Joint Legislative Public Hearing on 2018-2019 Executive Budget Proposal: Topic Higher Education - Testimonies

12 Senator Catharine M. Young
Chair, Senate Finance Committee
13
Assemblywoman Helene Weinstein
14 Chair, Assembly Ways & Means Committee

15 PRESENT:

16 Senator Liz Krueger
Senate Finance Committee (RM)
17
Assemblyman Robert Oaks
18 Assembly Ways & Means Committee (RM)

19 Senator Diane Savino
Vice Chair, Senate Finance Committee
20
Assemblywoman Deborah J. Glick
21 Chair, Assembly Higher Education Committee

22 Senator Kenneth P. LaValle
Chair, Senate Higher Education Committee
23
Senator Toby Ann Stavisky
24

1 2018-2019 Executive Budget
Higher Education
2 1-23-18

3 PRESENT: (Continued)

4 Assemblyman Marc Butler

5 Assemblywoman Jo Anne Simon

6 Assemblyman John T. McDonald III

7 Assemblyman Jeffrion L. Aubry

8 Assemblywoman Earlene Hooper

9 Senator Susan Serino

10 Assemblywoman Barbara S. Lifton

11 Assemblywoman Patricia Fahy

12 Assemblywoman Rebecca Seawright

13 Assemblyman Al Stirpe

14 Senator Marisol Alcantara

15 Assemblywoman Catherine T. Nolan

16 Assemblyman Michael J. Cusick

17 Senator James N. Tedisco

18 Assemblywoman Alicia Hyndman

19 Senator Kathleen A. Marchione

20 Assemblyman David G. McDonough

21 Senator Kevin Parker

22 Assemblyman Félix W. Ortiz

23 Assemblywoman Rodneyse Bichotte

24 Senator Jamaal Bailey

1 2018-2019 Executive Budget
Higher Education
2 1-23-18

3 PRESENT: (Continued)

4 Assemblyman Victor M. Pichardo

5 Assemblyman William Colton

6

7 LIST OF SPEAKERS

8 STATEMENT QUESTIONS

9 Kristina M. Johnson
Chancellor 9 20
10
James Milliken
11 Chancellor
City University of New York 128 144
12
MaryEllen Elia
13 Commissioner
NYS Education Department 191 202
14
Elsa M. Magee
15 Executive Vice President
NYS Higher Education
16 Services Corporation 234 239

17 Andrew Pallotta
Executive Vice President
18 NYSUT
-and-
19 Frederick Kowal
President
20 United University Professions
-and-
21 Barbara Bowen
President
22 PSC/CUNY 259 274

23

1 2018-2019 Executive Budget
Higher Education
2 1-23-18

3 LIST OF SPEAKERS, Cont.

4 STATEMENT QUESTIONS

5 Mary Beth Labate
President
6 Commission on Independent
Colleges and Universities
7 (CICU) 300 309

8 Smitha Varghese
Board Chair
9 Conner Wolf
Legislative Policy Assoc.
10 Blair Horner
Executive Director
11 NYPIRG 344 352

12 Donna Stelling-Gurnett
President and CEO
13 Association of Proprietary
Colleges (APC) 357 362
14
Samuel Rowser
15 Executive Director
Kevin Marken
16 Utica Director
On Point for College 364
17
Marc J. Cohen
18 President
Austin Ostro
19 Chief of Staff
SUNY Student Assembly 369 378
20
Francesca Royal
21 Vice Chair, Fiscal Affairs
Jasper Diaz
22 Delegate
Wali Ullah
23 Delegate
CUNY University Student
24 Senate (CUNY USS) 387 402

1 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Good morning.

2 Today we begin the first in a series

3 of hearings conducted by the joint fiscal

4 committees of the Legislature regarding the

5 Governor's proposed budget for fiscal year

6 2018-2019. The hearings are conducted

7 pursuant to Article 7, Section 3 of the

8 Constitution, and Article 2, Sections 31 and

9 32A of the Legislative Law.

10 Today the Assembly Ways and Means

11 Committee and the Senate Finance Committee

12 will hear testimony concerning the Governor's

13 budget proposal for higher education.

14 I am Helene Weinstein, the chair of

15 the Assembly Ways and Means Committee. I

16 will introduce the members from the Assembly,

17 and Senator Young, chair of the Senate

18 Finance Committee, will introduce members

19 from the Senate.

20 Before introducing our first witness,

21 I'd like to remind all the witnesses

22 testifying today to keep your statement

23 within the allotted time limit so that

24 everyone can be afforded the opportunity to

1 speak.

2 Witnesses are respectfully reminded

3 that the testimony which had been submitted

4 in writing will be made part of the record of

5 the hearing, so there's no reason to read

6 your testimony verbatim. In fact, experience

7 has shown that the best presentations to the

8 committees are the ones that provide a

9 concise statement of the highlights of the

10 testimony. This will allow members'

11 questions to be more focused and productive.

12 The witnesses are also reminded that

13 their remarks should be limited to the time

14 remaining on the countdown clocks here in the

15 hearing room. It's very important in order

16 to afford all of the many people here today

17 seeking to testify an appropriate

18 opportunity.

19 Likewise, members' questions will be

20 limited by the countdown clock, and we ask

21 that members keep an eye on that clock. I

22 would like to thank everybody in advance for

23 adhering to these guidelines.

24 And before I call our first witness,

1 I'd like to acknowledge the Assemblymembers

2 who are here. Assemblymember Deborah Glick,

3 the chair of our Higher Education Committee;

4 Assemblywoman Hooper, our deputy speaker;

5 Assemblywoman Lipton; Assemblywoman

6 Seawright; Assemblywoman Nolan -- the women

7 are able to get up early today -- Assemblyman

8 Cusick, at the end; Assemblyman Aubry;

9 Assemblyman McDonald, Assemblywoman Hyndman;

10 and Assemblyman Stirpe.

11 I'd like to introduce Assemblyman Bob

12 Oaks, our ranking member of Ways and Mains,

13 to introduce the Republican members.

14 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: At this point it's

15 Dave McDonough, who is with us as well.

16 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: So now I'd like

17 to turn the mic over to Senator Young for

18 some opening remarks and to introduce the

19 members of the Senate.

20 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you very

21 much, Chairman -- or Chairwoman, I should

22 say, Weinstein.

23 And first of all I'd like to welcome

24 you. This is your first hearing in your new

1 role, and I think it's fantastic --

2 (Applause.)

3 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: I'd also like to

4 welcome everyone who is here today. And they

5 like to say that the holidays are the most

6 wonderful time of the year. Actually, in

7 New York State, budget time is the most

8 wonderful time of the year, right?

9 (Laughter.)

10 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: And we're kicking

11 it off today.

12 And so I look forward to the

13 testimony. We have many, many distinguished

14 people who are here to give input on the

15 Governor's budget proposal.

16 And I would also like to point out

17 that I'm joined by my colleagues Senator Liz

18 Krueger, who is ranking member on the Senate

19 Finance Committee, and also Senator Toby

20 Stavisky, who is ranking member on the Higher

21 Education Committee.

22 So welcome, and we look forward to the

23 testimony.

24 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: So our first

1 witness is Kristina Johnson, chancellor of

2 the State University of New York.

3 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Thank you very

4 much. It's a pleasure to be here. I am

5 Dr. Kristina Johnson, the 13th chancellor of

6 the State University of New York. And the

7 focus of my remarks will be about the budget

8 with regard to three areas: Stabilization,

9 health and safety, and restoration.

10 I want to thank Chairpersons Young,

11 Weinstein, LaValle, and Glick, members of the

12 Senate and Assembly, and legislative staff

13 for allowing me this opportunity to share our

14 perspective on the Executive Budget.

15 I also want to acknowledge and thank

16 Chairman Carl McCall, who is here today, and

17 the entire SUNY Board of Trustees for their

18 leadership and support.

19 I know that you are aware that SUNY is

20 the largest comprehensive system of

21 postsecondary education in the nation, with

22 64 unique colleges and universities. And you

23 know that we serve nearly 1.3 million

24 students, and that we stretch from New York

1 City and Long Island up to the North Country

2 and from the Hudson Valley to Buffalo and

3 Jamestown. A SUNY institution is located

4 within 30 miles of almost every single

5 citizen in the State of New York.

6 SUNY awards a third of all higher

7 education degrees in the state, and

8 two-thirds of all public degrees conferred in

9 the state. And after four years, 73 percent

10 of those graduates still work and live in the

11 State of New York. So our mission is crucial

12 to the success and future of the state.

13 Our research and discovery results in

14 about a billion dollars of externally funded,

15 sponsored activity each year. That means we

16 have an enormous social and economic return

17 on that investment. In fact, a 2011 RIG

18 study mentioned that for every $1 that's

19 invested in SUNY, there's a return on

20 investment of about $5.

21 When I came to New York, I was

22 pleasantly surprised to learn how much state

23 support SUNY receives, thanks to both the

24 Governor and the Legislature. In fact,

1 according to a recently released State Higher

2 Education Finance Report, New York State is

3 among the most generous states in recent

4 years, with year-to-year funding to higher

5 education in New York exceeding the national

6 average.

7 We're extremely grateful for these

8 investments and what they mean to the system,

9 such as the continued maintenance of effort

10 and predictable tuition program at our

11 state-operated campuses, as well as essential

12 indirect support for benefits and capital

13 improvement costs included in the Executive

14 Budget. This support creates a solid

15 foundation from which SUNY has grown and

16 served the State of New York. And building

17 on this foundation, the Executive Budget

18 includes proposals to increase access to

19 higher education for students through the

20 DREAM Act, provides further protections for

21 students with loan debt, and continues the

22 expansion of the Excelsior Scholarship

23 Program.

24 And speaking of the Excelsior

1 Scholarship Program, I would be remiss if I

2 did not thank Governor Cuomo and the

3 Legislature for this first-of-a-kind free

4 tuition program for students attending SUNY

5 and CUNY. Less than a year after its

6 inception, 23,000 students at SUNY and CUNY

7 are recipients of the Excelsior Scholarship.

8 And together, the Excelsior Scholarship

9 Program, the Tuition Assistance Program, and

10 other state-supported scholarships enable

11 50 percent of full-time students to attend

12 college tuition-free.

13 To continue this growth and build on

14 this investment, we intend to speak to you

15 today on three areas of concern that pose a

16 potential threat to SUNY's success. Despite

17 the challenging economic environment and

18 fiscal constraints facing New York, it is

19 important that we identify and confront any

20 barriers to SUNY and the State of New York's

21 future success. Today we are categorizing

22 these areas under stabilization, health and

23 safety, and restoration.

24 Stabilization with regard to the

1 community colleges. The community colleges'

2 funding model right now is a volume-based

3 model. And what I mean by that, it's flat

4 funding per FTE. However, at many of our

5 community colleges, such as Onondaga, the FTE

6 might be 7500, but the total number of

7 students coming through the doors is almost

8 double that. And those students require the

9 same kind of services that everyone would

10 require, and those are fixed costs.

11 So what we're asking is to consider,

12 as we go forward, to revise that funding

13 mechanism. Last year, SUNY convened a

14 working group to explore national best

15 practices for funding community colleges and

16 to redesign the funding formula to provide

17 stable support from the state. Based on the

18 newly released Executive Budget, the proposed

19 formula that was included in our 2018-2019

20 budget request adopted by the SUNY Board of

21 Trustees would cost the community colleges an

22 additional $24 million.

23 We realize that this one-year

24 implementation is an extremely heavy lift in

1 a difficult year, but the importance of the

2 request to look at state funding for SUNY

3 community colleges cannot be overstated. If

4 our community colleges are meant to continue

5 to be the innovative producers of the

6 educated workforce that the State of New York

7 needs, stability, predictability, and

8 investment should be on the forefront of our

9 efforts.

10 To that end, we look forward to

11 working with you to explore this issue in

12 pursuit of the direct state tax support and

13 legislative changes needed for our community

14 colleges to evolve their operations for new

15 realities.

16 With regard to our state-operated

17 campuses, we also ask you to consider

18 implementing legislative changes that would

19 enable state-operated campuses to increase

20 operational efficiencies, capture new

21 revenue, and lessen the impact of increasing

22 costs. Allowing, for example, consortium

23 purchasing of services and limited

24 differential tuition rates would help meet

1 these goals. And with your support, we can

2 achieve those efficiencies and relieve the

3 strain on our operations.

4 With regard to health and safety,

5 SUNY’s Academic Health Centers, including

6 hospitals at Upstate Medical University,

7 Downstate Medical Center, and Stony Brook

8 University, treat approximately 1.3 million

9 patients annually and educate approximately

10 12,500 students for health, medical, and

11 biomedical careers, all while operating under

12 a continually changing healthcare landscape.

13 We are currently working with the

14 Division of Budget to mitigate the

15 operational impact of the proposed

16 redirection of direct state tax support to

17 state-supported bonded capital, to

18 accommodate changes anticipated at the

19 federal level. We look forward to working

20 with both the Legislature and the Executive

21 to identify additional options to address

22 funding shortfalls for all our hospitals.

23 In the meantime, in recognition of

24 these challenges, I would ask that these

1 institutions be given the opportunity to

2 operate with the flexibility that businesses

3 require to be successful. The first step on

4 this path is to address the application of

5 the 2 percent operating rule metric to their

6 operations. These three safety net

7 hospitals, that also are the research and

8 development economic engines in our

9 communities, treat the state's most

10 vulnerable populations and produce research

11 of the highest quality. Our operations in

12 this area should be treated similarly to

13 health and hospital-related activities

14 elsewhere in the state budget.

15 The second part of health and safety

16 is the safety of our students, faculty and

17 staff that work in our facilities. SUNY's

18 state-operated campuses account for

19 40 percent of all state-owned buildings, and

20 75 percent of the footprint of the

21 state-owned real estate.

22 We have an aging infrastructure.

23 Thirty-five percent of SUNY's academic

24 facilities at state-owned campuses are more

1 than 50 years old. The Executive Budget's

2 investment of $350 million is appreciated,

3 and we look forward to working with you to

4 find additional avenues to address the

5 growing concern of critical maintenance for

6 our building stock.

7 State-operated campuses face a growing

8 backlog of critical maintenance projects that

9 are needed to ensure the health and safety of

10 our students, faculty, and staff. They also

11 provide opportunities to retrofit these

12 facilities, thereby relieving the operating

13 budget by saving energy on an annual basis.

14 Mental health tele-counseling. Mental

15 health and well-being is an increasingly

16 critical issue in higher education.

17 Nationally, one in three college students

18 suffers from mental health issues. Last

19 year, thanks to the advocacy of the SUNY

20 Student Assembly and your support, $300,000

21 was allocated to provide access to expert

22 mental health care to SUNY students. The

23 SUNY Student Tele-Counseling Network pilot

24 program provides counseling services through

1 telehealth to students has been launched on

2 four campuses. Restoring this funding will

3 ensure the continuation of these necessary

4 services.

5 The last is restoration. With our

6 opportunity programs, the proposed funding

7 level for the Educational Opportunity Program

8 would mean 765 fewer students would be

9 admitted to SUNY's program in the fall of

10 2018, and direct aid awarded to students in

11 the program would decrease by $500 per

12 student.

13 We have many other programs that we

14 would also like to see restored, and in the

15 interests of time, I can talk about those

16 during the Q&A. But I want to make sure that

17 I leave time for the last point, which is

18 legislative changes.

19 The SUNY Board of Trustees and I of

20 course are happy to see New York's version of

21 the DREAM Act and are supportive of its

22 inclusion in the final enacted budget. We're

23 also supportive of the student loan

24 provisions and believe they will expand upon

1 our initiatives to inform students and

2 families on loan debt. We applaud the

3 Governor for addressing this issue.

4 In terms of proposals for expansion of

5 the Inspector General’s purveyance, or the

6 establishment of a new chief procurement

7 officer, we look forward to continued

8 discussions on the need for such actions.

9 And the SUNY Board of Trustees has taken

10 steps to address our procurement actions, as

11 well as our foundations and affiliates.

12 Lastly, I'd like to express our hope

13 that several of our proposed legislative

14 changes will be included in the enacted

15 budget. These include items such as land

16 lease legislation for a Ronald McDonald House

17 to be built at Stony Brook University and a

18 new escrow account to facilitate an

19 affiliation between Eastern Long Island

20 Hospital and Stony Brook University Hospital.

21 We stand ready to provide additional

22 information on any of these items.

23 It is a privilege to come before you

24 on behalf of the State University of

1 New York, and I look forward to meeting and

2 working with you all during the upcoming

3 legislative session. My colleagues and I are

4 here and happy to address any questions you

5 might have. Thank you very much.

6 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Senator Young.

7 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Yes. We're very

8 pleased that we've been joined by

9 Senator Diane Savino, who is vice chair of

10 the Senate Finance Committee, and also

11 Chairman Ken LaValle, who is chair of the

12 Higher Education Committee in the Senate.

13 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: In the Assembly

14 we've been joined by Assemblywoman Fahy and

15 Assemblywoman Bichotte.

16 I'd like to turn to our chair, Deborah

17 Glick, for some initial questioning.

18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Thank you very

19 much, Madam Chair.

20 Thank you very much, Chancellor.

21 Welcome to your first round of budget

22 hearings.

23 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Thank you.

24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: We're very

1 pleased to have you with us today and to have

2 you at the helm.

3 On the Excelsior Scholarship, we're

4 wondering how that's impacted SUNY and if you

5 could, if you don't have that information

6 now, we would very much like to have an

7 understanding of how many students came to

8 SUNY as a result, the raw number, which

9 campuses had the most increases, and we'd

10 like to understand how these students have

11 been absorbed into classes. Have class sizes

12 increased? Have you had to provide

13 additional course sections and dorms and

14 other campus services, whether it's the

15 health services or recreational facilities?

16 So if you have some idea now of how

17 Excelsior has impacted SUNY in general, we'd

18 like to hear that.

19 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Thank you very

20 much for that question.

21 So as you know, the Excelsior program

22 was established after the applications were

23 submitted and then accepted last year.

24 Having said that, as I mentioned earlier,

1 23,000 students, both at SUNY and CUNY, are

2 receiving Excelsior awards. We do know this

3 year and issued a press release that

4 applications are up -- about what, 8 percent?

5 SR. VICE CHANCELLOR MEGNA: (Nodding.)

6 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: So we are

7 expecting that we may see increases this

8 year, which would be very well received.

9 I'm going to turn that over to my

10 colleague Eileen McLoughlin, who's our CFO,

11 to give some of the specifics, and we're also

12 happy to provide more details.

13 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: So we certainly

14 will provide more details as we continue to

15 analyze the data.

16 But in direct answer to your question

17 on issues of class size and capacity, before

18 the Excelsior program was initiated, SUNY had

19 looked at its capacity and we felt that we

20 could absorb a 10 percent increase -- at a

21 minimum increase of students at our

22 state-operated campuses, and a lot more in

23 our community colleges. So at this point we

24 are not concerned about capacity, but we

1 continue to monitor class size, monitor the

2 number of faculty we have to make advising

3 services we have available.

4 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: How much did you

5 say applications were up?

6 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: For the

7 state-operated campuses they went up -- for

8 all of them, they went up 8 percent. But

9 I'll give you the breakdown between -- we'll

10 provide you with the breakdown between

11 state-operated and community colleges.

12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Thank you.

13 I appreciate your concern about the

14 funding for community colleges. Those have

15 been -- it's been a model that has been in

16 place for a very long time. That there have

17 been various counties that, struggling under

18 a 2 percent cap, have expressed their concern

19 about their ability to provide their share.

20 And so I'm wondering whether there are

21 specific campuses that are affected by a

22 decrease in enrollment which is affecting

23 their bottom line. Are there -- and how many

24 are there?

1 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Sure. There are

2 -- 27 of the 30 community colleges will be

3 receiving less funding this year than last

4 year under the current budget.

5 And just to give an example, two

6 colleges that I know of, I mentioned

7 Onondaga, where roughly the number of

8 students to the FTE ratio is about two to

9 one. So funding is based on FTE, but they

10 have twice as many students. So the same

11 services have to be provided across double

12 the number of students.

13 At Monroe Community College, we have

14 about 4500 students different, between the

15 FTE and the number of students attending. So

16 it's about 9,000 students -- 9,000 FTE and

17 about 13,000 students attending. So you can

18 see that just in those two examples there's a

19 tremendous number of additional students

20 relative to what the funding model is based

21 on.

22 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Has there been

23 any review of why there has been a

24 decrease -- I mean, you don't think that

1 there's a decrease in enrollment, you think

2 that the issue is actually that there are

3 students who -- a large number of part-time

4 students. Is that what the analysis shows?

5 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: I think that

6 there are -- certainly the enrollments are

7 going down in the community colleges, because

8 many of our community colleges are upstate

9 and the enrollment in the population is

10 decreasing in terms of college-age students.

11 So I think my point I was trying to

12 make is yes, the -- when the enrollments go

13 down, the funding goes down if it's based on

14 FTE. But the number of students that are

15 attending is larger than the base of the --

16 so the FTEs go down that we count. And an

17 FTE, a full-time-equivalent, means that they

18 need to be taking at least, what, six -- like

19 15 credits? So you might have five students

20 taking six credits, and that would be two

21 FTE, but you need to provide the students

22 with registration and advising and the

23 classrooms and other activities that all the

24 students can avail of if they are a student

1 that's registered for a class. So that's

2 what I mean.

3 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Have you seen

4 students move from community colleges to

5 four-year colleges because now their families

6 can see them affording a four-year school

7 with an Excelsior Scholarship?

8 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Yes.

9 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: And also just --

10 if you don't mind, in addition, you know,

11 community colleges are more and more serving

12 that adult population, so that the trend for

13 these upstate community colleges will be to

14 have more of that part-time student. So

15 that's another reason why we felt it was time

16 to study that formula.

17 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: I guess just to

18 then clarify, the fixed costs stay the same

19 even if the enrollment goes down. So it's

20 basically a total-volume-based model. But

21 you have fixed costs and then on top of that

22 you have a very -- just to be clear.

23 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Right. On the

24 SUNY hospitals, I know that you referenced

1 your discussions are continuing with the

2 Division of Budget, the fourth branch of

3 government. But what have the hospitals been

4 saying to you about a shift from operating

5 support to capital?

6 There's no question, I'm sure, that

7 again those facilities also need upgrades and

8 so forth. But at a time when there is this

9 rather cataclysmic change in the way in which

10 we are funding or not funding healthcare, how

11 is it possible for those hospitals that are

12 so critical in their areas to actually absorb

13 what is essentially an elimination of

14 operating aid?

15 We have over time seen a decrease, and

16 both the Senate and Assembly have repeatedly

17 restored those cuts. But this is an

18 elimination. And what do you foresee would

19 be the effect if in fact we are not able to

20 restore that operating aid?

21 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Well -- and as

22 you mentioned, we are working to restore the

23 operating piece. At some point you run out

24 of the capital that you can actually put to

1 work. And so I think that's where we are

2 concerned, is given the decrease from the

3 federal side as well with the disproportional

4 hospital payments, as well as the operating,

5 it would be very difficult, very challenging

6 for the hospitals to continue to operate.

7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: On the

8 Excelsior, the students who were receiving

9 aid for TAP were under 80,000. That was the

10 top award. Or family income, I should say.

11 Now that it has jumped to -- and this

12 year will jump up to 110, is SUNY seeing a

13 change in its demographics? Are we seeing a

14 shift in who will be going to SUNY and who we

15 will be serving?

16 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: I think it's a

17 very good question. I'd like to get back to

18 you on that. I'd have to look at some of the

19 details. I don't know -- I mean, if you have

20 any --

21 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: I think we need

22 to get back to you. It is a good question.

23 We have to do that analysis.

24 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: I think that

1 makes sense, especially -- we're focusing on

2 enrollment just because of the -- it drives

3 everything that we do. So we'll get back to

4 you on those details.

5 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Yeah, I think if

6 there is an 8 percent increase in

7 applications, that would be a place to look

8 at who -- what is the application base and

9 how has that changed over the last number of

10 years. And I appreciate you getting back to

11 us.

12 I am now out of time; I may come back

13 for some additional questions after everyone

14 else. Thank you.

15 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

16 Senator Young?

17 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you,

18 Assemblywoman.

19 So we've been joined by Senator Sue

20 Serino. Welcome.

21 SENATOR SERINO: Good morning.

22 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Chancellor, I've

23 got a few questions. And again,

24 congratulations on your new role. And we had

1 the opportunity to meet a few months ago.

2 And so SUNY is extraordinarily important to

3 the state's economic engine and the fact that

4 they provide so many wonderful opportunities,

5 certainly very important in my district.

6 I did want to start -- and there's

7 been a little bit of discussion about your

8 new model for community colleges, which I'm

9 very happy to hear that you're looking to

10 stabilize the community colleges, because

11 they need that kind of help. The question I

12 have is, are you basically talking about

13 block granting? And how would that work, if

14 you are, and who makes the decision about how

15 funds are distributed?

16 You reference several, for example,

17 community colleges, very important ones in

18 urban areas. But I'm concerned about the

19 rural areas also.

20 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Sure.

21 Understood. I'll respond to that and then

22 see if Eileen wants to further make some

23 comments.

24 What we're asking for is to have a

1 similar funding model as at the

2 state-operated campuses so that we maintain

3 the support to the community colleges, like

4 the maintenance -- that they're part of the

5 maintenance of effort that we sustain like we

6 do at the state-operated campuses.

7 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So how would it

8 work?

9 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: So I think, you

10 know, we're looking for predictability. So

11 we would set a base for each college that was

12 at the current year, our 2017-2018 base.

13 That would allow us to have a predictability

14 in our planning and be able to continue to

15 invest in those high-need, high-cost programs

16 like nursing and engineering, which is where

17 the greatest demand is. So that would be the

18 focus of the formula.

19 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: But how would the

20 formula work or -- I'm really not clear as to

21 how you would determine what the funding

22 levels would be.

23 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: I didn't quite

24 hear you; there's a noise out there. So --

1 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Maybe somebody

2 could close that door.

3 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: I think we would

4 keep the funding level the same for each

5 campus as it currently resides -- or is. And

6 then where there's need for investments on

7 those high-need programs, we'd target those.

8 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So you referenced

9 things like nursing, which we have nursing

10 programs --

11 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: Right.

12 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay, thank you for

13 that.

14 I know that the Governor actually has

15 proposed to centralize SUNY community college

16 workforce development programs, and those

17 have been very instrumental. I know that

18 across the state the workforce development is

19 a huge issue. And I know that those programs

20 have worked in conjunction with local

21 employers to make sure that we had a highly

22 qualified, highly skilled workforce.

23 So maybe you could discuss a little

24 bit are there any improvements that could be

1 made to the contract courses, SUNY apprentice

2 and job linkage programs at SUNY's community

3 colleges? Because the concern is if you're

4 centralizing them, turning them over to the

5 Regional Economic Development Council

6 control, actually are there things in the

7 works to enhance those programs or not?

8 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: I think the -- I

9 don't know if centralizing the workforce

10 development programs would necessarily be

11 hurtful. I would think that SUNY would be

12 participating in those decisions as those

13 awards are made.

14 We have done some of that at SUNY

15 ourselves, in which we've taken that money

16 and used a competitive process to determine

17 where the best investment would be.

18 So I think -- I see this as really

19 just working with the regional councils,

20 which many of our presidents also serve on

21 those councils, to really make the right

22 decisions.

23 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: I think six of

24 the 10 regional councils are cochaired by our

1 presidents in their communities.

2 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So you don't

3 foresee any enhancements, it's just a shared

4 responsibility of how the funds are disbursed

5 now under the Governor's model?

6 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: I think there's

7 an opportunity for enhancements, sharing it.

8 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

9 Another question I had has to do with

10 collectively bargained salary increases. So

11 although collectively bargained salary

12 increases will cost the system additional

13 money this year, the Governor does not

14 include any funding for that. I'm not sure

15 exactly what the amount is. I think it's

16 around $94 million, if that's correct.

17 But how will these increases be paid

18 for if there's no funding included in the

19 budget? Because I know you talk about the

20 investment in education, and the Legislature

21 strongly believes in that, and we have

22 stepped up. But I also know that all the

23 SUNY campuses are under fiscal stress right

24 now, and lack of resources, and oftentimes

1 those costs are just passed along to the

2 students.

3 So I'm just curious because it really

4 stood out that there wasn't any funding that

5 was outlined in the budget.

6 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Thank you very

7 much for that question.

8 We're working right now with the

9 presidents of the individual campuses and

10 also across SUNY to find synergies and

11 efficiencies in order to respond to the

12 difficult economic climate that we have in

13 the State of New York and with this

14 particular budget.

15 I also would note that we don't have

16 yet a contract, and so therefore we don't

17 have exactly what is going to be the impact.

18 So I think until we have that contract, we

19 won't know what the impact is going to be.

20 But we are anticipating that this is a

21 difficult economic climate and we're trying

22 to be as efficient as we can with our

23 resources in order to serve the state.

24 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: You talk about

1 contracts not being settled. What's the

2 current status of those discussions?

3 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: I think they're

4 still in negotiation.

5 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: You anticipate that

6 they'll be settled this year?

7 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: I'm not sure.

8 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So if they are

9 settled and we don't have money in the

10 budget, then how will those costs be paid by

11 the campuses?

12 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Well, we're

13 working with the campuses right now to

14 identify opportunities. And I think, when I

15 think about it, there are resources that we

16 will need to find efficiencies with.

17 Now, whether we use those to do -- you

18 know, whether they're used to do the

19 collective bargaining or used to invest in

20 building, I think those are the tradeoffs

21 we're going to have to make once we know what

22 the amounts are going to be and once we know

23 what our savings can be.

24 So we're certainly going to anticipate

1 that it is a tough economic climate, that we

2 want to do our part as part of SUNY in order

3 to help the state.

4 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: And I think that

5 if those contracts do get settled, we would

6 anticipate having additional conversations

7 with the Governor and Division of Budget.

8 Contracts can include a pay bill.

9 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay. So the

10 concern, though, is driving up costs for

11 students or having the colleges just have to

12 eat those costs and having to cut programs or

13 making other changes that aren't optimal.

14 One of the other things I wanted to

15 ask about has to do with SUNY capital

16 appropriations. So do you feel that the

17 level of capital funding in the Executive

18 Budget is sufficient?

19 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: As you know,

20 right now there's $350 million in the budget

21 for capital funding. And we're hoping that

22 that will be restored as part of the

23 restoration to the 550, which is what we had

24 last year. As I mentioned, most of our

1 buildings on average are at least 47 years

2 old, and they're in need of critical

3 maintenance. So we're hopeful that the

4 funding would be restored.

5 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Do you think that

6 $350 million is sufficient to cover the

7 needs?

8 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: From what our

9 study is -- and we have Bob Haelen here, who

10 heads up our construction fund who can

11 comment further. But our study would show

12 that we have a backlog of about $4 billion

13 over five years, which is why we requested

14 $800 million in the budget.

15 But maybe, Bob, you want to comment

16 further on that.

17 VICE CHANCELLOR HAELEN: Just given

18 our size and age and complexity of our

19 facilities, there's a tremendous capital need

20 across the entire system. And, you know, the

21 data that we have been looking at and looking

22 at how quickly we are aging and decaying, and

23 coupled with our existing backlog, it would

24 suggest that we need an order of magnitude of

1 about $800 million a year to keep our

2 facilities in a state of good repair.

3 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So there's quite a

4 gap there, then.

5 Okay, thank you very much. That's all

6 I have.

7 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

8 We've been joined by Assemblywoman

9 Fahy and Assemblyman Ortiz and Crystal

10 Peoples-Stokes sitting at the far end.

11 And our next questioner is Deputy

12 Speaker Hooper.

13 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HOOPER: Good morning.

14 I don't have a question, but I would

15 like to make a statement -- I beg your

16 pardon?

17 (Comments off the record.)

18 I'll start again. I would like to

19 first welcome new Chancellor Johnson.

20 But I would like to make a statement

21 more than a question in reference to what has

22 been happening in Nassau County, the Nassau

23 County Community College.

24 The college was being challenged this

1 past year by the middle schools in reference

2 to reaccrediting the school as for 14 issues

3 that they found outstanding. And I'm very

4 delighted that the college has now been

5 granted the reaccreditation. And this is a

6 very good thing because Nassau Community

7 College and the survival of this school,

8 which is a premier educational institution --

9 it is a major employer in all of Long Island

10 in every aspect of employment. And the loss

11 of that institution, aside from educating the

12 students, it would have an impact on the

13 vendors, the employees, the professionals,

14 and everyone and all of us who utilize those

15 services.

16 But I want to also point out that the

17 Nassau Community College needed to raise its

18 Hispanic population up to 25 percent, but

19 they did not have enough funds to do the

20 necessary advertising. And the state was

21 able to provide them with the funds. And

22 because they received those funds, they are

23 now able -- up to 25 percent of the Hispanic

24 students, which allows them to seek a

1 $3 million grant under Title III. And that's

2 a good thing.

3 But I want to especially thank H.

4 Carl McCall, president, and I want to thank

5 Duncan-Poitier. Because without their

6 assistance and without their working with me

7 in order to save this college, it could not

8 have been done.

9 So thank you, H. Carl McCall, and

10 thank you for your staff, in assuring that

11 this college survives.

12 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Thank you.

13 May I just say that the funds that

14 were provided for that particular program

15 were from the Performance Investment Fund, so

16 we deeply appreciate that support. Thank

17 you.

18 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

19 Senator Savino.

20 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you, Senator

21 Young.

22 Chancellor, I want to turn your

23 attention to a part of your testimony where

24 you talked about several factors that you

1 wanted to bring to our attention --

2 stabilization and the community colleges,

3 health and safety, and capital. In the

4 health and safety portion of the testimony,

5 you mention the concern that you have about

6 the hospital system -- SUNY Upstate, SUNY

7 Downstate, and Stony Brook. And you mention

8 briefly the effect of the 2 percent operating

9 rule and how it's affected you, but you don't

10 really put forward a proposal as to what you

11 would like.

12 And so in the Governor's budget there

13 is obviously something of great concern

14 because it talks about the elimination of the

15 state subsidy of almost $80 million to the

16 SUNY hospital systems, but that somehow a

17 shift to capital will make up for that. Can

18 you speak to that and what your understanding

19 of it is and whether or not you think that's

20 a good idea?

21 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: I will, and then

22 I'll turn also to Bob Megna, who is our chief

23 operating officer, to further opine.

24 I think the first thing you said is

1 about the 2 percent, the request. So the

2 request for the hospitals involves the

3 $80 million, and it also involves asking for

4 flexibility in order to spend funds that are

5 generated, like from other revenues not from

6 the state, above the 2 percent. So I want to

7 just be clear. What we're asking for is

8 flexibility. As other health aspects of the

9 budget have the flexibility to spend above

10 the 2 percent, we're asking for the same

11 thing.

12 With regard to the operating budget,

13 I'll turn to Bob to comment on that.

14 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you.

15 SR. VICE CHANCELLOR MEGNA: I think,

16 Senator, the theory behind the budget move

17 was to provide flexibility that there was

18 enough operating money spent at the hospitals

19 that could be converted to capital. I think

20 in our conversations with them we have let

21 them know that we think that would be a

22 difficult thing to accomplish and it would

23 have to be accomplished over a number of

24 years, and have asked them to look at

1 different alternatives. And they've been

2 very open to that. So I'm hoping we can get

3 this resolved quickly.

4 SENATOR SAVINO: So thank you for that

5 explanation. So this is not the flexibility

6 that you're searching for, though, that

7 you --

8 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: The flexibility

9 is the 2 percent spending cap and the other

10 alternatives we're still exploring.

11 SENATOR SAVINO: Okay. Thank you.

12 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Thank you.

13 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Assemblywoman

14 Fahy.

15 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Before that, I'd

16 like to point out that we've been joined by

17 Senator Kathy Marchione and Senator Jim

18 Tedisco. Welcome.

19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY: Thank you. Thank

20 you, Madam Chair. Appreciate that.

21 And welcome, Chancellor. It's a

22 pleasure to have you and your team here. And

23 also very much appreciated your comments

24 yesterday. I found your vision with your

1 four themes very helpful, particularly the

2 innovators and entrepreneurs. I'll be

3 stepping out shortly to talk about that on

4 net neutrality, actually.

5 I also need the record to note that

6 I've got my purple on for UAlbany. I would

7 be remiss if I didn't give my UAlbany

8 shout-out.

9 But I also -- just a couple of

10 comments and one question. Very interested

11 in the capital budget, the $4 billion that we

12 are waiting on or that there are needs for

13 the capital budget. I also want to put that

14 plug in for the Engineering School at

15 UAlbany, which I know is very important. So

16 we are very supportive of the needs on the

17 capital.

18 Very supportive of the EOP. And I was

19 a little concerned to see that there were

20 some cuts there. As somebody who is

21 first-generation American and

22 first-generation college attendee and college

23 graduate, while I did not benefit from the

24 EOP program, I think it is essential that we

1 allow others to. And it has been a raging

2 success at UAlbany, particularly with

3 retention rates, which I think is one of the

4 most critical methods that we can use in

5 terms of success of those type programs.

6 So that is very important. The other

7 thing that I -- related to that is the

8 Excelsior program. While I am very

9 supportive, my ongoing concern with that --

10 and again, I think the 23,000 new

11 opportunities that's given to 23,000 students

12 is extraordinary. But quality is going to be

13 essential, especially with retention rates,

14 especially with those freshman classes. I

15 don't think we will have accomplished a

16 lot if we go from 100 kids in a classroom to

17 400 kids in a classroom. So I want to be

18 supportive that we keep up our quality while

19 we continue to support the Excelsior program.

20 And that brings me to my question on

21 community colleges. Heard your comments, and

22 I really appreciate your thoughts. Again, I

23 wouldn't be here if it weren't for a

24 community college in my home state. So

1 affordability, accessibility is essential for

2 those of us who are first generation. But

3 one issue, in addition to the costs that you

4 raised with the FTE -- one issue that has

5 caused tensions here, which I think is

6 unfortunate, is the charge-back rate. And if

7 you have any updates on that this year, that

8 has caused some tensions with the counties.

9 Our community college here is Hudson

10 Valley, a terrific college. It sits in

11 Rensselaer County. And Albany County pays

12 what some would say is a higher charge-back

13 rate. And I think it causes unnecessary

14 tensions. Because of that, there's been an

15 effort to address charge-back rates, which we

16 have appreciated over the last couple of

17 years.

18 I just wondered if you had a quick

19 update. Thank you.

20 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Sure. Eileen?

21 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: So the update is

22 that we are scheduled to start in 2018-2019,

23 so it's scheduled to start this fall, and it

24 will be phased in over a five-year period.

1 ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY: Okay. So will

2 that give any relief to Hudson Valley this

3 year?

4 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: Starting this

5 fall, it will start to give relief, but full

6 relief over a five-year period.

7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY: Okay. All right.

8 Thank you.

9 And thank you again, Chancellor. I

10 look forward to working with you on all of

11 these issues. I know time is pressing.

12 And thank you, Madam Chair. I very

13 much appreciate the opportunity.

14 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: May I just say

15 one thing in response to what you said? And

16 I appreciate the comments on the charge-back.

17 Going back to retention and quality,

18 that is of utmost importance to us, because

19 we need to have quality programs, we need to

20 make sure that the students do graduate and

21 that we retain them.

22 So just a couple of programs that

23 you've probably heard of, Quantway, Statway,

24 and we're starting an English accelerator.

1 So these are the two gateway programs that

2 we're doing concurrent enrollment and

3 intervention, and it's working.

4 So we will keep you apprised of that.

5 I'm really proud of what the system is doing

6 to attract more students and to graduate more

7 students.

8 ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY: Much appreciated.

9 Thank you again, Chancellor.

10 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

11 Senator LaValle.

12 SENATOR LaVALLE: Good to see you

13 again, Chancellor.

14 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Good to see you

15 too, Senator.

16 SENATOR LaVALLE: This is your first

17 rite of spring or whatever.

18 I have a concern with the maintenance

19 of effort. How are you going to be handling

20 that?

21 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Well, as you

22 know, right now we have both maintenance of

23 effort and predictable tuition. The enhanced

24 maintenance of effort, which would include,

1 in addition, collective bargaining and other

2 activities, we're waiting to see what the

3 negotiations bring and what the impact would

4 be. And anticipating those, we're looking at

5 working with the individual campus presidents

6 as well as looking across SUNY to see where

7 we can create savings and efficiencies that

8 we can address it. Once we know what the

9 impact is, we're hoping to have further

10 conversations with regard to the opportunity

11 to address that.

12 We appreciate it's a very difficult

13 economic environment that we're in and it's a

14 tight budget, so we're trying to do our part.

15 SENATOR LaVALLE: Chair Glick and I

16 have not only once, but twice, passed

17 legislation that has been vetoed by the

18 Governor. And while we haven't spoken, we're

19 committed to trying to do something about

20 this. Because as you talk to campus

21 presidents and so forth, they may put a good

22 happy face on their comments to you, but I'm

23 not sure that -- we need to address that

24 issue, and we need your help in order to do

1 that.

2 Just rolling to capital, I have

3 colleagues that are very concerned about we

4 have engineering schools that need to be

5 replaced, one at $100 million, the other at

6 $75 million. Senator Akshar has been focused

7 and been very diligent, as the Binghamton

8 campus, on School of Pharmacy. So maybe you

9 could tell me where we are in addressing just

10 those three projects.

11 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Sure. Bob, would

12 you like to take that one on the three

13 specifics?

14 VICE CHANCELLOR HAELEN: So you had

15 engineering, pharmacy --

16 SENATOR LaVALLE: Pharmacy at

17 Binghamton and UB and Stony Brook engineering

18 schools.

19 VICE CHANCELLOR HAELEN: So we had a

20 variety of capital needs across the system,

21 and you're picking out what we would consider

22 some -- what we would consider the more

23 complex buildings, more expensive buildings,

24 and hence, you know, your price tags of

1 $50 million, $75 million.

2 The School of Pharmacy at Binghamton

3 is well under construction. That project is

4 ahead of schedule. I don't have the exact

5 completion date, but that is progressing

6 quite nicely.

7 With UB, you know, we have a

8 variety -- engineering is growing, right?

9 And they're doing their best to accommodate

10 the engineering program within the existing

11 facilities, but there still is some concerns

12 there and some additional funding is needed

13 for those facilities. We did complete a

14 brand-new School of Engineering at UB. So

15 we've accommodated quite a bit of the program

16 growth before it occurred, but they're still

17 growing and there's still a need there.

18 With Stony Brook, you know, again, a

19 great deal of need is on that campus. You

20 picked out one program, but there are several

21 other programs -- chemistry, the lecture

22 hall, the fine arts center, school of

23 business. There's a lot of competing

24 priorities. And, you know, we have to do our

1 best to allocate what precious funds we do

2 have to address those programs and the

3 facilities that accommodate those programs.

4 SENATOR LaVALLE: The issue at Poly, I

5 have a member on my committee, his name is

6 Senator Griffo, who has concerns. What do I

7 tell Senator Griffo, he's worrying too much?

8 SR. VICE CHANCELLOR MEGNA: Senator, I

9 would never tell anyone they're worrying too

10 much. It's -- I think pretty dramatic steps

11 have been taken to reform activities at Poly,

12 both with respect to the not-for-profits

13 Fuller Road and Fort Schuyler and with

14 respect to the operation of the university at

15 the campus.

16 I think folks are working very

17 diligently. The interim president I think

18 is doing a wonderful job at trying to

19 reorganize and efficiently put back in place

20 the academic programs at Poly. And I think

21 the economic development programs are now

22 being run through a very transparent and open

23 process subject to open meeting laws and

24 subject to procurement laws that are very

1 similar to those of the State of New York.

2 So I think we're making progress

3 towards addressing those worries.

4 SENATOR LaVALLE: Does the interim

5 president live on the grounds of Poly?

6 SR. VICE CHANCELLOR MEGNA: I believe

7 he spends his time between both the Utica and

8 the Poly campuses.

9 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Yeah. Yeah.

10 SENATOR LaVALLE: Is there any hope

11 that -- I think Senator Griffo has concerns

12 that presidents should be there full-time.

13 Is there any chance of that happening,

14 Chancellor?

15 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: So in thinking

16 about Poly, I want to step back for a moment

17 and just say I -- obviously it predated my

18 chancellorship, but I'm very aware of the

19 technology, being an electrical and optical

20 engineer, of the quality of the work that's

21 going on there on the academic side. And I

22 think it's something that is extraordinary.

23 The 5-nanometer transistor that was developed

24 this last summer is 16,000 times smaller than

1 the diameter of a human hair. This is going

2 to revolutionize our chip industry, it's

3 going to potentially revolutionize Internet

4 routers and switches.

5 What we need to do is continue to

6 build on that excellence with the integrated

7 photonic AIM program that we have with

8 Rochester. So I see that the research

9 trajectory, the research and academic agenda

10 is very bright.

11 The president right now, Bahgat

12 Sammakia, is terrific. He is an interim. He

13 is there full-time. He would like to return

14 to his previous life, although I think he'd

15 be an extraordinary permanent president.

16 So we're in the process of -- first,

17 we have -- the Board of Trustees has approved

18 a loan to Poly, subject to my approval of the

19 budget. We're very close to that. We're

20 then, as Mr. Megna said, we're actually

21 working through the restructuring. And then

22 the next step will be looking at the

23 permanent academic structure of those

24 campuses. So it's a work in progress. I

1 think we're making very, very good progress,

2 and I think the future is very bright for it.

3 Thousands of jobs are being created, and I

4 think thousands more will be created.

5 SENATOR LaVALLE: If we could find

6 some time, maybe sit down with Senator

7 Griffo --

8 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: That would be

9 great. That would be great.

10 SENATOR LaVALLE: He's been through a

11 lot of ups and downs. So I would appreciate

12 that.

13 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Certainly.

14 SENATOR LaVALLE: Just going back to

15 the buildings on the Stony Brook campus, I

16 think their number-one priority, although

17 they have many things, I think President

18 Stanley has made it clear that the School of

19 Engineering is the number-one priority.

20 VICE CHANCELLOR HAELEN: I would

21 agree.

22 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: If I could just

23 say one little thing about Stony Brook in the

24 context of the capital budget. It is

1 something I mentioned yesterday in the State

2 of the University System address.

3 One of the many things that Stony

4 Brook has done that are definitely worth

5 noting is the investment of $5.7 million --

6 thank you for the support -- to invest in

7 retrofitting and energy efficiency on those

8 buildings. It will save $832,000 a year,

9 which is a payback of less than seven years.

10 That's the value of that capital investment,

11 is to be able to invest in something that's

12 going to give you a payback of over

13 14 percent a year. After seven years, that

14 800,000 will accrue every year.

15 If we can take that at scale across

16 the SUNY campuses, we believe we can save the

17 operating budget of each and every campus.

18 And that's one of the reasons that we asked

19 for the capital investment we did, along with

20 an $80 million energy retrofit fund. So that

21 when we're doing the critical maintenance,

22 that's the most cost-effective time for us to

23 also do the energy efficiency and save those

24 individual campuses money.

1 SENATOR LaVALLE: Okay. I'm just

2 going to make one final comment. I know both

3 Chair Glick and I have, on two occasions,

4 asked the Executive for a five-year capital

5 plan. There are many needs. There's not

6 only the critical maintenance, but we need to

7 move forward on buildings. I know I have

8 members chasing after me to try and have help

9 on that. So I think it's important if you

10 can, with us, lobby the Executive so that we

11 have a five-year capital plan.

12 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Assemblywoman

13 Lifton.

14 ASSEMBLYWOMAN LIFTON: Thank you.

15 Good morning, Chancellor, and

16 welcome --

17 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Thank you.

18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN LIFTON: -- to your new

19 very important position as the head of our

20 wonderful State University. Which I am a

21 graduate of, and many of my colleagues are,

22 you no doubt know. I'm a proud alum of SUNY

23 Geneseo, the daughter of a professor at

24 Geneseo as well, so I got a double hit here.

1 So your answer on the last question

2 was part of my question to you about the

3 energy retrofits. I was very glad to hear

4 you talking about that. I'm sure you know

5 that many New Yorkers are very concerned

6 about the growing problem of climate change

7 and understand that, you know, buildings are

8 a really important piece of that. And the

9 ability to build green buildings and retrofit

10 old buildings is a very important, valuable

11 way to help bring down the demand for energy

12 and therefore the release of greenhouse

13 gases. So I'm very glad to hear you

14 emphasizing that and talking about the

15 economic benefits, obviously, as well.

16 So my question was going to be I

17 assume you're doing -- you've done some sort

18 of assessment on that at the campus level --

19 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Yes.

20 ASSEMBLYWOMAN LIFTON: -- and you've

21 just cited some data. So you have the data

22 on --

23 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Yes, we do.

24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN LIFTON: -- on the costs

1 and the benefits already ready to go.

2 Do campuses currently have the

3 discretion, with their capital money, to make

4 those decisions? Or does it call for action

5 from Albany -- from SUNY Central or from

6 Albany in terms of broadening that or making

7 sure that that happens in a sensible way?

8 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: You know, I think

9 one of the things I said yesterday in the

10 State of the University System address is

11 that I really see the vision of SUNY to be

12 that hybrid organizational model where you

13 enable the network and the local campuses to

14 act and really do what they know best with

15 their knowledge and mission, at the same time

16 you coordinate.

17 And I think one of the ways that we do

18 that brilliantly is the work that Bob Haelen

19 does as head of the Construction Fund. So

20 I'm going to ask him to comment on one of

21 specifics of your question.

22 But I think that we do coordinate and

23 prioritize the application of our capital

24 construction fund. And what we've found

1 out -- and this is working with Rocky

2 Mountain Institute, we did a charrette this

3 fall with Bob's group and some of the campus

4 leaders in sustainability -- is that it's

5 exactly when you do the critical

6 maintenance -- and it makes sense -- that you

7 do the retrofit.

8 So, you know, we're responsible for

9 about 40 percent of compliance with Executive

10 Order 166, and we take that responsibility

11 very seriously. And we're pretty excited

12 about doing that. And so as a result, we've

13 signed an MOU with NYSERDA, and they are

14 agreeing to cofund an energy manager at each

15 eligible campus or region to help us identify

16 both the low-hanging fruit and get that

17 done -- where you have payback maybe within a

18 couple of years, and campuses can see that.

19 When you think about what Stony Brook

20 was able to accomplish, it did take

21 $5.7 million, and that's a lot of money.

22 They do get the $832,000-a-year payback,

23 which is great, and save almost 4,000 tons of

24 CO2, to your point. So we are trying to get

1 a grip on our carbon emissions.

2 The question that has really plagued

3 energy efficiency throughout the country is

4 the question, if you've heard this, of the

5 $20 bill. And what that means is if you can

6 save all this money, it's like $20 bills on

7 the street. Why don't people pick them up?

8 Why don't we do energy efficiency at scale?

9 And what I realized by thinking about

10 this after the charrette that Bob hosted, and

11 the workshop with RMI, it's because it's not

12 a $20 bill in one place at one time. It is a

13 line of little pennies or dimes or nickels,

14 and you have to go along and pick each one

15 up. And after a while, you don't want to do

16 that. And so therefore it's not the ability

17 to put all that money up front and be patient

18 and wait for the payback. Because, one, you

19 don't have it and, two, you don't have the

20 time to go and pick them all up.

21 And that's why we propose to coinvest,

22 when we're doing these capital improvements,

23 a small fund -- and it's about 10 percent.

24 And we got numbers from Rocky Mountain

1 Institute. So who is Rocky Mountain

2 Institute? They celebrated their 35th

3 anniversary. They did the Empire State

4 retrofit. They saved the Empire State

5 Building $3.4 million a year on a $10 million

6 energy efficiency. So that's a payback of

7 less than three years, or about three years.

8 That's what we want to do. And we want to do

9 that at scale.

10 And so I know I said I'd ask Bob to

11 answer, and I haven't really let him. So

12 would you like to say something, Bob?

13 (Laughter.)

14 ASSEMBLYWOMAN LIFTON: Do I get any of

15 this time back -- no, it's wonderful, I'm

16 really glad to hear this.

17 VICE CHANCELLOR HAELEN: There's many

18 ways that the campuses approach energy

19 efficiency. First of all, we've come quite a

20 ways in monitoring our energy use. There's

21 metering in all our buildings. We know which

22 ones are energy-intensive, which are not.

23 We also have a variety of programs

24 available through the state, through NYPA and

1 NYSERDA. The campuses work directly with

2 those organizations, and they've done a whole

3 range of energy-saving initiatives -- LED

4 lighting, for example, interior and exterior

5 lighting. So there are some great programs

6 out there.

7 And then when it comes to the capital

8 program, our approach is to work

9 collaboratively with the campus, let's

10 identify which project is a high priority,

11 which needs a lot of critical maintenance

12 investment. And when we're going to approach

13 that design, we're going to design to a

14 minimum of a LEED Silver standard. All

15 right? So you're already achieving quite a

16 bit of energy savings through that process.

17 And we exceed energy code on every one of our

18 projects. So we want to continue that effort

19 and even go a lot further with our energy

20 savings.

21 But it is definitely a collaborative

22 process with the campus. It's their home,

23 they've got to help us decide what's the next

24 project to do.

1 ASSEMBLYWOMAN LIFTON: So I'm out of

2 time, but another time I'll ask you about

3 full-time versus adjunct faculty and where we

4 are on our SUNY campuses, a very important

5 topic as well. Thank you, Chancellor.

6 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Thank you.

7 SENATOR LaVALLE: We've been joined by

8 Senator Alcantara.

9 Our next speaker is Senator Stavisky.

10 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you. And

11 welcome, Chancellor.

12 A quick follow-up on the Excelsior

13 scholarship. You said that there's been an

14 increase of 8 percent in terms of

15 applications. Has there been any tracking of

16 both the completion of the 30 credits and any

17 impact on their GPA amongst the applicants

18 for the Excelsior scholarship?

19 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: It might be too

20 early on the GPA because we just have that

21 first semester and I know the grades are in.

22 But I think we have some information with

23 regard to the 30-credit completion. I think

24 Patty Thompson is here with that. Or do you

1 know?

2 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: I think it's

3 a -- We did see like an 11 percent increase

4 in students taking the 15 credits. We're

5 still, you know, in the second semester,

6 so --

7 SENATOR STAVISKY: So it's working.

8 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: So I think

9 preliminarily it's working, yes.

10 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you.

11 Let me ask the perennial question that

12 I ask every chancellor, and that is the

13 question of full-time faculty compared to the

14 part-time or adjuncts. What's happening to

15 the ratio, and what is the percentage and

16 what's the trend?

17 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Right. This is

18 an area that's very much a passion of mine.

19 And so when I think about full-time faculty,

20 we -- and I'm going to ask Eileen to pull up

21 the percentage if you have it. But I think

22 it's something like 40 percent of our faculty

23 are adjuncts or part-time. We'll get you the

24 exact number.

1 But it's a large percentage, and this

2 is a concern to me. I would -- I really want

3 to invest in more full-time faculty. I think

4 that one of the things that we're going to be

5 seeing with 40 percent of our faculty of or

6 near retirement age -- so right now about 200

7 faculty retire a year from the SUNY system.

8 But if you've got anywhere from between a

9 third to 40 percent that could retire

10 tomorrow, this is something we've got to get

11 ready for, because that's going to double

12 that amount.

13 And so one of the things that I'd like

14 to see is that we really put an effort into

15 raising endowed chairs and graduate

16 fellowships and the kinds of things that

17 attract the faculty members to come to SUNY

18 and to get the very best academic talent so

19 we can continue to build on the quality of

20 our existing outstanding faculty.

21 And I'd like to bring them on sooner

22 rather than later so they can learn from the

23 distinguished faculty before we lose that

24 institutional knowledge. So we're looking at

1 many ways to either build partnerships, to

2 raise our philanthropic sights in order to

3 make those kinds of investments.

4 SENATOR STAVISKY: The 40 percent you

5 say is full-time faculty, approximately.

6 Does that include the Research Foundation?

7 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Yeah, I'm not

8 sure that it's -- I believe, and I'm trying

9 to remember these numbers. We'll get you the

10 exact numbers. I think it's 40 percent of

11 our faculty are part-time, but I might be --

12 that might be --

13 SENATOR STAVISKY: If you would get me

14 that, I'd appreciate it. And secondly,

15 whether that includes --

16 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: That might be a

17 little high. We'll text somebody and get you

18 the number real quick. I used to have it off

19 the top of my head, and it's just one of

20 those numbers that went out.

21 SENATOR STAVISKY: Does that include

22 Research Foundation faculty, people who may

23 be assigned as researchers whom they're

24 counting as full-time faculty?

1 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: If they are

2 faculty --

3 SENATOR STAVISKY: If you'd just get

4 me the --

5 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: We'll get you the

6 numbers. But then it would include faculty

7 that are research faculty if they're

8 full-time. But we'll get those numbers.

9 SENATOR STAVISKY: One other question

10 involving the SUNY charter schools.

11 Originally it was suggested that the

12 prospective teachers have a minimum number of

13 hours. Now it's up to, I think, 100. Can

14 you tell me what's happening, how that's

15 trending?

16 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: I think it might

17 be too early to tell how it's trending per

18 se. But we -- as you know, we charter

19 through the Charter Schools Institute about

20 187 schools right now. I think we've shut

21 down 19. Those are roughly the numbers.

22 I'll verify the numbers.

23 So I think the thing that I'd like to

24 say is that we're committed to quality, we're

1 committed to making sure that we provide

2 quality. And if the schools aren't

3 performing to that, we will shut them down.

4 SENATOR STAVISKY: That's not my

5 question. My question is the lack of

6 classroom-contact hours by the teachers.

7 That has been a problem. When I was a -- I

8 did my student teaching upstate, and I spent

9 a whole semester in a junior high school. A

10 lot of contact hours with the students. To

11 me, that's irreplaceable for training

12 purposes. You can't learn in a classroom as

13 much as you can learn teaching, you know,

14 actual kids.

15 Would you get back to me with the

16 information --

17 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: I will absolutely

18 get back to you, yup.

19 SENATOR STAVISKY: -- on the training

20 for the teachers? Because a child needs a

21 good teacher, period.

22 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Thank you.

23 Understood. We'll get back to you.

24 SENATOR STAVISKY: One last quick

1 question. What are you spending in terms of

2 remediation for kids who are not prepared to

3 take classes?

4 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Well, there's two

5 things that we're doing. One is the Carnegie

6 Institution's Quantway/Statway program. And

7 so what that means is that there are two

8 gatekeeping classes that prevent our students

9 from graduating. One is the math

10 requirement, the other is English.

11 And so what we've done with

12 Quantway/Statway, we've invested and we're

13 expanding it now to over 20 of our campuses.

14 We do concurrent enrollment with a class that

15 provides some of the foundational mathematics

16 as well as they take a stats class. Then we

17 have the -- concurrently they're enrolled in

18 another class that gives them the foundation

19 to understand some of the higher concepts in

20 the stat class.

21 What we've found with that -- and this

22 is the statistics that I think is

23 interesting -- is that in the past only

24 25 percent of our students would pass, after

1 two semesters, a math course. Now

2 75 percent, on this concurrent model, are

3 passing the first time. Now we're extending

4 it also to the English accelerated course.

5 So I think these are two of the things

6 that we're doing to support our students in

7 the classroom and getting them to graduation.

8 SENATOR STAVISKY: And the amount, the

9 cost?

10 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: So those

11 programs that the chancellor is referring to

12 are programs that are sort of improving our

13 remedial instruction. That investment is

14 about 5 million. But remedial instruction

15 costs the system, if you look at courses that

16 you could identify as remedial courses, it's

17 probably closer to 60 million.

18 But I also wanted to say that the

19 chancellor was correct, we do have 40 percent

20 part-time adjunct faculty.

21 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you.

22 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

23 We've been joined by Assemblywoman Jo Anne

24 Butler. Mr. Oaks?

1 Excuse me, Assemblywoman Jo Anne

2 Simon. I combined two members.

3 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: And we have been

4 joined by Assemblyman Mark Butler, who is the

5 ranking member on Higher Ed.

6 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Mr. Butler,

7 now, for some questions.

8 ASSEMBLYMAN BUTLER: Thank you very

9 much. And welcome, Chancellor.

10 First of all, my apologies. I had a

11 committee meeting, I got here a little bit

12 late, so I hope I'm not covering ground

13 that's already been addressed.

14 It seems to me, at its most

15 fundamental level, many of the questions

16 we're asking revolve around money and

17 funding. We all know we're facing a serious

18 deficit this year with the state, and we also

19 know of the Governor's penchant for

20 consolidations and shared services and those

21 kinds of arrangements as shared services.

22 Now, I'm new in this position but I

23 had a sense a few years ago that there was an

24 effort to look at shared services, shared

1 staffing, shared programs, perhaps even going

2 back and forth between campuses between

3 programs. I know in that very prestigious

4 school up north, SUNY Potsdam and Canton had

5 an arrangement. And it seemed to me -- and I

6 haven't been paying full attention, but it

7 seemed to me that maybe that effort had kind

8 of tapered off a little. I wonder if you

9 could tell me, has that effort been ongoing?

10 And considering our financial

11 situation this year, do you foresee that

12 possibly even as part of this budget

13 discussion we're going to be talking about

14 that on some of these SUNY campuses,

15 particularly community college campuses?

16 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: So that effort

17 is ongoing. We had set ourselves a goal of

18 reaching 100 million of identified savings,

19 and we've reached that goal. And we continue

20 to have a continuation annually of savings.

21 The areas that we target are shared

22 procurement in a lot of IT contracts. We

23 have shared procurement in managed print and

24 travel and all series of commodities that we

1 purchase.

2 So that is continuing, and we are

3 looking -- and we're also, in some of those

4 contracts and in some of these services we

5 will get, we actually have structured them so

6 the community colleges can participate. An

7 example is the community colleges participate

8 in our Security Operations Center, which is

9 our cybersecurity center to protect our data.

10 Some of the flexibility or the

11 language we're looking for to allow us to do

12 a combined consortium for services will kind

13 of help us to continue to accelerate that a

14 little bit more.

15 So thank you very much for the

16 question. We're always looking at how we can

17 get savings.

18 ASSEMBLYMAN BUTLER: Well, thank you

19 very much for that.

20 Again, I hope -- and this may have

21 been asked earlier, but I know some of the

22 community colleges are advocating for a

23 change in the manner of funding away from the

24 FTE and going to another system. Is that

1 something that may be considered in this

2 budget cycle or in the very near future?

3 It seems -- you know, from my cursory

4 reading it seems to make a great deal of

5 sense. You have a lot of, in these community

6 colleges, a lot of remedial work that needs

7 to be done, a lot of students that need these

8 financial assistance programs and those kinds

9 of things. And I think perhaps our community

10 colleges need a little touchup. I think they

11 haven't been given the full consideration

12 that they warrant. They do a great job.

13 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: This is something

14 we would like for you to consider and for the

15 Executive to consider in this budget year.

16 And the reason why is that it's a bit of a

17 two-part story at the community college.

18 You have certain fixed costs, about

19 80 percent are fixed, and then you have the

20 variable costs. And as the enrollment

21 declines, you start to -- where the

22 enrollment declines, the funding is based on

23 enrollment, so it's based on volume. But the

24 costs are based on -- the majority are fixed.

1 So then you run into a place where we are

2 asking for a, if you will, a

3 maintenance-of-effort-type approach to the

4 community college so that they can continue

5 to be the gems that they are in their local

6 communities.

7 ASSEMBLYMAN BUTLER: Okay. Well, I

8 know at Herkimer College they have an

9 additional expense, they have to buy more and

10 more cabinets for all the medals and trophies

11 they win in national championships.

12 (Laughter.)

13 ASSEMBLYMAN BUTLER: But I thank you

14 for your time. I appreciate it.

15 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Thank you.

16 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

17 SENATOR LaVALLE: Senator Marchione.

18 SENATOR MARCHIONE: Thank you. Hi,

19 Chancellor. Good morning. Thank you for

20 being here.

21 And I know a question was just asked

22 on community colleges, but I want to weigh in

23 as well. I have a couple of community

24 colleges in my district. One of them is

1 Columbia-Greene, and I have much conversation

2 with President Campion. And exactly what

3 you're saying is how can each of them -- he

4 has said to me it's actually a perfect storm,

5 because colleges work countercyclical to the

6 economy, and when jobs are plentiful, people

7 are working. And with unemployment low --

8 which are all good things -- the reality

9 means fewer students to the colleges.

10 And this is really very serious to us.

11 Certainly colleges are meant to teach, but

12 they are also a hub in the community. And in

13 Columbia County, much goes on in education

14 outside of the students. I'm having a heroin

15 forum there at the end of February to help

16 the community type of things. I have my

17 Golden Gathering, which is a services-based

18 program, in October where over 13,000 seniors

19 come for flu shots and services and education

20 on what's offered to them.

21 Our community colleges are vital in

22 our districts. And, you know, I've heard

23 what you have said. So you can comment if

24 you care to. But as Senator Griffo is

1 worried, I'm very worried over our community

2 colleges.

3 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Well, thank you

4 very much. I think, considering it, I would

5 agree with what you said. Forty percent of

6 the students that attend community colleges

7 are adults. And when the economy is better

8 and they're full-time working, they reduce

9 the amount of credits they take. So then you

10 have to have many students make up that

11 one-time full-time-equivalent person of which

12 the funding basis is based on.

13 So it definitely is countercyclical.

14 They're definitely very important to our

15 communities. And I think the other thing is

16 many of our community colleges are taking on

17 the burden of the high-need, high-cost

18 programs in order to retrain individuals for

19 the high-tech -- you know, the future of

20 work. It's the labs that are really

21 expensive. And I've been at a few places

22 that have opened up new advanced industrial

23 manufacturing centers. And they're

24 beautiful, they're necessary, they train our

1 workforce for the future, but they're more

2 expensive than a regular classroom.

3 So I think we need to be mindful of

4 the mix of not only the classes we're

5 teaching, the number of students and their

6 demographics as well. But it is, as you

7 said, a perfect -- potentially a perfect

8 storm.

9 SENATOR MARCHIONE: I have just one

10 further question, and just really for my own

11 information. Do you stream a lot of your

12 classes across your campuses? I mean, do you

13 find that best-practice teacher who is just

14 best in their field and stream those classes?

15 I mean, streaming is such a technology.

16 There are churches in our area that have one

17 pastor, and he's amazing, and they stream to

18 their sister churches. Are you using that

19 technology?

20 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Senator, we are,

21 and I think it's actually a lovely idea. We

22 have 524 online degree programs and thousands

23 of online classes.

24 I think the opportunity -- and we've

1 been discussing this with the Board of

2 Trustees -- is sort of a digital badging and

3 microcredentialing where you can take that

4 professor who may know force fields better

5 than anybody else in the world, and you take

6 that particular class from that professor at

7 that university, and another class from

8 another professor to augment, and you create

9 sort of a digital badge of knowledge that you

10 can actually put on your resume, and people

11 can click on that badge and actually see what

12 you've taken. And that's really where this

13 whole program is going. I'm proud that SUNY

14 is a leader in this area.

15 So thank you for that question.

16 SENATOR MARCHIONE: And that does mean

17 that if I am a student on campus, you're

18 using that technology on campus, as well as

19 the student who's sitting at home -- you're

20 using them both.

21 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: That's right.

22 That's right. Exactly.

23 SENATOR MARCHIONE: Thank you very

24 much. I appreciate your comments.

1 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

2 Assemblyman Oaks.

3 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Yes, Chancellor,

4 you talked a bit earlier in the questioning

5 and some response to it on the retention

6 issues and some of the programs you're

7 looking for that.

8 Do we have some numbers comparatively

9 from year to year on how retention is going

10 at SUNY? I know your predecessor was

11 obviously very interested in that as well.

12 But just thinking through of success in the

13 overall system, certainly attempting to raise

14 those numbers is good for them, good for all

15 of us.

16 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Absolutely. We

17 do have those numbers; I can provide them to

18 you. Let me just share, though, a couple of

19 programs that are helping those numbers, and

20 then Eileen will give you the exact numbers.

21 So we started a program at New Paltz,

22 under the leadership of the president there,

23 there are about a hundred students that ran

24 into unforeseen nonacademic difficulties. In

1 one case, it was the loss of a parent. And

2 in another, a parent who was working two jobs

3 to put their daughters through college at

4 New Paltz, couldn't work two jobs because

5 they had to take care of their spouse.

6 So the campus put aside a small amount

7 of money and gave little microgrants to about

8 a hundred students. Eighty-seven of them

9 came back to school and are on-track to

10 graduate. And when you look at the number of

11 graduates per year and you look at the

12 increase of 87 -- and I've done the numbers.

13 It's a significant percentage -- well, when I

14 say significant, it might be between 3 and

15 4 percent increase in their graduation rate.

16 So we've taken this example, and I

17 think this is the power of SUNY, we went out

18 and through the generosity of the Gerstner

19 Foundation and the Heckscher Foundation for

20 Children, we've received $600,000 in grants

21 in order to pilot that same program now at

22 seven different campuses.

23 Again, small loans -- can't pay an

24 electricity bill, don't have some of the

1 basics, gets a flat tire. The sorts of

2 things that kids come across that even the

3 most dedicated student has to drop out. So

4 once we pilot this across seven, we're going

5 to keep that data, or track it, and then our

6 goal is to pilot it across all the students.

7 You know, one of the things that was

8 in the Governor's State of the State agenda

9 is a food pantry. So we formed a task force

10 in order to ensure that every single one of

11 our campuses either has a food pantry or is

12 affiliated with a food pantry so that food

13 insecurity for our students is not a reason

14 they don't complete their degree.

15 Now I hope I filibustered long enough

16 to get the data on the actual numbers on how

17 we're doing on retention.

18 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: So when it comes

19 to public systems, SUNY is only behind the UC

20 system, the University of California system,

21 in our performance.

22 But on average, SUNY is above the

23 average. Our six-year graduation rate is

24 67 percent. With public universities, the

1 six-year rate is 58 percent; with privates,

2 the six-year rate is, on average, 65 percent.

3 The industry standard is the six-year

4 graduation rate.

5 On the four-year graduation rate, we

6 are still better, on average, than the

7 publics. Our four-year graduate rate is

8 50.5 percent versus 34.1 percent for publics,

9 versus 52.5 percent on average for privates.

10 But of course we want to continue to

11 invest in these programs because

12 50.5 percent, even if you're above the

13 average, is not good enough.

14 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Thank you.

15 One of the things in the budget, we

16 found the Governor's proposal was

17 $300 million to support projects to foster

18 research and development and whatever. Do we

19 have any sense if SUNY or the private

20 colleges are going to be able to tap into

21 that?

22 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: I don't think

23 that it's clear how those funds will be

24 allocated. But we certainly would like to be

1 part of anything that is going on in that

2 arena.

3 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: I'm sure. And I

4 know there was a quick reference to some of

5 the compliance issues, and I know -- and just

6 oversight. And I know Mr. Megna related that

7 you feel like you've made some progress in

8 that area. I know the Governor proposes

9 requiring affiliated nonprofit organizations

10 of SUNY to adopt written financial policies.

11 And I'm just asking, are you confident that

12 what he's proposed, that you will be able to

13 comply with that, or what's negotiated?

14 SR. VICE CHANCELLOR MEGNA: Well,

15 again, at the Poly facilities I think we've

16 already adopted, you know, guidelines for the

17 operation of the board and for the

18 procurement of services that pretty much

19 follow that already. So I'm pretty confident

20 we're --

21 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: That you're maybe

22 already in compliance with what the Governor

23 said.

24 SR. VICE CHANCELLOR MEGNA: I think

1 that's right.

2 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Thank you very

3 much.

4 SENATOR LaVALLE: We've been joined by

5 Senator Bailey.

6 And Senator Krueger.

7 SENATOR KRUEGER: Good morning. It's

8 still morning.

9 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Good morning.

10 SENATOR KRUEGER: Actually following

11 up on the last questions about governance and

12 management, has SUNY actually created new

13 management and a transparency system for your

14 affiliated organizations and foundations?

15 And are they available to us?

16 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: So in the spring

17 of 2016, the SUNY Board of Trustees approved

18 new guidelines for oversight of all of our

19 foundations and campus-related entities that

20 bring their standards up to the standard of

21 the New York State Nonprofit Law of 2013. It

22 also allows SUNY to have complete access in

23 terms of auditing and oversight on affiliate

24 creation. So they have tightened up those

1 policies.

2 SENATOR KRUEGER: And are the reports

3 being done publicly available?

4 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: The reports on

5 the audits when they're completed are

6 publicly available, yes.

7 SENATOR KRUEGER: Is there a schedule

8 for audits, or is it just a --

9 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: I can provide

10 that to you.

11 SENATOR KRUEGER: Okay, thank you.

12 And do you know how many, in total,

13 SUNY has of affiliated organizations and

14 foundations?

15 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: We can provide

16 you with that number.

17 SENATOR KRUEGER: That would be great.

18 I mean, are we talking 10, 75? I don't know.

19 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: We can provide

20 you with the list. I'm going to say it's 30.

21 But I can give you that number.

22 SENATOR KRUEGER: Great.

23 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: And I'll give

24 you that breakdown.

1 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

2 And the chancellor actually just

3 touched on it in answering another question,

4 the issue of food pantries available either,

5 on campuses or affiliated with, based on the

6 Governor's commitment to deal with hunger and

7 nutrition issues for young people.

8 I'm wondering whether SUNY has a plan

9 to expand and assist your students to become

10 eligible for the federal SNAP program. The

11 data shows that about 50 percent of

12 low-income students in the CUNY and SUNY

13 systems are not participating in SNAP because

14 of the employment requirement for college

15 students, but that with creative use of

16 work-study and other employment-type

17 activities related to being a college

18 student, a much greater number of our

19 students could draw down SNAP, which of

20 course is 100 percent federal money

21 specifically to buy food.

22 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: We'll look into

23 that. Thank you.

24 SENATOR KRUEGER: I appreciate that.

1 I urge the Governor to take on that challenge

2 as well.

3 When we allowed the tuition increase

4 from last year, it was explicitly to be used

5 to support faculty and student success

6 initiatives. I know it's very early, it only

7 being January, in implementing this this

8 year, but do you have a sense of which

9 specific programs are being expanded and

10 supported by the tuition increase?

11 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: We can get back

12 to you on that. I think that the increase is

13 $200 per student. So how much would that be

14 altogether?

15 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: About

16 20 million, based on enrollment. It does

17 vary by campus.

18 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: And it does vary

19 by campus. So let us think about that and

20 get back to you on that.

21 SENATOR KRUEGER: So do you think

22 it's -- I'm sorry, there's a TV camera I

23 think talking to us by accident or something,

24 talking to us.

1 Do you think it's by campus, each

2 campus gets to determine how they're

3 investing this tuition increase for these

4 purposes? Or is it a systemwide policy?

5 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: Each campus puts

6 a financial plan together for us, but the

7 tuition dollars are all focused on

8 instructional and advising needs.

9 SENATOR KRUEGER: Okay, I look forward

10 to all this information. Thank you.

11 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Assemblywoman

12 Rodneyse Bichotte.

13 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE: Yes, thank

14 you.

15 Thank you, Chancellor, for being here,

16 and congratulations on your new role.

17 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Thank you.

18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE: I certainly

19 look forward to working with you.

20 I must say that I am a proud product

21 of the SUNY system. I'm a graduate of SUNY

22 Buffalo State College as well as SUNY

23 University of Buffalo in both STEM programs,

24 engineering and math, and a proud former

1 tutor of the math program in the Educational

2 Opportunity Program.

3 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Ah, thank you.

4 Thank you for your service.

5 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE: So my

6 question actually revolves around the topics

7 and programs that made me a success story.

8 And first I want to start with the

9 Educational Opportunity Program.

10 I'm certainly deeply concerned that

11 765 students will be impacted from being part

12 of the program, as well as $10 million in

13 cuts on the centers as well as the program.

14 As mentioned, although I was not a member of

15 EOP, I worked with the students. I have a

16 number of colleagues who are success stories

17 who are doing wonderful things as a result of

18 having the opportunity to excel. And so I'm

19 deeply concerned.

20 I'm also deeply concerned with the

21 cuts in the Diversity Graduate Fellowship

22 Program, as well as CSTEP, another program

23 that I was part of and overall STEM. So to

24 me, it seems like programs that are helping

1 low-income students, minority students, and

2 pushing students towards science and

3 technology so that they can be better

4 prepared in the world, so that they can have

5 options in the workforce, are just being

6 disregarded.

7 And I'm very concerned, and I'm hoping

8 that you have a different strategy in terms

9 of restoring those funds and actually

10 increasing those funds.

11 Another question I have -- well, a

12 comment. Just -- community colleges just

13 should be free. I think community college

14 should be free. So I think we should think

15 about the direction that we want to take in

16 terms of finding a way to make community

17 college free. It would help the four-year

18 institutions in their debt load.

19 DACA, as you know, on the federal

20 level is under threat to being ended. And I

21 notice that you have the DREAM Act as a

22 priority. But how much of a priority will it

23 be given the state of DACA on the federal

24 level? Students who are here who came into

1 the United States at a very young age, who

2 didn't have the decision to come or not, are

3 now growing up, and we've been pushing for

4 them to have an opportunity to afford to go

5 to college. So we want to know what's going

6 on with that.

7 And lastly, going back to your

8 Excelsior program, I noticed that you said

9 that 23 students at SUNY and CUNY are

10 recipients of the Excelsior?

11 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: 23,000.

12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE: Sorry,

13 23,000. How many of those are SUNY? And

14 what percentage of the total SUNY body are

15 receiving Excelsior scholarships?

16 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: If I'm correct on

17 that, it's about 17,000 for SUNY?

18 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: Right.

19 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: About 17,000. So

20 the split is about 17,000 -- so 6,000, in

21 order to make up the 23,000.

22 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE: So about

23 6,000 students?

24 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: It's about

1 17,000.

2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE: Oh, 17,000 at

3 SUNY. And what's the total SUNY population?

4 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: It depends on how

5 you count. But there's about 453,000

6 full-time -- you know, I think that that

7 would be the cohort you'd compare the

8 Excelsior to. So it would be 17,000 out of

9 about 465,000.

10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE: Okay. Wow.

11 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: But half the

12 SUNY population -- with all aid programs

13 available, about 50 percent of SUNY students

14 have free tuition.

15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE: Say that

16 again?

17 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: Fifty percent of

18 SUNY students have free tuition, based on all

19 the programs that are available to them, in

20 addition to Excelsior.

21 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE: So that's a

22 last-dollar program.

23 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: Yes.

24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE: So if they

1 have a Pell or if they have a TAP or

2 whatever.

3 But how many students who are not

4 receiving TAP and Pell and other assistive

5 programs of the 453 -- you said 50 percent of

6 the students who are receiving aid are

7 getting Excelsior.

8 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: So how many

9 students get Pell and TAP up to the cost of

10 tuition so they do not qualify for the

11 Excelsior, is that the question?

12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE: Yes. Yeah.

13 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: I think we'll

14 have to get that data for you.

15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE: Okay. I

16 would like to get that, because the thing

17 is -- the issue is --

18 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Assemblywoman,

19 Assemblywoman, I'm sorry, we're going to move

20 on to the next speaker.

21 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE: Okay, thank

22 you.

23 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: But I just want

24 to remind members that if you have questions

1 that we don't have an opportunity to answer,

2 we'd be happy to -- I know our witnesses

3 would be happy to respond to questions that

4 the committee will send in writing. So I'd

5 just have everybody keep that in mind.

6 Our next questioner?

7 SENATOR LaVALLE: Are there any other

8 Senators that have questions?

9 (No response.)

10 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Next,

11 Assemblymember Cathy Nolan, chair of

12 Education.

13 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: She's not here.

14 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: I think she's

15 stretching her legs.

16 Assemblywoman Crystal Peoples-Stokes

17 for a question.

18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES: Thank

19 you. And good morning, good afternoon,

20 whatever time it is now.

21 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Good morning.

22 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES: I

23 appreciate you -- (microphone off). I'd just

24 say that I'm encouraged and very much looking

1 forward to your tenure here because of your

2 background in business.

3 I see the college and university

4 system as an economic driver in the community

5 I live in, and I believe in everybody else's

6 community as well, and also see it as the

7 creator of the future workforce. And so I

8 think combining those two pieces, academics

9 and economics, you bring a value to our

10 system that I surely look forward to seeing

11 you further engage in.

12 I just have two questions. One is on

13 the funding for existing programs. How is

14 that decided which existing programs will be

15 continued, will receive continued funding?

16 Is there some sort of metric that looks at

17 outcomes? Do we know that we're getting a

18 good result as a result of the funding for,

19 say, the Teacher Opportunity Corps?

20 That's just an example of one.

21 There's also resources for the National Board

22 of Professional Teaching Standards

23 certification grant, high-needs nursing

24 program, and actually opportunity programs.

1 Is there anyone looking at outcomes for these

2 initiatives?

3 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: Yeah, there is.

4 The provost's office at SUNY system has those

5 outcomes. We can provide that data. The

6 provost's office has that data, and we can

7 provide that to you.

8 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: And if I may

9 amplify that just for a minute.

10 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: Yup.

11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES: So

12 you're saying you do have data on the

13 outcomes for these initiatives that are being

14 re-funded in the budget.

15 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: Yeah. Yup.

16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES: So

17 secondly, on the Teacher Opportunity Corps,

18 is there any amount of that grant or those

19 dollars that are going to be used to look at

20 diversity in the classroom? I know there's

21 been a study by the Education Trust Fund.

22 There's probably any number of other studies,

23 as well as the My Brother's Keeper commission

24 last year went across the state last year

100

1 talking to young men, and it was always

2 brought up that there is an issue with the

3 lack of diversity in the classroom. So is

4 there any specificity with the Teacher

5 Opportunity Corps that looks at diversity in

6 the classroom?

7 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: The Teacher

8 Opportunity Corps is a State Education

9 Department-managed program, not a

10 SUNY-managed program. But we do have

11 diversity programs at SUNY that we invest in.

12 I don't have the -- there's a recurring

13 budget in the SUNY office plus a $3 million

14 program that we have that funds proposals

15 from our campuses to do diversity programs on

16 their campuses.

17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES: I'm

18 sorry, would you repeat that one more time?

19 You said there's what?

20 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: We have a

21 diversity office at SUNY System, and we have

22 $3 million which we administer through a

23 competitive grant program to support proposal

24 programs at our campuses that support

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1 diversity initiatives. And we particularly

2 look for ones that we can scale across the

3 system.

4 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES: Okay.

5 Well, I appreciate that.

6 Is there a relationship between the

7 EOCs, which I'm noticing have been cut, and

8 community colleges? It would seem that that

9 would be a natural stream or a natural

10 pipeline towards EOC, community college, a

11 four-year college, and so on. So is there a

12 connection between the two? Are there

13 regular conversations about how do we make

14 this pipeline go smoothly? And what are the

15 numbers on that?

16 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: First of all,

17 absolutely, there's a regular conversation

18 going.

19 And we can do better. I've visited

20 some of the EOC as well as the community

21 colleges in the regions. They are working

22 together. In some places, for example, in

23 Rochester, they're in the same buildings. So

24 they are very tightly connected. I think we

102

1 can always do better and improve that.

2 I did want to comment just on the

3 diversity program. I know a few years ago

4 that at each campus we've established an

5 Office of Diversity and Inclusion Excellence.

6 So at each individual campus, we are working

7 on diversity as well as programs that Eileen

8 McLoughlin mentioned across the system.

9 Having said that, I think one of the

10 areas that you pointed to -- and I would like

11 to amplify, if I may -- is that the

12 importance of role models, people in the

13 classroom that look like the students in the

14 demographics that we're teaching, so that

15 they can look at that person and say, I too

16 could be a professor or I too could be an

17 engineer or I too could be a lawyer or a

18 public servant or any particular area that

19 they want to pursue.

20 It turns out that our faculty is about

21 5 to say 7 percent underrepresented minority

22 faculty. The high across the public

23 institutions is probably as high as 15

24 percent and as low as, you know, a few

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1 percent. We need to do better.

2 And so one of the things that I'm

3 looking at as we invest in full-time faculty

4 is how do we diversify the faculty in the

5 classroom in order to be those role models

6 for our students and our citizens of the

7 State of New York.

8 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES: Thank

9 you.

10 SENATOR LaVALLE: Senator Tedisco.

11 SENATOR TEDISCO: Thank you for your

12 testimony, first of all.

13 I wasn't here -- I'm sorry I was a

14 little bit late; I had a committee meeting.

15 I don't know if you've talked about

16 retention, staying in New York State for

17 students or any research that's been done for

18 those who graduate from our two-year colleges

19 and our four-year schools and get degrees

20 here. And how are we doing on that?

21 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: So I can respond

22 to that. And we didn't talk about it, so

23 thank you for the question.

24 Four years after graduating from the

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1 SUNY system, 73 percent of our graduates are

2 still living and working in the State of New

3 York. So it's a pretty high percentage.

4 SENATOR TEDISCO: Of all students who

5 graduate, two-year and four-year?

6 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: And that's

7 systemwide. I think we can probably get you

8 the breakdown from four years to

9 state-operated to technical and to community

10 colleges.

11 But across the whole system,

12 73 percent of our students, once they

13 graduate, four years later are still living

14 and working in the State of New York.

15 SENATOR TEDISCO: And how long do they

16 usually stay in the State of New York?

17 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: That's a good

18 question. I'll have to get back to you on

19 that. I know at least for four years. I

20 think that first year it's maybe around

21 80 percent.

22 SR. VICE CHANCELLOR MEGNA: It's four

23 years after graduation.

24 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Four years after

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1 graduation. And I think four years is an

2 important metric, because folks have always

3 told me that you put permanent roots down

4 after two years in a place. So I think that

5 that's a -- it would be interesting to look

6 longer term.

7 SENATOR TEDISCO: Yeah. What would

8 you think of a concept of a -- let's say a

9 graduate of a two-year school, for the first

10 five years we said up to $20,000 a year, you

11 paid no taxes on for five years in a row?

12 That would be a hundred thousand dollars. If

13 they made $50,000 a year, they'd still pay

14 taxes on $30,000.

15 For four-year graduates here, we'd say

16 for five years, you could make up to $50,000,

17 you'd pay no taxes on that for five years.

18 Because I agree with you, you said if you

19 stay here for four, five or six years, you

20 buy a house, you get a job, you build a

21 business, you get married, you have roots,

22 like you said, you're more than likely going

23 to stay here.

24 Now, those are just some of the

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1 numbers that I've been rolling around in my

2 head. But, you know, we have the numbers man

3 over here. I wondered, is any kind of

4 concept like that something that could even

5 make us better in terms of retaining

6 students? Or is that something that is not

7 worthwhile looking at?

8 SR. VICE CHANCELLOR MEGNA: Senator, I

9 think any ideas and incentives to keep people

10 in this state are worth looking at. I think

11 I would want to talk to the tax folks about

12 how effective they thought that would be.

13 SENATOR TEDISCO: Thank you.

14 Did you have something?

15 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: No, I just wanted

16 to -- I was thinking. You could tell. You

17 know, what I was considering is -- going back

18 to some of the numbers that our CFO

19 mentioned -- and that is retention is very

20 critical. So we lose -- even though we might

21 be number two across the U.S. in system and

22 be at a 65 percent six-year graduation rate,

23 that still means a third of our students are

24 not graduating.

107

1 And so I think it's a question of

2 we've got to -- and we are; with some of the

3 targeted programs, we look at the reasons for

4 that. And so some of it, as I mentioned

5 before, are other nonacademic issues. One in

6 five women going to college are single moms.

7 So this is one of the reasons we feel very

8 strongly about supporting with childcare.

9 I mean, there are some of the other

10 issues -- the emergency funding program that

11 we're piloting -- we're trying to get at the

12 root of how can we retain as many of the

13 other 35 percent who don't make it through in

14 six years. So that's what I was thinking of

15 as you were looking and saying did you want

16 to say something.

17 SENATOR TEDISCO: Appreciate it.

18 Thank you.

19 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Assemblywoman

20 Nolan.

21 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Thank you.

22 Thank you. Such a happy day -- (microphone

23 dysfunction). I have one of those loud

24 voices -- how about that, better? Okay,

108

1 thank you very much.

2 It is such a very happy day to welcome

3 you, Chancellor, on a day when women lead and

4 that Helene Weinstein and Cathy Young have

5 really made history today. I feel so happy

6 about it, I had to be here.

7 I have the good fortune of chairing

8 the Education Committee, and love what I do.

9 I'm a happy SUNY mom, first-year SUNY mom,

10 sitting with another happy SUNY mom.

11 I want to give a shout out to Nancy

12 Zimpher, because she I think really did

13 change SUNY's recruitment policy in the city.

14 When I got to Albany, I always felt that was

15 a problem, that they weren't recruiting in

16 the city. And I think now that you do.

17 I want to give a shout-out to

18 Alfred -- which is not the school my kid goes

19 to, but they're doing so much recruiting in

20 schools in my district. I'm very, very

21 grateful to them for that.

22 But there's always that but, you know,

23 that happens in these hearings, so this is my

24 "but." First of all, I'm happy Chancellor

109

1 McCall is here, because, Carl, Deborah and I

2 are still waiting for that meeting to talk

3 about the Charter School Institute. We're

4 very unhappy. The Assembly takes the issue

5 that they do not have the authority to do

6 what they did.

7 So I don't want to saddle you, you're

8 new, some of this predates you. But there's

9 a lot of concern. And I'm so happy that

10 Senator Stavisky brought it up. So what I'd

11 like to do is not go over the past, because

12 that's on Carl, not on you.

13 (Laughter.)

14 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: But I'd like to

15 have you talk a little bit about the teacher

16 training programs. Because we've heard so

17 much talk -- and everyone loves those big

18 muscular -- you know, the engineering and the

19 pharmacy and the STEM. Meanwhile, you are

20 training more teachers than almost anyone in

21 America. But somehow -- and I can even argue

22 it's because it's a female-dominated

23 profession, but we won't say that today --

24 somehow the teacher training programs are --

110

1 you know, they're there, and there's a lot of

2 people in them, but you never hear anybody

3 talk about them. And so I'd like to hear a

4 little bit from you about what your

5 priorities are in this year's budget to

6 support outstanding teacher training programs

7 at SUNY schools. Not undercut them with

8 crazy 100 hours is enough to be a teacher

9 nonsense. We can't hold you for that, like I

10 said. But I have heard from just about every

11 one of the people -- I hear from people who

12 teach in every one of your teacher training

13 programs, in real concern and panic at the

14 watering down of teacher quality that your

15 SUNY charter people did to that charter

16 school program.

17 So what are you doing to support your

18 existing programs? And can you tell us a

19 little bit about them? Because not one word

20 has been said today from you about the

21 teacher training programs. Everything is

22 always about the things that cost a fortune.

23 But the teacher training programs are about

24 educating people for our children that I deal

111

1 with in the Education Committee, K-12, for

2 the future.

3 So -- but we welcome you on your happy

4 day.

5 (Laughter.)

6 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Wow. Thank you,

7 Assemblywoman. I hear the passion in your

8 voice, just -- which I love. And as you may

9 know, I'm also a teacher and I taught in the

10 classroom for, oh, maybe 25 years as a

11 professor, so I share that. My family, five

12 girls and two boys, all of them were teachers

13 on the girls side, and the two boys lost

14 their way and became lawyers. I didn't

15 really say that, did I? Okay, anyway. But

16 I'm very passionate about teaching.

17 And so I wanted to share a little bit

18 with what we've started to think about and

19 do. I mean, it's still early days; I'm five

20 months into my term here. I have met with

21 all the deans of the education schools, I

22 actually invited them in. Not all were able

23 to attend, of course. And we sat down and we

24 talked about it. We talked about what does

112

1 it take to educate the teacher of the future,

2 what are the kind of skill sets.

3 And this is something that the Faculty

4 Senate is very concerned about. We had a

5 Faculty Senate meeting last Friday in Utica

6 that I attended, and one of the resolutions

7 was how do we define the liberal arts degree

8 of the 21st century. So these are

9 conversations -- you first have to start to

10 get to know what's going on before you make

11 any particular change. I'm very supportive,

12 met with the deans, talked about the

13 programs.

14 And some of the things we started to

15 talk about, it started to kind of connect the

16 dots, that you've got faculty members getting

17 Ph.D.s and graduate degrees in the liberal

18 arts who aren't able to get faculty

19 positions. And so I commented, can we

20 prepare those Ph.D. students to teach in our

21 K-12 programs? And what would that look

22 like?

23 So that's one area where we're trying

24 to look at, how do we increase and continue

113

1 to train and better prepare our teachers.

2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: How much teacher

3 training programs do you have, and how many

4 students do you have in them?

5 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Let's see, we

6 have, what, 19 schools -- I think there are

7 19 deans, so it must be 19 schools of

8 education. And as you said, we train and

9 educate the majority of the teachers in the

10 State of New York.

11 Continuing on one of the things that I

12 mentioned, I've also met with the Charter

13 Institute. And I said, can we get those two

14 groups together to talk about what quality

15 means and what we're doing together. And so

16 they are meeting now. And that hadn't

17 happened before. So you take each step as we

18 go along, and I'll look forward to -- well

19 before next year, I'd love to get together

20 with you individually and talk about what

21 we're doing.

22 But these are the first couple of

23 steps that I think are very important. And

24 so I think out of these conversations will

114

1 come creative ideas to further the

2 preparation of our teachers to be even more

3 successful in the classroom.

4 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

5 Assemblyman Stirpe.

6 ASSEMBLYMAN STIRPE: Good morning.

7 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Good morning.

8 ASSEMBLYMAN STIRPE: When we met back

9 in November, you gave a little presentation

10 and you talked about one of your goals was to

11 double the amount of research and development

12 that flows through SUNY.

13 And, you know, you having been in that

14 world a little bit in the past, do you have a

15 specific plan of action of how to do that?

16 Any organizations you know about that you're

17 going to? And how might that help SUNY in

18 general during times of government financial

19 stress?

20 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Well, thank you

21 for that question. And you're right, in

22 November -- and I repeated it again yesterday

23 at my State of the University System,

24 broadened it a bit to talk about really not

115

1 just research in terms of external funded

2 research dollars, but really doubling our

3 scholarly work, our start-ups, our research,

4 our outreach and our engagement.

5 And so I'm very passionate about that.

6 When anybody says double, you know, you ought

7 to ask how long is that going to take, right?

8 It could take 50 years, it could take one

9 year. I've set a goal for the next decade to

10 at least double.

11 And so then you look at -- in order to

12 be successful, you need a strategy, which is

13 what I think you're asking and where are you

14 going to put those investments. And so one

15 of the areas that I believe that the State of

16 New York and SUNY needs to be front-runner

17 in -- and that's going to be in artificial

18 intelligence and augmented intelligence,

19 because that will affect every single

20 industry in the State of New York.

21 Automation -- a lot has been said

22 about the number of jobs that automation will

23 disrupt and already has disrupted. It's

24 actually entire industries that will

116

1 disappear. When you have 57 Fortune 500

2 countries that are headquartered in New York,

3 that's the future of the State of New York.

4 So I think in terms of us being

5 targeted and strategic about where we place

6 our investments. And so the major ones are

7 going to be education, healthcare, of course,

8 and it's also going to be understanding how

9 multidisciplinary and educated the students

10 of the future and the workforce needs to be.

11 So it's going to be liberal arts that

12 understand how cognitive computing is going

13 to impact the ability for them to be creative

14 and successful, and how STEM students are

15 going to need to have persuasive oral and

16 written skills as well as a concept of

17 history and politics and philosophy. So it's

18 a new way of thinking about education.

19 I think that these ideas are

20 compelling. They're not just mine, they're

21 already being done throughout SUNY. We are a

22 leader in a lot of these areas. So advanced

23 materials -- it just came out in the paper

24 that there's been over a thousand or 1100

117

1 patents in the Capital Region alone. Seven

2 hundred are from Global Foundries and IBM

3 working in the facilities that created that

4 5-nanometer transistor.

5 We've got to build on those. We build

6 on those -- what people want to invest in is

7 not just an individual anymore, because they

8 understand that the problems are very

9 complicated and you need a team. So we're

10 going to build teams, and we're going to

11 build on the teams we already have, and we're

12 going to connect the dots.

13 So one of the strategies that we've

14 put in place is that we've started these

15 workshops across SUNY, all inclusive, invited

16 people, we've done them in AI, we've done

17 them in opioid abuse, and get the best

18 researchers together to talk about where is

19 the future going. And then through these

20 investment programs, we will seed money in

21 order to get early data, because that's what

22 makes our proposals then successful.

23 And then the last thing, I've met with

24 the Distinguished Faculty. We have a

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1 thousand Distinguished Faculty members, and

2 over half of them have said they still want

3 to be active, they still want to help us. So

4 I propose, well, why don't you help review

5 the proposals? Because they'll be colleagues

6 like yourself. And studies have shown that

7 when you have somebody review the proposal,

8 especially our Distinguished Faculty is more

9 than just somebody, the chances of getting

10 that funded go up by a factor of two to four.

11 So that's just one idea of what we're

12 working with right now. And so I'm pretty

13 passionate, as you can tell, about this. I

14 think that it's going to help be that

15 economic engine in the future. And just

16 remember, every dollar that's invested in

17 SUNY has a return on investment of about $5,

18 in addition to the social and economic return

19 on investment. So we can double our research

20 and go from a billion to 2 billion in this

21 next decade. We're going to increase the

22 number of jobs, the number of patents, the

23 number of start-ups, the impact and the

24 outreach in our communities.

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1 ASSEMBLYMAN STIRPE: Thank you.

2 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Assemblywoman

3 Glick.

4 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Thank you very

5 much. Just a few follow-ups.

6 The area of student fees. The cost of

7 going to school, most people understand it's

8 tuition, room and board. But then there's

9 this entire area of student fees. And that

10 is generally not covered by -- it's certainly

11 not covered by TAP.

12 And so I have two questions about

13 that. Are those set by individual campuses?

14 And whether the system looks at it and

15 whether what has been a growing trajectory of

16 larger and larger -- is there any thought or

17 consideration of across the system of either

18 standardizing certain aspects of it or trying

19 to figure out how to fold some of them into a

20 tuition so that, for some students, that too

21 would be covered by TAP?

22 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: I'll ask Eileen

23 to give some of the details on that, but I

24 will say that we are looking at it at the

120

1 system level.

2 And maybe you can comment about how

3 the fees are set at the campuses and at the

4 system.

5 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: So the campuses

6 do not set fees on their own, they do come to

7 System for us to approve, and we do have a

8 process, which I can give you the details on

9 where they cannot increase those fees above

10 what's called the HEPI index, which is the

11 Higher Ed Price Index, without demonstrating

12 need and support for the particular service

13 they're trying to collect the fee for. And

14 part of that demonstration has to include

15 student input, that the students want these

16 services.

17 So we can share a very brief summary

18 with you of what that process is.

19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: That would be

20 helpful.

21 SR. VICE CHANCELLOR MEGNA: I think,

22 Assemblywoman, there's also an issue of

23 uniformity -- you raised it -- across the

24 campuses that probably, as part of that,

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1 should be looked at; how we can kind of get

2 everyone on the same footing.

3 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: I look forward

4 to having a more detailed conversation on

5 that.

6 First of all, let me say that I'm very

7 pleased to hear that you're committed to

8 doing more with renewables and retrofits that

9 are cleaner. And obviously it's an enormous

10 payback if we can do that. It's not just

11 payback in dollars, which we're always

12 concerned about, but also in making the

13 campuses cleaner and healthier, for them and

14 the surrounding community.

15 So at some point if we could get a

16 little bit more of what your plan is or where

17 you're targeting. I don't expect that today.

18 But I would like to understand where you're

19 headed and to be somewhat certain that that

20 is geographically balanced. I know that

21 Oswego did a tremendous job in their new

22 science building, and that is a great model

23 for the rest of SUNY. So I'd like to

24 understand more where that's headed on your

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1 facilities.

2 VICE CHANCELLOR HAELEN: Yeah, we can

3 get back to you on that.

4 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Finally, I do

5 want to have a little bit more of a

6 conversation at some point about the theory

7 behind differential tuition.

8 Fifty percent of your students are not

9 going to school with assistance. And so I

10 would not want to see a student in one

11 school -- I know that this has been a

12 long-standing issue, long before you arrived

13 on the scene -- that the university centers

14 have always felt that they have to support a

15 tremendous overhead and a wide range of

16 programs, and so they want to charge more.

17 To some extent, they are charging a little

18 bit more.

19 I don't know what you're thinking

20 about in terms of how you would determine who

21 would get to have a differential bump, but I

22 would not want us to see students in the

23 future decide that they cannot go to Buffalo

24 because it's an extra few hundred dollars,

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1 and they make their choices and we lose out

2 on perhaps somebody who could in fact be the

3 next Nobel Prize winner down the road because

4 for the want of a few hundred dollars.

5 Now, I did have a conversation with an

6 enormously wealthy human being who said, I

7 can't imagine that for $200 or $300, someone

8 would choose not to go to a particular

9 school. And I said, Well, in your world that

10 is true, but in the rest of the state where

11 you need to see -- you know, $25,000 is a

12 good salary in a lot of small towns. And

13 that I presume was, you know, like the fee at

14 the golf course for membership.

15 So that is a concern that I have

16 around that issue.

17 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: So thank you for

18 your concern. Where we really want to focus

19 looking at differential tuition right now is

20 in border states. So our schools like

21 Fredonia, who border some other type of

22 states, to be able to charge more than the

23 in-state tuition rate but a little bit less

24 than our current out-of-state rate.

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1 We can get you the data on this, but

2 many New Yorkers leave the State of New York

3 to go to Pennsylvania or New Jersey or some

4 of our bordering states to get their

5 education there, because our neighboring

6 states are offering more competitive tuition

7 rates to them.

8 So we would like to be able to

9 position our border-state campuses in that

10 market, as well as attract students into the

11 State of New York, that's one.

12 And then the other area we're looking

13 at is our graduate and professional master's

14 programs. So these are our professional

15 master's programs where the return on

16 investment for that individual student is

17 pretty tremendous. And we have some

18 specialized graduate programs that really

19 cost us more, so if we can have some level of

20 differentiation on some of these specialized

21 programs.

22 To get back to your tuition and fees,

23 I just wanted to also let you know that the

24 average fee across the system is about

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1 $2,000, and our tuition and fees in total is

2 still among the lowest in the nation.

3 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

4 And before we conclude your first

5 testimony before the joint budget committees,

6 I had two quick questions.

7 In the Governor's proposed budget I

8 see that the funding for the community

9 college childcare centers, the SUNY community

10 college childcare centers, is reduced by $1.1

11 million. And I was just wondering who

12 utilizes the services. Is there a reduction

13 in the use of the services that would warrant

14 a reduction in the dollars to support these

15 centers?

16 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: I didn't quite

17 get that question.

18 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: I apologize,

19 Chairperson. Oh, is it childcare, did you

20 say?

21 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: The childcare

22 centers. The Executive Budget shows a

23 $1.1 million reduction.

24 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: So as I mentioned

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1 before, one in five women attending college

2 are single mothers. So this will be

3 difficult for women that need childcare in

4 order to pursue advancement in terms of a

5 degree and also in terms of their life.

6 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: And would

7 additional support for the childcare centers

8 enable additional women with children to be

9 able to partake of the community college

10 experience?

11 SUNY CFO McLOUGHLIN: Yeah, we can get

12 that data to you, how much more children and

13 parents we can serve if we got increased

14 funding, and what the impact will be on the

15 reduction.

16 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: And just -- I

17 know you spoke about this change of dollars

18 for the SUNY hospitals from operational to

19 capital. In your testimony you said you were

20 working with the Division of Budget to

21 mitigate the operational impact.

22 And I was just wondering what

23 specifically your conversations have been

24 around mitigating that negative impact.

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1 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Go ahead, Bob, if

2 you'd like to.

3 SR. VICE CHANCELLOR MEGNA: I think,

4 Assemblywoman, there are alternative ways to

5 achieve the savings that I think would not

6 have an immediate or as devastating an impact

7 on the hospitals.

8 And I think their belief was that,

9 again, this operating/capital substitution

10 would not have an impact on the hospitals. I

11 think we believe that it would have a

12 significant impact on the hospitals, and

13 we're providing them three or four

14 alternatives that they can look at to see if

15 they work better.

16 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: And could you

17 share, subsequent to the hearing, some

18 additional information about the specific

19 impact to each of the SUNY hospitals of loss

20 of operational funds?

21 SR. VICE CHANCELLOR MEGNA:

22 Absolutely.

23 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you very

24 much for testifying, and we're going to move

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1 on to our second witness, hopefully.

2 CHANCELLOR JOHNSON: Thank you very

3 much. Appreciate the time.

4 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: As we move, we

5 won't be as long.

6 Our next witness is the chancellor of

7 the City University of New York, James

8 Milliken.

9 If we could take conversations outside

10 so we can continue the hearing.

11 Chancellor, thank you for being here.

12 You can begin.

13 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Thank you.

14 Morning? Morning, yeah, still morning.

15 Members of the committee, guests, I'm

16 James B. Milliken, I'm the chancellor of the

17 City University of New York. This is my

18 fourth time to appear before you to discuss

19 the goals and priorities of the City

20 University of New York and the state's

21 budget.

22 I want to thank my friend and new

23 colleague Chancellor Johnson for joining us

24 in higher education in New York and for doing

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1 what Chancellor Zimpher used to do, which is

2 to take all the tough questions for about two

3 hours from this group before I take the hot

4 seat.

5 I'm joined by several of my

6 colleagues, and I'll introduce them at an

7 appropriate time if there are questions that

8 I need some assistance with.

9 So I just want to start by saying

10 something that I know you all know, and it's

11 evident from the questions that you asked

12 during the testimony of Chancellor Johnson,

13 and that is that despite the skepticism that

14 we read about, astonishingly enough to me,

15 about the continuing value of higher

16 education in this country, there has never

17 been a time when it's more important. Most

18 of the new jobs created require education

19 beyond high school. So the opportunity that

20 we provide as a nation, as a state, and as a

21 city in New York depend on higher education.

22 I'm a firm believer that talent is

23 evenly distributed across all areas of

24 demography. It does not depend on race,

130

1 ethnicity, wealth, or national origin. But

2 opportunity is not equally distributed. And

3 one of the ways in this country that we

4 address that inequality is through higher

5 education, and CUNY is one of the great

6 engines of social and economic mobility in

7 this country that allow us to address that.

8 So I want to thank this Legislature --

9 it was mentioned earlier by Chancellor

10 Johnson that New York is in a better position

11 than many states in terms of the public

12 support for higher education. That's

13 absolutely true. The TAP program in New York

14 is known across the country as an effective

15 way of supporting low-income students. Add

16 to that the Governor's Excelsior program from

17 last year, again in this year's budget and

18 increasing the income eligibility, which adds

19 additional members of the middle class to the

20 ranks of students that are supported by the

21 State of New York and able to attend college.

22 So all of this support has helped CUNY

23 to advance its essential mission of access,

24 of inclusion, of high quality, and makes me

131

1 -- and I believe the members of my board and

2 my presidents -- optimistic about the future

3 of the City University of New York. And if

4 you haven't seen it, I hope that you will see

5 some of our billboards, our advertisements.

6 Those of you who are on the subway may have

7 already seen it.

8 In light of the attention that CUNY

9 has gotten over the last year as the

10 unparalleled leader of social and economic

11 mobility in this country, we have decided to

12 demonstrate that recognition through our new

13 marketing effort, which unabashedly and I

14 think quite deservedly refers to CUNY as the

15 greatest urban university in the world. And

16 if you have any questions about why that's

17 the case, I'd be happy to get into that

18 later.

19 Nothing is more important to the

20 economic strength of the state and to

21 individual opportunity than having a talented

22 workforce to attract investment and good jobs

23 and to foster the innovation necessary to be

24 competitive. And increasingly, as I

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1 mentioned, college education is essential to

2 that.

3 High-growth industries need employees

4 with not only technological skills, but they

5 also need a workforce that is nimble, that

6 collaborates effectively, and that functions

7 in different cultures and languages. In

8 short, they need talent, they need skills,

9 and they need diversity, and that is what

10 CUNY offers on a scale that no other

11 university in the country can match.

12 I know that you have seen and are

13 familiar with the landmark study that was

14 released just about a year ago from a group

15 of Stanford and other economists with

16 actually an amazing amount of research, with

17 30 million IRS records and 30 million student

18 enrollment records. So this groundbreaking

19 research demonstrated really for the first

20 time which institutions across this country

21 are the ones that are most effectively

22 propelling students from the lowest quintile

23 of wealth, the lowest-wealth students, to the

24 middle class and beyond.

133

1 So the good news is while not every

2 institution is doing a terrific job of

3 that -- not every institution is enrolling,

4 in my view, enough low-income and

5 underrepresented students -- of the top 10 in

6 the country, CUNY occupied six of the top 10

7 spots in terms of moving students from the

8 lowest quintile of wealth to the middle

9 class. CUNY sends more students from

10 low-income to the middle class than the eight

11 Ivy Leagues, Duke, MIT, Chicago, and Stanford

12 combined.

13 So this is a badge of honor, I think,

14 for New York and speaks well of support from

15 the Governor and this Legislature for the

16 programs at CUNY that make this kind of

17 social and economic mobility possible.

18 Our students are exceptional. And if

19 you ask me about them, I'll give you specific

20 examples. But I want to keep my comments now

21 brief and get into questions, but I can't

22 move on without giving responsibility for the

23 great achievements that CUNY has made to our

24 outstanding faculty. And we look to you, to

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1 the state, and we look to the city for

2 continuing help to allow us to recruit and

3 retain the highest-quality faculty who make

4 possible the work that we do with our

5 students, make possible the research that's

6 done at CUNY, make possible our outreach

7 programs.

8 I'm particularly proud of the fact

9 that since I arrived at the City University

10 of New York almost four years ago, we have

11 strengthened our faculty considerably while

12 increasing diversity markedly among the

13 faculty. Almost 44 percent of new faculty

14 hires last year were from underrepresented

15 groups, which is a continuation of an upward

16 trend. The result is the percentage of

17 minority faculty members has reached an

18 historic high at CUNY of 36 percent today.

19 It's not enough, but it is progress, and

20 we're moving strongly in the right direction.

21 Also, I listened earlier to the

22 discussion of adjunct and full-time faculty.

23 I'm sure we'll have an opportunity to mention

24 that, but I do want to mention that I am very

135

1 pleased that we have been able to

2 significantly improve terms for our adjunct

3 faculty over the last few years, including

4 through our work with the Professional Staff

5 Congress, including health insurance for

6 eligible adjuncts and greater job security in

7 the last contract that we settled with

8 providing for three-year appointments for

9 eligible adjuncts.

10 So the investment in the Executive

11 Budget that's been made will help further

12 advance our strategies, and I believe there's

13 compelling evidence that the investment in

14 CUNY is paying off dramatically. A couple of

15 data points. Last year we graduated 52,000

16 students, the most in the history of the City

17 University of New York, and we had a freshman

18 enrollment last year that was at a record.

19 We had an applications increase last year of

20 almost 10 percent, and this year an over

21 10 percent increase, year to year, over that

22 all-time high last year in terms of

23 applications to CUNY.

24 So we are growing, and that is a good

136

1 thing. One of the most important elements of

2 our strategy is what we do when those

3 students arrive, and that is to help them be

4 successful and complete their college

5 education on time. And part of our new

6 strategic plan is a focus on success and

7 increasing the graduation rates at the

8 community college and the baccalaureate

9 level.

10 There is a new university-wide culture

11 of completion across CUNY. Nothing could be

12 more important than students taking as many

13 courses as they can reasonably manage to

14 graduate on time. We talk about the cost of

15 education all the time. The greatest single

16 way to reduce the cost of education is to cut

17 the number of years that students are

18 pursuing their education. They're a fixed

19 cost that students pay every year they're

20 pursuing -- so if we can reduce from five

21 years to four years the time in school, we've

22 just cut 20 percent of the cost of a

23 student's education.

24 So I am very pleased that our

137

1 presidents, our faculty, have taken this

2 challenge on and are working on strategies to

3 help our students increase graduation rates.

4 So an example. Last year the number

5 of full-time students taking a 15-credit-hour

6 load was 31 percent. This year it's

7 41 percent, a 10 percent increase in one year

8 of the students taking a 15-a-year credit

9 load, which will keep them on track to

10 graduate in two and four years.

11 We are on track to meet the ambitious

12 goal that we announced last year with our new

13 strategic plan, and that is to double the

14 graduation rates of our community colleges.

15 Double them.

16 The urban community college graduation

17 rates in this country are a scandal. They

18 are way too low, and they have been too low

19 at CUNY, but we are now ahead of the national

20 average -- and over a five-year period, we

21 will double the graduation rates and be the

22 national leader. There are already several

23 states, including California, Ohio, Virginia,

24 Tennessee, that are adopting CUNY's

138

1 strategies to increase their graduation rates

2 at their community colleges, and we're

3 working with them.

4 The good news for this progress is

5 that the impact, the disproportionate impact

6 at CUNY that increasing graduation rates will

7 have on low-income, immigrant, and

8 underrepresented groups who represent by far

9 the dominant share of CUNY's enrollment.

10 A second element of the plan is to

11 increase our ability to help students launch

12 great careers. We own the space, we believe,

13 with employers, preparing our students

14 adequately for the workforce, giving them the

15 experiential learning and internships they

16 need to increase their networks, to increase

17 their performance in school -- which research

18 demonstrates that it does -- have them become

19 acquainted with businesses, not-for-profits

20 where they want to work, and give them a

21 positive step to employment.

22 So we are spending a great deal of

23 effort, have raised a significant amount of

24 private funding to increase our internship

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1 programs and our workforce preparation

2 programs.

3 With regard to the specifics of the

4 Executive Budget, there's a $70 million

5 increase for the senior colleges, which is

6 critical to our progress and includes

7 mandatory fringe benefit increases which

8 would be essential to us in the future. It

9 also includes a second year of the use, the

10 promotion, the development of free online

11 textbooks and course materials, which is one

12 of those elements of the cost of college we

13 have traditionally had the least control over

14 and has probably increased at a rate higher

15 than almost any other element of cost.

16 This is an exciting story for both

17 CUNY and SUNY, and I believe a part of the

18 future of maintaining costs will be reducing

19 significantly the amount of textbooks and

20 course materials, and our faculty have taken

21 on this assignment with great enthusiasm.

22 The Executive Budget also includes

23 adoption of the DREAM Act in New York. And I

24 want to say a word about this, because this

140

1 is something that is extremely important to

2 me personally and something that our board

3 has always advocated in favor of. So

4 everybody knows about the intense national

5 debate, not yet over -- hopefully will be

6 successfully over soon -- to renew the DACA

7 program. But I don't know that everyone is

8 as familiar, and I think as policymakers in

9 the state you should be familiar with the

10 actual impact that the program has on

11 students.

12 So students -- there may be 5,000 or

13 6,000 undocumented students at CUNY, and

14 there are a large number of DACA students at

15 CUNY, between a thousand and 2,000, not

16 eligible for any public support -- TAP, Pell,

17 any other -- that their high-school

18 classmates are eligible for.

19 But we have pursued aggressively

20 private funding to be able to close that gap,

21 and we have a robust partnership with

22 TheDream.US, which is the brainchild of Don

23 Graham, a former publisher of the Washington

24 Post. When I arrived at CUNY four years ago,

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1 there were 30 students that were receiving

2 TheDream.US scholarships allowing

3 undocumented students to have their tuition

4 paid for. Since that time, almost 800 CUNY

5 students have gone to school because of

6 TheDream.US program.

7 Last year there were 475 Dream.US DACA

8 students enrolled at CUNY, and these students

9 do tremendously well. The retention rate

10 year to year for our DACA students who were

11 receiving Dream.US scholarships is

12 90 percent. It is higher than their US

13 citizen peers in the classroom. Of these

14 475 scholarship winners, I mentioned last

15 year 70 percent maintained a GPA of over 3.0.

16 These students are mentors, leaders in

17 student government, club officers, and

18 valedictorians. So I can't say enough about

19 how important it is to us at CUNY, to our

20 students, to the community in New York that

21 the Governor has once again advocated for the

22 DREAM Act, and we hope that the Legislature

23 will support that.

24 I mentioned the second phase of

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1 Excelsior, increasing the income eligibility

2 level to add even more students to the group

3 that will receive it. I think another very

4 important initiative this year, the No

5 Student Goes Hungry initiative of the

6 Governor's, something that we at CUNY have

7 been concerned about for some time -- our own

8 faculty at the School of Public Health have

9 done significant research on this and

10 identified food insecurity as one of the key

11 factors for students dropping out and

12 underperforming in school.

13 And about half of our campuses have

14 food pantries now, but we hope to increase it

15 to all. We have a number of campuses also

16 that have single-stop offices that help

17 students with all of the benefits to which

18 they are entitled already and may not be

19 getting, and that's something that we have

20 continually sought additional investment in

21 so we can expand it to all of our campuses --

22 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Chancellor, I

23 don't mean to interrupt -- I wonder if you

24 could just wrap up, because we'd really like

143

1 to start to get to some questions. The

2 members are very anxious --

3 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: I was hoping to

4 filibuster completely and then everybody

5 would be going to lunch.

6 (Laughter.)

7 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: So far you've

8 done a good job.

9 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Okay. So you've

10 caught me. Even though this is your first

11 year of chairing here -- Senator LaValle must

12 have mentioned something to you about my

13 testimony.

14 A quick word on the capital budget.

15 Very pleased, second year in a row,

16 $284 million in critical maintenance for the

17 senior colleges, hugely important. CUNY,

18 like SUNY, has an aging capital

19 infrastructure and we need this investment,

20 and the same thing with the community

21 colleges.

22 We need to be able to use our space

23 effectively. We have added 40,000 students

24 to CUNY over the last decade, which is the

144

1 size of the University of Michigan, without

2 significant new space. So our capital

3 request also includes the opportunity to

4 expand to support this group.

5 So on behalf of the Board of Trustees

6 of the City University of New York, my

7 colleagues at the colleges, and myself, we

8 thank you for your investment, and I look

9 forward to the opportunity to address any

10 questions you may have.

11 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

12 We'll move on to Assemblywoman Glick.

13 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Thank you.

14 Thank you very much, Chancellor. A

15 few questions.

16 I know that because CUNY is a more

17 compact set of schools, you have had for

18 quite some time a large number of students

19 who have gone to school with appropriate

20 supports. The student body tends to be less

21 wealthy than students who go to SUNY, so more

22 of your student body, a larger percentage,

23 have for a long time between TAP and Pell

24 been able to attend without tuition costs.

145

1 But I'm wondering, there does seem to be,

2 based on some of the numbers we have, an

3 increased number for the Excelsior program,

4 which has brought more students than you had

5 before.

6 And I'm wondering if there are

7 particular campuses which have seen that

8 cohort go to more than others, and whether or

9 not those particular campuses are already

10 overcrowded. How is the system dealing with

11 that?

12 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: So I do believe

13 that the announcement of Excelsior and the

14 very discussion about making access,

15 improving access last year, helped increase

16 the number of applicants that we had. And so

17 I do think that it's a contributing factor.

18 I have a list of the campuses and how

19 many students they have, but I don't happen

20 to have it in front of me. You know, I would

21 say that in a university that's increased by

22 40,000 students over the last 10 years

23 without significant new physical space, this

24 is an issue that we have been facing for some

146

1 time. And while Excelsior has no doubt added

2 additional students, it's a bigger issue than

3 just the Excelsior students.

4 One of the things that we are going to

5 have to do that I talked to this committee

6 about, these committees about before, is the

7 increased use of online education, increased

8 partnerships with other entities, whether

9 they're libraries or other probably public

10 and in some cases private entities, to use

11 space effectively in one of the most

12 expensive real estate markets in the country.

13 But there is a need for expansion, and there

14 is also a need for investment in laboratory

15 space and others that we can't replicate in

16 partnerships, and we can't simply add more

17 students to the classrooms in those cases.

18 So this is a long-term issue that we

19 need to deal with, with your help, to address

20 what I hope will be continuing growth in

21 enrollment at CUNY.

22 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Were there

23 particular campuses that seemed to have been

24 the focus of these new applicants

147

1 specifically from Excelsior? And do you even

2 know whether they're applicants that are -- I

3 mean, I'm not quite certain whether the

4 Excelsior scholarships in some instances may

5 have already been students who are currently

6 enrolled but were able to, because of the

7 change in the eligibility at the higher end

8 of the salary/income range, have been able

9 to -- they were sophomores, they're going to

10 be able to get their junior and senior year

11 covered in a way that had not occurred

12 before.

13 So I'm just wondering -- and if you

14 don't have it in front of you, that's fine, I

15 just would like to understand that later --

16 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Yeah.

17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: -- what your

18 analysis of the numbers are and whether there

19 were particular campuses that attracted

20 students more than others.

21 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Right. So as I

22 look through the list of 24 campuses and --

23 well, not 24 because of undergraduates -- but

24 those that are receiving students with

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1 Excelsior, the numbers are as you might

2 expect. The largest campuses receive the

3 largest number of them and the smallest the

4 smallest.

5 But they are not the kinds of numbers

6 that in and of themselves would create a

7 significant drain on the resources of a

8 campus or tax the facilities. Again, the

9 larger question of the total enrollment

10 growth over a period is a little different

11 issue, but it all adds up.

12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: On that matter,

13 when it comes to the facilities, there has

14 been over the last 10 years some tremendous

15 improvement in the facilities of some of the

16 campuses. That was some long-range planning.

17 We have not been successful at getting a

18 five-year capital plan embraced by the

19 Executive.

20 But within that context, where do you

21 see the ability of the system to address both

22 some really needed new facilities -- science

23 buildings in particular are expensive -- but

24 I know that there are at least a couple that

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1 need to be addressed soon. And yet you, with

2 40,000 other students, there are other kinds

3 of facilities you need. Where are you in

4 your planning? What are you targeting?

5 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Well, I'm a fan

6 of planning. And despite the lack of a

7 five-year plan, we have a five-year plan

8 which identifies our priorities for capital

9 needs across the university. And as you

10 mentioned, several of the highest priorities

11 relate to science and health professions

12 because of areas of growth in the economy.

13 And there are several of these facilities

14 which have been a part of our request for a

15 number of years.

16 We know this is a tough budget period

17 this year, but we will continue to make the

18 case for new facilities at both the senior

19 colleges and the community colleges. Some of

20 this is probably going to have to be done

21 with private investment. Increasingly we are

22 raising money for some kinds of facilities at

23 CUNY, and this is a trend across the country,

24 as you know.

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1 But I don't see the time in the near

2 future when we are going to be able at CUNY

3 to raise the kinds of private funds we need

4 to invest in some of the most important,

5 sophisticated science and health science

6 kinds of facilities.

7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: You talked about

8 the terrific faculty -- as a Queens College

9 graduate, I will say that they are

10 exceptional. And you have done -- you know,

11 you're in a marketplace where you can attract

12 more diversity to the faculty than perhaps in

13 some other parts of the state. So I'm very

14 proud of the record that you've established.

15 But I'm wondering where you are in

16 your ratio of full-time faculty to adjuncts

17 at this point. Kudos for trying to be more

18 supportive of adjunct faculty, giving some --

19 instead of the year-to-year situation where

20 so many faculty members didn't know until

21 classes were starting whether they had a job

22 or not, weren't eligible for unemployment

23 because they had a letter that said "You're

24 likely to get a spot," but it wasn't clear.

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1 So that put a lot of very intelligent, smart,

2 hard-working people in a very difficult

3 place.

4 So where are we on the full-time

5 faculty trajectory?

6 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: One to 1.5, over

7 7,000 full-time faculty, 7,500 -- about

8 11,500 adjunct faculty. Part of our request,

9 part of what we will be using funds for in

10 the budget is to hire more full-time faculty.

11 I do want to remind you -- which I

12 know you know well -- it's something I

13 mentioned earlier, which is the establishment

14 in our agreement with the PSC in the last

15 budget cycle to create a three-year

16 appointment process for eligible adjunct

17 faculty, which I personally am hugely in

18 favor of and think it's a step forward for

19 just the reason that you mentioned.

20 But of course our goal is to increase

21 the number of full-time faculty who are

22 necessary to the sort of academic community

23 that we are creating at CUNY, with a culture

24 of completion where there are faculty

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1 available to do academic advising in addition

2 to their teaching, who are available and have

3 the time to do research and other scholarly

4 work, to keep them at the top of the game and

5 benefit our students.

6 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: My time is

7 expired, but I would be interested in finding

8 out what your year-to-year movement will be

9 in increasing full-time faculty.

10 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Sure.

11 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Senator

12 LaValle.

13 SENATOR LAVALLE: Thank you.

14 Good to see you again, Chancellor.

15 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Thank you.

16 SENATOR LAVALLE: There was no mention

17 of the maintenance of effort, and how are you

18 going to be handling the additional costs

19 that you are incurring? How are you going to

20 deal with that?

21 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Well, the

22 Executive Budget and -- including the

23 recognition of our tuition increase, will

24 provide the funding that we need in our

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1 financial plan to support CUNY's goals in the

2 next year.

3 Could we do more if we had additional

4 funding? Absolutely. We could hire more

5 full-time faculty. We could implement

6 programs more rapidly to accelerate the

7 graduation rates and build the workforce

8 linkages. But we recognize the constraints

9 on the budget this year.

10 We are pleased that things like the

11 fringe benefits, which is a significant

12 investment, is there so we don't have to

13 reallocate to fund that. And the tuition

14 increase of $200 at the senior colleges will

15 provide that additional funding that we need

16 to support our faculty contract and to do

17 some additional hiring.

18 SENATOR LAVALLE: One of the things

19 that CUNY has always had a voracious appetite

20 for is for -- and you have a book that you

21 held up before, "Five-Year Capital Plan."

22 The presidents lobby heavily for projects --

23 critical maintenance is very important,

24 facilities age -- but in order to keep up

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1 with both equipment and physical space, we

2 need capital. So will you be dragged a bit

3 -- will there be some drag on you? Because

4 that book that you have looks pretty thick.

5 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: CUNY's a big

6 place with a lot of students and an aging

7 infrastructure where I think the average age

8 of our building is over 50 years old. With

9 the investment in critical maintenance, we'll

10 do the best we can to keep those buildings up

11 and rehabilitate them to be at 2018 standards

12 for what they're used for.

13 But there's no question, as I

14 mentioned before, because of the increased

15 enrollment at CUNY, which is significant,

16 some of our campuses are experiencing space

17 challenges. And we're pretty efficient in

18 the use of space across CUNY. But also those

19 high-end buildings that the State of New York

20 wants SUNY and CUNY to have available to

21 train the next generation of healthcare

22 professionals, research scientists,

23 information technology workers, engineers.

24 So we will have to keep making our

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1 case and, when the state is in a position to

2 be able to invest in new facilities at CUNY,

3 we certainly hope it will do so.

4 SENATOR LAVALLE: I wanted to make a

5 comment that both Assemblymember Glick and I

6 and our colleagues on our respective

7 committees have been strong proponents of

8 full-time faculty. It's a key element in

9 our -- how the members feel on the committee

10 and the committee's feel.

11 The area of workforce development

12 programs, how the Governor has some specific

13 ideas on that -- can you tell me how you're

14 going to more forward on workforce?

15 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Yeah. So our

16 strategic plan basically has three main

17 pillars, and the third one is this whole idea

18 of helping launch our students on great

19 careers. And I mentioned earlier it's partly

20 done through expanding across CUNY our

21 internship opportunities.

22 We're working in 10 segments in the

23 economy that we believe are the most

24 important growth areas in the economy in the

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1 City of New York. It's IT, it's healthcare,

2 it's finance, it's arts and culture. So

3 we're developing relationships with specific

4 businesses -- whether it's Infor, Revature,

5 IBM, Accenture, others -- to help set up

6 internships, recruit mentoring opportunities

7 and have students be first in line for jobs,

8 and we're doing it with entire segments of

9 the economy.

10 New program a year ago for internships

11 in the arts programs and culture programs in

12 New York City where students have paid

13 internships to work in this area where they

14 wouldn't have before, and they are hiring our

15 graduates now as full-time employees.

16 So this is a major effort. So it's

17 partly done at the college level, and they

18 build relationships -- and I don't want to

19 interfere with those -- they build

20 relationships with employers based on the

21 strengths of their programs at that college.

22 But there are also things that we need

23 to do at the system level, and that's why the

24 philosophy here is a sort of a hub and a

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1 spoke. Where we can provide one-stop

2 shopping to an industry, to a particular

3 large employer, and help position our

4 colleges and their students for access, we're

5 going to do that. We're going to try to take

6 some of the friction out of the recruiting

7 process so a large New York City employer

8 does not need to go to 24 colleges, they may

9 go to a central hub where we will facilitate

10 the recruitment of students across CUNY.

11 SENATOR LAVALLE: A couple of years

12 ago I felt we needed some oversight with the

13 foundations, and the Governor has weighed in

14 on this issue. So where are you?

15 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Where I am is

16 over the last year, together with our board

17 and our presidents and working with these

18 affiliated foundations, we have significantly

19 improved the oversight, we have put in place

20 new overarching policies on financial

21 management across CUNY, including new

22 guidelines for every one of the affiliated

23 foundations, new MOU agreements with every

24 one of our affiliated foundations, a number

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1 of other improvements across CUNY -- a new

2 freestanding audit committee, I recommended

3 to the board and it was adopted, a new

4 position -- a university-wide risk management

5 and compliance.

6 So I feel like the university is in a

7 good spot today in terms of the extensive

8 work that we have done over the past year on

9 this area.

10 SENATOR LAVALLE: Recently there was

11 an article that I read about the presidential

12 housing allotment. Do you feel you have a

13 tight reign on what we're spending as a

14 housing allotment for presidents? Or how

15 they -- I guess there are options that they

16 can choose?

17 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: So as is the

18 case at most universities across the country,

19 there is some provision for housing for CUNY

20 presidents. There's not an option for them.

21 There's an option that the CUNY Board of

22 Trustees has. This is a matter that is in

23 the executive compensation policy of the

24 board, always has been. So it is set by the

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1 Board of Trustees.

2 At some point in the '60s there was a

3 decision by the board to increase the number

4 of university-owned residences for presidents

5 as part of a way to help recruit presidents

6 into a very-high-cost real estate market.

7 That has shifted some over time. CUNY has

8 sold some of those residences, may have --

9 may own, I would say, five, probably five or

10 six residences now where presidents are

11 required to live as a condition of their

12 employment.

13 For those presidents -- where CUNY

14 does not own residences, they provide a

15 housing allowance. And that's the case for

16 every CUNY president.

17 SENATOR LAVALLE: Just this one last

18 question. Excelsior program, overcrowding.

19 Is that an issue at CUNY, overcrowding?

20 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: That's not a

21 cause and effect, I don't believe. And so

22 I -- overcrowded is a generalization.

23 Obviously at our campuses some are more taxed

24 with regard to space than others.

160

1 But I believe if CUNY is successful in

2 continuing to increase enrollment, which I

3 hope it is -- we have 800,000 people in

4 New York City who have college credit and no

5 college degree. I want those people to come

6 to CUNY, whether it's online or in-person, so

7 they get the benefit of a college degree. I

8 want more students who are leaving our high

9 schools to come to CUNY.

10 We're going to have to address this

11 situation, Senator, and I think it's going to

12 be a combination of things. It's going to be

13 more space at CUNY, significantly more online

14 -- and I want to -- I'm sure you saw this,

15 that CUNY has the highest-rated online

16 undergraduate program in the State of New

17 York, and the top 20 in the country. We need

18 to increase the number of students we serve

19 that way. And I think we need to do this

20 through partnerships with other institutions

21 in the city so that we find creative ways to

22 make space available.

23 We have an employer, a major employer

24 in the city now, where they have provided

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1 space in their facility where we're educating

2 CUNY students who are -- as part of their

3 internship program, and hopefully go on to

4 work there. And I think we're going to have

5 to develop more of those kinds of things.

6 SENATOR LAVALLE: Thank you.

7 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Thank you,

8 Senator.

9 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

10 We've been joined by Assemblyman

11 Colton and Assemblyman Pichardo.

12 Assemblywoman Bichotte has some

13 questions.

14 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE: Hello. How

15 are you?

16 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Good morning --

17 afternoon.

18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE: Afternoon.

19 It's really good to see you here,

20 Mr. Chancellor, and I want to thank you for

21 your commitment and dedication to the CUNY

22 community and all of our students, so thank

23 you so much. And I'm happy to see you.

24 You're looking great.

162

1 I also appreciate the fact that you

2 mentioned a student who is a daughter of

3 Haitian immigrants such as myself, by the

4 name of Thamara Jean, who lives in my

5 district who was named a Rhodes Scholar.

6 We're very proud that she is the first

7 Hunter College student to be named a

8 Rhodes Scholar. And I just hope that the

9 president of the United States takes a little

10 lesson on what Haitians in our community --

11 how they can contribute.

12 My question was around the capital

13 budget. As you may know, I am the chair of

14 the Minority and Women-Owned Business

15 Enterprises. And over more than $284 million

16 is dedicated to the capital budget. I wanted

17 to know what percentage is dedicated to

18 MWBEs. Are we going to hold to the standard

19 that the state is expecting us, which is to

20 the 30 percent MWBE goal?

21 That's one question. I also want to

22 say that we really need to address the

23 maintenance-of-effort issue. It's been an

24 ongoing issue for many years, and it just

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1 needs to be addressed.

2 And lastly, Excelsior. I wanted to

3 get a sense of how many students are

4 benefiting from the Excelsior program. In

5 one sense, we raise tuition by $200 and we're

6 telling the whole world that we incorporated

7 a free college tuition program -- but again,

8 it's only a very small sliver percentage of

9 students who are already getting aid are

10 being subsidized with this scholarship. The

11 vast majority of families across the State of

12 New York and the City of New York are not

13 benefiting.

14 And it becomes a problem for me

15 because I have parents who are thinking that

16 their students can go to college for free,

17 and that's not true.

18 Thank you.

19 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Okay. Thanks.

20 And I want to thank you -- I do know of your

21 position, and I want to thank you each year

22 for participating in the CUNY MWBE

23 conference.

24 So a couple of things. It's easier to

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1 look at the operating side in the capital

2 because there's a spend every quarter and

3 every year that we can look at. And I would

4 say that we are very close, we have a little

5 bit of fluctuation to the 30 percent goal in

6 operating and capital.

7 Our contracts that we are letting are

8 all meeting the goal, but if you measure it

9 by the spends, some of which date back years

10 on contracts that were let, there's a

11 discrepancy there.

12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE: Okay.

13 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: So those would

14 not be as high MWBE as the more recent ones

15 are.

16 So it is a high priority at CUNY, a

17 high priority of our board. I don't think

18 there's a meeting that goes by that this

19 isn't a meeting of discussion at our board

20 meeting, and so I think we share your concern

21 and your interest and are pursuing it

22 aggressively.

23 Excelsior -- so I do think it has

24 helped grow our enrollment, I think it has

165

1 certainly helped grow interest and

2 applications to CUNY. With Excelsior, we

3 have a total of over 60 percent of our

4 undergraduates who pay no tuition at CUNY, so

5 for those students it is free in the sense

6 that we talk about free tuition. Obviously

7 there are other costs of attendance that are

8 not covered for all of those people. But

9 it's in excess of 60 percent today.

10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE: Okay. And

11 those are for only students who are receiving

12 aid.

13 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: I'm sorry?

14 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE: Those are --

15 the students who are eligible to receive the

16 Excelsior scholarship, those 60 percent, they

17 are all receiving aid?

18 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Well, so the

19 60 percent is the total percentage of

20 undergraduates at CUNY that are not paying

21 tuition. Now, a very significant part of

22 that is Pell from the federal government, TAP

23 from the State of New York, Excelsior as the

24 newest component of this aid. So I'm putting

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1 all of them together.

2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE: Oh, okay.

3 You don't want to say the percentages of

4 Excelsior, of that 60 percent?

5 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: There are about

6 5,000 students -- you heard earlier from

7 Chancellor Johnson, 23,000 total CUNY and

8 SUNY students receiving Excelsior.

9 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE: Okay.

10 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: About 5,000 at

11 CUNY and 17,000 at SUNY.

12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE: A low

13 percentage. Okay, thank you.

14 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

15 Senator Stavisky.

16 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you,

17 Chancellor, for your service.

18 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Thank you.

19 SENATOR STAVISKY: I appreciate each

20 year that you come, and we do appreciate

21 everything that you have done to continue the

22 traditions of CUNY.

23 You didn't introduce your colleagues,

24 but I see Vice Chancellor Sapienza. And I

167

1 have a constituent here, Vice Chancellor

2 Christopher Rosa.

3 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Thank you.

4 SENATOR STAVISKY: I have a couple of

5 questions.

6 I found the 60 percent number that you

7 just mentioned interesting, because I assume

8 a large number of those students are not

9 full-time; am I correct? And is that the

10 reason why -- I'm sorry, of the 40 percent

11 who are not receiving the full amount.

12 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: It's a

13 combination of eligibility, income

14 eligibility, but it's also credit hour

15 eligibility. It's also those that are taking

16 enough credits to get a Pell or a TAP.

17 So yes, a combination of them. And it

18 probably is significantly part-time.

19 SENATOR STAVISKY: Have you found that

20 of the students who have opted to take the

21 Excelsior program plus the Pell grants plus

22 the TAP, that their graduation -- that

23 they're on track to graduate? This is the

24 same question I asked the SUNY chancellor.

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1 The 30 credits plus maintaining a grade point

2 average.

3 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Well, if they

4 are eligible for Excelsior and maintain their

5 eligibility for Excelsior, they will

6 absolutely be on track for timely graduation

7 because of the requirements of the program.

8 But the most important thing I think,

9 Senator, that I can say about this is a point

10 I mentioned earlier about how one of the key

11 elements of our strategic plan is to increase

12 graduation rates, and we went from last year

13 with 31 percent of our full-time students

14 taking 15 credits to this year 41 percent of

15 full-time students taking 15 credits.

16 SENATOR STAVISKY: That's my point.

17 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: That's going to

18 keep a very significant number of students on

19 the pathway to graduation.

20 And it's all good.

21 SENATOR STAVISKY: That was the

22 purpose of my question. I assumed this to be

23 the case.

24 Would the increase of $200 in tuition,

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1 and with the Excelsior amount being somewhat

2 flat, there's a gap that has always been

3 there where we've had that problem with --

4 how is CUNY dealing with the what I used to

5 call the TAP gap, the gap between what the

6 students have to pay out and what they

7 receive?

8 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Well, that's a

9 cost that CUNY has to bear, which is about

10 $59 million right now, the gap.

11 SENATOR STAVISKY: And can you tell

12 us -- again, I asked this question of SUNY --

13 what is the cost of remediation for those

14 students who come to CUNY and are not

15 prepared for college work?

16 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Did SUNY tell

17 you that number?

18 (Laughter.)

19 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yeah.

20 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: I didn't

21 remember hearing it, so maybe I should say

22 "What she said."

23 SENATOR STAVISKY: I think that was

24 one of the "I'll get back to you" answers.

170

1 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: You know, I

2 think in the past we have estimated our

3 number to be about a little less than half of

4 what SUNY's is.

5 You know, it's no secret that we have

6 had a challenge with students requiring

7 remedial education, and we used to -- when I

8 came before this committee I talked to you

9 about 80 percent, give or take a couple

10 percentage points, of students who present at

11 our community colleges who required some

12 remedial education before they could

13 matriculate.

14 That number is down significantly now,

15 and there are a number of factors for that.

16 One of them is that I believe we have

17 significantly, after a year of study

18 university-wide, improved our approach to

19 remediation and adopted some national best

20 practices in remedial education. I could

21 give you some details about it, but what it

22 has done -- in no way changing the

23 requirements for admission and the

24 requirements for graduation, so students are

171

1 still meeting the same obligations -- but I

2 think CUNY was a little out of step with

3 national best practice on how to do

4 remediation.

5 To give you one quick example,

6 students who scored right below the cut line

7 on being admitted, there's a lot of research

8 that demonstrates that if you allow those

9 students to matriculate, their chances of

10 success are considerably higher than the

11 students who are not allowed to matriculate

12 but go into remedial courses without making

13 any progress towards their degree.

14 So if we know that and can do a

15 provisional admit, or an admit at the same

16 time to get credit for courses while they're

17 becoming proficient, we've increased our

18 success and we've done those students, I

19 think, a great service.

20 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you. Because

21 I've always felt that that is not a cost that

22 should be borne by CUNY, the failure to

23 prepare adequately for college.

24 Thank you. Thank you for your

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1 service, again.

2 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

3 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

4 I have a couple of quick questions,

5 and I think then we just have a few more

6 members.

7 The Executive proposal allows for

8 $60 million from the sale of CUNY property to

9 be used for state support. Is CUNY planning

10 on selling any assets for $60 million?

11 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: I don't believe

12 there's a plan at this time to sell any of

13 our assets.

14 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: And then on --

15 I know you were just talking about some of

16 the support for students, and I know that

17 CUNY has been focusing on supports for

18 students to aid in both retention and

19 graduation. How will the Executive Budget

20 proposal impact your strategies to further

21 improve student success? I'm thinking in

22 particular of the $4-million-plus reduction

23 in SEEK funds.

24 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Well, the first

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1 thing that it does is by including the

2 mandatory costs, it keeps us from having to

3 reallocate those funds within our senior

4 college budget. So that allows us not to

5 have to make up ground for that, that's very

6 positive.

7 Second, it continues a $4 million

8 investment in the online resources for

9 textbooks and course materials, a

10 significant, we believe -- which will pay off

11 many times that investment in terms of the

12 amount that we can save our students, and of

13 course cost is always one of the top factors

14 in students not persisting. So we think

15 that's a positive.

16 Recognizing the increase in tuition at

17 our senior colleges will allow us to have a

18 significant level of funding, over $30

19 million, to invest primarily in faculty

20 resources. So that, together with some

21 adjustments that we have made recently in

22 agreement with the PSC, which will provide

23 opportunities for more academic advising by

24 our faculties so that students will have the

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1 benefit of that and be able to continue

2 progress towards degrees. There's really

3 nothing more important than that, I think, in

4 terms of students staying on track.

5 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you very

6 much.

7 We have, as our next speaker, Senator

8 Savino.

9 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you. Thank

10 you, Senator Young.

11 Thank you, Chancellor. It's good to

12 see you, and for once I don't have to ask you

13 about the fate of the Murphy Institute

14 becoming a full school, so I want to thank

15 you for making good on that commitment. It

16 seems like yesterday we were meeting in your

17 office to talk about it. I know it's very

18 important to CUNY, it's very important to the

19 labor movement, and it's personally very

20 important to me, so I want to thank you for

21 your efforts on that.

22 I want to follow up on something you

23 said in your testimony about one of the ways

24 we can reduce the burdens on students and the

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1 costs on students is to make sure that they

2 graduate on time and get out of school

3 sooner. One of the ways we can do that, I

4 believe, is through advanced placement

5 courses, AP courses.

6 There was a recent report put out by

7 the Independent Budget Office, though, that

8 shows that participation in advanced

9 placement courses at the high school level is

10 significantly below what we would like. Only

11 about 30 percent of students are taking them,

12 and in low-income neighborhoods where you

13 have poorer communities, they are even less

14 likely to do so.

15 So now while it really is the

16 responsibility of, I would say, the

17 Department of Education to encourage advanced

18 placement, since it benefits students who

19 eventually become your students, is there a

20 role that CUNY can play in expanding access

21 to information about advanced placement

22 courses or working with local high schools to

23 see to it that students enroll in those

24 courses?

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1 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Yeah. So you're

2 right.

3 SENATOR SAVINO: I love it when they

4 say that. Thank you.

5 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Increasing

6 advanced placement would be fine, but I do

7 think there are other ways at CUNY that we

8 are doing things which in my view are even

9 more important than that.

10 One is we have between 25,000 and

11 30,000 students in New York City who are

12 taking college courses now throughout high

13 schools in New York. So not just advanced

14 placement, these are courses for which they

15 are getting college credit, and they are

16 taking them free now in the high schools and

17 getting acquainted with college-level work.

18 I see no reason why we can't significantly

19 expand that number, and I would like us to do

20 that.

21 So Early College and College Now

22 programs that CUNY has been a pioneer in --

23 the P-TECH model high schools, combination

24 high school two-year programs of which we

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1 support -- I can't think of the number right

2 now, 14 or 15 in New York City are partners

3 with DOE and individual industries, the first

4 one being IBM and DOE and CUNY -- where

5 students go through the program, get a high

6 school degree, get a two-year degree, and

7 then get a job. I think those are other

8 ways.

9 So I think there are -- advanced

10 placement is one of the strategies, but I

11 don't think it's the only one.

12 SENATOR SAVINO: Oh, that's good to

13 know.

14 But I'm just concerned about what

15 appears to be a disconnect at schools between

16 the DOE and -- just letting students know

17 that advanced placement is one of the tools

18 that they can use, and it is literally money

19 in your pocket. You know, if it's a course

20 you don't have to take at CUNY that they --

21 it comes out of your budget, but it doesn't

22 come out of their budget. So I just think we

23 need to do more, so.

24 And again, let me just say one more

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1 time, thank you for the commitment on Murphy

2 Institute. Thank you.

3 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: You're very

4 welcome.

5 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

6 Assemblywoman Glick.

7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Just a couple of

8 follow-ups.

9 The graduation rates that have been

10 deemed to be so dismal -- is it not true that

11 if a student starts in a community college

12 and goes for a year and then transfers to a

13 four-year school, they have not actually

14 completed a degree at the community college

15 and the community college doesn't actually

16 get credit for a graduation at that point?

17 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Used to be. It

18 used to be the case, and I think that's a

19 significant problem for a variety of reasons.

20 But we have instituted about two years

21 ago something which is unartfully referred to

22 across the country as reverse transfer, and

23 how it works is this: You go to Bronx

24 Community College for a year, you transfer to

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1 Lehman, you spend another year at Lehman --

2 your credits that you have earned at Lehman

3 would be sufficient for you to have received

4 an associate's degree at Bronx. We are now

5 providing the associate's degree.

6 One of the reasons is that we believe,

7 I think like you, that if a student has

8 earned a credential, they should receive that

9 credential. And if they leave early and are

10 successfully pursuing a four-year degree,

11 they shouldn't be penalized in this way, not

12 receiving the other earned credential. Maybe

13 that student will drop out in three years,

14 but in this case they'll now have the

15 community college degree.

16 So I think it's an important point,

17 and I'm very pleased with the numbers that we

18 are seeing now. It's been a successful

19 program.

20 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: At some point

21 perhaps you can share with the committee --

22 since it's two years old, it's not going to

23 have a long trajectory --

24 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Correct.

180

1 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: -- but just if

2 you could give us some information on that.

3 In addition, there are many people

4 that already have a degree but for one reason

5 or another -- perhaps it's a requirement of

6 their employer, that they take a couple of

7 credits or a couple of courses, and they show

8 up as a student at a community college, never

9 intending to graduate. Do we have any idea

10 of what that universe might be?

11 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: I don't, off the

12 top of my head. I can get it to you -- it's

13 probably pretty hard to unwrap that with

14 precision.

15 But I would say to you I want that

16 number to get much bigger. Because, you

17 know, what they say -- when I went to school,

18 you graduated and thought you'd get a job and

19 you'd be there and you'd retire later. Now

20 they estimate that students who graduate with

21 a four-year degree are going to have over

22 five career changes, five or seven, by the

23 time they're 35. Often they're going to need

24 to retool.

181

1 I read a statistic the other day that

2 said that over half of the jobs that will

3 exist 15 years from now haven't been

4 conceived of yet. It would be tough for us

5 to prepare students, except in a general way,

6 for those. So the retooling that has to be

7 done, the new skills that people are going to

8 learn and that kind of thing, I want them to

9 come to CUNY for that, whether it's for a

10 short credit load certificate or whether it's

11 just for a course or two.

12 And so I'll give you the numbers we

13 have on this, but I think it will be

14 successful if we can increase those numbers.

15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: I don't disagree

16 with you. My concern is that as we do

17 that -- which I think you're 100 percent

18 right, lots of people are going to find the

19 need to find a new way of making a living --

20 that we not penalize or denigrate our

21 community colleges with a false notion that

22 their graduation rate, which is tagged to

23 something different, makes them less

24 successful if they have larger numbers of

182

1 people coming back for three or four courses

2 that were never intended to get a specific

3 credential but have been encouraged.

4 So unless we're going to be doing much

5 more in the way of identifying "these four

6 courses provide you with this kind of

7 certificate" --

8 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Right. I don't

9 think we'll do that. Typically we measure

10 graduation rates based on a cohort of

11 first-time full-time freshmen. So the person

12 coming back years later is not going to be

13 part of that mix and not drag down the

14 graduation rates.

15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Great.

16 One final question is, how many

17 education programs do you have? I have

18 talked to the DOE chancellor; she identifies

19 a couple of the programs that she thinks are

20 fabulous and then some that she doesn't think

21 are so great. What's happening with

22 producing New York City teachers?

23 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: We produce a

24 huge number, between 30 and 40 percent of

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1 New York City's teachers.

2 So let me take a quick step back. A

3 huge part of our strategic plan, I would say

4 the first third of it -- it's all called

5 Connected CUNY. And the reason it's called

6 that is because we realized that we can't

7 achieve what we need to achieve without deep

8 partnerships with a whole lot of

9 institutions. The most important one is DOE,

10 and we're taking responsibility for that part

11 of the education, the life from early

12 childhood education -- where we're a leader

13 on -- so students are college-ready when they

14 come to CUNY.

15 We can't point fingers at each other.

16 We produce a huge number of the teachers in

17 DOE, and so we believe we are responsible in

18 significant part for the quality of education

19 there. So the more we can deepen that

20 relationship, the more our teacher candidates

21 can get experience in New York City schools,

22 the better prepared they are when they get

23 there -- we think the better those students

24 will be prepared -- and our students when

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1 they get to CUNY will succeed.

2 So we have a number of initiatives

3 going on now where we have -- we're bringing

4 together all of the deans of education,

5 working closely with the DOE and with the

6 academic -- with the provost's office at

7 CUNY.

8 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Thank you.

9 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

10 Senator Krueger.

11 SENATOR KRUEGER: Good afternoon,

12 Chancellor.

13 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Hi.

14 SENATOR KRUEGER: So many questions

15 have been asked, so just a few, I think,

16 follow-ups.

17 It's a question I asked SUNY as well.

18 Have you implemented adopting bylaws and

19 fiscal management policies for all the

20 CUNY-affiliated organizations, and can those

21 be made available to us?

22 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: I'm sorry, we

23 adopted what?

24 SENATOR KRUEGER: Bylaws and fiscal

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1 management policies --

2 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Oh, yes.

3 SENATOR KRUEGER: -- for all of the

4 affiliated organizations.

5 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Yes, we

6 absolutely have. We've put in place new

7 guidelines specifically for related

8 fundraising foundations and new guidelines

9 for all auxiliary operations, completely

10 revised and adopted by the Board of Trustees,

11 and a new required MOU to be signed by every

12 auxiliary operation and every affiliated

13 foundation. And that has been done.

14 SENATOR KRUEGER: So as I asked SUNY,

15 if you could please get that to me

16 afterwards.

17 And do you know approximately how many

18 organizations there are under CUNY? SUNY

19 said they thought about 30.

20 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: So I'm going to

21 let the chief financial officer answer this,

22 because I can't tell what he's whispering to

23 me --

24 (Laughter.)

186

1 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: But if the

2 question is about affiliated foundations, the

3 supporting foundations, there's essentially

4 one per college. So there are 24 of those

5 fundraising foundations, and frankly there

6 will be 25, because we will -- with the

7 hiring of a new vice chancellor for

8 advancement at the systemwide level, we will

9 create a foundation to support CUNY-wide

10 initiatives as well which will comply with

11 the same requirements that the college

12 foundations comply with.

13 SENATOR KRUEGER: But there are others

14 besides foundations, and I guess what I'm

15 also asking for is those reports that would

16 be publicly available to show us how much

17 money is going through each of these.

18 CUNY CFO SAPIENZA: Yeah, Senator, in

19 total we have 86 affiliated organizations, as

20 the chancellor said, including the college

21 foundations, the auxiliary enterprises, the

22 student associations, the childcare centers.

23 In total, there's 86.

24 And all of the new policies that we

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1 have in place that the chancellor mentioned

2 earlier in response to your question, they're

3 all available on our website. We'll have to

4 send you and the rest of the members the link

5 to the website.

6 So we're very pleased at all of the

7 work that has been done over the last year to

8 get us to this place.

9 SENATOR KRUEGER: Good. I look

10 forward to seeing that. Thank you.

11 And Chancellor, you actually talked

12 about the CUNY sort of open education online

13 system that has actually gotten awards. I'm

14 curious whether you have looked at what

15 online coursework has translated into as far

16 as student success. Do students who use

17 online programs graduate sooner, less soon?

18 Do they have to repeat -- I mean, do they

19 fall into certain categories?

20 I'm just curious, in this world that's

21 ever-changing, what online college means for

22 us.

23 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: There's a fair

24 amount of research on this now, and I believe

188

1 we're getting new and better data. It

2 wouldn't surprise you that student success in

3 online mirrors in some degree their success

4 in physical delivery. The better prepared a

5 student is, the more mature a student is, the

6 better they will do with online. In fact,

7 the level of independence probably requires

8 that a student, to be successful, be even

9 more mature and ready.

10 You know, there's a huge benefit to

11 physical delivery, and in many areas -- your

12 lab courses, et cetera -- while there are

13 great digital models now, they're still

14 required. And the best education -- and

15 fortunately at CUNY, where we're all in one

16 place, I believe we're going to be able to be

17 leaders in this sort of hybrid and blended

18 educational opportunities where students are

19 taking some of their courses -- some portion

20 of it online, some portion of it in classroom

21 discussion.

22 And actually what the research

23 demonstrates is that that may be the most

24 effective learning for many students, is some

189

1 combination of this. And I frankly

2 personally believe that as students continue

3 to be more and more sophisticated in the use

4 of technology, that will only increase, that

5 the demand to deliver at least a portion of

6 the curriculum online is going to continue.

7 SENATOR KRUEGER: So is there data,

8 what percentage of CUNY students are using

9 online or what percentage of your total

10 coursework is allowed to be online? Is it

11 more in the senior colleges than in the

12 community colleges, based on what you just

13 said?

14 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Yes. There is

15 more at the senior colleges.

16 I'd have to get you the percentage of,

17 for instance, credit hour delivery that's

18 done online versus physical. I don't know it

19 offhand.

20 I can tell you that there is great

21 interest, my own and many of my presidents,

22 in significantly increasing the number that

23 is available online. There's been a good

24 deal of work that's gone into this, and as I

190

1 mentioned, CUNY has a very successful track

2 record with online bachelor's courses.

3 SENATOR KRUEGER: And is there a

4 maximum that you can take as your total

5 credits, being online versus in a classroom?

6 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: No. It would

7 depend on the mix of courses available in a

8 major.

9 At the School of Professional Studies,

10 you could take 100 percent of your courses

11 online for particular degree programs. The

12 rate-limiting factor would be the course

13 availability in the program.

14 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

15 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you,

16 Chancellor, for being here. Your filibuster

17 seems to have worked; we're on our schedule.

18 SENATOR STAVISKY: Can I just add

19 one --

20 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Senator

21 Stavisky, yes.

22 SENATOR STAVISKY: One quick point.

23 There was a story in the New York Times

24 within the last couple of days that talked

191

1 about online and it added that it was even

2 more successful when it was a combination of

3 a teacher and online.

4 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Yeah. Exactly

5 right, and I agree with that.

6 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Okay. Thank

7 you again for being here, and there may be

8 some followup questions from the committee.

9 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN: Thank you very

10 much. Happy to answer any questions that

11 come up later.

12 Thank you.

13 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Our next

14 witness is the commissioner of the New York

15 State Education Department, MaryEllen Elia.

16 I'll give you a moment to catch your

17 breath. We're earlier than we anticipated.

18 COMMISSIONER ELIA: It's been a busy

19 morning over at State Ed.

20 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Whenever you're

21 ready.

22 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Great, thank you.

23 I have another person joining me.

24 Well, good afternoon, Chairs Young,

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1 Weinstein, LaValle and Glick, and members of

2 the Senate and Assembly here today. My name

3 is MaryEllen Elia, and I'm the Commissioner

4 of Education.

5 I will be joined by Deputy

6 Commissioner for the Office of Higher

7 Education John D'Agati. I'm sure he's on his

8 way over. We also have Deputy Commissioner

9 for the Office of Professions Doug Lentivech

10 and Deputy Commissioner for the Office of

11 Adult Career and Continuing Education

12 Services Kevin Smith.

13 You have my full testimony before you.

14 Before I begin, I want to also welcome

15 several members of the Board of Regents who

16 are either in the audience or on their way

17 over, and they include Chancellor Betty Rosa,

18 Regents Ouderkirk, Mead, Cashin, Collins,

19 Tilles and Hakanson.

20 The Regents' priorities in higher

21 education are laser-focused on equity and

22 access to post-secondary education

23 opportunities, particularly for our

24 underrepresented students, because we know

193

1 from multiple indicators, as you can see on

2 Slides 2, 3 and 4, that college completion

3 leads to better employment opportunities and

4 higher income.

5 As you can see on Slides 5 through 9,

6 the Regents recommend an increase of

7 $10 million for our higher education

8 opportunity programs. These programs provide

9 access to post-secondary education for

10 students that are at the highest risks of

11 either not attending college or not

12 completing their degree. Almost 37,000

13 students are served by one of these programs.

14 And with the additional investments we've

15 recommended, we would reach more students

16 across the state as well as provide them,

17 under our STEP and CSTEP programs, for

18 examples, with opportunities to participate

19 in STEM-based research, internships, or

20 exploratory career opportunities at area

21 facilities.

22 On Slide 10, our teaching workforce

23 should be as diverse as the student

24 populations being served by our schools.

194

1 This benefits all of our students. Our new

2 Teacher Opportunity Corps, or TOC II program,

3 continues to be funded by the My Brother's

4 Keeper initiative, for which we want to thank

5 all of you again, especially Speaker Heastie.

6 TOC II is designed to increase the

7 participation rate of individuals identified

8 as underrepresented and underserved in the

9 teaching professions -- African-American,

10 Hispanic-American, American Indian, or Alaska

11 natives. The program also aims to enhance

12 the preparation of teachers in addressing the

13 learning needs of students in high-needs

14 districts to become culturally responsive

15 educators.

16 And finally, TOC II will assist in the

17 recruitment, retention and certification

18 activities necessary to increase the supply

19 of qualified teachers in schools and in

20 districts experiencing teacher shortages,

21 schools and districts having a high

22 concentration of students at risk, and in our

23 most troubling schools.

24 We appreciate the strong support that

195

1 you have demonstrated for our opportunity

2 programs. These programs work, and your

3 support and funding has made the difference.

4 Our access and opportunity agenda also

5 includes enactment of the New York State

6 DREAM Act. The Regents and the department

7 have long been advocates of this important

8 legislation, which is highlighted on Slide

9 11. We're glad to see this proposal included

10 within the Executive Budget once again, and

11 we're hopeful that this is the year when the

12 DREAM Act is finally signed into law and

13 these young New Yorkers are no longer

14 punished for decisions that they had no

15 control over.

16 And as you negotiate this budget,

17 please remember that our workforce and our

18 workforce pipeline are the state's most

19 important infrastructure and our best

20 economic development program. A

21 state-of-the-art workforce pipeline does not

22 depend only on traditional college pathways.

23 As you can on Slide 12, the Regents

24 are requesting a $3 million investment in

196

1 Bridge programs, to enable out-of-school

2 youth and adults to obtain essential basic

3 skills, a high school equivalency or HSE

4 diploma, industry recognized credentials, and

5 preparation for post-secondary study and

6 careers. The programs would consist of

7 partnerships between an adult education

8 program and colleges or training providers of

9 demonstrated effectiveness. This proposal

10 could pilot up to 10 Bridge programs across

11 New York State. One of the best examples of

12 this Bridge program model exists in CUNY's

13 LaGuardia Community College.

14 One of our new priority budget

15 proposals, described on Slide 13, would be to

16 enhance supports and services for

17 post-secondary success of our students with

18 disabilities. In May 2017 the department's

19 Advisory Council on Post-Secondary Education

20 for Students with Disabilities recommended --

21 and our Board of Regents adopted -- a

22 proposal to work with representatives from

23 our higher education sectors to develop a

24 funding proposal that would provide

197

1 much-needed enhanced supports and services to

2 over 61,000 identified New York students with

3 disabilities in degree-granting colleges and

4 universities, to aid in their success.

5 Since May, the department has been

6 engaged in collaborative efforts to establish

7 a legislative framework advocating for

8 critical new funding that would supplement,

9 not supplant, any other funding in existence

10 for such purposes. The idea, which we've

11 been working on finalizing with our

12 higher-education-sector stakeholders, would

13 be to allocate $15 million in a proportionate

14 manner by each identified student with

15 disability per sector, to SUNY, CUNY and our

16 New York State degree-granting independent

17 and proprietary colleges, pursuant to an

18 approved plan.

19 This program would be designed to

20 supplement funding for support and

21 accommodations of students with disabilities;

22 support summer college preparation programs

23 to assist individuals with disabilities

24 transition to college and prepare them to

198

1 navigate campus facilities and systems;

2 provide full- and part-time college faculty

3 and staff with disability training; and

4 improve the identification process of

5 individuals with disabilities and enhance

6 data collection capabilities.

7 I'm mindful that this is a new

8 initiative in a difficult fiscal environment.

9 However, I want to start this critical

10 conversation of how we need, collectively, to

11 better support our students with disabilities

12 to be successful in college.

13 Moving on to Slide 14, during this

14 past 2017 session, both Chairs LaValle and

15 Glick introduced and, along with their fellow

16 legislators, overwhelmingly passed

17 legislation that would ensure that the

18 department has sufficient staff and resources

19 to continue our important institutional

20 accreditation work. And we want to thank you

21 for this.

22 There are currently 14 institutions of

23 higher education in New York that are

24 accredited by the Board of Regents, such as

199

1 Cold Spring Harbor Lab, the American Museum

2 of Natural History, and the Gerstner School

3 at Sloan-Kettering, and your efforts

4 demonstrate support not only for the

5 department to continue to do this work, but

6 dedication to these important programs.

7 I was very pleased to see that the

8 Governor included within his proposal the

9 establishment of a special revenue account

10 with over $500,000 to support institutional

11 accreditation work at the department, through

12 staffing and related expenses.

13 This provision, along with the

14 authority to charge a fee for this very

15 labor-intensive accreditation work to provide

16 staff and resources which the Division of

17 Budget would approve, will hopefully allow

18 the department to once again obtain approval

19 by the U.S. Department of Education to remain

20 as an accrediting agency for these

21 institutions, as well as new ones. I'll be

22 traveling to Washington, D.C., in February to

23 seek this approval and will keep you posted

24 as we continue our move through the federal

200

1 process.

2 On Slides 15 through 19, we provide

3 you with updates on the work of the Office of

4 Professions. I want to bring particular

5 attention to e-licensing on Slide 18. In

6 2009, the Legislature and Executive approved

7 a 15 percent registration fee increase so

8 that we could replace a 35-year-old

9 COBOL-based licensing system and enhance our

10 customer experience. We again thank you for

11 the bipartisan efforts to make these

12 resources available to the department.

13 The department has developed and

14 rolled out over 20 online license

15 applications, but this is only the very

16 beginning of the work that needs to be done.

17 We're requesting authority to spend funds we

18 already have on hand in the Professions

19 account to develop our own custom-built

20 electronic licensing system.

21 We want to thank the Governor for

22 including this critical provision in his

23 proposed budget this year, as well as the

24 Assembly for including this in their

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1 one-house the previous two years. We hope

2 that the Senate will join the Assembly and

3 the Executive in supporting this, as it would

4 have no fiscal impact to the state. Your

5 support would remove a significant barrier in

6 helping the department assist your

7 constituents by having a faster and more

8 efficient professional electronic licensing

9 system, rather than the largely paper-based

10 system we now have.

11 If we want to ensure that New York

12 State is business-friendly, ensuring that our

13 future doctors, nurses, accountants, and

14 engineers are able to obtain their licenses

15 in an efficient manner only makes sense.

16 Before I take your questions, I want

17 to once again thank you for all the

18 opportunities we've had to discuss our

19 priorities with you, and for your support

20 last year. We look forward to working with

21 you again on our shared goals.

22 And thank you, and we can move to

23 discussion now.

24 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you. I

202

1 call upon our Higher Ed chair, Deborah Glick.

2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Thank you,

3 Commissioner. Just a few questions.

4 I know you said that there were,

5 overall, 37,000 students who are assisted by

6 a variety of different programs for

7 opportunity programs.

8 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Yes.

9 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: At some point if

10 we could have a breakdown of how many

11 students are in each of those groups, it

12 would be helpful.

13 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Okay, we will

14 provide that for you, and the differences in

15 the various programs, and give you particular

16 numbers that we have on students from each of

17 the institutions that are serving them.

18 I think it's an eye-opener in terms of

19 those colleges and universities that really

20 take this seriously and are very focused on

21 it. So we'll be happy to do that, and we'll

22 provide it for everyone.

23 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: As well as for

24 things like Liberty Partnership, how many --

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1 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Yes.

2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Because those

3 are -- and CSTEP, those are -- different

4 areas of the state maybe have a greater

5 participation rate.

6 So we'd kind of like to understand --

7 I personally believe that the opportunity

8 programs serve an incredible range of young

9 people and are vital to ensuring that we have

10 a diverse college demographic, as well as

11 encouraging kids who -- at a younger age to

12 look at certain programs.

13 Now, I know that everybody is into

14 STEM. I'm wondering what the department

15 views as -- and what you're doing to deal

16 with STEAM.

17 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So STEM has now

18 evolved to STEAM.

19 So we have focused -- in fact, some of

20 the programs that you have, the Science and

21 Technology Entry program, the STEP program

22 and the CSTEP program, have a focus on STEAM.

23 And we will be, in the next -- probably the

24 next several months be rolling out an

204

1 opportunity for students to actually, in our

2 K-12 system, to be able to use an arts major

3 and certify and get their diploma through

4 that 4+1 category.

5 So there's a number of things that

6 we're doing. We've just recently adopted, in

7 K-12, the new art standards, so we're moving

8 on establishing them as well.

9 I have to say that when you look at

10 the opportunity programs that we have in

11 place and then you look at the graduation

12 rates for those students, they're -- because

13 of the support that they receive through

14 these programs, it is clear that they have --

15 those programs are working in the fact that

16 they have a high graduation rate compared to

17 all of the other institutions and the

18 students in the institutions where they're

19 attending. So those support programs are

20 very powerful for students.

21 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: There's no

22 question. And I think that there are some

23 institutions that have those programs and see

24 the value of them and are trying to figure

205

1 out how they can, for students who have been

2 accepted without being part of those

3 programs, how some of their students who

4 appear after a year to be more at risk for

5 retention purposes, to apply some of those

6 same principles to giving supports to those

7 students who were otherwise accepted on their

8 own merits.

9 And retention in the second year of

10 college is a key indicator of whether

11 somebody will succeed or not, and I've talked

12 to a number of presidents who see the value

13 particularly of their opportunity programs.

14 When it comes to the e-licensing,

15 obviously I'm very pleased to see that the

16 resources that have been collected over a

17 period of time for this purpose will be able

18 to be directed, hopefully, at the end of the

19 budget in that direction.

20 What is the projection of how long it

21 will take to move towards e-licensing in

22 those 20 licensed areas?

23 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, let me point

24 out that that fund is now at $4.2 million and

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1 that this is something that will take a

2 longer -- as you pointed out, this isn't

3 going to happen overnight. We're building a

4 system that can support it.

5 I'm going to ask Doug Lentivech if he

6 could respond on the specific timeline.

7 DEP. COMMISSIONER LENTIVECH: Yes,

8 thank you, Chair.

9 The 20 you speak about, these are

10 online applications we have out there now so

11 people don't have to put a postage stamp on

12 things and do things they did a hundred years

13 ago.

14 We're moving on a pretty rapid basis

15 to get all of the 54. It took 20 in, say,

16 the last year, so, you know, we could do the

17 math. In the next couple of years it would

18 be helpful to get all 54. But the real bulk

19 of the issue for the e-licensing program is

20 to get the back-office stuff going on. And

21 that's so that, you know, nurses around the

22 country, first, and then around the globe

23 will be able to get information to us and

24 they won't touch human hands.

207

1 And, you know, eventually we will get

2 there. But that's probably depending upon

3 what stage of the process -- if you're

4 talking about, say, New York nurses, that's

5 the easier lift, because they go to a program

6 in the state electronically connected to us,

7 they take an exam electronically connected to

8 us, and there's no experience requirement.

9 That's one you would expect to see in the

10 first year or so after implementation.

11 An engineer who's practiced in the

12 U.K., now you're talking about a more

13 difficult scenario. But that's our plans.

14 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: So for the most

15 difficult, maybe that's a five-year horizon,

16 10-year horizon? I'm just trying to

17 understand.

18 DEP. COMMISSIONER LENTIVECH: Well, I

19 would say probably, you know, five years gets

20 us -- you know, I'm optimistic, although

21 we've been at this since 1977. But I'm

22 optimistic here that we get the program, we

23 start doing it, and in five years we're

24 touching all the professions in ways that

208

1 we're licensing all the professions.

2 If you want to talk about those last

3 remnants, the very difficult cases, the

4 people that are educated and, you know,

5 seeking documentation from places that aren't

6 even hooked up to the internet, places that

7 are difficult to even find the schools,

8 they're not very comfortable with our

9 e-licensing system and the world is going to

10 have to come up to them.

11 So, you know, I can't make a guess.

12 I'm saying in five years we should be

13 touching all the professions; in 10 years,

14 hopefully, we're really running in the world.

15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: So within about

16 five years New York State residents will find

17 themselves in most professions being able to

18 make the application online. And then your

19 ability to move through that review will also

20 theoretically be much more expedited because

21 you'll have documentation submitted also --

22 not just an application, but the backup

23 material will also be electronically

24 transferred. So that for New York State

209

1 residents, we should see a dramatic

2 improvement within the five-year period.

3 DEP. COMMISSIONER LENTIVECH: Oh, I

4 would think so. I think that's --

5 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Much earlier than

6 that.

7 DEP. COMMISSIONER LENTIVECH: Yeah, I

8 think maybe earlier than that.

9 I think we are going to struggle --

10 and I have talked to other members of the

11 committee about, you know, some of the most

12 challenging aspects of licensing are for

13 people that we're not even certain that the

14 institution exists, and we use various

15 methods to try to do that. Those are always

16 going to be a struggle for us.

17 But I think, you know, you take the

18 group that can give you the most benefit --

19 there's 300,000 licensed nurses. They're a

20 big portion of what we do. And the majority,

21 the vast majority, come from New York. So if

22 you take care of licensed nurses coming from

23 New York, you're talking about a lot of our

24 licensed members.

210

1 So, you know, it's optimistic but I

2 think we'll -- I think we can put all the

3 resources that we saved on that on the next

4 level. So we're optimistic.

5 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: One last

6 question at this point. The ability for the

7 department to review new programs that

8 colleges and universities -- they want to add

9 either a BA or an MA in a particular area

10 which they had not previously been authorized

11 to do so. That has been an issue that has

12 been raised over time, and some of it was,

13 you know, a lack of personnel.

14 I'm wondering where that stands and

15 what your outlook is for the next year or

16 two.

17 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So I want to

18 appreciate the support that a number of both

19 Assemblymen and -women as well as our

20 Senators have done in supporting the

21 department and facilitating getting staff

22 appointed through the Division of Budget.

23 And we have in fact seen some support come

24 through for us. So in that particular

211

1 function that you're talking about, we have

2 been able to fill a number of positions.

3 As you're I'm sure aware -- and a

4 number of you have contacted us when there's

5 issues, and when we check back with John and

6 his staff, the reality is that very often the

7 process that's put in place -- that we have,

8 by the way, expedited, put reauthorizations

9 for various departments online, we have

10 streamlined the application so that it's much

11 easier now for them to do that. And in fact

12 I talked to Chancellor Johnson about looking

13 at ways that we can continue that work of

14 streamlining that process.

15 But given all that, when the

16 applications come to us and we're reviewing

17 them, there very often is this give and take

18 between the department staff going back and

19 saying, We need to have additional

20 information or additional guarantees on staff

21 members that you may be putting in place to

22 support the students in these programs. And

23 if that's missing, then it takes time between

24 the two agencies to do that.

212

1 So we're working very hard to make it

2 as expedited as possible, but also make sure

3 that when a program is opened, that it in

4 fact can serve the students that it accepts

5 into that program well, and support them so

6 that they can graduate with a degree.

7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Thank you very

8 much.

9 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Thank you.

10 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Senator Stavisky.

11 SENATOR STAVISKY: I notice on your

12 slide on page 19 that the licenses were

13 processed within two weeks. And

14 incidentally, I know you mentioned in your

15 testimony the increase in the licensure fees;

16 that was my bill, almost ten years ago. And

17 I'm obviously concerned about the use of

18 those fees.

19 Since the costs presumably are

20 declining, it's costing less and less to

21 process, and yet we increased the fees -- as

22 we should have. What is happening to those

23 fees? That's the first question.

24 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, right now

213

1 those fees are collected in an account, and

2 we don't have access to the ability to use

3 the fees. So that's one of the reasons that

4 we're coming to you and supporting, in fact,

5 the ability for the department to use the

6 fees that have already been collected and

7 establish an e-licensing procedure that

8 ultimately would really make that a much more

9 efficient approach.

10 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yup, I think that's

11 reasonable.

12 During the last two years of your

13 testimony, I've asked about the foreign

14 nurses. We've brought this issue up twice;

15 this is the third time. And I thank the

16 deputy commissioner for his responsiveness on

17 that issue.

18 But there have been terrible delays

19 when you use that foreign accrediting company

20 called CGFNS. And it's extremely difficult

21 for the graduate of a legitimate foreign

22 school who holds a bachelor's and a master's

23 degree. It happened to somebody I know very

24 well. She is from the Philippines, she has a

214

1 master's and a bachelor's degree from a very

2 legitimate university, and it took her almost

3 nine months to get the licensure approved by

4 SED because she was forced to go through this

5 licensure company.

6 And my suggestion to you is that you

7 should, I think, put the material from the

8 licensure, from this company that does the

9 foreign accreditation. If it's online, then

10 perhaps we might be able to speed up the

11 process.

12 I know that nurses pay something like

13 $140; I don't remember the exact amount. It

14 costs $390 to use that accreditation company,

15 and it doesn't work because they don't do

16 what they're supposed to do. And you're not

17 allowed, according to the old website at SED,

18 to contact them because then you would void

19 the entire process completely.

20 So this is something that perhaps the

21 Commissioner would address and look at how we

22 can make it easier. And the reason I'm so

23 concerned is that I represent a district in

24 Queens that is really a high-immigrant

215

1 population, particularly from Asia. And we

2 have many really wonderful people coming to

3 the United States with advanced degrees, and

4 we should be using them if there's a nursing

5 shortage. It ought to be addressed.

6 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, I appreciate

7 your comment. I remember last year you

8 brought it to us, and Doug and I had specific

9 conversations about it. We changed the

10 website in many areas. We are still making

11 updates in our website.

12 And one of the other things that we

13 did was that we took away that requirement

14 that they had to have gone through that other

15 agency. But it doesn't take away our

16 responsibility to make sure that they in fact

17 have the requisite training so that we can

18 license them.

19 So you're absolutely right, Senator

20 Stavisky, that is an issue for us. And as we

21 are becoming more attuned to how we can get

22 -- how we can find agencies that either are

23 good and responsible about getting those

24 records to us, or we can encourage

216

1 individuals who are trying to get their

2 certifications and licensure to come and work

3 with us closely.

4 I know that Doug has taken specific

5 time working with some of the individuals

6 that are here in areas -- as you pointed out,

7 nursing is one of the ones that we need staff

8 across the state, and actually across the

9 country. So it does open up lots of

10 opportunities. It's an issue and a challenge

11 for us that we know we have to take on.

12 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you.

13 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

14 Assemblywoman Hooper.

15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HOOPER: Thank you.

16 Commissioner, thank you so very much

17 for being here today. It's a delight to see

18 you here.

19 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Thank you very

20 much.

21 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HOOPER: I want to

22 really impart to you how much I appreciate

23 what you have been doing -- certainly it's

24 probably statewide, what is happening in the

217

1 Hempstead Union Free School District. And

2 your input, your staff, your communication

3 with me, ongoing, your tenacity is greatly

4 appreciated, and it's felt.

5 And I want to apprise you and to

6 assure you that I look forward to working

7 with you as we begin to turn around these

8 long-term, overdue issues that permeate the

9 inability for students to get education in

10 that district, as well as the professionals

11 and the support staff who have a right to ply

12 their trades.

13 I encourage your continued attention.

14 I thank you for going to the district last

15 week and speaking to the appropriate persons.

16 And I want to assure you that it would be

17 unfair for me to ask you to give me a

18 detailed premature outcome of what you have

19 so far begun, but I want you to know that we

20 in the Hempstead community look forward to

21 working with you, and we thank you for

22 working with us to assure that this is

23 resolved once and for all.

24 Thank you so much for being here.

218

1 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, I appreciate

2 your comments, Deputy Speaker Hooper. And as

3 we've talked, I am committed to the Hempstead

4 School District and to the work that my staff

5 and I are doing there. And we believe we'll

6 be moving forward.

7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HOOPER: Thank you

8 kindly. Good to see you.

9 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Thank you.

10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HOOPER: And please let

11 the persons who work with you, Bianchi and

12 the other staff and the Deputy Commissioner

13 and Rosa, I thank them very, very much for

14 all the help we're getting from the State

15 Education Department. Again, thank you.

16 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Thanks.

17 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you,

18 Commissioner.

19 I just have a couple of questions.

20 And they're really less budget-related than

21 they are issues that come under your purview.

22 As you may or may not know, in 2014

23 Assemblymember Gottfried and I sponsored the

24 Compassionate Care Act in New York State,

219

1 which is the program that created medical

2 marijuana. And I realize now that I'm

3 probably going to spend the rest of my career

4 working on that program. It's like an onion;

5 we just keep peeling back layers. So we're

6 constantly finding new areas that we have to

7 work on.

8 One of the issues that came to our

9 attention in the past year is many of the

10 patients are children, and they attend

11 schools. And so they're attending school and

12 they're certified medical marijuana patients,

13 they bring their medication with them, but

14 nurses in many of the schools were afraid to

15 dispense it because they felt that there was

16 a conflict with their license.

17 Now, I know recently your department,

18 your deputy counsel issued a response to our

19 request for clarification about nurses who

20 were dispensing medical marijuana in --

21 whether it's a school or somewhere else, that

22 the department won't hold that against them,

23 that it won't be considered illegal. And I

24 thank you for that; it's very important.

220

1 What I would ask you to do, though, is

2 to more widely distribute that to school

3 districts around the state because we are

4 constantly getting requests from schools to

5 clarify this policy.

6 And then there's also the issue that

7 some nurses and some practitioners may not

8 want to participate in the program, and

9 that's fine. They're allowed to refuse to do

10 so. But then there has to be some way that a

11 student who attends school, brings their

12 legal medical marijuana medication with them,

13 is able to have it administered to them.

14 Some school districts have suggested

15 the parents come to school, which may be --

16 it may not be possible. I got a letter from

17 one school that was really struggling with

18 how to solve this, but they believed that

19 even if they allowed a parent to attend the

20 time of day that the child needed to have

21 their medication dispensed, that they would

22 have to remove the child from the school a

23 thousand feet away so as not to conflict with

24 the federal Drug-Free School Act.

221

1 So again, any effort that your

2 department can play in clarifying and widely

3 distributing the answer to this -- because I

4 believe as the program grows and more

5 children are enrolled in it, it's going to

6 become a bigger problem. So I think clarity

7 is critically important in a program like

8 this.

9 COMMISSIONER ELIA: When that was

10 brought to us, as you pointed out, we did a

11 clarification. We also distributed that

12 clarification to every district in New York

13 State.

14 SENATOR SAVINO: Good, thank you.

15 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So letting us know

16 that we have an issue with people not

17 understanding or perhaps not seeing it, we

18 will move forward on that. I do understand

19 the situation.

20 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you.

21 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Assemblywoman

22 Nolan.

23 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Thank you. So

24 glad to see the Commissioner here --

222

1 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Great to see you.

2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: -- and with the

3 full support of Chancellor Rosa and so many

4 members of the Board of Regents and your

5 wonderful staff. I see Jen -- tireless

6 workers, Jen {inaudible} from this

7 department.

8 So really glad to be here on a great

9 day with women leading all over the place --

10 chancellors, commissioners, chairs of

11 committees. It's very exciting after so many

12 years of sitting here when it was different.

13 But I have one quick question about

14 the Bridge to College and Careers Pilot

15 Program. And you were nice enough to give a

16 shout-out to LaGuardia Community College,

17 which does such a wonderful job. And you're

18 requesting $3 million, and I guess I'd like

19 on the record, where is it in the budget

20 proposal?

21 COMMISSIONER ELIA: It is in one of

22 the agendas that we have --

23 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Right. But is

24 it in the Executive's proposal?

223

1 COMMISSIONER ELIA: No, it's not in

2 the Executive proposals. Thank you for

3 pointing that out.

4 We would like it to be in everyone's

5 proposal. We think that this is a great

6 opportunity. And I believe that you -- you

7 actually were the one that facilitated the

8 meeting that I had at LaGuardia concerning

9 their program and reviewing it. And they

10 have incredible data to show the success of

11 that program, and that really led to the

12 Regents feeling that this was a great model

13 for us to attempt to take across the state.

14 So up to 10 districts would be able to

15 put that Bridge program in place and use the

16 LaGuardia model.

17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Well, we're

18 excited about it.

19 You know, the Governor was visiting

20 LaGuardia just last year to announce his

21 college tuition program, and I know that, you

22 know, we'd be happy to continue to press him

23 to support the College and Career Program,

24 the Bridge to College Readiness Program.

224

1 It's an outstanding thing. Disappointing it

2 wasn't in the budget, but you know, the

3 Legislature -- I know Assemblywoman Glick has

4 made it a priority, and certainly adult ed is

5 a priority of mine, representing many people

6 in my district who continue to struggle later

7 in life, maybe not having the skills to read

8 and write well in English.

9 So we thank you for the work you do,

10 and thanks for the shout-out for LaGuardia,

11 and all the Regents that are here, all these

12 hardworking -- I don't want Bill Colton to

13 feel bad. We've got a lot of hardworking

14 women at the panel here, and it's exciting --

15 a few others. But very excited to be here

16 today, and congratulations to you again,

17 Commissioner, for your work.

18 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Thank you, Chair

19 Nolan.

20 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

21 Senator Krueger.

22 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

23 And I'm sorry, I had to run out for a

24 sub meeting.

225

1 So in your material -- and if someone

2 asked while I was gone, just tell me too

3 late, I missed it. But in your materials you

4 talk about the data on if you have a college

5 degree, if you don't, your first slide. And

6 then I think your second and third slides.

7 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Right.

8 SENATOR KRUEGER: And the data appears

9 to be from national statistics. Are those

10 New York-specific data pulled out of a larger

11 national statistical bank?

12 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So the references

13 are on each specific slide. The first slide

14 specifically is from the National Center for

15 Education Statistics, and that's the national

16 view. And that's the most up-to-date; it's

17 2017.

18 And then when you look on the second

19 page, the most up-to-date that we have there

20 is the new skills at work, and it looks

21 specifically for New Yorkers. And the source

22 is "Closing America's Skills Gap: A Business

23 Roundtable Vision and Action Plan." However,

24 that is not updated from the 2014. So that's

226

1 the most up-to-date information there.

2 And then the next one is actually the

3 College Access & Completion Matters, and that

4 is from Career Outlook from the U.S. Bureau

5 of Labor Statistics, and again that's a 2017.

6 So two of them are very, very current,

7 and one of them is from 2014.

8 SENATOR KRUEGER: So my reason for

9 asking whether we had New York-specific data,

10 I was wondering whether you can then in fact

11 go in and see by institution or field.

12 Because we talk about you have X degree and

13 it means Y, but it doesn't always mean Y. It

14 could mean, you know, one-half of Y, or 3

15 times Y.

16 And do we do anything where we look at

17 the correlation of specific kinds of degrees

18 or specific degrees from specific

19 institutions and outcomes?

20 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, let me point

21 out, in my experience that really should be a

22 requirement that is placed on those

23 institutions that give the degrees. And one

24 of our issues that we have in New York is we

227

1 aren't always connected.

2 And so you have degree-granting

3 institutions where we don't know exactly what

4 jobs the person may go into, what

5 opportunities they've had after they've

6 received their degree. And I know that I've

7 had conversations with SUNY and CUNY about

8 the need for a connected data system so that

9 we have that kind of data and we can make

10 decisions and you can make decisions based on

11 where we can really target and know where we

12 have to put programs that will support

13 students to complete and then, once they

14 complete, to get into the job market.

15 SENATOR KRUEGER: So yesterday I

16 participated with some colleagues and the

17 Erie County D.A. in a press conference about

18 the fact that private schools in New York --

19 this would be K through 12, even though this

20 is a higher ed hearing, but you're both --

21 don't have to report as mandatory reporters

22 when there are abuse situations. And I'm

23 curious what the SED's position is, either

24 for colleges or for the K-12 world about

228

1 people who receive state money having to

2 report when they know that there's abuse

3 going on.

4 COMMISSIONER ELIA: I'm adamant that

5 that should be a requirement across the

6 state.

7 SENATOR KRUEGER: And is it a

8 requirement for our colleges?

9 COMMISSIONER ELIA: We have the

10 college program Enough is Enough that was

11 passed at -- in fact, that's the Campus

12 Sexual Assault Prevention Act that was

13 passed.

14 There are multiple agencies that work

15 to support that, including the Division of

16 State Police, the services of the rape crisis

17 centers across the state, and college

18 campuses themselves. SED's role in that is

19 to collect the data and then make that

20 available.

21 And since this program was put in

22 place -- it was passed in 2015 -- there was a

23 lag time of getting all of those different

24 agencies on page. We are now -- I think

229

1 we're in the process of putting out an

2 interim report on where we are, but we'll

3 have the full report in September -- October

4 of this year.

5 But yes, we do believe that we have

6 covered the colleges, but we don't have those

7 same rules in place for other schools.

8 SENATOR KRUEGER: And you talk

9 about -- I'm sorry, on page 16, disciplinary

10 investigations completed, 6,576. Are these

11 on individuals that are licensed in

12 professions, or institutions, or some

13 combination? What does that data actually

14 mean?

15 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So your referral

16 was to the disciplinary investigations

17 completed?

18 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, it's on

19 page 16, "Professions 2017 Results."

20 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Okay. Doug?

21 DEP. COMMISSIONER LENTIVECH: Yeah,

22 those are -- we have disciplinary authority

23 over primarily individuals, but also we have

24 disciplinary authority over professional

230

1 corporations, pharmacy registrants, that sort

2 of thing.

3 This is the totality of anybody that

4 calls us on all those things, but the

5 overwhelming majority is individuals. The

6 majority is individuals, but we do have

7 authority over corporations. If a pharmacist

8 is the supervising pharmacist of a pharmacy,

9 they will both end up being disciplinary

10 cases, they will both be investigated. But

11 most of our cases are individuals. Most of

12 our licensees are nurses, so they make up

13 close to 40-some percent, and those are all

14 individuals.

15 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you. Thank

16 you.

17 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Assemblywoman

18 Hyndman.

19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HYNDMAN: Thank you very

20 much, Chancellor Elia. Thank you for coming

21 to Queens on behalf of Chairwoman Nolan, and

22 just the work that you're doing throughout

23 the state. I think you're bringing a breath

24 of fresh air, and you're very accessible.

231

1 And thank you to Jennifer and your staff,

2 who's been helpful in answering my questions.

3 Just kind of along the lines of what

4 Senator Krueger was asking when it comes to

5 the proprietary school sector, you're dealing

6 with a lot of private schools, but at the

7 same time they are subject to rules and

8 regulations. What if anything is being done

9 regarding sexual harassment reporting?

10 Or if nothing's being done, is that

11 something we can work on making sure that the

12 schools put something in their catalog or

13 printed materials what their policies are and

14 what reporting they will be doing regarding

15 sexual harassment, whether it's staff or

16 students?

17 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So Jen just

18 informed me, the Enough is Enough campus

19 sexual assault prevention and reporting is

20 for degree-granting institutions. And not

21 all of the proprietary schools are

22 degree-granting. So there is that issue that

23 some are and some are not.

24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HYNDMAN: So my question

232

1 is, don't you think that this sector -- that

2 has over 400 schools with over 15,000

3 students throughout New York State -- should

4 have some type of reporting in place or

5 policy looked at regarding those schools?

6 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, I do. And

7 that gets back to Senator Krueger's comment.

8 I do believe that that should be part of what

9 is an overall review of what's happening in

10 our campuses. So the fact that we have a

11 group that are not, I would suggest that that

12 be addressed.

13 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HYNDMAN: Okay. My

14 other question is I notice in the handout

15 there's no place at all that speaks to those

16 schools, the proprietary sector, at all. And

17 those schools do generate revenue which is --

18 which they are assessed on through assessment

19 and fees. And their budget is swept every

20 time there's a -- usually during the budget

21 process, they are swept.

22 You didn't include any of that

23 information in this report. Is it not

24 relevant or is it not part of this --

233

1 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So we didn't have

2 any specific references to proprietary

3 schools. We do have data on proprietary

4 schools, and we'd be happy to provide that to

5 you.

6 ASSEMBLYWOMAN HYNDMAN: Okay, thank

7 you.

8 COMMISSIONER ELIA: We'll make sure

9 you get that.

10 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

11 Hi. I just wanted to say hello. I

12 apologize, I had to duck out to go over to

13 the chamber for session. But I just wanted

14 to say so glad that you're here, and I look

15 forward to the Education Hearing also.

16 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Thank you.

17 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

18 Thank you for being here also, and we'll see

19 you next week.

20 COMMISSIONER ELIA: That's it. Next

21 week.

22 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: So next we have

23 the New York State Higher Education Services

24 Corporation, Elsa Magee, executive vice

234

1 president.

2 Whenever you're ready.

3 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: Good

4 afternoon, Chairwoman Young, Chairwoman

5 Weinstein, Chairperson Glick, and members of

6 the Senate and Assembly. Thank you for the

7 opportunity to speak today about the

8 Governor's 2018-2019 Executive Budget

9 recommendations that impact the New York

10 State Higher Education Services Corporation,

11 or HESC.

12 I'm Elsa Magee, executive vice

13 president of HESC, and today I'm providing

14 testimony on behalf of Acting President

15 Dr. Guillermo Linares.

16 HESC does not participate in the

17 policy-making process but is instead

18 responsible for administering more than two

19 dozen New York State student financial aid

20 and college access programs that help to ease

21 college costs for New York State residents.

22 Collectively, these programs provide nearly

23 $1.1 billion in financial aid awards to

24 support the costs of approximately

235

1 400,000 students who are attending public and

2 private colleges inside our state. This

3 includes roughly $750 million for students

4 attending public colleges and over

5 $300 million for students attending a private

6 college.

7 Governor Cuomo's 2018-2019 Executive

8 Budget continues to ensure all New Yorkers

9 can go to college and achieve their dreams by

10 providing full support for all existing state

11 grant, scholarship and loan forgiveness

12 programs.

13 Last year, building on the state's

14 generous tuition assistance programs, the

15 Governor launched the Excelsior Scholarship,

16 which provided tuition-free college for

17 middle-class families. The first-of-its-kind

18 program in the nation covers tuition at New

19 York’s public colleges and universities to

20 families making up to $125,000 a year,

21 ensuring this year that more than 53 percent

22 of full-time SUNY and CUNY in-state students

23 are going to school tuition-free. For

24 2018-2019, the Excelsior Scholarship will

236

1 enter the second of its three-year phase-in,

2 under which the income eligibility threshold

3 will increase to allow New Yorkers with

4 household incomes up to $110,000 to be

5 eligible to attend a public college

6 tuition-free, and ensure that more families

7 have access to a quality education and the

8 skills needed to succeed in the 21st-century

9 economy.

10 To continue this landmark program, the

11 Executive Budget includes $118 million to

12 support 27,000 students in the Excelsior

13 Scholarship program in 2018-2019 and provides

14 $22.9 million for the Enhanced Tuition Awards

15 program.

16 Each year, many talented students

17 remain unable to fulfill their potential

18 because they lack access to tuition

19 assistance to help pay for college. The

20 Governor's 2018-2019 budget proposal

21 reintroduces the DREAM Act and includes

22 $27 million to open the doors of higher

23 education to thousands of New Yorkers.

24 At a time when a college education is

237

1 more important than ever, student debt

2 continues to reach record highs, accounting

3 for 10 percent of our nation’s debt balance

4 and amounting to $1.48 trillion. To combat

5 the exploding student debt, the Governor has

6 proposed a series of new reforms that will be

7 managed by the New York State Department of

8 Financial Services, which I'd like to

9 highlight briefly including the creation of a

10 Student Loan Ombudsman; requiring that all

11 New York State colleges annually provide

12 students with estimated amounts incurred for

13 student loans; increasing consumer protection

14 standards throughout the student loan

15 industry, including requiring student loan

16 servicers to be licensed, and including

17 consumer protections for student debt

18 consultants to operate in NY State; and,

19 fourth, prohibiting the suspension of

20 professional licenses of individuals who are

21 behind or in default on their student loans.

22 Through these measures, the Governor will

23 ensure that current and future New Yorkers

24 are protected.

238

1 In closing, Governor Cuomo is leading

2 the nation in expanding access to a quality

3 and affordable college education. The

4 2018-2019 Executive Budget increases state

5 support for higher education to $7.5 billion,

6 an increase of $1.4 billion -- or 24 percent

7 -- since fiscal year 2012. Under his

8 leadership, New York has implemented an

9 unprecedented number of new and strategic

10 student financial aid programs and

11 initiatives to make college more affordable

12 and encourage the best and brightest students

13 to build their future in New York, including

14 the landmark Excelsior Scholarship, the

15 Enhanced Tuition Awards Program, the STEM

16 Incentive Program, the NYS Get On Your Feet

17 Loan Forgiveness Program, the

18 Masters-in-Education Teacher Incentive

19 Scholarship, and the New York State Standard

20 Financial Aid Award Letter. His

21 recommendations for higher education programs

22 continue to pave a path to an affordable and

23 high quality college education.

24 The 2018-2019 Executive Budget enables

239

1 HESC to continue administering an array of

2 programs and services that support the

3 attainment of a college degree for all

4 New York State students. On behalf of

5 Governor Cuomo, HESC is pleased to play a

6 vital role in providing New York State's

7 students with a gateway to a successful

8 college career.

9 Thank you, and I'd be happy to answer

10 any questions.

11 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

12 Assemblywoman Glick.

13 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Good afternoon.

14 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: Good

15 afternoon.

16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: And thank you

17 for your assistance in understanding some of

18 the more arcane portions of the TAP program.

19 Not only do you administer TAP and now

20 Excelsior, but there are a host of smaller

21 programs -- I don't expect you to have that

22 information with you today, but if you could

23 provide the committee with an understanding

24 of -- I mean, we see the numbers, but how

240

1 many students are assisted in each of those

2 individual scholarship or loan forgiveness

3 programs? That would be helpful for us to

4 understand the context.

5 Somewhere between 22,000 and 23,000

6 students are being assisted by Excelsior.

7 How many applications did HESC receive?

8 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: So we

9 received 95,000 applications for students

10 applying for Excelsior. 46,000 students are

11 actually eligible, they meet the eligibility

12 requirement. Roughly half of those, 23,000,

13 had their tuition covered through programs

14 such as TAP and Pell, and 23,000 had

15 remaining tuition expense which is being

16 covered by Excelsior.

17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: What was the

18 last thing you said?

19 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: 23,000

20 students are having their tuitions covered by

21 Excelsior, but there are actually 46,000

22 students who are eligible.

23 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: And what

24 happened to the other 23,000?

241

1 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: 23,000

2 students had their tuitions covered through

3 programs such as TAP and Pell. When they

4 combined those awards, it was already

5 covering their tuition.

6 But those students would not have to

7 apply again if their other awards were

8 reduced; they would then simply be receiving

9 awards. So we have the potential for 46,000

10 students to be receiving a payment under the

11 program.

12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: There may have

13 been some students who were in the other

14 upper ranges of income who wouldn't qualify

15 for Pell but might qualify for some TAP but

16 not a lot. At some point if the committee

17 could sort of see what that distribution was

18 like for Excelsior, that would be helpful.

19 Obviously there were lots of students who

20 applied who were above the 80,000, so they

21 would never have gotten any TAP, but there

22 were folks along that continuum.

23 So at some point we'd really like to

24 understand the distribution that actually

242

1 occurred.

2 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: And we're

3 still working through the process. We're now

4 just certifying the first fall semester

5 recipients. But once we have a full year's

6 data, we can certainly provide it by income

7 range for you.

8 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: That's great.

9 Thank you.

10 Along with that, since we believe that

11 computers can help you do anything,

12 understanding how many were new students and

13 how many were current students who may have

14 been sophomores or juniors or what have

15 you -- we'd like that distribution as well.

16 We really want to get a good handle on who

17 was actually participating and if somebody

18 was near the end of their college career,

19 that would perhaps open up more resources for

20 students coming in at some point.

21 So we'd like to see all of those

22 distributions when you have the full

23 shake-out.

24 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: We can

243

1 certainly do that.

2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Now, because it

3 was a large onslaught -- we recognize it was

4 an overwhelming avalanche -- how long did it

5 take for the bulk of students to get

6 notified?

7 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: It ranged.

8 There were students who were notified within

9 days of applying because they were, as you

10 can expect, new students. Once they were

11 verified that they did not previously attend

12 colleges and these were first-time freshmen,

13 they could receive notification.

14 But then we also had students who were

15 looking to catch up on credits during the

16 summer. So it took us until -- schools not

17 able to really verify until the end of August

18 whether these students had earned enough

19 credits to become eligible. So it ranged

20 greatly depending on a particular student's

21 situation.

22 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: I was in touch

23 with folks -- both the Governor's office and

24 at HESC. It seemed there were about 6,000

244

1 students in October who still weren't sure

2 whether they were in or out. What accounted

3 for that?

4 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: We worked

5 with SUNY and CUNY, who was looking to do the

6 verification. The holdup was really in being

7 able to verify credits that the student was

8 earning. There were some students who had

9 been doing study abroad, and it was our

10 understanding that it takes longer for the

11 credit information to come for study-abroad

12 students.

13 There were students that we were still

14 waiting for information on where income may

15 not have been able to be verified for various

16 reasons. So we did, you know, numerous

17 outreach to students where we could triage if

18 we were still waiting for income information.

19 There were students who it was unclear

20 whether they were state residents, they met

21 the 12 continuous months, where they had to

22 provide supporting documentation.

23 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Going forward,

24 having had this experience, are there things

245

1 that HESC believes it can or should do to

2 improve the application information -- or the

3 criteria, I guess is what I'm saying, the

4 eligibility criteria.

5 Because it seems that there were -- if

6 you're saying that, well, 23,000 were

7 accepted and there were 23,000 others who

8 could have been if it hadn't been for the

9 fact they were already getting full

10 assistance -- so between 95,000 and 46,000,

11 there are tens of thousands of families and

12 youngsters who may have thought that they

13 were eligible but for some reason weren't.

14 That could have been -- some of it could be

15 accounted for: You know, apply, throw it

16 over the wall and hope. And then there were

17 some who perhaps could not figure out clearly

18 what the criteria was and whether they

19 actually met it.

20 So what has HESC done to figure that

21 out and do a better job of making it clear to

22 students who are perhaps in school now, and

23 those who are new students, whether they have

24 a good chance of being part of the Excelsior

246

1 Scholarship?

2 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: Well, our

3 experience with Excelsior just in this first

4 term alone shows it's consistent with our

5 experience with the TAP program. Which after

6 45 years, we're still seeing a roughly 50

7 percent approval ratio of students who are

8 applying for TAP.

9 The reasons for the ineligibility is

10 very consistent -- including residency,

11 income -- between TAP and Excelsior. But as

12 far as notification of students, I think what

13 -- we provide full information on our

14 website. I think one thing that we know is

15 that the generation of students that we work

16 with are less likely to read, so we are going

17 to be making information available via video

18 as to what the eligibility requirements are

19 for the programs, in the hopes that people

20 will, you know, be able to get a better

21 understanding from the videos if they're not

22 looking to go read all of the information

23 that we make available as to the eligibility

24 requirements.

247

1 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: And I probably

2 should have done this before the hearing, but

3 I didn't go on the website to see whether

4 it's updated or not. I know that over time

5 there have been some additional programs that

6 have been added, and they sort of got added

7 at the bottom after the how do you get -- you

8 know, re pay. So people who may have been

9 looking didn't look all the way down.

10 Have you reconfigured the website so

11 that all of the programs are higher up so

12 that anybody looking at the website will know

13 all of the options that are available?

14 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: From our

15 website, if you're looking to look for

16 scholarships to pay for college, there is a

17 tab that goes to pay, how to pay for college.

18 And when you click on that, you will see all

19 of our grant programs and then you can look

20 for all of our scholarships as well.

21 But you would be able to find the

22 Excelsior Scholarship and Enhanced Tuition

23 Scholarships easily from our site.

24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Well, what I was

248

1 thinking of were some of the -- there was a

2 veteran program and the foster youth, which

3 at some point was added on and actually

4 didn't pop up immediately on the tabs. So

5 you're saying that's been corrected.

6 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: I'll take a

7 look to see where the veterans and foster

8 youth programs are. But I know the

9 scholarships are all listed under "How to pay

10 for college."

11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Thank you.

12 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

13 Well, welcome, Executive Vice

14 President Magee. We're glad to have you here

15 today.

16 And I would like to piggyback on

17 Assemblywoman Glick's comments, first of all,

18 regarding the Excelsior program.

19 And it recently came to my attention

20 that there was a FOIL document that was

21 submitted and that it revealed that Empire

22 State Development spent $3 million last May

23 and June in marketing Excelsior. And while

24 those dollars aren't HESC dollars, there is a

249

1 concern to Assemblywoman Glick's point that

2 there are several programs that operate under

3 HESC that maybe aren't being marketed as they

4 should be so that people know about them.

5 So one, for example, that we've heard

6 from advocates about has to do with the

7 social work loan forgiveness program and

8 marketing that. So there is kind of a little

9 alluding in the Governor's Executive proposal

10 that there would be an internal review of

11 marketing for HESC programs. Can you tell us

12 about that, what that might entail?

13 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: Well, we

14 currently do not have funding that's targeted

15 for advertising, currently for any of our

16 programs. We typically work with sectors

17 like licensed social workers. We do work

18 with the professional organizations for

19 licensed social workers, to spread the word

20 about the program, and they tend to be more

21 targeted.

22 We similarly work with the Department

23 of Ag and Markets and the farming industry to

24 advertise information about the young

250

1 farmers' loan forgiveness programs.

2 So we have really tried to engage with

3 the professional organizations for these

4 specific programs to ensure that anyone who

5 would be eligible for the program would be

6 aware of it, especially when the time frame

7 for applying is limited. We make sure we

8 notify them in time, just ahead of when the

9 application becomes available each year.

10 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you for that

11 answer.

12 As far as the Excelsior program goes,

13 it seems to me that there was a lot of

14 confusion when it was first rolled out. And

15 it also seems to me that the most effective

16 entities that you can deal with to educate

17 students about the program would be guidance

18 counselors. Instead of spending $3 million,

19 for example -- I know it wasn't your money --

20 but spending $3 million on TV ads, that it

21 should be outreach about educating guidance

22 counselors.

23 Is HESC doing anything along those

24 lines?

251

1 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: Yes, we

2 work directly with guidance counselors to

3 inform them about the programs, and that was

4 done for both Excelsior and ETA.

5 For Excelsior, there were also emails

6 sent to every high school junior and senior

7 who took the SAT or PSAT exam, so they

8 directly received information. Families were

9 informed through school portals as well as

10 about the program and the eligibility

11 requirements for the program, so there was --

12 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay, so that's an

13 ongoing thing, that you continue to talk to.

14 How do you communicate with them? Is it

15 through emails, or --

16 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: We provide

17 newsletters. We're actually working with

18 school district superintendents now to make

19 sure that we're touching every guidance

20 counselor, because right now we contact those

21 who notify us. But now we're going to just

22 be more proactive to ensure that we have,

23 from school districts, the contact

24 information for every guidance counselor, so

252

1 everyone is sure to know about the programs.

2 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you. And I

3 would encourage you to continue to do that,

4 because that makes a lot of sense.

5 Switching gears, Senator LaValle, as

6 you know, is our chair of the Higher

7 Education Committee in the Senate, and one of

8 his priorities last year during the budget

9 negotiations was developing an award to

10 provide assistance to students attending

11 community college on a part-time basis. As

12 we know, oftentimes students at community

13 colleges are what we would term

14 nontraditional students -- maybe they're

15 older, maybe they've lost their job and they

16 need to develop new work skills, and they may

17 have the demands of a family or not enough

18 resources to go to school full-time. So we

19 put $3.1 million in the budget for this

20 program last year.

21 But although the Governor's proposal

22 actually appropriates an additional

23 $3.1 million for the program, it's my

24 understanding that the HESC governing board

253

1 has not approved any regulations allowing the

2 program to be created. And it's been eight

3 months since the board approved regulations

4 to establish the Excelsior Scholarship and

5 Enhanced Tuition Award last May, and over

6 nine months since the scholarship program was

7 actually enacted into law.

8 So the question that I have is when

9 can we expect the part-time program to be put

10 into place, established and off the ground?

11 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: The program

12 will be put in place this semester. We have

13 been providing information on our website

14 about the program. We have students or

15 parents who want to register to be notified

16 as soon as the application becomes available.

17 We -- the application will be

18 available -- we hope to meet soon with the

19 board and we're ready to launch the program.

20 And when we do launch the program, students

21 will be getting the awards retroactive for

22 the whole year. No one will be harmed.

23 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Oh, okay, so that

24 was a question.

254

1 Is there any particular issue that

2 held up the implementation?

3 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: No, we've

4 just been working through the regulations for

5 the program. And again, we're trying to make

6 sure as we roll out each new program, we

7 streamline the process as much as possible so

8 we're prepared to move quickly.

9 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you. I'm

10 glad to hear you say that it would be

11 retroactive, I think that's really good.

12 So when can we realistically expect

13 students to benefit? Because you said this

14 semester. But do you have kind of a target

15 date that you're working toward?

16 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: We would

17 hope -- we can roll it out as soon as we have

18 our board meeting. We're ready to roll it

19 out the next day. So we're hoping very soon.

20 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: When is your board

21 meeting?

22 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: We're

23 looking to schedule a board meeting within

24 the next week or two.

255

1 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Great, okay. Well,

2 thank you very much.

3 Oh, we're back to the Senate. Very

4 good. Senator Stavisky.

5 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you. And

6 thank you for your explanations for many

7 issues, and your experience, which is really

8 invaluable.

9 One question. What is happening to

10 student debt? And do you track the

11 individual students and help them understand

12 the financial implications?

13 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: As a

14 guaranty agency, we guarantee federal student

15 loans. What we are finding is that -- what

16 we're seeing at our agency is that

17 students who are going into default --

18 there's fewer going into default, but the

19 volume of debt that they carry is larger.

20 What we try to inform students of is

21 the availability of the many income-driven

22 repayment programs that are available through

23 the federal government, where no one really

24 should be struggling to repay their student

256

1 loans. These programs, you can pay as little

2 as zero or up to 10 to 15 percent of your

3 disposable income.

4 So that's what -- we try to encourage

5 everyone, before they enter into default, to

6 take advantage of these programs.

7 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you.

8 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

9 Senator Krueger.

10 SENATOR KRUEGER: Hi. So about a

11 month ago, Congress proposed a bill they're

12 calling PROSPER, 542 pages. It covers

13 everything from free speech on campus to the

14 application for federal aid. It calls for

15 reducing the number of federal loan types,

16 capping the amount graduate students and

17 parents can borrow, changing the current

18 suite of student loan options, doing away

19 with the rules that the last administration

20 had implemented to assure that if you flunk

21 some basic tests in successful completion

22 rates by students, you weren't eligible for

23 federal loans and you actually had to allow

24 the students to write off the debt.

257

1 I don't know if you have had a chance

2 to look at this proposal yet, but it would

3 seem to me to fly in the face of pretty much

4 everything the Governor and the Legislature

5 here in New York is trying to do.

6 Is there anyone looking at what this

7 federal proposal is and what we would need to

8 do to protect our students here in New York

9 if in fact this package of seven proposals --

10 as far as I can tell, five of which are

11 fairly terrifying -- actually got implemented

12 by Congress?

13 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: I'm not

14 familiar with the package. We do have

15 someone -- we would be happy to take a look

16 at that and discuss the impact that it may

17 have on students here in New York.

18 SENATOR KRUEGER: I would urge you to

19 do so and then to help us understand the

20 ramifications for all our college students

21 here in New York. Because my minimal

22 understanding, in reading the summary of the

23 542-page bill, is this will be a tragedy for

24 students attempting to go to college in

258

1 New York State if not the other 49 states.

2 Thank you.

3 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you. I think

4 we're done.

5 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Thank you very

6 much. We look forward to having some of

7 those -- you know, when you have run all the

8 numbers, we look forward to having that

9 information.

10 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE:

11 Absolutely.

12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Thank you very

13 much.

14 EX. VICE PRESIDENT MAGEE: Thank you.

15 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you for being

16 here today.

17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: The next panel

18 is the NYSUT panel: Andy Pallotta, Fred

19 Kowal, Barbara Bowen, Chris Black.

20 Thank you, one and all, for being

21 here. If I haven't had a chance to say so,

22 Happy New Year.

23 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Hi, everybody.

24 MR. PALLOTTA: Hi.

259

1 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So we're

2 summarizing today rather than reading.

3 MR. PALLOTTA: Yes, yes, there will be

4 quick summaries, no reading.

5 Chairperson Young and Chairperson

6 Weinstein and members of the Assembly and

7 Senate, thank you for having us here today to

8 be able to present before you. We represent,

9 at NYSUT, over 600,000 teachers,

10 school-related professionals, professional

11 faculty in higher ed and healthcare. Today

12 we're representing over 80,000 faculty and

13 professional staff at colleges and

14 universities around the state.

15 I am joined by Dr. Fred Kowal from

16 UUP, Dr. Barbara Bowen from PSC, Dr. Mike

17 Fabricant from PSC, and Chris Black from

18 NYSUT Legislation.

19 You have a copy of my testimony, so

20 I'll be very brief. We start out with the

21 concept here today that due to years of

22 austere budgets, CUNY and SUNY have not had

23 the resources they need to address the

24 demands for additional full-time faculty, and

260

1 this is the major issue we're facing.

2 The enactment of the Excelsior

3 Scholarship Program last year was a first

4 step, and this year we hope that the second

5 step is taken to focus on quality education.

6 And we say we shouldn't speak about access to

7 public higher education without discussing

8 funding to preserve and enhance the quality

9 of that education. As enrollment increases

10 at four-year campuses, we know that we have

11 to do this. It's an imperative.

12 We would like to thank the Legislature

13 for once again unanimously passing

14 legislation to enact an enhanced maintenance

15 of effort. We thank you for that. And we

16 are also aware that it was very unfortunate

17 that this bill was vetoed.

18 Providing funding to cover mandatory

19 costs for CUNY and SUNY should be covered by

20 the state. We understand the financial

21 challenges that lie before us and ask the

22 Legislature to make a down payment on this

23 investment by reimbursing campuses for

24 tuition credits, also known as the TAP gap,

261

1 which is estimated at $113 million.

2 On the issue of full-time faculty,

3 NYSUT is pleased to see that a budget

4 appropriation previously allocated for

5 performance-based funding has been modified

6 to allow these funds to be used for new

7 classroom faculty, which will directly help

8 students. We believe that this

9 acknowledgment substantiates the fact that

10 more full-time faculty are needed. We look

11 forward to working with the Legislature to

12 make funding for new classroom faculty a

13 reality in this year's budget.

14 I'd like to talk a little bit about

15 community colleges. The Executive Budget

16 proposes flat funding per FTE for community

17 colleges. While state-base-aid funding is

18 flat, some of our community colleges will

19 receive less funding due to enrollment

20 fluctuations.

21 NYSUT will ask the Legislature to

22 increase base aid by $253 per FTE. This

23 would raise the level per student to $3,000.

24 This funding will help enhance the course

262

1 offerings that are in demand by local

2 businesses and industry and will offset the

3 decline from the local sponsor.

4 Finally I'd like to discuss the SUNY

5 hospitals and the Executive Budget proposal

6 to eliminate the state subsidy and replace it

7 with a state capital appropriation. The

8 elimination of this subsidy is deeply

9 troubling.

10 We thank the Legislature for your

11 efforts in the past to restore the state

12 subsidy and urge you to once again restore

13 this subsidy, which is a vital lifeline to

14 hospitals.

15 In conclusion, New York took a step

16 forward last year with the Excelsior

17 Scholarship Program, which will increase

18 access to higher education. We must now move

19 on that next step and provide the funding to

20 preserve and enhance the quality of

21 education. We ask the state to increase its

22 state investment in SUNY and CUNY.

23 And again, I thank you for this

24 opportunity to testify here today.

263

1 I now turn it over to Dr. Kowal, who

2 will be followed by Dr. Bowen.

3 DR. KOWAL: Thank you.

4 Chairperson Young, Chairperson

5 Weinstein, distinguished members of the

6 Senate Finance Committee and the Assembly

7 Ways and Means Committee, thank you for

8 granting me the opportunity to speak to you

9 today on behalf of the 42,000 members of

10 United University Professions.

11 I would also like to thank and

12 recognize Senator Ken LaValle and

13 Assemblymember Deborah Glick for their

14 aggressive support for the university that

15 UUP serves -- most notably, your leadership

16 on the maintenance of effort legislation over

17 the past couple of years. We deeply

18 appreciate that support.

19 Also, we applaud the Legislature for

20 the work that you did last year in helping to

21 restore the $9.3 million to the SUNY hospital

22 subsidy, and also your steadfast support for

23 opportunity programs.

24 I will speak about opportunity

264

1 programs first, and that is to basically

2 emphasize that here we have incredibly

3 successful programs that unfortunately once

4 again have received a cut in the Executive

5 Budget proposal. We propose not only that

6 that cut be restored, the funding be

7 restored, but that these programs be

8 expanded.

9 In response to a question that was

10 raised earlier today in the hearing

11 concerning retention of students, I'll have

12 you know that in the educational opportunity

13 program in SUNY, the retention rates at

14 doctoral-degree-granting institutions from

15 the first to second year is 92 percent, far

16 above the national average. At the

17 comprehensive campuses in SUNY, it's 81

18 percent.

19 These programs work. And though we

20 don't have a lot of UUP members who work in

21 these programs, we believe they are crucial

22 for the future of SUNY in serving

23 underrepresented and underresourced families.

24 In a similar vein, we advocate

265

1 strongly for SUNY's academic medical centers.

2 They provide healthcare to hundreds of

3 thousands of New Yorkers who otherwise would

4 not have access to quality healthcare.

5 It's important to remember as well

6 that these state-operated public hospitals

7 are also teaching hospitals: 85 percent of

8 first-year students at SUNY's medical schools

9 are from New York State, and the vast

10 majority of graduates from these medical

11 schools stay in New York State upon

12 completion of their education and training.

13 The education, research, and

14 healthcare that takes place in these

15 institutions are a state responsibility. At

16 a time when the federal government is

17 attacking healthcare for those least able to

18 pay, we request that New York commit itself

19 to SUNY's academic medical centers at Stony

20 Brook, Brooklyn, and Syracuse by fully

21 restoring the state subsidy to the academic

22 medical centers to where it was in 2008.

23 UUP's other main concern is the

24 long-term flat state funding. Since 2010,

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1 that has been the financial reality facing

2 SUNY. In 2007-2008, state support for SUNY

3 was at $1.36 billion; this year,

4 $694 million. The result of that has been

5 the loss of full-time faculty, and that's

6 where you see it most egregiously. At the

7 turn of the century, 10,000 full-time faculty

8 were teaching 185,000 full-time students.

9 Now, there are 8,000 full-time faculty within

10 SUNY teaching 222,000 students.

11 We believe that the best way to

12 address this shortfall in these tough times

13 is to add $265 million to cover the so-called

14 TAP gap. This will free up resources to hire

15 the full-time faculty so necessary to

16 maintain quality education in SUNY.

17 Finally, I would draw your attention

18 to my written testimony where there is also

19 discussion of some other proposals that we're

20 making that address issues such as the lack

21 of diversity in education from pre-K through

22 professional education; changing the nature

23 of medical education; and the need for green

24 energy careers in upstate New York

267

1 especially.

2 Once again, thank you for the time

3 that you have granted me to discuss UUP's

4 priorities, and I look forward to working

5 with you to make our State University better

6 than ever. Thank you.

7 DR. BOWEN: Thank you very much. I'm

8 pleased to be joined by Dr. Mike Fabricant,

9 who's the vice president of the PSC.

10 And thank you all so much for

11 listening to us today, for being here and

12 giving us this opportunity. And also we want

13 to give a special thanks to the

14 Legislature -- I join my colleagues in

15 this -- in your advocacy for the enhanced MOE

16 bill. That was bipartisan support. You did

17 a fabulous job getting that passed. As we

18 know, it's been vetoed twice. But the

19 existence of even the basic MOE shielded CUNY

20 in this very challenging budget and made sure

21 that we had the addition of the increased

22 costs for fringe benefits. That's

23 $44 million. Every single dollar counts at

24 CUNY.

268

1 So we thank you for those efforts and

2 we look forward to working with you on some

3 structural solutions, especially to something

4 that was in the initial enhanced MOE, and

5 that's the TAP tuition credit waiver that

6 Fred Kowal and Andy spoke about.

7 So I start with thanking you. I

8 really have a story to tell about what has

9 happened in New York. How is it that we keep

10 hearing that the state's Executive proposals,

11 Executive Budgets for higher education,

12 public higher education, are increases, and

13 yet you listen to us and we say there's been

14 a decrease?

15 New York has invested strongly in

16 access to higher education, and that is a

17 great thing. And it was especially important

18 when the funding for higher education was at

19 a high level; then the access was to

20 institutions that could support the students

21 who go there. What has happened in New York

22 State is that the funding for access is not

23 met by funding for resources. That's the

24 basic story.

269

1 When you look at New York in terms of

2 funding for higher education, you see high

3 numbers. That's because of TAP. Excelsior

4 is relatively small in that, but we heard

5 it's been very highly promoted. And yet what

6 you don't always see is the story that the

7 state appropriations for the operating

8 budgets -- I'll just talk about operating for

9 a minute -- the operating budgets have gone

10 down year after year.

11 So this year's Executive proposal,

12 which is presented as an increase, is

13 actually another decrease. You have to look

14 at it in terms of per-student money. I mean,

15 there's no way of really measuring what's

16 happening without looking at the per-student

17 money. So in per-student and

18 inflation-adjusted terms, New York's funding

19 for CUNY, state funding for the senior

20 colleges, is down 18 percent since 2008, and

21 it's down 4 percent since Governor Cuomo took

22 office.

23 We know this is a very challenging

24 budget year, but we have to look at the

270

1 reality that one of the most powerful

2 solutions to challenging times -- higher

3 education, and public higher education in

4 particular -- is being systematically -- not

5 accidentally, but systematically underfunded.

6 And we are asking you to work with us to

7 change that.

8 My colleagues have mentioned one of

9 the key things we'd like to focus on, which

10 is the gap between the cost of full tuition

11 and the maximum TAP award. As the law

12 currently stands, CUNY and SUNY must absorb

13 the cost of that. So for every student who

14 receives TAP, there is a gap, and the

15 institutions are covering that. That money

16 should not be paid by CUNY and SUNY. It's

17 $59 million at CUNY, it's going up. I worry

18 that it will be a disincentive to accepting

19 students with TAP; I think that is a real

20 issue. And we are calling on you to find a

21 solution for that, which I think has to be a

22 structural solution outside the bounds of

23 just incremental additions.

24 You heard Chancellor Milliken this

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1 morning talk about the extraordinary record

2 that CUNY has as an institution that propels

3 people from the poorest communities in this

4 country into stable and steady middle-class

5 incomes. That's an amazing record. And we

6 as faculty, here representing all the faculty

7 and staff, we're very proud to own that

8 record. It's there because our students are

9 incredible with their explosive knowledge

10 from their own histories and struggles, and

11 it's there because of the hard work of the

12 faculty and staff.

13 But many, many students from CUNY do

14 not graduate. That study measures the

15 progress of graduates, not students. Imagine

16 how powerful CUNY's record and potential

17 would be if more students graduated, if twice

18 the number graduated.

19 We already have the example of the

20 ASAP program at CUNY to show us that when you

21 invest less than $4,000 more per student, the

22 graduation rate more than doubles.

23 So what we say to you as faculty and

24 staff members, as representatives of the

272

1 30,000 faculty and staff at CUNY, is if

2 New York is serious about student success,

3 about students really succeeding in

4 college -- not just adding up the numbers and

5 going to college, but succeeding in

6 college -- then there is a simple solution

7 that's sitting right out there, and it's

8 investment.

9 So we call on you to work with us on

10 several areas. One is on the tuition waiver

11 credit, the TAP gap. We also ask you to look

12 closely at Excelsior, which has, as we've

13 heard earlier today, increased the number of

14 applications. It has probably been

15 responsible for some of the large enrollment

16 growth at CUNY. CUNY has added the

17 equivalent of two full colleges since 2000,

18 but Excelsior is responsible for part of

19 that. Excelsior should have come with

20 substantial funding per student so that those

21 students actually could progress through

22 college. So with an increased census of

23 students must come increased funding.

24 And I just mention a few other things

273

1 quickly; there's more in our testimony. But

2 CUNY is now 4,000 full-time faculty short.

3 You know, as you heard earlier, we now have

4 more than 12,000 adjuncts who are teaching.

5 We have about 7600 full-time faculty, about

6 12,000 adjuncts. They teach the majority of

7 courses at CUNY, and they earn about $3,500 a

8 course. Several thousand of them are earning

9 their whole living teaching courses here and

10 there at CUNY. They're living on $25,000 a

11 year in New York City. They're people with

12 Ph.D.s. That is cruel to them, and it sends

13 absolutely the wrong message about the value

14 of college teaching. And it sends the wrong

15 message to students because it does not

16 enable those faculty to help our students

17 work towards completion in the way that

18 full-time faculty are able to do.

19 So we ask you to look at that.

20 Obviously, there are collective bargaining

21 issues, and we are proud to have made

22 progress on collective bargaining issues for

23 adjuncts. But we need the budget to be able

24 to restore full-time faculty positions, to

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1 pay something other than a shameful wage to

2 the adjunct faculty, and to address the other

3 needs throughout the system.

4 So we look forward to working with

5 you. You'll see our other testimony strongly

6 supporting the DREAM Act and the funding that

7 is needed for collective bargaining in this

8 budget. And we're happy to take questions.

9 Thank you so much.

10 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you. Is that

11 the end of the presentations?

12 MR. PALLOTTA: That is it. Thank you.

13 DR. BOWEN: We can say more, but --

14 (Laughter.)

15 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Assemblywoman.

16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Thank you very

17 much.

18 I know that you made reference to

19 seeking an increase in the FTE for community

20 colleges. SUNY is in part looking at -- and

21 I don't know if it's the same situation in

22 CUNY, but SUNY, because of the wide range of

23 diversity in geographic numbers of people who

24 can attend -- I mean, you know, you don't

275

1 want to have to travel a hundred miles to go

2 to college. Some don't have to travel that

3 far, but some might.

4 So there have been some reductions in

5 enrollment, and they are concerned, the

6 colleges are concerned about the funding

7 formula and whether or not there is some

8 different way to approach funding our

9 community colleges. I think it's exacerbated

10 by counties that, out of their own economic

11 shortfalls, are looking at wanting to get out

12 from under their responsibility.

13 So I'm just wondering whether you've

14 thought about or have an opinion on what

15 might be a different model for support for

16 our community colleges.

17 MR. BLACK: That's a very good

18 question, Assemblymember. And we have

19 thought about it, and we are certainly for

20 always looking at different -- anything that

21 can stabilize our SUNY community colleges,

22 anything that could, you know, potentially be

23 a better way to fund them, certainly.

24 We will be meeting with SUNY. We

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1 don't have all the details of their

2 particular plan, so we'll reserve judgment on

3 that. We'll be meeting with them to discuss

4 it. But certainly we want to hold harmless

5 those campuses that, for instance, may see

6 some small dips in enrollment because we know

7 year to year while enrollment may dip

8 slightly, costs don't go down, right? So we

9 certainly want to hold those campuses

10 harmless.

11 But I would say that said, we want to

12 ensure that the autonomy of these campuses

13 are maintained and that funding is, you know,

14 directly appropriated to them. So we

15 wouldn't want to see anything that would

16 hinder that current process.

17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: I would just

18 opine that some of the problem for some of

19 the schools is that it's not even that they

20 have fewer students, it's that they have

21 fewer students that can add up to a full-time

22 equivalency.

23 So that was one of the issues that was

24 raised by the chancellor, that they have a

277

1 large number of students they're just -- the

2 mathematics of when you get -- what triggers

3 a full-time equivalency with credit hours is

4 a problem.

5 So it's not that they've necessarily

6 lost bodies -- they have plenty of bodies in

7 some instances -- but the way in which what

8 triggers a full-time equivalency may take --

9 what might have been two students in the past

10 now is three students.

11 So they're actually, in some

12 instances -- it's not that they have fewer

13 students. That may be true in some

14 instances, in a few instances, but in, I

15 think, a significant number. And it may be a

16 reflection of people having to have two jobs

17 while going to college, where in the past

18 maybe one job actually made it possible for

19 them to take enough credit hours to trigger a

20 full-time equivalency.

21 So I just want us to be thoughtful and

22 careful about trying to do that which is

23 stabilizing for the colleges and supports the

24 options and maintains the quality available.

278

1 I don't think the city is in the same

2 situation, because geographically we're

3 compact. And I don't know that the same

4 situation exists. It's something that we

5 would have to talk to CUNY and you folks at

6 PSC more. But it clearly is an issue for

7 SUNY.

8 MR. PALLOTTA: And we'll definitely

9 bring that up at the conference that we have

10 annually with the community colleges. We get

11 together with the presidents from the

12 colleges, and that definitely will be on the

13 agenda.

14 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: We'd be happy to

15 hear what comes out of that conversation,

16 because it is a concern.

17 Now, we've heard from the CUNY

18 chancellor a very positive picture of moving

19 towards more full-time faculty. Has there

20 actually been a moving in the dial, or is it

21 just that they're relieved that they're

22 getting some of the fringe benefits and so

23 they're -- you know, it's the exuberance of a

24 surprise that maybe puts a happier face on

279

1 things?

2 So I'd like your view of whether the

3 dial has moved at all on that full-time

4 ratio.

5 DR. BOWEN: Well, there always is the

6 exuberance of surprise when there's any

7 additional funding, so we do have that.

8 But there has been a movement of the

9 dial in terms of raw numbers, actual,

10 absolute numbers of full-time faculty. The

11 problem is that the number of students has

12 far outpaced that. And I can send you a

13 chart that shows the number of students

14 graphed against the increase in full-time

15 faculty and part-time faculty.

16 In 2000, there were about 7,000

17 part-time faculty. Now there are actually

18 14,000 people teaching as part-time faculty.

19 Some might do something else at CUNY, so

20 let's say about 12,000. And there are about

21 7600 full-time faculty.

22 So the growth -- I mean, what CUNY has

23 done in the face of that enormous growth in

24 students, which we all celebrate, and the

280

1 failure of state funding to keep up, is fill

2 in that gap with part-time faculty who are

3 radically underpaid. So yes, there has been

4 a growth in full-time faculty, but not nearly

5 fast enough. My own department had 80

6 full-time faculty when I came, you know, in

7 the late '80s, and about 40 part-time

8 faculty. Now it has about 40-full time

9 faculty and about 100 part-time faculty. I

10 mean, that tells the story.

11 So yes, there has been an improvement.

12 And we are happy to work with that and for

13 that and support the chancellor in doing

14 that. But the real story is that faced with

15 underfunding, CUNY has saved money on their

16 chief job, which is instruction, and found a

17 way to do it on the cheap and for about a

18 third of the cost of the full-time faculty.

19 And that is a terrible labor model, it's a

20 terrible message to the students about how

21 much this state cares about them, and it's a

22 terrible impediment to helping students move

23 forward. They are wonderful faculty, and

24 CUNY is very lucky to be in New York and

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1 attract the adjuncts we have. But those

2 faculty are not on campus all the time, they

3 don't have the continuity. And it hurts them

4 and it hurts the students. So it really is

5 the most visible story of the underfunding.

6 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: The notion of a

7 three-year contract is a very positive one.

8 DR. BOWEN: Yes.

9 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Are we in Year 1

10 of that?

11 DR. BOWEN: We are. And in the first

12 year -- well, we're just coming up to Year 2.

13 Just for people who aren't as up-to-date on

14 adjunct employment, usually in most places

15 they are employed semester by semester. And

16 they can prepare a full course and the day

17 before the course starts they're told, Oh,

18 sorry, full-time is going to teach that, you

19 get nothing. And often that means losing

20 their health insurance.

21 So with the university, a very tough

22 negotiation, but we succeeded in negotiating

23 a three-year contract with a provision to

24 guarantee income over that period. And we

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1 did the first year of it last year, 1500

2 people benefited from that. That's

3 fantastic. We're just coming up to the

4 eligibility for this year. There probably

5 won't be as many this year because there was

6 kind of a backlog.

7 But it's been phenomenal. We would

8 like there to be better job security for

9 adjuncts. Some have taught 25, 30 years as

10 an adjunct, and they are holding up the basic

11 programs in math and English and other places

12 in the university. So they should have that

13 job security at a minimum. So we're very

14 pleased to have that. It's been working

15 really well, and we'd like to expand it.

16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: I would say that

17 it's also -- for students, there's a certain

18 continuity. If you have an excellent

19 professor and you're taking a second-level

20 course and that professor is available

21 teaching that, you might in fact be more

22 encouraged to move forward.

23 DR. BOWEN: That's exactly right.

24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: So it does seem

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1 to me that even if somebody is not

2 full-time -- which is of course our goal, to

3 support more full-time faculty -- if you at

4 least have stability in the adjunct corps,

5 that is at least a step in the right

6 direction.

7 DR. BOWEN: That's right. That was

8 exactly our argument.

9 And we did do some conversion of

10 part-time to full-time positions. So far

11 we've done about 225 together. I'd like to

12 do many, many more because there are

13 part-timers with extraordinary

14 qualifications. It costs less to move them

15 to a full-time position than to create a

16 whole new position, and that would be a

17 beautiful use of the $59 million from the TAP

18 waiver. I mean, it would really change the

19 complexion of CUNY in many ways.

20 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Thank you.

21 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

22 So UUP has been without a contract for

23 two years; is that correct?

24 DR. KOWAL: It will be two years on

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1 June 30th. Hopefully we won't get to two

2 years.

3 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: I know, I hope so

4 too.

5 DR. KOWAL: Thank you.

6 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: And I understand

7 that negotiations are still ongoing. So you

8 feel optimistic that there will be a

9 resolution this year?

10 DR. KOWAL: As the chancellor

11 responded this morning, she hopes so. As do

12 I. I think a great deal depends on the

13 uncertainties that transpire in the course of

14 collective bargaining discussions. But I

15 remain optimistic that we will have a

16 contract so that we won't reach that

17 second-year anniversary.

18 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: That would be

19 great. It would be wonderful for the members

20 to get that settled.

21 And, you know, we've heard a lot about

22 the TAP gap and some of the constraints that

23 we have on campuses. And you heard me talk

24 to the chancellor earlier, but the fact that

285

1 there's no money in state operations to pay

2 for a resolution is concerning, because

3 obviously it can only come from three places:

4 Cuts, out of tuition, or, you know, if we

5 increase aid to the colleges.

6 So I'm concerned that there's no plan

7 in place to really deal with that going

8 forward. And, you know, there's a lot of

9 concern in the Legislature. That's why we

10 passed that maintenance of effort bill. But

11 there's a lot of concern in the Legislature

12 about having the proper resources to make

13 sure that we're providing high-quality

14 education on our campuses.

15 So hopefully it does get resolved, but

16 I think we need to be forward looking as far

17 as making sure that the resources are there

18 to address the issue.

19 DR. KOWAL: I agree, Senator. And I

20 think what bears study is when you look back

21 at our previous five-year collective

22 bargaining agreement, which included three

23 zeroes -- and we do not have a step system of

24 automatic salary increases, so those were

286

1 real zeroes. But then also there were two

2 furlough days, there were lag days, seven lag

3 days, which for all intents and purposes was

4 an interest-free loan to SUNY.

5 You know, I think an appropriate

6 question for SUNY is to determine what has

7 transpired with those funds that literally

8 came out of our members' paychecks. And

9 those -- you know, the loans have been repaid

10 now. That was part of the contractual

11 agreement. But in fact as we went into this

12 round of negotiations, as I'm sure you've

13 heard from your constituents, especially from

14 Fredonia and Alfred, they really feel like

15 this is a round where there needs to be some

16 makeup because of what happened in the last

17 round.

18 And granted, though, we understand the

19 financial difficulties and challenges, and

20 we're hopeful that we can come to an

21 agreement that will benefit our members and

22 maintain SUNY's financial position.

23 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you for that.

24 DR. BOWEN: Senator, excuse me. May I

287

1 just say quickly, thank you so much for

2 raising that.

3 And we mentioned that there are no

4 funds, as you say, in the Executive Budget

5 for future collective bargaining costs for

6 CUNY either. We are starting bargaining for

7 a new contract, having waited six years for

8 the last one. And I really thank you and

9 your colleagues for calling attention to

10 that, because it should not be normalized

11 that the institutions do not get money to pay

12 basic raises. I mean, nobody goes into

13 academia to get rich. Even to have a cost of

14 living -- or public service, especially in

15 the Assembly and Senate.

16 But, you know, even to have a cost of

17 living increase is a minimum, and even that

18 is not covered in the funding. Which means

19 that the universities, as you say, end up

20 eating into academic programs to pay just

21 basic employee expenses. And that's not

22 fair, and it shouldn't be normalized year

23 after year.

24 So we really thank you for

288

1 highlighting that and ask you to work with us

2 to change that in an ongoing way. That

3 cannot become acceptable, because it's --

4 again, it's impoverishing the academic

5 programs for the students.

6 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you for that.

7 I also -- once you get together on the

8 community colleges proposal, I would be very

9 interested in hearing what you come up with

10 too. I think it's a little bit troubling

11 that although they're talking about

12 stabilizing the campuses, which I think is a

13 great goal to have, it was unclear to me,

14 even when I spoke to the chancellor today,

15 about how it actually would work. They

16 talked kind of vaguely about technical

17 programs. It almost sounds like block grants

18 or something like that. But who's going to

19 make those decisions? How are they going to

20 make those decisions?

21 As you know, in my area I have several

22 community colleges, and I'm concerned about

23 their future. And if it's more focused on

24 urban areas and not every area of the state

289

1 or whatever may happen, I'm very concerned

2 about getting left behind. And we need to

3 have that resource. As you know so well

4 through your members in our communities

5 across the state, whether it's rural, urban,

6 suburban, we need to have those educational

7 opportunities available.

8 So I just wanted to raise that. I

9 don't know if anybody wants to address it.

10 But please keep us informed as you move

11 forward.

12 MR. PALLOTTA: Will do.

13 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

14 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Mr. Colton.

15 ASSEMBLYMAN COLTON: Yes, good

16 afternoon. I had just a couple of questions.

17 I have been becoming increasingly

18 alarmed over the strain that may be put on

19 CUNY and SUNY. The TAP gap and now

20 Excelsior, which is a good step in the right

21 direction, which benefits students -- but are

22 there warning signs? This is very early, but

23 my concern is that when we have an increasing

24 number of students and we don't provide

290

1 additional monies, that there's going to be a

2 strain that's going to basically undermine

3 the good that we're intending to do. And,

4 you know, we want to in the Legislature see

5 any warning signs early, because I think we

6 have to start drastically changing the

7 priority here. Education is the economic

8 engine for the state, and we need that most

9 importantly now.

10 So are there any things that we should

11 be looking for in terms of, you know, numbers

12 of increases in certain campuses or, you

13 know, where there's a warning sign that we

14 really need to do something that could prompt

15 us to then act upon it?

16 DR. KOWAL: Well, I would point you in

17 the direction, Assemblyman, towards any

18 indication that students are having

19 difficulty getting their courses that are

20 required for graduation, thereby threatening

21 their ability to complete in four.

22 And I know that later this afternoon

23 you will hear from the Student Assembly at

24 SUNY. And we've been working very closely

291

1 with them on just this issue, and that is to

2 track what's happening at the campuses.

3 I certainly would not expect anything

4 to have happened in this first semester, in

5 the fall semester. But in the spring and

6 then next year, as the numbers -- of

7 necessity -- will grow, then you may start to

8 see difficulty in getting classes. And then

9 you'll start to feel the pressure. And my

10 concern, like yours, is that this will happen

11 in isolated areas, in departments scattered

12 here and there in SUNY or in CUNY, but there

13 won't be the systematic situation that will

14 attract undue attention.

15 And that's why what's vitally

16 important is that we hear from our members

17 who are teaching and we hear from the

18 students as to what's happening in their

19 experiences. It's incredibly important that

20 that take place.

21 DR. BOWEN: Thank you for the

22 question.

23 The one thing I would add, I have

24 heard from Baruch College at CUNY, where

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1 several of the majors have a very tight

2 sequence of courses -- you know, you have to

3 take Accounting 101 before you can take 102.

4 And if you can't get into 101, you might have

5 to wait a whole year, and then you can't take

6 102 and you get left behind in your major.

7 I have heard a concern at Baruch. I

8 wouldn't say that we've seen evidence yet,

9 because as Fred said, it's too early, but

10 that's the concern I've heard, that in

11 tightly sequenced majors where there is a

12 squeeze and our students have other things in

13 their lives -- you know, a huge percentage of

14 them are working and they're squeezing their

15 courses -- even Excelsior students might be

16 working to contribute to their families, and

17 so they don't have the freedom just to take a

18 course at any time of the day or week. And

19 in that kind of sequence, there may not be

20 enough sections offered so that they can

21 actually take one.

22 And that's a concern that's been

23 raised with so much pressure on the Excelsior

24 recipients to take the 15 credits. We're all

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1 for that, but when students don't have the

2 support to do that and when they have to

3 scramble to get courses -- you know, there

4 are obstacles all over the place. It is not

5 given to them that they can move forward

6 smoothly. And so we are concerned that with

7 all that pressure and the penalty of

8 irrevocably losing your scholarship for not

9 keeping up, we do have that concern.

10 So -- and it's symptomatic, as you

11 say, it's symptomatic of the larger pattern

12 of bringing in students, bringing in

13 students, and celebrating that without

14 funding their success. And that is a very

15 disturbing pattern.

16 DR. FABRICANT: What I think may be

17 both offering great benefit to the university

18 but also represents a threat is online

19 learning. I think we've got to be very

20 clear. Online learning can be an

21 extraordinary experience for students, but it

22 can also become a safety valve, a way in

23 which an infrastructure that's crumbling,

24 students not getting what they need in the

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1 classroom -- expanding the size of a class

2 online, not providing the supports that the

3 students need, becomes the safety valve for

4 continuing to reduce the budgets and moving

5 students into a virtual circumstance of

6 learning, for many of which it's a misfit.

7 So that, it seems to me, is something

8 to keep an eye on. You know, many of the

9 systems have talked about this. It can be a

10 great boon, but it can also undermine rapidly

11 the quality of education.

12 ASSEMBLYMAN COLTON: The other

13 concern, we go through this budget dance

14 every year with the opportunity programs --

15 among other things, but the opportunity

16 programs. What is the impact of the

17 uncertainty of whether the opportunity

18 programs -- do you feel any negative impact

19 to students when every year they hear they

20 may not have opportunity programs and then

21 finally the Legislature restores it?

22 DR. KOWAL: Absolutely. We know for

23 an absolute certainty that in the aftermath

24 of the proposed Executive Budget that we

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1 heard from our members that students were

2 very upset, they were concerned if there was

3 going to be space for them going forward, let

4 alone the ability to recruit.

5 Remember that the application rates

6 for the SUNY opportunity programs, EOP

7 specifically, range between 20,000 and 30,000

8 per year, and yet the numbers that can be

9 admitted under the program is just in the few

10 thousands.

11 And so absolutely there is that impact

12 where students feel like they may be losing

13 their only opportunity to get a college

14 degree.

15 ASSEMBLYMAN COLTON: Thank you very

16 much.

17 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Senator Savino.

18 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you, Senator

19 Young.

20 Thank you, guys, for your testimony.

21 I'm going to ask you all your opinion,

22 because you mentioned the issue of the

23 hospitals, SUNY Downstate, SUNY Upstate, and

24 Stony Brook. And you were here earlier, so

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1 you heard me ask the chancellor about it.

2 And I'm not sure I really got an answer to

3 that question, because in her testimony she

4 talked about stabilization and the health and

5 security of their healthcare delivery system

6 and wanting some flexibility. I still don't

7 understand what that means.

8 And as you all know, in the Governor's

9 budget he's suggesting that we zero out the

10 state subsidy, which is close to $90 million,

11 and somehow that will be made up with capital

12 money of some sort, I don't know.

13 But do you have any idea what they're

14 talking about when they suggest they need

15 flexibility in the way they operate?

16 DR. KOWAL: Well, I do know, Senator,

17 that the word that we've gotten from the SUNY

18 leadership is that they are eager to work

19 with us, to move work with the Legislature to

20 get the subsidy reinstated. I know that.

21 Secondly, there are real concerns in

22 SUNY about the shift to capital funding.

23 Because even though in this proposed

24 Executive Budget there is some allowance for

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1 the debt servicing, the fact is capital

2 expenditures are not the same as the subsidy

3 required for daily operations, literally.

4 And so what I can tell you is that we

5 will be advocating as strenuously as we can.

6 We're also encouraged that the new

7 president at Downstate is very assertive in

8 promoting that excellent institution. We

9 feel the same about the new leadership at

10 Upstate. Stony Brook is, you know,

11 potentially going through some transition on

12 the hospital side. But I think that that's

13 where I see a much more strenuous effort on

14 the part of the presidents at the hospitals,

15 the chief executive officers, to advocate for

16 their institutions.

17 There is absolutely no way that there

18 would not be great harm to the hospitals

19 without that subsidy. And I am hopeful that

20 if you read between -- or if I read between

21 the lines, that the chancellor was committed

22 to fighting hard for this. I can't imagine

23 why she wouldn't. These are world-class

24 institutions. They produce more

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1 professionals in the medical field than any

2 other institutions in New York State. And as

3 I said in my testimony, the great majority

4 stay here.

5 And so there has to be that

6 commitment. So I'm hopeful. I'm not saying

7 I heard anything different than you did, but

8 I'm hopeful.

9 SENATOR SAVINO: I'm hopeful too. I'm

10 assuming -- well, perhaps we should assume

11 that she thinks you guys will lead the fight

12 and they'll just follow along. And perhaps

13 that is the way it will turn out.

14 But I agree with you, it's almost

15 impossible to absorb a cut that large without

16 it having an effect.

17 DR. KOWAL: Exactly.

18 SENATOR SAVINO: And, you know, to

19 simply say, Well, if we had some of the

20 flexibility that exists in other healthcare

21 institutions, that somehow that would make

22 the money magically reappear -- which of

23 course is absurd, so.

24 DR. KOWAL: Right. And as you know,

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1 the hospitals provide a subsidy for the

2 medical schools. And so their financial

3 strength is crucial to the continued

4 operation of those medical schools.

5 SENATOR SAVINO: Right. Not to

6 mention the effect of a disastrous decision a

7 few years ago to marry SUNY Downstate to LICH

8 in an effort to save that hospital, which

9 eventually went the way of other closed

10 hospitals. So I think SUNY Downstate is

11 still reeling from that, and it has an effect

12 on SUNY Upstate as well.

13 So thank you.

14 DR. KOWAL: Thank you.

15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Thank you very,

16 very much. We appreciate it.

17 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

18 MR. PALLOTTA: Thank you.

19 DR. BOWEN: Thank you.

20 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Our next witness

21 is Mary Beth Labate from CICU, the Commission

22 on Independent Colleges and Universities.

23 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Good

24 afternoon.

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1 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Good afternoon.

2 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: And thank you,

3 Chairperson Young. It's a pleasure to see

4 and have two women at the helm of such

5 influential and important committees; it

6 really thrills me.

7 I would also like to acknowledge and

8 thank Senator Stavisky and Assembly Higher Ed

9 Chair Deborah Glick for all your leadership

10 in these very challenging times.

11 I'm Mary Beth Labate, president of the

12 Commission on Independent Colleges and

13 Universities, representing more than

14 100 private, not-for-profit colleges and

15 universities across the state. We are in

16 every corner of the state. Even if you don't

17 have a campus in your district, you can be

18 certain that we educate and employ your

19 constituents. We educate 500,000 students

20 annually; 300,000 of them are New Yorkers.

21 Our students are diverse. More black

22 and Hispanic students earn degrees at our

23 campuses than anywhere else in New York.

24 About 72,000 of our students receive TAP

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1 because their families earn less than $80,000

2 annually. And our students hail from every

3 state in the nation and from around the

4 world.

5 We are major economic drivers in

6 communities across the state, from upstate to

7 Long Island to New York City. We bring

8 $80 billion in economic activity to the

9 state, and our schools generate over 400,000

10 jobs.

11 We are keenly focused on college

12 access, affordability and completion, as

13 evidenced by the fact that our campuses give

14 $5.4 billion in student aid from their own

15 resources every year and have the highest

16 graduation rates in the state.

17 Investment in New York's private

18 colleges allows the state to stretch its

19 higher ed dollars. New York could not

20 educate the 1.2 million college students

21 currently enrolled if it relied exclusively

22 on its public systems. We get just 5 percent

23 of the state's higher education budget, but

24 our campuses enroll 39 percent of all college

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1 students in New York, and we confer

2 60 percent of bachelor's and graduate degrees

3 in the state.

4 The average net price that our

5 students pay for tuition, room and board at

6 one of our campuses is $26,336, significantly

7 less than the so-called sticker price. And

8 after you adjust for inflation, that amount

9 has been basically flat over the past decade.

10 Three in 10 of our students don't

11 borrow at all to pay for their degree. Those

12 who do borrow owe on average $30,824 when

13 they graduate with a four-year degree. And

14 just to put that in context, SUNY's average

15 four-year debt is $27,425, and the average

16 car loan in the U.S. is $30,032 -- and that

17 car will depreciate the moment you drive it

18 off the lot.

19 Like CUNY and SUNY, our schools launch

20 students towards upward mobility.

21 Unfortunately, despite our pivotal role in

22 educating students and serving as economic

23 and research engines for communities in every

24 corner of the state, some proposals advanced

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1 in the executive budget threaten our ability

2 to consider serving the public, the public

3 good, and could derail our collective efforts

4 to keep college affordable.

5 So let me focus just for a minute on

6 actions that we would like to see in order to

7 preserve New York's carefully balanced higher

8 education ecosystem.

9 First and foremost, we urge you to

10 restore Bundy Aid. In the 1960s, New York

11 created the SUNY and CUNY systems. Prior to

12 that, New York had relied almost exclusively

13 on its private colleges. With the creation

14 of the public higher education system,

15 New York's lawmakers recognized that without

16 targeted support for private not-for-profit

17 colleges, many of those schools would not be

18 able to compete with a highly subsidized

19 public system.

20 Bundy Aid was born as a means to

21 insure a vibrant public and private higher

22 education landscape that offered student

23 choices. Without us, the fledgling public

24 institutions of the 1960s could not possibly

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1 have absorbed all the students our schools

2 educated and supported all the communities

3 they anchored.

4 So you fast forward 50 years, and the

5 rationale that gave birth to Bundy is more

6 relevant than ever, particularly with the

7 state grappling with budget deficits and with

8 renewed concerns over a taxing structure that

9 makes it impractical to fund large-scale

10 expansions of the public systems.

11 Since 1968, the Bundy Aid program has

12 created a compact between the state and our

13 schools. Bundy Aid funds critical student

14 aid and is earned on the basis of the number

15 of degrees we award. This year's Executive

16 Budget proposes the unprecedented elimination

17 of the entire $35.1 million program. This

18 proposal comes in the midst of particularly

19 acute enrollment challenges that many of our

20 schools now confront, in part as a result of

21 recent changes to student aid programs here

22 in New York.

23 We urge you to restore critical

24 Bundy Aid. We greatly appreciate that the

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1 Executive Budget included $35 million for the

2 HECap program. That funding had been

3 eliminated from the current year budget, and

4 we're very glad to have it back. It's an

5 important program for our campuses, and it

6 creates construction jobs across the state.

7 However, it is not an adequate alternative to

8 Bundy Aid, and its restoration does not

9 warrant the elimination of Bundy.

10 The two programs are in no way

11 alternatives for each other. Restoring HECap

12 funding for next year is the right thing to

13 do, but it does not justify eliminating

14 Bundy. As I shared, Bundy is used primarily

15 to fund student aid and other operating

16 supports that get students over the finish

17 line. Nearly all of our campuses receive it

18 and they receive it in regular, predictable

19 intervals throughout the school year.

20 In contrast, the HECap program

21 provides grants for capital projects to a

22 small group of schools and universities with

23 timelines that are often difficult to

24 predict. Both programs are important, but it

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1 is critical that they not be conflated.

2 Funding for opportunity programs like

3 HEOP, C-STEP, STEP, and the Liberty

4 Partnership Programs suffered a 17 percent

5 cut in the Executive Budget. Each of these

6 programs expands access to higher ed and

7 degree completion for New York's neediest

8 students. We urge you to restore and

9 hopefully increase funding so that our

10 campuses can meet the demand for these

11 life-changing programs.

12 We want to thank the Governor for

13 fully funding the TAP program in the

14 Executive Budget, and we hope to see the

15 Legislature continue its long-time support

16 for this critical program.

17 Last year the Legislature created the

18 Enhanced Tuition Award Program to help

19 students at private colleges and universities

20 meet college costs. I was pleased to see

21 funding for this program increased to account

22 for the raised income eligibility. However,

23 unless the program is modified slightly to

24 make it possible for more students to

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1 participate, I fear that it will be

2 underutilized again. There are several

3 improvements that you can make to the program

4 that would allow more students to take

5 advantage of the enhanced tuition awards.

6 In my written testimony I detail

7 changes to the tuition freeze, matching funds

8 requirement, and the program's timing that

9 would improve utilization of the program. I

10 hope that we can continue to have productive

11 dialogues with the Legislature and the

12 Executive about these changes.

13 Last year we were grateful to the

14 Legislature for passing bills that would have

15 allowed our students to participate in the

16 existing STEM and Masters-in-Education

17 Scholarship programs. Those bills were

18 vetoed in December with the veto message

19 citing the need to address these proposals

20 within the context of the budget. We

21 certainly hope you will do so this year.

22 New York really has one of the most

23 vibrant higher education systems in the

24 world. That didn't happen by accident. It

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1 is the result of a strategic, sustained

2 investment in a robust public/private

3 partnership. After a year of unprecedented

4 challenges to our schools, the full impact of

5 which are still playing out, we find

6 ourselves once again at a crossroads. Only

7 with your leadership will not-for-profit

8 colleges be positioned to continue serving

9 not only as dedicated educators of our

10 current and future workforce but also as

11 major employers in their communities.

12 More than most people you will hear

13 from over the next three years, I completely

14 understand the challenges of developing a

15 responsible and responsive spending plan,

16 particularly as the purse strings begin to

17 constrict. In this context, we are not

18 asking for a significant expansion of

19 funding. We are, however, calling on each of

20 you today to reverse the reductions to the

21 opportunity programs and the unprecedented

22 elimination of Bundy Aid, a program that for

23 the past five decades has been a hallmark of

24 the covenant between New York and its

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1 not-for-profit colleges.

2 Thanks for your time. I know it's

3 been a long day, but I welcome your

4 questions.

5 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Let me ask you,

6 and you may not have the numbers with you,

7 but at some point we'd like to see -- I don't

8 know that all schools have subscribed to the

9 Enhanced TAP, the Enhanced Tuition from the

10 added Excelsior.

11 So maybe you could provide us with

12 those schools that have joined the program

13 and whether there are some other schools that

14 have indicated that if there were some

15 changes they too would step into the program,

16 just so we have an understanding -- you know,

17 you have a very large sector, some of the

18 schools probably have more of an endowment

19 than others, it's varied.

20 So we'd like to understand who's

21 joined and who hasn't and whether -- I know

22 you've made some recommendations, we'll look

23 at that in your written testimony -- what

24 might make it more attractive or doable, and

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1 we'd like to understand more of that.

2 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Sure, we can

3 provide you with that. There are 30 schools

4 that have opted into the program for this

5 initial year. I'm quite confident that if

6 there were changes made to the program to

7 make it more conducive to some of the

8 challenges that our campuses face, I think

9 you will see more campuses participate and

10 therefore more students be able to take

11 advantage of it.

12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Right. And in

13 that, give us some of the demographics of the

14 school: how large the student body is --

15 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Yes. Sure.

16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: -- and perhaps

17 some additional information about the makeup

18 of the school, so that we can understand

19 whether they are in a position by virtue of

20 having more full-pay students in essence

21 subsidizing their operation.

22 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Right.

23 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: I just want to

24 understand what the universe is so that we

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1 can figure out if there's any maneuvering

2 that can be accomplished.

3 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Okay. Those

4 are important data points. We can get you

5 those.

6 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: I think many of

7 us were surprised at the elimination of Bundy

8 Aid. We understand that that's important.

9 I guess there's always been this

10 question, since most of the schools submit a

11 report that says that this is how much they

12 have used for student financial aid -- but

13 it's not required, it's unrestricted dollars.

14 I'm not asking you for an answer in

15 public. Have there been any thoughts or

16 discussions about any restructuring of it if

17 it is to be reauthorized or reappropriated?

18 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Well, we know

19 now that the vast majority of the aid is used

20 for student aid. It's also used for those

21 extra services that are needed really to get

22 students over the finish line, and because of

23 that we have the strongest graduation rate in

24 the state.

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1 So I think you can be assured that it

2 is going for student services, and in going

3 for student services and student financial

4 aid -- because those dollars are there, that

5 is less pressure on tuition rates. That is

6 less pressure on the student to borrow.

7 So I do think it is a situation where

8 for many of our schools, every dollar counts

9 at this point.

10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: I think that's

11 it. We'll go to you, and then we'll go back

12 to Ms. Peoples-Stokes.

13 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

14 Thank you, President Labate, for being

15 here today, and thank you for your testimony.

16 I had just a couple of follow-up

17 questions, because I think that there was a

18 misperception last year about some of our

19 private colleges where they were portrayed as

20 being extremely wealthy and that only rich

21 kids go there.

22 As you know so well, I have very

23 wonderful private colleges in my district,

24 whether it's St. Bonaventure University,

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1 which has the history of Franciscanism and

2 being established in 1858, a very small

3 liberal arts college -- the same with

4 Houghton College, Alfred University. And the

5 vast majority of students that go to those

6 colleges are not wealthy.

7 Can you expound on that? Because you

8 touched on it in your testimony.

9 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Sure. As I

10 said in my testimony, 72,000 of our students

11 receive TAP, which means that their family

12 earns less than $80,000 a year. Two-thirds

13 of our New York State students make under

14 $125,000 a year.

15 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So there is a wide

16 diversity also in the student population.

17 Could you talk about that?

18 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Certainly.

19 We are an extraordinarily diverse

20 sector. We graduate more students of color

21 than either of the other sectors. We attract

22 students from all over the world -- that is a

23 good thing for the economy. We're bringing

24 people into places where sometimes others are

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1 leaving. As you said, we have great economic

2 and income diversity within our group.

3 I wish I could sit here and say all of

4 our schools are well-endowed and wealthy. It

5 would be an issue we'd love to have. But

6 that's simply not the case. We have -- about

7 80 percent of schools serve under 2,000

8 students. So changes in financial aid,

9 changes in enrollment, really can turn the

10 tide for these schools.

11 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: I assume you've

12 done studies on economic impacts -- speaking

13 of economic issues, of the colleges in the

14 communities -- and for example,

15 St. Bonaventure, again, it's one of the

16 largest employers in Cattaraugus County, and

17 many of those jobs are higher-paying jobs.

18 So could you expound on that?

19 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Sure.

20 Our overall economic impact is about

21 $80 billion, 400,000 jobs. And what we know

22 is that jobs are directly -- and economic

23 impact is directly correlated with

24 enrollment. So when we see changes in

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1 enrollment, we also see changes in jobs.

2 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

3 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: And we know

4 that in many corners of the state, we are the

5 job market. And we're proud of that.

6 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

7 So private colleges in upstate

8 New York already have seen some demographic

9 changes prior to the Excelsior program.

10 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Right.

11 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: And were there any

12 indications that this trend, where they're

13 going with lower enrollments, was reversing

14 before the Excelsior program was established?

15 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: We were

16 certainly -- the data suggest, when you look

17 at -- there was a study done by Georgetown

18 University that suggested that a movement

19 towards free college would impact enrollment

20 at private not-for-profit colleges. We have

21 seen that borne out.

22 Obviously, enrollment changes for many

23 reasons. We certainly can't ascribe all

24 changes to any single factor, including

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1 Excelsior. But what you saw is that schools

2 that primarily served New York State students

3 saw an unusually large drop in particularly

4 New York State freshmen who were enrolling in

5 those schools.

6 For 30 of our schools, the aggregate

7 drop for New York State freshman was

8 8 percent. If you -- from the fall of 2006,

9 the fall of 2007 -- if you took a snapshot of

10 those same schools the year before, they

11 actually saw a small uptick in New York State

12 freshman enrollment.

13 So clearly the demographics are

14 challenging for everyone, and I don't want to

15 dismiss that, but I think what we're seeing

16 here is something different than that.

17 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: And obviously a

18 decline in enrollment in a freshman class is

19 a four-year problem.

20 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Right. It

21 will just ripple through the cycle.

22 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So you're seeing an

23 uptick, and now you're seeing the enrollments

24 go down since the Excelsior program. What

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1 are the private schools doing to try to

2 compete with free college education?

3 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Well, I think

4 we're stepping up the things that we've

5 always done that have always allowed us to

6 work collaboratively and be a competitive

7 alternative to the public systems, and that

8 is we continue to increase the amount of

9 financial aid we provide. Over the last

10 decade, it's increased almost threefold.

11 You can only do that for so long,

12 though, because you get that financial aid

13 from tuition resources. And obviously we're

14 always sensitive -- we're continually

15 sensitive about increasing tuition too much

16 in order to recycle it back into students who

17 really need the financial aid.

18 But we are making a very strong

19 investment in additional financial aid.

20 You'll see some colleges doing tuition

21 resets, you'll see colleges will do --

22 colleges that are adopting more programs

23 where students can graduate in three years.

24 So there is a lot that we're doing on

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1 our own to make ourselves more competitive,

2 but there's only so much one can do.

3 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you. I too

4 am concerned about the proposal by the

5 Governor that actually would take away

6 Bundy Aid, $35 million.

7 And you spoke briefly about the HECap

8 program, which is the capital program for

9 private schools. Are there barriers or

10 challenges in using that type of funding? Is

11 it difficult or easy to use?

12 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Well, there

13 are restrictions on it. They're not

14 unreasonable restrictions in many cases, but

15 there is a three-to-one match. Many of our

16 schools do not and are no longer in a

17 position to provide a three-to-one match.

18 It's also a cyclical program, so it's

19 a competitive program and it's really an

20 administrative decision when those

21 competitions will be run. So it's not

22 something our schools can always rely upon.

23 And it's the sort of program that in any one

24 cycle, competitive cycle, perhaps 10 to

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1 20 schools might get an award, and they'll

2 get an award for a capital program. Some of

3 our schools are not delving into capital

4 projects right now because they have other

5 priorities.

6 And the main difference with Bundy is

7 Bundy is a source of operating aid that every

8 school gets, based on degree completion, so

9 it's an accountable program and it's very

10 predictable. So schools know that they will

11 be getting the money, provided they're

12 graduating the students that they typically

13 graduate, and it can be used for financial

14 aid, student supports -- it doesn't have to

15 be used to build a building or renovate a

16 building.

17 We like HECap. We'd like to see more

18 of it at some point. But it's not the

19 alternative to Bundy.

20 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

21 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Assemblywoman

22 Crystal Peoples-Stokes.

23 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES: Thank

24 you, Madam Chair.

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1 And thank you, young lady, for your

2 presentation. I was --

3 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: And thank you

4 for calling me "young lady."

5 (Laughter.)

6 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES: I guess

7 I would join my colleagues in being a little

8 surprised with the total cut of Bundy Aid.

9 And I note in your comments that you gave us

10 that it has been in existence since 1960.

11 The amount of Bundy Aid that's totally

12 cut from the budget, is it equal to what

13 capital projects at private colleges and

14 universities receive?

15 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: No. No.

16 There are a few things about Bundy Aid

17 funding. Bundy Aid, when you look at the

18 statute in the formulas in Bundy Aid --

19 Bundy Aid should be at about $181 million.

20 That's what the formula drives. Our schools

21 haven't received that in a long time. We've

22 been pretty stable at $35 million, but that

23 is not equivalent to any sort of capital

24 spending.

321

1 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES: So --

2 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: It's a number

3 that's been pegged for quite some time now.

4 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES: So I

5 understand that the capital was a matching

6 grant. But do you know what the total dollar

7 value of that is for your colleges and

8 universities?

9 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Well, the

10 HECap program is $35 million, so if you have

11 a match of three-to-one, you'll have upwards

12 of $100 million.

13 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES: Okay.

14 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Unfortunately,

15 many of our schools just aren't in the

16 position to make that three-to-one match at

17 this point.

18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES: Okay.

19 I'm just trying to get an understanding of

20 how we can wrap our heads around these two

21 things as they relate to private schools and

22 universities. As you know, I have 11 of them

23 in my area, and they all do -- actually do

24 very well.

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1 And I also noticed in your comments

2 that a lot of students of color are

3 successful at private colleges and

4 universities, graduating on time. And those

5 that don't, your programs are successful at

6 retaining them until they graduate. I wonder

7 if your staff and administrators look the

8 same as the student population.

9 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: I don't have

10 that data with me now. I can look into it.

11 Clearly our schools are placing a

12 premium on diversity, on ensuring that the

13 students we bring in have role models like

14 themselves who have similar life experiences.

15 But I could try to get you some data on that.

16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES: Okay.

17 Well, I would love to see that data if you're

18 able to get access to it.

19 Finally, it's going to be a challenge

20 for us to figure out how to balance a budget

21 when we have less resources coming from every

22 direction. But, you know, some things are

23 really important, and clearly higher ed is

24 the thing that fuels our economy. And so I

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1 can just say from my perspective that there

2 will be efforts put in to make sure that

3 students have access to good quality higher

4 ed in the State of New York.

5 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Well, I

6 appreciate that. And when you look at -- and

7 I know there are lots of tradeoffs in this

8 budget. But when you look at an investment

9 of $35 million to ensure that we continue to

10 have a solid network of private

11 not-for-profit colleges, that doesn't just

12 benefit our students, that benefits SUNY and

13 CUNY students as well.

14 You've heard today that there are

15 stresses in those systems as well. Imagine

16 how those stresses would be exacerbated if

17 students were to feel that our schools were

18 no longer a viable option and that they had

19 to go to the SUNY and CUNY system.

20 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES: Okay, I

21 notice I have one minute and 32 seconds, so

22 let me just ask this question quickly. As it

23 relates to student debt, when students are

24 done with graduation, four year or six year,

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1 how do your private schools match with, say,

2 SUNY or CUNY?

3 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Yes, you'll

4 see some numbers in my testimony,

5 Assemblymember.

6 Our average debt after four years --

7 we know that the key to being able to repay

8 borrowing is to complete your degree, so

9 that's why we're so pleased that we do so

10 well on that -- is about $30,000. SUNY's

11 average borrowing is about $27,000 for four

12 years.

13 You'll hear a lot of talk about people

14 owing hundreds of thousands of dollars. Only

15 5 percent of all student borrowers owe over

16 $100,000, and those are borrowers who tend to

17 go on for advanced degrees. They're also

18 borrowers who are most likely to be able to

19 repay, because those advanced degrees are

20 bringing them a very good return on their

21 investment.

22 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES: So the

23 average student that graduates from, say --

24 I'll just pick Medaille -- ends up with a

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1 debt load of $30,000 or so?

2 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Correct.

3 Correct. Which I think this is a national

4 number --

5 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES: That's

6 surprising.

7 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: -- but about

8 4 percent of your income goes towards

9 repaying your student loan over about a

10 10-year period.

11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PEOPLES-STOKES: Okay.

12 Thank you.

13 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Sure.

14 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Sorry. Senator

15 Stavisky.

16 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you. Thank

17 you for coming.

18 Can you bring the loss of Bundy Aid

19 down to the local level? In other words, as

20 Senator Young mentioned about

21 St. Bonaventure, how is that going to affect

22 the local community if you lay off X number

23 of people?

24 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Absolutely.

326

1 Well, we know that we can certainly

2 tell, and I can give some examples of -- we

3 certainly know what kind of economic impact

4 our schools bring throughout the state.

5 We know, for instance, in the North

6 Country we have an economic impact of

7 $675 million, we employ -- we are responsible

8 for almost 4,600 jobs. In the Southern Tier,

9 we have an impact of $5.3 billion, we're

10 responsible for about 35,000 jobs.

11 Any diminution of funding that causes

12 a retrenchment in our schools will impact our

13 job numbers. We certainly hope it would

14 never be such a retrenchment that you would

15 see schools having to make the ultimate sorts

16 of decisions, but we clearly know that when

17 we lose enrollment, when we're not in a

18 position to keep students because they know

19 they're having issues with affordability --

20 and a loss of Bundy will exacerbate that --

21 we know that that impacts jobs.

22 SENATOR STAVISKY: Well, in other

23 words, what you're -- extrapolating what

24 you're saying, that there's going to be a

327

1 burden on the local social services --

2 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Absolutely.

3 We are such a major presence, and you all who

4 have our schools or are near our schools know

5 that as well as I. We are such a major

6 presence, when we catch a cold, you sneeze,

7 or whatever it is they say.

8 SENATOR STAVISKY: Everybody sneezes.

9 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: And it's

10 really bad flu season, so we don't want that

11 to go around.

12 SENATOR STAVISKY: Let me ask you one

13 other totally different question, and that is

14 the HECap awards. I know we've spoken about

15 it.

16 The first part of the question is,

17 have any of the colleges had a problem in

18 meeting the three-for-one match? And the

19 second part, are there any other ways that it

20 can be done? I was thinking perhaps in terms

21 of endowment or some other mechanism.

22 Are there any other ways that

23 institutions can receive capital money

24 without the onerous burden -- if they just

328

1 can't raise the --

2 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Yup, our

3 schools --

4 SENATOR STAVISKY: You know,

5 Columbia -- with all due respect, they'll

6 have no problem matching.

7 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Right.

8 SENATOR STAVISKY: But St. John's used

9 to be in my district, and they received a

10 HECap award about 10 years ago.

11 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Right.

12 SENATOR STAVISKY: I don't know --

13 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: So I think the

14 match requirement, you know, really depends

15 on the school's situation at any point in

16 time and how critical the capital repair is,

17 whether they're going to put that match

18 requirement ahead of other things. But I do

19 think for some schools the match requirement

20 is a very difficult thing.

21 The fact that it does take a long

22 period of time to access the money, and

23 during that period of time, time is money --

24 so if you were hoping to get shovels in the

329

1 ground on a building and it's taking a year

2 to know whether you're going to get the HECap

3 award, that's going to affect your

4 willingness to participate in the program.

5 When the program was first conceived

6 in 2005, it was a formulaic program where

7 every campus received money based on their

8 graduation rates, their TAP enrollment, and

9 that allowed campuses to better plan for how

10 they would use the money. They knew they'd

11 be getting it, they knew they could, over

12 time, accumulate the match that they would

13 need. There was a three-to-one match, but

14 because they knew how much they'd be getting,

15 they also knew how much of a match they'd

16 have to put in and they could plan for it.

17 That's something we'd certainly like

18 to discuss, whether we can go back to that

19 sort of formulaic approach.

20 SENATOR STAVISKY: Right.

21 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: And I think it

22 cuts out a lot of the administrative burdens

23 of running the program.

24 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yeah, I've heard

330

1 complaints about the lack of speed in

2 receiving the funding that they've already

3 planned and are entitled to receive.

4 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Yeah, and our

5 schools like the program. And we're very --

6 we're very pleased that right now we're in

7 the middle of a competition, and there's

8 $70 million out there. It's a few years of

9 funding that hadn't been released, so now

10 it's being released, and we're very grateful

11 for that.

12 It's just -- I think our main takeaway

13 from all this is we certainly hope it won't

14 be an either/or, either Bundy or HECap.

15 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you.

16 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

17 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Victor

18 Pichardo.

19 ASSEMBLYMAN PICHARDO: Thank you,

20 Madam Chair.

21 Madam President, thank you for your

22 time today at this hearing.

23 I have two questions. I'll try to

24 keep as brief as possible. So first and

331

1 foremost, in your testimony you mentioned

2 that part of the point is to provide a

3 separate match for minorities serving

4 institutions.

5 You have 18 undergraduate campuses

6 that are considered 25 percent or more as

7 minority-serving institutions. So what would

8 be the difference in the cost between a

9 non-minority-serving institution to one of

10 the minority-serving institutions? What is

11 the difference to the school, and what is the

12 difference to the state in terms of the

13 Excelsior program?

14 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: We can get you

15 some -- I'll have to get back to you on data

16 on what the net cost of some of our

17 minority-serving institutions is versus a

18 non-minority-serving institution.

19 ASSEMBLYMAN PICHARDO: Sure.

20 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: But I think

21 the important takeaway from that is we

22 already have colleges, particularly

23 minority-serving institutions, that because

24 they keep their tuition very low, they don't

332

1 have the capacity to provide significant

2 financial aid. Nor do they necessarily need

3 to provide significant financial aid, because

4 they have measured their tuition to know

5 that's affordable for the students that

6 they're serving.

7 So when you come in with a program

8 like the Enhanced Tuition Award and you tell

9 those institutions "Your students can only

10 get this money if you provide a match," they

11 are the least likely to have the resources --

12 because they are a low-tuition institution --

13 to be able to provide that, and therefore

14 their students are not able to access the

15 money that's made available.

16 ASSEMBLYMAN PICHARDO: If you can give

17 me just a -- even a ballpark figure just to

18 have a sense, that would be great.

19 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Okay.

20 ASSEMBLYMAN PICHARDO: And my second

21 question -- I think I already know the answer

22 to this, but you mentioned earlier that the

23 Legislature passed in both houses to extend

24 two state scholarship programs to allow

333

1 students at private not-for-profit colleges

2 and universities to benefit, and the

3 Executive vetoed it.

4 Did the Executive include this in his

5 budget?

6 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: They were not

7 included. But I'm hopeful that we can have

8 discussions about it.

9 I know it's a tough budget year, I

10 know the Governor, and there's lots of

11 decisions that need to be made by my friends

12 in the Budget Division, and I just hope we

13 can discuss some of these issues.

14 ASSEMBLYMAN PICHARDO: Hope springs

15 eternal. Thank you, Madam President.

16 Thank you, Madam Chair.

17 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Senator Krueger.

18 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

19 So Bundy Aid's $35 million. The

20 Governor seems to imply in his budget he's

21 taking that, but he's giving you the capital

22 money. You pointed out here that you

23 don't -- one, you would like both, but two,

24 you see it as apples and oranges and

334

1 different issues.

2 I need to understand a little more

3 about how Bundy Aid is distributed among --

4 you have 110 members?

5 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: A little --

6 right. Right.

7 SENATOR KRUEGER: So is it just

8 $350,000 each college? Or how --

9 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: No, it's based

10 on actually the mean -- the mean award is

11 about $330,000 per college. But it varies

12 significantly based on degrees awarded.

13 SENATOR KRUEGER: The number of

14 degrees awarded.

15 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: So there is an

16 incentive. It's outcome-based, in that if

17 you're not graduating students -- and we know

18 there are bad outcomes for students who start

19 college and aren't able to finish, so we know

20 how important it is to get them over the

21 finish line. So it's based on, basically,

22 the number of degrees you award.

23 SENATOR KRUEGER: But not necessarily

24 the number of low-income students you're

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1 providing degrees to --

2 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Correct.

3 SENATOR KRUEGER: -- just across the

4 board.

5 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Correct.

6 SENATOR KRUEGER: But the Bundy Aid

7 itself is then used by the colleges

8 specifically as financial assistance to

9 low-income students?

10 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Bundy Aid is

11 unrestricted, but one of the requirements of

12 the program is that they submit to HESC what

13 the use of the money and the purpose of the

14 money -- and the money is primarily used for

15 financial aid. And really any money that

16 goes towards reducing the need for a tuition

17 increase or tuition revenues is really aid

18 that's going to help the student.

19 SENATOR KRUEGER: And are you able to

20 give me an estimate so -- you said the mean

21 distribution is $330,000 per institution. Do

22 you know what the mean distribution of

23 financial aid in total for your schools are,

24 on average?

336

1 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: We know that

2 our schools provide about $5.4 billion a year

3 in total. I don't have -- I could see if I

4 could get how that breaks out.

5 SENATOR KRUEGER: Five-point-four

6 billion a year --

7 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Billion. From

8 their own resources, right.

9 SENATOR KRUEGER: -- of financial aid.

10 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Right.

11 And I have to say, it's amazing when

12 you -- relatively small schools, when I hear

13 the kind of money they put into financial

14 aid, I'm kind of blown out of the water. You

15 will have a small school that's providing

16 $20 million, $30 million of financial aid a

17 year. And they do that by discounting their

18 tuitions.

19 SENATOR KRUEGER: So I know you

20 originally from your work in Budget. So all

21 in all, as much as $35 million sounds like a

22 lot of money for any of us to lose, it's a

23 relatively small amount of money for these

24 institutions to lose in the total package of

337

1 financial assistance that they are providing.

2 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: I would

3 disagree with you on that. I think our

4 schools, so many of our schools are so

5 challenged at this point that -- you know,

6 and again, it will sound cliched, but every

7 dollar counts.

8 If a school that is -- if a school

9 loses $100,000, there is going to be less

10 financial aid. They simply -- there are only

11 a certain number of avenues schools can go

12 down anymore to find revenues. We're trying

13 to keep a line on tuition revenues. There's

14 only so many places one can look.

15 So I think it is very impactful for

16 our schools to lose this money. I also think

17 it sends a message to our schools. Our

18 schools have always looked at Bundy Aid as

19 kind of that covenant between the state and

20 our private colleges, that we want you here,

21 we need you here to help educate 1.2 million

22 students. We can't do it alone, taxpayers

23 can't do it alone.

24 If you take away that sole funding

338

1 source that is for private colleges and

2 private colleges only, I do fear it really

3 kind of starts redefining the state's

4 relationship with our private colleges.

5 SENATOR KRUEGER: And because the

6 Governor's people make the argument it's a

7 small drop in the bucket á la the math we

8 just discussed, and it's not necessarily

9 going to the schools in greatest need of more

10 assistance and financial aid, is there a way

11 to rethink targeting the Bundy Aid to, as you

12 just described, the schools who have the

13 greatest need and are serving the significant

14 numbers of low-income students who would not

15 be able to go to these institutions if not

16 for this money? Is there a way to rethink it

17 in light of the debate that's going on with

18 the Governor's budget?

19 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: You know, I

20 think the first thing -- I think that

21 conversation becomes more possible if we were

22 to fully fund the program.

23 But at $35 million, I think the way to

24 distribute it now is fair. We have some

339

1 schools that are larger schools that confer

2 more degrees -- those are incredibly

3 important schools both to local economies, to

4 the opportunities that they provide students,

5 to our national and international

6 reputation -- and I think they need to be

7 part of that, part of that assistance.

8 And they are also the very schools

9 that when they're able to recruit low-income

10 students, those students go at an

11 incredibly -- many of them for free or at

12 incredibly reduced cost. And it's things

13 like Bundy that make it possible and really

14 incentivize our schools to have more skin in

15 the game.

16 SENATOR KRUEGER: And what would be

17 your definition of a fully funded Bundy Aid

18 program fee?

19 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: The statute --

20 and I'm not calling for it this year, but if

21 anyone wants to do it, go ahead. The statute

22 would, if you ran the formula that's in the

23 statute, it'd be about $181 million.

24 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you very much.

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1 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Assemblywoman

2 Fahy.

3 ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY: Thank you,

4 Madam Chair. I appreciate it.

5 And thank you, Ms. Labate. It's great

6 to have you here, and I very much appreciate

7 your testimony.

8 And I have to say this -- it may be a

9 rare moment, I rarely would have to disagree

10 with my friend and colleague Senator Krueger,

11 but $35 million sounds like a big number to

12 me from the Bundy Aid, with all due respect

13 to Senator Krueger.

14 SENATOR KRUEGER: (Inaudible.)

15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY: So with all due

16 respect, it sounds like a very big number,

17 and I know -- I very proudly represent a few

18 private schools -- St. Rose, Sage Colleges,

19 College of Pharmacy. And they -- well, I

20 know many of them really try to be as

21 supportive as possible -- the Excelsior

22 program last year -- they also recognize the

23 financial challenges that they face. And the

24 one thing I have so appreciated about --

341

1 especially here in upstate New York, because

2 I'm not a native New Yorker, is the wealth of

3 options. Because different things work for

4 different students, and I hear this all the

5 time from my own children and their friends.

6 Some children thrive and want large campuses,

7 and others need more of that intimacy that

8 they may get at the smallest of the

9 colleges -- in my area, Maria College.

10 So the Bundy Aid is of particular

11 concern. And I also want to echo the

12 comments of another colleague, Assemblywoman

13 Peoples-Stokes, and the thing I've been most

14 impressed with, with some of the private

15 schools, and that is their graduation rates

16 of underrepresented populations, children of

17 color. And again, it's the graduation rates.

18 So if you could just -- if you have

19 any statistics at your fingers, that would

20 really help me. And I also need to know that

21 I'm one of the two bills -- it was my bill

22 that was vetoed last year. I was

23 disappointed that it wasn't put into the

24 budget, because it was vetoed based on the

342

1 budgetary concerns with regards to master's

2 in teaching education. So I would welcome

3 the opportunity to work with you and of

4 course my colleagues here again with moving

5 that bill and ideally even putting it into

6 the budget.

7 But could you just talk a little bit

8 about the impact -- it seems like there's a

9 real divide in some of the private schools,

10 and the Bundy Aid would be, I would think,

11 just devastating, the loss of that.

12 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: I think it

13 would be. I think it would, for some -- for

14 many of our schools that again are on

15 razor -- are on thin margins. They're okay,

16 but they're on thin margins, and yet another

17 hit to the system, I think, would be -- what

18 it will mean is less financial aid for

19 students or less support for jobs in the

20 communities, jobs at the campuses.

21 There will be some impact, and some

22 impacts that I don't think any of us want to

23 see when a school loses aid from the state.

24 There simply are not a lot of avenues to go

343

1 down for many of those schools to make that

2 up.

3 ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY: Okay. And

4 Bundy Aid at its height -- I know you were

5 just asked about what you would be entitled

6 to overall, but at its height I understand it

7 was much bigger a few years ago. So you're

8 already at -- this is an all-time low anyway,

9 the $35 million, is that the lowest it has

10 been?

11 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: It has been 35

12 for about four years now. It was a little

13 over 44 before that. It was cut in half, I

14 believe, in the 1980s, and that was a really

15 hard pill to swallow. But we have been

16 holding firm at 35 -- about 35 million.

17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY: For four years.

18 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: And it's an

19 important 35.

20 ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY: Okay. Any

21 follow-up statistics on students of color,

22 the graduation rates --

23 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: We can get

24 that -- let me get you that.

344

1 ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY: Because I know

2 that -- I remember some of those from last

3 year, and they were very powerful.

4 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Yeah, okay.

5 ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY: I look forward to

6 working with you on all of this, because I

7 share many of the concerns that you've raised

8 today.

9 And thank you again, Madam Chair.

10 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Thank you.

11 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

12 Thanks for your testimony here today.

13 CICU PRESIDENT LABATE: Thank you.

14 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

15 Next, NYPIRG, Smitha Varghese.

16 MS. VARGHESE: Good afternoon. My

17 name is Smitha Varghese. I am the

18 chairperson of the New York Public Interest

19 Research Group, otherwise known as NYPIRG. I

20 am also a student at Queens College.

21 With me today is Conner Wolfe, who is

22 NYPIRG's legislative policy associate. He is

23 also working on our higher education

24 campaign, and he goes to SUNY Oneonta. And

345

1 Blair Horner, our executive director, is with

2 us as well.

3 As you may know, NYPIRG is a

4 statewide, college-student-directed

5 organization. All of the members of our

6 board of directors are college students

7 elected by the student body at each of the

8 campuses that have voted to have a NYPIRG

9 chapter. We have chapters at SUNY, CUNY, and

10 independent colleges.

11 We appreciate this opportunity to

12 share our preliminary perspective on the

13 Governor's 2018-2019 Executive Budget for

14 higher education in New York State. We will

15 now summarize our written testimony, and

16 we're available to take questions afterwards.

17 MR. WOLFE: Both the public and

18 independent college sectors provide important

19 services to their at-risk students, those who

20 come from educationally disadvantaged

21 communities and have qualified for college

22 admission. These opportunity programs,

23 including HEOP, EOP, SEEK, and ASAP, are an

24 incredible asset to the State of New York.

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1 They are often designed for the educationally

2 and economically disadvantaged and have a

3 steady track record of success in increasing

4 graduation rates.

5 Students involved in the nationally

6 recognized ASAP program offered by the City

7 University of New York graduate at more than

8 double the rate of non-ASAP students, with

9 increases in graduation rates after three

10 years of at least 30 percent.

11 In addition, we urge that Bundy Aid be

12 restored. These programs' successes are

13 bolstered by not only providing resources

14 like economic counseling but, in cases like

15 ASAP, the ASAP program at CUNY, money for

16 textbooks, tuition, and transportation.

17 Programs known to be widely successful -- and

18 in many cases the only opportunity some

19 students may have to pursue a higher

20 education -- must be adequately funded by the

21 government. NYPIRG strongly urges the

22 Legislature to reject the Executive's

23 proposed cuts to these important programs and

24 to take steps towards expanding funding to

347

1 these opportunity programs.

2 The biggest financial aid program in

3 the State of New York is the Tuition

4 Assistance Program. Like the opportunity

5 programs, TAP offers assistance to

6 lower-income college students in both the

7 public and independent college sectors.

8 TAP should cover more than the cost of

9 tuition for those who qualify and be flexible

10 enough to meet the needs of all types of

11 New Yorkers, not just the traditional

12 straight-from-high-school-to-college

13 full-time student it was initially designed

14 to serve.

15 Regarding public colleges, the maximum

16 TAP award should cover the full tuition

17 charge. Beyond that, TAP should expand to

18 offer assistance to part-time students,

19 undocumented students, incarcerated

20 individuals, and graduate students.

21 The Governor took a positive step by

22 including funding for college students who

23 are undocumented. We now urge your support.

24 MS. VARGHESE: Now, last year we

348

1 strongly supported the stated position of

2 Governor Cuomo that the cost of attending

3 public college has become too expensive and

4 that the state should ensure that low-,

5 moderate-, and middle-income college students

6 can all attend public college tuition-free.

7 Thus we supported the philosophy behind the

8 Governor's proposed Excelsior Scholarship

9 Program, which would charge no tuition to

10 students whose income does not exceed

11 $125,000.

12 However, like many first-year

13 programs, there are additional steps that

14 should be taken to help it achieve its goals.

15 As you know, Excelsior recipients that fail

16 to graduate within four years are faced with

17 a daunting problem: The entire previous four

18 years of free tuition get turned into a loan

19 which they then must pay off.

20 Additionally, since there is a

21 30-credit per year requirement to maintain

22 Excelsior eligibility, SUNY and CUNY will

23 need to ensure that courses are available to

24 them. Yet according to a CUNY survey, over a

349

1 third of CUNY students reported not being

2 able to register for a course they needed for

3 their major.

4 To ensure that students are able to

5 graduate on time, more funding must go

6 towards expanded course availability and

7 student advisement services. We have heard

8 from a number of students who struggle to

9 balance their full-time course load, jobs,

10 and personal obligations. Some students

11 can't afford to take a full-time course load.

12 In a recent report put out by the CUNY Office

13 of Institutional Research and Assessment, of

14 students that work, 79 percent reported that

15 they work to pay for living expenses, and

16 over a third of those who work believe that

17 having a job negatively impacts their

18 academic performance.

19 While it's laudable that the Excelsior

20 Scholarship will increase its income

21 threshold to $110,000 and more students will

22 qualify for free tuition, we urge that the

23 program be further expanded to students in

24 need, including part-time students.

350

1 In addition, this year's Executive

2 Budget continues to hike tuition for all SUNY

3 and CUNY students who don't qualify for

4 financial assistance. Ironically, this year

5 the Executive wants to do more to protect

6 college students from the predatory student

7 loan practices. While we urge support for

8 that proposal, freezing public college

9 tuition would help even more by reducing the

10 need to take out student loans to begin with.

11 We urge that the Legislature freeze tuition

12 this year.

13 In order to ensure that more

14 affordable public higher education comes

15 without compromising quality, our

16 universities must receive more state support.

17 State funding remains largely flat, even as

18 the costs to maintain SUNY and CUNY have

19 increased. NYPIRG recommends that the

20 Legislature enhance funding for CUNY and SUNY

21 senior and community colleges in order to

22 help students get the classes they need to

23 graduate, reduce class sizes, and bolster

24 student advisement.

351

1 We also support the Governor's

2 proposal to require that public colleges

3 establish food pantries. A recent report by

4 NYPIRG and other groups looked at food

5 insecurity on college campuses. Consistent

6 with prior studies, 48 percent of respondents

7 reported food insecurity in the previous

8 30 days. That's 48 percent. NYPIRG urges

9 that the Legislature include monies in the

10 budget to allow public and independent

11 colleges and universities to develop

12 recommendations on how best to tackle food

13 and housing insecurities, including opening

14 food pantries at all CUNY and SUNY campuses.

15 MR. WOLFE: In conclusion, the demand

16 to graduate more students from college with

17 less student loan debt should result in

18 policies that both decrease tuition and

19 increase state support to institutions of

20 higher education, as well as funding to

21 financial aid programs such as TAP and the

22 Excelsior scholarship. In order to provide a

23 quality and affordable higher education for

24 all New Yorkers, the state must commit itself

352

1 to increasing public funding.

2 Thank you.

3 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

4 Briefly to Assemblywoman Glick.

5 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: First of all,

6 thank you for your communication with us.

7 I know that you have some more

8 detailed information on the inability of

9 students to get course sections, which is

10 obviously a concern of ours, so at some point

11 if we could have the data that you have on

12 that, that would be very helpful.

13 And I thank you for your continuing

14 advocacy on behalf of college students, of

15 one I used to be, and thank you for -- where?

16 I'm a Queens alum, so --

17 MS. VARGHESE: Oh, cool.

18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Thank you very

19 much for being here today.

20 MS. VARGHESE: Thank you.

21 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

22 Senator Stavisky.

23 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you.

24 Assemblywoman, I am also a -- I was a

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1 graduate student at Queens College. And I

2 thank you for coming. Queens College is in

3 my Senate district, so I'm particularly

4 proud, and I've had a -- Blair is smiling,

5 because he knows I've had a long connection

6 through mutual friends, so to speak, with

7 NYPIRG. And I thank you.

8 Let me ask you one question. You

9 have -- if you've been listening to the

10 testimony here today, what's your reaction?

11 How do you feel about what the

12 administrators, the higher-ups at SUNY and

13 CUNY and the private colleges are saying?

14 How do you feel as a student?

15 MS. VARGHESE: I just feel, as a

16 student, that there needs to be more of a

17 conversation on the fact that low-income

18 students are kind of getting the lower end of

19 all of this.

20 You know, I'm low-income, and I

21 wouldn't be able to go to Queens College, I

22 wouldn't be able be here today if it were not

23 for TAP. My brother is a SEEK recipient as

24 well.

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1 But they're cutting the funding for

2 the most vulnerable students, and I feel like

3 that conversation hasn't really been talked

4 about so much.

5 SENATOR STAVISKY: Well, thank you for

6 what you're doing. We're very proud of

7 Queens College, and we're proud of everything

8 that takes place there, as well as other

9 institutions of CUNY.

10 Thank you.

11 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

12 Senator Savino would like to speak.

13 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you.

14 Thank you for your testimony. You

15 mentioned towards the end of your testimony

16 the issue of food insecurity, and you're not

17 the first people to talk about that today.

18 And I think we don't really think about that,

19 but the number of students that are actually

20 suffering from food insecurity is rising.

21 And you mentioned the CUNY program

22 which is kind of like a facilitated

23 enrollment program which identifies students

24 based on their financial need and tries to

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1 match them up with whatever potential

2 benefits they might be entitled to. Is that

3 only happening at CUNY? Or do other -- to

4 the best of your knowledge, do other -- does

5 SUNY do that, do other private colleges do

6 that? Do they have a similar program?

7 Because I think that that would be one of the

8 ways to help close that gap.

9 If you don't know the answer, that's

10 fine, but I think it's something that we

11 can --

12 MR. HORNER: The short answer is --

13 the Single Stop program?

14 SENATOR SAVINO: Yeah.

15 MR. HORNER: I don't believe that SUNY

16 has a program in the same way as CUNY does.

17 SENATOR SAVINO: I'm sorry, say that

18 again, Blair?

19 MR. HORNER: They don't have a program

20 in the same way as CUNY.

21 SENATOR SAVINO: In the same way --

22 but that would certainly be something that I

23 think we should be advocating for, because

24 again, there should be a place where the

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1 student walks in the door and the first thing

2 they encounter besides the bill or the

3 tuition bill is access to information that

4 could help them remain in school.

5 And if being food-insecure is one of

6 them, they may not know they're eligible for

7 SNAP, they may not know that they're eligible

8 for cash assistance or what other benefits

9 might exist there.

10 So it's great that CUNY seems to be

11 doing it. I'd be interested to see where

12 they do it, at what point of interaction with

13 students, and then how we can encourage other

14 universities to do that. Because local

15 social service agencies could certainly

16 participate in expanding information in what

17 we call the facilitated enrollment process.

18 Thank you.

19 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

20 Thank you for being here today.

21 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

22 MR. HORNER: Thank you.

23 MS. VARGHESE: Thank you.

24 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Next we have

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1 the Association of Proprietary Colleges,

2 Donna Gurnett, president.

3 MS. STELLING-GURNETT: All right. Can

4 you hear me? Okay.

5 Chairwoman Young, Chairwoman

6 Weinstein, Assemblywoman Glick, members of

7 the Legislature, thank you for this

8 opportunity to present this testimony on

9 behalf of the Association of Proprietary

10 Colleges. My name is Donna Stelling-Gurnett,

11 and I'm the president of the association, and

12 it's my honor to be here today.

13 APC represents the degree-granting

14 proprietary sector here in New York State.

15 We currently have 12 members located on

16 23 campuses across the state, and all of our

17 members offer at least associate degrees.

18 Most also offer bachelor's degrees, and some

19 offer master's and doctoral-level programs.

20 APC members have a long-standing

21 history of providing an affordable and

22 quality education. Most APC members are

23 privately held, family-owned-and-operated

24 institutions handed down from generation to

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1 generation. On average, our members have

2 been in existence for over 90 years, and more

3 than half of our members have been founded

4 over 100 years ago.

5 We educate over 35,000 students and

6 employ more than 6,000 faculty and staff,

7 making our members strong economic drivers in

8 their local communities. APC members are

9 committed to keeping student loan debt low,

10 academic achievement high, and the pathway to

11 employment is our priority.

12 Now I'd like to talk with you today

13 about the Enhanced Tuition Assistance

14 program, or ETA, and its impact on our

15 sector. As you know, during the last budget

16 year the Enhanced Tuition Assistance program

17 was founded to provide additional financial

18 support for students attending the state's

19 private not-for-profit colleges.

20 Unfortunately, students attending the

21 state's proprietary colleges were

22 inadvertently left out of this program. So

23 I'd like to take this opportunity to thank

24 the Legislature and particularly

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1 Assemblyman Pichardo and Senator Klein, who

2 introduced legislation in both houses that

3 essentially expanded the definition of a

4 private institution to include students that

5 attend all private colleges in New York

6 State. These measures passed with

7 overwhelming bipartisan support.

8 However, unfortunately, late last

9 month when the measure went to Governor

10 Cuomo, it was vetoed and he indicated that

11 these were issues that should be renegotiated

12 during the next legislative session.

13 So as we start this new session, we're

14 hopeful that we will be able to get this

15 oversight corrected. Both Senator Klein and

16 Assemblyman Pichardo have once again

17 introduced legislation that would enable all

18 students attending private colleges to

19 participate in the ETA program. Senate Bill

20 7353 and Assembly Bill 7697 have recently

21 been introduced, and I would ask for your

22 support of these two measures.

23 We think that students attending

24 APC-member colleges are a perfect fit for the

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1 ETA program. For instance, over 90 percent

2 of our students come from New York State, and

3 over 90 percent of our graduates remain in

4 the state to live and work. As well, our

5 on-time graduation rates are very strong, our

6 associate and bachelor-level rates are in

7 line -- they either meet or exceed the

8 statewide average, and many of our colleges

9 offer a three 12-credit semester education

10 model which encourages their students to

11 attend college year-round, which actually

12 makes them be able to graduate early. We

13 also think that on-time graduation is key to

14 keeping student loan debt low.

15 APC members are known for their small

16 classroom sizes, individual attention,

17 financial aid counseling, and financial

18 literacy training -- and these are all key

19 components to keeping student loan debt low.

20 In fact, if you look at the data from the

21 college scorecard, you'll see that students

22 at APC member institutions carry $21,900 in

23 student loan debt. So that's significantly

24 lower than we see at the state average of

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1 $32,000 or the national average of $29,000.

2 As well, we have high job placement

3 rates, with over 85 percent of our graduates

4 finding jobs in their field of study within

5 12 months of graduation.

6 And finally, APC member institutions

7 educate a truly diverse student body. We

8 have a high percentage of women, minorities,

9 and veterans, all exactly the type of student

10 that the ETA program was designed to help.

11 In my written testimony I provide many

12 stories, personal stories from students that

13 would benefit from the ETA program if they

14 were eligible to participate. We estimate

15 that approximately 8500 students would be

16 eligible for an ETA award at some level, for

17 a total usage of between $5 million and

18 $7 million. So I ask you to consider these

19 stories and support parity for our students

20 by allowing them to participate in the ETA

21 program.

22 In conclusion, I'd like to thank you

23 for your past support of our students and ask

24 that you please consider our request, and I'm

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1 happy to answer any questions. Thank you.

2 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: I think we'll

3 pass with that shout-out to Assemblyman

4 Pichardo and -- unless, Senator Young, do

5 you?

6 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: I just want to say

7 thank you so much for your testimony today.

8 The Legislature did want to fix the

9 situation with the Excelsior Scholarship

10 Program last year. We did take action. And

11 as you know, you have several members that

12 range all the way from New York City to

13 Long Island to Western New York, including

14 Jamestown Business College in my district --

15 MS. STELLING-GURNETT: Right.

16 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: They all do a great

17 job. The job placement rate from the

18 business colleges is phenomenal, and we need

19 to have them as part of our array of

20 educational opportunities for people so that

21 they can go out, join the workforce, and have

22 productive careers.

23 So I want to thank you for your

24 advocacy. And I know with the veto message

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1 the Governor said that it was a budget issue,

2 it needs to be solved in the state budget, so

3 I agree that now is the time to take care of

4 that. So thank you so much.

5 MS. STELLING-GURNETT: Thank you.

6 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

7 SENATOR STAVISKY: On behalf of Plaza

8 and Monroe, we thank you.

9 MS. STELLING-GURNETT: Oh, thank you

10 very much.

11 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: So I think

12 that's it. If there are any follow-up

13 questions, we'll be in touch by email.

14 MS. STELLING-GURNETT: Okay. Thank

15 you very much.

16 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

17 Our next witnesses are On Point for

18 College, three individuals: Samuel Rowser,

19 Kevin Marken, Allison Palmer. Actually --

20 and Judy Lorimer. Four. Well, I guess the

21 women decided not to stay.

22 MR. ROWSER: Good afternoon.

23 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Good afternoon.

24 MR. ROWSER: Judy and Allison won't be

364

1 accompanying us. They couldn't get out of

2 New York City quick enough, so they weren't

3 able to make it.

4 My name is Sam Rowser. I'm the

5 executive director for On Point for College,

6 and I have Kevin Marken, who is director for

7 our On Point programming --

8 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Can you pull

9 the mic a little closer to you?

10 MR. ROWSER: Sure. A little better?

11 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Much better.

12 MR. ROWSER: Okay. Again, my name is

13 Sam Rowser, I'm the executive director for

14 On Point for College in Syracuse, and I have

15 with me Kevin Marken, who is director for

16 On Point in Utica.

17 I want to thank you, Madam Chair, for

18 this opportunity to share with you and the

19 Joint Budget Higher Ed Committee the NYS

20 Postsecondary Success Network, and that is a

21 combination of On Point for College,

22 Goddard Riverside Options Program, and the

23 New Settlement Apartments Program.

24 Today, On Point has evolved in two

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1 offices. We have over 24 employees, and

2 7,000 students have enrolled in college. In

3 2012, On Point received funding from the HESC

4 organization. It was part of the College

5 Access Challenge Grant, a federal grant that

6 enabled On Point to double its staff in

7 Syracuse, open a site in Utica, and provide

8 funding and guidance for a retention program

9 at the Goddard Riverside Options Program in

10 Manhattan and New Settlement Apartments in

11 the Bronx.

12 This is the origin of the NYS

13 Postsecondary Success Network. Participants

14 in this program are 17-to-29 years old,

15 low-income, first generation. Services are

16 provided in 24 community centers, Boys and

17 Girls Clubs, settlement houses, homeless

18 shelters, libraries, municipal housing,

19 refugee schools, GED sites. Most of our

20 participants are not in high school when they

21 join our programs.

22 In one of our programs, 30 percent of

23 the students that participate have no parent

24 in their life, and 70 percent return for

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1 their second year of college.

2 One of the unique elements beyond

3 FAFSA and college application is the

4 non-academic support that we provide. We

5 meet students in their neighborhoods and

6 provide college supplies, transportation to

7 New York State colleges through on-campus

8 visits. In the first three weeks, we visit

9 all of our students when they go away to

10 college. We want to make sure they have

11 their books, food, and meet their campus

12 angels.

13 We continue our campus visits monthly

14 for any of our students that are attending

15 two-year colleges, weekly for community

16 colleges in Syracuse, Utica, Herkimer, and

17 New York City. We provide reenrollment

18 services, transfer services, job placement

19 certificate program information, and free

20 summer housing at Le Moyne College in

21 Syracuse for homeless youth from any of our

22 network locations.

23 Our vulnerable youth get help with

24 eyeglasses, winter coats, and dentistry. For

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1 on-campus support, On Point supports all our

2 network students in upstate New York, while

3 Options and New Settlement work with all our

4 students in downstate New York.

5 The Federal College Access Grant which

6 was administered by HESC ended in August of

7 2016. Because of that support and funding,

8 from 2012 to 2016 the NYS Postsecondary

9 Network increased the number of students

10 enrolled in college.

11 The decrease in funding has resulted

12 in a decrease in staff and funding for basic

13 needs. We're not able to support as many

14 students as we could before, so there's fewer

15 crucial resources that keep them from

16 dropping out. We request funding to support

17 our students to the finish line.

18 I'd like to thank the New York State

19 Assembly for their support of On Point for

20 College over the last two years. They've

21 given us $400,000 to work with over those

22 last two years after the funding for HESC

23 ended. Given the funding, the network will

24 be able to build a strong foundation and

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1 position ourselves to expand next year to

2 support other students, especially the most

3 vulnerable Excelsior students.

4 We've been good stewards of the HESC

5 funding. Securing HESC funding has enabled

6 On Point to leverage over $1 million from

7 national foundations like USA Funds, Kresge,

8 TG, and Lumina. We were able to bring in

9 $2.8 million through our First in the World

10 grant. The Pell funding for the 4,000

11 students that we currently serve has allowed

12 us to raise $23 million each year for federal

13 funding. Over 10,000 students have

14 participated between the three

15 organizations -- 3,100 of those students have

16 graduated, and 4,000 of them are currently in

17 college.

18 We thank you for this opportunity to

19 share, and we are open for questions.

20 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: I think we're

21 set, not needing questions. Thank you for

22 your work in the community. And if we do

23 have any follow-up questions, we'll be sure

24 to reach out to you.

369

1 MR. ROWSER: Thank you kindly.

2 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you. We

3 appreciate you being here today.

4 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Next we have,

5 from the SUNY Student Assembly, Marc Cohen

6 and Austin Ostro, the president and the chief

7 of staff.

8 Glad you could come up here.

9 MR. COHEN: Thank you very much, Madam

10 Chair.

11 On behalf of the Student Assembly and

12 SUNY's 1.3 million students, I would like to

13 thank Chairpersons Weinstein and Young and

14 the entire Assembly Ways and Means and Senate

15 Finance Committees for allowing us to testify

16 today. I'd also like to thank Chair Glick

17 and Senator LaValle and the entire Assembly

18 Higher Ed and Senate Higher Ed Committees for

19 all that they do to support the State

20 University of New York.

21 My name is Marc Cohen. I'm a graduate

22 student at the University at Albany, and I

23 serve as president of the SUNY Student

24 Assembly and as a member of the SUNY Board of

370

1 Trustees. I'm joined by Student Assembly

2 Chief of Staff Austin Ostro.

3 The Student Assembly is the recognized

4 system-wide student government, established

5 in state law, supporting SUNY’s 1.3 million

6 full- and part-time students. The Student

7 Assembly advocates on behalf of the -- at the

8 local, state, and federal levels on behalf of

9 the collective student interests across a

10 large range of policy areas. Twice annually,

11 SUNY SA brings hundreds of the system's

12 student leaders from across the 64 campuses

13 together for our general conferences where we

14 establish our advocacy priorities, and

15 student leaders have an opportunity to

16 network and learn from one another.

17 Outside of our conferences, elected

18 representatives for our four-year and

19 community college campuses meet monthly for

20 executive committee meetings where we review

21 progress on our advocacy efforts and refine

22 our goals and strategy. The Student Assembly

23 also serves as the vehicle for representation

24 of the student voice on the SUNY Board of

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1 Trustees.

2 The Student Assembly president, by

3 statute, is a voting member of the board, the

4 only voting member not appointed by the

5 Governor. The Student Assembly also operates

6 standing committees devoted to prioritized

7 policy areas, which have open membership for

8 any interested student. Focuses of these

9 committees include diversity, equity, and

10 inclusion, sustainability, and campus safety.

11 In just her first few months in

12 office, Chancellor Kristina Johnson has gone

13 out of her way to engage the Student Assembly

14 in a wide array of policy discussions. We

15 appreciate the input SUNY allowed the

16 Student Assembly to have in crafting its

17 executive budget request in November.

18 We were pleased to see certain key

19 SUNY and Student Assembly legislative

20 priorities find their way into the budget

21 proposed by the Governor last week. We

22 applaud the Governor's call for a food pantry

23 serving every public college campus in

24 New York State so that no student need worry

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1 about where they will find their next meal as

2 they focus on excellence in education.

3 We were also pleased to see the

4 continued expansion of the Excelsior

5 Scholarship in the Governor's budget, which

6 will help even more New Yorkers access a

7 higher education.

8 There were some significant funding

9 areas where the Executive Budget falls short,

10 and we encourage legislative action to ensure

11 vital services continue to be provided to all

12 SUNY students. Last year, thanks to the

13 leadership of Assemblymember Glick and

14 Senator LaValle, $300,000 was appropriated in

15 the enacted budget to launch a pilot program

16 offering tele-mental health counseling to

17 students on four SUNY campuses, which you

18 heard Chancellor Johnson speak a bit about

19 this morning.

20 Nearly two-thirds of SUNY students

21 lack access to a full-time mental health

22 professional on their campus. Telemedicine

23 is a cutting-edge way to give them access to

24 the medical resources they need in a

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1 cost-effective way. While the program only

2 launched this past semester, we have already

3 heard from student government leaders and

4 administrators on the four pilot campuses

5 about how beneficial the program is proving

6 to be for students.

7 We would like to see the program

8 expanded in the coming budget year to 10

9 campuses, which SUNY’s Academic Affairs

10 office estimates would cost $1.15 million.

11 Unfortunately, the proposed Executive Budget

12 removes all funding for this program. It is

13 essential that the Legislature act to ensure

14 students across the system have access to the

15 mental health resources they need to thrive.

16 Successful pilot programs deserve to

17 be taken to scale, and we hope that the

18 Assembly and Senate see fit to include

19 increased funding for tele-counseling in

20 their proposed budgets. Promoting mental

21 health can have a positive impact on a host

22 of policy priorities, including combating the

23 opioid addiction, ensuring college

24 completion, keeping campuses safe, and

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1 enhancing the overall college experience.

2 As previously stated, the Student

3 Assembly appreciates the Governor's

4 commitment to combating food insecurity on

5 campuses. Nearly 25 percent of students

6 reported experiencing food insecurity in the

7 2015-2016 academic year, based on a survey of

8 students attending 40 colleges by the

9 National Student Campaign Against Hunger and

10 Homelessness.

11 We appreciate the work the SUNY system

12 and our campuses have done over the past few

13 years to promote food security. Seventy

14 percent of SUNY campuses currently operate a

15 food pantry. The Governor announced a

16 $1 million appropriation to support the

17 creation of food pantries in the lead-up to

18 the State of the State, but that

19 appropriation failed to materialize in his

20 proposed budget. At least some new funding

21 should accompany a requirement for all

22 campuses to operate food pantries or be

23 associated with one, such that they don't

24 have to redirect funding from other

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1 functions.

2 The proposed budget also continues the

3 state’s traditional full-time equivalency

4 basis for funding of community colleges. The

5 issue with using FTE as the sole basis for

6 funding is that a decrease in full-time

7 enrollment does not automatically translate

8 to a decreased need by students for academic

9 and administrative services on their

10 campuses.

11 In a year when 27 out of the 30 of our

12 community colleges are facing decreasing

13 enrollment, this issue takes particular

14 prominence. SUNY proposed changing the

15 community college formula in its budget

16 request to ensure the same type of funding

17 guarantee enjoyed by our four-year campuses

18 schools through maintenance of effort. If

19 the Legislature does not act to fix the

20 broken FTE basis for our community colleges,

21 students will suffer the consequences of cuts

22 to essential services.

23 Students were also disappointed to see

24 cuts to opportunity programs like EOP and EOC

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1 in the Governor's proposed budget. Cuts

2 exceeding $10 million to these programs would

3 harm SUNY's ability to strengthen the

4 diversity of the system and to ensure it is

5 an accessible institution for low-income,

6 often underrepresented minority New Yorkers.

7 We appreciate that in past years the

8 Legislature has added millions to the

9 Governor’s requests for these programs, but

10 thousands of EOP and EOC students are being

11 forced to worry about the future of the

12 programs they have come to rely on. The

13 budget deficit should not be erased at the

14 expense of students who need a helping hand

15 from the State of New York most.

16 Thousands of SUNY Dreamers,

17 undocumented students who come to the

18 United States through no fault of their own,

19 also have reason to worry. Washington is

20 letting them down, and many have reason to

21 fear for the future in the only country they

22 have ever known. Albany should do its part

23 to make up for Washington's failure by

24 passing the DREAM Act, which is included in

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1 the Governor’s proposed budget. Every

2 New Yorker should have access to the Tuition

3 Assistance Program and to the Excelsior

4 Scholarship, including Dreamers. The

5 Legislature should act to give these students

6 some measure of security in our state.

7 Students across the state are counting

8 on you to adequately fund the programs they

9 depend on. Remember that all money

10 appropriated towards higher education is an

11 investment in our collective future. As the

12 Chancellor noted this morning, 73 percent of

13 SUNY graduates stay in New York after they

14 complete their education.

15 Every dollar invested in SUNY yields a

16 five-to-one return, and the skills and

17 knowledge accrued at SUNY power our state's

18 economy. Properly investing in SUNY now will

19 yield tremendous benefits for New York State

20 in the decades to come.

21 Once again, I would like to thank you

22 very much for the opportunity to testify this

23 afternoon, and we look forward to answering

24 any questions you might have.

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1 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: From our Higher

2 Ed chair, Assemblywoman Glick.

3 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Good to see you

4 both again. Thank you very much for being

5 here.

6 And obviously, most of your testimony

7 is totally consistent with concerns that the

8 Assembly majority has embraced for years and

9 years. But I'd like to ask you a little bit

10 about your perspective on student fees.

11 And we touched on this with the -- I

12 think with the chancellor, but I'd like to

13 understand from the students' perspective,

14 because there was something that was said

15 about they are generally not willy-nilly from

16 one campus to another, but there isn't a

17 consistency across the system. They do

18 apparently get approved by SUNY Central, but

19 then they said something about with input

20 from the students. And I wasn't really sure

21 what that meant, whether there's any survey

22 that's done or whether it's that students

23 have been asking for a particular activity

24 and now you're going to get it but this is

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1 what it's going to cost.

2 So if you could talk a little bit

3 about that.

4 MR. COHEN: Assemblymember, that's an

5 excellent question. Thank you.

6 "With input from students" is an

7 interesting way to put that. Generally,

8 there is a student on such committees that

9 determine new fees, increases in fees -- I

10 hate to use the word "token," but I can

11 assure you there is not a majority population

12 on these committees of students.

13 It's interesting that you brought this

14 issue up just today. At our SUNY board

15 meeting, I for a moment stood on my soapbox

16 and argued against a new rule which is being

17 implemented, which is to raise a fee, a

18 broad-based fee, from $25 to $125 at our

19 four -- at the four university centers. What

20 that means, Assemblymember, is increasing

21 tuition an additional $100. So we got a $200

22 increase, they wanted a $300 increase, so

23 they raised a fee from $25 to $125.

24 We don't often know where these fees

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1 go, exactly. There's a health fee, which we

2 know goes to the health center; there's an

3 intercollegiate athletics fee, which we know

4 goes to fund athletics. Different campuses

5 have different fees. There is something of a

6 similar sort of structure across campuses,

7 but oftentimes the university excellence fee

8 of $600 at university centers, it's called a

9 broad-based comprehensive fee, and they

10 allocate that where they see fit.

11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: So students who

12 are going to the university centers, they

13 have larger fees than someone going to

14 Oneonta?

15 MR. COHEN: Absolutely. As you know,

16 we don't have differential -- per law, we

17 don't have differential tuition in New York

18 State, which is certainly a conversation we

19 could have at whatever time you'd like. We

20 don't have differential tuition in New York,

21 and so to ensure that the larger campuses

22 have the resources and can offer the quality

23 of programs that students have come to

24 expect, they assess such fees as additional

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1 means of revenue.

2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: What's been the

3 student experience in general from the

4 availability of health centers?

5 MR. COHEN: The availability of?

6 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Health centers.

7 You are at SUNY Albany -- most schools used

8 to have what they called the student

9 infirmary, now they have health centers. I

10 don't know if it's anything more than what

11 was the student infirmary, but perhaps you

12 can enlighten us.

13 MR. COHEN: That's a good question.

14 Different campuses -- again, depending

15 on the size of the campus, two-year schools,

16 community colleges versus comprehensives

17 versus four-year. University centers have

18 oftentimes very different services. At a

19 school like Upstate or Downstate, there are

20 medical schools, so they've got far more

21 resources than a school like, you know, a

22 smaller comprehensive may have.

23 Austin, do you want to talk a little

24 bit about the University at Albany and what

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1 they offer?

2 MR. OSTRO: Sure. So as a result of

3 the Affordable Care Act, there were some

4 changes to the fee policy. Students used to

5 have an option to buy insurance through the

6 university. Once the Affordable Care Act was

7 fully implemented, that was no longer

8 necessary, so students are now buying their

9 insurance either through the exchange or

10 getting it through Medicaid or independently.

11 I know that our campuses assess a

12 health fee to operate the health centers

13 which is independent of the expense that

14 students can be billed for the services

15 provided by health centers. I also know that

16 the tele-counseling service which we spoke

17 about in the beginning of the testimony is

18 usually independent of health centers. It

19 can be in a separate place on campus, and

20 there are coordinators paid by the campus

21 administration to operate on-site and

22 coordinate with the person, either Skyping or

23 FaceTime or videoconferencing in to provide

24 the service to students. So that's the

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1 extent of my knowledge about health centers.

2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Okay. Well, I

3 guess we'll be talking to the system a little

4 bit more about health centers and how they

5 are funded and how -- now, in order to go to

6 one, you're required -- if you're going to

7 SUNY, you're required to have health

8 insurance in some form, right?

9 MR. COHEN: Right.

10 MR. OSTRO: Yes.

11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Okay. We'll be

12 looking into that and how that works out and

13 whether they're actually billing your

14 insurance or how they're operating.

15 MR. COHEN: That's an interesting

16 question too, both for health centers as well

17 as for counseling centers, and whether or not

18 there's a difference between billing for

19 counseling centers, billing for health

20 centers. We are looking into that. We had a

21 number of meetings with -- Assemblyman

22 Pichardo was one of them, and others as well.

23 So we're looking into that as well.

24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Thank you.

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1 MR. COHEN: Let us know if you find

2 out first.

3 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Thank you very

4 much.

5 MR. OSTRO: Thank you.

6 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you. And as

7 a former member of the SUNY Fredonia Student

8 Association, I'm glad to see student leaders

9 here today, and I think that you are very

10 articulate. You have great issues that

11 you're talking about.

12 I'm very interested in the tele-health

13 and the counseling also. That's been sorely

14 needed at campuses all across the state, and

15 I'm glad to see that the program is

16 implemented. I think that it's something

17 that we need to look at as a Legislature and

18 build on that program, because there

19 certainly are needs for mental health

20 services all across the state but on the

21 campuses also.

22 So I just want to say thank you and

23 look forward to working with you in the

24 future.

385

1 MR. COHEN: Thank you, Senator.

2 MR. OSTRO: Thank you, Senator.

3 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Also I want to

4 join in thanking you for being here.

5 I don't know if you were here when I

6 asked a question of the SUNY chancellor about

7 the childcare centers and the big cut that is

8 proposed in the budget. I wonder if you have

9 had any experience, or is that something that

10 you might want to survey some of the campuses

11 to see whether -- what kind of needs

12 currently exist, whether there should be not

13 a decrease but actually an increase that

14 would help some students be able to go

15 forward with their education.

16 MR. COHEN: Madam Chair, thank you for

17 that question.

18 We have included childcare funding in

19 our legislative agenda for at least the last

20 three years, and I know I've spoken with

21 probably many of your offices about childcare

22 funding. It's critical. And as the

23 chancellor spoke about, the number of single

24 mothers, single parents in general who are

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1 enrolled in SUNY who rely on childcare

2 services on campuses -- particularly

3 community college campuses, but all across

4 the system -- is very high. We've got a ton

5 of data to show that faculty members, staff

6 members, and community members rely on these

7 childcare centers.

8 And similar to the opportunity

9 programs, it's not quite fair, and I think

10 some of you may agree that there are cuts in

11 the Executive Budget every year because

12 there's the assumption that things like

13 childcare funding and opportunity program

14 funding are just going to be restored by the

15 Legislature, causing you to use, you know,

16 whatever capital is allocated. And we would

17 like to see at least a hold-harmless sort of

18 system and then have the Legislature add

19 money back, rather than you being forced to

20 add it in.

21 But we've seen the direct impact of

22 insufficient funding for childcare centers.

23 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: So I would

24 appreciate it if you can email us some of

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1 that supporting data --

2 MR. COHEN: Sure.

3 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: -- that shows

4 the need on the various campuses. As you

5 said, community college campuses in

6 particular.

7 And thank you again for being here,

8 and look forward to continuing to work with

9 you through this year. Thank you.

10 MR. COHEN: Thank you very much.

11 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

12 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Our final group

13 for today, for the higher ed hearing, is the

14 CUNY Student Assembly. I believe there are

15 three individuals: Francesca Royal, vice

16 chair, Jasper Diaz, delegate, and -- okay,

17 there's a whole group of you. And we almost

18 lost one. And I have Wali Ullah, delegate.

19 If there are other people sitting at

20 the table, if you could just introduce

21 yourselves.

22 MS. ROYAL: Greetings, members of the

23 New York State Legislature. My name is

24 Francesca Royal. I am a junior at Hunter

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1 College at the City University of New York,

2 double majoring in economics and public

3 policy, with a concentration in education

4 policy. I am a proud member of the 19th

5 Assembly District, represented by

6 Assemblymember Edward Ra, and the 5th Senate

7 District, represented by Senator Carl

8 Marcellino.

9 I have the privilege of serving as the

10 vice Chair for fiscal affairs for the City

11 University of New York University Student

12 Senate, also known as CUNY USS.

13 USS is the elected student governance

14 organization responsible for representing the

15 interests of the 500,000 students that attend

16 CUNY. We are charged with preserving the

17 accessibility, affordability, and excellence

18 in higher education.

19 On behalf of USS, we thank you for

20 providing us this opportunity to share the

21 student experience. We are here today to

22 articulate the needs and concerns affecting

23 CUNY students, and how initiatives outlined

24 in Governor Andrew Cuomo's Executive Budget

389

1 proposal for fiscal year 2019 directly impact

2 the accessibility, affordability, and

3 excellence in higher education at campuses in

4 CUNY system.

5 I will begin by providing an update on

6 the state of student affairs across our

7 system. At the end of my testimony, I will

8 share USS's recommendations that will offer

9 you ways to address the issues. Then my

10 colleagues will share the experience of

11 students at community colleges and at senior

12 colleges.

13 We hope these testimonies will inspire

14 you to take immediate action to ensure CUNY

15 remains an engine of social mobility to

16 achieve the American dream in the land of

17 opportunity.

18 In 2017, Governor Cuomo took steps to

19 advance the conversation of improving higher

20 education when the Governor proposed a plan

21 that would make CUNY and SUNY tuition-free

22 for middle class families. In addition, the

23 State Legislature restored and expanded

24 support for opportunity programs and

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1 services. We were excited about the

2 initiatives that would make CUNY more

3 affordable and accessible.

4 However, it was disheartening to learn

5 that there would be a $200 increase in

6 tuition for students at senior colleges, that

7 the maintenance of effort bill would be

8 vetoed by the Governor, and part-time

9 scholarships for community college students

10 would not be made available on time. These

11 issues increase student debt, hinder student

12 success, and impact the quality of services

13 provided by CUNY faculty and staff due to the

14 lack of funding to support students' needs.

15 Although CUNY is considered one of the

16 most affordable universities in the country,

17 students still face barriers which hinder

18 student success and stifle social mobility.

19 The cost of living in New York City is

20 expensive. There aren't enough healthy and

21 affordable food options, and transportation

22 is costly, unreliable, and inadequate.

23 College students should not face shelter and

24 food insecurities which also lead to health

391

1 issues.

2 This legislative session, Governor

3 Cuomo is committed to expanding food pantry

4 services to all CUNY campuses to address food

5 insecurities. We are excited that CUNY has

6 been at the forefront of this educational

7 initiative by providing food pantries and

8 food vouchers at various colleges for several

9 years. This additional support will help

10 CUNY serve more students.

11 Students, however, are frustrated

12 about continuous increases in tuition. We

13 are looking forward to the expansion of the

14 Excelsior Scholarship and implementation of

15 the part-time scholarship for community

16 college students. During this session we

17 would like to participate in discussions to

18 improve the Excelsior Scholarship and other

19 financial aid programs.

20 We are disappointed with the

21 performance of the federal government, which

22 has led to a government shutdown. We cannot

23 depend on the federal government, as the

24 state of our union is under attack. We need

392

1 the State of New York to act swiftly to

2 protect our democracy and members of

3 immigrant communities and enact the state

4 DREAM Act. We need leadership in the state

5 now more than ever.

6 The University Student Senate is eager

7 to work with members of the Legislature and

8 the Governor’s office to improve the quality

9 of life for all New Yorkers. On behalf of

10 the 500,000 CUNY students, USS requests that

11 the New York State Legislature take the

12 following actions to restore and enhance the

13 accessibility, affordability, and excellence

14 in higher education at the greatest urban

15 university in the world.

16 Number one, reject the proposed

17 $200 tuition increase and provide

18 $31.3 million in support to a tuition freeze

19 for the 2018-2019 academic year.

20 Number two, restore funding to support

21 opportunity programs and services to ensure

22 CUNY remains diverse and fully inclusive.

23 Number three, pass the New York State

24 DREAM Act.

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1 Number four, provide the necessary

2 funding to support capital projects to ensure

3 CUNY facilities are hospitable.

4 Number five, adopt an enhanced

5 maintenance of effort to adequately fund

6 CUNY’s operating budget.

7 Thank you for your time and

8 consideration.

9 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.

10 Next?

11 MR. DIAZ: Greetings, members of the

12 New York State Legislature. My name is

13 Jasper Diaz, and I have the privilege of

14 serving as Baruch College's University

15 Student Senator and delegate to the City

16 University of New York University Student

17 Senate, CUNY USS.

18 I am a proud resident of the 72nd

19 State Assembly District, represented by State

20 Assemblymember Carmen de la Rosa, and the

21 31st State Senate District, currently

22 represented by State Senator Marisol

23 Alcantara.

24 I am pursuing a bachelor's of science

394

1 in public affairs at Baruch College's Marxe

2 School of Public and International Affairs,

3 with a minor in political science and

4 certificate in survey research. I have

5 aspirations of attending graduate school and

6 one day pursuing a career in public service

7 to help address the needs of members in my

8 community.

9 My experience at Baruch College has

10 been rewarding yet challenging, due to the

11 lack of an enhanced maintenance of effort

12 also known as MOE. This has negatively

13 impacted the quality of services at senior

14 colleges. Buildings and classrooms are

15 overcrowded, and there aren't enough faculty

16 and staff members available to address

17 student needs. The quality of our

18 educational experience has diminished because

19 our professors are overworked, teaching

20 several courses within highly populated

21 classes. The student service lines are long.

22 Students can spend hours waiting to see an

23 academic advisor, career counselor, financial

24 aid specialist or tutor.

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1 Furthermore, the continuous trend of

2 tuition increases has put our students under

3 stress. Tuition has increased by at least

4 $250 annually in the last seven out of eight

5 years. We have made tremendous sacrifices to

6 complete our studies, and students deserve at

7 least a two-year break.

8 We are very thankful for the Excelsior

9 Scholarship. We still need aid to cover book

10 expenses. We still need aid to cover living

11 expenses. We still need aid to cover

12 transportation expenses. It would be truly

13 wonderful if we were able to get a

14 reduced-fare MetroCard to ensure that

15 students can get to classes throughout the

16 semester. Our students are not able to

17 adequately use the college library and labs

18 because students cannot afford to come to

19 campus on days they don't have classes.

20 In addition, food insecurity is a

21 crisis that is affecting students as well.

22 Over the past several years, CUNY has begun

23 to address this issue at community colleges.

24 However, there aren't enough resources to

396

1 support the expansion at all CUNY senior

2 colleges.

3 We thank Governor Andrew Cuomo for

4 addressing the growing and rampant issue of

5 food insecurity on college campuses by

6 mandating that every public college in

7 New York State establishes a food pantry. We

8 would especially like to thank the New York

9 State Legislature for fulfilling capital

10 budget allocations for the fiscal year

11 2017-2018, finally initiating the first

12 five-year phase of bringing Baruch College's

13 1929-era Lawrence and Eris Field Building at

14 I7 Lexington Avenue into the 21st century.

15 We must make sure CUNY has state-of-the-art

16 facilities to offer students an environment

17 in which they can learn.

18 CUNY senior colleges need more support

19 to assist students in earning a college

20 degree. The University Student Senate is

21 eager to work with members of the Legislature

22 and the Governor's office to improve the

23 quality of affordable public higher education

24 for all New Yorkers.

397

1 Thank you for your time and

2 consideration.

3 MR. ULLAH: Greetings to all members

4 of the New York State Legislature. My name

5 is Wali Ullah, and I am a student at Bronx

6 Community College at the City University of

7 New York, majoring in political science. I

8 am hoping to transfer to the City College of

9 New York to pursue a bachelor's in political

10 science and economics, with hopes of pursuing

11 a career in grassroots organizing and public

12 service.

13 I am a proud resident of the 80th

14 State Assembly District, which currently does

15 not have an elected representative, and the

16 34th State Senate District, which is

17 currently represented by Senator Jeffrey

18 Klein.

19 I have the privilege of serving as the

20 Bronx Community College delegate in the

21 University Student Senate, as well as the

22 executive officer of legal and legislative

23 Affairs of the Student Government Association

24 at Bronx Community College.

398

1 I would like to extend the warmest of

2 gratitudes to CUNY for providing the

3 opportunity for me to serve in student

4 government, the students who elected me as

5 their representative, and the New York State

6 Legislature for allowing me to testify today.

7 In my testimony, I will share my

8 experience and the experience of other

9 students at Bronx Community College, also

10 known as BCC.

11 As we all know, community colleges

12 play a vital role in our economy. Community

13 college is the platform which offers workers,

14 parents, the younger, older and first

15 generation students access to higher

16 education. However, society categorizes some

17 of these students as non-traditional.

18 However, it is this very same demographic of

19 students that is so common in CUNY. Due to

20 the community college 24/7 course schedule,

21 students have the option to attend college in

22 early mornings, late nights, weekends, and

23 online while fulfilling other

24 responsibilities. Students prefer to attend

399

1 community colleges because the tuition rate

2 is much lower than four-year colleges, and

3 community colleges have a more flexible

4 course schedule.

5 I began my journey at BCC as a

6 part-time student. I have not been able to

7 enroll full-time due to a lack of financial

8 resources and other external obligations. I

9 receive no financial aid, as my parents are

10 undocumented and I have had difficulty paying

11 for -- they've had difficulty paying taxes in

12 the past due to their immigration status. I

13 do not work, either, as many of the job

14 opportunities I have sought thus far require

15 a higher level of experience.

16 My story is that of many community

17 college students, as nearly 40 percent of all

18 CUNY community college students are part-time

19 students, according to the CUNY Office of

20 Institutional Research. Most students that

21 attend part-time would love to take more

22 classes. However, there isn't enough

23 financial aid for students that attend

24 part-time.

400

1 In addition, due to a lack of funding

2 for on-campus childcare services, students

3 are forced to work more hours to cover the

4 costs for child care services off campus.

5 I would like to thank Governor Cuomo

6 for his efforts to make BCC more accessible

7 and affordable. As in 2017, Governor Cuomo

8 created a part-time scholarship to provide

9 aid for students enrolled at CUNY community

10 colleges. Students were excited to learn

11 about this new level of support that would

12 help them earn their degree. However, we

13 were unable to apply because the application

14 was not available in the fall. This

15 prevented some students from enrolling in the

16 fall 2017 and spring 2018 semesters.

17 The Excelsior Scholarship is great for

18 students who have the ability to enroll

19 full-time. However, we need support to help

20 part-time students.

21 Next, I would like to talk about the

22 Accelerated Studies in Associate Programs,

23 otherwise known as ASAP. ASAP is a program

24 available in every CUNY community college

401

1 which provides students resources such as

2 MetroCards, book vouchers, and smaller class

3 sizes to better meet student needs. The ASAP

4 model has received praise nationwide, as it

5 has doubled three-year graduation rates.

6 Hence, community college students are

7 requesting that the ASAP model be expanded to

8 all CUNY senior colleges, to ensure current

9 ASAP students have a seamless transition when

10 they transfer to earn their bachelor's

11 degree.

12 We thank CUNY for leading the effort

13 to address food insecurity by offering food

14 pantries at community colleges, and we thank

15 the Governor for wanting to expand this

16 program. We appreciate all the support that

17 we have received from the Legislature.

18 However, despite the apparent strides that we

19 have recently made in the advancement of

20 higher education in State of New York, there

21 is still much ground that remains to be

22 covered. We must not forget about the needs

23 of the diverse community we serve, especially

24 in our community colleges.

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1 Thank you for your time and

2 consideration.

3 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

4 MS. ROYAL: Thank you, and we can take

5 any questions now.

6 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Assemblyman

7 Pichardo.

8 ASSEMBLYMAN PICHARDO: Thank you,

9 Madam Chair. I will be brief.

10 As the proud representative of Bronx

11 Community College in the 86th Assembly

12 District, thank you so much for your time and

13 your leadership on this issue.

14 I couldn't agree with you more. I

15 think Excelsior was a step in the right

16 direction, but it has to consider that not

17 all students can attend college full-time and

18 have other obligations, either familial or

19 professional or otherwise, and we need to

20 make sure that we do a better job of

21 expanding opportunities for students and

22 making it cheaper for all students to attend

23 college.

24 So I appreciate your testimony this

403

1 afternoon, and thank you for your leadership

2 on this issue.

3 MR. ULLAH: Thank you, Assemblyman

4 Pichardo.

5 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Let me say that

6 I very much appreciated that you identified

7 five concrete things in your testimony. So

8 to some extent, that undermines any questions

9 we might -- because you actually did, ahead

10 of time, identify what it is you're asking us

11 to do.

12 MS. ROYAL: Thank you.

13 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK: Thank you.

14 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Senator Savino.

15 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you. I want to

16 thank all of you for coming and presenting

17 your testimony, and the SUNY students as well

18 before.

19 You all mentioned the issue of food

20 insecurity, and I'm just surprised how -- I

21 guess I shouldn't be -- but how prevalent it

22 seems to be.

23 But since CUNY does have the one-stop

24 program -- what's it called?

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1 MR. ULLAH: It's called Single Stop.

2 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you, Single

3 Stop.

4 Have you had any experience with how

5 well it works? How do students encounter it?

6 And how successful are they at actually

7 connecting students with potential sources of

8 aid they would be entitled to, do you know?

9 MR. ULLAH: So as far as I know, I am

10 not a recipient of aid of Single Stop,

11 although I have been to their office numerous

12 times. They have a food pantry, they provide

13 tax resources for students who are looking to

14 file their taxes, there is generally like --

15 if you make more than $50,000, then you are

16 ineligible for, you know, tax aid from --

17 they essentially help you file your taxes.

18 Currently, the Single Stop chapter at

19 my college is organizing a winter clothing

20 drive, pop-up drive, which is around January

21 30th and January 31st. So essentially they

22 do their best to help students that are in

23 need and -- you know, I just gave a couple of

24 examples of resources that you find.

405

1 SENATOR SAVINO: To the best of your

2 knowledge, does it require students to go in

3 search of Single Stop, or are they connected

4 at the point of enrollment that they might be

5 benefited by visiting the Single Stop?

6 And if you don't know the answer,

7 that's fine. I'm just trying to figure out

8 how well it works, how it could be replicated

9 in other colleges, whether they be public or

10 non-public colleges, and the best way to make

11 sure that students become aware that there's

12 possible benefits that they might be entitled

13 to. Again, if you don't know the answer,

14 that's fine.

15 MS. ROYAL: I personally don't know

16 the answer, I'm sorry. But we would be happy

17 to follow up with you with an email with a

18 more detailed response.

19 SENATOR SAVINO: Great. Thank you.

20 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Again, thank

21 you all for being here and spending the day

22 with us.

23 This concludes the Higher Education

24 hearing for the joint budget committees. And

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1 for those listening and the members of the

2 Ways and Means Committee who are here, we'll

3 see you again tomorrow morning at 9:30 for

4 Housing.

5 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: We get to do it all

6 over again tomorrow.

7 But I want to thank the student

8 leaders for being here today. It shows a lot

9 of initiative. We're very proud of your

10 accomplishments, and I know that you all have

11 bright futures. So thank you.

12 MS. ROYAL: Thank you very much.

13 MR. ULLAH: Thank you so much.

14 MR. DIAZ: Thank you.

15 (Whereupon, the budget hearing concluded

16 at 4:35 p.m.)

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