Regular Session - March 7, 2012

                                                                   816

 1               NEW YORK STATE SENATE

 2                          

 3                          

 4              THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

 5                          

 6                          

 7                          

 8                          

 9                  ALBANY, NEW YORK

10                   March 7, 2012

11                     12:12 p.m.

12                          

13                          

14                  REGULAR SESSION

15  

16  

17  

18  SENATOR JOSEPH A. GRIFFO, Acting President

19  FRANCIS W. PATIENCE, Secretary

20  

21  

22  

23  

24  

25  

                                                               817

 1              P R O C E E D I N G S

 2               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The 

 3  Senate will come to order.  

 4               I ask all present to please rise 

 5  and join with me as we recite the Pledge of 

 6  Allegiance to our Flag.

 7               (Whereupon, the assemblage 

 8  recited the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

 9               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   For 

10  today's invocation we are joined by 

11  Mrs. Judith Rapley Waterman, minister of the 

12  New Hope Christian Fellowship Church in 

13  Queens, New York.  

14               Reverend Waterman.

15               REVEREND WATERMAN:   Let us join 

16  together in the spirit of prayer.

17               Dear heavenly Father, almighty, 

18  eternal and ever-wise God, I come to You 

19  thanking You and praising You for this great 

20  nation.  I thank You for the plan You gave to 

21  our forefathers by which to govern our nation 

22  and for the division of power wherein our 

23  destiny does not rest in the hands of one 

24  person.  

25               We come giving You thanks and 

                                                               818

 1  praise for Your awesome love and divine and 

 2  sovereign power.  We bow our heads today to 

 3  praise You in humbleness and sincerity and ask 

 4  Your manifested presence in this place today.  

 5               Your word urges us to make 

 6  requests, prayers, intercessions and 

 7  thanksgiving known for all men and women, 

 8  including those in government and those in 

 9  authority.  So I bring and lift up before You 

10  all the State Senators and all those who work 

11  alongside them before You.  As they do for 

12  others, God, do for them and their families 

13  and their loved ones.  

14               I pray that by Your power that 

15  these men and women will make laws that are 

16  just.  I ask You to give them wisdom to make 

17  decisions that will strengthen and prosper our 

18  state, our nation and our people.  It is our 

19  desire that they make right and righteous 

20  decisions concerning the politics, the social 

21  welfare, and the economics of this state.  

22               Help them to rule and govern with 

23  a sound mind.  For indeed, O God, You have not 

24  given any of us a spirit of fear, but of power 

25  and of love and of a sound mind.  

                                                               819

 1               I pray that they'll be motivated by 

 2  Your love, infused by Your passion, led by Your 

 3  hand.  May they govern with integrity.  May they 

 4  govern with compassion.  May they govern in 

 5  peace.  Give them, O God, the mind to work 

 6  together, for it is in Jesus's name that I pray.  

 7               And the Senate said amen.

 8               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Thank 

 9  you, Reverend Waterman.  

10               The reading of the Journal.

11               THE SECRETARY:   In Senate, 

12  Tuesday, March 6th, the Senate met pursuant to 

13  adjournment.  The Journal of Monday, March 5th, 

14  was read and approved.  On motion, Senate 

15  adjourned.

16               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Without 

17  objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

18               Presentation of petitions.

19               Messages from the Assembly.

20               The Secretary will read the 

21  substitution.

22               THE SECRETARY:   On page 16, 

23  Senator Larkin moves to discharge, from the 

24  Committee on Local Government, Assembly Bill 

25  Number 2603B and substitute it for the identical 

                                                               820

 1  Senate Bill Number 6430, Third Reading Calendar 

 2  233.

 3               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    

 4  Substitution so ordered.

 5               Messages from the Governor.

 6               Reports of standing committees.

 7               Reports of select committees.

 8               Communications and reports from 

 9  state officers.

10               Motions and resolutions.

11               Senator Libous.

12               SENATOR PERKINS:   Mr. President.

13               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:  Senator 

14  Libous.  

15               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Mr. President, I 

16  believe Senator Perkins has the floor.

17               SENATOR PERKINS:   Thank you very 

18  much.

19               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   I did 

20  not recognize you yet, Senator Perkins.  Why do 

21  you rise?

22               SENATOR PERKINS:   I want to take a 

23  point of personal privilege.

24               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   State 

25  your point, Senator Perkins.

                                                               821

 1               SENATOR PERKINS:   Thank you very 

 2  much.  

 3               It is with great disappointment 

 4  that I rise today.  Senate Resolution Number --

 5               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Mr. President, 

 6  point of order.

 7               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

 8  Libous, why do you rise?

 9               SENATOR LIBOUS:   I don't believe 

10  the Resolution Calendar is before us yet.

11               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The 

12  Resolution Calendar is not before us.  

13               Senator Perkins, you're out of 

14  order, please.  

15               Senator Libous.  

16               SENATOR PERKINS:   I just want to 

17  make a point of --

18               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

19  Perkins, you're out of order.  The Resolution 

20  Calendar is not before us.  

21               I recognize Senator Libous.  

22  Senator Libous, please proceed.

23               SENATOR PERKINS:   May I --

24               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

25  Perkins, you are out of order.

                                                               822

 1               SENATOR PERKINS:   Point of 

 2  personal privilege.  I just --

 3               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Your 

 4  point of personal privilege is not accepted.

 5               Senator Libous.

 6               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Mr. President, I 

 7  would move at this time that we accept the 

 8  Resolution Calendar.

 9               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    The 

10  motion is on accepting the Resolution Calendar.  

11  All in favor signify by saying aye.  

12               (Response of "Aye.")

13               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   

14  Opposed?  

15               (No response.)

16               SENATOR PERKINS:   Mr. President --

17               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The ayes 

18  have taken it.  The Resolution Calendar is 

19  adopted.

20               Senator Perkins, why do you rise?

21               SENATOR PERKINS:   Thank you very 

22  much.  

23               It is with great disappointment 

24  that I rise today.  Senate Resolution Number 

25  3513 --

                                                               823

 1               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

 2  Perkins, the Resolution Calendar has been 

 3  adopted.  You are conducting business on 

 4  something that's not appropriate.  You cannot 

 5  speak on this.  The Resolution Calendar was 

 6  before the house.  You cannot speak on that 

 7  particular point that you have raised.

 8               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Mr. President.

 9               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

10  Libous.

11               SENATOR LIBOUS:   In the spirit of 

12  cooperation, because Senator Perkins did want to 

13  stand, I would allow him to make his point on the 

14  Resolution Calendar.

15               SENATOR PERKINS:   Thank you very 

16  much.

17               SENATOR LIBOUS:   If you would, 

18  please.

19               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

20  Libous --

21               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Make his point on 

22  the Resolution Calendar.

23               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   On the 

24  Resolution Calendar?  

25               SENATOR LIBOUS:   That's correct.

                                                               824

 1               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   You 

 2  cannot speak on a specific resolution, then, 

 3  Senator.  

 4               SENATOR PERKINS:   Thank you very 

 5  much.  

 6               Again, it is with great 

 7  disappointment that I rise today.  Senate 

 8  Resolution Number 3513, a resolution that urges 

 9  the New York State congressional delegation to 

10  support passage of the federal DREAM Act, has 

11  been blocked from coming to the floor for 

12  consideration --

13               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

14  Libous, why do you rise?  

15               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Mr. President, I 

16  believe that Senator Perkins is out of order 

17  because he's speaking on specific resolutions 

18  that may not be before the house or were not 

19  before the house this morning.  

20               That does not mean that those 

21  resolutions will not come before the house in the 

22  future.  

23               I would ask you, Mr. President, to 

24  make sure that Senator Perkins's comments are 

25  based on what is on the Resolution Calendar that 

                                                               825

 1  passed.  Making comment about something that is 

 2  not before the house or was not before the house 

 3  is not appropriate.

 4               SENATOR PERKINS:   It is my 

 5  understanding --

 6               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

 7  Perkins, we do not have jurisdiction over 

 8  something that is not before the body.  

 9               I have given you latitude based 

10  upon the request from Senator Libous.  However, 

11  you are out of order.  The Resolution Calendar 

12  has been adopted.  You cannot speak further on 

13  that particular issue.  So I would ask you to 

14  please move on now.  

15               So that is complete.  The chair -- 

16  I will not recognize -- the point of personal 

17  privilege is not well-taken.

18               Senator Duane, why do you rise?

19               SENATOR DUANE:   Mr. President, 

20  among many of the resolutions on the calendar 

21  today is one which commends a member of the order 

22  of Sons of Italy, which would indicate that the 

23  Sons of Italy came from Italy, which would be an 

24  immigration issue.  And so the relevance of the 

25  DREAM Act I believe would be appropriate to 

                                                               826

 1  discuss at this time.

 2               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

 3  Duane -- Senator Duane.

 4               SENATOR DUANE:   (Inaudible.)

 5               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   With all 

 6  due respect, Senator Duane, the Resolution 

 7  Calendar has been adopted.

 8               SENATOR DUANE:   -- unless 

 9  they're -- unless they're Native American, 

10  Mr. President.

11               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   You are 

12  speaking beyond -- unacceptable things.  

13               Senator Duane, you're out of order.

14               SENATOR DUANE:   Well, I'm sorry to 

15  hear that, Mr. President.

16               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

17  Krueger, why do you rise? 

18               SENATOR KRUEGER:   Point of 

19  clarification of the rules, Senator.  If I may 

20  ask.  

21               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   State 

22  your point of clarification, Senator Krueger.

23               SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.  So 

24  we rapidly opened and closed for the Resolution 

25  Calendar.  Senator Perkins wanted to point out 

                                                               827

 1  one of his resolutions was rejected.  I would 

 2  like to point out one of my resolutions was 

 3  rejected.  I believe Senator Hassell-Thompson 

 4  also had one.

 5               When should we expect a written 

 6  document explaining why our resolutions have been 

 7  rejected?

 8               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The 

 9  Resolution Calendar, Senator Krueger, cannot be 

10  debated independently.  You have that opportunity 

11  at the table at the appropriate committee to 

12  debate that particular resolution.  If you are 

13  presenting a resolution --

14               SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm sorry, I 

15  don't understand.  My question wasn't about a 

16  committee.

17               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Mr. President, 

18  could you create some order.  I believe Senator 

19  Krueger has the floor, and I'm hearing a lot of 

20  voices.

21               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   First of 

22  all, let me have order in the chamber.  

23               Let us continue the question that 

24  Senator Krueger raised.  Excuse me, Senator 

25  Krueger.

                                                               828

 1               There are two issues, Senator 

 2  Krueger.  First, under Article III -- 

 3  Rule III-9e, the Temporary President of the 

 4  Senate has the authority to set the Resolution 

 5  Calendar and has followed consistent practice in 

 6  that regard.

 7               Secondly, relative to a debate on 

 8  the calendar before us today, you do not have the 

 9  opportunity -- if a resolution is on the 

10  calendar, a member can then take that particular 

11  resolution off if they so inquire or suggest.  

12  However, if a resolution is not before the body, 

13  you cannot discuss a resolution that you have an 

14  idea for if it's not before this legislative 

15  body.  

16               So you're attempting to discuss a 

17  resolution that you may be preparing or proposing 

18  but is not before this body for deliberation at 

19  this point in time.  And that is not appropriate, 

20  in accordance with our rules.

21               SENATOR KRUEGER:   Actually, 

22  Mr. President, if we would ask for a reading of 

23  the transcript, I did not ask any of that.  I 

24  asked --

25               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   I'm 

                                                               829

 1  sorry.  I'm sorry, Senator Krueger, I thought 

 2  that's what you had asked, but I apologize.

 3               SENATOR KRUEGER:   So let me try 

 4  again.

 5               I attempted to ask when members 

 6  whose resolutions have been rejected can expect a 

 7  written answer as to the basis by which their 

 8  resolutions were rejected.  You said something 

 9  about at the proper committee table.  

10               I'm not aware what committee 

11  resolutions go through.  So I'm asking a question 

12  about the process of the floor of the Senate.

13               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Thank 

14  you, Senator Krueger.

15               Senator Libous.

16               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Mr. President, I 

17  think I can help Senator Krueger with an answer 

18  to her question.

19               Because a resolution is not on a 

20  Resolution Calendar, it doesn't mean that that 

21  resolution is rejected.  Resolutions are 

22  submitted to the floor by issue of the Temporary 

23  President.  He has or she has responsibility of 

24  putting resolutions on a calendar.

25               It is for whatever reason 

                                                               830

 1  misunderstood today that because there are 

 2  certain resolutions that are not on the calendar, 

 3  that they're not coming before the house.  And I 

 4  don't know if they are or they're not.  But just 

 5  because the resolution is not on today's calendar 

 6  and has been submitted, it could come before the 

 7  house at any time between now and the end of 

 8  session.  But that is the sole discretion of the 

 9  Temporary President and Majority Leader.

10               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   There is 

11  no jurisdiction to debate something that is not 

12  before the body.  I think that is clear.  

13               I think the point I was making -- 

14  and I'm not sure, because I don't want to 

15  speculate here, but many resolutions do come 

16  through Finance and have been put forward through 

17  Finance.

18               SENATOR KRUEGER:   Mr. President, 

19  if through you I may continue my question.

20               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   You may.

21               SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.

22               So I'm hearing from --

23               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Mr. President.  

24               Senator Krueger -- and I'm sorry, I 

25  don't mean to be disrespectful, but I just need 

                                                               831

 1  to make a statement on what he said because I 

 2  think it has to do with the answer to your 

 3  question.

 4               SENATOR KRUEGER:   I yield.

 5               SENATOR LIBOUS:   It is not custom 

 6  and practice for any resolutions to go through 

 7  any particular committee.

 8               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Thank 

 9  you very much for that clarification, 

10  Senator Libous.  

11               SENATOR KRUEGER:   So again, 

12  Mr. President, just so -- because there's been 

13  some confusion, it is -- what I am being told 

14  today is resolutions don't go through a committee 

15  process so we can't appeal through a committee.  

16               They are at the discretion of the 

17  President Pro Tem of the Senate.  That 

18  resolutions can be considered at any time during 

19  session but may not show up on any particular 

20  calendar.  

21               And yet if we end session and we 

22  have not seen our resolutions, what is the 

23  procedure for finding out the basis by which a 

24  resolution has not been taken up by this house?  

25  I am suggesting a correct protocol would be to 

                                                               832

 1  put in writing the basis for a rejection of a 

 2  resolution so that we can have a discussion.  

 3               I do have a concern that, 

 4  disproportionately, resolutions impacting women 

 5  of the State of New York do not get through the 

 6  Resolution Calendar.

 7               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

 8  Krueger, we have had the -- again, we're 

 9  deliberating over something that has gone beyond 

10  the point of consideration.  

11               So your points are taken into 

12  consideration.  I will reiterate again that these 

13  are rules that have been established and followed 

14  in the last term of the Legislature as well as 

15  this term of the Legislature, and I quoted you 

16  Rule III-9e.  

17               So I would ask that we now move on.

18               SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm sorry, 

19  Mr. President, just -- I have asked a question 

20  about whether there is a procedure or protocol 

21  for explaining to a Senator --

22               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

23  Libous, why do you rise?

24               SENATOR KRUEGER:   -- why a 

25  resolution has not moved.

                                                               833

 1               SENATOR LIBOUS:   I'd like to help 

 2  Senator Krueger, if I may.

 3               SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.  

 4  Please.

 5               SENATOR LIBOUS:   I mean, she asked 

 6  a question, Mr. President; I'd be more than 

 7  happy. 

 8               And I don't want to just repeat 

 9  what the President said, but this is the same 

10  protocol that, when you were in the majority, 

11  that you followed.  They were up to the 

12  discretion of the Temporary President and the 

13  Majority Leader.  I believe at one time it was 

14  Senator Smith, at another time Senator Sampson.  

15               That has not changed.  That was 

16  what it was then and it is what it is now.  

17  Nobody is stating here that resolutions that have 

18  been submitted will not be looked at at a future 

19  time.  But the protocol for resolutions has not 

20  changed in decades.  Decades.

21               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

22  Libous and Senator Krueger, I'm going to tell you 

23  both now, I've used great leniency and discretion 

24  here.  We have already passed a Resolution 

25  Calendar.  We are discussing a matter that has 

                                                               834

 1  passed this body that is not in conjunction with 

 2  our rules of procedure here, so I'm going to move 

 3  on now.  I'm going to ask Senator Libous if we 

 4  can move on with the reading of the calendar.

 5               Senator Espaillat, why do you rise?

 6               SENATOR ESPAILLAT:   Mr. President, 

 7  I would like to address one of the resolutions in 

 8  the calendar.

 9               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

10  Espaillat, I'm going to say it one more time.  

11  The Resolution Calendar has been adopted.  We 

12  cannot go back now.  We're moving on to the next 

13  portion of business before this body.

14               SENATOR ESPAILLAT:   Point of 

15  personal privilege, Mr. President.

16               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   I will 

17  listen to your point of --

18               SENATOR ESPAILLAT:   There is a 

19  resolution in the calendar, Resolution 3464, that 

20  I would like to speak to.

21               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Mr. President.

22               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

23  Libous.

24               SENATOR LIBOUS:   In all due 

25  respect to Senator Espaillat, the Resolution 

                                                               835

 1  Calendar has been passed, and we're beyond that.

 2               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Well, we 

 3  would require unanimous consent to do that, 

 4  Senator Libous, anyway.  So is there any 

 5  objection to moving back?

 6               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Yes.

 7               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Yes, I 

 8  hear an objection.  Therefore, we will not be 

 9  able to move back.  

10               So, Senator Espaillat, thank you 

11  very much.  

12               Senator Libous, can we move on with 

13  the agenda now.

14               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Can we now have 

15  the reading of the noncontroversial calendar, 

16  please.

17               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The 

18  Secretary will read.

19               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

20  213, by Senator Carlucci, Senate Print --

21               SENATOR PARKER:   Lay it aside.

22               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Lay it 

23  aside.

24               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

25  214, by Senator Carlucci --

                                                               836

 1               SENATOR PARKER:   Lay it aside.

 2               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Lay it 

 3  aside.

 4               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 5  215, by Senator Zeldin --

 6               SENATOR PARKER:   Lay it aside.

 7               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Lay it 

 8  aside.

 9               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

10  217, by Senator Zeldin --

11               SENATOR PARKER:   Lay it aside.

12               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Lay it 

13  aside.

14               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

15  219, by Senator Breslin --

16               SENATOR HUNTLEY:   Lay it aside.

17               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Lay it 

18  aside.

19               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

20  221, by Senator Skelos --

21               SENATOR PARKER:   Lay it aside.

22               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Lay it 

23  aside.

24               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

25  222, by Senator Skelos --

                                                               837

 1               SENATOR PARKER:   Lay it aside.

 2               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Lay it 

 3  aside.

 4               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 5  223, by Senator Skelos --

 6               SENATOR PARKER:   Lay it aside.

 7               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Lay it 

 8  aside.

 9               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

10  225, by Senator Skelos --

11               SENATOR PARKER:   Lay it aside.

12               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Lay it 

13  aside.

14               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

15  226, by Senator Skelos --

16               SENATOR PARKER:   Lay it aside.

17               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Lay it 

18  aside.

19               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Mr. President, 

20  can we have some order in the chamber.  I'm 

21  having an awful time hearing the Journal Clerk.  

22               I know there seems to be high 

23  emotion today, and that's fine, but there still 

24  is decorum and order that we need to have while 

25  the bills are being read.

                                                               838

 1               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   I would 

 2  ask all members and staff to keep conversations 

 3  outside the chamber, if at all possible.  

 4               And the Secretary will continue to 

 5  read.

 6               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 7  227, by Senator Oppenheimer, Senate Print 6301, 

 8  an act to authorize the Beth El Synagogue.

 9               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Read the 

10  last section.

11               THE SECRETARY:   Section --

12               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Lay it aside.

13               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Lay it 

14  aside.

15               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

16  228, by Senator Carlucci --

17               SENATOR PARKER:   Lay it aside.

18               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Lay it 

19  aside.

20               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

21  229, by Senator Carlucci --

22               SENATOR PARKER:   Lay it aside.

23               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Lay it 

24  aside.

25               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

                                                               839

 1  230, by Senator Carlucci --

 2               SENATOR HUNTLEY:   Lay it aside.

 3               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Lay it 

 4  aside.

 5               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 6  231, by Senator Carlucci --

 7               SENATOR PARKER:   Lay it aside.

 8               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Lay it 

 9  aside.

10               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

11  232, by Senator Johnson -- 

12               SENATOR HUNTLEY:   Lay it aside.

13               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Lay it 

14  aside.

15               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

16  233, by Member of the Assembly Rabbitt --

17               SENATOR HUNTLEY:   Lay it aside.

18               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Lay it 

19  aside.  

20               Senator Libous, that completes the 

21  noncontroversial reading of the calendar.

22               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Mr. President, 

23  can we now have the controversial reading of the 

24  calendar.

25               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The 

                                                               840

 1  Secretary will ring the bell.  

 2               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Can we move on 

 3  with the noncontroversial calendar.

 4               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The 

 5  Senate will come to order.

 6               The Secretary will read.

 7               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 8  213, by Senator Carlucci --

 9               SENATOR PARKER:   Explanation.

10               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:    

11  Explanation requested.  

12               Senator Carlucci.

13               SENATOR CARLUCCI:   Thank you, 

14  Mr. President.

15               This bill authorizes the St. James 

16  Mar Thoma Church in the Village of Hillburn to 

17  file an application for exemption from real 

18  property taxes.

19               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

20  Parker.  

21               SENATOR PARKER:   May I ask a 

22  question of the bill sponsor.  

23               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

24  Carlucci, do you yield?  

25               SENATOR CARLUCCI:   Yes.

                                                               841

 1               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

 2  Parker.

 3               SENATOR PARKER:   Through you, 

 4  Mr. President.  What's the address of the 

 5  St. James Mar Thoma Church of Rockland, Inc.?

 6               SENATOR CARLUCCI:   Thank you, 

 7  Senator Parker.  It's located in the Village of 

 8  Hillburn.  I don't have the exact address in 

 9  front of me.

10               SENATOR PARKER:   Mr. President, 

11  will the sponsor continue to yield.

12               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Will the 

13  sponsor continue to yield?  

14               SENATOR CARLUCCI:   Yes.

15               SENATOR PARKER:   Through you, 

16  Mr. President.

17               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

18  Parker.  

19               SENATOR PARKER:   Thank you, 

20  Senator Carlucci.  Senator Carlucci -- through 

21  you, Mr. President -- who is the pastor of the 

22  St. James Mar Thoma Church of Rockland?  

23               SENATOR CARLUCCI:   I don't have 

24  that information in front of me.

25               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

                                                               842

 1  Parker.  

 2               SENATOR PARKER:   Through you, 

 3  Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to 

 4  yield.

 5               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Sponsor, 

 6  do you continue to yield?

 7               SENATOR CARLUCCI:   Yes.

 8               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The 

 9  sponsor yields.

10               SENATOR PARKER:   Thank you, 

11  Senator Carlucci.  

12               Through you, Mr. President.  Do we 

13  know how many members of the congregation there 

14  are at the St. James Mar Thoma Church of 

15  Rockland?  

16               SENATOR CARLUCCI:   Thank you for 

17  the question.  

18               I don't have the exact numbers, but 

19  it's a wonderful church in the Village of 

20  Hillburn.  They do a lot of good work for the 

21  community and members and serve the entire 

22  community of Rockland County.

23               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

24  Parker.  

25               SENATOR PARKER:   Yes, 

                                                               843

 1  Mr. President.  Will the sponsor continue to 

 2  yield.

 3               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Does the 

 4  sponsor yield?  

 5               SENATOR CARLUCCI:   Yes.

 6               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The 

 7  sponsor continues to yield.

 8               SENATOR PARKER:   Thank you, 

 9  Senator Carlucci, for yielding.  

10               Could you please tell me -- through 

11  you, Mr. President.  Senator Carlucci, can you 

12  tell me when the church was established?  

13               SENATOR CARLUCCI:   When the church 

14  was established?  

15               SENATOR PARKER:   Yes.

16               SENATOR CARLUCCI:   I cannot tell 

17  you that.

18               SENATOR PARKER:   On the bill.

19               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

20  Parker on the bill.

21               SENATOR PARKER:   First, thank you, 

22  Senator Carlucci, for yielding to my questions.  

23  I appreciate it.  

24               And I'm not familiar with the 

25  St. James Mar Thoma Church of Rockland County.  

                                                               844

 1  I'm sure it's a fine institution.  I actually 

 2  expect to be voting aye on this great bill.

 3               And I understand certainly that 

 4  this is a very important thing for the church, 

 5  and the tax-exempt status and those things are 

 6  important not just for the church but also for 

 7  the congregation.  

 8               Churches are really important 

 9  institutions in almost every district -- I'm sure 

10  actually in literally every district in our 

11  state.  The history of the church is critical.  

12  Right?  We actually know that the church actually 

13  begins, from the Christian perspective, from the 

14  disciples.  And with the disciples you had 

15  Peter.  Right?  Peter, whose name literally means 

16  "the rock."  And which Christ established his 

17  church on, right?  And it's Peter who actually 

18  becomes one of the first disciples to go out and 

19  establish churches.  

20               Similarly, although not called the 

21  church, in the Jewish tradition you have 

22  synagogues, which are actually Greek-created, 

23  after schools.  

24               Now, and so there's a -- you know, 

25  in almost every tradition that we find in our 

                                                               845

 1  community, these notions of worship, of 

 2  education, of community and finding a way to 

 3  build community is critical.

 4               I stand with Senator Carlucci in 

 5  trying to help this institution in the way we 

 6  ought to be finding ways to help all of these 

 7  institutions in every single community in our 

 8  districts.  I'd like to find ways in our budget 

 9  that we can help churches, particularly because 

10  they not only have a function that is a spiritual 

11  function, but there's also a social function, 

12  there's an economic development function, right, 

13  many of them involved in health fairs and getting 

14  out information around health fairs.  And so 

15  these institutions are really critical for us to 

16  help.  

17               So let's talk about the social 

18  function of churches.  Churches are places where 

19  people gather in good times and they gather in 

20  bad times.  Sometimes, when they're all alone, 

21  many people have no other place to go but 

22  church.  

23               I remember my grandmother, Fannie 

24  Gallaway Olds, who was gone way before her 

25  time -- and in fact, she died on March 1, 1984.  

                                                               846

 1  And it was actually good -- you know, as I'm 

 2  talking about that, I'm remembering that she 

 3  actually was buried on my birthday.  Which 

 4  typically had made my birthday a sad time for me, 

 5  but that turned around this year when the members 

 6  of this body acknowledged my birthday for the 

 7  first time.  So I wanted to thank everybody for 

 8  acknowledging my birthday yesterday.

 9               But back to my grandmother, that in 

10  her waning years, although she had 10 children 

11  and she was one of 12 children herself, she spent 

12  a great deal of her time at church.  Not just in 

13  the physical building -- she actually belonged to 

14  Cornerstone Baptist Church in Senator Velmanette 

15  Montgomery's district, where Sandy F. Ray was the 

16  pastor.  In fact, Lewis Avenue in Brooklyn, for 

17  those who are familiar with Brooklyn, know that 

18  Lewis Avenue is also Sandy F. Ray Boulevard.

19               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

20  Parker.  Senator Parker.

21               SENATOR PARKER:   Yes.

22               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   I'm 

23  going to ask you, under the authority vested in 

24  me here under Rule III, Section 1, to ensure 

25  germaneness to the subject.  While I appreciate 

                                                               847

 1  the story -- it is a very moving story, and I 

 2  wish you belated birthday greetings -- I would 

 3  ask you to speak to the issue of the exemption on 

 4  real property taxes and its relationship to the 

 5  church, please.

 6               SENATOR PARKER:   Okay.  So I was 

 7  talking about Cornerstone.  Cornerstone has a tax 

 8  exception.  And in fact Cornerstone got its tax 

 9  exemption actually when it moved.  It actually 

10  used to be part of a different church.  Right?  

11  And in fact, Cornerstone is a sister church -- 

12  and people don't know this -- to Concord Baptist 

13  Church in Brooklyn.  

14               Now, people always wonder why 

15  Concord Baptist Church is called Concord Baptist 

16  Church.  It actually used to be on Concord Street 

17  downtown.  But when they moved and they 

18  marched -- you know, some people have done 

19  this -- when the church moved, they marched the 

20  church.  Right?  It moved.  And so it had to 

21  apply for a second exemption.  Right?  

22               As you know, these exemptions are 

23  not easy things to get.  Right?  There's a whole 

24  process in state law for getting an exemption.  

25  So first you have to apply through the state -- 

                                                               848

 1  the Secretary of the Senate -- sorry, not 

 2  Secretary of the Senate.  Sorry, the Secretary of 

 3  State.  You have to apply for an application to 

 4  do business.  Right?  And then so you have to 

 5  apply for a certificate of incorporation through 

 6  the Secretary of the Senate {sic}.  

 7               Once you get the certificate of 

 8  incorporation, sometimes you might need a lawyer 

 9  to get the exemption, because it's not a lot of 

10  paperwork but it frankly is a little bit more 

11  technical than it probably needs to be.  

12  Actually, we should recommend that the SAGE 

13  Commission do a look at the documents and our 

14  paperwork usage in the state in order to deal 

15  with that, particularly as it relates to that, 

16  because we want people who are doing good work, 

17  like churches, to get their exemptions.  

18               And so first you have to apply for 

19  the certificate of incorporation.  Once you get 

20  the certificate of incorporation, you then have 

21  to fill out the certificate of incorporation and 

22  kind of line by line.  It's standard:  Name, 

23  address, you know, the address that -- the 

24  mailing address.  You know, you need to have a 

25  tax ID number.  And kind of go through that whole 

                                                               849

 1  process.  

 2               Once you receive the certificate of 

 3  incorporation back, you then have to apply to the 

 4  federal government to get a 501(c)(3) or 

 5  501(c)(4) or something that is a tax-exempt 

 6  status -- I'm told a 501(c)(6) for churches or 

 7  religious organizations.  Not just churches, but 

 8  religious organizations.  So even if you're doing 

 9  a synagogue, right, which is not a church, it's a 

10  synagogue, you still have to have an exemption.  

11  Right?  

12               If you're Muslim, right -- because 

13  some of you may know I represent the largest 

14  Pakistani community outside of Pakistan in the 

15  world, many of which are Muslims.  And they have 

16  mosques.  Right?  And then the mosques, same 

17  thing, you have to apply for a 501(c)(6).  

18               And so even if you have a mosque or 

19  a synagogue or a church, the first thing you have 

20  to do is go to the Secretary of State, get a 

21  certificate of incorporation.  Then you have to 

22  apply to the federal government to get tax-exempt 

23  status, which is again, typically, for a 

24  religious institution, a 501(c)(6).  You have to 

25  fill that out.  

                                                               850

 1               But it's not just filling out the 

 2  paperwork.  You have to have a listing of your 

 3  board members, you have to have, you know, 

 4  minutes from the board meetings, you have to show 

 5  your budget.  Right?  You have to establish that 

 6  you are actually a real organization.  

 7               And so, again, you know, I'm sure 

 8  the St. James Mar Thoma Church of Rockland, Inc., 

 9  has done all of those things.  Right?  And 

10  apparently haven't done them in a fashion timely 

11  with the county, because the county was billing 

12  their property taxes.  Right?  

13               I mean -- and so, you know, they 

14  have to go through these process after process 

15  after process getting these exemptions so that 

16  they won't be charged taxes so that the money 

17  that they're collecting can actually be used for 

18  the good of the church and thus the good of the 

19  community.  Right?  

20               And so it's important that bills 

21  such as this one have an opportunity to come to 

22  the floor of the Senate and that we vote on them 

23  in order to help these communities.

24               In the particular case of property 

25  taxes, there's an interesting history, 

                                                               851

 1  particularly in how property taxes have been 

 2  created.  There weren't always taxes.  Right?  

 3  Again, as we talk about the church, we begin in 

 4  Genesis and we read the story of Adam and Eve, 

 5  and they lived in the Garden of Eden.  There were 

 6  no tax collectors there.  Right?  So eventually 

 7  there had to be a place where they decided, you 

 8  know, as they got thrown out of there, right -- 

 9  because there's no rent regulation, either, you 

10  know.  So they get thrown out of the Garden of 

11  Eden, right, and now they're out in the world.  

12               As you know, you begin in feudal 

13  times in Europe where essentially all the land 

14  belonged to the king.  So even if you bought 

15  land, technically it was yours, but it really 

16  wasn't yours.  And so the king wanted his piece, 

17  so you had to pay taxes on the land.  Right?  

18               And that has been kind of a way 

19  that government has done this -- its way of 

20  funding itself so it can provide other things for 

21  its citizenry.  Right?  Whether it was a vassal 

22  citizenry in feudal England or feudal France or 

23  Germany, right -- a lot of countries had feudal 

24  systems.  Sweden had a small feudal system.  

25               But if you had a feudal system you 

                                                               852

 1  had to figure out, you know, how do you pay these 

 2  taxes.  Right?  We're all familiar with Robin 

 3  Hood, for instance, who, you know, used to stop 

 4  the tax collectors and give the money back to the 

 5  poor.  So it was important that taxes be 

 6  collected.

 7               And I am all for taxes being 

 8  collected.  Taxes are important for state 

 9  government, for city government.  Right?  Taxes 

10  are important for federal government.  In fact, 

11  I've argued even on this floor that we should in 

12  fact collect taxes as a patriotic act.  It's 

13  patriotic to pay your taxes.  So, you know -- 

14  because, again, what does government do?  It does 

15  the things that the market won't pay for, almost 

16  by definition.  Right?  It does the things that 

17  the market won't pay for.  

18               Yeah, there might be eventually a 

19  market to build a road, and so maybe you would 

20  get a bond issue from Wall Street.  But, you 

21  know, Fulton Street would have never got built 

22  if, you know, the companies had to build it.  

23  Right?  You needed the government to build Fulton 

24  Street.  Or to build Washington Avenue or Central 

25  Avenue here in Albany or Old Loudon Road, you 

                                                               853

 1  know, out in Latham.  Right?  Loudon, that's how 

 2  you pronounce it?  Yeah, Loudon.  

 3               You know, and there's a lot of 

 4  roads here, you know, in the greater Albany area, 

 5  many of which have churches on them.  And it's 

 6  these roads that are paid for by taxes that 

 7  connect these churches to their peoples and their 

 8  homes.  Right?  

 9               And so this notion of paying taxes 

10  is a critical one.  Right?  Because, again, it 

11  provides things like transportation.  You have 

12  roads.  You have a public transportation system.  

13  You have housing, public housing that the 

14  government provides.  Police services, where 

15  would we be without police services.  Right?  

16  Maybe better places, right.  But we need police 

17  services.  We all want to be protected.  Right?  

18               We have lots of police here in the 

19  State of New York.  We have the New York City 

20  Police, the great, you know, force of the 

21  New York City Police.  We have the State Police, 

22  right, who do a fantastic job protecting us on 

23  the roads --

24               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

25  Parker.

                                                               854

 1               SENATOR PARKER:   Yes.

 2               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

 3  Parker, I'm going to remind you again to confine 

 4  your comments specifically to this issue of the 

 5  St. James Mar Thoma Church and real property tax 

 6  exemption request, please.

 7               I gave you an opportunity to have a 

 8  swig of water.

 9               SENATOR PARKER:   Thank you very 

10  much.  I appreciate it.  

11               Yes, I was really trying to connect 

12  this notion of the fact that taxes were 

13  important.  And although we were asking for a tax 

14  exemption for this particular church -- that is 

15  well-deserved, because churches do such great 

16  work in our communities and we certainly want to 

17  support them.  We particularly want to support 

18  the St. James Mar Thoma Church in Rockland 

19  County.  

20               But we also want to make sure that 

21  we pay our taxes.  As we come quickly upon 

22  April 15th, you know, taxes are important.  Tax 

23  exemptions are important, but taxes are important 

24  as well.  Right?  And we want people to, you 

25  know, pay their taxes.  But we don't want this 

                                                               855

 1  church to have to have a burden that takes away 

 2  from serving the community that it serves.  

 3  Right?  

 4               And I'm not, you know, totally 

 5  familiar with that community.  But I'm sure if 

 6  it's very much like the working-class communities 

 7  that we find throughout New York State that those 

 8  folks are dealing with a lot of issues, you know, 

 9  in the middle of this recession.  

10               So finding a tax exemption for 

11  St. James Mar Thoma church of Rockland, Inc., is 

12  critical because that tax exemption frees the 

13  church up to have, you know, food, you know, in 

14  it -- like sometimes many churches have, you 

15  know, food banks.  Right?  And that's critical, 

16  again, when there's a recession.  People don't 

17  have jobs, you know, they're not going to work, 

18  right, they don't have healthcare.  And the 

19  church is filling the gap for each one of those 

20  issues.  Right?  The church is doing the things 

21  that, frankly, government ought to be doing.  

22               So that's why we're giving this tax 

23  exemption to this church today, because it's 

24  critical that these tax exemptions are available 

25  for each one of the churches that need them so 

                                                               856

 1  that they can do all of the things that need to 

 2  be done in our communities.

 3               And I want to really see -- I 

 4  really want to see more of us make sure that our 

 5  churches are being taken care of.  Right?  And 

 6  I'm hoping that by supporting Senator Carlucci's 

 7  bill today that we will find other churches that 

 8  are in need and that we will make the churches 

 9  partners in the kinds of things that we're 

10  doing.  

11               And by helping them with their tax 

12  exemptions, that's a way that we can make sure 

13  that resources in that community are being used, 

14  you know, for that community, that we make sure 

15  that, you know, the tax exemptions are going 

16  towards, you know, doing some of the really 

17  marvelous work that I see churches doing.  

18               You know, for instance, the money 

19  from a tax exemption can go towards the health 

20  ministry.  The health ministry may use the 

21  tax-exemption money to do HIV and AIDS ministry 

22  in which they're reaching out to people in the 

23  community with that tax-exemption money, right, 

24  using that, right, to, you know, do needle 

25  exchanges, maybe hand out condoms, maybe talk 

                                                               857

 1  about abstinence, maybe counsel people who have 

 2  HIV or AIDS.  Right?  A really serious pandemic 

 3  that we have really stopped talking about to a 

 4  large degree in this community.  

 5               And although I can't talk about it 

 6  now because it's not germane to the tax exemption 

 7  for the St. James Mar Thoma Church of Rockland, 

 8  Inc., but this application for a tax exemption is 

 9  going to be important, again, to do that kind of 

10  work.  

11               But then also this same, you know, 

12  St. James Mar Thoma Church of Rockland County may 

13  also have a housing program, right, where they 

14  are trying to help people either stay in their 

15  houses, right, dealing with foreclosure -- we 

16  have a large foreclosure problem in this state.  

17  And although we're asking for a tax exemption 

18  here, we really also ought to be in this body 

19  talking about making sure that there's somewhere, 

20  you know, upwards of $25 million in this year's 

21  budget to make sure that we have foreclosure 

22  prevention.

23               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:  Senator 

24  Parker.  Senator Parker.

25               SENATOR PARKER:   Yes.

                                                               858

 1               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   I've 

 2  given you great leniency.

 3               SENATOR PARKER:   And I appreciate 

 4  it, Mr. President.

 5               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   And I've 

 6  even allowed you the opportunity to drink as I've 

 7  been talking to you.

 8               SENATOR PARKER:   Yes, I appreciate 

 9  that.

10               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   I would 

11  ask you please to now, in accordance with 

12  Rule III, Section 1, which gives me the authority 

13  and responsibility to ensure germaneness to the 

14  subject, to please specifically address the 

15  exemption and the church specific.

16               SENATOR PARKER:   Right.  I thought 

17  specifically I talked about this church and the 

18  fact that this exemption freed up money for the 

19  church to do other things like housing.  Right?  

20               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   But this 

21  legislation is dealing specifically with the 

22  exemption, so I would ask you again --

23               SENATOR PARKER:  Right.  Right.  I 

24  was speaking about --

25               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Out of 

                                                               859

 1  respect, I would ask you to please confine it.  

 2  If not, please relinquish the floor to another 

 3  speaker.  

 4               SENATOR PARKER:   Right.  But I'm 

 5  also trying to talk, Mr. President, about how the 

 6  exemption is used.  Right?  Which is the impact.  

 7  Right?  I mean, it's directly like -- the 

 8  question is, why give a church a tax exemption?  

 9  Right?  That's the real question here.  

10               Why are we voting yes on Senator 

11  Carlucci's bill to give it to St. James Mar Thoma 

12  Church of Rockland?  Because churches do good 

13  work.  And what happens with that exemption 

14  money?  That's the real question.  I mean, we do 

15  anything, we talk about the budget and we say 

16  we're going to give money to transportation, the 

17  question is not whether we put money in 

18  transportation but what does money in 

19  transportation mean.  

20               Here, what does extra money in the 

21  coffers of the St. James Mar Thoma Church of 

22  Rockland, Inc., what does that mean for that 

23  congregation, what does that mean for the 

24  community of Rockland County, what does that mean 

25  for needy people who are served by the St. James 

                                                               860

 1  Mar Thoma Church of Rockland who we're giving 

 2  this exemption for?  

 3               And the notion of exemptions is 

 4  important because there weren't always 

 5  exemptions.  You know, as I mentioned, in the 

 6  feudal period there were no exemptions from the 

 7  king's taxes.  When the king wanted his taxes, he 

 8  got his taxes.  Right?  Senator Bloomberg {sic}, 

 9  when he got first got into office, he raised 

10  everybody's taxes 25 percent because the king has 

11  to get his taxes.  Right?  

12               And so, you know, here we're 

13  exempting property taxes from the St. James Mar 

14  Thoma Church of Rockland, Inc.  And the question, 

15  Mr. President, is what happens with all of those 

16  taxes and what do we do with them.  And I'm 

17  saying that I am clear, having worked with 

18  several churches -- in fact, I was very happy 

19  today that you had Reverend Judith Rapley 

20  Waterman from my district come up and give the 

21  invocation today, because she's from a great 

22  church.  

23               And hopefully they have a tax 

24  exemption.  If they don't, we'll be working on 

25  one.  And hopefully Senator Carlucci will 

                                                               861

 1  cosponsor my legislation that asks for an 

 2  exemption for the New Hope Christian Fellowship 

 3  Church so that they can have a tax exemption to 

 4  do the same kind of great work in Brooklyn that 

 5  they're doing in Rockland at the St. James Mar 

 6  Thoma Church of Rockland, Inc., with their 

 7  exemption.  

 8               And they're taking that exemption 

 9  and I know that they're using that exemption in 

10  great ways.  And the question is how are they 

11  using that great work.  Because I've had 

12  opportunities to work with New Hope Christian 

13  Fellowship in Brooklyn, and I have not 

14  unfortunately had a chance yet to work with the 

15  St. James Mar Thoma Church of Rockland County.  

16  But the day is early, and hopefully I will get 

17  that opportunity.  

18               But I'm sure that, like the 

19  churches in Brooklyn, the churches in Rockland 

20  are doing great work not just in the pulpit but 

21  doing things around housing and health.  Right?  

22  I'm sure many have a credit union.  Right?  You 

23  know, I know many of the churches in Brooklyn, we 

24  have credit unions in them.  Right?  Because 

25  banking is hard to get sometimes in our 

                                                               862

 1  communities.  

 2               And so this exemption that we're 

 3  giving today by voting on this bill, this 

 4  exemption frees up money in the coffers of the 

 5  St. James Mar Thoma Church of Rockland in order 

 6  to have enough resources to do the great things 

 7  that need to be done in our communities.  Right?  

 8               And some of these great things, you 

 9  know -- Senator Carlucci, you know, I didn't ask 

10  when I had him on the witness stand, I didn't ask 

11  him questions about this.  But I'm sure that they 

12  do a number of great things with their tax 

13  exemption specifically.  Right?  And I know a 

14  church like this, you know, probably works in a 

15  lot of areas.  And the use of their tax exemption 

16  is one of the things that we ought to be talking 

17  about.  

18               In fact, I want to suggest to 

19  Senator Skelos and Senator Libous that we do a 

20  public hearing on tax exemptions for churches so 

21  that we can hear all of the great work and get on 

22  the Senate public record the issue of tax 

23  exemptions and what we're using those tax 

24  exemptions for.  

25               Because we're giving out literally 

                                                               863

 1  hundreds of millions of dollars in tax exemptions 

 2  each year in this state to churches and mosques 

 3  and synagogues and temples; we ought to know what 

 4  that work is being done for.  It may also help us 

 5  build a relationship with our churches so that 

 6  when, in fact, an exemption does come up, we 

 7  understand why we are voting for that exemption.  

 8               Because the exemption for the 

 9  St. James Mar Thoma Church of Rockland, Inc., 

10  right, is going to be an exemption that is used, 

11  you know, in great ways, I'm sure, for that 

12  constituency, right, and for that congregation.  

13  Right?  

14               I was hoping to be able to get a 

15  number of the congregation, know, you know, when 

16  the church was established, know a little bit 

17  about the church.  But hopefully when we have the 

18  public hearing that I'm calling for, that the 

19  head pastor or the priest at the St. James Mar 

20  Thoma Church of Rockland, Inc., will be present, 

21  will talk about the church, will give us more 

22  information on this great thing that we voted on 

23  today so that we have a more informed dialogue as 

24  it relates to the issues of, you know, tax 

25  exemptions for churches.  

                                                               864

 1               And there's a number of churches 

 2  that are asking for tax exemptions.  You know, 

 3  when you look at today's active list, right, you 

 4  have townships asking for them, you have churches 

 5  asking.  Right?  There's a number of bills in 

 6  which we're asking for tax exemptions for 

 7  institutions.  And I think it's going to be 

 8  really important for us to make sure that we are 

 9  finding the right information so that we can vote 

10  on these bills in an informed way, you know, on 

11  these issues.  

12               The St. James Mar Thoma Church of 

13  Rockland County, Inc., has filed its application 

14  through Senator Carlucci's office.  I was hoping 

15  to see a bill analysis on this.  Mr. President, I 

16  don't know, is there a bill analysis or a fiscal 

17  impact statement available by the sponsor?

18               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Are you 

19  asking the sponsor to yield, Senator Parker?  

20               SENATOR PARKER:   Yes, could I ask 

21  the sponsor to yield for a question.

22               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Does the 

23  sponsor yield for an additional question?  

24               SENATOR CARLUCCI:   Yes.

25               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The 

                                                               865

 1  sponsor yields.

 2               SENATOR PARKER:   Senator Carlucci, 

 3  was there a fiscal note for this bill?

 4               SENATOR CARLUCCI:   This bill, what 

 5  it does is it allows for the town, the 

 6  municipality, to actually accept this 

 7  application.

 8               SENATOR PARKER:   So there's no -- 

 9  I'm sorry, will the sponsor continue to yield.

10               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Does the 

11  sponsor continue to yield?

12               SENATOR CARLUCCI:   Yes.

13               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

14  Parker.

15               SENATOR PARKER:   Through you, 

16  Mr. President.  Senator Carlucci, so do we know 

17  how much this particular exemption is going to 

18  cost the State of New York by granting an 

19  exemption to the St. James Mar Thoma Church of 

20  Rockland, Inc.?  

21               SENATOR CARLUCCI:   This is a 

22  standard practice where we're allowing this 

23  organization to file a tax exemption.  And they 

24  missed the deadline, so we're allowing them that 

25  opportunity so they can do the good work in the 

                                                               866

 1  community and continue to serve the many families 

 2  that they have throughout the years and continue 

 3  to live in that tradition, and try to make sure 

 4  that they have more money in the bank so they can 

 5  take care of their members.

 6               SENATOR PARKER:   Thank you, 

 7  Senator Carlucci.

 8               Mr. President, on the bill.

 9               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

10  Parker will continue on the bill.

11               SENATOR PARKER:   Thank you again, 

12  Senator Carlucci, for your patience with my 

13  questions.  

14               And this actually is Calendar 

15  Number 213, Senate Bill 4326A.  And it's actually 

16  cosponsored in the Assembly, so this is a 

17  two-house bill.  So this bill is eligible to be 

18  law.  And it's A08590, and it's sponsored by 

19  Assemblymember -- is that Rabbitt?  Annie 

20  Rabbitt.  

21               And this authorizes the St. James 

22  Mar Thoma Church of Rockland, Inc., to file an 

23  application for exemption from real property 

24  taxes for a certain parcel of land located in the 

25  Town of Ramapo.  

                                                               867

 1               The title of this bill is "an act 

 2  to authorize the St. James Mar Thoma church of 

 3  Rockland, Inc., to file an application for 

 4  exemption from real property taxes for a certain 

 5  parcel of land located in the Town of Ramapo."  

 6               The blurb -- now, the blurb 

 7  typically is like the title, but shorter.  And 

 8  this allows the St. James Mar Thoma Church to 

 9  file an application for exemption from real 

10  property taxes in connection with the 2009 

11  assessment rolls.

12               The analysis of this bill is that 

13  it authorizes the St. James Mar Thoma Church of 

14  Rockland, Inc., to file an application for 

15  exemption from real property taxes for certain 

16  parcels of land located in the Town of Ramapo.  

17               St. James Mar Thoma Church is a 

18  non-for-profit organization that would be 

19  entitled such an exemption had the organization 

20  filed an application for exemption by the 

21  appropriate taxable status date, according to the 

22  bill sponsor.  No significant change in A print.

23               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Mr. President.

24               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

25  Libous.

                                                               868

 1               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Senator Parker 

 2  has been sharing with us information that 

 3  obviously is very important to him, and we 

 4  appreciate it.  But I know that we have some 

 5  rules on time.  Could you share with the body how 

 6  much time Senator Parker has left?  

 7               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Under 

 8  Rule IX, under rules of debate, Senator Libous, 

 9  we have been monitoring the debate, and I believe 

10  we have approximately 10 seconds left.

11               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Thank you, 

12  Mr. President.

13               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   So, 

14  Senator Parker, if you would conclude, I would 

15  appreciate that.

16               SENATOR PARKER:   So thank you, 

17  Senator Libous, for giving me the heads up.  

18               And thank you, Mr. President, for 

19  your leniency and listening.

20               This is a bill that I'm going to be 

21  supporting.  I want to thank Senator Carlucci for 

22  bringing up this bill that authorizes the 

23  St. James Mar Thoma Church of Rockland, Inc., for 

24  a tax exemption.  And I will be voting aye.

25               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Thank 

                                                               869

 1  you, Senator Parker.

 2               Any other further discussion?  

 3               Debate is closed.  The Secretary 

 4  will ring the bell.  

 5               Read the last section.

 6               THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 7  act shall take effect immediately.

 8               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Call the 

 9  roll.

10               (The Secretary called the roll.)

11               THE SECRETARY:   Those recorded in 

12  the negative are Senators Bonacic, Dilan, 

13  Krueger, Larkin, and O'Mara.

14               Absent from voting:  Senators Diaz, 

15  Hannon, and Squadron.

16               Ayes, 51.  Nays, 5.

17               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The bill 

18  is passed.

19               Senator Libous.

20               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Mr. President, 

21  before we continue, we're going to stand at ease 

22  for a few moments.  But before we stand at ease, 

23  would you call on Senator Hassell-Thompson for an 

24  announcement, please.

25               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

                                                               870

 1  Hassell-Thompson.

 2               SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON:   Thank 

 3  you, Mr. President.

 4               There will be an immediate meeting 

 5  of the Democratic Conference in the Democratic 

 6  Conference Room.

 7               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

 8  Libous.  

 9               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Thank you, 

10  Mr. President.  

11               I would ask members to stay close 

12  to the chamber.  I'm told by Senator Sampson that 

13  the meeting will be a brief meeting, and we'll be 

14  reconvening shortly.

15               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   There 

16  will be an immediate meeting of the Democrat 

17  Conference in the Democrat Conference Room.  

18               The Senate stands at ease.

19               (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease 

20  at 1:15 p.m.)

21               (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at 

22  1:54 p.m.)

23               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The 

24  Senate will come to order.

25               Senator Libous.

                                                               871

 1               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Mr. President, at 

 2  this time could I have unanimous consent to 

 3  restore the calendar back to the noncontroversial 

 4  reading.

 5               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Without 

 6  objection, the calendar will be restored to 

 7  noncontroversial reading and the lay-asides will 

 8  be restored to the active list.

 9               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Could we have the 

10  reading of the noncontroversial calendar at this 

11  time.

12               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   There 

13  being no objection, we will now go on with the 

14  reading of the noncontroversial calendar.  

15               The Secretary will read.

16               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

17  214, by Senator Carlucci, Senate Print 4328, an 

18  act to authorize Iglesia Segunda Nueva.

19               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Read the 

20  last section.

21               THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

22  act shall take effect immediately.

23               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Call the 

24  roll.

25               (The Secretary called the roll.)

                                                               872

 1               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Announce 

 2  the results.

 3               THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 54.  Nays, 

 4  4.  Senators Bonacic, Dilan, Larkin and O'Mara 

 5  recorded in the negative.

 6               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The bill 

 7  is passed.

 8               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 9  215, by Senator Zeldin, Senate Print 4442A, an 

10  act to authorize Victims Information Bureau.

11               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Read the 

12  last section.

13               THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

14  act shall take effect immediately.

15               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Call the 

16  roll.

17               (The Secretary called the roll.)

18               THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 56.  Nays, 

19  3.  Senators Bonacic, Larkin and O'Mara recorded 

20  in the negative.

21               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The bill 

22  is passed.

23               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

24  217, by Senator Zeldin, Senate Print 4722A, an 

25  act authorizing the assessor of the Town of 

                                                               873

 1  Islip.

 2               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Read the 

 3  last section.

 4               THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 5  act shall take effect immediately.

 6               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Call the 

 7  roll.

 8               (The Secretary called the roll.)

 9               THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 54.  Nays, 

10  5.  Those recorded in the negative are 

11  Senators Bonacic, Dilan, Krueger, Larkin and 

12  O'Mara.

13               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The bill 

14  is passed.

15               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

16  219, by Senator Breslin, Senate Print 6162, an 

17  act authorizing Holding Our Own, Inc. 

18               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Read the 

19  last section.

20               THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

21  act shall take effect immediately.

22               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Call the 

23  roll.

24               (The Secretary called the roll.)

25               THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 53.  Nays, 

                                                               874

 1  6.  Those recorded in the negative are Senators 

 2  Bonacic, Dilan, Krueger, Larkin, O'Mara and 

 3  Robach.

 4               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The bill 

 5  is passed.

 6               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 7  221, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6162, an act 

 8  to authorize the assessor of the County of 

 9  Nassau.

10               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Read the 

11  last section.

12               THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

13  act shall take effect immediately.

14               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Call the 

15  roll.

16               (The Secretary called the roll.)

17               THE SECRETARY:   Those recorded in 

18  the negative are Senators Bonacic, Dilan, 

19  Krueger, Larkin and O'Mara.

20               Ayes, 54.  Nays 5.

21               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The bill 

22  is passed.

23               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

24  222, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6185, an act 

25  to authorize the assessor of the County of 

                                                               875

 1  Nassau.

 2               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Read the 

 3  last section.

 4               THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 5  act shall take effect immediately.

 6               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Call the 

 7  roll.

 8               (The Secretary called the roll.)

 9               THE SECRETARY:   Those recorded in 

10  the negative on Senate 6185 are Senators Bonacic, 

11  Dilan, Krueger, Larkin, and O'Mara.

12               Ayes, 54.  Nays, 5.

13               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The bill 

14  is passed.

15               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

16  223, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6186, an act 

17  to authorize the assessor of the County of 

18  Nassau.

19               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Read the 

20  last section.

21               THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

22  act shall take effect immediately.

23               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Call the 

24  roll.

25               (The Secretary called the roll.)

                                                               876

 1               THE SECRETARY:   Those recorded in 

 2  the negative are Senators Bonacic, Dilan, 

 3  Krueger, Larkin and O'Mara.  Also Senator 

 4  Hassell-Thompson.  

 5               Ayes, 53.  Nays, 6.

 6               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The bill 

 7  is passed.

 8               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 9  225, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6297, an act 

10  to authorize the assessor of the County of 

11  Nassau.

12               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Read the 

13  last section.

14               THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

15  act shall take effect immediately.

16               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Call the 

17  roll.

18               (The Secretary called the roll.)

19               THE SECRETARY:   Those recorded in 

20  the negative are Senators Bonacic, Dilan, 

21  Krueger, Larkin and O'Mara.

22               Ayes, 54.  Nays, 5.

23               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The bill 

24  is passed.

25               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

                                                               877

 1  226, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6298A, an 

 2  act to authorize the Barry and Florence Friedberg 

 3  Jewish Community Center.

 4               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Read the 

 5  last section.

 6               THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 7  act shall take effect immediately.

 8               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Call the 

 9  roll.

10               (The Secretary called the roll.)

11               THE SECRETARY:   Those recorded in 

12  the negative are Senators Bonacic, Dilan, 

13  Krueger, Larkin and O'Mara.

14               Ayes, 54.  Nays, 5.

15               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The bill 

16  is passed.

17               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

18  227, by Senator Oppenheimer, Senate Print 6301, 

19  an act to authorize the Beth El Synagogue.

20               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Read the 

21  last section.

22               THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

23  act shall take effect immediately.

24               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Call the 

25  roll.

                                                               878

 1               (The Secretary called the roll.)

 2               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

 3  Bonacic to explain his vote.

 4               SENATOR BONACIC:   Real briefly, we 

 5  will be voting on 17 bills today for 

 6  tax-exempts.  In those areas where those 

 7  facilities are located, real property taxes will 

 8  go up on your residential homeowners and your 

 9  small businesses.

10               Just now, we have the Department of 

11  Taxation and Finance has given us the assessment 

12  roll for 2010.  For religious exemptions we are 

13  now up to almost $25 billion.  

14               Back in 2003, Senator Little and I 

15  wanted to attack this problem and we went across 

16  the state, Senator Parker, when you were talking, 

17  and we had hearings throughout the state.  And at 

18  that time the amount of tax exemptions were 

19  $441 billion on all lands in the State of 

20  New York.  Roughly one out of three parcels were 

21  tax-exempt back in 2003.  

22               This report now, based on the 2010 

23  assessment, slightly under $800 billion of 

24  tax-exempt land.  

25               So when we want to do favors for a 

                                                               879

 1  constituent to please them and we keep taking 

 2  these tax-exempt parcels and we make them exempt, 

 3  keep in mind the taxes don't go away, it's a 

 4  shifting.  

 5               This is unsustainable.  It's one of 

 6  the reasons property taxes in this state are 

 7  going through the roof and why many people are 

 8  looking to move outside the State of New York 

 9  because of these unsustainable property taxes and 

10  tax exemptions.  I vote no.  

11               Thank you, Mr. President.

12               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Senator 

13  Bonacic to be recorded in the negative.

14               Announce the results.

15               THE SECRETARY:   Those recorded in 

16  the negative on Calendar Number 227 are Senators 

17  Bonacic, Dilan, Krueger, Larkin and O'Mara.

18               Ayes, 54.  Nays, 5.

19               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The bill 

20  is passed.

21               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

22  228, by Senator Carlucci, Senate Print Number 

23  6376, an act to authorize.

24               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Read the 

25  last section.

                                                               880

 1               THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 2  act shall take effect immediately.

 3               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Call the 

 4  roll.

 5               (The Secretary called the roll.)

 6               THE SECRETARY:   Those recorded in 

 7  the negative on Calendar Number 228 are 

 8  Senators Bonacic, Dilan, Krueger, Larkin and 

 9  O'Mara.

10               Ayes, 54.  Nays, 5.

11               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The bill 

12  is passed.

13               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

14  229, by Senator Carlucci, Senate Print 6377, an 

15  act to authorize the Village of Airmont.

16               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Read the 

17  last section.

18               THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

19  act shall take effect immediately.

20               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Call the 

21  roll.

22               (The Secretary called the roll.)

23               THE SECRETARY:   Those recorded in 

24  the negative on Calendar Number 229 are 

25  Senators Bonacic, Dilan, Krueger, Larkin and 

                                                               881

 1  O'Mara.

 2               Ayes, 54.  Nays, 5.

 3               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The bill 

 4  is passed.

 5               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 6  230, by Senator Carlucci, Senate Print 6378, an 

 7  act to authorize the assessor.

 8               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Read the 

 9  last section.

10               THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

11  act shall take effect immediately.

12               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Call the 

13  roll.

14               (The Secretary called the roll.)

15               THE SECRETARY:   Those recorded in 

16  the negative on Calendar Number 230 are 

17  Senators Bonacic, Dilan, Krueger, Larkin and 

18  O'Mara.

19               Ayes, 54.  Nays, 5.

20               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The bill 

21  is passed.

22               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

23  231, by Senator Carlucci, Senate Print 6379, an 

24  act to authorize.

25               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Read the 

                                                               882

 1  last section.

 2               THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 3  act shall take effect immediately.

 4               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Call the 

 5  roll.

 6               (The Secretary called the roll.)

 7               THE SECRETARY:   Those recorded in 

 8  the negative on Calendar Number 231 are 

 9  Senators Bonacic, Dilan, Krueger, Larkin and 

10  O'Mara.

11               Ayes, 54.  Nays, 5.

12               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The bill 

13  is passed.

14               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

15  232, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 6422, an 

16  act to authorize.

17               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Read the 

18  last section.

19               THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

20  act shall take effect immediately.

21               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Call the 

22  roll.

23               (The Secretary called the roll.)

24               THE SECRETARY:   Those recorded in 

25  the negative on Calendar Number 232 are 

                                                               883

 1  Senators Bonacic, Dilan, Krueger, Larkin and 

 2  O'Mara.

 3               Ayes, 54.  Nays, 5.

 4               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The bill 

 5  is passed.

 6               THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 7  233, substitued earlier today by Member of the 

 8  Assembly Rabbitt, Assembly Print Number 2603B, an 

 9  act to authorize Occupations, Inc. 

10               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Read the 

11  last section.

12               THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

13  act shall take effect immediately.

14               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   Call the 

15  roll.

16               (The Secretary called the roll.)

17               THE SECRETARY:   Those recorded in 

18  the negative on Calendar Number 233 are 

19  Senators Bonacic, Dilan, Krueger and O'Mara.

20               Ayes, 55.  Nays, 4.

21               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   The bill 

22  is passed.

23               Senator Libous.

24               SENATOR LIBOUS:   Mr. President, is 

25  there any further business at the desk?  

                                                               884

 1               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   There is 

 2  no further business.  

 3               SENATOR LIBOUS:   There will be an 

 4  immediate meeting of the Crime and Corrections 

 5  Committee in Room 332, an immediate meeting of 

 6  Crime and Corrections in Room 332.  

 7               And there being no further business 

 8  before the Senate, I move that we adjourn until 

 9  Monday, March 12th, at 3:00 p.m., intervening 

10  days being legislative days.

11               ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO:   There 

12  will be an immediate meeting of the Senate Crime 

13  and Corrections Committee in Room 332.

14               On motion, the Senate stands 

15  adjourned until Monday, March 12th, at 3:00 p.m., 

16  intervening days being legislative days.

17               Senate adjourned.

18               (Whereupon, at 2:09 p.m., the Senate 

19  adjourned.)

20

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22

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24

25