Joint Legislative Public Hearing on 2016-2017 Executive Budget Proposal: Topic "Higher Education" - Testimonies


Hearing Event Notice:

Archived Video:

Event Transcript:


 2  ----------------------------------------------------


 4             In the Matter of the
          2016-2017 EXECUTIVE BUDGET ON
 5               HIGHER EDUCATION
 6  ----------------------------------------------------

 7                           Hearing Room B
                             Legislative Office Building
 8                           Albany, New York
 9                           February 8, 2016
                             12:40 p.m.


12           Senator Catharine M. Young 
             Chair, Senate Finance Committee
             Assemblyman Herman D. Farrell, Jr.
14           Chair, Assembly Ways & Means Committee

16           Senator Liz Krueger 
             Senate Finance Committee (RM)
             Assemblyman Robert Oaks
18           Assembly Ways & Means Committee (RM)
19           Assemblywoman Deborah J. Glick
             Chair, Assembly Higher Education Committee 
             Senator Kenneth P. LaValle
21           Chair, Senate Higher Education Committee
22           Assemblyman William Colton
23           Senator Toby Ann Stavisky
24           Assemblywoman Ellen Jaffee


 1  2016-2017 Executive Budget
    Higher Education 
 2  2-8-16
 3  PRESENT:  (Continued)
 4           Assemblyman Peter A. Lawrence
 5           Assemblywoman Shelley Mayer
 6           Assemblywoman Nicole Malliotakis
 7           Assemblywoman Jo Anne Simon 
 8           Assemblyman Chad A. Lupinacci
 9           Assemblywoman Barbara S. Lifton
10           Assemblywoman Patricia Fahy
11           Senator Simcha Felder
12           Assemblywoman Rebecca Seawright
13           Assemblyman David Weprin
14           Senator Diane Savino
15           Assemblyman Joseph S. Saladino
16           Assemblyman Edward Ra
17           Assemblyman Al Stirpe
18           Assemblywoman Pamela Harris







 1  2016-2017 Executive Budget
    Higher Education
 2  2-8-16
 3                   LIST OF SPEAKERS
 4                                    STATEMENT   QUESTIONS
 5  Nancy L. Zimpher 
 6  State University of New York           7         38
    Anne M. Kress
 7  President
    Monroe Community College              18         38
 8  Robert Jones
 9  University at Albany                  29         39
    Kristin Esterberg
10  President
    SUNY Potsdam                          24         46
11  Tom Mastro
    SUNY Student Assembly                 34         53
    James Milliken 
13  Chancellor 
    City University of New York          113        131
    MaryEllen Elia 
15  Commissioner
    NYS Education Department             184        191              
    Elsa M. Magee
17  Acting President 
    NYS Higher Education
18   Services Corporation                239        243
19  Andrew Pallotta
    Executive Vice President 
20  NYSUT                                258        
21  Jamie Dangler
    Vice President
22  United University Professions        266        289
23  Barbara Bowen
24  PSC/CUNY                             276        295


 1  2016-2017 Executive Budget
    Higher Education
 2  2-8-16
 3                   LIST OF SPEAKERS, Cont. 
 4                                    STATEMENT   QUESTIONS
 5  Laura L. Anglin
 6  Commission on Independent
     Colleges and Universities           307         318
    Tiffany Brown 
 8  Higher Education Coordinator
    NYPIRG                               332
    Michael A. Molina
10  President
    Association for Program
11   Administrators of CSTEP
     and STEP                            338
    Dr. Jason Brown
13  Vice President 
    NYS Chiropractic Association         342         348
    Virginia Donohue
15  Executive Director
    On Point for College                 349         355
    Wanda Williams
17  Director of Legislation
    DC 37                                363
    Thomas Mastro 
19  President                            367
    Melissa Kathan 
20  Vice President                       371
    Nicholas Simons
21  Dir., Legislative Affairs            369
    Marc Cohen
22  Chief of Staff                       374
    SUNY Student Assembly                


 1                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Good morning.

 2                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:   Good morning.  

 3                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Good morning.

 4                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Good.  We're still 

 5          alive; football lives.  Today we begin the 

 6          12th in the series of hearings conducted by 

 7          the joint fiscal committees of the 

 8          Legislature regarding the Governor's proposed 

 9          budget for fiscal year 2016-2017.  The 

10          hearings are conducted pursuant to Article 7, 

11          Section 3 of the Constitution, and Article 2, 

12          Sections 31 and 32A of the Legislative Law.

13                 Today the Assembly Ways and Means 

14          Committee and the Senate Finance Committee 

15          will hear testimony concerning the budget 

16          proposal for higher education.  

17                 I will now introduce some of the 

18          members of the Assembly, and Senator Young, 

19          chair of the Senate Finance Committee, will 

20          introduce members from the Senate.  

21                 We've been joined by Assemblywoman 

22          Deborah Glick, chair; Assemblyman Bill 

23          Colton; Assemblywoman Ellen Jaffee; 

24          Assemblywoman Rebecca Seawright; 


 1          Assemblywoman Shelley Mayer; Assemblywoman 

 2          Barbara Lifton; Assemblyman Charles Lavine; 

 3          Assemblywoman Patricia Fahy; Assemblyman 

 4          David Weprin; and Assemblywoman Jo Anne 

 5          Simon.  

 6                 And Mr. Oaks?  

 7                 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS:  Yes, we've also 

 8          been joined by Assemblyman Lupinacci, 

 9          Assemblyman Ra, and Assemblyman Lawrence.

10                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.  

11                 Senator?  

12                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you, and good 

13          morning.  And welcome to our distinguished 

14          guests.  

15                 I'm Senator Catharine Young, and I'm 

16          chair of the Senate Finance Committee.  And 

17          I've been joined by my colleagues Senator Liz 

18          Krueger, who is ranking member on the Finance 

19          Committee; Senator Ken LaValle, who is chair 

20          of the Senate Higher Education Committee; 

21          Senator Toby Stavisky, who is ranking member 

22          on the Higher Education Committee; and also 

23          Senator Simcha Felder.

24                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Before introducing 


 1          the first witness, I would like to remind all 

 2          of the witnesses testifying today to keep 

 3          your statements within your allotted time 

 4          limit so that everyone can afford the 

 5          opportunity to speak.  

 6                 And our members, the chairs of the 

 7          committees involved today will get 10 minutes 

 8          in their calls; everyone else will get five 

 9          minutes.  We'd like to keep it going as 

10          tightly, as quickly -- I'd like not to break 

11          the record of going to 9 o'clock at night.

12                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:   That actually is 

13          not the record, Mr. Chairman.  So we would 

14          like to avoid the record.

15                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  That's right.  All 

16          right.  State University Chancellor Nancy L.  

17          Zimpher.  I messed that up.

18                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  You got it just 

19          right.  

20                 Good afternoon, everybody.  I'm Nancy 

21          Zimpher, and I'm chancellor of the State 

22          University of New York.  

23                 I want to thank Chairpersons Young, 

24          Farrell, LaValle and Glick, members of the 


 1          Assembly and the Senate, the legislative 

 2          staff, for allowing us this opportunity to 

 3          share our perspective on the Executive 

 4          Budget.  

 5                 I'm pleased to be joined today by 

 6          President Robert Jones, to my left, 

 7          University at Albany; President Kristin 

 8          Esterberg of SUNY Potsdam; and once again, 

 9          I'm happy to be joined by President Anne 

10          Kress, of Monroe Community College.  And it's 

11          also my honor today to be joined by Tom 

12          Mastro, who is president of our statewide 

13          Student Assembly.  He is also a SUNY trustee 

14          and a student at Binghamton University.

15                 I'd also like to take this opportunity 

16          to acknowledge the other SUNY campus 

17          presidents who are with us today, thank them 

18          for their time and their continued devotion 

19          to the SUNY system.  And I want to thank the 

20          SUNY Board of Trustees Chairman H. Carl 

21          McCall and our entire board for their 

22          leadership and support.

23                 I believe that while requesting more 

24          support for the State University, I need to 


 1          make the value proposition crystal-clear.  So 

 2          I want to take this opportunity to tell you 

 3          about the accomplishments and our goals, to 

 4          demonstrate the level of performance and 

 5          accountability we are committed to on behalf 

 6          of our students.

 7                 As I shared with you four years ago, 

 8          we've coined a term, an organizational theory  

 9          that derives from our collective work at 

10          SUNY, and we say this word "systemness."  For 

11          SUNY it means leveraging all of our campuses' 

12          strengths and acting as one formidable force 

13          armed with an ambitious set of goals to 

14          create not just a stronger public university 

15          system but also a better way of life for all 

16          New York.  

17                 And when we say a better way of life, 

18          we mean providing access to a high-quality, 

19          affordable education to every single 

20          New Yorker who wants one, regardless of age, 

21          gender, race, religion, veteran status, or 

22          any obstacle that might keep them from a 

23          college education.

24                 It means supporting students through 


 1          on-time completion.  Last year I shared with 

 2          you SUNY's ambitious completion agenda to 

 3          increase the number of degrees granted 

 4          annually from 93,000 to 150,000 by 2020.  

 5          Since then, our provost, Alex Cartwright, 

 6          sitting in the next row, did the math to 

 7          figure out how we can get there.  We still 

 8          optimize current enrollment by asking our 

 9          institutions to strive for "best in sector" 

10          retention and graduation rates, and 

11          increasing our workforce-ready credentialing.  

12          And we will strategically increase enrollment 

13          to approach our historic maximums and to 

14          continue to promote online education through 

15          Open SUNY.

16                 But we don't stop at the completion 

17          agenda at SUNY, we also talk about success -- 

18          where students go, what they do after they 

19          graduate, whether embarking on a career or 

20          advanced degree work.  That is why we are 

21          committed to ensuring applied learning 

22          opportunities for every student before they 

23          graduate, to help put them on a path to a 

24          long-term successful career.


 1                 It has been seven years since I came 

 2          to SUNY, and only four years since we started 

 3          talking about systemness.  Today I am proud 

 4          to report that we are working together better 

 5          and doing more for our students than ever 

 6          before.  Let me share a few examples.  

 7                 First, seamless transfer.  Of our 

 8          460,000 students, about 30,000 transfer 

 9          between our campuses every year.  In fact, 

10          44 percent of our baccalaureate graduates 

11          started at one of our community colleges.  We 

12          now have in place a transfer policy that 

13          guarantees that when students transfer, they 

14          don't lose time, they don't lose credit or a 

15          single hard-earned dollar of what they've 

16          invested.  They are positioned and empowered 

17          better than ever before to complete their 

18          degree on time.  

19                 We also created and launched Open 

20          SUNY, the world's largest consortium for 

21          online learning, with 230,000 students 

22          enrolled in 472 degree programs and 20,000 

23          course sections, Open SUNY is speeding time 

24          to degree and driving access like never 


 1          before.  

 2                 In 2012, we launched what has become 

 3          the nation's most proactive, comprehensive 

 4          financial literacy tool.  Since we brand 

 5          everything, we called this SUNY Smart Track.  

 6          The program includes financial literacy 

 7          resources and tools, student engagement 

 8          activities for at-risk student borrowers, and 

 9          SUNY-wide default prevention and financial 

10          literacy task forces which monitor the 

11          success of the program and look for ways to 

12          continuously improve it.  

13                 Thanks to our affordability and our 

14          work through Smart Track, SUNY institutions 

15          across all sectors see lower student loan 

16          default rates than their national 

17          counterparts.  

18                 And in 2011, we committed to sharing 

19          services in our system and our regions to 

20          save money and then take that savings and put 

21          it right back to support our students.  

22          Shared services is truly a matter of and a 

23          measure of operational excellence.  Within 

24          just a few years of sharing services in human 


 1          resources, IT and procurement, we've exceeded 

 2          our $100 million run rate and have created an 

 3          operational excellence team to ensure that we 

 4          continue to save.

 5                 Last year we were honored to be joined 

 6          by Assemblyman Crespo when we announced our 

 7          new systemwide diversity, equity and 

 8          inclusion policy.  We have welcomed his input 

 9          and are so appreciate of his leadership in 

10          this area, and his patience with us as we 

11          strive to be the most inclusive university in 

12          the country.  Our new policies are a good 

13          start, but we know we have a lot of work to 

14          do to ensure our students reflect the 

15          diversity of our state.

16                 Our Board of Trustees adopted the 

17          policy in September, which calls for each 

18          campus, and our system headquarters, to put 

19          in place this year a diversity and inclusion 

20          plan that addresses recruitment, retention, 

21          campus climate and more.  Central to the 

22          plans, every campus will have a chief 

23          diversity officer, offer cultural 

24          competency training, and report annually on 


 1          their progress, which will be tied to campus 

 2          leadership evaluation.

 3                 So this raises the question, with all 

 4          of these initiatives, some with goals met and 

 5          some ongoing, how do we know what we're doing 

 6          is actually working?  So SUNY is taking 

 7          bolder steps than ever to be transparent 

 8          about our performance at every level.  We 

 9          created the SUNY Excels performance system.  

10          Through two years of debate, we settled on 17 

11          metrics across access, completion, success, 

12          inquiry, and engagement.  This helps us see 

13          where we need to improve and target our 

14          resources to get the outcomes we want and 

15          New York State needs.  

16                 As part of this process, last year we 

17          put it to our campuses to create 

18          individualized performance improvement plans, 

19          and they set very ambitious goals.  Our 

20          presidents led campus teams that delivered 

21          great plans with intentions to establish new 

22          degree programs in high-demand areas, to grow 

23          enrollment and improve retention, and to 

24          expand student services.  And in our 


 1          commitment to transparency, every single one 

 2          of these plans is available to view in full 

 3          online.

 4                 I sit here today confident that none 

 5          of this could have happened without your 

 6          leadership and support.  And we are grateful 

 7          that the Executive Budget provides a good 

 8          start as we look ahead to what's next for 

 9          SUNY.

10                 Regarding the Governor's budget, we 

11          are today asking for your support of ongoing 

12          and new programs included in his proposal, to 

13          restore funding levels that were cut in 

14          critical program areas, and to invest in the 

15          State University by enhancing funding levels.  

16                 Let me begin with support for items in 

17          the Executive Budget:  $15 million for a 

18          Clean Energy Workforce Opportunity Program, 

19          $3 million for the Apprenticeship Program, 

20          and an additional $1 million for community 

21          college community schools.  

22                 In addition, we wanted to share some 

23          details on how we used last year's 

24          $18 million Investment Fund and why it is so 


 1          important to renew.  We maximized the state's 

 2          $18 million investment by pooling other state 

 3          funding sources and limited existing 

 4          resources to create a $100 million expanded 

 5          Investment and Performance Fund.  These 

 6          presidents can attest we issued our request 

 7          for proposals to each of the campuses to 

 8          apply for opportunities to scale or replicate 

 9          or pilot innovative programs and initiatives.  

10          Given the limited funding, we set up a 

11          competitive process to invest only in what we 

12          know works to drive student success.

13                 We received over 200 proposals from 

14          nearly every SUNY institution.  Last month, 

15          we announced the first $18 million of these 

16          awards, 32 proposals directly involving 

17          22 state-operated SUNY campuses and 

18          collaborations with nine community colleges.  

19          The funded projects included implementing 

20          early alert systems, enhancing advising, 

21          stronger K-12 to college bridges, math 

22          competency programs, new opportunities for 

23          applied learning, and much, much more.

24                 We anticipate great things to come 


 1          from our campuses on these projects, and we 

 2          know from the proposals we were not able to 

 3          fund that there is much more that we can do 

 4          with an additional $18 million this year.  

 5                 We also ask that you consider 

 6          expanding eligibility for the Investment and 

 7          Performance Fund to our community colleges so 

 8          that they can apply directly and benefit from 

 9          this innovative approach.

10                 Under restoration, as with every year, 

11          we ask that you restore the legislatively 

12          added funding, a total of $3.6 million for 

13          childcare, the Graduate Achievement Placement 

14          or GAP program, and the Career Center 

15          programs; $18.6 million for our hospitals; 

16          and other areas, including our Small Business 

17          Development Centers, the Graduate Diversity 

18          Program, and the Cornell Cooperative 

19          Extension and Veterinary College.

20                 And under the category of 

21          enhancements, we have some additional asks 

22          that we are referring to as an enhancement of 

23          our support and restoration requests.  Every 

24          year we talk about the need for increased 


 1          base aid for our community colleges and 

 2          operating support for our state-operated 

 3          campuses.  This year we are requesting 

 4          $37.3 million, or an additional $285 per 

 5          full-time student, for our community 

 6          colleges.  

 7                 I often hear that base aid isn't a 

 8          very compelling ask, so I'm glad that 

 9          President Kress is here to share Monroe 

10          Community College's perspective as well as 

11          some examples of the difference an increase 

12          in support can make to our community college 

13          students and faculty.  

14                 President Kress.

15                 PRESIDENT KRESS:  Thank you, 

16          Chancellor Zimpher.

17                 I'm Anne Kress, president of Monroe 

18          Community College, and I am honored to be 

19          here today.  Thank you for this opportunity 

20          to represent SUNY's 30 community colleges. 

21                 We bring you a simple and very 

22          straightforward request this year.  We ask 

23          that you increase our base aid funding by 

24          $285 per full-time equivalent student.  


 1                 Our students come to our community 

 2          colleges for any number of reasons, but at 

 3          the heart of it, each one of them comes to 

 4          the community college seeking a pathway to 

 5          prosperity.  But because our colleges' 

 6          funding from New York State has not kept pace 

 7          with our costs, increasingly we struggle to 

 8          fulfill the promise that we hold out to our 

 9          students.  

10                 These are students like Cory.  Cory 

11          came to Jefferson Community College straight 

12          from the armed services, and he was 

13          struggling with sobriety.  And he was also 

14          struggling with the ability to care for his 

15          family.  He didn't know where he would find a 

16          post-military career with the difficulties 

17          that he presented, but he found a home at 

18          Jefferson Community College.  And because of 

19          the outstanding faculty and services at 

20          Jefferson, Cory is now on his way to a degree 

21          in human services, he is on his way to 

22          university transfer, and he is on his way to 

23          a career as a counselor.  

24                 But 88 percent, 88 percent of 


 1          Jefferson's budget goes to the costs 

 2          associated with those outstanding faculty and 

 3          staff, and so serving motivated but 

 4          challenged students like Cory is harder every 

 5          single day.  What I want you to know is that 

 6          when New York State stands with SUNY, 

 7          Jefferson Community College can stand with 

 8          students like Cory.  

 9                 We can also stand with students like 

10          Connie.  Connie started her career at FIT, 

11          and she was a nontraditional student.  And 

12          she had dreams of a degree in fashion 

13          business management, and she saw career 

14          opportunities there.  But with few resources 

15          of her own, she had to use the college's 

16          computer labs and software in order to 

17          complete her coursework.  And it was in that 

18          computer lab that one of the deans found her, 

19          crying inconsolably.  And what the dean 

20          learned was that Connie couldn't use the 

21          computers because they were so outdated, they 

22          couldn't run the software programs that she 

23          was required to use for her classes.  Much 

24          like the computer lab that surrounded her, 


 1          Connie's dreams were falling apart.  

 2                 And without access to much needed 

 3          technology, Connie and many of her fellow 

 4          students at FIT simply couldn't gain the 

 5          skill sets that would make them competitive 

 6          upon graduation.

 7                 What I want you to hear is that when 

 8          you stand with SUNY, you stand with students 

 9          like Connie and you make it possible for FIT 

10          to do so as well.  

11                 Patricio never thought that he would 

12          need a college degree.  He got a job right 

13          out of high school, he started a family -- 

14          but he soon found that he maybe didn't have 

15          the skill set to remain competitive, and he 

16          was downsized from his company in Rochester.  

17                 And then he heard in his community 

18          that MCC, my college, was offering a new 

19          accelerated precision machining program, and 

20          he thought, wow, in six months, I could get a 

21          college credential and I could find a job.  

22          And so he dedicated himself to that.  And now 

23          Patricio has not just a job, he has a career.  

24          And he also has motivation to ensure that his 


 1          two daughters follow him to MCC and go to 

 2          college themselves.  

 3                 We know at MCC that there are many 

 4          Patricios out there in our community.  We 

 5          know that Rochester has one of our state's 

 6          highest poverty levels.  We know that it has 

 7          one of the highest unemployment rates for 

 8          minority males in the State of New York.  But 

 9          we also know that without increased base aid, 

10          we can't afford to expand the programs in 

11          workforce development, a program that served 

12          Patricio so well.  On average, those programs 

13          cost 40 percent more than a traditional 

14          academic program.  These are high-tech 

15          programs.

16                 And know that when New York State 

17          stands with SUNY, you stand with Patricio and 

18          you make it possible for MCC to stand with 

19          him as well.  

20                 Every one of my colleagues could share 

21          similar stories.  Our community colleges 

22          increasingly lack the resources that they 

23          need to stand with our students.  Connecting 

24          underprepared, financially and emotionally 


 1          challenged students to opportunity is hard 

 2          and it is costly work.  Students in every 

 3          corner of our state are facing uncertain 

 4          pathways because our base aid has not kept 

 5          pace with our costs.  

 6                 So I ask the Legislature to stand with 

 7          SUNY.  We ask that you increase our base aid 

 8          by $285 per full-time equivalent student. 

 9          That will keep our colleges whole.  It will 

10          help us keep pace, if nothing else, with the 

11          rising cost of benefits that we give our 

12          valued employees and faculty.  We want to 

13          give our students the education they deserve.  

14          Help us stand with Cory, with Connie, with 

15          Patricio, with the tens of thousands of 

16          students who come to our institutions every 

17          single year.  If you do that, New York will 

18          stand strong.  

19                 Thank you so much for this opportunity 

20          to speak on behalf of our students and our 

21          colleges.  

22                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Thank you, 

23          President Kress.  

24                 For our 29 state-operated campuses, 


 1          we're grateful for the Executive Budget's 

 2          proposed direct support of $708 million.  We 

 3          ask for your partnership in enhancing this 

 4          investment.  We have not seen a significant 

 5          increase of operational support over the past 

 6          five years, which presents a growing 

 7          challenge as we face projected increases in 

 8          costs.  We are requesting enhanced support of 

 9          $72.7 million for the state-operated 

10          campuses, $61.9 million to support the 

11          incremental costs of collective bargaining 

12          salaries, and $10.8 million to offset the 

13          costs campuses incur in internally funded 

14          scholarships. 

15                 President Esterberg is going to offer 

16          some perspective on the importance of this 

17          operating support to Potsdam and our other 

18          state-operated campuses.

19                 PRESIDENT ESTERBERG:  Thank you, 

20          Chancellor Zimpher.

21                 Good afternoon.  My name is Kristin 

22          Esterberg, and I am the president of SUNY 

23          Potsdam.  Celebrating our bicentennial this 

24          year, we are the oldest campus in the SUNY 


 1          system and one of the 13 campuses in the 

 2          comprehensive sector.  

 3                 The comprehensive campuses provide 

 4          access to a rigorous four-year degree 

 5          experience to 90,000 students from working 

 6          families across New York State.  We are 

 7          typically the economic and cultural anchors 

 8          of our communities, and we are careful 

 9          stewards of the state's investment in us.  

10                 In Potsdam and Canton, SUNY campuses 

11          are the largest employers in our communities, 

12          along with the hospital.  SUNY Potsdam 

13          contributes over $375 million directly and 

14          indirectly to the region's economy, just as 

15          the other comprehensive campuses contribute 

16          to their regions.  

17                 From 2010 to 2014, the State of 

18          New York invested in a new performing arts 

19          center for SUNY Potsdam, one of three 

20          designated arts campuses in the SUNY system.  

21          Over that four-year period, the center 

22          brought over 300 jobs to the region -- an 

23          important boost to a region with the highest 

24          unemployment rate in New York, currently at 


 1          6 percent.  That facility has brought 

 2          cultural performances to thousands of 

 3          community members and schoolchildren, 

 4          enabling SUNY Potsdam to serve as the 

 5          cultural hub in one of the poorest counties 

 6          in New York State.  

 7                 We also match public investment with 

 8          private funding.  For example, through a 

 9          generous $1 million gift from an alumna, SUNY 

10          Potsdam created SUNYís first Center for 

11          Applied Learning in 2015.  A newly announced 

12          SUNY Performance Investment Fund grant of 

13          $750,000 to the center is enabling us to 

14          scale up, along with our partner, SUNY 

15          Oneonta, and serve as an incubator for best 

16          practices across the system.  The ultimate 

17          aim is to improve student retention and 

18          ensure that every student has the opportunity 

19          for a high-quality internship, a study abroad 

20          opportunity, service learning, or 

21          faculty-student research.  

22                 We strive to maintain efficiency and 

23          keep costs low.  Our campus saves 

24          approximately $180,000 each year through 


 1          shared services with SUNY Canton.  Yet we 

 2          need state support more than ever to serve an 

 3          increasingly diverse and economically 

 4          vulnerable student population.  

 5                 Approximately 17 percent of SUNY 

 6          Potsdam's students come from New York City; 

 7          another 32 come from the North Country, one 

 8          of the poorest regions in the state.  Nearly 

 9          40 percent of our 4,000 students receive Pell 

10          grants; almost half receive TAP awards.  In 

11          our freshman class, half had an estimated 

12          family contribution, according to their 

13          FAFSA, of between zero and $3,000.  Our 

14          campus provides nearly $2.8 million in 

15          financial assistance to meet their needs, 

16          including over $880,000 in privately raised 

17          scholarships and awards.  

18                 Continued state investment in our SUNY 

19          campuses is critical to meet the costs 

20          associated with negotiated salary increases.  

21          For Potsdam, the cost of unfunded negotiated 

22          salary increases is about $750,000 each year. 

23          Projected increases in the minimum wage will 

24          have substantial impact on our student 


 1          employment.  We are grateful for the state's 

 2          ongoing commitment to public higher 

 3          education, yet we know that increased 

 4          investment is critical for the continued 

 5          vitality of our students, our campuses, and 

 6          our regions.

 7                 Thank you.

 8                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Thanks, President 

 9          Esterberg.  

10                 Also we are asking for $15 million in 

11          additional support for our Educational 

12          Opportunity Program, which represents the 

13          total amount of requests for funding we got 

14          from our campuses for new EOP funds.  With 

15          the new funding last year, we increased 

16          availability of seats, helped offset more 

17          costs for students, and expanded summer 

18          bridge programs.  

19                 An increase in funding makes an 

20          extraordinary difference to the program.  

21          Last year SUNY received 30,000 applicants for 

22          2500 available EOP seats.  So at the 

23          University of Albany, which is one of the 

24          most successful EOP sites, I'm glad that 


 1          President Jones is here to talk about the 

 2          success of the program on your campus, and 

 3          the potential for the program systemwide if 

 4          more funds are available.

 5                 PRESIDENT JONES:  Thank you, 

 6          Chancellor.  And I want to thank the 

 7          committee chairs and members for the 

 8          opportunity to address you today on this 

 9          critically important topic.

10                 EOP currently operates on 43 of the 64 

11          SUNY campuses, including 14 community 

12          colleges, with two additional programs 

13          currently under development.  As you know, 

14          EOP students receive a range of services and 

15          academic support, but they also receive 

16          financial support to help with non-tuition 

17          costs of college.  Most incoming freshmen at 

18          four-year campuses also participate in a 

19          residential summer program that gives them 

20          comprehensive preparation for entering the 

21          college experience.

22                 I cannot overstate the importance of 

23          this program, which has been recognized as a 

24          national model.  As the chancellor mentioned, 


 1          University at Albany's EOP program has been 

 2          extremely successful.  We currently have 750 

 3          EOP students on our campus, and more than 

 4          5,000 alums across the nation and around the 

 5          world.

 6                 With the increased funding that you 

 7          included in last year's budget, we were able 

 8          to admit an additional 50 EOP students, for 

 9          an incoming class of around 200.  I want to 

10          thank you for that increase, and I can assure 

11          you that it was a very, very sound 

12          investment.

13                 At the University at Albany, EOP's 

14          first to second year retention rate is 

15          92 percent, compared to 81 percent for the 

16          overall student population.  And our 

17          sixth-year graduation rate for EOP students 

18          is 78 percent, compared to 68 percent 

19          overall.

20                 So you can see EOP is very, very 

21          effective -- so effective that we are in the 

22          process of replicating critical elements of 

23          the program in our university-wide student 

24          retention and completion initiatives.  And 


 1          the University at Albany's positive 

 2          experience with EOP is representative of the 

 3          success of the program across the entire SUNY 

 4          system.  

 5                 Because it has been so effective in 

 6          creating access and success for 

 7          underrepresented and underserved communities, 

 8          as a system we would like to expand the 

 9          benefits to even more campuses and more 

10          students.  There are several campuses that 

11          don't have EOP, but they've identified a 

12          large number of students who would benefit 

13          from this program.  Seven community colleges 

14          have requested funds to launch EOP.  And 

15          system administration has received requests 

16          to find innovative ways to expand the EOP 

17          program to enhance support and increase 

18          success rates among EOP students.

19                 So again, I am absolutely convinced of 

20          the efficacy of the EOP model, and I am 

21          convinced that an increased investment in 

22          this program will pay tremendous dividends to 

23          SUNY and across New York State.

24                 I would like to again thank all 


 1          members of the joint committee on behalf of 

 2          both SUNY and the University at Albany, and 

 3          we appreciate your consideration of these 

 4          requests.

 5                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Thank you, 

 6          President Jones.  

 7                 I want to move to close with a very 

 8          important request around NYSUNY 2020.  And to 

 9          do that, I must not mention at any length the 

10          $30 million in state match for our research 

11          programs and the enhancement of our capital 

12          budget.  It means I don't get to tell the 

13          story about when Chairman LaValle and 

14          Assemblymember Lifton visited our presidents 

15          at Empire State College, we had to relocate 

16          due to an electrical fire.  So there's a lot 

17          more I could say about capital, but I simply 

18          don't have time.  

19                 So I have shared a lot about SUNY's 

20          successes and goals and about our budget asks 

21          and the rationale behind them, but many of 

22          these investments will not be as impactful as 

23          they could be if we don't enact a critical 

24          piece of legislation.  In 2011, with your 


 1          help and support, we did what many thought 

 2          was impossible -- we instituted a stable, 

 3          predictable, fair tuition policy for our 

 4          state-operated campuses.  Thanks to NYSUNY 

 5          2020, for five years SUNY students have been 

 6          able to plan for tuition costs.  

 7                 Since the tuition plan began in 2011, 

 8          we have been able to hire 919 new faculty 

 9          members and approved over 350 new academic 

10          programs.  Today SUNY's resident tuition 

11          remains the most affordable in the Northeast 

12          and among the most affordable in the nation.  

13          SUNY tuition is less expensive than systems 

14          in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Massachusetts, 

15          Virginia, Ohio, California, and Texas.  These 

16          are the states with the best-rated public 

17          university systems in the country, and SUNY 

18          is undoubtedly among them, while being more 

19          affordable.

20                 And nearly 30 percent of the tuition 

21          revenues has been reinvested to cover the gap 

22          between tuition and the maximum TAP award, 

23          ensuring that the highest-need students will 

24          attend tuition-free.  


 1                 There are two core purposes of this 

 2          critical legislation.  One, to protect SUNY 

 3          students from unpredictable changes in 

 4          tuition; and two, to provide reliable funding 

 5          that SUNY can count on so it can provide the 

 6          world-class education New Yorkers deserve.

 7                 We are glad that the Governor included 

 8          the extension of rational tuition in the 

 9          Executive Budget, and to once again have the 

10          support of our students for the renewal of 

11          NYSUNY 2020.  And through our Student 

12          Assembly, who will testify later this 

13          afternoon, we thought it important to show 

14          you that when we say we have our students' 

15          support, we mean it.  

16                 President Tom Mastro.

17                 MR. MASTRO:  Thank you, Chancellor.  

18                 Good afternoon.  My name is Tom 

19          Mastro, and I have the distinct honor and 

20          privilege of representing the 465,000 

21          students of SUNY as president of the Student 

22          Assembly.  

23                 The Student Assembly is the single 

24          recognized voice for our students; 


 1          essentially, the SUNY-wide student 

 2          government.  In the same way all of you speak 

 3          for your constituents, I speak for the 

 4          students of SUNY.  Each of our 64 campuses 

 5          elect a certain number of delegates, 

 6          depending on their enrollment, who represent 

 7          them to the SUNY Student Assembly.  And 

 8          having been elected by my peers from across 

 9          the entire system, my testimony in support of 

10          the renewal of NYSUNY 2020 is being given not 

11          on my behalf, but on behalf of all of my 

12          peers.  

13                 And it's worth reminding everyone here 

14          that the outcome of this discussion and your 

15          vote affects me and my student colleagues 

16          here today more than anyone else in this 

17          room.  Some critics have attempted to paint 

18          the support as students standing in favor of 

19          tuition increases.  I am disappointed by this 

20          interpretation, as it grossly misrepresents 

21          our position.

22                 At the Student Assembly Spring 

23          Conference last year, a resolution was put 

24          forth supporting the renewal of a fair, 


 1          equitable and predictable tuition plan.  This 

 2          plan passed 59-4-1.  Let me repeat:  59-4-1, 

 3          a remarkable majority.  Even after five years 

 4          of tuition increases, SUNY students who were 

 5          elected by their peers voted overwhelmingly 

 6          to renew the plan.

 7                 Our student leaders spoke with a loud, 

 8          clear, and unified voice.  They said we 

 9          cannot afford to be left in the dark.  They 

10          said we cannot afford sporadic and 

11          unpredictable tuition hikes.  They said we 

12          want our SUNY system to continue on its path 

13          of extraordinary success.

14                 The Student Assembly's support of this 

15          resolution does not come unconditionally, 

16          another point often overlooked.  The Student 

17          Assembly would not vote in favor of a plan 

18          which did not call for the guarantee of a 

19          true state maintenance of effort.  Yes, I 

20          recognize that you have maintained support as 

21          it was written five years ago.  New York 

22          State has lived up its statutory 

23          obligations -- sort of.  But if the students 

24          are willing to invest more into their 


 1          education, so too should their elected 

 2          leaders.  It is time that the state paid its 

 3          fair share.  

 4                 The Student Assembly supports a plan 

 5          including continued commitment to ensuring 

 6          that our tuition dollars stay on our 

 7          campuses.  And the Student Assembly supports 

 8          a plan that keeps the discussion surrounding 

 9          our tuition within the body that best 

10          understands the needs of me and my 465,000 

11          peers.

12                 As a fellow elected representative, I 

13          understand how difficult it can be to explain 

14          certain decisions to your constituents.  But 

15          a renewal of NYSUNY 2020 is a renewal of 

16          fairness, a renewal of equity, and a renewal 

17          of predictability.  It is my sincere hope 

18          that you take that into consideration when 

19          making your final decisions.

20                 Thank you.  

21                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Thanks, Tom.  

22                 It's always a privilege to be before 

23          you.  We welcome your questions.  Thank you 

24          very much.


 1                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you very 

 2          much.  

 3                 We've been joined by Assemblyman 

 4          Stirpe and Assemblyperson Harris.

 5                 And Mr. Oaks?

 6                 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS:  Yes.  Also 

 7          Assemblywoman Malliotakis.

 8                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  First to question, 

 9          Deborah Glick, chair.

10                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Thank you, 

11          Chairman Farrell.

12                 Good to see you all.  

13                 In relation to the SUNY 2020 and the 

14          proposal to expand that going forward, has 

15          there been a change in the economic 

16          demographics of the student body at the 

17          various campuses?  Are you seeing that 

18          there's been a diminution of those who are at 

19          different economic strata?  

20                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  You want to say 

21          it for our community and then comprehensive?  

22          Anne?

23                 PRESIDENT KRESS:  Sure.  I can start 

24          first with the community colleges.  


 1                 What we're seeing is actually part of 

 2          a national trend, which is that many of our 

 3          students will go to work if they can find 

 4          employment.  And so with the recovery of the 

 5          economy, we see some of our especially 

 6          lower-income students really forgoing 

 7          education in order to go to work.  And so I 

 8          think across most of our institutions we're 

 9          seeing fewer low-income students.  

10                 We're also seeing fewer Pell Grant 

11          recipients, simply because they've been able, 

12          over the past couple of years, to accumulate 

13          some financial resources, which does impact 

14          that.  But otherwise what we're really seeing 

15          is not a significant change in our 

16          demographics overall, except for honestly 

17          we're seeing more underprepared students.

18                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Robert or 

19          Kristin?

20                 PRESIDENT JONES:  Yes, Assemblywoman 

21          Glick, I'd just like to add that at 

22          University at Albany what we have observed is 

23          that we're probably running pretty constant 

24          in terms of the number of our students that 


 1          are Pell recipients, at about 40 percent.  

 2                 But what's interesting is that we have 

 3          seen a very dramatic increase of the number 

 4          of students that are first-generation 

 5          students.  Currently it stands at about 

 6          40 percent of our students are 

 7          first-generation.  

 8                 And our students of color numbers, 

 9          underrepresented students, is going up on an 

10          annual basis.  Currently it stands at about 

11          34, 35 percent.  But with the last three 

12          entering classes, about 40 percent of those 

13          students have been students of color.

14                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Thank you.

15                 Now, how much capital needs actually 

16          do exist?  Obviously, there's -- and how much 

17          could the system, across its many different 

18          campuses, how much could you spend in a year?  

19          Because there's obviously contracting 

20          requirements and so forth.

21                 So I'm just wondering, my estimate is 

22          that the capital needs are well underfunded 

23          in this budget.  But by how much?  And how 

24          fast could you spend -- should we be able to 


 1          write a blank check, what actually could you 

 2          spend in the course of a year?  

 3                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Bob Haelen?  

 4                 VICE CHANCELLOR HAELEN:  Hi, I'm Bob 

 5          Haelen, vice chancellor for capital 

 6          facilities.  

 7                 When you look at SUNY in its entirety, 

 8          as we look at it into components, and if I 

 9          look at just the state-operated campuses 

10          alone, they make up about 60 million square 

11          feet.  We're looking at a current backlog of 

12          needs of about $3 billion, $3.2 billion.  

13                 In our capital budget request, we 

14          asked for $600 million a year over five 

15          years.  We're looking at our state of decay, 

16          so to speak, or depreciation at around that 

17          $600 million mark.  And if we wanted to be 

18          more transformational with our investment in 

19          capital, we had asked for an additional 

20          $200 million per year, for a total of 

21          $800 million per year.

22                 At our peak with the program, we had 

23          spent a billion dollars, over a billion 

24          dollars.  So that speaks to our capacity.


 1                 We think an $800 million investment is 

 2          something that is achievable, and we have the 

 3          people to do it.  There's only so much work 

 4          you can take on at any given campus.  But 

 5          across the board, there is tremendous needs 

 6          and the ability to meet those needs.

 7                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Thank you.  

 8                 This jumps around a little, but the 

 9          SUNY hospitals have been -- which are, in my 

10          opinion, very important to the regions in 

11          which they exist -- have been cut rather 

12          dramatically over the last five years.  They 

13          are cut once again by the $18.6 million that 

14          we added last year.  And I'm wondering what 

15          kind of impact not just adding -- if we were 

16          to add the 18.6 million, that just brings you 

17          back to where you were.  What could -- what 

18          is really the projected need in our ability 

19          to have you serve the regions in which the 

20          hospitals exist?

21                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Eileen, 

22          introduce?

23                 CFO McLOUGHLIN:  Yup.

24                 Hello, I'm Eileen McLoughlin, the CFO 


 1          of SUNY system.  Good day to everyone.  

 2                 All three of our hospitals actually 

 3          operate at a slight operating loss even after 

 4          state support.  I don't know what that exact 

 5          number is, but I will get it to you.  The 

 6          $18.6 million is just going to aggravate or 

 7          increase that loss.

 8                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Okay.  Well, get 

 9          back to us with some greater specificity 

10          about that.

11                 CFO McLOUGHLIN:  Yes.

12                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  In this round of 

13          SUNY 2020, you've hired 919 professors, I 

14          believe.  If there isn't an increase going 

15          forward, if there were no change in the 

16          funding from student tuition, what would be 

17          the impact on those new hires?  

18                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Well, we continue 

19          to grow.  We've developed high-demand 

20          programs that meet the economic needs of the 

21          state.  We don't always have the faculty in 

22          place to do that, so we hire new faculty to 

23          person these on-demand programs.  So we'll 

24          slow down, we won't be able to meet the needs 


 1          of the students.  

 2                 And I want to say, one of the absolute 

 3          commitments we made when NYSUNY 2020 was 

 4          passed, is that every dollar would go to 

 5          support student programming, access to 

 6          faculty, access to student services.  And I 

 7          daresay that's why the Student Assembly is so 

 8          supportive of this effort.

 9                 So all of that falls by the by.  And 

10          you know we've made this incredible pledge to 

11          graduate more students, to get more degree 

12          completers.  All that capacity will be 

13          diminished.  

14                 And there's one other thing I want to 

15          say at this point, which is I think a lot of 

16          people are looking at the way New York State 

17          has supported public higher education through 

18          NYSUNY and NYCUNY 2020.  This is a concept as 

19          much as it is an investment.  And it also 

20          speaks to the fact that tuition increases 

21          with a cap are less necessary when the state 

22          makes more investment.

23                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  The maintenance 

24          of effort that was baked into the original 


 1          SUNY 2020 turned out to have some 

 2          shortcomings.  The Legislature in both 

 3          houses, in near unanimous votes, put forward 

 4          a stronger, more vigorous maintenance of 

 5          effort, which was vetoed by the Governor with 

 6          the message that it really needed to be 

 7          discussed within the context of the budget.

 8                 Do you have an estimate for SUNY what 

 9          a broader, more robust -- what would have 

10          been the advantage to SUNY had that 

11          legislation been passed?  Or what do we need 

12          to be looking for in this budget relative to 

13          the maintenance of effort?  

14                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Well, I think the 

15          critical ask is around negotiated salaries.  

16          And Eileen can probably give you an exact 

17          number, but it's in the $70 million range.

18                 CFO McLOUGHLIN:  Seventy million for 

19          our collective bargaining, 134 million that 

20          we've absorbed so far.  As well as about 8 to 

21          9 million of utility costs that go up are 

22          some of the fixed costs that our 

23          state-operated campuses absorb.  

24                 And of course the community colleges 


 1          also absorb a lot of their fringe benefit 

 2          costs, does not get that indirect support 

 3          from the state.

 4                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Thank you.  I'm 

 5          almost out of time.  We started last year a 

 6          STEM scholarship program for a full ride for 

 7          students who are in the top 10 percent of 

 8          their high school classes.  I don't know that 

 9          it's well known around the state.  We've done 

10          what we could to recommend to our colleagues 

11          to get it out there.  Has there been -- have 

12          you seen an increase in the number of 

13          students who are coming to SUNY as a result 

14          of this offering?

15                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Kristin?

16                 PRESIDENT ESTERBERG:  In our campus 

17          we've seen dramatic growth in students 

18          studying biology, chemistry and computer 

19          science.

20                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  This is also a 

21          campus that's put the "A" in STEM, so one of 

22          the things that the president likes to talk 

23          about is STEAM, so that we don't overcorrect 

24          for the STEM fields without acknowledgment of 


 1          the arts and humanities.

 2                 PRESIDENT ESTERBERG:  Thank you, 

 3          Chancellor.

 4                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Thank you very 

 5          much.  My time is 10 seconds away from -- so 

 6          I will end now and perhaps there might be a 

 7          follow-up later.

 8                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Thank you, 

 9          Chairperson, for allowing Bob Haelen to talk 

10          about capital.  That means I can go home 

11          safely.  

12                 (Laughter.)

13                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Senator?  

14                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you.  

15                 And I do want to announce that Senator 

16          Diane Savino has joined us.  

17                 And at this time I'd like to introduce 

18          Senator Ken LaValle, who is chair of the 

19          Higher Education Committee in the Senate.

20                 SENATOR LaVALLE:  Chancellor, thanks 

21          for being here.

22                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Thank you.

23                 SENATOR LaVALLE:  Since I get to talk 

24          to you all the time, I'm going to hopefully 


 1          limit my questions.  

 2                 Can you comment on balancing the need 

 3          to maintain competitive salary levels to 

 4          retain valued faculty and administrators with 

 5          reducing overall costs to keep college 

 6          affordable for students? 

 7                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Well, balancing a 

 8          budget of any sort is challenging.  One of 

 9          the things we've tried to do -- and I think 

10          have done successfully -- at SUNY is really 

11          throw ourselves into shared services.  When 

12          we say we have a $100 million run rate, we're 

13          talking about savings that we accrue every 

14          year at a very high level.  Why?  So that we 

15          can continue to invest in the faculty and 

16          staff who serve our students.  

17                 We live in a very competitive market 

18          in higher education.  And interestingly 

19          enough, the public sector has to compete with 

20          the private sector.  So when you look at the 

21          salaries, particularly those that always 

22          interest us the most, the high end, we're 

23          looking at doctors, we're looking at coaches, 

24          we're looking at top researchers whom we 


 1          recruit from around the country.  And they 

 2          don't seem to pay as much attention about the 

 3          economics of a state as they do the economics 

 4          of postsecondary education.  And that's where 

 5          we compete.  

 6                 So to give us that margin of 

 7          excellence, you invest in us, but we also 

 8          invest in ourselves.  We save money so that 

 9          we can recruit the best and brightest in the 

10          world of physicians, in the world of all of 

11          our allied health professions, in the world 

12          of our top researchers -- and yes, sometimes 

13          in the world of competitive collegiate 

14          athletics.  

15                 But I daresay -- and we're doing a 

16          study once again of compensation of our SUNY 

17          employees -- that we are competitive but at 

18          the lower end of the scale.  We do the best 

19          we can to attract the best and brightest 

20          given the resources that we have.

21                 SENATOR LaVALLE:  So you feel you're n 

22          a competitive market in at least the three 

23          areas you talked about, which are doctors, 

24          researchers and coaches.


 1                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Well, and I will 

 2          add to that, in my tenure at SUNY I have 

 3          recruited 47 campus presidents.  This is a 

 4          challenge by any standard, because 

 5          presidential salaries across the country I 

 6          believe to be higher than most of ours.  And 

 7          the presidents who have been here longer and 

 8          not experienced any kind of compensation 

 9          increase now are compressed by those I've 

10          hired more recently who manage to attract a 

11          slightly higher salary.

12                 So we are trying our best to create a 

13          compensation program for our presidents that 

14          is competitive -- which I would say we are 

15          not as competitive as we would like to be -- 

16          and ensures that the savings we make go to 

17          support our leaders.

18                 SENATOR LaVALLE:  The Legislature 

19          keeps looking at the higher tuition burden on 

20          students, ballooning costs in higher 

21          education across the board.  But what are we 

22          doing to address what is really two-thirds of 

23          the public university cost, and that's room 

24          and board?


 1                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Well, I think we 

 2          try in every other area, the same in our room 

 3          and board, to be competitive.  You have a 

 4          largely residential campus, Potsdam is a 

 5          residential campus.  Do you want to talk 

 6          about increases in room and board lately?  

 7                 PRESIDENT ESTERBERG:  We have not 

 8          constructed new residence halls in the last 

 9          several years, and we do try and maintain the 

10          costs for our residence halls.  

11                 But we know that in addition to 

12          providing housing, the cost of the 

13          out-of-classroom experience for students is 

14          extraordinary.  We know that out-of-classroom 

15          experiences, often in the residence halls, 

16          contribute to the rising cost of college, but 

17          it also contributes greatly to student 

18          retention and student success, and so we have 

19          put major investments in our student 

20          programming.

21                 SENATOR LaVALLE:  Chancellor, can we 

22          focus in on that area, maybe take a five-year 

23          picture and give -- so we could share it with 

24          the Senate Higher Ed Committee -- to look at, 


 1          over five years, what those costs actually 

 2          are?  

 3                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Absolutely.  We 

 4          may not have it handy, but we have it 

 5          available and we'll share it with you and 

 6          with the committee.  We would welcome that 

 7          opportunity.

 8                 SENATOR LaVALLE:  Just the last issue, 

 9          the tuition issue that my partner in the 

10          Assembly talked about.  You know, rational 

11          tuition helps families plan for the future.  

12          And it does keep higher education costs kind 

13          of flat at whatever level we choose.  

14                 So why should the Legislature extend 

15          SUNY 2020, which again authorizes increases 

16          of up to $300 per student in tuition costs?

17                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Well, as I 

18          mentioned before, and certainly President 

19          Mastro mentioned as well, tuition is a 

20          balancing act with the state's investment.  

21          If the state invests more, then we can charge 

22          less in tuition.

23                 So there are two things I think are 

24          really important here, the first of which is 


 1          that NYSUNY 2020 is a safety net.  It sets a 

 2          cap, it makes planning for tuition more 

 3          predictable for our students and protects 

 4          them, because we have maintenance of effort, 

 5          from any kind of state sweep to fill other 

 6          over budget gaps.  

 7                 But if the state were to increase its 

 8          investment, our commitment is to ask our 

 9          Board of Trustees not to increase the tuition 

10          either to the max of $300 or relative to the 

11          state's investment.  I think that's what the 

12          Student Assembly has said quite clearly, but 

13          I think maybe you ought to repeat why the 

14          Legislature would make this investment.

15                 MR. MASTRO:  And to mirror the 

16          chancellor, we see where our tuition dollar 

17          has gone the past five years.  We've seen the 

18          increase in programming, the increase in 

19          professors across our entire system.  

20                 When looking at the numbers and when 

21          we worked with our rational tuition task 

22          force and legislative affairs team, in 1991 

23          tuition went up by $650.  In 1995, tuition 

24          went up by $750.  In 2003, tuition went up by 


 1          $950.

 2                 The safety net that the chancellor has 

 3          developed is ensuring that our tuition does 

 4          not go over $300.  We have developed a 

 5          rational tuition task force which will be 

 6          working with system administration to look at 

 7          where our tuition dollars go from year to 

 8          year within the next five years.  And just to 

 9          reiterate, the more state investment, like 

10          the chancellor has stated, the lower our 

11          tuition will go up.

12                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  I love the fact 

13          that the Student Assembly has actually called 

14          on presidents to say:  Show me exactly where 

15          the rational tuition money went.  And you 

16          have done so.  This task force of the 

17          students is helping you do your work by 

18          making sure that we spend the money on our 

19          students.

20                 SENATOR LaVALLE:  I'm going to slip in 

21          one last question.  How does the Legislature 

22          deal with community college aid when many of 

23          the community colleges have declining 

24          enrollments?


 1                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  So let's draw the 

 2          enrollment picture first because it's very 

 3          important that we understand that picture.

 4                 PRESIDENT KRESS:  Sure.  

 5                 And I think enrollment is a metric, 

 6          but I will tell you it is not the metric to 

 7          assess institutions by.  And so I'll just 

 8          take my institution as an example.  

 9                 So in 2010, that was one of our 

10          highest years of enrollment.  And for every 

11          100 students who walked in our front door, 

12          over 40 walked out the back door before that 

13          semester even concluded.  We simply were not 

14          funded to address the challenges that they 

15          presented us.  We put in place a number of 

16          policies to really address some of those 

17          challenges.  We put in place registration 

18          deadlines.  We put in place drops for 

19          nonpayment so students wouldn't walk into a 

20          classroom with no sense of how they would pay 

21          for that course and then walk away before the 

22          term was over with bad debt.  Many of my 

23          colleagues have done the same.

24                 It's a difficult decision to make 


 1          because it is really changing your funding 

 2          level as an institution.  We know we're being 

 3          funded by FTE, so in many ways we have an 

 4          incentive to gather as many FTEs as possible 

 5          regardless of whether or not those students 

 6          will be primed for success.  

 7                 Since that point, I can tell you our 

 8          enrollment took a hit, without question.  But 

 9          what didn't was our retention rate, which has 

10          gone up.  Our GPAs have gone up.  Our course 

11          completion rates have gone up.  Our 

12          graduation rates have gone up.  What has gone 

13          down is our student loan per average student, 

14          and also our cohort default rate.  Why?  

15          Because we were asking students to think of 

16          themselves as students before they came to 

17          us.

18                 I would hate to think that when we 

19          take steps like that to ensure more success 

20          for our students that in some ways we are 

21          penalized for those decisions.

22                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Thank you.

23                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.  

24          Assemblyman Lupinacci, ranking.


 1                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  Good 

 2          afternoon, Chancellor.

 3                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Good afternoon.

 4                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  The first 

 5          question I have relates to some of the new 

 6          programs that you spoke about.  And the 

 7          Executive Budget does provide for a transfer 

 8          of $15 million to SUNY for a Clean Energy 

 9          Workforce Opportunity Program, and $3 million 

10          you said, for the Apprenticeship Program.  

11                 And I guess my question is, how does 

12          SUNY specifically want to use the $15 

13          million?  And is this considered one-shot 

14          revenue, and how will they sustain the 

15          program going forward?

16                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Well, we have yet 

17          to see how this program is going to play out.  

18          But I think the first thing you would say 

19          is this is a very hot issue.  And it's going 

20          to be good for the state that we are 

21          preparing more professionals to deal with 

22          energy management, and especially clean 

23          energy management.

24                 I think initially it can feed on top 


 1          of programs that already exist, where we are 

 2          doing clean energy training and workforce 

 3          development.  And we can do more of it, we 

 4          can increase the use and creation of 

 5          laboratories, but I'm guessing there's more 

 6          detail to that.  But it is an evolving idea, 

 7          we welcome it, we think it's a hot topic for 

 8          our students, and we'll distribute 

 9          accordingly.  Probably competitively, as we 

10          are learning to do, across our campuses.

11                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  Great.  Thank 

12          you.

13                 My next question has to do with 

14          international programs.  And I know the past 

15          few years many of the campuses have increased 

16          the international student population and such 

17          with, obviously, partnerships with the 

18          Dominican Republic and other schools.  And 

19          it's very competitive obviously, to get into 

20          many of the SUNY campuses and colleges.  Is 

21          there ever a choice where sometimes our 

22          in-state residents are turned away because of 

23          the seating for the international students?  

24          Or are they allotted differently?  Or do we 


 1          see, for example, our students within-state 

 2          sometimes not being able to succeed to get 

 3          in?

 4                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  It's interesting, 

 5          New York is not a state that has a quota, as 

 6          I've worked in other states that do.  Our 

 7          international population is under 10 percent.  

 8          To my knowledge, it has not displaced any 

 9          New Yorker.  You have a pretty mature 

10          international program, President Jones?

11                 PRESIDENT JONES:  Yes.  At this 

12          juncture, our international enrollment at 

13          University at Albany is running about 

14          7 percent, and we've set a very clear goal to 

15          try to double that in the years ahead.  

16                 But I can say unequivocally we give 

17          very high priority to New York residents.  

18          Our efforts to expand our international 

19          recruitment is not at the expense of New York 

20          residents.  But it's a reality of the 

21          shifting demographics that we see not only in 

22          the State of New York but across the entire 

23          region, where the number of 10-year-olds that 

24          exist today that are dramatically lower than 


 1          it was 10 years ago, and it will be even 

 2          lower 10 years from now.

 3                 So it's a shocking reality that we 

 4          have to think differently about how we 

 5          recruit our students, where they're going to 

 6          come from, if we are going to be able to at 

 7          least maintain the type of student body, the 

 8          number of students that we have across our 

 9          campuses.  

10                 You know, at University of Albany we 

11          have more than enough room to accommodate all 

12          the students from New York that are 

13          interested in the programs that we have, and 

14          we work very hard to recruit more of those 

15          students, particularly the ones in the top 10 

16          percent of their class.  But I think our 

17          record clearly shows we are a gateway to 

18          opportunity for students from low 

19          socioeconomic backgrounds.  It's reflected in 

20          our graduation rates, it's reflected in the 

21          growing number of underserved students.  But 

22          at the same time, we have many opportunities 

23          to recruit students from outside of the State 

24          of New York and internationally as well, and 


 1          that is part of our strategic plan.

 2                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  Good.  

 3          Especially as the international and national 

 4          reputation continues to build, it's 

 5          important.  Very good.

 6                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Exactly.  Thank 

 7          you.

 8                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  And my last 

 9          question I guess has to do with seating also, 

10          because for the past several budgets we've 

11          spoken about the DREAM Act.  And how has the 

12          forecasting been going if it becomes part of 

13          the budget process?  How many students do you 

14          see that will benefit from the program and is 

15          it -- you know, will seating or capacity be 

16          at play, or how are the schools planning 

17          on -- in terms of accommodating numbers?  

18                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  First of all, the 

19          SUNY Board of Trustees was very early in its 

20          support for the DREAM Act.  And we open our 

21          doors widely.  We've been working with the 

22          Hispanic/Latino caucus to really increase our 

23          opportunity for Hispanic students especially.

24                 And I think we have some 


 1          second-language capacity that's going to 

 2          really attract a lot of students.  And we've 

 3          got colleges and campuses, many in our 

 4          community colleges, that are very capable and 

 5          have an extensive second-language program.

 6                 So I think we are planning to see the 

 7          cultural effects of a more diverse campus and 

 8          looking to those populations to serve that 

 9          interest.

10                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  Has there been 

11          any forecasting in terms of a roundabout 

12          number you think the SUNY system might --

13                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  I don't think off 

14          the top, but we -- if we have forecasting.  

15          We're doing much more in strategic enrollment 

16          management.  I know that my good friend the 

17          chancellor of CUNY is in the house, and we're 

18          also recruiting in New York City.  We know 

19          that diversity -- Kristin's student 

20          population this fall was 42 percent diverse, 

21          and she was recruiting from New York City.  

22                 In my view, there are plenty of 

23          students and adults to go around.  It is not 

24          competitive in the sense that we're actually 


 1          taking away from each other; we're actually 

 2          better serving the State of New York.

 3                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  Excellent.  

 4          Thank you very much.

 5                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.

 6                 Senator?  

 7                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you.  I'd 

 8          like to introduce Senator Stavisky, who is 

 9          ranking member on Higher Ed.

10                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  Thank you, 

11          Chancellor.  And I particularly appreciated 

12          your comment that the state is not doing 

13          enough in terms of its support for SUNY.  And 

14          as a result, the burden is falling on SUNY 

15          but the burden is falling even more 

16          significantly on the students.

17                 I have a number of questions.  Based 

18          upon your testimony, on page 2 you talk about 

19          you had 1.3 million last year, and now 

20          there's been a decline in enrollment.  Have 

21          you found any kind of correlation between the 

22          decline in enrollment and the increase in the 

23          tuition costs brought about by SUNY 2020? 

24                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  So I'm going to 


 1          ask if any of our state-operated presidents 

 2          have seen that.  

 3                 I think we've answered in the sense 

 4          that we have as many low-income students as 

 5          ever before.  You know that we pay the gap 

 6          between TAP, which is $5,000 -- and I just 

 7          want to make sure everybody knows -- and the 

 8          6570, which is the annual tuition, and we pay 

 9          that gap and we're proud of it.  We wouldn't 

10          mind a little help from the state in buying 

11          down the cost of that gap, because that's a 

12          third of the rational tuition that goes 

13          directly to close that gap.

14                 But any remarkable shift in --

15                 PRESIDENT ESTERBERG:  Our proportion 

16          of Pell-eligible students, which is around 

17          40 percent, has remained pretty stable over 

18          the last five years, as is the population of 

19          our students receiving TAP.  

20                 I think what we're finding is that 

21          we're, over the last five years, recruiting 

22          more economically vulnerable students or 

23          students who may not have the same level of 

24          preparation, even though their entering 


 1          grades are as good or better than previous.

 2                 So we're finding that in order to 

 3          increase our retention rates and our 

 4          graduation rates, we're needing to expend 

 5          much, much more on academic and student 

 6          support than previously, so that the students 

 7          that we bring in experience success and 

 8          graduate.

 9                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  So you're 

10          suggesting that the students are not going to 

11          college?

12                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  I'm sorry?

13                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  The reduction in 

14          the student enrollment, I suspect -- what is 

15          happening to those students?  

16                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Oh.  Well, if you 

17          look at our entire enrollment picture for the 

18          last 15 years, it's essentially flat.  The 

19          shift came from our community colleges, who 

20          experienced a peak in enrollment during a 

21          recession.  And again --

22                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  Happens all the 

23          time.

24                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  So I think that's 


 1          really the issue here.

 2                 And I guess it needs to be said, 

 3          SUNY's tuition is very competitive, the 

 4          lowest in the Northeast and in the lowest 

 5          quartile around the country.  The debate here 

 6          is who is going to bear the cost of college 

 7          in New York?  What part of the cost of 

 8          college must come from the state to reduce 

 9          the burden on our students?  

10                 But we all ought to be proud of the 

11          effort to keep tuition affordable, given our 

12          peers.

13                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  I asked in the past 

14          questions about the costs of remediation.

15                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Yes?

16                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  Particularly at -- 

17          obviously the community colleges are bearing 

18          the brunt.  What has been your trend in terms 

19          of the numbers, the cost and so on?  

20                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Let me reiterate 

21          that I think now three years ago we told 

22          everybody, publicly, that we were bearing an 

23          exorbitant cost for remediation, $70 million, 

24          it was costing our students something like 


 1          $94 million to pay for courses that did not 

 2          accrue to degree.

 3                 Since that time, we have implemented 

 4          myriad programs.  First, we worked more 

 5          closely with our K-12 colleagues.  We now 

 6          have 57 early college high schools, which get 

 7          students ready and they even allow them to 

 8          enroll in college courses.  

 9                 We are now adopting an intervention in 

10          math called Quantway-Statway, working with 

11          the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement 

12          of Teaching, to see this intervention -- 

13          which I think, Anne, gets students --

14                 PRESIDENT KRESS:  Mm-hmm.  Mm-hmm.

15                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  -- out of 

16          remediation twice as fast and three times 

17          better prepared.  We know it works; we're 

18          taking it to scale.  

19                 So we've been very busy since we went 

20          public, and we need Eileen to figure out just 

21          exactly how the costs are decreasing.  But I 

22          think, as we would say, we're on it.  We have 

23          multiple pathways.  We're using what works 

24          effectively.  And of course it's a pipeline 


 1          issue, and that's why we're working closely 

 2          with our K-12 colleagues to nip remediation 

 3          in the bud where it occurs and to helpful -- 

 4          not point the finger, but to be helpful to 

 5          our peers.

 6                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  I don't personally 

 7          think that's the purpose, remediation is not 

 8          the purpose of a community college, it's the 

 9          purpose of the pre-K through 12.  So I'm not 

10          being critical, I'm just asking you -- so 

11          you're suggesting that the percentage is 

12          going down.

13                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Yes.  And I think 

14          we ought to be able to prove that over time.  

15          So we'll work on that for you.

16                 But I do want to say, as I say every 

17          year, we prepare the teachers who teach the 

18          students who come to college, ready or not.  

19          We can never not own the challenge of getting 

20          kids college- and career-ready through their 

21          K-12 experience.

22                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  With regard -- on 

23          page 4 of your testimony you speak about the 

24          Budget Investment and Performance Fund.  From 


 1          what I understand, the larger campuses do 

 2          fairly well.  How are the smaller campuses 

 3          affected?  Are they competitive?  Do they 

 4          have a better chance?

 5                 CFO McLOUGHLIN:  The process was 

 6          actually -- the reviews were done by external 

 7          reviews, external to SUNY and the chancellor.  

 8          It was equal amongst all sizes.  And we can 

 9          get you the data, but the spread amongst our 

10          universities and comps and techs and 

11          community colleges were -- all received 

12          funding.

13                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  So there is a level 

14          playing field?

15                 CFO McLOUGHLIN:  Yes.

16                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  And what's really 

17          exciting about this Investment Fund is that 

18          it really reinforced collaboration.  

19                 And so in many ways the request to 

20          renew that $18 million is to persist in 

21          funding programs that were darn good but we 

22          didn't have the money to fund them, and to 

23          encourage more Calendar Number contribution 

24          collaboration across our campuses.  That, to 


 1          me, is how we take what works to scale.

 2                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  Going back to 2020, 

 3          your prepared statement talks about 919 new 

 4          faculty.  That is a direct result of SUNY 

 5          2020?  

 6                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Yes.

 7                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  Are these full-time 

 8          or adjuncts?  

 9                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  They're mostly -- 

10          they're full-time, mostly.  I don't know the 

11          ratio.  Full-time.  We have consensus, 

12          full-time.

13                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  So I assume that 

14          the ratio of full-time faculty is improving?

15                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  We have in our 

16          testimony the -- or we can provide for you 

17          exactly the ratio of full-time to part-time, 

18          because I think you should know that.  But 

19          yes, we're trying keep the balance of 

20          full-time to part-time faculty intact.

21                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  Let me just -- one 

22          last question.  You spoke about student debt, 

23          and yet nationally there's a trend of 

24          something like 60 percent of the students 


 1          graduate with debt, which averages a little 

 2          under $30,000 a year.  

 3                 Can you be a little more specific 

 4          about the student debt that the SUNY 

 5          students -- do you track the students?  How 

 6          do you handle that?

 7                 CFO McLOUGHLIN:  So I'll give you just 

 8          some facts, and if you need more than that -- 

 9          40 percent of SUNY students have no loan debt 

10          when they graduate.  The average is $26,000.  

11          And basically our focus on completion is the 

12          key.  If they can graduate faster, then 

13          they're going to have less debt.

14                 And also, just as part of the 

15          Performance and Investment Fund, 29 campuses 

16          collaborated and asked for Smart Track 

17          funding, and they got it.  So Smart Track 

18          funding, which also helps students reduce 

19          debt, has got to be systemwide.

20                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  I understand it's a 

21          very successful program too.

22                 CFO McLOUGHLIN:  Yes.

23                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  All right, good.  

24          Thank you.


 1                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you.  

 2                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.

 3                 Assemblyman Weprin.

 4                 ASSEMBLYMAN WEPRIN:  Thank you, 

 5          Mr. Chairman.  

 6                 Welcome, Chancellor.  And I'm glad to 

 7          see President Jones as well, of my alma mater 

 8          SUNY Albany many, many years ago.  I 

 9          graduated in the '70s, and I was actually 

10          active in student government at the time.  I 

11          was on the Student Senate and the Central 

12          Council, and I don't ever remember the 

13          student representation working so closely 

14          with the administration, as demonstrated by 

15          Mr. Mastro's appearance here today.

16                 I think that's a positive thing, by 

17          the way.  I don't think that's a negative 

18          thing.

19                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  It was the '70s.  

20                 (Laughter.)

21                 ASSEMBLYMAN WEPRIN:  That's true.  

22                 But I'm glad to see you're working 

23          closely together.

24                 In the Assembly I chair a task force 


 1          on people with disabilities, and I work very 

 2          closely with the CUNY LEADS program, which we 

 3          provided some additional funding last year, 

 4          which provides extra services for those 

 5          students with disabilities.  And we actually 

 6          changed the TAP rules last year to extend the 

 7          time for students to graduate to receive TAP 

 8          because a lot of students with disabilities 

 9          take longer to graduate.  

10                 My question for you is, do you have a 

11          similar program dealing with students with 

12          disabilities?  It may not be as formalized, 

13          but I'd like to know what you've been doing 

14          as far as accommodating the special needs of 

15          some of these students with disabilities and 

16          to give them that extra assistance that they 

17          may need.

18                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  We'll start with 

19          our community colleges.

20                 PRESIDENT KRESS:  Yes, absolutely.  At 

21          the college level I can tell you the 

22          community colleges do work actively with 

23          students who present with a need with 

24          accommodation, whether it's a physical 


 1          disability or a learning disability.  I will 

 2          also say some of those numbers are rising, 

 3          especially with returning veteran students, 

 4          who mainly find their first college 

 5          experience at our community colleges.

 6                 We also engage -- I will speak 

 7          specifically about MCC -- with some 

 8          interesting collaborations in our community 

 9          around students with intellectual 

10          disabilities and providing them with 

11          workforce-readiness training so that they can 

12          see a future for themselves.  It's an 

13          incredibly popular program -- not a huge 

14          program, but I can tell you it's 

15          life-changing, not just for those students 

16          but for their families who now know that 

17          their son or daughter can have a brighter 

18          future.

19                 ASSEMBLYMAN WEPRIN:  Well, this is at 

20          the community college, though.  You're with 

21          Monroe Community College?

22                 PRESIDENT KRESS:  I'm with Monroe 

23          Community College.

24                 ASSEMBLYMAN WEPRIN:  What about with 


 1          the major universities?  

 2                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  I don't know -- 

 3          Eileen, maybe President Jones or Esterberg 

 4          would answer -- but whether any of our 

 5          investment funds went to extend services, 

 6          disability services.  But every campus has 

 7          them.  

 8                 And I would say that our decision to 

 9          have a chief diversity officer on every 

10          campus includes our services to students with 

11          disabilities, to returning veterans, as well 

12          as to cultural diversities as well.

13                 So maybe we can give you a 

14          comprehensive report on our disability 

15          services.

16                 ASSEMBLYMAN WEPRIN:  If you could.  

17          And if you could also look into a similar 

18          program to CUNY LEADS, because that's been 

19          very successful.  And I know it's been 

20          expanding --

21                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  We'll do that.

22                 ASSEMBLYMAN WEPRIN:  -- and I think 

23          that's something that might fit the SUNY 

24          model as well, and it might be something you 


 1          should be looking at.

 2                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  What usually 

 3          happens to us is that we find 10 of them that 

 4          we might not have known we had at this 

 5          moment.  But we will do that research for 

 6          you.  Thank you.

 7                 ASSEMBLYMAN WEPRIN:  Okay, thank you.  

 8                 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

 9                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.  

10                 Senator?  

11                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you very 

12          much.  

13                 Senator Krueger, and then me.

14                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Good morning.

15                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Good morning.  Or 

16          afternoon.  We're not used to this.

17                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Oh, you're right.  

18          I'm sorry.  I forgot we started in the 

19          afternoon.  Excuse me.

20                 So following up on several of the 

21          different questions that were asked about the 

22          expenditures of SUNY, there was a letter from 

23          the director of state operations, and he 

24          cited an article claiming that the 


 1          administrative overhead costs at SUNY were 

 2          $3800 per student.

 3                 So I'm curious, one, do you agree with 

 4          that analysis?  Two, where does that fall in 

 5          relationship to perhaps five years ago or 

 6          10 years ago?  And, three, if $3800 per 

 7          student is for administration costs, how much 

 8          per student per year is spent on faculty and 

 9          teaching staff?

10                 CFO McLOUGHLIN:  The data that was 

11          used was NCES IPEDS data, and they compared 

12          SUNY, which is a comprehensive system which 

13          has 30 community colleges, 29 state-operated 

14          colleges, five statutory and three teaching 

15          hospitals, against systems that are not that 

16          comprehensive.  So I think that's a starting 

17          point.  

18                 In addition to that, if you look at 

19          some other data that's provided from that 

20          same source, we spend more, we spend 

21          $10,000-plus per FTE on instruction than 

22          those other systems we are compared to.  

23                 So we can give you that comprehensive 

24          data.  And, I'm sorry, the jumping up and 


 1          down has caused me to --

 2                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Take a breath.

 3                 CFO McLOUGHLIN:  -- not get my air.

 4                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  No problem.

 5                 CFO McLOUGHLIN:  But -- and under the 

 6          period of SUNY 2020, that five-year period, 

 7          we have managed -- academic instruction 

 8          costs, along with academic support and 

 9          student services, grew at a higher rate than 

10          our administrative costs.  

11                 And in more recent years, the last two 

12          years, that span was a 5 percent -- slightly 

13          over 5 percent growth on the student support 

14          and academic support, versus a 2.5 percent on 

15          administrative.  So as our shared services 

16          and our collaborations have kind of taken 

17          hold, we're growing more on the academic side 

18          than the administrative side.

19                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  I think, in 

20          short, we would welcome the opportunity to 

21          give you the data that Eileen just reported.

22                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  I'd appreciate it.  

23                 And can you just repeat that number 

24          that you said for faculty costs, 10,000 


 1          something --

 2                 CFO McLOUGHLIN:  On instructional 

 3          costs we had $10,300 per FTE, and we actually 

 4          had the data for every other institution we 

 5          were compared to, and it's higher.

 6                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  And then following 

 7          up on an additional question, just so I make 

 8          sure I did understand the answer correctly, 

 9          it is SUNY's position that when your tuition 

10          goes up above TAP levels and we don't 

11          increase the TAP maximum, you are continuing 

12          to meet the earlier commitment to students 

13          that you pick up that cost?  

14                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Absolutely.

15                 CFO McLOUGHLIN:  And collectively, 

16          that's about $60 million at this point.

17                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Six million dollars?

18                 CFO McLOUGHLIN:  Sixty.

19                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Sixty million.

20                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Sixty, excuse me.  

21          Thank you.

22                 The chancellor mentioned that she's 

23          been here seven years, and you've actually 

24          had to do a search for 47 college presidents.  


 1          So how many of your total SUNY system college 

 2          presidents have turned over in seven years?

 3                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Well, we have 59 

 4          campuses -- I'm doing this out loud, this 

 5          will be embarrassing -- not counting the 

 6          statutory campuses.  And of those 59, we have 

 7          replaced 47.  

 8                 Now, I can even remember Cliff Wharton 

 9          saying to me in his tenure he hired 54 

10          presidents.  He was chancellor for nine 

11          years.  I couldn't believe this.  But six 

12          times nine -- in other words, we have a 

13          turnover rate of about six presidents a year, 

14          for retirement, for some, change of position.  

15          But I would say more retirement than change 

16          of position.  We've had some long-standing 

17          tenured presidents.  

18                 But we've been busy, yes.

19                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  For some reason that 

20          number sort of stood out to me.  It was like, 

21          oh, that's a lot of turnover.

22                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Well, 

23          considering -- no, it really isn't.  I don't 

24          view it at all as that.  There might be some 


 1          instances where there's been more rapid 

 2          turnover.  But by and large, our tenure of 

 3          our presidents is probably somewhere between 

 4          six and eight years, which is about the 

 5          national average.  Don't ask me about the 

 6          tenure of chancellors of systems, because 

 7          it's frightening. 

 8                 (Laughter.)

 9                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Then I won't ask you 

10          that question.

11                 So there's a SUNY Central Board.  Then 

12          do each of your colleges or community 

13          colleges have their own boards?  

14                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Our community 

15          colleges have their own local boards.  And in 

16          fact the Environmental Science and Forestry 

17          campus for some reason has a board, but our 

18          state-operated campuses have college 

19          councils.  College councils are appointed by 

20          the governor, and community college 

21          boards are appointed by governors and local 

22          counties.

23                 PRESIDENT KRESS:  Local sponsors.

24                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Local sponsors.


 1                 PRESIDENT KRESS:  And with an elected 

 2          student -- our boards are appointed by the 

 3          governor, also by our local sponsors, and 

 4          then there is an elected voting student 

 5          trustee who serves on the board as well.

 6                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  And what percentage 

 7          are appointed by your local governments, your 

 8          local sponsors, as you put it?

 9                 PRESIDENT KRESS:  Sure.  There are 

10          five local appointees, there are four 

11          gubernatorial -- I may have that reversed, 

12          though.  Wait.  No, there are four -- four -- 

13          yeah, that's right.  Four by the governor, 

14          four gubernatorial appointees; five local 

15          sponsor appointees; and then the elected 

16          student trustee, who serves a year term.  Can 

17          run for reelection, but serves a term of a 

18          year.

19                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  So it's really not 

20          unusual in your system to have appointees at 

21          the local government level?

22                 PRESIDENT KRESS:  No.

23                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  It's a norm.

24                 PRESIDENT KRESS:  It's typical.


 1                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  It's the law.

 2                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  I just wanted to 

 3          double-check.  

 4                 And I'm out of time.  Thank you very 

 5          much.

 6                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Thank you.  

 7                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.  

 8                 Assemblywoman Malliotakis.

 9                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MALLIOTAKIS:  Thank you.  

10                 Welcome, Chancellor --

11                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Thank you.

12                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MALLIOTAKIS:  -- 

13          Presidents.  It's great to have you here.  

14                 I just had two quick questions.  I 

15          think it's a great discussion today, and I 

16          appreciate the questions my colleagues 

17          already asked.  

18                 I just wanted to talk a little about 

19          the Tuition Assistance Program.  In 2010 -- 

20          well, first we talked about the issue of 

21          debt, and we recognize that there's an 

22          average debt of about $26,000 or $27,000 per 

23          student, on average.  But that doesn't 

24          include graduate school, that' just sort of 


 1          includes undergrad.  And so, you know, my 

 2          concern has been in 2010 the state eliminated 

 3          the Tuition Assistance Program for graduate 

 4          students.  So if you're a graduate student 

 5          here in the State of New York, you get 

 6          absolutely no assistance.  And I haven't yet 

 7          seen the Governor put in his proposal the 

 8          restoration of the Tuition Assistance Program 

 9          for graduate students.  And it costs about 

10          $3 million a year, so it's certainly 

11          affordable, especially when we're proposing 

12          something like the DREAM Act that costs 

13          $27 million.  

14                 So I just wanted to get your opinion 

15          on how important it is that we do restore the 

16          graduate tuition assistance, because I feel 

17          that, you know, our students are graduating 

18          with $26,000 debt, we have so many citizens 

19          that are taking on multiple jobs to pay for 

20          graduate school.  And so I think it is an 

21          issue that needs to be addressed, and I'd 

22          like to hear your view as professionals in 

23          the higher education field.

24                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  We would take all 


 1          of the tuition assistance funding this state 

 2          can garner.  We have demands for tuition 

 3          relief of students in high school who are 

 4          taking college-level courses; so that exists.  

 5          We have demand for increase in existing TAP 

 6          awards.  And yes, of course, we would support 

 7          the reinstatement of graduate TAP.  

 8                 The state has some big decisions to 

 9          make relative to the investment in talent 

10          development, which is -- I know seven years 

11          ago when I came, we began to talk very 

12          directly about our role in economic 

13          development.  And I think it hinges almost 

14          exclusively on the number of talented 

15          New Yorkers whom we can educate and educate 

16          better.  

17                 So I can't answer it any more 

18          affirmatively than to say yes, and I think 

19          the challenge for all of us is to prioritize 

20          where is the greatest need.  Is it increasing 

21          the TAP figure?  Is it starting to fund 

22          part-time TAP?  Is it starting to fund high 

23          school TAP and graduate TAP?

24                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MALLIOTAKIS:  Okay.  


 1          Well, I appreciate that.  

 2                 And additionally, I just want to also 

 3          point out -- I'd like to hear your opinion as 

 4          well -- on the issue that the Tuition 

 5          Assistance Program, the income eligibility 

 6          threshold hasn't been increased in this state 

 7          since the year 2000.  It's been 16 years.  

 8          And the last time they increased it, it was 

 9          from $50,000 to $80,000 household income.  If 

10          you're a family of six -- let's say you have 

11          three or four children, right, you have to 

12          put through college and you have to do so on 

13          a salary of $80,000, with the additional 

14          rising costs of living in New York State, I 

15          think it's very difficult to do.  

16                 And so again, I see the DREAM Act for 

17          $27 million -- and I'm not putting you on the 

18          spot to say which one is more important than 

19          the other.  I will say, in my opinion, that 

20          we should be taking care of the citizens and 

21          legal residents of the state first.  

22                 However, I will say that it is, I 

23          think, important that we should be looking to 

24          increase the income eligibility threshold for 


 1          this state, because everything else is 

 2          increasing in the state but we're not seeing 

 3          the TAP awards doing so.  And I think our 

 4          priorities are misplaced in this budget.  

 5                 And I would just like to know your 

 6          opinion, if you agree that we should be 

 7          looking at that income eligibility threshold 

 8          and perhaps bringing it more up to date.

 9                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  I think we would 

10          participate and contribute in the biggest 

11          possible way to additional conversations 

12          around tuition assistance.  I can't say that 

13          strongly enough.  I have to express a great 

14          deal of gratitude that we have what we have, 

15          but it can always can be expanded and 

16          extended, and we would support that 

17          conversation.

18                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MALLIOTAKIS:  We would 

19          love to have the SUNY Board of Trustees pass 

20          a resolution supporting these two proposals.  

21          And I look forward to working with you on 

22          that in the future.

23                 Thank you.

24                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Thank you.  


 1                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you.  I think 

 2          I'm up.  

 3                 So again, we appreciate all of you 

 4          being here today to give testimony.  

 5                 As you know, Chancellor, I am very 

 6          blessed in my region to have several 

 7          institutions of higher learning, whether it's 

 8          SUNY Fredonia, Alfred State College, the 

 9          Ceramics College at Alfred University -- I'm 

10          very much on the cusp of SUNY Geneseo, so 

11          Senator Gallivan and I work together on those 

12          issues.  As far as community colleges go, I 

13          have JCC in Chautauqua and Cattaraugus 

14          Counties.  And in Livingston I have Genesee 

15          Community College.  

16                 So you would think with a rural area 

17          like mine we may have a deficit of higher 

18          learning, but that absolutely is not the 

19          case.  And I truly appreciate your attention 

20          to all of our SUNY system and our community 

21          colleges.

22                 I just wanted to ask a couple of 

23          things.  I was wondering about how things are 

24          going with START-UP NY and SUNY.  And as you 


 1          may know -- I'm sure you know -- at Alfred 

 2          State College, for example, we have a great 

 3          opportunity with the new forest economy to 

 4          actually transform Alfred State into an 

 5          international center of research, and it has 

 6          to do with biorefineries and wood products.  

 7          And it's a clean green but also a very 

 8          exciting opportunity.  So I didn't know if 

 9          you had any kind of update for us on some of 

10          the different projects that are moving 

11          forward.

12                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Want to do that, 

13          Alex?  Alex Cartwright, he's --

14                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Hi.

15                 PROVOST CARTWRIGHT:  Hi, Alex 

16          Cartwright.  I'm provost and executive vice 

17          chancellor for SUNY.  

18                 Right now actually we do have 58 of 

19          our campuses that have already submitted 

20          plans for START-UP NY.  We have 157 approved 

21          businesses with a projected about $29 million 

22          of investment from those companies.  And that 

23          will ultimately create about 4,000 jobs.  

24          Many of these companies are at the early 


 1          stages, so the job numbers aren't there yet, 

 2          but they are growing.  

 3                 Alfred State happens to be one of 

 4          those that is very aggressive in looking at 

 5          how to use all of their expertise in ceramics 

 6          to actually grow into the areas that you're 

 7          talking about.  And we've been --

 8                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Right.  And that 

 9          would be Alfred University, not Alfred State?

10                 PROVOST CARTWRIGHT:  Alfred State --

11                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Alfred State is 

12          different than Alfred University.  So Alfred 

13          University has the Ceramics College.  So -- 

14          but they're both --

15                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  He knows the 

16          difference.  He said it differently.  

17                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Right.

18                 PROVOST CARTWRIGHT:  And the Ceramics 

19          School, I mean, yes.  I know --

20                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Which is 

21          internationally known also, and they have 

22          done -- and so we just had, for example, a 

23          huge announcement with the Governor and 

24          Lieutenant Governor in investing in some 


 1          things there.  So that's phenomenal.  

 2                 And then I know in SUNY Fredonia we 

 3          worked very hard to establish an incubator 

 4          program.  So it's great to hear that there's 

 5          that much progress across the state.  So 

 6          that's good news.

 7                 I wanted to also ask -- you know, we 

 8          talked a little bit about decreased 

 9          enrollment, both in community colleges -- and 

10          that might be economic, to a certain extent, 

11          because when the economy is not doing as 

12          well, people are going back to school to 

13          learn new skills and that sort of thing.  But 

14          also we have seen a declined enrollment at 

15          some of the SUNY schools.  For example, 

16          Fredonia and Alfred and up in Potsdam, for 

17          example, we see an increased competitive 

18          effort from other states to attract our 

19          students away.  And it's really a major 

20          problem.  You can drive through my district 

21          and it is filled with advertising billboards, 

22          all kinds of different mechanisms that other 

23          colleges are reaching out to people to 

24          attract them away.  


 1                 And so, as you know, I had put in a 

 2          bill to try to address that to give a 

 3          somewhat lower tuition rate to people from 

 4          out of state, but it has to be within a 

 5          geographic distance.  And I just was 

 6          wondering if you could give us an update, 

 7          Chancellor, on how those colleges are doing.  

 8          And I know you're aware of the competition 

 9          that we are now facing that is 

10          extraordinarily heavy that is taking away 

11          local students who may typically have gone to 

12          SUNY Fredonia or gone to Alfred.

13                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Well, we are very 

14          pleased that you are interested and 

15          supportive of sort of the border-state 

16          tuition mechanism that would help us be 

17          competitive across our borders. 

18                 I did want to say, we have this very 

19          ambitious degree-completion commitment, from 

20          93,000 degrees issued a year, which is a big 

21          number, to 150,000 degrees issued a year by 

22          2020.  And I think maybe because Alex is an 

23          engineer, he has determined that we can't get 

24          more degree completions if we don't increase 


 1          access and enrollment.

 2                 So you've begun to break down our 

 3          enrollment strategies to help the Fredonias, 

 4          to help the campuses that have experienced 

 5          some loss.  And there are three or four ways 

 6          we're going to do that that you might tell 

 7          quickly.

 8                 PROVOST CARTWRIGHT:  Yes.  So what 

 9          we're trying to do is look at, holistically, 

10          the entire enrollment across the whole system 

11          and to think about where we would target for 

12          increases in enrollment -- nearby states, 

13          increasing -- you know, attracting students 

14          there, making our campuses more competitive.  

15          Looking also at the existing 6.9 million 

16          people in New York that are uncredentialed 

17          right now, can we grow that population.  

18                 So we really are taking that approach 

19          of how can we move enrollment at all of our 

20          campuses.  And particularly with Fredonia, 

21          we've been talking with Fredonia, they are 

22          transforming their first-year program, 

23          they're thinking about how they can add the 

24          things that they're doing in the -- great 


 1          things that they're doing in the arts and 

 2          humanities, along with some of the efforts 

 3          that they have in STEM to think about 

 4          capturing those students who might be 

 5          interested in the STEM fields, which we've 

 6          seen at least, you know, some amount of 

 7          people more interested in the STEM recently, 

 8          that then couples that with the arts and 

 9          humanities that are terrific at Fredonia, and 

10          put those together and really make programs 

11          that are much more compelling.  

12                 So it is this idea of how do you 

13          transform the institution so that they're 

14          more compelling.

15                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  That's great.  

16          That's great news.  

17                 I did have another question, and so 

18          switching gears just a bit.  Recently SUNY 

19          adopted a resolution to install a $15 minimum 

20          wage.  So my question is, what will be the 

21          cost to the system once that is fully phased 

22          in?

23                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  So I always begin 

24          with our support for the concept.  I have to 


 1          say that we supported the concept ahead of 

 2          how we're going to pay for it.  That's 

 3          typically not the way you do things.  But 

 4          it's important that we make a statement in 

 5          support of a living wage for our employees.

 6                 We have calculated the cost by 2018, 

 7          which is full implementation and then the 

 8          immediate annual cost.

 9                 Eileen?

10                 CFO McLOUGHLIN:  So immediately this 

11          year, because we're implementing it at SUNY 

12          starting in January, it's going to be $2 

13          million.  By the end of the next academic 

14          year, it's going to be $6 million.  By the 

15          end of the full phase-in period, it will 

16          $29.7 million.

17                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  And we would 

18          welcome state support in that regard.

19                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Well, we've had a 

20          lot of discussions today about tuition costs 

21          and, you know, the different pressures that 

22          are on the system currently.

23                 When you look at those figures, does 

24          that include factors for compression so that 


 1          -- or is it just the $15 -- 

 2                 CFO McLOUGHLIN:  It's state workers, 

 3          so it does not -- on the SUNY campuses, it's 

 4          not looking at compression with collective 

 5          bargaining units, nor is it looking at 

 6          compression amongst other employment on those 

 7          campuses.

 8                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Okay, thank you.  

 9          There is included in the budget a new SUNY 

10          Apprenticeship Program.  And could you just 

11          give us a little bit more information about 

12          that effort?

13                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Well, several 

14          years ago we made a public commitment to 

15          ensure that every student at SUNY had some 

16          form of applied learning, learning by doing.  

17          That was a big umbrella.  We know that even 

18          our work-study students are having a work 

19          experience.  And by the way, someone who's 

20          flipping hamburgers at McDonald's is having a 

21          work experience.  

22                 So how do we capture all of that and 

23          make sure that we can afford it -- because 

24          our faculty have to be retrained in some 


 1          instances to make sure they help students 

 2          find those applied learning opportunities.  

 3                 We've been partnering with the 

 4          New York State Business Council to create, 

 5          thanks to Accenture, an online matching 

 6          system for students as interns with business 

 7          and industry that can accommodate a paid 

 8          internship.  And we have a newly endowed 

 9          Center for Applied Learning at Potsdam that 

10          we hope will serve -- you don't mind, do 

11          you -- the entire SUNY system.

12                 PRESIDENT ESTERBERG:  Not at all.  I'm 

13          pleased to.  

14                 At our Center for Applied Learning, 

15          the aim is to look at those kinds of programs 

16          that can be scalable, and to look at best 

17          practices for documenting student learning 

18          outcomes through their applied learning, 

19          looking at a variety of models for 

20          compensation of faculty who engage in that, 

21          and then export those out through the SUNY 

22          system.  

23                 We're working with Oneonta on several 

24          different methods to try and document student 


 1          learning.  And the aim is really to ensure 

 2          that every campus has the ability to figure 

 3          out how to do it in a way that makes sense 

 4          for their campus, their students, and their 

 5          location.  

 6                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you.

 7                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Yeah, thank you.

 8                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  And I just want to 

 9          add my voice in support of the critical 

10          maintenance funding.  That is absolutely 

11          crucial.  And also we do need more capital 

12          somehow for the SUNY system to really 

13          continue to bring it forward.  So thank you 

14          very much.

15                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Thank you.  

16                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.

17                 Assemblywoman Barbara Lifton.

18                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN LIFTON:  Hello.

19                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Hello.

20                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN LIFTON:  Welcome.  

21                 I want to ask a question of 

22          Mr. Mastro.  I'm sure he's feeling quite 

23          neglected here.  And I will get to you in a 

24          moment, actually; I'm just giving you a 


 1          little warning.  And I'm sure that Chancellor 

 2          Zimpher has warned you perhaps that I'm a 

 3          little skeptical on the tuition issue and 

 4          that I'd much rather see the state -- I'm 

 5          sure you probably would too --

 6                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Mm-hmm.

 7                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN LIFTON:  -- step up to 

 8          the plate and do much more than we're doing.  

 9          So I want to ask you about your role as 

10          president of the student body -- the Student 

11          Assembly -- and a little about how those 

12          elections happen at the campus level and so 

13          on.  So I'm just giving you a little bit of a 

14          warning there on the topic.

15                 But Chancellor, I think I'll start 

16          with you on the edTPA.  I've talked about 

17          this before, I've asked questions about it 

18          before, and I'm very concerned that I'm still 

19          hearing the same sort of litany of problems 

20          about the teacher certification process at 

21          the SUNY campuses, the edTPA, the other 

22          assessments and exams.  

23                 I'm told that across SUNY, teacher 

24          education programs have -- enrollment has 


 1          dropped by about 40 percent, same as at my 

 2          SUNY campus, SUNY Cortland, that does so 

 3          much -- the number-one teacher preparation 

 4          campus in the state.  A very serious concern 

 5          about that.  I'm told there are serious 

 6          teacher shortages already across the state in 

 7          areas such as special ed, technology 

 8          education, early childhood education, and in 

 9          STEM fields as well.  

10                 There's a concern about diversity, 

11          that students of color, students from 

12          minority districts are not enrolling in these 

13          teacher ed programs or enrolling and then not 

14          going through and finishing to the edTPA -- 

15          which they have to do before they graduate, 

16          yes? -- and even begin to go out and teach.  

17          And that maybe they finish the program but 

18          like 50 percent are not signing up for that 

19          final piece of the assessments in edTPA.

20                 Very concerned about this.  It's -- 

21          you know, I'm not hearing any positive news 

22          about this from a year ago and maybe two 

23          years ago, when some of these issues were 

24          first raised.


 1                 My last question on this -- and I'd 

 2          just like to have you speak to these 

 3          issues -- is the issue of Pearson.  They're 

 4          not in P-12 anymore, but they're still in 

 5          higher ed testing.  Is it true that the state 

 6          does not pay Pearson for their creating and 

 7          administering of the exams, of the four exams 

 8          and assessments, that all new teachers must 

 9          take, that they make all their profits from 

10          the students' taking of tests and their 

11          retaking of tests in many cases?  I'm told 

12          many students are spending a thousand dollars 

13          on the first exam and then retakes of these 

14          exams, and they're not getting much feedback 

15          about why they're not doing well.  There's 

16          just a litany -- I could take more time, but 

17          I think I'll let you speak.  I could go 

18          through a longer list of the details of 

19          concerns.

20                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Well, I would say 

21          I appreciate your list.  It is exactly every 

22          question plus 50 more that we put on the 

23          table a year ago when we formed a panel 

24          called Teach NY.  We prepare 5,000 teachers a 


 1          year across 17 comprehensive campuses, and I 

 2          daresay most of our community colleges give 

 3          the preliminary introduction to teaching as a 

 4          profession, and 40 percent of our teacher 

 5          candidates come from our community colleges.

 6                 So we are shortly to publicly present 

 7          the findings of TeachNY.  We've spent a year 

 8          trying to unravel every one of the problems 

 9          that you've cited.  And they are respected 

10          and appreciated issues, and we really value 

11          teacher education at SUNY.  So when you see 

12          our recommendations, I think they will solve 

13          or are intended to solve many of the problems 

14          you've presented and many more that you 

15          didn't list but you know, I know you know 

16          about.  

17                 So it's called TeachNY.  We had every 

18          important educator in the State of New York 

19          at that table, including representation from 

20          our CUNY system, our colleagues at CUNY, and 

21          our independent colleges.  And we hope that 

22          this will be a breakthrough for teacher 

23          education in New York.

24                 So at this point I think, to give Tom 


 1          time, I just want to say to you we're on it, 

 2          we know these are issues, we want to change 

 3          our enrollment strategy.  We're overproducing 

 4          teachers in some areas and underproducing in 

 5          others.  So I just want to compliment you on 

 6          the litany of things that are problematic and 

 7          to tell you that I think TeachNY will address 

 8          them.

 9                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN LIFTON:  Thank you.  I 

10          look forward to seeing that report.

11                 Mr. Mastro, quickly in my last few 

12          seconds here, so you compared your role to 

13          our role as elected representatives.  And, 

14          you know, many of us are very concerned about 

15          low voter turnout.  You may know that -- I 

16          don't know what your major is, Tom.  What's 

17          your major?

18                 MR. MASTRO:  I'm human development and 

19          education at Binghamton University.  

20                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN LIFTON:  Education and 

21          human development.

22                 MR. MASTRO:  Yeah.

23                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN LIFTON:  So you probably 

24          follow politics a little bit, you're a leader 


 1          in the political world.  

 2                 So we're very concerned about voter 

 3          turnout in our world, and one of the things 

 4          that I and no doubt many of my colleagues 

 5          have done is that we poll our constituents to 

 6          get a very accurate -- you know, we think 

 7          sometimes when 20 or 30 percent of the people 

 8          turn out to vote, maybe we're not getting an 

 9          accurate view of how people really feel about 

10          things.  It's important to do a valid 

11          scientific poll to find out how people feel.  

12          You probably don't have the ability to do 

13          that -- although it might be a great thing 

14          for SUNY to think about doing, Chancellor, to 

15          get a really accurate picture.  

16                 But if you haven't -- maybe you've 

17          done that, maybe I'm wrong about that.  But 

18          are there ways that you've tried to reach out 

19          to what we might call disenfranchised voters, 

20          kids on campuses that are so busy and 

21          commuting and they don't even know what day 

22          the election -- I mean, I don't know --

23                 MR. MASTRO:  No.

24                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN LIFTON:  -- what your 


 1          process looks like, but -- and I'd like to 

 2          know what that process looks like, actually.  

 3          I'd love some information.  What percentage 

 4          of the students are voting in elections, and 

 5          what do you do to make sure you're hearing 

 6          voices that may not otherwise be heard?

 7                 MR. MASTRO:  Okay, yeah.  So like I 

 8          said, each campus, based on the total 

 9          enrollment student population, sends 

10          delegates to the SUNY Student Assembly 

11          conferences.  And those representatives that 

12          are sent to us, depending on the campus and 

13          how their student government is structured, 

14          the campus itself either elects the delegates 

15          or the student government itself elects the 

16          delegates that are then sent to SUNY Student 

17          Assembly.

18                 Throughout the past two years -- I've 

19          been going to the conferences for -- now this 

20          is going to be my fourth year, and our 

21          enrollment of -- the number of delegates that 

22          have been sent, the campus's representative, 

23          the campuses that have been represented at 

24          our conference actually has gone up within 


 1          the last three years from when I started 

 2          coming to our conferences.

 3                 For example, our community colleges, 

 4          the majority of them, as they are smaller, 

 5          send one or two or three delegates.  While 

 6          our larger institutions, such as University 

 7          at Buffalo, Albany, Binghamton, send four to 

 8          five delegates.  

 9                 And prior to those meetings the 

10          student governments are given the documents 

11          that they'll be voted on at our conference.  

12          So from there, they'll bring those documents 

13          to their campus student government and 

14          senate, to look at these types of 

15          resolutions.  And then from there the 

16          delegates come to our conference and vote on 

17          behalf of the entire campus.

18                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN LIFTON:  I'm not sure 

19          you quite spoke to the question about --  on 

20          each individual campus, how does that 

21          election of their representatives or 

22          delegates happen?

23                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Do you know the 

24          percentage of students who --


 1                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN LIFTON:  What kind of 

 2          turnout is there at SUNY Geneseo, for 

 3          instance, or SUNY Binghamton or SUNY Potsdam?  

 4          Do you have those numbers?  Do you have any 

 5          sense of how many students actually 

 6          participate?

 7                 MR. MASTRO:  We've been actually been 

 8          looking at that -- yeah, we've actually been 

 9          looking at that, for the same reason that 

10          you've brought up, ensuring that what's 

11          actually coming forth is accurate.  I know 

12          specifically at our bigger institutions the 

13          student governments are pretty prominent and 

14          known on campus, while some of our smaller 

15          institutions -- I could speak to the 

16          community college sector pretty well; I was 

17          the president of the student government at  

18          SUNY Broome Community College two years ago.  

19          And with that, the turnover rate of the 

20          student government officials is pretty rapid, 

21          within one year.  With that, the student 

22          population as well.  

23                 So ensuring that the student 

24          government has a good footing on the campus 


 1          is something that our student governments are 

 2          looking at to ensure that when students turn 

 3          over, that the student government president 

 4          stays.

 5                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN LIFTON:  Thank you.  

 6                 Anecdotally, I'm concerned about the 

 7          number of students I hear from that are very 

 8          concerned about tuition increases.  And I'm 

 9          sure you represent a certain portion of SUNY 

10          students, and who knows how many really don't 

11          even have the time to weigh in and tell us 

12          about their debt and how concerned they are.  

13                 But thank you very much.  I appreciate 

14          your responses.

15                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.

16                 Senator?  

17                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  I think the 

18          Senators are done.

19                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  All right.  We can 

20          close with Mr. Ra, to close.

21                 ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Thank you, Chairman.

22                 Good afternoon.  I just wanted to see 

23          if we could further address an issue that 

24          Chancellor Zimpher mentioned -- it might be 


 1          something that's of interest to President 

 2          Kress also -- and that's the community 

 3          college childcare program. 

 4                 I know that obviously this is a budget 

 5          that hits on a lot of great types of issues 

 6          like family leave and minimum wage, and we 

 7          always talk about, when it comes to higher 

 8          education, you know, the funding side of 

 9          things in terms of access of all different 

10          types of students.  But I think 

11          obviously this is a very key area as well for 

12          students.  And you mentioned, you know, 100 

13          coming in the door, 40 going out, and I'm 

14          sure this is one of the areas that's been 

15          identified.  

16                 So I'm wondering if you can elaborate 

17          what the impact of a cut like this would be.  

18          Because I'm certainly hearing from, you 

19          know -- I'm in Nassau County.  Our community 

20          college tells us that this program is very 

21          well utilized.  And I think that, you know, 

22          the impact of a cut like this is going to 

23          remove opportunities for people to go and get 

24          a higher education.


 1                 Are the other campuses seeing this 

 2          program at capacity, or is there something 

 3          I'm missing in terms of why this is being 

 4          targeted for a cut by the Executive?

 5                 PRESIDENT KRESS:  I'm happy to respond 

 6          on behalf of the community colleges.  

 7                 I can say that we view this as vital 

 8          funding for our students.  Many of our 

 9          students simply cannot go to college if they 

10          cannot be assured that someone is there, a 

11          high-quality setting, to take care of their 

12          own children.  I'll just take -- we have 

13          multiple campuses and centers within MCC -- 

14          let me take our downtown campus.  

15          Seventy-five percent of the students at our 

16          downtown campus qualify for Pell.  Sixty-six 

17          percent of those students are female.  The 

18          vast majority of them are first-generation 

19          college.  They're also -- they're not just 

20          going to college for themselves, they're 

21          setting a precedent for their whole family.  

22          The reality is without childcare subsidies, 

23          most of them cannot go to school.  

24                 So what does that mean in a community 


 1          like Rochester where child poverty is among 

 2          the nation's highest?  It means those 

 3          families really will see no pathway out of 

 4          poverty.  So these are essential dollars to 

 5          our campus.  

 6                 I want to thank the Legislature for 

 7          restoring and adding funding over time, but 

 8          to see it cut year after year I have to say 

 9          is a bit dispiriting.  

10                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  It's also part of 

11          the legislative agenda of the Student 

12          Assembly.

13                 MR. MASTRO:  Yeah.  Yeah, this is an 

14          item that has been on our legislative affairs 

15          agenda for quite a few years now.  And 

16          looking at our student populations, 

17          especially at some of our community colleges, 

18          the nontraditional student rate has been 

19          going up.  With that, our childcare centers 

20          are in need of additional funding for proper 

21          staffing and the facilities themselves.

22                 In addition to that, at a great number 

23          of our campuses our students that are in our 

24          early childhood education programs often go 


 1          in and they do the applied learning 

 2          experience within those facilities as well.  

 3                 So this item specifically we've been 

 4          pushing for, I know last year and then also 

 5          this year, for increased funding.

 6                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  It's interesting 

 7          how this links to teacher preparation, 

 8          because our early childhood programs really 

 9          do need to be expanded.  And it's all related 

10          to serving this high-need population.

11                 ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Well, thank you.  And 

12          I think I'm confident that there's going to 

13          be a lot of support in the Legislature for 

14          the restoration of this, and hopefully the 

15          expansion of it, as it should be.  But thank 

16          you all.  

17                 And I want to thank Mr. Mastro, who I 

18          had the opportunity of meeting at a reception 

19          a few weeks ago.  As I told him, my earliest 

20          government experience was student government 

21          in college, and I met my wife through student 

22          government in college.  

23                 So it's an important thing you're 

24          doing, and I'm glad to see you sitting up 


 1          there with these distinguished people in 

 2          higher education advocating for your fellow 

 3          students.  

 4                 Thank you.  

 5                 MR. MASTRO:  Glad to be here.

 6                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Thank you.  

 7                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Chancellor, thank 

 8          you very much.

 9                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Thank you.  It 

10          was a good session.  We appreciate the 

11          questions.

12                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  It's hard to 

13          believe seven years went so quickly.

14                 CHANCELLOR ZIMPHER:  Time flew by.  

15          Thank you.

16                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you, 

17          everyone.

18                 (Pause.)

19                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Good afternoon.  

20                 We continue, City University of 

21          New York, James Milliken, chancellor.

22                 Good afternoon, and welcome.

23                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Good afternoon.  

24          Thank you.


 1                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  I messed that name 

 2          up.

 3                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  I commit to you 

 4          that by myself, I will take less time than 

 5          Chancellor Zimpher and her team did.

 6                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  I'm not going to 

 7          say a common word, but thank you.

 8                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Welcome.

 9                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Good afternoon, 

10          Chairs Young, Farrell, LaValle and Glick, and 

11          members of the Finance and Ways and Means 

12          Committee.  

13                 I'm James B. Milliken, the chancellor 

14          of the City University of New York.  And I 

15          want to thank you for providing what is my 

16          second opportunity to meet and share with you 

17          why it's such an honor to lead this unique 

18          and vital institution.

19                 A number of my colleagues, although 

20          not sitting with me, are seated behind me, 

21          ready to throw me a lifeline if needed.

22                 I want to begin with a thank you to 

23          all of you for your continued substantial 

24          support for CUNY and for its students, 


 1          attending in record numbers again this year 

 2          and graduating in record numbers.  This would 

 3          not be possible if it were not for the 

 4          investment that the state makes, and we will 

 5          do everything we can to ensure that we 

 6          continue to earn your trust and confidence 

 7          and your support.  

 8                 For over 150 years, CUNY has been the 

 9          gateway to progress and fulfillment for many 

10          New Yorkers who do not begin life with great 

11          advantages, particularly those from 

12          low-income families, underrepresented groups, 

13          and immigrants.  The promise this state makes 

14          to these talented young New Yorkers is at the 

15          heart of CUNY's and, I believe, New York's 

16          success.  

17                 We're actively strengthening CUNY to 

18          ensure that the university and our graduates 

19          continue to play a leading role for the 

20          benefit of this state.  We're doing that by 

21          vigorously executing CUNY's historic mission 

22          through increasingly evidence-based 

23          strategies and innovations.  

24                 Affordability and access will always 


 1          be fundamental to CUNY and its irreplaceable 

 2          role in the life of our city and state, but 

 3          we are focused more than ever on our 

 4          obligation to ensure that when our students 

 5          leave our colleges, they do so in much 

 6          greater numbers with diplomas that will 

 7          change their lives and the competitiveness of 

 8          New York.  We're hard at work now on a new 

 9          university-wide strategic plan and a master 

10          plan with this in mind.  

11                 Every day we're guided by the unique 

12          mandate established when this body passed the 

13          historic legislation creating the City 

14          University of New York, and later when it 

15          doubled down, establishing the current 

16          governance and structure.  The New York State 

17          Legislature designated the City University of 

18          New York as an institution with a distinctive 

19          mission -- that we'll be an independent 

20          system of higher education that must be 

21          responsive to the needs of its urban setting, 

22          and we'll operate as an integrated system 

23          with close collaboration between the 

24          community colleges and the senior colleges.  


 1          That's critical in helping make possible the 

 2          transfer of so many students from community 

 3          to senior colleges, a number that doubled in 

 4          the last decade.  

 5                 The Legislature also declared that 

 6          "The City University is of vital importance 

 7          as a vehicle for the upward mobility of the 

 8          disadvantaged in the City of New York."  Like 

 9          you, we are committed to not just carrying 

10          out that mandate, but to constantly finding 

11          new ways to strengthen it.  

12                 About 75 percent of the graduates of 

13          New York City's high schools who attend 

14          college come to CUNY.  CUNY is home to 

15          three-quarters of all Pell grant recipients 

16          in New York City, a critical form of aid to 

17          our neediest and, I can attest, many of our 

18          most dedicated students.  

19                 Similarly, New York's remarkable 

20          investment in the Tuition Assistance Program 

21          is key to our students' ability to attend 

22          college.  We're very grateful for TAP, but we 

23          also believe with some changes it could be 

24          even more effective and the result would be 


 1          even more college graduates in New York.  

 2                 Now, the emphasis on access and 

 3          affordability should in no way be seen as 

 4          overshadowing CUNY's outstanding academic 

 5          credentials.  CUNY graduates have won 13 

 6          Nobel prizes.  They have won more MacArthur 

 7          Genius Awards than any other public 

 8          university in America other than Berkeley. 

 9          But I'll note we just passed Berkeley as 

10          having the highest-ranked public interest law 

11          program in the nation.  

12                 Our students won 39 Fulbrights in the 

13          last two years alone.  I recently met with a 

14          Brooklyn College graduate, a young woman who 

15          emigrated from Pakistan as a child.  After 

16          graduating from CUNY she became a Rhodes 

17          Scholar.  She's now in her second year at the 

18          Harvard Medical School.  This is an example 

19          of so many of our students who, when given 

20          the opportunity, excel beyond our 

21          imaginations.  

22                 And our faculty are as impressive as 

23          our students.  And we're grateful for your 

24          support which has allowed us to hire so many 


 1          more needed full-time faculty in the past 

 2          four years.  They earn Fulbrights, 

 3          MacArthurs, and competitive grants in record 

 4          numbers.  They're recognized for their 

 5          excellent teaching as well as their research 

 6          and creative activity.  They are the reason 

 7          our colleges are consistently ranked as the 

 8          best values in the nation.  And this 

 9          recognition isn't simply a statement about 

10          cost -- it's a recognition of CUNY's high 

11          quality at a reasonable price.  And the 

12          faculty are, of course, responsible for that 

13          outstanding quality.  

14                 This talented faculty has been working 

15          without a contract -- and at salaries 

16          significantly lower than their peers -- for 

17          more than five years now, and thus far we've 

18          been unable to reach an agreement with them. 

19          Last year when I appeared before you, I said 

20          we were seeking support from the state and 

21          the city for an agreement in line with other 

22          state unions.  We are unfortunately in that 

23          position again a year later.  

24                 I can say without equivocation that my 


 1          highest priority, as well as that of the 

 2          Board of Trustees and the college presidents 

 3          of CUNY, is to get this contract settled and 

 4          pay the increases to which our 45,000 faculty 

 5          and staff are entitled.  

 6                 You know that the knowledge economy 

 7          increasingly offers its most attractive 

 8          opportunities to those who attain degrees 

 9          beyond high school.  The share of jobs that 

10          require postsecondary education has doubled 

11          since I, and perhaps some of you, went to 

12          college.  Bachelor's degree graduates earn 

13          annually, on average, more than $20,000 more 

14          than high school graduates, and their 

15          unemployment rate is about half of those 

16          without college degrees.  

17                 And here's why this is so important to 

18          CUNY.  Nationally, half of all people from 

19          high-income families have a bachelor's degree 

20          by age 25; just one in 10 people from the 

21          lowest quintile of families in the economic 

22          strata earn a degree by 25.  But here's the 

23          good news:  When children born into the 

24          bottom fifth of income distribution -- many 


 1          of CUNY's students -- get a college degree, 

 2          their chances of making it to the top fifth 

 3          nearly quadruple.  Their chances of making it 

 4          out of the bottom increase by more than 

 5          50 percent.  

 6                 Intel's Andy Grove called CUNY, where 

 7          he received his engineering degree, the 

 8          American Dream Machine.  I might also call it 

 9          the best prescription available to reduce 

10          income inequality through opportunity.  

11                 A great many of our 275,000 

12          degree-seeking students face more challenges 

13          than most in making it to graduation.  But we 

14          are tackling this head on.  We have put in 

15          place and are expanding a number of programs 

16          to provide the support that helps thousands 

17          more achieve that goal every year.  In some 

18          instances the results are encouraging; in 

19          others, revolutionary.  

20                 Nationwide, the three-year graduation 

21          rate at urban community colleges is 

22          15 percent.  That is simply unacceptable.  To 

23          address this daunting challenge, CUNY 

24          designed and rolled out a program called 


 1          ASAP, which is considered one of the most 

 2          significant outcome improvement initiatives 

 3          in higher education in the country.  

 4          Three-year graduation rates among ASAP 

 5          students have soared to 55 percent in the 

 6          most recent class, and we feel we may be able 

 7          to reach and exceed 60 percent, more than 

 8          triple the old graduation rate.  

 9                 And with generous support from the 

10          city and the state, we're scaling up ASAP 

11          from 4,000 students last year to 25,000 

12          students in three years, including the first 

13          full implementation at one of our community 

14          colleges and a pilot program at a senior 

15          college.  Eighty-seven percent of these 

16          students are African-American, Latino or 

17          Asian.  ASAP's great success and our rapid 

18          expansion is why we would like to ask that 

19          you restore $2.5 million in our budget for 

20          ASAP.  

21                 Another item I would like to ask you 

22          to consider including in your budget is 

23          funding for the newly accredited CUNY School 

24          of Medicine at City College, which opens its 


 1          doors next fall.  This new college will build 

 2          on 40 years of success of the Sophie Davis 

 3          School of Social Medicine and is uniquely 

 4          designed to serve the important mission of 

 5          CUNY.  Almost half of our students will be 

 6          from underrepresented groups -- many times 

 7          the national rate -- and most of our 

 8          graduates will continue to practice in 

 9          federally designated underserved areas.  

10                 It's a natural for CUNY and New York, 

11          and we're asking only that the school 

12          receives the same per student funding now 

13          provided for SUNY medical schools.  

14                 I turn now to the items included in 

15          the Governor's Executive Budget.  The 

16          eye-catcher, of course, was a suggested shift 

17          in CUNY's funding, proposing that New York 

18          City assume responsibility for 30 percent, or 

19          $485 million, of operating costs and debt 

20          service.  The proposal was accompanied by an 

21          investment of $240 million to help settle our 

22          bargaining agreements, which was a most 

23          welcome recognition of the importance of this 

24          resolution.  


 1                 Determining the appropriate level of 

 2          state and city support for CUNY is an 

 3          important responsibility of our elected 

 4          leaders, especially in this body.  My 

 5          obligation, I believe, is to convince you 

 6          that a strong CUNY is vital to the future of 

 7          the state and that those New Yorkers who need 

 8          opportunity the most benefit from the 

 9          investment in CUNY.  

10                 I would argue that there is a need for 

11          greater overall investment in an institution 

12          which is responsible for 275,000 degree- 

13          seeking students and an equal number of adult 

14          and continuing education students every day.  

15          To serve them and the state well, it is 

16          essential that the investment in CUNY be 

17          stable, secure and adequate.  That, in my 

18          mind, should be the discussion we have.  

19                 Of the many investments the state is 

20          asked to make, I am convinced that higher 

21          education produces one of the highest returns 

22          on investment, and it's the one that changes 

23          the trajectory of generations.  

24                 The Governor recently expressed 


 1          concern -- and it was mentioned earlier, so I 

 2          will mention it now -- about costs in higher 

 3          education at both SUNY and CUNY.  Just this 

 4          year we cut $50 million in costs through a 

 5          series of steps including hiring freezes, 

 6          purchasing reductions, reductions in 

 7          temporary employees, and more.  And CUNY has 

 8          been a national leader in consolidating 

 9          back-office functions and implementing shared 

10          services in many areas such as information 

11          technology, human resources, admissions, 

12          financial aid, security and more.  But we 

13          embrace our role as stewards of public funds; 

14          we know we can always improve.  We will 

15          continue to look at ways to shift 

16          expenditures to those areas directly 

17          affecting the outcomes of our students.  

18                 In his budget, Governor Cuomo provided 

19          support for a number of important programs, 

20          and we very much appreciate his recognition 

21          of the importance of those investments.  The 

22          Governor proposed a renewal of the 

23          predictable tuition policy in his budget, 

24          which has for the last five years provided an 


 1          important opportunity for the university to 

 2          make thoughtful investments and has allowed 

 3          students to be in a position to plan ahead 

 4          for moderate increases, avoiding the kinds of 

 5          spikes we saw before 2011.  

 6                 No one likes to increase tuition, and 

 7          especially at CUNY.  I am sympathetic to our 

 8          student leaders who oppose tuition increases, 

 9          but in truth we have one of the lowest 

10          tuition levels in the country, and today 

11          approximately 80 percent of our associate and 

12          bachelor's degree graduates leave with zero 

13          federal debt.  I want to emphasize that in 

14          the context of the last discussion, where 

15          national numbers in the mid-20,000s, on 

16          average, for undergraduate debt were 

17          mentioned.  At CUNY, only 20 percent have 

18          federal debt when they leave, of any size, 

19          and it's considerably lower than the national 

20          average.  

21                 But we must be in a position to invest 

22          in new faculty and academic advisors, to 

23          support our current faculty, and to offer our 

24          students a high-quality education and the 


 1          opportunity to graduate on time.  Because of 

 2          our policy, during the last four years we 

 3          were able to add about 996 new full-time 

 4          faculty and, at the same time, to increase 

 5          student success significantly.  

 6                 Access does not seem to have been 

 7          restricted; our enrollment grew during this 

 8          same period by 5 percent, or 13,000 

 9          students -- essentially the size of a new 

10          college -- and this year we have the largest 

11          enrollment in history.  During this same 

12          period, graduation rates went up at both 

13          senior and community colleges, and 20 percent 

14          more degrees were awarded annually.  And more 

15          credits were earned and skills proficiency 

16          achieved during the freshman year than ever 

17          before.  

18                 We've committed to freezing community 

19          college tuition this year.  So of CUNY's 

20          275,000 degree-seeking students, 100,000 of 

21          them would see no change.  To help us make 

22          good on that commitment to our students who 

23          need it most, we're seeking an increase in 

24          base aid for our community colleges of $250 


 1          per student.  And for the senior college 

 2          students, we commit to carefully reviewing 

 3          our needs each year and proposing to our 

 4          board thoughtful, required increases, not 

 5          automatically charging the maximum rate 

 6          authorized.  

 7                 The continuation of the Governor's 

 8          performance funding program is a welcome 

 9          investment in innovative programs to support 

10          our students.  Each of our colleges received 

11          funding to support new initiatives related to 

12          performance measures and student success.  

13          And the continuation of funding will position 

14          us to make sustainable investments that can 

15          lead to improved outcomes over time.  

16                 The Governor's support for the DREAM 

17          Act is a priority that CUNY's Board of 

18          Trustees endorses.  We have been more 

19          successful than any university in the country 

20          in attracting private funds to support 

21          scholarships for these students, going from 

22          about 30 to over 360 students supported by 

23          private scholarships in one year, working 

24          closely with the TheDream.US Foundation.  


 1                 Moving to capital, we have a number of 

 2          important requests, beginning with the need 

 3          for adequate investment in our critical 

 4          maintenance.  We're grateful for the 

 5          $103 million in the Executive Budget, but our 

 6          needs are significantly greater.  The average 

 7          CUNY building is more than 50 years old, and 

 8          some are more than 100 years old.  Our aging 

 9          building stock and a history of deferred 

10          maintenance are among the most critical 

11          issues facing CUNY.  Many of our labs are 

12          dated and need to be modernized with the 

13          latest teaching tools our students deserve. 

14                 In 2007, together with SUNY, we 

15          conducted a study to see what it would take 

16          to bring our campus facilities to a good 

17          state of repair.  The need was $3.2 billion 

18          for CUNY then.  We have made progress, but 

19          when the study was updated in 2012, we found 

20          that the backlog was still at $2.4 billion.  

21                 Our campuses are open seven days a 

22          week, with classes scheduled throughout the 

23          day and most evenings.  We have 28 million 

24          square feet of space, but we need 


 1          considerably more.  There are 55,000 more 

 2          CUNY students using our buildings today than 

 3          there were one decade ago.  In other words, 

 4          we have added an equivalent about 15 percent 

 5          larger than University of Michigan to CUNY 

 6          during that time, using those same buildings 

 7          that were overstressed at the time.  

 8                 Our request includes important 

 9          priorities at Baruch, York, Hunter, Medgar 

10          Evers, Brooklyn College, Staten Island, 

11          Lehman and more.  Many of these are science 

12          and health professions buildings that are 

13          necessary not only to provide opportunities 

14          to our students but to meet the medical, 

15          science, technology and health needs in 

16          New York.  

17                 I look forward to discussing CUNY's 

18          budget request and any other issues, and I 

19          once again offer my thanks for your continued 

20          support for public higher education and for 

21          the City University of New York in 

22          particular.  The Legislature has given CUNY a 

23          challenging and critical mandate.  In 

24          embracing this role, the university has 


 1          responded with outcomes that have served this 

 2          state well.  We will continue to do all we 

 3          can to see that the mission we all share, 

 4          which means so much to so many, is 

 5          successful.

 6                 Thank you very much.

 7                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you very 

 8          much.  

 9                 Deborah Glick, chair.

10                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Thank you.

11                 Good afternoon, Chancellor.  Good to 

12          see you.  

13                 You mentioned the cost shift from the 

14          state to the city for 30 percent of the CUNY 

15          budget.  What do you think would be the 

16          impact if that was to go forward?

17                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  I'm not quite 

18          sure what you mean.  You mean if, as written 

19          in the Executive Budget, there was a shift of 

20          cost from the state to the city?

21                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Right.  And the 

22          city is currently approaching its own budget 

23          negotiations.  This wasn't something that I 

24          think was necessarily on their to-do list 


 1          until the middle of January.

 2                 Has there been any conversation about 

 3          whether the city could in fact absorb that, 

 4          or have they told you to start scaling back 

 5          now?

 6                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  So I'm probably 

 7          less equipped to discuss the impact on the 

 8          city's budget than some other people would be 

 9          that you could have before you.  My 

10          impression was, from both public statements 

11          and conversations, that it was not an 

12          enthusiastically received recommendation at 

13          the city.  And my understanding was there 

14          were going to be additional conversations 

15          about cost-effectiveness and efficiencies, 

16          which at the time, as well as today, we 

17          welcome that discussion.

18                 Obviously, as I mentioned in my 

19          testimony, the big benefit to CUNY from that 

20          transfer would have been the $240 million in 

21          investment in our collective bargaining.  But 

22          it remains to be seen whether that would 

23          still be available.

24                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  And that's a 


 1          one-shot.

 2                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  I'm sorry?

 3                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  And that's a 

 4          one-shot.  That would cover the past, nothing 

 5          anticipated in the future.

 6                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Oh, yes.  Yeah, 

 7          that's absolutely true.  You know, that 

 8          $240 million, coincidentally or not, was a 

 9          figure that I think represented an estimate 

10          that -- retroactive funding for our largest 

11          union.

12                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  You talked a bit 

13          about the demographics of the average CUNY 

14          student and that students graduate with 

15          substantially less debt than other students 

16          in similarly situated urban campuses in other 

17          parts of the county.  

18                 Over the last five years, with an 

19          increase of $1500 in tuition and now this 

20          proposal for another, that would represent a 

21          fairly significant increase.  Has CUNY seen 

22          any shift in the demographics of the student 

23          body?  Are there students who are, at the 

24          lower economic scale, either taking longer to 


 1          graduate because they have to take time off 

 2          to work to make up that difference or -- what 

 3          has been the experience of CUNY regarding the 

 4          impact on student demographics?

 5                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  During the 

 6          period of predictable tuition, the 

 7          demographics of CUNY have changed.  The 

 8          percentage of our students who are from 

 9          households with household income of $20,000 

10          or less has gone up.  Without adjusting for 

11          inflation, it's gone from 35 percent to 

12          38 percent of that lowest group in the 

13          economic strata.

14                 Our student body has also become more 

15          diverse during that period.  And as I 

16          mentioned, it has grown significantly, 5 

17          percent, during the same time, and graduation 

18          rates are up at both community colleges and 

19          senior colleges.

20                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  The ASAP 

21          program, which you rightly say has been an 

22          enormously successful program -- and has been 

23          recognized, certainly by the President, as 

24          well as many of us -- right now you're 


 1          serving -- you're currently serving 4,000 

 2          students?

 3                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  I think that was 

 4          last year's number.  It may be written 

 5          inartfully, but --

 6                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Right.  And 

 7          you're asking for $2.5 million, which is a 

 8          restoration.  Does that just keep you at 

 9          serving the students you have in the past, or 

10          is there growth anticipated in that?  And how 

11          many more students would you actually be able 

12          to serve?

13                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  So this is a 

14          program that has been shared by the city and 

15          the state, and by far the largest investment 

16          is coming from the city -- by far.  About 

17          $80 million is what it will grow to.  And 

18          that will support us expanding from the 4,000 

19          last year to, by 2018, 25,000 students in 

20          ASAP, including all of the full-time students 

21          at Bronx Community College.

22                 This will be our opportunity to prove 

23          wrong what some people have said, that this 

24          program is expensive and you can't scale it.  


 1          For one thing, the costs keep coming down as 

 2          we grow the program, because there are 

 3          economies of scale.  

 4                 And for the second -- and these are 

 5          not our numbers.  They come from MDRC, they 

 6          come from Columbia and other independent 

 7          groups that have looked at this -- the cost 

 8          per degree in ASAP is considerably less than 

 9          the cost per degree otherwise, because 

10          students graduate at two to three times the 

11          rate.

12                 So for the investment we're making, to 

13          get degree production at that level is a 

14          remarkably good investment, I think.

15                 Now, I want the state to continue to 

16          participate in this because what has worked 

17          at the community colleges I believe will also 

18          work at the senior colleges.  And we have a 

19          program we're piloting at John Jay now.  I 

20          mean, the ASAP is not rocket science.  There 

21          are a number of critical components that 

22          intuitively would contribute to graduation in 

23          a timely manner.  And we believe that the 

24          same kinds of programs and supports for our 


 1          students can be put in at the senior 

 2          colleges, and we're going to test that at the 

 3          first one now.

 4                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Currently the 

 5          part-time TAP program is available only to 

 6          students who have already for a year attended 

 7          full-time.  And of course the reason that 

 8          people attend part-time perhaps are work 

 9          requirements, family needs.  

10                 Do you think that there could be a 

11          change in the way we administer part-time TAP 

12          that would perhaps be more useful to the 

13          student body at CUNY?

14                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Yes.  Many CUNY 

15          students attend part-time.  And particularly 

16          there was a discussion earlier about graduate 

17          TAP.  Most of our graduate students attend 

18          part-time, so when that was eliminated, the 

19          impact on CUNY students was far less than on 

20          students throughout the state.  

21                 So there's no question that any 

22          program which benefits working students who 

23          are attending part-time is a benefit to CUNY.

24                 I would suggest, to follow up on the 


 1          discussion earlier, since there was some 

 2          back-and-forth about the commitment of CUNY 

 3          and SUNY to pay the -- or credit the 

 4          differential cost of higher education after 

 5          tuition increases, so that above the TAP 

 6          maximum we would provide that credit -- that 

 7          accounts for about $49 million in our budget 

 8          today.  

 9                 It's quite a significant investment.  

10          I think I heard Chancellor Zimpher say it was 

11          about $70 million at SUNY.  And I think this 

12          represents a disproportionately high 

13          percentage of TAP-eligible students at CUNY.  

14          But it's about a $50 million hit for us, 

15          money that we would not be needing to ask you 

16          for to make investments in other programs.  

17                 But if TAP fully covered the 

18          undergraduate tuition at our colleges, we 

19          would have that money available to do things 

20          like hire more advisors, hire more faculty, 

21          pay our faculty and staff, et cetera.  So I 

22          think it's a significant issue that I hope 

23          will get some attention at some point.

24                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Obviously you 


 1          mentioned the extreme need for capital for 

 2          the City University.  Many of your buildings 

 3          are quite old.  There are new facilities that 

 4          are planned and hopefully will see continued 

 5          work.  What do you think you could spend in a 

 6          year?  How much more money could you use in 

 7          the next year's budget that you could put 

 8          into the pipeline?

 9                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  (to staff)  How 

10          much in a year?  Half a billion?  Thank you.

11                 I thought she said, the second time, 

12          half a million, and then I thought you would 

13          give it to me on the spot.

14                 (Laughter.)

15                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  I'd get out my 

16          checkbook.

17                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Five hundred 

18          million.

19                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Thank you.  My 

20          time is out.  I'm going to look over -- I may 

21          have one follow-up question.

22                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you very 

23          much.  

24                 Senator?


 1                 SENATOR LaVALLE:  Chancellor, thank 

 2          you for being here.  I think you really 

 3          represented what City University is all 

 4          about.  

 5                 And then on page 5, the first full 

 6          paragraph, it starts off -- that's all right, 

 7          I'm going to --

 8                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Okay.  I don't 

 9          have that testimony, so if you'd tell me.

10                 SENATOR LaVALLE:  You go:  "I want to 

11          now turn to the items included in the 

12          Governor's Executive Budget.  The eye-catcher 

13          was," and then you go on to talk about these 

14          numbers of 485 -- both the Assembly chair and 

15          I, that number is embossed in our brains, 

16          485 -- and then also 240, followed by 

17          "million."  

18                 What I thought you should have put in 

19          there is "Oh, Lord, why me?"

20                 (Laughter.)

21                 SENATOR LaVALLE:  And I thought that 

22          the Assembly chair wanted to show certainly 

23          her interest in this, and that this is 

24          important to her, and I want to show you it's 


 1          critically important to us.  Because you 

 2          can't make things go away.  

 3                 Because then you went -- and this is 

 4          really not your style -- you did a dodge, 

 5          beautifully, and you said "My obligation, I 

 6          believe, is to convince you that a strong 

 7          CUNY is vital" -- bup, bup, bup, bup.  No, 

 8          that's not your obligation.  

 9                 Your obligation is to tell us how are 

10          we going to deal with this problem.  Four 

11          hundred eighty-five million at our table, 

12          when we're dealing with the budget, is not 

13          nickels and dimes.  This is a very, very 

14          serious problem.  It's a life-changer for 

15          your institution.

16                 And so I don't know if I need an 

17          answer today, but what I am saying to you, 

18          this is critically important and it is your 

19          obligation in some way to protect your 

20          institution.  Because this, this is a 

21          game-changer.

22                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  You -- do you 

23          want --

24                 SENATOR LaVALLE:  Yes.


 1                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  I couldn't agree 

 2          with you more that it is my obligation to 

 3          protect my institution.  

 4                 What is proposed in this Executive 

 5          Budget is a shift in funding that is 

 6          revenue-neutral for CUNY.  Now, what the 

 7          outcome will be after discussion, 

 8          negotiation, et cetera, I don't know.  My 

 9          point to you, Senator, respectfully, was that 

10          I believe we should -- the conversation 

11          should be about what additional investments 

12          need to be made in CUNY beyond the baseline 

13          of today because of all the students it's 

14          serving, and whether it's in operating or 

15          capital, without sufficient support.  So 

16          whether it comes from the state or the city, 

17          which both now contribute to the budget of 

18          CUNY, I believe the question is what can be 

19          done to make sure that CUNY has adequate 

20          funding and has a secure base of funding so 

21          that our students can continue to depend on 

22          that and we can continue to serve them and 

23          New York.

24                 SENATOR LaVALLE:  I know you're not 


 1          going to answer the question, but let me go 

 2          now -- does the 240 million get us a 

 3          bargaining deal?

 4                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Maybe you could 

 5          get a few of us in a room here --

 6                 SENATOR LaVALLE:  I'm sorry?

 7                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  No, I'm sorry, 

 8          that was humor.  I was looking over my 

 9          shoulder at the representatives of the --

10                 SENATOR LaVALLE:  Yes.

11                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  -- of the 

12          Bargaining unit who are here.

13                 SENATOR LaVALLE:  So it's certainly 

14          helpful.

15                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  It absolutely 

16          would be helpful.  Right now, as I've made 

17          clear before publicly and in every other way, 

18          is that without additional investment, we are 

19          trying to, through reallocating, through use 

20          of tuition, through use of any resources 

21          available to us, try to resolve a contract 

22          with our unions representing our 45,000 

23          employees.  Which would be a significant 

24          addition to what we are able to do.


 1                 SENATOR LaVALLE:  I'm going to ask you 

 2          the same question I asked Chancellor Zimpher.  

 3          Can you comment on balancing the need to 

 4          maintain competitive salary levels to retain 

 5          valued faculty and administrators with 

 6          reducing overall costs to keep college 

 7          affordable for students?

 8                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Right.  Well, 

 9          you know, I think there's pretty good 

10          evidence that CUNY is affordable.  It has 

11          among the lowest tuitions in the country, has 

12          the lowest debt rate that I have heard of for 

13          graduates.  I guess the Empire Center 

14          produced a report, just based on the state 

15          payroll, that indicated that three out of the 

16          50 top highest-paid public employees in the 

17          State of New York were from CUNY, three out 

18          of 50.

19                 Interestingly, if you went across the 

20          country -- and I think, Senator, you know 

21          this well -- if you went across the country 

22          to every other state, the most highly paid 

23          public employees would be university 

24          employees.  I happened to look at California, 


 1          Illinois, Florida, Texas, and that is the 

 2          case with the top 50 there.  The only 

 3          difference that I can see in New York is that 

 4          in each of those other states, the 

 5          highest-paid employee is a coach.  That's 

 6          not the case in New York State.

 7                 So it's a competitive market, a 

 8          national and in some cases international 

 9          market for the most talented faculty -- and 

10          in many cases, the most talented 

11          administrative leadership, whether it's our 

12          colleges, as presidents or other senior 

13          leaders, or throughout the university.  We 

14          compete in that market, and in my view, 

15          leadership matters.  And the investment that 

16          we make there, I hope it is always wise -- I 

17          will do everything I can to make sure that it 

18          is -- but I think it's worthwhile.

19                 If you look at our costs across -- 

20          compared across the country to other 

21          similarly large university systems -- this 

22          was a discussion that you had earlier with 

23          the SUNY representatives, so I will follow up 

24          on that -- you can compare in lots of 


 1          different ways and you can use lots of data 

 2          sources.  One that's used frequently is based 

 3          on IPEDS data, which is, as you know, 

 4          self-reported from institutions.  So at CUNY 

 5          it's reported by 24 colleges and then it's 

 6          reported by CUNY central.  And there are a 

 7          lot of things in that data that if we had 

 8          better control over, it wouldn't be included, 

 9          and they tend to skew the results.  

10                 So I suggest we look at something like 

11          independently audited financial statements of 

12          universities, whether it's CUNY and others, 

13          and look at a commonly defined institutional 

14          overhead that is used the same way 

15          everyplace:  CUNY compares quite favorably in 

16          terms of its administrative costs.

17                 SENATOR LaVALLE:  Assemblymember Glick 

18          asked you a great question in terms of the 

19          capital dollars, half a billion.  Is that 

20          critical maintenance or critical maintenance 

21          plus new endeavors?

22                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  It's plus.  It's 

23          the combination.  A critical maintenance in 

24          the Executive Budget of $103 million, as I 


 1          mentioned, I think our ask for senior 

 2          colleges was 284 million.  There are some 

 3          large projects and some small ones across 

 4          CUNY, and critical maintenance is at the top 

 5          of the list.

 6                 SENATOR LaVALLE:  Okay.

 7                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  But those are 

 8          also some of the new facilities, some that 

 9          are underway, where design is underway, or 

10          planning -- or even, in one case, 

11          construction, where we still need funding to 

12          be able to complete it.

13                 SENATOR LaVALLE:  Okay.  Thank you.

14                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Thank you.

15                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you, Senator.

16                 Assemblywoman Malliotakis.

17                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MALLIOTAKIS:  Thank you, 

18          Chancellor, for being here.

19                 I just wanted to ask you the same 

20          questions that I've asked the SUNY chancellor 

21          earlier, and that is what is your opinion on 

22          -- or do you think it should be a priority, 

23          rather, of the state to restore the Tuition 

24          Assistance Program for graduate students that 


 1          was eliminated back in 2010 when there was a 

 2          $13 billion deficit?  Since then, I have not 

 3          seen it being proposed in any of the 

 4          Governor's budgets.  I think it should be a 

 5          priority.  And I was wondering what your 

 6          opinion is as the chancellor of CUNY.

 7                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  So if I have -- 

 8          so yes, I'm in favor of more support for 

 9          students, number one.  But if I had to 

10          prioritize where that support would come, 

11          graduate TAP would not be at the top of my 

12          list.  As I mentioned before, only 8 percent 

13          of -- CUNY represented only 8 percent of the 

14          graduate TAP funds expended before, because 

15          many of our students didn't qualify for it.

16                 At the top of our list I would put 

17          extending the number of semesters for which 

18          TAP is available.  Right now, less than Pell.  

19          And students tend to burn through their TAP 

20          funds.  So that would be high on my list.  

21                 Another item high on my list which is 

22          not a direct but I believe it's an important 

23          indirect support of students is the problem I 

24          mentioned before, of a $50 million cost that 


 1          we are incurring because TAP does not cover 

 2          the full cost of tuition.  That would be 

 3          money we could invest in services and 

 4          programs to support students.

 5                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MALLIOTAKIS:  So perhaps 

 6          increasing the awards for TAP, so that way 

 7          the CUNY system wouldn't have to absorb that 

 8          credit you mentioned earlier, would be a 

 9          priority?

10                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Right, that 

11          would be -- that's high on my list.

12                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MALLIOTAKIS:  And what 

13          about expanding the income eligibility 

14          threshold so more of the middle-class 

15          families can qualify?  Because right now -- 

16          well, it hasn't been increased since the year 

17          2000, and that's 16 years ago.  

18                 I mean, it really, I think, should be 

19          modernized, that schedule.  And right now the 

20          cap is at $80,000 household income, which 

21          when you take the other costs of living in 

22          the State of New York that are continuing to 

23          rise, you know, I think that perhaps we 

24          should be modernizing that number.  My 


 1          proposal would be $100,000.  But, you know, 

 2          if you're a family of four children to put 

 3          through college, you can't do so on $80,000 

 4          household income, in addition to a mortgage 

 5          and other expenses.

 6                 So I just want to know what your 

 7          opinion would be and if we would see more 

 8          CUNY students be eligible if that threshold 

 9          was increased.

10                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  You know, I'd 

11          have to look at the data to see where that 

12          would fall on my list of priorities, but I 

13          think it's worth looking at if it hasn't been 

14          changed in 16 years.

15                 But I think the first two that I 

16          mentioned, increasing the level to pay the 

17          full cost of tuition and expanding the number 

18          of semesters of TAP availability, would still 

19          be first and second on my list.

20                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MALLIOTAKIS:  Okay, 

21          great.  Thank you for sharing your opinion.

22                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Thank you.

23                 SENATOR LaVALLE:  Senator Stavisky.

24                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  Thank you, 


 1          Chancellor.

 2                 I think I heard you say, in response 

 3          to the question about whether the 

 4          $240 million would be sufficient to cover the 

 5          collective bargaining requirements, you said 

 6          that would be sufficient.

 7                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  You can check 

 8          the record, of course, but I don't think 

 9          that's what I said.

10                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  That's why I'm 

11          asking the question.

12                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  I think I said 

13          it would certainly be a help.

14                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  It would be 

15          helpful.

16                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Yeah.

17                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  But that 

18          $240 million is contingent upon the city 

19          assuming the 30 percent of the cost of the 

20          college -- of CUNY, which initially, 

21          obviously, the state took over during the 

22          fiscal crises earlier -- 10, 12 years ago, 

23          originally.

24                 Would the current downturn in the 


 1          economy -- we see the stock market not being 

 2          as vigorous as we would perhaps like -- how 

 3          is any economic difficulty going to affect 

 4          this entire program?  Is this going to 

 5          present additional problems in terms of 

 6          providing the services that we want to see?

 7                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Any reduction in 

 8          CUNY's budget would certainly affect the 

 9          programs that we offer today.  And in fact, 

10          as I hope I have argued, and even more so 

11          hope it's convincing, that an additional 

12          investment in CUNY is necessary to provide 

13          the kinds of services that our students 

14          need -- who often face greater challenges 

15          than the population of college students at 

16          large -- to succeed.  

17                 And so we need to do more things like 

18          ASAP, we need to do more things like 

19          effective remediation programs like CUNY 

20          Start and Summer Start.  We need to hire 

21          many, many more academic advisors -- which 

22          is, by the way, one of the, I think, most 

23          important elements of success of ASAP, is the 

24          fact that those students, there are far fewer 


 1          students per advisor in that program.

 2                 So we need to make more investments to 

 3          do that kind of thing, I think.  Certainly 

 4          not less.

 5                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  And I'm delighted 

 6          that you spoke about ASAP, because I've asked 

 7          that question to your predecessors, and I'm 

 8          absolutely convinced it's something that 

 9          needs to be replicated, not eliminated.

10                 Two quick questions.  You mentioned 

11          nearly a thousand new faculty.  Are they 

12          full-time or adjuncts?

13                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Full-time.

14                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  Full-time.

15                 And lastly, the critical maintenance 

16          issue.  I represent two of your facilities, 

17          Queens College and Queensborough.  They're 

18          both in my Senate district.  But I'm very 

19          familiar with the entire CUNY -- all of the 

20          CUNY campuses, and many of them are crumbling 

21          because they were built so many years ago.  

22          And critical maintenance is not sufficient to 

23          put them into the position where students are 

24          going to be safe in these buildings.


 1                 So how do you see the capital money -- 

 2          how essential or how critical is the capital 

 3          money versus the critical maintenance?  

 4          Because critical maintenance obviously cannot 

 5          be used for new construction.

 6                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Yeah, it -- this 

 7          would be a very difficult choice to make on 

 8          choosing one above the other.  I think the 

 9          critical maintenance money gets a little bit 

10          of an edge because these are facilities that 

11          we already own, that we need to make 

12          improvements in to keep them functioning.  So 

13          that is absolutely essential.

14                 And as you know, if you don't make 

15          progress on a backlog of deferred 

16          maintenance, it only gets worse.

17                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  Exactly.

18                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  And so we've 

19          been making progress, and I certainly hope 

20          that we can continue to.

21                 But for our students to be graduating 

22          in health professions and STEM disciplines 

23          and in other areas where some of the best 

24          opportunities are for them, they have to have 


 1          the same kinds of facilities, the same kinds 

 2          of lab space, the same kinds of tools that 

 3          students at competing universities do.  And 

 4          this can't be done by retrofitting a 

 5          hundred-year-old building, in many cases.  

 6          And so the kinds of buildings that we've been 

 7          building are often science and technology 

 8          buildings, and that has to be new 

 9          construction.  

10                 If I could follow up quickly on two 

11          things.  One, the full-time faculty.  These 

12          996 were full-time, and that's a huge, hugely 

13          important investment.  

14                 But if you look over time at the ratio 

15          of full-time and adjunct faculty, we're still 

16          way below where we were earlier in terms of 

17          (A) the absolute number of full-time faculty, 

18          but certainly the percentage of full-time 

19          faculty to the total professoriate.  So 996 

20          is a good start, but we need to continue 

21          doing that, especially when, as I mentioned 

22          earlier, we added 55,000 students over the 

23          last decade to CUNY.

24                 The second thing I would say is that 


 1          since you mentioned one of the campuses you 

 2          represent, that I neglected to mention that 

 3          my colleague, President FÈlix Matos 

 4          RodrÌguez, is here, in case there's a special 

 5          question for Queens College.  But he's here 

 6          to support me, because he knows I need it.

 7                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  Having gone to 

 8          graduate school there, I appreciate Queens 

 9          College.

10                 Last question.  Of the 996 new 

11          faculty, presumably none of them have a 

12          contract.  Do they have a contract?

13                 Let me rephrase the question.  Has it 

14          been difficult to recruit faculty because of 

15          the collective bargaining issues that have 

16          not been resolved in the last five or six 

17          years?

18                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  So I'm not 

19          directly involved in recruiting faculty; I've 

20          hired six presidents, I'm going to hire four 

21          more this year.  Both CUNY's budget situation 

22          and particularly some of the issues discussed 

23          with Chair Glick and Chair LaValle earlier 

24          are certainly -- they are extremely important 


 1          issues in any discussion.  

 2                 And I would say that equally important 

 3          is our failure to reach an agreement with our 

 4          faculty, and certainly something that the 

 5          people that I'm recruiting are concerned 

 6          about.

 7                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  Thank you.

 8                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you.

 9                 Assembly.

10                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.

11                 Mr. Lupinacci.

12                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  Good 

13          afternoon, Chancellor.

14                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Hi.

15                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  I know we've 

16          mentioned about the thousand new full-time 

17          faculty.  Could you just give us a little 

18          overview in terms of what were the major 

19          areas CUNY hired in the past several years?

20                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  You mean the 

21          disciplines for the thousand?

22                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  Yes.

23                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  I can't.  I'd be 

24          happy to get it to you, but I can't tell you 


 1          what it is.

 2                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  Okay.  And I 

 3          guess this was just leading into some 

 4          programs you guys see in your upcoming budget 

 5          and how successful some of the remedial 

 6          programs have been.  I don't know if you 

 7          could just speak a little bit about that, 

 8          because I just wanted to see if some of the 

 9          thousand that were hired went to remediation, 

10          whether it was in mathematics or writing.  

11          And, you know, just see how successful 

12          programs have been in that.

13                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Again, I'll have 

14          to get you the information on where they 

15          went, because I can't comment.  I don't know 

16          if any of my colleagues behind me have that 

17          handy, but I'd be happy to get that to you.

18                 We have continued to make investments 

19          in the programs that address remediation.  We 

20          are doubling the number of students who 

21          participate in CUNY Start, which is a 

22          specific program which costs $75 but in most 

23          cases we remit that cost, so it costs the 

24          students very little, and try to get their 


 1          remedial needs out of the way.

 2                 I can tell you that 408 of those are 

 3          at community colleges, but I still can't tell 

 4          you what disciplines.

 5                 So that's an area where we've been 

 6          making additional investments.  Chancellor 

 7          Zimpher mentioned earlier different 

 8          strategies on trying to overcome what is the 

 9          most significant challenge that we have with 

10          developmental needs, and that's in 

11          mathematics.  And we are similarly 

12          experimenting, piloting programs from the 

13          Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of 

14          Teaching, and Quantways and Statways, to try 

15          to find other ways to help our students get 

16          the math that they will need in their degree 

17          program and to be successful later, but that 

18          have higher success rates.

19                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  And just in 

20          terms of -- I know you've seen a significant 

21          increase, about 5 percent or about, you said, 

22          13,000 students, in terms of the past several 

23          years, in terms of an increase.  Do you think 

24          the students are better prepared coming into 


 1          CUNY or less prepared or the same as they've 

 2          been the past few years?

 3                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Over the last 

 4          few years I would probably say we haven't 

 5          seen much difference.  If you look at the 

 6          percentage of students who present with 

 7          remedial education needs, the percentage has 

 8          not changed that much. 

 9                 So given that we've grown, the 

10          absolute number has probably gone up, but the 

11          percentage seems to be about the same.  It's 

12          about 80 percent of our community colleges.

13                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  Thank you very 

14          much.

15                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.

16                 Senator?

17                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you very 

18          much.  

19                 Senator Diane Savino.

20                 SENATOR SAVINO:  Thank you, Senator 

21          Young.

22                 Good afternoon, Chancellor.

23                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Good afternoon.

24                 SENATOR SAVINO:  Not to belabor the 


 1          point, I want to go back to the outstanding 

 2          contracts, just so I understand.

 3                 In your testimony you said that 

 4          they've been working without a contract for 

 5          more than five years and thus far you have 

 6          been -- the university has been unable to 

 7          reach an agreement.  Can you shed some light 

 8          on why?  What is getting in the way of 

 9          settling these contracts?

10                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  I'm not sure how 

11          much I can go into this in this setting --

12                 SENATOR SAVINO:  Without revealing 

13          trade secrets, of course.

14                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  I'm sorry?

15                 SENATOR SAVINO:  Without revealing 

16          trade secrets, of course.

17                 Well, what seems -- is it there's not 

18          enough money to settle it?  I'm assuming the 

19          CUNY unions are likely going to achieve 

20          something with respect to the citywide 

21          pattern.  You know, there's -- generally, 

22          pattern bargaining kind of stretches across 

23          all the municipal unions, so I'm assuming 

24          that would be somewhere around that.


 1                 So there's two questions I have.  One, 

 2          what seems to getting in the way of settling 

 3          a contract?  And two, is the $240 million 

 4          that's referenced in your testimony, would 

 5          that be sufficient to cover the pattern 

 6          that's already been established, or is that 

 7          insufficient?

 8                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  You know, my 

 9          recollection is that the 240 represents a 

10          number that is very close what would be -- 

11          I'm just going to lay this out.  My 

12          understanding of this, if you took a 

13          4 percent increase in 2010 and moved it 

14          forward, the total commitment for the 

15          retroactive component would be about 

16          240 million for the PSC.  It wouldn't be for 

17          the total faculty -- or total staff at CUNY.

18                 SENATOR SAVINO:  Right, because you 

19          also have DC 37 outstanding.

20                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  So I think 

21          that's a pretty close approximation of that 

22          number.

23                 SENATOR SAVINO:  But do you have a 

24          sense of what all of the outstanding 


 1          contracts could potentially cost?

 2                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Well, again, if 

 3          you --

 4                 SENATOR SAVINO:  If we adhere to the 

 5          pattern, the existing pattern that's been 

 6          established by the other municipal unions.

 7                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Well, which 

 8          pattern, the state or the city pattern?

 9                 SENATOR SAVINO:  City.  Assuming, if 

10          it was the city pattern.

11                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  I don't think we 

12          follow the city pattern.  But, I mean, we 

13          have in the past followed, I am told -- 

14          obviously I've been here a little over a 

15          year, and we haven't had a contract in over 

16          five years --

17                 SENATOR SAVINO:  Somebody's coming.

18                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  -- but we have 

19          followed a sort of a combination between the 

20          city and the state in the past.

21                 And this gentleman who has showed up 

22          to my left is the vice chancellor for budget 

23          and finance at CUNY.

24                 SENATOR SAVINO:  So I guess I should 


 1          ask him.

 2                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  I'm not sure if 

 3          he's going to further my goal of not 

 4          completely answering your question or whether 

 5          he's going to answer it.  

 6                 (Laughter.)

 7                 SENATOR SAVINO:  By the way, if you 

 8          don't know the answer, that's fine.  I mean, 

 9          it's just -- you're trying to figure out like 

10          is the amount of money that you're claiming 

11          is sufficient, or even that the Governor is 

12          proposing, or CUNY is proposing, is it 

13          sufficient to cover retroactivity of all of 

14          these bargaining units, assuming you have a 

15          ballpark figure that you think it is?

16                 VICE CHANCELLOR SAPIENZA:  Yeah.  

17          During last year's legislative session, our 

18          faculty and Professional Staff Congress had 

19          quoted a number of $240 million was needed 

20          for retroactive increases.  But since then, 

21          now a whole year has gone by, so the 

22          retroactive increases are actually more, 

23          because we have to cover another year.

24                 So following that pattern, following 


 1          that number that was put out there last year 

 2          by the union, the retroactive costs for all 

 3          of our unions will now be well over 

 4          $300 million.

 5                 SENATOR SAVINO:  That's important for 

 6          us to know.

 7                 And finally, I would be remiss if I 

 8          did not bring up my favorite subject with 

 9          you, and that's of course the Murphy 

10          Institute.  As you know, the Governor's 

11          budget includes $500,000 for the maintenance 

12          of the Murphy Institute.  The Legislature put 

13          up a million and a half last year; we are 

14          advocating to do the same thing this year.

15                 But, you know, I continue to push, 

16          along with other members of the 

17          Legislature -- I know Assemblywoman Glick is 

18          a big supporter of this -- for making the 

19          Murphy Institute a separate school inside 

20          CUNY.  You know, it's growing, it is the 

21          institution where working people are able to 

22          come later on in life, achieve a degree, 

23          elevate their education, improve their 

24          economic standards.  And I really think it's 


 1          something we need to continue this discussion 

 2          to make it a free-standing school inside of 

 3          CUNY, because every year they shouldn't have 

 4          to come, hat in hand, to the Legislature to, 

 5          you know, demand money.  We need to find a 

 6          way to provide stable, secure funding for the 

 7          Murphy Institute.

 8                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  I -- thank you, 

 9          Senator.  I think our schools would tell you 

10          that their budgets are probably no more 

11          secure.  

12                 I welcome the investment that the 

13          Legislature has made, and thank you.  As you 

14          know from our conversations, I support the 

15          work of the Murphy Institute.  We're making 

16          additional investments in hires this year.  

17          And we will continue to support and look for 

18          ways for it continue to do an even better job 

19          of what it does.  So I welcome the 

20          investment, and I thank you for your --

21                 SENATOR SAVINO:  You're welcome.

22                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  -- support, and 

23          we'll consider to take that under advisement.

24                 SENATOR SAVINO:  And hopefully 


 1          post-budget we can have that meeting of all 

 2          the stakeholders to figure out what we can do 

 3          to support the Murphy Institute.

 4                 Thank you.

 5                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Thank you.

 6                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.

 7                 Assemblywoman Glick.

 8                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  I wanted to ask 

 9          a follow-up.  

10                 In the last budget there was an 

11          inclusion of a STEM scholarship for the 

12          students who were in the top 10 percent of 

13          their high schools who wanted to pursue a 

14          STEM discipline.  And I'm wondering whether 

15          CUNY has had a substantial increase, some 

16          interest, are people coming to you and saying 

17          "We had no idea"?  

18                 I'm just trying to gauge how effective 

19          that program is, whether it has driven more 

20          of the top 10 percent students to the City 

21          University or not.

22                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  The timing last 

23          year made recruitment difficult for the 

24          following academic year.  I'm told that we 


 1          were able to get about 80 students last year 

 2          in the STEM scholarship program, and an 

 3          additional 30 this year, I think.  So I think 

 4          there's obviously room to grow as it becomes 

 5          better known.

 6                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Thank you.

 7                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you.

 8                 Senator Krueger.

 9                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Hi.

10                 I know many of us have asked 

11          variations on the question, but I'll just try 

12          to be as direct as I can.  CUNY has what 

13          percentage low-income students of color?

14                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  I may have to 

15          unpack this a little bit.  Our numbers show 

16          that it's about 38 percent of our students 

17          report households of less than $20,000.  

18                 Students of color, I think there are 

19          about -- just less than 22 white -- 

20          22 percent white students at CUNY today.  And 

21          I could give you a breakdown on demographics, 

22          but --

23                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  That's okay.

24                 So if the Governor's proposal to cut 


 1          $485 million out of your budget became real, 

 2          then we would be taking 30 percent of the 

 3          funding out of the higher education 

 4          university that's serving disproportionately 

 5          the lowest income, largest population of 

 6          students of color in the state.  Would that 

 7          be correct to say?

 8                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Well, I have 

 9          not -- let me just say I have not heard a 

10          representation that the 485 million would be 

11          a cut.  The original proposal was a shift in 

12          the funding source.  

13                 But just hypothetically, if you were 

14          to say a $485 million cut, it would be an 

15          existential threat to CUNY.  That is such an 

16          enormous figure that it would represent many 

17          of our colleges.  And you couldn't possibly, 

18          in any rational way, approach a reduction at 

19          that level.  It would affect so many of our 

20          students.

21                 And so I don't think that has been 

22          proposed, and so I'm hesitant to even react 

23          to it.  But hypothetically, yes, that would 

24          be -- it would have a huge impact on CUNY and 


 1          on the students we serve.

 2                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Well, the state 

 3          hasn't proposed an equivalent cut for the 

 4          SUNY system, right?  Only for CUNY.  Correct?

 5                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  The proposal to 

 6          shift support from the state to the city is 

 7          only, to my understanding, for CUNY.

 8                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Does the state have 

 9          the power to tell the City of New York where 

10          it should increase its budget allocation to 

11          CUNY?

12                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  It's not the 

13          area of law I practice.  I suspect there are 

14          people who could answer that question.  I 

15          think there may be some disagreement about 

16          that.

17                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  My current reading 

18          is that the state doesn't have the power to 

19          tell the City of New York to shift 

20          $485 million of its budget money to CUNY, so 

21          I do interpret this as a proposed cut to 

22          CUNY.  

23                 Let's say I'm right.  What do you do 

24          on Day 1 of the new budget year when you 


 1          don't have that $485 million?

 2                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  That is -- I 

 3          haven't laid out what the scenario would be 

 4          yet, because I can't imagine that that is a 

 5          possibility.  I can't imagine that -- I don't 

 6          think that was the proposal, and I can't 

 7          imagine it is a possibility.  It would be -- 

 8          it would represent an enormous reduction in 

 9          the capacity of CUNY.  

10                 As I said, you could -- numerous 

11          colleges, depending on how you did this, 

12          would have to be closed, or you'd take a 30 

13          percent decrease across the entire system, 

14          which would -- I can't even imagine how 

15          devastating that kind of a reduction would be 

16          and how many of our students it would affect 

17          adversely.  So -- but again, I don't -- I 

18          don't think that was the proposal, and so 

19          I'm -- I'm certainly not planning for that.

20                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  And you have 275,000 

21          students in the CUNY system?

22                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Do we have 

23          275,000?  Yes, we --

24                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Is that the right 


 1          number?

 2                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  -- have 275,000 

 3          degree-seeking students this year, and about 

 4          an equal number of adult and continuing ed 

 5          students.

 6                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  So I just did a 

 7          little math.  If you did have to take the 

 8          $485 million cut over 275,000 students, you 

 9          would have to potentially raise each of their 

10          tuition by $1800 a year.  You think they 

11          could do that?

12                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  I haven't done 

13          the math, so I'll have to take your word for 

14          it.

15                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Can you imagine 

16          telling everybody it's $1800 more per year?

17                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  No, I don't 

18          think with our student body, that would be 

19          feasible.  And it would have to start by you 

20          approving it.

21                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  And there's been 

22          back-and-forth around whether $240 million 

23          gets you how far towards your contract 

24          negotiations.  Is it your understanding that 


 1          this was resolved for SUNY with state money 

 2          in previous years?

 3                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  It is my 

 4          understanding that in 2010 there was a 

 5          4 percent increase provided to SUNY faculty 

 6          and staff supported by the state, yes.  That 

 7          is my understanding.

 8                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  There was a 

 9          reference to that there was, once upon a 

10          time, that the city did pay more towards 

11          CUNY, and that was -- I think my colleague 

12          misspoke, that was more like 40 years ago to 

13          45 years ago now.

14                 Do you think there's a justification 

15          for the state government to have a different 

16          set of policies for students going to higher 

17          ed that live in five counties of New York 

18          versus the other 57 counties of New York?

19                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  You know, I 

20          tried to make clear in my testimony, I don't 

21          think that this is an issue that I will get 

22          to resolve.  And so I'm not sure that I'm 

23          going to weigh in with an opinion about 

24          the -- whether the state can have two sets of 


 1          policies for CUNY and SUNY financing.  

 2                 They have two different makeups now.  

 3          You were inquiring earlier about governance.  

 4          SUNY has institutional boards for its 

 5          community college boards, which the majority 

 6          of the appointees are from local sponsors.  

 7          CUNY has no such provisions, they have no 

 8          local boards.  The majority of the governance 

 9          of CUNY is from the CUNY Board of Trustees.  

10          Whether it's the community colleges or the 

11          senior colleges, the majority of those 

12          appointments are made by the governor -- 

13          10 -- and five by the mayor, with also an 

14          elected voting student member and a nonvoting 

15          faculty member.

16                 So there are significant differences 

17          already.  As you know better than I, there 

18          are differences dating from '79 and earlier 

19          in the ways that the funding is distributed 

20          for CUNY.  But I think the legislation is 

21          instructive, and I think on its face the 

22          legislation recognizes the obligation of the 

23          state to support public higher education, 

24          whether it's upstate New York or whether it's 


 1          in New York City.  And of course the state 

 2          has done that for many years.

 3                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 4                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Any more from the 

 5          Assembly?

 6                 Okay.  So, Chancellor, I appreciate 

 7          the opportunity to spend some time with you 

 8          earlier today.  I really enjoyed it.

 9                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Thank you.

10                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  I'm glad to hear 

11          that you have a farming background and know 

12          how to milk a cow, being from Nebraska 

13          originally.  And so I did have a couple of 

14          questions.

15                 You talk about the community colleges 

16          and the abysmal graduation rate of as low as 

17          20 percent.  And I'm very happy to see in 

18          your testimony that you have undertaken a 

19          major initiative to address that fact, called 

20          the ASAP program, which provides, from what I 

21          can tell, as you outlined, very intensive 

22          care and attention to the students that seem 

23          to be failing right now.  Because as you 

24          point out, they're investing in higher 


 1          education, they have the debt, they have the 

 2          bills, and then they don't get the education, 

 3          and so it's a double whammy.

 4                 I was wondering what the graduation 

 5          rate overall for the 275,000 CUNY students 

 6          is, because I didn't see it in the testimony.  

 7          So if you could explain to us what that 

 8          actually is.

 9                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  So on average, 

10          we typically measure in four- and six-year 

11          graduation rates for senior colleges 

12          nationally, and two- and three-year 

13          graduation rates for community colleges.  

14                 The four-year graduation rate 

15          overall -- and I'll get you these numbers 

16          specifically in case my memory is a little 

17          off -- is about 45 percent; for community 

18          colleges, it's around 20, a little less.

19                 Important to note, though, I think, 

20          that the urban community colleges across the 

21          country's average graduation rate is about 

22          15 percent.  So this is a challenge that is 

23          not unique to New York, certainly not unique 

24          to CUNY, and we must find a way to address 


 1          the needs of those students.  Right now, 

 2          unfortunately, too many of them come with 

 3          developmental education needs.  We need to 

 4          continue to try to figure out how to address 

 5          that, both at the middle school and high 

 6          school level, at the transition, and once 

 7          they get to college.  And we have a lot of 

 8          successful programs in place, and we're 

 9          growing.

10                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  So how does the 

11          45 percent compare nationally?

12                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Well, I don't 

13          know what the -- first of all, you can't 

14          compare it -- you have to compare these 

15          figures to like places.  I suspect Harvard's 

16          graduation rate in four years is over 

17          90 percent, but they start with a student 

18          profile that is very different than the 

19          profile of students who come to CUNY.

20                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  So --

21                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  So we compare to 

22          similar public institutions.  I'd be happy to 

23          get you the comparisons that give you a peer 

24          comparison, to show how we do.  


 1                 But as I acknowledge in my testimony, 

 2          this is an area that we see as one of the 

 3          most important challenges we face.  We're in 

 4          no way alone on this, if you look at public 

 5          higher education across the country, with its 

 6          urban community college or the large state 

 7          universities all over.  They all have 

 8          graduation rates that are not what you would 

 9          hope they would be and what I would hope they 

10          would be.

11                 For many years, public higher 

12          education in this country focused on 

13          affordability and access, I would suggest 

14          almost to the exclusion of success.  It was 

15          all about providing affordable access.  And 

16          more recently we have, at CUNY and everywhere 

17          else, I think put considerably more attention 

18          on timely degree completion and what kinds of 

19          things we can do to support that.

20                 So if you said to me what could we do 

21          that would help you improve your graduation 

22          rates more than anything, well, one is the 

23          adequate financial support for students -- I 

24          mean, these are all components of ASAP -- 


 1          that will allow them to attend full-time, 

 2          because it just -- you know, it makes sense 

 3          that if you are in a senior college and 

 4          you're taking 15 credits a semester, your 

 5          chances of graduating in a timely way are 

 6          much better than if you're going part-time 

 7          because you can't afford it.

 8                 But then there are investments in 

 9          full-time faculty, which I think are 

10          incredibly important and we've just made.  

11          And another would be academic advising and 

12          the other kinds of support.  The best funded 

13          universities, certainly all elite 

14          universities, have considerably more 

15          resources invested in the support of their 

16          students.  It's ironic that at CUNY we 

17          probably need that investment more than at 

18          most colleges and universities, but we don't 

19          have resources to do it.

20                 So I think those are the kinds of 

21          things that could make the greatest 

22          difference for us.

23                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you.  I was 

24          interested to hear you mention middle- and 


 1          high school students, and I was wondering 

 2          what your relationship is with the city 

 3          school system and how does that work, and are 

 4          there ways that that could be improved?

 5                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  First of all, we 

 6          have a deep and long-standing relationship 

 7          with the city schools, the DOE.  We have 

 8          about 25,000 students in Early College and 

 9          College Now programs, where either on 

10          weekends or during the class day we're 

11          providing an opportunity to take college 

12          courses.  

13                 We have programs throughout the city 

14          where we offer college courses and in fact 

15          allow an associate degree at the same time 

16          you can get a high school degree.  So there 

17          are many, many programs, it's an impressive 

18          array of programs and partnerships with the 

19          city.  And we are working with them all the 

20          time to see how we can better address their 

21          issues with preparation and proficiency of 

22          students.  

23                 Ours -- Chancellor Zimpher said this 

24          is a challenge that all of us own.  There is 


 1          no throwing anything over the wall.  We 

 2          produce 30 percent of the teachers for 

 3          New York City.  Six of our colleges are in 

 4          the top colleges in terms of the number of 

 5          teachers hired each year in New York.  So we 

 6          have a role in both making sure that students 

 7          are prepared through sending great teachers 

 8          to the high schools and the middle schools, 

 9          and then also addressing remediation needs 

10          once they arrive.

11                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you for that.  

12                 You've made it abundantly clear you 

13          don't like the Governor's funding proposal as 

14          far as, you know, the structure that he's set 

15          up.  But I also wanted to ask about the 

16          tuition increase, because you're in favor of 

17          the tuition increase.  And as you know, it 

18          would be annually for the next four years.

19                 So what assurance could the State 

20          legislature have that that tuition increase 

21          would be used on enhancing student outcomes?  

22          What are the plans for that funding if it 

23          were to occur?

24                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Well, I can tell 


 1          you -- maybe the best predictor of future 

 2          behavior is past performance.  And with the 

 3          last four years, the first four years of 

 4          investment in this, the program -- most of 

 5          the money went to either hiring faculty -- as 

 6          I mentioned, almost a thousand new full-time 

 7          faculty -- and investing in student support 

 8          programs, advising and others.

 9                 We would continue to do the same; in 

10          fact, we would welcome language that is 

11          suggested now that focuses the investment on 

12          those needs.  As I mentioned, we are not 

13          planning to raise tuition for community 

14          colleges, which is 100,000 of our 275,000 

15          students.  But the funding that we need going 

16          forward is to invest in our students' 

17          success.  

18                 And by the way, I think probably the 

19          single most important element of student 

20          success is having highly qualified faculty 

21          who are working with those students.  And so 

22          not only do we need to be in a position to 

23          hire new faculty, as we have, we need to be 

24          in a position to support those faculty we 


 1          already have.

 2                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you.  

 3                 And you looked a little puzzled, but I 

 4          meant the Governor's plan that would have -- 

 5          because the CUNY Board of Trustees is 

 6          appointed by the city and they're one-third, 

 7          they should pay 30 percent of the cost, and 

 8          that's what I was referencing.  And that's 

 9          something that you said that would be 

10          problematic for you.  Correct?

11                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  The -- I'm 

12          sorry, what would be problematic?

13                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  The $485 million.

14                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  It would be 

15          devastating if it were a reduction in CUNY's 

16          budget, I think is what I said.

17                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Right.  And so 

18          the -- you know, and so just -- 

19          the Governor's rationale is that because a 

20          third of the CUNY Board of Trustees is 

21          appointed by the city, the city should take 

22          on some financial responsibility for the CUNY 

23          system.

24                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Yes, I 


 1          understand that position.

 2                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Yup.  So thank you.

 3                 Thank you very much.

 4                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Thank you.

 5                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.

 6                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you.  I think 

 7          we're done.  So we appreciate your being 

 8          here.

 9                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Okay, thank you 

10          very much.

11                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you very 

12          much, Chancellor.

13                 CHANCELLOR MILLIKEN:  Thank you.

14                 (Pause.)

15                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  New York State 

16          Education Department, Commissioner MaryEllen 

17          Elia.

18                 Good afternoon.

19                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Good afternoon. 

20                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  I'm glad; I thought 

21          we'd have gotten to night by now.

22                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Hello.  It's a 

23          pleasure to be here with you all again.

24                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Again.


 1                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Again.

 2                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  So good afternoon, 

 3          Chairs Young, Farrell, and Glick, and members 

 4          of the Senate and Assembly that are here 

 5          today.  As was just pointed out, I'm 

 6          MaryEllen Elia, the commissioner of 

 7          education.  

 8                 I am joined by Executive Deputy 

 9          Commissioner Beth Berlin, Senior Deputy 

10          Commissioner Jhone Ebert, Deputy Commissioner 

11          for the Office of Higher Education John 

12          D'Agati, Deputy Commissioner for the Office 

13          of the Professions Doug Lentivech, and we 

14          have with us Kevin Smith, who is deputy 

15          commissioner for access.

16                 You have my full testimony before you.  

17          I know you have many people in the room to 

18          hear from, I'm sure, so I'll try to be brief 

19          so we leave time for any questions you may 

20          have.

21                 As you can see on Slides 2 through 4, 

22          we know from multiple indicators that college 

23          access and completion matters.  Higher 

24          college attainment translates to higher 


 1          earnings and lower unemployment rates.  And 

 2          we know that jobs that require post-secondary 

 3          education will grow faster than occupations 

 4          that require a high school diploma or less.  

 5          That is why a major priority of the Regents' 

 6          agenda relates to increasing access to higher 

 7          education, particularly for the 

 8          underrepresented students, and seeing these 

 9          students through to completion of their 

10          degrees.  

11                 As you can see on Slides 5 through 9, 

12          the Regents request an increase of 

13          $9.75 million for the Higher Education 

14          Opportunity Programs.  These programs serve 

15          students that are at the highest risk of 

16          either not attending college or not 

17          completing a degree.  And they all have a 

18          demonstrated record of success, including a 

19          92 percent graduation rate for Liberty 

20          Partnerships seniors in 2015, 81 percent of 

21          whom went on to college.  

22                 Our focus on access and completion 

23          extended to the Workgroup to Improve Outcomes 

24          for Boys and Young Men of Color led by Regent 


 1          Lester Young.  Among the group's 

 2          recommendations, highlighted on Slides 10 and 

 3          11, was a request for $8 million to support 

 4          expansion of the Teacher Opportunity Corps, 

 5          which is focused on recruitment and 

 6          preparation of teachers of color.  

 7                 I want to thank you for your 

 8          investments in early college high schools and 

 9          P-TECH schools.  As you can see on Slides 12 

10          through 15, these programs have been 

11          extremely successful.  We urge you, however, 

12          to make these programs permanent in state law 

13          rather than forcing them to rely on 

14          year-to-year funding decisions in the 

15          State Budget.

16                 The districts, BOCES, colleges, and 

17          business partners involved in the 

18          partnerships make multiyear commitments to 

19          the success of the students, and the state 

20          should too.  As you know, the Regents have 

21          been advocates of the New York State DREAM 

22          Act, highlighted on Slide 16.  It's time for 

23          New York to stop punishing students for 

24          decisions that they had no control over, and 


 1          give them the opportunities to succeed that 

 2          they have earned.  

 3                 As you can see on Slide 17, the 

 4          Regents are also requesting that you make a 

 5          $10 million investment in Bridge programs to 

 6          enable out-of-school youth to obtain 

 7          essential basic skills.  

 8                 On Slide 18, we highlight the resource 

 9          needs of the department.  We're urgently 

10          seeking your support to ensure that the 

11          department is funded at a level that allows 

12          us to implement the critical laws that you 

13          passed.  

14                 For example, last year a new law was 

15          passed to address the troubling incidents of 

16          sexual assaults on college campuses.  SED was 

17          charged with conducting a new audit process 

18          which we had no experience with or capacity, 

19          really, to implement -- with no new 

20          resources.  At the same time, the other 

21          agencies charged with implementing other 

22          provisions of the law were provided 

23          $10 million for implementation.  This is not 

24          a sustainable model.  


 1                 On Slides 19 to 23, we provide you 

 2          with updates on the work of the Office of 

 3          Professions.  And I want to bring particular 

 4          attention to the issue of e-licensing on 

 5          Slide 23.  This is an issue of great 

 6          importance to the department.  In 2009, the 

 7          Legislature approved a 15 percent 

 8          registration fee increase so that we could 

 9          replace a 35-year-old COBOL-based licensing 

10          system and enhance our customer experience.  

11          And we again thank you for your bipartisan 

12          efforts to make these resources available to 

13          the department.  

14                 However, there was an effort to create 

15          a statewide licensing solution, and 

16          unfortunately those efforts have resulted in 

17          a product that cannot meet the needs of our 

18          complex processes.  The department requested 

19          authority to spend $4.3 million in existing 

20          funds we have on hand in the professions 

21          account to develop our own system, but 

22          unfortunately that authority was not provided 

23          in the proposed budget.  

24                 If this is not addressed in the 30-day 


 1          budget amendments, we request that your 

 2          one-house budgets provide this authority to 

 3          allow us to build a system to better serve 

 4          our constituents.  

 5                 Before I take your questions, I want 

 6          to again thank you for the opportunity to 

 7          discuss our priorities with you.  As I 

 8          mentioned at the Education budget hearing, 

 9          there has been a significant focus on 

10          economic development and infrastructure in 

11          the proposed budget.  However, if you do not 

12          invest in our education and our workforce 

13          pipeline, from pre-K through post-secondary 

14          education and the professions, then the 

15          investments in economic development and 

16          infrastructure will have a limited impact.  

17                 We need to both maintain and further 

18          strengthen our system of higher education, 

19          including the City and State University 

20          systems in New York, as we strive to assure 

21          broad access to affordable and high-quality 

22          opportunities for educational advancement.

23                 Thank you, and I look forward to our 

24          discussion.


 1                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you very 

 2          much.  

 3                 Assemblywoman Deborah Glick, chair.  

 4                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Good afternoon.  

 5                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Good afternoon.  

 6                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Last year we -- 

 7          over the last couple of years we've actually 

 8          added to the Opportunity Programs.  A few 

 9          years ago it was 3 percent, last year it was 

10          20 percent -- I see that you've asked for 

11          additional resources for these very important 

12          and very supportive programs for students.  

13                 I'm wondering, has all of the money 

14          gone out?  Is there a lag time?  And if we 

15          were to add additional resources, would that 

16          be to expand existing programs or would it be 

17          to add new programs at different 

18          institutions?

19                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  So right now our 

20          requests are specific to the programs.  For 

21          the Liberty Partnership program, which I 

22          pointed out has a very high percentage of 

23          students who have been successful -- 

24          92 percent have graduated from high school, 


 1          and then of those 92 percent a very high 

 2          percentage go right into college -- there 

 3          specifically is a $750,000 increase, or 

 4          2.5 percent, to the existing programs.  

 5                 So from the perspective of are we 

 6          expanding to new programs, we really feel 

 7          like there's much opportunity, in programs 

 8          where we really see performance is occurring, 

 9          to expand those programs and open them up to 

10          more students.  

11                 In the Science and Technology Entry 

12          Program, or the STEP program, we're asking 

13          for a $2.5 million increase to fully fund 

14          what is one currently partially funded -- to 

15          fund an additional five programs.  So those 

16          programs that are in place, we're asking to 

17          be able to expand those.  This would serve an 

18          additional 2,500 students in that program.  

19                 And by the way, both of those programs 

20          address the issues of middle- and high-school 

21          students.  So I know that that had come up, 

22          Senator Young, on the issue -- the questions 

23          that you asked Chancellor Milliken.  And we 

24          do believe that that is extremely important.  


 1          We have great success with those programs and 

 2          want to expand them.  

 3                 The Collegiate Science and Technology 

 4          Entry Program, or CSTEP, that's -- we're 

 5          requesting a $4 million increase to fully 

 6          fund the current partially funded programs, 

 7          and to fund an additional 17 programs.  And 

 8          again, that would expand it to 1,900 

 9          additional students.  

10                 The Higher Education Opportunity 

11          Program, which is a $2.5 million increase to 

12          raise support to $6,500 per student.  For 

13          current programs -- but for every dollar 

14          New York spends on the HEOP program, 

15          independent colleges have a $6 or often a 

16          higher match.  So when we put money into 

17          those programs, we're getting more out of 

18          that.  It serves over 4,600 students in 

19          53 programs.  

20                 And just for your information, in that 

21          program, 81 percent of the HEOP students 

22          graduate college.  

23                 Now you heard some of the difficulties 

24          that both SUNY and CUNY had in raising the 


 1          number of students that are graduating in 

 2          either a four-year graduation or a six-year 

 3          graduation rate.  But when you have programs 

 4          like this, what it's doing is it's actually 

 5          addressing the issues that Chancellor 

 6          Milliken talked about, which is providing 

 7          supports for students so that they can be 

 8          successful.

 9                 And then the Teacher Opportunity Corps 

10          is the last one that's included there.  It's 

11          an $8 million increase to support new and 

12          expand current programs, enhancing curriculum 

13          and recruitment and retention of teachers of 

14          color.  

15                 This is a huge issue for us.  We are 

16          going to face in New York severe shortages -- 

17          in some areas we do now -- but it is going to 

18          continue to get worse, and particularly for 

19          students of color.  This particular program, 

20          it's serving -- now, in six programs, we're 

21          serving 87 students, but 95 percent of those 

22          students are retained in the high-needs 

23          districts after five years of teaching there.

24                 So programs that have been successful 


 1          where we haven't expanded, we feel that the 

 2          best use of the funding, the additional 

 3          funding, is to take something that's been 

 4          already successful and expand it.

 5                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  In the past 

 6          there have been some lags in getting dollars 

 7          out the door prior to your arrival.  So what 

 8          I would ask now is, do we think we've reached 

 9          a point where whether it's an RFP or 

10          whatever, that the timing has now been 

11          adjusted so that the programs can retain the 

12          talented staff that they have when there's a 

13          gap?  

14                 The programs that are on the ground 

15          run out of money in order to retain staff, 

16          and then there's this gap, and they are 

17          frustrated and upset and they lose people and 

18          then -- so this fit-and-start, if you will.  

19          There was some understanding that years ago, 

20          when our budgets would -- we'd never know 

21          when they would actually be passed.  We're 

22          now on a trajectory where there's a lot of 

23          certainty about when the budget will pass, 

24          and I'm just wondering whether the agency has 


 1          been able to adjust to that so that there is 

 2          in fact no longer going to be -- have the 

 3          dollars gone out the door?  

 4                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Well, I'm going to 

 5          ask John D'Agati to give you some specific 

 6          information, but I can tell you the 

 7          fit-and-start deal is a major problem.  

 8                 And I think one of the things -- we've 

 9          got a couple of other programs we can also 

10          mention that relate to our students that are 

11          in high school still, and both the P-TECH 

12          program, the Early College High School, where 

13          I mentioned in my comments that if we don't 

14          let them know that that funding is coming 

15          every year, they have to wait for the budgets 

16          to pass.  And that's a major problem when so 

17          many people are investing as partners in 

18          these students, and they're never sure if 

19          they're going to be able to finish out the 

20          cohorts and make sure that the programs are 

21          complete.

22                 So John, if you could address the 

23          issue of where we are in terms of getting the 

24          money out.


 1                 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER D'AGATI:  I think 

 2          all of the Opportunity Programs are now -- 

 3          the funding is all flowing properly.  

 4                 I know that we've had delays when 

 5          there's a new RFP and then we're getting all 

 6          the approvals and getting it all cycled 

 7          through.  We are going to try to start 

 8          earlier in the process so that we have more 

 9          time allowed on the back end to have the RFP 

10          process, you know, go through -- have it go 

11          through the proper process but still get the 

12          money out on time.  

13                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Okay.  Last year 

14          we instituted a new program, the Foster Youth 

15          Initiative, and I'm wondering if that is 

16          again something that you have participated in 

17          and if there -- if money is going out.

18                 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER D'AGATI:  Yeah, 

19          it's in process.  I believe the money is 

20          starting to flow.  We're waiting for certain 

21          documents -- I think we're waiting for some 

22          documentation from SUNY, but the money that 

23          was allocated -- there was a specific amount 

24          of money, and it was a specific percentage of 


 1          money that would go to SUNY, a percentage to 

 2          CUNY, and a percentage to the independent 

 3          sector.  And the process is moving forward.  

 4          And the last I checked, we're just waiting 

 5          for certain documentation to come back and 

 6          the money would flow.

 7                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Okay.  As we're 

 8          looking at the potential for expanding that 

 9          program, are there particular pitfalls that 

10          we should be aware of in that it is new, and 

11          everything that's new takes some time to work 

12          out the kinks, as it were.  If we were to add 

13          to that initiative, for a new cohort of young 

14          people, could that be accommodated?

15                 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER D'AGATI:  Yes, but 

16          I would have to get back to you if there were 

17          specific pitfalls or things that we found 

18          along the way, which I can certainly look at.

19                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  I would very 

20          much like to know that, because we think it's 

21          an important arena and we want to be sure 

22          that -- these are young people who age out of 

23          foster care.  They sort of go off a cliff.

24                 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER D'AGATI:  Yeah.


 1                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  They had 

 2          housing, and they no longer have housing.  

 3          They, you know, were -- perhaps had some 

 4          supports to go to school, now they don't.  So 

 5          the whole point of this is to not pull the 

 6          rug out from under them when every other rug 

 7          has turned into a banana peel.  So this is 

 8          something that's of personal interest and 

 9          concern.  

10                 I know you're asking for more money 

11          for HEOP.  But in view of the fact that it is 

12          so successful as a program -- and I know you 

13          want to be reasonable, but what would you 

14          view as an outer limit of what could be 

15          scaled up in order -- so that if -- right 

16          now, I think you're seeking an additional 

17          2.5 million --  

18                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Right.

19                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  And I'm 

20          wondering if, from your conversations with 

21          different schools that are looking to add 

22          programs, in a perfect world where we're 

23          trying to address the supports in each of the 

24          different public systems and here in the 


 1          private institutions, could the agency handle 

 2          not a $2.5 million increase but a $5 million 

 3          increase?

 4                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Yes.  

 5                 And let me say, both of the 

 6          chancellors mentioned the issue of support 

 7          for people who are in their program, 

 8          guidance, and giving them supports as they're 

 9          going through the program.  And the HEOP 

10          program is one of those that we've seen a lot 

11          of support.  I've had the opportunity to talk 

12          to both of the chancellors as well as the 

13          independents, the deans and presidents, and 

14          all of them have said that as we can get the 

15          funding to them, then they're in a position 

16          to really get and push the agenda for more 

17          successful students graduating on time.  

18                 I think it's a huge issue for us.  We 

19          can handle getting that out.  We had, as you 

20          pointed out -- it is trying to create a 

21          balance of what the Regents are asking for.  

22          And we have other successful programs we also 

23          think should be advanced.

24                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Thank you.  


 1                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.  

 2                 Senator?

 3                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you.  

 4                 And it's always good to see you, 

 5          Commissioner. 

 6                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Thank you.  

 7                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  And we really 

 8          appreciate you being here today.  

 9                 It's interesting to hear you talk 

10          about college and career readiness and the 

11          different efforts underway to enhance those 

12          programs, which I fully support.  

13                 I do want to draw to your attention, 

14          however -- and you -- originally being in 

15          Western New York, you understand upstate 

16          very, very well.  And we certainly appreciate 

17          your commitment to the entire state in 

18          immersing yourself in so many critical 

19          issues.  

20                 I would still say to you, though, that 

21          we have a fundamental problem in New York 

22          State and especially in upstate areas, and 

23          maybe particularly in rural areas such as the 

24          ones that I represent, where there seems to 


 1          be a disconnect between what's being taught 

 2          in the public schools and what the local 

 3          job-market needs are.  

 4                 And there's almost been this cultural 

 5          evolvement over the past several years where 

 6          now parents believe that in order for their 

 7          children to succeed, they have to leave 

 8          New York State.  And we've seen our young 

 9          people leaving New York State, but also I 

10          think that that attitude unfortunately 

11          sometimes is in our school districts where 

12          our educators, teachers, and administrators 

13          almost encourage that.  

14                 And I teach a lot of "participation in 

15          government" classes, and so I go in and I'll 

16          always ask the kids, you know, how many of 

17          you plan on staying after you graduate.  And 

18          it's very alarming to see so many hands that 

19          don't go up, and there's just a few that say 

20          they want to stay in their communities.  And 

21          so I think we've got to turn that whole thing 

22          around.  

23                 I have manufacturers in my district 

24          that say, We are hungry for welders and 


 1          manufacturing technicians, and other 

 2          vocational careers and trades careers.  We 

 3          have a tremendous shortage of healthcare 

 4          professionals across the entire state.  And 

 5          those are all great careers that young people 

 6          can have.  And so how do we get over that 

 7          disconnect, that lack of communication, 

 8          between the business community locally and 

 9          getting that connection, finally, between the 

10          school districts and the jobs that are 

11          actually existing right now in New York 

12          State, and encouraging young people to say, 

13          Hey, I can stay here with my family, I can 

14          have a successful career, I can be here right 

15          in my community and make a difference?  How 

16          do we change that around?

17                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Well, I think 

18          there's several factors that are really 

19          critical for us.  

20                 One of the things that I brought up in 

21          my testimony when I was here last week was 

22          the issue of expansion of career and 

23          technical programming to not just a few high 

24          schools or a few of our BOCES programs.  One 


 1          of the most successful programs that we have 

 2          in the state that actually is becoming a 

 3          national model is the P-TECH program, which 

 4          takes students and really connects them not 

 5          only with training in a particular career but 

 6          with partners from the business community, 

 7          the manufacturing community, or whatever -- a 

 8          number of different job opportunities.  

 9                 And those businesses are part of the 

10          development of the curriculum, the 

11          programming that's done there, and then 

12          ultimately opportunities for students to go 

13          in and be in those business settings.  And 

14          whether that's training with welders, whether 

15          that's going into a manufacturing center and 

16          working with people on the floor, all of that 

17          is part of the P-TECH program.  

18                 We have 26 right now; we have seven 

19          that will be starting.  And that's one of the 

20          things that we've requested additional 

21          funding for.  

22                 Now, I also think that it's extremely 

23          important that our local high schools connect 

24          either with BOCES beyond P-TECH, but provide 


 1          career and technical programs there that 

 2          connect to their own communities.  

 3                 Right now the City of Buffalo is 

 4          putting in a number of programs that are 

 5          partnerships with companies who have those 

 6          jobs, and they're working with the school 

 7          district to develop those programs.  

 8                 That's a big issue.  When I've talked 

 9          to superintendents in the state, they are not 

10          as aware of what they could use as a means of 

11          communicating with parents about these 

12          opportunities.  So part of it is a 

13          communication struggle, if you will.  

14                 Many parents believe that they don't 

15          want their child in a vocational program.  

16          However, a vocational program is going to 

17          give them a job that has, in many cases, a 

18          much higher salary than they would receive 

19          for some job that they might come out of a 

20          four-year college with a degree and get -- 

21          because as you're aware, as you pointed out, 

22          the infrastructure needs are so great that 

23          the hourly rates for some of these jobs are 

24          very high.  


 1                 So I think it's a matter of focusing 

 2          our schools and our communities, expanding 

 3          the P-TECH-like programs to more 

 4          opportunities in schools that are not as 

 5          formalized as the P-TECH but also offer those 

 6          opportunities, and making sure that across 

 7          the board we're communicating with the 

 8          business communities and our school districts 

 9          to bring in partnerships and to make sure 

10          that those work.  

11                 We're going to be applying for a 

12          national grant that's been made available by 

13          JPMorgan Chase through the National 

14          Opportunities Group in Washington, and 

15          hopefully we'll have some opportunities with 

16          that, if we receive it, to spread out the 

17          word on what we can do across the state to 

18          expand those programs and establish those 

19          partnerships.

20                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  That's great to 

21          hear.  And it is, however, an urgent issue, 

22          because every single day we're losing people 

23          who move to other states -- 

24                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Yeah.


 1                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  --  when we want to 

 2          keep them home so that they can be successful 

 3          here in New York.  And you touch on a very 

 4          important thing.  

 5                 I visited my P-TECH program, for 

 6          example, in Chautauqua County.  It's 

 7          extraordinarily impressive, and the students 

 8          are so jazzed up about it and their parents 

 9          are thrilled about it and, you know, 

10          everything is really great as far as that 

11          program goes, and they're actually developing 

12          it even more.  

13                 But the problem, I think -- and I love 

14          my BOCES programs, don't get me wrong -- is 

15          over the years there's been a stigma attached 

16          to BOCES.  So how do you overcome that?  How 

17          do we make BOCES really cool and like a great 

18          career opportunity and get over that stigma?  

19          And I think it's better than it used to be 

20          when I was in high school a million years 

21          ago, but it's still there.  And I talk to 

22          people about it, and they'll say, Well, I 

23          don't want my kids to go to a BOCES program 

24          because that's where all the kids go that 


 1          can't do anything else.  

 2                 So how do we overcome those hurdles?  

 3          How do we get there in a very short period of 

 4          time?  And I know we've got P-TECH, we've got 

 5          other initiatives, I'm glad to hear about 

 6          this grant, but I would say to you there's 

 7          some marketing or branding thing that we need 

 8          to do with BOCES to make it really cool and 

 9          connect kids with jobs in the community.  And 

10          if we can do that, I think we'd just be 

11          light-years ahead.

12                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  It's one of the 

13          agendas that we have in that whole concept of 

14          what can we do to expand current technical 

15          programs across the state.

16                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you.

17                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.

18                 Assemblyman Oaks.

19                 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS:  Thank you, 

20          Commissioner.  

21                 Before I begin, we've also been joined 

22          by Assemblyman Saladino.

23                 Actually, to follow up on Senator 

24          Young's comments, I do see in your 


 1          presentation the focus on P-TECH and a 

 2          request to expand that from $11 million to 

 3          $18 million so that we have a greater amount 

 4          of money going there.  I know you also just 

 5          talked about a grant program that you're 

 6          looking at to try to push careers and sort of 

 7          the mid-skills, technical-skills types of 

 8          job.  

 9                 I know that, for instance, in the 

10          Rochester area they've developed what they 

11          call the SAME program, Summer Advanced 

12          Manufacturing Enterprise.  It's done with 

13          local manufacturers, MCC, the county.  And 

14          actually Monroe County at this point is 

15          funding that.  I'm in the rural county next 

16          door, and individuals are interested there.  

17                 I guess my question is, is that money 

18          you're asking for in the P-TECH area just 

19          going to be focused on the P-TECH schools, 

20          specifically those programs, or are there 

21          some opportunities for demonstration projects 

22          that might be duplicated in other areas, some 

23          opportunities for state funding to help, 

24          again, in the summer program?  


 1                 It's a program where you're taking 

 2          kids who maybe might be in other tracks and 

 3          putting them into the advanced manufacturing, 

 4          give them the experience, 10th and 11th 

 5          graders, and then giving them course credit 

 6          for what they're doing and maybe changing 

 7          their idea from, oh, I don't want to be an 

 8          engineer, I want to be a -- you know, 

 9          something else -- that there are jobs 

10          available for me in this community -- again, 

11          if I take that.

12                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Well, specifically 

13          the issue of career and technical programs, 

14          we asked for funding through the Regents' 

15          request to expand career and technical 

16          programs across the state.  And the P-TECH 

17          program is, as you pointed out, one way to do 

18          that.  It's a model that has been used, and 

19          we've seen a lot of success.  So the 

20          opportunity to expand that beyond where we 

21          are now and give it stable funding is, I 

22          think, extremely important.  

23                 But as I said, our proposal also 

24          talks, in the P-12 arena, for programming 


 1          that will expand career and technical 

 2          programs for students in regular high schools 

 3          and make available the opportunity for 

 4          certified teachers to get into that program.  

 5          That's also another issue.  You have people 

 6          in the community that could come in as 

 7          experts and be teaching in our schools, but 

 8          we'd have to review all of the requirements 

 9          to make sure that that's an available pattern 

10          or track for them to get in and be employed, 

11          working with the students.  

12                 So we haven't any plan at this point 

13          to expand the summer program, but all of the 

14          work that's done at P-TECH is in fact an 

15          extension all year, so we have programs 

16          running all summer with those programs.

17                 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS:  My hope would just 

18          be that, you know, we have such a vast 

19          state --

20                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Yes.

21                 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS:  -- in many 

22          different areas, that allowing and focusing 

23          on -- and maybe we should be budgeting for 

24          some additional demonstration ones, to help 


 1          show the way to try to, you know, help as 

 2          many people as we can with that.  

 3                 I would agree also with the Senator on 

 4          the rebranding issue.  I think it's -- and 

 5          hopefully -- you've said that's on the table 

 6          for you, looking at that.  It's interesting 

 7          just for us locally, one of the things is 

 8          people are trying to do this.  We actually 

 9          have a Career Carnival this summer -- 

10                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Yes.

11                 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS:  --  that we're 

12          looking at doing for eighth graders to bring 

13          them together, bring local manufacturers and 

14          businesses and try to, at that point, expose 

15          them before they enter their eighth grade 

16          year to say, I'm getting ready for high 

17          school, what are the things out there 

18          available for me.  

19                 That's just one idea of local areas to 

20          do -- but I would hope that as we as a state 

21          do that, that we share -- if that's a 

22          success, maybe we share that, duplicate that, 

23          or get ideas from around the state because we 

24          have to make some progress in this area.  


 1          It's a shame if we have jobs that could be 

 2          filled but we don't have people choosing to 

 3          go in those areas.

 4                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  I recently had the 

 5          opportunity to speak to a group of 

 6          businessmen that were here representing 

 7          chambers of commerce around the state, and 

 8          they got to that very issue of we have jobs 

 9          that can be filled if we could let parents 

10          and students know these jobs are something 

11          that you can plan for, and when you walk out 

12          of high school you may do some postsecondary 

13          work but you'll be much quicker in a job, 

14          earning a salary.  

15                 And a number of them have models that 

16          they are doing in their own communities to 

17          support high schools and letting students 

18          know that this is something that is available 

19          to them.  

20                 But I think your point about using 

21          models that are successful and getting the 

22          word out so that others can use that same 

23          plan certainly would help.  

24                 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS:  Well, you're 


 1          certainly welcome on August 23rd to come out 

 2          to Palmyra for the Career Carnival.

 3                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  I know Palmyra 

 4          well.

 5                 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS:  Thank you.

 6                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Senator?  

 7                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you.

 8                 Senator Toby Stavisky.

 9                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  Thank you.  

10                 Thank you for your comments about 

11          vocational education.  I spent two years 

12          teaching at Thomas Edison Vocational and 

13          Technical High School in Queens, and I 

14          couldn't agree with you more.  

15                 And also I appreciate the 

16          responsiveness of your office on a number of 

17          issues that I brought to their attention.  

18          They've been very forthright and responsive, 

19          and I do appreciate it.  

20                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Thank you.  

21                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  Let me ask you just 

22          a couple of questions.  

23                 You had this Accela, I believe it was 

24          called, the program that was going to handle 


 1          licensure statewide.  And it just wasn't 

 2          going to work for your department, which is 

 3          understandable since you have something like 

 4          53 or so professions to license.  However, I 

 5          was the sponsor of the legislation in 2009 

 6          increasing the fees, and I took considerable 

 7          heat for doing that.  

 8                 What has happened -- and I've asked 

 9          this question in the past of your 

10          predecessors, and I never once got a 

11          response.  They promised to get back to me 

12          and did not.  What happened to the money, 

13          what happened to the increased fee money that 

14          was generated by the licensure?  

15                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  It's still there.  

16          What we need is the approval so that we can 

17          use that money and develop our own system for 

18          e-licensing.  

19                 So the money that we are requesting is 

20          $4.3 million that is currently in our budget, 

21          and I think that is reflected on page 23.  

22                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  I have a copy.

23                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Right.  So that 

24          money is there.  


 1                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  It has not been 

 2          spent?

 3                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  No.

 4                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  And it's been 

 5          reallocated every year, presumably?

 6                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  So this year --  

 7          this is a request for this year's funding, 

 8          but it would be over a five-year period.  

 9                 But that funding is in the account, 

10          and we specifically want to spend it so that 

11          we can do the e-licensing.  

12                 And I want to thank you, to take the 

13          opportunity to thank you publicly for that 

14          work, because we have almost a million people 

15          who receive their licensing through New York.  

16          And I think it's a really critical thing for 

17          us to be able to make that as 

18          customer-friendly as possible, and one of the 

19          ways to do that is to put a system in place 

20          that allows for that to happen.  So your 

21          foresight in thinking about making sure that 

22          that was available for us is really critical.  

23                 We tried to work with, of course, the 

24          efficiency of a state single system.  It 


 1          isn't going to work for us because of some of 

 2          the more specifics of this.  So we need the 

 3          approval to move forward on that $4.3 million 

 4          and then in subsequent years.

 5                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  You mentioned 

 6          page 23.  On page 22, under Enhanced 

 7          Community Service, you say that in 2015, 

 8          processing time to issue a license was less 

 9          than two weeks -- on the -- toward the top.  

10          First or second bullet, the first bullet 

11          point.

12                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Yes.

13                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  Now, the reason 

14          I -- and I let your office know ahead of time 

15          that I would be asking this question -- a 

16          constituent of mine is an immigrant, a nurse 

17          from another country with a green card, 

18          married to an American citizen.  Applied in 

19          October of 2013.  She did everything she was 

20          supposed to do on-line, she paid the $390.  

21                 Let me just condense what happened to 

22          her.  There were a series of follow-ups, and 

23          it took 11 months for that license to be 

24          issued because it had to go through a group 


 1          called CGFNS.  They're the ones who verify 

 2          the credentialing accuracy of the foreign 

 3          professional school.

 4                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  That's right.

 5                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  It's called 

 6          Credential Verification Service for New York 

 7          State.  Is there any other place they can 

 8          use -- any other website or organization they 

 9          can use to verify the credentials?

10                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Well, I'm going to 

11          have Doug answer that specific question.

12                 DEP. COMMISSIONER LENTIVECH:  Sure.  

13          They don't have to use CGFNS at all.  They 

14          can just go directly to us.  CGFNS is the 

15          only verification service in nursing that I'm 

16          aware of that does what they do, and they are 

17          usually a manner of expediting the license 

18          because they have relationships with all the 

19          states and with numerous foreign countries, 

20          so they allow us to capitalize on a large 

21          degree of experience.  Typically, going the 

22          CGFNS route will make their license 

23          application process quicker.  

24                 The problem with foreign applicants 


 1          for licensing is twofold.  One is the 

 2          verification that the license materials we 

 3          received are accurate, that they have come 

 4          from the actual school that they're saying 

 5          they came from.  Does the school really 

 6          exist, do the grades really exist -- the 

 7          verification process.  That's true in all 

 8          foreign license applications, and CGFNS is 

 9          very good at doing that.  And it enables us 

10          to get that part of the question answered 

11          without a lot of back-and-forth, 

12          international mailing and emailing.

13                 The other part of the process is 

14          ensuring that the actual courses they took, 

15          the substance of those courses actually 

16          equals the qualitative needs we have in 

17          New York -- so their nursing course in 

18          Clinical Practice 1 and 2 equals what we 

19          expect them to have here.  And that can take 

20          some going back and forth between our office 

21          and the foreign institution as well, to get 

22          the information we need to say did they 

23          receive all these things so that they're a 

24          competent practitioner in New York.  


 1                 I know it's kind of a long question, 

 2          but there's a lot of complexity into 

 3          licensing a person that doesn't go to one of 

 4          the New York registered programs.

 5                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  Well, as you know, 

 6          I represent a large immigrant population.  

 7                 DEP. COMMISSIONER LENTIVECH:  I do 

 8          know.

 9                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  You've been to my 

10          office -- 

11                 DEP. COMMISSIONER LENTIVECH:  Yes.

12                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  -- and it's become 

13          more so since you visited.

14                 That's not what happened.  What 

15          happened was in June after -- you know, eight 

16          months after the application, she called to 

17          see if they had the information from the 

18          college, and they had not.  She asked if she 

19          should call the school in the Philippines, 

20          and they informed her not to and that based 

21          upon SED rules, if she does, her application 

22          could be canceled.

23                 Now, it goes on and on, and she 

24          finally got it a month before the expiration 


 1          period where she would have to start it all 

 2          over again.  

 3                 I happen to know the individual, I 

 4          know her well, and I was very troubled.  She 

 5          didn't come to me for help but tried to 

 6          attempt to do this on her own, and it was a 

 7          disaster.  

 8                 How can we delay everything with the 

 9          so-called nursing shortage?  We're not 

10          credentialing people who are qualified for 

11          licensure because this group, CGFNS, is so 

12          slow in responding.  

13                 My question is this.  They are the 

14          ones that they had to use.  Was this a 

15          sole -- was there an RFP offered to select 

16          the college or the organization to do the 

17          credentialing?  

18                 DEP. COMMISSIONER LENTIVECH:  No, 

19          because they don't have to use CGFNS -- 

20                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  She was told 

21          otherwise.

22                 DEP. COMMISSIONER LENTIVECH:  -- they 

23          can just send their stuff directly to us.  

24          And perhaps this individual should have 


 1          communicated directly to us.  

 2                 I'd love to hear the specifics so we 

 3          can do some things about it.

 4                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  I know.  I will get 

 5          you -- our commissioner the specifics, 

 6          because I suspect that this is not an 

 7          isolated situation.  

 8                 DEP. COMMISSIONER LENTIVECH:  Yeah.

 9                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  And we certainly 

10          have to do everything we can to make it 

11          easier for the legitimate people to succeed.

12                 DEP. COMMISSIONER LENTIVECH:  Agreed.

13                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  Thank you.  

14                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  We'd be happy, 

15          though, to follow up on that, if you get 

16          the --

17                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  Oh, I'll get you 

18          the material.

19                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Thank you.  

20                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Mr. Saladino.

21                 ASSEMBLYMAN SALADINO:  Thank you, 

22          Chairman.  

23                 Appreciate your time with us today.  I 

24          came in a little late because we had session.  


 1                 But one of the questions I had -- and 

 2          perhaps you could shed some light on this -- 

 3          on Long Island I represent many of the 

 4          professors in the CUNY and the SUNY system.  

 5          In CUNY specifically, they've gone some five 

 6          years-plus without a contract, without 

 7          raises -- many of us in the room understand 

 8          that pain.

 9                 The question I have is, what are we 

10          doing to get that resolved from the 

11          standpoint of State Education?  We understand 

12          the importance of keeping our top-flight 

13          educators working with us, we understand 

14          they're the best of the best in the country.  

15          What are we doing to get that situation 

16          resolved?

17                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  So just for 

18          clarification, you're talking about the 

19          contracts that SUNY professors -- 

20                 ASSEMBLYMAN SALADINO:  CUNY.  

21                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  -- or CUNY 

22          professors have?  So that doesn't fall under 

23          the State Ed Department.  And I know 

24          specifically it was mentioned with Chancellor 


 1          Milliken, who was here from CUNY, and I'd 

 2          have to defer to him to respond to you on 

 3          where he is with his negotiations on 

 4          budget -- on salary, rather.

 5                 ASSEMBLYMAN SALADINO:  Okay.  And the 

 6          second part was --

 7                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  We can make sure 

 8          that he gets that question.  I don't know if 

 9          he's got anybody here.

10                 ASSEMBLYMAN SALADINO:  Yeah, I missed 

11          him.  We had session earlier today.

12                 The other question, there was a 

13          discussion going on about BOCES earlier.  And 

14          are we also pushing to keep these entities 

15          alive when so many of them are lacking 

16          financial oxygen?  

17                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Yes, and so in our 

18          budget request there is a specific item that 

19          mentions the salaries for BOCES teachers, so 

20          that we can raise those salaries and keep the 

21          staff members that are there that are so 

22          specialized.  

23                 ASSEMBLYMAN SALADINO:  We have one 

24          particular entity on Long Island, LISA -- the 


 1          Long Island High School of Performing Arts.  

 2          Today Billy Joel was speaking at a forum to 

 3          try to keep that facility open.

 4                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Is he associated 

 5          with that school in any way?  I know he's had 

 6          a lot of interest in the school -- I was 

 7          talking to Regent Tilles about it.

 8                 ASSEMBLYMAN SALADINO:  Yes, 

 9          Regent Tilles has been absolutely wonderful 

10          on this issue.  We couldn't ask for a better 

11          person in terms of his motivation and his 

12          assistance.  

13                 But we need more help from the state.  

14          And while our educators certainly deserve to 

15          be paid a wage in relationship to their 

16          education, their experience, and the 

17          importance that they bring to our state, 

18          making the system more affordable seems to be 

19          one of the big problems.  As we travel all 

20          over and I speak to -- and listen, more 

21          importantly -- to those with BOCES on 

22          Long Island and other places in the state, 

23          home schools have found this too expensive.  

24          And as we try to wrestle with a tax cap that 


 1          we know the residents want, it makes it very, 

 2          very difficult for those home schools to 

 3          incur those costs.  

 4                 So one of the issues is cooperation 

 5          with Albany to get the funding that they need 

 6          to stay open.  Another issue is providing 

 7          perhaps a line in the budget for extended 

 8          assistance to those school districts so it is 

 9          more attractive to send students there.  

10                 And third, one thing that came up in 

11          our meetings is a partnership with the 

12          private sector so they would inject financial 

13          resources into the BOCES programs, which 

14          really dovetails what we've heard from some 

15          of the members of the Legislature just 

16          earlier.

17                 Are you looking at these things?  Are 

18          we getting closer before we lose these 

19          important components of our community?  

20                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Absolutely.  I 

21          mean, it's definitely something that I think 

22          really would revitalize a number of different 

23          areas within the state, in our schools, in 

24          our K-12 settings, and then provide more 


 1          opportunities for our students.  

 2                 So it is a major focus for us, career 

 3          and technical programs.  But some of the 

 4          specific programs -- particularly the arts 

 5          program you're talking about that 

 6          Regent Tilles is an excellent ambassador for 

 7          that program, particularly -- he in fact 

 8          chairs a Regents subgroup on the arts.  And 

 9          we're working to make sure that students can 

10          get a special designation as students that 

11          have gone through longer periods of intense 

12          art instruction.  

13                 So all those things are on our page, 

14          and BOCES is one of the programs that can 

15          support that.  It's also an important factor 

16          in the work that we want to do in the future.

17                 ASSEMBLYMAN SALADINO:  Thank you.    

18          We appreciate that.

19                 Just to get a little bit more 

20          specifics from you, does that mean you're 

21          working on that and we'll see components of 

22          this through this budget process?  Or is this 

23          something that has a target further down the 

24          road?


 1                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Well, we've 

 2          actually -- we have a state aid proposal that 

 3          actually gets to the issue of the BOCES 

 4          increase in funding.  So we'll make sure that 

 5          gets over to you so you know the specifics of 

 6          it.

 7                 ASSEMBLYMAN SALADINO:  Thank you.

 8                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  You're welcome.  

 9                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.  

10                 Senator?

11                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Hi.  Just a couple 

12          of questions, thank you.  And I tend to ask 

13          these questions every year, but you're new 

14          for this.  

15                 How are we doing on closing down or 

16          stopping the higher ed institutions that 

17          don't really educate young people, just take 

18          their money?  So there have been any number 

19          of national scandals, state scandals -- we 

20          moved some legislation I guess two years ago, 

21          I think it was implemented two years ago.  

22          And I'm just curious whether we are finding 

23          that we are actually preventing these 

24          institutions from continuing to suck money 


 1          out of our student population and veterans, 

 2          who seem to disproportionately also get hit 

 3          by these programs.

 4                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  So it was in 2012, 

 5          so that legislation holds those schools more 

 6          accountable.  We're speaking particularly of 

 7          proprietary schools?  

 8                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Yes, but I've gotten 

 9          in trouble when I've used the term 

10          "proprietary schools," because some of them 

11          are perfectly fine programs.

12                 But many of them are not.  So yes.

13                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  So I want to say I 

14          appreciate you telling me, I probably just 

15          got in trouble.

16                 (Laughter.)

17                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  But I think it's 

18          important for us to know that we should have 

19          accountability for all of the schools.  And 

20          the creation -- a school is able to continue 

21          if they have some issues that they're trying 

22          to perfect and get better.  But we have 

23          certainly strong fiscal reporting 

24          requirements and improved SED follow-up to 


 1          help minimize sudden school closings to help 

 2          students who are in those schools.

 3                 The whole issue really is how does SED 

 4          review and streamline the approval process 

 5          for the renewal of these licensed schools and 

 6          make sure that they're doing everything 

 7          they're supposed to.  So from a perspective 

 8          of where we are now, we have 399 schools that 

 9          are licensed.  There are 76 that are awaiting 

10          licensure, 55 are pending new, and 21 are 

11          candidates for it.  

12                 We have no way of knowing if there are 

13          unlicensed schools, but we believe there are 

14          fewer unlicensed schools, based on the 

15          operation that we've had in decreasing the 

16          number of complaints that are coming in.  

17          Because we used to receive more complaints, 

18          and I have had this conversation with 

19          Dr. D'Agati about that.

20                 The tuition that's collected, it's 

21          about $600 million annually for those 

22          schools.  And it affects about 157,000 

23          students.  So the tuition reimbursement 

24          account balance is $3.6 million, and that is 


 1          used to protect students by providing refunds 

 2          for those students who attended licensed 

 3          schools and filled out the substantiated 

 4          complaints that we found to be real, that 

 5          then they were given their refunds on 

 6          tuition.  

 7                 And to protect students attending 

 8          schools which have subsequently closed during 

 9          their attendance, they get full tuition fees 

10          and book refunds that are made from that 

11          account should the school not be able to 

12          handle those refunds.

13                 It's within different areas of the 

14          department, so Kevin Smith, with Access, has 

15          been working very closely with them.  And I 

16          pointed out earlier that Dr. D'Agati and I 

17          had conversations with some of the deans 

18          about those schools as well, because they 

19          were getting students who were transferring 

20          over.

21                 And so it is on our page to address 

22          the issue.  And as I said, there's fewer 

23          complaints coming in.  We anticipate, 

24          therefore, that there's fewer schools running 


 1          without certifications.

 2                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  And do you ever have 

 3          any specific recommendations to the 

 4          Legislature about what kinds of tools we 

 5          could assist you with with further 

 6          legislation? 

 7                 I mean, you don't right now have any 

 8          authority to follow up with unlicensed 

 9          schools; is that correct?  

10                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Kevin?

11                 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER SMITH:  Thank you, 

12          Senator.  

13                 Yes, that's correct.  We have a very 

14          limited resource.  We're on a special revenue 

15          account.  All of the resource that supports 

16          our work as the regulatory agency comes from 

17          the tuition assessment that we levy upon 

18          schools based on their gross tuition income, 

19          and that is a limited amount of money.  

20                 The law is pretty specific, in my 

21          mind, that it does not direct us to oversee 

22          unlicensed institutions.  Clearly, where 

23          there are health and safety issues and 

24          complaints coming from unlicensed 


 1          institutions through whatever source, we do 

 2          all that we can to follow up on those 

 3          schools.  We want to better engage other law 

 4          enforcement and regulatory agencies from the 

 5          Consumer Protection Agency, Attorney General, 

 6          et cetera -- ICE, where illegal immigration 

 7          is concerned or Homeland Security is 

 8          concerned -- to make sure that those 

 9          unlicensed institutions or licensed 

10          institutions that might be breaking the law 

11          are dealt with strongly.  

12                 But since the law was passed in late 

13          2012, I've tried to institute, in the Bureau 

14          of Proprietary School Supervision, stronger 

15          technical assistance in support, as the 

16          commissioner said; better work in bringing 

17          new schools on through candidacy or directly, 

18          to make sure that they're a viable business 

19          and educational institution from the get-go, 

20          and prove at the coming in rather than 

21          afterwards.  We have reduced the number of 

22          schools significantly in that way and the 

23          number of applications in that way.  

24                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  And do you think 


 1          that there has been -- so I'm glad to hear 

 2          there's reduced complaints.  So potentially 

 3          the work you're doing has resolved some of 

 4          the problems for, quote, unquote, 

 5          institutions attempting to get licenses or 

 6          having licenses.

 7                 But do you think there's a growth or a 

 8          shrinkage in the sort of just -- the black 

 9          market school model, where they're not even 

10          trying to go for licensing?  

11                 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER SMITH:  We believe 

12          they still exist.  We believe the bad actors 

13          are still out there.  We are as vigilant as 

14          we can be.  And again, engaging all aspects 

15          of state and city -- as most schools are in 

16          the city -- law enforcement and other 

17          agencies that have responsibility in this 

18          area is an important piece of it; in 

19          particular, I think, the Consumer Protection 

20          Agency.  These are un -- they're illegal 

21          businesses operating in their space.  So 

22          spread the responsibility, spread the 

23          oversight as best we can.  

24                 I'm not resting on the reduced numbers 


 1          of complaints.  I think that students in our 

 2          non-degree post-secondary sector -- that's 

 3          the preferred language -- are vulnerable.  

 4          They have been historically vulnerable.  We 

 5          want to make sure that the schools are giving 

 6          them everything that those students paid for.

 7                 Three hundred ninety-nine schools 

 8          offering an array of allied health, 

 9          cosmetology, all the way to dog grooming -- 

10          which are very, very viable professions in 

11          our community -- 177,000 students in the last 

12          fiscal year.  So there's a lot of folks out 

13          there benefiting by these programs, and we 

14          want to make sure they have integrity.

15                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  And on a variation 

16          on the theme, so New York State has always 

17          been more restrictive than many states about 

18          these online universities that don't have a 

19          physical entity either in New York State or 

20          sometimes not anywhere.

21                 What's the research showing us now?  

22          Because certainly we live in a world where 

23          more and more online everything takes place.  

24          I see the TV commercials for these online 


 1          universities.  I'm wondering what's your 

 2          experience about the patterns of -- I wish it 

 3          wasn't just exploitation for young people's 

 4          money, but I fear it is exploitation of young 

 5          people's money.

 6                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Well, one of the 

 7          things that we have really pushed for, as 

 8          have the chancellors of both SUNY and CUNY, 

 9          is the State Authorization Reciprocity 

10          Agreement, SARA, which will allow us to have 

11          the opportunities for our programs to work as 

12          an online institution in other places, but 

13          also those institutions outside of New York 

14          that want to come and be here to be part of 

15          the registration of that.  

16                 And it's really an important thing, we 

17          believe, to have the ability to know who is 

18          out there in the online world and offering 

19          programs here, and that we can make sure that 

20          we have that involvement with licenses for 

21          them to work in New York.

22                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  So without the SARA 

23          legislation, you don't have the ability to 

24          say you're bad, you're maybe, you're okay?  


 1          How does that work?

 2                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Well, that's what 

 3          it really is.  That we need that legislation, 

 4          and that's been proposed by both -- as I 

 5          said, both SUNY and CUNY and the 

 6          independents.

 7                 But, you know, let's face it, if you 

 8          look and you watch, there are settings for 

 9          K-12 students that are online, and you also 

10          see many opportunities online for 

11          post-secondary work.  So it's important for 

12          us to have the ability to be part of this 

13          organization nationally.

14                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Yes, as the internet 

15          expands and the opportunities to do different 

16          things on the internet expand, there's -- I 

17          won't disagree you, there may be 

18          opportunities for quality education combined 

19          with actual classrooms and teachers to be a 

20          blended model.  I've had lots of 

21          conversations about that.  

22                 But it seems that disproportionately 

23          you see young people thinking -- or not even 

24          young people, older people who've never had 


 1          the opportunity to get that college degree, 

 2          don't see themselves going back into an 

 3          institutional setting now, and watching the 

 4          commercials and saying, Gee, that sounds like 

 5          a good way to get licensed for A, B, C -- and 

 6          they get ripped off for huge amounts of 

 7          money.

 8                 So how will we ensure -- if we go 

 9          further down this road, how will we ensure 

10          that we are not somehow just falling into 

11          appearing to endorse these models?

12                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Well, I think at 

13          least through this project we would have the 

14          ability to know who it is that is approved 

15          through the SARA project, and then we could 

16          work with them.  

17                 But you're right.  I mean, as the 

18          internet expands and people go on there 

19          without checks on what in fact is a great 

20          opportunity or not, it opens up.  I mean, we 

21          have -- much of what we have to do is train 

22          our students to be very critical as they're 

23          going on the internet and think about what it 

24          is they're saying they're going to produce 


 1          for them, and is that where we want to be.

 2                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  I think these are 

 3          tough issues ahead of us as well.

 4                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Mm-hmm.

 5                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 6                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.

 7                 SENATOR YOUNG:  Thank you.

 8                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Senator?

 9                 SENATOR YOUNG:  I think we're done.  

10                 So thank you so much.

11                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you very 

12          much.  

13                 COMMISSIONER ELIA:  Thank you.  It was 

14          a pleasure.  Appreciate your support. 

15                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Elsa Magee, 

16          executive vice president, New York State 

17          Higher Education Services Corporation.  

18                 Good afternoon.

19                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  Good afternoon. 

20                 Chairwoman Young, Chairman Farrell, 

21          Chairwoman Glick, and members of the Senate 

22          and Assembly, thank you for the opportunity 

23          to speak this afternoon about the Governorís 

24          2016-2017 Executive Budget recommendations 


 1          that impact the New York State Higher 

 2          Education Services Corporation.  I'm Elsa 

 3          Magee, executive vice president and acting 

 4          president of HESC.

 5                 HESC administers the New York State 

 6          Tuition Assistance Program and more than 20 

 7          other student financial aid and college 

 8          access programs that help students obtain and 

 9          afford a college education.  Collectively, 

10          these programs provide over $1 billion in 

11          awards to support the college costs of more 

12          than 360,000 students.

13                 Governor Cuomo's 2016-2017 Executive 

14          Budget continues full support for all 

15          existing state grant and scholarship programs 

16          and proposes the DREAM Act.  In addition, the 

17          Executive Budget reflects increased 

18          efficiencies and reduced administrative costs 

19          at HESC.  The recommendations also reflect 

20          the Governorís ongoing commitment to 

21          addressing the financial burden of college 

22          faced by todayís students when entering and 

23          upon graduating from college.

24                 The Executive Budget continues funding 


 1          for the innovative Get on Your Feet Loan 

 2          Forgiveness Program to assist struggling new 

 3          college graduates by providing federal 

 4          student loan relief to cover their monthly 

 5          student loan debt for up to two years. 

 6          Launched on December 31, 2015, over 6500 

 7          New Yorkers have submitted applications in 

 8          the programís first five weeks, making it one 

 9          of the strongest new program launches.  

10                 In implementing the program, HESC has 

11          partnered with the U.S. Department of 

12          Education and the National Student Loan Data 

13          System to streamline the application process.  

14          It is expected that more than 7,000 students 

15          will apply for awards during state fiscal 

16          year 2015-2016 and that nearly 16,000 

17          students will receive awards during state 

18          fiscal year 2016-2017.

19                 Recognizing that the rising cost of 

20          college makes college choice more critical 

21          than ever, New York created a standard 

22          financial aid award letter for colleges and 

23          universities to provide prospective and 

24          first-time enrolling students and their 


 1          families with uniform financial aid award 

 2          information on the total costs of education, 

 3          how much aid they will receive, how much aid 

 4          they must repay, and the success of other 

 5          students after graduation.

 6                 In December 2015, the Department of 

 7          Financial Services released the New York 

 8          State Financial Aid Award Information Sheet 

 9          for schools responding to prospective 

10          students looking to enroll in the 2016-2017 

11          academic year or thereafter.  The New York 

12          State Financial Aid Award Information Sheet 

13          incorporates the federal model along with 

14          some additional information that is unique to 

15          the state.

16                 To aid in the implementation of the 

17          award letter, schools that are unable to make 

18          the full sheet available have been provided 

19          with an Interim Period Financial Aid Award 

20          Information Sheet for responding to 

21          prospective applicants.

22                 The 2016-2017 Executive Budget enables 

23          HESC to continue administering an array of 

24          programs and services that support the 


 1          attainment of a college degree for all 

 2          New York State students.  On behalf of 

 3          Governor Cuomo, HESC is pleased to play a 

 4          vital role in providing New York Stateís 

 5          students with a gateway to a successful 

 6          college career.

 7                 Thank you, and I would be glad to 

 8          answer any questions you may have.

 9                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you very 

10          much.  

11                 Questions?

12                 Assemblywoman Glick.

13                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Thank you.

14                 In HESC's experience, what's the most 

15          effective way to inform the most vulnerable 

16          students -- whether it's foster care kids or  

17          students who are immigrants -- about 

18          financial aid opportunities?  And are there 

19          things that we could or should be doing to 

20          increase the awareness of TAP, the various 

21          the scholarship programs, that would help 

22          them pay for school as they're trying to 

23          figure out if that's something they can do?  

24                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  The most 


 1          effective way that we found to reach the 

 2          students is through the groups and 

 3          individuals who have direct contact with them 

 4          on a daily basis.  So generally speaking, for 

 5          students who are in high school, we reach out 

 6          primarily through guidance counselors who 

 7          work with those students and assist them with 

 8          their financial aid application, and 

 9          information for programs such as STEM.  We've 

10          reached out to the STEP program, where those 

11          students are participating in programs 

12          already, leading to science, technology, 

13          engineering, and math.  Or the Math and 

14          Science Master Teachers Program through SUNY, 

15          we've also worked there.  And then, again, 

16          through the counselors and the teachers.

17                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  It's good to 

18          hear that there's some way that you're trying 

19          to reach students on the STEM scholarships.  

20          I wonder if there is some thought on the part 

21          of the agency to try to reach students at an 

22          earlier age.  I think when you're 13 or 14, 

23          school might not be the first thing -- you 

24          might be a decent student, but there are 


 1          other things happening in your life.  And one 

 2          doesn't necessarily realize early enough the 

 3          importance of doing well.  

 4                 So if students were to know that -- 

 5          and their parents, who would be in a position 

 6          to urge them in the right direction -- that 

 7          some of these scholarships like the STEM 

 8          scholarship in particular -- because you have 

 9          to graduate in the top 10 percent of your 

10          class.  In the junior year, that's already 

11          half your opportunity to do better is gone.  

12          And if you knew you had a goal, and so many 

13          young people are interested in technology and 

14          so forth, if we could reach them earlier, it 

15          might give them the motivation and incentive.  

16                 Has the agency thought about that, 

17          what vehicles you might have to do that at an 

18          earlier age?

19                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  We have a -- 

20          administer the federal GEAR UP grant, which 

21          touches -- right now we have a cohort of 

22          6,000 students that we work with, beginning 

23          in the seventh grade, who will be receiving 

24          that kind of information right through their 


 1          first year of college.

 2                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  That's good to 

 3          know.  

 4                 It looked as if there was a 

 5          significant jump up in the allocation for 

 6          STEM.  Is that because you are having success 

 7          in reaching students, and will that be 

 8          enough?

 9                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  We are seeing a 

10          year-to-year increase from the first year of 

11          the program to the second year of the 

12          program.  Primarily students are pursuing 

13          largely the science and technology fields, 

14          more so than the engineering and the math 

15          fields in the program.  But we are seeing 

16          growth year to year.

17                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  We've had a lot 

18          of conversations about the difficulty people 

19          have in accessing the part-time TAP.  They 

20          have to go to school full-time for a year in 

21          order to qualify.  And obviously if your 

22          issue is that you have to work or you have 

23          family concerns, your ability to access 

24          part-time TAP is almost obviated.  


 1                 So do you have any recommendations 

 2          about what we might do to change that, or 

 3          just change the structure of TAP so that 

 4          it's -- we've heard many instances of 

 5          youngsters -- the eight semesters don't 

 6          necessarily fit neatly into people's lives.  

 7          So has the agency had any conversations about 

 8          what changes they might recommend?

 9                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  We are -- as you 

10          know, we're not a policy-making agency, so as 

11          to the policy of the program, we don't take a 

12          position.  

13                 But we do know that the numbers of 

14          part-time TAP recipients are relatively low.

15                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Does anybody 

16          call and say "Is there some other way I can 

17          get access to this?"  I mean, you're not 

18          policymakers, but you're interacting with the 

19          public.  So what do you tell them, "We're not 

20          policymakers"?  

21                 What recommendations, suggestions, or 

22          otherwise does HESC ever provide?

23                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  Again, we 

24          administer the program as it's enacted into 


 1          law.  So if we -- we recommend that people do 

 2          speak with their local legislators if they're 

 3          looking to have a change in the law.

 4                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  You're not a 

 5          policymaking operation, but you do -- you are 

 6          an Executive agency.  So have there been any 

 7          instances where someone from the second floor 

 8          might ask an opinion versus a recommendation?

 9                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  We have not been 

10          asked for our opinion, no.  But we provide 

11          the information, factual information again 

12          and demographics of the programs.

13                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Thank you very 

14          much.

15                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.  

16                 Senator?  

17                 SENATOR YOUNG:  Thank you.  

18                 Welcome, Acting President Magee.  It's 

19          great to see you.  

20                 I wanted to touch on something.  

21          Several schools have expressed concern 

22          regarding the implementation of the 

23          standardized financial aid award letter that 

24          was included in the budget last year.  Do you 


 1          feel that this issue will be addressed, and 

 2          how?

 3                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  This is an open, 

 4          ongoing process right now.  So we are in the 

 5          public comment period.  We have met with 

 6          schools, questions that they have raised.  We 

 7          have worked with the Department of Financial 

 8          Services to provide FAQs to address any 

 9          concerns and minimize confusion.  

10                 But right now, the comments that are 

11          going into the Department of Financial 

12          Services, they will at the end of that review 

13          period look to address any of the concerns 

14          that have been raised by the schools.  

15                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you.  When is 

16          the review period expected to be completed?  

17                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  I believe the 

18          open comment period expires in early March, 

19          around March 5th.

20                 SENATOR YOUNG:  Early March.  Okay.  

21          And then do you think that the agencies can 

22          move swiftly to address the situation after 

23          that?  

24                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  Yes.  I know in 


 1          working with DFS, they have heard what the 

 2          schools -- issues that have been raised that 

 3          they would seek to address.

 4                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Great.  Because as 

 5          you know, I mean with the calendar and the 

 6          timeline for students, that's critically 

 7          important to get resolved.  So thank you very 

 8          much.  

 9                 I think the Senate is complete.

10                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Assemblyman 

11          Lupinacci.  

12                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  Good 

13          afternoon.  

14                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  Good afternoon.  

15                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  I'm just -- 

16          several questions I have.  

17                 The first one, I know that in your 

18          testimony you did mention in terms of the 

19          proposed DREAM Act.  And basically how is 

20          your organization going to be prepared to 

21          make sure that if it goes into a policy that 

22          these students are eligible for TAP?  Is 

23          there a system in place in terms of looking 

24          at eligibility requirements?  Will it be 


 1          harder to verify?  If you could just explain 

 2          that a little bit.

 3                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  Well, if it were 

 4          implemented, we would be working with the -- 

 5          in concert with the administration.  And 

 6          we've had conversations with the Department 

 7          of State, Office of New American Citizens, to 

 8          identify the best means of verifying 

 9          eligibility for students.

10                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  Do you have 

11          any specifics yet in terms of how they would 

12          do it?  

13                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  We have not at 

14          this time, no.  

15                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  Okay.  And 

16          we've obviously heard a lot about trying to 

17          reduce the debt of recent college graduates, 

18          and basically the federal government has 

19          provided limited resources in this area in 

20          terms of refinancing options, in terms of 

21          trying to lower the overall student debt.  

22                 Are there any recommendations that you 

23          think that we could help do or make it a 

24          little bit easier for students in terms of 


 1          reducing the debt burden that they have when 

 2          they graduate?  

 3                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  On the debt that 

 4          they have, we have right now the Get on Your 

 5          Feet Loan Forgiveness program that has 

 6          been -- again, it's a very popular program, 

 7          and we see that there's a need.  We have 

 8          roughly 1,000 applications a week that have 

 9          been coming in to help students reduce the 

10          debt if they take advantage of programs 

11          that -- income-driven repayment plans that 

12          are offered at the federal level.

13                 Right now there are three programs 

14          that the federal government offers -- the 

15          income-based repayment, the pay-as-you-earn, 

16          and a new revised pay-as-you-earn which 

17          captures more students in that program.  And 

18          then the state will step in and assist even 

19          further by reducing that amount to zero for 

20          two years out of college and for up to two 

21          years' worth of payments.  

22                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  Now, you said 

23          that I think about 6500 people have taken 

24          advantage so far?


 1                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  Have applied -- 

 2          they have submitted applications to date.  

 3                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  How many are 

 4          you expecting over the next several weeks?  

 5          Or by the time, you know, the next several 

 6          months go on, how many people do you think --

 7                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  Well, we're 

 8          expecting, again, that the applications will 

 9          decline.  We haven't seen it at this point, 

10          but we're assuming that by March/April that 

11          we'll see fewer coming in, again, as those 

12          who have the ability to apply have already 

13          applied.  

14                 But then it will spike again in June 

15          when December grads go into repayment, then 

16          spike again next November when May graduates 

17          go into repayment.  So we see the cycle of 

18          spikes in the applications.  

19                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  I just had one 

20          more question, and it looks like -- I think 

21          beginning with the 2017-2018 academic year, 

22          FAFSA, which is the Free Application for 

23          Federal Student Aid, is going to have to be 

24          completed utilizing I think the tax data from 


 1          the year prior to the previous tax year, so 

 2          it's going to be changing a little bit.  But 

 3          New York, as it stands right now in terms of 

 4          TAP, is based on only the prior year.

 5                 Do you think, in terms of your 

 6          opinion, or would you suggest to us, do you 

 7          think New York law should be changed to 

 8          comply with FAFSA?   Or do you think we 

 9          should keep it separate at this point?

10                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  At this point we 

11          are working with the administration and the 

12          Division of the Budget, who is looking at the 

13          impact of a change to prior prior year.  

14                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  Okay.  Thank 

15          you very much.

16                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  Thank you.

17                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.

18                 Senator? 

19                 SENATOR YOUNG:  I think we're 

20          complete.  So thank you very much.  

21                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  Thank you.  

22                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Oh, no, we have one 

23          more.

24                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Okay.  On the 


 1          Senate side, anyway. 

 2                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Assemblywoman 

 3          Simmon. 

 4                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Yes, thank you.

 5                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  I'm sorry.  Simon.

 6                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Simon.

 7                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  I can't read my own 

 8          writing.  I didn't go to the right schools.

 9                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Ms. Magee, I 

10          have a couple of questions with regard to 

11          communications about the availability of 

12          tuition assistance programs and other 

13          financial aid programs.

14                 I notice that your website has 

15          undergone some change recently, which I think 

16          is great.  It's much more user-friendly, so I 

17          just wanted to thank you for that.  It's 

18          much, much better than it was, so thank you.

19                 But I wanted to ask a question about 

20          the availability of that information in other 

21          languages.  It wasn't clear to me whether 

22          that was -- that there was a toggle for that, 

23          if you needed to have the information on the 

24          website in Spanish, for example, or Chinese 


 1          or another commonly spoken other language.

 2                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  What we have done 

 3          is we have a form that an individual will 

 4          fill out if they need to receive the personal 

 5          information in another language.  And when 

 6          they contact us, we will work with 

 7          whatever -- we will identify someone who can 

 8          interpret in the language that they need, and 

 9          we will have the conversations with them.  

10                 So to date we've only had several -- 

11          maybe two or three individuals who have 

12          contacted us that way.  But we do work with 

13          the Statewide Language Access Program on how 

14          we make that information known and available.

15                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  So the Statewide 

16          Language Access Program is the mechanism by 

17          which students would find out about the fact 

18          that they could avail themselves of this 

19          service?  I'm curious how a student would 

20          know --

21                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  From our website, 

22          when they go to our website, it should be -- 

23          at the bottom of each of our websites should 

24          be information on if you need to receive 


 1          information in another language, to contact 

 2          us.  

 3                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Okay.  And there 

 4          are a number of students with disabilities, 

 5          as you know, who have different and more 

 6          enhanced needs for financial aid.  Is this 

 7          new website now accessible to adaptive 

 8          technology that a lot of these students use?

 9                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  Our website has 

10          always been available for those with adaptive 

11          technology who need it.

12                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  It works with 

13          screen readers and other software?  

14                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  Yes.

15                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Okay.  And you 

16          also told us about the Get On Your Feet Loan 

17          Forgiveness program and the number of 

18          applications you've had.  Who makes the 

19          decision as to whether or not a loan is 

20          forgiven?  And do you have any idea what the 

21          time frame is for the granting of those loan 

22          forgiveness decisions?

23                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  Everyone who 

24          meets the program's eligibility requirements, 


 1          which would be they graduated from a New York 

 2          State high school, a New York State college, 

 3          and continue to reside in New York State, if 

 4          they're working they must be working in New 

 5          York State and making less than $50,000.  If 

 6          they meet all of those eligibility 

 7          requirements and are in one of the three 

 8          eligible federal programs, they will be 

 9          eligible.  No one would be denied if they 

10          meet those eligibility requirements.

11                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Okay.  Thank 

12          you.

13                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.

14                 Thank you very much.

15                 EXECUTIVE VP MAGEE:  Thank you.

16                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Thank you.

17                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Andrew Pallotta, 

18          NYSUT, executive vice president; Barbara 

19          Bowen, president of Professional Staff 

20          Congress; and Jamie Dangler, vice president.  

21          I think that's what it is.

22                 EXEC. VP PALLOTTA:  Senator Young, 

23          Assemblyman Farrell --

24                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Excuse me, this 


 1          ends up in the records (indicating written 

 2          testimony).  And you should talk to the 

 3          smallest part of it.

 4                 EXEC. VP PALLOTTA:  Oh, yes.

 5                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  And you, you've 

 6          been here so much, you know the long part.

 7                 EXEC. VP PALLOTTA:  You will get the 

 8          abbreviated version.

 9                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you very 

10          much.  

11                 EXEC. VP PALLOTTA:  That's my 

12          solemn --

13                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  I know you do.

14                 EXEC. VP PALLOTTA:  Okay.  So thank 

15          you again for having us here today and the 

16          opportunity to testify.

17                 I sit here today with Dr. Jamie 

18          Dangler from UUP and President Barbara 

19          Bowen from PSC, also Vice President 

20          Michael Fabricant from PSC and Chris 

21          Black, the director of legislation for 

22          NYSUT.

23                 You have my written testimony, 

24          I'll give you a quick summary.  


 1                 There is no denying the fact that 

 2          in order to be career-ready today, we 

 3          have to be educated and well-educated, 

 4          and kids need a good college education 

 5          for that.  It's abundantly clear from 

 6          what we've heard today throughout the 

 7          many hours of testimony that each and 

 8          every one of the families in New York 

 9          State needs the State University and the 

10          City University system, and that for 

11          most families this is the only 

12          affordable option that they have.  

13          Therefore, as a state we have a moral 

14          obligation and an economic incentive to 

15          ensure that as many of our of residents are 

16          afforded an opportunity to go to college.  

17          And it requires a real financial investment 

18          into SUNY and CUNY.

19                 The Executive Budget provides 

20          flat funding for core instruction to 

21          both CUNY and -- I will also talk about, 

22          and Dr. Bowen will also talk about, the 

23          situation with CUNY.  With respect to 

24          CUNY, the Executive Budget proposes a 


 1          shift -- that's one way of putting it -- 

 2          of 30 percent of operating costs to New 

 3          York City.  

 4                 I want to make three points with 

 5          respect to funding for SUNY and CUNY 

 6          four-year campuses.  SUNY and CUNY need a 

 7          significant increase in funding this year 

 8          to enable them to fully carry out their 

 9          public mission in educating our students 

10          and our future.  Number two, providing the 

11          funding is the state's responsibility.  And 

12          number three, a big part of that 

13          responsibility is that the state pays its 

14          fair share in operating costs and expenses.  

15                 To ensure this, we urge that a real 

16          maintenance of effort be enacted in this 

17          year's budget.  I want to thank all of you 

18          for passing the MOE for SUNY and CUNY last 

19          year, and I especially want to thank 

20          Assemblymember Glick and also Senator 

21          LaValle for sponsoring the bill and all 

22          the work that they did in continued 

23          advocacy that we saw today at the press 

24          conference.


 1                 While last year's MOE was vetoed, 

 2          the Governor indicated in his veto 

 3          message that it should be dealt with in 

 4          the context of this year's budget.  The 

 5          time is now, and we hope that you can 

 6          work this through with the Governor to 

 7          address this important issue in this 

 8          year's budget. 

 9                 With respect to our community 

10          colleges, I want to thank the members of 

11          the Assembly and the Senate for all the 

12          work that you did in supporting these 

13          campuses last year, and thank you for the 

14          school aid increase that was provided.  

15          Obviously you know the importance of these 

16          campuses to our state's higher public 

17          education systems.  Over 1 million degrees 

18          have been awarded from community colleges 

19          in this state.  

20                 This year the Executive Budget 

21          proposes flat funding for community 

22          colleges.  I can draw your attention to 

23          the charts on page 7, which shows that 

24          both SUNY and CUNY community college 


 1          students are paying the lion's share of 

 2          operating costs in these campuses.  In 

 3          fact, from 2005-2006 to 2015-2016, SUNY 

 4          community college students went from 

 5          paying 39 percent to 43 percent.  And at 

 6          the same time, the state's contribution 

 7          for these costs went from 29 percent to 

 8          26 percent, with the local sponsor's 

 9          share remaining fairly the same.

10                 There's also a similar situation 

11          for CUNY.  The student share went from 

12          about 37 percent to almost 42 percent, 

13          while the state share went from 31 to 26 

14          percent.  And again, the local share 

15          remains constant at about 32 percent.  

16                 Notwithstanding your efforts over 

17          the past few years, we are still below the 

18          2008-2009 state funding levels, and we 

19          request that you increase this to $250 per 

20          FTE student in base aid this year and that 

21          the state develop a multiyear plan to 

22          honor the statutory requirement and 

23          commitment to fund 40 percent.  This is 

24          the year that we say that the state has 


 1          the resources available to do this. 

 2                 On performance-based funding, the 

 3          Executive Budget again provides $30 million 

 4          for performance-based funding:  $18 million 

 5          for SUNY and $12 million for CUNY.  

 6          Performance-based funding is not a new 

 7          idea, and it does not address the SUNY or 

 8          CUNY funding problems.  Other states have 

 9          tried this and had little success.  In 

10          fact, the results on this show that it is 

11          ineffective at best.

12                 We also disagree with SUNY's 

13          initiative to create a $100 million 

14          performance-based funding program.  The 

15          vast majority of the funding for this comes 

16          from the SUNY system programs and campus 

17          funds.  NYSUT urges the Legislature to 

18          reallocate the $30 million for a full-time 

19          faculty initiative to enhance quality and 

20          provide students with the advisement and 

21          counseling they most desperately need.

22                 Full-time faculty endowment.  

23          Speaking of this, we must be able to 

24          create a state endowment, which we've 


 1          talked about for the last couple of 

 2          years, and be able to fund this.  On 

 3          SUNY hospitals, with respect to what we 

 4          have been up against for the past couple 

 5          of years, I want to thank you for coming 

 6          to their rescue last year, again, and 

 7          providing the funding that was needed.  

 8          Unfortunately, the State Budget this 

 9          year cuts the SUNY hospitals by 

10          $19 million, the same exact restoration 

11          that you made last year.  So we ask that 

12          you restore this funding and increase 

13          funding to the 2011 level of $128 million.  

14                 Dr. Dangler will also speak about 

15          the SUNY Downstate situation in a moment.

16                 NYSUT urges the Legislature to 

17          continue to invest in the Student 

18          Opportunity Programs that provide greater 

19          access and remediation.  We've heard much 

20          about this today and the support that this 

21          has.  We support updating the TAP program, 

22          making it more workable for today's 

23          students, and also the passage of the 

24          DREAM Act.


 1                 In conclusion, I want to point out 

 2          that the final level of funding for public 

 3          higher education in this year's enacted 

 4          budget all depends upon the higher 

 5          education table target.  In recent years, 

 6          the table target amount for higher ed has 

 7          not afforded you the opportunity to fund 

 8          SUNY and CUNY at the level these 

 9          institutions deserve.  This year presents a 

10          real opportunity to change the funding 

11          situation at these campuses.  NYSUT urges 

12          you to set a higher table target that will 

13          enable you to make a real and meaningful 

14          investment in public higher education.  

15                 Thank you again for all of the work 

16          that you've done, and I now turn it over to 

17          Dr. Dangler from UUP.

18                 VICE PRESIDENT DANGLER:  Thank 

19          you, Andy.

20                 Chairwoman Young, Chairman 

21          Farrell, distinguished members of the 

22          Senate Finance and Assembly Ways and 

23          Means Committee, thank you for providing 

24          United University Professions with the 


 1          opportunity to testify today.  My name 

 2          is Jamie Dangler, and I'm UUP's vice 

 3          president for academics.  I'm here today 

 4          on behalf of UUP President Fred Kowal, 

 5          who could not join us.

 6                 UUP represents more than 35,000 

 7          academic and professional faculty and staff 

 8          at SUNY state-operated academic 

 9          institutions, health science centers, and 

10          teaching hospitals.  

11                 First I'd like to echo Andy's thanks 

12          for your strong bipartisan support for a 

13          policy that commits to fully funding base 

14          budget needs for our public universities, 

15          including our teaching hospitals.  And we 

16          are especially grateful to the leadership 

17          of Higher Ed Committee chairs 

18          Assemblymember Glick and Senator LaValle.  

19                 We hope, as Andy stated, that a 

20          maintenance of effort can be negotiated as 

21          part of the coming budget.  We also 

22          appreciate your steadfast support for 

23          SUNY's highly successful opportunity 

24          programs, EOP and the EOCs, and we urge 


 1          you to expand their funding by adding 

 2          $50 million.  UUP also proposes 

 3          $47.3 million in additional base funding 

 4          for SUNY state-operated campuses to cover 

 5          collective bargaining obligations, 

 6          repayment of deficit reduction monies 

 7          withheld from employee paychecks over a 

 8          two-year period, and contractual salary 

 9          increases for 2016 and 2017.

10                 An additional $8.2 million is 

11          necessary to cover mandatory costs for 

12          utilities and building maintenance.  We 

13          heard this morning that SUNY has requested 

14          a higher maintenance of effort figure, and 

15          that is probably because they added the 

16          cost of implementing their new minimum wage 

17          provision, which we did not add into our 

18          proposal.  We ask that you restore the SUNY 

19          hospital subsidy to its 2010 level of 

20          $128 million, and we support SUNY's budget 

21          request to forgive $40 million in debt 

22          service.

23                 As you know, the three teaching 

24          hospitals -- Upstate, Downstate, and 


 1          Stony Brook -- are economic engines in 

 2          their communities.  They provide 

 3          essential healthcare services, 

 4          especially to low-income and underserved 

 5          residents.  They supply the current and 

 6          future workforce for this critical 

 7          industry.  In addition, SUNY's four 

 8          academic medical centers generate 

 9          approximately $700 million of the 

10          state's $2 billion in federal graduate 

11          medical education funding, and that 

12          represents 10 percent of the entire federal 

13          allocation.  

14                 We thank you, as Andy has said, for 

15          protecting Downstate's public mission from 

16          misguided privatization schemes.  

17                 We continue to advocate for a 

18          Brooklyn healthcare plan that would 

19          dedicate a portion of the $1.2 billion 

20          Healthcare Refinancing Program to develop 

21          four SUNY Downstate owned and operated 

22          ambulatory care centers.  This would 

23          support medical education and the provision 

24          of vital health care to thousands of 


 1          underserved and underinsured patients in 

 2          the Brooklyn area.  In collaboration with 

 3          other Brooklyn safety net hospitals, our 

 4          plan calls for comprehensive ambulatory 

 5          care throughout the borough.  

 6                 We also urge you to create a public 

 7          higher education quality endowment 

 8          initiative to rebuild academic departments 

 9          depleted by historic underfunding and to 

10          transition highly qualified part-time 

11          faculty and staff to full-time positions.  

12          Currently, more than 6,000 faculty are 

13          part-time teaching faculty at SUNY's 

14          state-operated campuses, and more than 

15          4,000 are full-time faculty who are not on 

16          the tenure track.  

17                 A little while ago we heard SUNY 

18          report that more than 900 new faculty were 

19          hired since 2011, but the part-time/ 

20          full-time ratio has not changed much, if at 

21          all, since then.  Currently, 22 percent of 

22          SUNY's faculty are full-time but not 

23          eligible for tenure; therefore, they are 

24          not doing the full complement of research 


 1          service, teaching work, accreditation 

 2          work, et cetera, that is required at our 

 3          institutions.  And 34 percent are 

 4          part-time adjuncts, a significant 

 5          proportion.  

 6                 It's also not clear to us how many 

 7          of the new hires are research faculty as 

 8          opposed to teaching faculty.  So the 

 9          questions of services to our students are 

10          certainly very significant. 

11                 The Executive Budget continues to 

12          set aside $18 million of state Operating 

13          Aid for performance-based funding, which 

14          would continue this year's level.  But what 

15          the Executive Budget does not acknowledge 

16          is that in addition to the original 

17          $18 million, SUNY diverted an additional 

18          $82 million from other funding sources to 

19          support performance-based funding this 

20          year.  

21                 Performance-based funding is a 

22          market-based accountability scheme that 

23          serves to further avoid adequately funding 

24          public higher ed, and there's a disconnect 


 1          between New York State's chronic 

 2          underfunding of our public education system 

 3          and its expectations of high performance.  

 4          Performance-based funding is not the way to 

 5          undo years of disinvestment that continues 

 6          to undermine the ability of SUNY campuses 

 7          to achieve the very goals that 

 8          performance-based funding aims to achieve.

 9                 In addition, public medical 

10          education, as you know, is so critical for 

11          our state, and SUNY Buffalo's Health 

12          Science Center has the difficult challenge 

13          of providing high-quality medical training 

14          for its residents without having its own 

15          clinical hospital.  UUP is proposing a 

16          brand new program, the Buffalo Healthcare 

17          Teaching Fellows Program, that would 

18          provide the focused and time-intensive 

19          teaching and guidance that residents need 

20          in order to receive the breadth and depth 

21          of experience that residencies should 

22          provide.  And it also provides 

23          accountability needed to ensure a 

24          high-quality medical education.


 1                 Now, a while ago you heard the SUNY 

 2          chancellor say that SUNY's TeachNY Advisory 

 3          Council's recommendations would address the 

 4          immediate teacher certification problems 

 5          that an Assemblymember asked her to 

 6          address.  But that group has not been 

 7          focused on the pressing crisis we are 

 8          currently facing.  While enrollments in our 

 9          state's P-12 schools are actually 

10          increasing, especially in high-needs and 

11          diverse urban and suburban areas, there are 

12          multiple indicators that teacher shortages 

13          are worsening, with particular implications 

14          for the creation of a diverse teaching 

15          force.  

16                 Enrollment in the state's teacher 

17          education programs at public and private 

18          institutions is plummeting.  It was down 

19          40 percent between 2008 and 2013, and we've 

20          certainly seen dramatic decreases at SUNY's 

21          17 campuses that have teacher education 

22          programs, including Fredonia and many 

23          others.

24                 The misguided implementation in 2014 


 1          of inappropriate and costly high-stakes 

 2          certification requirements, combined with 

 3          punitive and unfair teacher evaluations and 

 4          receivership mandates, is discouraging 

 5          young adults from pursuing teaching careers 

 6          and creating barriers for adult learners to 

 7          enter the field.

 8                 To meet the challenge, UUP proposes 

 9          that the state provide $15 million to 

10          support a new SUNY Recruiting and Educating 

11          Teachers For All program, modeled after the 

12          highly successful EOP program.  This would 

13          help address the worsening crisis of 

14          recruiting and retaining teachers in 

15          high-needs districts, and it would increase 

16          the participation rate of underrepresented 

17          and economically disadvantaged individuals 

18          in teaching careers, which is sorely 

19          needed.  

20                 We also call for the state to stop 

21          outsourcing the quality control and 

22          accountability for teacher certification 

23          tests to for-profit vendors.  The state 

24          currently, without cost, can contract with 


 1          educational vendors to develop and 

 2          administer tests.  The vendor profits 

 3          directly from students who pay to take and 

 4          retake tests.  The vendor is paid 

 5          regardless of whether the tests are 

 6          accurate, valid, or fair.  And they 

 7          actually profit from faulty exams that 

 8          students may have to take and retake.  

 9                 This is currently the situation with 

10          all four of the state's teacher 

11          certification exams and assessments.  All 

12          are administered by Pearson.  Students are 

13          paying up to $1,000 to take and retake 

14          faulty exams.  

15                 We propose that SED take back 

16          responsibility for exam administration and 

17          fee collection.  We also propose that there 

18          be an immediate and thorough evaluation of 

19          the new certification package, since there 

20          are so many problems -- content problems, 

21          computer test format problems -- and the 

22          edTPA, which is really taking over the 

23          student teaching experience, is not working 

24          well in many specialty areas.


 1                 Finally, we urge you to reject the 

 2          Executive Budget proposals to reduce the 

 3          state support for its retirees.  That is, 

 4          please reject tiering of state 

 5          contributions to retiree health insurance 

 6          premiums based on years of service, capping 

 7          the state's reimbursement of Medicare 

 8          Part B premiums, and ending state 

 9          reimbursement of increased Medicare Part B 

10          costs for higher-income retirees under 

11          IRMAA.  

12                 We also urge you to support the 

13          maintenance of a strong economic foundation 

14          for a high quality and productive life for 

15          the state's retirees by raising the maximum 

16          earning allowance from $30,000 to $35,000.

17                 Thank you.  

18                 EXEC. VP PALLOTTA:  Now we'll hear 

19          from Dr. Bowen.

20                 PRESIDENT BOWEN:  Good afternoon, 

21          and thank you so much, Chairs.  Thank you 

22          Chairpersons Young and Farrell, and also 

23          Chairperson LaValle -- who's not here, but 

24          Chairperson Glick is here, ably 


 1          representing the Higher Ed wing -- and 

 2          thank you members.  I especially want to 

 3          thank you for staying through this long day 

 4          and for continuing to ask such powerful 

 5          questions.

 6                 I'm very proud to be joined by 

 7          Dr. Mike Fabricant, who is a professor at 

 8          CUNY, and also by my colleagues here from 

 9          NYSUT and UUP.  

10                 Thank you very much for giving me 

11          the opportunity to speak on behalf of the 

12          27,000 members of the Professional Staff 

13          Congress, CUNY.  We've heard a lot about 

14          CUNY today, and I hope to be able to answer 

15          some of the questions that came up and 

16          didn't seem to be fully answered earlier.  

17                 I want to first thank you, 

18          legislators, for the exceptional work you 

19          did in the last round of budget 

20          negotiations, especially for your work that 

21          others have mentioned on gaining the near 

22          unanimous support for the maintenance of 

23          effort bill which was sponsored by 

24          Chairpersons Glick and LaValle.  You really 


 1          did a splendid job on that, and we are 

 2          hoping, with your support and your help, to 

 3          have a structure-maintaining effort, which 

 4          is really just maintaining the commitment 

 5          to have that built into the budget in 

 6          future years.  

 7                 I have longer testimony; I'm not 

 8          going to read it all.  There are many other 

 9          things to thank you for, and there are many 

10          points that we want to make, some you've 

11          heard by my colleagues already.  But I want 

12          to concentrate on two things.  

13                 I really have two messages.  One is 

14          that the $240 million that was line-itemed 

15          by the Governor for the first time, with 

16          the specific narrative of being used for 

17          retroactive raises for fair and affordable 

18          contracts for the CUNY employees, that that 

19          item must stay in the budget and, in fact, 

20          if it is to cover the need for retroactive 

21          raises to keep us merely on a par with 

22          other public employees, that that amount in 

23          fact even needs to be raised.  Because time 

24          has progressed since we first named that, 


 1          there's another year of retroactive money 

 2          needed, and the Governor makes it clear 

 3          that that amount is for the unions, plural, 

 4          not just for our union.  

 5                 So I want to start by saying that 

 6          that item -- whatever other negotiations 

 7          you undertake, and however you are able to 

 8          finish the negotiating -- I certainly 

 9          support Vice President Pallotta's very 

10          strong -- very strong call to increase the 

11          table target.  

12                 But one thing, we rarely get a line 

13          item for $240 million.  The Governor 

14          recognizes the need to settle those 

15          contracts.  Many of you have asked today, 

16          Would that settle the contract?  No, that 

17          amount isn't sufficient.  But it would go a 

18          long way toward making that possible, and 

19          we certainly can talk about that in more 

20          detail.

21                 So that's the first thing that I 

22          would like to make sure remains.  

23                 Second, and a larger issue, is that 

24          the sweeping and unprecedented so-called 


 1          cost-sharing proposal by the Governor to, 

 2          quote, require New York City to cover 

 3          $485 million of the -- that's about a 

 4          third, almost a third of the state 

 5          contribution to the senior colleges at 

 6          CUNY, that that proposal must not stand.  

 7          And also that it can mask the real issue 

 8          that I think should be before us, and the 

 9          real issue is that, under Governor Cuomo, 

10          there has been a steady decrease in the 

11          state's contribution to CUNY.  

12                 So while many of us are talking 

13          about this unique and troubling proposal 

14          for so-called cost sharing, which if it 

15          were truly a cut -- I'll answer, I know the 

16          chancellor earlier didn't answer -- maybe, 

17          you know, I will say more boldly, then, 

18          that it would be absolutely devastating if 

19          that were applied as a cut.  

20                 But I don't want us to focus so much 

21          on the politics and the complexity of that 

22          proposal that we miss something very, very 

23          important, which is that under Governor 

24          Cuomo the contribution to CUNY from state 


 1          funding has in fact decreased.  And I'd 

 2          like to talk a little bit about that.  

 3                 Our new analysis -- which again is 

 4          given in more detail and with a graph in 

 5          the supporting material -- our new analysis 

 6          shows that Governor Cuomo's budgets have 

 7          led to a 3 percent decline in state funding 

 8          for CUNY's four-year colleges.  That's 

 9          between the beginning of Governor Cuomo's 

10          period in office until 2015-2016.  

11                 The Governor's press statements and 

12          his budget books proclaim big aggregate 

13          investment increases, they cite increases 

14          in nominal dollars, but once you factor in 

15          rising enrollment and you factor in 

16          inflation, you will see that the funds for 

17          CUNY for the four-year colleges have 

18          actually been cut during the Governor's 

19          term of office.  

20                 The truth is that after five years 

21          of tuition increases, five years of SUNY 

22          2020, Governor Cuomo's signature public 

23          higher education policy, the result is that 

24          the state's investment in each CUNY senior 


 1          college student is, in real dollars, less 

 2          than it was before the Governor took 

 3          office.  

 4                 And really that's the only way to 

 5          measure investment.  You can't leave out 

 6          the fact that enrollment has grown by 

 7          20 percent in some areas.  You can't leave 

 8          out inflation.  If you just look at the 

 9          nominal dollars, you might see an increase.  

10          But when we look at where the money counts, 

11          which is how much is spent on each student, 

12          how much does New York State believe in 

13          investing in each student, you will see a 

14          drop in investment.  

15                 Since the 2008 recession, which is a 

16          benchmark for many of the things that the 

17          Legislature is rightly committed to 

18          restoring, since the 2008 recession per-FTE 

19          state funding for CUNY's senior colleges 

20          has decreased by a full 17 percent.  So we 

21          are down 3 percent during the Governor's 

22          term, and still 17 percent behind where the 

23          state was at the recession, pre-recession.  

24          And that again includes an adjustment for 


 1          inflation.  

 2                 The state's economy and budget have 

 3          rebounded dramatically since the recession, 

 4          but CUNY has been largely ignored -- until 

 5          this year, when the news was not good.  In 

 6          fact, an analysis by New York City 

 7          Comptroller Scott Stringer that he recently 

 8          delivered when he testified revealed that 

 9          if the state contributions to CUNY had 

10          grown at the same rate as the state's 

11          operating budget over the last seven years, 

12          the system would have received an 

13          additional $637 million.  

14                 So as the budget grew in the state, 

15          the proportion of the budget that was 

16          dedicated to CUNY senior colleges has 

17          actually shrunk.  It has not kept up.  It's 

18          a fairly small proportion, but it has not 

19          kept up.  

20                 So that's why our proposal today 

21          will sound a little different, and here we 

22          do support absolutely what the chancellor 

23          said.  The real issue is that there should 

24          be more investment in CUNY.  I know many of 


 1          us are preoccupied with how we going to get 

 2          out from under the proposal of cost-sharing 

 3          $485 million and how we must, absolutely 

 4          must hold on to the $240 million initiative 

 5          by the Governor to settle these contracts.  

 6                 But I also want to call your 

 7          attention to the fact that what is really 

 8          needed, if New York State wants to make a 

 9          serious investment in the students who 

10          attend CUNY, is the beginning of a recovery 

11          from that loss of money that has occurred 

12          during Governor Cuomo's term of office.

13                 I was reminded, in thinking about 

14          this, of Cornel West, the philosopher 

15          Cornel West, who was asked a question in 

16          response to another budgetary decision.  He 

17          asked legislators, "Just what kind of 

18          culture do you really want?"  

19                 And I would ask New York State, Just 

20          what kind of university do you really want?  

21          If New York wants anything other than a 

22          university that is constrained to offer 

23          students less than the education they 

24          deserve, then it's time for a change in 


 1          budgetary policy, and I think we should 

 2          look at who attends CUNY.  

 3                 This has been mentioned earlier.  

 4          The students at CUNY are 75 -- the 

 5          undergraduates are 75 percent people of 

 6          color:  Latino, black, and Asian.  More 

 7          than half of our students have incomes 

 8          under $30,000 a year for the family.  Forty 

 9          percent are new immigrants.  More than 

10          40 percent work.  This is a population that 

11          has been radically underserved by much of 

12          the rest of the culture and society and 

13          economy.  

14                 CUNY does something astonishing with 

15          these students -- not for, but with these 

16          students -- and that's what's at risk 

17          through the steady, steady drip, drip, drip 

18          of underfunding.  

19                 So that's why our proposal to you 

20          is -- not only -- these two things.  Right?  

21          One is to hold on very tight to the fact 

22          that the Governor acknowledged there needs 

23          to be money for retroactive pay if our 

24          contracts are going to be settled.  And two 


 1          is to look beyond the false, diversionary 

 2          narrative about cost sharing to the city 

 3          and look at what's really happening to 

 4          state funding -- which is that it has 

 5          diminished under Governor Cuomo.  

 6                 That is ironic, to say the least, 

 7          because we have a surplus in the state and 

 8          also because the Governor has made us his 

 9          hallmark, really, in trying to address 

10          inequality.  He has named that as something 

11          that's essential to him.  He has named 

12          progressive values as essential, and he has 

13          named economic development as essential.  

14                 No institution does more for 

15          economic development than the City 

16          University of New York.  Of course joined 

17          by SUNY, and I feel very strongly that SUNY 

18          also plays a central role there, but I'm 

19          focused just for a moment on the city.  I 

20          mean, higher education plays that central 

21          role.  And for our Governor to stand for 

22          progressive values and not see the 

23          importance of investing in CUNY, a central 

24          historical progressive institution, I think 


 1          is shortsighted.  And we're calling on you 

 2          to make sure that does not stand in the 

 3          final budget.

 4                 I want to say one thing about the 

 5          history that leads to this idea of cost 

 6          sharing, just say a couple of things and 

 7          then quickly wrap up.  It's pure 

 8          revisionist history that it's time for the 

 9          city to take over a share of the cost for 

10          the four-year colleges of CUNY.  The 

11          four-year colleges of CUNY are funded on 

12          exactly the same basis as the four-year 

13          colleges of SUNY in terms of state funding.  

14          The community colleges of CUNY are funded 

15          on the same basis as the community colleges 

16          of SUNY.  

17                 Moreover, the idea that this shift 

18          in responsibility took place just at the 

19          fiscal crisis is not correct.  It was 

20          really under Governor Rockefeller -- who is 

21          such a supporter and expander of the State 

22          University -- Governor Rockefeller, seeing 

23          the increase in enrollments after the 

24          G.I. Bill, invested very strongly in both 


 1          the State and the City University and 

 2          invested in the City University so that the 

 3          state, by 1974, before the fiscal crisis 

 4          move, the state was already covering 

 5          45 percent of the costs of the CUNY 

 6          four-year colleges.  

 7                 And in fact it's the norm elsewhere 

 8          across the country for four-year colleges 

 9          to be the responsibility for funding by the 

10          states, not the localities.

11                 So let me just say, in closing, that 

12          yes, in answer to Senator Stavisky's 

13          question, Does the lack of a contract hurt 

14          recruitment?  Absolutely.  I can tell you 

15          right now about department chairs who say 

16          they cannot recruit the faculty and staff 

17          they need because of the lack of a raise.  

18                 And we ask you to look at the other 

19          proposals we've made throughout our 

20          testimony.  We join our colleagues in 

21          calling for an increase of $250 in 

22          FTE funding for the community colleges.  We 

23          strongly support a maintenance of effort 

24          renewal, and we do not believe tuition 


 1          increases are the way to fund CUNY.  That's 

 2          not a stable basis, it's strategically not 

 3          the right way to fund CUNY.  

 4                 So I'll just end by saying we urge 

 5          you to look at our testimony and to say 

 6          that CUNY needs more state funding, not 

 7          less.  CUNY's half-million students deserve 

 8          a strong, well-funded university.  Anything 

 9          short of a renewal of investment represents 

10          a political decision to make sure that our 

11          students fail.  I know that's not the 

12          decision you want to make, so I ask you to 

13          join us in finding an alternative course 

14          and funding CUNY.  

15                 Thank you very much.  

16                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.

17                 Deborah Glick.

18                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Well, let me 

19          start with the UUP comments.  

20                 Do you have any idea of the 

21          breakdown in SUNY regarding new faculty?  

22          Is that something that you are dependent on 

23          the systems for or through the union?  Do 

24          you have a sense of the breakdown between 


 1          full-time in the classroom and full-time 

 2          researchers?  

 3                 VICE PRESIDENT DANGLER:  It's 

 4          actually difficult for us to discern the 

 5          difference between in-the-classroom 

 6          faculty and researchers based on the 

 7          data that we get from SUNY.  We 

 8          certainly can differentiate 

 9          part-time/full-time, those on the tenure 

10          track, those not on the tenure track.  But 

11          we don't know exactly what their 

12          professional obligation is based on the 

13          data that we get.  

14                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  On the issue 

15          of the edTPA, my friend Assemblymember 

16          Lifton has been very vigorous on this 

17          particular issue.  In the teaching programs 

18          they have seen, apparently, reductions in 

19          the number of students that are 

20          participating.  

21                 Do you think that that is in part 

22          because of what students are hearing about 

23          the methodology that's being used for the 

24          certification?  Or are there other factors? 


 1                 VICE PRESIDENT DANGLER:  I think 

 2          it's really a perfect storm of a number 

 3          of things coming together.  So as I 

 4          indicated, I think the declines started 

 5          even before the new certification exams 

 6          were instituted.  And I think that had 

 7          more to do with what was going on in the 

 8          K-12 world and kind of the more general 

 9          denigration and deprofessionalization of 

10          teaching.  

11                 We hear from a lot of our students, 

12          even those who are committed to entering 

13          and finishing teacher education programs, 

14          "My parents are telling me not to do this, 

15          my neighbors" -- I mean, so that's part of 

16          what we're fighting against.

17                 But the other thing is that the new 

18          certification package has just exacerbated 

19          that pretty significantly.  And in addition 

20          to declining enrollments, students going 

21          into teacher education programs, the other 

22          thing we're seeing is the brain drain.  The 

23          students who are in those programs and will 

24          finish those programs, a growing proportion 


 1          of them are not completing certification in 

 2          New York State.  

 3                 And so one indicator is registration 

 4          for the edTPA.  We were at a meeting last 

 5          week and one of our campus program 

 6          directors said 50 percent of the students 

 7          who graduated from our teacher education 

 8          program last year did not register to 

 9          complete the edTPA, meaning they have 

10          decided, because probably they feel they 

11          cannot complete it for a variety of 

12          reasons, they've just written off the 

13          possibility of getting certified in 

14          New York State.

15                 And on top of that, the recruitment 

16          from out-of-state school districts has 

17          really been increasing.  We have some 

18          figures in our report about that.

19                 So the teacher certification debacle 

20          in New York State is becoming widely known 

21          across the country, and recruiters are 

22          coming to recruit our students away.  So 

23          it's both declining enrollments but, among 

24          those who are in our programs -- and again, 


 1          public and private programs -- a subset of 

 2          those students deciding, I can't afford to 

 3          try to get certified, or they're having 

 4          problems with particular exams, whether 

 5          it's the edTPA or one of the other three, 

 6          and they're not planning to stay in 

 7          New York State to teach.  

 8                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  If they want 

 9          to stay in New York and they don't want to 

10          be certified, they could teach in private 

11          schools, correct?  

12                 VICE PRESIDENT DANGLER:  Well, I 

13          don't -- they could, potentially, at 

14          least in the short term.  I think 

15          certainly the requirements for 

16          completion of the edTPA are much less 

17          rigorous.  I'm not really sure how good a 

18          possibility there is that they could stay 

19          in teaching without getting certified in 

20          New York State.  But certainly that is an 

21          initial pathway that some students are 

22          likely to try.  

23                 And we do have a significant number 

24          of teachers who are not certified in some 


 1          of those schools.  

 2                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Maybe I can 

 3          just ask you to sort of opine on the 

 4          general condition of the facilities that 

 5          are around the state.  We have a rather 

 6          small amount of capital allocated in this 

 7          budget, and we've heard from the systems 

 8          that there are substantially more needs.  

 9                 What are you hearing?  And are there 

10          areas, for example, if you're teaching in 

11          one of the STEM disciplines, then maybe the 

12          lab's facilities are antiquated and are not 

13          up to -- if you're trying to do work on 

14          your own with your students in engineering, 

15          the types of equipment might not be -- so 

16          can you -- 

17                 VICE PRESIDENT DANGLER:  Yeah, we 

18          are certainly hearing some of that.  And 

19          I think that there's a lot of variation 

20          across the campuses.  But I think one 

21          pattern that needs to be explored is 

22          this:  That we have seen some 

23          significant improvements in capital -- 

24          for example, new science buildings to 


 1          address the declining infrastructure for 

 2          labs and those things.  So that is 

 3          happening and has happened under 

 4          previous capital allocations.  There are 

 5          still many that are not up to speed.

 6                 But I think what we're also hearing 

 7          is the less, you know, focused-on 

 8          disciplines and areas are likely to be 

 9          neglected.  So you can sometimes have 

10          outstanding facilities in some areas, 

11          literally in some buildings, but then the 

12          more basic arts and sciences, humanities, 

13          those buildings are often less likely to 

14          get to the top of the list.  So I think 

15          it's a mixed bag.  

16                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Thank you very 

17          much.  

18                 Professor Bowen, if you could talk a 

19          little bit about the issue of recruiting 

20          new professors and how the uncertainty 

21          around having a -- solving the collective 

22          bargaining agreement, what impact has that 

23          had at the City University?  

24                 PRESIDENT BOWEN:  A tremendous 


 1          impact, and maybe Mike Fabricant will also 

 2          say a word about it.  But as you know, it's 

 3          a long process to recruit a full-time 

 4          faculty member.  It takes several months,  

 5          sometimes six months, because it's a 

 6          national competition.

 7                 So people are looking -- they're in 

 8          California or they're based in Ohio, 

 9          wherever else, and they're considering a 

10          job.  I myself have heard from department 

11          chairs that they will go to their top 

12          candidate on the list, and the person will 

13          say, I really want to teach at CUNY because 

14          I believe in the mission -- and this is why 

15          I came to CUNY.  I know exactly why people 

16          come to CUNY, because it's why I came to 

17          CUNY, you believe in the mission, you 

18          believe in the great intellectually 

19          explosive possibility of a really varied 

20          student body with a tremendous range of 

21          experience that they bring to the 

22          classroom, and then you also are reaching 

23          students who otherwise wouldn't have the 

24          chance for college.


 1                 That's why people want to come to 

 2          CUNY.  Then they hear what the salaries are 

 3          and then they look at where they might 

 4          possibly live, and it's those two things 

 5          that make them say, I'm sorry, I'm going to 

 6          turn down the job.  

 7                 We have heard from department chairs 

 8          who will go through several of their top 

 9          candidates.  They'll work very hard to 

10          recruit people, they'll work very hard to 

11          recruit candidates of color in higher ed, 

12          and those candidates will say -- I mean, 

13          I've heard from somebody with tears in her 

14          eyes say "I'm turning it down because I 

15          can't honestly and responsibly bring my own 

16          family into a city where I'm going to have 

17          to live literally two hours away in order 

18          to afford anything."  

19                 And the salary is $40,000 below 

20          Rutgers or University of Connecticut.  

21          People are willing to make some sacrifice 

22          to come to CUNY, but not to give up their 

23          entire career prospects because there's so 

24          little for research, and also to put their 


 1          own families in jeopardy.  So we are 

 2          hearing it every day.  Every day.  

 3                 I don't know if, Mike, you wanted to 

 4          say something.

 5                 DR. FABRICANT:  The only thing I 

 6          would add is that it takes a couple of  

 7          things.  It takes a long, long time to 

 8          build a department.  A very long time, for 

 9          a quality department.  It takes a very, 

10          very short time to destroy it.  

11                 And so some part of what we're also 

12          beginning to see is the out-migration of 

13          some of our best faculty who have other 

14          choices in other parts of the country and 

15          other parts of the region.  I mean, it's 

16          not an accident that when we did our own 

17          little survey about five, six years ago -- 

18          not every university, but most of the major 

19          universities in the region were included -- 

20          we were third from the bottom.  That was 

21          five years ago, before this -- basically 

22          impasse regarding contract and 

23          negotiations.

24                 So we're clearly somewhere near or 


 1          at the bottom in terms of salaries of 

 2          faculty in the region.  And that puts us in 

 3          an essentially increasingly uncompetitive 

 4          situation with other folks.  

 5                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Thank you.  My 

 6          time has expired.  

 7                 PRESIDENT BOWEN:  Thank you.

 8                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.

 9                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Senator Toby 

10          Stavisky.

11                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  Ladies and 

12          gentlemen, you've heard the testimony from 

13          the two chancellors.  Is there anything you 

14          wish to comment on or agree with or 

15          disagree with?  

16                 VICE PRESIDENT DANGLER:  Well, if 

17          I may --

18                 PRESIDENT BOWEN:  Sure.

19                 VICE PRESIDENT DANGLER:  -- 

20          again, I think that the chancellor, the 

21          SUNY chancellor's emphasis on all of the 

22          new initiatives is very encouraging on 

23          the one hand, but I think that what we 

24          are seeing is increasing concern that 


 1          the basic activities that our 

 2          institutions need to fulfill, their 

 3          basic missions, are being put on the 

 4          back burner.  

 5                 So we are concerned -- the 

 6          projections for the increased number of 

 7          students in SUNY, when we hear that, that 

 8          immediately raises questions across our 

 9          campuses:  How are we going to do that?  

10          And certainly how are we going to do that 

11          in a high-quality way, particularly when we 

12          know that our existing students need more 

13          services, more attention, more mentoring, 

14          more clinical experiences?  So that's one 

15          important situation.  

16                 I think the other thing I would also 

17          be concerned about has to do with the 

18          tuition situation.  And aside from what we 

19          learned from our members and our -- I'm the 

20          parent of a SUNY student, so I can tell you 

21          that it isn't just the tuition increases.  

22          What has also been happening are increases 

23          in fees.  And when you mention, for 

24          example, the STEM fields, my son is in the 


 1          sciences.  Books, supplies -- he can easily 

 2          spend a $100 to $150 for one lab manual.  

 3                 So you know, when we want to recruit 

 4          students from a variety of backgrounds into 

 5          these kinds of fields, we have to recognize 

 6          that in addition to the tuition, many of 

 7          the things that the universities can't fund 

 8          anymore is being funded by the students 

 9          through increased fees.  So I was concerned 

10          about the lack of attention to that.  

11                 PRESIDENT BOWEN:  Thank you, Senator 

12          Stavisky.  If I could add in, we certainly 

13          agree with the chancellor of CUNY and his 

14          statement that CUNY needs more funding.  He 

15          added that to his statement.  I don't think 

16          he put a specific number on that, but I 

17          think that was an important recognition.

18                 Obviously we agree strongly that the 

19          contract must be settled.  He said that 

20          that was a top priority for him.  I did 

21          not, however, hear him insist that the 

22          $240 million must remain in an enacted 

23          budget.  I hope that that is the position 

24          that he has taken.  And also that 


 1          $240 million needs to be supplemented if we 

 2          are actually going to get to a contract 

 3          deal.  So we feel that very strongly.

 4                 And also I know that the legislators 

 5          asked him several times about the proposal 

 6          to do "cost sharing," and certainly one 

 7          doesn't want to step in between discussions 

 8          that are already ongoing with the city and 

 9          the state.  I understand that.  But let me 

10          just be frank.  What's in the budget is a 

11          cut.  It's a proposed cut.  It appears in 

12          parentheses on the page.  And it's page 100 

13          in the state budget document.

14                 And so until that is filled in, that 

15          is a cut, and that is a 30 percent cut in 

16          the state's allocation to the four-year 

17          colleges at CUNY with the, I would say 

18          respectfully, thin justification that this 

19          would align the funding with the governance 

20          structure.  In fact, it would misalign CUNY 

21          funding with SUNY funding, and it's based 

22          on a fiction about what city and state 

23          shares of the funding for four-year 

24          colleges should be.  


 1                 In fact, the city does contribute to 

 2          the four-year colleges in a way that's 

 3          anomalous around the state.  Most cities do 

 4          not contribute anything to four-year 

 5          colleges.  Because there are some 

 6          associate's programs in our four-year 

 7          schools, the city contributes because the 

 8          city is responsible for contributions on 

 9          the associate degrees.  That's why that 

10          small amount is there.

11                 So I would make -- I would have a 

12          different emphasis, let me put it that way, 

13          than the emphasis I heard from the 

14          chancellor about the urgency of that 

15          amount.  But I would also say let's not be 

16          so caught up in trying to think through a 

17          complicated political proposal about city 

18          and state and lose sight of the fact that 

19          what we really should concentrate on is 

20          that funding for CUNY has gone down, and 

21          despite this Governor's presentation of 

22          this state as interested in economic 

23          development and public higher education and 

24          having a signature proposal like SUNY 2020, 


 1          the result has actually been defunding 

 2          CUNY.  

 3                 And we just have to face, as a 

 4          state, whether that's our political 

 5          decision, to defund the college that 

 6          educates working-class people, people of 

 7          color, moderate-income people in the city, 

 8          or do we want to fund that adequately.  

 9                 And that's why I am very happy to 

10          have you to work in partnership with.

11                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  Thank you.

12                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

13                 Assembly?  

14                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.  

15                 Further questions?

16                 Good.  Any further -- you?

17                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Thank you.  Hi.  

18                 Thank you.  This is not a question, 

19          just a closing comment.  I thank you all 

20          for testifying.  I really appreciate 

21          Barbara Bowen's testimony about the true 

22          reality of the history of funding for CUNY 

23          and the difference between rhetoric and 

24          reality, about whether we treat CUNY or 


 1          SUNY differently.  

 2                 And I feel quite strongly that it is 

 3          not acceptable for the state to start down 

 4          the road of treating CUNY as the, I don't 

 5          know, the orphan child.  Not to imply that 

 6          SUNY is getting too much, just the 

 7          opposite.  But this is truly a disturbing 

 8          proposal this year in the budget.

 9                 I also appreciate all of you 

10          highlighting that not investing in our 

11          higher education programs is the equivalent 

12          of not investing in our infrastructure.  

13          And the correlation -- and your chancellors 

14          made the points earlier -- that it's 

15          economic development to invest in quality 

16          education.  

17                 And then the commissioner of the 

18          State Education Department was here going 

19          into detail about the necessity of ensuring 

20          we have an educated workforce.  And so the 

21          fact that we are spending an enormous 

22          amount of money in programs we call 

23          economic development -- we had a hearing 

24          last week where I couldn't get any answers 


 1          on how much of a return we're getting on 

 2          those -- and yet there's plenty of research 

 3          on the return you get from investing in 

 4          higher education, particularly for 

 5          low-income students, and how much that 

 6          turns around the amount of earnings they 

 7          have and what they can invest back in their 

 8          communities.  So I appreciate your all 

 9          bringing us back to that reality.

10                 And because I'm the wife of a 

11          pissed-off CUNY professor, I will not 

12          comment on the fact that you don't have a 

13          contract.  

14                 (Laughter.)

15                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Thank you.

16                 PRESIDENT BOWEN:  Thank you.  That's 

17          a technical term.

18                 VICE PRESIDENT DANGLER:  Thank 

19          you.   

20                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you very 

21          much.  

22                 PRESIDENT BOWEN:  Thank you.  

23                 VICE PRESIDENT DANGLER:  Thank 

24          you, Chairman.  


 1                 DR. FABRICANT:  Thank you.  

 2                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Laura Anglin, 

 3          president, Commission on Independent 

 4          Colleges and Universities, CICU.  

 5                 MS. ANGLIN:  Good afternoon.

 6                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Good afternoon. 

 7                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Good afternoon. 

 8                 MS. ANGLIN:  Or evening.  Almost 

 9          evening.  

10                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Oh, it is 

11          evening.

12                 MS. ANGLIN:  Oh, I guess it is 

13          evening.  

14                 I want to thank all of you for a 

15          very long day, and I appreciate the fact 

16          that there's so many of you still here.  

17                 I am Laura Anglin, the president of 

18          the Commission on Independent Colleges and 

19          Universities, and thank you for allowing me 

20          to testify today on behalf of the 

21          independent sector of higher education here 

22          in New York State.  

23                 With me today is my colleague Terri 

24          Standish-Kuon, who is my vice president for 


 1          public affairs.  

 2                 You have my testimony before you, 

 3          and I do not plan to read it, it is quite 

 4          lengthy.  I'd rather just highlight a few 

 5          key points and then take any comments or 

 6          questions that you might have.

 7                 But first of all, there really are 

 8          too few opportunities to publicly express 

 9          the appreciation -- so first and foremost, 

10          on behalf of our students, I thank you for 

11          everything you do and I thank you for 

12          supporting over 270 colleges and 

13          universities in the State of New York and 

14          over 1.2 million students.  Without the 

15          work you have done, our students would not 

16          be as strong as they are and our higher 

17          education system would not be as strong.

18                 The independent sector is deeply 

19          grateful for the state's investment in the 

20          TAP program, and I know that's been talked 

21          about a lot today as well as other  

22          opportunity programs such as HEOP, STEP, 

23          CSTEP, and LPP.  We are especially grateful 

24          for the 15 percent funding increase for 


 1          each of our opportunity programs that we 

 2          saw in last year's budget, and we're quite 

 3          pleased that that increase was carried over 

 4          into the base this year.

 5                 One of our proposals this year, to 

 6          ensure that student aid can continue to 

 7          serve its purpose, would be to increase the 

 8          TAP maximum to $6,500.  And I talked about 

 9          this last year.  TAP was last increased in 

10          2014 by $165, but prior to that it was more 

11          than a decade ago when that program was 

12          increased.

13                 More than 5 million New Yorkers have 

14          used TAP to meet their college expenses 

15          since its creation more than 45 years ago, 

16          and I'm proud to say that I am one of that 

17          5 million who was a TAP student as I went 

18          through college.  

19                 In addition to increasing the 

20          maximum award, you want to ensure that 

21          applying for TAP continues to be easy for 

22          students and families, and I know that this 

23          was talked about earlier today.  But recent 

24          actions by the federal government will now 


 1          allow New York families applying for TAP to 

 2          use prior-prior tax year returns.  Using 

 3          two-year-prior tax information for the free 

 4          application for federal student aid, or 

 5          FAFSA as we know it, as opposed to one 

 6          prior year as we have right now, will 

 7          increase the form's accuracy and give 

 8          families an earlier and better idea of 

 9          their anticipated financial aid and college 

10          costs.  

11                 We are doing a little research now 

12          as to what the rest of the states are doing 

13          with regards to the prior-prior, but it 

14          appears now that New York may be the only 

15          state that actually requires a statutory 

16          amendment to conform.  And unfortunately we 

17          feel that if we do not conform, families 

18          will be confused and some may not even 

19          realize the difference between the two.  So 

20          we are working -- we have talked with the 

21          Governor's office about that and asked for 

22          that to be a 30-day amendment.  But we 

23          would like to see that definitely be part 

24          of the final enacted budget.


 1                 And finally, with respect to tuition 

 2          assistance -- and I know this has been 

 3          raised a couple of times today -- that I 

 4          would like to start the conversation of 

 5          reimagining graduate tuition assistance, or 

 6          TAP.  We know that it was eliminated in 

 7          2010 and 2011, and we also know that in the 

 8          next six years, jobs requiring a master's 

 9          degree will grow by more than 18 percent, 

10          and by 16 percent for doctoral professional 

11          degrees.  Let us help our young 

12          professionals or adults looking to change 

13          career paths to prepare for occupations 

14          such as accounting, teaching, physical 

15          therapy, and many others.  

16                 Also, as we see the traditional 

17          student as being redefined, the independent 

18          sector is adapting to provide greater 

19          opportunities that meet the personal 

20          realities for all those seeking a higher 

21          education.  Whether it is adult learners  

22          or veterans or part-time students, many of 

23          these students seeking out higher education 

24          require some special help in programs such 


 1          as HEOP, CSTEP, STEP and LPP, which have 

 2          all proven to effectively serve these 

 3          changing student populations.  

 4                 Therefore, we would love to see 

 5          New York actually double funding for these 

 6          opportunities by 2020.  And if we continue 

 7          with the 15 percent increase to the base 

 8          that we saw last year, we believe we would 

 9          be able to do that.  So that is something 

10          that we would love to talk and work with 

11          you on.

12                 We also talked a little bit earlier 

13          about the uniform financial aid award 

14          letter, so I would like to talk just a 

15          minute about that because it's quite 

16          timely, in that I received an email from 

17          one of my schools today and the email was 

18          just to let us know that their software 

19          provider has no plans on providing an 

20          electronic solution to produce New York's 

21          financial aid award letters.  

22                 So my fear is that as we go through 

23          this and its implementation, that many of 

24          the schools -- or most of the schools -- do 


 1          use software providers to prepare these 

 2          financial aid award letters, and I'm not 

 3          sure that we're going to have the resources 

 4          to be able to do that.  

 5                 So that's something that we'd like 

 6          to continue to work with the Governor's 

 7          office, DFS, HESC, as well as you on, to 

 8          figure out if there's perhaps some changes 

 9          that we can make to the statute that was 

10          adopted last year, so that we can implement 

11          it and provide good and important 

12          information to our students or our 

13          families.

14                 With regards to the STEM Incentive 

15          scholarship program, once again we would 

16          ask to be included within that program.  

17          Our state is projected to have nearly a 

18          half-million STEM jobs by 2018, and our 

19          sector does produce about 56 percent of the 

20          bachelor's degrees in the STEM fields and 

21          72 percent in the graduate degrees.  

22                 Therefore, I do urge the state to 

23          expand that program to include our students 

24          in the independent sector.  Let us tap into 


 1          the built-in strength of all our sectors of 

 2          higher education so that talented students 

 3          can take their scholarship dollars to any 

 4          college or university where they might want 

 5          to attend so that we can continue to make 

 6          sure that we're a leader in these fields.

 7                 In addition, another scholarship 

 8          program that I'd just like to mention is 

 9          our Master's in Teaching Education Program. 

10          In addition to STEM fields, we are leaders 

11          in conferring Master of Education degrees.  

12          In New York State, about 67 percent of the 

13          degrees are conferred by independent-sector 

14          schools.  

15                 And I think the state has been 

16          talked about earlier -- according to the 

17          Bureau of Labor Statistics, employment of 

18          kindergarten and elementary school teachers 

19          is expected to grow by 6 percent by 2024.  

20          So we feel like there will be a shortage in 

21          this area to have teachers, so we should 

22          all work together to make sure that the 

23          decline we're seeing in the number of 

24          adults seeking higher education and 


 1          teaching degrees is reversed.  

 2                 And I'd also like to talk just 

 3          briefly about another proposal that was 

 4          adopted last year, and this was the 

 5          graduate-level teacher education 

 6          regulations and requirements that were 

 7          adopted last year.  And part of this 

 8          proposal was to try to attract highly 

 9          competent teachers into our schools and 

10          into the workforce.  

11                 Therefore, last year new admission 

12          requirements were crafted and adopted for 

13          teacher education, specifically a new 

14          requirement held that institutions with 

15          graduate-level teacher education and school 

16          leadership programs must adopt rigorous 

17          standards which included a GPA of 3.0 or 

18          higher in the candidate's undergraduate 

19          program and a minimum score on the GRE or 

20          equivalent test.  

21                 As we were walking through and going 

22          through the implementation and talking with 

23          our members about the implementation, we 

24          were receiving a lot of feedback from 


 1          faculty and admissions experts.  We would 

 2          like to talk to you about making some 

 3          changes to these requirements in order to 

 4          ensure that our future teacher workforce 

 5          represents the diversity that makes up our 

 6          classrooms and that those individuals, 

 7          especially those changing careers who might 

 8          not have had an undergraduate degree for 

 9          many years, that we don't require them to 

10          now go back and take the GRE.  We have a 

11          lot of adult learners that I think -- 

12          veterans and other people -- that would be 

13          wonderful teachers, and we should encourage 

14          those to attend our programs.  

15                 And finally, let me just talk to -- 

16          a lot was talked about in previous 

17          testimony about the impact of higher 

18          education on our economy.  New York is very 

19          fortunate to have a very strong sector of 

20          higher education and a very wonderful 

21          asset.  Our sector alone contributes more 

22          than $74 billion annually to the state's 

23          economy, and we generate over 394,000 jobs 

24          annually, with taxes paid of about 


 1          $1.9 billion.  

 2                 There are some wonderful programs 

 3          that are included within the budget that we 

 4          would like to continue to see included in 

 5          the final enacted budget, including our 

 6          HECap, our matching-grant program.  We'd 

 7          love to see the Faculty Development Program 

 8          and the Technology Transfer Incentive 

 9          Program, which last received funding two 

10          years ago, to see some funding again.  

11                 We're supportive of another round of 

12          REDC funding, and we've been working to try 

13          to enhance participation in the START-UP NY 

14          program.  We also have wonderful colleges 

15          and universities that participate in the 

16          Centers of Excellence, in our CATs, in our 

17          Hot Spots and Incubators, and of course the 

18          Stem Cell Innovation Fund has been a 

19          program for many, many years of funding.

20                 And finally, the last program that 

21          you'll see as one of our priorities is 

22          called the Community Solutions Matching 

23          Grant Program.  Colleges and universities 

24          have long been great community partners, 


 1          and we propose a new matching grant program 

 2          whereby the state can further leverage the 

 3          terrific work that higher education is 

 4          doing to improve the lives of all 

 5          New Yorkers.  So we'll have some more 

 6          details of that program as we put out our 

 7          priorities.

 8                 In closing, I would like to thank 

 9          the Legislature for its support of students 

10          and key programs that allow them to have 

11          access to higher education.  Let us build 

12          on the momentum that we've seen last year 

13          and over the last few years as we continue 

14          to invest in our students.  

15                 I look forward to working with you 

16          this year, and I am happy to take any 

17          questions or hear any comments.  Thank you.

18                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.

19                 Deborah Glick.

20                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Thank you.

21                 Do you have any idea -- you have a 

22          lot of member colleges and universities.

23                 MS. ANGLIN:  I do.

24                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Do they have a 


 1          rough idea of how many teaching students 

 2          they produce each year? 

 3                 MS. ANGLIN:  We have 74 -- about 

 4          70 -- a little over 70 schools, and I can 

 5          get you the exact number of how many 

 6          degrees are conferred.  

 7                 Terri, do you know that number?

 8                 MS. STANDISH-KUON:  It's about -- 

 9          well, 67 percent of the master's degrees, 

10          about 43 percent overall.  But 

11          Assemblymember, we will get you the 

12          details.

13                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Yeah, yeah, 

14          that's -- I didn't expect you to have 

15          the -- I would have been amazed.

16                 But in that same vein, the issue 

17          that you raise about the threshold that was 

18          inserted in last year's negotiations that 

19          created a little bit of a, in my view, a 

20          very arbitrary and perhaps inappropriate 

21          line.  

22                 I've heard from other people that 

23          there are folks whose ability to 

24          communicate -- you have some people who 


 1          could have a 3.5, very intellectual, very 

 2          cerebral, and have no ability to actually 

 3          connect and communicate.  So this is a 

 4          broader discussion that we're having around 

 5          how do you determine who are the best 

 6          teachers, who are the best candidates, who 

 7          do you suggest might want to shift gears.  

 8                 I think that's an ongoing 

 9          discussion, and I'm wondering whether any 

10          of your schools are participating in 

11          thinking about figuring it out sooner than 

12          at the end of the track, whether there are 

13          things they're instituting to determine the 

14          suitability of somebody to be a teacher.

15                 MS. ANGLIN:  I think there's many 

16          different -- as you said, there's many 

17          different ways that you could look at that, 

18          and that a test score is one way.  But I 

19          think looking at their performance as an 

20          undergraduate, working with them as they go 

21          through -- these are things that even if -- 

22          perhaps if someone enters a program and is 

23          not strong in what you're suggesting, 

24          mentoring and other things can be helpful.  


 1                 And I think that's one of the 

 2          concerns about these standards that are 

 3          set, because a lot of students who could 

 4          wind up being a wonderful teacher and could 

 5          make a difference in someone's world may 

 6          actually be shut out of these programs 

 7          because they don't meet these requirements.  

 8                 And I know that there is a 

 9          15 percent exception in last year's 

10          legislation, so perhaps if we can start 

11          even by looking at increasing that, or 

12          phasing that in, that may be one option.  

13                 And I know that the concern is okay, 

14          it's the GRE or an equivalent test, we 

15          don't really know what that means.  So a 

16          lot of folks don't like the GRE because 

17          they think that it is too narrow, and some 

18          of the students that are taking it and some 

19          of the results have been that it's probably 

20          not the best indicator.  So I think there's 

21          concern about, well, then what is the right 

22          indicator?  But we'd love to continue that 

23          conversation.

24                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  There's been 


 1          some discussion about alternative pathways 

 2          for reaching a master's, or ways in which 

 3          you can determine if somebody should be 

 4          eligible for teaching.  (Coughing.)  Excuse 

 5          me, the cold resurges.

 6                 MS. ANGLIN:  Yeah, I understand 

 7          completely.

 8                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  But there are 

 9          people who are not certified as teachers in 

10          the State of New York who teach at a 

11          college level and yet are barred from 

12          teaching high school English, but could be 

13          teaching.

14                 MS. ANGLIN:  Sure.

15                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  And has there 

16          been any discussion about -- because most 

17          of it is about not having the existing 

18          programs be the pathway, but some other 

19          entity somewhere just being able to, you 

20          know, certify.  And I'm wondering what your 

21          thoughts are about that.

22                 MS. ANGLIN:  You know, I'd like to 

23          come back to you on that.  We do have 

24          schools that have some creative alternative 


 1          programs, and I would love to reach out to 

 2          them and get their thoughts on really the 

 3          strength of what they see works in these 

 4          programs, but really also about -- maybe 

 5          there's other changes that we can make to 

 6          address what you're talking about.  So I'd 

 7          like to go back to them and come back and 

 8          talk to you about some options.

 9                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  You've made a 

10          recommendation for increasing TAP to $6500.  

11          Do you know what that would cost in the 

12          budget?

13                 MS. ANGLIN:  You know, we asked HESC 

14          for an estimate a couple of years ago, and 

15          back then it was $180 million.  So it may 

16          be a little more than that.  We have not 

17          requested -- we obviously don't have the 

18          capability of doing the estimate, so we can 

19          request that from HESC.  

20                 Where that is a lot of money, we 

21          understand.  But remember last time when 

22          the maximum was increased, it was done over 

23          a multiyear period, it wasn't done in one 

24          year.  So we would love to continue to see 


 1          progress and something that we can work 

 2          over a multiyear period.

 3                 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GLICK:  Thank you.

 4                 MS. ANGLIN:  Thank you.  

 5                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.  

 6                 Senator?  

 7                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you very 

 8          much, and thank you for your comments and 

 9          thank you for the fine work that you do.

10                 I did want to follow up regarding 

11          the issue that we had spoken about 

12          regarding the implementation of the 

13          standardized financial aid award letter.  

14          You mentioned that there may be some fixes 

15          that you would suggest, and I would look 

16          for your input regarding that issue to see 

17          if there's something that we can do 

18          legislatively to help address the 

19          situation.  That would be most helpful.

20                 MS. ANGLIN:  Sure.  And I'd love to 

21          follow up more formally, but one thing -- 

22          and we have been talking with DFS and HESC 

23          and the Governor's office on this.  One 

24          thing perhaps we might look to do is just 


 1          to require schools to use the federal 

 2          shopping sheet, which is available on line, 

 3          I think.  One hundred thirty schools in 

 4          New York currently use it.  

 5                 We know that these providers, these 

 6          software providers, have that and are 

 7          willing to work with us to provide that.  

 8          And that -- and we can get you an example 

 9          of that shopping sheet, but literally I 

10          think that would provide a lot of 

11          information to students and families and it 

12          would perhaps be less confusing too.  

13                 So right now, they make out the 

14          federal shopping sheet, they make out a 

15          standardized sheet that a college or 

16          university does -- because they want to 

17          provide more information than the federal 

18          shopping sheet -- and now they may also now 

19          get a third sheet, which is the state 

20          shopping sheet, I'll call it, which is 

21          basically the first page is the federal 

22          shopping sheet and then some additional 

23          information.  

24                 So families now are going to get a 


 1          lot of information, so the question being, 

 2          really, is there a way to consolidate this 

 3          so that families can get the information 

 4          but not be overwhelmed with information.

 5                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  And they are 

 6          right now.  I can vouch for that --

 7                 MS. ANGLIN:  They are.  Absolutely.

 8                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  -- personally 

 9          because of the calls that we receive in my 

10          district office.  It's really amazing, the 

11          numbers, because people are confused, they 

12          call us for help.  And we're always happy 

13          to help, but it would be nice if we could 

14          simplify and streamline the information to 

15          help be more user-friendly and meet their 

16          needs.

17                 So thank you for that.  I look 

18          forward to working with you.

19                 MS. ANGLIN:  Thank you.  Absolutely.  

20          Appreciate it.

21                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Okay.  Senator 

22          Krueger -- no, wait, we have the Assembly.  

23          More Assemblymembers, I'm sure.  Anyone 

24          else?  No?  


 1                 Okay.  So Senator Stavisky also had 

 2          a question.

 3                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  We've discussed 

 4          this before.  How do you see the HECap 

 5          program as progressing?

 6                 MS. ANGLIN:  As the HECap program --

 7                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  How is it 

 8          progressing?

 9                 MS. ANGLIN:  Well, we just had a 

10          HECap board meeting -- and Assemblymember 

11          Glick, you can testify to that -- last 

12          week.  So we're pleased, and I think an 

13          announcement went out today -- we're 

14          pleased that the first round of awards were 

15          released.  

16                 We have asked the Dormitory 

17          Authority -- and I was actually going to 

18          talk to the board members too, the HECap 

19          board -- that perhaps if they could provide 

20          some feedback to the schools as to, as they 

21          looked at the applications, what was the 

22          strengths, what helped, what perhaps made 

23          one application -- I don't want to say 

24          better than the other, but applications had 


 1          to receive a stronger -- maybe that's a 

 2          better word -- they had to receive a score 

 3          of 70 out of 100 to receive funding.  And I 

 4          think 29 of the proposals achieved that, 

 5          and there were over 30 that did not.  

 6                 So I think the schools would love to 

 7          get some feedback.  But we're pleased and 

 8          we'd like to work now to perhaps do a 

 9          webinar or do something with the schools 

10          and then have our next round of funding.  

11          So once I get that feedback, I might be 

12          able to provide you with some better 

13          insights.  

14                 But we're extremely pleased at the 

15          thoughtfulness that went into the process, 

16          and that announcement was made last week.

17                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  And none of the 

18          institutions are going to have a problem 

19          with the matching grant?  You know, the 

20          match requirement?

21                 MS. ANGLIN:  You know, Senator, 

22          the --

23                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  We've discussed 

24          this before.


 1                 MS. ANGLIN:  We did.  And the one 

 2          thing that -- that's why I need some 

 3          feedback.  

 4                 The one thing that we tried to make 

 5          sure as we went through this new 

 6          competitive process -- because, if you 

 7          remember, the last time it was kind of as 

 8          of right, based on a formula -- is that we 

 9          wanted to make sure that the funding was 

10          available to any size institution.  

11                 So we kind of did tranches or 

12          buckets so that you could apply 

13          competitively for, let's say, a $150,000 

14          grant within that, or you could apply for a 

15          $2.5 million grant.  So the schools could 

16          look at the project that best fit what they 

17          could financially afford to match -- 

18          because it is, as you said, a three-to-one 

19          match -- but really so that they weren't 

20          competing, a small nursing school was not 

21          competing with a large research university, 

22          which probably would have been very 

23          difficult.  

24                 So you'll see, if you look at the 


 1          awards, you'll see awards from roughly 

 2          $140,000 up to $2.5.  So it was nice to see 

 3          a mix of schools in different sizes and 

 4          geographical locations to be able to 

 5          benefit from the program.

 6                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  That's why I 

 7          asked.  That was the -- as you know, we've 

 8          discussed --

 9                 MS. ANGLIN:  We have.

10                 SENATOR STAVISKY:  -- perhaps basing 

11          the match requirement upon their endowment 

12          or some other method.

13                 But thank you.

14                 MS. ANGLIN:  Thank you.  

15                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.

16                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you.

17                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you very 

18          much.

19                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  No, one more, 

20          then.

21                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:

22                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Senator Krueger 

23          had a question.  

24                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Thank you.


 1                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Rushing, rushing.

 2                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  I know.  It'll be 

 3          a short question.

 4                 So it's been a few years, I think, 

 5          since I asked this question.  Of the TAP 

 6          students that go to your members' colleges, 

 7          what are they leaving college with as far 

 8          as student debt?

 9                 MS. ANGLIN:  You have a -- we 

10          brought the average debt numbers, so --

11                 MS. STANDISH-KUON:  But I do not 

12          have it, Senator, by TAP recipients.

13                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Do you have it by 

14          all --

15                 MS. STANDISH-KUON:  So I have 

16          average --

17                 MS. ANGLIN:  Average -- statewide 

18          average.

19                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Correct.  What's 

20          the statewide average?

21                 MS. STANDISH-KUON:  So New York 

22          State's independent-sector average, 

23          $29,146.

24                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Okay, thanks.  So 


 1          just -- that's not significantly higher 

 2          than the public colleges.

 3                 MS. STANDISH-KUON:  It is not 

 4          significantly different.

 5                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Okay.  So if at 

 6          some other time, if you could just -- if 

 7          you can get me the number for TAP students.

 8                 MS. ANGLIN:  Let's see if we have 

 9          access to that information.

10                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  No problem.

11                 MS. ANGLIN:  And we'd love to 

12          provide that to you.

13                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

14          much.

15                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.

16                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Thank you, 

17          everybody.

18                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  NYPIRG.  Tiffany 

19          Brown, higher education coordinator.  

20                 And we'll do the move-down.  

21          Michael Molina, president, next.  If you 

22          come down and sit lower, you can get 

23          there quicker.  Okay?  Dr. Jason Brown 

24          after that, and Virginia Donohue.


 1                 MS. BROWN:  Good evening.  My 

 2          name is Tiffany Brown, and I am the 

 3          higher education coordinator for the 

 4          New York Public Interest Research Group, 

 5          NYPIRG.

 6                 Due to scheduling conflicts, I am 

 7          testifying on behalf of our board chair and 

 8          submitting his written testimony.

 9                 As you know, NYPIRG is a statewide, 

10          not-for-profit, nonpartisan research and 

11          advocacy organization.  Its board of 

12          directors are college and university 

13          students.  NYPIRG works on a wide range of 

14          issues, including affordability of higher 

15          education.  I have submitted a copy of our 

16          testimony, but given the lateness of the 

17          hour I would like to summarize our views on 

18          the Executive Budget.

19                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you, thank 

20          you, thank you.

21                 MS. BROWN:  No problem.

22                 Five years ago, Governor Cuomo and 

23          the State Legislature approved an annual 

24          tuition hike for public colleges and 


 1          universities.  At that time, the argument 

 2          had two central rationales to support the 

 3          plan.  First, it was argued that college 

 4          students and their families wanted 

 5          predictability in tuition costs so that 

 6          annual increases could ensure them that 

 7          hikes would never exceed a predictable 

 8          annual amount.  

 9                 In our opinion, that argument was 

10          weak.  After all, what could be more 

11          predictable than having no increases at 

12          all?  

13                 The second and more compelling 

14          argument was that the state was facing 

15          massive deficits and that it had no money 

16          to bolster public colleges.  The students 

17          would just have to pay more.  

18                 Fast-forward five years, the state 

19          has jacked up the cost of attending public 

20          colleges by a whopping 30 percent.  At the 

21          same time, the state has frozen its support 

22          for State and City University systems.  In 

23          short, the students are paying a lot more 

24          and the state is not.  


 1                 Yet the Governor has once again 

 2          proposed hiking tuition.  He offers no new 

 3          state support and wants students to pay a 

 4          lot more.  The argument is the same, the 

 5          far less compelling argument that students 

 6          want predictability of annual tuition 

 7          hikes, which is simply not true.  In fact, 

 8          it is the opposite that is true.  Students 

 9          want predictability all right, but they 

10          want the predictability of no tuition.  

11          They want the predictability of a state 

12          flush with cash adding revenues to enhance 

13          higher education.  

14                 The second argument used five years 

15          ago is that the state is facing deficits.  

16          It's simply not true any more.  In fact, 

17          according to the State Comptroller, the 

18          state has a $1 billion surplus this year.  

19          While $650 million of that surplus is 

20          coming from state settlements, $350 million 

21          is coming from enhanced tax revenues.  

22                 Given that the state is flush with 

23          money, why should public higher education 

24          cost more?  Recognizing this last year, the 


 1          Legislature, with overwhelming bipartisan 

 2          support, approved the bill making the state 

 3          increase its support for higher education.  

 4          Not only was there near unanimous support 

 5          in the Legislature, but there was support 

 6          from public universities, the faculties, 

 7          and the students.  Yet the Governor vetoed 

 8          that legislation.  

 9                 We urge you to replace the 

10          Governor's proposed tuition hikes with an 

11          enhanced maintenance of effort plan.  

12                 What's more, the Executive Budget 

13          seems to cut state funding to CUNY with the 

14          expectation that the city will fill the 

15          gap.  The state already misses the 

16          obligations to fund higher education, and 

17          they are headed in the wrong direction.  

18                 The Governor took a positive step 

19          towards fixing an outdated financial aid 

20          program by including $27 million for the 

21          DREAM Act.  We urge its support.  However, 

22          this year's Executive Budget plan does not 

23          include broad-based increases in state 

24          financial aid programs, leaving either the 


 1          student or the college short.  

 2                 TAP should cover more of the costs 

 3          of tuition for those who qualify and should 

 4          be flexible enough to meet the needs of all 

 5          types of New Yorkers, not just the 

 6          traditional straight-from-high-school-to- 

 7          college full-time student that it was 

 8          initially designed to serve.  

 9          Unfortunately, the Executive Budget does 

10          not propose these changes to TAP.  

11                 NYPIRG urges you to freeze tuition 

12          rates and institute last year's maintenance 

13          of effort legislation in the place of 

14          tuition hikes.  In addition, we urge you to 

15          include the DREAM Act and increase the TAP 

16          awards so that the state covers the cost of 

17          public tuition for eligible students 

18          instead of SUNY and CUNY.  

19                 Lastly, we urge you to support SUNY 

20          and CUNY's budget requests to increase 

21          state-based aid to community colleges by 

22          $250 per FTE and strengthen support to 

23          opportunity programs that work.  

24                 Thank you.


 1                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Questions?  

 2                 Thank you very much.  

 3                 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS:  Thank you.  

 4                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 5                 MS. BROWN:  Thank you.  

 6                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you for 

 7          your patience.  

 8                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Michael Molina, 

 9          president, Association of Program 

10          Administrators of CSTEP and STEP, or APACS.  

11                 After him will be Jason Brown, then 

12          Virginia Donohue.  Then Wanda Williams.

13                 Good evening.

14                 MR. MOLINA:  Good evening, everyone.  

15          And I shall be brief -- 

16                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Hurray.

17                 MR. MOLINA:  -- and try to get this 

18          done before my five minutes are out.

19                 First, I want to thank you all for 

20          still being here at 6:40 p.m.  I will make 

21          my comments brief in the interests of time.  

22                 First, I just want to say thank you 

23          very much to all of you for the 15 percent 

24          increase that you gave our programs last 


 1          year.  It was the first increase we had had 

 2          in over 11 years, and it was extremely 

 3          helpful in helping our programs to grow and 

 4          develop.  

 5                 Today I ask for your continued 

 6          support in the form of two specific 

 7          requests.  One is for a 30 percent increase 

 8          in funding so that we can continue to grow 

 9          and develop the current STEP and CSTEP 

10          programs.  

11                 So funding right now for STEP and 

12          CSTEP is $23 million, rounded, and we're 

13          asking for the programs to be funded at a 

14          level of at least $29 million.  And mind 

15          you, I'm asking for an increase in funding 

16          for the current programs, as opposed to the 

17          15 programs or so that were mentioned 

18          earlier that were not funded.  

19                 But that is our second request.  We 

20          would like to see the STEP and CSTEP 

21          programs that were not funded in the last 

22          funding cycle -- because of what our 

23          association believes to be a flawed 

24          proposal process -- to be funded.  


 1                 So we had about 14 programs that 

 2          were highly effective, highly efficient 

 3          programs that were denied funding -- mind 

 4          you, they had successful proposal 

 5          submittals, but were denied funding because 

 6          of what we considered to be a flawed 

 7          proposal process.  So I know that earlier 

 8          today that was the request that was made, 

 9          for funding to restore those programs, but 

10          that will be done, you know, at the cost of 

11          level-funding the current programs, which 

12          we think is counterproductive.  We think 

13          that for programs to continue to grow and 

14          develop, you don't level-fund them, you 

15          give them a modest increase.  And that's 

16          what we're asking for.

17                 So last but not least, mention was 

18          given just by the previous speaker about 

19          the plausibility of doubling the 

20          Opportunity Programs, all of the 

21          Opportunity Programs in the State of 

22          New York, and I just want to say that we 

23          support that request.  We think it's a good 

24          idea.  


 1                 The size of the Opportunity Programs 

 2          has been very consistent.  It's been about 

 3          the same level across the board for a long, 

 4          long time, and it is time to increase the 

 5          enrollments of all of these programs so 

 6          that we can provide opportunities to the 

 7          young men and women of New York State who 

 8          want to get ahead, who want to make a 

 9          career and a life for themselves in the 

10          State of New York.

11                 And then finally, I would like to 

12          ask again, as I do every year, that we 

13          receive your support in the form of some 

14          kind of a legislative mandate for our 

15          programs to receive their funding in a 

16          timely manner.  Every year for the last 

17          several years this group has managed to get 

18          its budget done by April.  As of this 

19          December, about four of my colleagues had 

20          received their actual funding from the 

21          State of New York.  And there were close to 

22          a hundred programs.

23                 So there are many programs that 

24          still have not received direct funding from 


 1          the state, and we ask for your support and 

 2          assistance in helping this to occur in a 

 3          much more timely manner.

 4                 Thank you very much.  That's my 

 5          testimony, and I'll take any questions if I 

 6          can.

 7                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  And you'll stand 

 8          by it.

 9                 MR. MOLINA:  I'll stand by it, sir.  

10          Yes, sir.

11                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Questions?

12                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

13                 MR. MOLINA:  Thank you very much.  

14                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you very 

15          much.  

16                 Jason Brown, New York State 

17          Chiropractors Association.

18                 My neck is hurting me.

19                 Next will be Virginia Donohue, and 

20          Thomas Mastro after that.

21                 DR. BROWN:  Chair --

22                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Good evening.

23                 DR. BROWN:  Chairpersons and 

24          committee members, I thank you for the 


 1          opportunity to testify today.  I appreciate 

 2          your presence in this marathon hearing --

 3                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Oh, excuse me.

 4                 DR. BROWN:  Sorry, sir?

 5                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  This is paper 

 6          here.

 7                 DR. BROWN:  Yes.

 8                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  You're doing the 

 9          first three pages, right? 

10                 Dr. BROWN:  I promise, despite the 

11          lengthy written testimony, I'll try to keep 

12          the verbal portion very brief.

13                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.

14                 DR. BROWN:  My name is Dr. Jason 

15          Brown.  I'm the vice president of the 

16          New York State Chiropractic Association.  

17          I'm here today to ask for your inclusion in 

18          the one-house budget proposal that was 

19          included in the Senate one-house budget 

20          last year, S215A from Senator Jack Martins 

21          and A4391 by Assemblyman Daniel O'Donnell.

22                 In short, what this legislation 

23          allows is a partnership to be formed 

24          between a chiropractor and a medical 


 1          doctor.  Again, you have extensive written 

 2          testimony in front of you, so I'll do my 

 3          best to keep our comments brief and to the 

 4          main points.  

 5                 The historic challenge here stems 

 6          from the corporate practice of medicine 

 7          doctoring.  That's what prohibited 

 8          partnerships in the past from doctors of 

 9          chiropractic and medical doctors.  As we 

10          look at the current healthcare environment, 

11          it doesn't seem to have the same place 

12          today that it did at one point.  What we 

13          see is vertical integration within hospital 

14          systems, we see businesspeople, 

15          administrators, et cetera, creating 

16          policies and enacting procedures that 

17          dictate the way medical care is driven.  

18                 As we look at this trend, it's 

19          difficult to see how a business partnership 

20          between two doctor-level healthcare 

21          partners does anything different than that.  

22                 The other broad trend in healthcare 

23          is for integration and collaboration.  As 

24          healthcare has become more and more 


 1          specialized with more and more 

 2          specialities, the need to communicate, 

 3          coordinate, and collaborate in care has 

 4          become essential.  Not only does this 

 5          integration allow better quality care, it 

 6          allows streamlining, reduction in 

 7          redundancy, and eventually saves costs.

 8                 While New York was on the leading 

 9          edge of implementing the Affordable Care 

10          Act and creating the healthcare exchange 

11          and modernizing healthcare in New York, 

12          what we're asking you to do with this 

13          legislation is to make sure the rest of our 

14          policies match, to allow us to participate 

15          in and keep pace with these other efforts.  

16                 The contemporary healthcare models 

17          of patient-centered medical homes and 

18          accountable care organizations -- and what 

19          these are are simply pay-for-performance 

20          models.  What we're finally trying to do in 

21          healthcare is reward quality of care rather 

22          than quantity.  It's a community-based 

23          model that pays providers and pays 

24          businesses for getting people well and 


 1          keeping them well, rather than just paying 

 2          them for quantity of service delivered.

 3                 As chiropractors have forever been 

 4          providing cost-effective quality care, 

 5          we're very well-positioned to be part of 

 6          this modern healthcare system, with the 

 7          exception that some of our state laws 

 8          currently prevent us from being equitable 

 9          partners in these arrangements.  We're 

10          looking for the ability to do so.

11                 Obviously when we try and change 

12          historic policy like the Corporate Practice 

13          of Medicine Act, there are some concerns 

14          raised.  I want to assure you that the 

15          legislation and the written testimony 

16          includes plenty of safeguards -- the first 

17          being that these arrangements and 

18          partnerships are 100 percent voluntary, the 

19          second being that there is zero impact on 

20          scope of practice.  The ethical standards, 

21          the patient safety standards, the standards 

22          of practice that are currently upheld by 

23          our respective state boards will obviously 

24          carry forward.


 1                 These arrangements are already being 

 2          done in other states:  To name a few, 

 3          Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Florida, 

 4          California, Missouri, Tennessee, Kentucky, 

 5          Minnesota, Arizona, North Carolina, 

 6          Virginia, and Alabama.  This model works, 

 7          it's working in other places, we just need 

 8          to find a way to bring it here so our 

 9          healthcare system can become modern as 

10          well.

11                 Within New York, the Medicare Design 

12          Team has a regulatory impact subcommittee 

13          who we believe will be coming out with a 

14          recommendation to allow these types of 

15          partnerships so they can serve their 

16          broader mission.  So for these reasons and 

17          the extensive reasons outlined in our 

18          written testimony, on behalf of the 

19          New York State Chiropractic Association and 

20          the chiropractic profession, and the 

21          patients of New York, I strongly urge you 

22          to consider inclusion of S215A and A4391 in 

23          your one-house budgets.

24                 Thank you.  


 1                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you very 

 2          much.  

 3                 Any questions?  Yes, Mr. Lupinacci.

 4                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  Good 

 5          evening.  

 6                 I just had one question.  What is 

 7          the largest argument against the formation?  

 8          How do you guys overcome it when you speak 

 9          with groups?  Because obviously this bill's 

10          been around at least 15, 20 years, correct, 

11          for this formation?  

12                 DR. BROWN:  Sure.

13                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  If you could 

14          just explain the largest argument against 

15          it and, you know, what you usually do to 

16          defend it, to make sure that there would be 

17          a smooth transition if this was 

18          implemented.

19                 DR. BROWN:  Yeah, thank you.  

20                 The largest argument to date 

21          actually has been one of scope of practice, 

22          which we don't feel has a whole lot of 

23          merit.  As you review the legislation, 

24          you'll see that in response to this concern 


 1          we went back and added language to the 

 2          legislation several years ago to ensure 

 3          that a doctor of chiropractic operates 

 4          within their scope of practice and a 

 5          medical doctor operates within their scope 

 6          of practice, and nothing allows them to 

 7          leave that.  

 8                 Short of that, there really haven't 

 9          been any substantive arguments against it.  

10          So I hope we can find a way to move this 

11          forward.  

12                 ASSEMBLYMAN LUPINACCI:  Thank you.  

13                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.  

14                 DR. BROWN:  Thank you.  

15                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Virginia Donohue, 

16          executive director, One Point for College.  

17          On Point for College.

18                 (Laughter.)

19                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  "One" -- I put an 

20          E in there.

21                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  You only get one 

22          point.

23                 (Laughter.)

24                 MS. DONOHUE:  Thank you.  


 1                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  You're right.

 2                 MS. DONOHUE:  Thank you very much 

 3          for the opportunity to speak here.  And I 

 4          will summarize what it is we've come to ask 

 5          of you.  

 6                 I'm Ginny Donohue.  I'm the founder 

 7          of On Point for College.  I started out as 

 8          a volunteer helping young people from a 

 9          homeless shelter to get into college for 

10          eight years.  Now, in 1999 it stole my 

11          heart and I left my corporate job and 

12          started On Point for College.

13                 It's been 16 years.  We've now 

14          placed 5,800 people in over 200 colleges 

15          and universities.  Our biggest bump in size 

16          came in 2012, when HESC gave us funding.  

17          It was College Access Challenge Grants, 

18          federal funding, that moved through HESC.  

19          And because we were a single-source 

20          provider and we became a HESC partner, we 

21          were able to double in size in Syracuse, 

22          open an operation in Utica, and partner in 

23          New York City with Goddard Riverside 

24          Community Center in Manhattan and 


 1          New Settlement Apartments in the Bronx, to 

 2          get them both funding and guidance on how 

 3          to do a retention program.

 4                 I just want to explain how we're 

 5          different.  There's a lot of college access 

 6          programs in the state.  We work with people 

 7          17 to 29.  We receive a lot of referrals 

 8          from the high schools, but we don't work in 

 9          the high schools, we only work in  

10          community centers.  We work in 27 community 

11          centers, Boys and Girls Clubs, settlement 

12          houses, homeless shelters, refugee centers, 

13          libraries, municipal housing.  

14                 Sixty percent of the students that 

15          we meet are not in high school.  Most of 

16          them are high school graduates or they got 

17          an education somewhere else, so they don't 

18          have a guidance counselor available to them 

19          anywhere else.  Thirty percent of them have 

20          no parent in their life and so they're 

21          very, very vulnerable.  

22                 But despite all of these obstacles 

23          that they're facing, 70 percent of them -- 

24          and most of them are community college 


 1          students -- return for their sophomore 

 2          year, which is clearly 10 percent above the 

 3          average community college student, despite 

 4          all the obstacles that they're facing.

 5                 I just want to tell you a couple 

 6          things we do that most programs don't.  We 

 7          have an orientation that teaches them the 

 8          ropes before they go to college, because 

 9          most of them are the first one in their 

10          family to go.  We give them some college 

11          supplies.  We provide them transportation 

12          in New York State all the way through 

13          college, either with a bus ticket or 

14          180 mentors, including ex-Mayor Tom Young, 

15          who drove 190,000 miles last year to take 

16          inner city kids to and from college.

17                 At the beginning of every semester 

18          we go to 78 different colleges and we sit 

19          across from them in the cafeteria, we make 

20          sure they've gotten their books and their 

21          food, and we introduce them to the Campus 

22          Angel, a volunteer that helps them on 

23          campus.  We've done root canals, winter 

24          coats, eyeglasses, and we had so many 


 1          students that were homeless that I went to 

 2          my alma mater of Le Moyne College that 

 3          allows them for the last 15 years -- not 

 4          just kids from Le Moyne, and even kids from 

 5          New York City -- to live there for free for 

 6          the summer if they have nowhere else to 

 7          live.  

 8                 We do job placement, we help people 

 9          with certificate programs, and Police Chief 

10          Frank Fowler said that there is no 

11          organization in the City of Syracuse that 

12          has decreased the violence like On Point 

13          for College.  

14                 I want you to know that we've been 

15          good stewards of the money that was given 

16          to us through HESC.  We brought more than a 

17          million dollars from national foundations.  

18          We were instrumental in teaming up with 

19          three community colleges and SUNY Oswego to 

20          bring a $2.8 million First in the World 

21          Grant.  We're the only community-based 

22          organization in the country that got 

23          funding for that.  

24                 Since we got the funding from HESC, 


 1          we placed over 3,000 students in -- we 

 2          enrolled them in college, which brought 

 3          $13 million of tuition to SUNY and CUNY -- 

 4          remember, most of these students weren't in 

 5          high school, so they couldn't have gotten 

 6          there any other way -- and $17 million 

 7          worth of Pell.  

 8                 Over their lifetime, if they get an 

 9          associate's degree, it will bring in 

10          $1.2 billion of taxable income, or with a 

11          bachelor's, $1.6 billion.  

12                 The funding for this grant ends in 

13          August of '16, and we are asking for your 

14          support to help us to replace this 

15          $1.2 million, part of which is for Utica -- 

16          for Syracuse, Utica, and for New York 

17          City -- so that we can continue on to do 

18          this fine work.  

19                 We also know that we do know how to 

20          replicate -- we're reaching people that no 

21          one else is reaching, and we are open, 

22          given additional funding, to be able to 

23          share this with other locations.

24                 Thank you.


 1                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.  

 2                 Questions?  Yes.

 3                 ASSEMBLYMAN STIRPE:  Hi, Ginny.  

 4                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Mr. Stirpe.

 5                 ASSEMBLYMAN STIRPE:  I know that in 

 6          addition to the places that you work right 

 7          now, you've been called by people all over 

 8          the country to come and teach them what it 

 9          is you do, taking dislocated students and 

10          addressing that population.

11                 Can you talk a little bit about 

12          where you've gone and who you've worked 

13          with?

14                 MS. DONOHUE:  Yes, thank you.  

15                 The Department of Ed has an affinity 

16          group run by Greg Darnieder, and I was 

17          asked to do the presentation with one other 

18          person for disconnected youth for the 

19          country, to talk about how to help 

20          refugees, court-involved youth, homeless 

21          youth to be able to not only get into 

22          college, but how you can help them to make 

23          it through college.  

24                 Also helping to develop materials 


 1          for 14 states through the Southern Regional 

 2          Education Board -- right now I'm helping to 

 3          develop materials for guidance counselors 

 4          in 14 states on how to work with 

 5          disconnected or opportunity youth.  And 

 6          there was an article in the Chronicle of 

 7          Higher Ed this year, and it talked about -- 

 8          the only CBO it talked about in the article 

 9          was On Point for College, as setting the 

10          standard for trying to help homeless 

11          students be able to make it through 

12          college.  

13                 ASSEMBLYMAN STIRPE:  Wow.  Amazing.  

14                 One of the other things I know you 

15          do is that once someone has gotten in 

16          college, you're getting them through and 

17          then there's a next step, is finding a job.  

18          Can you talk a little bit about what you do 

19          in that regard?

20                 MS. DONOHUE:  I'm going to ask Sam 

21          Rowser, the deputy executive director, to 

22          answer that.  

23                 MR. ROWSER:  Good evening.  The 

24          program that you speak about, the On Point 


 1          for Jobs program that we have at On Point, 

 2          was developed in the last about seven 

 3          years.  And what we've done is we look at 

 4          our students that have graduated from 

 5          college and looked at how can we help them 

 6          find employment.  

 7                 Being first-generation college 

 8          students, they haven't in the past had 

 9          access or anyone in the family that was 

10          connected and knew how to do resume 

11          writing, knew how to do interview skills.  

12          So we work with them to help them develop 

13          their resume writing, their interview 

14          skills.  

15                 We have over 250 companies --  I 

16          think you guys have a list in your 

17          packet -- of companies that we've been 

18          working with, and we were able to place 

19          over 300 students in summer jobs and 

20          internships in Syracuse alone.

21                 So using our development board for 

22          On Point for Jobs, using the companies in 

23          the community, we've been able to 

24          successfully help these students transition 


 1          not just into college, not just through 

 2          college, but to employment and finding 

 3          permanent employment, internships, and 

 4          summer jobs.

 5                 ASSEMBLYMAN STIRPE:  As you expanded 

 6          from upstate to New York City, did you find 

 7          any differences?  Are there additional 

 8          challenges, or is it really the same?

 9                 MS. DONOHUE:  Well, Sam took 

10          New York City and I was in Utica most of 

11          the time, so I'll let him take that answer.

12                 MR. ROWSER:  You know, the 

13          transportation is different in New York 

14          City, and that was one of the things 

15          that -- you know, one of the services that 

16          we provide for students in Syracuse is we 

17          have about 160 volunteers that help us 

18          transport students to and from college.  

19          Because we found that some of our students 

20          would come home for Thanksgiving and they 

21          had no ride to get back to school, so we 

22          had volunteers that would drive them.  

23                 So when we went to New York City, we 

24          thought we'd have somebody drive, but no 


 1          one had a license.  

 2                 (Laughter.)

 3                 MR. ROWSER:  So we decided that we'd 

 4          better get train tickets and bus tickets, 

 5          and we used that.  

 6                 So that was one of the big 

 7          differences that we found in helping the 

 8          students.  But the population and the need 

 9          was the same.  

10                 And we found, you know, good friends 

11          in Goddard Riverside and in New Settlement 

12          Apartments that had the same heart, that 

13          had the same drive and were willing to help 

14          the students in the same way.  And it's 

15          been a tremendous working relationship, 

16          where part of what we do is we visit our 

17          students while they're on campus to develop 

18          that relationship.  And for our partners in 

19          New York City, they visit all of our 

20          students from upstate, and for when their 

21          students come upstate, we visit all of 

22          their students upstate.  And so that way, 

23          you know, it saves on us having to drive to 

24          New York City and them having to drive up.  


 1                 If I have a student in New York City 

 2          that needs a book, I can call our friends 

 3          in New York City and they'll take care of 

 4          it.  If they have a student at Ithaca 

 5          College, they can call us and we'll help 

 6          them out.  The partnership is working 

 7          really, really well.

 8                 MS. DONOHUE:  And Utica's different, 

 9          in that 61 percent are refugees in the City 

10          of Utica, and 90 percent are commuters.  

11          Whereas in Syracuse, only 40 percent -- 

12          about 50 -- it's about 50/50 between 

13          commuters and resident students.  But the 

14          refugees particularly do not want to leave, 

15          so we have -- you know, it's always a 

16          little bit tougher, I think.

17                 We find the students have a 

18          20 percent increased chance of staying in 

19          college if we can get them out of town, 

20          usually.  Because of the transportation 

21          issues, because the families are so 

22          vulnerable, that if they're not in town, 

23          they're not constantly being asked to stay 

24          away from school to take care of family 


 1          issues for families that are very 

 2          vulnerable.  

 3                 ASSEMBLYMAN STIRPE:  Well, I just 

 4          want to congratulate you on the success you 

 5          have had at this point.  And I really 

 6          support all the Opportunity Programs, but I 

 7          have never found one that was quite as 

 8          comprehensive, as complete as what you do.  

 9                 And it just proves that students can 

10          succeed, no matter what their background or 

11          anything else is, as long as they have the 

12          right supports behind them.  

13                 Thank you.

14                 MS. DONOHUE:  Thank you so much.  

15                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Just one quick 

16          question.

17                 Thank you, very detailed analysis in 

18          here.  Separating out the cost of tuition 

19          for going to school, what is your estimated 

20          cost for serving a student from your 

21          program?

22                 MS. DONOHUE:  It tends to be about 

23          $1,250 from the first day we meet them in a 

24          community center until we get them to the 


 1          end of their freshman year.  And about $350 

 2          for each year after that.

 3                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  And how many of 

 4          your students get beyond Year 1 with you?

 5                 MS. DONOHUE:  What I can tell you is 

 6          we've put 5,800 in the pipeline.  Most of 

 7          them are still in there; 1100 have come out 

 8          the other end and are graduates already.  

 9                 There's about 30 percent that 

10          stop-out.  But because we have the jobs 

11          program, what we find is when they stop-out 

12          it's not usually about the academics, it's 

13          because of life -- on life's terms.  

14          Somebody in the family loses a job or gets 

15          sick or has a baby.  

16                 But because we have the jobs 

17          portion, we're able to get them into like 

18          certificate programs for like 

19          manufacturing, which is all about 

20          computers, where you can make $16 an hour.  

21          Or we can get them into a CNA program where 

22          within a year -- the nursing home has 

23          teachers on campus for them to get their 

24          LPN.  Because we continue on with them, we 


 1          can find other ways for them to get a 

 2          family-supporting job.

 3                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

 4          much for your work.

 5                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.  

 6                 MS. DONOHUE:  Thank you so much. 

 7                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Questions?  Any 

 8          further?  

 9                 Thank you very much.  

10                 MS. DONOHUE:  Thank you very much.  

11          We appreciate it.

12                 MR. ROWSER:  Thank you.

13                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Wanda Williams, 

14          DC 37, director of legislation.  

15                 MS. WILLIAMS:  Good evening.

16                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Good evening.

17                 MS. WILLIAMS:  My name is Wanda 

18          Williams.  I am testifying on behalf of my 

19          executive director, who unfortunately, with 

20          the time, had to head back to the city -- 

21          Henry Garrido, executive director of DC 37.  

22                 You have our testimony, and so I 

23          won't spend very much time elaborating on 

24          its contents but wanted to highlight a 


 1          couple of things.  

 2                 First and foremost, I wanted to 

 3          thank the chairmen and the members of the 

 4          committee for your stamina, most of all, 

 5          being here at this late hour.  

 6          Appreciate -- I've been here all day with 

 7          you, and most of you have been here for 

 8          that time, so I want to say thank you.

 9                 I also want to say that as it 

10          relates to the Governor's proposal to shift 

11          the cost of the state's share of funding 

12          for the CUNY system, we are opposed to 

13          that.  We believe that the state should 

14          keep its commitment.  We also think that 

15          there should be a delinkage as it relates 

16          to tying the collective bargaining 

17          agreement to that.

18                 You heard CUNY's fiscal person talk 

19          about 300 being the number to settle those 

20          contracts.  You heard from PSC, their 240 

21          is last year's number for them.  Our number 

22          as DC 37 is 149, so we think it's over 

23          that, given their lag of one year, and we 

24          think that that should be segregated out 


 1          and monies appropriated not conditional on 

 2          receiving those dollars.

 3                 Also -- that was mentioned earlier 

 4          today by some -- the Fight for 15 exclusion 

 5          for CUNY employees.  We represent 122,000 

 6          members, 10,000 of which are in CUNY, 7,000 

 7          of whom don't make $15 an hour.  And so it 

 8          is important for our members -- who are 

 9          college assistants, office assistants, 

10          custodial aides, accountants, architects 

11          and engineers, asbestos handlers, data 

12          processing personnel, and supervisors and 

13          engineers -- it's important for them, many 

14          of whom are single females, heads of 

15          household.  You heard $30,000 on average 

16          for a family.  Even as union households, 

17          some of these people are working part-time 

18          and make less than that in terms of their 

19          median income, 17 to 23.  

20                 So we think it's important that they 

21          be included.  It included SUNY, and I think 

22          you mentioned, Senator, being a stepchild.  

23          We feel the same, and we think that we 

24          should all be treated the same.  And we ask 


 1          if SUNY is getting the 15, we should get 

 2          the same.

 3                 Maintenance of effort, the bill that 

 4          was vetoed last year, the Governor 

 5          mentioned that he wanted to deal with that 

 6          issue in the budget.  We advocate that, and 

 7          we think that the time is now.  And we ask 

 8          each the Senate and the Assembly to put 

 9          that in their one-house bill.  It would be 

10          nice if we could get in a 21-day amendment, 

11          but we leave that to you.  And we're 

12          hopeful that our commitment together will 

13          get us where we need to be.

14                 Lastly, I just wanted to mention the 

15          five-year tuition increase that ends this 

16          year.  We think that that should be it for 

17          a while.  And we don't think that we should  

18          extend it, as the Governor has said he 

19          wanted to do.  We don't think that that 

20          should happen.

21                 And so with that, I'll end my 

22          testimony.  If there's any questions, I'm 

23          willing to take them.  And thank you very 

24          much.


 1                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.  

 2                 Questions?

 3                 SENATOR KRUEGER:  Thank you for the 

 4          testimony.

 5                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you, as 

 6          always.

 7                 MS. WILLIAMS:  No problem.  Thank 

 8          all of you.  Appreciate it.

 9                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  SUNY Student 

10          Assembly:  Thomas Mastro, president; 

11          Melissa Kathan, vice president; Nicholas 

12          Simons, director, legislative affairs; Marc 

13          Cohen, chief of staff.

14                 All five of you in three minutes?

15                 MR. MASTRO:  Good evening.  My name 

16          is Tom Mastro, and I'm a senior at 

17          Binghamton University studying human 

18          development and education.  I have the 

19          distinct pleasure of serving as the 

20          president of the Student Assembly and as 

21          student trustee for the SUNY Board.  

22                 Along with my colleagues today, we 

23          will talk about five key issues which have 

24          a significant impact on students across our 


 1          system:  The absolute need for a fair, 

 2          equitable, and predictable tuition plan; an 

 3          increase in base aid for community 

 4          colleges; more attention paid to disability 

 5          accommodations; an increase in funding for 

 6          childcare centers; and the reinstatement of 

 7          tuition assistance for graduate students.  

 8                 As you heard this morning from 

 9          Chancellor Zimpher and myself, a renewal of 

10          NYSUNY 2020 is absolutely vital.  We need 

11          to ensure that our students can plan ahead 

12          with their families.  We need to ensure 

13          that their tuition dollars are staying on 

14          their respective campuses.  We need to 

15          ensure that tuition is not consistently 

16          raised to the maximum threshold.  And we 

17          need to ensure that students are consulted 

18          on tuition decisions.  

19                 Perhaps most significantly, we need 

20          to ensure that the state is paying its fair 

21          share, such that the burden of higher 

22          education does not fall solely on the 

23          shoulders of students.  

24                 Since the enactment of NYSUNY 2020, 


 1          SUNY campuses have been able to hire 

 2          919 new faculty members and approve over 

 3          350 new academic programs.  It is because 

 4          of this incredible advancements that the 

 5          students voted 59-4-1 in favor of renewing 

 6          NYSUNY 2020.

 7                 I yield now to Nicholas Simons, our 

 8          director of legislative affairs, to discuss 

 9          the importance of increased funding for our 

10          childcare centers throughout the state.  

11                 MR. SIMONS:  Thank you, President 

12          Mastro.  

13                 Good evening, everyone.  My name is 

14          Nicholas Simons, and I am a junior at the 

15          University at Albany and I study American 

16          politics and Spanish.  

17                 I would like to begin by saying that 

18          on-campus childcare and the funding of such 

19          services could be the most important issue 

20          to a single parent who's attending one of 

21          our SUNY campuses. 

22                 One of the most significant issues 

23          facing our nontraditional students is the 

24          inadequacies surrounding that childcare 


 1          funding.  And these SUNY childcare centers 

 2          provide not only an important resource for 

 3          our students, faculty, staff, and members 

 4          of the community, they also give our 

 5          students applied-learning experiences.  

 6                 One quarter of undergraduates in the 

 7          SUNY system are raising children, and of 

 8          those, 43 percent are single mothers and 

 9          11 percent are single fathers.  This 

10          growing demographic of parents exemplifies 

11          the diversity in our system.  And with the 

12          Governor cutting community college 

13          childcare again this year, to the tune of 

14          $1.1 million, the Legislature needs to not 

15          only reinstate these funds but transcend 

16          them as well.  

17                 With 28 centers at community 

18          colleges and 22 centers at state-operated 

19          campuses, SUNY has done the work to 

20          accommodate these nontraditional students. 

21          And we ask that the Legislature follow suit 

22          and show these parents that the issue is 

23          important to the state as well.  These 

24          students who take time to go back to school 


 1          deserve a well-funded and well-staffed 

 2          location to leave their children while they 

 3          work to better themselves and provide for 

 4          their family.  

 5                 The state would be doing a great 

 6          disservice to our colleagues if they did 

 7          not seriously examine the restoration and 

 8          the reinvigoration of these underfunded 

 9          institutions.  I myself attended daycare at 

10          Broome Community College in my infancy, and 

11          my sister attended daycare at Binghamton 

12          University.  Our parents, both SUNY 

13          students and members of the community, 

14          utilized these institutions' services.  

15                 As I stated, this could be the 

16          make-or-break issue for some parents who 

17          are debating whether or not to go back to 

18          school.  And with that, the Legislature 

19          should recognize the importance of this 

20          issue to our students.  

21                 And I'll yield to our vice 

22          president, Melissa Kathan from the 

23          University of Buffalo.

24                 MS. KATHAN:  Thank you, Nicholas.  


 1          Good evening.

 2                 As stated, my name is Melissa 

 3          Kathan, and I am studying political science 

 4          and management at the University of 

 5          Buffalo.  

 6                 Newly accepted to SUNY Buffalo Law 

 7          School, I would have appreciated the 

 8          opportunity to apply for tuition assistance 

 9          as a graduate student.  Unfortunately, as 

10          Assemblywoman Malliotakis pointed out this 

11          morning, the program has been inactive 

12          since 2010. 

13                 Graduate students are often 

14          overlooked, but we are making as strong an 

15          effort as possible to ensure that their 

16          voices are heard.  Our nearly 41,000 

17          graduate students should have the same 

18          access to aid that any student pursuing his 

19          or her education has, whether they be 

20          undergraduate or graduate.  

21                 During the life of graduate TAP, 

22          7,000 SUNY students took advantage of this 

23          program. Restoring the Tuition Assistance 

24          Program for graduate students will 


 1          incentivize more students to pursue a 

 2          graduate degree and mitigate the burdens of 

 3          debt.  

 4                 Speaking of underrepresented student 

 5          populations, we recognize the gravity of 

 6          disability accommodations.  A studentís 

 7          opportunity to obtain an education must not 

 8          be impeded by a campus's physical or 

 9          structural insufficiencies.  There are 

10          currently 23,000 students with disabilities 

11          enrolled across the SUNY system -- 

12          6.2 percent of community college students, 

13          and 4.4 of state-operated students -- and 

14          these numbers are increasing annually.  

15                 Our students with physical 

16          disabilities, invisible disabilities, and 

17          learning disabilities should have the 

18          resources they need on campus to ensure 

19          their success.  Burdandi, a Fredonia 

20          student and advocate for students with 

21          disabilities, is able to seamlessly pursue 

22          her education at Fredonia because the 

23          school has accommodated her needs regarding 

24          accessible dorms, accessible classrooms, 


 1          and snow removal, among others.  

 2                 This should be the norm on all 

 3          campuses, and we hope that the Legislature 

 4          will partner with SUNY in bringing 

 5          additional resources to bear in support of 

 6          this movement.

 7                 I now yield to the Student 

 8          Assemblyís Chief of Staff Marc Cohen, from 

 9          the University at Albany.

10                 MR. COHEN:  Thank you, Vice 

11          President Kathan, and good evening.  My 

12          name is Marc Cohen, and I am a senior in 

13          the BA/MPA program at UAlbany's Rockefeller 

14          College studying higher education policy 

15          and policy analytics.

16                 An issue which both we and SUNY 

17          administration have discussed here in the 

18          past is that of community college base aid. 

19          Be it a nontraditional student looking to 

20          continue their education or a new high 

21          school graduate looking to ease into the 

22          transition to college, community colleges 

23          provide endless opportunities for our 

24          students from all walks of life.  


 1                 It is also important to realize the 

 2          significant economic impact community 

 3          colleges have on surrounding counties.  A 

 4          recent NYCCAP study shows that community 

 5          colleges contribute nearly $15 billion a 

 6          year to their communities.  For all the 

 7          good that our community colleges do, all of 

 8          the ways the students contribute back to 

 9          their communities, they are grossly 

10          underfunded. 

11                 The most updated information has 

12          only one of our 30 community colleges being 

13          funded at 33 percent.  While the law holds 

14          that the state contributes up to 

15          40 percent, the average contribution is far 

16          less.  The proposal in the Executive Budget 

17          of a flat Base Operating Aid per FTE of 

18          $2,597 would mean a year-to-year decrease 

19          in direct state tax support of nearly 

20          $21 million.

21                 Attending community colleges is 

22          becoming increasingly difficult for our 

23          students.  The past budgets that have 

24          allocated $75 or $100 in raises have still 


 1          left schools with deficit funding.  This 

 2          applies to most of the community colleges 

 3          in our system.  The days of students paying 

 4          upwards of 40 percent cannot continue. 

 5                 Restoring sufficient funding to all 

 6          campuses is not something we expect to be 

 7          achieve in just one session.  However, this 

 8          year needs to be the beginning of a new 

 9          trend toward less of a burden on our 

10          students.

11                 Thank you.  

12                 MR. MASTRO:  We thank you for your 

13          time and attention this evening.  

14                 At this time we would look forward 

15          to answering your questions about these 

16          issues and others affecting the students of 

17          SUNY.

18                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.  

19                 Questions?

20                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Just a comment.

21                 I actually started out -- my first 

22          elected position was that I served in the 

23          Student Assembly at SUNY Fredonia.  So 

24          it's really great to see the students 


 1          here today.  

 2                 And I think the fact that you ran 

 3          for student government says a lot about 

 4          you as individuals, about future 

 5          leaders.  You were very well-prepared 

 6          today,  you were very articulate, very 

 7          well-spoken and thorough.  And so we 

 8          appreciate that you took the time.  

 9                 And I would just say to you, keep 

10          up the great work and I know that you'll 

11          be successful when you begin your 

12          careers.  We're very, very proud of you.

13                 MR. MASTRO:  Thank you.  

14                 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG:  Thank you.

15                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  Thank you.  

16                 Now, to close, CUNY Student Senate, 

17          the vice chair of legislative affairs -- 

18          I'm not even trying to pronounce his name.  

19          I can't do it.

20                 Well, are we there?  I think we have 

21          it.  By George, I think it's over.  Did we 

22          get their paper?  

23                 UNIDENTIFIED STAFF:  No, that's it.

24                 CHAIRMAN FARRELL:  We never got 


 1          their paper?  

 2                 Thank you very much.  We will 

 3          adjourn until tomorrow at 9:30, to finish 

 4          it all.

 5                 (Whereupon, the budget hearing 

 6          concluded at 7:11 p.m.)