superintendent of Schools, they could have saved a

      14      lot of money on their consultants, because he gave

      15      some very simple solutions to how to beef-up the

      16      security.

      17             So, again, we do appreciate your coming, and

      18      I look forward to hearing how we can remediate this

      19      problem.

      20             Thank you.

      21             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Senator Robach has joined

      22      us.

      23             Senator Zeldin, any comments?

      24             SENATOR ZELDIN:  Senator LaValle, thank you

      25      for your leadership, and your invitation on this







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       1      issue.

       2             Thank you to all the other participants that

       3      are here on behalf of the residents of their

       4      Senate District.

       5             This has been an issue very close to home for

       6      us, as we read in our local papers and "News Day"

       7      and watch on "News 12," as this story has developed

       8      and unfolded.

       9             I was also participating in the event on

      10      Long Island.  Was not very impressed with the

      11      inconsistency, as Senator Stavisky had mentioned,

      12      with regards to the answers to some of my questions.

      13             Hopefully, we can have some more clarity on

      14      all of our concerns.

      15             The integrity of the tests and the process

      16      and the participants have been compromised.

      17             While I think the ideal preference would be

      18      for the folks responsible for administering the test

      19      to take care of this issue on their own, the fact

      20      is, you know, I guess we're not getting there.

      21             And, I'm happy that Senator LaValle and this

      22      Committee has been so active in helping to guide and

      23      lead this, hopefully, to a, uhm -- to an end result

      24      that has that integrity restored to this very

      25      important test for our students.







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       1             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Senator Robach?

       2             SENATOR ROBACH:  Yeah, let me just thank you,

       3      Mr. Chairman, for taking this head on.

       4             I think we all agree, that, not only do you

       5      want integrity, but in today's world, if there isn't

       6      that integrity in the testing, it's not just that

       7      some people that might not make it are getting in,

       8      they're often bumping people who are trying to get a

       9      certain spot or a certain place, get the college

      10      they want.

      11             So, it's important that we do that.

      12             I'm hopeful, from all of this discussion, we

      13      will be able to come up with something that will be

      14      fairly reasonable.

      15             And, I'm kind of leaning towards the group,

      16      that, we just have to stop -- or, make sure, that

      17      may be a better way to put it, that the right people

      18      are taking the test, and not the wrong one.

      19             And I have every assurance we'll get to that.

      20             Thanks.

      21             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Okay.

      22             Before we have our first people testifying,

      23      we do have copies here of the draft bill, and a

      24      memorandum.

      25             So, it's here for you to take away, look at,







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       1      and make comments to the Committee.

       2             The first people who will testify are,

       3      Kathy Juric, who is vice president of the SAT

       4      program for College Board;

       5             And, Tom Rudin, senior vice president for

       6      governmental relations, College Board;

       7             And, we have a third person, Ray Nicosia,

       8      executive director of Office of Testing Integrity.

       9             SENATOR STAVISKY:  Seems like an oxymoron.

      10             THOMAS RUDIN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

      11             And, I assume this is on?

      12             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Yes, sir.

      13             THOMAS RUDIN:  I'm Tom Rudin.  I'm

      14      senior vice president for government relations at

      15      the College Board.

      16             To my right is, Kathryn Juric, who's

      17      vice president for our SAT program at the

      18      College Board;

      19             And, to my left is, Ray Nicosia, who is

      20      executive director of the Office of Testing

      21      Integrity at ETS.

      22             And, we want to thank you for the opportunity

      23      to be here today.  We're eager to work with you on

      24      these issues, and we're hoping that the information

      25      we can provide to you today will bring the clarity







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       1      you're seeking, and can contribute to a constructive

       2      ongoing dialogue with you all as you craft your

       3      legislation.

       4             I'll summarize my remarks rather than read

       5      every word, as, obviously, you have those before

       6      you.

       7             But, I do want to take a few minutes to

       8      state, that the College Board, as you know, is a

       9      New York-based not-for-profit organization comprised

      10      of member schools, colleges, and universities.

      11             6,000 schools, colleges, and universities

      12      comprise the membership of the College Board,

      13      including, 438 member schools in New York State; and

      14      124 of those, colleges and universities in New York.

      15             So, we're a member organization, and we get

      16      our guidance from our members and our trustees.

      17             We were founded in 1900 to democratize

      18      education.  And, all our work is committed to the

      19      principles of equity and education, and we serve

      20      more than 7 million students around the world every

      21      year.

      22             Our best-known programs, obviously, the SAT,

      23      the PSAT, and the Advanced Placement Program.

      24             And just one example of our service to

      25      students:  New York State actually ranked second in







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       1      the country last year, in the percentage of students

       2      who scored a qualifying grade on the AP exam.

       3             So, last year, 126,000 students in the state

       4      got the qualifying score, and had the potential

       5      college-tuition savings, of anywhere from 46 to

       6      71 million dollars for their families, because of

       7      the credit they earned in AP while in high school.

       8             Our commitment to excellence and equity

       9      extends to every one of our programs.

      10             Exam fees cover the cost -- the SAT exam fees

      11      and all of our exam fees cover the cost of

      12      developing the exams; administering and scoring the

      13      exams; and, also, allows to provide more than

      14      $100 million in programs and services without charge

      15      to students, including, last year, $53 million in

      16      test-fee waivers and test-fee subsidies that enabled

      17      every low-income student -- for example, here in

      18      New York -- to take the SAT program at no cost.

      19             In fact, 43,000 students in New York State

      20      took the SAT at no cost -- that's more than a

      21      quarter of all SAT takers in the state -- because

      22      they qualify as, free- and reduced-lunch students.

      23             So, we're proud of the fact that all

      24      low-income students can take our tests at very

      25      little or no cost.







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       1             And to your point, Mr. Chairman, we also

       2      take this matter very seriously.  We find cheating

       3      of any kind to be reprehensible.

       4             We want to support the students who play by

       5      the rules, the large majority of which, and who have

       6      college dreams and aspirations.

       7             And that's why we're eager to work

       8      collaboratively with you on the legislation.

       9             And if invited during this hearing, we do

      10      have comments on the legislation we'd love to share

      11      with you in a preliminary way.

      12             As a mission-driven organization, we're

      13      committed to ensuring that every student has access

      14      to our programs.  So, we are mindful that every

      15      well-intentioned solution to a particular problem

      16      may carry with it unintended consequences that could

      17      discourage a student from pursuing his or her

      18      college dreams, especially low-income students; or

      19      students whose parents didn't go to college, and who

      20      may find the college application and admission

      21      process particularly vexing for them.

      22             The College Board was created, and exists to

      23      this day, to create opportunities, not barriers, for

      24      college.  And because of our commitment to equity,

      25      we're determined not to let a student's concerns







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       1      about privacy, complexity, and convenience stand in

       2      the way of college opportunity.

       3             Now, as we are considering our changes to

       4      security protocol, we want to take note of the fact

       5      that the College Board and ETS are not

       6      law-enforcement agencies.

       7             We will continue to share information and

       8      cooperate with law-enforcement officers, as we're

       9      doing now in Nassau County.  But, with no power

      10      ourselves to subpoena witnesses, or prosecute

      11      alleged offenders, we can't act as a court of law.

      12             In the end, it's the responsibility of local

      13      law enforcement to take legal action.

      14             Again, we're deeply committed to working with

      15      the law-enforcement agencies, and are already doing

      16      so.

      17             As you know, for the last three months, we've

      18      been working through potential test-security

      19      enhancements with the Freeh Group International

      20      Solutions, LLC.

      21             The Freeh Group is an independent global risk

      22      management firm founded by Louis J. Freeh, former

      23      director of the FBI, and a former federal judge.

      24             And any actions we take -- we think this is

      25      the perfect group to work with.  Any actions we take







                                                                   21
       1      must meet the highest standards for global security,

       2      because this test is administered in 170 countries.

       3             So, we think we took the right step in

       4      working with this powerful and prestigious group.

       5      And our work is in collaboration with them.  We're

       6      not waiting for them to study us and prepare a

       7      report.

       8             They will prepare a report, which we will

       9      share with this Committee; but, we're working hand

      10      in hand with them to develop solutions, some of

      11      which are already underway, and I'm going to talk

      12      about in just a moment.

      13             I do want to say, many of the issues that

      14      have been raised in -- over the course of the past

      15      three months do appear easy to overcome.

      16             It's been suggested:

      17             That we require a government-issued photo ID

      18      card because of the issue of high school IDs;

      19             That we require government-issued ID for

      20      every student.

      21             We acknowledge that a school ID, by itself,

      22      is not sufficient in most cases.  But we also know

      23      that large populations of students don't have

      24      government-issued IDs, and it's a burden on them to

      25      get one.







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       1             This is unacceptable to us.

       2             And I know -- I -- we took note of your

       3      Committee meeting on January 10th.  We watched the

       4      video, and we saw you all debating many of the same

       5      issues we're debating.

       6             Again, that's why we're eager to have

       7      conversations with you over time.

       8             SENATOR LAVALLE:  And we came to a resolution

       9      very quickly, as you know.

      10             THOMAS RUDIN:  Yes.

      11             And, again, we're eager to talk with you

      12      about your bill.

      13             Someone suggested we should simply require

      14      students to take the exam in their own test center.

      15      But, with only 7,000 registered test centers

      16      worldwide, and more than 30,000 high schools, that's

      17      not possible.

      18             Others have argued that we should photograph

      19      every student on test day by simply distributing

      20      small cameras to every test center.  But, we would

      21      need to resolve logistical difficulties as we think

      22      that through.

      23             Other test-day security measures have been

      24      suggested, such as, fingerprinting, and biometric

      25      scanning, that would add to the check-in process.







                                                                   23
       1             And, that might cause significant intrusions

       2      on privacy, with respect to collecting and securing

       3      and managing the data around student biometrics.

       4             So, I raise these concerns, not to take

       5      anything off the table.  We understand that all

       6      options need to be available, as you considered in

       7      your January 10th meeting.  But, we raise these to

       8      suggest that we're taking this very seriously, and

       9      needing to weigh increased security against

      10      increased access to the test.

      11             Now, at the last hearing, there was a

      12      discussion of the immediate near-term and long-term

      13      solutions.

      14             And I'm happy to say, we have some that we

      15      will discuss now with you, and happy to elaborate on

      16      in the Q and A.

      17             First, we have already begun providing

      18      additional enhanced training, messaging, and

      19      information to all test-center supervisors, that

      20      focuses exclusively on test security that gets to

      21      this issue of having a secured test-administration

      22      site, including, for example -- and, again, we can

      23      elaborate on this -- new training modules on test

      24      security delivered to all of our test-center

      25      supervisors; and, also, new protocols for checking







                                                                   24
       1      student IDs at the sites.

       2             Second:  We're providing additional

       3      information to high schools, colleges, and all other

       4      score recipients, on the role that they play in

       5      ensuring test integrity.

       6             For example:  We have notified colleges,

       7      universities, the NCAA, and others, about their role

       8      in identifying testing irregularities.

       9             Our theme here is, basically:  If you see

      10      something, say something.  Let us know if there are

      11      irregularities you're coming across.  Be our

      12      partners in working this through.

      13             Third:  ETS has been conducting post-test

      14      analysis that further enhances our ability to

      15      identify potential impersonation cases.

      16             And, we'll talk more about that.

      17             Fourth:  I'm happy to let the Committee know

      18      that, today, beginning in the fall, each test taker

      19      who is currently enrolled in more than one of 30,000

      20      high schools -- who is enrolled in one of

      21      30,000 high schools that are registered with the

      22      College Board, must designate that high school as

      23      part of the SAT registration process, so that we can

      24      communicate back to the high school, the scores of

      25      that student, and any correspondence with the







                                                                   25
       1      student, regarding the SAT, and, even any

       2      irregularities regarding that.

       3             So, we are beginning to take steps.

       4             Other steps are on the way.  All options are

       5      on the table.

       6             And let me conclude by saying:  That, we

       7      started to take initial steps.  Much more work needs

       8      to be done.

       9             We believe we are close to designing a

      10      solution that will address the issues that we have

      11      seen with test-taker impersonation, that can be

      12      absorbed into the existing cost of the SAT.

      13             But, until we finalize our plans, and they've

      14      been validated by the Freeh Group, we can't discuss

      15      all of the options we're weighing now.

      16             We would love, again, to have a conversation

      17      with the Committee, as we think this through.  And,

      18      we will share the Freeh report with the Committee.

      19             Let me finally say:  Mr. Chairman, and

      20      members of the Committee, we share your deep

      21      commitment to this issue, we respect the fact that

      22      you're taking this on, and we're eager to work with

      23      you, going forward.

      24

      25







                                                                   26
       1             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Yeah.

       2             Thank you.

       3             Before we get to Ms. Juric, and I apologize

       4      for mispronouncing your name before, and,

       5      Mr. Nicosia:  How much was spent on the Freeh

       6      institute, his work?

       7             THOMAS RUDIN:  I don't know how much,

       8      exactly, was spent on the Freeh Group, but none of

       9      that funding is being passed on to students.

      10             SENATOR LAVALLE:  I understand, but, just a

      11      guess.

      12             THOMAS RUDIN:  We'll get you that detailed

      13      information.

      14             SENATOR STAVISKY:  They promised that at the

      15      last hearing.

      16             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Okay.

      17             The reason I ask that, and, uhm -- is that,

      18      for no money, we had three citizens come forward,

      19      and they're going to testify today, with

      20      methodologies that -- I don't know, I'm not an

      21      expert, but, on its face, looks pretty good, as a

      22      methodology.

      23             So -- and this Committee didn't spend a dime

      24      to do it.  We just said:  Citizens, come forward,

      25      and say, "Hey, we got some things.  Can we testify?"







                                                                   27
       1             And I thought it would be a great

       2      opportunity.

       3             Certainly, we're not promoting any one

       4      method, and -- nor is the Committee going to adopt

       5      in legislation, any one method.  But, we thought it

       6      would be good for you folks to see what three

       7      citizens have developed.  And, maybe it works,

       8      doesn't work.

       9             Who do you want to have testify?

      10             THOMAS RUDIN:  Yeah, I'd simply say:  We're

      11      eager to hear the testimony of the others.

      12             We've gotten a number of ideas.

      13             We don't apologize for securing the services

      14      of the Freeh Group because we think they're a great

      15      organization.  None of the costs will be passed on

      16      to students through these [unintelligible].

      17             We can assure you of that.

      18             But we want to make absolutely sure that we

      19      have this world-class firm working with us, to test

      20      through all of the options available to us.

      21             So, we are eager to hear about the ideas that

      22      will come up later, yes, sir.

      23             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Who do you want to testify

      24      next?

      25             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  ETS is in support of the







                                                                   28
       1      College Board testimony.  We're not going to be

       2      issuing a separate statement.

       3             KATHRYN JURIC:  I didn't have a prepared

       4      statement.  Just to answer questions, and answers --

       5      and to reaffirm that we were extremely committed to

       6      this effort, and our evaluatable [sic] options are

       7      on the table.

       8             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Basically, you guys are

       9      security blankets for Mr. Rudin?

      10                  [Laughter.]

      11             THOMAS RUDIN:  These are the experts in the

      12      day-to-day grind of how to secure these tests.

      13             SENATOR LAVALLE:  I had hoped that principals

      14      would have been here.

      15             One thing the Committee would like is, uhm,

      16      we have the 2009 results from your filings.

      17             Do we have more recent?

      18             You know, up until 2011, would be

      19      appreciated, so that the Committee --

      20             THOMAS RUDIN:  Yes, sir.

      21             SENATOR LAVALLE:  -- so the Committee can see

      22      that.

      23             I'm going to let Senator Zeldin here -- I

      24      have other questions, but I'm going to let

      25      Senator Zeldin; and then, you, Senator Stavisky; and







                                                                   29
       1      I'll finish it up.

       2             SENATOR ZELDIN:  When we had the meeting on

       3      Long Island, we were discussing a little bit

       4      about -- well, if I could refer you to the last

       5      paragraph on page 2 of your testimony, Mr. Rudin,

       6      you know, you say:

       7             "As we consider changes to security

       8      protocols, it's important to take into account the

       9      fact the College Board and ETS are not

      10      law-enforcement agencies."

      11             So, this came up when we were in Long Island,

      12      and we were discussing just how many tests are

      13      canceled out because of irregularities.

      14             And, uhm, if you could just refresh my

      15      recollection:  What's the number of tests that are

      16      canceled out due to the irregularities?

      17             Can you explain that?

      18             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  Certainly, Senator.

      19             There's two tracks, if I may put it that way.

      20             We have, what we call, "The Supervisor

      21      Irregularity Report."

      22             That's the eyewitness account from one of our

      23      testing staff; one of our proctors.  They've

      24      observed something.

      25             So that could be, stopping someone at the







                                                                   30
       1      door with a questionable ID.  It could be seeing

       2      someone with a cell phone during the test.  It could

       3      be seeing someone working on the wrong section.

       4             So, it's something observed at the test

       5      center.

       6             And if you like, I can give you the exact

       7      numbers.

       8             For last testing year, that would be the

       9      year, 2010-2011, we had 6,339 such cases reported to

      10      my office.  Out of that, we canceled the scores for

      11      2,533.

      12             So, those are the cases that were canceled

      13      based on those eyewitness reports.

      14             That's one track.

      15             There's another post analysis that we do --

      16      post-test analysis.

      17             You heard me mention things, such as a large

      18      score difference, as a trigger, to bring cases to my

      19      office to review afterwards.

      20             And, there's a few other triggers that will

      21      bring that cases to my office; but, in the post-test

      22      analysis, for last year, we had 3,222 such cases

      23      come into my office.  And out of that, we canceled

      24      935 scores.

      25             Those numbers are fairly consistent year to







                                                                   31
       1      year:  3,000 or so being questioned.  About 1,000

       2      being canceled.

       3             SENATOR ZELDIN:  Okay, so, if someone's

       4      cheating on a test, it's possible that they may fall

       5      into one or both of these two categories?

       6             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  Correct, sir.

       7             SENATOR ZELDIN:  Okay, is there overlap?

       8             I mean, are -- is there someone that might be

       9      targeted in track one and track two?  Or --

      10             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  No, these are separate

      11      cases.

      12             SENATOR ZELDIN:  Okay, so, it would be,

      13      roughly, 10,000 -- approximately -- just under

      14      10,000, total --

      15             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  Correct.

      16             SENATOR ZELDIN:  -- [unintelligible.]

      17             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  Correct.

      18             SENATOR ZELDIN:  So, your statement,

      19      Mr. Rudin, about how you're not law-enforcement

      20      agencies, which, I mean, I think everyone would

      21      certainly agree with, there's just under

      22      10,000 cases of irregularities from both tracks,

      23      which lead you to cancel test scores for,

      24      approximately, just under 30 -- around 3,500 --

      25             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  About 3,500.







                                                                   32
       1             SENATOR ZELDIN:  -- across the country.

       2             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  World.

       3             SENATOR ZELDIN:  Across the world -- around

       4      the word.

       5             Do happen to know the numbers for New York,

       6      by the way?

       7             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  No, sir.

       8             SENATOR ZELDIN:  Okay.

       9             So, 3,500 test takers around the world, the

      10      scores are canceled.

      11             When we were in -- when we were on

      12      Long Island and we were discussing this topic, the

      13      question was asked, and now that it's been a few

      14      months, maybe you've had a chance to reflect on the

      15      question:  What's the standard that your

      16      organizations have to turn over those canceled

      17      scores to the law-enforcement agencies?

      18             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  Basically, we just process

      19      the cases, so we aren't -- we don't see a standard

      20      for us as to when we're compelled to turn over this

      21      information.

      22             We're looking to ensure the validity of the

      23      scores.  We don't, in essence, have to prove

      24      cheating on our cases.

      25             For instance:  In the post-test analysis, we







                                                                   33
       1      are -- we're basically looking for two bits of

       2      compelling evidence; such as, a large score

       3      difference, and, combined with a handwriting

       4      difference.

       5             That allows us to question the score.  And

       6      then we give the students a series of options to

       7      resolve the matter.

       8             Those options are supported by state law, as

       9      well as the industry standards, on how to question

      10      test scores.

      11             SENATOR ZELDIN:  So -- but what's your -- how

      12      do you determine whether or not to turn over a

      13      canceled score to a law-enforcement agency?

      14             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  It is extremely rare that

      15      we do go to law enforcement.

      16             When we do see something we feel has crossed

      17      the line, in the SAT world, very few, a handful of

      18      cases, would have actually gone to law enforcement.

      19             The case in question, here in New York area,

      20      there were signed confessions, we were informed

      21      about.  There were -- there was money changing

      22      hands.

      23             In this particular case, we did approach law

      24      enforcement.  We did not get a warm reception.

      25             Unfortunately, that is somewhat indicative of







                                                                   34
       1      cases when we've gone to law enforcement for similar

       2      cases.  There's not a great deal of interest.

       3             SENATOR ZELDIN:  So, in my opinion, the

       4      integrity --

       5             Mr. Rudin, were you going to say something?

       6             THOMAS RUDIN:  I simply wanted to say, I

       7      understand your concern about the issue of us being

       8      a law-enforcement agency.

       9             We're not that.

      10             I mean, I didn't make that statement to be

      11      flip about it.

      12             One of the questions we have about the

      13      legislation, and we'd love to talk to you about this

      14      in greater detail, is the idea that what you may be

      15      proposing is asking us to step into the role of a

      16      law-enforcement agency and determining whether a

      17      crime has been committed.

      18             SENATOR ZELDIN:  No, but before -- okay.

      19             Before we change the topic, I mean, my

      20      question is:  With regards to what your current

      21      standard is for turning over canceled scores to

      22      law-enforcement agencies.

      23             I'm not asking about the legislation, or,

      24      what kind of changes should be implemented.

      25             I'm just trying to understand what the







                                                                   35
       1      current standard is because, what we read about --

       2      you know, on Long Island, we read in "News Day," and

       3      we see on "News 12," and then we have the New York

       4      City TV stations pick it up.  And, all of a sudden,

       5      everyone's talking about this huge SAT cheating

       6      scandal in Nassau County.

       7             The integrity of the process is obviously

       8      questioned once you end up having this huge media

       9      story that breaks out from one isolated incident,

      10      albeit, it wasn't one particular student that

      11      cheated, but, it was a grand scheme.

      12             Now, I'm interested in what else is going on

      13      that we haven't read about in the newspaper.

      14             And I believe that your two organizations are

      15      in the best, and possibly the only position, to be

      16      able to bring to light all of the other cases of

      17      cheating that's taking place.

      18             Now, if the organizations only cancel the

      19      scores out, and, on a very rare case, turns that

      20      over to law enforcement, what that unfortunately

      21      results in is, now, for that student, the parent,

      22      the schools, the law-enforcement agencies, we never

      23      even become privy to the fact that cheating's even

      24      taking place.

      25             The only way that we're ever going to find







                                                                   36
       1      out, is if you tell us.

       2             And the only reason why we know about what

       3      happened in Nassau County, was because we read about

       4      it in the paper, and then it became a huge issue,

       5      and now you're cooperating with law-enforcement

       6      agencies.

       7             So, we're discuss what kind of changes should

       8      be made, legislatively.

       9             Whereas, I said in my opening, what I ideally

      10      would like to see, is for the organizations, the

      11      industry, for those that are administering it

      12      themselves, to be able to bring more accountability

      13      to the test, and not for anyone else to have to do

      14      it for the organizations.

      15             Both, the concern that I had when we met on

      16      Long Island, and I asked the same exact question,

      17      and I got the feeling that there really wasn't much

      18      of a standard; and, that, on a rare case, are those

      19      tests turned over to law-enforcement agencies.

      20             And I'm asking you the question again, now.

      21             I understand that you're not law-enforcement

      22      agencies.  I wouldn't ever want you to become one.

      23             But, you stated that your policy to others

      24      that are administering a test, is, "If you see

      25      something, say something."







                                                                   37
       1             But, then, you see stuff, and then you don't

       2      say anything.

       3             So, if those that are supposed to administer

       4      the test are supposed to follow the policy of

       5      "If you see something, say something," I think that

       6      it should be the policy of those administering the

       7      tests, such as yourself, to be telling us, be

       8      telling the law enforcement, because, if you see

       9      something, you should be saying something.

      10             And then we'll have a little bit more

      11      confidence that we know what's really taking place.

      12             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Mr. Rudin, are you

      13      familiar with what happened at Penn State?

      14             THOMAS RUDIN:  Yes, sir.

      15             SENATOR LAVALLE:  The rules changed.  A good

      16      and decent man didn't go far enough.  He didn't

      17      report it to the authorities.

      18             New -- new standard.

      19             We have a new standard:  You can't -- you

      20      can't close your eyes.

      21             Senator Zeldin's right.

      22             When you read that, three derrieres went off

      23      their seats.  "Three."

      24             It -- Senator Zeldin covered it, what was

      25      said in Farmingdale; but I would say to you, that,







                                                                   38
       1      we're in a new -- we're in a new era.

       2             And it happened at Penn State.  Happened at

       3      Syracuse.

       4             New rules.

       5             And if we need to, in our legislation, spell

       6      that out more clearly, well, we will do that if

       7      people are looking for legal standards.

       8             But we're in a new arena, sir.

       9             We're in a new arena.

      10             SENATOR ROBACH:  And could I just say, I have

      11      a concern.

      12             I don't think reporting the information to

      13      the right authority makes you law enforcement.  I

      14      think that just makes them aware of it.

      15             Because, I mean, I hate to say this, and

      16      nobody knows how big it is:  I think we're all

      17      shocked by the dollar amount offered to take this

      18      particular test.

      19             But, clearly, there is no stigma, or no fear,

      20      in today's world of people doing that.  Nor, my

      21      guess would be, that they're really even violating

      22      anything -- any major.

      23             In order for us to put that word out, to put

      24      the integrity back in, we all have to be in it

      25      together.







                                                                   39
       1             So, I don't think -- we know what you do and

       2      what your area of expertise is; however, you are the

       3      gatekeeper of who takes the test.

       4             When you see that, just to let it go, that

       5      kid's going to say, or whoever did that:  Well, we

       6      didn't get through this time.  Let's go back and try

       7      it again.  What's the big deal?

       8             If it's turned over, or at least looked at or

       9      reviewed by, if you want to call it, law

      10      enforcement, a DA, or the right governing authority,

      11      then I think it would be a great deterrent, and

      12      might almost be the most critical piece of the bill,

      13      if our goal is:  We want people to take the test,

      14      but put the word out there that we aren't going to

      15      allow that to happen anymore.

      16             You know, and not to digress or talk too

      17      much, you know, when I was in school, there was

      18      classes where you take in a room, like this size,

      19      with 100 people.

      20             And people would do that.  You know, the

      21      general class, someone would take the -- literally,

      22      take the test for them.

      23             That night, at school, they said:  If you get

      24      caught doing that, you'll kicked out of school.

      25             Everybody stopped doing it.







                                                                   40
       1             Now it's:  We're going to study for that

       2      class.

       3             I think this is a little of the same, but, if

       4      you aren't the ones to turn them over, who is going

       5      to do it?

       6             THOMAS RUDIN:  May I respond?  Because I

       7      understand what you're saying.  And, Senator, I

       8      understand your point.

       9             The question is not, Do we see things happen,

      10      and then we don't report them?

      11             What we do is, when we see testing

      12      irregularities that we believe exist, we cancel the

      13      student's score.  But, we don't -- we're not a

      14      law-enforcement agency that can prove beyond a

      15      reasonable doubt that the student committed a crime;

      16      and, therefore, need to inform law-enforcement

      17      agencies of that.

      18             SENATOR ZELDIN:  Yeah, this exact thing came

      19      up --

      20             And I know, Senator Stavisky, I'm sorry, you

      21      had a question; but, if I could just interject on

      22      that, Chairman.

      23             This exact point came up when we met on

      24      Long Island, about proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

      25             There are different standards of proof in our







                                                                   41
       1      system.  And when someone goes to law enforcement,

       2      they don't have to, in filing a -- you know, a

       3      criminal complaint, or, bringing something up to the

       4      attention of law-enforcement agencies, they don't

       5      have to establish it beyond a reasonable doubt.

       6             Sometimes issues come up before

       7      law-enforcement agencies where there might be

       8      probable cause or reasonable suspicion;

       9             Sometimes stuff brought to a law-enforcement

      10      agency where there's a hunch.

      11             So -- but you don't have to establish beyond

      12      a reasonable doubt in order to turn it over to law

      13      enforcement.

      14             THOMAS RUDIN:  No, I understand.

      15             I didn't mean to -- I misspoke, if that's

      16      what I conveyed.

      17             It's not a question of, we have to prove a

      18      crime was committed before we do anything.  I get

      19      that.

      20             When we believe there was a criminal act

      21      committed, such as impersonation, we do notify law

      22      enforcement.

      23             The large majority of the -- the large

      24      majority of the cases outlined in Mr. Nicosia's

      25      numbers, are not impersonation cases.  They are --







                                                                   42
       1      they range from, a student copying over the shoulder

       2      from their neighbor, to other cheating cases that

       3      don't go to the standard of breaking the law.

       4             So, when we believe a law has been broken, we

       5      do notify law enforcement.

       6             The significant number of these cases are not

       7      in that category.

       8             So, I understand.

       9             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Yep, the standard is

      10      significant evidence, in Section 344-B.

      11             THOMAS RUDIN:  Correct.

      12             SENATOR LAVALLE:  And in our legislation,

      13      we've carried the same.

      14             And in the legislation, we've clarified, so

      15      that you -- you should have a clear road map, as to

      16      what you should be doing, and when you should be

      17      doing that.

      18             I just want to introduce new members that

      19      have come, before Senator Stavisky:  Senator Rivera,

      20      Senator Maziarz, Senator Carlucci, and

      21      Senator Griffo.

      22             I just want to make a comment, that, having

      23      this many members at a hearing is -- shows the

      24      importance.

      25             If you saw the Higher Ed meeting, we had







                                                                   43
       1      almost 100 percent attendance at that Committee

       2      meeting.

       3             So, it shows you that the commitment of the

       4      Committee, and the severity of this issue.

       5             So, Senator Stavisky.

       6             SENATOR STAVISKY:  Yes, I -- when you

       7      testified that you're not a law-enforcement agency,

       8      we just looked at each other.

       9             THOMAS RUDIN:  I saw your body language.

      10             SENATOR STAVISKY:  Yeah, exactly.

      11             We were sort of surprised to hear that,

      12      because I assume you have security people, or people

      13      with a law-enforcement background, in your office?

      14             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  We work with our legal

      15      department.

      16             And my office is called "The Office of

      17      Testing Integrity."  And, so, we do confer with our

      18      legal office.  I report to the general counsel.

      19             SENATOR STAVISKY:  But, you don't have a

      20      law-enforcement background?

      21             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  I personally do not have a

      22      law-enforcement background.

      23             SENATOR STAVISKY:  But --

      24             SENATOR LAVALLE:  "Do"?

      25             SENATOR STAVISKY:  "Do not."







                                                                   44
       1             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  Do not, sir.

       2             SENATOR STAVISKY:  You indicated,

       3      Mr. Rudin, that -- in your testimony, that you

       4      didn't get a warm reception -- that was the phrase

       5      that I wrote down -- from the law enforcement

       6      officials when you reported evidence of cheating,

       7      presumably.

       8             Could you explain what you meant by that?

       9             THOMAS RUDIN:  I don't believe I said that.

      10             SENATOR STAVISKY:  I think -- you didn't

      11      say --

      12             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  I said that.

      13             SENATOR STAVISKY:  Oh, you --

      14             I'm sorry.

      15             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  No problem.

      16             In the particular case here in New York, we

      17      did place phone calls to the two counties in

      18      question.

      19             We did list the evidence, as we knew it.

      20             We asked that, if there was interest.

      21             And we were told, they would get back to us

      22      if they were interested.

      23             SENATOR STAVISKY:  District attorney, or the

      24      police?

      25             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  No, this was the local







                                                                   45
       1      police.

       2             SENATOR STAVISKY:  The local police?

       3             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  Yes.

       4             SENATOR STAVISKY:  Not the DA's office?

       5             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  No, ma'am.

       6             SENATOR STAVISKY:  A couple of other

       7      questions.

       8             In your testimony -- whoops.

       9             In your testimony, you stated that you're now

      10      going to have -- this college will -- the

      11      College Board will be required to designate that

      12      school as part of the SAT registration process.

      13             Does that mean, that if there are any of

      14      these "track one" and "track two" exams that are

      15      questioned, that they are going be reported to the

      16      schools?

      17             KATHRYN JURIC:  Hi.

      18             Yes, the process change that we'd be making,

      19      this enhancement, would be, that during the

      20      registration process, students will be required to

      21      enter their high school.

      22             And that means that, following their scores,

      23      and additional correspondence and information, would

      24      be sent to their schools.

      25             SENATOR STAVISKY:  In other words:  The fact







                                                                   46
       1      that the score was canceled, will -- the school will

       2      be notified?

       3             KATHRYN JURIC:  Yes.

       4             SENATOR STAVISKY:  What about the colleges to

       5      which they applied?

       6             KATHRYN JURIC:  That is the current process;

       7      that the colleges to which they applied are

       8      notified.

       9             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  If -- let me just jump in

      10      here.

      11             Based on -- overwhelmingly, most of the

      12      scores are not reported per se.  We put them on

      13      hold.

      14             If it's a test-day infraction, the score is

      15      put on hold.  It's never released to the attending

      16      high school or the college.

      17             Nor -- so, you know -- so -- and if it's a

      18      post-test analysis, we put the score on hold right

      19      away, if it's "a large" or "difference" trigger.

      20             So, those scores are never, technically, sent

      21      out anywhere.  We investigate.

      22             If we canceled the score, it is taken off the

      23      record.  It is acted like it did not take place.

      24             SENATOR STAVISKY:  And then the student can,

      25      for the next time the test is given, take it again?







                                                                   47
       1             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  Yes, they can.

       2             SENATOR STAVISKY:  So there's really no -- no

       3      oversight here.

       4             One other -- one last question.

       5             You talked about track one and track two of

       6      the questionable scores.

       7             The -- I don't know if I got the numbers

       8      right; but, basically, it was about 6,300 cases, and

       9      2,500 cancellations.

      10             And, 3,000 questioned on the second track,

      11      and 935 canceled.

      12             How -- and I gather, none of them were

      13      impersonation cases?

      14             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  No.

      15             We, uhm -- out of the first track, about --

      16      out of those 2,533 scores that were canceled, about

      17      700 of those were people turned away at the door, at

      18      the test center, for questionable ID.

      19             SENATOR STAVISKY:  But there's no further

      20      follow up; they just aren't able to continue to do

      21      that someplace else?

      22             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  That is our process today.

      23             We turn them away, and their scores are --

      24      there's no score for them that day.

      25             SENATOR STAVISKY:  Now, at the Farmingdale







                                                                   48
       1      hearing, I asked the extent of the impersonation

       2      problem, and, I really didn't get a concrete answer.

       3             Can you tell me how many cases there are of

       4      students paying somebody to go take the test for

       5      them?

       6             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  I cannot answer that.  I

       7      don't know.

       8             I -- the -- what happened in Long Island,

       9      they -- large sum of money, the confessions, that is

      10      an aberration, uhm, to get that much information.

      11             That's not our normal flow for information

      12      that we receive.

      13             Our normal flow of information is, that we

      14      trigger an investigation, from such things as a

      15      large score difference.  We do an investigation in

      16      my office.  We look at the handwriting differences.

      17             And if we have inconsistent handwriting, we

      18      then question the score.  The student has rights

      19      about taking retests, and such.

      20             But, to give you at least a number:  Out of

      21      those 935 cases that we canceled, 138 of those were

      22      for impersonation.

      23             Now, I don't know if money changed hands.

      24      All we have, our evidence to question the test

      25      score: large score difference, handwriting







                                                                   49
       1      difference, we questioned, and those scores were

       2      eventually canceled.

       3             SENATOR STAVISKY:  But there was no follow up

       4      in any way, as far as the student was concerned?

       5             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  The school --

       6             SENATOR STAVISKY:  Not referred to any law

       7      enforcement?

       8             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  No.  The school would just

       9      cancel the score.

      10             SENATOR STAVISKY:  In other words:  Have you

      11      ever reported impersonation cases, such as what

      12      occurred in Nassau County, to the law-enforcement

      13      agencies?

      14             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  From the SAT, no.

      15             This was -- it was an aberration.

      16             SENATOR STAVISKY:  This is the first time?

      17             It's never occurred?  It never happened

      18      before?

      19             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  For the SAT, yes.

      20             SENATOR STAVISKY:  For the SAT, nobody has

      21      ever paid somebody, in the past, to go take a test?

      22             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  I -- I'm not saying

      23      that's -- that no one's ever been paid.

      24             I'm saying, we don't have the information,

      25      like what took place in Long Island, with the







                                                                   50
       1      signed -- with the confessions.

       2             That is not information we normally obtain.

       3             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Mr. Nicosia, one of the

       4      things that has come out of all of this, I meet more

       5      people on the streets here in Albany, say -- they

       6      chuckle first, as I just did.

       7             SENATOR STAVISKY:  Yeah.

       8             SENATOR LAVALLE:  And then they say:  You

       9      know, this has been going on forever!

      10             And it's not a Nassau County problem.  It's

      11      not a New York State problem.

      12             It's a national problem.

      13             And we can't put our heads in the sand, and

      14      say:  You know, this is not going on.

      15             I think Senator Zeldin zealously pursued

      16      questioning from Farmingdale, because, in the

      17      interim, people have been saying to us:  You know

      18      this kind of -- these things have been going on.

      19             And you're -- as an agency, just very

      20      nonchalant-like, Well, you know, we got a couple of

      21      people here, we got a couple of people there.

      22             It's not so.

      23             KATHRYN JURIC:  If I -- can I make a couple

      24      of comments?

      25             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Uhm -- okay.







                                                                   51
       1             Are you finished?

       2             SENATOR STAVISKY:  Yes.

       3             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Senator Griffo?

       4             SENATOR GRIFFO:  Yes.

       5             We all know that times change, society

       6      evolves, problems are unique to each period.

       7             Would you say, historically -- just from what

       8      I'm hearing right now, that, historically, you've

       9      had problems?

      10             THOMAS RUDIN:  Is this over -- cheating

      11      problems?

      12             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  Yes.

      13             Consistently, over our years, yes, there are

      14      people who will copy on the test, people who will

      15      have impersonators.

      16             SENATOR GRIFFO:  Now, do you believe they're

      17      more severe --

      18             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Today.

      19             SENATOR GRIFFO:  -- the problems, and the

      20      issues that we're talking about, raising today, that

      21      the problems of cheating is more severe today, and

      22      there are newer ways that they're attempting to

      23      cheat?

      24             Do you acknowledge that that's the case?

      25             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  Yes, Senator.  Obviously,







                                                                   52
       1      things, such as cell phones, make our life more

       2      challenging.

       3             SENATOR GRIFFO:  So, do you believe now, that

       4      you possess the responsibilities, and are taking the

       5      necessary actions to reflect those new challenges?

       6             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  Yes, we've consistently

       7      enhanced our security procedures year to year.

       8      We're always upgrading some steps.

       9             Obviously, now, working with the Freeh Group,

      10      we've had some excellent discussions.

      11             And, we're looking forward to some more

      12      enhancements in the future.

      13             KATHRYN JURIC:  If I could add:  Yes, we are

      14      working on a comprehensive solution with the

      15      Freeh Group.

      16             And our plan is, to implement the solution by

      17      the 2012-2013 testing year; and, a comprehensive

      18      solution that would specifically deal with

      19      addressing the impersonation challenge that we have.

      20             SENATOR GRIFFO:  So that's one element.

      21             I mean, are you prepared to elaborate on some

      22      of the things that you actually are going to do?

      23             Because, it appears that you're inadequate to

      24      reflect the new demands and challenges that you

      25      face, as society has changed, when you look at the







                                                                   53
       1      use of the new technology that's available.

       2             Can you elaborate with what you're looking to

       3      do?

       4             KATHRYN JURIC:  In terms of the work that

       5      we're doing with the Freeh Group, we are evaluating

       6      the variety of options.  We believe we're close to

       7      designing a solution.

       8             But we're -- we're -- it would be premature

       9      for us to share that information, until we have

      10      fully worked through the legal and the operational

      11      implications.  These are complicated matters.

      12             And, so, we want to share, that we are very

      13      committed to this, and we are close to designing a

      14      solution.

      15             SENATOR GRIFFO:  Are you prepared to live and

      16      accept new regulations that may exist in

      17      New York State, as a result of what has taken place,

      18      and what we believe has been a failure to address

      19      some of the concerns and issues that have arisen?

      20             THOMAS RUDIN:  Senator, I'm going to --

      21      regarding your question about new technology

      22      presenting new challenges, yes, we do need to keep

      23      up with that.  You're exactly right.

      24             We do believe that we will never totally

      25      eliminate cheating from the SAT 100 percent of time.







                                                                   54
       1             We do believe we're approaching a solution in

       2      which we can eradicate impersonation cases.

       3             And when that information comes up, we'll

       4      share it with the Committee in a confidential

       5      report, immediately.  But, we actually believe we're

       6      on the track to eradicating that particular kind of

       7      cheating, as we saw most recently.

       8             SENATOR GRIFFO:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

       9             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Mr. Nicosia, have you

      10      ever had staff that has brought the seriousness of

      11      what is going on, in terms of cheating,

      12      impersonation, the scope of this problem, to the

      13      attention -- to your attentions, or predecessor, or

      14      supervisor in your unit?

      15             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  We get impersonation cases

      16      regularly after each administration, but, we've had

      17      nothing like this case here in Long Island.

      18             As I said, this is a total aberration to have

      19      something like this.

      20             The normal impersonation cases, we don't --

      21      there was no interview of students.

      22             This information came to us, as you know,

      23      from the principal, which is one of our triggers.

      24      The principal filed, what we call "an external

      25      inquiry."







                                                                   55
       1             We did the analysis we could do in our

       2      office, and we canceled scores, and gave students

       3      options afterwards, after the principal gave us the

       4      external inquiry.

       5             But, Senator, we've never had a case like

       6      this, with the sums of money changing hands.

       7             SENATOR LAVALLE:  No, but, staff -- your

       8      staff in your unit, have they brought to your

       9      attention that this may have been going on at a

      10      grander level than you were aware of?

      11             No staffers --

      12             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  I mean, we always discuss

      13      what we see.

      14             If we see large number of impersonations, for

      15      instance, at the one test center, what we try and do

      16      is, we might visit that center, and say:  Are you

      17      checking IDs properly?

      18             This is a study that we will then do.

      19             So, we try to monitor all of our test centers

      20      for, uhm -- when they have a certain number of

      21      violations, we address it.  We go out to the test

      22      center and see what the problem is.

      23             But we have -- no one's ever brought anything

      24      to me like this --

      25             SENATOR LAVALLE:  I ask that you that







                                                                   56
       1      question because, the next person to testify, is

       2      Mr. Maiselson.

       3             And -- so, he worked for Prometric.  An

       4      employee of Prometric.

       5             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  Yes.

       6             SENATOR LAVALLE:  And, uhm, I don't know what

       7      he's going to testify, but I --

       8             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  As I said, we were focusing

       9      here on the SAT.

      10             We have had group investigations,

      11      impersonation rings, with our graduate-level tests,

      12      which I've taken to law enforcement, and there have

      13      been convictions on that track.

      14             SENATOR LAVALLE:  You have, after that, made

      15      significant changes to the GRE, LSAT --

      16             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  Well, we --

      17             SENATOR LAVALLE:  -- in terms of dealing with

      18      cheating issues?

      19             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  Yes.  It's a different

      20      tool.

      21             We administer the TOFL and the GRE in a

      22      computer-based setting, which is entirely different

      23      model than paper-based setting.

      24             So, there's different things we could do.

      25             Those are brick-and-mortar test centers, open







                                                                   57
       1      seven days a week, so we have different security

       2      procedures we follow there.

       3             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Are you involved in the

       4      LSAT?

       5             RAYMOND NICOSIA:  No, sir.

       6             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Okay.

       7             Mr. Rudin, if you could give to the

       8      Committee, by the end of the week, your written

       9      input on the legislation, we would appreciate it.

      10             THOMAS RUDIN:  Yes, sir.  Happy to do so.

      11             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Okay, thank you.

      12             Thank you very much.

      13             Next person to testify, is Steven Maiselson,

      14      former Prometric employee, which is a subsidiary of

      15      ETS.

      16             STEVEN MAISELSON:  Good afternoon, Senator.

      17             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Mr. Maiselson, welcome.

      18             STEVEN MAISELSON:  Thank you.

      19             SENATOR LAVALLE:  The floor is yours.

      20             STEVEN MAISELSON:  Well you've all read my

      21      testimony and my statement, and others that --

      22             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Can you speak up nice and

      23      loudly so people can hear you.

      24             STEVEN MAISELSON:  You've all read my

      25      testimony and my statement, and I'm sure everyone







                                                                   58
       1      had a chance to review it.  If not, maybe at another

       2      point.

       3             Just to kind of summarize what's happened up

       4      to this point, and what the people who were just up

       5      here with ETS and the College Board has said:  I

       6      think that they're on the right track right now, as

       7      far as what they're looking to accomplish with

       8      what's going on out there in the test-security

       9      marketplace, and the situation that's happening out

      10      there.

      11             I also think that what you're doing,

      12      legislatively, is a lot of the right moves.

      13             And like I said my in statement, what many of

      14      the DAs are doing across the state, and also

      15      across the country, what the examples that you're

      16      going to send, are going to make an impact on what

      17      happens, and what these companies decide.

      18             SENATOR LAVALLE:  When you left Prometric,

      19      did you sign some sort of non-disclosure agreement?

      20             STEVEN MAISELSON:  I did, yes.  Absolutely.

      21             SENATOR LAVALLE:  You did?

      22             STEVEN MAISELSON:  Oh, of course.

      23             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Yeah, okay.

      24             STEVEN MAISELSON:  Everybody signs one there,

      25      sure.







                                                                   59
       1             SENATOR LAVALLE:  So, based on that, uhm -- I

       2      mean, I didn't see anything here in your testimony,

       3      either in letter dated January the 19th --

       4             STEVEN MAISELSON:  Right.

       5             SENATOR LAVALLE:  -- or the information

       6      attached, beginning in July 6, 2011.

       7             STEVEN MAISELSON:  Right.

       8             Those are -- all of those attachments that I

       9      sent you, really, just information for yourselves.

      10             That article on the 6th really addresses some

      11      of the security interests that McGraw Hill is

      12      looking to focus on.  And they were talking about

      13      how they were going to put out white paper and

      14      policy information.

      15             I think that might be good information for

      16      this group, and maybe also for the other people that

      17      are involved with this at this time.

      18             SENATOR LAVALLE:  I had the feeling, but not

      19      directly, that you felt that people were not paying

      20      attention to some of the loopholes that were going

      21      on out in the highways and byways of test taking.

      22             Is that a good observation?

      23             STEVEN MAISELSON:  I think that, when you

      24      look at the test-taking environment, and you look

      25      at, not just the SAT or the ACT or any of these







                                                                   60
       1      graduate-level exams, no matter where it is, that

       2      many of these testing companies are up against a

       3      really huge multi-headed monster, that's, um --

       4             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Describe the "multi-headed

       5      monster."

       6             STEVEN MAISELSON:  It's the testing network

       7      out there, that's looking to take that information

       8      out, and give it out.

       9             You know what I mean?

      10             In the sense of --

      11             SENATOR LAVALLE:  No, I don't.

      12             STEVEN MAISELSON:  In the sense of, you know,

      13      people who come in and do brain-dumping, or

      14      brain-loading.

      15             In other words:  I'll go in, I'll learn

      16      everything about the test, and then I'll just go and

      17      put it out there.

      18             And, that, of course, is a known thing.  It

      19      happens all the time.  It's very difficult to catch.

      20      It's very difficult to know who's doing that.

      21             You know what I'm saying?

      22             And an impersonation thing, you know, is

      23      something that is very rare, that I've seen.  It's

      24      not something that happens a lot.

      25             SENATOR LAVALLE:  And how do you base that?







                                                                   61
       1             What kind of observation?

       2             STEVEN MAISELSON:  Well, just through the

       3      years of doing administration, 90 percent of --

       4      99 percent of people that come in are legitimately

       5      coming in to take a test for that reason, and they

       6      are that person.

       7             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Okay.

       8             STEVEN MAISELSON:  And, there are occasions,

       9      where, you know, someone who is trying to skirt the

      10      system, or is part of this huge network, that these

      11      companies aren't aware of.

      12             I mean, they're aware of it, but they don't

      13      know who those people are.

      14             And it's -- it's like a terrorist

      15      organization that's out there; and you don't know

      16      where they're coming from, and you don't know who

      17      they are.

      18             And, you don't know when they come in to take

      19      your test.

      20             You can change the test over time, multiple

      21      times, but, the first day of the test, someone's

      22      going to walk in the door, and get the answers to

      23      the question of, 2 plus 2, and by the way, the

      24      answer is 4.

      25             And, they're going to go take that back, and







                                                                   62
       1      they're going to put it on-line, and they're going

       2      to get paid for that.

       3             And many administrators would never be able

       4      to know who those people are.

       5             And a lot of the things that happen in --

       6             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Are you talking about the

       7      coaching schools having people there so that they

       8      know what the test questions are?

       9             STEVEN MAISELSON:  I'm saying, that there's a

      10      huge organization out there that just goes out, and

      11      does nothing.

      12             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Well, can you -- I mean,

      13      we're novices, so we don't know, when you say

      14      "organization" --

      15             STEVEN MAISELSON:  "Organization" meaning,

      16      like organized crime, like companies, like

      17      individuals, that none of us know about --

      18             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Okay.

      19             STEVEN MAISELSON:  -- that I'm not privy to,

      20      and I'm sure that many of these companies aren't

      21      privy to as well, because, who knows who they are.

      22             SENATOR LAVALLE:  So, we have amorphous

      23      organizations out there --

      24             STEVEN MAISELSON:  Sure.

      25             SENATOR LAVALLE:  -- that are planting people







                                                                   63
       1      in there, to take the test --

       2             STEVEN MAISELSON:  Absolutely.

       3             SENATOR LAVALLE:  -- bring back, 2 plus 2 is

       4      4.

       5             STEVEN MAISELSON:  Whatever the question

       6      is --

       7             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Whatever -- right, right.

       8             STEVEN MAISELSON:  Right.

       9             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Okay.

      10             STEVEN MAISELSON:  So to say, I --

      11             SENATOR LAVALLE:  This has been going on for

      12      a while; right?

      13             STEVEN MAISELSON:  Ever since tests began, I

      14      imagine.

      15             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Okay, right.

      16             So, if someone knows that there is something

      17      out there, wouldn't you begin to put up a defense

      18      to -- to that?

      19             STEVEN MAISELSON:  Well, I mean, these

      20      companies have to do a lot of defense.

      21             There's cyber technology that's coming in, to

      22      try and take those exams.  There's people who come

      23      into their testing centers.

      24             You know, when you talk about the SAT or the

      25      ACT, who are we looking at?







                                                                   64
       1             We're looking at administrators that are

       2      teachers, and those teachers are there for a couple

       3      of reasons.

       4             One:  They know those people every day.

       5             If you hand me your ID, and I know that

       6      you're in, you know, somebody's class, and I know

       7      you, I see you in the hallway, I know who you are.

       8             So, that's an advantage for the company to

       9      have you there; so, you know who the people are that

      10      are taking the test so that impersonation could be

      11      reduced.

      12             But, there's lots of other, you know, things

      13      that they could do to make sure that they know

      14      exactly who those people are before they sit down

      15      and take the test.

      16             SENATOR LAVALLE:  I think we know that that's

      17      been going on for a while, but they're doing that so

      18      that they can do test prepping, is my guess.

      19             STEVEN MAISELSON:  I imagine so.

      20             SENATOR LAVALLE:  And -- but, here, we're

      21      talking about you taking the test for me --

      22             STEVEN MAISELSON:  Correct.

      23             SENATOR LAVALLE:  -- so that I can have a

      24      higher score.

      25             Do you believe that that kind of thing has







                                                                   65
       1      been going on for a while?

       2             STEVEN MAISELSON:  Well, I don't see why

       3      someone wouldn't want to try to impersonate somebody

       4      else in order to take a test for financial gain, and

       5      then give that information to a company who would

       6      then put those questions out there.

       7             It would probably be a better idea to be

       8      somebody else when I took that test, except myself.

       9             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Okay.

      10             Senator, Stavisky --

      11             SENATOR STAVISKY:  No, I have no questions.

      12             SENATOR LAVALLE:  -- Rivera?

      13             No?

      14             Okay, thank you.  Appreciate it.

      15             STEVEN MAISELSON:  Sure.

      16             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Dr. Hayward.

      17             James Hayward?

      18             Jim Hayward is -- Dr. Hayward is chairman,

      19      president, and CEO of Applied DNA Sciences.

      20             Are we having a PowerPoint --

      21             DR. JAMES HAYWARD:  Yes.

      22             SENATOR LAVALLE:  -- presentation?

      23             Okay.

      24             Now, the -- starting off with Dr. Hayward;

      25             And the next two individuals, they are going







                                                                   66
       1      to testify on how we can get into the

       2      twenty-first century, in terms of, secured

       3      administration, or having people on a card who is

       4      that person.

       5             Dr. Hayward.

       6             DR. JAMES HAYWARD:  Great.

       7             Well, thank you very much, Chairman LaValle,

       8      and members of the Higher Education Committee, for

       9      providing me with the opportunity to testify today.

      10             First, and foremost, I'd like to commend the

      11      Chairman for taking the leadership role in regard to

      12      this critical issue.

      13             I'm honored to be here today, to share what I

      14      believe is a viable solution that will secure the

      15      SAT and standardized testing processes.

      16             I'm president and CEO of Applied DNA

      17      Sciences, "APDN," a public biotech company located

      18      in the Long Island high-technology incubator on the

      19      campus of Stony Brook.

      20             I should point out, our company uses, from

      21      the very beginning, botanical, plant-derived DNA;

      22      that, none of our DNA is of human origin.

      23             As a consequence, no privacy is sacrificed

      24      for any test taker.

      25             We use botanical DNA as a marker, to aid







                                                                   67
       1      law enforcement, to prevent counterfeiting, and as a

       2      way to authenticate originality, identity, and

       3      provenance.

       4             I've supplied detailed information to you

       5      about Applied DNA Sciences that can be found in my

       6      submitted testimony that you'll be given, if you

       7      don't have it already.

       8             In respect to my allotted time, I will

       9      carefully contain my oral comments.  Additional

      10      detail can be found in those documents.

      11                  [Slide being shown.]

      12             As a biotechnology company, we are quite

      13      unusual, in that, the outlet for our sciences is

      14      entirely within the security industry.

      15             We're an 8-year-old Long Island company,

      16      originally attracted to Stony Brook University from

      17      California by the strength of the Center for

      18      Excellence in Wireless and Information Technology;

      19      "CEWIT."

      20             Developing a DNA-based security company on

      21      Long Island makes perfect, and imminent sense, in

      22      view of the longstanding heritage of

      23      Cold Spring Harbor in the west, the University of

      24      Stony Brook in the middle, and Brookhaven National

      25      Laboratory.







                                                                   68
       1             We have a card, are well-known the globe

       2      over, for DNA excellence.  And it's a great, great

       3      hiring pool.

       4                  [New slide being shown.]

       5             We are, and consider ourselves, a serious

       6      player for what you on the Committee clearly regard

       7      as a serious problem.

       8             We established ourselves as a formidable

       9      high-tech foe of crime; first in Europe, and then in

      10      the U.K.

      11             In that marketplace, we have a 35 percent

      12      market share protecting the movement of cash between

      13      institutions every day.

      14             The electronic containers used to transport

      15      the cash contain individualized, again, botanically

      16      derived DNA.

      17             So, we take the DNA from a plant, the whole

      18      genome, and make a mark, and they're in those

      19      containers that are used to carry cash.  And,

      20      they're discharged, our DNA mark, in the event of

      21      theft, and they decorate the cash, 100 percent of

      22      the cash, in the box.

      23             As you know, in the U.K., they don't believe

      24      in guards carrying weapons, so these crimes take

      25      place at a very high rate.  About 20 fold the rate







                                                                   69
       1      in the United States.

       2             The DNA decorates the cash with a unique

       3      marker.  It's a unique DNA marker to every ATM and

       4      to every cash box that we mark, so that the police

       5      can rapidly screen the mark, and then identify any

       6      cash to a specific crime.

       7             So, it allows you to trace the cash to the

       8      crime.

       9             To date, we have 85 cases with Scotland Yard,

      10      28 of which have gone to trial.  And we've achieved,

      11      for the first time in the industry, a remarkable,

      12      100 percent conviction rate in every single case,

      13      and it's yielded some of the longest sentences ever

      14      handed down.

      15             Just last week, we announced the successful

      16      conviction of a drug gang operating throughout

      17      Europe, convicted, using our DNA evidence.

      18             In the United States, we've been contracted

      19      by the Department of Defense to pilot a program that

      20      will eliminate the entry of counterfeit microchips

      21      and electronics into the military supply chain, a

      22      problem that puts our war fighters at serious risk.

      23             This is our second contract from DOD, from

      24      DLA specifically, which is the largest purchasing

      25      consortium in the world, and it's about to go full







                                                                   70
       1      scale in an off-shore facility with one of America's

       2      best known microchip manufacturers.

       3             Our DNA-marking system allows the

       4      authentication of general -- genuine parts at any

       5      point in the supply chain.

       6             On Long Island, our smart DNA crime

       7      prevention units, in our first banks, were just

       8      installed.

       9             And, we're preparing to protect our first

      10      pharmacies against the scourge of pain-killer

      11      robberies.

      12             We've won multiple awards from

      13      law enforcement, including the highest award from

      14      the Houses of Parliament only last December, and

      15      been told by some police officers that the initials

      16      "DNA" are now interpreted by criminals as

      17      "Do Not Attempt."

      18             We utilize botanical DNA as a safe,

      19      high-resolution, high-content identifier.  Over

      20      forty of our patents ensure our DNA marks cannot be

      21      copied.

      22             That's a critical aspect.

      23             Our marks cannot be copied, and that's been

      24      proven by multiple government agencies.

      25             They're highly table, they resist removal,







                                                                   71
       1      and fulfill the requirements for forensic certainty.

       2             Our experience, is that the popular awareness

       3      of the robustness and reliability of DNA serve as a

       4      powerful deterrent.

       5             In fact, crime rates have diminished

       6      within 12 months in each of our deployments.

       7             In London, for example, after one year of

       8      use, cash crimes were down 55 percent; and cash

       9      losses, 77 percent.  That's over a 40 million

      10      loss -- $40 million loss, originally, by our same

      11      customers.

      12             Our customers enjoyed over a 100-fold return

      13      within only 12 months.

      14                  [New slide being shown.]

      15             So, when it comes to improving exam security,

      16      we've targeted the credentials, and the challenge

      17      is, that the actual eligible registered participants

      18      complete the registration.

      19             Our goal is to maintain a level playing field

      20      for all participants using our botanical DNA as a

      21      solution, and the solution is simple: it's enhanced

      22      pre-registration, identity verification before and

      23      after exams, and the ease of mobile computing

      24      through our product, digital DNA.

      25                  [New slide being shown.]







                                                                   72
       1             Our digital marks represent the interface

       2      between biotechnology, mobile communications, and

       3      the security of a private "cloud."

       4             This technology is designed to provide

       5      identity authentication and location throughout any

       6      supply chain, including the supply chain of the

       7      SATs.

       8             Our marks have already been deployed by the

       9      federal government -- the three-letter agencies --

      10      to provide the highest security identity systems

      11      available.

      12             We are fully prepared to help the

      13      Higher Education Committee in New York State

      14      eliminate any uncertainty or impersonation in

      15      current SAT testing practices.

      16                  [New slide being shown.]

      17             So, this begins with an enhanced SAT

      18      pre-registration.

      19             Each student must register at their home

      20      school, and there is no reason why that can't be

      21      done, and present legally binding identity-proving

      22      documents.

      23             No student ID, no letters from guidance

      24      counselors or parents; only, birth certificates,

      25      driver license, passports, or military documents.







                                                                   73
       1             A student's photograph is taken, as shown in

       2      this slide, and it's uploaded to a private secure

       3      "cloud," and associated with a unique digital DNA

       4      code, which is eventually printed on the student

       5      documents.

       6             That code can be read by a mobile phone; by

       7      any mobile phone.

       8                  [New slide being shown.]

       9             An SAT digital ID card is produced in a

      10      secured central location, and then mailed to the

      11      student's school.

      12             A unique DNA sequence -- again, not a human

      13      sequence, but a botanical sequence -- is included in

      14      the ink used to print a student-unique digital DNA

      15      code.

      16             So, the code that's shown on each of the ID

      17      cards is unique to that particular student, and

      18      cannot be copied even with the photo copier, because

      19      that code is impregnated with the DNA marker which

      20      itself cannot be copied.

      21             So, that mark is elevated to a forensic

      22      level.

      23             The digital DNA code, the sequence of the

      24      DNA, the student photo, the student address, the

      25      school, and serialized Health in America are all







                                                                   74
       1      associated with each card.

       2             Additional rapid reading, covert, which I'd

       3      rather not describe, field identification marks are

       4      associated with the card.

       5             So, for example:  A proctor roaming the hall

       6      would have the ability to authenticate the card in

       7      the way that the student won't know about.

       8                  [New slide being shown.]

       9             On test day, the student presents the digital

      10      SAT entry ID card, as shown above.

      11             The digital code is scanned by any

      12      smartphone.  And, we also have smartphones that are

      13      capable of scanning hundreds of cards in a few

      14      seconds.  They scan at the rate of one per

      15      millisecond using an infrared reader.

      16             Each time a card is scanned, the digital code

      17      is brought down from the "cloud," the identity is

      18      retrieved and portrayed on the iPhone, or,

      19      smartphone.

      20             So, identity is achieved in front of the

      21      proctor three ways:  It's on the student's card,

      22      whose photo matches the student; and it's on the

      23      proctor's smartphone, whose photo matches, both, the

      24      student and the ID card.

      25                  [New slide being shown.]







                                                                   75
       1             Some of the additional protection on the card

       2      consists of covert markers.  We have covert markers

       3      that are optical, ultraviolet, infrared, physical,

       4      and chemical.  And all of those can also be read by

       5      hand-held devices in the corridor, or, anywhere.

       6             Now, when it's read, analytics are reported

       7      in real time through Google Maps, and the agency

       8      controlling the web portal -- whether it's the

       9      school, where it's the Higher Education Committee,

      10      whether it's the College Board -- would have access

      11      to real-time data as to where that student is at the

      12      moment that their card were read; or, whether or not

      13      that student is roaming, and could possibly be an

      14      impersonator.  But, as they roam, each of their

      15      locations would be noted forensically.

      16                  [New slide being shown.]

      17             And then, finally, as perhaps the highest

      18      level of authentication available, is the forensic

      19      DNA element.

      20             While the roaming proctors can amplify any

      21      student's ID with the UV light, the identity can be

      22      authenticated anytime with a smartphone.

      23             In the event of a suspected impersonation or

      24      a falsified card, this slide shows the forensic

      25      sampling, as a CSI would do, with a simple swab,







                                                                   76
       1      that removes using a special approach, the DNA

       2      that's been embedded in various locations in that

       3      card.

       4             That would ascertain the identity of that

       5      card, without doubt, in court.  An expert witness

       6      report would be produced by the forensic scientist

       7      that applied DNA, and provided to a prosecutor.

       8                  [New slide being shown.]

       9             Secure checkout:  The student's identity is

      10      once again verified at the conclusion of the test.

      11             And I should say, that you could also print

      12      the digital DNA code on the test itself, to match it

      13      to the card.

      14             But, under the circumstances, we think the

      15      system is tight enough that you may not have to do

      16      that.

      17             And, both, time and location are recorded on

      18      the SAT portal in real-time.

      19             Now, these very brief videos portray, in

      20      sequence, so that you can see exactly how it would

      21      work.

      22             Pre-registration:  It's a very smooth

      23      process, done simply.

      24             The data are uploaded to the "cloud."  The

      25      data from the cloud is used to print, in a







                                                                   77
       1      centralized location, the information for the card,

       2      and the card is shipped back to the school; picked

       3      up by the student.

       4                  [Videos being shown.]

       5             SENATOR LAVALLE:  I think we, uhm -- I think

       6      we get the, uhm --

       7             DR. JAMES HAYWARD:  Sure, you get the point.

       8             SENATOR LAVALLE:  How much does this cost?

       9             DR. JAMES HAYWARD:  Well, the DNA required to

      10      embed the card is infinitesimally small.

      11             Our analytical methods allow us to detect,

      12      literally, as little as a single card.

      13             So, the DNA required, per card, is really

      14      pennies, or less.

      15             SENATOR LAVALLE:  But there's a -- so, if

      16      someone came to you and said, "We have a million

      17      students in a year, in New York, and we want to put

      18      this methodology into use," what would be the cost

      19      to College Board?

      20             DR. JAMES HAYWARD:  I'll tell you the

      21      variables, and then tell you what I think it would

      22      actually cost.

      23             The variables would be:

      24             How many locations we would have to originate

      25      the students, upload the data from.







                                                                   78
       1             You have to have a server at each location.

       2      Chances are, the schools already have those;

       3             You'd have to have a camera capable of taking

       4      their photograph.  Chances are, the schools already

       5      have those.

       6             When it comes to authentication, we have two

       7      tools:

       8             We have the hand-held rapid-reading tool.

       9      And it's a little hard for us, given the data that

      10      we have heard, to estimate the numbers of those

      11      tools.  They cost a couple of hundred dollars each.

      12             The DNA-based authentication, which produces

      13      court-valid data, runs on the order of four to

      14      five hundred dollars.

      15             But, the number of those authentications

      16      required would be limited by only those cases in

      17      which there is now, because you have selection

      18      processes, based on rapid screenings, when you

      19      arrive at serious doubt that there is a crime that's

      20      been produced, the number of those events, as we'd

      21      even heard from ETS and the College Board, relative

      22      to the total number of students taking the test, is

      23      quite small.

      24             So, the cost of authentication could actually

      25      be dialed in to whatever budget the College Board







                                                                   79
       1      wants to work with.

       2             And, you know, could easily be under a dollar

       3      a card.

       4             SENATOR LAVALLE:  $100 a card.

       5             DR. JAMES HAYWARD:  Under a dollar a card.

       6             SENATOR STAVISKY:  A dollar -- one dollar.

       7             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Under a dollar.

       8             Okay.

       9             Okay.

      10             SENATOR STAVISKY:  I have two really quick --

      11             DR. JAMES HAYWARD:  Sure.

      12             SENATOR STAVISKY:  -- two really quick

      13      questions.

      14             Number one:  Have you approached

      15      College Board with this technology?

      16             DR. JAMES HAYWARD:  We have not.

      17             Our platform has been used by the federal

      18      government, by the highest secure facilities, that

      19      we can't talk about.

      20             And, as we became aware -- we were unaware of

      21      the SAT issue -- we rapidly developed the system

      22      that we think would work quite well, would be quite

      23      readily managed, and could be rapidly deployed.

      24             SENATOR STAVISKY:  And my last question was

      25      presented by my Senate fellow, Vincent Stark, and he







                                                                   80
       1      has a very interesting question:  What do you do in

       2      the case of twins?

       3             DR. JAMES HAYWARD:  I use -- since --

       4      remember, there is no human DNA involved --

       5             SENATOR STAVISKY:  So there's no human DNA --

       6             DR. JAMES HAYWARD:  -- at all.

       7             SENATOR STAVISKY:  -- in the photographs,

       8      presumably, might be a question?

       9             DR. JAMES HAYWARD:  Yes, but they would also

      10      be given different codes.

      11             SENATOR STAVISKY:  DNA.  Yeah, okay.

      12             DR. JAMES HAYWARD:  Their codes would be

      13      distinct --

      14             SENATOR STAVISKY:  You've answered my

      15      question.

      16             DR. JAMES HAYWARD:  -- and their markers

      17      would be distinct.

      18             We'd have no trouble.

      19             SENATOR STAVISKY:  No trouble.

      20             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Yeah.

      21             SENATOR STAVISKY:  Thank you.

      22             SENATOR LAVALLE:  I'm just going to give you,

      23      for your own, if you could jot these numbers down,

      24      and we could talk about it at some other time.

      25             And, this is for the other two groups that







                                                                   81
       1      are going to testify.

       2             There are 170,000 students who took the SAT

       3      in New York in 2011.  It's given 8 times a year, at

       4      138 locations.

       5             SENATOR STAVISKY:  That's just New York.

       6      They would do --

       7             SENATOR LAVALLE:  That's just New York.

       8             SENATOR STAVISKY:  -- and they would do

       9      this -- presumably, they would do this nationally.

      10             I think Mr. Elmsdorf, from the College Board,

      11      testified, there were 2 million people, nationally,

      12      last year, who took the College Board.

      13             MALE UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  Is that,

      14      170,000 each time, or is that total?

      15             [Inaudible] eight times a year.

      16             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Is that total?

      17             FEMALE UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  [Inaudible].

      18             SENATOR LAVALLE:  That was total.

      19             MALE UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  Total,

      20      eight times a year?

      21             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Total.

      22             DR. JAMES HAYWARD:  Yes, I should point out

      23      the scalability of our process.

      24             That, we have marked over a billion items to

      25      date.







                                                                   82
       1             That, in our defense relationship, we are

       2      working a microchip annual turnover of some

       3      300 billion chips, with another 100 billion

       4      counterfeit chips.

       5             The system is extremely scalable.

       6             What we would like to propose to the

       7      Committee, as well as, perhaps to the College Board,

       8      is a pilot program, which could be placed underway

       9      quite rapidly, perhaps at one or two schools, in the

      10      very near term, under very affordable circumstances,

      11      and demonstrate the complete utility of the method,

      12      with little delay.

      13             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Okay, just in closing, and,

      14      this is not only for you, Dr. Hayward, but for the

      15      other members, as I had said, my opening remarks,

      16      you and the other two individuals came forward as

      17      citizens, to say:  Hey, we have something that might

      18      work.

      19             From this point forward, the Committee has no

      20      jurisdiction.  It is, either, College Board that

      21      would entertain calling any one of the three of you,

      22      or whoever else is out there.

      23             We're just, kind of, a facilitator.

      24             And as I said, we didn't need to hire anyone

      25      to have people come forward and give us good solid







                                                                   83
       1      ideas.

       2             Thank you for your testimony.

       3             DR. JAMES HAYWARD:  You're very welcome.

       4             SENATOR STAVISKY:  Thank you.

       5             SENATOR LAVALLE:  David Wicker,

       6      vice president of research and development,

       7      DSS - Security Wise.

       8             David, you will introduce your associate --

       9             DAVID WICKER:  Yes.

      10             SENATOR LAVALLE:  -- who I have met, but...

      11             DAVID WICKER:  Good afternoon, ladies and

      12      gentlemen of the Committee.

      13             I have, uhm -- I'm David Wicker.

      14             And this gentleman is Jody Sherman.  He's the

      15      Document Security Systems' senior business

      16      development specialist.

      17             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Nice and loud so people can

      18      hear you in the back.

      19             DAVID WICKER:  Thank you for inviting me to

      20      speak on the policies and procedures of standardized

      21      tests.

      22             My name is David Wicker, and I'm the

      23      vice president of research and development for

      24      Document Security Systems, a Rochester,

      25      New York-based technology company with over







                                                                   84
       1      100 employees.

       2             Representing DSS, I also serve as a member

       3      and committee chairperson for the Document Security

       4      Alliance, an organization comprised of industry

       5      experts and government officials that make and guide

       6      recommendations on U.S. security documents.

       7             I'm also an advisory board member of the

       8      Utica State College's Center for ID Management and

       9      Identity Protection Organization.

      10             And, I teach periodic seminars on substrate

      11      security features at the Rochester Institute of

      12      Technology, and several federal agencies.

      13             Now, as to why I'm here addressing

      14      standardized testing procedures, and possible

      15      cheating preventions that could be put into place,

      16      there are multiple points in the process where

      17      security can be added.

      18             First:  One first protection, in the

      19      standardized test booklets and the accompanying

      20      answer sheets, without compromising legibility to

      21      the test applicants or the answer-sheet scanning

      22      equipment, would be the addition of a technology

      23      that appears as a light-gray tint.

      24             This tint has been certified by the

      25      Rochester Institute of Technology, to be used in







                                                                   85
       1      digital printing or office printing, as a test

       2      material that would create robust warning messages

       3      if the document was copied or stamped.

       4             So, in other words:  If someone was trying to

       5      bring a counterfeit or a duplicated document into

       6      the test site, just switch.

       7             I've an example here.

       8             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Okay.

       9                  [Document handed to the Chairman.]

      10             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Thank you.

      11             DAVID WICKER:  So, that is a test for

      12      citizenship.  And the inside sheet is a copy off a

      13      standard color copier.

      14                  [Document being reviewed by Committee

      15        members.]

      16             DAVID WICKER:  So, those warning messages

      17      would appear on the criminal's computer screen, or

      18      on the output of the copier scan, and stop them from

      19      duplicating the test or inserting other information.

      20             SENATOR LAVALLE:  The alleged criminal.

      21             DAVID WICKER:  Yes.

      22             Okay.

      23             We have many types of technology.

      24             The technology that you see there, is used on

      25      documents that are in your back pocket today, and in







                                                                   86
       1      your vehicle.  So, the information is quite robust,

       2      as far as imaging technology.

       3             So, we talked about these tests being

       4      administered in world.

       5             We operate in the world, in over 90 countries

       6      now, to protect government documents.

       7             So, you're giving basic printing technology

       8      to the documents themselves.

       9             Now, this would lead to the document that we

      10      talked about, that would be -- that would gather the

      11      student's signature at the home school.

      12             So, we can put technology in that document,

      13      that can be verified at the test site.

      14             I'm going to -- I'll give Jody another

      15      document, here.

      16             So, this is an idea, example, of an image

      17      that was put in by a normal desktop printer, that

      18      can't be copied or scanned.  It's an identifier that

      19      could be visualized at the test site by a simple

      20      hand-held lens.

      21                  [Document handed to the Chairman, and

      22        reviewed by Committee members.]

      23             SENATOR STAVISKY:  Well, I'll be darned.

      24                  [Discussion being held off the record

      25        between Committee members and Jody Sherman at the







                                                                   87
       1        Committee's table.]

       2             DAVID WICKER:  So, specific information about

       3      the student could be put in at the home school.  It

       4      would not be known to the student.  They couldn't

       5      decipher that image, until it was recognized or

       6      authenticated at the test by the proctor.

       7             JODY SHERMAN:  And all those lenses are

       8      different.  So, you can't have one application, then

       9      pick this lens over, and use it.

      10             SENATOR STAVISKY:  And they can't replicate

      11      the lens?

      12             JODY SHERMAN:  Correct.

      13             DAVID WICKER:  What I described, there would

      14      be -- during the registration process, you'd be able

      15      to -- they'd be able to vet the information the

      16      student gave them, and put some of that information

      17      in the hidden image, to be verified by the proctor

      18      at the test site.

      19             A step further could include a portable

      20      digital system that would integrate the identity of

      21      the student to the answer sheet.

      22             Upon arriving at the test location, the

      23      student's registration form would have a bar code

      24      that would be scanned into the computer, to bring up

      25      the personal information.







                                                                   88
       1             The student would then be photographed on the

       2      site, and the student's photo would be printed

       3      alongside the bar code on their answer sheet.

       4             The digital photo would be stored in the

       5      database with the student-identity information.

       6             When the test has been scored, the results

       7      can be printed onto the secure paper, along with the

       8      student photo ID taken at the time of the exam.

       9             The test results, sent to the school and

      10      parents, would show immediate evidence that someone

      11      else other than their child took the test.

      12             The photo on the actual answer sheet would

      13      back up if there were databased error claims.

      14             While I could go on further, my time is about

      15      up.

      16             Exam security procedures could be explored

      17      much more thoroughly, to create custom, effective

      18      solutions.

      19             SENATOR STAVISKY:  Thank you.

      20             Interesting.

      21             And what would this cost?

      22             DAVID WICKER:  This is --

      23             SENATOR LAVALLE:  That's the bottom-line

      24      question.

      25             SENATOR STAVISKY:  Yeah.







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       1             DAVID WICKER:  -- there's two ways to deliver

       2      it --

       3             SENATOR STAVISKY:  The State is not paying

       4      for it.

       5             DAVID WICKER:  Right.  Right.

       6             There's two ways to deliver it:  Normal

       7      offset printing, or digitally.

       8             It -- right now, the tests are printed with

       9      black ink on white paper.

      10             We're utilizing that same process, so, we're

      11      talking pennies, to give currency-level technology.

      12             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Uh-huh.

      13             DAVID WICKER:  Currency level of counterfeit

      14      protection to the actual test documents.

      15             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Okay.

      16             Citizens stepping forward, giving us ideas;

      17      and, hopefully, College Board ideas.

      18             Thank you.

      19             DAVID WICKER:  Thank you.

      20             SENATOR STAVISKY:  Thank you.

      21             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Ray Philo is the director

      22      of research operations, Department of Economic Crime

      23      and Justice Studies at Utica College.

      24             RAYMOND PHILO:  Good afternoon.

      25             I would like to read a short statement into







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       1      the record.

       2             Chairman LaValle, and members of the

       3      Committee:  Thank you for the opportunity to testify

       4      on the important issue of cheating on

       5      college-entrance exams.

       6             We live in a very credentialed society, and

       7      these credentials indicate that a particular person

       8      is educated, trained, and competent within a certain

       9      discipline.

      10             The consequences of cheating on competency

      11      exams, whether they be SAT exams,

      12      professional-licensing exams, or civil-service

      13      exams, has a detrimental effect on our society, our

      14      safety, and, ultimately, on this nation's ability to

      15      compete effectively in an ever-contentious and

      16      competitive global economy.

      17             Cheating also violates those core values

      18      imparted to us by our parents, schools, and

      19      professional training, and provides an unfair

      20      advantage to the cheater, at the expense and

      21      detriment to the honest student test taker.

      22             This Committee has heard, in previous

      23      testimony, on the very consequences of cheating;

      24      therefore, I will not take up your valuable time

      25      discussing these consequences further.







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       1             My time can best be used to address the issue

       2      of test-event security, and some mitigating

       3      strategies that should be considered to prevent

       4      further instances of cheating.

       5             At Utica College, located in

       6      Upstate New York, we maintain a research center,

       7      referred to as "CIMIP"; the Center for Identity

       8      Management and Information Protection.

       9             CIMIP performs cutting-edge research on a

      10      variety of identity management issues, ranging from,

      11      medical identity fraud, to sex-offender identity

      12      manipulation.

      13             Our research indicates, for the most part,

      14      that in our very technologically advanced society,

      15      the bad guys are employing identity-manipulation

      16      techniques much faster than authorities are engaging

      17      in counterstrategies.

      18             Identity manipulation can also employ

      19      low-technology techniques with surprising results.

      20             A cursory review of the facts surrounding the

      21      cheating incidents that allegedly occurred in the

      22      Great Neck area indicates a system begging for

      23      security enhancements.

      24             These security enhancements need not involve

      25      overly expensive technology or the creation of an







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       1      additional bureaucracy to enhance test-event

       2      security.

       3             The critical issue in test-event security, is

       4      verifying that the test taker is actually the

       5      biological person who is authorized to take the

       6      exam.

       7             As we have experienced, presenting

       8      identification is not enough to present [sic]

       9      unauthorized individuals from taking an exam.

      10             We must adopt, what we refer to as, "a

      11      two-factor security protocol," that authenticates

      12      that the identity document presented actually is the

      13      person authorized to take the exam.

      14             To put it simply:  Identity without

      15      authentication lacks proof.

      16             Identity authentication could be a relatively

      17      simple and inexpensive process, or it could be

      18      complex and very expensive, depending on the

      19      measures desired and employed.

      20             For example:  A relatively simple

      21      authentication of a person's identity could be a

      22      "challenge" question, where the -- where only the

      23      actual authorized person would know the answer

      24      without knowing the "challenge" question beforehand.

      25             Biometrics could be utilized as a method of







                                                                   93
       1      authentication.

       2             "Biometric" refers to the biological

       3      identifiers unique to only one person.  These could

       4      include, a fingerprint, a retinal scan,

       5      facial-recognition technology, et cetera.

       6             While this authentication procedure can be

       7      complex, it may be expensive.

       8             They are currently used -- being used in both

       9      public and private sector, and, surely, will be

      10      playing a larger role in our lives in the future.

      11             As a matter of fact, biometrics, in the form

      12      of a fingerprint, has been used in certain

      13      professional-licensing and civil-service exams for

      14      years.

      15             One other area of test-event security that

      16      should be enhanced is staff security training.

      17             We need to ensure that those who proctor

      18      exams have the proper training in recognizing and

      19      evaluating identification documents; and,

      20      subsequently, administering the authentication

      21      process.

      22             Once again, this training not be -- need be

      23      overly expensive or time-consuming.

      24             For example:  The New York State Department

      25      of Motor Vehicle provides excellent training to law







                                                                   94
       1      enforcement, in the evaluation of identity documents

       2      to include drivers licenses.

       3             DMV offers this training through their office

       4      of field investigations, and can be easily adapted

       5      to examination proctors.

       6             I would be remiss if I did not address the

       7      issue of deterrents as a mitigating factor against

       8      cheating on certain exams.

       9             By "deterrents," I refer to the evaluation of

      10      existing statutes and the criminality of cheating on

      11      these exams.

      12             As an individual who had a 30-year

      13      law-enforcement career prior to moving full-time

      14      into academics and research, I can testify as to the

      15      power of deterrents, not with everybody, but with

      16      most people.

      17             It is time that we review our criminal

      18      statutes, as they apply to cheating and identity

      19      crimes, to evaluate if they are robust enough to

      20      deter this activity in the future.

      21             And I do note, the proposed draft

      22      legislation.

      23             In particular, we should consider whether the

      24      statutes of limitations on these types of crimes,

      25      which are generally misdemeanors, depending on the







                                                                   95
       1      fact pattern, are long enough to provide for an

       2      adequate prosecution once cheating is suspected and

       3      determined.

       4             In conclusion:  We, as a society, are

       5      obligated to adequately address the issue of

       6      cheating on certain competency exams before it

       7      becomes prolific, and undermines our economic and

       8      professional credibility worldwide.

       9             As we continue to move at an even faster pace

      10      to an on-line testing world, we must be thought

      11      leaders and innovators in the area of test-event

      12      security.

      13             Once again, I would like to thank this

      14      Committee for the -- their important work they're

      15      doing in this area, and for the opportunity to speak

      16      on this important issue.

      17             I am not here to recommend any particular

      18      type of technology or protocol; just to let the

      19      Committee know, based on my work, that those

      20      protocols and that -- those technologies, either

      21      low-tech or high-tech, do exist.  And I believe,

      22      even considering the numbers of test takers, that

      23      they're adequate for the volume.

      24

      25







                                                                   96
       1             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Senator Griffo had asked

       2      before -- in you -- first page, you talk about,

       3      cheating violates core values.

       4             His question was:  Are things worse today in

       5      cheating?

       6             Are those core values just disintegrated, or,

       7      is always been about the same level?

       8             RAYMOND PHILO:  Well, I think it always

       9      existed, Senator.

      10             However, technology, as indicated by previous

      11      testimony, really has leveraged core values, and

      12      challenged the core values, because we've made it --

      13      the technology has made it a lot easier to cheat and

      14      engage in criminality, generally.

      15             So opportunity -- I guess the answer to the

      16      question:  The opportunity is there, much more than

      17      I believe.

      18             SENATOR LAVALLE:  You talked about proctor

      19      training.

      20             College Board said they're enhancing that, so

      21      that fits in.

      22             Let me ask you:  You spent some time, a full

      23      paragraph, on deterrence.

      24             RAYMOND PHILO:  Yes.

      25             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Is our legislation strong







                                                                   97
       1      enough?

       2             The Committee went through a very lengthy

       3      discussion/debate on -- on what they thought was

       4      appropriate, for those under 21, those over 21.

       5             And I think the legislation is reflective of

       6      that.

       7             In your own professional judgment, do you

       8      think that what we have in our draft bill is strong

       9      enough -- a strong enough deterrent?

      10             RAYMOND PHILO:  I do, and I'll tell you why.

      11             First of all, I base my opinion, not only as

      12      an academic, a person who -- we're dealing with

      13      identity issues all the time, especially in on-line

      14      learning, but also as a career law-enforcement

      15      officer.

      16             I was very pleased to have the opportunity

      17      this morning to review the draft legislation.

      18             It was -- it's, uhm, I think robust enough,

      19      that it addresses the issues; especially the issues

      20      of the statute of limitations.

      21             Statute of limitations, generally, on

      22      misdemeanors are two year.  That may not be enough.

      23             That's indicated by district attorney, also,

      24      of Nassau County.

      25             Some of these crimes, these proposed







                                                                   98
       1      statutes, are felonies -- low-grade felonies, but,

       2      nonetheless, which increases the statute of

       3      limitations; allows for the law-enforcement

       4      authorities -- if there is an allegation, the

       5      law-enforcement prosecutorial authorities to deal

       6      with the alleged crime.

       7             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Yeah.  Great.

       8             I have no more questions.

       9             Senator Stavisky?

      10             Senator Griffo?

      11             SENATOR GRIFFO:  Yes, I just want to take the

      12      opportunity, uhm -- just want to take the

      13      opportunity, Ray, to thank you for being here.

      14             RAYMOND PHILO:  Thank you, Senator.

      15             SENATOR GRIFFO:  And, I call him

      16      "Chief Philo," because he was also the head of a

      17      law-enforcement department in New Hartford for a

      18      long time.

      19             And, I think what you said today, though, the

      20      importance is, that we do have the means, we do have

      21      the technology.  We just need to apply that, and

      22      that we can prevent what we're seeing.

      23             Correct?

      24             I mean, the incidents that we're seeing now,

      25      are preventable?







                                                                   99
       1             RAYMOND PHILO:  Absolutely.

       2             And I think what the previous two individuals

       3      that testified also, indicated that also.

       4             The technology is here.  It doesn't need to

       5      be overly expensive.  It doesn't need to create an

       6      additional, large bureaucratic appendage to

       7      administer these technological methods.

       8             I think we can get the job done very

       9      effectively, even considering the number of

      10      individuals that take the tests.

      11             SENATOR GRIFFO:  Utica College has a unique

      12      situation, because you do have the Department of

      13      Economic Crime and Justice Studies, which deals with

      14      a lot of issues, not only here in the state, but

      15      across the nation.

      16             Do you believe, even though the College Board

      17      has primary responsibility, obviously, for the

      18      testing, do the universities all have a role to play

      19      in this too?

      20             Because, obviously, they're impacted as a

      21      result of what takes place, and who may be admitted

      22      to schools.

      23             So, what role does -- I mean, you're unique

      24      in what you can offer from this specific department.

      25             Do you see a role for the universities, in







                                                                   100
       1      general, also to engage in this?

       2             RAYMOND PHILO:  Oh, I do.

       3             And to a certain extent, the universities --

       4      colleges and universities are going to be the

       5      victims of a cheating scandal, if you kind of look

       6      at it that way.

       7             We're going be the ones, that we're going to

       8      have to deal with the -- well, quite frankly, the

       9      inferior student that comes on board, with false

      10      credentials.

      11             So, yeah, we have a large role to play in the

      12      mitigation process.

      13             Plus, the whole spectra of

      14      identity-management manipulation we're dealing with

      15      all the time.  It's going to -- and it is a big

      16      issue now, because, as on-line teaching takes off,

      17      and very much has at most colleges and universities,

      18      we've got to, not only identify, but authenticate,

      19      the person on that computer a thousand miles away is

      20      the actual person taking the exam.

      21             And, that's part of the accreditation

      22      process.

      23             So, we're dealing with the same issues, at a

      24      different level, or a different scale, and maybe a

      25      different level of technology also.







                                                                   101
       1             But, basically we're all dealing with this

       2      issue of, identity, and authenticating, that the

       3      person who's taking a competency exam is the actual

       4      person authorized to do it.

       5             SENATOR GRIFFO:  I want to give a compliment

       6      to work that do you, and the college, and, I want to

       7      thank you for being here.

       8             RAYMOND PHILO:  Thank you, sir.

       9             SENATOR GRIFFO:  Mr. Chairman?

      10             SENATOR STAVISKY:  May I just ask -- may I

      11      add -- I'm sorry.

      12             And may I add, I am sorry that the

      13      College Board and SAT folks left --

      14             SENATOR LAVALLE:  No, they're --

      15             SENATOR STAVISKY:  They're here?

      16             Great.

      17             Great, I am happy you're here.

      18             That, here is an example of people coming

      19      forward to volunteer information.

      20             And I hope that you take that to -- back with

      21      you.  And I -- because I'm sure everybody wants to

      22      work together to resolve this issue.

      23             MALE UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  Absolutely.

      24             SENATOR STAVISKY:  Thank you.

      25             SENATOR LAVALLE:  Okay, I think we had some







                                                                   102
       1      great testimony.

       2             Being a former teacher, I am going to give a

       3      homework assignment for College Board:  By the end

       4      of the week, we would like your reactions to the

       5      draft bill.

       6             We are going to have a Committee meeting on

       7      February the 13th.  And at that meeting, I would

       8      like the principals of both ETS and College Board to

       9      be at that Committee meeting -- it will be a full

      10      Committee meeting -- with the possibility of moving

      11      the bill out of Committee on the 13th of February.

      12             I will be having conversations with my

      13      counterpart, Assemblymember Glick, who is the Chair

      14      in the Assembly Committee, to get her reactions,

      15      where they might be over in the Assembly.

      16             And, so, we're not on a slow track; and we

      17      would like compliance, with the principals to be at

      18      that Committee meeting.

      19             Thank you for all being here.

      20

      21                  (Whereupon, at approximately 2:05 p.m.,

      22        the public hearing, held before the New York State

      23        Senate Standing Committee on Higher Education,

      24        concluded.)

      25                            ---oOo---