Regular Session - March 18, 2010

                                                            1641



         1                 NEW YORK STATE SENATE

         2

         3

         4                THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

         5

         6

         7

         8

         9                   ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                    March 18, 2010

        11                      12:09 p.m.

        12

        13

        14                    REGULAR SESSION

        15

        16

        17

        18  SENATOR NEIL D. BRESLIN, Acting President

        19  ANGELO J. APONTE, Secretary

        20

        21

        22

        23

        24

        25



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         1                 P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         3       Senate will come to order.

         4                  I ask all to rise and repeat with

         5       me the Pledge of Allegiance.

         6                  (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

         7       the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    In the

         9       absence of clergy, may we bow our heads for a

        10       moment of silence.

        11                  (Whereupon, the assemblage

        12       respected a moment of silence.)

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        14       reading of the Journal.

        15                  The Secretary will read.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

        17       Wednesday, March 17, the Senate met pursuant

        18       to adjournment.  The Journal of Tuesday,

        19       March 16, was read and approved.  On motion,

        20       Senate adjourned.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        22       Without objection, the Journal stands approved

        23       as read.

        24                  Presentation of petitions.

        25                  Messages from the Assembly.



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         1                  Messages from the Governor.

         2                  Reports of standing committees.

         3                  Reports of select committees.

         4                  Communications and reports from

         5       state officers.

         6                  Motions and resolutions.

         7                  Senator Klein.

         8                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Thank you,

         9       Mr. President.

        10                  On behalf of Senator Dilan, on

        11       page number 16 I offer the following

        12       amendments to Calendar Number 222, Senate

        13       Print Number 1083, and ask that said bill

        14       retain its place on Third Reading Calendar.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    So

        16       ordered.

        17                  SENATOR KLEIN:    On behalf of

        18       Senator Stachowski, on page number 11 I offer

        19       the following amendments to Calendar Number

        20       119, Senate Print Number 6434, and ask that

        21       said bill retain its place on Third Reading

        22       Calendar.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    So

        24       ordered.

        25                  SENATOR KLEIN:    On behalf of



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         1       Senator Parker, on page number 10 I offer the

         2       following amendments to Calendar Number 112,

         3       Senate Print Number 2274, and ask that said

         4       bill retain its place on Third Reading

         5       Calendar.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    So

         7       ordered.

         8                  Senator Klein.

         9                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President,

        10       are there any substitutions at the desk?

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        12       Secretary will read.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    On page 16,

        14       Senator Valesky moves to discharge, from the

        15       Committee on Finance, Assembly Bill Number

        16       10093 and substitute it for the identical

        17       Senate Bill Number 3195B, Third Reading

        18       Calendar 223.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        20       Substitution ordered.

        21                  Senator Klein.

        22                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, I

        23       believe there's a resolution at the desk by

        24       Senator Seward.  I ask that the resolution be

        25       read in its entirety and move for its



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         1       immediate adoption and give Senator Seward the

         2       opportunity to speak on his resolution.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         4       Senator Klein, has this resolution been deemed

         5       privileged and submitted by the office of the

         6       Temporary President?

         7                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes, it has,

         8       Mr. President.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        10       Secretary will read.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

        12       Seward, legislative resolution urging the

        13       New York State Congressional delegation to

        14       enact House Print 2156/Senate Print 971,

        15       "Jason's Law."

        16                  "WHEREAS, House Print 2156/Senate

        17       Print 971 would implement a pilot program to

        18       establish parking facilities to address the

        19       shortage of safe long-term parking for

        20       commercial vehicles on the national highway

        21       system; and

        22                  "WHEREAS, It is the position of

        23       this Legislative Body that House Print

        24       2156/Senate Print 971, also known as 'Jason's

        25       Law,' proposed by Congressman Tonko and



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         1       Senator Schumer, which would provide a

         2       long-term comprehensive plan to address safety

         3       issues that face our nation's truckers, should

         4       be supported by the New York State

         5       Congressional delegation; and

         6                  "WHEREAS, This law is in

         7       recognition of the tragic death of Jason

         8       Rivenberg of Schoharie County, who was killed

         9       at an abandoned gas station in South Carolina

        10       while following federal rest regulations for

        11       truck drivers, and who is survived by his

        12       wife, Hope, and their three children, Joshua,

        13       Hezekiah, and Logan; and

        14                  "WHEREAS, It is the intent of this

        15       Legislative Body to support the enactment of

        16       'Jason's Law,' in order to ensure that truck

        17       drivers have adequate facilities to enable

        18       them to comply with federal laws without risk

        19       to their personal safety; now, therefore, be

        20       it

        21                  "RESOLVED, That the New York State

        22       Congressional delegation be and hereby is

        23       respectfully memorialized by this Legislative

        24       Body to vote in favor of House Print

        25       2156/Senate Print 971, 'Jason's Law,' and be



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         1       it further

         2                  "RESOLVED, that copies of this

         3       resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

         4       to each member of the Congressional delegation

         5       from the State of New York."

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         7       Senator Seward.

         8                  SENATOR SEWARD:    Thank you,

         9       Mr. President.

        10                  This resolution is urging the

        11       federal government and in particular our

        12       New York Congressional delegation to enact

        13       "Jason's Law."  This measure, that's being

        14       sponsored by Congressman Tonko and Senator

        15       Schumer, was prompted by a very tragic

        16       incident involving one of our mutual

        17       constituents -- that is, Jason Rivenberg, who

        18       was a truck driver from Schoharie County who

        19       was killed last year, just about a year or so

        20       ago, during a robbery as he sat in his rig at

        21       an abandoned gas station in South Carolina

        22       that was often used by truckers as a rest area

        23       because there was no other safe truck parking

        24       area available in that area.

        25                  At the time of his death, Jason was



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         1       a mere 12 miles from his destination but was

         2       unable to make his delivery at that time

         3       because he was too early.

         4                  Now, this tragedy highlights the

         5       seriousness of the problem surrounding the

         6       lack of available safe, secure parking

         7       facilities for our nation's truckers.  We rely

         8       on commercial trucks to transport goods and

         9       services that are necessary for our economic

        10       well-being and our everyday lives, and it is

        11       vital that we also ensure that truck drivers

        12       who are transporting these very essential

        13       products have safe places to rest while they

        14       are waiting for pending appointments or in

        15       order to comply with the federal hours of

        16       service regulations.

        17                  As many of you know, federal law

        18       mandates that drivers rest for 10 hours after

        19       driving for 11 hours straight, and federal law

        20       also prohibits them from driving more than

        21       60 hours in total over a seven-day period.  So

        22       if we're going to require truckers to take

        23       regular breaks, it is imperative that we

        24       provide them with a safe place to rest.

        25                  This is a real problem, because



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         1       there is a severe shortage of such safe

         2       parking areas for motor carriers, forcing many

         3       drivers, like Jason that night, to park in a

         4       desolate, poorly lit area with little or no

         5       security.

         6                  Now, the federal legislation would

         7       authorize the federal government to work with

         8       the states and help fund pilot projects to

         9       expand and publicize parking options for

        10       commercial vehicles.  The result would be a

        11       variety of improvements, including building

        12       new rest areas with adequate parking,

        13       expanding parking near truck stops at existing

        14       facilities, constructing turnouts along the

        15       highway system for commercial vehicles, as

        16       well as promoting and publicizing the

        17       available parking options in our highway

        18       system.

        19                  Now, Jason's family, who is joining

        20       us today in the chamber, have just returned

        21       from Washington, where they spent a number of

        22       days tirelessly lobbying members of Congress

        23       in support of "Jason's Law."  And they have

        24       turned their personal tragedy into a real

        25       cause which is so important to us all.



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         1                  And joining us here today, and I

         2       want to recognize them, is Hope Rivenberg,

         3       Jason's wife, and their three children,

         4       Joshua, Hezekiah and Logan -- and Hezekiah and

         5       Logan are twins, and today is actually their

         6       first birthday.  And they were born a few days

         7       after their father's death -- and Tim and

         8       Sandy Hardendorf, other family members, and

         9       Butch and Cathy Savage, as well as Chip

        10       Savage.

        11                  And this family has been through a

        12       lot, and I hope that the passage of our

        13       resolution today will send a clear message to

        14       our representatives in Washington that

        15       "Jason's Law" must be enacted at the federal

        16       level so that we can prevent other families

        17       from going through the pain and agony that

        18       Jason's family has been forced to endure.

        19                  So, Mr. President and my

        20       colleagues, thank you for your support of this

        21       resolution.  And, Mr. President, I would

        22       invite all members of the body to join me as

        23       cosponsors should they wish to do so.  This is

        24       an important issue for all of us.

        25                  Thank you.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         2       you, Senator Seward.

         3                  The question is on the resolution.

         4       All those in favor please signify by saying

         5       aye.

         6                  (Response of "Aye.")

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         8       Opposed, nay.

         9                  (No response.)

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        11       resolution is adopted unanimously.

        12                  And Senator Seward has asked that

        13       all of us will be on for cosponsorship unless

        14       someone comes to the desk and seeks an

        15       opposite position.

        16                  Senator Klein.

        17                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, at

        18       this time can we please move to a reading of

        19       the calendar.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        21       Secretary will read.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        23       108, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 1055C,

        24       an act to amend the Banking Law, in relation

        25       to preauthorized electronic fund transfers.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

         2       the last section.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         4       act shall take effect immediately.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

         6       the roll.

         7                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        10       bill is passed.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        12       203, by Member of the Assembly Pretlow,

        13       Assembly Print Number 5873, an act to amend

        14       the Public Officers Law, in relation to

        15       location.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        17       the last section.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect immediately.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        21       the roll.

        22                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        24       Senator DeFrancisco, to explain his vote.

        25                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    You know, I



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         1       had expressed a similar point of view on

         2       another piece of legislation that was brought

         3       in the past dealing with making assessors or

         4       tax collectors give a receipt when an

         5       application for a STAR program was requested.

         6       And there was no empirical evidence about that

         7       as to why it was really needed.  There's no

         8       evidence that tax collectors or assessors

         9       didn't provide that when requested.

        10                  This is another bill -- and we've

        11       got so many serious issues here -- but this

        12       bill says public bodies shall make or cause to

        13       be made all reasonable efforts to ensure that

        14       meetings are held in an appropriate facility

        15       which can adequately accommodate members of

        16       the public who wish to attend such meetings.

        17                  Now, I would be shocked if there's

        18       any public body that would not take reasonable

        19       efforts to provide facilities, appropriate

        20       facilities so people can attend.

        21                  So once again, we've got so many

        22       different issues here that are so important --

        23       most importantly, the budget.  I think this

        24       stuff really is not necessary.  And it's

        25       almost a slap in the face of public bodies if



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         1       they're already complying and they're taking

         2       these reasonable steps.

         3                  So I'll vote yes to avoid a press

         4       release that says that I'm against adequate

         5       facilities.  But I would hope that we'd

         6       concentrate on more substantial type of

         7       legislation.

         8                  Thank you, Mr. President.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        10       you, Senator DeFrancisco.

        11                  Senator DeFrancisco will be

        12       recorded in the affirmative.

        13                  Announce the results.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.  Nays,

        15       0.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        17       bill is passed.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        19       212, by Senator Serrano, Senate Print 3332, an

        20       act to amend the Public Officers Law --

        21                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Lay the bill

        22       aside for the day.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        24       bill is laid aside for the day.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



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         1       213, by Senator C. Johnson --

         2                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Lay the bill

         3       aside for the day.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         5       bill is laid aside for the day.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         7       214, by Member of the Assembly Latimer --

         8                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Lay the bill

         9       aside for the day.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        11       bill is laid aside for the day.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        13       223, substituted earlier today by Member of

        14       the Assembly Destito, Assembly Print Number

        15       10093, an act to amend the Public Officers

        16       Law, in relation to open meetings.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        18       the last section.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

        20       act shall take effect April 1, 2011.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        22       the roll.

        23                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        25       Announce the results.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         3       bill is passed.

         4                  Oh, excuse me.  Senator Saland, to

         5       explain his vote.

         6                  SENATOR SALAND:    I'm certainly

         7       not advocating that anybody vote against this

         8       bill.  I am, however, concerned that this bill

         9       could be more specific in terms of what

        10       authority is granted to a local body in terms

        11       of how they shall govern the recording or

        12       telecasting of a particular meeting, giving

        13       them the right to impose reasonable

        14       limitations.

        15                  I mean, what would you do if 26

        16       people showed up in a town hall with the

        17       capacity of 50 people and they all wanted to

        18       be able to use their video cameras to record

        19       the events of the meeting or of the day?

        20                  And I would hope that the sponsor

        21       would take a look at the likelihood of

        22       providing perhaps some additional guidance,

        23       perhaps restrictions that will make this a bit

        24       more manageable for those who are going to be

        25       subject to this provision of the law.



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         1                  Thank you.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         3       you, Senator Saland.

         4                  Senator Saland will be recorded in

         5       the affirmative.

         6                  Announce the results.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.  Nays,

         8       0.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        10       bill is passed.

        11                  The Secretary will continue to

        12       read.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        14       224, by Member of the Assembly Gottfried,

        15       Assembly Print Number 1138, an act to amend

        16       the Social Services Law, in relation to

        17       authorizing.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        19       the last section.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        21       act shall take effect immediately.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        23       the roll.

        24                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:



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         1       Announce the results.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         4       bill is passed.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         6       229, by Member of the Assembly Sweeney,

         7       Assembly Print Number 8558, an act to amend

         8       the Environmental Conservation Law, in

         9       relation to creating an exemption.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        11       the last section.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        13       act shall take effect immediately.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        15       the roll.

        16                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        18       Announce the results.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        21       bill is passed.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        23       230, by Senator Huntley, Senate Print 6682, an

        24       act to amend Part R2 of Chapter 62 of the Laws

        25       of 2003, amending the Mental Hygiene Law and



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         1       the State Finance Law.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

         3       the last section.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

         5       act shall take effect immediately.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

         7       the roll.

         8                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        10       Announce the results.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        13       bill is passed.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        15       247, by Senator Aubertine, Senate Print 5486,

        16       an act to amend the Town Law and others, in

        17       relation to generic environmental impact

        18       statements.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        20       the last section.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

        22       act shall take effect immediately.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        24       the roll.

        25                  (The Secretary called the roll.)



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         2       Announce the results.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         5       bill is passed.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         7       256, by Senator Valesky --

         8                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Lay the bill

         9       aside for the day.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        11       bill is laid aside for the day.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        13       257, by Senator Klein, Senate Print 6212A, an

        14       act to amend the Real Property Tax Law and the

        15       Tax Law, in relation to the "Middle Class

        16       STAR" rebate program.

        17                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Please lay

        18       the bill aside.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        20       bill is laid aside.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        22       259, by Senator Serrano, Senate Print 6883, an

        23       act to amend the Executive Law, in relation --

        24                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Lay the bill

        25       aside for the day.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         2       bill is laid aside for the day.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         4       260, by Member of the Assembly Destito,

         5       Assembly Print Number 10196, an act to amend

         6       the Public Officers Law, in relation to

         7       enforcement.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

         9       the last section.

        10                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Please lay

        11       the bill aside.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        13       bill is laid aside.

        14                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        15       261, by Senator L. Krueger, Senate Print 7109,

        16       an act to amend the Public Officers Law, in

        17       relation to publishing records.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        19       the last section.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

        21       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        23       the roll.

        24                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:



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         1       Announce the results.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         4       bill is passed.

         5                  That completes the reading, Senator

         6       Klein, of the noncontroversial calendar.

         7                  Senator Klein.

         8                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President,

         9       can we now move to a reading of the

        10       controversial calendar.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        12       Secretary will read.

        13                  The Secretary will also ring the

        14       bell.  Members are all asked to come to the

        15       chambers for the controversial reading of the

        16       calendar.

        17                  Senator Klein.

        18                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, I

        19       request that we start off the controversial

        20       calendar with Calendar Number 260, Senator

        21       Oppenheimer's bill.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        23       Senator Oppenheimer's bill, Calendar Number

        24       260, will now be undertaken.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number



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         1       260, by Member of the Assembly Destito,

         2       Assembly Print Number 10196, an act to amend

         3       the Public Officers Law.

         4                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:

         5       Explanation.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    An

         7       explanation has been requested, Senator

         8       Oppenheimer.

         9                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Thank you.

        10                  Well, actually this is a bill that

        11       we passed last year unanimously and the

        12       Governor vetoed it.  And the -- maybe I'll

        13       tell you briefly.

        14                  What the bill says is if a local

        15       municipal government debates the conditions of

        16       a piece of legislation before them in private,

        17       even though they may take the vote on it in

        18       public, that this violates our Freedom of

        19       Information laws.

        20                  So therefore, in the last bill --

        21       that we passed unanimously last year -- if

        22       that were to occur, then the court could

        23       determine a fine -- a fee -- a fine against

        24       the members of the council or the trustees.

        25                  And the Governor, I think rightly,



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         1       said that that really was not fair and that we

         2       would end up having great difficulty getting

         3       people to serve on our town councils or our

         4       village boards or our city councils if they

         5       thought they had to pay a fine because they

         6       inadvertently -- maybe inadvertently -- held

         7       their discussions in private before taking the

         8       vote in public.

         9                  So now we've taken out the fine and

        10       we've said that instead, if the court finds

        11       that this did happen, that then they would

        12       offer a reprimand, the issue would have to be

        13       discussed in public, and perhaps they might

        14       have to take a class, a little minicourse on

        15       how to do it properly so this thing would not

        16       occur again.

        17                  That's the sum and substance.  It's

        18       a pretty simple bill.  And it's taken out the

        19       fines, which had many of us concerned because

        20       we could see nobody wanting to run for our

        21       municipal governments.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        23       you, Senator Oppenheimer.

        24                  Senator Winner.

        25                  SENATOR WINNER:    Thank you,



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         1       Mr. President.  Will the sponsor yield for a

         2       question or two?

         3                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Absolutely.

         4                  SENATOR WINNER:    Thank you,

         5       Senator.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You

         7       may proceed, Senator Winner.

         8                  SENATOR WINNER:    Thank you,

         9       Senator.

        10                  Senator, this legislation, as you

        11       indicated, was -- it was similar to a bill

        12       that was passed last year.  However, this

        13       legislation was just introduced.  Wasn't this

        14       legislation just introduced very recently, on

        15       March 9th, I believe?

        16                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Yes.

        17                  SENATOR WINNER:    And this is --

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Would

        19       you like Senator Oppenheimer to continue to

        20       yield?

        21                  SENATOR WINNER:    Thank you,

        22       Senator -- Mr. President.  Appreciate it.  If

        23       Senator would continue to yield for a

        24       question.

        25                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Please.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Yes.

         2                  SENATOR WINNER:    You know, this

         3       is Sunshine Week, and celebrating open

         4       government and transparency and the like.  And

         5       I just am kind of curious, in the spirit of

         6       Sunshine Week, this bill was referred to the

         7       Committee on Investigations upon its

         8       introduction and I don't recall having any

         9       kind of vote on it or a meeting as it related

        10       to discussing this bill.

        11                  Was there some exigent

        12       circumstances or something that had this bill

        13       reported out of committee without a vote?

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        15       Senator Oppenheimer.

        16                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    You'll have

        17       to wait a moment for my response because I was

        18       not at the committee when this bill came up.

        19                  I understand that the bill went

        20       through Rules.

        21                  SENATOR WINNER:    Well, the bill

        22       was introduced in --

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        24       Senator Winner, would you like Senator

        25       Oppenheimer to continue to yield?



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         1                  SENATOR WINNER:    Thank you,

         2       Mr. President.  If the Senator would continue

         3       to yield to a question.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         5       Senator Oppenheimer?

         6                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Yes, I

         7       will.

         8                  SENATOR WINNER:    Senator, the

         9       bill was referred to the Committee on

        10       Investigations.  Do you know whether that

        11       committee had a vote on this bill?  Or was it

        12       sort of done in the middle of the night?

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        14       Senator Winner --

        15                  SENATOR WINNER:    Yes,

        16       Mr. President.

        17                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I'll be

        18       happy to respond.

        19                  SENATOR WINNER:    One real

        20       question and one rhetorical.

        21                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I'll be

        22       happy to respond to Senator Winner.  This

        23       bill, it seems that it's a rather simple and

        24       obvious bill, since we passed it unanimously

        25       last year, when it was much more onerous than



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         1       it is now.

         2                  So it was -- you're right, it was

         3       put through Rules so that we would be able to

         4       pass it during the Sunshine Week.

         5                  SENATOR WINNER:    Will the Senator

         6       continue to yield?

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Would

         8       you continue to yield to Senator Winner,

         9       Senator?

        10                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Certainly.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You

        12       may proceed, Senator Winner.

        13                  SENATOR WINNER:    Senator, you

        14       said it was put through Rules.  The bill was

        15       referred to Investigations.  So when was there

        16       a meeting?  Did you ask for the bill to be

        17       taken out of Investigations without a vote and

        18       put into Rules?

        19                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I have not

        20       asked for it to be put into Rules and not into

        21       Investigations.

        22                  But it seems to me that it's a

        23       pretty obvious bill.  And going to Rules is

        24       not -- I know you want to make it into a very

        25       important thing, but this bill, while it is



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         1       something that is open government and is

         2       sunshine, and this is the week for it, it was

         3       expedited.  It's as simple as that.

         4                  SENATOR WINNER:    So the exigent

         5       circumstances is that it's Sunshine Week and

         6       so therefore we want to yank it out of the

         7       committee of reference into Rules so that it

         8       can be on the floor today?

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        10       Senator, even though it's been asked and

        11       answered, you may answer it again.

        12                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I'm sorry

        13       that I didn't hear the question.  But could

        14       you repeat it, please, Senator Winner?

        15                  SENATOR WINNER:    Senator, it

        16       being Sunshine Week and Open Government Week,

        17       maybe I would ask this question.  Have we had

        18       any open sunshine type of meetings on the

        19       budget this week?

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Not

        21       germane.

        22                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I don't

        23       feel that that's germane to this bill.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    That's

        25       not germane to this proceeding.  The question



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         1       out of order.

         2                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    But if I

         3       may respond, I'd like to say that --

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         5       Senator Oppenheimer, the question is out of

         6       order.  It's not germane.  We'll wait and see

         7       if there is another question to be asked.

         8                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Well,

         9       actually --

        10                  SENATOR WINNER:    Would the

        11       Senator yield to a germane question with

        12       regard to the bill before us?

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Would

        14       you agree to answer a germane question,

        15       Senator?

        16                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Yes, I'll

        17       agree to answer a germane question.

        18                  SENATOR WINNER:    So is it your

        19       position that this bill was not properly

        20       referred to the Investigations Committee, or

        21       that there's a new rule that we have about

        22       bills that are simple and that don't need to

        23       be determined by a committee for whatever

        24       criteria we have here and then can immediately

        25       be taken out and put on the floor without any



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         1       committee review?

         2                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Senator

         3       Winner, in response, from what I understand,

         4       there are thousands of bills, through the many

         5       years I've been here, that have come direct

         6       from Rules to the floor.  So I think this is

         7       no exception.

         8                  And that has happened whether it's

         9       a majority or a minority bill, whether you,

        10       your side of the aisle or my side of the aisle

        11       has been in control of this chamber.  So this

        12       is really not a very unusual circumstance.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        14       Senator Winner.

        15                  SENATOR WINNER:    Mr. President,

        16       on the bill.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        18       Senator Winner, on the bill.

        19                  Thank you, Senator Oppenheimer.

        20                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Thank you.

        21                  SENATOR WINNER:    Mr. President,

        22       it's my understanding that the past practice

        23       of this house has been that when the

        24       committees have closed, then under those

        25       circumstances there have been referrals out of



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         1       the committee to the Rules Committee.

         2                  And certainly if there was some

         3       exigent circumstance -- the only exigent

         4       circumstance that I can see in this somewhat

         5       rather tortuous explanation of why we're not

         6       conducting any open meeting or committee

         7       process as it relates to this legislation is

         8       that we wanted to get it done today even

         9       though we've laid aside nearly every other

        10       bill that has any kind of real impact on open

        11       government and open meetings.

        12                  We have not had a particularly, I

        13       would guess, ambitious agenda in the spirit of

        14       sunshine or open government.  In fact, it

        15       seems to be somewhat limited.  So we had a

        16       committee meeting of Investigations on Monday.

        17       That bill certainly could have been on that

        18       committee agenda.

        19                  And it just seems to me a little

        20       bit ironic that we would have an open meetings

        21       violation -- or not a violation, but in the

        22       spirit of this Sunshine Week, so sort of

        23       cavalierly dealt with as it relates to our

        24       committee process here.

        25                  And so for those reasons,



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         1       Mr. President, you know, I express my concerns

         2       that we maybe ought to be a little bit more

         3       consistent with regard to our actions.

         4                  Thank you very much.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         6       you, Senator Winner.

         7                  Senator Ranzenhofer.

         8                  SENATOR RANZENHOFER:    A couple of

         9       questions for the sponsor.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        11       Senator Oppenheimer, do you yield to Senator

        12       Ranzenhofer?

        13                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Sure.

        14                  SENATOR RANZENHOFER:    Thank you.

        15       Through you, Mr. Chairman.  You keep on saying

        16       that this is the same bill that we had last

        17       year, but in your memo you say that this is a

        18       new bill.  So I'm a little unclear.  Is this a

        19       new bill, as you indicate here, or is this not

        20       a new bill?

        21                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Through

        22       you, Mr. President.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        24       Senator Oppenheimer.

        25                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    This is a



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         1       new bill because we took out that part that

         2       had a fine for people who violated the law.

         3                  So this is indeed a new bill, but

         4       it's substantially identical except we have

         5       taken out that one provision that the

         6       Governor -- and myself, actually; I think it

         7       was a proper thing to take out.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         9       Senator Ranzenhofer.

        10                  SENATOR RANZENHOFER:    Through

        11       you, Mr. Chairman.  Is another new part of the

        12       bill the fact that this training session is

        13       now required, or was that in last year's bill?

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Do you

        15       continue to yield, Senator Oppenheimer?

        16                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Yes.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You

        18       may answer.

        19                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Thank you,

        20       Mr. President.

        21                  Senator, what we did was put in

        22       something that we felt was much less onerous

        23       than a fine, and that would be a training

        24       session.  Because we felt the fine was

        25       burdensome and would make it difficult for us



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         1       to attract people to run for office.  So in

         2       place of that, we put in the training session.

         3       Which we hope, when the training session is

         4       completed, we will never have to face that

         5       particular board again.

         6                  SENATOR RANZENHOFER:    A couple

         7       more questions, Mr. Chairman, if the sponsor

         8       will continue to yield.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        10       Senator Oppenheimer, do you continue to yield

        11       to Senator Ranzenhofer?

        12                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Yes.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You

        14       may proceed.

        15                  SENATOR RANZENHOFER:    In the

        16       bill, the fiscal impact, there's nothing

        17       there.  How much is this going to cost

        18       municipalities?

        19                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Pardon me,

        20       through you.  Did you say how much will it

        21       cost?

        22                  SENATOR RANZENHOFER:    Cost

        23       municipalities for these training programs for

        24       people that violate.

        25                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    The



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         1       training program is provided by the state.

         2                  The people who enforce the Freedom

         3       of Information Laws, they exist in our

         4       community, and they are there, particularly

         5       Robert Freeman, to assist us with any training

         6       that has to be done.

         7                  SENATOR RANZENHOFER:    And who

         8       pays for that?

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        10       Senator Ranzenhofer --

        11                  SENATOR RANZENHOFER:    I'm sorry.

        12       Through you, Mr. Chairman, will Senator

        13       Oppenheimer continue to yield.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        15       Senator Oppenheimer, will you continue to

        16       yield to Senator Ranzenhofer?

        17                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Yes.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You

        19       may proceed.

        20                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Thank you,

        21       Mr. President.

        22                  SENATOR RANZENHOFER:    Yes, who

        23       pays for that?

        24                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    I'm sorry.

        25       As I said, it is funded by the Department of



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         1       State.  It is there for each of us to use as

         2       we choose to use it in our districts.

         3                  So you will find it available for

         4       any freedom of information issue that you may

         5       have within your Senate district.  And it

         6       would be available in place of the fine for

         7       this particular case.

         8                  SENATOR RANZENHOFER:    Okay, thank

         9       you.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        11       you, Senator Ranzenhofer.

        12                  Are there any other Senators

        13       wishing to be heard?

        14                  Hearing none, the debate is closed.

        15       The Secretary will please ring the bells.

        16                  The Secretary will read the last

        17       section.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        19       act shall take effect on the 60th day.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        21       the roll.

        22                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        24       Announce the results.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to



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         1       Calendar Number 260:  Ayes, 60.  Nays, 0.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         3       bill is passed.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         5       257, by Senator Klein, Senate Print 6212A, an

         6       act to amend the Real Property Tax Law and the

         7       Tax Law.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         9       Senator Libous.

        10                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you,

        11       Mr. President.

        12                  I believe we have two amendments at

        13       the desk, the first one by Senator Saland and

        14       Senator Little.  And I would ask that you call

        15       upon Senator Saland and Senator Little in that

        16       order.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        18       Senator Saland.

        19                  SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you,

        20       Mr. President.

        21                  As Senator Libous pointed out,

        22       we've offered up the amendment, we would waive

        23       its reading and ask for the opportunity to

        24       explain the amendment.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:



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         1       Senator Saland, your amendment is here at the

         2       desk.  Without objection, the reading is

         3       waived and you may speak on the amendment.

         4                  SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you,

         5       Mr. President.

         6                  Mr. President, the amendment that

         7       we are proposing to the bill that is on the

         8       calendar, Senator Klein's bill, is an

         9       amendment which deals substantially with the

        10       very same items that you will find in Senator

        11       Klein's bill, and in fact even more

        12       expansively goes into some other areas that

        13       relate to real property tax relief.

        14                  And with your permission, I will

        15       briefly describe the major components, yield

        16       to my colleague Senator Little, who will go on

        17       at greater length with respect to one portion,

        18       and then perhaps to my colleague Senator

        19       LaValle, if he's so inclined, on yet another

        20       part.

        21                  This bill offers up both a real

        22       property tax rebate mechanism to reinstate the

        23       tax rebates that had been initiated several

        24       years ago.  At the time of their initiation,

        25       it was an issue which I was very keenly



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         1       involved in and attempted to advance.

         2       Unfortunately, we've seen that these tax

         3       rebate checks have been stricken from this

         4       year's budget, last year's budget.  And we

         5       would hope to be able to restore them and

         6       restore them for people with incomes of

         7       $250,000 and below.

         8                  It would afford real property

         9       taxpayers the option of having the greater of

        10       their tax rebate check or the result of what

        11       they would be entitled to under the circuit

        12       breaker.  The circuit breaker -- and again,

        13       I'm going to defer to Senator Little -- also

        14       has a $250,000 household adjusted gross income

        15       cap on it.

        16                  We also propose, in this amendment,

        17       a senior citizen property tax freeze, optional

        18       on behalf of local governments, for those

        19       70 years or over, and very, very importantly,

        20       a property tax levy cap.  And that property

        21       tax levy cap would be 120 percent of the CPI,

        22       or 4 percent, whichever is less -- numbers

        23       that we're all familiar with, having seen them

        24       in one form or another with regard to these

        25       issues over quite a period of time.



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         1                  It would provide, as does Senator

         2       Klein's bill, I believe, for being able to

         3       bank any unused tax levy, provide for an

         4       underride, provide for a petition to override

         5       a levy limit.

         6                  In addition, we provide for mandate

         7       relief -- not mandate deferral, mandate

         8       relief, absolute and total mandate relief.

         9       And we say that no unfunded mandate shall be

        10       imposed upon another level of local

        11       government, be it a municipality or a school

        12       district.  And we believe in these difficult,

        13       difficult times that should be an absolute

        14       ban.

        15                  We do recognize that there are

        16       times, whether it be by way of court order,

        17       whether it be by way of some federal action

        18       and several other potential exceptions -- home

        19       rule request -- in which a mandate may in fact

        20       wind up being imposed, but not by any action

        21       of this Legislature or by any direct action of

        22       any regulatory authority.

        23                  We look to save money through

        24       making greater use of regional cost-savers --

        25       regional transportation, regional collective



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         1       bargaining negotiations.  And we also provide

         2       a means by which school districts can reach

         3       reserve funds that are currently unreachable,

         4       monies that have accumulated with regard

         5       certain anticipated employee benefits.  I

         6       believe the Comptroller has ruled that the

         7       accumulation of these reserve funds was not an

         8       appropriate means for particularly our school

         9       districts to engage in, and these monies could

        10       be released to afford real property tax

        11       relief.

        12                  This is a measure whose time not

        13       only has come, it is desperately overdue.

        14       It's something that we introduced as

        15       legislation as our Republican Homeowners

        16       Protection Act.

        17                  And I will yield to Senator Little,

        18       who certainly has been instrumental in really

        19       initiating the entire focus on the

        20       circuit-breaker approach and is perhaps one of

        21       the foremost experts in either house on the

        22       subject of the circuit breaker.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        24       you, Senator Saland.

        25                  Senator Little.



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         1                  SENATOR LITTLE:    Thank you,

         2       Mr. President.  And thank you, Senator Saland.

         3                  I'd also like to begin by thanking

         4       Senator Klein for putting forth this bill

         5       today, a circuit breaker.  And also Senator

         6       Liz Krueger, who has another version of a

         7       circuit-breaker bill that I believe I

         8       cosponsor with her, or I am on that bill.

         9                  A circuit breaker is an important

        10       bill to help with property taxes.  The thing

        11       about property taxes is that property taxes

        12       are based on the value of your property, the

        13       value of your home, not on your ability to

        14       pay.  And a circuit breaker will help you when

        15       those property taxes reach a certain

        16       percentage of your income, when you more or

        17       less go into overload, similar to an electric

        18       circuit, and you can no longer do it.

        19                  We've all had people call us and

        20       come to us whose property taxes are sometimes

        21       20, 25 percent of their income.  And who do

        22       they affect the most?  They affect people who

        23       have lived in their home a long time, who have

        24       seen the value of their home rise, who have

        25       not seen their income change -- or their



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         1       income, because they are retired, is actually

         2       less -- and they are being forced to move out

         3       of their home.

         4                  I became interested in a

         5       circuit-breaker bill when taxpayer groups came

         6       to me, many groups within the North Country,

         7       especially because we're in a resort area and

         8       people who have had a home on a lakeside

         9       property and have retired to that home have

        10       found that the value has quadrupled, a

        11       tremendous increase in value, and they can no

        12       longer afford to pay the property taxes and

        13       realize that they may no longer afford to be

        14       able to live there.

        15                  They formed a group called the

        16       Omnibus Consortium.  And that is now

        17       statewide, from Essex County, Dutchess County,

        18       Cayuga County, and all the counties in the

        19       state I believe have members in this.  In

        20       their opinion, a circuit breaker is the

        21       fairest, most meaningful, most cost-effective

        22       way to provide property tax relief.

        23                  So what does our amendment do?  Our

        24       amendment adds the bill that we proposed last

        25       week or the week before, which has many of the



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         1       same proponents as Senator Klein's bill, but

         2       we believe that it is more helpful and it is

         3       simpler.  What our bill would do would be a

         4       flat 6 percent of your income, up to the

         5       $250,000 limit, and you would get a 70 percent

         6       credit on your property taxes.

         7                  So someone whose income is $350,000

         8       and their property taxes are $4200 -- which is

         9       not out of range when you think about even a

        10       $100,000 house or an $85,000 house in our

        11       areas -- our circuit breaker that we are

        12       amending this bill with would actually help

        13       that homeowner with $840, whereas Senator

        14       Klein's circuit breaker would only be $210.

        15                  When you get up to the $200,000

        16       household income -- you know, you could have a

        17       principal and a teacher.  We're certainly not

        18       out of middle-class at that range -- a

        19       two-career family, Senator Klein's bill, if

        20       their taxes were $15,000, would not help,

        21       because you'd have to have taxes over $18,000

        22       to get any help from that bill.  Our bill,

        23       being 6 percent of that and 70 percent return,

        24       would help that person with $2,100 of their

        25       $15,000.



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         1                  We have estimated our bill to cost

         2       about $1.4 billion.  We believe that through

         3       many, many cuts in spending, cuts in areas

         4       where we control our spending, institute a

         5       spending cap for the state, that we would be

         6       able to pay for this.

         7                  And I would just encourage all of

         8       you this is, I think, a more helpful bill an

         9       simpler bill to understand.  But in all

        10       honesty, I'm just really pleased that we are

        11       here today talking about a circuit-breaker

        12       bill to help the taxpayers of New York State

        13       before they're all gone.

        14                  Thank you.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        16       you, Senator Little.

        17                  Senator LaValle.

        18                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Thank you,

        19       Mr. President.

        20                  Our conference, the Republican

        21       conference, has for years made real property

        22       taxes and the reduction of real property taxes

        23       its number-one priority.  Example, the STAR

        24       program and the enhanced STAR program was the

        25       basis, the beginning over a number of years,



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         1       of addressing the real property tax problem.

         2                  That was followed by the STAR

         3       rebate check that was an important component.

         4       And I think that people last year, almost in a

         5       knee-jerk way, went to their mailboxes on a

         6       daily basis in October and found that there

         7       was no rebate check.

         8                  The proposal that is being put

         9       forth here today is one that recognizes the

        10       differences in the state in what people pay in

        11       real property taxes and the income levels that

        12       they have.  It allows people basically some

        13       choices.  And the amendment was put together

        14       in a way that allows for a rebate check, if

        15       that works out in the best way, or the circuit

        16       breaker.

        17                  The circuit breaker has a long

        18       history.  In 1977, I sponsored what is today

        19       in law.  And one of the problems that we've

        20       had is to try and explain -- and I think

        21       Senator Little did a good job explaining, you

        22       know, the circuit breaker and the triggers.

        23                  In the current law, there are

        24       number of income levels and a number of

        25       triggers -- 3 percent to 7, 8 percent.



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         1       Senator Klein follows that suit in different

         2       income levels, using different triggers.

         3                  Our proposal really tries to

         4       simplify what is very, very difficult and

         5       simplifies it as one trigger, 6 percent, you

         6       get a check at the end, 70 percent of the

         7       overage.  That simple.  Not complicated.

         8                  The third component is there are a

         9       lot of senior citizens who, as they get older

        10       and find that Social Security checks have been

        11       frozen, they've lost money in their 401(k),

        12       they start to worry whether they can stay in

        13       their house because of the property tax.  And

        14       so here we allow seniors 70 or older to be

        15       able to have a cap, be able to breathe easy,

        16       see some light at the end of the tunnel, and

        17       go on with their life.

        18                  As everyone here knows, when we

        19       went to the STAR program we were very, very

        20       careful to make sure that we didn't switch

        21       burdens from one class of taxpayer to another.

        22       And so in our proposal we reimbursed the

        23       school district dollar for dollar for what is

        24       being taken off the tax rolls in terms of an

        25       exemption.



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         1                  I think it was mentioned the

         2       property tax cap that passed this house.

         3       Senator Klein's bill doesn't exactly replicate

         4       the measure that we passed in this house in

         5       2008.  And there are a number of mandate

         6       relief proposals -- a ban, a ban on mandates

         7       for not only school districts but for

         8       municipalities.

         9                  There are other things that our

        10       conference and individuals -- Senator Bonacic,

        11       I could go around -- other aspects of the real

        12       property tax problem.  A cap is very

        13       important.  Choice is very important in trying

        14       to save the maximum amount of dollars for each

        15       taxpayer.

        16                  Senator Klein's bill also includes,

        17       as does the current law, renters.  And of

        18       course that item, I mean, people who rent are

        19       very deserving of some sort of help.  It will

        20       be interesting to see the fiscal impact just

        21       from that one component.

        22                  So I think our amendment has both

        23       history, passage in this house, and I think

        24       it's a very thoughtful approach to dealing

        25       with a very complex problem.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         2       you, Senator LaValle.

         3                  Are there any other Senators

         4       wishing to be heard?

         5                  Hearing none, the question is on

         6       the motion to amend Calendar Number 257.

         7       Those Senators voting in support of the

         8       nonsponsor amendment please signify by raising

         9       your hands.

        10                  Announce the results.

        11                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 29.  Nays,

        12       31.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        14       nonsponsor amendment fails.

        15                  Senator Libous.

        16                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you,

        17       Mr. President.

        18                  I believe we have another amendment

        19       at the desk, by Senator LaValle.  And I ask

        20       that the title be read and you call on

        21       Senator LaValle, please.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        23       Senator LaValle, your amendment is here at the

        24       desk.  Without objection, the reading is

        25       waived and you may speak on the amendment.



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         1                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Thank you very

         2       much, Mr. President.

         3                  I believe the body just heard me

         4       speak about some of the differences and some

         5       of the components in the measure that we

         6       offered up.  Senator Klein certainly has

         7       components in his bill, a circuit breaker --

         8       while we can disagree that it doesn't go far

         9       enough, the rebate check doesn't go far

        10       enough, the one thing he doesn't have in his

        11       bill that is critically important is to give

        12       some peace of mind to those seniors 70 or

        13       older who just find it intolerable to be able

        14       to live in their homes.  And we certainly want

        15       to keep them in New York, keep them close to

        16       their grandchildren.

        17                  So this bill is the component that

        18       I explained before.  It caps the property tax,

        19       gives the senior that option, and also

        20       replaces any of the exemption, dollar for

        21       dollar, to the local school district.  This is

        22       critically important and would be a critically

        23       important addition to the Klein bill.

        24                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank



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         1       you, Senator LaValle.

         2                  Are there any other Senators

         3       wishing to be heard?

         4                  The question is on the second

         5       nonsponsor motion to amend Calendar Number

         6       257.  All those Senators voting in support of

         7       the nonsponsor amendment please signify by

         8       raising your hands.

         9                  Announce the results.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 29.  Nays,

        11       31.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        13       motion fails.

        14                  Senator Klein.

        15                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, I

        16       ask that the roll be opened.  Senator

        17       DeFrancisco has a very important commitment

        18       that he has to get to, and allow him to vote.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        20       Senator DeFrancisco.

        21                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I would

        22       like to vote aye on the main bill.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    First

        24       of all, the Secretary will open the roll call

        25       on Calendar Number 257.



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         1                  Read the last section.

         2                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 12.  This

         3       act shall take effect immediately.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

         5       the roll.

         6                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         8       Senator DeFrancisco.

         9                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Aye.

        10                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    That was with

        11       unanimous consent, Mr. President.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    That

        13       was with unanimous consent.  Thank you very

        14       much, Senator Libous.

        15                  The roll call is now withdrawn, and

        16       we are back on the bill.

        17                  Senator Klein.

        18                  SENATOR KLEIN:    On the bill,

        19       Mr. President.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        21       Senator Klein, on the bill.

        22                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Thank you,

        23       Mr. President.  On the bill.

        24                  I've spent some time with many of

        25       my colleagues on the issue of property tax



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         1       relief for New Yorkers.  I know I've spoken to

         2       probably everyone here, even members of the

         3       minority conference, on what we need to do to

         4       provide property tax relief.

         5                  It's very, very clear that the

         6       voters of New York State are angry, and

         7       rightfully so.  Their property tax keeps going

         8       up, but their income isn't going up at nearly

         9       the same pace.

        10                  So one of the things I tried to do

        11       is craft a property tax relief plan which I

        12       think allows us to pay for it -- because it's

        13       almost the exact number of the former rebate

        14       check that was taken out of last year's

        15       budget -- but at the same time I believe

        16       really provides a comprehensive plan for

        17       New Yorkers to save on property taxes.

        18                  First of all, I think one of the

        19       most important concepts of any property tax

        20       plan is that if you indeed have a circuit

        21       breaker, you must have a cap as well.  They

        22       work well with one another.  I think you can't

        23       just have a cap, you can't just have a circuit

        24       breaker.

        25                  One of the things that I've seen



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         1       over the years is the reason why the STAR

         2       exemption program has kind of grown out of

         3       control is because taxpayer dollars,

         4       rightfully so, are going into a pot of money

         5       to give property tax relief.

         6                  So if we constantly raise taxes and

         7       taxes increase on the local and school

         8       district level, we constantly have to put

         9       money into it to pay for it.  So that's why

        10       having the 4 percent cap in my legislation --

        11       which would exclude capital costs -- I think

        12       will go a long way towards making sure that

        13       school districts live within their means.

        14                  You know, we're asking New Yorkers

        15       each and every day, especially now, during

        16       tough economic times, to balance their

        17       checkbooks, to live within their means, to do

        18       more with less.  I do not think it is too much

        19       to ask our local school districts to do the

        20       same.

        21                  They have to, I think, learn to

        22       live within their means.  And I think the way

        23       we're going to finally lower property taxes

        24       and make property taxes drop like a rock in

        25       New York State is a very, very important step



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         1       of actually having a cap in place.

         2                  Next is the circuit breaker.  The

         3       circuit breaker would apply to anyone who

         4       earns under $250,000 a year, their gross

         5       income, and it's broken into various brackets:

         6       $120,000 or less, $120,000 to $175,000, and

         7       finally $175,000 to $250,000.  The threshold

         8       percentages of property taxes are 7, 8 and

         9       9 percent.  The circuit breaker tax credit is

        10       30 percent.

        11                  The reason why I had the bill at

        12       30 percent, as compared to I know Senator

        13       Little, who's worked on this issue for so many

        14       years, is a basic answer, cost.  If we did the

        15       legislation that was proposed by the minority

        16       today in the form of their amendment, that

        17       circuit breaker would cost well over

        18       $4 billion, including returning the STAR

        19       rebate check to everyone.  I'd love to say we

        20       can do it during these fiscal times, but we

        21       just can't.

        22                  So I think the proposal at hand

        23       today is taking that $1.5 billion -- well, I

        24       think the price tag here is closer to my

        25       circuit breaker of 1.2 -- and actually, I



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         1       think, providing meaningful property tax

         2       relief.

         3                  I believe a circuit breaker is a

         4       much fairer and progressive means of helping

         5       people, because we're finally going to take

         6       into account the percentage of someone's

         7       income that they pay in property taxes.  The

         8       way we did it in the past, excluding the

         9       exemption, is to actually just give someone a

        10       check whether they needed that check or not.

        11       Our only proviso was making sure that they

        12       earned under $250,000.

        13                  I believe that the people who truly

        14       need that check, regardless of whether or not

        15       they qualify for a circuit breaker, are senior

        16       citizens.  So under my plan, we're going to

        17       have a circuit breaker in place but there

        18       won't be any double dipping.  If a senior

        19       citizen actually qualifies for a circuit

        20       breaker, they don't get a check.  If they

        21       don't qualify for a circuit breaker, they get

        22       the check.  Everyone else has to actually fit

        23       into the categories that I laid out to be

        24       eligible for the circuit breaker.

        25                  I think that's going to be a plan



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         1       that's going to go a long way towards making

         2       sure that we finally not only have property

         3       tax relief but a fair property tax relief

         4       system.

         5                  I just want to get back quickly to

         6       the cap.  As I said, the way --

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Excuse

         8       me, Senator Klein.

         9                  Senator Flanagan, why do you rise?

        10                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Mr. President,

        11       would Senator Klein yield?

        12                  SENATOR KLEIN:    I actually will

        13       yield.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        15       Senator Klein will yield, Senator Flanagan.

        16                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Senator Klein,

        17       I'm listening very carefully.  I have a couple

        18       of basic questions.  And I know you're coming

        19       back to the property tax cap.  And you made

        20       comments about how school districts have to

        21       live within their means.

        22                  And I don't doubt your sincerity or

        23       your efforts in this regard, but can you

        24       explain to me and to our colleagues, if it is

        25       such a good idea for school districts, why did



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         1       you not include a spending cap at the state

         2       level in this bill?

         3                  SENATOR KLEIN:    I think the way

         4       that we're going to do something about

         5       property taxes right now, for the voters of

         6       New York State and our constituents, is by

         7       having a property tax cap.  I know the

         8       Governor floated a plan that if we had a

         9       spending cap, we may be able to pay for

        10       property tax relief next year in the form of a

        11       circuit breaker.

        12                  I do not believe that the taxpayers

        13       of New York State can wait another year.  I

        14       think we need property tax relief now.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        16       Senator Flanagan.

        17                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Would Senator

        18       Klein continue to yield.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Do you

        20       continue to yield, Senator Klein?

        21                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes,

        22       Mr. President, I'll continue to yield.

        23                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Going back to

        24       the same point, so I'm gathering that you

        25       don't support the spending cap at the state



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         1       level at all, or just for this year?

         2                  SENATOR KLEIN:    I don't support

         3       the spending cap as a means to get tax relief

         4       this year.

         5                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Mr. President,

         6       would Senator Klein continue to yield.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         8       Senator Klein, will you continue to yield?

         9                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes,

        10       Mr. President.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You

        12       may proceed, Senator Flanagan.

        13                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    I'm looking at

        14       the bill and the memo -- and I appreciate your

        15       indulgence.  In looking at the bill and the

        16       memo, I think I read correctly, you said the

        17       fiscal complications are to be determined.

        18                  Now, you offered an assessment of

        19       the amendment which we just put forward which

        20       is vastly different in terms of its quantity

        21       of money.  You're saying it's at least

        22       $4 billion, and yet this is $1.2 billion.

        23                  Can you explain how you get to the

        24       $1.2 billion and -- it is a two-part question,

        25       Mr. President -- how you pay for it?  Because



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         1       I don't see anything in here.  I think there

         2       may have been some press information as to how

         3       it would get paid for.

         4                  But, for example, on the renters

         5       piece, how much of that $1.2 billion is the

         6       15 percent credit for renters?  Because I

         7       would assume that there has been some

         8       quantification of just how many units we'd be

         9       talking about.  So if you could, the 1.2, how

        10       that comes together, and then how you pay for

        11       it.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        13       Senator Klein.

        14                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Well, first of

        15       all, the first part of your question was I

        16       guess the cost.  The reason why the cost was

        17       higher under the minority plan is because you

        18       had your circuit-breaker tax credit at

        19       70 percent of overage.  I lowered mine to 30,

        20       which substantially saved a lot of money as

        21       far as the cost of the circuit breaker.

        22                  I'm not sure, but I also put in a

        23       three-year residency requirement.  I'm not

        24       sure if that was in your amendment as well.

        25                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    That was in



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         1       the amendment.

         2                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Okay.  That also

         3       lowered the cost substantially.

         4                  And in answer to your question as

         5       far as renters, they would account for

         6       $150 million under my circuit-breaker plan.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Senat

         8       or Flanagan.  And if you want me to get to the

         9       rest of how we.

        10                  SENATOR KLEIN:    And I will -- if

        11       you want me to get to the rest of how we pay

        12       for it, I'll --

        13                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes, please.

        14                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Okay.  The next

        15       portion, to answer your question on how we pay

        16       for it.  One of the things that I think was

        17       very important, one of the things that I

        18       thought was very important we do this today,

        19       at the start of our conference committees and

        20       our budget process, is to sort of state out a

        21       tax savings plan, a property tax plan for

        22       New Yorkers that will be part of the budget.

        23                  And one of the things that we need

        24       to make sure to do is to come up with

        25       $1.5 billion to pay for such a plan.  I don't



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         1       want to get into, you know, a budget

         2       negotiation now, but I will mention just a

         3       couple of things which I think would be able

         4       to be used to pay for the circuit breaker that

         5       we have before us today.

         6                  First is cigarette tax money.

         7       There's no secret, I don't think, to anyone in

         8       this chamber, I've been someone that's been

         9       advocating of collecting the taxes on

        10       uncollected cigarettes.  I wrote the law in

        11       2000 which bans the sale of cigarettes over

        12       the Internet, with Senator Chuck Fuschillo as

        13       the sponsor in this house.  And one of the

        14       things that we found is unfortunately it's not

        15       being enforced.

        16                  Just today -- I think it was

        17       actually last night -- that the United States

        18       Congress passed a bill, which the Senate

        19       already passed, which now would ban the

        20       United States Postal Service from delivering

        21       cigarettes.

        22                  I personally believe we can now

        23       eliminate Internet sales.  Which according to

        24       Crain's, who did an editorial -- and I'll be

        25       happy to present that to you -- last week, it



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         1       was rather comprehensive, and they put a price

         2       tag on how much we can generate in additional

         3       revenue -- and this is additional revenue, not

         4       a one-shot, but year after year up to a

         5       billion dollars.  That's something that I

         6       think we have to take very, very seriously, as

         7       well as the issue of bootleg cigarettes.

         8                  So I think what happened in

         9       Congress yesterday is going to go a long way

        10       towards making sure that we finally get

        11       additional revenue.  And I can't think of any

        12       better way to get this additional revenue than

        13       to give it back to homeowners, give it back to

        14       renters in the form of real relief through a

        15       circuit breaker.

        16                  Next is yesterday, a bill that I've

        17       introduced and passed the Senate last year --

        18       which was practically voted on unanimously --

        19       would expand electronic table games to racinos

        20       around the state as well as the expansion of

        21       hours.  Our finance staff has put a price tag

        22       on that as far as additional revenue.  And

        23       again, this is not a one-shot, it's recurring

        24       revenue, anywhere from $100 million to

        25       $150 million a year in additional revenue



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         1       earmarked specifically for education.  So

         2       that's another area.

         3                  The other area members of --

         4                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Mr. President,

         5       excuse me.  Senator Klein, if you would suffer

         6       an interruption.

         7                  SENATOR KLEIN:    I'm just getting

         8       to my third area.

         9                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    You're being

        10       very clear, but I think somewhat inconsistent.

        11       Because you just mentioned $150 million based

        12       on --

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        14       Senator Flanagan, are you asking him an

        15       additional question?

        16                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Yes, I am.

        17                  SENATOR KLEIN:    I'd be happy a

        18       yield, Mr. President.

        19                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Clarification,

        20       I would suggest.

        21                  You just mentioned $100 million to

        22       $150 million for the bill for yesterday, and

        23       you said it's going to go right to education.

        24       So this is part of my concern in fleshing some

        25       of these things out.  Are we using all these



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         1       revenue sources to buy back a wide variety of

         2       things?  If it goes for education, it can't go

         3       for this bill.

         4                  SENATOR KLEIN:    I understand.

         5       That's why I was very reluctant to get into a

         6       full-blown budget debate.  And that's why I

         7       thought it was important to get this bill

         8       passed today to sort of stake out our claim,

         9       and hopefully all of our claims, to make sure

        10       we have property tax relief.

        11                  Again, if we have additional

        12       revenue for education which we didn't have a

        13       year ago, that way we could figure out a way

        14       to sort of do more with less and have extra

        15       money for property tax relief.  That's how our

        16       budget works.

        17                  I think the most important thing

        18       that we need to get across today is that we

        19       want to make sure that when we actually pass a

        20       budget -- on April 1st, hopefully -- we will

        21       have a property tax plan in place and the

        22       money to pay for it.

        23                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Mr. President,

        24       would Senator Klein yield for one last

        25       question?



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Would

         2       you yield for one last question, Senator

         3       Klein?

         4                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Can I get to the

         5       third piece?

         6                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Absolutely.

         7                  SENATOR KLEIN:    The third part of

         8       the plan -- and again, I know members on both

         9       sides of the aisle are on a task force that

        10       Senator Sampson appointed me to on government

        11       efficiency.  And one of the things that we

        12       found out very, very quickly is that the State

        13       of New York is spending an awful lot of money

        14       in overtime.  Last year state agencies spent

        15       upwards of $400 million in overtime.

        16                  Again, I want to make sure that

        17       hardworking public employees continue to have

        18       their job, they work very hard to make sure we

        19       have services here in the State of New York.

        20       But I think we really have to take a good hard

        21       look.  And I'm sure we can save a tremendous

        22       amount of money by reducing overtime, cutting

        23       it in half, and making sure we distinguish

        24       between what I would consider mandatory

        25       overtime versus discretionary overtime.



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         1                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Thank you.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    He's

         3       already yielded for the last question,

         4       Senator.

         5                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    And I'm not

         6       splitting hairs, but you mentioned in the

         7       beginning when you first spoke that this would

         8       cost $1.2 billion.  Several minutes ago you

         9       just used the number $1.5 billion to pay for

        10       the plan.

        11                  So if we're going to talk about

        12       numbers -- and let me parenthetically add I

        13       think it's fabulous that we're having this

        14       discussion.  And this may be the semblance of

        15       a budget debate because, frankly, absent this,

        16       there's not a darn thing going on relative to

        17       the budget.  So your bringing this out may

        18       engender some real discussion on the budget.

        19       I certainly hope so.

        20                  But is it $1.5 billion, or is it

        21       1.2?

        22                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Under my plan, it

        23       was 1.2.  I guess I should have expressed

        24       myself a little more clearly.  What I was

        25       saying is we're taking the money that was



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         1       previously used for the STAR rebate check and

         2       applying it to a circuit breaker.  And

         3       according to our estimates, we came in even

         4       lower than the $1.5 billion that was

         5       previously spent.

         6                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Thank you,

         7       Senator Klein.  Thank you, Mr. President.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         9       you, Senator Flanagan.

        10                  Senator Saland.

        11                  SENATOR SALAND:    Will Senator

        12       Klein yield, Mr. President?

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Do you

        14       yield for a question from Senator Saland?

        15                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes,

        16       Mr. President.

        17                  SENATOR SALAND:    Mr. President, I

        18       may have more than one question, but I'll

        19       obviously go through the chair.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Fine.

        21                  SENATOR SALAND:    Senator Klein,

        22       I'd like to, if I could, call your attention

        23       to page 3 of your bill, beginning at line 26

        24       and running down through line 36.  And I

        25       believe that's the language with regard to



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         1       which you calculate your rebate under your

         2       construct.  Am I correct?

         3                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes.

         4                  SENATOR SALAND:    Could you

         5       explain to me what that particular paragraph

         6       says?  Because I can't quite comprehend how it

         7       gets to where you say it gets.

         8                  SENATOR KLEIN:    What page?  I'm

         9       sorry, Senator Saland, page 3 --

        10                  SENATOR SALAND:    Page 3, lines 26

        11       through 36.  Yes, thank you.

        12                  SENATOR KLEIN:    I'm not

        13       following.  The enhanced STAR exemption shall

        14       be determined --

        15                  SENATOR SALAND:    Yes.  Yes.  Yes.

        16                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Basically as far

        17       as the exemption program.  We're not making

        18       any changes to the exemption program at all.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        20       Senator Saland.

        21                  SENATOR SALAND:    I -- if the

        22       Senator would continue to yield.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Would

        24       you continue to yield, Senator Klein?

        25                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes.



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         1                  SENATOR SALAND:    Your bill, as I

         2       understand it, provides for a 30 percent

         3       enhanced STAR rebate for seniors?

         4                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Thirty percent to

         5       circuit breaker.  And the enhanced rebate

         6       percentage is 30 percent as well.

         7                  SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         9       Senator Saland.

        10                  SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you,

        11       Mr. President.  I'm looking at this bill and

        12       desperately looking for something there that

        13       tells me that it's 30 percent.  Because what I

        14       see is "such rebate base shall be computed by

        15       determining the exempt amount established for

        16       the segment for purposes of enhanced STAR

        17       exemption for the 2011 year.  Such rebate

        18       basis shall be computed by multiplying that

        19       amount by the school district's tax rate

        20       applicable within that segment of the year as

        21       reported by the school districts and then

        22       multiplying the product."

        23                  Well, multiplying the product by

        24       what?  It doesn't tell me what you're

        25       multiplying it by.  So I don't know how you



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         1       get there.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         3       Senator Klein.

         4                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Senator Saland,

         5       I'm sorry, I'm just not understanding what

         6       your question is.

         7                  SENATOR SALAND:    My question is

         8       if the essence of how you get to the 30,000 --

         9       unless there's another paragraph I should be

        10       looking at -- if the essence of how you get to

        11       the 30,000 is contained in this paragraph,

        12       there's nothing in here other than the

        13       reference that I'm looking at, particularly

        14       lines 33 through 36, that says you're going to

        15       multiply something by the product.

        16                  What are you multiplying it by?

        17       Are you multiplying it by a fraction?  Are you

        18       multiplying by 2, by 3, by 7, by a percentage?

        19       I mean, how is it that we get there?

        20                  SENATOR KLEIN:    It's my

        21       understanding that we're not changing anything

        22       to do with the enhanced STAR exemption.  I

        23       think the reason why we put it back is because

        24       when the rebate check was taken out of last

        25       year's budget, we had to put the language back



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         1       in.

         2                  SENATOR SALAND:    I would --

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         4       Senator Saland, do you have an additional

         5       question?

         6                  SENATOR SALAND:    I do.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         8       Senator Klein?

         9                  SENATOR SALAND:    And I would

        10       merely make a comment prior to my additional

        11       question, with your permission.  I would

        12       respectfully request that perhaps your staff

        13       take a look at that section --

        14                  SENATOR KLEIN:    I will, Senator.

        15                  SENATOR SALAND:    -- because there

        16       seems to be something lacking.  We can't get

        17       to a number without going through a

        18       calculation, and you don't tell us here what

        19       that calculation is.

        20                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Thank you,

        21       Senator Saland.  I will take a look at that.

        22                  SENATOR SALAND:    Now, both the --

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Do you

        24       continue to yield, Senator Klein, to Senator

        25       Saland?



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         1                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes,

         2       Mr. President, I continue to yield.

         3                  SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you,

         4       Mr. President.  Thank you, Senator Klein.

         5                  Both the measure which we

         6       introduced in the form of an amendment and

         7       have introduced in the form of a bill and the

         8       bill before us provide for a cap on the tax

         9       levy.  Can you tell me whether your bill also

        10       provides for a cap on spending and whether or

        11       not it also provides for the continuation of a

        12       contingency budget?

        13                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Just the tax

        14       levy, Senator Saland.

        15                  SENATOR SALAND:    Well, I looked

        16       through your bill -- and granted, it was last

        17       night and it was difficult for me to do it

        18       comprehensively.  But I didn't find any

        19       repealer on a spending vote, and I didn't find

        20       any repealer on a contingency budget vote.

        21                  And we all understand that the cap

        22       on the tax levy is basically what's essential

        23       in order to enable the -- to define the

        24       confines within which a school district will

        25       have to live.  So I would submit to you --



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         1                  SENATOR KLEIN:    I guess, to help

         2       you out, I know the tax cap is the identical

         3       tax cap to the tax cap that we passed in this

         4       house several years ago.

         5                  SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, but I

         6       believe -- if the Senator will continue to

         7       respond --

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         9       Senator Klein, do you continue to yield?

        10                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes,

        11       Mr. President, I'll continue to yield.

        12                  SENATOR SALAND:    I believe that

        13       our version clearly has a repealer for both

        14       the spending vote, the vote on spending, and

        15       the contingency budget, in recognition of the

        16       fact that the tax levy is going to basically

        17       establish what that school district and school

        18       board has to deal with.

        19                  Senator Flanagan, in his questions,

        20       if you'll continue to yield --

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Do you

        22       continue to yield, Senator Klein?

        23                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes,

        24       Mr. President.

        25                  SENATOR SALAND:    -- raised a



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         1       question with regard to renters.  And you said

         2       that the amount was some $150 million that you

         3       were allocating to that portion.

         4                  Do we have an idea of, first,

         5       perhaps through census data, how many renters

         6       there are in New York State versus how many

         7       residential homeowners there may be and what

         8       percentage of those renters would be affected

         9       by your legislation?

        10                  SENATOR KLEIN:    In answer to your

        11       question, I don't have the specifics, but I do

        12       have some breakdowns which I'll be happy to

        13       provide of district by district.

        14                  And it's clear, just looking and

        15       reviewing the data, that districts that

        16       overwhelmingly have large amounts of

        17       homeowners as opposed to renters benefit much

        18       more from the circuit breaker.  And their

        19       districts actually, you know, receive a lot

        20       more money for the circuit breaker.

        21                  The homeowners, according to the

        22       circuit breaker -- and I'll break it down --

        23       would be about $900 million, thereabouts.  As

        24       compared to the renters, as I said, was

        25       $150 million.



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         1                  SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you,

         2       Senator Klein.  I certainly will endeavor on

         3       my part to try and see if I can get access to

         4       the information upon which your comments and

         5       conclusions are based.

         6                  And in your --

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Do you

         8       have an additional question, Senator Saland?

         9                  SENATOR SALAND:    Yes, I would.

        10       Thank you.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        12       Senator Klein, do you continue to yield?

        13                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes,

        14       Mr. President, I continue to yield.

        15                  SENATOR SALAND:    In your exchange

        16       with Senator Flanagan you pointed to three

        17       sources, and the one that -- three sources of

        18       revenue for your bill.  And the one that you

        19       are apparently most heavily relying upon is

        20       the cigarette tax money.  Am I correct?

        21                  SENATOR KLEIN:    That happens to

        22       be the largest number.

        23                  SENATOR SALAND:    And has the

        24       Governor booked in his budget any money for

        25       cigarette tax collections?



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         1                  SENATOR KLEIN:    I think

         2       $250 million was allocated, I believe.  Which

         3       I always thought was too low.

         4                  And in light of the United States

         5       Senate and Congress passing the legislation I

         6       talked about before, banning the delivery of

         7       cigarettes through the United States Postal

         8       Service, I think now we can increase that

         9       number to a much larger number -- as I said,

        10       as high as a billion dollars.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        12       Senator Saland, additional question?

        13                  SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you,

        14       Mr. President.  No, if I may just go on the

        15       bill, Mr. President.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        17       Certainly.  Senator Saland, on the bill.

        18                  SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you,

        19       Senator Klein.

        20                  I don't recall the Governor booking

        21       $250 million.  I thought that the Governor had

        22       indicated that it was going to take some time

        23       to get this up and running.  And I certainly

        24       will be more than happy to stand corrected; I

        25       simply don't recall it.



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         1                  And the numbers which have been

         2       used over the course of the past several years

         3       for the cigarette tax have varied from

         4       anywhere as high as the $1 billion mentioned

         5       here today by Senator Klein to as little as a

         6       couple of hundred or $200 million.

         7                  Regardless of the action by the

         8       U.S. Congress, I suspect, whatever the number

         9       is, it is.  Whatever Indian sales are

        10       occurring and occurring, as we've attempted to

        11       distinguish in the past, to people who are not

        12       native to whatever reservation they may be

        13       being sold on or whatever Indian lands they

        14       may be sold on, that is a number which I don't

        15       think one way or the other is going to be

        16       impacted by the Congressional action, although

        17       it obviously will contribute to making

        18       collection easier.

        19                  I would like, if I might, just to

        20       make a distinction and perhaps take issue as

        21       well at the same time with the financial

        22       calculations offered by Senator Klein with

        23       respect to the cost of the bill that was

        24       introduced as our amendment to Senator Klein's

        25       bill.



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         1                  We actually placed the cost of that

         2       at some $2.6 billion.  And like Senator Klein,

         3       we find some $200 million or more in

         4       efficiencies -- I think that's the term he

         5       used -- dealing with overtime.  We certainly

         6       recognize that were we to enact a spending

         7       cap, that sometime before the conclusion of

         8       this year, were we to enact one, there would

         9       be additional revenues available.  And

        10       certainly in the outyears, there would be even

        11       more revenues available.

        12                  The one thing that was

        13       conspicuously absent in the explanation of

        14       where revenues were to be derived was any

        15       mention of the need to curb the ever-growing

        16       and seemingly growing exponentially,

        17       voraciously consuming Medicaid programs that

        18       this state has.  And our proposal would

        19       support or be supported by any number of

        20       efforts to curb some of that spending to deal

        21       with some of the optional programs.

        22                  It was recently reported, for

        23       example, that actually someone was, for

        24       nonmedical necessity, taking taxicabs from a

        25       place in my district to Albany at $300 a pop.



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         1       I mean, that's truly, truly beyond the pale.

         2       And that's a small example of one of the

         3       abuses of this system.

         4                  We would, among other things, go

         5       back to some of the eligibility requirements

         6       and screenings that had existed under prior

         7       law until avoided or repealed during the

         8       course of the past couple of years.

         9                  I mean, it's anticipated that over

        10       the next three years Medicaid is going to grow

        11       by 37 percent, some $5.3 billion more.  We're

        12       already paying a billion dollars a week to

        13       sustain that program.  And yet, you know, no

        14       effort in any way, shape or form to use some

        15       of those dollars to provide property tax

        16       relief to the very same people who at the

        17       county level are footing the bill.

        18                  Any county executive will tell you

        19       that there's absolutely nothing that is more

        20       damning, more costly, does more to damage

        21       their budgets than their Medicaid expenses.

        22                  And, you know, there are other

        23       things that could be done and we propose to do

        24       that enable us to fund this $2.6 billion

        25       proposal.  And I certainly would hope at the



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         1       very least that this exchange, which I believe

         2       is an honest exchange, will be heard over in

         3       the other house.  And that perhaps someday, if

         4       I live so long, I will get to see us engage in

         5       a conference committee that can hammer out

         6       some differences if the Assembly in fact ever

         7       takes up a similar bill.

         8                  Thank you, Mr. President.  And

         9       thank you, Senator Klein.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        11       you, Senator Saland.

        12                  Senator Craig Johnson.

        13                  SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:    Thank you

        14       very much, Mr. President.

        15                  First let me commend the deputy

        16       majority leader, Senator Jeffrey Klein.  Since

        17       I began my tenure here three short years ago,

        18       it seems that almost every policy debate that

        19       I've had with Senator Klein, both in

        20       conference and outside of the halls of the

        21       Capitol, center around what we can do for

        22       property tax relief, as both he and I

        23       represent suburban areas in New York State and

        24       both are facing the growing problem along with

        25       our constituents -- a property tax problem



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         1       that's been here not just yesterday or last

         2       week, but here for decades.  Here for decades.

         3                  And so I want to thank you first,

         4       Senator Klein, for your leadership on this

         5       issue.  I truly appreciate the vigorous debate

         6       that you have brought to this house.  And I

         7       thank the Senators who have asked him some

         8       very important questions.  I want to thank

         9       Senator Bonacic for joining us in supporting

        10       and serving as a cosponsor of this

        11       legislation.

        12                  You know, I sat and listened to

        13       Senator Saland and Senator Little, Senator

        14       LaValle, with their amendments.  And just now

        15       it would have been great maybe to have heard

        16       Senator Saland, during the actual presentation

        17       of the amendment, explain how they were going

        18       to pay for this amendment.

        19                  And I tried to digest the 96 pages,

        20       just getting it, to try and see if I could

        21       support this amendment.  And there are a lot

        22       of things in here that in principle I have

        23       supported and a lot of us have supported in

        24       the past and will continue to support in the

        25       future.  And I think what's important today



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         1       and important about this debate is to be

         2       getting those ideas out on the table to

         3       support a piece of legislation, to pass a

         4       piece of legislation, like Senator Saland

         5       said, to make sure the other house as well as

         6       the occupant on the second floor hears the

         7       Senate loud and clear.

         8                  And so I'm hopeful that we can take

         9       ideas that have come out of this Senate, along

        10       with this piece of legislation that's going to

        11       pass today -- and I'm hopeful it's going to

        12       pass -- that we can move the bill forward and

        13       go into the budget debate.  Because it's an

        14       important debate to have, not just today but

        15       over the next week or until the deadline of

        16       when the budget is due.

        17                  And it's important for our

        18       constituents to hear about the three

        19       components to this bill:  the property tax

        20       cap, the circuit breaker, and the check for

        21       our seniors.

        22                  You know, when we talk about the

        23       circuit breaker and the cap, Senator Klein is

        24       absolutely correct, they do go hand in hand.

        25       You can make the analogy they're like peanut



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         1       butter and jelly or peanut butter and

         2       chocolate.  You've got to have them both

         3       together.  They're great one-on-one, but they

         4       work a lot better together, because it keeps

         5       the spending in check.

         6                  And it's a great idea for our

         7       constituents, especially now.  Because what

         8       we've seen, not just in the real estate crisis

         9       but the economic crisis, is a number of our

        10       constituents all across the state are

        11       house-rich and cash-poor.  And that's just not

        12       limited to Suffolk County or to Ulster County

        13       or Erie County, it's also in Queens and Staten

        14       Island.  They're homeowners.  They're

        15       homeowners too.  And this bill provides real

        16       relief.  It provides relief to renters as

        17       well.

        18                  So it's an important day.  And we

        19       have to recognize, and I think it's important

        20       to recognize looking not just is that bill in

        21       the micro issue but the macro issue.  Look

        22       across the river to the west, to New Jersey.

        23       Governor Christie, the new governor of

        24       New Jersey, campaigned on a promise that he

        25       was going to bring back the rebate checks for



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         1       the residents of New Jersey that were taken

         2       away.  Just earlier this week, Governor

         3       Christie announced, You know what, I've got an

         4       economic problem, I'm putting that off for a

         5       year.

         6                  You know what?  We've got an

         7       economic crisis.  What Senator Klein is doing

         8       is recognizing we're providing property tax

         9       relief within the economic constraints that we

        10       are facing.  His original bill had a

        11       $2 billion price tag.  We had to reduce it

        12       down.  We've offered ways to pay for it.  I've

        13       heard Senator Saland's ideas.  I look forward

        14       to fleshing them out in conference committee.

        15                  One of the things -- and I wish he

        16       was on the committee, on the Investigations

        17       Committee, but he could have attended the

        18       hearing yesterday, is we had a hearing on

        19       Medicaid fraud.  And Senator Golden and I

        20       grilled the representative from the Office of

        21       Medicaid Inspector General, because they're

        22       not doing enough about recipient fraud.

        23                  And so the example that Senator

        24       Saland talked about, the taxicab ride back and

        25       forth, those are problems that have to be



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         1       addressed.  We have to do a better job.  And

         2       there are other things that we can find within

         3       this budget, this $130 billion budget.  But

         4       we're going to have to work together.

         5                  And so I'm hopeful that today, in a

         6       bipartisan effort, we will start that process.

         7       And so that at the end of the day we will have

         8       property tax relief for our residents all

         9       across the state.

        10                  Again, I thank you, Senator Klein,

        11       for your leadership.  Mr. President, I will be

        12       voting yes on the bill.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        14       you, Senator Johnson.

        15                  Senator Savino, on the bill.

        16                  SENATOR SAVINO:    Thank you,

        17       Mr. President.

        18                  I want to thank Senator Klein for

        19       his leadership and his vision on this, and

        20       also my colleagues who mostly represent the

        21       suburban areas that have been hardest hit by

        22       property taxes.  And of course Senator Sampson

        23       for making this a priority.

        24                  You know, I learned a long time ago

        25       in the labor movement that when you go into



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         1       negotiations, you never go in from a position

         2       of weakness.  You have to start out strong.

         3       You have to lay your best case forward, with

         4       the greatest demands, knowing that at some

         5       point you're going to have to step back a

         6       little bit.  But always know what your bottom

         7       line is.

         8                  We are about to go into the budget

         9       process where we're drafting our budget

        10       resolution, laying out the priorities for the

        11       New York State Senate, both parties, the

        12       entire house.  And I think if we clearly and

        13       strongly say, as we go into this negotiation

        14       with the Assembly, that property tax relief

        15       must be a component of whatever budget we

        16       pass, we will achieve something for the

        17       thousands of homeowners all across the state,

        18       whether they be in my district -- and there's

        19       about 9,000 households that would benefit from

        20       this -- or Senator Lanza's district on Staten

        21       Island.  He represents a few more homeowners

        22       than I do, but we'd bring real property tax

        23       relief to Staten Island or to Queens, where

        24       Senator Stavisky lives.

        25                  You know, I mentioned earlier today



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         1       that I grew up in Queens.  You know, I was the

         2       second-generation grandchild of immigrants.

         3       And I remember watching my parents'

         4       generation, who were the first generation of

         5       immigrants, whose parents came from the Lower

         6       East Side tenements of Manhattan to the outer

         7       boroughs to live in better accommodations, but

         8       still in apartment buildings.

         9                  And I watched my parents'

        10       generation, who really wanted to move on and

        11       achieve the American dream, go out like

        12       pioneers to the suburbs.  First they went to

        13       places like Nassau and to Westchester.  And

        14       then they went out to Suffolk County and then

        15       to Putnam and to Rockland, and finally Orange

        16       County.  And they went for the hope of the

        17       American dream of homeownership, a patch of

        18       land that they could call their own, and

        19       decent schools.

        20                  Thirty-five years later, after the

        21       great migration to the suburbs, those pioneers

        22       find themselves in an American nightmare.

        23       Their property taxes and their property tax

        24       payments are the higher than their mortgage

        25       payments in many ways.  The communities that



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         1       they built and the schools that they built

         2       around them -- and the business community, and

         3       everything that was benefited by those

         4       pioneers who went out into the suburbs -- are

         5       jeopardized because the very people who stuck

         6       a claim in the ground in Nassau, Suffolk,

         7       Rockland, Westchester, Orange, and Putnam, are

         8       leaving in droves because they can't afford to

         9       stay there.  Their children can't afford to

        10       buy a home there.  And if they can to afford

        11       to buy the home, they can't afford to pay the

        12       property taxes.

        13                  We have an obligation to do

        14       something about that and correct it.  We can

        15       maintain the good schools that drove people to

        16       the suburbs to begin with.  We can put some

        17       fiscal stability on those communities.  We can

        18       maintain that American dream.  And we can do

        19       it by staking our claim in this budget.

        20       Remember, you never negotiate from a position

        21       of weakness.  Because when you do, you don't

        22       get anything.

        23                  So I want to thank Senator Klein

        24       and Senator Johnson and Senator Foley and

        25       Senator Saland and Senator Marcellino and



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         1       Flanagan and all of those who represent -- and

         2       Senator Libous and Senator -- I'll be here all

         3       day if I start doing this.  Everyone who took

         4       the time to educate a girl from Queens and now

         5       Staten Island about just how difficult it is

         6       to maintain that dream of homeownership for so

         7       many of the thousands of pioneers who built

         8       these communities.

         9                  Thank you.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        11       you, Senator Savino.

        12                  Senator Stachowski, on the bill.

        13                  SENATOR STACHOWSKI:    Yes,

        14       Mr. President, briefly on the bill.

        15                  I just wanted to say that I agree

        16       with a lot of what Diane said, that we're

        17       staking out our position.  I think it's very

        18       important.  The people in New York State want

        19       property tax relief.  It's been well

        20       documented how the combination of taxes in

        21       New York make living here difficult.

        22                  And so we thought that before the

        23       budget conversation started this year, in

        24       seriousness, that we should stake out our

        25       position that property tax relief is very



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         1       important to this body.  Nobody can put a

         2       political tag on property tax relief; it's

         3       important to everybody.

         4                  And that this combination as put

         5       forth in this bill is reasonable considering

         6       our fiscal situation.  Obviously, we'd like to

         7       make it bigger.  But with today's economy,

         8       this is a reasonable start to head down the

         9       road of property tax relief to our people.  A

        10       circuit breaker works very well for people

        11       because it limits your taxes to a certain

        12       portion of your income.  Very much needed for

        13       a lot of people.

        14                  And for those seniors who would not

        15       qualify for this, getting that check is just

        16       as important to them as the property tax

        17       relief for the others.

        18                  So we think that this combination

        19       as laid out in this bill is a good combination

        20       now, it's affordable, it can fit in this

        21       year's budget plan, it's out there.  We want

        22       to stake the Senate's position on that.  And I

        23       want to congratulate Senator Klein for all the

        24       work he did in the back over the course of the

        25       last two years in putting this together.



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         1       Obviously, other people have worked on this

         2       long.  We'd like to thank them for their help.

         3                  But something had to move now, and

         4       it had to be a part of this conversation.  And

         5       hopefully we can convince the people in the

         6       other house and the people downstairs that

         7       this is an important situation, it's

         8       meaningful to everybody that lives in

         9       New York, it's something that should move

        10       forward now.

        11                  And I'm glad to be a cosponsor of

        12       this bill and someone helping to move this

        13       forward.

        14                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        16       you, Senator Stachowski.

        17                  Senator Foley, on the bill.

        18                  SENATOR FOLEY:    Thank you,

        19       Mr. President.  Thank you for the opportunity

        20       to speak on what clearly is one of the

        21       signature issues facing the state and

        22       something that's very important to this

        23       conference and we hope to the Senate at large.

        24                  You know, a year and a half ago

        25       when I first ran for office for this



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         1       particular position, this issue captured the

         2       attention of more voters than any other issue

         3       that we spoke about.  And I can vividly recall

         4       when I was walking particularly in the

         5       Trihamlet community of Shirley, Mastic Beach

         6       and Mastic, working-class, middle-class areas

         7       that love their communities, where we had both

         8       young families as well as seniors who wished

         9       to stay in the communities that in some cases

        10       they were there for generations.

        11                  Mr. President, this particular

        12       piece of legislation will enable families to

        13       stay in the communities that they've been part

        14       of in some cases for four generations.  I had

        15       one particular example of a retiree whose

        16       family still lived in that greater community

        17       who would receive over a $2500 property tax

        18       break with this kind of legislation.  The joy

        19       on that particular's person's face when we

        20       spoke about this is something that I'll always

        21       remember.  And I made a mental note at that

        22       time to bring it up to the floor when in fact

        23       we would debate this bill.

        24                  Coming from local government,

        25       Mr. President, and the kind of legislature,



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         1       and also as a supervisor of the Town of

         2       Brookhaven, I can tell you how property taxes

         3       is among the most regressive and crushing

         4       taxes that our localities pay.  That's why

         5       it's very important that we put forward this

         6       legislation today.

         7                  And I want to commend Senator

         8       Klein, who has worked on this over a period of

         9       years.  And I would say, for the record,

        10       respectfully but directly that Senator Klein's

        11       efforts on this behalf should have been

        12       listened to years back when this state was in

        13       a wash of billions of dollars of surplus

        14       funds.

        15                  But you know what?  Even though

        16       we're not in surplus right now -- yes, we have

        17       a deficit, but it still remains important that

        18       we put this legislation forward today.  And

        19       it's very timely as we go into budget

        20       negotiations.  Because what we're saying, as I

        21       like to say, from Niagara Falls to Montauk

        22       Point is that we get it, we understand that

        23       property taxes is at the top of our public

        24       policy agenda, and that we're going to bring

        25       real change in that area here in the state



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         1       government, and in so doing bring a little bit

         2       more confidence to the public that we in the

         3       State Legislature are listening.

         4                  So I strongly support the bill.

         5       I'm also a cosponsor of it.  And I think that

         6       it speaks volumes about where we are, that

         7       we're listening to the public and we want to

         8       bring real property tax relief.

         9                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        11       you, Senator Foley.

        12                  Senator Aubertine, on the bill.

        13                  SENATOR AUBERTINE:    Thank you,

        14       Mr. President.  Thank you for allowing me to

        15       speak on the bill.

        16                  I certainly want to commend Senator

        17       Klein for staying the course with this

        18       legislation.  It's certainly sorely needed.

        19       And I would certainly hope that it has

        20       bipartisan support at the end of the day to

        21       pass.

        22                  But one of the provisions that

        23       Senator Klein has included essentially takes

        24       the essence of a bill that I had before the

        25       Senate last year, and currently, 4451, which



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         1       would allow farmers here in New York State to

         2       do something they've not been able to do up

         3       till now, and that is to take their

         4       depreciation schedules and not use that, in

         5       fact, during their incomes.  That would allow

         6       them to participate in this program.

         7                  So for that and all the work that

         8       Senator Klein has done, I certainly want to

         9       commending him for bringing this bill forward,

        10       and I certainly intend to support it.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        12       you, Senator Aubertine.

        13                  Senator Valesky, on the bill.

        14                  SENATOR VALESKY:    Thank you,

        15       Mr. President.

        16                  I too want to thank my colleague

        17       Senator Klein for his efforts in bringing this

        18       bill to the floor.  I know he spent many hours

        19       shaping and crafting a proposal that can bring

        20       real property tax relief to our constituents.

        21                  And I'm sure that my colleagues

        22       would agree that as we consider various pieces

        23       of legislation, we look at and see how they

        24       are beneficial to our specific Senate

        25       district.  And the information that has been



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         1       made available as a result of this bill and

         2       through passage of this bill, and hopefully

         3       favorable consideration in the Assembly after

         4       this Senate approval, is that in my Senate

         5       district alone, over 15,000 households, under

         6       the circuit-breaker component of this

         7       legislation, over 15,000 households receiving

         8       real property tax relief.  Average income tax

         9       credit of over $716 per household.  Renters in

        10       the 49th Senate district receiving an

        11       additional about almost $5,000, in total, of

        12       property tax relief.

        13                  And certainly the enhanced senior

        14       STAR rebate check component of this

        15       legislation in the counties in central

        16       New York -- Cayuga, Cortland, Madison,

        17       Onondaga and Oswego -- almost 43,000 seniors

        18       would be receiving an enhanced senior STAR

        19       rebate check, with an average somewhere around

        20       a $1000 each.

        21                  Mr. President, that is real, real

        22       property tax relief.  I'll be supporting this

        23       bill today and certainly encourage my

        24       colleagues on both sides of the aisle to do

        25       the same.



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         1                  Thank you.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         3       you, Senator Valesky.

         4                  Senator Diaz, on the bill.

         5                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Thank you,

         6       Mr. President.

         7                  Mr. President, would the sponsor

         8       yield for a question or two?

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        10       Senator Klein, will you yield for a question

        11       from Senator Diaz?

        12                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes,

        13       Mr. President, I'll be happy to yield.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        15       Senator Diaz, the sponsor will yield.

        16                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Senator Klein, as

        17       you know, I represent the 32nd Senatorial

        18       District.  But I'm also the chairman of the

        19       New York State Senate Aging Committee.  So I

        20       have two questions.

        21                  Before, let me talk about my

        22       district, the people that I represent.  I have

        23       20,882 households in my district.  You are

        24       telling me, you are telling me, Senator Klein,

        25       that when we vote for this piece of



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         1       legislation, we vote yes and it goes to the

         2       Assembly and the Assembly approves it and the

         3       Governor signs it into law, you're telling me

         4       that 3,920 households in my district will be

         5       able to get at least $475 each?

         6                  SENATOR KLEIN:    That's only

         7       homeowners who would qualify for the circuit

         8       breaker.  That's correct.

         9                  SENATOR DIAZ:    I mean, let me ask

        10       you this I don't know if I hear you okay,

        11       right.  So 3,920 households in my district

        12       will be able to get about $475 each?

        13                  SENATOR KLEIN:    That's correct,

        14       under the circuit-breaker provisions of the

        15       bill.

        16                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Under this bill?

        17                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Under this piece

        18       of legislation.

        19                  SENATOR DIAZ:    And you're telling

        20       me that under the circuit breaker, the people

        21       in my district will be getting about

        22       $6 million?

        23                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Six and a half

        24       million, in total, of levels of property

        25       taxes.



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         1                  SENATOR DIAZ:    So the renters in

         2       Parkchester, in my district, will be able to

         3       benefit from this?

         4                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Well, I think

         5       Parkchester is a condominium.  And yes,

         6       condominiums would qualify for the circuit

         7       breaker.  And I guess the ones who pay rent as

         8       well.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Would

        10       you like to ask an additional question,

        11       Senator Diaz?

        12                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Yes,

        13       Mr. President.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Would

        15       you yield, Senator Klein?

        16                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President,

        17       I'd be happy to yield.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You

        19       may proceed, Senator Diaz.

        20                  SENATOR DIAZ:    And the people

        21       that rent in public housing, would they be

        22       able to benefit too?

        23                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Senator, it

        24       depends on the proportion of their income that

        25       they spend in rent.  So I would --



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         1                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Well, let me --

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Do you

         3       have an additional question?

         4                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Mr. President,

         5       would the sponsor continue to yield?

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Do you

         7       continue to yield, Senator Klein?

         8                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You

        10       may proceed.

        11                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Senator Klein, I

        12       am also the chairman of the Aging Committee,

        13       supposed to serve the whole state, not only my

        14       district.  You're telling me that under this

        15       piece of legislation, senior citizens

        16       throughout the state, senior citizens will be

        17       able to benefit from this piece of

        18       legislation?

        19                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes, Senator.

        20       Because under the legislation, the STAR rebate

        21       check would go to senior citizens at previous

        22       levels who don't qualify for the circuit

        23       breaker.  And this legislation also restores

        24       the New York City PIT credit for seniors in

        25       New York City.  So yes.



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         1                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Mr. President,

         2       would the sponsor continue to yield?

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         4       Senator Klein, will you continue to yield to

         5       Senator Diaz?

         6                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President,

         7       I'll continue to yield.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You

         9       may proceed, Senator Diaz.

        10                  SENATOR DIAZ:    I have a piece of

        11       information in my hands that says, Senator

        12       Klein, that every county that's upstate,

        13       that's somewhere upstate -- this is not in the

        14       South Bronx, every county is upstate --

        15       they're telling me here that the senior

        16       citizens in every county, New York seniors

        17       with $40,000 in income and $5,000 in property

        18       taxes will benefit from this?

        19                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes, Senator.

        20       Actually, an Erie County senior with $40,000

        21       income who pays $5,000 in property taxes of

        22       course will continue to receive the enhanced

        23       STAR exemption.  The net result for that

        24       individual, who would qualify for the circuit

        25       breaker, would be $1,299 more in tax relief



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         1       than they got in 2009, and even $386 more than

         2       they got in 2008 before the check was

         3       eliminated.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         5       Senator Diaz.

         6                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Mr. President,

         7       will the sponsor --

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         9       Senator Klein, will you continue to yield to

        10       Senator Diaz?

        11                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President,

        12       I'd be happy to continue to yield.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You

        14       may proceed, Senator Diaz.

        15                  SENATOR DIAZ:    I have, in the

        16       same piece of legislation, I have three other

        17       countries, like Oswego County, Westchester

        18       County senior citizens, and Suffolk County.

        19       In Oswego County, seniors with family with

        20       $60,000 income and $6,000 in property tax will

        21       benefit.  In Westchester County, senior

        22       citizens with $120,000 per year and $12,000 in

        23       property taxes will benefit.  And that the

        24       Suffolk County family with $150,000 in income

        25       and $50,000 in property tax would benefit from



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         1       this.

         2                  So you're telling me that as the

         3       chairman of the Aging Committee, I could tell

         4       all the senior citizens in the state that this

         5       Senate, Republican and Democrats, under this

         6       the piece of legislation that Senator Klein is

         7       sponsoring, we are working very hard for them?

         8                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yeah, actually

         9       you can say that, Senator.  Because under the

        10       various categories and the various counties

        11       within our state -- Oswego, Westchester,

        12       Suffolk -- not only do seniors benefit, but

        13       they benefit more than they did in the past as

        14       far as just having the rebate check.  A

        15       circuit breaker provides more property tax

        16       relief, especially for a senior, than just

        17       having a rebate check.  So --

        18                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Mr. President --

        19                  SENATOR KLEIN:    -- your

        20       assumption is correct.

        21                  SENATOR DIAZ:    -- just two more

        22       questions.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        24       Senator Klein, would you yield for two

        25       additional questions?



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         1                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes,

         2       Mr. President, I'll continue to yield.

         3                  SENATOR DIAZ:    The first question

         4       is this.  Would I be able to say, Senator

         5       Klein, that anyone that votes against this is

         6       voting against senior citizens?

         7                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Well, I will say,

         8       Senator, in answer to your question that

         9       certainly this is a piece of legislation that

        10       helps senior citizens.  Because even if a

        11       senior citizen, under this legislation, does

        12       not qualify for a circuit breaker, they still

        13       get their rebate check back.  And if they live

        14       in New York City and if they qualify for a

        15       circuit breaker, that's great.  But if they

        16       don't, they still get the New York City PIT

        17       credit under --

        18                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Last question,

        19       Mr. President and Senator Klein, is this.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        21       Senator Klein has indicated he will yield.

        22                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes,

        23       Mr. President, I'll be happy to yield.

        24                  SENATOR DIAZ:    My question is

        25       this.  After all this information, after all



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         1       this help that we're giving to senior citizens

         2       and to people that pay property taxes and

         3       we're trying to do something for them, why are

         4       we continue talking and we don't vote for it?

         5                  SENATOR KLEIN:    I can't answer

         6       that question.  But I know I continue to

         7       answer your questions, Senator.

         8                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Senator Klein,

         9       this is a bill that I am very proud of and

        10       honored to support it.  I congratulate you and

        11       your staff and the members of the Senate that

        12       have put this together with you.  This is

        13       something that really, really, really does

        14       something for senior citizens in the state.

        15                  As the chairman of the Aging

        16       Committee, I'm so proud, I'm honored to

        17       support this legislation.

        18                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Thank you very

        19       much, Senator.

        20                  SENATOR DIAZ:    And I ask everyone

        21       else that we should do something for senior

        22       citizens and to please talk no more and let's

        23       vote for it.  Thank you.

        24                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Thank you.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank



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         1       you, Senator Diaz.

         2                  Senator Bonacic, on the bill.

         3                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Thank you,

         4       Mr. President.

         5                  I want to thank Senator Klein for

         6       bringing this bill forward.  Property tax

         7       reform is something that has been a top

         8       priority with me for the last six years.  The

         9       people in the mid-Hudson and the Catskill

        10       region, many of them have their houses

        11       underwater because the mortgages and the

        12       property taxes are just eating them up.

        13                  And what I like about this

        14       particular bill is that it's not just a STAR

        15       rebate check, it has a cost-containment

        16       provision.  We've seen how doing just STAR

        17       rebate checks, what happened.  In good times,

        18       we gave more money at the state level for

        19       STAR, school budgets went through the roof,

        20       there wasn't cost containment, and it wasn't

        21       successful.

        22                  And it wasn't successful -- and I

        23       want to share with you just an experience

        24       yesterday.  In the Minisink Valley School

        25       District, where I live, they laid off 24



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         1       employees, immediately.  And then they're now

         2       looking at laying off teachers at the end of

         3       June.  After all the money we have given them,

         4       the State Legislature, over the last six years

         5       with the STAR rebate check.

         6                  So it's not a matter of just

         7       throwing money.  We have to find a way of

         8       controlling costs and enhancing the

         9       educational opportunities.

        10                  The last point that I want to make,

        11       it started in 1993 with Senator Cook that

        12       wanted a property tax rebate.  In 2006, 2007,

        13       and 2008, Senator Saland and I and this

        14       conference -- and you -- supported legislation

        15       that would eliminate school property taxes for

        16       primary residences.  And that was a collective

        17       effort of the Senate.

        18                  Senator Krueger has now been an

        19       advocate for property tax reform and is

        20       working in the aspect of the tax-exempts,

        21       where there's a shifting of cost, and trying

        22       to eliminate those abuses.  And I join her in

        23       that effort, and I hope that she comes forward

        24       shortly with comprehensive legislation in

        25       eliminating the abuses of tax-exempts.



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         1                  Last but not least, we have to be

         2       united on this issue as the budget talks

         3       start.  In '93, the Assembly did nothing.  In

         4       2006, the Assembly did nothing.  In 2007, the

         5       Assembly did nothing.  In 2008, the Assembly

         6       did nothing.  They cannot continue to sit on

         7       their hands when people are losing their homes

         8       because of escalating property taxes.

         9       Homeowners should not have to choose between

        10       whether I can stay in my home or whether my

        11       children can have a quality education.

        12                  So I look forward to conference

        13       committees next week, and the budget process.

        14       We should be one voice in this Senate to get

        15       it done this year, together.

        16                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        18       you, Senator Bonacic.

        19                  Senator Adams.

        20                  SENATOR ADAMS:    Thank you,

        21       Mr. President.

        22                  And I'm happy I follow Senator

        23       Bonacic, because he has been consistent on

        24       this issue.  As well as I want to commend

        25       Senator Klein.



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         1                  You know, I think that all great

         2       legislation that passed through this house,

         3       many people outside the chamber are not aware

         4       that it's not year one, it's just year after

         5       year after year an individual is consistent

         6       with the same tone and the same message.  And

         7       he's probably not only singing to the choir

         8       when he talks about property tax relief, but

         9       many of us probably wrote that song as well.

        10                  So Senator Klein really needs to be

        11       commended that during these challenging

        12       economic times that we're talking about

        13       something that impacts New Yorkers.

        14                  And I believe there are three

        15       sections of our society that we must come to

        16       the rescue for.  The first, of course, are our

        17       children.  The second are those who have

        18       either physical or emotional special needs.

        19       And the last are our seniors.  And we are all

        20       in a position where we should be willing to

        21       give more to make sure those three sections of

        22       our society that needs the greatest amount of

        23       assistance get that assistance.

        24                  We all were children one day, and

        25       we all, if God permits, are going to be



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         1       elders.  So those are groups of people that we

         2       are supposed to give them theirs off the top.

         3       And we need to find ways, as Senator Klein

         4       stated, we need to find ways to make sure that

         5       this is a reality.

         6                  And it also resonates another tone.

         7       the beauty of this chamber is the diversity of

         8       this chamber.  And those outside this chamber

         9       will criticize the fact that we debate, will

        10       criticize the fact that we argue.  But that's

        11       what we're supposed to do.  We're changing

        12       laws that impact the lives of people.  We're

        13       not supposed to walk in here and all be on one

        14       accord, because the state is not on one

        15       accord.  What is needed in one part of the

        16       state may be different in another part of the

        17       state.

        18                  But we should always give each

        19       other the opportunity to debate, bring to the

        20       forefront those issues that each neighbor is

        21       talking about.  And no matter where you go in

        22       this state, the question of property tax

        23       relief is a real issue.  And we are in a

        24       win/win scenario because when we relieve the

        25       property tax issue and the rebate for our



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         1       seniors, we're covering the areas that we

         2       believe are important.

         3                  So one can articulate where you're

         4       going to find the money, but darn it, we

         5       better find the money, because it's a tone

         6       that's resonating throughout this state.  So

         7       yes, we're the choir and we're singing that

         8       song, but we've got to have that song and the

         9       chorus of that song sung on the second floor

        10       and across in the other house.  We must give

        11       property tax relief.  That's what's being

        12       called for.  And if we have to cut in other

        13       areas to obtain that, then let's cut in other

        14       areas to obtain that.  Because that is the

        15       message that the people of the state has been

        16       stating.

        17                  And if we can't sing the same song

        18       of the people who sent us here, then we're in

        19       the wrong choir.  This choir is saying

        20       property tax relief.  And I commend Senator

        21       Bonacic and Senator Klein for being consistent

        22       with that message.

        23                  And if both sides of the aisle, if

        24       we put aside our philosophical differences, if

        25       we put aside our differences based on



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         1       geographical boundaries, if we put aside on

         2       what side of the aisle or what name is on the

         3       back of the chair or what role we are at the

         4       polling place, if we put all that to the side

         5       and leave here with one statement to the

         6       second floor and across in the other house,

         7       property tax relief, then everyone must get on

         8       board.

         9                  Because we're not the lower house,

        10       we're the upper house.  And we need to set the

        11       tone for those people in our communities and

        12       neighborhoods from Bethpage to Brownsville

        13       that are stating, We need the rebate and we

        14       need property tax relief.

        15                  I support this bill, and I thank

        16       you, Senator Klein, for bringing it.  Thank

        17       you, Mr. President.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        19       you, Senator Adams.

        20                  Senator LaValle, on the bill.

        21                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Thank you,

        22       Mr. President.

        23                  Will Senator Klein yield for one

        24       question?

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:



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         1       Senator Klein, will you yield for a question

         2       from Senator LaValle?

         3                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes,

         4       Mr. President, I'd be happy to yield.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You

         6       may proceed, Senator LaValle.

         7                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Thank you,

         8       Mr. President.

         9                  Senator Klein, could you tell me

        10       how much the renters provision costs in the

        11       bill?  Have you been able to cost that out?

        12                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yeah, it's

        13       $150 million.

        14                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Statewide?

        15                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes.

        16                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Okay.  Thank

        17       you.

        18                  On the bill, Mr. President.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        20       Senator LaValle, on the bill.

        21                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Certainly any

        22       effort that we make to reduce real property

        23       taxes on the people that we represent is a

        24       good thing.  But this problem is so acute, I

        25       think in each of our districts people are



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         1       calling out for help.  The pain that they feel

         2       is enormous.  This bill really doesn't go far

         3       enough.

         4                  Our young people, you know, we've

         5       talked, I've talked about those seniors who

         6       are 70 or older.  There are a lot of young

         7       people.  That's why the STAR rebate program

         8       covers all households regardless of age.

         9       Senator Klein's bill limits that.  If we look

        10       at the circuit breaker, income of $50,000 and

        11       you have taxes of $3500, you get no help.  At

        12       $75,000 in income, your taxes $5,250, you get

        13       no help.  If your income is $100,000 and your

        14       taxes are $7,000, you get no help.

        15                  And I want to tell you, there are a

        16       lot of people in various parts of the state at

        17       that $100,000 who are paying $7,000 in taxes

        18       and won't get any help.  And $120,000, with

        19       taxes $8400, no help; $175,000, with $12,800

        20       in taxes, you get no help.

        21                  So we have young people not getting

        22       help.  We've got people in these income

        23       categories in various parts of the state who

        24       will get, really, no help.  And that's why the

        25       choice set up of the rebate, the circuit



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         1       breaker, and the freeze or the cap for those

         2       over 70, that kind of synergy works from one

         3       end of the state to the other.

         4                  Thank you, Mr. President.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         6       you, Senator LaValle.

         7                  Senator Larkin.

         8                  SENATOR LARKIN:    Thank you,

         9       Mr. President.  On the bill.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    On the

        11       bill.

        12                  SENATOR LARKIN:    We've heard a

        13       lot of talk here today.  Some of you are not

        14       as old as LaValle or Volker or Georgie Winner

        15       over here.  But in 1980 there was a bill put

        16       together by Senator Cook and Assemblyman Bill

        17       Larkin, and we went around the state with it.

        18       Here we are, 2010, and we're still talking

        19       about.

        20                  Now, I heard Senator Klein say we

        21       can't talk about the money.  But let's talk

        22       about the money.  You have to.  We're saying

        23       we're going to wait for a budget?  I think

        24       that we have to make sure what we're talking

        25       about.  I mean, this is a very important bill



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         1       today.  Look at all the empty chairs.  Look at

         2       all the empty chairs.

         3                  Some of you might remember a couple

         4       of weeks ago, in Washington, Congressman

         5       Kennedy nearly went wild -- maybe he lost his

         6       pills -- but he screamed that nobody was

         7       paying attention.

         8                  This is serious.  Where is the

         9       money?  I don't hear anybody say it.  I hear

        10       them saying, Oh, we're going to do this.

        11       Let's look at it:  $129 million for the

        12       license plates.  That's a dead issue.  The

        13       Speaker said this morning the soda tax is

        14       gone.  That's $450 million.  And wine in the

        15       grocery stores, that's another.  Now you're

        16       talking a billion dollars.

        17                  And we don't know where this is

        18       going.  We're saying we'll do it when the

        19       budget comes.  I don't know whether you're

        20       paying attention to some of your people at

        21       home, but they're saying "Where is the money?"

        22                  And, you know, the thing that

        23       amazes me from that side of the aisle is when

        24       they say We're going to do something about the

        25       STAR.  I saw letters come out:  Join me with a



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         1       letter to the Governor, change it before he

         2       does his 21 days.  Now I see it here.  You

         3       would have never been here talking about it

         4       today if one year ago one person from that

         5       side of the aisle said "Hold it."  Because,

         6       you know, somebody may be taking your picture

         7       and say "This was you last year when you were

         8       smiling.  This is you this year when you're

         9       crying."

        10                  There is a great opportunity, but

        11       somebody better start saying where the money

        12       is coming from.

        13                  Most people are going to vote for

        14       this because conceptually it's a good item.

        15       But where were you last year?  You weren't

        16       here.  Why?  Because it wasn't popular.  I got

        17       news for you.  It's been popular for the

        18       30 years I've been here.  The will to do it

        19       just wasn't there.  But when somebody gets up

        20       here and says "Support my bill" and I say

        21       "Where's the money?" -- "Oh, by the time we

        22       get to the budget."

        23                  We don't have a sponsor in the

        24       other house.  I checked with it; there is no

        25       sponsor from the Assembly.  I don't see any



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         1       letters.  The only one I see is from NYSUT.

         2       They don't support you.  So I think we're --

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Excuse

         4       me, Senator Larkin.

         5                  Why do you rise, Senator Craig

         6       Johnson?

         7                  SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:    Will

         8       Senator Larkin yield for a question, please?

         9                  SENATOR LARKIN:    Yes, I would.

        10                  SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:    Thank you

        11       so much.

        12                  Senator Larkin, I appreciate your

        13       comments that you're saying.  But are you

        14       aware that Assemblyman Englebright in the

        15       Assembly has the same-as legislation for

        16       Senator Klein?

        17                  SENATOR LARKIN:    Pardon me, I

        18       couldn't hear you.  My ears are not working.

        19                  SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:    I

        20       apologize, Senator Larkin.  Are you aware that

        21       Steve Englebright, an Assemblyman from Suffolk

        22       County, is the Assembly sponsor for the

        23       same-as legislation --

        24                  SENATOR LARKIN:    I didn't see it

        25       yesterday when I was trying to find it.  So I



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         1       accept that, and I apologize to Senator Klein.

         2                  SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:    Just for

         3       purpose of clarification.  Thank you very

         4       much, Senator Larkin.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         6       you, Senator Johnson.

         7                  You may proceed, Senator Larkin.

         8                  SENATOR LARKIN:    I'm glad, but I

         9       haven't seen anything, as I said.

        10                  But the point of the matter is if

        11       we got a bill, it's sponsored in both houses,

        12       why are we afraid to come up and say this is

        13       the money for this, and this is it?  The

        14       reason we don't is we don't have an agreement.

        15       And, you know, we're talking to the choir and

        16       trying to tell them that we're doing something

        17       for them.

        18                  Now, last but not least, when

        19       somebody tells me it's only $150 million for

        20       the renters, I think somebody better be part

        21       of the Census.  Because I'll bet you it's

        22       going to be closer to $250 million, not

        23       $150 million.

        24                  So good bill.  I'd like to see the

        25       check that's going to pay for it.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         2       you, Senator Larkin.

         3                  The debate is closed.

         4                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

         5                  Read the last section.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 12.  This

         7       act shall take effect immediately.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

         9       the roll.

        10                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        12       Senator Liz Krueger, to explain her vote.

        13                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you

        14       very much.

        15                  I have some concerns, as I've heard

        16       my colleagues say, about making sure that this

        17       bill moves into budget negotiations.  And

        18       that's where we're going to go next.

        19                  So while there can be a million

        20       different issues raised -- and with respect to

        21       my colleagues on the other side of the aisle's

        22       hostiles, they would have doubled the cost.

        23       And realistically, we all know we're in a very

        24       difficult budget year where we are trying

        25       desperately to get a budget done on time,



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         1       knowing we're going to make difficult cuts.

         2                  But I am pleased to be able to

         3       stand with my colleagues and vote for this

         4       bill today, because I do know that a priority

         5       of the Senate Democrats is to make sure that

         6       we address property tax relief concerns this

         7       year.

         8                  I vote aye.  Thank you.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        10       Senator Krueger will be recorded in the

        11       affirmative.

        12                  Senator Robach, to explain his

        13       vote.

        14                  SENATOR ROBACH:    Yes,

        15       Mr. President, very quickly.

        16                  I would just rise to support this,

        17       but I would associate my comments very much

        18       with Senator Bonacic.

        19                  One thing Senator Klein said that

        20       was on point, people are angry.  People in my

        21       district are beyond angry, they're screaming.

        22       And part of what they're screaming about is

        23       what was done in last year's budget where part

        24       of the STAR check was taken away, on

        25       party-line vote, by my colleagues on the



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         1       Democratic side of the aisle.  So I'm glad

         2       we're moving in a different direction.

         3                  Now I'm going to make no bones

         4       about it.  I'm frustrated too.  I like the

         5       amendments we did.  I like the Republican

         6       plan.  And I think if people voted on their

         7       own volition, they would have voted for those

         8       too.  Because it doesn't cost more, it gives

         9       more relief, and that's what people are

        10       screaming for.

        11                  And then lastly I'll say while I'm

        12       happy that we're moving in this direction --

        13       and I'll applaud Senator Klein as well that

        14       we're doing this bill today -- before anybody

        15       breaks their arm patting themselves on the

        16       back, we're all going to have to use a little

        17       political capital to get this done in the

        18       other house.  Which is exactly what John

        19       Bonacic said.  It has languished for years

        20       with no attention to the public, whether it's

        21       downstate New York, suburban Long Island, or

        22       certainly not in upstate New York.  And this

        23       is serious stuff.

        24                  The work isn't done because we've

        25       had a press conference.  We've really got to



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         1       get this done.  And whether it's stand-alone

         2       or part of the budget, quite frankly, the

         3       people I represent don't care, they want a

         4       result.  So I'll vote for this to move towards

         5       that result.  But make no mistake, our work is

         6       far, far from done.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         8       Senator Robach will be recorded in the

         9       affirmative.

        10                  Senator Oppenheimer, to explain her

        11       vote.

        12                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Thank you.

        13                  I'll be voting yes because there's

        14       much in this bill that I do like very, very

        15       much, particularly my Senate district, which

        16       certainly is exceedingly overburdened.  We

        17       have the highest property taxes, in

        18       Westchester County, of any place in the

        19       United States.  So obviously I am very

        20       supportive of that part of the bill.

        21                  The part of the bill that I have

        22       difficulty with -- even though I am supporting

        23       the bill, because generally I do think the

        24       bill is good.  But I believe that individual

        25       school districts should have the authority and



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         1       ability to decide their own fate.

         2                  And to think that citizens are not

         3       aware of their budgets is foolhardy, because I

         4       can assure you the citizens in the district

         5       that I represent scrutinize their school

         6       budget budgets.  And, you know, as we all

         7       know, this is the only place where voters can

         8       take out their frustrations.  And it is on the

         9       school budget that they take their

        10       frustrations out on.

        11                  But one would think that if this

        12       cap was such a good thing that we ought to be

        13       able to cap those other budgets, like

        14       municipal and county.  We should be able to

        15       cap them too, because in a way we can't even

        16       vote on those budgets.  So a lot of

        17       frustration is taken out on the only area

        18       where it is possible to vote.

        19                  I'd also like to say that just

        20       judging from what I hear in my Senate

        21       district, there is absolutely no school budget

        22       that seems to be above 2, maybe 2 1/2 percent.

        23       Because we all recognize that there is a great

        24       deal of frustration and anger with the

        25       property tax, and that therefore we have to



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         1       restrain it even though it does mean in many

         2       cases enormous layoffs of teachers.  Which

         3       means it will be difficult to maintain the

         4       excellent education programs that we have just

         5       finally put in place in the last few years.

         6                  So I'll be voting yes, but I must

         7       say I have always been and will always be

         8       against caps.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        10       Senator Oppenheimer will be recorded in the

        11       affirmative.

        12                  Senator Fuschillo, to explain his

        13       vote.

        14                  SENATOR FUSCHILLO:    Thank you

        15       very much, Mr. President.  Just quickly; this

        16       has been a long discussion.

        17                  I agree with Senator Robach that

        18       last year direction's in the state budget by

        19       reducing STAR and taking away the rebate and

        20       increasing taxes and fees sent the state in

        21       the wrong direction.  But this is a start in

        22       the right direction.  And I want to compliment

        23       Senator Klein for his efforts, because he did

        24       truly reach out, I know to myself -- I met

        25       with him, we had numerous phone calls on this



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         1       issue -- and also my colleagues.

         2                  There isn't a day that goes by that

         3       I don't hear from constituents in my district

         4       that they're choking to death on property

         5       taxes.  And if we don't do something that's

         6       real and meaningful, then we fail the people

         7       of the State of New York.  This is a step in

         8       the right direction.  Shame on the Assembly if

         9       they don't do anything.  I proudly support

        10       this bill.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        12       Senator Fuschillo will be recorded in the

        13       affirmative.

        14                  Senator Marcellino, to explain his

        15       vote.

        16                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,

        17       Mr. President.  I appreciate you recognizing

        18       me to explain my vote.

        19                  I intend to support this bill, and

        20       I congratulate Senator Klein for his efforts

        21       in bringing this bill forward.  He's got many

        22       good things in the bill.  There are some

        23       things I would have added, like the two

        24       amendments I thought would have enhanced the

        25       bill, made it even better and even stronger.



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         1                  However, a good first step.  Let's

         2       continue the process.  I agree with my

         3       colleagues who have just said we need results.

         4       Talk is cheap.  Taxes are high.  And my

         5       constituents want tax relief, property tax

         6       relief.

         7                  And I agree with what Senator

         8       Fuschillo just said.  Shame on the other house

         9       if they don't do something like this.  If they

        10       don't bring this bill forward, if they don't

        11       carry this bill forward and give us real

        12       property tax relief in this state, then we

        13       will have a real problem here.  And I think we

        14       have to address that.

        15                  This bill is a first step.  I think

        16       we have to do more.  However, I'll take it.

        17       I'm going to support it.  And I'm more than

        18       willing to work with anyone -- Senator Klein,

        19       anybody -- if we can get to the other house

        20       and get them to pass this legislation and make

        21       this property tax relief for real for a

        22       change.  Not just talk, a real bill.

        23                  Thank you, Mr. President.  I vote

        24       aye.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:



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         1       Senator Marcellino will be recorded in the

         2       affirmative.

         3                  Announce the results.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

         5       Calendar Number 257, recorded in the negative:

         6       Senator Perkins.

         7                  Absent from voting pursuant to

         8       Rule 9, Senator Hassell-Thompson.

         9                  Ayes, 58.  Nays, 1.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        11       bill is passed.

        12                  Senator Klein.

        13                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, is

        14       there any further business at the desk?

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        16       Senator Klein, the desk is clear.

        17                  SENATOR KLEIN:    There being no

        18       further business, Mr. President, I move that

        19       we adjourn until Monday, March 22nd, at

        20       3:00 p.m., intervening days to be legislative

        21       days.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    There

        23       being no further business, on motion, the

        24       Senate stands adjourned until Monday,

        25       March 22nd, at 3:00 p.m., intervening days



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         1       being legislative days.

         2                  (Whereupon, at 2:36 p.m., the

         3       Senate adjourned.)

         4

         5

         6

         7

         8

         9

        10

        11

        12

        13

        14

        15

        16

        17

        18

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