Regular Session - May 3, 2010

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         1                 NEW YORK STATE SENATE

         2

         3

         4                THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

         5

         6

         7

         8

         9                   ALBANY, NEW YORK

        10                      May 3, 2010

        11                       4:12 p.m.

        12

        13

        14                    REGULAR SESSION

        15

        16

        17

        18  SENATOR NEIL D. BRESLIN, Acting President

        19  ANGELO J. APONTE, Secretary

        20

        21

        22

        23

        24

        25



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         1                 P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         3       Senate will please come to order.

         4                  I ask everyone to rise and recite

         5       with me the Pledge of Allegiance.

         6                  (Whereupon, the assemblage recited

         7       the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         9       Reverend Peter G. Young will give the

        10       invocation, from Mother Teresa Community

        11       Church.

        12                  REVEREND YOUNG:    Thank you.

        13                  May I remember with prayer the

        14       death anniversary of Senator John Marchi

        15       today, who had served in this house for over

        16       50 years, and all of those who have served in

        17       this house, the Senators who have been so

        18       dedicated, so that they will be remembered by

        19       way of their leadership in New York State.

        20                  Because You, Almighty and Eternal

        21       God, have revealed Your glory to all nations,

        22       God of power and might and wisdom and justice,

        23       come to our Senators through Your authority

        24       with the prayer that Your laws are enacted and

        25       the judgments are decreed, with our citizens



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         1       benefiting from their dedication and of our

         2       session today.

         3                  Amen.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         5       you, Father Young.

         6                  The reading of the Journal.

         7                  The Secretary will read.

         8                  THE SECRETARY:    In Senate,

         9       Sunday, May 2nd, the Senate met pursuant to

        10       adjournment.  The Journal of Saturday,

        11       May 1st, was read and approved.  On motion,

        12       Senate adjourned.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        14       Without objection, the Journal stands approved

        15       as read.

        16                  Presentation of petitions.

        17                  Messages from the Assembly.

        18                  Messages from the Governor.

        19                  Reports of standing committees.

        20                  Reports of select committees.

        21                  Communications and reports from

        22       state officers.

        23                  Motions and resolutions.

        24                  Senator Klein.

        25                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Thank you,



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         1       Mr. President.

         2                  On behalf of Senator Aubertine, on

         3       page number 23 I offer the following

         4       amendments to Calendar Number 371, Senate

         5       Print Number 7181, and ask that said bill

         6       retain its place on Third Reading Calendar.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    So

         8       ordered.

         9                  SENATOR KLEIN:    On behalf of

        10       Senator Foley, I move that the following bill

        11       be discharged from its respective committee

        12       and be recommitted with instructions to strike

        13       the enacting clause:  Senate Number 4985.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    So

        15       ordered.

        16                  SENATOR KLEIN:    On behalf of

        17       Senator Foley again, on page number 24 I offer

        18       the following amendments to Calendar Number

        19       389, Senate Print Number 5995, and ask that

        20       said bill retain its place on Third Reading

        21       Calendar.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    So

        23       ordered.

        24                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, I

        25       move to amend Senate Bill Number 1901A by



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         1       striking out the amendments made on April 1,

         2       2009, and restoring it to its original print

         3       number, 1901.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    So

         5       ordered.

         6                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, I

         7       wish to call up my bill, Print Number 5896C,

         8       recalled from the Assembly, which is now at

         9       the desk.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        11       Secretary will read.

        12                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        13       378, by Senator Klein, Senate Print 5896C, an

        14       act to amend the Real Property Law.

        15                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, I

        16       now move to reconsider the vote by which this

        17       bill was passed.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        19       Secretary will call the roll on

        20       reconsideration.

        21                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 59.

        23                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, I

        24       now offer the following amendments.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The



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         1       amendments are received, Senator Klein.

         2                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, at

         3       this time can you please call on Senator

         4       Parker.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         6       Senator Parker.

         7                  SENATOR PARKER:    Mr. President,

         8       point of personal privilege.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You

        10       may proceed, Senator Parker.

        11                  SENATOR PARKER:    Thank you,

        12       Mr. President.

        13                  I'd like to take a few moments of

        14       personal privilege to address my words and

        15       actions of last week.

        16                  I ran for this office to bring

        17       change.  The communities I represent of the

        18       21st District, which include Flatbush and East

        19       Flatbush, Midwood, Ditmas Park, Kensington and

        20       Boro Park, have long been shortchanged.  On

        21       every single issue that matters to my

        22       constituents -- affordable housing,

        23       immigration access, access to healthcare,

        24       quality education, mass transit and public

        25       safety -- this state, this Senate, has let



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         1       them down.

         2                  The seat I occupy was created in

         3       2002 during redistricting.  I ran and ran hard

         4       on all those issues, to make change.  When I

         5       got here, I was somewhat surprised to learn

         6       that as a freshman Senator in the minority, I

         7       was expected to be unseen, unheard and

         8       uninvolved.  It was implicit but clear my

         9       constituents were expected to be

        10       disenfranchised.  My vote and their votes were

        11       effectively irrelevant, and I was urged by

        12       some in this chamber to go along and get

        13       along.  I think everybody knows that didn't

        14       happen.

        15                  I was sent here to be a voice for

        16       the voiceless.  One month within my first

        17       term, the New York Times ran an editorial when

        18       I had the nerve, the gall, to actually ask

        19       questions in a committee meeting.  I asked

        20       questions about the nominee's qualifications

        21       to run one of the most important agencies in

        22       the state.  He had failed the bar several

        23       times, for example, but I never asked him

        24       questions about his race, his ethnicity, and

        25       his religion.



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         1                  And as a matter of fact, post that

         2       questioning, him and I actually developed, I

         3       think, a very good relationship, and I

         4       consider him a friend even to this day.

         5                  The next day Senator Duane tried to

         6       ask the same questions of a nominee in the

         7       Senate Finance Committee.  As Senator Duane

         8       went further, asking questions the nominee's

         9       involvement in allegedly helping fix a case

        10       where a worker was killed on a job site, the

        11       committee chair simply ruled his questions as

        12       not relevant.  The chair decided the questions

        13       had gone on long enough and called for the

        14       vote.

        15                  We've come a long way since 2003.

        16       In terms of process, we became more active as

        17       a minority conference.  We worked with

        18       communities across the state and won elections

        19       to transform this chamber.  And when we took

        20       the majority, we didn't stifle debate, strip

        21       minority resources, or bottle things up in

        22       committee.

        23                  Instead, under Malcolm Smith and

        24       John Sampson, we opened this house up in ways

        25       never seen before, offering members of the



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         1       minority conference the ability to exercise

         2       their rights, privileges of being a Senator,

         3       and the ability to represent their

         4       constituents, a courtesy we had never

         5       previously received.

         6                  Mr. President, I would much prefer

         7       today's spotlight be on the environmental or

         8       labor bills and the budget extenders.  And to

         9       the extent that my words last week brought

        10       commotion and emotion to this house in ways

        11       that may distract or divide us or divert us

        12       from the important work of the people of

        13       New York State -- this work that's so

        14       important for all of us, the work that

        15       New Yorkers sent us here to accomplish -- if I

        16       have offended people in this chamber in any

        17       way, I offer my sincerest apologies for my

        18       zealous advocacy.

        19                  But to the extent that my words

        20       bring debate and discussion to this house on

        21       the issue of race, exclusion and, conversely,

        22       new opportunity, I offer my sincerest

        23       commitment to continue that debate and that

        24       discussion and ask you to be partners in that

        25       debate.



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         1                  It is also exceedingly important

         2       for me to explain to this house, through you,

         3       Mr. President, that my criticisms are not, in

         4       fact, at bottom personal.  I can't see into

         5       anyone's soul.  And I should not have

         6       personalized my comments, because the issues I

         7       spoke about are larger than any one individual

         8       or group.  The problems of race, lack of

         9       access to opportunity, and the economic

        10       disparities in New York existed long before

        11       any of us were elected to this chamber.  And

        12       to the extent they persist, in many ways we

        13       are all complicit.

        14                  All that is necessary for evil to

        15       triumph is for good people to do nothing.  The

        16       failures of this chamber to right historic and

        17       current wrongs were and are not personal.

        18       Rather, they are institutional, and we are all

        19       of us not doing enough.

        20                  We need to do more to ensure

        21       diversity on the bench and the commissions,

        22       authorities, and boards.  We need to do more

        23       to ensure fair and less political contracting

        24       and investment opportunities through OGS and

        25       the agencies and departments and office of the



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         1       State Comptroller.

         2                  We need to look more closely at

         3       hiring an opportunity agenda for the Senate

         4       itself.  It would be easy to look at either

         5       side of this chamber, compare the compositions

         6       of our conferences and call it a day.  It

         7       would be easy to look at their respective

         8       hiring records and draw conclusions.  But that

         9       would only further divide us, fuel the

        10       dysfunction, and weaken our state even more in

        11       these difficult times.

        12                  I regret seeking to ascribe blame

        13       in such personal terms rather than focusing on

        14       the broader nature of the work that we must

        15       do.  We don't need to fix blame, we need to

        16       fix the problem.  And we can really only do

        17       that if we work together.

        18                  I think everyone knows that I am a

        19       loud and passionate advocate for my community

        20       and for the people of the State of New York.

        21       I will never shrink away from my

        22       responsibility to speak up for those who sent

        23       me here and, by extension, for those I love.

        24                  Even before former Governor Spitzer

        25       said it, I have long believed that you don't



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         1       change the world by a whisper.  I believe, in

         2       my responsibility to speak the truth as I know

         3       it, that we still have far to go on issues of

         4       race, gender, class and sexuality, and to

         5       confront those hard truths in all their

         6       complexity whenever I can.

         7                  Much has been said about what

         8       people describe as my anger.  I still believe

         9       there is much to be confronted and much to be

        10       fought over.  And in recent days I have been

        11       reminded of President Obama's speech on race,

        12       and I have read it again in the context of

        13       this moment.  It was an amazing speech at an

        14       amazing time in our collective histories.  And

        15       in it our President spoke of anger on both

        16       sides of the racial divide.

        17                  One particular passage about black

        18       anger struck me, and it stays with me.  He

        19       said, and I quote, "That anger is not always

        20       productive.  Indeed, more often it distracts

        21       attention from solving real problems.  It

        22       keeps us from squarely facing our own

        23       complexity and our condition and prevents the

        24       African-American community from forging the

        25       alliances it needs to bring about real change.



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         1       But the anger is real; it is powerful; and it

         2       simply can't be wished away.  To condemn it

         3       without understanding its roots only serves to

         4       widen the chasm of misunderstanding that

         5       exists between the races."

         6                  The President went on to say that a

         7       similar anger exists in the white community

         8       and how anger on both sides distracts from the

         9       real challenges, he says.  Again, in quotes,

        10       "Just as black anger often proved

        11       counterproductive, so have these white

        12       resentments distracted attention from the real

        13       culprits of the middle-class squeeze -- a

        14       corporate cultural rift with inside dealings;

        15       questionable accounting practices and

        16       short-term greed; a Washington dominated by

        17       lobbyists and special interests; economic

        18       policies that favor the few over the many.

        19       And yet to wish away the resentment of white

        20       Americans, to label them as misguided or even

        21       racist without recognizing they are grounded

        22       in legitimate concerns, this too widens the

        23       racial divide and blocks our path to

        24       understanding."

        25                  Here we are, two years after the



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         1       speech, facing the same problems of the

         2       economy, class, and special influence -- and

         3       here we are with no real cooperation to fix

         4       the problems, to form a more perfect union, or

         5       to build a safer, stronger or more prosperous

         6       New York.

         7                  I also agree with the President

         8       that we cannot view racial relations as

         9       static, as if no progress has been made and we

        10       are bound to a tragic past.  America has

        11       changed, but that change has not come easily

        12       or quietly.  Nor has that change come without

        13       hard work, sacrifice, and the willingness to

        14       work together.  And for most times it has been

        15       New York leading that change -- in the labor

        16       movement, the abolitionist movement, the

        17       suffrage movement, the Stonewall uprisings and

        18       others.

        19                  I believe it is time for us to lead

        20       again.  It is my hope today that hard as my

        21       words were last week, we can use these coming

        22       weeks of our session to have a conversation

        23       and to do that hard work that we need to do

        24       around these difficult issues.

        25                  It is my hope that today can be a



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         1       starting point for real conversation based on

         2       a commitment on my part to work on both sides

         3       of the aisle to find ways to give real people

         4       access to real jobs, capital and the

         5       opportunities of this state.

         6                  It is my hope today that we can

         7       lead a meaningful effort to bring our people

         8       together instead of continuing the divisions

         9       that have manifested themselves in conflictive

        10       governmental dysfunction.

        11                  Mr. President, I wish to make one

        12       more point.  Over the past few days, I've had

        13       a relatively unique set of experiences.  I

        14       have received more requests for media

        15       interviews than at any other time in my

        16       career.  Not for legislation I passed or

        17       demonstrating for more education funding or

        18       for the free breast cancer or dental

        19       screenings I offer in my district, or for the

        20       prom dresses I will give away to many young

        21       women of low-income households this Saturday,

        22       but solely for this issue.

        23                  I have also, for the first time in

        24       my life, received death threats.  My office

        25       has received multiple threats, one of which



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         1       also threatened the President.  The

         2       authorities are investigating, and I hope not

         3       much more will come of it.  But the threats

         4       tell me that that conversation we need -- we

         5       really need to have this conversation.

         6                  The threats are also a clear

         7       reminder to me that we are not alone and that

         8       I am not alone.  That those around me -- my

         9       staff, my family, you, my colleagues -- may

        10       all be impacted by my actions.  And I say to

        11       all of you that I will work to make better

        12       choices.

        13                  I'm not afraid.  I know that there

        14       are consequences for those choices that I

        15       make.  But I believe that conversation is too

        16       important to back away from, and I'll tell you

        17       why.  Last Wednesday reporters descended upon

        18       my district office seeking comments from me

        19       and my constituency.  Tragically, right across

        20       the street, a young man in his early thirties

        21       was shot and killed.  The media was there to

        22       cover me but ended up covered the shooting.  I

        23       can tell you they don't usually cover

        24       shootings in Brooklyn, particularly in

        25       Flatbush.  If it weren't so tragic, that irony



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         1       could make one laugh or cry.

         2                  Where were the schools and the

         3       after-school programs, the prenatal care, the

         4       social workers, the cops on the beat when that

         5       young man was shot?  That's why I'm here.  For

         6       all the young men and women who are murdered

         7       over economic scrapes, or who live in poverty

         8       and fear, and those kids we have failed.  The

         9       reality is I cannot fix these problems by

        10       working alone.  I need your help, and I want

        11       your help to fix them.

        12                  That's the real test for us.  We

        13       can -- the real test for us is whether we can

        14       work together across regions, across racial

        15       and political lines, and invest in each other

        16       to save our state.  Can we reject the old

        17       arrangements, the old disagreements to build a

        18       stronger and fairer economy for everyone?  Can

        19       we come together to build a safe, strong and

        20       more just New York?  Can we suffer together in

        21       the deepest, most savage economic upset since

        22       the Great Depression?

        23                  I believe we can.  I know we can.

        24       I am willing to step back from the rhetoric

        25       alone if we were all willing to step up and do



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         1       the work.  I am willing to work with anyone in

         2       this chamber to make that a reality, and I ask

         3       you for all your help in this effort.

         4                  Thank you, Mr. President.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         6       you, Senator Parker.

         7                  Senator Klein.

         8                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President,

         9       can you recognize Senator Libous.  I believe

        10       he has a motion.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        12       Senator Libous.

        13                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Mr. President,

        14       on page 19 I offer the following amendments to

        15       Calendar Number 311, Senate Print 5863A, on

        16       behalf of Senator Fuschillo, and ask that said

        17       bill retain its place on Third Reading

        18       Calendar.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    So

        20       ordered.

        21                  Senator Klein.

        22                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, I

        23       believe there's a resolution at the desk by

        24       Senator Sampson.  I ask that the resolution be

        25       read in its entirety and move for its



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         1       immediate adoption.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         3       Senator Klein, has this resolution been deemed

         4       privileged and submitted to the offices of the

         5       Temporary President?

         6                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes, it has,

         7       Mr. President.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         9       Secretary will read.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    By Senator

        11       Sampson, legislative resolution recognizing

        12       Saturday, May 1, 2010, as Law Day USA in the

        13       State of New York.

        14                  "WHEREAS, For over two centuries

        15       our state and nation have adhered to the rule

        16       of law as the foundation for a safe, free and

        17       justice society.  Seeking to formally

        18       recognize this tradition, President Eisenhower

        19       established Law Day in 1958 as a day of

        20       national dedication to the principles of

        21       government under the law; and

        22                  "WHEREAS, This Legislative Body

        23       celebrates the importance of Law Day USA in

        24       the State of New York.  In doing so, we as

        25       citizens of this great state and nation



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         1       recommit ourselves to the rule of law and to

         2       upholding the fundamental principles enshrined

         3       in our founding documents; and

         4                  "WHEREAS, The theme of this year's

         5       Law Day, 'Law in the 21st Century:  Enduring

         6       Traditions and Emerging Challenges,' reminds

         7       us to draw upon and adapt to our time-honored

         8       legal traditions to meet the demands of a

         9       global world; and

        10                  "WHEREAS, As we begin the second

        11       decade of the 21st century, new communications

        12       technologies are rapidly emerging, connecting

        13       the world.  Legal issues of human rights,

        14       migration, environmental regulation, and

        15       outsourcing are now internationally commingled

        16       due to the ease of communicating and traveling

        17       across borders.  Accordingly, the law is also

        18       dramatically changing; and.

        19                  WHEREAS, This Legislative Body is

        20       committed to ensuring that the citizens of

        21       New York State understand and remain dedicated

        22       to and are protected by the principles of

        23       government under the law; now, therefore, be

        24       it resolved

        25                  "RESOLVED, That this Legislative



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         1       Body pause in its deliberations to recognize

         2       Saturday, May 1, 2010, as Law Day USA in the

         3       State of New York; and be it further

         4                  "RESOLVED, That copies of this

         5       resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted

         6       to Carolyn B. Lamm, President, American Bar

         7       Association, and to Michael E. Getnick,

         8       President, New York State Bar Association."

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        10       question is on the resolution.  All those in

        11       favor please signify by saying aye.

        12                  (Response of "Aye.")

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        14       Opposed, nay.

        15                  (No response.)

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        17       resolution is adopted.

        18                  Senator Sampson has indicated that

        19       he would like to open the resolution to joint

        20       cosponsorship by the entire house.  Any

        21       Senator wishing not to be on the resolution

        22       please notify the desk.

        23                  Senator Klein.

        24                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President,

        25       there will be an immediate meeting of the



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         1       Finance Committee, followed by an immediate

         2       meeting of the Rules Committee in the Majority

         3       Conference Room, Room 332.

         4                  Pending the return of the Rules

         5       Committee, may we please stand at ease.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    There

         7       will be an Immediate meeting of the Finance

         8       Committee in Room 332, followed by a meeting

         9       of the Rules Committee.

        10                  Pending the return of those

        11       committees, the Senate stands at ease.

        12                  (Whereupon, the Senate stood at

        13       ease at 4:32 p.m.)

        14                  (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

        15       at 5:15 p.m.)

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        17       Senator Klein.

        18                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, I

        19       believe there's a report of the Rules

        20       Committee at the desk.  I move that we adopt

        21       the report at this time.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    There

        23       is a report of the Rules Committee at the

        24       desk.

        25                  The Secretary will read.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Senator Smith,

         2       from the Committee on Rules, reports the

         3       following bills:

         4                  Senate Print 7678, by the Senate

         5       Committee on Rules, an act to amend the

         6       Education Law;

         7                  7686, by Senator Dilan, an act to

         8       amend the State Finance Law; and

         9                  Senate Print 7689, by the Senate

        10       Committee on Rules, an act making

        11       appropriations for the support of government.

        12                  All bills ordered direct to third

        13       reading.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    All

        15       those in favor of adopting the Rules Committee

        16       report please signify by saying aye.

        17                  (Response of "Aye.")

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        19       Opposed, nay.

        20                  (No response.)

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        22       Rules Committee report is adopted.

        23                  Senator Klein.

        24                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President,

        25       can we please go to a reading of the calendar



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         1       at this time.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         3       Secretary will read.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         5       123, by Member of the Assembly Lancman,

         6       Assembly Print Number 2374A, an act to amend

         7       the Judiciary Law.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

         9       the last section.

        10                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Lay it aside.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        12       bill is laid aside.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        14       315, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, Senate Print

        15       7129B, an act to amend Chapter 118 of the Laws

        16       of 1969.

        17                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Lay it aside.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        19       bill is laid aside.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        21       346, by Senator Onorato, Senate Print 7053, an

        22       act to amend the Labor Law.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        24       the last section.

        25                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This



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         1       act shall take effect immediately.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

         3       the roll.

         4                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         6       Announce the results.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         9       bill is passed.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        11       402, by Member of the Assembly Destito,

        12       Assembly Print Number 8313A, an act to amend

        13       the Executive Law.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        15       the last section.

        16                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        17       act shall take effect immediately.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        19       the roll.

        20                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        22       Announce the results.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        25       bill is passed.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         2       403, by Member of the Assembly DelMonte --

         3                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Lay the bill

         4       aside for the day, please.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         6       bill is laid aside for the day.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         8       405, by Member of the Assembly Latimer --

         9                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Lay the bill

        10       aside for the day, please.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        12       bill is laid aside for the day.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        14       408, by Member of the Assembly Abbate,

        15       Assembly Print Number 7173, an act to amend

        16       the Executive Law.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        18       the last section.

        19                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        20       act shall take effect immediately.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        22       the roll.

        23                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        25       Announce the results.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         3       bill is passed.

         4                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         5       409, by Member of the Assembly Rosenthal,

         6       Assembly Print Number 5655, an act to amend

         7       the Energy Law.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

         9       the last section.

        10                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        11       act shall take effect immediately.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        13       the roll.

        14                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        16       Announce the results.

        17                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        19       bill is passed.

        20                  Senator Klein, that completes the

        21       reading of the noncontroversial calendar.

        22                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President,

        23       can we please go to a reading of the

        24       controversial calendar.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The



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         1       Secretary will ring the bell.

         2                  The Secretary will read.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         4       123, by Member of the Assembly Lancman,

         5       Assembly Print Number 2374A, an act to amend

         6       the Judiciary Law.

         7                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Will the

         8       sponsor explain the bill, please?

         9       Explanation.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        11       Senator Klein, Senator Bonacic has requested

        12       an explanation.

        13                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes,

        14       Mr. President.

        15                  This legislation requires each

        16       commissioner of jurors, one for each county,

        17       to collect demographic information on the

        18       jurors who present for jury service.  Some of

        19       the information could include but is not

        20       limited to a juror's age, ethnicity, age and

        21       sex.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        23       Senator Bonacic.

        24                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Will the

        25       sponsor yield for a couple of questions?



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         2       Senator Klein, do you yield to Senator

         3       Bonacic?

         4                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes,

         5       Mr. President.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         7       Senator Bonacic.

         8                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Senator Klein,

         9       I'm under the impression that the Office of

        10       Court Administration is doing this now.  Is

        11       this something different than what they're

        12       doing in the jury pool when they come in?

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        14       Senator Klein.

        15                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Through you,

        16       Mr. President.  To my knowledge, in my

        17       office's conversation with the Office of Court

        18       Administration, they're not doing this.  And

        19       they support this specific legislation.

        20                  I think what you're getting at are

        21       the broader terms that were used in the

        22       original bill before the bill was amended,

        23       they were opposed to.  But they support this

        24       legislation.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:



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         1       Senator Bonacic.

         2                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Can I ask

         3       Senator Klein one more question?

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Will

         5       you yield to an additional question, Senator

         6       Klein?

         7                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes,

         8       Mr. President.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        10       Senator Bonacic.

        11                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Senator Klein,

        12       when all of this information is finally

        13       collected, what is the end game?  What's the

        14       next step?

        15                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Well, a study put

        16       out several years ago which showed that this

        17       was a problem, that most juries and some

        18       juries around the state, specifically

        19       downstate, don't reflect adequately the people

        20       who live there.

        21                  So this is a way to finally have

        22       this information, which was never collected

        23       before, done in a very easy way by just adding

        24       another checkoff box on the existing

        25       questionnaires that they distribute, and then



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         1       we can determine how we can potentially open

         2       up the jury pool that much further.

         3                  Right now we're limited to voter

         4       registration and other means as far as the

         5       ways we get information or the way we can

         6       actually pick jurors from specific lists.  So

         7       I guess in the long run we can see if the

         8       claims that have been talked about are

         9       actually warranted.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        11       Senator Bonacic.

        12                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Another

        13       question, Senator Klein?

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        15       Senator Klein, will you yield to an additional

        16       question?

        17                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Yes,

        18       Mr. President.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        20       Senator Bonacic.

        21                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Okay, I want to

        22       make sure I understand this.  If I live in a

        23       county where I have 25 percent of my

        24       population is Asian, 25 percent is

        25       Afro-American, 25 percent is Hispanic, and the



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         1       other 25 percent is Caucasian, is it the

         2       ultimate goal, when we have a jury of 12, that

         3       we have three members from each of those

         4       races?  Would that be the ideal goal of

         5       eventually where we want to go with this

         6       information?

         7                  SENATOR KLEIN:    I don't think

         8       that's what the goal is, Senator.  But I do

         9       believe that once we have this information --

        10       and by the way, this legislation is only going

        11       to require that we gather this information to

        12       see if a lot of the claims that are out there

        13       and the studies that we've seen in the past

        14       are warranted.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        16       Senator Bonacic.

        17                  SENATOR BONACIC:    Okay, on the

        18       bill.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        20       Senator Bonacic, on the bill.

        21                  SENATOR BONACIC:    I'm not going

        22       to support this legislation for a variety of

        23       reasons.

        24                  Number one, the courts have held

        25       just recently, on March 30th of this year, in



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         1       Berghuis v. Smith, that unless you can show

         2       there's systematic exclusion in your minority

         3       pool, then it makes no difference what your

         4       jury composition is.  And there have been

         5       attacks on verdicts because of racial

         6       composition, and therefore the verdict should

         7       be set aside.

         8                  And I don't generally support that

         9       policy.  I think regardless of the racial

        10       composition, we're basically Americans.  We

        11       can come together on a jury deliberation, in a

        12       common goal, and do justice.  So I don't like

        13       the basis of why you're collecting the

        14       information.

        15                  And the second thing is the courts

        16       have held if there's no attempt at systematic

        17       exclusion, regardless of what the racial

        18       composition of the jury is, you can't set the

        19       verdict aside.

        20                  For example, it's hard to get

        21       people to come to jury pools.  They're busy.

        22       And for some reason the commissioner of jurors

        23       sends out these subpoenas to a generally

        24       Afro-American community, and 95 percent of the

        25       minority pool is Afro-American.  And that jury



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         1       is all Afro-American, and there is an Asian or

         2       a Caucasian or a Hispanic being tried.  And

         3       the verdict is -- they come together and they

         4       make the verdict based on the facts to render

         5       justice.

         6                  The court decision here, the

         7       Supreme Court in the case that I cited, just

         8       five weeks ago said unless can you prove

         9       there's a systematic exclusion on how you've

        10       put the people in the jury pool, it's never

        11       going to support a motion to set aside a

        12       verdict on racial composition.

        13                  So I think this is an exercise in

        14       futility.  The courts just recently are

        15       closing the door on it.  And to suggest that

        16       the racial composition has got to reflect the

        17       population of the county, it undercuts who

        18       Americans are and how they can come together

        19       and render justice.  For that reason, I'm

        20       voting no.

        21                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        23       you, Senator Bonacic.

        24                  Are there any other Senators

        25       wishing to be heard?



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         1                  Hearing none, the Secretary will

         2       ring the bell.  Members are asked to come to

         3       the chamber for the vote.

         4                  Read the last section.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 3.  This

         6       act shall take effect on the 90th day.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

         8       the roll.

         9                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        11       Senator Klein, to explain his vote.

        12                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Thank you,

        13       Mr. President.

        14                  I just want to make sure my

        15       colleagues are clear that, you know, this

        16       legislation is not mandating any expansion of

        17       any jury pool.  It's just requiring more

        18       information be gathered to see more ways we

        19       can get more and more people eligible to be

        20       jurors.

        21                  I think that certainly should be

        22       the intent, based on a 2006 Citizen Action

        23       study which showed that many people aren't

        24       participating in the jury process.

        25                  So I think the combination of



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         1       having more information at the disposal of the

         2       OCA can only help in getting more and more

         3       people involved in the jury process.  So of

         4       course I vote yes, Mr. President.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         6       you, Senator Klein.

         7                  Senator Klein will be recorded in

         8       the affirmative.

         9                  Senator Farley, to explain his

        10       vote.

        11                  SENATOR FARLEY:    Before I explain

        12       my vote, I'd just like to complain how long it

        13       takes to get somebody to be able to vote on

        14       this.  I wish the members would be in their

        15       seats so that they could vote.  We wait and

        16       wait and wait for them to come to the chamber.

        17                  I'm going to vote up on this bill.

        18       But I do have some concerns that perhaps this

        19       could be just another example of where the

        20       court could change its mind in saying the jury

        21       pool was not reflective of the community or

        22       something and therefore we need a new trial.

        23                  But I will vote aye.  But again,

        24       Mr. President, I wish you could get them in

        25       the room faster on a vote.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    I'll

         2       do my best, Senator Farley.

         3                  Senator Farley to be recorded in

         4       the affirmative.

         5                  Announce the results.

         6                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

         7       the negative on Calendar Number 123 are

         8       Senators Bonacic, Flanagan, Golden, Griffo,

         9       O. Johnson, Lanza, Larkin, LaValle, Leibell,

        10       Little, Nozzolio, Padavan, Saland, Skelos,

        11       Volker and Young.

        12                  Ayes, 44.  Nays, 16.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        14       bill is passed.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        16       315, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, Senate Print

        17       7129B, an act to amend Chapter 118 of the Laws

        18       of 1969, relating to a separate union free

        19       school district.

        20                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Explanation.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        22       Senator Stewart-Cousins, an explanation has

        23       been requested.

        24                  SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS:    Thank

        25       you, Mr. President.



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         1                  This is a bill that would allow the

         2       Greenburgh North Castle Union Free School

         3       District to establish -- which is, by the way

         4       a Special Acts District -- to establish a

         5       school for special needs children in Orange

         6       County.  It is hoped that about 155 residents

         7       will be served by this school.

         8                  It is cosponsored by Senator

         9       Larkin, who represents Orange County.  And I

        10       think he would certainly attest to the need

        11       for --

        12                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Explanation

        13       satisfactory.

        14                  SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS:    Was

        15       that enough?

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        17       you very much, Senator Stewart-Cousins.

        18                  Are there any other Senators

        19       wishing to be heard?

        20                  Hearing none, the Secretary will

        21       ring the bell.

        22                  Read the last section.

        23                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 4.  This

        24       act shall take effect immediately.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call



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         1       the roll.

         2                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         4       Announce the results.

         5                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 60.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         7       bill is passed.

         8                  Senator Klein, that completes the

         9       reading of the controversial calendar.

        10                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, at

        11       this time can we please go to a reading of the

        12       supplemental calendar.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        14       Secretary will read the supplemental calendar.

        15                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        16       475, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        17       Print 7678, an act to amend the Education Law.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

        19       the last section.

        20                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 18.  This

        21       act shall --

        22                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Lay it

        23       aside.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        25       bill is laid aside.



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         1                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

         2       477, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

         3       Print 7689, an act making appropriations for

         4       the support of government.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Read

         6       the last section.

         7                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Lay it aside.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         9       bill is laid aside.

        10                  Senator Klein, that completes the

        11       reading of the noncontroversial supplemental

        12       calendar.

        13                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President,

        14       can we please go to a reading of the

        15       controversial supplemental calendar.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        17       Secretary will read.

        18                  THE SECRETARY:    Calendar Number

        19       475, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate

        20       Print 7678, an act to amend the Education Law.

        21                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Explanation.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    An

        23       explanation has been requested, Senator Smith.

        24                  SENATOR SMITH:    Thank you very

        25       much, Mr. President.



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         1                  This bill is an act that amends the

         2       Education Law in relation to the powers and

         3       the duties of Boards of Cooperative

         4       Educational Services, to the operation and

         5       management of and enrollment at charter

         6       schools, and to increasing the cap on the

         7       number of charter schools.

         8                  This bill, Mr. President, increases

         9       the cap that strengthens our ability for Race

        10       to the Top, it makes services for high-needs

        11       students a critical part of the process, gives

        12       priorities to students with special needs,

        13       requires open board meetings for transparency

        14       and accountability, prevents conflicts of

        15       interest, requires public reports to be

        16       reported, and also has a common application

        17       process that develops a standard.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        19       you, Senator Smith.

        20                  Senator Liz Krueger, on the bill.

        21                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        22       Mr. President.

        23                  Will the sponsor yield to a

        24       question?

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:



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         1       Senator Smith, will you yield to a question

         2       from Senator Krueger?

         3                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes, I will,

         4       Mr. President.

         5                  And, Mr. President, I also ask that

         6       Senator Craig Johnson, who is also a

         7       cooperating person on the bill with me, will

         8       be available for questions as well.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        10       you, Senator Smith.

        11                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        12       Senator Smith, I understood your explanation,

        13       but there's a lot of details in this bill.

        14       And because it didn't go through the Education

        15       Committee, the Senate didn't really have a

        16       chance to review fully all of the changes to

        17       state law that would be applied if this became

        18       law.

        19                  Can you just clarify for me what

        20       the role of for-profit corporations and

        21       management companies would be in both

        22       operating charter schools and also overseeing

        23       the evaluation of charter schools?

        24                  SENATOR SMITH:    Right.  In this

        25       particular bill, Mr. President, this bill does



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         1       not address the change in management of

         2       private corporations.  However, Mr. President,

         3       the bill does allow for for-profit

         4       corporations to manage charter schools with

         5       regard to curriculum, with regards to the

         6       management of their employees such as teachers

         7       and maintenance.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         9       Senator Krueger.

        10                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        11       Through you, Mr. President, if the sponsor

        12       would continue to yield.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        14       Senator Smith, will you continue to yield?

        15                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes, Mr.

        16       President.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You

        18       may proceed, Senator Krueger.

        19                  SENATOR KRUEGER:    Thank you very

        20       much.  So as I understand it, for-profit

        21       companies could manage charter schools, or run

        22       them, and they could in fact be responsible

        23       for the evaluations of them.

        24                  Under this bill, either explicitly

        25       or not dealt with in the bill, could I be a



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         1       staff and/or board member of a for-profit

         2       charter school but also be the separate

         3       for-profit company evaluating the outcomes in

         4       the charter school?  Would that be allowed?

         5                  SENATOR SMITH:    Well, Mr.

         6       President, through you, Mr. President, there

         7       is the conflict of interest portion of this

         8       bill which is very critical with regard to

         9       those type of challenges.  And I believe that

        10       portion addresses her concern with regard to

        11       conflict of interest.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        13       Senator Krueger.

        14                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        15       Mr. President.  If the sponsor would still

        16       continue to yield.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Do you

        18       continue to yield, Senator Smith?

        19                  SENATOR SMITH:    Absolutely,

        20       Mr. President.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You

        22       may proceed, Senator Krueger.

        23                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you

        24       very much.

        25                  There was a previous bill that was



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         1       actually what we recall of S6468, which

         2       sometimes is called the Sampson/Silver Charter

         3       School Bill.  And this bill has many of the

         4       same sections but a number of changes or

         5       exclusions from the previous bill.

         6                  Can you explain to me how this bill

         7       deals with the question of co-location of

         8       charters and public schools and

         9       decision-making over where the schools will be

        10       located, what happens if the existing public

        11       school believes that it is not able to

        12       accommodate an additional school or multiple

        13       schools run by people in the same building?

        14       How does this bill address those problems?

        15                  SENATOR SMITH:    Through you,

        16       Mr. President, this particular bill does not

        17       address the issue of co-location.  It leaves

        18       it as it was in the former charter school

        19       bills.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        21       Senator Krueger.

        22                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        23       Mr. President.  If the sponsor would please

        24       continue to yield.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Would



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         1       you continue to yield, Senator Smith?

         2                  SENATOR SMITH:    Absolutely,

         3       Mr. President.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You

         5       may proceed.

         6                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Mr.

         7       President, through you.  This bill says that

         8       it would permit authorizing entities to grant

         9       approval for the board of a single charter

        10       school to offer a single grade at multiple

        11       sites, with each additional site counted

        12       against the cap.

        13                  I don't quite understand this.  Are

        14       we talking about physically a school being all

        15       fifth grade, a school being all fourth grade,

        16       a school -- how does that -- I don't

        17       understand that.  Could you explain that,

        18       please?

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        20       Senator Smith.

        21                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes, through you,

        22       Mr. President.  That reference that she is

        23       talking about with regard to lock sites is a

        24       charter school actually operating a particular

        25       grade at one site and at another site.  And



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         1       that would also account for -- toward the cap,

         2       if you will.

         3                  The challenge that charter schools

         4       have now which we are trying to address in

         5       this bill has to do with multiple locations as

         6       well as trying to deal with charters in

         7       particular where they are sited.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         9       Senator Krueger.

        10                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        11       Mr. President.  Through you, if the sponsor

        12       would continue to yield.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Will

        14       you continue to yield, Senator Smith?

        15                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes,

        16       Mr. President.

        17                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    So it's

        18       also my understanding that through this bill

        19       there could somehow be some connection between

        20       multiple charter schools for different not

        21       necessarily grades but the categories of

        22       school.  So we usually define K through 5,

        23       then 5 through 8 are middle school, then a

        24       high school.

        25                  At least in the City of New York



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         1       right now, you would apply through a lottery

         2       for the elementary charter school, and then

         3       the assumption is you would apply separately

         4       for a lottery into a middle school and/or a

         5       high school.  How would this work under this

         6       bill for providing that people can take the

         7       opportunity to apply to charters at different

         8       grade levels?

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        10       Senator Smith.

        11                  SENATOR SMITH:    Thank you very

        12       much, Mr. President.

        13                  With regard to the question by my

        14       colleague as it relates to multiple locations,

        15       the challenge with the charter schools that we

        16       addressed earlier has to do with multiple

        17       locations.  And if she's referencing -- and I

        18       have a question of her if she's referencing

        19       zone versus district.

        20                  Is that what you're referring to?

        21                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Well, I

        22       understand the difference between zone and

        23       district, at least as it applies to New York

        24       City.  We have zone elementary schools and we

        25       have zone middle schools, but we don't have



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         1       zone high schools.

         2                  But I think in the example I was

         3       asking you if there was a charter school --

         4       oh, I don't know, the Liz Krueger For-Profit

         5       Charter School Corporation that had 10

         6       different schools.  They would each apply one

         7       for the cap, so you'd have 10 schools counted

         8       toward the cap.  But in this corporation I

         9       might want children to start with my system

        10       and then keep moving through my system.

        11                  Is that possible, or is there a

        12       model where other children might attempt to

        13       apply to the school, some in kindergarten,

        14       some in the first grade, some at the

        15       middle-school level, some at the high-school?

        16       How would this work?

        17                  SENATOR SMITH:    Through you,

        18       Mr. President, many parents are concerned with

        19       their children when they go into these charter

        20       schools if in fact they can continue on and

        21       not have to go into the public school system.

        22                  In addition, when you have an

        23       operator of a school that operates the school

        24       well, as opposed to having to apply for

        25       another charter application, which is a very



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         1       cumbersome process, this bill allows for that

         2       particular operator to open additional schools

         3       under the performance of their current

         4       charter, which we assume is doing well, which

         5       is why it's been extended.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         7       Senator Krueger.

         8                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

         9       Mr. President.  If the sponsor would continue

        10       to yield.

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Do you

        12       continue to yield, Senator Smith?

        13                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes, sir,

        14       Mr. President.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        16       Senator Krueger.

        17                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    As I

        18       understand your explanation, Senator, under

        19       this bill, if this became law, a private

        20       corporation, the Liz Krueger Charter School

        21       Corporation, could have as many schools as a

        22       public school system in any specific area.

        23       Granted, in the City of New York, with 1100

        24       public schools, obviously that couldn't be the

        25       case, because there's even in your bill a



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         1       maximum I believe of 460 charter schools or

         2       somewhere close to that.

         3                  But in a relatively smaller

         4       geographic area -- say, Albany -- is it

         5       conceivable that over time you could have one

         6       company running a school system equal in size

         7       to the public school system?

         8                  SENATOR SMITH:    Through you,

         9       Mr. President, I believe the bill has parts of

        10       it that will not allow that to happen.

        11                  However, we also know the

        12       authorizer would have to grant that.  And we

        13       suspect the authorizer would have a good eye

        14       and overview of that process to make sure it

        15       didn't occur.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        17       Senator Krueger.

        18                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        19       Mr. President.  If the sponsor would continue

        20       to yield.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Do you

        22       continue to yield, Senator Smith.

        23                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes,

        24       Mr. President.

        25                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.



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         1       There was also some confusion, perhaps, about

         2       the treatment of both special-needs

         3       populations in this bill compared to existing

         4       charter law and rules for English-as-a-second-

         5       language students, this bill, to previous

         6       charter law.  So I'll try to take it apart.

         7                  Under existing charter law, what

         8       are the requirements for serving children with

         9       special needs or educational -- so sorry.  The

        10       term is -- it's three letters.  It involves

        11       children who have special -- IEPs.  Thank you

        12       very much, Chair Oppenheimer.

        13                  So there's one rule under current

        14       law about treatment for children with IEP, and

        15       I believe that changes in this law.  Can you

        16       explain how it changes?

        17                  SENATOR SMITH:    Through you,

        18       Mr. President.  Under existing law, we are

        19       required, charter schools are required to

        20       service that population.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        22       Senator Krueger.

        23                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

        24       Mr. President.  If, through you, the sponsor

        25       would continue to yield.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Do you

         2       continue to yield, Senator Smith?

         3                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes,

         4       Mr. President.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You

         6       may proceed, Senator Krueger.

         7                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    As I read

         8       the new bill, they would be required to serve

         9       at least 50 percent of children with

        10       disabilities and English-language learners as

        11       a ratio of the percentage of those children in

        12       the school district or zone.  So as I'm

        13       reading the law under your bill, charter

        14       schools would have to serve at least

        15       50 percent of the children, not 50 percent of

        16       the children in their school.

        17                  But if -- I'll make this up.  I'm

        18       already the for-profit company, so I can't be

        19       the school district.  So in the Malcolm Smith

        20       School District, if 20 percent of the children

        21       are defined as special needs and 20 percent of

        22       the children are defined as ELL, English

        23       language learners, that means that under your

        24       law any charter school would have to be

        25       serving at least 10 percent special needs and



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         1       10 percent ELL?  Is that a correct analysis?

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         3       Senator Smith.

         4                  SENATOR SMITH:    Thank you,

         5       Mr. President.  Through you, Mr. President,

         6       this particular bill allows charter schools to

         7       give admission preference to students with

         8       disabilities and students who are

         9       English-language learners and mandates

        10       enrollment preference for charter schools

        11       serving under half of the percentage of

        12       students in the school district or the

        13       community district in which that charter

        14       school is located.

        15                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Through

        16       you, Mr. President, if the sponsor would

        17       continue to yield.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Will

        19       you continue to yield, Senator Smith, to

        20       Senator Krueger?

        21                  SENATOR SMITH:    Absolutely,

        22       Mr. President.

        23                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    I believe

        24       you were agreeing with me.  So I just want to

        25       double-check that the charter schools would



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         1       have to serve at least 50 percent of the

         2       students with these definitions in any given

         3       district.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         5       Senator Smith.

         6                  SENATOR SMITH:    Through you,

         7       Mr. President, not necessarily agreeing, but

         8       they would have to give a preference, as I

         9       formerly stated.

        10                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    I'm sorry,

        11       I didn't hear you.

        12                  SENATOR SMITH:    That's a

        13       designated preference, as I formerly stated.

        14                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    As a

        15       designated preference.  So --

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        17       Senator Krueger.

        18                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        19       Excuse me, Mr. President.  Through you, if the

        20       sponsor would continue to yield.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Do you

        22       continue to yield, Senator Smith?

        23                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes,

        24       Mr. President.

        25                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.



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         1                  So again, let's go back to my

         2       hypothesis that in any given geographic area

         3       there might be a large enough number of

         4       charter schools to not necessarily equal but

         5       come close to equalling the number of public

         6       schools.  But under this law, the charter

         7       schools would only have an obligation to

         8       provide preference for admission for half the

         9       number of children in these categories,

        10       children who have special needs and/or

        11       children with ELL needs.

        12                  So does that mean in the public

        13       schools, by definition, they would end up with

        14       double the percentage of children with special

        15       needs and with ELL needs?

        16                  SENATOR SMITH:    Through you,

        17       Mr. President.  Her assumptions are correct.

        18       But remember, Mr. President, there is a

        19       lottery.  And these students also could be

        20       accepted through the lottery as well.

        21                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        22       Senator Krueger.

        23                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        24       Thank you very much.  If the sponsor would

        25       continue to yield.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Do you

         2       continue to yield, Senator Smith?

         3                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes,

         4       Mr. President.

         5                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    So again,

         6       my understanding -- you're right, it's a

         7       lottery, it could be a hundred percent of the

         8       children with special needs and/or a hundred

         9       percent of the children who are ELL that could

        10       be accepted through the lottery.  But the

        11       mandate is only up to 50 percent.

        12                  And so I believe that my math is

        13       right that it could leave the public school

        14       system with dramatically greater percentages

        15       of children with special needs and

        16       dramatically greater percentages of children

        17       who have English as a second language issues

        18       that need to be resolved.  Is that your

        19       understanding also?

        20                  SENATOR SMITH:    Through you,

        21       Mr. President.  Yes, Mr. President, for my

        22       colleagues as well as many of the advocates

        23       and those who even oppose the bill, whether

        24       it's the UFT or NYSUT, that was a big concern

        25       of many of them.  There were no basic



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         1       requirements before.  And in trying to address

         2       their particular needs, we move that up to a

         3       percentage, yes.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         5       Senator Krueger.

         6                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         7       If, through you, Mr. President, the sponsor

         8       would continue to yield.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        10       Senator Smith, do you continue to yield?

        11                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes,

        12       Mr. President.

        13                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        14                  My understanding also from this

        15       bill is that it would allow charter schools to

        16       provide alternative sites for children with

        17       special needs, either for services for

        18       children with special needs or an entirely

        19       separate school for children with special

        20       needs.

        21                  Could you clarify that for me?

        22                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes,

        23       Mr. President.  Yes, it would do so.  But this

        24       is in the spirit of the concern about

        25       saturation.  And by giving the charter school



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         1       the ability to have other locations, other

         2       sites, it will obviously ameliorate some of

         3       that concern about pressing the students that

         4       are in that current location against the wall

         5       in terms of space and location, being

         6       sensitive to that need.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         8       Senator Krueger.

         9                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        10                  And certainly there are justifiable

        11       reasons to have special services for children

        12       with special needs off-site or subcontracted.

        13       And obviously in the public school system we

        14       even sometimes separate out children with

        15       special needs into separate buildings and

        16       separate schools, and I certainly recognize

        17       that from the City of New York.

        18                  But under this law, could the

        19       following scenario happen?  A consortium of

        20       separate charters that are each approved

        21       individually under the cap, and approved by

        22       either -- by one of the, I guess, two options

        23       we're keeping in place with this bill, a

        24       Regents approval or a SUNY approval process --

        25       could a group of charters who are not



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         1       otherwise related from a corporate perspective

         2       pool all of their special needs children into

         3       some other location somewhere outside all of

         4       their buildings?

         5                  SENATOR SMITH:    Through you,

         6       Mr. President.  No, I don't believe so.  But

         7       that was also assumed that there would be that

         8       kind of interest to do such, and I doubt

         9       charter operators would do so.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        11       Senator Krueger.

        12                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    If through

        13       you, Mr. President, the sponsor would continue

        14       to yield.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Do you

        16       continue to yield, Senator Smith?

        17                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes,

        18       Mr. President.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You

        20       may proceed.

        21                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Mr.

        22       President, I read the bill and it seemed to me

        23       fairly vague about whether or not charter

        24       schools could do that, which is why I'm very

        25       concerned.



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         1                  And so I'll ask the sponsor again,

         2       what in the bill would prevent that situation

         3       from happening?  Let's say in the City of

         4       New York the charter schools from throughout a

         5       fairly large geographic area, five boroughs,

         6       8.5 million people, making the determination

         7       that they were going to find one, two, three

         8       locations and define them as the places where

         9       these special needs children go to so that

        10       they've met their state obligation but don't

        11       actually have, then, what we define I think

        12       more as a normal community-based public school

        13       where children with diverse needs and at

        14       different levels of learning all get served

        15       together.  Your bill doesn't stop that.

        16                  SENATOR SMITH:    Through you,

        17       Mr. President.  Yes, obviously the schools

        18       have to still follow IP rules.  But more

        19       importantly, what would make sure that

        20       wouldn't happen is we still are required to

        21       follow federal law.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        23       Senator Krueger.

        24                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        25       Through you, Mr. President.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Will

         2       you continue to yield, Senator Smith?

         3                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes.  Absolutely,

         4       Mr. President.

         5                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         6                  Under your bill, who's reviewing

         7       the charter schools to make sure that they are

         8       meeting the requirements of the law both on

         9       acceptance, on services provided, on outcomes,

        10       on the money, the public money being spent and

        11       accounted for?  What's the process for that?

        12                  SENATOR SMITH:    There is -- one,

        13       Mr. President, they're required under this

        14       bill to provide public reports on that.  Two,

        15       obviously you have the Regents as well as

        16       SUNY, and then you have the localities over a

        17       million.

        18                  And more importantly,

        19       Mr. President, these charters, as they have

        20       done, their boards, in addition.  But what's

        21       critical for this, Mr. President, is the

        22       accountability and transparency that's in here

        23       that's required, similar to the public school

        24       system.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:



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         1       Senator Krueger.

         2                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

         3       Mr. President.  If the sponsor would continue

         4       to yield.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Will

         6       you continue to yield, Senator Smith?

         7                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes.

         8                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         9                  Could publicly traded companies run

        10       charter schools under this law?

        11                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        12       Senator Smith.

        13                  SENATOR SMITH:    Through you,

        14       Mr. President, no.

        15                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    I'm sorry I

        16       didn't hear.  Excuse me.

        17                  SENATOR SMITH:    No, not that I'm

        18       aware of.

        19                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    No, they

        20       couldn't?

        21                  SENATOR SMITH:    Not that I'm

        22       aware of.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        24       Senator Krueger.

        25                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Through



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         1       you, Mr. President, if the sponsor would

         2       continue to yield.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Do you

         4       continue to yield, Senator Smith?

         5                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes,

         6       Mr. President.

         7                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Since the

         8       bill doesn't explicitly lay out the

         9       definitions of a for-profit corporation or

        10       management company, how do we know a publicly

        11       traded company couldn't run charter schools?

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        13       Senator Smith.

        14                  SENATOR SMITH:    Mr. President,

        15       that is why we have our overseers, such as

        16       SUNY, Board of Regents, in addition to the

        17       charter's board as well.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        19       Senator Krueger.

        20                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Through

        21       you, Mr. President, if the sponsor would

        22       continue to yield.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        24       Senator Smith?

        25                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes,



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         1       Mr. President.

         2                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         3                  So you listed out a number of

         4       entities who might or could or would evaluate

         5       how the money is spent, how the students are

         6       doing, how the students are accepted, whether

         7       there's retention, whether they're moved

         8       off-campus to some other sites.  Is there no

         9       role for the State Comptroller or, in the City

        10       of New York, the City Comptroller in actually

        11       looking at how these monies are spent and

        12       these children are educated?

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        14       Senator Smith.

        15                  SENATOR SMITH:    Through you,

        16       Mr. President, we know the Appellate Court,

        17       Mr. President, has made a ruling on that, and

        18       obviously we understand what that position

        19       was.

        20                  But it is clear that the

        21       Comptroller has the right and has the

        22       authority to audit charter schools if he so

        23       chooses to.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        25       Senator Krueger.



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         1                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,

         2       Mr. President.  If the sponsor will continue

         3       to yield.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Do you

         5       continue to yield, Senator Smith?

         6                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes, absolutely.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         8       Senator Krueger.

         9                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        10                  Can you just clarify again this

        11       50 percent versus 75 percent lottery

        12       application process and how that works?

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        14       Senator Smith.

        15                  SENATOR SMITH:    Through you,

        16       Mr. President, I was just conferring with

        17       counsel.

        18                  And what my colleague is referring

        19       to is once the schools hit a 50 percent

        20       enrollment piece of special ed students in

        21       surrounding areas, at that point they are

        22       allowed to -- until they get to 75 percent, I

        23       should say -- at that point, right, then

        24       they're allowed to?

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:



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         1       Senator Krueger.

         2                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    I'm sorry,

         3       I have to ask the Senator to repeat himself.

         4       Either I didn't hear or I didn't quite

         5       understand.

         6                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Would

         7       you repeat your answer, Senator Smith?

         8                  SENATOR SMITH:    The question was

         9       the 50 percent/75 percent enrollment; correct?

        10       Fifty percent enrollment of special ed

        11       students around them.  Once we hit that mark,

        12       then that's when we'll -- and when we get to

        13       75 percent, we're allowed to go back to the

        14       50 percent.  That's as simple as it is.

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        16       Senator Krueger.

        17                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        18       Maybe there's another interpretation, so I

        19       will -- I also believe there's some attempt in

        20       this bill -- excuse me.  Through you,

        21       Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue

        22       to yield.

        23                  SENATOR SMITH:    Absolutely.

        24                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you

        25       very much.  There was also something about if



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         1       the schools had failed to meet their

         2       obligation to hit the 50 percent mark for

         3       serving the special-needs children and

         4       children with English-language needs, that

         5       their target would be raised to 75 percent.

         6       Am I misunderstanding that portion of the

         7       bill?

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         9       Senator Smith.

        10                  SENATOR SMITH:    Yes, through you,

        11       Mr. President, if I can just read that section

        12       of the bill my colleague is referring to.

        13                  It simply requires that charter

        14       schools which are found to be serving less

        15       than 50 percent of the population of students

        16       with disabilities and English-language

        17       learners represented in the school district of

        18       the location to automatically admit students

        19       in these subgroups outside of the lottery

        20       until all applicants are admitted or the

        21       population reaches 75 percent, to give you a

        22       little more language.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        24       Senator Krueger.

        25                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you,



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         1       Mr. President.  If the sponsor would please

         2       continue to yield.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Do you

         4       continue to yield, Senator Smith?

         5                  SENATOR SMITH:    Of course,

         6       Mr. President.

         7                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         8                  SENATOR SMITH:    Mr. President,

         9       just to ask my colleague that I'm probably

        10       going to refer to Craig Johnson.  There is

        11       something I have to take care of off the

        12       floor.  So I will take a few more questions

        13       and then Senator Johnson.

        14                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        15       I think I only have a few more questions,

        16       Senator.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        18       Senator Krueger.

        19                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    So on this

        20       issue I understand how you evaluate the

        21       population for a school when we're talking

        22       about elementary schools, at least in the City

        23       of New York, where we have what's called zone

        24       schools.  But in my understanding, in the bill

        25       the zone for high schools -- so for charter



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         1       high schools, under this law, the zone would

         2       be the City of New York.  So how would this

         3       50 percent be applied to lotteries for high

         4       schools in the City of New York?

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         6       Senator Smith.

         7                  SENATOR SMITH:    Thank you,

         8       Mr. President.  One moment.

         9                  Thank you, Mr. President.  Through

        10       you, Mr. President, they would have to reach

        11       the citywide total.  They would have to reach

        12       the citywide total.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        14       Senator Krueger.

        15                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

        16                  Sorry, just thinking.  I know other

        17       people have additional questions so I don't

        18       want to take up everyone's time.

        19                  I guess on the bill, Mr. President.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        21       you, Senator Smith.

        22                  Senator Krueger on the bill.

        23                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you

        24       very much.  Thank you for your responses,

        25       Senator.  And I feel that I will have more



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         1       questions, but I won't take up the time on the

         2       floor.

         3                  Here's my dilemma today.  I'm not

         4       an opponent of charter schools by definition,

         5       and I think that they can be excellent

         6       alternatives for public schools.  But I also

         7       worry about going too far too fast.

         8                  I'm not concerned about raising the

         9       cap.  And my understanding is that for Race to

        10       the Top issues, which we also must confront in

        11       this Legislature within the next few weeks,

        12       the only portion of this bill that applies to

        13       the debate around the Race to the Top federal

        14       funds is the cap.  Everything else in this

        15       bill is a separate discussion and not relevant

        16       for being approved or not being approved for

        17       federal money.

        18                  I'm frustrated that we're not

        19       sitting either around a table somewhere or on

        20       the floor of the Legislature today discussing

        21       what we need to do to change our laws to

        22       assure that we can compete for Round 2 Race to

        23       the Top money, because it's up to

        24       $700 million.  And most of us are pretty

        25       simple about these things:  If there's federal



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         1       money to be gotten, we would like to get it

         2       here in New York State.  And we certainly need

         3       it for our public school system.

         4                  But I just want to go on record, I

         5       do not see this bill as a bill that resolves

         6       our Race to the Top legislative assignment.

         7       And so I worry that this pulls us off the

         8       discussion that is very time-sensitive and

         9       pulls us off the questions about changing a

        10       cap to a whole new scenario of accountability

        11       or a lack thereof when talking about spending

        12       what may be greater and greater amounts of

        13       public education money in a system -- with all

        14       due respect to the Senator, the sponsor of

        15       bill -- that we don't have enough answers for.

        16                  The language is too vague.  The

        17       question of whether for-profit companies who

        18       are publicly traded can in fact run our school

        19       system; the question of whether the people who

        20       are good at doing audits, the comptrollers of

        21       the state and of counties and of the City of

        22       New York, have a role to play in evaluating

        23       what is going on with public monies; the

        24       concern -- and it's a big concern for me --

        25       that the same entities or the same people who



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         1       might run these charter school companies might

         2       also run the companies who are assigned to do

         3       the evaluation of the charter schools.

         4                  It has been brought to my attention

         5       in my raising concerns over the last few

         6       days -- because we've only had a couple of

         7       days to look at the bill -- that the same

         8       complaints can be made of the public school

         9       system and that we need to reform the public

        10       school system.  So, for the record, no

        11       disagreement.  We need to do better with our

        12       public school system also.

        13                  But I am very concerned that not

        14       dealing with that question and not dealing

        15       with the Race to the Top question, we're here

        16       on the floor of the Senate being asked to vote

        17       for or against a bill that doesn't have enough

        18       answers to the real concerns I have about

        19       accountability:  Accountability for the money,

        20       accountability for who will be running the

        21       schools, accountability for who will close

        22       down the bad charters -- because all the

        23       research shows and recent newspaper stories

        24       show there are good charters and there are bad

        25       charters.  And I don't see anything in this



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         1       bill that makes more explicit than current law

         2       what can be done and who has the authority to

         3       take a school that isn't working and close it

         4       down.

         5                  And I was hoping that the next time

         6       this house dealt with the question of

         7       expanding charters or defining reform of

         8       charter schools, that that would be up front

         9       and central for us:  Who had the authority to

        10       say, No, it's not working, we don't care if

        11       it's a five-year authorization or a five-year

        12       plus whatever time it took to get started

        13       authorization, that government -- because

        14       government is responsible for the public

        15       education of our children, and government is

        16       who's funding both the public school system

        17       and the charter school system -- that we would

        18       do better at getting clarification for how

        19       government would evaluate what was happening

        20       what worked, what didn't work, both in charter

        21       schools and public schools, and would be held

        22       accountable to immediately fix the problems

        23       that they saw.  And I don't see that in these

        24       bills.

        25                  I do see much broader options



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         1       available to charters.  And I've been told, in

         2       fairness, that the reason charters work so

         3       well in many parts of the State of New York

         4       and the country is because they're allowed

         5       more independence and freedom to innovate, to

         6       adjust for the needs of children, to be

         7       creative.  I think that's the right answer.

         8                  My frustration is we live at the

         9       same time where government, for its public

        10       school system, seems to be dictating just the

        11       opposite.  We don't allow them to innovate.

        12       We don't allow them to be creative.  We don't

        13       allow them to go off-script.

        14                  And so I find an irony in how we,

        15       the government, are approaching what's

        16       different and better about charities versus

        17       public, that we want to allow all these

        18       options for charter schools and yet we don't

        19       want to allow any of these options for the

        20       public school system.  And I don't actually

        21       understand that.

        22                  So I feel that this requires more

        23       research, greater debate, more analysis of

        24       this bill, how it's written, what it will and

        25       will not allow.  And that in fact what we



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         1       should be spending our time on this week is

         2       understanding what the State of New York needs

         3       to do in order to be more successful in

         4       competing for Race to the Top monies or if we

         5       even agree that that's what we should be

         6       doing.

         7                  I just want to repeat, on the

         8       record, this bill doesn't address the

         9       questions for Race to the Top.  Because I

        10       think there is confusion out there.  And I

        11       don't want anyone to choose to vote yes or no

        12       on this bill because they think they are

        13       voting for or against changes in the state law

        14       that will get us federal dollars from the Race

        15       to the Top.

        16                  I don't believe I have enough

        17       satisfactory answers to the questions in my

        18       mind about this bill, so I will be voting no.

        19                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        20                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        21       you, Senator Krueger.

        22                  Senator Oppenheimer, on the bill.

        23                  SENATOR OPPENHEIMER:    Yes.  Yes,

        24       on the bill.

        25                  Well, I'll be joining my colleague



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         1       and voting no.  And certainly several

         2       interesting discussions just took place, and

         3       there's philosophical issues which were very

         4       interesting.  And it would have been very

         5       welcome to be able to discuss them at greater

         6       length.

         7                  I will say of this bill that there

         8       are many parts that I do support.  In fact, I

         9       was seeing at least seven which were my

        10       stand-alone bills, and of course I support

        11       them -- having BOCES provide services to

        12       charter schools and doing the duration of a

        13       charter for five instructional years.  Because

        14       as it is now, they usually count the first and

        15       second years of the charter when the school is

        16       first being formed, they're not doing any

        17       instruction.  So we changed the bill to say

        18       that it would have to be -- the charter's

        19       duration had to be for five instructional

        20       years.

        21                  We dealt with conflicts of

        22       interest.  We talked about retaining students

        23       who are at risk of educational failure.  We

        24       talked about just bringing in more students

        25       who were ELL students or learning disabled



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         1       students or more seriously disabled students.

         2       And a lot of that is in this bill, and I'm

         3       very pleased with that.

         4                  But there are some things that have

         5       been left out and need to be negotiated.  And

         6       those are things like the current exemption

         7       from auditing by our Comptroller.  In this

         8       bill, it still stays with the Board of

         9       Regents.  And it is felt that since all our

        10       school districts in New York State are audited

        11       by the Comptroller, that it seems logical and

        12       necessary to also audit charter schools in the

        13       same way.

        14                  Issues of co-location are not

        15       mentioned in this bill, even though

        16       co-location, when a chart school takes over a

        17       floor or two of a public school, it is

        18       co-locating with this regular public school.

        19       And there are many issues that have to be

        20       dealt with in co-location.

        21                  And suggestions have been made that

        22       perhaps if we had a list of maybe 20 or 30 or

        23       40 schools specifically, let's say, in

        24       New York City, where there was additional

        25       space within the schools, and then we would be



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         1       able to co-locate in that additional space in

         2       the schools and perhaps offer something to the

         3       existing schools.  Perhaps we will fix your

         4       roof or we will fix your bathrooms or we will

         5       do something to make the process of the two

         6       schools locating in one school work more

         7       cooperatively with one another and make them

         8       more welcomed into the school.

         9                  The issue of oversaturation is not

        10       mentioned in this bill, and I think that's a

        11       serious one.  It's particularly serious for

        12       right where we are now, in Albany, and

        13       particularly serious for Buffalo, where a huge

        14       percentage of the students of that area are

        15       choosing to go to charter schools and

        16       therefore greatly reducing the number of

        17       children in the regular schools and causing

        18       enormous dislocation.

        19                  So those are a few of the things

        20       that are concerning me.  But I guess what

        21       concerns me the most is that I felt

        22       negotiations were going on fairly well between

        23       all the entities and we had seen several

        24       concessions being made by the teachers unions

        25       and by the school administrators and by the --



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         1       we hope by the charter people, the supporters

         2       of charters.

         3                  And the idea was to try and bring

         4       as many entities together so that our

         5       application to Race to the Top would be a

         6       strong one and, as has been mentioned earlier,

         7       is not just -- it is certainly not just adding

         8       numbers to charter schools, it is adding

         9       accountability.  And even Arne Duncan, who is

        10       our Secretary of Education in the United

        11       States, he has said that also, that the

        12       accountability issue is much more important

        13       than just growing numbers.

        14                  And we were working in a direction,

        15       I felt, that we were going to be able to

        16       present something that was very substantial

        17       and had a good deal of agreement among all the

        18       parties involved.  I feel that this will be a

        19       distraction, to say the least.  I think it

        20       will drive us further apart instead of

        21       bringing us all together.

        22                  And my request was that we could

        23       hold off for another week or maybe two weeks

        24       and see what could be achieved by everybody

        25       working together, which has been happening.



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         1       So I'll be voting no, because I think this

         2       is -- it's much too early.  If we had waited

         3       those two weeks, I probably would have been

         4       able to vote yes.  But under the

         5       circumstances, I think it's more divisive than

         6       it is helpful.

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         8       you, Senator Oppenheimer.

         9                  Senator Diaz, on the bill.

        10                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Will the sponsor

        11       yield for a question or two, please?

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        13       Senator Johnson, will you yield to a question

        14       from Senator Diaz?

        15                  SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:    I will.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You

        17       may proceed, Senator Diaz.

        18                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Thank you.

        19       Senator Johnson.

        20                  SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:    Senator

        21       Diaz.

        22                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Will you please

        23       tell me, enlighten me about where are the

        24       charter schools located in majority districts?

        25                  SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:    Sure.



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         1       Thank you.  Through you, Mr. President,

         2       charter schools obviously -- and public

         3       charter schools, may I add -- are located

         4       throughout the state:  Buffalo, Albany, about

         5       five on Long Island.  But the predominant

         6       amount happen to be in New York City, areas

         7       like Harlem, South Bronx, Brooklyn.  So the

         8       concentration right now we see are

         9       predominantly in New York City.

        10                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Mr. President,

        11       would the sponsor continue to yield.

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        13       Senator Johnson, will you yield to another

        14       question from Senator Diaz?

        15                  SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:    Of course

        16       I do.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You

        18       may proceed, Senator Diaz.

        19                  SENATOR DIAZ:    So you are telling

        20       me that the majority of charter schools are

        21       located in black and Hispanic neighborhoods

        22       and that black and Hispanic children are the

        23       ones taking advantage of it?

        24                  SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:    Through

        25       you, Mr. President, let me just -- if my words



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         1       don't necessarily do it, let me offer some

         2       statistics provided to me by the New York City

         3       Department of Education as well as the Charter

         4       Schools Institute from SUNY, State University

         5       of New York.

         6                  According to the New York City

         7       Department of Education, 90 percent of

         8       students in public charity schools are either

         9       black or Hispanic.  Those are the New York

        10       City-authorized schools.

        11                  In terms of SUNY, who authorizes as

        12       well, as you know, 91 percent of those

        13       students in SUNY-authorized public charter

        14       schools are identified as students of color.

        15                  Let me also add, Senator Diaz, that

        16       of the SUNY schools, 76 percent of the

        17       students in SUNY charter schools qualify for

        18       free or reduced lunch.  In New York City,

        19       according to the New York City Department of

        20       Education, in the charter public schools

        21       71 percent of charter students are eligible

        22       for free or reduced-price lunch.  And that's

        23       as compared to 61 percent of students

        24       citywide, those in the district schools.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:



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         1       Senator Diaz.

         2                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Mr. President,

         3       will the sponsor continue to yield, please?

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Do you

         5       continue to yield, Senator Johnson?

         6                  SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:    Of

         7       course, Senator Breslin.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You

         9       may proceed.

        10                  SENATOR DIAZ:    So, Senator

        11       Johnson, this bill requires the charter

        12       schools to be doubled to 460.  That means that

        13       if we could, from 200, go from 200 to 460,

        14       you're telling me that children in my

        15       district, parents in my district, the 32nd

        16       Senatorial District that I represent, black

        17       and Hispanic in the majority, that the parents

        18       in my district will get more opportunities to

        19       get their children to a charter school to get

        20       a good education and to have what other people

        21       have that we don't have?

        22                  SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:    Through

        23       you, Mr. President, the answer is yes.

        24                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Will the sponsor

        25       yield.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Will

         2       you continue to yield for another question?

         3                  SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:    Of

         4       course, Mr. President.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You

         6       may proceed, Senator Diaz.

         7                  SENATOR DIAZ:    So you are telling

         8       me again, Senator Johnson -- I have to see if

         9       I can get you right -- you are telling me that

        10       by doing this and voting in favor of this bill

        11       to expand charter schools, the black and

        12       Hispanic community, the black and Hispanic

        13       parents, the black and Hispanic children would

        14       benefit?

        15                  SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:    Through

        16       you, Mr. President, the answer is yes.

        17                  But let me expand, because I think

        18       what's being lost so far in this debate is how

        19       all of New York State's children and all of

        20       New York State's parents will benefit.

        21                  Remember where we are, ladies and

        22       gentlemen, right now in terms of education

        23       here in New York State.  Right now we are in

        24       the midst of a nationwide competition known as

        25       Race to the Top.  And if we may, let's go back



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         1       a little ways to January of this past year,

         2       because I think it's important that we get out

         3       on the floor of the Senate what happened in

         4       January when a bill was thrown into committees

         5       in the Senate and in the Assembly on the claim

         6       to get Race to the Top dollars.  And that bill

         7       would have done no such thing.

         8                  We are competing right now against

         9       a number of states when it comes to education

        10       reform in order to qualify for $700 million.

        11       And guess what?  Out of that $700 million,

        12       more than 99 percent of that money will go to

        13       traditional public schools.  So the schools in

        14       Senator Diaz's district, Senator Krueger's

        15       district, Senator Oppenheimer's district, my

        16       district, the traditional public schools will

        17       have access to that money, $700 million.

        18                  But we need to compete for that.

        19       And if you look how well we did last time, we

        20       came 15th out of 16 states for that money.

        21                  Well, we need to improve our score.

        22       And there are multiple ways to do it.  There

        23       are some ways that it seems that it will never

        24       happen, some ways that are off the table when

        25       it comes to improving our scores.  But there



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         1       are other ways we can do it.  And this is one

         2       way.  This is one way to do it.

         3                  And so yes, Senator Diaz, we have

         4       the opportunity to put additional public

         5       charter schools into your district, should

         6       they qualify -- because they need to go

         7       through an application process, a rigorous

         8       application process that at Senator Perkins'

         9       hearing in detail went through how that

        10       process goes about.

        11                  But what's important to recognize

        12       and what the studies show, from Hoxby and from

        13       the recent CREDO study that was released in

        14       January 2010, is that your students will

        15       benefit from these schools.

        16                  Thank you.

        17                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Mr. President, on

        18       the bill.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        20       Senator Diaz, on the bill.

        21                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Mr. President and

        22       ladies and gentlemen, there is a saying "Put

        23       your money where your mouth is."  And there

        24       are some people saying that they always care

        25       for the black and Hispanic and the minority



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         1       children and that they're all looking out for

         2       the best.

         3                  Here is an opportunity that we

         4       could show, as Democrats, as Republicans, that

         5       we could really show that we care for

         6       children.  Not for people personally, for

         7       power for people, but for children.  And to

         8       give some parents in the City of New York, in

         9       my district, the opportunity to send their

        10       children to a good school and to get a good

        11       education and to compete, not to be left

        12       behind.

        13                  And today, I am proud and have to

        14       congratulate Leader Sampson, John Sampson, for

        15       the courage, the initiative, the caring for

        16       children in the State of New York and to

        17       present this bill, to allow this bill to come

        18       to the floor.

        19                  And I am proud and honored -- to

        20       me, it's an honor, Mr. President, it's an

        21       honor to me that this body and Chairman

        22       Sampson have given me to go back to my

        23       district, to look at the parents of the

        24       children in my district and tell them I voted

        25       for more charter schools and I want to give



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         1       you the opportunity that you deserve.  I'm

         2       proud and honored.  This is the biggest honor

         3       they're giving me, the biggest honor they're

         4       giving me, telling me to go back to my

         5       district to tell all the little Juanas -- like

         6       Congressman Serrano used to say, little Juana

         7       and Luisa and Pepe in my district, telling

         8       them:  We did it for you.  We're opening doors

         9       for you children.  Go enjoy it.

        10                  And in fact, if I cannot do

        11       anything else, I'll be more than happy to do

        12       this.  And I ask all of you to think of

        13       children first, children first, and to vote

        14       for this bill and to allow this bill to go

        15       through and to give the parents in my district

        16       the opportunity that they deserve.  That's all

        17       we're asking for.  We're not asking for more.

        18       We're not asking for more than for whatever we

        19       get.

        20                  So we are going to stop and don't

        21       give the opportunity to people to decide to be

        22       able to do this?  This is a great opportunity.

        23       This is the opportunity of our life.  And I am

        24       going to be part of history.  And I am

        25       honored, again, happy to be part of this



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         1       history today with voting for more charter

         2       schools.  We voted to give the parents in my

         3       district opportunity, we voted for the

         4       children in my district.  I'm honored.  I will

         5       face them and tell them, with my head high:

         6       "I voted for you.  I did it for you.  We did

         7       it."

         8                  Thank you, Mr. President.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        10       you, Senator Diaz.

        11                  Senator Montgomery, on the bill.

        12                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, thank

        13       you, Mr. President.

        14                  I would just start by reminding all

        15       of us that we all, every single one of us in

        16       this room, have been through an educational

        17       system.  That's what separates America from

        18       most of the other parts of the world,

        19       especially those parts of the world where

        20       there is no such thing as access for all

        21       citizens.  So I'm proud to be an American

        22       today.

        23                  We are talking about the

        24       underpinning of America, democracy.  And that

        25       is education, free education.  That is what



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         1       America represents.  And through that, there's

         2       access to other things in America that America

         3       has to offer all of its citizens.  But

         4       education is the access to those things.

         5                  So we're not talking about a

         6       program that is for my district or Senator

         7       Diaz's district or Senator Savino's district.

         8       We're talking about the underpinning of the

         9       American society.  And it is what Martin

        10       Luther King and other people that were part of

        11       the so-called civil rights movement, it was

        12       part of the women's rights movement, it was

        13       part of the human rights movement, as of

        14       today -- access to education.

        15                  So I think we need to be very,

        16       very, very careful about what we do to make

        17       changes that are fundamental to changing that

        18       system.  And certainly there are parts of the

        19       system that I would like to see changed.  I do

        20       not like what public education represents

        21       totally, but I'm willing to work on positive

        22       and constructive involvement.  But I certainly

        23       would want to make sure that we preserve it.

        24                  I want to say that I too supported

        25       the Sampson/Silver bill that was introduced



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         1       in -- I believe in March.  It was S6468.  I am

         2       not in favor of the bill that is before us

         3       today.  Why?  Because I believe that there are

         4       important and significant aspects to the issue

         5       of the charter school system that we need to

         6       be responsibly addressing.  And the bill that

         7       we have before us does not address those.

         8                  The accountability I think is

         9       extremely important.  How that system is

        10       funded, how it is accountable.  We're talking

        11       about public dollars, public tax dollars going

        12       into another system.  We need to understand

        13       and have accountability for what that system

        14       does, both with the funding as well as with

        15       the children that are in there.

        16                  It is my understanding that the

        17       charter school movement has gone to court to

        18       oppose the Comptroller having access to audit

        19       them.  I think that is clearly a problem for

        20       us.

        21                  I think that we have not, in this

        22       bill -- there is no restriction for for-profit

        23       organizations actually sponsoring and managing

        24       charter schools.  I think we need to be

        25       extremely cautious about the fact that if we



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         1       allow for-profit involvement in the charter

         2       school in public education, we're moving

         3       toward privatization.  For-profit

         4       organizations are for profit.  And so I think

         5       we need to be very careful.  I'm very

         6       concerned about that.

         7                  I think that we need to also

         8       understand who's managing our schools.  Are

         9       these charter schools being managed by outfits

        10       that are from outside of our state, outside of

        11       the community, and do not have the same

        12       interests, they do not have the same interest

        13       as the communities of the schools that are

        14       located?  This is really, I think, an issue

        15       that we need to be talking about.

        16                  We have these charter schools --

        17       ostensibly, the charter school movement was

        18       started to be an experimental movement giving

        19       us a picture of what kinds of things make a

        20       difference -- improve education, give us a

        21       road map, a blueprint for improving our public

        22       school system.

        23                  We have not yet seen that the State

        24       Ed Department has been able to take the best

        25       practices from the charter school system and



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         1       begin to translate those and transfer those to

         2       the larger system so we can benefit from the

         3       so-called improvements of the charter school.

         4       We need to make sure that what we're doing is

         5       actually funding a system that is indeed

         6       actually better for our children.

         7                  And let me just say this,

         8       Mr. President.  I have here a report of two

         9       schools in my district, P.S. 15 and P.S. 256,

        10       Benjamin Banneker.  P.S. 15 is in Red Hook.

        11       They have had to give up a good part of their

        12       school, including six full rooms and six

        13       half-rooms, to accommodate a charter school.

        14       These rooms include academic classrooms, a

        15       computer room, a science lab, and an

        16       occupational therapy room, a speech and

        17       language room, a professional development

        18       room, the special education office, and a room

        19       used by Good Shepherd Services for individual

        20       and family counseling.  That's one school

        21       giving up all of that space for a charter

        22       school.  It has created havoc in that

        23       community.  It is absolutely awful.

        24                  And on top of that, this fall the

        25       Department of Education in New York City



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         1       announced that the charter school would stay

         2       in the building until 2015 and expand its

         3       grades, occupying more space each year and

         4       forcing P.S. 15 to shrink its size.

         5                  That's what's happening in New York

         6       City all over the city.  I have other schools

         7       in my district that have had the same fate.

         8       And that's what the mayor of New York City has

         9       decided is his process of siting charter

        10       schools.  We think that needs to be addressed.

        11       It was addressed in 6468, Senator Sampson's

        12       bill.  This Rules bill has no such reference.

        13                  The Sampson/Silver bill authorized

        14       only not-for-profit EMOs.  They prohibited

        15       EMOs -- that's the management organizations --

        16       that are charter operators from working with

        17       school districts.

        18                  There are a number of safety

        19       measures in the bill that Senator Sampson

        20       introduced earlier.  This Rules bill has none

        21       of those.

        22                  And, Mr. President, this is very,

        23       very serious.  This is a step that we must not

        24       take, expanding this charter system without

        25       funding, without oversight, without



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         1       transparency, and without even isolating the

         2       things that we know are good about charter

         3       schools and using those, transferring those

         4       and figuring out a way to benefit all of the

         5       schools in the state that are failing.

         6                  So I'm going to be voting no on

         7       this bill because I think this is the wrong

         8       thing to do, the wrong decision.  And if we do

         9       the wrong thing, if we don't address the

        10       issues that are being raised here tonight now,

        11       we stand a chance of this system getting so

        12       far out of hand, so far out that we will not

        13       be able to address it logically as a

        14       legislature.

        15                  For us in New York City, it will be

        16       the same thing as we have with giving the

        17       education system control to the mayor.  This

        18       is another one of those giant steps, and I

        19       think we need to be very, very, very much more

        20       careful and thoughtful and we should not be

        21       doing this in this way.

        22                  So, Mr. President, I'm going to

        23       have to vote no.  Thank you.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        25       you, Senator Montgomery.



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         1                  Are there any other Senators

         2       wishing to be heard?

         3                  Senator Golden, on the bill.

         4                  SENATOR GOLDEN:    Thank you,

         5       Mr. President.

         6                  I rise to explain and to say thank

         7       you for a bipartisan bill here today that is

         8       going to be passed here in the Senate.  And

         9       hopefully it will be passed in the Assembly

        10       and the Governor will sign it into law.

        11                  It raises the cap of the number of

        12       charter schools from 200 to 460.  And it's to

        13       be shared by SUNY, who gets 230 schools, and

        14       the Board of Regents and the local school

        15       districts get the additional 230 schools.

        16                  In this bill, 115 charter slots to

        17       be available for the City of New York.  This

        18       bill responds to President Obama's call for

        19       high-quality charter public schools as a

        20       critical component of that Race to the Top.

        21       It expands again that number from 200 to 460,

        22       or about 10 percent of the total public

        23       schools here across the State of New York,

        24       about 4600 schools.

        25                  By lifting that cap, that 10



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         1       percent of all public schools in this state,

         2       the legislation will enable New York to

         3       qualify for a maximum number of points related

         4       to charter schools, and therefore giving us

         5       the opportunity for Round 2 funding of

         6       $700 million, of which 50 percent of that

         7       grant will be received and will go to the

         8       New York State Department of Education to

         9       implement programs that are in that grant.

        10       And the other 50 percent will be allocated to

        11       local school districts, based upon their Title

        12       I student enrollment to help support efforts

        13       to improve that student performance.

        14                  Independent research has repeatedly

        15       found that New York City's charter schools

        16       dramatically outperform noncharter schools

        17       serving the same mix of students.  A recent

        18       study by a research group in Stanford

        19       University, which has previously called out

        20       the weakness in the charter schools

        21       nationwide, identified New York's group of

        22       charter schools as a beacon.

        23                  On January 10, 2010, in a New York 

        24       Times editorial it discussed "why charter

        25       schools in New York City are outperforming



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         1       charters elsewhere as well as their local

         2       'traditional' school counterparts."

         3                  This legislation would also enact

         4       significant reforms through increased

         5       accountability and transparency of New York's

         6       charter schools and enhance the ability of

         7       these charter schools to serve special ed kids

         8       and to serve the ELL and give these students

         9       admission priorities to schools that serve low

        10       numbers of these students with special needs.

        11                  It requires the charter board

        12       members to meet the same conflicts of interest

        13       and ethics requirements as traditional school

        14       board members.  And it establishes uniformity

        15       and oversight in the lottery and application

        16       process.

        17                  As many of you will remember, back

        18       in the '80s and '90s and the early 2000s there

        19       were two brothers, they set up this

        20       foundation, and they would give out these

        21       grants, these $2500 grants.  And there were a

        22       relatively low number of grants that they

        23       would give out each and every year.  Do you

        24       know how many parents would line up for those

        25       applications?  Hundreds of thousands would



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         1       fill out those applications.

         2                  And, ladies and gentlemen, nothing

         3       has changed.  Not in the '80s, not in the

         4       '90s, not in the 2000s.  Our education

         5       standards have gotten better.  Our children

         6       are getting a better education.  But I have to

         7       tell you, ladies and gentlemen, our greatest

         8       treasures are our assets and our greatest

         9       assets are our children.

        10                  And those parents of today will do

        11       anything to make sure that their child gets a

        12       good education.  And it's up to each of us

        13       here today to allow for that opportunity, to

        14       allow for those parents to have that

        15       competition, for our educational system to

        16       have that competition to be able to check, to

        17       be able to have those checks and balances and

        18       be able to see what's good, what's bad, what

        19       works and what doesn't work.

        20                  Ladies and gentlemen, this is a

        21       good day for all of us.  This is a good day

        22       for each child across this state.  There are

        23       3 million kids that attend school systems

        24       across this great state.  Out of that

        25       3 million, a small number will go to charter



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         1       schools.  But there are lines, ladies and

         2       gentlemen, to get into those charter schools

         3       and waiting lists to get into those charter

         4       schools.  The question is why.

         5                  I've heard some of my colleagues

         6       say that the Department of Education hasn't

         7       been able to take those good practices and to

         8       be able to insert them into our educational

         9       system today.  Well, they should do that.

        10       They should take the good practices and give

        11       every child across the state its

        12       opportunities.  We owe it to those treasures.

        13       We owe it to the greatest assets of this great

        14       country.  We owe it to those children.

        15                  I vote aye, Mr. President.

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        17       Senator Espada, on the bill.

        18                  SENATOR ESPADA:    Thank you,

        19       Mr. President.

        20                  I rise because I'm very familiar

        21       with the subject matter, in that my first

        22       profession coming out of Fordham University

        23       was as a licensed bilingual teacher in the

        24       public school system, both in the early grades

        25       and in high school.



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         1                  And growing up in the public school

         2       system, we often referred to 110 Livingston

         3       Street, the very centralized education system

         4       in the City of New York.  Then we move towards

         5       the '60s and '70s, where the battle was fought

         6       on the ground for decentralization, what role

         7       would communities have, parents have in

         8       designing an educational system for their

         9       children.

        10                  Now, while we can start in the '60s

        11       and the '70s, you can go further back in the

        12       great American immigration stories at Ellis

        13       Island and how new immigrants came to this

        14       country, through New York City, the city I'm

        15       most familiar with, and sought to design a

        16       system of education that linguistically and

        17       culturally and otherwise would achieve

        18       mainstreaming them into the greater American

        19       society.

        20                  We're here today because there is a

        21       schism and the least of those priorities,

        22       quite frankly, has often been our children.

        23       We can wax eloquent about children; we're all

        24       professional orators and elected officials, we

        25       know how to do that.  But the truth of the



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         1       matter is that there are some folks in the

         2       shadows, there are some serious power

         3       struggles that we have to bring out of those

         4       shadows.  Because the truth is that children

         5       are not being heard here today, for the most

         6       part.  Teachers are not necessarily being

         7       heard here, for the most part, nor those

         8       principals or parents or those children

         9       waiting on line.

        10                  We do have to have a bill before

        11       this house that deals with the role of

        12       for-profits, that deals with the role of

        13       management firms, that deals with the role of

        14       evaluating educational outcome, that deals

        15       with conflicts of interest, that deals with

        16       co-location, that deals with educational

        17       policy about high-needs children, special

        18       needs children.

        19                  And let me pause.  As I became a

        20       father and I had a job as a teacher, my kids

        21       could not and should not and did not go to

        22       that public school system that was available

        23       to them.  Because the fact of the matter was

        24       that given their learning disabilities, I

        25       would have been involved in malpractice as a



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         1       parent to put them in an educational system

         2       that was ill-equipped to deal with their

         3       special needs.

         4                  And so when we talk about an

         5       interest in defining special needs, in

         6       defining English-as-a-second-language students

         7       and their educational struggles, let's not

         8       just focus in on this charter school failure

         9       to deal with admissions policies.  I've been

        10       around too long.  We have to deal with

        11       1 million children who have 60 percent of the

        12       English language students, failing out of the

        13       public school system.

        14                  And so it is an educational failure

        15       that we all have to deal with.  Whether we

        16       talk about a public school charter experience

        17       or a public education experience, those that

        18       come to this country in search of the great

        19       American dream, we're failing them.  And both

        20       systems have not lived up to their

        21       obligations.  And both powers, whether they be

        22       the affluent, philanthropic, well-intentioned

        23       charter school folks or whether it be the

        24       principals or teachers union, have failed.

        25                  Because if we just focus in on how



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         1       to turn public education money into an

         2       economic or for-profit opportunity, or if we

         3       talk about protecting teachers at all costs

         4       and jobs at all costs and having tenure be

         5       redefined so that the worst teachers can

         6       continue to teach children, and so that when

         7       we attach merit to whether or not folks keep

         8       their job, that conversation can be had.

         9                  In other words, the politics and

        10       the polarization is the reason why we have to

        11       pass one-house bills.  And so this debate has

        12       to get stimulated by more than just passing

        13       one-house bills.  We have to have a real

        14       conversation about having children first, as

        15       Senator Diaz indicated.

        16                  And in doing that, we look forward

        17       to a bill that our leader, Senator Sampson,

        18       and that Assembly Leader Silver could put

        19       before both houses that will deal with

        20       accountability, transparency, audits, student

        21       accomplishments.

        22                  And yes, there is this notion that

        23       somehow we have to get stimulated, motivated,

        24       energized because we're in some Race to the

        25       Top.  Again, both sides of this huge equation



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         1       are losing, and in the middle is the

         2       educational abyss where our children lie,

         3       where their educational failures could be

         4       countered by private institutes but mostly the

         5       parents that sit anxiously awaiting the day

         6       when they truly could have options.

         7                  So that, yeah, there's a public

         8       monopoly on education, there's a challenge, a

         9       challenge to that system which is incomplete

        10       in that you haven't dealt well with high-needs

        11       students, we have created a battle for space

        12       in our public school systems.  This angst,

        13       this incredible anger that builds up in these

        14       public hearings that I've been to is only a

        15       by-product of the fact, again, that we haven't

        16       done our job.

        17                  Whatever we do, we have to have a

        18       bill that deals with the issues of access,

        19       issues of what defines educational

        20       achievement, issues of co-location, issues of

        21       getting capital into use for charter schools.

        22       Yes.  Yes.  The reason why you have these

        23       co-location battles is because we don't have

        24       the facilities available for this true

        25       competition or this true option to fully



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         1       blossom.

         2                  And so they're both public schools.

         3       One goes by the name of charter schools.  One

         4       has a tremendous support in the private

         5       sector, and the philanthropic dollar has found

         6       it.

         7                  And the big public challenge to

         8       this house and to the Assembly, the

         9       Legislature and the Governor, is to deal with

        10       all of the elements that would make for a

        11       resolution in time for Race to the Top, yes,

        12       but in time so that next September, when the

        13       new class of students seeks admission into

        14       these schools, that they can truly have a

        15       choice.

        16                  I will be supporting this bill,

        17       Mr. President, because I think it starts the

        18       conversation.  It doesn't finish it for sure.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        20       you, Senator Espada.

        21                  The debate is closed.

        22                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

        23                  Read the last section.

        24                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 18.  This

        25       act shall take effect immediately.



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         1                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

         2       the roll.

         3                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         5       Senator DeFrancisco, to explain his vote.

         6                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Thank you,

         7       Mr. President.

         8                  I know there's some controversy

         9       about this bill and the unions are not in

        10       favor of it.  However, we're in a financial

        11       disaster right now in the State of New York,

        12       where we're going to run out of money by June.

        13       It's just a shame we didn't pass a bill to put

        14       our application for Race to the Top money at

        15       the top of the pile a few months ago, and then

        16       we might have had some more money to count on

        17       for this year's budget.

        18                  So I'm voting yes on this to

        19       enhance our application for federal money, up

        20       to $700 million, to replace the cuts that

        21       otherwise would be necessary for education.

        22       And I'm doing this in favor of the teachers,

        23       those teachers which will otherwise be laid

        24       off and not be able to teach our students if

        25       we don't get the funding that we need to



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         1       provide to our districts.

         2                  So I vote aye.  Thank you.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         4       Senator DeFrancisco will be recorded in the

         5       affirmative.

         6                  Senator Thompson, to explain his

         7       vote.

         8                  SENATOR THOMPSON:    Thank you,

         9       Mr. President, for recognizing me today.

        10                  I just wanted to speak about this

        11       issue for a moment because charter schools and

        12       traditional public schools are very important

        13       institutions.  While we know that this is a

        14       one-house bill today and probably will not

        15       pass the State Assembly, I think it does begin

        16       a needed debate.

        17                  And although I'm not voting for the

        18       bill -- because largely I believe it has today

        19       distracted us from the efforts to finalize the

        20       state budget -- this bill, however, does take

        21       some steps forward in terms of making reforms

        22       and providing more accountability.  But the

        23       challenge for this bill is that still falls

        24       short.

        25                  It falls short in certain key



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         1       areas -- to make sure that the State

         2       Comptroller will have the ability to do audits

         3       of charter schools.  It also falls short as

         4       well in making sure that we address the

         5       saturation language of oversaturation in

         6       certain communities.  Hopefully, as we move

         7       forward, as well that it will address reforms

         8       that are needed on the public school side.

         9                  There was a report that was issued

        10       today by the teachers and some of their

        11       supporters that talk about what the charter

        12       schools do wrong or don't do effectively.  And

        13       I believe that there are things that the

        14       public schools need to address and that they

        15       can learn and pick up from some of the charter

        16       schools.

        17                  For example, one of the things that

        18       many people have heard me talk about is

        19       parental involvement.  I ran for the Senate on

        20       the issue of parental involvement.  Whatever

        21       happens as a result of this or doesn't happen

        22       as a result of this must address the issue of

        23       the high rate of students dropping out in the

        24       state, the low literacy rates, bad test scores

        25       and low rates of parental involvement.  Those



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         1       are the four cornerstone issues that I hold

         2       dear to my heart.

         3                  And so I support both school

         4       systems.  However, this is not the best way to

         5       do it.  And particularly as we move forward,

         6       we need to have a more transparent process.

         7                  Thank you, and I vote no.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         9       Senator Thompson to be recorded in the

        10       negative.

        11                  Senator Stavisky, to explain her

        12       vote.

        13                  SENATOR STAVISKY:    Thank you,

        14       Mr. President.

        15                  I'm not going to repeat what was

        16       said here, except a misconception was said.

        17       The Stanford Center for Research on

        18       Educational Outcomes, which studied the

        19       charter school movement nationally -- and is,

        20       incidentally, one of the most comprehensive

        21       studies on charter schools -- they found that

        22       fewer than one-fifth of the charter schools

        23       nationally offered a better education

        24       comparable to the local schools, about half

        25       offered an equivalent education, and more than



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         1       a third, 37 percent -- and this is the

         2       respected institute at Stanford University --

         3       37 percent of the charter schools were

         4       significantly worse.

         5                  And it seems to me that that's what

         6       it's about.  To do kids do better in a charter

         7       school?  In my opinion, they do not.

         8                  And I support the public schools,

         9       and I vote no.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        11       Senator Stavisky will be recorded in the

        12       negative.

        13                  Senator Saland, to explain his

        14       vote.

        15                  SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you,

        16       Mr. President.

        17                  Mr. President, I certainly believe

        18       in competition.  Competition in all avenues of

        19       the life I think is ultimately healthy and

        20       produces a better product.

        21                  Some of you may recall at the time

        22       that we increased the charter cap, we passed

        23       the portion of the budget containing the

        24       education funding and the education language

        25       with one dissenting vote.  And I was



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         1       intimately involved in those negotiations

         2       because at the time I was the Education chair.

         3       And I was that lone dissenting vote.

         4                  And the reason for my dissenting at

         5       that time had nothing to do with the concept

         6       of charter schools, but it had everything to

         7       do with the fact that there was no effort to

         8       provide local control, something that in some

         9       40-plus percent of the states that have

        10       charters is permitted by operation of law.

        11                  And I continue to believe that

        12       that's critically important.  I welcome the

        13       city's embrace of charter schools.  If it

        14       works for them, that's fine; they're funding

        15       it.  They're a dependent school district, and

        16       they're funding it in substantial part.

        17                  I do think, however, that local

        18       school districts -- or, as the feds call them,

        19       LEAs -- should have some say in whether or not

        20       a charter school is in fact permitted to be

        21       part of their school program because they in

        22       fact are bearing a substantial portion of the

        23       cost.

        24                  So for that reason, Mr. President,

        25       I will be voting in negative on this bill.



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         1       Thank you.

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         3       Senator Saland to be recorded in the negative.

         4                  Senator Montgomery, to explain her

         5       vote.

         6                  SENATOR MONTGOMERY:    Yes, thank

         7       you, Mr. President.

         8                  In addition to the questions that

         9       I've already raised, I sure would like to know

        10       what is the rush.

        11                  And another question that I have is

        12       that most of the people, most of the Senators

        13       in here don't have any charter schools in

        14       their areas.  And Senator Golden doesn't have

        15       any in his district.  And so most of you don't

        16       even -- this is not even the issue that they

        17       have to concern themselves about as it relates

        18       to education in their districts.

        19                  But certainly I do.  And I also

        20       know that schools don't fail by themselves.

        21       Their communities have an environment that

        22       doesn't support success.

        23                  So now I see -- another question I

        24       have is that we have people on Wall Street who

        25       have put together a fund, a pool, which they



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         1       intend to use against people who they view as

         2       being against charter schools.  Now, why would

         3       people on Wall Street, the hedge fund people,

         4       be so interested in these children when they

         5       are the reason why we had so many foreclosures

         6       in the communities where those children with

         7       failing schools live?

         8                  So there's something very strange

         9       about this whole issue.  And it doesn't seem

        10       like it's so much for the children.  I don't

        11       see the same people who are so interested in

        12       children now, I have not seen them ever in my

        13       life standing up for what's good for those

        14       children, especially those children that they

        15       claim need these charter schools so much.

        16                  I'm not against charter schools.

        17       But I must say, on behalf of my son to all of

        18       his teachers -- there are some that I could

        19       name here, they were wonderful.  He was a

        20       public school student.  He did very well, and

        21       he is still doing well.  I thank the public

        22       school system in this state and in my city.

        23                  So I'm voting no because I don't

        24       see the rush to take money out of a system

        25       that we should be improving and send it away



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         1       to a system for which there is no

         2       accountability or transparency.  I vote no.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         4       Senator Montgomery will be recorded in the

         5       negative.

         6                  Senator Perkins, to explain his

         7       vote.

         8                  SENATOR PERKINS:    Thank you very

         9       much, Mr. Chairman.

        10                  You know, no one here is against

        11       money coming to schools for education, if

        12       that's what it's really for.  We are tying

        13       this legislation to something called Race to

        14       the Top, $2 billion of public money that will

        15       be spent without any auditing, without any

        16       oversight by the Comptroller.

        17                  For me, it's not simply about Race

        18       to the Top.  I think that, for me, this is

        19       more like race to the trough.  It's more like

        20       folks seeing an opportunity to get some public

        21       dollars without the kind of scrutiny, without

        22       the kind of transparency, without the kind of

        23       accountability that we would not allow in any

        24       other sector of public government but for this

        25       charter sector, and we are opening up the



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         1       floodgates in that regard.

         2                  Now, I know that a lot of us are

         3       concerned about the failure of our traditional

         4       public schools and are appreciative of those

         5       instances when the charter schools have proven

         6       themselves to be successful.  But if you read

         7       the New York Times this Sunday, you'll find

         8       that the story is not that clear.  It's a very

         9       murky record, to say the least.  If you read

        10       the New York Times from last week you'll find

        11       that it's about the money, for many.

        12                  And many of you I hope have

        13       received what it is I sent out to you that

        14       spells it out from the perspective of the

        15       Times.  And also you might want to make note

        16       of the Times Union this weekend, where they

        17       have a featured article "For the Kids,"

        18       underscoring again that it's about the money

        19       and not about the kids.

        20                  So I can't vote for this.  I think

        21       that there's something cynical about this type

        22       of legislation that does not speak to some of

        23       the reforms that have been written about in

        24       the public papers and that my hearings brought

        25       out, particularly when we talk about



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         1       co-location, where in some communities there

         2       are serious confrontations about this type of

         3       situation.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         5       Senator Perkins --

         6                  SENATOR PERKINS:    I also want --

         7                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         8       Senator Perkins, how do you vote?

         9                  SENATOR PERKINS:    -- in

        10       conclusion, to also talk about the saturation

        11       issues and the fact that the cherry-picking

        12       with respect to special ed children that's

        13       taking place.

        14                  So I'm going to be voting against

        15       this.  I look forward to another episode where

        16       we can move forward in a more responsible,

        17       more creative way to make sure that if we're

        18       going to have charters or any kind of public

        19       schools that they are responsive, with the

        20       type of transparency and accountability that

        21       we would expect in any other part of public

        22       service.

        23                  Thank you.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        25       Senator Perkins will be recorded in the



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         1       negative.

         2                  I remind people that there is two

         3       minutes to explain your vote.

         4                  Senator Craig Johnson, to explain

         5       his vote.

         6                  SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:    Thank you

         7       very much, Mr. President.

         8                  First, let me say this to clarify

         9       for the record.  Senator Stavisky, the study

        10       that you cited was the national CREDO study

        11       that did not even look at the New York City

        12       charter schools.  CREDO then did the study of

        13       the New York City charter schools which

        14       Senator Golden commented about, and they

        15       praised the New York City charter schools.  So

        16       you're looking at a national study.

        17                  Very similarly, in the New York 

        18       Times piece this past week, what people

        19       pointed out is that nationally, when you don't

        20       have the accountability or the transparency,

        21       you have problems.  The same piece, though,

        22       said that experts praised New York State's

        23       accountability and transparency and said we do

        24       a better job here in New York State.

        25                  So when you grab those studies,



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         1       make sure you're looking at the ones that talk

         2       about New York State versus the national

         3       studies.

         4                  But we're getting off the point.

         5       We talk about studies and we talk about

         6       for-profits, and we can all cite particular

         7       things.  It's about the kids.  It's about the

         8       parents.  It's about the fact that we have

         9       Race to the Top, we have the ability to secure

        10       $700 million, and to do so we have to do

        11       particular things.

        12                  The $700 million, 99 percent of it

        13       will go to traditional public schools.  Those

        14       will help Velmanette Montgomery's school

        15       districts.  Those will help Liz Krueger's

        16       school districts.  Those will help Marty

        17       Golden's school districts.  It will help all

        18       of our school districts.  We lose sight of

        19       that fact.

        20                  The fact is is that access to

        21       quality education should not be predetermined

        22       by somebody's zip code.  And charter schools,

        23       public charter schools help children,

        24       predominantly African-American and

        25       Hispanic-American communities, get a better



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         1       education.  If you don't believe me, go to the

         2       Harlem Success Academy, like I did, and see

         3       how these kids are succeeding.  Who now have a

         4       25 percent population of special ed kids, who

         5       scored 100 percent on their math scores and

         6       97 percent on their English scores.  One of

         7       the best schools in the state, public schools.

         8                  But let me say this, finally.  If

         9       you have qualms, if you have questions, I urge

        10       you to go see the movie called "The Lottery."

        11       It's a very simple film.  It involves --

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        13       Senator Johnson --

        14                  SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:    It

        15       involves --

        16                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        17       Senator Johnson, how do you vote?

        18                  SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON:    -- four

        19       families and talks about their struggles and

        20       their desire to get into these schools and

        21       have access to education these kids can't get

        22       today.

        23                  I vote yes.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        25       you, Senator Johnson.  You will be recorded in



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         1       the affirmative.

         2                  Senator Onorato, to explain his

         3       vote.

         4                  SENATOR ONORATO:    Thank you,

         5       Mr. President.

         6                  I rise to support this bill.  I

         7       think it's a wake-up call, finally, for the

         8       public education system to get their act

         9       together.

        10                  I have probably the first charter

        11       school in Queens County, located in Woodside,

        12       and I have the most diversified district

        13       perhaps in the State of New York, where we

        14       have 130 different languages spoken in my

        15       area.  And I have more and more requests than

        16       I can possibly handle with recommendations

        17       that they allow me to write a letter of

        18       recommendation to get them into the charter

        19       school that I have located in my district.

        20                  So I'm voting with my constituents

        21       who want a chance to give their children the

        22       same opportunity as the children that are

        23       already attending the charter school in

        24       Woodside.  I vote yes.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:



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         1       Senator Onorato will be recorded in the

         2       affirmative.

         3                  Senator Diaz, to explain his vote.

         4                  SENATOR DIAZ:    Thank you,

         5       Mr. President.

         6                  I remember, Mr. President, many

         7       years, many years ago when there was no

         8       charter schools and three reverends, three

         9       ministers, Reverend Floyd Flake from Brooklyn,

        10       Reverend Wyatt Tee Walker from Manhattan, and

        11       myself, we conducted a press conference at

        12       City Hall asking Albany to approve charter

        13       schools.  Way back.  And now we -- I'm proud

        14       of what I did, I'm proud of what I'm doing.

        15                  But, Senator Golden, I heard that

        16       you don't have a charter school in your

        17       district and you are voting for it.  Senator

        18       Golden, Senator Padavan, you guys that don't

        19       have my color skin, you guys that don't have

        20       charter schools, you are voting to help my

        21       children in my district.

        22                  I would like to extend an

        23       invitation to you, Golden, and to you,

        24       Padavan, to come to the South Bronx, to my

        25       charter school, and pay a visit with me.  You



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         1       will see the parents.  You will see the

         2       happiness.  You will see the victory that we

         3       have achieved.

         4                  So anytime, you will be welcome to

         5       come with me.  I am inviting you right now to

         6       come to my district and meet the parents of my

         7       district.

         8                  Thank you for your vote today.  I'm

         9       voting yes.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        11       Senator Diaz will be recorded in the

        12       affirmative.

        13                  Senator Stewart-Cousins, to explain

        14       her vote.

        15                  SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS:    Thank

        16       you, Mr. President.

        17                  I rise because I think we can do

        18       better.  I know that we are talking about our

        19       children, and I think it should be clear that

        20       I don't think anyone in this chamber is

        21       against charter schools.  But I again repeat

        22       what has been repeated over and over again.

        23       It is the investment in our future.  If New

        24       York City is doing it right, it can be

        25       codified, it can be put in our legislation.



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         1       Because there are many schools that are doing

         2       it wrong.

         3                  And if we have an opportunity to

         4       begin a conversation, we should begin it, but

         5       we shouldn't end it at a place that we know

         6       won't accomplish the goals.  We want our

         7       children to be educated.  Every single child

         8       does not want to stand in line in a lottery

         9       hoping against hope that education is in their

        10       future, a quality education that can allow

        11       them to sit in these chambers.

        12                  And if we can do better and if we

        13       have an opportunity to race to the top and

        14       actually get to the top by creating language

        15       and creating transparency and accountability

        16       as well as opportunity, we ought to do that.

        17                  So I at this point will vote no.  I

        18       look forward for a real discussion, a

        19       continued conversation and a race to the top

        20       that actually includes all children in

        21       New York State.

        22                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        23       Senator Stewart-Cousins will be recorded in

        24       the negative.

        25                  Senator L. Krueger, to explain her



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         1       vote.

         2                  SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER:    Thank you.

         3                  Just for the record, sometimes the

         4       rhetoric gets hot when we're passionate about

         5       issues, and I respect that.  But to clarify,

         6       just once and for all on the record, this bill

         7       doesn't get us the Race to the Top money.  The

         8       Race to the Top has a series of evaluations

         9       that we need to do better on.

        10                  Based on the findings from our

        11       rejection, we only could have received an

        12       additional 12.6 points in our application for

        13       Race to the Top based on raising the charter

        14       cap.  I think it's fine to raise the charter

        15       cap; 12.6 points isn't getting us the money.

        16       We still have the assignment.  So the argument

        17       this bill, yes, means $700 million is a false

        18       statement.

        19                  Second, this money can't be used

        20       to -- the Race to the Top money, if we get it,

        21       can't be used to avoid teacher layoffs.

        22       That's not what it's there for.

        23                  So just two points.  You can

        24       support charter schools or not support charter

        25       schools, you can debate what we need to do for



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         1       Race to the Top money, and we need to continue

         2       that.  But this bill doesn't get us

         3       $700 million, although I would love to get us

         4       $700 million, and you can't use that

         5       $700 million to avoid layoffs.  We still have

         6       an obligation to deal with the tough decisions

         7       in the state budget quickly.

         8                  I'll be voting no, as I said

         9       before.  Thank you, Mr. President.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        11       Senator L. Krueger will be recorded in the

        12       negative.

        13                  Senator Schneiderman, to explain

        14       his vote.

        15                  SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN:    Thank you,

        16       Mr. President.

        17                  I look forward to being able to

        18       vote for a bill to lift the cap on charter

        19       schools.  I think the needs for further

        20       reforms have been discussed today.

        21                  But I have to say, listening to the

        22       debate, the thing that disturbs me the most

        23       about this is that while I think that there

        24       may be, as some have suggested, some people

        25       interested in education for bad reasons,



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         1       frankly, I think the overwhelming majority of

         2       people on both sides of this issue are

         3       concerned about kids and are concerned about

         4       schools and do want what's best for our

         5       children.

         6                  This is an issue that has become

         7       very polarized.  And I think that in fact most

         8       of us here would look forward to a bill that

         9       would enable us to lift the cap.  I hope that

        10       we can get back to the negotiations, as

        11       Senator Oppenheimer spoke about.  My

        12       understanding is that there was a lot of

        13       progress being made on the issue of having a

        14       unified approach to the Race to the Top

        15       application.

        16                  But I would urge all my colleagues,

        17       there's a difference between an opponent and

        18       enemy.  And demonizing anybody in this debate

        19       probably doesn't serve us well.  So I'm going

        20       to vote no on this bill.  I look forward to

        21       being able to vote yes on a bill down the road

        22       that has some further reforms.

        23                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        25       Senator Schneiderman will be recorded in the



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         1       negative.

         2                  Announce the results.

         3                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

         4       the negative on Calendar Number 475 are

         5       Senators Breslin, Duane, L. Krueger, LaValle,

         6       Montgomery, Oppenheimer, Padavan, Perkins,

         7       Saland, Schneiderman, Serrano, Stachowski,

         8       Stavisky, Stewart-Cousins and Thompson.

         9                  Ayes, 45.  Nays, 15.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        11       bill is passed.

        12                  The Secretary will read.

        13                  THE SECRETARY:    In relation to

        14       Calendar Number 477, Senator C. Kruger moves

        15       to discharge, from the Committee on Finance,

        16       Assembly Bill Number 10924 and substitute it

        17       for the identical Senate Bill Number 7689,

        18       Third Reading Calendar 477.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        20       Substitution ordered.

        21                  THE SECRETARY:     Calendar Number

        22       477, by the Assembly Committee on Rules,

        23       Assembly Print Number 10924, an act making

        24       appropriations for the support of government.

        25                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:



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         1       Senator Klein.

         2                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, is

         3       there a message of necessity and appropriation

         4       at the desk?

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         6       Senator Klein, there is a message of necessity

         7       and appropriation at the desk.

         8                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, I

         9       move to accept the message at this time.

        10                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        11       question is on the acceptance of the message

        12       of necessity and appropriation.  All those in

        13       favor please signify by saying aye.

        14                  (Response of "Aye.")

        15                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        16       Opposed, nay.

        17                  (No response.)

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        19       message is accepted.

        20                  Please read the last section.

        21                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Excuse me,

        22       Mr. President.

        23                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        24       Senator Libous, why do you rise?

        25                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you.  I



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         1       believe there's an amendment by Senator

         2       LaValle at the desk.  I would ask that you

         3       waive its reading and call on Senator LaValle,

         4       please.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         6       Senator LaValle's amendment is here at the

         7       desk.  Without objection, the reading is

         8       waived and you may speak on the amendment.

         9                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Thank you,

        10       Mr. President.

        11                  There is an inequity in the bill.

        12       This amendment tries to or does make it fair

        13       and equitable between the State University and

        14       the City University.

        15                  Under this budget, City University

        16       construction projects can move forward.

        17       Effective May 1, SUNY construction projects

        18       have come to a halt.  Needless to say that

        19       workers, contractors throughout this state are

        20       in a neutral position, are not working, are

        21       not moving on projects that need to come to

        22       completion.

        23                  Our laws make an attempt to be

        24       equitable and fair.  And clearly the budget

        25       bill before us treats one system fairly and



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         1       the other system, State University, unfairly.

         2                  This is analogous to the situation

         3       where contractors throughout the state had to

         4       cease to work on their road projects and other

         5       projects in the state.

         6                  So this amendment corrects that

         7       inequity that I can only assume was done

         8       through some oversight.  Thank you.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        10       you, Senator LaValle.

        11                  Senator Klein.

        12                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President,

        13       point of order.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        15       Senator Klein, you may proceed.

        16                  SENATOR KLEIN:    According to

        17       Article 7, Section 4 of the Constitution, the

        18       Legislature may only add single line-item

        19       appropriations stated separately and

        20       distinctly.  Because the items in this

        21       amendment are not single, distinct line items,

        22       the amendment is unconstitutional and

        23       therefore out of order.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Senat

        25       or Klein, your point of order is confirmed and



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         1       the nonsponsor amendment is out of order.

         2                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Mr. President --

         3       Mr. President -- Mr. President --

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         5       Senator Libous.

         6                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Thank you for

         7       recognizing me.  I'd like to challenge the

         8       ruling of the chair, Mr. President.  Because

         9       as I mentioned last week and the previous week

        10       and the previous week before that, we believe

        11       that the amendment is not out of order.  We

        12       believe that --

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        14       Senator Libous, would you like to make a

        15       motion to overrule the ruling of the chair?

        16                  SENATOR LIBOUS:    Yes,

        17       Mr. President, I would.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    All

        19       those in favor of overruling the ruling of the

        20       chair please signify by raising your hands.

        21                  Announce the results.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 27.  Nays,

        23       31.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        25       motion fails.



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         1                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Point of

         2       order.

         3                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         4       Senator DeFrancisco.

         5                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    I thought

         6       there was a reform that said that there's no

         7       empty-chair voting in the State Senate any

         8       longer.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    You're

        10       right.  Senator Robach -- you're referring to

        11       Senator Robach?

        12                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Well,

        13       that -- we can concede Senator Robach.  But

        14       there's not too many chairs that are -- there

        15       are a lot of chairs empty on that side.  You

        16       must have not looked to the left.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    When

        18       voting on a motion with a show of hands, it is

        19       those people who are showing their hands.

        20                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    So under

        21       those circumstances you don't have to be in

        22       your chair, is that the ruling?  If that's the

        23       case --

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        25       Senator Klein.



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         1                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President,

         2       just to clarify Senator DeFrancisco's point,

         3       that's only on controversial bills where a

         4       member has to be in their seat.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         6       Announce the results.

         7                  THE SECRETARY:    Ayes, 29.  Nays,

         8       31.

         9                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

        10       motion fails.

        11                  The main bill is before the house.

        12                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:

        13       Explanation.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    An

        15       explanation has been requested.

        16                  Senator C. Kruger.

        17                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    How did I

        18       guess?

        19                  This bill is once again another

        20       extender covering the period from May 4th to

        21       May 11th.  And it is a bill with $2.3 billion

        22       in an All Funds appropriation and $622 million

        23       in the General Fund appropriation.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        25       Senator DeFrancisco.



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         1                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Yes, before

         2       I ask Senator Kruger to yield, I'm speaking to

         3       all the people who left the chambers.  This is

         4       going to be a very brief discussion, in view

         5       of the lateness of the hour.  And if people

         6       would stay close so we don't have to wait a

         7       half an hour for those chairs to be filled.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    It is

         9       hoped that everyone will stay close so that

        10       when the vote comes it will be expeditious.

        11                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Would

        12       Senator Kruger yield to a question?

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        14       Senator Kruger, will you yield to a question

        15       from Senator DeFrancisco?

        16                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes.

        17       Through you, Mr. President.

        18                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    If I asked

        19       you the same questions that I've asked you in

        20       previous weeks concerning the progress of the

        21       negotiations that are being held privately

        22       between the three New York City leaders,

        23       whether or not -- would your answers be that

        24       the negotiations are ongoing, that you can't

        25       give us any specifics, the reasons you can't



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         1       give us specifics is because the negotiations

         2       are sensitive and the negotiations change from

         3       time to time and you don't want to upset the

         4       rhythm of the negotiations and as soon as we

         5       meets a critical mass we will hear from the

         6       leadership and have a budget bill to be

         7       discussed after it's already negotiated?

         8       Would that be the --

         9                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Give that

        10       man a cigar.

        11                  (Laughter.)

        12                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Would that

        13       be your answer?

        14                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    In all

        15       forms, yes.

        16                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Okay.

        17       Would he yield to one last question?

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Would

        19       you yield to one last question?

        20                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    Yes, I

        21       will, Mr. President.

        22                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Senator

        23       Kruger, do you have anything to add to

        24       enlighten us as to what's happened from last

        25       week to this week?



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         1                  SENATOR CARL KRUGER:    No.

         2                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Thank you.

         3                  On the bill.

         4                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         5       Senator DeFrancisco, on the bill.

         6                  SENATOR DeFRANCISCO:    Now, I did

         7       that simply, quite frankly, to move the

         8       process along, because I think it was pretty

         9       obvious what the answer was going to be from

        10       prior weeks.

        11                  But I just wanted to add a couple

        12       new things that have developed over the last

        13       week as far as things that may be relevant in

        14       getting an open public process going.

        15                  Point number one is that the

        16       Associated General Contractors on April 30th

        17       brought a lawsuit against the state for

        18       withholding payments as well as bid awards on

        19       highways.  And these payments relate to

        20       districts all throughout the State of

        21       New York, contractors not getting paid --

        22       earning interest, by the way, for nonpayments

        23       that are due from the State of New York, which

        24       will further exacerbate the state's cash flow

        25       position.



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         1                  Number two, there is such a thing

         2       as SUNY constructions that take place, and

         3       there's a very short window for SUNY projects

         4       to be done.  There's only a 90-day recess, and

         5       that's the only construction window unless

         6       you're going to displace students.  This work

         7       is going to be not done, we're going to lose

         8       the construction window, and we're going to

         9       have projects that were stalled for another

        10       year in order to get to that window.

        11                  Number three, Senator LaValle in

        12       his motion indicated another upstate/downstate

        13       dichotomy, and not a good one.  I won't

        14       restate all the other ones we've brought up

        15       over the last year and a half, but this one is

        16       a serious one.  Because of the statute, CUNY

        17       projects can go forward -- CUNY, from the City

        18       of New York, they can go forward.  SUNY

        19       projects cannot.

        20                  Now, if that isn't a disparity

        21       between upstate and the downstate area that

        22       clearly controls this budget process that has

        23       gone nowhere and is over a month late now,

        24       then I don't know what does display that

        25       disparity.



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         1                  Lastly and most importantly, while

         2       whatever is not going on continues to not go

         3       on behind closed doors, the Comptroller has

         4       advised us and advised the world that by the

         5       end of May -- it's not too far off, it's three

         6       more extenders -- the General Fund balance in

         7       the State of New York is going to be

         8       $500 million.  And the DOB estimates that the

         9       short-term investment pool and other sole

        10       custody accounts will be $1 billion short as

        11       of June, making emergency bill payments and

        12       the payments to the schools unable to be paid

        13       made.  So although we get the same answers to

        14       our same questions week after week, this is

        15       serious business.

        16                  And the most -- and lastly, the

        17       thing I almost forgot, the Governor has

        18       mentioned furloughs of state employees.  And

        19       he's threatened next week that if we don't

        20       handle the furlough bill as a stand-alone

        21       bill, it's going to be part of the extender

        22       next week.

        23                  Now, that's going to put a lot of

        24       people in a very difficult vote.  Do you vote

        25       to not have an extender as long as it has



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         1       furloughs for state employees?  It's going to

         2       be a very difficult vote.

         3                  So I'm urging everyone, in view of

         4       all of those factors, in view of the fact that

         5       no progress has been made, we're over a month

         6       late, that we vote no at this time -- not wait

         7       till next week when we have to furlough

         8       employees -- so that we can make sure we get a

         9       budget.  And a budget is necessary for all of

        10       us for many reasons, in addition to the

        11       reasons I gave you.

        12                  So I'm going to vote no when the

        13       vote is called today on this bill.  Thank you.

        14                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        15       you, Senator DeFrancisco.

        16                  Senator Flanagan, on the bill.

        17                  SENATOR FLANAGAN:    Thank you,

        18       Mr. President.  On the bill.

        19                  I'm going to refrain from asking

        20       questions and just make a couple of points

        21       relative to the education portion of this

        22       budget.

        23                  Last week when we did the extender,

        24       there was about $2.5 billion appropriated in

        25       aid to education.  All meritorious, all



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         1       valuable, all beneficial to our school

         2       districts.  Last week we offered an amendment

         3       to allow for the employee liability reserve

         4       funds to be used as the Governor had proposed,

         5       as the Senate Democrats had proposed, and as

         6       the Assembly Democrats had proposed, and the

         7       amendment was defeated along party lines.

         8                  Last week, or as we came into this

         9       week, the Governor sent up two bills -- an

        10       appropriation bill, which we have before us,

        11       and an Article 7 bill, which very simply would

        12       have allowed for the use of those funds.

        13                  So I marvel at the discussion that

        14       we've had today talking about charter schools

        15       and the Race to the Top and public policy and

        16       education, and we spent about two hours

        17       talking about $700 million that we may get.

        18       And I think that discussion was worthwhile.

        19                  But it is appalling to me that

        20       we're standing here now and we are not going

        21       to take up a bill that was introduced by the

        22       Majority.  That's a bill, ladies and

        23       gentlemen, that everyone knows doesn't cost

        24       the State of New York a dime.  It doesn't cost

        25       the financial plan anything.  The Comptroller



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         1       has come out and said there's over

         2       $400 million available to over 251 school

         3       districts in the State of New York where they

         4       could access that money to help prevent

         5       layoffs, help reduce their tax levy, and help

         6       the overburdened property taxpayer in the

         7       State of New York.

         8                  You failed to get it out here on

         9       the floor.  That's a $400 million member item,

        10       like that [snapping fingers] that goes right

        11       to school districts that would be very

        12       beneficial to the vote that's coming up the

        13       third Tuesday in May.

        14                  So as we move ahead, I can

        15       guarantee you I'm going home and I'm putting

        16       the blame right at the Senate Democrats' door

        17       and the Assembly Democrats' door, because the

        18       chance is there, it's a no-brainer, it should

        19       have been done.

        20                  And I give credit to the Governor

        21       because he listened, he listened and put it in

        22       his appropriation bill.  We should have acted

        23       on it.  It should be here now, it could be

        24       chaptered tonight and school districts could

        25       plan accordingly and benefit the property



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         1       taxpayers.  But you chose not to do the right

         2       thing, and they're going to be hurting as a

         3       result.

         4                  I'm going to vote no.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

         6       you, Senator Flanagan.

         7                  Senator Marcellino, on the bill.

         8                  SENATOR MARCELLINO:    Thank you,

         9       Mr. President.  On the bill.

        10                  As I have on all the other extender

        11       bills that have come before us, I fully intend

        12       to vote no on this bill.  I don't believe we

        13       need an extender, I know we need a budget.

        14       It's that simple.  We need an on-time budget,

        15       we're a month past that deadline, and frankly,

        16       from what I'm hearing, absolutely nothing

        17       seems to be happening.  Talk to people on the

        18       other side, they say they're not talking to

        19       us.  Talk to people here, they don't know

        20       whether they're talking to them.

        21                  We are not getting the facts here.

        22       And there doesn't seem to be any movement

        23       moving along.

        24                  Where the Governor is picking to

        25       pay certain projects -- if it's federal money,



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         1       those workers who are lucky enough to be on

         2       that job will get paid.  If it's state money

         3       or local money with some state add, those

         4       workers will not work.  Now we're picking and

         5       choosing which families are going to have

         6       bread on the table or not.  I think that's

         7       outrageous and not credible.

         8                  SUNY is not going to get its

         9       projects.  These are projects with new

        10       buildings, repairs and maintenance of existing

        11       buildings that are necessary.  Infrastructure,

        12       roads, all that not being done.

        13                  Now, Senator Little before was

        14       mentioning at one of our conferences that some

        15       of the asphalt plants upstate will close down

        16       when the weather starts getting cold.  Which

        17       means those projects for road improvements and

        18       the like are not going to be able to move

        19       ahead because there's not going to be any

        20       asphalt.  Well, that's going to be great.

        21       More workers unemployed, more people not

        22       getting a paycheck.

        23                  School districts, as our colleague

        24       Senator Flanagan just pointed out, have a vote

        25       coming.  They're not sure what to do.  Will



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         1       they take a high number, a low number?  What's

         2       their state aid?  What's going to impact their

         3       levy?  What's going to impact their taxpayers?

         4       They don't know.  They can't answer the

         5       question.  They call me, I say I don't know.

         6       I go and ask my colleagues on the other side,

         7       and they don't know.  So we're getting no help

         8       from anybody.

         9                  This is not a healthy situation.

        10       This is not a good situation for any one of

        11       us.  And it looks bad, it smells bad and it is

        12       bad, quite honestly.  Nobody can say this is a

        13       good thing.  And I don't hear that happening.

        14       We're not moving forward in the right

        15       direction.  The taxpayers are saying "What are

        16       you doing?  Where's my budget?  What's the

        17       deal?  What are we going to do here?"  And all

        18       we're getting is stall, stall, stall.  Not

        19       helpful.

        20                  Mr. President, I'm going to vote no

        21       on this extender, and I intend to vote no on

        22       every extender until we get a budget.  Because

        23       we don't need extenders, we need a budget.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        25       you, Senator Marcellino.



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         1                  Senator Saland, on the bill.

         2                  SENATOR SALAND:    Thank you,

         3       Mr. President.

         4                  Mr. President, I believe it was

         5       about three weeks ago when we did another

         6       extender bill -- and this is starting to seem

         7       like Groundhog Day -- that I stood up and

         8       said, "I've always supported extenders but at

         9       some point in time I'm not sure if I can

        10       continue to support extenders."

        11                  That point in time has arrived.  We

        12       have passed with the great fanfare, great

        13       patting ourselves on the back in 2007 a budget

        14       reform act.  And that Budget Reform Act was

        15       supposed to take us away from the bad old days

        16       and set us on a course where late budgets

        17       would now be a thing of the past.

        18                  Well, they're a thing of the

        19       present, and they seem to be going on here

        20       now, today, interminably.  And it seems like

        21       there's nothing in sight, no light at the end

        22       of the tunnel.

        23                  The simple fact of the matter is

        24       that bill, as best as I can recall, was much

        25       heralded everywhere.  We gave ourselves a lot



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         1       of credit, in bipartisan fashion, for

         2       accomplishing it.  It was the beginning of a

         3       new day.  It was a reform.  And that reform

         4       has been absolutely, totally ignored.  And

         5       instead, we get week by week these extenders.

         6                  And what we're doing is trying,

         7       somehow or other, to delay the inevitable.

         8       Dealing with the absolutely horrible fiscal

         9       plight that we find ourselves in, perhaps

        10       closing our eyes and trying to wish it away --

        11       perhaps some of us would prefer putting our

        12       heads in the sand and maybe it will go away.

        13                  It is not going to go away.  It

        14       will be here until we deal with it.  No

        15       extender is going to get us any closer to a

        16       resolution.  It requires the ability to make

        17       difficult decisions and make them now.  Nobody

        18       enjoys that prospect.  But delaying of its

        19       inevitability merely compounds the problem.

        20                  So why not, why not do what we were

        21       sent here to do and surprise people by showing

        22       that we can do it and get to the task of

        23       passing a budget?  Is that not our

        24       responsibility?  The Governor has given us his

        25       budget.  Where is the legislative response?



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         1                  I look around the other side of the

         2       aisle, I don't think there's eight to 10

         3       people sitting in the chamber.  This is an

         4       extender.  It's supposed to be important

         5       stuff.  This is the stuff that's supposed to

         6       keep us going.  Well, the simple fact of the

         7       matter is it's not keeping us going, it's

         8       merely digging the hole deeper as we mire in

         9       our own mess.  It's time for us to act.

        10                  Mr. President, I cannot support

        11       another extender.  I will not support another

        12       extender.  I implore this body, I beg this

        13       body to accept our responsibilities and get

        14       the job done.  Delay is not an ally, it just

        15       causes more pain.

        16                  Thank you, Mr. President.

        17                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Thank

        18       you, Senator Saland.

        19                  The debate is closed.

        20                  The Secretary will ring the bell.

        21                  Read the last section.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Section 2.  This

        23       act shall take effect immediately.

        24                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    Call

        25       the roll.



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         1                  (The Secretary called the roll.)

         2                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         3       Senator LaValle, to explain his vote.

         4                  SENATOR LaVALLE:    Thank you,

         5       Mr. President.  Very briefly.

         6                  All of us have heard throughout the

         7       preceding months about having projects that

         8       are shovel-ready.  Shovel-ready, those were

         9       the magic words.  Here we have projects that

        10       are being stopped.  Others that should be

        11       online have never made it across the line.

        12                  It is shameful.  And I don't know

        13       what the Governor is thinking to pit one area

        14       of the state, New York City, against those

        15       communities outside of New York City who will

        16       be hurt by not having their construction

        17       projects moving forward.

        18                  I vote no.

        19                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        20       Senator LaValle will be recorded in the

        21       negative.

        22                  Senator Stavisky, to explain her

        23       vote.

        24                  SENATOR STAVISKY:    Yes.  I vote

        25       aye.



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         1                  The budget resolution which we

         2       passed in this chamber took the SUNY

         3       Construction Fund off-budget so that it would

         4       be comparable to the CUNY Construction Fund.

         5       And I might remind you that everybody on the

         6       other side of the aisle voted against that.

         7                  Thank you.  I vote aye.

         8                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

         9       Senator Stavisky will be recorded in the

        10       affirmative.

        11                  Senator Owen Johnson, to explain

        12       his vote.

        13                  SENATOR JOHNSON:    I am voting

        14       against this temporary budget measure, as I

        15       did last week.

        16                  And I discovered that we did have a

        17       procedure for conference committees to deal

        18       with issues like this, but we don't use that.

        19       We have a new system now we learned from

        20       China.  It's called the Chinese water torture.

        21       And every week you drop a little piece of the

        22       budget on top of the people of this state and

        23       try to keep them happy.  They're not happy.

        24       They don't like that procedure.

        25                  Ten days from now, we have the vote



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         1       on the school budgets.  The schools don't know

         2       what money they have.  They can't plan their

         3       budgets accordingly.  Every municipality has

         4       the same thing, every business has the same

         5       problem.

         6                  So we can't go on like this.  It's

         7       totally outrageous, it really is.  And we had

         8       lamentations years ago about three men in a

         9       room.  At least they got something done.

        10       Where's our three men?  Where's anybody

        11       working on this budget?

        12                  It's terrible.  I'm voting no.

        13                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        14       Senator Owen Johnson will be recorded in the

        15       negative.

        16                  Senator Griffo, to explain his

        17       vote.

        18                  SENATOR GRIFFO:    Mr. President,

        19       thank you.

        20                  I have voted against the extenders

        21       because I believe that we need a budget.  And

        22       I was disappointed today with the Senate

        23       Finance chair when he chuckled, actually, when

        24       he was responding to the question that Senator

        25       DeFrancisco asked because it was the same



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         1       question, indicating that there are ongoing

         2       negotiations.  And yet the Assembly Majority

         3       Leader says that not the case.  The Lieutenant

         4       Governor says that's not the case.

         5                  So where are we?  What are we

         6       really doing here?  You asked the people to

         7       entrust you, to put you in charge.  You're in

         8       charge, and you're not getting the job done.

         9       People don't care about the past, that there

        10       were late budgets before.  They want to know

        11       what you're doing now, today, to meet the

        12       challenges that are there before us.

        13                  I think this is unacceptable, to

        14       ignore, purposely, deadlines, to wilfully

        15       violate the Budget Reform Act of 2007.  Get

        16       your act together.  Let's get the job done.

        17                  I vote no.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

        19       Senator Griffo will be recorded in the

        20       negative.

        21                  Announce the results.

        22                  THE SECRETARY:    Those recorded in

        23       the negative on Calendar Number 477 are

        24       Senators DeFrancisco, Flanagan, Golden,

        25       Griffo, Hannon, O. Johnson, Larkin, LaValle,



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         1       Leibell, Little, Marcellino, Maziarz,

         2       Nozzolio, Padavan, Ranzenhofer, Saland,

         3       Seward, Skelos, Volker, Winner and Young.

         4                  Ayes, 39.  Nays, 21.

         5                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    The

         6       bill is passed.

         7                  Senator Klein, that completes the

         8       reading of the controversial supplemental

         9       calendar.

        10                  SENATOR KLEIN:    Mr. President, is

        11       there any further business at the desk?

        12                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    No,

        13       Senator Klein, the desk is clear.

        14                  SENATOR KLEIN:    There being no

        15       further business, Mr. President, I move that

        16       we adjourn until Tuesday, May 4th, at

        17       3:00 p.m.

        18                  ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:    There

        19       being no further business, the Senate is

        20       adjourned until Tuesday, May 4th, at 3:00 p.m.

        21                  (Whereupon, at 7:51 p.m., the

        22       Senate adjourned.)

        23

        24

        25



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