Regular Session - February 27, 2014

                                                                   404

 1               NEW YORK STATE SENATE

 2                          

 3                          

 4              THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

 5                          

 6                          

 7                          

 8                          

 9                  ALBANY, NEW YORK

10                 February 27, 2014

11                     11:27 a.m.

12                          

13                          

14                  REGULAR SESSION

15  

16  

17  

18  SENATOR DAVID CARLUCCI, Acting President

19  FRANCIS W. PATIENCE, Secretary

20  

21  

22  

23  

24  

25  


                                                               405

 1                P R O C E E D I N G S

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

 3   Senate will come to order.  

 4                I ask everyone present to please 

 5   rise and repeat with me the Pledge of Allegiance.

 6                (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 

 7   the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   In the 

 9   absence of clergy, may we please bow our heads in 

10   a moment of silence.

11                (Whereupon, the assemblage respected 

12   a moment of silence.)

13                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

14   reading of the Journal.  

15                The Secretary will read.

16                THE SECRETARY:   In Senate, 

17   Wednesday, February 26, the Senate met pursuant 

18   to adjournment.  The Journal of Tuesday, 

19   February 25, was read and approved.  On motion, 

20   Senate adjourned.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Without 

22   objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

23                Presentation of petitions.

24                Messages from the Assembly.

25                The Secretary will read.


                                                               406

 1                THE SECRETARY:   On page 13, Senator 

 2   Perkins moves to discharge, from the Committee on 

 3   Health, Assembly Bill Number 8611 and substitute 

 4   it for the identical Senate Bill Number 6470, 

 5   Third Reading Calendar 103.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:    

 7   Substitution ordered.

 8                Messages from the Governor.

 9                Reports of standing committees.

10                Reports of select committees.

11                Communications and reports from 

12   state officers.

13                Motions and resolutions.

14                Senator Libous.

15                SENATOR LIBOUS:   Thank you, 

16   Mr. President.  

17                At this time could we please adopt 

18   the Resolution Calendar, with the exception of 

19   Resolution Numbers 3514, 3608, 3615 and 3658.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   All in 

21   favor of adopting the Resolution Calendar, with 

22   the exception of Resolutions 3514, 3608, 3615, 

23   and 3658, signify by saying aye.

24                (Response of "Aye.")

25                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:  Opposed, 


                                                               407

 1   nay.

 2                (No response.)

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

 4   Resolution Calendar is adopted.

 5                Senator Libous.

 6                SENATOR LIBOUS:   Thank you, 

 7   Mr. President.  

 8                Would you call on Senator Gianaris, 

 9   please, for a motion.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

11   Gianaris.

12                SENATOR GIANARIS:   On behalf of 

13   Senator Squadron, I move that the following bill 

14   be discharged from its respective committee and 

15   be recommitted with instructions to strike the 

16   enacting clause:  Senate Bill 5862.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   So 

18   ordered.

19                Senator Libous.

20                SENATOR LIBOUS:   Thank you, 

21   Mr. President.

22                I believe there's a resolution at 

23   the desk by Senator Klein, Number 3658.  I ask 

24   that it be read in its entirety, and could you 

25   please call on Senator Klein before its adoption.


                                                               408

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

 2   Secretary will read.

 3                THE SECRETARY:   Legislative 

 4   Resolution Number 3658, by Senator Klein, 

 5   commemorating the 100th Anniversary of The Manor 

 6   Club in Pelham, New York.

 7                "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this 

 8   Legislative Body to recognize that the quality 

 9   and character of life in the communities across 

10   New York State are reflective of the concerned 

11   and dedicated efforts of those organizations and 

12   individuals who would devote themselves to the 

13   welfare of the community and its citizenry; and 

14                "WHEREAS, Attendant to such concern,  

15   and in full accord with its long-standing 

16   traditions, this Legislative Body is justly proud  

17   to commemorate the 100th Anniversary of The Manor 

18   Club, to be celebrated at a Centennial Gala on 

19   March 1, 2014, in Pelham, New York; and 

20                "WHEREAS, The Manor Club is a 

21   nonprofit center for cultural, educational and 

22   philanthropic events with a proud history of 

23   community service to Pelham, New York, and the 

24   surrounding areas; and 

25                "WHEREAS, The Manor Club was  


                                                               409

 1   originally an all-male group incorporated in  

 2   1883; after facing declining membership and 

 3   financial troubles, the all-female members of the 

 4   Tuesday Afternoon Club were asked if they would 

 5   be interested in taking over the club; an 

 6   agreement was made in 1914, and these very 

 7   capable women set the cornerstone for the 

 8   ever-growing 300-member cultural venue it is 

 9   today; and 

10                "WHEREAS, Over the years, The Manor 

11   Club has raised funds for community outreach 

12   through holding fashion shows, bridge parties, 

13   dances, concerts, and white elephant sales; and 

14                "WHEREAS, The Manor Club Scholarship 

15   Awards were established in 1944, helping  

16   numerous Pelham Memorial High School students to 

17   further their education; and 

18                "WHEREAS, The Manor Club is actively 

19   involved in a number of charitable programs 

20   including a fall coat drive, fundraisers, and the 

21   Manor Club Shares, a program allowing other 

22   philanthropic organizations use of its clubhouse 

23   as a venue for meetings; and 

24                "WHEREAS, The club's youth group, 

25   the Do-Its, enlists the services of members'  


                                                               410

 1   daughters in 5th to 10th grade to assist with 

 2   projects such as the Children's Center Benefit, 

 3   the Victorian Christmas Party for children, and 

 4   the Mary and The Boys Concert, as well as a 

 5   planned fundraiser for the New Rochelle Humane 

 6   Society; and 

 7                "WHEREAS, One of the greatest assets 

 8   of The Manor Club is its professional-level 

 9   theater productions and concerts, which are open 

10   to the public; these productions have played a 

11   key role in enriching the life and culture of the 

12   overall community; and 

13                "WHEREAS, To celebrate The Manor 

14   Club's centennial anniversary, playwright and 

15   club member Rosemary Foley is writing a skit 

16   about the club's early history, and director and 

17   actor Paul Romanello will present a musical 

18   production of the story of the club's 100-year 

19   journey from the Silver Age of the Flapper to the 

20   sophistication of the 21st century; and 

21                "WHEREAS, It is the custom of this 

22   Legislative Body that when organizations of such 

23   noble aims and accomplishments are brought to  

24   our attention, they should be celebrated and 

25   recognized by all the citizens of this great 


                                                               411

 1   Empire State; now, therefore, be it 

 2                "RESOLVED, That this Legislative 

 3   Body pause in its deliberations to commemorate 

 4   the 100th Anniversary of The Manor Club, to be 

 5   celebrated at a Centennial Gala on March 1,  

 6   2014, in Pelham, New York; and be it further 

 7                "RESOLVED, That a copy of this  

 8   resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted to 

 9   The Manor Club, Pelham, New York."

10                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

11   Klein.

12                SENATOR KLEIN:   Thank you, 

13   Mr. President.  

14                It's certainly my pleasure to 

15   present this resolution honoring the 

16   100th anniversary of the Pelham Manor Club.  

17                I want to acknowledge that we have 

18   with us today in our chamber the club president, 

19   Joan Cornell, as well as distinguished members of 

20   the club with us today.  I thank you for joining 

21   us today here in our State Capitol.  

22                This is something that's very 

23   important in the Pelham community because this is 

24   certainly a milestone.  This Saturday the Pelham 

25   Manor Club will celebrate their Centennial Gala 


                                                               412

 1   and honor the cultural philosophic and 

 2   educational contributions that the club has made 

 3   through generations.

 4                The Pelham Manor Club has a rich and 

 5   notable history, as was outlined previously, 

 6   dating back to the early 1870s.  Its earliest 

 7   members included Tom DeWitt and Henry Taft, the 

 8   brother of President Taft.  

 9                But I think what really sets this 

10   club apart is that back in the 1870s it was 

11   founded by men.  And when it went into financial 

12   hardship and potential bankruptcy, the men of 

13   Pelham turned to the women to take over the club 

14   back in 1914, and it prospered.  And I think it 

15   proves the old adage that our former First Lady 

16   Eleanor Roosevelt once said, that "If you want 

17   something said, get a man.  But if you want 

18   something done, get a woman to do it."  So 

19   clearly that's what was accomplished.  And this 

20   long history of the Pelham Manor Club is because 

21   of the great work of the great ladies of Pelham.

22                So I thank you.  This is a very 

23   important day in our community of Pelham.  And I 

24   look forward to seeing everyone this Saturday 

25   night at the gala.  


                                                               413

 1                Thank you all.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

 3   question is on the resolution.  All in favor 

 4   signify by saying aye.

 5                (Response of "Aye.")

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:    

 7   Opposed, nay.

 8                (No response.)

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

10   resolution is adopted.

11                Senator Libous.

12                SENATOR LIBOUS:   Thank you, 

13   Mr. President.

14                I believe there's a resolution by 

15   Senator Peralta, Number 3608, at the desk.  I ask 

16   that the title be read and then we will open it 

17   up for cosponsorship.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

19   Secretary will read.

20                THE SECRETARY:   Legislative 

21   Resolution Number 3608, by Senator Peralta, 

22   commemorating the 170th Anniversary of the 

23   Dominican Republic Independence, to be celebrated 

24   on February 27, 2014.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   All in 


                                                               414

 1   favor of adopting the resolution signify by 

 2   saying aye.

 3                (Response of "Aye.")

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:    

 5   Opposed, nay.

 6                (No response.)

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

 8   resolution is adopted.

 9                Senator Libous.

10                SENATOR LIBOUS:   We opened that up, 

11   right, to the membership?  And as the policy 

12   goes, Mr. President -- I always like to repeat it 

13   just so the members are clear -- all members will 

14   be put on the resolution.  If for some reason you 

15   choose not to be put on the resolution, let the 

16   desk know.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

18   resolution is open for cosponsorship.  If you do 

19   not wish to be a cosponsor, please notify the 

20   desk.

21                Senator Libous.

22                SENATOR LIBOUS:   I believe Senator 

23   Kennedy has a resolution, Number 3615, at the 

24   desk.  I ask that the title be read and I believe 

25   that Senator Kennedy would then like to speak on 


                                                               415

 1   the resolution before its adoption.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

 3   Secretary will read.

 4                THE SECRETARY:   Legislative 

 5   Resolution Number 3615, by Senator Kennedy, 

 6   mourning the death of business leader Lumon Ross, 

 7   distinguished citizen and devoted member of his 

 8   community.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

10   Kennedy.

11                SENATOR KENNEDY:   Thank you, 

12   Mr. President.

13                I rise today to pay tribute to the 

14   life of Lumon Ross, who passed away on January 7, 

15   2014, at the age of 75.  

16                Lumon dedicated his life to 

17   enhancing the quality of life in his beloved 

18   hometown of Buffalo, New York.  A native of 

19   Buffalo, Lumon Ross earned a bachelor's degree 

20   from Buff State College.  He went to work as a 

21   social worker and later served as a supervisor 

22   with the New York State Division of Youth before 

23   opening the Kensington Experience restaurant on 

24   Kensington Avenue in the early 1990s.  

25                A long-time champion of black-owned 


                                                               416

 1   businesses, Lumon understood firsthand the value 

 2   of small businesses in rebuilding Buffalo's East 

 3   Side community and creating job opportunities for 

 4   the neighborhood.  

 5                In the 1990s, Lumon Ross cofounded 

 6   the Black Chamber of Commerce, serving as its 

 7   president and proudly representing the 

 8   organization throughout the business community.  

 9   He made sure the Black Chamber of Commerce was 

10   accessible to all and was at the forefront of 

11   teaching the principles of business to members of 

12   the community.  

13                Additionally, Mr. Ross was the 

14   chairman of the Millions More Movement's Ministry 

15   of Trade and Commerce.  

16                Mr. Ross lived his life with dignity 

17   and grace, always demonstrating a deep and 

18   genuine concern for his fellow human beings and 

19   inspiring others around him to do the same.  

20   Polite, pleasant and always persistent, 

21   Lumon Ross was devoted to his faith, his family, 

22   and to his community.  His passing leaves a void 

23   in the City of Buffalo that can never be filled.  

24                On behalf of a grateful community 

25   that is better because of his life and his many 


                                                               417

 1   contributions, I rise to honor Lumon Ross, who 

 2   was a true pillar in the City of Buffalo and in 

 3   the State of New York.  Our thoughts and prayers 

 4   continue to be with the Ross family and to all 

 5   who mourn him.  

 6                Thank you, Mr. President.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Thank 

 8   you, Senator Kennedy.

 9                The question is on the resolution. 

10   All in favor signify by saying aye.

11                (Response of "Aye.")

12                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:    

13   Opposed, nay.

14                (No response.)

15                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

16   resolution is adopted.

17                Senator Libous.

18                SENATOR LIBOUS:   Thank you, 

19   Mr. President.  

20                I believe there's another 

21   resolution, I believe by Senator Parker, 

22   Resolution Number 3514, at the desk.  I ask that 

23   the title be read and that Senator Tkaczyk be 

24   allowed to speak on the resolution before its 

25   adoption.


                                                               418

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

 2   Secretary will read.

 3                THE SECRETARY:   Legislative 

 4   Resolution Number 3514, by Senator Parker, 

 5   memorializing Governor Andrew M. Cuomo to 

 6   proclaim March 2014 as Early Intervention Month 

 7   in the State of New York.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 9   Tkaczyk.

10                SENATOR TKACZYK:   Thank you, 

11   Mr. President.  

12                I rise in support of this 

13   resolution, and I want to thank Senator Parker 

14   for bringing it to the floor.  This is a 

15   resolution that recognizes March as Early 

16   Intervention Month.  

17                And as the resolution states, the 

18   early years of a child's life are critical to 

19   development.  And during their infant and toddler 

20   years, children grow quickly and have much to 

21   learn.  Some children and families face 

22   challenges and need extra help.  And it's 

23   acknowledged that early help makes a tremendous 

24   difference.

25                Some children are born with 


                                                               419

 1   developmental delays and disabilities.  It is 

 2   crucial that these children receive immediate and 

 3   therapeutic intervention based upon acceptable  

 4   norms and proper treatment upon diagnosis.

 5                The New York State Department of 

 6   Health Bureau of Early Intervention is authorized 

 7   to provide early intervention services for more 

 8   than 75,000 infants and toddlers with 

 9   developmental delays and disabilities, and their 

10   families, throughout the state.  Research 

11   reflects that for every dollar we invest in early 

12   intervention, $7 is saved in future costs in 

13   special education.  We are getting kids ready for 

14   life and ready for school.  

15                However, because of a snafu that 

16   happened in last year's budget, we've changed how 

17   early intervention providers are paid.  And it's 

18   caused tremendous difficulty to those providers 

19   in their ability to provide services to this very 

20   vulnerable population.

21                Early intervention providers are, 

22   frankly, not getting paid timely and they're 

23   going out of business.  Why do I care?  Because 

24   so many of these providers are working in my 

25   communities, in my district, and in rural areas 


                                                               420

 1   where I have providers who are typically 

 2   one-person businesses, typically women working 

 3   out of their homes providing this service.  

 4   They're going out of business because they can't 

 5   get paid.

 6                We think this is an important 

 7   service.  We need to continue to provide it.  And 

 8   as we recognize this Early Intervention Program, 

 9   we also have to recognize that we need a 

10   legislative fix to resolve this problem.  It's 

11   been brought up in hearings.  I introduced 

12   legislation last October.  It was discussed a lot 

13   in the budget hearing.  

14                I'm waiting every day for that 

15   legislative fix to come to the floor.  

16                Please get this legislative fix to 

17   the floor so we can continue to provide early 

18   intervention services to our very vulnerable 

19   New York residents.  

20                Thank you.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Thank 

22   you, Senator Tkaczyk.

23                Senator Stavisky.

24                SENATOR STAVISKY:   Yes, I too thank 

25   Senator Parker for introducing this resolution, 


                                                               421

 1   but I particularly thank Senator Tkaczyk for her 

 2   comments.  

 3                Because I have worked with many of 

 4   the EI, the early intervention providers, and 

 5   they are not getting paid.  And they do save us 

 6   so much money.  It's a lot cheaper for us to 

 7   provide the intervention services now than the 

 8   remediation services at a later date.  

 9                There are institutions in the county 

10   where I live, Queens County, one in particular, a 

11   large hospital for chronically ill children, 

12   St. Mary's, that had to discontinue their early 

13   intervention service because of the funding or 

14   the lack of reimbursement that they have 

15   received.  

16                This is a critical issue for young 

17   people, and I hope that as we resolve budget 

18   issues that this issue is also resolved by 

19   April 1st.  

20                Thank you, Mr. President.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Thank 

22   you, Senator Stavisky.

23                The question is on the resolution. 

24   All in favor signify by saying aye.

25                (Response of "Aye.")


                                                               422

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:    

 2   Opposed, nay.

 3                (No response.)

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

 5   resolution is adopted.

 6                Senator Libous.

 7                SENATOR LIBOUS:   Thank you, 

 8   Mr. President.

 9                At this time could we please move to 

10   the noncontroversial reading of the calendar, 

11   please.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

13   Secretary will read.

14                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

15   103, substituted earlier by Member of the 

16   Assembly Glick, Assembly Print Number 8611, an 

17   act to amend Chapter 192 of the Laws of 2011.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Read 

19   the last section.

20                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

21   act shall take effect immediately.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Call 

23   the roll.

24                (The Secretary called the roll.)

25                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:    


                                                               423

 1   Announce the results.

 2                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 58.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

 4   bill is passed.

 5                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 6   124, by Senator Martins, Senate Print 6409, an 

 7   act to amend the Local Finance Law.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Read 

 9   the last section.

10                THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

11   act shall take effect immediately.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Call 

13   the roll.

14                (The Secretary called the roll.)

15                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:    

16   Announce the results.

17                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 57.  Nays, 1.  

18   Senator Maziarz recorded in the negative.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

20   bill is passed.

21                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

22   132, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 1058, an 

23   act to amend the Penal Law.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Read 

25   the last section.


                                                               424

 1                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 2   act shall take effect on the first of November.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Call 

 4   the roll.

 5                (The Secretary called the roll.)

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:    

 7   Announce the results.

 8                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 58.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

10   bill is passed.

11                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

12   151, by Senator Ball, Senate Print 2801, an act 

13   to amend the Election Law.

14                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Lay it aside.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

16   bill is laid aside.

17                Senator Libous, that completes the 

18   noncontroversial reading of the calendar.

19                SENATOR LIBOUS:   Mr. President, 

20   since we've done that, we will go to the 

21   controversial reading of the calendar.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

23   Secretary will ring the bell.

24                The Secretary will read.

25                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 


                                                               425

 1   151, by Senator Ball, Senate Print 2801, an act 

 2   to amend the Election Law.

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Explanation.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   There 

 5   is an explanation requested.  

 6                Senator Ball.

 7                SENATOR BALL:   So this piece of 

 8   legislation will allow individuals the 

 9   opportunity to register to vote --

10                SENATOR LIBOUS:   Excuse me, 

11   Mr. President, I'm having a difficult time 

12   hearing.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:  Senator 

14   Ball.

15                SENATOR BALL:   This bill will allow 

16   those the opportunity to register to vote at the 

17   same time as they apply for a hunting license, 

18   fishing license, or a combination of both.

19                SENATOR LIBOUS:   Excuse me, 

20   Mr. President, I can't hear the Senator.  

21                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

22   Libous.

23                SENATOR LIBOUS:   If we could just, 

24   the next time the Senator speaks, check the 

25   audio.  I had a very hard time.  And I know that 


                                                               426

 1   I am getting older, and I know that the hearing 

 2   isn't what it was when I was a spry 30 like 

 3   yourself.

 4                (Laughter.)

 5                SENATOR LIBOUS:   However, if they 

 6   could just check that the next time Senator Ball 

 7   gets up.  Because I do want to hear the inspiring 

 8   debate between Senator Krueger and Senator Ball.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   So 

10   ordered.

11                Senator Krueger.

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   If the sponsor 

13   would please yield to an inspiring question.

14                (Laughter.)

15                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Will 

16   the sponsor yield to questions?  

17                SENATOR BALL:   Sure.

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.  

19                In this bill it clarifies that it's 

20   expanding the offices that will be accepting 

21   voter registration with fishing and hunting 

22   licenses to private businesses.  Could the 

23   sponsor please explain to me what these 

24   offices are and where they are and how many there 

25   are?


                                                               427

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 2   Ball.

 3                SENATOR BALL:   So I don't know the 

 4   exact number, but DEC supplies forms to local 

 5   businesses, you know, throughout the state.

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 7   Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to 

 8   yield.

 9                SENATOR BALL:   Sure.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

11   sponsor yields.

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.  

13                Would the sponsor confirm that this 

14   would include sporting good stores, gun and 

15   archery stores, fishing supply stores, bait and 

16   tackle shops?

17                SENATOR BALL:   Yup.

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   If the sponsor 

19   would continue to yield.

20                SENATOR BALL:   Sure.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

22   sponsor yields.

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   And would this 

24   also include things like Walmart, Dick's Sporting 

25   Goods, other big box stores?  


                                                               428

 1                SENATOR BALL:   If they have those 

 2   DEC forms, sure.

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 4   Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to 

 5   allow me to ask inspiring questions.

 6                SENATOR BALL:   Sure.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

 8   sponsor yields.

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.  

10                So I believe I already asked if we 

11   knew how many new locations this would expand 

12   accepting voter registration through DEC 

13   licensing.  Would the sponsor be surprised if I 

14   told him it appears to be 1500 additional 

15   locations, mostly in private stores?

16                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   And 

17   will the sponsor direct the answers to the chair.

18                Continue.

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm sorry, I 

20   didn't hear the answer.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Will 

22   the sponsor direct the answers to the chair.

23                SENATOR BALL:   Whether it be 1500 

24   new opportunities to register to vote or whether 

25   it be 2,000 or 3,000, it's allowing every 


                                                               429

 1   opportunity for citizens to register to vote and 

 2   engage in civic discourse and their civic duty.  

 3   These are all great opportunities.  The more 

 4   people that register to vote would be our goal.  

 5   And I would hope it's yours.

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 7   Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to 

 8   yield.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Does 

10   the sponsor yield?

11                SENATOR BALL:   Sure.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

13   sponsor yields.

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Would the 

15   up-to-1500 potential stores have the right to say 

16   "No, we don't want to do this, we just want to do 

17   the hunting and fishing licenses, we don't want 

18   to get involved with handling voter 

19   registration"?  

20                SENATOR BALL:   So these forms that 

21   are provided, this would actually be part of that 

22   form.  So, you know, it's up to the individual 

23   who wants the right to vote -- who has the right 

24   to vote to exercise that right to fill out that 

25   form.  


                                                               430

 1                I think you're making it a little 

 2   more complicated than it is.  Which isn't 

 3   surprising.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Will 

 5   the sponsor please direct the answers to the 

 6   chair.

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 8   Mr. President, just to clarify my question.  

 9                So right now I am a store and I have 

10   an arrangement with DEC that I'm assuming I 

11   voluntarily went into, as opposed to being 

12   mandated to accept the paperwork for hunting and 

13   fishing licenses.  I believe that's the current 

14   law.  If Senator Ball's bill were to become law, 

15   then those license documents would also include 

16   voter registration material.

17                So my question was, would these 

18   private stores have to agree to handle the voter 

19   registration documents as well as the hunting or 

20   fishing license?

21                SENATOR BALL:   So the form right 

22   now, if you go and you're going to get a fishing 

23   or hunting license, what we're saying is that on 

24   that form you can check a box that you also want 

25   to register to vote.  And it's that simple.


                                                               431

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 2   Mr. President.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Does 

 4   the sponsor continue to yield?

 5                SENATOR BALL:   I will.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 7   Krueger.

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.  

 9                So if I understand correctly, the 

10   stores, having accepted taking hunting and 

11   fishing licenses, would have to now also agree to 

12   handle voter registration forms or get out of the 

13   business of handling any licenses.  It would be 

14   all or nothing; is that correct?

15                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

16   Ball.

17                SENATOR BALL:   That is not 

18   correct --

19                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Hold 

20   on.  Can we get Senator Ball's mic on?

21                SENATOR BALL:   -- shutting mine 

22   off.

23                (Laughter.)

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I certainly 

25   didn't.


                                                               432

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 2   Ball, if you continue, your mic is on.

 3                SENATOR BALL:   Okay.  No, that's 

 4   not the purpose of the bill.  This is to simply 

 5   allow on the form for fishing and hunting 

 6   licenses for you to check off and say that you'd 

 7   also like to register to vote.  

 8                So this doesn't create an undue 

 9   burden upon businesses in any way.  We're just 

10   allowing, at the time of registration, for a 

11   fishing or a hunting license or a combination 

12   thereof to also exercise your right as a citizen 

13   to register to vote.  It's that simple.  

14                This is not complicated.  And it's 

15   simply allowing people another opportunity to 

16   register to vote, which I think everybody can 

17   agree is a good thing and is not dissimilar to 

18   efforts instituted by President Bill Clinton in 

19   1993 as part of the National Voter Registration 

20   Act, the Motor Voter Act that we all know about.  

21   So pretty simple stuff.  

22                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

23   Krueger.

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

25   Mr. President, I love helping people register to 


                                                               433

 1   vote.  That's not the reason for my questions on 

 2   this bill.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Does 

 4   the sponsor continue to yield?  

 5                SENATOR BALL:   Yes.

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

 8   sponsor yields.

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So again, if this 

10   bill became law, if you were a private store that 

11   was handling the licenses for hunting and 

12   fishing, you must also handle the voter 

13   registration documents, as I read the bill.  

14                The law existing says that you are 

15   supposed to help people with their voter 

16   registration if they have any questions or 

17   confusion.  So under this bill, would we be 

18   requiring private stores to assist people with 

19   the filling out of their voter registration 

20   forms?

21                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

22   Ball.

23                SENATOR BALL:   So all this does is 

24   right now these same businesses, entities, have 

25   these license forms.  All this is doing is 


                                                               434

 1   changing that license form so you can also 

 2   register to vote.  That's what this does.  

 3                And I understand that it's suggested 

 4   that we all support allowing for greater voter 

 5   registration, and that's what this does.  And I 

 6   hope that there isn't a concern that hunters and 

 7   fishermen and sportsmen would be registering to 

 8   vote.  I hope that that's not the basis of any 

 9   concern here.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

11   Krueger.

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

13   Mr. President, that's not my concern at all.  I'm 

14   perfectly delighted to have sportsmen register --

15                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Does 

16   the sponsor continue to yield?  

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Well, I haven't 

18   gotten to the question yet.  I'm sorry, I was 

19   just clarifying that no, I am not opposed to 

20   hunters or fishermen voting.  I think everybody 

21   should register to vote.  

22                My questions are more in the path of 

23   the new responsibilities being applied, perhaps 

24   for the first time in state law, to private 

25   entities to handle voter registration.  And the 


                                                               435

 1   fact that we do have a precedent in law of things 

 2   you must do if you're handling voter 

 3   registration, including assist people in the 

 4   process.  

 5                The next question, if the sponsor 

 6   will yield.  

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Will 

 8   the sponsor yield?

 9                SENATOR BALL:   Yes.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

11   sponsor yields.  

12                Senator Krueger.

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.  

14                Will the store understand the 

15   responsibilities -- and how will we make sure 

16   they do -- to in a timely fashion move the voter 

17   registration applications to the correct 

18   location?  

19                Because there's a time limit of how 

20   long you have to move a voter registration form 

21   to the Board of Election.  Will that all be -- 

22   it's not clear it's in the law.  But will that 

23   all be laid out and ensure that private 

24   companies, perhaps up to 1500 sites, will 

25   understand there's new protocols that may require 


                                                               436

 1   training to make sure they meet the obligations 

 2   under our Election Law to assist people with 

 3   their voter registration and ensure the proper 

 4   transfer of the papers in a timely manner to the 

 5   Board of Election?  

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 7   Ball.

 8                SENATOR BALL:   One of my greatest 

 9   attributes, I believe, is that I'm not an 

10   attorney.  And this conversation reminds me of 

11   why I didn't become an attorney.  

12                This is very simple.  These forms 

13   right now, these businesses right now allow men 

14   and women to register for a fishing or hunting 

15   license.  We are going to change that application 

16   so you can also register to vote.  Those forms 

17   then go to the DEC.  And the DEC, according to 

18   Subdivision 7, states "The completed application 

19   forms received by the DEC are then transmitted by 

20   such department to the appropriate Board of 

21   Elections."

22                So it's the DEC, in coordination 

23   with the State Board of Elections.  And then 

24   Subdivision 9 states:  "The Board of Elections 

25   processes the application and sends appropriate 


                                                               437

 1   notice of approval or rejection."

 2                So there seems to be a clear 

 3   misunderstanding and trying to create a debate 

 4   where there is no debate.  The State Board of 

 5   Elections will do their job.  The DEC will 

 6   process and do their job.  And there will be 

 7   forms at these entities, as there are now.  The 

 8   only difference is that the forms will also allow 

 9   somebody the right to register to vote.

10                The very concept of trying to create 

11   the illusion that this somehow ensnares these 

12   entities into a role of the State Board of 

13   Elections is not only spurious, it's absolutely 

14   incorrect and, in my opinion, is being portrayed 

15   here today for no other reason than to throw an 

16   illusion and to thwart efforts to allow sportsmen 

17   the right to register to vote.  And that's what's 

18   really happening today.  

19                So unless there's a deeper question, 

20   I think it's time now to let this debate rest.  

21   Unless there's a deeper question there.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

23   Krueger.

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

25   Mr. President, I don't think anything spurious is 


                                                               438

 1   happening.  I didn't go to law school either, but 

 2   I have figured out we're in the business of 

 3   making laws, making sure people can follow the 

 4   laws, and we need to understand the laws we pass.

 5                Paragraph 8 of the Senator's bill 

 6   affirms that "Disclosure of voter registration 

 7   information by the DEC, its agent or employees 

 8   for other than voter registration purposes shall 

 9   be deemed an unwarranted invasion of personal 

10   privacy under the Public Officers Law."

11                Can the Public Officers Law apply to 

12   employees of private businesses in this manner?  

13   Because in fact in this bill we would be applying 

14   those requirements to private company employees.  

15   And there's a whole chain of command -- excuse 

16   me, chain of custody issue in privacy rights with 

17   voter registration.

18                So the Senator does seem to 

19   recognize that in paragraph 8 of his bill.  But I 

20   just don't know whether it actually does apply to 

21   private businesses and private employees of 

22   private businesses, so I'm not sure our laws 

23   would jibe would each other.  

24                Can the Senator answer that, please?

25                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Does 


                                                               439

 1   the sponsor yield?

 2                SENATOR BALL:   Yes.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

 4   Senator yields.

 5                SENATOR BALL:   Subdivision 8 

 6   specifically applies to employees and the DEC, 

 7   and it prohibits the disclosure of voter 

 8   registration information for any other purpose 

 9   than voter registration by DEC or its employees.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

11   Krueger.  

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

13   Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to 

14   yield.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Does 

16   the sponsor yield?

17                SENATOR BALL:   Sure.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

19   sponsor yields.

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.  

21                Yes, I understand that part.  But 

22   the Public Officers Law, I don't know if that 

23   applies to a Walmart clerk.  But this law appears 

24   that it would require it of the Walmart clerk, so 

25   I'm trying to get a clarification.  Have we 


                                                               440

 1   figured out whether the standards and laws that 

 2   apply under the Public Officers Law would apply 

 3   now, if this became law, to all employees who 

 4   might be handling voter registration in any one 

 5   of these 1500 stores?  

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 7   Ball.

 8                SENATOR BALL:   Okay, so to say this 

 9   once again on this point.  Subdivision 8 

10   specifically applies to the DEC or its employees.  

11   It prohibits the disclosure of voter registration 

12   information for any other purpose than voter 

13   registration by the DEC and its employees.  

14                Walmart is not listed in there, 

15   Dick's Sporting Goods is not listed in there, my 

16   uncle's Shot Shop in Dutchess County is not 

17   listed there.  It's the DEC or its employees.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

19   Krueger.  

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you, 

21   Mr. President.  If the sponsor would continue to 

22   yield.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Does 

24   the sponsor yield?

25                SENATOR BALL:   Yes.


                                                               441

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Yes, 

 2   the sponsor yields.  

 3                Senator Krueger.

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So the sponsor 

 5   and I have both agreed we are big supporters of 

 6   expanded voter registration.  If I'm a customer 

 7   at any of these stores but I don't wish a 

 8   hunting/fishing license but I would like to 

 9   register to vote, will his bill require they 

10   assist me to register to vote even if I'm not 

11   looking for the hunting or fishing license?  

12                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

13   Ball.

14                SENATOR BALL:   These separate 

15   questions you are reading and trying to create a 

16   problem where there is none.  This is a piece of 

17   legislation that will allow those individuals who 

18   are registering to get a fishing or hunting 

19   license or a combination to also register to 

20   vote.  That's specifically what it does.  It's 

21   simply what it does.  And it will simply allow 

22   more people the right to register to vote and to 

23   engage in the civic process.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

25   Krueger.


                                                               442

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Mr. President, if 

 2   the sponsor would continue to yield.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Does 

 4   the sponsor yield?  

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So the sponsor 

 6   has argued he wants to make sure that people who 

 7   are registering for hunting and fishing licenses 

 8   to be able to register to vote at the same time.  

 9   I have told him I agree, everybody who's a hunter 

10   or fisherman should be encouraged and supported 

11   to register to vote.  

12                I don't understand why all the other 

13   clients of these 1500 stores shouldn't have equal 

14   rights to take advantage of the right to register 

15   to vote at these locations.  Is the sponsor 

16   actually opposed to non-hunters-and-fishermen 

17   being able to register to vote?

18                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

19   Ball.

20                SENATOR BALL:   So I guess by that 

21   suggestion we could say that the Motor Voter Act 

22   of 1993, that those people that did not have a 

23   driver's license or do not go to the Motor 

24   Vehicles, that in some way that we tried to 

25   infringe upon their rights.  


                                                               443

 1                So that's not -- that's not the 

 2   intent in any way.  And I can continue to repeat 

 3   myself, but I'm not going to.  I think my 

 4   previous points stand.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 6   Krueger.

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 8   Mr. President, I will speak on the bill because 

 9   my colleague doesn't wish to answer more 

10   questions.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

12   Krueger on the bill.  

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.

14                I want people to be able to register 

15   to vote.  I want them to get help where they 

16   register to vote when they need it; it can be 

17   confusing.  I would like more access to voter 

18   registration.  I think that's a good thing for 

19   every citizen of the state to be able to easily 

20   register to vote.

21                I am fundamentally concerned with 

22   our mandating this activity onto private 

23   businesses without requiring training or even 

24   specific criteria of making sure they understand 

25   what new legal obligations they would be taking 


                                                               444

 1   on upon themselves if they handled voter 

 2   registration.  

 3                I in fact don't know, if we were to 

 4   ask any of these 1500 stores if they want to be 

 5   responsible for the voter registration of the 

 6   citizens of New York, whether they would say 

 7   "Yes, I want to do that."

 8                I still don't have an answer that I 

 9   understand to the question of if I'm a store that 

10   currently handles DEC licenses, can I say "No, 

11   thank you, I think it's a step too far to handle 

12   the voter registration"?  So why would I actually 

13   have to give up my right to handle hunting and 

14   fish license because I don't want to take on the 

15   responsibility, under Public Officers Law, and 

16   the liability of handling voter registration?  

17                I am concerned that an unintended 

18   consequence of this bill could be hundreds of 

19   stores saying "No, we're not in the voter 

20   registration business, I guess we just won't be 

21   able to do hunting and fishing licenses."  I 

22   don't think that is the sponsor's intent, but I 

23   think that is open to debate as to whether that 

24   would happen.  

25                I also feel fundamentally that if 


                                                               445

 1   you're going to agree to take on the 

 2   responsibility of voter registration, you 

 3   shouldn't be able to say no to someone because 

 4   they don't wish a hunting and fishing license.

 5                Right now other places where voter 

 6   registration forms are attached to other kinds of 

 7   applications for other activities -- and it's 

 8   absolutely true, there's lots of models like 

 9   that.  If you apply for social services, if you 

10   go to DMV, if you go online with DMV.  But 

11   there's nothing that says unless you are going to 

12   also do this you can't voter register.  

13                And so I'm very concerned that 

14   there's not a clarification that if I'm just the 

15   mom going to Walmart to buy my groceries, that I 

16   might not have the right to register to vote in 

17   this store, even though other people have the 

18   right because they choose to get a hunting/ 

19   fishing license -- which has a cost, as I 

20   believe.  They're not free.

21                So I am very concerned that we would 

22   be setting up a two-tiered model not discouraging 

23   hunting/fishing licenses from those people from 

24   voting -- excuse me, not trying to discourage 

25   people who hunt and fish from registering to 


                                                               446

 1   vote, but rather putting up a new wall preventing 

 2   people who don't hunt and fish from being able to 

 3   register to vote at the same locations as their 

 4   neighbors.  

 5                So I have many concerns about this 

 6   bill that have not been answered today.  I don't 

 7   think this is something we should be rushing 

 8   through.  I think we should be having discussions 

 9   with the stores, in particular, because they're 

10   the ones being handed all this new 

11   responsibility, and I haven't heard from any of 

12   them they're rushing to take on this 

13   responsibility.  

14                I know that DEC is in the process of 

15   computerizing many of their licenses, I believe 

16   including hunting/fishing.  I don't know what the 

17   impact would be on that program if we were to 

18   open up paper registration in 1500 

19   nongovernmental facilities.

20                I'm actually not convinced that this 

21   bill wouldn't have the reverse outcome of what I 

22   believe the sponsor and I both want:  more 

23   ability to register to vote in more locations in 

24   an easier, fair way throughout the state.  

25                I urge my colleagues to vote no.  


                                                               447

 1   Thank you.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Thank 

 3   you, Senator Krueger.

 4                Senator Gianaris.

 5                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Would the 

 6   sponsor yield for a few questions, Mr. President?

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Does 

 8   the sponsor yield?

 9                SENATOR BALL:   Yes.  How are you?  

10                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

11   sponsor yields.  

12                Senator Gianaris.

13                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you, 

14   Mr. President.  

15                I'm curious if the sponsor thinks 

16   that hunters and fishermen in particular have 

17   been disenfranchised in this state as a group, as 

18   opposed to other residents or the state.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

20   Ball.

21                SENATOR BALL:   So 1993, that 

22   ultraconservative Bill Clinton passed the Motor 

23   Voter Act allowing more people to engage in the 

24   process.  This simply follows up on that.  And we 

25   have 700,000 folks, sportsmen, fishing licenses, 


                                                               448

 1   hunting licenses, and we want to provide them the 

 2   opportunity to also register to vote similar to 

 3   what was done at the federal level in 1993 by 

 4   President Clinton.  So that's what we're doing 

 5   here.

 6                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Would the 

 7   sponsor continue to yield, Mr. President.

 8                SENATOR BALL:   Sure.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

10   Gianaris.

11                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I think there's 

12   a distinction between the Motor Voter Law, which 

13   applied to millions of people and dealt with 

14   people applying for driver's licenses, or even 

15   non-driver IDs, which covers millions and 

16   millions of people throughout this state, and 

17   what might be called a niche group in terms of 

18   hunters and fishermen -- that's not my term, 

19   that's Citizens Union's term.  And I'm curious 

20   why the sponsor is focused on hunters and 

21   fishermen only among the many people that 

22   interact with state agencies that might benefit 

23   from the ability to register to vote.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

25   Ball.


                                                               449

 1                SENATOR BALL:   So what I think 

 2   should happen is some of the members that have 

 3   concerns on the piece of legislation but suggest 

 4   that they also support enhanced voter 

 5   registration, they should join me, cosponsor the 

 6   bill, and let's expand the categories in the 

 7   future.  I don't see any problem with having 

 8   input into this to even expand the efforts.  

 9                But this is a very specific piece of 

10   legislation.  We have people that are currently 

11   filling out hunting and fishing licenses, and 

12   it's an easy way, a quick way to allow those same 

13   people the right to register to vote.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

15   Gianaris.  

16                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Would the 

17   sponsor yield, Mr. President?  

18                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

19   sponsor yields, Senator Gianaris.

20                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I think the 

21   sponsor pointed out correctly this is a very 

22   specific piece of legislation and it applies to a 

23   very specific group of people.  And I'll ask my 

24   original question again.  Is it his position that 

25   the universe of people addressed in this 


                                                               450

 1   legislation is particularly disenfranchised, as 

 2   opposed to people who don't fall within that 

 3   category?  

 4                SENATOR BALL:   I answered that 

 5   question previously.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 7   Gianaris.

 8                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Would the 

 9   sponsor continue to yield?

10                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Does 

11   the sponsor yield?

12                SENATOR BALL:   Sure.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

14   Gianaris, the sponsor yields.

15                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Does the sponsor 

16   agree with Citizens Union, which in their memo on 

17   this very bill said that "To ensure that laws are 

18   actually enacted removing barriers to voter 

19   registration, it will require that Democrats and 

20   Republicans put aside efforts to gain electoral 

21   advantage and instead agree to combine proposals 

22   or pass multiple bills that enable New Yorkers to 

23   more easily register regardless of which party 

24   they are more likely to vote for"?  

25                And I think the point Citizens Union 


                                                               451

 1   is trying to make is that arguably the intent of 

 2   this legislation is to get people who are more 

 3   likely to skew towards a certain political 

 4   persuasion more ability to register to vote.  And 

 5   why would we not do something, such as a bill 

 6   that I have proposed, which is open up all state 

 7   agencies and all interactions with state agencies 

 8   to the same benefit, as opposed to picking just 

 9   one category of people?  

10                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

11   Ball.

12                SENATOR BALL:   And I applaud those 

13   efforts and wish you the best of luck with that 

14   piece of legislation, but that's not the piece of 

15   legislation before us today.  

16                The one before us today is a simple 

17   piece of legislation, and sportsmen are not 

18   Democrat, Republican, independent, vegetarian, 

19   vegan.  They're sportsmen.  That there's no way 

20   to figure out how they're going to vote or what 

21   their inclination is, and that's not what this 

22   legislation is about.  

23                This legislation says that out of 

24   the 700,000 people that have fishing licenses and 

25   hunting licenses, that we also offer them the 


                                                               452

 1   opportunity to register at the same time to vote.  

 2   It does not put an undue burden on the 

 3   businesses.  The process is in place, and the 

 4   coordination is between DEC and the State Board 

 5   of Elections.  And it's clear.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 7   Gianaris.

 8                SENATOR GIANARIS:   On the bill, 

 9   Mr. President.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

11   Gianaris on the bill.

12                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I think the 

13   sponsor's last point was well-taken.  There are 

14   in fact people who are hunters and fishermen who 

15   fall under any political persuasion.  

16                And in fact when we dealt with an 

17   important piece of legislation last year that 

18   regulated firearms, we did have bipartisan 

19   support.  And I want to thank Senator Skelos and 

20   the Republicans for allowing us to vote on the 

21   SAFE Act last year, because it was in fact an 

22   important accomplishment for our state.

23                But nonetheless, I agree with 

24   Citizens Union's point, which is if we're going 

25   to open up pathways to voter registration, which 


                                                               453

 1   I wholeheartedly support and have for my entire  

 2   career, it's important that we do so in a uniform 

 3   fashion so that not only people who are 

 4   interacting with one particular agency get this 

 5   benefit, but people that interact with all the 

 6   state agencies get this benefit, whether they're 

 7   seeking a hunting license or housing assistance 

 8   or social services or any of a variety of 

 9   opportunities that the state provides.  

10                And so for that reason, I will vote 

11   no on this legislation, as I have in the past, 

12   but will continue working with the sponsor to 

13   broaden the approach.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

15   Ball.

16                SENATOR BALL:   So would -- is it 

17   true at this point in time that those 

18   registering --

19                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

20   point of order.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Point 

22   of order, Senator Gianaris.  

23                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Is Senator Ball 

24   speaking on the bill?  Or I don't know what 

25   status he has right now.


                                                               454

 1                SENATOR BALL:   Do you yield for a 

 2   question?  

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Does 

 4   Senator Gianaris yield for a question?  

 5                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Yes, 

 6   Mr. President.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   He 

 8   yields.  

 9                Senator Ball.

10                SENATOR BALL:   I promise this won't 

11   be as heated as Sean Hannity's show.

12                (Laughter.)

13                SENATOR BALL:   So is it true that 

14   right now those registering for social services 

15   are offered the opportunity to register to vote?  

16                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I'm sorry, I 

17   couldn't hear the question.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

19   Ball, will you please repeat the question.  

20                SENATOR BALL:   Those folks who are 

21   registering for social services, are they 

22   afforded the opportunity to register to vote?  

23                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

24   Gianaris.

25                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, I 


                                                               455

 1   believe in certain instances they are, yes.

 2                SENATOR BALL:   And does the speaker 

 3   support those efforts?

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 5   Gianaris, do you continue to yield?  

 6                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Yes, I do.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 8   Ball.

 9                SENATOR BALL:   Does the Senator 

10   support those efforts?

11                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

12   Gianaris.  

13                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

14   my point of view is that anyone that interacts 

15   with a state agency should have the opportunity 

16   to register to vote, whether it's opportunities 

17   that are already afforded or opportunities that 

18   we're proposing.

19                And I don't think -- let me answer 

20   the question, please, Senator Ball.  I believe 

21   that we shouldn't try and balance the playing 

22   field or level things out by picking one -- what 

23   is called by Citizens Union a niche group, as 

24   opposed to another that might be viewed by others 

25   as another niche group.  


                                                               456

 1                Let's just open it to everyone at 

 2   every state agency and make sure that all people 

 3   in this state -- upstate, downstate, suburban, 

 4   Republican, Democrat and everything in between -- 

 5   has the same opportunity to register to vote, 

 6   which is what the goal should be.

 7                SENATOR BALL:   Well, if --

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   And 

 9   I'd just ask the Senators to address all their 

10   questions and comments to the chair.

11                Senator Ball.

12                SENATOR BALL:   Will the speaker 

13   continue to yield.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Does 

15   the speaker yield?  

16                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Yes, sir.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

18   Ball.

19                SENATOR BALL:   So to the extent 

20   that you support everybody interacting with a 

21   state agency to register to vote, I just have one 

22   final question.  Is the DEC a state agency?

23                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

24   Gianaris.

25                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I would think 


                                                               457

 1   the sponsor would know the answer to that, since 

 2   he's a state legislator.  But yes, the DEC is a 

 3   state agency.

 4                And if I can continue speaking on 

 5   the bill.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 7   Gianaris on the bill.

 8                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I think what's 

 9   clear is that DEC is one state agency, one of 

10   dozens of state agencies.  And why would we 

11   single out a particular one in which to incur 

12   this benefit, as opposed to broadening it to 

13   apply to all state agencies with which people 

14   interact?  

15                And for the reasons I indicated, 

16   I'll be voting no at this time, even though I do 

17   support the goal of greater voter registration.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Thank 

19   you, Senator Gianaris.

20                Senator Sanders.

21                SENATOR SANDERS:   On the bill.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

23   Sanders on the bill.

24                SENATOR SANDERS:   I'm going to take 

25   up my colleague's offer later to work with him on 


                                                               458

 1   it.  I do have some concerns on the bill itself.  

 2   It strikes me as an unfunded mandate on business 

 3   that we should really watch doing.  

 4                And I personally favor registration 

 5   upon demand.  I favor same-day registration 

 6   where, if a person comes and if they're an 

 7   American citizen 364 days out of the year, on the 

 8   365th day they should be able to register and 

 9   vote.

10                So I think that I like the direction 

11   that the sponsor is going.  I think that we need 

12   to go even further.  So I have every intention of 

13   working with him, and perhaps we can figure a way 

14   that we can write it in a way that it is not an 

15   unfunded mandate on business.

16                Thank you very much.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Thank 

18   you, Senator Sanders.

19                Senator Squadron.

20                SENATOR SQUADRON:   Thank you.  If 

21   the sponsor would yield.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Does 

23   the sponsor yield?  

24                SENATOR BALL:   Yes.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 


                                                               459

 1   sponsor yields.

 2                Senator Squadron.

 3                SENATOR SQUADRON:   Thank you very 

 4   much.  

 5                And I want to thank my colleagues 

 6   for the debate here.  This is -- I've really got 

 7   to tell you, my initial instinct was exactly what 

 8   I think many of ours are, which are let's expand 

 9   the ability to register to vote and participate 

10   in the process.  And thank goodness finally on 

11   the Senate floor we have that opportunity after 

12   so many bills that do that have not made it here 

13   and not allowed this kind of conversation.  

14                This is a little bit of a strange 

15   one, though, and the debate has shown that, what 

16   I've heard of the debate.  As an inveterate 

17   mumbler, I also appreciate the extent to which 

18   this debate has been followed up through mumbles.  

19   And so forgive me if the sponsor has answered any 

20   of these questions before.  

21                But I just want to really fully 

22   understand, because I think the sponsor may have 

23   said something that is different than my 

24   understanding of the bill when I supported it in 

25   the past.  


                                                               460

 1                The sponsor's view is that you 

 2   should not be allowed to register to vote at a 

 3   DEC-approved hunting/fishing license location 

 4   unless you are also getting a license?

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 6   Ball.

 7                SENATOR BALL:   Well, I think back 

 8   to the misconception by -- back to some of the 

 9   previous misconceptions, this does not turn the 

10   business in any way into an extended arm of the 

11   State Board of Elections.  The DEC will 

12   coordinate specifically with the State Board of 

13   Elections, and they will both contemporaneously 

14   do their duties.

15                So all we're saying is right now if 

16   you apply for a fishing license, you apply for a 

17   hunting license or a combination, that on that 

18   form you will also have the opportunity to 

19   register to vote.

20                SENATOR SQUADRON:   If the sponsor 

21   will yield.

22                SENATOR BALL:   Sure.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

24   sponsor yields.  

25                Senator Squadron.


                                                               461

 1                SENATOR SQUADRON:   And I know 

 2   there's a prohibition on using props on the 

 3   Senate floor, so I will not take out of my wallet 

 4   my fishing license.  But I do have one in my 

 5   wallet because on my birthday I took my son to go 

 6   fishing for the first time, in Brooklyn.  Went 

 7   down to Sheepshead Bay and got a little fishing 

 8   rod and had a fishing license.  I got a fishing 

 9   license; my wife did not.  And we are both 

10   registered to vote, I know you'll be pleased to 

11   hear.  

12                But under this bill, if neither of 

13   us were registered to vote, if we were new 

14   citizens who had come to this country and just 

15   gotten our citizenship, taking our son to fish 

16   for the first time in the neighborhood -- we 

17   caught nothing, as I'm sure you can imagine -- I 

18   would be a registered voter at this point but my 

19   wife wouldn't have had the same opportunity to 

20   register to vote at that point that I got the 

21   fishing license.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

23   Ball.

24                SENATOR BALL:   There are probably a 

25   myriad of different examples searching for a 


                                                               462

 1   problem that doesn't exist.  If you get a fishing 

 2   license or a hunting license, under this 

 3   legislation you will also be afforded the 

 4   opportunity to register to vote.  As we know, 

 5   there are many other ways that -- most people 

 6   probably in this chamber registered to vote and 

 7   didn't do so through a hunting and fishing 

 8   license.  So there are many other ways.  

 9                In fact, just in the floor debate we 

10   just heard that those that are registering for 

11   social services are not only afforded the 

12   opportunity but guided to register to vote.  

13   That's a different state agency.  

14                This is the DEC.  It will expand 

15   upon previous work, including the 1993 

16   legislation and previous work in other chambers.  

17   That's all it does.  It continues to allow those 

18   who want the right to vote to register and vote, 

19   as other agencies do in this great state.  That's 

20   it.

21                SENATOR SQUADRON:   If the sponsor 

22   would continue to yield.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Does 

24   the sponsor yield?

25                SENATOR BALL:   Yes.


                                                               463

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 2   Squadron.

 3                SENATOR SQUADRON:   And I'm glad you 

 4   brought up the ability to register when you apply 

 5   for certain social services.  Was that model the 

 6   one that was used in drafting this bill?  In that 

 7   case, as in this bill, is there a -- is it on the 

 8   same form?  Is there the prohibition, as there is 

 9   on this bill, in repeating information?  Is that 

10   how it works when you apply for social services?  

11   Is that how this bill was formulated?

12                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

13   Ball.

14                SENATOR BALL:   This is based on the 

15   DMV model.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

17   Squadron.

18                SENATOR SQUADRON:   Just a 

19   clarification of the question I asked.  So if the 

20   sponsor would continue to yield to clarify.

21                SENATOR BALL:   Sure.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

23   sponsor yields.  

24                Senator Squadron.

25                SENATOR SQUADRON:   This model is 


                                                               464

 1   not based on the model of what happens when you 

 2   apply for social services.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   I'll 

 4   just remind the Senators to address all their 

 5   comments through the chair.

 6                SENATOR SQUADRON:   Through you, 

 7   Mr. President.  Forgive me.  

 8                This is not based on the model of 

 9   what happens when you apply for social services, 

10   just to clarify?  

11                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

12   Ball.

13                SENATOR BALL:   That fact came out 

14   in this debate.  This is very specific 

15   legislation, so . . .

16                SENATOR SQUADRON:   If the sponsor 

17   would continue to yield.

18                SENATOR BALL:   Yeah.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

20   sponsor yields.  

21                Senator Squadron.

22                SENATOR SQUADRON:   We do have a 

23   certain way in which you are offered a voter 

24   registration form, I believe, when you apply for 

25   social services that exists in the state.  Why 


                                                               465

 1   not match this with the way that we ask people 

 2   applying for social services to register?  And 

 3   why not align those two things so that they're 

 4   identical?

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 6   Ball.

 7                SENATOR BALL:   You know, if you 

 8   look at the sections where it talks about the DEC 

 9   and the State Board of Elections, they will 

10   still, within their confines and within their 

11   regulations, do their job.  And this will be 

12   executed to the same level of excellency of any 

13   other program, so . . .

14                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

15   Squadron.

16                SENATOR SQUADRON:   If the sponsor 

17   would continue to yield.  Again, to clarify, 

18   because --

19                SENATOR BALL:   Sure.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

21   sponsor yields.

22                SENATOR SQUADRON:   I know there's a 

23   relationship with the DMV that is the affirmative 

24   relationship that was being considered here, 

25   President Clinton's Motor Voter.  


                                                               466

 1                We've also had some talk, and in 

 2   fact the sponsor raised before I did the issue of 

 3   applying to register to vote when you apply for 

 4   social services.  And I'm really curious here 

 5   whether we should align this registration with 

 6   that registration that already exists that's one 

 7   of the sponsor's examples of why this is 

 8   important.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

10   Ball.

11                SENATOR BALL:   I just feel you're 

12   trying to draw a connection.  So if you want to 

13   just state your point, flesh it out, and if you 

14   want my opinion on that.  

15                But you're searching for a windmill 

16   in these conversations.  There really isn't a 

17   debate to be had here.  I mean, this is simply 

18   allowing for greater voter registration.  

19                It's not an unfunded mandate in any 

20   way.  These businesses are already doing this.  

21   They're going to work with the DEC, the DEC is 

22   going to work with the State Board of Elections.  

23   And this will allow people the opportunity to 

24   exercise their right to vote.  

25                If the fact is that some in this 


                                                               467

 1   chamber do not want to allow hunters, fishermen 

 2   and sportsmen in this state to have greater 

 3   access and to have the right to vote, just be 

 4   honest about that, state that on the floor, vote 

 5   no on the bill and collect a check.

 6                But to try to create a false debate 

 7   and to try to create a thousand different 

 8   windmills of problems to hide the fact that maybe 

 9   at the end of the day you just don't want 

10   sportsmen to have the right to register to vote 

11   when they get their hunting and fishing license, 

12   just be honest about it.  No need to be 

13   disingenuous and just spend 45 minutes creating 

14   false illusions.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

16   Squadron.

17                SENATOR SQUADRON:   Well, I don't 

18   think I was asked to yield to a question there, 

19   but there seemed to be a question about my 

20   motives contained, so I will yield to the 

21   question and respond to it.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

23   Squadron on the bill.

24                SENATOR SQUADRON:   Thank you.  

25                I think it's pretty clear to the 


                                                               468

 1   sponsor, or it should be, what we're trying to do 

 2   here.  I actually am really concerned about 

 3   opening up access to register to vote.  This is 

 4   the first bill that I recall that I've seen that 

 5   actually does that on the floor of this house, 

 6   though there are dozens, literally, that would 

 7   open up access to register to vote in a whole lot 

 8   of ways.

 9                As I mentioned to the sponsor, I am 

10   certainly not a serious fisherman by any stretch 

11   of the imagination, but I do hold a fishing 

12   license.  And I do hold my right to vote and my 

13   voter registration dear, simultaneously.  

14                And it's strange that the sponsor, 

15   rather than answer a simple question about the 

16   mechanics of this bill, instead chooses to go on 

17   the offensive, build up a straw man and not 

18   explain why it is that we would create an 

19   entirely new registration form in this context 

20   when we haven't done it in the social services 

21   context.

22                The truth is I've supported this 

23   bill in the past because I want to open up 

24   registration to vote in every way we possibly 

25   can.  


                                                               469

 1                Here are the problems with this 

 2   bill, as it turns out, thanks to -- as has come 

 3   out during this debate.  The first is you cannot 

 4   register to vote if you are not paying to apply 

 5   for a license.  

 6                That is completely different than 

 7   what happens when you apply for social services.  

 8   You have a tear-off, you can apply to register to 

 9   vote even if you don't apply for the social 

10   services.  That's about what happens when you go 

11   to the DMV.  If you go to the DMV and you don't 

12   want to get a driver's license or you don't want 

13   to get a nondriver ID, you can register to vote 

14   at the DMV without paying the state money.

15                This would be, as far as I know -- 

16   I'm sure the sponsor would jump up if he knew of 

17   a different example -- this is the first example 

18   I know of where you had to purchase the product 

19   in order to register to vote.  That's problem 

20   one.  In the case of my wife, she wouldn't be 

21   able to register.

22                The second is we're creating an 

23   entirely new registration form here.  Which is an 

24   interesting concept, but which I worry about 

25   doing it for one agency only, as opposed to for 


                                                               470

 1   all of the state agencies where you can register 

 2   to vote.  Because if this is the way that we can 

 3   really ensure people interacting with state 

 4   agencies are more likely to register, we should 

 5   do it beyond this one.  

 6                And forgive me for being skeptical 

 7   of the fact that we're going to see another bill 

 8   on this floor that makes it more easy to vote 

 9   when over the last three years or so they have 

10   been few and far between.

11                So there's a real concern here that 

12   this bill is doing what it says it's doing -- 

13   which I do support -- and what the sponsor claims 

14   is the goal here, which is to make it easier for 

15   more people to register to vote when they 

16   interact with state agencies, whether they're 

17   getting hunting licenses, fishing licenses, food 

18   stamps, public assistance or a driver's license.  

19   Or become citizens.  At any one of those points, 

20   we want people to register to vote.  

21                I want to be clear, I want every one 

22   of those folks to register.  I wish we had a 

23   hundred percent registration among all of those 

24   groups and many others.  I wish we had a hundred 

25   percent participation in actually voting.  The 


                                                               471

 1   fact that we don't has been one of the major 

 2   issues that I've taken on in my time in the 

 3   Legislature.  

 4                This bill is designed to tighten it 

 5   and make it more difficult, not make it easier, 

 6   despite its stated aims.  And I've in fact been 

 7   convinced of that despite the fact that -- and I 

 8   want to say very clear I support the mission.  

 9   Get people -- make it more easy to register to 

10   vote when you get your hunting license.  Make it 

11   more easy to register to vote when you get your 

12   food stamps.  Make it more easy to register to 

13   vote when my son and I go for a little fishing 

14   license so that we can go fish off the pier in 

15   Bay Ridge.  

16                I support every one of those things.  

17   I don't think this bill does that, as it turns 

18   out.  I would be happy to work with the sponsor 

19   on a bill that did all of those things.  

20                Thank you, Mr. President.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Thank 

22   you, Senator Squadron.

23                Senator Stavisky.

24                SENATOR STAVISKY:   Thank you, 

25   Mr. President.  Will the sponsor yield for a 


                                                               472

 1   couple of questions?  

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

 3   sponsor yields.  

 4                Senator Stavisky.

 5                SENATOR STAVISKY:   Mr. President, 

 6   through you.  If a student turns 18 and is about 

 7   to graduate from high school, would you extend 

 8   your legislation to include, as a state agency, 

 9   the State Education Department, requiring them to 

10   provide every student graduating from a high 

11   school, public or private, in New York State with 

12   a voter registration form?

13                SENATOR BALL:   So the legislation 

14   before us is specific to hunting and fishing 

15   licenses.  And that's a hypothetical question.  

16                But I'm happy offline to meet and to 

17   talk about any future legislation that you intend 

18   to introduce or want to partner on.

19                But today we have a piece of 

20   legislation that would allow those applying for 

21   hunting and fishing licenses to register to vote, 

22   so -- and I hope to have your support.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

24   Stavisky.

25                SENATOR STAVISKY:   Let me rephrase 


                                                               473

 1   the question, if the sponsor would continue to 

 2   yield.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Does 

 4   the sponsor continue to yield?

 5                SENATOR BALL:   Yes.

 6                SENATOR STAVISKY:   Then the only 

 7   way an 18-year-old graduating can receive a voter 

 8   registration form is if they get a hunting and 

 9   fishing license?  You would not extend it to the 

10   State Education Department under -- in the 

11   purview of this bill?

12                SENATOR BALL:   This legislation is 

13   not restrictive.  This legislation expands upon 

14   current efforts to have greater voter 

15   registration.  To the extent that you want to see 

16   it expanded even to more state agencies or 

17   beyond, then that should be a legislative effort 

18   that you take part in.

19                But this legislation, we've already 

20   gone through some of the agencies, including 

21   Social Services, that currently facilitate voter 

22   registration.  This simply allows a checkoff on a 

23   document to register to vote.

24                SENATOR STAVISKY:   If the sponsor 

25   would --


                                                               474

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 2   Stavisky.

 3                SENATOR STAVISKY:   -- continue to 

 4   yield.

 5                SENATOR BALL:   Sure.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

 7   sponsor yields.  

 8                Senator Stavisky.

 9                SENATOR STAVISKY:   Wouldn't you 

10   agree that one of the largest groups, one of the 

11   largest cohorts of unregistered voters are people 

12   from the age of 18 to 21?

13                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

14   Ball.

15                SENATOR BALL:   I certainly don't 

16   have the numbers before me.  But we have to do 

17   everything we possibly can to engage all elements 

18   of the populace, including the youngest, to 

19   register to vote and engage in the democracy that 

20   some of my friends are fighting and dying for 

21   right now.

22                And to the extent that we do that, 

23   those efforts are well-suited and well-placed.  

24   And this is just one example, not dissimilar to 

25   what has happened in other states that would 


                                                               475

 1   allow those that are applying for these licenses 

 2   the right to register to vote.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 4   Stavisky.

 5                SENATOR STAVISKY:   On a different 

 6   front --

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 8   Stavisky on the bill?

 9                SENATOR STAVISKY:   All right, on 

10   the bill.

11                On the bill, it seems to me that one 

12   of our missions must be to encourage people to 

13   register to vote.  And there are so many areas 

14   where to me the fertile field is not necessarily 

15   in the hunting and fishing license area, but in 

16   areas such as students graduating from high 

17   school, certainly from college.  We ought to 

18   encourage SUNY and CUNY to provide voter 

19   registration applications.  I believe they do for 

20   those students who are enrolled and not 

21   registered to vote.  

22                But there are so many other areas at 

23   the county level.  I know that the Senator is 

24   interested in animal rights.  And when an 

25   individual registers a dog or a cat with the 


                                                               476

 1   county to obtain a license for that animal, they 

 2   too should be given the opportunity to register 

 3   to vote if they are not already doing so.

 4                So I am going to vote no, very 

 5   reluctantly vote no on this bill because of 

 6   everything that has been expressed earlier.  But 

 7   at the same time, we've got to do our best to 

 8   encourage people to register to vote.  So 

 9   unfortunately, I will vote no.  

10                Thank you.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Thank 

12   you, Senator Stavisky.

13                Senator Hoylman.

14                SENATOR HOYLMAN:   Thank you, 

15   Mr. President.  On the bill.  

16                My concern, Mr. President, is that 

17   this bill will be seen by the public as really a 

18   cynical attempt at good government when in fact 

19   it's partisan politics.  We know, Mr. President, 

20   that this bill, from the sponsor's questions -- 

21   and I want to thank him for that discussion that 

22   he's had with my colleagues -- this bill is 

23   directed toward gun owners, pure and simple.  And 

24   gun owners of course represent a certain politic, 

25   partisanship, in our state, and this bill is 


                                                               477

 1   tailored toward their needs.

 2                My concern is that in fact we should 

 3   be looking at the universality of voting.  We 

 4   should be looking at issues like same-day voter 

 5   registration, vote by mail, early voting, 

 6   no-fault absentee voting.  

 7                But in fact this bill is creating an 

 8   "us" and "them."  In fact, it was described as 

 9   people who received social services had the 

10   opportunity to vote, why not people who own guns.  

11   And they do, they just shouldn't have a special 

12   privilege when they apply for a license.  You 

13   might as well call this, Mr. President, the NRA 

14   Voter Assistance Act, because I believe it is 

15   targeted, it is tailored toward a certain 

16   electorate.  And it has the danger of imbuing the 

17   public with the cynicism that I think so many of 

18   us fight within our districts and here in this 

19   chamber.

20                So I'll be voting no, Mr. President.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Thank 

22   you, Senator Hoylman.

23                Senator Rivera.

24                SENATOR RIVERA:   Thank you, 

25   Mr. President.  Through you, if the sponsor would 


                                                               478

 1   yield for a few questions.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Does 

 3   the sponsor yield?  

 4                SENATOR BALL:   Sure.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

 6   sponsor yields.  

 7                Senator Rivera.

 8                SENATOR RIVERA:   Thank you, 

 9   Mr. President.  Through you.  

10                I am not an attorney either.  But 

11   there are a couple of tenderness that have been 

12   thrown around that I think would be important to 

13   clarify.  One of them is "chain of custody."  

14                So through you, Mr. President, I 

15   wanted to know if, in putting together this bill, 

16   whether the idea of chain of custody of that 

17   particular bit of information -- or I shouldn't 

18   say particular bit of information, but the voter 

19   registration information itself, whether there 

20   was some thought given as to the process that 

21   would happen with the chain of custody of that 

22   particular information from the moment that the 

23   individual signs up for voter registration and it 

24   getting to the Board of Elections.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 


                                                               479

 1   Ball.

 2                SENATOR BALL:   So it's the same 

 3   process as now in returning the form.  The form 

 4   will be sent to the DEC, and then the DEC will 

 5   send that form to the State Board of Elections 

 6   that will adhere to all the same standards and 

 7   practices that they do currently.  And not 

 8   dissimilar to the return of forms every day that 

 9   happens in this state probably thousands and 

10   thousands of times.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

12   Rivera.

13                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

14   Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to 

15   yield.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

17   sponsor yields.  

18                Senator Rivera.

19                SENATOR RIVERA:   Thank you, 

20   Mr. President.  I actually want to drill down a 

21   little bit further.  

22                Because under normal 

23   circumstances -- again, through you, 

24   Mr. President -- I would say, for example, when 

25   we're talking about the DMV, we're certainly 


                                                               480

 1   talking about a government employee, so a state 

 2   employee in the case of New York State DMV, who 

 3   not only would be trained in the managing of this 

 4   information, but it would be probably just one 

 5   individual.  Or, if there's various individuals, 

 6   they would be trained in making sure that they 

 7   protect this information.  

 8                Through you, Mr. President, in the 

 9   case of a hypothetical -- as Senator Ball stated 

10   earlier about Dick's Sporting Goods or Walmart, 

11   is there a sense of how many individuals would be 

12   handling this information and whether they -- 

13   let's answer that question first because I have 

14   another follow-up, Mr. President.  But for now, 

15   does the sponsor have any idea how many folks 

16   would be responsible for this information?

17                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

18   Ball.

19                SENATOR BALL:   The same employees 

20   that work with the state every day to handle the 

21   hunting and fishing licenses and are qualified to 

22   do so would be handling these forms.  And 

23   Subdivision 9 states:  "The Board of Elections 

24   will process the application and send appropriate 

25   notice of approval or rejection."  It's not 


                                                               481

 1   dissimilar in any way to what happens currently.

 2                I mean, say that you have voter 

 3   registration forms in a guidance office at a 

 4   local school or you have voter registration 

 5   forms -- I've seen them at many different places, 

 6   including businesses.  And those forms are filled 

 7   out and sent to a state agency.  This process, 

 8   these forms that are now being administered are 

 9   sent to the DEC.  They will continue to be sent 

10   to the DEC.  And the DEC will then send those 

11   forms to the State Board of Elections.

12                You know, these initial 

13   applications -- today, yesterday, months ago -- 

14   voter information forms are filled out in any 

15   number of places currently.  That's not going to 

16   change.  What this will allow is when somebody 

17   applies for that hunting and fishing license, 

18   they'll also be able to register to vote, and 

19   then those forms will be appropriately sent to 

20   the DEC, who will forward them to the State Board 

21   of Elections.  It's a streamlined process, and 

22   there's not an issue with it.

23                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

24   Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to 

25   yield.


                                                               482

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Does 

 2   the sponsor yield?

 3                SENATOR BALL:   Yes.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 5   Rivera.

 6                SENATOR RIVERA:   Thank you, 

 7   Mr. President.  

 8                I certainly don't disagree with the 

 9   sponsor's idea that once it has been sent to the 

10   Department of Environmental Conservation and then 

11   to be handled by the Board of Elections, I don't 

12   doubt that there will be a streamlined process, 

13   as he describes it.  There are thousands of 

14   people that do it probably across our state every 

15   day.  If you go to a post office and pick up a 

16   registration card, as an individual you'd pick it 

17   up and fill it out.

18                But see, this is where the question 

19   really -- we want to dig deeper, through you, 

20   Mr. President.  In the case of an individual 

21   going into a post office, grabbing a voter 

22   registration card and filling it out, it is him 

23   or her that seals it, puts it in the mail, and 

24   then it is out of their hands.  

25                In the case of, say, John Smith 


                                                               483

 1   going to a Walmart in Putnam County and saying "I 

 2   want to register for a fishing license," and then 

 3   if the form is contemporaneous -- so if you have 

 4   the fishing license on the top portion and the 

 5   voting part on the bottom portion, as I believe 

 6   part of the bill would be that that's the way it 

 7   would be organized, then before the DEC gets 

 8   that, there would be an employee who is a private 

 9   employee, not a government employee, but a 

10   private employee who is a Walmart employee, for 

11   example, in this hypothetical, who would be 

12   responsible for receiving that information and 

13   then responsible for processing that information 

14   before it gets to the Department of Environmental 

15   Conservation.

16                So my question, through you, 

17   Mr. President, to the sponsor is have we thought 

18   about before it gets to the DEC, of the 

19   individuals that might be handling it before and 

20   the issues of chains of custody or chain of 

21   custody at that level?

22                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

23   Ball.

24                SENATOR BALL:   So right now these 

25   forms are being filled out and sent into the DEC.  


                                                               484

 1   Anything that's done illegally, whether it be a 

 2   year ago, today, or a year from now, if this 

 3   legislation were to pass --

 4                SENATOR RIVERA:   Mr. President, I 

 5   can't hear the sponsor, I apologize.

 6                SENATOR BALL:   So it would be dealt 

 7   with the same way it is now.  And right now these 

 8   forms are being sent to the DEC.  And the changes 

 9   that the DEC -- which will be, according to this 

10   legislation, instructed and trained and informed, 

11   thank you, by the State Board of Elections, they 

12   will then send those forms over to the State 

13   Board of Elections.

14                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

15   Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to 

16   yield.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Does 

18   the sponsor yield?

19                SENATOR BALL:   Yes.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

21   Rivera.

22                SENATOR RIVERA:   Mr. President, I 

23   still find myself -- first of all, I'm finding it 

24   difficult to hear myself, that's one thing.  As 

25   Senator Libous says --


                                                               485

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Can we 

 2   have some order in the chamber, just keep 

 3   conversations to a minimum.  Thank you.  

 4                Senator Rivera.

 5                SENATOR RIVERA:   I find myself, 

 6   Mr. President, quoting Senator Libous, who 

 7   sometimes can't hear himself.  Now I couldn't 

 8   hear myself.

 9                But I continue to be confused, 

10   because if we're talking -- we have no 

11   disagreement that once it gets to the DEC, it 

12   will be processed in the same way that these are 

13   processed now.  But if we're talking about the 

14   process by which John Smith, walking into a 

15   Walmart and signing up for a fishing license, 

16   that individual who we're talking to, let's say 

17   it's Jane Smith -- not his sister or his cousin, 

18   but another Smith -- Jane Smith is actually 

19   taking the thing in hand, and they're responsible 

20   for it at that level to a different level of 

21   responsibility, it seems to me, than just a 

22   fishing license.  

23                We're talking about other types of 

24   sensitive information that would be on there.  

25   And that individual, who is an employee of a 


                                                               486

 1   private business, has not been trained in any way 

 2   to handle that information, does not know how -- 

 3   now they're responsible for doing that, for 

 4   carrying this information.  

 5                So my question still remains for the 

 6   sponsor -- through you, Mr. President -- has 

 7   there been any thought to that process when we're 

 8   talking about an individual in a private business 

 9   and the responsibility that now they're going to 

10   have, which will be compounded, to borrow my 

11   colleague's phrase, as an unfunded mandate on 

12   this business, to be responsible for this 

13   information which under normal circumstances we 

14   would have with trained individuals as at the DEC 

15   or the department -- I'm sorry, the voter -- 

16   voter -- help me out here.  The voter department.  

17   Why am I blanking out on something as simple -- 

18   thank you, the Board of Elections.  Sometimes, 

19   see, when I can't hear myself, sometimes my brain 

20   kind of disconnects.

21                So to finish that question again, it 

22   is very different from saying--

23                SENATOR LIBOUS:   Is the Senator 

24   talking to himself?

25                (Laughter.)


                                                               487

 1                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

 2   Mr. President, it seems at times that I am.  At 

 3   this particular moment, through you, 

 4   Mr. President, I will finish the question, again, 

 5   just stating it clearly.  

 6                A Board of Elections employee or a 

 7   DEC employee is trained to handle this 

 8   information.  My question to the sponsor is, has 

 9   there been thought put to the individual who is a 

10   private citizen working for a private business 

11   and is now responsible for this information?

12                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

13   Ball.

14                SENATOR BALL:   So this -- I think 

15   now for probably like the twelfth time, this does 

16   not change the process right now.  

17                These employees are handling state 

18   documents in the sense of these hunting and 

19   fishing licenses.  These individuals will take 

20   that document that they currently send to the 

21   DEC, and they will take that document and they 

22   will send it to the DEC.  These are the same 

23   people right now that are handling these hunting 

24   and fishing licenses.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 


                                                               488

 1   Rivera.

 2                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

 3   Mr. President, I have one more question.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Does 

 5   the sponsor yield?

 6                SENATOR BALL:   Yes.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

 8   sponsor yields.

 9                Senator Rivera.

10                SENATOR RIVERA:   Thank you, 

11   Mr. President.  On page 2, line 31, which is 

12   Section 4, subsection F, there's a reference to a 

13   helpline.  Through you, Mr. President.  And so I 

14   wanted to -- it's obvious that it would be 

15   necessary, according to what the bill language 

16   states, just in case there are questions, there 

17   will be a helpline established.  

18                My question is, would there be a 

19   fiscal impact for the creation of this helpline 

20   at the Board of Elections, that agency that I 

21   didn't remember earlier?  Would there be a cost 

22   attached to that?

23                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

24   Ball.

25                SENATOR BALL:   Can you just repeat 


                                                               489

 1   that question in 10 seconds or less?  

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 3   Rivera.

 4                SENATOR RIVERA:   Absolutely, 

 5   Mr. President.

 6                On page 2, line 31 there is a 

 7   reference -- through you, Mr. President -- to a 

 8   helpline that voters could call if they have 

 9   questions about the bill or -- I think that 

10   there's just a reference to a helpline at the 

11   Board of Elections.  

12                So my question is, is there -- 

13   because I do not believe that such a helpline 

14   exists currently.  So if it does not, then is 

15   there a fiscal impact tied to the creation of 

16   that helpline?  And what would be that fiscal 

17   impact?  

18                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

19   Ball.

20                SENATOR BALL:   So before the debate 

21   goes on too much longer, I think what we'll do is 

22   we're going to lay the bill aside in a little 

23   bit.  

24                But that 1-800 number is currently 

25   functioning, so there's no additional cost.  And 


                                                               490

 1   they routinely take calls all day long.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Thank 

 3   you.  

 4                Senator Rivera.

 5                SENATOR RIVERA:   Mr. President, 

 6   very briefly on the bill.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 8   Rivera on the bill.

 9                SENATOR RIVERA:   I want to thank 

10   the sponsor for answering some of the questions.  

11                Again, I think that concerns have 

12   been brought up by a couple of my colleagues.  

13   There are issues of unfunded mandates on private 

14   businesses, there's issues of chain of custody 

15   that I do not believe have been thought through.  

16                I think that the idea of getting as 

17   many people registered to vote is absolutely a 

18   positive and should be encouraged.  And we want 

19   to make sure that every citizen in the State of 

20   New York gets the opportunity to participate in 

21   the political process.  Unfortunately, I believe 

22   that this is not the best way to be able to get 

23   to do that.  So I will be voting in the negative.

24                Thank you, Mr. President.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Thank 


                                                               491

 1   you, Senator Rivera.

 2                Are there other members wishing to 

 3   be heard? 

 4                (No response.)

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Senator 

 6   Ball.

 7                SENATOR BALL:   I'd like to lay the 

 8   bill aside for the day.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

10   bill is laid aside for the day.

11                Senator Libous.

12                SENATOR LIBOUS:   Thank you, 

13   Mr. President.  Is there any further business at 

14   the desk?

15                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   There 

16   is no further business at the desk.

17                SENATOR LIBOUS:   All right, at this 

18   time, Mr. President -- this is very important.  

19   Members will want to hear this.  At this time the 

20   Senate is going to stand at ease.  We're not 

21   going to adjourn quite yet.  But members may do 

22   what is important to them in their lives, and 

23   they will not have to come back to the chamber.  

24   I figured that would be important to all of you.  

25                So the Senate will stand at ease at 


                                                               492

 1   this time.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

 3   Senate will stand at ease.

 4                (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease 

 5   at 12:52 p.m.)

 6                (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at 

 7   1:15 p.m.)

 8                SENATOR LIBOUS:   Mr. President.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   The 

10   Senate will come to order.

11                Senator Libous.  

12                SENATOR LIBOUS:   At this time could 

13   you accept a hand-up from the IDC, please.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   To be 

15   filed in the Journal.

16                SENATOR LIBOUS:   And, 

17   Mr. President, at this time we have two hand-ups 

18   we'd like to bring before the desk.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   Also to 

20   be filed in the Journal.

21                SENATOR LIBOUS:   Mr. President, is 

22   there any further business at the desk?  

23                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   There 

24   is no further business at the desk.

25                SENATOR LIBOUS:   Mr. President, 


                                                               493

 1   there being no further business at the desk, I 

 2   move that the Senate adjourn until Monday, 

 3   March 3rd, at 3:00 p.m., intervening days being 

 4   legislative days.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT CARLUCCI:   On 

 6   motion, the Senate stands adjourned until Monday, 

 7   March 3rd, at 3:00 p.m., intervening days being 

 8   legislative days.

 9                (Whereupon, at 1:17 p.m., the Senate 

10   adjourned.)

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